From healyzh at aracnet.com Sun Feb 1 00:22:41 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:00 2005 Subject: OT: ebay search question, excluding sellers Message-ID: Is there a way to perform an eBay search that excludes specific sellers? My wife and I collect Neo Geo MVS carts and are getting really tired of seeing all the auctions belonging to a seller that is a bootleg selling crook. Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From healyzh at aracnet.com Sun Feb 1 01:00:16 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:03 2005 Subject: Never mind - OT: ebay search question, excluding sellers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >Is there a way to perform an eBay search that excludes specific sellers? My wife and I collect Neo Geo MVS carts and are getting really tired of seeing all the auctions belonging to a seller that is a bootleg selling crook. Never mind, I found it in the bottom of advanced search, search by seller. Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From geoffr at zipcon.net Sun Feb 1 01:44:18 2004 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:03 2005 Subject: OT: ebay search question, excluding sellers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20040131234356.02bbaec0@mail.zipcon.net> none that I know of, but if he's selling bootleg, report him... At 10:22 PM 1/31/2004, you wrote: >Is there a way to perform an eBay search that excludes specific >sellers? My wife and I collect Neo Geo MVS carts and are getting really >tired of seeing all the auctions belonging to a seller that is a bootleg >selling crook. > > Zane > >-- >-- >| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | >| healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | >| | Classic Computer Collector | >+----------------------------------+----------------------------+ >| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | >| PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | >| http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun Feb 1 04:17:46 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:03 2005 Subject: Vhmrrxutkvbziepg (MyDoom/Novarg) In-Reply-To: chris "Re: Vhmrrxutkvbziepg" (Jan 31, 18:36) References: Message-ID: <10402011017.ZM27581@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Jan 31, 18:36, chris wrote: > >The message contains Unicode characters and has been sent as a binary > >attachment. > > Despite allegedly coming from me, I was not the sender of the above > email. I assure you none of my Macs are infected with this Windows worm. > :-) > > Someone else with my addy on their machine has been infected. IP in the > header traces back to RIPE Networks in Amsterdam. > > Fortunately, it appears the list strips attachments, so the email is > nothing more harmful then a minor annoyance to the list. Yes, this is standard MyDoom/Novarg. It spoofs the sender in the "From:" and for good measure uses their hostname in the SMTP exchange when it contacts the destination. Then it adds a zipfile which contains the payload. The list does strip attachments -- you can't send attachments to this list, nor HTML. Incidentally, Sellam: just not using OE isn't a cure. It might reduce the problem, but enough people will save and then open attachments anyway; besides, there are other ways of passing a virus or worm. I've seen a few of these at work last week. I blackholed about ten machines. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From waltje at pdp11.nl Sun Feb 1 05:27:49 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:03 2005 Subject: DECnet/E and DECnet-Plus In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 31 Jan 2004, Zane H. Healy wrote: > >What I did notice is that DEQNA's (and DELQA's) quite often drop packets > >as soon as traffic gets heavier on the network. I tested this at the > >raw-iron level (my own bare-metal test code) so that is not an OS- > >driver issue. Under E11, I did not see this weirdness happen, so it > >is a real-hardware thing. > > Have you ever gotten DECnet/E running on E11? Has anyone? I forget where it dies, but IIRC, it gets as far as the reboot after the install, then it can no longer find the ethernet adapter. Well, to quote Eric Cartman: "I would if I could, you..." .. I dont have anything for RSTS other than RSTS itself, *and* have a serious lack in knowledge of the system :) Learning RSX and RSTS is high on my todo-list. But, if you give me directions, and a copy of dnet/e, I can always try it on my hardware and emu's... --f From waltje at pdp11.nl Sun Feb 1 05:33:38 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:03 2005 Subject: Bad Newz Message-ID: All, Hmm. This new year seems to have ha a bad start for me... the disks on the pdp11.nl server are fried. I have *no* idea what caused this, other than heat (in an airco-controlled room???), but it is a fact. I have ordered new disks (under warranty, fortunately) and *do* have a backup on DLT, so most of the stuff is still "around". It will take me about a week or so for things to get back up... Cheerz, Fred (back in Holland, just so y'all know) -- Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist Visit the VAXlab Project at http://VAXlab.pdp11.nl/ Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Mountain View, CA, USA From waltje at pdp11.nl Sun Feb 1 05:36:34 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:03 2005 Subject: New Finds: DEC OSF/1 {MIPS,Alpha} Message-ID: All, Kudos to the folks at DEC, er, Compaq, err, HP, we have saved several quite-old versions of the OSF/1 system.. I have OSF/1 V2.0, 2.0B, 2.1, 3.0, 3.0B and 3.2 all saved, and more to come. Yay! Fred -- Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist Visit the VAXlab Project at http://VAXlab.pdp11.nl/ Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Mountain View, CA, USA From dan_williams at ntlworld.com Sun Feb 1 05:54:13 2004 From: dan_williams at ntlworld.com (Dan Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:03 2005 Subject: Vhmrrxutkvbziepg In-Reply-To: <1075590145.25176.4.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <200401312248.i0VMmUOD003553@huey.classiccmp.org> <401C2EE5.90306@ntlworld.com> <1075590145.25176.4.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <401CE8E5.8040700@ntlworld.com> Jules Richardson wrote: >On Sat, 2004-01-31 at 22:40, Dan Williams wrote: > > >>cb@mythtech.net wrote: >> >> >> >>>The message contains Unicode characters and has been sent as a binary attachment. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>That's a new one on me. >> >>Dan >> >> > >I think that's how the MyDoom virus normally turns up, although the >copies I've received normally have a more meaningful subject and text to >trick idiots into launching the attached executable "text file". > >First time I've seen an attempted virus post to the list if that's what >it was though... > >I didn't think the list would let anything through with an attachment >though. I guess the message headers are a little screwy though; >Evolution's inbox pane thinks there's an attachment, but the message >view pane doesn't... > >cheers > >Jules > > > That makes more sense, the nice mr. Norton must of taken it away., the email address I am using at the moment is only used for this group and the rescue list and I have started getting a lot of updates from "microsoft", invites to blind dates recently. Dan From dan_williams at ntlworld.com Sun Feb 1 06:01:09 2004 From: dan_williams at ntlworld.com (Dan Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:03 2005 Subject: how do I connect a BBC micro to a VGA monitor? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <401CEA85.1080504@ntlworld.com> Tony Duell wrote: >>I would like to connect the RGB TTL output of a BBC micro to >>a VGA monitor, does anybody have any pointers - suggestions? >> >> > >It's very difficult... > >The trivial problem is that he RGB socket on a Beeb is TTL level digital, >the VGA input is analogue. Trivial, because there's only 1 bit per colour >on the Beeb anyway, so a resistor network will convert the voltage levels. > >The difficult problem is that the scan rates are totally different (VGA >is 31kHz horizontal, the Beeb is 15.625kHz). If you have a multisync >monitor that will go down to 15kHz (some of the old ones will), then >there's no problem, otherwise you've got a lot of work either modifying >the monitor or making a standards converter. > >Probably the easiest solution if you're not a video expert is to use a PC >with a TV input card. You could at least feed the Beeb's composite output >into such a card (do any such cards exist with RGB inputs?) > >-tony > > > wasn't there a hack on the mainboard to convert the composite to colour Dan From dr.ido at bigpond.net.au Sun Feb 1 07:15:13 2004 From: dr.ido at bigpond.net.au (Dr. Ido) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:03 2005 Subject: how do I connect a BBC micro to a VGA monitor? In-Reply-To: <401CEA85.1080504@ntlworld.com> References: Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20040201231513.00fc946c@pop-server> At 12:01 PM 2/1/04 +0000, you wrote: >Tony Duell wrote: > >>>I would like to connect the RGB TTL output of a BBC micro to >>>a VGA monitor, does anybody have any pointers - suggestions? >>> >>> >> >>It's very difficult... >> >>The trivial problem is that he RGB socket on a Beeb is TTL level digital, >>the VGA input is analogue. Trivial, because there's only 1 bit per colour >>on the Beeb anyway, so a resistor network will convert the voltage levels. >> >>The difficult problem is that the scan rates are totally different (VGA >>is 31kHz horizontal, the Beeb is 15.625kHz). If you have a multisync >>monitor that will go down to 15kHz (some of the old ones will), then >>there's no problem, otherwise you've got a lot of work either modifying >>the monitor or making a standards converter. >> >>Probably the easiest solution if you're not a video expert is to use a PC >>with a TV input card. You could at least feed the Beeb's composite output >>into such a card (do any such cards exist with RGB inputs?) The alternative is to use a scandoubler such as a Micomsoft XRGB 1, 2, or 2+. These upscan composite video, S-video (NTSC only) and analog RGB to VGA. They aren't cheap, (I paid US$200 for my XRGB2) but the quality is far better than any of the cheap video to VGA boxes I've tried. I use mine with various game consoles and home computers. As a side note, any suggestions on how to convert CGA to analog RGB so I can run my Tandy 1000 through it? From paul at frixxon.co.uk Sun Feb 1 06:30:42 2004 From: paul at frixxon.co.uk (Paul Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:03 2005 Subject: Bad Newz In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <401CF172.4000906@frixxon.co.uk> Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > the disks on the pdp11.nl server are fried. > I have ordered new disks (under warranty, fortunately) and *do* have > a backup on DLT, so most of the stuff is still "around". It will > take me about a week or so for things to get back up... I have 4.7 GiB of documents from pdp11.nl listed in Manx, copied between 2003-10-26 and 2003-11-06, so when you restore the backups I will send you anything that is missing (PDFs only, that is -- I don't have a copy of the web pages). -- Paul From rcini at optonline.net Sun Feb 1 07:19:59 2004 From: rcini at optonline.net (Richard A. Cini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:03 2005 Subject: Some things for sale - update In-Reply-To: <12c.3ab88216.2d4d4520@aol.com> Message-ID: <003001c3e8c6$181d7c20$8201a8c0@bbrdhveies50vd> David: I dook a look at the list. I have both of those BYTEs. I might be interested in the Interface Age and Kilobaud magazines but it would be only to save them from going into the dumpster -- those are series that I don't really collect. Rich Rich Cini Collector of classic computers Build Master for the Altair32 Emulation Project Web site: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ /************************************************************/ -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of MTPro@aol.com Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2004 12:51 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Some things for sale - update Hello, with everyone's patience, I would just like to offer that I now have a list of mags for sell, please e-mail for list. Also, here is more detailed info in order to sell the following: Generic, non-front-panel S-100 system with cool smoked plexiglass cover/case Dual 8" disk drives in chassis ADM5 terminal Please see: http://members.aol.com/mtpro/s100.html Also: Amiga 1000, monitor, external disk drive - complete system IBM Convertible with printer in IBM carrying case, disks, manual, works but screen does not display properly now Osborne 1, slightly newer OCC1 model with blue face front and keyboard top, looks great, excellent display, but can't get it to boot, all "boot errors." Drive needs cleaning, adjustment, replacement? Or are my boot disks just bad? Amstrad PPC640, seems to work, ready to boot, no disk, plus contrast does not work and hinge needs repair on display Most excellent Apple /// complete system with booting Apple Profile hard drive! I am motivated to sell, will definitely sell for less than eBay prices, but I'm not giving things away for next to nothing. Please offer reasonable offers. Thank you, David Greelish From ghldbrd at ccp.com Sun Feb 1 08:29:58 2004 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (ghldbrd@ccp.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:03 2005 Subject: OT: ebay search question, excluding sellers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4613.65.123.179.136.1075645798.squirrel@webmail.ccp.com> > Is there a way to perform an eBay search that excludes specific sellers? > My wife and I collect Neo Geo MVS carts and are getting really tired of > seeing all the auctions belonging to a seller that is a bootleg selling > crook. > > Zane I don't think you can with the advanced search thing. I'd probably pitch a bitch with E-pay over this seller. I won't guarantee any results though, but maybe others have the same complaint. Remember dollars speak volumes over words. Washington DC knows that bromide well. Gary Hildebrand St. Joseph, MO From lbickley at bickleywest.com Sun Feb 1 08:45:39 2004 From: lbickley at bickleywest.com (Lyle Bickley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:03 2005 Subject: New Finds: DEC OSF/1 {MIPS,Alpha} In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200402010645.39727.lbickley@bickleywest.com> Very cool, indeed! Looking forward to checking 'em out. Did they give you/us free license for hobby purposes? Lyle On Sunday 01 February 2004 03:36, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > All, > > Kudos to the folks at DEC, er, Compaq, err, HP, we have saved several > quite-old versions of the OSF/1 system.. I have OSF/1 V2.0, 2.0B, 2.1, > 3.0, 3.0B and 3.2 all saved, and more to come. > > Yay! > > Fred -- Lyle Bickley Bickley Consulting West Inc. http://bickleywest.com "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero" From fernande at internet1.net Sun Feb 1 09:16:46 2004 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:03 2005 Subject: OT: ebay search question, excluding sellers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <401D185E.9010806@internet1.net> Zane, Look or something unique about his auctions. When doimg your search type Neo Geo -xxxx. The xxxx being whatever unique you found about the sellers auction. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Zane H. Healy wrote: > Is there a way to perform an eBay search that excludes specific sellers? My wife and I collect Neo Geo MVS carts and are getting really tired of seeing all the auctions belonging to a seller that is a bootleg selling crook. > > Zane From vcf at siconic.com Sun Feb 1 11:25:05 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:03 2005 Subject: OT: ebay search question, excluding sellers In-Reply-To: <6.0.1.1.2.20040131234356.02bbaec0@mail.zipcon.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 31 Jan 2004, Geoff Reed wrote: > none that I know of, but if he's selling bootleg, report him... Oh yeah, eBay will jump right on that! (Hint: sarcasm ;) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Sun Feb 1 11:25:51 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:03 2005 Subject: Vhmrrxutkvbziepg (MyDoom/Novarg) In-Reply-To: <10402011017.ZM27581@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 1 Feb 2004, Pete Turnbull wrote: > Incidentally, Sellam: just not using OE isn't a cure. It might reduce I know, but it's a good start ;) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun Feb 1 11:19:58 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:03 2005 Subject: how do I connect a BBC micro to a VGA monitor? In-Reply-To: Dan Williams "Re: how do I connect a BBC micro to a VGA monitor?" (Feb 1, 12:01) References: <401CEA85.1080504@ntlworld.com> Message-ID: <10402011719.ZM27821@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Feb 1, 12:01, Dan Williams wrote: > >Probably the easiest solution if you're not a video expert is to use a PC > >with a TV input card. You could at least feed the Beeb's composite output > >into such a card (do any such cards exist with RGB inputs?) > wasn't there a hack on the mainboard to convert the composite to colour It's not a hack, it's a jumper on S39 on later Beebs (or add a small capacitor on early ones, which I admit is a hack, even if "official"). You don't need that for the UHF output, though, only for the composite video on the BNC socket. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From jack.rubin at ameritech.net Sun Feb 1 11:32:23 2004 From: jack.rubin at ameritech.net (Jack Rubin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:03 2005 Subject: BRUCE LANE / BLUEFEATHERS TECH - please contact me Message-ID: <000801c3e8e9$5a9e8cb0$1f6fa8c0@eths.k12.il.us> Bruce, I've attempted to email you at your public address and your backup (.qsl) address with no success - apparently you have an anti-yahoo filter in place. Please email me directly. Thanks. Jack Rubin jack.rubin@ameritech.net From esharpe at cox.net Sun Feb 1 10:30:00 2004 From: esharpe at cox.net (ed sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:03 2005 Subject: quicktime of the old 20 year old mac 1984 orwellian ad.... this is cool! there is also some good mac Message-ID: <001501c3e8e0$a3888f60$25696e44@SONYDIGITALED> view the QuickTime of the old 20 year old Mac 1984 Orwellian ad.... this is cool! there is also some good Mac interviews also on this npr web site http://www.npr.org/display_pages/features/feature_1627800.html Thanks Ed Sharpe archivist for SMECC Please check our web site at http://www.smecc.org to see other engineering fields, communications and computation stuff we buy, and by all means when in Arizona drop in and see us. address: coury house / smecc 5802 w palmaire ave glendale az 85301 From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Feb 1 11:33:23 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:03 2005 Subject: how do I connect a BBC micro to a VGA monitor? In-Reply-To: <401CEA85.1080504@ntlworld.com> from "Dan Williams" at Feb 1, 4 12:01:09 pm Message-ID: > >Probably the easiest solution if you're not a video expert is to use a PC > >with a TV input card. You could at least feed the Beeb's composite output > >into such a card (do any such cards exist with RGB inputs?) > > > >-tony > > > > > > > wasn't there a hack on the mainboard to convert the composite to colour Yes. On msot Beebs, it's just a matter of fitting the right jumper. On the ACW (which has a Beeb B+ as the I/O processor), you have to fit 4 chips and a handful of components to add the PAL encoder circuitry. However, the PAL subcarrier may well cause artefacts with 80 column text. I'd prefer to use an RGB connection if possible. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Feb 1 11:37:16 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:03 2005 Subject: how do I connect a BBC micro to a VGA monitor? In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.20040201231513.00fc946c@pop-server> from "Dr. Ido" at Feb 1, 4 11:15:13 pm Message-ID: > As a side note, any suggestions on how to convert CGA to analog RGB so I > can run my Tandy 1000 through it? Well, what you need to do is use some buffers and resistors to combine the RGBI digital signals into 3 analogue signals (look at the schematics of a CGA monitor for detials). If you don't mind just having 8 colours, you can ignore the I signal, and just use potential dividers to reduce the TTL signals to the 1V analogue levels (a quick-n-dirty solution if the analogue inputs are terminated with 75 ohms, as they should be, is just to put a 300 ohm resistor in series with each of the 3 digital signals). Then you have to sort out the syncs. Typically you need to Xor the 2 syncs on the CGA connector to get a composite sync. Then maybe invert that. Maybe bring that down to 1V levels with a 300 ohm series resistor. -tony From healyzh at aracnet.com Sun Feb 1 11:58:19 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:03 2005 Subject: OT: ebay search question, excluding sellers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >On Sat, 31 Jan 2004, Geoff Reed wrote: > >> none that I know of, but if he's selling bootleg, report him... > >Oh yeah, eBay will jump right on that! > >(Hint: sarcasm ;) What gets me is that SNK/Playmore haven't gone after this guy and his mother (he's had several accounts shut down, but keeps selling under his mothers). I really wish eBay was better about doing something about these illegal auctions. Granted in the case of this guy there is no obvious evidence he's a crook, but it's well known in the Neo Geo community. What I'd like to know is how he keeps from getting negative feedback. I do know he sets the auctions up so that the bidders names are hidden, I assume this is so people can't warn the bidders he's a crook. I've reported people selling Neo Geo MAME ROMs to eBay before, but they don't ever do anything about it :^( On a positive note, I just got my wife a brand new Metal Slug 4 cart, purchased from a *HIGHLY* reputable dealer :^) Though not from eBay. Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From marvin at rain.org Sun Feb 1 12:24:35 2004 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:03 2005 Subject: OT: ebay search question, excluding sellers References: Message-ID: <401D4463.A9EBC222@rain.org> "Zane H. Healy" wrote: > > I've reported people selling Neo Geo MAME ROMs to eBay before, but they don't ever do anything about it :^( If they are bootleg ROMs, someone has the copyright to them; have them shut down the auctions under the (somewhat stupid) VERO program. From dave at mitton.com Sun Feb 1 13:29:26 2004 From: dave at mitton.com (Dave Mitton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:03 2005 Subject: new find: Sun Ultra 10 - NVRAM and Boot In-Reply-To: <200401311651.i0VGpUOI099831@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.2.20040201141552.03c32cd0@getmail.mitton.com> well this thread has wandered and fragmented before I saw it. I have a Sun Ultra 5 running in my basement. It took me a little bit of work to keep it running. One problem with these platforms is that they have a battery powered NVRAM chip in them, that will give out after a several years. (Sort of like a PC's CMOS) If they die, the boot fails. Good news is that the replacement parts are available. Here's a FAQ http://www.squirrel.com/squirrel/sun-nvram-hostid.faq.html I got one from Digikey for about $20. A tip: I found if I left the system powered up for several days, that the NVRAM would charge up enough to boot ... sometimes. wrt: boot process - Scrounge around on the Sun website in the docs area, you need to find the detailed documentation on the boot process and commands. - There is a extended diagnostic mode that you can evoke with the right key combinations at power-up. - It will display running POST diagnostics while booting to the screen or a serial terminal. You can also get it to leave a failure code in the various lights on the keyboard. (get that keyboard hooked up!) You need the docs to decode the indication. Solaris 9 and Companion software CDs are availible from Sun for FREE on their website. There are also sunfreeware sites out there. Dave. On 1/31/2004 10:51 AM -0600, cctech-request@classiccmp.org wrote: >Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 20:20:07 -0500 >From: "Joe R." >Subject: Re: new find: Sun Ultra 10 >To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > >Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040130202007.00849530@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >At 06:14 PM 1/30/04 -0500, you wrote: > >> Subject: new find: Sun Ultra 10 > > > >> Found one of these today. Tried to boot it but it goes into terminal > >> mode because I don't have a keyboard attached. > > > >And won't boot as well? Odd. > > It probably is trying to boot but I don't have a keyboard attached so it >reports that there's no keyboard attached and that it will connect to a >terminal on COM 1. Then the screen blanks out. > > > > >> No idea of the amount of memory or CPU speed since I can't get to the > >> OS. > > > >Older Suns report their RAM config and at least some info about their > >CPU in the ROM-generated banner. If it has the "ok " prompt the older > >machines use, typing "banner" at it might do something useful. > > It never gets that far without the keyboard. I have a keyboard in >storage. I'll go get it tomorrow. > > Joe From kb3hag at comcast.net Sun Feb 1 12:43:10 2004 From: kb3hag at comcast.net (Gary Sparkes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:03 2005 Subject: Silent 700 Message-ID: <000801c3e8f3$3df43f60$6401a8c0@seto> I read in some mailing list posts that you have a few silent 700's. How many 765's do you have? do you have any schems/docs for it ? i have a 765 here that is somewhat broken, nothing out the coupler and non of the keys respond, the lights all light up in the right corner. Anything you can do to help would be nice From finnegpt at purdue.edu Sun Feb 1 14:51:21 2004 From: finnegpt at purdue.edu (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:03 2005 Subject: Ultrix on an 11/730? In-Reply-To: <200401302035.i0UKZHKI091013@io.crash.com> References: <200401302035.i0UKZHKI091013@io.crash.com> Message-ID: <200402011551.21367.finnegpt@purdue.edu> On Friday 30 January 2004 15:35, Steve Jones wrote: > Brad Parker wrote: > > Has anyone tried either of the tu58 "emulators"? I found one > > software tar and another hardware device. > > Here are the two items Brad referred to: > http://www.sparetimegizmos.com/Hardware/TU58_Emulator.htm > http://www.tuhs.org/Archive/PDP-11/Emulators/TU58/ You might wanna check out VTserver if you don't have a machine running with an old-enough copy of UNIX on it: ftp://minnie.tuhs.org/pub/PDP-11/Vtserver/ It works quite beautifully when I've tried using it. And, unlike the tu58 software emulator you mentioned, actually does compile on Linux (and thus probably Free/NetBSD and other modern UNIXes). Pat -- PLUG Vice President -- http://plug.purdue.org Slackware Linux -- http://slackware.com Purdue University Research Computing -- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs "sort of the opposite of rose-colored glasses... maybe looking through swamp gas.." -- Anonymous. From aw288 at osfn.org Sun Feb 1 16:25:20 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:03 2005 Subject: Big eBay bux for Comdyna hybrid In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > $1,400 bux, to be exact - which was the 'Buy-It-Now' price, that option > was exercised. > > Ahem. %^&$. I was just goin to put one on Ebay. I suppose I should wait now... William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From jpl15 at panix.com Sun Feb 1 19:10:53 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:03 2005 Subject: HP JetDirect card Message-ID: There was recently a thread about the JetDirect I/O cards for AitchPee stuff... I have dug one up whilst sorting thru multiple boxes of KAK looking for a small RF connector... anyway this is: JetDirect 600N Ethernet J3111A physical condition looks fine, otherwise unknown, free for the asking, ship via USPS priority mail. Cheers John From rdd at rddavis.org Sun Feb 1 19:27:12 2004 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:03 2005 Subject: HP JetDirect card In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040202012045.GG6776@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe John Lawson, from writings of Sun, Feb 01, 2004 at 08:10:53PM -0500: > stuff... I have dug one up whilst sorting thru multiple boxes of KAK > looking for a small RF connector... anyway this is: > > JetDirect 600N Ethernet J3111A > > physical condition looks fine, otherwise unknown, free for the asking, > ship via USPS priority mail. I'll take it if is still avialable! :-) -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From rdd at rddavis.org Sun Feb 1 19:35:30 2004 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:03 2005 Subject: HP JetDirect card In-Reply-To: <20040202012045.GG6776@rhiannon.rddavis.org> References: <20040202012045.GG6776@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <20040202012907.GJ6776@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe R. D. Davis, from writings of Sun, Feb 01, 2004 at 08:20:46PM -0500: > > looking for a small RF connector... anyway this is: What kind of RF connector are you looking for? -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From jpl15 at panix.com Sun Feb 1 19:52:16 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:03 2005 Subject: JetDirect card spoken for Message-ID: If your initials aren't 'MM' then I regret I had only one... ;} (Damn - shoulda put 'er on eBay...) [joke...] Thanks to all the other respondents... If I find more (unlikely) I'll go down the list, in the time-order recieved - you guys were about 5 minutes apart. Cheerz John From jpl15 at panix.com Sun Feb 1 19:55:36 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:03 2005 Subject: HP JetDirect card In-Reply-To: <20040202012907.GJ6776@rhiannon.rddavis.org> References: <20040202012045.GG6776@rhiannon.rddavis.org> <20040202012907.GJ6776@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: On Sun, 1 Feb 2004, R. D. Davis wrote: > Quothe R. D. Davis, from writings of Sun, Feb 01, 2004 at 08:20:46PM -0500: > > > looking for a small RF connector... anyway this is: > > What kind of RF connector are you looking for? A standard car-radio antenna connector - I found a little Uniden Bearcat scanner on the ground at the dump, of all places... brought it back, dusted it off, and it works fine... just wanted to use a 'real' connector instead of the hunk of wire I had stuck in the antenna jack on it... Thanks!! Cheers John From aek at spies.com Sun Feb 1 20:08:23 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:03 2005 Subject: list "Archival Options" Message-ID: <200402020208.i1228NV0018617@spies.com> Jay, would you please change "Set date in archive to when the mail is claimed to have been sent, or to the time we resend it?" to "When resent" on the "Archival Options" admin page. This will put the archive in temporal order when viewed "by date" From jwest at classiccmp.org Sun Feb 1 20:57:16 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:04 2005 Subject: list "Archival Options" References: <200402020208.i1228NV0018617@spies.com> Message-ID: <006701c3e938$44734030$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> yes ----- Original Message ----- From: "Al Kossow" To: Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2004 8:08 PM Subject: list "Archival Options" > > Jay, would you please change > "Set date in archive to when the mail is claimed to have been sent, or to the time we resend it?" > to "When resent" on the "Archival Options" admin page. > > This will put the archive in temporal order when viewed "by date" > > > From teoz at neo.rr.com Sun Feb 1 21:07:50 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:04 2005 Subject: Legal question on swapping gone bad Message-ID: <007401c3e939$bdfb5a40$0500fea9@game> I know a few people that got burned sending equipment to somebody and never receiving their money or swap items in return (not from this list). Anyway what can you do legally about something like this? The people are from different states and a few that got burnt were minors. Just trying to help them out since I believe over $1k was ripped off. I am sure you guys ran into this kind of thing before. From jpl15 at panix.com Sun Feb 1 21:28:17 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:04 2005 Subject: Legal question on swapping gone bad In-Reply-To: <007401c3e939$bdfb5a40$0500fea9@game> References: <007401c3e939$bdfb5a40$0500fea9@game> Message-ID: On Sun, 1 Feb 2004, Teo Zenios wrote: > I know a few people that got burned sending equipment to somebody and > never receiving their money or swap items in return (not from this > list). Anyway what can you do legally about something like this? The > people are from different states and a few that got burnt were minors. Depending on the state, and the mode of how the 'deal' was arranged... you can go to the USPS, the District Attorney in the state the 'thief' lives in, and/or the police/sheriff/law enforcement there. In the case of minors arranging deals - that is problematic, since most states have a "verbal contract" law, and of course this excludes persons incapable of entering into same. Now - take this for what it's worth. I've done an awful lot of online buying and selling, and have seen these cases many times. It's not a particularly good success rate, *especially* if the person on the other end is a rip-off artist or professional con. Sometimes, when folks are just slow, procrastinators, or get into bad situations - things can be worked out with a bit of firm 'prodding'... The only two times I have gotten 'bad' deals were on this List, BTW - one (long-ago) poster got me for $100 and disappeared, end of story. The other time, the individual had to be repeatedly threatened with legal action to get him to ship me my Stuff. In the first case, the individual apparently knew he was going to 'disappear' in advance, and got to several of us. In the latter case, the person had a business failure that caused them a lot of terrible headaches, and I was not on the "A" list during that time... I did finally get those items, though... happy ending. Generally 'feces occurs' once in a while. I"ve been luckier than some, I guess. I hope this helps. Cheers John From teoz at neo.rr.com Sun Feb 1 21:49:47 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:04 2005 Subject: Enlight case Message-ID: <00e401c3e93f$9a96a040$0500fea9@game> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3455777210&category=3669&sspagename=STRK%3AMEBWA%3AIT&rd=1 I didn't think people still buy AT cases, but this one (without power supply) went for $46.52 (I have this exact case in a p2-400 system for old games). Just pointing this out because even some common 486-Pentium PC era stuff has some value if it was of good quality. As time goes on cases get cheaper in quality, at least from what I have seen. From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Sun Feb 1 16:59:44 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:04 2005 Subject: Ultrix on an 11/730? In-Reply-To: <401962A7.8010909@jcwren.com> References: <0401291913.AA25770@ivan.Harhan.ORG> <401962A7.8010909@jcwren.com> Message-ID: <20040201225944.GB17628@bos7.spole.gov> On Thu, Jan 29, 2004 at 02:44:39PM -0500, J.C. Wren wrote: > > Wha? 'nyet' is Russian for 'no' last time I checked a dictionary. But in Russian, it's three letters... written like "net", *pronounced* like "nyet". -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 01-Feb-2004 22:50 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -29.7 F (-34.3 C) Windchill -59.3 F (-50.7 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 9 kts Grid 037 Barometer 691.7 mb (10187. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Sun Feb 1 17:16:32 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:04 2005 Subject: Kinda OT: Bandwidth on the island? (was Re: Estimated Price Of A "Classic" PDP-8?) In-Reply-To: References: <20040126130458.GA15945@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: <20040201231632.GA18329@bos7.spole.gov> On Mon, Jan 26, 2004 at 10:27:04AM -0800, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > Say, what sort of bandwidth (internet-wise) do you guys get down there > now? McMurdo has had a 1.5Mbps 24/7 line since Jan, 1995. It's permanently provisioned for both internet and traditional phones. IIRC, about 768Kbps is the size of the internet pipe. That's for ~1200 users. I think they get about 20 mail messages a minute plus surfing and ftp. At Pole, we use a network of obsolete satellites with a variety of speeds, but we don't have a traditional phone setup; we have VoIP. Our pipes run from 19.2K or so to 1.0Mbps and 1.5Mbps. It's 100% internet for ~240 users in the summer and < 100 users in the winter. So... things are better here at Pole, but we're only up about half the day. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 01-Feb-2004 23:10 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -28.4 F (-33.6 C) Windchill -60.1 F (-51.2 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 9.69 kts Grid 050 Barometer 691.7 mb (10187. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Sun Feb 1 16:55:22 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:04 2005 Subject: Ultrix on an 11/730? In-Reply-To: <200401291131.i0TBVAC27702@mwave.heeltoe.com> References: <200401291131.i0TBVAC27702@mwave.heeltoe.com> Message-ID: <20040201225522.GA17628@bos7.spole.gov> On Thu, Jan 29, 2004 at 06:31:10AM -0500, Brad Parker wrote: > > Can anyone tell me if there is a version of Ultrix which will boot on an > 11/730? I used to run Ultrix 1.1 on an 11/730 at work. Nothing funny... load and go. One tip: we had a problem when we put UUCP up on it and ran Net News on it after the great renaming. You'll need a modern newsgroups file. Max memory is 5MB. Dunno about newer versions than v1.1, but keep the memory size in mind. You should be able to stuff a UDA-50 or Emulex SMD controller on it, so disk size shouldn't be a problem. Which version do you have? The one that looks like a skinny 11/750 or the RL02/RB80 version with the CPU in the middle? I've never worked with the skinny-11/750 cab. I presume there's room in the CPU box for a couple of DD-11DKs, but that's merely an assumption. You would have to have external disk, though (but I suppose there's room in the cab for an RA70 or other smallish disk). -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 01-Feb-2004 22:50 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -29.7 F (-34.3 C) Windchill -59.3 F (-50.7 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 9 kts Grid 037 Barometer 691.7 mb (10187. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From jpero at sympatico.ca Sun Feb 1 17:10:06 2004 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:04 2005 Subject: Enlight case In-Reply-To: <00e401c3e93f$9a96a040$0500fea9@game> Message-ID: <20040202040836.LIRP23158.tomts10-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > I didn't think people still buy AT cases, but this one (without > power supply) went for $46.52 (I have this exact case in a p2-400 > system for old games). Just pointing this out because even some > common 486-Pentium PC era stuff has some value if it was of good > quality. As time goes on cases get cheaper in quality, at least from > what I have seen. > Somewhat correct, in that era of AT stuff (88 to 96) quality is all over the map and decent stuff is hard to find till online ordering got more plentiful around 97. That case with PSU (has to, was about 100 to 120 new back then). Warning: there were junk clones of those. Keep in mind, I've been there in that era and quickly discovered quality is requirement for generic peecees. Today, the decent cases with good quality still cost about the same still. The junkie cases still cost below 80. Cheers, Wizard From pat at computer-refuge.org Sun Feb 1 22:28:29 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:04 2005 Subject: OT: PeeCee cases (was Re: Enlight case) In-Reply-To: <20040202040836.LIRP23158.tomts10-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> References: <20040202040836.LIRP23158.tomts10-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: <200402012328.29012.pat@computer-refuge.org> On Sunday 01 February 2004 18:10, jpero@sympatico.ca wrote: > > I didn't think people still buy AT cases, but this one (without > > power supply) went for $46.52 (I have this exact case in a p2-400 > > system for old games). Just pointing this out because even some > > common 486-Pentium PC era stuff has some value if it was of good > > quality. As time goes on cases get cheaper in quality, at least > > from what I have seen. > > Somewhat correct, in that era of AT stuff (88 to 96) quality is all > over the map and decent stuff is hard to find till online ordering > got more plentiful around 97. > > That case with PSU (has to, was about 100 to 120 new back then). > Warning: there were junk clones of those. > > Keep in mind, I've been there in that era and quickly discovered > quality is requirement for generic peecees. > > Today, the decent cases with good quality still cost about the same > still. The junkie cases still cost below 80. I'd have to disagree. The case I've got on this machine is from 2000 or so, and cost a whopping $40. It's about the nicest cases I've ever worked with... including drive mounting "rails" that don't require the use of screws, and snap together front/side panels that also don't require a single screw to be turned. The only things screwed down are the CPU fan, power supply, motherboard and I/O cards... It's even a non-name brand case; the only trouble I've had with it is that it's not really designed for a full-sized ATX mobo and required me to abandon the bottom of the 3 "external" 5.25" drive bays in order to use this dual-proc Socket-A ASUS motherboard in it. :) It doesn't take a lot of money to get a good case - I'd just recommend you find one you like before you buy it. Of course, I haven't bought a case without a computer in it since I bought this one, either. Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ From ekklein at pacbell.net Sun Feb 1 22:28:27 2004 From: ekklein at pacbell.net (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:04 2005 Subject: This isn't even close to sane Message-ID: <0f2201c3e945$0167c920$947ba8c0@p933> Maybe it's just me, but eBay has been getting more and more crazy. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem &item=3583338499 Erik Klein www.vintage-computer.com www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum The Vintage Computer Forum From teoz at neo.rr.com Sun Feb 1 22:44:14 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:04 2005 Subject: This isn't even close to sane References: <0f2201c3e945$0167c920$947ba8c0@p933> Message-ID: <010101c3e947$358ae230$0500fea9@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Erik S. Klein" To: Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2004 11:28 PM Subject: This isn't even close to sane > Maybe it's just me, but eBay has been getting more and more crazy. > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem > > &item=3583338499 > > > > Erik Klein > I guess if your going to spenk a few $$$$ on the machine you might want the magazine that showed it on the cover. Somewhere somebody is going to mount the magazine on the wall behind his glass enclosed Altair 8800. I am not really surprised. People first spend allot for the hardware, then they go after original manuals, original software, and finally posters or magazines talking about the machine (the real hardcore go after schematics and training videos). The thing only started at $1 and had 19 bids so at least 2 people wanted it bad. From teoz at neo.rr.com Sun Feb 1 22:52:38 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:04 2005 Subject: Enlight case References: <20040202040836.LIRP23158.tomts10-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: <010801c3e948$61e7bc80$0500fea9@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2004 6:10 PM Subject: Re: Enlight case > > I didn't think people still buy AT cases, but this one (without > > power supply) went for $46.52 (I have this exact case in a p2-400 > > system for old games). Just pointing this out because even some > > common 486-Pentium PC era stuff has some value if it was of good > > quality. As time goes on cases get cheaper in quality, at least from > > what I have seen. > > > > Somewhat correct, in that era of AT stuff (88 to 96) quality is all > over the map and decent stuff is hard to find till online ordering > got more plentiful around 97. > > That case with PSU (has to, was about 100 to 120 new back then). > Warning: there were junk clones of those. > > Keep in mind, I've been there in that era and quickly discovered > quality is requirement for generic peecees. > > Today, the decent cases with good quality still cost about the same > still. The junkie cases still cost below 80. > > Cheers, > > Wizard > I still have 3 enlight cases of that era in use, you can stack a huge monitor on the desktop version without worrying about it caving in. I have 2 full tower Inwin Q500 atx cases that cost a little under $80 that are built like tanks with thick quality metal that fits together perfectly and a smaller midtower for $50 or so same quality. I don't mind a few screws to hold the side panels on. The cases under $30 are the crapiest I ever seen and wouldn't use one. From donm at cts.com Sun Feb 1 23:00:03 2004 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:04 2005 Subject: OT: PeeCee cases (was Re: Enlight case) In-Reply-To: <200402012328.29012.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: On Sun, 1 Feb 2004, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > On Sunday 01 February 2004 18:10, jpero@sympatico.ca wrote: > > > I didn't think people still buy AT cases, but this one (without > > > power supply) went for $46.52 (I have this exact case in a p2-400 > > > system for old games). Just pointing this out because even some > > > common 486-Pentium PC era stuff has some value if it was of good > > > quality. As time goes on cases get cheaper in quality, at least > > > from what I have seen. > > > > Somewhat correct, in that era of AT stuff (88 to 96) quality is all > > over the map and decent stuff is hard to find till online ordering > > got more plentiful around 97. > > > > That case with PSU (has to, was about 100 to 120 new back then). > > Warning: there were junk clones of those. > > > > Keep in mind, I've been there in that era and quickly discovered > > quality is requirement for generic peecees. > > > > Today, the decent cases with good quality still cost about the same > > still. The junkie cases still cost below 80. > > I'd have to disagree. The case I've got on this machine is from 2000 or > so, and cost a whopping $40. It's about the nicest cases I've ever > worked with... including drive mounting "rails" that don't require the > use of screws, and snap together front/side panels that also don't > require a single screw to be turned. The only things screwed down are > the CPU fan, power supply, motherboard and I/O cards... It's even a > non-name brand case; the only trouble I've had with it is that it's not > really designed for a full-sized ATX mobo and required me to abandon > the bottom of the 3 "external" 5.25" drive bays in order to use this > dual-proc Socket-A ASUS motherboard in it. :) Please explain to me what "external" 5.25" drive bays are. Seems like if they are external they are not part of the case. - don > > It doesn't take a lot of money to get a good case - I'd just recommend > you find one you like before you buy it. Of course, I haven't bought a > case without a computer in it since I bought this one, either. > > Pat > -- > Purdue University ITAP/RCS > Information Technology at Purdue > Research Computing and Storage > http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ > From teoz at neo.rr.com Sun Feb 1 23:11:21 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:04 2005 Subject: OT: PeeCee cases (was Re: Enlight case) References: Message-ID: <012901c3e94a$ff9432e0$0500fea9@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Maslin" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Monday, February 02, 2004 12:00 AM Subject: Re: OT: PeeCee cases (was Re: Enlight case) > Please explain to me what "external" 5.25" drive bays are. Seems > like if they are external they are not part of the case. > > - don External meaning you can put a drive that needs to have access to the outside of the case (cdrom, jazz drive, zip, dat, cdrw, etc). There used to be 5.25" IDE drives (Bigfoot drives by quantum) that would be put in the internal drive bays. From pat at computer-refuge.org Sun Feb 1 23:17:48 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:04 2005 Subject: OT: PeeCee cases (was Re: Enlight case) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200402020017.48233.pat@computer-refuge.org> On Monday 02 February 2004 00:00, Don Maslin wrote: > On Sun, 1 Feb 2004, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > > On Sunday 01 February 2004 18:10, jpero@sympatico.ca wrote: > > > > I didn't think people still buy AT cases, but this one (without > > > > power supply) went for $46.52 (I have this exact case in a > > > > p2-400 system for old games). Just pointing this out because > > > > even some common 486-Pentium PC era stuff has some value if it > > > > was of good quality. As time goes on cases get cheaper in > > > > quality, at least from what I have seen. > > > > > > Somewhat correct, in that era of AT stuff (88 to 96) quality is > > > all over the map and decent stuff is hard to find till online > > > ordering got more plentiful around 97. > > > > > > That case with PSU (has to, was about 100 to 120 new back then). > > > Warning: there were junk clones of those. > > > > > > Keep in mind, I've been there in that era and quickly discovered > > > quality is requirement for generic peecees. > > > > > > Today, the decent cases with good quality still cost about the > > > same still. The junkie cases still cost below 80. > > > > I'd have to disagree. The case I've got on this machine is from > > 2000 or so, and cost a whopping $40. It's about the nicest cases > > I've ever worked with... including drive mounting "rails" that > > don't require the use of screws, and snap together front/side > > panels that also don't require a single screw to be turned. The > > only things screwed down are the CPU fan, power supply, motherboard > > and I/O cards... It's even a non-name brand case; the only trouble > > I've had with it is that it's not really designed for a full-sized > > ATX mobo and required me to abandon the bottom of the 3 "external" > > 5.25" drive bays in order to use this dual-proc Socket-A ASUS > > motherboard in it. :) > > Please explain to me what "external" 5.25" drive bays are. Seems > like if they are external they are not part of the case. > > - don Umm, I mean drive bays that open to the outside of the case, ie. for CD-ROM or floppy drives. "Internal" bays would be ones like hard drive bays that don't have an opening to the outside of the case. From what I've seen, it's a fairly standard terminology amoung cases. Of course, it's not something I follow much. Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ From ggs at shiresoft.com Sun Feb 1 23:45:08 2004 From: ggs at shiresoft.com (Guy Sotomayor) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:04 2005 Subject: Need RT-11 on RX02 In-Reply-To: <1075569703.2797.5.camel@nazgul.shiresoft.com> References: <5.2.1.1.2.20040129182853.03644ec0@mail.comcast.net> <1075569703.2797.5.camel@nazgul.shiresoft.com> Message-ID: <1075700707.2817.40.camel@nazgul.shiresoft.com> Well, it took almost the entire weekend to get the floppy images over to my laptop. I had to get 2 9 track tape drives working (at the same time). What I have is 6 512512 byte (1001 sectors) images of the floppies. This doesn't seem quite right to me and simh didn't want to boot from it. Also if I boot RT from a simulated disk, RT doesn't like the directory (on the floppy). I unfortunately don't have a bootable RT pack for my 11/45 so I can't try it out on real hardware (and have *never* been able to boot from floppy on my 11's). The transfer involved the following: floppy --> files on 11/45 --> tape --> files on laptop I used the following to get the floppy images: dd if=/dev/rrx2 of=/tmp/rt11.n n was the # of the diskette I then tar'd up the directory and put it out on the TU80. I then put the tape in TSZ07 on one of my office machines and then copied the files over to my laptop. The only step I'm not sure about is the original "dd", but it seemed the most reasonable to me. I didn't notice a difference if I used the block device rather than the raw one (ie /dev/rx2 vs rrx2). I don't know if simh is expecting anything different in terms of image for the floppy. I'll continue working on it for a bit (but at a slower pace). I needed to do most of this anyway. I now have a tape of BSD 2 which I can put onto my unix v7m so that's progress (I've even verified that I can read the BSD tape!). Soon I'll be able to use vi on my 11 (no more ed)! On Sat, 2004-01-31 at 09:21, Guy Sotomayor wrote: > > I have a complete set of v5.1 (I think) DEC RX02 floppies (ie the > distribution diskettes). I haven't tried them out yet to see if they're > any good. > > My plan this weekend is to use my 11/45 running Unix V7 to copy off > images. If I don't get any errors, I was going to copy them off to my > laptop and then try booting them under an emulator to see if the > contents are any good. > > If they are, I can do either of the following: > 1. e-mail you a complete set of RX02 images (free) > 2. make a set of RX02 floppies and mail them to you (something for > the floppies and shipping). > > I'll let you know later this weekend if I was successful in making > (useful) images. -- TTFN - Guy From donm at cts.com Mon Feb 2 00:02:35 2004 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:04 2005 Subject: OT: PeeCee cases (was Re: Enlight case) In-Reply-To: <012901c3e94a$ff9432e0$0500fea9@game> Message-ID: On Mon, 2 Feb 2004, Teo Zenios wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Don Maslin" > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > Sent: Monday, February 02, 2004 12:00 AM > Subject: Re: OT: PeeCee cases (was Re: Enlight case) > > > > Please explain to me what "external" 5.25" drive bays are. Seems > > like if they are external they are not part of the case. > > > > - don > > External meaning you can put a drive that needs to have access to the > outside of the case (cdrom, jazz drive, zip, dat, cdrw, etc). > There used to be 5.25" IDE drives (Bigfoot drives by quantum) that would be > put in the internal drive bays. Gotcha! Though my inclination would be to differentiate "internal" drives from others. Guess I've been around too long. - don From doc at mdrconsult.com Mon Feb 2 00:52:27 2004 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:04 2005 Subject: Need RT-11 on RX02 In-Reply-To: <1075700707.2817.40.camel@nazgul.shiresoft.com> References: <5.2.1.1.2.20040129182853.03644ec0@mail.comcast.net> <1075569703.2797.5.camel@nazgul.shiresoft.com> <1075700707.2817.40.camel@nazgul.shiresoft.com> Message-ID: <5D085742-554C-11D8-9459-000A95A6B97A@mdrconsult.com> On Feb 1, 2004, at 11:45 PM, Guy Sotomayor wrote: > Well, it took almost the entire weekend to get the floppy images over > to > my laptop. I had to get 2 9 track tape drives working (at the same > time). > > I used the following to get the floppy images: > dd if=/dev/rrx2 of=/tmp/rt11.n > > n was the # of the diskette If I recall correctly, the RX02 is a 256-byte block. Maybe you need to add "ibs=256 obs=256" to the dd command. Also, if you have a Linux or *BSD system you can attach to the /45's serial console, you can image the RT-11 diskettes straight to the PC disk with vtserver's built-in "copy" function. I've used it to duplicate a bootable BRUSYS floppy on the 11/84. Doc From cswiger at widomaker.com Sun Feb 1 17:49:13 2004 From: cswiger at widomaker.com (Chuck Swiger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:04 2005 Subject: SCELBAL, Scelbi books Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.1.20040201184037.01d2fdf0@wilma.widomaker.com> Gang - I finally found an official serialized copy of "SCELBAL A high Level Language for the 8008", plus Wadsworth "Machine Language Programming for the 8008", plus Scelbi "Galaxy Game for the 8008/8080", "First Book of Games for the 8008/8080", "Monitor for 8080" and "Editor for 8080". The bad news is they're in a library so all I can do is check them out, scan, and return, according to the lady at the counter. Still, there must be some way I can purchase books that haven't been checked out in over 20 years from an Institute of Technology library. --Chuck From esharpe at uswest.net Mon Feb 2 02:31:11 2004 From: esharpe at uswest.net (ed sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:04 2005 Subject: Big eBay bux for Comdyna hybrid References: Message-ID: <000b01c3e966$e9ff8940$25696e44@SONYDIGITALED> why wait? there may be someone sad they missed out on the one that sold and would just love to buy yours... ed sharpe ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Donzelli" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Cc: Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2004 3:25 PM Subject: Re: Big eBay bux for Comdyna hybrid > > $1,400 bux, to be exact - which was the 'Buy-It-Now' price, that option > > was exercised. > > > > Ahem. > > %^&$. I was just goin to put one on Ebay. I suppose I should wait > now... > > William Donzelli > aw288@osfn.org > > From kurtk7 at visi.com Mon Feb 2 05:55:35 2004 From: kurtk7 at visi.com (kurtk7@visi.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:04 2005 Subject: Big eBay bux for Comdyna hybrid In-Reply-To: <000b01c3e966$e9ff8940$25696e44@SONYDIGITALED> References: <000b01c3e966$e9ff8940$25696e44@SONYDIGITALED> Message-ID: <1075722935.401e3ab745ee7@my.visi.com> Thanks for pointing out that auction, I had completely missed that one. Hmm, its definitely impressive, but checking the bid history, it seems the normal going rate for this topping out at $600. I don't know much about the systems, so I did a search, and found that The Comdyna company is still in business http://www.comdyna.com/ and currently offering a GP-6 and GP-10S music analogue systems. I emailed the site asking for historical information on their product line. If I find out anything, I will post it out. Kurt > why wait? there may be someone sad they missed out on the one that sold and > would just love to buy yours... > > ed sharpe > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "William Donzelli" > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > Cc: > Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2004 3:25 PM > Subject: Re: Big eBay bux for Comdyna hybrid > > > > > $1,400 bux, to be exact - which was the 'Buy-It-Now' price, that option > > > was exercised. > > > > > > Ahem. > > > > %^&$. I was just goin to put one on Ebay. I suppose I should wait > > now... > > > > William Donzelli > > aw288@osfn.org > > > > From vcf at siconic.com Mon Feb 2 06:43:52 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:04 2005 Subject: This isn't even close to sane In-Reply-To: <0f2201c3e945$0167c920$947ba8c0@p933> Message-ID: On Sun, 1 Feb 2004, Erik S. Klein wrote: > Maybe it's just me, but eBay has been getting more and more crazy. > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem > > &item=3583338499 It looks like the nerds are making money again. P.S. Fix your Reply-To setting. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Mon Feb 2 07:32:24 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:04 2005 Subject: Wow, the "killer POKE" works! (Commodore PET 2001-8) In-Reply-To: <20040126183858.82465.qmail@web40902.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040126083312.GB30246@bos7.spole.gov> <20040126183858.82465.qmail@web40902.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20040202133224.GB21979@bos7.spole.gov> On Mon, Jan 26, 2004 at 10:38:58AM -0800, steven wrote: > Ethan, > Are you really at the south pole? Yes. > Can I come and visit? If you have $25,000 you can book a tourist flight. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 02-Feb-2004 13:30 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -31.7 F (-35.4 C) Windchill -56.3 F (-49.1 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 7.7 kts Grid 078 Barometer 687.8 mb (10333. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Mon Feb 2 07:57:52 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:04 2005 Subject: RX8E printset? In-Reply-To: <200401282101.i0SL1bJA023187@spies.com> References: <200401282101.i0SL1bJA023187@spies.com> Message-ID: <20040202135752.GC21979@bos7.spole.gov> On Wed, Jan 28, 2004 at 01:01:37PM -0800, Al Kossow wrote: > > "Diagrams for an Implementation on a TC08 Backplance" > > I guess TC08s are common enough in Europe that you can > strip 'em to build floppy controllers. >From following the discussion from the creator, he didn't strip the TC08. The RX8E goes in an unused slot and his -8/i has *both* DECtape and floppy. I do not have a TC08 :-( I do have a TC11 and a TD8E, though. I was looking at this with an eye for building an RX8L from scratch (I have a BM08 on my -8/L for a total of 12K, but I doubt I could make the floppy interface fit in an -8/L box, even if there were an open spot. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 02-Feb-2004 13:50 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -32.1 F (-35.6 C) Windchill -54.2 F (-47.9 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 7.1 kts Grid 070 Barometer 687.6 mb (10341. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From vcf at siconic.com Mon Feb 2 08:14:03 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:04 2005 Subject: Commodore 128 with software and RUN magazines Message-ID: I don't know what the deal is here but it looks like an exchange of money might be required. See below. The Intel Xeon Master awaits your inquiry. Reply-to: Intelxeonmaster@hotmail.com -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 20:49:23 -0800 From: TiA To: vcf@vintage.org Subject: Iv got an old commador and all the software and acessories... I'v got an old Commadore 128D system, keyboard, and screen with alot of cool software, a few accessories, and tons of RUN, and Commadore magazines. PLEASE!!! If you are intrested in this stuff, please give me an email back at Intelxeonmaster@hotmail.com or call me 8:00 AM - 8:00 PM at (516) 864-9203... Thanx, David Whitcomb. From jcwren at jcwren.com Mon Feb 2 08:23:00 2004 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:04 2005 Subject: Wow, the "killer POKE" works! (Commodore PET 2001-8) In-Reply-To: <20040202133224.GB21979@bos7.spole.gov> References: <20040126083312.GB30246@bos7.spole.gov> <20040126183858.82465.qmail@web40902.mail.yahoo.com> <20040202133224.GB21979@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: <401E5D44.9070101@jcwren.com> Ethan Dicks wrote: >On Mon, Jan 26, 2004 at 10:38:58AM -0800, steven wrote: > > >>Ethan, >>Are you really at the south pole? >> >> > >Yes. > > > >>Can I come and visit? >> >> > >If you have $25,000 you can book a tourist flight. > >-ethan > > > If you plan on flying your own plane, be sure to pack enough fuel for the return flight. --jc From gkicomputers at yahoo.com Mon Feb 2 09:08:25 2004 From: gkicomputers at yahoo.com (steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:04 2005 Subject: This isn't even close to sane In-Reply-To: <0f2201c3e945$0167c920$947ba8c0@p933> Message-ID: <20040202150825.79169.qmail@web12407.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Erik S. Klein" wrote: > Maybe it's just me, but eBay has been getting more > and more crazy. > I think ebay is getting more crazy, I'm like 0 for 15 on my last 15 auction bids (mostly things under $50), and normally I don't bother bidding on something unless I feel my bid has a good chance of winning (I'm not one of those guys that bids, say $9.87 for an Altair.... who are those people anyway??) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/ From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Mon Feb 2 03:04:47 2004 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:04 2005 Subject: This isn't even close to sane In-Reply-To: <010101c3e947$358ae230$0500fea9@game> References: <0f2201c3e945$0167c920$947ba8c0@p933> <010101c3e947$358ae230$0500fea9@game> Message-ID: In message <010101c3e947$358ae230$0500fea9@game> you wrote: > I am not really surprised. People first spend allot for the hardware, then > they go after original manuals, original software, and finally posters or > magazines talking about the machine (the real hardcore go after schematics > and training videos). Actually, I tend to start with the machine, then I usually go after technical documentation and finish off with operation manuals and the like. The only exception I've made thus far was for my Tek oscilloscope - the service manual includes a copy of the operator's manual. I'd still like copies of the Popular Electronics magazines that included the Scopewriter, the COSMAC ELF and the add-ons and software for the ELF. Then there's the ten or so Maplin "Electronics: The Maplin Magazine" magazines I need to complete my - ahem - "collection". I've already got every single Everyday Practical Electronics magazine from November 1997 onwards. Later. -- Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, philpem@dsl.pipex.com | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice, http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI From vcf at siconic.com Mon Feb 2 09:41:48 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:04 2005 Subject: Southpole (was Re: Wow, the "killer POKE" works! (Commodore PET 2001-8)) In-Reply-To: <401E5D44.9070101@jcwren.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 2 Feb 2004, J.C. Wren wrote: > Ethan Dicks wrote: > > >On Mon, Jan 26, 2004 at 10:38:58AM -0800, steven wrote: > > > > > >>Ethan, > >>Are you really at the south pole? > >> > >> > > > >Yes. > > > > > > > >>Can I come and visit? > >> > >> > > > >If you have $25,000 you can book a tourist flight. > > > >-ethan > > > > > > > If you plan on flying your own plane, be sure to pack enough fuel for > the return flight. And bring along an extra passenger or two for food in case you go down in the middle of nowhere. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From jpl15 at panix.com Mon Feb 2 09:54:28 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:04 2005 Subject: Southpole (was Re: Wow, the "killer POKE" works! (Commodore PET 2001-8)) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 2 Feb 2004, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > And bring along an extra passenger or two for food in case you go down in > the middle of nowhere. > Like I80 between Auburn and Truckee, for example. At least you could get a pass named after you... ;} Cheers John From jcwren at jcwren.com Mon Feb 2 10:06:59 2004 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:04 2005 Subject: Southpole (was Re: Wow, the "killer POKE" works! (Commodore PET 2001-8)) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <401E75A3.3010103@jcwren.com> Vintage Computer Festival wrote: >On Mon, 2 Feb 2004, J.C. Wren wrote: > > > >>Ethan Dicks wrote: >> >> >> >>>On Mon, Jan 26, 2004 at 10:38:58AM -0800, steven wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>Ethan, >>>>Are you really at the south pole? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>Yes. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>Can I come and visit? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>If you have $25,000 you can book a tourist flight. >>> >>>-ethan >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>If you plan on flying your own plane, be sure to pack enough fuel for >>the return flight. >> >> > >And bring along an extra passenger or two for food in case you go down in >the middle of nowhere. > > > "Donner, party of 150 now boarding! Excuse me? Yes sir, your special meals request was loaded earlier." --jc From vcf at siconic.com Mon Feb 2 10:23:14 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:04 2005 Subject: Southpole (was Re: Wow, the "killer POKE" works! (Commodore PET 2001-8)) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 2 Feb 2004, John Lawson wrote: > > And bring along an extra passenger or two for food in case you go down in > > the middle of nowhere. > > Like I80 between Auburn and Truckee, for example. At least you could get > a pass named after you... Frankly, I think they should've named that spot "Dumbshit Pass". -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Mon Feb 2 10:24:05 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:04 2005 Subject: Southpole (was Re: Wow, the "killer POKE" works! (Commodore PET 2001-8)) In-Reply-To: <401E75A3.3010103@jcwren.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 2 Feb 2004, J.C. Wren wrote: > >>If you plan on flying your own plane, be sure to pack enough fuel for > >>the return flight. > >> > >> > > > >And bring along an extra passenger or two for food in case you go down in > >the middle of nowhere. > > > > > > > "Donner, party of 150 now boarding! Excuse me? Yes sir, your special > meals request was loaded earlier." ...in seat 3A. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From lyosnorezel at yahoo.com Mon Feb 2 10:48:24 2004 From: lyosnorezel at yahoo.com (Lyos Norezel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:04 2005 Subject: SCELBAL, Scelbi books In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.1.20040201184037.01d2fdf0@wilma.widomaker.com> Message-ID: <20040202164824.55577.qmail@web41703.mail.yahoo.com> Yes... there is... now it's not very honest but it'll get ya the books. If you think the price listed in the covers of the books is fair then here is what you do. Go to the library and tell them you've lost the books. They will tell you the price of the books and ask if you want to pat for them now or wait until the books are due to give you more time to find them. Pay for the books and walk out... owner of the books. Another option (less likely to work) is to ask them if you can purchase the books. Most times though they will say no. Lyos Gemini Norezel Chuck Swiger wrote: The bad news is they're in a library so all I can do is check them out, scan, and return, according to the lady at the counter. Still, there must be some way I can purchase books that haven't been checked out in over 20 years from an Institute of Technology library. --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! From vcf at siconic.com Mon Feb 2 11:38:57 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:04 2005 Subject: New vintage video gaming auction site Message-ID: In light of the recent discussion about getting ripped off at eBay with video game auctions, I thought I'd pass along this press release I just got about a new videogame marketplace called Bidiots! http://www.bidiots.com/pressreleases.asp The site looks very promising, with some neat stuff (mostly neo-retro) already having been listed. Check it out: http://www.bidiots.com -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Mon Feb 2 11:43:55 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:04 2005 Subject: SCELBAL, Scelbi books In-Reply-To: <20040202164824.55577.qmail@web41703.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 2 Feb 2004, Lyos Norezel wrote: > Yes... there is... now it's not very honest but it'll get ya the books. > If you think the price listed in the covers of the books is fair then > here is what you do. Go to the library and tell them you've lost the > books. They will tell you the price of the books and ask if you want to > pat for them now or wait until the books are due to give you more time > to find them. Pay for the books and walk out... owner of the books. > Another option (less likely to work) is to ask them if you can purchase > the books. Most times though they will say no. I'm sorry, but do you have anything useful to contribute here? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From dogas at bellsouth.net Mon Feb 2 13:27:29 2004 From: dogas at bellsouth.net (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:04 2005 Subject: $20 cosmac settles in to new home. was: more COSMAC stuff References: <3.0.6.32.20040111183141.00806df0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <1073941794.2026.16.camel@dhcp-250047> Message-ID: <00c401c3e9c2$99fe6860$b762d6d1@DOMAIN> From: Tom Jennings > I have an INFINITE CORP. Model UC1800 COSMAC "demo machine", quite used, > but complete and it seems to work as far as I can tell. I posted to this > list about it some time ago re: identifying it, but no replies. I have > no documentation. It seems to respond to hex keypad entries, so likely > it's working. > > First $20 takes it; I paid $10 for it and I'll pay to pack and ship it. > > http://wps.com/temp/dscf1898.jpg > http://wps.com/temp/dscf1899.jpg > I just wanted to thank the rest of the list for being a little slower than me that particular day. ;) She's home now and sends her love (Q - bit) to all. Snapped a few pics of nest and the parts... http://bellsouthpwp.net/d/o/dogas/u1800a.jpg http://bellsouthpwp.net/d/o/dogas/u1800b.jpg http://bellsouthpwp.net/d/o/dogas/u1800c.jpg http://bellsouthpwp.net/d/o/dogas/u1800d.jpg http://bellsouthpwp.net/d/o/dogas/u1800e.jpg http://bellsouthpwp.net/d/o/dogas/u1800f.jpg It's a wonderful system. Thanks again Tom, and everyone else.. I've got a cosmac site somewhere that can stand a bunch of updating now. ;) - Mike: dogas@bellsouth.net From silviorf at yahoo.com Mon Feb 2 14:10:39 2004 From: silviorf at yahoo.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?Silvio=20Finotti?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:04 2005 Subject: Looking for: Apple TURNOVER card, manuals, software.... In-Reply-To: <200402021802.i12I03ON020193@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20040202201039.94801.qmail@web10307.mail.yahoo.com> Hi folks.... I looking for the software for the IBM ISA card: Apple Turnover. I know these card can read/write apple disks with an IMB-PC. I got the board, but don't have neither tha cable or the software.... Could anyone help please ??? Many thanks, Silvio Finotti ______________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! GeoCities: 15MB de espa?o gr?tis para criar seu web site! http://br.geocities.yahoo.com/ From geoffreythomas at onetel.net.uk Mon Feb 2 14:14:49 2004 From: geoffreythomas at onetel.net.uk (Geoffrey Thomas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:04 2005 Subject: Vhmrrxutkvbziepg References: <200401312248.i0VMmUOD003553@huey.classiccmp.org> <401C2EE5.90306@ntlworld.com><1075590145.25176.4.camel@weka.localdomain> <401CE8E5.8040700@ntlworld.com> Message-ID: <02b001c3e9c9$3686ad40$bd534ed5@geoff> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Williams" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2004 11:54 AM Subject: Re: Vhmrrxutkvbziepg That makes more sense, the nice mr. Norton must of taken it away., > Dan Sorry to nitpick , but I've seen this on so many posts now , it should be - " the nice mr. Norton must HAVE taken it away " . It's the curse of the modern world - a homonym - all the newspapers do it e.g. - " Tow the line " instead of " Toe the line " etc. It's all down to people not reading enough books. This is not a nasty post but it really does get me going , another whisky and I'll be fine. Keep smiling (: ^ } . Geoff. From aw288 at osfn.org Mon Feb 2 14:45:39 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:04 2005 Subject: This isn't even close to sane In-Reply-To: <20040202150825.79169.qmail@web12407.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: > (I'm > not one of those guys that bids, say $9.87 for an > Altair.... who are those people anyway??) People do this for two reasons: 1) Sometimes (rarely), it works. I have done it, and have really made some decent steals (not Altairs, however). If the seller doesn't promote the item well (mistakes, bad descriptions, typos, etc.), tough cheese. 2) Quite a few people do not use My Ebay, so to track auctions, they put in token bids. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From vcf at siconic.com Mon Feb 2 14:53:43 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:04 2005 Subject: OT: Linguisitc pet peeves (was Re: Vhmrrxutkvbziepg) In-Reply-To: <02b001c3e9c9$3686ad40$bd534ed5@geoff> Message-ID: On Mon, 2 Feb 2004, Geoffrey Thomas wrote: > It's the curse of the modern world - a homonym - all the newspapers do it > e.g. - " Tow the line " instead of " Toe the line " etc. It's all down to > people not reading enough books. Yeah, and I admire those people who can "wreck havoc" rather than wreaking it. This all just points to our declining educational system. Remember, those are the faux pas' that manage to get past the editors. It must be horrific what the editors actually get from these up & coming "journalists", not to mention what the computer's spell checker might have to deal with. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From teoz at neo.rr.com Mon Feb 2 14:57:36 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:04 2005 Subject: Vhmrrxutkvbziepg References: <200401312248.i0VMmUOD003553@huey.classiccmp.org> <401C2EE5.90306@ntlworld.com> <1075590145.25176.4.camel@weka.localdomain> <401CE8E5.8040700@ntlworld.com> <02b001c3e9c9$3686ad40$bd534ed5@geoff> Message-ID: <000d01c3e9cf$3046e340$0500fea9@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Geoffrey Thomas" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Monday, February 02, 2004 3:14 PM Subject: Re: Vhmrrxutkvbziepg > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dan Williams" > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2004 11:54 AM > Subject: Re: Vhmrrxutkvbziepg > > > That makes more sense, the nice mr. Norton must of taken it away., > > Dan > > Sorry to nitpick , but I've seen this on so many posts now , it should be - > > " the nice mr. Norton must HAVE taken it away " . > > It's the curse of the modern world - a homonym - all the newspapers do it > e.g. - " Tow the line " instead of " Toe the line " etc. It's all down to > people not reading enough books. > This is not a nasty post but it really does get me going , another whisky > and I'll be fine. > Keep smiling (: ^ } . > > Geoff. > What is the burning desire that makes people go out of their way to correct grammar in posts? Unlike in programming where a decimal point in the wrong place means something completely different , you can misspell a word and the target audience still knows exactly what your talking about. The English language is full of words bastardized by the locals to communicate with whatever society conquered England at the time (Vikings, Normans, etc). The language and spelling changes slightly every year and can be used to figure out what society and era the text came from (I bet bootyliscious is in the dictionary by now). From jpl15 at panix.com Mon Feb 2 15:01:29 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:04 2005 Subject: OT: Linguisitc pet peeves (was Re: Vhmrrxutkvbziepg) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 2 Feb 2004, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > This all just points to our declining educational system. Remember, those > are the faux pas' that manage to get past the editors. It must be ^^^^^^^^ fauxs pas > horrific what the editors actually get from these up & coming ^^^^^^^^^^ up-and-coming > "journalists", not to mention what the computer's spell checker might have > to deal with. > Well, maybe if they had the right carthridge in it.... Cheerz JH0N D00D > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > > From geoffreythomas at onetel.net.uk Mon Feb 2 15:02:56 2004 From: geoffreythomas at onetel.net.uk (Geoffrey Thomas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:04 2005 Subject: Vhmrrxutkvbziepg References: <200401312248.i0VMmUOD003553@huey.classiccmp.org><401C2EE5.90306@ntlworld.com><1075590145.25176.4.camel@weka.localdomain><401CE8E5.8040700@ntlworld.com><02b001c3e9c9$3686ad40$bd534ed5@geoff> <000d01c3e9cf$3046e340$0500fea9@game> Message-ID: <035601c3e9cf$ef6854c0$bd534ed5@geoff> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Teo Zenios" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Monday, February 02, 2004 8:57 PM Subject: Re: Vhmrrxutkvbziepg > What is the burning desire that makes people go out of their way to correct > grammar in posts? Unlike in programming where a decimal point in the wrong > place means something completely different , you can misspell a word and the > target audience still knows exactly what your talking about. The English > language is full of words bastardized by the locals to communicate with > whatever society conquered England at the time (Vikings, Normans, etc). The > language and spelling changes slightly every year and can be used to figure > out what society and era the text came from (I bet bootyliscious is in the > dictionary by now). Again , I have to apologise , but I just happen to be into logic - in a small way ! and " must of " does not compute in that context. Just trying to be helpful. (:^{ Geoff. From jpl15 at panix.com Mon Feb 2 15:04:31 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:05 2005 Subject: Vhmrrxutkvbziepg In-Reply-To: <000d01c3e9cf$3046e340$0500fea9@game> References: <200401312248.i0VMmUOD003553@huey.classiccmp.org> <401C2EE5.90306@ntlworld.com> <1075590145.25176.4.camel@weka.localdomain> <401CE8E5.8040700@ntlworld.com> <02b001c3e9c9$3686ad40$bd534ed5@geoff> <000d01c3e9cf$3046e340$0500fea9@game> Message-ID: On Mon, 2 Feb 2004, Teo Zenios wrote: > > What is the burning desire that makes people go out of their way to correct > grammar in posts? Unlike in programming where a decimal point in the wrong > place means something completely different , you can misspell a word and the > target audience still knows exactly what your talking about. The English ^^^^ you're > language is full of words bastardized by the locals to communicate with chz jhn BIG PS: One kin only hope that Y'all knows I'm Jokin'!! From jwest at classiccmp.org Mon Feb 2 15:15:26 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:05 2005 Subject: Vhmrrxutkvbziepg References: <200401312248.i0VMmUOD003553@huey.classiccmp.org><401C2EE5.90306@ntlworld.com><1075590145.25176.4.camel@weka.localdomain><401CE8E5.8040700@ntlworld.com> <02b001c3e9c9$3686ad40$bd534ed5@geoff><000d01c3e9cf$3046e340$0500fea9@game> Message-ID: <01c401c3e9d1$addbb680$033310ac@kwcorp.com> > > What is the burning desire that makes people go out of their way to correct > > grammar in posts? Because in real life, just like programming in COBOL, missing a period is a very bad thing. --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From teoz at neo.rr.com Mon Feb 2 15:21:08 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:05 2005 Subject: Vhmrrxutkvbziepg References: <200401312248.i0VMmUOD003553@huey.classiccmp.org> <401C2EE5.90306@ntlworld.com> <1075590145.25176.4.camel@weka.localdomain> <401CE8E5.8040700@ntlworld.com> <02b001c3e9c9$3686ad40$bd534ed5@geoff> <000d01c3e9cf$3046e340$0500fea9@game> Message-ID: <005501c3e9d2$79cc9340$0500fea9@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Lawson" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Monday, February 02, 2004 4:04 PM Subject: Re: Vhmrrxutkvbziepg > > > On Mon, 2 Feb 2004, Teo Zenios wrote: > > > > What is the burning desire that makes people go out of their way to correct > > grammar in posts? Unlike in programming where a decimal point in the wrong > > place means something completely different , you can misspell a word and the > > target audience still knows exactly what your talking about. The English > ^^^^ > > you're > > > > > language is full of words bastardized by the locals to communicate with > > > > > > > > chz > jhn > > > > BIG PS: One kin only hope that Y'all knows I'm Jokin'!! > I knew I would get a correction or two since math and science were more my specialty in school and English class put me to sleep. Anyway I just find it amusing that there can be a heated debate or argument going on either in a newsgroup or mailinglist and somebody will jump in to correct grammar or spelling with nothing useful to say about the topic being discussed. From jcwren at jcwren.com Mon Feb 2 15:29:27 2004 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:05 2005 Subject: OT: Linguisitc pet peeves (was Re: Vhmrrxutkvbziepg) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <401EC137.8070509@jcwren.com> John Lawson wrote: > > On Mon, 2 Feb 2004, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > >> This all just points to our declining educational system. Remember, those >> are the faux pas' that manage to get past the editors. It must be > > ^^^^^^^^ > > fauxs pas > > > > >> horrific what the editors actually get from these up & coming > > ^^^^^^^^^^ > > up-and-coming > > > >> "journalists", not to mention what the computer's spell checker might >> have >> to deal with. >> > > Well, maybe if they had the right carthridge in it.... ^^^^^^^^ cartridge > > > > > > > Cheerz > > JH0N D00D > > > > >>-- >> >>Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >>------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org >> >>[ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] >>[ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] >> >> >> >> From geoffreythomas at onetel.net.uk Mon Feb 2 15:27:15 2004 From: geoffreythomas at onetel.net.uk (Geoffrey Thomas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:05 2005 Subject: OT: Linguisitc pet peeves (was Re: Vhmrrxutkvbziepg) References: Message-ID: <036701c3e9d3$54ab7580$bd534ed5@geoff> Now we're getting silly, words which are innately plural do not necessarily have a separate plural spelling in English. The plural of faux pas is - you've guessed it - faux pas. Have a look at the link below to discover what may have happened to the thought processes here. (: <) http://www.freesearch.co.uk/dictionary/fauxs+pas Geoff. ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Lawson" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Monday, February 02, 2004 9:01 PM Subject: Re: OT: Linguisitc pet peeves (was Re: Vhmrrxutkvbziepg) > > > On Mon, 2 Feb 2004, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > > > > This all just points to our declining educational system. Remember, those > > are the faux pas' that manage to get past the editors. It must be > ^^^^^^^^ > > fauxs pas > Cheerz > > JH0N D00D From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Mon Feb 2 15:21:35 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:05 2005 Subject: Vhmrrxutkvbziepg In-Reply-To: <000d01c3e9cf$3046e340$0500fea9@game> References: <200401312248.i0VMmUOD003553@huey.classiccmp.org> <401C2EE5.90306@ntlworld.com> <1075590145.25176.4.camel@weka.localdomain> <401CE8E5.8040700@ntlworld.com> <02b001c3e9c9$3686ad40$bd534ed5@geoff> <000d01c3e9cf$3046e340$0500fea9@game> Message-ID: <200402022129.QAA10917@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> >> [..."of" vs "have", or more properly vs "'ve"...] > What is the burning desire that makes people go out of their way to > correct grammar in posts? Well, speaking purely personally (ie, not for "people"), grammar and spelling mistakes bother me not so much in themselves as as evidence of sloppiness and/or carelessness. A few of the worst - such as confusing "its" and "it's", or "lose" and "loose" (which latter aren't even homonyms!), or treating "criteria" as a singular noun - I have found myself becoming sufficiently sensitized to that they grate on my eye, to mix a metaphor, and make the text significantly less pleasant (and marginally slower) to read. I do usually reserve on-list corrections for only the most egregious examples, though. :) Occasionally they can be amusing, as when someone knew "faux pas" from spoken speech, wanted to write it, and ended up writing "pho pa". Ever since, I've thought of that as the Vietnamese mistake, because that spelling looks very Vietnamese to me. :-) /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From arcarlini at iee.org Mon Feb 2 15:36:23 2004 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:05 2005 Subject: OT: Linguisitc pet peeves (was Re: Vhmrrxutkvbziepg) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000201c3e9d4$a3af7770$5b01a8c0@athlon> > fauxs pas Err ... > JH0N D00D "d00d" Shirley? -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From freddyboomboom at comcast.net Mon Feb 2 12:34:58 2004 From: freddyboomboom at comcast.net (Andrew Prince) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:05 2005 Subject: HP JetDirect card In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1075746897.2045.2.camel@localhost> On Sun, 2004-02-01 at 20:10, John Lawson wrote: > JetDirect 600N Ethernet J3111A > > physical condition looks fine, otherwise unknown, free for the asking, > ship via USPS priority mail. > I know it was spoken for... But FYI: This is for the HP 4000, 5000, 8000, 8100, and their kin. Not for older Laserjets... There's also a note about it being Localtalk, but it may support other protocols as well... TTFN Andrew From doc at mdrconsult.com Mon Feb 2 15:54:10 2004 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:05 2005 Subject: Vhmrrxutkvbziepg In-Reply-To: <000d01c3e9cf$3046e340$0500fea9@game> References: <200401312248.i0VMmUOD003553@huey.classiccmp.org> <401C2EE5.90306@ntlworld.com> <1075590145.25176.4.camel@weka.localdomain> <401CE8E5.8040700@ntlworld.com> <02b001c3e9c9$3686ad40$bd534ed5@geoff> <000d01c3e9cf$3046e340$0500fea9@game> Message-ID: <553217DA-55CA-11D8-8C7F-000A95A6B97A@mdrconsult.com> On Feb 2, 2004, at 2:57 PM, Teo Zenios wrote: > > What is the burning desire that makes people go out of their way to > correct > grammar in posts? Unlike in programming where a decimal point in the > wrong > place means something completely different , you can misspell a word > and the > target audience still knows exactly what your talking about. The > English > language is full of words bastardized by the locals to communicate with > whatever society conquered England at the time (Vikings, Normans, > etc). The > language and spelling changes slightly every year and can be used to > figure > out what society and era the text came from (I bet bootyliscious is in > the > dictionary by now). BS. Nobody's correcting anything that's in the gray zone. Why do we "go out of our way" to correct abominable grammar, spelling, or the latest "Caps-don't-mean-shit-to-me-so-why-bother" attitude? Because it's like fingernails on a chalk board. Because I write technical documentation for a living and I know that, no matter what the lazy writer or correspondent wants to believe, it *does* matter. If nothing else, it makes the writer appear sloppy and uneducated. To the literate reader, even a minor mistake in spelling or punctuation causes a stop and check, costing time and irritation. For a person whose first language is not English, and there are many on this list, your claim that "the target audience knows exactly what your[0] talking about" is not a reasonable assumption at all. It's only your familiarity with idiom and correct usage that allows you to translate the mistakes easily. Mostly, to me, it's insulting. I go to some trouble to make sure that my writing and my correspondence are correctly proofed and sensible. I sort of expect the same behavior, especially in a group of ostensibly intelligent and educated technicians. A total absence, or random misuse, of capitals and punctuation not only negates any credibility the writer or poster might have had, and the post takes much, much longer to parse. I usually don't bother to try to read that sort of spew at all. Mostly I go to the trouble to correct consistent bad grammar or spelling because much of what I know I learned when somebody told me "Hey, did you know you're screwing that up?" If I can't take reasonable correction and learn from it, that pretty much defines me as an idiot. Doc, putting away the soapbox [0] Took all I had not to misquote that. From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Mon Feb 2 16:20:19 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:05 2005 Subject: Vhmrrxutkvbziepg In-Reply-To: <000d01c3e9cf$3046e340$0500fea9@game> References: <200401312248.i0VMmUOD003553@huey.classiccmp.org> <401C2EE5.90306@ntlworld.com> <1075590145.25176.4.camel@weka.localdomain> <401CE8E5.8040700@ntlworld.com> <02b001c3e9c9$3686ad40$bd534ed5@geoff> <000d01c3e9cf$3046e340$0500fea9@game> Message-ID: <1075759612.390.398.camel@weka.localdomain> Ok, my take on this... > What is the burning desire that makes people go out of their way to correct > grammar in posts? Unlike in programming where a decimal point in the wrong > place means something completely different , you can misspell a word and the > target audience still knows exactly what your talking about. Well it annoys me to see people who can't spell or use correct punctuation when using their first language. I'm not irritated at them, but at the school system which taught them, because if they've been through a reasonable schooling system then they should be using correct spelling and punctuation without even thinking. I also get annoyed at myself when I come back to read things that I've written and notice mistakes (I expect I've made a few in this post!) I suppose I like to take pride in my work, no matter what form it takes - and it's my own failing not to realise that when it comes to the written word, some others don't :-) > The English > language is full of words bastardized by the locals to communicate with > whatever society conquered England at the time (Vikings, Normans, etc). The > language and spelling changes slightly every year and can be used to figure > out what society and era the text came from Ahh, but aren't spelling changes due to foreign influences (meaning outside of community, not necessarily country) different from spelling changes through laziness or bad tuition? Plus, the former are more likely to be adopted by a smaller community first and then spread to a wider area, whilst the latter tend to be isolated and random occurances across a far wider area. As an example researching the use of 'thief' and 'theef' (a far older equivalent) will give you some useful data. Researching 'theif', a reasonably common modern-day error, will not likely yield anything useful as it will have roughly the same chance of occuring throughout the educated English-speaking world independant of location (yes there will be some discrepancies to that) Dialects are another matter; English and American English being good examples. It's amazing how many American English spellings are now becoming commonplace over here. > (I bet bootyliscious is in the dictionary by now). bootylicious in these parts, I believe ;) Joking aside, that is - as far as I know - a new word rather than something that's originated in a common mis-spelling... If anyone's got this far without falling asleep, the "Common Errors in English" page at http://www.wsu.edu:8080/~brians/errors/errors.html is an interesting resource for language nuts (although it should be "Common Errors in American English" - see 'ax', 'offense' etc.) Similarly, the World Wide Words page at http://www.worldwidewords.org/articles gives a nice history of some English words and how they have altered over the years, particularly due to overseas influences. Thus endeth the lesson... cheers Jules From vcf at siconic.com Mon Feb 2 16:08:31 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:05 2005 Subject: Vhmrrxutkvbziepg In-Reply-To: <000d01c3e9cf$3046e340$0500fea9@game> Message-ID: On Mon, 2 Feb 2004, Teo Zenios wrote: > What is the burning desire that makes people go out of their way to correct > grammar in posts? Unlike in programming where a decimal point in the wrong Because we can and it makes us feel superior. > out what society and era the text came from (I bet bootyliscious is in the > dictionary by now). You spelt "bootylicious" wrong :) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Mon Feb 2 16:12:51 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:05 2005 Subject: OT: Linguisitc pet peeves (was Re: Vhmrrxutkvbziepg) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 2 Feb 2004, John Lawson wrote: > > This all just points to our declining educational system. Remember, those > > are the faux pas' that manage to get past the editors. It must be > ^^^^^^^^ > > fauxs pas Ha. We're both wrong. According to Merriam-Webster, the plural is also "faux pas". > > horrific what the editors actually get from these up & coming > ^^^^^^^^^^ > > up-and-coming It's called "abbreviation". That sqiggly doohickey on the keyboard ain't there for just nothin ya know. > > "journalists", not to mention what the computer's spell checker might have > > to deal with. > > > > Well, maybe if they had the right carthridge in it.... The preferred spelling for cool people! > I got your alacrity right here buddy! :) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Mon Feb 2 16:15:00 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:05 2005 Subject: Vhmrrxutkvbziepg In-Reply-To: <005501c3e9d2$79cc9340$0500fea9@game> Message-ID: On Mon, 2 Feb 2004, Teo Zenios wrote: > I knew I would get a correction or two since math and science were more my > specialty in school and English class put me to sleep. Anyway I just find it > amusing that there can be a heated debate or argument going on either in a > newsgroup or mailinglist and somebody will jump in to correct grammar or > spelling with nothing useful to say about the topic being discussed. Well, when the topic being discussed is pointless in itself, which is the bigger crime? Contributing to the pointless discussion or pointing out the spelling and grammatical errors in its constituent messages? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Mon Feb 2 16:15:32 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:05 2005 Subject: OT: Linguisitc pet peeves (was Re: Vhmrrxutkvbziepg) In-Reply-To: <401EC137.8070509@jcwren.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 2 Feb 2004, J.C. Wren wrote: > > Well, maybe if they had the right carthridge in it.... > > ^^^^^^^^ > cartridge No no no! John has finally been trained properly and you go and try to ruin it! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From gordonjcp at gjcp.net Mon Feb 2 12:09:37 2004 From: gordonjcp at gjcp.net (Gordon JC Pearce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:05 2005 Subject: Some things for sale . . . In-Reply-To: <4C49185A.03361773.0000EF7A@aol.com> References: <4C49185A.03361773.0000EF7A@aol.com> Message-ID: <1075744700.22859.25.camel@pluto> On Thu, 2004-01-29 at 18:31, MTPro@aol.com wrote: > Hi everyone, I have a few things I'd like to clear out if anyone interested would write me. Or later they will go on eBay and/or vintage.org MarketPlace. I have: > > a number of great old BYTEs, Creative Computing, Kilobaud, Sinclair, CoCo, Microcomputing, magazines, etc. > A very nice Amiga 1000 with keyboard, mouse, two Amiga monitors, external floppy, disks, etc. > Osborne 1 blue model, turns on and ready, but floppies need adjustment (have to check). > Epson QX10 with monitor, keyboard, box, software, manuals, etc. > Amstrad PPC640 (or 512, gotta check), works, but needs contrast adjusted. Might be interested in the Osborne 1. Where are you? Gordon. From teoz at neo.rr.com Mon Feb 2 16:23:29 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:05 2005 Subject: Vhmrrxutkvbziepg References: Message-ID: <007c01c3e9db$2f2c2e00$0500fea9@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vintage Computer Festival" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Monday, February 02, 2004 5:08 PM Subject: Re: Vhmrrxutkvbziepg > On Mon, 2 Feb 2004, Teo Zenios wrote: > > > What is the burning desire that makes people go out of their way to correct > > grammar in posts? Unlike in programming where a decimal point in the wrong > > Because we can and it makes us feel superior. > > > out what society and era the text came from (I bet bootyliscious is in the > > dictionary by now). > > You spelt "bootylicious" wrong :) > > -- > http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=bootyliscious is where I got the spelling from using google (don't believe everything on the web) http://www.geocities.com/destinyschildlyrics/survivor_lyrics/bootylicious.html spelled the way you mentioned from destiny childs album (the group that came up with the term). From dave at naffnet.org.uk Mon Feb 2 16:40:52 2004 From: dave at naffnet.org.uk (Dave Woodman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:05 2005 Subject: Vhmrrxutkvbziepg In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <401ED1F4.2070903@naffnet.org.uk> Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > >You spelt "bootylicious" wrong :) > Wrongly, surely? Cheers, Dave. From vcf at siconic.com Mon Feb 2 16:44:45 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:05 2005 Subject: Vhmrrxutkvbziepg In-Reply-To: <007c01c3e9db$2f2c2e00$0500fea9@game> Message-ID: On Mon, 2 Feb 2004, Teo Zenios wrote: > http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=bootyliscious is where I got > the spelling from using google (don't believe everything on the web) Well, sorry to be truthful here, but the particular segment of the population from whence that word came would probably not know how to spell delicious either. > http://www.geocities.com/destinyschildlyrics/survivor_lyrics/bootylicious.html > spelled the way you mentioned from destiny childs album (the group that came > up with the term). Yes, the correct spelling (at least according to English rules). -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From spectre at floodgap.com Mon Feb 2 17:04:25 2004 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:05 2005 Subject: Vhmrrxutkvbziepg In-Reply-To: <401ED1F4.2070903@naffnet.org.uk> from Dave Woodman at "Feb 2, 4 10:40:52 pm" Message-ID: <200402022304.PAA33306@floodgap.com> > > You spelt "bootylicious" wrong :) > Wrongly, surely? Dat's wack. -- ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@floodgap.com -- Funny, I don't remember being absent minded. ------------------------------- From teoz at neo.rr.com Mon Feb 2 17:06:33 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:05 2005 Subject: Vhmrrxutkvbziepg References: <200401312248.i0VMmUOD003553@huey.classiccmp.org> <401C2EE5.90306@ntlworld.com> <1075590145.25176.4.camel@weka.localdomain> <401CE8E5.8040700@ntlworld.com> <02b001c3e9c9$3686ad40$bd534ed5@geoff> <000d01c3e9cf$3046e340$0500fea9@game> <553217DA-55CA-11D8-8C7F-000A95A6B97A@mdrconsult.com> Message-ID: <00a901c3e9e1$33887480$0500fea9@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Doc Shipley" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Monday, February 02, 2004 4:54 PM Subject: Re: Vhmrrxutkvbziepg > > BS. Nobody's correcting anything that's in the gray zone. > > Why do we "go out of our way" to correct abominable grammar, > spelling, or the latest "Caps-don't-mean-shit-to-me-so-why-bother" > attitude? > > Because it's like fingernails on a chalk board. Because I write > technical documentation for a living and I know that, no matter what > the lazy writer or correspondent wants to believe, it *does* matter. > If nothing else, it makes the writer appear sloppy and uneducated. To > the literate reader, even a minor mistake in spelling or punctuation > causes a stop and check, costing time and irritation. > > For a person whose first language is not English, and there are many > on this list, your claim that "the target audience knows exactly what > your[0] talking about" is not a reasonable assumption at all. It's > only your familiarity with idiom and correct usage that allows you to > translate the mistakes easily. > > Mostly, to me, it's insulting. I go to some trouble to make sure > that my writing and my correspondence are correctly proofed and > sensible. I sort of expect the same behavior, especially in a group of > ostensibly intelligent and educated technicians. > > A total absence, or random misuse, of capitals and punctuation not > only negates any credibility the writer or poster might have had, and > the post takes much, much longer to parse. I usually don't bother to > try to read that sort of spew at all. > > Mostly I go to the trouble to correct consistent bad grammar or > spelling because much of what I know I learned when somebody told me > "Hey, did you know you're screwing that up?" If I can't take > reasonable correction and learn from it, that pretty much defines me as > an idiot. > > > Doc, putting away the soapbox > > [0] Took all I had not to misquote that. > > As time goes on and I type 95% of my correspondence instead of writing it to paper with pen I find my handwriting has grown worse then in my school days and I rely more on a spellchecker then proofreading. If I did writing for a living, or better yet proofread technical writing on a daily basis my skills probably would not have grown worse with time. Twenty years from now I would be embarrassed to read something I posted earlier that was technically incorrect and wouldn't worry too much about an obvious spelling mistake. I don't think topics posted on this mailinglist are going to be published, but people will be googling through it to get technical information. Judging from your reply if I would have written a book outlining the real origins of the universe you would quit reading it after you found the 3rd spelling or grammar mistake? Granted if I did print such a book I would have it proofread by experts in English grammar, but I feel that the knowledge your trying to convey is more important then the few easy to spot errors in grammar. In a perfect world everybody would have the same skills in everything, but that's not the way things are. I will take correct content over correct grammar anyday. From ohh at drizzle.com Mon Feb 2 17:23:01 2004 From: ohh at drizzle.com (O. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:05 2005 Subject: SCELBAL, Scelbi books In-Reply-To: <20040202164824.55577.qmail@web41703.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Someone on the list, whose name I have chosen to remove, wrote (in part): > Yes... there is... now it's not very honest but it'll get ya the books. > If you think the price listed in the covers of the books is fair then > here is what you do. Go to the library and tell them you've lost the > books. [...] As someone who still actually _uses_ libraries for research, I can't even begin to express how barbaric I find this suggestion. "Not very honest"? Well, true, and if you don't have any qualms about slapping the face of _every other person_ who might want to do the same research for the rest of time... > Another option (less likely to work) is to ask them if you can purchase > the books. Most times though they will say no. But at least this is an approach that doesn't deprive you of your honor, your honesty or your soul. :) Many libraries also have annual or semi-annual public sales, of both donated books and (occasionally) old stock of their own which has been duplicated or outlived its public usefulness, so that's another method that wouldn't taint your hands and rob your fellow-collectors. :) Returning to Chuck Swiger's original message: > Still, there must be some way I can purchase books that haven't been > checked out in over 20 years from an Institute of Technology library. If you're only after the information, the copies the library suggested would probably be adequate. But there is something nice about having an actual, honest-to-God book in your hands. :) Have you tried looking for the books elsewhere? Half.com, abebooks.com, alibris.com, powells.com, allbookstores.com and even amazon.com are all good sources for various old technology volumes. I've had good luck with most of them at one time or another. ePain - er, eBay also works, if you're willing to wait long enough and have a big enough checkbook. (I hesitate suggesting them; but I have been able to find two hysterically rare nonfiction volumes there, so I guess I can't gripe. ) If you live somewhere with a good variety of used bookstores, too, it could be worth your while to drop by some of them and see if they might be on a forgotten shelf there as well. Good used bookstores are full of surprises. :) ...Aiya! That other poster's suggestion just strikes me as scummy and invidious. Every time I go to the library, look for a particular volume and have the catalog tell me it's "missing from collection", I'm going to think of that unnamed poster and mutter a curse. :/ ...And that'll be, on average, about three curses every time I research _any_thing... :( -O.- From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Feb 2 17:47:07 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:05 2005 Subject: SCELBAL, Scelbi books In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040202154311.M9610@newshell.lmi.net> > Yes... there is... now it's not very honest but it'll get ya the books. > If you think the price listed in the covers of the books is fair then > here is what you do. Go to the library and tell them you've lost the > books. So,... may I borrow your car? If I don't want to return it, I'll write a check for the bluebook value. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred MLIS From teoz at neo.rr.com Mon Feb 2 17:49:36 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:05 2005 Subject: SCELBAL, Scelbi books References: Message-ID: <00c301c3e9e7$36e8a7c0$0500fea9@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "O. Sharp" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Monday, February 02, 2004 6:23 PM Subject: Re: SCELBAL, Scelbi books > > Someone on the list, whose name I have chosen to remove, wrote (in part): > > > Yes... there is... now it's not very honest but it'll get ya the books. > > If you think the price listed in the covers of the books is fair then > > here is what you do. Go to the library and tell them you've lost the > > books. [...] > > As someone who still actually _uses_ libraries for research, I can't even > begin to express how barbaric I find this suggestion. "Not very honest"? > Well, true, and if you don't have any qualms about slapping the face of > _every other person_ who might want to do the same research for the rest > of time... > > > Another option (less likely to work) is to ask them if you can purchase > > the books. Most times though they will say no. > > But at least this is an approach that doesn't deprive you of your honor, > your honesty or your soul. :) Many libraries also have annual or > semi-annual public sales, of both donated books and (occasionally) old > stock of their own which has been duplicated or outlived its public > usefulness, so that's another method that wouldn't taint your hands and > rob your fellow-collectors. :) > > Returning to Chuck Swiger's original message: > > > Still, there must be some way I can purchase books that haven't been > > checked out in over 20 years from an Institute of Technology library. > > If you're only after the information, the copies the library suggested > would probably be adequate. But there is something nice about having an > actual, honest-to-God book in your hands. :) Have you tried looking for > the books elsewhere? Half.com, abebooks.com, alibris.com, powells.com, > allbookstores.com and even amazon.com are all good sources for various > old technology volumes. I've had good luck with most of them at one time > or another. ePain - er, eBay also works, if you're willing to wait long > enough and have a big enough checkbook. (I hesitate suggesting them; but I > have been able to find two hysterically rare nonfiction volumes there, so > I guess I can't gripe. ) If you live somewhere with a good variety of > used bookstores, too, it could be worth your while to drop by some of them > and see if they might be on a forgotten shelf there as well. Good used > bookstores are full of surprises. :) > > ...Aiya! That other poster's suggestion just strikes me as scummy and > invidious. Every time I go to the library, look for a particular volume > and have the catalog tell me it's "missing from collection", I'm going to > think of that unnamed poster and mutter a curse. :/ > > ...And that'll be, on average, about three curses every time I research > _any_thing... :( > > -O.- > > > I agree people stealing from the library and paying back the original purchased price for a book long out of print (that cant be replaced) is VERY low in my opinion. If your looking for something technical and your local library doesn't have it try hitting your local college. The school I graduated from has an alumni program where for a few bucks a year you get access to the school library (among other things) just like you did when you were a student. I bet any donations would allow you to get the same privileges even if you never attended the school in question. Any college library will let you browse the books and magazines there, they just wont let you walk out with them unless your a student and have a card. And yes most libraries do have sales each year on books that are outdated or have been replaced with new editions. I have quite a few technical (engineering) books purchased for pennies on the dollar (from the old original price) from such sales. I find books printed in the 1930's (when people started hitting the theory of how allot of engineering things really worked like thermodynamics etc) offer a perfect start to understanding a technical subject because everything is spelled out step by step (including experiments and raw data) since its fairly new to the people of the time while new books (on old subjects) expect you to know allot about the subject, math, and theory they skim over to get to their point. From vcf at siconic.com Mon Feb 2 17:50:35 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:05 2005 Subject: Vhmrrxutkvbziepg In-Reply-To: <401ED1F4.2070903@naffnet.org.uk> Message-ID: On Mon, 2 Feb 2004, Dave Woodman wrote: > Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > > > >You spelt "bootylicious" wrong :) > > > Wrongly, surely? Not in Ebonics, yo. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Mon Feb 2 17:58:06 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:05 2005 Subject: Vhmrrxutkvbziepg In-Reply-To: <00a901c3e9e1$33887480$0500fea9@game> Message-ID: On Mon, 2 Feb 2004, Teo Zenios wrote: > As time goes on and I type 95% of my correspondence instead of writing it to > paper with pen I find my handwriting has grown worse then in my school days > and I rely more on a spellchecker then proofreading. If I did writing for a > living, or better yet proofread technical writing on a daily basis my skills > probably would not have grown worse with time. I write exclusively on my computer and my writing has stayed the same (i.e. nigh impeccable!) > Twenty years from now I would be embarrassed to read something I posted > earlier that was technically incorrect and wouldn't worry too much about an > obvious spelling mistake. I don't think topics posted on this mailinglist > are going to be published, but people will be googling through it to get > technical information. Your messages ARE being published. It's called the WORLD WIDE WEB. What you write online stays around forever these days. > Judging from your reply if I would have written a book outlining the real > origins of the universe you would quit reading it after you found the 3rd > spelling or grammar mistake? I would. It doesn't bode well for the quality of the rest of the work and doesn't give me a good impression of the author. It could mean that the work was so bad that no reputable publisher would take it on, and so instead it was either self-published, and was not proofread, therefore further losing credibility, or the proofreader of the low budget publisher wasn't very good, which would further impugn the work. So, theoretically, I could pass over one of the most important scientific treatises of the century, but based on past experience reading poorly written works, I would doubt it. > Granted if I did print such a book I would have > it proofread by experts in English grammar, but I feel that the knowledge > your trying to convey is more important then the few easy to spot errors in > grammar. In a perfect world everybody would have the same skills in > everything, but that's not the way things are. I will take correct content > over correct grammar anyday. But how can you determine if the content is good if you can't decipher the text because the grammer is so poor? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Feb 2 18:00:15 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:05 2005 Subject: Vhmrrxutkvbziepg In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040202155912.R9610@newshell.lmi.net> > You spelt "bootylicious" wrong :) Is there a RIGHT spellinq? From r_beaudry at hotmail.com Mon Feb 2 18:29:38 2004 From: r_beaudry at hotmail.com (Rich Beaudry) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:05 2005 Subject: NEC APC III, anyone have one? Message-ID: Hello all, I just received a large lot of NEC APC III software and docs... Naturally, this means I need an NEC APC III to go with it :-). I know it's a not-quite-PC-compatible. Anyone have one they'd be willing to part with? I assume I'd need the keyboard and system unit. Is the video output some sort of standard, or would I need the monitor as well? Any help or hardware is appreciated.... For the list, I'm willing to make copies of manuals or software. Disks I can mail no problem, manuals will require you to pay my copying costs (all manuals are a significant number of pages). Also, I'd need ZIP codes or country to estimate shipping. One last note ... This is not super high priority for me (in fact, I haven't gotten back to everyone from my last round of stuff :-( ), so don't expect lightning speed out of me on copies. If you can wait, I'd much rather scan these (600dpi), and mail a CD-ROM. The software is as follows: - APC III System Checking Diskette v5.0 - MS-DOS System Diskette v2.11 Revision 1 - MS-DOS System Diskette v2.11 Revision 3 - MS-DOS System Diskette v2.11 Revision 4 - Digital Research Logo ((c) 1984, "REV 00") - MS GW-BASIC 2.01 - MS GW-BASIC Demonstration Diskette Version 1.0 - SLE* GW-BASIC and Utility - SLE MS-DOS System Diskette - Digital Research DR Draw (1983) - Digital research DR Draw Fonts (1983) - MS MASM 1.25 - MS-DOS BIOS Listing (5 disks, 1985) - GSX System Diskette (1984) rev 01 - GSX Drivers Diskette (1984) rev 00 - GSX System Diskette (1984) rev 03 - GSX Drivers Diskette (1984) rev 01 * - SLE=Software Library Expander -- Allowed NEC APC III to run "more programs". Part hardware, part software. Maybe some sort of PC-emulator?? Manuals are (I have multiple copies of most of these): - MS-DOS User's Guide - GW-BASIC User's Guide - MS-DOS Guide for the SLE - GW-BASIC Guide for the SLE - MASM Manual, Vol. 1 and Vol. 2 - DR Logo User's Reference Guide - Beginner's Guide to DR Logo - MS-DOS Programmer's Reference Manual (Includes supplement for APC III) - DR Draw User's Guide - GSX-86 User's Guide Thanks, Rich B. From teoz at neo.rr.com Mon Feb 2 18:42:24 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:05 2005 Subject: Vhmrrxutkvbziepg References: Message-ID: <00e001c3e9ee$97d060d0$0500fea9@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vintage Computer Festival" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Monday, February 02, 2004 6:58 PM Subject: Re: Vhmrrxutkvbziepg > I write exclusively on my computer and my writing has stayed the same > (i.e. nigh impeccable!) > Must be nice, I find that when your word processor has a spell checker and grammer checker you start to rely on it (you get lazy) while if your using paper and pen you tend to be more careful (and if your publishing something to be read by your peers your really carefull). Maybe its just me, I dont know. While everything you post on the net stays around for quite a while the probablility of somebody finding and actually reading something I posted here on how to get an MFM drive working on a P200 PC when they are looking up a patent I filed for process control are not very high. too many hits on a search engine are as bad as none at all. > But how can you determine if the content is good if you can't decipher the > text because the grammer is so poor? Most mistakes are obvious typos or wordprocessor screwups based on typos ("I walked down to the see" instead of sea), while sloppy it doesnt keep you from deciphering the content. If your reading an article that was aimed at people with a higher level of education then yourself your going to have problems even without grammar errors (some legal documents and medical reports come to mind). Then you have people who like to weave a string of grammatically correct worthless crap like 90% of the dotcom era websites did for what the company actually produced. I have read quite a few manuals for process controllers coming from japan that showed you what you needed to do to make then function, but were a pain to read because of the translation somebody did from japanese to english. > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival From dvcorbin at optonline.net Mon Feb 2 18:57:03 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:05 2005 Subject: Vhmrrxutkvbziepg In-Reply-To: <00e001c3e9ee$97d060d0$0500fea9@game> Message-ID: Teo, Please see.... http://www.webster.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=you%27re Thank you. -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Teo Zenios Sent: Monday, February 02, 2004 7:42 PM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: Vhmrrxutkvbziepg ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vintage Computer Festival" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Monday, February 02, 2004 6:58 PM Subject: Re: Vhmrrxutkvbziepg > I write exclusively on my computer and my writing has stayed the same > (i.e. nigh impeccable!) > Must be nice, I find that when your word processor has a spell checker and grammer checker you start to rely on it (you get lazy) while if your using paper and pen you tend to be more careful (and if your publishing something to be read by your peers your really carefull). Maybe its just me, I dont know. While everything you post on the net stays around for quite a while the probablility of somebody finding and actually reading something I posted here on how to get an MFM drive working on a P200 PC when they are looking up a patent I filed for process control are not very high. too many hits on a search engine are as bad as none at all. > But how can you determine if the content is good if you can't decipher the > text because the grammer is so poor? Most mistakes are obvious typos or wordprocessor screwups based on typos ("I walked down to the see" instead of sea), while sloppy it doesnt keep you from deciphering the content. If your reading an article that was aimed at people with a higher level of education then yourself your going to have problems even without grammar errors (some legal documents and medical reports come to mind). Then you have people who like to weave a string of grammatically correct worthless crap like 90% of the dotcom era websites did for what the company actually produced. I have read quite a few manuals for process controllers coming from japan that showed you what you needed to do to make then function, but were a pain to read because of the translation somebody did from japanese to english. > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival From jack.rubin at ameritech.net Mon Feb 2 19:04:46 2004 From: jack.rubin at ameritech.net (Jack Rubin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:05 2005 Subject: SCELBAL, Scelbi books Message-ID: <001301c3e9f1$b787db30$1f6fa8c0@eths.k12.il.us> Chuck - hold the phone - I've got the following SCELBI books in easily scannable form: - 8008 Editor Program - 8008 Assembler - Machine Language Programming for the 8008 - SCELBAL - SCELBI 8H User's Manual - 8080 Editor Program I also have the 6 issues of the SCELBAL update already in .pdf form. All this stuff is slowly finding it's way to Jim Kearney's new, improved, enlarged and expanded super-brite 8008 archive, along with some more info on Nat Wadsworth and the SCELBI computer. If there is a particular title you need access to, let me know and I can move it up in the queue; otherwise it will be a few months before this all gets to Jim If you want to scan "Galaxy Game for the 8008/8080", "First Book of Games for the 8008/8080", and "Monitor for 8080" that would be great! I hope that a heart-to-heart with the head librarian would get you the books - never heard of a library that didn't cull non-used material to make room for hot new stuff on the x86! Jack From allain at panix.com Mon Feb 2 19:18:15 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:05 2005 Subject: Vhmrrxutkvbziepg References: <00e001c3e9ee$97d060d0$0500fea9@game> Message-ID: <018501c3e9f3$9bd5a320$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> I try to develop images of who people are in this little community based on what they write. When there's a lot of typos, grammar problems, voltage/current problems, attitude problems, honesty problems, sanity problems, or whatever I tend to try to guess more about the person. A lot of people on this list get judged to be 14 year-olds trying to save the bux* on computers by picking up free hardware. There's a core group of about ten or twenty people that get my utmost respect**, and the rest tend to keep quiet until something comes up where their comment can Add value. Thanks for that. John A. *intentional. **note: not necessarily judged by volume of a persons messages. From vcf at siconic.com Mon Feb 2 19:26:04 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:05 2005 Subject: OT ramblings about lameness and stupidity (was Re: Vhmrrxutkvbziepg) In-Reply-To: <00e001c3e9ee$97d060d0$0500fea9@game> Message-ID: On Mon, 2 Feb 2004, Teo Zenios wrote: > > But how can you determine if the content is good if you can't decipher the > > text because the grammer is so poor? > > Most mistakes are obvious typos or wordprocessor screwups based on typos ("I > walked down to the see" instead of sea), while sloppy it doesnt keep you Yeah, but for us curmudgeons it's annoying and distracting. > from deciphering the content. If your reading an article that was aimed at > people with a higher level of education then yourself your going to have > problems even without grammar errors (some legal documents and medical > reports come to mind). Then you have people who like to weave a string of Well, first of all, if you can read and you know the basic rules of grammar, spelling, etc., then the rules apply to anything you read. So even if you don't comprehend the content of the words, you do know how to read them. Then you use a dictionary to try to determine just what it is you're reading. Second, the example you use is specious. If a legal or medical document is written with poor grammar and spelling, not only will it be less comprehensible, it'll be considered reprehensible by the greater practice! But more importantly, there's a major difference between a complicated and highly technical piece of writing and a poorly written document. The two don't compare. > grammatically correct worthless crap like 90% of the dotcom era websites did > for what the company actually produced. I have read quite a few manuals for > process controllers coming from japan that showed you what you needed to do > to make then function, but were a pain to read because of the translation > somebody did from japanese to english. Ah yes, Engrish. A totally different topic altogether. But at any rate, this proves the point: the grammar was probably poor (or nonsensical), and perhaps there was a spelling error or two or more (or a homonym), therefore clouding the intent of the meaning. See what we're getting at now? A misspelled word here and some poor grammar there does not compare to full blown Engrish, I would agree, but both are equally annoying. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Feb 2 19:29:45 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:05 2005 Subject: NEC APC III, anyone have one? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040202202945.008d16c0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Hi Rich, I have an orginal model APC with the 8" floppy drives that looks like this . It has the built-in color monitor. Do you have anything for it? BTW it's one HEAVY brute! I'd hate to have to pay to ship it! Joe At 07:29 PM 2/2/04 -0500, you wrote: >Hello all, > >I just received a large lot of NEC APC III software and docs... Naturally, >this means I need an NEC APC III to go with it :-). I know it's a >not-quite-PC-compatible. Anyone have one they'd be willing to part with? I >assume I'd need the keyboard and system unit. Is the video output some sort >of standard, or would I need the monitor as well? Any help or hardware is >appreciated.... > >For the list, I'm willing to make copies of manuals or software. Disks I >can mail no problem, manuals will require you to pay my copying costs (all >manuals are a significant number of pages). Also, I'd need ZIP codes or >country to estimate shipping. One last note ... This is not super high >priority for me (in fact, I haven't gotten back to everyone from my last >round of stuff :-( ), so don't expect lightning speed out of me on copies. >If you can wait, I'd much rather scan these (600dpi), and mail a CD-ROM. > >The software is as follows: > >- APC III System Checking Diskette v5.0 >- MS-DOS System Diskette v2.11 Revision 1 >- MS-DOS System Diskette v2.11 Revision 3 >- MS-DOS System Diskette v2.11 Revision 4 >- Digital Research Logo ((c) 1984, "REV 00") >- MS GW-BASIC 2.01 >- MS GW-BASIC Demonstration Diskette Version 1.0 >- SLE* GW-BASIC and Utility >- SLE MS-DOS System Diskette >- Digital Research DR Draw (1983) >- Digital research DR Draw Fonts (1983) >- MS MASM 1.25 >- MS-DOS BIOS Listing (5 disks, 1985) >- GSX System Diskette (1984) rev 01 >- GSX Drivers Diskette (1984) rev 00 >- GSX System Diskette (1984) rev 03 >- GSX Drivers Diskette (1984) rev 01 > >* - SLE=Software Library Expander -- Allowed NEC APC III to run "more >programs". Part hardware, part software. Maybe some sort of PC-emulator?? > >Manuals are (I have multiple copies of most of these): > >- MS-DOS User's Guide >- GW-BASIC User's Guide >- MS-DOS Guide for the SLE >- GW-BASIC Guide for the SLE >- MASM Manual, Vol. 1 and Vol. 2 >- DR Logo User's Reference Guide >- Beginner's Guide to DR Logo >- MS-DOS Programmer's Reference Manual (Includes supplement for APC III) >- DR Draw User's Guide >- GSX-86 User's Guide > >Thanks, >Rich B. > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Feb 2 19:34:32 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:05 2005 Subject: SCELBAL, Scelbi books In-Reply-To: <001301c3e9f1$b787db30$1f6fa8c0@eths.k12.il.us> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040202203432.008298b0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Jack, I have the following books if you want to scan them and add them to the collection. Sclebi's 8080 Galaxy Game Scelbi's 8080 Standard Editor Scelbi's 8080 Standard Assembler Joe At 07:04 PM 2/2/04 -0600, you wrote: >Chuck - hold the phone - I've got the following SCELBI books in easily >scannable form: > >- 8008 Editor Program >- 8008 Assembler >- Machine Language Programming for the 8008 >- SCELBAL >- SCELBI 8H User's Manual >- 8080 Editor Program > >I also have the 6 issues of the SCELBAL update already in .pdf form. > >All this stuff is slowly finding it's way to Jim Kearney's new, >improved, enlarged and expanded super-brite 8008 archive, along with >some more info on Nat Wadsworth and the SCELBI computer. If there is a >particular title you need access to, let me know and I can move it up in >the queue; otherwise it will be a few months before this all gets to Jim > >If you want to scan "Galaxy Game for the 8008/8080", "First Book of >Games for the >8008/8080", and "Monitor for 8080" that would be great! > >I hope that a heart-to-heart with the head librarian would get you the >books - never heard of a library that didn't cull non-used material to >make room for hot new stuff on the x86! > >Jack > > From teoz at neo.rr.com Mon Feb 2 20:05:32 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:05 2005 Subject: OT ramblings about lameness and stupidity (was Re: Vhmrrxutkvbziepg) References: Message-ID: <015301c3e9fa$3adec680$0500fea9@game> OK, I get the point. I must be more tolerant to a small amount of grammar mistakes then most people here. Its time to get some hot chocolate and dig out the old grammar book for some remedial grammar before you guys come and lynch me. Peace. From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Mon Feb 2 19:48:38 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:05 2005 Subject: OT ramblings about lameness and stupidity (was Re: Vhmrrxutkvbziepg) In-Reply-To: <00e001c3e9ee$97d060d0$0500fea9@game> References: <00e001c3e9ee$97d060d0$0500fea9@game> Message-ID: <200402030219.VAA12519@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> ["Teo Zenios" ] > I find that when your word processor has a spell checker and grammer > checker you start to rely on it (you get lazy) It may not be entirely coincidental that I _don't_ use spelling/grammar checking software. :-) > Most mistakes are obvious typos or wordprocessor screwups based on > typos ("I walked down to the see" instead of sea), while sloppy it > doesnt keep you from deciphering the content. Me, no. But English is my mother tongue. I have recently been trying to learn Norwegian, mostly by chatting online with a Norwegian. This is relevant because every now and then the Norwegian will typo, or use a regional idiom, and even when the intended word is one I know in its bokm?l form, I will usually be baffled until the typo is corrected or the corresponding standard form provided. Thus, I can say from personal experience that yes, when you're working in a language that you're not fully fluent in, such mistakes can not only impair but sometimes outright prevent comprehension. Now, if we all were native anglophones, or at least had near-native fluency in English, this probably wouldn't matter. But I don't for a moment believe that's true. [Vintage Computer Festival ] > A misspelled word here and some poor grammar there does not compare > to full blown Engrish, I would agree, but both are equally annoying. Well, for things such as product manuals, no, there really is no excuse. But for something like a mailing list message, well, when I see Engrish over a signature like "Hidei Nishimura", I usually cut the poor poster some slack, provided the meaning is indeed clear. Mistakes arising from someone of some other native tongue trying to use my language and not quite having the expertise to do it right I can forgive, especially since I'm generally far worse in the poster's native tongue. But the sorts of mistakes are very different: non-native English will have the wrong preposition somewhere, or will conjugate a verb wrong, or some such, rather than (say) confusing "your" and "you're". (For example, that Norwegian I mentioned above has been known to come out with things like "Well, she (yes, she, despite that Margit persistently told me it looked more like a man)" (vs "despite Margit persistently telling me...") - not at all the sort of mistake produced by sloppiness in a native anglophone.) /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From aw288 at osfn.org Mon Feb 2 21:48:01 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:05 2005 Subject: Vacuum tube logic thing Message-ID: I'll give this list a shot a something meat I have had for a while - maybe I can get a nice trade. I have a big logic trainer that I would like to move on. It is pretty neat and unique for three reasons: 1) It is based on vacuum tubes. Inside are a number of 12AX7oids that do the work. I think this dates to the very late 1950s. 2) The logic is really odd. It is binary, but the logic levels are not voltage levels, but phases. Hell of a way to run a railroad, in my book. 3) Its Japanese. Yes, Japanese. Apparently part of an early minicomputer project that came out of Japan called Parametron. So what I have is a really odd duck - a Parametron LT-2E, with power supply, spares kit (with spare tubes!), and the reamins of a manual. It is a pretty big desktop unit, but I think I can ship it FedEx ground in a couple of boxes (from 10512). As of now it is untested, but tomorrow I think I might look into powering it up. There is some paint flakage and a little corrosion in the aluminum body, but nothing to scream about. So I am fishing for a trade. A good trade, as I know this thing is worth some real money. What do I like? Big is good, old is good, IBM or Univac is good, but I am open to ideas. I can trade up or down with cash, if we can not quite equal things out. Try me. I'll try to get some pictures shot tomorrow. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From jpl15 at panix.com Mon Feb 2 22:06:45 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:05 2005 Subject: Vacuum tube logic thing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 2 Feb 2004, William Donzelli wrote: > I'll give this list a shot a something meat I have had for a while - > maybe I can get a nice trade. > > I have a big logic trainer that I would like to move on. It is pretty > neat and unique for three reasons: > > 1) It is based on vacuum tubes. Inside are a number of 12AX7oids that do > the work. I think this dates to the very late 1950s. > > 2) The logic is really odd. It is binary, but the logic levels are not > voltage levels, but phases. Hell of a way to run a railroad, in my book. > > 3) Its Japanese. Yes, Japanese. Apparently part of an early minicomputer > project that came out of Japan called Parametron. http://www.thocp.net/hardware/parametron.htm http://citeseer.nj.nec.com/328517.html and a few others, two in Japanese and one that requires some kind of password. Google be yo fren'! Quite the fascinating device - "based on the EDSAC" so I imagine it's quite phase-dependent... the ENIAC had 10 seperate clock/buss lines, IIRC. There's also a transistor-like device bearing the name, and a Paramistor. Based on Josephson-junction technology. Cheers John From donm at cts.com Mon Feb 2 22:52:57 2004 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:05 2005 Subject: NEC APC III, anyone have one? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040202202945.008d16c0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 2 Feb 2004, Joe R. wrote: > Hi Rich, > > I have an orginal model APC with the 8" floppy drives that looks like > this . It has > the built-in color monitor. Do you have anything for it? BTW it's one HEAVY > brute! I'd hate to have to pay to ship it! I doubt that much/any of what Rich has would be useful on the APC. What are you looking for, Joe? As you know, I also have one but cannot provide anything in the way of manuals, etc. However, I do have a fair collection of software for it. CP/M-86, TurboDos, MSDOS 2.11, p-System. Any of that help? - don > > At 07:29 PM 2/2/04 -0500, you wrote: > >Hello all, > > > >I just received a large lot of NEC APC III software and docs... Naturally, > >this means I need an NEC APC III to go with it :-). I know it's a From doc at mdrconsult.com Mon Feb 2 23:29:59 2004 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:05 2005 Subject: Vhmrrxutkvbziepg In-Reply-To: <00e001c3e9ee$97d060d0$0500fea9@game> References: <00e001c3e9ee$97d060d0$0500fea9@game> Message-ID: <024FD826-560A-11D8-9C6B-000A95A6B97A@mdrconsult.com> On Feb 2, 2004, at 6:42 PM, Teo Zenios wrote: > > Must be nice, I find that when your word processor has a spell checker > and > grammer checker you start to rely on it (you get lazy) while if your > using > paper and pen you tend to be more careful (and if your publishing > something > to be read by your peers your really carefull). *AAAAAAAAGGGGGHHHHHHHH!!!!!!* A Troll, it's a troll! Run, for your sanity! Dude, if I found it possible to take that sentence seriously, or as anything but a troll, I believe that my head would explode. Doc From pcw at mesanet.com Mon Feb 2 23:39:41 2004 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:05 2005 Subject: Vacuum tube logic thing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 2 Feb 2004, William Donzelli wrote: > I'll give this list a shot a something meat I have had for a while - > maybe I can get a nice trade. > > I have a big logic trainer that I would like to move on. It is pretty > neat and unique for three reasons: > > 1) It is based on vacuum tubes. Inside are a number of 12AX7oids that do > the work. I think this dates to the very late 1950s. > > 2) The logic is really odd. It is binary, but the logic levels are not > voltage levels, but phases. Hell of a way to run a railroad, in my book. > > 3) Its Japanese. Yes, Japanese. Apparently part of an early minicomputer > project that came out of Japan called Parametron. > > So what I have is a really odd duck - a Parametron LT-2E, with power > supply, spares kit (with spare tubes!), and the reamins of a manual. It > is a pretty big desktop unit, but I think I can ship it FedEx ground in a > couple of boxes (from 10512). > > As of now it is untested, but tomorrow I think I might look into powering > it up. There is some paint flakage and a little corrosion in the aluminum > body, but nothing to scream about. > > So I am fishing for a trade. A good trade, as I know this thing is worth > some real money. What do I like? Big is good, old is good, IBM or Univac is > good, but I am open to ideas. I can trade up or down with cash, if we can > not quite equal things out. > > Try me. > > I'll try to get some pictures shot tomorrow. > > William Donzelli > aw288@osfn.org > "Digital Computer Design Fundamentals" - Chu - 1962 Has a full section (about 4 pages) on Parametron logic, here are a couple little excerpts: "The Parametron, developed by Goto of Japan, is a parametric phase-locked subharmonic oscillator (PLO). As described in chapter 6, a PLO is a resonant circuit with a reactive element varying periodically at a pump frequency fp; the resonant circuit produces a parametric oscillation with a frequency fo which is the second subharmonic of the pump frequency (or fp = 2fo). The parametric subharmonic oscillation has a remarkable property in that the oscillation has two stable phases which differ by 180 degrees as shown in figure 6-35. These two stable modes of oscillation represent the binary states; hence a PLO is a binary storage element..." "The parametric oscillation is not a new phenomenom. Its application to the digital computer was independently conceived by both the late Von Neumann ant Goto of Japan at nearly the same time (1954) . The Parametron has been used in several digital computers in Japan. " Peter Wallace From ggs at shiresoft.com Mon Feb 2 23:42:41 2004 From: ggs at shiresoft.com (Guy Sotomayor) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:05 2005 Subject: Need RT-11 on RX02 In-Reply-To: <5D085742-554C-11D8-9459-000A95A6B97A@mdrconsult.com> References: <5.2.1.1.2.20040129182853.03644ec0@mail.comcast.net> <1075569703.2797.5.camel@nazgul.shiresoft.com> <1075700707.2817.40.camel@nazgul.shiresoft.com> <5D085742-554C-11D8-9459-000A95A6B97A@mdrconsult.com> Message-ID: <1075786960.2141.9.camel@nazgul.shiresoft.com> On Sun, 2004-02-01 at 22:52, Doc Shipley wrote: > On Feb 1, 2004, at 11:45 PM, Guy Sotomayor wrote: > > Well, it took almost the entire weekend to get the floppy images over > > to > > my laptop. I had to get 2 9 track tape drives working (at the same > > time). > > > > I used the following to get the floppy images: > > dd if=/dev/rrx2 of=/tmp/rt11.n > > > > n was the # of the diskette > > If I recall correctly, the RX02 is a 256-byte block. Maybe you need > to add "ibs=256 obs=256" to the dd command. Yea, I had figured that out after I posted. I used: dd if=/dev/rrx2 of=/tmp/rt11.n bs=256 Wouldn't ya know after I created a new tape on the 11, I go to read it on my PC and my SCSI 9-track tape drive has died. It won't power up. :-( I smelled something funny in my office when I got home today but couldn't quite figure it out (the drive was "on" but in standby). I guess I know what that smell was. Go figure. A tape drive that is > 20 years old works great. A newer one (what are the dates on a TSZ07?) dies. I guess the old adage "They don't make 'em like they used to" still holds. > > Also, if you have a Linux or *BSD system you can attach to the /45's > serial console, you can image the RT-11 diskettes straight to the PC > disk with vtserver's built-in "copy" function. I've used it to > duplicate a bootable BRUSYS floppy on the 11/84. That's how I got the original RL02 image onto the 11/45. I like tapes because then I don't have to move equipment around (and it's quite a bit faster than 9600bps over a serial line). -- TTFN - Guy From doc at mdrconsult.com Tue Feb 3 00:13:06 2004 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:06 2005 Subject: Need RT-11 on RX02 In-Reply-To: <1075786960.2141.9.camel@nazgul.shiresoft.com> References: <5.2.1.1.2.20040129182853.03644ec0@mail.comcast.net> <1075569703.2797.5.camel@nazgul.shiresoft.com> <1075700707.2817.40.camel@nazgul.shiresoft.com> <5D085742-554C-11D8-9459-000A95A6B97A@mdrconsult.com> <1075786960.2141.9.camel@nazgul.shiresoft.com> Message-ID: <088686D0-5610-11D8-9C6B-000A95A6B97A@mdrconsult.com> On Feb 2, 2004, at 11:42 PM, Guy Sotomayor wrote: > On Sun, 2004-02-01 at 22:52, Doc Shipley wrote: >> >> If I recall correctly, the RX02 is a 256-byte block. Maybe you >> need >> to add "ibs=256 obs=256" to the dd command. > > Yea, I had figured that out after I posted. I used: > dd if=/dev/rrx2 of=/tmp/rt11.n bs=256 > > Wouldn't ya know after I created a new tape on the 11, I go to read it > on my PC and my SCSI 9-track tape drive has died. It won't power up. > :-( I smelled something funny in my office when I got home today but > couldn't quite figure it out (the drive was "on" but in standby). I > guess I know what that smell was. Oh, man! I hate it when that happens! I gotta strip the RX02 I've been using. It squeals like a little girl at power-up, and I want to catch that before it doesn't squeal anymore.... > Go figure. A tape drive that is > 20 years old works great. A newer > one (what are the dates on a TSZ07?) dies. I guess the old adage "They > don't make 'em like they used to" still holds. I love my TU80. When it starts moving tape, I feel like I'm in the Bat Cave or some stuff. The TZ07 just doesn't carry the same thrill. >> Also, if you have a Linux or *BSD system you can attach to the >> /45's >> serial console, you can image the RT-11 diskettes straight to the PC >> disk with vtserver's built-in "copy" function. I've used it to >> duplicate a bootable BRUSYS floppy on the 11/84. > > That's how I got the original RL02 image onto the 11/45. I like tapes > because then I don't have to move equipment around (and it's quite a > bit > faster than 9600bps over a serial line). That is a true fact. Loading 2.11BSD over a serial line was an exercise in napping. :) Doc From thehsm at hotmail.com Mon Feb 2 17:20:53 2004 From: thehsm at hotmail.com (Herman Schnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:06 2005 Subject: 1631D question Message-ID: Hello Bdale, I have a 1631D connected to a 9153C hard drive. When I try to format the harddrive, the 1631D timesout before the format is completed. I was wondering if you a copy of the service manual because I want to increase the timeout value in the ROMS so I can format the HD. What CPU is the 1631 running on? Another option is to use the HAL pin on the cpu while the hard drive is format and release it before it is done. Thanks for your help. Bye, Herman From ggs at shiresoft.com Tue Feb 3 01:20:52 2004 From: ggs at shiresoft.com (Guy Sotomayor) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:06 2005 Subject: Need RT-11 on RX02 In-Reply-To: <088686D0-5610-11D8-9C6B-000A95A6B97A@mdrconsult.com> References: <5.2.1.1.2.20040129182853.03644ec0@mail.comcast.net> <1075569703.2797.5.camel@nazgul.shiresoft.com> <1075700707.2817.40.camel@nazgul.shiresoft.com> <5D085742-554C-11D8-9459-000A95A6B97A@mdrconsult.com> <1075786960.2141.9.camel@nazgul.shiresoft.com> <088686D0-5610-11D8-9C6B-000A95A6B97A@mdrconsult.com> Message-ID: <1075792851.2954.19.camel@nazgul.shiresoft.com> On Mon, 2004-02-02 at 22:13, Doc Shipley wrote: > > Wouldn't ya know after I created a new tape on the 11, I go to read it > > on my PC and my SCSI 9-track tape drive has died. It won't power up. > > :-( I smelled something funny in my office when I got home today but > > couldn't quite figure it out (the drive was "on" but in standby). I > > guess I know what that smell was. > > Oh, man! I hate it when that happens! Yea, it really sucks! > > Go figure. A tape drive that is > 20 years old works great. A newer > > one (what are the dates on a TSZ07?) dies. I guess the old adage "They > > don't make 'em like they used to" still holds. > > I love my TU80. When it starts moving tape, I feel like I'm in the > Bat Cave or some stuff. The TZ07 just doesn't carry the same thrill. > Yea, the TU80 is pretty nice (mainly cause it works)! I have a TS11, a couple of Kennedy (9600?) drives in storage. They'll be *way* cooler because they have the tape vertical (so it looks like a proper tape drive). I also have a TE16 that's slated for my 11/70 but since it's a massbus tape drive, I can't do anything with it until I have the 70 running. It will be *way* cool because it's a vacuum column drive. My machine room (garage) when I have the 11/45 powered up (3 H960 racks each with fans in the top + all of the other fans in the 11/45, BA11, etc) is quite noisy. The 11/70 will be deafening (5 H960's) once it's working. > > That is a true fact. Loading 2.11BSD over a serial line was an > exercise in napping. :) Just loading a single RL02 image was about 6 hours! -- TTFN - Guy From klemens.krause at informatik.uni-stuttgart.de Tue Feb 3 03:47:10 2004 From: klemens.krause at informatik.uni-stuttgart.de (Klemens Krause) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:06 2005 Subject: SCELBAL, Scelbi books References: <5.2.1.1.1.20040201184037.01d2fdf0@wilma.widomaker.com> Message-ID: <401F6E1E.A324D344@informatik.uni-stuttgart.de> I would be highly interested to get a listing or a hexdump (or octal dump) of scelbal in any form. I have a running 8008-system and I'm looking for software for that system. If you would make available a readable listing of scelbal I would type it in. Best would be an assembler listing, but better than nothing would be an hex- or octal-dump. http://computermuseum.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/dev/emuf08/emuf08_1.html Klemens Chuck Swiger schrieb: > > Gang - I finally found an official serialized copy of "SCELBAL A high Level > Language > for the 8008", plus Wadsworth "Machine Language Programming for the 8008", > plus Scelbi "Galaxy Game for the 8008/8080", "First Book of Games for the > 8008/8080", > "Monitor for 8080" and "Editor for 8080". ... > --Chuck -- ---------------------------------------------- Klemens Krause Universitaet Stuttgart / Inst. f. Softwaretechnologie Universitaetsstr. 38 / 70569 Stuttgart Tel.: 0711/7816 341 From r.lasbury at ntlworld.com Tue Feb 3 05:16:24 2004 From: r.lasbury at ntlworld.com (Robin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:06 2005 Subject: Help wanted with an Open VMS installation Message-ID: <000001c3ea47$2b970140$0200a8c0@Gamma> Can anyone please help... I am trying to install OpenVMS 7.3-1 for the first time onto a DEC 3000 Model 600, I have checked the compatibility of the hardware and the console firmware is the latest version however the installation process hangs with the message "%SWAPPER-I-SYSDISK, checking status of system disk" Has anyone experienced this before. All help advice and suggestions gratefully received Robin _____ << ella for Spam Control >> has removed 1811 Spam messages and set aside 239 Newsletters for me You can use it too - and it's FREE! www.ellaforspam.com From waltje at pdp11.nl Tue Feb 3 06:00:02 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:06 2005 Subject: gcc cross compiler for PDP-11 In-Reply-To: <200401312133.i0VLXT224153@mwave.heeltoe.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 31 Jan 2004, Brad Parker wrote: > concerning gcc/binuils & pdp-11 > > - gcc's (3.3.2) backend generates "unix" style asm > - gas wants "gas" style asm and doesn't like the "unix" style asm > - the pdp-11 gcc maintainer knows this and has some fixes which he's > going to release soon GCC version 3.x generates code that, um, sucks. For most C-based programming, there is absolutely no reason to "upgrade" beyond the older (V2.95.3) release, which works fine with the pdp11 backend. > You can't simply cross compile the "as" from 2.11BSD because it's > written in assembler. (but it sure looks like it was C at point) No, UNIX as was always written in assembler, although they did use some tools to clean it up later on. Later (non-PDP11) versions were in C, obviously. --f From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Tue Feb 3 07:34:44 2004 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:06 2005 Subject: gcc cross compiler for PDP-11 In-Reply-To: References: <200401312133.i0VLXT224153@mwave.heeltoe.com> Message-ID: <20040203133444.GE25748@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Tue, Feb 03, 2004 at 01:00:02PM +0100, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > GCC version 3.x generates code that, um, sucks. For most C-based > programming, there is absolutely no reason to "upgrade" beyond the > older (V2.95.3) release, which works fine with the pdp11 backend. GCC 2.95 has serious problems corss compiling across the LP32 / LP64 boundary. I can say this out of my own experience as a NetBSD hacker. > > You can't simply cross compile the "as" from 2.11BSD because it's > > written in assembler. (but it sure looks like it was C at point) > No, UNIX as was always written in assembler, although they did use > some tools to clean it up later on. Later (non-PDP11) versions were > in C, obviously. Well. Maybe C was modeled after that assembler code. ;-) -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From thompson at new.rr.com Tue Feb 3 07:34:59 2004 From: thompson at new.rr.com (Paul Thompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:06 2005 Subject: Help wanted with an Open VMS installation In-Reply-To: <000001c3ea47$2b970140$0200a8c0@Gamma> Message-ID: On Tue, 3 Feb 2004, Robin wrote: > Can anyone please help... > > hangs with the message "%SWAPPER-I-SYSDISK, checking status of system Does pressing CTRL-T show an image name or anything incrementing? -- From jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to Tue Feb 3 08:51:05 2004 From: jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:06 2005 Subject: Need RT-11 on RX02 References: <5.2.1.1.2.20040129182853.03644ec0@mail.comcast.net> <1075569703.2797.5.camel@nazgul.shiresoft.com> <1075700707.2817.40.camel@nazgul.shiresoft.com> <5D085742-554C-11D8-9459-000A95A6B97A@mdrconsult.com> <1075786960.2141.9.camel@nazgul.shiresoft.com> Message-ID: <401FB559.692ED857@compsys.to> >Guy Sotomayor wrote: > Wouldn't ya know after I created a new tape on the 11, I go to read it > on my PC and my SCSI 9-track tape drive has died. It won't power up. > :-( I smelled something funny in my office when I got home today but > couldn't quite figure it out (the drive was "on" but in standby). I > guess I know what that smell was. > Go figure. A tape drive that is > 20 years old works great. A newer > one (what are the dates on a TSZ07?) dies. I guess the old adage "They > don't make 'em like they used to" still holds. Jerome Fine replies: I realize that a SCSI host adapter for both a Qbus and a Unibus system is still expensive. However, over the past decade, I have found it to be the best investment I ever made. In my case, I found that a removable media drive was also part of the solution. Over 10 years ago, I sold a dual Sony SMO S-501 system to a customer who want to make backups of about 1500 RX02 floppies. The solution being used at the time was to copy 20 RX02 floppies to RL02 packs. There were already almost 50 * RL02 packs in use and an additional 30 * RL02 packs were anticipated. The cost of those extra 30 packs was larger than the dual Sony SMO S-501 drives. The reason for a dual set-up was that each RL02 pack had 2 tape backups as well, one of which was always offsite. With the Sony drives, 3 media (295 MBytes on each side) were sufficient to hold all 80 * RL02 images. Another 6 media held 2 backup copies. All 9 SMO media were about the size of half a loaf of bread as compared with over 5 times the volume for a single RL02. Having dual Sony SMO S-501 drives allowed a copy of each media to be done in about an hour during lunch. In one day, all 5 sides with files could be copied and verified as opposed to over a week if over 80 RL02 packs were copied to tapes. A long time later, I also acquired an Adaptec AHA-2940AU on a Pentium III system along with a few Sony SMO S-501 drives and a lot (over 100) of SMO media. Now I use the SMO media as a backup on both systems along with the ability to transfer files between any real DEC PDP-11 system and a PC. On the PC, I run Ersatz-11 and RT-11 under Windows 98 SE. I caution that I am fortunate to have the "Full" (Commercial) version of Ersatz-11, however, PUTR is able to handle copies of RT-11 partitions. The key point is that the SMO media still seem ideal even at just 295 MBytes a side for file transfer between a PC and a real DEC PDP-11. A bit of an admission - I now use a DVD for backup on the PC and have 15 * SMO S-501 images on each DVD. How times have changed. And the 15 * SMO S-501 images are usually kept as files on a 40 GByte hard drive. > > Also, if you have a Linux or *BSD system you can attach to the /45's > > serial console, you can image the RT-11 diskettes straight to the PC > > disk with vtserver's built-in "copy" function. I've used it to > > duplicate a bootable BRUSYS floppy on the 11/84. > That's how I got the original RL02 image onto the 11/45. I like tapes > because then I don't have to move equipment around (and it's quite a bit > faster than 9600bps over a serial line). About 15 years ago, I was asked to transfer the files from a 240 MByte hard drive on a DEC PDP-11/73 system which included a 9 track tape drive. The target system was a 486 running Unix which did not have a tape drive. This was a one time transfer, so the time was not critical. I took a while at 9600 baud using Kermit, but eventually it was done. Fortunately not all the files needed to be transferred. While tapes are great in some cases, I find that I prefer the Sony drives. Lacking that, the serial transfer was a simple solution. Coming in the next day to find the transfer almost complete overnight was a big advantage. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From rickb at bensene.com Tue Feb 3 09:38:19 2004 From: rickb at bensene.com (Rick Bensene) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:06 2005 Subject: Vacuum tube logic thing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000301c3ea6b$bfb31250$030aa8c0@bensene.com> While used in a number of early Japanese computer, the Parametron was also used in a desktop electronic calculator: http://oldcalculatormuseum.com/w-aleph-0.html Not a tremendous amount is known about this machine, but it definitely used Parametron logic, and was produced in some volume. The company that made it, Oi Electric, in Japan, is still in business, and has one of the machines on display in their office. This calculator was Oi Electric's only foray into the calculator marketplace. Rick Bensene The Old Calculator Web Museum http://oldcalculatormuseum.com From oldcomp at cox.net Tue Feb 3 10:10:48 2004 From: oldcomp at cox.net (Bryan Blackburn) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:06 2005 Subject: SCELBAL, Scelbi books: AVAILABLE on CD + more In-Reply-To: <401F6E1E.A324D344@informatik.uni-stuttgart.de> References: <5.2.1.1.1.20040201184037.01d2fdf0@wilma.widomaker.com> <401F6E1E.A324D344@informatik.uni-stuttgart.de> Message-ID: <401FC808.9030507@cox.net> Hi all, I have a bunch of Scelbi titles and other various 8008 related books scanned and available, all in pdf format on CD. Here is a list: - The Intel 8008 Manual (two versions: Jun & Nov '72) - RE Mark-8 Construction Article from Radio Electronics (from my originals) - Microsystems International 8008 Applications Manual (Very good info and monitor program, complete with assembler/disassembler listing!) - Mark-8 (Micro-8) Newsletter, 18 issues - The Computer Hobbyist Newsletter, 10 issues, plus flyer - Scelbi 8008 Monitor Routines - Scelbi Galaxy Game for the 8008/8080 (Star Trek game) - Scelbi Machine Language Programming for the 8008 - Scelbi SCELBAL for the 8008/8080 (BASIC Language for the 8008/8080) - The Digital Group "Packet #1" (Mods and improvements & software for the Mark-8) - RE Construction article for the original TV Typewriter - Misc. software listings and other Misc. documents, mostly mine - Photos of my Mark-8, just because there was room on the disk :) Some of this info is available elsewhere on the web, if you can find it, but I have scanned much of it from my own originals. The disk totals about 550 Meg. To the best of my knowledge, other than perhaps the Intel manuals, all the copyright holders of this stuff are long gone. I will make this available to list members on cheap CD's (the only kind I use, I'm afraid). for the cost making, packaging, and mailing them... I think $4.00-5.00 should cover U.S. members via 1st class mail, and $7.00-8.00 for international shipping via Global Priority. If list members would like a copy, send an email to: bryan( at )bkblackburn( dot )com, so I can get a head count. -Bryan See my Mark-8 at http://members.cox.net/oldcomp/my_collection.htm Klemens Krause wrote: > I would be highly interested to get a listing or a hexdump (or octal dump) > of scelbal in any form. > I have a running 8008-system and I'm looking for software for that system. > If you would make available a readable listing of scelbal I would type it > in. Best would be an assembler listing, but better than nothing would be > an hex- or octal-dump. > From jimmydevice at hotmail.com Tue Feb 3 07:27:27 2004 From: jimmydevice at hotmail.com (Jim Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:06 2005 Subject: gcc cross compiler for PDP-11 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <401FA1BF.7030701@hotmail.com> Fred N. van Kempen wrote: >On Sat, 31 Jan 2004, Brad Parker wrote: > > > >>concerning gcc/binuils & pdp-11 >> >>- gcc's (3.3.2) backend generates "unix" style asm >>- gas wants "gas" style asm and doesn't like the "unix" style asm >>- the pdp-11 gcc maintainer knows this and has some fixes which he's >> going to release soon >> >> > >GCC version 3.x generates code that, um, sucks. For most C-based >programming, there is absolutely no reason to "upgrade" beyond the >older (V2.95.3) release, which works fine with the pdp11 backend. > > > >>You can't simply cross compile the "as" from 2.11BSD because it's >>written in assembler. (but it sure looks like it was C at point) >> >> >No, UNIX as was always written in assembler, although they did use >some tools to clean it up later on. Later (non-PDP11) versions were >in C, obviously. > >--f > > > > Are you sure? I was working in UNIX in 1980 and the 11/23 port was definitely C. Maybe ASM earlier? It must have been a narrow window, The machine at OMSI, the 11/45 was running RSTS. Some of the guys, Barry White and Jim Bacchus were booting the maching with some "new" OS late at night., this was in 1972.. UNIX? Jim Davis. From rfeldman at kfa-inc.com Tue Feb 3 08:42:12 2004 From: rfeldman at kfa-inc.com (Robert A. Feldman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:06 2005 Subject: HP Jet Direct Message-ID: <000001c3ea63$e89756c0$2401a8c0@KFA17> I'm just getting caught up with a backlog of email, so this post might be a bit late. Anyway, I have an HP Jet Direct EX (J2382B), complete with cables, power supply, manuals, and disks, free for postage (about 5 pounds, from Chicago). I also have an HP internal Jet Direct card (J2341A) for a LaserJet 4, with manuals and disks, also free for postage (3-4 pounds). Since I get the list in digest form, reply directly to me at raFeldmanhotmail.com if you are interested. Bob From tony at encoreelectronics.com Tue Feb 3 09:38:22 2004 From: tony at encoreelectronics.com (Tony Karavidas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:06 2005 Subject: HP 64000 hard disk structure ??? Message-ID: Did you write this and have you had any luck? Tony P.Demus - DEMUS DATENSYSTEME hpd at demus.de Mon Dec 8 17:10:43 CST 2003 * Previous message: 10342 manuals and softwasre * Next message: HP Apollo DN5500 disk and sysboot * Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] Hello ! i'm trying to decode the disc structure of a HP7912 hard disk attached to a HP 64000 uC System. build in 1985! yeaaah I managed to copy the HP7912 sectors on a MO-disc SCSI on series hp 9000 / 300. i read in the MO disc image on a PC. now i have a 54MB image file. has anybody some infos about structure and tables of the directory of the HP64000 disc format ?? it's not HFS (HPUX) and NOT LIF.... i decoded the directory entries for name and date and size of file. now there are two 16bit words describing first and last page used for storing data. i have no idea how this 16bit value is belonging to a sector number. any hints ?? thanks peter -- DEMUS DATENSYSTEME GmbH . Steinbergstr. 24 D-30559 Hannover . Germany Tel +49-511-95448-0 . Fax +49-511-95448-44 http://www.demus.de . mailto:info at demus.de From tony at encoreelectronics.com Tue Feb 3 10:34:24 2004 From: tony at encoreelectronics.com (Tony Karavidas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:06 2005 Subject: HP 64000 Message-ID: Hi, Do you still have that box of s/w and documentation? I'm a big 64000 fan and have been looking for stuff for years... Regards, Tony From ggs at shiresoft.com Tue Feb 3 11:08:22 2004 From: ggs at shiresoft.com (Guy Sotomayor) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:06 2005 Subject: gcc cross compiler for PDP-11 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1075828101.2141.31.camel@nazgul.shiresoft.com> On Tue, 2004-02-03 at 04:00, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > > You can't simply cross compile the "as" from 2.11BSD because it's > > written in assembler. (but it sure looks like it was C at point) > No, UNIX as was always written in assembler, although they did use > some tools to clean it up later on. Later (non-PDP11) versions were > in C, obviously. Sorry, wrong. Unix was first written in assembler, then re-written in BCPL and re-written again in C. I know that by v6 (1975) it was mostly C with assembly for some of the things that couldn't or wouldn't work well in C. I don't know exactly when the transition to C happened but I think that by the time it escaped from Bell Labs (v5) it was C. -- TTFN - Guy From waltje at pdp11.nl Tue Feb 3 11:15:13 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:06 2005 Subject: KXT11 (was: Re: looking for a few items.) In-Reply-To: <031201c3e5ce$d07d4480$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: On Wed, 28 Jan 2004, John Allain wrote: > Interesting. > > The field guide lists the M7676 as if it was a single board > T11, perhaps like Megan's "PDP laptop" from the VCFe. > Anybody ever seen a M7676 / KXT11 ? Yes, that sounds like the Falcon SBC, aka the KXT11, which indeed is a single board computer based on the T11 chipset. I have one, too. Cheers, Fred -- Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist Visit the VAXlab Project at http://VAXlab.pdp11.nl/ Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Mountain View, CA, USA From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Tue Feb 3 11:14:06 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:06 2005 Subject: Vacuum tube logic thing References: Message-ID: <401FD6DE.8050007@jetnet.ab.ca> John Lawson wrote: >>3) Its Japanese. Yes, Japanese. Apparently part of an early minicomputer >>project that came out of Japan called Parametron. > http://www.thocp.net/hardware/parametron.htm > http://citeseer.nj.nec.com/328517.html Well for more information you can play with EARLY Japanese computers here. http://www.comp.ae.keio.ac.jp/pub/simulator/index.html Ben. From uban at ubanproductions.com Tue Feb 3 11:27:01 2004 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:06 2005 Subject: KXT11 (was: Re: looking for a few items.) In-Reply-To: References: <031201c3e5ce$d07d4480$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20040203112535.035db8e8@mail.ubanproductions.com> At 06:15 PM 2/3/2004 +0100, you wrote: >On Wed, 28 Jan 2004, John Allain wrote: > > > Interesting. > > > > The field guide lists the M7676 as if it was a single board > > T11, perhaps like Megan's "PDP laptop" from the VCFe. > > Anybody ever seen a M7676 / KXT11 ? >Yes, that sounds like the Falcon SBC, aka the KXT11, which >indeed is a single board computer based on the T11 chipset. > >I have one, too. Interesting. What exactly do you mean by a SBC in this case? Is it standalone, or does it plug into a Unibus or Qbus? Do you have a picture that you could post? --tnx --tom From waltje at pdp11.nl Tue Feb 3 11:27:06 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:06 2005 Subject: gcc cross compiler for PDP-11 In-Reply-To: <1075828101.2141.31.camel@nazgul.shiresoft.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 3 Feb 2004, Guy Sotomayor wrote: > Sorry, wrong. Unix was first written in assembler, then re-written in > BCPL and re-written again in C. I know that by v6 (1975) it was mostly > C with assembly for some of the things that couldn't or wouldn't work > well in C. Or which they just didnt care about. They changed it in 1973-1974, to C, but left out fun stuff like the assembler, Basic, troff and others. V6 was C based as above, V4 and V5 were intermediates. > I don't know exactly when the transition to C happened but I think that > by the time it escaped from Bell Labs (v5) it was C. Yes, the change was between 4th and 5th ed., with the 6th ed. being the "cleaner" one, culminating in a much more portable V7. --f From waltje at pdp11.nl Tue Feb 3 11:32:59 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:06 2005 Subject: KXT11 (was: Re: looking for a few items.) In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20040203112535.035db8e8@mail.ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 3 Feb 2004, Tom Uban wrote: > Interesting. What exactly do you mean by a SBC in this case? Is > it standalone, or does it plug into a Unibus or Qbus? Do you have > a picture that you could post? It is a tiny board (well, just a dual Qbus card) which has the Qbus card-edge fingers, the usual power connectors (either from the bus backplane, or direct connections) and the usual set of I/O for a single-board thinger: cpu, ram, rom, serial i/o, slots for custom memory, and so on. i have pics, but they're, uhh, offline :( I'll grab it tonight and take some new ones, ok? I assume DEC wanted OEM's to use this board for their micro- controller needs. --f From waltje at pdp11.nl Tue Feb 3 12:00:12 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:06 2005 Subject: Ultrix on an 11/730? In-Reply-To: <200401291131.i0TBVAC27702@mwave.heeltoe.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 29 Jan 2004, Brad Parker wrote: > Can anyone tell me if there is a version of Ultrix which will boot on an > 11/730? Any version should work. > And if so, can I grab media files off the net somewhere? Yeah, but unless you know how to fiddle with tape formats, and DEC's internal (setld) format, you probably want to set it up to just net-boot and net-install, rather doing a tape thinger. --f From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Tue Feb 3 12:40:32 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:06 2005 Subject: 'melted' tape roller Message-ID: Hi folks, I've seen this phenomenon on the likes of printers etc but I've never seen it on a tape drive. Basically the rubber that used to surround the wheel that controls FF/REW/Play functions on the tapedeck in my newly acquired Sharp MZ80B has melted to a sticky black compound that's run down the housing and gummed up the tape wheels. Pix at http://www.wowrarelook.co.uk/DSCF5821.JPG (244k) front of housing showing icky stuff http://www.wowrarelook.co.uk/DSCF5812.JPG (27k) control wheel Note shiny surfaces where there shouldn't be shiny surfaces :) I'd assume that the tape mechanism was a standard one but the question is, can I still get the part seen in DSCF5812.JPG since it appears that's all that's at fault? Cheers as ever. -- Adrian/Witchy Binary Dinosaurs www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From paulpenn at knology.net Tue Feb 3 13:21:22 2004 From: paulpenn at knology.net (Paul Pennington) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:06 2005 Subject: SCELBAL, Scelbi books: AVAILABLE on CD + more References: <5.2.1.1.1.20040201184037.01d2fdf0@wilma.widomaker.com><401F6E1E.A324D344@informatik.uni-stuttgart.de> <401FC808.9030507@cox.net> Message-ID: <005f01c3ea8a$e8a1a540$6401a8c0@knology.net> "Bryan Blackburn" wrote: > I have a bunch of Scelbi titles and other various 8008 related books > scanned and available, all in pdf format on CD. Here is a list: > > - RE Mark-8 Construction Article from Radio Electronics (from my originals) > - RE Construction article for the original TV Typewriter Bryan; Cool. One question: are the Mark-8 and TV Typewriter articles from Radio-Electronics copies of the magazine articles or the construction booklet which had to be requested (or both)? Thanks, Paul Pennington Augusta, Georgia From vcf at siconic.com Tue Feb 3 13:18:55 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:06 2005 Subject: 'melted' tape roller In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 3 Feb 2004, Witchy wrote: > I've seen this phenomenon on the likes of printers etc but I've never seen > it on a tape drive. Basically the rubber that used to surround the wheel > that controls FF/REW/Play functions on the tapedeck in my newly acquired > Sharp MZ80B has melted to a sticky black compound that's run down the > housing and gummed up the tape wheels. Pretty common. We've discussed this at length at least a couple times before. It might be worth a while poking through the archives (er, well, Google, since the archives are in a sem-permanent statis at this point). If you can't find a similar tape mechanism then you may want to make a new one. Tony Duell had some good suggestions for this. And I guess as far as long term storage, keep your tape drives in a cooler environment with, what, at least 50% humidity? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Tue Feb 3 13:22:19 2004 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:06 2005 Subject: 5.25 disks/programs available Message-ID: <177.251fb5e8.2d514eeb@aol.com> I scavenged some old disks from someone that was cleaning up their office after moving. Listed below is some items someone might want. Otherwise, I'll just format and keep them for extras. They all look like new and seem to be unused. system disks for Dell system200 pc. DOS/gwbasic/utilities borland turboC 1986 5disk set Microtek USD-III 1.0 5 disk set x6800 assembler something called matrix desktop. 8 disk set Turbo C++ 10 disk set procomm plus 2 disk set MS mouse and paintbrush, several copies of each MSDOS 4.01 from TRC techology research. Has the old style ms logo on them. 6 disk set MS windows 3.0 from z-nix company 5 disk set pay for shipping and they can be yours From lbickley at bickleywest.com Tue Feb 3 13:23:11 2004 From: lbickley at bickleywest.com (Lyle Bickley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:06 2005 Subject: 'melted' tape roller In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200402031123.11304.lbickley@bickleywest.com> Just so you don't feel alone, lots of HP tape drive capstan rubber sleeves that are over twenty years old show the same "attribute" of "melting" - I've repaired several of the critters. I suggest you find some quality rubber tubing which matches as closley as possible the specs. of the original rubber and use a good rubber/metal glue - usually black and very "sticky" (essential for HP high speed drives). Lyle On Tuesday 03 February 2004 10:40, Witchy wrote: > Hi folks, > > I've seen this phenomenon on the likes of printers etc but I've never seen > it on a tape drive. Basically the rubber that used to surround the wheel > that controls FF/REW/Play functions on the tapedeck in my newly acquired > Sharp MZ80B has melted to a sticky black compound that's run down the > housing and gummed up the tape wheels. > > Pix at > > http://www.wowrarelook.co.uk/DSCF5821.JPG (244k) front of housing showing > icky stuff > http://www.wowrarelook.co.uk/DSCF5812.JPG (27k) control wheel > > Note shiny surfaces where there shouldn't be shiny surfaces :) > > I'd assume that the tape mechanism was a standard one but the question is, > can I still get the part seen in DSCF5812.JPG since it appears that's all > that's at fault? > > Cheers as ever. > > -- > Adrian/Witchy > Binary Dinosaurs > www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer > museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( -- Lyle Bickley Bickley Consulting West Inc. http://bickleywest.com "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero" From cb at mythtech.net Tue Feb 3 14:08:58 2004 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:06 2005 Subject: Restoring old floppies to usable state Message-ID: Will a magnetic bulk eraser restore a floppy to good status? I have some floppies that are reporting bad sectors when formatted. I've tried bulk erasing them, and a format afterwards reports no bad sectors. Is this actually working, or am I just getting lucky, and those bad sectors will return shortly. These are DSDD 3.5's which are getting a little harder to come by. So if bulk erasing works, then I'll do that and salvage them. -chris From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue Feb 3 14:31:28 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:06 2005 Subject: preserving CD/DVD Message-ID: <01c601c3ea94$b3912880$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Since people here have talked about archiving vintage computer data to CD/DVD, thought these two links might be of interest: Mostly common sense, but there are some good tips as well. One page summary: http://www.itl.nist.gov/div895/carefordisc/onepage.pdf The entire document: http://www.itl.nist.gov/div895/carefordisc/CDandDVDCareandHandlingGuide.pdf Just a quick fyi for those interested. --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Tue Feb 3 14:53:33 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:06 2005 Subject: 'melted' tape roller In-Reply-To: <200402031123.11304.lbickley@bickleywest.com> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Lyle Bickley > Sent: 03 February 2004 19:23 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: 'melted' tape roller > > Just so you don't feel alone, lots of HP tape drive capstan > rubber sleeves that are over twenty years old show the same > "attribute" of "melting" - I've repaired several of the critters. > > I suggest you find some quality rubber tubing which matches > as closley as possible the specs. of the original rubber and > use a good rubber/metal glue - usually black and very > "sticky" (essential for HP high speed drives). Ah, OK. I'd not thought of replacing the rubber with tubing. I'd gone down the route of 'damn it was a thick square faced continuous rubber band...where am I going to get THOSE from' :) Sellam, yes, storage isn't a problem here. I only got the machine last week so I don't know where it had been stored before....I'll have a google when I get a spare few mins. I remember the discussion but not the outcome..... Cheers -- Adrian/Witchy Binary Dinosaurs www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From dundas at caltech.edu Tue Feb 3 15:22:51 2004 From: dundas at caltech.edu (John A. Dundas III) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:06 2005 Subject: gcc cross compiler for PDP-11 In-Reply-To: <401FA1BF.7030701@hotmail.com> References: <401FA1BF.7030701@hotmail.com> Message-ID: At 5:27 AM -0800 2/3/04, Jim Davis wrote: >Fred N. van Kempen wrote: >Are you sure? I was working in UNIX in 1980 and the 11/23 port was >definitely C. >Maybe ASM earlier? It must have been a narrow window, The machine at OMSI, >the 11/45 was running RSTS. Some of the guys, Barry White and Jim Bacchus >were booting the maching with some "new" OS late at night., this >was in 1972.. UNIX? >Jim Davis. Hey, I used that machine. I was a student at Lewis & Clark at the time. I was on Tek 4010 over dial-up (300 baud maybe) from campus doing some programming for the EE and Music departments. John From dwight.elvey at amd.com Tue Feb 3 15:24:21 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:06 2005 Subject: Restoring old floppies to usable state Message-ID: <200402032124.NAA02636@clulw009.amd.com> Hi Chris The answer is absolutely maybe. It really depends on the original cause. Try running some test with a known good drive. You didn't state what you were running on? Things like Nortons disk doctor have good serface test. Dwight >From: chris > >Will a magnetic bulk eraser restore a floppy to good status? > >I have some floppies that are reporting bad sectors when formatted. I've >tried bulk erasing them, and a format afterwards reports no bad sectors. >Is this actually working, or am I just getting lucky, and those bad >sectors will return shortly. > >These are DSDD 3.5's which are getting a little harder to come by. So if >bulk erasing works, then I'll do that and salvage them. > >-chris > > > From waltje at pdp11.nl Tue Feb 3 15:53:59 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:06 2005 Subject: Ultrix on an 11/730? In-Reply-To: <200401292015.PAA04961@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: On Thu, 29 Jan 2004, der Mouse wrote: > > It may help to realise that "net" is Russian for "no", so NetBSD > > really means "not BSD". Although I disagree with Mike's explanation, he is right in the sense that netBSD (like openBSD, freeBSD et al) is "not really UNIX". They are not. BSD (as in, BSD 2.X, 3.X, 4.X UNIX) and its specialty trees (Reno, Tahoe, Net/1 and Net/2) are "real UNIX" code systems, which required a full AT&T/Western Electric source code license, and which were derived directly from V7 by the folks of CSRG at UC Berkeley. BSD/386, BSDI, {net|free|open}BSD all are BSD 4.X code derivatives which had been rewritten in such a way (see the whole BSD 4.4 UNIX vs. AT&T lawsuit minutes) that allowed them to be freely distributed to people without a written license from AT&T (the famous "seven files" were re-implemented.) As such, these systems are no longer considered "real UNIX", but, rather, "free UNIX-like" systems. License-technically speaking, one needs their code to pass a full suite of qualification tests ran by X/Open (formerly OSF, USL et al) before one can call that code "UNIX". > NetBSD is not BSD in the strict sense of having come from the CSRG at > Berkeley - but then, nothing is that is today simultaneously (a) > bootable, (b) open source, and (c) legal to run for those without > licenses that are expensive (if obtainable at all). Almost correct. It is not BSD (obviously, as they were never released by CSRG) but not even UNIX. It being freely available, expensive and whatnot is totally irrelevant. --f From waltje at pdp11.nl Tue Feb 3 15:55:30 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:06 2005 Subject: Ultrix on an 11/730? In-Reply-To: <20040129221537.6d8865ae.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: On Thu, 29 Jan 2004, Jochen Kunz wrote: > Old BSD releases can be downloaded for free from the TUHS archive since > Caldera released the old UNIX stuff under a BSD licence. At least the > 4.3BSD-Quasijarus stuff (an extended 4.3BSD-Tahoe from M. Sokolov) is > bootable on cold hardware. 4.2BSD and 4.3BSD-Reno seem to be complete > too. Although Mike's "Q" is not *technically* BSD because it was not released by CSRG, he does fully comply with their entire history of decision- making, and therefore can be considered "more BSD" than most, if not all, of the current freeware stuff. --f From oldcomp at cox.net Tue Feb 3 17:03:24 2004 From: oldcomp at cox.net (Bryan Blackburn) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:07 2005 Subject: SCELBAL, Scelbi books: AVAILABLE on CD + more In-Reply-To: <005f01c3ea8a$e8a1a540$6401a8c0@knology.net> References: <5.2.1.1.1.20040201184037.01d2fdf0@wilma.widomaker.com><401F6E1E.A324D344@informatik.uni-stuttgart.de> <401FC808.9030507@cox.net> <005f01c3ea8a$e8a1a540$6401a8c0@knology.net> Message-ID: <402028BC.4@cox.net> Both. For both. Article, plans, circuit board layouts... Oh yeah. We got it! Can you you find all the parts? :) -Bryan Paul Pennington wrote: > Cool. One question: are the Mark-8 and TV Typewriter articles from > Radio-Electronics copies of the magazine articles or the construction > booklet which had to be requested (or both)? > > Thanks, > > Paul Pennington > Augusta, Georgia > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Feb 3 17:19:05 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:07 2005 Subject: 'melted' tape roller In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040203181905.008cabe0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 06:40 PM 2/3/04 +0000, you wrote: >Hi folks, > >I've seen this phenomenon on the likes of printers etc but I've never seen >it on a tape drive. Then you've never owned a HP tape drive! It's a common problem on them. The first trick is to find a tape drive with a good roller and measure it's size. A lot of people make new (small) rollers out of model airplane silicon rubber fuel line. I've used rubber bushings from electrical plugs for the bigger sizes such as the HP-85. I've also build up the aluminium rollers with layers of heatshrink tubing. HS works but it wears fast and it's hard to get it exactly round. Joe Basically the rubber that used to surround the wheel >that controls FF/REW/Play functions on the tapedeck in my newly acquired >Sharp MZ80B has melted to a sticky black compound that's run down the >housing and gummed up the tape wheels. > >Pix at > >http://www.wowrarelook.co.uk/DSCF5821.JPG (244k) front of housing showing >icky stuff >http://www.wowrarelook.co.uk/DSCF5812.JPG (27k) control wheel > >Note shiny surfaces where there shouldn't be shiny surfaces :) > >I'd assume that the tape mechanism was a standard one but the question is, >can I still get the part seen in DSCF5812.JPG since it appears that's all >that's at fault? > >Cheers as ever. > >-- >Adrian/Witchy >Binary Dinosaurs >www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum >www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Feb 3 17:22:11 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:07 2005 Subject: 'melted' tape roller In-Reply-To: <200402031123.11304.lbickley@bickleywest.com> References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040203182211.008ce100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 11:23 AM 2/3/04 -0800, you wrote: >Just so you don't feel alone, lots of HP tape drive capstan rubber sleeves >that are over twenty years old show the same "attribute" of "melting" - I've >repaired several of the critters. > >I suggest you find some quality rubber tubing which matches as closley as >possible the specs. of the original rubber and use a good rubber/metal glue - >usually black and very "sticky" (essential for HP high speed drives). I use super glue and it works fine. Just use it very sparingly. If you use too much it will get on the outside of the roller and make it slick. I use a drop that's smaller than the head of a pin and let it wick into the joint. Joe > >Lyle > >On Tuesday 03 February 2004 10:40, Witchy wrote: >> Hi folks, >> >> I've seen this phenomenon on the likes of printers etc but I've never seen >> it on a tape drive. Basically the rubber that used to surround the wheel >> that controls FF/REW/Play functions on the tapedeck in my newly acquired >> Sharp MZ80B has melted to a sticky black compound that's run down the >> housing and gummed up the tape wheels. >> >> Pix at >> >> http://www.wowrarelook.co.uk/DSCF5821.JPG (244k) front of housing showing >> icky stuff >> http://www.wowrarelook.co.uk/DSCF5812.JPG (27k) control wheel >> >> Note shiny surfaces where there shouldn't be shiny surfaces :) >> >> I'd assume that the tape mechanism was a standard one but the question is, >> can I still get the part seen in DSCF5812.JPG since it appears that's all >> that's at fault? >> >> Cheers as ever. >> >> -- >> Adrian/Witchy >> Binary Dinosaurs >> www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer >> museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( > >-- >Lyle Bickley >Bickley Consulting West Inc. >http://bickleywest.com >"Black holes are where God is dividing by zero" > > From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Tue Feb 3 17:19:56 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:07 2005 Subject: Ultrix on an 11/730? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200402032330.SAA28371@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > [...] netBSD (like openBSD, freeBSD et al) is "not really UNIX". > They are not. > [...legalisms...] This depends on what "really UNIX" is. There are many plausible meanings for it, and I see no particular reason to prefer yours over the far more common one, which is difficult to define but amounts to, more or less, "anything philosophically and APIly close to the V7 core". Eric Raymond wrote a piece about the SCO-vs-IBM flap, which is mostly neither here nor there, but it does have a worthwhile discussion of just what "Unix" means. http://www.opensource.org/sco-vs-ibm.html#id2791292 should take you straight to it. In his terms, you seem to want the word to mean some ill-defined cross between a genetic Unix and a trademark Unix. However, that is not how the word is normally used; in the usual sense of the term, {Net,Open,Free}BSD are Unix, as are Linux and a large variety of closed-source operating systems (some of which are genetic and/or trademark Unices as well). In any case, the whole debate is of little value. The remark which started it all off was more a political statement than a practical statement; while I both disagree with his political views on this matter and defend his right to hold them, I see no real point in discussing them further on-list. Thus, I'm shutting up unless someone can actually come up with something new to say on the subject. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Tue Feb 3 18:15:13 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:07 2005 Subject: 'melted' tape roller In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040203181905.008cabe0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Joe R. > Sent: 03 February 2004 23:19 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: 'melted' tape roller > > The first trick is to find a tape drive with a good roller > and measure it's size. A lot of people make new (small) OK :) Anyone out there got a Sharp MZ80B they're willing to dismantle for me? 7 screws off the back of the monitor/tape drive housing and 5 screws to remove the mechanism after some careful cable unplugging, and watch for the monitor flyback transformer.... > sizes such as the HP-85. I've also build up the aluminium > rollers with layers of heatshrink tubing. HS works but it > wears fast and it's hard to get it exactly round. Right. Thinking cap on for me then....I was hoping for a spare part, but I guess something homegrown is more satisfying. Cheers! -- Adrian/Witchy Binary Dinosaurs www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Feb 3 17:57:12 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:07 2005 Subject: Need RT-11 on RX02 In-Reply-To: <088686D0-5610-11D8-9C6B-000A95A6B97A@mdrconsult.com> from "Doc Shipley" at Feb 3, 4 00:13:06 am Message-ID: > I gotta strip the RX02 I've been using. It squeals like a little > girl at power-up, and I want to catch that before it doesn't squeal > anymore.... Most of the time when an RX01/2 makes nasty noises, it's dry bearings on the spindle motor. You have to remve the front panel (screws from behind, swing up the controller card) and the the fan housing. Then unplug the mains harness to the drive motors (at the back, 3 pin socket to each drive, 15 pin plug into the PSU), unplug the drive wiring from the read/write board. Then undo the screws holding the drives in place (it can help to remove the PSU and/or the read/write card), and drop the drive out. Take the baseplate off the drive, loosen the nuts holding the motor down, and remove the belt. Then take off the nuts and ease the motor out. Remove the motor fan and pulley (the latter always has a setscrew, the former may do, or may be a push-fit with a springclip). Prise (pry?) the plastic covers off the ends of the motor bearings, and put a drop of ligth oil on each bearing. Then put it all back together. It probably took me longer to type this than it does to do the repair! -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Feb 3 18:05:45 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:07 2005 Subject: 'melted' tape roller In-Reply-To: from "Witchy" at Feb 3, 4 06:40:32 pm Message-ID: > I've seen this phenomenon on the likes of printers etc but I've never seen > it on a tape drive. Basically the rubber that used to surround the wheel > that controls FF/REW/Play functions on the tapedeck in my newly acquired > Sharp MZ80B has melted to a sticky black compound that's run down the > housing and gummed up the tape wheels. You might find an 'idler tyre' for a VCR would work if you can get one the right size. You want to go to a _good_ VCR spares/repair place and see if they can match it up. I don't think an O-ring is very suitable here, you want something with a rectangluar cross-section. I believe classic car restorers use a 2-part 'rubber' compound to make thigns like pedal rubbers, seals, etc. I wonder if that could be used to make rollers, etc. Making the moulds would be fairly easy in a reasonable home workshop. Anyone know if said compound is available in the UK? I've got a roller to rebuild sometime. The platten roller for a Versatec V80 electrostatic plotter. It's turned to goo. This is a full-size platten, in 2 parts, with differential gearing between them (to keep the paper running straight!). Should be 'interesting' to repair... -tony From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Tue Feb 3 18:24:39 2004 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:07 2005 Subject: I have no willpower... I need drivers, too. Message-ID: <200402031624390475.11DDA40D@192.168.42.129> I thought for sure I'd left my computer collecting days far behind when my interest in amateur radio re-flared a few years back. Then I came across one heck of a piece of history that I could not resist. Specifically: An original Compaq 'Luggable.' Green-screen, 8-bit motherboard, two full-height 360K FDD's, the works. Found at a local thrift store, in pretty good shape (if a bit dirty) and still functional, for the stunning price of $18 with tax. I couldn't say no. The sight of the thing sitting on the floor, gathering dust and negligent kicks from other customers, was too much. God only knows what I'm going to do with it... Although I do have a nice IBM 8-bit MFM drive controller I'm going to stick in there, along with a hard drive. BTW, the thing had a fully-loaded AST SixPack Plus board in it. If this requires any drivers to work, I would appreciate knowing about it (and knowing where to find said drivers). Thanks much. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech do/t c=o=m "If Salvador Dali had owned a computer, would it have been equipped with surreal ports?" From waltje at pdp11.nl Tue Feb 3 18:23:38 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:07 2005 Subject: Ultrix on an 11/730? In-Reply-To: <000401c3e6ea$cdfa1400$1a02a8c0@starship1> Message-ID: On Thu, 29 Jan 2004, Curt vendel wrote: > Ultrix was written for MIPS processors wasn't it??? No, for the PDP-11 (V7M with DEC PDP-11 specifics plus 2.8BSD addons), then for the VAX series, then for the MIPS-based systems. --f From waltje at pdp11.nl Tue Feb 3 18:27:32 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:07 2005 Subject: Ultrix on an 11/730? In-Reply-To: <001101c3e6f0$2450cb00$1a02a8c0@starship1> Message-ID: On Fri, 30 Jan 2004, Curt vendel wrote: > Ah! Sorry, I didn't get into Dec Vax stuff until 94' and didn't start > working with Ultrix till 95' I remember we got into the lab I think it > was a Dec Infoserver, their first webserver and it was running Ultrix as I > recall, I really liked the way Ultrix worked, much better then Solaris and > SunOS which I has also just gotten started using around 94' as well. > Actually, I think the infoserver was running OSF Unix??? Hmmmmm, brain > ain't what it used to be :-) InfoServers were boot-load servers that ran a very rudimentary system called ESS, which in turn was based on DEC's VAXeln runtime kernel for embedded systems. It was designed to efficiently offer disk (cd-rom and harddisk) and tape devices to the network, and used DEC protocols called LAD (LASTport/disk) and LASTport/tape for access to those "shared devices". --f From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Feb 3 18:31:58 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:07 2005 Subject: I have no willpower... I need drivers, too. In-Reply-To: <200402031624390475.11DDA40D@192.168.42.129> from "Bruce Lane" at Feb 03, 2004 04:24:39 PM Message-ID: <200402040031.i140Vw5e025643@onyx.spiritone.com> > I thought for sure I'd left my computer collecting days far > behind when my interest in amateur radio re-flared a few years back. > Then I came across one heck of a piece of history that I could not resist. Bruce, you have my condolences! Be smart, work at resisting, just toss it on eBay. And NO, I DO NOT want it! Zane From waltje at pdp11.nl Tue Feb 3 18:34:43 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:07 2005 Subject: Ultrix on an 11/730? In-Reply-To: <200402032330.SAA28371@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: On Tue, 3 Feb 2004, der Mouse wrote: > This depends on what "really UNIX" is. That is defined by law, these days, since the name, and adherence to its merits, was trademarked and eventually handed over to the XOpen guys for watching over. --f From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Tue Feb 3 18:40:09 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:07 2005 Subject: Ultrix on an 11/730? Message-ID: <0402040040.AA02222@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Some time ago I wrote on this list: : First there was Ultrix-11 : for PDP-11 (DEC's stolen V7 UNIX). It has been brought to my attention that the above has been interpreted differently from my intended meaning. I did not mean stolen in the negative legal/moral definition of this term (as in robbing someone of something), I meant it in the much more common programmers' vernacular definition of "stolen" as in "I stole this routine from...", without any negative meaning whatsoever. I apologise for the unintentional alternate meaning and its negative implications. MS From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Feb 3 18:46:18 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:07 2005 Subject: I have no willpower... I need drivers, too. In-Reply-To: <200402031624390475.11DDA40D@192.168.42.129> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040203194618.008c0bc0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Hi Bruce, I used to have a Six Pack a LONG time ago and IIRC there wheren't "drivers" for it but it did have some utility programs. There was a RAM disk program, pair of utilites to set the real time clock and to read it and set the software clock, and a print buffer program. There were probably more but that's the ones that I remember. I don't know if I still have the programs but I'll look. Joe At 04:24 PM 2/3/04 -0800, you wrote: > I thought for sure I'd left my computer collecting days far behind when my interest in amateur radio re-flared a few years back. Then I came across one heck of a piece of history that I could not resist. > > Specifically: An original Compaq 'Luggable.' Green-screen, 8-bit motherboard, two full-height 360K FDD's, the works. Found at a local thrift store, in pretty good shape (if a bit dirty) and still functional, for the stunning price of $18 with tax. > > I couldn't say no. The sight of the thing sitting on the floor, gathering dust and negligent kicks from other customers, was too much. God only knows what I'm going to do with it... Although I do have a nice IBM 8-bit MFM drive controller I'm going to stick in there, along with a hard drive. > > BTW, the thing had a fully-loaded AST SixPack Plus board in it. If this requires any drivers to work, I would appreciate knowing about it (and knowing where to find said drivers). > > Thanks much. > > >-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- >Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, >Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com >kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech do/t c=o=m >"If Salvador Dali had owned a computer, would it have been equipped with surreal ports?" > > > From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Tue Feb 3 18:58:54 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:07 2005 Subject: Ultrix on an 11/730? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200402040110.UAA29010@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> >> This depends on what "really UNIX" is. > That is defined by law, these days, since the name [is trademarked]. Trademark law is relevant only in the course of business in relevant matters. It has no particular relevance to informal casual conversation, such as this mailing list. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Feb 3 19:21:26 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:07 2005 Subject: I have no willpower... I need drivers, too. In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040203194618.008c0bc0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20040203194618.008c0bc0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <20040203171218.J47126@newshell.lmi.net> On Tue, 3 Feb 2004, Joe R. wrote: > I used to have a Six Pack a LONG time ago and IIRC there wheren't > "drivers" for it but it did have some utility programs. There was a RAM > disk program, pair of utilites to set the real time clock and to read it > and set the software clock, and a print buffer program. There were probably > more but that's the ones that I remember. I don't know if I still have the > programs but I'll look. The print buffer and ramdisk software were generic to ANY memory, and were provided youst to be able to call the board a "SIX FUNCTION!" board, instead of "four function". There were two essential programs needed for the [8 bit] AST Six Pack: ASTCLOCK.COM reads the clock on the Six Pack and conveys the clock calendar info to the OS. Otherwise, DOS thinks that it is January 1, 1980, unless you manually enter a date and/or time. SETCLOCK.COM permits setting the time in the clock calendar of the Six Pack. 'course, if you are real quick in changing batteries BEFORE they go dead, then you could simply keep the time running. There was also an ASTCLOCK.C, and at least one or two of the assembly language books provided info on how to roll your own. They should be relatively easy to find on the web, if you look for ASTCLOCK. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Feb 3 19:25:33 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:07 2005 Subject: I have no willpower... I need drivers, too. In-Reply-To: <200402031624390475.11DDA40D@192.168.42.129> References: <200402031624390475.11DDA40D@192.168.42.129> Message-ID: <20040203172327.Y47126@newshell.lmi.net> On Tue, 3 Feb 2004, Bruce Lane wrote: > I thought for sure I'd left my computer collecting days far behind > when my interest in amateur radio re-flared a few years back. Then I > came across one heck of a piece of history that I could not resist. ... you try to leave, and they suck you back in, ... > Specifically: An original Compaq 'Luggable.' Green-screen, 8-bit > motherboard, two full-height 360K FDD's, the works. Found at a local > thrift store, in pretty good shape (if a bit dirty) and still > functional, for the stunning price of $18 with tax. That's all that it takes to get you back? > I couldn't say no. The sight of the thing sitting on the > floor, gathering dust and negligent kicks from other customers, was too > much. God only knows what I'm going to do with it... Although I do have > a nice IBM 8-bit MFM drive controller I'm going to stick in there, along > with a hard drive. Careful of the power rating. Mine was NOT happy with a 4096. > BTW, the thing had a fully-loaded AST SixPack Plus board in it. If > this requires any drivers to work, I would appreciate knowing about it > (and knowing where to find said drivers). ASTCLOCK.COM, SETCLOCK.COM Google? -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From doc at mdrconsult.com Tue Feb 3 19:35:17 2004 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:07 2005 Subject: Need RT-11 on RX02 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <634A661E-56B2-11D8-96A3-000A95A6B97A@mdrconsult.com> On Feb 3, 2004, at 5:57 PM, Tony Duell wrote: >> I gotta strip the RX02 I've been using. It squeals like a little >> girl at power-up, and I want to catch that before it doesn't squeal >> anymore.... > > Most of the time when an RX01/2 makes nasty noises, it's dry bearings > on > the spindle motor. That's my take on it, from the sound. > It probably took me longer to type this than it does to do the repair! Thanks, Tony! It's going to be the weekend before I can do it, but I'm printing your post as I type this. More than any other brand, it seems that DEC stuff is dead simple to service if you know how, and impossible if you're playing by ear. Doc From donm at cts.com Tue Feb 3 19:50:51 2004 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:07 2005 Subject: I have no willpower... I need drivers, too. In-Reply-To: <200402031624390475.11DDA40D@192.168.42.129> Message-ID: On Tue, 3 Feb 2004, Bruce Lane wrote: > I thought for sure I'd left my computer collecting days far > behind when my interest in amateur radio re-flared a few years > back. Then I came across one heck of a piece of history that I > could not resist. > > Specifically: An original Compaq 'Luggable.' Green-screen, > 8-bit motherboard, two full-height 360K FDD's, the works. Found > at a local thrift store, in pretty good shape (if a bit dirty) > and still functional, for the stunning price of $18 with tax. > > I couldn't say no. The sight of the thing sitting > on the floor, gathering dust and negligent kicks from other > customers, was too much. God only knows what I'm going to do > with it... Although I do have a nice IBM 8-bit MFM drive > controller I'm going to stick in there, along with a hard drive. > > BTW, the thing had a fully-loaded AST SixPack Plus board in > it. If this requires any drivers to work, I would appreciate > knowing about it (and knowing where to find said drivers). > > Thanks much. > > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, > Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com > kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech do/t c=o=m > "If Salvador Dali had owned a computer, would it have been equipped > with surreal ports?" Bruce, I have attached a file AST-6PAK.ZIP - which the rest of the folks won't see - that contains text and ascii drawings of the boards, and tables of switch settings. Hope it is useful to you. - don From vcf at siconic.com Tue Feb 3 20:46:56 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:07 2005 Subject: I have no willpower... I need drivers, too. In-Reply-To: <200402040031.i140Vw5e025643@onyx.spiritone.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 3 Feb 2004, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > I thought for sure I'd left my computer collecting days far > > behind when my interest in amateur radio re-flared a few years back. > > Then I came across one heck of a piece of history that I could not resist. > > Bruce, you have my condolences! Be smart, work at resisting, just toss it > on eBay. And NO, I DO NOT want it! Why do people go crazy over these things? They're just as common as Commodore 64's but far less interesting. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Feb 3 20:54:50 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:07 2005 Subject: I have no willpower... I need drivers, too. In-Reply-To: from "Vintage Computer Festival" at Feb 03, 2004 06:46:56 PM Message-ID: <200402040254.i142spaF029416@onyx.spiritone.com> > On Tue, 3 Feb 2004, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > > > I thought for sure I'd left my computer collecting days far > > > behind when my interest in amateur radio re-flared a few years back. > > > Then I came across one heck of a piece of history that I could not resist. > > > > Bruce, you have my condolences! Be smart, work at resisting, just toss it > > on eBay. And NO, I DO NOT want it! > > Why do people go crazy over these things? They're just as common as > Commodore 64's but far less interesting. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival I totally agree, and don't forget you can fit a C64, C1542, cables, and a bunch of carts and floppies in a lot less space. Plus the C64 has colour ;^) Zane From gerold.pauler at gmx.net Tue Feb 3 21:04:44 2004 From: gerold.pauler at gmx.net (Gerold Pauler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:07 2005 Subject: Help needed: AS33 understanding Reader Run Control References: <200402032124.NAA02636@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <4020614C.805@gmx.net> Hi, in the process of restoring one of my teletypes I decided to connect it to a PC. Send and receive work fine, but the tape reader does NOT work in line mode (local is no problem). It is an ASR33 relabeled by HP and has a HP Reader Run Control Card. I have put a schematic of this card online http://pdp8.de/download/HPtty.pdf (Couldn't figure out the types of T1 and D1 - so these can be a pnp or a zener diode also. Polarities of reader run signals (RDR+/RDR-) can also be wrong.) But I am too dump to understand how to connect the reader run signals. I'm not even sure what levels they should have. I just thought that a circuit identical to TX (on PC side aka RX on teletype) should do. If you need additional infos to help please let me know. TIA Gerold (pdp8.de) From huw.davies at kerberos.davies.net.au Tue Feb 3 21:04:01 2004 From: huw.davies at kerberos.davies.net.au (Huw Davies) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:07 2005 Subject: Help wanted with an Open VMS installation In-Reply-To: <000001c3ea47$2b970140$0200a8c0@Gamma> References: <000001c3ea47$2b970140$0200a8c0@Gamma> Message-ID: On 3 Feb 2004, at 22:16, Robin wrote: > Can anyone please help... > > I am trying to install OpenVMS 7.3-1 for the first time onto a DEC 3000 > Model 600, I have checked the compatibility of the hardware and the > console firmware is the latest version however the installation process > hangs with the message "%SWAPPER-I-SYSDISK, checking status of system > disk" > > Has anyone experienced this before. > > All help advice and suggestions gratefully received A quick check indicates that this is still a supported hardware platform. What does SHOW DEVICE give at the console (>>>) prompt? Are you sure that the disk is functional? Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@kerberos.davies.net.au Melbourne | "If soccer was meant to be played in the Australia | air, the sky would be painted green" From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Feb 3 21:12:21 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:07 2005 Subject: I have no willpower... I need drivers, too. In-Reply-To: <200402031624390475.11DDA40D@192.168.42.129> from "Bruce Lane" at Feb 3, 4 04:24:39 pm Message-ID: > BTW, the thing had a fully-loaded AST SixPack Plus board in it. If > this requires any drivers to work, I would appreciate knowing about it > (and knowing where to find said drivers). IIRC, the 'Sixpack' board has 6 functions (hence the name), but 2 of them are really software (print spooler and ? ). The 'hardware' ones are : Memory (up to the full 640K), serial port, parallel port, and real time clock. Only the clock needs a driver, the memory and ports are recognised by the normal ROM BIOS. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Feb 3 21:15:45 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:07 2005 Subject: Need RT-11 on RX02 In-Reply-To: <634A661E-56B2-11D8-96A3-000A95A6B97A@mdrconsult.com> from "Doc Shipley" at Feb 3, 4 07:35:17 pm Message-ID: > More than any other brand, it seems that DEC stuff is dead simple to > service if you know how, and impossible if you're playing by ear. All I can say to that is that I have never worked for DEC, and don't have access to any 'internal failed circus' manuals... In other words, _I_ had to 'play it by ear' the first time. And actually, the RX01/2 is not that hard to work on (at least not compared to some of the things I've had to sort out). Incidentally, I suspect I'm one of the few people to trace RX01 problems using a KM11 card (or actually a copy of same) plugged into the test connector... -tony From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Feb 3 21:25:03 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:07 2005 Subject: I have no willpower... I need drivers, too. In-Reply-To: <200402040254.i142spaF029416@onyx.spiritone.com> References: <200402040254.i142spaF029416@onyx.spiritone.com> Message-ID: <20040203192207.A50742@newshell.lmi.net> [Compaq luggable] > > Why do people go crazy over these things? They're just as common as > > Commodore 64's but far less interesting. On Tue, 3 Feb 2004, Zane H. Healy wrote: > I totally agree, and don't forget you can fit a C64, C1542, cables, and a > bunch of carts and floppies in a lot less space. Plus the C64 has colour > ;^) You can fit a LOT in one of them! At Comdex, the late night security people would leave the computers alone, but they stole our beer, our cheese and crackers, our cookies, etc. So,... We made a big lunchbox out of a Compaq. Our food was safe, hidden in it. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From nico at farumdata.dk Wed Feb 4 01:21:20 2004 From: nico at farumdata.dk (Nico de Jong) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:07 2005 Subject: I have no willpower... I need drivers, too. References: <200402040254.i142spaF029416@onyx.spiritone.com> <20040203192207.A50742@newshell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <000601c3eaef$7d092320$2201a8c0@finans> > At Comdex, the late night security people would leave the computers alone, > but they stole our beer, our cheese and crackers, our cookies, etc. > So,... We made a big lunchbox out of a Compaq. Our food was safe, hidden > in it. > That reminds me of a project that came to nothing. Back in the late 80's / early 90's, Trace sold a 5.25" floppy disk autoloader. A customer thought that it looked like a coffee maker. I thought it would be a marvellous idea to have such a beast as a display item, but the mechanical work involved proved to be too much :-( Nico From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Wed Feb 4 03:23:58 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:07 2005 Subject: 'melted' tape roller In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Tony Duell > Sent: 04 February 2004 00:06 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: 'melted' tape roller > > You might find an 'idler tyre' for a VCR would work if you > can get one the right size. You want to go to a _good_ VCR > spares/repair place and see if they can match it up. Hmm. Pity the only good repairs place round here closed down a couple of years ago; never found out why. There's one more but he's one of the grumpiest people I've ever come across. > I don't think an O-ring is very suitable here, you want > something with a rectangluar cross-section. Does it have to be? Though I suppose I need something that's solid and not liable to shift around so the speed of the drive will be constant. > wonder if that could be used to make rollers, etc. Making the > moulds would be fairly easy in a reasonable home workshop. > Anyone know if said compound is available in the UK? There's a car interior restorer just down the road from here - they might know, though with a name like 'northumbrian leather interiors' they might not :) > This is a full-size platten, in 2 parts, with differential > gearing between them (to keep the paper running straight!). > Should be 'interesting' to repair... Ick - sounds like fun! Cheers -- Adrian/Witchy Binary Dinosaurs www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Feb 4 05:14:45 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:07 2005 Subject: I have no willpower... I need drivers, too. In-Reply-To: References: <200402031624390475.11DDA40D@192.168.42.129> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040204061445.0082b670@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 03:12 AM 2/4/04 +0000, you wrote: >> BTW, the thing had a fully-loaded AST SixPack Plus board in it. If >> this requires any drivers to work, I would appreciate knowing about it >> (and knowing where to find said drivers). > >IIRC, the 'Sixpack' board has 6 functions (hence the name), but 2 of them >are really software (print spooler and ? ). RAMdisk. The 'hardware' ones are : >Memory (up to the full 640K), serial port, parallel port, and real time >clock. Only the clock needs a driver, the memory and ports are recognised >by the normal ROM BIOS. No driver for the clock, just two small programs. One to set the RT clock and another to read it and set the softare clock. I THINK there were some other programs included but I can't remember what they were. Joe > >-tony > From gerold.pauler at gmx.net Wed Feb 4 06:58:44 2004 From: gerold.pauler at gmx.net (Gerold Pauler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:07 2005 Subject: Help needed: AS33 understanding Reader Run Control References: <200402032124.NAA02636@clulw009.amd.com> <4020614C.805@gmx.net> Message-ID: <4020EC84.80000@gmx.net> Hi, it must have been far too late this morning. After a little sleep, I found out what went wrong. Both sides HP in the Reader Run Control an I in the RSR232 -> 20 mA converter made assumptions on how the other end handles the signals. HP thinks TX+ (positiv wire of transmit) is permanently tied to Vcc and TX- is floating (on signal). And RX- (negativ wire of receive) is permanently tied to GND with TX+ floating. I did it the other way - tying TX- to GND and RX+ to Vcc. So the reader run control could not work. I now will rework my converter box and show the result (if wanted). Thanks to all who answered Gerold Gerold Pauler schrieb: > Hi, > > in the process of restoring one of my teletypes I decided > to connect it to a PC. Send and receive work fine, but the > tape reader does NOT work in line mode (local is no problem). > > It is an ASR33 relabeled by HP and has a HP Reader Run Control Card. > I have put a schematic of this card online > http://pdp8.de/download/HPtty.pdf > (Couldn't figure out the types of T1 and D1 - so these can be a pnp or > a zener diode also. Polarities of reader run signals (RDR+/RDR-) can > also be wrong.) > > But I am too dump to understand how to connect the reader run signals. > I'm not even sure what levels they should have. > I just thought that a circuit identical to TX (on PC side aka RX on > teletype) should do. > > If you need additional infos to help please let me know. > > TIA > Gerold (pdp8.de) From cb at mythtech.net Wed Feb 4 08:39:17 2004 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:07 2005 Subject: Restoring old floppies to usable state Message-ID: > The answer is absolutely maybe. It really depends >on the original cause. Try running some test with >a known good drive. Formats appear to go ok, and basic testing (writing data to and reading from) appear to work ok. I haven't tried a real stress utility yet. > You didn't state what you were running on? Things >like Nortons disk doctor have good serface test. Right now, running on an old Mac. I'll run a few disks thru a PC to use better surface testing tools (any of my good Mac tools are either not readily available, or will only run on newer macs that have problems with 800k disks in the best of situations, so I wouldn't be able to trust the results to the disk or the mac being the source of error) Thanks -chris From marvin at rain.org Wed Feb 4 10:21:03 2004 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:07 2005 Subject: Looking for HDOS diskette layout Message-ID: <40211BEF.75022DAD@rain.org> I read this on the Heath listserver, and figured someone here would be able to help him out :). Reply to him directly as I don't *think* he is on this listserver. *************** Subject: Looking for HDOS diskette layout Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 10:45:01 -0700 From: "Eric J. Rothfus" Does anyone know or have a reference regarding the layout of the HDOS (H8/H19) diskette and filesystem? The generic HDOS documentation doesn't include it. I'm looking mainly for the way that HDOS organizes files on the diskette and the format of the directory track. I will be creating software that can add/remove files from an image of an HDOS floppy. This is in continuing development of the SVD (www.rothfus.com/SVD). The SVD can now boot the H8 and will soon be tested on the H19 (thanks Jack!). Thanks! Eric From vcf at siconic.com Wed Feb 4 10:31:55 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:07 2005 Subject: 'melted' tape roller In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Feb 2004, Witchy wrote: > Hmm. Pity the only good repairs place round here closed down a couple of > years ago; never found out why. There's one more but he's one of the > grumpiest people I've ever come across. You would be too if everyone just threw out their broken VCR and bought a new one instead of trying to have it repaired :\ -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From lyosnorezel at yahoo.com Tue Feb 3 12:29:26 2004 From: lyosnorezel at yahoo.com (Lyos Norezel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:07 2005 Subject: Need some schematics... anyone? Message-ID: <20040203182926.63306.qmail@web41704.mail.yahoo.com> Hey all... I am currently in the process of designing (and hopefully later building) a dual Z80 laptop. The datasheets don't tell me near enough... schematics would be much better... the problem is most homebuilt computers seem to revlove around the 6502 family (at least those on the 'net do). If anyone could point me to where I can find some Z80 schematics I'd greatly apprieciate it. Lyos Gemini Norezel BTW... I hope my english is clear enough to everyone here. Scottish/Celtic is my native tongue. Spanish name, Scottish background... strange mix, eh? --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! From lyosnorezel at yahoo.com Tue Feb 3 12:29:26 2004 From: lyosnorezel at yahoo.com (Lyos Norezel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:07 2005 Subject: Need some schematics... anyone? Message-ID: <20040203182926.63306.qmail@web41704.mail.yahoo.com> Hey all... I am currently in the process of designing (and hopefully later building) a dual Z80 laptop. The datasheets don't tell me near enough... schematics would be much better... the problem is most homebuilt computers seem to revlove around the 6502 family (at least those on the 'net do). If anyone could point me to where I can find some Z80 schematics I'd greatly apprieciate it. Lyos Gemini Norezel BTW... I hope my english is clear enough to everyone here. Scottish/Celtic is my native tongue. Spanish name, Scottish background... strange mix, eh? --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! From maya2blue at juno.com Tue Feb 3 15:09:06 2004 From: maya2blue at juno.com (Harve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:07 2005 Subject: True Data Corp Apple card Message-ID: <20040203.130952.4168.124391@webmail22.nyc.untd.com> I have come across an Apple IIe with a True Data Corporation card in it. S/N 0267 model 350405901 rev a cable out to 25pin female D 4 dip switches Sure would like to know what it is for! :) And, of course, would love to find the dip switch info. Many Tks Harve ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! From will1860 at sisna.com Tue Feb 3 18:10:43 2004 From: will1860 at sisna.com (Paul Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:07 2005 Subject: scanning fiche Message-ID: <000a01c3eab3$56665b20$53f21204@bumskkdz> Greetings, Do you remember the company in India that does the scan and return on CD -- how I can get in touch with them? Thank you From r.lasbury at ntlworld.com Wed Feb 4 03:14:49 2004 From: r.lasbury at ntlworld.com (Robin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:07 2005 Subject: Help wanted with an Open VMS installation Message-ID: <000001c3eaff$57e5e4b0$0200a8c0@Gamma> Nothing happens at all when I press CTRL-T Up to the point where it hangs all seems to be going well. I boot with the flags 0,20000 so I can see what is going on and there are plenty of messages showing certain files being loaded and configured etc. All of the %EXECINIT processes appear to load OK and then it changes to the %SWAPPER messages and this all hangs with the second %SWAPPER message where it checks the status of the system disk !!! Robin _____ << ella for Spam Control >> has removed 1845 Spam messages and set aside 241 Newsletters for me You can use it too - and it's FREE! www.ellaforspam.com From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Feb 4 12:04:24 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:07 2005 Subject: Forced eBay ID Change? Message-ID: Anyone else have their eBay ID forcefully changed recently? I've had an account for over 6 years and I predate the rules against using an email address. Looks like the b******* have decided to forcefully change all of us using email addresses for our ID's so as to better control the flow of information to us. Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From frank at artair.com Wed Feb 4 12:44:17 2004 From: frank at artair.com (Frank Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:07 2005 Subject: 5.25 disks/programs available In-Reply-To: <177.251fb5e8.2d514eeb@aol.com> References: <177.251fb5e8.2d514eeb@aol.com> Message-ID: <86230000.1075920257@hoovers-59.hoovers.com> I'd like the Turbo C and Turbo C++ if they are still available. Let me know how much (78747 zip). Thanks Frank --On Tuesday, February 03, 2004 14:22:19 -0500 SUPRDAVE@aol.com wrote: > I scavenged some old disks from someone that was cleaning up their office > after moving. Listed below is some items someone might want. Otherwise, I'll just > format and keep them for extras. They all look like new and seem to be > unused. > > system disks for Dell system200 pc. DOS/gwbasic/utilities > borland turboC 1986 5disk set > Microtek USD-III 1.0 5 disk set > x6800 assembler > something called matrix desktop. 8 disk set > Turbo C++ 10 disk set > procomm plus 2 disk set > MS mouse and paintbrush, several copies of each > MSDOS 4.01 from TRC techology research. Has the old style ms logo on them. 6 > disk set > MS windows 3.0 from z-nix company 5 disk set > > pay for shipping and they can be yours -- Frank Smith frank@artair.com From jwest at classiccmp.org Wed Feb 4 12:51:49 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:07 2005 Subject: IBM PC5150 monitor wanted/question Message-ID: <1edf01c3eb4f$f265afc0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> I have an IBM PC 5150 system unit and keyboard. I popped the cover and it has a Paradise Multi Video or somesuch card in it. The card has two DB9 connectors, an RCA connector in the middle, and a little slide switch at the top. Here's the deal: I'd like someday to find an authentic IBM brand monitor for this. However, I'm not sure if it is mono, CGA, or EGA, or composite, or all of the above. I'm curious how hard it is to find the right real IBM monitor for this system. If it's fairly hard to find one these days, I will go pull the Epson Equity I+ CGA (or is it EGA, it's color and has 9 pins) monitor out of the trash to use if I have little hope of getting the IBM one. So, can someone tell me what monitors types are likely to work with this card, if those are hard/expensive to find (or if someone has one for trade), or if those are nigh impossible to find, will the Epson monitor work on it? Thanks for any thoughts! Jay West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Wed Feb 4 12:59:59 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:07 2005 Subject: 'melted' tape roller In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Vintage > Computer Festival > Sent: 04 February 2004 16:32 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: RE: 'melted' tape roller > > On Wed, 4 Feb 2004, Witchy wrote: > > > Hmm. Pity the only good repairs place round here closed > down a couple > > of years ago; never found out why. There's one more but he's one of > > the grumpiest people I've ever come across. > > You would be too if everyone just threw out their broken VCR > and bought a new one instead of trying to have it repaired :\ Yes, there is that, particularly since he charged something like ukp50 just to look at something (he does hi-fis, tv's and microwaves too) - the one that closed down was half his costs which is why I used them more. Actually, you've just reminded me of a big repair place not far from here that may have a Big Box of old spares they keep just for people like me to wander in and rifle through :) Cheers -- Adrian/Witchy Owner & Webmaster, Binary Dinosaurs www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From jwest at classiccmp.org Wed Feb 4 12:56:58 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:07 2005 Subject: HP-UX CD & tape media loan? Who had it! Message-ID: <1ee501c3eb50$aa7c74e0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Quite some time ago I loaned out my 5-CD HP-UX media set (plus some 4mm DAT tapes of layered products) to someone on the list to duplicate. I was making room in the collection for my D220 system yesterday and went to reinstall the OS, and can't find my media set anywhere. I know where I can borrow a copy, but I want my originals back. Can the listmember who borrowed them from me let me know if they still have them, or if they sent them back to me and I just can't find them. I'd query the list member directly but can't seem to find the emails that were exchanged in private about it. Thanks! Jay West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From jwest at classiccmp.org Wed Feb 4 12:57:59 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:07 2005 Subject: Forced eBay ID Change? References: Message-ID: <1ee901c3eb50$ceb0a520$033310ac@kwcorp.com> they forced me to do it like a year ago. Perhaps they are just now getting to the Z's :) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Zane H. Healy" To: Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2004 12:04 PM Subject: Forced eBay ID Change? > Anyone else have their eBay ID forcefully changed recently? I've had an account for over 6 years and I predate the rules against using an email address. Looks like the b******* have decided to forcefully change all of us using email addresses for our ID's so as to better control the flow of information to us. > > Zane > -- > -- > | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | > | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | > | | Classic Computer Collector | > +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ > | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | > | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | > | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | > --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Feb 4 13:01:27 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:07 2005 Subject: 5.25 disks/programs available In-Reply-To: <86230000.1075920257@hoovers-59.hoovers.com> References: <177.251fb5e8.2d514eeb@aol.com> <86230000.1075920257@hoovers-59.hoovers.com> Message-ID: <20040204105620.G66212@newshell.lmi.net> On Wed, 4 Feb 2004, Frank Smith wrote: > I'd like the Turbo C and Turbo C++ if they are still available. > Let me know how much (78747 zip). > Thanks > Frank If they are not still available, be aware of the availability of free download of "obsolete" Borland products. >From http://www.faqs.org/faqs/msdos-programmer-faq/part5/section-10.html "Borland has issued free versions of several Borland C and Pascal compilers. Users can download the Borland C++ Compiler 5.5 from . It is an ANSI compliant C++ compiler for Win32 with a number of extra feature; however, it does not include a GUI and does not appear to support MS-DOS executables. Users can also download Turbo Pascal 1.0, 3.02, and 5.5 and Turbo C 1.01 and 2.01 from the Borland Community Museum if they first register as Borland Community members at . " From marvin at rain.org Wed Feb 4 13:09:59 2004 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:07 2005 Subject: Forced eBay ID Change? References: Message-ID: <40214387.775BD674@rain.org> "Zane H. Healy" wrote: > > Anyone else have their eBay ID forcefully changed recently? I've had an account for over 6 years and I predate the rules against using an email address. Looks like the b******* have decided to forcefully change all of us using email addresses for our ID's so as to better control the flow of information to us. Yes, mine was also changed *without* my permission. IMNSHO, they are attempting to divert attention from the incompetant operations people. They are idiots. From bli at psu.edu Wed Feb 4 13:12:36 2004 From: bli at psu.edu (Jeff Brendle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:08 2005 Subject: Forced eBay ID Change? In-Reply-To: <1ee901c3eb50$ceb0a520$033310ac@kwcorp.com> References: <1ee901c3eb50$ceb0a520$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <1789B5D6-5746-11D8-8F62-000A27917E58@psu.edu> I was forced to change mine yesterday... I guess it wasn't done in alpha. order, maybe by date of signing-up or ??? -j On Feb 4, 2004, at 1:57 PM, Jay West wrote: > they forced me to do it like a year ago. Perhaps they are just now > getting > to the Z's :) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Zane H. Healy" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2004 12:04 PM > Subject: Forced eBay ID Change? > > >> Anyone else have their eBay ID forcefully changed recently? I've had >> an > account for over 6 years and I predate the rules against using an email > address. Looks like the b******* have decided to forcefully change > all of > us using email addresses for our ID's so as to better control the flow > of > information to us. >> >> Zane >> -- >> -- >> | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | >> | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | >> | | Classic Computer Collector | >> +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ >> | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | >> | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | >> | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | >> > > --- > [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > > Jeff Brendle Office: 313 EESB/(814)865-3257/fax 865-3191 Desktop Support Spv. Home: #210 Parkgate 349 Toftrees Ave. Penn State - Coll. of E&MS State College, PA / (814)861-8180 Mailto:bli@psu.edu AOL/MSN/Yahoo! IM - JSBrendle From dittman at dittman.net Wed Feb 4 13:23:59 2004 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:08 2005 Subject: Forced eBay ID Change? In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at Feb 04, 2004 10:04:24 AM Message-ID: <20040204192400.07A6A7F82@narnia.int.dittman.net> > Anyone else have their eBay ID forcefully changed recently? > I've had an account for over 6 years and I predate the rules > against using an email address. Looks like the b******* have > decided to forcefully change all of us using email addresses > for our ID's so as to better control the flow of information > to us. Create an "About Me" page with your email address. That will bypass their control, until they start scrubbing those for email addresses. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Feb 4 13:31:09 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:08 2005 Subject: IBM PC5150 monitor wanted/question In-Reply-To: <1edf01c3eb4f$f265afc0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> References: <1edf01c3eb4f$f265afc0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <20040204111923.Q66212@newshell.lmi.net> On Wed, 4 Feb 2004, Jay West wrote: > I have an IBM PC 5150 system unit and keyboard. I popped the cover and it > has a Paradise Multi Video or somesuch card in it. The card has two DB9 > connectors, an RCA connector in the middle, and a little slide switch at the > top. > Here's the deal: I'd like someday to find an authentic IBM brand monitor for > this. However, I'm not sure if it is mono, CGA, or EGA, or composite, or all First, decide what YOU want. Then discard the oddball video card if it isn't what you want. It is probably a combination MDA/CGA. Be aware that IBM MDA monitors can actually be damaged if you feed them CGA signal rates!, thus making such a combination card a serious liability risk. Your choices for video on an 8 bit system using IBM monitors include: MDA (80 x 25 B&W text) CGA (80 x 25 color text, graphics up to 640 x 200 B&W, 320 x 200 color) Aftermarket CGA boards higher res CGA (640 x 400), MGA (aftermarket (Hercules and hercules clone) board only, 80 x 25 B&W text, graphics up to 720 x 348 B&W) EGA VGA (real IBM 8 bit VGA cards are a bit scarce these days, but aftermarket abounds) Aftermarket also includes board and monitor 1280 x 800 B&W (Wyse 700/Amdek 1280) From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Wed Feb 4 13:36:52 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:08 2005 Subject: IBM PC5150 monitor wanted/question Message-ID: <0402041936.AA03258@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Fred Cisin wrote: > real IBM 8 bit VGA cards are a bit scarce these days I'm looking for one and am willing to pay fair antique value. MS From jwest at classiccmp.org Wed Feb 4 13:44:04 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:08 2005 Subject: IBM PC5150 monitor wanted/question References: <1edf01c3eb4f$f265afc0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <20040204111923.Q66212@newshell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <1f2201c3eb57$3eb2e760$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Yikes... just found a few on Ebay... 100 bucks? Sheesh! Someone have one they can trade? Jay ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Cisin" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2004 1:31 PM Subject: Re: IBM PC5150 monitor wanted/question > On Wed, 4 Feb 2004, Jay West wrote: > > I have an IBM PC 5150 system unit and keyboard. I popped the cover and it > > has a Paradise Multi Video or somesuch card in it. The card has two DB9 > > connectors, an RCA connector in the middle, and a little slide switch at the > > top. > > Here's the deal: I'd like someday to find an authentic IBM brand monitor for > > this. However, I'm not sure if it is mono, CGA, or EGA, or composite, or all > > First, decide what YOU want. Then discard the oddball video card if it > isn't what you want. It is probably a combination MDA/CGA. Be aware that > IBM MDA monitors can actually be damaged if you feed them CGA signal > rates!, thus making such a combination card a serious liability risk. > > Your choices for video on an 8 bit system using IBM monitors include: > MDA (80 x 25 B&W text) > CGA (80 x 25 color text, graphics up to 640 x 200 B&W, 320 x 200 color) > Aftermarket CGA boards higher res CGA (640 x 400), > MGA (aftermarket (Hercules and hercules clone) board only, 80 x 25 B&W > text, graphics up to 720 x 348 B&W) > EGA > VGA (real IBM 8 bit VGA cards are a bit scarce these days, but aftermarket > abounds) > > Aftermarket also includes board and monitor 1280 x 800 B&W (Wyse 700/Amdek > 1280) > --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From geneb at deltasoft.com Wed Feb 4 14:07:03 2004 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:08 2005 Subject: Forced eBay ID Change? In-Reply-To: <1789B5D6-5746-11D8-8F62-000A27917E58@psu.edu> Message-ID: > I was forced to change mine yesterday... I guess it wasn't done in > alpha. order, maybe by date of signing-up or ??? > -j > BTW, the reason they're doing this is to help prevent people from being victimized by phishing scams. g. From geneb at deltasoft.com Wed Feb 4 14:07:47 2004 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:08 2005 Subject: Forced eBay ID Change? In-Reply-To: <40214387.775BD674@rain.org> Message-ID: My, what a shiny tinfoil hat you have! g. On Wed, 4 Feb 2004, Marvin Johnston wrote: > > "Zane H. Healy" wrote: > > > > Anyone else have their eBay ID forcefully changed recently? I've had an account for over 6 years and I predate the rules against using an email address. Looks like the b******* have decided to forcefully change all of us using email addresses for our ID's so as to better control the flow of information to us. > > Yes, mine was also changed *without* my permission. IMNSHO, they are > attempting to divert attention from the incompetant operations people. > They are idiots. > From tomj at wps.com Wed Feb 4 14:22:49 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:08 2005 Subject: Restoring old floppies to usable state In-Reply-To: <200402032124.NAA02636@clulw009.amd.com> References: <200402032124.NAA02636@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <1075925430.2091.4.camel@dhcp-251175> There are also chemical/mechanical problems with magnetic media; the binder that holds the iron oxides to the mylar substrate fail over time. eg. the bits physically flake off. I would guess it's highly brand-dependent, and secndarily by handling, flexing, temp, envionment, as Dwight sez, an absolute maybe! On Tue, 2004-02-03 at 13:24, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > Hi Chris > The answer is absolutely maybe. It really depends > on the original cause. Try running some test with > a known good drive. > You didn't state what you were running on? Things > like Nortons disk doctor have good serface test. > Dwight > > >From: chris > > > >Will a magnetic bulk eraser restore a floppy to good status? > > > >I have some floppies that are reporting bad sectors when formatted. I've > >tried bulk erasing them, and a format afterwards reports no bad sectors. > >Is this actually working, or am I just getting lucky, and those bad > >sectors will return shortly. > > > >These are DSDD 3.5's which are getting a little harder to come by. So if > >bulk erasing works, then I'll do that and salvage them. > > > >-chris > > > > > > > From paulpenn at knology.net Wed Feb 4 14:12:27 2004 From: paulpenn at knology.net (Paul Pennington) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:08 2005 Subject: Need some schematics... anyone? References: <20040203182926.63306.qmail@web41704.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <006201c3eb5b$361fa260$6401a8c0@knology.net> "Lyos Norezel" asked: > Hey all... I am currently in the process of designing (and hopefully later building) a > dual Z80 laptop. The datasheets don't tell me near enough... schematics would be > much better... the problem is most homebuilt computers seem to revlove around > the 6502 family (at least those on the 'net do). If anyone could point me to where > I can find some Z80 schematics I'd greatly apprieciate it. There have been a bunch of Z-80 projects over the years. Two books that describe Z-80 construction projects are: Z-80 Microcomputer Design Projects, by William Barden, Jr., Sams, 1980 Build Your Own Z80 Computer, by Steve Ciarcia, Byte Books, 1981 One other thought: just pick up a Texas Instruments 83+ calculator -- it has a Z-80 as its CPU. > Lyos Gemini Norezel > BTW... I hope my english is clear enough to everyone here. Scottish/Celtic is my native tongue. Spanish name, Scottish background... strange mix, eh? Not that strange -- after the destruction of the Spanish Armada, sailors who swam ashore are supposed to have started several Spanish lines. I have a line from Scotland in my family tree with the name Caudill. There is speculation it was originally Cordillo. Paul Pennington Augusta, Georgia From curt at atarimuseum.com Wed Feb 4 14:12:42 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:08 2005 Subject: Forced eBay ID Change? References: <1ee901c3eb50$ceb0a520$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <001c01c3eb5b$3f2e8330$1a02a8c0@starship1> They just don't want people directly talking to one another, God forbid.... only through their controlling environment, sheeez people can't even talk to one another without evilbay watching over them. Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jay West" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2004 1:57 PM Subject: Re: Forced eBay ID Change? > they forced me to do it like a year ago. Perhaps they are just now getting > to the Z's :) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Zane H. Healy" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2004 12:04 PM > Subject: Forced eBay ID Change? > > > > Anyone else have their eBay ID forcefully changed recently? I've had an > account for over 6 years and I predate the rules against using an email > address. Looks like the b******* have decided to forcefully change all of > us using email addresses for our ID's so as to better control the flow of > information to us. > > > > Zane > > -- > > -- > > | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | > > | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | > > | | Classic Computer Collector | > > +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ > > | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | > > | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | > > | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | > > > > --- > [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > From tomj at wps.com Wed Feb 4 14:29:51 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:08 2005 Subject: 'melted' tape roller In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1075925857.2091.11.camel@dhcp-251175> On Tue, 2004-02-03 at 16:05, Tony Duell wrote: > You might find an 'idler tyre' for a VCR would work if you can get one > the right size. You want to go to a _good_ VCR spares/repair place and > see if they can match it up. YOu can also turn rubber pretty easily on a small drill press. The real chore is to chuck it so it rotates concentrically. I've had to manufacture a new rubber anvil wheel for a 1920's Western Union machine, a tire about 2" diam x 1/4" wide. Came out quite nice. I got some 60-durometer neoprene sheet (from Industrial Metal Supply, Sun Valley CA), chopped it roundish, hole-sawed it (large hole) and just jammed it over a giant mill bit. It's rubber; it grips. If the tape drive spindle that the 'tire' fits over is say 1/2" diameter, drill a slightly smaller hole in the rubber, and chuck a 1/2" 'thing' in the drill press. Press the tire on. It won't grip hard, but enough for engine turning. Turn the drill press on, and use a rough file to get it the right size and shape. Then apply sandpaper on a wooden block. Can't use much pressure else the tire flies off. I used the drill press table as a hand rest. You can get the surface nice and smoothly rough with sandpaper. tomj > > I don't think an O-ring is very suitable here, you want something with > a rectangluar cross-section. > > I believe classic car restorers use a 2-part 'rubber' compound to make > thigns like pedal rubbers, seals, etc. I wonder if that could be used to > make rollers, etc. Making the moulds would be fairly easy in a reasonable > home workshop. Anyone know if said compound is available in the UK? > > I've got a roller to rebuild sometime. The platten roller for a Versatec > V80 electrostatic plotter. It's turned to goo. This is a full-size > platten, in 2 parts, with differential gearing between them (to keep the > paper running straight!). Should be 'interesting' to repair... > > -tony From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Feb 4 14:14:54 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:08 2005 Subject: IBM PC5150 monitor wanted/question In-Reply-To: <1edf01c3eb4f$f265afc0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040204151454.0080e100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Jay, I can't be certain what your card takes but most cards like that took CGA, Monochrome and/or composite monitor. You're right, the old IBM PC stuff is getting hard to find. I started looking for it about 1 1/2 years ago and I haven't found a single one in the surplus places. Kelvin in Atlanta is still finding an occasional one in the thrift stores. He also found one at Weird stuff a couple of months ago. Joe At 12:51 PM 2/4/04 -0600, you wrote: >I have an IBM PC 5150 system unit and keyboard. I popped the cover and it >has a Paradise Multi Video or somesuch card in it. The card has two DB9 >connectors, an RCA connector in the middle, and a little slide switch at the >top. > >Here's the deal: I'd like someday to find an authentic IBM brand monitor for >this. However, I'm not sure if it is mono, CGA, or EGA, or composite, or all >of the above. I'm curious how hard it is to find the right real IBM monitor >for this system. If it's fairly hard to find one these days, I will go pull >the Epson Equity I+ CGA (or is it EGA, it's color and has 9 pins) monitor >out of the trash to use if I have little hope of getting the IBM one. > >So, can someone tell me what monitors types are likely to work with this >card, if those are hard/expensive to find (or if someone has one for trade), >or if those are nigh impossible to find, will the Epson monitor work on it? > >Thanks for any thoughts! > >Jay West > >--- >[This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Feb 4 14:19:46 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:08 2005 Subject: new finds: Panasonic High Speed Scanner KV-SS855 Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040204151946.00887cb0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Found this today. Is anyone familar with them? Joe From tomj at wps.com Wed Feb 4 14:35:32 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:08 2005 Subject: Looking for HDOS diskette layout In-Reply-To: <40211BEF.75022DAD@rain.org> References: <40211BEF.75022DAD@rain.org> Message-ID: <1075926199.2312.14.camel@dhcp-251175> On Wed, 2004-02-04 at 08:21, Marvin Johnston wrote: > Does anyone know or have a reference regarding the > layout of the HDOS (H8/H19) diskette and filesystem? > The generic HDOS documentation doesn't include it. Isn't it just CP/M 1.4? From marvin at rain.org Wed Feb 4 14:23:22 2004 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:08 2005 Subject: Forced eBay ID Change? References: <1ee901c3eb50$ceb0a520$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <001c01c3eb5b$3f2e8330$1a02a8c0@starship1> Message-ID: <402154BA.176D3D11@rain.org> Curt vendel wrote: > > They just don't want people directly talking to one another, God forbid.... > only through their controlling environment, sheeez people can't even talk to > one another without evilbay watching over them. I think they are trying to make it harder to harvest email addresses. Kind of like hoping that people as incompetant as they, are doing the harvesting and can't find a way around it :). It is still legal AFAIK to use an email ID such as twerps_at_ebay_com. Dwight, I have some *strong* opinions about the way ebay effectively took advantage of those of us who helped promote the site, and then screws them :)!!! From marvin at rain.org Wed Feb 4 14:26:27 2004 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:08 2005 Subject: IBM PC5150 monitor wanted/question References: <3.0.6.32.20040204151454.0080e100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <40215573.CC877B99@rain.org> "Joe R." wrote: > > I can't be certain what your card takes but most cards like that took > CGA, Monochrome and/or composite monitor. You're right, the old IBM PC > stuff is getting hard to find. I started looking for it about 1 1/2 years > ago and I haven't found a single one in the surplus places. Kelvin in > Atlanta is still finding an occasional one in the thrift stores. He also > found one at Weird stuff a couple of months ago. Thanks to a heads up about this several years ago by Sellam, I started collecting real IBM cards, software, computers, etc. However, it has been a year or so since I've seen real IBM PCs or ATs except for the PS/2 stuff. In this latest cleanup/throw out binge, at least I get a chance to find and see it again :). From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Feb 4 14:37:02 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:08 2005 Subject: IBM PC5150 monitor wanted/question In-Reply-To: <40215573.CC877B99@rain.org> References: <3.0.6.32.20040204151454.0080e100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040204153702.008a4490@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Marvin, If you get ready to throw out more of it, let me know. I have an early 5150 with the 64k MB and MDA. Joe At 12:26 PM 2/4/04 -0800, you wrote: > > >"Joe R." wrote: >> >> I can't be certain what your card takes but most cards like that took >> CGA, Monochrome and/or composite monitor. You're right, the old IBM PC >> stuff is getting hard to find. I started looking for it about 1 1/2 years >> ago and I haven't found a single one in the surplus places. Kelvin in >> Atlanta is still finding an occasional one in the thrift stores. He also >> found one at Weird stuff a couple of months ago. > >Thanks to a heads up about this several years ago by Sellam, I started >collecting real IBM cards, software, computers, etc. However, it has >been a year or so since I've seen real IBM PCs or ATs except for the >PS/2 stuff. In this latest cleanup/throw out binge, at least I get a >chance to find and see it again :). > From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Wed Feb 4 14:48:44 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:08 2005 Subject: BT Merlin Tonto screen buzzing/screeching Message-ID: Hi folks, I don't think this is restricted to the Merlin Tonto (Sinclair QL remade by ICL as the One-Per-Desk office companion and rebadged by British Telecom and New Zealand Telecom) since they didn't make the monitor: http://www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk/Museum/icl/opd.php http://www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk/Museum/icl/tonto.php I dug it out of storage tonight because this morning I got a load of handbooks and manuals as well as the original BT Merlin software set in nice blue wallets, and since it worked a year ago (as you can see in the pix) and has simply sat on a shelf in the house since then I just fired it up. Machine is fine and self-tests then beeps while its prompting for the date....fine....I hit the power button on the monitor and it just screeches at me before I quickly turn it off - it sounds like the wires on the yoke ringing loudly so is it possible the poor thing is objecting to being moved from a not-so-heated room to a heated one? The storage room is warm enough in winter that it doesn't go below freezing point (and it's very dry too), but in the last couple of days here it's been in the low 50s farenheit. Anyone seen screeching monitors before? Cheers :) -- Adrian/Witchy Owner & Webmaster, Binary Dinosaurs www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From geoffreythomas at onetel.net.uk Wed Feb 4 14:43:40 2004 From: geoffreythomas at onetel.net.uk (Geoffrey Thomas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:08 2005 Subject: 'melted' tape roller References: Message-ID: <003301c3eb61$6cfbc420$bf414ed5@geoff> Only too true, not too long ago , a company was advertising the bare rubber sections for pinch rollers etc. for almost any Vcr you could mention - I haven't seen them advertise for months , and the phone no. is no longer valid. - They are (were?) JJ Electronics somewhere in London nw9. Geoff. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vintage Computer Festival" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2004 4:31 PM Subject: RE: 'melted' tape roller > On Wed, 4 Feb 2004, Witchy wrote: > > > Hmm. Pity the only good repairs place round here closed down a couple of > > years ago; never found out why. There's one more but he's one of the > > grumpiest people I've ever come across. > > You would be too if everyone just threw out their broken VCR and bought a > new one instead of trying to have it repaired :\ > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage mputers ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > From curt at atarimuseum.com Wed Feb 4 15:04:45 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:08 2005 Subject: Forced eBay ID Change? References: <1ee901c3eb50$ceb0a520$033310ac@kwcorp.com><001c01c3eb5b$3f2e8330$1a02a8c0@starship1> <402154BA.176D3D11@rain.org> Message-ID: <005101c3eb62$847c5910$1a02a8c0@starship1> Well, I doubt thats gonna do any good as it seems someone from the inside is feeding/selling user accounts, I've never used my email address anywhere on ebay, yet I've received plenty of ebay related scammer emails with some personal ebay only info contained within them.... Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marvin Johnston" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2004 3:23 PM Subject: Re: Forced eBay ID Change? > > > Curt vendel wrote: > > > > They just don't want people directly talking to one another, God forbid.... > > only through their controlling environment, sheeez people can't even talk to > > one another without evilbay watching over them. > > I think they are trying to make it harder to harvest email addresses. > Kind of like hoping that people as incompetant as they, are doing the > harvesting and can't find a way around it :). It is still legal AFAIK to > use an email ID such as twerps_at_ebay_com. > > Dwight, I have some *strong* opinions about the way ebay effectively > took advantage of those of us who helped promote the site, and then > screws them :)!!! From dwight.elvey at amd.com Wed Feb 4 15:14:29 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:08 2005 Subject: Looking for HDOS diskette layout Message-ID: <200402042114.NAA03879@clulw009.amd.com> Hi Tom Nope. HDOS is a completely different OS. As I recall, the directory is somplace in the middle of the disk. Dwight >From: "Tom Jennings" > >On Wed, 2004-02-04 at 08:21, Marvin Johnston wrote: > >> Does anyone know or have a reference regarding the >> layout of the HDOS (H8/H19) diskette and filesystem? >> The generic HDOS documentation doesn't include it. > >Isn't it just CP/M 1.4? > > From marvin at rain.org Wed Feb 4 15:29:32 2004 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:08 2005 Subject: IBM PC5150 monitor wanted/question References: <3.0.6.32.20040204151454.0080e100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20040204153702.008a4490@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <4021643C.5E1E1624@rain.org> I should have mentioned, the clean up involves junk ... as opposed to junque :) ... that is actually going to the scrap yard. I've got most of the IBM PCs including the 64K with 16K soldered in memory chips. I do plan on putting a bunch of stuff on the Vintage Computer Marketplace in the not too distant future. And along the way, there are people still waiting for me to get to some stuff. If anyone feels I've forgotten them, I probably have and a reminder is not out of order :). "Joe R." wrote: > > Marvin, > > If you get ready to throw out more of it, let me know. I have an early > 5150 with the 64k MB and MDA. > > Joe > > At 12:26 PM 2/4/04 -0800, you wrote: > > > > > >"Joe R." wrote: > >> > >> I can't be certain what your card takes but most cards like that took > >> CGA, Monochrome and/or composite monitor. You're right, the old IBM PC > >> stuff is getting hard to find. I started looking for it about 1 1/2 years > >> ago and I haven't found a single one in the surplus places. Kelvin in > >> Atlanta is still finding an occasional one in the thrift stores. He also > >> found one at Weird stuff a couple of months ago. > > > >Thanks to a heads up about this several years ago by Sellam, I started > >collecting real IBM cards, software, computers, etc. However, it has > >been a year or so since I've seen real IBM PCs or ATs except for the > >PS/2 stuff. In this latest cleanup/throw out binge, at least I get a > >chance to find and see it again :). > > From cb at mythtech.net Wed Feb 4 15:36:44 2004 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:08 2005 Subject: IBM PC5150 monitor wanted/question Message-ID: >You're right, the old IBM PC >stuff is getting hard to find. I started looking for it about 1 1/2 years >ago and I haven't found a single one in the surplus places. I have two IBM 5150 machines, and possibly one monocrome IBM screen to match (but I'm pretty sure the screen is broken). I've been trying to decide if I should throw them out, or attempt to ebay them (along with at least one IBM XT, and possibly an AT) -chris From vcf at siconic.com Wed Feb 4 15:53:39 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:08 2005 Subject: Forced eBay ID Change? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Feb 2004, Zane H. Healy wrote: > Anyone else have their eBay ID forcefully changed recently? I've had an > account for over 6 years and I predate the rules against using an email > address. Looks like the b******* have decided to forcefully change all > of us using email addresses for our ID's so as to better control the > flow of information to us. Typical eBay. I think they play a game there where they come up with new and creative ways to piss off their users. If there were competition in that particular market sector then you better bet they would change their tune in an instant. eBay makes Microsoft look good. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From teoz at neo.rr.com Wed Feb 4 16:14:44 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:08 2005 Subject: Forced eBay ID Change? References: Message-ID: <012a01c3eb6c$4b791e50$0500fea9@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vintage Computer Festival" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2004 4:53 PM Subject: Re: Forced eBay ID Change? > Typical eBay. I think they play a game there where they come up with new > and creative ways to piss off their users. If there were competition in > that particular market sector then you better bet they would change their > tune in an instant. > > eBay makes Microsoft look good. > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival Considering that eBay is nothing more then a middleman between a buyer and a seller I can see why they would not want it to be easy for people using the system to communicate between each other through eBay. You can easily ask any seller a question you want for any active auction. My only problem with eBay to date is not being able to browse auctions more then a month old to find out the selling price history (or availability) of things I want to add to my collection. I haven't been burned by them yet so I cant comment on their customer support over disputes. From curt at atarimuseum.com Wed Feb 4 16:17:09 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:08 2005 Subject: Forced eBay ID Change? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <40216F65.7070109@atarimuseum.com> Whoa!!! Sellam must REALLY hate ebay to make that kind of comparision! :-) Don't forget the other thing.... ebay raised its fee's to all the user accounts Monday, they cut off some refunds and oh...but they did reduced posting on their front page from $99.99 to $39.99 woo hoo :-P Curt Vintage Computer Festival wrote: >On Wed, 4 Feb 2004, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > > >>Anyone else have their eBay ID forcefully changed recently? I've had an >>account for over 6 years and I predate the rules against using an email >>address. Looks like the b******* have decided to forcefully change all >>of us using email addresses for our ID's so as to better control the >>flow of information to us. >> >> > >Typical eBay. I think they play a game there where they come up with new >and creative ways to piss off their users. If there were competition in >that particular market sector then you better bet they would change their >tune in an instant. > >eBay makes Microsoft look good. > > > -- Curt Vendel & Karl Morris ----------------------------------------------------------------------- The Atari Museum http://www.atarimuseum.com The Atari Explorer http://www.atari-explorer.com From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Feb 4 16:33:50 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:08 2005 Subject: IBM PC5150 monitor wanted/question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040204173350.008118c0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 04:36 PM 2/4/04 -0500, chris wrote: >>You're right, the old IBM PC >>stuff is getting hard to find. I started looking for it about 1 1/2 years >>ago and I haven't found a single one in the surplus places. > >I have two IBM 5150 machines, and possibly one monocrome IBM screen to >match (but I'm pretty sure the screen is broken). > >I've been trying to decide if I should throw them out, or attempt to ebay >them (along with at least one IBM XT, and possibly an AT) At this point they're just beginning to be collected and the prices are still cheap (usually) so you may not want to bother with trying to E-bay them. But if you don't and you still want to get rid of them then let me or the list know and someone will surely take them. Don't throw them out. BTW my 5150 has the monochrome monitor but it doesn't have the original MDA card so if you don't need your's anymore I could use it. Joe From jpl15 at panix.com Wed Feb 4 16:35:35 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:08 2005 Subject: Ping Tom Jennings Message-ID: Sorry for the bit o' bandwidth, fellow ListMembers - Tom - if possible, check your e-mail - thanks... Cheers John From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Feb 4 16:39:15 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:08 2005 Subject: need drivers/manual for M-Systems PC-FD card Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040204173915.00828480@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I found a box full of these today. They appear to be disk drive emulators using Flash memory. M-systems is still in business but they say that these reached end of life in 1999 and don't have any software or manuals for them. Does anyone remember how to program and use these? They're half length 8-bit ISA cards. Joe From cb at mythtech.net Wed Feb 4 16:50:42 2004 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:08 2005 Subject: IBM PC5150 monitor wanted/question Message-ID: >But if you don't and you still want to get rid of them then let me or >the list know and someone will surely take them. Don't throw them out. A few months ago, I couldn't give them away! I tried, no one would take the things. > BTW my 5150 has the monochrome monitor but it doesn't have the original >MDA card so if you don't need your's anymore I could use it. Humm... I'm nearly positive I chucked a small pile of them a month or so ago. I'll have a look and see if I have any more. -chris From jtr_1_only at hotmail.com Wed Feb 4 14:45:32 2004 From: jtr_1_only at hotmail.com (JT Reynolds) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:08 2005 Subject: Restoring old floppies to usable state References: Message-ID: Try http://www.knightsolutions.com.au/files/apps/spinrite%205/ This program runs on any IBM compatible. If you have such with the correct drive type then this program will exhaustively test and repair the surface of any drive you care to test. ----- Original Message ----- From: "chris" To: "Classic Computers" Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2004 7:39 AM Subject: Re: Restoring old floppies to usable state > I'll run a few disks thru a PC to use better surface testing tools (any > of my good Mac tools are either not readily available, or will only run > on newer macs that have problems with 800k disks in the best of > situations, so I wouldn't be able to trust the results to the disk or the > mac being the source of error) > > > Thanks > > -chris > > > From RCini at congressfinancial.com Wed Feb 4 13:11:26 2004 From: RCini at congressfinancial.com (Cini, Richard) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:08 2005 Subject: Forced eBay ID Change? Message-ID: <69DBC74E5784D6119BEA0090271EB8E5FA436E@MAIL10> Actually, they gave ample warning that this was going to happen. It's supposedly to prevent spammers and other nare-do-well's from culling email addresses from the member IDs. I changed mine before the deadline because I knew that I'd wind-up with an AOL-looking ID if I didn't (like "dorkus1277574") Rich -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Marvin Johnston Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2004 2:10 PM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: Forced eBay ID Change? "Zane H. Healy" wrote: > > Anyone else have their eBay ID forcefully changed recently? I've had an account for over 6 years and I predate the rules against using an email address. Looks like the b******* have decided to forcefully change all of us using email addresses for our ID's so as to better control the flow of information to us. Yes, mine was also changed *without* my permission. IMNSHO, they are attempting to divert attention from the incompetant operations people. They are idiots. From r.lasbury at ntlworld.com Wed Feb 4 14:17:06 2004 From: r.lasbury at ntlworld.com (Robin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:08 2005 Subject: Help wanted with an Open VMS installation Message-ID: <000001c3eb5b$e1393580$0200a8c0@Gamma> The show device command displays the ethernet connection followed by the CDROM as.. BOOTDEV=DKA500 ADDR=A/5/0 DEVTYPE=RODISK NUMBYTES=681.88MB RM/FX=RM WP=WP DEVNAM=CD-ROM REV=1.1C and it shows the hard disk as... BOOTDEV=DKA100 ADDR=A/1/0 DEVTYPE=DISK NUMBYTES=1.00GB RM/FX=Fx WP= DEVNAM=RZ57 REV=5000 I have actually tried 5 different hard disks: 3 seagate models and 2 original DEC RZ57 drives, but they all end with the same error message while installing!!! I have proved the 3 seagate disks on a scsi card on a PC and the 2 DEC drives work OK on a DEC 5000 machine booting up a copy of Ultrix, so I am pretty sure the problem is not actually with the disk drives. _____ << ella for Spam Control >> has removed 1854 Spam messages and set aside 242 Newsletters for me You can use it too - and it's FREE! www.ellaforspam.com From KParker at workcover.com Wed Feb 4 16:29:59 2004 From: KParker at workcover.com (Parker, Kevin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:08 2005 Subject: 5.25 disks/programs available Message-ID: <3A9F9A4AE5E0D311865700508B97404D0C31EBE8@ex1.internal.workcover.sa.gov.au> Where are you located +++++++++++++++++++ Kevin Parker Web Services Manager WorkCover Corporation p: 08 8233 2548 e: webmaster@workcover.com w: www.workcover.com +++++++++++++++++++ -----Original Message----- From: SUPRDAVE@aol.com [mailto:SUPRDAVE@aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, 4 February 2004 5:52 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: 5.25 disks/programs available I scavenged some old disks from someone that was cleaning up their office after moving. Listed below is some items someone might want. Otherwise, I'll just format and keep them for extras. They all look like new and seem to be unused. system disks for Dell system200 pc. DOS/gwbasic/utilities borland turboC 1986 5disk set Microtek USD-III 1.0 5 disk set x6800 assembler something called matrix desktop. 8 disk set Turbo C++ 10 disk set procomm plus 2 disk set MS mouse and paintbrush, several copies of each MSDOS 4.01 from TRC techology research. Has the old style ms logo on them. 6 disk set MS windows 3.0 from z-nix company 5 disk set pay for shipping and they can be yours ************************************************************************ This e-mail is intended for the use of the addressee only. It may contain information that is protected by legislated confidentiality and/or is legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient you are prohibited from disseminating, distributing or copying this e-mail. Any opinion expressed in this e-mail may not necessarily be that of the WorkCover Corporation of South Australia. Although precautions have been taken, the sender cannot warrant that this e-mail or any files transmitted with it are free of viruses or any other defect. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail and destroy the original e-mail and any copies. ************************************************************************ From pkoning at equallogic.com Wed Feb 4 16:47:33 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:08 2005 Subject: gcc cross compiler for PDP-11 Message-ID: <16417.30341.186000.142416@gargle.gargle.HOWL> X-Mailer: VM 7.17 under 21.4 (patch 14) "Reasonable Discussion" XEmacs Lucid FCC: ~/mail/archive --text follows this line-- >> concerning gcc/binuils & pdp-11 >> >> - gcc's (3.3.2) backend generates "unix" style asm >> - gas wants "gas" style asm and doesn't like the "unix" style asm >> - the pdp-11 gcc maintainer knows this and has some fixes which he's >> going to release soon > > GCC version 3.x generates code that, um, sucks. For most C-based > programming, there is absolutely no reason to "upgrade" beyond the > older (V2.95.3) release, which works fine with the pdp11 backend. There are plenty of day one bugs in the pdp11 backend. Some have been fixed recently, others remain. It may be that the 2.95 version did a better job of float handling than the early 3.x series, but I don't think it actually gets it right. And there were problems with -(SP) and (SP)+ modes for bytes... The calculation of instruction lengths (to select between branches and "long branches") is also wrong. I volunteered to take up the pdp11 backend maintainer slot, and I'm trying to get some of these fixes in. It would sure help if I could get explicit input. "It sucks" is not data I can use to improve what's there. If people know of problems, please submit bug reports. (Bug reports submitted by the standard gcc bug submittal process would be best.) By the way, the gcc backend generates either "dec" or "unix" output; the "dec" output isn't technically valid dec syntax but it IS valid gas syntax. paul From pkoning at equallogic.com Wed Feb 4 17:00:44 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:08 2005 Subject: DECnet/E and DECnet-Plus Message-ID: <16417.31132.739667.895894@gargle.gargle.HOWL> X-Mailer: VM 7.17 under 21.4 (patch 14) "Reasonable Discussion" XEmacs Lucid FCC: ~/mail/archive --text follows this line-- Two points: 1. DECnet/E only supports the "old" network terminal protocol, which is object 21. The other one is "CTERM" which is implemented by VMS and one or two other operating systems, but not DECnet/E. In fact, I think none of the PDP11s do it; it's way too complex. 2. DECnet/E works fine on E11. It's been a while since I've tried that but I did use it, under Linux that is. I was using the "tap" pseudo-ethernet to debug DECnet/Linux against DECnet/E... FWIW, there's an implementation of the "old" network terminal protocol in the DECnet/Linux kit; with some hacking you can probably port that and use it to talk to DECnet/E that way. paul From patrick at evocative.com Wed Feb 4 17:13:37 2004 From: patrick at evocative.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:08 2005 Subject: Looking for HDOS diskette layout In-Reply-To: <200402042114.NAA03879@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: Dwight, IIRC, the directory itself is in the DIRECT.SYS file created by INIT. There's also a GRC.SYS file, which is the group reservation table (a group being similar to a cluster), and I think there's one more file as well... Patrick > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Dwight K. Elvey > Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2004 1:14 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Looking for HDOS diskette layout > > > Hi Tom > Nope. HDOS is a completely different OS. As I recall, > the directory is somplace in the middle of the disk. > Dwight > > > >From: "Tom Jennings" > > > >On Wed, 2004-02-04 at 08:21, Marvin Johnston wrote: > > > >> Does anyone know or have a reference regarding the > >> layout of the HDOS (H8/H19) diskette and filesystem? > >> The generic HDOS documentation doesn't include it. > > > >Isn't it just CP/M 1.4? > > > > > > > From patrick at evocative.com Wed Feb 4 17:14:53 2004 From: patrick at evocative.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:08 2005 Subject: Forced eBay ID Change? In-Reply-To: <005101c3eb62$847c5910$1a02a8c0@starship1> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Curt vendel > Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2004 1:05 PM > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: Forced eBay ID Change? > > > Well, I doubt thats gonna do any good as it seems someone from > the inside is > feeding/selling user accounts, I've never used my email address > anywhere on > ebay, yet I've received plenty of ebay related scammer emails with some > personal ebay only info contained within them.... Curt... hmmmm.... I changed the email address on my eBay account about three months ago due to too much spam on the old address, and sure enough, spam started showing up in the new address almost immediately (a not-easily-guessed address, BTW). --Patrick From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Feb 4 17:17:11 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:08 2005 Subject: Forced eBay ID Change? In-Reply-To: <40216F65.7070109@atarimuseum.com> from "Curt Vendel" at Feb 04, 2004 05:17:09 PM Message-ID: <200402042317.i14NHBj3024981@onyx.spiritone.com> > Don't forget the other thing.... ebay raised its fee's to all the user > accounts Monday, they cut off some refunds and oh...but they did reduced > posting on their front page from $99.99 to $39.99 woo hoo :-P BLEEP! I hadn't heard about that one. Just as my wife is getting ready to start listing a bunch of my excess computer stuff :^( At the rate they're going it won't be worth the effort to use them, it'll be cheaper to dump stuff on "BadWill". Zane From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Feb 4 17:19:10 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:08 2005 Subject: Forced eBay ID Change? In-Reply-To: <69DBC74E5784D6119BEA0090271EB8E5FA436E@MAIL10> from "Cini, Richard" at Feb 04, 2004 02:11:26 PM Message-ID: <200402042319.i14NJBiK025038@onyx.spiritone.com> > Actually, they gave ample warning that this was going to happen. It's > supposedly to prevent spammers and other nare-do-well's from culling email > addresses from the member IDs. > > I changed mine before the deadline because I knew that I'd wind-up with an > AOL-looking ID if I didn't (like "dorkus1277574") > > Rich OK, I'll bite, just where have these warnings been? Locked in a cabinet that is buried in cement, in the sub-basement of their office in Hong Kong? Zane From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Feb 4 17:22:25 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:08 2005 Subject: Help wanted with an Open VMS installation In-Reply-To: <000001c3eb5b$e1393580$0200a8c0@Gamma> from "Robin" at Feb 04, 2004 08:17:06 PM Message-ID: <200402042322.i14NMPfN025126@onyx.spiritone.com> Are you trying to use the Hobbyist V3 CD to install from? I was helping a coworker install VMS on her DEC 3000, and we couldn't get it to install on any of the HD's we tried. Finally I pulled out a copy of something like 7.2-2 (Real Compaq CD's), and it installed just fine. One of the two Hobbyist V3 CD's we had access to wouldn't even boot the DEC 3000. Zane > The show device command displays the ethernet connection followed by > > the CDROM as.. > BOOTDEV=DKA500 > ADDR=A/5/0 > DEVTYPE=RODISK > NUMBYTES=681.88MB > RM/FX=RM > WP=WP > DEVNAM=CD-ROM > REV=1.1C > > and it shows the hard disk as... > BOOTDEV=DKA100 > ADDR=A/1/0 > DEVTYPE=DISK > NUMBYTES=1.00GB > RM/FX=Fx > WP= > DEVNAM=RZ57 > REV=5000 > > I have actually tried 5 different hard disks: 3 seagate models and 2 > original DEC RZ57 drives, but they all end with the same error message > while installing!!! I have proved the 3 seagate disks on a scsi card on > a PC and the 2 DEC drives work OK on a DEC 5000 machine booting up a > copy of Ultrix, so I am pretty sure the problem is not actually with the > disk drives. From donm at cts.com Wed Feb 4 17:30:35 2004 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:08 2005 Subject: Looking for HDOS diskette layout In-Reply-To: <200402042114.NAA03879@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Feb 2004, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > Hi Tom > Nope. HDOS is a completely different OS. As I recall, > the directory is somplace in the middle of the disk. > Dwight If HDOS is the same as ZDOS - and I assume that it is - it is an MSDOS related system and uses an 820K DOS format (512x8) with the two copies of the FAT on sectors 2 and 3 and the Directory starting on 4. - don > >From: "Tom Jennings" > > > >On Wed, 2004-02-04 at 08:21, Marvin Johnston wrote: > > > >> Does anyone know or have a reference regarding the > >> layout of the HDOS (H8/H19) diskette and filesystem? > >> The generic HDOS documentation doesn't include it. > > > >Isn't it just CP/M 1.4? > > > > > > > From gessler at ucla.edu Wed Feb 4 17:40:34 2004 From: gessler at ucla.edu (Nicholas Gessler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:08 2005 Subject: Forced eBay ID Change? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.2.20040204153808.020d0148@mail.ucla.edu> If you used your email address for an ID, my guess is that they will ask you to change it so that all initial communications between buyer and seller will go through eBay. I am sure they read this mail, to find out how much money they are loosing. But I am also fairly sure they treat this as a statistic and will not act against any specific individual for what that person says. It is clear that they know that many people make contact through eBay and then go on to buy and sell off the eBay site. Nick At 10:04 AM 2/4/2004, you wrote: >Anyone else have their eBay ID forcefully changed recently? I've had an >account for over 6 years and I predate the rules against using an email >address. Looks like the b******* have decided to forcefully change all of >us using email addresses for our ID's so as to better control the flow of >information to us. > > Zane From teoz at neo.rr.com Wed Feb 4 17:41:36 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:08 2005 Subject: need drivers/manual for M-Systems PC-FD card References: <3.0.6.32.20040204173915.00828480@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <016801c3eb78$6db7c9b0$0500fea9@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe R." To: Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2004 5:39 PM Subject: need drivers/manual for M-Systems PC-FD card > I found a box full of these today. They appear to be disk drive > emulators using Flash memory. M-systems is still in business but they say > that these reached end of life in 1999 and don't have any software or > manuals for them. Does anyone remember how to program and use these? > They're half length 8-bit ISA cards. > > Joe > What model do you have? I dug up my Industrial Computer Source Catalog from 1999 (Edition 1) and on page 59 they have the PCFD family of FLASH disks. PCFD 1V to PCFD 32V ( 1,2,3,8,16,32 mb FLASH disk, ISA Bus Card half length). They also came in PC/104 versions. It states there are no drivers required. "The "disk" becomes immediately available as either drive D: if you already have a fixed disk, or drive C: if it is the only "fixed disk" in the system. It can work in conjunction with floppy disk drives. Up to four boards can be installed in a system providing up to 128MB of FLASH DISK drive" Features: Up to 128MB FLASH Drive Capacity ISA and PC/104 Models Fill Read/Write Capabilities No Drivers Required Bootable Flash File System MS-DOS, DR-DOS and Windows Compatible Hope this is of help, I think I had full M-Systems catalogs back in the 1990's but probably left them at my old employer back in 1999. From jcwren at jcwren.com Wed Feb 4 17:45:55 2004 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:08 2005 Subject: BadWill for Zane (was Re: Forced eBay ID Change?) In-Reply-To: <200402042317.i14NHBj3024981@onyx.spiritone.com> References: <200402042317.i14NHBj3024981@onyx.spiritone.com> Message-ID: <40218433.1040007@jcwren.com> Zane H. Healy wrote: >>Don't forget the other thing.... ebay raised its fee's to all the user >>accounts Monday, they cut off some refunds and oh...but they did reduced >>posting on their front page from $99.99 to $39.99 woo hoo :-P >> >> > >BLEEP! I hadn't heard about that one. Just as my wife is getting ready to >start listing a bunch of my excess computer stuff :^( At the rate they're >going it won't be worth the effort to use them, it'll be cheaper to dump >stuff on "BadWill". > > Zane > > If you're dumping an IMSAI or SOL-20, the back of my truck says "BadWill" for your convienence. --jc From curt at atarimuseum.com Wed Feb 4 17:44:31 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:09 2005 Subject: Forced eBay ID Change? References: <200402042319.i14NJBiK025038@onyx.spiritone.com> Message-ID: <000601c3eb78$d605c0d0$1a02a8c0@starship1> I never saw any such thing, other then Ebay themselves spamming me with their bull$%& promo crap that I never asked for, but for some reason I am subscribed too all of a sudden and then last month the email about the increase in prices starting Feb 1st. Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Zane H. Healy" To: Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2004 6:19 PM Subject: Re: Forced eBay ID Change? > > Actually, they gave ample warning that this was going to happen. It's > > supposedly to prevent spammers and other nare-do-well's from culling email > > addresses from the member IDs. > > > > I changed mine before the deadline because I knew that I'd wind-up with an > > AOL-looking ID if I didn't (like "dorkus1277574") > > > > Rich > > OK, I'll bite, just where have these warnings been? Locked in a cabinet > that is buried in cement, in the sub-basement of their office in Hong Kong? > > Zane From cb at mythtech.net Wed Feb 4 17:46:17 2004 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:09 2005 Subject: Restoring old floppies to usable state Message-ID: >Try http://www.knightsolutions.com.au/files/apps/spinrite%205/ > >This program runs on any IBM compatible. If you have such with the correct >drive type then this program will exhaustively test and repair the surface >of any drive you care to test. I have a newer version of spinrite, and am VERY VERY VERY disappointed in it. I used it to check some hard disks that I thought were bad, it told me I was right, and I had it map out the bad sectors. The disks still failed to format. Others that is has fixed (and enabled them to format) failed shortly after with bad sectors. And of course, SpinRite only seems to do something if the drive itself is already accessible to DOS. If the drive isn't coming up (from as little as a non DOS compliant partition such as a Linux partition), then SpinRite will claim it can't read the drive at all. So basically, I've found that it doesn't seem to do much beyond that of Scandisk. VERY disappointing indeed considering GRC's reputation. -chris From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Feb 4 17:49:40 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:09 2005 Subject: BadWill for Zane (was Re: Forced eBay ID Change?) In-Reply-To: <40218433.1040007@jcwren.com> from "J.C. Wren" at Feb 04, 2004 06:45:55 PM Message-ID: <200402042349.i14NnehB026158@onyx.spiritone.com> > If you're dumping an IMSAI or SOL-20, the back of my truck says > "BadWill" for your convienence. > > --jc Don't worry, I'd offer stuff for pickup before dumping it there, and the IMSAI *WON'T* be dumped there (I don't even have a SOL-20). Zane From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Feb 4 17:01:25 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:09 2005 Subject: True Data Corp Apple card In-Reply-To: <20040203.130952.4168.124391@webmail22.nyc.untd.com> from "Harve" at Feb 3, 4 09:09:06 pm Message-ID: > > > > > I have come across an Apple IIe with a True Data Corporation card in it. > > S/N 0267 model 350405901 rev a > cable out to 25pin female D > 4 dip switches > > Sure would like to know what it is for! :) And, of course, would love to find the dip switch info. Any large (>24 pin) chips on the board other than EPROMs? If so, what are their numbers? -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Feb 4 17:07:35 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:09 2005 Subject: 'melted' tape roller In-Reply-To: from "Witchy" at Feb 4, 4 09:23:58 am Message-ID: > > I don't think an O-ring is very suitable here, you want > > something with a rectangluar cross-section. > > Does it have to be? Though I suppose I need something that's solid and not > liable to shift around so the speed of the drive will be constant. The reason for wanting the rectangular cross-section is that it will increase the contact area. Constant speed probably isn't _that_ important. On most of these units, the idler is only used for rewind and fast forward (and maybe for driving the takeup spool clutch in play/record modes). The tape speed is determined by the capstan and pinch roller in play and record (which is when it really matters). > There's a car interior restorer just down the road from here - they might > know, though with a name like 'northumbrian leather interiors' they might > not :) Thinks... There used to be a company called 'Eastwood Tools' somewhere near Bristol (Yate???). They're the sort of place that would have stocked it. Dunno if they're still around, though. > > > This is a full-size platten, in 2 parts, with differential > > gearing between them (to keep the paper running straight!). > > Should be 'interesting' to repair... > > Ick - sounds like fun! Yeah, the service manual just tells you to replace the platten. At least I know how to take it apart. It's a zog. I have loads of spare parts for this machine (complete set of PCBs, front cover, control panel, motor, nib PCB, back electrode assembly, etc). But no spare platten. Mind you, a spare would be old by now and would probably have decayed... -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Feb 4 17:22:26 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:09 2005 Subject: IBM PC5150 monitor wanted/question In-Reply-To: <1edf01c3eb4f$f265afc0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> from "Jay West" at Feb 4, 4 12:51:49 pm Message-ID: > > I have an IBM PC 5150 system unit and keyboard. I popped the cover and it > has a Paradise Multi Video or somesuch card in it. The card has two DB9 > connectors, an RCA connector in the middle, and a little slide switch at the > top. This is _probably_ a combination MDA(or Hercules?) and CGA card, with the slide switch selecting between them. One DE9 connectors (there is no such thing as a DB9!) is probably for the monitor, the other may well be for something like a bus mouse (!). The RCA socket is probably composite NTSC out in CGA mode, and some totally non-standard thing in MDA mode (if it's active at all). There was a popular multi-I/O card in the UK (it came in Opus PCs, but it turns up elswehre) that had that layout of connectors on the bracket. There were also headers on the board for 1 or 2 serial ports, a parallel port, floppy controller, and a joystick port (IIRC). Now, how to be more certain... Firstly, note that on MDA, CGA, and EGA, pin 1 of the DE9 is grounded. That may be enough to identify which connector is for a monitor. On MDA and CGA, pin 2 is also ground, but it's one of the colour signals on EGA. So you can probably eliminate EGA fairly easily. However, genuine IBM EGA cards (and some good clones) have a jumper which connects pin 2 of the monitor connector either to ground or to the appropriate colour signal. The IBM EGA card will drive an MDA or CGA monitor (you don't get all the EGA modes, but you get more than an MDA or CGA card would give you). You could check for this jumper, it's normally near the DE9 conenctor. If you've identified the monitor connector, then on MDA/CGA, and EGA connectors, the syncs are pins 8 and 9. Power up the machine and connect a frequency counter (or 'scope with a reasonably accurate timebase) to each of those pins in turn. I normally use the LogicDart. Note down the scan rates with the slide switch in each position (Power down the machine before moving the switch, then power up again). Most likely one will be TV rates (15570 Hz horizontal, 60Hz vertical), that's CGA. The other will be somewhat faster horizotnally (around 18kHz?) -- that's MDA. If you can get it working in CGA mode, try connecting the RCA socket to the composite input on a TV or VCR to see if you get a picture. > > Here's the deal: I'd like someday to find an authentic IBM brand monitor for Since you want an IBM brand monitor, it would appear you're trying to make the machine 'stock IBM'. In which case you really want to get an IBM video card too. THey're not that rare. And schematics exist should you get a non-working one. My first PC/XT (still running) had been 'upgraded' by the previous owner who'd fitted that multi I/O card I mentioned earlier. Fortunately he'd kept the original IBM MDA card. First thing I did was swap it back. I then spent a long time tracking down an IBM CGA card to go alongside it. No idea how easy these monitors are to find now. I have all of them (and am not selling). The PC/XT I mentioned came with a 5151 MDA monitor (which is now on my hacked PC/AT, and which I am using now). My first CGA monitor was an NEC TTL RGB monitor which had been used with an Apple ][ (with a special card in slot 7). I modified the video circuitry of that monitor (a few more resistors, and using the spare sections of some buffer chips) to add the I signal. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Feb 4 17:27:55 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:09 2005 Subject: 'melted' tape roller In-Reply-To: from "Witchy" at Feb 4, 4 06:59:59 pm Message-ID: > > You would be too if everyone just threw out their broken VCR > > and bought a new one instead of trying to have it repaired :\ > > Yes, there is that, particularly since he charged something like ukp50 just FWIW, when I do 'chargeable' repairs (for HPCC members, when the machine in question actually ends up on my bench, rather than just being a quick fix at a meeting), then I charge that sort of price. I don't regard this as unreasonable. It can take a _lot_ of time to actually track down the fault (curing it is the easy part, once it's found). Maybe I'm clueless, but it took me 4 hours to sort out a 9114A disk drive which had blown transistors in the head switching circuit. 4 hours included cleaning and re-lubricating the eject mechnanism (a 'stock fault' in these units), tracing the fault, soldering in 3 new SMD transistors, checking the alignment of the drive, setting up the controller adjustments, etc. And yes, I had the schematics. Without them it would have taken even longer... -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Feb 4 17:31:47 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:09 2005 Subject: 'melted' tape roller In-Reply-To: <1075925857.2091.11.camel@dhcp-251175> from "Tom Jennings" at Feb 4, 4 12:17:38 pm Message-ID: > > On Tue, 2004-02-03 at 16:05, Tony Duell wrote: > > > You might find an 'idler tyre' for a VCR would work if you can get one > > the right size. You want to go to a _good_ VCR spares/repair place and > > see if they can match it up. > > YOu can also turn rubber pretty easily on a small drill press. The real A small lathe is even better, but note that the cutting tool is very different in angle from that used for metal turning! Freezing the rubber in liquid nitrogen helps (it makes it a lot firmer), if you happen to have the liquid nitrogen.... -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Feb 4 17:34:30 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:09 2005 Subject: 'melted' tape roller In-Reply-To: <003301c3eb61$6cfbc420$bf414ed5@geoff> from "Geoffrey Thomas" at Feb 4, 4 08:43:40 pm Message-ID: > > Only too true, not too long ago , a company was advertising the bare rubber > sections for pinch rollers etc. for almost any Vcr you could mention - I > haven't seen them advertise for months , and the phone no. is no longer > valid. - They are (were?) JJ Electronics somewhere in London nw9. I think Grandata (Wembley, North London) are still going. They used to have a lot of VCR rubber parts (belts, pinch rollers, idlers) in stock, and their prices were good. I've not needed anything like that for a bit, but they're still advertising in Television magazine. Dunno if Manor Supplies do VCR parts, but they're still going in Edgware (they moved from Weat Hamstead a few years ago). -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Feb 4 17:36:20 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:09 2005 Subject: BT Merlin Tonto screen buzzing/screeching In-Reply-To: from "Witchy" at Feb 4, 4 08:48:44 pm Message-ID: > Anyone seen screeching monitors before? Well, SMPSUs screech if the electrolytics dry up. Some monitors use SMPSUs, and anyway the horizontal output stage of most monitors _is_ an SMPSU type of circuit. So I would suspect dead capacitors in the PSU or horizontal output sections. -tony From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Feb 4 18:04:24 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:09 2005 Subject: need drivers/manual for M-Systems PC-FD card In-Reply-To: <016801c3eb78$6db7c9b0$0500fea9@game> References: <3.0.6.32.20040204173915.00828480@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040204190424.008b47d0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 06:41 PM 2/4/04 -0500, you wrote: > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Joe R." >To: >Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2004 5:39 PM >Subject: need drivers/manual for M-Systems PC-FD card > > >> I found a box full of these today. They appear to be disk drive >> emulators using Flash memory. M-systems is still in business but they say >> that these reached end of life in 1999 and don't have any software or >> manuals for them. Does anyone remember how to program and use these? >> They're half length 8-bit ISA cards. >> >> Joe >> > >What model do you have? PC-FD with two 1Mbyte Flash chips. Oops! Juat found a sticker that says Pc-FD-2 so I'm sure that it's a 2Mb card. BTW there are lots of unused pads for more ICs. I wonder if more Flash memory can be added? > >I dug up my Industrial Computer Source Catalog from 1999 (Edition 1) and on >page 59 they have the PCFD family of FLASH disks. > >PCFD 1V to PCFD 32V ( 1,2,3,8,16,32 mb FLASH disk, ISA Bus Card half >length). They also came in PC/104 versions. > >It states there are no drivers required. One website that I found hinted that but I wasn't sure. It hints that the programming Sw is built into the cards on-board BIOS but no hint about how to access it. > >"The "disk" becomes immediately available as either drive D: if you already >have a fixed disk, or drive C: if it is the only "fixed disk" in the system. >It can work in conjunction with floppy disk drives. Up to four boards can be >installed in a system providing up to 128MB of FLASH DISK drive" That sounds right. There's jumpers on the card to set them to any one of four addresses. > >Features: > >Up to 128MB FLASH Drive Capacity >ISA and PC/104 Models >Fill Read/Write Capabilities >No Drivers Required >Bootable Flash File System >MS-DOS, DR-DOS and Windows Compatible > > >Hope this is of help, I think I had full M-Systems catalogs back in the >1990's but probably left them at my old employer back in 1999. Yes, that helps clarify things a bit. Thanks. Joe From jpl15 at panix.com Wed Feb 4 18:04:50 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:09 2005 Subject: VAX 4300 on eBay Message-ID: For those of you with intact usernames, there is the following: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3076049197&category=1479 $50 min bid; 6 days; no action as of this posting; in Florida. Cheers John From patrick at evocative.com Wed Feb 4 18:15:11 2004 From: patrick at evocative.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:09 2005 Subject: BadWill for Zane (was Re: Forced eBay ID Change?) In-Reply-To: <40218433.1040007@jcwren.com> Message-ID: > >BLEEP! I hadn't heard about that one. Just as my wife is > getting ready to > >start listing a bunch of my excess computer stuff :^( At the > rate they're > >going it won't be worth the effort to use them, it'll be cheaper to dump > >stuff on "BadWill". Sellam isn't chiming in yet, so I will... Vintage Computer Marketplace is FREE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! http://marketplace.vintage.org/ Patrick From teoz at neo.rr.com Wed Feb 4 18:26:26 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:09 2005 Subject: need drivers/manual for M-Systems PC-FD card References: <3.0.6.32.20040204173915.00828480@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20040204190424.008b47d0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <01d001c3eb7e$b325a020$0500fea9@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe R." To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2004 7:04 PM Subject: Re: need drivers/manual for M-Systems PC-FD card > At 06:41 PM 2/4/04 -0500, you wrote: > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Joe R." > >To: > >Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2004 5:39 PM > >Subject: need drivers/manual for M-Systems PC-FD card > > PC-FD with two 1Mbyte Flash chips. Oops! Juat found a sticker that says > Pc-FD-2 so I'm sure that it's a 2Mb card. BTW there are lots of unused pads > for more ICs. I wonder if more Flash memory can be added? The picture in the catalog shows a card with 4 rows by 4 columns of chips (doesn't show the back side) so its either the 16V or 32V. I would assume its the same board you have just has more chips added, not sure if the BIOS is universal, so if you have a boxload of these try adding 2 more chips from another card and see if it boots up to 4mb or not. FLASH memory does wear out during multiple write cycles so the more you use it the less memory you will have (the board has software to minimize the losses). The specifications show 100,000 minimum cycles per bit. From pat at computer-refuge.org Wed Feb 4 18:41:37 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:09 2005 Subject: VAX 4300 on eBay In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200402041941.37286.pat@computer-refuge.org> On Wednesday 04 February 2004 19:04, John Lawson wrote: > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3076049197 > > $50 min bid; 6 days; no action as of this posting; in Florida. Yeah, I saw that one, he just relisted it for $50 instead of $99. If it was closer to me, I'd be more tempted to go get it. But I'd prefer to have something faster, or get the KA660 that should have been in my 4000/200, instead of the KA640 that's in it now. :( However, early next week, I shall finally be receiving my 11/750. :) That reminds me - does anyone have a UNIBUS disk controller (SMD or ESDI or RQDX-like or at least an RL11) that they'd want to trade something for? Right now it's just got a MASSBUS adapter in it, and I don't (yet) have any MASSBUS disks, although I hope to get some at some point and make that happy. Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ From jpl15 at panix.com Wed Feb 4 18:51:06 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:09 2005 Subject: VAX 4300 on eBay In-Reply-To: <200402041941.37286.pat@computer-refuge.org> References: <200402041941.37286.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Feb 2004, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > On Wednesday 04 February 2004 19:04, John Lawson wrote: > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3076049197 > > > > $50 min bid; 6 days; no action as of this posting; in Florida. > > Yeah, I saw that one, he just relisted it for $50 instead of $99. If it > was closer to me, I'd be more tempted to go get it. But I'd prefer to Another thing to watch is the seller has some fairly serious neg feedback... just Caveat Bidder... Cheers John From vax3900 at yahoo.com Wed Feb 4 19:15:48 2004 From: vax3900 at yahoo.com (SHAUN RIPLEY) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:09 2005 Subject: VAX 4300 on eBay In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040205011548.64654.qmail@web60707.mail.yahoo.com> --- John Lawson wrote: > > > On Wed, 4 Feb 2004, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > > > On Wednesday 04 February 2004 19:04, John Lawson > wrote: > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3076049197 > > > > > > $50 min bid; 6 days; no action as of this > posting; in Florida. > > > > Yeah, I saw that one, he just relisted it for $50 > instead of $99. If it > > was closer to me, I'd be more tempted to go get > it. But I'd prefer to > > > Another thing to watch is the seller has some > fairly serious neg > feedback... just Caveat Bidder... Yet another thing is that it is not a VAX4300, But an R400X expension unit... __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/ From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Feb 4 20:25:11 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:09 2005 Subject: Looking for HDOS diskette layout In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040204182211.R82700@newshell.lmi.net> > > Nope. HDOS is a completely different OS. As I recall, > > the directory is somplace in the middle of the disk. > > Dwight > > If HDOS is the same as ZDOS - and I assume that it is - it is an On a H8/H19 ????? > MSDOS related system and uses an 820K DOS format (512x8) with the > two copies of the FAT on sectors 2 and 3 and the Directory > starting on 4. 512 x 8 would usually give you 640K 512 x 9 would usually give you 720K > > >> Does anyone know or have a reference regarding the > > >> layout of the HDOS (H8/H19) diskette and filesystem? > > >> The generic HDOS documentation doesn't include it. > > >Isn't it just CP/M 1.4? There were a LOT of Heath and Zenith formats, including hard-sectored one, aftermarket soft sector conversions, their own OS, CP/M, and MS-DOS. It would be best to not extrapolate from other models. From vcf at siconic.com Wed Feb 4 20:27:29 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:09 2005 Subject: Need some schematics... anyone? In-Reply-To: <006201c3eb5b$361fa260$6401a8c0@knology.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Feb 2004, Paul Pennington wrote: > > Hey all... I am currently in the process of designing (and hopefully later > building) a > > dual Z80 laptop. The datasheets don't tell me near enough... schematics > would be > > much better... the problem is most homebuilt computers seem to revlove > around > > the 6502 family (at least those on the 'net do). If anyone could point me > to where > > I can find some Z80 schematics I'd greatly apprieciate it. > > There have been a bunch of Z-80 projects over the years. Two books that > describe Z-80 construction projects are: > > Z-80 Microcomputer Design Projects, by William Barden, Jr., Sams, 1980 > > Build Your Own Z80 Computer, by Steve Ciarcia, Byte Books, 1981 > > One other thought: just pick up a Texas Instruments 83+ calculator -- > it has a Z-80 as its CPU. Links from the VCF Link Library in the Vintage Microprocessor Resources: Z80: Home of the Z80 CPU http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Peaks/3938/z80_home.htm Z80 Based Projects: http://themotionstore.com/leeedavison/z80/ -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Wed Feb 4 20:29:34 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:09 2005 Subject: IBM PC5150 monitor wanted/question In-Reply-To: <40215573.CC877B99@rain.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Feb 2004, Marvin Johnston wrote: > Thanks to a heads up about this several years ago by Sellam, I started I'm always ahead of the curve ;) (end of shameless self-promotion) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Wed Feb 4 20:37:56 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:09 2005 Subject: Forced eBay ID Change? In-Reply-To: <012a01c3eb6c$4b791e50$0500fea9@game> Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Feb 2004, Teo Zenios wrote: > Considering that eBay is nothing more then a middleman between a buyer and a > seller I can see why they would not want it to be easy for people using the > system to communicate between each other through eBay. You can easily ask > any seller a question you want for any active auction. Right, and with a valid eBay account you can always directly contact other users to offer stuff. True, some of the more goody-two-shoes users may turn you in, but I wouldn't doubt that eBay has some filters in place to flag these messages for review and then restricts accounts where this is happening. > My only problem with eBay to date is not being able to browse auctions more > then a month old to find out the selling price history (or availability) of > things I want to add to my collection. I haven't been burned by them yet so > I cant comment on their customer support over disputes. Yes, that sucks majorly. Wired a couple issues ago had a top 100 ideas kinda article, and one of them was for eBay to keep the listings up past 30 days. Such an unfriendly company... -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Wed Feb 4 20:38:55 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:09 2005 Subject: Forced eBay ID Change? In-Reply-To: <40216F65.7070109@atarimuseum.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Feb 2004, Curt Vendel wrote: > Don't forget the other thing.... ebay raised its fee's to all the user > accounts Monday, they cut off some refunds and oh...but they did reduced > posting on their front page from $99.99 to $39.99 woo hoo :-P Who the hell ever visits the front page anway? I have a link on my personal links page to My eBay so all I ever see is exactly what I want. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From rcini at optonline.net Wed Feb 4 20:48:05 2004 From: rcini at optonline.net (Richard A. Cini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:09 2005 Subject: Forced eBay ID Change? In-Reply-To: <200402042319.i14NJBiK025038@onyx.spiritone.com> Message-ID: <000701c3eb92$7b394810$8201a8c0@bbrdhveies50vd> Nah. I remember getting an email sometime in December indicating that this would happen. There have been reminders...well...hints on the login page that your ID shouldn't be the same as your email address. Admittedly they weren't smacking people in the face with it, but I did notice the email and changed my ID. Rich Rich Cini Collector of classic computers Build Master for the Altair32 Emulation Project Web site: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ /************************************************************/ -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Zane H. Healy Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2004 6:19 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Forced eBay ID Change? > Actually, they gave ample warning that this was going to happen. It's > supposedly to prevent spammers and other nare-do-well's from culling email > addresses from the member IDs. > > I changed mine before the deadline because I knew that I'd wind-up with an > AOL-looking ID if I didn't (like "dorkus1277574") > > Rich OK, I'll bite, just where have these warnings been? Locked in a cabinet that is buried in cement, in the sub-basement of their office in Hong Kong? Zane From aw288 at osfn.org Wed Feb 4 20:54:51 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:09 2005 Subject: Forced eBay ID Change? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Yes, that sucks majorly. Wired a couple issues ago had a top 100 ideas > kinda article, and one of them was for eBay to keep the listings up past > 30 days. Such an unfriendly company... Lots go away after 30 days for a good reason - it cuts down eBay's liability. The company is a middleman, and as soon as they can wash their hands of a deal, the better. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From vcf at siconic.com Wed Feb 4 21:00:48 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:09 2005 Subject: Forced eBay ID Change? In-Reply-To: <200402042317.i14NHBj3024981@onyx.spiritone.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Feb 2004, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > Don't forget the other thing.... ebay raised its fee's to all the user > > accounts Monday, they cut off some refunds and oh...but they did reduced > > posting on their front page from $99.99 to $39.99 woo hoo :-P > > BLEEP! I hadn't heard about that one. Just as my wife is getting ready to > start listing a bunch of my excess computer stuff :^( At the rate they're > going it won't be worth the effort to use them, it'll be cheaper to dump > stuff on "BadWill". This is just the thing to spur a competing service with much better rates. I hope eBay keeps raising their rates. It needs to cause just enough grief to spawn a mass migration to another service. I dream of the day... -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Feb 4 21:01:36 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:09 2005 Subject: Forced eBay ID Change? In-Reply-To: from "Vintage Computer Festival" at Feb 04, 2004 06:38:55 PM Message-ID: <200402050301.i1531acj031902@onyx.spiritone.com> > Who the hell ever visits the front page anway? I have a link on my > personal links page to My eBay so all I ever see is exactly what I want. Me, I've got links to canned searches on my links page for the main things that my wife and I look at. I have to wonder if anyone who goes to eBay any amount of the time bothers to go to the front page. Zane From vcf at siconic.com Wed Feb 4 21:02:49 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:09 2005 Subject: Forced eBay ID Change? In-Reply-To: <200402042317.i14NHBj3024981@onyx.spiritone.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Feb 2004, Zane H. Healy wrote: > BLEEP! I hadn't heard about that one. Just as my wife is getting ready to > start listing a bunch of my excess computer stuff :^( At the rate they're > going it won't be worth the effort to use them, it'll be cheaper to dump > stuff on "BadWill". Well, if it qualifies as classic stuff, list it on the VCM. No fees at all (currently)! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net Wed Feb 4 21:16:45 2004 From: ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:09 2005 Subject: Need some schematics... anyone? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wednesday, February 4, 2004, at 06:27 PM, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Wed, 4 Feb 2004, Paul Pennington wrote: > >>> Hey all... I am currently in the process of designing (and hopefully >>> later >> building) a >>> dual Z80 laptop. Paul, What are you using for output? LCD screen? Where do you get it? From patrick at evocative.com Wed Feb 4 21:25:21 2004 From: patrick at evocative.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:09 2005 Subject: Looking for HDOS diskette layout -- FOUND IT! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I FOUND IT! :-) I knew this info was on line, but it didn't Google. But I did have it printed and buried in a binder, dated January 2002. I went to the site and found that the author, David Shaw, has made some updates since. This might be one of the few pages Google does not seem to have indexed. Typing distinct phrases directly from the text into Google produces no match, although other pages from the same site can be found. Nonetheless, it's here: http://home.comcast.net/~davidwallace2000/h8/project8080_archive/design_h17. html The information is specific to the 5-1/4" hard sector subsystem used with the H-8 and H/Z-88/89/90. The CliffsNotes version: General form is 256 byte sectors, 10 per track, 40 or 80 tracks, single or double-sided (the distribution standard was 40 tracks single-sided). Filesystem structures allow other geometries. Dwight is correct that the system tries to keep the directory in the "center" of the diskette--beginning at track 13 (from zero) for one-sided disks, 26 for double-sided). That space is also mapped to a file called DIRECT.SYS. The directory contains entries each 23 bytes in length, and entry layout is eerily like MS-DOS... 8.3 filenames stored in 11 bytes, the 8-byte name part and 3-byte extension part each zero-filled as needed. Allocation is done in groups of 2, 4, or 8 sectors each. The group reservation table, mapped to a file in the directory called GRT.SYS, again foreshadows MS-DOS: it's an 8-bit FAT. Byte entries in this table correspond to groups on the diskette. The byte value in each entry contains the number of the next group allocated to the file, or 00 if the current group is the last group in the file. Each directory entry points to the first group allocated to a file. The GRT then provides the links from that first group to the next through end of file. The free group list is also stored here, beginning at entry 0. So far so good. Now let's take simple and confuse it a little. There's also a reserved group table, mapped to a file called RGT.SYS (more distinct names would have been nice). Each byte in this map also corresponds to a group. Permanently reserved groups, like the disk label and known-bad blocks, are marked 0xFF. When a disk is mounted, all non-FF entries are zeroed, then the system follows the allocation chain of EVERY file in the directory, incrementing the RGT entry for each reserved group in the GRT. When a group in the RGT has a value >1, a block is allocated to more than one file and a "corrupt disk" message results. The free group list is also rebuilt/rewritten at mount time by this process. Ahhh, no wonder it takes a moment to mount these disks. :-) Free blocks are found by traversing the linked list in the GRT, not scanning for zeroes in the RGT, so the RGT's primary use seems to be that mount check, and it's otherwise little-used. Anyway, there it is, and thanks to David Shaw for providing it. There's information on the physical format as well, which may be more relevant to the poster's purpose based on what I saw of the link posted to his project (a diskette emulator--hmmm, gotta get me one of these when he's done). There were also other controllers with different physical formats, like Magnolia and Heath's own Z-89-37 and -67, as Fred pointed out, and I'm sure CP/M was more commonly used with those controllers than HDOS, but it could/should have worked nonetheless. Patrick P.S. HDOS author Gordon Letwin became an early employee of Microsoft after leaving Heath (1979)--go to the dark side, did he. It stands to reason that he was involved with the creation of MS-DOS, and thus the similarities in underlying structures, although it's also not unreasonable to imagine that Tim Patterson had already examined and borrowed from Gordon's work before Tim brought QDOS to Microsoft. Does anyone know which, or other? > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Don Maslin > Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2004 3:31 PM > To: Dwight K. Elvey; General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: Looking for HDOS diskette layout > > > > > On Wed, 4 Feb 2004, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > > > Hi Tom > > Nope. HDOS is a completely different OS. As I recall, > > the directory is somplace in the middle of the disk. > > Dwight > > If HDOS is the same as ZDOS - and I assume that it is - it is an > MSDOS related system and uses an 820K DOS format (512x8) with the > two copies of the FAT on sectors 2 and 3 and the Directory > starting on 4. > > - don > > > >From: "Tom Jennings" > > > > > >On Wed, 2004-02-04 at 08:21, Marvin Johnston wrote: > > > > > >> Does anyone know or have a reference regarding the > > >> layout of the HDOS (H8/H19) diskette and filesystem? > > >> The generic HDOS documentation doesn't include it. > > > > > >Isn't it just CP/M 1.4? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From bob_lafleur at technologist.com Wed Feb 4 21:30:35 2004 From: bob_lafleur at technologist.com (Bob Lafleur) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:09 2005 Subject: Forced eBay ID Change? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200402042215859.SM01644@bobdev> I just had mine forcibly changed also. I know they've been "suggesing" we change them for a while, but I would have liked some warning and an opportunity to select the ID I want without the "shades" icon appearing before they did it for me. - Bob -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Zane H. Healy Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2004 1:04 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Forced eBay ID Change? Anyone else have their eBay ID forcefully changed recently? I've had an account for over 6 years and I predate the rules against using an email address. Looks like the b******* have decided to forcefully change all of us using email addresses for our ID's so as to better control the flow of information to us. Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Wed Feb 4 21:49:33 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:09 2005 Subject: DEMPR questions Message-ID: <0402050349.AA00851@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Does anyone know how to use a DEMPR? Does it internally terminate each thinwire segment or not? I.e., do you run the end of the trunk directly into the DEMPR or do you T it like every other device on the segment? Do you need to enable/ disable the thickwire uplink port (how?) or is it automatic? What does the button marked with a T in the circle do? What do the indicator lights mean? What happens if the DEMPR is powered down, do the segments simply partition with each segment remaining good by itself, or do the segments themselves become unusable? MS From curt at atarimuseum.com Wed Feb 4 22:03:48 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:09 2005 Subject: Forced eBay ID Change? References: Message-ID: <007101c3eb9d$0f101190$1a02a8c0@starship1> Well, not only that, but think of the costs involved keeping that data online and accessible, we're talking terabytes... Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Donzelli" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Cc: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2004 9:54 PM Subject: Re: Forced eBay ID Change? > > Yes, that sucks majorly. Wired a couple issues ago had a top 100 ideas > > kinda article, and one of them was for eBay to keep the listings up past > > 30 days. Such an unfriendly company... > > Lots go away after 30 days for a good reason - it cuts down eBay's > liability. The company is a middleman, and as soon as they can wash their > hands of a deal, the better. > > William Donzelli > aw288@osfn.org From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Feb 4 22:29:24 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:09 2005 Subject: Restoring old floppies to usable state In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040204202835.U85143@newshell.lmi.net> On Wed, 4 Feb 2004, JT Reynolds wrote: > Try http://www.knightsolutions.com.au/files/apps/spinrite%205/ > This program runs on any IBM compatible. If you have such with the correct > drive type then this program will exhaustively test and repair the surface > of any drive you care to test. But it sure is a mighty cumbersome way to handle the situation, when what was needed and being discussed was bulk erasing floppies! From teoz at neo.rr.com Wed Feb 4 22:39:12 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:10 2005 Subject: Forced eBay ID Change? References: <007101c3eb9d$0f101190$1a02a8c0@starship1> Message-ID: <02bc01c3eba2$00aad1d0$0500fea9@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Curt vendel" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2004 11:03 PM Subject: Re: Forced eBay ID Change? > Well, not only that, but think of the costs involved keeping that data > online and accessible, we're talking terabytes... > > > Curt I know people who have a few TB online in their homes, they don't make billions a year in sales. The pictures are what take up space and quite a bit of those are not even hosted on eBay anyway. What they could do is sell dvd's custom made showing specific items over a specific time period including price sold, pictures and descriptions. I used to be into coin and stamp collecting and one of the things I liked was the beautiful color catalogs they sold (at a decent price) showing the items, a brief description, and pricing expected or realized. I bet allot of people would buy a DVD with the highlights of the years Hummel, coin, baseball card, videogame, car, etc auctions. It would also be cool to have a section where people post what they want to buy and have dealers bid on what they will sell it to you for (reverse of the here is my junk hope somebody wants it way it works now). If the lister liked the price he would then buy the item, there should be a reserve so that if a dealer goes below it then the lister has to buy the lowest bid item. Or do it like priceline.com where I post a want list and my price, first guy with the goods at that price gets my money. Face it eBay owns the online auction market, for them to grow revenue they have to come up with another stream of income other then the standard auction (some of the stuff I mentioned, jacking up the listing fee's, selling my email to spammers, etc.) They already purchased Paypal. From nico at farumdata.dk Wed Feb 4 22:54:07 2004 From: nico at farumdata.dk (Nico de Jong) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:10 2005 Subject: Forced eBay ID Change? References: <1ee901c3eb50$ceb0a520$033310ac@kwcorp.com><001c01c3eb5b$3f2e8330$1a02a8c0@starship1><402154BA.176D3D11@rain.org> <005101c3eb62$847c5910$1a02a8c0@starship1> Message-ID: <001e01c3eba4$16920ca0$2201a8c0@finans> Subject: Re: Forced eBay ID Change? > Well, I doubt thats gonna do any good as it seems someone from the inside is > feeding/selling user accounts, I've never used my email address anywhere on > ebay, yet I've received plenty of ebay related scammer emails with some > personal ebay only info contained within them.... > My wife regularly receives mail from eBay (at least, that is the alledged sender), talking about special offers, account verification, threats to close down her account, etc. The funny thing is, that she never has even _looked_ at eBay. Nico From gkicomputers at yahoo.com Wed Feb 4 23:04:47 2004 From: gkicomputers at yahoo.com (steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:10 2005 Subject: Forced eBay ID Change? In-Reply-To: <007101c3eb9d$0f101190$1a02a8c0@starship1> Message-ID: <20040205050447.83646.qmail@web12402.mail.yahoo.com> --- Curt vendel wrote: > Well, not only that, but think of the costs involved > keeping that data > online and accessible, we're talking terabytes... > > Terabytes, big deal, whats that 5 $120 drives? Or one $1000 drive. With one of those I can fit 5 terabytes in a tower PC. Petabytes is practical and exists currently in industry. Its all ASCII text anyhow with links to pictures(which would be lost), maybe 2000 bytes per auction on average? Ebay had 1 billion auctions listed last year. Thats 2 Petabytes of data. Now if you wanted to store pictures your talking yottabytes. I'd imagine the search fuction is the limiting factor, but I could wait for a slow seach of the previous 2 years of auctions. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Wed Feb 4 23:55:00 2004 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:10 2005 Subject: Shameless Plug Alert: More goodies for auction Message-ID: <200402042155000645.183276D6@192.168.42.129> Hi, gang, Stuff comes in, stuff goes out. I've got a stack of items up on E-pay at the moment, including an IBM PS/2 'Pumpkin' luggable, a VMEBus prototyping board, and a nine-gig SCSI drive in an external enclosure. You can do a 'Search by Seller' for 'bftbell' if you're interested. Thanks much. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech do/t c=o=m "If Salvador Dali had owned a computer, would it have been equipped with surreal ports?" From vcf at siconic.com Thu Feb 5 00:07:43 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:10 2005 Subject: Looking for Cromemco Cyclops Video Camera documentation Message-ID: Does anyone have the documentation for the Cromemco Cyclops Video camera? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Thu Feb 5 00:39:42 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:10 2005 Subject: Forced eBay ID Change? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Feb 2004, William Donzelli wrote: > > Yes, that sucks majorly. Wired a couple issues ago had a top 100 ideas > > kinda article, and one of them was for eBay to keep the listings up past > > 30 days. Such an unfriendly company... > > Lots go away after 30 days for a good reason - it cuts down eBay's > liability. The company is a middleman, and as soon as they can wash their > hands of a deal, the better. I think there are other reasons. eBay has already (successfully so far) argued its immunity from being held as liable, claiming they are only a marketplace (which I wholly agree with, though they should be held liable on account of their policies). I'm sure the real reason is because they actually do sell this data. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Thu Feb 5 00:44:58 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:10 2005 Subject: Forced eBay ID Change? In-Reply-To: <007101c3eb9d$0f101190$1a02a8c0@starship1> Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Feb 2004, Curt vendel wrote: > Well, not only that, but think of the costs involved keeping that data > online and accessible, we're talking terabytes... Bah! It costs pennies per megabyte these days (and getting cheaper by the minute). They don't make it accessible because they want you to PAY for it (just like with everything else). -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Thu Feb 5 00:47:06 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:10 2005 Subject: Forced eBay ID Change? In-Reply-To: <001e01c3eba4$16920ca0$2201a8c0@finans> Message-ID: On Thu, 5 Feb 2004, Nico de Jong wrote: > My wife regularly receives mail from eBay (at least, that is the alledged > sender), talking about special offers, account verification, threats to > close down her account, etc. The funny thing is, that she never has even > _looked_ at eBay. It's not eBay, it's scamspam. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From kelly at fergason.com Wed Feb 4 20:05:32 2004 From: kelly at fergason.com (Kelly Fergason) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:10 2005 Subject: Forced eBay ID Change? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4021A4EC.4090204@fergason.com> Zane H. Healy wrote: >Anyone else have their eBay ID forcefully changed recently? I've had an account for over 6 years and I predate the rules against using an email address. Looks like the b******* have decided to forcefully change all of us using email addresses for our ID's so as to better control the flow of information to us. > > Zane > > the short answer is yes. Kelly From kelly at fergason.com Wed Feb 4 20:05:32 2004 From: kelly at fergason.com (Kelly Fergason) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:10 2005 Subject: Forced eBay ID Change? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4021A4EC.4090204@fergason.com> Zane H. Healy wrote: >Anyone else have their eBay ID forcefully changed recently? I've had an account for over 6 years and I predate the rules against using an email address. Looks like the b******* have decided to forcefully change all of us using email addresses for our ID's so as to better control the flow of information to us. > > Zane > > the short answer is yes. Kelly From mbg at TheWorld.com Wed Feb 4 22:28:08 2004 From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:10 2005 Subject: KXT11 (was: Re: looking for a few items.) Message-ID: <200402050428.XAA19992583@shell.TheWorld.com> >> Interesting. >> >> The field guide lists the M7676 as if it was a single board >> T11, perhaps like Megan's "PDP laptop" from the VCFe. >> Anybody ever seen a M7676 / KXT11 ? >Yes, that sounds like the Falcon SBC, aka the KXT11, which >indeed is a single board computer based on the T11 chipset. The SBC, KXT11-AA and -AB are single-board to the extent that they have the CPU, boot code, memory, clock, a couple of serial lines all on-board. The only thing they don't have is a mass storage interface. I don't know what the 'laptop' I have has in it, I have been unable to successfully open it completely for examination. I think there is a hidden screw I have yet to find and remove. One of these days, however... Megan From vax3900 at yahoo.com Thu Feb 5 01:15:47 2004 From: vax3900 at yahoo.com (SHAUN RIPLEY) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:10 2005 Subject: Forced eBay ID Change? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040205071547.87757.qmail@web60704.mail.yahoo.com> --- Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Thu, 5 Feb 2004, Nico de Jong wrote: > > > My wife regularly receives mail from eBay (at > least, that is the alledged > > sender), talking about special offers, account > verification, threats to > > close down her account, etc. The funny thing is, > that she never has even > > _looked_ at eBay. > > It's not eBay, it's scamspam. Yeah, this reminded me of the way to hack your ebay account: direct you to the fake site and let you log in to verify your account. > > -- > > Sellam Ismail > Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || > Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at > http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Feb 5 01:19:23 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:10 2005 Subject: Shameless Plug Alert: More goodies for auction In-Reply-To: <200402042155000645.183276D6@192.168.42.129> References: <200402042155000645.183276D6@192.168.42.129> Message-ID: > the moment, including an IBM PS/2 'Pumpkin' luggable Now that's cool! What's the CPU? I don't remember ever seeing one of these before. I assume both slots are MCA? Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From thompson at new.rr.com Thu Feb 5 01:34:30 2004 From: thompson at new.rr.com (Paul Thompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:10 2005 Subject: DEMPR questions In-Reply-To: <0402050349.AA00851@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Feb 2004, Michael Sokolov wrote: > Does anyone know how to use a DEMPR? Does it internally terminate each > thinwire segment or not? Yes, it does. DESPR as well, being a DEMPR with fewer plugs soldered on. -- From tosteve at yahoo.com Thu Feb 5 01:35:13 2004 From: tosteve at yahoo.com (steven) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:10 2005 Subject: This just in - Commodore B128 low profile computer (NOT 128D) Message-ID: <20040205073513.81782.qmail@web40902.mail.yahoo.com> Don't know much about it yet, but it sure is pretty! Seems to work fine. It came out the same time as the C-64, supposed to replace the PET and be their business computer, but didn't sell well, I guess. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html From thompson at new.rr.com Thu Feb 5 01:38:22 2004 From: thompson at new.rr.com (Paul Thompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:10 2005 Subject: DEMPR questions In-Reply-To: <0402050349.AA00851@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Feb 2004, Michael Sokolov wrote: > Do you need to enable/ disable the thickwire uplink port (how?) or is it > automatic? Auto > What does the button marked with a T in the circle do? Resets the logic; we had them hang periodically & segment goes dead. > What do the indicator lights mean? Blink to traffic/solid hang as I recall. > What happens if the DEMPR is powered > down, do the segments simply partition with each segment remaining good > by itself, or do the segments themselves become unusable? Don't recall -- From classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk Thu Feb 5 02:02:25 2004 From: classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk (Rob O'Donnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:10 2005 Subject: Forced eBay ID Change? In-Reply-To: References: <005101c3eb62$847c5910$1a02a8c0@starship1> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20040205073328.03879030@pop.freeserve.net> At 15:14 04/02/2004 -0800, Patrick Rigney wrote: >Curt... hmmmm.... I changed the email address on my eBay account about three >months ago due to too much spam on the old address, and sure enough, spam >started showing up in the new address almost immediately (a >not-easily-guessed address, BTW). --Patrick I think it depends on how popular your email provider is. I've created accounts at free mail providers, and NEVER USED THEM, and still had spam appear in their mailbox. Similarly for the major ISPs over here. If you use a "normal" first part, e.g. a single word, a common first or last name, or initial & the same, or an AOL style address of any of the preceding followed by a number, then you'll get hit by the blanket "let's make up as many addresses as we can and see which ones get through" spamming. I see them being bounced in my maillog all the time! (Tip - don't ever let a spam open and show you it's web-linked images - then they know one got through!) Conversely, we have a domain name we sell stuff on, (www russianglasss co uk - waaaaaaay OT for this list,) and have use a sales@ address on ebay for the last nine months - and have never had any of the normal sort of spam arrive at any address on there. Viruses, yep.. Easily traced idiot who added us to their mailing list, yep. SPAM, nope. My very first email address, which I still poll for emails, but never use for outgoing any more, must get over 150 spams a day. At some point I'll have to trawl through and see what legitimately still writes there, and kill it completely, but I've still got a bit of sentiment about that address. It's an ISP address, but they've been taken over in turns about six times, and the original tiny ISP I contracted to (sixteen dial up line) no longer exists... [BTW, Above mentioned idiot address-harvested us from a unique contact address on an ad on ebid.co.uk auction site. A UK Limited Company, very easily traced! We requested they desist mailing us, advised future transgressions would incur a processing charge, received two more emails, and so invoiced them :-) They've not paid yet, so I will be issuing court proceedings at the end of the month. Not only do I have record they opened our emails, they actually replied to one of them asking what address they were writing to. I'd have dropped the matter there, except I got more spam a week later, to the same address! As I said ... Idiots! :-) ] Rob. From nick-classiccmp at rcpt.to Thu Feb 5 02:21:29 2004 From: nick-classiccmp at rcpt.to (Nick Bannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:10 2005 Subject: DEMPR questions In-Reply-To: <0402050349.AA00851@ivan.Harhan.ORG> References: <0402050349.AA00851@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: <20040205082129.GB52837@morwong.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au> On Wed, Feb 04, 2004 at 07:49:33PM -0800, Michael Sokolov wrote: > Does anyone know how to use a DEMPR? Does it internally terminate each thinwire > segment or not? I.e., do you run the end of the trunk directly into the DEMPR > or do you T it like every other device on the segment? You should run the trunk directly into the DEMPR. > Do you need to enable/ > disable the thickwire uplink port (how?) or is it automatic? What does the > button marked with a T in the circle do? What do the indicator lights mean? > What happens if the DEMPR is powered down, do the segments simply partition with > each segment remaining good by itself, or do the segments themselves become > unusable? If a segment becomes unterminated, the DEMPR will isolate it automatically and turn on the indicator light. If the light is off, the segment is fine. Unused ports will have the indicator on. You should check this, but I think ; * The AUI uplink port does not need to be manually enabled * The T button will retest all isolated segments and reenable them if they test OK. * If the DEMPR is powered down, the segments are isolated but usable. Nick. -- Nick Bannon | "I made this letter longer than usual because nick-sig@rcpt.to | I lack the time to make it shorter." - Pascal From wmaddox at pacbell.net Thu Feb 5 02:29:05 2004 From: wmaddox at pacbell.net (William Maddox) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:10 2005 Subject: IBM PC5150 monitor wanted/question References: <3.0.6.32.20040204151454.0080e100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <40215573.CC877B99@rain.org> Message-ID: <007401c3ebc2$1e11ed60$1000a8c0@winxpsp1a2100> A genuine IBM AT was up on EBay a week or two ago. Went cheap, too. Heres an PC, an XT, and AT in one lot: 2785591645 There's not as much stuff from that era as you might expect, considering how popular the IBMs were in their day, but there is stuff to be had. Go get it! :) :) --Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marvin Johnston" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2004 12:26 PM Subject: Re: IBM PC5150 monitor wanted/question > > > "Joe R." wrote: > > > > I can't be certain what your card takes but most cards like that took > > CGA, Monochrome and/or composite monitor. You're right, the old IBM PC > > stuff is getting hard to find. I started looking for it about 1 1/2 years > > ago and I haven't found a single one in the surplus places. Kelvin in > > Atlanta is still finding an occasional one in the thrift stores. He also > > found one at Weird stuff a couple of months ago. > > Thanks to a heads up about this several years ago by Sellam, I started > collecting real IBM cards, software, computers, etc. However, it has > been a year or so since I've seen real IBM PCs or ATs except for the > PS/2 stuff. In this latest cleanup/throw out binge, at least I get a > chance to find and see it again :). From classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk Thu Feb 5 02:59:07 2004 From: classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk (Rob O'Donnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:10 2005 Subject: Forced eBay ID Change? In-Reply-To: References: <200402042317.i14NHBj3024981@onyx.spiritone.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20040205084911.03ccd008@pop.freeserve.net> At 19:00 04/02/2004 -0800, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: >This is just the thing to spur a competing service with much better rates. >I hope eBay keeps raising their rates. It needs to cause just enough >grief to spawn a mass migration to another service. I dream of the day... Around June last year, ebay UK did a bit of a price hike. What annoyed people most was they did it in the name of having to comply wiht local VAT regulations (sales tax). Their email said "some" prices would go up, "some" down. All the prices went up except one never-used listing feature. Many by more than the VAT rate! A lot of people migrated to ebid.co.uk (http://connect.to/ebid if you want to earn me a referral click)- a UK based site that offers free listings; not in the numbers to make much of a difference to ebay, but enough such that you can actually manage to sell things on there now, albeit usually at start price. They cater for international members, so if you have some cheap stuff to flog, they are worth a try. As for us, well, we still use them, but to be honest, even with the charges, we make more money through eBay, just because there are enough people to bid things up. That's where all other services fail - there are just not enough people using them, and you can't make the money selling on them. So, no sellers, even less buyers..Rob From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Thu Feb 5 03:46:35 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:10 2005 Subject: 'melted' tape roller In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Tony Duell > Sent: 04 February 2004 23:08 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: 'melted' tape roller > > Constant speed probably isn't _that_ important. On most of > these units, the idler is only used for rewind and fast > forward (and maybe for driving the takeup spool clutch in > play/record modes). The tape speed is determined by the > capstan and pinch roller in play and record (which is when it > really matters). Ah yes, of course. I'd forgotten about the pinch roller - must be 20 years or so since I last had a tape recorder in bits :) > Thinks... There used to be a company called 'Eastwood Tools' > somewhere near Bristol (Yate???). They're the sort of place > that would have stocked it. Dunno if they're still around, though. Some swift googling doesn't turn up a web presence but that doesn't mean much. Mind, 192.com comes up with nothing either. Cheers -- Adrian/Witchy Owner & Webmaster, Binary Dinosaurs www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Thu Feb 5 03:51:45 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:10 2005 Subject: 'melted' tape roller In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Tony Duell > Sent: 04 February 2004 23:32 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: 'melted' tape roller > > A small lathe is even better, but note that the cutting tool > is very different in angle from that used for metal turning! > Freezing the rubber in liquid nitrogen helps (it makes it a > lot firmer), if you happen to have the liquid nitrogen.... I didn't have any the last time I looked :) Next time I have room on the repair desk I'll just whip the old roller up to the appliance repair place I'd forgotten about and see if they've got anything similar..... Pity I couldn't just glue on a rubber band of similar width, but I'd guess they're too soft? Cheers w From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Thu Feb 5 04:01:56 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:10 2005 Subject: VAX 4300 on eBay In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of John Lawson > Sent: 05 February 2004 00:05 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: VAX 4300 on eBay > > For those of you with intact usernames, there is the following: > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3076049197& > category=1479 That's not a 4300, its an R400X DSSI expansion cab so it's pretty much useless unless you've got a DSSI VAX to plug it into :) Also, if it's fully populated then it's bloody *heavy*. Not as heavy as the VAX4500 mind - when I got that one I had to dismantle it in the car and bring it into the house bit by bit! Cheers w From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Thu Feb 5 04:08:44 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:10 2005 Subject: This just in - Commodore B128 low profile computer (NOT 128D) In-Reply-To: <20040205073513.81782.qmail@web40902.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of steven > Sent: 05 February 2004 07:35 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: This just in - Commodore B128 low profile computer (NOT 128D) > > Don't know much about it yet, but it sure is pretty! > Seems to work fine. > > It came out the same time as the C-64, supposed to replace > the PET and be their business computer, but didn't sell well, I guess. Just in case Cameron's not lurking I'll plug his website for him - you'll get more info on the B128 and it's sisters at http://www.floodgap.com/retrobits/ckb/secret/ Also Bo Zimmerman's place: http://zimmers.net/index.html And last but by no means least Ian Matthews' excellent Commodore history: http://www.commodore.ca/ Cheers -- Adrian/Witchy Owner & Webmaster, Binary Dinosaurs www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From jcwren at jcwren.com Thu Feb 5 05:38:57 2004 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:10 2005 Subject: Shameless Plug Alert: More goodies for auction In-Reply-To: References: <200402042155000645.183276D6@192.168.42.129> Message-ID: <40222B51.70401@jcwren.com> Zane H. Healy wrote: >>the moment, including an IBM PS/2 'Pumpkin' luggable >> >> > >Now that's cool! What's the CPU? I don't remember ever seeing one of these before. I assume both slots are MCA? > > Zane > > > I believe this is a PS/2 Model 70 portable. A friend of mine has one he still uses for some CAD package that's ancient. < http://john.ccac.rwth-aachen.de:8000/alf/ps2_p70/ > --jc From r.lasbury at ntlworld.com Thu Feb 5 05:36:37 2004 From: r.lasbury at ntlworld.com (Robin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:10 2005 Subject: Help wanted with an Open VMS installation Message-ID: <000001c3ebdc$512f6960$0200a8c0@Gamma> Yes I am trying to use the hobbyist version of 7.3-1 however I obtained that version after I failed to get 6.2 to boot with exactly the same error. I thought maybe the later version would work !!! Silly me. _____ << ella for Spam Control >> has removed 1882 Spam messages and set aside 242 Newsletters for me You can use it too - and it's FREE! www.ellaforspam.com From gordonjcp at gjcp.net Thu Feb 5 08:01:56 2004 From: gordonjcp at gjcp.net (Gordon JC Pearce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:10 2005 Subject: Need some schematics... anyone? In-Reply-To: <20040203182926.63306.qmail@web41704.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040203182926.63306.qmail@web41704.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1075988989.8786.3.camel@pluto> On Tue, 2004-02-03 at 18:29, Lyos Norezel wrote: > BTW... I hope my english is clear enough to everyone here. > Scottish/Celtic is my native tongue. Spanish name, Scottish > background... strange mix, eh? > That's funny, I've lived in Scotland all my life, and Scots is my native tongue too. It's just like English but with a slightly different idiom. A bheil gaidhleag agadsa? Gordon. From chrisc at addpower.com Thu Feb 5 08:22:50 2004 From: chrisc at addpower.com (Christopher Cureau) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:10 2005 Subject: This just in - Commodore B128 low profile computer (NOT 128D) Message-ID: The computer itself is kinda nice. It had a MOS 6509 processor in it, which was the beginnings of Commodore's memory management experiments. Some models also had the same video and sound chips as the Commodore 64. I'd really like one of these myself. :) steven To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Sent by: cc: cctech-bounces@clas Subject: This just in - Commodore B128 low profile computer (NOT siccmp.org 128D) 02/05/2004 01:35 AM Please respond to "General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only" Don't know much about it yet, but it sure is pretty! Seems to work fine. It came out the same time as the C-64, supposed to replace the PET and be their business computer, but didn't sell well, I guess. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html From brad at heeltoe.com Thu Feb 5 08:25:01 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:10 2005 Subject: M7891-DC 2a fuse on +12? Message-ID: <200402051425.i15EP1p04752@mwave.heeltoe.com> I had a spare moment yesterday so I decided to try and troubleshoot my bad M7891-DC (128kw) in an 11/34a. Looks like I have no +12v. The 12v regulator seems to be working as I have 12v up the 2A fuse. But nothing after that. I'm assuming the fuse has blown. Easy to replace, but I also suspect it blew for a reason. (and replacing it might just yield another blown fuse :-) Anyone seen this before? Do they sometimes blow due to transients? I'm tempted to apply 12v after the fuse with a bench supply that has a current regulator and see what it draws. It's been a while since I worked with "plain old DRAMs" but I assume the 12v is for them (Vdd). -brad From bqt at update.uu.se Thu Feb 5 08:44:39 2004 From: bqt at update.uu.se (Johnny Billquist) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:10 2005 Subject: DECnet/E and DECnet-Plus In-Reply-To: <200402050315.i153FDOP047069@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <200402050315.i153FDOP047069@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Feb 2004 Paul Koning wrote: > 1. DECnet/E only supports the "old" network terminal protocol, which > is object 21. The other one is "CTERM" which is implemented by VMS > and one or two other operating systems, but not DECnet/E. In fact, I > think none of the PDP11s do it; it's way too complex. RSX definitely implements CTERM. I think it's object 23. > 2. DECnet/E works fine on E11. It's been a while since I've tried > that but I did use it, under Linux that is. I was using > the "tap" pseudo-ethernet to debug DECnet/Linux against DECnet/E... > > FWIW, there's an implementation of the "old" network terminal protocol > in the DECnet/Linux kit; with some hacking you can probably port that > and use it to talk to DECnet/E that way. The DECnet/Linux implementation is so bad that I'd say it's unusable. (Atleast when I tested to/from an RSX system.) Johnny Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt@update.uu.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Thu Feb 5 09:02:06 2004 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:10 2005 Subject: Shameless Plug Alert: More goodies for auction In-Reply-To: References: <200402042155000645.183276D6@192.168.42.129> Message-ID: <200402050702060152.1A275956@192.168.42.129> Hi, Zane, *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 04-Feb-04 at 23:19 Zane H. Healy wrote: >> the moment, including an IBM PS/2 'Pumpkin' luggable > >Now that's cool! What's the CPU? I don't remember ever seeing one of >these before. I assume both slots are MCA? This particular unit has a 386/16 or 20, if I recall correctly. There was also a later 486/33 version that had onboard SCSI. It has at least two, possibly four expansion slots (been a while since I was poking around in there), all of which are MCA, yes. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech do/t c=o=m "If Salvador Dali had owned a computer, would it have been equipped with surreal ports?" From lists at microvax.org Thu Feb 5 09:21:36 2004 From: lists at microvax.org (meltie) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:11 2005 Subject: DECnet/E and DECnet-Plus In-Reply-To: References: <200402050315.i153FDOP047069@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <200402051521.36914.lists@microvax.org> On Thursday 05 February 2004 14:44, Johnny Billquist wrote: > On Wed, 4 Feb 2004 Paul Koning wrote: > > 1. DECnet/E only supports the "old" network terminal protocol, which > > is object 21. The other one is "CTERM" which is implemented by VMS > > and one or two other operating systems, but not DECnet/E. In fact, > > I think none of the PDP11s do it; it's way too complex. > > RSX definitely implements CTERM. > I think it's object 23. > > > 2. DECnet/E works fine on E11. It's been a while since I've tried > > that but I did use it, under Linux that is. I was using > > the "tap" pseudo-ethernet to debug DECnet/Linux against DECnet/E... > > > > FWIW, there's an implementation of the "old" network terminal protocol > > in the DECnet/Linux kit; with some hacking you can probably port that > > and use it to talk to DECnet/E that way. > > The DECnet/Linux implementation is so bad that I'd say it's unusable. > (Atleast when I tested to/from an RSX system.) I've had no trouble with it using it to communicate with VAX/VMS. The author of most of it on the other hand..! alex/melt From pkoning at equallogic.com Thu Feb 5 09:55:14 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:11 2005 Subject: DECnet/E and DECnet-Plus References: <200402050315.i153FDOP047069@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <16418.26466.925798.687861@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Johnny" == Johnny Billquist writes: Johnny> On Wed, 4 Feb 2004 Paul Koning Johnny> wrote: >> 1. DECnet/E only supports the "old" network terminal protocol, >> which is object 21. The other one is "CTERM" which is implemented >> by VMS and one or two other operating systems, but not DECnet/E. >> In fact, I think none of the PDP11s do it; it's way too complex. Johnny> RSX definitely implements CTERM. I think it's object 23. Object 23 is the old RMTERM protocol. CTERM is 42. >> 2. DECnet/E works fine on E11. It's been a while since I've tried >> that but I did use it, under Linux that is. I was using the "tap" >> pseudo-ethernet to debug DECnet/Linux against DECnet/E... >> >> FWIW, there's an implementation of the "old" network terminal >> protocol in the DECnet/Linux kit; with some hacking you can >> probably port that and use it to talk to DECnet/E that way. Johnny> The DECnet/Linux implementation is so bad that I'd say it's Johnny> unusable. (Atleast when I tested to/from an RSX system.) Unuseable for what? I didn't use it with RSX, but it works fine with RSTS. That include rmterm... (I added that for RSTS and TOPS/20 but not for RSX; maybe someone else has by now, if not I expect volunteers would be welcomed...) paul From vcf at siconic.com Thu Feb 5 10:08:40 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:11 2005 Subject: IBM PC5150 monitor wanted/question In-Reply-To: <007401c3ebc2$1e11ed60$1000a8c0@winxpsp1a2100> Message-ID: On Thu, 5 Feb 2004, William Maddox wrote: > A genuine IBM AT was up on EBay a week or two ago. Went cheap, too. > Heres an PC, an XT, and AT in one lot: 2785591645 There's not as much > stuff from that era as you might expect, considering how popular the IBMs > were in their day, but there is stuff to be had. Go get it! :) :) To get an honest-to-gawd, genuine original IBM PC you'll want to look for one that has either one IBM (the IBM logo is embossed on the plastic face) full-height disk drive and a cover plate over the second bay, two full-height IBM disk drives, or even NO disk drives (I've got one like this). Another feature to look for that I don't know the significance of but it was important enough to IBM to give it an FRU (at least I am pretty sure it has one) is a one-inch wide strip of black plastic about 14" wide that fits over the vent holes at the front udnerside of the chassis. I would imagine this was a later modification to correct airflow? Anyway, I don't know how critical it is to have that strip (historically speaking) but I know they're a pain in the ass because the adhesive fails over time and they invariably end up falling off. Also, as has been mentioned plenty of times before, you want to look for one with the original 64K motherboard, with 16K soldered in and the rest socketed. A good indicator will be the presence of the cassette port in the back next to the keyboard port, though not a definitive indicator as it is entirely possible the machine would have been upgraded at some point. Finally, check to make sure the I/O boards inside are original IBM (the video and I/O boards and disk drive controller at a minimum). For extra points, find the plastic cover that fits over the drive bays. It's a smoked cover with a little handle in the middle and has a felt(?) lining around the edges. Make sure you get the original IBM keyboard and find a nice IBM monochrome display to round it out (these are not terribly hard to find). -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Thu Feb 5 10:11:37 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:11 2005 Subject: Forced eBay ID Change? In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20040205084911.03ccd008@pop.freeserve.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 5 Feb 2004, Rob O'Donnell wrote: > As for us, well, we still use them, but to be honest, even with the > charges, we make more money through eBay, just because there are enough > people to bid things up. That's where all other services fail - there are > just not enough people using them, and you can't make the money selling on > them. So, no sellers, even less buyers..Rob Yes, that is the problem. eBay is the 800,000 pound gorilla, and to unseat them will either require a rival with enough cash to launch a serious marketing campaign, or a continued succession of errors by eBay. The latter is plausible, as we've already seen. They always seem to push users right to the edge but not quite over...basically they try to get away with as much as possible to squeeze every last cent out of their users and doing the least possible work. Yes, I understand that is Capitalism, but there's honorable Capitalism, and then there's eBay (to say nothing of some of its users). -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Feb 5 10:37:34 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:11 2005 Subject: Help wanted with an Open VMS installation In-Reply-To: <000001c3ebdc$512f6960$0200a8c0@Gamma> References: <000001c3ebdc$512f6960$0200a8c0@Gamma> Message-ID: >Yes I am trying to use the hobbyist version of 7.3-1 however I obtained >that version after I failed to get 6.2 to boot with exactly the same >error. I thought maybe the later version would work !!! Silly me. Do you have access to a genuine copy of 7.2.something? IIRC, 7.x is a lot better able to handle 3rd party SCSI disks than 6.x. I'll admit I'm really not up on using 3rd party disks with DEC HW (except PDP-11's) as I've a large collection of RZ29's and some RZ25's and RZ28's. Though I am starting to look into moving to 3rd party disks to get larger sizes. Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Thu Feb 5 10:49:25 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:11 2005 Subject: This just in - Commodore B128 low profile computer (NOT 128D) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Christopher Cureau > Sent: 05 February 2004 14:23 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only > Subject: Re: This just in - Commodore B128 low profile > computer (NOT 128D) > > > The computer itself is kinda nice. It had a MOS 6509 > processor in it, which was the beginnings of Commodore's > memory management experiments. > Some models also had the same video and sound chips as the > Commodore 64. > I'd really like one of these myself. :) That was the P500 series, aka the PET II, and it was never released apart from a few samples to dealers before being canned because the C64 was doing so well. The B500/B128 was the 'b'usiness version that didn't have colour or sound. The European P500 made in Germany is more common than the US made, er, US one :) Highest serial number I've seen on a european one is 1763. http://www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk/Museum/Commodore/p500/commodorep500.php Cheers -- Adrian/Witchy Owner & Webmaster, Binary Dinosaurs www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From vrs at msn.com Thu Feb 5 10:40:28 2004 From: vrs at msn.com (vrs) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:11 2005 Subject: RX8E printset? References: <200401282101.i0SL1bJA023187@spies.com> <007e01c3e60b$a0189460$6700a8c0@vrshome.msn.com> Message-ID: > > I guess TC08s are common enough in Europe that you can > > strip 'em to build floppy controllers. > > No, no, send the TC08 to me! I would love to get a TC08 back-plane for my > 8i :-). I could even trade a TU55 drive for it, and then we could both use > TC08s as they were intended :-)! I have since communicated with the author and verified that the TC08 is undamaged; only unused TC08 slots are used, and any source of unused slots would do (at least one quad slot for the RX8e). Anyone who has an extra TC08 (or RX8e) should feel free to contact me anyway :-). > What is the best source of back-plane slots for this kind of homebrew work? I am still curious what people's opinions on this are. Vince From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Thu Feb 5 11:06:25 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:11 2005 Subject: IBM PC5150 monitor wanted/question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1076000010.4488.19.camel@weka.localdomain> On Thu, 2004-02-05 at 16:08, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Thu, 5 Feb 2004, William Maddox wrote: > > > A genuine IBM AT was up on EBay a week or two ago. Went cheap, too. > > Heres an PC, an XT, and AT in one lot: 2785591645 There's not as much > > stuff from that era as you might expect, considering how popular the IBMs > > were in their day, but there is stuff to be had. Go get it! :) :) > > To get an honest-to-gawd, genuine original IBM PC you'll want to look for > one that has either one IBM (the IBM logo is embossed on the plastic > face) full-height disk drive and a cover plate over the second bay, two > full-height IBM disk drives, or even NO disk drives (I've got one like > this). Worth mentioning that there used to be a *lot* of clone floppy drives around. My orignal PC has one orignal FH drive and one clone; externally they look *exactly* the same as the geniune IBM units, but lack the small embossed IBM logo in the plastic. I've got quite a pile of clone FH drives in storage; there seemed to be two types floating around at the time - those identical-looking ones that I've already mentioned, and ones with the same style of black plastic but a different width handle (wider IIRC). A photographer borrowed my unit for a book a few weeks ago; I spent ages scrabbling around for the correct case screws and a full compliment of blanking plates :-) I need to source a genuine IBM drive at some point (actually, I need two as my XT has been modified with a half-height drive but I'd like to make it original again) Are you sure that the front strip that you mention wasn't for shipping purposes in order to keep dust out? I've never seen a machine with this, and (going from memory) there's no other way for air to get into the case in order for the PSU fan to blow it out the back if the front vents are sealed off (assuming all blanking plates are fitted!). Seems like a strange design addition. Far as I know, the genuine machines are still common enough over here. Original-build IBM expansion boxes are a different matter; I don't think I've ever seen one. cheers Jules From brad at heeltoe.com Thu Feb 5 11:11:19 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:11 2005 Subject: M7891-DC 2a fuse on +12? fixed! In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 05 Feb 2004 09:25:01 EST." <200402051425.i15EP1p04752@mwave.heeltoe.com> Message-ID: <200402051711.i15HBJD06422@mwave.heeltoe.com> To follow up on my own post, replacing the fuse created a *hot* 12v regulator. My DVM indicated that something was shorting Vdd. Figuring it was a cap, I started pulling the + lines of the big caps. On the second one the short went away. Turns out one of the large Sangamo 47uf caps across Vdd was a dead short. I removed it and now the +12 is happy and the board works. (I'll replace it in my next digikey order) Do old electrolytic's short out? The MS11 parts list just say "AL EL" which I assume is aluminum electrolytic. For some reason I was thinking it would be a tantalum (based on it's silvery look) but now I'm thinking not. I think I'll replace it with a nice axial lead tantalum. I know sometimes badly mfg'd electrolytics will leak, but I've never seen a dead short - but my expeience is mostly with *new* products, no ones that are so "experienced" as this one :-) Normally I wouldn't post this sort of thing but I figured someone else might find it interesting/amusing. -brad Brad Parker wrote: > >I had a spare moment yesterday so I decided to try and troubleshoot my >bad M7891-DC (128kw) in an 11/34a. > >Looks like I have no +12v. The 12v regulator seems to be working as I >have 12v up the 2A fuse. But nothing after that. > >I'm assuming the fuse has blown. Easy to replace, but I also suspect it >blew for a reason. (and replacing it might just yield another blown fuse >:-) > >Anyone seen this before? Do they sometimes blow due to transients? > >I'm tempted to apply 12v after the fuse with a bench supply that has a >current regulator and see what it draws. It's been a while since I >worked with "plain old DRAMs" but I assume the 12v is for them (Vdd). > >-brad > From pkoning at equallogic.com Thu Feb 5 11:21:15 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:11 2005 Subject: M7891-DC 2a fuse on +12? fixed! References: <200402051425.i15EP1p04752@mwave.heeltoe.com> <200402051711.i15HBJD06422@mwave.heeltoe.com> Message-ID: <16418.31627.642044.528304@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Brad" == Brad Parker writes: Brad> Do old electrolytic's short out? The MS11 parts list just say Brad> "AL EL" which I assume is aluminum electrolytic. For some Brad> reason I was thinking it would be a tantalum (based on it's Brad> silvery look) but now I'm thinking not. I think I'll replace Brad> it with a nice axial lead tantalum. Should be ok. Tantalum was uncommon back in the 1970s, except for miniature capacitors. And yes, electrolytics fail with age. It's common for old power supplies to require replacement of all their electrolytics. (By "old" I mean 1950s or so -- but 30 years is enough that it isn't a surprise here either.) paul From paulpenn at knology.net Thu Feb 5 11:34:36 2004 From: paulpenn at knology.net (Paul Pennington) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:11 2005 Subject: Restoring old floppies to usable state References: Message-ID: <002b01c3ec0e$532c1100$6401a8c0@knology.net> "chris" wrote: > I have a newer version of spinrite, and am VERY VERY VERY disappointed > in it. (...) My experience with Spinrite was different. I used it extensively years ago in my business. Recently, a two month old Maxtor 30 GB hard disk failed in my wife's computer. This, of course, immediately became priority number one! I upgraded my old version of Spinrite online, paying and downloading the program in just a few minutes. Using the "save what you can" setting, I was able to regain access to the drive and back up the data my wife had entered to CDROM. (The drive was returned and Maxtor replaced it with a 40 GB unit). If I had not been able to recover the data, I'm sure I would still be hearing about it :-) Perhaps it's a bit unrealistic to expect a software program to fix a hard drive in the case of a hardware failure? In the more common scenario of gradually increasing bad sectors, Spinrite can work wonders. In my experience, however, once drives start to go bad, they get worse. As cheap as hard drives are today ( 50 cents a gigabyte), there's not much reason to keep questionable ones. PS: With regard to the subject, Spinrite will also fix floppies. Paul Pennington Augusta, Georgia From paulpenn at knology.net Thu Feb 5 11:39:26 2004 From: paulpenn at knology.net (Paul Pennington) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:11 2005 Subject: Need some schematics... anyone? References: Message-ID: <004501c3ec0f$005c0100$6401a8c0@knology.net> Ron; That was "Lyos Norezel" . I was just replying to his message. --Paul ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Hudson" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2004 10:16 PM Subject: Re: Need some schematics... anyone? > > On Wednesday, February 4, 2004, at 06:27 PM, Vintage Computer Festival > wrote: > > > On Wed, 4 Feb 2004, Paul Pennington wrote: > > > >>> Hey all... I am currently in the process of designing (and hopefully > >>> later > >> building) a > >>> dual Z80 laptop. > > Paul, What are you using for output? LCD screen? Where do you get it? From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu Feb 5 12:32:18 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:11 2005 Subject: M7891-DC 2a fuse on +12? fixed! In-Reply-To: Brad Parker "Re: M7891-DC 2a fuse on +12? fixed!" (Feb 5, 12:11) References: <200402051711.i15HBJD06422@mwave.heeltoe.com> Message-ID: <10402051832.ZM1886@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Feb 5, 12:11, Brad Parker wrote: > > To follow up on my own post, replacing the fuse created a *hot* 12v > regulator. My DVM indicated that something was shorting Vdd. > > Figuring it was a cap, I started pulling the + lines of the big caps. > On the second one the short went away. > > Turns out one of the large Sangamo 47uf caps across Vdd was a dead > short. I removed it and now the +12 is happy and the board works. > (I'll replace it in my next digikey order) > > Do old electrolytic's short out? The MS11 parts list just say "AL EL" > which I assume is aluminum electrolytic. For some reason I was thinking > it would be a tantalum (based on it's silvery look) but now I'm thinking > not. I think I'll replace it with a nice axial lead tantalum. What you described is the classic symptom of an aged electrolytic that needs reformed. In an electrolytic capacitor, the aluminium foil forms one electrode (the anode), the electrolyte (gel) is the other (cathode), and the oxide layer on the foil is the dielectric (insulator). Unless the capacitor is charged, the oxide dissolves into the electrolyte over time, and no longer insulates. The cure is to pass a small current to reform the oxide layer, and gradually build this up until the capacitor can withstand its normal working voltage without much leakage current. Cylindrical caps in a metal can are more commonly aluminium rather than tantalum; tantalum caps are more commonly made as beads of sintered tantalum. The principle is the same, though: large surface area in a small space, with a metal anode, oxide layer as dielectric, and electrolyte as cathode. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From arcarlini at iee.org Thu Feb 5 13:35:49 2004 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:11 2005 Subject: Help wanted with an Open VMS installation In-Reply-To: <000001c3eb5b$e1393580$0200a8c0@Gamma> Message-ID: <002901c3ec1f$424c8c00$5b01a8c0@athlon> > I have actually tried 5 different hard disks: 3 seagate > models and 2 original DEC RZ57 drives, but they all end with > the same error message while installing!!! I have proved the > 3 seagate disks on a scsi card on a PC and the 2 DEC drives > work OK on a DEC 5000 machine booting up a copy of Ultrix, so > I am pretty sure the problem is not actually with the disk drives. How about you post a log from when the machine powers up to when it fails? Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From tponsford at theriver.com Wed Feb 4 13:47:26 2004 From: tponsford at theriver.com (Tom Ponsford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:11 2005 Subject: Qbus card I.D & info needed. Message-ID: <40214C4E.6090407@theriver.com> Hi All, Going through some stuff picked up at the auction a while ago (but never completely looked through) I found some interesting Qbus stuff. I need some help with the ID though, Googling has turned up nothing useful. 1. Qbus half-height, appears to be a memory board: CDM 7703 R Circa 1980 Cyberchron Corporation 2.Qbus half-height, appears to be a disk controller card: Data System Design Circa 1980 s/n 0777 #804120-01 rev A I also found along with two Phillips RD50 cdroms, a M7552 Qbus KRP50 controller and cab kit, but no external cables. Both the RD50's and the cabkit have db15 connectors, so I'm presuming a straight through db15 might do the trick, or are there any special cables required? (were talking DEC here, so I would't be surprised if it needed a special cable) Ant help would be appreciated. Cheers Tom From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Feb 5 14:09:53 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:11 2005 Subject: IBM PC5150 monitor wanted/question In-Reply-To: <1076000010.4488.19.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <1076000010.4488.19.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <20040205115922.F1867@newshell.lmi.net> > I've got quite a pile of clone FH drives in storage; there seemed to be They are NOT "CLONE" drives!!!!!!!! > two types floating around at the time - those identical-looking ones > that I've already mentioned, and ones with the same style of black > plastic but a different width handle (wider IIRC). There are close to a hundred different ones, including at least half a dozen that have doors similar to the Tandon. IBM used an "INDUSTRY STANDARD" drive (Tandon TM100-2) and put their logo on the faceplate. It was already in common use on thousands of other computers. (Yes, Tandon DID have over a thousand customers by that point.) LATER, IBM began manufacturing drives and/or having them made for them. Calling them "clone" drives is like referring to all tires other than Bridgestone on a Japanese car as being "clone tires". But,... It isn't unreasonable to want to get some of the ones with the IBM faceplate logo, for restoration. From tosteve at yahoo.com Thu Feb 5 14:14:14 2004 From: tosteve at yahoo.com (steven) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:12 2005 Subject: This just in - Commodore B128 low profile computer (NOT 128D) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040205201414.38512.qmail@web40911.mail.yahoo.com> No kidding, that website is spectacular!: http://personalpages.bellsouth.net/d/r/drshock/b128.html --- Degnan@degnanco.net, "Co." wrote: > With the help of Ed Shockley and his web site > insectria.net I was > able to get a very trashed B128 machine up and > running correctly. > He's the expert with the B128 and his site can > answer most questions. > > > Direct Link: > http://personalpages.bellsouth.net/d/r/drshock/b128.html > > Bill > > > >Message: 28 > >Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 23:35:13 -0800 (PST) > >From: steven > >Subject: This just in - Commodore B128 low profile > computer (NOT 128D) > >To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > >Message-ID: > <20040205073513.81782.qmail@web40902.mail.yahoo.com> > >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > > >Don't know much about it yet, but it sure is > pretty! > >Seems to work fine. > > > >It came out the same time as the C-64, supposed to > >replace the PET and be their business computer, but > >didn't sell well, I guess. > > > > > > > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Feb 5 14:03:32 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:12 2005 Subject: M7891-DC 2a fuse on +12? fixed! In-Reply-To: <200402051711.i15HBJD06422@mwave.heeltoe.com> from "Brad Parker" at Feb 5, 4 12:11:19 pm Message-ID: > > > To follow up on my own post, replacing the fuse created a *hot* 12v > regulator. My DVM indicated that something was shorting Vdd. > > Figuring it was a cap, I started pulling the + lines of the big caps. > On the second one the short went away. You were lucky. Normally it's the last one on the board that turns out to be shorted ;-) > Turns out one of the large Sangamo 47uf caps across Vdd was a dead > short. I removed it and now the +12 is happy and the board works. > (I'll replace it in my next digikey order) > > Do old electrolytic's short out? The MS11 parts list just say "AL EL" I've had it happen. Remember that the plates of an electrolytic cap are the metal anode and the electrolyte. The dielectric is the oxide film on the surface of the anode. If that disolves back into the electrolyte, then you can get a dead short. I had this happen in the PSU module of a Canon CX laser printer. I was testing various bits of it (it seemed fine), I left it for a few hours, and when I came back I found a dead short on one of the unregulated power rails. Turned out that the 10000uF smooth cap had decided to go short-circuit at that moment. Thank %deity I didn't power it up like that! -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Feb 5 13:45:04 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:12 2005 Subject: IBM PC5150 monitor wanted/question In-Reply-To: <1076000010.4488.19.camel@weka.localdomain> from "Jules Richardson" at Feb 5, 4 04:53:31 pm Message-ID: > Worth mentioning that there used to be a *lot* of clone floppy drives > around. My orignal PC has one orignal FH drive and one clone; externally > they look *exactly* the same as the geniune IBM units, but lack the > small embossed IBM logo in the plastic. AFAIK the original 'IBM' drives were actually Tandon units -- they're mechanically and electrically identical (PCB layout, etc). I've used Tandon parts to fix IBM drives. The only difference is that the IBM ones have the IBM logo on the faceplate. -tony From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Feb 5 14:01:12 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:12 2005 Subject: Greedy E-bay idiots! Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040205150112.008ad5d0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Did you guys see this? . It's a thin manual for an EPROM programmer. This clown wants $9.80 for shipping AND $2.80 for insurance (REQUIRED no less). Actual postage for this via USPS bookrate is about 40 cents and insurance is 35 cents! How do these clowns expect to stay in business! Joe From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Thu Feb 5 14:44:49 2004 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:12 2005 Subject: [OT] Jim Willing Message-ID: <000001c3ec28$e7a9ae90$947ba8c0@p933> For those that have been looking for him, Jim Willing has a new email address that he seems to be checking from time to time: jimwilling@vintage-computer.com >From his last message he is planning on rejoining the group sometime soon. Erik Klein www.vintage-computer.com www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum The Vintage Computer Forum From tiziano.garuti at tin.it Thu Feb 5 14:46:10 2004 From: tiziano.garuti at tin.it (Tiziano) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:12 2005 Subject: Web Service References: <200402051804.i15I04OO053822@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <005c01c3ec29$169c9280$7b457450@tizianoxp> Hi folks, I am the webmaster of http://1000bit.net. I am here to announce that I have decided to open my database of technical infos to the world. You can know use all the data freely in your own sites. Here you can find infos and samples: http://www.1000bit.net/ws.asp I hope that this could interesting for someone. Thanks, Tiziano From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Thu Feb 5 15:01:16 2004 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:12 2005 Subject: 5.25 disks/programs available Message-ID: <1c1.14a674b9.2d54091c@aol.com> they were spoken for just before you emailed me From vax3900 at yahoo.com Thu Feb 5 15:21:47 2004 From: vax3900 at yahoo.com (SHAUN RIPLEY) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:12 2005 Subject: Greedy E-bay idiots! In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040205150112.008ad5d0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <20040205212147.68498.qmail@web60703.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Joe R." wrote: > Did you guys see this? > 5>. It's a thin manual for an EPROM programmer. This > clown wants $9.80 for > shipping AND $2.80 for insurance (REQUIRED no less). > Actual postage for > this via USPS bookrate is about 40 cents and > insurance is 35 cents! How do > these clowns expect to stay in business! as long as there are idiots who buy. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html From teoz at neo.rr.com Thu Feb 5 15:23:04 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:12 2005 Subject: Greedy E-bay idiots! References: <3.0.6.32.20040205150112.008ad5d0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <00bd01c3ec2e$4ff123c0$0500fea9@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe R." To: Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2004 3:01 PM Subject: Greedy E-bay idiots! > Did you guys see this? > 5>. It's a thin manual for an EPROM programmer. This clown wants $9.80 for > shipping AND $2.80 for insurance (REQUIRED no less). Actual postage for > this via USPS bookrate is about 40 cents and insurance is 35 cents! How do > these clowns expect to stay in business! > > Joe Nothing new in padding the shipping and handling. The eBay experience is about the total cost to get an item to your door. The guy apparently wants $20 minimum for the manual and there is probably a smaller eBay charge for something that sells for 9.99 then something that sells for $20 (eBay doesn't get a cut of shipping charges and some people still don't notice above average shipping charges until its too late). The item didn't sell and will probably get relisted 100 more times until somebody hard up for the manual ends up buying it. Did you guys notice how many items never sell on ebay these days? From technobug at comcast.net Thu Feb 5 15:35:25 2004 From: technobug at comcast.net (CRC) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:12 2005 Subject: M7891-DC 2a fuse on +12? fixed! In-Reply-To: <200402051800.i15I04OE053822@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <200402051800.i15I04OE053822@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <35B66F5C-5823-11D8-AAFD-003065B0DA30@comcast.net> On Thu, 05 Feb 2004 12:11:19 -0500 Brad Parker pounded out: [............] > Do old electrolytic's short out? The MS11 parts list just say "AL EL" > which I assume is aluminum electrolytic. For some reason I was > thinking > it would be a tantalum (based on it's silvery look) but now I'm > thinking > not. I think I'll replace it with a nice axial lead tantalum. If you are going to use the equipment only occasionally, a tantalum cap is an excellent choice. However, with the current reliability of electrolytic caps, the added expense is something that has to be considered. > I know sometimes badly mfg'd electrolytics will leak, but I've never > seen a dead short - but my expeience is mostly with *new* products, no > ones that are so "experienced" as this one :-) With old equipment, especially those items that have been in storage a long time, an electrolytic will depolarize. When you hit the ON button, the dielectric layer is missing and the conduction can cause a short, or occasionally, a small bang as the cap and its contents scatter around the chassis. Leakage is generally due to badly formed dielectric layers. In a pinch, you can cure a leaky cap by applying voltage of reverse polarity of about 10% of the rating for several seconds and then bringing the cap slowly up to its rated value to reform the dielectric. To safely re-energize a piece of equipment that is long in the tooth and has been sitting around for some time, you have to bring the voltage up relatively slowly to allow the electrolytic caps to re-polarize. Everyone who is collecting should own a good-sized Variac. You power the box up by bringing the voltage from naught to the operational level with the Variac over a period of about a second or so. This should allow the input caps (biggest and most expensive) to re-polarize without taking out the fuze, or worse, the rectifier. Even with switchers, this will also have a ripple effect throughout the system unless the unit has power management. I have some 50 y/o stuff around here that continues to work without repair by taking the above precautions. In your case, I would replace all the bypass caps on the board if you have had a failure in one - although good, they are probably marginal at this point in time. When replacing electrolytics, I typically go for the 105 degree items if they will fit (the current versions are substantially smaller than their predecessors), or for higher voltage beasties with the same temp rating. I also add heat protectors to caps that have been sited next to power resistors or large, silicon embers (monitors are notorious in this regard). Heat will take out an electrolytic faster than anything else. > Normally I wouldn't post this sort of thing but I figured someone else > might find it interesting/amusing. > Only if it doesn't happen to me... > -brad From esharpe at uswest.net Thu Feb 5 16:52:44 2004 From: esharpe at uswest.net (Ed Sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:12 2005 Subject: Greedy E-bay idiots! References: <3.0.6.32.20040205150112.008ad5d0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <003101c3ec3a$c4958f20$c07b9cac@aoldsl.net> yes.... we bought something and found not only did the hoser NOT take pay pal they wanted excessive shipping... so not only was it an expensive purchase for something minor it was a pain in the ass to get a check cut though payables dept. needles to say that seller has over a period of time deprived himself of thousands we might have spent.... best way to handle it is just grit your teeth and not buy anything from them.... ed sharpe archivist for smecc ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe R." To: Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2004 1:01 PM Subject: Greedy E-bay idiots! > Did you guys see this? > 5>. It's a thin manual for an EPROM programmer. This clown wants $9.80 for > shipping AND $2.80 for insurance (REQUIRED no less). Actual postage for > this via USPS bookrate is about 40 cents and insurance is 35 cents! How do > these clowns expect to stay in business! > > Joe > > From jpl15 at panix.com Thu Feb 5 15:56:25 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:12 2005 Subject: RL02 Head install info Message-ID: I have gotten a few pairs of RL02 head assemblies, and I'd like to know if they are used in 'pairs' per se, or if the upper and lowers are interchangable, or does any of this matter...? I know there are a few folks on the List experienced in changing out head assys on the large-format drives, so I thought I'd ask. BTW: I'm keeping a couple of pairs, and the remaining sets have already been spoken for (all by Listmembers) so regretfully I have no extras at this time. ;{} Cheers John From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Feb 5 16:07:46 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:12 2005 Subject: RL02 Head install info In-Reply-To: from "John Lawson" at Feb 5, 4 04:56:25 pm Message-ID: > > > I have gotten a few pairs of RL02 head assemblies, and I'd like to know > if they are used in 'pairs' per se, or if the upper and lowers are > interchangable, or does any of this matter...? The upper ('down'[1]) and lower ('up') heads are different (they're almost mirror images of each other, so that the cable comes out on the same side when installed). However, they're not always fitted in pairs -- often you just replace the bad head. I've never actually done an RL head replacement, but I've done it for RK05s, and I remember just replacing a single head if the other one was OK. The heads do not come as matched pairs, any 'down' head will work with any 'up' head. Note that RL01 and RL02 hheads are different, and you can't use the 'wrong' ones in either drive (you get something similar to the 40/80 cylinder problems on 5.25" floppies if you try) [1] It's conventional to refer to these heads by the direction they face when installed. -tony From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Thu Feb 5 16:17:56 2004 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:12 2005 Subject: Greedy E-bay idiots! Message-ID: <159.2d124b54.2d541b14@aol.com> There is discussion on some of the ebay community boards about this. A lot of the power sellers try to justify it various ways. As for myself, I always begin my descriptions with a big line that mentions actual shipping charges only and no excessive fees. Whether or not that helps remains to be seen. I have bypassed many an auction because the shipping and bogus handling fees were not acceptable for the item sold. In a message dated 2/5/2004 5:00:20 PM Eastern Standard Time, teoz@neo.rr.com writes: > Did you guys see this? > 5>. It's a thin manual for an EPROM programmer. This clown wants $9.80 for > shipping AND $2.80 for insurance (REQUIRED no less). Actual postage for > this via USPS bookrate is about 40 cents and insurance is 35 cents! How do > these clowns expect to stay in business! > > Joe From vcf at siconic.com Thu Feb 5 16:48:19 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:12 2005 Subject: IBM PC5150 monitor wanted/question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 5 Feb 2004, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > Another feature to look for that I don't know the significance of but it > was important enough to IBM to give it an FRU (at least I am pretty sure > it has one) is a one-inch wide strip of black plastic about 14" wide that > fits over the vent holes at the front udnerside of the chassis. I would > imagine this was a later modification to correct airflow? Anyway, I don't > know how critical it is to have that strip (historically speaking) but I > know they're a pain in the ass because the adhesive fails over time and > they invariably end up falling off. Ok, the number printed on a sticker affixed to the strip I have here is 5160-4025563. This would imply that it was for the PC/XT. The dimensions of the strip are closer to 1" x 12". -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Thu Feb 5 17:04:24 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:12 2005 Subject: IBM PC5150 monitor wanted/question In-Reply-To: <1076000010.4488.19.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: On 5 Feb 2004, Jules Richardson wrote: > Are you sure that the front strip that you mention wasn't for shipping > purposes in order to keep dust out? I've never seen a machine with this, No, I'm not. I just discovered it only a year or two back. > and (going from memory) there's no other way for air to get into the > case in order for the PSU fan to blow it out the back if the front vents > are sealed off (assuming all blanking plates are fitted!). Seems like a > strange design addition. This is actually common. I've gotten more than a few S-100 chassis, for instance, where they've been modified with electrician's tape to imrpove air flow (IMSAI 8080's usually have tape along the inside vents on the power supply side so that the fan draws air from the opposite side and pulls it over the power supply. On the PC, there are plenty of air intake vents, including the floppy disk drives themselves (for better or worse). > Far as I know, the genuine machines are still common enough over here. > Original-build IBM expansion boxes are a different matter; I don't think > I've ever seen one. I have at least one. They are rather rare over here as well. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From r_a_feldman at hotmail.com Thu Feb 5 17:00:34 2004 From: r_a_feldman at hotmail.com (Robert Feldman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:12 2005 Subject: More eBay madness: $2000 Otrona Attache Message-ID: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3457767314&category=177 No bids yet, so you can Buy It Now for only $3200 (cheap at half the price). Bob _________________________________________________________________ Find high-speed ‘net deals — comparison-shop your local providers here. https://broadband.msn.com From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Feb 5 16:24:46 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:12 2005 Subject: Greedy E-bay idiots! In-Reply-To: <00bd01c3ec2e$4ff123c0$0500fea9@game> References: <3.0.6.32.20040205150112.008ad5d0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040205172446.008b9100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 04:23 PM 2/5/04 -0500, you wrote: > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Joe R." >To: >Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2004 3:01 PM >Subject: Greedy E-bay idiots! > > >> Did you guys see this? >> >> 5>. It's a thin manual for an EPROM programmer. This clown wants $9.80 for >> shipping AND $2.80 for insurance (REQUIRED no less). Actual postage for >> this via USPS bookrate is about 40 cents and insurance is 35 cents! How >do >> these clowns expect to stay in business! >> >> Joe > >Nothing new in padding the shipping and handling. The eBay experience is >about the total cost to get an item to your door. The guy apparently wants >$20 minimum for the manual and there is probably a smaller eBay charge for >something that sells for 9.99 then something that sells for $20 (eBay >doesn't get a cut of shipping charges and some people still don't notice >above average shipping charges until its too late). The item didn't sell and >will probably get relisted 100 more times until somebody hard up for the >manual ends up buying it. Did you guys notice how many items never sell on >ebay these days? Have you ever noticed how many times some people will relist the same item? I remember one item that I know the seller relisted at least 8 times. They must be paying an arm and a leg in listing fees. You'd think they'd wise up after it didn't sell the first couple of times. Joe > > > > From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Thu Feb 5 17:22:55 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:12 2005 Subject: This just in - Commodore B128 low profile computer (NOT 128D) In-Reply-To: <20040205201414.38512.qmail@web40911.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of steven > Sent: 05 February 2004 20:14 > To: billdeg@degnanco.com; cctech@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: This just in - Commodore B128 low profile > computer (NOT 128D) > > No kidding, that website is spectacular!: > > http://personalpages.bellsouth.net/d/r/drshock/b128.html > Ah yes - thanks for reminding me! *adds to links page* Cheers -- Adrian/Witchy Owner & Webmaster, Binary Dinosaurs www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Thu Feb 5 17:28:55 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:12 2005 Subject: More eBay madness: $2000 Otrona Attache In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Robert Feldman > Sent: 05 February 2004 23:01 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: More eBay madness: $2000 Otrona Attache > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3457767314& > category=177 > > No bids yet, so you can Buy It Now for only $3200 (cheap at > half the price). Have a look at the other stuff he's been selling though :) Cheers w From aek at spies.com Thu Feb 5 17:42:49 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:12 2005 Subject: another drive replacement mfr Message-ID: <200402052342.i15NgnbZ020595@spies.com> http://www.wilsonlabs.com/disk-drive-replacement.htm I see Wilson Labs, who used to sell disk and drive testers, is in the disk replacement biz now. From bqt at update.uu.se Thu Feb 5 17:42:59 2004 From: bqt at update.uu.se (Johnny Billquist) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:12 2005 Subject: DECnet/E and DECnet-Plus In-Reply-To: <200402051804.i15I04OP053822@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <200402051804.i15I04OP053822@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: On Thu, 5 Feb 2004 meltie wrote: > > > FWIW, there's an implementation of the "old" network terminal protocol > > > in the DECnet/Linux kit; with some hacking you can probably port that > > > and use it to talk to DECnet/E that way. > > > > The DECnet/Linux implementation is so bad that I'd say it's unusable. > > (Atleast when I tested to/from an RSX system.) > > I've had no trouble with it using it to communicate with VAX/VMS. The > author of most of it on the other hand..! I wonder how much things you've tried... I know that the people developing DECnet/Linux have used a VMS system to communicate with to test things, but I had some problems even to that. Trying to communicate with RSX was totally useless. Basically nothing works. The only thing I managed to get to work was DAP access from the Linux system to the RSX system for transferring files from RSX to Linux. All other things with DAP fails. PHONE didn't work either. Hmm, what else is there... Ah, yes, CTERM didn't seem to work either. [...] > From: Paul Koning > > Johnny> On Wed, 4 Feb 2004 Paul Koning > Johnny> wrote: > >> 1. DECnet/E only supports the "old" network terminal protocol, > >> which is object 21. The other one is "CTERM" which is implemented > >> by VMS and one or two other operating systems, but not DECnet/E. > >> In fact, I think none of the PDP11s do it; it's way too complex. > > Johnny> RSX definitely implements CTERM. I think it's object 23. > > Object 23 is the old RMTERM protocol. CTERM is 42. Ah. Sorry. I looked at the known objects of my RSX system, and had to pick between 23 and 42, I picked the wrong one. :-/ 23 is handled by RMHACP and 42 by RTH. I knew both were interactive terminal protocols, but I had a hard time remembering which was which. > >> 2. DECnet/E works fine on E11. It's been a while since I've tried > >> that but I did use it, under Linux that is. I was using the "tap" > >> pseudo-ethernet to debug DECnet/Linux against DECnet/E... > >> > >> FWIW, there's an implementation of the "old" network terminal > >> protocol in the DECnet/Linux kit; with some hacking you can > >> probably port that and use it to talk to DECnet/E that way. > > Johnny> The DECnet/Linux implementation is so bad that I'd say it's > Johnny> unusable. (Atleast when I tested to/from an RSX system.) > > Unuseable for what? I didn't use it with RSX, but it works fine with > RSTS. That include rmterm... (I added that for RSTS and TOPS/20 but > not for RSX; maybe someone else has by now, if not I expect volunteers > would be welcomed...) Well, like I said before. Access from RSX to Linux don't work at all. Access from Linux to RSX works for reading files, but not writing. PHONE don't work, and CTERM didn't work if I remember correctly (I'm a bit unsure about CTERM, since it's been a few months since we disabled DECnet/Linux again). Also, PHONE with VMS systems don't work as they should either. I can't remember if I tried that much with DAP, but even if it works better there must obviously be some serious bugs in there since it fails so abmyssaly with RSX. Johnny Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt@update.uu.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol From vcf at siconic.com Thu Feb 5 17:47:34 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:12 2005 Subject: M7891-DC 2a fuse on +12? fixed! In-Reply-To: <35B66F5C-5823-11D8-AAFD-003065B0DA30@comcast.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 5 Feb 2004, CRC wrote: > To safely re-energize a piece of equipment that is long in the tooth > and has been sitting around for some time, you have to bring the > voltage up relatively slowly to allow the electrolytic caps to > re-polarize. Everyone who is collecting should own a good-sized Variac. > You power the box up by bringing the voltage from naught to the > operational level with the Variac over a period of about a second or One second? I've always been told to do this over the course of at least a couple hours in 5V increments. If I can be doing this in a much quicker time then I'd really like to know about it. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Thu Feb 5 17:49:53 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:12 2005 Subject: Greedy E-bay idiots! In-Reply-To: <159.2d124b54.2d541b14@aol.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 5 Feb 2004 SUPRDAVE@aol.com wrote: > There is discussion on some of the ebay community boards about this. A > lot of the power sellers try to justify it various ways. As for myself, > I always begin my descriptions with a big line that mentions actual > shipping charges only and no excessive fees. Whether or not that helps > remains to be seen. I have bypassed many an auction because the shipping > and bogus handling fees were not acceptable for the item sold. Some sellers are certainly out of line but then again, packing an item well can take a lot of time. It sometimes takes me 2 hours to pack a rather large item or a bunch of small items. Charging only the actual shipping costs can sometimes mean you take a big hit. But with a manual? C'mon. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Thu Feb 5 17:53:08 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:12 2005 Subject: Greedy E-bay idiots! In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040205172446.008b9100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 5 Feb 2004, Joe R. wrote: > Have you ever noticed how many times some people will relist the same > item? I remember one item that I know the seller relisted at least 8 times. > They must be paying an arm and a leg in listing fees. You'd think they'd > wise up after it didn't sell the first couple of times. Yeah, that really gets me. Especially when I make a reasonable offer on something that has received no bids at least a couple times, and the seller balks and relists it. By the time they actually do sell it (if ever) they are already in the hole with all the listing fees! Who ARE these people!? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From donm at cts.com Thu Feb 5 17:54:37 2004 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:12 2005 Subject: Looking for HDOS diskette layout In-Reply-To: <20040204182211.R82700@newshell.lmi.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Feb 2004, Fred Cisin wrote: > > > Nope. HDOS is a completely different OS. As I recall, > > > the directory is somplace in the middle of the disk. > > > Dwight > > > > If HDOS is the same as ZDOS - and I assume that it is - it is an > > On a H8/H19 ????? Hmmmm! Major brain fart, I think!! - don > > MSDOS related system and uses an 820K DOS format (512x8) with the > > two copies of the FAT on sectors 2 and 3 and the Directory > > starting on 4. > > 512 x 8 would usually give you 640K > 512 x 9 would usually give you 720K > > > > >> Does anyone know or have a reference regarding the > > > >> layout of the HDOS (H8/H19) diskette and filesystem? > > > >> The generic HDOS documentation doesn't include it. > > > >Isn't it just CP/M 1.4? > > There were a LOT of Heath and Zenith formats, including hard-sectored one, > aftermarket soft sector conversions, their own OS, CP/M, and MS-DOS. > It would be best to not extrapolate from other models. > > > > > From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Feb 5 17:55:02 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:12 2005 Subject: IBM PC5150 monitor wanted/question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040205155313.X12000@newshell.lmi.net> On Thu, 5 Feb 2004, Tony Duell wrote: > AFAIK the original 'IBM' drives were actually Tandon units -- they're > mechanically and electrically identical (PCB layout, etc). I've used > Tandon parts to fix IBM drives. The only difference is that the IBM ones > have the IBM logo on the faceplate. During the first six months of the PC (5150), some of the machines directly from IBM ("IBM Retail Product Center") had the IBM logo on a drive that still had Tandon labels on it. MUCH later, IBM started using some other drives, besides Tandon. From jpl15 at panix.com Thu Feb 5 18:04:52 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:12 2005 Subject: M7891-DC 2a fuse on +12? fixed! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 5 Feb 2004, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Thu, 5 Feb 2004, CRC wrote: > > > To safely re-energize a piece of equipment that is long in the tooth > > and has been sitting around for some time, you have to bring the > > voltage up relatively slowly to allow the electrolytic caps to > > re-polarize. Everyone who is collecting should own a good-sized Variac. > > You power the box up by bringing the voltage from naught to the > > operational level with the Variac over a period of about a second or Then duck! IMHO opinion, and over 40+ years experience, to reform funky caps takes anywhere from a few minutes to over an hour, depending on many variables. If you think you've formed an electrolytic in one second, it was either tiny or good-to-begin-with. But the thing most folks forget is to somehow monitor the *current* being drawn during the Process of Reformation. Here endeth the Lesson. > > One second? I've always been told to do this over the course of at least > a couple hours in 5V increments. > Again - it depends on the voltage/capacity of the filters involved, and just how "bad" gthey are. One simply cannot place an arbitrary voltage/time delta on all power supplies. The Ammeter (or it's analog) is here your friend. Cheers John From vrs at msn.com Thu Feb 5 18:12:53 2004 From: vrs at msn.com (vrs) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:12 2005 Subject: M7891-DC 2a fuse on +12? fixed! References: Message-ID: > > > To safely re-energize a piece of equipment that is long in the tooth > > > and has been sitting around for some time, you have to bring the > > > voltage up relatively slowly to allow the electrolytic caps to > > > re-polarize. Everyone who is collecting should own a good-sized Variac. > > > You power the box up by bringing the voltage from naught to the > > > operational level with the Variac over a period of about a second or > > Then duck! IMHO opinion, and over 40+ years experience, to reform > funky caps takes anywhere from a few minutes to over an hour, depending on > many variables. If you think you've formed an electrolytic in one second, > it was either tiny or good-to-begin-with. When I read this, I took it to mean the Variac was a preferred method for turning on equipment *after* the caps had been reformed, as a matter of routine. (Otherwise it made no sense to me, based on what I know of reformation.) That may not be a good idea, but I couldn't dismiss it out of hand. Vince From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Thu Feb 5 19:19:32 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:12 2005 Subject: Greedy E-bay idiots! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Vintage > Computer Festival > Sent: 05 February 2004 23:53 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: Greedy E-bay idiots! > > Yeah, that really gets me. Especially when I make a > reasonable offer on something that has received no bids at > least a couple times, and the seller balks and relists it. > By the time they actually do sell it (if > ever) they are already in the hole with all the listing fees! > > Who ARE these people!? Greedy idiots who think ebay is their paymaster because of all the spam talking about making thousands from ebay? Sorry, that should read 'gullible idiots' :) Cheers w From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Feb 5 19:27:55 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:12 2005 Subject: another drive replacement mfr In-Reply-To: <200402052342.i15NgnbZ020595@spies.com> References: <200402052342.i15NgnbZ020595@spies.com> Message-ID: >http://www.wilsonlabs.com/disk-drive-replacement.htm > >I see Wilson Labs, who used to sell disk and drive testers, >is in the disk replacement biz now. Anyone have any idea how much their WBC 512 is? A MFM replacement disk would be cool! Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From netsurfer_x1 at fastmailbox.net Thu Feb 5 19:53:03 2004 From: netsurfer_x1 at fastmailbox.net (David Vohs) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:12 2005 Subject: Atari Portfolio hard drives? Message-ID: <20040206015303.5F678154E9E@mail.messagingengine.com> Does anyone know if anyone ever made a hard drive for the Atari Portfolio? I'd just love to get my hands on one. -- David Vohs netsurfer_x1@fastmailbox.net -- http://www.fastmail.fm - Does exactly what it says on the tin From vax3900 at yahoo.com Thu Feb 5 20:27:40 2004 From: vax3900 at yahoo.com (SHAUN RIPLEY) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:12 2005 Subject: Greedy E-bay idiots! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040206022740.20662.qmail@web60706.mail.yahoo.com> --- Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Thu, 5 Feb 2004, Joe R. wrote: > > > Have you ever noticed how many times some people > will relist the same > > item? I remember one item that I know the seller > relisted at least 8 times. > > They must be paying an arm and a leg in listing > fees. You'd think they'd > > wise up after it didn't sell the first couple of > times. > > Yeah, that really gets me. Especially when I make a > reasonable offer on > something that has received no bids at least a > couple times, and the > seller balks and relists it. By the time they > actually do sell it (if > ever) they are already in the hole with all the > listing fees! If I remember correctly, Epay will return you all your listing fees except the first one if you finally sell your item. > > Who ARE these people!? > > -- > > Sellam Ismail > Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || > Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at > http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html From doc at mdrconsult.com Thu Feb 5 20:31:16 2004 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:12 2005 Subject: Greedy E-bay idiots! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <89E7D65E-584C-11D8-9FE4-000A95A6B97A@mdrconsult.com> On Feb 5, 2004, at 5:53 PM, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Thu, 5 Feb 2004, Joe R. wrote: > >> Have you ever noticed how many times some people will relist the >> same >> item? I remember one item that I know the seller relisted at least 8 >> times. >> They must be paying an arm and a leg in listing fees. You'd think >> they'd >> wise up after it didn't sell the first couple of times. > > Yeah, that really gets me. Especially when I make a reasonable offer > on > something that has received no bids at least a couple times, and the > seller balks and relists it. By the time they actually do sell it (if > ever) they are already in the hole with all the listing fees! Last time I read the seller's FAQ, eBay doesn't charge fees on an item with no bids as long as the seller relists the item. So, it's actually cheaper for the seller to relist than to sell it offline. Of course, relisting an item 6 times at the same minimum when you're getting no bids is kind of dumb. Doc From jcwren at jcwren.com Thu Feb 5 20:43:17 2004 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:12 2005 Subject: Greedy E-bay idiots! In-Reply-To: <89E7D65E-584C-11D8-9FE4-000A95A6B97A@mdrconsult.com> References: <89E7D65E-584C-11D8-9FE4-000A95A6B97A@mdrconsult.com> Message-ID: <4022FF45.2040500@jcwren.com> Doc Shipley wrote: > On Feb 5, 2004, at 5:53 PM, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > >> On Thu, 5 Feb 2004, Joe R. wrote: >> >>> Have you ever noticed how many times some people will relist the same >>> item? I remember one item that I know the seller relisted at least 8 >>> times. >>> They must be paying an arm and a leg in listing fees. You'd think >>> they'd >>> wise up after it didn't sell the first couple of times. >> >> >> Yeah, that really gets me. Especially when I make a reasonable offer on >> something that has received no bids at least a couple times, and the >> seller balks and relists it. By the time they actually do sell it (if >> ever) they are already in the hole with all the listing fees! > > > Last time I read the seller's FAQ, eBay doesn't charge fees on an > item with no bids as long as the seller relists the item. > > So, it's actually cheaper for the seller to relist than to sell it > offline. > > Of course, relisting an item 6 times at the same minimum when you're > getting no bids is kind of dumb. Why? Most of these people use some sort of auction management software like eBud. It takes about 4 clicks to relist an item. Sooner or later, some one will likely buy it. You just have to find someone who hits the right search terms, needs it, or wants it. With most of that stuff, it's not costing them anymore to keep it, so why not keep listing it until you hit your price. There's a sucker born every minute. --jc > > > Doc > From vcf at siconic.com Thu Feb 5 21:03:41 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:12 2005 Subject: Greedy E-bay idiots! In-Reply-To: <20040206022740.20662.qmail@web60706.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 5 Feb 2004, SHAUN RIPLEY wrote: > If I remember correctly, Epay will return you all your listing fees > except the first one if you finally sell your item. This would certainly make that sort of behavior make sense then. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From marvin at rain.org Thu Feb 5 21:09:21 2004 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:12 2005 Subject: Greedy E-bay idiots! References: <89E7D65E-584C-11D8-9FE4-000A95A6B97A@mdrconsult.com> Message-ID: <40230561.51314391@rain.org> Doc Shipley wrote: > > Last time I read the seller's FAQ, eBay doesn't charge fees on an > item with no bids as long as the seller relists the item. Is this a new thing? For years, it has been you can basically get twice the time for the same listing fee *IF* the item sells the second time. Otherwise you get charged again. And of course Ebay has no incentive to block non-payers since only the FVF gets refunded, not the listing charge. Letting the fox guard the henhouse is *really* dumb. From vrs at msn.com Thu Feb 5 21:11:41 2004 From: vrs at msn.com (vrs) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:12 2005 Subject: Greedy E-bay idiots! References: Message-ID: > > If I remember correctly, Epay will return you all your listing fees > > except the first one if you finally sell your item. > > This would certainly make that sort of behavior make sense then. Reading the eBay fee page, it says only the very first listing fee is returned. Vince From curt at atarimuseum.com Thu Feb 5 21:12:41 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:13 2005 Subject: Atari Portfolio hard drives? In-Reply-To: <20040206015303.5F678154E9E@mail.messagingengine.com> References: <20040206015303.5F678154E9E@mail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: <40230629.4040300@atarimuseum.com> I recall a 3rd party firm that did have a HD add-on, there was even a photo of a guy holding a portfilio palmtop with the hd module layered underneath. I don't know if it was officially released. Curt David Vohs wrote: >Does anyone know if anyone ever made a hard drive for the Atari >Portfolio? > >I'd just love to get my hands on one. > > -- Curt Vendel & Karl Morris ----------------------------------------------------------------------- The Atari Museum http://www.atarimuseum.com The Atari Explorer http://www.atari-explorer.com From ghldbrd at ccp.com Thu Feb 5 21:07:49 2004 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (ghldbrd@ccp.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:13 2005 Subject: Greedy E-bay idiots! In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040205150112.008ad5d0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20040205150112.008ad5d0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <1146.65.123.179.195.1076036869.squirrel@webmail.ccp.com> > Did you guys see this? > 5>. It's a thin manual for an EPROM programmer. This clown wants $9.80 for > shipping AND $2.80 for insurance (REQUIRED no less). Actual postage for > this via USPS bookrate is about 40 cents and insurance is 35 cents! How > do > these clowns expect to stay in business! > > Joe > That's how they engineer in their profit margin, guaranteed. They don't call it E-greed or E-pay fer nuffin!!! Gary Hildebrand St. Joseph, MO From gkicomputers at yahoo.com Thu Feb 5 21:17:05 2004 From: gkicomputers at yahoo.com (steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:13 2005 Subject: Greedy E-bay idiots! In-Reply-To: <40230561.51314391@rain.org> Message-ID: <20040206031705.78322.qmail@web12402.mail.yahoo.com> --- Marvin Johnston wrote: > Is this a new thing? For years, it has been you can > basically get twice > the time for the same listing fee *IF* the item > sells the second time. > Otherwise you get charged again. Yes, that how the current ebay policy works, I can't imagine they would ever let you keep relisting an item for free, just doesn't make sense, business wise. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html From pat at computer-refuge.org Thu Feb 5 21:39:59 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:13 2005 Subject: Greedy E-bay idiots! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200402052239.59025.pat@computer-refuge.org> On Thursday 05 February 2004 18:53, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Thu, 5 Feb 2004, Joe R. wrote: > > Have you ever noticed how many times some people will relist the > > same item? I remember one item that I know the seller relisted at > > least 8 times. They must be paying an arm and a leg in listing > > fees. You'd think they'd wise up after it didn't sell the first > > couple of times. > > Yeah, that really gets me. Especially when I make a reasonable offer > on something that has received no bids at least a couple times, and > the seller balks and relists it. By the time they actually do sell > it (if ever) they are already in the hole with all the listing fees! > > Who ARE these people!? You mean like this guy? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3075103057 That's been relisted on eBay since last Spring or maybe Winter. With a $4k start bid, that can't be cheap. At this point it wouldn't suprise me if he's spent hundres of $$ just relisting the machine. If he just had some sense to either lower the opening bid or sell it in some other venue that bought that kind of thing... And from an email exchange I had with that guy when I was considering buying it, he's 1) got no idea what he has and 2) is willing to sell it for less money. I think I managed to get him down to $2500 or $2k - I'd be suprised if he wouldn't have sold it by now if he'd set the start bid to something near that. Of couse, he seems to resell Compaq PeeCee hardware, so he can't be all that bright. ;) Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ From vcf at siconic.com Thu Feb 5 21:51:44 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:13 2005 Subject: Greedy E-bay idiots! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 5 Feb 2004, vrs wrote: > > > If I remember correctly, Epay will return you all your listing fees > > > except the first one if you finally sell your item. > > > > This would certainly make that sort of behavior make sense then. > > Reading the eBay fee page, it says only the very first listing fee is > returned. Okay, that's what I seem to recall, which takes me back to my prior position: people are stupid. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Thu Feb 5 21:56:18 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:13 2005 Subject: Greedy E-bay idiots! In-Reply-To: <200402052239.59025.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: On Thu, 5 Feb 2004, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > Of couse, he seems to resell Compaq PeeCee hardware, so he can't be all > that bright. ;) Well, you figure eBay is so mainstream now that it represents an average cross section of the populace. Now, take into account that the average IQ of the average person is 100. Remember, that's AVERAGE. That means there are people who are at 70 (starting edge for "Mildly Retarded") pulling the average IQ down from the people who are 130 or above. That's a lot of friggin idiots on eBay. And I've met my share. Thus concludes my pointless analysis. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From dvcorbin at optonline.net Thu Feb 5 22:14:35 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:13 2005 Subject: Box o' Parts --- ASR 33.. In-Reply-To: <200402052239.59025.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: Today is a happy day! Just got an ASR-33 teletype....well at least almost... Seriously, I just received almost all of the key parts for a TTY. I have the main assembly (with punch, the keyboard, and the reader. All that is missing is the Power Supply and case. Thanks to David Gesswein (pdp8.net) I also have a full set of prints. While I did a reasonable amount of work on these beasts back in the mid '70s it has been a long time, and many of those brain cells have disappeared. Since I know that a number of people on this list have working teletypes, I would greatly appreciate being able to speak with some of them to come up with a game plan for actually getting this operational. Please contact me either via this list, or e-mail dvcorbin@optonline.net. Thanks in advance. David ps: Where else can you get a multi-function device that does NO Graphics, NO Lower Case Characters and prints a fantastic 0.1389 PPM!!!!!!! (It also will head a small enclosed space, and provide enough noise to mask outside activity!) From teoz at neo.rr.com Thu Feb 5 22:23:04 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:13 2005 Subject: Greedy E-bay idiots! References: <200402052239.59025.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: <002b01c3ec68$ea827d00$0500fea9@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patrick Finnegan" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2004 10:39 PM Subject: Re: Greedy E-bay idiots! > > That's been relisted on eBay since last Spring or maybe Winter. With a > $4k start bid, that can't be cheap. At this point it wouldn't suprise > me if he's spent hundres of $$ just relisting the machine. If he just > had some sense to either lower the opening bid or sell it in some other > venue that bought that kind of thing... And from an email exchange I > had with that guy when I was considering buying it, he's 1) got no idea > what he has and 2) is willing to sell it for less money. I think I > managed to get him down to $2500 or $2k - I'd be suprised if he > wouldn't have sold it by now if he'd set the start bid to something > near that. > > Of couse, he seems to resell Compaq PeeCee hardware, so he can't be all > that bright. ;) > > Pat > -- The insertion fee is $4.80 for anything $500 and up plus $.15 for each picture hosted by eBay after the first free picture (only the second insertion fee is refunded if it sells on the second try, other then that you pay for each re-insertion). Assuming he re-lists it 37 times (10 days per auction covering a year) he has accumulated $177.60 in eBay charges over the year. So at that rate he can have it running for years before somebody bites at the $4k price and still make more money then your $2500 offer now. Most likely he will drop the price sometime in the first year and who knows might sell it at $3k. Who knows the guy probably was paid to remove it from some business in the first place so no big deal. He might have no idea what he has, but he knows you will pony up $2,500 for it so maybe $4,000 might be reasonable to somebody else. You might call him greedy, but I don't see why he would be stupid? eBay has been around for quite a few years and more people are listing items (and selling them) now then every year before so somebody is making some cash (besides UPS, USPS, and Fedex anyway). eBay Pricing is here: http://pages.ebay.com/help/sell/fees.html From tachyon at comporium.net Thu Feb 5 22:20:40 2004 From: tachyon at comporium.net (Thomas Martin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:13 2005 Subject: cctalk Digest, Vol 6, Issue 13 In-Reply-To: <200402060258.i162wCOE058097@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: > Message: 8 > Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 15:01:12 -0500 > From: "Joe R." > Subject: Greedy E-bay idiots! > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040205150112.008ad5d0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Did you guys see this? > . > It's a thin manual for an EPROM programmer. This clown wants $9.80 for > shipping AND $2.80 for insurance (REQUIRED no less). Actual postage for > this via USPS bookrate is about 40 cents and insurance is 35 cents! How do > these clowns expect to stay in business! > > Joe Did you notice that it's coming from Canada? Tom From vcf at siconic.com Thu Feb 5 23:50:05 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:13 2005 Subject: AMSTRAD PCW8256 systems avaialble in Tuscon, Arizona Message-ID: See below. It's a very terse exchange. Basically, an Amstrad PCW8256 is available in Tuscon. Go get it. Leave me out of it. Reply-to: jvansickler@cox.net ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 18:45:39 -0400 From: jvansickler@cox.net To: Vintage Computer Festival Subject: Re: Re: AMSTRAD PCW8256 systems & sw available Tucson, Arizona > > From: Vintage Computer Festival > Date: 2003/10/03 Fri AM 01:19:21 EDT > To: > Subject: Re: AMSTRAD PCW8256 systems & sw available > > On Fri, 3 Oct 2003 jvansickler@cox.net wrote: > > > Let me know if you're interested. > > Hi Jim. > > Where are they located? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net Fri Feb 6 00:28:00 2004 From: ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:13 2005 Subject: Atari Portfolio hard drives? In-Reply-To: <20040206015303.5F678154E9E@mail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: <9C5DF2C2-586D-11D8-BADD-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> On Thursday, February 5, 2004, at 05:53 PM, David Vohs wrote: > Does anyone know if anyone ever made a hard drive for the Atari > Portfolio? I'd love to just have an Atari Portfolio :^) From ygehrich at yahoo.com Thu Feb 5 12:51:13 2004 From: ygehrich at yahoo.com (Gene Ehrich) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:13 2005 Subject: Cashtrac.exe ??? Message-ID: <6.0.2.0.2.20040205134800.01f905b8@popmail.voicenet.com> Is anybody here familiar with an older DOS checkbook program called CASHTRAC. I used to run it with Windows 95 in the DOS box and am trying to get it to run under WIN XP PRO I get the following error ERROR 71 in line 200 Drive Door Open Any answers or thoughts would be appreciated. From gordonjcp at gjcp.net Thu Feb 5 08:57:31 2004 From: gordonjcp at gjcp.net (Gordon JC Pearce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:13 2005 Subject: M7891-DC 2a fuse on +12? In-Reply-To: <200402051425.i15EP1p04752@mwave.heeltoe.com> References: <200402051425.i15EP1p04752@mwave.heeltoe.com> Message-ID: <1075992330.22024.13.camel@pluto> On Thu, 2004-02-05 at 14:25, Brad Parker wrote: > > I had a spare moment yesterday so I decided to try and troubleshoot my > bad M7891-DC (128kw) in an 11/34a. > > Looks like I have no +12v. The 12v regulator seems to be working as I > have 12v up the 2A fuse. But nothing after that. > > I'm assuming the fuse has blown. Easy to replace, but I also suspect it > blew for a reason. (and replacing it might just yield another blown fuse > :-) Hmm, usually the transistors blow to protect the fuse... > Anyone seen this before? Do they sometimes blow due to transients? Fuses do just blow sometimes. You could try replacing it and seeing what happens, but make sure it's got the same rating. Another old audio amp trick is to use a car indicator bulb (12v, 21W) or tail light bulb (12v, 5W) across the fuse - if it's drawing a clearly silly current, the bulb will light. > I'm tempted to apply 12v after the fuse with a bench supply that has a > current regulator and see what it draws. It's been a while since I > worked with "plain old DRAMs" but I assume the 12v is for them (Vdd). Be careful - my bench PSU, when set to 12v, actually produces 6v-0-6v with chassis earth (and hence mains earth) being the 0v centre tap. What type of DRAM chip is it? I seem to recall that the 4116 DRAMs used in the ZX Spectrums tended to fail short-circuit between 12v and 0v. This usually stopped the chopper PSU that provided +12v and -5v from the nominal 9v input. This caused mad black-and-white flickering, because the RAM was reading out random garbage and the 12v supply also fed the colour encoder. HTH Gordon. From lyosnorezel at yahoo.com Thu Feb 5 10:55:26 2004 From: lyosnorezel at yahoo.com (Lyos Norezel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:13 2005 Subject: Need some schematics... anyone? In-Reply-To: <006201c3eb5b$361fa260$6401a8c0@knology.net> Message-ID: <20040205165526.25483.qmail@web41712.mail.yahoo.com> Paul Pennington wrote: "Lyos Norezel" asked: There have been a bunch of Z-80 projects over the years. Two books that describe Z-80 construction projects are: Z-80 Microcomputer Design Projects, by William Barden, Jr., Sams, 1980 Build Your Own Z80 Computer, by Steve Ciarcia, Byte Books, 1981 One other thought: just pick up a Texas Instruments 83+ calculator -- it has a Z-80 as its CPU. Thanks for the info... I'll have to look for those. Not that strange -- after the destruction of the Spanish Armada, sailors who swam ashore are supposed to have started several Spanish lines. I have a line from Scotland in my family tree with the name Caudill. There is speculation it was originally Cordillo. Paul Pennington Augusta, Georgia Are you interested in genealogy? If so you ought to talk to a good friend of mine... his name's Jason Peter Herbert and he's been tracing the Herbert/Zumbado/Cooley/Shields/Kingery/Alden/Mullins line for a few years now. You might find a connection in that line. If you want to talk to him send him an email at either of the below addresses. Lyos Gemini Norezel jasonpherbert@yahoo.com jasonherbert@oslb.net acevonwildfire@yahoo.com AceUSMC@aol.com --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online From lyosnorezel at yahoo.com Thu Feb 5 10:56:57 2004 From: lyosnorezel at yahoo.com (Lyos Norezel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:13 2005 Subject: Need some schematics... anyone? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040205165657.55248.qmail@web41713.mail.yahoo.com> Thanks for the links Sellam. Lyos Gemini Norezel Vintage Computer Festival wrote: Links from the VCF Link Library in the Vintage Microprocessor Resources: Z80: Home of the Z80 CPU http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Peaks/3938/z80_home.htm Z80 Based Projects: http://themotionstore.com/leeedavison/z80/ -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online From lyosnorezel at yahoo.com Thu Feb 5 11:02:02 2004 From: lyosnorezel at yahoo.com (Lyos Norezel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:13 2005 Subject: Need some schematics... anyone? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040205170202.62870.qmail@web41707.mail.yahoo.com> Ron... you seem to have gotten my message and Paul's mixed up... I was the one building the laptop and Paul responded with a few books for me to read if I can. As for the output... I'm gonna try to rig up my laptop LCD screen (1280x1024 max res) from my old PII system that is falling apart (I never liked it anyway). If it works I'll let ya'll know. Lyos Gemini Norezel Ron Hudson wrote: On Wednesday, February 4, 2004, at 06:27 PM, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: >>> Hey all... I am currently in the process of designing (and hopefully >>> later building) a dual Z80 laptop. Paul, What are you using for output? LCD screen? Where do you get it? --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online From Degnan at degnanco.net Thu Feb 5 12:28:10 2004 From: Degnan at degnanco.net (Degnan@degnanco.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:13 2005 Subject: This just in - Commodore B128 low profile computer (NOT 128D) Message-ID: With the help of Ed Shockley and his web site insectria.net I was able to get a very trashed B128 machine up and running correctly. He's the expert with the B128 and his site can answer most questions. Direct Link: http://personalpages.bellsouth.net/d/r/drshock/b128.html Bill >Message: 28 >Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 23:35:13 -0800 (PST) >From: steven >Subject: This just in - Commodore B128 low profile computer (NOT 128D) >To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >Message-ID: <20040205073513.81782.qmail@web40902.mail.yahoo.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > >Don't know much about it yet, but it sure is pretty! >Seems to work fine. > >It came out the same time as the C-64, supposed to >replace the PET and be their business computer, but >didn't sell well, I guess. From Van.Snyder at jpl.nasa.gov Thu Feb 5 20:48:55 2004 From: Van.Snyder at jpl.nasa.gov (Van.Snyder@jpl.nasa.gov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:13 2005 Subject: Bendix G-15 Message-ID: <200402060248.i162mtLx016867@math.jpl.nasa.gov> A correspondent claims that you have a complete set of Bendix G-15 manuals. Have you scanned them? Do you have any that Paul Pierce doesn't have (see http://www.piercefuller.com/collect/bendix/index.html)? Are you willing to lend them to have them scanned? Best regards, Van Snyder From vp at mcs.drexel.edu Thu Feb 5 21:15:37 2004 From: vp at mcs.drexel.edu (Vassilis Prevelakis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:13 2005 Subject: 'melted' tape roller Message-ID: <200402060315.i163FbZY003705@king.cs.drexel.edu> > > lot firmer), if you happen to have the liquid nitrogen.... > I didn't have any the last time I looked :) You should have come to the hacker's conference at Yosemite; somebody brought a 4 ft tall flask of liquid nitrogen for demos, but we also used some of it to make instant ice cream (excellent!). **vp From oliv555 at arrl.net Fri Feb 6 01:52:36 2004 From: oliv555 at arrl.net (Nick Oliviero) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:13 2005 Subject: another drive replacement mfr In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 5 Feb 2004 17:27:55 -0800 "Zane H. Healy" wrote: >>http://www.wilsonlabs.com/disk-drive-replacement.htm >> >>I see Wilson Labs, who used to sell disk and drive testers, >>is in the disk replacement biz now. > >Anyone have any idea how much their WBC 512 is? A MFM replacement >disk would be cool! > > Zane > Dunno about the MFM boxes, but we bought the RK05 replacement WBC3000's for the 11/45s at my workplace about 5 years ago. Try $3500, each. They consist of a single interface board and an internal SCSI removable drive. Initially came with Syquests which proceeded to die on a regular basis. Wilson then replaced them with Zip100's and they've been fairly reliable since. A single Zip cart in our units is formatted to emulate 22 rk05's, well below the Zip's capacity. The drawback is that they are switch addressable, i.e: the wilson box is seen as a single entity on the RK11 chain and only the selected partition is accessible. Whew. Long-winded response, sorry. I was bored. -nick o From esharpe at uswest.net Fri Feb 6 02:16:24 2004 From: esharpe at uswest.net (ed sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:13 2005 Subject: Greedy E-bay idiots! References: <200402052239.59025.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: <002601c3ec89$82ca0c20$25696e44@SONYDIGITALED> now what the hell is a 600 volt outlet? 110 220 440 maybe but 600 volt? hmm..... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patrick Finnegan" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2004 8:39 PM Subject: Re: Greedy E-bay idiots! > On Thursday 05 February 2004 18:53, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > On Thu, 5 Feb 2004, Joe R. wrote: > > > Have you ever noticed how many times some people will relist the > > > same item? I remember one item that I know the seller relisted at > > > least 8 times. They must be paying an arm and a leg in listing > > > fees. You'd think they'd wise up after it didn't sell the first > > > couple of times. > > > > Yeah, that really gets me. Especially when I make a reasonable offer > > on something that has received no bids at least a couple times, and > > the seller balks and relists it. By the time they actually do sell > > it (if ever) they are already in the hole with all the listing fees! > > > > Who ARE these people!? > > You mean like this guy? > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3075103057 > > That's been relisted on eBay since last Spring or maybe Winter. With a > $4k start bid, that can't be cheap. At this point it wouldn't suprise > me if he's spent hundres of $$ just relisting the machine. If he just > had some sense to either lower the opening bid or sell it in some other > venue that bought that kind of thing... And from an email exchange I > had with that guy when I was considering buying it, he's 1) got no idea > what he has and 2) is willing to sell it for less money. I think I > managed to get him down to $2500 or $2k - I'd be suprised if he > wouldn't have sold it by now if he'd set the start bid to something > near that. > > Of couse, he seems to resell Compaq PeeCee hardware, so he can't be all > that bright. ;) > > Pat > -- > Purdue University ITAP/RCS > Information Technology at Purdue > Research Computing and Storage > http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ > > From ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net Fri Feb 6 03:45:49 2004 From: ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:13 2005 Subject: waaa! Ebay Pollymorphic 88 Item number: 2784817061 Message-ID: <3EFAF06E-5889-11D8-93A8-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> And I am between jobs :^( From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Fri Feb 6 03:52:52 2004 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:13 2005 Subject: Atari Portfolio hard drives? In-Reply-To: <9C5DF2C2-586D-11D8-BADD-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> References: <9C5DF2C2-586D-11D8-BADD-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: In message <9C5DF2C2-586D-11D8-BADD-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> Ron Hudson wrote: > I'd love to just have an Atari Portfolio :^) I think I'll stick with my HP 700LX, thanks. OTOH, I would like a copy of dBase III or III+ for it :) Later. -- Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, philpem@dsl.pipex.com | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice, http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI From Christian.Corti at studserv.uni-stuttgart.de Fri Feb 6 03:53:12 2004 From: Christian.Corti at studserv.uni-stuttgart.de (Christian Corti) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:13 2005 Subject: RL02 Head install info In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 5 Feb 2004, Tony Duell wrote: > bad head. I've never actually done an RL head replacement, but I've done > it for RK05s, and I remember just replacing a single head if the other > one was OK. The heads do not come as matched pairs, any 'down' head will > work with any 'up' head. There are definitely different kind of RK05 heads. We had to replace the heads from a RK05 drive for our LAB8/e just two or three weesk ago. Trying to align the heads with an alignment pack and executing the data reliability tests revealed that there are low amplitude heads and high amplitude heads as well as low amplitude disk packs and high amplitude ones. The failed head was a high amplitude one and we tried several low amplitude heads that wouldn't work together with the read/write amplifier card. At last we found a head pair with high output. Afterwards we found a small note in one ECO manual for the RK05 that mentioned high and low amplitude packs but not heads. Our scope (btw. a very good Tek 555!) proved that there are different heads, too. Christian From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Feb 6 06:14:17 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:13 2005 Subject: cctalk Digest, Vol 6, Issue 13 In-Reply-To: References: <200402060258.i162wCOE058097@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040206071417.0082c8f0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 11:20 PM 2/5/04 -0500, you wrote: >> Message: 8 >> Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 15:01:12 -0500 >> From: "Joe R." >> Subject: Greedy E-bay idiots! >> To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040205150112.008ad5d0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> >> Did you guys see this? >> >5>. >> It's a thin manual for an EPROM programmer. This clown wants $9.80 for >> shipping AND $2.80 for insurance (REQUIRED no less). Actual postage for >> this via USPS bookrate is about 40 cents and insurance is 35 cents! How >do >> these clowns expect to stay in business! >> >> Joe > >Did you notice that it's coming from Canada? Yes. And? From pat at computer-refuge.org Fri Feb 6 07:17:35 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:13 2005 Subject: Greedy E-bay idiots! In-Reply-To: <002601c3ec89$82ca0c20$25696e44@SONYDIGITALED> References: <200402052239.59025.pat@computer-refuge.org> <002601c3ec89$82ca0c20$25696e44@SONYDIGITALED> Message-ID: <200402060817.35223.pat@computer-refuge.org> On Friday 06 February 2004 03:16, ed sharpe wrote: > now what the hell is a 600 volt outlet? > > 110 220 440 maybe but 600 volt? hmm..... > I've talked to Purdue's IBM SP rep (before our SP went off of maintenance contract because IBM wanted silly amounts for it), and he said "Yes, they make those". He said that they were common in some 3rd world countries, and sometimes used by the military in the US. Now, that's some "house wiring" I wouldn't want to have to do (or at least worry about nicking wires or some such)! I'm glad my S/390 came with the lower voltage 200-480VAC autoranging power supply. :) Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ From vax3900 at yahoo.com Fri Feb 6 07:57:30 2004 From: vax3900 at yahoo.com (SHAUN RIPLEY) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:13 2005 Subject: Need some schematics... anyone? In-Reply-To: <20040205170202.62870.qmail@web41707.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20040206135730.13904.qmail@web60702.mail.yahoo.com> --- Lyos Norezel wrote: > Ron... you seem to have gotten my message and Paul's > mixed up... I was the one building the laptop and > Paul responded with a few books for me to read if I > can. As for the output... I'm gonna try to rig up my > laptop LCD screen (1280x1024 max res) from my old > PII system that is falling apart (I never liked it > anyway). If it works I'll let ya'll know. > Lyos Gemini Norezel How is this one? http://sales.goldmine-elec.com/prodinfo.asp?prodid=8258 Note: I am not in any way related to this website. > > Ron Hudson wrote: > > On Wednesday, February 4, 2004, at 06:27 PM, Vintage > Computer Festival > wrote: > >>> Hey all... I am currently in the process of > designing (and hopefully > >>> later building) a dual Z80 laptop. > Paul, What are you using for output? LCD screen? > Where do you get it? > > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html From pkoning at equallogic.com Fri Feb 6 08:43:10 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:13 2005 Subject: RL02 Head install info References: Message-ID: <16419.43006.187000.402673@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Christian" == Christian Corti writes: Christian> On Thu, 5 Feb 2004, Tony Duell wrote: >> bad head. I've never actually done an RL head replacement, but >> I've done it for RK05s, and I remember just replacing a single >> head if the other one was OK. The heads do not come as matched >> pairs, any 'down' head will work with any 'up' head. Christian> There are definitely different kind of RK05 heads. We had Christian> to replace the heads from a RK05 drive for our LAB8/e just Christian> two or three weesk ago. Trying to align the heads with an Christian> alignment pack and executing the data reliability tests Christian> revealed that there are low amplitude heads and high Christian> amplitude heads as well as low amplitude disk packs and Christian> high amplitude ones. The failed head was a high amplitude Christian> one and we tried several low amplitude heads that wouldn't Christian> work together with the read/write amplifier card. At last Christian> we found a head pair with high output. Afterwards we Christian> found a small note in one ECO manual for the RK05 that Christian> mentioned high and low amplitude packs but not heads. Our Christian> scope (btw. a very good Tek 555!) proved that there are Christian> different heads, too. That's puzzling. On the other hand, I remember a difference between "up" and "down" heads, which has to do with the way the heads "fly" above the disk surface. The heads need the right amount of pressure towards the disk surface for the flying height to be correct. If it isn't, you'll get low amplitude (flying too high) or possibly head crashes (flying too low). For a head flying above the disk, gravity and the head mounting springs are pushing in the same direction; for a head flying below the disk, gravity is lifting the head away from the surface while the mounting springs push it to the surface. So I would expect a head meant to be above the disk to give low amplitude if installed below the disk. In any case, this is one explanation why it matters. paul From paul at frixxon.co.uk Fri Feb 6 08:45:22 2004 From: paul at frixxon.co.uk (Paul Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:13 2005 Subject: Where is the Comprehensive Computer Catalogue? Message-ID: <4023A882.3010003@frixxon.co.uk> Does anyone know whether Hans Pufal's Comprehensive Computer Catalogue is still around? His pages at ACONIT have gone, and Google didn't turn up any new location. Is Hans still on this list? I was reminded of this while looking at Tiziano's 1000Bit, which lists a little over 1000 computers; the CCC had over 5000 entries! -- Paul From brianmahoney at look.ca Fri Feb 6 10:18:18 2004 From: brianmahoney at look.ca (Brian Mahoney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:13 2005 Subject: Computer Collectors List - update Message-ID: <004701c3eccc$e708c120$0300a8c0@look.ca> For several years I have maintained a list of computer collectors on my home page and for the last year I have had a specific site at another url. The list has over 40 names on it. Besides listing the collectors and their contact information (well, most of them anyway) there is an email address for the list itself and I send out emails to list whenever I get a query about donations or sales. Ok, so far so good. The problem is that I don't have email addresses for everyone on the list. Also, there may be members of this group who would like to be on the list. Therefore : 1. Anyone who wants to be on the list, please send me an email at : antiquecomputers@hotmail.com Make sure you have a good email addy in your response. Thanks! 2. Anyone on the list who has not provided me with an email by March 1st will be deleted from the list until an emaill address is provided. Please don't respond to this post, unless it is to comment on the lists, respond to : antiquecomputers@hotmail.com Lastly, I assume that nearly everyone here has some sort of site on the web. Mine has been up since 1995, relocated in 1997, and has spawned hundreds of emails from all over the world. The list of collectors provides me with a place to turn when I get leads about computers in Europe and the States. Since I don't buy computers any more, only taking donations, any offers of computers for sale or from locations outside of metro Toronto that are sent to my home page email adress, are sent to the members of the list. ALL requests to the antiquecomputers@hotmail.com email address are re-sent to members of the list. Hope this makes sense ! Brian Mahoney From brianmahoney at look.ca Fri Feb 6 10:28:11 2004 From: brianmahoney at look.ca (Brian Mahoney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:13 2005 Subject: list urls - forgot to put them in References: <004701c3eccc$e708c120$0300a8c0@look.ca> Message-ID: <005201c3ecce$48d5dfe0$0300a8c0@look.ca> The standalone list is at this site : http://www.geocities.com/computercollectors/index.htm The same list is also available on a link from my personl page and is here : http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Horizon/9107/collectors.htm From brianmahoney at look.ca Fri Feb 6 10:41:04 2004 From: brianmahoney at look.ca (Brian Mahoney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:13 2005 Subject: Computer Collectors List - update References: <004701c3eccc$e708c120$0300a8c0@look.ca> Message-ID: <006001c3ecd0$1532a860$0300a8c0@look.ca> (I hope this attaches to my first post. My first attempt came up as a separate post. ) The standalone list is at this site : http://www.geocities.com/computercollectors/index.htm The same list is also available on a link from my personl page and is here : http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Horizon/9107/collectors.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Mahoney" To: Sent: Friday, February 06, 2004 11:18 AM Subject: Computer Collectors List - update For several years I have maintained a list of computer collectors on my home page and for the last year I have had a specific site at another url. The list has over 40 names on it. Besides listing the collectors and their contact information (well, most of them anyway) there is an email address for the list itself and I send out emails to list whenever I get a query about donations or sales. Ok, so far so good. The problem is that I don't have email addresses for everyone on the list. Also, there may be members of this group who would like to be on the list. Therefore : 1. Anyone who wants to be on the list, please send me an email at : antiquecomputers@hotmail.com Make sure you have a good email addy in your response. Thanks! 2. Anyone on the list who has not provided me with an email by March 1st will be deleted from the list until an emaill address is provided. Please don't respond to this post, unless it is to comment on the lists, respond to : antiquecomputers@hotmail.com Lastly, I assume that nearly everyone here has some sort of site on the web. Mine has been up since 1995, relocated in 1997, and has spawned hundreds of emails from all over the world. The list of collectors provides me with a place to turn when I get leads about computers in Europe and the States. Since I don't buy computers any more, only taking donations, any offers of computers for sale or from locations outside of metro Toronto that are sent to my home page email adress, are sent to the members of the list. ALL requests to the antiquecomputers@hotmail.com email address are re-sent to members of the list. Hope this makes sense ! Brian Mahoney From dwight.elvey at amd.com Fri Feb 6 11:51:21 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:13 2005 Subject: waaa! Ebay Pollymorphic 88 Item number: 2784817061 Message-ID: <200402061751.JAA05724@clulw009.amd.com> Hi All If someone on the list gets this, I have quite a bit of software that I've collected for this machine. It looks like someone has changed the machine to be a CPM machine. It looks to have both the serial ( rs232/20mil ) and cassette interfaces. It seems to be missing the video board ( where the keyboard would connect to ). If someone gets this, I do have a spare video board that I might be talked into trading for something else, if someone wanted to bring it back to an original condition. I also have quite a bit of documentation for the Poly88. It does require a parallel keyboard to work with the video board ( As I recall all console I/O can be revectored at boot using a ROM at 400h. This could make the serial be the console but I don't think the debug monitor is revectored ). Although, the ROM's on the CPU starts at address 0000h, there is a control bit that one can shadow the ROM and allow the machine to exist in complete RAM. I can explain this to anyone that wants to do so. The software I have is all Poly88 cassette based software. I have an assembler, BASIC, many of the Poly demo programs and I also have a ROM based tiny BASIC as well. I have also written code to bootstrap a system from the serial port ( does require the system debug monitor to function ). Dwight >From: "Ron Hudson" > >And I am between jobs :^( > > From willisj at atlantis.clogic-int.com Fri Feb 6 11:43:05 2004 From: willisj at atlantis.clogic-int.com (John Willis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:13 2005 Subject: IBM PC5150 monitor wanted/question In-Reply-To: <1076000010.4488.19.camel@weka.localdomain> from Jules Richardson at Feb "5, " 2004 "04:53:31" pm Message-ID: <200402061743.KAA14066@atlantis.clogic-int.com> I'm looking for the full-height 360k DSDD drives for my 5150 PC. The black ones, with the beefy latch that goes up and down rather than the swingingkind so prevalent on newer ones. Not terribly concerned about having the little IBM logo--my 5150's original drives didn't, IIRC It's a 1984-era 5150, with AMD processor and a 256kb motherboard, fully populated, an Everex memory expansion board with another 256k, a ST-506 interface connected to a 30MB hard drive, a Zenith Data Systems composite video monitor, and an ATi Graphics Solution CGA card. It originally had the two FH 360k drives and I would like to get back to that. -- John Willis UNIX Systems Administrator Associate Lockheed Martin IS&S CEO and Co-Founder Coherent Logic Development http://www.coherent-logic.com/ willisj@atlantis.clogic-int.com From ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net Fri Feb 6 12:43:24 2004 From: ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:13 2005 Subject: waaa! Ebay Pollymorphic 88 Item number: 2784817061 In-Reply-To: <200402061751.JAA05724@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <5861EA42-58D4-11D8-A773-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> Dwight, Do you still have the original documentation for the ROM monitor? Any way you could scan it? pretty please? I used to have a Polly 88, I was in the Navy on a destroyer, and it was not a good environment for an s100 computer, When the ship was at sea, it would rock back and forth a lot and my s100 would suffer from "impact poisoning", Finally I traded my polly 88 for an HP41C/Card Reader that was a bit more robust. Ron ron.hudson@sbcglobal.net On Friday, February 6, 2004, at 09:51 AM, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > > Hi All > If someone on the list gets this, I have quite a bit of software > that I've collected for this machine. It looks like someone has > changed the machine to be a CPM machine. It looks to have both > the serial ( rs232/20mil ) and cassette interfaces. It seems to > be missing the video board ( where the keyboard would connect to ). > If someone gets this, I do have a spare video board that I might > be talked into trading for something else, if someone wanted to > bring it back to an original condition. I also have quite a > bit of documentation for the Poly88. It does require a parallel > keyboard to work with the video board ( As I recall all console > I/O can be revectored at boot using a ROM at 400h. This could > make the serial be the console but I don't think the debug > monitor is revectored ). > Although, the ROM's on the CPU starts at address 0000h, there > is a control bit that one can shadow the ROM and allow the machine > to exist in complete RAM. I can explain this to anyone that wants > to do so. The software I have is all Poly88 cassette based software. > I have an assembler, BASIC, many of the Poly demo programs and > I also have a ROM based tiny BASIC as well. I have also written > code to bootstrap a system from the serial port ( does require > the system debug monitor to function ). > Dwight > >> From: "Ron Hudson" >> >> And I am between jobs :^( >> >> > From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Fri Feb 6 13:26:27 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:13 2005 Subject: Merlin Tonto monitor update Message-ID: Evenin' UK folks, afternoon US folks :) I've just stripped down the Tonto monitor that was screeching and I was amazed and not a little alarmed to discover that the HT lead to the tube had physically come away! How the hells can that happen when it's just been sitting on a shelf? After appearing in the pix on my Tonto page it went back downstairs and sat on the floor of the storage room for a few months before I found shelf space to put it on! Weird. -- Adrian/Witchy Owner & Webmaster, Binary Dinosaurs www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From waltje at pdp11.nl Fri Feb 6 14:14:40 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:13 2005 Subject: *grunt* Message-ID: Sorry, just gotta let off steam. Got two new DEC RoamAbout cards... bah! These are the UK version, so wont to the one in my AP... *bah* --f -- Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist Visit the VAXlab Project at http://VAXlab.pdp11.nl/ Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Mountain View, CA, USA From waltje at pdp11.nl Fri Feb 6 14:29:38 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:13 2005 Subject: gcc cross compiler for PDP-11 In-Reply-To: <20040203133444.GE25748@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: On Tue, 3 Feb 2004, Jochen Kunz wrote: > GCC 2.95 has serious problems corss compiling across the LP32 / LP64 > boundary. I can say this out of my own experience as a NetBSD hacker. Not relevant for the -11 backend :) --f From lists at microvax.org Fri Feb 6 14:33:59 2004 From: lists at microvax.org (meltie) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:13 2005 Subject: *grunt* In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200402062034.00301.lists@microvax.org> On Friday 06 February 2004 20:14, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > Sorry, just gotta let off steam. Got two new DEC RoamAbout > cards... bah! These are the UK version, so wont to the one > in my AP... Won't they at least sync up to each other? What's so different about UK vs. US versions? Want to dump them on someone in the UK? ;) alex/melt From waltje at pdp11.nl Fri Feb 6 14:39:37 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:13 2005 Subject: *grunt* In-Reply-To: <200402062034.00301.lists@microvax.org> Message-ID: On Fri, 6 Feb 2004, meltie wrote: > On Friday 06 February 2004 20:14, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > > Sorry, just gotta let off steam. Got two new DEC RoamAbout > > cards... bah! These are the UK version, so wont to the one > > in my AP... > > Won't they at least sync up to each other? What's so different about UK vs. > US versions? Basically, the 2.4G cards using FH did not yet use the more or less standardized channels, since they werent there yet. Instead, different sets of usable channels were defined for each of the various (mostly non-US) countries, making them largely incomatible because of that :( What we *really* need is a firmware blaster, to re-blast a single image into all of these critters- obviously, their hardware is exactly the same, its just the software settings... > Want to dump them on someone in the UK? ;) I might, eventually.. --f From jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to Fri Feb 6 15:25:46 2004 From: jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:13 2005 Subject: [SPAM] - Re: Computer Collectors List - update - Bayesian Filter detected spam References: <004701c3eccc$e708c120$0300a8c0@look.ca> <006001c3ecd0$1532a860$0300a8c0@look.ca> Message-ID: <4024065A.AC936305@compsys.to> >Brian Mahoney wrote: > (I hope this attaches to my first post. My first attempt came up as a > separate post. ) > The standalone list is at this site : > http://www.geocities.com/computercollectors/index.htm > The same list is also available on a link from my personl page and is here : > http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Horizon/9107/collectors.htm > From: "Brian Mahoney" > To: > Sent: Friday, February 06, 2004 11:18 AM > Subject: Computer Collectors List - update > For several years I have maintained a list of computer collectors on my home > page and for the last year I have had a specific site at another url. The > list has over 40 names on it. Besides listing the collectors and their > contact information (well, most of them anyway) there is an email address > for the list itself and I send out emails to list whenever I get a query > about donations or sales. > > Ok, so far so good. The problem is that I don't have email addresses for > everyone on the list. Also, there may be members of this group who would > like to be on the list. Therefore : > > 1. Anyone who wants to be on the list, please send me an email at : > antiquecomputers@hotmail.com > Make sure you have a good email addy in your response. Thanks! > > 2. Anyone on the list who has not provided me with an email by March 1st > will be deleted from the list until an emaill address is provided. > > Please don't respond to this post, unless it is to comment on the lists, > respond to : antiquecomputers@hotmail.com > > Lastly, I assume that nearly everyone here has some sort of site on the web. > Mine has been up since 1995, relocated in 1997, and has spawned hundreds of > emails from all over the world. The list of collectors provides me with a > place to turn when I get leads about computers in Europe and the States. > Since I don't buy computers any more, only taking donations, any offers of > computers for sale or from locations outside of metro Toronto that are sent > to my home page email adress, are sent to the members of the list. ALL > requests to the antiquecomputers@hotmail.com email address are re-sent to > members of the list. Hope this makes sense ! Jerome Fine replies: Your links can't be used by the version of Netscape that I am using - V4.78. Do you think it might be possible to make it backward compatible? Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From arcarlini at iee.org Fri Feb 6 15:41:02 2004 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:13 2005 Subject: *grunt* In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <004a01c3ecf9$ec85cf30$5b01a8c0@athlon> > What we *really* need is a firmware blaster, to re-blast a > single image into all of these critters- obviously, their > hardware is exactly the same, its just the software settings... The new (802.11b) firmware was available from Cabletron and/or DNPG. But the firmware you seem to have (the pre-802.11b stuff, ie the original stuff) is harder to get hold of (ctron/dnpg stopped making it available on the web years ago). So you want to find some way of preserving it before you go overwriting it. (Always assuming there *is* some way of getting it off again). Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From waltje at pdp11.nl Fri Feb 6 16:10:10 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:13 2005 Subject: *grunt* In-Reply-To: <004a01c3ecf9$ec85cf30$5b01a8c0@athlon> Message-ID: On Fri, 6 Feb 2004, Antonio Carlini wrote: > The new (802.11b) firmware was available from Cabletron > and/or DNPG. Yes. > But the firmware you seem to have (the > pre-802.11b stuff, ie the original stuff) is harder > to get hold of (ctron/dnpg stopped making it available > on the web years ago). Yes, that was apparent. The real question is.. how/where do we find it. > So you want to find some > way of preserving it before you go overwriting it. > (Always assuming there *is* some way of getting > it off again). The tools they used to localize the generic cards by blasting a set of {firmware+settings} would be needed. I assume this was done by DEC, not Ctron, so I'll just have to find someone who knows about it and bother to no end... --f From bowlarol at rochester.rr.com Fri Feb 6 14:51:33 2004 From: bowlarol at rochester.rr.com (BowlARoll) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:13 2005 Subject: 3M/Imation DC2000 tapes Message-ID: <000801c3ecf3$01813980$86d8d518@BOWLAROLL> Hello: Are these tapes available and at what cost? You can reach me at 585-427-7250. Thanks. 20 Imation DC2000 40meg Bill From order at saracom.com Fri Feb 6 12:51:47 2004 From: order at saracom.com (order@saracom.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:14 2005 Subject: 600 Volt Outlet - was "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Message-ID: <20040206105148.1551.h010.c000.wm@mail.saracom.com.criticalpath.net> > Message: 21 > Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 01:16:24 -0700 > From: "ed sharpe" > Subject: Re: Greedy E-bay idiots! > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > Message-ID: > <002601c3ec89$82ca0c20$25696e44@SONYDIGITALED> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > now what the hell is a 600 volt outlet? > > 110 220 440 maybe but 600 volt? hmm..... > > I use it all the time but in a non-standard application. I do AC power fault simulation on Telco equipment. Since the tranformers are standard off the shelf units, I thought I would ask an engineer friend. Industrial induction motors use 1000 volt feed from a delt transformer. It comes out 1000 line to line or 577 line to ground. 577 is effectively 600. Most of your wiring and other devices are rated at 600vac. Max From waltje at pdp11.nl Fri Feb 6 17:19:18 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:14 2005 Subject: *blush (RE: *grunt*) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hrrm. You know... sometimes it *really* helps to ask a woman whether you still look OK or not..... I basically realized, that *although* the RoamAbout card *did* see the access point, it did not get any traffic through. That is, hmm, odd. ... until it daunted upon me. "AHEM. Is the segment on which the AP resides, actually connected to the backbone????" So.. I ran upstairs, and sure enough... the BNC connector from that segment was unplugged from the DEMPR. Waaaaah! Why? Well, I had a weird problem here when I was in the U.S., and I had my jump-in sys admin disconnect all networks that were not needed for core operations.... :( So there. It works now. At least the UK and DE/NL versions of the RoamAbout cards *do* talk together. They both hate the U.S. card, though.... Cheers, Fred -- Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist Visit the VAXlab Project at http://VAXlab.pdp11.nl/ Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Mountain View, CA, USA From jpl15 at panix.com Fri Feb 6 17:39:18 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:14 2005 Subject: Dec core mem on eBay Message-ID: I snagged this for $20.... just for a nice trophy. Suprising no one else bid on it... http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3075270294&category=1479&sspagename=STRK%3AMEBWN%3AIT&rd=1 Anyway - thought it would look cool unfolded and hanging on the Machine Room wall.... Cheers John From brianmahoney at look.ca Fri Feb 6 17:42:16 2004 From: brianmahoney at look.ca (Brian Mahoney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:14 2005 Subject: [SPAM] - Re: Computer Collectors List - update - Bayesian Filter detected spam References: <004701c3eccc$e708c120$0300a8c0@look.ca><006001c3ecd0$1532a860$0300a8c0@look.ca> <4024065A.AC936305@compsys.to> Message-ID: <001701c3ed0a$ecd5db40$0300a8c0@look.ca> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerome H. Fine" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Friday, February 06, 2004 4:25 PM Subject: Re: [SPAM] - Re: Computer Collectors List - update - Bayesian Filter detected spam > >Brian Mahoney wrote: I'm not really sure how to do that, I use Dreamweaver to set up the page. I'll check the settings to see what comes up. I know that IE6 always says 'done but with errors' and what the heck that means, I'll never know. Let me work on it. B.M. > Jerome Fine replies: > > Your links can't be used by the version of Netscape that > I am using - V4.78. Do you think it might be possible to > make it backward compatible? > > Sincerely yours, > > Jerome Fine > -- > If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail > address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk > e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be > obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the > 'at' with the four digits of the current year. > > From dvcorbin at optonline.net Fri Feb 6 19:24:22 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:14 2005 Subject: Dec core mem on eBay In-Reply-To: Message-ID: John, hopefully you are joking about using this card as "art". There are many of us who could and would put it do good use in an active machine. David. -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of John Lawson Sent: Friday, February 06, 2004 6:39 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Dec core mem on eBay I snagged this for $20.... just for a nice trophy. Suprising no one else bid on it... http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3075270294&category=1479& sspagename=STRK%3AMEBWN%3AIT&rd=1 Anyway - thought it would look cool unfolded and hanging on the Machine Room wall.... Cheers John From jwest at classiccmp.org Fri Feb 6 19:42:08 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:14 2005 Subject: HP2000/Access - (benchmarks) References: Message-ID: <003301c3ed1b$99953be0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Mike wrote.... > Here's a quick chain test for doing 255 (+-) chains with timing for my > SIMH configuration as described (about 23 sec.) I would hope that real hardware > would out perform it. If not I'll have to think about what could be wrong with > the simulator and come up with another test. Let me know what you get, Jay, next > time you have her up. Chain test results on dual 2100(32Kw) 7906 drive 28 2 28 45 this should mean about 43 seconds Notes: 1) This test really doesn't test much other than the disk drive data transfer rate, cpu excercising is negligable. 2) An emulator should vastly outperform a real disk drive, especially assuming "short cuts" are taken and internally the software isn't going through the same steps the real hardware is. Jay West From jwest at classiccmp.org Fri Feb 6 19:47:00 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:14 2005 Subject: stuff noticed at surplus in st. louis Message-ID: <003901c3ed1c$4856a150$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> A couple of PowerMac 5260/100 machines, condition unknown (forgive me if this is too recent for the list, I know nothing about them as to age). They recently got in a HUGE shipment of old tubes.. all different sizes... some pretty odd looking ones too. Anyone want me to look for a particular one? Jay West From jpl15 at panix.com Fri Feb 6 20:03:51 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:14 2005 Subject: Dec core mem on eBay In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, 6 Feb 2004, David V. Corbin wrote: > John, hopefully you are joking about using this card as "art". There are > many of us who could and would put it do good use in an active machine. Yo Dave: Keep yer shirt on. If you look at the pix on the ebay page, you will notice that this is only half the system, and I contacted the seller (who I know) - it's all they have. Its just the core planes and the switching logic. Its a 32KW stack, BTW... I have been active in this hobby for many years, have owned several very rare systems and devices, and rescued and put back in service my share of legacy computing machinery, software and docs and books. I give a lot of volunteer time as well. I deplore folks who tear up computing history for 'art' if there's a good chance that a system could be 'saved' otherwise. There is a special place in Hell for one individual of my acquaintance, who's "hobby" is collecting just the console panels from mainframes and minis - the which Hobby he pursues with screwdriver and diagonal cutters. He sees nothing wrong with that activity, BTW... ;{} In this case - I'm not *destroying* the board, and anyway it's condition is unknown - could already be electrical trash - I won't know until I get it. But nonetheless, I intend to frame it, open, and hang it on the wall in my machine room, Dave. I think it's beautiful, and I think it's enough of a piece of computing history that various people might like to have a look at real core memory. Our IT guy at work has been doing computers for a living for quite a while, and he had no real idea what the word 'core' actually meant.... Now, if it came to my attention that there was a specific, rare or one-of-a-kind machine that could be restored to full operation but for the board that I have - you can bet it would be in FedEx the next day to that site, and I'd find another. Anyway, DEC core stacks are not all that rare - two of the machines from my last big collection had core memory. I want this one to be a display piece in my personal collection... and so it shall be. Cheerz John From dvcorbin at optonline.net Fri Feb 6 20:39:51 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:14 2005 Subject: Dec core mem on eBay In-Reply-To: Message-ID: John, Glad to hear it, sorry if I jumped on you, but it had been a rough day, and I recently lost a good shot at an acquisition to a person known for "kut and scrap". My apologies. David. -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of John Lawson Sent: Friday, February 06, 2004 9:04 PM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: RE: Dec core mem on eBay On Fri, 6 Feb 2004, David V. Corbin wrote: > John, hopefully you are joking about using this card as "art". There are > many of us who could and would put it do good use in an active machine. Yo Dave: Keep yer shirt on. If you look at the pix on the ebay page, you will notice that this is only half the system, and I contacted the seller (who I know) - it's all they have. Its just the core planes and the switching logic. Its a 32KW stack, BTW... I have been active in this hobby for many years, have owned several very rare systems and devices, and rescued and put back in service my share of legacy computing machinery, software and docs and books. I give a lot of volunteer time as well. I deplore folks who tear up computing history for 'art' if there's a good chance that a system could be 'saved' otherwise. There is a special place in Hell for one individual of my acquaintance, who's "hobby" is collecting just the console panels from mainframes and minis - the which Hobby he pursues with screwdriver and diagonal cutters. He sees nothing wrong with that activity, BTW... ;{} In this case - I'm not *destroying* the board, and anyway it's condition is unknown - could already be electrical trash - I won't know until I get it. But nonetheless, I intend to frame it, open, and hang it on the wall in my machine room, Dave. I think it's beautiful, and I think it's enough of a piece of computing history that various people might like to have a look at real core memory. Our IT guy at work has been doing computers for a living for quite a while, and he had no real idea what the word 'core' actually meant.... Now, if it came to my attention that there was a specific, rare or one-of-a-kind machine that could be restored to full operation but for the board that I have - you can bet it would be in FedEx the next day to that site, and I'd find another. Anyway, DEC core stacks are not all that rare - two of the machines from my last big collection had core memory. I want this one to be a display piece in my personal collection... and so it shall be. Cheerz John From ohh at drizzle.com Fri Feb 6 20:51:18 2004 From: ohh at drizzle.com (O. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:14 2005 Subject: Dec core mem on eBay In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Quoth John Lawson: > If you look at the pix on the ebay page, you will notice that this is only > half the system, and I contacted the seller (who I know) - it's all they > have. Its just the core planes and the switching logic. Its a 32KW > stack, BTW... 32Kw x 18, and with ICs around the core planes... was this for a PDP-15, or perhaps a PDP-9? > [...] nonetheless, I intend to frame it, open, and hang it on the wall > in my machine room, Dave. I think it's beautiful, and I think it's enough > of a piece of computing history that various people might like to have a > look at real core memory. Our IT guy at work has been doing computers for > a living for quite a while, and he had no real idea what the word 'core' > actually meant.... Core memories are indeed beautiful. That is, until you have to find and repair a bad connection on one... ...well, okay, they're _still_ beautiful, but in an infinitely more frustrating sort of way. :) I think it's amusing that there are computer people who have never seen or worked with core memory. O'course, I also have coworkers who have never owned a 33-1/3 record, and more recently coworkers who think the idea of a telephone with a cord attached is antiquated. Damn. I _am_ getting old, aren't I? :) -O.- ...but then, I've never used a punch-card or a drum memory, so maybe I _am_ young. :) :) From jpl15 at panix.com Fri Feb 6 20:54:53 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:14 2005 Subject: Dec core mem on eBay In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, 6 Feb 2004, David V. Corbin wrote: > John, > > Glad to hear it, sorry if I jumped on you, but it had been a rough day, and > I recently lost a good shot at an acquisition to a person known for "kut and > scrap". Well I know. There's an original ad for the Bendix G-15 (I had one once...) on eBay that I stopped bidding on after it got above $20... but the high bidder's 'me' page says he's a preservationist, so we'll see. And I've missed many things over the years... "Oh, we thought that was junk." For example - I work in the same building as a manufacturing company with dozens of metal-working machines. I'm good friends with the foreman, who has been an NC and CNC master machinist for many years. I was telling him about my collection - and he said, "Hey - you don't want an old Flexowriter or two...? they're up on the shelf in my old shop in Palo Alto." Well you can imagine my response. BUT: Long story short... they were tossed in the dumpster in September of last year to make room for an upgraded phone system.... YYYAAHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!! ;{ GRRRRR... So it's part and parcel of our Hobby... just because *I* see a rack of PDP11 stuff in a certain light doesn't necessarily map onto the conciousness of the poor schmoe who has to get it out of the warehouse and onto the loading dock and into the roll-off before the scrap company shows up to haul all that old shit away... And thanks for your well-meant concern! Without us, there'd be no LGP-20s, Bendix G-15s, Apple Is.... left in the world. Cheers John From jwest at classiccmp.org Fri Feb 6 20:59:49 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:14 2005 Subject: Atari available Message-ID: <004001c3ed26$7342e590$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Local surplus dealer has an Atari 800XL available, he held it for me cause he knows I collect computers. However, I have no interest in it. He just wants someone to make him an offer. No monitor or power supply, condition unknown. He probably doesn't want much for it. Email me if you want his contact info. Jay West From dvcorbin at optonline.net Fri Feb 6 21:04:36 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:14 2005 Subject: Dec core mem on eBay In-Reply-To: Message-ID: -0.- Speaking of vinyl...Do you have any 78s or even better 16s? (I have about 40 from 1955 and earlier!) If you never dropped a box on unmarked, non-sequenced cards, you havent lived!!! =============================== John. I know a person (local here on LI) who has 3x ASR-33, 1x ASR-43, 1x Freiden Flexowriter (exact model unknown at this point). All believed to be in working order. The problem is that will only dig them out of storage for someone who will take the entire lot. I have no interest in the Flexowriter (but would never want to see one destroyed), and can really only use one of the ASR-33's. If you would be interested in helping to split up the lot (he wants a fairly high price, but if the quality is good....), please contact me off list. ========================== David... From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Feb 6 21:09:53 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:14 2005 Subject: Atari available In-Reply-To: <004001c3ed26$7342e590$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> References: <004001c3ed26$7342e590$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <40245701.9080408@atarimuseum.com> Thanks Jay, I have plenty of them, I'm going to pass. Curt Jay West wrote: >Local surplus dealer has an Atari 800XL available, he held it for me cause >he knows I collect computers. However, I have no interest in it. He just >wants someone to make him an offer. No monitor or power supply, condition >unknown. He probably doesn't want much for it. Email me if you want his >contact info. > >Jay West > > > > -- Curt Vendel & Karl Morris ----------------------------------------------------------------------- The Atari Museum http://www.atarimuseum.com The Atari Explorer http://www.atari-explorer.com From jwest at classiccmp.org Fri Feb 6 21:10:44 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:14 2005 Subject: more on ibm paradise card Message-ID: <006201c3ed27$f9cf5d90$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Ok, took a closer look at the paradise card in my IBM 5150. It's actually two full length boards, stacked together with standoffs. The "main" board has on the back bracket (from top to bottom), a two position slide switch, a DE9, an RCA jack, and another DE9. Has a sticker saying "DM104338", I'm guessing a serial number maybe. Etched on the board is "Assy 15100". On the second board in the stack, it says "Paradise Systems, Inc." and "Multidisplay card". Silkscreened on the board is "Assy 15200", and "CADAC M01". Also has a sticker, "DM504338", and here's the kicker... hanging off this full length "daughter card" is a ribbon cable that goes to a 2nd bracket with a DB25F connector, I would guess parallel port. >From googling on the net, best I can decipher (VERY little info on it), it may be a combo MDA/CGA card. Can anyone fill in any more info? Jay West From jwest at classiccmp.org Fri Feb 6 21:12:43 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:14 2005 Subject: Dec core mem on eBay References: Message-ID: <006a01c3ed28$4103d1f0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> > If you never dropped a box on unmarked, non-sequenced cards, you havent > lived!!! If they are unmarked, there is no problem ;) I'm a young 39, and I HAVE programmed on punched cards, both on an IBM 24 I think it was, submitting programs to VM/CMS/HASP, and also on an HP2000C & HP2000/Access :) From dvcorbin at optonline.net Fri Feb 6 22:08:36 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:14 2005 Subject: Dec core mem on eBay In-Reply-To: <006a01c3ed28$4103d1f0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: >>> If you never dropped a box on unmarked, non-sequenced cards, you havent >>> lived!!! >>If they are unmarked, there is no problem ;) I was not referring to un-punched cards, but rather to cards that contained ordered data (such as program source without line numbers) which had not been marked with a pen/pencil/crayon diagonally across the top of the deck. Without the mark, sorting out the cards was virtually impossible. At least with a diagonal mark each card would have a short line on the top edge. Cards from the front of the deck would have the line on the left, cards from the back on the right. This gave a quick method of getting the cards back into order. A card that was out of sequence would show rather quickly when the deck was re-assembled. From nico at farumdata.dk Fri Feb 6 23:00:50 2004 From: nico at farumdata.dk (Nico de Jong) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:14 2005 Subject: 3M/Imation DC2000 tapes References: <000801c3ecf3$01813980$86d8d518@BOWLAROLL> Message-ID: <002101c3ed37$5bab19f0$2201a8c0@finans> >Are these tapes available and at what cost? You can reach me at 585-427-7250. Thanks. >20 Imation DC2000 40meg >Bill I have at least 10 DC2120 tapes from Mitsubishi available, all new AFAIR We can discuss the price. Dont forget the Postage Nico From technobug at comcast.net Fri Feb 6 23:29:03 2004 From: technobug at comcast.net (CRC) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:14 2005 Subject: Aluminum Electrolytics (was: M7891-DC 2a fuse on +12? fixed!) In-Reply-To: <200402060258.i162wCOE058097@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <200402060258.i162wCOE058097@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <8A7F02B6-592E-11D8-AAFD-003065B0DA30@comcast.net> On On Thu, 5 Feb 2004 15:47:34 -0800 (PST), Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > One second? I've always been told to do this over the course of at > least > a couple hours in 5V increments. > > If I can be doing this in a much quicker time then I'd really like to > know > about it. > [...] And on Thu, 5 Feb 2004 19:04:52 -0500 (EST), ohn Lawson also wrote: > Then duck! IMHO opinion, and over 40+ years experience, to reform > funky caps takes anywhere from a few minutes to over an hour, > depending on > many variables. If you think you've formed an electrolytic in one > second, > it was either tiny or good-to-begin-with. > > But the thing most folks forget is to somehow monitor the *current* > being drawn during the Process of Reformation. > > Here endeth the Lesson. > > > >> >> One second? I've always been told to do this over the course of at >> least >> a couple hours in 5V increments. >> > > > Again - it depends on the voltage/capacity of the filters involved, > and > just how "bad" gthey are. One simply cannot place an arbitrary > voltage/time delta on all power supplies. > > The Ammeter (or it's analog) is here your friend. > Also at Thu, 5 Feb 2004 16:12:53 -0800, "vrs" commented: >>>> >>>> To safely re-energize a piece of equipment that is long in the tooth >>>> and has been sitting around for some time, you have to bring the >>>> voltage up relatively slowly to allow the electrolytic caps to >>>> re-polarize. Everyone who is collecting should own a good-sized > Variac. >>>> You power the box up by bringing the voltage from naught to the >>>> operational level with the Variac over a period of about a second or >> >> Then duck! IMHO opinion, and over 40+ years experience, to reform >> funky caps takes anywhere from a few minutes to over an hour, >> depending on >> many variables. If you think you've formed an electrolytic in one >> second, >> it was either tiny or good-to-begin-with. > > When I read this, I took it to mean the Variac was a preferred method > for > turning on equipment *after* the caps had been reformed, as a matter of > routine. (Otherwise it made no sense to me, based on what I know of > reformation.) That may not be a good idea, but I couldn't dismiss it > out of > hand. > I reference , and excellent overview of aluminum capacitors... The controlling parameter in reforming a capacitor is the amount of heat generated. Generate too much and you blow things up. We have to consider two cases: the capacitor is in circuit, or out of circuit. In the latter case, the recommended method of reforming is by applying the forming voltage through a limiting resistor and then letting the capacitor form at voltage over a period of time with the limiting resistor in circuit. As commented above, the current should be monitored, but the critical term is the final leakage current. If it is out of spec, there is nothing you can do... A capacitor manufacturer used to be in town and they had to monitor old stock for mil spec reasons. Their criteria for reforming old stock was a case temp rise of no more than 5 degrees C and the leakage current had to be in spec in less than 10 minutes. An old electrolytic that takes a long time to reform has probably lost electrolyte and should be considered suspect (its ESR is probably miserable and capacitance below spec). The case of in-circuit caps: With a lot of equipment, if you put it in a brown-out condition, you can fry the silicon. Older switchers are notorious for burning up when operated below their minimum voltage for any length of time. In any case, when lighting equipment, the primary concern is the front end caps. If the leakage current is substantial, you will blow the fuse or take out the rectifier (valves don't have this problem). By using a Variac to bring up the voltage over several seconds, you mitigate the surge and allow initial reforming to take place. If things go, you might as well replace the caps. Depending on the power supply, caps down stream will either see the operating voltage and have to "live" or, in the case where the power supply current limits, will pull down the power supply until formed, if . In the case of switchers, they have a tendency to *turn on* if substantially over-rated (hey, remember we have been taught that it's only current that counts ;<)). So all is not cut and dried. You have to know what you are working with... Hey, and I match your 40+ and raise you a few... From esharpe at uswest.net Fri Feb 6 23:30:19 2004 From: esharpe at uswest.net (ed sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:14 2005 Subject: 600 Volt Outlet - was "General Discussion: On-Topic andOff-Topic Posts" References: <20040206105148.1551.h010.c000.wm@mail.saracom.com.criticalpath.net> Message-ID: <002301c3ed3b$799977a0$25696e44@SONYDIGITALED> Yes I know the wiring is rated at 600 but I have not seen any semi modern gear that required it.... ed! ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, February 06, 2004 11:51 AM Subject: Re: 600 Volt Outlet - was "General Discussion: On-Topic andOff-Topic Posts" > > Message: 21 > > Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 01:16:24 -0700 > > From: "ed sharpe" > > Subject: Re: Greedy E-bay idiots! > > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > > > Message-ID: > > <002601c3ec89$82ca0c20$25696e44@SONYDIGITALED> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > > > now what the hell is a 600 volt outlet? > > > > 110 220 440 maybe but 600 volt? hmm..... > > > > > > I use it all the time but in a non-standard > application. I do AC power fault simulation on > Telco equipment. Since the tranformers are standard > off the shelf units, I thought I would ask an engineer > friend. > > Industrial induction motors use 1000 volt feed from a > delt transformer. It comes out 1000 line to line or > 577 line to ground. 577 is effectively 600. Most > of your wiring and other devices are rated at 600vac. > > Max > > From aek at spies.com Fri Feb 6 23:45:30 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:14 2005 Subject: Dec core mem on eBay Message-ID: <200402070545.i175jUMe011877@spies.com> 32Kw x 18, and with ICs around the core planes... was this for a PDP-15, or perhaps a PDP-9? -- byte parity From jpl15 at panix.com Fri Feb 6 23:56:50 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:14 2005 Subject: Aluminum Electrolytics (was: M7891-DC 2a fuse on +12? fixed!) In-Reply-To: <8A7F02B6-592E-11D8-AAFD-003065B0DA30@comcast.net> References: <200402060258.i162wCOE058097@huey.classiccmp.org> <8A7F02B6-592E-11D8-AAFD-003065B0DA30@comcast.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 6 Feb 2004, CRC wrote: > > So all is not cut and dried. You have to know what you are working > with... Hey, and I match your 40+ and raise you a few... > > [finds reading glasses, Geritol, don't need teeth... lessee here] Waaaallll.... no duh! BUT: I was preaching to the congregation, not the choir. You and I probably can deliver chapter and verse on the care and feeding of fundamental components, their history and evolution, physics, chemistry, mechanics and electronics of them... no doubt. But a lot of folks on the list (most of the folks on the List) are not EEs or MSEs or PhDEs... and we have a very mixed approach to actual 'electronics' - from those who have long careers behind them in design and implementation of electronic circuits and devices - to those to whom electricity is a mystery, an unknown field. So when it is stated in simple language that one can form/reform questionable electrolytics in 'one second' with a Variac (or whatever) - this is exposing people to danger and property to damage, IMHO. That's the point I was trying to make - that there is no 'general case' when bringing up gear with long inop times - and that one cannot prescribe a fixed time span to reform the caps in a (linear) power supply by the Variac method, unless one is aware of the various other points you bring up. And of course you're spot-on in reference to SMPSUs - 'brown' input voltages will often kill 'em dead. And speaking of War Stories: Ever been in the same room with an exploding 1.7F 800VDC storage bank? It's LOUD...... ;} Cheers John From vax3900 at yahoo.com Sat Feb 7 00:15:30 2004 From: vax3900 at yahoo.com (SHAUN RIPLEY) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:14 2005 Subject: stuff noticed at surplus in st. louis In-Reply-To: <003901c3ed1c$4856a150$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <20040207061530.91584.qmail@web60704.mail.yahoo.com> Why not grab them all and put them on Ebay. There are other groups of people who collect old tubes. I personally have a tube radio... It is junk in their eyes though (it is an AA5). I know that people are looking for 300B tubes, and some other big tubes. Do them a favor, save those tubes. vax3900 --- Jay West wrote: > A couple of PowerMac 5260/100 machines, condition > unknown (forgive me if > this is too recent for the list, I know nothing > about them as to age). > > They recently got in a HUGE shipment of old tubes.. > all different sizes... > some pretty odd looking ones too. Anyone want me to > look for a particular > one? > > Jay West > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Sat Feb 7 00:15:20 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:14 2005 Subject: Aluminum Electrolytics (was: M7891-DC 2a fuse on +12? fixed!) In-Reply-To: References: <200402060258.i162wCOE058097@huey.classiccmp.org> <8A7F02B6-592E-11D8-AAFD-003065B0DA30@comcast.net> Message-ID: <200402070634.BAA00287@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > And speaking of War Stories: Ever been in the same room with an > exploding 1.7F 800VDC storage bank? > It's LOUD...... Hardly surprising, given how much energy is lurking therein. If my arithmetic is right, that's about .3kWh. Release it all at once - or even any significant fraction thereof - and yes, it's gonna go bang! What was a 1.36 kilocoulomb bank used for, anyway? Railgun? /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From jcwren at jcwren.com Sat Feb 7 01:34:48 2004 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:14 2005 Subject: Aluminum Electrolytics In-Reply-To: <200402070634.BAA00287@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> References: <200402060258.i162wCOE058097@huey.classiccmp.org> <8A7F02B6-592E-11D8-AAFD-003065B0DA30@comcast.net> <200402070634.BAA00287@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <40249518.3080703@jcwren.com> der Mouse wrote: >>And speaking of War Stories: Ever been in the same room with an >>exploding 1.7F 800VDC storage bank? >> >> > > > >>It's LOUD...... >> >> > >Hardly surprising, given how much energy is lurking therein. If my >arithmetic is right, that's about .3kWh. Release it all at once - or >even any significant fraction thereof - and yes, it's gonna go bang! > >What was a 1.36 kilocoulomb bank used for, anyway? Railgun? > >/~\ The ASCII der Mouse >\ / Ribbon Campaign > X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca >/ \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B > > I'd guess a medium power laser. --jc From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Sat Feb 7 04:15:29 2004 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:14 2005 Subject: Dec core mem on eBay In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6e5df27c4c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> In message "O. Sharp" wrote: > ...but then, I've never used a punch-card or a drum memory, so maybe I > _am_ young. :) :) Um. I'm probably a bit worse than that (depending on your point of view) - I've never seen an 8" floppy disc and I've never even seen - let alone used - a papertape reader/punch. Seeing as it was more-or-less the only reasonably-priced data storage format available at the time the 6502 was released, I thought it would only be fair to let the 6502 have some form of papertape storage. Guess I'm stuck with 3.5" floppy disks though :( Later. -- Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, philpem@dsl.pipex.com | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice, http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI ... Documentation is for people who can't read. From sgp at rearden.com Fri Feb 6 18:18:51 2004 From: sgp at rearden.com (Steve Perlman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:14 2005 Subject: Apple 40SC Tape Drive Message-ID: Al- How are you? I hope this is the right email address for you. I read a posting by you about the Apple 40SC drive. Do you have a working one? I have a few old tapes I wanted to recover, but I can't find a drive anywhere. Thanks. *SGP* From michaelp at meer.net Fri Feb 6 18:37:45 2004 From: michaelp at meer.net (Michael Plitkins) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:14 2005 Subject: atari transputer workstation Message-ID: <2153.209.157.156.241.1076114265.squirrel@webmail.meer.net> i just found the following message: ------------- Atari Transputer Workstation for sale Ram Meenakshisundaram cctech@classiccmp.org Tue Jul 1 08:54:30 2003 * Previous message: New here... Looking for PDP 11 / RSTS help * Next message: Atari Transputer Workstation for sale * Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] Hi, I know a source for a complete ATW800 in the UK area if anyone is interested. They are asking 250 UKP for it (Cambridge area). Let me know, condition is untested. I wish I could go for it, but since I am across the pond, it is just too costly :-( Cheers, Ram -------------- do you know if this computer is still available for sale? thanks. michael From rmeenaks at olf.com Sat Feb 7 07:10:50 2004 From: rmeenaks at olf.com (Ram Meenakshisundaram) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:14 2005 Subject: atari transputer workstation In-Reply-To: <2153.209.157.156.241.1076114265.squirrel@webmail.meer.net> Message-ID: <0HSP008VNTX194@mta9.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Hi Michael, This was actually been sold. And quite quickly as well... Cheers, Ram -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Michael Plitkins Sent: Friday, February 06, 2004 7:38 PM To: cctech@classiccmp.org Subject: atari transputer workstation i just found the following message: ------------- Atari Transputer Workstation for sale Ram Meenakshisundaram cctech@classiccmp.org Tue Jul 1 08:54:30 2003 * Previous message: New here... Looking for PDP 11 / RSTS help * Next message: Atari Transputer Workstation for sale * Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] Hi, I know a source for a complete ATW800 in the UK area if anyone is interested. They are asking 250 UKP for it (Cambridge area). Let me know, condition is untested. I wish I could go for it, but since I am across the pond, it is just too costly :-( Cheers, Ram -------------- do you know if this computer is still available for sale? thanks. michael From dancohoe at oxford.net Sat Feb 7 08:30:16 2004 From: dancohoe at oxford.net (Dan Cohoe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:14 2005 Subject: 600 Volt Outlet - was "General Discussion: On-TopicandOff-Topic Posts" In-Reply-To: <002301c3ed3b$799977a0$25696e44@SONYDIGITALED> Message-ID: <000c01c3ed86$e8afecf0$6501a8c0@DCOHOE> > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of ed sharpe > Sent: Saturday, February 07, 2004 12:30 AM > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: 600 Volt Outlet - was "General Discussion: > On-TopicandOff-Topic Posts" > > > Yes I know the wiring is rated at 600 but I have not seen > any semi modern > gear that required it.... > > ed! > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Friday, February 06, 2004 11:51 AM > Subject: Re: 600 Volt Outlet - was "General Discussion: On-Topic > andOff-Topic Posts" > > > > > Message: 21 > > > Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 01:16:24 -0700 > > > From: "ed sharpe" > > > Subject: Re: Greedy E-bay idiots! > > > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > > > > > Message-ID: > > > <002601c3ec89$82ca0c20$25696e44@SONYDIGITALED> > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > > > > > now what the hell is a 600 volt outlet? > > > > > > 110 220 440 maybe but 600 volt? hmm..... > > > > > > > > > > I use it all the time but in a non-standard > > application. I do AC power fault simulation on > > Telco equipment. Since the tranformers are standard > > off the shelf units, I thought I would ask an engineer > > friend. > > > > Industrial induction motors use 1000 volt feed from a > > delt transformer. It comes out 1000 line to line or > > 577 line to ground. 577 is effectively 600. Most > > of your wiring and other devices are rated at 600vac. > > > > Max > > > > > The standard medium power AC supply in industrial use in Canada is 575 volts (nominally 600). This provides a nominal 347v from a Y branch to ground. There is almost no 440 volt 3 phase service used here. For low voltage 3 phase service we generally have 208v 3ph which provides 120v single phase to ground from any single leg of the Y. The 575 volt service is generally called "600 volt supply" and I expect this is what the S/390 that started this discussion should be connected to. As someone else mentioned, this is quite "hot". Its a bad idea to attempt to plug a wet Hubbell plug into a live receptacle operating with the 600v service or for that matter to fool around with any tools in the vicinity of live parts. Once a flash-over starts, you've got some real fireworks. Recently I've been recovering some equipment from a deceased scrapper's farm and have had to carry various treasures around a large obstacle with a protruding shaft. I checked the plate and found its a 6000 hp electric motor..requiring 13,200 volt supply. I guess you'd need to be careful working on this one! Dan From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Feb 7 10:20:34 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:14 2005 Subject: SGI GDM-20D11 monitor troubleshooting Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040207112034.00810c20@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Does anyone have any experience working on these? This is the third one that I've picked up and they've all been bad. This one worked briefly but now it's doing the same as the other two; no video and both the red power light and yellow light are flashing. I talked to a friend of mine that's used these a lot and also says that they don't last long. FWIW I think this is made by Sony and is also used by SUN. Joe From allanh-cctalk at kallisti.com Sat Feb 7 10:23:10 2004 From: allanh-cctalk at kallisti.com (Allan Hessenflow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:14 2005 Subject: waaa! Ebay Polymorphic 88 In-Reply-To: <200402070750.i177oHOI070469@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <200402070750.i177oHOI070469@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20040207082310.B13420@kallisti.com> Ron Hudson wrote: > Do you still have the original documentation for the ROM monitor? > Any way you could scan it? > pretty please? I could scan mine, probably next week or the week after, if noone does that sooner. allan -- Allan N. Hessenflow allanh@kallisti.com From jpl15 at panix.com Sat Feb 7 10:32:44 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:14 2005 Subject: Aluminum Electrolytics In-Reply-To: <40249518.3080703@jcwren.com> References: <200402060258.i162wCOE058097@huey.classiccmp.org> <8A7F02B6-592E-11D8-AAFD-003065B0DA30@comcast.net> <200402070634.BAA00287@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <40249518.3080703@jcwren.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 7 Feb 2004, J.C. Wren wrote: > der Mouse wrote: > > > > >What was a 1.36 kilocoulomb bank used for, anyway? Railgun? > > > >/~\ The ASCII der Mouse > > > I'd guess a medium power laser. > > --jc > We were charging magnet structures for speaker design and development. The capacitors were 'dumped' thru a coil of 3/8" x 1/4" copper bar-stock, using a small GE distribution-type oil circuit breaker to close the loop. The magnet assemblies were placed inside this coil, then the switch closed. We could get 6 to 9 Tesla in the gaps this way. The power supply I built to charge the bank suffered a partial regulator failure (I was using 4 type 6080 tubes as pass elements) and began putting out high ripple. The caps were 800VDC 850V max rated, and the ripple exceeded this and gradually degraded a couple of them until they failed - spectacularly. Damn fine thing I wasn't actually close to the bank when it detonated - there was shrapnel and cpacitor-guts-fluff all over everywhere. Sorry for the topic drift - I tried to tie this in with classiccmp, but.... Cheerz John From charlesmorris at direcway.com Sat Feb 7 10:38:45 2004 From: charlesmorris at direcway.com (Charles) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:14 2005 Subject: FS: CDP-1802 User Manual Message-ID: <5s4a20t9vlkfrmttlnnc9aidjnm4le4qmm@4ax.com> I have an extra RCA #MPM-201B manual ("User Manual for the CDP1802 COSMAC Microprocessor") in very good condition, except "C.Morris" written on upper right corner of cover (belonged to my dad). If anyone's interested, make me an offer... thanks Charles From pcw at mesanet.com Sat Feb 7 11:11:46 2004 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:14 2005 Subject: SGI GDM-20D11 monitor troubleshooting In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040207112034.00810c20@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 7 Feb 2004, Joe R. wrote: > Does anyone have any experience working on these? This is the third one > that I've picked up and they've all been bad. This one worked briefly but > now it's doing the same as the other two; no video and both the red power > light and yellow light are flashing. I talked to a friend of mine that's > used these a lot and also says that they don't last long. FWIW I think this > is made by Sony and is also used by SUN. > > Joe > If thats the model I'm thinking of a very common failure is one of the electrolytics in the power supply. I think on the +15V maybe even C612 IICRC Thats a 2200 at 25V part... Peter Wallace From charlesmorris at direcway.com Sat Feb 7 11:40:27 2004 From: charlesmorris at direcway.com (Charles) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:14 2005 Subject: FS: PC stuff, cleaning out the basement Message-ID: <268a201gecef9chu78m8j3tu8dp5ekofc0@4ax.com> I have too much PC junk sitting around the basement. No drives, keyboards, or RAM. Working when shelved. AMD K6-300 CPU, fan, motherboard, power supply, case. $10 + postage. Intel 486-66 CPU, motherboard, video card, modem card, power supply, case. $5 + postage. I just hate to throw it in the dumpster. Can separate pieces to keep shipping cost down or if you don't want the cases. thanks Charles From djg at pdp8.net Sat Feb 7 11:44:18 2004 From: djg at pdp8.net (djg@pdp8.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:14 2005 Subject: Box o' Parts --- ASR 33.. (David V. Corbin) Message-ID: <200402071744.i17HiI002581@user-119apiu.biz.mindspring.com> >ps: Where else can you get a multi-function device that does NO Graphics, NO >Lower Case Characters and prints a fantastic 0.1389 PPM!!!!!!! > It does graphics :-) http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=teletype+art > Thanks to David Gesswein (pdp8.net) I also have a full set of prints. > Your welcome. If you haven't noticed these pictures may help in getting things back together. http://www.pdp8.net/asr33/asr33.shtml David Gesswein http://www.pdp8.net/ -- Run an old computer with blinkenlights Have any PDP-8 stuff you're willing to part with? From vcf at siconic.com Sat Feb 7 12:13:16 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:14 2005 Subject: Dec core mem on eBay In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 6 Feb 2004, John Lawson wrote: > I snagged this for $20.... just for a nice trophy. Suprising no one else > bid on it... > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3075270294&category=1479&sspagename=STRK%3AMEBWN%3AIT&rd=1 > > > Anyway - thought it would look cool unfolded and hanging on the Machine > Room wall.... Bah. Core memory as a wall hanging is SO late-1990s :) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Sat Feb 7 12:14:55 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:14 2005 Subject: [SPAM] - Re: Computer Collectors List - update - Bayesian Filter detected spam In-Reply-To: <001701c3ed0a$ecd5db40$0300a8c0@look.ca> Message-ID: On Fri, 6 Feb 2004, Brian Mahoney wrote: > I'm not really sure how to do that, I use Dreamweaver to set up the page. > I'll check the settings to see what comes up. I know that IE6 always says > 'done but with errors' and what the heck that means, I'll never know. Let me > work on it. You can click on the error icon and it'll show you what is wrong with the JavaScript in the page, which is usually what is triggering this error. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Sat Feb 7 12:20:09 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:14 2005 Subject: Dec core mem on eBay In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 6 Feb 2004, John Lawson wrote: > I have been active in this hobby for many years, have owned several very > rare systems and devices, and rescued and put back in service my share of > legacy computing machinery, software and docs and books. I give a lot of > volunteer time as well. I deplore folks who tear up computing history for > 'art' if there's a good chance that a system could be 'saved' otherwise. > There is a special place in Hell for one individual of my acquaintance, > who's "hobby" is collecting just the console panels from mainframes and > minis - the which Hobby he pursues with screwdriver and diagonal cutters. > He sees nothing wrong with that activity, BTW... ;{} Yep, I vouch for John here and back him up. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From technobug at comcast.net Sat Feb 7 13:49:35 2004 From: technobug at comcast.net (CRC) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:14 2005 Subject: cctalk Digest, Vol 6, Issue 16 In-Reply-To: <200402071800.i17I03OE076295@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <200402071800.i17I03OE076295@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: At Sat, 7 Feb 2004 09:11:46 -0800 (PST), "Peter C. Wallace" replied: > > On Sat, 7 Feb 2004, Joe R. wrote: > >> Does anyone have any experience working on these? This is the third >> one >> that I've picked up and they've all been bad. This one worked briefly >> but >> now it's doing the same as the other two; no video and both the red >> power >> light and yellow light are flashing. I talked to a friend of mine >> that's >> used these a lot and also says that they don't last long. FWIW I >> think this >> is made by Sony and is also used by SUN. >> >> Joe >> > > > If thats the model I'm thinking of a very common failure is one of the > electrolytics in the power supply. I think on the +15V maybe even C612 > IICRC > Thats a 2200 at 25V part... Does anyone have schematics for this beast? There seems to be a fair number showing up around my stomping grounds and all do the blinking lights bit. They are a nice tube when working and are easily converted from sync on green... Claude Ceccon From jwstephens at msm.umr.edu Sat Feb 7 13:57:49 2004 From: jwstephens at msm.umr.edu (jim) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:14 2005 Subject: [was] Dec core mem on eBay Message-ID: <40254339.CBFF9F73@msm.umr.edu> I recently snagged three 8K core planes for a Cincinatti Milacron Acramatic system, one processor board and a front panel. These are actually boards that were made by CM under license from Microdata corporation and are actually Microdata 800 or 1600 parts. This is due to Ebay and luck of course, but I was glad to add another licensee of Microdata to my collection. If anyone runs across anything from: Cincinatti Millacron Harris (like the semiconductor company, but really a Mini) Basic Four Reynolds and Reynolds ADP Dealer Services (Reality only, not their LEO Boxes) (LEO boxes were PDP 11/23's which someone else is welcome to) Ultimate (not microdata, but on my radar screen, these are Honeywell Level 6's with co processors) Tellogic (phone switches for hotels, etc) Bitek (phone accounting systems) Please let me know. These will all be 1970 thru 1985 or so vintage, and "minicomputer" in size. Jim Stephens From toresbe at ifi.uio.no Sat Feb 7 12:17:53 2004 From: toresbe at ifi.uio.no (Tore S Bekkedal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:14 2005 Subject: Wire Wrapper needed for PDP-7 Message-ID: <014501c3eda8$f4611e80$34b69fc3@ra3> Hello! I sent an email about a month or two back to Al Kossow saying that I was starting work on the PDP-7 again. With ungodly timing I proceeded to come down with the flu, travel abroad, and move. So here I am again. ;) I have come to the conclusion after some wire-tracing and so on, that this machine is smoking crack, and that very little is where it should be (except for core memory, everything seems right there). The processor has been modified ad nauseum, of course without documentation of any kind. Therefore, I need to take out all the modules, all the wires, and start afresh (might be a good idea, anyway - - this way I can clean all the contacts properly). Thus, I need a wire-wrapping tool. Does anyone here have one? TIA -tsb From toresbe at ifi.uio.no Sat Feb 7 12:17:35 2004 From: toresbe at ifi.uio.no (Tore S Bekkedal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:14 2005 Subject: KSR-33 Codebar Reset Bail Message-ID: <014401c3eda8$f4366500$34b69fc3@ra3> Allrighty, might as well run this question into a separate email for thread neatness (wishful thinking suggests I will get lots of answers for both posts ;)) The KSR-33 TTY prints properly if I reset all the codebars for the typehead. It also sends at least 6 bits correctly to the PDP-7 (I got the IO status panel working). What do I adjust? Please, explain with the fact that I don't know TTY lingo in mind. Thanks! -tsb From vcf at siconic.com Sat Feb 7 14:38:43 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:15 2005 Subject: Need QDOS or 86-DOS Message-ID: I'm helping an academic out with some research on early operating ystsems and he is in need of any version (the older the better) of either QDOS or 86-DOS from Seattle Computer Products on 8" floppy. Can anyone help out with this? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From dvcorbin at optonline.net Sat Feb 7 15:13:44 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:15 2005 Subject: Box o' Parts --- ASR 33.. (David V. Corbin) In-Reply-To: <200402071744.i17HiI002581@user-119apiu.biz.mindspring.com> Message-ID: David... What would really help if there were some good "exploded" mechanicals available. For example 3 of the keys have come completely loose on the keyboard. Figuring out where they hook back in and to which parts is not (at least to me) simple! David. -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of djg@pdp8.net Sent: Saturday, February 07, 2004 12:44 PM To: cctech@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Box o' Parts --- ASR 33.. (David V. Corbin) >ps: Where else can you get a multi-function device that does NO Graphics, NO >Lower Case Characters and prints a fantastic 0.1389 PPM!!!!!!! > It does graphics :-) http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=teletype+art > Thanks to David Gesswein (pdp8.net) I also have a full set of prints. > Your welcome. If you haven't noticed these pictures may help in getting things back together. http://www.pdp8.net/asr33/asr33.shtml David Gesswein http://www.pdp8.net/ -- Run an old computer with blinkenlights Have any PDP-8 stuff you're willing to part with? From donm at cts.com Sat Feb 7 15:15:34 2004 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:15 2005 Subject: Need QDOS or 86-DOS In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 7 Feb 2004, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > I'm helping an academic out with some research on early operating ystsems > and he is in need of any version (the older the better) of either QDOS or > 86-DOS from Seattle Computer Products on 8" floppy. > > Can anyone help out with this? I can provide 86-DOS on 8" SSSD in Cromemco format if that would serve. - don > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > > > > From vax3900 at yahoo.com Sat Feb 7 15:40:03 2004 From: vax3900 at yahoo.com (SHAUN RIPLEY) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:15 2005 Subject: Wire Wrapper needed for PDP-7 In-Reply-To: <014501c3eda8$f4611e80$34b69fc3@ra3> Message-ID: <20040207214003.61028.qmail@web60710.mail.yahoo.com> --- Tore S Bekkedal wrote: > Hello! > > I sent an email about a month or two back to Al > Kossow saying that I was starting work on the PDP-7 > again. With ungodly timing I proceeded to come down > with the flu, travel abroad, and move. So here I am > again. ;) > I have come to the conclusion after some > wire-tracing and so on, that this machine is smoking > crack, and that very little is where it should be > (except for core memory, everything seems right > there). The processor has been modified ad nauseum, > of course without documentation of any kind. > > Therefore, I need to take out all the modules, all > the wires, and start afresh (might be a good idea, > anyway - - this way I can clean all the contacts > properly). Thus, I need a wire-wrapping tool. Does > anyone here have one? I know a guy who has a set. He asked $100. I can send him email to contact you if you are interested. > > TIA > > -tsb > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html From willisj at atlantis.clogic-int.com Sat Feb 7 15:45:58 2004 From: willisj at atlantis.clogic-int.com (John Willis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:15 2005 Subject: Wire Wrapper needed for PDP-7 In-Reply-To: <014501c3eda8$f4611e80$34b69fc3@ra3> from Tore S Bekkedal at Feb "7, " 2004 "07:17:53" pm Message-ID: <200402072145.OAA14633@atlantis.clogic-int.com> I have a bunch of wire wrappers and the wires to go with them. -- John Willis UNIX Systems Administrator Associate Lockheed Martin IS&S CEO and Co-Founder Coherent Logic Development http://www.coherent-logic.com/ willisj@atlantis.clogic-int.com From allanh-cctalk at kallisti.com Sat Feb 7 10:19:30 2004 From: allanh-cctalk at kallisti.com (Allan Hessenflow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:15 2005 Subject: waaa! Ebay Polymorphic 88 In-Reply-To: <200402070750.i177oHOI070469@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <200402070750.i177oHOI070469@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20040207081930.A13420@kallisti.com> > Message: 3 > Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 10:43:24 -0800 > From: Ron Hudson > Subject: Re: waaa! Ebay Pollymorphic 88 Item number: 2784817061 > To: "Dwight K. Elvey" , "General Discussion: > On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > Message-ID: <5861EA42-58D4-11D8-A773-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed > > Dwight, > > Do you still have the original documentation for the ROM monitor? > Any way you could scan it? > pretty please? > > > I used to have a Polly 88, I was in the Navy on a destroyer, and > it was not a good environment for an s100 computer, When the ship > was at sea, it would rock back and forth a lot and my s100 would > suffer from "impact poisoning", Finally I traded my polly 88 for > an HP41C/Card Reader that was a bit more robust. > > Ron > ron.hudson@sbcglobal.net > > > On Friday, February 6, 2004, at 09:51 AM, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > > > > > Hi All > > If someone on the list gets this, I have quite a bit of software > > that I've collected for this machine. It looks like someone has > > changed the machine to be a CPM machine. It looks to have both > > the serial ( rs232/20mil ) and cassette interfaces. It seems to > > be missing the video board ( where the keyboard would connect to ). > > If someone gets this, I do have a spare video board that I might > > be talked into trading for something else, if someone wanted to > > bring it back to an original condition. I also have quite a > > bit of documentation for the Poly88. It does require a parallel > > keyboard to work with the video board ( As I recall all console > > I/O can be revectored at boot using a ROM at 400h. This could > > make the serial be the console but I don't think the debug > > monitor is revectored ). > > Although, the ROM's on the CPU starts at address 0000h, there > > is a control bit that one can shadow the ROM and allow the machine > > to exist in complete RAM. I can explain this to anyone that wants > > to do so. The software I have is all Poly88 cassette based software. > > I have an assembler, BASIC, many of the Poly demo programs and > > I also have a ROM based tiny BASIC as well. I have also written > > code to bootstrap a system from the serial port ( does require > > the system debug monitor to function ). > > Dwight > > > >> From: "Ron Hudson" > >> > >> And I am between jobs :^( > >> > >> > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 19:26:27 -0000 > From: "Witchy" > Subject: Merlin Tonto monitor update > To: "'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'" > > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Evenin' UK folks, afternoon US folks :) > > I've just stripped down the Tonto monitor that was screeching and I was > amazed and not a little alarmed to discover that the HT lead to the tube had > physically come away! > > How the hells can that happen when it's just been sitting on a shelf? After > appearing in the pix on my Tonto page it went back downstairs and sat on the > floor of the storage room for a few months before I found shelf space to put > it on! > > Weird. > > -- > Adrian/Witchy > Owner & Webmaster, Binary Dinosaurs > www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum > www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 21:14:40 +0100 (MET) > From: "Fred N. van Kempen" > Subject: *grunt* > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Message-ID: > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > > Sorry, just gotta let off steam. Got two new DEC RoamAbout > cards... bah! These are the UK version, so wont to the one > in my AP... > > *bah* > > --f > > > -- > Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist > Visit the VAXlab Project at http://VAXlab.pdp11.nl/ > Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ > Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Mountain View, CA, USA > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 21:29:38 +0100 (MET) > From: "Fred N. van Kempen" > Subject: Re: gcc cross compiler for PDP-11 > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > Message-ID: > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > > On Tue, 3 Feb 2004, Jochen Kunz wrote: > > > GCC 2.95 has serious problems corss compiling across the LP32 / LP64 > > boundary. I can say this out of my own experience as a NetBSD hacker. > Not relevant for the -11 backend :) > > --f > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 20:33:59 +0000 > From: meltie > Subject: Re: *grunt* > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > , "Fred N. van Kempen" > Message-ID: <200402062034.00301.lists@microvax.org> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > On Friday 06 February 2004 20:14, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > > Sorry, just gotta let off steam. Got two new DEC RoamAbout > > cards... bah! These are the UK version, so wont to the one > > in my AP... > > Won't they at least sync up to each other? What's so different about UK vs. > US versions? > > Want to dump them on someone in the UK? ;) > alex/melt > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 21:39:37 +0100 (MET) > From: "Fred N. van Kempen" > Subject: Re: *grunt* > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > Message-ID: > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > > On Fri, 6 Feb 2004, meltie wrote: > > > On Friday 06 February 2004 20:14, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > > > Sorry, just gotta let off steam. Got two new DEC RoamAbout > > > cards... bah! These are the UK version, so wont to the one > > > in my AP... > > > > Won't they at least sync up to each other? What's so different about UK vs. > > US versions? > Basically, the 2.4G cards using FH did not yet use the more or > less standardized channels, since they werent there yet. Instead, > different sets of usable channels were defined for each of the > various (mostly non-US) countries, making them largely incomatible > because of that :( > > What we *really* need is a firmware blaster, to re-blast a single > image into all of these critters- obviously, their hardware is > exactly the same, its just the software settings... > > > Want to dump them on someone in the UK? ;) > I might, eventually.. > > --f > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 9 > Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 16:25:46 -0500 > From: "Jerome H. Fine" > Subject: Re: [SPAM] - Re: Computer Collectors List - update - Bayesian > Filter detected spam > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > > Message-ID: <4024065A.AC936305@compsys.to> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > >Brian Mahoney wrote: > > > (I hope this attaches to my first post. My first attempt came up as a > > separate post. ) > > The standalone list is at this site : > > http://www.geocities.com/computercollectors/index.htm > > The same list is also available on a link from my personl page and is here : > > http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Horizon/9107/collectors.htm > > From: "Brian Mahoney" > > To: > > Sent: Friday, February 06, 2004 11:18 AM > > Subject: Computer Collectors List - update > > For several years I have maintained a list of computer collectors on my home > > page and for the last year I have had a specific site at another url. The > > list has over 40 names on it. Besides listing the collectors and their > > contact information (well, most of them anyway) there is an email address > > for the list itself and I send out emails to list whenever I get a query > > about donations or sales. > > > > Ok, so far so good. The problem is that I don't have email addresses for > > everyone on the list. Also, there may be members of this group who would > > like to be on the list. Therefore : > > > > 1. Anyone who wants to be on the list, please send me an email at : > > antiquecomputers@hotmail.com > > Make sure you have a good email addy in your response. Thanks! > > > > 2. Anyone on the list who has not provided me with an email by March 1st > > will be deleted from the list until an emaill address is provided. > > > > Please don't respond to this post, unless it is to comment on the lists, > > respond to : antiquecomputers@hotmail.com > > > > Lastly, I assume that nearly everyone here has some sort of site on the web. > > Mine has been up since 1995, relocated in 1997, and has spawned hundreds of > > emails from all over the world. The list of collectors provides me with a > > place to turn when I get leads about computers in Europe and the States. > > Since I don't buy computers any more, only taking donations, any offers of > > computers for sale or from locations outside of metro Toronto that are sent > > to my home page email adress, are sent to the members of the list. ALL > > requests to the antiquecomputers@hotmail.com email address are re-sent to > > members of the list. Hope this makes sense ! > > Jerome Fine replies: > > Your links can't be used by the version of Netscape that > I am using - V4.78. Do you think it might be possible to > make it backward compatible? > > Sincerely yours, > > Jerome Fine > -- > If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail > address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk > e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be > obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the > 'at' with the four digits of the current year. > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 10 > Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 21:41:02 -0000 > From: "Antonio Carlini" > Subject: RE: *grunt* > To: "'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'" > > Message-ID: <004a01c3ecf9$ec85cf30$5b01a8c0@athlon> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > > What we *really* need is a firmware blaster, to re-blast a > > single image into all of these critters- obviously, their > > hardware is exactly the same, its just the software settings... > > The new (802.11b) firmware was available from Cabletron > and/or DNPG. But the firmware you seem to have (the > pre-802.11b stuff, ie the original stuff) is harder > to get hold of (ctron/dnpg stopped making it available > on the web years ago). So you want to find some > way of preserving it before you go overwriting it. > (Always assuming there *is* some way of getting > it off again). > > Antonio > > > -- > > --------------- > Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 11 > Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 23:10:10 +0100 (MET) > From: "Fred N. van Kempen" > Subject: RE: *grunt* > To: arcarlini@iee.org, "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic > Posts" > Message-ID: > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > > On Fri, 6 Feb 2004, Antonio Carlini wrote: > > > The new (802.11b) firmware was available from Cabletron > > and/or DNPG. > Yes. > > > But the firmware you seem to have (the > > pre-802.11b stuff, ie the original stuff) is harder > > to get hold of (ctron/dnpg stopped making it available > > on the web years ago). > Yes, that was apparent. The real question is.. how/where do > we find it. > > > So you want to find some > > way of preserving it before you go overwriting it. > > (Always assuming there *is* some way of getting > > it off again). > The tools they used to localize the generic cards by blasting > a set of {firmware+settings} would be needed. I assume this > was done by DEC, not Ctron, so I'll just have to find someone > who knows about it and bother to no end... > > --f > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 12 > Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 15:51:33 -0500 > From: "BowlARoll" > Subject: 3M/Imation DC2000 tapes > To: > Message-ID: <000801c3ecf3$01813980$86d8d518@BOWLAROLL> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Hello: > > Are these tapes available and at what cost? You can reach me at 585-427-7250. Thanks. > > 20 Imation DC2000 40meg > > BillFrom cctalk-admin Fri Feb 6 13:03:59 2004 > Received: from c000.snv.cp.net (h019.c000.snv.cp.net [209.228.32.83]) > by huey.classiccmp.org (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with SMTP id i16J3wOD065850 > for ; Fri, 6 Feb 2004 13:03:58 -0600 (CST) > (envelope-from keith@saracom.com) > Received: (cpmta 638 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2004 10:51:48 -0800 > Received: from 209.228.32.74 (HELO mail.saracom.com.criticalpath.net) > by smtp.saracom.com (209.228.32.83) with SMTP; 6 Feb 2004 10:51:48 -0800 > X-Sent: 6 Feb 2004 18:51:48 GMT > Received: from [207.140.180.2] by mail.saracom.com with HTTP; > Fri, 06 Feb 2004 10:51:47 -0800 (PST) > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > Content-Disposition: inline > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > MIME-Version: 1.0 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > From: order@saracom.com > X-Sent-From: keith@saracom.com > Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 10:51:47 -0800 (PST) > X-Mailer: Web Mail 5.6.0-2_sol28 > Message-Id: <20040206105148.1551.h010.c000.wm@mail.saracom.com.criticalpath.net> > X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 17:00:28 -0600 > Subject: Re: 600 Volt Outlet - was "General Discussion: On-Topic and > Off-Topic Posts" > X-BeenThere: cctalk@classiccmp.org > X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 > Precedence: list > Reply-To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > List-Id: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > > List-Unsubscribe: , > > List-Archive: > List-Post: > List-Help: > List-Subscribe: , > > > > Message: 21 > > Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 01:16:24 -0700 > > From: "ed sharpe" > > Subject: Re: Greedy E-bay idiots! > > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > > > Message-ID: > > <002601c3ec89$82ca0c20$25696e44@SONYDIGITALED> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > > > now what the hell is a 600 volt outlet? > > > > 110 220 440 maybe but 600 volt? hmm..... > > > > > > I use it all the time but in a non-standard > application. I do AC power fault simulation on > Telco equipment. Since the tranformers are standard > off the shelf units, I thought I would ask an engineer > friend. > > Industrial induction motors use 1000 volt feed from a > delt transformer. It comes out 1000 line to line or > 577 line to ground. 577 is effectively 600. Most > of your wiring and other devices are rated at 600vac. > > Max > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 13 > Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 00:19:18 +0100 (MET) > From: "Fred N. van Kempen" > Subject: *blush (RE: *grunt*) > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > Message-ID: > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > > Hrrm. > > You know... sometimes it *really* helps to ask a woman whether > you still look OK or not..... > > I basically realized, that *although* the RoamAbout card *did* > see the access point, it did not get any traffic through. That > is, hmm, odd. > > ... until it daunted upon me. "AHEM. Is the segment on which > the AP resides, actually connected to the backbone????" > > So.. I ran upstairs, and sure enough... the BNC connector from > that segment was unplugged from the DEMPR. Waaaaah! > > Why? Well, I had a weird problem here when I was in the U.S., > and I had my jump-in sys admin disconnect all networks that were > not needed for core operations.... :( > > So there. It works now. At least the UK and DE/NL versions of > the RoamAbout cards *do* talk together. They both hate the U.S. > card, though.... > > Cheers, > Fred > -- > Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist > Visit the VAXlab Project at http://VAXlab.pdp11.nl/ > Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ > Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Mountain View, CA, USA > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 14 > Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 18:39:18 -0500 (EST) > From: John Lawson > Subject: Dec core mem on eBay > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Message-ID: > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > > > > I snagged this for $20.... just for a nice trophy. Suprising no one else > bid on it... > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3075270294&category=1479&sspagename=STRK%3AMEBWN%3AIT&rd=1 > > > Anyway - thought it would look cool unfolded and hanging on the Machine > Room wall.... > > > > Cheers > > John > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 15 > Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 18:42:16 -0500 > From: "Brian Mahoney" > Subject: Re: [SPAM] - Re: Computer Collectors List - update - Bayesian > Filter detected spam > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > Message-ID: <001701c3ed0a$ecd5db40$0300a8c0@look.ca> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jerome H. Fine" > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > Sent: Friday, February 06, 2004 4:25 PM > Subject: Re: [SPAM] - Re: Computer Collectors List - update - Bayesian > Filter detected spam > > > > >Brian Mahoney wrote: > I'm not really sure how to do that, I use Dreamweaver to set up the page. > I'll check the settings to see what comes up. I know that IE6 always says > 'done but with errors' and what the heck that means, I'll never know. Let me > work on it. > B.M. > > > Jerome Fine replies: > > > > Your links can't be used by the version of Netscape that > > I am using - V4.78. Do you think it might be possible to > > make it backward compatible? > > > > Sincerely yours, > > > > Jerome Fine > > -- > > If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail > > address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk > > e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be > > obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the > > 'at' with the four digits of the current year. > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 16 > Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 20:24:22 -0500 > From: "David V. Corbin" > Subject: RE: Dec core mem on eBay > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > John, hopefully you are joking about using this card as "art". There are > many of us who could and would put it do good use in an active machine. > > David. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of John Lawson > Sent: Friday, February 06, 2004 6:39 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Dec core mem on eBay > > > > > I snagged this for $20.... just for a nice trophy. Suprising no one else > bid on it... > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3075270294&category=1479& > sspagename=STRK%3AMEBWN%3AIT&rd=1 > > > Anyway - thought it would look cool unfolded and hanging on the Machine > Room wall.... > > > > Cheers > > John > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 17 > Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 19:42:08 -0600 > From: "Jay West" > Subject: Re: HP2000/Access - (benchmarks) > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > Message-ID: <003301c3ed1b$99953be0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > Mike wrote.... > > Here's a quick chain test for doing 255 (+-) chains with timing for my > > SIMH configuration as described (about 23 sec.) I would hope that real > hardware > > would out perform it. If not I'll have to think about what could be wrong > with > > the simulator and come up with another test. Let me know what you get, > Jay, next > > time you have her up. > > Chain test results on dual 2100(32Kw) 7906 drive > > 28 2 > 28 45 > > this should mean about 43 seconds > > Notes: > 1) This test really doesn't test much other than the disk drive data > transfer rate, cpu excercising is negligable. > 2) An emulator should vastly outperform a real disk drive, especially > assuming "short cuts" are taken and internally the software isn't going > through the same steps the real hardware is. > > Jay West > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 18 > Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 19:47:00 -0600 > From: "Jay West" > Subject: stuff noticed at surplus in st. louis > To: > Message-ID: <003901c3ed1c$4856a150$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > A couple of PowerMac 5260/100 machines, condition unknown (forgive me if > this is too recent for the list, I know nothing about them as to age). > > They recently got in a HUGE shipment of old tubes.. all different sizes... > some pretty odd looking ones too. Anyone want me to look for a particular > one? > > Jay West > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 19 > Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 21:03:51 -0500 (EST) > From: John Lawson > Subject: RE: Dec core mem on eBay > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > Message-ID: > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > > > > On Fri, 6 Feb 2004, David V. Corbin wrote: > > > John, hopefully you are joking about using this card as "art". There are > > many of us who could and would put it do good use in an active machine. > > Yo Dave: Keep yer shirt on. > > If you look at the pix on the ebay page, you will notice that this is only > half the system, and I contacted the seller (who I know) - it's all they > have. Its just the core planes and the switching logic. Its a 32KW > stack, BTW... > > I have been active in this hobby for many years, have owned several very > rare systems and devices, and rescued and put back in service my share of > legacy computing machinery, software and docs and books. I give a lot of > volunteer time as well. I deplore folks who tear up computing history for > 'art' if there's a good chance that a system could be 'saved' otherwise. > There is a special place in Hell for one individual of my acquaintance, > who's "hobby" is collecting just the console panels from mainframes and > minis - the which Hobby he pursues with screwdriver and diagonal cutters. > He sees nothing wrong with that activity, BTW... ;{} > > In this case - I'm not *destroying* the board, and anyway it's condition > is unknown - could already be electrical trash - I won't know until I get > it. But nonetheless, I intend to frame it, open, and hang it on the wall > in my machine room, Dave. I think it's beautiful, and I think it's enough > of a piece of computing history that various people might like to have a > look at real core memory. Our IT guy at work has been doing computers for > a living for quite a while, and he had no real idea what the word 'core' > actually meant.... > > Now, if it came to my attention that there was a specific, rare or > one-of-a-kind machine that could be restored to full operation but for the > board that I have - you can bet it would be in FedEx the next day to that > site, and I'd find another. > > Anyway, DEC core stacks are not all that rare - two of the machines from > my last big collection had core memory. I want this one to be a display > piece in my personal collection... and so it shall be. > > > Cheerz > > John > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 20 > Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 21:39:51 -0500 > From: "David V. Corbin" > Subject: RE: Dec core mem on eBay > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > John, > > Glad to hear it, sorry if I jumped on you, but it had been a rough day, and > I recently lost a good shot at an acquisition to a person known for "kut and > scrap". > > My apologies. > > David. > > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of John Lawson > Sent: Friday, February 06, 2004 9:04 PM > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: RE: Dec core mem on eBay > > > > > On Fri, 6 Feb 2004, David V. Corbin wrote: > > > John, hopefully you are joking about using this card as "art". There are > > many of us who could and would put it do good use in an active machine. > > Yo Dave: Keep yer shirt on. > > If you look at the pix on the ebay page, you will notice that this is only > half the system, and I contacted the seller (who I know) - it's all they > have. Its just the core planes and the switching logic. Its a 32KW > stack, BTW... > > I have been active in this hobby for many years, have owned several very > rare systems and devices, and rescued and put back in service my share of > legacy computing machinery, software and docs and books. I give a lot of > volunteer time as well. I deplore folks who tear up computing history for > 'art' if there's a good chance that a system could be 'saved' otherwise. > There is a special place in Hell for one individual of my acquaintance, > who's "hobby" is collecting just the console panels from mainframes and > minis - the which Hobby he pursues with screwdriver and diagonal cutters. > He sees nothing wrong with that activity, BTW... ;{} > > In this case - I'm not *destroying* the board, and anyway it's condition > is unknown - could already be electrical trash - I won't know until I get > it. But nonetheless, I intend to frame it, open, and hang it on the wall > in my machine room, Dave. I think it's beautiful, and I think it's enough > of a piece of computing history that various people might like to have a > look at real core memory. Our IT guy at work has been doing computers for > a living for quite a while, and he had no real idea what the word 'core' > actually meant.... > > Now, if it came to my attention that there was a specific, rare or > one-of-a-kind machine that could be restored to full operation but for the > board that I have - you can bet it would be in FedEx the next day to that > site, and I'd find another. > > Anyway, DEC core stacks are not all that rare - two of the machines from > my last big collection had core memory. I want this one to be a display > piece in my personal collection... and so it shall be. > > > Cheerz > > John > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 21 > Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 18:51:18 -0800 (PST) > From: "O. Sharp" > Subject: RE: Dec core mem on eBay > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > Message-ID: > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > > > Quoth John Lawson: > > > If you look at the pix on the ebay page, you will notice that this is only > > half the system, and I contacted the seller (who I know) - it's all they > > have. Its just the core planes and the switching logic. Its a 32KW > > stack, BTW... > > 32Kw x 18, and with ICs around the core planes... was this for a PDP-15, > or perhaps a PDP-9? > > > [...] nonetheless, I intend to frame it, open, and hang it on the wall > > in my machine room, Dave. I think it's beautiful, and I think it's enough > > of a piece of computing history that various people might like to have a > > look at real core memory. Our IT guy at work has been doing computers for > > a living for quite a while, and he had no real idea what the word 'core' > > actually meant.... > > Core memories are indeed beautiful. That is, until you have to find and > repair a bad connection on one... ...well, okay, they're _still_ > beautiful, but in an infinitely more frustrating sort of way. :) > > I think it's amusing that there are computer people who have never seen or > worked with core memory. O'course, I also have coworkers who have never > owned a 33-1/3 record, and more recently coworkers who think the idea of a > telephone with a cord attached is antiquated. Damn. I _am_ getting old, > aren't I? :) > > -O.- > > ...but then, I've never used a punch-card or a drum memory, so maybe I > _am_ young. :) :) > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 22 > Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 21:54:53 -0500 (EST) > From: John Lawson > Subject: RE: Dec core mem on eBay > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > Message-ID: > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > > > > On Fri, 6 Feb 2004, David V. Corbin wrote: > > > John, > > > > Glad to hear it, sorry if I jumped on you, but it had been a rough day, and > > I recently lost a good shot at an acquisition to a person known for "kut and > > scrap". > > > Well I know. There's an original ad for the Bendix G-15 (I had one > once...) on eBay that I stopped bidding on after it got above $20... but > the high bidder's 'me' page says he's a preservationist, so we'll see. > > And I've missed many things over the years... "Oh, we thought that was > junk." > > For example - I work in the same building as a manufacturing company > with dozens of metal-working machines. I'm good friends with the foreman, > who has been an NC and CNC master machinist for many years. I was telling > him about my collection - and he said, "Hey - you don't want an old > Flexowriter or two...? they're up on the shelf in my old shop in Palo > Alto." > > Well you can imagine my response. BUT: > > Long story short... they were tossed in the dumpster in September of > last year to make room for an upgraded phone system.... > > > YYYAAHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!! ;{ GRRRRR... > > > So it's part and parcel of our Hobby... just because *I* see a rack of > PDP11 stuff in a certain light doesn't necessarily map onto the > conciousness of the poor schmoe who has to get it out of the warehouse and > onto the loading dock and into the roll-off before the scrap company shows > up to haul all that old shit away... > > > And thanks for your well-meant concern! Without us, there'd be no > LGP-20s, Bendix G-15s, Apple Is.... left in the world. > > > Cheers > > John > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 23 > Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 20:59:49 -0600 > From: "Jay West" > Subject: Atari available > To: > Message-ID: <004001c3ed26$7342e590$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Local surplus dealer has an Atari 800XL available, he held it for me cause > he knows I collect computers. However, I have no interest in it. He just > wants someone to make him an offer. No monitor or power supply, condition > unknown. He probably doesn't want much for it. Email me if you want his > contact info. > > Jay West > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 24 > Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 22:04:36 -0500 > From: "David V. Corbin" > Subject: RE: Dec core mem on eBay > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > -0.- > > Speaking of vinyl...Do you have any 78s or even better 16s? (I have about > 40 from 1955 and earlier!) > > If you never dropped a box on unmarked, non-sequenced cards, you havent > lived!!! > > =============================== > > John. > > I know a person (local here on LI) who has 3x ASR-33, 1x ASR-43, 1x > Freiden Flexowriter (exact model unknown at this point). > > All believed to be in working order. > > The problem is that will only dig them out of storage for someone who will > take the entire lot. I have no interest in the Flexowriter (but would never > want to see one destroyed), and can really only use one of the ASR-33's. If > you would be interested in helping to split up the lot (he wants a fairly > high price, but if the quality is good....), please contact me off list. > > ========================== > > David... > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 25 > Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 22:09:53 -0500 > From: Curt Vendel > Subject: Re: Atari available > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > > Message-ID: <40245701.9080408@atarimuseum.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed > > Thanks Jay, I have plenty of them, I'm going to pass. > > > Curt > > > > Jay West wrote: > > >Local surplus dealer has an Atari 800XL available, he held it for me cause > >he knows I collect computers. However, I have no interest in it. He just > >wants someone to make him an offer. No monitor or power supply, condition > >unknown. He probably doesn't want much for it. Email me if you want his > >contact info. > > > >Jay West > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Curt Vendel & Karl Morris > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > The Atari Museum > http://www.atarimuseum.com > > The Atari Explorer > http://www.atari-explorer.com > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 26 > Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 21:10:44 -0600 > From: "Jay West" > Subject: more on ibm paradise card > To: > Message-ID: <006201c3ed27$f9cf5d90$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Ok, took a closer look at the paradise card in my IBM 5150. > > It's actually two full length boards, stacked together with standoffs. The > "main" board has on the back bracket (from top to bottom), a two position > slide switch, a DE9, an RCA jack, and another DE9. Has a sticker saying > "DM104338", I'm guessing a serial number maybe. Etched on the board is "Assy > 15100". > > On the second board in the stack, it says "Paradise Systems, Inc." and > "Multidisplay card". Silkscreened on the board is "Assy 15200", and "CADAC > M01". Also has a sticker, "DM504338", and here's the kicker... hanging off > this full length "daughter card" is a ribbon cable that goes to a 2nd > bracket with a DB25F connector, I would guess parallel port. > > >From googling on the net, best I can decipher (VERY little info on it), it > may be a combo MDA/CGA card. > > Can anyone fill in any more info? > > Jay West > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 27 > Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 21:12:43 -0600 > From: "Jay West" > Subject: Re: Dec core mem on eBay > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > Message-ID: <006a01c3ed28$4103d1f0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > > If you never dropped a box on unmarked, non-sequenced cards, you havent > > lived!!! > If they are unmarked, there is no problem ;) > > I'm a young 39, and I HAVE programmed on punched cards, both on an IBM 24 I > think it was, submitting programs to VM/CMS/HASP, and also on an HP2000C & > HP2000/Access :) > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 28 > Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 23:08:36 -0500 > From: "David V. Corbin" > Subject: RE: Dec core mem on eBay > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > >>> If you never dropped a box on unmarked, non-sequenced cards, you havent > >>> lived!!! > > >>If they are unmarked, there is no problem ;) > > I was not referring to un-punched cards, but rather to cards that contained > ordered data (such as program source without line numbers) which had not > been marked with a pen/pencil/crayon diagonally across the top of the deck. > > Without the mark, sorting out the cards was virtually impossible. At least > with a diagonal mark each card would have a short line on the top edge. > Cards from the front of the deck would have the line on the left, cards from > the back on the right. This gave a quick method of getting the cards back > into order. A card that was out of sequence would show rather quickly when > the deck was re-assembled. > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 29 > Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 06:00:50 +0100 > From: "Nico de Jong" > Subject: Re: 3M/Imation DC2000 tapes > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > Message-ID: <002101c3ed37$5bab19f0$2201a8c0@finans> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > > >Are these tapes available and at what cost? You can reach me at > 585-427-7250. Thanks. > >20 Imation DC2000 40meg > >Bill > > I have at least 10 DC2120 tapes from Mitsubishi available, all new AFAIR > > We can discuss the price. Dont forget the Postage > > Nico > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 30 > Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 22:29:03 -0700 > From: CRC > Subject: Aluminum Electrolytics (was: M7891-DC 2a fuse on +12? fixed!) > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Message-ID: <8A7F02B6-592E-11D8-AAFD-003065B0DA30@comcast.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed > > On On Thu, 5 Feb 2004 15:47:34 -0800 (PST), Vintage Computer Festival > wrote: > > > One second? I've always been told to do this over the course of at > > least > > a couple hours in 5V increments. > > > > If I can be doing this in a much quicker time then I'd really like to > > know > > about it. > > > [...] > And on Thu, 5 Feb 2004 19:04:52 -0500 (EST), ohn Lawson > also wrote: > > > > Then duck! IMHO opinion, and over 40+ years experience, to reform > > funky caps takes anywhere from a few minutes to over an hour, > > depending on > > many variables. If you think you've formed an electrolytic in one > > second, > > it was either tiny or good-to-begin-with. > > > > But the thing most folks forget is to somehow monitor the *current* > > being drawn during the Process of Reformation. > > > > Here endeth the Lesson. > > > > > > > >> > >> One second? I've always been told to do this over the course of at > >> least > >> a couple hours in 5V increments. > >> > > > > > > Again - it depends on the voltage/capacity of the filters involved, > > and > > just how "bad" gthey are. One simply cannot place an arbitrary > > voltage/time delta on all power supplies. > > > > The Ammeter (or it's analog) is here your friend. > > > Also at Thu, 5 Feb 2004 16:12:53 -0800, "vrs" commented: > >>>> > > >>>> To safely re-energize a piece of equipment that is long in the tooth > >>>> and has been sitting around for some time, you have to bring the > >>>> voltage up relatively slowly to allow the electrolytic caps to > >>>> re-polarize. Everyone who is collecting should own a good-sized > > Variac. > >>>> You power the box up by bringing the voltage from naught to the > >>>> operational level with the Variac over a period of about a second or > >> > >> Then duck! IMHO opinion, and over 40+ years experience, to reform > >> funky caps takes anywhere from a few minutes to over an hour, > >> depending on > >> many variables. If you think you've formed an electrolytic in one > >> second, > >> it was either tiny or good-to-begin-with. > > > > When I read this, I took it to mean the Variac was a preferred method > > for > > turning on equipment *after* the caps had been reformed, as a matter of > > routine. (Otherwise it made no sense to me, based on what I know of > > reformation.) That may not be a good idea, but I couldn't dismiss it > > out of > > hand. > > > > I reference , and > excellent overview of aluminum capacitors... > > The controlling parameter in reforming a capacitor is the amount of > heat generated. Generate too much and you blow things up. We have to > consider two cases: the capacitor is in circuit, or out of circuit. > > In the latter case, the recommended method of reforming is by applying > the forming voltage through a limiting resistor and then letting the > capacitor form at voltage over a period of time with the limiting > resistor in circuit. As commented above, the current should be > monitored, but the critical term is the final leakage current. If it is > out of spec, there is nothing you can do... A capacitor manufacturer > used to be in town and they had to monitor old stock for mil spec > reasons. Their criteria for reforming old stock was a case temp rise of > no more than 5 degrees C and the leakage current had to be in spec in > less than 10 minutes. > > An old electrolytic that takes a long time to reform has probably lost > electrolyte and should be considered suspect (its ESR is probably > miserable and capacitance below spec). > > The case of in-circuit caps: With a lot of equipment, if you put it in > a brown-out condition, you can fry the silicon. Older switchers are > notorious for burning up when operated below their minimum voltage for > any length of time. In any case, when lighting equipment, the primary > concern is the front end caps. If the leakage current is substantial, > you will blow the fuse or take out the rectifier (valves don't have > this problem). By using a Variac to bring up the voltage over several > seconds, you mitigate the surge and allow initial reforming to take > place. If things go, you might as well replace the caps. > > Depending on the power supply, caps down stream will either see the > operating voltage and have to "live" or, in the case where the power > supply current limits, will pull down the power supply until formed, > if . In the case of switchers, they have a tendency to *turn on* if > substantially over-rated (hey, remember we have been taught that it's > only current that counts ;<)). > > So all is not cut and dried. You have to know what you are working > with... Hey, and I match your 40+ and raise you a few... > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 31 > Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 22:30:19 -0700 > From: "ed sharpe" > Subject: Re: 600 Volt Outlet - was "General Discussion: On-Topic > andOff-Topic Posts" > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > Message-ID: <002301c3ed3b$799977a0$25696e44@SONYDIGITALED> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Yes I know the wiring is rated at 600 but I have not seen any semi modern > gear that required it.... > > ed! > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Friday, February 06, 2004 11:51 AM > Subject: Re: 600 Volt Outlet - was "General Discussion: On-Topic > andOff-Topic Posts" > > > > > Message: 21 > > > Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 01:16:24 -0700 > > > From: "ed sharpe" > > > Subject: Re: Greedy E-bay idiots! > > > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > > > > > Message-ID: > > > <002601c3ec89$82ca0c20$25696e44@SONYDIGITALED> > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > > > > > now what the hell is a 600 volt outlet? > > > > > > 110 220 440 maybe but 600 volt? hmm..... > > > > > > > > > > I use it all the time but in a non-standard > > application. I do AC power fault simulation on > > Telco equipment. Since the tranformers are standard > > off the shelf units, I thought I would ask an engineer > > friend. > > > > Industrial induction motors use 1000 volt feed from a > > delt transformer. It comes out 1000 line to line or > > 577 line to ground. 577 is effectively 600. Most > > of your wiring and other devices are rated at 600vac. > > > > Max > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 32 > Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 21:45:30 -0800 > From: Al Kossow > Subject: Re: Dec core mem on eBay > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Message-ID: <200402070545.i175jUMe011877@spies.com> > > > > 32Kw x 18, and with ICs around the core planes... was this for a PDP-15, > or perhaps a PDP-9? > > -- > > byte parity > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 33 > Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 00:56:50 -0500 (EST) > From: John Lawson > Subject: Re: Aluminum Electrolytics (was: M7891-DC 2a fuse on +12? > fixed!) > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > Message-ID: > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > > > > On Fri, 6 Feb 2004, CRC wrote: > > > > > So all is not cut and dried. You have to know what you are working > > with... Hey, and I match your 40+ and raise you a few... > > > > > > [finds reading glasses, Geritol, don't need teeth... lessee here] > > > > Waaaallll.... no duh! BUT: I was preaching to the congregation, not the > choir. > > You and I probably can deliver chapter and verse on the care and feeding > of fundamental components, their history and evolution, physics, > chemistry, mechanics and electronics of them... no doubt. > > But a lot of folks on the list (most of the folks on the List) are not EEs > or MSEs or PhDEs... and we have a very mixed approach to actual > 'electronics' - from those who have long careers behind them in design and > implementation of electronic circuits and devices - to those to whom > electricity is a mystery, an unknown field. > > So when it is stated in simple language that one can form/reform > questionable electrolytics in 'one second' with a Variac (or whatever) - > this is exposing people to danger and property to damage, IMHO. > > That's the point I was trying to make - that there is no 'general case' > when bringing up gear with long inop times - and that one cannot prescribe > a fixed time span to reform the caps in a (linear) power supply by the > Variac method, unless one is aware of the various other points you bring > up. > > > And of course you're spot-on in reference to SMPSUs - 'brown' input > voltages will often kill 'em dead. > > And speaking of War Stories: Ever been in the same room with an > exploding 1.7F 800VDC storage bank? > > It's LOUD...... > > > ;} > > > > Cheers > > John > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 34 > Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 22:15:30 -0800 (PST) > From: SHAUN RIPLEY > Subject: Re: stuff noticed at surplus in st. louis > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > Message-ID: <20040207061530.91584.qmail@web60704.mail.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Why not grab them all and put them on Ebay. There are > other groups of people who collect old tubes. I > personally have a tube radio... It is junk in their > eyes though (it is an AA5). I know that people are > looking for 300B tubes, and some other big tubes. Do > them a favor, save those tubes. > > vax3900 > > --- Jay West wrote: > > A couple of PowerMac 5260/100 machines, condition > > unknown (forgive me if > > this is too recent for the list, I know nothing > > about them as to age). > > > > They recently got in a HUGE shipment of old tubes.. > > all different sizes... > > some pretty odd looking ones too. Anyone want me to > > look for a particular > > one? > > > > Jay West > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. > http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 35 > Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 01:15:20 -0500 (EST) > From: der Mouse > Subject: Re: Aluminum Electrolytics (was: M7891-DC 2a fuse on +12? > fixed!) > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > Message-ID: <200402070634.BAA00287@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > > And speaking of War Stories: Ever been in the same room with an > > exploding 1.7F 800VDC storage bank? > > > It's LOUD...... > > Hardly surprising, given how much energy is lurking therein. If my > arithmetic is right, that's about .3kWh. Release it all at once - or > even any significant fraction thereof - and yes, it's gonna go bang! > > What was a 1.36 kilocoulomb bank used for, anyway? Railgun? > > /~\ The ASCII der Mouse > \ / Ribbon Campaign > X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca > / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 36 > Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 02:34:48 -0500 > From: "J.C. Wren" > Subject: Re: Aluminum Electrolytics > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > > Message-ID: <40249518.3080703@jcwren.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > der Mouse wrote: > > >>And speaking of War Stories: Ever been in the same room with an > >>exploding 1.7F 800VDC storage bank? > >> > >> > > > > > > > >>It's LOUD...... > >> > >> > > > >Hardly surprising, given how much energy is lurking therein. If my > >arithmetic is right, that's about .3kWh. Release it all at once - or > >even any significant fraction thereof - and yes, it's gonna go bang! > > > >What was a 1.36 kilocoulomb bank used for, anyway? Railgun? > > > >/~\ The ASCII der Mouse > >\ / Ribbon Campaign > > X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca > >/ \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B > > > > > I'd guess a medium power laser. > > --jc > > End of cctalk Digest, Vol 6, Issue 15 > ************************************* -- Allan N. Hessenflow allanh@kallisti.com From fergdc at uleth.ca Sat Feb 7 01:58:54 2004 From: fergdc at uleth.ca (Green Dragon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:15 2005 Subject: ARexx Manual Message-ID: Greetings Curt Nelson Do you have William Hawes book on ARexx? ARexx User's Reference Manual or equivalent in some Commodore manual. What about Amiga TEX and Metafont? If so, how can I get them? Cheers, Don (Green Dragon) From joel.fox at sympatico.ca Sat Feb 7 11:09:27 2004 From: joel.fox at sympatico.ca (Joel D. Fox) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:15 2005 Subject: Pacific 4 memory installation guides Message-ID: <000f01c3ed9d$25cc4be0$4008e440@foxj> Hi Bob. This is a shot in the dark:: Google came up with your message offering copies of the Pacific 4 Memory installation guide. (cf. http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctech/2003-April/013105.html) Is there a chance you might still have them around? Thanks for any help you can offer. Joel Fox Kingston, ON From Martin.Kukac at seznam.cz Sat Feb 7 06:34:53 2004 From: Martin.Kukac at seznam.cz (=?us-ascii?Q?Martin=20Kukac?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:15 2005 Subject: Old Nixdorf printer Message-ID: <42774.136835-18227-2035237632-1076157293@seznam.cz> Hi everybody. Today I got "classic" printer made by Nixdorf company. It's old matrix printer, made before 1990 (because of Made in W. Germany sign and since 1990 there is no W. Germany). It seems to be serial printer (it has about 20m long cable, i think no paralel interface can operate such long distances), but it has non-standard DIN 6-pin connector (only 5pins present) market as SAS IN on the printer. I have no idea about type of the printer (there is only NIXDORF COMPUTERS label and then Nixdorf STAD ND45 on small label at the bottom). I'd like to connect it to standard PC. Does anyone have pin-out of this connector or does anyone know something about this printer ? thanks, Martin Kukac, Czech Republic ____________________________________________________________ ADSL za korunu od Contactelu - nejp??jemn?j?? ADSL na trhu doru??me rychle a? k V?m! http://ad2.seznam.cz/redir.cgi?instance=70017%26url=http://www.contactel.cz/adsl From doc at mdrconsult.com Sat Feb 7 16:31:05 2004 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:15 2005 Subject: waaa! Ebay Polymorphic 88 In-Reply-To: <20040207081930.A13420@kallisti.com> References: <200402070750.i177oHOI070469@huey.classiccmp.org> <20040207081930.A13420@kallisti.com> Message-ID: <51694C52-59BD-11D8-AF3E-000A95A6B97A@mdrconsult.com> On Feb 7, 2004, at 10:19 AM, Allan Hessenflow wrote: I was horribly tempted to quote your entire message and ask you to trim your quotes at the end. Instead I'll just suggest that you repost in a manner which might get read by more than zero list members. Thank you. Doc From jpero at sympatico.ca Sat Feb 7 11:38:59 2004 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:15 2005 Subject: waaa! Ebay Polymorphic 88 In-Reply-To: <20040207081930.A13420@kallisti.com> References: <200402070750.i177oHOI070469@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20040207223713.KLTG1799.tomts36-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Whoa! Somebody didn't trim that message that was LONG about untrimmed 10 messages worth in one email, heed that. Many of listers don't have resources or on timed connections (billed by minutes). Please have a care and trim the excess. Thanks & cheers, Wizard From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Feb 7 16:41:47 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:15 2005 Subject: Cool Finds! 160 PPM scanner Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040207174147.00811100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I found this last week. It failed self-test but I took it apart today and found a jammed stepper motor and fixed it. Wahoo! Joe From jwest at classiccmp.org Sat Feb 7 17:15:55 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:15 2005 Subject: list "Archival Options" References: <200402020208.i1228NV0018617@spies.com> Message-ID: <002901c3edd0$56d9a330$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Al; Been through all the admin screens, and I can't find the option you are referring to. Any thoughts? Jay ----- Original Message ----- From: "Al Kossow" To: Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2004 8:08 PM Subject: list "Archival Options" > > Jay, would you please change > "Set date in archive to when the mail is claimed to have been sent, or to the time we resend it?" > to "When resent" on the "Archival Options" admin page. > > This will put the archive in temporal order when viewed "by date" > > > From cfandt at netsync.net Sat Feb 7 17:17:38 2004 From: cfandt at netsync.net (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:15 2005 Subject: WTB: Motorola MVMEbus module manuals Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.2.20040207181350.02d66ec0@pop3.norton.antivirus> Here's once again my once-in-a-great while request for some manuals for which I've been hunting. I'm in search of several manuals for some Motorola MVME boards I have. Please reply if you have any available for me to purchase. MVME 236-1,2,3 (Publication number MVME 236-1 Dx ) MVME 133-1 ( " " MVME 133-1 Dx ) Support Docs: SIMVME133-1 MVME 134 ( " " MVME 134 Dx ) Support Docs: SIMVME134 and finally the Support Documentation (schematics, etc.) for an MVME147S which is publication number SIMVME147S. Thanks, Chris NNNN Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.antiquewireless.org/ From ohh at drizzle.com Sat Feb 7 17:29:46 2004 From: ohh at drizzle.com (O. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:15 2005 Subject: Box o' Parts --- ASR 33.. (David V. Corbin) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: David V. Corbin wrote thus: > What would really help if there were some good "exploded" mechanicals > available. For example 3 of the keys have come completely loose on the > keyboard. Figuring out where they hook back in and to which parts is not (at > least to me) simple! Teletype put out some very good maintenance manuals for the ASR-33, which had (among other things) very extensive exploded views. _Very_ extensive. Probably more extensive than you want. :) I haven't found a set online, unfortunately, but if you keep an eye on ePay they seem to turn up every couple of weeks (sometimes the actual manuals, more often a copy which is scanned and then burned to CD). -O.- From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Sat Feb 7 17:47:52 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:15 2005 Subject: Perq 2T1 display fault Message-ID: <1076196906.7064.303.camel@weka.localdomain> Got a Perq 2T1 with the KME 1514 portrait monitor - the display on the front of the unit gets as far as 999 on power-up so it's looking reasonably healthy. Only problem is an unstable display; it seems to be missing out every 4th or so scanline, plus there's some horizontal instability (I can see what appear to be characters on the display, but they aren't readable at all) Anything prone to giving up in these monitors? From looking on the web it appears they have a few custom parts in them :( (of course it's *possible* the fault is in the system, not the monitor I suppose) Oh, and if anyone's dishing out Perq wisdom there's also a Perq 1 with a display fault too - on that one the image is centered on the screen, but squashed into about 80% of the normal width, and maybe 10% of normal height. It's also very non-rectangular in nature. cheers Jules From dvcorbin at optonline.net Sat Feb 7 17:49:19 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:15 2005 Subject: Wire Wrapper needed for PDP-7 In-Reply-To: <200402072145.OAA14633@atlantis.clogic-int.com> Message-ID: John, Are you referring to: 1) manual (non-powered wire-wrap tools) 2) electric wire-wriap guns 3) CNC semi automated wire-wrap systems 4) retired job shoppers proficient in wire wrapping (especially high density). If item 3 or 4, pleas let me know...(I already have #1 and #2) -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of John Willis Sent: Saturday, February 07, 2004 4:46 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Wire Wrapper needed for PDP-7 I have a bunch of wire wrappers and the wires to go with them. -- John Willis UNIX Systems Administrator Associate Lockheed Martin IS&S CEO and Co-Founder Coherent Logic Development http://www.coherent-logic.com/ willisj@atlantis.clogic-int.com From allanh-cctalk at kallisti.com Sat Feb 7 17:49:27 2004 From: allanh-cctalk at kallisti.com (Allan Hessenflow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:15 2005 Subject: waaa! Ebay Polymorphic 88 In-Reply-To: <200402072344.i17NiEOI079310@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <200402072344.i17NiEOI079310@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20040207154927.A17866@kallisti.com> Doc Shipley wrote: > I was horribly tempted to quote your entire message and ask you to > trim your quotes at the end. > > Instead I'll just suggest that you repost in a manner which might get > read by more than zero list members. Yes, sorry. I did in fact repost and that showed up in an earlier digest than my messed up post. When I saw the first one I was hoping something had filtered out the long one, but apparently it was only delayed. Anyway, I went to fix the subject before I had written the reply (since I read the digest, and my email client doesn't break them up, so the default subject would be worthless), and somehow slipped and sent it instead of getting back to edit the message text. I probably shouldn't try to write anything in the morning before coffee. allan -- Allan N. Hessenflow allanh@kallisti.com From esharpe at uswest.net Sat Feb 7 18:50:05 2004 From: esharpe at uswest.net (Ed Sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:15 2005 Subject: Cool Finds! 160 PPM scanner References: <3.0.6.32.20040207174147.00811100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <004401c3eddd$7e4f7e00$4201d1ac@aoldsl.net> we are green with envy as we try to make our little hp unit scan 200 page books....... congrats! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe R." To: Sent: Saturday, February 07, 2004 3:41 PM Subject: Cool Finds! 160 PPM scanner > Office/scanner/kv-ss855.asp+panasonic++scanner+kv-ss855&hl=en&lr=lang_en&ie= > UTF-8> > > I found this last week. It failed self-test but I took it apart today and > found a jammed stepper motor and fixed it. Wahoo! > > Joe > > From esharpe at uswest.net Sat Feb 7 18:51:33 2004 From: esharpe at uswest.net (Ed Sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:15 2005 Subject: Wire Wrapper needed for PDP-7 References: <20040207214003.61028.qmail@web60710.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <004f01c3eddd$b2eae640$4201d1ac@aoldsl.net> might try to get one of the power wire wrappers..... makes life go faster.... ed sharpe ----- Original Message ----- From: "SHAUN RIPLEY" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Saturday, February 07, 2004 2:40 PM Subject: Re: Wire Wrapper needed for PDP-7 > > --- Tore S Bekkedal wrote: > > Hello! > > > > I sent an email about a month or two back to Al > > Kossow saying that I was starting work on the PDP-7 > > again. With ungodly timing I proceeded to come down > > with the flu, travel abroad, and move. So here I am > > again. ;) > > I have come to the conclusion after some > > wire-tracing and so on, that this machine is smoking > > crack, and that very little is where it should be > > (except for core memory, everything seems right > > there). The processor has been modified ad nauseum, > > of course without documentation of any kind. > > > > Therefore, I need to take out all the modules, all > > the wires, and start afresh (might be a good idea, > > anyway - - this way I can clean all the contacts > > properly). Thus, I need a wire-wrapping tool. Does > > anyone here have one? > I know a guy who has a set. He asked $100. I can send > him email to contact you if you are interested. > > > > > TIA > > > > -tsb > > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. > http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html > > From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Sat Feb 7 18:06:27 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:15 2005 Subject: FF: IBM S/36 5362 system (Milton Keynes, UK) Message-ID: <1076198021.7065.323.camel@weka.localdomain> Hi all, Bletchley Park's computer museum has a working IBM S/36 5362 machine going spare - it's been on display (unpowered) in the museum for a while but we need the space for another machine. It could go back into storage, but it's not the sort of thing that's particularly interesting as an exhibit even when it's running, so even if the space were available for display still, it'd probably be way down on the list of desirable things to have in the main room for the public to see. Hence the asking here if anyone wants it. It was running last time anyone powered it up. There's currently a Memorex terminal with it, plus I'm told there are manuals and disks for it (I haven't seen those personally to see exactly how many!) Shout if interested... cheers Jules From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Sat Feb 7 18:21:05 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:15 2005 Subject: FF: Philips Wordprocessor (UK) Message-ID: <1076198900.7065.339.camel@weka.localdomain> Another oddity at the computer museum at Bletchley which I unfortunately didn't get much chance to look over (if there is interest I'll get better details later in the week). It's a Philips machine with twin 8" floppy drives - I'm told a dedicated wordprocessor, but I'm wondering if it isn't a full-blown CP/M system. Looks to be circa 1980 anyway. As with the IBM, we need the space in the museum, so it's into storage for it, or ask and see if anyone wants to give it a home. Comes with a terminal (I need to check and see if it's a full-blown Philips terminal or just a custom console for the main system box), Philips printer, and a whole pile of floppy disks. No idea of working state on this one; powering up without a boot disk gave a screen full of z's, so there's some basic functionality working at least... Anyone interested in giving it a home? cheers Jules From doc at mdrconsult.com Sat Feb 7 18:13:12 2004 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:15 2005 Subject: waaa! Ebay Polymorphic 88 In-Reply-To: <20040207154927.A17866@kallisti.com> References: <200402072344.i17NiEOI079310@huey.classiccmp.org> <20040207154927.A17866@kallisti.com> Message-ID: <9557C8F6-59CB-11D8-AF3E-000A95A6B97A@mdrconsult.com> On Feb 7, 2004, at 5:49 PM, Allan Hessenflow wrote: > I read the digest, and my email client doesn't break them up, so the > default subject would be worthless), and somehow slipped and sent it > instead of getting back to edit the message text. I probably shouldn't > try to write anything in the morning before coffee. Ahh, yes. I write stuff, but rarely post it till I've had at least my first cup and proofed my writing. When I do post early, I usually regret it. Doc From aek at spies.com Sat Feb 7 18:58:03 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:15 2005 Subject: Wire Wrapper needed for PDP-7 Message-ID: <200402080058.i180w3D0030289@spies.com> > Therefore, I need to take out all the modules, all the wires, and start afresh -- This is a REALLY REALLY REALLY bad idea. It is hightly doubtful that someone completely rewired the backplane of this system. If you start ripping out wires, there is 0% chance this system will ever run again. From aek at spies.com Sat Feb 7 19:04:06 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:15 2005 Subject: list "Archival Options" Message-ID: <200402080104.i181463Y001816@spies.com> Been through all the admin screens, and I can't find the option you are referring to. Any thoughts? -- from the web interface to mailman we're using, there are two columns of things on the mailing list admin page Configuration Categories Other Administrave Activities General Options Membership Management Privacy Options Regular-member (non-digest) Options Digest-member Options Bounce Options Archival Options <--- this one There are four button options on that page http://spies.com/mailman/admin/bitsavers/archive for the bitsavers mailing list The time setting one is the third of the list of four From rdd at rddavis.org Sat Feb 7 19:34:56 2004 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:15 2005 Subject: Perq 2T1 display fault In-Reply-To: <1076196906.7064.303.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <1076196906.7064.303.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <20040208012233.GD21247@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Jules Richardson, from writings of Sat, Feb 07, 2004 at 11:35:06PM +0000: > Got a Perq 2T1 with the KME 1514 portrait monitor - the display on the > front of the unit gets as far as 999 on power-up so it's looking > reasonably healthy. Only problem is an unstable display; it seems to be > missing out every 4th or so scanline, plus there's some horizontal > instability (I can see what appear to be characters on the display, but > they aren't readable at all) One of my PERQ T2's had a similar problem years ago, but that was with the 19" landscape Moniterm monitor. To solve the problem, I simply replaced the PLL chip in the monitor. > Anything prone to giving up in these monitors? From looking on the web > it appears they have a few custom parts in them :( (of course it's > *possible* the fault is in the system, not the monitor I suppose) Did you try reseating the boards or just letting the maching run for hours and hours? Is the problem intermittent? > Oh, and if anyone's dishing out Perq wisdom there's also a Perq 1 with a > display fault too - on that one the image is centered on the screen, but > squashed into about 80% of the normal width, and maybe 10% of normal > height. It's also very non-rectangular in nature. Never experienced that problem with my PERQ-1 systems... the only major thing that ever went wrong with them were head crashes. :-( For those not familiar with these machines, they had either SA4004 or SA4008 14", 12MB and 24MB, hard drives... not easy to find replacements for, alas. -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Sat Feb 7 19:27:16 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:15 2005 Subject: Perq 2T1 display fault In-Reply-To: <1076196906.7064.303.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Jules Richardson > Sent: 07 February 2004 23:35 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Perq 2T1 display fault > > > Got a Perq 2T1 with the KME 1514 portrait monitor - the > display on the front of the unit gets as far as 999 on > > Oh, and if anyone's dishing out Perq wisdom there's also a > Perq 1 with a display fault too - on that one the image is Tony's yer man for PERQ stuff, though I can guess the PERQ 1 is suffering bad components in the horizontal and vertical deflection circuits... Cheers -- Adrian/Witchy Owner & Webmaster, Binary Dinosaurs www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From jwest at classiccmp.org Sat Feb 7 19:35:05 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:15 2005 Subject: list "Archival Options" References: <200402080104.i181463Y001816@spies.com> Message-ID: <06d401c3ede3$c7dc2b80$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> I'm running 2.1.2, that spot you mention is exactly where I looked, and that option isn't present in 2.1.2. Guess I need to find the time to upgrade. What version are you using? Jay West ----- Original Message ----- From: "Al Kossow" To: Sent: Saturday, February 07, 2004 7:04 PM Subject: Re: list "Archival Options" > > > > Been through all the admin screens, and I can't find the option you are > referring to. Any thoughts? > > -- > > from the web interface to mailman we're using, there are two columns of > things on the mailing list admin page > > Configuration Categories Other Administrave Activities > > General Options > Membership Management > Privacy Options > Regular-member (non-digest) Options > Digest-member Options > Bounce Options > Archival Options <--- this one > > > There are four button options on that page > http://spies.com/mailman/admin/bitsavers/archive for the bitsavers mailing list > > The time setting one is the third of the list of four > > From aek at spies.com Sat Feb 7 20:39:43 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:16 2005 Subject: list "Archival Options" Message-ID: <200402080239.i182dhmh001843@spies.com> > What verison are you using? 2.0.13 From aek at spies.com Sat Feb 7 20:47:39 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:16 2005 Subject: list "Archival Options" Message-ID: <200402080247.i182ldAe008203@spies.com> In Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py there should be something like def GetConfigInfo(self): return [ "List traffic archival policies.", ('archive', mm_cfg.Toggle, ('No', 'Yes'), 0, 'Archive messages?'), ('archive_private', mm_cfg.Radio, ('public', 'private'), 0, 'Is archive file source for public or private archival?'), ('clobber_date', mm_cfg.Radio, ('When sent', 'When resent'), 0, 'Set date in archive to when the mail is claimed to have been ' 'sent, or to the time we resend it?'), From aek at spies.com Sat Feb 7 21:03:40 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:16 2005 Subject: list "Archival Options" Message-ID: <200402080303.i1833emW018946@spies.com> foo.. the option went away in later versions was just looking at the latest code on sourceforge guess whoever came up with this never considered wanting to read a mailing list offline through the web archive. it worked fine until you upgraded a while back, then all the postings started getting scrambled in the archive based on what the poster's time zone is. -- on well.. now I know what happened From aek at spies.com Sat Feb 7 21:07:52 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:16 2005 Subject: sigh Message-ID: <200402080307.i1837qxq021083@spies.com> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3583851295 should I tell the other bidder's it's on line at www.bitsavers.org/pdf/harvard/MarkI_operMan_1946.pdf ? curiously, the copy I scanned had a number (1703) on the title page while his copy doesn't From dvcorbin at optonline.net Sat Feb 7 21:12:30 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:16 2005 Subject: sigh - High Priced Manuals... In-Reply-To: <200402080307.i1837qxq021083@spies.com> Message-ID: Al, Sure is getting a bit pricey! But there are advantages to having an original rather than an on-line copy, as I am sure you would agree. If not, we would all be running just emulators for our classic hardware rather than having the actual machines with all of the maintenance that implies. As many of you know I am in the process of getting a PDP-8 / ASR-33 project off the ground. I have been discussing the "value" of various items with different people, and the one thing we can all agree on is "How much are you willing to pay, or are you willing to keep looking?" is the only accurate answer. So I guess even "smart" people will bid on items that have content which is available for free...Or would you disagree, and say only fools would? David. -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Al Kossow Sent: Saturday, February 07, 2004 10:08 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: sigh http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3583851295 should I tell the other bidder's it's on line at www.bitsavers.org/pdf/harvard/MarkI_operMan_1946.pdf ? curiously, the copy I scanned had a number (1703) on the title page while his copy doesn't From fmc at reanimators.org Sat Feb 7 21:24:16 2004 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:16 2005 Subject: list "Archival Options" In-Reply-To: <200402080247.i182ldAe008203@spies.com> (Al Kossow's message of "Sat, 7 Feb 2004 18:47:39 -0800") References: <200402080247.i182ldAe008203@spies.com> Message-ID: <200402080324.i183OGGA010673@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Al Kossow wrote: > ('clobber_date', mm_cfg.Radio, ('When sent', 'When resent'), 0, > 'Set date in archive to when the mail is claimed to have been ' > 'sent, or to the time we resend it?'), This option appears to have gone missing somewhere between 2.0 and 2.1. Mailman/versions.py has some code (ZapOldVars) to remove it from lists. -Frank McConnell From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Sat Feb 7 21:47:46 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:16 2005 Subject: Wire Wrapper needed for PDP-7 In-Reply-To: <200402080058.i180w3D0030289@spies.com> References: <200402080058.i180w3D0030289@spies.com> Message-ID: <20040208034746.GB10412@bos7.spole.gov> On Sat, Feb 07, 2004 at 04:58:03PM -0800, Al Kossow wrote: In response to: > Therefore, I need to take out all the modules, all the wires, and > start afresh > > This is a REALLY REALLY REALLY bad idea. > > It is hightly doubtful that someone completely rewired the backplane > of this system. > > If you start ripping out wires, there is 0% chance this system will > ever run again. I have to agree. I did this a long time ago to a damaged PDP-8/L (broken wires, broken enclosure, missing front-plex and broken front panel...) At the time, I had two and had _no_ prints. I still have the net-list I made from dismantling it (but it's of no value now that I have real PDP-8/L prints). I wish I hadn't done it now and I can only plead youth and ignorance (I was 16 when I got the pair of -8/Ls). The point of this is to say that completely stripping the backplane is probably a one-way activity. Documenting and removing the cards and cleaning the slots (with a sliver of manila folder soaked in isopropanol) on the other hand, is a good idea. That is entirely reversible. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 08-Feb-2004 03:32 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -32.2 F (-35.7 C) Windchill -72.3 F (-58 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 12 kts Grid 063 Barometer 691.3 mb (10202. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From brianmahoney at look.ca Sat Feb 7 21:59:25 2004 From: brianmahoney at look.ca (Brian Mahoney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:16 2005 Subject: sigh - High Priced Manuals... References: Message-ID: <000701c3edf8$035cedc0$0300a8c0@look.ca> I guess when speaking of manuals there is kind of a cachet that they have, similar to old automobile manuals. Prop the book up beside the computer or study it over a cup of coffee and the world seems a bit more comfortable I am not a PDP person but I do remember lusting after an Apple II repair manual that my local library had in perfect condition. Even though it hadn't been booked out in years, they wouldn't sell it to me. Luckily I came across the same manual, well a SAMS repair manual but you get the point, a short time later at a Value Village for 2 bucks. As for overpriced manuals, I would say that what is overpriced now will be REALLY overpriced in a while. The alternative would be for each of us to copy or scan all of the manuals we have and develop some sort of central library or website with PDF downloads of everything. The general feeling that I have is that there is a vast amount of hardware out there but only a small pile of manuals. When I look at my basement computer room which is about half-full of hardware and half-full of manuals and documents, I consider the latter far more valuable than the former. For instance, in CPM how do I get WUMP to load on my Kaypro? Stuff like that! ----- Original Message ----- From: "David V. Corbin" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Saturday, February 07, 2004 10:12 PM Subject: RE: sigh - High Priced Manuals... > Al, > > Sure is getting a bit pricey! > > But there are advantages to having an original rather than an on-line copy, > as I am sure you would agree. If not, we would all be running just emulators > for our classic hardware rather than having the actual machines with all of > the maintenance that implies. > > As many of you know I am in the process of getting a PDP-8 / ASR-33 project > off the ground. I have been discussing the "value" of various items with > different people, and the one thing we can all agree on is "How much are you > willing to pay, or are you willing to keep looking?" is the only accurate > answer. > > So I guess even "smart" people will bid on items that have content which is > available for free...Or would you disagree, and say only fools would? > > David. > > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Al Kossow > Sent: Saturday, February 07, 2004 10:08 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: sigh > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3583851295 > > should I tell the other bidder's it's on line at > www.bitsavers.org/pdf/harvard/MarkI_operMan_1946.pdf ? > > curiously, the copy I scanned had a number (1703) on the title page > while his copy doesn't > > From teoz at neo.rr.com Sat Feb 7 22:02:39 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:16 2005 Subject: sigh - High Priced Manuals... References: Message-ID: <004e01c3edf8$651bd120$0500fea9@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "David V. Corbin" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Saturday, February 07, 2004 10:12 PM Subject: RE: sigh - High Priced Manuals... > Al, > > Sure is getting a bit pricey! > > But there are advantages to having an original rather than an on-line copy, > as I am sure you would agree. If not, we would all be running just emulators > for our classic hardware rather than having the actual machines with all of > the maintenance that implies. > > As many of you know I am in the process of getting a PDP-8 / ASR-33 project > off the ground. I have been discussing the "value" of various items with > different people, and the one thing we can all agree on is "How much are you > willing to pay, or are you willing to keep looking?" is the only accurate > answer. > > So I guess even "smart" people will bid on items that have content which is > available for free...Or would you disagree, and say only fools would? > > David. If you need a manual to work on your equipment its stupid to pay $1400 for one when you can print it out for under $5 If you're just collecting it for reason other then pure functionality then it all depends how deep your pockets are and how much you like it. If an exact copy of the Mona Lisa was for sale at $5,000 and the original was for sale at $50,000,000 there will always be a few people fighting to pay for the original. Bill Gates would spend a smaller percentage of his net worth buying a real Rolex then a poor person buying a fake Rolex, its all relative. All I can say is that if you cant make your rent or feed your kids and you keep buying new additions to your collection you are an addict and need help. From yakowenk at yahoo.com Sat Feb 7 22:07:06 2004 From: yakowenk at yahoo.com (Bill Yakowenko) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:16 2005 Subject: Apple 2e's (mostly) in Marion IL Message-ID: <20040208040706.79402.qmail@web60708.mail.yahoo.com> Got the following mail from kbqunfiqll@mariqonuniqt2.com; reply to him directly (but first correct his address: change 'com' to 'org' and remove all letter 'q's). +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | I have 6 working lle computers w/monitors & 1 disk drive each. I also have | | 3 printers, 13 extra monitors, 8 extra disk drives, and an assortment of | | disks, cables, and a few other componets. I am located in Marion, Il. Are | | you interested? | +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ Cheers, Bill. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html From dvcorbin at optonline.net Sat Feb 7 22:05:34 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:16 2005 Subject: sigh - High Priced Manuals... In-Reply-To: <004e01c3edf8$651bd120$0500fea9@game> Message-ID: >> All I can say is that if you cant make your rent or feed your kids and you >> keep buying new additions to your collection you are an addict and need >> help. Complete agreement, with all you points, but especially that one. It is definitely necessary to set a budget (which depends greatly on personal circumstances) as to what is appropriate. My point was somewhat different in this case. If the manual is available for free as a PDF, then there is NO need to pay for a copy, even if the price is reasonably low and the purpose is for functional access to the information. If you are going to pay for it, then that puts you in the category of a collector, and are getting the manual for the sake of having the manual. IMHO, this is the same if you pay $20 for the manual or $2500. From jpl15 at panix.com Sat Feb 7 22:26:06 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:16 2005 Subject: Some more eBay: Altairs, Mark 8 kits Message-ID: Found in browsing after looking at the Harvard book which will probably top $2K - The Altair - looks like a nice system, had ADM3, disk drives... http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2784770538&category=1247 Someone has 10 Mark 8 kits as described in the Jun 1974 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2786233229&category=4193 $300 each plus 10 s/h Orginal Altair disk boot loader cassette from May 1977 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2786248750&category=4193 $9.99 starting And for our YuKay breth'ren who think all the deals are on this side of the water: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2786206985&category=1247 and be very sure to cruise to this person's "List of Future eBay Items" for an amazing list of some very rare Stuff coming up! Okay that's enough - I just missed a bunch of full-size bus-grant jumper cards for $11.61 because I forgot the auction was closing... arrrgghhh! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2784625876&category=4193&sspagename=STRK%3AMEBDW%3AIT&rd=1 O well.... Cheers John From teoz at neo.rr.com Sat Feb 7 22:31:01 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:16 2005 Subject: sigh - High Priced Manuals... References: Message-ID: <006d01c3edfc$5b832a10$0500fea9@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "David V. Corbin" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Saturday, February 07, 2004 11:05 PM Subject: RE: sigh - High Priced Manuals... > >> All I can say is that if you cant make your rent or feed your kids and > you > >> keep buying new additions to your collection you are an addict and need > >> help. > > Complete agreement, with all you points, but especially that one. It is > definitely necessary to set a budget (which depends greatly on personal > circumstances) as to what is appropriate. > > My point was somewhat different in this case. If the manual is available for > free as a PDF, then there is NO need to pay for a copy, even if the price is > reasonably low and the purpose is for functional access to the information. > > If you are going to pay for it, then that puts you in the category of a > collector, and are getting the manual for the sake of having the manual. > IMHO, this is the same if you pay $20 for the manual or $2500. > > Even though I have many machines that are setup to display pdf's I prefer printed manuals since I can drag them around when working on the machine in question, or just take it out back in the shade for a casual read on a nice sunny day. Whether you print the manual out of the laser or inkjet printer, take the original and photocopy it, or send the pdf to an unethical printhouse in NJ for a bound recreation it still costs you some money. A book is usable as is, and comes in handy during a power outage. From yakowenk at yahoo.com Sat Feb 7 22:38:57 2004 From: yakowenk at yahoo.com (Bill Yakowenko) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:16 2005 Subject: Computer Collectors List - update Message-ID: <20040208043857.32389.qmail@web60701.mail.yahoo.com> Anyone interested in that may also be interested in a similar effort of mine, the "Classic Computer Rescue Squad", located at this URL: http://www.cs.unc.edu/~yakowenk/classiccmp/ccrs_list.html Since I'll probably be doing an update soon, this may be a good time to glance at your existing entries, and let me know if they need any changes. Cheers, Bill. On Fri, 6 Feb 2004, "Brian Mahoney" wrote: > > (I hope this attaches to my first post. My first attempt came up as a > separate post. ) > > The standalone list is at this site : > > http://www.geocities.com/computercollectors/index.htm > > The same list is also available on a link from my personl page and is here : > > http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Horizon/9107/collectors.htm > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brian Mahoney" > To: > Sent: Friday, February 06, 2004 11:18 AM > Subject: Computer Collectors List - update > > For several years I have maintained a list of computer collectors ... etc etc __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html From jpl15 at panix.com Sat Feb 7 22:49:01 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:16 2005 Subject: IBM 519 Repro Punch eBay big bux Message-ID: Looks in nice shape, has some manuals - $5,500 buy-it-now http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3076351299&category=294 go ahead - I'm going to sit this one out - no worries... Cheers John From dvcorbin at optonline.net Sat Feb 7 22:51:15 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:16 2005 Subject: IBM 519 Repro Punch eBay big bux In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Might as well get the set.... http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=294&item=3076352013 -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of John Lawson Sent: Saturday, February 07, 2004 11:49 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: IBM 519 Repro Punch eBay big bux Looks in nice shape, has some manuals - $5,500 buy-it-now http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3076351299&category=294 go ahead - I'm going to sit this one out - no worries... Cheers John From dvcorbin at optonline.net Sat Feb 7 23:01:49 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:16 2005 Subject: Computer Collectors List - update In-Reply-To: <20040208043857.32389.qmail@web60701.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: MailEnable: Message Delivery Failure. The following recipient(s) could not be reached: [SMTP:yakowxenk@csx.unxc.edu]: The message could not be delivered because the domain name (csx.unxc.edu) does not appear to be registered. Message contents follow: Received: from vmw2kpgeneral ([24.186.41.128]) by wns.trademarkhosting.com with MailEnable ESMTP; Sat, 07 Feb 2004 21:46:20 -0700 Bill, meesage bounced when I used the e-mail on the site so.... I would very much like to join your list. My primary interest is DEC equipment especially PDP-8 and Teletype. I am also willing to act as a salvage point for other items that would be destined for scrap. Please let me know if you need any additional information David V. Corbin Dynamic Concepts Development Corp Sayville, New York 631-244-8487 david@dynamicconcepts.us ps: Please do something with the colors on the web page. It is totally un-readable under many circumstances. In order to even see the pages I had to copy the text into an editor and view it there. This would not encourage people to use the list. David -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Bill Yakowenko Sent: Saturday, February 07, 2004 11:39 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Computer Collectors List - update Anyone interested in that may also be interested in a similar effort of mine, the "Classic Computer Rescue Squad", located at this URL: http://www.cs.unc.edu/~yakowenk/classiccmp/ccrs_list.html Since I'll probably be doing an update soon, this may be a good time to glance at your existing entries, and let me know if they need any changes. Cheers, Bill. On Fri, 6 Feb 2004, "Brian Mahoney" wrote: > > (I hope this attaches to my first post. My first attempt came up as a > separate post. ) > > The standalone list is at this site : > > http://www.geocities.com/computercollectors/index.htm > > The same list is also available on a link from my personl page and is here : > > http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Horizon/9107/collectors.htm > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brian Mahoney" > To: > Sent: Friday, February 06, 2004 11:18 AM > Subject: Computer Collectors List - update > > For several years I have maintained a list of computer collectors ... etc etc __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html From jpl15 at panix.com Sat Feb 7 23:17:05 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:16 2005 Subject: Computer Collectors List - update In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I'll send this privately to Bill also - but my info is 5 years out of date, and I notice just in a cursory glance that several other listing are no longer valid... might be time for a pre-spring pruning... But I like it better than the other list (wherein I do not appear) mainly because I'm a curmusdgeon and utterly refuse to smear myself with pop-up garbage from Geocities, Tripod, or other "free" webhosting dirtbags. Sorry - didn't mean to vent. Must... reduce...... caffein.... On Sun, 8 Feb 2004, David V. Corbin wrote: > [snippage] > > > ps: Please do something with the colors on the web page. It is totally > un-readable under many circumstances. In order to even see the pages I had > to copy the text into an editor and view it there. This would not encourage > people to use the list. > > hmmmm - to my browser (IE6) it's a nice light blue text on black.... > David > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Bill Yakowenko > Sent: Saturday, February 07, 2004 11:39 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Computer Collectors List - update > > > Anyone interested in that may also be interested in a similar effort > of mine, the "Classic Computer Rescue Squad", located at this URL: > > http://www.cs.unc.edu/~yakowenk/classiccmp/ccrs_list.html > Cheerz John From rdd at rddavis.org Sat Feb 7 23:30:04 2004 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:16 2005 Subject: [SPAM] - Re: Computer Collectors List - update - Bayesian Filter detected spam In-Reply-To: <001701c3ed0a$ecd5db40$0300a8c0@look.ca> References: <4024065A.AC936305@compsys.to> <001701c3ed0a$ecd5db40$0300a8c0@look.ca> Message-ID: <20040208051748.GE21247@rhiannon.rddavis.org> > > >Brian Mahoney wrote: > I'm not really sure how to do that, I use Dreamweaver to set up the page. A good example of useless software. That explains why so many web pages are created which older browsers can't use, for no good reason. I can't understand why anyone who isn't mentally retarded would even want to use software to design web pages instead of relying upon their own brains. It's much easier to just write all of the HTML by hand. That's what I do, unless I have a need for dynamically generated pages, in which case I write the Perl or javascript by hand that generates the dynamically generated code. It really isn't that difficult to learn HTML and some very basic javascript, since there isn't much at all to learn for the basics. What takes the time is deciding on the overall site and page design itself, not the technical details. Writing the HTML doesn't doesn't take long at all (actually, it's probably faster than fooling with that annoying software used to create web pages) and it will give you much more flexibility. Try it, you'll like it. -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From dvcorbin at optonline.net Sat Feb 7 23:21:03 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:16 2005 Subject: Computer Collectors List - update In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >>> hmmmm - to my browser (IE6) it's a nice light blue text on black.... Try setting your monitor to 2048x1536 resolution and viewing the page! The list blue text is so thin (due to the monochromatic nature) that the letters are nearly invisible. IMHO web pages should all defer to using the default colors and sizes of the viewer computer for textual information. btw: My company does do Web based application design as one of our key product lines.... From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Sat Feb 7 22:45:23 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:16 2005 Subject: Some more eBay: Altairs, Mark 8 kits In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040208044523.GB12832@bos7.spole.gov> On Sat, Feb 07, 2004 at 11:26:06PM -0500, John Lawson wrote: > Okay that's enough - I just missed a bunch of full-size bus-grant jumper > cards for $11.61 because I forgot the auction was closing... arrrgghhh! > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2784625876&category=4193&sspagename=STRK%3AMEBDW%3AIT&rd=1 That's a great price for them. IIRC, Software Results' cost for our version (no plastic handles, but the PCB had a cutout near the top) was $18/each, over 10 years ago, quantity 100. I just wish our engineer had listened to me and made our cards jumperable for Unibus/Qbus... I doubt it would have cost even $1 more each, and we would have been able to service our Qbus customers as well as our Unibus customers (we shipped a Unibus grant card with every Unibus COMBOARD, but nothing with Qbus COMBOARDs, not even DEC grant cards). -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 08-Feb-2004 04:32 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -31.4 F (-35.3 C) Windchill -67.8 F (-55.5 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 10.8 kts Grid 065 Barometer 691 mb (10214. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From dvcorbin at optonline.net Sat Feb 7 23:25:29 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:16 2005 Subject: [OT] HTML usage... In-Reply-To: <20040208051748.GE21247@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: R.D. While your points are well taken (it is easy to design BAD pages using tools such as DreamWeaver), hand writing HTML is not practical for most professional web development (which I have been doing for well over 10 years). When my firm sets up a site that has over a hundred pages (just counting the "static" content) and then client say "change these logos", "move the tool bar from the top to the left", or other quite common changes, we would quickly go broke if we decided top open each of the pages and manually modify the HTML. David. -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of R. D. Davis Sent: Sunday, February 08, 2004 12:18 AM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: [SPAM] - Re: Computer Collectors List - update - Bayesian Filter detected spam > > >Brian Mahoney wrote: > I'm not really sure how to do that, I use Dreamweaver to set up the page. A good example of useless software. That explains why so many web pages are created which older browsers can't use, for no good reason. I can't understand why anyone who isn't mentally retarded would even want to use software to design web pages instead of relying upon their own brains. It's much easier to just write all of the HTML by hand. That's what I do, unless I have a need for dynamically generated pages, in which case I write the Perl or javascript by hand that generates the dynamically generated code. It really isn't that difficult to learn HTML and some very basic javascript, since there isn't much at all to learn for the basics. What takes the time is deciding on the overall site and page design itself, not the technical details. Writing the HTML doesn't doesn't take long at all (actually, it's probably faster than fooling with that annoying software used to create web pages) and it will give you much more flexibility. Try it, you'll like it. -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From jpl15 at panix.com Sat Feb 7 23:28:33 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:16 2005 Subject: [SPAM] - Re: Computer Collectors List - update - Bayesian Filter detected spam In-Reply-To: <20040208051748.GE21247@rhiannon.rddavis.org> References: <4024065A.AC936305@compsys.to> <001701c3ed0a$ecd5db40$0300a8c0@look.ca> <20040208051748.GE21247@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: On Sun, 8 Feb 2004, R. D. Davis wrote: > > > >Brian Mahoney wrote: > > I'm not really sure how to do that, I use Dreamweaver to set up the page. > > A good example of useless software. That explains why so many web > pages are created which older browsers can't use, for no good reason. > I can't understand why anyone who isn't mentally retarded would even > want to use software to design web pages instead of relying upon their > own brains. Yeow - and I thought I got in cranky moods once in a while. You, Sir, are the Guru. I am the worthless servant of your servant, less than the dust of your chappals. Your Opinions are my opinions. Your Skills are my skills. Your Abilities are mine, lest I appear 'retarded'. I am not worthy..... Cheers John PS: about that caffein... From jpl15 at panix.com Sat Feb 7 23:31:46 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:16 2005 Subject: Computer Collectors List - update In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: This is getting a bit off-topic, excuse this retarded person's drooling: On Sun, 8 Feb 2004, David V. Corbin wrote: > >>> hmmmm - to my browser (IE6) it's a nice light blue text on black.... > > Try setting your monitor to 2048x1536 resolution and viewing the page! The ^^^^^^^^^ Ah - I can't. IBM Thinkpad Laptop = fixed display res. I'm using a 21" tube here at home that stays on the desk, but I'm stuck with one resolution. That explains it... Thanks! Cheers John From allain at panix.com Sat Feb 7 23:45:15 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:16 2005 Subject: Computer Collectors List - update References: Message-ID: <06f201c3ee06$babbf340$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> >>> hmmmm - to my browser (IE6) it's a nice light blue text on black.... A good quick fix for _viewers_ of web pages with poor text/background contrast is to do a 'select all' on it. The text color will invert, and give you a second chance at viewability. Personally, http://www.cs.unc.edu/~yakowenk/classiccmp/ccrs_list.html is viewable just fine as is. John A. From teoz at neo.rr.com Sat Feb 7 23:47:13 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:16 2005 Subject: Computer Collectors List - update References: Message-ID: <00c401c3ee07$006f9400$0500fea9@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "David V. Corbin" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Sunday, February 08, 2004 12:21 AM Subject: RE: Computer Collectors List - update > >>> hmmmm - to my browser (IE6) it's a nice light blue text on black.... > > Try setting your monitor to 2048x1536 resolution and viewing the page! The > list blue text is so thin (due to the monochromatic nature) that the letters > are nearly invisible. IMHO web pages should all defer to using the default > colors and sizes of the viewer computer for textual information. > > btw: My company does do Web based application design as one of our key > product lines.... > > 2048x1536? Who the hell uses that on a regular basis at home? My inadequate Sony 420GS 19" doesn't do more then 1600x1200, and I use 1280x1024 for all browsing (nice to be able to see the text). What is the design resolution of webpages these days? From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Sat Feb 7 23:55:51 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:16 2005 Subject: [OT] HTML usage... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200402080557.AAA22931@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > When my firm sets up a site that has over a hundred pages (just > counting the "static" content) and then client say "change these > logos", "move the tool bar from the top to the left", or other quite > common changes, we would quickly go broke if we decided top open each > of the pages and manually modify the HTML. As opposed to doing the same with some gooey tool, I suppose? Yes, you should be mechanically generating such boilerplate. But not with point-and-drool tools - unless you want point-and-drool level results. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From nico at farumdata.dk Sun Feb 8 00:00:52 2004 From: nico at farumdata.dk (Nico de Jong) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:16 2005 Subject: Philips Wordprocessor (UK) References: <1076198900.7065.339.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <002f01c3ee08$e943a760$2201a8c0@finans> From: "Jules Richardson" > Another oddity at the computer museum at Bletchley which I unfortunately > didn't get much chance to look over (if there is interest I'll get > better details later in the week). > > It's a Philips machine with twin 8" floppy drives - I'm told a dedicated > wordprocessor, but I'm wondering if it isn't a full-blown CP/M system. > Looks to be circa 1980 anyway. Without pictures, I would say it could be a Philips 5002 or 5020. IIRC, both machines were made by Micon in Canada. Micon is/was at that time a Philips subsidiary Nico From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Sat Feb 7 23:57:14 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:16 2005 Subject: Computer Collectors List - update In-Reply-To: <00c401c3ee07$006f9400$0500fea9@game> References: <00c401c3ee07$006f9400$0500fea9@game> Message-ID: <200402080558.AAA22944@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > 2048x1536? Who the hell uses that on a regular basis at home? I would if I had a monitor (and framebuffer) that could. I used to use 1600x1280 until my last such monitor finally died. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From spectre at floodgap.com Sun Feb 8 00:30:07 2004 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:16 2005 Subject: [OT] HTML usage... In-Reply-To: from "David V. Corbin" at "Feb 8, 4 00:25:29 am" Message-ID: <200402080630.WAA11772@floodgap.com> > While your points are well taken (it is easy to design BAD pages using tools > such as DreamWeaver), hand writing HTML is not practical for most > professional web development (which I have been doing for well over 10 > years). > > When my firm sets up a site that has over a hundred pages (just counting the > "static" content) and then client say "change these logos", "move the tool > bar from the top to the left", or other quite common changes, we would > quickly go broke if we decided top open each of the pages and manually > modify the HTML. ... which is why any server worth its salt offers modularity or template support for including these kinds of components into a standard site-wide skeleton. Even plain-jane Apache can accomplish this with SSI, and some servers like Roxen really go the extra mile in this regard. -- ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@floodgap.com -- High explosives are applicable where truth and logic fail. -- Marcello Corno From rdd at rddavis.org Sun Feb 8 01:08:22 2004 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:16 2005 Subject: [OT] HTML usage... In-Reply-To: References: <20040208051748.GE21247@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <20040208070246.GF21247@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe David V. Corbin, from writings of Sun, Feb 08, 2004 at 12:25:29AM -0500: > When my firm sets up a site that has over a hundred pages (just counting the > "static" content) and then client say "change these logos", "move the tool > bar from the top to the left", or other quite common changes, we would > quickly go broke if we decided top open each of the pages and manually > modify the HTML. Why not just hack a short perl script (or a shell script using various other UNIX-land tools like sed, ed, etc.) to make the changes? You could even use some slightly longer and slightly more complex scripts, C code, or whatever suits your fancy, to automate things a step further. That way, you can automate such tasks without having to resort to commercial software that's doing who knows what sort of screwy things to the HTML, javascript and perhaps cgi scripts as well. Going past that, if you need more complexity, you can set up a system of templates that work with database routines to make some changes on the fly while web pages are being viewed by different categories of human viewers... or different web browsers. All sorts of fun things can be done without lowering yourselt to use such annoying commercial software, without going broke, without hand-modifying the HTML (but still modifying it to your liking, with the same good results as if you had done it by hand), to modify large quantities of HTML. -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From spc at conman.org Sun Feb 8 01:05:20 2004 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:16 2005 Subject: [SPAM] - Re: Computer Collectors List - update - Bayesian In-Reply-To: <20040208051748.GE21247@rhiannon.rddavis.org> from "R. D. Davis" at Feb 08, 2004 12:17:48 AM Message-ID: <20040208070520.81A7710A2361@swift.conman.org> It was thus said that the Great R. D. Davis once stated: > > > > >Brian Mahoney wrote: > > I'm not really sure how to do that, I use Dreamweaver to set up the page. > > A good example of useless software. That explains why so many web > pages are created which older browsers can't use, for no good reason. > I can't understand why anyone who isn't mentally retarded would even > want to use software to design web pages instead of relying upon their > own brains. > > It's much easier to just write all of the HTML by hand. That's what I > do, unless I have a need for dynamically generated pages, in which > case I write the Perl or javascript by hand that generates the > dynamically generated code. It really isn't that difficult to learn > HTML and some very basic javascript, since there isn't much at all to > learn for the basics. What takes the time is deciding on the overall > site and page design itself, not the technical details. Writing the > HTML doesn't doesn't take long at all (actually, it's probably faster > than fooling with that annoying software used to create web pages) and > it will give you much more flexibility. Try it, you'll like it. Possibly. My website [1] was originally hand written [2]. The problem I had was adding new pages to the site. For instance, adding a new about page (with new self-portrait) required creating a new file (which usually was a copy of the previous page and then edited) plus editing two or three other pages. Tedious and somewhat error prone; forget about changing the layout or even updating the HTML to something more modern (original site [2] was HTML 3.2, new site [1] is now HTML 4.01 strict). I have over 140 pages to edit if I want to change the look. Talk about tedious. So I spend about a few weeks total convering my site to XML (pretty much contains the content only), then writing an XSLT file to create all the pages from the XML file, plus add the navigation links. Now it's easier to add pages to the site; heck, it's easy to add whole new sections to the site. But XSLT is *not* an easy thing to work in. Over 1,000 lines of ... code ... to implement an automated way to add new pages. -spc (Now a bit easier to change the look of the site ... ) [1] http://www.conman.org/people/spc/ [2] http://www.flummux.org/spc/ From rdd at rddavis.org Sun Feb 8 01:30:44 2004 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:16 2005 Subject: [SPAM] - Re: Computer Collectors List - update - Bayesian Filter detected spam In-Reply-To: References: <4024065A.AC936305@compsys.to> <001701c3ed0a$ecd5db40$0300a8c0@look.ca> <20040208051748.GE21247@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <20040208072429.GG21247@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe John Lawson, from writings of Sun, Feb 08, 2004 at 12:28:33AM -0500: > Yeow - and I thought I got in cranky moods once in a while. You may address me as Your Royal Grouchiness, my good man. ;-) > You, Sir, are the Guru. I am the worthless servant of your servant, less If I am, then we're all in big trouble... > than the dust of your chappals. Your Opinions are my opinions. Your > Skills are my skills. Your Abilities are mine, lest I appear 'retarded'. Nah, that would make things too boring, and I couldn't have any more reasons to be rumored to be a grouch at times. Still, if everyone who can vote here wants to vote for me as king, and do away with the 2004, and future, presidential debates in the U.S., I surely won't object. It would be your chance to make this a more interesting world to live in. > I am not worthy..... Hey, no danged cheating. Write the entire phrase so we know what you're saying; we don't read minds. Did your teachers allow you to get away with that when being told to write something over and over again on the blackboard in grade school? > PS: about that caffein... As to me, I don't go near the stuff any more... it can be a killer (literally!)... lesson learned the hard way. -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From spc at conman.org Sun Feb 8 01:23:03 2004 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:16 2005 Subject: [OT] HTML usage... In-Reply-To: <20040208070246.GF21247@rhiannon.rddavis.org> from "R. D. Davis" at Feb 08, 2004 02:02:46 AM Message-ID: <20040208072303.20E3010A2361@swift.conman.org> It was thus said that the Great R. D. Davis once stated: > > Quothe David V. Corbin, from writings of Sun, Feb 08, 2004 at 12:25:29AM -0500: > > When my firm sets up a site that has over a hundred pages (just counting the > > "static" content) and then client say "change these logos", "move the tool > > bar from the top to the left", or other quite common changes, we would > > quickly go broke if we decided top open each of the pages and manually > > modify the HTML. > > Why not just hack a short perl script (or a shell script using various > other UNIX-land tools like sed, ed, etc.) to make the changes? You > could even use some slightly longer and slightly more complex scripts, > C code, or whatever suits your fancy, to automate things a step > further. Nice if you have inhouse staff to do that. Then there are maintenance issues of the code base (along with the data for the site). Here's a bit of XSLT that let's me define links to the next and preceeding pages within a section of my site:
  • Next
    •
  • Previous
    •
  • First
  • Last
    • Now, imagine this is part of a company site and I leave my current development position (promoted, new job, whatever). Next guy that comes along now has to maintain this; there's only a handful of people I know that have even worked with XSLT and they're not local to where I am. And this is with an open source XSLT processor running under Unix. -spc (Then there's the issue of the size of the site ... ) From john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org Sat Feb 7 21:05:28 2004 From: john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org (John Boffemmyer IV) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:16 2005 Subject: FS: PC stuff, cleaning out the basement In-Reply-To: <268a201gecef9chu78m8j3tu8dp5ekofc0@4ax.com> References: <268a201gecef9chu78m8j3tu8dp5ekofc0@4ax.com> Message-ID: <6.0.2.0.2.20040207220455.02467320@mail.n.ml.org> Where are you? The AMD unit sounds good. -John Boffemmyer IV At 12:40 PM 2/7/2004, you wrote: >I have too much PC junk sitting around the basement. No drives, >keyboards, or RAM. Working when shelved. > >AMD K6-300 CPU, fan, motherboard, power supply, case. $10 + >postage. > >Intel 486-66 CPU, motherboard, video card, modem card, power >supply, case. $5 + postage. > >I just hate to throw it in the dumpster. Can separate pieces to >keep shipping cost down or if you don't want the cases. > >thanks >Charles ---------------------------------------- Founder, Lead Writer, Tech Analyst and Web Designer Boff-Net Technologies http://boff-net.dhs.org/index.html --------------------------------------- From mrbill at mrbill.net Sat Feb 7 21:16:28 2004 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:16 2005 Subject: FS/FT: big lot of DEC/PDP/VAX handbooks and manuals Message-ID: <20040208031628.GV11563@mrbill.net> Hey everyone, I've got a huge lot of DEC PDP/VAX/etc handbooks and manuals that I need to move out now that I'm concentrating primarily on newer Apple and Sun stuff. This is what I've got left after cleaning out the garage and discarding other manuals that I'm sure other people have already archived or have made available online. Everything is in good shape (considering its age) and none of the books have water damage. One of them (the '73-74 peripherals handbook) has a torn-off cover, but I can fix that with tape. As a bonus, I'll throw in a maroon/purple DEC rack header panel. I'd prefer to keep all this as one big lot, but I might "part it out" if I get a good enough offer. Would like to sell, or trade for useful equipment (x86 systems, older Cisco switches or PIX boxes, Mac systems that will (natively) run OS X, or just make an offer of something interesting). Pictures of everything are up at http://www.mrbill.net/decbooks/ Here's the list. Email me if you're interested. HANDBOOKS: (most all in paperback "novel"-ish size) --------------------------------------------------- RSX 11M+ Mini-Reference (in tiny binder) RSX-11 Handbook (1984-85) LA120 Pocket Service Guide DIGITAL Logic Handbook (1969) - Positive Logic Edition DIGITAL Logic Handbook (1970) DIGITAL Logic Handbook (1973-74) DIGITAL Logic System Design Handbook (1972) LSI-11 PDP11/03 Processor Handbook (1975-76) (three copies) DIGITAL Microcomputer Handbook (1977-78) DIGITAL Microcomputers and Memories (1982) (two copies) DIGITAL Software Handbook (Fall '88/Winter '89) DIGITAL Microcomputer Processors (1978-79) Programming Languages (1972) Hardware Documentation Kit Handbook (Fall '80) Communications Equipment Handbook (1970) ULTRIX Software Guidebook: A Reference to UNIX Software (1st Ed., 1984) VAX Software Handbook (1982-83) VAX Architecture Handbook (1981) (two copies) Terminals & Printers Handbook (1983-84) PDP-8/E & PDP-8/M Small Computer Handbook (1972) PDP-8/E Small Computer Handbook (1971) PDP-11/04/24/34A/44/70 Processor Handbook (1981) PDP-11 Processor Handbook (1978-79) PDP-11/34 Processor Handbook (1976) PDP-11/60 Processor Handbook (1977-78) PDP-11/45 Processor Handbook (1972) PDP-11/40 Processor Handbook (1972) PDP-11 Architecture Handbook (1983-84) (two copies) PDP-11 Micro/PDP-11 Handbook (1983-84) (two copies) PDP-11 Peripherals Handbook (1978-79) PDP-11 Peripherals Handbook (1973-74) PDP-11 Peripherals Handbook (1976) PDP-11 Systems and Options Catalog (Oct/Dec '84) PDP-11 Software Source Book (Fifth Edition, 1986) - Vol. 1 Accounting to Ins. PDP-11 Software Source Book (Second Edition, 1983) - Vol. 2 Systems Software PDP-11 Software Handbook (1976) (three copies) PDP-11 Software Handbook (1986) Laboratory Computer Handbook (PDP-12, 1971) (two copies) OTHER BOOKS: (mostly hardback textbook-type) -------------------------------------------- decsystem10 TECO (Text Editor and Corrector Program) Programmer's Reference Manual (1972) (paper) Introduction to TECO (Text Editor and Corrector) (1975) (paper) VT50 Video Terminal User's Manual (paper) PDP-11 Structured Assembly Language Programming (Sebesta) (hardback) Assembly Language for the PDP-11 (Kapps/Stafford) (hardback) VAX Assembly Language & Architecture (Prindle, Weber, Schmidt) (hardback) NON-DEC: -------- Data General Eclipse S/140 (Programmer's Reference Series) (paper) -- bill bradford mrbill@mrbill.net austin, texas From tim at tim-mann.org Sat Feb 7 21:50:36 2004 From: tim at tim-mann.org (Tim Mann) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:16 2005 Subject: Catweasel Experts out there??? Message-ID: <20040207195036.3b60e45c@giga.mumblefrotz.org> Jim Battle writes: > Hard sectored disks are a problem for the catweasel to write. There is > a function to write from index mark to index mark, except the catweasel > assumes there is just a single index mark per revolution. I haven't written code to do this, but the approach I would take is to align with the sector holes by hand: Spin reading from the input port that returns the hole sensor's status, then give the "start writing immediately" command when you see a hole, and write one sector's worth of data. Then spin waiting for another sector hole and write another sector's worth, etc. You might find that you miss a hole each time and need two revolutions to write the whole track. One reason I suggest this is that it seems like there is yet another reason why the Catweasel's built-in hole-to-hole write isn't suitable. Don't hard-sectored disks have an index hole for the whole track that is about halfway between two of the sector holes? If your disks have that, you'd be unable to write that sector with a hard hole-to-hole Catweasel write -- it would stop halfway through. Still assuming this is true, you could find the track index hole by spinning watching for sector holes and noting the time between each two. When you find two that are too close together, you've found the track index hole. I suppose you might have to do all this in DOS to ensure you don't get interrupts that you don't want and that mess up your timing. I'm not sure disabling interrupts is necessary, though. You also could use Linux, as you can do a Linux iopl system call that gives a user process high enough privileges to read/write I/O ports *and* even disable interrupts if needed. I don't know enough about how hard sectored FDCs work to know if there are problems with this approach... -- Tim Mann tim@tim-mann.org http://tim-mann.org/ From toresbe at ifi.uio.no Sun Feb 8 03:03:28 2004 From: toresbe at ifi.uio.no (Tore S Bekkedal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:16 2005 Subject: Wire Wrapper needed for PDP-7 Message-ID: <016701c3ee22$6c257a00$34b69fc3@ra3> > Therefore, I need to take out all the modules, all the wires, and > start afresh > > This is a REALLY REALLY REALLY bad idea. > > It is hightly doubtful that someone completely rewired the backplane > of this system. > > If you start ripping out wires, there is 0% chance this system will > ever run again. But I have no choice. The processor was modified with an improvised API, and half of this was later removed (leaving the processor useless) Also, an IPB (Inter-Processor Buffer) was made, which connected it to a NORD-1, a not-quite-mini, not-quite-mainframe machine. This has also, of course, been removed. The CPU and IO planes, are, in short, FUBAR. I have complete documentation of the wires, and of module locations, they are all documented clearly in F-77 Maintenance Manual (which you have on your site). They are easy to read, and give a complete schematic of both the backplane, and the module locations. There is 0% chance as is. -tsb From jos.mar at bluewin.ch Sun Feb 8 05:23:23 2004 From: jos.mar at bluewin.ch (Jos Dreesen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:16 2005 Subject: TEk8002 available... Message-ID: <34C65C72-5A29-11D8-9607-000A9585D8F6@bluewin.ch> I've tried before, but here it goes again : Free to a good home : One Tek 8002 microprocessor lab, with software. Used for games development. No documentation, but then there is always Al Kossow... Pods for 8080,6802 and Z80. Never powered on by me. Matching Tek4024 Terminal (nonfunctional) Will be dismantled if no takers. Will use the 8" floppy drives to repair the failing ones in my DSD440. Where : Zurich, Switzerland. Why : as always, no place , no time, too many projects. Jos Dreesen From vcf at siconic.com Sun Feb 8 05:33:04 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:16 2005 Subject: Wire Wrapper needed for PDP-7 In-Reply-To: <016701c3ee22$6c257a00$34b69fc3@ra3> Message-ID: On Sun, 8 Feb 2004, Tore S Bekkedal wrote: > But I have no choice. The processor was modified with an improvised > API, and half of this was later removed (leaving the processor useless) > > Also, an IPB (Inter-Processor Buffer) was made, > which connected it to a NORD-1, a not-quite-mini, not-quite-mainframe > machine. This has also, of course, been removed. > > The CPU and IO planes, are, in short, FUBAR. > > I have complete documentation of the wires, and of module locations, > they are all documented clearly in F-77 Maintenance Manual (which > you have on your site). They are easy to read, and give a complete > schematic of both the backplane, and the module locations. > > There is 0% chance as is. Well, then I say go to it. I think it's a bit presumptuous to say that it would be impossible to re-wire a PDP-7, especially since someone or something (was it done in an automated fashion at the factory?) had to do it to begin with. Difficult, yes, but certainly not impossible, especially if someone is determined to do it. Good luck! And keep us posted on your progress. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From waltje at pdp11.nl Sun Feb 8 05:43:01 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:16 2005 Subject: Wire Wrapper needed for PDP-7 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 8 Feb 2004, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > There is 0% chance as is. > > Well, then I say go to it. I think it's a bit presumptuous to say that it > would be impossible to re-wire a PDP-7, especially since someone or > something (was it done in an automated fashion at the factory?) had to do > it to begin with. > > Difficult, yes, but certainly not impossible, especially if someone is > determined to do it. When I started playing with PDP-11's in 1986, they gave me a messed-up 11/40 system which didnt work. The sys admin said it used to work fine, so I had a good chance of getting it back to life by cleaning out each and every part, stripping the backplane, and then rewiring it. So... I did. I spent the next 3 weeks with a wrap-gun clamped in my right hand, a magnifying thinger on my head (I looked like a surgeon ;-) and lots of paper around me. The good news is.. it DID work afterwards. :) Obviously, a -7 is *much* more work, but assuming Tor as the complete wire lists and module locations, and LOTS of time, he should be able to get that back to life, too. Good luck, Tor.. I still have my wrap gun, you can borrow it if needed! Cheers, Fred -- Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist Visit the VAXlab Project at http://VAXlab.pdp11.nl/ Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Mountain View, CA, USA From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Sun Feb 8 05:43:56 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:16 2005 Subject: Wire Wrapper needed for PDP-7 In-Reply-To: References: <016701c3ee22$6c257a00$34b69fc3@ra3> Message-ID: <20040208114356.GB8273@bos7.spole.gov> On Sun, Feb 08, 2004 at 03:33:04AM -0800, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > ...since someone or something (was it done in an automated fashion at the > factory?) had to do it to begin with. Yes. DEC stuff was done by a combination of man (or woman) and machine. The manufacturing system I am familiar with positioned the wire-wrap gun over the pin under computer control, and a human visually verified the placement and pressed a button to wrap the wire. Apparently, they didn't trust a machine to do the entire operation. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 08-Feb-2004 11:41 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -33.9 F (-36.6 C) Windchill -70.40 F (-56.9 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 10.6 kts Grid 074 Barometer 689.1 mb (10285. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From als at thangorodrim.de Sun Feb 8 05:43:17 2004 From: als at thangorodrim.de (Alexander Schreiber) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:17 2005 Subject: [OT] HTML usage... In-Reply-To: References: <20040208051748.GE21247@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <20040208114317.GA16600@mordor.angband.thangorodrim.de> On Sun, Feb 08, 2004 at 12:25:29AM -0500, David V. Corbin wrote: > R.D. > > While your points are well taken (it is easy to design BAD pages using tools > such as DreamWeaver), hand writing HTML is not practical for most > professional web development (which I have been doing for well over 10 > years). > > When my firm sets up a site that has over a hundred pages (just counting the > "static" content) and then client say "change these logos", "move the tool > bar from the top to the left", or other quite common changes, we would > quickly go broke if we decided top open each of the pages and manually > modify the HTML. Have you never heard of template processors? There are tons of them out there (you could probably even abuse cpp) and if you don't like any of them, a custom one could be whipped up with a few lines of Perl/Python or whatever language you prefer. So you make the logos a defined value, change the replacement rule for it and fed your source through the preprocessor again. > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of R. D. Davis > Sent: Sunday, February 08, 2004 12:18 AM > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: [SPAM] - Re: Computer Collectors List - update - Bayesian > Filter detected spam > > > > > >Brian Mahoney wrote: > > I'm not really sure how to do that, I use Dreamweaver to set up the page. > > A good example of useless software. That explains why so many web > pages are created which older browsers can't use, for no good reason. > I can't understand why anyone who isn't mentally retarded would even > want to use software to design web pages instead of relying upon their > own brains. > > It's much easier to just write all of the HTML by hand. That's what I > do, unless I have a need for dynamically generated pages, in which > case I write the Perl or javascript by hand that generates the > dynamically generated code. It really isn't that difficult to learn > HTML and some very basic javascript, since there isn't much at all to > learn for the basics. What takes the time is deciding on the overall > site and page design itself, not the technical details. Writing the > HTML doesn't doesn't take long at all (actually, it's probably faster > than fooling with that annoying software used to create web pages) and > it will give you much more flexibility. Try it, you'll like it. Regards, Alex. -- "Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work." -- Thomas A. Edison From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun Feb 8 05:42:32 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:17 2005 Subject: Box o' Parts --- ASR 33.. (David V. Corbin) In-Reply-To: "O. Sharp" "RE: Box o' Parts --- ASR 33.. (David V. Corbin)" (Feb 7, 15:29) References: Message-ID: <10402081142.ZM22300@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Feb 7, 15:29, O. Sharp wrote: > David V. Corbin wrote thus: > > > What would really help if there were some good "exploded" mechanicals > > available. > Teletype put out some very good maintenance manuals for the ASR-33, which > had (among other things) very extensive exploded views. _Very_ extensive. > Probably more extensive than you want. :) I haven't found a set online, > unfortunately You can't have looked very hard :-) The Technical Manuals have been on David Guesswein's site for a very long time, the schematics are a slightly more recent addition, and they're all also on Kevin McQuiggin's site. Look at either http://www.pdp8.net/query_docs/query_all.html (near the bottom) http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/pdp8/ (about halfway down) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Sun Feb 8 06:54:37 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:17 2005 Subject: [OT] HTML usage... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1076244112.13760.7.camel@weka.localdomain> On Sun, 2004-02-08 at 05:25, David V. Corbin wrote: > R.D. > > While your points are well taken (it is easy to design BAD pages using tools > such as DreamWeaver), hand writing HTML is not practical for most > professional web development (which I have been doing for well over 10 > years). > > When my firm sets up a site that has over a hundred pages (just counting the > "static" content) and then client say "change these logos", "move the tool > bar from the top to the left", or other quite common changes, we would > quickly go broke if we decided top open each of the pages and manually > modify the HTML. Ok, I know nothing about Dreamweaver - but to make changes like you mention, won't any content management system worth its salt just let you check out the revelvant template from the database, edit it in whatever your favourite HTML editor is, then check it back in? Also, presumably, such a system is independant of web server platform / software, so you're not tied down to a particular vendor either (subject to you not using platform-specific code for the server side and instead using perl, JSP etc.) cheers Jules From wmaddox at pacbell.net Sun Feb 8 07:01:10 2004 From: wmaddox at pacbell.net (William Maddox) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:17 2005 Subject: Wire Wrapper needed for PDP-7 References: <016701c3ee22$6c257a00$34b69fc3@ra3> Message-ID: <013001c3ee43$9f7f5e90$1000a8c0@winxpsp1a2100> Tore, If I understand you correctly, you are saying that major subsystems were added to the CPU and wired into the backplane by a former user, who removed these components without regard to its effect on the operability of the machine before you came into possession of it. That wouldn't surprise me at all. Many academic and lab shops did extensive custom modifications, like the famous BBN paging box on the Tenex KA-10s. If this is the case, then clearly you've got your work cut out for you. I would caution you against assuming that the maintenance manual is complete and accurate for your machine. These machines went through multiple revisions and field ECOs during their lifetime. There was a set of field maintenance prints issued for the specific revision that a customer had, which was then kept up to date with the machine. (At least this is true of the Straight-8 of similar vintage.) It is even possible that you will not have exactly the same cards as documented in the manual, so certainly check this before pulling any wires loose! Consider an ECO that requires an extra gate or two, for example. I think the most prudent course of action would be to leave the existing wiring in place for now, but to carefully trace out what modifications were made and note what wiring has been added and removed. The pictures of the machine show some wiring of a different color -- frequently new wire added during customer modifications or ECOs would be a different color precisely to make it easier to identify, so you might want to see if that theory checks out for your machine. Once you understand the nature of the modifications in detail, then you can undo them. Wire-wrapping is tedious, so you might as well avoid as much of it as you can. A young guy like you might be able to trace out the wiring by eye, with a little help from a continuity tester (cards out for this unless you have a "zero current" tester) and a probe to displace wiring that is obscuring your view. A better bet might be a "fox and hound" type device such as described on Aaron Nabil's "Tools and Tips" page: http://pdp-8.org/tools.html If you have any contact with the original owner, it would definitely be worth tracking down any information that you can dig up on the nature of the modifications, even if the detailed wiring changes are not documented, just to help you make sense of them and sort out what were customer changes and what might simply have been manufacturing differences and ECOs relative to the maintenance manual that you have. As mentioned by others, it would indeed be a good idea to pull all of the cards and clean the connectors. I would recommend labelling all of the cards first with their locations, and not assuming that cards of the same type are interchangeable. Some of the flip-chip cards may have trimpots or jumpers that are adjusted for their particular role. Good luck! --Bill From wmaddox at pacbell.net Sun Feb 8 07:10:58 2004 From: wmaddox at pacbell.net (William Maddox) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:17 2005 Subject: Wire Wrapper needed for PDP-7 References: <016701c3ee22$6c257a00$34b69fc3@ra3> Message-ID: <013e01c3ee44$fe7e9040$1000a8c0@winxpsp1a2100> BTW, any idea what became of the NORD-1? I just pulled up the following website: http://rallar.dynalias.com/sintran/history/history.html I can't read a word of Norwegian, but from the pictures, it appears that Norsk Data made quite a number of interesting machines from 1967 into recent years. --Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tore S Bekkedal" To: ; Sent: Sunday, February 08, 2004 1:03 AM Subject: Re: Wire Wrapper needed for PDP-7 ... > Also, an IPB (Inter-Processor Buffer) was made, > which connected it to a NORD-1, a not-quite-mini, not-quite-mainframe > machine. This has also, of course, been removed. ... From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Sun Feb 8 07:41:03 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:17 2005 Subject: [OT] HTML usage... In-Reply-To: <1076244112.13760.7.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Jules Richardson > Sent: 08 February 2004 12:42 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: RE: [OT] HTML usage... > > > When my firm sets up a site that has over a hundred pages (just > > counting the "static" content) and then client say "change these > > logos", "move the tool bar from the top to the left", or > other quite > > common changes, we would quickly go broke if we decided top > open each > > of the pages and manually modify the HTML. > > Ok, I know nothing about Dreamweaver - but to make changes > like you mention, won't any content management system worth > its salt just let you check out the revelvant template from > the database, edit it in whatever your favourite HTML editor > is, then check it back in? I don't even need to do that these days - after going through the 'bugger, I've got to change 140 pages here' stage last year I standardised on a PHP frontend with CSS backend and top-down navigation for all my sites. Nowadays every page is standard and is generated from 4 files - header, menubar, content & footer. All text, titles, headers, paragraphs etc can be changed instantly by altering a single CSS attribute. Even the photo galleries and picture views are dynamically generated so no sweat to change things there either. If I do need to change something in each PHP file I can safely do it sitewide with 1 dialogue box. All hand coded using Dreamweaver's 'code view' because I like DW's file management and syntax colouring. DW doesn't support PHP per se (well, MX doesn't) other than the colouring so it's instantly obvious if I've missed off a semi-colon or not closed a tag properly. Older browsers are happy because there's nothing complicated for them to render; the only one I've found that can't display properly is an old browser for 68k macs that doesn't understand a
    is a line break so you just get a string of text. Can't remember its name.... Cheers -- Adrian/Witchy Owner & Webmaster, Binary Dinosaurs www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From dvcorbin at optonline.net Sun Feb 8 07:46:39 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:17 2005 Subject: [OT] Screen resolution In-Reply-To: Message-ID: btw: John, that is NOT a typo. I am running a dual monitor system with ViewSoncis P815's at that resolution. Between the two monitors I get the equivilany of 8 1024x768 resolution display areas. Since my development clustor consists of 5 physical machines, each running multiple virtual machines (VmWare), it is a great replacement to having 8-10 individual monitors. -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of John Lawson Sent: Sunday, February 08, 2004 12:32 AM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: RE: Computer Collectors List - update This is getting a bit off-topic, excuse this retarded person's drooling: On Sun, 8 Feb 2004, David V. Corbin wrote: > >>> hmmmm - to my browser (IE6) it's a nice light blue text on black.... > > Try setting your monitor to 2048x1536 resolution and viewing the page! The ^^^^^^^^^ Ah - I can't. IBM Thinkpad Laptop = fixed display res. I'm using a 21" tube here at home that stays on the desk, but I'm stuck with one resolution. That explains it... Thanks! Cheers John From lbickley at bickleywest.com Sun Feb 8 08:58:46 2004 From: lbickley at bickleywest.com (Lyle Bickley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:17 2005 Subject: Wire Wrapper needed for PDP-7 In-Reply-To: <013001c3ee43$9f7f5e90$1000a8c0@winxpsp1a2100> References: <016701c3ee22$6c257a00$34b69fc3@ra3> <013001c3ee43$9f7f5e90$1000a8c0@winxpsp1a2100> Message-ID: <200402080658.46079.lbickley@bickleywest.com> Excellent advice... Lyle On Sunday 08 February 2004 05:01, William Maddox wrote: > Tore, > > If I understand you correctly, you are saying that major subsystems were > added to the CPU and wired into the backplane by a former user, who removed > these components without regard to its effect on the operability of the > machine before you came into possession of it. That wouldn't surprise me > at all. Many academic and lab shops did extensive custom modifications, > like the famous BBN paging box on the Tenex KA-10s. > > If this is the case, then clearly you've got your work cut out for you. I > would caution you against assuming that the maintenance manual is complete > and accurate for your machine. These machines went through multiple > revisions and field ECOs during their lifetime. There was a set of field > maintenance prints issued for the specific revision that a customer had, > which was then kept up to date with the machine. (At least this is true of > the Straight-8 of similar vintage.) It is even possible that you will not > have exactly the same cards as documented in the manual, so certainly check > this before pulling any wires loose! Consider an ECO that requires an > extra gate or two, for example. > > I think the most prudent course of action would be to leave the existing > wiring in place for now, but to carefully trace out what modifications > were made and note what wiring has been added and removed. The pictures of > the machine show some wiring of a different color -- frequently new wire > added during customer modifications or ECOs would be a different color > precisely to make it easier to identify, so you might want to see if that > theory checks out for your machine. Once you understand the nature of the > modifications in detail, then you can undo them. Wire-wrapping is tedious, > so you might as well avoid as much of it as you can. A young guy like you > might be able to trace out the wiring by eye, with a little help from a > continuity tester (cards out for this unless you have a "zero current" > tester) and a probe to displace wiring that is obscuring your view. A > better bet might be a "fox and hound" type device such as described on > Aaron Nabil's "Tools and Tips" page: http://pdp-8.org/tools.html If you > have any contact with the original owner, it would definitely be worth > tracking down any information that you can dig up on the nature of the > modifications, even if the detailed wiring changes are not documented, just > to help you make sense of them and sort out what were customer changes and > what might simply have been manufacturing differences and ECOs relative to > the maintenance manual that you have. > > As mentioned by others, it would indeed be a good idea to pull all of the > cards and clean the connectors. I would recommend labelling all of the > cards first with their locations, and not assuming that cards of the same > type are interchangeable. Some of the flip-chip cards may have trimpots or > jumpers that are adjusted for their particular role. > > Good luck! > > --Bill -- Lyle Bickley Bickley Consulting West Inc. http://bickleywest.com "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero" From djg at pdp8.net Sun Feb 8 10:32:49 2004 From: djg at pdp8.net (djg@pdp8.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:17 2005 Subject: Box o' Parts --- ASR 33.. (David V. Corbin) Message-ID: <200402081632.i18GWnu23946@user-119apiu.biz.mindspring.com> From: "David V. Corbin" >What would really help if there were some good "exploded" mechanicals >available. For example 3 of the keys have come completely loose on the >keyboard. Figuring out where they hook back in and to which parts is not (at >least to me) simple! > Did you see the three Bulletin manuals in http://www.pdp8.net/pdp8cgi/query_docs/query.pl?Search=teletype They have exploded diagrams. See secton *-121-* in each of the three manuals. From: "O. Sharp" >Teletype put out some very good maintenance manuals for the ASR-33, which >had (among other things) very extensive exploded views. _Very_ extensive. >Probably more extensive than you want. :) I haven't found a set online, >unfortunately, but if you keep an eye on ePay they seem to turn up >every couple of weeks (sometimes the actual manuals, more often a copy >which is scanned and then burned to CD). > The link above has these manuals. I wonder if they are selling my scans or did their own. David Gesswein http://www.pdp8.net/ -- Run an old computer with blinkenlights Have any PDP-8 stuff you're willing to part with? From dvcorbin at optonline.net Sun Feb 8 11:13:40 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:17 2005 Subject: Box o' Parts --- ASR 33.. (David V. Corbin) In-Reply-To: <200402081632.i18GWnu23946@user-119apiu.biz.mindspring.com> Message-ID: >>>Did you see the three Bulletin manuals in..... They are exactly what I was looking for! The funny part is I did download and print 11x17 copies of all of the schematics, but was brain dead and missed the Service Bulletins! Thanks again! From vcf at siconic.com Sun Feb 8 11:40:17 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:17 2005 Subject: [OT] HTML usage... In-Reply-To: <20040208114317.GA16600@mordor.angband.thangorodrim.de> Message-ID: On Sun, 8 Feb 2004, Alexander Schreiber wrote: > Have you never heard of template processors? There are tons of them out > there (you could probably even abuse cpp) and if you don't like any of > them, a custom one could be whipped up with a few lines of Perl/Python > or whatever language you prefer. So you make the logos a defined value, > change the replacement rule for it and fed your source through the > preprocessor again. Gosh, Guys. David said his company has been doing web design for 10 years. You could probably assume that they've seen every technology and method for designing and implementing web pages there are and are probably using them as well. I think the folks who've responded so far read way too much into what David said. So anyway, yes, we're all HTML geniuses around here, but the discussion is kinda lame. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From marvin at rain.org Sun Feb 8 11:45:38 2004 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:17 2005 Subject: UCC 1035 Terminal Message-ID: <402675C2.5E13F883@rain.org> In cleaning out some stuff, I ran across a UCC 1035 Terminal (printer w/ keyboard) A quick Google check didn't bring up anything about this. Is this something worth saving, or should it hit the dumpster? From jpl15 at panix.com Sun Feb 8 11:47:48 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:17 2005 Subject: [OT] HTML usage... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, 8 Feb 2004, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > So anyway, yes, we're all HTML geniuses around here, but the discussion is ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ that dont meen us retarded peeple, huh? jOhN From gerold.pauler at gmx.net Sun Feb 8 12:45:34 2004 From: gerold.pauler at gmx.net (Gerold Pauler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:17 2005 Subject: UCC 1035 Terminal References: <402675C2.5E13F883@rain.org> Message-ID: <402683CE.8060600@gmx.net> Marvin Johnston wrote: > In cleaning out some stuff, I ran across a UCC 1035 Terminal (printer w/ > keyboard) A quick Google check didn't bring up anything about this. Is > this something worth saving, or should it hit the dumpster? This could be some sort of teletype. Cause many ASR33 have a UCC6 (call control unit). Does it look like an ASR35? Or am I completely wrong? Gerold From evan947 at yahoo.com Sun Feb 8 12:51:59 2004 From: evan947 at yahoo.com (evan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:17 2005 Subject: Interesting NY Times story... Message-ID: <20040208185159.24041.qmail@web14003.mail.yahoo.com> >>>>> February 1, 2004, Sunday Radio Days or High-Tech, It's All the Same By NEIL GENZLINGER THOSE of you who are still hoping that computers, cellphones, digital cameras and other modern gadgetry are passing fads and that we will soon return to the simpler days of a half-century ago might have been dismayed with what Phil Vourtsis had on display at the David Sarnoff Library the other day. The event was a combination exhibition and radio-repair clinic, with members of the New Jersey Antique Radio Club doing the honors. Mr. Vourtsis, the club's president and the author of ''The Fabulous Victrola 45,'' had a display related to the dear departed 45-r.p.m. record that was fascinating and hilarious, but also depressing. The hilarity came from a 1949 promotional film in which an impossibly earnest fellow was extolling the virtues of this new way to listen to music. ''Distortion-free records!'' he exclaimed. And indestructible. ''Bend 'em, bounce 'em; nothing happens!'' The depressing part was Mr. Vourtsis' sampling of newspaper articles from the period. It turns out the innocent little 45 wasn't so innocent after all; it was part of a war between RCA-Victor (which made many of its breakthroughs at labs in New Jersey) and Columbia for the ears of America. The new 45 from RCA was competing with a seven-inch disc Columbia had just introduced as well as Columbia's LP's, and all were different from older-style records - different speeds, different needles, different players. ''The record-playing public,'' read one account, ''which buys from 200,000,000 to 300,000,000 new disks a year, is faced with three mutually exclusive methods of reproducing music from records. Neither of the two new records can be played on conventional phonographs or radio-phonographs, nor can either be used on competing record-playing machines.'' It sounded, in other words, dismayingly like the technological warfare that bedevils us today: VCR's vs. assorted types of DVD's, CD's vs. MP3's, Windows vs. Macs, attachments that won't open, digital cameras that won't download. Evidently there never really was a simpler time; products have always tried to push one another out of the marketplace, and frustrated consumers have always been left to play catch-up. ''Only today the turnaround on a product is much faster,'' Mr. Vourtsis said. His club (www.njarc.org) has about 200 members, and watching them have fun with antique radios and other ancient technology makes you wonder what people will be doing a few decades hence with old cellphones. (Notice how primitive the ones from the 90's already look?) Lately, for instance, they've been having a contest to see who can pick up the most distant radio signal on a vintage receiver. When conditions are right, noise from Chicago or Canada or Mexico might squawk through the classic sets. At the Sarnoff event, in Princeton, the club's experts ran a repair clinic where people could bring old radios for free doctoring. Some who brought in sick sets were fellow hobbyists, but others were hoping to revive a personal keepsake. A lot of old radios are being unearthed these days in New Jersey and everywhere else as the radio-crazy generation dies off and its offspring inherit attics full of stuff. Mr. Vourtsis said that at first the repair clinics were just for club members, but then it seemed there might be laymen out there in need of vacuum-tube and soldering-gun assistance. ''It's pretty rewarding when we're able to help them out because they feel like they've reconnected with something from their childhood,'' he said. Certain radios can be worth thousands of dollars, he said, though many more models were just as mass-produced as anything today and are worth less than a first-generation digital camera. Also, some antique sets might prefer to remain idle. For instance, someone once brought in an Emerson Catalin that gave Mr. Vourtsis pause. ''It was the kind of thing where I really didn't want to get the radio working again because heat from the radio could damage the cabinet,'' he said, ''and with the Catalin that's where the value is.'' One other booth from the Sarnoff event is worth mentioning, what with Valentine's Day not far off. It was a display of valentines, sheet music and such with radio themes, from the days when radio was new. ''There's a Wireless Station Down in My Heart,'' was one song title. A card read, ''Over the radio you can hear me pine, I want you for my Valentine.'' Apparently, linking romantic sentiments to the high-tech device of the moment gives them extra credibility. So here's an assignment for the season: Use the words iPod, memory stick, mini-DVD and MP3 in a love poem. Give it to your sweetie. Then duck. From aek at spies.com Sun Feb 8 13:38:34 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:17 2005 Subject: Wire Wrapper needed for PDP-7 Message-ID: <200402081938.i18JcYPp018933@spies.com> I think it's a bit presumptuous to say that it would be impossible to re-wire a PDP-7, especially since someone or something (was it done in an automated fashion at the factory?) had to do it to begin with. -- I'm in a betting mood... I will wager $1000 USD that this machine won't be operational (running all existing diagnostics or at least the CPU/memory/DECtape tests) by this time next year. FWIW the wire wrap bit and unwrapper is larger than the std #28/#30 since the pins on first generation flip chips were rectangular. From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Sun Feb 8 13:38:13 2004 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:17 2005 Subject: More old software available Message-ID: Complete packages as far as I know. They can be shipped media rate to keep costs low. Powersoft powerbuilder desktop 3.0 Netware lite/DRDOS 6.0 Harvard Graphics 1.03 Map Master by Decision Resources Groupwise 4.1 IBM PC 3270 emulation program still shrinkwrapped Asymetrix toolbook versions 1.52 and 3.0 Freelance graphics for DOS 4.0 you can pay for shipping via paypal -- I am not willing to give up my liberties for the appearance of 'security' From marvin at rain.org Sun Feb 8 13:46:58 2004 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:17 2005 Subject: UCC 1035 Terminal References: <402675C2.5E13F883@rain.org> <402683CE.8060600@gmx.net> Message-ID: <40269232.442AD8BB@rain.org> It looks like this could also have a data terminal attached to it. The print mechanism is a ball, and I guess it could be a Selectric mechanism. My memory is gone :), and I don't recall what the ASR35 looks like. Gerold Pauler wrote: > > Marvin Johnston wrote: > > In cleaning out some stuff, I ran across a UCC 1035 Terminal (printer w/ > > keyboard) A quick Google check didn't bring up anything about this. Is > > this something worth saving, or should it hit the dumpster? > > This could be some sort of teletype. > Cause many ASR33 have a UCC6 (call control unit). > Does it look like an ASR35? Or am I completely wrong? > Gerold From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Sun Feb 8 13:47:41 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:17 2005 Subject: Computer Collectors List - update References: <00c401c3ee07$006f9400$0500fea9@game> Message-ID: <4026925D.4070605@jetnet.ab.ca> Teo Zenios wrote: > 2048x1536? Who the hell uses that on a regular basis at home? My inadequate > Sony 420GS 19" doesn't do more then 1600x1200, and I use 1280x1024 for all > browsing (nice to be able to see the text). What is the design resolution of > webpages these days? Who knows ?? Right now I have more problms with Java and flash and IE problems running Mozilla. 800 x 600 works fine for me. Anything larger the text is too small to read. From mrbill at mrbill.net Sun Feb 8 10:44:31 2004 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:17 2005 Subject: DEC handbooks have been claimed. Message-ID: <20040208164431.GQ11563@mrbill.net> Someone bought (or will be buying) everything as a lot; I'm keeping a few of the handbooks where I have multiple copies and will be sending those to the particular people interested in those specific titles. Thanks, and I'm glad to see all this going to a good and proper home. Bill -- bill bradford mrbill@mrbill.net austin, texas From willisj at atlantis.clogic-int.com Sun Feb 8 16:24:30 2004 From: willisj at atlantis.clogic-int.com (John Willis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:17 2005 Subject: More old software available In-Reply-To: from "SUPRDAVE@aol.com" at Feb "8, " 2004 "02:38:13" pm Message-ID: <200402082224.PAA15237@atlantis.clogic-int.com> are you selling this as a whole package or are you willing to part out? if so, I'm quite interested in the Asymetrix toolbook. -- John Willis UNIX Systems Administrator Associate Lockheed Martin IS&S CEO and Co-Founder Coherent Logic Development http://www.coherent-logic.com/ willisj@atlantis.clogic-int.com From gerold.pauler at gmx.net Sun Feb 8 17:12:44 2004 From: gerold.pauler at gmx.net (Gerold Pauler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:17 2005 Subject: HP ASR33 reader run control References: <200402081938.i18JcYPp018933@spies.com> Message-ID: <4026C26C.9070004@gmx.net> Hello, after all I managed to update the schematics of the reader run control of my ASR33 Teletype from HP. I also put a schematic of the RSR232 to 20 mA current loop converter that I am using online. And I have updated the teletype portion of my website. Now I "only" have to clean up the scanned copies of the Geveke schematics with photoshop to make them more readable and then put them in nice pdf files. If interested take a look at http://pdp8.de/en Gerold From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Sun Feb 8 18:04:07 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:17 2005 Subject: Wire Wrapper needed for PDP-7 In-Reply-To: <013e01c3ee44$fe7e9040$1000a8c0@winxpsp1a2100> References: <016701c3ee22$6c257a00$34b69fc3@ra3> <013e01c3ee44$fe7e9040$1000a8c0@winxpsp1a2100> Message-ID: <200402090018.TAA27982@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > http://rallar.dynalias.com/sintran/history/history.html > I can't read a word of Norwegian, but from the pictures, it appears > that Norsk Data made quite a number of interesting machines from 1967 > into recent years. I have some minimal competence in Norwegian (I lived in Troms? for six months and made an effort to pick up what I could, and have continued practicing it when I could since returning). I'm not good enough to translate the whole thing without taking quite a long time at it (I still need to look up typically a word or two per sentence), but if there's anything in particular you'd like to ask me to translate, I can have a stab at it. (Of course, we quite likely have Scandanavians here who are far more competent to translate from Norwegian than I.) I do see one fragment I find hilarious [the " kule" bits are presumably image alt= tags; gul=yellow, gr?nn=green, kule=bullet/sphere]: 1996 Gul kule Intel lanserer 200MHz Pentium Pro. Gr?nn kule Microsoft kommer med versjon 4.0 av Windows Nintendo Technoligy (NT). Nintendo Technology is _easily_ the best expansion of NT I've ever seen. (That last sentence is, fairly literally, "Green bullet Microsoft comes with version 4.0 of Windows Nintendo Technology (NT)".) /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From lbickley at bickleywest.com Sun Feb 8 18:19:33 2004 From: lbickley at bickleywest.com (Lyle Bickley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:17 2005 Subject: Great "donation" from a friend... Message-ID: <200402081619.33820.lbickley@bickleywest.com> Several years ago I lent a friend an ADM-3 Terminal he needed for a project. Yesterday he gave it back to me - along with "interest" ;-) Here's the goodies he gave me: IMSAI 8080 (with a perfect front panel) IMSAI 8080 (with video console) Digital Microsystems DSC-2 TEI S-100 bus system Godbout S-100 Dual Chassis system w/HDD Poly88 (Original "orange" chassis, keyboard, etc.) FDE S-100 system (not a complete name - it just escapes me at the moment) (2) Spare Shugart (SA800) - one is brand new in original box Spare chips, ROMS, etc. Literally hundreds of 8" CP/M disks Documentation on all of the above Thanks, Dave, for all the goodies!!!! Lyle -- Lyle Bickley Bickley Consulting West Inc. http://bickleywest.com "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero" From jpl15 at panix.com Sun Feb 8 18:30:35 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:17 2005 Subject: Great "donation" from a friend... In-Reply-To: <200402081619.33820.lbickley@bickleywest.com> References: <200402081619.33820.lbickley@bickleywest.com> Message-ID: SSSSSSCCCOOOOOOOOOOORRRRRRE!!!!!!!!!!! Woo Hoo To You! Good job - may it bring you hours of retro-joy. Cheers John From dwight.elvey at amd.com Sun Feb 8 19:04:05 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:17 2005 Subject: data i/o 19 Message-ID: <200402090104.RAA08144@clulw009.amd.com> Hi Al I have the manuals for the data i/o in my car. Are you expecting to be at Vito's on Monday night and if so, at what time? Dwight From dwight.elvey at amd.com Sun Feb 8 19:12:06 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:17 2005 Subject: data i/o 19 Message-ID: <200402090112.RAA08152@clulw009.amd.com> Oops! this was for Al Kossow. Sorry about that. Dwight >From: "Dwight K. Elvey" >Hi Al > I have the manuals for the data i/o in my car. Are you >expecting to be at Vito's on Monday night and if so, >at what time? >Dwight > > > From marvin at rain.org Sun Feb 8 19:36:34 2004 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:17 2005 Subject: DOS 3.x, etc. Message-ID: <4026E422.E86BAC23@rain.org> My BIL is getting rid of some older stuff, and has about 20 copies of DOS 3.x. Anyone interested? Also, we about half filled up a dumpster with old mono, cga, ega, vga monitors and printers, along with some other ... stuff. Hardly a dent in all the stuff here, but at least it is a start :). There is still about 1/3 of the space left in the dumpster and the project for the next day is to fill it! I found several Wang monitors, another NS Horizon, more IBM mono, CGA, and PGA monitors, some NIB TI floppy disks, bunches of PC cards, another ADM3, and a bunch of other stuff I hadn't seen in a while. This actually gets to be fun seeing this stuff again ... almost like finding it out in the wild :). From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Sun Feb 8 19:40:13 2004 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:17 2005 Subject: More old software available Message-ID: <97.43cb9eea.2d583efd@aol.com> In a message dated 2/8/2004 5:53:24 PM Eastern Standard Time, willisj@atlantis.clogic-int.com writes: are you selling this as a whole package or are you willing to part out? if so, I'm quite interested in the Asymetrix toolbook. I'm selling it singled out. what version of toolbook? -- I am not willing to give up my liberties for the appearance of 'security' From curt at atarimuseum.com Sun Feb 8 20:08:06 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:17 2005 Subject: Great "donation" from a friend... In-Reply-To: <200402081619.33820.lbickley@bickleywest.com> References: <200402081619.33820.lbickley@bickleywest.com> Message-ID: <4026EB86.9030207@atarimuseum.com> Nice going Lyle!!! Man you can't get that kind of return from the Stock Market!!! ;-) Curt Lyle Bickley wrote: >Several years ago I lent a friend an ADM-3 Terminal he needed for a project. >Yesterday he gave it back to me - along with "interest" ;-) > >Here's the goodies he gave me: > >IMSAI 8080 (with a perfect front panel) >IMSAI 8080 (with video console) >Digital Microsystems DSC-2 >TEI S-100 bus system >Godbout S-100 Dual Chassis system w/HDD >Poly88 (Original "orange" chassis, keyboard, etc.) >FDE S-100 system (not a complete name - it just escapes me at the moment) >(2) Spare Shugart (SA800) - one is brand new in original box >Spare chips, ROMS, etc. >Literally hundreds of 8" CP/M disks >Documentation on all of the above > >Thanks, Dave, for all the goodies!!!! > >Lyle > > -- Curt Vendel & Karl Morris ----------------------------------------------------------------------- The Atari Museum http://www.atarimuseum.com The Atari Explorer http://www.atari-explorer.com From vcf at siconic.com Sun Feb 8 20:19:17 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:17 2005 Subject: Wire Wrapper needed for PDP-7 In-Reply-To: <200402081938.i18JcYPp018933@spies.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 8 Feb 2004, Al Kossow wrote: > I'm in a betting mood... > > I will wager $1000 USD that this machine won't be operational (running all > existing diagnostics or at least the CPU/memory/DECtape tests) by this time > next year. Well, that depends on a lot of factors. Is this assuming the machine will be re-wired completely, or assume Tore will just try to fix it as is? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From pat at computer-refuge.org Sun Feb 8 20:34:43 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:17 2005 Subject: Amiga VideoToaster news Message-ID: <200402082134.43560.pat@computer-refuge.org> For those of you that have/use/care about NewTek's Amiga Video Toaster, and don't read slashdot, NewTek has release the source to most of the software. For more info: http://www.openvideotoaster.org/ Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ From lbickley at bickleywest.com Sun Feb 8 20:51:17 2004 From: lbickley at bickleywest.com (Lyle Bickley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:17 2005 Subject: Amiga VideoToaster news In-Reply-To: <200402082134.43560.pat@computer-refuge.org> References: <200402082134.43560.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: <200402081851.17937.lbickley@bickleywest.com> Thanks, this is really good news! Lyle On Sunday 08 February 2004 18:34, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > For those of you that have/use/care about NewTek's Amiga Video Toaster, > and don't read slashdot, NewTek has release the source to most of the > software. For more info: > http://www.openvideotoaster.org/ > > Pat -- Lyle Bickley Bickley Consulting West Inc. http://bickleywest.com "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero" From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Feb 8 20:52:49 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:17 2005 Subject: DOS 3.x, etc. In-Reply-To: <4026E422.E86BAC23@rain.org> References: <4026E422.E86BAC23@rain.org> Message-ID: <20040208185005.Q95410@newshell.lmi.net> On Wed, 4 Feb 2004, Jay West wrote: > I have an IBM PC 5150 system unit and keyboard. . . . > Here's the deal: I'd like someday to find an authentic IBM brand > monitor for this. However, I'm not sure if it is mono, CGA, or EGA, On Sun, 8 Feb 2004, Marvin Johnston wrote: > Also, we about half filled up a dumpster with old mono, cga, ega, vga > monitors and printers, along with some other ... stuff. Hardly a dent in You two should talk. From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Sun Feb 8 15:03:23 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:17 2005 Subject: Wire Wrapper needed for PDP-7 In-Reply-To: <200402081938.i18JcYPp018933@spies.com> References: <200402081938.i18JcYPp018933@spies.com> Message-ID: <20040208210323.GB4400@bos7.spole.gov> On Sun, Feb 08, 2004 at 11:38:34AM -0800, Al Kossow wrote: > I will wager $1000 USD that this machine won't be operational (running all > existing diagnostics or at least the CPU/memory/DECtape tests) by this time > next year. Hmm... $0.50 or $1 per hour to prove you wrong? If it were my machine, I might even take you up on that bet. Not a sure thing, though. > FWIW the wire wrap bit and unwrapper is larger than the std #28/#30 since > the pins on first generation flip chips were rectangular. Good point. When I get home, I hope to be working on some stuff of this nature (if I can't find a PT08, I'll have to build one; I have a PA60 that nobody seems to know ever existed that would make a nice platform). I've also thought about a non-rotating (reversible) mod to a DF32 since I'm pretty sure my platters are screwed. At this point, all I can do is plan; I don't have WW tools for the older backplanes. Also, for a seperate project (peripherals for an -8/L), does anyone know if it's still possible to find any of the bus strip for DEC backplanes. They used to sell it on a roll - it had alternating large and small holes so you could, for example, tie all the A1 pins successive slots together (the version for the older, single-sided backplane was simpler, just a bunch of sequential square holes in a line). I've thought about what it would take to build a stamping machine to crank it out of something soft like ribbon copper (then tin it), but my machining skills are much too primitive. Any suggestions on finding/making bus strip? -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 08-Feb-2004 20:52 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -37.7 F (-38.7 C) Windchill -69.09 F (-56.2 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 9 kts Grid 067 Barometer 687.8 mb (10333. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From tomj at wps.com Sun Feb 8 21:36:55 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:17 2005 Subject: Wire Wrapper needed for PDP-7 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1076297087.2722.55.camel@fiche> On Sat, 2004-02-07 at 15:49, David V. Corbin wrote: > John, > > Are you referring to: > > 1) manual (non-powered wire-wrap tools) > 2) electric wire-wriap guns > 3) CNC semi automated wire-wrap systems > 4) retired job shoppers proficient in wire wrapping (especially high > density). I'm hardly expert, but I've done it. The art of wirewrapping revolves around one basic principle: NEVER CHANGE LEVELS! eg. posts will accept 2, 3 or 4 wraps per post. When you wrap on a post, if it's the first (bottom) wrap, the other end of the wire must be the first (bottom) wrap. If you are wiring a buss, or a daisy-chained line like a clock, you do it thusly: | | | | | z.......z z.......z z.... . . z z......z z.......z The reason: rework. You'll rediscover all the First Principles if you have to rework/repair/modify something done wrong. THere's a variation in wirewrap gun types, the fist turn is with/without insulation. I've only done prototype stuff that does the turn of wire-plus-insulation, for added strength. > > If item 3 or 4, pleas let me know...(I already have #1 and #2) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of John Willis > Sent: Saturday, February 07, 2004 4:46 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Wire Wrapper needed for PDP-7 > > > I have a bunch of wire wrappers and the wires to > go with them. > > > > -- > John Willis > UNIX Systems Administrator Associate > Lockheed Martin IS&S > > CEO and Co-Founder > Coherent Logic Development > http://www.coherent-logic.com/ > > willisj@atlantis.clogic-int.com > > From tomj at wps.com Sun Feb 8 21:40:22 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:17 2005 Subject: Wire Wrapper needed for PDP-7 In-Reply-To: <004f01c3eddd$b2eae640$4201d1ac@aoldsl.net> References: <20040207214003.61028.qmail@web60710.mail.yahoo.com> <004f01c3eddd$b2eae640$4201d1ac@aoldsl.net> Message-ID: <1076297295.2722.59.camel@fiche> On Sat, 2004-02-07 at 16:51, Ed Sharpe wrote: > might try to get one of the power wire wrappers..... > > makes life go faster.... Oh absolutely! AC powered. The battery ones are OK if the batteries are new, but charge fades with use and your wrap quality drops. That really sucks. The cord is a nuisance, but less so than loose wraps! You're bringing back painful memories, stop the torture! > > ed sharpe > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "SHAUN RIPLEY" > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > Sent: Saturday, February 07, 2004 2:40 PM > Subject: Re: Wire Wrapper needed for PDP-7 > > > > > > --- Tore S Bekkedal wrote: > > > Hello! > > > > > > I sent an email about a month or two back to Al > > > Kossow saying that I was starting work on the PDP-7 > > > again. With ungodly timing I proceeded to come down > > > with the flu, travel abroad, and move. So here I am > > > again. ;) > > > I have come to the conclusion after some > > > wire-tracing and so on, that this machine is smoking > > > crack, and that very little is where it should be > > > (except for core memory, everything seems right > > > there). The processor has been modified ad nauseum, > > > of course without documentation of any kind. > > > > > > Therefore, I need to take out all the modules, all > > > the wires, and start afresh (might be a good idea, > > > anyway - - this way I can clean all the contacts > > > properly). Thus, I need a wire-wrapping tool. Does > > > anyone here have one? > > I know a guy who has a set. He asked $100. I can send > > him email to contact you if you are interested. > > > > > > > > TIA > > > > > > -tsb > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. > > http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html > > > > From tomj at wps.com Sun Feb 8 21:51:49 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:17 2005 Subject: Wire Wrapper needed for PDP-7 In-Reply-To: <20040208034746.GB10412@bos7.spole.gov> References: <200402080058.i180w3D0030289@spies.com> <20040208034746.GB10412@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: <1076297981.2720.70.camel@fiche> I also agree it's a bad idea to strip. I meant to mention earlier, and it's pointful here, is that a large part of the art of wirewrapping is in the wrap schedule/wiring diagram. We used to spend WEEKS on that part alone. There's a VAST amount of knowledge buried in there. If you ahve wrap wiring schedule then maybe, but armed with just schematics, it's a task likely to fail. There's actual subtlety in there. >From experience: *** Wirewrap is an unreliable technology. It relied on a mechanical system to produce a gas-tight metal-to-metal seal, with dissimilar metals, fraught with difficulty. If exposed to large tmperature swings, especially over long periods of time, gas-tight is becomes not, and resistance/impedance becomes erratic, and that matt of wire becomes a nightmare. Wirewraps killed my old Varian 622/I (18-bit) machine in the 80's. Wirewrap is/was a prototype technology, applied to low-run production. This stuff didn't have to live forever, and generally didn't. *** BE WARNED that posts once-wire-wrapped, are not as reliable as new ones! The rely on the sharp, square edge for that gas-tight connection. Once wrapped, the edge is damaged. Used wirewrap posts are unreliable. If there are no more than two levels used, you could solder each post, but that woudl be unbelievably tedious and damage-prone. More than two, and you probably couldn't get a soldering in there. For bringing up the PDP-7, I'd concentrate on functional areas, if possible. If you end up removing a wire or two I'd even go so far as preserve paths and levels and wire guage. tomj On Sat, 2004-02-07 at 19:47, Ethan Dicks wrote: > On Sat, Feb 07, 2004 at 04:58:03PM -0800, Al Kossow wrote: > In response to: > > Therefore, I need to take out all the modules, all the wires, and > > start afresh > > > > This is a REALLY REALLY REALLY bad idea. > > > > It is hightly doubtful that someone completely rewired the backplane > > of this system. > > > > If you start ripping out wires, there is 0% chance this system will > > ever run again. > > I have to agree. I did this a long time ago to a damaged PDP-8/L (broken > wires, broken enclosure, missing front-plex and broken front panel...) > > At the time, I had two and had _no_ prints. I still have the net-list I > made from dismantling it (but it's of no value now that I have real PDP-8/L > prints). > > I wish I hadn't done it now and I can only plead youth and ignorance (I was > 16 when I got the pair of -8/Ls). > > The point of this is to say that completely stripping the backplane is > probably a one-way activity. Documenting and removing the cards and > cleaning the slots (with a sliver of manila folder soaked in isopropanol) > on the other hand, is a good idea. That is entirely reversible. > > -ethan From aw288 at osfn.org Sun Feb 8 21:41:04 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:17 2005 Subject: Wire Wrapper needed for PDP-7 In-Reply-To: <20040208210323.GB4400@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: > Any suggestions on finding/making bus strip? I would etch new ones from brass then plate them (tin or whatever). I think making tooling would be a bit of a pain, and not worth the effort. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From tomj at wps.com Sun Feb 8 21:56:48 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:17 2005 Subject: Wire Wrapper needed for PDP-7 In-Reply-To: <016701c3ee22$6c257a00$34b69fc3@ra3> References: <016701c3ee22$6c257a00$34b69fc3@ra3> Message-ID: <1076298281.2720.74.camel@fiche> On Sun, 2004-02-08 at 01:03, Tore S Bekkedal wrote: t I have no choice. The processor was modified with an improvised > API, and half of this was later removed (leaving the processor useless) Well there you go! :-) > I have complete documentation of the wires, and of module locations, > they are all documented clearly in F-77 Maintenance Manual (which > you have on your site). They are easy to read, and give a complete > schematic of both the backplane, and the module locations. If you have the wirewrap schedule, then you have a decent chance. Maybe consider some sort of treatment for the posts? Deoxide? (My old Varian came with one for some reason. It could be wired as a 16-bit or 18-bit machine by changing some dozen or 100 wires. The cards were 6-bit slices of DTL and early TTL.) From tomj at wps.com Sun Feb 8 22:00:57 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:17 2005 Subject: Wire Wrapper needed for PDP-7 In-Reply-To: <200402081938.i18JcYPp018933@spies.com> References: <200402081938.i18JcYPp018933@spies.com> Message-ID: <1076298529.2722.76.camel@fiche> #20 wirewrap was also common, just not on high-density stuff. On Sun, 2004-02-08 at 11:38, Al Kossow wrote: > FWIW the wire wrap bit and unwrapper is larger than the std #28/#30 since > the pins on first generation flip chips were rectangular. From jwest at classiccmp.org Sun Feb 8 22:27:29 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:17 2005 Subject: DOS 3.x, etc. References: <4026E422.E86BAC23@rain.org> <20040208185005.Q95410@newshell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <002201c3eec5$07695f20$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> yeah, no doubt. I posted publicly a while back, but sounds like they already hit the dumpster ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Cisin" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Sunday, February 08, 2004 8:52 PM Subject: Re: DOS 3.x, etc. > On Wed, 4 Feb 2004, Jay West wrote: > > I have an IBM PC 5150 system unit and keyboard. . . . > > Here's the deal: I'd like someday to find an authentic IBM brand > > monitor for this. However, I'm not sure if it is mono, CGA, or EGA, > > On Sun, 8 Feb 2004, Marvin Johnston wrote: > > Also, we about half filled up a dumpster with old mono, cga, ega, vga > > monitors and printers, along with some other ... stuff. Hardly a dent in > > You two should talk. > > From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Sun Feb 8 22:46:08 2004 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:17 2005 Subject: Compaq portable III available Message-ID: <2b.50761d76.2d586a90@aol.com> Worked fine several years ago, but now posts a 201 error and screen distortion in the corner. Has one floppy and one hard drive. In good shape, looks like it got dropped on a corner before the time I got it. $3 gets it. -- I am not willing to give up my liberties for the appearance of 'security' From marvin at rain.org Sun Feb 8 22:56:19 2004 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:17 2005 Subject: DOS 3.x, etc. References: <4026E422.E86BAC23@rain.org> <20040208185005.Q95410@newshell.lmi.net> <002201c3eec5$07695f20$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <402712F3.A4F2EFCA@rain.org> To clarify, the monitors that hit the dumpster were what I consider to be no-name monitors (Samsung, Princeton, Goldstar, etc.) and same with the printers. I kept the IBM and a few other monitors that go with systems (Compaq, Wang.) There is also a good possibility that Sellam has a nice selection of older monitors through the business. The stuff I am getting rid of is stuff that is still pretty much readily available, and hence (to me anyway), worthless. Jay West wrote: > > yeah, no doubt. I posted publicly a while back, but sounds like they already > hit the dumpster > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Fred Cisin" > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > Sent: Sunday, February 08, 2004 8:52 PM > Subject: Re: DOS 3.x, etc. > > > On Wed, 4 Feb 2004, Jay West wrote: > > > I have an IBM PC 5150 system unit and keyboard. . . . > > > Here's the deal: I'd like someday to find an authentic IBM brand > > > monitor for this. However, I'm not sure if it is mono, CGA, or EGA, > > > > On Sun, 8 Feb 2004, Marvin Johnston wrote: > > > Also, we about half filled up a dumpster with old mono, cga, ega, vga > > > monitors and printers, along with some other ... stuff. Hardly a dent in > > > > You two should talk. > > > > From wmaddox at pacbell.net Sun Feb 8 23:56:47 2004 From: wmaddox at pacbell.net (William Maddox) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:17 2005 Subject: Old PC video multimedia hardware (free) Message-ID: <005b01c3eed1$80f03fb0$1000a8c0@winxpsp1a2100> MediaVision Pro Movie Spectrum (ca. 1992-1993) ISA video capture and display card. Includes Microsoft Video for Windows 1.0 w/manual and Macromedia Action 2.5 Looks like the card was never used, but the software and box show some wear. Sigma Designs REALmagic Rave VLB graphics accelerator with MPEG playback hardware. Also have another S.D. card with no documentation that looks like the ISA version of the above. This stuff was dumped on me by a neighbor who is moving -- literally showed up on my doorstep. Free for the cost of shipping to anyone who wants it, otherwise, it goes to the recycler. --Bill From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Mon Feb 9 05:37:18 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:17 2005 Subject: Perq 2T1 display fault In-Reply-To: <20040208012233.GD21247@rhiannon.rddavis.org> References: <1076196906.7064.303.camel@weka.localdomain> <20040208012233.GD21247@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <1076325410.14901.20.camel@weka.localdomain> On Sun, 2004-02-08 at 01:22, R. D. Davis wrote: > Quothe Jules Richardson, from writings of Sat, Feb 07, 2004 at > 11:35:06PM +0000: > > > Got a Perq 2T1 with the KME 1514 portrait monitor - the display on the > > front of the unit gets as far as 999 on power-up so it's looking > > reasonably healthy. Only problem is an unstable display; it seems to be > > missing out every 4th or so scanline, plus there's some horizontal > > instability (I can see what appear to be characters on the display, but > > they aren't readable at all) > > One of my PERQ T2's had a similar problem years ago, but that was with > the 19" landscape Moniterm monitor. To solve the problem, I simply > replaced the PLL chip in the monitor. Hmm, there isn't a lot in the way of ICs in these monitors by the looks of it - I noticed an LS device which is presumably part of the sync separation circuitry, then there was a TDA1170 device on the board too. I seem to remember those are used in Microvitec CUB monitors and are prone to failure (I have some spares somewhere), but I can't remember what sort of symptoms they give when they fail. > Did you try reseating the boards or just letting the maching run for > hours and hours? Is the problem intermittent? yes, yes and no :-) It doesn't seem to be temperature-related anyway. At least the HV circuitry is still alive, so fingers crossed it's fixable... > > Oh, and if anyone's dishing out Perq wisdom there's also a Perq 1 with a > > display fault too - on that one the image is centered on the screen, but > > squashed into about 80% of the normal width, and maybe 10% of normal > > height. It's also very non-rectangular in nature. > > Never experienced that problem with my PERQ-1 systems... the only > major thing that ever went wrong with them were head crashes. :-( For > those not familiar with these machines, they had either SA4004 or > SA4008 14", 12MB and 24MB, hard drives... not easy to find > replacements for, alas. Yuck. Not sure how alive that one is. I can tell they're both going to be another couple of those headache machines where I can't work out how to back up the data ready for when the drives do eventually die :( We may have drive replacements for the Perq-1 in store, but I'm betting we don't have original install media... cheers Jules From gordonjcp at gjcp.net Mon Feb 9 04:16:20 2004 From: gordonjcp at gjcp.net (Gordon JC Pearce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:18 2005 Subject: Perq 2T1 display fault In-Reply-To: <1076196906.7064.303.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <1076196906.7064.303.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <1076321065.23764.13.camel@pluto> On Sat, 2004-02-07 at 23:35, Jules Richardson wrote: > Oh, and if anyone's dishing out Perq wisdom there's also a Perq 1 with a > display fault too - on that one the image is centered on the screen, but > squashed into about 80% of the normal width, and maybe 10% of normal > height. It's also very non-rectangular in nature. Monitor being fed too high a voltage? Too *low* a voltage to the scanning? Might just be out of adjustment - possibly someone's fiddled with all the trimmers. We used to call TVs in that condition "NICAM" sets, Nasty Intruder Caused Absolute Mayhem. Gordon. From pkoning at equallogic.com Mon Feb 9 08:16:12 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:18 2005 Subject: Wire Wrapper needed for PDP-7 References: <200402081938.i18JcYPp018933@spies.com> <20040208210323.GB4400@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: <16423.38444.62000.137999@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Ethan" == Ethan Dicks writes: Ethan> .... I've also thought Ethan> about a non-rotating (reversible) mod to a DF32 since I'm Ethan> pretty sure my platters are screwed. If the heads are still good (not all that likely, but you can hope) then I believe you can just flip the platter. You would have to write new timing tracks, though, and finding the specs for that could be tricky. paul From pkoning at equallogic.com Mon Feb 9 08:20:07 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:18 2005 Subject: Wire Wrapper needed for PDP-7 References: <1076297087.2722.55.camel@fiche> Message-ID: <16423.38679.781000.890876@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Tom" == Tom Jennings writes: Tom> THere's a variation in wirewrap gun types, the fist turn is Tom> with/without insulation. I've only done prototype stuff that Tom> does the turn of wire-plus-insulation, for added strength. Yes. If the first turn has insulation, it's called a "modified" wrap. The difference is in the wrap tool bit -- the bit for the modified wrap has a bore for the wire that accepts the insulation up to however far it needs to go to make that one wrap around. This means that you have to be careful to seat the wire fully into the bit. Modified wrap is stronger. The drawback is that it has more inductance. You'd want to look at the original work to see which was used and apply that to new work too. For high speed logic, modified wrap would be a bad idea. I suspect PDP-7s are not "high speed", and indeed I'm fairly sure that PDP-11s used modified wrap too. On the other hand, a University of Illinois project I've seen was done with ECL logic and standard wrap. (That was for Cyber add-on memory.) paul From brad at heeltoe.com Mon Feb 9 09:04:12 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:18 2005 Subject: box o'ISDN Message-ID: <200402091504.i19F4CP05657@mwave.heeltoe.com> This is not really vintage, but I have a box of ISDN "stuff" I'd like to get rid of. I post here in case anyone is interested. An nice TA (adtran), several ascend pipe-50's (2-3), cables, a clam, an NT-1, and an old 56k router box from Imatek. I'll willing to give it away (paypal postage, etc..). but just in case, I'd love to find any sort of unibus floppy interface, broken or otherwise. And unibus bus grant cards - could use a few of those :-) can't hurt to ask. (and if you have a spare 11/73... heh :-) -brad From jrkeys at concentric.net Mon Feb 9 09:27:41 2004 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:18 2005 Subject: For Chip Collectors Message-ID: <005401c3ef21$43c52a60$77406b43@66067007> Check this auction, I have NOTHING to do with it or the parson selling. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2786033645&category=1247 From curt at atarimuseum.com Mon Feb 9 09:46:12 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:18 2005 Subject: SIMH Help References: Message-ID: <000c01c3ef23$d827b2c0$1a02a8c0@starship1> Hi, I'm just trying out SIMH and I'm not quite familiar with the way it works. I've attached an image as an RL02 to the RL0 Unit, but where do I go from there to get it to be assigned something similar to what a real vax would have, normally my RL02's would come up as a DLA0: and so forth, I've been looking through the SIMH help, but I am missing something and I want to make the drive.img file accessible as a drive in SIMH so I can access its contents, thanks in advance for any help offered. RL, address=20001900-20001909, vector=270, 4 units RL0, 5242KW, attached to d:\rl02s\disk1.img, write enabled, RL02 RL1, 2621KW, not attached, write enabled, autosize RL2, 2621KW, not attached, write enabled, autosize RL3, 2621KW, not attached, write enabled, autosize Curt From jrkeys at concentric.net Mon Feb 9 09:47:14 2004 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:18 2005 Subject: Control Data Computer At $66.00 Message-ID: <005a01c3ef23$fe589d60$77406b43@66067007> Has anyone ever seen one of these ? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2785574420&category=4193 From vcf at siconic.com Mon Feb 9 10:28:11 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:18 2005 Subject: Control Data Computer At $66.00 In-Reply-To: <005a01c3ef23$fe589d60$77406b43@66067007> Message-ID: On Mon, 9 Feb 2004, Keys wrote: > Has anyone ever seen one of these ? > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2785574420&category=4193 Oh, very cool. I've never seen it before but basically it's a cheap terminal to the CDC Plato system which was fairly popular in from the mid-1970s through the early 1980s. Normally you had to have a fancy terminal to access all the advanced features of Plato. This is a TI 99/4a re-branded as CDC and sold with a terminal program carthridge to emulate a Plato terminal. Neat. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From esharpe at uswest.net Mon Feb 9 12:16:02 2004 From: esharpe at uswest.net (Ed Sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:18 2005 Subject: Control Data Computer At $66.00 References: Message-ID: <000b01c3ef38$c732ad20$ade681ac@aoldsl.net> remember there was also a cdc institute that would teach you to program too.... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vintage Computer Festival" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Monday, February 09, 2004 9:28 AM Subject: Re: Control Data Computer At $66.00 > On Mon, 9 Feb 2004, Keys wrote: > > > Has anyone ever seen one of these ? > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2785574420&category=4193 > > Oh, very cool. > > I've never seen it before but basically it's a cheap terminal to the CDC > Plato system which was fairly popular in from the mid-1970s through the > early 1980s. Normally you had to have a fancy terminal to access all the > advanced features of Plato. This is a TI 99/4a re-branded as CDC and sold > with a terminal program carthridge to emulate a Plato terminal. > > Neat. > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage mputers ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > > > From vcf at siconic.com Mon Feb 9 11:15:32 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:18 2005 Subject: FYI Message-ID: I finally implemented SpamAssassin on VCF e-mail accounts after trialing it with a personal account for about a month. I've gone from something like 200+ spams a day to almost none. My personal account has done similarly well though after a while the spam count started creeping back up, but its still at a very manageable level. Instead of having to wade through hundreds of spams every 2-3 days when I would check that account, it's now maybe 10-15. Question: has anyone been able to make SpamAssassin be "perfect" (i.e. no spam at all)? Anyway, the reason for this message, other than to claim (for now) victory against spam, is to let people know that if they do have trouble contacting me for some reason, it may be because SpamAssassin is equating your message with spam. If so, please page me here in the mailing list or you can send me a message via the VCF contact page: http://www.vintage.org/contact.php I LOVE SPAMASSASSIN!!! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From esharpe at uswest.net Mon Feb 9 12:18:40 2004 From: esharpe at uswest.net (Ed Sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:18 2005 Subject: For Chip Collectors References: <005401c3ef21$43c52a60$77406b43@66067007> Message-ID: <001701c3ef39$24dc5660$ade681ac@aoldsl.net> neat group.... if some kind soul out there has a 4004 and an 8008 microprocessor thaey would be willing to share, sell or barter let us know... Thanks! Ed Sharpe Archivist for SMECC See the Southwest Museum of Engineering, Communications and Computation online at: http://www.smecc.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "Keys" To: "cctalk@classiccmp" Sent: Monday, February 09, 2004 8:27 AM Subject: For Chip Collectors > Check this auction, I have NOTHING to do with it or the parson selling. > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2786033645&category=1247 > > From jcwren at jcwren.com Mon Feb 9 11:23:35 2004 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:18 2005 Subject: Control Data Computer At $66.00 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4027C217.3050104@jcwren.com> His fonts aren't large enough. There's still a few pixels available on my monitor. --jc Vintage Computer Festival wrote: >On Mon, 9 Feb 2004, Keys wrote: > > > >>Has anyone ever seen one of these ? >>http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2785574420&category=4193 >> >> > >Oh, very cool. > >I've never seen it before but basically it's a cheap terminal to the CDC >Plato system which was fairly popular in from the mid-1970s through the >early 1980s. Normally you had to have a fancy terminal to access all the >advanced features of Plato. This is a TI 99/4a re-branded as CDC and sold >with a terminal program carthridge to emulate a Plato terminal. > >Neat. > > > From vcf at siconic.com Mon Feb 9 11:27:52 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:18 2005 Subject: Interesting NY Times story... In-Reply-To: <20040208185159.24041.qmail@web14003.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 8 Feb 2004, evan wrote: > His club (www.njarc.org) has about 200 members, and > watching them have fun with antique radios and other > ancient technology makes you wonder what people will > be doing a few decades hence with old cellphones. > (Notice how primitive the ones from the 90's already > look?) Lately, for instance, they've been having a > contest to see who can pick up the most distant radio > signal on a vintage receiver. When conditions are > right, noise from Chicago or Canada or Mexico might > squawk through the classic sets. I don't know, will there be parallels like this in the future with modern gadgets? Stuff today is so inaccessible from a retroist point of view. The cellular networks 50-75 years from now probably won't support what we use today, and unless cellular towers will be cheap, abundant, and easy to store in our garage, we probably won't be setting up our own networks to see how far we can call for fun. Even then, will this stuff be kept around like surplus military gear was, or will it be recycled into future products? Will it even work? Stuff from the past was meant to last, while stuff we make now is made to break in a year or less so we will be forced to "upgrade" (a euphemsism for spending more money needlessly). -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From curt at atarimuseum.com Mon Feb 9 11:32:02 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:18 2005 Subject: Control Data Computer At $66.00 In-Reply-To: <4027C217.3050104@jcwren.com> References: <4027C217.3050104@jcwren.com> Message-ID: <4027C412.3040200@atarimuseum.com> Atari actually hired in a bunch of former CDC managers, they released a Plato Network cartridge for the Atari 800. It used the graphics mode 8 (192X320) mode and I remember signing up in 84-85 for the service and it was incredible to see animated screens and simple music come up from the service.... too bad it closed, it was a spectacular pre-today's-internet look at what would come down the road. Curt J.C. Wren wrote: > His fonts aren't large enough. There's still a few pixels available > on my monitor. > > --jc > > Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > >> On Mon, 9 Feb 2004, Keys wrote: >> >> >> >>> Has anyone ever seen one of these ? >>> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2785574420&category=4193 >>> >>> >> >> >> Oh, very cool. >> >> I've never seen it before but basically it's a cheap terminal to the CDC >> Plato system which was fairly popular in from the mid-1970s through the >> early 1980s. Normally you had to have a fancy terminal to access all >> the >> advanced features of Plato. This is a TI 99/4a re-branded as CDC and >> sold >> with a terminal program carthridge to emulate a Plato terminal. >> >> Neat. >> >> >> > > -- Curt Vendel & Karl Morris ----------------------------------------------------------------------- The Atari Museum http://www.atarimuseum.com The Atari Explorer http://www.atari-explorer.com From marvin at rain.org Mon Feb 9 12:03:23 2004 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:18 2005 Subject: FYI References: Message-ID: <4027CB6B.1B9F0594@rain.org> My ISP uses SpamAssassin, and it has only once characterized something as spam when it was not (an email newsletter.) However, the things that are getting through are URLs that load when the email is read (unless you read offline of course.) I just continue to send them to SpamCop. It *has* helped, but the real solution is to make it painful/expensive/nonprofitable for the spammers to continue. Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > I finally implemented SpamAssassin on VCF e-mail accounts after trialing > it with a personal account for about a month. I've gone from something > like 200+ spams a day to almost none. > > My personal account has done similarly well though after a while the spam > count started creeping back up, but its still at a very manageable level. > Instead of having to wade through hundreds of spams every 2-3 days when I > would check that account, it's now maybe 10-15. > > Question: has anyone been able to make SpamAssassin be "perfect" (i.e. no > spam at all)? > > Anyway, the reason for this message, other than to claim (for now) victory > against spam, is to let people know that if they do have trouble > contacting me for some reason, it may be because SpamAssassin is equating > your message with spam. If so, please page me here in the mailing list > or you can send me a message via the VCF contact page: > > http://www.vintage.org/contact.php > > I LOVE SPAMASSASSIN!!! > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From waltje at pdp11.nl Mon Feb 9 12:05:29 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:18 2005 Subject: SIMH Help In-Reply-To: <000c01c3ef23$d827b2c0$1a02a8c0@starship1> Message-ID: Curt, > I'm just trying out SIMH and I'm not quite familiar with the way it works. > I've attached an image as an RL02 to the RL0 Unit, but where do I go from > there to get it to be assigned something similar to what a real vax would > have, normally my RL02's would come up as a DLA0: and so forth, I've been > looking through the SIMH help, but I am missing something and I want to make > the drive.img file accessible as a drive in SIMH so I can access its > contents, thanks in advance for any help offered. > > > RL, address=20001900-20001909, vector=270, 4 units > RL0, 5242KW, attached to d:\rl02s\disk1.img, write enabled, RL02 > RL1, 2621KW, not attached, write enabled, autosize > RL2, 2621KW, not attached, write enabled, autosize > RL3, 2621KW, not attached, write enabled, autosize OK, looks like you indeed have an R/W RL02 image loaded. If this is a VAX simulator, you will also need the KA655's ROM image (its usually called ka655.bin or similar), so the VAX can load it and then execute it. After doing all the device attachments in SimH, you "boot" the VAX by typing: simh> boot cpu which basically loads the ROM file, and executes it, reasulting in the usual display of selftest messages, and ending you into the wellknown >>> prompt. A "show device" should indeed tell you it sees a DLA0 device, which you can boot the usual way (boot dla0:) ... Cheers, Fred -- Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist Visit the VAXlab Project at http://VAXlab.pdp11.nl/ Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Mountain View, CA, USA From vcf at siconic.com Mon Feb 9 12:12:17 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:18 2005 Subject: Control Data Computer At $66.00 In-Reply-To: <4027C412.3040200@atarimuseum.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 9 Feb 2004, Curt Vendel wrote: > Atari actually hired in a bunch of former CDC managers, they released a > Plato Network cartridge for the Atari 800. It used the graphics mode 8 > (192X320) mode and I remember signing up in 84-85 for the service and it > was incredible to see animated screens and simple music come up from the > service.... too bad it closed, it was a spectacular > pre-today's-internet look at what would come down the road. Setting up a Plato network would be a neat exercise. I wonder what would be involved? Is the server-side software still around anywhere? Just what was the server (some CDC mainframe I assume)? Can it be emulated? Running on the original hardware would of course be preferable but mayeb not practical. I think at least one person here has a Plato terminal. How many are still out there? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From curt at atarimuseum.com Mon Feb 9 12:25:45 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:18 2005 Subject: SIMH Help References: Message-ID: <002f01c3ef3a$30ab2510$1a02a8c0@starship1> Thanks for the help Fred.... Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred N. van Kempen" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Monday, February 09, 2004 1:05 PM Subject: Re: SIMH Help > Curt, > > > I'm just trying out SIMH and I'm not quite familiar with the way it works. > > I've attached an image as an RL02 to the RL0 Unit, but where do I go from > > there to get it to be assigned something similar to what a real vax would > > have, normally my RL02's would come up as a DLA0: and so forth, I've been > > looking through the SIMH help, but I am missing something and I want to make > > the drive.img file accessible as a drive in SIMH so I can access its > > contents, thanks in advance for any help offered. > > > > > > RL, address=20001900-20001909, vector=270, 4 units > > RL0, 5242KW, attached to d:\rl02s\disk1.img, write enabled, RL02 > > RL1, 2621KW, not attached, write enabled, autosize > > RL2, 2621KW, not attached, write enabled, autosize > > RL3, 2621KW, not attached, write enabled, autosize > > OK, looks like you indeed have an R/W RL02 image loaded. If this > is a VAX simulator, you will also need the KA655's ROM image (its > usually called ka655.bin or similar), so the VAX can load it and > then execute it. > > After doing all the device attachments in SimH, you "boot" the > VAX by typing: > > simh> boot cpu > > which basically loads the ROM file, and executes it, reasulting > in the usual display of selftest messages, and ending you into > the wellknown >>> prompt. > > A "show device" should indeed tell you it sees a DLA0 device, > which you can boot the usual way (boot dla0:) ... > > Cheers, > Fred > -- > Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist > Visit the VAXlab Project at http://VAXlab.pdp11.nl/ > Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ > Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Mountain View, CA, USA > From curt at atarimuseum.com Mon Feb 9 12:28:39 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:18 2005 Subject: Control Data Computer At $66.00 References: Message-ID: <003001c3ef3a$8993eae0$1a02a8c0@starship1> Hey I'm up for it, I guess we'd need a system with some serial ports or a few modems attached, there is a website: Plato People: http://www.platopeople.com/about.html That seems to have some good history, I wonder if they have salvaged any of the code or even a working system, it would be a great collective project to try and get going and to see back on-line. I have a few brand new sealed Plato packages for the Atari 800/XL/XE line if anyone is interested, contact me off-list. Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vintage Computer Festival" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Monday, February 09, 2004 1:12 PM Subject: Re: Control Data Computer At $66.00 > On Mon, 9 Feb 2004, Curt Vendel wrote: > > > Atari actually hired in a bunch of former CDC managers, they released a > > Plato Network cartridge for the Atari 800. It used the graphics mode 8 > > (192X320) mode and I remember signing up in 84-85 for the service and it > > was incredible to see animated screens and simple music come up from the > > service.... too bad it closed, it was a spectacular > > pre-today's-internet look at what would come down the road. > > Setting up a Plato network would be a neat exercise. I wonder what would > be involved? > > Is the server-side software still around anywhere? Just what was the > server (some CDC mainframe I assume)? Can it be emulated? Running on the > original hardware would of course be preferable but mayeb not practical. > > I think at least one person here has a Plato terminal. How many are still > out there? > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage mputers ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Feb 9 12:36:15 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:18 2005 Subject: FYI In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040209103452.T12269@newshell.lmi.net> On Mon, 9 Feb 2004, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > I LOVE SPAMASSASSIN!!! It's still a disappointment to find out that it has never actually assassinated any spammers. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred From bob_lafleur at technologist.com Mon Feb 9 12:46:16 2004 From: bob_lafleur at technologist.com (Bob Lafleur) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:18 2005 Subject: Control Data Computer At $66.00 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200402091345328.SM00900@bobdev> > Is the server-side software still around anywhere? Just what was the server (some CDC mainframe I assume)? Can it be emulated? Running on the original hardware would of course be preferable but mayeb not practical. The servers ran on CDC mainframes. There are several emulation projects "in progress", most noteably is Tom Hunter's Desktop Cyber. The emulator is available for free, but the OS software is harder to get. There is a handful of people who have been "allowed" to use older versions of the OS software for hobbyist use by the current copyright holder (Syntegra), but this is not an "everyone who wants it can get it" thing. Also, I'm not sure if any versions of Plato OS are included. Tom Hunter does claim that the Plato OS will run on his emulator, but he has not released the OS. The CDC "cyber" mainframes are VERY complex, much harder to emulate than other systems. And the OS's are cryptic, at best. Real CDC "cyber" mainframe hardware is very rare. There is one system operating and open to the general public for use (not running Plato, but running NOS) at www.cray-cyber.org. I do know that some of the (very intelligent) individuals involved in the Cyber emulation projects are quite interested in making Plato work. I believe the hurdles are (1) Finding surviving copies of the OS tapes and courseware, (2) Emulating the hardware to run them (mostly working now I'd guess), and (3) getting permission to actually use the software, as the Plato trademark or whatever is still owned by a company that isn't too free about it's use. Hopefully some of this information is helpful. - Bob From curt at atarimuseum.com Mon Feb 9 13:07:57 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:18 2005 Subject: FYI References: <20040209103452.T12269@newshell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <005501c3ef40$07a89520$1a02a8c0@starship1> Thats Nixon's fault for putting in that non-assassination ammendment ;-) Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Cisin" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Cc: "Bay Area Computer Collector List" Sent: Monday, February 09, 2004 1:36 PM Subject: Re: FYI > On Mon, 9 Feb 2004, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > I LOVE SPAMASSASSIN!!! > > It's still a disappointment to find out that it has > never actually assassinated any spammers. > > > -- > Grumpy Ol' Fred > > > > > > > > From bernd at kopriva.de Mon Feb 9 13:18:37 2004 From: bernd at kopriva.de (Bernd Kopriva) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:18 2005 Subject: Fortune systems parts available In-Reply-To: <333D9700B499084C9DF804896DDA717801044B73@dewdfx14.wdf.sap.corp> Message-ID: <200402091930.i19JUXOD096790@huey.classiccmp.org> When "googling" for Information on "Fortune 32:16" i found that one : On Mon Apr 21 00:52:13 2003, Kelly Leavitt wrote: > I have the mother board (no security chip), several I/O cards, console > card, console, two terminals, a paper box of software and manuals (I > haven't inventoried yet), floppy drive and a power supply for a fortune > 16:32 (or was it 32:16?). > > All the cards and motherboard are in their original shipping/packing > containers. > > This is the spare parts inventory of a local (New Jersey USA) law firm > that has moved on to one of the Linux > > Any takers? > > Make and offer (I'm not looking for ebay prices). Would be shipping from > 07848. > > Kelly ... i know, it's some time since then, but : is this stuff still available (especially software and docs) ? I have a Fortune Systems 32:16, but the hard disk is dead, so after replacment, i need the software ... Thanks Bernd From technobug at comcast.net Mon Feb 9 13:21:09 2004 From: technobug at comcast.net (CRC) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:18 2005 Subject: Perq 2T1 display fault In-Reply-To: <200402091643.i19GhPOE095254@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <200402091643.i19GhPOE095254@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <1D5B34E2-5B35-11D8-AAFD-003065B0DA30@comcast.net> On Sat, 2004-02-07 at 23:35, Jules Richardson wrote: > Oh, and if anyone's dishing out Perq wisdom there's also a Perq 1 with > a > display fault too - on that one the image is centered on the screen, > but > squashed into about 80% of the normal width, and maybe 10% of normal > height. It's also very non-rectangular in nature. Chatted with my good buddy who still makes a living repairing terminals. His guess is that the horizontal yoke isolation cap is leaking/bad. This will definitely make the horizontal squoosh. Many terminals derive the drive voltage for the vertical from the horizontal flyback - thereby causing the problem you are seeing. His recommendations: 1. look for an oversized cap (electrolytic - yup one of those beasties...) near the horizontal drive transistor (generally heatsinked) that has a rating between 35 and 60 volts and a value between 2.2 and 20 microfarads. This is the isolation cap. If it is in the 2.2 to 4.7 volt range replace it with a film cap - you will never have a problem again. You can't reform this one since they put AC (albeit mostly DC) through the cap and once it goes it's gone. 2. Replace any electrolytic near anything that looks hot. 3. Inspect, clean, lubricate, and replace, if necessary, the yoke connector socket. His experience is that when the cap goes, the current through the yoke goes up and fries the connector. The bad connection will cause early failures. If the vertical problem persists, you probably have a similar problem with a cap in the vertical drive or a power supply problem. Good luck Claude Ceccon From vcf at siconic.com Mon Feb 9 13:36:55 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:18 2005 Subject: FYI In-Reply-To: <20040209103452.T12269@newshell.lmi.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 9 Feb 2004, Fred Cisin wrote: > On Mon, 9 Feb 2004, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > I LOVE SPAMASSASSIN!!! > > It's still a disappointment to find out that it has > never actually assassinated any spammers. True, but I heard a rumor that version 3.0 will address this (although a subscription payable to a guy named Guido may be required ;) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Mon Feb 9 13:39:48 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:18 2005 Subject: Fortune systems parts available In-Reply-To: <200402091930.i19JUXOD096790@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 9 Feb 2004, Bernd Kopriva wrote: > When "googling" for Information on "Fortune 32:16" i found that one : > > On Mon Apr 21 00:52:13 2003, Kelly Leavitt wrote: > > > I have the mother board (no security chip), several I/O cards, console > > card, console, two terminals, a paper box of software and manuals (I > > haven't inventoried yet), floppy drive and a power supply for a fortune > > 16:32 (or was it 32:16?). > > > > All the cards and motherboard are in their original shipping/packing > > containers. > > > > This is the spare parts inventory of a local (New Jersey USA) law firm > > that has moved on to one of the Linux > > > > Any takers? > > > > Make and offer (I'm not looking for ebay prices). Would be shipping from > > 07848. > > > > Kelly > > ... i know, it's some time since then, but : is this stuff still available (especially > software and docs) ? > > I have a Fortune Systems 32:16, but the hard disk is dead, so after replacment, > i need the software ... Hi Bernd. There is probably little chance (though still a small chance perhaps) that this is available. However, I do believe I just got the OS install media for a Fortune 32:16 which I can share with you. I'll have to check and find out what I have. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From lbickley at bickleywest.com Mon Feb 9 14:14:21 2004 From: lbickley at bickleywest.com (Lyle Bickley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:18 2005 Subject: FYI In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200402091214.21459.lbickley@bickleywest.com> Sellam, I've been using SpamAssassin for several months - and you can tweak it to the place where it screens out 99% of the SPAM w/virtually no false positives. ? There are spammers who "train" their Email on SpamAssassin - who can get through. ?When they do, I forward their SPAMs to SpamCop - where they get blacklisted - and at least you won't hear from that particular ISP/vendor again. ?What this means is that it never will reach 100% - but 99% is good enough for me (I kinda enjoy nailing the ones that get through ;-) Lyle On Monday 09 February 2004 09:15, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > I finally implemented SpamAssassin on VCF e-mail accounts after trialing > it with a personal account for about a month. I've gone from something > like 200+ spams a day to almost none. > > My personal account has done similarly well though after a while the spam > count started creeping back up, but its still at a very manageable level. > Instead of having to wade through hundreds of spams every 2-3 days when I > would check that account, it's now maybe 10-15. > > Question: has anyone been able to make SpamAssassin be "perfect" (i.e. no > spam at all)? > > Anyway, the reason for this message, other than to claim (for now) victory > against spam, is to let people know that if they do have trouble > contacting me for some reason, it may be because SpamAssassin is equating > your message with spam. If so, please page me here in the mailing list > or you can send me a message via the VCF contact page: > > http://www.vintage.org/contact.php > > I LOVE SPAMASSASSIN!!! -- Lyle Bickley Bickley Consulting West Inc. http://bickleywest.com "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero" From lbickley at bickleywest.com Mon Feb 9 14:14:21 2004 From: lbickley at bickleywest.com (Lyle Bickley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:18 2005 Subject: FYI In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200402091214.21459.lbickley@bickleywest.com> Sellam, I've been using SpamAssassin for several months - and you can tweak it to the place where it screens out 99% of the SPAM w/virtually no false positives. ? There are spammers who "train" their Email on SpamAssassin - who can get through. ?When they do, I forward their SPAMs to SpamCop - where they get blacklisted - and at least you won't hear from that particular ISP/vendor again. ?What this means is that it never will reach 100% - but 99% is good enough for me (I kinda enjoy nailing the ones that get through ;-) Lyle On Monday 09 February 2004 09:15, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > I finally implemented SpamAssassin on VCF e-mail accounts after trialing > it with a personal account for about a month. I've gone from something > like 200+ spams a day to almost none. > > My personal account has done similarly well though after a while the spam > count started creeping back up, but its still at a very manageable level. > Instead of having to wade through hundreds of spams every 2-3 days when I > would check that account, it's now maybe 10-15. > > Question: has anyone been able to make SpamAssassin be "perfect" (i.e. no > spam at all)? > > Anyway, the reason for this message, other than to claim (for now) victory > against spam, is to let people know that if they do have trouble > contacting me for some reason, it may be because SpamAssassin is equating > your message with spam. If so, please page me here in the mailing list > or you can send me a message via the VCF contact page: > > http://www.vintage.org/contact.php > > I LOVE SPAMASSASSIN!!! -- Lyle Bickley Bickley Consulting West Inc. http://bickleywest.com "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero" From tomj at wps.com Mon Feb 9 14:42:23 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:18 2005 Subject: Perq 2T1 display fault In-Reply-To: <1076321065.23764.13.camel@pluto> References: <1076196906.7064.303.camel@weka.localdomain> <1076321065.23764.13.camel@pluto> Message-ID: <1076358611.1651.45.camel@dhcp-250132> On Mon, 2004-02-09 at 02:04, Gordon JC Pearce wrote: > Monitor being fed too high a voltage? Too *low* a voltage to the > scanning? Might just be out of adjustment - possibly someone's fiddled > with all the trimmers. We used to call TVs in that condition "NICAM" > sets, Nasty Intruder Caused Absolute Mayhem. "But sir, all the screws were loose in those little tin cans, so I tightened 'em all down." From vrs at msn.com Mon Feb 9 14:48:49 2004 From: vrs at msn.com (vrs) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:18 2005 Subject: PAxx (was: Re: Wire Wrapper needed for PDP-7) References: <200402081938.i18JcYPp018933@spies.com> <20040208210323.GB4400@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: > Good point. When I get home, I hope to be working on some stuff of this > nature (if I can't find a PT08, I'll have to build one; I have a PA60 that > nobody seems to know ever existed that would make a nice platform). Hi, I have PA63 back-plane/box #0205240 here, and a "PA68-F Reader/Punch Control" as well. The guy I bought the latter from, also has drawings for sale in his eBay store. (I have failed to convince him that no-one else will ever want them, and now I may even have created demand for them.) I have never been sure quite what to do with these items; it seems implausible that I'd be able to locate enough stuff to get a typesetter set-up working. Anyone else have bits and pieces for a pdp-8 based typesetting rig? Vince From toresbe at ifi.uio.no Mon Feb 9 13:57:27 2004 From: toresbe at ifi.uio.no (Tore S Bekkedal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:18 2005 Subject: Wire Wrapper needed for PDP-7 Message-ID: <001301c3ef46$f4da4400$88ba9fc3@ra3> >If I understand you correctly, you are saying that major subsystems were >added to the CPU and wired into the backplane by a former user, who removed >these components without regard to its effect on the operability of the >machine before you came into possession of it. That wouldn't surprise me at >all. Many academic and lab shops did extensive custom modifications, like >the famous BBN paging box on the Tenex KA-10s. No, the Oregon PDP is also barely recognizeable. The PDP-7 was originally meant to be scrapped (was laying around) but it was salvaged by Professor Nordhagen, and ccmaniac librarian Knut Hegna (who has some other minis next to the PDP-7) when the new library building was built in 1987. The last trace of usage I have is 1976. >These machines went through multiple >revisions and field ECOs during their lifetime. There was a set of field >maintenance prints issued for the specific revision that a customer had, >which was then kept up to date with the machine. (At least this is true of >the Straight-8 of similar vintage.) I have three sets of wrap lists. My intention (bad idea?) was to wrap an original PDP-7/A, instead of one with ECOs - and later apply any crucial ECOs I came across. (Al, do you have any?) I could probably cook up some program that would give me schedules based on wire lists (if I am understanding the concept of 'schedule' correctly as something describing the order in which the wires are to be wrapped) The PDP-7 ended up with several ADC's, apparently it had a plotter, an IPB, a 'poor man's API', and so on. Some EE students aparently kept it alive during its last days, but gave up, and returned it to the Good Professor which originally bought it, and let me work on it. He put it in storage, and it's now an exhibit. Funny how PDP-7's tend to turn up vacantly sitting in corners, isn't it...? :) >I can't read a word of Norwegian, but from the pictures, it appears that >Norsk Data >made quite a number of interesting machines from 1967 into recent years. Yes, it was a fairly successful machine. I've heard that the first WWW server at CERN actually was an ND machine, which wouldn't surprise me, given the close cooperation the two institutions enjoyed. (I've heard.) I was yesterday at the Norwegian museum of technology, (I may be working with them on another restoration project - IBM 360/370-ish - but that is entirely in the future and no deals have been made yet - if this is happening, I will of course post immediately to cctech ;)) and amongst some neat exhibits (Jaquard loom, IBM 650 (You should have seen me - crawling down, looking at interiors and drum)) I saw a NORD-1. I don't know much about the machine, but I do know that the one 7 was hooked up to had three 9-tracks, 16k core, but not a very good display - the PDP-7 was later used as something of an intelligent terminal and data-gatherer, hooked up to some (apparently brilliant) Italian ADCs, and letting the NORD-1 do the numbercrunching. The NORD-1 used IC's, and came with a line printer, that's about all I know. I do seem to remember a 16-bit word length, though. The NORD-1 was a commercially successful machine, and earned ND quite a lot of money. I believe it was the NORD-100 which really got ND off to a start - but that's from doubleplusvague memory. I'll get around to translating that page :) Back to the wire-wrapping thing: Is it really that bad? There are admittedly a lot of wires on it, but it doesn't seem all too hard (especially with an electric wrapper!) Am I wrong, and am I not weighing the effort correctly? Is it harder than soldering? The pins are not small, they are about 2mm x 1mm from memory measurement. I thank everyone offering me wrappers! Whew! Thanks for all your help, people :) -tsb From coredump at gifford.co.uk Mon Feb 9 16:01:42 2004 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:18 2005 Subject: Sun-3 hardware available, Bristol UK Message-ID: <40280346.9030705@gifford.co.uk> Hi! I've just resubscribed after a long break! It's time for a clear-out here, and I have some Sun hardware to give away. It's not *huge*, but you'll need a largish car for the 3/260. Sun 3/60 with shoebox disk and tape, mono, with monitor and accessories. Sun 3/260 with internal SCSI/EDSI disk, tape, external SMD disk, colour monitor and accessories. I'm in north Bristol, near M4/M5 junction -- BS34 8XB if you want to look it up on Streetmap.co.uk. I'll probably have some more stuff to find a new home for in the next few days/weeks. -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From vcf at siconic.com Mon Feb 9 16:06:07 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:18 2005 Subject: Wire Wrapper needed for PDP-7 In-Reply-To: <001301c3ef46$f4da4400$88ba9fc3@ra3> Message-ID: On Mon, 9 Feb 2004, Tore S Bekkedal wrote: > Back to the wire-wrapping thing: Is it really that bad? There are > admittedly a lot of wires on it, but it doesn't seem all too hard > (especially with an electric wrapper!) Am I wrong, and am I not weighing > the effort correctly? Is it harder than soldering? The pins are not > small, they are about 2mm x 1mm from memory measurement. I thank > everyone offering me wrappers! So many things have been accomplished because people didn't know that it was supposed to be "impossible". Just pretend you didn't hear anything negative about the project and go to it. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Mon Feb 9 16:51:13 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:18 2005 Subject: Sun-3 hardware available, Bristol UK In-Reply-To: <40280346.9030705@gifford.co.uk> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of John Honniball > Sent: 09 February 2004 22:02 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Sun-3 hardware available, Bristol UK > > > Hi! I've just resubscribed after a long break! > Welcome back! I'd wondered where you'd vanished to.... Cheers -- Adrian/Witchy Owner & Webmaster, Binary Dinosaurs www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From vcf at siconic.com Mon Feb 9 16:51:12 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:18 2005 Subject: Video Game Invasion (fwd) Message-ID: Video Game Invasion is a program that I contributed to. I just got this from the production company: This is to let you know that "Video Game Invasion: the History of a Global Obsession" will air on the Game Show Network on Sunday March 21st, at 9 pm (ET/PT). Game Show Network have promised lots of publicity, but in the meantime, please tell your friends! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From esharpe at uswest.net Mon Feb 9 17:52:31 2004 From: esharpe at uswest.net (Ed Sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:18 2005 Subject: Interesting NY Times story... References: Message-ID: <00ae01c3ef67$c8b9de00$ade681ac@aoldsl.net> then you can get really off the computer track and collect old radar jamming equipment from wwII http://www.smecc.org/countermeasures.htm here is what was the start of our collection here at the museum, it has grown vastly since this photo was taken... and of course always looking for more of it! ed sharpe archivist for smecc ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vintage Computer Festival" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Monday, February 09, 2004 10:27 AM Subject: Re: Interesting NY Times story... > On Sun, 8 Feb 2004, evan wrote: > > > His club (www.njarc.org) has about 200 members, and > > watching them have fun with antique radios and other > > ancient technology makes you wonder what people will > > be doing a few decades hence with old cellphones. > > (Notice how primitive the ones from the 90's already > > look?) Lately, for instance, they've been having a > > contest to see who can pick up the most distant radio > > signal on a vintage receiver. When conditions are > > right, noise from Chicago or Canada or Mexico might > > squawk through the classic sets. > > I don't know, will there be parallels like this in the future with modern > gadgets? Stuff today is so inaccessible from a retroist point of view. > The cellular networks 50-75 years from now probably won't support what we > use today, and unless cellular towers will be cheap, abundant, and easy to > store in our garage, we probably won't be setting up our own networks to > see how far we can call for fun. Even then, will this stuff be kept > around like surplus military gear was, or will it be recycled into future > products? Will it even work? Stuff from the past was meant to last, > while stuff we make now is made to break in a year or less so we will be > forced to "upgrade" (a euphemsism for spending more money needlessly). > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage mputers ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > > > From aek at spies.com Mon Feb 9 16:57:41 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:18 2005 Subject: 7 track drive located! Message-ID: <200402092257.i19MvfoA019908@spies.com> Got a call last week from a local vendor who remembered that I was looking for a 7 track drive. He found two (!) as they were going through their inventory. They are EXACTLY what I have been trying to find for a long, long time.. HP7970 tension arm drives with DUAL MODE 7/9 track head assemblies! They are capable of reading anything from 7trk 200bpi to 9trk 1600 bpi tapes. I won't say how much they were (they weren't cheap) but as part of the deal he let me go through some of his head stack spares, and I found 14 dual mode head stacks! (he let me have five of them with the drives) --al (doing the Snoopy dance right now!) From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Feb 9 16:59:32 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:18 2005 Subject: 7 track drive located! In-Reply-To: <200402092257.i19MvfoA019908@spies.com> from "Al Kossow" at Feb 09, 2004 02:57:41 PM Message-ID: <200402092259.i19MxWdv023207@onyx.spiritone.com> > HP7970 tension arm drives with DUAL MODE 7/9 track head assemblies! They are > capable of reading anything from 7trk 200bpi to 9trk 1600 bpi tapes. > > I won't say how much they were (they weren't cheap) but as part of the deal > he let me go through some of his head stack spares, and I found 14 dual mode > head stacks! (he let me have five of them with the drives) > > --al (doing the Snoopy dance right now!) AWSOME!!!!!! Zane From jpl15 at panix.com Mon Feb 9 17:04:58 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:18 2005 Subject: NEC Board question Message-ID: This may or may not be close to the ten-year rule - but anyway: I am having a NEC Pent II computer, very fancy dark blue/charcoal case with a curved front panel running in guides that slides up and down, and the LCD status display, CDROM and Floppy drives all in a removable 'pod' that clips to the op front of the case. This attaches with a connector that is the same as is used nowadays for a SCSI II cable. And there is a similar connector on the card that drives all this stuff (the pod is conneccted thru a ribbon/header) the motherboard has the usual IDE ports and this particular machine boots and runs. It runs Win98, soon to be transmogrified into some dialect of Linux. The only readable info on the card is: Packard Bell NEC (Lo! how the MIghty have fallen!) PB-IRISA-Rev:D PB-0081-1 So I'm wondering if anyone might know the specifics of this, and especially if it is indeed SCSI, or just a case of connector mix-up. Thanks! Cheers John From jpl15 at panix.com Mon Feb 9 17:07:37 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:18 2005 Subject: 7 track drive located! In-Reply-To: <200402092257.i19MvfoA019908@spies.com> References: <200402092257.i19MvfoA019908@spies.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 9 Feb 2004, Al Kossow wrote: > > They are EXACTLY what I have been trying to find for a long, long time.. > > HP7970 tension arm drives with DUAL MODE 7/9 track head assemblies! They are > capable of reading anything from 7trk 200bpi to 9trk 1600 bpi tapes. GGGGGOOOOOOOOOOOOOOAAAAAAALLLLL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Most excellent! Congratulations!!!! Cheers John From r_a_feldman at hotmail.com Mon Feb 9 17:13:41 2004 From: r_a_feldman at hotmail.com (Robert Feldman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:18 2005 Subject: Spam filters Message-ID: Enjoy it while you can. It won't last long: See http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/6/34035.html Bob Sellam Ismail wrote: I finally implemented SpamAssassin on VCF e-mail accounts after trialing it with a personal account for about a month. I've gone from something like 200+ spams a day to almost none. I LOVE SPAMASSASSIN!!! _________________________________________________________________ Keep up with high-tech trends here at "Hook'd on Technology." http://special.msn.com/msnbc/hookedontech.armx From vaxzilla at jarai.org Mon Feb 9 17:28:34 2004 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:18 2005 Subject: 7 track drive located! In-Reply-To: <200402092257.i19MvfoA019908@spies.com> References: <200402092257.i19MvfoA019908@spies.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 9 Feb 2004, Al Kossow wrote: > I won't say how much they were (they weren't cheap) but as part of the deal > he let me go through some of his head stack spares, and I found 14 dual mode > head stacks! (he let me have five of them with the drives) > > --al (doing the Snoopy dance right now!) GIF! -brian. From uban at ubanproductions.com Mon Feb 9 17:36:25 2004 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:18 2005 Subject: 7 track drive located! In-Reply-To: <200402092257.i19MvfoA019908@spies.com> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20040209173604.035ef368@mail.ubanproductions.com> At 02:57 PM 2/9/2004 -0800, you wrote: >Got a call last week from a local vendor who remembered that I was looking >for a 7 track drive. He found two (!) as they were going through their >inventory. > >They are EXACTLY what I have been trying to find for a long, long time.. > >HP7970 tension arm drives with DUAL MODE 7/9 track head assemblies! They are >capable of reading anything from 7trk 200bpi to 9trk 1600 bpi tapes. > >I won't say how much they were (they weren't cheap) but as part of the deal >he let me go through some of his head stack spares, and I found 14 dual mode >head stacks! (he let me have five of them with the drives) > >--al (doing the Snoopy dance right now!) Woo! Glad to hear it... --tom From djg at drs-esg.com Mon Feb 9 17:39:10 2004 From: djg at drs-esg.com (David Gesswein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:19 2005 Subject: Fluke 8100A manual Message-ID: <200402092339.i19NdAm19202@drs-esg.com> Anybody have one they would be willing to copy for this nixie multimeter? Thanks, David Gesswein http://www.pdp8.net/ -- Run an old computer with blinkenlights. From lbickley at bickleywest.com Mon Feb 9 17:43:15 2004 From: lbickley at bickleywest.com (Lyle Bickley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:19 2005 Subject: 7 track drive located! In-Reply-To: <200402092257.i19MvfoA019908@spies.com> References: <200402092257.i19MvfoA019908@spies.com> Message-ID: <200402091543.15785.lbickley@bickleywest.com> Outstanding!!! Lyle On Monday 09 February 2004 14:57, Al Kossow wrote: > Got a call last week from a local vendor who remembered that I was looking > for a 7 track drive. He found two (!) as they were going through their > inventory. > > They are EXACTLY what I have been trying to find for a long, long time.. > > HP7970 tension arm drives with DUAL MODE 7/9 track head assemblies! They > are capable of reading anything from 7trk 200bpi to 9trk 1600 bpi tapes. > > I won't say how much they were (they weren't cheap) but as part of the deal > he let me go through some of his head stack spares, and I found 14 dual > mode head stacks! (he let me have five of them with the drives) > > --al (doing the Snoopy dance right now!) -- Lyle Bickley Bickley Consulting West Inc. http://bickleywest.com "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero" From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Mon Feb 9 18:22:18 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:19 2005 Subject: Yay - new DEC arrival (not *strictly* on topic. Or is it?) Message-ID: Hi folks, Courtesy of a UK university I'm now home to a nice wee Alpha 3000-300LX, which is important to me as it was the machine I taught myself enough to install/maintain/upgrade/troubleshoot DEC OSF/1 and bluff customers back in 1995. Bits of the machine fit the 10 year rule since the chips and cables have 1994 date codes :) In fact wasn't the 300LX released in '94? I can't remember and my Systems and Options catalogues are down in the garage. And it's *cold*! I've a feeling that running Apache on Alpha VMS might be a bit slow, which is a shame, but the machine came will a full set of Tru64 4.0F media so that's my first port of call for running the Binary Dinosaurs website on one of its inhabitants :) Cheers, -- Adrian/Witchy Owner & Webmaster, Binary Dinosaurs www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From vcf at siconic.com Mon Feb 9 18:24:05 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:19 2005 Subject: Spam filters In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 9 Feb 2004, Robert Feldman wrote: > Enjoy it while you can. It won't last long: > > See http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/6/34035.html I agree with Dan Gillmor's assessment (maybe I'm naive). AT&T has the bucks and the clout to go after any spammer that tries to use this technique without license. However, patents being as they are, they can be abused or gotten around. Anyway, I'm not terribly worried. Also, the method seems to only address "duplicate detection", which is but one aspect of spam that SpamAssassin looks for. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From dholland at woh.rr.com Mon Feb 9 20:25:19 2004 From: dholland at woh.rr.com (David Holland) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:19 2005 Subject: Yay - new DEC arrival (not *strictly* on topic. Or is it?) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1076379919.3360.1.camel@crusader.localdomain.home> On Mon, 2004-02-09 at 19:22, Witchy wrote: > Hi folks, > > I've a feeling that running Apache on Alpha VMS might be a bit slow, which > is a shame, but the machine came will a full set of Tru64 4.0F media so > that's my first port of call for running the Binary Dinosaurs website on one > of its inhabitants :) But think of all the script kiddies who won't have a clue what to do with the box.. :-) David > > Cheers, > > -- > Adrian/Witchy > Owner & Webmaster, Binary Dinosaurs > www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum > www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From esharpe at uswest.net Mon Feb 9 20:45:01 2004 From: esharpe at uswest.net (ed sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:19 2005 Subject: 7 track drive located! References: <200402092257.i19MvfoA019908@spies.com> Message-ID: <001501c3ef7f$e4363a30$976a6e44@SONYDIGITALED> awesome Al! are you going to run it on a 2100 , 21mx or interface it to PC? ed sharpe ----- Original Message ----- From: "Al Kossow" To: Sent: Monday, February 09, 2004 3:57 PM Subject: 7 track drive located! > > Got a call last week from a local vendor who remembered that I was looking > for a 7 track drive. He found two (!) as they were going through their inventory. > > They are EXACTLY what I have been trying to find for a long, long time.. > > HP7970 tension arm drives with DUAL MODE 7/9 track head assemblies! They are > capable of reading anything from 7trk 200bpi to 9trk 1600 bpi tapes. > > I won't say how much they were (they weren't cheap) but as part of the deal > he let me go through some of his head stack spares, and I found 14 dual mode > head stacks! (he let me have five of them with the drives) > > --al (doing the Snoopy dance right now!) > > From jwest at classiccmp.org Mon Feb 9 20:47:23 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:19 2005 Subject: 7 track drive located! References: <200402092257.i19MvfoA019908@spies.com> <001501c3ef7f$e4363a30$976a6e44@SONYDIGITALED> Message-ID: <001901c3ef80$38121f70$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> The 7970 mag tape interface is VERY bizarre, not SCSI, not Pertec.... it's an odd odd animal. Not likely to be hooked up to a PC. Jay West ----- Original Message ----- From: "ed sharpe" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Monday, February 09, 2004 8:45 PM Subject: Re: 7 track drive located! > awesome Al! > > are you going to run it on a 2100 , 21mx or interface it to PC? > > ed sharpe > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Al Kossow" > To: > Sent: Monday, February 09, 2004 3:57 PM > Subject: 7 track drive located! > > > > > > Got a call last week from a local vendor who remembered that I was looking > > for a 7 track drive. He found two (!) as they were going through their > inventory. > > > > They are EXACTLY what I have been trying to find for a long, long time.. > > > > HP7970 tension arm drives with DUAL MODE 7/9 track head assemblies! They > are > > capable of reading anything from 7trk 200bpi to 9trk 1600 bpi tapes. > > > > I won't say how much they were (they weren't cheap) but as part of the > deal > > he let me go through some of his head stack spares, and I found 14 dual > mode > > head stacks! (he let me have five of them with the drives) > > > > --al (doing the Snoopy dance right now!) > > > > > > > From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Feb 9 21:05:40 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:19 2005 Subject: Yay - new DEC arrival (not *strictly* on topic. Or is it?) In-Reply-To: from "Witchy" at Feb 10, 2004 12:22:18 AM Message-ID: <200402100305.i1A35eMo030278@onyx.spiritone.com> > I've a feeling that running Apache on Alpha VMS might be a bit slow, which > is a shame, but the machine came will a full set of Tru64 4.0F media so Take a look at WASD, it's what I run on my VMS server (which is admitadly a lot beefier than a 3000/300LX). I'm using a combination of DCL and Perl CGI's to interface with a RDB Database :^) Zane From dittman at dittman.net Mon Feb 9 21:09:42 2004 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:19 2005 Subject: Yay - new DEC arrival (not *strictly* on topic. Or is it?) In-Reply-To: from "Witchy" at Feb 10, 2004 12:22:18 AM Message-ID: <20040210030942.2E4BE7F82@narnia.int.dittman.net> > I've a feeling that running Apache on Alpha VMS might be a bit slow, which > is a shame, but the machine came will a full set of Tru64 4.0F media so > that's my first port of call for running the Binary Dinosaurs website on one > of its inhabitants :) I run Apache on Alpha VMS and it isn't slow. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From freddyboomboom at comcast.net Mon Feb 9 19:53:53 2004 From: freddyboomboom at comcast.net (Andrew Prince) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:19 2005 Subject: Fluke 8100A manual In-Reply-To: <200402092339.i19NdAm19202@drs-esg.com> References: <200402092339.i19NdAm19202@drs-esg.com> Message-ID: <1076378033.2045.4.camel@localhost> On Mon, 2004-02-09 at 18:39, David Gesswein wrote: > Anybody have one they would be willing to copy for this nixie multimeter? > > Thanks, > David Gesswein > http://www.pdp8.net/ -- Run an old computer with blinkenlights. Google gave me this link to some schematics... http://www.mcamafia.de/nixie/nixiegear/nixiegear.htm#04 And Fluke has some manuals here: http://www.fluke.com/support/default.asp Good luck!!! TTFN Andrew From vax3900 at yahoo.com Mon Feb 9 23:18:14 2004 From: vax3900 at yahoo.com (SHAUN RIPLEY) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:19 2005 Subject: How much does a pair of KDA50 cards worth? Message-ID: <20040210051814.64056.qmail@web60701.mail.yahoo.com> I need $40 badly. I am considering selling my KDA50 boards with those internal cables, and a pair of iron covers. Do they worth $40? If not I would like to keep them because without these power consumers my VAX3900 won't boot. Without them the VAX3900 looks less and less like a 3900 though it consists of a bare cage without rack and front door anyway. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html From aek at spies.com Tue Feb 10 00:09:28 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:19 2005 Subject: 7 track drive located! Message-ID: <200402100609.i1A69SLK006888@spies.com> > are you going to run it on a 2100 , 21mx or interface it to PC? The plan is to reproduce the setup Paul Pierce has.. Seven high speed A/D converters off the head preamps and a lot of DSP software. http://www.piercefuller.com/collect/proj.html http://www.piercefuller.com/collect/a7tv.html From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Tue Feb 10 00:38:38 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:19 2005 Subject: Philips MAB8031AH-12P CPU Message-ID: <1076368786.14901.440.camel@weka.localdomain> Some of you guys probably have piles of databooks lying around :-) Can anyone tell me anything about a Philips MAB8031AH-12P CPU? Is it a clone of anything more common? (given the 12MHz clock speed, 40 pin DIP and a mid-80's build date, I doubt it) There's a couple in each of the LVROM players that I'm trying to get working, but I can't find any (accessible) data on the web about them... (the ICs, not the players - I *may* have tracked down service manuals for the latter) cheers Jules From esharpe at uswest.net Tue Feb 10 00:45:08 2004 From: esharpe at uswest.net (ed sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:19 2005 Subject: 7 track drive located! References: <200402100609.i1A69SLK006888@spies.com> Message-ID: <005a01c3efa1$6c6d2050$976a6e44@SONYDIGITALED> looks like a great project Al! best of luck on it! ed! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Al Kossow" To: Sent: Monday, February 09, 2004 11:09 PM Subject: Re: 7 track drive located! > > > are you going to run it on a 2100 , 21mx or interface it to PC? > > The plan is to reproduce the setup Paul Pierce has.. Seven high speed A/D > converters off the head preamps and a lot of DSP software. > > http://www.piercefuller.com/collect/proj.html > http://www.piercefuller.com/collect/a7tv.html > > > From jimmydevice at hotmail.com Mon Feb 9 18:54:11 2004 From: jimmydevice at hotmail.com (Jim Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:19 2005 Subject: 7 track drive located! In-Reply-To: <200402092257.i19MvfoA019908@spies.com> References: <200402092257.i19MvfoA019908@spies.com> Message-ID: <40282BB3.9050507@hotmail.com> Al Kossow wrote: >Got a call last week from a local vendor who remembered that I was looking >for a 7 track drive. He found two (!) as they were going through their inventory. > >They are EXACTLY what I have been trying to find for a long, long time.. > >HP7970 tension arm drives with DUAL MODE 7/9 track head assemblies! They are >capable of reading anything from 7trk 200bpi to 9trk 1600 bpi tapes. > >I won't say how much they were (they weren't cheap) but as part of the deal >he let me go through some of his head stack spares, and I found 14 dual mode >head stacks! (he let me have five of them with the drives) > >--al (doing the Snoopy dance right now!) > > > Sounds like the HOLY GRAIL of tape drives, I guess we know that you'r going to be doing with the rest of your life :-) Jim Davis. Killer rabbit joke omitted. From kbui at choosemfg.com Mon Feb 9 16:18:14 2004 From: kbui at choosemfg.com (Kelly Bui) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:19 2005 Subject: TIL308 Message-ID: Do you have any TIL308? looking for 6 pieces. Kelly From lyosnorezel at yahoo.com Mon Feb 9 16:47:29 2004 From: lyosnorezel at yahoo.com (Lyos Norezel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:19 2005 Subject: Ok folks... BIG problem... LCD screen backlight is dead Message-ID: <20040209224729.23512.qmail@web41711.mail.yahoo.com> Hey ya'll... I have a MAJOR problem here. My laptop (PII, 512MB's ram, 4.1GB HD) has an LCD screen in which the backlight has died. No warning just died ten minutes into a computer session. Tried restarting, tried taking it apart, jimmiing switches, etc... took it down to it's bare components and reassembled... NADA... nothing works. Any ideas? can the backlight be replaced? Could a replacement backlight be jerryrigged into place? Really need this laptop... I use it everyday... but can't afford a replacement LCD. Any advice? Ideas? HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Lyos Gemini Norezel --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online From TCHarding at compuserve.com Mon Feb 9 10:20:59 2004 From: TCHarding at compuserve.com (Tom Harding) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:19 2005 Subject: MicroHelp Message-ID: <200402091121_MC3-1-6E73-E30D@compuserve.com> Marvin, I would be very pleased to have item 4, under Software for Sale from your file 004196.html. 4. $5.00 QB/Pro Vol 7 - QB Optimizer, Microhelp Is it possible to give you credit card details, including Post & P. to the UK? Yours faithfully, Tom Harding New House Farm Sheering Lower Road Sawbridgeworth Herts. CM21 9LE United Kingdom From tgore at pbrnc.com Mon Feb 9 12:11:35 2004 From: tgore at pbrnc.com (Todd Gore) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:19 2005 Subject: DG nova 4 Message-ID: <001e01c3ef38$278599e0$6501a8c0@bench02> Do you still have any boards for the Data General Nova 4? From tomj at wps.com Tue Feb 10 02:08:39 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:19 2005 Subject: Control Data Computer At $66.00 In-Reply-To: <200402091345328.SM00900@bobdev> References: <200402091345328.SM00900@bobdev> Message-ID: <1076399786.1619.15.camel@fiche> Wow. Good story on Plato/CDC. In these days of image/marketing-driven drivel it's good to recall these sorts of deeply, seriously strange systems and people. Big Iron indeed! On Mon, 2004-02-09 at 10:46, Bob Lafleur wrote: > > Is the server-side software still around anywhere? Just what was the > server (some CDC mainframe I assume)? Can it be emulated? Running on the > original hardware would of course be preferable but mayeb not practical. > > The servers ran on CDC mainframes. There are several emulation projects "in > progress", most noteably is Tom Hunter's Desktop Cyber. The emulator is > available for free, but the OS software is harder to get. There is a handful > of people who have been "allowed" to use older versions of the OS software > for hobbyist use by the current copyright holder (Syntegra), but this is not > an "everyone who wants it can get it" thing. Also, I'm not sure if any > versions of Plato OS are included. Tom Hunter does claim that the Plato OS > will run on his emulator, but he has not released the OS. > > The CDC "cyber" mainframes are VERY complex, much harder to emulate than > other systems. And the OS's are cryptic, at best. > > Real CDC "cyber" mainframe hardware is very rare. There is one system > operating and open to the general public for use (not running Plato, but > running NOS) at www.cray-cyber.org. > > I do know that some of the (very intelligent) individuals involved in the > Cyber emulation projects are quite interested in making Plato work. I > believe the hurdles are (1) Finding surviving copies of the OS tapes and > courseware, (2) Emulating the hardware to run them (mostly working now I'd > guess), and (3) getting permission to actually use the software, as the > Plato trademark or whatever is still owned by a company that isn't too free > about it's use. > > Hopefully some of this information is helpful. > > - Bob From tomj at wps.com Tue Feb 10 02:17:38 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:19 2005 Subject: Wire Wrapper needed for PDP-7 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1076400330.1619.19.camel@fiche> On Mon, 2004-02-09 at 14:06, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > So many things have been accomplished because people didn't know that it > was supposed to be "impossible". Just pretend you didn't hear anything > negative about the project and go to it. Absolutely! It just raises the value of the result. From doc at mdrconsult.com Tue Feb 10 02:07:39 2004 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:19 2005 Subject: Ok folks... BIG problem... LCD screen backlight is dead In-Reply-To: <20040209224729.23512.qmail@web41711.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040209224729.23512.qmail@web41711.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <31B38CD5-5BA0-11D8-9AC6-000A95A6B97A@mdrconsult.com> On Feb 9, 2004, at 4:47 PM, Lyos Norezel wrote: > Hey ya'll... I have a MAJOR problem here. My laptop (PII, 512MB's ram, > 4.1GB HD) has an LCD screen in which the backlight has died. No > warning just died ten minutes into a computer session. Tried > restarting, tried taking it apart, jimmiing switches, etc... took it > down to it's bare components and reassembled... NADA... nothing works. > Any ideas? can the backlight be replaced? Could a replacement > backlight be jerryrigged into place? Really need this laptop... I use > it everyday... but can't afford a replacement LCD. Any advice? Ideas? > HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It probably just wants more volts. Sorry, Lyos, I just couldn't leave that one lying there. ;) Please don't use anything other than the approved power source with your laptop. There are replacement backlights for laptops around that age on eBay all the time. Of course, when you need one, they're either the wrong model, or in another galaxy. Both IBM and Dell usually have replacement parts, if you're willing to spend a lot of cash. The same probably goes for Toshiba, HPaq, etc, but I haven't needed parts from them. Doc From tomj at wps.com Tue Feb 10 02:23:07 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:19 2005 Subject: Philips MAB8031AH-12P CPU In-Reply-To: <1076368786.14901.440.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <1076368786.14901.440.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <1076400659.1619.24.camel@fiche> Without looking I can tell you it's an (Intel) 8031, an 8-bit microcontroller. Very 80's. Just hope it's not a masked PROM or blown-fuse programmed type, can't see the code without an e-microscope or something. On Mon, 2004-02-09 at 15:19, Jules Richardson wrote: > Some of you guys probably have piles of databooks lying around :-) > > Can anyone tell me anything about a Philips MAB8031AH-12P CPU? Is it a > clone of anything more common? (given the 12MHz clock speed, 40 pin DIP > and a mid-80's build date, I doubt it) > > There's a couple in each of the LVROM players that I'm trying to get > working, but I can't find any (accessible) data on the web about them... > (the ICs, not the players - I *may* have tracked down service manuals > for the latter) > > cheers > > Jules From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue Feb 10 02:14:07 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:19 2005 Subject: Philips MAB8031AH-12P CPU In-Reply-To: Jules Richardson "Philips MAB8031AH-12P CPU" (Feb 9, 23:19) References: <1076368786.14901.440.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <10402100814.ZM24191@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Feb 9, 23:19, Jules Richardson wrote: > Some of you guys probably have piles of databooks lying around :-) > > Can anyone tell me anything about a Philips MAB8031AH-12P CPU? Is it a > clone of anything more common? (given the 12MHz clock speed, 40 pin DIP > and a mid-80's build date, I doubt it) I don't need a data book for that one :-) It's the base member of the Intel 8051 family, also known as the MCS-51 family, which is an enhanced version of the 8048 family of microcontrollers. IIRC it has some extra instructions and addressing modes. The 8031 is the version without on-board ROM. Philips was one of several second-sources for it. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From dan_williams at ntlworld.com Tue Feb 10 03:27:04 2004 From: dan_williams at ntlworld.com (Dan Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:19 2005 Subject: Yay - new DEC arrival (not *strictly* on topic. Or is it?) In-Reply-To: <200402100305.i1A35eMo030278@onyx.spiritone.com> References: <200402100305.i1A35eMo030278@onyx.spiritone.com> Message-ID: <4028A3E8.6000308@ntlworld.com> Zane H. Healy wrote: >>I've a feeling that running Apache on Alpha VMS might be a bit slow, which >>is a shame, but the machine came will a full set of Tru64 4.0F media so >> >> > >Take a look at WASD, it's what I run on my VMS server (which is admitadly a >lot beefier than a 3000/300LX). I'm using a combination of DCL and Perl >CGI's to interface with a RDB Database :^) > > Zane > > > I use wasd on a vax 4000/500 and it's pretty quick, although it's all plain html Dan From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Tue Feb 10 03:43:00 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:19 2005 Subject: Yay - new DEC arrival (not *strictly* on topic. Or is it?) In-Reply-To: <20040210030942.2E4BE7F82@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Eric Dittman > Sent: 10 February 2004 03:10 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Yay - new DEC arrival (not *strictly* on topic. > Or is it?) > > > I've a feeling that running Apache on Alpha VMS might be a > bit slow, > > which is a shame, but the machine came will a full set of > Tru64 4.0F > > media so that's my first port of call for running the > Binary Dinosaurs > > website on one of its inhabitants :) > > I run Apache on Alpha VMS and it isn't slow. I'm going to install it today; like David says it'll confuse the 5kr1pt k1dd135 more than ever. I was nosing around HPs website last night and even PHP is available for Alpha VMS 7.2-2 and above, which surprised me a bit....dunno why. All I have to do then is work out MySQL access for some of the backend stuff - ATM everything runs on a RedHat7 box. Cheers -- Adrian/Witchy Owner & Webmaster, Binary Dinosaurs www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From lists at microvax.org Tue Feb 10 03:50:49 2004 From: lists at microvax.org (meltie) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:19 2005 Subject: Yay - new DEC arrival (not *strictly* on topic. Or is it?) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200402100950.49886.lists@microvax.org> On Tuesday 10 February 2004 09:43, Witchy wrote: > > I run Apache on Alpha VMS and it isn't slow. > > I'm going to install it today; like David says it'll confuse the 5kr1pt > k1dd135 more than ever. I was nosing around HPs website last night and > even PHP is available for Alpha VMS 7.2-2 and above, which surprised me > a bit....dunno why. All I have to do then is work out MySQL access for > some of the backend stuff - ATM everything runs on a RedHat7 box. Do it. I always wanted to put a MicroVAX 3100 into a colo just to see the tech's faces when they asked where to plug the monitor and keyboard in :) alex/melt From gordonjcp at gjcp.net Tue Feb 10 03:54:49 2004 From: gordonjcp at gjcp.net (Gordon JC Pearce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:19 2005 Subject: Yay - new DEC arrival (not *strictly* on topic. Or is it?) In-Reply-To: <4028A3E8.6000308@ntlworld.com> References: <200402100305.i1A35eMo030278@onyx.spiritone.com> <4028A3E8.6000308@ntlworld.com> Message-ID: <1076406186.3178.45.camel@pluto> On Tue, 2004-02-10 at 09:27, Dan Williams wrote: > Zane H. Healy wrote: > > >>I've a feeling that running Apache on Alpha VMS might be a bit slow, which > >>is a shame, but the machine came will a full set of Tru64 4.0F media so > >> > >> > > > >Take a look at WASD, it's what I run on my VMS server (which is admitadly a > >lot beefier than a 3000/300LX). I'm using a combination of DCL and Perl > >CGI's to interface with a RDB Database :^) > > > > Zane > > > > > > > I use wasd on a vax 4000/500 and it's pretty quick, although it's all > plain html > > Dan > You could try thttpd, which is fairly light. Look on freshmeat.net for http servers. There's one called "micro httpd", which apparently is 150 lines! Gordon From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Tue Feb 10 04:42:32 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:19 2005 Subject: Yay - new DEC arrival (not *strictly* on topic. Or is it?) In-Reply-To: <200402100950.49886.lists@microvax.org> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of meltie > Sent: 10 February 2004 09:51 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: Yay - new DEC arrival (not *strictly* on topic. > Or is it?) > > Do it. I always wanted to put a MicroVAX 3100 into a colo > just to see the tech's faces when they asked where to plug > the monitor and keyboard in :) > Hehe! I've just found out that MySQL 4.0.13 has been ported so I've got all the bits necessary.....now where did I put my box o'cables for plugging in the RRD42.... Cheers -- Adrian/Witchy Owner & Webmaster, Binary Dinosaurs www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From huw.davies at kerberos.davies.net.au Tue Feb 10 07:20:35 2004 From: huw.davies at kerberos.davies.net.au (Huw Davies) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:19 2005 Subject: Yay - new DEC arrival (not *strictly* on topic. Or is it?) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 10 Feb 2004, at 20:43, Witchy wrote: > > I'm going to install it today; like David says it'll confuse the 5kr1pt > k1dd135 more than ever. I was nosing around HPs website last night and > even > PHP is available for Alpha VMS 7.2-2 and above, which surprised me a > bit....dunno why. All I have to do then is work out MySQL access for > some of > the backend stuff - ATM everything runs on a RedHat7 box. You do know that MySQL runs under OpenVMS these days? Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@kerberos.davies.net.au Melbourne | "If soccer was meant to be played in the Australia | air, the sky would be painted green" From allain at panix.com Tue Feb 10 08:44:22 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:19 2005 Subject: NEC Laptop power leads References: Message-ID: <008c01c3efe4$5fd851a0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> I rescued a few nice bits at the recycle center this weekend, the computer day comes only once a month. at least one is even on topic (stamped1993): NEC UltraLiteVERSA (PC-430-1521), which states 13.5VDC on the label but the power input jack is four pins. Anybody which two to choose? John A. From travel at itl.net Tue Feb 10 06:43:35 2004 From: travel at itl.net (Trevor Beckford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:19 2005 Subject: OKIDATA OL830 LASER JET PRINTER - ERROR ENGINE FAN PROBLEM Message-ID: <000701c3efde$cecb1620$a86c3439@colbacks.com> Did you ever get to resolve your Oki Printer problem??? Mine has just started doing exactly the same thing and can't get any sense out of local Oki engineer!! Kindest Regards Trevor Beckford MANAGING DIRECTOR Colbacks Travel 31 Gloucester Street St Helier, Jersey JE2 3QR Tel:(44) 1534 700500 Fax:(44) 1534 700598 From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue Feb 10 09:03:21 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:19 2005 Subject: 7 track drive located! References: <200402100609.i1A69SLK006888@spies.com> Message-ID: <00e301c3efe7$0640cde0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Al wrote... > The plan is to reproduce the setup Paul Pierce has.. Seven high speed A/D > converters off the head preamps and a lot of DSP software. > http://www.piercefuller.com/collect/a7tv.html That is just way too cool. Ya'll rock! :) --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From waltje at pdp11.nl Tue Feb 10 09:34:20 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:19 2005 Subject: Yay - new DEC arrival (not *strictly* on topic. Or is it?) In-Reply-To: <1076379919.3360.1.camel@crusader.localdomain.home> Message-ID: On Mon, 9 Feb 2004, David Holland wrote: > But think of all the script kiddies who won't have a clue what to do > with the box.. That is exactly why I *still* run critical or security-sensitive stuff on such platforms. It leaves those kiddies with a severe headache. :) --f From waltje at pdp11.nl Tue Feb 10 09:35:13 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:19 2005 Subject: Yay - new DEC arrival (not *strictly* on topic. Or is it?) In-Reply-To: <20040210030942.2E4BE7F82@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 9 Feb 2004, Eric Dittman wrote: > I run Apache on Alpha VMS and it isn't slow. Depends on the hardware, Eric... a 300LX isnt, um, spiffy. --f From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Tue Feb 10 09:59:32 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:19 2005 Subject: Yay - new DEC arrival (not *strictly* on topic. Or is it?) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Fred N. van Kempen > Sent: 10 February 2004 15:35 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: Yay - new DEC arrival (not *strictly* on topic. > Or is it?) > > On Mon, 9 Feb 2004, Eric Dittman wrote: > > > I run Apache on Alpha VMS and it isn't slow. > Depends on the hardware, Eric... a 300LX isnt, um, spiffy. It's the fastest machine I've got that'll run VMS and Apache/PHP/MySQL though, until the University I got it from retires some DS10s in the next year or so :) Nothing's happened yet anyway 'cos I can't find big enough disks to install apart from a Compaq UltraSCSI 4 gb job that I'm sure I retired from the existing webserver 'cos it was getting noisy and I'd just got some spanky 18gb jobs.....the 4gb drive needs a cable and a wide/narrow converter before I can install it. I could cluster it with my MV3100 but part of the exercise is to reduce the power consumption in the computer room - something I know you don't have a problem with :D Cheers -- Adrian/Witchy Owner & Webmaster, Binary Dinosaurs www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Tue Feb 10 10:02:03 2004 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (classiccmp@vintage-computer.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:19 2005 Subject: A Familiar Face Message-ID: <.206.184.248.70.1076428923.squirrel@login.pegasus.lunarpages.com> It's always nice to open up the paper and see a familiar face. I was perusing the San Jose Mercury News this morning and came upon a nice article smack-dab in the middle of the front page of the Business section. The article was about Bruce Damer's DigiBarn. Read it at http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/business/7917764.htm Erik Klein www.vintage-computer.com www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum The Vintage Computer Forum From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Tue Feb 10 10:10:31 2004 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (classiccmp@vintage-computer.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:19 2005 Subject: DATA I/O PROM Programmer Message-ID: <.206.184.248.70.1076429431.squirrel@login.pegasus.lunarpages.com> Is anyone familiar with a DATA I/O MPD 60A Programmer? There is one for sale that I'm thinking about but I have no idea what proms it can handle, etc. A Google search turned up a goose egg. Any help would be appreciated. Erik Klein www.vintage-computer.com www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum The Vintage Computer Forum From KVanMersbergen at RandMcNally.com Tue Feb 10 10:30:38 2004 From: KVanMersbergen at RandMcNally.com (Van Mersbergen, Ken) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:19 2005 Subject: Got a DEC 2000 Alpha server, need help Message-ID: Hey all, I got a DEC 2000 Alpha server and it is working great! It has VMS 5.2 installed on it and that's where I'm stuck. Since I don't have a login user name or password I can't really do anything with it. Is there a way to "hack" VMS so I can get in? Or do I just need to reinstall VMS and start from scratch? -Ken V. *************************************************************** This E-mail is confidential. It should not be read, copied, disclosed or used by any person other than the intended recipient. Unauthorized use, disclosure or copying by whatever medium is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this E-mail in error, please contact the sender immediately and delete the E-mail from your system. *************************************************************** From curt at atarimuseum.com Tue Feb 10 10:37:30 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:19 2005 Subject: Got a DEC 2000 Alpha server, need help In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <402908CA.2040901@atarimuseum.com> The older VMS 3.x used to have some holes in it. Try logging in: field field test test system system See if the backdoors are still open, otherwise you'll have to reinstall. You 2K have a CD-rom? I will burn copies of the OpenVMS 7.3 Curt Van Mersbergen, Ken wrote: >Hey all, > >I got a DEC 2000 Alpha server and it is working great! > >It has VMS 5.2 installed on it and that's where I'm stuck. > >Since I don't have a login user name or password I can't really do anything >with it. > >Is there a way to "hack" VMS so I can get in? > >Or do I just need to reinstall VMS and start from scratch? > > > >-Ken V. > > >*************************************************************** >This E-mail is confidential. It should not be read, copied, disclosed or >used by any person other than the intended recipient. Unauthorized use, >disclosure or copying by whatever medium is strictly prohibited and may be >unlawful. If you have received this E-mail in error, please contact the >sender immediately and delete the E-mail from your system. >*************************************************************** > > > -- Curt Vendel & Karl Morris ----------------------------------------------------------------------- The Atari Museum http://www.atarimuseum.com The Atari Explorer http://www.atari-explorer.com From curt at atarimuseum.com Tue Feb 10 10:41:34 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:19 2005 Subject: Got a DEC 2000 Alpha server, need help In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <402909BE.6020603@atarimuseum.com> Ken do you have a DECUS account? You're gonna need to get a license for Hobbyist VMS, I think membership is like $90 Curt Van Mersbergen, Ken wrote: >Hey all, > >I got a DEC 2000 Alpha server and it is working great! > >It has VMS 5.2 installed on it and that's where I'm stuck. > >Since I don't have a login user name or password I can't really do anything >with it. > >Is there a way to "hack" VMS so I can get in? > >Or do I just need to reinstall VMS and start from scratch? > > > >-Ken V. > > >*************************************************************** >This E-mail is confidential. It should not be read, copied, disclosed or >used by any person other than the intended recipient. Unauthorized use, >disclosure or copying by whatever medium is strictly prohibited and may be >unlawful. If you have received this E-mail in error, please contact the >sender immediately and delete the E-mail from your system. >*************************************************************** > > > -- Curt Vendel & Karl Morris ----------------------------------------------------------------------- The Atari Museum http://www.atarimuseum.com The Atari Explorer http://www.atari-explorer.com From lists at microvax.org Tue Feb 10 10:54:47 2004 From: lists at microvax.org (meltie) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:19 2005 Subject: Got a DEC 2000 Alpha server, need help In-Reply-To: <402908CA.2040901@atarimuseum.com> References: <402908CA.2040901@atarimuseum.com> Message-ID: <200402101654.47661.lists@microvax.org> On Tuesday 10 February 2004 16:37, Curt Vendel wrote: > The older VMS 3.x used to have some holes in it. > > Try logging in: > > field > field > > test > test > > system > system > > See if the backdoors are still open, otherwise you'll have to > reinstall. You 2K have a CD-rom? I will burn copies of the OpenVMS > 7.3 Er guys, it's not magically got any harder since I used to do it - RTFM: http://wwwvms.mppmu.mpg.de/vmsdoc/vmsfaq/vmsfaq_005.html#mgmt5 basically: >>>b -flags 0,1 Once at the SYSBOOT prompt: SET/STARTUP OPA0: SET WINDOW_SYSTEM 0 SET WRITESYSPARAMS 0 CONTINUE At the $ prompt: $ SPAWN $ @SYS$SYSTEM:STARTUP $ SET DEFAULT SYS$SYSTEM: ! or wherever SYSUAF.DAT resides $ RUN SYS$SYSTEM:AUTHORIZE MODIFY SYSTEM /PASSWORD=newpassword EXIT then reboot. alex/melt From KVanMersbergen at RandMcNally.com Tue Feb 10 11:13:14 2004 From: KVanMersbergen at RandMcNally.com (Van Mersbergen, Ken) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:19 2005 Subject: Got a DEC 2000 Alpha server, need help Message-ID: Curt- Yes, this has a built in CD-ROM drive with a caddy! All I need is a copy of the CD. I will see if the backdoors are open though... -Ken V. -----Original Message----- From: Curt Vendel [mailto:curt@atarimuseum.com] Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2004 10:38 AM To: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: Got a DEC 2000 Alpha server, need help The older VMS 3.x used to have some holes in it. Try logging in: field field test test system system See if the backdoors are still open, otherwise you'll have to reinstall. You 2K have a CD-rom? I will burn copies of the OpenVMS 7.3 Curt Van Mersbergen, Ken wrote: >Hey all, > >I got a DEC 2000 Alpha server and it is working great! > >It has VMS 5.2 installed on it and that's where I'm stuck. > >Since I don't have a login user name or password I can't really do anything >with it. > >Is there a way to "hack" VMS so I can get in? > >Or do I just need to reinstall VMS and start from scratch? > > > >-Ken V. > > >*************************************************************** >This E-mail is confidential. It should not be read, copied, disclosed or >used by any person other than the intended recipient. Unauthorized use, >disclosure or copying by whatever medium is strictly prohibited and may be >unlawful. If you have received this E-mail in error, please contact the >sender immediately and delete the E-mail from your system. >*************************************************************** > > > -- Curt Vendel & Karl Morris ----------------------------------------------------------------------- The Atari Museum http://www.atarimuseum.com The Atari Explorer http://www.atari-explorer.com *************************************************************** This E-mail is confidential. It should not be read, copied, disclosed or used by any person other than the intended recipient. Unauthorized use, disclosure or copying by whatever medium is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this E-mail in error, please contact the sender immediately and delete the E-mail from your system. *************************************************************** From KVanMersbergen at RandMcNally.com Tue Feb 10 11:13:53 2004 From: KVanMersbergen at RandMcNally.com (Van Mersbergen, Ken) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:19 2005 Subject: Got a DEC 2000 Alpha server, need help Message-ID: Curt- Yes I think I do, I just never got a copy of the software.. -Ken V. -----Original Message----- From: Curt Vendel [mailto:curt@atarimuseum.com] Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2004 10:42 AM To: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: Got a DEC 2000 Alpha server, need help Ken do you have a DECUS account? You're gonna need to get a license for Hobbyist VMS, I think membership is like $90 Curt Van Mersbergen, Ken wrote: >Hey all, > >I got a DEC 2000 Alpha server and it is working great! > >It has VMS 5.2 installed on it and that's where I'm stuck. > >Since I don't have a login user name or password I can't really do anything >with it. > >Is there a way to "hack" VMS so I can get in? > >Or do I just need to reinstall VMS and start from scratch? > > > >-Ken V. > > >*************************************************************** >This E-mail is confidential. It should not be read, copied, disclosed or >used by any person other than the intended recipient. Unauthorized use, >disclosure or copying by whatever medium is strictly prohibited and may be >unlawful. If you have received this E-mail in error, please contact the >sender immediately and delete the E-mail from your system. >*************************************************************** > > > -- Curt Vendel & Karl Morris ----------------------------------------------------------------------- The Atari Museum http://www.atarimuseum.com The Atari Explorer http://www.atari-explorer.com *************************************************************** This E-mail is confidential. It should not be read, copied, disclosed or used by any person other than the intended recipient. Unauthorized use, disclosure or copying by whatever medium is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this E-mail in error, please contact the sender immediately and delete the E-mail from your system. *************************************************************** From dittman at dittman.net Tue Feb 10 11:21:35 2004 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:20 2005 Subject: Got a DEC 2000 Alpha server, need help In-Reply-To: <402909BE.6020603@atarimuseum.com> from "Curt Vendel" at Feb 10, 2004 11:41:34 AM Message-ID: <20040210172135.70B017F82@narnia.int.dittman.net> > Ken do you have a DECUS account? You're gonna need to get a license > for Hobbyist VMS, I think membership is like $90 You can join Encompass at the free associate level if you just was to get the OpenVMS Hobbyist licenses. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From jpl15 at panix.com Tue Feb 10 11:23:46 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:20 2005 Subject: Got a DEC 2000 Alpha server, need help In-Reply-To: <200402101654.47661.lists@microvax.org> References: <402908CA.2040901@atarimuseum.com> <200402101654.47661.lists@microvax.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 10 Feb 2004, meltie wrote: > On Tuesday 10 February 2004 16:37, Curt Vendel wrote: > > The older VMS 3.x used to have some holes in it. [snip] > Er guys, it's not magically got any harder since I used to do it - RTFM: > http://wwwvms.mppmu.mpg.de/vmsdoc/vmsfaq/vmsfaq_005.html#mgmt5 > > basically: > >>>b -flags 0,1 etc... this is exactly the procedure I took to 'break in' to my VAXStation3100 - it worked perfectly the first time... Cheerz John From dittman at dittman.net Tue Feb 10 11:42:20 2004 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:20 2005 Subject: Yay - new DEC arrival (not *strictly* on topic. Or is it?) In-Reply-To: from "Fred N. van Kempen" at Feb 10, 2004 04:35:13 PM Message-ID: <20040210174220.B54AD7F82@narnia.int.dittman.net> > > I run Apache on Alpha VMS and it isn't slow. > Depends on the hardware, Eric... a 300LX isnt, um, spiffy. No, but unless he's got a lot of people hitting the website that shouldn't be a problem. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From pat at computer-refuge.org Tue Feb 10 11:45:23 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:20 2005 Subject: New acquisitions, looking for stuff Message-ID: <200402101245.23776.pat@computer-refuge.org> Found some "semi-interesting" machines this week: - IBM PC/AT with all IBM components, nearly pristine shape excluding some scratches on the bottom; only missing a couple of screws and the hard drive. It's got the real-deal IBM 5.25" floppy and 3.5" floppy drives (1200KB/DSHD and 720KB/DSDD, right?) - IBM PS/2 Model 90, missing hard drive and RAM, but I should be able to replace those with other parts. I'm hoping to get OS/2 2.1 running on this. And, something a bit more interesting which I actually "paid money" for: - DEC VAX 11/750 with 8MB ram, floating point accelerator, 1kW PCS version of the microcode store card, Massbuss and two Unibus adaptor cards, and the onboard unibus is complete with a TU80K-CP TU80 controller, DMF32 async + printer port card, and DZ11-A serial card. A question about the TU80K-CP: I've heard that it's a DEC re-badged version of a DILOG PERTEC card, with custom firmware so that it only will talk to a TU80. Does anyone have the DILOG firmware that I can put onto it to make it talk to a "standard" PERTEC 9track tape drive? Also, I'm looking for 1) UNIBUS ethernet card - DEUNA or DELUA or similar 2) Different firmware for the TU80K, or a TU80 within a couple hours of here or a different PERTEC card... Actually I might have what I need for the card already..hmm. But I still need to get a drive for it, anyhow. 3) An UNIBUS SMD disk interface and/or ST506 disk interface 4) RL11 interface (RL02/RL01 drive controller) Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Feb 10 11:53:39 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:20 2005 Subject: Yay - new DEC arrival (not *strictly* on topic. Or is it?) In-Reply-To: <20040210174220.B54AD7F82@narnia.int.dittman.net> References: <20040210174220.B54AD7F82@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: > > > I run Apache on Alpha VMS and it isn't slow. >> Depends on the hardware, Eric... a 300LX isnt, um, spiffy. > >No, but unless he's got a lot of people hitting the website that >shouldn't be a problem. True, but he's talking about Apache, MySQL, and I believe PHP. All together, that could be painful. I think the key thing will be ensuring that the system has enough RAM and to try to keep it from swapping. The one good thing about a 3000/300LX is that it takes 72-pin True Parity RAM. I'd recommend maxing it if at all possible. Pentium Pro servers can be a good source of RAM. Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From TRASH3 at splab.cas.neu.edu Tue Feb 10 12:49:23 2004 From: TRASH3 at splab.cas.neu.edu (TRASH3@splab.cas.neu.edu) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:20 2005 Subject: Got a DEC 2000 Alpha server, need help Message-ID: <040210134923.2b35a@splab.cas.neu.edu> Yes, if you can (and should be able to) get a console prompt, the method I used was to do SET UAFALT 1 CONTINUE which set the authorize file to the alternate, which on our systems did not exist. Then when you enter system as the login id, any password works. I did not know about the method of setting the console to startup, it sounds like another, better way. In my way, you have to play around in sysgen and swap the authorize files around after you get on, but still, any port in a storm. joe heck From dan_williams at ntlworld.com Tue Feb 10 11:58:32 2004 From: dan_williams at ntlworld.com (Dan Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:20 2005 Subject: Got a DEC 2000 Alpha server, need help In-Reply-To: <20040210172135.70B017F82@narnia.int.dittman.net> References: <20040210172135.70B017F82@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <40291BC8.8030409@ntlworld.com> Eric Dittman wrote: >>Ken do you have a DECUS account? You're gonna need to get a license >>for Hobbyist VMS, I think membership is like $90 >> >> > >You can join Encompass at the free associate level if you just was to >get the OpenVMS Hobbyist licenses. > > Is that a new thing, I've been paying (decus) for the last three years just for licenses. Dan From lists at microvax.org Tue Feb 10 12:02:06 2004 From: lists at microvax.org (meltie) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:20 2005 Subject: New acquisitions, looking for stuff In-Reply-To: <200402101245.23776.pat@computer-refuge.org> References: <200402101245.23776.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: <200402101802.07106.lists@microvax.org> On Tuesday 10 February 2004 17:45, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > - DEC VAX 11/750 with 8MB ram, floating point accelerator, 1kW PCS > version of the microcode store card, Massbuss and two Unibus adaptor > cards, and the onboard unibus is complete with a TU80K-CP TU80 > controller, DMF32 async + printer port card, and DZ11-A serial card. Good catch! :) alex/melt From lbickley at bickleywest.com Tue Feb 10 12:05:24 2004 From: lbickley at bickleywest.com (Lyle Bickley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:20 2005 Subject: New acquisitions, looking for stuff In-Reply-To: <200402101245.23776.pat@computer-refuge.org> References: <200402101245.23776.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: <200402101005.24188.lbickley@bickleywest.com> What a great find! Good for you! Lyle On Tuesday 10 February 2004 09:45, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > - DEC VAX 11/750 with 8MB ram, floating point accelerator, 1kW PCS > version of the microcode store card, Massbuss and two Unibus adaptor > cards, and the onboard unibus is complete with a TU80K-CP TU80 > controller, DMF32 async + printer port card, and DZ11-A serial card. > -- Lyle Bickley Bickley Consulting West Inc. http://bickleywest.com "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero" From dittman at dittman.net Tue Feb 10 12:10:30 2004 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:20 2005 Subject: Got a DEC 2000 Alpha server, need help In-Reply-To: <40291BC8.8030409@ntlworld.com> from "Dan Williams" at Feb 10, 2004 05:58:32 PM Message-ID: <20040210181030.761A17F82@narnia.int.dittman.net> > >>Ken do you have a DECUS account? You're gonna need to get a license > >>for Hobbyist VMS, I think membership is like $90 > >> > >> > > > >You can join Encompass at the free associate level if you just was to > >get the OpenVMS Hobbyist licenses. > > > > > Is that a new thing, I've been paying (decus) for the last three years > just for licenses. DECUS or Encompass? Where are you located? -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From dan_williams at ntlworld.com Tue Feb 10 12:23:11 2004 From: dan_williams at ntlworld.com (Dan Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:20 2005 Subject: Got a DEC 2000 Alpha server, need help In-Reply-To: <20040210181030.761A17F82@narnia.int.dittman.net> References: <20040210181030.761A17F82@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <4029218F.20501@ntlworld.com> Eric Dittman wrote: >>>>DECUS or Encompass? Where are you located? >>>> >>>> Decus (well not know), in the UK Dan From arcarlini at iee.org Tue Feb 10 12:30:20 2004 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:20 2005 Subject: Got a DEC 2000 Alpha server, need help In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <003501c3f003$fd18b990$5b01a8c0@athlon> > I got a DEC 2000 Alpha server and it is working great! Useful box: it will run OpenVMS, Digital Unix and Windows NT. (And it just about meets the 10 year rule :0) > It has VMS 5.2 installed on it and that's where I'm stuck. I expect you mean V6.2 (which is about 6-8 years later than V5.2 and supports on Alpha, which V5.2 does not). The OpenVMS FAQ will tell you how to break in and change the password. Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From arcarlini at iee.org Tue Feb 10 12:32:02 2004 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:20 2005 Subject: Got a DEC 2000 Alpha server, need help In-Reply-To: <402908CA.2040901@atarimuseum.com> Message-ID: <003601c3f004$36bd58e0$5b01a8c0@athlon> > The older VMS 3.x used to have some holes in it. I'm pretty sure that those defaults were all removed in V4.0 (about 1984-6) and if not, they were gone by V5.0 (still late 1980s). They found that people just didn't bother reading the manuals that told you to change these. Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From arcarlini at iee.org Tue Feb 10 12:34:30 2004 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:20 2005 Subject: Got a DEC 2000 Alpha server, need help In-Reply-To: <40291BC8.8030409@ntlworld.com> Message-ID: <003701c3f004$8f85ec80$5b01a8c0@athlon> > Is that a new thing, I've been paying (decus) for the last > three years > just for licenses. Far be it for me to suggest that you cease to support a fine organisation, but if all you want are the Hobbyist licences, sign up for associate membership with the US DECUS, wait for the request to be granted and then request the licences. Worked fine for me (in the UK too). Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From cheri-post at web.de Tue Feb 10 12:50:02 2004 From: cheri-post at web.de (Pierre Gebhardt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:20 2005 Subject: VAX 4000 acting as Webserver ? Message-ID: <200402101850.i1AIo2Q26808@mailgate5.cinetic.de> Hi all ! Just a question which I'm quite curious about: Is it possible to use my VAX 4000/200 as a web-server ? That way, I could provide my future site about my collection by using parts of it ;) This, of course, would mean the VAX running 24h a day. SCSI-disks would certainly be a better choice than my SDI-disks in order to avoid a crash... Is my VAX with its 5 VUP and 32MB RAM fast enough to run a webserver ? Pierre ______________________________________________________________________________ Nachrichten, Musik und Spiele schnell und einfach per Quickstart im WEB.DE Screensaver - Gratis downloaden: http://screensaver.web.de/?mc=021110 From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Tue Feb 10 12:55:11 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:20 2005 Subject: Yay - new DEC arrival (not *strictly* on topic. Or is it?) In-Reply-To: <20040210174220.B54AD7F82@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Eric Dittman > Sent: 10 February 2004 17:42 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Yay - new DEC arrival (not *strictly* on topic. > Or is it?) > > > > I run Apache on Alpha VMS and it isn't slow. > > Depends on the hardware, Eric... a 300LX isnt, um, spiffy. > > No, but unless he's got a lot of people hitting the website > that shouldn't be a problem. There's 4 websites on the existing one and I barely shift 2gb per month in page hits...last week I found out that my ISP doesn't bitch until I start shifting a gig a day so I think I'm fine :) I was surprised to find that the UW disk with correct cable, converter and active terminator upset the SCSI bus so I'm temporarily using an old HP Surestore drive that I rescued from an old server at Mrs Witchy's school. 2gb but it's NOISY! Anyone in the UK got a spare RZ29B they don't want any more? :) Installing VMS 7.3 as I type......though I've been spoilt by the fast CD-ROMs in ES40s and the like so installing from an RRD42 is painful to say the least! Having said that I've got an old SCSI Yamaha CDRW that still reads but won't write so I might try putting that in my external CD enclosure...... Cheers -- Adrian/Witchy Owner & Webmaster, Binary Dinosaurs www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Tue Feb 10 12:59:04 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:20 2005 Subject: Yay - new DEC arrival (not *strictly* on topic. Or is it?) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Zane H. Healy > Sent: 10 February 2004 17:54 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: Yay - new DEC arrival (not *strictly* on topic. > Or is it?) > > True, but he's talking about Apache, MySQL, and I believe > PHP. All together, that could be painful. I think the key > thing will be ensuring that the system has enough RAM and to > try to keep it from swapping. The one good thing about a > 3000/300LX is that it takes 72-pin True Parity RAM. I'd > recommend maxing it if at all possible. Pentium Pro servers > can be a good source of RAM. All MySQL is currently doing is guestbook stuff and a couple of smaller things so it's not exactly being stressed :) Fortunately there's 160mb of RAM in there with 4x8mb SIMMS I can swap out if necessary. The machine won't be doing anything else apart from Apache so swapping can hopefully be avoided. Cheers -- Adrian/Witchy Owner & Webmaster, Binary Dinosaurs www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From curt at atarimuseum.com Tue Feb 10 13:02:44 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:20 2005 Subject: VAX 4000 acting as Webserver ? References: <200402101850.i1AIo2Q26808@mailgate5.cinetic.de> Message-ID: <000d01c3f008$7702e970$1a02a8c0@starship1> With BSD installed should work fine I would think, I doubt you'd want to run anything too heavy duty, I want to do it as well, I have a 4K-200 with 64mb Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pierre Gebhardt" To: Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2004 1:50 PM Subject: VAX 4000 acting as Webserver ? > Hi all ! > > Just a question which I'm quite curious about: > Is it possible to use my VAX 4000/200 as a web-server ? > That way, I could provide my future site about my collection by using parts of it ;) > > This, of course, would mean the VAX running 24h a day. > SCSI-disks would certainly be a better choice than my SDI-disks in order to avoid a crash... > > Is my VAX with its 5 VUP and 32MB RAM fast enough to run a webserver ? > > Pierre > ____________________________________________________________________________ __ > Nachrichten, Musik und Spiele schnell und einfach per Quickstart im > WEB.DE Screensaver - Gratis downloaden: http://screensaver.web.de/?mc=021110 > From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Tue Feb 10 13:06:19 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:20 2005 Subject: VAX 4000 acting as Webserver ? Message-ID: <0402101906.AA08250@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Pierre Gebhardt wrote: > Is it possible to use my VAX 4000/200 as a web-server ? > [...] > Is my VAX with its 5 VUP and 32MB RAM fast enough to run a webserver ? ivan.Harhan.ORG is a VAX655 (3.8 VUPs) and runs httpd. ifctfvax.Harhan.ORG is a VAX650 (2.8 VUPs) and runs httpd. OS is 4.3BSD-Quasijarus and httpd is IFCTF httpd, formerly W3C httpd, formerly CERN httpd. The original. > This, of course, would mean the VAX running 24h a day. Well, yeah, how else?... Aren't you already using your VAXen for all your most essential mission-critical applications, as your sole computing platform and as your main servers, as you should be? Well, OK, I guess not everyone is like me... I do just the above. I have *NO* computers other than Classic ones. > SCSI-disks would certainly be a better choice than my SDI-disks in order to > avoid a crash... I use SDI disks exclusively and have been doing so since 1999. MS P.S. But then again, I'm not like most people. I'm a lot more principled. From vcf at siconic.com Tue Feb 10 13:39:36 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:20 2005 Subject: Got a DEC 2000 Alpha server, need help In-Reply-To: <003701c3f004$8f85ec80$5b01a8c0@athlon> Message-ID: On Tue, 10 Feb 2004, Antonio Carlini wrote: > > Is that a new thing, I've been paying (decus) for the last three years > > just for licenses. > > Far be it for me to suggest that you cease to support a fine > organisation, but if all you want are the Hobbyist licences, sign up for > associate membership with the US DECUS, wait for the request to be > granted and then request the licences. Worked fine for me (in the UK > too). Does DECUS serve any broader purpose other than doling out VMS licenses to hobbyists who want to run old DEC gear? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Feb 10 13:43:19 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:20 2005 Subject: New acquisitions, looking for stuff In-Reply-To: <200402101245.23776.pat@computer-refuge.org> References: <200402101245.23776.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: <20040210113212.K46652@newshell.lmi.net> On Tue, 10 Feb 2004, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > Found some "semi-interesting" machines this week: > - IBM PC/AT with all IBM components, nearly pristine shape excluding > some scratches on the bottom; only missing a couple of screws and the > hard drive. It's got the real-deal IBM 5.25" floppy and 3.5" floppy > drives > (1200KB/DSHD and 720KB/DSDD, right?) Definite MAYBE The AT was available with "1.2M" OR "360K" 5.25, but the 1.2M is by far the more common choice. Telling them apart isn't always easy! When IBM realized that differentiation was an issue, they started putting an asterisk on the front plate of the 360K. Hmmm. Let's see. "Two similar ones, so let's make a change in the appearance of the OLD style one,..." Therefore, if there is an asterisk then it is 360K. If there is NO asterisk, then it is either a 1.2M, or an older 360K, or a different brand of 360K, ... If they had put the identifier on the NEW type, then it would have been possible to have consistency. NEITHER 720K, NOR 1.4M 3.5" drives were out when the AT was introduced. LATER, (with DOS 3.20), 720K was introduced, and became available as an option for the AT. LATER, (with DOS 3.30), 1.4M was introduced, and became available as an option for the AT. But the PS/2 was ALSO introduced then, so instead of adding a 1.4M to an AT, many "power users" switched to PS/2 instead. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Feb 10 13:59:55 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:20 2005 Subject: Got a DEC 2000 Alpha server, need help In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >Does DECUS serve any broader purpose other than doling out VMS licenses to >hobbyists who want to run old DEC gear? Roughly put, ENCOMPASS (there is no longer a US DECUS, hasn't been for several years) is a professional Users Group for people running Windows, Unix, and OpenVMS on HP Hardware (or the older Compaq or DEC HW). Unfortunately I think I got the order of "importance" listed correctly (well the order in their minds). Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From waltje at pdp11.nl Tue Feb 10 14:05:18 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:20 2005 Subject: Yay - new DEC arrival (not *strictly* on topic. Or is it?) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 10 Feb 2004, Witchy wrote: > > > I run Apache on Alpha VMS and it isn't slow. > > Depends on the hardware, Eric... a 300LX isnt, um, spiffy. > > It's the fastest machine I've got that'll run VMS and Apache/PHP/MySQL > though, until the University I got it from retires some DS10s in the next > year or so :) I was only pointing out to Eric that altho VMS-on-Alpha *can* be quite nice, it largely depends on the system it runs on... yes, it runs *very* nice on my new DS. It runs less nice, but still good, on the CObra (DEC4000-620). It runs, um, period, on a Multia :) > Nothing's happened yet anyway 'cos I can't find big enough disks to install > apart from a Compaq UltraSCSI 4 gb job that I'm sure I retired from the > existing webserver 'cos it was getting noisy and I'd just got some spanky > 18gb jobs.....the 4gb drive needs a cable and a wide/narrow converter before > I can install it. Lemme know if I can help. > power consumption in the computer room - something I know you don't have a > problem with :D True.. I use *way* too much of that here. --f From waltje at pdp11.nl Tue Feb 10 14:07:34 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:20 2005 Subject: Got a DEC 2000 Alpha server, need help In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 10 Feb 2004, Van Mersbergen, Ken wrote: > Hey all, > > I got a DEC 2000 Alpha server and it is working great! > > It has VMS 5.2 installed on it and that's where I'm stuck. Huh? I didnt know VMS 5.2 ran on an Alpha... are you *sure* its an Alpha, and not a VAX 2000 ? > Since I don't have a login user name or password I can't really do anything > with it. > > Is there a way to "hack" VMS so I can get in? Yeah, although I dont have that section at hand, there is a paragraph or two about that in the VMS FAQ. > Or do I just need to reinstall VMS and start from scratch? That, of course, is always a better thing to do, assuming you have all the stuff needed to install it... --f From waltje at pdp11.nl Tue Feb 10 14:08:33 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:20 2005 Subject: Yay - new DEC arrival (not *strictly* on topic. Or is it?) In-Reply-To: <20040210174220.B54AD7F82@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 10 Feb 2004, Eric Dittman wrote: > No, but unless he's got a lot of people hitting the website that > shouldn't be a problem. True. --f From vcf at siconic.com Tue Feb 10 14:11:15 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:20 2005 Subject: Got a DEC 2000 Alpha server, need help In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 10 Feb 2004, Zane H. Healy wrote: > >Does DECUS serve any broader purpose other than doling out VMS licenses to > >hobbyists who want to run old DEC gear? > > Roughly put, ENCOMPASS (there is no longer a US DECUS, hasn't been for > several years) is a professional Users Group for people running Windows, > Unix, and OpenVMS on HP Hardware (or the older Compaq or DEC HW). > Unfortunately I think I got the order of "importance" listed correctly > (well the order in their minds). Ok, so what are the benefits of membership besides being able to "legally" run VMS? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From waltje at pdp11.nl Tue Feb 10 14:12:55 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:20 2005 Subject: VAX 4000 acting as Webserver ? In-Reply-To: <200402101850.i1AIo2Q26808@mailgate5.cinetic.de> Message-ID: On Tue, 10 Feb 2004, Pierre Gebhardt wrote: > Hi all ! > > Just a question which I'm quite curious about: > Is it possible to use my VAX 4000/200 as a web-server ? No problem, I know several people in Holland who do exactly the same with their VAX 4000-300's- web, smtp and so on. > This, of course, would mean the VAX running 24h a day. It *does* use a bit of power.. > SCSI-disks would certainly be a better choice than my > SDI-disks in order to avoid a crash... Well, or use DSSI disks.. these things simply dont wanna die. I have a few of those running 24/7, and dammit, they dont give up :) > Is my VAX with its 5 VUP and 32MB RAM fast enough to run > a webserver ? 32MB is a bit close, but, yes, it will run VMS 7.1 with the usual web stuff. Try getting some extra RAM for it, that will certainly speed it up *a lot* ! --f From lists at microvax.org Tue Feb 10 14:16:28 2004 From: lists at microvax.org (meltie) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:20 2005 Subject: VAX 4000 acting as Webserver ? In-Reply-To: <200402101850.i1AIo2Q26808@mailgate5.cinetic.de> References: <200402101850.i1AIo2Q26808@mailgate5.cinetic.de> Message-ID: <200402102016.29224.lists@microvax.org> On Tuesday 10 February 2004 18:50, Pierre Gebhardt wrote: > Hi all ! > > Just a question which I'm quite curious about: > Is it possible to use my VAX 4000/200 as a web-server ? > That way, I could provide my future site about my collection by using > parts of it ;) > > This, of course, would mean the VAX running 24h a day. > SCSI-disks would certainly be a better choice than my SDI-disks in order > to avoid a crash... > > Is my VAX with its 5 VUP and 32MB RAM fast enough to run a webserver ? I have the same configuration - apart from no local disk that NetBSD can use so I put another disk in my home internet gateway box and booted NetBSD/VAX from that over the network - used to serve http:// www.meltie.com just fine with thttpd - very small, easy to set up, high performance webserver - http://www.acme.com/software/thttpd/ alex/melt From lists at microvax.org Tue Feb 10 14:18:41 2004 From: lists at microvax.org (meltie) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:20 2005 Subject: Got a DEC 2000 Alpha server, need help In-Reply-To: <003701c3f004$8f85ec80$5b01a8c0@athlon> References: <003701c3f004$8f85ec80$5b01a8c0@athlon> Message-ID: <200402102018.41514.lists@microvax.org> On Tuesday 10 February 2004 18:34, Antonio Carlini wrote: > > Is that a new thing, I've been paying (decus) for the last > > three years > > just for licenses. > > Far be it for me to suggest that you cease to support > a fine organisation, but if all you want are the > Hobbyist licences, sign up for associate membership > with the US DECUS, wait for the request to > be granted and then request the licences. Worked > fine for me (in the UK too). I did precisely the same, and attached a footnote fully explaining the situation, pointing out several times that I was from the UK. I was welcomed with open arms. alex/melt From rivie at ridgenet.net Tue Feb 10 14:20:26 2004 From: rivie at ridgenet.net (Roger Ivie) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:20 2005 Subject: VAX 4000 acting as Webserver ? In-Reply-To: <200402101850.i1AIo2Q26808@mailgate5.cinetic.de> References: <200402101850.i1AIo2Q26808@mailgate5.cinetic.de> Message-ID: On Tue, 10 Feb 2004, Pierre Gebhardt wrote: > Just a question which I'm quite curious about: > Is it possible to use my VAX 4000/200 as a web-server ? I ran a web server for about a year on a 4000/90 using NetBSD and thttpd. Worked great. > Is my VAX with its 5 VUP and 32MB RAM fast enough to run a webserver ? Should work as long you don't expect to handle lots of traffic. -- Roger Ivie rivie@ridgenet.net (Rated a 10 on the Fox Scale of Forth-Hatred) From lists at microvax.org Tue Feb 10 14:23:22 2004 From: lists at microvax.org (meltie) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:20 2005 Subject: VAX 4000 acting as Webserver ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200402102023.22753.lists@microvax.org> On Tuesday 10 February 2004 20:12, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > [a 4000-200] *does* use a bit of power.. I find mine with 3 DSSI disks comes in under 3A@240V - less than my P133 that sits under the cable box downstairs! alex/melt From dan_williams at ntlworld.com Tue Feb 10 14:39:28 2004 From: dan_williams at ntlworld.com (Dan Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:20 2005 Subject: VAX 4000 acting as Webserver ? In-Reply-To: <200402102023.22753.lists@microvax.org> References: <200402102023.22753.lists@microvax.org> Message-ID: <40294180.4090703@ntlworld.com> meltie wrote: >On Tuesday 10 February 2004 20:12, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > > >>[a 4000-200] *does* use a bit of power.. >> >> >I find mine with 3 DSSI disks comes in under 3A@240V - less than my P133 >that sits under the cable box downstairs! > >alex/melt > > > > I hzve no idea what mine is pulling, it has 3 internal and 5 external dssi disks in a r4000 and has been running solidly for the last six months. Dan From waltje at pdp11.nl Tue Feb 10 14:46:28 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:20 2005 Subject: VAX 4000 acting as Webserver ? In-Reply-To: <40294180.4090703@ntlworld.com> Message-ID: > >I find mine with 3 DSSI disks comes in under 3A@240V - less than my P133 > >that sits under the cable box downstairs! Your PC uses 3A? Jesus. Get another PeeCee! :) > I hzve no idea what mine is pulling, it has 3 internal and 5 external > dssi disks in a r4000 and has been running solidly for the last six months. I'm not going to mention what all is running 24/7 here. My power company will get a heart attack if I do... --f From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue Feb 10 14:56:19 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:20 2005 Subject: Got a DEC 2000 Alpha server, need help In-Reply-To: "Antonio Carlini" "RE: Got a DEC 2000 Alpha server, need help" (Feb 10, 18:34) References: <003701c3f004$8f85ec80$5b01a8c0@athlon> Message-ID: <10402102056.ZM24796@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Feb 10, 18:34, Antonio Carlini wrote: > > Is that a new thing, I've been paying (decus) for the last > > three years > > just for licenses. > > Far be it for me to suggest that you cease to support > a fine organisation, but if all you want are the > Hobbyist licences, sign up for associate membership > with the US DECUS, wait for the request to > be granted and then request the licences. Worked > fine for me (in the UK too). Aha! I wondered about that -- thanks for the tip! -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue Feb 10 14:55:24 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:20 2005 Subject: Got a DEC 2000 Alpha server, need help In-Reply-To: Dan Williams "Re: Got a DEC 2000 Alpha server, need help" (Feb 10, 18:23) References: <20040210181030.761A17F82@narnia.int.dittman.net> <4029218F.20501@ntlworld.com> Message-ID: <10402102055.ZM24793@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Feb 10, 18:23, Dan Williams wrote: > Eric Dittman wrote: > > >>>>DECUS or Encompass? Where are you located? > >>>> > >>>> > > Decus (well not know), in the UK That explains it -- DECUS UK (and now Encompass in the UK, or whatever HP are calling it this month) have always charged several times what the US and European branches do, for anything. Yes, they do charge for the minimum membership required for a Hobbyist License. I forget the amount because I threw the renewal papers out in disgust, but it was not far short of ?100; certainly over US$100. That membership, BTW, is not good for anything except the Hobbyist License, either. No seminars, meetings, w.h.y. And don't let your membership lapse or they'll charge an extra ?25 to renew it :-( -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From waltje at pdp11.nl Tue Feb 10 15:24:17 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:20 2005 Subject: Got a DEC 2000 Alpha server, need help In-Reply-To: <10402102055.ZM24793@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 10 Feb 2004, Pete Turnbull wrote: > That explains it -- DECUS UK (and now Encompass in the UK, or whatever > HP are calling it this month) have always charged several times what > the US and European branches do, for anything. Yes, they do charge for > the minimum membership required for a Hobbyist License. I forget the > amount because I threw the renewal papers out in disgust, but it was > not far short of £100; certainly over US$100. That membership, BTW, is > not good for anything except the Hobbyist License, either. No > seminars, meetings, w.h.y. And don't let your membership lapse or > they'll charge an extra £25 to renew it :-( In Holland, that would be HP Interex, and they charge EUR 125/year for membership (there is only one level), which is required for the Hobbyist license. Gee, I wonder why people are slowly dropping their support for the Hobbyist program... --f -- Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist Visit the VAXlab Project at http://VAXlab.pdp11.nl/ Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Mountain View, CA, USA From lists at microvax.org Tue Feb 10 15:44:47 2004 From: lists at microvax.org (meltie) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:20 2005 Subject: VAX 4000 acting as Webserver ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200402102144.47594.lists@microvax.org> On Tuesday 10 February 2004 20:46, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > > >I find mine with 3 DSSI disks comes in under 3A@240V - less than my > > > P133 that sits under the cable box downstairs! > > Your PC uses 3A? Jesus. Get another PeeCee! :) I'd rather not ;) > > I hzve no idea what mine is pulling, it has 3 internal and 5 external > > dssi disks in a r4000 and has been running solidly for the last six > > months. > > I'm not going to mention what all is running 24/7 here. My > power company will get a heart attack if I do... Reminds me of my time in Uni halls - we didn't have to pay any power bills! Aw g'wan, tell... alex/melt From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Feb 10 16:17:08 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:20 2005 Subject: DATA I/O PROM Programmer In-Reply-To: <".206.184.248.70.1076429431.squirrel"@login.pegasus.lunarp ages.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040210171708.008cd7e0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Erik, I have one and I think I have the manual for it. IIRC it's all menu driven, (pick the manufacturer then the EPROM number) and it programs 2716 to 27256 (or 27512?) type EPROMs. Joe At 08:10 AM 2/10/04 -0800, you wrote: >Is anyone familiar with a DATA I/O MPD 60A Programmer? > >There is one for sale that I'm thinking about but I have no idea what >proms it can handle, etc. > >A Google search turned up a goose egg. > >Any help would be appreciated. > >Erik Klein >www.vintage-computer.com >www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum >The Vintage Computer Forum > > > From dan at ekoan.com Tue Feb 10 16:38:49 2004 From: dan at ekoan.com (Dan Veeneman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:20 2005 Subject: HP 9845B in Graz, Austria In-Reply-To: <.206.184.248.70.1076428923.squirrel@login.pegasus.lunarpag es.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20040210171630.05b86040@enigma> Hello, Apparently there is a Hewlett-Packard 9845B awaiting disposal in the basement of a company in Graz, Austria. I'd love to rescue the machine, but because I'm on the east coast of the United States it's a little too far for me to go and pick it up. It's also an extremely heavy machine, so shipping across the pond isn't affordable (for me). So, if anyone closer to Austria is interested in saving this classic computer, contact me off-list and I'll put you in touch with the owner. Thanks! Cheers, Dan www.decodesystems.com/wanted.html From dittman at dittman.net Tue Feb 10 17:49:01 2004 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:20 2005 Subject: Got a DEC 2000 Alpha server, need help In-Reply-To: <4029218F.20501@ntlworld.com> from "Dan Williams" at Feb 10, 2004 06:23:11 PM Message-ID: <20040210234901.9CACD7F82@narnia.int.dittman.net> > >>>>DECUS or Encompass? Where are you located? > >>>> > >>>> > > Decus (well not know), in the UK The Encompass US group offers the associate membership to people in all countries. I don't know if the UK group has a free level of membership, so if they don't check with the US group. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From dittman at dittman.net Tue Feb 10 18:04:22 2004 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:20 2005 Subject: Got a DEC 2000 Alpha server, need help In-Reply-To: from "Fred N. van Kempen" at Feb 10, 2004 10:24:17 PM Message-ID: <20040211000422.8C2997F82@narnia.int.dittman.net> > > That explains it -- DECUS UK (and now Encompass in the UK, or whatever > > HP are calling it this month) have always charged several times what > > the US and European branches do, for anything. Yes, they do charge for > > the minimum membership required for a Hobbyist License. I forget the > > amount because I threw the renewal papers out in disgust, but it was > > not far short of ?100; certainly over US$100. That membership, BTW, is > > not good for anything except the Hobbyist License, either. No > > seminars, meetings, w.h.y. And don't let your membership lapse or > > they'll charge an extra ?25 to renew it :-( > In Holland, that would be HP Interex, and they charge EUR 125/year > for membership (there is only one level), which is required for > the Hobbyist license. > > Gee, I wonder why people are slowly dropping their support for > the Hobbyist program... Anyone is allowed to join Encompass US at the the associate level, which allows access to the OpenVMS Hobbyist program. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From dittman at dittman.net Tue Feb 10 18:06:18 2004 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:20 2005 Subject: Got a DEC 2000 Alpha server, need help In-Reply-To: from "Vintage Computer Festival" at Feb 10, 2004 12:11:15 PM Message-ID: <20040211000618.3462C801C@narnia.int.dittman.net> > > >Does DECUS serve any broader purpose other than doling out VMS licenses to > > >hobbyists who want to run old DEC gear? > > > > Roughly put, ENCOMPASS (there is no longer a US DECUS, hasn't been for > > several years) is a professional Users Group for people running Windows, > > Unix, and OpenVMS on HP Hardware (or the older Compaq or DEC HW). > > Unfortunately I think I got the order of "importance" listed correctly > > (well the order in their minds). > > Ok, so what are the benefits of membership besides being able to "legally" > run VMS? Details are one the Encompass website at http://www.encompassus.com/ -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From vcf at siconic.com Tue Feb 10 18:18:01 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:20 2005 Subject: Got a DEC 2000 Alpha server, need help In-Reply-To: <10402102055.ZM24793@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 10 Feb 2004, Pete Turnbull wrote: > That explains it -- DECUS UK (and now Encompass in the UK, or whatever > HP are calling it this month) have always charged several times what > the US and European branches do, for anything. Yes, they do charge for > the minimum membership required for a Hobbyist License. I forget the > amount because I threw the renewal papers out in disgust, but it was > not far short of ?100; certainly over US$100. That membership, BTW, is > not good for anything except the Hobbyist License, either. No > seminars, meetings, w.h.y. And don't let your membership lapse or > they'll charge an extra ?25 to renew it :-( Right, this is what I was getting at. So assuming this is correct, what I was getting at is that DECUS is pointless. They exist solely to charge (or extort rather) hobbyists to use an operating system. Isn't it time to either kill DECUS, or turn it into something more useful? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From dvcorbin at optonline.net Tue Feb 10 19:22:11 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:20 2005 Subject: DECUS (Was Got a DEC 2000 Alpha server, need help) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: It is interesting how times change. When I was heavily involved in DECUS ['77-'91] it was a resource who's worth was almost beyond calculation. Now I hear these types of discussions. On a related front, makes me wonder why I keep up my IEEE membership.......... David. From jrkeys at concentric.net Tue Feb 10 19:33:24 2004 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:20 2005 Subject: Anyone ever seen a Greyhound Computer? Message-ID: <01be01c3f03f$0bc74340$49406b43@66067007> Has anyone ever seen a Greyhound computer or worked on one or have one? All I can find is how they sued and won $21 from IBM nothing about their hardware. From TRASIOL at cs.com Tue Feb 10 20:00:23 2004 From: TRASIOL at cs.com (TRASIOL@cs.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:21 2005 Subject: Anyone ever seen a Greyhound Computer? Message-ID: I believe you will find that GREYHOUND was nothing more than a leasing organization and dealt primarily (if not exclusively) with IBM Main Frames. When I was Director, Central DP Division for the State of Delaware (1973), I leased systems from Greyhound at greatly reduced rates (saving the taxpayers' money). Art Hill From allain at panix.com Tue Feb 10 20:05:58 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:21 2005 Subject: Yay - new DEC arrival (not *strictly* on topic. Or is it?) References: Message-ID: <057701c3f043$985e5560$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > That is exactly why I *still* run critical or security-sensitive > stuff on such platforms. It leaves those kiddies with a severe > headache. :) At last! A motivation behind all this. I was beginning to wonder. I saw a digital animation festival last night and was thinking of getting a new compute server. By my calculations a midsized PC passed even the CRAY-1 in compute speed sometime in 2002, give or take a year. It probably would require a stripped down O/S to do the computing. MS must take out at least 3/4 of the machine power. John A. From aek at spies.com Tue Feb 10 20:32:22 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:21 2005 Subject: Got a DEC 2000 Alpha server, need help Message-ID: <200402110232.i1B2WMvY010802@spies.com> > Isn't it time to either kill DECUS, or turn it into something more useful? It died when they threw out the program libraries for anything that wasn't a VAX Resurrection of those libraries will take years, thanks a lot guys.. From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Feb 10 21:09:01 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:21 2005 Subject: Got a DEC 2000 Alpha server, need help In-Reply-To: <200402110232.i1B2WMvY010802@spies.com> from "Al Kossow" at Feb 10, 2004 06:32:22 PM Message-ID: <200402110309.i1B391ao032418@onyx.spiritone.com> > > > > Isn't it time to either kill DECUS, or turn it into something more useful? > > It died when they threw out the program libraries for anything that wasn't a VAX > > Resurrection of those libraries will take years, thanks a lot guys.. > Have you tried to find any of the VAX stuff? It's not easy! Some stuff for VMS, PDP-10, and PDP-11 (maybe others as well) is available on Eisner (unfortunatly I'm sure there aren't any hidden gems). For example: $ dir dka0:[000000.decus] Directory DKA0:[000000.DECUS] AUSDECUS92.DSK;1 CD1.LIS;1 CD2.LIS;1 CD3.LIS;1 CD4.LIS;1 CD5.LIS;1 CD6.LIS;1 CD7.LIS;1 DECUSLIBCOLL1994.DSK;1 ESSTOOLS1007.DSK;1 FTPDECUS.DIR;1 LT86A.ZIP;1 LT87A.ZIP;1 PDP10PDP11.DSK;1 PDP11.DSK;3 PDP11SIG.DSK;1 PROPDP.DSK;1 SCAN.BCK;1 VLT00A.DSK;1 VLT00B.DSK;3 VLT01A.DSK;1 VLT01B.BCK;1 VLT01B.DSK;1 VLT02A.DSK;1 VLT02B.DSK;1 VLT95B.DSK;1 VLT96A.DSK;1 VLT96B.DSK;1 VLT97A-MISCONF.DSK;1 VLT97A.DSK;1 VLT97B.DSK;1 VLT98A.DSK;1 VLT98B.DSK;1 VLT99A.DSK;1 VLT99B.DSK;1 VLTSUM1.DSK;1 VLTSUM2.DSK;1 VLTSUM3.DSK;1 VLTSUM4.DSK;1 VLTSUM5.DSK;1 VLTSUM6.DSK;1 VLTSUM7.DSK;1 VMSAXPSTARTUP.DSK;1 Total of 43 files. Zane From wlewis at mailbag.com Tue Feb 10 21:12:29 2004 From: wlewis at mailbag.com (William Barnett-Lewis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:21 2005 Subject: HP 9000/715 Keyboard Adapter Module? References: <200402110222.i1B2LLOJ011554@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <40299D9D.8060608@mailbag.com> Hello all, This is right on the edge of being ontopic, so I hope this is acceptable. I recently scored an HP 9000 715/64 cheaply to run Nextstep on. It does not have it's keyboard adapter module. Does anyone here have a module and cable for this machine that they would be willing to sell? Thanks in advance, William From freddyboomboom at comcast.net Tue Feb 10 18:21:35 2004 From: freddyboomboom at comcast.net (Andrew Prince) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:21 2005 Subject: Ok folks... BIG problem... LCD screen backlight is dead In-Reply-To: <20040209224729.23512.qmail@web41711.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040209224729.23512.qmail@web41711.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1076458895.2046.13.camel@localhost> On Mon, 2004-02-09 at 17:47, Lyos Norezel wrote: > Hey ya'll... I have a MAJOR problem here. My laptop (PII, 512MB's ram, 4.1GB HD) > has an LCD screen in which the backlight has died. No warning just died ten > minutes into a computer session. Tried restarting, tried taking it apart, > jimmiing switches, etc... took it down to it's bare components and reassembled... > NADA... nothing works. Any ideas? can the backlight be replaced? Could a replacement > backlight be jerryrigged into place? Really need this laptop... I use it everyday... > but can't afford a replacement LCD. Any advice? Ideas? HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > Lyos Gemini Norezel > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online Lyos: Depending on the make and model, some laptops have what's called an "inverter board" that supplies the necessary voltage and current to run the LCD panel itself. If the inverter board goes out, the display is VERY dim, in fact you have to look really closely do discern any video at all. If this is your situation, then the inverter boards are usually pretty cheap, compared to the LCD panel itself. If the display is readable from a normal distance, but very dark, then yes, the backlight is out, and you either need to pull another of the same make and model of LCD panel apart to get the tube out, or replace the entire LCD panel. If either of those are prohibitively expensive for you, and you don't mind Dell's... Visit www.dellauction.com or www.dfsdirectsales.com for some lesser expensive alternatives to a brand new laptop. TTFN Andrew From vcf at siconic.com Tue Feb 10 21:25:41 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:21 2005 Subject: Got a DEC 2000 Alpha server, need help In-Reply-To: <200402110232.i1B2WMvY010802@spies.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 10 Feb 2004, Al Kossow wrote: > > Isn't it time to either kill DECUS, or turn it into something more useful? > > It died when they threw out the program libraries for anything that wasn't a VAX > > Resurrection of those libraries will take years, thanks a lot guys.. Does DECUS also still supply licenses for commercial use of VMS? If so, does anyone have an idea of what their licensed user base is for that? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Tue Feb 10 21:27:27 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:21 2005 Subject: Kinda OT: Adaptec AHA-2920A BIOS utility? Message-ID: Is there a BIOS utility on the Adaptec AHA-2920A SCSI card? If so, how does one enter it? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Feb 10 21:42:04 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:21 2005 Subject: Ok folks... BIG problem... LCD screen backlight is dead In-Reply-To: <1076458895.2046.13.camel@localhost> References: <20040209224729.23512.qmail@web41711.mail.yahoo.com> <1076458895.2046.13.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <20040210194130.V64003@newshell.lmi.net> On Mon, 2004-02-09 at 17:47, Lyos Norezel wrote: > Hey ya'll... I have a MAJOR problem here. My laptop (PII, 512MB's ram, 4.1GB HD) > has an LCD screen in which the backlight has died. No warning just died ten Make? Model? Voltage? Amperage? From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Feb 10 21:51:00 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:21 2005 Subject: Got a DEC 2000 Alpha server, need help In-Reply-To: from "Vintage Computer Festival" at Feb 10, 2004 07:25:41 PM Message-ID: <200402110351.i1B3p1HQ000520@onyx.spiritone.com> > Does DECUS also still supply licenses for commercial use of VMS? If so, > does anyone have an idea of what their licensed user base is for that? As far as I know, they've never supplied licenses for Commercial Use of OpenVMS. That would be DEC/Compaq/HP. DECUS/Encompass is simply a User Group. Zane From freddyboomboom at comcast.net Tue Feb 10 19:15:51 2004 From: freddyboomboom at comcast.net (Andrew Prince) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:21 2005 Subject: Kinda OT: Adaptec AHA-2920A BIOS utility? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1076462151.2078.4.camel@localhost> On Tue, 2004-02-10 at 22:27, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > Is there a BIOS utility on the Adaptec AHA-2920A SCSI card? If so, how > does one enter it? I'm not sure if it does, the manual I just downlaoded from Adaptec didn't really say. How to get into it, if it has one, is when you see the card's POST messages, hit ctrl-a. That should get you in, as long as you are on a PC style box. I don't know if this will work on an Alpha or anything else. I do know this won't work on a Mac. Good luck! TTFN Andrew From jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to Tue Feb 10 22:24:24 2004 From: jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:21 2005 Subject: OKIDATA OL830 LASER JET PRINTER - ERROR ENGINE FAN PROBLEM References: <000701c3efde$cecb1620$a86c3439@colbacks.com> Message-ID: <4029AE78.FF6F9BD0@compsys.to> >Trevor Beckford wrote: > Did you ever get to resolve your Oki Printer problem??? Mine has just started doing exactly the same thing and can't get any sense out of local Oki engineer!! > Kindest Regards > Trevor Beckford > MANAGING DIRECTOR > Colbacks Travel > 31 Gloucester Street > St Helier, Jersey JE2 3QR > Tel:(44) 1534 700500 > Fax:(44) 1534 700598 Jerome Fine replies: I am still looking for some help as well. If you find anything, please let me know. I can't even find out if there are two fans! The fan right at the back left of the printer is easy to look at, but I was not able to get into the guts at all. To remove the cover, the display on the left "snaps" out to reveal a hold down bolt in addition to the other two in the front. But I was unable to do much more than just "look". Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From vcf at siconic.com Tue Feb 10 22:39:13 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:21 2005 Subject: Kinda OT: Adaptec AHA-2920A BIOS utility? In-Reply-To: <1076462151.2078.4.camel@localhost> Message-ID: On Tue, 10 Feb 2004, Andrew Prince wrote: > On Tue, 2004-02-10 at 22:27, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > Is there a BIOS utility on the Adaptec AHA-2920A SCSI card? If so, how > > does one enter it? > > I'm not sure if it does, the manual I just downlaoded from Adaptec > didn't really say. Me too. As you found, it wasn't very helpful in this regard. > How to get into it, if it has one, is when you see the card's POST > messages, hit ctrl-a. That should get you in, as long as you are on a PC > style box. I don't know if this will work on an Alpha or anything else. > I do know this won't work on a Mac. I already tried that and it didn't work. I'm thinking it just does not have a BIOS like other Adaptec cards do, but I wanted to be sure. Thanks! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From jcwren at jcwren.com Tue Feb 10 23:22:32 2004 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:21 2005 Subject: Yay - new DEC arrival (not *strictly* on topic. Or is it?) In-Reply-To: <057701c3f043$985e5560$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> References: <057701c3f043$985e5560$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <4029BC18.9000909@jcwren.com> John Allain wrote: >>That is exactly why I *still* run critical or security-sensitive >>stuff on such platforms. It leaves those kiddies with a severe >>headache. :) >> >> > >At last! A motivation behind all this. I was beginning to wonder. > >I saw a digital animation festival last night and was thinking of >getting a new compute server. By my calculations a midsized >PC passed even the CRAY-1 in compute speed sometime in 2002, >give or take a year. It probably would require a stripped down O/S >to do the computing. MS must take out at least 3/4 of the machine >power. > >John A. > > > > I think your understanding of operating systems and PC architecture is flawed. It sounds like typical knee-jerk MS bashing. --jc From vcf at siconic.com Tue Feb 10 23:23:51 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:21 2005 Subject: Got a DEC 2000 Alpha server, need help In-Reply-To: <200402110351.i1B3p1HQ000520@onyx.spiritone.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 10 Feb 2004, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > Does DECUS also still supply licenses for commercial use of VMS? If so, > > does anyone have an idea of what their licensed user base is for that? > > As far as I know, they've never supplied licenses for Commercial Use of > OpenVMS. That would be DEC/Compaq/HP. DECUS/Encompass is simply a User > Group. Ok, then I can say quite imperiously that DECUS needs to go away since it only seems to be existing to annoy hobbyist VMS users. What if every DECUS member simply did not extend or renew their membership? Can it be assumed that funding for DECUS would simply dry up and DECUS would be no longer? If so, then VMS hobbyist licenses would be "up in the air" so to speak. With Compaq now having been sucked up into HP, and HP probably not giving a damn either way, my guess is that hobbyist VMS use would be relegated to a "public domain" model. Is there a lapse in my reasoning anywhere here? I just see no reason at this point why DECUS needs to be, and why people need to pay money to use VMS in a hobbyist mode. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Feb 10 23:39:16 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:21 2005 Subject: Got a DEC 2000 Alpha server, need help In-Reply-To: from "Vintage Computer Festival" at Feb 10, 2004 09:23:51 PM Message-ID: <200402110539.i1B5dGk7003075@onyx.spiritone.com> > > > Does DECUS also still supply licenses for commercial use of VMS? If so, > > > does anyone have an idea of what their licensed user base is for that? > > > > As far as I know, they've never supplied licenses for Commercial Use of > > OpenVMS. That would be DEC/Compaq/HP. DECUS/Encompass is simply a User > > Group. > > Ok, then I can say quite imperiously that DECUS needs to go away since it > only seems to be existing to annoy hobbyist VMS users. Your reasoning really boggles the mind. Have you bothered to look at http://www.encompassus.org/ before making these statements? The OpenVMS Hobbyist Program is a really *tiny* aspect of Encompass. > Is there a lapse in my reasoning anywhere here? > > I just see no reason at this point why DECUS needs to be, and why people > need to pay money to use VMS in a hobbyist mode. They DO NOT have to pay money! You can get FREE MEMBERSHIP that entitles you to use OpenVMS! As for PAYING money, HP *STILL* charges people to use Tru64 Unix in a "hobbyist mode". Zane From doc at mdrconsult.com Tue Feb 10 23:50:05 2004 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:21 2005 Subject: Kinda OT: Adaptec AHA-2920A BIOS utility? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <24824AB6-5C56-11D8-9153-000A95A6B97A@mdrconsult.com> On Feb 10, 2004, at 10:39 PM, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Tue, 10 Feb 2004, Andrew Prince wrote: > >> On Tue, 2004-02-10 at 22:27, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: >>> Is there a BIOS utility on the Adaptec AHA-2920A SCSI card? If so, >>> how >>> does one enter it? >> >> I'm not sure if it does, the manual I just downlaoded from Adaptec >> didn't really say. > > Me too. As you found, it wasn't very helpful in this regard. I'm not sure about the AHA2920, but the 2930 had a configuration program on floppy. You might look for a configuration program on Adaptec's FTP archive. BTW, I am sure neither card is bootable. Doc From ckotter at gmx.at Tue Feb 10 15:02:18 2004 From: ckotter at gmx.at (Christoph Kotter) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:21 2005 Subject: HP 9845B Message-ID: <000901c3f019$2d06b9d0$e685fea9@arbeitstier> Hi, my company is about to through away this computer. Do you need it ? From K6OKL at aol.com Tue Feb 10 20:09:46 2004 From: K6OKL at aol.com (K6OKL@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:21 2005 Subject: Intel iUP-201 Message-ID: <57.27adba52.2d5ae8ea@aol.com> Hello Dwight- Google led me to your discussion with Gilis in the Netherlands a while back and I thought you might be able to help with a little problem I have if you were willing. I borrowed an iUP-201 from a friend and it seemed to initialize OK. After I plugged in a 27128 ROM to see what was in it, the unit froze and now gives a "Power Supply Failure" display and won't do anything else. I looked inside to see what the four power supplies were up to and it appears two of them turn on with commands from the F27/128 module, and were not doing so. The only documentation I have is a Pocket Programmer Reference and it's not much help. Do you have any suggestions on how I might troubleshoot this machine or at least get some documentation on it? Thanks for your help... Walt Lindell k6okl@aol.com From rrickey at yahoo.com Tue Feb 10 13:32:41 2004 From: rrickey at yahoo.com (Rob Rickey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:21 2005 Subject: Realistic MPA 100 Message-ID: <20040210193241.6020.qmail@web11509.mail.yahoo.com> Hiya Chris! Just purchased the MPA 100 without a manual. I got your name from a google site. Do you still have it available that you could email it to me? Thanks, Rob --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online From waltje at pdp11.nl Wed Feb 11 04:50:08 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:21 2005 Subject: Got a DEC 2000 Alpha server, need help In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 10 Feb 2004, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > What if every DECUS member simply did not extend or renew their > membership? Can it be assumed that funding for DECUS would simply dry up > and DECUS would be no longer? Probably, at some point. > If so, then VMS hobbyist licenses would be "up in the air" so to speak. No, HP would probably allow Montagar or other groupsto handle the issue. > With Compaq now having been sucked up into HP, and HP probably not giving > a damn either way, my guess is that hobbyist VMS use would be relegated to > a "public domain" model. Hah. > Is there a lapse in my reasoning anywhere here? Yes. HP Does Not Believe In Public Domain. > I just see no reason at this point why DECUS needs to be, and why people > need to pay money to use VMS in a hobbyist mode. Right. --f From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Feb 11 06:23:23 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:21 2005 Subject: Kinda OT: Adaptec AHA-2920A BIOS utility? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040211072323.00814490@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> The 2940 has a BIOS and you use a Control A to enter it. Joe At 07:27 PM 2/10/04 -0800, you wrote: > >Is there a BIOS utility on the Adaptec AHA-2920A SCSI card? If so, how >does one enter it? > >-- > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > >[ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] >[ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > > From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Wed Feb 11 06:51:23 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:21 2005 Subject: Yay - new DEC arrival (not *strictly* on topic. Or is it?) In-Reply-To: <4029BC18.9000909@jcwren.com> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of J.C. Wren > Sent: 11 February 2004 05:23 > To: General@jupiter.easily.co.uk; > Discussion@jupiter.easily.co.uk:On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: Yay - new DEC arrival (not *strictly* on topic. > Or is it?) > > I think your understanding of operating systems and PC > architecture is flawed. It sounds like typical knee-jerk MS bashing. Not really, I'm running Win2K Pro here on a 'standard' system with half a gig of RAM which requires me to have a gig's worth of pagefile. Why? Surely half a gig is enough memory to have all my running processes in memory at the same time, even if they're inactive? According to the task manager I've got 210mb 'free', so everything that's running now should stay running and not get swapped out, but it does. Cheers -- Adrian/Witchy Owner & Webmaster, Binary Dinosaurs www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From jcwren at jcwren.com Wed Feb 11 07:43:21 2004 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:21 2005 Subject: Yay - new DEC arrival (not *strictly* on topic. Or is it?) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <402A3179.8090602@jcwren.com> Witchy wrote: >>-----Original Message----- >>From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org >>[mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of J.C. Wren >>Sent: 11 February 2004 05:23 >>To: General@jupiter.easily.co.uk; >>Discussion@jupiter.easily.co.uk:On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts >>Subject: Re: Yay - new DEC arrival (not *strictly* on topic. >>Or is it?) >> >>I think your understanding of operating systems and PC >>architecture is flawed. It sounds like typical knee-jerk MS bashing. >> >> > >Not really, I'm running Win2K Pro here on a 'standard' system with half a >gig of RAM which requires me to have a gig's worth of pagefile. Why? Surely >half a gig is enough memory to have all my running processes in memory at >the same time, even if they're inactive? According to the task manager I've >got 210mb 'free', so everything that's running now should stay running and >not get swapped out, but it does. > >Cheers > >-- >Adrian/Witchy >Owner & Webmaster, Binary Dinosaurs >www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum >www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( > > > No, because just like Linux, idle processes will be swapped out to leave memory available for immediate demands, primarily buffers. Task manager doesn't reflect what portion of memory is used for what purposes very accurately. IIRC, there's a tool out on < http://www.sysinternals.com > that gives a more detailed view of what is allocated where. --jc From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Wed Feb 11 08:02:52 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:21 2005 Subject: Yay - new DEC arrival (not *strictly* on topic. Or is it?) In-Reply-To: <402A3179.8090602@jcwren.com> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of J.C. Wren > Sent: 11 February 2004 13:43 > To: General@deimos.easily.co.uk; > Discussion@deimos.easily.co.uk:On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: Yay - new DEC arrival (not *strictly* on topic. > Or is it?) > > No, because just like Linux, idle processes will be swapped > out to leave > memory available for immediate demands, primarily buffers. Task > manager doesn't reflect what portion of memory is used for > what purposes very accurately. IIRC, there's a tool out on < > http://www.sysinternals.com > that gives a more detailed view > of what is allocated where. Thanks, I'd forgotten about sysinternals...... Cheers w From allain at panix.com Wed Feb 11 08:01:20 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:21 2005 Subject: Got a DEC 2000 Alpha server, need help References: Message-ID: <005901c3f0a7$874d4a60$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > Ok, then I can say quite imperiously that DECUS needs to go away > since it only seems to be existing to annoy hobbyist VMS users. . . . > Is there a lapse in my reasoning anywhere here? Well, there's free, there's commercial ($$) and there's inbetween. Looks like hobbyist is trying to position itself as a low-cost instead of free service. Certainly better than high-cost or nothing. Maybe they simply wanted to convert a money losing department into a break-even one. John A. From geoffr at zipcon.net Wed Feb 11 08:15:10 2004 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:21 2005 Subject: Kinda OT: Adaptec AHA-2920A BIOS utility? In-Reply-To: References: <1076462151.2078.4.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20040211061442.03f4a0d0@mail.zipcon.net> post a pic of your card... I haven't looked at a 2920A recently... At 08:39 PM 2/10/2004, you wrote: >On Tue, 10 Feb 2004, Andrew Prince wrote: > > > On Tue, 2004-02-10 at 22:27, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > > Is there a BIOS utility on the Adaptec AHA-2920A SCSI card? If so, how > > > does one enter it? > > > > I'm not sure if it does, the manual I just downlaoded from Adaptec > > didn't really say. > >Me too. As you found, it wasn't very helpful in this regard. > > > How to get into it, if it has one, is when you see the card's POST > > messages, hit ctrl-a. That should get you in, as long as you are on a PC > > style box. I don't know if this will work on an Alpha or anything else. > > I do know this won't work on a Mac. > >I already tried that and it didn't work. I'm thinking it just does not >have a BIOS like other Adaptec cards do, but I wanted to be sure. > >Thanks! > >-- > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > >[ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] >[ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From allain at panix.com Wed Feb 11 08:10:49 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:21 2005 Subject: Yay - new DEC arrival (not *strictly* on topic. Or is it?) References: <057701c3f043$985e5560$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> <4029BC18.9000909@jcwren.com> Message-ID: <006301c3f0a8$daa193a0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> >> MS must take out at least 3/4 of the machine power. > I think your understanding of operating systems and PC > architecture is flawed. It sounds like typical knee-jerk MS > bashing. Well, I've been using both MS and non-MS systems for over 10 years each. My statement is based on 1/ the generic demands of any windowing system, which are a compute drag, 2/ the specific history of MS as being a leader in clumsy engineering ("bloatware" and other factors) 3/ the model used at Cray itself, where the compute engine was separated and I/O was given over to an outside processor. John A. From pkoning at equallogic.com Wed Feb 11 08:21:58 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:21 2005 Subject: Yay - new DEC arrival (not *strictly* on topic. Or is it?) References: <057701c3f043$985e5560$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <16426.14982.213000.222429@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "John" == John Allain writes: >> That is exactly why I *still* run critical or security-sensitive >> stuff on such platforms. It leaves those kiddies with a severe >> headache. :) John> At last! A motivation behind all this. I was beginning to John> wonder. John> I saw a digital animation festival last night and was thinking John> of getting a new compute server. By my calculations a midsized John> PC passed even the CRAY-1 in compute speed sometime in 2002, John> give or take a year. It probably would require a stripped down John> O/S to do the computing. MS must take out at least 3/4 of the John> machine power. So run Linux... It's not clear if your comparison is right when you look at floating point arithmetic, especially vector arithmetic. paul From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Wed Feb 11 09:03:58 2004 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:21 2005 Subject: DATA I/O PROM Programmer In-Reply-To: <.206.184.248.70.1076429431.squirrel@login.pegasus.lunarpages.com> References: <.206.184.248.70.1076429431.squirrel@login.pegasus.lunarpages.com> Message-ID: <200402110703580204.04BA1966@192.168.42.129> Good day, *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 10-Feb-04 at 08:10 classiccmp@vintage-computer.com wrote: >Is anyone familiar with a DATA I/O MPD 60A Programmer? The model 60 is very limited in its device support, and has long since had zero support from Data I/O. If you're serious about getting a decent device programmer, there's a couple of Unisites up for auction on E-pay at the moment. Just do a search for "Data I/O -(sony,memory,stick)" (Exactly as it looks, complete with parentheses but without the quotes), and you'll turn them up. If you do end up getting a Unisite, get back in touch with me. I can be of further help in getting it going. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech do/t c=o=m "If Salvador Dali had owned a computer, would it have been equipped with surreal ports?" From vcf at siconic.com Wed Feb 11 10:02:22 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:21 2005 Subject: Got a DEC 2000 Alpha server, need help In-Reply-To: <200402110539.i1B5dGk7003075@onyx.spiritone.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 10 Feb 2004, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > > > Does DECUS also still supply licenses for commercial use of VMS? If so, > > > > does anyone have an idea of what their licensed user base is for that? > > > > > > As far as I know, they've never supplied licenses for Commercial Use of > > > OpenVMS. That would be DEC/Compaq/HP. DECUS/Encompass is simply a User > > > Group. > > > > Ok, then I can say quite imperiously that DECUS needs to go away since it > > only seems to be existing to annoy hobbyist VMS users. > > Your reasoning really boggles the mind. Have you bothered to look at > http://www.encompassus.org/ before making these statements? The OpenVMS > Hobbyist Program is a really *tiny* aspect of Encompass. No, I didn't. And having checked, it looks like a general users group for OpenVMS. Ok. What I have been querying about is why hobbyists really need to pay money to use VMS "legally". Does this apply to ALL versions of VMS or just OpenVMS? If it's just for OpenVMS then I can understand that. But if someone wants to copy an older version of VMS from someone else to run their VAX 11/780 and connect it to the internet, would that be "illegal"? > > I just see no reason at this point why DECUS needs to be, and why people > > need to pay money to use VMS in a hobbyist mode. > > They DO NOT have to pay money! You can get FREE MEMBERSHIP that entitles > you to use OpenVMS! I see, you get that through this site: http://www.openvmshobbyist.com/ -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From dan_williams at ntlworld.com Wed Feb 11 10:17:48 2004 From: dan_williams at ntlworld.com (Dan Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:21 2005 Subject: Got a DEC 2000 Alpha server, need help In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <402A55AC.2010104@ntlworld.com> Vintage Computer Festival wrote: >On Tue, 10 Feb 2004, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > > >What I have been querying about is why hobbyists really need to pay money >to use VMS "legally". Does this apply to ALL versions of VMS or just >OpenVMS? If it's just for OpenVMS then I can understand that. But if >someone wants to copy an older version of VMS from someone else to run >their VAX 11/780 and connect it to the internet, would that be "illegal"? > > > I would asssume that it would be illegal if caught, but would it run. I know the latest versions of vms need a valid cluster, vms and decnet license to run. What version did this start at, or did all versions require a license before starting. Dan From allain at panix.com Wed Feb 11 10:25:29 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:21 2005 Subject: Yay - new DEC arrival (not *strictly* on topic. Or is it?) References: <057701c3f043$985e5560$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> <16426.14982.213000.222429@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <04be01c3f0bb$accd6b80$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > So run Linux... > It's not clear if your comparison is right when you look > at floating point arithmetic, especially vector arithmetic. The date of passage is more like 2005-2006. When you consider that the largest compute problems solved anywhere on earth 30 years ago could be solved on any old podunk desktop, it gets a little shocking, and I probably reacted too quickly (and botched the calc.). Still, it's basically next year. Not clear but not far off either. A Cray-1 wasn't exactly a CM-1 in terms of architectural oddity. And agreed Linux Is great and getting more so. John A. From arcarlini at iee.org Wed Feb 11 11:52:04 2004 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:21 2005 Subject: Got a DEC 2000 Alpha server, need help In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <002b01c3f0c7$cace4620$5b01a8c0@athlon> > Does DECUS also still supply licenses for commercial use of > VMS? If so, does anyone have an idea of what their licensed > user base is for that? Did DECUS *ever* supply licences for commercial use of OpenVMS? I know some DEC Partners could do so at some point (probably subject to some restrictions, like it had to be with new hardware perhaps), but I've never heard of DECUS doing that. Even with the Hobbyist program, it's not DECUS that ships (shipped) the licences; the Montagar people use a DECUS membership number as a prerequisite (I guess because when this was all set up the prime movers were also involved with their local DECUS chapters). Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From arcarlini at iee.org Wed Feb 11 12:01:33 2004 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:21 2005 Subject: Got a DEC 2000 Alpha server, need help In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <002c01c3f0c9$1ff5efd0$5b01a8c0@athlon> > No, I didn't. And having checked, it looks like a general > users group for OpenVMS. Ok. It was the DEC (business) USER group, so anything DEC or DEC-related goes. These days that would leave mostly OpenVMS and Tru64 but in days of yore RSX-11 and RSTS and RT-11 and the rest would have featured. > I see, you get that through this site: >http://www.openvmshobbyist.com/ I'm not sure if you now realise that it's free, or still believe that money needs to change hands. Step 1 (JOIN ...) can be done for free (I managed from the UK), and the rest are either optional or merely require a number of electrons to move far enoughfor a few emails to go back and forth. Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From jos.mar at bluewin.ch Wed Feb 11 12:05:23 2004 From: jos.mar at bluewin.ch (Jos Dreesen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:21 2005 Subject: HP 9845B In-Reply-To: <000901c3f019$2d06b9d0$e685fea9@arbeitstier> Message-ID: Christoph Kotter heeft op dinsdag, 10 feb 2004 om 22:02 (Europe/Zurich) het volgende geschreven: > Hi, > > my company is about to through away this computer. > Do you need it ? > Du konntest diese Maschine in der newsgruppe de.alt.folklore.computer anbieten, da gibt es sicherlich Abnemer. mfg Jos Dreesen, Zurich From dwight.elvey at amd.com Wed Feb 11 12:06:51 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:21 2005 Subject: Intel iUP-201 Message-ID: <200402111806.KAA10707@clulw009.amd.com> >From: K6OKL@aol.com > >Hello Dwight- > >Google led me to your discussion with Gilis in the Netherlands a while back >and >I thought you might be able to help with a little problem I have if you were >willing. > >I borrowed an iUP-201 from a friend and it seemed to initialize OK. After I >plugged >in a 27128 ROM to see what was in it, the unit froze and now gives a "Power >Supply Failure" display and won't do anything else. > >I looked inside to see what the four power supplies were up to and it appears >two >of them turn on with commands from the F27/128 module, and were not doing so. Hi I don't have enough information on the insides to help you here. Maybe Joe Rigdon can help. You'll need to get schematics. Dwight > > >The only documentation I have is a Pocket Programmer Reference and it's not >much >help. Do you have any suggestions on how I might troubleshoot this machine >or >at least get some documentation on it? > >Thanks for your help... > >Walt Lindell k6okl@aol.com > From arcarlini at iee.org Wed Feb 11 12:13:20 2004 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:21 2005 Subject: Got a DEC 2000 Alpha server, need help In-Reply-To: <402A55AC.2010104@ntlworld.com> Message-ID: <002f01c3f0ca$c2e603a0$5b01a8c0@athlon> > I would asssume that it would be illegal if caught, but would > it run. I > know the latest versions of vms need a valid cluster, vms and decnet > license to run. What version did this start at, or did all versions > require a license before starting. Before the LMF came in (V5.0 for VMS, I forget what version of Ultrix it started with), the OS would install and run but not allow logins from anywhere other than the console until you installed a licence key tape. This was a kit that just patched LOGINOUT.EXE to change the maximum number of users that would be allowed in. A similar kit changed DECnet functionality from (IIRC) no external connections, through "end node" to "full routing node". I don't think there was anything to stop you handing the kit over to someone else who could then reuse it (other than prison, of course). Remember that in those days trhe smallest machine was a VAX-11/725 and a VAX-11/750 was a more practical minimum size. By the time you'd paid for the hardware (and the air-conditioned room and the 50MB winchesters etc.) you were unlikely to run risk your business and/or University department to save a little added cost. I think the LMF stuff came about for a few reasons that all coincided. The MicroVAX stuff meant smaller departments would begin to buy machines and they would be quite likely to be stuffed into a corner and not managed much (if at all). The advent of the CDROM for distribution meant that there was a need to find a way to stop someone "accidentally" installing everything under the Sun and then claiming that they'd forgotten it was there and noone ever used it anyway. As a security mechanism, LMF is pretty poor. As a way of forcing you to go out of your way to break the law in a way that it is hard to later acknowledge your actions, it is pretty good! Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From marvin at rain.org Wed Feb 11 12:29:36 2004 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:21 2005 Subject: Xerox Monitor Message-ID: <402A7490.6B18F6B3@rain.org> I just ran across this Xerox monitor, and don't recognize it. Is this anything I should keep? http://www.rain.org/~marvin/xerox.jpg From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Wed Feb 11 12:32:24 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:21 2005 Subject: Hobbyist VMS (was: Got a DEC 2000 Alpha server, need help) In-Reply-To: <002c01c3f0c9$1ff5efd0$5b01a8c0@athlon> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Antonio Carlini > Sent: 11 February 2004 18:02 > To: 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts' > Subject: RE: Got a DEC 2000 Alpha server, need help > > I'm not sure if you now realise that it's free, or still > believe that money needs to change hands. > > Step 1 (JOIN ...) can be done for free (I managed from the > UK), and the rest are either optional or merely require a > number of electrons to move far enoughfor a few emails to go > back and forth. Which group did you pick? Going to DECUS-UK lets you subscribe to the site for free, whilst going to ENCOMPASS-US does let you register at non-associate level to get the Hobbyist license but requires an associate ID before you start?! Or would HP get upset if I was using the licenses that were on my Alpha 3000-400 when I got it.....I have the paper copies but they don't have my name at the top..... Cheers -- Adrian/Witchy Owner & Webmaster, Binary Dinosaurs www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From jwstephens at msm.umr.edu Wed Feb 11 12:36:46 2004 From: jwstephens at msm.umr.edu (jim) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:21 2005 Subject: 7 track drive located! References: <200402100609.i1A69SLK006888@spies.com> <00e301c3efe7$0640cde0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <402A763E.40563B26@msm.umr.edu> Al, Jay, you may be able to pull this off with the HP 16500 and State mode output. If you get the 4mb deep trace, you would have a fairly long buffer of data, and might be able to read some long records. If you can get the 16600 or the 16500C with a 16505 remote unit, you can run the analyzer interactively with a linux box and I assume trigger the tape unit to move and stop, so you could essentially digitize the length of the tape. The 16600 analyzer state info would already be able to give you the digital output shown in the link below. Jim Jay West wrote: > Al wrote... > > The plan is to reproduce the setup Paul Pierce has.. Seven high speed A/D > > converters off the head preamps and a lot of DSP software. > > > http://www.piercefuller.com/collect/a7tv.html > > That is just way too cool. Ya'll rock! :) > --- > [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From marvin at rain.org Wed Feb 11 12:37:54 2004 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:21 2005 Subject: Xerox Monitor References: <402A7490.6B18F6B3@rain.org> Message-ID: <402A7682.CF77BECF@rain.org> Oops, just found the machine it goes with (something about 10"wide x 30" high x 36" deep) so I won't toss it now in any case. But I still don't recognize it, and the same question applies. > I just ran across this Xerox monitor, and don't recognize it. Is this > anything I should keep? > > http://www.rain.org/~marvin/xerox.jpg From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Feb 11 12:45:41 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:21 2005 Subject: Yay - new DEC arrival (not *strictly* on topic. Or is it?) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >Not really, I'm running Win2K Pro here on a 'standard' system with half a >gig of RAM which requires me to have a gig's worth of pagefile. Why? Surely >half a gig is enough memory to have all my running processes in memory at >the same time, even if they're inactive? According to the task manager I've >got 210mb 'free', so everything that's running now should stay running and >not get swapped out, but it does. Does Win2K Pro actually *require* you to have that pagefile? I honestly don't know (between 3.1 and XP I didn't use Windows), however, I do know that in WinXP Pro you can turn that pagefile off. I found that with both my wife and I logged in and using the system lightly that could be done with 512Mb, but when I started running heavy memory apps I started to have problems, sinc I've now upgraded the system to 1Gb, and my wife only uses our G5 PowerMac now, I've not had any further problems with having swapping turned off. Now Mac OS X on the other hand seems to have some seriously UGLY swapping (and RAM) requirements (I normally ran Mac OS 9 with swapping turned off), and the system doesn't start feeling usable until you have 768MB RAM or more. Still in spite of this flaw, I'd much rather use our Mac :^) Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From vcf at siconic.com Wed Feb 11 12:45:39 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:21 2005 Subject: Xerox Monitor In-Reply-To: <402A7490.6B18F6B3@rain.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 11 Feb 2004, Marvin Johnston wrote: > I just ran across this Xerox monitor, and don't recognize it. Is this > anything I should keep? > > http://www.rain.org/~marvin/xerox.jpg Looks odd. I've never seen one before. It looks Alto-ish. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From pkoning at equallogic.com Wed Feb 11 12:50:05 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:21 2005 Subject: Xerox Monitor References: <402A7490.6B18F6B3@rain.org> <402A7682.CF77BECF@rain.org> Message-ID: <16426.31069.561187.517547@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Marvin" == Marvin Johnston writes: Marvin> Oops, just found the machine it goes with (something about Marvin> 10"wide x 30" high x 36" deep) so I won't toss it now in any Marvin> case. But I still don't recognize it, and the same question Marvin> applies. >> I just ran across this Xerox monitor, and don't recognize it. Is >> this anything I should keep? >> >> http://www.rain.org/~marvin/xerox.jpg Looks like one of the XEROX workstations, perhaps a STAR or a relative? Check the collection at http://www.digibarn.com/collections/index.html . paul From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Feb 11 12:55:34 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:21 2005 Subject: Xerox Monitor In-Reply-To: <402A7490.6B18F6B3@rain.org> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040211135534.00896aa0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I THINK I saw some of these on some systems in a junkyard a few years ago. They appeared to be dedicated word processors. Joe At 10:29 AM 2/11/04 -0800, you wrote: > >I just ran across this Xerox monitor, and don't recognize it. Is this >anything I should keep? > >http://www.rain.org/~marvin/xerox.jpg > From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Wed Feb 11 13:18:54 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:22 2005 Subject: Yay - new DEC arrival (not *strictly* on topic. Or is it?) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Zane H. Healy > Sent: 11 February 2004 18:46 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: RE: Yay - new DEC arrival (not *strictly* on topic. > Or is it?) > > Does Win2K Pro actually *require* you to have that pagefile? According to 'performance' sites, yes. Haven't tried turning one of them off mind - I've got one on the sys disk and the other on a data disk. It's a quick reboot to turn one off.... > started to have problems, sinc I've now upgraded the system > to 1Gb, and my wife only uses our G5 PowerMac now, I've not > had any further problems with having swapping turned off. Hmm. *ponder*. > with swapping turned off), and the system doesn't start > feeling usable until you have 768MB RAM or more. Still in > spite of this flaw, I'd much rather use our Mac :^) As soon as I get another job I'm buying one :) Cheers -- Adrian/Witchy Owner & Webmaster, Binary Dinosaurs www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Feb 11 12:53:23 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:22 2005 Subject: Intel iUP-201 In-Reply-To: <200402111806.KAA10707@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040211135323.008ba680@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 10:06 AM 2/11/04 -0800, you wrote: > >>From: K6OKL@aol.com >> >>Hello Dwight- >> >>Google led me to your discussion with Gilis in the Netherlands a while back >>and >>I thought you might be able to help with a little problem I have if you were >>willing. >> >>I borrowed an iUP-201 from a friend and it seemed to initialize OK. After I >>plugged >>in a 27128 ROM to see what was in it, the unit froze and now gives a "Power >>Supply Failure" display and won't do anything else. >> >>I looked inside to see what the four power supplies were up to and it appears >>two >>of them turn on with commands from the F27/128 module, and were not doing so. > >Hi > I don't have enough information on the insides to help you here. >Maybe Joe Rigdon can help. You'll need to get schematics. >Dwight > Sorry I don't have schematics either. But I do have a dead 201 so I could use schematics too. Dave Mabry may have some. I'll check. Joe From lists at microvax.org Wed Feb 11 13:52:31 2004 From: lists at microvax.org (meltie) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:22 2005 Subject: Hobbyist VMS (was: Got a DEC 2000 Alpha server, need help) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200402111952.32404.lists@microvax.org> On Wednesday 11 February 2004 18:32, Witchy wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Antonio Carlini > > Sent: 11 February 2004 18:02 > > To: 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts' > > Subject: RE: Got a DEC 2000 Alpha server, need help > > > > I'm not sure if you now realise that it's free, or still > > believe that money needs to change hands. > > > > Step 1 (JOIN ...) can be done for free (I managed from the > > UK), and the rest are either optional or merely require a > > number of electrons to move far enoughfor a few emails to go > > back and forth. > > Which group did you pick? Going to DECUS-UK lets you subscribe to the > site for free, whilst going to ENCOMPASS-US does let you register at > non-associate level to get the Hobbyist license but requires an > associate ID before you start?! Join ENCOMPASS-US at Associate level for free: http://www.encompassus.org/membership/join.html *looks* ooer, you're right - it asks for an Associate ID. I don't remember this bit! Tried putting a generic login-name for yourself? eg: "witchy" ? alex/melt From vcf at siconic.com Wed Feb 11 14:17:52 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:22 2005 Subject: Xerox Monitor In-Reply-To: <402A7682.CF77BECF@rain.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 11 Feb 2004, Marvin Johnston wrote: > Oops, just found the machine it goes with (something about 10"wide x 30" > high x 36" deep) so I won't toss it now in any case. But I still don't > recognize it, and the same question applies. Oh, that sounds like a Xerox WYSIWYG word processor. I can't remember the model number but its definitely worth hanging on to. It is descended somewhat from the Alto line. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From pcw at mesanet.com Wed Feb 11 14:28:35 2004 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:22 2005 Subject: Xerox Monitor In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 11 Feb 2004, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Wed, 11 Feb 2004, Marvin Johnston wrote: > > > Oops, just found the machine it goes with (something about 10"wide x 30" > > high x 36" deep) so I won't toss it now in any case. But I still don't > > recognize it, and the same question applies. > > Oh, that sounds like a Xerox WYSIWYG word processor. I can't remember the > model number but its definitely worth hanging on to. It is descended > somewhat from the Alto line. Monitor looks like maybe a from a 860, dont believe thats related to Alto/Star etc... Peter Wallace From vcf at siconic.com Wed Feb 11 15:12:40 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:22 2005 Subject: Xerox Monitor In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 11 Feb 2004, Peter C. Wallace wrote: > > Oh, that sounds like a Xerox WYSIWYG word processor. I can't remember the > > model number but its definitely worth hanging on to. It is descended > > somewhat from the Alto line. > > Monitor looks like maybe a from a 860, dont believe thats related to > Alto/Star etc... Yap, that's the model. I say it is "descended somewhat" from the Alto line in that it used some of the same GUI technology. Here's some links: DigiBarn's photos http://www.digibarn.com/collections/systems/xerox860/index.html old-computers.com write-up http://www.old-computers.com/museum/computer.asp?st=1&c=488 Neither has any extensive write-up of the 860. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From jcwren at jcwren.com Wed Feb 11 16:00:25 2004 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:22 2005 Subject: Altair 8800B sells for $2651 Message-ID: <402AA5F9.4020809@jcwren.com> That Altair that was on eBay < http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2784770538 > sold for $2651. Sheesh. I have no real idea of their value, but my gut feeling was it was going to go between $1400 and $1700. $2651 surprised me. --jc From brad at heeltoe.com Wed Feb 11 16:00:58 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:22 2005 Subject: ever de-rack a TS11? Message-ID: <200402112200.i1BM0wh32248@mwave.heeltoe.com> Has anyone ever removed a TS-11 from a rack? Any advice? I assume the first thing to do it to remove the door (after disconnecting all the cables :-) Once the door is odd it looks like the front screws will allow the frame to slide forward and out. Is the frame heavy? (i.e. can one person remove it?) -brad From brad at heeltoe.com Wed Feb 11 16:24:49 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:22 2005 Subject: huge 2 bay 19" rack with 2x 6000btu a/c built in Message-ID: <200402112224.i1BMOnN32658@mwave.heeltoe.com> I, um, well, ended up with a vax 11/730 from a military site. I'm removing all the boxes from the racks and what's left is a *very* robust cabinet on wheels containing two 19" racks and two 6000 btu a/c units on the back. There are plexi doors on the front and the whole thing seals up very tight. Quite the thing if you have sensative equipment you want to rack mount and keep cool in a harsh environment. The A/C units are 115VAC. I don't know if they actually work but they sure look like they do. The units are a little dirty but in fine shape mechanically. And they have a nifty "d-i-g-i-t-a-l" logo on the front in blue and red. The whole thing is wired up with nice DEC power modules and power switches on the front. If anyone on the east coast would like these units, please call/email me. I may try to sell them on ebay (hah) but I thought I'd mention it here. Most likely I'll have to pay someone to haul them away :-) I suspect they weight a few hundred pounds empty but have large wheels so they can roll easily. I can provide a picture in a few days once I'm done de-racking. (and, woo - hoo - I now have an RL02! :-) -brad From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Wed Feb 11 16:27:53 2004 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:22 2005 Subject: DECUS (Was Got a DEC 2000 Alpha server, need help) Message-ID: David V. Corbin" wrote >It is interesting how times change. When I was heavily involved in DECUS >['77-'91] it was a resource who's worth was almost beyond calculation. Now I >hear these types of discussions. > >On a related front, makes me wonder why I keep up my IEEE >membership.......... > > >David. I just dropped my IEEE membership after 30 years. Mike From vcf at siconic.com Wed Feb 11 16:38:59 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:22 2005 Subject: Altair 8800B sells for $2651 In-Reply-To: <402AA5F9.4020809@jcwren.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 11 Feb 2004, J.C. Wren wrote: > That Altair that was on eBay < > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2784770538 > sold for > $2651. Sheesh. > > I have no real idea of their value, but my gut feeling was it was going > to go between $1400 and $1700. $2651 surprised me. It's a B model even. The disk drive subsystem that comes with it looks to be in ratty shape, but it does have software is a plus. The ADM 3A+ is not that hard to find. "Winning bidder must pick up!" Overall, a decent system, but I would agree that $2651 is way too high. $1,400-$1,500 is certainly more like it. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From waltje at pdp11.nl Wed Feb 11 17:23:15 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:22 2005 Subject: huge 2 bay 19" rack with 2x 6000btu a/c built in In-Reply-To: <200402112224.i1BMOnN32658@mwave.heeltoe.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 11 Feb 2004, Brad Parker wrote: > I, um, well, ended up with a vax 11/730 from a military site. Nice find!!! > mechanically. And they have a nifty "d-i-g-i-t-a-l" logo on the front > in blue and red. The whole thing is wired up with nice DEC power > modules and power switches on the front. Coool! Pictures wanted, indeed! --f From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Wed Feb 11 17:52:58 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:22 2005 Subject: huge 2 bay 19" rack with 2x 6000btu a/c built in In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Fred N. van Kempen > Sent: 11 February 2004 23:23 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: huge 2 bay 19" rack with 2x 6000btu a/c built in > > On Wed, 11 Feb 2004, Brad Parker wrote: > > > I, um, well, ended up with a vax 11/730 from a military site. > Nice find!!! > > > mechanically. And they have a nifty "d-i-g-i-t-a-l" logo > on the front > > in blue and red. The whole thing is wired up with nice DEC power > > modules and power switches on the front. > Coool! Pictures wanted, indeed! I know I'm replying to Fred here but I've deleted Brad's message for some reason - was this the pair of cabs that someone on here mentioned last week or so? Sounds very familiar and fridge-like...... Cheers w From dvcorbin at optonline.net Wed Feb 11 20:43:50 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:22 2005 Subject: huge 2 bay 19" rack with 2x 6000btu a/c built in In-Reply-To: <200402112224.i1BMOnN32658@mwave.heeltoe.com> Message-ID: I am interested. Don't know if it will work out, but definately interested. Long Island. NY Looking forward to hearing from you. David V. Corbin dvcorbin@optonline.net -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Brad Parker Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2004 5:25 PM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: huge 2 bay 19" rack with 2x 6000btu a/c built in I, um, well, ended up with a vax 11/730 from a military site. I'm removing all the boxes from the racks and what's left is a *very* robust cabinet on wheels containing two 19" racks and two 6000 btu a/c units on the back. There are plexi doors on the front and the whole thing seals up very tight. Quite the thing if you have sensative equipment you want to rack mount and keep cool in a harsh environment. The A/C units are 115VAC. I don't know if they actually work but they sure look like they do. The units are a little dirty but in fine shape mechanically. And they have a nifty "d-i-g-i-t-a-l" logo on the front in blue and red. The whole thing is wired up with nice DEC power modules and power switches on the front. If anyone on the east coast would like these units, please call/email me. I may try to sell them on ebay (hah) but I thought I'd mention it here. Most likely I'll have to pay someone to haul them away :-) I suspect they weight a few hundred pounds empty but have large wheels so they can roll easily. I can provide a picture in a few days once I'm done de-racking. (and, woo - hoo - I now have an RL02! :-) -brad From d_cymbal at hotmail.com Wed Feb 11 21:29:17 2004 From: d_cymbal at hotmail.com (Damien Cymbal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:22 2005 Subject: vintage vacuum tube electronic test equipment Message-ID: If anyone is interested in the following, it is free for pickup (in the neighborhood of Salem, NH I believe). Please contact Marty at: mpdts20004@yahoo.com ===== > Hickok mdl 539B tube tester W/crt adapter > Dumont mdl 304-A o'scope > HP mdl 623B frequency/time counter > EICO mdl 304 signal generator (I built from a kit while attending Mass Radio School in 1961) > > Note: I haven't used any of this equipment since the 70's. From brad at heeltoe.com Wed Feb 11 21:39:01 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:22 2005 Subject: huge 2 bay 19" rack with 2x 6000btu a/c built in In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 11 Feb 2004 21:43:50 EST." Message-ID: <200402120339.i1C3d1v04458@mwave.heeltoe.com> "David V. Corbin" wrote: >I am interested. Don't know if it will work out, but definately interested. I'm outside Boston - is that too far? >Long Island. NY -brad From sastevens at earthlink.net Wed Feb 11 21:40:11 2004 From: sastevens at earthlink.net (Scott Stevens) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:22 2005 Subject: Fluke 8100A manual In-Reply-To: <200402100321.i1A3KqOH000372@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040211223330.05d3dab0@pop.earthlink.net> At 09:21 PM 2/9/2004 -0600, you wrote: >Anybody have one they would be willing to copy for this nixie multimeter? > >Thanks, >David Gesswein >http://www.pdp8.net/ -- Run an old computer with blinkenlights. I don't have a Fluke 8100 anymore, but at one point I did. Just a warning from my experience with it: Be very careful working inside that meter. Fluke was fairly casual about the routing of the high voltage traces. Well, probably not in terms of performance - it's a great meter - but certainly in terms of safety and reliability. I had several of those meters and at one point a solder splash hit just the wrong spot on the circuit when the meter was open, and the next time it was powered up it pumped the high Nixie voltage into the low voltage circuit. It let out a lot of smoke. The high voltage lines (at least one of them) are routed right through the board unprotected and uninsulated. Scott -------------- next part -------------- --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.581 / Virus Database: 368 - Release Date: 2/9/2004 From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Wed Feb 11 21:51:44 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:22 2005 Subject: Straight 8 -- front panel repair References: <9B832BEB407A774AA0520CCFC2322197020CE936@CXOEXC11.AMERICAS.CPQCORP.NET> Message-ID: <402AF850.5080706@jetnet.ab.ca> McCollum, Peter wrote: > Hi all, > Just joined up. > I have a straight-8 in the garage (not working, but repairable I think) with an ASR-33. No other perpherals. > Also have an 8-E (almost working I think). It has several option/IO cards in it, but no actual perpherals. > > I started with DEC in 1981, in a Test Engineering group for Storage. > > Here's my first question: > What should I do about the glass on the straight-8 front panel? The paint markings are peeling off. > Is there a recommended way to preserve it? > Or, has anyone made a graphic template that can be used to print a new panel, and put it behind a piece of plain glass? > > Regards, > Pete You need to get in touch with this guy about getting your straight 8 working. His 8 has suffered major damage and needs major parts like a core memory and backplane and front panel. See this web site for details. http://nisler.org/crash/ ** warning -- not for the faint hearted ** I am also posting this to classic computers since a lot of people have 8's there. A replacement front panel and other parts may be a good group effort for the people that still have straight 8's. Ben. From nospam212-classiccmp at yahoo.com Wed Feb 11 22:17:01 2004 From: nospam212-classiccmp at yahoo.com (nospam212-classiccmp@yahoo.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:22 2005 Subject: APF Imagination Machine In-Reply-To: <004701c3eccc$e708c120$0300a8c0@look.ca> Message-ID: <20040212041701.35015.qmail@web80506.mail.yahoo.com> Any ideas on the value of an APF Imagination Machine with a few carts and cassette tapes? Can't find either of my collectible computer books to get and idea so I thought I'd try asking here. Found one of my books just now that rates it between $25-$50 but I suspect this is worth more than that. No box but the software and manuals. Any thoughts? Thanks. ===== ----- "When the mind is free of any thought or judgement, then and only then can we know things as they are." David Williams dlwfanservice@sbcglobal.com From curt at atarimuseum.com Wed Feb 11 22:24:46 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:22 2005 Subject: APF Imagination Machine In-Reply-To: <20040212041701.35015.qmail@web80506.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040212041701.35015.qmail@web80506.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <402B000E.8020906@atarimuseum.com> Definitely in the $100+ range, with games obviously more... if you had the original box, well then.... Curt nospam212-classiccmp@yahoo.com wrote: >Any ideas on the value of an APF Imagination Machine >with a few carts and cassette tapes? Can't find >either of my collectible computer books to get and >idea so I thought I'd try asking here. Found one of >my books just now that rates it between $25-$50 but I >suspect this is worth more than that. No box but the >software and manuals. Any thoughts? > >Thanks. > > >===== >----- > "When the mind is free of any thought or judgement, then and only then can we > know things as they are." > >David Williams >dlwfanservice@sbcglobal.com > > > -- Curt Vendel & Karl Morris ----------------------------------------------------------------------- The Atari Museum http://www.atarimuseum.com The Atari Explorer http://www.atari-explorer.com From vcf at siconic.com Wed Feb 11 23:17:33 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:22 2005 Subject: Straight 8 -- front panel repair In-Reply-To: <402AF850.5080706@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, 11 Feb 2004, ben franchuk wrote: > McCollum, Peter wrote: > > Hi all, > > Just joined up. > > I have a straight-8 in the garage (not working, but repairable I think) with an ASR-33. No other perpherals. > > Also have an 8-E (almost working I think). It has several option/IO cards in it, but no actual perpherals. > > > > I started with DEC in 1981, in a Test Engineering group for Storage. > > > > Here's my first question: > > What should I do about the glass on the straight-8 front panel? The paint markings are peeling off. > > Is there a recommended way to preserve it? > > Or, has anyone made a graphic template that can be used to print a new panel, and put it behind a piece of plain glass? > > > > Regards, > > Pete > > You need to get in touch with this guy about getting your straight 8 > working. His 8 has suffered major damage and needs major parts like a > core memory and backplane and front panel. See this web site for > details. http://nisler.org/crash/ ** warning -- not for the faint > hearted ** I am also posting this to classic computers since a lot of > people have 8's there. A replacement front panel and other parts may be > a good group effort for the people that still have straight 8's. Nisler's PDP-8 is scrap. It can be restored, but I think it makes no sense whatsoever to take apart Pete's PDP-8 to supply parts for Nisler's machine. It should be the other way around if anything. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Wed Feb 11 23:30:05 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:22 2005 Subject: Help ID this bizarro Sound Blaster Message-ID: I have a Sound Blaster CT1600 with an odd daughterboard attached by a 40-pin ribbon cable. The daughterboard, labelled CT1331, actually plugs into an adjacent slot and just has a socket for the ribbon cable, a bunch of diodes (17 to be exact) which I assume are some sort of protection for the signals coming off the card, and a DC-37 connector on the outside. Nothing googles up. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Wed Feb 11 23:43:20 2004 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:22 2005 Subject: FW: Query on Data I/O model 19 Message-ID: <200402112143200726.023FAE83@192.168.42.129> Could someone who owns a Data I/O System 19 device programmer please see if you can answer this gent's question? Being that my education on DIO stuff started with the 29B, and continued to the Unisite, I'm not going to be of much help. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= From: jack.rubin@ameritech.net Simple question - I have a Data I/O System 19 and I'm curious about decoding the config code I get when I run the config check - output is 41A4. You seem to have lots of Data I/O info - can you help? Thanks. Jack -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Please direct replies to Jack. Thanks much. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech do/t c=o=m "If Salvador Dali had owned a computer, would it have been equipped with surreal ports?" From nospam212-classiccmp at yahoo.com Wed Feb 11 23:47:02 2004 From: nospam212-classiccmp at yahoo.com (nospam212-classiccmp@yahoo.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:22 2005 Subject: APF Imagination Machine In-Reply-To: <402B000E.8020906@atarimuseum.com> Message-ID: <20040212054702.19851.qmail@web80507.mail.yahoo.com> That's about what I was thinking. --- Curt Vendel wrote: > Definitely in the $100+ range, with games obviously > more... if you had > the original box, well then.... > > > > > Curt From vcf at siconic.com Wed Feb 11 23:50:18 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:22 2005 Subject: Need drivers for Bernoulli PC2/PC2B interface Message-ID: I need to get a Bernoulli Box hooked up. I've got two IOmega PC2/PC2B interfaces but no drivers. I've found drivers for Linux (which is a fallback option), but I'd like to just do this in DOS to keep it simple. Now, I need the drivers for these cards so I can hook up my Bernoulli Box (CDS-PC/20) to my PC. However, the PC2 card is basically just a SCSI interface. Will the Bernoulli Box work with any SCSI interface? THANKS! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From pat at computer-refuge.org Wed Feb 11 23:57:29 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:22 2005 Subject: Help ID this bizarro Sound Blaster In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200402120057.29280.pat@computer-refuge.org> On Thursday 12 February 2004 00:30, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > I have a Sound Blaster CT1600 with an odd daughterboard attached by a > 40-pin ribbon cable. The daughterboard, labelled CT1331, actually > plugs into an adjacent slot and just has a socket for the ribbon > cable, a bunch of diodes (17 to be exact) which I assume are some > sort of protection for the signals coming off the card, and a DC-37 > connector on the outside. >From looking at a picture of a CT1600 (SB Pro 2) on ebay, I'm willing to bet (Over 93.6% sure!) that the 40-pin header is for a CDROM drive of some type, and the 2nd card is there so you can use the CDROM in an external case of some sort. In fact, looking at this page (can't get the real site to load, so using the google cache: http://216.239.41.104/search?q=cache:fj4ZEFuJ0m0J:th99.pley.org/i/i16snd_1.htm+CT1600+sound+blaster+cd-rom&hl=en&ie=UTF-8 Search down the page for CT1600, and you'll see it has a "CD-ROM interface". So, I'm pretty sure that's what the board is for. Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ From vcf at siconic.com Thu Feb 12 00:01:20 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:22 2005 Subject: Need drivers for Bernoulli PC2/PC2B interface In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 11 Feb 2004, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > I need to get a Bernoulli Box hooked up. I've got two IOmega PC2/PC2B > interfaces but no drivers. > > I've found drivers for Linux (which is a fallback option), but I'd like to > just do this in DOS to keep it simple. > > Now, I need the drivers for these cards so I can hook up my Bernoulli Box > (CDS-PC/20) to my PC. However, the PC2 card is basically just a SCSI > interface. Will the Bernoulli Box work with any SCSI interface? I think I found them. IOmega referred me to this website: http://www.cometenterprises.com/ ...which has a drivers section which seems to have DOS drivers for the 8" Bernoulli Box drives. I donwloaded it and will test it and report back in case anyone cares. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Thu Feb 12 00:02:46 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:22 2005 Subject: Help ID this bizarro Sound Blaster In-Reply-To: <200402120057.29280.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: On Thu, 12 Feb 2004, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > From looking at a picture of a CT1600 (SB Pro 2) on ebay, I'm willing to > bet (Over 93.6% sure!) that the 40-pin header is for a CDROM drive of > some type, and the 2nd card is there so you can use the CDROM in an > external case of some sort. > > In fact, looking at this page (can't get the real site to load, so using > the google cache: > http://216.239.41.104/search?q=cache:fj4ZEFuJ0m0J:th99.pley.org/i/i16snd_1.htm+CT1600+sound+blaster+cd-rom&hl=en&ie=UTF-8 > Search down the page for CT1600, and you'll see it has a "CD-ROM > interface". So, I'm pretty sure that's what the board is for. Ok, makes sense. Thanks! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From jcwren at jcwren.com Thu Feb 12 00:27:53 2004 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:22 2005 Subject: Help ID this bizarro Sound Blaster In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <402B1CE9.9020500@jcwren.com> Vintage Computer Festival wrote: >I have a Sound Blaster CT1600 with an odd daughterboard attached by a >40-pin ribbon cable. The daughterboard, labelled CT1331, actually plugs >into an adjacent slot and just has a socket for the ribbon cable, a bunch >of diodes (17 to be exact) which I assume are some sort of protection for >the signals coming off the card, and a DC-37 connector on the outside. > >Nothing googles up. > > > A google for CT1331 reveals "CT1331 External CD-ROM Pass-Through Card" from < http://www.atariarchives.org/cfn/12/05/03/0546.php > --jc From teoz at neo.rr.com Thu Feb 12 00:28:33 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:22 2005 Subject: Help ID this bizarro Sound Blaster References: Message-ID: <001601c3f131$72b3bfa0$d7281941@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vintage Computer Festival" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2004 1:02 AM Subject: Re: Help ID this bizarro Sound Blaster > On Thu, 12 Feb 2004, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > > > From looking at a picture of a CT1600 (SB Pro 2) on ebay, I'm willing to > > bet (Over 93.6% sure!) that the 40-pin header is for a CDROM drive of > > some type, and the 2nd card is there so you can use the CDROM in an > > external case of some sort. > > > > In fact, looking at this page (can't get the real site to load, so using > > the google cache: > > http://216.239.41.104/search?q=cache:fj4ZEFuJ0m0J:th99.pley.org/i/i16snd_1.htm+CT1600+sound+blaster+cd-rom&hl=en&ie=UTF-8 > > Search down the page for CT1600, and you'll see it has a "CD-ROM > > interface". So, I'm pretty sure that's what the board is for. > > Ok, makes sense. > > Thanks! > > Yes that's what it is. I have an old setup like here somewhere in my parts bin. The difference is mine had a Molex power connector on the second card (so the internal PC supply provided power to the external cdrom). From arcarlini at iee.org Thu Feb 12 03:59:39 2004 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:22 2005 Subject: Hobbyist VMS (was: Got a DEC 2000 Alpha server, need help) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001701c3f14e$f28ce950$5b01a8c0@athlon> > Which group did you pick? Going to DECUS-UK lets you > subscribe to the site for free, whilst going to ENCOMPASS-US > does let you register at non-associate level to get the > Hobbyist license but requires an associate ID before you start?! I don't remember, but the email I got back was from encompass so I assume that's the route I took. > Or would HP get upset if I was using the licenses that were > on my Alpha 3000-400 when I got it.....I have the paper > copies but they don't have my name at the top..... If HP find out (and remember that they the guys who own Digital :-)) they might consider getting upset. Worth having the Hobbyist licences just to avoid the hassle! Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From arcarlini at iee.org Thu Feb 12 04:03:02 2004 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:22 2005 Subject: Hobbyist VMS (was: Got a DEC 2000 Alpha server, need help) In-Reply-To: <200402111952.32404.lists@microvax.org> Message-ID: <001801c3f14f$68332ac0$5b01a8c0@athlon> > ooer, you're right - it asks for an Associate ID. > I don't remember this > bit! Tried putting a generic login-name for yourself? eg: "witchy" ? If that fails, and leaving it blank or filled with spaces fails, send them an email and ask? -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From dvcorbin at optonline.net Thu Feb 12 05:24:10 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:22 2005 Subject: huge 2 bay 19" rack with 2x 6000btu a/c built in In-Reply-To: <200402120339.i1C3d1v04458@mwave.heeltoe.com> Message-ID: Let me see if I can get a truck for this weekend. If someone else is interested, let them have them, buts lets see if we can save them from the scrapper! ps: Lets take this off-list. dvcorbin@optonline.net or david@dynamicconcepts.us -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Brad Parker Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2004 10:39 PM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: huge 2 bay 19" rack with 2x 6000btu a/c built in "David V. Corbin" wrote: >I am interested. Don't know if it will work out, but definately interested. I'm outside Boston - is that too far? >Long Island. NY -brad From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Thu Feb 12 05:34:50 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:22 2005 Subject: Hobbyist VMS (was: Got a DEC 2000 Alpha server, need help) In-Reply-To: <001801c3f14f$68332ac0$5b01a8c0@athlon> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Antonio Carlini > Sent: 12 February 2004 10:03 > To: 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts' > Subject: RE: Hobbyist VMS (was: Got a DEC 2000 Alpha server, > need help) > > > ooer, you're right - it asks for an Associate ID. > > I don't remember this > > bit! Tried putting a generic login-name for yourself? eg: "witchy" ? > > If that fails, and leaving it blank or filled with spaces > fails, send them an email and ask? All sorted, the field just had to be filled in. *rubs hands in glee* Cheers -- Adrian/Witchy Owner & Webmaster, Binary Dinosaurs www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From huw.davies at kerberos.davies.net.au Thu Feb 12 04:26:04 2004 From: huw.davies at kerberos.davies.net.au (Huw Davies) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:22 2005 Subject: Got a DEC 2000 Alpha server, need help In-Reply-To: <002f01c3f0ca$c2e603a0$5b01a8c0@athlon> References: <002f01c3f0ca$c2e603a0$5b01a8c0@athlon> Message-ID: On 12 Feb 2004, at 05:13, Antonio Carlini wrote: > I think the LMF stuff came about for a few reasons > that all coincided. The MicroVAX stuff meant smaller > departments would begin to buy machines and they would > be quite likely to be stuffed into a corner and not > managed much (if at all). The advent of the CDROM > for distribution meant that there was a need to > find a way to stop someone "accidentally" installing > everything under the Sun and then claiming that > they'd forgotten it was there and noone ever used > it anyway. As a security mechanism, LMF is pretty > poor. As a way of forcing you to go out of your > way to break the law in a way that it is hard to > later acknowledge your actions, it is pretty good! LMF is the Licence Management Facility not the Licence Enforcement Utility. It was designed to allow customers to manage their licences but as you point out, if you "accidentally" installed licences you weren't entitled to, DEC could have used the LMF to point out the errors of your ways. LMF is reasonably easy to circumvent but I'm not going to suggest that you do, or help you do it. Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@kerberos.davies.net.au Melbourne | "If soccer was meant to be played in the Australia | air, the sky would be painted green" From TRASH3 at splab.cas.neu.edu Thu Feb 12 08:46:23 2004 From: TRASH3 at splab.cas.neu.edu (TRASH3@splab.cas.neu.edu) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:22 2005 Subject: Need drivers for Bernoulli PC2/PC2B interface Message-ID: <040212094623.2b96f@splab.cas.neu.edu> Sellam, I have a few Bernoulli 150 drives set up on machines currently. They can read from 60 to 150Mb disks. I have both the SCSI and the IDE versions. I could not tell exactly what Bernoulli box you were trying to hook up. I have the OADDOS software that came with the Bernoulli drives, or if you have disks that fit my drives, I can read them. Joe Heck From jmestill at earthlink.net Wed Feb 11 15:07:34 2004 From: jmestill at earthlink.net (John Estill) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:22 2005 Subject: Anyone ever seen a Greyhound Computer? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <402A9996.8090606@earthlink.net> That sounds right. Greyhound operated a service bureau in San Francisco about the same time. John Estill TRASIOL@cs.com wrote: >I believe you will find that GREYHOUND was nothing more than a leasing >organization and dealt primarily (if not exclusively) with IBM Main Frames. When I >was Director, Central DP Division for the State of Delaware (1973), I leased >systems from Greyhound at greatly reduced rates (saving the taxpayers' money). > >Art Hill > > > From pgor at thestar.co.za Thu Feb 12 07:04:39 2004 From: pgor at thestar.co.za (Patrick Gorman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:22 2005 Subject: Chips Message-ID: <4.3.1.2.20040212150324.00a7b360@gtrnews.argus.co.za> I am looking for the MC 679 P chips. If you still have them I would like to get my hands on them. Thanking you Patrick Gorman ***************************************************************************** "Private, Confidential & Privileged" This e-mail, and any files and attachments transmitted with it, is confidential and/or privileged. It is intended solely for the use of the intended recipient. Any views and opinions expressed are those of the individual author/sender and are not necessarily shared or endorsed by Independent News & Media SA (Pty) Ltd, Independent Newspapers (Pty) Ltd or any associated or related company. The content of this e-mail, and any file or attachment transmitted with it, may have been changed or altered without the consent of the author. If you are not the intended recipient, please note that any review, dissemination, disclosure, alteration, printing, circulation or transmission of this e-mail, and/or any file or attachment transmitted with it, is prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this e-mail or any file attachment transmitted with it, in error, please notify Independent News & Media SA (Pty) Ltd, Independent Newspapers (Pty) Ltd or any associated or related company, by e-mailing admin@independent.co.za ***************************************************************************** From stuart at zen.co.uk Thu Feb 12 08:11:59 2004 From: stuart at zen.co.uk (stuart) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:22 2005 Subject: anyone have a CBM PET acoustic coupler? In-Reply-To: <402A3179.8090602@jcwren.com> Message-ID: <200402121424.i1CEO7OD025022@huey.classiccmp.org> Hi all, Can anyone help me out - I'm looking for an acoustic coupler and card for a PET in the UK. Any other interesting PET items would also be welcome :) Thanks. Stu From waltje at pdp11.nl Thu Feb 12 08:50:06 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:22 2005 Subject: DEC question: DVD drives and/or CDROM changers Message-ID: Hi All, Just a thought. Did anyone ever try to connect DVD drives, or CDROM changers, to VAX-class machines, such as 3100's or InfoServers? I *would* assume InfoServer cant handle the DVD data format, although newer VMS systems might. How do they deal with multiple-LUN devices such as changers? Cheers, Fred -- Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist Visit the VAXlab Project at http://VAXlab.pdp11.nl/ Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Mountain View, CA, USA From curt at atarimuseum.com Thu Feb 12 09:02:39 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:22 2005 Subject: DEC question: DVD drives and/or CDROM changers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <402B958F.1070801@atarimuseum.com> Problem I've run into is that the older vax'es don't play well with many non-Dec CD-ROM drives due to a firmware issue and I've had to go out and hunt a real DEC cd-rom.... the Alpha's are far more flexible and play well with more common parts. Certain Toshiba cd-roms and vaxes get along nicely, I had an older NEC multispin work on a Microvax II at one point if I recall.... DVD's would only be viewed as cd-roms if you could get them to be accessible at all.... if you've got a nice supply of drives to tinker with, its worth doing some trial and error research. Curt Curt Fred N. van Kempen wrote: >Hi All, > >Just a thought. Did anyone ever try to connect DVD drives, >or CDROM changers, to VAX-class machines, such as 3100's or >InfoServers? > >I *would* assume InfoServer cant handle the DVD data format, >although newer VMS systems might. How do they deal with >multiple-LUN devices such as changers? > >Cheers, > Fred > > -- Curt Vendel & Karl Morris ----------------------------------------------------------------------- The Atari Museum http://www.atarimuseum.com The Atari Explorer http://www.atari-explorer.com From rdd at rddavis.org Thu Feb 12 09:15:43 2004 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:22 2005 Subject: Hobbyist VMS (was: Got a DEC 2000 Alpha server, need help) In-Reply-To: <200402111952.32404.lists@microvax.org> References: <200402111952.32404.lists@microvax.org> Message-ID: <20040212151038.GV21247@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe meltie, from writings of Wed, Feb 11, 2004 at 07:52:31PM +0000: > Join ENCOMPASS-US at Associate level for free: > http://www.encompassus.org/membership/join.html The prats at HP demand a credit card number and $90---which they're not getting from me. There is no option for a free associate level. -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From at258 at osfn.org Thu Feb 12 09:17:55 2004 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:22 2005 Subject: Xerox Monitor In-Reply-To: Message-ID: The 860 is a CP/M machine. Big sucker. On Wed, 11 Feb 2004, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Wed, 11 Feb 2004, Peter C. Wallace wrote: > > > > Oh, that sounds like a Xerox WYSIWYG word processor. I can't remember the > > > model number but its definitely worth hanging on to. It is descended > > > somewhat from the Alto line. > > > > Monitor looks like maybe a from a 860, dont believe thats related to > > Alto/Star etc... > > Yap, that's the model. > > I say it is "descended somewhat" from the Alto line in that it used some > of the same GUI technology. > > Here's some links: > > DigiBarn's photos > http://www.digibarn.com/collections/systems/xerox860/index.html > > old-computers.com write-up > http://www.old-computers.com/museum/computer.asp?st=1&c=488 > > Neither has any extensive write-up of the 860. > > -- M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Thu Feb 12 09:32:05 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:22 2005 Subject: Hobbyist VMS (was: Got a DEC 2000 Alpha server, need help) In-Reply-To: <20040212151038.GV21247@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of R. D. Davis > Sent: 12 February 2004 15:11 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: Hobbyist VMS (was: Got a DEC 2000 Alpha server, > need help) > > The prats at HP demand a credit card number and $90---which > they're not getting from me. There is no option for a free > associate level. But if you only want hobbyist VMS you go here: https://secure2.sba.com/encompass/memberApp/associate.cfm Which is free, gratis and for nothing. Cheers From waltje at pdp11.nl Thu Feb 12 09:30:44 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:22 2005 Subject: DEC question: DVD drives and/or CDROM changers In-Reply-To: <402B958F.1070801@atarimuseum.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 12 Feb 2004, Curt Vendel wrote: > Problem I've run into is that the older vax'es don't play well with many > non-Dec CD-ROM drives due to a firmware issue and I've had to go out and > hunt a real DEC cd-rom.... the Alpha's are far more flexible and play > well with more common parts. True, although I have had success with most of the drives I ended up with. > Certain Toshiba cd-roms and vaxes get along nicely, I had an older NEC > multispin work on a Microvax II at one point if I recall.... DVD's > would only be viewed as cd-roms if you could get them to be accessible > at all.... if you've got a nice supply of drives to tinker with, its > worth doing some trial and error research. Yeah, I have about, hrrm, oh, 200 drives splattered across the place, so I can play. I *know* that most NEC, Toshiba and all of the Plextor drives are OK. Most older CD-writers are, too. I have a box of JVC DVD players, I will probably hook em up to an 3100 and see what happens... likewise for the Nakamichi CD changers. (it will be fun to set up an 3100 with 2 SCSI channels as an InfoServer, with 2 external towers loaded with Nakamichi CD changers and a couple DVD drives... ;-) --f From waltje at pdp11.nl Thu Feb 12 09:34:49 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:22 2005 Subject: Hobbyist VMS (was: Got a DEC 2000 Alpha server, need help) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 12 Feb 2004, Witchy wrote: > But if you only want hobbyist VMS you go here: > > https://secure2.sba.com/encompass/memberApp/associate.cfm > > Which is free, gratis and for nothing. I have been waiting for my "approval" for many moons now, so pretty much gave up on them. Besides, I dont need them :) --f From dittman at dittman.net Thu Feb 12 09:40:55 2004 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:23 2005 Subject: Hobbyist VMS (was: Got a DEC 2000 Alpha server, need help) In-Reply-To: <20040212151038.GV21247@rhiannon.rddavis.org> from "R. D. Davis" at Feb 12, 2004 10:10:38 AM Message-ID: <20040212154055.8B5BE7F82@narnia.int.dittman.net> > > Join ENCOMPASS-US at Associate level for free: > > http://www.encompassus.org/membership/join.html > > The prats at HP demand a credit card number and $90---which they're > not getting from me. There is no option for a free associate level. Encompass is a separate entity from HP. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Thu Feb 12 09:49:20 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:23 2005 Subject: Hobbyist VMS (was: Got a DEC 2000 Alpha server, need help) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Fred N. van Kempen > Sent: 12 February 2004 15:35 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: RE: Hobbyist VMS (was: Got a DEC 2000 Alpha server, > need help) > > I have been waiting for my "approval" for many moons now, so > pretty much gave up on them. Besides, I dont need them :) So it's not 7-10 business days then eh? *huff* I was pleased to read on the hobbyist FAQ that you just need to keep reregistering yer paks when they expire after 12 months....... Cheers -- Adrian/Witchy Owner & Webmaster, Binary Dinosaurs www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From waltje at pdp11.nl Thu Feb 12 09:51:44 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:23 2005 Subject: Hobbyist VMS (was: Got a DEC 2000 Alpha server, need help) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 12 Feb 2004, Witchy wrote: > So it's not 7-10 business days then eh? *huff* Not in my case. Which is strange, considering all my info is U.S.-based ... > I was pleased to read on the hobbyist FAQ that you just need to keep > reregistering yer paks when they expire after 12 months....... Yes, they do. Meaning you also have to renew membership :) --f From arcarlini at iee.org Thu Feb 12 10:18:16 2004 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:23 2005 Subject: DEC question: DVD drives and/or CDROM changers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <002e01c3f183$daad5bf0$5b01a8c0@athlon> > > Certain Toshiba cd-roms and vaxes get along nicely, I had > an older NEC > > multispin work on a Microvax II at one point if I > recall.... DVD's > > would only be viewed as cd-roms if you could get them to be > accessible > > at all.... if you've got a nice supply of drives to > tinker with, its > > worth doing some trial and error research. > Yeah, I have about, hrrm, oh, 200 drives splattered across > the place, so I can play. I *know* that most NEC, Toshiba > and all of the Plextor drives are OK. Most older CD-writers are, too. I've never tried a non-DEC CDROM (never had to) but I do have a Yamaha CDRW which no longer writes, so I may try it out sometime. If it can be persuaded to do 512-byte blocks it will work, if it can't, it probably won't. The other rule of thumb is that if it works on Sun it probably works on a VAX (and vice-versa). I do not know if the InfoServer ESS code uses 10-bit SCSI commands and hence has an issue with drives greater than 1GB. I assume not because someone would have tried it by now and said so, but ... If you write your own DVDs and use ODS2 I doubt the infoserver would know the difference - just serves blocks doesn't it? It might even serve data DVDs even in UDF format. Streaming your latest movies might be a stretch though! > I have a box of JVC DVD players, I will probably hook em up > to an 3100 and see what happens... likewise for the Nakamichi > CD changers. Changes usually appear as sub-luns don't they? If so, then I think the OpenVMS driver can cope (that is, IIRC, why the naming convention is as it is - to allow for this very possibility). Let us know whether ESS sees multiple drives or not. Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From vcf at siconic.com Thu Feb 12 10:28:30 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:23 2005 Subject: Help ID this bizarro Sound Blaster In-Reply-To: <402B1CE9.9020500@jcwren.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 12 Feb 2004, J.C. Wren wrote: > A google for CT1331 reveals "CT1331 External CD-ROM Pass-Through Card" > from < http://www.atariarchives.org/cfn/12/05/03/0546.php > You must be using a different Google than me because I do not see that link coming up. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Thu Feb 12 10:31:43 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:23 2005 Subject: Xerox Monitor In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 12 Feb 2004, Merle K. Peirce wrote: > The 860 is a CP/M machine. Big sucker. Are you sure about this? That would be news to me. You aren't thinking of the 820, are you? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From curt at atarimuseum.com Thu Feb 12 10:33:13 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:23 2005 Subject: Help ID this bizarro Sound Blaster In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <402BAAC9.6060104@atarimuseum.com> You didn't know? Sellam uses vintage.google.org ;-) Curt Vintage Computer Festival wrote: >On Thu, 12 Feb 2004, J.C. Wren wrote: > > > >>A google for CT1331 reveals "CT1331 External CD-ROM Pass-Through Card" >>from < http://www.atariarchives.org/cfn/12/05/03/0546.php > >> >> > >You must be using a different Google than me because I do not see that >link coming up. > > > -- Curt Vendel & Karl Morris ----------------------------------------------------------------------- The Atari Museum http://www.atarimuseum.com The Atari Explorer http://www.atari-explorer.com From vcf at siconic.com Thu Feb 12 10:33:14 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:23 2005 Subject: Need drivers for Bernoulli PC2/PC2B interface In-Reply-To: <040212094623.2b96f@splab.cas.neu.edu> Message-ID: On Thu, 12 Feb 2004 TRASH3@splab.cas.neu.edu wrote: > I have a few Bernoulli 150 drives set up on machines currently. > They can read from 60 to 150Mb disks. I have both the SCSI and the IDE > versions. I could not tell exactly what Bernoulli box you were trying > to hook up. I have the OADDOS software that came with the Bernoulli > drives, or if you have disks that fit my drives, I can read them. I'm using the old 8" system, the original Bernoulli Box (big sucker, looks like a large IBM PC, weighs a ton). -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From teoz at neo.rr.com Thu Feb 12 10:38:21 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:23 2005 Subject: Help ID this bizarro Sound Blaster References: Message-ID: <006301c3f186$a05f7cf0$d7281941@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vintage Computer Festival" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2004 11:28 AM Subject: Re: Help ID this bizarro Sound Blaster > On Thu, 12 Feb 2004, J.C. Wren wrote: > > > A google for CT1331 reveals "CT1331 External CD-ROM Pass-Through Card" > > from < http://www.atariarchives.org/cfn/12/05/03/0546.php > > > You must be using a different Google than me because I do not see that > link coming up. > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage mputers ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > > http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=ct1331 is the search I used (just entered ct1331 under the WEB page) and the article was 3rd from the bottom of the first page (1-13 of 18 hits). I remember you had google problems before didn't you Sellam? From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Thu Feb 12 10:47:20 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:23 2005 Subject: DEC question: DVD drives and/or CDROM changers In-Reply-To: <002e01c3f183$daad5bf0$5b01a8c0@athlon> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Antonio Carlini > Sent: 12 February 2004 16:18 > To: 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts' > Subject: RE: DEC question: DVD drives and/or CDROM changers > > I've never tried a non-DEC CDROM (never had to) but I do have > a Yamaha CDRW which no longer writes, so I may try it out > sometime. If it can be persuaded to do 512-byte blocks it > will work, if it can't, it probably won't. The other rule of > thumb is that if it works on Sun it probably works on a VAX > (and vice-versa). When I first read this I thought you were quoting me from the other day, but I think that was in a private mail :) I tried such a thing with a Yamaha CDRW 4416S that no longer writes yesterday and it hung the bus - wouldn't even self test :-/ Then I remembered I had an RRD43 kicking around so at least the install was twice as quick.... Cheers -- Adrian/Witchy Owner & Webmaster, Binary Dinosaurs www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Thu Feb 12 10:48:29 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:23 2005 Subject: Hobbyist VMS (was: Got a DEC 2000 Alpha server, need help) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Fred N. van Kempen > Sent: 12 February 2004 15:52 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: RE: Hobbyist VMS (was: Got a DEC 2000 Alpha server, > need help) > > On Thu, 12 Feb 2004, Witchy wrote: > > > So it's not 7-10 business days then eh? *huff* > Not in my case. Which is strange, considering all my info is > U.S.-based ... I'll wait and see then. Antonio, how long did it take for yours to come back? > > I was pleased to read on the hobbyist FAQ that you just > need to keep > > reregistering yer paks when they expire after 12 months....... > Yes, they do. Meaning you also have to renew membership :) A small price to pay for a fully functioning oVMS webserver! Cheers w From jcwren at jcwren.com Thu Feb 12 10:48:19 2004 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:23 2005 Subject: Help ID this bizarro Sound Blaster In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <402BAE53.8030508@jcwren.com> Vintage Computer Festival wrote: >On Thu, 12 Feb 2004, J.C. Wren wrote: > > > >>A google for CT1331 reveals "CT1331 External CD-ROM Pass-Through Card" >>from < http://www.atariarchives.org/cfn/12/05/03/0546.php > >> >> > >You must be using a different Google than me because I do not see that >link coming up. > > > < http://www.google.com/search?q=ct1331&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=utf-8&start=10&sa=N > 7th link down in the Atari page. My search term was "ct1331" (without quotes, although it makes no difference). As you're aware, Google doesn't handle punctuation well, so I usually try several variants if it's got a space or hyphen, such as "ct-1331" or "ct 1331", WITH quotes. You know what would be *really* cool (and expensive, and useless...) is to interface a punch card read/writer so you can punch a google request card, run it, and have it punch the URLS back out on cards, or print on paper. Sort of a mixture of far ends of the tech spectrum. It'd make a great 2 minute sound bite on TechTV. --jc From rdd at rddavis.org Thu Feb 12 11:26:09 2004 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:23 2005 Subject: Hobbyist VMS (was: Got a DEC 2000 Alpha server, need help) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040212172108.GW21247@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Witchy, from writings of Thu, Feb 12, 2004 at 03:49:20PM -0000: > I was pleased to read on the hobbyist FAQ that you just need to keep > reregistering yer paks when they expire after 12 months....... Why? Does VMS stop working? If so, surely there's a way to hack around that problem. Seems to me that, somewhere around here, I have some documentation pertaining solving that type of problem... :-) -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From rdd at rddavis.org Thu Feb 12 11:32:58 2004 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:23 2005 Subject: Hobbyist VMS (was: Got a DEC 2000 Alpha server, need help) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040212172758.GX21247@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Witchy, from writings of Thu, Feb 12, 2004 at 04:48:29PM -0000: > > On Thu, 12 Feb 2004, Witchy wrote: > > > > > So it's not 7-10 business days then eh? *huff* > > Not in my case. Which is strange, considering all my info is > > U.S.-based ... > > I'll wait and see then. > > Antonio, how long did it take for yours to come back? > > > > I was pleased to read on the hobbyist FAQ that you just > > need to keep > > > reregistering yer paks when they expire after 12 months....... > > Yes, they do. Meaning you also have to renew membership :) > > A small price to pay for a fully functioning oVMS webserver! Actually, if it renders the system useless if you don't do that, it's one hell of a big price to pay if you've spent many hours configuring the system and have come to depend upon using it, and HP decides to say "screw that" to VMS or to the hobbyist licensing. ...and if you don't have to do it in order to keep using the system, what's the point in bothering? -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From dittman at dittman.net Thu Feb 12 11:26:13 2004 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:23 2005 Subject: Hobbyist VMS (was: Got a DEC 2000 Alpha server, need help) In-Reply-To: <20040212172108.GW21247@rhiannon.rddavis.org> from "R. D. Davis" at Feb 12, 2004 12:21:08 PM Message-ID: <20040212172613.9BC057F82@narnia.int.dittman.net> > > I was pleased to read on the hobbyist FAQ that you just need to keep > > reregistering yer paks when they expire after 12 months....... > > Why? Does VMS stop working? If so, surely there's a way to hack > around that problem. Seems to me that, somewhere around here, I have > some documentation pertaining solving that type of problem... :-) There is a way to hack around that problem: Reregister. Reregistering allows tracking of how many hobbyist systems are in use. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From lists at microvax.org Thu Feb 12 11:28:57 2004 From: lists at microvax.org (meltie) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:23 2005 Subject: Hobbyist VMS (was: Got a DEC 2000 Alpha server, need help) In-Reply-To: <20040212172108.GW21247@rhiannon.rddavis.org> References: <20040212172108.GW21247@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <200402121728.57126.lists@microvax.org> On Thursday 12 February 2004 17:21, R. D. Davis wrote: > Quothe Witchy, from writings of Thu, Feb 12, 2004 at 03:49:20PM -0000: > > I was pleased to read on the hobbyist FAQ that you just need to keep > > reregistering yer paks when they expire after 12 months....... > > Why? Does VMS stop working? If so, surely there's a way to hack > around that problem. Seems to me that, somewhere around here, I have > some documentation pertaining solving that type of problem... :-) LMF, and indeed the checksum that produces the licence codes we enter can be easily cracked. There are a few people that've done it before. The real issue is whether we really should all start using these cracked licences. If we did, I feel that HPAQ would give up on the VMS hobbiest program altogether and stem the free flow of upgrades and install disks. Therefore, I registered with a DEC User Group that would take me and I get my DEC licences every year. To show that there are people still out here that support, use and appreciate the hobbiest program. alex/melt From curt at atarimuseum.com Thu Feb 12 11:32:26 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:23 2005 Subject: Need drivers for Bernoulli PC2/PC2B interface In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <402BB8AA.4000506@atarimuseum.com> Those were great!!! I used to service those beasties in 90' The great "feature" of the 8" drives in the XT cases were the power supplies... the earlier power supplies had a capacitor overload issue and you'd be working in a lab area and hear this loud ka-bang!!! like a hammer hitting the case with all its might and what would happen is the large coke-can sized capacitors used to explode! :-) Curt Vintage Computer Festival wrote: >On Thu, 12 Feb 2004 TRASH3@splab.cas.neu.edu wrote: > > > >> I have a few Bernoulli 150 drives set up on machines currently. >>They can read from 60 to 150Mb disks. I have both the SCSI and the IDE >>versions. I could not tell exactly what Bernoulli box you were trying >>to hook up. I have the OADDOS software that came with the Bernoulli >>drives, or if you have disks that fit my drives, I can read them. >> >> > >I'm using the old 8" system, the original Bernoulli Box (big sucker, looks >like a large IBM PC, weighs a ton). > > > -- Curt Vendel & Karl Morris ----------------------------------------------------------------------- The Atari Museum http://www.atarimuseum.com The Atari Explorer http://www.atari-explorer.com From jpl15 at panix.com Thu Feb 12 11:59:12 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:23 2005 Subject: Z8 TinyBasic and Intel SBC on eBay Message-ID: Z8 homebrew: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=4193&item=2786076863 min bid $100 Intel SBC 80/10 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=4193&item=2786604189 also starts at $100 Cheerz John From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Thu Feb 12 12:15:46 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:23 2005 Subject: Hobbyist VMS (was: Got a DEC 2000 Alpha server, need help) In-Reply-To: <20040212172758.GX21247@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of R. D. Davis > Sent: 12 February 2004 17:28 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: Hobbyist VMS (was: Got a DEC 2000 Alpha server, > need help) > > Actually, if it renders the system useless if you don't do > that, it's one hell of a big price to pay if you've spent > many hours configuring the system and have come to depend > upon using it, and HP decides to say "screw that" to VMS or > to the hobbyist licensing. ...and if you don't have to do it > in order to keep using the system, what's the point in bothering? When the licenses expire nothing will actually happen until you reboot the machine, at which point LMF will refuse to load them. VMS itself will still come up but you'll only be allowed to log in at the console. 'Course, VMS has its reputation for reliability so it normal circumstances a reboot might not happen for the next year, but I have a habit of tripping the power in this house :) If hp *does* say 'screw that' I'll just build a linux or *BSD box. It's not like I haven't got the hardware to do it :) Cheers -- Adrian/Witchy Owner & Webmaster, Binary Dinosaurs www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From marvin at rain.org Thu Feb 12 12:21:12 2004 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:23 2005 Subject: Z8 TinyBasic and Intel SBC on eBay References: Message-ID: <402BC418.58232A0D@rain.org> Those Intel boards have been selling in the $35.00 or so range. As such, it is overpriced unless it comes with all the docs. John Lawson wrote: > > Intel SBC 80/10 > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=4193&item=2786604189 From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Feb 12 12:34:52 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:23 2005 Subject: Hobbyist VMS (was: Got a DEC 2000 Alpha server, need help) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >When the licenses expire nothing will actually happen until you reboot the >machine, at which point LMF will refuse to load them. VMS itself will still >come up but you'll only be allowed to log in at the console. 'Course, VMS That might work for the OS (don't remember), I do remember though that certain of the layered products stop working). Rather annoying. I wish they'd just charge us $100 and give us real PAKs like they do for the Tru64 Hobbyists. Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Feb 12 12:36:59 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:23 2005 Subject: Hobbyist VMS (was: Got a DEC 2000 Alpha server, need help) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >But if you only want hobbyist VMS you go here: > >https://secure2.sba.com/encompass/memberApp/associate.cfm > >Which is free, gratis and for nothing. What on earth do you put in for the "Associate ID"? I really should sign up, I've been using my expired DECUS ID to get licenses. Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From vcf at siconic.com Thu Feb 12 12:44:35 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:23 2005 Subject: Help ID this bizarro Sound Blaster In-Reply-To: <006301c3f186$a05f7cf0$d7281941@game> Message-ID: On Thu, 12 Feb 2004, Teo Zenios wrote: > http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=ct1331 is the search > I used (just entered ct1331 under the WEB page) and the article was 3rd from > the bottom of the first page (1-13 of 18 hits). I see it as the 7th hit on page 2, with 10 hits per page. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Thu Feb 12 12:46:16 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:23 2005 Subject: Help ID this bizarro Sound Blaster In-Reply-To: <402BAE53.8030508@jcwren.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 12 Feb 2004, J.C. Wren wrote: > You know what would be *really* cool (and expensive, and useless...) is > to interface a punch card read/writer so you can punch a google request > card, run it, and have it punch the URLS back out on cards, or print on > paper. Sort of a mixture of far ends of the tech spectrum. It'd make a > great 2 minute sound bite on TechTV. Oh, what fun! I'll put that down as Project #327 in the list of Whimsical Things to do with Old Computers. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Thu Feb 12 12:47:08 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:23 2005 Subject: Need drivers for Bernoulli PC2/PC2B interface In-Reply-To: <402BB8AA.4000506@atarimuseum.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 12 Feb 2004, Curt Vendel wrote: > Those were great!!! I used to service those beasties in 90' The > great "feature" of the 8" drives in the XT cases were the power > supplies... the earlier power supplies had a capacitor overload issue > and you'd be working in a lab area and hear this loud ka-bang!!! like a > hammer hitting the case with all its might and what would happen is the > large coke-can sized capacitors used to explode! :-) OH FUN! I hope that doesn't happen as I'm trying to read these carthridges I've got. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From curt at atarimuseum.com Thu Feb 12 12:56:51 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:23 2005 Subject: Need drivers for Bernoulli PC2/PC2B interface In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <402BCC73.2020505@atarimuseum.com> As long the cover is on, you'll be okay... hopefully ;-) Curt Vintage Computer Festival wrote: >On Thu, 12 Feb 2004, Curt Vendel wrote: > > > >>Those were great!!! I used to service those beasties in 90' The >>great "feature" of the 8" drives in the XT cases were the power >>supplies... the earlier power supplies had a capacitor overload issue >>and you'd be working in a lab area and hear this loud ka-bang!!! like a >>hammer hitting the case with all its might and what would happen is the >>large coke-can sized capacitors used to explode! :-) >> >> > >OH FUN! I hope that doesn't happen as I'm trying to read these >carthridges I've got. > > > -- Curt Vendel & Karl Morris ----------------------------------------------------------------------- The Atari Museum http://www.atarimuseum.com The Atari Explorer http://www.atari-explorer.com From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Feb 12 13:12:25 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:23 2005 Subject: punch card web access? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040212110156.K17186@newshell.lmi.net> > > You know what would be *really* cool (and expensive, and useless...) is > > to interface a punch card read/writer so you can punch a google request > > card, run it, and have it punch the URLS back out on cards, or print on > > paper. Sort of a mixture of far ends of the tech spectrum. It'd make a > > great 2 minute sound bite on TechTV. > Oh, what fun! > I'll put that down as Project #327 in the list of Whimsical Things to do > with Old Computers. About 10 years ago, Cliff Stoll ("Cuckoo's Egg", "Silicon Snake Oil") visited my office, and told me about a project that he wanted to do of making an EAM (electro-mechanical) web server, using "cardboard technology" (punched cards and paper tape). I gave him a badly damaged core module, a few boxes of cards and a manual punch. I don't think that he ever got around to completing his project, but he was just crazy enough to try. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From jwest at classiccmp.org Thu Feb 12 13:16:28 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:23 2005 Subject: punch card web access? References: <20040212110156.K17186@newshell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <006f01c3f19c$b73e2000$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Is there some standard that would allow us to get the URL's back on cards with UTF/Unicode? Gotta allow for different (two byte) languages. Jay ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Cisin" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2004 1:12 PM Subject: punch card web access? > > > You know what would be *really* cool (and expensive, and useless...) is > > > to interface a punch card read/writer so you can punch a google request > > > card, run it, and have it punch the URLS back out on cards, or print on > > > paper. Sort of a mixture of far ends of the tech spectrum. It'd make a > > > great 2 minute sound bite on TechTV. > > Oh, what fun! > > I'll put that down as Project #327 in the list of Whimsical Things to do > > with Old Computers. > > About 10 years ago, Cliff Stoll ("Cuckoo's Egg", "Silicon Snake Oil") > visited my office, and told me about a project that he wanted to do of > making an EAM (electro-mechanical) web server, using "cardboard > technology" (punched cards and paper tape). > > I gave him a badly damaged core module, a few boxes of cards > and a manual punch. > > I don't think that he ever got around to completing his project, > but he was just crazy enough to try. > > -- > Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com > --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From curt at atarimuseum.com Thu Feb 12 13:19:31 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:23 2005 Subject: punch card web access? In-Reply-To: <20040212110156.K17186@newshell.lmi.net> References: <20040212110156.K17186@newshell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <402BD1C3.9040603@atarimuseum.com> Whats Cliff doing these days??? Anybody have Cucko's Egg on tape or DVD that they could mail me, I have the book and its a great read, I've read it about 3-4 times over the years, but I never got to tape the aired version. Curt Fred Cisin wrote: >>>You know what would be *really* cool (and expensive, and useless...) is >>>to interface a punch card read/writer so you can punch a google request >>>card, run it, and have it punch the URLS back out on cards, or print on >>>paper. Sort of a mixture of far ends of the tech spectrum. It'd make a >>>great 2 minute sound bite on TechTV. >>> >>> >>Oh, what fun! >>I'll put that down as Project #327 in the list of Whimsical Things to do >>with Old Computers. >> >> > >About 10 years ago, Cliff Stoll ("Cuckoo's Egg", "Silicon Snake Oil") >visited my office, and told me about a project that he wanted to do of >making an EAM (electro-mechanical) web server, using "cardboard >technology" (punched cards and paper tape). > >I gave him a badly damaged core module, a few boxes of cards >and a manual punch. > >I don't think that he ever got around to completing his project, >but he was just crazy enough to try. > >-- >Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com > > > -- Curt Vendel & Karl Morris ----------------------------------------------------------------------- The Atari Museum http://www.atarimuseum.com The Atari Explorer http://www.atari-explorer.com From pkoning at equallogic.com Thu Feb 12 13:27:03 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:23 2005 Subject: punch card web access? References: <20040212110156.K17186@newshell.lmi.net> <402BD1C3.9040603@atarimuseum.com> Message-ID: <16427.54151.280486.90311@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Curt" == Curt Vendel writes: Curt> Whats Cliff doing these days??? http://www.kleinbottle.com/ paul From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Thu Feb 12 13:36:27 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:23 2005 Subject: Hobbyist VMS (was: Got a DEC 2000 Alpha server, need help) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Zane H. Healy > Sent: 12 February 2004 18:37 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: RE: Hobbyist VMS (was: Got a DEC 2000 Alpha server, > need help) > > >But if you only want hobbyist VMS you go here: > > > >https://secure2.sba.com/encompass/memberApp/associate.cfm > > > >Which is free, gratis and for nothing. > > What on earth do you put in for the "Associate ID"? I really > should sign up, I've been using my expired DECUS ID to get licenses. Anything you like, the field just needs something in it. If I'd been thinking ahead I could've used my expired DECUS ID .....don't they check for that sort of thing? Like, oo here's a DECUS ID let's make sure they're still a member? Cheers w From vcf at siconic.com Thu Feb 12 13:51:09 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:24 2005 Subject: punch card web access? In-Reply-To: <006f01c3f19c$b73e2000$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 12 Feb 2004, Jay West wrote: > Is there some standard that would allow us to get the URL's back on cards > with UTF/Unicode? Gotta allow for different (two byte) languages. Well, you can effectively pack 12 bits per column. Maybe a modified Unicode? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Thu Feb 12 13:53:53 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:24 2005 Subject: punch card web access? In-Reply-To: <402BD1C3.9040603@atarimuseum.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 12 Feb 2004, Curt Vendel wrote: > Whats Cliff doing these days??? I guess he's just being a neo-luddite pundit writing books about how the Internet is evil and being a physicist. I ran into him at the Computer History Museum a couple years back. He's actually much more normal in person than you'd think from seeing him on TV. He's also a very well guy. > Anybody have Cucko's Egg on tape or DVD that they could mail me, I have > the book and its a great read, I've read it about 3-4 times over the > years, but I never got to tape the aired version. I've got a recording from PBS from a few years back. I could cut you a copy. E-mail me in private if you don't get any other hits (you know how sapped for time I am). -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From nico at farumdata.dk Thu Feb 12 15:47:21 2004 From: nico at farumdata.dk (Nico de Jong) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:24 2005 Subject: PDP11/34 Message-ID: <006101c3f1b1$cb959870$2201a8c0@finans> Hi I visited a customer in Sweden today. In the corner was a packed-up PDP 11/34. I dont know beans about PDP, but that is what they told me. There seemed to be a CPU, a disk drive and a few disc packs Would that be interesting for anyone ? If so, I can ask the customer if we can have it Nico ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Allain" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2004 3:05 AM Subject: Re: Yay - new DEC arrival (not *strictly* on topic. Or is it?) > > That is exactly why I *still* run critical or security-sensitive > > stuff on such platforms. It leaves those kiddies with a severe > > headache. :) > > At last! A motivation behind all this. I was beginning to wonder. > > I saw a digital animation festival last night and was thinking of > getting a new compute server. By my calculations a midsized > PC passed even the CRAY-1 in compute speed sometime in 2002, > give or take a year. It probably would require a stripped down O/S > to do the computing. MS must take out at least 3/4 of the machine > power. > > John A. > > > From dittman at dittman.net Thu Feb 12 15:46:52 2004 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:24 2005 Subject: Hobbyist VMS (was: Got a DEC 2000 Alpha server, need help) In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at Feb 12, 2004 10:34:52 AM Message-ID: <20040212214652.EECEE7F82@narnia.int.dittman.net> > >When the licenses expire nothing will actually happen until you reboot the > >machine, at which point LMF will refuse to load them. VMS itself will still > >come up but you'll only be allowed to log in at the console. 'Course, VMS > > That might work for the OS (don't remember), I do remember though that certain > of the layered products stop working). Rather annoying. I wish they'd just > charge us $100 and give us real PAKs like they do for the Tru64 Hobbyists. The only reason they charge $100 for the Tru64 package is due to royalties they have to pay. BTW, Zane, your posts come out as one long line rather than having lines shorter than 80 characters. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From dittman at dittman.net Thu Feb 12 15:48:42 2004 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:24 2005 Subject: Hobbyist VMS (was: Got a DEC 2000 Alpha server, need help) In-Reply-To: from "Witchy" at Feb 12, 2004 06:15:46 PM Message-ID: <20040212214842.D0A0E7F82@narnia.int.dittman.net> > When the licenses expire nothing will actually happen until you reboot the > machine, at which point LMF will refuse to load them. VMS itself will still > come up but you'll only be allowed to log in at the console. 'Course, VMS > has its reputation for reliability so it normal circumstances a reboot might > not happen for the next year, but I have a habit of tripping the power in > this house :) > > If hp *does* say 'screw that' I'll just build a linux or *BSD box. It's not > like I haven't got the hardware to do it :) I believe things are in place to continue the program even if HP does drop out. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From curt at atarimuseum.com Thu Feb 12 15:52:05 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:24 2005 Subject: PDP11/34 In-Reply-To: <006101c3f1b1$cb959870$2201a8c0@finans> References: <006101c3f1b1$cb959870$2201a8c0@finans> Message-ID: <402BF585.1040909@atarimuseum.com> Nico, its a total piece of junk, a waste of time.... so lemme send you my address and you can ship that paperweight right to me :-) Seriously though, I'd love to get it, shipping will be murder to the US though. Curt Nico de Jong wrote: >Hi > >I visited a customer in Sweden today. In the corner was a packed-up PDP >11/34. I dont know beans about PDP, but that is what they told me. There >seemed to be a CPU, a disk drive and a few disc packs >Would that be interesting for anyone ? If so, I can ask the customer if we >can have it > >Nico > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "John Allain" >To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > >Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2004 3:05 AM >Subject: Re: Yay - new DEC arrival (not *strictly* on topic. Or is it?) > > > > >>>That is exactly why I *still* run critical or security-sensitive >>>stuff on such platforms. It leaves those kiddies with a severe >>>headache. :) >>> >>> >>At last! A motivation behind all this. I was beginning to wonder. >> >>I saw a digital animation festival last night and was thinking of >>getting a new compute server. By my calculations a midsized >>PC passed even the CRAY-1 in compute speed sometime in 2002, >>give or take a year. It probably would require a stripped down O/S >>to do the computing. MS must take out at least 3/4 of the machine >>power. >> >>John A. >> >> >> >> >> > > > > -- Curt Vendel & Karl Morris ----------------------------------------------------------------------- The Atari Museum http://www.atarimuseum.com The Atari Explorer http://www.atari-explorer.com From waltje at pdp11.nl Thu Feb 12 15:52:59 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:24 2005 Subject: Hobbyist VMS (was: Got a DEC 2000 Alpha server, need help) In-Reply-To: <20040212214842.D0A0E7F82@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 12 Feb 2004, Eric Dittman wrote: > > If hp *does* say 'screw that' I'll just build a linux or *BSD box. It's not > > like I haven't got the hardware to do it :) > > I believe things are in place to continue the program even if HP does drop > out. Given the fact that HP is the licensor, if *they* pull the plug, or drop out of the loop, Encompass/DECUS/Interex will no longer (automatically) have the delegated licensor rights. --f From dittman at dittman.net Thu Feb 12 16:05:13 2004 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:24 2005 Subject: Hobbyist VMS (was: Got a DEC 2000 Alpha server, need help) In-Reply-To: from "Fred N. van Kempen" at Feb 12, 2004 10:52:59 PM Message-ID: <20040212220513.4BDBF7F82@narnia.int.dittman.net> > > > If hp *does* say 'screw that' I'll just build a linux or *BSD box. It's not > > > like I haven't got the hardware to do it :) > > > > I believe things are in place to continue the program even if HP does drop > > out. > Given the fact that HP is the licensor, if *they* pull the plug, > or drop out of the loop, Encompass/DECUS/Interex will no longer > (automatically) have the delegated licensor rights. I'm not talking about Encompass (Interex has nothing to do with the program). I have no problem with the way the OpenVMS Hobbyist program is set up, and I know that if the plug is pulled I'm not going to be hung out to dry. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From waltje at pdp11.nl Thu Feb 12 16:22:37 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:24 2005 Subject: Hobbyist VMS (was: Got a DEC 2000 Alpha server, need help) In-Reply-To: <20040212220513.4BDBF7F82@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 12 Feb 2004, Eric Dittman wrote: > I'm not talking about Encompass (Interex has nothing to do with the > program). Actually, you're wrong, they do. In Europe, HP Interex handles this program. > I have no problem with the way the OpenVMS Hobbyist program is set up, > and I know that if the plug is pulled I'm not going to be hung out to > dry. We'll see. --f From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Feb 12 16:38:41 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:24 2005 Subject: Hobbyist VMS (was: Got a DEC 2000 Alpha server, need help) In-Reply-To: <20040212214652.EECEE7F82@narnia.int.dittman.net> from "Eric Dittman" at Feb 12, 2004 03:46:52 PM Message-ID: <200402122238.i1CMcfx6029606@onyx.spiritone.com> > BTW, Zane, your posts come out as one long line rather than having lines shorter > than 80 characters. Bleep! You mean I'm one of those annoying B******'s that I hate? I'll have to see if I can find the setting to change in the new version of Eudora. Anyone use Eudora and have any ideas? Zane PS this is written using 'joe' and sent using 'elm' so there shouldn't be a problem. From dittman at dittman.net Thu Feb 12 16:45:08 2004 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:24 2005 Subject: Hobbyist VMS (was: Got a DEC 2000 Alpha server, need help) In-Reply-To: from "Fred N. van Kempen" at Feb 12, 2004 11:22:37 PM Message-ID: <20040212224508.647A57F82@narnia.int.dittman.net> > > I'm not talking about Encompass (Interex has nothing to do with the > > program). > Actually, you're wrong, they do. In Europe, HP Interex handles > this program. Nope, Interex can take no credit for any part of the OpenVMS Hobbyist program. Interex membership isn't even listed as qualifying here: http://www.openvmshobbyist.com/get_yer_licenses/join_user_group.html There's more information on the history of the program here: http://www.openvmshobbyist.com/openvms_history/hobbyist_history/index.html As you can see, DECUS (which became Encompass) and the DFWLUG (which became the DFWCUG) started the program and still maintain it. > > I have no problem with the way the OpenVMS Hobbyist program is set up, > > and I know that if the plug is pulled I'm not going to be hung out to > > dry. > We'll see. Indeed, we shall. I've talked to the people behind the scenes and am pretty sure I know what I'm talking about. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From dittman at dittman.net Thu Feb 12 16:46:52 2004 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:24 2005 Subject: Hobbyist VMS (was: Got a DEC 2000 Alpha server, need help) In-Reply-To: <200402122238.i1CMcfx6029606@onyx.spiritone.com> from "Zane H. Healy" at Feb 12, 2004 02:38:41 PM Message-ID: <20040212224652.941C57F82@narnia.int.dittman.net> > > BTW, Zane, your posts come out as one long line rather than having lines shorter > > than 80 characters. > > Bleep! You mean I'm one of those annoying B******'s that I hate? I'll have > to see if I can find the setting to change in the new version of Eudora. > Anyone use Eudora and have any ideas? > > Zane > > PS this is written using 'joe' and sent using 'elm' so there shouldn't be a > problem. Yes, that message is coming out correctly. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Thu Feb 12 16:57:04 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:24 2005 Subject: Hobbyist VMS (was: Got a DEC 2000 Alpha server, need help) In-Reply-To: <20040212224508.647A57F82@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Eric Dittman > Sent: 12 February 2004 22:45 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Hobbyist VMS (was: Got a DEC 2000 Alpha server, > need help) > > Nope, Interex can take no credit for any part of the OpenVMS > Hobbyist program. > Interex membership isn't even listed as qualifying here: > > http://www.openvmshobbyist.com/get_yer_licenses/join_user_group.html It might not be listed, but if you click on DECUS-UK guess where you get taken :) Cheers w From arcarlini at iee.org Thu Feb 12 17:00:30 2004 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:24 2005 Subject: Hobbyist VMS (was: Got a DEC 2000 Alpha server, need help) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <004c01c3f1bc$0c99d660$5b01a8c0@athlon> > I'll wait and see then. > > Antonio, how long did it take for yours to come back? I don't have an exact figure, but something like a week sounds about right. Anything longer and I would have lost patience anyway :-) Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Thu Feb 12 17:30:21 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:24 2005 Subject: Hobbyist VMS (was: Got a DEC 2000 Alpha server, need help) In-Reply-To: <004c01c3f1bc$0c99d660$5b01a8c0@athlon> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Antonio Carlini > Sent: 12 February 2004 23:01 > To: 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts' > Subject: RE: Hobbyist VMS (was: Got a DEC 2000 Alpha server, > need help) > > > I'll wait and see then. > > > > Antonio, how long did it take for yours to come back? > > I don't have an exact figure, but something like a week > sounds about right. Anything longer and I would have lost > patience anyway :-) Fingers crossed then! Though I might've got away with using my DECUS ID anyway.... Cheers w From dittman at dittman.net Thu Feb 12 17:37:28 2004 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:24 2005 Subject: Hobbyist VMS (was: Got a DEC 2000 Alpha server, need help) In-Reply-To: from "Witchy" at Feb 12, 2004 10:57:04 PM Message-ID: <20040212233728.E53D5801E@narnia.int.dittman.net> > > Nope, Interex can take no credit for any part of the OpenVMS > > Hobbyist program. > > Interex membership isn't even listed as qualifying here: > > > > http://www.openvmshobbyist.com/get_yer_licenses/join_user_group.html > > It might not be listed, but if you click on DECUS-UK guess where you get > taken :) I guess that needs to be updated. It still doesn't mean Interex can take any credit for any part of the program. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From waltje at pdp11.nl Thu Feb 12 17:40:12 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:24 2005 Subject: Hobbyist VMS (was: Got a DEC 2000 Alpha server, need help) In-Reply-To: <20040212233728.E53D5801E@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 12 Feb 2004, Eric Dittman wrote: > I guess that needs to be updated. It still doesn't mean Interex can take > any credit for any part of the program. True, they just are the successor to most non-US DECUS groups. --f From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Thu Feb 12 17:56:52 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:24 2005 Subject: Straight 8 -- front panel repair References: Message-ID: <402C12C4.3000100@jetnet.ab.ca> Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > Nisler's PDP-8 is scrap. It can be restored, but I think it makes no > sense whatsoever to take apart Pete's PDP-8 to supply parts for Nisler's > machine. It should be the other way around if anything. I beg to differ. Both people need a front pannel to say the least. Both people have talents skills and hardware that need to shared. While Nisler's PDP-8 is only a pile of parts right now, Kermit may still live if he can compare it to a working 8. Pete lacks the hardware know how to get his 8 working. Fixing Kirmit and Pete's 8 togther gives both people a chance to learn more. I posted this message to cctalk in the hopes of people with straight 8's and other 8's to share knowlage and information. Ben. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Feb 12 18:43:20 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:24 2005 Subject: Z8 TinyBasic and Intel SBC on eBay In-Reply-To: <402BC418.58232A0D@rain.org> References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040212194320.0083a2e0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> It's over-priced even with the docs. And FWIW I tried to contact the seller and ask some questions but his E-mail bounced. Not a good sign. Joe At 10:21 AM 2/12/04 -0800, you wrote: > >Those Intel boards have been selling in the $35.00 or so range. As such, >it is overpriced unless it comes with all the docs. > >John Lawson wrote: >> >> Intel SBC 80/10 >> >> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=4193&item=2786604189 > From vcf at siconic.com Thu Feb 12 18:58:37 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:24 2005 Subject: Straight 8 -- front panel repair In-Reply-To: <402C12C4.3000100@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, 12 Feb 2004, ben franchuk wrote: > > Nisler's PDP-8 is scrap. It can be restored, but I think it makes no > > sense whatsoever to take apart Pete's PDP-8 to supply parts for Nisler's > > machine. It should be the other way around if anything. > > I beg to differ. Both people need a front pannel to say the least. > Both people have talents skills and hardware that need to shared. > While Nisler's PDP-8 is only a pile of parts right now, Kermit > may still live if he can compare it to a working 8. Pete lacks the > hardware know how to get his 8 working. Fixing Kirmit and Pete's > 8 togther gives both people a chance to learn more. > I posted this message to cctalk in the hopes of people with > straight 8's and other 8's to share knowlage and information. Ben, PA-lease! Have we both seen the same photos of Nisler's PDP-8? His machine got CREAMED. As I stated before, it can be restored, but I would NOT take parts from another machine (as you seemingly suggested in your last message), such as Pete's, which, from the description, sounded like it was 1,000,000 times more readily restorable than Nisler's. It just had paint peeling off the front panel glass. Nisler's is a pile of scrap sitting amidst the rubble of a condemned house. "Kermit" is not a person, it's a computer. A smashed computer. And no matter how you want might want to personify it (calling it Kermit is cute but doesn't help) it still doesn't change the fact that it has one foot in the scrap bin. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From dwight.elvey at amd.com Thu Feb 12 19:05:23 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:24 2005 Subject: Z8 TinyBasic and Intel SBC on eBay Message-ID: <200402130105.RAA11932@clulw009.amd.com> Hi He only has one feedback and that was as a buyer. Bad email + no feed back + overpriced item. You add them up. Dwight >From: "Joe R." > > It's over-priced even with the docs. And FWIW I tried to contact the >seller and ask some questions but his E-mail bounced. Not a good sign. > > Joe > >At 10:21 AM 2/12/04 -0800, you wrote: >> >>Those Intel boards have been selling in the $35.00 or so range. As such, >>it is overpriced unless it comes with all the docs. >> >>John Lawson wrote: >>> >>> Intel SBC 80/10 >>> >>> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=4193&item=2786604189 >> > From pat at computer-refuge.org Thu Feb 12 19:19:38 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:24 2005 Subject: New VAX-11 documentation online! Message-ID: <200402122019.38956.pat@computer-refuge.org> I'm proud to present two new pieces that have been added to my web site today: First, after getting my VAX-11/750 just two days ago, I've now got a decent sized summary page from information I've found via various internet sites, and have a large collection of picture I've take of various parts of mine. Now I just have to con^Wget someone to give me a UNIBUS disk adaptor or reasonably small Massbus disk and maybe a DEUNA/DELUA, so I can try to get NetBSD and/or 4.xBSD up and running on it. For once, I've got a VAX that I don't really care to try to put VMS on. :) Second, after talking to one of the authors (whom I work for ;), I got permission to put the Mike Marsh and George Goble Dual-Processor VAX (11/780) paper online. Both are reachable from the front page of my web site: http://computer-refuge.org/ Or via these links: http://computer-refuge.org/compcollect/dec/vax/11750 http://computer-refuge.org/classiccmp/dp_vax/dual-vax11-780.pdf Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ From curt at atarimuseum.com Thu Feb 12 20:25:39 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:24 2005 Subject: New VAX-11 documentation online! In-Reply-To: <200402122019.38956.pat@computer-refuge.org> References: <200402122019.38956.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: <402C35A3.406@atarimuseum.com> Patrick if you ever get bored with that gorgeous beast, just let me know, and if anyone else has an 11/750 that they want to part with, I'm looking and I've got a nice PDP-11/84 4U 19" rack mount system I'm looking to sell or use as trading fodder... just needs a UBA board (8191) and I've got an RK05 as well.... Curt Patrick Finnegan wrote: >I'm proud to present two new pieces that have been added to my web site >today: > >First, after getting my VAX-11/750 just two days ago, I've now got a >decent sized summary page from information I've found via various >internet sites, and have a large collection of picture I've take of >various parts of mine. Now I just have to con^Wget someone to give me >a UNIBUS disk adaptor or reasonably small Massbus disk and maybe a >DEUNA/DELUA, so I can try to get NetBSD and/or 4.xBSD up and running on >it. For once, I've got a VAX that I don't really care to try to put >VMS on. :) > >Second, after talking to one of the authors (whom I work for ;), I got >permission to put the Mike Marsh and George Goble Dual-Processor VAX >(11/780) paper online. > >Both are reachable from the front page of my web site: > >http://computer-refuge.org/ > >Or via these links: >http://computer-refuge.org/compcollect/dec/vax/11750 >http://computer-refuge.org/classiccmp/dp_vax/dual-vax11-780.pdf > >Pat > > -- Curt Vendel & Karl Morris ----------------------------------------------------------------------- The Atari Museum http://www.atarimuseum.com The Atari Explorer http://www.atari-explorer.com From vcf at siconic.com Thu Feb 12 21:31:46 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:24 2005 Subject: Odd question about microwaves and magnetic media Message-ID: Can magnetic media setting in proximity to a microwave be affected by the microwaves or anything else in the oven (the magnetron for instance)? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From curt at atarimuseum.com Thu Feb 12 21:40:18 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:24 2005 Subject: Odd question about microwaves and magnetic media In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <402C4722.9020904@atarimuseum.com> As a general rule I try to keep my major appliances and computer hardware in seperate rooms ;-) Curt Vintage Computer Festival wrote: >Can magnetic media setting in proximity to a microwave be affected by the >microwaves or anything else in the oven (the magnetron for instance)? > > > -- Curt Vendel & Karl Morris ----------------------------------------------------------------------- The Atari Museum http://www.atarimuseum.com The Atari Explorer http://www.atari-explorer.com From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Thu Feb 12 21:47:03 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:24 2005 Subject: New VAX-11 documentation online! In-Reply-To: <200402122019.38956.pat@computer-refuge.org> References: <200402122019.38956.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: <20040213034703.GA19014@bos7.spole.gov> On Thu, Feb 12, 2004 at 08:19:38PM -0500, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > First, after getting my VAX-11/750 just two days ago... > ... Now I just have to con^Wget someone to give me > a UNIBUS disk adaptor or reasonably small Massbus disk I don't think there ever was a "small Massbus disk", at least not in terms of physical size. We had half a rack with an SI-9900, a Fuji 160MB and a Fuji Eagle on one of our 11/750s (with an SI pseudo-MASSBUS card) and a couple of RM03s on a real MASSBUS. What I've always wanted to do was mount something like an RA72 inside my 11/750 (where the battery backup goes, on the far left), and run that machine _without_ having it take up several racks (our 11/750, with its disks and tapes was six racks wide, half at 42", half at 72" tall. I was able to rescue everything from that one except the two RM03s). -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 13-Feb-2004 03:41 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -45.3 F (-43.0 C) Windchill -62.4 F (-52.5 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 5.8 kts Grid 008 Barometer 688 mb (10325. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From blstuart at bellsouth.net Thu Feb 12 21:57:17 2004 From: blstuart at bellsouth.net (blstuart@bellsouth.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:24 2005 Subject: punch card web access? In-Reply-To: Your message of Thu, 12 Feb 2004 11:53:53 -0800 (PST) . Message-ID: <20040213040412.XHZI6974.imf21aec.mail.bellsouth.net@bellsouth.net> In message , Vintage Compu ter Festival writes: >I guess he's just being a neo-luddite pundit writing books about how the >Internet is evil and being a physicist. I ran into him at the Computer >History Museum a couple years back. He's actually much more normal in >person than you'd think from seeing him on TV. He's also a very well guy. I get the impression he's mellowed over the years. When he did that NOVA, it looked like the cameraman had trouble keeping him in the frame. Some years later, he gave a talk at Purdue where he literally bounced off the wall at one point. He also mentioned the he had been trying to keep as still as he could in the NOVA because the directory kept yelling at him. When he was doing that "op ed column" thing on TechTV a few years ago, he sure looked like he was a lot calmer than earlier. Brian L. Stuart From allain at panix.com Thu Feb 12 22:13:44 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:24 2005 Subject: Odd question about microwaves and magnetic media References: Message-ID: <005501c3f1e7$c60101c0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > Can magnetic media setting in proximity to a microwave be affected... In general I try to keep any magnetic media at least 1 foot from any electrical devices. For a major consumer of watts, it's more like 3+ feet. John A. so, how do I get the floppy into the drive then? From nico at farumdata.dk Thu Feb 12 23:37:07 2004 From: nico at farumdata.dk (Nico de Jong) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:24 2005 Subject: PDP11/34 References: <006101c3f1b1$cb959870$2201a8c0@finans> Message-ID: <002401c3f1f3$6b99bbd0$2201a8c0@finans> To: Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2004 10:47 PM Subject: PDP11/34 > > I visited a customer in Sweden today. In the corner was a packed-up PDP > 11/34. I dont know beans about PDP, but that is what they told me. There > seemed to be a CPU, a disk drive and a few disc packs > Would that be interesting for anyone ? If so, I can ask the customer if we > can have it > Ok, I'll get in touch with the guy, and see if he wants to part with it Nico From unr00ster at worldnet.att.net Fri Feb 13 00:04:11 2004 From: unr00ster at worldnet.att.net (UnR00ster) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:24 2005 Subject: For Chip Collectors References: <005401c3ef21$43c52a60$77406b43@66067007> <001701c3ef39$24dc5660$ade681ac@aoldsl.net> Message-ID: <001b01c3f1f7$36e0e3b0$6400a8c0@widgetbaad900b> E-Bay http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3457796755&category=3674 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ed Sharpe" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Monday, February 09, 2004 11:18 AM Subject: Re: For Chip Collectors > neat group.... > if some kind soul out there has a 4004 and an 8008 > microprocessor thaey would be willing to share, sell or barter let us > know... > > Thanks! > > Ed Sharpe Archivist for SMECC > > See the Southwest Museum of Engineering, Communications and Computation > online at: > http://www.smecc.org > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Keys" > To: "cctalk@classiccmp" > Sent: Monday, February 09, 2004 8:27 AM > Subject: For Chip Collectors > > > > Check this auction, I have NOTHING to do with it or the parson selling. > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2786033645&category=1247 > > > > > > From sastevens at earthlink.net Fri Feb 13 00:03:37 2004 From: sastevens at earthlink.net (Scott Stevens) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:24 2005 Subject: Help ID this bizarro Sound Blaster In-Reply-To: <200402130419.i1D4Ih7J000813@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040213005418.01c2a108@pop.earthlink.net> At 10:19 PM 2/12/2004 -0600, you wrote: > > You know what would be *really* cool (and expensive, and useless...) is > > to interface a punch card read/writer so you can punch a google request > > card, run it, and have it punch the URLS back out on cards, or print on > > paper. When my father was writing software at IBM (he programmed on the 650) he tells me that coding involved: 1. Punching in your program on cards. 2. Loading the compiler/assembler program into the machine off punched cards. 3. Running the compiler/assembler. 4. The compiler/assembler reads in your program card deck as data. 5. The compiler outputs your object code as a deck of punched cards. 6. You load in the punched cards (the object deck) to test your program. This cycle is repeated, churning out a new deck of object cards, for each iteration of your program. We sure have it easy these days. He speaks of the drum memory as having been a big improvement at the time, when it could be used. These days Dad will dabble once in awhile in Lotus 123 but mostly Mom has the Thinkpad (their only computer) to herself. Her heritage is the years she spent before computers, typing right and left justified text on memeograph stencils for church bulletins. I'm sure she can still center text of arbitrary length on a typed page with a Selectric. -------------- next part -------------- --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.581 / Virus Database: 368 - Release Date: 2/9/2004 From esharpe at uswest.net Fri Feb 13 00:26:25 2004 From: esharpe at uswest.net (ed sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:24 2005 Subject: For Chip Collectors References: <005401c3ef21$43c52a60$77406b43@66067007><001701c3ef39$24dc5660$ade681ac@aoldsl.net> <001b01c3f1f7$36e0e3b0$6400a8c0@widgetbaad900b> Message-ID: <000b01c3f1fa$4e65fa90$976a6e44@SONYDIGITALED> a bit on the pricey side eh? might just be easier to find a smashed up calc. and finish the gutting.... Thanks Ed Sharpe archivist for SMECC Please check our web site at http://www.smecc.org to see other engineering fields, communications and computation stuff we buy, and by all means when in Arizona drop in and see us. address: coury house / smecc 5802 w palmaire ave glendale az 85301 ----- Original Message ----- From: "UnR00ster" To: "Ed Sharpe" ; "General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only" Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2004 11:04 PM Subject: Re: For Chip Collectors > E-Bay > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3457796755&category=3674 > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ed Sharpe" > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > Sent: Monday, February 09, 2004 11:18 AM > Subject: Re: For Chip Collectors > > > > neat group.... > > if some kind soul out there has a 4004 and an 8008 > > microprocessor thaey would be willing to share, sell or barter let us > > know... > > > > Thanks! > > > > Ed Sharpe Archivist for SMECC > > > > See the Southwest Museum of Engineering, Communications and Computation > > online at: > > http://www.smecc.org > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Keys" > > To: "cctalk@classiccmp" > > Sent: Monday, February 09, 2004 8:27 AM > > Subject: For Chip Collectors > > > > > > > Check this auction, I have NOTHING to do with it or the parson selling. > > > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2786033645&category=1247 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From nickgraber at mchsi.com Thu Feb 12 11:59:41 2004 From: nickgraber at mchsi.com (nickgraber@mchsi.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:24 2005 Subject: 2430 Message-ID: <200402121813.i1CID9OD028441@huey.classiccmp.org> Im looking into buying a 2430 tek scope but was wondering if you found out what was wrong with your scope. the one I with to buy fails trigs ccd and pa. I was just wonder if you would know what that ment for the scope. and my other question is that the scope says it is 50 ohm 5v and 1 Mohm 400vp is that switchable at the scope or do you have to get a fet probe to use the scope at 1Mohm 400vp ? From nickpug at hotmail.com Thu Feb 12 14:24:55 2004 From: nickpug at hotmail.com (nick) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:24 2005 Subject: sol-20 Message-ID: Hi was wondering if you know anyone that would be interested in two working sol-20 one 16k and the other 64k with the helios 4 disk drive, and two original moniters. From jhs at edg.com Thu Feb 12 16:33:40 2004 From: jhs at edg.com (John H. Spicer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:24 2005 Subject: Pixel Machines Message-ID: <402BFF44.6070909@edg.com> > There's a AT&T/Pixel Machines model 964d 'video thing' down at university > salvage, and I was wondering if anyone had any information on them. It > appears to have been produced in 1989 by an offshoot of AT&T called "Pixel > Machines". Using google, the only result I can get that matches "Pixel > Machines" and 964 or 964d is a thesis of some sort, which doesn't have a > whole lot of useful information on the beast. As far as I can tell, it's > some sort of redering/raytracing 'thing', and from its outputs, it appears > like it might output NTSC video. > > I'm not sure yet if I want to bother lugging it up here - it's about > 2ft x 2ft x 1ft in size, and looks like it might weigh as much as a small > car. > > Thanks for any information you guys can turn up, > I just did a search on "AT&T Pixel Machines" and came up with this thread. I don't know if this reply will end up anywhere or not! I used to work for AT&T Pixel Machines. The Pixel Machine is a programmable graphics system. It used AT&T DSP32 signal processing chips, which featured impressive (for the time) floating-point performance. Each system had a 9 or 18 stage systolic array that was normally used as a graphics transformation pipeline. Each system also had between 16 and 64 processing nodes. Each node contained an interleaved portion of the frame buffer. The DSP32 ran at 5 MHZ and could do a floating-point multiple/accumulate each cycle, for 10 MFLOPS per processor. The system had up to 82 processors, for a maximum theoretical throughput of 820 MFLOPS. It did some pretty impressive graphics. Particularly high-end rendering, ray-tracing, and image processing. It operated as an attached processor to a VME bus based Sun system. It output video in 1280x1024 and also NTSC. Nowadays, of course, a single Pentium would run circles around it. John Spicer Edison Design Group From kenacms at ngatoro.terrigal.net.au Thu Feb 12 23:49:04 2004 From: kenacms at ngatoro.terrigal.net.au (Ken Kirkby (ACMS)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:24 2005 Subject: ever de-rack a TS11? In-Reply-To: <200402112200.i1BM0wh32248@mwave.heeltoe.com> from "Brad Parker" at Feb 11, 4 05:00:58 pm Message-ID: <200402130538.i1D5cFN28118@ngatoro.terrigal.net.au> > > > Has anyone ever removed a TS-11 from a rack? Any advice? > > I assume the first thing to do it to remove the door (after > disconnecting all the cables :-) > > Once the door is odd it looks like the front screws will allow the frame > to slide forward and out. > > Is the frame heavy? (i.e. can one person remove it?) > > -brad > Its a fair lift for a fit person, its a cast frame. If its in a DEC cabinet, normally there are a couple of lead bars underneath. A friend and myself once tried to swing a TS11 in cabinet over a railing, just as we were about have a heart attack as the cabinet came to the horizontal, we saw the lead bars &^*^*^*^%&$$#!!@# Ken Kirkby From stanb at dial.pipex.com Fri Feb 13 03:49:44 2004 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:24 2005 Subject: Hobbyist VMS (was: Got a DEC 2000 Alpha server, need help) In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 12 Feb 2004 14:38:41 PST." <200402122238.i1CMcfx6029606@onyx.spiritone.com> Message-ID: <200402130949.JAA21447@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, "Zane H. Healy" said: > > BTW, Zane, your posts come out as one long line rather than having lines shorter > > than 80 characters. > > Bleep! You mean I'm one of those annoying B******'s that I hate? I'll have > to see if I can find the setting to change in the new version of Eudora. > Anyone use Eudora and have any ideas? On the Mac it's under Special > Settings > Composing Mail > Word wrap. HTH -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From geoffreythomas at onetel.net.uk Fri Feb 13 07:14:12 2004 From: geoffreythomas at onetel.net.uk (Geoffrey Thomas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:24 2005 Subject: need some info on some sort of pocket terminal References: <5.1.0.14.0.20030917020124.00a0cba0@pop-server.socal.rr.com> <3F6835AB.266CBA34@xs4all.nl> <3F6A234B.EBBD48C1@cs.ubc.ca> Message-ID: <008701c3f235$340a8900$5b4e4ed5@geoff> Just noticed this in my ccmp "saved " folder, this was rec'd just before a holiday in Canada, and was forgotten. Do you need pinouts for N8T15 & 16 ? They are N8T15 : Gate 1 13,12,11,10 i/p's 9 o/p. Gate 2 1, 2 , 3 , 4 i/p's 5 o/p. 14 Vcc 8 Vee 7 Gnd. N8T16 : Gate 1 Gate 2 Output 13 2 Strobe 12 3 Hysteresis 11 4 MIL(+) 10 5 EIA 9 6 MIL(-) 8 1 Vcc 14 Gnd 7 The only caveat is that the MIL(-) connections are not clearly allocated to either gate on the pinout. I " ASSUME " they are as shown as it seems logical to keep all the conns. for each gate on one side of the package - but you never know ! By the way my data shows for the N8T16 I/P voltage +- 25V Sensitivity - 1.2/1.2V Geoff. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brent Hilpert" To: Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2003 9:27 PM Subject: Re: need some info on some sort of pocket terminal > > There is an N8T15 & N8T16 chip on the board, are these similar to the M1488 & M1489 > > rs232 line driver chips? > > ... found listings in an IC Master (1982) (sorry no pinouts): > > N8T15 (Signetics): Line drivers, single-ended (2 per device) > / 4-input; RS232B,C; MIL188 / Output +-6V / Power Supply +-12V > > N8T16 (Signetics): Line receivers (2 per device) > / hysteresis EIA/MIL / Input Threshold +-2V / Supply Voltage 5V From uban at ubanproductions.com Fri Feb 13 09:11:27 2004 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:24 2005 Subject: RLL vs. MFM Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20040213090932.03681810@mail.ubanproductions.com> A friend wants to know if he can use an ST238R RLL drive with am MFM controller. It has been to long for me to remember the answer to that question, so I'll let the knowing people of this list enter your votes. --tnx --tom From dwoyciesjes at comcast.net Fri Feb 13 09:14:56 2004 From: dwoyciesjes at comcast.net (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:24 2005 Subject: ever de-rack a TS11? References: <200402130538.i1D5cFN28118@ngatoro.terrigal.net.au> Message-ID: <402CE9F0.D7F3A48B@comcast.net> Ken --- You might want to check your system clock. This message shows a date of 12/31/1969... "Ken Kirkby (ACMS)" wrote: > > > > > > > Has anyone ever removed a TS-11 from a rack? Any advice? > > > > I assume the first thing to do it to remove the door (after > > disconnecting all the cables :-) > > > > Once the door is odd it looks like the front screws will allow the frame > > to slide forward and out. > > > > Is the frame heavy? (i.e. can one person remove it?) > > > > -brad > > > Its a fair lift for a fit person, its a cast frame. If its in a DEC > cabinet, normally there are a couple of lead bars underneath. > > A friend and myself once tried to swing a TS11 in cabinet over a railing, > just as we were about have a heart attack as the cabinet came to the > horizontal, we saw the lead bars &^*^*^*^%&$$#!!@# > > Ken Kirkby -- --- Dave Woyciesjes --- ICQ# 905818 From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Feb 13 09:22:58 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:24 2005 Subject: RLL vs. MFM In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20040213090932.03681810@mail.ubanproductions.com> References: <5.2.0.9.0.20040213090932.03681810@mail.ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <402CEBD2.3090509@atarimuseum.com> As I recall, RLL's need a different controller to handle the, ahem.... "larger" format ;-) Curt Tom Uban wrote: > A friend wants to know if he can use an ST238R RLL drive with am MFM > controller. It has been to long for me to remember the answer to > that question, so I'll let the knowing people of this list enter > your votes. > > --tnx > --tom > > -- Curt Vendel & Karl Morris ----------------------------------------------------------------------- The Atari Museum http://www.atarimuseum.com The Atari Explorer http://www.atari-explorer.com From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Feb 13 09:25:04 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:24 2005 Subject: ever de-rack a TS11? In-Reply-To: <402CE9F0.D7F3A48B@comcast.net> References: <200402130538.i1D5cFN28118@ngatoro.terrigal.net.au> <402CE9F0.D7F3A48B@comcast.net> Message-ID: <402CEC50.1050607@atarimuseum.com> Maybe he's using a time machine and talking to us from back in 1969 ;-) "One point twenty one gigawatts Marty!!!" Curt David Woyciesjes wrote: >Ken --- > You might want to check your system clock. This message shows a date of >12/31/1969... > >"Ken Kirkby (ACMS)" wrote: > > >>>Has anyone ever removed a TS-11 from a rack? Any advice? >>> >>>I assume the first thing to do it to remove the door (after >>>disconnecting all the cables :-) >>> >>>Once the door is odd it looks like the front screws will allow the frame >>>to slide forward and out. >>> >>>Is the frame heavy? (i.e. can one person remove it?) >>> >>>-brad >>> >>> >>> >>Its a fair lift for a fit person, its a cast frame. If its in a DEC >>cabinet, normally there are a couple of lead bars underneath. >> >>A friend and myself once tried to swing a TS11 in cabinet over a railing, >>just as we were about have a heart attack as the cabinet came to the >>horizontal, we saw the lead bars &^*^*^*^%&$$#!!@# >> >>Ken Kirkby >> >> > > >-- >--- Dave Woyciesjes >--- ICQ# 905818 > > > -- Curt Vendel & Karl Morris ----------------------------------------------------------------------- The Atari Museum http://www.atarimuseum.com The Atari Explorer http://www.atari-explorer.com From lbickley at bickleywest.com Fri Feb 13 09:26:25 2004 From: lbickley at bickleywest.com (Lyle Bickley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:24 2005 Subject: RLL vs. MFM References: <5.2.0.9.0.20040213090932.03681810@mail.ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <015901c3f245$bf43c260$61323841@VAIO> Typically you can - if you are willing to loose a great deal of "space". Typically RLL drives were 26 SPT and MFM drives were 17 SPT. The electical interface is the same - the controllers are very different - but in a pinch using an RLL drive with an MFM controller should work O.K. Lyle -- Bickley Consulting West Inc. Mountain View, CA 94040 650-428-0621 "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero" ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Uban" To: Sent: Friday, February 13, 2004 7:11 AM Subject: RLL vs. MFM > A friend wants to know if he can use an ST238R RLL drive with am MFM > controller. It has been to long for me to remember the answer to > that question, so I'll let the knowing people of this list enter > your votes. > > --tnx > --tom > From pcw at mesanet.com Fri Feb 13 09:36:04 2004 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:25 2005 Subject: RLL vs. MFM In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20040213090932.03681810@mail.ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 13 Feb 2004, Tom Uban wrote: > A friend wants to know if he can use an ST238R RLL drive with am MFM > controller. It has been to long for me to remember the answer to > that question, so I'll let the knowing people of this list enter > your votes. > > --tnx > --tom > Yes, an RLL drive will work with a MFM controller, the converse is not always true though. Peter Wallace From vcf at siconic.com Fri Feb 13 10:03:41 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:25 2005 Subject: sol-20 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 12 Feb 2004, nick wrote: > Hi was wondering if you know anyone that would be interested in two > working sol-20 one 16k and the other 64k with the helios 4 disk drive, > and two original moniters. Nobody here would be interested in that. The 4,000 messages you received after posting this are just people playing practical jokes on you. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From esharpe at uswest.net Fri Feb 13 11:20:50 2004 From: esharpe at uswest.net (Ed Sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:25 2005 Subject: **********Re: Straight 8 -- front panel repair References: Message-ID: <001101c3f255$babd0e80$4291a8c0@aoldsl.net> if ya all are patient folk I know I have an extra frontpanel for a straight 8 in one of our buildings that could be for trade. as I recall it is nice. Thanks! Ed Sharpe Archivist for SMECC See the Southwest Museum of Engineering, Communications and Computation online at: http://www.smecc.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vintage Computer Festival" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2004 5:58 PM Subject: Re: Straight 8 -- front panel repair > On Thu, 12 Feb 2004, ben franchuk wrote: > > > > Nisler's PDP-8 is scrap. It can be restored, but I think it makes no > > > sense whatsoever to take apart Pete's PDP-8 to supply parts for Nisler's > > > machine. It should be the other way around if anything. > > > > I beg to differ. Both people need a front pannel to say the least. > > Both people have talents skills and hardware that need to shared. > > While Nisler's PDP-8 is only a pile of parts right now, Kermit > > may still live if he can compare it to a working 8. Pete lacks the > > hardware know how to get his 8 working. Fixing Kirmit and Pete's > > 8 togther gives both people a chance to learn more. > > I posted this message to cctalk in the hopes of people with > > straight 8's and other 8's to share knowlage and information. > > Ben, PA-lease! Have we both seen the same photos of Nisler's PDP-8? His > machine got CREAMED. As I stated before, it can be restored, but I would > NOT take parts from another machine (as you seemingly suggested in your > last message), such as Pete's, which, from the description, sounded like > it was 1,000,000 times more readily restorable than Nisler's. It just > had paint peeling off the front panel glass. Nisler's is a pile of scrap > sitting amidst the rubble of a condemned house. > > "Kermit" is not a person, it's a computer. A smashed computer. And no > matter how you want might want to personify it (calling it Kermit is cute > but doesn't help) it still doesn't change the fact that it has one foot > in the scrap bin. > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage mputers ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > > > From dholland at woh.rr.com Fri Feb 13 10:50:21 2004 From: dholland at woh.rr.com (David Holland) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:25 2005 Subject: Odd question about microwaves and magnetic media In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Every microwave I've ever taken apart has a fairly significant step up transformer in it. (Granted, I've not disassembled a new one in the last couple of years.) I suspect said transformer tosses out a fairly sizeable magnetic field. I am (of course) presuming your not putting the media in the microwave and cooking it. I'm also assuming your concern is the data contained on the media. :-) David On Thu, 12 Feb 2004, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > Can magnetic media setting in proximity to a microwave be affected by the > microwaves or anything else in the oven (the magnetron for instance)? > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > From patrick at evocative.com Fri Feb 13 10:53:57 2004 From: patrick at evocative.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:25 2005 Subject: Odd question about microwaves and magnetic media In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > I am (of course) presuming your not putting the media in > the microwave and cooking it. I'm also assuming your > concern is the data contained on the media. :-) I always put mine in a Tupperware container first, so the bits don't spray all over the inside of the oven. --P From paulpenn at knology.net Fri Feb 13 11:02:02 2004 From: paulpenn at knology.net (Paul Pennington) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:25 2005 Subject: Need drivers for Bernoulli PC2/PC2B interface References: Message-ID: <002201c3f253$1f4181e0$6401a8c0@knology.net> Sellam wrote: > Now, I need the drivers for these cards so I can hook up my Bernoulli Box > (CDS-PC/20) to my PC. However, the PC2 card is basically just a SCSI > interface. Will the Bernoulli Box work with any SCSI interface? In a word, no. I installed one of these for a customer years ago. I think it was the most difficult installation I ever did. Cost the customer a fortune for the special SCSI card from the manufacturer and my labor. I spent hours on the phone with tech support trying to get it to work. Paul Pennington Augusta, Georgia From dwight.elvey at amd.com Fri Feb 13 11:09:52 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:25 2005 Subject: Odd question about microwaves and magnetic media Message-ID: <200402131709.JAA12547@clulw009.amd.com> Hi Yes, the stray magnetic fields can cause problems. The RF shouldn't be an issue. It might be a fun experiment to place a floppy in one to see if it gets thermal damage. Not only the magnitron that has a strong magnet but also flux leakage from the power transformer that is used to produce the high voltage. Dwight >From: "Vintage Computer Festival" > > >Can magnetic media setting in proximity to a microwave be affected by the >microwaves or anything else in the oven (the magnetron for instance)? > >-- > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > >[ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] >[ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > > From dwight.elvey at amd.com Fri Feb 13 11:14:04 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:25 2005 Subject: Odd question about microwaves and magnetic media Message-ID: <200402131714.JAA12551@clulw009.amd.com> Hi I do know that some monitors can produce a strong enough field to disturb the writing action on floppies. I've not had them erase by these fields but it seems that the writing of the floppy is more sensitive to stray fields. I found that increasing the distance by as little a a telephone book can make the difference. Dwight >From: "John Allain" > >> Can magnetic media setting in proximity to a microwave be affected... > >In general I try to keep any magnetic media at least 1 foot from >any electrical devices. For a major consumer of watts, it's more >like 3+ feet. > >John A. >so, how do I get the floppy into the drive then? > > From waltje at pdp11.nl Fri Feb 13 11:16:49 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:25 2005 Subject: RLL vs. MFM In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20040213090932.03681810@mail.ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 13 Feb 2004, Tom Uban wrote: > A friend wants to know if he can use an ST238R RLL drive with am MFM > controller. It has been to long for me to remember the answer to > that question, so I'll let the knowing people of this list enter > your votes. Yes, I used to use an ST225 on an RLL controller (which was way off spec, but it worked - it becomes an ST238R ;-) and I see no reason why it would not work the other way 'round, although the drive or controller might get upset at some point. --f From vcf at siconic.com Fri Feb 13 11:17:18 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:25 2005 Subject: Odd question about microwaves and magnetic media In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 13 Feb 2004, David Holland wrote: > Every microwave I've ever taken apart has a fairly significant > step up transformer in it. (Granted, I've not disassembled a new > one in the last couple of years.) > > I suspect said transformer tosses out a fairly sizeable magnetic field. > > I am (of course) presuming your not putting the media in > the microwave and cooking it. I'm also assuming your > concern is the data contained on the media. :-) Right ;) Space in my office is somewhat limited at the moment (due to my own incorrigible clutter problem) so I've put the microwave oven for heating my burritos on the same table where I'm setting up my data conversion station. I guess it probably isn't be a good idea. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Fri Feb 13 11:18:25 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:25 2005 Subject: Need drivers for Bernoulli PC2/PC2B interface In-Reply-To: <002201c3f253$1f4181e0$6401a8c0@knology.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 13 Feb 2004, Paul Pennington wrote: > > Now, I need the drivers for these cards so I can hook up my Bernoulli Box > > (CDS-PC/20) to my PC. However, the PC2 card is basically just a SCSI > > interface. Will the Bernoulli Box work with any SCSI interface? > > In a word, no. I installed one of these for a customer years ago. I > think it was the most difficult installation I ever did. Cost the customer > a fortune for the special SCSI card from the manufacturer and my labor. I > spent hours on the phone with tech support trying to get it to work. Ugh. Can you remember what type of problems you were having? Interrupts? DMA? Bad cable? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Fri Feb 13 11:19:23 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:25 2005 Subject: Odd question about microwaves and magnetic media In-Reply-To: <200402131709.JAA12547@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 13 Feb 2004, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > Yes, the stray magnetic fields can cause problems. The > RF shouldn't be an issue. It might be a fun experiment > to place a floppy in one to see if it gets thermal > damage. Not only the magnitron that has a strong magnet > but also flux leakage from the power transformer that > is used to produce the high voltage. Interesting. I wonder if a microwave would make a good degausser? That is, if the meda survives intact. I'll run some tests. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Fri Feb 13 11:20:14 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:25 2005 Subject: Odd question about microwaves and magnetic media In-Reply-To: <200402131714.JAA12551@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 13 Feb 2004, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > I do know that some monitors can produce a strong enough > field to disturb the writing action on floppies. I've not > had them erase by these fields but it seems that the writing > of the floppy is more sensitive to stray fields. I found > that increasing the distance by as little a a telephone book > can make the difference. Ok, another experiment: place a floppy disk with data on a large monitor and hit the degauss button, then check to see what is left on the disk :) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From waltje at pdp11.nl Fri Feb 13 11:24:27 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:25 2005 Subject: Odd question about microwaves and magnetic media In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 13 Feb 2004, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > Space in my office is somewhat limited at the moment (due to my own > incorrigible clutter problem) so I've put the microwave oven for heating > my burritos on the same table where I'm setting up my data conversion > station. > > I guess it probably isn't be a good idea. That is an INSANE idea, you dork! You have plenty space up front, so just set up that thing there, or in the main lobby. NOT near magnetic media. Unless of course you have an airline-grade microwave oven, which is shielded to the absurd extremes. --f From jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to Fri Feb 13 11:55:58 2004 From: jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:25 2005 Subject: Help with RT-11 V02B Message-ID: <402D0FAE.835F0CB0@compsys.to> I have found two RX01 images for V02B of RT-11. But I would prefer to have the files on an RK05 image. Thus, I copied all of the files to an RK05 image after which I used E11 to BOOT the RX01 image (I tried to "BOOT RX0" using SIMH, but I was not successful, although "BOOT RK0" was successful under both SIMH and E11): For those of you who don't remember, the original PIP program handled all of what are now (DIR, PIP, DUP). I am able to BOOT DX0 under E11 and: .R PIP *DX0:/L *RK0:/L and see a directory listing of the files on both devices, so E11 and the code must be working OK. I am also able to take an RK05 image of a V02C RT-11 distribution and BOOT the RK05, so the boot program in E11 is also correct (and works on SIMH as well). HOWEVER!!!!!!!!!!!!! After I "BOOT DX0" and: .R PIP *RK0:*=RK0:RKMNSJ.SYS/U Then back to E11 and "BOOT RK0" It does not work! But if I "BOOT DX0" again and: .R PIP *RK0:*=RK0:MONITR.SYS/U and repeat, then I am able to "BOOT RK0", but I end up on DX0, which is what I would expect since under V02B, the file MONITR.SYS is really DXMNSJ.SYS and has all the stuff to boot DX0 which it does do! So what might be wrong? Any Ideas? In addition, when I: .R PIP *DX0:*=DX0:DXMNFB.SYS/U and then go back to E11 and "BOOT DX0", the expected boot of DXMNFB.SYS also does not work. Maybe I am using the wrong switches for V02B of RT-11 or the files DXMNFB.SYS and RKMNSJ.SYS are corrupted. Note that I am not really concerned with using V02B of RT-11, but I wish to make up a CD containing as many versions of RT-11, including V05.03 and prior, as are available. So while I have two RX01 images for V02B of RT-11, I would also like to have a bootable RK05 image of V02B as well. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From dwight.elvey at amd.com Fri Feb 13 12:22:13 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:25 2005 Subject: Odd question about microwaves and magnetic media Message-ID: <200402131822.KAA12621@clulw009.amd.com> Hi Does the tupperware work for un-cracked eggs as well or do they just blow the lid off? Dwight >From: "Patrick Rigney" > >> I am (of course) presuming your not putting the media in >> the microwave and cooking it. I'm also assuming your >> concern is the data contained on the media. :-) > >I always put mine in a Tupperware container first, so the bits don't spray >all over the inside of the oven. --P > > From sanepsycho at globaldialog.com Fri Feb 13 13:04:11 2004 From: sanepsycho at globaldialog.com (Paul Berger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:25 2005 Subject: sol-20 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1076699051.2268.0.camel@linux.local> On Fri, 2004-02-13 at 10:03, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Thu, 12 Feb 2004, nick wrote: > > > Hi was wondering if you know anyone that would be interested in two > > working sol-20 one 16k and the other 64k with the helios 4 disk drive, > > and two original moniters. > > Nobody here would be interested in that. The 4,000 messages you received > after posting this are just people playing practical jokes on you. LOL, GOOD ONE!!! Paul From waltje at pdp11.nl Fri Feb 13 13:05:07 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:25 2005 Subject: Encompass (was: Re: Hobbyist VMS (was: Got a DEC 2000 Alpha server, need help)) Message-ID: All, Whoa. You dont hear for ages, and then boom, there it is! > Dear Fred, > > Welcome to Encompass! Your associate application has been processed and > your Associate ID is listed above. We apologize for any delay in > processing. As a complimentary Associate of Encompass, you will have > access > to our web site in the public areas that do not require a password. If > at > any time you would like to upgrade your membership to the Individual > level, > a password will be granted to you for the privileged areas (discussion > forums, discounts, seminar proceedings, Encompass business and minutes, > etc). > > In a few days, you will be able to access the VMS Hobbyist license using > your ID number. More information about that program can be found at > http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist/. Over the next few months, be on the > lookout for changes to our web site, www.EncompassUS.org, and other > communications from the Board of Directors and our headquarters office. > > If you have any questions or concerns, please do not hesitate to contact > us > at Information@EncompassUS.org or call us at 877-354-9887. ... Do note, that this is based on my *US* info, not the European one; that one is still, um, in progress? --f From toresbe at ifi.uio.no Fri Feb 13 11:37:31 2004 From: toresbe at ifi.uio.no (Tore S Bekkedal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:25 2005 Subject: PDP11/34 Message-ID: <004601c3f258$119001c0$f5b99fc3@ra3> >I visited a customer in Sweden today. In the corner was a packed-up PDP >11/34. I dont know beans about PDP, but that is what they told me. There >seemed to be a CPU, a disk drive and a few disc packs >Would that be interesting for anyone ? If so, I can ask the customer if we >can have it Oh my God - I choked on my evening coffee reading this... I'd truly love it, and my geography aligns slightly. Being 15 and without a driver's lisence, I have no opportunity to drive it myself. But I do have some friends with lisences... I don't know for sure if I can get it (If it's availible I'd walk over corpses for one ;)) I would really really really love it. Where in Sweden is this? What configuration is it? One rack? Many? Mange mange tak for brevet! -tsb From cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net Fri Feb 13 13:40:34 2004 From: cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:25 2005 Subject: Encompass (was: Re: Hobbyist VMS (was: Got a DEC 2000 Alpha server, need help)) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1076701234.6263.9.camel@morden.cc.vt.edu> On Fri, 2004-02-13 at 14:05, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > All, > > Whoa. You dont hear for ages, and then boom, there it is! > Heh. They must have had a clog in the queue, because I also got my encompass ID today. -- Christopher L McNabb Tel: 540 231 7554 Operating Systems Analyst Email: cmcnabb@vt.edu Virginia Tech ICBM: 37.205622N 80.414595W GMRS: WPSR255 ARS: N2UX Grid Sq: EM97SD From cfandt at netsync.net Fri Feb 13 13:51:07 2004 From: cfandt at netsync.net (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:25 2005 Subject: Straight 8 -- front panel repair In-Reply-To: <402AF850.5080706@jetnet.ab.ca> References: <9B832BEB407A774AA0520CCFC2322197020CE936@CXOEXC11.AMERICAS.CPQCORP.NET> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.2.20040213141042.0266bc80@pop3.norton.antivirus> A few sources that some of us radio folks use for making reproduction flat dials on old radios could help. Here is contact info for several that I know so far: Lynn Brock email: n0alo@kans.com (good reputation) Radio Daze http://www.radiodaze.com/reproglassdials.htm And a non-glass source (made from acrylic sheet, etc.): Rock Sea Enterprises http://members.aol.com/RockSeaEnt/ This is a start to help find a way to have PDP-8 fronts reproduced. An old time radio company called Hallicrafters made decent quality radio receivers for commercial, military and Ham or shortwave listening use. They had made several radio models with relatively large glass dial panels which had markings silk screened onto the back. With age and especially poor storage conditions those markings would peel off like Peter's PDP-8 panel did. At least Peter McCollum, who initiated this thread, could benefit. The folks above make replacement dials for such radios and one or more may be convinced to give you a cost quotation for your -8. On the other hand, in checking recently added photos on Jeff Nisler's website (the fella who had his PDP-8 *and* house thoroughly demolished by a decidedly errant automobile) I agree his PDP-8 is wrecked so much that it would not be practical to restore it. Some untouched PC boards and other parts may be salvaged, but the rest sure looks like toast. What a sad, miserable mess. I would be absolutely heartsick to have to go through that. -Chris NNNN Upon the date 08:51 PM 2/11/04 -0700, ben franchuk said something like: >McCollum, Peter wrote: >>Hi all, >>Just joined up. >>I have a straight-8 in the garage (not working, but repairable I think) >>with an ASR-33. No other perpherals. >>Also have an 8-E (almost working I think). It has several option/IO cards >>in it, but no actual perpherals. >>I started with DEC in 1981, in a Test Engineering group for Storage. >>Here's my first question: >>What should I do about the glass on the straight-8 front panel? The paint >>markings are peeling off. Is there a recommended way to preserve it? >>Or, has anyone made a graphic template that can be used to print a new >>panel, and put it behind a piece of plain glass? >>Regards, >>Pete > >You need to get in touch with this guy >about getting your straight 8 working. >His 8 has suffered major damage and >needs major parts like a core memory >and backplane and front panel. >See this web site for details. >http://nisler.org/crash/ >** warning -- not for the faint hearted ** >I am also posting this to classic computers >since a lot of people have 8's there. >A replacement front panel and other parts >may be a good group effort for the people >that still have straight 8's. >Ben. > > > Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.antiquewireless.org/ From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Fri Feb 13 13:54:48 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:25 2005 Subject: Yay - got my Encompass ID! Message-ID: And the email says I'll be able to access the VMS Hobbyist licenses in a few days.... Fred, I think they're picking on you, mate :) Just got to sort out an oddity with PHP and the webserver will be up and running.....seems quick too, though from inside the firewall it would, wouldn't it. -- Adrian/Witchy Owner & Webmaster, Binary Dinosaurs www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From pkoning at equallogic.com Fri Feb 13 13:53:14 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:25 2005 Subject: PDP11/34 References: <004601c3f258$119001c0$f5b99fc3@ra3> Message-ID: <16429.11050.194000.101302@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Tore" == Tore S Bekkedal writes: >> I visited a customer in Sweden today. In the corner was a >> packed-up PDP 11/34. I dont know beans about PDP, but that is what >> they told me. There seemed to be a CPU, a disk drive and a few >> disc packs Would that be interesting for anyone ? If so, I can ask >> the customer if we can have it Tore> Oh my God - I choked on my evening coffee reading this... Tore> I'd truly love it, and my geography aligns slightly. Being 15 Tore> and without a driver's lisence... This is neat.... a computer almost twice as old as you are! Go for it! paul From patrick at evocative.com Fri Feb 13 13:54:56 2004 From: patrick at evocative.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:25 2005 Subject: [OT] RE: Odd question about microwaves and magnetic media In-Reply-To: <200402131822.KAA12621@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: > Does the tupperware work for un-cracked eggs as well > or do they just blow the lid off? > Dwight Hmmm... I haven't tried myself, but based on an experience, I think that lid's blown off. My Dad's not much of a cook. When I was a teenager and we first got a microwave, he thought he'd soft-boil an egg for my Mom with it. He knew better than to put an egg in the microwave "naked". Unfortunately, his impression of the "right" thing to do was put it in a Pyrex measuring cup filled with water. The ensuing explosion pasted the innards of the oven with semi-cooked egg. It was not forceful enough to fracture the Pyrex cup, but was able to overcome the door seal and pop the oven door open. Based on that, I think the lid of a Tupperware would not have been up to it. Patrick P.S. Some years later, while my parents were living in a temporary apartment after the Oakland Hills fire, he again needed to cook eggs, this time hard-boiled. Having learned his lesson, he chose to use a pot on the stove for a safer, more familiar approach. Water into pot, eggs into water, pot onto the stove. But there was a problem... he didn't have a timer. So, he set the microwave for 20 minutes and started it (empty, on high of course), and went to take a shower, assuming he'd hear the beep when the time expired. During his shower he heard some strange noises, and when he finally reached the kitchen (wrapped in a towel), he was greeted by the local Fire Department, who had been dispatched by the building's central smoke detectors and just extinguished the microwave and the cabinet from which it hung. You should see what he does to Windows. :-) From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Feb 13 13:57:47 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:25 2005 Subject: RLL vs. MFM In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20040213090932.03681810@mail.ubanproductions.com> References: <5.2.0.9.0.20040213090932.03681810@mail.ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <20040213115542.V22512@newshell.lmi.net> On Fri, 13 Feb 2004, Tom Uban wrote: > A friend wants to know if he can use an ST238R RLL drive with am MFM > controller. It has been to long for me to remember the answer to > that question, so I'll let the knowing people of this list enter > your votes. YES. The MFM controller will provide about 2/3 the capacity that RLL would, usually with slightly better reliability. When using 512 bytes per sector, the sectors per track will be 17. Number of cylinders and number of heads will not change. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Fri Feb 13 14:00:17 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:25 2005 Subject: Encompass (was: Re: Hobbyist VMS (was: Got a DEC 2000 Alphaserver, need help)) In-Reply-To: <1076701234.6263.9.camel@morden.cc.vt.edu> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Christopher McNabb > Sent: 13 February 2004 19:41 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: Encompass (was: Re: Hobbyist VMS (was: Got a DEC > 2000 Alphaserver, need help)) > > On Fri, 2004-02-13 at 14:05, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > > All, > > > > Whoa. You dont hear for ages, and then boom, there it is! > > > > Heh. They must have had a clog in the queue, because I also > got my encompass ID today. Well that's just pissed on my chips hasn't it :o)) Cheers w From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Feb 13 14:10:23 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:25 2005 Subject: RLL vs. MFM In-Reply-To: <402CEBD2.3090509@atarimuseum.com> References: <5.2.0.9.0.20040213090932.03681810@mail.ubanproductions.com> <402CEBD2.3090509@atarimuseum.com> Message-ID: <20040213120213.T22512@newshell.lmi.net> > As I recall, RLL's need a different controller to handle the, ahem.... > "larger" format ;-) To GET/USE the higher capacity per track, one must, indeed use the different controller. But the ONLY difference between a 25M MFM drive, and a 38M RLL drive is whether the DRIVE can reliably handle a higher flux density recording. They are quite literally the same drive, but the MFM drive is not certified/rated for the higher density recording. Many people would try to go the other way, and use MFM drives with RLLcontrollers. They would proudly declare that "IT WORKS PERFECTLY". And later complain about "those crummy Seagate drives" when they found out the hard way that drives that weren't RATED for RLL recording were often NOT capable of doing it RELIABLY. Think in terms of "could you use a diskette that is rated for double density, if you are going to record single density?" -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From patrick at evocative.com Fri Feb 13 14:20:55 2004 From: patrick at evocative.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:25 2005 Subject: [OT] Speaking of explosion... Message-ID: Sorry everyone, it's Friday, and my mind isn't on focused on work at all. I thought I'd share something I found humorous. I just got a recall notice and replacement battery for my Kyocera phone. In the letter that accompanied the new battery, written by a Kyocera attorney, it was said that there was little risk of a widespread problem, and only a few people had been affected by the (I quote) "rapid disassembly" of the device, and of those, only one person had received second degree burns, and property damage in other cases was minor. "Rapid disassembly" ??? As if angry little gnomes in the battery wake up and start taking it apart and throwing pieces around (flaming pieces, I'd assume, given that burns and property damage resulted)? I assume he meant it can *explode*, or is that a "forceful rapid disassembly" (and therefore something entirely different). Anyway, whatever you do, don't let those gnomes into your classic computers. I can only assume those of you with caps that have given in to rapid disassembly (or perhaps even forceful rapid disassembly, or worse, sudden intense warming accompanied by forceful rapid disassembly and ensuing off-gassing of combustion by-products) let those gnomes get in there. Have a great weekend, all... --Patrick :o) From pkoning at equallogic.com Fri Feb 13 14:23:43 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:25 2005 Subject: Help with RT-11 V02B References: <402D0FAE.835F0CB0@compsys.to> Message-ID: <16429.12879.834885.566061@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Jerome" == Jerome H Fine writes: Jerome> HOWEVER!!!!!!!!!!!!! After I "BOOT DX0" and: Jerome> .R PIP *RK0:*=RK0:RKMNSJ.SYS/U Jerome> Then back to E11 and "BOOT RK0" It does not work! Jerome> But if I "BOOT DX0" again and: Jerome> .R PIP *RK0:*=RK0:MONITR.SYS/U Jerome> and repeat, then I am able to "BOOT RK0", but I end up on Jerome> DX0, which is what I would expect since under V02B, the file Jerome> MONITR.SYS is really DXMNSJ.SYS and has all the stuff to boot Jerome> DX0 which it does do! Jerome> So what might be wrong? Any Ideas? In addition, when I: Jerome> .R PIP *DX0:*=DX0:DXMNFB.SYS/U Jerome> and then go back to E11 and "BOOT DX0", the expected boot of Jerome> DXMNFB.SYS also does not work. Maybe I am using the wrong Jerome> switches for V02B of RT-11 or the files DXMNFB.SYS and Jerome> RKMNSJ.SYS are corrupted. No, the problem is that the monitor you want to boot MUST be called MONITR.SYS. So the correct commands are: .r pip *rk0:monitr.sys=rk0:rkmnsj.sys *rk0:a=rk0:monitr.sys/u Ditto if you want to switch monitors on the floppy boot medium. You copied the floppy system, so the monitr.sys you have is the one that is intended for a floppy disk as the system disk. When you hooked that (with /u) indeed it will boot the DX0 system. Not because "under V02B, MONITR.SYS is really DXMNSJ.SYS" but rather because you started from a floppy system so on THAT system, MONITR.SYS is a monitor built for a floppy system device. See also page 4-34 in the RT11 SYSGEN manual, which you can find at http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/pdp11/rt11/DEC-11-ORGMA-A-D_RT11v2Sysg.pdf That describes the procedure for switching between SJ and FB monitors, which clearly shows that the key issue is that the monitor you want to boot is always MONITR.SYS. paul From cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net Fri Feb 13 14:40:28 2004 From: cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:25 2005 Subject: [OT] Speaking of explosion... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1076704828.6263.14.camel@morden.cc.vt.edu> On Fri, 2004-02-13 at 15:20, Patrick Rigney wrote: > "Rapid disassembly" ??? As if angry little gnomes in the battery wake up > and start taking it apart and throwing pieces around (flaming pieces, I'd > assume, given that burns and property damage resulted)? That reminds me of a call I received from Dell a while back. They called to inform me that due to a manufacturing defect one of my servers "could have an inadvertant release of smoke". It left me wondering about advertant releases of smoke. -- Christopher L McNabb Tel: 540 231 7554 Operating Systems Analyst Email: cmcnabb@vt.edu Virginia Tech ICBM: 37.205622N 80.414595W GMRS: WPSR255 ARS: N2UX Grid Sq: EM97SD From cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net Fri Feb 13 14:40:30 2004 From: cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:25 2005 Subject: [OT] Speaking of explosion... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1076704828.6263.16.camel@morden.cc.vt.edu> On Fri, 2004-02-13 at 15:20, Patrick Rigney wrote: > "Rapid disassembly" ??? As if angry little gnomes in the battery wake up > and start taking it apart and throwing pieces around (flaming pieces, I'd > assume, given that burns and property damage resulted)? That reminds me of a call I received from Dell a while back. They called to inform me that due to a manufacturing defect one of my servers "could have an inadvertant release of smoke". It left me wondering about advertant releases of smoke. -- Christopher L McNabb Tel: 540 231 7554 Operating Systems Analyst Email: cmcnabb@vt.edu Virginia Tech ICBM: 37.205622N 80.414595W GMRS: WPSR255 ARS: N2UX Grid Sq: EM97SD From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Feb 13 15:01:08 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:25 2005 Subject: Odd question about microwaves and magnetic media In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040213125820.C24578@newshell.lmi.net> > > I am (of course) presuming your not putting the media in > > the microwave and cooking it. magnetic media is nowhere near as interesting as CDs On Fri, 13 Feb 2004, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > Right ;) > Space in my office is somewhat limited at the moment (due to my own > incorrigible clutter problem) so I've put the microwave oven for heating > my burritos on the same table where I'm setting up my data conversion > station. > I guess it probably isn't be a good idea. Keep it away! In data conversion, you are often dealing with the ONLY EXISTING copy of stuff! The microwave oven belongs on top of the Windoze XP machine. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Feb 13 15:09:52 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:25 2005 Subject: sol-20 In-Reply-To: <1076699051.2268.0.camel@linux.local> References: <1076699051.2268.0.camel@linux.local> Message-ID: <20040213130814.I24578@newshell.lmi.net> > > > Hi was wondering if you know anyone that would be interested in two > > > working sol-20 one 16k and the other 64k with the helios 4 disk drive, > > > and two original moniters. > > Nobody here would be interested in that. The 4,000 messages you received > > after posting this are just people playing practical jokes on you. > LOL, GOOD ONE!!! It's true. I don't want one. But if you are having a hard time disposing of it, I'll take care of getting rid of it for you. From vcf at siconic.com Fri Feb 13 15:20:24 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:25 2005 Subject: [OT] RE: Odd question about microwaves and magnetic media In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 13 Feb 2004, Patrick Rigney wrote: > Hmmm... I haven't tried myself, but based on an experience, I think that > lid's blown off. My Dad's not much of a cook. When I was a teenager and we > first got a microwave, he thought he'd soft-boil an egg for my Mom with it. > He knew better than to put an egg in the microwave "naked". Unfortunately, > his impression of the "right" thing to do was put it in a Pyrex measuring > cup filled with water. The ensuing explosion pasted the innards of the oven > with semi-cooked egg. It was not forceful enough to fracture the Pyrex cup, > but was able to overcome the door seal and pop the oven door open. Based on > that, I think the lid of a Tupperware would not have been up to it. I've learned the hard way that eggs just don't belong in microwaves. My first experience was heating an already hard-boiled egg just prior to it exploding in the microwave. Instead, it waited until my first byte, and proceeded to explode into my mouth. This resulted in a burned lip...not fun...and egg everywhere (including "on my face" haha). Ok, so my next time I stuck it inside a plastic, lidded container. Well, as you guessed, it proceeded to blow the lid off the container and explode all over the insides of my microwave. Grrr. The only time I heat eggs in the microwave now is if they are thoroughly mashed. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From dwight.elvey at amd.com Fri Feb 13 15:45:01 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:25 2005 Subject: [OT] Speaking of explosion... Message-ID: <200402132145.NAA12907@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Patrick Rigney" > >Sorry everyone, it's Friday, and my mind isn't on focused on work at all. > >I thought I'd share something I found humorous. I just got a recall notice >and replacement battery for my Kyocera phone. In the letter that >accompanied the new battery, written by a Kyocera attorney, it was said that >there was little risk of a widespread problem, and only a few people had >been affected by the (I quote) "rapid disassembly" of the device, and of >those, only one person had received second degree burns, and property damage >in other cases was minor. > ---snip--- When I worked at Intel ( years ago ) we tested power supplies at incoming. One of the units had a "rapid disassembly" of a 2in Dia X 5 in Len electrolytic can. Interesting effect. Dwight From dwight.elvey at amd.com Fri Feb 13 15:45:01 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:25 2005 Subject: [OT] Speaking of explosion... Message-ID: <200402132145.NAA12907@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Patrick Rigney" > >Sorry everyone, it's Friday, and my mind isn't on focused on work at all. > >I thought I'd share something I found humorous. I just got a recall notice >and replacement battery for my Kyocera phone. In the letter that >accompanied the new battery, written by a Kyocera attorney, it was said that >there was little risk of a widespread problem, and only a few people had >been affected by the (I quote) "rapid disassembly" of the device, and of >those, only one person had received second degree burns, and property damage >in other cases was minor. > ---snip--- When I worked at Intel ( years ago ) we tested power supplies at incoming. One of the units had a "rapid disassembly" of a 2in Dia X 5 in Len electrolytic can. Interesting effect. Dwight From spectre at floodgap.com Fri Feb 13 16:07:32 2004 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:25 2005 Subject: sol-20 In-Reply-To: <20040213130814.I24578@newshell.lmi.net> from Fred Cisin at "Feb 13, 4 01:09:52 pm" Message-ID: <200402132207.OAA09554@floodgap.com> > > > > Hi was wondering if you know anyone that would be interested in two > > > > working sol-20 one 16k and the other 64k with the helios 4 disk drive, > > > > and two original moniters. > > > Nobody here would be interested in that. The 4,000 messages you received > > > after posting this are just people playing practical jokes on you. > > LOL, GOOD ONE!!! > It's true. > I don't want one. But if you are having a hard time disposing of it, > I'll take care of getting rid of it for you. Neither do I, but I understand the frustration of having a machine you can't get rid of, so I'll gladly do him the favour. -- ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@floodgap.com -- It's bad luck to be suspicious. -- Andrew W. Mathis ------------------------ From jcwren at jcwren.com Fri Feb 13 16:19:20 2004 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:25 2005 Subject: [OT] RE: Odd question about microwaves and magnetic media In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <402D4D68.20003@jcwren.com> Vintage Computer Festival wrote: >On Fri, 13 Feb 2004, Patrick Rigney wrote: > > > >>Hmmm... I haven't tried myself, but based on an experience, I think that >>lid's blown off. My Dad's not much of a cook. When I was a teenager and we >>first got a microwave, he thought he'd soft-boil an egg for my Mom with it. >>He knew better than to put an egg in the microwave "naked". Unfortunately, >>his impression of the "right" thing to do was put it in a Pyrex measuring >>cup filled with water. The ensuing explosion pasted the innards of the oven >>with semi-cooked egg. It was not forceful enough to fracture the Pyrex cup, >>but was able to overcome the door seal and pop the oven door open. Based on >>that, I think the lid of a Tupperware would not have been up to it. >> >> > >I've learned the hard way that eggs just don't belong in microwaves. My >first experience was heating an already hard-boiled egg just prior to it >exploding in the microwave. Instead, it waited until my first byte, and >proceeded to explode into my mouth. This resulted in a burned lip...not >fun...and egg everywhere (including "on my face" haha). > >Ok, so my next time I stuck it inside a plastic, lidded container. Well, >as you guessed, it proceeded to blow the lid off the container and explode >all over the insides of my microwave. Grrr. > >The only time I heat eggs in the microwave now is if they are thoroughly >mashed. > > > We used to have a hard time explaining to the Orientals at Ga Tech why you don't put Tupperware containers containing fish in the microwave. Leaving the top on was worse, but whatever that "food" is, it would ruin a microwave, lid or not. And the past time of vandalizing the microwave by putting mustard or mayonaise packets in was popular, too. --jc From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Fri Feb 13 18:06:12 2004 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:25 2005 Subject: [OT] Speaking of explosion... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <506f55804c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> In message "Patrick Rigney" wrote: > I thought I'd share something I found humorous. I just got a recall notice > and replacement battery for my Kyocera phone. In the letter that > accompanied the new battery, written by a Kyocera attorney, it was said that > there was little risk of a widespread problem, and only a few people had > been affected by the (I quote) "rapid disassembly" of the device, and of > those, only one person had received second degree burns, and property damage > in other cases was minor. Ugh. Makes me sort-of glad I own a Nokia. With factory-original battery and charger, too, thank-you-very-much. Actually, I tell a lie - I own three Nokias - a pair of 2110i GSM800s with aftermarket (i.e. not Nokia) batteries - and a 6210 with LiIon battery. If only they weren't so damn slow to start up from cold. Later. -- Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, philpem@dsl.pipex.com | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice, http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI ... GUT : God's Undiscovered Thoughts From Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com Fri Feb 13 18:13:01 2004 From: Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com (Davison, Lee) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:25 2005 Subject: Odd question about microwaves and magnetic media Message-ID: <8B39793544120140B253EFE052E7ED0A0171DD20@nbulif015> > Can magnetic media setting in proximity to a microwave be affected by the > microwaves or anything else in the oven (the magnetron for instance)? Not unless the microwave is in some way defective, if it does then it's more a hazzard to you than the magnetic media. > so I've put the microwave oven for heating my burritos on the same table > where I'm setting up my data conversion station. > I guess it probably isn't be a good idea. Probably not, food near IT equipment is never a good idea. > Ok, another experiment: place a floppy disk with data on a large monitor it would be quicker on a small monitor, the degauss field tends to be stronger as the coil is smaller for about the same current, but ... > and hit the degauss button, then check to see what is left on the disk Whatever was on it before for HD disks and usually the same for DD. The inverse square law for the field means you need linear motor strength fields before you can approach the field strength found under the head and reliably erase data. Cheers, Lee. ________________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ________________________________________________________________________ From Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com Fri Feb 13 18:20:57 2004 From: Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com (Davison, Lee) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:25 2005 Subject: Interesting NY Times story... Message-ID: <8B39793544120140B253EFE052E7ED0A0171DD21@nbulif015> > Stuff today is so inaccessible from a retroist point of view. > The cellular networks 50-75 years from now probably won't support > what we use today, and unless cellular towers will be cheap, > abundant, and easy to store in our garage, we probably won't be > setting up our own networks to see how far we can call for fun. Setting up a celular base station while not trivial is not impossible. The hardest part is the RF Tx and Rx sections, of which you need at least two if you want to place calls and three if you want to place a call to another phone on the same base. 50 to 75 years from now the cell phone collectors should be able to make their own base stations and route calls to other like minded people via their ever-on broadband network connections. Cheers, Lee. ________________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ________________________________________________________________________ From jbmcb at hotmail.com Thu Feb 12 18:35:27 2004 From: jbmcb at hotmail.com (Jason McBrien) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:25 2005 Subject: Classic Computing in LA References: <8B39793544120140B253EFE052E7ED0A0171DD21@nbulif015> Message-ID: I'm going to Los Angeles, CA for a few days next week on business. Are there any good spots to check out for classic computing / electronics gear? I'll probably be in the Pasadena area. Last time I went I was in Ceritos, and all the cool electronics surplus places I've heard of were closed. I also have the luxury of several equipment boxes that will be shipped along with me and returned on my way back :) From brianmahoney at look.ca Fri Feb 13 19:27:37 2004 From: brianmahoney at look.ca (Brian Mahoney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:25 2005 Subject: sol-20 References: <1076699051.2268.0.camel@linux.local> Message-ID: <001301c3f299$cd3c3920$0500a8c0@look.ca> This is what happens when you leave the group for a year! You miss out on all the in jokes. :) (Actually the pic I saw of one here : http://www.thebattles.net/sol20/sol.html looks pretty much the same as something I have which is called a Decider. Mine is an Apple II clone however. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Berger" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Friday, February 13, 2004 2:04 PM Subject: Re: sol-20 > On Fri, 2004-02-13 at 10:03, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > On Thu, 12 Feb 2004, nick wrote: > > > > > Hi was wondering if you know anyone that would be interested in two > > > working sol-20 one 16k and the other 64k with the helios 4 disk drive, > > > and two original moniters. > > > > Nobody here would be interested in that. The 4,000 messages you received > > after posting this are just people playing practical jokes on you. > > LOL, GOOD ONE!!! > > Paul > > From rcini at optonline.net Fri Feb 13 19:39:07 2004 From: rcini at optonline.net (Richard A. Cini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:25 2005 Subject: Classic Computing in LA In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000c01c3f29b$56d41c60$8201a8c0@bbrdhveies50vd> Jason: Make sure you post your successes/feedback when you get back. I'm going to Pasadena in mid-March. Rich Rich Cini Collector of classic computers Build Master for the Altair32 Emulation Project Web site: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ /************************************************************/ -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Jason McBrien Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2004 7:35 PM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Classic Computing in LA I'm going to Los Angeles, CA for a few days next week on business. Are there any good spots to check out for classic computing / electronics gear? I'll probably be in the Pasadena area. Last time I went I was in Ceritos, and all the cool electronics surplus places I've heard of were closed. I also have the luxury of several equipment boxes that will be shipped along with me and returned on my way back :) From Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com Fri Feb 13 19:48:48 2004 From: Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com (Davison, Lee) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:25 2005 Subject: HP find + VME Message-ID: <8B39793544120140B253EFE052E7ED0A0171DD22@nbulif015> Recently rescued .. HP 9000/300 - 68010 CPU, 1MB RAM + video (so it says) HP 9153A - 2 of, floppy + HD (probably 10MB) HP 35731A - 12" 512x400 monochrome monitor (some burn) HP 46021A - keyboard HP 46083A - HP-HIL rotary control HP 46084A - HP-HIL ID module One of the 9153A drives is alleged to contain the software to dribe a gas chromatograph (written in PASCAL) the other is alleged to contain the PASCAL compiller environment. Not tested as yet. Also .. MEM/340 - 4MB multibus II(?) memory card And bought recently .. Heurikon M220 - 5 of, VME, 68020/68881, 4MB DRAM, SCSI, 2 x SERIAL Matrox MMG640 - 2 of, VME, graphics, ?? I need info for the Matrox and Heurikon boards, and possibly ROM images, and I could use a VME backplane or two (or other VME cards such as ethernet) so the HP stuff and the multibus card are available for swap/sale. I can probably deliver/collect within the UK. Cheers Lee. ________________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ________________________________________________________________________ From sastevens at earthlink.net Fri Feb 13 20:00:51 2004 From: sastevens at earthlink.net (Scott Stevens) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:26 2005 Subject: cctalk Digest, Vol 6, Issue 29 In-Reply-To: <200402131800.i1DI047J005796@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040213205657.01cf2ba8@pop.earthlink.net> At 12:00 PM 2/13/2004 -0600, nickgraber@mchsi.com wrote: >Im looking into buying a 2430 tek scope but was wondering if you found out >what was wrong with your scope. the one I with to buy fails trigs ccd and >pa. I was just wonder if you would know what that ment for the >scope. and my >other question is that the scope says it is 50 ohm 5v and 1 Mohm 400vp is >that >switchable at the scope or do you have to get a fet probe to use the scope at >1Mohm 400vp ? I would stay away from the Tek 2400 series if at all possible. That generation of Tek 'scopes use custom Integrated circuits that are no longer produced and are virtually unobtainable. There are a dearth of replacement parts. You'll find you have to canibalize other 2400 series 'scopes to keep yours going. Particulary I would avoid any 2400 series scope that has problems. Unless you need parts out of it, of course. Or, of course, if you're a Tek Scope collector. I am old fashioned and wouldn't part with my Tek 465. The 7000 series mainframe 'scopes are incredibly inexpensive on the used market these days as well. I have one I may list on eBay soon. -------------- next part -------------- --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.581 / Virus Database: 368 - Release Date: 2/9/2004 From vcf at siconic.com Fri Feb 13 20:18:53 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:26 2005 Subject: sol-20 In-Reply-To: <001301c3f299$cd3c3920$0500a8c0@look.ca> Message-ID: On Fri, 13 Feb 2004, Brian Mahoney wrote: > This is what happens when you leave the group for a year! You miss out on > all the in jokes. :) > (Actually the pic I saw of one here : > http://www.thebattles.net/sol20/sol.html > looks pretty much the same as something I have which is called a Decider. > Mine is an Apple II clone however. Interesting. Pictures, please... -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From doc at mdrconsult.com Fri Feb 13 20:42:09 2004 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:26 2005 Subject: GRiD PalmPAD Docs? Message-ID: <62524CAE-5E97-11D8-8E2E-000A95A6B97A@mdrconsult.com> Does anyone have them, or have any information on where to get a user's manual? Doc From brianmahoney at look.ca Fri Feb 13 21:31:40 2004 From: brianmahoney at look.ca (Brian Mahoney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:26 2005 Subject: sol-20 References: Message-ID: <000e01c3f2ab$21acad80$0500a8c0@look.ca> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vintage Computer Festival" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Friday, February 13, 2004 9:18 PM Subject: Re: sol-20 > On Fri, 13 Feb 2004, Brian Mahoney wrote: > > > This is what happens when you leave the group for a year! You miss out on > > all the in jokes. :) > > (Actually the pic I saw of one here : > > http://www.thebattles.net/sol20/sol.html > > looks pretty much the same as something I have which is called a Decider. > > Mine is an Apple II clone however. > > Interesting. Pictures, please... > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage mputers ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] Not a great pic though. http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Horizon/9107/Decider2.JPG From vcf at siconic.com Fri Feb 13 21:38:21 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:26 2005 Subject: sol-20 In-Reply-To: <000e01c3f2ab$21acad80$0500a8c0@look.ca> Message-ID: On Fri, 13 Feb 2004, Brian Mahoney wrote: > Not a great pic though. > > http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Horizon/9107/Decider2.JPG Neat. It does look like a Sol-20. I would almost think someone gutted a Sol-20 and put an Apple ][ motherboard inside but the edges of the side panels are squared whereas the Sol-20 side panel edges are rounded. And the keyboard is different. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From dvcorbin at optonline.net Fri Feb 13 22:52:23 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:26 2005 Subject: [OT] Speaking of explosion... In-Reply-To: <1076704828.6263.16.camel@morden.cc.vt.edu> Message-ID: >>> It left me wondering about advertant releases of smoke. See various products from Dallas SemiConductor. While they do not advertise "smoke release", there are quite a few products with Self Destruct. From ernestls at attbi.com Fri Feb 13 23:15:52 2004 From: ernestls at attbi.com (Ernest) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:26 2005 Subject: sol-20 (apple II clones) In-Reply-To: <000e01c3f2ab$21acad80$0500a8c0@look.ca> References: <000e01c3f2ab$21acad80$0500a8c0@look.ca> Message-ID: <200402132115.52302.ernestls@attbi.com> On Friday 13 February 2004 19:31, Brian Mahoney wrote: > Not a great pic though. > > http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Horizon/9107/Decider2.JPG So are Apple II clones what you primarily collect? Your Decider and Orange+ are very cool clones. I've heard of the Decider but I've never seen one until now. I have a couple of different ads for the the Orange+ from Byte magazine -one looks like your Orange+ and the other has a case that looks more like the original Apple II but with a larger label. Do you have any other unusual clones? I have a few myself. Ernest From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat Feb 14 00:20:01 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:26 2005 Subject: sol-20 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040213221855.W38991@newshell.lmi.net> On Fri, 13 Feb 2004, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > Neat. It does look like a Sol-20. I would almost think someone gutted a > Sol-20 and put an Apple ][ motherboard inside but the edges of the side > panels are squared whereas the Sol-20 side panel edges are rounded. And > the keyboard is different. That's been done, too. But the keyboard was an RCA membrane keyboard connected with a short cable. From dundas at caltech.edu Sat Feb 14 00:31:51 2004 From: dundas at caltech.edu (dundas@caltech.edu) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:26 2005 Subject: Classic Computing in LA Message-ID: <9414519877dundas@caltech.edu> Well I work at Caltech (Pasadena) and live in a city immediately adjacent and I'm not aware of any good "classic computing" spots. Wish I did. My favorite electronics spots are Dow (now Mavac) and C&H, both on Colorado Blvd. Tim Shoppa turned me on to Empire Electronics in Old Town Pasadena. That's about it. Good luck, John > I'm going to Los Angeles, CA for a few days next week on business. Are there > any good spots to check out for classic computing / electronics gear? I'll > probably be in the Pasadena area. Last time I went I was in Ceritos, and all > the cool electronics surplus places I've heard of were closed. I also have > the luxury of several equipment boxes that will be shipped along with me and > returned on my way back :) > > > From msg at waste.org Fri Feb 13 11:15:47 2004 From: msg at waste.org (Infra) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:26 2005 Subject: Need drivers for Bernoulli PC2/PC2B interface In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I am not sure why my posts aren't getting through but I posted a notice some time ago that I had put up the drivers for the PC2 series at ftp://ftp.cybertheque.org/pub/iomega. Also what point is there in posting the availability of materials to the 'tech' list when it is delayed so much that by the time one rsponds they ar gone? Years ago I stopped reading the original list since it got so verbose that one needed AI filtering to digest content; I am planning on setting up an NNTP server hosting a hierarchy of newsgroups to cover paleoinformatic technology topics including one newsgroup specifically restricted to notifications of equipment and software availability. I will post it's startup to the 'tech' list when it occurs. Michael Grigoni Cybertheque Museum From william.gallas at ngc.com Fri Feb 13 17:47:38 2004 From: william.gallas at ngc.com (william.gallas@ngc.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:26 2005 Subject: finds from TRW Swapmeet (AKA Northrup Grumman swap meet) today Message-ID: Hi- I'm trying to get in touch with Jim W. Stephens. Any help you could give me on how to contact him would be appreciated. Thanks very much. From sean at macassist.com.au Sat Feb 14 00:06:03 2004 From: sean at macassist.com.au (Sean McNamara) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:26 2005 Subject: Apple II workstation Card Message-ID: Hi there, Just saw your post from December about the software for the Apple II Workstation Card. I was just sent the software for this - a Shrinkit archive containing a 800k (3.5") disk image - would you like it? Regards Sean ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Sean McNamara mailto:sean@macassist.com.au MacAssist Ph: (02) 8920 0866 Authorised Apple Solutions Reseller Fax: (02) 8920 0877 ABN 95 758 412 281 Mobile: 0414 270 132 From suzyqfw at msn.com Fri Feb 13 13:29:07 2004 From: suzyqfw at msn.com (Linda Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:26 2005 Subject: Quick Basic (Bob Mason): Zipping it Message-ID: I ran accross a posting and your email address while doing a search for Quick Basic 4.5 I have been looking for some replacement disk. I am not a professional programmer, but I do have some personal programs that I wrote during the time that I took programming in collage. I purchased Quick Basic 4.5 so I could work on programs at home and not at the collage computer lab. The computer that I used at that time is long gone. And not I find the need to upgrade a program. I have the all the source code, but the disk that I have are 5.25 and neither of my computers have that size disk. How much are you selling Quick Basic 4.5 for? Please email suzyqfw@msn.com ThanksGet more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Sat Feb 14 04:48:12 2004 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:26 2005 Subject: cctalk Digest, Vol 6, Issue 29 In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20040213205657.01cf2ba8@pop.earthlink.net> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20040213205657.01cf2ba8@pop.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <913690804c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> In message <5.1.0.14.2.20040213205657.01cf2ba8@pop.earthlink.net> Scott Stevens wrote: > I am old fashioned and wouldn't part with my Tek 465. 465s aren't bad, but I wouldn't part with my Tek 466. I still need some more 1x/10x switchable probes for it, though :-/ Later. -- Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, philpem@dsl.pipex.com | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice, http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI ... When I get a better mouse trap built, mice will be an endangered species. From arcarlini at iee.org Sat Feb 14 05:18:24 2004 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:26 2005 Subject: Hobbyist VMS (was: Got a DEC 2000 Alpha server, need help) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <002101c3f2ec$43224970$5b01a8c0@athlon> Seen on comp.os.vms: Currently on www.encompassus.org when one follows the links for "join today" for an associate member, one comes to the form at https://secure2.sba.com/encompass/memberApp/associate.cfm This form requires it's first field "Associate ID". As a newly joining member he doesn't have an associate ID yet. The form for "renew online" (https:////secure2.sba.com/encompass/memberApp/associate_renew.cfm) has the "Associate ID" optional. Perhaps this explains the problems some people have had? Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From brad at heeltoe.com Sat Feb 14 08:14:33 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:26 2005 Subject: OCR of 644 TIFF files? Message-ID: <200402141414.i1EEEXh22797@mwave.heeltoe.com> Hi, If you had, say, 644 TIFF files, containing black and white scanned text from a patent application. And say, you wanted to turn that back into a text file, what would you do? The images contain code listings. Is a commercial OCR program the way to go? Any suggestions? Is there any freely-available OCR which would be up to the task? (it's the Symbolics 3600 patent) If it was 64 pages I'd type it in. But 644... :-) -brad From at258 at osfn.org Sat Feb 14 09:16:25 2004 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:26 2005 Subject: Xerox Monitor In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Yes, the 820 is a little fellow. The 860 is CP/M based, but getting a system disk is very difficult. I don't think Don Maslin has one. the 860 is about 30 inches high with 2 8inch drives. On Thu, 12 Feb 2004, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Thu, 12 Feb 2004, Merle K. Peirce wrote: > > > The 860 is a CP/M machine. Big sucker. > > Are you sure about this? That would be news to me. You aren't thinking > of the 820, are you? > > -- M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From tony.eros at machm.org Sat Feb 14 09:20:00 2004 From: tony.eros at machm.org (Tony Eros) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:26 2005 Subject: Xerox Monitor In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200402141522.KAA81100@smtp.9netave.com> I know the 820 ran CP/M, but I don't think the 860 did. The 860 was mostly used as a dedicated word processing system. We sold a lot of them to law offices; though IIRC there was some sort of legal billing app that ran on it as well. -- Tony -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Merle K. Peirce Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2004 10:16 AM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: Xerox Monitor Yes, the 820 is a little fellow. The 860 is CP/M based, but getting a system disk is very difficult. I don't think Don Maslin has one. the 860 is about 30 inches high with 2 8inch drives. On Thu, 12 Feb 2004, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Thu, 12 Feb 2004, Merle K. Peirce wrote: > > > The 860 is a CP/M machine. Big sucker. > > Are you sure about this? That would be news to me. You aren't thinking > of the 820, are you? > > -- M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From coredump at gifford.co.uk Sat Feb 14 09:55:44 2004 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:26 2005 Subject: cctalk Digest, Vol 6, Issue 29 In-Reply-To: <913690804c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20040213205657.01cf2ba8@pop.earthlink.net> <913690804c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> Message-ID: <402E4500.5030208@gifford.co.uk> Philip Pemberton wrote: > 465s aren't bad, but I wouldn't part with my Tek 466. I still need some more > 1x/10x switchable probes for it, though :-/ I have a Tek 564B, the analog storage-tube model. -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From brianmahoney at look.ca Sat Feb 14 10:11:01 2004 From: brianmahoney at look.ca (Brian Mahoney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:26 2005 Subject: OCR of 644 TIFF files? References: <200402141414.i1EEEXh22797@mwave.heeltoe.com> Message-ID: <000d01c3f315$35bdcd80$0500a8c0@look.ca> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brad Parker" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2004 9:14 AM Subject: OCR of 644 TIFF files? > > Hi, > > If you had, say, 644 TIFF files, containing black and white scanned text > from a patent application. And say, you wanted to turn that back into a > text file, what would you do? The images contain code listings. > > Is a commercial OCR program the way to go? Any suggestions? Is there > any freely-available OCR which would be up to the task? > > (it's the Symbolics 3600 patent) > > If it was 64 pages I'd type it in. But 644... :-) > > -brad Used to be that you could download a trial version of OmniPage Pro and use it about 10 times or so, maybe more. If you keep one session open run through as much as you can, maybe you could do the whole thing in one or several times. It's the best I have ever used for OCR, you still have to correct it a bit but there are settings you can adjust to help it get things right. Not sure if you can still download it but it's worth a try. From brianmahoney at look.ca Sat Feb 14 10:21:30 2004 From: brianmahoney at look.ca (Brian Mahoney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:26 2005 Subject: sol-20 (apple II clones) References: <000e01c3f2ab$21acad80$0500a8c0@look.ca> <200402132115.52302.ernestls@attbi.com> Message-ID: <001d01c3f316$ace31860$0500a8c0@look.ca> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ernest" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2004 12:15 AM Subject: Re: sol-20 (apple II clones) > On Friday 13 February 2004 19:31, Brian Mahoney wrote: > > > Not a great pic though. > > > > http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Horizon/9107/Decider2.JPG > > So are Apple II clones what you primarily collect? Your Decider and Orange+ > are very cool clones. I've heard of the Decider but I've never seen one until > now. I have a couple of different ads for the the Orange+ from Byte magazine > -one looks like your Orange+ and the other has a case that looks more like > the original Apple II but with a larger label. Do you have any other unusual > clones? I have a few myself. > > Ernest Other than a couple of Franklins, a Laser 128 the two mentioned above, most of my Apples are just Apples. I've recently got into some Macs but due to space limitations, I have pretty well stopped collecting. I have a few boxes of mags with ads for most of what I have and someday I will match them with the pics on my new site. I guess the bulk of my collection is Hyperions. I have 7 or 8 plus a couple of storage towers (that's what I call them) and endless amounts of software and manuals. Probably my favorites are the quirky tiny Tandy things plus a wonderful Osborne Executive, several Compaq portables and a Panasonic Executive Partner. I'm in the process of taking each of these out and testing them to make sure the humidity of the basement hasn't ruined anything. So far so good. If I could figure out a way of keeping power supplies linked to computers, I would have more time to play! If I find any neat Apple clones, I will post here. I'll get the Decider out too and see if it still cranks. It has both chips onboard, the Zilog ? and the Motorola. Wish I had more info on it. B.M. From allain at panix.com Sat Feb 14 11:22:41 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:26 2005 Subject: OCR of 644 TIFF files? References: <200402141414.i1EEEXh22797@mwave.heeltoe.com> Message-ID: <001d01c3f31f$27192180$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > If it was 64 pages I'd type it in. But 644... :-) While I'm sure you'll get many good answers, what I use is from the CorelDraw 8 CD, 1998. Best $40 I ever spent. Not only faster than typing, but a much less hectic experience, you won't burn yourself out doing it. John A. From jplist at kiwigeek.com Sat Feb 14 11:29:00 2004 From: jplist at kiwigeek.com (JP Hindin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:26 2005 Subject: Xerox Monitor In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 14 Feb 2004, Merle K. Peirce wrote: > Yes, the 820 is a little fellow. The 860 is CP/M based, but getting a > system disk is very difficult. I don't think Don Maslin has one. the 860 > is about 30 inches high with 2 8inch drives. I have an 860 IPS and all the system software plus manuals. Of course, I've never actually *turned it on*. But it SHOULD work. :) - JP From toresbe at ifi.uio.no Sat Feb 14 12:27:29 2004 From: toresbe at ifi.uio.no (Tore S Bekkedal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:26 2005 Subject: Classic Computing in LA Message-ID: <001001c3f328$34ed1560$d7bc9fc3@ra3> >Make sure you post your successes/feedback when you get back. I'm going to >Pasadena in mid-March. Yeah, I'd love to see that too, I might be going there some time in the future. From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Sat Feb 14 14:11:12 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:26 2005 Subject: OT: another reason to not like microsloth - caution, may contain rant. Message-ID: In other news I've just managed to delete my entire classiccmp folder from Outlook, which is nice. All 600-odd messages of stuff. I installed Office 2003 'cos I'm unofficial IT support for Mrs Witchy's school, and the edu version allows 3 home installs. Thing is, because the new Outlook is obviously a complete rewrite of the previous version the default behaviour of folder selecting has changed, only they don't tell you that. In Outlook 2000 when you selected a folder the first message was automatically selected, so if it was one you weren't interested in you could just hit delete and it would be gone, or you could up'n'down arrow to select messages. (Yes, I shift-delete so I don't have to keep emptying 'deleted items'). You could TAB and CTRL-TAB round the windows perfectly happily and whichever folder you tabbed or arrowed onto would be displayed. In Outlook 2003 you can't just TAB round the windows any more. Oh no. You have to TAB and space-to-select just like a web browser. If you select a folder then you've *just selected the folder*, so deleting will delete the folder and it's contents with no warning other than 'are you sure you want to delete the selected item'. Bastards. And before anyone says 'backup' yes I probably should. But since I've had the same outlook file with pretty much no disasters since 1996 why should I start now. More to the point, why should the behaviour of Outlook change with no warning.... And another thing - I have a rule set that all messages from classiccmp go into said folder, and since the deletion I've recreated the folder amidst much swearing. A message has just arrived and a box has popped up saying 'can't move to the classiccmp folder' when it quite clearly can 'cos the fucking folder is there! Gah! -- Adrian/Witchy Owner & Webmaster, Binary Dinosaurs www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From netsurfer_x1 at fastmailbox.net Sat Feb 14 14:40:24 2004 From: netsurfer_x1 at fastmailbox.net (David Vohs) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:26 2005 Subject: [OT] Magic smoke. (Was: Speaking of explosion...) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1076791224.27556.181046991@webmail.messagingengine.com> Good advice Pat! I think I'll keep an eye out for these dirty little bastards! Also, to add on to what you were saying, whatever you do, *don't* let the magic smoke out of your classic computer(s). I know age does have a tendency to cause "leaks" that can let said smoke out. On Fri, 13 Feb 2004 12:20:55 -0800, "Patrick Rigney" said: > Sorry everyone, it's Friday, and my mind isn't on focused on work at all. > > I thought I'd share something I found humorous. I just got a recall > notice > and replacement battery for my Kyocera phone. In the letter that > accompanied the new battery, written by a Kyocera attorney, it was said > that > there was little risk of a widespread problem, and only a few people had > been affected by the (I quote) "rapid disassembly" of the device, and of > those, only one person had received second degree burns, and property > damage > in other cases was minor. > > "Rapid disassembly" ??? As if angry little gnomes in the battery wake up > and start taking it apart and throwing pieces around (flaming pieces, I'd > assume, given that burns and property damage resulted)? I assume he > meant > it can *explode*, or is that a "forceful rapid disassembly" (and > therefore > something entirely different). > > Anyway, whatever you do, don't let those gnomes into your classic > computers. > I can only assume those of you with caps that have given in to rapid > disassembly (or perhaps even forceful rapid disassembly, or worse, sudden > intense warming accompanied by forceful rapid disassembly and ensuing > off-gassing of combustion by-products) let those gnomes get in there. > > Have a great weekend, all... --Patrick :o) > -- David Vohs netsurfer_x1@fastmailbox.net -- http://www.fastmail.fm - I mean, what is it about a decent email service? From dvcorbin at optonline.net Sat Feb 14 14:43:41 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:26 2005 Subject: another reason to not like microsloth - caution, may contain rant. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >>> All 600-odd messages of stuff. I could forward you the last 4000 messages or so...... Select All...Forward..... >>>> You have to TAB and space-to-select... Actually one of the main "features" of Office 2003 is the standardization of actions that previously varied. While initially annoying, it is actually much nicer to have the same keep sequence behave the same way in more application. >>>And before anyone says.... Have to say it...It is because of unexpected occurrences like this. >>>>'can't move to the classiccmp folder' Actually THAT folder is no longer there. What you have is a NEW folder that just happens to have the same NAME. This is quite deliberate so if you change the name of a folder, the rule continues to work (i.e. messages still go into that folder). David. From jpl15 at panix.com Sat Feb 14 15:00:27 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:26 2005 Subject: OT: another reason to not like microsloth - caution, may contain rant. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sat, 14 Feb 2004, Witchy wrote: > In other news I've just managed to delete my entire classiccmp folder from > Outlook, which is nice. All 600-odd messages of stuff. [sad-but-true screed snipped] After having used BillWare since Win3.x, and having installed and maintained three small office-type servers, and dozens of BillWare-infected PCs - I am now in the laborious process of putting some flavor of *ix on every modern computer I own or have responsibility for. The only exceptions will those few programs which are Bill-centric *and* have no *ix analogue, *and* which I cannot do without... luckily this class of 'badly concieved' software is growing ever more in the minority. Free BSD - Mandrake - Debian - Fedora - I will have nothing more to do with anything out of Redmond insofar as is possible, as soon as possible. It's a Perversion of the Universe that the Richest Geek in America is *not* Linus Torvalds.... IMnotSHO... Note that the Laptop from which I type this has not undergone the DeBillification Process yet - because it is soon to be replaced with more modern iron, and *that* machine will be cleansed first, then filled with *ixish Stuff... And I am sorry for your loss, Witchy - may you soon be free of EgoSoft and all it's allotropes... Cheerz John From rdd at rddavis.org Sat Feb 14 15:14:12 2004 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:26 2005 Subject: OT: another reason to not like microsloth - caution, may contain rant. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040214205946.GB1789@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Witchy, from writings of Sat, Feb 14, 2004 at 08:11:12PM -0000: > In other news I've just managed to delete my entire classiccmp folder from > Outlook, which is nice. All 600-odd messages of stuff. > > I installed Office 2003 'cos I'm unofficial IT support for Mrs Witchy's > school, and the edu version allows 3 home installs. Thing is, because the > new Outlook is obviously a complete rewrite of the previous version the > default behaviour of folder selecting has changed, only they don't tell you > that. > > In Outlook 2000 when you selected a folder the first message was Speaking of Micro$oft problems and 2000, anyone have any advice on cloning all of the OS files on a Windoze 2000 Pro PeeCee? I found one (very, very, cheap) well over a year ago at a thrift shop, to use for some audio utilities that I can't use from UNIX or MacOS. The problem is, I don't have a Windoze 2000 Pro CD, and if the system crashes, it's bye bye OS. So, I need some sort of system backup. Do I just need to unhide hidden files, then copy everything to a spare hard disk, or is the process more involved than that? I realize that one can't install Windoze-95 from a CD-ROM without some sort of software key (unless one just gets the number from the registry of some other computer runing Windoze, then enters that number, and then windoze will install---that was an easy one to figure out), so I'm guessing that there may be some hidden tricks that one needs to be aware of with copying Windoze 2000. > Bastards. That word, for them, is not very harsh, and still makes them sound too nice. > Gah! That should be the official Micro$oft sound. :-) Does something called Norton Utilities still exist for Microsoft products? I remember that one could use it to undelete files from PC-DOS systems. If you haven't already overwritten that file by now, perhaps it's worth a try. -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From herbjohnson at comcast.net Sat Feb 14 13:31:01 2004 From: herbjohnson at comcast.net (Herb Johnson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:26 2005 Subject: PerSci manual wanted (classiccomp) Message-ID: <402E7775.70409@comcast.net> Saw your msg below while searching the Web about Persci drives. I have a 277 manual, courtesty of Cromemco, in my inventory. I normally sell copies by the page but I would trade for copies of some of your manuals. Confirm you are still interested and we can work the details. I have the Persci 277, 299, (8-inch) manuals; what is the 207 and 272? Herb Johnson Your msg, late in 2003: My newly-acquired Cromemco System 3 came with lots of disks, spare boards, manuals, licences, and a terminal, but only one dual PerSci S299 floppy drive, which needs some attention (it seeks but returns read errors). Anyone got a manual I can download, borrow or trade? I have two sets of manuals (2 of each of the "Product Specification" and "Logic and Schematic Diagram") for the 270/272/277 drives, several spare ADM-5 manuals, and some spare Cromemco FDC manuals. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York -- Herbert R. Johnson voice 609-771-1503, New Jersey USA link to my web site mirror of web site email address: hjohnson AAT njcc DOTT com (if mail bounces, try herbjohnson ATT comcast DOTT net) good used Mac, SGI, 8-inch floppy drives S-100 IMSAI Altair computers, , docs, by "Dr. S-100" From dvcorbin at optonline.net Sat Feb 14 15:47:21 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:26 2005 Subject: OT: another reason to not like microsloth - caution, may contain rant. In-Reply-To: <20040214205946.GB1789@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: >> or is the process more involved than that? That will basically to it, but there are some caveats. Rather than going into all the details, lets just say it is much easier to use an image backup program (such as Norton Ghost) which will make a nice CD/DVD/Harddrive image of you current machine state. >>If you haven't already overwritten that file by now, perhaps it's worth a try. Mail messages are all stored in one PST file (typically), what he did was delete information from within the file. It was not an operation at the file system level. please contact me off list if you have additional questions. David V. Corbin Dynamic Concepts Development Corp. david@dynamicconcepts.us From rmeenaks at olf.com Sat Feb 14 16:00:19 2004 From: rmeenaks at olf.com (Ram Meenakshisundaram) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:26 2005 Subject: OCR of 644 TIFF files? In-Reply-To: <200402141414.i1EEEXh22797@mwave.heeltoe.com> Message-ID: <0HT300EUMH3FB9@mta9.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> If you have Microshaft XP, it has Omnipage (a limited version of) built-in... Ram -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Brad Parker Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2004 9:15 AM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: OCR of 644 TIFF files? Hi, If you had, say, 644 TIFF files, containing black and white scanned text from a patent application. And say, you wanted to turn that back into a text file, what would you do? The images contain code listings. Is a commercial OCR program the way to go? Any suggestions? Is there any freely-available OCR which would be up to the task? (it's the Symbolics 3600 patent) If it was 64 pages I'd type it in. But 644... :-) -brad From rmeenaks at olf.com Sat Feb 14 16:00:57 2004 From: rmeenaks at olf.com (Ram Meenakshisundaram) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:26 2005 Subject: OCR of 644 TIFF files? In-Reply-To: <200402141414.i1EEEXh22797@mwave.heeltoe.com> Message-ID: <0HT300H3CH5KF1@mta3.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Ooops, I goofed. Its part of Microsoft office 2003, sorry... Ram -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Brad Parker Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2004 9:15 AM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: OCR of 644 TIFF files? Hi, If you had, say, 644 TIFF files, containing black and white scanned text from a patent application. And say, you wanted to turn that back into a text file, what would you do? The images contain code listings. Is a commercial OCR program the way to go? Any suggestions? Is there any freely-available OCR which would be up to the task? (it's the Symbolics 3600 patent) If it was 64 pages I'd type it in. But 644... :-) -brad From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sat Feb 14 18:23:35 2004 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:26 2005 Subject: GoldenWest tape drive followup In-Reply-To: References: <5.2.0.9.0.20040213090932.03681810@mail.ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20040214162119.025faec0@pop-server.socal.rr.com> Did anybody ever follow up on those tape drives I posted to the list about at GoldenWest Surplus? From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Feb 14 18:57:56 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:26 2005 Subject: Orlando Hamfest finds Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040214195756.008a5e00@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Two days down and one to go. Here's the haul so far" HP 9845B (appears to be loaded) HP 1000 computer (yes, another one!) HP 1351 Graphics Generator (vector graphics for the HP 1000!) HP 3468 DMM with HP-IL interface Three large boxs of early data books Original early IBM PC. Appears to be untampered with. Some NEC APC III manuals. Passed up several more boxfuls of these. Anybody need them? NuBus prototypiong board made by Apple. This one has two ROMs and a 68000 installed at the factory. Anybody know what the story is on that? P133 notebook computer with Network Stumbler installed (this should be fun!) A like new Logical Devices XPro EPROM programmer with the PLCC plugins. An IR black body source with controller Drum roll please. Taa Da! National Semiconductor Pacer SBC Passed up a Sparc notebook computer but got a lead on some Apple Lisa parts. Joe From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Sat Feb 14 18:57:57 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:26 2005 Subject: HP find + VME In-Reply-To: <8B39793544120140B253EFE052E7ED0A0171DD22@nbulif015> References: <8B39793544120140B253EFE052E7ED0A0171DD22@nbulif015> Message-ID: <200402150059.TAA23664@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > Heurikon M220 - 5 of, VME, 68020/68881, 4MB DRAM, SCSI, 2 x SERIAL > I need info for the Matrox and Heurikon boards, I don't know whether it's the same one, but I know someone who once worked with some Heurikon VME boards. I'll try to find out if they were the same things, and if so, whether any doc is available.... /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Sat Feb 14 19:05:38 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:26 2005 Subject: Orlando Hamfest finds In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040214195756.008a5e00@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20040214195756.008a5e00@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <200402150111.UAA23744@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > Two days down and one to go. Here's the haul so far" [...] > A like new Logical Devices XPro EPROM programmer with the PLCC plugins. You have any plans for it? :) > Passed up a Sparc notebook computer ...what?? I'm not sure whether it's strictly on topic here, but I'd *cheerfully* take that off your hands! /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Sat Feb 14 19:21:19 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:27 2005 Subject: OT: another reason to not like microsloth - caution, may contain rant. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of David V. Corbin > Sent: 14 February 2004 21:47 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: RE: OT: another reason to not like microsloth - > caution, may contain rant. > > Mail messages are all stored in one PST file (typically), > what he did was delete information from within the file. It > was not an operation at the file system level. Sadly, for my sins I'm an MCSE - sorry, it wasn't by choice - so I know what I did toasted the folder. Thanks to the list members who've offered backups of the messages though :D Cheers w From cfandt at netsync.net Sat Feb 14 19:47:55 2004 From: cfandt at netsync.net (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:27 2005 Subject: **********Re: Straight 8 -- front panel repair In-Reply-To: <001101c3f255$babd0e80$4291a8c0@aoldsl.net> References: Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.2.20040214204213.023f17b0@pop3.norton.antivirus> Ed, If the panel is indeed a nice one it would be a good candidate to copy to make reproductions using one of the places I listed in a previous message. I believe all they need is a good sample from which to shoot a master. Other -8 owners could then order repros as they are needed. All to make the existing units better if there's a panel problem. -Chris F. NNNN Upon the date 10:20 AM 2/13/04 -0700, Ed Sharpe said something like: >if ya all are patient folk I know I have an extra frontpanel for a straight >8 in one of our buildings that could be for trade. as I recall it is nice. > >Thanks! > >Ed Sharpe Archivist for SMECC > >See the Southwest Museum of Engineering, Communications and Computation >online at: >http://www.smecc.org --snip-- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.antiquewireless.org/ From rcini at optonline.net Sat Feb 14 19:47:33 2004 From: rcini at optonline.net (rcini@optonline.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:27 2005 Subject: Classic Computing in LA Message-ID: <8fb7a08f8c48.8f8c488fb7a0@optonline.net> John: My company's office is on South Lake at the corner of Del Mar. I don't have a map handy but I think that it's a softball's throw from CalTech. Where in Old Town is Empire Electronics? Usually I walk to Old Town from my hotel to kill some time. Rich ----- Original Message ----- From: dundas@caltech.edu Date: Saturday, February 14, 2004 1:31 am Subject: Re: Classic Computing in LA > Well I work at Caltech (Pasadena) and live in a city immediately > adjacent and > I'm not aware of any good "classic computing" spots. Wish I did. > > My favorite electronics spots are Dow (now Mavac) and C&H, both on > Colorado > Blvd. Tim Shoppa turned me on to Empire Electronics in Old Town > Pasadena. > That's about it. > > Good luck, > > John > > > I'm going to Los Angeles, CA for a few days next week on > business. Are there > > any good spots to check out for classic computing / electronics > gear? I'll > > probably be in the Pasadena area. Last time I went I was in > Ceritos, and all > > the cool electronics surplus places I've heard of were closed. I > also have > > the luxury of several equipment boxes that will be shipped along > with me and > > returned on my way back :) > > > > > > > > > > > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Feb 14 20:01:16 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:27 2005 Subject: Orlando Hamfest finds In-Reply-To: <200402150111.UAA23744@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> References: <3.0.6.32.20040214195756.008a5e00@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20040214195756.008a5e00@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040214210116.00841320@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 08:05 PM 2/14/04 -0500, you wrote: >> Two days down and one to go. Here's the haul so far" >[...] >> A like new Logical Devices XPro EPROM programmer with the PLCC plugins. > >You have any plans for it? :) Not yet! > >> Passed up a Sparc notebook computer > >...what?? I'm not sure whether it's strictly on topic here, but I'd >*cheerfully* take that off your hands! "Passed up" as in I didn't buy it. Too many neat toys and too little money. Someone else did buy it so it's gone now. Joe > >/~\ The ASCII der Mouse >\ / Ribbon Campaign > X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca >/ \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B > From aek at spies.com Sat Feb 14 20:36:08 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:27 2005 Subject: **********Re: Straight 8 -- front panel repair Message-ID: <200402150236.i1F2a8I5023771@spies.com> > I believe all they need is a good sample from which to shoot a master. -- I have a high resolution scan of the panel If someone were to do repros, I'd suggest using polycarb instead of glass The good thing is, unlike later machines, it is just a rectangle w/o cutouts From dvcorbin at optonline.net Sat Feb 14 21:10:13 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:27 2005 Subject: OT: another reason to not like microsloth - caution, may contain rant. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >>Sadly, for my sins I'm an MCSE... Witchy My comments were direct more towards R.D. Davis's comments on being able to recover files, than to your original post. David. -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Witchy Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2004 8:21 PM To: 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts' Subject: RE: OT: another reason to not like microsloth - caution,may contain rant. > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of David V. Corbin > Sent: 14 February 2004 21:47 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: RE: OT: another reason to not like microsloth - > caution, may contain rant. > > Mail messages are all stored in one PST file (typically), > what he did was delete information from within the file. It > was not an operation at the file system level. Sadly, for my sins I'm an MCSE - sorry, it wasn't by choice - so I know what I did toasted the folder. Thanks to the list members who've offered backups of the messages though :D Cheers w From vcf at siconic.com Sat Feb 14 21:35:23 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:27 2005 Subject: **********Re: Straight 8 -- front panel repair In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.2.20040214204213.023f17b0@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: On Sat, 14 Feb 2004, Christian Fandt wrote: > If the panel is indeed a nice one it would be a good candidate to copy to > make reproductions using one of the places I listed in a previous > message. I believe all they need is a good sample from which to shoot a > master. Other -8 owners could then order repros as they are needed. All to > make the existing units better if there's a panel problem. I've got a high resolution scan of the PDP-8 front panel that I used for the replica I built. It's been touched-up and so is a very good sample. I can provide it to anyone that wants it. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From esharpe at uswest.net Sat Feb 14 23:16:04 2004 From: esharpe at uswest.net (ed sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:27 2005 Subject: **********Re: Straight 8 -- front panel repair References: <200402150236.i1F2a8I5023771@spies.com> Message-ID: <004301c3f382$cfad1230$976a6e44@SONYDIGITALED> Good Point Al, and it would not break as easy as the glass one. The unit we have is the complete front panel assembly with switches cable etc etc etc etc it may have a small corner crack in the glass thinking back on it... has been a while since we have had a visual on it. ed sharpe archivist for smecc ----- Original Message ----- From: "Al Kossow" To: Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2004 7:36 PM Subject: Re: **********Re: Straight 8 -- front panel repair > > > I believe all they need is a good sample from which to shoot a > master. > > -- > > I have a high resolution scan of the panel > > If someone were to do repros, I'd suggest using polycarb instead of glass > The good thing is, unlike later machines, it is just a rectangle w/o cutouts > > > From esharpe at uswest.net Sun Feb 15 00:07:26 2004 From: esharpe at uswest.net (ed sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:27 2005 Subject: Interesting NY Times story... References: <8B39793544120140B253EFE052E7ED0A0171DD21@nbulif015> Message-ID: <008701c3f389$fc2db970$976a6e44@SONYDIGITALED> now there is a unique collecting tangent to go off on! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Davison, Lee" To: "'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'" Sent: Friday, February 13, 2004 5:20 PM Subject: RE: Interesting NY Times story... > > Stuff today is so inaccessible from a retroist point of view. > > The cellular networks 50-75 years from now probably won't support > > what we use today, and unless cellular towers will be cheap, > > abundant, and easy to store in our garage, we probably won't be > > setting up our own networks to see how far we can call for fun. > > Setting up a celular base station while not trivial is not impossible. > The hardest part is the RF Tx and Rx sections, of which you need at > least two if you want to place calls and three if you want to place a > call to another phone on the same base. 50 to 75 years from now the > cell phone collectors should be able to make their own base stations > and route calls to other like minded people via their ever-on > broadband network connections. > > Cheers, > Lee. > > ________________________________________________________________________ > This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The > service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive > anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: > http://www.star.net.uk > ________________________________________________________________________ > > From tomj at wps.com Sun Feb 15 00:29:44 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:27 2005 Subject: Classic Computing in LA In-Reply-To: <9414519877dundas@caltech.edu> References: <9414519877dundas@caltech.edu> Message-ID: <1076825780.2040.24.camel@fiche> On Fri, 2004-02-13 at 22:31, dundas@caltech.edu wrote: > Well I work at Caltech (Pasadena) and live in a city immediately adjacent and > I'm not aware of any good "classic computing" spots. Wish I did. > > My favorite electronics spots are Dow (now Mavac) and C&H, both on Colorado > Blvd. Tim Shoppa turned me on to Empire Electronics in Old Town Pasadena. > Apex Electronics (or something like that) on San Fernando Rd in Sun Valley. Mostly electronics (old!) and parts and pieces. Nothing remotely computing that isn't beige, and damn little of that. > That's about it. > > Good luck, > > John > > > I'm going to Los Angeles, CA for a few days next week on business. Are there > > any good spots to check out for classic computing / electronics gear? I'll > > probably be in the Pasadena area. Last time I went I was in Ceritos, and all > > the cool electronics surplus places I've heard of were closed. I also have > > the luxury of several equipment boxes that will be shipped along with me and > > returned on my way back :) > > > > > > > > > > From esharpe at uswest.net Sun Feb 15 01:43:53 2004 From: esharpe at uswest.net (ed sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:27 2005 Subject: Classic Computing in LA References: <9414519877dundas@caltech.edu> <1076825780.2040.24.camel@fiche> Message-ID: <00a401c3f397$75a3b4a0$976a6e44@SONYDIGITALED> hmmm... I wonder if the 'godfathers' stash is still intact.... ed ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Jennings" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only" Cc: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2004 11:16 PM Subject: Re: Classic Computing in LA > On Fri, 2004-02-13 at 22:31, dundas@caltech.edu wrote: > > Well I work at Caltech (Pasadena) and live in a city immediately adjacent and > > I'm not aware of any good "classic computing" spots. Wish I did. > > > > My favorite electronics spots are Dow (now Mavac) and C&H, both on Colorado > > Blvd. Tim Shoppa turned me on to Empire Electronics in Old Town Pasadena. > > > > Apex Electronics (or something like that) on San Fernando Rd in Sun > Valley. Mostly electronics (old!) and parts and pieces. Nothing remotely > computing that isn't beige, and damn little of that. > > > > > > That's about it. > > > > Good luck, > > > > John > > > > > I'm going to Los Angeles, CA for a few days next week on business. Are there > > > any good spots to check out for classic computing / electronics gear? I'll > > > probably be in the Pasadena area. Last time I went I was in Ceritos, and all > > > the cool electronics surplus places I've heard of were closed. I also have > > > the luxury of several equipment boxes that will be shipped along with me and > > > returned on my way back :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From lists at microvax.org Sat Feb 14 17:44:48 2004 From: lists at microvax.org (meltie) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:27 2005 Subject: Hobbyist VMS (was: Got a DEC 2000 Alpha server, need help) In-Reply-To: <002101c3f2ec$43224970$5b01a8c0@athlon> References: <002101c3f2ec$43224970$5b01a8c0@athlon> Message-ID: <200402142344.48839.lists@microvax.org> On Saturday 14 February 2004 11:18, Antonio Carlini wrote: > Seen on comp.os.vms: > > Currently on www.encompassus.org when one follows the links for > "join today" for an associate member, one comes to the form at > https://secure2.sba.com/encompass/memberApp/associate.cfm > > This form requires it's first field "Associate ID". As a newly > joining member he doesn't have an associate ID yet. > > The form for "renew online" > (https:////secure2.sba.com/encompass/memberApp/associate_renew.cfm) > has the "Associate ID" optional. > > Perhaps this explains the problems some people have had? > > Antonio You can put what you like in the first field: "Associate ID" - it's something akin to a username. I used "awx", Witchy probably used "witchy" etc... alex/melt From wmaddox at pacbell.net Sun Feb 15 05:36:38 2004 From: wmaddox at pacbell.net (William Maddox) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:27 2005 Subject: OT: another reason to not like microsloth - caution, may contain rant. References: <20040214205946.GB1789@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <00f201c3f3b7$f955a450$1000a8c0@winxpsp1a2100> You want Norton Ghost for this. It allows you to save a bit-for-bit image of a disk partition, including writing onto removable media such as CDRs. --Bill ----- Original Message ----- > Speaking of Micro$oft problems and 2000, anyone have any advice on > cloning all of the OS files on a Windoze 2000 Pro PeeCee? I found one > (very, very, cheap) well over a year ago at a thrift shop, to use for > some audio utilities that I can't use from UNIX or MacOS. The problem > is, I don't have a Windoze 2000 Pro CD, and if the system crashes, > it's bye bye OS. So, I need some sort of system backup. Do I just > need to unhide hidden files, then copy everything to a spare hard > disk, or is the process more involved than that? > From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Sun Feb 15 05:54:29 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:27 2005 Subject: Old Amiga game... "Portal"? Message-ID: <20040215115429.GC15894@bos7.spole.gov> Long ago, before I even had a hard drive on my A1000, I had a game for the Amiga that I think was called "Portal". It was more of an interactive story where you played the part of an astronaut returning to a deserted Earth. I have been googling, etc., and can't find it on any game lists. Given that AFAIK, it runs under AmigaDOS 1.1 and probably doesn't have a hard-disk- installable version, I'm sure all of these newcomers to the Amiga scene have never heard of it. So... does this ring any bells with anyone? Do I have the title right? -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 15-Feb-2004 11:50 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -50.9 F (-46.1 C) Windchill -80.2 F (-62.3 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 7.8 kts Grid 065 Barometer 689.9 mb (10254. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From teoz at neo.rr.com Sun Feb 15 07:21:29 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:27 2005 Subject: Old Amiga game... "Portal"? References: <20040215115429.GC15894@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: <003a01c3f3c6$9f7dc5c0$0500fea9@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ethan Dicks" To: Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2004 6:54 AM Subject: Old Amiga game... "Portal"? > > Long ago, before I even had a hard drive on my A1000, I had a game for the > Amiga that I think was called "Portal". It was more of an interactive > story where you played the part of an astronaut returning to a deserted > Earth. > > I have been googling, etc., and can't find it on any game lists. Given that > AFAIK, it runs under AmigaDOS 1.1 and probably doesn't have a hard-disk- > installable version, I'm sure all of these newcomers to the Amiga scene have > never heard of it. > > So... does this ring any bells with anyone? Do I have the title right? > > -ethan > > -- > Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 15-Feb-2004 11:50 Z > South Pole Station > PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -50.9 F (-46.1 C) Windchill -80.2 F (-62.3 C) > APO AP 96598 Wind 7.8 kts Grid 065 Barometer 689.9 mb (10254. ft) > > Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html > http://hol.abime.net/?id=1110 Is this it? From waltje at pdp11.nl Sun Feb 15 07:44:53 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:27 2005 Subject: OT: another reason to not like microsloth - caution, may contain rant. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 15 Feb 2004, Witchy wrote: > > Mail messages are all stored in one PST file (typically), That largely depends on the mail system used. > Sadly, for my sins I'm an MCSE - So am I, and have been for many years. --f From jrice54 at charter.net Sun Feb 15 08:31:55 2004 From: jrice54 at charter.net (James Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:27 2005 Subject: OT: another reason to not like microsloth - caution, may contain rant. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <402F82DB.6010704@charter.net> Fred N. van Kempen wrote: >>Sadly, for my sins I'm an MCSE - >> >> >So am I, and have been for many years. > >--f > > > > We have to go where the money is. That's why I play with Mac's, Sgi, Sun and NeXT at home. Keeps me sane. James -- http://webpages.charter.net/jrice54/classiccomp2.html From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Sun Feb 15 09:13:38 2004 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:27 2005 Subject: Old Amiga game... "Portal"? Message-ID: <20.228f89cf.2d60e6a2@aol.com> In a message dated 2/15/2004 6:55:57 AM Eastern Standard Time, dickset@amanda.spole.gov writes: Long ago, before I even had a hard drive on my A1000, I had a game for the Amiga that I think was called "Portal". It was more of an interactive story where you played the part of an astronaut returning to a deserted Earth. I have been googling, etc., and can't find it on any game lists. Given that AFAIK, it runs under AmigaDOS 1.1 and probably doesn't have a hard-disk- installable version, I'm sure all of these newcomers to the Amiga scene have never heard of it. So... does this ring any bells with anyone? Do I have the title right? heh, I remember that game and have it for my apple //e. Something about finding out where everyone went and you interact with some computer system that will help you find out what happened. -- I am not willing to give up my liberties for the appearance of 'security' From jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to Sun Feb 15 09:48:30 2004 From: jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:27 2005 Subject: Help with RT-11 V02B References: <402D0FAE.835F0CB0@compsys.to> <16429.12879.834885.566061@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <402F94CE.1CF536CD@compsys.to> >Paul Koning wrote: > > "Jerome" == Jerome H Fine writes: > > HOWEVER!!!!!!!!!!!!! After I "BOOT DX0" and: > > .R PIP *RK0:*=RK0:RKMNSJ.SYS/U > > Then back to E11 and "BOOT RK0" It does not work! > > But if I "BOOT DX0" again and: > > .R PIP *RK0:*=RK0:MONITR.SYS/U > > and repeat, then I am able to "BOOT RK0", but I end up on > > DX0, which is what I would expect since under V02B, the file > > MONITR.SYS is really DXMNSJ.SYS and has all the stuff to boot > > DX0 which it does do! > > So what might be wrong? Any Ideas? > No, the problem is that the monitor you want to boot MUST be called > MONITR.SYS. > So the correct commands are: > .r pip > *rk0:monitr.sys=rk0:rkmnsj.sys > *rk0:a=rk0:monitr.sys/u > Ditto if you want to switch monitors on the floppy boot medium. > You copied the floppy system, so the monitr.sys you have is the one > that is intended for a floppy disk as the system disk. When you > hooked that (with /u) indeed it will boot the DX0 system. Not because > "under V02B, MONITR.SYS is really DXMNSJ.SYS" but rather because you > started from a floppy system so on THAT system, MONITR.SYS is a > monitor built for a floppy system device. > See also page 4-34 in the RT11 SYSGEN manual, which you can find at > http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/pdp11/rt11/DEC-11-ORGMA-A-D_RT11v2Sysg.pdf > That describes the procedure for switching between SJ and FB monitors, > which clearly shows that the key issue is that the monitor you want to > boot is always MONITR.SYS. Jerome Fine replies: I also posted the problem on alt.sys.pdp11 and vmsnet.pdp-11. Megan Gentry answered with exactly the same information, although her explanation was only 4 lines since she is aware that I already understand what the RT-11 commands are. I just did not realize that the file being booted had to have the exact name "MONITR.SYS" BUT, your expanded explanation is appreciated since I am sure that most everyone else reading it would not have understood. One point that is interesting is that the command: .R PIP *RK0:*=RK0:RKMNSJ.SYS/U is also accepted so long as the file MONITR.SYS is present and is identical to RKMNSJ.SYS; also MONITR.SYS can be placed on the media before or after the "/U" command. Naturally, the real point to be careful of is that MONITR.SYS is an exact copy of the correct file with the proper resident device driver present within. With so many different monitor files, I imagine that it might have been a bit difficult to keep track if the user was switching back and forth. While I started out with V02 of RT-11, I almost never bothered with V03 of RT-11. So it would have been extremely rare, if ever, that changing monitors was required. By V4.00 of RT-11, the command had become: COPY/BOOT RK0:RT11FB.SYS RK0: and the file RT11FB.SYS was used with ALL devices. MONITR.SYS was no longer in use, although it would certainly have been allowed to have that name if the user had some reason I want to set up a CD with as many RT-11 distributions as possible, but I would STRONGLY prefer to provide RK05 image files rather than multiple RX01 image files. For RT-11 distributions prior to V05.00, I probably have: V01-15 / 1 * DT V02B / 2 * RX01 V02C / 2 * RX01 V03 / 9 * RX01 V03B / 9 * RX01 V4.00 / 1 * RK05 V4.00C / 1 * RK05 but I doubt that I have the correct Volume ID / Owner for V4.00C of RT-11. In addition, I can now provide RK05 file images, but again the Volume ID / Owner will probably be incorrect along with the order of the files. After the CD is prepared and distributed, I want to work on a Y10K compliant V05.03 for hobby users. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From dvcorbin at optonline.net Sun Feb 15 10:32:55 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:27 2005 Subject: OT: another reason to not like microsloth - caution, may contain rant. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Fred, the comment in question was specifically related to mS Outlook..... >>>> > Mail messages are all stored in one PST file (typically), >>>>That largely depends on the mail system used. From waltje at pdp11.nl Sun Feb 15 11:02:33 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:27 2005 Subject: OT: another reason to not like microsloth - caution, may contain rant. In-Reply-To: <402F82DB.6010704@charter.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 15 Feb 2004, James Rice wrote: > We have to go where the money is. That's why I play with Mac's, Sgi, > Sun and NeXT at home. Keeps me sane. Exactly my point ! --f From waltje at pdp11.nl Sun Feb 15 11:03:40 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:27 2005 Subject: OT: another reason to not like microsloth - caution, may contain rant. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 15 Feb 2004, David V. Corbin wrote: > Fred, > the comment in question was specifically related to mS Outlook..... Thats not a mail system, that is a client program. And even with Outlook, there's two completely different ones, Outlook and -Express. --f From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sun Feb 15 11:18:01 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:28 2005 Subject: Orlando Hamfest finds, Finally day. Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040215121801.008a7bb0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Just got back from the last (1/2) day of the hamfest. Todays haul; Two boxs of HP and Tektronix manuals. A pile of IBM RS/6000 docs A studio grade RGB monitor (hopefully to replace SEVERAL of the Sun, HP and SGI RGB monitors that I current have) A Compaq Portable III A HP 214A Pulse generator (an oldie but it will pulse 100V into 50Ohms and none of the new stuff will do that) A Sinclair ZX-61 with accessories (Glen, are you listening?) An IBM PS/2 model 8525 (Kelvin?) A pouch with a HP Logic Probe, Currrent Probe, Chip Clip and Logic Pulser. Joe PS the LD Xpro programmer has the plug in for the 44 pin PLCC 80x51 type devices. Two days down and one to go. Here's the haul so far" HP 9845B (appears to be loaded) HP 1000 computer (yes, another one!) HP 1351 Graphics Generator (vector graphics for the HP 1000!) HP 3468 DMM with HP-IL interface Three large boxs of early data books Original early IBM PC. Appears to be untampered with. Some NEC APC III manuals. Passed up several more boxfuls of these. Anybody need them? NuBus prototypiong board made by Apple. This one has two ROMs and a 68000 installed at the factory. Anybody know what the story is on that? P133 notebook computer with Network Stumbler installed (this should be fun!) A like new Logical Devices XPro EPROM programmer with the PLCC plugins. An IR black body source with controller Drum roll please. Taa Da! National Semiconductor Pacer SBC Passed up a Sparc notebook computer but got a lead on some Apple Lisa parts. Joe From vcf at siconic.com Sun Feb 15 11:50:27 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:28 2005 Subject: Old Amiga game... "Portal"? In-Reply-To: <20040215115429.GC15894@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: On Sun, 15 Feb 2004, Ethan Dicks wrote: > Long ago, before I even had a hard drive on my A1000, I had a game for the > Amiga that I think was called "Portal". It was more of an interactive > story where you played the part of an astronaut returning to a deserted > Earth. > > I have been googling, etc., and can't find it on any game lists. Given that > AFAIK, it runs under AmigaDOS 1.1 and probably doesn't have a hard-disk- > installable version, I'm sure all of these newcomers to the Amiga scene have > never heard of it. > > So... does this ring any bells with anyone? Do I have the title right? Ah yes, Portal. I remember it well. I actually played through the entire story (boy that took a lot of long, late nights). I've got the Apple ][ version. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Sun Feb 15 11:54:30 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:28 2005 Subject: Old Amiga game... "Portal"? In-Reply-To: <20.228f89cf.2d60e6a2@aol.com> Message-ID: Gawd damn dave! Will you please use a quoting system that makes it seem like you are actually replying to an e-mail message and not just adding to it? Look at your message below. Can you tell right off where Ethan's message ends and yours begins? I surely can't. This is complete lameness. This is not the first complaint lobbed your way. Are you listening? HELLO!? On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 SUPRDAVE@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 2/15/2004 6:55:57 AM Eastern Standard Time, > dickset@amanda.spole.gov writes: > Long ago, before I even had a hard drive on my A1000, I had a game for the > Amiga that I think was called "Portal". It was more of an interactive > story where you played the part of an astronaut returning to a deserted > Earth. > > I have been googling, etc., and can't find it on any game lists. Given that > AFAIK, it runs under AmigaDOS 1.1 and probably doesn't have a hard-disk- > installable version, I'm sure all of these newcomers to the Amiga scene have > never heard of it. > > So... does this ring any bells with anyone? Do I have the title right? > heh, I remember that game and have it for my apple //e. Something about > finding out where everyone went and you interact with some computer system that > will help you find out what happened. > > -- > I am not willing to give up my liberties for the appearance of 'security' > -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Sun Feb 15 11:58:16 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:28 2005 Subject: Old Amiga game... "Portal"? In-Reply-To: <003a01c3f3c6$9f7dc5c0$0500fea9@game> References: <20040215115429.GC15894@bos7.spole.gov> <003a01c3f3c6$9f7dc5c0$0500fea9@game> Message-ID: <20040215175816.GA9192@bos7.spole.gov> On Sun, Feb 15, 2004 at 08:21:29AM -0500, Teo Zenios wrote: >On Sunday, February 15, 2004 6:54 AM, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > Long ago, before I even had a hard drive on my A1000, I had a game for the > > Amiga that I think was called "Portal"... > > http://hol.abime.net/?id=1110 > > Is this it? So it is. I have never run across this site. Thanks for the pointer! -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 15-Feb-2004 17:51 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -51.3 F (-46.3 C) Windchill -81.8 F (-63.2 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 8.1 kts Grid 088 Barometer 690.5 mb (10234. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From MTPro at aol.com Sun Feb 15 12:35:49 2004 From: MTPro at aol.com (MTPro@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:28 2005 Subject: S-100 Plug Message-ID: <102.3ebf6942.2d611605@aol.com> Does anyone have a plug for sale for this S-100 system, please see: http://members.aol.com/mtpro/plug.jpg Thanks, David, classiccomputing.com From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sun Feb 15 12:52:18 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:28 2005 Subject: S-100 Plug In-Reply-To: <102.3ebf6942.2d611605@aol.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040215135218.00876740@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Didn't we go through this discussion about a year ago? It's a power cord with a standard oval plug with three round pins. They were used on a lot of the older test equipment including HP, Tekronix and others. Joe At 01:35 PM 2/15/04 -0500, you wrote: >Does anyone have a plug for sale for this S-100 system, please see: >http://members.aol.com/mtpro/plug.jpg >Thanks, David, classiccomputing.com > From curt at atarimuseum.com Sun Feb 15 12:54:17 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:28 2005 Subject: NSC 980010482-008 ??? In-Reply-To: <102.3ebf6942.2d611605@aol.com> References: <102.3ebf6942.2d611605@aol.com> Message-ID: <402FC059.1070602@atarimuseum.com> Anyone know what this is: National Semiconductor: NSC 980010482-008 Curt From technobug at comcast.net Sun Feb 15 12:57:52 2004 From: technobug at comcast.net (CRC) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:28 2005 Subject: Orlando Hamfest finds, Finally day. In-Reply-To: <200402151800.i1FI097G022649@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <200402151800.i1FI097G022649@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: "Joe R." at Sun, 15 Feb 2004 12:18:01 -0500 bragged: [hack...] > NuBus prototypiong board made by Apple. This one has two ROMs and a > 68000 installed at the factory. Anybody know what the story is on that? You found yourself a Macintosh coprocessor board. They developed a RT/OS called A/ROSE (and the extension A/ROSE that no one knew what to do with...) to go with it. has a good write-up on the beast. [...] > Drum roll please. Taa Da! > National Semiconductor Pacer SBC Another monument to Nationals propensity to shoot themselves in the foot. I was running a DG Nova 1200 at the time this POS came out and was one of the first to stand in line to get the micro version of the 1200, And then only tot find that they split the Program Register into two 8-bit registers thereby making it a paged machine and rendering the thing useless. And then there's the static registers in the 32000 series... National had the chance to do right in many cases, but always got it wrong. AHHHHHHH!!!!! Enough of my rant. Claude From MTPro at aol.com Sun Feb 15 13:01:37 2004 From: MTPro at aol.com (MTPro@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:28 2005 Subject: Things for sale on Vintage Computer Marketplace Message-ID: <122.2b65fcf0.2d611c11@aol.com> In reference to some items I mentioned for sale recently; the items that I haven't sold directly are now on http://marketplace.vintage.org/. The most recent nine postings are all from me. I would appreciate anyone taking a look. I am motivated to sell these and some other items, reasonable offers are welcomed. Thank you, David Greelish, classiccomputing.com From jcwren at jcwren.com Sun Feb 15 13:07:45 2004 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:28 2005 Subject: NSC 980010482-008 ??? In-Reply-To: <402FC059.1070602@atarimuseum.com> References: <102.3ebf6942.2d611605@aol.com> <402FC059.1070602@atarimuseum.com> Message-ID: <402FC381.8030806@jcwren.com> I don't know what one is, but if worst came to worst, you could call these people < http://www2.keyways.com/inv/25/96032768.html > and ask them. --jc Curt Vendel wrote: > Anyone know what this is: > > National Semiconductor: > > NSC 980010482-008 > > > Curt > > > > From mbg at TheWorld.com Sun Feb 15 11:12:19 2004 From: mbg at TheWorld.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:28 2005 Subject: Help with RT-11 V02B References: <402D0FAE.835F0CB0@compsys.to> Message-ID: <200402151712.MAA20393391@shell.TheWorld.com> >That describes the procedure for switching between SJ and FB monitors, >which clearly shows that the key issue is that the monitor you want to >boot is always MONITR.SYS. Very good... I had sent that in private mail to jerome... The point is that at that time, the monitor/device driver separation had not yet occurred (didn't happen until V3B or V4) and so the boot code specifically looked for the file MONITR.SYS on the boot volume. I believe that one other requirement from the time is that it had to be in the first directory segment... I seem to remember the boot code at one point had a problem with scanning past the first segment. I don't remember if that was a design problem from early in RT history or a temporary, introduced bug. Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | email: mbg at world.std.com | | Member of Technical Staff | megan at savaje.com | | SavaJe Technologies, Inc. | (s/ at /@/) | | 100 Apollo Drive | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Chelmsford, MA 01824 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (978) 256 6521 (DEC '77-'98) | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From curt at atarimuseum.com Sun Feb 15 13:20:24 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:28 2005 Subject: NSC 980010482-008 ??? In-Reply-To: <402FC381.8030806@jcwren.com> References: <102.3ebf6942.2d611605@aol.com> <402FC059.1070602@atarimuseum.com> <402FC381.8030806@jcwren.com> Message-ID: <402FC678.9090009@atarimuseum.com> Thanks dude, I found that a few mins back off of Google.... Just have a box of Qbus boards I'm trying to ID to see what I can use/keep and the rest I'm going to put up onto VCM shortly along with some other DEC goodies I have spares of. Curt J.C. Wren wrote: > I don't know what one is, but if worst came to worst, you could call > these people < http://www2.keyways.com/inv/25/96032768.html > and ask > them. > > --jc > > Curt Vendel wrote: > >> Anyone know what this is: >> >> National Semiconductor: >> >> NSC 980010482-008 >> >> >> Curt >> >> >> >> > > -- Curt Vendel & Karl Morris ----------------------------------------------------------------------- The Atari Museum http://www.atarimuseum.com The Atari Explorer http://www.atari-explorer.com From pkoning at equallogic.com Sun Feb 15 13:42:40 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:28 2005 Subject: OCR of 644 TIFF files? References: <200402141414.i1EEEXh22797@mwave.heeltoe.com> Message-ID: <16431.52144.453015.116609@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Brad" == Brad Parker writes: Brad> Hi, Brad> If you had, say, 644 TIFF files, containing black and white Brad> scanned text from a patent application. And say, you wanted to Brad> turn that back into a text file, what would you do? The images Brad> contain code listings. Brad> Is a commercial OCR program the way to go? Any suggestions? Brad> Is there any freely-available OCR which would be up to the Brad> task? Brad> (it's the Symbolics 3600 patent) Adobe Acrobat (the full version, not the reader) has a downloadable OCR option that's quite good. The free version can do 50 pages at a time, so it takes a bit of work to do that many pages, but it can be done. I've used it for a several hundred page document.. paul From brad at heeltoe.com Sun Feb 15 14:28:41 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:28 2005 Subject: cleaning a TU58 tape head - is alcohol ok? Message-ID: <200402152028.i1FKSfJ06900@mwave.heeltoe.com> Does anyone know if it's ok to clean a TU58 tape head with alcohol? (or, perhaps, does working on a tu58 lead one to drink? :-) -brad From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Feb 15 14:31:53 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:28 2005 Subject: OT: another reason to not like microsloth - caution, may contain rant. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040215123114.E70976@newshell.lmi.net> > > the comment in question was specifically related to mS Outlook..... > Thats not a mail system, that is a client program. And even with > Outlook, there's two completely different ones, Outlook and -Express. It's not a client program! It's a Virus Transfer Protocol! From waltje at pdp11.nl Sun Feb 15 14:32:52 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:28 2005 Subject: cleaning a TU58 tape head - is alcohol ok? In-Reply-To: <200402152028.i1FKSfJ06900@mwave.heeltoe.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 15 Feb 2004, Brad Parker wrote: > Does anyone know if it's ok to clean a TU58 tape head with alcohol? Its ok, as long as you use the pure stuff.. not the stuff some stores sell as "cleaning alcohol" 'cos that stuff contains some really nasty thingies that pretty much dissolve anything, including magnetic heads. > (or, perhaps, does working on a tu58 lead one to drink? :-) * I refuse to comment on that * :) --f From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Feb 15 14:37:15 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:28 2005 Subject: S-100 Plug In-Reply-To: <102.3ebf6942.2d611605@aol.com> References: <102.3ebf6942.2d611605@aol.com> Message-ID: <20040215123500.C70976@newshell.lmi.net> On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 MTPro@aol.com wrote: > Does anyone have a plug for sale for this S-100 system, please see: > http://members.aol.com/mtpro/plug.jpg > Thanks, David, classiccomputing.com do you want a PLUG? or do you want a CORD? standard [old-style] appliance cord as used on HP, Tektronix, consumer electronics, etc now getting harder to find, since it was changed to a different style over 20 years ago. From jpl15 at panix.com Sun Feb 15 14:40:11 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:28 2005 Subject: cleaning a TU58 tape head - is alcohol ok? In-Reply-To: <200402152028.i1FKSfJ06900@mwave.heeltoe.com> References: <200402152028.i1FKSfJ06900@mwave.heeltoe.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 15 Feb 2004, Brad Parker wrote: > > Does anyone know if it's ok to clean a TU58 tape head with alcohol? As has been mentioned - read the label of the bottle - be sure that it's not the usual 20/80 mix of alcohol/water - the al evaporates but the water stays back and smears the residue all over... look for stuff that's over 80% alcohol. Been there, done that, wrecked a TK50 tape and damn near the drive along with it... Cheers John PS: And you'd think I'd know better.... From pkoning at equallogic.com Sun Feb 15 14:45:22 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:28 2005 Subject: cleaning a TU58 tape head - is alcohol ok? References: <200402152028.i1FKSfJ06900@mwave.heeltoe.com> Message-ID: <16431.55906.696738.995575@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Brad" == Brad Parker writes: Brad> Does anyone know if it's ok to clean a TU58 tape head with Brad> alcohol? As others said, I'd suggest something that's well over 90% pure. Ethanol can be had in 96% grade. Another option is isopropyl alcohol but be sure you get the high grade stuff, NOT the 70% or so stuff that also has oil in it ("rubbing alcohol"). There used to be head cleaner fluid available at good hi-fi stores; some of that was probably some sort of fluorocarbon -- probably no longer sufficiently politically correct... Brad> (or, perhaps, does working on a tu58 lead one to drink? :-) Very definitely. When DEC named that beast "DECtape II" they slandered a very nice piece of hardware (the TU55/56). paul From jpl15 at panix.com Sun Feb 15 14:49:03 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:28 2005 Subject: S-100 Plug In-Reply-To: <20040215123500.C70976@newshell.lmi.net> References: <102.3ebf6942.2d611605@aol.com> <20040215123500.C70976@newshell.lmi.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 15 Feb 2004, Fred Cisin wrote: > On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 MTPro@aol.com wrote: > > Does anyone have a plug for sale for this S-100 system, please see: > > standard [old-style] appliance cord as used on HP, Tektronix, consumer > electronics, etc > now getting harder to find, since it was changed to a different style over > 20 years ago. > We used to call the "Typewriter cords" since a lot of 60's and 70's office machinery used 'em. A quick browse thru one of my catalogs - (Newark) in the Belden section, shows them currently available - part number 17280 for 'hot left of gnd' and 17952 for 'hot right of gnd' pinning. Newark stock numbers: 36F987 for the 17280 36F986 for the 17952 -986 is $6.32 -987 is $5.67 in single-unit quantities. Cheers John From jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to Sun Feb 15 15:25:10 2004 From: jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:28 2005 Subject: Help with RT-11 V02B References: <402D0FAE.835F0CB0@compsys.to> <200402151712.MAA20393391@shell.TheWorld.com> Message-ID: <402FE3B6.1F8AAB97@compsys.to> >Megan wrote: > >That describes the procedure for switching between SJ and FB monitors, > >which clearly shows that the key issue is that the monitor you want to > >boot is always MONITR.SYS. > Very good... I had sent that in private mail to jerome... The point > is that at that time, the monitor/device driver separation had not > yet occurred (didn't happen until V3B or V4) and so the boot code > specifically looked for the file MONITR.SYS on the boot volume. Jerome Fine replies: The use of a monitor file with the integrated "monitor/device driver" was last used with V03B, as far as I can understand and see with the 7 RT-11 binary distributions that I have prior to V05.00 of RT-11. With V04.00 of RT-11, the separation had occurred. For V03B of RT-11, there was an "almost" impossible number of Monitor files to be distributed. > I believe that one other requirement from the time is that it had > to be in the first directory segment... I seem to remember the > boot code at one point had a problem with scanning past the first > segment. I don't remember if that was a design problem from early > in RT history or a temporary, introduced bug. Jerome Fine replies: For V02B of RT-11, as far as I can see, the hardware boot code is only in 2 blocks of the device - block 0 and block 2. By V04.00, the hardware boot code had also expanded to blocks 3, 4 and 5. As for the boot code being in the first directory segment, V04.00 contained a DY.MAC file with code for a double sided RX02 drive. However, I don't think that the hardware boot code allowed the monitor boot file to be on the second side of an RX03 floppy. At one point, I ported the code from V04.00 of DY.MAC to V05.03 of DY.MAC for RX03 media. However, I don't think I bothered to correct that aspect of the boot code. At this point, I am confident I can finish a CD with about thirteen RT-11 distributions of RT-11 for V05.03 and prior. For V05.00 and later, there will be RL02 file images that are bootable. Prior to V05.00, there will be RK05 file images that can be booted. After that is done, my goal is to work on a Y10K compliant V05.03 of RT-11 for hobby users. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From jpl15 at panix.com Sun Feb 15 17:16:45 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:28 2005 Subject: HP 8" Drive eBay 2 hours left Message-ID: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=167&item=2786529895 $50 min bid - from Hawaii Cheers John From spectre at floodgap.com Sun Feb 15 17:48:16 2004 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:28 2005 Subject: Old Amiga game... "Portal"? In-Reply-To: <20040215115429.GC15894@bos7.spole.gov> from Ethan Dicks at "Feb 15, 4 11:54:29 am" Message-ID: <200402152348.PAA10878@floodgap.com> > So... does this ring any bells with anyone? Do I have the title right? I played it for days straight until HOMER went home. (Mine is the C64 version.) I even have the Portal hardcover novel, signed by Rob Swigart himself! -- ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@floodgap.com -- Mistakes are often the stepping stones to catastrophic failure. ------------ From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Sun Feb 15 18:39:31 2004 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:28 2005 Subject: Old Amiga game... "Portal"? Message-ID: In a message dated 2/15/2004 12:56:48 PM Eastern Standard Time, vcf@siconic.com writes: Gawd damn dave! Will you please use a quoting system that makes it seem like you are actually replying to an e-mail message and not just adding to it? Look at your message below. Can you tell right off where Ethan's message ends and yours begins? I surely can't. This is complete lameness. This is not the first complaint lobbed your way. Are you listening? Better yet, I'll postpone any futher posts indefinately. From teoz at neo.rr.com Sun Feb 15 20:17:31 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:28 2005 Subject: Old Amiga game... "Portal"? References: <20040215115429.GC15894@bos7.spole.gov> <003a01c3f3c6$9f7dc5c0$0500fea9@game> <20040215175816.GA9192@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: <00a701c3f433$08a89040$0500fea9@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ethan Dicks" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2004 12:58 PM Subject: Re: Old Amiga game... "Portal"? > On Sun, Feb 15, 2004 at 08:21:29AM -0500, Teo Zenios wrote: > >On Sunday, February 15, 2004 6:54 AM, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > Long ago, before I even had a hard drive on my A1000, I had a game for the > > > Amiga that I think was called "Portal"... > > > > http://hol.abime.net/?id=1110 > > > > Is this it? > > So it is. I have never run across this site. Thanks for the pointer! > > -ethan > That site is the most up to date site for Amiga games and information. http://eab.abime.net is a very good forum ( I am a member) for Amiga related information, emulaters, games, upgrades, hardware problems, and general discussions. They also have a HOL section that talks about the site I posted in my previous reply. http://www.amiga-hardware.com/ is the best resource for Amiga hardware pictures and descriptions. From jwest at classiccmp.org Sun Feb 15 20:36:22 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:28 2005 Subject: here's a beautiful HP rack Message-ID: <000701c3f435$aa8c20a0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2788085365&category=1247 and if anyone likes that one, I have several I'd like to find homes for. Jay West From dvcorbin at optonline.net Sun Feb 15 20:42:47 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:28 2005 Subject: here's a beautiful HP rack In-Reply-To: <000701c3f435$aa8c20a0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: The biggest issue with racks is transporting them. I just had to pass on a wonderful Digital Rack because all methods of transport were too expensive.... >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org >>> [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Jay West >>> Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2004 9:36 PM >>> To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >>> Subject: here's a beautiful HP rack >>> >>> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=278808536 5&category=1247 >>> >>> and if anyone likes that one, I have several I'd like to >>> find homes for. >>> >>> Jay West From jpl15 at panix.com Sun Feb 15 21:09:34 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:28 2005 Subject: DEC RL02 carts on eBay Message-ID: Says '10 available' - these are RL02-DCs and the one in the picture has a white shock-watch... http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2786753916 starting bid $3.00 - each, I assume. Cheers John From aw288 at osfn.org Sun Feb 15 22:53:42 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:28 2005 Subject: Interesting NY Times story... In-Reply-To: <8B39793544120140B253EFE052E7ED0A0171DD21@nbulif015> Message-ID: > Setting up a celular base station while not trivial is not impossible. > The hardest part is the RF Tx and Rx sections, of which you need at > least two if you want to place calls and three if you want to place a > call to another phone on the same base. 50 to 75 years from now the > cell phone collectors should be able to make their own base stations > and route calls to other like minded people via their ever-on > broadband network connections. I doubt it will happen. Telephone collectors are an odd bunch - most, nearly all, completely ignore any phone equipment beyond, well, the telephone. There are extremely few that care about CO equipment. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From donm at cts.com Sun Feb 15 23:44:36 2004 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:28 2005 Subject: Xerox Monitor In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 14 Feb 2004, JP Hindin wrote: > > > On Sat, 14 Feb 2004, Merle K. Peirce wrote: > > Yes, the 820 is a little fellow. The 860 is CP/M based, but getting a > > system disk is very difficult. I don't think Don Maslin has one. the 860 > > is about 30 inches high with 2 8inch drives. > > I have an 860 IPS and all the system software plus manuals. > Of course, I've never actually *turned it on*. But it SHOULD work. :) JP, it is quite true that I do not have a system disk for the 860, though I have several data disks. I would be most appreciative of any copies that you could send me, either to retain or for archiving and return. Pleased to cover postage. - don From vcf at siconic.com Mon Feb 16 00:28:23 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:28 2005 Subject: Old Amiga game... "Portal"? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 SUPRDAVE@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 2/15/2004 12:56:48 PM Eastern Standard Time, > vcf@siconic.com writes: > Gawd damn dave! Will you please use a quoting system that makes it seem > like you are actually replying to an e-mail message and not just adding to > it? > > Look at your message below. Can you tell right off where Ethan's message > ends and yours begins? I surely can't. This is complete lameness. > > This is not the first complaint lobbed your way. Are you listening? > > Better yet, I'll postpone any futher posts indefinately. Oh no, not that! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Mon Feb 16 00:29:25 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:28 2005 Subject: Interesting NY Times story... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 15 Feb 2004, William Donzelli wrote: > > Setting up a celular base station while not trivial is not impossible. > > The hardest part is the RF Tx and Rx sections, of which you need at > > least two if you want to place calls and three if you want to place a > > call to another phone on the same base. 50 to 75 years from now the > > cell phone collectors should be able to make their own base stations > > and route calls to other like minded people via their ever-on > > broadband network connections. > > I doubt it will happen. Telephone collectors are an odd bunch - most, > nearly all, completely ignore any phone equipment beyond, well, the > telephone. There are extremely few that care about CO equipment. Sounds like Beanie Baby syndrome. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Feb 16 00:42:36 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:28 2005 Subject: Old Amiga game... "Portal"? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040215224007.E78365@newshell.lmi.net> Huh??? ? Did SUPRDAVE@aol.com write: > > Look at your message below. Can you tell right off where Ethan's message > > ends and yours begins? I surely can't. This is complete lameness. > > This is not the first complaint lobbed your way. Are you listening? ? On Sun, 15 Feb 2004, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 SUPRDAVE@aol.com wrote: > > > In a message dated 2/15/2004 12:56:48 PM Eastern Standard Time, > > vcf@siconic.com writes: > > Gawd damn dave! Will you please use a quoting system that makes it seem > > like you are actually replying to an e-mail message and not just adding to > > it? > > > > Look at your message below. Can you tell right off where Ethan's message > > ends and yours begins? I surely can't. This is complete lameness. > > > > This is not the first complaint lobbed your way. Are you listening? > > > > Better yet, I'll postpone any futher posts indefinately. > > Oh no, not that! > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From pat at computer-refuge.org Mon Feb 16 00:53:50 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:28 2005 Subject: Interesting NY Times story... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200402160153.50258.pat@computer-refuge.org> On Sunday 15 February 2004 23:53, William Donzelli wrote: > > Setting up a celular base station while not trivial is not > > impossible. The hardest part is the RF Tx and Rx sections, of which > > you need at least two if you want to place calls and three if you > > want to place a call to another phone on the same base. 50 to 75 > > years from now the cell phone collectors should be able to make > > their own base stations and route calls to other like minded people > > via their ever-on broadband network connections. > > I doubt it will happen. Telephone collectors are an odd bunch - most, > nearly all, completely ignore any phone equipment beyond, well, the > telephone. There are extremely few that care about CO equipment. I'd LOVE to get my hands on some CO equipment, but I'm afraid I've got neither the time/$$$ nor space right now to keep it (nor would I probably be able to find a manual or something if it was anything newer than relay-driven). Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ From tomj at wps.com Mon Feb 16 01:20:19 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:28 2005 Subject: NSC 980010482-008 ??? In-Reply-To: <402FC059.1070602@atarimuseum.com> References: <102.3ebf6942.2d611605@aol.com> <402FC059.1070602@atarimuseum.com> Message-ID: <1076915214.2040.36.camel@fiche> Chip? Chassis? Supertanker? Hints please... On Sun, 2004-02-15 at 10:54, Curt Vendel wrote: > Anyone know what this is: > > National Semiconductor: > > > NSC 980010482-008 From pat at computer-refuge.org Mon Feb 16 01:34:05 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:28 2005 Subject: Help needed identifying boards Message-ID: <200402160234.05689.pat@computer-refuge.org> I've got a whole bunch of boards that fall into a couple of different "categories" of what they look like. I've got a few different types of HP boards and some "unlabelled manufacturer" boards (the DC1127 pictures). Note that I've probably got better looking boards on average than these; these are just the ones off the top of the pile that were easy to bring inside. The pictures are up at: http://computer-refuge.org/classiccmp/pics040216/ I'm going to guess the HP boards are labelled by the part number of the machine they go in; the 09885 are for a 9885 and the 02116 are for a 2116? And before you go asking me for the boards, stop. I'm not going to do anything with them until I know what they are. : ) Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ From cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net Mon Feb 16 04:35:34 2004 From: cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:28 2005 Subject: DEC RL02 carts on eBay In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <40309CF6.9090102@4mcnabb.net> John Lawson wrote: > Says '10 available' - these are RL02-DCs and the one in the picture has a >white shock-watch... > > >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2786753916 > > > You gotta be careful about these. I bought one off e-bay a year ago that ended up having been bulk-erased and therefore useless. From RMaxwell at atlantissi.com Mon Feb 16 10:31:48 2004 From: RMaxwell at atlantissi.com (Robert Maxwell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:28 2005 Subject: Smoke on the Horizon... oh s**t! Message-ID: <9726BA9DE867D51183B900B0D0AB85F8013E48CD@inetmail.atlantissi.com> 5-6 years ago someone decided I could provide a good home for (most of) a retired NorthStar Horizon... It came without drives, software and the HSIO-4 serial port card for which I did receive a manual. I didn't have a pressing need to have it working, so I've taken my time assembling the parts necessary to revive the beast - I finally had enough supporting materials to plug it in last weekend. The first thing I saw was a bright flash and "pop!", which led to a quick unplugging. I couldn't locate anything that appeared to have blown, so I _hoped_ that it was a stray piece of conductive junk that got blown away by the initial power. I then became methodical, and disconnected the power supply from the motherboard, and used an external supply to try charging each of the great honking electrolytic capacitors - they were all OK: internal leakage is really good, considering their age and period of inactivity. With the PSU running unloaded, the caps charged to 20 volts on the 16V rails (positive and negative), and about 11V on the 8V line - perfectly reasonable for an unloaded supply. Next I reconnected the boards and repowered the beast - the unregulated supplies were all holding up without complaint, so I tried booting a disk. The floppy drive was spinning, and it stopped when I hit Reset, but there was no drive select or seeking. Then something (it used to be a tantalum cap) caught fire. Unplug again. The former capacitor was the input filter on the 7812 12-volt regulator on the HRAM6 64K DRAM card. There was also a dead short on the 7812 output, caused by its output filter tantalum. There's also a wrecked tantalum on the input side of the 78L12 regulator on the CPU card: it didn't burn, it just blew half its coating off (it may have been the original flash...?). Now, the questions: what the hell happened? Failures of tantalums (I've witnessed) are usually due to reversed polarity: not only are these particular parts long-term residents of the boards, but the unregulated +12V supply is the highest DC voltage in the machine - how did the - terminal (DC Ground) become more positive than the +? How did that happen on two S-100 cards when the main supply, motherboard and floppy drive show no problem? Has any other Horizon (or S-100) keeper experienced anything like this? Next, the problems: I've got replacement regulators and capacitors, but what if the damage spread to the DRAMS (16Kx1, qty. 36) and the boot EPROM (2708, labelled HGT E000)? If I need them, does anybody have spare memories, or a copy of the EPROM image? I can even rig a 2716 (one supply... yay!) as long as I know what belongs inside. I really want to know what went wrong before I try plugging this thing in again. Regards, Bob From vcf at siconic.com Mon Feb 16 10:47:41 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:29 2005 Subject: Smoke on the Horizon... oh s**t! In-Reply-To: <9726BA9DE867D51183B900B0D0AB85F8013E48CD@inetmail.atlantissi.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 16 Feb 2004, Robert Maxwell wrote: > Then something (it used to be a tantalum cap) caught fire. Unplug again. > The former capacitor was the input filter on the 7812 12-volt regulator on > the HRAM6 64K DRAM card. There was also a dead short on the 7812 output, > caused by its output filter tantalum. There's also a wrecked tantalum on > the input side of the 78L12 regulator on the CPU card: it didn't burn, it > just blew half its coating off (it may have been the original flash...?). Perfectly normal (actually). > > Now, the questions: what the hell happened? Failures of tantalums (I've > witnessed) are usually due to reversed polarity: not only are these > particular parts long-term residents of the boards, but the unregulated +12V > supply is the highest DC voltage in the machine - how did the - terminal (DC > Ground) become more positive than the +? How did that happen on two S-100 > cards when the main supply, motherboard and floppy drive show no problem? It has to do with age. Tantalum capacitors are very prone to blowing just as you describe on machines that are as old as what you're dealing with here. In fact, blowing a tantalum cap on an S-100 machine is a rite of passage. Frank McConnell has a terrific photo of a tantalum blowing on a Sol-20 that I decided to just turn on and let fate deal with. The cap blew with lots of noise and light and fanfare, but otherwise the system powered up normally eventually. > Has any other Horizon (or S-100) keeper experienced anything like this? > Next, the problems: I've got replacement regulators and capacitors, but > what if the damage spread to the DRAMS (16Kx1, qty. 36) and the boot EPROM > (2708, labelled HGT E000)? If I need them, does anybody have spare > memories, or a copy of the EPROM image? I can even rig a 2716 (one > supply... yay!) as long as I know what belongs inside. I wouldn't worry about any of that really. It's possible that they might've been damaged, but its more possible that things are just fine and you should replace the caps eventually. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From wilconsys at terra.com.br Mon Feb 16 10:21:22 2004 From: wilconsys at terra.com.br (Wilson Barbosa) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:29 2005 Subject: Memory Message-ID: <000801c3f4a8$eb980f00$2101a8c0@compaq> Dear John I?m try to find information on DEC memory M7551 5017547-01-D1-P2. Do you have it. If so please can you provide me a copy? Many thanks Wilson Barbosa A Brazilian user of OLD lsi-11/73. Thanks From gerold.pauler at gmx.net Mon Feb 16 11:12:54 2004 From: gerold.pauler at gmx.net (Gerold Pauler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:29 2005 Subject: Geveke Schematics (was HP ASR33 reader run control) References: <200402081938.i18JcYPp018933@spies.com> <4026C26C.9070004@gmx.net> Message-ID: <4030FA16.4080609@gmx.net> Finally I got the Geveke schematics scanned, cleaned and up on my website. My thanks to Getronics Nederland (successor of Geveke), who gave permission to publish them on my download page. http://pdp8.de/download Gerold Pauler wrote: > Hello, > > after all I managed to update the schematics of the reader run control > of my ASR33 Teletype from HP. > I also put a schematic of the RSR232 to 20 mA current loop converter > that I am using online. > And I have updated the teletype portion of my website. > Now I "only" have to clean up the scanned copies of the Geveke > schematics with photoshop to make them more readable and then > put them in nice pdf files. > > If interested take a look at > http://pdp8.de/en > > Gerold From curt at atarimuseum.com Mon Feb 16 13:01:39 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:29 2005 Subject: NSC 980010482-008 ??? In-Reply-To: <1076915214.2040.36.camel@fiche> References: <102.3ebf6942.2d611605@aol.com> <402FC059.1070602@atarimuseum.com> <1076915214.2040.36.camel@fiche> Message-ID: <40311393.2090707@atarimuseum.com> Seems to be some kind of QBUS board. Curt Tom Jennings wrote: >Chip? Chassis? Supertanker? Hints please... > > >On Sun, 2004-02-15 at 10:54, Curt Vendel wrote: > > >>Anyone know what this is: >> >>National Semiconductor: >> >> >> NSC 980010482-008 >> >> > > > > -- Curt Vendel & Karl Morris ----------------------------------------------------------------------- The Atari Museum http://www.atarimuseum.com The Atari Explorer http://www.atari-explorer.com From patrick at evocative.com Mon Feb 16 13:17:34 2004 From: patrick at evocative.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:29 2005 Subject: Smoke on the Horizon... oh s**t! In-Reply-To: <9726BA9DE867D51183B900B0D0AB85F8013E48CD@inetmail.atlantissi.com> Message-ID: > Then something (it used to be a tantalum cap) caught fire. > Unplug again. Evidently there are two types of tantalum caps: those that have failed, and those that are about to. Age is apparently not their friend, although some go on forever without a hitch. As they say in home brewing, "relax, don't worry, have a homebrew." Replace your caps, replace your regulator, reverify your supply voltages, and take a pass over all of your boards with a meter (*including* the motherboard) for more shorts before you power up again. As Dwight (IIRC) has often pointed out, not all cap failures are evident with power off, so when I'm really concerned about a board, I have a three-voltage bench power supply with adjustable current-regulated outputs that I rig to an S-100 connector--shorts are immediately shown on the LEDs, and I can poke around without frying anything (more). Cost on ePay: just $30 plus shipping; peace of mind: priceless. FWIW, this has happened to both of my Horizons and all but one of my H-89s. No long-term ill effects to any. The answer I can never keep straight in my mind is, replace them with WHAT? Attention gurus: what is the preferred replacement material for these flaming miscreants? Patrick From jwest at classiccmp.org Mon Feb 16 13:21:16 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:29 2005 Subject: ESR Meters (was Re: Smoke on the Horizon...) References: Message-ID: <028801c3f4c2$0cc55e80$033310ac@kwcorp.com> I was thinking about buying an ESR meter to check caps, mainly large switching power supply caps. I was looking at the one at the top of the page at this website: http://members.ozemail.com.au/~bobpar/esrmeter.htm Does anyone have experience with these type of testers and can give any advice? Regards, Jay West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From coredump at gifford.co.uk Mon Feb 16 13:55:14 2004 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:29 2005 Subject: Smoke on the Horizon... oh s**t! In-Reply-To: <9726BA9DE867D51183B900B0D0AB85F8013E48CD@inetmail.atlantissi.com> References: <9726BA9DE867D51183B900B0D0AB85F8013E48CD@inetmail.atlantissi.com> Message-ID: <40312022.5050404@gifford.co.uk> Robert Maxwell wrote: > Then something (it used to be a tantalum cap) caught fire. > Unplug again. The former capacitor was the input filter on the 7812 ... Well, just in case you thought HP was infalliable, I've had this sort of thing happen on an HP 1980B scope. Tantalum capacitor, dead short across a 15V supply. The supply went into current-limit, and the scope just sat there. Oh, and I had another tantalum fail in a Arp Omni music synthesiser. There was one cap across each key, and when they failed, the note would sound continuously. So, I'd say it's a normal aging process for tantalums! -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From brad at heeltoe.com Mon Feb 16 14:10:51 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:29 2005 Subject: tu58 - reading off end of reel? Message-ID: <200402162010.i1GKApo13993@mwave.heeltoe.com> Anyone seen a TU58 read off the end of the reel? I replaced the capstan rollers in my TU58 today and tried to boot an VAX 730. It buzzed in reverse for about 5 seconds and then stopped. So naturally I tried again. And again. And again. (hey, if one aspirin is good, then 15 must be *really* good :-) Needless to say, it eventually read past EOF and the tape came off the takeup reel. Heh. There seems to be no EOT detection on these little drives. My guess is something is bad in my TU58 or it's not reading the tape properly (no doubt it can read backwards and is looking for some sort of block marker - yes?) Any hints? I've never booted a 730 before. (long ago I booted a 750 many times but I don't recall how it went - it "just worked" :-) And well, 780's - that was much more fun with all that clicking of the floppy drive :-) -brad From jpl15 at panix.com Mon Feb 16 14:29:22 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:29 2005 Subject: Smoke on the Horizon... oh s**t! In-Reply-To: <40312022.5050404@gifford.co.uk> References: <9726BA9DE867D51183B900B0D0AB85F8013E48CD@inetmail.atlantissi.com> <40312022.5050404@gifford.co.uk> Message-ID: OT but relevant: In the late 80s I worked for a well-known (but not having any 'D's in the name) manufacturer of theatre audio gear. We shipped an order to a multiplex in the Gold Coast of Australia. These devices were made up of several medium-sized boards, which were assembled at a board house and then tested, repaired, and burned-in by us prior to system assembly, final test and cal, and ship. All OK. It was our design practice to put a 1 Ohm resistor between the rails and most of the audio opamps, generally a 1/8W unit. Also they ICs were all decoupled properly with 1uF caps, from the IC Vss pins to ground. The order was for 10 screens of a 14-screen multiplex... we burned the systems in for 24 hours, gave them our blessing, and out they went. The contractor in Australia installed them, tested them, all ok. The theatre was set to open on a Monday evening, and sometime that Thursday (Aus time) morning, a generous quantity of the tantalum decoupling caps failed shorted across the bipolar 18V rails. Of course the 1-ohm resistors joined the fun by becoming incandescent and buring holes in the boards, thus filling the projection room with expensive, tragic smoke. Not being the first occurence (just the all-time worst) of this failure, we assembled 10 new systems by hand, tested 'em, and I flew them from LA to Sydney and installed them - got it done as patrons were seating themselves in the theatres. After staying the night to make sure that all available fireworks were spent, I flew back, having spent nearly 100 hours awake and very very busy. I don't even remember the return flight - I was asleep as sson as I sat down. We tried to sue the distributor of the parts, but they said "...yawn... yeah, right, manufacturer is in Taiwan... go ahead... see ya in ten years..." Thus ended the saga of the 'Blue Bombs', since that was their body color. Until they exploded. After that, just mentioning the word 'tantalum' could get you fired. Cheers John. From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Mon Feb 16 14:39:12 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:29 2005 Subject: Smoke on the Horizon... oh s**t! Message-ID: <0402162039.AA15322@ivan.Harhan.ORG> So here is my question then: if not tantalum, then what? I've always been told that aluminum electrolytic caps were cheap stuff that doesn't last and that tantalum caps are much better and (that was the claim) eternal. So I guess this is wrong. What is the truth then? Is it the other way around? Or are they both bad? And why are so many people, including on this list, saying "aluminum electrolytics are cheap crap, use tantalum"? And what are the *good* caps to use? MS From vcf at siconic.com Mon Feb 16 14:50:30 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:29 2005 Subject: A cable! A cable! Message-ID: My empire for a cable! I need a male DC-37 to female DC-37. Blast you, IOmega! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From pcw at mesanet.com Mon Feb 16 15:10:51 2004 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:29 2005 Subject: Smoke on the Horizon... oh s**t! In-Reply-To: <0402162039.AA15322@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: On Mon, 16 Feb 2004, Michael Sokolov wrote: > So here is my question then: if not tantalum, then what? > > I've always been told that aluminum electrolytic caps were cheap stuff that > doesn't last and that tantalum caps are much better and (that was the claim) > eternal. So I guess this is wrong. What is the truth then? Is it the other > way around? Or are they both bad? And why are so many people, including on > this list, saying "aluminum electrolytics are cheap crap, use tantalum"? > > And what are the *good* caps to use? > > MS > Must be something about the period when they were made or the manufacturer, we've used millions over the years and never had much trouble with them... Tantalums have lower ESR than (standard aluminum electrolytics) and last longer (dont dry out), plus they have a wider operating temperature range. Most aluminum electrolytics stop being capacitors around freezing. So my with experience with Tantalums has been good, I even have some 50's vintage ones that work fine (Tantalum foil). Peter Wallace Mesa Electronics From arcarlini at iee.org Mon Feb 16 15:12:40 2004 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:29 2005 Subject: Memory In-Reply-To: <000801c3f4a8$eb980f00$2101a8c0@compaq> Message-ID: <002901c3f4d1$9d220320$5b01a8c0@athlon> > I?m try to find information on DEC memory M7551 > 5017547-01-D1-P2. Do you have it. You can find some (but not much) information in Micronote #28 (here: http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/academic/computer-science/history/pdp-11/hard ware/micronotes/numerical). Neither the user manual (EK-MSV1Q-UG) nor the FMPS (MP01931) seem to be available online. Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From dwight.elvey at amd.com Mon Feb 16 15:22:05 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:29 2005 Subject: Smoke on the Horizon... oh s**t! Message-ID: <200402162122.NAA15862@clulw009.amd.com> Hi The problem is that they are the best for some applications. The board space to use electrolytics is prohibitive. Even electrolytics can be an issue. There was the formula snafu a couple years ago for the electrolyte. I always replace old tantalums with similar looking ones. I just expect them to fail and don't otherwise worry about it. Most regulators can handle a few minutes of short. Dwight >From: msokolov@ivan.harhan.org > >So here is my question then: if not tantalum, then what? > >I've always been told that aluminum electrolytic caps were cheap stuff that >doesn't last and that tantalum caps are much better and (that was the claim) >eternal. So I guess this is wrong. What is the truth then? Is it the other >way around? Or are they both bad? And why are so many people, including on >this list, saying "aluminum electrolytics are cheap crap, use tantalum"? > >And what are the *good* caps to use? > >MS > From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Mon Feb 16 16:46:40 2004 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:29 2005 Subject: [OT] Speaking of explosion... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <50a9d9814c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> In message "David V. Corbin" wrote: > >>> It left me wondering about advertant releases of smoke. > > See various products from Dallas SemiConductor. While they do not advertise > "smoke release", there are quite a few products with Self Destruct. You mean the SecureMicro and Soft Microcontroller devices? The SDI (Self Destruct Input) just wipes the encryption key and interrupt vector RAMs if it gets triggered. The idea is you have a few microswitches inside a device's casing, all wired up to SDI. If one of the microswitches opens - bye bye code - chip reprogram time. The really fun bit is, once SDI gets tripped, you can't stop the RAM getting wiped. Much fun :) Later. -- Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, philpem@dsl.pipex.com | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice, http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI ... This Tagline is for sale. Call 1-800-TAG-THIS! From dvcorbin at optonline.net Mon Feb 16 17:24:21 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:29 2005 Subject: Interesting to see...PDP-8/e In-Reply-To: <200402162122.NAA15862@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: Just spotted an EMPTY PDP-8/e chassis on e-Bay. Buy it now for $900. Possibly not a bad price if you have a complement of cards, but an expensive was if you are just going to start a restoration...... http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1247&item=2788390481 From jrkeys at concentric.net Mon Feb 16 17:58:01 2004 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:29 2005 Subject: Heathkit Trainer Kit on eBAY Message-ID: <012b01c3f4e8$b7711f60$8a406b43@66067007> This is at $437 with 3 hours to go. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2786040034 From jpero at sympatico.ca Mon Feb 16 14:01:41 2004 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:29 2005 Subject: ESR Meters (was Re: Smoke on the Horizon...) In-Reply-To: <028801c3f4c2$0cc55e80$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <20040217005930.HDWE20179.tomts20-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > I was thinking about buying an ESR meter to check caps, mainly large > switching power supply caps. I was looking at the one at the top of the page > at this website: > > http://members.ozemail.com.au/~bobpar/esrmeter.htm > > Does anyone have experience with these type of testers and can give any > advice? YES. I own two. Replacement parts especially that microcontroller is available from few shops that sells these Bob Parker's ESR meters. Install the protector kit, again available. I blew that micro on an charged cap and so simply got two, one to replace, one as spare, Was very inexpensively. One at my work used daily (fixing TVs & projectors) and other one at home. Bought first one almost 5 years ago, second one last year. Worth it and I MEAN IT. Useful for low resistance measurements: 0.01 to 99 ohms & as well as ESR checks for electrolytics. Be noted that ESR chart is appoximate since it was taken from old datasheets years prior. Works very well in circuit, if not certain, unsolder one leg, test again. That's simple. Bob Parker also designed and several places sells kit or built form of an flyback transformer ringer test. Oh, ESR varies with temp too. That also explains why some customers said their stuff was acting up till it warmed up enough pointing to barely good caps warming up that brings down ESR enough to function. At worst case ESR or above that max = bad, below this or lowest ESR is GOOD. And not all caps are same, some are good at specific uses even they're all electrolyics. Cheers, Wizard > Jay West > From dvcorbin at optonline.net Mon Feb 16 20:31:05 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:29 2005 Subject: Interesting to see...PDP-8/e In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Sorry for a bad URL, the item number is 2788390481 To make matters more interesting another seller just posted a full (I believe) complement of cards!!!!! AARGGH! >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org >>> [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of David V. Corbin >>> Sent: Monday, February 16, 2004 6:24 PM >>> To: 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts' >>> Subject: Interesting to see...PDP-8/e >>> >>> Just spotted an EMPTY PDP-8/e chassis on e-Bay. Buy it now for $900. >>> Possibly not a bad price if you have a complement of cards, >>> but an expensive was if you are just going to start a >>> restoration...... >>> >>> >>> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1247& >>> item=2788390481 >>> >>> From esharpe at uswest.net Mon Feb 16 21:13:43 2004 From: esharpe at uswest.net (ed sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:29 2005 Subject: Heathkit Trainer Kit on eBAY References: <012b01c3f4e8$b7711f60$8a406b43@66067007> Message-ID: <001901c3f504$0c5dbd10$976a6e44@SONYDIGITALED> yikes! time to up the museum's insurance! ed! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Keys" To: "cctalk@classiccmp" Sent: Monday, February 16, 2004 4:58 PM Subject: Heathkit Trainer Kit on eBAY > This is at $437 with 3 hours to go. > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2786040034 > > From artem_55555 at yahoo.com Mon Feb 16 15:41:35 2004 From: artem_55555 at yahoo.com (artem kovalenko) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:29 2005 Subject: RSX11m.dsk needed Message-ID: <20040216214135.6437.qmail@web60706.mail.yahoo.com> Dear All: Could you advise me on where I can get the above to use for E11? Thank you. Artem Kovalenko. artem_55555@yahoo.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html From holger.veit at ais.fhg.de Mon Feb 16 14:36:03 2004 From: holger.veit at ais.fhg.de (Holger Veit) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:29 2005 Subject: Smoke on the Horizon... oh s**t! In-Reply-To: <9726BA9DE867D51183B900B0D0AB85F8013E48CD@inetmail.atlantissi.com>; from RMaxwell@atlantissi.com on Mon, Feb 16, 2004 at 11:31:48AM -0500 References: <9726BA9DE867D51183B900B0D0AB85F8013E48CD@inetmail.atlantissi.com> Message-ID: <20040216213603.A25854@ct-mail.citytraffic.de> On Mon, Feb 16, 2004 at 11:31:48AM -0500, Robert Maxwell wrote: [...] > Now, the questions: what the hell happened? Failures of tantalums (I've > witnessed) are usually due to reversed polarity: not only are these Not only reversed polarity, but also aging. > particular parts long-term residents of the boards, but the unregulated +12V > supply is the highest DC voltage in the machine - how did the - terminal (DC > Ground) become more positive than the +? How did that happen on two S-100 > cards when the main supply, motherboard and floppy drive show no problem? > Has any other Horizon (or S-100) keeper experienced anything like this? > Next, the problems: I've got replacement regulators and capacitors, but > what if the damage spread to the DRAMS (16Kx1, qty. 36) and the boot EPROM > (2708, labelled HGT E000)? If I need them, does anybody have spare > memories, or a copy of the EPROM image? I can even rig a 2716 (one > supply... yay!) as long as I know what belongs inside. The three-voltage circuits usually become defective when the lowest voltage is missing (-5V) while the others are applied (+5V, +12V). The preferred power-up sequence is: -5V, +5V, +12V. Since the defect has blown just the +12V supply, chances are good that nothing bad happened, and the DRAMs as well as the 2708s are still okay. But you should be aware that likely the same that happened to the 12V tantals might also happen to the +-5V regulator circuits (although less likely due to lower voltage). It's a good idea to replace the various tantal and electrolyte caps with new ones. Capacitors older than 10 years will likely lose their capacity or voltage tolerance due to aging of the dielectrical insulation. Holger From waltje at pdp11.nl Tue Feb 17 04:20:12 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:29 2005 Subject: RSX11m.dsk needed In-Reply-To: <20040216214135.6437.qmail@web60706.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 16 Feb 2004, artem kovalenko wrote: > Dear All: > > Could you advise me on where I can get the above to > use for E11? I'd try Mentec, at www.mentec.com. Cheers, Fred From holger.veit at ais.fhg.de Tue Feb 17 04:38:53 2004 From: holger.veit at ais.fhg.de (Holger Veit) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:29 2005 Subject: Smoke on the Horizon... oh s**t! In-Reply-To: <0402162039.AA15322@ivan.Harhan.ORG>; from msokolov@ivan.Harhan.ORG on Mon, Feb 16, 2004 at 12:39:12PM -0800 References: <0402162039.AA15322@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: <20040217113853.A8377@ct-mail.citytraffic.de> On Mon, Feb 16, 2004 at 12:39:12PM -0800, Michael Sokolov wrote: > So here is my question then: if not tantalum, then what? Why not tantalum? Take into consideration that nothing is for eternity, whatever you build in. For this particular application, they are appropriate, and "The Right Thing"(tm). > I've always been told that aluminum electrolytic caps were cheap stuff that > doesn't last and that tantalum caps are much better and (that was the claim) > eternal. So I guess this is wrong. What is the truth then? Is it the other This claim has been wrong all the time, and will be in the future as well. It is by nothing founded on technical issues (and can't be); it is just opinion and perhaps techno-religion. Don't expect truth. But BTW, there has been some technical improvements to electronic components since the days of the NorthStar. More than 20 years *is* somehow eternity for certain electronic components. Replace the capacitors in question with modern low-ESR types *designed especially for use in power supplies*. This will give you some more years - for that particular kind of failure - but it certainly won't give you any warranty that the system doesn't suffer another failure. > way around? Or are they both bad? And why are so many people, including on > this list, saying "aluminum electrolytics are cheap crap, use tantalum"? Price shouldn't be an issue for conserving this old stuff. There is more than the question of aluminum caps vs. tantalum ones - that's why the manufacturers offer such a large variety of capacitors, and resistors, and semiconductors. > And what are the *good* caps to use? Sorry, any recommendation will be useless here, as you might not find the exact component (and slight variations do matter), and depend on the circuitry, and the environment. You just touched the area of correct design work of electrical circuits. If you expect "eternity" you cannot rely on any cookbook recipe if you have no clue what you do. Holger From nickpug at hotmail.com Tue Feb 17 08:23:21 2004 From: nickpug at hotmail.com (nick pug) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:29 2005 Subject: sol-20's Message-ID: This is what I have and will be selling in the near future. Two sol-20's both working perfectly in original condition. One is fully loaded with everything you could get from the factory(64k, networking board, ect). The other has either 4k or 16k (?) it acted as the others slave and does not have all the boards. Both have original monitors. I have all the documentation from the manuals to copy's of receipts, and original software (cp/m, cbasic). A micropolis 1054 5 inch 4 stack of drives which I still need to test just to be sure it still works( I cannot even find a reference to them on the online). And one decwriter with the form feed option and a built in keyboard. So you could network all this stuff and have three separate inputs (it is pretty cool). I have not decided how to auction them off yet (as a collection or individually). Any who that's what I got so tell me what you think if any one wants a preemptive bid let me know. thanks nIcK nickpug@hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Say “good-bye” to spam, viruses and pop-ups with MSN Premium -- free trial offer! http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200359ave/direct/01/ From holger.veit at ais.fhg.de Tue Feb 17 10:07:45 2004 From: holger.veit at ais.fhg.de (Holger Veit) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:29 2005 Subject: RSX11m.dsk needed In-Reply-To: ; from waltje@pdp11.nl on Tue, Feb 17, 2004 at 11:20:12AM +0100 References: <20040216214135.6437.qmail@web60706.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20040217170745.A15017@ct-mail.citytraffic.de> On Tue, Feb 17, 2004 at 11:20:12AM +0100, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > On Mon, 16 Feb 2004, artem kovalenko wrote: > > > Dear All: > > > > Could you advise me on where I can get the above to > > use for E11? > I'd try Mentec, at www.mentec.com. ... but don't hold your breath on getting an e-mail reply at all. Maybe if you claim to be a top100 company and would like to equip your 1000000 PCs with E11 emulators and need the appropriate media and licenses, this might be different. Holger From nickpug at hotmail.com Tue Feb 17 09:30:52 2004 From: nickpug at hotmail.com (nick pug) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:29 2005 Subject: sol-20'2 Message-ID: ps I am in Eastern Pa. nIcK _________________________________________________________________ Stay informed on Election 2004 and the race to Super Tuesday. http://special.msn.com/msn/election2004.armx From cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net Tue Feb 17 10:29:58 2004 From: cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:29 2005 Subject: RSX11m.dsk needed In-Reply-To: <20040217170745.A15017@ct-mail.citytraffic.de> References: <20040216214135.6437.qmail@web60706.mail.yahoo.com> <20040217170745.A15017@ct-mail.citytraffic.de> Message-ID: <1077035397.12697.5.camel@morden.cc.vt.edu> On Tue, 2004-02-17 at 11:07, Holger Veit wrote: > ... but don't hold your breath on getting an e-mail reply at all. > > Maybe if you claim to be a top100 company and would like to equip > your 1000000 PCs with E11 emulators and need the appropriate media > and licenses, this might be different. > Good point. I sent an email to mentec a long time ago asking about purchasing RSTS 10.1. Never ever got a response. Tried to call them once. Was informed that the sales guy was out of the office and would call me back. He never did. -- Christopher L McNabb Tel: 540 231 7554 Operating Systems Analyst Email: cmcnabb@vt.edu Virginia Tech ICBM: 37.205622N 80.414595W GMRS: WPSR255 ARS: N2UX Grid Sq: EM97SD From patrick at evocative.com Tue Feb 17 11:09:50 2004 From: patrick at evocative.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:29 2005 Subject: OT: Paging James Willing In-Reply-To: <.206.184.248.70.1074275712.squirrel@login.pegasus.lunarpages.com> Message-ID: Has anyone had any luck getting a rise out of James at the address elow? --Patrick > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of > classiccmp@vintage-computer.com > Sent: Friday, January 16, 2004 9:55 AM > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: OT: Paging James Willing > > > > > > It's been a few months now.. Did anyone have any luck contacting him > > or recovering anything they bought? > > > > I've been in touch with him. According to his last email he's "finally > gotten his head above ground" so hopefully unshipped items will soon ship. > > I ended up sending him shipping tags to get mine on a truck. > > I also provided him with an email address and I've asked if I can > disseminate it. If he doesn't mind I'll share it. He's only able to do > web-mail from the library nowadays, though. . . > > Erik Klein > www.vintage-computer.com > www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum > The Vintage Computer Forum > From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Tue Feb 17 11:32:22 2004 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:29 2005 Subject: OT: Paging James Willing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <053d01c3f57c$0808f360$947ba8c0@p933> I know he's checking the email address I gave him (jimwilling@vintage-computer.com) albeit infrequently. >From what he said he doesn't currently have an ISP so he's checking mail from the library when he can. I know that's small consolation, but hopefully with a bit more patience and prodding Jim will ship the stuff he's sold. . . Erik Klein www.vintage-computer.com www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum The Vintage Computer Forum -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Patrick Rigney Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2004 9:10 AM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: RE: OT: Paging James Willing Has anyone had any luck getting a rise out of James at the address elow? --Patrick From pat at computer-refuge.org Tue Feb 17 11:52:14 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:29 2005 Subject: Help needed identifying boards In-Reply-To: <200402160234.05689.pat@computer-refuge.org> References: <200402160234.05689.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: <200402171252.14398.pat@computer-refuge.org> So does this mean no one has a clue what any of these are?... On Monday 16 February 2004 02:34, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > I've got a whole bunch of boards that fall into a couple of different > "categories" of what they look like. I've got a few different types > of HP boards and some "unlabelled manufacturer" boards (the DC1127 > pictures). Note that I've probably got better looking boards on > average than these; these are just the ones off the top of the pile > that were easy to bring inside. > > The pictures are up at: > http://computer-refuge.org/classiccmp/pics040216/ > > I'm going to guess the HP boards are labelled by the part number of > the machine they go in; the 09885 are for a 9885 and the 02116 are > for a 2116? And before you go asking me for the boards, stop. I'm > not going to do anything with them until I know what they are. : ) > > Pat Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Feb 17 12:18:00 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:29 2005 Subject: Help needed identifying boards In-Reply-To: <200402171252.14398.pat@computer-refuge.org> References: <200402160234.05689.pat@computer-refuge.org> <200402160234.05689.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040217131800.008776a0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 12:52 PM 2/17/04 -0500, you wrote: >So does this mean no one has a clue what any of these are?... Not exactly. looks like a HP 3000 board but the 9895 PN >>indicates<< that it's for the HP 9895 disk drive. The "FDU" might mean Floppy Disk Unit so it tends to support that too. and appear to be boards for a HP 1000 computer. You can check the PNs against the manual on Al's site. Are there any mrkings on the pull tabs of those two cards? No idea on the 1127 boards. > >On Monday 16 February 2004 02:34, Patrick Finnegan wrote: >> I've got a whole bunch of boards that fall into a couple of different >> "categories" of what they look like. I've got a few different types >> of HP boards and some "unlabelled manufacturer" boards (the DC1127 >> pictures). Note that I've probably got better looking boards on >> average than these; these are just the ones off the top of the pile >> that were easy to bring inside. >> >> The pictures are up at: >> http://computer-refuge.org/classiccmp/pics040216/ >> >> I'm going to guess the HP boards are labelled by the part number of >> the machine they go in; the 09885 are for a 9885 and the 02116 are >> for a 2116? And before you go asking me for the boards, stop. I'm >> not going to do anything with them until I know what they are. : ) >> >> Pat > >Pat >-- >Purdue University ITAP/RCS >Information Technology at Purdue >Research Computing and Storage >http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ > From jpl15 at panix.com Tue Feb 17 12:24:24 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:30 2005 Subject: Help needed identifying boards In-Reply-To: <200402171252.14398.pat@computer-refuge.org> References: <200402160234.05689.pat@computer-refuge.org> <200402171252.14398.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 17 Feb 2004, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > So does this mean no one has a clue what any of these are?... Let's see, Mr. Holmes.... The DC1127 is clearly marked (fuzzy photos notwithstanding) "Dual 8 Bit Latch" on it's reverse. Might be a dual 8-bit latch of some kind... The 66500 board says 'FDU Control' - Fixed Disk Unit? it has addr and write enable switches... looks like a late 70s - early 80s era HP disc I/O - for embedded test - network analyzers - ??? The rest of the photos are so badly lit and out of focus that I can't make out the designations - on the 6119 board - there is a crystal (the oblong tin can) in the upper left corner - above that is some writing - what does it say? Might be some treasures in here - also might be some gold scrap - some of the boards have the 3-RU form factor HP used in a lot of their early-digital era bench gear... Cheers John From fmc at reanimators.org Tue Feb 17 12:24:25 2004 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:30 2005 Subject: Help needed identifying boards In-Reply-To: <200402171252.14398.pat@computer-refuge.org> (Patrick Finnegan's message of "Tue, 17 Feb 2004 12:52:14 -0500") References: <200402160234.05689.pat@computer-refuge.org> <200402171252.14398.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: <200402171824.i1HIOPUf075468@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Patrick Finnegan wrote: > So does this mean no one has a clue what any of these are?... No definite information. Sorry, don't have a lot of time to do research right now. Your 02116 board looks like it is made to fit a 21xx of some sort. 9885 is a single 8" floppy drive in a box, and came in two flavors, 9885M being "master" with controller and able to have up to three 9885S "slave" drives connected. 9895 is a box with room for two 8" floppy drives, and I think had an HP-IB interface so would have an internal floppy-disk controller. -Frank McConnell From pat at computer-refuge.org Tue Feb 17 12:40:50 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:30 2005 Subject: Help needed identifying boards In-Reply-To: References: <200402160234.05689.pat@computer-refuge.org> <200402171252.14398.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: <200402171340.50361.pat@computer-refuge.org> On Tuesday 17 February 2004 13:24, John Lawson wrote: > On Tue, 17 Feb 2004, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > > So does this mean no one has a clue what any of these are?... > > Let's see, Mr. Holmes.... > > The DC1127 is clearly marked (fuzzy photos notwithstanding) "Dual 8 > Bit Latch" on it's reverse. > > Might be a dual 8-bit latch of some kind... Thanks, but I think I've figured out that much already, Dr. Watson. I'd like to know *who* might have made or used them... I'm somewhat tempted to use some of those to build something out of, since the connector is a 2x22 pin 0.156" spacing edge, which connectors are 'avalaible' for. As far as fuzziness goes, I'm going to blame my camera... it seems to suck for close-up/macro shots. If I weren't so lazy, I probably could hook up the scanner and put these on it. > The 66500 board says 'FDU Control' - Fixed Disk Unit? it has addr > and write enable switches... looks like a late 70s - early 80s era > HP disc I/O - for embedded test - network analyzers - ??? > > > The rest of the photos are so badly lit and out of focus that I > can't make out the designations - on the 6119 board - there is a > crystal (the oblong tin can) in the upper left corner - above that is > some writing - what does it say? It's the text in the file name: (HP logo) 02116-6119 H 741 6 On the handles are "TIME BASE GEN" and "A". For the other similarly shaped card (12604-600001), there's labels stuck near the part number that say "1046A" and "03142" and on one of the handles is printed "HP DATA". > Might be some treasures in here - also might be some gold scrap - > some of the boards have the 3-RU form factor HP used in a lot of > their early-digital era bench gear... Hmm. Thanks, Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ From fmc at reanimators.org Tue Feb 17 12:29:14 2004 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:30 2005 Subject: Smoke on the Horizon... oh s**t! In-Reply-To: (Vintage Computer Festival's message of "Mon, 16 Feb 2004 08:47:41 -0800 (PST)") References: Message-ID: <200402171829.i1HITFj8075777@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > Frank McConnell has a terrific photo of a tantalum blowing on a Sol-20 I was present but someone else had the camera. Stan Sieler maybe? And I thought it was a N* Horizon too. Or maybe I'm confusing it with the one I blew out some tantalum caps in. -Frank McConnell From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Tue Feb 17 13:34:08 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:30 2005 Subject: VT420 experiment needed Message-ID: <0402171934.AA16147@ivan.Harhan.ORG> I'm writing a software module that turns a DEC LK201 keyboard into an IFCTF keyboard (one that generates ASCII/ISO codes and sequences) and among other features supported on LK201 in various DEC products I want to implement hex compose on the numeric keypad like on VT420. The problem is, some fine details of how it should work are unclear and I don't have a VT420 to experiment on, only VT320 and VT340 which don't have hex compose. I'm wondering if someone on this list has a VT420 and could test something for me. First, what happens if you press keypad Enter or keypad '.' in a compose sequence? I can think of 3 reasonable ways the firmware can handle this: * Do what it does for Tab, Return, arrow and functions keys in a compose sequence, i.e., cancel the compose sequence and let the pressed key do its normal non-compose action. * Ignore the key (suppress the keyclick) and remain in the compose sequence in the same state. * Store the invalid key in the compose sequence accumulator and proceed to the next character of the sequence. Then at the end of the compose sequence complain with a warning bell about the invalid sequence. Can someone with a VT420 please try this and see which of the above (or something else altogether) does the firmware do? Also what happens if you mix a main keypad key and a numeric keypad key in a compose sequence? MS P.S. Reverse-engineering state machines is fun, isn't it? From toresbe at ifi.uio.no Tue Feb 17 12:30:29 2004 From: toresbe at ifi.uio.no (Tore S Bekkedal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:30 2005 Subject: tu58 - reading off end of reel? Message-ID: <001101c3f584$2b6da500$1e9dfea9@ra3> Well, might not help much, but no, there was no EOT detection. The TU55's on 'my' PDP-7 would often hit EOT while doing DECsys formatting. -tsb From pkoning at equallogic.com Tue Feb 17 14:24:21 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:30 2005 Subject: tu58 - reading off end of reel? References: <001101c3f584$2b6da500$1e9dfea9@ra3> Message-ID: <16434.30837.321049.365800@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Tore" == Tore S Bekkedal writes: Tore> Well, might not help much, but no, there was no EOT Tore> detection. The TU55's on 'my' PDP-7 would often hit EOT while Tore> doing DECsys formatting. But a TU55 has NOTHING in common with a TU58. Yes, DEC called the TU58 "DECtape-2" but that's just an attempt to let the TU58 benefit -- undeservedly so! -- from the excellent reputation of the real DECtape. In reality, DECtape is an excellent device and the TU58 is a piece of junk. paul From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Tue Feb 17 14:31:26 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:30 2005 Subject: VT420 experiment needed In-Reply-To: <0402171934.AA16147@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: > hex compose. I'm wondering if someone on this list has a > VT420 and could test something for me. Sitting next to one :) > First, what happens if you press keypad Enter or keypad '.' > in a compose sequence? I can think of 3 reasonable ways the > firmware can handle this: Keypad Enter just ends the compose sequence, '.' does also but displays the dot. Both click. > Also what happens if you mix a main keypad key and a numeric > keypad key in a compose sequence? Interesting. I've always had my terminals set to 7 bit space parity - software needs from many moons ago - but setting it to 8N shows some interesting things going on with 'display controls' enabled: Compose key plus keypad: 00 = 11 = nothing 22 = " 33 = 3 44 = D 55 = U 66 = f 77 = w 88 = HTS (horizontal tab stop?) 99 = '99' stepped like a fraction. Mixing keypad and keyboard keys results in a beep and end of sequence. With parity set to 7S I get slightly different results, but then a lot of compose sequences don't work with 7S. Anything else just give me a shout :) -- Adrian/Witchy Owner & Webmaster, Binary Dinosaurs www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From uban at ubanproductions.com Tue Feb 17 14:57:12 2004 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:30 2005 Subject: 50Hz vs 60Hz fixed drive speed ? Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20040217145249.0216eeb0@mail.ubanproductions.com> A friend and I were discussing 8" floppy drives recently, in particular that they often have two pulley sizes so that the rotational speed is 360rpm regardless of 50Hz or 60Hz operation, assuming that they are setup properly. The question then turned to whether or not a fixed hard drive would typically be designed in a similar fashion, such that the spindle would rotate at the same number of RPM when configured for 50Hz or 60Hz operation, or if they did not worry about the speed differences as the media was not removable? Of course todays modern hard drives are driven with DC motors, so they are not affected by the A/C frequency differences. Does anyone know what manufacturers routinely did on this account? --tnx --tom From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Tue Feb 17 14:56:32 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:30 2005 Subject: VT420 experiment needed In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200402172110.QAA17219@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > 00 = To be expected. > 11 = nothing That's ^Q, DC1. Probably being taken as XON. > 22 = " > 33 = 3 > 44 = D > 55 = U > 66 = f > 77 = w No surprises there. > 88 = HTS (horizontal tab stop?) 88 is HTS, yes - but it means "Horizontal Tabulation Set" (not "Stop") according to my X3.64 notes. > 99 = '99' stepped like a fraction. My notes show 99 as being reserved for future standardization according to X3.64; I'm not surprised it doesn't do anything interesting. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Tue Feb 17 15:10:42 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:30 2005 Subject: VT420 experiment needed Message-ID: <0402172110.AA16294@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Witchy wrote: > Keypad Enter just ends the compose sequence, So after canceling the compose, it does NOT transmit the normal code(s) for keypad Enter (CR, CR LF, or SS3 M)? Are you sure? Maybe you were testing in a mode where it sent CR which was invisible? Could you try again with the terminal set to local mode, display controls? According to the docs (and actual behaviour on VT320) whenever you press a key outside "normal" in a compose sequence, it cancels the compose and then the key does its normal action. The only exception is Delete, which is the key you should press to get out of compose mode you entered unintentionally. > Interesting. I've always had my terminals set to 7 bit space parity - > software needs from many moons ago I used to use the VT100 mode (and still do on console/test terminals) which has the same effect of forcing a 7-bit only Universe. In spring of last year I migrated to using an 8-bit environment on the terminal on my desk in the command room (one I'm typing on right now) to support Russian. Of course DEC built its classic hardware during the Cold War and didn't support Russian, but I've hacked it in. I use a downline-loaded 96-character KOI8-E set for my GR set on output, and since I don't have the guts to tear the VT apart, get to its firmware ROM, and Russify the keyboard input firmware, I have instead implemented a hack in the Berkeley UNIX tty driver to enter Russian in KOI-8 from the VT320 keyboard. > - but setting it to 8N shows some > interesting things going on with 'display controls' enabled: Yup, it's a whole new exciting 8-bit world out there. I was quite excited when I took a VT3xx out of VT100 mode and put it in its native mode for the first time. > Compose key plus keypad: > > 00 = This is the hexadecimal compose feature. The keys of the numeric keypad become hex digits in compose mode. 0-9 are themselves, PF1-PF4 are A-D, '-' is E, and ',' is F. You can enter any 8-bit character from 00 to FF as two hex digits. > 11 = nothing Actually it's XON (^Q), though of course it's normally unseen. > 22 = " > 33 = 3 > 44 = D > 55 = U > 66 = f > 77 = w These are just ASCII. > 88 = HTS (horizontal tab stop?) > 99 = '99' stepped like a fraction. C1 high control characters. According to the manual the terminal only allows you to enter them if it's set for 8-bit controls in Setup. If it's set for 7-bit controls, the manual says that C1 chars entered through hex compose will be turned into equivalent 7-bit escape sequences. Can you test (using local mode, display controls) whether this is actually true? > Mixing keypad and keyboard keys results in a beep and end of sequence. OK, the reasonable behaviour, just as I was going to implement in my code. > With > parity set to 7S I get slightly different results, but then a lot of compose > sequences don't work with 7S. Well, yeah, Compose is basically for entering 8-bit characters. The standard ASCII main keypad supports all 128 possible 7-bit ASCII characters, so you should never need Compose or anything else for 7-bit ASCII, unless of course you are one of those strange people who configure their LK201s for some non-ASCII national mode. MS From pkoning at equallogic.com Tue Feb 17 15:12:52 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:30 2005 Subject: 50Hz vs 60Hz fixed drive speed ? References: <5.2.0.9.0.20040217145249.0216eeb0@mail.ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <16434.33748.88721.380685@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Tom" == Tom Uban writes: Tom> A friend and I were discussing 8" floppy drives recently, in Tom> particular that they often have two pulley sizes so that the Tom> rotational speed is 360rpm regardless of 50Hz or 60Hz operation, Tom> assuming that they are setup properly. Tom> The question then turned to whether or not a fixed hard drive Tom> would typically be designed in a similar fashion, such that the Tom> spindle would rotate at the same number of RPM when configured Tom> for 50Hz or 60Hz operation, or if they did not worry about the Tom> speed differences as the media was not removable? Looking at some DEC drives in the Peripherals Handbook.... the RS04 fixed disk (head per track) drive spins slower with 50 Hz power. Various removable pack drives (RP04, RK03, RP03) all show a single RPM spec but two models, one 50Hz, one 60Hz. Of course, voltage is another consideration. A Maintenance manual would give more detail about whether there really are two different pulleys or the like, but the data suggest that this is indeed the case for the removable drives. paul From jrkeys at concentric.net Tue Feb 17 15:17:41 2004 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:30 2005 Subject: Two Strange Finds Today at Auction Message-ID: <005101c3f59b$7b799f10$a6406b43@66067007> Well today I got a pallet with 2 strange items on it: One was a AS/400 Advanced Type 9402 with all it's cables and a internal QIC 2GB tape drive. The second item was a Hitachi Color TV Camera with a zoom lens by Fujinon mounted on it. This a large unit dated as mfg'd in Oct 1979. There were several other items on the pallet but nothing of interest but for $5 I can't complain. From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue Feb 17 15:10:11 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:30 2005 Subject: 50Hz vs 60Hz fixed drive speed ? References: <5.2.0.9.0.20040217145249.0216eeb0@mail.ubanproductions.com> <16434.33748.88721.380685@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <010501c3f59a$6e4525e0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> at least on the limited number of HP drives I've worked on, it's always a different hub pully for 50hz vs. 60hz. Jay ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Koning" To: Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2004 3:12 PM Subject: Re: 50Hz vs 60Hz fixed drive speed ? > >>>>> "Tom" == Tom Uban writes: > > Tom> A friend and I were discussing 8" floppy drives recently, in > Tom> particular that they often have two pulley sizes so that the > Tom> rotational speed is 360rpm regardless of 50Hz or 60Hz operation, > Tom> assuming that they are setup properly. > > Tom> The question then turned to whether or not a fixed hard drive > Tom> would typically be designed in a similar fashion, such that the > Tom> spindle would rotate at the same number of RPM when configured > Tom> for 50Hz or 60Hz operation, or if they did not worry about the > Tom> speed differences as the media was not removable? > > Looking at some DEC drives in the Peripherals Handbook.... the RS04 > fixed disk (head per track) drive spins slower with 50 Hz power. > Various removable pack drives (RP04, RK03, RP03) all show a single RPM > spec but two models, one 50Hz, one 60Hz. Of course, voltage is > another consideration. > > A Maintenance manual would give more detail about whether there really > are two different pulleys or the like, but the data suggest that this > is indeed the case for the removable drives. > > paul > > > --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From ghldbrd at ccp.com Tue Feb 17 15:13:32 2004 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (ghldbrd@ccp.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:30 2005 Subject: 50Hz vs 60Hz fixed drive speed ? In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20040217145249.0216eeb0@mail.ubanproductions.com> References: <5.2.0.9.0.20040217145249.0216eeb0@mail.ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <3699.65.123.179.135.1077052412.squirrel@webmail.ccp.com> Hard drives are almost always driven by a DC motor (off the +12v line). There is a speed servo thatt derrives its proper feedback from the servo information formatted into the disk. Remember the only AC in a PC today is the input bridge/caps that makes the DC voltage that the switch transistor or FET turns into AC for the power transformer. That is how they do autoranging, and they will work with just about any kind of input AC. The only problesm you have with 60 vs 50 Hz power is with synchronous motors. This is a BIG problem with Hammond tonewheel organs shipped from the US overseas to 50 Hz power. Gary Hildebrand St. Joseph, MO > A friend and I were discussing 8" floppy drives recently, in particular > that they often have two pulley sizes so that the rotational speed is > 360rpm regardless of 50Hz or 60Hz operation, assuming that they are > setup properly. > > The question then turned to whether or not a fixed hard drive would > typically be designed in a similar fashion, such that the spindle > would rotate at the same number of RPM when configured for 50Hz or > 60Hz operation, or if they did not worry about the speed differences > as the media was not removable? > > Of course todays modern hard drives are driven with DC motors, so > they are not affected by the A/C frequency differences. > > Does anyone know what manufacturers routinely did on this account? > > --tnx > --tom > > From patrick at evocative.com Tue Feb 17 15:23:55 2004 From: patrick at evocative.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:30 2005 Subject: [OT] HP 1630 Manual? Message-ID: Does anyone have an electronic copy of the operator's manual for an HP 1630 logic analyzer (specifically 1630G, but I think any of the series will be pretty much the same). TIA! --Patrick From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Feb 17 15:19:52 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:30 2005 Subject: Help needed identifying boards In-Reply-To: <200402171824.i1HIOPUf075468@daemonweed.reanimators.org> References: <200402171252.14398.pat@computer-refuge.org> <200402160234.05689.pat@computer-refuge.org> <200402171252.14398.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040217161952.00843100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 10:24 AM 2/17/04 -0800, Frank McConnell wrote: >Patrick Finnegan wrote: >> So does this mean no one has a clue what any of these are?... > >No definite information. Sorry, don't have a lot of time to do >research right now. > >Your 02116 board looks like it is made to fit a 21xx of some sort. > >9885 is a single 8" floppy drive in a box, and came in two flavors, >9885M being "master" with controller and able to have up to three >9885S "slave" drives connected. Yeap. It was probably HP's first 8" floppy disk drive. It used SS disks and only held about 270k per disk. It used a 16 bit parallel interface. > >9895 is a box with room for two 8" floppy drives, and I think had an >HP-IB interface so would have an internal floppy-disk controller. Yeap, the 9895 replaced the 9885. It used DSDD disks and held about 1.4 Mb per disk IIRC and it was HP-IB. Joe > >-Frank McConnell > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Feb 17 15:24:44 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:30 2005 Subject: Help needed identifying boards In-Reply-To: <200402171340.50361.pat@computer-refuge.org> References: <200402160234.05689.pat@computer-refuge.org> <200402171252.14398.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040217162444.00863bf0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 01:40 PM 2/17/04 -0500, you wrote: >On Tuesday 17 February 2004 13:24, John Lawson wrote: >> On Tue, 17 Feb 2004, Patrick Finnegan wrote: >> > So does this mean no one has a clue what any of these are?... >> >> Let's see, Mr. Holmes.... >> >> The DC1127 is clearly marked (fuzzy photos notwithstanding) "Dual 8 >> Bit Latch" on it's reverse. >> >> Might be a dual 8-bit latch of some kind... > >Thanks, but I think I've figured out that much already, Dr. Watson. I'd >like to know *who* might have made or used them... I'm somewhat >tempted to use some of those to build something out of, since the >connector is a 2x22 pin 0.156" spacing edge, which connectors are >'avalaible' for. > >As far as fuzziness goes, I'm going to blame my camera... it seems to >suck for close-up/macro shots. If I weren't so lazy, I probably could >hook up the scanner and put these on it. > >> The 66500 board says 'FDU Control' - Fixed Disk Unit? it has addr >> and write enable switches... looks like a late 70s - early 80s era >> HP disc I/O - for embedded test - network analyzers - ??? >> >> >> The rest of the photos are so badly lit and out of focus that I >> can't make out the designations - on the 6119 board - there is a >> crystal (the oblong tin can) in the upper left corner - above that is >> some writing - what does it say? > >It's the text in the file name: > >(HP logo) 02116-6119 >H 741 6 > >On the handles are "TIME BASE GEN" and "A". That's what it is then, a Time Base Generator for the HP 1000s. It was used for the same purposes that you'd use a clock/timer circuit for in a modern computer. In other words, generating interrupts, timing events, controlling external devices etc. I'm about 99 1/2% certain that the manual is on Al's site. > >For the other similarly shaped card (12604-600001), there's labels stuck >near the part number that say "1046A" and "03142" and on one of the >handles is printed "HP DATA". I'm not sure what that is. My guess is that it's a data interface probably for something like a PT reader or punch or maybe the I/O expansion chassis. But again go look at the HP manuals on Al's site. Joe From uban at ubanproductions.com Tue Feb 17 15:30:02 2004 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:30 2005 Subject: 50Hz vs 60Hz fixed drive speed ? In-Reply-To: <010501c3f59a$6e4525e0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> References: <5.2.0.9.0.20040217145249.0216eeb0@mail.ubanproductions.com> <16434.33748.88721.380685@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20040217152937.037226e8@mail.ubanproductions.com> Were those fixed disks or removable? --tom At 03:10 PM 2/17/2004 -0600, you wrote: >at least on the limited number of HP drives I've worked on, it's always a >different hub pully for 50hz vs. 60hz. > >Jay >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Paul Koning" >To: >Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2004 3:12 PM >Subject: Re: 50Hz vs 60Hz fixed drive speed ? > > > > >>>>> "Tom" == Tom Uban writes: > > > > Tom> A friend and I were discussing 8" floppy drives recently, in > > Tom> particular that they often have two pulley sizes so that the > > Tom> rotational speed is 360rpm regardless of 50Hz or 60Hz operation, > > Tom> assuming that they are setup properly. > > > > Tom> The question then turned to whether or not a fixed hard drive > > Tom> would typically be designed in a similar fashion, such that the > > Tom> spindle would rotate at the same number of RPM when configured > > Tom> for 50Hz or 60Hz operation, or if they did not worry about the > > Tom> speed differences as the media was not removable? > > > > Looking at some DEC drives in the Peripherals Handbook.... the RS04 > > fixed disk (head per track) drive spins slower with 50 Hz power. > > Various removable pack drives (RP04, RK03, RP03) all show a single RPM > > spec but two models, one 50Hz, one 60Hz. Of course, voltage is > > another consideration. > > > > A Maintenance manual would give more detail about whether there really > > are two different pulleys or the like, but the data suggest that this > > is indeed the case for the removable drives. > > > > paul > > > > > > > >--- >[This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue Feb 17 15:27:51 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:30 2005 Subject: 50Hz vs 60Hz fixed drive speed ? References: <5.2.0.9.0.20040217145249.0216eeb0@mail.ubanproductions.com><16434.33748.88721.380685@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <5.2.0.9.0.20040217152937.037226e8@mail.ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <013201c3f59c$e5f444c0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> fixed, 14" platters 7900/7905/7906 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Uban" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2004 3:30 PM Subject: Re: 50Hz vs 60Hz fixed drive speed ? > Were those fixed disks or removable? > > --tom > > At 03:10 PM 2/17/2004 -0600, you wrote: > > >at least on the limited number of HP drives I've worked on, it's always a > >different hub pully for 50hz vs. 60hz. > > > >Jay > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Paul Koning" > >To: > >Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2004 3:12 PM > >Subject: Re: 50Hz vs 60Hz fixed drive speed ? > > > > > > > >>>>> "Tom" == Tom Uban writes: > > > > > > Tom> A friend and I were discussing 8" floppy drives recently, in > > > Tom> particular that they often have two pulley sizes so that the > > > Tom> rotational speed is 360rpm regardless of 50Hz or 60Hz operation, > > > Tom> assuming that they are setup properly. > > > > > > Tom> The question then turned to whether or not a fixed hard drive > > > Tom> would typically be designed in a similar fashion, such that the > > > Tom> spindle would rotate at the same number of RPM when configured > > > Tom> for 50Hz or 60Hz operation, or if they did not worry about the > > > Tom> speed differences as the media was not removable? > > > > > > Looking at some DEC drives in the Peripherals Handbook.... the RS04 > > > fixed disk (head per track) drive spins slower with 50 Hz power. > > > Various removable pack drives (RP04, RK03, RP03) all show a single RPM > > > spec but two models, one 50Hz, one 60Hz. Of course, voltage is > > > another consideration. > > > > > > A Maintenance manual would give more detail about whether there really > > > are two different pulleys or the like, but the data suggest that this > > > is indeed the case for the removable drives. > > > > > > paul > > > > > > > > > > > > >--- > >[This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > > --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue Feb 17 15:28:25 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:30 2005 Subject: [OT] HP 1630 Manual? References: Message-ID: <013801c3f59c$fa0d8840$033310ac@kwcorp.com> I have it in paper format... if you don't find it in electronic let me know and I'll copy and mail. Jay ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patrick Rigney" To: Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2004 3:23 PM Subject: [OT] HP 1630 Manual? > Does anyone have an electronic copy of the operator's manual for an HP 1630 > logic analyzer (specifically 1630G, but I think any of the series will be > pretty much the same). > > TIA! --Patrick > > --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From patrick at evocative.com Tue Feb 17 15:46:20 2004 From: patrick at evocative.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:30 2005 Subject: CP/M and other software... Message-ID: Through the generous donations of several individuals (especially Gaby Chaudry for allowing me to mirror her site and Barry Smith for a copy of his archives) I now have available over 600MB of CP/M software and data, as well as machine-specific information, from a variety of sources. I'm making this available now, although I'm not finished organizing it (there's a lot of duplication, gaps, etc.). Also a lot of the archives are in old (current-at-the-time) formats, and I will be indexing them for easier traversal. This has already been done for most of the ZIP archives, particularly those from Barry's collection. Please feel free to browse/download. I've hobbled the bandwidth a bit at the moment just to get a feel for how much this may affect my network, so please forgive the temporary configuration of the server. ftp://ftp.staunch89er.com/pub/ Suggestions, pointers, info about broken files, donations of missing files, etc., are all appreciated! --Patrick From vcf at siconic.com Tue Feb 17 15:54:04 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:30 2005 Subject: Smoke on the Horizon... oh s**t! In-Reply-To: <200402171829.i1HITFj8075777@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 17 Feb 2004, Frank McConnell wrote: > Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > Frank McConnell has a terrific photo of a tantalum blowing on a Sol-20 > > I was present but someone else had the camera. Stan Sieler maybe? > > And I thought it was a N* Horizon too. Or maybe I'm confusing it with > the one I blew out some tantalum caps in. Nope, it was the Sol-20. It was at Stan's Sol-20 party. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From uban at ubanproductions.com Tue Feb 17 15:57:37 2004 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:30 2005 Subject: 50Hz vs 60Hz fixed drive speed ? In-Reply-To: <3699.65.123.179.135.1077052412.squirrel@webmail.ccp.com> References: <5.2.0.9.0.20040217145249.0216eeb0@mail.ubanproductions.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20040217145249.0216eeb0@mail.ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20040217153740.0a5a1dc8@mail.ubanproductions.com> Well if you are talking about modern hard drives, then you are of course correct. But then that wouldn't be on topic for this list. My question revolves around the old vintage hard drives with fixed platters driven by A/C motors. --tom At 03:13 PM 2/17/2004 -0600, you wrote: >Hard drives are almost always driven by a DC motor (off the +12v line). >There is a speed servo thatt derrives its proper feedback from the servo >information formatted into the disk. Remember the only AC in a PC today >is the input bridge/caps that makes the DC voltage that the switch >transistor or FET turns into AC for the power transformer. That is how >they do autoranging, and they will work with just about any kind of input >AC. > >The only problesm you have with 60 vs 50 Hz power is with synchronous >motors. This is a BIG problem with Hammond tonewheel organs shipped from >the US overseas to 50 Hz power. > >Gary Hildebrand >St. Joseph, MO > > > > A friend and I were discussing 8" floppy drives recently, in particular > > that they often have two pulley sizes so that the rotational speed is > > 360rpm regardless of 50Hz or 60Hz operation, assuming that they are > > setup properly. > > > > The question then turned to whether or not a fixed hard drive would > > typically be designed in a similar fashion, such that the spindle > > would rotate at the same number of RPM when configured for 50Hz or > > 60Hz operation, or if they did not worry about the speed differences > > as the media was not removable? > > > > Of course todays modern hard drives are driven with DC motors, so > > they are not affected by the A/C frequency differences. > > > > Does anyone know what manufacturers routinely did on this account? > > > > --tnx > > --tom > > > > From pkoning at equallogic.com Tue Feb 17 16:04:39 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:30 2005 Subject: 50Hz vs 60Hz fixed drive speed ? References: <5.2.0.9.0.20040217145249.0216eeb0@mail.ubanproductions.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20040217153740.0a5a1dc8@mail.ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <16434.36855.338429.698021@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Tom" == Tom Uban writes: Tom> Well if you are talking about modern hard drives, then you are Tom> of course correct. But then that wouldn't be on topic for this Tom> list. My question revolves around the old vintage hard drives Tom> with fixed platters driven by A/C motors. One data point: at least some of the DEC head-per-track fixed disks -- RS64/RC11 and RF11 -- were constructed with spindles just like modern hard drives, the motor and platter bearing assembly all a single unit. In other words, there aren't any pulleys or the like in that setup. But the motors were AC motors, so in that case you'd definitely end up with a rotation speed dependent on the power line frequency. I don't know if the 16% difference was big enough to require tweaks to the drive electronics -- the PLL in the data recovery circuit, specifically. Perhaps so. paul From vcf at siconic.com Tue Feb 17 16:03:08 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:30 2005 Subject: 50Hz vs 60Hz fixed drive speed ? In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20040217145249.0216eeb0@mail.ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: Hi Tom. I don't have any info for you. This message is just to let you know that when I try to e-mail you directly I get the following bounce: ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- (reason: 550 5.0.0 Access denied) ----- Transcript of session follows ----- ... while talking to mail.ubanproductions.com.: >>> MAIL From: <<< 550 5.0.0 Access denied 554 5.0.0 Service unavailable What is the deal with that? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From uban at ubanproductions.com Tue Feb 17 16:22:07 2004 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:30 2005 Subject: 50Hz vs 60Hz fixed drive speed ? In-Reply-To: References: <5.2.0.9.0.20040217145249.0216eeb0@mail.ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20040217162014.0214add8@mail.ubanproductions.com> Hi Sellam, I have no idea. Does it happen all of the time, or is it an anomaly? No one else has mentioned having a problem, but then maybe it is because they cannot reach me... --tom At 02:03 PM 2/17/2004 -0800, you wrote: >Hi Tom. > >I don't have any info for you. This message is just to let you know that >when I try to e-mail you directly I get the following bounce: > > > ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- > > (reason: 550 5.0.0 Access denied) > > ----- Transcript of session follows ----- >... while talking to mail.ubanproductions.com.: > >>> MAIL From: ><<< 550 5.0.0 Access denied >554 5.0.0 Service unavailable > >What is the deal with that? > >-- > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > >[ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] >[ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From tomj at wps.com Tue Feb 17 16:59:06 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:30 2005 Subject: Smoke on the Horizon... oh s**t! In-Reply-To: <0402162039.AA15322@ivan.Harhan.ORG> References: <0402162039.AA15322@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: <1077057941.2496.19.camel@dhcp-249187> Big, huge, gargantuan, monster arrays of dipped silver mica caps? Seriously, I think you just have to change them often, eg. decadely. (That's a perfectly cromulent word.) I think spacecraft programmers know about this sort of thing, but you could probably design a power supply that presupposed possible failures like this, but basically no one but us lunatics care about electronic objects lasting more than five, never mind 10 or 20 years. tomj On Mon, 2004-02-16 at 12:39, Michael Sokolov wrote: > So here is my question then: if not tantalum, then what? > > I've always been told that aluminum electrolytic caps were cheap stuff that > doesn't last and that tantalum caps are much better and (that was the claim) > eternal. So I guess this is wrong. What is the truth then? Is it the other > way around? Or are they both bad? And why are so many people, including on > this list, saying "aluminum electrolytics are cheap crap, use tantalum"? > > And what are the *good* caps to use? > > MS From tomj at wps.com Tue Feb 17 17:01:08 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:30 2005 Subject: Smoke on the Horizon... oh s**t! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1077058069.2498.22.camel@dhcp-249187> I find it interesting that so many tants are dying. Were the deceased run close to their rated voltage? One word suffices for increased component life: DERATE! Stick 100V caps where 16V once lived. It costs more. There you go. tomj On Mon, 2004-02-16 at 13:10, Peter C. Wallace wrote: > On Mon, 16 Feb 2004, Michael Sokolov wrote: > > > So here is my question then: if not tantalum, then what? > > > > I've always been told that aluminum electrolytic caps were cheap stuff that > > doesn't last and that tantalum caps are much better and (that was the claim) > > eternal. So I guess this is wrong. What is the truth then? Is it the other > > way around? Or are they both bad? And why are so many people, including on > > this list, saying "aluminum electrolytics are cheap crap, use tantalum"? > > > > And what are the *good* caps to use? > > > > MS > > > > Must be something about the period when they were made or the manufacturer, > we've used millions over the years and never had much trouble with them... > > Tantalums have lower ESR than (standard aluminum electrolytics) and last > longer (dont dry out), plus they have a wider operating temperature range. > Most aluminum electrolytics stop being capacitors around freezing. > > So my with experience with Tantalums has been good, I even have some 50's > vintage ones that work fine (Tantalum foil). > > > > Peter Wallace > Mesa Electronics From pkoning at equallogic.com Tue Feb 17 16:52:20 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:30 2005 Subject: Smoke on the Horizon... oh s**t! References: <0402162039.AA15322@ivan.Harhan.ORG> <1077057941.2496.19.camel@dhcp-249187> Message-ID: <16434.39716.275709.783457@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Tom" == Tom Jennings writes: Tom> Big, huge, gargantuan, monster arrays of dipped silver mica Tom> caps? Seriously, I think you just have to change them often, Tom> eg. decadely. Actually, at least in switching power supplies, ceramic capacitors are now a good option. You can get ceramics of several hundred microfarad, and they are quite small. More expensive than tantalum, I expect, but more reliable. And if they do fail, they normally fail open, not shorted as electrolytics do. paul From jpero at sympatico.ca Tue Feb 17 12:19:48 2004 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:30 2005 Subject: Smoke on the Horizon... oh s**t! In-Reply-To: <16434.39716.275709.783457@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <20040217231942.NKJV20179.tomts20-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > Tom> Big, huge, gargantuan, monster arrays of dipped silver mica > Tom> caps? Seriously, I think you just have to change them often, > Tom> eg. decadely. > > Actually, at least in switching power supplies, ceramic capacitors are > now a good option. You can get ceramics of several hundred > microfarad, and they are quite small. More expensive than tantalum, I > expect, but more reliable. And if they do fail, they normally fail > open, not shorted as electrolytics do. Not only that, will be found shorted, even leaking like a resistor. Seen these happen with ceramics. When they leak or intermittently shorting gets you chasing all over. But many times I stop and stare at schematics and think, try a area where a component is most likely is failing. Also even a service mode that lets me disable or adjust a item was helpful. This usually nails it. Even a semiconductor stuff is known to leak or make signals intermittent or constantly jumpy (volts) or jitters (waveforms). Optical coolants (same stuff as anti-freeze) soaked resistors (especially flameproof & fusible resistors) resistance went down and blow the semiconductor IC eg: vertical IC after awhile. Made repair more diffcult till I found out why. Cheers, Wizard (working on TV, projector & monitor for shop). > > paul From mtapley at swri.edu Tue Feb 17 17:45:56 2004 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:30 2005 Subject: Smoke on the Horizon... oh s**t! In-Reply-To: <1077057941.2496.19.camel@dhcp-249187> References: <0402162039.AA15322@ivan.Harhan.ORG> <1077057941.2496.19.camel@dhcp-249187> Message-ID: >Big, huge, gargantuan, monster arrays of dipped silver mica caps? > >Seriously, I think you just have to change them often, eg. decadely. >(That's a perfectly cromulent word.) "Decadely" I accept, it makes sense by analogy with "weekly". But "cromulent"? Communication is not being served. Got a synonym I can look up? >I think spacecraft programmers know about this sort of thing, but you >could probably design a power supply that presupposed possible failures >like this, but basically no one but us lunatics care about electronic >objects lasting more than five, never mind 10 or 20 years. It's not guaranteed, even there. There are spacecraft instruments in build with single capacitors in a circuit where fail-short means the instrument can't turn on. Same job could have been done with two capacitors in series. Then if either fails short, the circuit still works. (It might exceed its timing spec, but it'll work.) In fact I have caused that addition to be made in some instruments and power supplies, but the design engineers don't seem to learn easily. And there are some I didn't get to review until "too late" in the design cycle. Sigh. -- - Mark 210-522-6025, page 888-733-0967 From dan_williams at ntlworld.com Tue Feb 17 17:49:59 2004 From: dan_williams at ntlworld.com (Dan Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:30 2005 Subject: Smoke on the Horizon... oh s**t! In-Reply-To: <16434.39716.275709.783457@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <0402162039.AA15322@ivan.Harhan.ORG> <1077057941.2496.19.camel@dhcp-249187> <16434.39716.275709.783457@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <4032A8A7.4080901@ntlworld.com> > And if they do fail, they normally fail >open, not shorted as electrolytics do. > > paul > > > > Makes them a lot harder to find when they do. Dan From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Tue Feb 17 18:08:07 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:30 2005 Subject: VT420 experiment needed In-Reply-To: <0402172110.AA16294@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: > So after canceling the compose, it does NOT transmit the > normal code(s) for keypad Enter (CR, CR LF, or SS3 M)? Are It sends a . Dot sends a dot :) > This is the hexadecimal compose feature. The keys of the > numeric keypad become hex digits in compose mode. 0-9 are > themselves, PF1-PF4 are A-D, '-' is E, and ',' is F. You can > enter any 8-bit character from 00 to FF as two hex digits. Right! I never knew that existed! > > 11 = nothing > > Actually it's XON (^Q), though of course it's normally unseen. Correct again. In Local Mode 11 sends a > > 22 = " > > 33 = 3 > > 44 = D > > 55 = U > > 66 = f > > 77 = w > > These are just ASCII. Verified against asciitable.com..... > controls in Setup. If it's set for 7-bit controls, the > manual says that C1 chars entered through hex compose will be > turned into equivalent 7-bit escape sequences. Can you test > (using local mode, display controls) whether this is actually true? I get a beep and the 2nd keypress, as I expected. > Compose or anything else for 7-bit ASCII, unless of course > you are one of those strange people who configure their > LK201s for some non-ASCII national mode. We only ever had problems with the english pound sign :) w From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Tue Feb 17 18:53:58 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:30 2005 Subject: VT420 experiment needed Message-ID: <0402180053.AA16616@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Witchy wrote: > It sends a . Dot sends a dot :) OK, so these are out-of-compose keys like arrows and function keys, and like the whole keypad on VT2xx/3xx. > Verified against asciitable.com..... Umm, you don't remember the entire ASCII table by heart? Tsk tsk. This is the kind of thing that everyone should know as most basic, so if anyone wakes you up in the middle of the night and asks you to recite the ASCII table, you ought to be able to just recite all 128 characters immediately. (Or at least the 96 characters from space through delete plus the most basic controls, I'll grant that most of the C0 control characters are not used anywhere and have no real meaning beyond the paper spec.) > I get a beep and the 2nd keypress, as I expected. Wait a moment, are you saying that if you enter a code between 80 and 9F through hex compose while the terminal is set for VT400 mode, 7-bit controls in Setup, it beeps in error and sends nothing? This is not what the manual says, it says that it sends the two-byte 7-bit escape sequence equivalent to the C1 control character entered. So the actual behaviour differs from documentation here, right? MS From MTPro at aol.com Tue Feb 17 19:54:28 2004 From: MTPro at aol.com (MTPro@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:30 2005 Subject: cctalk Digest, Vol 6, Issue 33 Message-ID: <1c1.152b0c4a.2d641fd4@aol.com> In a message dated 2/16/2004 12:47:43 PM Eastern Standard Time, cctalk-request@classiccmp.org writes: A quick browse thru one of my catalogs - (Newark) in the Belden section, shows them currently available - part number 17280 for 'hot left of gnd' and 17952 for 'hot right of gnd' pinning. Newark stock numbers: 36F987 for the 17280 36F986 for the 17952 -986 is $6.32 -987 is $5.67 Hi John, thank you for that information. Do you know how I can tell if I need hot left vs. hot right? Is the Newark catalog available in the US? Thanks, David From vcf at siconic.com Tue Feb 17 20:05:18 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:30 2005 Subject: 50Hz vs 60Hz fixed drive speed ? In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20040217162014.0214add8@mail.ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 17 Feb 2004, Tom Uban wrote: > I have no idea. Does it happen all of the time, or is it an anomaly? No > one else has mentioned having a problem, but then maybe it is because > they cannot reach me... It happens all the time, unfortunately. I tried to respond to you last week regarding the Plato thread and that's when I first noticed it. It must have something to do with some anti-spam software you have installed somewhere. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Tue Feb 17 20:47:14 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:30 2005 Subject: FS: Compaq Proliant 4100 with Wide-Ultra SCSI-3 (Model UE) interface Message-ID: I just got in a Compaq Proliant 4100 Storage System UE with Wide-Ultra SCSI-3 interface (Model UE). It has 5 drive chassis and dual hot-swap power supplies. Both supplies fire up nicely, fans come on, all pertinents LEDs show normal operation. I have no drives to test with so selling as-is. Interested? I'm not expecting much. Make an offer. Best offer by 2/21 gets it. Reply directly (private mail). List responses will be mocked and derided. Shipped weight: 55lbs >From ZIP code 94550 -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From uban at ubanproductions.com Tue Feb 17 21:01:35 2004 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:30 2005 Subject: 50Hz vs 60Hz fixed drive speed ? In-Reply-To: References: <5.2.0.9.0.20040217162014.0214add8@mail.ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20040217205537.03ceb898@mail.ubanproductions.com> I wondered why I didn't hear from you. What IP address would you be sending from. I checked siconic.com to see if it was in my denial list, and it is not. Also, I am receiving your email to the classic list without difficulty, so unless you send it from a different IP address, I don't understand why one would be rejected and the other not. --tom At 06:05 PM 2/17/2004 -0800, you wrote: >On Tue, 17 Feb 2004, Tom Uban wrote: > > > I have no idea. Does it happen all of the time, or is it an anomaly? No > > one else has mentioned having a problem, but then maybe it is because > > they cannot reach me... > >It happens all the time, unfortunately. I tried to respond to you last >week regarding the Plato thread and that's when I first noticed it. It >must have something to do with some anti-spam software you have installed >somewhere. > >-- > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > >[ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] >[ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From rdd at rddavis.org Tue Feb 17 21:28:28 2004 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:30 2005 Subject: Hobbyist VMS (was: Got a DEC 2000 Alpha server, need help) In-Reply-To: <20040212214842.D0A0E7F82@narnia.int.dittman.net> References: <20040212214842.D0A0E7F82@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <20040218032108.GH1789@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Eric Dittman, from writings of Thu, Feb 12, 2004 at 03:48:42PM -0600: > I believe things are in place to continue the program even if HP does drop Ummm, you mean like that that document explaining how to modify VMS as necessary to keep using it? :-) ...or the FreeVMS project? It seems oddly backwards to say something like "It would be nice to see FreeVMS ported from PCs to VAXen." :-) All that said, the program does seem like a good thing---well, the best that's come along yet from any of the (once) major computer corporations, so I really shouldn't gripe about the limitations. After all, at least, unlike DG's AOS/VS operating system (drool---still, I'm not discarding my AOS/VS manual set), we get to use new versions of the software, although I seem to recall that 5.x is better for older systems such as the VAX 4000 series and earlier. Presently I've got 5.x on my VAX 4000-200, but no way to back it up (still haven't found a cheap SCSI board and don't have mounting hardware for the TK50), so I avoid using it, not wanting to put any more hours on the old DSSI disks. After getting to the right Encompass form, I filled it out, and will see what happens. Still, not sure if I want to install the new OS version if I do get it though. Has anyone tried installing OpenVMS by copying parts of it, from a CD on another (non DEC) machine via a network connection, to an unused disk on the VAX? -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From rdd at rddavis.org Tue Feb 17 21:32:34 2004 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:30 2005 Subject: Hobbyist VMS (was: Got a DEC 2000 Alpha server, need help) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040218032522.GI1789@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Zane H. Healy, from writings of Thu, Feb 12, 2004 at 10:36:59AM -0800: > What on earth do you put in for the "Associate ID"? I really should > sign up, I've been using my expired DECUS ID to get licenses. KAOS worked just fine. I guess CONTROL, 86 or 99 may have worked just as well. :-) -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Feb 17 21:22:55 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:31 2005 Subject: Hobbyist VMS (was: Got a DEC 2000 Alpha server, need help) In-Reply-To: <20040218032108.GH1789@rhiannon.rddavis.org> from "R. D. Davis" at Feb 17, 2004 10:21:08 PM Message-ID: <200402180322.i1I3MtC1031055@onyx.spiritone.com> > version if I do get it though. Has anyone tried installing OpenVMS by > copying parts of it, from a CD on another (non DEC) machine via a > network connection, to an unused disk on the VAX? I've not done that, but I have copied a 7.2 VAX CD via DECnet from an Alpha to a slightly functional MicroVAX III's RA72, then booted off the RA72 and installed 7.2 on another RA72. If the VAX is SCSI, you *might* be able to just 'dd' the CD to a HD on a Unix box. Zane From rdd at rddavis.org Tue Feb 17 22:41:03 2004 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:31 2005 Subject: ever de-rack a TS11? In-Reply-To: <200402112200.i1BM0wh32248@mwave.heeltoe.com> References: <200402112200.i1BM0wh32248@mwave.heeltoe.com> Message-ID: <20040218043350.GK1789@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Brad Parker, from writings of Wed, Feb 11, 2004 at 05:00:58PM -0500: > Has anyone ever removed a TS-11 from a rack? Any advice? Remove anything below it, then you can some wood bracing and hydraulic car jack, along with plenty of thick foam padding (fabric stores should have this). Make sure that the rack is somehow immobilized. Alternately, a couple of pulleys attached to the top of the rack (or basement rafters or the supports above a fake ceiling in an office environment), and some bailing twine or, better yet, clothes line, are better yet. -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From vcf at siconic.com Tue Feb 17 23:56:35 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:31 2005 Subject: 50Hz vs 60Hz fixed drive speed ? In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20040217205537.03ceb898@mail.ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 17 Feb 2004, Tom Uban wrote: > I wondered why I didn't hear from you. What IP address would you be > sending from. I checked siconic.com to see if it was in my denial > list, and it is not. Also, I am receiving your email to the classic > list without difficulty, so unless you send it from a different IP > address, I don't understand why one would be rejected and the other > not. I'm sending it from whatever siconic.com resolves to; same as my messages to CC. I think the reason it works when you receive messages from CC and not directly from me is because my siconic.com domain does not rDNS resolve properly (stupid upstream ISP), whereas my messages to the CC list come from Jay's server. Oh well, I hope no one minds us blathering to each other on the list. It's the quickest solution until I move my server in-house. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From RCini at congressfinancial.com Tue Feb 17 10:44:09 2004 From: RCini at congressfinancial.com (Cini, Richard) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:31 2005 Subject: Parallel keyboard interfacing Message-ID: <69DBC74E5784D6119BEA0090271EB8E5FA4401@MAIL10> Hello, all: I was browsing the Mini-ITX motherboard site recently (http://www.mini-itx.com) and was intrigued by some of the cloaked "classic" PC projects. The Mini-ITX is an extremely small form-factor PC motherboard and this site outlines people's homebrewed projects. Anyway, there's a project using an Atari 800, a Commodore 64 and a Commodore SX-64. This got me to thinking. In these projects the keyboard is left in the case as a prop (non-working). I was thinking about using a busted Amiga 500 (more internal space to mount stuff) for a project but I want to find out how hard it would be to make the prototype keyboard "working" by connecting it to a hacked PS/2 keyboard controller. Does anyone have a schematic for an actual PS/2 or AT keyboard? How are the keys connected to the keyboard controller? Thanks in advance. Rich From john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org Tue Feb 17 20:44:10 2004 From: john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org (John Boffemmyer IV) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:31 2005 Subject: cctalk Digest, Vol 6, Issue 33 In-Reply-To: <1c1.152b0c4a.2d641fd4@aol.com> References: <1c1.152b0c4a.2d641fd4@aol.com> Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.2.20040217214103.02465e70@mail.n.ml.org> Newark Catalog IS available in the US and the catalog can be dropped to your door/PO Box free of charge from the newark electronics web site. I've gotten a few years' worth sitting here. They are as thick as Fat Albert/Star Jones/Fat Bastard/Linda Tripp. About 3-4" thick, 8 1/2" x 11". Branches across the US for fast shipping. -John Boffemmyer IV At 08:54 PM 2/17/2004, you wrote: >In a message dated 2/16/2004 12:47:43 PM Eastern Standard Time, >cctalk-request@classiccmp.org writes: >A quick browse thru one of my catalogs - (Newark) in the Belden section, >shows them currently available - part number 17280 for 'hot left of gnd' >and 17952 for 'hot right of gnd' pinning. Newark stock numbers: > > 36F987 for the 17280 > 36F986 for the 17952 > >-986 is $6.32 >-987 is $5.67 >Hi John, thank you for that information. Do you know how I can tell if I need >hot left vs. hot right? Is the Newark catalog available in the US? Thanks, >David ---------------------------------------- Founder, Lead Writer, Tech Analyst and Web Designer Boff-Net Technologies http://boff-net.dhs.org/index.html --------------------------------------- From richardlehun at compuserve.com Tue Feb 17 23:51:58 2004 From: richardlehun at compuserve.com (RIchard Lehun) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:31 2005 Subject: Applicard Message-ID: <001601c3f5e3$55cbd970$a404fea9@Vaio> I know it is a long time ago, but you still have the applicard? Thanks - Richard - From arcarlini at iee.org Wed Feb 18 01:54:35 2004 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:31 2005 Subject: Hobbyist VMS (was: Got a DEC 2000 Alpha server, need help) In-Reply-To: <20040218032108.GH1789@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <001501c3f5f4$74326170$5b01a8c0@athlon> > tried installing OpenVMS by copying parts of it, from a CD on > another (non DEC) machine via a network connection, to an > unused disk on the VAX? Copy the VMS*.% and DECW*.% files to [000000] on whichever disk has enough space (including the system disk if this is an UPGRADE and you have enough room on it afterwards to still perform said upgrade) and off you go. Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From asholz at topinform.de Wed Feb 18 02:28:28 2004 From: asholz at topinform.de (Andreas Holz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:31 2005 Subject: PDP11 urgent In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4033222C.30601@topinform.com> Hello to all PDP-Enthusiast, esp in Southern England. I got some informations that there will be several PDP's (approx 5 Systems) be abandoned in S-England in the near future. As I'm living in Germany and I'm planning to make a trip to S-England to collect some of these, I'm nevertheless not able to collect them all by my own. Based on this problem I'm looking for some PDP-Enthusiasts in England to cooperate in this task. Maybe these machines will be abandoned within a very short timeframe. For futher informations please contact my direcly ASAP!!!!! - Andreas From dan_williams at ntlworld.com Wed Feb 18 04:17:26 2004 From: dan_williams at ntlworld.com (Dan Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:31 2005 Subject: PDP11 urgent In-Reply-To: <4033222C.30601@topinform.com> References: <4033222C.30601@topinform.com> Message-ID: <40333BB6.5030008@ntlworld.com> Andreas Holz wrote: > Hello to all PDP-Enthusiast, esp in Southern England. > > I got some informations that there will be several PDP's (approx 5 > Systems) be abandoned in S-England in the near future. > > As I'm living in Germany and I'm planning to make a trip to S-England > to collect some of these, I'm nevertheless not able to collect them > all by my own. Based on this problem I'm looking for some > PDP-Enthusiasts in England to cooperate in this task. Maybe these > machines will be abandoned within a very short timeframe. > > For futher informations please contact my direcly ASAP!!!!! > > - Andreas > > I would be interested, what's available. At the very least I can help out with moving some stuff around with you. I am running out of space for big machines. Dan From waltje at pdp11.nl Wed Feb 18 05:00:23 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:31 2005 Subject: Hobbyist VMS (was: Got a DEC 2000 Alpha server, need help) In-Reply-To: <20040218032108.GH1789@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: On 17 Feb 2004, R. D. Davis wrote: > Presently I've got 5.x on my VAX 4000-200, but no way to back it up > (still haven't found a cheap SCSI board and don't have mounting > hardware for the TK50), so I avoid using it, not wanting to put any > more hours on the old DSSI disks. Those "old disks" are tougher than anything that's out there of the modern day. Dunno what their manuf. process was, but damn, these are like concrete bricks. Just let em spin, they'll be all happy (and noisy). The TK50 can be used without the rubbery mounting thinger just fine... I ran one for months just sitting atop a BA23, just cos I didnt have the space to mount it in ;-) I ended up enclosing it in a bit of cardboard, so keep dirt out, but other than that.. it was fine. > After getting to the right Encompass form, I filled it out, and will > see what happens. Still, not sure if I want to install the new OS > version if I do get it though. Has anyone tried installing OpenVMS by > copying parts of it, from a CD on another (non DEC) machine via a > network connection, to an unused disk on the VAX? Yeah, you can copy the CD to a disk, and then just boot the disk, since the CD contains "just" an ODS2 volume. So, create a CDROM image with a copying program (or "dd" under Unix) and then copy that to the disk, in raw (sector) mode. Of, for any DEC hobbyist goes.. get a hold of an InfoServer.. they make (VMS) life so much easier :) Cheers, Fred -- Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist Visit the VAXlab Project at http://VAXlab.pdp11.nl/ Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Mountain View, CA, USA From jwest at classiccmp.org Wed Feb 18 06:29:01 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:31 2005 Subject: DNS woes (was Re: 50Hz vs 60Hz fixed drive speed ?) References: Message-ID: <004401c3f61a$ca3417a0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Sellam wrote.... > I think the reason it works when you receive messages from CC and not > directly from me is because my siconic.com domain does not rDNS resolve > properly (stupid upstream ISP As of late I have noticed that more and more major mail servers will not process mail from any server who's forward and reverse dns do not match exactly. That's not a big deal, but the way some (AOL) are doing it, does violate RFC's. Specifically, even if the forward and reverses DO match, but the reverse lookup provides aliases as well, they will toss it. However, this breaks an RFC-specified way of handling delegation of subnets on uneven boundaries. *sigh* Jay West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From waltje at pdp11.nl Wed Feb 18 06:59:03 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:31 2005 Subject: DNS woes (was Re: 50Hz vs 60Hz fixed drive speed ?) In-Reply-To: <004401c3f61a$ca3417a0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 18 Feb 2004, Jay West wrote: > Sellam wrote.... > > I think the reason it works when you receive messages from CC and not > > directly from me is because my siconic.com domain does not rDNS resolve > > properly (stupid upstream ISP > > As of late I have noticed that more and more major mail servers will not > process mail from any server who's forward and reverse dns do not match > exactly. Yes, this is normal behavious these days. That's not a big deal, but the way some (AOL) are doing it, does > violate RFC's. Specifically, even if the forward and reverses DO match, but > the reverse lookup provides aliases as well, they will toss it. However, > this breaks an RFC-specified way of handling delegation of subnets on uneven > boundaries. *sigh* Subnet delegation never worked well, so one simply should not do it at all... just delegate at the class level. Alias processing is pretty much never done well in MTA's, *especially* not for reverse lookups. Simply dont rely on it, keep the mail server addressing as simple as possible, using a single address, and a single DNS mapping for it, without CNAME and PTR crap, because that will slow down processing for your address as a result of multiple lookups. --f From uban at ubanproductions.com Wed Feb 18 07:28:32 2004 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:31 2005 Subject: 50Hz vs 60Hz fixed drive speed ? In-Reply-To: References: <5.2.0.9.0.20040217205537.03ceb898@mail.ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20040218072544.03e149d8@mail.ubanproductions.com> At 09:56 PM 2/17/2004 -0800, you wrote: >On Tue, 17 Feb 2004, Tom Uban wrote: > > > I wondered why I didn't hear from you. What IP address would you be > > sending from. I checked siconic.com to see if it was in my denial > > list, and it is not. Also, I am receiving your email to the classic > > list without difficulty, so unless you send it from a different IP > > address, I don't understand why one would be rejected and the other > > not. > >I'm sending it from whatever siconic.com resolves to; same as my messages >to CC. > >I think the reason it works when you receive messages from CC and not >directly from me is because my siconic.com domain does not rDNS resolve >properly (stupid upstream ISP), whereas my messages to the CC list come >from Jay's server. That sounds like the right reason why one does and the other does not. I've removed all of my 550 denied entries. Try sending me a message now and I will see if your host is in the list that I've removed. --tom >Oh well, I hope no one minds us blathering to each other on the list. >It's the quickest solution until I move my server in-house. > >-- > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > >[ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] >[ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From jcwren at jcwren.com Wed Feb 18 07:44:59 2004 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:31 2005 Subject: Parallel keyboard interfacing In-Reply-To: <69DBC74E5784D6119BEA0090271EB8E5FA4401@MAIL10> References: <69DBC74E5784D6119BEA0090271EB8E5FA4401@MAIL10> Message-ID: <40336C5B.8010709@jcwren.com> Cini, Richard wrote: >Hello, all: > > I was browsing the Mini-ITX motherboard site recently >(http://www.mini-itx.com) and was intrigued by some of the cloaked "classic" >PC projects. The Mini-ITX is an extremely small form-factor PC motherboard >and this site outlines people's homebrewed projects. > > Anyway, there's a project using an Atari 800, a Commodore 64 and a >Commodore SX-64. This got me to thinking. In these projects the keyboard is >left in the case as a prop (non-working). I was thinking about using a >busted Amiga 500 (more internal space to mount stuff) for a project but I >want to find out how hard it would be to make the prototype keyboard >"working" by connecting it to a hacked PS/2 keyboard controller. > > Does anyone have a schematic for an actual PS/2 or AT keyboard? How >are the keys connected to the keyboard controller? > > Thanks in advance. > >Rich > > With wires :) I don't have a copy around, but the original XT and AT Technical guides have the schematics for the keyboard. I'm not sure if the PS/2 did or not. Like most keyboard controllers, it's just a row/column arrangement. Your biggest job would likely be cutting loose all the matrix'ed connections on the original keyboard so you could patch it into a matrix the PS/2 keyboard expects. If you look in the back of Citcuit Cellar Ink, there are several companies that sell matrix scanners that output PS/2 codes. They're not very expensive, and it'd be a LOT less effort than trying to re-use a PS/2 controller. If this is the avenue your interested in, and you don't have CCI, I'll grab one of my copies from the warehouse and look some up for you. For those reading this far down, my PS/2 parallel keyboard adapter nears completion. I turned some boards a week or so ago, but made a misteak on them. The software is basically complete, lacking only the check out of the Otrona interface. It also developed a couple of extra features, such as the ability to swap the left control and capslock key, option for backspace to send DEL instead of 0x08, CTRL+ALT+DEL now generates an external reset, and the firmware is updatable by the user (using XMODEM). I plan to send out for the final boards late this week or early next week. --jc From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Wed Feb 18 08:04:47 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:31 2005 Subject: For free: TRS-80, software, manuals etc. (Cambridge UK) Message-ID: <1077112278.32645.52.camel@weka.localdomain> Someone just gave me a boxed Acorn Electron and donated a Tandy TRS-80 Colour Computer 2 at the same time. I have no desire to hang onto the Tandy. It seems to power up ok and be in very good condition under the dirt (it needs a clean!) - no case yellowing etc. Comes with: Fitted dust cover Couple of boxed cartridges Several original tapes TV + tape recorder leads Tape recorder (standard 80's thingy) Operation manuals etc. Several large Tandy Basic turorial books etc. It was destined for the skip otherwise so I couldn't say no - somebody *please* take it off my hands :-) cheers Jules From asholz at topinform.de Wed Feb 18 06:16:42 2004 From: asholz at topinform.de (Andreas Holz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:31 2005 Subject: PDP11 urgent In-Reply-To: <4033222C.30601@topinform.com> References: <4033222C.30601@topinform.com> Message-ID: <403357AA.2080603@topinform.com> Hello all, all arrangements have been done! Andreas Andreas Holz wrote: > Hello to all PDP-Enthusiast, esp in Southern England. > > I got some informations that there will be several PDP's (approx 5 > Systems) be abandoned in S-England in the near future. > > As I'm living in Germany and I'm planning to make a trip to S-England > to collect some of these, I'm nevertheless not able to collect them > all by my own. Based on this problem I'm looking for some > PDP-Enthusiasts in England to cooperate in this task. Maybe these > machines will be abandoned within a very short timeframe. > > For futher informations please contact my direcly ASAP!!!!! > > - Andreas > > From gordonjcp at gjcp.net Wed Feb 18 03:28:03 2004 From: gordonjcp at gjcp.net (Gordon JC Pearce) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:31 2005 Subject: PDP11 urgent In-Reply-To: <4033222C.30601@topinform.com> References: <4033222C.30601@topinform.com> Message-ID: <1077095686.24019.5.camel@pluto> On Wed, 2004-02-18 at 08:28, Andreas Holz wrote: > Hello to all PDP-Enthusiast, esp in Southern England. > > I got some informations that there will be several PDP's (approx 5 > Systems) be abandoned in S-England in the near future. > > As I'm living in Germany and I'm planning to make a trip to S-England to > collect some of these, I'm nevertheless not able to collect them all by > my own. Based on this problem I'm looking for some PDP-Enthusiasts in > England to cooperate in this task. Maybe these machines will be > abandoned within a very short timeframe. > > For futher informations please contact my direcly ASAP!!!!! > > - Andreas > I'm actually in Central Scotland, but if I can I'd like to help collect them. I may be travelling down to the south of England to deliver a car in a couple of weeks (so I'll be coming back with an empty trailer), if that's any help. Gordon. From john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org Wed Feb 18 06:48:16 2004 From: john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org (John Boffemmyer IV) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:31 2005 Subject: FS: Compaq Proliant 4100 with Wide-Ultra SCSI-3 (Model UE) interface In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.2.20040218074045.024682a0@mail.n.ml.org> Damnit Sellam, getting me when money's tight! lol. I was looking for a unit such as that about 2-3 years ago (with mounting gear)! At the time, I had a bunch of old Seagate 4-10GB drives (the 10LB, used as a weapon models) that needed to be put into something so they could be used as part of a Linux system I had planned on building. If I remember correctly, I had a similar unit, but no mounting gear. =( Since then, most of those drives have been parted out. I think I gave one or two to my friend Dave W. in Conn. for a project he was working on. Oh well, maybe next time when another job rolls in. -John Boffemmyer IV At 09:47 PM 2/17/2004, you wrote: >I just got in a Compaq Proliant 4100 Storage System UE with Wide-Ultra >SCSI-3 interface (Model UE). It has 5 drive chassis and dual hot-swap >power supplies. Both supplies fire up nicely, fans come on, all >pertinents LEDs show normal operation. I have no drives to test with so >selling as-is. > >Interested? I'm not expecting much. Make an offer. Best offer by 2/21 >gets it. Reply directly (private mail). List responses will be mocked >and derided. > >Shipped weight: 55lbs > >From ZIP code 94550 > >-- > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > >[ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] >[ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at >http://marketplace.vintage.org ] ---------------------------------------- Founder, Lead Writer, Tech Analyst and Web Designer Boff-Net Technologies http://boff-net.dhs.org/index.html --------------------------------------- From mike at ambientdesign.com Wed Feb 18 07:39:09 2004 From: mike at ambientdesign.com (Mike van Bokhoven) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:31 2005 Subject: Smoke on the Horizon... oh s**t! (OT) References: <0402162039.AA15322@ivan.Harhan.ORG><1077057941.2496.19.camel@dhcp-249187> Message-ID: <00ee01c3f624$9720ca70$3d00a8c0@falco> > >Big, huge, gargantuan, monster arrays of dipped silver mica caps? > >Seriously, I think you just have to change them often, eg. decadely. > >(That's a perfectly cromulent word.) > another...oh, great, gotta pay for that one...sigh> > "Decadely" I accept, it makes sense by analogy with "weekly". > But "cromulent"? Communication is not being served. Got a synonym I > can look up? It's used only by people who have intentionally embiggened their vocabulary. http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=cromulent&b=1 Oh, and while we're at it: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Embiggen Both are extremely useful when talking about old hardware, as you might imagine. M. From allain at panix.com Wed Feb 18 08:13:50 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:31 2005 Subject: ever de-rack a TS11? References: <200402112200.i1BM0wh32248@mwave.heeltoe.com> <20040218043350.GK1789@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <001901c3f629$6f09a160$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> R. D. Davis wrote: > ...some bailing twine or, better yet, clothes line, are better yet. ^^^^ ^^ ^^^^^ ^^ How about you, are you better yet? How heavy Is this TS-11 anyway? John A. From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Wed Feb 18 08:46:09 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:31 2005 Subject: For free: TRS-80, software, manuals etc. (Cambridge UK) In-Reply-To: <1077112278.32645.52.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <1077112278.32645.52.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <1077114760.32644.56.camel@weka.localdomain> On Wed, 2004-02-18 at 13:51, Jules Richardson wrote: > I have no desire to hang onto the Tandy. Oh FWIW, I just found a couple of Tandy joysticks for it, plus the manual for the tape recorder (includes schematic! ;) ta Jules From lbickley at bickleywest.com Wed Feb 18 08:32:36 2004 From: lbickley at bickleywest.com (Lyle Bickley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:31 2005 Subject: cctalk Digest, Vol 6, Issue 33 In-Reply-To: <6.0.3.0.2.20040217214103.02465e70@mail.n.ml.org> References: <1c1.152b0c4a.2d641fd4@aol.com> <6.0.3.0.2.20040217214103.02465e70@mail.n.ml.org> Message-ID: <200402180632.36167.lbickley@bickleywest.com> John, Thanks - I looked over their site - and just ordered the catalog... Lyle On Tuesday 17 February 2004 18:44, John Boffemmyer IV wrote: > Newark Catalog IS available in the US and the catalog can be dropped to > your door/PO Box free of charge from the newark electronics web site. I've > gotten a few years' worth sitting here. They are as thick as Fat > Albert/Star Jones/Fat Bastard/Linda Tripp. About 3-4" thick, 8 1/2" x 11". > Branches across the US for fast shipping. > > -John Boffemmyer IV > > At 08:54 PM 2/17/2004, you wrote: > >In a message dated 2/16/2004 12:47:43 PM Eastern Standard Time, > >cctalk-request@classiccmp.org writes: > >A quick browse thru one of my catalogs - (Newark) in the Belden section, > >shows them currently available - part number 17280 for 'hot left of gnd' > >and 17952 for 'hot right of gnd' pinning. Newark stock numbers: > > > > 36F987 for the 17280 > > 36F986 for the 17952 > > > >-986 is $6.32 > >-987 is $5.67 > >Hi John, thank you for that information. Do you know how I can tell if I > > need hot left vs. hot right? Is the Newark catalog available in the US? > > Thanks, David > > ---------------------------------------- > Founder, Lead Writer, Tech Analyst > and Web Designer Boff-Net Technologies > http://boff-net.dhs.org/index.html > --------------------------------------- -- Lyle Bickley Bickley Consulting West Inc. http://bickleywest.com "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero" From mike at shawnuff.net Wed Feb 18 09:17:47 2004 From: mike at shawnuff.net (Mike Shaw) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:31 2005 Subject: For free: TRS-80, software, manuals etc. (Cambridge UK) Message-ID: <200402181517.i1IFHn6A071960@mailserver1.hushmail.com> I definitely want it! What do I need to do? -Mike On Wed, 18 Feb 2004 05:51:19 -0800 Jules Richardson wrote: > >Someone just gave me a boxed Acorn Electron and donated a Tandy TRS- >80 >Colour Computer 2 at the same time. > >I have no desire to hang onto the Tandy. It seems to power up ok >and be >in very good condition under the dirt (it needs a clean!) - no case >yellowing etc. > >Comes with: > > Fitted dust cover > Couple of boxed cartridges > Several original tapes > TV + tape recorder leads > Tape recorder (standard 80's thingy) > Operation manuals etc. > Several large Tandy Basic turorial books etc. > >It was destined for the skip otherwise so I couldn't say no - somebody >*please* take it off my hands :-) > >cheers > >Jules > > From ggs at shiresoft.com Wed Feb 18 10:07:46 2004 From: ggs at shiresoft.com (Guy Sotomayor) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:31 2005 Subject: 50Hz vs 60Hz fixed drive speed ? In-Reply-To: <16434.33748.88721.380685@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <5.2.0.9.0.20040217145249.0216eeb0@mail.ubanproductions.com> <16434.33748.88721.380685@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <1077120466.6133.12.camel@fafnir.shiresoft.com> On Tue, 2004-02-17 at 13:12, Paul Koning wrote: > >>>>> "Tom" == Tom Uban writes: > > Tom> A friend and I were discussing 8" floppy drives recently, in > Tom> particular that they often have two pulley sizes so that the > Tom> rotational speed is 360rpm regardless of 50Hz or 60Hz operation, > Tom> assuming that they are setup properly. > > Tom> The question then turned to whether or not a fixed hard drive > Tom> would typically be designed in a similar fashion, such that the > Tom> spindle would rotate at the same number of RPM when configured > Tom> for 50Hz or 60Hz operation, or if they did not worry about the > Tom> speed differences as the media was not removable? > > Looking at some DEC drives in the Peripherals Handbook.... the RS04 > fixed disk (head per track) drive spins slower with 50 Hz power. > Various removable pack drives (RP04, RK03, RP03) all show a single RPM > spec but two models, one 50Hz, one 60Hz. Of course, voltage is > another consideration. > > A Maintenance manual would give more detail about whether there really > are two different pulleys or the like, but the data suggest that this > is indeed the case for the removable drives. RK05's used a different motor pulley for 50/60Hz. The pulley (on the motor shaft) is actually stamped with the frequency it's intended for. DEC used the same motor in both cases, but used a smaller pulley for 50Hz so that the disk would spin at the correct speed. > > paul -- TTFN - Guy From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Wed Feb 18 11:24:05 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:31 2005 Subject: New find: Nascom.. umm 2.5.. a.. ish Message-ID: <1077124236.32644.98.camel@weka.localdomain> Any recommendations out there for good Nascom resources? I know nothing about these creatures; I went round to pick up a Torch floppy drive unit from someone a few days ago and they happened to ask if I wanted a Nascom before they threw it out... It's housed in the biggest, ugliest wooden case ever so that's going to have to go! The system board is a Nascom 2, whilst the PSU says Nascom 3a - maybe there was a crossover point when that practice was common? Inside there's just a system board and memory board, and no bus slots for anything more - is the bus anything standard and were other 3rd party boards typically added to these machines? It's complete apart from a broken reset key on the keyboard (luckily said key is seperate from the rest of the keys, so fitting any similar sized switch would not look out of place). The clock circuitry looks to be bodged to hell and back; there's even a bit of breadboard glued to the inside of the case with an IC plugged into it :-) Several stray wires are evident amongst the nest of ones which are still attached to things, so it'll be a while before I can see if I can get it running! Still, a curious one, and my first wooden cased computer. I'll have to keep an eye out for a better shell for it though... (actually I know where there's some antique furniture rotting in an abandoned manor house... I'll have to go looking for a suitable cabinet, maybe there's something there I can use :-) cheers Jules From vcf at siconic.com Wed Feb 18 11:45:10 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:31 2005 Subject: Parallel keyboard interfacing In-Reply-To: <40336C5B.8010709@jcwren.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 18 Feb 2004, J.C. Wren wrote: > With wires :) I don't have a copy around, but the original XT and > AT Technical guides have the schematics for the keyboard. I'm not sure > if the PS/2 did or not. Like most keyboard controllers, it's just a > row/column arrangement. Your biggest job would likely be cutting loose > all the matrix'ed connections on the original keyboard so you could > patch it into a matrix the PS/2 keyboard expects. Or design a little converter board with a PIC. Better yet, leave the Atari MB inside (if possible) and use THAT as the keyboard converter. Write a small program on the Atari that spits out converted keycodes from the Atari's serial port to the PS/2 port on the PC. Now THAT would be cool (if not a bit dysfunctional unfortunately). -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Wed Feb 18 11:50:37 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:31 2005 Subject: New find: Nascom.. umm 2.5.. a.. ish In-Reply-To: <1077124236.32644.98.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: On 18 Feb 2004, Jules Richardson wrote: > Any recommendations out there for good Nascom resources? Go to the VCF Link Library: http://www.vintage.org/links.php Type "nascom" in the search box and hit Search. Voila! :) > I know nothing about these creatures; I went round to pick up a Torch > floppy drive unit from someone a few days ago and they happened to ask > if I wanted a Nascom before they threw it out... Nice! > It's housed in the biggest, ugliest wooden case ever so that's going to > have to go! The system board is a Nascom 2, whilst the PSU says Nascom Whatm and ruin its character? I would leave it intact, if only to serve as an example of how hobbyists sometimes made the ugliest enclosures for their computers. > 3a - maybe there was a crossover point when that practice was common? Or maybe this was a kludge made up by the previous owner. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Wed Feb 18 12:19:33 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:31 2005 Subject: New find: Nascom.. umm 2.5.. a.. ish In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1077127564.32644.108.camel@weka.localdomain> On Wed, 2004-02-18 at 17:50, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On 18 Feb 2004, Jules Richardson wrote: > > > Any recommendations out there for good Nascom resources? > > Go to the VCF Link Library: ta :) > > It's housed in the biggest, ugliest wooden case ever so that's going to > > have to go! The system board is a Nascom 2, whilst the PSU says Nascom > > Whatm and ruin its character? I would leave it intact, if only to serve > as an example of how hobbyists sometimes made the ugliest enclosures for > their computers. hehe - if I had the space I would; but it's bigger than two modern PC tower cases bolted together, all for the sake of two boards and a PSU though! :) It's also built out of plywood and every screw seems to be different (and most of them are rusty). It doesn't have much character to ruin ;-) cheers Jules From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Wed Feb 18 11:33:28 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:31 2005 Subject: DNS woes (was Re: 50Hz vs 60Hz fixed drive speed ?) In-Reply-To: <004401c3f61a$ca3417a0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> References: <004401c3f61a$ca3417a0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <200402181807.NAA00936@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > As of late I have noticed that more and more major mail servers will > not process mail from any server [whose] forward and reverse dns do > not match exactly. And good for them, I say. Too many places have been sloppy about rDNS for too long. > That's not a big deal, but the way some (AOL) are doing it, does > violate RFC's. Specifically, even if the forward and reverses DO > match, but the reverse lookup provides aliases as well, they will > toss it. Provides aliases in the sense of returning multiple PTRs, or in the sense of passing through a CNAME? I mention this because you say > However, this breaks an RFC-specified way of handling delegation of > subnets on uneven boundaries. which sounds like RFC2317 delegation, ie, CNAMEs. But my rDNS is done 2317-style, and I've had no trouble sending to AOL (though admittedly I don't do it much). I note that your list message was emitted from 209.83.143.147. Chasing the DNS by hand, with a human's tolerance for mistakes, I find that this has the name ssh.kwcorp.com. My nameserver, though, returns SERVFAIL when queried for PTR records for it. I conjecture that this is because when the savvis.net servers (who own 143.83.209.in-addr.arpa) are queried for 147.143.83.209.in-addr.arpa, they return NS records naming dns1.anet-stl.com, but this is, strictly, a lame delegation; dns1 and dns2 .anet-stl.com do not in fact serve 147.143.83.209.in-addr.arpa - they return non-authoritative answers showing yet other nameservers. That is, I suspect the problem arises because of the attempt to delegate the same zone cut (the one at 143.83.209.in-addr.arpa) twice, rather than because of aliases - I find neither multiple-PTR nor CNAME involvement here. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Wed Feb 18 12:21:52 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:31 2005 Subject: New find: Nascom.. umm 2.5.. a.. ish In-Reply-To: <1077124236.32644.98.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Jules Richardson > Sent: 18 February 2004 17:11 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: New find: Nascom.. umm 2.5.. a.. ish > > Any recommendations out there for good Nascom resources? How about the Nascom homepage? www.nascom.info. > It's housed in the biggest, ugliest wooden case ever so > that's going to have to go! The system board is a Nascom 2, What?! You can't chuck the case out, it's part of the machine and a great example of how people used to build their own stuff back in those days. Does it look anything like this one? (the wooden one, not the plastic one) http://www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk/Museum/Nascom/nascom2/nascom2.php > whilst the PSU says Nascom 3a - maybe there was a crossover > point when that practice was common? The 3a was part of the Lucas Nascom 3 but they're all the same anyway. > Inside there's just a system board and memory board, and no > bus slots for anything more - is the bus anything standard > and were other 3rd party boards typically added to these machines? Sorta, but not to the extent of say the Microtan 65. I've got full nascom 2 documentation if you want detailed answers to owt. > place). The clock circuitry looks to be bodged to hell and > back; there's even a bit of breadboard glued to the inside of > the case with an IC plugged into it :-) Several stray wires > are evident amongst the nest of ones which are still attached > to things, so it'll be a while before I can see if I can get > it running! Sounds like a grand old machine :) Also it sounds like another reason why you can't get rid of the case! Can you do pictures for us? The machine itself should run on +5V with nothing more than the main board connected to a telly, 'course it depends on where the maze of wiring ends up doesn't it..... > furniture rotting in an abandoned manor house... I'll have to > go looking for a suitable cabinet, maybe there's something > there I can use :-) Nah, ugly can be good :) Cya -- Adrian/Witchy Owner & Webmaster, Binary Dinosaurs www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From jwest at classiccmp.org Wed Feb 18 12:13:11 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:31 2005 Subject: DNS woes (was Re: 50Hz vs 60Hz fixed drive speed ?) References: <004401c3f61a$ca3417a0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <200402181807.NAA00936@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <00e701c3f64a$de993060$033310ac@kwcorp.com> It was written... > And good for them, I say. Too many places have been sloppy about rDNS > for too long. I agree, to a point. The powers that be FINALLY required reverse entries for everything, utilized or not. That is a good thing. However, refusing an RFC sanctioned query return is "bad". > Provides aliases in the sense of returning multiple PTRs, or in the > sense of passing through a CNAME? I mention this because you say If the reverse lookup returns a real fixed hostname that matches the forward lookup, but it still ALSO lists aliases, they refuse it. That is silly. > I note that your list message was emitted from 209.83.143.147. Everything you mention here is not what I was referring to - because the mail you checked was sent from a customer site who I do not handle DNS for :) I was referring to my hosting/colocation business which does get delegation on even subnet boundaries. Jay West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From vcf at siconic.com Wed Feb 18 12:31:17 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:31 2005 Subject: New find: Nascom.. umm 2.5.. a.. ish In-Reply-To: <1077127564.32644.108.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: On 18 Feb 2004, Jules Richardson wrote: > hehe - if I had the space I would; but it's bigger than two modern PC > tower cases bolted together, all for the sake of two boards and a PSU > though! :) > > It's also built out of plywood and every screw seems to be different > (and most of them are rusty). It doesn't have much character to ruin ;-) Are you kidding? That has character GALORE! I'm being serious! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Wed Feb 18 12:34:11 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:31 2005 Subject: New find: Nascom.. umm 2.5.. a.. ish In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 18 Feb 2004, Witchy wrote: > What?! You can't chuck the case out, it's part of the machine and a great > example of how people used to build their own stuff back in those days. Does > it look anything like this one? (the wooden one, not the plastic one) > > http://www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk/Museum/Nascom/nascom2/nascom2.php Now that is one gorgeous box! How deliciously quaint :) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From lists at microvax.org Wed Feb 18 12:48:12 2004 From: lists at microvax.org (meltie) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:31 2005 Subject: New find: Nascom.. umm 2.5.. a.. ish In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200402181848.13149.lists@microvax.org> On Wednesday 18 February 2004 18:21, Witchy wrote: > Nah, ugly can be good :) Tell me about ugly, I think most VAXen are gorgeous... alex/melt From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Wed Feb 18 12:49:56 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:31 2005 Subject: Wooden cases (was: New find: Nascom) Message-ID: Jules' message about ugly wooden cases made me think about the Tangerine Microtan 65 I had in the back of the car the last time we met. Top quality case, designed to withstand being trampled by a herd of Wildebeeste I think. http://www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk/Museum/Tangerine/DSCF5879.JPG Yes, that's an Apple ][ keyboard :) On top is the T.U.G ROMboard (1981), a blinkenlights panel and an Eprom blower that are both connected to internal serial ports on the TANEX expansion board. The machine came with the ASCII keyboard and the original Tangerine Hex keypad and the case features RF, power and keyboard connectors. Inside is the PSU, Microtan itself and the TANEX on a 2 slot backplane. Marvellous :) -- Adrian/Witchy Owner & Webmaster, Binary Dinosaurs www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From tomj at wps.com Wed Feb 18 13:10:45 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:31 2005 Subject: Smoke on the Horizon... oh s**t! In-Reply-To: References: <0402162039.AA15322@ivan.Harhan.ORG> <1077057941.2496.19.camel@dhcp-249187> Message-ID: <1077130647.2049.23.camel@dhcp-248046> On Tue, 2004-02-17 at 15:45, Mark Tapley wrote: > >Seriously, I think you just have to change them often, eg. decadely. > >(That's a perfectly cromulent word.) > "Decadely" I accept, it makes sense by analogy with "weekly". > But "cromulent"? Communication is not being served. Got a synonym I > can look up? Sheesh, don't all you people watch THE SIMPSONS? How do you make it through the week?! cctalk content: it's > 10 yrs old now. > >I think spacecraft programmers know about this sort of thing, but you > >could probably design a power supply that presupposed possible failures > >like this, but basically no one but us lunatics care about electronic > >objects lasting more than five, never mind 10 or 20 years. > > It's not guaranteed, even there. There are spacecraft instruments in > build with single capacitors in a circuit where fail-short means the > instrument can't turn on. (But I bet they derate that single cap :-) > Same job could have been done with two > capacitors in series. Then if either fails short, the circuit still > works. (It might exceed its timing spec, but it'll work.) In fact I > have caused that addition to be made in some instruments and power > supplies, but the design engineers don't seem to learn easily. And > there are some I didn't get to review until "too late" in the design > cycle. Sigh. Good trick. Design-for-failure isn't a popular subject in cost-sensitive, quick-to-market business, but it's fascinating work. I'm working with 5th-year EE students who don't even know how to make real-world input protection networks, or do real bypassing, but boy can they crank out SPICE simulations of CMOS gates. You should see their solenoid driver designs -- >shudder<. Never heard of inductive power resistors. Reading the fine print in capacitor specs? Fat chance. We're all doomed. From wh.sudbrink at verizon.net Wed Feb 18 13:03:01 2004 From: wh.sudbrink at verizon.net (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:31 2005 Subject: New find: Nascom.. umm 2.5.. a.. ish In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > What?! You can't chuck the case out, it's part of the machine and a great > > example of how people used to build their own stuff back in those days. Does > > it look anything like this one? (the wooden one, not the plastic one) > > > > http://www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk/Museum/Nascom/nascom2/nascom2.php > > Now that is one gorgeous box! How deliciously quaint :) ;-) Catch Sellam next week on "Antique Computers Roadshow"... Gee, I'm sorry Mr. Smith. If it had its original finish and compliment of screws, it would be worth 14 million dollars. But, since someone "cleaned it up", it's only worth $1.98. I'm sure it's still very important to your family history and you'll treasure it always. From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Wed Feb 18 12:55:01 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:31 2005 Subject: DNS woes (was Re: 50Hz vs 60Hz fixed drive speed ?) In-Reply-To: <00e701c3f64a$de993060$033310ac@kwcorp.com> References: <004401c3f61a$ca3417a0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <200402181807.NAA00936@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <00e701c3f64a$de993060$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <200402181904.OAA01403@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> >> And good for them, I say. Too many places have been sloppy about >> rDNS for too long. > I agree, to a point. The powers that be FINALLY required reverse > entries for everything, utilized or not. There certainly is no such de-facto requirement, whatever there may be de-jure. Just now, for example, I did traceroutes to 218.16.120.204 and 221.4.203.28, two Chinese addresses I found involved in spam relatively recently. In each case, as soon as the trace hit Chinese address space, the routers had no rDNS at all - not just mismatched with forward DNS, but no names in sight. >> Provides aliases in the sense of returning multiple PTRs, or in the >> sense of passing through a CNAME? > If the reverse lookup returns a real fixed hostname that matches the > forward lookup, but it still ALSO lists aliases, they refuse it. Lists aliases in the sense of returning multiple PTRs, or in the sense of passing through a CNAME? If the former, do the other names also forward-resolve to the address in question? /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From jpl15 at panix.com Wed Feb 18 13:14:21 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:31 2005 Subject: Smoke on the Horizon... oh s**t! In-Reply-To: <1077130647.2049.23.camel@dhcp-248046> References: <0402162039.AA15322@ivan.Harhan.ORG> <1077057941.2496.19.camel@dhcp-249187> <1077130647.2049.23.camel@dhcp-248046> Message-ID: On Wed, 18 Feb 2004, Tom Jennings wrote: [much snippage] > I'm working with 5th-year EE students who don't even know how to make > real-world input protection networks, or do real bypassing, but boy can > they crank out SPICE simulations of CMOS gates. You should see their > solenoid driver designs -- >shudder<. Never heard of inductive power > resistors. Reading the fine print in capacitor specs? Fat chance. We're > all doomed. > > My Ex sent me an interesting article she dug up - basically how 40/50/60 year old analog engineers (who still want to work) are able to literally write their own ticket - starting salaries are in the $100K (US) range - entirely because of this syndrome. It's also interesting that Vietnam seems to be turning out very competent analog design Gurus - 'Nguyen Tranh, BSEE' translates to "You got it made, buddy!" I myself have fielded more than one juicy offer by various Gummint contractor companies - but I'm happy where I am. Nice to know that the Original Nerds are finally getting their Just Revenge.... Now where's that damn pocket protector... Cheers John (BSEE '71) From jwest at classiccmp.org Wed Feb 18 13:00:48 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:31 2005 Subject: DNS woes (was Re: 50Hz vs 60Hz fixed drive speed ?) References: <004401c3f61a$ca3417a0$033310ac@kwcorp.com><200402181807.NAA00936@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA><00e701c3f64a$de993060$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <200402181904.OAA01403@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <010d01c3f651$851d9c40$033310ac@kwcorp.com> You wrote... > There certainly is no such de-facto requirement, Yes, there is. ICANN (I think, maybe ARIN, forget the organization for sure which instigated it) now requires it or you get null routed. Of course, it's enforced via the "trickle down effect". > Just now, for example, I did traceroutes to 218.16.120.204 > and 221.4.203.28, two Chinese addresses I found involved in spam > relatively recently. Last I checked, Chinese internet didn't necessarily ascribe to all the rules. Suprising? > Lists aliases in the sense of returning multiple PTRs, or in the sense > of passing through a CNAME? A lookup on the IP address that shows the correct host name, matching the forward lookup, but which ALSO returns an "alias" as well as the hostname. This is what will get blocked by AOL, which includes the discussed RFC sanctioned mechanism for handling reverse delegation on uneven subnet boundaries. > If the former, do the other names also forward-resolve to the address > in question? Yes --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net Wed Feb 18 13:21:23 2004 From: cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:31 2005 Subject: Smoke on the Horizon... oh s**t! In-Reply-To: References: <0402162039.AA15322@ivan.Harhan.ORG> <1077057941.2496.19.camel@dhcp-249187> <1077130647.2049.23.camel@dhcp-248046> Message-ID: <1077132083.19800.15.camel@morden.cc.vt.edu> On Wed, 2004-02-18 at 14:14, John Lawson wrote: > Now where's that damn pocket protector... > Notes that his is sitting right under his monitor next to the slide rule. It is filled with drafting pens & pencils for use with the adjacent flow-chart template. -- Christopher L McNabb Tel: 540 231 7554 Operating Systems Analyst Email: cmcnabb@vt.edu Virginia Tech ICBM: 37.205622N 80.414595W GMRS: WPSR255 ARS: N2UX Grid Sq: EM97SD From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Wed Feb 18 13:37:30 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:31 2005 Subject: New find: Nascom.. umm 2.5.. a.. ish In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1077132241.32645.151.camel@weka.localdomain> On Wed, 2004-02-18 at 18:21, Witchy wrote: > What?! You can't chuck the case out, it's part of the machine and a great > example of how people used to build their own stuff back in those days. Does > it look anything like this one? (the wooden one, not the plastic one) > > http://www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk/Museum/Nascom/nascom2/nascom2.php heh, it's around twice that size. You could almost live in the damn thing :o) > > whilst the PSU says Nascom 3a - maybe there was a crossover > > point when that practice was common? > > The 3a was part of the Lucas Nascom 3 but they're all the same anyway. Just curious as to whether they ever sold the ns 2 boards with a 3a PSU, or whether that was a bodge by the person who built it (or even a later change) > Sorta, but not to the extent of say the Microtan 65. I've got full nascom 2 > documentation if you want detailed answers to owt. Ooh, ta. Will probs be useful when I come to try and get it into an operational state. > > place). The clock circuitry looks to be bodged to hell and > > back; there's even a bit of breadboard glued to the inside of > > the case with an IC plugged into it :-) Several stray wires > > are evident amongst the nest of ones which are still attached > > to things, so it'll be a while before I can see if I can get > > it running! > > Sounds like a grand old machine :) Also it sounds like another reason why > you can't get rid of the case! Can you do pictures for us? Yep, just bought a new camera the other day so I should be able to sort some pics out of stuff. I'm gonna have to find somewhere to host them too! > The machine > itself should run on +5V with nothing more than the main board connected to > a telly, 'course it depends on where the maze of wiring ends up doesn't > it..... aha, that's good to know though. At least I can eliminate the need to have the extra memory board plugged in then. I'm currently drowning in classic computer stuff that needs doing though (on top of everything else!) so getting the Nascom running is way down the pile! > > furniture rotting in an abandoned manor house... I'll have to > > go looking for a suitable cabinet, maybe there's something > > there I can use :-) > > Nah, ugly can be good :) Well I'm the first one to never throw anything out, particularly if it's anything classic (whether a computer or not). I'm wondering if the current case will come to bits so I can flat-store it. I think it's all screwed rather than nailed so unless it's been glued it should. That way I can build something smaller and of better quality to house the boards, but someone can always take it back to how it was originally built if they wanted. cheers Jules From vcf at siconic.com Wed Feb 18 13:42:44 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:31 2005 Subject: Smoke on the Horizon... oh s**t! In-Reply-To: <1077130647.2049.23.camel@dhcp-248046> Message-ID: On 18 Feb 2004, Tom Jennings wrote: > On Tue, 2004-02-17 at 15:45, Mark Tapley wrote: > > > >Seriously, I think you just have to change them often, eg. decadely. > > >(That's a perfectly cromulent word.) > > > "Decadely" I accept, it makes sense by analogy with "weekly". > > But "cromulent"? Communication is not being served. Got a synonym I > > can look up? > > Sheesh, don't all you people watch THE SIMPSONS? How do you make it > through the week?! cctalk content: it's > 10 yrs old now. It's all Southpark on my end. The Simpsons became boring to me about 10 years ago. Futurama is much better. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Wed Feb 18 13:56:21 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:32 2005 Subject: DNS woes (was Re: 50Hz vs 60Hz fixed drive speed ?) In-Reply-To: <010d01c3f651$851d9c40$033310ac@kwcorp.com> References: <004401c3f61a$ca3417a0$033310ac@kwcorp.com><200402181807.NAA00936@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA><00e701c3f64a$de993060$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <200402181904.OAA01403@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <010d01c3f651$851d9c40$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <200402182024.PAA02169@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> >> There certainly is no such de-facto requirement, > Yes, there is. ICANN (I think, maybe ARIN, forget the organization > for sure which instigated it) now requires it or you get null routed. Then why aren't all the hosts I see no rDNS for in China nullrouted? I think you missed the "de-facto" part of what I said. What you said sounds like a de-jure requirement, and anyone hwo actually looks for rDNS many places will see that there is no such de-facto requirement. And, it would have to be ICANN; ARIN has no jurisdiction outside North America. > Of course, it's enforced via the "trickle down effect". In practice, it simply isn't enforced - witness China - which is why I say that de-facto it's nonexistent at present. > Last I checked, Chinese internet didn't necessarily ascribe to all > the rules. Then why aren't they nullrouted? This comes back to the difference between the de-jure rqeuirement you cite and the observance of current reality, which is that there is no such requirement in practice. >> Lists aliases in the sense of returning multiple PTRs, or in the >> sense of passing through a CNAME? > A lookup on the IP address that shows the correct host name, matching > the forward lookup, but which ALSO returns an "alias" as well as the > hostname. As additional PTR records, or as names to which CNAMEs, pointing to the real PTR-owning names, are attached? Either one could reasonably be called aliases, and there is a huge difference. > This is what will get blocked by AOL, which includes the discussed > RFC sanctioned mechanism for handling reverse delegation on uneven > subnet boundaries. >> If the former, do the other names also forward-resolve to the >> address in question? > Yes Now I'm confused. I can't figure out what you're describing. The only RFC I'm aware of that could be behind the "RFC sanctioned mechanism" is 2317, but that one describes the CNAME way, and nobody competent enough to get that right is likely to put in A records for the intermediate CNAMEs. What is the address of the mailhost in question? That way I can just poke at the DNS and see what's really there.... /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From donm at cts.com Wed Feb 18 15:14:57 2004 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:32 2005 Subject: Applicard In-Reply-To: <001601c3f5e3$55cbd970$a404fea9@Vaio> Message-ID: On Wed, 18 Feb 2004, RIchard Lehun wrote: > I know it is a long time ago, but you still have the applicard? > > Thanks No, sorry Richard, long gone! - don From JKargoll at Cox.net Wed Feb 18 15:30:00 2004 From: JKargoll at Cox.net (James Kargoll) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:32 2005 Subject: Some time ago Message-ID: You were asking for voltage on a Techstep. I have a complete unit including Carrying Case, Diagnostic software, testing modules for the Classic, SE, SE 30, II, IIx and IIcx as well as SCSI interface testing to HD. Please let me know if you or someone is in the need to purchase. From john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org Wed Feb 18 09:27:48 2004 From: john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org (John Boffemmyer IV) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:32 2005 Subject: OT looking for info on Linux Antivirus Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.2.20040218102517.02466ed0@mail.n.ml.org> I recently got my damned Linux box up and running and fully plan on using it as a web/email server. Is there a decent and as close to free as possible (hey, I admit it, I'm poor) antivirus that supports scanning of email on the server? -John ---------------------------------------- Founder, Lead Writer, Tech Analyst and Web Designer Boff-Net Technologies http://boff-net.dhs.org/index.html --------------------------------------- From sjhill at realitydiluted.com Wed Feb 18 13:17:08 2004 From: sjhill at realitydiluted.com (Steven J. Hill) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:32 2005 Subject: Looking for old SGI magazines... Message-ID: <4033BA34.5010103@realitydiluted.com> Greetings. I discovered on Google that about a year or more ago, you had copies of SGI Pipeline magazine and such. Any remote chance you still have this stuff? Thanks. -Steve From WilcoxNS at nv.doe.gov Wed Feb 18 12:05:56 2004 From: WilcoxNS at nv.doe.gov (Wilcox, Nicholas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:32 2005 Subject: UP600 Software Message-ID: <09AE3D324A22D511A1A50002A5289F21011A46DA@lao-exchpo1-nt.nv.doe.gov> I read your message on one of the boards and was wondering if this offer is still avalible: " I also have a copy of the UP600 software :)". Anything dealing with the UP600 would be great. NIck From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Wed Feb 18 16:17:36 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:32 2005 Subject: For free: TRS-80, software, manuals etc. (Cambridge UK) In-Reply-To: <200402181517.i1IFHn6A071960@mailserver1.hushmail.com> References: <200402181517.i1IFHn6A071960@mailserver1.hushmail.com> Message-ID: <1077141848.32645.156.camel@weka.localdomain> On Wed, 2004-02-18 at 15:17, Mike Shaw wrote: > I definitely want it! What do I need to do? Still available, due to the problem of the rather large pond between Mike and I :-) (Actually I always got the impression TRS-80's were easy to pick up in the US; I guess not...) cheers Jules From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Wed Feb 18 16:23:57 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:32 2005 Subject: OT looking for info on Linux Antivirus In-Reply-To: <6.0.3.0.2.20040218102517.02466ed0@mail.n.ml.org> References: <6.0.3.0.2.20040218102517.02466ed0@mail.n.ml.org> Message-ID: <1077142229.32645.163.camel@weka.localdomain> On Wed, 2004-02-18 at 15:27, John Boffemmyer IV wrote: > I recently got my damned Linux box up and running and fully plan on using > it as a web/email server. Is there a decent and as close to free as > possible (hey, I admit it, I'm poor) antivirus that supports scanning of > email on the server? not that I know of... but if you can get rid of Windows on the desktop then that pretty much solves the problem too :-) I just ditch all the virus traffic on the client in the same way that I do the spam. You could always set up procmail on the server to filter messages with attachments based on size (or other rules) I suppose, but maintaining it might be a chore, and it still doesn't solve the problem if people are sending you binaries that are legitimate but *might* be infected. cheers Jules From brianmahoney at look.ca Wed Feb 18 16:16:49 2004 From: brianmahoney at look.ca (Brian Mahoney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:32 2005 Subject: OS/2 Warp question - MPTS? Message-ID: <001b01c3f66c$f9c14680$0200a8c0@look.ca> Just got a copy of OS/2 Warp version 3 with the Bonus Pack. (on diskette ... ) Loaded it to a notebook I have, 486sx - 8 megs , seems to run just fine. Problem is getting it onto my LAN and the Internet. Win 95 worked fine on this notebook, slow but fine, and I'd like to see what OS/2 looks like on the 'net. Unlike most everyone here, I am NOT a rocket scientist and I'm wondering if there is a fairly simple download or something that would let the notebook see the LAN. The manual says something about needing a LAN server and MPTS. Thanks! From jismay at unixboxen.net Wed Feb 18 16:42:02 2004 From: jismay at unixboxen.net (J Brian Ismay) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:32 2005 Subject: OT looking for info on Linux Antivirus In-Reply-To: <6.0.3.0.2.20040218102517.02466ed0@mail.n.ml.org> References: <6.0.3.0.2.20040218102517.02466ed0@mail.n.ml.org> Message-ID: <35246.68.5.101.98.1077144122.squirrel@webmail.unixboxen.com> I would recommend clamav. http://clamav.elektrapro.com For integration with mail, you can find instructions for using it with qmail at: http://www.qmailrocks.com > I recently got my damned Linux box up and running and fully plan on using > it as a web/email server. Is there a decent and as close to free as > possible (hey, I admit it, I'm poor) antivirus that supports scanning of > email on the server? > -John > > ---------------------------------------- > Founder, Lead Writer, Tech Analyst > and Web Designer Boff-Net Technologies > http://boff-net.dhs.org/index.html > --------------------------------------- > > > To Sleep, Perchance to Dream. For in that sleep of death what dreams may come when we shuffle off this mortal coil must give us pause From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Wed Feb 18 16:46:49 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:32 2005 Subject: New find: Nascom.. umm 2.5.. a.. ish In-Reply-To: <1077132241.32645.151.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Jules Richardson > Sent: 18 February 2004 19:24 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: RE: New find: Nascom.. umm 2.5.. a.. ish > > > http://www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk/Museum/Nascom/nascom2/nascom2.php > > heh, it's around twice that size. You could almost live in > the damn thing :o) Kinnell, what lives in the extra space? Rats? :) > Just curious as to whether they ever sold the ns 2 boards > with a 3a PSU, or whether that was a bodge by the person who > built it (or even a later change) No idea. Mick at the Nascom pages might have some thoughts though. > Ooh, ta. Will probs be useful when I come to try and get it > into an operational state. They're easily grabbable so just let me know. I just hope that I haven't either moved or tidied before you get the chance to give the machine the once-over. I had a photographer over from The Independent today who spent 90 mins or so taking pictures of some of my collection for an article in saturday's edition, so this morning was a tidying frenzy to actually get some floorspace back :) > Yep, just bought a new camera the other day so I should be > able to sort some pics out of stuff. I'm gonna have to find > somewhere to host them too! I've got space if you get stuck. > currently drowning in classic computer stuff that needs doing > though (on top of everything > else!) so getting the Nascom running is way down the pile! You'll be stuffed when you get another job :oD > That way I can build something smaller and of better quality > to house the boards, but someone can always take it back to > how it was originally built if they wanted. *looks over to glued Microtan box* Good job I don't want to separate that one innit! Cheers -- Adrian/Witchy Owner & Webmaster, Binary Dinosaurs www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Feb 18 16:54:18 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:32 2005 Subject: OS/2 Warp question - MPTS? In-Reply-To: <001b01c3f66c$f9c14680$0200a8c0@look.ca> from "Brian Mahoney" at Feb 18, 2004 05:16:49 PM Message-ID: <200402182254.i1IMsIjK024906@onyx.spiritone.com> > Just got a copy of OS/2 Warp version 3 with the Bonus Pack. (on diskette ... ) > Loaded it to a notebook I have, 486sx - 8 megs , seems to run just fine. Problem is getting it onto my LAN and the Internet. Win 95 worked fine on this notebook, slow but fine, and I'd like to see what OS/2 looks like on the 'net. > Unlike most everyone here, I am NOT a rocket scientist and I'm wondering if there is a fairly simple download or something that would let the notebook see the LAN. The manual says something about needing a LAN server and MPTS. Thanks! One thing to check is if you have a supported ethernet adapter or not. At least in V3 the included support for NICs is very limited. Zane From teoz at neo.rr.com Wed Feb 18 17:26:56 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:32 2005 Subject: OS/2 Warp question - MPTS? References: <200402182254.i1IMsIjK024906@onyx.spiritone.com> Message-ID: <005701c3f676$b32f6f30$0500fea9@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Zane H. Healy" To: Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2004 5:54 PM Subject: Re: OS/2 Warp question - MPTS? > > Just got a copy of OS/2 Warp version 3 with the Bonus Pack. (on diskette ... ) > > Loaded it to a notebook I have, 486sx - 8 megs , seems to run just fine. Problem is getting it onto my LAN and the Internet. Win 95 worked fine on this notebook, slow but fine, and I'd like to see what OS/2 looks like on the 'net. > > Unlike most everyone here, I am NOT a rocket scientist and I'm wondering if there is a fairly simple download or something that would let the notebook see the LAN. The manual says something about needing a LAN server and MPTS. Thanks! > > One thing to check is if you have a supported ethernet adapter or not. At > least in V3 the included support for NICs is very limited. > > Zane > Warp 3 didn't really have support for TCP/IP networking and internet (it can connect from dialup modem) use unless you purchased warp 3 connect, warp 4 has internet connectivity via network built in. Either way your going to need a few fixpacks after installing warp to get any newer software to install. From willisj at atlantis.clogic-int.com Wed Feb 18 17:15:39 2004 From: willisj at atlantis.clogic-int.com (John Willis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:32 2005 Subject: OS/2 Warp question - MPTS? In-Reply-To: <005701c3f676$b32f6f30$0500fea9@game> from Teo Zenios at Feb "18, " 2004 "06:26:56" pm Message-ID: <200402182315.QAA19684@atlantis.clogic-int.com> To get any sort of networking on a non "Connect" version of Warp 3, you'll need to download MS Lan Manager client from their ftp site (ftp.microsoft.com). This includes drivers for most NIC cards... although I'm not sure how good its support of PCMCIA NIC cards is. However, I have found that most newer Linksys (and comparable) NIC cards still have OS/2 drivers available (though you may have to look for them). Configuring MS LAN Manager can be tricky, and I would highly reccommend looking for a copy of Warp Connect. You can install the networking portion of it without installing the whole OS from scratch. I have a system running both Warp 3 connect and Warp 4. Plays quite nicely on my LAN, running the latest fix paks and Mozilla's latest browsers. -- John Willis UNIX Systems Administrator Associate Lockheed Martin IS&S CEO and Co-Founder Coherent Logic Development http://www.coherent-logic.com/ willisj@atlantis.clogic-int.com From dholland at woh.rr.com Wed Feb 18 19:15:36 2004 From: dholland at woh.rr.com (David Holland) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:32 2005 Subject: OT looking for info on Linux Antivirus In-Reply-To: <1077142229.32645.163.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <6.0.3.0.2.20040218102517.02466ed0@mail.n.ml.org> <1077142229.32645.163.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <1077153336.1286.16.camel@crusader.localdomain.home> If you are feeling brave enough you can: Configure sendmail to handle your mail properly, Configure Spam Assassin, and MimeDefang to hook into your email, strip "bad" attachments, and scan attachments with various Linux virus scanners. The sendmail configuration is the worst part. I've still not quite got it working the way I want it to. Anyways, the one command line virus scanner I played with was "McAfee VirusScan Command Line Scanner for Linux"... Unfortunately, I've seen pricing for McAfee's virus scanner, but should you want to dink with it, there is a eval available here: http://www.nai.com/us/downloads/evals/#McAfee The wife uses Windoze on her Laptop, and I filter all her mail w/ the above setup. (It mostly works but not completely. :-? ) David On Wed, 2004-02-18 at 17:10, Jules Richardson wrote: > On Wed, 2004-02-18 at 15:27, John Boffemmyer IV wrote: > > I recently got my damned Linux box up and running and fully plan on using > > it as a web/email server. Is there a decent and as close to free as > > possible (hey, I admit it, I'm poor) antivirus that supports scanning of > > email on the server? > > not that I know of... but if you can get rid of Windows on the desktop > then that pretty much solves the problem too :-) > > I just ditch all the virus traffic on the client in the same way that I > do the spam. You could always set up procmail on the server to filter > messages with attachments based on size (or other rules) I suppose, but > maintaining it might be a chore, and it still doesn't solve the problem > if people are sending you binaries that are legitimate but *might* be > infected. > > cheers > > Jules > From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Wed Feb 18 19:38:12 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:32 2005 Subject: Smoke on the Horizon... oh s**t! References: Message-ID: <40341384.4090001@jetnet.ab.ca> Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > It's all Southpark on my end. The Simpsons became boring to me about 10 > years ago. Futurama is much better. I don't like satire, so I will stick to Japanese Animation. Mind You this hobby is almost as expensive as Computers or Real Electronics. PS. The Nascom 2's do look nice since home brewing today means umm ... putting your computer into a neon light case and running RED HAT LINUX. From spc at conman.org Wed Feb 18 19:42:40 2004 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:32 2005 Subject: OT looking for info on Linux Antivirus In-Reply-To: <1077153336.1286.16.camel@crusader.localdomain.home> from "David Holland" at Feb 18, 2004 08:15:36 PM Message-ID: <20040219014240.755F210B26A5@swift.conman.org> It was thus said that the Great David Holland once stated: > > If you are feeling brave enough you can: > > Configure sendmail to handle your mail properly, > Configure Spam Assassin, and MimeDefang to hook into your email, strip > "bad" attachments, and scan attachments with various Linux virus > scanners. > > The sendmail configuration is the worst part. I've still not quite got > it working the way I want it to. Skip sendmail. It's a walking security hole just waiting to happen. Instead try postfix (http://www.postfix.org/). The configuration is way saner, and it comes with "sendmail" compatible programs so nothing else on the system has to change (there's still a sendmail executable, a mailq program, etc). And I think there are more options for anti-spam with postfix (or at least, easier to integrate) than with sendmail. -spc (I was finally conviced to switch after I think two sendmail exploits in a row ... ) From classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk Wed Feb 18 20:14:07 2004 From: classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk (Rob O'Donnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:32 2005 Subject: OS/2 Warp question - MPTS? In-Reply-To: <001b01c3f66c$f9c14680$0200a8c0@look.ca> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20040219020923.036fbfb8@pop.freeserve.net> At 17:16 18/02/2004 -0500, Brian Mahoney wrote: >Just got a copy of OS/2 Warp version 3 with the Bonus Pack. (on diskette ... ) If you, or anybody, wants it, I've got Warp 3 + Bonus pack on CD. It's actually a freebie 45 day trial edition, but no idea if that's avoidable.... Cost of postage (from UK) and it's yours. Rob From dvcorbin at optonline.net Wed Feb 18 20:25:25 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:32 2005 Subject: Aargh...It never ends.. In-Reply-To: <1077153336.1286.16.camel@crusader.localdomain.home> Message-ID: Ducking and running as I post this.... http://techrepublic.com.com/5208-6230-0.html?forumID=10&threadID=147374&mess ageID=1579357 From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Feb 18 20:33:42 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:32 2005 Subject: NCD Explora 451 Message-ID: <200402190233.i1J2XgFa031726@onyx.spiritone.com> Does anyone happen to know the spec's for a NCD Explora 451's power brick? I just got one minus the power brick :^( I can't wait to try it out, it looks like it's just the sort of device I've been wanting to get my hands on as a VT420 replacement. Based on the spec's it looks like it talks LAT and X-Windows out of the box :^) And even has VT320 emulation and will take a DEC PS/2 keyboard :^) Zane From brianmahoney at look.ca Wed Feb 18 20:42:35 2004 From: brianmahoney at look.ca (Brian Mahoney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:32 2005 Subject: OS/2 Warp question - MPTS? References: <5.1.1.6.0.20040219020923.036fbfb8@pop.freeserve.net> Message-ID: <000d01c3f692$19d5b580$0200a8c0@look.ca> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rob O'Donnell" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2004 9:14 PM Subject: Re: OS/2 Warp question - MPTS? > At 17:16 18/02/2004 -0500, Brian Mahoney wrote: > > >Just got a copy of OS/2 Warp version 3 with the Bonus Pack. (on diskette ... ) > > > If you, or anybody, wants it, I've got Warp 3 + Bonus pack on CD. It's > actually a freebie 45 day trial edition, but no idea if that's avoidable.... > > Cost of postage (from UK) and it's yours. > > Rob > Thanks for the offer Rob. I think I will muck around with the MS Lan suggested earlier as well as FreeTCP. I doubt that the IBM browser will be able to keep up with anything on the net these days but it will be fun to try. CD would be attractive though, must have taken me two hours to load on floppies. :) Thanks again. From dvcorbin at optonline.net Wed Feb 18 20:47:51 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:32 2005 Subject: NCD Explora 451 In-Reply-To: <200402190233.i1J2XgFa031726@onyx.spiritone.com> Message-ID: Don't have the specs handy, but you should be able to get them firecd from NCD. Also there is a Linux port available for that box! >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org >>> [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Zane H. Healy >>> Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2004 9:34 PM >>> To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >>> Subject: NCD Explora 451 >>> >>> Does anyone happen to know the spec's for a NCD Explora >>> 451's power brick? >>> I just got one minus the power brick :^( I can't wait to >>> try it out, it looks like it's just the sort of device I've >>> been wanting to get my hands on as a VT420 replacement. >>> Based on the spec's it looks like it talks LAT and >>> X-Windows out of the box :^) And even has VT320 emulation >>> and will take a DEC PS/2 keyboard :^) >>> >>> Zane From evan947 at yahoo.com Wed Feb 18 20:43:27 2004 From: evan947 at yahoo.com (evan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:32 2005 Subject: Sharp Pocket Diary ? Message-ID: <20040219024327.7471.qmail@web14007.mail.yahoo.com> Does anybody have one of these or even know anything about it? All I know is that it existed back in 1975. Desperately seeking more information... - Evan K. From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Feb 18 20:50:56 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:32 2005 Subject: NCD Explora 451 In-Reply-To: from "David V. Corbin" at Feb 18, 2004 09:47:51 PM Message-ID: <200402190250.i1J2ouwb031996@onyx.spiritone.com> > Don't have the specs handy, but you should be able to get them firecd from > NCD. I've been looking at the NCD website, but they don't seem to mention anything about the power brick. Zane From rcini at optonline.net Wed Feb 18 20:55:30 2004 From: rcini at optonline.net (Richard A. Cini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:32 2005 Subject: Looking for Windows NT book Message-ID: <000001c3f693$d652c580$8201a8c0@bbrdhveies50vd> Hello, all: I'm looking for the following books. I've checked the usual sellers (ABEs and Powell's) and they seems hard to get. The book is called "Windows NT Internals Revealed" by Mark Russinovich. ISBN is 0764580329. The other is "Inside Windows NT" by David Solomon ISBN 1572316772. If anyone has spare copies of either book they'd we willing to part with, please contact me off list. Thanks. Rich Rich Cini Collector of classic computers Build Master for the Altair32 Emulation Project Web site: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ /************************************************************/ From rdd at rddavis.org Wed Feb 18 22:52:10 2004 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:32 2005 Subject: To change a lightbulb and move a VAX Message-ID: <20040219044506.GB13924@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Earlier this evening, I went down the basement to do some laundry and noticed that one of the lightbulbs had burned out, over where I keep some of my computer equipment. I only walked back there with the intention of changing the light bulb, but, after the discussions about VMS and VAXen, I noticed my VAX 4000-200 sitting, all forlorn, under the basement steps, and underneath a TRS-80, which was underneath an HP 9825B. The VAX deserved better than that, to be closer to my sound equipment, PERQs, Sun Sparcserver 1000, Sun Ultra, Sun 4/110 and it's stack of four shoeboxes, a Microvax and PowerMacs, etc. Moving it, however, wasn't easy, but I didn't think about that. Firstly, there was a rather narrow passagway in front of the VAX---just, barely, wide enough for the VAX, since opposite the VAX is shelving. Just past the shelves is a not-easily movable tall file cabinet, just inside the area where I wanted to move the VAX to. One little problem: to get the VAX to its destination, I couldn't move the filecabinet too easily (no place to move it to!). Caddycorner to file cabinet was a stack of equipment consisting of: as a base, a MicroVAX and Sun 3/150; sitting horizontally on top of those was a Sun 4/110, and on top of that were three Sun shoeboxes and one aftermarket shoebox. Atop the four shoeboxes was a Sun Ultra-1, and on top of that an 8mm tape drive. That entire stack was a few inches too close to the file cabinet to get the VAX through, even if removed from its base. I ended up disassembling that entire stack, and cabling, moving it back some distance, and reassembling it. But wait, that wasn't all of the fun! :-) Where I wanted to put the VAX was another pile of equipment, consisting of an HP-9000/300, an Apollo DN3500, a Sun 3/60, an IBM PC-AT and, on top of that, the little lightweight (sarcasm intended) Sun SparcServer 1000, with a PC monitor on top of that. The SparcStation 1000 now sits atop the VAX, with the other equipment being put where the VAX was. All of that was done in very cramped quarters... reminds me of that little game where one shuffles the little red and white numbered squares about to get them in the right order. All that work just because a light-bulb needed changing! Sound familiar? BTW, it only took one day for Encompass to issue my new membership ID. :-) -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From wmaddox at pacbell.net Thu Feb 19 01:08:42 2004 From: wmaddox at pacbell.net (William Maddox) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:32 2005 Subject: HP 1000 RTE-A User Manual Set on Ebay Message-ID: <00f901c3f6b7$3509ab20$1000a8c0@winxpsp1a2100> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2597174371&category=40121 From hilpert at cs.ubc.ca Thu Feb 19 03:27:48 2004 From: hilpert at cs.ubc.ca (Brent Hilpert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:32 2005 Subject: Help needed identifying boards References: <200402160234.05689.pat@computer-refuge.org> <200402171252.14398.pat@computer-refuge.org> <3.0.6.32.20040217162444.00863bf0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <40348193.8921F9C2@cs.ubc.ca> The board "HP-02116-6119_H_741_6" is identical in form,layout and bus connections (as far as can be discerned from the photo) to the time base generator board in my HP 2116C computer, although the part number in the upper left corner of my board is different (12539-60001). According to the manual for the 12539 from Al's site the 12539 is for the 2100,2114,2115 and 2116 computers. There seems to be some confusion between the 'interface kit' number and the HP part number, perhaps the version you have is earlier, for the 2116 and before the 2100 existed. (My 12539 is from ~1971,72 based on the IC date codes.) It is, as Joe said, a programmable timed interrupt generator. Many of the ICs on the board are (obsolete,difficult to find(?)) CTL logic as per discussion of several weeks ago. Given the 16 transistors/component sets on the "HP-12604-60001" I'd guess it's a 16 bit I/O port or dual 8-bit I/O port (also for the 21xx machines). From brad at heeltoe.com Thu Feb 19 05:31:33 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:32 2005 Subject: NCD Explora 451 In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 18 Feb 2004 18:33:42 PST." <200402190233.i1J2XgFa031726@onyx.spiritone.com> Message-ID: <200402191131.i1JBVXJ12093@mwave.heeltoe.com> "Zane H. Healy" wrote: >Does anyone happen to know the spec's for a NCD Explora 451's power brick? >I just got one minus the power brick :^( I can't wait to try it out, it >looks like it's just the sort of device I've been wanting to get my hands on >as a VT420 replacement. Based on the spec's it looks like it talks LAT and >X-Windows out of the box :^) And even has VT320 emulation and will take a >DEC PS/2 keyboard :^) I believe it's just stock 12v. I think there is a switcher on the PCB. I have several here - I'll check. I did a really basic linux port to it several years ago. I never got the video to work, however, as I needed help with the custom CPLD which acts as a PCI bridge. I was close but not quite there. The folks at NCI never responded to anything (very frustrating). One guy said his roommate had all the docs but couldn't say anything. mumble. I think there is a freebsd port which works becuase it leaves the video in the same mode. It downloads it's own software, so you'll need the s/w on tftp server. It can also read it from a pcmicia memory card, if you have one of those. I believe they are simple 1-8mb flash memory cards (i.e. not ide). [I think there should be a law that once you drop support for the product you have to put the software and docs in the public domain ;-)] -brad From thedm at sunflower.com Thu Feb 19 06:42:16 2004 From: thedm at sunflower.com (Bill Girnius) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:32 2005 Subject: OS/2 Warp question - MPTS? References: <5.1.1.6.0.20040219020923.036fbfb8@pop.freeserve.net> <000d01c3f692$19d5b580$0200a8c0@look.ca> Message-ID: <005b01c3f6e5$d15b4870$6501a8c0@barton> I used to support a Warp 3.0 network. It dosn't come with any LAN support only tcpip with a modem. IBM used to sell a cute LAN setup program, here are the details and how to make it work now. THis seems much more convoluded than I remember, it seems the setup I used to use was a 4 disk install program and was very easy but I can't remember what it was called. http://www.yale.edu/pclt/WINWORLD/OS2MPTS.HTM ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Mahoney" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2004 8:42 PM Subject: Re: OS/2 Warp question - MPTS? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rob O'Donnell" > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2004 9:14 PM > Subject: Re: OS/2 Warp question - MPTS? > > > > At 17:16 18/02/2004 -0500, Brian Mahoney wrote: > > > > >Just got a copy of OS/2 Warp version 3 with the Bonus Pack. (on diskette > ... ) > > > > > > If you, or anybody, wants it, I've got Warp 3 + Bonus pack on CD. It's > > actually a freebie 45 day trial edition, but no idea if that's > avoidable.... > > > > Cost of postage (from UK) and it's yours. > > > > Rob > > > Thanks for the offer Rob. I think I will muck around with the MS Lan > suggested earlier as well as FreeTCP. I doubt that the IBM browser will be > able to keep up with anything on the net these days but it will be fun to > try. > CD would be attractive though, must have taken me two hours to load on > floppies. :) Thanks again. > > From thedm at sunflower.com Thu Feb 19 06:45:07 2004 From: thedm at sunflower.com (Bill Girnius) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:32 2005 Subject: OS/2 Warp question - MPTS? References: <5.1.1.6.0.20040219020923.036fbfb8@pop.freeserve.net> <000d01c3f692$19d5b580$0200a8c0@look.ca> Message-ID: <005f01c3f6e6$3715c370$6501a8c0@barton> Found it, the "DOS LAN REQUESTOR DISKS 1-4" can be found here: http://www.os2site.com/sw/network/lansrv/index.html ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Mahoney" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2004 8:42 PM Subject: Re: OS/2 Warp question - MPTS? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rob O'Donnell" > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2004 9:14 PM > Subject: Re: OS/2 Warp question - MPTS? > > > > At 17:16 18/02/2004 -0500, Brian Mahoney wrote: > > > > >Just got a copy of OS/2 Warp version 3 with the Bonus Pack. (on diskette > ... ) > > > > > > If you, or anybody, wants it, I've got Warp 3 + Bonus pack on CD. It's > > actually a freebie 45 day trial edition, but no idea if that's > avoidable.... > > > > Cost of postage (from UK) and it's yours. > > > > Rob > > > Thanks for the offer Rob. I think I will muck around with the MS Lan > suggested earlier as well as FreeTCP. I doubt that the IBM browser will be > able to keep up with anything on the net these days but it will be fun to > try. > CD would be attractive though, must have taken me two hours to load on > floppies. :) Thanks again. > > From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Thu Feb 19 07:20:04 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:32 2005 Subject: TCA240 IC Message-ID: <1077195998.1527.44.camel@weka.localdomain> Apologies for asking about specific chips on here - I hate doing that! Does anyone have any data on a TCA240 IC, dating from the mid 80's, 16 pins. Looks to be some form of dual op-amp (there a quite a few of them in some video circuitry that I'm trying to sort out) A post to sci.electronics.repair proved no use, and the only web hits are obsolete specialist resellers of the ICs themselves. pin-outs would be great, a datasheet would be fantastic ;-) fingers crossed... cheers Jules From jondjohnston at hotmail.com Thu Feb 19 04:58:20 2004 From: jondjohnston at hotmail.com (Jon Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:32 2005 Subject: Eric Bal HP 9000/520 Message-ID: <000001c3f6d7$496fa180$0100a8c0@study> Sir, I have found an email dated Sep 29, 2002 from Eric Bal using a Google search. I would like to contact Mr Ball. Can you assist? We operate a museum of old HP computers in Melbourne. The only "desktop" machine that we do not have between the period 1969 and 1991 is the 9020 (or 9000/520). We would like to contact Mr Bal to discuss possible trade or purchase. Thank you for your assistance. Sincerely, Jon Johnston From salvatore.piscera at libero.it Thu Feb 19 00:23:29 2004 From: salvatore.piscera at libero.it (salvatore.piscera@libero.it) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:32 2005 Subject: pen EA-850B and EA-850C Message-ID: Hi! You send me 5 EA-850B and 5 EA-850C for sharp CE150 printer? I send money by postage. Send me e-mail please for total. Thanks. Best regards Salvatore Piscera From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Feb 19 08:34:08 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:32 2005 Subject: Eric Bal HP 9000/520 In-Reply-To: <000001c3f6d7$496fa180$0100a8c0@study> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040219093408.0083aa90@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Hi, I have a HP 9000/520 and I'm only 60 miles or so from Melbourne (Florida that is!) Eric has a webpage at . There's an E-mail link for him on the first page. Joe At 09:58 PM 2/19/04 +1100, you wrote: >Sir, > >I have found an email dated Sep 29, 2002 from Eric Bal using a Google >search. > >I would like to contact Mr Ball. Can you assist? > >We operate a museum of old HP computers in Melbourne. The only "desktop" >machine that we do not have between the period 1969 and 1991 is the 9020 >(or 9000/520). We would like to contact Mr Bal to discuss possible trade >or purchase. > >Thank you for your assistance. > >Sincerely, > > >Jon Johnston > From brianmahoney at look.ca Thu Feb 19 09:44:18 2004 From: brianmahoney at look.ca (Brian Mahoney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:32 2005 Subject: OS/2 Warp question - MPTS? References: <5.1.1.6.0.20040219020923.036fbfb8@pop.freeserve.net><000d01c3f692$19d5b580$0200a8c0@look.ca> <005f01c3f6e6$3715c370$6501a8c0@barton> Message-ID: <001701c3f6ff$4e8a84a0$0200a8c0@look.ca> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Girnius" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 7:45 AM Subject: Re: OS/2 Warp question - MPTS? > Found it, the "DOS LAN REQUESTOR DISKS 1-4" can be found here: > > http://www.os2site.com/sw/network/lansrv/index.html > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brian Mahoney" > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2004 8:42 PM > Subject: Re: OS/2 Warp question - MPTS? > > > > Thanks Bill! I had the first link and spent a long time deciphering it but the second one looks like a more useful offering. Now the problem may be adapter drivers. I have a 16 bit 'Sohoware' pcmcia card. Didn't come with drivers and if it did I am sure no OS/2 drivers. I may try the other pcmcia drivers listed to see if one works. Gotta say that os/2 is pretty good so far. Faster than Win95 I believe and except for some differing commands it kinda feels like home er.. I mean Windows. Thanks again. BM From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Feb 19 10:56:41 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:32 2005 Subject: NCD Explora 451 In-Reply-To: <200402191131.i1JBVXJ12093@mwave.heeltoe.com> References: <200402191131.i1JBVXJ12093@mwave.heeltoe.com> Message-ID: >I believe it's just stock 12v. I think there is a switcher on the PCB. >I have several here - I'll check. I'm not sure what you mean by switcher, however, I did just find an install manual this morning which let me open the case up, on the inside it gives the power requirements. 18VAC 13W 0.41A, guess I'll have to go through my collection of bricks at work, and probably the local junk store. >[I think there should be a law that once you drop support for the >product you have to put the software and docs in the public domain ;-)] No kidding! Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Thu Feb 19 11:20:06 2004 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:32 2005 Subject: FW: Can anyone help this gent? Message-ID: <200402190920060966.004F5B3F@192.168.42.129> I received E-mail this morning from a fellow who's trying to track down a Windows or DOS driver for an M4 Data 9-track tape drive. I wasn't able to provide much in the way of insight. If anyone here can help, please reply directly to him. Thanks much. Forwarded message follows. -=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- From: Yung.Robert@northropgrumman.ca Subject: Re: M4 Data 9914R I currently have a M4 Data 9914 Tape drive running off of a VAX system that is reaching its end of life. I need to be able to transfer the functionality of this system to a PC... hence the need for a PC version of the driver. The code that runs the tape drive is written in Fortran 77, which will also have to be converted to some other PC compatible language. In any case, my current headache is to either find a win/dos driver for the M4, or source a new 9mm (800-1600bpi) tape drive that comes with a win/dos driver. Is there anything at all that you could help me with? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech do/t c=o=m "If Salvador Dali had owned a computer, would it have been equipped with surreal ports?" From ulf.andersson at ipbolaget.com Thu Feb 19 11:35:29 2004 From: ulf.andersson at ipbolaget.com (Ulf Andersson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:32 2005 Subject: How to find me a PDP-11? In-Reply-To: <200402190235.i1J2Zn7H048893@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: Hi, how do I go about to find me a PDP-11 in Scandinavia and the close neighbourhood? England is close enough for a mesure of closeness. I live in the south of Sweden, close to Copenhagen. TIA for all help. /Ulf A. From jwest at classiccmp.org Thu Feb 19 12:28:11 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:32 2005 Subject: Can anyone help this gent? References: <200402190920060966.004F5B3F@192.168.42.129> Message-ID: <00ed01c3f716$216c6940$033310ac@kwcorp.com> No, but I would give my left arm for a SCSI board for the M4 Data drive :\ Jay West ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bruce Lane" To: Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 11:20 AM Subject: FW: Can anyone help this gent? > I received E-mail this morning from a fellow who's trying to track down a Windows or DOS driver for an M4 Data 9-track tape drive. > > I wasn't able to provide much in the way of insight. If anyone here can help, please reply directly to him. Thanks much. > > Forwarded message follows. > > -=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > > From: Yung.Robert@northropgrumman.ca > Subject: Re: M4 Data 9914R > > I currently have a M4 Data 9914 Tape drive running off of a VAX system > that is reaching its end of life. I need to be able to transfer the > functionality of this system to a PC... hence the need for a PC version > of the driver. The code that runs the tape drive is written in Fortran > 77, which will also have to be converted to some other PC compatible > language. In any case, my current headache is to either find a win/dos > driver for the M4, or source a new 9mm (800-1600bpi) tape drive that > comes with a win/dos driver. Is there anything at all that you could > help me with? > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, > Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com > kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech do/t c=o=m > "If Salvador Dali had owned a computer, would it have been equipped with surreal ports?" > > > --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From jwest at classiccmp.org Thu Feb 19 12:31:33 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:32 2005 Subject: Can anyone help this gent? References: <200402190920060966.004F5B3F@192.168.42.129> <00ed01c3f716$216c6940$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <010e01c3f716$99a3dce0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> I mean, the SCSI board that goes into the M4 data drive is what I need, not a scsi board for a host cpu. Jay ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jay West" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 12:28 PM Subject: Re: Can anyone help this gent? > No, but I would give my left arm for a SCSI board for the M4 Data drive :\ > > Jay West > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bruce Lane" > To: > Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 11:20 AM > Subject: FW: Can anyone help this gent? > > > > I received E-mail this morning from a fellow who's trying to track down a > Windows or DOS driver for an M4 Data 9-track tape drive. > > > > I wasn't able to provide much in the way of insight. If anyone here can > help, please reply directly to him. Thanks much. > > > > Forwarded message follows. > > > > -=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > > > > From: Yung.Robert@northropgrumman.ca > > Subject: Re: M4 Data 9914R > > > > I currently have a M4 Data 9914 Tape drive running off of a VAX system > > that is reaching its end of life. I need to be able to transfer the > > functionality of this system to a PC... hence the need for a PC version > > of the driver. The code that runs the tape drive is written in Fortran > > 77, which will also have to be converted to some other PC compatible > > language. In any case, my current headache is to either find a win/dos > > driver for the M4, or source a new 9mm (800-1600bpi) tape drive that > > comes with a win/dos driver. Is there anything at all that you could > > help me with? > > > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > > Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, > > Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com > > kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech do/t c=o=m > > "If Salvador Dali had owned a computer, would it have been equipped with > surreal ports?" > > > > > > > > --- > [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > > --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From KVanMersbergen at RandMcNally.com Thu Feb 19 12:51:17 2004 From: KVanMersbergen at RandMcNally.com (Van Mersbergen, Ken) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:33 2005 Subject: Can anyone help this gent? Message-ID: Jay- I think the parts for the M4 9914 are still available from http://www.pine1nc.com/M4.htm I ordered a new revision EPROM from them a while back. -Ken V. -----Original Message----- From: Jay West [mailto:jwest@classiccmp.org] Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 12:32 PM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: Can anyone help this gent? I mean, the SCSI board that goes into the M4 data drive is what I need, not a scsi board for a host cpu. Jay ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jay West" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 12:28 PM Subject: Re: Can anyone help this gent? > No, but I would give my left arm for a SCSI board for the M4 Data drive :\ > > Jay West > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bruce Lane" > To: > Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 11:20 AM > Subject: FW: Can anyone help this gent? > > > > I received E-mail this morning from a fellow who's trying to track down a > Windows or DOS driver for an M4 Data 9-track tape drive. > > > > I wasn't able to provide much in the way of insight. If anyone here can > help, please reply directly to him. Thanks much. > > > > Forwarded message follows. > > > > -=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > > > > From: Yung.Robert@northropgrumman.ca > > Subject: Re: M4 Data 9914R > > > > I currently have a M4 Data 9914 Tape drive running off of a VAX system > > that is reaching its end of life. I need to be able to transfer the > > functionality of this system to a PC... hence the need for a PC version > > of the driver. The code that runs the tape drive is written in Fortran > > 77, which will also have to be converted to some other PC compatible > > language. In any case, my current headache is to either find a win/dos > > driver for the M4, or source a new 9mm (800-1600bpi) tape drive that > > comes with a win/dos driver. Is there anything at all that you could > > help me with? > > > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > > Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, > > Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com > > kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech do/t c=o=m > > "If Salvador Dali had owned a computer, would it have been equipped with > surreal ports?" > > > > > > > > --- > [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > > --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] *************************************************************** This E-mail is confidential. It should not be read, copied, disclosed or used by any person other than the intended recipient. Unauthorized use, disclosure or copying by whatever medium is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this E-mail in error, please contact the sender immediately and delete the E-mail from your system. *************************************************************** From jwest at classiccmp.org Thu Feb 19 12:54:30 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:33 2005 Subject: Can anyone help this gent? References: Message-ID: <014c01c3f719$ce392340$033310ac@kwcorp.com> I believe mine is a 9903 :\ Jay West ----- Original Message ----- From: "Van Mersbergen, Ken" To: "'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'" Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 12:51 PM Subject: RE: Can anyone help this gent? > Jay- > > I think the parts for the M4 9914 are still available from > http://www.pine1nc.com/M4.htm > > I ordered a new revision EPROM from them a while back. > > -Ken V. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jay West [mailto:jwest@classiccmp.org] > Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 12:32 PM > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: Can anyone help this gent? > > > I mean, the SCSI board that goes into the M4 data drive is what I need, not > a scsi board for a host cpu. > > Jay > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jay West" > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 12:28 PM > Subject: Re: Can anyone help this gent? > > > > No, but I would give my left arm for a SCSI board for the M4 Data drive :\ > > > > Jay West > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Bruce Lane" > > To: > > Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 11:20 AM > > Subject: FW: Can anyone help this gent? > > > > > > > I received E-mail this morning from a fellow who's trying to track down > a > > Windows or DOS driver for an M4 Data 9-track tape drive. > > > > > > I wasn't able to provide much in the way of insight. If anyone here can > > help, please reply directly to him. Thanks much. > > > > > > Forwarded message follows. > > > > > > -=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > > > > > > From: Yung.Robert@northropgrumman.ca > > > Subject: Re: M4 Data 9914R > > > > > > I currently have a M4 Data 9914 Tape drive running off of a VAX system > > > that is reaching its end of life. I need to be able to transfer the > > > functionality of this system to a PC... hence the need for a PC version > > > of the driver. The code that runs the tape drive is written in Fortran > > > 77, which will also have to be converted to some other PC compatible > > > language. In any case, my current headache is to either find a win/dos > > > driver for the M4, or source a new 9mm (800-1600bpi) tape drive that > > > comes with a win/dos driver. Is there anything at all that you could > > > help me with? > > > > > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > > > Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, > > > Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com > > > kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech do/t c=o=m > > > "If Salvador Dali had owned a computer, would it have been equipped with > > surreal ports?" > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- > > [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > > > > > > --- > [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > > > *************************************************************** > This E-mail is confidential. It should not be read, copied, disclosed or > used by any person other than the intended recipient. Unauthorized use, > disclosure or copying by whatever medium is strictly prohibited and may be > unlawful. If you have received this E-mail in error, please contact the > sender immediately and delete the E-mail from your system. > *************************************************************** > --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Feb 19 13:06:55 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:33 2005 Subject: New OpenVMS Hobbyist Layered Product Licenses Message-ID: I was working on my annual OpenVMS licensing a little bit ago, and noticed that some more Layered Products licenses have been added; UCX-IP-CLIENT, UCX-IP-NFS, UCX-IP-RT. Not sure what exactly they add to TCPIP. Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From jwest at classiccmp.org Thu Feb 19 13:09:37 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:33 2005 Subject: Can anyone help this gent? References: Message-ID: <016301c3f71b$eae41660$033310ac@kwcorp.com> I just found out that the SCSI board in the M4 data 9903, 9905, and 9914 are all compatible. So... if anyone knows where there's a cheap SCSI board for any of those models, I'd like to talk :) Jay West ----- Original Message ----- From: "Van Mersbergen, Ken" To: "'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'" Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 12:51 PM Subject: RE: Can anyone help this gent? > Jay- > > I think the parts for the M4 9914 are still available from > http://www.pine1nc.com/M4.htm > > I ordered a new revision EPROM from them a while back. > > -Ken V. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jay West [mailto:jwest@classiccmp.org] > Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 12:32 PM > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: Can anyone help this gent? > > > I mean, the SCSI board that goes into the M4 data drive is what I need, not > a scsi board for a host cpu. > > Jay > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jay West" > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 12:28 PM > Subject: Re: Can anyone help this gent? > > > > No, but I would give my left arm for a SCSI board for the M4 Data drive :\ > > > > Jay West > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Bruce Lane" > > To: > > Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 11:20 AM > > Subject: FW: Can anyone help this gent? > > > > > > > I received E-mail this morning from a fellow who's trying to track down > a > > Windows or DOS driver for an M4 Data 9-track tape drive. > > > > > > I wasn't able to provide much in the way of insight. If anyone here can > > help, please reply directly to him. Thanks much. > > > > > > Forwarded message follows. > > > > > > -=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > > > > > > From: Yung.Robert@northropgrumman.ca > > > Subject: Re: M4 Data 9914R > > > > > > I currently have a M4 Data 9914 Tape drive running off of a VAX system > > > that is reaching its end of life. I need to be able to transfer the > > > functionality of this system to a PC... hence the need for a PC version > > > of the driver. The code that runs the tape drive is written in Fortran > > > 77, which will also have to be converted to some other PC compatible > > > language. In any case, my current headache is to either find a win/dos > > > driver for the M4, or source a new 9mm (800-1600bpi) tape drive that > > > comes with a win/dos driver. Is there anything at all that you could > > > help me with? > > > > > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > > > Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, > > > Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com > > > kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech do/t c=o=m > > > "If Salvador Dali had owned a computer, would it have been equipped with > > surreal ports?" > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- > > [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > > > > > > --- > [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > > > *************************************************************** > This E-mail is confidential. It should not be read, copied, disclosed or > used by any person other than the intended recipient. Unauthorized use, > disclosure or copying by whatever medium is strictly prohibited and may be > unlawful. If you have received this E-mail in error, please contact the > sender immediately and delete the E-mail from your system. > *************************************************************** > --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Thu Feb 19 13:25:06 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:33 2005 Subject: New OpenVMS Hobbyist Layered Product Licenses In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Zane H. Healy > Sent: 19 February 2004 19:07 > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: New OpenVMS Hobbyist Layered Product Licenses > > I was working on my annual OpenVMS licensing a little bit > ago, and noticed that some more Layered Products licenses > have been added; UCX-IP-CLIENT, UCX-IP-NFS, UCX-IP-RT. Not > sure what exactly they add to TCPIP. IP-CLIENT was a cheaper version of the full UCX license that allowed client-only FTP/TELNET/etc access, NFS allows you to connect to u**x NFS servers for remote disk access and I can't remember what RT did :) Cheers w From rdd at rddavis.org Thu Feb 19 13:53:31 2004 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:33 2005 Subject: CMU TCP/IP Message-ID: <20040219194632.GE13924@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Does anyone know if CMU TCP/IP is still available anywhere? I was going to try installing that and gcc on my VAX running VAX/VMS 5.x (I don't recall the exact version number, since I haven't used it for a while), but couldn't find anyplace to download it from. Since I seem to recall the vax having kermit installed, I'm figuring that, since I've installed latd on my FreeBSD box, I can just invoke kermit on both machines and copy files over the LAT connection. Will that work? -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net Thu Feb 19 13:57:24 2004 From: ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:33 2005 Subject: OT? What 8bit Microprocessors still available new? Message-ID: 'lo everyone... Who would be interested in a *new* classic computer.. it would have room for almost 640K of memory, the remainder being taken by a simple ROM monitor (like the apple I monitor, or the Polymorphic monitor) What Microprocessors are still being sold new? 6502? Z80? It would consist of a small board with RAM, ROM, CPU, and a serial port. Best use would be to connect it to a PC running a terminal emulator for IO and Mass storage. Is anyone interested? Perhaps I should just go find a simulator? :^p ron. From cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net Thu Feb 19 14:04:11 2004 From: cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:33 2005 Subject: OT? What 8bit Microprocessors still available new? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1077221051.1550.47.camel@morden.cc.vt.edu> On Thu, 2004-02-19 at 14:57, Ron Hudson wrote: > 'lo everyone... > > Who would be interested in a *new* classic computer.. > > it would have room for almost 640K of memory, the remainder being taken > by > a simple ROM monitor (like the apple I monitor, or the Polymorphic > monitor) > > What Microprocessors are still being sold new? 6502? Z80? > > It would consist of a small board with RAM, ROM, CPU, and a serial port. > > Best use would be to connect it to a PC running a terminal emulator for > IO and Mass storage. > > Is anyone interested? > > Perhaps I should just go find a simulator? :^p > > ron. Can it have toggle switches and blinky lights? If so, then count me in. -- Christopher L McNabb Tel: 540 231 7554 Operating Systems Analyst Email: cmcnabb@vt.edu Virginia Tech ICBM: 37.205622N 80.414595W GMRS: WPSR255 ARS: N2UX Grid Sq: EM97SD From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Feb 19 14:09:28 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:33 2005 Subject: CMU TCP/IP In-Reply-To: <20040219194632.GE13924@rhiannon.rddavis.org> References: <20040219194632.GE13924@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: >Does anyone know if CMU TCP/IP is still available anywhere? I was >going to try installing that and gcc on my VAX running VAX/VMS 5.x (I >don't recall the exact version number, since I haven't used it for a Been a while since I've seen a site for it, since the hobbyist program came out, everyone seems to be using TCPIP, or one of the Process software TCP stacks (I believe both support V5.5-2. I think I've got a copy of CMU TCP/IP on TK50 *somewhere*, and I should have copies of the install kits on a computer somewhere. Also, would it be on the Hobbyist V1 CD or in the DECUS archives? Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From pat at computer-refuge.org Thu Feb 19 14:15:39 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:33 2005 Subject: Complete! Re: Help needed identifying boards In-Reply-To: <200402171340.50361.pat@computer-refuge.org> References: <200402160234.05689.pat@computer-refuge.org> <200402171340.50361.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: <200402191515.39748.pat@computer-refuge.org> It appears that the DC on the DC1127 (and other boards I've got) stands for "Department of Chemistry." Aparently the "Instrument room" at Purdue's Chem department used to make a lot of their own boards for custom instrumentation before off-the-shelf instrumentation was readily available. I'm not sure what I want to do with them yet; I'm considering making schematics of them and possibly making "something" out of them. Of course, that probably won't be for a while... The other boards are indeed HP 21xx boards (and the 9885 and 9895 boards). I've got a list of the boards and probably will be offering them for sale/trade soon... I've got a few people that I want to give first dibs to, but they might end up here. Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From dave at naffnet.org.uk Thu Feb 19 14:42:51 2004 From: dave at naffnet.org.uk (Dave Woodman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:33 2005 Subject: CMU TCP/IP In-Reply-To: <20040219194632.GE13924@rhiannon.rddavis.org> References: <20040219194632.GE13924@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <40351FCB.4090405@naffnet.org.uk> R. D. Davis wrote: >Does anyone know if CMU TCP/IP is still available anywhere? I was >going to try installing that and gcc on my VAX running VAX/VMS 5.x (I >don't recall the exact version number, since I haven't used it for a >while), but couldn't find anyplace to download it from. Since I seem >to recall the vax having kermit installed, I'm figuring that, since >I've installed latd on my FreeBSD box, I can just invoke kermit on >both machines and copy files over the LAT connection. Will that work? > > Only a Google away was http://ftp.funet.fi/pub/vms/tools/cmuip/ Cheers, Dave. From coredump at gifford.co.uk Thu Feb 19 14:58:12 2004 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:33 2005 Subject: OT? What 8bit Microprocessors still available new? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <40352364.7010900@gifford.co.uk> Ron Hudson wrote: > Who would be interested in a *new* classic computer.. I would! I have some minor plans to build one. > it would have room for almost 640K of memory, ^^^^ 64K, surely? > What Microprocessors are still being sold new? 6502? Z80? Not many. You may find that only the high-volume distributors have any of the 6502, Z80 or 6809 generation -- and you'd have to buy in *huge* numbers. But having said that, many CPUs are simply not made any more. So, you'd have to go to a specialist in obsolete semiconductors. > It would consist of a small board with RAM, ROM, CPU, and a serial port. I was thinking of 6809, 27256, 62256 and 6551. Maybe 6522, maybe AY-3-8910. > Is anyone interested? Oh, yes! -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Feb 19 14:56:30 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:33 2005 Subject: FA: old computer books & HP, Tektronix, Fluke manuals Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040219155630.00874b80@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I have just finished listing a bunch of HP, Tektronix and Fluke manuals on E-bay including several Logic Analyzer manuals. I've also listed sevel books of particular interest to this list including a Synertek data book showing the Super Jolt, SYM-1 and System 65 computers; an IBM Selectric I/O manual; a front panel for some kind of military computer; an AIX installation manual; and a manual for a Motorola EXORbus 6800 SBC. Joe From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Feb 19 15:22:56 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:33 2005 Subject: OT? What 8bit Microprocessors still available new? In-Reply-To: <40352364.7010900@gifford.co.uk> References: <40352364.7010900@gifford.co.uk> Message-ID: <20040219132135.S83711@newshell.lmi.net> > > Who would be interested in a *new* classic computer.. > I would! I have some minor plans to build one. > > it would have room for almost 640K of memory, > 64K, surely? Surely, NOBODY needs more than 640K! From patrick at evocative.com Thu Feb 19 15:32:48 2004 From: patrick at evocative.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:33 2005 Subject: OT? What 8bit Microprocessors still available new? In-Reply-To: <40352364.7010900@gifford.co.uk> Message-ID: > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: OT? What 8bit Microprocessors still available new? > > > Ron Hudson wrote: > > > Who would be interested in a *new* classic computer..> > > > It would consist of a small board with RAM, ROM, CPU, and a serial port. [snip] > John Honnibal write: > I was thinking of 6809, 27256, 62256 and 6551. Maybe 6522, maybe > AY-3-8910. Hmmm... check out Daryl Rictor's SBC-2 project, a 65C02-based machine with 32K RAM and 32K EEPROM, two VIAs, and 6551 serial, etc. I own/built three. :-) http://65c02.tripod.com/sbc25/info.html --Patrick From vcf at siconic.com Thu Feb 19 15:54:49 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:33 2005 Subject: OT? What 8bit Microprocessors still available new? In-Reply-To: <40352364.7010900@gifford.co.uk> Message-ID: On Thu, 19 Feb 2004, John Honniball wrote: > Not many. You may find that only the high-volume distributors have > any of the 6502, Z80 or 6809 generation -- and you'd have to buy > in *huge* numbers. But having said that, many CPUs are simply not > made any more. So, you'd have to go to a specialist in obsolete > semiconductors. Or just sacrifice an old Apple //e (common as dirt) or C64 (common as lint) and use the chips inside. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From spectre at floodgap.com Thu Feb 19 16:15:15 2004 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:33 2005 Subject: OT? What 8bit Microprocessors still available new? In-Reply-To: from Vintage Computer Festival at "Feb 19, 4 01:54:49 pm" Message-ID: <200402192215.OAA12922@floodgap.com> > > Not many. You may find that only the high-volume distributors have > > any of the 6502, Z80 or 6809 generation -- and you'd have to buy > > in *huge* numbers. But having said that, many CPUs are simply not > > made any more. So, you'd have to go to a specialist in obsolete > > semiconductors. > > Or just sacrifice an old Apple //e (common as dirt) or C64 (common as > lint) and use the chips inside. A C64 might not be as optimal, though, because it has a 6510, not a 6502 (unless you really do want the on-chip I/O port). For common-as-lint Commodores, if you really must, gutting a *sniffle* VIC-20 may be a better choice. (Sellam, I haven't forgotten about that disk, honest.) -- ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@floodgap.com -- There are few problems that the liberal usage of high explosives can't cure. From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Thu Feb 19 16:27:39 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:33 2005 Subject: OT? What 8bit Microprocessors still available new? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1077228853.1527.121.camel@weka.localdomain> On Thu, 2004-02-19 at 21:54, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Thu, 19 Feb 2004, John Honniball wrote: > > > Not many. You may find that only the high-volume distributors have > > any of the 6502, Z80 or 6809 generation -- and you'd have to buy > > in *huge* numbers. But having said that, many CPUs are simply not > > made any more. So, you'd have to go to a specialist in obsolete > > semiconductors. > > Or just sacrifice an old Apple //e (common as dirt) or C64 (common as > lint) and use the chips inside. Well old process control equipment, especially telecoms hardware, tends to be a good source of Z80 family chips, and typically there's no merit in preserving the boards as they are. Better than wrecking a self-contained complete computer, even if it is a common one! cheers Jules From jcwren at jcwren.com Thu Feb 19 16:22:47 2004 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:33 2005 Subject: OT? What 8bit Microprocessors still available new? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <40353737.9080503@jcwren.com> My question is what exactly is the goal? Do you want to run any existing operating systems? How much work do you want to put into a paged memory system to support large amounts of memory? At some point, why not use an open source core, and use a Xilinx? Through hole or surface mount? Monolithic system or cards for each function? Expansion compatible with any existing technology? I ask these because I've asked myself the same questions. Somewhere in my queue is laying out a board for a 1802 system. I have amassed more than enough necessary components, and some interest has been expressed by others in it. To me, there's not much point in taking the basic Elf design and making a PC board out of it. I want to be able to load code over a serial port to it, and use remote debugging. Front panel switches are fun for a while, but they're a helluva way to debug by todays standards (I (heart) JTAG). I've also amassed a considerable amount of 6809 parts for a similiar project. How compatible to I want to be with other peoples existing code or hardware? Am I building this just for myself, or should it be useful to others? In my mind, if I'm going to have mass storage on it, I want a compact flash and IDE interface (IDE optional, CF required). How much complexity do I want in my memory manager? Finally, except for a very few parts, just about all families have readily available parts, IF you count eBay as a source. Much of my 6809 stock came from there. Mouser sells 10Mhz Z80s at reasonable prices, and there's no shortage of peripherials. In fact, that's what I used in my SOAPOC prototype (< http://tinymicros.com/embedded/Z80 >). Now that I'm happy with the CF interface, I need to start the actual design. But I haven't settled on how my MMU and all will work, since I'd like to support running MP/M and CP/M 3.0 on it. This isn't meant to be discouraging. I'm all for the idea, as long as it's not based on a PIC. --jc Ron Hudson wrote: > > > 'lo everyone... > > Who would be interested in a *new* classic computer.. > > it would have room for almost 640K of memory, the remainder being > taken by > a simple ROM monitor (like the apple I monitor, or the Polymorphic > monitor) > > What Microprocessors are still being sold new? 6502? Z80? > > It would consist of a small board with RAM, ROM, CPU, and a serial port. > > Best use would be to connect it to a PC running a terminal emulator for > IO and Mass storage. > > Is anyone interested? > > Perhaps I should just go find a simulator? :^p > > ron. > From uban at ubanproductions.com Thu Feb 19 16:30:54 2004 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:33 2005 Subject: OT? What 8bit Microprocessors still available new? In-Reply-To: <1077228853.1527.121.camel@weka.localdomain> References: Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20040219162826.03a9c870@mail.ubanproductions.com> At 10:14 PM 2/19/2004 +0000, you wrote: >On Thu, 2004-02-19 at 21:54, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > On Thu, 19 Feb 2004, John Honniball wrote: > > > > > Not many. You may find that only the high-volume distributors have > > > any of the 6502, Z80 or 6809 generation -- and you'd have to buy > > > in *huge* numbers. But having said that, many CPUs are simply not > > > made any more. So, you'd have to go to a specialist in obsolete > > > semiconductors. > > > > Or just sacrifice an old Apple //e (common as dirt) or C64 (common as > > lint) and use the chips inside. > >Well old process control equipment, especially telecoms hardware, tends >to be a good source of Z80 family chips, and typically there's no merit >in preserving the boards as they are. > >Better than wrecking a self-contained complete computer, even if it is a >common one! > >cheers > >Jules Z80s (and others) along with their support ICs are readily available from places like: http://www.jameco.com --tom From vcf at siconic.com Thu Feb 19 16:30:07 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:33 2005 Subject: OT? What 8bit Microprocessors still available new? In-Reply-To: <200402192215.OAA12922@floodgap.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 19 Feb 2004, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > > > Not many. You may find that only the high-volume distributors have > > > any of the 6502, Z80 or 6809 generation -- and you'd have to buy > > > in *huge* numbers. But having said that, many CPUs are simply not > > > made any more. So, you'd have to go to a specialist in obsolete > > > semiconductors. > > > > Or just sacrifice an old Apple //e (common as dirt) or C64 (common as > > lint) and use the chips inside. > > A C64 might not be as optimal, though, because it has a 6510, not a 6502 > (unless you really do want the on-chip I/O port). For common-as-lint An on-chip I/O port would be fun. > Commodores, if you really must, gutting a *sniffle* VIC-20 may be a better > choice. I don't like to advocate the eviscerating of old computers, but as long as the parts are being used to build new computers then it's acceptable. > (Sellam, I haven't forgotten about that disk, honest.) I know :) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Thu Feb 19 16:30:56 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:33 2005 Subject: OT? What 8bit Microprocessors still available new? In-Reply-To: <1077228853.1527.121.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: On 19 Feb 2004, Jules Richardson wrote: > On Thu, 2004-02-19 at 21:54, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > On Thu, 19 Feb 2004, John Honniball wrote: > > > > > Not many. You may find that only the high-volume distributors have > > > any of the 6502, Z80 or 6809 generation -- and you'd have to buy > > > in *huge* numbers. But having said that, many CPUs are simply not > > > made any more. So, you'd have to go to a specialist in obsolete > > > semiconductors. > > > > Or just sacrifice an old Apple //e (common as dirt) or C64 (common as > > lint) and use the chips inside. > > Well old process control equipment, especially telecoms hardware, tends > to be a good source of Z80 family chips, and typically there's no merit > in preserving the boards as they are. Good point. Some old alarm systems have Z80s in them. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From dwight.elvey at amd.com Thu Feb 19 16:40:20 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:33 2005 Subject: OT? What 8bit Microprocessors still available new? Message-ID: <200402192240.OAA18924@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Tom Uban" >At 10:14 PM 2/19/2004 +0000, you wrote: > >>On Thu, 2004-02-19 at 21:54, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: >> > On Thu, 19 Feb 2004, John Honniball wrote: >> > >> > > Not many. You may find that only the high-volume distributors have >> > > any of the 6502, Z80 or 6809 generation -- and you'd have to buy >> > > in *huge* numbers. But having said that, many CPUs are simply not >> > > made any more. So, you'd have to go to a specialist in obsolete >> > > semiconductors. >> > >> > Or just sacrifice an old Apple //e (common as dirt) or C64 (common as >> > lint) and use the chips inside. >> >>Well old process control equipment, especially telecoms hardware, tends >>to be a good source of Z80 family chips, and typically there's no merit >>in preserving the boards as they are. >> >>Better than wrecking a self-contained complete computer, even if it is a >>common one! >> >>cheers >> >>Jules > >Z80s (and others) along with their support ICs are readily available from >places like: http://www.jameco.com > >--tom > > Hi Still, all this stuff is from NOS ( New-Old-Stock ) as well as bits and pieces from various manufacture stock rooms. The most common 8 bit still in regular manufacture today would most likely be the 8051 stuff from Philips. It is a ugly processor to use as a general purpose processor but quite nice for things like microwave oven controls. Large memory access ( 64K ) is a pain. Dwight From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Feb 19 15:50:57 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:33 2005 Subject: Perq 2T1 display fault In-Reply-To: <1D5B34E2-5B35-11D8-AAFD-003065B0DA30@comcast.net> from "CRC" at Feb 9, 4 12:21:09 pm Message-ID: > > On Sat, 2004-02-07 at 23:35, Jules Richardson wrote: > > > Oh, and if anyone's dishing out Perq wisdom there's also a Perq 1 with > > a > > display fault too - on that one the image is centered on the screen, > > but > > squashed into about 80% of the normal width, and maybe 10% of normal > > height. It's also very non-rectangular in nature. > > Chatted with my good buddy who still makes a living repairing > terminals. His guess is that the horizontal yoke isolation cap is > leaking/bad. This will definitely make the horizontal squoosh. Many > terminals derive the drive voltage for the vertical from the horizontal > flyback - thereby causing the problem you are seeing. Ve _very_ careful. The VMI monitor used on the PERQ 1 is unconventional in a lot of respects (I have an idea that the EHT doesn't come from the horizontal output stage, but from a second transistor/transformer circuit also driven from the horizontal drive signal). I will have to dig out the schematics sometime (yes I have the full manuals...) I would start, though, by checking the 55V line from the PERQ's PSU to the monitor. If that's low or noisy, you'll have all sorts of problems... > > His recommendations: > 1. look for an oversized cap (electrolytic - yup one of those > beasties...) near the horizontal drive transistor (generally > heatsinked) that has a rating between 35 and 60 volts and a value Eh? The coupling capacitor is normally a lot higher voltage than that (600V and above in my experiece!). It's also likely to be a non-polarised electrolytic (this is similar to having 2 normal electrolytics 'back to back'), and no, those can't easily be re-formed. > between 2.2 and 20 microfarads. This is the isolation cap. If it is in > the 2.2 to 4.7 volt range replace it with a film cap - you will never > have a problem again. You can't reform this one since they put AC > (albeit mostly DC) through the cap and once it goes it's gone. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Feb 19 15:54:43 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:33 2005 Subject: Perq 2T1 display fault In-Reply-To: <1076358611.1651.45.camel@dhcp-250132> from "Tom Jennings" at Feb 9, 4 12:30:11 pm Message-ID: > > On Mon, 2004-02-09 at 02:04, Gordon JC Pearce wrote: > > > > Monitor being fed too high a voltage? Too *low* a voltage to the > > scanning? Might just be out of adjustment - possibly someone's fiddled > > with all the trimmers. We used to call TVs in that condition "NICAM" > > sets, Nasty Intruder Caused Absolute Mayhem. > We used to call it 'digital interference' :-) I once had a VCR in for repair where the idiot owner hadn't realised you had to tune the TV set to the RF ouput of the CCR, and had, instead, twiddled every electronic and mechanical adjustment in an attempt to get a picture. Sorting that mess out took a long time! Incidentally, for those not in Europe, NICAM (Near Instantaneous Companded Audio Multiplex) is a digitial stereo sound system used on TV's over here. I built a NICAM decoder way back in the early 1990s.... -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Feb 19 16:23:35 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:33 2005 Subject: 50Hz vs 60Hz fixed drive speed ? In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20040217145249.0216eeb0@mail.ubanproductions.com> from "Tom Uban" at Feb 17, 4 02:57:12 pm Message-ID: > > A friend and I were discussing 8" floppy drives recently, in particular > that they often have two pulley sizes so that the rotational speed is > 360rpm regardless of 50Hz or 60Hz operation, assuming that they are > setup properly. > > The question then turned to whether or not a fixed hard drive would Demouintable hard disks (like the DEC RK05) were certainly like 8" floppy drives in this respect -- you had to change the spindle motor pulley (and sometimes the belt) to change from 50Hz to 60Hz operation. > typically be designed in a similar fashion, such that the spindle > would rotate at the same number of RPM when configured for 50Hz or > 60Hz operation, or if they did not worry about the speed differences > as the media was not removable? I think this was the case with early Winchesters too. IIRC you have to change the pulley on a Shugart SA4000 if you change the mains frequency, for example After all, you want the same data rate and track length (in bits, and therefore in time, given the same data rate) no matter which side of the Pond you use the drive. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Feb 19 15:57:38 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:33 2005 Subject: Philips MAB8031AH-12P CPU In-Reply-To: <1076368786.14901.440.camel@weka.localdomain> from "Jules Richardson" at Feb 9, 4 11:19:46 pm Message-ID: > > Some of you guys probably have piles of databooks lying around :-) Well, I happenm to have 2 shelves of Philips IC databooks... > > Can anyone tell me anything about a Philips MAB8031AH-12P CPU? Is it a > clone of anything more common? (given the 12MHz clock speed, 40 pin DIP > and a mid-80's build date, I doubt it) But I don't need to look at them to tell you that's an 8031 microcontroller. That's the ROMless 8051 (so there's no internal program ROM to worry about, it'll have a '373 or '573 address latch and an EPROM alongside it). Pinout is the same as the 8051, excepet that you always tie EA high to disable the non-existant internal ROM (actually, in a lot of cases the intenral ROM exists, but it corrupted/non-fuctioning. It was once said that most 8032's actually had corrupted versions of 8052 BAISC in the ROM, and were 8052-BASIC chips that had failed the ROM test, but which worked in all other respsects) -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Feb 19 16:25:14 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:33 2005 Subject: 50Hz vs 60Hz fixed drive speed ? In-Reply-To: <3699.65.123.179.135.1077052412.squirrel@webmail.ccp.com> from "ghldbrd@ccp.com" at Feb 17, 4 03:13:32 pm Message-ID: > > Hard drives are almost always driven by a DC motor (off the +12v line). Perhaps you could tell that to my RK05s, RK07s, RL01s, RL02s, SA4000s, etc, etc, etc. This is classiccmp, after all :-) -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Feb 19 16:09:17 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:33 2005 Subject: Smoke on the Horizon... oh s**t! In-Reply-To: <9726BA9DE867D51183B900B0D0AB85F8013E48CD@inetmail.atlantissi.com> from "Robert Maxwell" at Feb 16, 4 11:31:48 am Message-ID: > Now, the questions: what the hell happened? Failures of tantalums (I've > witnessed) are usually due to reversed polarity: not only are these > particular parts long-term residents of the boards, but the unregulated +12V > supply is the highest DC voltage in the machine - how did the - terminal (DC FWIW, I've just had tantalum capacitors explode for no good reason. In once classic (!) case, I took an IBM CGA card from the box of PC bits and plugged it into an expansion slot. One of the tants (a decoupling cap on the 5V rail) exploded, but the board carried on working, the right image came up on the monitor, and the machine passed the POST. I'd just replace the caps and see what happens. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Feb 19 16:42:37 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:33 2005 Subject: New find: Nascom.. umm 2.5.. a.. ish In-Reply-To: <1077124236.32644.98.camel@weka.localdomain> from "Jules Richardson" at Feb 18, 4 05:10:37 pm Message-ID: > > Any recommendations out there for good Nascom resources? > > I know nothing about these creatures; I went round to pick up a Torch > floppy drive unit from someone a few days ago and they happened to ask > if I wanted a Nascom before they threw it out... > > It's housed in the biggest, ugliest wooden case ever so that's going to > have to go! The system board is a Nascom 2, whilst the PSU says Nascom > 3a - maybe there was a crossover point when that practice was common? If you get no other help, I should have the schematics, etc, for all that stuff.... > Inside there's just a system board and memory board, and no bus slots > for anything more - is the bus anything standard and were other 3rd > party boards typically added to these machines? The bus was Nascom special, and was also used on the Gemini (with a few modifications). Yes, there were 3rd party boards (I have one somewhere with the Digitalker chipset on it IIRC). It was a fairly popular hobbyist computer at one time... However, the CPU board + memory board is a fairly common configuration. IIRC, there is RAM space on the CPU board (using 4118 1K byte SRAMs). At the time, there was a ahortage of said chips, so Nascom supplied the CPU board without them, but offered the DRAM board at a very good price. Needless to say that's what most purchasers bought. > Still, a curious one, and my first wooden cased computer. I'll have to The case is not original (altough, strangely, my Nascom is in a wooden box..) Originally you just got a pile of PCBs... -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Feb 19 16:44:21 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:33 2005 Subject: New find: Nascom.. umm 2.5.. a.. ish In-Reply-To: from "Vintage Computer Festival" at Feb 18, 4 09:50:37 am Message-ID: > > It's housed in the biggest, ugliest wooden case ever so that's going to > > have to go! The system board is a Nascom 2, whilst the PSU says Nascom > > Whatm and ruin its character? I would leave it intact, if only to serve > as an example of how hobbyists sometimes made the ugliest enclosures for > their computers. > > > 3a - maybe there was a crossover point when that practice was common? I htink you've both misinterpretted the markings. The CPU board is a Nascom 2 board (to distinguish it from the Nascom 1). The PSU is a 3A (3 amps) unit... It was quite a normal PSU to use with the Nascom 2 -tony From ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net Thu Feb 19 17:01:05 2004 From: ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:33 2005 Subject: OT? What 8bit Microprocessors still available new? In-Reply-To: <1077221051.1550.47.camel@morden.cc.vt.edu> Message-ID: <7F639E10-632F-11D8-8EA6-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> On Thursday, February 19, 2004, at 12:04 PM, Christopher McNabb wrote: > On Thu, 2004-02-19 at 14:57, Ron Hudson wrote: >> it would have room for almost 640K of memory, the remainder being >> taken >> by >> a simple ROM monitor (like the apple I monitor, or the Polymorphic >> monitor) >> Perhaps I should just go find a simulator? :^p >> >> ron. > > Can it have toggle switches and blinky lights? If so, then count me > in. > > -- > Christopher L McNabb Tel: 540 231 7554 > Operating Systems Analyst Email: cmcnabb@vt.edu > Virginia Tech ICBM: 37.205622N 80.414595W > GMRS: WPSR255 ARS: N2UX Grid Sq: EM97SD > > Sure, we could put 2 words of LED's and 3 words of switches and the rom monitor could look at those as well :^) Addr_____________________________ o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o data___________ VVVVVVVV VVV^^VVV ^VVVVVVV dddddddd aaaaaaaa 12345678 sw1 run/stop sw2 examine sw3 deposit sw4-8 Sense From ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net Thu Feb 19 17:04:51 2004 From: ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:33 2005 Subject: OT? What 8bit Microprocessors still available new? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <05983460-6330-11D8-8EA6-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> On Thursday, February 19, 2004, at 01:54 PM, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Thu, 19 Feb 2004, John Honniball wrote: > >> Not many. You may find that only the high-volume distributors have >> any of the 6502, Z80 or 6809 generation -- and you'd have to buy >> in *huge* numbers. But having said that, many CPUs are simply not >> made any more. So, you'd have to go to a specialist in obsolete >> semiconductors. > > Or just sacrifice an old Apple //e (common as dirt) or C64 (common as > lint) and use the chips inside. Please! only sacrifice non working machines, Dinosaurs may have been as common as dirt once, but you don't see many of them now. I understand that at least for C64 the main failure point is the SID chip... p.s. anyone have a common as blue lint C64SX I could have (the portable C64)? > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer > Festival > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage > Computers ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at > http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > From patrick at evocative.com Thu Feb 19 17:05:07 2004 From: patrick at evocative.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:33 2005 Subject: OT? What 8bit Microprocessors still available new? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > Well old process control equipment, especially telecoms hardware, tends > > to be a good source of Z80 family chips, and typically there's no merit > > in preserving the boards as they are. > > Good point. Some old alarm systems have Z80s in them. And 1802s and 6800s as well... --Patrick From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Thu Feb 19 17:18:42 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:33 2005 Subject: OT-ish... what to do with > 400 relays... Message-ID: <1077231917.1527.133.camel@weka.localdomain> Polling list wisdom here... Hmm, any suggestions for anything creative to do with around 450 or so 5V relays? I have a bucket full here (literally). I can't help thinking I should be able to wire up some sort of interesting computer-esque demonstration with them! (Something nice and power-hungry, noisy, and with plenty of obligatory status lights :-) Sorry, brain randomly churning over here :-) cheers Jules From spectre at floodgap.com Thu Feb 19 17:30:23 2004 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:33 2005 Subject: OT? What 8bit Microprocessors still available new? In-Reply-To: <05983460-6330-11D8-8EA6-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> from Ron Hudson at "Feb 19, 4 03:04:51 pm" Message-ID: <200402192330.PAA15766@floodgap.com> > > Or just sacrifice an old Apple //e (common as dirt) or C64 (common as > > lint) and use the chips inside. > > Please! only sacrifice non working machines, Dinosaurs may have been as > common as dirt once, but you don't see many of them now. I understand > that at least for C64 the main failure point is the SID chip... Actually, no ... it's the PLA, most of the time. The SID won't cause a non-working machine if it's blown (I've blown SIDs many times on SX-64s due to a well-known board fault on the video port, and the machine still works, just without sound, of course). > p.s. anyone have a common as blue lint C64SX I could have (the portable > C64)? If I wear a blue shirt, I get a lot of blue lint ;) They're not too hard to find, in any case. Don't buy them from eBay, find a private collector. For the two I own, I paid a grand total of $30 (really). -- ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@floodgap.com -- Tell the truth, and run. -- Yugoslav proverb ------------------------------- From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Thu Feb 19 17:30:30 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:33 2005 Subject: Perq 2T1 display fault In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1077232626.1528.143.camel@weka.localdomain> On Thu, 2004-02-19 at 21:50, Tony Duell wrote: > > I will have to dig out the > schematics sometime (yes I have the full manuals...) I thought if anyone had details on them it'd be you :-) (Aside - does PERQ stand for something, or was it originally all capitals just as a trendy marketing thing?) > I would start, though, by checking the 55V line from the PERQ's PSU to > the monitor. If that's low or noisy, you'll have all sorts of problems... Rats, I did last weekend and it didn't seem *too* low but I haven't got the exact figure with me at the mo. I believe it was sitting at 50V or so, just checked on a meter though and not a scope. The LS logic chip in it was getting a healthy 5V too. I'll give it a quick (and careful) poke with a 'scope at the weekend. Then I think I'll pull the fuses out of it and lock the HD so nobody fiddles with it and breaks it before the display can be sorted :) (does appropriate media exist out in the public domain to rebuild the hard disk contents if needs be? Of course finding a replacement drive if that breaks is another matter entirely) cheers Jules From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Thu Feb 19 17:35:12 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:33 2005 Subject: OT? What 8bit Microprocessors still available new? In-Reply-To: <05983460-6330-11D8-8EA6-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> References: <05983460-6330-11D8-8EA6-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <1077232896.1527.146.camel@weka.localdomain> On Thu, 2004-02-19 at 23:04, Ron Hudson wrote: > p.s. anyone have a common as blue lint C64SX I could have (the portable > C64)? A couple were donated to the museum a few weeks back - I don't think anyone will get time to check them over and then see if they're working for a few weeks though... First time I'd ever seen one before. Cute little things... cheers Jules From jpl15 at panix.com Thu Feb 19 17:34:22 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:33 2005 Subject: OT? What 8bit Microprocessors still available new? In-Reply-To: <200402192330.PAA15766@floodgap.com> References: <200402192330.PAA15766@floodgap.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 19 Feb 2004, Cameron Kaiser wrote: [snippage] > > > p.s. anyone have a common as blue lint C64SX I could have (the portable > > C64)? > > If I wear a blue shirt, I get a lot of blue lint ;) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ You'd be Hans Franke at that point... Cheerz Johann From ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net Thu Feb 19 17:28:51 2004 From: ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:34 2005 Subject: OT? What 8bit Microprocessors still available new? In-Reply-To: <40353737.9080503@jcwren.com> Message-ID: <60584864-6333-11D8-8EA6-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> On Thursday, February 19, 2004, at 02:22 PM, J.C. Wren wrote: > My question is what exactly is the goal? Do you want to run any > existing operating systems? My main use for the machine is to get back to a machine where I can program in machine code, right down on the "iron" I expect to eventually write a focal/basic/somthing interpreter for it. > How much work do you want to put into a paged memory system to support > large amounts of memory? Actually, as several people pointed out, I meant 64K not 640K.. :^) > At some point, why not use an open source core, and use a Xilinx? > Through hole or surface mount? Monolithic system or cards for each > function? Expansion compatible with any existing technology? Probably Through hole, wire wrap - as that would allow the greatest number of us to play. > > I ask these because I've asked myself the same questions. > Somewhere in my queue is laying out a board for a 1802 system. I have > amassed more than enough necessary components, and some interest has > been expressed by others in it. To me, there's not much point in > taking the basic Elf design and making a PC board out of it. I want > to be able to load code over a serial port to it, and use remote > debugging. Front panel switches are fun for a while, but they're a > helluva way to debug by todays standards (I (heart) JTAG). > I've also amassed a considerable amount of 6809 parts for a > similiar project. How compatible to I want to be with other peoples > existing code or hardware? Am I building this just for myself, or > should it be useful to others? In my mind, if I'm going to have mass > storage on it, I want a compact flash and IDE interface (IDE optional, > CF required). How much complexity do I want in my memory manager? > Finally, except for a very few parts, just about all families have > readily available parts, IF you count eBay as a source. Much of my > 6809 stock came from there. Mouser sells 10Mhz Z80s at reasonable > prices, and there's no shortage of peripherials. In fact, that's what > I used in my SOAPOC prototype (< http://tinymicros.com/embedded/Z80 > >). Now that I'm happy with the CF interface, I need to start the > actual design. But I haven't settled on how my MMU and all will work, > since I'd like to support running MP/M and CP/M 3.0 on it. > > This isn't meant to be discouraging. I'm all for the idea, as long > as it's not based on a PIC. Main goals - simple + cheap. PIC's are special purpose aren't they? > > --jc > > Ron Hudson wrote: > >> >> >> 'lo everyone... >> >> Who would be interested in a *new* classic computer.. >> >> it would have room for almost 640K of memory, the remainder being >> taken by >> a simple ROM monitor (like the apple I monitor, or the Polymorphic >> monitor) >> >> What Microprocessors are still being sold new? 6502? Z80? >> >> It would consist of a small board with RAM, ROM, CPU, and a serial >> port. >> >> Best use would be to connect it to a PC running a terminal emulator >> for >> IO and Mass storage. >> >> Is anyone interested? >> >> Perhaps I should just go find a simulator? :^p >> >> ron. >> > From donm at cts.com Thu Feb 19 17:36:51 2004 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:34 2005 Subject: 50Hz vs 60Hz fixed drive speed ? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 19 Feb 2004, Tony Duell wrote: > > > > Hard drives are almost always driven by a DC motor (off the +12v line). > > Perhaps you could tell that to my RK05s, RK07s, RL01s, RL02s, SA4000s, > etc, etc, etc. And the Quantum 8" fixed drives which used an AC motor and required different motor pulleys for 50 and 60 cps power. - don > This is classiccmp, after all :-) > > -tony > From jpl15 at panix.com Thu Feb 19 17:43:34 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:34 2005 Subject: OT-ish... what to do with > 400 relays... In-Reply-To: <1077231917.1527.133.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <1077231917.1527.133.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: On Thu, 19 Feb 2004, Jules Richardson wrote: > Polling list wisdom here... > > Hmm, any suggestions for anything creative to do with around 450 or so > 5V relays? I have a bucket full here (literally). Form? Contacts? terminal type? > > I can't help thinking I should be able to wire up some sort of > interesting computer-esque demonstration with them! (Something nice and > power-hungry, noisy, and with plenty of obligatory status lights :-) Yes: Let's postulate that your bucket is populated with a Generous Quantity of 5V 6PDT relays with sockets. Look up the schematics / articles for the Simon Relay Computer from (I think: others will please correct me) a mid-50s issue of "Popular Electronics", or "Electronics Illustrated", or maybe even "Better Homes and Electromechanical Brains", or some such periodical... anyway these relays would make a dandy Simon, or two, or perhaps a Simon with a Relay Floating Point Processor.... If you use sockets and a PCB layout program like Eagle or ExpressPC - you could even eliminate most of the tedious wiring - depends on just how 'authentic' you wanted to get. Cheers John From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Thu Feb 19 17:57:33 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:34 2005 Subject: New find: Nascom.. umm 2.5.. a.. ish In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Tony Duell > Sent: 19 February 2004 22:44 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: New find: Nascom.. umm 2.5.. a.. ish > > I htink you've both misinterpretted the markings. The CPU > board is a Nascom 2 board (to distinguish it from the Nascom > 1). The PSU is a 3A (3 > amps) unit... It was quite a normal PSU to use with the Nascom 2 Hahahaha! *takes self outside to administer a good slapping* :oD Cheers w From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Thu Feb 19 18:15:19 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:34 2005 Subject: OT-ish... what to do with > 400 relays... In-Reply-To: References: <1077231917.1527.133.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <1077235314.1527.175.camel@weka.localdomain> On Thu, 2004-02-19 at 23:43, John Lawson wrote: > On Thu, 19 Feb 2004, Jules Richardson wrote: > > > Polling list wisdom here... > > > > Hmm, any suggestions for anything creative to do with around 450 or so > > 5V relays? I have a bucket full here (literally). > > > Form? Contacts? terminal type? D'oh, I put that in and then managed to obviously slice it out before I hit send :/ Majority of them are just DPDT types, with a few even just SPDT. Not, I suspect, enough poles to do anything serious with. They're all PCB-mounting miniture types (honking great things with open contacts would be nice, but I wouldn't have the space to store them even if someone gave me a pile of them!). No idea of switch speed, but then maximum speed would not be a design goal anyway! They were pulled from a pile of phone exchange boards; the various CPUs, ROM, RAM and a few useful logic chips + transistors were what I was really after as usable spares, but it seemed a shame not to save all those relays too. cheers Jules From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Thu Feb 19 18:18:07 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:34 2005 Subject: New find: Nascom.. umm 2.5.. a.. ish In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1077235483.1527.177.camel@weka.localdomain> On Thu, 2004-02-19 at 23:57, Witchy wrote: > > I htink you've both misinterpretted the markings. The CPU > > board is a Nascom 2 board (to distinguish it from the Nascom > > 1). The PSU is a 3A (3 > > amps) unit... It was quite a normal PSU to use with the Nascom 2 > > Hahahaha! *takes self outside to administer a good slapping* :oD hehehe, slap this way too... cheers J. From dwight.elvey at amd.com Thu Feb 19 18:05:50 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:34 2005 Subject: 50Hz vs 60Hz fixed drive speed ? Message-ID: <200402200005.QAA19006@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Don Maslin" > > >On Thu, 19 Feb 2004, Tony Duell wrote: > >> > >> > Hard drives are almost always driven by a DC motor (off the +12v line). >> >> Perhaps you could tell that to my RK05s, RK07s, RL01s, RL02s, SA4000s, >> etc, etc, etc. > >And the Quantum 8" fixed drives which used an AC motor and >required different motor pulleys for 50 and 60 cps power. > > - don > Hi I remember when I worked for Intel ( late 70's ). We bought a number of things like printers and disk drives that were for 220VAC/50Hz. On the disk drives, we used a file and some fine sandpaper to reduce the pully size on the motor to work with 60Hz. The voltage problem was solve by a transformer the was to be used on the uScope product. They made nice auto-transformers. The printer I modified just needed the transformer and the change of a cogged belt pully. I bought the pully from a place called Motion Industries. Now if it was 24VAC/400Hz, that is a different conversion problem. For those doing the auto-tranformer method, you need to know that only half the power goes through the transformer for a 110/220 or 220/110 change. Dwight From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Thu Feb 19 18:06:39 2004 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:34 2005 Subject: OT? What 8bit Microprocessors still available new? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: In message Ron Hudson wrote: > Who would be interested in a *new* classic computer.. Me, if my "Build a 6502 computer" project flops. At the moment, I need veroboard, DIN41612 connectors and turned-pin IC sockets. > What Microprocessors are still being sold new? 6502? Z80? 6502: Still manufactured by The Western Design Center: Z80: The CPU that refuses to die (!) - Zilog still make it IIRC: CDP1802: Do Intersil still make 1802s? IMHO the architecture is "a bit" quirky. Then again, I learned assembler on a 6502. > It would consist of a small board with RAM, ROM, CPU, and a serial port. What sort of UART? 16450? 16550? I'd be very tempted to add GPIB (aka HPIB, aka IEEE488) just because it's a very usable bus for connecting stuff like disc drives up. > Best use would be to connect it to a PC running a terminal emulator for > IO and Mass storage. I'd also add an IDE interface and an 80MB hard drive - fun factor again :) Later. -- Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, philpem@dsl.pipex.com | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice, http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI Never underestimate the power of human stupidity -- Robert A. Heinlein From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Thu Feb 19 18:10:27 2004 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:34 2005 Subject: OT? What 8bit Microprocessors still available new? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: In message Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > I don't like to advocate the eviscerating of old computers, but as long as > the parts are being used to build new computers then it's acceptable. Not in my opinion :) If I had two broken VIC20s - one with a fried VIC, CPU, etc. and the other with a dead keyboard, I'd move the working keyboard into the machine with the dead keyboard. As for the utterly fried one? Find out which parts are toast, then gut the board and keep the working parts. Of course, if there's a white ceramic 6502 with gold coverplate, I'd keep that even if it was dead. Later. -- Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, philpem@dsl.pipex.com | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice, http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI ... This is your head..THiS iS yoUR HeAD On WindOwS. From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Thu Feb 19 18:17:39 2004 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:34 2005 Subject: OT? What 8bit Microprocessors still available new? In-Reply-To: <60584864-6333-11D8-8EA6-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> References: <60584864-6333-11D8-8EA6-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: In message <60584864-6333-11D8-8EA6-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> Ron Hudson wrote: > Probably Through hole, wire wrap - as that would allow the greatest > number of us to play. I'd probably use Veroboard and a "wiring pen". I bodged one using an expired Berol "Handwriting" pen (the red things), a chunk of thick copper wire from one of the cores in an offcut of mains wiring cable (the stuff that's designed to go inside walls) and a small reel of "Roadrunner" green 38swg enamelled copper wire. The tip is the standard Berol tip, drilled out with a 0.8mm tungsten carbide drill bit. Much fun. I think I got the idea from one of the pages on ; plenty of good stuff on there, even if most of it is in Japanese. > > This isn't meant to be discouraging. I'm all for the idea, as long > > as it's not based on a PIC. > Main goals - simple + cheap. PIC's are special purpose aren't they? Microcontrollers. See . I use them a lot - they make nice little protocol converters, LED flashers, basically anything that doesn't need to do a great deal of high speed numbercrunching. Yes, the banks/pages/locations architecture is a bit of a pig, but it's not (that) bad once you get used to it. Now, if anyone REALLY wants to flame me, I used a GAL in my "pre-prototype" 6502 computer (really just an LED chaser thing that could do basic math). A GAL as in "generic array logic", a reprogrammable PLD. Well, it saved laying out half a dozen 74LS chips on the breadboard 8^) Later. -- Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, philpem@dsl.pipex.com | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice, http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI ... ASCII and ye shall receive. From dwight.elvey at amd.com Thu Feb 19 18:19:34 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:34 2005 Subject: OT-ish... what to do with > 400 relays... Message-ID: <200402200019.QAA19013@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Jules Richardson" > >On Thu, 2004-02-19 at 23:43, John Lawson wrote: >> On Thu, 19 Feb 2004, Jules Richardson wrote: >> >> > Polling list wisdom here... >> > >> > Hmm, any suggestions for anything creative to do with around 450 or so >> > 5V relays? I have a bucket full here (literally). >> >> >> Form? Contacts? terminal type? > >D'oh, I put that in and then managed to obviously slice it out before I >hit send :/ > >Majority of them are just DPDT types, with a few even just SPDT. Not, I Hi With as little as a SPDT, you can build all of the needed computer functions. the DPDT gives one more freedom in design. Using DC and blocking diodes adds another advantage. If I were going to build such a machine, I'd build it as a single bit alu and serial registers. I'd have a diode matrix with pegs or thumb screws for program memory. I'm not sure how I'd deal with RAM. Of course, using just relays would work but it'd be nice to have some type of non-powered method. The early Zuse machines had a mechanical setup ( that didn't work ). Maybe biased reed relays is an option. Bit width could be anything, even adjustable. Four bits is actually quite useful and less waste compare with 8 bits when you consider that a true false flag would waste an entire word width. Dwight >suspect, enough poles to do anything serious with. They're all >PCB-mounting miniture types (honking great things with open contacts >would be nice, but I wouldn't have the space to store them even if >someone gave me a pile of them!). No idea of switch speed, but then >maximum speed would not be a design goal anyway! > >They were pulled from a pile of phone exchange boards; the various CPUs, >ROM, RAM and a few useful logic chips + transistors were what I was >really after as usable spares, but it seemed a shame not to save all >those relays too. > >cheers > >Jules > From jpl15 at panix.com Thu Feb 19 18:20:32 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:34 2005 Subject: OT-ish... what to do with > 400 relays... In-Reply-To: <1077235314.1527.175.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <1077231917.1527.133.camel@weka.localdomain> <1077235314.1527.175.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: On Thu, 20 Feb 2004, Jules Richardson wrote: > > Majority of them are just DPDT types, with a few even just SPDT. Not, I > suspect, enough poles to do anything serious with. They're all > PCB-mounting miniture types (honking great things with open contacts Well - this is encouraging... if you need more poles, blessed as you are with an embarrasment of relays - you can just double them up. PC-types would make a nice retro-mod Simon... and LEDs for the display... a "best-of-both-worlds" approach, IMHO. To make Simon's I/O a nice Model 15 Baudot Teletypewriter... paper tape storage, keyboard entry, page-printer output... Gee, Mr. Wizard!!! John From pkoning at equallogic.com Thu Feb 19 18:23:52 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:34 2005 Subject: Smoke on the Horizon... oh s**t! References: <9726BA9DE867D51183B900B0D0AB85F8013E48CD@inetmail.atlantissi.com> Message-ID: <16437.21400.738986.325778@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Tony" == Tony Duell writes: >> Now, the questions: what the hell happened? Failures of tantalums >> (I've witnessed) are usually due to reversed polarity: not only >> are these particular parts long-term residents of the boards, but >> the unregulated +12V supply is the highest DC voltage in the >> machine - how did the - terminal (DC Tony> FWIW, I've just had tantalum capacitors explode for no good Tony> reason. In once classic (!) case, I took an IBM CGA card from Tony> the box of PC bits and plugged it into an expansion slot. One Tony> of the tants (a decoupling cap on the 5V rail) exploded, but Tony> the board carried on working, the right image came up on the Tony> monitor, and the machine passed the POST. A good way to have your tantalum cap explode is to install it backwards. That happens occasionally even in products manufactured in volume -- the robots are not 100% foolproof. It may take a while for this to happen. Then again, they also fail due to age, and typically fail shorted. It turns out there are tantalum caps with built-in fuses. You'd use these in cases where you don't want to have the downtime resulting from shorted caps. paul From pkoning at equallogic.com Thu Feb 19 18:26:03 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:34 2005 Subject: OT-ish... what to do with > 400 relays... References: <1077231917.1527.133.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <16437.21531.773188.799691@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Jules" == Jules Richardson writes: Jules> Polling list wisdom here... Hmm, any suggestions for anything Jules> creative to do with around 450 or so 5V relays? I have a Jules> bucket full here (literally). Jules> I can't help thinking I should be able to wire up some sort of Jules> interesting computer-esque demonstration with them! (Something Jules> nice and power-hungry, noisy, and with plenty of obligatory Jules> status lights :-) Build a replica of Mark 1? (Or rather, a modest size piece of Mark 1) The docs are online (!) //www.bitsavers.org/pdf paul From ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net Thu Feb 19 18:34:25 2004 From: ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:34 2005 Subject: OT? What 8bit Microprocessors still available new? In-Reply-To: <200402192330.PAA15766@floodgap.com> Message-ID: <89095EF8-633C-11D8-8EA6-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> On Thursday, February 19, 2004, at 03:30 PM, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > > >> p.s. anyone have a common as blue lint C64SX I could have (the >> portable >> C64)? > > If I wear a blue shirt, I get a lot of blue lint ;) > > They're not too hard to find, in any case. Don't buy them from eBay, > find a > private collector. For the two I own, I paid a grand total of $30 > (really). i'd give you $30 for one of them... if I had a job :^( > > -- > ---------------------------------- personal: > http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- > Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * > ckaiser@floodgap.com > -- Tell the truth, and run. -- Yugoslav proverb > ------------------------------- > From ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net Thu Feb 19 18:36:39 2004 From: ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:34 2005 Subject: OT? What 8bit Microprocessors still available new? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thursday, February 19, 2004, at 04:06 PM, Philip Pemberton wrote: > > I'd be very tempted to add GPIB (aka HPIB, aka IEEE488) just because > it's a > very usable bus for connecting stuff like disc drives up. > >> Best use would be to connect it to a PC running a terminal emulator >> for >> IO and Mass storage. > I'd also add an IDE interface and an 80MB hard drive - fun factor > again :) > I suppose we'll have to take the busses out to an edge-card connector... From oldcomp at cox.net Thu Feb 19 18:49:26 2004 From: oldcomp at cox.net (Bryan Blackburn) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:34 2005 Subject: OT-ish... what to do with > 400 relays... In-Reply-To: <1077231917.1527.133.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <1077231917.1527.133.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <40355996.70508@cox.net> I think I have most if not all of the Simon article: October 1950 RE - 1955-ish(?) I can go dig them out if you decide on such a cool project. 400 relays would be more than enough to build the whole thing if I recall... What fun! -Bryan Jules Richardson wrote: > Polling list wisdom here... > > Hmm, any suggestions for anything creative to do with around 450 or so > 5V relays? I have a bucket full here (literally). > > I can't help thinking I should be able to wire up some sort of > interesting computer-esque demonstration with them! (Something nice and > power-hungry, noisy, and with plenty of obligatory status lights :-) > > Sorry, brain randomly churning over here :-) > > cheers > > Jules > From coredump at gifford.co.uk Thu Feb 19 18:57:35 2004 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:34 2005 Subject: OT? What 8bit Microprocessors still available new? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <40355B7F.4040408@gifford.co.uk> Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > Or just sacrifice an old Apple //e (common as dirt) or C64 (common as > lint) and use the chips inside. That's how I got the 6551 chips -- from old Apple ][ serial cards, which I found at the National Vintage Communications Fair: http://www.nvcf.co.uk -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From tomj at wps.com Thu Feb 19 19:12:08 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:34 2005 Subject: OS/2 Warp question - MPTS? In-Reply-To: <200402182254.i1IMsIjK024906@onyx.spiritone.com> References: <200402182254.i1IMsIjK024906@onyx.spiritone.com> Message-ID: <1077238731.2296.22.camel@dhcp-248194> There's always ARCnet! I used to run ARCnet a lot, it was easier to bring up than a lot of the other hardware, and it worked fine. I think someone recently posted that it's still around too, though you'd need old cards I imagine to get support from old drivers. Ugh, all that RG-62... good luck finding all those 92-ohm terminators! On Wed, 2004-02-18 at 14:54, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > Just got a copy of OS/2 Warp version 3 with the Bonus Pack. (on diskette ... ) > > Loaded it to a notebook I have, 486sx - 8 megs , seems to run just fine. Problem is getting it onto my LAN and the Internet. Win 95 worked fine on this notebook, slow but fine, and I'd like to see what OS/2 looks like on the 'net. > > Unlike most everyone here, I am NOT a rocket scientist and I'm wondering if there is a fairly simple download or something that would let the notebook see the LAN. The manual says something about needing a LAN server and MPTS. Thanks! > > One thing to check is if you have a supported ethernet adapter or not. At > least in V3 the included support for NICs is very limited. > > Zane From vcf at siconic.com Thu Feb 19 19:15:06 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:34 2005 Subject: OT-ish... what to do with > 400 relays... In-Reply-To: <1077231917.1527.133.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: On 19 Feb 2004, Jules Richardson wrote: > Polling list wisdom here... > > Hmm, any suggestions for anything creative to do with around 450 or so > 5V relays? I have a bucket full here (literally). > > I can't help thinking I should be able to wire up some sort of > interesting computer-esque demonstration with them! (Something nice and > power-hungry, noisy, and with plenty of obligatory status lights :-) Build one of these: http://www.widomaker.com/~cswiger/simon/ -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From jcwren at jcwren.com Thu Feb 19 19:19:31 2004 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:34 2005 Subject: OT? What 8bit Microprocessors still available new? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <403560A3.6020409@jcwren.com> If I were going for audience appeal, and you don't plan to be booting CP/M or some other free readily available O/S from the get-go, I'd aim for something that was was well supported. For me, SIMH was a powerful tool in getting the Z80 SBC up. I'd compile the BIOS under the SIMH Z80 emulator running CP/M, upload it to the Linux box, and download it to the ROM emulator. Turn around time was very quick. Problem is, Z80's aren't real interesting. There's lots of software, but they're kinda old hat. Homebrew 6502 systems seem a lot less common, making thier interest level, for me, higher. 1802's even more so. I would favor a CPU that has a static core. Being able to toy with the clock is helpful, especially in the early stages of bringup. While concievable that you could write a disk-based OS on a 8031, the architecture doesn't lend itself well to that. I'd pick something that has a real stack, with a real von-Nuemann architecture. Yes, you can play games with an 8031 and overlap the code and data space by AND'ing /PSEN and /RD, but the instruction set still lacks a real stack, and you're limited to 1.5 16 bit registers (I'm counting the MOVX @P2 mode). Obviously, building something with an external 32 bit bus is going to be more work than a 8 bit or 16 bit bus. 16-bit address and 8 or 16 bit data would be middle of the road. Are you going to stick to 5V logic, or 3.3V? With 3.3V logic, you've got a lot more available choices, these days. If you wanted to play with an ARM core, as far as I know, there are no 5V ARM cores. Or if there are, they're not very common. One neat part is the Philips LPC2106. 128K bytes FLASH, 64K bytes RAM, all on chip. ARM core, timers, 2 serial ports, GNU tools readily available. But it's SMT only. And 3.3V I/O with a 1.8V CPU core. Something like a 6809 would be fun (I like those). When you're done, you could boot OS/9 or Flex/09. If you want to write on the bare metal, it's got a nicer instruction set than the Z80, but lacks registers. You make up for that with more addressing modes, and better relative branches. With a 6809E, the bus interface doesn't get much easier. The original 6809 was a lot more trouble to work with because of the clock requirements. 1802s are fun, too. The have a really neat instruction set that's way ahead of it's time, in some respects. It lacks a real stack, however, so you have to use 7 instructions are so to build a real stack in external memory. There's a fair amount of software, but CPUs are going for ~$10/ea, and the commonly availabel CDP1802ACE is only a 3.2Mhz part. If you want the 5Mhz part, you need a CDP1802BCE, and those are going for a lot more money. The max specs say you can run a 1802 at 6.4Mhz with 10V, but the > 5V parts are less common. You also have to use all CMOS glue logic. Single stepping and using switches to enter/edit memory is trivial. The CPU design supports that pretty much instrinsically, with little extra logic needed. Then there's the venerable 6800. Lots of software, lots of emulators, and OSs are available. Common, easy to find. Sorta like the Z80, though. It's common. You could build a 68000 system. Those are pretty easy to find, have good support, etc. 68K homebrew systems seems to be far less common than Z80s and 6800s. I don't know what support chips you'd need/want to make it play. I've used 68K systems, but never built my own. Slightly on the sluggish side, if you're looking for speed. I don't think the 68Ks started getting fast until the 68030 or so. The 68020 was better, but still no speed demon, IIRC. The NSC32000 would be an uncommon homebrew system. Software may be hard to find, including emulators. I don't see a lot of 32K parts going by on eBay, so you might be hard pressed to come up with what you need one. Same for the Zilog Z8000. These are all the common 8, 16 and 32 bit systems I can recall. At some point, trying to homebrew something like an 80286 gets to be too much trouble. And little reward, in my book. I feel good everytime I throw away anything x86 that's less than an Athlon 1Ghz. And even those are getting ready to get moved to the "why bother?" list. There were some oddities, like the 6502 Forth chip, and several other Forth processors. I don't think I'd want anything with BASIC build in, like the 8031AH-BASIC (you said you wanted bare metal, anyway). Any basic families I missed here, not counting variants like 6510s, CDP1805s, etc? --jc Ron Hudson wrote: > > On Thursday, February 19, 2004, at 04:06 PM, Philip Pemberton wrote: > >> >> I'd be very tempted to add GPIB (aka HPIB, aka IEEE488) just because >> it's a >> very usable bus for connecting stuff like disc drives up. >> >>> Best use would be to connect it to a PC running a terminal emulator for >>> IO and Mass storage. >> >> I'd also add an IDE interface and an 80MB hard drive - fun factor >> again :) >> > > I suppose we'll have to take the busses out to an edge-card connector... > From jcwren at jcwren.com Thu Feb 19 19:31:15 2004 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:34 2005 Subject: OT-ish... what to do with > 400 relays... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <40356363.1090501@jcwren.com> Vintage Computer Festival wrote: >On 19 Feb 2004, Jules Richardson wrote: > > > >>Polling list wisdom here... >> >>Hmm, any suggestions for anything creative to do with around 450 or so >>5V relays? I have a bucket full here (literally). >> >>I can't help thinking I should be able to wire up some sort of >>interesting computer-esque demonstration with them! (Something nice and >>power-hungry, noisy, and with plenty of obligatory status lights :-) >> >> > >Build one of these: > >http://www.widomaker.com/~cswiger/simon/ > > > When I was a wee lad, I used to go to the Buhl Planetarium in Pittsburgh. They had a relay based machine that would play Tic-tac-toe, and either always win, or draw. I dunno how many relays or what contacts/forms you need to implement it. I did a cursory Google search, and didn't see anything that looked like schematics for it. --jc From vcf at siconic.com Thu Feb 19 19:38:17 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:34 2005 Subject: Bernoulli oddness Message-ID: Ok, thanks to the cable Chris Bartlett sent me (thanks, Chris!) I was finally able to bring up my Bernoulli box. It seems the first drive system I tried has a problem. The driver does not see the drive when it loads. The other unit is identified and comes up just fine. Now the problem is reading or formatting disks. I can't get a directory listing or anything. I keep getting sector errors. Using the RCD utility to perform a surface scan, I find that each disk I'm trying basically fails at the same point. Sector #0 is always bad, then the rest of the disk up to cylinder 195 or so verifies fine, and then the errors start again. This is across the 10 or so disks I've tried. I've tried cleaning the heads as best I can. I have a disk cleaning cart but the pads were gone, so I replaced them with new pads (the fuzzy side of some velcro patches) and ran that through the drive. It would be otherwise very difficult to get at the head by disassembling the drive (I tried) and besides, if the heads were still dirty they would not be able to read any part of the disk, right? Any pointers here? It seems odd that, with each disk, the first sector would be bad but then the rest of the disk would be good, only to fail again at a certain point. Was there ever a 20MB Bernoulli drive? If so, my theory is that maybe these were written on a 20MB drive and I'm trying to read them with a 10MB drive, and there's a format incompatibility. Somewhat frustrating... -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From d_cymbal at hotmail.com Thu Feb 19 19:47:51 2004 From: d_cymbal at hotmail.com (Damien Cymbal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:34 2005 Subject: vintage vacuum tube electronic test equipment Message-ID: The equipment has been spoken for. Thanks.> If anyone is interested in the following, it is free for pickup (in the > neighborhood of Salem, NH I believe). > > Please contact Marty at: mpdts20004 at yahoo.com > >===== > >> Hickok mdl 539B tube tester W/crt adapter >> Dumont mdl 304-A o'scope >> HP mdl 623B frequency/time counter >> EICO mdl 304 signal generator (I built from a kit while attending Mass >Radio School in 1961) >> >> Note: I haven't used any of this equipment since the 70's. From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Thu Feb 19 19:45:42 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:34 2005 Subject: OT-ish... what to do with > 400 relays... References: <1077231917.1527.133.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <403566C6.8010803@jetnet.ab.ca> Jules Richardson wrote: > Polling list wisdom here... > > Hmm, any suggestions for anything creative to do with around 450 or so > 5V relays? I have a bucket full here (literally). > > I can't help thinking I should be able to wire up some sort of > interesting computer-esque demonstration with them! (Something nice and > power-hungry, noisy, and with plenty of obligatory status lights :-) > > Sorry, brain randomly churning over here :-) > > cheers > > Jules Why not build Simon! Have 1951 technology live again. http://www.widomaker.com/~cswiger/simon/index.htm Ben. From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Thu Feb 19 19:52:43 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:34 2005 Subject: OT-ish... what to do with > 400 relays... References: <1077231917.1527.133.camel@weka.localdomain> <403566C6.8010803@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <4035686B.50807@jetnet.ab.ca> ben franchuk wrote: > Jules Richardson wrote: > >> Polling list wisdom here... >> >> Hmm, any suggestions for anything creative to do with around 450 or so >> 5V relays? I have a bucket full here (literally). >> >> I can't help thinking I should be able to wire up some sort of >> interesting computer-esque demonstration with them! (Something nice and >> power-hungry, noisy, and with plenty of obligatory status lights :-) >> >> Sorry, brain randomly churning over here :-) >> >> cheers >> >> Jules > > > Why not build Simon! Have 1951 technology live again. > http://www.widomaker.com/~cswiger/simon/index.htm > Ben. Arg!!! That information was already posted. Still the Mark-8's on the same site are nice. http://www.widomaker.com/~cswiger/ From marvin at rain.org Thu Feb 19 20:03:36 2004 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:34 2005 Subject: OT-ish... what to do with > 400 relays... References: <1077231917.1527.133.camel@weka.localdomain> <403566C6.8010803@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <40356AF8.C9E8CAAB@rain.org> The link didn't seem to work, but putting in http://www.widomaker.com/~cswiger/simon/ worked just fine. I have the reprint of the R-E articles from October 1950 to about September or so of 1951. Building one of these things is on my to-do list! ben franchuk wrote: > > Jules Richardson wrote: > > Polling list wisdom here... > > > > Hmm, any suggestions for anything creative to do with around 450 or so > > 5V relays? I have a bucket full here (literally). > > > > I can't help thinking I should be able to wire up some sort of > > interesting computer-esque demonstration with them! (Something nice and > > power-hungry, noisy, and with plenty of obligatory status lights :-) > > > > Sorry, brain randomly churning over here :-) > > > > cheers > > > > Jules > > Why not build Simon! Have 1951 technology live again. > http://www.widomaker.com/~cswiger/simon/index.htm > Ben. From dwight.elvey at amd.com Thu Feb 19 20:09:48 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:34 2005 Subject: OT? What 8bit Microprocessors still available new? Message-ID: <200402200209.SAA19058@clulw009.amd.com> Hi Why not go with something like one of the DSP chips. The ADSP218x family of parts are enough like a real processor that one could do quite a bit. They don't require much external glue parts and can bootstrap them selves from a flash memory. The 2181 has 80K or so of internal RAM and runs at around 30 mips ( or more for newer versions ). You don't even have to deal with the DSP functions if you don't want to. They are still a very powerful processor. Things like bit-banging old flopy disk or tape drives are well within it's capabilities ( I mean raw data ). One can buy demo boards for around $100 and then make add-ons to increase it's functions. Anyway, just a thought. Dwight >From: "J.C. Wren" > > If I were going for audience appeal, and you don't plan to be >booting CP/M or some other free readily available O/S from the get-go, >I'd aim for something that was was well supported. For me, SIMH was a >powerful tool in getting the Z80 SBC up. I'd compile the BIOS under the >SIMH Z80 emulator running CP/M, upload it to the Linux box, and download >it to the ROM emulator. Turn around time was very quick. > > Problem is, Z80's aren't real interesting. There's lots of >software, but they're kinda old hat. Homebrew 6502 systems seem a lot >less common, making thier interest level, for me, higher. 1802's even >more so. I would favor a CPU that has a static core. Being able to toy >with the clock is helpful, especially in the early stages of bringup. > > While concievable that you could write a disk-based OS on a 8031, >the architecture doesn't lend itself well to that. I'd pick something >that has a real stack, with a real von-Nuemann architecture. Yes, you >can play games with an 8031 and overlap the code and data space by >AND'ing /PSEN and /RD, but the instruction set still lacks a real stack, >and you're limited to 1.5 16 bit registers (I'm counting the MOVX @P2 mode). > > Obviously, building something with an external 32 bit bus is going >to be more work than a 8 bit or 16 bit bus. 16-bit address and 8 or 16 >bit data would be middle of the road. Are you going to stick to 5V >logic, or 3.3V? With 3.3V logic, you've got a lot more available >choices, these days. If you wanted to play with an ARM core, as far as >I know, there are no 5V ARM cores. Or if there are, they're not very >common. > > One neat part is the Philips LPC2106. 128K bytes FLASH, 64K bytes >RAM, all on chip. ARM core, timers, 2 serial ports, GNU tools readily >available. But it's SMT only. And 3.3V I/O with a 1.8V CPU core. > > Something like a 6809 would be fun (I like those). When you're >done, you could boot OS/9 or Flex/09. If you want to write on the bare >metal, it's got a nicer instruction set than the Z80, but lacks >registers. You make up for that with more addressing modes, and better >relative branches. With a 6809E, the bus interface doesn't get much >easier. The original 6809 was a lot more trouble to work with because >of the clock requirements. > > 1802s are fun, too. The have a really neat instruction set that's >way ahead of it's time, in some respects. It lacks a real stack, >however, so you have to use 7 instructions are so to build a real stack >in external memory. There's a fair amount of software, but CPUs are >going for ~$10/ea, and the commonly availabel CDP1802ACE is only a >3.2Mhz part. If you want the 5Mhz part, you need a CDP1802BCE, and >those are going for a lot more money. The max specs say you can run a >1802 at 6.4Mhz with 10V, but the > 5V parts are less common. You also >have to use all CMOS glue logic. Single stepping and using switches to >enter/edit memory is trivial. The CPU design supports that pretty much >instrinsically, with little extra logic needed. > > Then there's the venerable 6800. Lots of software, lots of >emulators, and OSs are available. Common, easy to find. Sorta like the >Z80, though. It's common. > > You could build a 68000 system. Those are pretty easy to find, have >good support, etc. 68K homebrew systems seems to be far less common >than Z80s and 6800s. I don't know what support chips you'd need/want to >make it play. I've used 68K systems, but never built my own. Slightly >on the sluggish side, if you're looking for speed. I don't think the >68Ks started getting fast until the 68030 or so. The 68020 was better, >but still no speed demon, IIRC. > > The NSC32000 would be an uncommon homebrew system. Software may be >hard to find, including emulators. I don't see a lot of 32K parts going >by on eBay, so you might be hard pressed to come up with what you need >one. Same for the Zilog Z8000. > > These are all the common 8, 16 and 32 bit systems I can recall. At >some point, trying to homebrew something like an 80286 gets to be too >much trouble. And little reward, in my book. I feel good everytime I >throw away anything x86 that's less than an Athlon 1Ghz. And even those >are getting ready to get moved to the "why bother?" list. There were >some oddities, like the 6502 Forth chip, and several other Forth >processors. I don't think I'd want anything with BASIC build in, like >the 8031AH-BASIC (you said you wanted bare metal, anyway). > > Any basic families I missed here, not counting variants like 6510s, >CDP1805s, etc? > > --jc > >Ron Hudson wrote: > >> >> On Thursday, February 19, 2004, at 04:06 PM, Philip Pemberton wrote: >> >>> >>> I'd be very tempted to add GPIB (aka HPIB, aka IEEE488) just because >>> it's a >>> very usable bus for connecting stuff like disc drives up. >>> >>>> Best use would be to connect it to a PC running a terminal emulator for >>>> IO and Mass storage. >>> >>> I'd also add an IDE interface and an 80MB hard drive - fun factor >>> again :) >>> >> >> I suppose we'll have to take the busses out to an edge-card connector... >> > > From marvin at rain.org Thu Feb 19 20:16:11 2004 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:34 2005 Subject: Lamp Identification Message-ID: <40356DEB.F3212497@rain.org> I have a bag of lamps with no part number or identification. They appear to be either 18V or 24V lamps, and a picture (85K or so) is at http://www.rain.org/~marvin/lamps.jpg. Anyone know what these things are used for? From cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net Thu Feb 19 20:19:42 2004 From: cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:34 2005 Subject: OT? What 8bit Microprocessors still available new? In-Reply-To: <05983460-6330-11D8-8EA6-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> References: <05983460-6330-11D8-8EA6-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <40356EBE.4090804@4mcnabb.net> Ron Hudson wrote: > p.s. anyone have a common as blue lint C64SX I could have (the > portable C64)? Uhm, I have one but you can't have it. You can look at pictures of it though. http://cmcnabb.cc.vt.edu/cube_museum From dwight.elvey at amd.com Thu Feb 19 20:09:48 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:34 2005 Subject: OT? What 8bit Microprocessors still available new? Message-ID: <200402200209.SAA19058@clulw009.amd.com> Hi Why not go with something like one of the DSP chips. The ADSP218x family of parts are enough like a real processor that one could do quite a bit. They don't require much external glue parts and can bootstrap them selves from a flash memory. The 2181 has 80K or so of internal RAM and runs at around 30 mips ( or more for newer versions ). You don't even have to deal with the DSP functions if you don't want to. They are still a very powerful processor. Things like bit-banging old flopy disk or tape drives are well within it's capabilities ( I mean raw data ). One can buy demo boards for around $100 and then make add-ons to increase it's functions. Anyway, just a thought. Dwight >From: "J.C. Wren" > > If I were going for audience appeal, and you don't plan to be >booting CP/M or some other free readily available O/S from the get-go, >I'd aim for something that was was well supported. For me, SIMH was a >powerful tool in getting the Z80 SBC up. I'd compile the BIOS under the >SIMH Z80 emulator running CP/M, upload it to the Linux box, and download >it to the ROM emulator. Turn around time was very quick. > > Problem is, Z80's aren't real interesting. There's lots of >software, but they're kinda old hat. Homebrew 6502 systems seem a lot >less common, making thier interest level, for me, higher. 1802's even >more so. I would favor a CPU that has a static core. Being able to toy >with the clock is helpful, especially in the early stages of bringup. > > While concievable that you could write a disk-based OS on a 8031, >the architecture doesn't lend itself well to that. I'd pick something >that has a real stack, with a real von-Nuemann architecture. Yes, you >can play games with an 8031 and overlap the code and data space by >AND'ing /PSEN and /RD, but the instruction set still lacks a real stack, >and you're limited to 1.5 16 bit registers (I'm counting the MOVX @P2 mode). > > Obviously, building something with an external 32 bit bus is going >to be more work than a 8 bit or 16 bit bus. 16-bit address and 8 or 16 >bit data would be middle of the road. Are you going to stick to 5V >logic, or 3.3V? With 3.3V logic, you've got a lot more available >choices, these days. If you wanted to play with an ARM core, as far as >I know, there are no 5V ARM cores. Or if there are, they're not very >common. > > One neat part is the Philips LPC2106. 128K bytes FLASH, 64K bytes >RAM, all on chip. ARM core, timers, 2 serial ports, GNU tools readily >available. But it's SMT only. And 3.3V I/O with a 1.8V CPU core. > > Something like a 6809 would be fun (I like those). When you're >done, you could boot OS/9 or Flex/09. If you want to write on the bare >metal, it's got a nicer instruction set than the Z80, but lacks >registers. You make up for that with more addressing modes, and better >relative branches. With a 6809E, the bus interface doesn't get much >easier. The original 6809 was a lot more trouble to work with because >of the clock requirements. > > 1802s are fun, too. The have a really neat instruction set that's >way ahead of it's time, in some respects. It lacks a real stack, >however, so you have to use 7 instructions are so to build a real stack >in external memory. There's a fair amount of software, but CPUs are >going for ~$10/ea, and the commonly availabel CDP1802ACE is only a >3.2Mhz part. If you want the 5Mhz part, you need a CDP1802BCE, and >those are going for a lot more money. The max specs say you can run a >1802 at 6.4Mhz with 10V, but the > 5V parts are less common. You also >have to use all CMOS glue logic. Single stepping and using switches to >enter/edit memory is trivial. The CPU design supports that pretty much >instrinsically, with little extra logic needed. > > Then there's the venerable 6800. Lots of software, lots of >emulators, and OSs are available. Common, easy to find. Sorta like the >Z80, though. It's common. > > You could build a 68000 system. Those are pretty easy to find, have >good support, etc. 68K homebrew systems seems to be far less common >than Z80s and 6800s. I don't know what support chips you'd need/want to >make it play. I've used 68K systems, but never built my own. Slightly >on the sluggish side, if you're looking for speed. I don't think the >68Ks started getting fast until the 68030 or so. The 68020 was better, >but still no speed demon, IIRC. > > The NSC32000 would be an uncommon homebrew system. Software may be >hard to find, including emulators. I don't see a lot of 32K parts going >by on eBay, so you might be hard pressed to come up with what you need >one. Same for the Zilog Z8000. > > These are all the common 8, 16 and 32 bit systems I can recall. At >some point, trying to homebrew something like an 80286 gets to be too >much trouble. And little reward, in my book. I feel good everytime I >throw away anything x86 that's less than an Athlon 1Ghz. And even those >are getting ready to get moved to the "why bother?" list. There were >some oddities, like the 6502 Forth chip, and several other Forth >processors. I don't think I'd want anything with BASIC build in, like >the 8031AH-BASIC (you said you wanted bare metal, anyway). > > Any basic families I missed here, not counting variants like 6510s, >CDP1805s, etc? > > --jc > >Ron Hudson wrote: > >> >> On Thursday, February 19, 2004, at 04:06 PM, Philip Pemberton wrote: >> >>> >>> I'd be very tempted to add GPIB (aka HPIB, aka IEEE488) just because >>> it's a >>> very usable bus for connecting stuff like disc drives up. >>> >>>> Best use would be to connect it to a PC running a terminal emulator for >>>> IO and Mass storage. >>> >>> I'd also add an IDE interface and an 80MB hard drive - fun factor >>> again :) >>> >> >> I suppose we'll have to take the busses out to an edge-card connector... >> > > From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Thu Feb 19 20:40:34 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:34 2005 Subject: OT? What 8bit Microprocessors still available new? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040220024034.GA2116@bos7.spole.gov> On Thu, Feb 19, 2004 at 03:05:07PM -0800, Patrick Rigney wrote: > And 1802s and 6800s as well... --Patrick New 1802s aren't cheap - $50 last time I looked (we use them at U-W for Antarctic automated weather stations). I've found them much cheaper, and semi-new (1999), on ePay. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 20-Feb-2004 02:31 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -43.5 F (-42.0 C) Windchill -82.09 F (-63.4 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 10.4 kts Grid 068 Barometer 690.2 mb (10242. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From dvcorbin at optonline.net Thu Feb 19 21:21:08 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:34 2005 Subject: OT-ish... what to do with > 400 relays... In-Reply-To: <1077231917.1527.133.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: Boy that brings back memories...I build a 3 bit "computer" back in 1972 that was made completely out of 6V Sigma relays. In order to get a "multi-phase clock" I used a motor from a washjing machine timer to drive an armature around a homemade circuit board. The beast lived on a 3x6 FOOT peice of plywood. Still have the pictures in a box somewhere...... >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org >>> [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Jules Richardson >>> Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 6:05 PM >>> To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >>> Subject: OT-ish... what to do with > 400 relays... >>> >>> Polling list wisdom here... >>> >>> Hmm, any suggestions for anything creative to do with >>> around 450 or so 5V relays? I have a bucket full here (literally). >>> >>> I can't help thinking I should be able to wire up some sort >>> of interesting computer-esque demonstration with them! >>> (Something nice and power-hungry, noisy, and with plenty of >>> obligatory status lights :-) >>> >>> Sorry, brain randomly churning over here :-) >>> >>> cheers >>> >>> Jules From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Feb 19 21:17:40 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:34 2005 Subject: Orlando Hamfest finds, Final day. Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040219221740.008a0100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Steve, Go look for the Prolog service manual! Here's a list of the stuff that I got at the hamfest. Joe Just got back from the last (1/2) day of the hamfest. Todays haul; Two boxs of HP and Tektronix manuals. A pile of IBM RS/6000 docs A studio grade RGB monitor (hopefully to replace SEVERAL of the Sun, HP and SGI RGB monitors that I current have) A Compaq Portable III A HP 214A Pulse generator (an oldie but it will pulse 100V into 50Ohms and none of the new stuff will do that) A Sinclair ZX-61 with accessories (Glen, are you listening?) An IBM PS/2 model 8525 (Kelvin?) A pouch with a HP Logic Probe, Currrent Probe, Chip Clip and Logic Pulser. Joe PS the LD Xpro programmer has the plug in for the 44 pin PLCC 80x51 type devices. Two days down and one to go. Here's the haul so far" HP 9845B (appears to be loaded) HP 1000 computer (yes, another one!) HP 1351 Graphics Generator (vector graphics for the HP 1000!) HP 3468 DMM with HP-IL interface Three large boxs of early data books Original early IBM PC. Appears to be untampered with. Some NEC APC III manuals. Passed up several more boxfuls of these. Anybody need them? NuBus prototypiong board made by Apple. This one has two ROMs and a 68000 installed at the factory. Anybody know what the story is on that? P133 notebook computer with Network Stumbler installed (this should be fun!) A like new Logical Devices XPro EPROM programmer with the PLCC plugins. An IR black body source with controller Drum roll please. Taa Da! National Semiconductor Pacer SBC Passed up a Sparc notebook computer but got a lead on some Apple Lisa parts. Joe From dvcorbin at optonline.net Thu Feb 19 21:24:46 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:34 2005 Subject: Microprocessor....New Computer???? In-Reply-To: <60584864-6333-11D8-8EA6-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: Has anyone considered the Gizmo? Has all of the features that have been mentioned here. Available as a kit or pre-built. As a bonus it is software compatible with a PDP-8 (you can actually run Focal-69 on it...) I have one here, that I use quite a bit. Not true classic iron, but while I wait for a real PDP-8, it fits a nice void.... Of course if anyone has a true '8 that they would like to trade ;) >>> From vcf at siconic.com Thu Feb 19 21:20:15 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:34 2005 Subject: OT-ish... what to do with > 400 relays... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 19 Feb 2004, David V. Corbin wrote: > Boy that brings back memories...I build a 3 bit "computer" back in 1972 that > was made completely out of 6V Sigma relays. In order to get a "multi-phase > clock" I used a motor from a washjing machine timer to drive an armature > around a homemade circuit board. The beast lived on a 3x6 FOOT peice of > plywood. Still have the pictures in a box somewhere...... What on Earth? Please post the pics! 3 bits??? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Thu Feb 19 21:19:12 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:34 2005 Subject: Microprocessor....New Computer???? References: Message-ID: <40357CB0.4030607@jetnet.ab.ca> David V. Corbin wrote: > Has anyone considered the Gizmo? > > Has all of the features that have been mentioned here. Available as a kit or > pre-built. > > As a bonus it is software compatible with a PDP-8 (you can actually run > Focal-69 on it...) > > I have one here, that I use quite a bit. Not true classic iron, but while I > wait for a real PDP-8, it fits a nice void.... > > Of course if anyone has a true '8 that they would like to trade ;) I still would like to see a NICE OS/9 ( 6809 ) system. * No , I don't want a COCO system * From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Feb 19 21:28:59 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:34 2005 Subject: Perq 2T1 display fault In-Reply-To: <1077232626.1528.143.camel@weka.localdomain> from "Jules Richardson" at Feb 19, 4 11:17:07 pm Message-ID: > > On Thu, 2004-02-19 at 21:50, Tony Duell wrote: > > > > I will have to dig out the > > schematics sometime (yes I have the full manuals...) > > I thought if anyone had details on them it'd be you :-) Alas at the momnet (just come out of hospital, hence the absnece from this list for a couple of weeks), I don't really feel like climbing over the VAX rack to get to them... > > (Aside - does PERQ stand for something, or was it originally all > capitals just as a trendy marketing thing?) No, it was claimed to be an acronym : Pascal Evaluation Real Quick (or Really Quickly). The machine, remember, was intended to run Q-code (a bit like UCSD p-code, but with some graphics instructions) as its machine code... > > > I would start, though, by checking the 55V line from the PERQ's PSU to > > the monitor. If that's low or noisy, you'll have all sorts of problems... > > Rats, I did last weekend and it didn't seem *too* low but I haven't got > the exact figure with me at the mo. I believe it was sitting at 50V or I would still check it with a 'scope. I'll see if I can find the manual in the next day or so... Just to confirm, we're talking about a PERQ 1 here -- it's confusing to me wether this is a PERQ 1 (verically-mounted SA4000 hard disk at the left side, monito connects on a single DC37 connector) or a PERQ 2T1 (Micropolis 1203 hard disk at the back, monitor connects via a 3 pin DIN (power), DA15 (sync, keyboard,mouse) and NBNC (video signal)). I have manuals for both Actually, if it's a 2T1, then the monitor is a KME chassis, and is one of the few conventional monitors on the PERQ. > (does appropriate media exist out in the public domain to rebuild the > hard disk contents if needs be? Of course finding a replacement drive if > that breaks is another matter entirely) Public Domain, not as far as I know (I am not sure who owns the copyright now). Exists in the hands of enthusiasts? Yes, most certainly. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Feb 19 21:40:42 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:34 2005 Subject: OT-ish... what to do with > 400 relays... In-Reply-To: <1077231917.1527.133.camel@weka.localdomain> from "Jules Richardson" at Feb 19, 4 11:05:18 pm Message-ID: > > Polling list wisdom here... > > Hmm, any suggestions for anything creative to do with around 450 or so > 5V relays? I have a bucket full here (literally). > > I can't help thinking I should be able to wire up some sort of > interesting computer-esque demonstration with them! (Something nice and > power-hungry, noisy, and with plenty of obligatory status lights :-) A few random thoughts... You say they're mostly SPDT types, IIRC. You can. of course. parallel the coils of several relays to make more poles if you need them. Traditionally, the thing to build would be a tic=tac-toe machine :-) See if you can find 'We built our own computers', perhaps on an inter-library loan. It describes a few simple relay computers... My guess is that with 450 relays you could make a simple 4 bit ALU, a couple of registiers, etc, and sequence the whole thing using a home-made paper tape reader.. Sounds like a fun project... -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Feb 19 21:44:30 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:35 2005 Subject: OT? What 8bit Microprocessors still available new? In-Reply-To: from "Ron Hudson" at Feb 19, 4 04:36:39 pm Message-ID: > I suppose we'll have to take the busses out to an edge-card connector... Use a DIN 41612 'indirect edge connector' (as used on Nubus boards, etc). They have the advantage that you don't need to gold-plate the PCB (AFAIK impossible to do at home, the chemicals are nasty...), and thay they're darn reliable. -tony From esharpe at uswest.net Thu Feb 19 21:54:01 2004 From: esharpe at uswest.net (ed sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:35 2005 Subject: OT-ish... what to do with > 400 relays... References: Message-ID: <001b01c3f765$2d88e650$c2956d44@SONYDIGITALED> yea show us the photos man! ed! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vintage Computer Festival" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 8:20 PM Subject: RE: OT-ish... what to do with > 400 relays... > On Thu, 19 Feb 2004, David V. Corbin wrote: > > > Boy that brings back memories...I build a 3 bit "computer" back in 1972 that > > was made completely out of 6V Sigma relays. In order to get a "multi-phase > > clock" I used a motor from a washjing machine timer to drive an armature > > around a homemade circuit board. The beast lived on a 3x6 FOOT peice of > > plywood. Still have the pictures in a box somewhere...... > > What on Earth? > > Please post the pics! > > 3 bits??? > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage mputers ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > > > From thedm at sunflower.com Thu Feb 19 22:30:28 2004 From: thedm at sunflower.com (Bill Girnius) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:35 2005 Subject: OS/2 Warp question - MPTS? References: <5.1.1.6.0.20040219020923.036fbfb8@pop.freeserve.net><000d01c3f692$19d5b580$0200a8c0@look.ca><005f01c3f6e6$3715c370$6501a8c0@barton> <001701c3f6ff$4e8a84a0$0200a8c0@look.ca> Message-ID: <007301c3f76a$47df81d0$6501a8c0@barton> Laptops were never well supported for OS/2 even the IBM thinkpads, if you can get a 3com nic they still have OS2 drivers on their downloads. PCMCIA was a fledgeling technology when warp 3.0 was out, if you really wanna play with it, try it on a desktop with an old 3com nic and it will work great, laptop..hmm not sure it would work easily even if you found the right driver,.... unless of course it was a thinkpad with a 3com pcmcia card. If you really get bored, got to IBM's knowledge base in the thinkpad section and search for OS2, it's amazing that a company that makes both products makes them work so bad together. Hope this helps, and if nothing else, you have fun, that is why we do all this crazy stuff :) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Mahoney" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 9:44 AM Subject: Re: OS/2 Warp question - MPTS? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bill Girnius" > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 7:45 AM > Subject: Re: OS/2 Warp question - MPTS? > > > > Found it, the "DOS LAN REQUESTOR DISKS 1-4" can be found here: > > > > http://www.os2site.com/sw/network/lansrv/index.html > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Brian Mahoney" > > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > > > Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2004 8:42 PM > > Subject: Re: OS/2 Warp question - MPTS? > > > > > > > > Thanks Bill! I had the first link and spent a long time deciphering it but > the second one looks like a more useful offering. Now the problem may be > adapter drivers. I have a 16 bit 'Sohoware' pcmcia card. Didn't come with > drivers and if it did I am sure no OS/2 drivers. I may try the other pcmcia > drivers listed to see if one works. > Gotta say that os/2 is pretty good so far. Faster than Win95 I believe and > except for some differing commands it kinda feels like home er.. I mean > Windows. > Thanks again. > > BM > From dvcorbin at optonline.net Thu Feb 19 22:37:40 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:35 2005 Subject: OT-ish... what to do with > 400 relays... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I will have to look for them, they are deep in storage will other items from my teenage years. A little bit of the history though.... My father was a wireman/engineering prototype builder. This is back in the days when most systems had significant harnesses thay were hand made (with lacing cord, no such thing a tie wraps). The harnesses were build (typically my placing a full size blueprint on a piece of plywood, placing "nails" at all of the junction points and curves, and springs at the end of each leg. The wires would them be cut to length, stripped, tinned (coated with solder) and placed onto the board. Lacing cord would then be usig to tie the wires together (I can still do a half decent running stitch, but can not find any waxed lacing cord....). While my father had quite a reputation in the New York area, and was sought after for may projects by companies such as Grumman, he really did not have much of a background in how the devices actually worked. On the other hand, I was growing up around this stuff (burned my hand on a soldering iron for the first time at the age of 2), and was always curious. A number of the companies my father did business with had computers (often a teletype with an acoustic coupler tied into a timeshare service). The engineers there would often sign me in, and let me play one of the available games. This started my interest in computers. These same companiew would regularly scrap various prototype and test fixtures. I would take them home (more often my father actually brought them to me), and scavange the parts. One of the most common items (froma company named Beukers Labs if memory serves...) were SPDT 6V relays (about one cubic inch in size). I had a few hundred of them. I had learned about digital logic gates, but had no ready access to any integrated circuits. My skills were not good enough to make transistors work reliably (my fault not theirs). So many of my project wer based on relays. I figured out how to make inverters, or gates, and gates and latches. I started to combine these into larger circuits. At about the same time my father brought home a 1967 Digital Logic Handbook. I was completely fascinated by M series modules (flip chips) and the fact they could build a real computer (ok they used transistors, but what the heck). The "project was born. I started figuring out how to implement a simple instruction set (CLR, ADD, STORE, TEST, JUMP, READ (Switches), DISPLAY (LAMPS), NOP). The number of relays was quickly astronomical (try to build an adder with carry....). Since 3 bits was enough to define an instruction, it became the word size. Since 3x6 was a standard size for the harness boards (and we had lots of them!), I used one of them for the layout. After spending quite some time, I came up with most of the "schematic" and proceeded to start building a harness. Once the harnes was build, I screwed the relays directly to the board, and soldered the wires to them. Of course it did NOT work...But after much troubleshooting (including wripping most of the harness apart, flywiring between various points. I got the beast to do what it was designed to do (which really turned out to be nothing usefull at all... 8 data locations, 1 accumulator, one input port (3 bits), one output ports (3 bits), and 16 instruction locations (which as a result ment you could only jump to "even" instruction bytes... Amazing I was so proud of it. That fall I got the opportunity to be on the school districts "new" PDP-8, and the rest of my life was set in motion.... From vcf at siconic.com Thu Feb 19 22:35:50 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:35 2005 Subject: HP ScanJet ADF Message-ID: I just got an HP ScanJet ADF. Does anyone have an opinion on this either way? Worth keeping or not up to the strict scanning standards of a Vintage Computer Collector? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Thu Feb 19 22:38:28 2004 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:35 2005 Subject: OS/2 Warp question - MPTS? Message-ID: Re: OS/2 support on laptops: First thing you have to do is make sure that card/socket services or whatever is required to get PCMCIA cards recognized. You will also need the NDIS driver for whatever NIC you want to use. I use a 3com 3c589 in my thinkpad 770 and it works fine. You really need to get Warp Connect. You can still make disks off the CD if you have to. I have had to do that and noted no problems. Setting up LAN access is not too bad as long as you do it right the first time. Basically all you need is IBM peer. The main bug is that if the LAN settings are incorrect, you get a message about netwrksta.400 or something like that won't load so you have you edit the ibmlan.ini file. The os2.setup newsgroup people can help you out if you have problems. -- I am not willing to give up my liberties for the promise of 'security' From rdd at rddavis.org Thu Feb 19 23:02:50 2004 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:35 2005 Subject: VAX console and crossover cable problem Message-ID: <20040220045549.GF13924@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Trying to save space and not use a real terminal at this time, I decided to wire my VAX 4000-200's console to a serial port on my Sun Ultra-1... however, nothing seems to be working when I try connecting to it with tip (the port, set for 9600 BPS, appears to be ok, since I can get an OK response from a modem). However, there's no response at all on the Sun when I attempt connecting to the VAX using tip or cu. Kermit, even if run as root, is giving me a "Sorry, write access to UUCP lockfile directory denied." message; need to sort that out, but I think that's a separate issue. The LED indicator on the VAX counted dow to three, waiting to boot, so that seems to be ok. Here's how I wired the crossover cable (typical crossover cable wiring, should work, right?): MMJ DB25 DTR 1 ---- 6, 8 DSR, DCD TX+ 2 ---- 3 RD TX- 3 ---- 7 Sig Gnd RX- 4 ---- 7 RX+ 5 ---- 2 TD DSR 6 ---- 20 DTR ----------- MMJ pinout I'm using, 1 2 3 4 5 6 - viewed from -------+ + console +--+ Any ideas as to what I'm doing wrong? Didn't use my breakout box yet, since I need to get new batteries for it. -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From esharpe at uswest.net Thu Feb 19 23:09:25 2004 From: esharpe at uswest.net (ed sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:35 2005 Subject: **********Re: HP ScanJet ADF References: Message-ID: <002a01c3f76f$b57d8ac0$c2956d44@SONYDIGITALED> we would give it a home if it was for the orig. scanjet. actually need an orig scanjet.... not the scan jet plus. need the hp 150 poster with the butterfly on it any of that early 80's hp microstuff... as Computer Exchange Inc. was an HP dealer and since I was the CEO I have a fond spot in my heart for it so therefore I make sure the museum ahs an ample display of it! ( it is good to relive one's childhood!) anybody with material of this nature from this era please contact us. the stars in the message header is so I can take note of any messages relating to thins between all the listservs that dump to this box and the spam that ends up here! Thanks Ed Sharpe archivist for SMECC Please check our web site at http://www.smecc.org to see other engineering fields, communications and computation stuff we buy, and by all means when in Arizona drop in and see us. address: coury house / smecc 5802 w palmaire ave glendale az 85301 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vintage Computer Festival" To: "Classic Computers Mailing List" Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 9:35 PM Subject: HP ScanJet ADF > > I just got an HP ScanJet ADF. > > Does anyone have an opinion on this either way? Worth keeping or not up > to the strict scanning standards of a Vintage Computer Collector? > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage mputers ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > > > From rdd at rddavis.org Thu Feb 19 23:25:34 2004 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:35 2005 Subject: VAX console data lines reported by kermit Message-ID: <20040220051837.GH13924@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Solved the kermit problem, and I see that, according to kermit, when connected to the VAX: CD = off DSR = off CTS = off DTR = on RTS = on Still, as with tip and cu, no response from the VAX. -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From esharpe at uswest.net Thu Feb 19 23:13:18 2004 From: esharpe at uswest.net (ed sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:35 2005 Subject: OT-ish... what to do with > 400 relays... References: Message-ID: <004301c3f770$40ad4180$c2956d44@SONYDIGITALED> an interesting start! thanks for sharing! shall look forward to seeing the pics... this would be a neat 1st hand experienced history to post up on the museum's web site for the 'kids' to look at..... ed! ----- Original Message ----- From: "David V. Corbin" To: "'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'" Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 9:37 PM Subject: RE: OT-ish... what to do with > 400 relays... > I will have to look for them, they are deep in storage will other items from > my teenage years. > > A little bit of the history though.... > > My father was a wireman/engineering prototype builder. This is back in the > days when most systems had significant harnesses thay were hand made (with > lacing cord, no such thing a tie wraps). The harnesses were build (typically > my placing a full size blueprint on a piece of plywood, placing "nails" at > all of the junction points and curves, and springs at the end of each leg. > The wires would them be cut to length, stripped, tinned (coated with solder) > and placed onto the board. Lacing cord would then be usig to tie the wires > together (I can still do a half decent running stitch, but can not find any > waxed lacing cord....). > > While my father had quite a reputation in the New York area, and was sought > after for may projects by companies such as Grumman, he really did not have > much of a background in how the devices actually worked. On the other hand, > I was growing up around this stuff (burned my hand on a soldering iron for > the first time at the age of 2), and was always curious. > > A number of the companies my father did business with had computers (often a > teletype with an acoustic coupler tied into a timeshare service). The > engineers there would often sign me in, and let me play one of the available > games. This started my interest in computers. These same companiew would > regularly scrap various prototype and test fixtures. I would take them home > (more often my father actually brought them to me), and scavange the parts. > One of the most common items (froma company named Beukers Labs if memory > serves...) were SPDT 6V relays (about one cubic inch in size). I had a few > hundred of them. > > I had learned about digital logic gates, but had no ready access to any > integrated circuits. My skills were not good enough to make transistors work > reliably (my fault not theirs). So many of my project wer based on relays. I > figured out how to make inverters, or gates, and gates and latches. I > started to combine these into larger circuits. At about the same time my > father brought home a 1967 Digital Logic Handbook. I was completely > fascinated by M series modules (flip chips) and the fact they could build a > real computer (ok they used transistors, but what the heck). The "project > was born. > > I started figuring out how to implement a simple instruction set (CLR, ADD, > STORE, TEST, JUMP, READ (Switches), DISPLAY (LAMPS), NOP). The number of > relays was quickly astronomical (try to build an adder with carry....). > Since 3 bits was enough to define an instruction, it became the word size. > > Since 3x6 was a standard size for the harness boards (and we had lots of > them!), I used one of them for the layout. After spending quite some time, I > came up with most of the "schematic" and proceeded to start building a > harness. Once the harnes was build, I screwed the relays directly to the > board, and soldered the wires to them. > > Of course it did NOT work...But after much troubleshooting (including > wripping most of the harness apart, flywiring between various points. I got > the beast to do what it was designed to do (which really turned out to be > nothing usefull at all... 8 data locations, 1 accumulator, one input port (3 > bits), one output ports (3 bits), and 16 instruction locations (which as a > result ment you could only jump to "even" instruction bytes... > > Amazing I was so proud of it. That fall I got the opportunity to be on the > school districts "new" PDP-8, and the rest of my life was set in motion.... > > > > > > From esharpe at uswest.net Thu Feb 19 23:14:57 2004 From: esharpe at uswest.net (ed sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:35 2005 Subject: OT-ish... what to do with > 400 relays... References: Message-ID: <004801c3f770$7ba5d810$c2956d44@SONYDIGITALED> I too did a relay project but it was just a glorified adding machine to take the drudgery out of adding columns of numbers our 6 grade math teacher would assign to us... used to irritate him when I would not 'show my work' ed! ----- Original Message ----- From: "David V. Corbin" To: "'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'" Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 9:37 PM Subject: RE: OT-ish... what to do with > 400 relays... > I will have to look for them, they are deep in storage will other items from > my teenage years. > > A little bit of the history though.... > > My father was a wireman/engineering prototype builder. This is back in the > days when most systems had significant harnesses thay were hand made (with > lacing cord, no such thing a tie wraps). The harnesses were build (typically > my placing a full size blueprint on a piece of plywood, placing "nails" at > all of the junction points and curves, and springs at the end of each leg. > The wires would them be cut to length, stripped, tinned (coated with solder) > and placed onto the board. Lacing cord would then be usig to tie the wires > together (I can still do a half decent running stitch, but can not find any > waxed lacing cord....). > > While my father had quite a reputation in the New York area, and was sought > after for may projects by companies such as Grumman, he really did not have > much of a background in how the devices actually worked. On the other hand, > I was growing up around this stuff (burned my hand on a soldering iron for > the first time at the age of 2), and was always curious. > > A number of the companies my father did business with had computers (often a > teletype with an acoustic coupler tied into a timeshare service). The > engineers there would often sign me in, and let me play one of the available > games. This started my interest in computers. These same companiew would > regularly scrap various prototype and test fixtures. I would take them home > (more often my father actually brought them to me), and scavange the parts. > One of the most common items (froma company named Beukers Labs if memory > serves...) were SPDT 6V relays (about one cubic inch in size). I had a few > hundred of them. > > I had learned about digital logic gates, but had no ready access to any > integrated circuits. My skills were not good enough to make transistors work > reliably (my fault not theirs). So many of my project wer based on relays. I > figured out how to make inverters, or gates, and gates and latches. I > started to combine these into larger circuits. At about the same time my > father brought home a 1967 Digital Logic Handbook. I was completely > fascinated by M series modules (flip chips) and the fact they could build a > real computer (ok they used transistors, but what the heck). The "project > was born. > > I started figuring out how to implement a simple instruction set (CLR, ADD, > STORE, TEST, JUMP, READ (Switches), DISPLAY (LAMPS), NOP). The number of > relays was quickly astronomical (try to build an adder with carry....). > Since 3 bits was enough to define an instruction, it became the word size. > > Since 3x6 was a standard size for the harness boards (and we had lots of > them!), I used one of them for the layout. After spending quite some time, I > came up with most of the "schematic" and proceeded to start building a > harness. Once the harnes was build, I screwed the relays directly to the > board, and soldered the wires to them. > > Of course it did NOT work...But after much troubleshooting (including > wripping most of the harness apart, flywiring between various points. I got > the beast to do what it was designed to do (which really turned out to be > nothing usefull at all... 8 data locations, 1 accumulator, one input port (3 > bits), one output ports (3 bits), and 16 instruction locations (which as a > result ment you could only jump to "even" instruction bytes... > > Amazing I was so proud of it. That fall I got the opportunity to be on the > school districts "new" PDP-8, and the rest of my life was set in motion.... > > > > > > From vax3900 at yahoo.com Thu Feb 19 23:40:04 2004 From: vax3900 at yahoo.com (SHAUN RIPLEY) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:35 2005 Subject: VAX console and crossover cable problem In-Reply-To: <20040220045549.GF13924@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <20040220054004.22128.qmail@web60701.mail.yahoo.com> I measured my working cable and it matches your cable. I use the DOS terminal program telix and the setting is 9600, N, 8, 1 that I think means no parity, 8 bit, 1 stop bit. Did you set your 4000-200's baud rate correctly? --- "R. D. Davis" wrote: > Trying to save space and not use a real terminal at > this time, I > decided to wire my VAX 4000-200's console to a > serial port on my Sun > Ultra-1... however, nothing seems to be working when > I try connecting > to it with tip (the port, set for 9600 BPS, appears > to be ok, since I > can get an OK response from a modem). However, > there's no response at > all on the Sun when I attempt connecting to the VAX > using tip or cu. > Kermit, even if run as root, is giving me a "Sorry, > write access to > UUCP lockfile directory denied." message; need to > sort that out, but > I think that's a separate issue. > > The LED indicator on the VAX counted dow to three, > waiting to boot, so > that seems to be ok. > > Here's how I wired the crossover cable (typical > crossover cable wiring, > should work, right?): > > MMJ DB25 > > DTR 1 ---- 6, 8 DSR, DCD > TX+ 2 ---- 3 RD > TX- 3 ---- 7 Sig Gnd > RX- 4 ---- 7 > RX+ 5 ---- 2 TD > DSR 6 ---- 20 DTR > > ----------- MMJ pinout I'm using, > 1 2 3 4 5 6 - viewed from > -------+ + console > +--+ > > > Any ideas as to what I'm doing wrong? Didn't use my > breakout box yet, > since I need to get new batteries for it. > > -- > Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference > between humans & other animals: > All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief > that we're above Nature & > rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, > using dogma to justify such > http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to > justify much human cruelty. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want. http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools From aw288 at osfn.org Thu Feb 19 23:49:41 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:35 2005 Subject: OT-ish... what to do with > 400 relays... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > The wires would them be cut to length, stripped, tinned (coated with solder) > and placed onto the board. Lacing cord would then be usig to tie the wires > together (I can still do a half decent running stitch, but can not find any > waxed lacing cord....). You still can buy it, as the telco people use it. The Ace hardware at the ground floor of 60 Hudson St. (New York telco and networking folk should know this place) actually had rolls on the shelves. I can still stitch up things with the cord, but I am not fast like the old timers. Way back at USR, we were given a contract to built the first AT&T Worldnet dialup cabinets. Being Bell, lacing was specified (along with *every* last detail, unlike the "pound to fit, paint to match" engineering that was AOL Big Dial dialup). I was the only one at USR that could lace up harnesses, so I spent something like six hours on one cabinet. Out of 240. People were not happy. We convinced AT&T to just use tiewraps. The best lacing job I have ever seen is on World War 2 submarine power panels. Essentially, it is a standard stitch, but there is NO space between the loops. You can not see the wires thru the lacing. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From esharpe at uswest.net Fri Feb 20 00:13:24 2004 From: esharpe at uswest.net (ed sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:35 2005 Subject: OT-ish... what to do with > 400 relays... References: Message-ID: <007101c3f778$a61a8d40$c2956d44@SONYDIGITALED> "but there is NO space between the loops. You can not see the wires thru the lacing." nice stuff... but oh so time consuming..... ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Donzelli" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Cc: "'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'" Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 10:49 PM Subject: RE: OT-ish... what to do with > 400 relays... > > The wires would them be cut to length, stripped, tinned (coated with solder) > > and placed onto the board. Lacing cord would then be usig to tie the wires > > together (I can still do a half decent running stitch, but can not find any > > waxed lacing cord....). > > You still can buy it, as the telco people use it. The Ace hardware at the > ground floor of 60 Hudson St. (New York telco and networking folk should > know this place) actually had rolls on the shelves. > > I can still stitch up things with the cord, but I am not fast like the > old timers. Way back at USR, we were given a contract to built the first > AT&T Worldnet dialup cabinets. Being Bell, lacing was specified (along > with *every* last detail, unlike the "pound to fit, paint to match" > engineering that was AOL Big Dial dialup). I was the only one at USR that > could lace up harnesses, so I spent something like six hours on one > cabinet. Out of 240. People were not happy. We convinced AT&T to just use > tiewraps. > > The best lacing job I have ever seen is on World War 2 submarine power > panels. Essentially, it is a standard stitch, but there is NO space > between the loops. You can not see the wires thru the lacing. > > William Donzelli > aw288@osfn.org > > From GOOI at oce.nl Fri Feb 20 01:13:08 2004 From: GOOI at oce.nl (Gooijen H) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:35 2005 Subject: OT? What 8bit Microprocessors still available new? Message-ID: <1A9EACFF5B9EB9489F00104C00ECF641027B0F29@hqvenlomail.oce.nl> Interesting thread ... nice reading. For the design of a small 6802-based system check: www.pdp-11.nl/homebrew/startframe.html and click the links "interface hardware" and "interface monitor". The project has had little time lately, but I am working on the mechanical part: a new sleakier front. Anyway, it has the CPU (...), 8 kbytes RAM, 8 kbytes EPROM, and is very easy to expand with as much I/O you want. Hey, if you are going to connect a "PDP-11" console to it (relax chaps, a home-made one, the real consoles stay on my machines!) you need *lots* of I and O. All fits on a single board. I still can write a program in hex opcodes for the 6802. Risk of starting a flame: Motorola is way nicer to work with in assembly language than all the Intel crap. Words hi- and lo-byte swapped ... go figure ! gd lck with your hardware, - Henk, PA8PDP > -----Original Message----- > From: Ron Hudson [mailto:ron.hudson@sbcglobal.net] > Sent: donderdag 19 februari 2004 20:57 > To: Classic Computers > Subject: OT? What 8bit Microprocessors still available new? > > > 'lo everyone... > > Who would be interested in a *new* classic computer.. > > it would have room for almost 640K of memory, the remainder > being taken by a simple ROM monitor (like the apple I > monitor, or the Polymorphic monitor) > > What Microprocessors are still being sold new? 6502? Z80? > > It would consist of a small board with RAM, ROM, CPU, and a > serial port. > > Best use would be to connect it to a PC running a terminal > emulator for IO and Mass storage. > > Is anyone interested? > > Perhaps I should just go find a simulator? :^p > > ron. From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Fri Feb 20 03:16:05 2004 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:35 2005 Subject: OT? What 8bit Microprocessors still available new? In-Reply-To: <403560A3.6020409@jcwren.com> References: <403560A3.6020409@jcwren.com> Message-ID: <20040220101605.5806be49.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Thu, 19 Feb 2004 20:19:31 -0500 "J.C. Wren" wrote: > The NSC32000 would be an uncommon homebrew system. Software may > be > hard to find, including emulators. I don't see a lot of 32K parts > going by on eBay, so you might be hard pressed to come up with what > you need one. Same for the Zilog Z8000. It would be really nice to build a new run of NS32532 based PC532 boards. AFAIK there where less then 200 build. The complete documentation (schematic, layout, ...) is available. OS option is NetBSD. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From lists at microvax.org Fri Feb 20 03:57:58 2004 From: lists at microvax.org (meltie) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:35 2005 Subject: VAX console and crossover cable problem In-Reply-To: <20040220045549.GF13924@rhiannon.rddavis.org> References: <20040220045549.GF13924@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <200402200957.59120.lists@microvax.org> On Friday 20 February 2004 04:55, R. D. Davis wrote: > MMJ DB25 > > DTR 1 ---- 6, 8 DSR, DCD > TX+ 2 ---- 3 RD > TX- 3 ---- 7 Sig Gnd > RX- 4 ---- 7 > RX+ 5 ---- 2 TD > DSR 6 ---- 20 DTR > > ----------- MMJ pinout I'm using, > 1 2 3 4 5 6 - viewed from > -------+ + console > +--+ > I've always wired mine up without any of the DTR/DSR etc pins - at 9600bps rhe rate's low enough to not produce that many errors anyway. alex/melt From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Fri Feb 20 03:28:02 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:35 2005 Subject: OT? What 8bit Microprocessors still available new? In-Reply-To: References: <40352364.7010900@gifford.co.uk> Message-ID: <20040220092802.GA32333@bos7.spole.gov> On Thu, Feb 19, 2004 at 01:32:48PM -0800, Patrick Rigney wrote: > Hmmm... check out Daryl Rictor's SBC-2 project, a 65C02-based machine with > 32K RAM and 32K EEPROM, two VIAs, and 6551 serial, etc. I own/built three. > :-) http://65c02.tripod.com/sbc25/info.html --Patrick I own two as well, but I haven't built them... I have 1802 and 6120 projects further up on the priority list. It does look fun to build, though, and the 6502 is one of my favorite uPs. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 20-Feb-2004 09:20 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -46.2 F (-43.5 C) Windchill -95 F (-70.59 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 13.3 kts Grid 066 Barometer 691.7 mb (10187. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Fri Feb 20 03:32:09 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:35 2005 Subject: OT? What 8bit Microprocessors still available new? In-Reply-To: <1077228853.1527.121.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <1077228853.1527.121.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <20040220093209.GB32333@bos7.spole.gov> On Thu, Feb 19, 2004 at 10:14:14PM +0000, Jules Richardson wrote: > On Thu, 2004-02-19 at 21:54, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > Or just sacrifice an old Apple //e (common as dirt) or C64 (common as > > lint) and use the chips inside. I guess my house has more lint than dirt. :-) > Well old process control equipment, especially telecoms hardware, tends > to be a good source of Z80 family chips, and typically there's no merit > in preserving the boards as they are. > > Better than wrecking a self-contained complete computer, even if it is a > common one! I aquired a double-fistful of 6502s from a pile of stat-mux boards I carted off from a local fellow list-member (and have had good luck extracting a few 74HC parts for my SBC6120s). There are even a few items like burglar alarms that you can find an 1802 in occasionally (if they are from the right era). So... for Z-80, 6502 and the odd 1802... check those clunker boxes... you might find something interesting in one of them -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 20-Feb-2004 09:20 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -46.2 F (-43.5 C) Windchill -95 F (-70.59 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 13.3 kts Grid 066 Barometer 691.7 mb (10187. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Fri Feb 20 04:42:57 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:35 2005 Subject: OT? What 8bit Microprocessors still available new? In-Reply-To: <05983460-6330-11D8-8EA6-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> References: <05983460-6330-11D8-8EA6-000393C5A0B6@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <20040220104257.GC32333@bos7.spole.gov> On Thu, Feb 19, 2004 at 03:04:51PM -0800, Ron Hudson wrote: > Please! only sacrifice non working machines, Dinosaurs may have been as > common as dirt once, but you don't see many of them now. I understand > that at least for C64 the main failure point is the SID chip... A dead SID chip does not equal a dead machine (it's still useful for lots of software, even some games like Zork). The thing that I've see die (besides the occasional DRAM) is the 82S100 PLA. It runs hot and it's at the hub of the machine. When it dies, you get a black screen. I got a dead SX64 once for $20 - bad PLA. It took longer to crack the case than to diagnose the problem. What also dies on _those_ is the keyboard (low-quality membrane). I haven't done it yet, but I'm tempted to turn a C-64 case and KB into an external KB for an SX64, so I have a spare. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 20-Feb-2004 10:31 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -47 F (-43.9 C) Windchill -95.5 F (-70.8 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 13.1 kts Grid 054 Barometer 692.1 mb (10171. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From r.mueller at fz-juelich.de Thu Feb 19 06:17:06 2004 From: r.mueller at fz-juelich.de (R. Mueller) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:35 2005 Subject: Bigger hard disk on Toshiba 4010CDT Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.0.20040219130442.061713d0@iffpcsrv.iff.kfa-juelich.de> Does anybody know how to get a Toshiba 4010CDT to accept a larger hard disk. It comes with 4 GB but when I want to work with three operating systems (MSDOS; modern Windows and LINUX) this will be a problem if I also want to include applications! Conversely, I am satisfied with the computer otherwise, although it is somewhat older by now, and would like to upgrade instead of retiring it or maintaining two Laptops in order to have space for the bigger operating systems. I did look at Toshiba's site but found nothing except some information that such support is NOT provided by them! They suggest an alternative company but this company does not show any sign of supporting my model. I also would be happier to find a way to alter the BIOS and buy a HDD locally, though I did find one company offering hard disks which they suggest will work with the 4010CDT, while giving no clue that they in some way deal with the BIOS problem. (In any case, it would mean importing the HDD, with a bunch of associated problems, especially if something goes wrong. I have my fill of that trouble!) Thanks to anyone able to help. Bob From geoffr at zipcon.net Fri Feb 20 06:48:59 2004 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:35 2005 Subject: HP ScanJet ADF In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.2.20040220044805.055c0d90@mail.zipcon.net> my wife uses one for scanning catalogs. it works great. At 08:35 PM 2/19/2004, you wrote: >I just got an HP ScanJet ADF. > >Does anyone have an opinion on this either way? Worth keeping or not up >to the strict scanning standards of a Vintage Computer Collector? > >-- > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > >[ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] >[ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Fri Feb 20 07:17:23 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:35 2005 Subject: "This old SGI" page - anyone have a copy? Message-ID: <1077282240.3143.44.camel@weka.localdomain> Damn site was working a couple of months ago, now Yahoo/Geocities claim it doesn't exist, and Google seem to have done a spendid job of only caching half the page, which is nice of them. Unfortunately the bit I want is to do with the 4D-25 machines which is on the missing part :-( Don't suppose any SGI collectors have their own archived copy of the page do they? (It was just the one page to the site IIRC; it was just huge) Original page was: http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Pines/2258/4dfaq.html I won't post the Google cache link as it's huge. Does Google's web cache - upon finding a big page - just cache half of it? Surprised they don't either cache a whole page or nothing at all to be honest. Half a page isn't much use to anyone :) I *finally* got around to picking up that SGI which I posted on the list about just before Christmas. I need to wire up an adapter cable for a later SGI keyboard (I can borrow said keyboard from the museum then just to make sure the system I got works), plus it'd be nice to know what graphics options I have. There are a couple of daughter boards on the graphics board so hopefully it's one of the better-specced systems... cheers Jules From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Fri Feb 20 07:21:15 2004 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:35 2005 Subject: "This old SGI" page - anyone have a copy? In-Reply-To: <1077282240.3143.44.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <1077282240.3143.44.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <20040220132115.GB31795@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Fri, Feb 20, 2004 at 01:04:01PM +0000, Jules Richardson wrote: > Original page was: > http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Pines/2258/4dfaq.html http://www.archive.org/ is your friend. http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Pines/2258/4dfaq.html http://web.archive.org/web/20030207050623/http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Pines/2258/4dfaq.html -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From lists at microvax.org Fri Feb 20 07:16:40 2004 From: lists at microvax.org (meltie) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:35 2005 Subject: "This old SGI" page - anyone have a copy? In-Reply-To: <1077282240.3143.44.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <1077282240.3143.44.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <200402201316.40837.lists@microvax.org> On Friday 20 February 2004 13:04, Jules Richardson wrote: > Original page was: > http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Pines/2258/4dfaq.html > > I won't post the Google cache link as it's huge. Does Google's web cache > - upon finding a big page - just cache half of it? Surprised they don't > either cache a whole page or nothing at all to be honest. Half a page > isn't much use to anyone :) http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/ Pines/2258/4dfaq.html Which version of the page do you want? :) alex/melt From geoffr at zipcon.net Fri Feb 20 07:28:27 2004 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:35 2005 Subject: "This old SGI" page - anyone have a copy? In-Reply-To: <1077282240.3143.44.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <1077282240.3143.44.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.2.20040220052819.04d23ec0@mail.zipcon.net> At 05:04 AM 2/20/2004, you wrote: >Damn site was working a couple of months ago, now Yahoo/Geocities claim >it doesn't exist, and Google seem to have done a spendid job of only >caching half the page, which is nice of them. > >Unfortunately the bit I want is to do with the 4D-25 machines which is >on the missing part :-( http://web.archive.org/web/20030207050623/http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Pines/2258/4dfaq.html From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Fri Feb 20 07:19:46 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:35 2005 Subject: VAX console and crossover cable problem In-Reply-To: <20040220045549.GF13924@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of R. D. Davis > Sent: 20 February 2004 04:56 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: VAX console and crossover cable problem > > MMJ DB25 > > DTR 1 ---- 6, 8 DSR, DCD > TX+ 2 ---- 3 RD > TX- 3 ---- 7 Sig Gnd > RX- 4 ---- 7 > RX+ 5 ---- 2 TD > DSR 6 ---- 20 DTR > > ----------- MMJ pinout I'm using, > 1 2 3 4 5 6 - viewed from > -------+ + console > +--+ > > > Any ideas as to what I'm doing wrong? Didn't use my breakout > box yet, since I need to get new batteries for it. My wiring bible built up over many moons has a passive MMJ-DB25 pinout as the reverse of that based on your diagram above: 1 - 20 DTR 2 - 2 Tx 3 - 7 TxG 4 - 7 RxG 5 - 3 Rx 6 - 6 DSR That's what I'd use to make up a connector cable. Cheers -- Adrian/Witchy Owner & Webmaster, Binary Dinosaurs www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Fri Feb 20 07:30:17 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:35 2005 Subject: DECmate III diskettes required north of Salem, MA Message-ID: Hi folks, Had a mail from 'Steve' who's looking to buy some blank or reusable RX50 disks for a colleague of his who still writes using his DECmate III. I was going to send some of mine but when I found that he's north of Boston MA I figured one of you guys would be in a better position to help him. His email is steve03054@yahoo.com so if you could reply direct to him that'd be smart. Cheers, -- Adrian/Witchy Owner & Webmaster, Binary Dinosaurs www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From waltje at pdp11.nl Fri Feb 20 07:40:04 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:35 2005 Subject: VAX console and crossover cable problem In-Reply-To: <20040220045549.GF13924@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: On 19 Feb 2004, R. D. Davis wrote: > The LED indicator on the VAX counted dow to three, waiting to boot, so > that seems to be ok. > > Here's how I wired the crossover cable (typical crossover cable wiring, > should work, right?): Yes, minus thye handshaking: DEC console ports never use handshaking, so are basically 3-wire connections. Tell the Sun to *not* use or expect handshaking, I bet it currently is (.. waiting for a valid GO signal, that being DCD, DSR or CTS, depending on its config.) --f From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Feb 20 07:29:32 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:35 2005 Subject: HP ScanJet ADF In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040220082932.00846d10@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Hello Sellam, A few weeks ago I found a HP ScanJet 4 with the ADF. I connected it to my computer and Windows 98 detected it and installed MS drivers for it and it worked fine (but I didn't try the ADF part). I then went to HP's site and downloaded their drivers for the scanner and ADF and installed them. After that I couldn't get it to scan worth a damm! Then found that I couldn't remove the HP drivers and reinstall the MS one so I eventually gave up and took it off the system. Since then I've found and installed a Panasonic HiSpeed scanner (160 ppm!!). I LOVE the drivers for this one. The only problem is that it has a sheet feeder and no flat bed so you HAVE to run the pages through it. That's a problem with bound books and odd shaped objects. (But I still have my old Umax scanner. I just have to find room to set up both of them at the same time. The Panasonic is HUGE.) Oh, and the Panasonic is only B/W and GreyScale. I don't know what the problem was with the HP scanner drivers but the scans came out very ragged looking and I could only save the files in a TIFF format. After I gave up on the HP, I set up a test computer with W 98 and PhotoShop 6 to test the Panasonic printer. I suppose I should connect the HP to it and experiment with it and see if I can get it to work properly. Joe At 08:35 PM 2/19/04 -0800, you wrote: > >I just got an HP ScanJet ADF. > >Does anyone have an opinion on this either way? Worth keeping or not up >to the strict scanning standards of a Vintage Computer Collector? > >-- > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > >[ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] >[ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Feb 20 07:52:52 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:35 2005 Subject: lacing cord RE: OT-ish... what to do with > 400 relays... References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040220085252.0086f2f0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 11:37 PM 2/19/04 -0500, you wrote: >I will have to look for them, they are deep in storage will other items from >my teenage years. > >A little bit of the history though.... > >My father was a wireman/engineering prototype builder. This is back in the >days when most systems had significant harnesses thay were hand made (with >lacing cord, no such thing a tie wraps). The harnesses were build (typically >my placing a full size blueprint on a piece of plywood, placing "nails" at >all of the junction points and curves, and springs at the end of each leg. >The wires would them be cut to length, stripped, tinned (coated with solder) >and placed onto the board. Lacing cord would then be usig to tie the wires >together (I can still do a half decent running stitch, but can not find any >waxed lacing cord....). That brings back memories. I got my first job in electronics when I was 16 or so. I worked for a company that put in central office systems for telephone companies. Since I was young, energetic and skinny I had the job of running the cables on the overhead wireracks that ran around the offices above the equipment. Once I ran the cables I had to tie them down with lacing cord. Yeah, the round cord not the flat tape. You had to pull it super tight and the stuff would really cut into your hands. We tied it about every foot. We had to tie around the wire bundle and then put loops between every horizontal layer and loops between every vertical columme. A typical wire bundle was perhaps 8 layers deep and 14 cables wide (we used 54 pair cable). Runs would be 80 to 150 feet long so I did a LOT of tying. It would take over a week just to run the cables and tie them down. I'd frequently use over a spool of cord on one job. After that I had to terminate all the cables on wire blocks but that's another story. I think I still have one roll of lacing cord but other than that I haven't seen any more of it for YEARS. However when I worked for MMC we used lacing tape. This stuff is wide and flat and doesn't cut into your hands the way that the round cord did. It also doesn't have the heavy wax coating that the round cord did. I see the flat tape occasionally around the hamfests and surplus stores. Let me know if you want a roll. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Feb 20 08:25:19 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:35 2005 Subject: more lacing cable! RE: OT-ish... what to do with > 400 relays... In-Reply-To: References: < Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040220092519.00846100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 12:49 AM 2/20/04 -0500, you wrote: >> The wires would them be cut to length, stripped, tinned (coated with solder) >> and placed onto the board. Lacing cord would then be usig to tie the wires >> together (I can still do a half decent running stitch, but can not find any >> waxed lacing cord....). > >You still can buy it, as the telco people use it. The Ace hardware at the >ground floor of 60 Hudson St. (New York telco and networking folk should >know this place) actually had rolls on the shelves. > >I can still stitch up things with the cord, but I am not fast like the >old timers. Way back at USR, we were given a contract to built the first >AT&T Worldnet dialup cabinets. Being Bell, lacing was specified (along >with *every* last detail, unlike the "pound to fit, paint to match" >engineering that was AOL Big Dial dialup). I was the only one at USR that >could lace up harnesses, so I spent something like six hours on one >cabinet. Out of 240. People were not happy. We convinced AT&T to just use >tiewraps. At one of the jobs that I had at MMC we had a bunch of Macs, PCs, HPs running Unix and a mix of other computers all in one office. We had them all networked together with a hodge-podge networks to transfer data from one to another and there were cables dangling all over the place. The office was made up of the movable partitions and the cables were just strung along the walls and over the partitions. They were a real mess, people were always tripping over them and they'd fall off the partitions and knock things over. I finally got tired of it so I went to work EARLY one morning and brought a roll of lacing tape with me. I straightened out the cables and run them along the top of the partition walls. I then pulled the snap-on covers off the top of the partitions and laced the cables to the covers and then snapped them back in place. It really cleaned up the place. The rest of the crew was quite impressed when they came to work and found all the cables up out of the way and neatly tied down. I don't think they'd ever seen cables TIED down before. > >The best lacing job I have ever seen is on World War 2 submarine power >panels. Essentially, it is a standard stitch, but there is NO space >between the loops. You can not see the wires thru the lacing. Must have been a union job! Everyone at the company that I worked for prided themselves on the neat cabling jobs that they did. All the cable turns were perfect and there was never any slack anywhere in their cable runs. Then they got a job wiring up instrumentation in one of the block houses at Kennedy Space Center. They spent a couple of weeks on the job and it was THE best and neatest job that they'd ever done. Then the KSC inspectors came in to check it. They looked at the cabling and commented about how neat it was and then told them to tear it out and start over! They'd forgotten to tell them that the block house (or that room at least) was on springs and could move up to a foot and half. They had to tear out all the cable and redo it and leave 3 foot loops of slack cable to allow for movement of the block house. C'est La Vie! Joe > >William Donzelli >aw288@osfn.org > From jrice54 at charter.net Fri Feb 20 09:14:58 2004 From: jrice54 at charter.net (James Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:35 2005 Subject: "This old SGI" page - anyone have a copy? In-Reply-To: <6.0.3.0.2.20040220052819.04d23ec0@mail.zipcon.net> References: <1077282240.3143.44.camel@weka.localdomain> <6.0.3.0.2.20040220052819.04d23ec0@mail.zipcon.net> Message-ID: <40362472.3070604@charter.net> Geoff Reed wrote: > At 05:04 AM 2/20/2004, you wrote: > >> Damn site was working a couple of months ago, now Yahoo/Geocities claim >> it doesn't exist, and Google seem to have done a spendid job of only >> caching half the page, which is nice of them. >> >> Unfortunately the bit I want is to do with the 4D-25 machines which is >> on the missing part :-( > > > http://web.archive.org/web/20030207050623/http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Pines/2258/4dfaq.html > > Sgi has been methodically shutting down all of the hobbyist websites that make any reference to Sgi or use any form of any Sgi logos. You would think that a corporation that has as many problems as Sgi would have better things to do. James From brianmahoney at look.ca Fri Feb 20 09:13:09 2004 From: brianmahoney at look.ca (Brian Mahoney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:35 2005 Subject: OS/2 Warp question - MPTS? References: <5.1.1.6.0.20040219020923.036fbfb8@pop.freeserve.net><000d01c3f692$19d5b580$0200a8c0@look.ca><005f01c3f6e6$3715c370$6501a8c0@barton><001701c3f6ff$4e8a84a0$0200a8c0@look.ca> <007301c3f76a$47df81d0$6501a8c0@barton> Message-ID: <000b01c3f7c4$1ea534e0$0200a8c0@look.ca> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Girnius" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 11:30 PM Subject: Re: OS/2 Warp question - MPTS? > Laptops were never well supported for OS/2 even the IBM thinkpads, if you > can get a 3com nic they still have OS2 drivers on their downloads. PCMCIA > was a fledgeling technology when warp 3.0 was out, if you really wanna play > with it, try it on a desktop with an old 3com nic and it will work great, > laptop..hmm not sure it would work easily even if you found the right > driver,.... unless of course it was a thinkpad with a 3com pcmcia card. > > If you really get bored, got to IBM's knowledge base in the thinkpad section > and search for OS2, it's amazing that a company that makes both products > makes them work so bad together. > > > Hope this helps, and if nothing else, you have fun, that is why we do all > this crazy stuff :) > Yup, that's why we do it. This all started when I tried to find a DOS browser for a bit of speed but none of them could ID my video card on my donated laptop. OS/2 always interested me, and I think I will load it on one of my IBM desktops just to get it online. Does anyone remember the demo OS/2 CD that IBM sent out? It had a lot of video on it plus some version of OS/2. The thing I remember most is that all the videos looked very similar to a cheap porno flick. The main character, the guy, had this very dramatic Van Dyke beard/moustache and the woman whose house he was visiting to set up OS/2 was, to say the least, a fine figure of a woman. I remember thinking that there was no way this product would ever work if this was the kind of promotion they were giving it. I should put one of the segments up on my site for fun. Thanks again everyone. BM From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Fri Feb 20 10:00:34 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:35 2005 Subject: "This old SGI" page - anyone have a copy? In-Reply-To: <6.0.3.0.2.20040220052819.04d23ec0@mail.zipcon.net> References: <1077282240.3143.44.camel@weka.localdomain> <6.0.3.0.2.20040220052819.04d23ec0@mail.zipcon.net> Message-ID: <1077292032.3144.172.camel@weka.localdomain> cheers all - that did the trick :-) Looks like it's the GR1.5 graphics board, but with the 24-bit colour and Z-buffer hardware options, so it should be reasonably quick for graphics operations given the age. Will put a keyboard adapter together later and then try it with the keyboard on the more modern machine at the museum tomorrow. cheers Jules From kth at srv.net Fri Feb 20 08:56:15 2004 From: kth at srv.net (Kevin Handy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:35 2005 Subject: VAX console and crossover cable problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4036200F.4070004@srv.net> Witchy wrote: >>-----Original Message----- >>From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org >>[mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of R. D. Davis >>Sent: 20 February 2004 04:56 >>To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >>Subject: VAX console and crossover cable problem >> >> MMJ DB25 >> >> DTR 1 ---- 6, 8 DSR, DCD >> TX+ 2 ---- 3 RD >> TX- 3 ---- 7 Sig Gnd >> RX- 4 ---- 7 >> RX+ 5 ---- 2 TD >> DSR 6 ---- 20 DTR >> >> ----------- MMJ pinout I'm using, >> 1 2 3 4 5 6 - viewed from >> -------+ + console >> +--+ >> >> >>Any ideas as to what I'm doing wrong? Didn't use my breakout >>box yet, since I need to get new batteries for it. >> >> > > > Get one of those cheap RS-232 status monitors (just has LED's on several intresting signals) that are powered by the interface. They make diagnosing most problems easy, and don't require you to carry batteries around. Put it in line with the cable, and see if both Tx and Rx light up. If both light up, your cable is probably Ok, or you really really botched the cable. If only one lights up, try unplugging each side and see if both sides are lighting up the same wire (Tx or Rx). If they are, you need a "Null Modem" (or just swap Tx with Rx and DSR with DTR). Of only one side is lighting it up, then you have a problem external to the cable. >My wiring bible built up over many moons has a passive MMJ-DB25 pinout as >the reverse of that based on your diagram above: > >1 - 20 DTR >2 - 2 Tx >3 - 7 TxG >4 - 7 RxG >5 - 3 Rx >6 - 6 DSR > >That's what I'd use to make up a connector cable. > >Cheers > > Note: I've seen many MMJ cables/bulkheads ignore 1 and 6. Since the VAX usually uses XON/XOFF, this isn't usually a problem. It's usually happy having just 3 wires: Tx, Rx, and gnd (TxG+RxG). From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Fri Feb 20 09:47:59 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:35 2005 Subject: "This old SGI" page - anyone have a copy? References: <1077282240.3143.44.camel@weka.localdomain> <6.0.3.0.2.20040220052819.04d23ec0@mail.zipcon.net> <40362472.3070604@charter.net> Message-ID: <40362C2F.50605@jetnet.ab.ca> James Rice wrote: > Sgi has been methodically shutting down all of the hobbyist websites > that make any reference to Sgi or use any form of any Sgi logos. You > would think that a corporation that has as many problems as Sgi would > have better things to do. Well can we get people to burn CD-roms of web sites with old computer information least it be forgottion or distroyed as web sites change and Server's crash? From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Fri Feb 20 10:10:54 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:35 2005 Subject: Perq 2T1 display fault In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1077292616.3143.184.camel@weka.localdomain> On Fri, 2004-02-20 at 03:28, Tony Duell wrote: > I would still check it with a 'scope. I'll see if I can find the manual > in the next day or so... No rush - I'll get a scope on it tomorrow and then after that I probably won't even be back at the museum for a week. There's about a billion other things that badly need doing there too, so not like I'm stuck for things to sort out :) > Just to confirm, we're talking about a PERQ 1 here -- it's confusing to > me wether this is a PERQ 1 (verically-mounted SA4000 hard disk at the > left side, monito connects on a single DC37 connector) or a PERQ 2T1 It's a 2T1, vertical drive mounted at the back. (there is a PERQ 1 also with a video fault which I think I mentioned; that's where the confusion probably arises. That one has a totally mangled display, squashed horizontally and vertically, very non-linear, and no recognisable character output on it at all) cheers Jules From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Fri Feb 20 10:16:28 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:35 2005 Subject: OT-ish... what to do with > 400 relays... In-Reply-To: References: <1077231917.1527.133.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <1077292985.3143.186.camel@weka.localdomain> thanks all - looks like I at least have enough relays to work with and do something, plus there are a couple of possible projects out there :) cheers Jules From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Fri Feb 20 10:15:58 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:35 2005 Subject: VAX console and crossover cable problem In-Reply-To: <4036200F.4070004@srv.net> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Kevin Handy > Sent: 20 February 2004 14:56 > To: General@deimos.easily.co.uk; > Discussion@deimos.easily.co.uk:On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: VAX console and crossover cable problem > > Note: I've seen many MMJ cables/bulkheads ignore 1 and 6. > Since the VAX usually uses XON/XOFF, this isn't usually a > problem. It's usually happy having just 3 wires: Tx, Rx, and > gnd (TxG+RxG). True, I'm just used to working with BC16E cable. Later on I even wired up all 6 lines when using UTP 'cos most of the time I didn't know what the end use of the cable was going to be. Cheers w From uban at ubanproductions.com Fri Feb 20 10:46:16 2004 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:35 2005 Subject: Sigma floppy controller ? Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20040220104548.03c95850@mail.ubanproductions.com> I have a Sigma floppy disk controller which I believe to be for Qbus. The assembly number is 400255 rev B and S/N is 4331. It is a dual board and has a pair of 2901 bit slices and an assortment of bipolar PROMs. From the field guide, I found this entry: SDC-RXV31 Q Sigma floppy disk controller. Emulates RXV21/RX02. (Supports Mitsubishi M2696-63) I assume this is the one. Does anyone have a manual for this controller (copy or scan)? --tnx --tom From lbickley at bickleywest.com Fri Feb 20 11:07:46 2004 From: lbickley at bickleywest.com (Lyle Bickley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:36 2005 Subject: RX50 Diskettes... Message-ID: <200402200907.46343.lbickley@bickleywest.com> Steve, I use a program call PUTR (http://www.dbit.com/pub/putr/) which can create RX50 formatted diskettes from any good DSDD 5.25" diskette. These are often available at junk stores, scrap dealers, thrift shops, etc. Lyle -- Lyle Bickley Bickley Consulting West Inc. http://bickleywest.com "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero" From CordaAJ at NSWC.NAVY.MIL Fri Feb 20 15:42:47 2004 From: CordaAJ at NSWC.NAVY.MIL (Corda Albert J DLVA) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:36 2005 Subject: "This old SGI" page - anyone have a copy? Message-ID: <7B4C28C84831D211BFA200805F9F345605A16E0F@nswcdlvaex04.nswc.navy.mil> Since this is actually my page, I should probably see what's going on... admittedly, I've kind of let it lapse for the past couple of years, (things got really busy for a while...). When I first put this together, it was the only reference out there of this type for SGI stuff (which is why I did it.) Now, there seem to be a whole host of SGI specific sites, so I never really saw the need to update it... the new sites seemed to be handling the newer systems quite adequately. The last time I logged into Geocities, it was an independent company... I just tried it a few minutes ago and I don't seem to have an account anymore... Also, it seems that Geocities is now owned by by Yahoo... Also, I haven't had anyone contact me about a problem with the hacked-up SGI logo I used, but it could be because the email link on that page seems to have gone the way of my geocities acount... vanished. In the past, I have received requests (freely granted) requests by people to mirror the site, so there should be some copies available... I need to see if I can dig up my original, or download one of the mirrors so that I can see about restoring and/or rehosting it somewhere. I'll see if I can figure out what is going on, and let everyone know... -al- -cordaaj@nswc.navy.mil -----Original Message----- From: ben franchuk [mailto:bfranchuk@jetnet.ab.ca] Sent: Friday, February 20, 2004 10:48 AM To: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: "This old SGI" page - anyone have a copy? James Rice wrote: > Sgi has been methodically shutting down all of the hobbyist websites > that make any reference to Sgi or use any form of any Sgi logos. You > would think that a corporation that has as many problems as Sgi would > have better things to do. Well can we get people to burn CD-roms of web sites with old computer information least it be forgottion or distroyed as web sites change and Server's crash? From allain at panix.com Fri Feb 20 16:19:29 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:36 2005 Subject: Aargh...It never ends.. References: Message-ID: <019101c3f7ff$9c32c540$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > Ducking and running as I post this.... > http://techrepublic.com.com/5208-6230-0.html?forumID=10&threadID=147374&mess ageID=1579357 Problem, agreed. Wasn't it concluded that it took something like 50mA to kill? Soooo... If we convert our houses to 20KV, we can get From allain at panix.com Fri Feb 20 16:27:26 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:36 2005 Subject: Aargh...It never ends.. Message-ID: <019b01c3f800$b8802480$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > Ducking and running as I post this.... > http://techrepublic.com.com/5208-6230-0.html?forumID=10&threadID=147374&mess ageID=1579357 Problem, agreed. Wasn't it concluded that it took something like 50mA to kill? Soooo... If we convert our houses and appliances to 30KV/50mA, we can get them to run, without danger of _death_. I guess the house would then approximate a plasma dome... And it wouldn't it be difficult to hold a cup of coffee? John A. prior message misfired, note, Not by stray voltage. From jrice54 at charter.net Fri Feb 20 17:34:50 2004 From: jrice54 at charter.net (James Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:36 2005 Subject: "This old SGI" page - anyone have a copy? In-Reply-To: <7B4C28C84831D211BFA200805F9F345605A16E0F@nswcdlvaex04.nswc.navy.mil> References: <7B4C28C84831D211BFA200805F9F345605A16E0F@nswcdlvaex04.nswc.navy.mil> Message-ID: <4036999A.1060309@charter.net> I'm glad to know the "paralegal from hell" hasn't contacted you yet. "Never Beige" and "The Sgi Addict" bit the dust due to legal threats from SGI. I have enjoyed your site and hope to see it online once again. James Corda Albert J DLVA wrote: >Since this is actually my page, I should probably see what's going on... >admittedly, I've kind of let it lapse for the past couple of years, >(things got really busy for a while...). When I first put this together, >it was the only reference out there of this type for SGI stuff (which is why >I did it.) Now, there seem to be a whole host of SGI specific sites, so >I never really saw the need to update it... the new sites seemed to be >handling the newer systems quite adequately. > >The last time I logged into Geocities, it was an independent company... >I just tried it a few minutes ago and I don't seem to have an >account anymore... Also, it seems that Geocities is now owned by >by Yahoo... > >Also, I haven't had anyone contact me about a problem with the hacked-up >SGI logo I used, but it could be because the email link on that page seems >to have gone the way of my geocities acount... vanished. > >In the past, I have received requests (freely granted) requests by people >to mirror the site, so there should be some copies available... I need to >see if I can dig up my original, or download one of the mirrors so that I >can see about restoring and/or rehosting it somewhere. > >I'll see if I can figure out what is going on, and let everyone know... > > >-al- >-cordaaj@nswc.navy.mil > > > >>Sgi has been methodically shutting down all of the hobbyist websites >>that make any reference to Sgi or use any form of any Sgi logos. You >>would think that a corporation that has as many problems as Sgi would >>have better things to do. >> >> > > > > > > http://webpages.charter.net/jrice54/classiccomp2.html From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Feb 20 17:07:55 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:36 2005 Subject: VAX console and crossover cable problem In-Reply-To: <4036200F.4070004@srv.net> from "Kevin Handy" at Feb 20, 4 07:56:15 am Message-ID: > Get one of those cheap RS-232 status monitors (just has LED's > on several intresting signals) that are powered by the interface. > They make diagnosing most problems easy, and don't require > you to carry batteries around. I'll second that recomendation! I have some pretty nice RS232 test gear here, including a good breakout box, an 'active' breakout box with things like the ability to send test messages, measure bit-times, etc (there's an 8085 in there...), a combined breakout box, current loop converter, parallel converter, EPROM blower (!), printer, etc, a Tekky prtoocol analuser, and so on... But I use the little box with 7 bicolour LEDs more than any of those. It's convenient, it doesn't need me to find a mains socket or batteries, it doesn't need settign up. I just plug it in and it tells me which, if any, of the handshake lines are active, which pin the darn thing is sending data on, and so on. The other things I use a lot are my pair of home-made null-modem adapters. One passes all handshakes (swaps RTS with CTS, DTR with DSR strapped to DCD). The other loops all handshakes back at each side (RTS looped to CTS, DTR looped to DSR and DCD). The second one will normally give a device the signals it espects to start sending data. Then I can sort out any overrun problems later. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Feb 20 17:18:17 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:36 2005 Subject: Perq 2T1 display fault In-Reply-To: <1077292616.3143.184.camel@weka.localdomain> from "Jules Richardson" at Feb 20, 4 03:56:56 pm Message-ID: > > Just to confirm, we're talking about a PERQ 1 here -- it's confusing to > > me wether this is a PERQ 1 (verically-mounted SA4000 hard disk at the > > left side, monito connects on a single DC37 connector) or a PERQ 2T1 > > It's a 2T1, vertical drive mounted at the back. Oh, right... Can you please re-describe the 2 faults and the machines they occur on -- I was under the impression I was considering a PERQ 1 (VMI monitor) with a small picture all round... OK, back to the T1. I think it's the machine I worked on some years ago (don't worry, everything is 'stock', apart from the fact you may find the odd IC in a socket if I replaced it). The only non-standard feature is the monitor power cable -- I couldn't find the original lead, and the connector at the monitor end is something odd. So I removed that connector, fitted a length of cable with a 3 pin DIN plug (to fit the PERQ's 55V output socket) and wired the other end inside the monitor, using a strain-relief bush in the holw where the power connector used to be. That shouldn't cause many problems. If it is that machine, then it has the standard KME monitor, and that's a very conventional design. Start by looking at the large heatssink at the back. This contains a voltage regulator circuit to bring the 55V down to 48V. Check that output. If it's low, then the monitor board might be drawing too much current. Do not tweak the preset on the heatsink's PCB, though! The circuit, as I said, is fairly conventional. The only problem is the 4 hybrid circuits. One, on the CRT base, is the video amplifier, and was replaced with standard components in later versions of the monitor (e.g. the PERQ 3a, which also has a KME monitor). The 3 on the main board are the line oscillator (I think there's a SMD chip encapsulated on this one), the vertical osciallator components, and the vertical output stage comopnents. The latter 2 connect to presets and a TDA1170 chip. AFAIK, the circuitry is conventional. Most problems centre round the line output stage. This _is_ normal. There's a flyback transformer, a conventional driver stage, a line output transistor, etc. Look for shorted diodes in this area. Also watch out for the grey box on the anode cap. This contains a 150M resistor (or so) between the EHT output ('spout' of the flyback transformer, connected to the clip in the anode cap) and the ground wire going back to the CRT base PCB. This is the EHT bleeder, and has been known to go short-circuit. Thls really loads the line output stage.... Remind me as to what the fault is, I'll dig out the schematics, and suggest tests, etc. Do you have an EHT voltmeter? > > (there is a PERQ 1 also with a video fault which I think I mentioned; > that's where the confusion probably arises. That one has a totally > mangled display, squashed horizontally and vertically, very non-linear, > and no recognisable character output on it at all) Do you _know_ if the PERQ is giving the right scan frequencies? (64kHz horizontal, 60Hz vertical IIRC). -tony From geoffreythomas at onetel.net.uk Fri Feb 20 17:26:20 2004 From: geoffreythomas at onetel.net.uk (Geoffrey Thomas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:36 2005 Subject: For free: TRS-80, software, manuals etc. (Cambridge UK) References: <1077112278.32645.52.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <02aa01c3f80b$0840d0a0$d2564ed5@geoff> O/k if I forward your message to the Dragon computer group ? Geoff. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jules Richardson" To: Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2004 1:51 PM Subject: For free: TRS-80, software, manuals etc. (Cambridge UK) > > Someone just gave me a boxed Acorn Electron and donated a Tandy TRS-80 > Colour Computer 2 at the same time. > > I have no desire to hang onto the Tandy. It seems to power up ok and be > in very good condition under the dirt (it needs a clean!) - no case > yellowing etc. > > Comes with: > > Fitted dust cover > Couple of boxed cartridges > Several original tapes > TV + tape recorder leads > Tape recorder (standard 80's thingy) > Operation manuals etc. > Several large Tandy Basic turorial books etc. > > It was destined for the skip otherwise so I couldn't say no - somebody > *please* take it off my hands :-) > > cheers > > Jules From rdd at rddavis.org Fri Feb 20 17:58:13 2004 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:36 2005 Subject: VAX Booting and Startup Dilema (was: VAX console and crossover...) In-Reply-To: References: <20040220045549.GF13924@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <20040220235123.GA20144@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Witchy, from writings of Fri, Feb 20, 2004 at 01:19:46PM -0000: > My wiring bible built up over many moons has a passive MMJ-DB25 pinout as > the reverse of that based on your diagram above: Thanks... that was it. I located my Rat Shack mini-tester and discovered that the TD light was lit... right then and there, I knew something was backwards. :-) Also, thanks to Fred for advising me to not use handshaking. I was then getting data from the VAX on the xterm, but no data was being accepted by the VAX. After setting flow control to xon/xoff, I could boot the VAX. :-) Still, a few things don't seem right, as I can't get to a login prompt. The system waits forever after displaying the following: $! Copyright (c) 1991 Digital Equipment Corporation. All rights reserved. %STDRV-I-STARTUP, VMS startup begun at 20-FEB-2004 15:10:39.9 Next, I tried booting into the sysboot prompt with "b/1 dia0:", got a sysboot> prompt and from there, using: SET/STARTUP OPA0: SET WRITESYSPARAMS 0 C was able to get to a DCL prompt. However, the following, which I'm certain that I did before without any problems, occurs after the following commands: SPAWN SYS$SYSTEM:STARTUP $ sys$system:startup %DCL-W-NOLBLS, label ignored - use only within command procedures \SYS$SYSTEM:\ _What: Any thoughts/ideas? If it matters, it's VAX/VMS 5.5. -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From CordaAJ at NSWC.NAVY.MIL Fri Feb 20 17:51:12 2004 From: CordaAJ at NSWC.NAVY.MIL (Corda Albert J DLVA) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:36 2005 Subject: "This old SGI" page - anyone have a copy? Message-ID: <7B4C28C84831D211BFA200805F9F345605A16E11@nswcdlvaex04.nswc.navy.mil> Out of curiosity, what were they complaining about? If it's just the use of the SGI logo, that's easily remedied (I'll replace it with something non-copyrighted... wasn't there a picture somewhere on the web of a Rack Onyx sitting next to a dumpster?). If, however, it concerns contents, (i.e. hardware hacks to the machine) that may be another matter... however, I don't see how they could pursue this, as long as you're not reverse-engineering a PROM. I still believe you're allowed to take things apart, fix 'em and put 'em back together again. I will however, state that I don't have the financial means (or inclination) to get into a legal fight with SGI over this... -al- -acorda@1bigred.com -----Original Message----- From: James Rice [mailto:jrice54@charter.net] Sent: Friday, February 20, 2004 6:35 PM To: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: "This old SGI" page - anyone have a copy? I'm glad to know the "paralegal from hell" hasn't contacted you yet. "Never Beige" and "The Sgi Addict" bit the dust due to legal threats from SGI. I have enjoyed your site and hope to see it online once again. James Corda Albert J DLVA wrote: >Since this is actually my page, I should probably see what's going on... >admittedly, I've kind of let it lapse for the past couple of years, >(things got really busy for a while...). When I first put this together, >it was the only reference out there of this type for SGI stuff (which is why >I did it.) Now, there seem to be a whole host of SGI specific sites, so >I never really saw the need to update it... the new sites seemed to be >handling the newer systems quite adequately. > ... From vcf at siconic.com Fri Feb 20 18:03:51 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:36 2005 Subject: "This old SGI" page - anyone have a copy? In-Reply-To: <7B4C28C84831D211BFA200805F9F345605A16E11@nswcdlvaex04.nswc.navy.mil> Message-ID: On Fri, 20 Feb 2004, Corda Albert J DLVA wrote: > Out of curiosity, what were they complaining about? If it's just the use > of the SGI logo, that's easily remedied (I'll replace it with something > non-copyrighted... wasn't there a picture somewhere on the web of a > Rack Onyx sitting next to a dumpster?). > > If, however, it concerns contents, (i.e. hardware hacks to the machine) > that may be another matter... however, I don't see how they could > pursue this, as long as you're not reverse-engineering a PROM. I still > believe you're allowed to take things apart, fix 'em and put 'em back > together again. Welcome to the era of the DCMA. We don't care what you're doing with it. We don't even care if the law doesn't apply. We just want you to do what we say or we'll a$$ f!@k you mercilessly [1]. [1] Splendid imagery supplied courtesy of the big business interests that got this bill passed. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Fri Feb 20 18:12:51 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:36 2005 Subject: VAX Booting and Startup Dilema (was: VAX console and crossover...) In-Reply-To: <20040220235123.GA20144@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of R. D. Davis > Sent: 20 February 2004 23:51 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: VAX Booting and Startup Dilema (was: VAX console and > crossover...) > > accepted by the VAX. After setting flow control to xon/xoff, > I could boot the VAX. :-) Yay. I'd forgotten about the 'don't use hardware handshaking' rule 'cos I just plug VAXen into a VT these days. > SPAWN > SYS$SYSTEM:STARTUP > > $ sys$system:startup > %DCL-W-NOLBLS, label ignored - use only within command > procedures \SYS$SYSTEM:\ > _What: > > > Any thoughts/ideas? If it matters, it's VAX/VMS 5.5. You've missed the @ off the beginning of the line: @sys$system:startup However, it might also be useful to boot to SYSBOOT with: >>> B/1 dia0 SYSBOOT> set startup_p1 "min" SYSBOOT> set startup_p2 "TRUE" SYSBOOT> C Which will give you detailed lists of what the VAX is doing as it boots. I don't remember a VMS 5 system giving the %STDRV message at boot time though, but then I didn't see every VMS 5 system boot :) Let us know what you get! Cheers w From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Fri Feb 20 19:45:50 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:36 2005 Subject: Perq 2T1 display fault In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1077327148.3866.29.camel@weka.localdomain> On Fri, 2004-02-20 at 23:18, Tony Duell wrote: > > > Just to confirm, we're talking about a PERQ 1 here -- it's confusing to > > > me wether this is a PERQ 1 (verically-mounted SA4000 hard disk at the > > > left side, monito connects on a single DC37 connector) or a PERQ 2T1 > > > > It's a 2T1, vertical drive mounted at the back. > > Oh, right... > > Can you please re-describe the 2 faults and the machines they occur on -- > I was under the impression I was considering a PERQ 1 (VMI monitor) with > a small picture all round... Well the 2T1 is the one I'll try and sort out first, as that one certainly appears to have a healthy (or almost-healthy) system unit. So, the 2T1 has a standard KME as you say - it looks to have correct horizontal and vertical drive, with the exception that it skips every few lines, leaving a blank horizontal gap. I can see what look to be characters on the display, but they're not at all readable. Difficult to tell if it's scrambled pixels (suggesting a system fault) or an analogue problem (suggesting the monitor). The display has an unstable shimmering right margin to it, which definitely looks analogue in nature. Onto the PERQ 1. Standard monitor as you say - only that one is *totally* stuffed. The picture (such as it is) is collapsed into maybe 2" vertically, and about 80% of the screen width horizontally. It's extremely non-linear; left and right margins weave all over the place. I can see beam traces all over the shop within the squashed picture too. It's actually quite a work of art! Not sure if there's more than one fault going on here, or whether some critical point isn't getting to the right voltage and that's causing the whole thing to fail. > OK, back to the T1. I think it's the machine I worked on some years ago > (don't worry, everything is 'stock', apart from the fact you may find the > odd IC in a socket if I replaced it). Ahh, yes it will be. I checked all the connectors and reseated the boards plus chips - I remember seeing a few socketed ones that didn't look like they would have originally been socketed. > The only non-standard feature is > the monitor power cable -- I couldn't find the original lead, and the > connector at the monitor end is something odd. So I removed that > connector, fitted a length of cable with a 3 pin DIN plug (to fit the > PERQ's 55V output socket) and wired the other end inside the monitor, > using a strain-relief bush in the holw where the power connector used to > be. That shouldn't cause many problems. That's definitely the machine. I remember thinking it odd that all the cables from the monitor were socketed apart from the power lead :) > one), the vertical osciallator components, and the vertical output stage > comopnents. The latter 2 connect to presets and a TDA1170 chip. AFAIK, > the circuitry is conventional. I think I mentioned in the original post that, IIRC, those same chips are used in Cub monitors and have a habit of cooking themselves. Pretty sure they tend to result in just a single hoizontal line in the centre of the screen when they go though, not 'missing' lines as I'm seeing. > Do you have an EHT voltmeter? Personally, no. I'll hunt around in the museum for one tomorrow (I'm sure some of the radio room or Colossus guys must have one) > > (there is a PERQ 1 also with a video fault which I think I mentioned; > > that's where the confusion probably arises. That one has a totally > > mangled display, squashed horizontally and vertically, very non-linear, > > and no recognisable character output on it at all) > > Do you _know_ if the PERQ is giving the right scan frequencies? (64kHz > horizontal, 60Hz vertical IIRC). No idea on that one unfortunately - that why I thought I'd worry about the 2T1 first as it at least looks like it's trying to do something useful :) cheers Jules From rdd at rddavis.org Fri Feb 20 20:07:47 2004 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:36 2005 Subject: VAX Booting and Startup Dilema (was: VAX console and crossover...) In-Reply-To: References: <20040220235123.GA20144@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <20040221020059.GB20144@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Witchy, from writings of Sat, Feb 21, 2004 at 12:12:51AM -0000: > @sys$system:startup That seemed to cause the systmem to hang... however... perhaps I didn't wait long enough... but I'm sure I waited over 10 minutes, just as I did last time I did it. However, after doing the following, it all took under about five minutes to get to the DCL prompt. > However, it might also be useful to boot to SYSBOOT with: > > >>> B/1 dia0 > SYSBOOT> set startup_p1 "min" > SYSBOOT> set startup_p2 "TRUE" > SYSBOOT> C [...] > Let us know what you get! > > w Accounting information: Buffered I/O count: 2600 Peak working set size: 794 Direct I/O count: 455 Peak page file size: 11364 Page faults: 2880 Mounted volumes: 0 Charged CPU time: 0 00:00:17.00 Elapsed time: 0 00:02:11.34 Username: SYSTEM Password: Welcome to VAX/VMS version V5.5 Last interactive login on Saturday, 28-JUL-2001 00:45 Last non-interactive login on Friday, 27-JUL-2001 14:02 %CDU-E-OPENIN, error opening QFAX_SYS:[SYSMGR]QFAX.CLD; as input -RMS-F-DEV, error in device name or inappropriate device type for operation $ Wow, how time flies. This poor VAX had been sitting under my cellar stairs, unused, since July of 2001! Zog! Didn't realize it had been that long... good thing I needed to change that light bulb, got sidetracked and then ended up moving the VAX. :-) Thanks! Now, I've just set the time to the right time, and can begin playing with this VAX. Next things: getting LAT working between the VAX and the FreeBSD box and start installing some software like gcc and CMU-IP. Fortunatley, the previous owner installed kermit on this machine. Time to dig out my box of old DCL scripts from around 1991 with various DCL scripts and the miniature game of adventure that I wrote in DCL, which doubles as a DCL prompt. :-) Cheers! RDD -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From pat at computer-refuge.org Fri Feb 20 20:00:57 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:36 2005 Subject: Aargh...It never ends.. In-Reply-To: <019b01c3f800$b8802480$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> References: <019b01c3f800$b8802480$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <200402202100.57330.pat@computer-refuge.org> On Friday 20 February 2004 17:27, John Allain wrote: > > Ducking and running as I post this.... > > http://techrepublic.com.com/5208-6230-0.html?forumID=10&threadID=1473 >74&mess ageID=1579357 > > Problem, agreed. > > > Wasn't it concluded that it took something like 50mA to kill? > Soooo... If we convert our houses and appliances to 30KV/50mA, we > can get them to run, without danger of _death_. I guess the house > would then approximate a plasma dome... And it wouldn't it be > difficult to hold a cup of coffee? Hmm. I've got the transformer off an X-Ray generator which puts out 60kV at probably at least 30mA sitting in my office where I've been playing with it a bit before bringing it home (and building a Bigger Better jacobs ladder). I think it'd probably sting a bit to get in the path of that... It's quite funny, actually. When I tell people that I have it because "it makes sparks," no one seems to understand. But when I show them what it does, they're usually quite impressed and gain understanding. :) Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From classiccmp at trailing-edge.com Fri Feb 20 19:59:26 2004 From: classiccmp at trailing-edge.com (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:36 2005 Subject: Classic Computing in LA In-Reply-To: <9414519877dundas@caltech.edu> References: <9414519877dundas@caltech.edu> Message-ID: <4036BB7E.nailF0W13Z1IE@mini-me.trailing-edge.com> >> I'm going to Los Angeles, CA for a few days next week on business. Are there >> any good spots to check out for classic computing / electronics gear? John replied > My favorite electronics spots are Dow (now Mavac) and C&H, both on Colorado > Blvd. C&H is highly recommended, especially if you're into surplus optics/ mechanics/pneumatics. It'll be disappointing if you expect computer stuff. They do have some 60's and 70's vintage test gear, albeit overpriced. All Electronics has a retail store in Van Nuys, see http://www.allelectronics.com/. The store has a lot of stuff that's not in the catalog, some of it is computing related. I was always impressed by the cheap electronics gadgets that they had. Apex Electronics (http://www.apexelectronic.com/) in San Fernando always has some interesting stuff. Less consistent than C&H, but that just means that you're likely to find something you weren't expecting :-) Tim. From classiccmp at trailing-edge.com Fri Feb 20 20:04:55 2004 From: classiccmp at trailing-edge.com (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:36 2005 Subject: Aargh...It never ends.. In-Reply-To: <200402202100.57330.pat@computer-refuge.org> References: <019b01c3f800$b8802480$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <200402202100.57330.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: <4036BCC7.nailF2E1LC42D@mini-me.trailing-edge.com> > It's quite funny, actually. When I tell people that I have it because > "it makes sparks," no one seems to understand. But when I show the > what it does, they're usually quite impressed You need to get a carbon arc lamp :-). John, does Dabney house still fire up "Buttercup" once in a while? The sure sign is the bullhorn telling you "DO NOT LOOK DIRECTLY AT THE LIGHT!" Tim. From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Fri Feb 20 20:13:16 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:36 2005 Subject: Aargh...It never ends.. In-Reply-To: <4036BCC7.nailF2E1LC42D@mini-me.trailing-edge.com> References: <019b01c3f800$b8802480$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <200402202100.57330.pat@computer-refuge.org> <4036BCC7.nailF2E1LC42D@mini-me.trailing-edge.com> Message-ID: <200402210220.VAA06762@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > You need to get a carbon arc lamp :-). > John, does Dabney house still fire up "Buttercup" once in a while? > The sure sign is the bullhorn telling you "DO NOT LOOK DIRECTLY AT > THE LIGHT!" Duh. Carbon arc is about as safe to look at as an arc-welding arc, or perhaps less so. My father used to tell of one time when he used something like ten pairs of sunglasses to stop the light down to where it was tolerable one time when he had to arcweld without a proper helmet. He learned the hard way that the intensity of an arcwelding arc is still going up when it leaves the visible range, and normal sunglasses are designed for sunlight, ie, a peak somewhere in the yellow - they don't stop nearly enough ultraviolet. He sunburned his eyes rather badly. His description is that it's like living with a handful of sand in each eye. For a week. Since then he's always done the eyes-closed bit when he has to arcweld sans helmet. (Ie, prepare, close eyes, strike arc, weld by feel and sound, break arc, and ONLY THEN open eyes to see how you did!) /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From jwest at classiccmp.org Fri Feb 20 20:56:19 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:36 2005 Subject: HP 547A? Message-ID: <001f01c3f826$484ce330$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Anyone have an extra HP 547A current tracer probe they would consider a trading/selling? Thanks! Jay West From thedm at sunflower.com Fri Feb 20 21:11:14 2004 From: thedm at sunflower.com (Bill Girnius) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:36 2005 Subject: OS/2 Warp question - MPTS? References: <5.1.1.6.0.20040219020923.036fbfb8@pop.freeserve.net><000d01c3f692$19d5b580$0200a8c0@look.ca><005f01c3f6e6$3715c370$6501a8c0@barton><001701c3f6ff$4e8a84a0$0200a8c0@look.ca><007301c3f76a$47df81d0$6501a8c0@barton> <000b01c3f7c4$1ea534e0$0200a8c0@look.ca> Message-ID: <003001c3f828$60694d80$6501a8c0@barton> You ever tried arachne? It's pretty cool and tiny, works great in DOS, don't know about LAN support though. Its an integrated web browser, email ftp client, etc for a DOS machine, runs wicked fast on a 286, I think the minimum is an XT even. It's free and you can get it right from the guy who wrote it at http://home.arachne.cz/ enjoy:) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Mahoney" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Friday, February 20, 2004 9:13 AM Subject: Re: OS/2 Warp question - MPTS? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bill Girnius" > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 11:30 PM > Subject: Re: OS/2 Warp question - MPTS? > > > > Laptops were never well supported for OS/2 even the IBM thinkpads, if you > > can get a 3com nic they still have OS2 drivers on their downloads. PCMCIA > > was a fledgeling technology when warp 3.0 was out, if you really wanna > play > > with it, try it on a desktop with an old 3com nic and it will work great, > > laptop..hmm not sure it would work easily even if you found the right > > driver,.... unless of course it was a thinkpad with a 3com pcmcia card. > > > > If you really get bored, got to IBM's knowledge base in the thinkpad > section > > and search for OS2, it's amazing that a company that makes both products > > makes them work so bad together. > > > > > > Hope this helps, and if nothing else, you have fun, that is why we do all > > this crazy stuff :) > > > Yup, that's why we do it. This all started when I tried to find a DOS > browser for a bit of speed but none of them could ID my video card on my > donated laptop. OS/2 always interested me, and I think I will load it on one > of my IBM desktops just to get it online. > Does anyone remember the demo OS/2 CD that IBM sent out? It had a lot of > video on it plus some version of OS/2. The thing I remember most is that all > the videos looked very similar to a cheap porno flick. The main character, > the guy, had this very dramatic Van Dyke beard/moustache and the woman whose > house he was visiting to set up OS/2 was, to say the least, a fine figure of > a woman. I remember thinking that there was no way this product would ever > work if this was the kind of promotion they were giving it. I should put one > of the segments up on my site for fun. > > Thanks again everyone. > > BM > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Feb 20 21:48:09 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:36 2005 Subject: Perq 2T1 display fault In-Reply-To: <1077327148.3866.29.camel@weka.localdomain> from "Jules Richardson" at Feb 21, 4 01:32:28 am Message-ID: > > On Fri, 2004-02-20 at 23:18, Tony Duell wrote: > > > > Just to confirm, we're talking about a PERQ 1 here -- it's confusing to > > > > me wether this is a PERQ 1 (verically-mounted SA4000 hard disk at the > > > > left side, monito connects on a single DC37 connector) or a PERQ 2T1 > > > > > > It's a 2T1, vertical drive mounted at the back. > > > > Oh, right... > > > > Can you please re-describe the 2 faults and the machines they occur on -- > > I was under the impression I was considering a PERQ 1 (VMI monitor) with > > a small picture all round... > > Well the 2T1 is the one I'll try and sort out first, as that one > certainly appears to have a healthy (or almost-healthy) system unit. > > So, the 2T1 has a standard KME as you say - it looks to have correct > horizontal and vertical drive, with the exception that it skips every > few lines, leaving a blank horizontal gap. I can see what look to be That does _not_ sound like a monitor problem. You're getting missing video every few scan lines, right? In which case, either you've got some Analogue signal that's blanking the display _and_ which is locked to the vertcial sync signal, or you've got a problem with the memory board (middle board in the cardcage) in the PERQ. How far does it get through the self-tests? What's the final number on the DDS display (front of the CPU box) when it tries to boot? > characters on the display, but they're not at all readable. Difficult to > tell if it's scrambled pixels (suggesting a system fault) or an analogue > problem (suggesting the monitor). The display has an unstable shimmering > right margin to it, which definitely looks analogue in nature. That may be normal. There's some marginal timing in the vidro circuitry, and often the right few pixels are a bit unstable :-( At least one of my PERQs does that... > > > Onto the PERQ 1. Standard monitor as you say - only that one is > *totally* stuffed. The picture (such as it is) is collapsed into maybe > 2" vertically, and about 80% of the screen width horizontally. It's > extremely non-linear; left and right margins weave all over the place. I > can see beam traces all over the shop within the squashed picture too. > It's actually quite a work of art! Not sure if there's more than one > fault going on here, or whether some critical point isn't getting to the > right voltage and that's causing the whole thing to fail. I will ook at the VMI manuals... This one does sound to have some kind of monitor problem... > > > OK, back to the T1. I think it's the machine I worked on some years ago > > (don't worry, everything is 'stock', apart from the fact you may find the > > odd IC in a socket if I replaced it). > > Ahh, yes it will be. I checked all the connectors and reseated the > boards plus chips - I remember seeing a few socketed ones that didn't > look like they would have originally been socketed. You'd be suprised. The only chips I _remember_ socketting was an op-amp on the hard disk analogue PCB. Origianlly, all programmed devices (PROMS, PALs, the EPROM on the EIO board) were socketed. So where some of the I/O devices on the EIO board. And a fair number of control logic chips on the memory board may be socketed, espeically if there are kludgewires soldered to them... -tony From jrice54 at charter.net Fri Feb 20 22:07:13 2004 From: jrice54 at charter.net (James Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:36 2005 Subject: "This old SGI" page - anyone have a copy? In-Reply-To: <7B4C28C84831D211BFA200805F9F345605A16E11@nswcdlvaex04.nswc.navy.mil> References: <7B4C28C84831D211BFA200805F9F345605A16E11@nswcdlvaex04.nswc.navy.mil> Message-ID: <4036D971.8000109@charter.net> They are complaining about the use of the cube logo, the Silicon Graphics font logos, referring to the workstations in plural such as "Indigo's", using official pictures and not having a disclaimer that the site is not authorized by Sgi, no products sold here are warranted or authorized by Sgi and no warranties as far as the accuracy of information is given by Sgi. I put the disclaimers on my site, but no one has asked for the logo to be removed. I don't have the resources to fight either. James Corda Albert J DLVA wrote: >Out of curiosity, what were they complaining about? If it's just the use >of the SGI logo, that's easily remedied (I'll replace it with something >non-copyrighted... wasn't there a picture somewhere on the web of a >Rack Onyx sitting next to a dumpster?). > >If, however, it concerns contents, (i.e. hardware hacks to the machine) >that may be another matter... however, I don't see how they could >pursue this, as long as you're not reverse-engineering a PROM. I still >believe you're allowed to take things apart, fix 'em and put 'em back >together again. > >I will however, state that I don't have the financial means (or inclination) >to get into a legal fight with SGI over this... > >-al- >-acorda@1bigred.com > > > > > http://webpages.charter.net/jrice54/classiccomp2.html From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Fri Feb 20 22:37:30 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:36 2005 Subject: Aargh...It never ends.. References: <019b01c3f800$b8802480$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <200402202100.57330.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: <4036E08A.5000104@jetnet.ab.ca> Patrick Finnegan wrote: > Hmm. I've got the transformer off an X-Ray generator which puts out > 60kV at probably at least 30mA sitting in my office where I've been > playing with it a bit before bringing it home (and building a Bigger > Better jacobs ladder). I think it'd probably sting a bit to get in the > path of that... Build a demo fusor,that is lots of fun. ( And $$$ and time and parts ) http://www.fusor.net/ > It's quite funny, actually. When I tell people that I have it because > "it makes sparks," no one seems to understand. But when I show them > what it does, they're usually quite impressed and gain > understanding. :) Wait till you roll out the dead body and show them how you can bring it to life.:D > Pat Ben. From esharpe at uswest.net Fri Feb 20 23:22:07 2004 From: esharpe at uswest.net (ed sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:36 2005 Subject: Aargh...It never ends.. References: <019b01c3f800$b8802480$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06><200402202100.57330.pat@computer-refuge.org> <4036E08A.5000104@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <005001c3f83a$a61743c0$c2956d44@SONYDIGITALED> it should make a fine Jacobs ladder! ed! ----- Original Message ----- From: "ben franchuk" To: ; "On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Friday, February 20, 2004 9:37 PM Subject: Re: Aargh...It never ends.. > Patrick Finnegan wrote: > > > Hmm. I've got the transformer off an X-Ray generator which puts out > > 60kV at probably at least 30mA sitting in my office where I've been > > playing with it a bit before bringing it home (and building a Bigger > > Better jacobs ladder). I think it'd probably sting a bit to get in the > > path of that... > > Build a demo fusor,that is lots of fun. > ( And $$$ and time and parts ) > http://www.fusor.net/ > > > It's quite funny, actually. When I tell people that I have it because > > "it makes sparks," no one seems to understand. But when I show them > > what it does, they're usually quite impressed and gain > > understanding. :) > > Wait till you roll out the dead body and show them how you can bring it > to life.:D > > > Pat > Ben. > > > > > From freddyboomboom at comcast.net Fri Feb 20 20:47:31 2004 From: freddyboomboom at comcast.net (Andrew Prince) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:36 2005 Subject: Bigger hard disk on Toshiba 4010CDT In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.22.0.20040219130442.061713d0@iffpcsrv.iff.kfa-juelich.de> References: <6.0.0.22.0.20040219130442.061713d0@iffpcsrv.iff.kfa-juelich.de> Message-ID: <1077331651.2049.17.camel@localhost> On Thu, 2004-02-19 at 07:17, R. Mueller wrote: > Does anybody know how to get a Toshiba 4010CDT to accept a larger hard > disk. > I also > would be happier to find a way to alter the BIOS and buy a HDD locally, > though I did find one company offering hard disks which they suggest will > work with the 4010CDT, while giving no clue that they in some way deal with > the BIOS problem. www.shoptoshiba.com indicates that Toshiba has up to a 60 Gigabyte drive upgrade that is compatible with the Satellite 4010CDT. I got there from a link on www.csd.toshiba.com , in case you were interested... So as long as you got your BIOS updated to 8.20 (found at http://cdgenp01.csd.toshiba.com/content/support/downloads/1400cv82.exe) you should be ok with going to your local computer store and getting a 2.5 inch hard drive up to 60 GB in capacity, and putting it into the little "carrier" thingamabob the original drive came in, and there you go... They want $379 for the 60 GB one, though... It comes with a 3 year warranty, so it might be ok... ENU (www.enuinc.com) in Portland has 20, 30, 40 and 60 GB laptop drives in stock, from $106 to $175... Before purchasing, you should get the original drive out of the laptop, open the carrier, and see where the mounting screws that mount the drive to the carrier are located. OLDER ones have the mounting holes in the corners of the drive, newer ones have them in towards the middle of the sides of the drives. Yours is probably a newer one. TTFN Andrew From donm at cts.com Sat Feb 21 00:55:47 2004 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:36 2005 Subject: Olivetti PR2300 Printer Message-ID: Tomorrow at about 1400 I will be going to a computer disposal session that is held infrequently. Among other items that I will be taking for disposal is the subject printer. It is a unique item in that it is one of the very early inkjet printers and information about it is scarce. It is of typical size and weight for a desktop unit - about the size of an Epson dot-matrix unit - and in rather good condition. If anyone wants this piece as a collectible and is willing to pay packing and shipping from 92037, I will hold it back. But, I must know before 1400 PST or it's gone! - don From vcf at siconic.com Sat Feb 21 02:12:04 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:36 2005 Subject: Classic Computing in LA In-Reply-To: <4036BB7E.nailF0W13Z1IE@mini-me.trailing-edge.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 20 Feb 2004, Tim Shoppa wrote: > All Electronics has a retail store in Van Nuys, see > http://www.allelectronics.com/. The store has a lot of stuff that's > not in the catalog, some of it is computing related. I was always > impressed by the cheap electronics gadgets that they had. That's where I picked up a PDP 11/05 several years ago. On my way to John Lawson's former abode, I stopped off at their shop but it was closed (it's right around the corner from my uncle's house). However, I ogled through the window and spotted the 11/05! On the way back from John's pad I stopped in again and they were open. I went straight for the rack where I saw the 11/05 and it was still there (only a day later). I got it for $50 (their asking price...they wouldn't budge on it, but hey, at $50 I'm not complaining--I'm just a cheap bastard ;) > Apex Electronics (http://www.apexelectronic.com/) in San Fernando > always has some interesting stuff. Less consistent than C&H, but > that just means that you're likely to find something you weren't > expecting :-) It kinda sucks that it seems there are more surplus shops in the L.A. area (though spaced much farther apart) than in the Bay Area now. We've only got about half the shops we used to (3 or 4). Even in the last couple years a couple more closed down. I remember growing up in L.A. and there were eletronics stores all over. Priorty 1 Electronics in Canoga Park was like a mecca with all that cool Apple ][ stuff (that I couldn't afford). Ah, memories... -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Sat Feb 21 02:14:06 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:36 2005 Subject: Aargh...It never ends.. In-Reply-To: <200402210220.VAA06762@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: On Fri, 20 Feb 2004, der Mouse wrote: > Since then he's always done the eyes-closed bit when he has to arcweld > sans helmet. (Ie, prepare, close eyes, strike arc, weld by feel and > sound, break arc, and ONLY THEN open eyes to see how you did!) It sounds like your dad needs to leave a couple extra welding masks laying around in various locations ;) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Sat Feb 21 02:21:35 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:36 2005 Subject: Aargh...It never ends.. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200402210827.DAA17685@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> >> Since then he's always done the eyes-closed bit when he has to >> arcweld sans helmet. (Ie, prepare, close eyes, strike arc, weld by >> feel and sound, break arc, and ONLY THEN open eyes to see how you >> did!) > It sounds like your dad needs to leave a couple extra welding masks > laying around in various locations ;) Oh, if there's a real welder, there will surely be helmets (or at least goggles, though you have to be careful with goggles - sometimes they're for oxyacetelyne welding, not sufficient for arc-welding). I'm talking about times like out on the road in rural India when he's managed to convert a spare diesel truck starter motor into a generator and is using it as an emergency arc-welder. (No, that's not a specific example, as far as I know. But it's the sort of thing he might well have done at need - he had a real gift for things mechanical, and he did tend to end up in places like Poland after the war, or rural India, where you can't just pop down to the corner store and pick up an arc-welding helmet.) /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Sat Feb 21 03:36:48 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:36 2005 Subject: Perq 2T1 display fault In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1077355407.4616.7.camel@weka.localdomain> On Sat, 2004-02-21 at 03:48, Tony Duell wrote: > > So, the 2T1 has a standard KME as you say - it looks to have correct > > horizontal and vertical drive, with the exception that it skips every > > few lines, leaving a blank horizontal gap. I can see what look to be > > That does _not_ sound like a monitor problem. You're getting missing > video every few scan lines, right? In which case, either you've got some > Analogue signal that's blanking the display _and_ which is locked to the > vertcial sync signal, or you've got a problem with the memory board > (middle board in the cardcage) in the PERQ. Ahh, fair call - I was wondering along the lines of bad cap or otherwise in the vertical drive, such that it was the display itself which was producing uneven deflection (because I can only see vague character shapes I can't tell if I'm actually missing data, or if there are blank lines effectively inserted into the display by the monitor itself) I am not a display expect by any means! :) > How far does it get through the self-tests? What's the final number on > the DDS display (front of the CPU box) when it tries to boot? It gets to 999, which I assumed was normal - but maybe not! Maybe the character data on the screen is telling me there's a video problem, but that isn't much use if there's a video problem ;) > The display has an unstable shimmering > > right margin to it, which definitely looks analogue in nature. > > That may be normal. There's some marginal timing in the vidro circuitry, > and often the right few pixels are a bit unstable :-( At least one of my > PERQs does that... Ahh, ok. > > Ahh, yes it will be. I checked all the connectors and reseated the > > boards plus chips - I remember seeing a few socketed ones that didn't > > look like they would have originally been socketed. > > You'd be suprised. The only chips I _remember_ socketting was an op-amp > on the hard disk analogue PCB. Fair enough :) I love the dual-stacking of chips on the memory board! cheers Jules From freudenburg at es.ucsb.edu Thu Feb 19 12:45:17 2004 From: freudenburg at es.ucsb.edu (Wm. R. Freudenburg) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:36 2005 Subject: Northgate keyboard? Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20040219104329.0149ce98@imap.lsit.ucsb.edu> Greetings. You're getting this note because one of your e-mail exchanges comes up on a Google search for "Northgate Keyboards." I'm looking for one like you describe--with the control key just to the left of the "a." Still have it? Wanna sell it? ******************************************************** William R. Freudenburg Dehlsen Professor of Environmental Studies and Sociology University of California Santa Barbara, CA 93106-4160 phone: 805-893-8282 fax: 805-893-8686 ******************************************************** From john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org Thu Feb 19 13:01:29 2004 From: john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org (John Boffemmyer IV) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:36 2005 Subject: Can anyone help this gent? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.2.20040219135915.0253ec28@mail.n.ml.org> I already directly replied to him an hour ago and left a list of 4 sites he can obtain software from for use with most Windows operating systems. I hope it helps him since he was just looking for Windows software/drivers to support the unit on a PC, not hardware. -John Boffemmyer IV At 01:51 PM 2/19/2004, you wrote: >Jay- > >I think the parts for the M4 9914 are still available from >http://www.pine1nc.com/M4.htm > >I ordered a new revision EPROM from them a while back. > >-Ken V. > >-----Original Message----- >From: Jay West [mailto:jwest@classiccmp.org] >Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 12:32 PM >To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts >Subject: Re: Can anyone help this gent? > > >I mean, the SCSI board that goes into the M4 data drive is what I need, not >a scsi board for a host cpu. > >Jay >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Jay West" >To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > >Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 12:28 PM >Subject: Re: Can anyone help this gent? > > > > No, but I would give my left arm for a SCSI board for the M4 Data drive :\ > > > > Jay West > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Bruce Lane" > > To: > > Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 11:20 AM > > Subject: FW: Can anyone help this gent? > > > > > > > I received E-mail this morning from a fellow who's trying to track down >a > > Windows or DOS driver for an M4 Data 9-track tape drive. > > > > > > I wasn't able to provide much in the way of insight. If anyone here can > > help, please reply directly to him. Thanks much. > > > > > > Forwarded message follows. > > > > > > -=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > > > > > > From: Yung.Robert@northropgrumman.ca > > > Subject: Re: M4 Data 9914R > > > > > > I currently have a M4 Data 9914 Tape drive running off of a VAX system > > > that is reaching its end of life. I need to be able to transfer the > > > functionality of this system to a PC... hence the need for a PC version > > > of the driver. The code that runs the tape drive is written in Fortran > > > 77, which will also have to be converted to some other PC compatible > > > language. In any case, my current headache is to either find a win/dos > > > driver for the M4, or source a new 9mm (800-1600bpi) tape drive that > > > comes with a win/dos driver. Is there anything at all that you could > > > help me with? > > > > > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > > > Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, > > > Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com > > > kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech do/t c=o=m > > > "If Salvador Dali had owned a computer, would it have been equipped with > > surreal ports?" > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- > > [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > > > > > >--- >[This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > > >*************************************************************** >This E-mail is confidential. It should not be read, copied, disclosed or >used by any person other than the intended recipient. Unauthorized use, >disclosure or copying by whatever medium is strictly prohibited and may be >unlawful. If you have received this E-mail in error, please contact the >sender immediately and delete the E-mail from your system. >*************************************************************** ---------------------------------------- Founder, Lead Writer, Tech Analyst and Web Designer Boff-Net Technologies http://boff-net.dhs.org/index.html --------------------------------------- From sieler at allegro.com Fri Feb 20 14:52:05 2004 From: sieler at allegro.com (Stan Sieler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:36 2005 Subject: Smoke on the Horizon... oh s**t! In-Reply-To: <200402171829.i1HITFj8075777@daemonweed.reanimators.org> References: Message-ID: <403602F5.17810.24401668@localhost> Re: > Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > Frank McConnell has a terrific photo of a tantalum blowing on a Sol-20 > > I was present but someone else had the camera. Stan Sieler maybe? > > And I thought it was a N* Horizon too. Or maybe I'm confusing it with > the one I blew out some tantalum caps in. http://www.sieler.com/baccl/19990619/ Yes, it was a Northstar Horizon ... one of two that flamed the same way, at the same place (not on the same day). -- Stan Sieler sieler@allegro.com www.allegro.com/sieler/wanted/index.html From arcarlini at iee.org Sat Feb 21 03:57:28 2004 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:36 2005 Subject: VAX Booting and Startup Dilema (was: VAX console and crossover...) In-Reply-To: <20040220235123.GA20144@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <002201c3f861$1e670510$5b01a8c0@athlon> > was able to get to a DCL prompt. However, the following, > which I'm certain that I did before without any problems, > occurs after the following commands: > > > SPAWN > SYS$SYSTEM:STARTUP The SPAWN is fine - it starts a subprocess so if you mistype anything (like your next line :-)), it's the subprocess that gets killed on the error. Your second line should have had the @-sign in there: @SYS$SYSTEM:STARTUP Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org > From allain at panix.com Sat Feb 21 09:12:14 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:36 2005 Subject: Classic Computing in... References: Message-ID: <001801c3f88d$1692c320$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > {SValley} We've only got about half the shops we used to (3 or 4). > Even in the last couple years a couple more closed down. What about these: WierdStuff, Halted, Alltronics, Haltek. All OK? John A. From lbickley at bickleywest.com Sat Feb 21 10:05:30 2004 From: lbickley at bickleywest.com (Lyle Bickley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:36 2005 Subject: Classic Computing in... In-Reply-To: <001801c3f88d$1692c320$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> References: <001801c3f88d$1692c320$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <200402210805.30960.lbickley@bickleywest.com> Also Mike Quinn in Oakland Lyle On Saturday 21 February 2004 07:12, John Allain wrote: > > {SValley} We've only got about half the shops we used to (3 or 4). > > Even in the last couple years a couple more closed down. > > What about these: > WierdStuff, Halted, Alltronics, Haltek. All OK? > > John A. -- Lyle Bickley Bickley Consulting West Inc. http://bickleywest.com "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero" From ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net Sat Feb 21 10:11:50 2004 From: ron.hudson at sbcglobal.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:36 2005 Subject: Classic Computing in... In-Reply-To: <001801c3f88d$1692c320$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: On Saturday, February 21, 2004, at 07:12 AM, John Allain wrote: >> {SValley} We've only got about half the shops we used to (3 or 4). >> Even in the last couple years a couple more closed down. > > What about these: > WierdStuff, Halted, Alltronics, Haltek. All OK? > > John A. > Weirdstuff - still there big selection if you count the as is area. Most everything I have gotten from them has been from as it, I don't remember buying anything broken... Halted - Mostly componets resistors, capacitors, transitors IC's. Some 486-pentium systems, Test Equipment. but Lots o Parts. Alltronics - closed I think... Haltek - definitly closed Also a bit farther north in oakland there is another place - Mike Flynns? (aargh nuron is sticky this morning and wont fire) anyway I sure someone else can come up with the proper name... From aek at spies.com Sat Feb 21 10:24:08 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:36 2005 Subject: Classic Computing in... Message-ID: <200402211624.i1LGO870029959@spies.com> > {SValley} We've only got about half the shops we used to (3 or 4). > Even in the last couple years a couple more closed down. What about these: WierdStuff, Halted, Alltronics, Haltek. All OK? -- Haltek closed several years ago. Alltronics moved to South San Jose, haven't been there but it is supposed to be MUCH smaller. Rumor has it the Foothill flea market is gone (moving to Lockheed?) From fmc at reanimators.org Sat Feb 21 11:01:34 2004 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:36 2005 Subject: Classic Computing in... In-Reply-To: <200402211624.i1LGO870029959@spies.com> (Al Kossow's message of "Sat, 21 Feb 2004 08:24:08 -0800") References: <200402211624.i1LGO870029959@spies.com> Message-ID: <200402211701.i1LH1Y31083813@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Al Kossow wrote: > Rumor has it the Foothill flea market is gone (moving to Lockheed?) Somewhere near there, details at . -Frank McConnell From vcf at siconic.com Sat Feb 21 12:26:40 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:36 2005 Subject: Aargh...It never ends.. In-Reply-To: <200402210827.DAA17685@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: On Sat, 21 Feb 2004, der Mouse wrote: > Oh, if there's a real welder, there will surely be helmets (or at least > goggles, though you have to be careful with goggles - sometimes they're > for oxyacetelyne welding, not sufficient for arc-welding). I'm talking > about times like out on the road in rural India when he's managed to > convert a spare diesel truck starter motor into a generator and is > using it as an emergency arc-welder. (No, that's not a specific > example, as far as I know. But it's the sort of thing he might well > have done at need - he had a real gift for things mechanical, and he > did tend to end up in places like Poland after the war, or rural India, > where you can't just pop down to the corner store and pick up an > arc-welding helmet.) Your dad wouldn't happened to be named MacGyver by any chance? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Sat Feb 21 12:32:54 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:36 2005 Subject: Smoke on the Horizon... oh s**t! In-Reply-To: <403602F5.17810.24401668@localhost> Message-ID: On Fri, 20 Feb 2004, Stan Sieler wrote: > > Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > > Frank McConnell has a terrific photo of a tantalum blowing on a Sol-20 > > > > I was present but someone else had the camera. Stan Sieler maybe? > > > > And I thought it was a N* Horizon too. Or maybe I'm confusing it with > > the one I blew out some tantalum caps in. > > http://www.sieler.com/baccl/19990619/ > > Yes, it was a Northstar Horizon ... one of two that flamed the > same way, at the same place (not on the same day). Wow, my memory is already going. I could've swore it was a Sol-20. My apologies to Frank! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Sat Feb 21 12:34:41 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:37 2005 Subject: Classic Computing in... In-Reply-To: <001801c3f88d$1692c320$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: On Sat, 21 Feb 2004, John Allain wrote: > > {SValley} We've only got about half the shops we used to (3 or 4). > > Even in the last couple years a couple more closed down. > > What about these: > WierdStuff, Halted, Alltronics, Haltek. All OK? Haltek: Long Gone Alltronics: no more store front; internet/catalog sales only WeirdStuff and Halted are still there, as is Excess Solutions. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Sat Feb 21 12:36:59 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:37 2005 Subject: Classic Computing in... In-Reply-To: <200402211624.i1LGO870029959@spies.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 21 Feb 2004, Al Kossow wrote: > Rumor has it the Foothill flea market is gone (moving to Lockheed?) That would be great! Much closer to me. Though I still probably won't make it a regular thing. I hate getting up that early on a Saturday. http://www.electronicsfleamarket.com/ -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Sat Feb 21 12:43:34 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:37 2005 Subject: Classic Computing in... In-Reply-To: <200402211701.i1LH1Y31083813@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: On Sat, 21 Feb 2004, Frank McConnell wrote: > Al Kossow wrote: > > Rumor has it the Foothill flea market is gone (moving to Lockheed?) > > Somewhere near there, details at . Yah! No more parking permit Nazis to worry about. They've been replaced with something worse apparently: Restrictions We are near a secure military installation and no photography is allowed. Security personel will be observing the market and they will demand your "film" if they observe you taking pictures. Stay away from the secure area east of the flea market. We understand there will be some curiousity about the base, just observe it from the flea market area. Don't head over there for a closer look. They are justifiably paranoid. Yeesh. Now we can feel paranoid as we rummage through electronic junk. "Just what are you trying to build with that 1Kv transformer, Mr. Ismail?" -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From transit at lerami.lerctr.org Sat Feb 21 12:55:58 2004 From: transit at lerami.lerctr.org (Charles P. Hobbs (SoCalTip)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:37 2005 Subject: Foothill/Lockheed flea market In-Reply-To: <200402211800.i1LI037I073007@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <200402211800.i1LI037I073007@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: > > Rumor has it the Foothill flea market is gone (moving to Lockheed?) > > Somewhere near there, details at . > > -Frank McConnell This isn't too bad, probably easier to get to (better freeway and even Light Rail Access).... From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Sat Feb 21 13:15:16 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:37 2005 Subject: VAX Booting and Startup Dilema (was: VAX console andcrossover...) In-Reply-To: <20040221020059.GB20144@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of R. D. Davis > Sent: 21 February 2004 02:01 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: VAX Booting and Startup Dilema (was: VAX console > andcrossover...) > > %CDU-E-OPENIN, error opening QFAX_SYS:[SYSMGR]QFAX.CLD; as > input -RMS-F-DEV, error in device name or inappropriate > device type for operation $ Good stuff. I added the STARTUP_P2 in there so it would dump all startup output to the screen as it was booting, and STARTUP_P1 prevents the system from executing sys$manager:systartup_v5.com, which is the site-specific startup file. In that file there'll be some file initiation for stuff that doesn't exist any more, QFAX probably being one of them. You need to track down those startup files that no longer exist any more, and take out the $SET COMMAND QFAX_SYS:QFAX (or similar) that lives in SYS$MANAGER:SYLOGIN.COM or SYS$MANAGER:LOGIN.COM > Wow, how time flies. This poor VAX had been sitting under my > cellar stairs, unused, since July of 2001! Zog! Didn't > realize it had been that long... good thing I needed to > change that light bulb, got sidetracked and then ended up > moving the VAX. :-) Hehe. > Now, I've just set the time to the right time, and can begin > playing with this VAX. Next things: getting LAT working > between the VAX and the FreeBSD box and start installing some > software like gcc and CMU-IP. Fortunatley, the previous Since you're registered with the hobbyist program you can install VAX C and UCX too, or is there a reason you need gcc and CMU-IP? Long time since I've seen mention of the latter :) Cheers -- Adrian/Witchy Owner & Webmaster, Binary Dinosaurs www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From rdd at rddavis.org Sat Feb 21 14:31:48 2004 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:37 2005 Subject: VAX Booting and Startup Dilema (was: VAX console andcrossover...) In-Reply-To: References: <20040221020059.GB20144@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <20040221202504.GC20144@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Witchy, from writings of Sat, Feb 21, 2004 at 07:15:16PM -0000: > Good stuff. I added the STARTUP_P2 in there so it would dump all startup > output to the screen as it was booting, and STARTUP_P1 prevents the system > from executing sys$manager:systartup_v5.com, which is the site-specific > startup file. In that file there'll be some file initiation for stuff that > doesn't exist any more, QFAX probably being one of them. You need to track > down those startup files that no longer exist any more, and take out the > $SET COMMAND QFAX_SYS:QFAX (or similar) that lives in > SYS$MANAGER:SYLOGIN.COM or SYS$MANAGER:LOGIN.COM Ok, thanks, I'll start commenting things out of the startup files and poke around some more to see what all does, and doesn't, exist. Once I mounted the other disk manually, I discovered lots of files pertaining to qfax, software by Audiotechs for the DECvoice boards, etc. Not sure how complete that software is---some things appear to me missing, or what good it is to me, since I don't have commercial telephone wiring. BTW, the qfax software apparently works with a board manufactured by a company called Talon... one of the text files on the system lists that as some sort of FAX hardware... need to look into this a bit more. Apparently a modem too, possibly, since it has a Rockwell IC, IIRC, on it. A while back I think someone mentioned some piece of hardware that allows one to use standard residential voice lines with the commercial telephone (T1?) lines. Does anyone recall anything about this? It would be fun to be able to put these DECvoice boards to some creative use to have fun with people who keep dialing wrong telephone numbers and reach my number. :-) > Since you're registered with the hobbyist program you can install VAX C and > UCX too, or is there a reason you need gcc and CMU-IP? Long time since I've > seen mention of the latter :) Can those be used with VAX/VMS 5.5? This system has a licence which never expires, according to what I've seen by poking around. This machine is also supposed to have an indefinite license for VAXC, RDB and a few other things, but I'm still trying to figure out what all is actually installed... the directory structure appears to be rather disorganized. -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From rdd at rddavis.org Sat Feb 21 15:24:20 2004 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:37 2005 Subject: MIPS Magnum 3000 (was: VAX Booting...) In-Reply-To: References: <20040221020059.GB20144@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <20040221211057.GD20144@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Witchy, from writings of Sat, Feb 21, 2004 at 07:15:16PM -0000: > > Wow, how time flies. This poor VAX had been sitting under my > > cellar stairs, unused, since July of 2001! Zog! Didn't > > realize it had been that long... good thing I needed to > > change that light bulb, got sidetracked and then ended up > > moving the VAX. :-) > > Hehe. Also rediscovered a little MIPS Magnum 3000 box. Anyone familiar with these? I don't have a monitor for it, so perhaps I can just attach a terminal to it and see what happens... somewhere I may have the keyboard for it. It has a couple of small SCSI disks in it and a what appears to be a DC300 or DC600 tape drive. :-) -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Sat Feb 21 15:27:39 2004 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:37 2005 Subject: Classic Computing in... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8c9b65844c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> In message Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > Security personel will be observing the market and they will demand your > "film" if they observe you taking pictures. *blink* *blink* "Please hand over your eyeballs. We know you're using them to take pictures." "Um, no, I'm using them to *see*. The crucial difference being I need them to see what I'm doing." "Hand them over or leave" [fx: click of safety lock on guard's gun being unlatched] Um, No thanks, I think I'll stick to the local "Let's rent out an indoor sports hall for the day" type hamfests. > "Just what are you trying to build with that 1Kv transformer, Mr. Ismail?" How about "What do you intend to do with those computer microprocessors, Sir." Ugh. No thanks. Surely there are some other car parks and suchlike in the area that could be used? A few years ago, someone booked out half of the local supermarket's car park for a day (Sunday IIRC) for a car-boot sale. Not sure how much the supermarket charged them to do it, but the sale got more attention than the supermarket :) Later. -- Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, philpem@dsl.pipex.com | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice, http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI ... Stealing is illegal: our government hates the competition! From allain at panix.com Sat Feb 21 16:42:19 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:37 2005 Subject: Classic Computing in... References: <8c9b65844c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> Message-ID: <03f401c3f8cb$f722ac00$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > *blink* *blink* > "Please hand over your eyeballs. We know you're using them to take > pictures." This weeks episode of PBS: "Innovation" was about bionics. The camera that was being used to help ths blind woman out, although fixed to the _front_ of her eyeglasses, was actually smaller than a human eyeball. John A. The proto-electronics pack was huge though. And the system sucked at what it did. But.... Soon.... footnotes: "Journey to the Far Side of the Sun/Doppelganger" (1969) From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Feb 21 16:38:41 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:37 2005 Subject: Perq 2T1 display fault In-Reply-To: <1077355407.4616.7.camel@weka.localdomain> from "Jules Richardson" at Feb 21, 4 09:23:28 am Message-ID: > > On Sat, 2004-02-21 at 03:48, Tony Duell wrote: > > > So, the 2T1 has a standard KME as you say - it looks to have correct > > > horizontal and vertical drive, with the exception that it skips every > > > few lines, leaving a blank horizontal gap. I can see what look to be > > > > That does _not_ sound like a monitor problem. You're getting missing > > video every few scan lines, right? In which case, either you've got some > > Analogue signal that's blanking the display _and_ which is locked to the > > vertcial sync signal, or you've got a problem with the memory board > > (middle board in the cardcage) in the PERQ. > > Ahh, fair call - I was wondering along the lines of bad cap or otherwise > in the vertical drive, such that it was the display itself which was > producing uneven deflection (because I can only see vague character I'd love to know what fault could essentially put stair-steps in the vertical deflection waveform. That waveform is generated in an analogue manner, by chaeging a cap connected to the TDA1170 chip, BTW... Anyway, what I'd do at this point is try to get a grey raster from the monitor. Unplug the video BNC cable, leave the other cables connected (so the monitor gets the right scan frequencies, etc. Turn up the brightness (and if necessary, tweak the sub-brightness pot on the monitor PCB -- I can find out which one that is if it's not obvious). Look at the screen. You're aiming for an even, grey, rectangle. If you get that, the deflection sside is fine. If you get black lines across it, then I am going to have to think very carefully... > shapes I can't tell if I'm actually missing data, or if there are blank > lines effectively inserted into the display by the monitor itself) > > I am not a display expect by any means! :) > > > How far does it get through the self-tests? What's the final number on > > the DDS display (front of the CPU box) when it tries to boot? > > It gets to 999, which I assumed was normal - but maybe not! Maybe the That's right for POS (which is what I left on the machine when I last fiddled with it). 255 is right for PNX, 400 for Accent (IIRC). Unless there's a really strange problem, I think we can assume the PERQ is booting properly. OK, that means the PERQ's CPU can access memory, and that the memory has passed the self-tests. So there's not a RAM problem. But there could be a video controller problem. Once we know whether the monitor can give a plain raster, I will dig out the appropriate schematics (memory board (that's where all the video stuff is ) or monitor and see what I can deduce -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Feb 21 16:56:55 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:37 2005 Subject: TCA240 pinout and a little data Message-ID: Jules Richardson (IIRC) was asking about this chip to repair a classic computer peripheral (so it is on-topic)... I can't find it in a databook, but I've found a circuit that uses it -- the 'Head Amplifier Playback' module (board P50) in a Philips VR2020 VCR [1].It seems to contain 8 NPN transistors and nothing else (at least the schematic of that board shows the internals of the IC as 8 transistors only) and consists of 2 identical sections. Each is a long-tailed pair with a couple more transistors acting as a current sink for the 'tail'. Anyway, here's a pinout. There may be substrate connections, etc that I don't know about, and which might matter if you want to design something round the IC. But this should be enough to understand the circuit the chip is used in. I assume the chip Jules is looking at is a 16 pin DIL package. I'll draw the schematic of half the chip, giving the pin numbers for one section, with the corresponding pins for the other section in parentheses... 14 (11) 12 (13) o o | | | | / \ |/ \| 3 (6) o-----| |-----o 4 (5) |\> \ | +----------o 1 (8) | / |/ 15 (10) o-------| |\> \ | | o 16 (9) -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Feb 21 17:07:35 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:37 2005 Subject: Perq 2T1 display fault In-Reply-To: <1077355407.4616.7.camel@weka.localdomain> from "Jules Richardson" at Feb 21, 4 09:23:28 am Message-ID: Jules mentioned to me by e-mail that the blanking pattern is not stable, and that there's a lot of ripple on the output of the 48V regulator in the monitor. These 2 observations must be connected :-) -- it sounds like excessive power ripple is upsetting the monitor's video circuity. I would therefore check : The 2 capactiors -- particularly the 0.1uF one -- on the regulator PCB (on the back of the heatsink). The following capacitors on the monitor main PCB : C11 (47uF) C10 (10uF) C2 (1000uF) C19 (47uF) C3 (1000uF) And C3 (47uF) on the CRT base PCB -tony From vcf at siconic.com Sat Feb 21 17:18:29 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:37 2005 Subject: Classic Computing in... In-Reply-To: <8c9b65844c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 21 Feb 2004, Philip Pemberton wrote: > Surely there are some other car parks and suchlike in the area that could be > used? A few years ago, someone booked out half of the local supermarket's > car park for a day (Sunday IIRC) for a car-boot sale. Not sure how much the > supermarket charged them to do it, but the sale got more attention than the > supermarket :) Knowing how this sort of thing works, I'm sure it's very difficult, with all the zillions of acres of blacktop in the Silicon Valley, to find a suitable location. There are all sorts of regulations, liabilities, insurance issues, etc. The insurance concerns, above all, are what keeps anything from being done. In fact, with the state of the insurance industry today, and the requirement from everyone and everything to require insurance to do anything, I'm surprised this country functions at all. I hope it works out. Foothill was great but those parking lot cops were a bunch of fucking pricks. I'm glad it's moved and I hope it has found a permanent location for the next 20 years. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Sat Feb 21 17:28:52 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:37 2005 Subject: Perq 2T1 display fault In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200402212330.SAA19686@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > I'd love to know what fault could essentially put stair-steps in the > vertical deflection waveform. That waveform is generated in an > analogue manner, by chaeging a cap connected to the TDA1170 chip, > BTW... Wouldn't coupling some AC of appropriate frequency into it do the trick? Assuming the AC is phase-locked to the vertical scan, of course, otherwise the bands wouldn't stay still.... /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Sat Feb 21 17:53:45 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:37 2005 Subject: VAX Booting and Startup Dilema (was: VAX consoleandcrossover...) In-Reply-To: <20040221202504.GC20144@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of R. D. Davis > Sent: 21 February 2004 20:25 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: VAX Booting and Startup Dilema (was: VAX > consoleandcrossover...) > > Ok, thanks, I'll start commenting things out of the startup > files and poke around some more to see what all does, and > doesn't, exist. >From looking at comp.os.vms you've been having disk based fun which is now sorted....good. The second I saw your post I thought 'he could've asked here and got a faster response' :) > Once I mounted the other disk manually, I discovered lots of > files pertaining to qfax, software by Audiotechs for the > DECvoice boards, etc. Not sure how complete that software One of my customers used DECtalk (I assume you mean that) lots for announcing timechecks and potline voltages/temperatures. I was v. annoyed when they ditched the whole lot *while I was on site* and didn't give me the chance of salvaging it. They also had racks of PDP stuff that they also binned......grrr...... > A while back I think someone mentioned some piece of hardware > that allows one to use standard residential voice lines with > the commercial telephone (T1?) lines. Does anyone recall > anything about this? It would be fun to be able to put these > DECvoice boards to some creative use to have fun with people > who keep dialing wrong telephone numbers and reach my number. :-) I'm not familiar with QFAX but I'd assume it was a domestic fax product along the lines of the (perhaps) much later Wilco FAXbox. I doubt it'd need anything more than a handful of phonelines, unless it was part of a much bigger setup. > Can those be used with VAX/VMS 5.5? This system has a > licence which never expires, according to what I've seen by > poking around. This machine is also supposed to have an Hmm......I'd think so. Your license must be a type A with 60 units? UCX was originally the Ultrix Connection (or a very close similar name) so it would've been a TCP/IP stack to allow VMS boxen to talk to DECstations and the like; maybe Antonio can fill us in on that one? I remember CMU-IP (Carnegie-Mellon University) and Multinet came about because the similar DEC product cost an arm and a leg because they were still pushing DECnet and Ken was still very proprietary. We all know the C language was developed (or finalised) on a PDP-11 so that would almost definitely have been available on VMS 5. I've still got the CDs from back then so I'll grab the layered product CDs and let you know what version it was..... Cheers -- Adrian/Witchy Owner & Webmaster, Binary Dinosaurs www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From jdickens at ameritech.net Sat Feb 21 18:27:13 2004 From: jdickens at ameritech.net (James Dickens) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:37 2005 Subject: Foothill/Lockheed flea market In-Reply-To: References: <200402211800.i1LI037I073007@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <200402211827.13660.jdickens@ameritech.net> On Saturday 21 February 2004 12:55 pm, Charles P. Hobbs (SoCalTip) wrote: > > > Rumor has it the Foothill flea market is gone (moving to Lockheed?) > > > > Somewhere near there, details at > > . > > > > -Frank McConnell > > This isn't too bad, probably easier to get to (better freeway and > even Light Rail Access).... hmm... i wonder what policy is, do I have to buy a second ticket for large machines i get from the flea market... a sun 4/690mp or 1/2 height dec racks? James From arcarlini at iee.org Sat Feb 21 19:02:23 2004 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:37 2005 Subject: "This old SGI" page - anyone have a copy? In-Reply-To: <4036D971.8000109@charter.net> Message-ID: <003901c3f8df$88d5e320$5b01a8c0@athlon> > Graphics font logos, referring to the workstations in plural such as > "Indigo's", But that is singular possessive, is it not :-) Seriously, this is one of those "defend your trademark or lose it" things; they need to show that they tried to stop you turning their trademark into a generic name (like hoover or any of a dozen other examples). I don't think they can force *you* to comply (although they can certainly sue you into oblivion for exsiting or whatever it is that DMCA prevents you from doing). >using official pictures There I guess you lose. Snap your own :-) >and not having a > disclaimer that the > site is not authorized by Sgi, no products sold here are warranted or > authorized by Sgi and no warranties as far as the accuracy of > information is given by Sgi. It's your site not SGI's. Can they really force you to say these things (no big deal if they can, and probably no big deal for you to say them ... but even so, can they legally force you to comply?) Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Sat Feb 21 19:23:51 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:37 2005 Subject: Aargh...It never ends.. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200402220125.UAA19943@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> >> But it's the sort of thing he might well have done at need - he had >> a real gift for things mechanical, and he did tend to end up in >> places like Poland after the war, or rural India, where you can't >> just pop down to the corner store and pick up an arc-welding helmet. > Your dad wouldn't happened to be named MacGyver by any chance? No, none of his names were anything like that. Malcolm Warren Parker. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From vcf at siconic.com Sat Feb 21 20:36:28 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:37 2005 Subject: Aargh...It never ends.. In-Reply-To: <200402220125.UAA19943@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: On Sat, 21 Feb 2004, der Mouse wrote: > >> But it's the sort of thing he might well have done at need - he had > >> a real gift for things mechanical, and he did tend to end up in > >> places like Poland after the war, or rural India, where you can't > >> just pop down to the corner store and pick up an arc-welding helmet. > > Your dad wouldn't happened to be named MacGyver by any chance? > > No, none of his names were anything like that. Malcolm Warren Parker. Hint: joke :) There was a TV show by that name where the main character carried around an encyclopedic knowledge of all things and could manufacture whatever he needed from elements in his immediate environment in order to escape out of whatever predicament his secret agent lifestyle got him in to. MacGyver Homepage http://www.uplinktech.net/macgyver/ (I'm amazed that there are fan pages for this show.) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From jpero at sympatico.ca Sat Feb 21 16:28:39 2004 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:37 2005 Subject: Aargh...It never ends.. In-Reply-To: References: <200402220125.UAA19943@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <20040222032826.QBEE18644.tomts10-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 18:36:28 -0800 (PST) > From: Vintage Computer Festival > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > Subject: Re: Aargh...It never ends.. > Reply-to: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > On Sat, 21 Feb 2004, der Mouse wrote: > > > >> But it's the sort of thing he might well have done at need - he had > > >> a real gift for things mechanical, and he did tend to end up in > > >> places like Poland after the war, or rural India, where you can't > > >> just pop down to the corner store and pick up an arc-welding helmet. > > > Your dad wouldn't happened to be named MacGyver by any chance? > > > > No, none of his names were anything like that. Malcolm Warren Parker. > > Hint: joke :) There was a TV show by that name where the main character > carried around an encyclopedic knowledge of all things and could > manufacture whatever he needed from elements in his immediate environment > in order to escape out of whatever predicament his secret agent lifestyle > got him in to. > > MacGyver Homepage > http://www.uplinktech.net/macgyver/ > > (I'm amazed that there are fan pages for this show.) Hmm, that date me, had A-team (thought it was ok but in the end AWFUL), MacGyver, Hulk, Night Kright, etc. All from early to mid 80's. Cheers, Wizard From jpl15 at panix.com Sat Feb 21 21:46:14 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:37 2005 Subject: Heath EC-1 Analog on eBay Message-ID: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2788209717&category=1247 20 hours to go - $130.50 so far.... Kinda funky looking and tried it out, says "it lights up"... Cheers John From jpl15 at panix.com Sat Feb 21 22:02:06 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:37 2005 Subject: Heath H-8 on eBay Message-ID: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2788264325&category=4193 so far $150 - about a day to go. Cheers John From jwest at classiccmp.org Sat Feb 21 22:45:15 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:37 2005 Subject: Heath EC-1 Analog on eBay References: Message-ID: <000701c3f8fe$aa60fb50$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> I actually used one of these in high school. The picture brought back many memories (hah) of programming with wires :) Jay West ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Lawson" To: Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2004 9:46 PM Subject: Heath EC-1 Analog on eBay > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2788209717&category=1247 > > > 20 hours to go - $130.50 so far.... > > Kinda funky looking and tried it out, says "it lights up"... > > > Cheers > > John > > > > > From jwest at classiccmp.org Sat Feb 21 22:47:32 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:37 2005 Subject: Heath H-8 on eBay References: Message-ID: <000f01c3f8fe$fc0a9740$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> I have two of them in mint condition, one stock, one tricked out :) Nooooooo not gonna let either one go :) They have an extremely high 'fun' factor! Jay ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Lawson" To: Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2004 10:02 PM Subject: Heath H-8 on eBay > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2788264325&category=4193 > > > so far $150 - about a day to go. > > Cheers > > John > > > > From jpl15 at panix.com Sat Feb 21 23:22:24 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:37 2005 Subject: Heath H-8 on eBay In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sat, 21 Feb 2004, John Lawson wrote: > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2788264325&category=4193 > > > so far $150 - about a day to go. > Also available are the H89 terminal and the dual 8" disk drives - go to the original auction and then select "view seller's other items" Should have done my homework before posting... ;{} Cheerz John From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Sun Feb 22 03:19:39 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:37 2005 Subject: lk401 keyboard protocol? Message-ID: <200402220931.EAA06346@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Does anyone know of any doc on the protocol spoken by the LK401? I've got one, and while I can deduce some of the protocol from the NetBSD driver, there are some problems. Specifically, both shift keys give me the same code, and both "Alt Function" keys and the right-hand "Compose Character" key are completely dead. While the shift keys could be wired together, the presence of an LK_KEY_R_SHIFT define argues against that, and surely the other three keys are not supposed to be dead. I conjecture that at least some of this is because it's running in LK201 mode; on comparing it to an LK201 I note that the three dead keys have no obvious analogues on the LK201. Looking at the driver I'm using, this appears to be the keyboard's fault; I see very little translation going on between the keyboard and the events reaching userland. This leaves me looking for enough protocol docs to tell the keyboard to do these. There are defines which appear to imply that sending 0xe9 and expecting 0xba in return might put it in LK401 mode, but there's no indication of what changes (for example, how LK201-compatible it is). I can of course just try it and see, but I'd much rather have real doc if it's available. I did some looking around and found a number of archived messages talking about LK401s, but none that said anything about the protocol at this level. In case it matters, the keyboard I have is MODEL NO. LK401-AA REV. NO. A03 SERIAL NO. HJ203R6565 CAT. LIST. 108RX33S-1E FCC I.D. A09-LK401 and I'm using it with a DEC 3000/300X. I'm not sure whether this is strictly on-topic or not, but if not I think it's probably close. :) /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From sebastian.brueckner at epost.de Sun Feb 22 04:04:03 2004 From: sebastian.brueckner at epost.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Sebastian_Br=FCckner?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:37 2005 Subject: Unknown QBUS board Message-ID: <40387E93.9030603@epost.de> Hi! A few month ago I acquired a VAXstation 3200. It runs runs very nicely with a Emulex UC08 SCSI-Controller off a 1GB full-height SCSI-Disk. There is one QBUS card in the system that I can't identify. As far as I know the VAX has been used for measurement data aquisition in a physics laboratory. The only connector to the outside is for a 40-pin ribbon cable. I got a very long (10m I guess) cable with the box so I suppose it is using some kind of differential data transmission. Unfortunately I don't know what was connected to the other end of the cable. Probably the card is useless without that second part (maybe a A/D-Converter?). The board occupies all 4 slots and is populated mostly with small ICs of the 74xxx series and some PALs. The Label says: KINETICSYSTEMS MODEL D1571 MODEL 2922-Z1B I did not find any usable information on he net. Does anyone of you know what this board does? Thanks in advance, Sebastian From curt at atarimuseum.com Sun Feb 22 10:49:02 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:37 2005 Subject: Needed - VT320 keyboard References: <5.2.0.9.0.20040220104548.03c95850@mail.ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <004c01c3f963$c6c8e900$1a02a8c0@starship1> Anyone has a spare VT320 keyboard that can sell me? The shift keys seems to have died on mine and I can't locate the source of the issue yet, but in the meantime I need to get a keyboard so I can work on my Vax and would the : symbol is next to impossible. Curt From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Sun Feb 22 11:21:48 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:37 2005 Subject: "This old SGI" page - anyone have a copy? In-Reply-To: <003901c3f8df$88d5e320$5b01a8c0@athlon> References: <003901c3f8df$88d5e320$5b01a8c0@athlon> Message-ID: <1077469712.11494.129.camel@weka.localdomain> On Sun, 2004-02-22 at 01:02, Antonio Carlini wrote: > Seriously, this is one of those "defend your trademark or > lose it" things; they need to show that they tried to stop > you turning their trademark into a generic name (like > hoover or any of a dozen other examples). I don't think they > can force *you* to comply (although they can certainly sue > you into oblivion for exsiting or whatever it is that DMCA > prevents you from doing). So how does DCMA affect those people outside of the US? Presumably it doesn't matter one bit - DCMA, being a US law, can only touch US citizens, right? SGI might well get upset about copyright etc. but they can only do what's possible within the law of the country where what they see as a problem lies. So if you're a US citizen with a website threatened by DCMA, then presumably you just archive the site contents, email it to a friend of yours who happens not to be a US citizen, and have them host it... ps. thought the US was supposed to be the land of free speech? :-) cheers Jules From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Sun Feb 22 11:28:35 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:37 2005 Subject: Perq 2T1 display fault In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1077470120.11494.137.camel@weka.localdomain> On Sat, 2004-02-21 at 23:07, Tony Duell wrote: > Jules mentioned to me by e-mail that the blanking pattern is not stable, > and that there's a lot of ripple on the output of the 48V regulator in > the monitor. bleh - I meant to send that to the list and it went only to Tony. What happens when posting whilst half asleep :) > These 2 observations must be connected :-) -- it sounds like > excessive power ripple is upsetting the monitor's video circuity. > > I would therefore check : > > The 2 capactiors -- particularly the 0.1uF one -- on the regulator PCB > (on the back of the heatsink). > > The following capacitors on the monitor main PCB : > > C11 (47uF) > C10 (10uF) > C2 (1000uF) > C19 (47uF) > C3 (1000uF) > > And > C3 (47uF) on the CRT base PCB Nice one! Thanks, will take a look when I'm up there next (probably Saturday, or possibly sooner if the enormous Marconi system we're expecting delivery of turns up mid-week. Getting that through the door is going to be a major challenge :-) cheers Jules From brianmahoney at look.ca Sun Feb 22 11:36:57 2004 From: brianmahoney at look.ca (Brian Mahoney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:37 2005 Subject: Sellam - TV star ! Message-ID: <001201c3f96a$8aaaba00$0400a8c0@look.ca> Just caught Sellam on Media Television here in Toronto. The show is produced by our independent station, CITY - TV. Is this old news? Anyway, my 14 year old son called me into the room and we both watched the fairly long (for TV) interview/tour. Besides being very interesting to me, I feel it gave my son some new-found pride in what I do as a hobby. Kind of gave it some legitamacy. If anyone wants more details, let me know. Brian M. (seen Sunday Feb. 22/04 at 12:15) From pkoning at equallogic.com Sun Feb 22 11:40:09 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:37 2005 Subject: lk401 keyboard protocol? References: <200402220931.EAA06346@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <16440.59769.480230.944237@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "der" == der Mouse writes: der> Does anyone know of any doc on the protocol spoken by the LK401? der> I've got one, and while I can deduce some of the protocol from der> the NetBSD driver, there are some problems. Specifically, both der> shift keys give me the same code, and both "Alt Function" keys der> and the right-hand "Compose Character" key are completely dead. der> While the shift keys could be wired together, the presence of an der> LK_KEY_R_SHIFT define argues against that, and surely the other der> three keys are not supposed to be dead. der> I conjecture that at least some of this is because it's running der> in LK201 mode; on comparing it to an LK201 I note that the three der> dead keys have no obvious analogues on the LK201. I can't offer LK401 specifics, but just in case it helps, you can find the complete LK201 description in the PRO 300 series technical manual. An online copy lives in http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/pdp11/EK-PC300-V1-001_pro300tecV1.pdf or ...V2.pdf. I don't remember which of the two volumes has this. Looking at some old code of mine, it looks like the LK201 indeed has just one code for the shift keys, so that particular question won't be answered this way, but it may still be useful to give you background data about the protocol. paul From vrs at msn.com Sun Feb 22 12:14:21 2004 From: vrs at msn.com (vrs) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:37 2005 Subject: OT: Free speech (was Re: "This old SGI" page - anyone have a copy?) References: <003901c3f8df$88d5e320$5b01a8c0@athlon> <1077469712.11494.129.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: > ps. thought the US was supposed to be the land of free speech? :-) So far, that was only in previous centuries. Now we are the land of robber barons, once again :-). Vince From curt at atarimuseum.com Sun Feb 22 12:13:26 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:37 2005 Subject: Sellam - TV star ! References: <001201c3f96a$8aaaba00$0400a8c0@look.ca> Message-ID: <005101c3f96f$90e0e610$1a02a8c0@starship1> Was Sellam on America's Most Wanted again..... ;-) Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Mahoney" To: Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2004 12:36 PM Subject: Sellam - TV star ! Just caught Sellam on Media Television here in Toronto. The show is produced by our independent station, CITY - TV. Is this old news? Anyway, my 14 year old son called me into the room and we both watched the fairly long (for TV) interview/tour. Besides being very interesting to me, I feel it gave my son some new-found pride in what I do as a hobby. Kind of gave it some legitamacy. If anyone wants more details, let me know. Brian M. (seen Sunday Feb. 22/04 at 12:15) From rdd at rddavis.org Sun Feb 22 13:05:54 2004 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:37 2005 Subject: "This old SGI" page - anyone have a copy? In-Reply-To: <4036999A.1060309@charter.net> References: <7B4C28C84831D211BFA200805F9F345605A16E0F@nswcdlvaex04.nswc.navy.mil> <4036999A.1060309@charter.net> Message-ID: <20040222185919.GG20144@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe James Rice, from writings of Fri, Feb 20, 2004 at 05:34:50PM -0600: > I'm glad to know the "paralegal from hell" hasn't contacted you yet. > "Never Beige" and "The Sgi Addict" bit the dust due to legal threats > from SGI. I have enjoyed your site and hope to see it online once again. Sounds like its time to create some web pages with themes such as "SGI sucks, try these alternatives instead," and have cartoon drawings of the SGI headquarters building with the sign "Goon Central" on it, or somesuch, or a cartoon of SGI's CEO with the words "Screw the first ammendment, free speech isn't profitable!" coming out of his mouth, and get the pictures spread far and wide around the net. -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From vcf at siconic.com Sun Feb 22 12:59:21 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:37 2005 Subject: "This old SGI" page - anyone have a copy? In-Reply-To: <1077469712.11494.129.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: On 22 Feb 2004, Jules Richardson wrote: > ps. thought the US was supposed to be the land of free speech? :-) Haha. That's funny. The "American Dream" died a while ago. Perhaps you didn't get the memo :( -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Sun Feb 22 13:03:11 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:37 2005 Subject: Sellam - TV star ! In-Reply-To: <001201c3f96a$8aaaba00$0400a8c0@look.ca> Message-ID: On Sun, 22 Feb 2004, Brian Mahoney wrote: > Just caught Sellam on Media Television here in Toronto. The show is > produced by our independent station, CITY - TV. Is this old news? Yes, that show was taped a couple years ago. It's nice to know it's still being aired though. On that note, I'll be appearing on the Screen Savers on March 17 and bringing along a bunch of old media for show & tell. And as a reminder, "Video Game Invasion: the History of a Global Obsession" will air on the Game Show Network on Sunday March 21st, at 9 pm (ET/PT). I appear in various spots in that show as well. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Sun Feb 22 13:03:49 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:37 2005 Subject: Sellam - TV star ! In-Reply-To: <005101c3f96f$90e0e610$1a02a8c0@starship1> Message-ID: On Sun, 22 Feb 2004, Curt vendel wrote: > Was Sellam on America's Most Wanted again..... ;-) They'll never get me alive. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From curt at atarimuseum.com Sun Feb 22 13:14:23 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:37 2005 Subject: Sellam - TV star ! References: Message-ID: <008101c3f978$14aade80$1a02a8c0@starship1> The March 21st show should be really good, I enjoyed the last HGTV show with Sellam in it and they also recycyled a small segment with me talking about Atari Pong as well, I was on the phone with Ralph Baer yesterday (he is the inventor of the Magnavox Odyssey, the first home video game and what Nolan Bushnell based the Pong arcade game after) and he mentioned that he was interviewed along with Nolan, I think Al Alcorn and many others, so it should make for a nice show to watch. Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vintage Computer Festival" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2004 2:03 PM Subject: Re: Sellam - TV star ! > On Sun, 22 Feb 2004, Brian Mahoney wrote: > > > Just caught Sellam on Media Television here in Toronto. The show is > > produced by our independent station, CITY - TV. Is this old news? > > Yes, that show was taped a couple years ago. It's nice to know it's still > being aired though. > > On that note, I'll be appearing on the Screen Savers on March 17 and > bringing along a bunch of old media for show & tell. > > And as a reminder, "Video Game Invasion: the History of a Global > Obsession" will air on the Game Show Network on Sunday March 21st, at > 9 pm (ET/PT). I appear in various spots in that show as well. > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage mputers ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > > > From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Sun Feb 22 13:36:31 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:37 2005 Subject: lk401 keyboard protocol? Message-ID: <0402221936.AA22871@ivan.Harhan.ORG> der Mouse wrote: > Does anyone know of any doc on the protocol spoken by the LK401? I have the LK201 spec, which appears in Appendix B of VCB02 Video Subsystem Technical Manual (EK-104AA-TM, a scan is online and listed in http://vt100.net/manx/), but nothing for LK401. But I like the LK201 better, though. LK201 is more classic, more real. LK401 is a more flimsy plastic thingy. I'm also quite pissed off by and won't tolerate the removal of the Compose and Wait LEDs, and the PeeCee-smelling Alt keys are disgusting. (What ASCII codes are they supposed to generate? A keyboard is by definition a device for transferring ASCII codes from a human to a computer.) > Specifically, both shift keys give me > the same code, and both "Alt Function" keys and the right-hand "Compose > Character" key are completely dead. Yup, the LK401 is in LK201 compatibility mode. It's there so that those who love LK201 but don't have one can use LK401 as a stopgap substitute until we can seize state power in a Revolution and order resumed production of LK201s. > While the shift keys could be > wired together, the presence of an LK_KEY_R_SHIFT define argues against > that, They are wired together on LK201. Separate codes for left and right Shift keys are an LK401 extension. > I conjecture that at least some of this is because it's running in > LK201 mode; on comparing it to an LK201 I note that the three dead keys > have no obvious analogues on the LK201. Exactly. > There are defines which appear to imply that sending 0xe9 > and expecting 0xba in return might put it in LK401 mode, That's what you need to do. > but there's no > indication of what changes (for example, how LK201-compatible it is). > I can of course just try it and see, but I'd much rather have real doc > if it's available. Well, sorry, I don't have any LK401 docs, just LK201, so you'll have to just experiment. > I'm not sure whether this is > strictly on-topic or not, It definitely is! Paul Koning wrote: > I can't offer LK401 specifics, but just in case it helps, you can find > the complete LK201 description in the PRO 300 series technical > manual. An online copy lives in > http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/pdp11/EK-PC300-V1-001_pro300tecV1.pdf > or ...V2.pdf. I don't remember which of the two volumes has this. It's probably the same LK201 spec that I have from Appendix B of VCB02 TM. (I can't look at it, though, as it's a PDF, and I don't look at PDFs. If you want me to look at something, make it ASCII.) MS P.S. I'm right in the process of writing some code for LK201. Here is the header comment describing what I'm doing: /* * This module turns the DEC LK201 keyboard into an IFCTF keyboard. All LK201 * keys are given their standard ASCII meaning, and Compose feature is supported * for entry of 8-bit characters (see below). Arrow keys generate ISO standard * control sequences. The keypad can operate in numeric or application mode * like on VT100, generating the same codes/sequences as on VT100. All function * keys generate control sequences like on VT220 with some extensions. In * general, the LK201 operates like the input half of VT220. * * ASCII input from the keyboard goes into a UNIX tty. This module can be * activated by any user on any given tty, in which case the tty line is to be * connected to the LK201, and input goes into the input queue of the same tty * via ttyinput. Workstation drivers in the kernel can also attach this module * in different ways so that the hardware which talks to the LK201 doesn't have * to presented as a tty, and the input can be routed to another tty that may * also handle workstation display output. * * Input in three charsets is supported: ASCII, ISO Latin-1 and KOI-8. The base * keyboard always inputs ASCII and supports all 128 possible 7-bit characters. * If the tty receiving the input allows 8-bit input, Compose key is enabled and * 8-bit ISO Latin-1 characters can be entered. Hex compose using the numeric * keypad is supported like on VT340 and VT420, which allows all 8-bit codes to * be entered, including C1. (While 7-bit characters can also be entered via * Compose, it is intended for entering 8-bit ISO Latin-1 characters, and is * enabled only when the receiving tty allows 8-bit input.) * * An additional feature not offered by DEC is provided to enter 8-bit input in * Russian KOI-8 instead of Latin-1. If the tty receiving the input is * configured for KOI-8, the Latin-1 Compose feature is not available (Latin-1 * characters are garbage in KOI-8 environment) and the Compose key is redefined * as the KOI-8 RUS/LAT switch. LAT mode is ASCII and in RUS mode Russian KOI-8 * characters are entered per yawerty map. Also in KOI-8 mode a Meta mode is * provided which temporarily supercedes the RUS/LAT mode, entered via * Shift-Compose. In this mode the keyboard uses the standard 7-bit ASCII map * (with Shift, Caps Lock, and Ctrl working normally), but bit 7 is set. Like * hexadecimal compose in Latin-1 mode, this feature allows all 8-bit codes to * be entered. * * The VT220-like operation of LK201 can be altered in two ways to make it more * UNIX-friendly. One modification, originating in VT320, puts ESC at E00 * (upper left corner of main keypad), moves the `~ key to B00 where DEC has put * <>, and puts '<>' over ',.'. This modification makes the keyboard more like * traditional ASCII keyboards UNIX was designed for. The other modification * makes the F11/12/13 keys generate ESC/BS/LF like in VT100 mode on VT2xx/3xx * terminals, while all other function keys generate their "canonical" VT2xx- * style control sequences. This modification allows people to start taking * advantage of new VT2xx generation features while keeping the ESC/BS/LF * function of F11/12/13 keys from VT100 mode. Finally, the character rubout * key generates the erase character set on the receiving tty. * * Autorepeat, bell and keyclick can be customised like on DEC products. A note * about keyclicks though. The LK201 is misdesigned in a way that makes very * clear why keyboards should be designed and built as IFCTF keyboards in * hardware. LK201 was designed so that the host needs to configure it and then * for the most part let it take care of itself. It implements both autorepeat * and keyclick internally so that in theory the host only needs to receive and * accept its transmissions without sending anything back on every key. * * The problem is that the keyboard doesn't know whether any given key has any * function or not in the application in use (in each combination of Ctrl and * Shift modifiers), and with the VT2xx/3xx terminals we've grown used to the * keyclick being generated only if the key is defined. The keyboard isn't * really designed for host control of the keyclick either: while there is a * command to generate a keyclick, the keyboard is clearly designed for * automatic keyclick generation. So how do the terminals do it? Magic? * Well, they do a real kludge. When the keyclicks are enabled in setup, the * LK201 is configured with keyclicks disabled. When the terminal receives a * code for a pressed key, it checks whether that key is defined and thus * should sound a keyclick. If a keyclick is needed, it sends a sequence to * the LK201 that enables the keyclicks (with the desired volume), sounds the * keyclick, and disables the keyclicks right away. Of course this is ugly and * basically defeats the LK201 design. (Actually this is so ugly that I just * couldn't believe that DEC terminals do it. I had to sniff the traffic * between VT340 and LK201 to convince myself that it really does this. It * really does unfortunately.) * * In this implementation I've decided not to bother with this and to let LK201 * click on every key. In this implementation almost all keys are always * defined and generate some code or sequence. The only exceptions are Compose * in 7-bit only mode and some main keypad keys that are not defined with Ctrl. * Since these are rare exceptions and they are the only ones, I have decided * not to bother. */ From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Sun Feb 22 13:53:24 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:37 2005 Subject: "This old SGI" page - anyone have a copy? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1077478810.11495.140.camel@weka.localdomain> On Sun, 2004-02-22 at 18:59, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On 22 Feb 2004, Jules Richardson wrote: > > > ps. thought the US was supposed to be the land of free speech? :-) > > Haha. That's funny. The "American Dream" died a while ago. Perhaps you > didn't get the memo :( we just get the British Dream here... which is like a cut-down version of the American Dream, and comprised of all the bad bits... ;-/ From marvin at rain.org Sun Feb 22 13:56:58 2004 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:37 2005 Subject: American Dream, was Re: "This old SGI" page - anyone have a copy? References: Message-ID: <4039098A.A5C36605@rain.org> Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > On 22 Feb 2004, Jules Richardson wrote: > > > ps. thought the US was supposed to be the land of free speech? :-) > > Haha. That's funny. The "American Dream" died a while ago. Perhaps you > didn't get the memo :( Yup, but we can still fight. I just found out it is against the Santa Barbara city ordinance to park in your own driveway more than 48 hours as they then consider it to be storage. These people are insane!!! From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Sun Feb 22 13:59:19 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:37 2005 Subject: lk401 keyboard protocol? In-Reply-To: <0402221936.AA22871@ivan.Harhan.ORG> References: <0402221936.AA22871@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: <200402222011.PAA07720@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > (What ASCII codes are they supposed to generate? A keyboard is by > definition a device for transferring ASCII codes from a human to a > computer.) Where did you find this definition? I have yet to see any definition of keyboard anywhere - except yours here - that makes any character set a critical part of the definition. (I suppose typewriters old enough to not contain computers don't have keyboards?) For that matter, based on your comment header, your Compose key is as evil as the alt keys you're railing against, since the "what ASCII code is it supposed to generate?" question is just as forceful - and indeed, since you're producing non-ASCII codes, I guess your LK201 will no longer be a keyboard when you're done. >> There are defines which appear to imply that sending 0xe9 and >> expecting 0xba in return might put it in LK401 mode, > That's what you need to do. I've now tried this, making the driver send 0xe9 as part of its "initialize the keyboard" sequence. I now get distinct codes for the shift keys and the three dead keys are no longer dead, with no other visible changes (I was afraid a bunch of other keycodes would change or some such). The keypad . key seems to be dead, though I suspect that may be broken keyboard hardware rather than anything LK401-specific. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From rcini at optonline.net Sun Feb 22 14:18:45 2004 From: rcini at optonline.net (Richard A. Cini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:38 2005 Subject: Equipment upgrade in process - anyone need this? Message-ID: <001501c3f981$131163b0$8201a8c0@bbrdhveies50vd> Hello, all: I'm considering upgrading the server equipment in my house and before I shift things around or consider selling stuff on eBay I wanted to see if anyone may be interested in the system I have. I keep this equipment in the shop, which in a ranch-style house, is below the bedrooms. The half-dozen fans are pretty noisy and my kids complain about the drone. So, I'm want to put together something a bit quiter :-) The server is a Compaq ProLiant 800R rack-mounted dual Pentium Pro server with 384mb of RAM, a 9gb boot drive and a Smart 2DH RAID controller. The RAID array is in a Compaq ProLiant U1 rack-mounted array which contains 5 9.1gb hot-swap ultra-wide 7200RPM SCSI drives. I also have some spare system components to go along with it. The stuff is heavy but shippable by UPS in two boxes (I have the original crate for the U1 enclosure). It's been in continuous service for two years now. The server came off-lease from Ernst & Young. The U1 crate was new as were the drives. It presently runs Windows NT4 Server. If anyone might be interested, please contact me off-list. Shipping would be from 11791 and figure that one box weighs 50 pounds and the other about 35. I'd be interested in swapping it for an IMSAI 8080...ha ha...just kidding. About $300 plus shipping would do it. Thanks. Rich Rich Cini Collector of classic computers Build Master for the Altair32 Emulation Project Web site: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ /************************************************************/ From healyzh at aracnet.com Sun Feb 22 14:33:29 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:38 2005 Subject: Cleaning plexiglass Message-ID: My son, who isn't even old enough to play video games, loves our Neo Geo cabinet. He loves to stand on a stool and play with the buttons, sticks, and to watch the games. Unfortunately he also loves to put handprints on the plexiglass in front of the screen. What is a good way to clean the handprints off without damaging the plexiglass (I have no idea how sensitive it is to cleaning fluids). Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Sun Feb 22 14:50:52 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:38 2005 Subject: lk401 keyboard protocol? Message-ID: <0402222050.AA22970@ivan.Harhan.ORG> der Mouse wrote: > Where did you find this definition? It will be the IFCTF definition when I get around to posting it. Though it will say "ASCII or ASCII extension", and I'm sorry that I didn't make the last bit clear in my message you are replying to. > (I suppose typewriters old enough > to not contain computers don't have keyboards?) Typewriters were a passing fad of the 19th century. Computers have been around for billions of years and will be around for billions of years to come. Every living cell has a microprocessor in its nucleus (too bad biologists are still refusing to use standard computer science terminology and therefore keep reinventing the wheels of computer science), and the pagan gods and goddesses who created us (wrote and compiled our DNA program) surely used computers. The spacecraft they used to get to this planet from theirs were also computer- controlled. Oh, and ASCII terminals are also as old as humanity: every ancient pagan temple had a terminal for the priests to communicate with the gods. And yes, they used a 7-bit code, 7 being the favourite number of Enki, the god who played the greatest role in the creation of human civilisation. The 7-bit codes didn't have the graphic renditions we use today, but then the code is primary, graphic rendition (if you use one at all) is secondary. Oh, and I often tend to decode ASCII as Anunnaki Standard Code for Information Interchange, Anunnaki being the ancient Shumerian term for "Those Who from Heaven to Earth Came" (i.e., ET visitors translated into modern English), which was also the proper name by which the pagan gods and goddesses called themselves. (Different human worshippers knew them by different names, but the only true name is the one by which the gods called *themselves*.) > For that matter, based on your comment header, your Compose key is as > evil as the alt keys you're railing against, since the "what ASCII code > is it supposed to generate?" question is just as forceful - and indeed, > since you're producing non-ASCII codes, I guess your LK201 will no > longer be a keyboard when you're done. See above, I should have said "ASCII or ASCII extension", the latter being things like Soviet KOI-8 and ISO 8859 series. But when it comes to Alt, you gotta admit that it originates in the PC (PeeCee, pee sea, etc) world. DEC's adding of it to LK401 was a consession to the PeeCee world. And I won't make any concessions to the enemy. > (I was afraid a bunch of other keycodes would change or > some such). That's unlikely because keeping everything else the same simplifies the firmware both in the LK401 and in the products designed to use it. (The former needs to work in LK201 compatibility mode, and most of the latter probably accept an LK201 unofficially.) > The keypad . key seems to be dead, though I suspect that may be broken > keyboard hardware rather than anything LK401-specific. It's dead in both LK201 and LK401 modes, right? MS From kth at srv.net Sun Feb 22 14:13:04 2004 From: kth at srv.net (Kevin Handy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:38 2005 Subject: lk401 keyboard protocol? In-Reply-To: <0402222050.AA22970@ivan.Harhan.ORG> References: <0402222050.AA22970@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: <40390D50.4020707@srv.net> Michael Sokolov wrote: >der Mouse wrote: > > > >>Where did you find this definition? >> >> > >It will be the IFCTF definition when I get around to posting it. Though it will >say "ASCII or ASCII extension", and I'm sorry that I didn't make the last bit >clear in my message you are replying to. > > So those thinks plugged into IBM mainframes that look a lot like keyboards, are not keyboards, because they transmit EBCDIC? And those things on those old teletypes aren't either because they use BAUDOUT? What do they call those things with all those buttens with letters on them? From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Sun Feb 22 15:14:26 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:38 2005 Subject: lk401 keyboard protocol? In-Reply-To: <0402222050.AA22970@ivan.Harhan.ORG> References: <0402222050.AA22970@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: <200402222126.QAA08046@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> >> (I suppose typewriters old enough to not contain computers don't >> have keyboards?) > Typewriters were a passing fad of the 19th century. As may be. Do they not have keyboards? You went off on a long tangent when replying to this and never got around to answering the point. As someone else said, what then are those things with all the buttons labeled with letters &c on them? Your attempt to redefine `keyboard' is perhaps vaguely amusing, but both singularly useless (leaving no word for the devices when they're driven by software that doesn't generate ASCII, or when they're not connected to a computer at all) and contrary to common - universal, I would have said before I saw your redefinition - understanding and use. > But when it comes to Alt, you gotta admit that it originates in the > PC (PeeCee, pee sea, etc) world. I do? I don't know where it originated. I also don't much care. Having the buttons there is a Good Thing[%]; nothing compels you to use them in a way you find distasteful (or even at all); if you like, you could even have your software treat all three of them as extensions of the spacebar. What _I_ dislike about the LK401 (and LK201, for that matter) is that the Kevin Handy wrote: > So those thinks plugged into IBM mainframes that look a lot like > keyboards, are not > keyboards, because they transmit EBCDIC? And those things on those old > teletypes > aren't either because they use BAUDOUT? I knew someone was going to ask about those! :-) Well, those are Classic and therefore OK too. My fundamental points are: 1. Every person on Earth must be required to know the fundamental principles of Computer Science, including the principles of character coding. 2. People must realise (just like ancient pagans did) that codes are more primary and more fundamental than character shapes. To illustrate my point: most people believe that letter 'A' is fundamentally a tent with a bar between the slopes, and that 1000001 is one computer representation of it. This is what I am challenging, I argue that letter 'A' is fundamentally 1000001 and that the shape with two slopes and a bar between them is merely one possible representation of this fundamental 7-bit code, a representation that is a passing fad of a society that uses handwriting, printing, paper, and other barbaric antiques like this instead of directly transmitting binary codes from one computer or brain to another. 3. Keyboards, just like all other tools, need to be viewed in this light: it is not a device for entering a certain set of graphic characters, it is a device for entering a certain set of codes in some charset. This is what the IFCTF keyboard definition is all about. MS P.S. Oh, and the Latin alphabet needs to be renamed by law into ASCII International Reference Variant (IRV) alphabet. From technobug at comcast.net Sun Feb 22 15:32:50 2004 From: technobug at comcast.net (CRC) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:38 2005 Subject: Unknown QBUS board Message-ID: On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 11:04:03 +0100, Sebastian Br?ckner schreibt: > A few month ago I acquired a VAXstation 3200. It runs runs very nicely > with a Emulex UC08 SCSI-Controller off a 1GB full-height SCSI-Disk. > > There is one QBUS card in the system that I can't identify. > As far as I know the VAX has been used for measurement data aquisition > in a physics laboratory. > The only connector to the outside is for a 40-pin ribbon cable. I got a > very long (10m I guess) cable with the box so I suppose it is using > some > kind of differential data transmission. > Unfortunately I don't know what was connected to the other end of the > cable. Probably the card is useless without that second part (maybe a > A/D-Converter?). > > The board occupies all 4 slots and is populated mostly with small ICs > of > the 74xxx series and some PALs. > > The Label says: > > KINETICSYSTEMS > MODEL D1571 > MODEL 2922-Z1B > > I did not find any usable information on he net. Does anyone of you > know > what this board does? > > Thanks in advance, > Sebastian You have the Qbus part (KSC2922) of a KSC2922/3922, Qbus CAMAC interface. CAMAC (Computer Automated Measurement And Control) is an instrumentation system extensively used in the nuclear/high energy area. The other end of the cable that you have connected to a rack in which various and sundry instrumentation modules could be placed. IIRC the CAMAC bus was 24 bits and the hardware that you have either packed the data 24->32 or various other packings. The basic standard is IEEE 583. There are a number of standards covering a serial interface as well as software APIs. What you need now is to find a CAMAC bin and the other end of that interface and you can become a nuclear terrorist ;)) Claude From pat at computer-refuge.org Sun Feb 22 15:36:43 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:38 2005 Subject: lk401 keyboard protocol? In-Reply-To: <40390D50.4020707@srv.net> References: <0402222050.AA22970@ivan.Harhan.ORG> <40390D50.4020707@srv.net> Message-ID: <200402221636.43787.pat@computer-refuge.org> Kevin Handy declared on Sunday 22 February 2004 03:13 pm: > What do they call those things with all those buttens with letters on > them? You mean like this? http://www.bblindia.com/rs8.JPG Technically, this is also a keyboard, but isn't in any way character-set related: http://www.silogic.com/organ/keyboard.jpg Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From vcf at siconic.com Sun Feb 22 15:41:27 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:38 2005 Subject: lk401 keyboard protocol? In-Reply-To: <40390D50.4020707@srv.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 22 Feb 2004, Kevin Handy wrote: > What do they call those things with all those buttens with letters on them? Yeah? What does a Pagan call a device outside the realm of their own understanding? "Christian?" ;) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From brianmahoney at look.ca Sun Feb 22 15:46:47 2004 From: brianmahoney at look.ca (Brian Mahoney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:38 2005 Subject: Cleaning plexiglass References: Message-ID: <000c01c3f98d$70d7c640$0200a8c0@look.ca> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Zane H. Healy" To: Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2004 3:33 PM Subject: Cleaning plexiglass > My son, who isn't even old enough to play video games, loves our Neo > Geo cabinet. He loves to stand on a stool and play with the buttons, > sticks, and to watch the games. Unfortunately he also loves to put > handprints on the plexiglass in front of the screen. > > What is a good way to clean the handprints off without damaging the > plexiglass (I have no idea how sensitive it is to cleaning fluids). > > Zane Gel Gloss is good for acrylics etc. Check the can but I would think it'd be fine for Plexiglass. Available in spray or pour bottle. BM From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Sun Feb 22 15:49:58 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:38 2005 Subject: lk401 keyboard protocol? Message-ID: <0402222149.AA23097@ivan.Harhan.ORG> der Mouse wrote: > As may be. Do they not have keyboards? Well, OK, I would argue that the keyboard of a 19th century typewriter is still an ASCII entry device. Any time you produce letter 'A', even if you handwrite it or type it on a 19th century typewriter, you are actually producing the fundamental symbol ("symbol" defined as "signal element" in communication theory) 1000001 in a roundabout way, whether you realise this or not. Kids who handwrite letters and 19th century people who typed on typewriters certainly don't/didn't realise that they are actually generating ASCII letters, but that's what they are fundamentally (see my previous message in response to Kevin). > I do? I don't know where it originated. Well, it's certainly more than 10 years old and on-topic for this list, so if I'm wrong on this, ClassicCmpers please correct me, but I think the Alt key originates at the time when people began to stray from the sanctity of the Terminal and started entertaining the fad of "personal computer" / "workstation". That's when they moved Esc and Ctrl from where the Gods and Goddesses of ASCII placed them (immediately to the left of 1 and A, respectively), thinking that people don't need them anymore. This is the shift in mentality that I am revolting against: previously everyone was required to know the ASCII chart by heart and everybody used Ctrl and Esc to enter special codes. Anyone who typed on a keyboard knew that he (yes, HE!) was sending CODES to the computer. Then the mentality changed to the current fucking M$ Word mentality, where the luser (a chick) knows nothing about Computer Science and only know "to invoke this function in Word, I press Alt-this..." > What _I_ dislike about the LK401 (and LK201, for that matter) is that > the those to be split into two keys. Let me guess... You want it like the VT100 keyboard (and all truly Classic ASCII keyboards of the Golden Age) where in that area you had 4 separate keys generating ASCII BS, Delete, CR, and LF, right? If so, I'm in perfect agreement! MS From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Sun Feb 22 15:51:47 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:38 2005 Subject: lk401 keyboard protocol? Message-ID: <0402222151.AA23105@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Patrick Finnegan wrote: > You mean like this? > http://www.bblindia.com/rs8.JPG > > Technically, this is also a keyboard, but isn't in any way character-set > related: > http://www.silogic.com/organ/keyboard.jpg Sorry, can't view JPEGs on VT320. MS From jpl15 at panix.com Sun Feb 22 15:53:46 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:38 2005 Subject: lk401 keyboard protocol? In-Reply-To: <200402222126.QAA08046@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> References: <0402222050.AA22970@ivan.Harhan.ORG> <200402222126.QAA08046@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: A poster, unidentified for purposes of this message, belched out the following flecks of sadly mis-informed disinformation: > > Typewriters were a passing fad of the 19th century. > > > > But when it comes to Alt, you gotta admit that it originates in the > > PC (PeeCee, pee sea, etc) world. > Well, the Scholes keyset has been with us from the late 1800s up to the present day - dang! I'm typing on one now! with all it's faults and foibles - it's the One We All Use. When it comes to the 'ALT' key - I gotta admit that I am openly chagrinned and depressed by the crud that folks spew forth w/out taking even a few seconds to just a tiny bit of Basic Research: http://asciitable.com/ And it has it's origins back in the 70s and the world of Remote Job Processing, where there became an increasing need for ALTernate character sets - as in APL f'rinstance. It's just amazing to this old curmudgeonly guy - the number of people who seem to believe that Bill Gates invented the computer and all it's software and protocols - oh yeah, except for those wacky Hippies over at Apple - but who uses that shit, anyway...? Here endeth this Sunday's Rant. Cheers John From vcf at siconic.com Sun Feb 22 15:57:21 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:38 2005 Subject: lk401 keyboard protocol? In-Reply-To: <0402222129.AA23040@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: Ok, your Pagan rants have gotten my dander up. I must object to this crap just as I would if some other religious zealout or nutball came on here and tried to espouse their religious views. On Sun, 22 Feb 2004, Michael Sokolov wrote: > 1. Every person on Earth must be required to know the fundamental principles of > Computer Science, including the principles of character coding. WHY? Why "must" everyone be required to know this? Is it not enough that child slaves have to endure their exploitation, but now they must also be required to study and memories the fundamental principles of a science that they will probably never utilize in any practical sense? > 2. People must realise (just like ancient pagans did) that codes are more Why the hell do we care what the ancient pagans realized in relation to computer science? Are you suggesting we also sacrifice a virgin upon our keyboards whenever we begin a new project? > primary and more fundamental than character shapes. To illustrate my point: > most people believe that letter 'A' is fundamentally a tent with a bar > between the slopes, and that 1000001 is one computer representation of it. > This is what I am challenging, I argue that letter 'A' is fundamentally > 1000001 and that the shape with two slopes and a bar between them is merely > one possible representation of this fundamental 7-bit code, a representation > that is a passing fad of a society that uses handwriting, printing, paper, > and other barbaric antiques like this instead of directly transmitting binary > codes from one computer or brain to another. Ok, until you're able to fund and develop a program to implant binary communication transmitters in the head of every living being on Earth, and furthermore somehow either convince every living being that this will be good for them or have enough power to enforce this modification, then perhaps your kooky premises are better left to the realm of science fiction. In summary, you've been watching too much Star Trek. > 3. Keyboards, just like all other tools, need to be viewed in this light: it is > not a device for entering a certain set of graphic characters, it is a device > for entering a certain set of codes in some charset. This is what the IFCTF > keyboard definition is all about. That's just fine and dandy and magical and mysterious, but of what practical use is it spending your time trying to enforce this definition? Wouldn't your time be better spent dancing amongst the trees under a full moon and building large, incomprehensible stone structures? The only people that like zealots are other like-minded zealots. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From doc at mdrconsult.com Sun Feb 22 16:00:54 2004 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:38 2005 Subject: lk401 keyboard protocol? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <961A9AFE-6582-11D8-A17D-000A95A6B97A@mdrconsult.com> On Feb 22, 2004, at 3:41 PM, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Sun, 22 Feb 2004, Kevin Handy wrote: > >> What do they call those things with all those buttens with letters on >> them? > > Yeah? What does a Pagan call a device outside the realm of their own > understanding? "Christian?" We usually call anything outside our realm of understanding "Cool..." Methinks you have that whole thing backwards. In my experience, it's members of The Big Three religions who are most likely to summarily label anything unfamiliar. Doc From jpl15 at panix.com Sun Feb 22 16:01:32 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:38 2005 Subject: lk401 keyboard protocol? In-Reply-To: <0402222149.AA23097@ivan.Harhan.ORG> References: <0402222149.AA23097@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: On Sun, 22 Feb 2004, Michael Sokolov wrote: > der Mouse wrote: > > > As may be. Do they not have keyboards? > > Well, OK, I would argue that the keyboard of a 19th century typewriter is still > an ASCII entry device. Any time you produce letter 'A', even if you handwrite ^^^^^ NO IT IS NOT!!! Jeeze Mike - do you not understand what ASCII means, or whatit does, or what it is for - on the most fundamental of levels? Or are ya just yankin' all our chains at once here.... ;} -OR- Are you smoking/sniffing/drinking/huffing any of a variety of Substances that may (or may not) have sufficient psychological and psychotropic manifestations that would permit you to deliver the several screeds that you have vouschafed unto us??? Enquiring minds.... Cheers John PS: I was gonna pick apart the rest of this crap - but I'v got some eBay auctions closing, so I must Divert... From pat at computer-refuge.org Sun Feb 22 16:01:59 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:38 2005 Subject: lk401 keyboard protocol? In-Reply-To: <0402222151.AA23105@ivan.Harhan.ORG> References: <0402222151.AA23105@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: <200402221701.59651.pat@computer-refuge.org> Michael Sokolov declared on Sunday 22 February 2004 04:51 pm: > Patrick Finnegan wrote: > > You mean like this? > > http://www.bblindia.com/rs8.JPG > > > > Technically, this is also a keyboard, but isn't in any way > > character-set related: > > http://www.silogic.com/organ/keyboard.jpg > > Sorry, can't view JPEGs on VT320. I was going to put what they were in the original email, but didn't think I felt like explaining my "joke". The first one is a collection of buttons (as in clothes) on a sheet of paper labelling them. The second aught to be obvious from the URL. Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From vcf at siconic.com Sun Feb 22 16:12:32 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:38 2005 Subject: lk401 keyboard protocol? In-Reply-To: <0402222149.AA23097@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: On Sun, 22 Feb 2004, Michael Sokolov wrote: > Well, OK, I would argue that the keyboard of a 19th century typewriter > is still an ASCII entry device. Any time you produce letter 'A', even if > you handwrite it or type it on a 19th century typewriter, you are > actually producing the fundamental symbol ("symbol" defined as "signal > element" in communication theory) 1000001 in a roundabout way, whether > you realise this or not. Kids who handwrite letters and 19th century > people who typed on typewriters certainly don't/didn't realise that they > are actually generating ASCII letters, but that's what they are > fundamentally (see my previous message in response to Kevin). Ok, so what Universal Truth can you point to that 1000001 is the binary representation for 'A'? Why isn't it 'B' or 'C' or Omega or Delta or Bunny Rabbit? Do you realize that the sequence of letters is totally and completely arbitrary? Do you realize you are espousing the worst of revisionist historian-like qualities? Do you expect us to really believe this nonsense that ASCII was ordained in the hieroglyphics emblazoned on the pyramids or whatever? Don't you know it's not good to mix drugs? > Well, it's certainly more than 10 years old and on-topic for this list, so if > I'm wrong on this Yes, you most certainly are. > ClassicCmpers please correct me, but I think the Alt key > originates at the time when people began to stray from the sanctity of the > Terminal and started entertaining the fad of "personal computer" / > "workstation". No, I think the ALT key came about because programmers wanted more unique keycodes to assign to functions. > That's when they moved Esc and Ctrl from where the Gods and > Goddesses of ASCII placed them (immediately to the left of 1 and A, > respectively), thinking that people don't need them anymore. This is the shift > in mentality that I am revolting against: previously everyone was required to > know the ASCII chart by heart and everybody used Ctrl and Esc to enter special Yes, why I remember in grade school having time to memorize my multiplication tables every day right after I spent 4-6 grueling hours memorizing the ASCII table. It was a requirement to move from grade to grade and you couldn't get into college without the ability to recite it forewards, backwards and sideways. It was also required to get a drivers license and to get married. Gee, how times have changed. Now, anyone who can merely pass a driving test can get a license, and just about everyone (except for siblings and first cousins, at least in this country) can get married. Imagine that! > codes. Anyone who typed on a keyboard knew that he (yes, HE!) was sending > CODES to the computer. Yes, everyone of my generation can immediately convert any 7-bit binary sequence to ASCII and vice-versa, within a split second. In fact, they don't even have to think about it. Those who were a bit slack in their studies as a child have to pull out computation aids, such as a calculator or a pen and pencil, and only the most wortless amongst us actually have the gall to pull out an ASCII chart, but we weed those people out of the gene pool (thank the Gods and Goddesses) so that they won't pollute our ASCII pureness. > Then the mentality changed to the current fucking M$ > Word mentality, where the luser (a chick) knows nothing about Computer Science > and only know "to invoke this function in Word, I press Alt-this..." So, are you saying all people who use MS Word are losers, and furthermore, girls (i.e. "chicks")? Will you look at the time? I've gotta go do my daily recititation of the ASCII table in front of an ancient oak and sacrifice a wildebeest so that good fortune and success will be visited upon me this season. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From jpl15 at panix.com Sun Feb 22 16:15:34 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:38 2005 Subject: lk401 keyboard protocol? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, 22 Feb 2004, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > [much amusing but nonetheless specious nonsence snipped] > to computer science? Are you suggesting we also sacrifice a virgin upon ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ the real problem with this scenario is *finding* one..... > our keyboards whenever we begin a new project? I would employ one of those transparent silicone membranes for keyboards used in wet/dirty/greasy industrial environments.... but am a bit over-fastidious when it come to my Percieved Religious Obligations... Cheers Abraham From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Sun Feb 22 16:27:51 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:38 2005 Subject: lk401 keyboard protocol? Message-ID: <0402222227.AA23304@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Folks, I realise that I have lost my argument and I'm sorry for starting this thread in the first place. I will not post another message in this thread. (Though I'm enjoying some of the really creative responses a few people have posted.) MS From jpl15 at panix.com Sun Feb 22 16:28:46 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:38 2005 Subject: lk401 keyboard protocol? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, 22 Feb 2004, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > Will you look at the time? I've gotta go do my daily recititation of the > ASCII table in front of an ancient oak and sacrifice a wildebeest so that ^^^^^^^^^^ MMMMMMMMM!! Bacon-cheese wildeburgers....! And I wonder just what All This means to those who espouse an ALTernate Lifestyle??? Cheers Nikki Tesla From rcini at optonline.net Sun Feb 22 16:37:12 2004 From: rcini at optonline.net (Richard A. Cini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:38 2005 Subject: Equipment upgrade in process - anyone need this? (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001b01c3f994$6ae05a70$8201a8c0@bbrdhveies50vd> Thanks to all...this equipment is spoken for. Rich Cini Collector of classic computers Build Master for the Altair32 Emulation Project Web site: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ /************************************************************/ From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Sun Feb 22 16:11:59 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:38 2005 Subject: lk401 keyboard protocol? In-Reply-To: <0402222149.AA23097@ivan.Harhan.ORG> References: <0402222149.AA23097@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: <200402222237.RAA08379@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> >> As may be. Do [typewriters] not have keyboards? > Well, OK, I would argue that the keyboard of a 19th century > typewriter is still an ASCII entry device. Even if it has buttons that produce characters not present in ASCII? (I've personally seen at least one such.) Michael, I greatly respect your technical competence. But you really need to tone down the zealotry, especially where it runs counter to the way the rest of the known world does things, or you will be - deservedly - marginalized for it regardless of whatever else of value you may have to offer. Perhaps that prospect doesn't bother you. Perhaps being Pure matters more than communication with other people. In that case, go right ahead. But I, for one, will then soon be mechanically ignoring you. > Any time you produce letter 'A', even if you handwrite it or type it > on a 19th century typewriter, you are actually producing the > fundamental symbol ("symbol" defined as "signal element" in > communication theory) 1000001 in a roundabout way, whether you > realise this or not. Do you actually know anything of the history of alphabetic writing? Do you know how utterly insane it is to try to consider ASCII primal, when anything significantly similar to the English alphabet is a relatively recent innovation? This stance is not even logically defensible, because it leaves no place for symbols that do not have ASCII codepoints, yet the only difference between (say) a handwritten A and a handwritten symbol of comparable complexity with no codepoint is that one has more widespread cultural and linguistic recognition and utility than the other. It also runs into problems where a single graphic symbol may correspond to various codepoints. (I'm thinking in particular of the line-and-two-arcs drawing typically read in English as a `B'. It could be any of at least three and probably more semantically distinct characters: think English, Russian, and Greek. For that matter, in the right context it could even be the number thirteen.) >> What _I_ dislike about the LK401 (and LK201, for that matter) is >> that the > each of those to be split into two keys. > Let me guess... You want it like the VT100 keyboard (and all truly > Classic ASCII keyboards of the Golden Age) where in that area you had > 4 separate keys generating ASCII BS, Delete, CR, and LF, right? Well, exactly what the keys generate doesn't matter (and indeed the LK201 doesn't generate ASCII either; that's a mapping performed by host software). I just want software to be able to distinguish between what on the LK401 are the left and right ends of those keys. I don't remember the VT100 keyboard well enough to say how close this is to that. As I said, it's a matter of what I'm used to. The LK[24]01 isn't it. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From jpl15 at panix.com Sun Feb 22 16:39:01 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:38 2005 Subject: lk401 keyboard protocol? In-Reply-To: <0402222227.AA23304@ivan.Harhan.ORG> References: <0402222227.AA23304@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: On Sun, 22 Feb 2004, Michael Sokolov wrote: > Folks, I realise that I have lost my argument and I'm sorry for starting this ^^^^^^^^ mind / senses / marbles / sense of direction / inner balance / connection with Reality / grasp of the Actual /faint tendrils of electro-mechanical communications understanding / .... :} sorry - had to take the shot.... Quite an amusing Sunday entertainment (And I do hope you know I'm [mostly] joking...) if horridly off-topic. And I won my eBay bid (A nice old Western Electric panel meter) so I'm happy. Now: where's that Obsidian Knife.... Cheers Axtlatoteoctlatltantltltltl From brad at heeltoe.com Sun Feb 22 16:49:34 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:38 2005 Subject: vax 730 console boot image file? Message-ID: <200402222249.i1MMnYb01282@mwave.heeltoe.com> In my quest to boot my vax 730 I ran into the gummer roller problem. I fixed that but my tu58 seems to be unhappy. As part of debugging it I made a little DB-9 adapter for the 10 pin header so I can run tu58sim and the tu58 emulator. The 730 appears to run the tu58 at 38400 baud and will talk to the tu58 simulator just fine. So now, naturally I'd like to try and give it some valid micro code :-) Does anyone have a file image of any sort of 730 console boot? I don't care if it's current, I just need something to test. I have a tape which claims to be current but I can't read it (yet). I'll debug the tu58 shortly but in the mean time I'd like to see if my R80 works :-) -brad From pkoning at equallogic.com Sun Feb 22 17:01:00 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:38 2005 Subject: Cleaning plexiglass References: Message-ID: <16441.13484.293000.826715@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Zane" == Zane H Healy writes: Zane> My son, who isn't even old enough to play video games, loves Zane> our Neo Geo cabinet. He loves to stand on a stool and play Zane> with the buttons, sticks, and to watch the games. Zane> Unfortunately he also loves to put handprints on the plexiglass Zane> in front of the screen. Zane> What is a good way to clean the handprints off without damaging Zane> the plexiglass (I have no idea how sensitive it is to cleaning Zane> fluids). I'd suggest dishwashing detergent (for manual dishwashing). Do NOT use alcohol. Alcohol is a pretty mild solvent and rarely damages plastics, but plexiglas is an exception; it turns cloudy. paul From pat at computer-refuge.org Sun Feb 22 17:07:06 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:38 2005 Subject: VAX 11/750 tu58 images (was Re: vax 730 console boot image file?) In-Reply-To: <200402222249.i1MMnYb01282@mwave.heeltoe.com> References: <200402222249.i1MMnYb01282@mwave.heeltoe.com> Message-ID: <200402221807.06338.pat@computer-refuge.org> Brad Parker declared on Sunday 22 February 2004 05:49 pm: > In my quest to boot my vax 730 I ran into the gummer roller problem. > I fixed that but my tu58 seems to be unhappy. As part of debugging > it I made a little DB-9 adapter for the 10 pin header so I can run > tu58sim and the tu58 emulator. > > The 730 appears to run the tu58 at 38400 baud and will talk to the > tu58 simulator just fine. So now, naturally I'd like to try and give > it some valid micro code :-) > > Does anyone have a file image of any sort of 730 console boot? I > don't care if it's current, I just need something to test. I don't have any images for the 11/730... but I too am searching for images - but for my 11/750. If anyone has images of tapes used on the 11/750, please let me know. Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Feb 22 17:23:18 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:38 2005 Subject: lk401 keyboard protocol? In-Reply-To: <40390D50.4020707@srv.net> from "Kevin Handy" at Feb 22, 4 01:13:04 pm Message-ID: > > Michael Sokolov wrote: > > >der Mouse wrote: > > > > > > > >>Where did you find this definition? > >> > >> > > > >It will be the IFCTF definition when I get around to posting it. Though it will > >say "ASCII or ASCII extension", and I'm sorry that I didn't make the last bit > >clear in my message you are replying to. > > > > > So those thinks plugged into IBM mainframes that look a lot like > keyboards, are not > keyboards, because they transmit EBCDIC? And those things on those old > teletypes > aren't either because they use BAUDOUT? I am typing this message on a flat thing with about 101 buttons on it. It connects to my PC by a serial link, but the data carried is not ASCII, or anything like it, the device sends 'scan codes'. The technical reference manual calls this thing a 'Keyboard'. I've always called it that too, and don't intend to change.... Incidentally, when looking at the switcjh matrix wiring of these keyboards-to-everyone-else devices, I've noticed that Some manufacturers wire the matrix so that the switch position is related to the keycode that's sent (this simplifies the encoding electronics or software driver) Others wire the matrix so that it corresponds to the physical position of the keys on the keyboard (this simplifies the PCB layout) Still others do neither (%deity knows why...) -tony From kittstr at access-4-free.com Sun Feb 22 00:47:33 2004 From: kittstr at access-4-free.com (Andrew Strouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:38 2005 Subject: Aargh...It never ends.. References: Message-ID: <000401c3f99c$1e882880$8dd1d63f@amscomputer> Sellam wrote: > (I'm amazed that there are fan pages for this show.) Why's that? I've got every episode and the 2 movies on VCD. Taped them off USA and TV Land. He did use a car battery charger and 2 half dollars to weld up a piston on an irrigation pump in episode 6, "Trumbo's World". And no, he didn't have a welding mask :-) Andrew Strouse ( who has just over-shown his geekyness) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vintage Computer Festival" > (I'm amazed that there are fan pages for this show.) From brad at heeltoe.com Sun Feb 22 17:44:50 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:38 2005 Subject: VAX 11/750 tu58 images (was Re: vax 730 console boot image file?) In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 22 Feb 2004 18:07:06 EST." <200402221807.06338.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: <200402222344.i1MNioG01655@mwave.heeltoe.com> Patrick Finnegan wrote: .. >I don't have any images for the 11/730... but I too am searching for >images - but for my 11/750. If anyone has images of tapes used on the >11/750, please let me know. I've seen archived email from folks claiming to be putting together a collection, on cd-rom, I believe. If I ever find such a thing I'll post it here. I'm sure someone out there has got them for the 750 & 730. Just a matter of finding them. I posted something on alt.sys.pdp11 also... -brad From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Sun Feb 22 17:50:09 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:38 2005 Subject: lk401 keyboard protocol? In-Reply-To: <200402222237.RAA08379@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of der Mouse > Sent: 22 February 2004 22:12 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: lk401 keyboard protocol? > > Perhaps that prospect doesn't bother you. Perhaps being Pure > matters more than communication with other people. In that > case, go right ahead. But I, for one, will then soon be > mechanically ignoring you. This is why I stopped helping him with the VT420 stuff. It might just be me, but I like being thanked for the help every now and then. That didn't happen in this case. Looking at the rest of the responses I'm glad I wasn't around today! Cheers w From curt at atarimuseum.com Sun Feb 22 17:49:06 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:38 2005 Subject: Cleaning plexiglass References: <000c01c3f98d$70d7c640$0200a8c0@look.ca> Message-ID: <006401c3f99e$75b39c00$1a02a8c0@starship1> Novus is also excellent too. Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Mahoney" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2004 4:46 PM Subject: Re: Cleaning plexiglass > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Zane H. Healy" > To: > Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2004 3:33 PM > Subject: Cleaning plexiglass > > > > My son, who isn't even old enough to play video games, loves our Neo > > Geo cabinet. He loves to stand on a stool and play with the buttons, > > sticks, and to watch the games. Unfortunately he also loves to put > > handprints on the plexiglass in front of the screen. > > > > What is a good way to clean the handprints off without damaging the > > plexiglass (I have no idea how sensitive it is to cleaning fluids). > > > > Zane > Gel Gloss is good for acrylics etc. Check the can but I would think it'd be > fine for Plexiglass. Available in spray or pour bottle. > > BM > From jcwren at jcwren.com Sun Feb 22 17:51:11 2004 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:38 2005 Subject: Aargh...It never ends.. In-Reply-To: <000401c3f99c$1e882880$8dd1d63f@amscomputer> References: <000401c3f99c$1e882880$8dd1d63f@amscomputer> Message-ID: <4039406F.4040108@jcwren.com> Andrew Strouse wrote: >Sellam wrote: > > >>(I'm amazed that there are fan pages for this show.) >> >> > >Why's that? I've got every episode and the 2 movies on VCD. Taped them off >USA and TV Land. He did use a car battery charger and 2 half dollars to >weld up a piston on an irrigation pump in episode 6, "Trumbo's World". And >no, he didn't have a welding mask :-) > [snip] The guy who came to weld the A/C compressor platform on to the back of my houseboat used a wire-feed MIG welder that was powered by two 12V batteries. Pretty cool little unit. < http://www.weldingmart.com/Qstore/p002031.htm > --jc From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Sun Feb 22 17:54:33 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:38 2005 Subject: lk401 keyboard protocol? Message-ID: <0402222354.AA23505@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Witchy wrote: > This is why I stopped helping him with the VT420 stuff. It might just be me, > but I like being thanked for the help every now and then. That didn't happen > in this case. Witchy, I'm sorry that I didn't thank you enough. I just happened to hook up my VT340 (for a different unrelated experiment) and accidentally realised that it also supports hex compose, which I then used to figure out the answers to all my questions. But thanks for your earlier help! MS From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Sun Feb 22 17:59:19 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:38 2005 Subject: American Dream, was Re: "This old SGI" page - anyone have a copy? In-Reply-To: <4039098A.A5C36605@rain.org> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Marvin Johnston > Sent: 22 February 2004 19:57 > To: General@jupiter.easily.co.uk; > Discussion@jupiter.easily.co.uk:On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: American Dream, was Re: "This old SGI" page - anyone > have a copy? > > Yup, but we can still fight. I just found out it is against > the Santa Barbara city ordinance to park in your own driveway > more than 48 hours as they then consider it to be storage. > These people are insane!!! Sorry, can't spend too long on a reply....laughing too much..... w From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Sun Feb 22 18:02:59 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:38 2005 Subject: Cleaning plexiglass In-Reply-To: <006401c3f99e$75b39c00$1a02a8c0@starship1> References: <000c01c3f98d$70d7c640$0200a8c0@look.ca> <006401c3f99e$75b39c00$1a02a8c0@starship1> Message-ID: <200402230004.TAA08867@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> >>> What is a good way to clean the handprints off without damaging the >>> plexiglass (I have no idea how sensitive it is to cleaning fluids). >> Gel Gloss [...] > Novus [...] I don't get it. Fingerprints are basically just skin oils; what's wrong with soap and warm water? /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From curt at atarimuseum.com Sun Feb 22 18:18:27 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:38 2005 Subject: Cleaning plexiglass In-Reply-To: <200402230004.TAA08867@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> References: <000c01c3f98d$70d7c640$0200a8c0@look.ca> <006401c3f99e$75b39c00$1a02a8c0@starship1> <200402230004.TAA08867@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <403946D3.50207@atarimuseum.com> Plexiglass has the distinct habit of gettting scratches very easily, Gel Gloss and Novus not only clean the surface, they also fill/remove minor scratches making the surface look as good as possible. Curt der Mouse wrote: >>>>What is a good way to clean the handprints off without damaging the >>>>plexiglass (I have no idea how sensitive it is to cleaning fluids). >>>> >>>> >>>Gel Gloss [...] >>> >>> >>Novus [...] >> >> > >I don't get it. Fingerprints are basically just skin oils; what's >wrong with soap and warm water? > >/~\ The ASCII der Mouse >\ / Ribbon Campaign > X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca >/ \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B > > > -- Curt Vendel & Karl Morris ----------------------------------------------------------------------- The Atari Museum http://www.atarimuseum.com The Atari Explorer http://www.atari-explorer.com From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Sun Feb 22 18:23:35 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:38 2005 Subject: lk401 keyboard protocol? In-Reply-To: <0402222354.AA23505@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Michael Sokolov > Sent: 22 February 2004 23:55 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: lk401 keyboard protocol? > > Witchy, I'm sorry that I didn't thank you enough. I just > happened to hook up my VT340 (for a different unrelated > experiment) and accidentally realised that it also supports > hex compose, which I then used to figure out the answers to > all my questions. But thanks for your earlier help! No problem Michael, but I hope you now realise that this is a community of like-minded individuals who are as much into helping each other as they are into helping themselves. Let's continue sharing our information for the good of the group and the hobby! Cheers -- Adrian/Witchy Owner & Webmaster, Binary Dinosaurs www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Sun Feb 22 18:17:32 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:38 2005 Subject: Aargh...It never ends.. References: <000401c3f99c$1e882880$8dd1d63f@amscomputer> <4039406F.4040108@jcwren.com> Message-ID: <4039469C.6070809@jetnet.ab.ca> J.C. Wren wrote: > The guy who came to weld the A/C compressor platform on to the back > of my houseboat used a wire-feed MIG welder that was powered by two 12V > batteries. Pretty cool little unit. < > http://www.weldingmart.com/Qstore/p002031.htm > MY favorite tech gadget has to be the portiable/personal helicopter from a early James Bond Movie. From vcf at siconic.com Sun Feb 22 18:30:55 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:38 2005 Subject: Aargh...It never ends.. In-Reply-To: <000401c3f99c$1e882880$8dd1d63f@amscomputer> Message-ID: On Sun, 22 Feb 2004, Andrew Strouse wrote: > Sellam wrote: > > (I'm amazed that there are fan pages for this show.) > > Why's that? I've got every episode and the 2 movies on VCD. Taped them off > USA and TV Land. He did use a car battery charger and 2 half dollars to > weld up a piston on an irrigation pump in episode 6, "Trumbo's World". And > no, he didn't have a welding mask :-) Why? Because in the past month I happened to catch snippets of two different episodes and found them to be so mortally cheesy as to wonder how it ever made it into the 3rd, 4th, or even 5th and 6th season, and what I ever saw in them. But that's what happens to any good show. It starts to go downhill after a while. When I was watching it back in the day, I remember MacGyver explaining everything he was doing in a voiceover, which was very educational. In the episodes I saw, he was just doing stupid things like trying to remove fifty year old dynamite from a hundred year old shed and trying now to fall through the floor boards and thus set off the dynamite. Why didn't he do something MacGyver-like, such as finding some nearby plants with the right neurtralizing elements and concoct a substance that he could then spray onto the dynamite using a spray bottle that he manufactured out of a bicycle inner tube? That's what the OLD MacGyver I remember would've done. I forget why they needed to remove the dynamite in the first place. In fact, there really was no reason to remove the dynamite, other than to add a lame cliff-hanger scene to the show. Anyway, it's probably better that I don't try to catch any more episodes of MacGyver. I guess my life now is so much more exciting than it used to be that MacGyver now seems lame in comparison. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Sun Feb 22 19:09:27 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:38 2005 Subject: vax 730 console boot image file? Message-ID: <0402230109.AA23625@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Brad Parker wrote: > Does anyone have a file image of any sort of 730 console boot? I don't > care if it's current, I just need something to test. As I wrote before, I have a mutilated (by VMS) 730 console tape image. Since it's mutilated, it's not on my FTP site right now. But it's still better than nothing, so I'll dig it up. > I have a tape which claims to be current but I can't read it (yet). > I'll debug the tu58 shortly [...] When you do, please read a block image of your tape, as I really need a virgin block-for-block image of an original 730 console tape that is not mutilated by VMS EXCHANGE. MS From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Sun Feb 22 19:12:06 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:38 2005 Subject: VAX 11/750 tu58 images Message-ID: <0402230112.AA23639@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Patrick Finnegan wrote: > I don't have any images for the 11/730... but I too am searching for > images - but for my 11/750. If anyone has images of tapes used on the > 11/750, please let me know. Original DEC: ifctfvax.Harhan.ORG:/pub/UNIX/support/mdec/750console For UNIX: ifctfvax.Harhan.ORG:/pub/UNIX/4.3BSD-Quasijarus0c/cassette.Z MS From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Sun Feb 22 19:30:13 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:38 2005 Subject: vax 730 console boot image file? Message-ID: <0402230130.AA23677@ivan.Harhan.ORG> I wrote: : As I wrote before, I have a mutilated (by VMS) 730 console tape image. Since : it's mutilated, it's not on my FTP site right now. But it's still better than : nothing, so I'll dig it up. It is now on my FTP site in: ifctfvax.Harhan.ORG:/pub/UNIX/support/mdec/730console.v58 MS From brad at heeltoe.com Sun Feb 22 19:35:35 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:38 2005 Subject: vax 730 console boot image file? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 22 Feb 2004 17:09:27 PST." <0402230109.AA23625@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: <200402230135.i1N1ZZ602333@mwave.heeltoe.com> Michael Sokolov wrote: > >As I wrote before, I have a mutilated (by VMS) 730 console tape image. Since >it's mutilated, it's not on my FTP site right now. But it's still better than >nothing, so I'll dig it up. thanks! even a multilated image would be better than nothing :-) >> I have a tape which claims to be current but I can't read it (yet). >> I'll debug the tu58 shortly [...] > >When you do, please read a block image of your tape, as I really need a virgin >block-for-block image of an original 730 console tape that is not mutilated by >VMS EXCHANGE. Will do. That's been my plan from the start. I got new rollers but the drive seems to be broken in some way and needs debugging. I'd like to at least see if the cpu is ok before I get started on that. -brad From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Sun Feb 22 20:01:54 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:38 2005 Subject: REPOST: Re: VAX 11/750 tu58 images Message-ID: <0402230201.AA23739@ivan.Harhan.ORG> (This one appears to have fallen through the cracks.) Patrick Finnegan wrote: > I don't have any images for the 11/730... but I too am searching for > images - but for my 11/750. If anyone has images of tapes used on the > 11/750, please let me know. Original DEC: ifctfvax.Harhan.ORG:/pub/UNIX/support/mdec/750console For UNIX: ifctfvax.Harhan.ORG:/pub/UNIX/4.3BSD-Quasijarus0c/cassette.Z MS From pat at computer-refuge.org Sun Feb 22 20:26:30 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:39 2005 Subject: REPOST: Re: VAX 11/750 tu58 images In-Reply-To: <0402230201.AA23739@ivan.Harhan.ORG> References: <0402230201.AA23739@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: <200402222126.30322.pat@computer-refuge.org> On Sunday 22 February 2004 21:01, Michael Sokolov wrote: > (This one appears to have fallen through the cracks.) > > Patrick Finnegan wrote: > > I don't have any images for the 11/730... but I too am searching > > for images - but for my 11/750. If anyone has images of tapes used > > on the 11/750, please let me know. > > Original DEC: > > ifctfvax.Harhan.ORG:/pub/UNIX/support/mdec/750console > > For UNIX: > > ifctfvax.Harhan.ORG:/pub/UNIX/4.3BSD-Quasijarus0c/cassette.Z Actually, it did get set out to classiccmp... it looks like about an hour ago it got sent out. Thanks alot, btw. Now I've gotta set up a serial line to the TU58 connection on my 11/750 to probably a PC to run tu58sim on for now. I just have to find the pinout of that connection in one of the many PDF's I've downloaded on it. Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Feb 22 20:30:42 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:39 2005 Subject: lk401 keyboard protocol? In-Reply-To: References: <0402222149.AA23097@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: <20040222181746.S77297@newshell.lmi.net> On Sun, 22 Feb 2004, Michael Sokolov wrote: > Well, OK, I would argue that the keyboard of a 19th century typewriter is still > an ASCII entry device. Any time you produce letter 'A', even if you handwrite HARRUMPH! Young punks. Never heard of Hollerith? The early user interfaces were all point and grunt. Then they developed icons (and built pyramids). Later on, they went to phoneme based character sets in most of the world, with a few exceptions, such as Kanji. It was only thirty years ago that they switched from EBCDIC, etc. to ASCII. And twenty years ago that they did a really great job of going back to sub-literate point and grunt computing. (remember, "Hey! We were watching that!") ASCII is an imperceptible ethnocentric blip in history. Although ASCII had an impressive rate of acceptance, its longevity does not compare even with Hollerith, EBCDIC, Murray, or Baudot. UNICODE is NOT the answer; but it is at least an acknowledgement of the existence of the problem. On Sun, 22 Feb 2004, John Lawson wrote: > Are you smoking/sniffing/drinking/huffing any of a variety of > Substances that may (or may not) have sufficient psychological and > psychotropic manifestations that would permit you to deliver the several > screeds that you have vouschafed unto us??? ... AND NOT SHARING??!?? From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Sun Feb 22 20:35:06 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:39 2005 Subject: vax 730 console boot image file? In-Reply-To: <0402230109.AA23625@ivan.Harhan.ORG> References: <0402230109.AA23625@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: <20040223023506.GA13796@bos7.spole.gov> On Sun, Feb 22, 2004 at 05:09:27PM -0800, Michael Sokolov wrote: > When you do, please read a block image of your tape, as I really need a virgin > block-for-block image of an original 730 console tape that is not mutilated by > VMS EXCHANGE. Why? We always "mutiliated" ours. The 8080 (8085?) on the 11/730 console board caches the tape directory, so if you put the files on the tape in the order they are expected, it loads *lots* faster (like 2 min vs 15 min). I had a script to build consoles from the VMS side using Exchange. We never used virgin DEC-written TU58s. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 23-Feb-2004 02:29 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -29.5 F (-34.2 C) Windchill -80.8 F (-62.7 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 17.1 kts Grid 061 Barometer 695.2 mb (10057. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From dvcorbin at optonline.net Sun Feb 22 20:43:54 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:39 2005 Subject: lk401 keyboard protocol? In-Reply-To: <20040222181746.S77297@newshell.lmi.net> Message-ID: >>>Never heard of Hollerith? Everybody, remember Hollerith's 39th Birthday is later this week!!!!!!!! From brad at heeltoe.com Sun Feb 22 20:46:49 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:39 2005 Subject: REPOST: Re: VAX 11/750 tu58 images In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 22 Feb 2004 21:26:30 EST." <200402222126.30322.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: <200402230246.i1N2kng02655@mwave.heeltoe.com> Patrick Finnegan wrote: > >Thanks alot, btw. Now I've gotta set up a serial line to the TU58 >connection on my 11/750 to probably a PC to run tu58sim on for now. I >just have to find the pinout of that connection in one of the many >PDF's I've downloaded on it. If it helps, I made a linux version of the tu58 emulator. No big deal, just the standard "sgtty to termios" conversion and some header file changes. Also I have a little TTL/RS-232 board I make for hacking ceiva picture frames and I hacked one since it has a DB-9 and a 10 pin header - perfect for the TU58. I'll make one for you if you like; I just take out the converter IC and add 3 wires. (maybe trade for a tu58 cart? :-) -brad From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Sun Feb 22 20:54:19 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:39 2005 Subject: lk401 keyboard protocol? Message-ID: <0402230254.AA23896@ivan.Harhan.ORG> David V. Corbin wrote: > Everybody, remember Hollerith's 39th Birthday is later this week!!!!!!!! 39th? Shouldn't it be older than that? MS From jpl15 at panix.com Sun Feb 22 20:58:40 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:39 2005 Subject: lk401 keyboard protocol? In-Reply-To: <0402230254.AA23896@ivan.Harhan.ORG> References: <0402230254.AA23896@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: On Sun, 22 Feb 2004, Michael Sokolov wrote: > David V. Corbin wrote: > > > Everybody, remember Hollerith's 39th Birthday is later this week!!!!!!!! > > 39th? Shouldn't it be older than that? No; they're very near Rochester. Cheers John From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Feb 22 21:00:55 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:39 2005 Subject: lk401 keyboard protocol? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040222184942.H77297@newshell.lmi.net> > >>>Never heard of Hollerith? On Sun, 22 Feb 2004, David V. Corbin wrote: > Everybody, remember Hollerith's 39th Birthday is later this week!!!!!!!! 39 years ago??????? That's about when I started learning to program - hardly a significant event! 20 years later, punch cards were vanishing. Herman Hollerith lived from 1860 to 1929. ? He was best known for his punch card processing of the 1890 census. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Sun Feb 22 21:05:55 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:39 2005 Subject: lk401 keyboard protocol? Message-ID: <0402230305.AA23938@ivan.Harhan.ORG> John Lawson wrote: > > 39th? Shouldn't it be older than that? > > No; they're very near Rochester. But there already were IBM Hollerith machines in World War II, weren't there? I even remember reading about Nazis using them for bean counting in their camps. So how can it only be 39 years old? WW2 ended in 1945, so it must be at least 2004-1945=59 years old. MS From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Sun Feb 22 21:06:52 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:39 2005 Subject: Unknown QBUS board In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040223030652.GA13835@bos7.spole.gov> On Sun, Feb 22, 2004 at 02:32:50PM -0700, CRC wrote: > On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 11:04:03 +0100, Sebastian Br?ckner > schreibt: > > >A few month ago I acquired a VAXstation 3200. > > > >There is one QBUS card in the system that I can't identify. > >As far as I know the VAX has been used for measurement data aquisition > >in a physics laboratory. > > You have the Qbus part (KSC2922) of a KSC2922/3922, Qbus CAMAC > interface. CAMAC (Computer Automated Measurement And Control) is an > instrumentation system extensively used in the nuclear/high energy > area. Interesting (to me at least... we have numerous CAMAC crates here at Pole, but the last MicroVAX was turned off several years ago). > What you need now is to find a CAMAC bin and the other end of that > interface and you can become a nuclear terrorist ;)) Or a neutrino telescope operator (presuming you have several thousand cubic meters of pure water or ice in your back yard. :-) -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 23-Feb-2004 03:00 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -30.6 F (-34.8 C) Windchill -73.8 F (-58.8 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 13.3 kts Grid 056 Barometer 695.1 mb (10061. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Sun Feb 22 21:10:44 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:39 2005 Subject: vax 730 console boot image file? Message-ID: <0402230310.AA23963@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Ethan Dicks wrote: > Why? We always "mutiliated" ours. The 8080 (8085?) on the 11/730 console > board caches the tape directory, so if you put the files on the tape in > the order they are expected, it loads *lots* faster (like 2 min vs 15 min). > > I had a script to build consoles from the VMS side using Exchange. We never > used virgin DEC-written TU58s. What you did is perfectly reasonable for *use*. It is not appropriate for history preservation. For the latter purpose one needs a sector image of a virgin DEC original TU58, and anything else can be described as mutilated for this purpose. MS From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Sun Feb 22 21:14:48 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:39 2005 Subject: REPOST: Re: VAX 11/750 tu58 images Message-ID: <0402230314.AA23993@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Brad Parker wrote: > If it helps, I made a linux version of the tu58 emulator. No big deal, > just the standard "sgtty to termios" conversion and some header file > changes. Where can I get the original sgtty version for those who prefer sgtty to termios? What OS is it for? (I don't currently have a need for TU58 emulator, but hearing talk about changing sgtty to termios just made me jump up and scream "I want sgtty!!!") MS From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Feb 22 21:31:29 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:39 2005 Subject: Hollerith (was: lk401 keyboard protocol? In-Reply-To: <0402230305.AA23938@ivan.Harhan.ORG> References: <0402230305.AA23938@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: <20040222192429.W77297@newshell.lmi.net> > > > 39th? Shouldn't it be older than that? On Sun, 22 Feb 2004, Michael Sokolov wrote: > But there already were IBM Hollerith machines in World War II, weren't there? > I even remember reading about Nazis using them for bean counting in their camps. > So how can it only be 39 years old? WW2 ended in 1945, so it must be at least > 2004-1945=59 years old. Yes, young ones. The 1890 census was, indeed, before World War II. Hollerith Tabulating Company was absorbed in about 1915 into Calculating-Tabulating-Recording Co., which changed name to IBM in about 1925 -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Sun Feb 22 21:36:09 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:39 2005 Subject: vax 730 console boot image file? In-Reply-To: <0402230310.AA23963@ivan.Harhan.ORG> References: <0402230310.AA23963@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: <20040223033609.GB13835@bos7.spole.gov> On Sun, Feb 22, 2004 at 07:10:44PM -0800, Michael Sokolov wrote: > Ethan Dicks wrote: > > I had a script to build consoles from the VMS side using Exchange. We never > > used virgin DEC-written TU58s. > > What you did is perfectly reasonable for *use*. It is not appropriate for > history preservation. For the latter purpose one needs a sector image of a > virgin DEC original TU58, and anything else can be described as mutilated for > this purpose. I suppose that's true. I thought you were just trying to boot your VAX. -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 23-Feb-2004 03:30 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -29.5 F (-34.2 C) Windchill -76.7 F (-60.4 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 15.1 kts Grid 042 Barometer 695.2 mb (10057. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From pat at computer-refuge.org Sun Feb 22 21:50:29 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:39 2005 Subject: REPOST: Re: VAX 11/750 tu58 images In-Reply-To: <0402230314.AA23993@ivan.Harhan.ORG> References: <0402230314.AA23993@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: <200402222250.29375.pat@computer-refuge.org> On Sunday 22 February 2004 22:14, Michael Sokolov wrote: > Brad Parker wrote: > > If it helps, I made a linux version of the tu58 emulator. No big > > deal, just the standard "sgtty to termios" conversion and some > > header file changes. Brad: Thanks, but I've aparently got a copy that I've "fixed up" to use on Linux already. I'd forgotten about it until I went looking for where I put my copy of VTserver. > Where can I get the original sgtty version for those who prefer sgtty > to termios? What OS is it for? http://www.google.com/search?q=tu58sim I hope you have Lynx at least ;) > (I don't currently have a need for TU58 emulator, but hearing talk > about changing sgtty to termios just made me jump up and scream "I > want sgtty!!!") You've got issues, man. Either that, or need to lay off the pipe a bit.. Jeeze. You know, change *is* sometimes a good thing (not speaking to this particular example, but you seem to be stuck a bit in 1984 sometimes). Of course, I'm one of those evil people that likes their arrow keys to be usable in their shell (bash) and editor (vim), finds a use for machines that can display/edit high-res pictures and video, etc. I still enjoy playing with RT-11 on my PDP-11, but I realize that it can't be the be-all end-all, and that my PC (and UltraSparc, Alpha, PowerPC, POWER, etc) machines do have some very good uses. It's hard for me to "multitask" with a VT220, etc the same way I can with a GUI. Sigh. Ok, I had to get that off my chest. Now, back to the VAXen. Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From blstuart at bellsouth.net Sun Feb 22 22:10:36 2004 From: blstuart at bellsouth.net (blstuart@bellsouth.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:39 2005 Subject: Hollerith (was: lk401 keyboard protocol? In-Reply-To: Your message of Sun, 22 Feb 2004 19:31:29 -0800 (PST) . <20040222192429.W77297@newshell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <20040223041743.NUBS1898.imf19aec.mail.bellsouth.net@bellsouth.net> >> > > 39th? Shouldn't it be older than that? Methinks ol' Herman must have been born on February 29, 1848. Brian L. Stuart From cisin at xenosoft.com Sun Feb 22 22:37:04 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:39 2005 Subject: Hollerith (was: lk401 keyboard protocol? In-Reply-To: <20040223041743.NUBS1898.imf19aec.mail.bellsouth.net@bellsouth.net> References: <20040223041743.NUBS1898.imf19aec.mail.bellsouth.net@bellsouth.net> Message-ID: <20040222202842.V77297@newshell.lmi.net> On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 blstuart@bellsouth.net wrote: > >> > > 39th? Shouldn't it be older than that? > Methinks ol' Herman must have been born on February 29, 1848. Feb 29, 1860. Therefore, 35th birthday (1900 was NOT a leap year) Some 1890 ASCII keyboards: http://www.computer.org/history/development/graphics/1890hol1.jpg The reason why the 1890 census was expected to take too long to process without Hollerith was: A) There were too many dinosaurs to count B) Volts flowed slower in those days C) They were using MICROS~1 software D) There was a shortage of 1s to use in making binary E) The need to invent hanging chad From blstuart at bellsouth.net Sun Feb 22 22:52:04 2004 From: blstuart at bellsouth.net (blstuart@bellsouth.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:39 2005 Subject: Hollerith (was: lk401 keyboard protocol? In-Reply-To: Your message of Sun, 22 Feb 2004 20:37:04 -0800 (PST) . <20040222202842.V77297@newshell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <20040223045912.BTXH4980.imf24aec.mail.bellsouth.net@bellsouth.net> In message <20040222202842.V77297@newshell.lmi.net>, Fred Cisin writes: >On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 blstuart@bellsouth.net wrote: >> >> > > 39th? Shouldn't it be older than that? >> Methinks ol' Herman must have been born on February 29, 1848. > >Feb 29, 1860. > >Therefore, 35th birthday (1900 was NOT a leap year) DOH (accompanied by the distinctive sound of a palm and a forehead making rapid contact)! And afer all the times I've covered the leap year example in class, how could I have forgotten that. Of course, since I was working from 39th birthday, I would have ended up with 1844 which would still have been off. >The reason why the 1890 census was expected to take too long >to process without Hollerith was: >A) There were too many dinosaurs to count >B) Volts flowed slower in those days >C) They were using MICROS~1 software >D) There was a shortage of 1s to use in making binary >E) The need to invent hanging chad Gee I thought that it was because they were being sued because the idea of counting people violated SCO's intellectual property. BLS From vcf at siconic.com Sun Feb 22 23:00:32 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:39 2005 Subject: REPOST: Re: VAX 11/750 tu58 images In-Reply-To: <200402222250.29375.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: On Sun, 22 Feb 2004, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > It's hard for me to "multitask" with a VT220, etc the same way I can > with a GUI. Well, you can "multitask" on a DEC VT520 (multiple session support plus 3 interfaces on the back). I still have a few left I'm selling for $25 plus shipping. Inquire within ;) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From waltje at pdp11.nl Mon Feb 23 01:02:53 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:39 2005 Subject: lk401 keyboard protocol? In-Reply-To: <0402222050.AA22970@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: On Sun, 22 Feb 2004, Michael Sokolov wrote: > der Mouse wrote: > > > Where did you find this definition? > > It will be the IFCTF definition when I get around to posting it. Though it will > say "ASCII or ASCII extension", and I'm sorry that I didn't make the last bit > clear in my message you are replying to. > > > (I suppose typewriters old enough > > to not contain computers don't have keyboards?) > > Typewriters were a passing fad of the 19th century. Computers have been around > for billions of years and will be around for billions of years to come. Michael, you can stop taking those pills, or whatever you're currently on... --f From vcf at siconic.com Mon Feb 23 01:36:36 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:39 2005 Subject: Trying to ID odd board Message-ID: I've got a PC ISA board here that is interesting and I'm trying to identify it. The only markings of note on the board are Okidata 21025. There is a daughterboard fitted to some sockets on the main board and it has markings of "OKI KV96-X8D" and "PU1036-4924". The main board has an Intel i960, and two SIMM slots (populated). It's also got two OKI chips with the following markings: OKI ATC IPC Rev.2.0 MSMI0S0980-014 OKI ATC HCC Rev.2.0 MSMI0S0300-018 The backplate has 2 RJ14 jacks and a DA-15 (er, the connector is actually bigger than an A shell, like a Mac video connector). It also has an audio jack. It could be a modem. It could be a voice board. It might be both. What is it? Anyone? Anyone? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Mon Feb 23 01:47:35 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:39 2005 Subject: Pagin John Willis Message-ID: John, I've been trying to get a hold of you and you aren't responding to my messages. Before I give up on you altogether I want to make sure it isn't because you are ignoring me but rather because perhaps you aren't receiving my messages. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Mon Feb 23 04:17:38 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:39 2005 Subject: Flash mob computing Message-ID: Interesting concept: get a bunch of people together who all have at least a 1.3Ghz P-III (or AMD equivalent) laptop with at least 256MB RAM and a 100baseT network connection and hook them all together to try to get onto the list of the world's 500 fastest supercomputers: http://www.flashmobcomputing.org/ Maybe I'm behind the times, but I don't think that many people can afford such a laptop right around now. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From nico at farumdata.dk Mon Feb 23 05:01:18 2004 From: nico at farumdata.dk (Nico de Jong) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:39 2005 Subject: Everex EV-831 References: <200401030646.i036k6CZ022224@spies.com> Message-ID: <000c01c3f9fc$5eccc9e0$2201a8c0@finans> I've tried to find DOS drivers for this QIC-36 card, but as yet to no avail. Could someone give me an idea on where to find one ? I've only seen some Unix and BSD drivers. Any ehlp would be appreciated From dvcorbin at optonline.net Mon Feb 23 05:22:22 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:39 2005 Subject: Hollerith (was: lk401 keyboard protocol? In-Reply-To: <20040223041743.NUBS1898.imf19aec.mail.bellsouth.net@bellsouth.net> Message-ID: Exactly! >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org >>> [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of >>> blstuart@bellsouth.net >>> Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2004 11:11 PM >>> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts >>> Subject: Re: Hollerith (was: lk401 keyboard protocol? >>> >>> >> > > 39th? Shouldn't it be older than that? >>> >>> Methinks ol' Herman must have been born on February 29, 1848. >>> >>> Brian L. Stuart >>> From teoz at neo.rr.com Mon Feb 23 06:25:39 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:39 2005 Subject: Flash mob computing References: Message-ID: <002f01c3fa08$276f3df0$0500fea9@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vintage Computer Festival" To: "Classic Computers Mailing List" Sent: Monday, February 23, 2004 5:17 AM Subject: Flash mob computing > > Interesting concept: get a bunch of people together who all have at least > a 1.3Ghz P-III (or AMD equivalent) laptop with at least 256MB RAM and a > 100baseT network connection and hook them all together to try to get onto > the list of the world's 500 fastest supercomputers: > > http://www.flashmobcomputing.org/ > > Maybe I'm behind the times, but I don't think that many people can afford > such a laptop right around now. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival Unfortunately the way things work is that some people (that normally would have) cant afford one while others can buy two if they desire. Last Christmas the high tech stores had a great year while the cheaper stores had a very bad year. I am still waiting for the recovery myself. From brianmahoney at look.ca Mon Feb 23 06:30:19 2004 From: brianmahoney at look.ca (Brian Mahoney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:39 2005 Subject: Flash mob computing References: Message-ID: <000d01c3fa08$de6be080$0200a8c0@look.ca> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vintage Computer Festival" To: "Classic Computers Mailing List" Sent: Monday, February 23, 2004 5:17 AM Subject: Flash mob computing > > Interesting concept: get a bunch of people together who all have at least > a 1.3Ghz P-III (or AMD equivalent) laptop with at least 256MB RAM and a > 100baseT network connection and hook them all together to try to get onto > the list of the world's 500 fastest supercomputers: > > http://www.flashmobcomputing.org/ > > Maybe I'm behind the times, but I don't think that many people can afford > such a laptop right around now. Maybe not laptops but there are plenty of luggables. With the dawn of LAN gaming parties, thousands of young folks, used to be yuppies, have powerful small computers that are designed for easy transport to these parties. There is even one pre-made model with a flip-out 17" LCD screen, the MaxPac by MaxVision (3.2Ghz, 1 Gig memory. Add to this the companies that make very small cases with handles and factory made with fast video and 5.1 sound (all you add is the CPU and the RAM) , ie. Shuttle, and you'll see how this idea isn't so far fetched. Actually a major manufacturer, forget whether it was hardware or software, runs a gigantic LAN party with big prizes every year in, I believe, LA. where hundreds show up with their luggables and play games. I'd predict that the largest group to get into this would be a LAN party gaming group. I'll show up with my Kaypro. BM From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Feb 23 07:21:24 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:39 2005 Subject: lk401 keyboard protocol? In-Reply-To: References: <0402222050.AA22970@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040223082124.008c06d0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 08:02 AM 2/23/04 +0100, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > >Michael, you can stop taking those pills, or whatever you're currently >on... Or at least share them with the rest of us! Joe From brad at heeltoe.com Mon Feb 23 07:46:52 2004 From: brad at heeltoe.com (Brad Parker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:39 2005 Subject: Flash mob computing In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 23 Feb 2004 07:30:19 EST." <000d01c3fa08$de6be080$0200a8c0@look.ca> Message-ID: <200402231346.i1NDkqw05299@mwave.heeltoe.com> >> >> http://www.flashmobcomputing.org/ >> >> Maybe I'm behind the times, but I don't think that many people can afford >> such a laptop right around now. Huh. maybe I'm out of touch but I thought it was *hard* to find laptop slower than 1.5Ghz or with less than 512mb and 100base-t. I bought an hp laptop well over a year ago and it was 1.5g, 512m w/40gb. And it was about $2100 as I recall. Perhaps that's concidered a lot for a laptop. I thought it was in the middle. -brad From esharpe at uswest.net Mon Feb 23 08:14:10 2004 From: esharpe at uswest.net (ed sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:39 2005 Subject: Heath H-8 on eBay References: Message-ID: <001701c3fa17$4ec98f90$c2956d44@SONYDIGITALED> I think this went for a pretty reasonable price eh? ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Lawson" To: Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2004 9:02 PM Subject: Heath H-8 on eBay > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2788264325&category=4193 > > > so far $150 - about a day to go. > > Cheers > > John > > > From jfoust at threedee.com Mon Feb 23 07:37:10 2004 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:39 2005 Subject: Greedy E-bay idiots! In-Reply-To: <002b01c3ec68$ea827d00$0500fea9@game> References: <200402052239.59025.pat@computer-refuge.org> <002b01c3ec68$ea827d00$0500fea9@game> Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20040223072700.066efe90@pc> At 10:23 PM 2/5/2004, Teo Zenios wrote: >He might have no idea what he has, but he knows you will pony up $2,500 for >it so maybe $4,000 might be reasonable to somebody else. You might call him >greedy, but I don't see why he would be stupid? eBay has been around for >quite a few years and more people are listing items (and selling them) now >then every year before so somebody is making some cash (besides UPS, USPS, >and Fedex anyway). eBay's short-term auction model works well for all parties if the items sell quickly. They're missing an opportunity for items that don't sell quickly, but that people want to sell. Based on my proven inability to come up with an idea that someone else isn't already milking, there must be an auction site like that. It would be more like Sanford & Son - a digital junkyard - than an auction house. Give an easy Access / SQL / XML interface for uploading, and let the parts warehouses list what they have. Let the items sit there until sold, and only then would I pay the listing fee. Encourage junkyards of whatever type to list their inventory and keep it current. Heavens, let me search reliably by barcode or parts number. Maybe this isn't even a centralized service like eBay. Maybe it's a distributed service, spidering a database that my web site advertises. Maybe this is the pot of gold pitched by all the XML evangelists. You ask who'd pay stupid amounts for a manual or some other small item? Well, I have. If I'm in a pinch, and the client is footing the bill, I've paid the stupid price for all sorts of replacement items. Recent stupid purchases: 6 gig IDE drives for $100+ because I needed the exact model to attempt a brain-transplant to rescue the data. Another reason for the stupid fixed price shipping model: many of these operations have employees. They're not just one person sitting at home selling items in their spare time. Selling one item does have a fixed cost in time and trouble. Then there's my maxim regarding any mail order sales: The cost of goods should be covered by the shipping and handling charge. All else is gravy. :-) - John From teoz at neo.rr.com Mon Feb 23 08:38:12 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:39 2005 Subject: Greedy E-bay idiots! References: <200402052239.59025.pat@computer-refuge.org> <002b01c3ec68$ea827d00$0500fea9@game> <6.0.1.1.2.20040223072700.066efe90@pc> Message-ID: <00b001c3fa1a$ab5f2960$0500fea9@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Foust" To: Sent: Monday, February 23, 2004 8:37 AM Subject: Re: Greedy E-bay idiots! > At 10:23 PM 2/5/2004, Teo Zenios wrote: > >He might have no idea what he has, but he knows you will pony up $2,500 for > >it so maybe $4,000 might be reasonable to somebody else. You might call him > >greedy, but I don't see why he would be stupid? eBay has been around for > >quite a few years and more people are listing items (and selling them) now > >then every year before so somebody is making some cash (besides UPS, USPS, > >and Fedex anyway). > > eBay's short-term auction model works well for all parties if > the items sell quickly. They're missing an opportunity for items > that don't sell quickly, but that people want to sell. > > > - John > > eBay could care less about what people want to sell, they care about what people will buy. There is limited space on eBays servers just like there is limited space in a store. Having items sitting around for years taking up space and bloating the database with absolutely no revenue coming in is a waste of time for eBay. Having to pay for an advertisement on eBay keeps people from listing their Commodore 64 for $200 and letting the add sit there for the next 500 years. Most of the fun of an auction is bidding on an item that doesn't come around that often and getting it for a great price. From curt at atarimuseum.com Mon Feb 23 08:42:26 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:39 2005 Subject: Everex EV-831 In-Reply-To: <000c01c3f9fc$5eccc9e0$2201a8c0@finans> References: <200401030646.i036k6CZ022224@spies.com> <000c01c3f9fc$5eccc9e0$2201a8c0@finans> Message-ID: <403A1152.20308@atarimuseum.com> Let me know how you make out with that Nico, Ive got like 3-4 of them and some QIC02's as well. Curt Nico de Jong wrote: >I've tried to find DOS drivers for this QIC-36 card, but as yet to no avail. >Could someone give me an idea on where to find one ? I've only seen some >Unix and BSD drivers. >Any ehlp would be appreciated > > > > -- Curt Vendel & Karl Morris ----------------------------------------------------------------------- The Atari Museum http://www.atarimuseum.com The Atari Explorer http://www.atari-explorer.com From sebastian.brueckner at epost.de Mon Feb 23 08:50:59 2004 From: sebastian.brueckner at epost.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Sebastian_Br=FCckner?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:39 2005 Subject: Unknown QBUS board In-Reply-To: <20040223030652.GA13835@bos7.spole.gov> References: <20040223030652.GA13835@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: <403A1353.9090903@epost.de> Ethan Dicks wrote: > On Sun, Feb 22, 2004 at 02:32:50PM -0700, CRC wrote: > >>On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 11:04:03 +0100, Sebastian Br?ckner >> schreibt: >> >> >>>A few month ago I acquired a VAXstation 3200. >>> >>>There is one QBUS card in the system that I can't identify. >>>As far as I know the VAX has been used for measurement data aquisition >>>in a physics laboratory. >> >>You have the Qbus part (KSC2922) of a KSC2922/3922, Qbus CAMAC >>interface. CAMAC (Computer Automated Measurement And Control) is an >>instrumentation system extensively used in the nuclear/high energy >>area. > > Interesting (to me at least... we have numerous CAMAC crates here at Pole, > but the last MicroVAX was turned off several years ago). AFAIK my VAX was used at a high-energy positron beam. It was last used productively in 1997 I believe. Sebastian From curt at atarimuseum.com Mon Feb 23 08:52:10 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:39 2005 Subject: Greedy E-bay idiots! In-Reply-To: <6.0.1.1.2.20040223072700.066efe90@pc> References: <200402052239.59025.pat@computer-refuge.org> <002b01c3ec68$ea827d00$0500fea9@game> <6.0.1.1.2.20040223072700.066efe90@pc> Message-ID: <403A139A.2060408@atarimuseum.com> Actually there is a new phenomenon happening now and anyone interested in jumping onboard should move now.... Ebay is organizing all around the country "Drop Off Centers" Where the non-technical, non-interested can just pull up with their stuff, drop it off, give their prices and the drop off company will photograph and post auctions/sales onto Ebay and charge a commission for the sale of the items. This is an opportunity everyone could take advantage of and if you're willing to setup an asset manage system, tags, have a small warehouse space, setup a photography area and spend the time putting some nice html templates together this could turn into a full time business. Curt John Foust wrote: >At 10:23 PM 2/5/2004, Teo Zenios wrote: > > >>He might have no idea what he has, but he knows you will pony up $2,500 for >>it so maybe $4,000 might be reasonable to somebody else. You might call him >>greedy, but I don't see why he would be stupid? eBay has been around for >>quite a few years and more people are listing items (and selling them) now >>then every year before so somebody is making some cash (besides UPS, USPS, >>and Fedex anyway). >> >> > >eBay's short-term auction model works well for all parties if >the items sell quickly. They're missing an opportunity for items >that don't sell quickly, but that people want to sell. > >Based on my proven inability to come up with an idea that someone >else isn't already milking, there must be an auction site like that. > >It would be more like Sanford & Son - a digital junkyard - than an >auction house. Give an easy Access / SQL / XML interface for uploading, >and let the parts warehouses list what they have. Let the items sit >there until sold, and only then would I pay the listing fee. Encourage >junkyards of whatever type to list their inventory and keep it current. >Heavens, let me search reliably by barcode or parts number. > >Maybe this isn't even a centralized service like eBay. Maybe it's a >distributed service, spidering a database that my web site advertises. >Maybe this is the pot of gold pitched by all the XML evangelists. > >You ask who'd pay stupid amounts for a manual or some other small item? >Well, I have. If I'm in a pinch, and the client is footing the bill, >I've paid the stupid price for all sorts of replacement items. >Recent stupid purchases: 6 gig IDE drives for $100+ because I needed >the exact model to attempt a brain-transplant to rescue the data. > >Another reason for the stupid fixed price shipping model: many of >these operations have employees. They're not just one person sitting >at home selling items in their spare time. Selling one item does >have a fixed cost in time and trouble. > >Then there's my maxim regarding any mail order sales: The cost >of goods should be covered by the shipping and handling charge. >All else is gravy. :-) > >- John > > > > -- Curt Vendel & Karl Morris ----------------------------------------------------------------------- The Atari Museum http://www.atarimuseum.com The Atari Explorer http://www.atari-explorer.com From marvin at rain.org Mon Feb 23 10:19:07 2004 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:39 2005 Subject: Greedy E-bay idiots! References: <200402052239.59025.pat@computer-refuge.org> <002b01c3ec68$ea827d00$0500fea9@game> <6.0.1.1.2.20040223072700.066efe90@pc> <403A139A.2060408@atarimuseum.com> Message-ID: <403A27FB.BC04710B@rain.org> Curt Vendel wrote: > > Actually there is a new phenomenon happening now and anyone interested > in jumping onboard should move now.... Ebay is organizing all around the > country "Drop Off Centers" Where the non-technical, non-interested can > just pull up with their stuff, drop it off, give their prices and the > drop off company will photograph and post auctions/sales onto Ebay and > charge a commission for the sale of the items. This would be a wonderful thing to do! And along those same lines, it should be pointed out that ebay is *not* the only way to sell stuff online. Part of the value of these "Drop Off Centers" could be knowing when to put something on Ebay, and when to put it somewhere else. I *do not trust* Ebay to do anything other than look out for their financial interests. Ebay is not always the best venue to use for selling things, but it does take work to find and develop other outlets. FWIW, I ran across a 1997 book titled "net.gain" by Hagel and Armstrong published by Harvard Business School Press that details the authors thoughts and experiences with developing online communitites. Excellent!!! If I were to guess, I would say that this book was studied and put into practice by the people at Ebay. Basically, it makes five points to define a virtual community: 1) Distinctive focus as to membership. 2) Integration of content and communication. 3) Emphasis on member-generated vendors. 4) Choice among competing vendors. 5) Commercially motivated community organizers. From dwight.elvey at amd.com Mon Feb 23 10:57:06 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:39 2005 Subject: Aargh...It never ends.. Message-ID: <200402231657.IAA23127@clulw009.amd.com> Hi Actually it won't make a particularly good Jacobs ladder. If it doesn't blow a breaker, the rods will most likely melt off. It is not like a neon sign transformer that is current limited, it is a transformer that is current rated. Let me see, 60Kv at 30ma is 1800W. How long so you think the rods will hold up to such power. I recommend having a fire extinguisher handy. >From: "ed sharpe" > >it should make a fine Jacobs ladder! >ed! >----- Original Message ----- >From: "ben franchuk" >To: ; "On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > >Sent: Friday, February 20, 2004 9:37 PM >Subject: Re: Aargh...It never ends.. > > >> Patrick Finnegan wrote: >> >> > Hmm. I've got the transformer off an X-Ray generator which puts out >> > 60kV at probably at least 30mA sitting in my office where I've been >> > playing with it a bit before bringing it home (and building a Bigger >> > Better jacobs ladder). I think it'd probably sting a bit to get in the >> > path of that... >> >> Build a demo fusor,that is lots of fun. >> ( And $$$ and time and parts ) >> http://www.fusor.net/ >> >> > It's quite funny, actually. When I tell people that I have it because >> > "it makes sparks," no one seems to understand. But when I show them >> > what it does, they're usually quite impressed and gain >> > understanding. :) >> >> Wait till you roll out the dead body and show them how you can bring it >> to life.:D >> >> > Pat >> Ben. >> >> >> >> >> > > > From curt at atarimuseum.com Mon Feb 23 11:07:15 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:39 2005 Subject: Greedy E-bay idiots! - Drop Off centers the newest thing! References: <200402052239.59025.pat@computer-refuge.org> <002b01c3ec68$ea827d00$0500fea9@game><6.0.1.1.2.20040223072700.066efe90@pc><403A139A.2060408@atarimuseum.com> <403A27FB.BC04710B@rain.org> Message-ID: <000801c3fa2f$7cbe9ea0$1a02a8c0@starship1> I agree too, also these drop-offs centers, while some are official Ebay ones, you can set up your own independant one and you could very well do many avenues such as put some on Ebay, others on other sites. If you were to get into surplus computer equipment you could post it into Vintage Marketplace or if it were videogames you could post it onto bidiots.com There are other sites like biz.com and bidville.com (though I've gone to bidville and the ville is more like a ghost town, lots of stuff but like no buying at all, at least on VCM and bidiots! I see a lot of buyers not just sellers) I've been hearing some negative stuff about epier.com lately so I'm steering clear of them. Yahoo auctions while a big site, their selling system for posting items is really cumbersome and time consuming and their presentation leaves a LOT to be desired. I'm trying to move away from Ebay and their monopoly especially since they really soured me with yet another rate increase on Feb 1st, and they tried to hide it by saying "well gee, we're only charging people $39.99 to post on our front page instead of $99.99 look at the great price cuts we're giving everyone... meanwhile don't pay attention to the subtle price gouging we've just put into all the other features on our site" I'm patronizing VCM and Bidiots as much as possible and looking elsewhere for items like the newsgroups, I don't want to give evilbay anymore of my business or $$$ anymore, enough is enough. If anyone wants to put together a Drop-Off Center for computers/electronics/video games/technology in the NY/CT area, contact me as I would love to put together a business with someone on this, this is a ground floor concept and I always hate it when stuff takes off and you just get in when the whole market is flooded and its too late. Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marvin Johnston" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Monday, February 23, 2004 11:19 AM Subject: Re: Greedy E-bay idiots! > > Curt Vendel wrote: > > > > Actually there is a new phenomenon happening now and anyone interested > > in jumping onboard should move now.... Ebay is organizing all around the > > country "Drop Off Centers" Where the non-technical, non-interested can > > just pull up with their stuff, drop it off, give their prices and the > > drop off company will photograph and post auctions/sales onto Ebay and > > charge a commission for the sale of the items. > > This would be a wonderful thing to do! And along those same lines, it > should be pointed out that ebay is *not* the only way to sell stuff > online. Part of the value of these "Drop Off Centers" could be knowing > when to put something on Ebay, and when to put it somewhere else. I *do > not trust* Ebay to do anything other than look out for their financial > interests. Ebay is not always the best venue to use for selling things, > but it does take work to find and develop other outlets. > > FWIW, I ran across a 1997 book titled "net.gain" by Hagel and Armstrong > published by Harvard Business School Press that details the authors > thoughts and experiences with developing online communitites. > Excellent!!! If I were to guess, I would say that this book was studied > and put into practice by the people at Ebay. Basically, it makes five > points to define a virtual community: > > 1) Distinctive focus as to membership. > 2) Integration of content and communication. > 3) Emphasis on member-generated vendors. > 4) Choice among competing vendors. > 5) Commercially motivated community organizers. From TRASH3 at splab.cas.neu.edu Mon Feb 23 11:23:29 2004 From: TRASH3 at splab.cas.neu.edu (TRASH3@splab.cas.neu.edu) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:39 2005 Subject: Everex EV-831 Message-ID: <040223122329.2dc52@splab.cas.neu.edu> I have three 5.25 inch floppies that have the labels (copies): EVEREX EXCEL STREAMING TAPE ST 4061 VER 4.06 EV0-00830-00 MAY 24 1988. Disk 2 and 3 have similar labels, but are 4062 and 4063. Upon running the tape program on disk 1, the options for hardware are: Full Size QIC-36 tape controller board Full Size cassette tape controller board Half Size QIC-02 tape controller board Diskette and QIC-02 board 2/3 Size QIC-36 Disk and QIC-36 Disk and QIC-02 The program does not give model numbers, but shows a graphic of the board and all the jumpers. Ya think this software will help you? Joe Heck From dwight.elvey at amd.com Mon Feb 23 11:30:39 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:39 2005 Subject: Heath EC-1 Analog on eBay Message-ID: <200402231730.JAA23199@clulw009.amd.com> Hi John You'll note that unlike most I've seen, this one has the original component holders. Other than some dust and rust, this looks like a good unit. The fact that all of the regulators light up is a good indication. Compared to other units, this one went for below its expected value. If the seller had taken about 20 mins to dust it off, he'd most likely got another $100 or so for it. Dwight >From: "John Lawson" > > > >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2788209717&category=1247 > > >20 hours to go - $130.50 so far.... > >Kinda funky looking and tried it out, says "it lights up"... > > >Cheers > >John > > > > From dwight.elvey at amd.com Mon Feb 23 11:32:13 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:39 2005 Subject: Heath H-8 on eBay Message-ID: <200402231732.JAA23203@clulw009.amd.com> Hi I wish they'd list what boards were in it. The picture are just right at the edge of being able to determine what boards it has. Dwight >From: "John Lawson" > > > >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2788264325&category=4193 > > >so far $150 - about a day to go. > > Cheers > >John > > > From dwight.elvey at amd.com Mon Feb 23 11:42:08 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:39 2005 Subject: FORTH Journals Message-ID: <200402231742.JAA23233@clulw009.amd.com> Hi I thought someone in this group might also be interested in these books. For those interested in Forth, the Forth Encyclopedia ( upper left ) is worth more than all the rest of the items he has. Of course, the Forth Primer is a historic item as well. Dwight >From: "Jimmy Pepp" > >Hi: > >My name is Charlie Krajewski. For several years I >subscribed to and saved Forth literature. I am >cleaning up and I'd like to find a good home for these >journals, etc. > >Most of what I have can be seen in this pic: > >http://www.skcpumps.com/images/forth.jpg > >The FORML proceedings are 1983, 1984, 1985 >5 Issues of "The Journal of Forth R&D" >1984 Forth Rochester Conference > >Everything is $5/Journal, Except for: >"Using Forth" $20 >"Inside F83", $10 > >All will be sold, first come, first serve. > >Make an offer. If I don't receive the asking price I >will sell for the best offer. > >You will be billed for the exact postage. Items will >be shipped Media Mail to minimize shipping charges. > >I may unearth more stuff later. > >Charlie Krajewski >112 Golfview Drive >McMurray, PA 15317 >724-941-5779 > > > > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want. >http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools > From esharpe at uswest.net Mon Feb 23 11:50:09 2004 From: esharpe at uswest.net (ed sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:39 2005 Subject: Aargh...It never ends.. References: <200402231657.IAA23127@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <005901c3fa35$7a8b0e10$c2956d44@SONYDIGITALED> Yikes!! perhaps water cooled rods with hollow centers! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dwight K. Elvey" To: ; Sent: Monday, February 23, 2004 9:57 AM Subject: Re: Aargh...It never ends.. > Hi > Actually it won't make a particularly good Jacobs > ladder. If it doesn't blow a breaker, the rods > will most likely melt off. It is not like a neon > sign transformer that is current limited, it is > a transformer that is current rated. Let me see, > 60Kv at 30ma is 1800W. How long so you think the > rods will hold up to such power. > I recommend having a fire extinguisher handy. > > > > >From: "ed sharpe" > > > >it should make a fine Jacobs ladder! > >ed! > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "ben franchuk" > >To: ; "On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > > >Sent: Friday, February 20, 2004 9:37 PM > >Subject: Re: Aargh...It never ends.. > > > > > >> Patrick Finnegan wrote: > >> > >> > Hmm. I've got the transformer off an X-Ray generator which puts out > >> > 60kV at probably at least 30mA sitting in my office where I've been > >> > playing with it a bit before bringing it home (and building a Bigger > >> > Better jacobs ladder). I think it'd probably sting a bit to get in the > >> > path of that... > >> > >> Build a demo fusor,that is lots of fun. > >> ( And $$$ and time and parts ) > >> http://www.fusor.net/ > >> > >> > It's quite funny, actually. When I tell people that I have it because > >> > "it makes sparks," no one seems to understand. But when I show them > >> > what it does, they're usually quite impressed and gain > >> > understanding. :) > >> > >> Wait till you roll out the dead body and show them how you can bring it > >> to life.:D > >> > >> > Pat > >> Ben. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Mon Feb 23 12:18:17 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:39 2005 Subject: TCA240 pinout and a little data In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1077559503.12903.24.camel@weka.localdomain> On Sat, 2004-02-21 at 22:56, Tony Duell wrote: > Jules Richardson (IIRC) was asking about this chip to repair a classic > computer peripheral (so it is on-topic)... > > I can't find it in a databook, but I've found a circuit that uses it -- > the 'Head Amplifier Playback' module (board P50) in a Philips VR2020 VCR > [1].It seems to contain 8 NPN transistors and nothing else (at least the > schematic of that board shows the internals of the IC as 8 transistors > only) and consists of 2 identical sections. That's brilliant, thanks. I assumed that whatever was going on in there was coupled somehow, so treating it as two seperate arrays should make understanding easier as you say, as well as making the schematic a little clearer :) cheers Jules From arois at ciudad.com.ar Wed Feb 18 12:29:44 2004 From: arois at ciudad.com.ar (Alfredo B. Roisenzvit) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:40 2005 Subject: OT: Need P/S specs for Power Sentry USB hub (was OT: Need HP Message-ID: <003b01c3f64d$2ed0dae0$a272fea9@acmejug43w9hta> Hi. i don't know if you have it already. I have one,. it is definetely 5V, however, I dont know if the (+) is inside or outside. If you know, please let me know since i need to plug it in too... From jawaidza at wtmeca.net Mon Feb 23 11:24:07 2004 From: jawaidza at wtmeca.net (Jawaid) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:40 2005 Subject: Compaq slt 286 Message-ID: <000601c3fa31$da75ca80$6400a8c0@worldcall.net.pk> CAN YOU HELP ME WITH THE DIAGNOSTIC DISK FOR SLT/286. THANKS Jawaid jawaidza@wtmeca.net From john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org Sun Feb 22 07:37:55 2004 From: john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org (John Boffemmyer IV) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:40 2005 Subject: Unknown QBUS board In-Reply-To: <40387E93.9030603@epost.de> References: <40387E93.9030603@epost.de> Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.2.20040222083615.02572050@mail.n.ml.org> Quick googling found this: http://www.kscorp.com/www/camac/3900/3922.html 2922 Q-busTM Interface w/DMA --> 3922 Parallel Bus Crate Controller from this link: http://www.kscorp.com/www/camac/1000/2922.html Found your card =) -John Boffemmyer IV At 05:04 AM 2/22/2004, you wrote: >Hi! > >A few month ago I acquired a VAXstation 3200. It runs runs very nicely >with a Emulex UC08 SCSI-Controller off a 1GB full-height SCSI-Disk. > >There is one QBUS card in the system that I can't identify. >As far as I know the VAX has been used for measurement data aquisition in >a physics laboratory. >The only connector to the outside is for a 40-pin ribbon cable. I got a >very long (10m I guess) cable with the box so I suppose it is using some >kind of differential data transmission. >Unfortunately I don't know what was connected to the other end of the >cable. Probably the card is useless without that second part (maybe a >A/D-Converter?). > >The board occupies all 4 slots and is populated mostly with small ICs of >the 74xxx series and some PALs. > >The Label says: > >KINETICSYSTEMS >MODEL D1571 >MODEL 2922-Z1B > >I did not find any usable information on he net. Does anyone of you know >what this board does? > >Thanks in advance, > Sebastian ---------------------------------------- Founder, Lead Writer, Tech Analyst and Web Designer Boff-Net Technologies http://boff-net.dhs.org/index.html --------------------------------------- From john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org Sun Feb 22 12:29:18 2004 From: john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org (John Boffemmyer IV) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:40 2005 Subject: Sellam - TV star ! In-Reply-To: <005101c3f96f$90e0e610$1a02a8c0@starship1> References: <001201c3f96a$8aaaba00$0400a8c0@look.ca> <005101c3f96f$90e0e610$1a02a8c0@starship1> Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.2.20040222132806.0256d100@mail.n.ml.org> No, american idol with William Hung, doing a duet of prince's "when the doves cry" rofl =) hehe, just kidding sellam. -john boffemmyer iv At 01:13 PM 2/22/2004, you wrote: >Was Sellam on America's Most Wanted again..... ;-) > > > >Curt > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Brian Mahoney" >To: >Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2004 12:36 PM >Subject: Sellam - TV star ! > > >Just caught Sellam on Media Television here in Toronto. The show is produced >by our independent station, CITY - TV. >Is this old news? >Anyway, my 14 year old son called me into the room and we both watched the >fairly long (for TV) interview/tour. Besides being very interesting to me, I >feel it gave my son some new-found pride in what I do as a hobby. Kind of >gave it some legitamacy. If anyone wants more details, let me know. > >Brian M. > >(seen Sunday Feb. 22/04 at 12:15) ---------------------------------------- Founder, Lead Writer, Tech Analyst and Web Designer Boff-Net Technologies http://boff-net.dhs.org/index.html --------------------------------------- From sandystein at worldnet.att.net Sun Feb 22 00:03:11 2004 From: sandystein at worldnet.att.net (sanford stein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:40 2005 Subject: kaypro Message-ID: <000801c3f909$8e2afe30$a3f0480c@sandystein> I'm looking for a kaypro 10. Anybody out there have one? Sandy sandystein@hotmail.com From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Feb 23 12:29:29 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:40 2005 Subject: Hollerith (was: lk401 keyboard protocol? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040223102805.C92740@newshell.lmi.net> Well, ... not "Exactly!", since he was born in 1860, therefore it would be 35, not 39 (NB: 1900 was NOT a leap year) On Mon, 23 Feb 2004, David V. Corbin wrote: > Exactly! > > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > >>> [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of > >>> blstuart@bellsouth.net > >>> Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2004 11:11 PM > >>> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > >>> Subject: Re: Hollerith (was: lk401 keyboard protocol? > >>> > >>> >> > > 39th? Shouldn't it be older than that? > >>> > >>> Methinks ol' Herman must have been born on February 29, 1848. > >>> > >>> Brian L. Stuart From vcf at siconic.com Mon Feb 23 13:00:03 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:40 2005 Subject: OT: Need P/S specs for Power Sentry USB hub (was OT: Need HP In-Reply-To: <003b01c3f64d$2ed0dae0$a272fea9@acmejug43w9hta> Message-ID: On Wed, 18 Feb 2004, Alfredo B. Roisenzvit wrote: > Hi. i don't know if you have it already. I have one,. it is definetely > 5V, however, I dont know if the (+) is inside or outside. If you know, > please let me know since i need to plug it in too... Hi Alfredo. That is the big question. The center pin seems to go right into a diode, but I can't tell what side of the diode that is. The outside conductor goes to the ground plane, which would indicate that it is negative? So my guess is that this is center positive? Anyone? Anyone? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Mon Feb 23 13:00:45 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:40 2005 Subject: Sellam - TV star ! In-Reply-To: <6.0.3.0.2.20040222132806.0256d100@mail.n.ml.org> Message-ID: On Sun, 22 Feb 2004, John Boffemmyer IV wrote: > No, american idol with William Hung, doing a duet of prince's "when the > doves cry" rofl =) > > hehe, just kidding sellam. That conjures up very frightening images in my head. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From zmerch at 30below.com Mon Feb 23 13:41:13 2004 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:40 2005 Subject: OT: Need P/S specs for Power Sentry USB hub (was OT: Need HP In-Reply-To: References: <003b01c3f64d$2ed0dae0$a272fea9@acmejug43w9hta> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040223143236.00ae24b0@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Vintage Computer Festival may have mentioned these words: >On Wed, 18 Feb 2004, Alfredo B. Roisenzvit wrote: > > > Hi. i don't know if you have it already. I have one,. it is definetely > > 5V, however, I dont know if the (+) is inside or outside. If you know, > > please let me know since i need to plug it in too... > >Hi Alfredo. > >That is the big question. The center pin seems to go right into a diode, >but I can't tell what side of the diode that is. The outside conductor >goes to the ground plane, which would indicate that it is negative? So my >guess is that this is center positive? > >Anyone? Anyone? AFAIK, *almost all* wallwarts were center positive. If the outer ring is going to the ground plane, that *should* be the clincher, but... as they say about assuming things... The reason for this is supposed to be that if a barrel connector is center-negative and is grounded, if the barrel touches any part of the circuit that's grounded (which is usually a pretty fair amount) it will short out the PS and possibly do bad things to the circuit. The risk is _lessened_ when the barrel is negative. This is why I'm *always* careful with wallwarts for my Tandy Model 'T' computers - they are barrel-positive. HTH, Roger "Merch" Merchberger P.S. I'm back... either someone hates me (plausible) or the listserver software "forgot" me (equally plausible) because I just stopped getting posts awhile back... Xmas was quite busy for me, so I've finally found the time to get resubbed. -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger | JC: "Like those people in Celeronville!" sysadmin, Iceberg Computers | Me: "Don't you mean Silicon Valley???" zmerch@30below.com | JC: "Yea, that's the place!" | JC == Jeremy Christian From jwstephens at msm.umr.edu Mon Feb 23 13:51:44 2004 From: jwstephens at msm.umr.edu (jim) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:40 2005 Subject: Everex EV-831 References: <200401030646.i036k6CZ022224@spies.com> <000c01c3f9fc$5eccc9e0$2201a8c0@finans> <403A1152.20308@atarimuseum.com> Message-ID: <403A59D0.3812728B@msm.umr.edu> there weren't a lot of dos drivers for the 831. The everex backup and restore program pretty much was the way that you used the tape drive under DOS. I don't recall if everex made available drivers, or if you had to come by them on your own. Jim Curt Vendel wrote: > Let me know how you make out with that Nico, Ive got like 3-4 of them > and some QIC02's as well. > > Curt > > Nico de Jong wrote: > > >I've tried to find DOS drivers for this QIC-36 card, but as yet to no avail. > >Could someone give me an idea on where to find one ? I've only seen some > >Unix and BSD drivers. > >Any ehlp would be appreciated > > > > > > > > > > -- From d_cymbal at hotmail.com Mon Feb 23 14:00:13 2004 From: d_cymbal at hotmail.com (Damien Cymbal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:40 2005 Subject: Anyone near Rancocas, NJ..... Message-ID: ...whose travels ever take them up near Boston? Somebody down there has offered me a bunch of Visual 1050 items that I'm interested in, but he is not willing to pack/ship the stuff and I can't get down there anytime soon. Alternatively, if someone is willing to try and handle the packing/shipping for me let me know what terms you'd consider. Thanks. dc _________________________________________________________________ Click, drag and drop. My MSN is the simple way to design your homepage. http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200364ave/direct/01/ From geoffreythomas at onetel.net.uk Mon Feb 23 14:03:39 2004 From: geoffreythomas at onetel.net.uk (Geoffrey Thomas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:40 2005 Subject: lk401 keyboard protocol? References: Message-ID: <013901c3fa48$4ded6a20$f35c4ed5@geoff> > Why the hell do we care what the ancient pagans realized in relation > to computer science? Are you suggesting we also sacrifice a virgin upon > our keyboards whenever we begin a new project? Define keyboard , define sacrifice. Geoff. From acme at gbronline.com Mon Feb 23 14:04:08 2004 From: acme at gbronline.com (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:40 2005 Subject: lk401 keyboard protocol? References: <0402230254.AA23896@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: <01a801c3fa48$3626af00$3e4f0945@thegoodw> ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Lawson" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2004 9:58 PM Subject: RE: lk401 keyboard protocol? > > > On Sun, 22 Feb 2004, Michael Sokolov wrote: > > > David V. Corbin wrote: > > > > > Everybody, remember Hollerith's 39th Birthday is later this week!!!!!!!! > > > > 39th? Shouldn't it be older than that? > > > No; they're very near Rochester. John, that's *funny*! Glen 0/0 From dwight.elvey at amd.com Mon Feb 23 14:13:44 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:40 2005 Subject: Jade JGZ80 Message-ID: <200402232013.MAA23420@clulw009.amd.com> Hi Does anyone have a manual for this S-100 Jade JGZ80 board? I'm trying to figure how to set up the ROM addressing. Thanks Dwight From donm at cts.com Mon Feb 23 15:12:54 2004 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:40 2005 Subject: Everex EV-831 In-Reply-To: <040223122329.2dc52@splab.cas.neu.edu> Message-ID: On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 TRASH3@splab.cas.neu.edu wrote: > I have three 5.25 inch floppies that have the labels (copies): > EVEREX EXCEL STREAMING TAPE ST 4061 VER 4.06 EV0-00830-00 MAY 24 1988. > Disk 2 and 3 have similar labels, but are 4062 and 4063. Upon running > the tape program on disk 1, the options for hardware are: > Full Size QIC-36 tape controller board > Full Size cassette tape controller board > Half Size QIC-02 tape controller board > Diskette and QIC-02 board > 2/3 Size QIC-36 > Disk and QIC-36 > Disk and QIC-02 > > The program does not give model numbers, but shows a graphic of the board > and all the jumpers. > > Ya think this software will help you? > > Joe Heck > Joe, would you send me a zip file of the contents of each disk so that I can add it to the archive? Thanks! - don From donm at cts.com Mon Feb 23 15:17:28 2004 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:40 2005 Subject: Aargh...It never ends.. In-Reply-To: <005901c3fa35$7a8b0e10$c2956d44@SONYDIGITALED> Message-ID: On Mon, 23 Feb 2004, ed sharpe wrote: > Yikes!! > > perhaps water cooled rods with hollow centers! > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dwight K. Elvey" > To: ; > Sent: Monday, February 23, 2004 9:57 AM > Subject: Re: Aargh...It never ends.. > > > > Hi > > Actually it won't make a particularly good Jacobs > > ladder. If it doesn't blow a breaker, the rods > > will most likely melt off. It is not like a neon > > sign transformer that is current limited, it is > > a transformer that is current rated. Let me see, > > 60Kv at 30ma is 1800W. How long so you think the > > rods will hold up to such power. > > I recommend having a fire extinguisher handy. Better add a mop to accompany that extinguisher. - don > > >From: "ed sharpe" > > > > > >it should make a fine Jacobs ladder! > > >ed! > > >----- Original Message ----- > > >From: "ben franchuk" > > >To: ; "On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > > > > >Sent: Friday, February 20, 2004 9:37 PM > > >Subject: Re: Aargh...It never ends.. > > > > > > > > >> Patrick Finnegan wrote: > > >> > > >> > Hmm. I've got the transformer off an X-Ray generator which puts out > > >> > 60kV at probably at least 30mA sitting in my office where I've been > > >> > playing with it a bit before bringing it home (and building a Bigger > > >> > Better jacobs ladder). I think it'd probably sting a bit to get in > the > > >> > path of that... > > >> > > >> Build a demo fusor,that is lots of fun. > > >> ( And $$$ and time and parts ) > > >> http://www.fusor.net/ > > >> > > >> > It's quite funny, actually. When I tell people that I have it > because > > >> > "it makes sparks," no one seems to understand. But when I show them > > >> > what it does, they're usually quite impressed and gain > > >> > understanding. :) > > >> > > >> Wait till you roll out the dead body and show them how you can bring it > > >> to life.:D > > >> > > >> > Pat > > >> Ben. > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From curt at atarimuseum.com Mon Feb 23 15:26:49 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:40 2005 Subject: Everex EV-831 In-Reply-To: <040223122329.2dc52@splab.cas.neu.edu> References: <040223122329.2dc52@splab.cas.neu.edu> Message-ID: <403A7019.7010402@atarimuseum.com> Joe, If you could zip those up and email me copies I would GREATL appreciate it. Curt TRASH3@splab.cas.neu.edu wrote: >I have three 5.25 inch floppies that have the labels (copies): >EVEREX EXCEL STREAMING TAPE ST 4061 VER 4.06 EV0-00830-00 MAY 24 1988. >Disk 2 and 3 have similar labels, but are 4062 and 4063. Upon running >the tape program on disk 1, the options for hardware are: >Full Size QIC-36 tape controller board >Full Size cassette tape controller board >Half Size QIC-02 tape controller board >Diskette and QIC-02 board >2/3 Size QIC-36 >Disk and QIC-36 >Disk and QIC-02 > >The program does not give model numbers, but shows a graphic of the board >and all the jumpers. > >Ya think this software will help you? > >Joe Heck > > > -- Curt Vendel & Karl Morris ----------------------------------------------------------------------- The Atari Museum http://www.atarimuseum.com The Atari Explorer http://www.atari-explorer.com From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Feb 23 15:26:58 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:40 2005 Subject: PerSci manual wanted (classiccomp) In-Reply-To: Herb Johnson "PerSci manual wanted (classiccomp)" (Feb 14, 14:31) References: <402E7775.70409@comcast.net> Message-ID: <10402232126.ZM6267@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Hi, Herb. On Feb 14, 14:31, Herb Johnson wrote: > Saw your msg below while searching the Web about Persci drives. > I have a 277 manual, courtesty of Cromemco, in my inventory. > I normally sell copies by the page but I would trade for copies > of some of your manuals. Confirm you are still interested and > we can work the details. I have the Persci 277, 299, (8-inch) > manuals; what is the 207 and 272? At the time, one of the places I looked was your site and I recall (I think) seeing your manual. I've since been given a PDF copy, though, so I don't need a "real" one. As to the models, as you probably know, the 277 and 299 are twin drives -- they take two disks -- the 277 being single-sided and the 299B being double-sided. I only have the full spec for the 277/299, so I'm not sure but I believe the 270/272 are single-mechanism versions (ie they take one disk, not two). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From aw288 at osfn.org Mon Feb 23 15:40:33 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:40 2005 Subject: Flash mob computing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Interesting concept: get a bunch of people together who all have at least > a 1.3Ghz P-III (or AMD equivalent) laptop with at least 256MB RAM and a > 100baseT network connection and hook them all together to try to get onto > the list of the world's 500 fastest supercomputers: > > http://www.flashmobcomputing.org/ Supercomputers are dead. Or at least the magic aura of supercomputers. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From curt at atarimuseum.com Mon Feb 23 15:47:57 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:40 2005 Subject: Flash mob computing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <403A750D.50709@atarimuseum.com> I agree.... the fabled days of Supercomputers kinda died when the Cray's became obsolete and lost their awe and allure... Curt William Donzelli wrote: >>Interesting concept: get a bunch of people together who all have at least >>a 1.3Ghz P-III (or AMD equivalent) laptop with at least 256MB RAM and a >>100baseT network connection and hook them all together to try to get onto >>the list of the world's 500 fastest supercomputers: >> >>http://www.flashmobcomputing.org/ >> >> > >Supercomputers are dead. Or at least the magic aura of supercomputers. > >William Donzelli >aw288@osfn.org > > > -- Curt Vendel & Karl Morris ----------------------------------------------------------------------- The Atari Museum http://www.atarimuseum.com The Atari Explorer http://www.atari-explorer.com From nico at farumdata.dk Mon Feb 23 15:57:23 2004 From: nico at farumdata.dk (Nico de Jong) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:40 2005 Subject: Everex EV-831 References: <040223122329.2dc52@splab.cas.neu.edu> Message-ID: <001b01c3fa58$06d208c0$2201a8c0@finans> Hi Joe That sounds right. The full size QIC-36 is right. Most of the jumps are located just above the connector. IRQ 2-7, DRQ 1-3 and DACK 1-3. There is also a 4-pin header (2 x 2) near the crystal (at the back / bottom) called E1 E2 E5 E6. I can copy the discs on some other discs, and then send them to Curt. We can also do it the other way around. I would appreciate your help. thanks Nico You can find my addres on www.farumdata.dk ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, February 23, 2004 6:23 PM Subject: RE: Everex EV-831 > I have three 5.25 inch floppies that have the labels (copies): > EVEREX EXCEL STREAMING TAPE ST 4061 VER 4.06 EV0-00830-00 MAY 24 1988. > Disk 2 and 3 have similar labels, but are 4062 and 4063. Upon running > the tape program on disk 1, the options for hardware are: > Full Size QIC-36 tape controller board > Full Size cassette tape controller board > Half Size QIC-02 tape controller board > Diskette and QIC-02 board > 2/3 Size QIC-36 > Disk and QIC-36 > Disk and QIC-02 > > The program does not give model numbers, but shows a graphic of the board > and all the jumpers. > > Ya think this software will help you? > > Joe Heck > From nico at farumdata.dk Mon Feb 23 15:59:02 2004 From: nico at farumdata.dk (Nico de Jong) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:40 2005 Subject: Everex EV-831 References: <040223122329.2dc52@splab.cas.neu.edu> Message-ID: <004401c3fa58$3f7b5820$2201a8c0@finans> BTW, the reason I asked for disks, is that I sometimes have seen that programs only will install when the install is done from disk, _and_ there is a specific volume name or whatever We could try with ZIPs first, of course Nico ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, February 23, 2004 6:23 PM Subject: RE: Everex EV-831 > I have three 5.25 inch floppies that have the labels (copies): > EVEREX EXCEL STREAMING TAPE ST 4061 VER 4.06 EV0-00830-00 MAY 24 1988. > Disk 2 and 3 have similar labels, but are 4062 and 4063. Upon running > the tape program on disk 1, the options for hardware are: > Full Size QIC-36 tape controller board > Full Size cassette tape controller board > Half Size QIC-02 tape controller board > Diskette and QIC-02 board > 2/3 Size QIC-36 > Disk and QIC-36 > Disk and QIC-02 > > The program does not give model numbers, but shows a graphic of the board > and all the jumpers. > > Ya think this software will help you? > > Joe Heck > From aw288 at osfn.org Mon Feb 23 16:01:42 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:40 2005 Subject: Greedy E-bay idiots! In-Reply-To: <6.0.1.1.2.20040223072700.066efe90@pc> Message-ID: > eBay's short-term auction model works well for all parties if > the items sell quickly. They're missing an opportunity for items > that don't sell quickly, but that people want to sell. > > Based on my proven inability to come up with an idea that someone > else isn't already milking, there must be an auction site like that. Ebay, for one. "Ebay Stores". William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From vcf at siconic.com Mon Feb 23 16:03:22 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:40 2005 Subject: Flash mob computing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 23 Feb 2004, William Donzelli wrote: > > Interesting concept: get a bunch of people together who all have at least > > a 1.3Ghz P-III (or AMD equivalent) laptop with at least 256MB RAM and a > > 100baseT network connection and hook them all together to try to get onto > > the list of the world's 500 fastest supercomputers: > > > > http://www.flashmobcomputing.org/ > > Supercomputers are dead. Or at least the magic aura of supercomputers. Sure, but massively parallel is still quite vivacious as far as I can tell. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From aw288 at osfn.org Mon Feb 23 16:07:07 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:40 2005 Subject: lk401 keyboard protocol? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > to computer science? Are you suggesting we also sacrifice a virgin upon > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > the real problem with this scenario is *finding* one..... If you would settle for sacrificing a male virgin, I bet this list has plenty. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From classiccmp at ian.viemeister.com Mon Feb 23 16:25:02 2004 From: classiccmp at ian.viemeister.com (Ian Viemeister) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:40 2005 Subject: OT: Need P/S specs for Power Sentry USB hub (was OT: Need HP In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 23 Feb 2004, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > That is the big question. The center pin seems to go right into a diode, > but I can't tell what side of the diode that is. The outside conductor > goes to the ground plane, which would indicate that it is negative? So my > guess is that this is center positive? Dunno if I've got the same model that you're both looking at, but the Power Sentry USB 2.0 hub I've got on my desk here does have a 5V, .3A, center positive wall wart. --Ian From vcf at siconic.com Mon Feb 23 16:28:37 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:40 2005 Subject: OT: Need P/S specs for Power Sentry USB hub (was OT: Need HP In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 23 Feb 2004, Ian Viemeister wrote: > On Mon, 23 Feb 2004, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > That is the big question. The center pin seems to go right into a diode, > > but I can't tell what side of the diode that is. The outside conductor > > goes to the ground plane, which would indicate that it is negative? So my > > guess is that this is center positive? > > Dunno if I've got the same model that you're both looking at, but the > Power Sentry USB 2.0 hub I've got on my desk here does have a 5V, .3A, > center positive wall wart. Hooray! The amperage was the last missing piece of information. Thanks! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From tomj at wps.com Mon Feb 23 16:56:26 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:40 2005 Subject: Unknown QBUS board In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1077576191.2072.43.camel@dhcp-251154> On Sun, 2004-02-22 at 13:32, CRC wrote: > What you need now is to find a CAMAC bin and the other end of that > interface and you can become a nuclear terrorist ;)) More useful for detecting unwanted beta emitters in gov't surplus pallets (my advice: don't lick any gray metal covered in flaking oxide). Last I knew electronics makes for poor explosive devices, except for tantalum caps. Though, if you hit someone with an XT motherboard, it hurts, I hear. www.oetech.com, Donald Orie, sells CAMAC and NIM stuff used. Nice guy, good stuff. Radiation spectroscopy is my most pointless hobby (4K channel MCA and a big scint, etc). From jwstephens at msm.umr.edu Mon Feb 23 16:41:28 2004 From: jwstephens at msm.umr.edu (jim) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:40 2005 Subject: Everex EV-831 References: <040223122329.2dc52@splab.cas.neu.edu> Message-ID: <403A8198.B0DADF45@msm.umr.edu> this is a copy of the backup and restore software. It will help to either use the drive for backups, or read backups created by this program. There are several versions of this, which support progressivly more versions of the hardware. There are the following variants of the hardware. Drive Qic2 interface, 50 pin ribbon, controller, qic2 to qic 24 (or whatever), AT adapter, Qic24 to AT bus Drive Qic 24, Adapter qic 24 to AT bus (this is a full length AT card) there are variants of the second where the controller is 2/3 length, but still AT to qic 24. There is also a series of drives from 60mb, 120mb, 125mb 150mb, which have similar base controller boards, but different firmware. I have not seen 250 and 625 mb in the qic format, but only scsi. the 60, 150, are also available in scsi. You might want to hunt down a drive compatable with your tapes and do scsi, as there are far more tools that will read raw tapes from aspi than from qic 2. Jim TRASH3@splab.cas.neu.edu wrote: > I have three 5.25 inch floppies that have the labels (copies): > EVEREX EXCEL STREAMING TAPE ST 4061 VER 4.06 EV0-00830-00 MAY 24 1988. > Disk 2 and 3 have similar labels, but are 4062 and 4063. Upon running > the tape program on disk 1, the options for hardware are: > Full Size QIC-36 tape controller board > Full Size cassette tape controller board > Half Size QIC-02 tape controller board > Diskette and QIC-02 board > 2/3 Size QIC-36 > Disk and QIC-36 > Disk and QIC-02 > > The program does not give model numbers, but shows a graphic of the board > and all the jumpers. > > Ya think this software will help you? > > Joe Heck From classiccmp at ian.viemeister.com Mon Feb 23 16:47:18 2004 From: classiccmp at ian.viemeister.com (Ian Viemeister) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:40 2005 Subject: OT: Need P/S specs for Power Sentry USB hub (was OT: Need HP In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 23 Feb 2004, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > Dunno if I've got the same model that you're both looking at, but the > > Power Sentry USB 2.0 hub I've got on my desk here does have a 5V, .3A, > > center positive wall wart. > Hooray! The amperage was the last missing piece of information. Allow me to quickly correct one error after looking more closely at the wall wart. The INPUT side is 0.3A at 110V AC. The OUTPUT side is 2.2A at 5V DC. Sorry about that. > Thanks! Not a problem, it just happened to be sitting in front of me. --Ian From tomj at wps.com Mon Feb 23 17:03:51 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:40 2005 Subject: Flash mob computing In-Reply-To: <403A750D.50709@atarimuseum.com> References: <403A750D.50709@atarimuseum.com> Message-ID: <1077576641.2072.50.camel@dhcp-251154> On Mon, 2004-02-23 at 13:47, Curt Vendel wrote: > I agree.... the fabled days of Supercomputers kinda died when the Cray's > became obsolete and lost their awe and allure... > >>http://www.flashmobcomputing.org/ 'supercomputing dates from WWII'? Did I miss a world war somewhere? There were massed arrays of computers then, but they ate lunch and slept at night, operated mechanical calculators and later got fired when computers of the automatic, digital, electronic type actually came into existence. flashmobcomputing seems very 1997. Note that out of all the FAQ data, there's no mention of what they intend to *accomplish*. From vcf at siconic.com Mon Feb 23 17:36:11 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:40 2005 Subject: lk401 keyboard protocol? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 23 Feb 2004, William Donzelli wrote: > > > to computer science? Are you suggesting we also sacrifice a virgin upon > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > > > the real problem with this scenario is *finding* one..... > > If you would settle for sacrificing a male virgin, I bet this list has > plenty. Right here. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Mon Feb 23 17:38:38 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:40 2005 Subject: OT: Need P/S specs for Power Sentry USB hub (was OT: Need HP In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 23 Feb 2004, Ian Viemeister wrote: > Allow me to quickly correct one error after looking more closely at the > wall wart. > > The INPUT side is 0.3A at 110V AC. > The OUTPUT side is 2.2A at 5V DC. > Sorry about that. Thanks for the correction. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Feb 23 17:42:59 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:40 2005 Subject: Everex EV-831 In-Reply-To: <403A1152.20308@atarimuseum.com> from "Curt Vendel" at Feb 23, 4 09:42:26 am Message-ID: > > Let me know how you make out with that Nico, Ive got like 3-4 of them > and some QIC02's as well. If that's the board I think it is, then it's actually ISA->QIC02 and QIC02->QIC36 interfaces on the same board. There's a tiny QIC02 bus in there... The design of the QIC02->QIC36 part is _very_ similar to a standalone QIC02->QIC36 interface I have -- I think it's badged Wangtek. I used that on my PERQ for a time, after patching the EPROM so that it defaulted to QIC11 format (whcih is what the PERQ distribution tapes are). -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Feb 23 17:49:27 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:40 2005 Subject: TCA240 pinout and a little data In-Reply-To: <1077559503.12903.24.camel@weka.localdomain> from "Jules Richardson" at Feb 23, 4 06:05:04 pm Message-ID: > > On Sat, 2004-02-21 at 22:56, Tony Duell wrote: > > Jules Richardson (IIRC) was asking about this chip to repair a classic > > computer peripheral (so it is on-topic)... > > > > I can't find it in a databook, but I've found a circuit that uses it -- > > the 'Head Amplifier Playback' module (board P50) in a Philips VR2020 VCR > > [1].It seems to contain 8 NPN transistors and nothing else (at least the > > schematic of that board shows the internals of the IC as 8 transistors > > only) and consists of 2 identical sections. Oops, I forgot the footnote. What I was going to say was : [1] This is a V2000 machine, not VHS. It has some lovely design features, like dynamic track following (the video heads are mounted on piezo crystals, and are deflected to follow the video tracks on the tape, much as a hard disk head is kept on-track. This gives a noise-free still frame, for example. There are 5 motors, and very few other mechanical parts in the machine. The only 'rubber part' is the pinch roller. Direct drive to the capstan, drum, and each of the spools (that's 4 of the motors -- the fifth is for tape threading). Backtension is applied by passing a small current through the supply spool motor. Oh, and the electronics is on a lot of plug-in cards. The service manual (I have said manual for the VR2020 and the slightly better VR2022, along with 2 of the latter machines) has a section for 'units' (tuner, RF modulator, backplane, etc) and as section for 'boards' (all the plug-in modules). > > That's brilliant, thanks. I assumed that whatever was going on in there > was coupled somehow, so treating it as two seperate arrays should make It's shown as 2 separate sections in this schematic. There may be caveats, like one of the pins connects to the substrate and must always be more +ve / more -ve than all the others, but this shouldn't cause problems in usderstanding the circuit. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Feb 23 17:54:50 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:40 2005 Subject: OT: Need P/S specs for Power Sentry USB hub (was OT: Need In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20040223143236.00ae24b0@mail.30below.com> from "Roger Merchberger" at Feb 23, 4 02:41:13 pm Message-ID: > AFAIK, *almost all* wallwarts were center positive. If the outer ring is > going to the ground plane, that *should* be the clincher, but... as they > say about assuming things... The problem comes what that design of connector (we call it a 'coaxial DC power connector over here') is used on a device that has internal batteries too. Theres's a switch contact which breaks when the plug is inserted, but that connects to the _outer_ contact of the plug. And conventionally, that switch is connected in the +ve line. Certainly a lot of devices over here are outer +ve... When 2.5mm or 3.5mm hack plugs (OK, mini and submini phone plugs to you), then it's conventional to have tip +ve. And the switch contact on those sockets is on the tip connection. A popular wall wart in the UK has a cross-shaped plug with the 4 arms being a 2.5mm jack, 3.5mm jack, 2.1mm (interal) coaxial power connector and a 2,5mm coaxial power connector. I've seen them where the tip of the jack plugs corresponts to the outer of the power connectors. Conversely, I've seen them where the tip of the jack plugs corresponds to the inner of the power connectors. The only way to be sure is to check it with a meter! > > The reason for this is supposed to be that if a barrel connector is > center-negative and is grounded, if the barrel touches any part of the > circuit that's grounded (which is usually a pretty fair amount) it will > short out the PS and possibly do bad things to the circuit. The risk is > _lessened_ when the barrel is negative. Indeed. There's also a panel mount version of the connector -- I use it quite a lot -- where the outer is connected to the panel mounting bush/nut. That had better be at ground potential ! -tony From dvcorbin at optonline.net Mon Feb 23 18:15:48 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:40 2005 Subject: Hollerith (was: lk401 keyboard protocol? In-Reply-To: <20040223102805.C92740@newshell.lmi.net> Message-ID: To those who (correctly) posted that I was off by 4 (16) years, you are all 100% correct. Mia Culpa. >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org >>> [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Fred Cisin >>> Sent: Monday, February 23, 2004 1:29 PM >>> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts >>> Subject: RE: Hollerith (was: lk401 keyboard protocol? >>> >>> Well, ... >>> not "Exactly!", since he was born in 1860, therefore it >>> would be 35, not >>> 39 (NB: 1900 was NOT a leap year) >>> >>> On Mon, 23 Feb 2004, David V. Corbin wrote: >>> >>> > Exactly! >>> > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- >>> > >>> From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org >>> > >>> [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of >>> > >>> blstuart@bellsouth.net >>> > >>> Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2004 11:11 PM >>> > >>> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts >>> > >>> Subject: Re: Hollerith (was: lk401 keyboard protocol? >>> > >>> >>> > >>> >> > > 39th? Shouldn't it be older than that? >>> > >>> >>> > >>> Methinks ol' Herman must have been born on February 29, 1848. >>> > >>> >>> > >>> Brian L. Stuart From menadeau at comcast.net Mon Feb 23 18:23:00 2004 From: menadeau at comcast.net (Michael Nadeau) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:40 2005 Subject: Flash mob computing References: Message-ID: <007001c3fa6c$5cf5cb10$0b01a8c0@Mike> College students at tech/engineering schools are all required to buy high-powered notebooks. I'm sure there are enough of them in the SF/Silicon Valley area to make this stunt feasible. --Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vintage Computer Festival" To: "Classic Computers Mailing List" Sent: Monday, February 23, 2004 5:17 AM Subject: Flash mob computing > > Interesting concept: get a bunch of people together who all have at least > a 1.3Ghz P-III (or AMD equivalent) laptop with at least 256MB RAM and a > 100baseT network connection and hook them all together to try to get onto > the list of the world's 500 fastest supercomputers: > > http://www.flashmobcomputing.org/ > > Maybe I'm behind the times, but I don't think that many people can afford > such a laptop right around now. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage mputers ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > > From pat at computer-refuge.org Mon Feb 23 16:40:24 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:40 2005 Subject: Flash mob computing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200402231740.24968.pat@computer-refuge.org> Vintage Computer Festival declared on Monday 23 February 2004 05:03 pm: > On Mon, 23 Feb 2004, William Donzelli wrote: > > Supercomputers are dead. Or at least the magic aura of > > supercomputers. > > Sure, but massively parallel is still quite vivacious as far as I can > tell. Supercomputers are following a trend we've seen already with "office computing". Office-computing as I'll call it for lack of a better name, started out as the IBM mainframe (or Unisys or Univac or ...) sitting in the machine room at the 'center' of the corporate infrastructure, and was gradually more attached to users; still the vast majority of number crunching stayed in one central location. Next was the outflux of independent (non-interconnected or loosly-connected) PCs that at most had some ethernet connecting them together, in a mostly peer-to-peer type fashion, with the situation now at a point where there's vast tracts of PCs with some high-horsepower 'magic glue' at the center holding them together (stuff like print servers, disk servers, web servers, etc). Likewise, we've seen Supercomputing go from very centralized machines - vector processors like the Cray-1, Astronautics ZS-1, CDC Cyber 205, etc. - to clusters of machines such as the ever-present (typically Linux-based) clusters of machines that are fairly symmetric and don't have a whole lot of glue, other than shared filesystems and network switches, between them. This stage is like the outflux of PCs in the 80s to early 90s. This also includes other things like IBM's SP-type systems, Sequent (now IBM) NUMA-Q stuff, the Sun F6800's we've now got at work with their "Fire Link" intereconnect, etc. The next stage (which some are working on, like the people at Cray) is going to be a more asymmetric distributed machine, looking somewhat like the current corporate IT infrastructure of a bunch of remote PCs or thin clients that are fairly dumb with some high-horsepower backends[1]. Basically, you'll have lots of small, fairly stupid processors that are tightly coupled to some segment of memory, with some smaller number of "master" processors that "farm out" jobs to them to do on their segment of memory. So, basically, a tree-looking infrastructure with memory at the bottom, memory coupled processors above that, and above that system controllers that control things like I/O and manage the memory-coupled processors. So far, IBM is coming somewhat close to this model with their BlueGene systems that they're working on, and Cray has a project that is funded by DARPA (or someone else at that level of the government) which is going in that direction - Burton Smith (if I've got his name correctly), the senior engineer from Cray, came to Purdue to discuss this project towards the end of last year. Well, enough looking into the crystal ball for now. Time for me to get back to studying/planning what to do with my 11/750. Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From pat at computer-refuge.org Mon Feb 23 16:51:45 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:40 2005 Subject: Flash mob computing In-Reply-To: <200402231740.24968.pat@computer-refuge.org> References: <200402231740.24968.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: <200402231751.45848.pat@computer-refuge.org> Oops forgot the footnote (seems to be a trend around here today) Patrick Finnegan declared on Monday 23 February 2004 05:40 pm: > somewhat like the current corporate IT infrastructure of a bunch of > remote PCs or thin clients that are fairly dumb with some > high-horsepower backends[1]. Basically, you'll have lots of small, [1] Yes, this is an over-simplification and generalization, but I'm speaking more to general trends of the industry than to any specific instances. Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Feb 23 18:55:57 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:40 2005 Subject: lk401 keyboard protocol? In-Reply-To: <013901c3fa48$4ded6a20$f35c4ed5@geoff> References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040223195557.0083dda0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 08:03 PM 2/23/04 +0000, Geoff wrote: > >> Why the hell do we care what the ancient pagans realized in relation >> to computer science? Are you suggesting we also sacrifice a virgin upon >> our keyboards whenever we begin a new project? > >Define keyboard , define sacrifice. At least he knows what a virgin is! :-) Joe From dvcorbin at optonline.net Mon Feb 23 19:15:47 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:40 2005 Subject: lk401 keyboard protocol? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040223195557.0083dda0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: >>>At least he knows what a virgin is! :-) Someone who has never programmed directly at a binary level, right? From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Mon Feb 23 19:30:21 2004 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:40 2005 Subject: Everex EV-831 In-Reply-To: <403A59D0.3812728B@msm.umr.edu> References: <200401030646.i036k6CZ022224@spies.com> <000c01c3f9fc$5eccc9e0$2201a8c0@finans> <403A1152.20308@atarimuseum.com> <403A59D0.3812728B@msm.umr.edu> Message-ID: <200402231730210889.16A9BF12@192.168.42.129> Hi, gang, *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 23-Feb-04 at 11:51 jim wrote: >there weren't a lot of dos drivers for the 831. The everex backup and >restore program pretty much was the way that you used the tape drive under DOS. > >I don't recall if everex made available drivers, or if you had to come by >them on your own. Fortunately, I used to run that setup in an old system I once had. I just sent Nico some ZIPfiles from my archives that should do the trick. Yes, Everex did, at one time, provide drivers. However, the tape software manufacturers, such as Sydex and Mountain, also incorporated such into their backup software. I'm glad I've turned into such a pack rat... It's amazing what can help someone out these days... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech do/t c=o=m "If Salvador Dali had owned a computer, would it have been equipped with surreal ports?" From kenziem at sympatico.ca Mon Feb 23 20:00:22 2004 From: kenziem at sympatico.ca (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:40 2005 Subject: gandalf modems for 4-wire unloaded copper? Message-ID: <200402232100.22818.kenziem@sympatico.ca> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Is there any interest is such beasts? Mike - -- Ottawa, Canada Collector of vintage computers http://www.ncf.ca/~ba600 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFAOrA2LPrIaE/xBZARAmm+AJ9BR2QFdQreualeuf/2KdR28bH1YgCdFQHS nYdxg0UupzyqUyEdgvPVpHE= =Si4n -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From curt at atarimuseum.com Mon Feb 23 20:06:45 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:41 2005 Subject: gandalf modems for 4-wire unloaded copper? In-Reply-To: <200402232100.22818.kenziem@sympatico.ca> References: <200402232100.22818.kenziem@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <403AB1B5.3070106@atarimuseum.com> Those are the long hauls, right? Wow I haven't heard that name in a decade.... Curt Mike wrote: >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >Hash: SHA1 > >Is there any interest is such beasts? > >Mike > >- -- >Ottawa, Canada > >Collector of vintage computers >http://www.ncf.ca/~ba600 >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- >Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux) > >iD8DBQFAOrA2LPrIaE/xBZARAmm+AJ9BR2QFdQreualeuf/2KdR28bH1YgCdFQHS >nYdxg0UupzyqUyEdgvPVpHE= >=Si4n >-----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > > > > -- Curt Vendel & Karl Morris ----------------------------------------------------------------------- The Atari Museum http://www.atarimuseum.com The Atari Explorer http://www.atari-explorer.com From kittstr at access-4-free.com Sun Feb 22 21:59:15 2004 From: kittstr at access-4-free.com (Andrew Strouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:41 2005 Subject: Aargh...It never ends.. References: Message-ID: <001601c3fa7e$ae92b7a0$2d4e4a43@amscomputer> I guess you're right, I liked the early days better. When he would add a neat story and explain what he was doing in the voice over. Towards the end, it was getting fairly bad, but there are still loyal viewers. As for the dynamite, that was episode 8, "Hellfire". He was trying to cap an oil-well fire. They needed the nitroglycerin from the dynamite to make a bomb to stop the fire. One drops the bomb in the middle of the fire, causing an explosion, which sucks up all the oxygen and the fire goes out. You are right however, that he probably could have come up with a better home made explosive, and they wouldn't have needed to get the dynamite out of the shed. My life is still pretty boring, so I can still watch these shows without too much cringing. Andrew Strouse ( kittstr@access-4-free.com ) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vintage Computer Festival" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2004 7:30 PM Subject: Re: Aargh...It never ends.. > On Sun, 22 Feb 2004, Andrew Strouse wrote: > > > Sellam wrote: > > > (I'm amazed that there are fan pages for this show.) > > > > Why's that? I've got every episode and the 2 movies on VCD. Taped them off > > USA and TV Land. He did use a car battery charger and 2 half dollars to > > weld up a piston on an irrigation pump in episode 6, "Trumbo's World". And > > no, he didn't have a welding mask :-) > > Why? Because in the past month I happened to catch snippets of two > different episodes and found them to be so mortally cheesy as to wonder > how it ever made it into the 3rd, 4th, or even 5th and 6th season, and > what I ever saw in them. > > But that's what happens to any good show. It starts to go downhill after > a while. > > When I was watching it back in the day, I remember MacGyver explaining > everything he was doing in a voiceover, which was very educational. In > the episodes I saw, he was just doing stupid things like trying to remove > fifty year old dynamite from a hundred year old shed and trying now to > fall through the floor boards and thus set off the dynamite. Why didn't > he do something MacGyver-like, such as finding some nearby plants with the > right neurtralizing elements and concoct a substance that he could then > spray onto the dynamite using a spray bottle that he manufactured out of a > bicycle inner tube? That's what the OLD MacGyver I remember would've > done. > > I forget why they needed to remove the dynamite in the first place. In > fact, there really was no reason to remove the dynamite, other than to add > a lame cliff-hanger scene to the show. > > Anyway, it's probably better that I don't try to catch any more episodes > of MacGyver. I guess my life now is so much more exciting than it used to > be that MacGyver now seems lame in comparison. > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage mputers ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > From kenziem at sympatico.ca Mon Feb 23 20:50:29 2004 From: kenziem at sympatico.ca (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:41 2005 Subject: gandalf modems for 4-wire unloaded copper? In-Reply-To: <403AB1B5.3070106@atarimuseum.com> References: <200402232100.22818.kenziem@sympatico.ca> <403AB1B5.3070106@atarimuseum.com> Message-ID: <200402232150.29942.kenziem@sympatico.ca> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Monday 23 February 2004 21:06, Curt Vendel wrote: > Those are the long hauls, right? Wow I haven't heard that name in a > decade.... They are an LDS120A and LDS309, The current owner will strip them if there is no interest. - -- Ottawa, Canada Collector of vintage computers http://www.ncf.ca/~ba600 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFAOrv1LPrIaE/xBZARArofAJ0TENY1Z2182xU5fgUAE6GfRcHyIQCdGGvN L+osFnXqEIOsv1G72f3i/WA= =YvJK -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From TRASH3 at splab.cas.neu.edu Mon Feb 23 22:41:21 2004 From: TRASH3 at splab.cas.neu.edu (TRASH3@splab.cas.neu.edu) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:41 2005 Subject: Everex EV-831 Message-ID: <040223234121.2de75@splab.cas.neu.edu> I will try to find time on Wednesday (the next day I am at the site where the floppies are) to zip them up and then I'll contact those interested off the list. joe heck From vze2wsvr at verizon.net Mon Feb 23 22:58:02 2004 From: vze2wsvr at verizon.net (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:41 2005 Subject: Smoke Signal Broadcasting BFD-68 Floppy Disk Controller In-Reply-To: <070a01c1ab3f$adc85040$9101a8c0@mn> References: <3.0.6.32.20020201074306.007e0640@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3C5AB2D5.73A642D4@Vishay.com> <070a01c1ab3f$adc85040$9101a8c0@mn> Message-ID: <403AD9DA.2000708@verizon.net> I'm trying to find information on the BFD-68 disk controller card. I have information of the BFD-68 Rev. A card. It has three connectors at the top of the card. See this link: http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze2wsvr/BFD_68A_diagram2.jpg The one I want has only the single connector on the top left. The schematic for the BFD-68 Rev. A is here: http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze2wsvr/BFD_68A_schematic2.jpg I'm looking for the same information (board diagram and schematic) for the non-version A card. Thanks, Eric From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Mon Feb 23 23:02:44 2004 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:41 2005 Subject: REPOST: Re: VAX 11/750 tu58 images In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200402240512.AAA04111@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> >> It's hard for me to "multitask" with a VT220, etc the same way I can >> with a GUI. > Well, you can "multitask" on a DEC VT520 (multiple session support > plus 3 interfaces on the back). > I still have a few left I'm selling for $25 plus shipping. Inquire > within ;) Sellam, Sellam, Sellam. You gotta stop offering such neat toys at such low prices. I had to speak quite strictly to myself to stop me from asking you for one, even though I've got way too much stuff I've no real use for already. (I seem to have succeeded, though, in talking myself out of it....) /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Tue Feb 24 00:40:01 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:41 2005 Subject: Flash mob computing In-Reply-To: <1077576641.2072.50.camel@dhcp-251154> References: <403A750D.50709@atarimuseum.com> <1077576641.2072.50.camel@dhcp-251154> Message-ID: <1077579158.12904.39.camel@weka.localdomain> On Mon, 2004-02-23 at 22:50, Tom Jennings wrote: > On Mon, 2004-02-23 at 13:47, Curt Vendel wrote: > > I agree.... the fabled days of Supercomputers kinda died when the Cray's > > became obsolete and lost their awe and allure... > > > >>http://www.flashmobcomputing.org/ > > 'supercomputing dates from WWII'? Did I miss a world war somewhere? > There were massed arrays of computers then, but they ate lunch and slept > at night, operated mechanical calculators and later got fired when > computers of the automatic, digital, electronic type actually came into > existence. Well Bletchley ran 10 MKII Colossus machines breaking Lorenz ciphers by the end of WWII; I'm not sure if those exactly qualify as supercomputers but it's a far cry from humans using mere machanical calculators. I'm not sure of valve count on the later machines but the MKI was around 1500 valves. Output was by hardcopy; input was via a paper tape reader running at 5000cps - not bad for 1940's technology. Programming was via plugboard; there was no concept of machine memory back then. It gets nice and cosy in the room housing the rebuilt Colossus example from all those valves :) cheers Jules From vcf at siconic.com Tue Feb 24 00:44:59 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:41 2005 Subject: REPOST: Re: VAX 11/750 tu58 images In-Reply-To: <200402240512.AAA04111@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: On Tue, 24 Feb 2004, der Mouse wrote: > >> It's hard for me to "multitask" with a VT220, etc the same way I can > >> with a GUI. > > > Well, you can "multitask" on a DEC VT520 (multiple session support > > plus 3 interfaces on the back). > > > I still have a few left I'm selling for $25 plus shipping. Inquire > > within ;) > > Sellam, Sellam, Sellam. You gotta stop offering such neat toys at such > low prices. I had to speak quite strictly to myself to stop me from > asking you for one, even though I've got way too much stuff I've no > real use for already. (I seem to have succeeded, though, in talking > myself out of it....) Heh heh heh. The allure of my wares is too strong. They are so nice yet so cheap...ooooooooh. The very thought of having your own VT520 soothes your soul. And lo! One is available on the Vintage Computer Marketplace: http://marketplace.vintage.org/view.cfm?ad=431 Go now. Go now and take this beautiful gift unto your browser and click the buy button... Go... -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From helinji at ureach.com Mon Feb 23 20:59:51 2004 From: helinji at ureach.com (Henry Ji) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:41 2005 Subject: HP9121 Message-ID: <200402240259.VAA16678@www22.ureach.com> Hello Lee, Would you consider selling this? I am checking how it is different from HP PN: 09114-69511. If it is same, I am interestede in buying it. Regards Henry HP 9121 Davison, Lee cctech@classiccmp.org Tue Jun 10 10:55:45 2003 Previous message: [Fwd: [Siglinux] Symbolics Lisp machine to a good home] Next message: HP 9121 Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- While dumpster diving at the end of a radio rally (what, doesn't everyone do this?) I found, in with the usual PC scrap, an HP 9121 dual disk unit. The unit powers and a small LED flashes five times but that's as far as I've got because I've not got anything to plug it into. I take it I can use DSDD 3.5" disks in this and that with a General Instrument HPIB card and some hand rolled code I can try it out. Anyone done this? Any pointers to where to start? Any online docs for the command set/protocols? Cheers, Lee. ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________ Get your own "800" number Voicemail, fax, email, and a lot more http://www.ureach.com/reg/tag From bob at copenhagen.cuug.ab.ca Mon Feb 23 23:50:41 2004 From: bob at copenhagen.cuug.ab.ca (Bob Bramwell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:41 2005 Subject: FCC IDs for Xerox DandeTigers ...? Message-ID: <200402240551.i1O5ofP6015154@copenhagen.cuug.ab.ca> Oh great Gurus of Obscure Facts: Does anyone happen to have at their fingertips any FCC ID information about the Xerox 8000 or 1108 series hardware and the monitors that go with it? I am about to ship a couple of these babies to Tony Eros (member of this list) and I may need this info to get the customs people to let them through. Many thanks in advance, Bob. Bob Bramwell 60 Baker Cr. NW | What would happen if they cloned ProntoLogical Calgary, AB | Schrodinger's Cat? +1 403/861-8827 T2L 1R4, Canada | - Andrew Spiers, Oxford U. From waltje at pdp11.nl Tue Feb 24 02:40:53 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:41 2005 Subject: Saint Sellam? (Re: REPOST: Re: VAX 11/750 tu58 images) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 23 Feb 2004, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > Heh heh heh. The allure of my wares is too strong. They are so nice yet > so cheap...ooooooooh. The very thought of having your own VT520 soothes > your soul. And lo! One is available on the Vintage Computer Marketplace: > > http://marketplace.vintage.org/view.cfm?ad=431 > > Go now. Go now and take this beautiful gift unto your browser and click > the buy button... Go... Dude... you're spending WAY too much time watching Church-TV .. --f From veeke200 at tech.nhl.nl Tue Feb 24 03:09:12 2004 From: veeke200 at tech.nhl.nl (veeke200@tech.nhl.nl) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:41 2005 Subject: read it immediately Message-ID: <200402240918.i1O9If7F097648@huey.classiccmp.org> here it is From Edward.Tillman at valero.com Tue Feb 24 03:08:02 2004 From: Edward.Tillman at valero.com (Tillman, Edward) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:41 2005 Subject: read it immediately Message-ID: <02FD5E2FB50CB34F944D474A6949B92945D198@mssahq04.corp.valero.com> ??? Ed Tillman Store Automation Tech Support Specialist Valero Energy Corporation San Antonio, Texas, USA Office: (210)592-3110, Fax (210)592-2048 Email: edward.tillman@valero.com -----Original Message----- From: veeke200@tech.nhl.nl [mailto:veeke200@tech.nhl.nl] Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2004 3:09 AM To: cctech@classiccmp.org Subject: read it immediately here it is From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Tue Feb 24 03:00:48 2004 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:41 2005 Subject: Flash mob computing In-Reply-To: <200402231740.24968.pat@computer-refuge.org> References: <200402231740.24968.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: <20040224100048.035fa6ad.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 17:40:24 -0500 Patrick Finnegan wrote: > Likewise, we've seen Supercomputing go from very centralized machines > - vector processors like the Cray-1, Astronautics ZS-1, CDC Cyber 205, > etc. - to clusters of machines such as the ever-present (typically > Linux-based) clusters of machines that are fairly symmetric and don't > have a whole lot of glue, other than shared filesystems and network > switches, between them. This stage is like the outflux of PCs in the > 80s to early 90s. This also includes other things like IBM's SP-type > systems, Sequent (now IBM) NUMA-Q stuff, the Sun F6800's we've now got > at work with their "Fire Link" intereconnect, etc. I have to disagree here. There is an important difference between a "Linux cluster supercomuter" and a NUMA machine like e.g. the SGI Origin / Onyx: A Linux cluster consists of independent, loosely coupled machines with independent main memory, each runing it own operating system instance. A NUMA machine consists of tight coupled compute / IO units, runing a single operating system instance on all CPUs and a global shared memory. Big NUMA machines are IMHO supercomuters, where Linux PeeCee clusters are not. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From e.huininga at sozawe.groningen.nl Tue Feb 24 04:46:43 2004 From: e.huininga at sozawe.groningen.nl (Eelco Huininga) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:41 2005 Subject: read it immediately Message-ID: This is a virus-generated mail. It's generated by the W32/Netsky.b@MM virus. Looks like someone hasn't updated his/hers virusscanner :-) >>> "Tillman, Edward" 02/24 10:08 >>> ??? Ed Tillman Store Automation Tech Support Specialist Valero Energy Corporation San Antonio, Texas, USA Office: (210)592-3110, Fax (210)592-2048 Email: edward.tillman@valero.com -----Original Message----- From: veeke200@tech.nhl.nl [mailto:veeke200@tech.nhl.nl] Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2004 3:09 AM To: cctech@classiccmp.org Subject: read it immediately here it is From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue Feb 24 05:18:26 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:41 2005 Subject: MSCP protocol docs Message-ID: <10402241118.ZM6980@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Several weeks ago the subject of MSCP docs came up. I think there may be a scanned copy of AA-L619A-TK (MSCP Basic Disk Functions Manual) out there somewhere, though I can't find it, but not, AFAIK, AA-L620A-TK (Storage Systems Diagnostics and Utility Protocol) and AA-L621A-TK (Storage System Unibus Port Description). These are the three components of the UDA50 Progammer's Kit, QP-905-GZ (which, despite the name, isn't really UDA50-specific) I have all three. Anyone in the UK or Netherlands want to scan them? The three documents are respectively 170pp, 46pp, and 58pp. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pat at computer-refuge.org Tue Feb 24 06:46:02 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:41 2005 Subject: Flash mob computing In-Reply-To: <20040224100048.035fa6ad.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> References: <200402231740.24968.pat@computer-refuge.org> <20040224100048.035fa6ad.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <200402240746.02549.pat@computer-refuge.org> On Tuesday 24 February 2004 04:00, Jochen Kunz wrote: > CPUs and a global shared memory. Big NUMA machines are IMHO > supercomuters, where Linux PeeCee clusters are not. I think that (to most people, and probably not to people on this list) that there's not that same distiction. Anyways, I said a trend in Supercomputing[1] not a trend in Supercomputers[2]. [1] "Thing" that collectively can do work together and attain speeds of multi-Gflops that are high enough to make the TOP500 list. [2]"Cool computers" I'd like to own and that Dave McGuire has in his livingroom (and other rooms as I hear) of his house. Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From SPEDRAJA at ono.com Tue Feb 24 07:44:29 2004 From: SPEDRAJA at ono.com (Sergio Pedraja Cabo) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:41 2005 Subject: Weird Message-ID: <2684d92674e8.2674e82684d9@ono.com> Hello all: Take a moment to visit this place, please: http://newdos.yginfo.net/msdos71/ I did it, downloaded it, installed it in one Pentium III, one Pentium IV and under Bochs. Works. In the Pentium IV case, I can access the NTFS partition. Cheers Sergio From pkoning at equallogic.com Tue Feb 24 09:21:22 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:41 2005 Subject: FCC IDs for Xerox DandeTigers ...? References: <200402240551.i1O5ofP6015154@copenhagen.cuug.ab.ca> Message-ID: <16443.27634.522000.266265@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Bob" == Bob Bramwell writes: Bob> Oh great Gurus of Obscure Facts: Does anyone happen to have at Bob> their fingertips any FCC ID information about the Xerox 8000 or Bob> 1108 series hardware and the monitors that go with it? I am Bob> about to ship a couple of these babies to Tony Eros (member of Bob> this list) and I may need this info to get the customs people to Bob> let them through. When were those built? If it was before the early 1980s, there wasn't any such thing as an FCC ID. If one was assigned it should be on one of the stickers on the box, near the model and serial numbers. If it's newer than that, you might be able to extract it from an FCC database that supposedly exists on-line with this stuff in it, but I know no details about that. Why would customs care? paul From brianmahoney at look.ca Tue Feb 24 09:34:51 2004 From: brianmahoney at look.ca (Brian Mahoney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:41 2005 Subject: Weird References: <2684d92674e8.2674e82684d9@ono.com> Message-ID: <002201c3faeb$d05b2a80$0200a8c0@look.ca> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sergio Pedraja Cabo" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2004 8:44 AM Subject: Weird > Hello all: > > Take a moment to visit this place, please: > > http://newdos.yginfo.net/msdos71/ > > I did it, downloaded it, installed it in one Pentium III, one > Pentium IV and under Bochs. Works. In the Pentium IV case, > I can access the NTFS partition. > > Cheers > > Sergio Seems that this is a compiled version, not a real Msoft version although the bits and pieces are all original Msoft bits. Not sure that it's for older machines though. Thanks for the link. It's amazing that Gates hasn't shut this down. B.M. From nico at farumdata.dk Tue Feb 24 09:44:01 2004 From: nico at farumdata.dk (Nico de Jong) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:41 2005 Subject: Everex EV-831 References: <040223122329.2dc52@splab.cas.neu.edu> Message-ID: <001a01c3faed$0658c560$2201a8c0@finans> > I have three 5.25 inch floppies that have the labels (copies): > EVEREX EXCEL STREAMING TAPE ST 4061 VER 4.06 EV0-00830-00 MAY 24 1988. > The program does not give model numbers, but shows a graphic of the board > and all the jumpers. > Could you please describe the possible values for the jumpers, and especially for the dipswitches ? Thjanks Nico From dwoyciesjes at comcast.net Tue Feb 24 09:48:08 2004 From: dwoyciesjes at comcast.net (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:41 2005 Subject: Weird References: <2684d92674e8.2674e82684d9@ono.com> <002201c3faeb$d05b2a80$0200a8c0@look.ca> Message-ID: <403B7238.6E40836F@comcast.net> Brian Mahoney wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Sergio Pedraja Cabo" > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2004 8:44 AM > Subject: Weird > > > Hello all: > > > > Take a moment to visit this place, please: > > > > http://newdos.yginfo.net/msdos71/ > > > > I did it, downloaded it, installed it in one Pentium III, one > > Pentium IV and under Bochs. Works. In the Pentium IV case, > > I can access the NTFS partition. > > > > Cheers > > > > Sergio > Seems that this is a compiled version, not a real Msoft version although the > bits and pieces are all original Msoft bits. Not sure that it's for older > machines though. > Thanks for the link. It's amazing that Gates hasn't shut this down. > B.M. Yeah, I'm wondering on how old of a machine it will run on. I have a Cardinal 386 all-in-one (yep, it looks like a Mac SE/30, just a little bigger) computer sitting around looking for a purpose... -- --- Dave Woyciesjes --- ICQ# 905818 From jrice54 at charter.net Tue Feb 24 10:11:44 2004 From: jrice54 at charter.net (James Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:41 2005 Subject: Weird In-Reply-To: <002201c3faeb$d05b2a80$0200a8c0@look.ca> References: <2684d92674e8.2674e82684d9@ono.com> <002201c3faeb$d05b2a80$0200a8c0@look.ca> Message-ID: <403B77C0.7010707@charter.net> Notice the credit to the China DOS Union on the bottom of the page. Brian Mahoney wrote: >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Sergio Pedraja Cabo" >To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > >Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2004 8:44 AM >Subject: Weird > > > > >>Hello all: >> >>Take a moment to visit this place, please: >> >> http://newdos.yginfo.net/msdos71/ >> >>I did it, downloaded it, installed it in one Pentium III, one >>Pentium IV and under Bochs. Works. In the Pentium IV case, >>I can access the NTFS partition. >> >>Cheers >> >>Sergio >> >> >Seems that this is a compiled version, not a real Msoft version although the >bits and pieces are all original Msoft bits. Not sure that it's for older >machines though. >Thanks for the link. It's amazing that Gates hasn't shut this down. >B.M. > > > > -- http://webpages.charter.net/jrice54/classiccomp2.html From bob at copenhagen.cuug.ab.ca Tue Feb 24 10:19:02 2004 From: bob at copenhagen.cuug.ab.ca (Bob Bramwell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:41 2005 Subject: FCC IDs for Xerox DandeTigers ...? Message-ID: <200402241619.i1OGJ1P6017732@copenhagen.cuug.ab.ca> They were probably built around 1983 or so. As for why the customs care... I dunno: they just do. Every time I have to ship stuff to the U.S. I have to provide copies of form FCC 740 (Statement regarding the Importation of Radio Frequency Devices Capable of causing Harmful Interference) for monitors and computers. Sometimes (and I'll have to figure out exactly what the circumstances are) I also need a form FD 2877 (Food & Drug Administration: Declaraion for Products Subject to Radiation Control Standards). And you thought Canadian bureaucracy was bad! Anyway, thanks for the info. I'll fill out the forms accordingly and hope for the best. >Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 10:21:22 -0500 >From: Paul Koning >To: bob@copenhagen.cuug.ab.ca, cctalk@classiccmp.org >Cc: cctech@classiccmp.org >Subject: Re: FCC IDs for Xerox DandeTigers ...? > >>>>>> "Bob" == Bob Bramwell writes: > > Bob> Oh great Gurus of Obscure Facts: Does anyone happen to have at > Bob> their fingertips any FCC ID information about the Xerox 8000 or > Bob> 1108 series hardware and the monitors that go with it? I am > Bob> about to ship a couple of these babies to Tony Eros (member of > Bob> this list) and I may need this info to get the customs people to > Bob> let them through. > >When were those built? If it was before the early 1980s, there wasn't >any such thing as an FCC ID. If one was assigned it should be on one >of the stickers on the box, near the model and serial numbers. > >If it's newer than that, you might be able to extract it from an FCC >database that supposedly exists on-line with this stuff in it, but I >know no details about that. > >Why would customs care? > > paul > Bob Bramwell 60 Baker Cr. NW | What would happen if they cloned ProntoLogical Calgary, AB | Schrodinger's Cat? +1 403/861-8827 T2L 1R4, Canada | - Andrew Spiers, Oxford U. From lists at microvax.org Tue Feb 24 10:24:43 2004 From: lists at microvax.org (meltie) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:41 2005 Subject: MSCP protocol docs In-Reply-To: <10402241118.ZM6980@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <10402241118.ZM6980@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <200402241624.43372.lists@microvax.org> On Tuesday 24 February 2004 11:18, Pete Turnbull wrote: > Several weeks ago the subject of MSCP docs came up. I think there may > be a scanned copy of AA-L619A-TK (MSCP Basic Disk Functions Manual) out > there somewhere, though I can't find it, but not, AFAIK, AA-L620A-TK > (Storage Systems Diagnostics and Utility Protocol) and AA-L621A-TK > (Storage System Unibus Port Description). These are the three > components of the UDA50 Progammer's Kit, QP-905-GZ (which, despite the > name, isn't really UDA50-specific) > > I have all three. Anyone in the UK or Netherlands want to scan them? > The three documents are respectively 170pp, 46pp, and 58pp. I've got a scanned PDF of AA-L619A-TK MSCP Basic Disk Functions Manual, which does indeed cover Basic MSCP Disk Functions. It's a fairly poor copy under Adobe PDF Reader for UNIX, but in Ghostview it's perfectly readable. I was thinking about getting it run off as hardcopy somewhere, but prices at Leeds/Leeds Met printshops are extortionate! The MSCP Basic Disk Functions manual is hosted at http://www.microvax.org/awx/computers/VAXen/ alex/melt From vcf at siconic.com Tue Feb 24 10:37:02 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:41 2005 Subject: Saint Sellam? (Re: REPOST: Re: VAX 11/750 tu58 images) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 24 Feb 2004, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > On Mon, 23 Feb 2004, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > > Heh heh heh. The allure of my wares is too strong. They are so nice yet > > so cheap...ooooooooh. The very thought of having your own VT520 soothes > > your soul. And lo! One is available on the Vintage Computer Marketplace: > > > > http://marketplace.vintage.org/view.cfm?ad=431 > > > > Go now. Go now and take this beautiful gift unto your browser and click > > the buy button... Go... > Dude... you're spending WAY too much time watching Church-TV .. I'm converting the VCF into an evagelical religious organization. It doesn't matter how you get rich, just that you are, so the means justify the ends ;) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Tue Feb 24 10:40:26 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:41 2005 Subject: FCC IDs for Xerox DandeTigers ...? In-Reply-To: <16443.27634.522000.266265@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: On Tue, 24 Feb 2004, Paul Koning wrote: > When were those built? If it was before the early 1980s, there wasn't > any such thing as an FCC ID. If one was assigned it should be on one > of the stickers on the box, near the model and serial numbers. These machines are 1981ish. > Why would customs care? Because they're customs :) Probably to verify the date of manufacture to prove the contention that these are old, obsolete computer items that nobody would pay good money for (and it's true!) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Tue Feb 24 10:42:14 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:41 2005 Subject: Weird In-Reply-To: <2684d92674e8.2674e82684d9@ono.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 24 Feb 2004, Sergio Pedraja Cabo wrote: > Hello all: > > Take a moment to visit this place, please: > > http://newdos.yginfo.net/msdos71/ > > I did it, downloaded it, installed it in one Pentium III, one > Pentium IV and under Bochs. Works. In the Pentium IV case, > I can access the NTFS partition. Seems rather trojany to me (especially with the self-describing "Hot!" labels next to each link). I don't download any software no matter how cool it sounds unless it's from a trusted source. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From jpl15 at panix.com Tue Feb 24 11:02:39 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:41 2005 Subject: PING Peter Wallace Message-ID: Email me off-list please - somehow I have deleted your email addr.. Cheers John From pkoning at equallogic.com Tue Feb 24 11:16:10 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:41 2005 Subject: FCC IDs for Xerox DandeTigers ...? References: <16443.27634.522000.266265@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <16443.34522.979589.448353@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Vintage" == Vintage Computer Festival writes: Vintage> On Tue, 24 Feb 2004, Paul Koning wrote: >> When were those built? If it was before the early 1980s, there >> wasn't any such thing as an FCC ID. If one was assigned it should >> be on one of the stickers on the box, near the model and serial >> numbers. Vintage> These machines are 1981ish. That predates the FCC regulations about emissions, which is what the FCC ID stickers is all about. So they should be grandfathered. paul From sebastian.brueckner at epost.de Tue Feb 24 11:40:39 2004 From: sebastian.brueckner at epost.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Sebastian_Br=FCckner?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:41 2005 Subject: Unknown QBUS board In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <403B8C97.2080700@epost.de> Hi! CRC wrote: > You have the Qbus part (KSC2922) of a KSC2922/3922, Qbus CAMAC > interface. CAMAC (Computer Automated Measurement And Control) is an > instrumentation system extensively used in the nuclear/high energy area. If anyone has any use for this board, tell me. I guess I will never need it :-) Sebastian From paul at frixxon.co.uk Tue Feb 24 11:56:09 2004 From: paul at frixxon.co.uk (Paul Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:41 2005 Subject: MSCP protocol docs In-Reply-To: <10402241118.ZM6980@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <10402241118.ZM6980@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <403B9039.8080906@frixxon.co.uk> Pete Turnbull wrote: > Several weeks ago the subject of MSCP docs came up. I think there may > be a scanned copy of AA-L619A-TK (MSCP Basic Disk Functions Manual) out > there somewhere, though I can't find it It was available at www.pdp11.nl, though that site is still down. Neither of the other two are online, according to Manx. > I have all three. Anyone in the UK or Netherlands want to scan them? > The three documents are respectively 170pp, 46pp, and 58pp. I can scan the other two. Did someone scan the 4FDC manual for you? I offered, in private email, but received no response. -- Paul From lists at microvax.org Tue Feb 24 12:05:29 2004 From: lists at microvax.org (meltie) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:41 2005 Subject: MSCP protocol docs In-Reply-To: <403B9039.8080906@frixxon.co.uk> References: <10402241118.ZM6980@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <403B9039.8080906@frixxon.co.uk> Message-ID: <200402241805.29955.lists@microvax.org> On Tuesday 24 February 2004 17:56, Paul Williams wrote: > Pete Turnbull wrote: > > Several weeks ago the subject of MSCP docs came up. I think there may > > be a scanned copy of AA-L619A-TK (MSCP Basic Disk Functions Manual) > > out there somewhere, though I can't find it > > It was available at www.pdp11.nl, though that site is still down. > Neither of the other two are online, according to Manx. > > > I have all three. Anyone in the UK or Netherlands want to scan them? > > The three documents are respectively 170pp, 46pp, and 58pp. > > I can scan the other two. Did someone scan the 4FDC manual for you? I > offered, in private email, but received no response. Scan all three? How big an investment in time & money is it? This version's not too great... alex/melt From paul at frixxon.co.uk Tue Feb 24 12:24:50 2004 From: paul at frixxon.co.uk (Paul Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:41 2005 Subject: MSCP protocol docs In-Reply-To: <200402241805.29955.lists@microvax.org> References: <10402241118.ZM6980@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <403B9039.8080906@frixxon.co.uk> <200402241805.29955.lists@microvax.org> Message-ID: <403B96F2.1020903@frixxon.co.uk> meltie wrote: > > Scan all three? How big an investment in time & money is it? This version's > not too great... I don't have any problems reading that version using Acrobat 5.0.8 on Linux, but the PDF is rather large, so I have no objection to re-scanning it. Time won't be an issue when dabs.com finally deliver my A3 scanner with ADF. -- Paul From buzzer1 at poczta.onet.pl Tue Feb 24 10:42:49 2004 From: buzzer1 at poczta.onet.pl (Pawel Barzyk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:41 2005 Subject: Seeking TED chips, 8501R1 (for C plus/4 and C 16's) Message-ID: <000601c3faf5$3d602af0$62b69e9d@buzzer> hello I've got 8501R1. I'don't need that. Have you needed that yet? Paul from Poland. From pugseven at hotmail.com Tue Feb 17 08:21:08 2004 From: pugseven at hotmail.com (pugliese) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:41 2005 Subject: sol-20's Message-ID: This is what I have and will be selling in the near future. Two sol-20's both working perfectly in original condition. One is fully loaded with everything you could get from the factory(64k, networking board, ect). The other has either 4k or 16k (?) it acted as the others slave and does not have all the boards. Both have original monitors. I have all the documentation from the manuals to copy's of receipts, and original software (cp/m, cbasic). A micropolis 1054 5 inch 4 stack of drives which I still need to test just to be sure it still works( I cannot even find a reference to them on the online). And one decwriter with the form feed option and a built in keyboard. So you could network all this stuff and have three separate inputs (it is pretty cool). I have not decided how to auction them off yet (as a collection or individually). Any who that's what I got so tell me what you think if any one wants a preemptive bid let me know. thanks nIcK From vcf at siconic.com Tue Feb 24 13:00:21 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:41 2005 Subject: Zortech C++ compiler Message-ID: The Zortech C++ compiler was one of the very first C++ compilers developed in the mid- to late-1980s. I'm looking for a copy for a friend who's writing a book (and also so the creator of Zortech C++ can have his own copy since he never held onto his own!) Zortech C++ was licensed to Symantec and became their C++ compiler. Does anyone have a copy of Zortech C++? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Tue Feb 24 09:44:25 2004 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:41 2005 Subject: Flash mob computing In-Reply-To: <200402240746.02549.pat@computer-refuge.org> References: <200402231740.24968.pat@computer-refuge.org> <20040224100048.035fa6ad.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> <200402240746.02549.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: <20040224164425.2b501d6b.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Tue, 24 Feb 2004 07:46:02 -0500 Patrick Finnegan wrote: > Anyways, I said a trend in Supercomputing[1] not a trend in > Supercomputers[2]. Ahh, sorry. I missed this subtile but significant difference. Back to the topic of Flash mob computing: Somthing like this was done some years ago by a German TV show. You could send your PeeCee to them. During a nightly show they set up all PeeCees, net-booted Linux and build the bigest Linux cluster of that time. Over 500 CPUs. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From brian at quarterbyte.com Tue Feb 24 14:43:50 2004 From: brian at quarterbyte.com (Brian Knittel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:41 2005 Subject: Anyone in contact with Al Jacobs? Message-ID: <403B4706.29796.376BE282@localhost> Hi Folks, Has anyone been in contact with a guy in Wisconsin named Al Jacobs? If you have, please contact me off-list. Thanks, Brian Knittel From kth at srv.net Tue Feb 24 13:58:23 2004 From: kth at srv.net (Kevin Handy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:41 2005 Subject: Zortech C++ compiler In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <403BACDF.9020808@srv.net> Vintage Computer Festival wrote: >The Zortech C++ compiler was one of the very first C++ compilers developed >in the mid- to late-1980s. I'm looking for a copy for a friend who's >writing a book (and also so the creator of Zortech C++ can have his own >copy since he never held onto his own!) Zortech C++ was licensed to >Symantec and became their C++ compiler. > >Does anyone have a copy of Zortech C++? > > > How about a copy of Datalight C? From dundas at caltech.edu Tue Feb 24 15:10:16 2004 From: dundas at caltech.edu (John A. Dundas III) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:41 2005 Subject: Aargh...It never ends.. In-Reply-To: <4036BCC7.nailF2E1LC42D@mini-me.trailing-edge.com> References: <019b01c3f800$b8802480$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <200402202100.57330.pat@computer-refuge.org> <4036BCC7.nailF2E1LC42D@mini-me.trailing-edge.com> Message-ID: Tim, Just catching up with my email. Was out all last week... At 9:04 PM -0500 2/20/04, Tim Shoppa wrote: > > It's quite funny, actually. When I tell people that I have it >because >> "it makes sparks," no one seems to understand. But when I show the >> what it does, they're usually quite impressed > >You need to get a carbon arc lamp :-). > >John, does Dabney house still fire up "Buttercup" once in a while? >The sure sign is the bullhorn telling you "DO NOT LOOK DIRECTLY AT >THE LIGHT!" > >Tim. Not that I've seen lately. Also the canon is no longer viable; cement in the tube. (Didn't know if you already knew that.) John From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue Feb 24 15:40:00 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:41 2005 Subject: ebay question Message-ID: <020b01c3fb1e$c18ade00$033310ac@kwcorp.com> I'm bidding on an item, and I'm pretty sure the seller has another (0 feedback) account and is bidding up the price. I don't see any spot on ebays website where I can raise this issue. Is there someone I can bring this issue to there? Anyone have any thoughts on this? Please reply off-list Jay --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From tomj at wps.com Tue Feb 24 16:12:53 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:41 2005 Subject: HP 7035B Plotter replacement drive belt? Message-ID: <1077659936.2933.6.camel@dhcp-249173> It's 80's vintage, analog XY pen plotter, there's a mylar low-compliance drive belt, mine apparently stretched then dove into the drive gear, ruining it beyond all repair. Does anyone know where to get replacement parts? I have the old belt (pieces) so I can get dimensions. (It's about 3mm wide, 2" diam, yellowish thin mylar). Pens are enough trouble to find, I fear for the machines life for lack of drive belt. (I tried fabricating replacements, it's a tight application; since it's a servo closed-loop, I think grooving it for an O-ring will make it hunt.) From dwight.elvey at amd.com Tue Feb 24 16:03:07 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:41 2005 Subject: ebay question Message-ID: <200402242203.OAA24787@clulw009.amd.com> Hi Try abuse@ebay.com Dwight >From: "Jay West" > >I'm bidding on an item, and I'm pretty sure the seller has another (0 >feedback) account and is bidding up the price. I don't see any spot on ebays >website where I can raise this issue. Is there someone I can bring this >issue to there? Anyone have any thoughts on this? > >Please reply off-list > >Jay > >--- >[This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > > From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue Feb 24 15:56:19 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:41 2005 Subject: 8" drive collets Message-ID: <10402242156.ZM7424@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Today I discovered that the fault on drive 0 of my SWTPC twin 8" drive box is due to a cracked collet -- the 8-fingered black plastic part, with a ball race in the centre, that holds the floppy disk onto the hub. I've had this happen before on an 8" drive, and repaired it by gluing with Araldite (epoxy), but I'd prefer a better repair. Does anyone know of a source for new collets, which seem to be the same on several different makes of 8" drive? The other drive in the pair looks set to go the same way real soon, as it's got a lot of small cracks in it. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From aw288 at osfn.org Tue Feb 24 16:13:43 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:41 2005 Subject: HP 7035B Plotter replacement drive belt? In-Reply-To: <1077659936.2933.6.camel@dhcp-249173> Message-ID: > It's 80's vintage, analog XY pen plotter, there's a mylar low-compliance > drive belt, mine apparently stretched then dove into the drive gear, > ruining it beyond all repair. > > Does anyone know where to get replacement parts? I have the old belt > (pieces) so I can get dimensions. (It's about 3mm wide, 2" diam, > yellowish thin mylar). If you can find something just a little larger, and you have some room, you might be able to "squeeze" the belt. You would have to make a thing with two pulleys (or three or four, depending on space and amount of "squeeze"). Basically, between the two original pulleys on the plotter, install your homebrew thing so it forces the belt towards the centerline, so the "squeeze" pulleys are actually contacting the outside of the belt, taking up the slack. Its an old machinists trick - they would use it sort of like a clutch. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From curt at atarimuseum.com Tue Feb 24 16:17:22 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:42 2005 Subject: ebay question In-Reply-To: <020b01c3fb1e$c18ade00$033310ac@kwcorp.com> References: <020b01c3fb1e$c18ade00$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <403BCD72.7060300@atarimuseum.com> fraud@ebay.com usually works Curt Jay West wrote: >I'm bidding on an item, and I'm pretty sure the seller has another (0 >feedback) account and is bidding up the price. I don't see any spot on ebays >website where I can raise this issue. Is there someone I can bring this >issue to there? Anyone have any thoughts on this? > >Please reply off-list > >Jay > >--- >[This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > > > > -- Curt Vendel & Karl Morris ----------------------------------------------------------------------- The Atari Museum http://www.atarimuseum.com The Atari Explorer http://www.atari-explorer.com From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Tue Feb 24 16:18:46 2004 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:42 2005 Subject: Zortech C++ compiler In-Reply-To: <403BACDF.9020808@srv.net> References: <403BACDF.9020808@srv.net> Message-ID: In message <403BACDF.9020808@srv.net> Kevin Handy wrote: > How about a copy of Datalight C? I wouldn't mind a copy of Manx Aztec C. ISTR there was a 6502 cross-compiler version made - ran on an IBM PC, produced 6502 code. Never managed to find a copy, though. Same goes for the "compile on a PC, run on a PC" version. Later. -- Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, philpem@dsl.pipex.com | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice, http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI ... Where there's a will, there's an Inheritance Tax. From arcarlini at iee.org Tue Feb 24 17:01:31 2004 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:42 2005 Subject: MSCP protocol docs In-Reply-To: <403B96F2.1020903@frixxon.co.uk> Message-ID: <007c01c3fb2a$24c42b60$5b01a8c0@athlon> > I don't have any problems reading that version using Acrobat 5.0.8 on > Linux, but the PDF is rather large, so I have no objection to > re-scanning it. If that's the www.pdp11.nl version, I scanned it at 600dpi and (probably) converted to G4 TIFF (wrapped in PDF). I assumed that someone would come along and OCR it (which I guess I could do myself) and then proof-read it (I've already checked that all the pages in the original exist in the pdf so I've done my bit of eye-balling thanks :-)) ... Any takers :-) > Time won't be an issue when dabs.com finally deliver my A3 > scanner with ADF. Sounds quite neat, but probably a tad expensive. By sheer coincidence, it was today that I chose to find out how to use the office photocopier as a scanner. No idea of the quality or speed yet! Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From coredump at gifford.co.uk Tue Feb 24 17:25:32 2004 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:42 2005 Subject: 8" drive collets In-Reply-To: <10402242156.ZM7424@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <10402242156.ZM7424@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <403BDD6C.50607@gifford.co.uk> Pete Turnbull wrote: > Today I discovered that the fault on drive 0 of my SWTPC twin 8" drive > box is due to a cracked collet -- the 8-fingered black plastic part, > with a ball race in the centre, that holds the floppy disk onto the > hub. I have some spare 8" disk drives here, if that'll help at all. Or if anyone else wants 'em? One's a Shugart SA-801, the others I can't remember (but I can look them up). -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Feb 24 17:24:30 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:42 2005 Subject: HP9121 In-Reply-To: <200402240259.VAA16678@www22.ureach.com> from "Henry Ji" at Feb 23, 4 09:59:51 pm Message-ID: > > > Hello Lee, > Would you consider selling this? I am checking how it is > different from HP PN: 09114-69511. If it is same, I am > interestede in buying it. The HP9121 is a box containing 1 or 2 (normally the latter) _single sided_ 3.5" drives and a controller card with a GPIB interface to the host. I assume the 09114-69511 is the part number for a drive. From the number, I'd assume it's used in the 9114A (amongst other places), and is therefore a _double sided_ drive. The single and double sided drives are very different, BTW, it's not just a matter of swapping the head carriage to turn one into the other. -tony From vcf at siconic.com Tue Feb 24 17:38:49 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:42 2005 Subject: ebay question In-Reply-To: <020b01c3fb1e$c18ade00$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 24 Feb 2004, Jay West wrote: > I'm bidding on an item, and I'm pretty sure the seller has another (0 > feedback) account and is bidding up the price. I don't see any spot on ebays > website where I can raise this issue. Is there someone I can bring this > issue to there? Anyone have any thoughts on this? Well, I'll respond publicly with a less than helpful message: don't bother. First of all, finding the link is a matter of getting really lucky. It's buried 87 levels deep and you have to cross a bridge with a troll under it to get to it. Even if I could remember the path I took a long time ago to get to it, it's probably changed by now. (I.E. I get the impression that they really don't want to be bothered by their users.) Second, if they even do find an interest in pursuing the matter, it'll take days, even weeks perhaps, for any action to take place. The chances of them even responding to you are very low. Basically, your best recourse is to inform the bidder that you suspect they are shilling and retract your bid. If you're not the high bidder then no problem, but if you are, good luck. You might want to point to all your evidence and tell them if they give you any grief you'll turn them in to eBay (but that's sort of a hollow threat anyway, re: above). I present this to you from experience. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Tue Feb 24 17:40:39 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:42 2005 Subject: ebay question In-Reply-To: <200402242203.OAA24787@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 24 Feb 2004, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > Hi > Try abuse@ebay.com > Dwight I think sending anything to that address just returns a flurry of insults. (You asked for the Abuse Department, right? :) Reminder to Dwight to fix your Reply-To setting! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Tue Feb 24 17:42:19 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:42 2005 Subject: Zortech C++ compiler In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 24 Feb 2004, Philip Pemberton wrote: > In message <403BACDF.9020808@srv.net> > Kevin Handy wrote: > > > How about a copy of Datalight C? > I wouldn't mind a copy of Manx Aztec C. ISTR there was a 6502 cross-compiler > version made - ran on an IBM PC, produced 6502 code. Never managed to find a > copy, though. Same goes for the "compile on a PC, run on a PC" version. I have an Apple ][ version (which produces 6502 code naturally) and I may have a PC version. I'm pretty sure I also have an Amiga version. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue Feb 24 17:58:35 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:42 2005 Subject: 8" drive collets In-Reply-To: John Honniball "Re: 8" drive collets" (Feb 24, 23:25) References: <10402242156.ZM7424@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <403BDD6C.50607@gifford.co.uk> Message-ID: <10402242358.ZM7565@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Feb 24, 23:25, John Honniball wrote: > Pete Turnbull wrote: > > Today I discovered that the fault on drive 0 of my SWTPC twin 8" drive > > box is due to a cracked collet -- the 8-fingered black plastic part, > > with a ball race in the centre, that holds the floppy disk onto the > > hub. > > I have some spare 8" disk drives here, if that'll help at all. Or if > anyone else wants 'em? One's a Shugart SA-801, the others I can't > remember (but I can look them up). I like the drives I have so I don't really want to replace them, and it seems silly to cannibalise a good drive to fix a bust one. And I *definitely* don't have room for more (unfortunately -- I'd like to put one or two on a PC). But thanks for the offer. OTOH, I might fit one into my Cromemco. I'll check that tomorrow... -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From chd_1 at nktelco.net Tue Feb 24 18:20:02 2004 From: chd_1 at nktelco.net (Charles H. Dickman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:42 2005 Subject: Qbus perfboards Message-ID: <403BEA32.509@nktelco.net> I remember somebody posting about a source for qbus proto boards, but I can't seem to find it. Anybody remember the post or the link to the source? -chuck From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Feb 24 18:44:08 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:42 2005 Subject: ebay question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040224164226.F40199@newshell.lmi.net> > I'm bidding on an item, and I'm pretty sure the seller has another (0 > feedback) account and is bidding up the price. I don't see any spot on ebays > website where I can raise this issue. Is there someone I can bring this > issue to there? Anyone have any thoughts on this? If it is, instead, a "friend" of his, then there is no resourse, since THAT would be legal. From gkicomputers at yahoo.com Tue Feb 24 18:49:04 2004 From: gkicomputers at yahoo.com (steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:42 2005 Subject: ebay question In-Reply-To: <020b01c3fb1e$c18ade00$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <20040225004904.98551.qmail@web12405.mail.yahoo.com> Well I had many auctions were a 0 feedback bidder bid the price up and eventually won, in my experince first time bidders bid high and often, later on they wise up. So it might be a ligit bidder. --- Jay West wrote: > I'm bidding on an item, and I'm pretty sure the > seller has another (0 > feedback) account and is bidding up the price. I > don't see any spot on ebays > website where I can raise this issue. Is there > someone I can bring this > issue to there? Anyone have any thoughts on this? > > Please reply off-list > > Jay > > --- > [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want. http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools From teoz at neo.rr.com Tue Feb 24 18:56:48 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:42 2005 Subject: ebay question References: <20040224164226.F40199@newshell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <002301c3fb3a$3f96fac0$0500fea9@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Cisin" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2004 7:44 PM Subject: Re: ebay question > > I'm bidding on an item, and I'm pretty sure the seller has another (0 > > feedback) account and is bidding up the price. I don't see any spot on ebays > > website where I can raise this issue. Is there someone I can bring this > > issue to there? Anyone have any thoughts on this? > > If it is, instead, a "friend" of his, then there is no resourse, since > THAT would be legal. > > To be honest your better off not bidding until the last minute of the auction to avoid shills and other people bidding an item up. I know what I am willing to pay for an item and once that line is crossed I don't bid anymore, if the seller wants to have a friend bid it up then he is most likely going to be relisting it. From vcf at siconic.com Tue Feb 24 19:10:09 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:42 2005 Subject: Zortech C++ compiler In-Reply-To: <403BACDF.9020808@srv.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 24 Feb 2004, Kevin Handy wrote: > Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > >The Zortech C++ compiler was one of the very first C++ compilers developed > >in the mid- to late-1980s. I'm looking for a copy for a friend who's > >writing a book (and also so the creator of Zortech C++ can have his own > >copy since he never held onto his own!) Zortech C++ was licensed to > >Symantec and became their C++ compiler. > > > >Does anyone have a copy of Zortech C++? > > > > > > > How about a copy of Datalight C? The connection being...? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From dvcorbin at optonline.net Tue Feb 24 19:44:29 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:42 2005 Subject: ebay question In-Reply-To: <002301c3fb3a$3f96fac0$0500fea9@game> Message-ID: Alas, eBay does NOT mimic a decent "real-life" auction. There are many strategies. I agree that holding off on bidding (and even using a bidding "robot") is one of the most effective, but it is not the only one. Placing an early bid can also have a dramatic impact. There are a number of items I do NOT bid on because I see another specific person has logged a bid, and I do not want a bidding war (at this stage he can probably make better use of individual parts than I). Other times I will place a bid for 70%-90% of my "limit" early. If other people see a significant bid early on, they my not bid. All said and done it is a "Game" in the strictest mathematical sense. Personally, I wish that the auction would be more like a real world one where the auction ended (after a suitable startup delay) when not bids had been placed for a specific interval (30 minutes?). This would more accurately reflect a "real world" open auction. IMsnHO..... >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org >>> [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Teo Zenios >>> Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2004 7:57 PM >>> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts >>> Subject: Re: ebay question >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Fred Cisin" >>> To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" >>> >>> Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2004 7:44 PM >>> Subject: Re: ebay question >>> >>> >>> > > I'm bidding on an item, and I'm pretty sure the seller >>> has another (0 >>> > > feedback) account and is bidding up the price. I don't >>> see any spot on >>> ebays >>> > > website where I can raise this issue. Is there someone >>> I can bring this >>> > > issue to there? Anyone have any thoughts on this? >>> > >>> > If it is, instead, a "friend" of his, then there is no >>> resourse, since >>> > THAT would be legal. >>> > >>> > >>> >>> To be honest your better off not bidding until the last >>> minute of the >>> auction to avoid shills and other people bidding an item >>> up. I know what I >>> am willing to pay for an item and once that line is crossed >>> I don't bid >>> anymore, if the seller wants to have a friend bid it up >>> then he is most >>> likely going to be relisting it. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> From teoz at neo.rr.com Tue Feb 24 20:03:58 2004 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (Teo Zenios) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:42 2005 Subject: ebay question References: Message-ID: <009201c3fb43$a1f0a870$0500fea9@game> ----- Original Message ----- From: "David V. Corbin" To: "'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'" Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2004 8:44 PM Subject: RE: ebay question > Alas, eBay does NOT mimic a decent "real-life" auction. There are many > strategies. I agree that holding off on bidding (and even using a bidding > "robot") is one of the most effective, but it is not the only one. Placing > an early bid can also have a dramatic impact. There are a number of items I > do NOT bid on because I see another specific person has logged a bid, and I > do not want a bidding war (at this stage he can probably make better use of > individual parts than I). Other times I will place a bid for 70%-90% of my > "limit" early. If other people see a significant bid early on, they my not > bid. > > All said and done it is a "Game" in the strictest mathematical sense. > > Personally, I wish that the auction would be more like a real world one > where the auction ended (after a suitable startup delay) when not bids had > been placed for a specific interval (30 minutes?). This would more > accurately reflect a "real world" open auction. IMsnHO..... > I don't have a problem with the way things work now on eBay (as a bidder). If I was a seller things might be different since sniping tends to keep the prices lower then a "real" auction would. Any way you look at it eBay does bring the most buyers to the most sellers in an organized easy to browse format. I have used Buy-It-Now on quite a few auctions and don't generally snipe much at all. Anyway when you have auctions where real money does change hands there will always be people scamming you one way or another by using a shill, misrepresenting items or quality, overcharging on shipping, never sending the item you paid for, or selling fake goods. You have to be careful and know the items your buying along with knowing what to do when things go bad. From swtpc6800 at comcast.net Tue Feb 24 20:23:23 2004 From: swtpc6800 at comcast.net (Michael Holley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:42 2005 Subject: Zortech C++ compiler References: <200402241800.i1OI0Abo000596@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <002901c3fb46$57b136a0$9865fea9@hslckirkland.org> On Tue, 24 Feb 2004, Kevin Handy wrote: > Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > >The Zortech C++ compiler was one of the very first C++ compilers developed > >in the mid- to late-1980s. I'm looking for a copy for a friend who's > >writing a book (and also so the creator of Zortech C++ can have his own > >copy since he never held onto his own!) Zortech C++ was licensed to > >Symantec and became their C++ compiler. > > > >Does anyone have a copy of Zortech C++? > How about a copy of Datalight C? Walter Bright is the author of Zortech C++. In 1982 Walter and I were evaluating computer languages for developing electrical engineering software on the IBM PC, VAX VMS and VAX UNIX. We looked a Pascal, Fortran and C. We selected C, the PC had the Lattice compiler, DEC had just released a C compiler for VMS and UNIX had the standard. Walter looked at the C compilers for the PC and said, "I can do better that that." He got a release from our employer (Data I/O) and spent nights and weekends writing a functional clone of the 2 pass Lattice compiler. This enabled him the debug each pass and to be compatible with the Lattice libraries. I think it took him a year to write the compiler and libraries for the first release. Microsoft also liked the Lattice C compiler, the OEMed the software and the only change was the start-up banner. The OEM deal changed the words "Lattice C 2.0" to "Microsoft C 3.0" (I forget the exact wording, it was 20 years ago.) The higher version number made the Microsoft compiler sound better. The files would pass a binary compare except for those bytes. The first C compiler Microsoft wrote was version 4.0. Walter first started selling his compiler as Northwest C, I don't know if he sold any under that name. He teamed up with someone here in Seattle and started selling it as Datalight C. That went OK but the distributor in the UK was selling more then the US. Walter parted with Datalight and formed Zorland with the UK distributor. Borland did not like the name so they had to change it to Zortech. In the late 80s C++ came to be as a pre-processor for the UNIX compiler. Walter said, "I can do better that that." He wrote the first native C++ compiler for any platform. After about 10 years of work on the compiler he sold out to Symantec and became an instant millionaire. Michael Holley www.swtpc.com/mholley From aw288 at osfn.org Tue Feb 24 20:43:12 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:42 2005 Subject: ebay question In-Reply-To: <20040224164226.F40199@newshell.lmi.net> Message-ID: > If it is, instead, a "friend" of his, then there is no resourse, since > THAT would be legal. In most, maybe all states, being an intentional shill is illegal. The law extends beyond Ebay. I have had "friends" offer to shill for me, but I told them in big letters - NO. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From aw288 at osfn.org Tue Feb 24 20:45:24 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:42 2005 Subject: ebay question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Well, I'll respond publicly with a less than helpful message: don't > bother. First of all, finding the link is a matter of getting really > lucky. It's buried 87 levels deep and you have to cross a bridge with a > troll under it to get to it. Even if I could remember the path I took a > long time ago to get to it, it's probably changed by now. (I.E. I get the > impression that they really don't want to be bothered by their users.) > > Second, if they even do find an interest in pursuing the matter, it'll > take days, even weeks perhaps, for any action to take place. The chances > of them even responding to you are very low. If you are a Powerseller, this is not the case. Customer service is actually not too bad. I guess they prioritize the concerns coming in. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From vax3900 at yahoo.com Tue Feb 24 20:50:06 2004 From: vax3900 at yahoo.com (SHAUN RIPLEY) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:42 2005 Subject: Qbus perfboards In-Reply-To: <403BEA32.509@nktelco.net> Message-ID: <20040225025006.48351.qmail@web60708.mail.yahoo.com> http://www.douglas.com/hardware/pcbs/breadboards/digital.html This was posted by somebody in a news group. I don't know whether it is available or not. --- "Charles H. Dickman" wrote: > I remember somebody posting about a source for qbus > proto boards, but I > can't seem to find it. > > Anybody remember the post or the link to the source? > > -chuck > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want. http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools From Innfogra at aol.com Tue Feb 24 22:59:33 2004 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:42 2005 Subject: ebay question Message-ID: <137.2b6ee0ca.2d6d85b5@aol.com> I have had good results using the report function on eBay. I have reported several frauds (some are quite blatant) and usually the sale is cancelled in a day or two. The person then gets a warning mail not to do such a thing. Three such warnings will get someone suspended from eBay. If it is obvious fraud their name will be suspended immediatly. Now it is fairly difficult to prove a shill, and without proof eBay generally won't do anything. Coincidence is not proof. If the zero feedback bidder shows up on other sales of the original seller it may be suspicious. If he only shows up on the original sellers sales that is very suspicious. Is he registered in the same town? Check both's buyer and seller's ebay information. In doing that ebay sends an email to you and the person you are verifying so it is kind of a notice if it is a shill. Do bidding and selling searches on both the bidders name and the original sellers name. See if there are any more connections. Make sure if you really want the item to make note of the sellers email when you check the ebay records. If eBay does cancel them there will be no accessable records of their offerings. From vcf at siconic.com Wed Feb 25 00:09:32 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:42 2005 Subject: ebay question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 24 Feb 2004, David V. Corbin wrote: > Personally, I wish that the auction would be more like a real world one > where the auction ended (after a suitable startup delay) when not bids had > been placed for a specific interval (30 minutes?). This would more > accurately reflect a "real world" open auction. IMsnHO..... And that's exactly how the Vintage Computer Marketplace works. "Snipe-Proof Auctions" -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From marvin at rain.org Wed Feb 25 00:24:15 2004 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:42 2005 Subject: ebay question References: Message-ID: <403C3F8F.C6933BA7@rain.org> Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > On Tue, 24 Feb 2004, David V. Corbin wrote: > > > Personally, I wish that the auction would be more like a real world one > > where the auction ended (after a suitable startup delay) when not bids had > > been placed for a specific interval (30 minutes?). This would more > > accurately reflect a "real world" open auction. IMsnHO..... > > And that's exactly how the Vintage Computer Marketplace works. At a RL auction, ALL participants are present at the finish. The question of who gets "screwed" by sniping defaults to those participants who don't bid what they are willing to pay. My preference is to allow sniping. From GOOI at oce.nl Wed Feb 25 03:09:06 2004 From: GOOI at oce.nl (Gooijen H) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:42 2005 Subject: MSCP protocol docs Message-ID: <1A9EACFF5B9EB9489F00104C00ECF641027B0F2B@hqvenlomail.oce.nl> For the DIGITAL community, I still scan documents as long as it is loose sheets or it is OK to remove the staples. I do not scan books, that's too time consuming. FYI, I use the scan-to-file option of the Oc? 3165 printer/copier. Any size up to A3/Ledger (11"x 17") is easy, and even mixed sets, for example Letter-sized with fold-outs for schematics are OK. That takes a bit more time to prevent the fold-out to be scaled to Letter size (a few manual actions required). The result is a PDF file readable by Acrobat Reader, but the files are *BIG*, actually they are TIFF's with "PDF jacket". I once did a test on a *text-only* document of 25 pages. The PDF was 6.8 Mbytes, and after going through the Distiller it was just over 650 kbytes ... but I noticed some loss of information here and there. So, reliability is not a full 100%. I stay with the big files knowing not to loose any information. BTW the resolution of the scanner is 600 dpi. For a sample of the scan quality see the scans on mainecoon ... Please e-mail first if you want me to do some scanning. I offer the service free as long as it is DIGITAL, preferably PDP-11 related. You pay the postal cost for sending the doc to me, and the postal cost if you want them back. The resulting scan files are put on a CD-ROM and I ask US $2 for a CD-ROM (up to 650 Mb). I hope that is a reasonable fee ... - Henk. > -----Original Message----- > From: Pete Turnbull [mailto:pete@dunnington.u-net.com] > Sent: dinsdag 24 februari 2004 12:18 > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: MSCP protocol docs > > > Several weeks ago the subject of MSCP docs came up. I think there may > be a scanned copy of AA-L619A-TK (MSCP Basic Disk Functions > Manual) out > there somewhere, though I can't find it, but not, AFAIK, AA-L620A-TK > (Storage Systems Diagnostics and Utility Protocol) and AA-L621A-TK > (Storage System Unibus Port Description). These are the three > components of the UDA50 Progammer's Kit, QP-905-GZ (which, despite the > name, isn't really UDA50-specific) > > I have all three. Anyone in the UK or Netherlands want to scan them? > The three documents are respectively 170pp, 46pp, and 58pp. > > -- > Pete Peter Turnbull > Network Manager > University of York From wmaddox at pacbell.net Wed Feb 25 05:21:39 2004 From: wmaddox at pacbell.net (William Maddox) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:42 2005 Subject: sol-20's References: Message-ID: <007901c3fb91$8986d310$1000a8c0@winxpsp1a2100> What model is the DECwriter? ----- Original Message ----- From: "pugliese" To: Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2004 6:21 AM Subject: sol-20's This is what I have and will be selling in the near future. Two sol-20's both working perfectly in original condition. One is fully loaded with everything you could get from the factory(64k, networking board, ect). The other has either 4k or 16k (?) it acted as the others slave and does not have all the boards. Both have original monitors. I have all the documentation from the manuals to copy's of receipts, and original software (cp/m, cbasic). A micropolis 1054 5 inch 4 stack of drives which I still need to test just to be sure it still works( I cannot even find a reference to them on the online). And one decwriter with the form feed option and a built in keyboard. So you could network all this stuff and have three separate inputs (it is pretty cool). I have not decided how to auction them off yet (as a collection or individually). Any who that's what I got so tell me what you think if any one wants a preemptive bid let me know. thanks nIcK From andyh at andyh-rayleigh.freeserve.co.uk Wed Feb 25 06:38:39 2004 From: andyh at andyh-rayleigh.freeserve.co.uk (Andy Holt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:42 2005 Subject: Zortech C++ compiler In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <002801c3fb9c$4b7785a0$4d4d2c0a@atx> After a bit of searching I have found the full set of 3.5" disks for one version (think it is 3.0), all* the 5.25" disks for the same version (* except the first disk is not in its sleeve because I needed that for the next upgrade), not sure if I still have the manuals (will look). I have also found a disk that may have tar images of part of the previous version - this might mean that I have images of the rest of that if I search hard enough. These disks are in England Andy > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Vintage Computer > Festival > Sent: 24 February 2004 19:00 > To: Classic Computers Mailing List; Classic Computers Mailing List; Bay > Area Computer Collector List > Subject: Zortech C++ compiler > > > > The Zortech C++ compiler was one of the very first C++ compilers developed > in the mid- to late-1980s. I'm looking for a copy for a friend who's > writing a book (and also so the creator of Zortech C++ can have his own > copy since he never held onto his own!) Zortech C++ was licensed to > Symantec and became their C++ compiler. > > Does anyone have a copy of Zortech C++? > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage > Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > ------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage > Computers ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at > http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > > From bqt at update.uu.se Wed Feb 25 07:29:02 2004 From: bqt at update.uu.se (Johnny Billquist) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:42 2005 Subject: MSCP protocol docs In-Reply-To: <200402251258.i1PCvqbx006718@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <200402251258.i1PCvqbx006718@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 25 Feb 2004 Paul Williams wrote: > Pete Turnbull wrote: > > Several weeks ago the subject of MSCP docs came up. I think there may > > be a scanned copy of AA-L619A-TK (MSCP Basic Disk Functions Manual) out > > there somewhere, though I can't find it > > It was available at www.pdp11.nl, though that site is still down. > Neither of the other two are online, according to Manx. I put it at ftp://ftp.update.uu.se/pub/pdp11/doc a while ago, and it's still there. > > I have all three. Anyone in the UK or Netherlands want to scan them? > > The three documents are respectively 170pp, 46pp, and 58pp. > > I can scan the other two. Did someone scan the 4FDC manual for you? I > offered, in private email, but received no response. I could probably scan them too, but I just have a hand-fed scanner. I might take a shot at OCRing the MSCP doc instead, unless someone beats me to it. I'm half-busy right now... Johnny Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt@update.uu.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol From browe58 at comcast.net Wed Feb 25 09:01:35 2004 From: browe58 at comcast.net (Bill Rowe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:42 2005 Subject: cat5 keystone jacks and cable for sale Message-ID: hi, i have available for sale several hundred USED cat5 keystone jacks and cable. the jack is on one end and the other end is bare. the minimum length is around 35 ft. please email if interested. thanx. bill From CPUMECH at aol.com Wed Feb 25 10:08:09 2004 From: CPUMECH at aol.com (CPUMECH@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:42 2005 Subject: HP 7035B Plotter replacement drive belt? Message-ID: <9d.44f5369c.2d6e2269@aol.com> Try Dataterm Inc. they have a lot of old stuff like that. 781-938-1010. I know they have belts for the 7550 plotter. From pcw at mesanet.com Wed Feb 25 10:42:36 2004 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:42 2005 Subject: ebay question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 24 Feb 2004, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Tue, 24 Feb 2004, David V. Corbin wrote: > > > Personally, I wish that the auction would be more like a real world one > > where the auction ended (after a suitable startup delay) when not bids had > > been placed for a specific interval (30 minutes?). This would more > > accurately reflect a "real world" open auction. IMsnHO..... > > And that's exactly how the Vintage Computer Marketplace works. > > "Snipe-Proof Auctions" Yes, Ebay's allowing sniping is really kind of sleazy, You think its a real auction with some idea that the visible bid prices mean something when in fact by allowing sniping its really a sealed bid auction... Sleazy > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > Peter Wallace Mesa Electronics From KVanMersbergen at RandMcNally.com Wed Feb 25 10:40:24 2004 From: KVanMersbergen at RandMcNally.com (Van Mersbergen, Ken) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:42 2005 Subject: Free to a good home, several Power Macs Message-ID: Hello- I have the following available at no cost, you just have to pick it up. They are located at my home in Glenview, IL. I thought I'd offer them here before I throw them out..... 1 Power Macintosh 9500/132 1 Power Macintosh 9500/120 1 Power Macintosh 9500/180MP 1 Power Macintosh 5400/180 (This one has a built-in monitor) They are all in perfect working order, I just don't have the room for them anymore. Just contact me off list if you are interested. -Ken V. *************************************************************** This E-mail is confidential. It should not be read, copied, disclosed or used by any person other than the intended recipient. Unauthorized use, disclosure or copying by whatever medium is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this E-mail in error, please contact the sender immediately and delete the E-mail from your system. *************************************************************** From marvin at rain.org Wed Feb 25 10:41:12 2004 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:42 2005 Subject: ebay question References: Message-ID: <403CD028.2922818F@rain.org> "Peter C. Wallace" wrote: > > On Tue, 24 Feb 2004, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > > On Tue, 24 Feb 2004, David V. Corbin wrote: > > > > > Personally, I wish that the auction would be more like a real world one > > > where the auction ended (after a suitable startup delay) when not bids had > > > been placed for a specific interval (30 minutes?). This would more > > > accurately reflect a "real world" open auction. IMsnHO..... > > > > And that's exactly how the Vintage Computer Marketplace works. > > > > "Snipe-Proof Auctions" > > Yes, Ebay's allowing sniping is really kind of sleazy, You think its a real > auction with some idea that the visible bid prices mean something when in fact > by allowing sniping its really a sealed bid auction... Sleazy I think you are talking about the proxy bidding when you refer visible pricing meaning something; it is meaningless except to say that someone has made a bid. Sniping is not sleazy, but rather the only intelligent approach to the stupidity that takes place on ebay. I'm not sure it makes any difference on other sites. From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Wed Feb 25 11:08:47 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:42 2005 Subject: prices... Message-ID: <1077728095.15653.157.camel@weka.localdomain> does anyone keep track of real-world prices for old machines? I get the impression from past list traffic that there are price guides available for classic computers but they're next to useless anyway. I have a few odds and ends which don't fit into the current collection that I might want to part with, but have no idea what they're realistically worth. I'm used to giving stuff away, not selling it :) Do ebay or any other sales sites allow you to look at prices fetched for past items to give a rough guideline? cheers Jules From lbickley at bickleywest.com Wed Feb 25 11:01:56 2004 From: lbickley at bickleywest.com (Lyle Bickley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:42 2005 Subject: ebay question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200402250901.56312.lbickley@bickleywest.com> For the life of me, I can't understand the complaining about "sniping". I've been to a lot of live auctions - especially for antiques - and many times the bidding is "normal": $50, $55, $65, $75 - going once, going twice - and somebody bids $300 at the last moment - everybody is caught off guard - and before one catches his/her breath, the gavel is down and the item sold. It's all part of the game. And if a person takes auctions too seriously, then they will not find them fun. BTW: I've done the above myself - it's kind of exhilarating - although it can be expensive... Sometimes on eBay (or other auctions) I will put in a low bid on an item - because I just "kinda" want it - and am not interested in bidding it up. "Snipes" could bother me less - if they want to pay more, so be it. If I really want an item, and I'm short on time - I just bid the maximum I'm willing to pay and forget it. If I win O.K., if not, it's still O.K. Sniping doesn't bother me at all - I've already determined the maximum the item is worth to me - and if someone bids more in the last 4 seconds, so be it. If they bid an hour earlier it wouldn't make any difference to me - I've already determined what I'm willing to pay for the item - they can have it. I have even done "sniping" on eBay - only to be "better sniped" by somebody else. Who cares? It's all in the game, guys. If you REALLY just HAVE to have the item, and you didn't bid your maximum, just contact the winner and see what he'll be willing to sell it to you for.... Or, as I've done several times, contact the seller and see if he/she has another one. Several times they have - and in one case I got it for 2/3 the price that the high bidder had paid for the item!!! Lyle On Wednesday 25 February 2004 08:42, Peter C. Wallace wrote: > On Tue, 24 Feb 2004, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > On Tue, 24 Feb 2004, David V. Corbin wrote: > > > Personally, I wish that the auction would be more like a real world one > > > where the auction ended (after a suitable startup delay) when not bids > > > had been placed for a specific interval (30 minutes?). This would more > > > accurately reflect a "real world" open auction. IMsnHO..... > > > > And that's exactly how the Vintage Computer Marketplace works. > > > > "Snipe-Proof Auctions" > > Yes, Ebay's allowing sniping is really kind of sleazy, You think its a real > auction with some idea that the visible bid prices mean something when in > fact by allowing sniping its really a sealed bid auction... Sleazy > > > -- > > > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer > > Festival > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >----- International Man of Intrigue and Danger > > http://www.vintage.org > > > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage > > Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at > > http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > > Peter Wallace > Mesa Electronics -- Lyle Bickley Bickley Consulting West Inc. http://bickleywest.com "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero" From gkicomputers at yahoo.com Wed Feb 25 11:14:16 2004 From: gkicomputers at yahoo.com (steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:42 2005 Subject: ebay question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040225171416.72450.qmail@web12401.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Peter C. Wallace" wrote: > > Yes, Ebay's allowing sniping is really kind of > sleazy, You think its a real > auction with some idea that the visible bid prices > mean something when in fact > by allowing sniping its really a sealed bid > auction... Sleazy > Yes, you hit the nail on the head, although it takes a while for some people to realize this, I wouldn't call it sleazy, Ebay auctions are what they are, a web version of the old time tested traditional sealed bid auction. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want. http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools From KVanMersbergen at RandMcNally.com Wed Feb 25 11:20:37 2004 From: KVanMersbergen at RandMcNally.com (Van Mersbergen, Ken) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:42 2005 Subject: Power Mac update Message-ID: All the Macs are gone. Thank you all! -Ken V. *************************************************************** This E-mail is confidential. It should not be read, copied, disclosed or used by any person other than the intended recipient. Unauthorized use, disclosure or copying by whatever medium is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this E-mail in error, please contact the sender immediately and delete the E-mail from your system. *************************************************************** From gehrich at tampabay.rr.com Wed Feb 25 13:30:12 2004 From: gehrich at tampabay.rr.com (Gene Ehrich) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:42 2005 Subject: prices... In-Reply-To: <1077728095.15653.157.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <1077728095.15653.157.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.2.20040225142937.0211e7e8@pop-server> At 11:54 AM 2/25/2004, you wrote: >Do ebay or any other sales sites allow you to look at prices fetched for >past items to give a rough guideline? E-Bay lets you look at completed transactions but you have to be registered and sign in. ================================= Gene Ehrich gehrich@tampabay.rr.com From vax3900 at yahoo.com Wed Feb 25 13:35:02 2004 From: vax3900 at yahoo.com (SHAUN RIPLEY) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:42 2005 Subject: prices... In-Reply-To: <1077728095.15653.157.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <20040225193502.31859.qmail@web60709.mail.yahoo.com> --- Jules Richardson wrote: > does anyone keep track of real-world prices for old > machines? I get the > impression from past list traffic that there are > price guides available > for classic computers but they're next to useless > anyway. > > I have a few odds and ends which don't fit into the > current collection > that I might want to part with, but have no idea > what they're > realistically worth. I'm used to giving stuff away, > not selling it :) > > Do ebay or any other sales sites allow you to look > at prices fetched for > past items to give a rough guideline? ebay yes, just search those completed auctions. But it seems they reduced the searchable duration after an auction ends. > > cheers > > Jules __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want. http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools From vcf at siconic.com Wed Feb 25 13:54:25 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:42 2005 Subject: ebay question In-Reply-To: <403C3F8F.C6933BA7@rain.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 24 Feb 2004, Marvin Johnston wrote: > Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > > > On Tue, 24 Feb 2004, David V. Corbin wrote: > > > > > Personally, I wish that the auction would be more like a real world one > > > where the auction ended (after a suitable startup delay) when not bids had > > > been placed for a specific interval (30 minutes?). This would more > > > accurately reflect a "real world" open auction. IMsnHO..... > > > > And that's exactly how the Vintage Computer Marketplace works. > > At a RL auction, ALL participants are present at the finish. The > question of who gets "screwed" by sniping defaults to those participants > who don't bid what they are willing to pay. My preference is to allow > sniping. At the risk of opening up a whole argument on this (which this is sure to do) "sniping" is not an ordained right. It's not even a valid tactic outside of eBay. Sniping is an eBay institution because that's how they've designed their auction functionality. The whole construct of a time limited auction without extensions is conducive to sniping, and precisely because, as you state, not all parties are present at the finish. The way to neutralize this is for all auction participants to utilize sniping software, therefore submitting their high bid at the very last second. All other options naturally lead back to this. In the Vintage Computer Marketplace, we've decided to do away with sniping all together by extending an auction by an additional period of time if any bids come in within the last 5 minutes. This is fair for everyone (though the person who thinks he's using eBay and tries to snipe in the last seconds of the auction might not think so). It's fair for the other bidders, because they then get a chance to try to outbid the late bidder (even if that means going above their initial proxy bid amount) and it's fair for the seller because it allows the item to reach it's natural TRUE market price point. eBay does not allow this because time cuts the auction short before someone else can potentially come in and bid higher than the last second sniper. So which is better? Well, we have several regular sellers on the VCM who have made more money using the VCM, and are much happier with the VCM, than with eBay (and not just because we aren't charging any fees at the moment [which is about to change]). If you like sniping and enjoy the adrenaline rush you get when you manage to outsmart other potential bidders, then use eBay. Or, just use sniping software like StealthBid and save your adrenaline for better uses. If you like a fair marketplace suited specifically for the vintage computer hobbyist and market, use the Vintage Computer Marketplace. And I'll make a base appeal to those who still use eBay to buy/sell/trade: you have no room to complain when something on eBay pisses you off because there IS an alternative which you have chosen not to use. The VCM is not used nearly enough. Some of that we can and are working on to get more activity. We've got an advertising push coming up to take it to the next level. But everyone here can also do their part by spreading the word about the VCM and actually using it to sell or trade your stuff. We'll have incentives to make you want to do this, but in the meantime, do it for your own good! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Wed Feb 25 14:03:04 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:42 2005 Subject: prices... In-Reply-To: <6.0.3.0.2.20040225142937.0211e7e8@pop-server> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Gene Ehrich > Sent: 25 February 2004 19:30 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: prices... > > At 11:54 AM 2/25/2004, you wrote: > >Do ebay or any other sales sites allow you to look at prices fetched > >for past items to give a rough guideline? > > E-Bay lets you look at completed transactions but you have to > be registered and sign in. Yeah, but it's only for the last 30 days which can be annoying sometimes. Cheers w From vcf at siconic.com Wed Feb 25 14:04:01 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:42 2005 Subject: ebay question In-Reply-To: <200402250901.56312.lbickley@bickleywest.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 25 Feb 2004, Lyle Bickley wrote: > I've been to a lot of live auctions - especially for antiques - and many > times the bidding is "normal": $50, $55, $65, $75 - going once, going > twice - and somebody bids $300 at the last moment - everybody is caught > off guard - and before one catches his/her breath, the gavel is down and > the item sold. But at least someone else in the crowd still has a highly conceivable chance of submitting a counter bid. When the time to the gavel coming down is a matter of seconds (literally, as on eBay) then the analogy breaks down. > Sometimes on eBay (or other auctions) I will put in a low bid on an item - > because I just "kinda" want it - and am not interested in bidding it up. > "Snipes" could bother me less - if they want to pay more, so be it. By default, I program all my bids in StealthBid and let it do my work for me. I program in the most I am willing to pay. If I get it, great; if not, oh well. But at least I get to put my maximum bid in at the last minute and therefore am usually able to get it for a very low price, rather than programming my proxy in at the beginning and letting some idiot peck away at it until he either gets $1 past my high bid or gives up after he determines that he's gone as high as he can stand and ends up costing me more money than it would have. It can also work the other way, where my last second bid pushes up someone else's bid, but oh well. This is eBay. > If I really want an item, and I'm short on time - I just bid the maximum I'm > willing to pay and forget it. If I win O.K., if not, it's still O.K. Sniping > doesn't bother me at all - I've already determined the maximum the item is > worth to me - and if someone bids more in the last 4 seconds, so be it. If > they bid an hour earlier it wouldn't make any difference to me - I've already > determined what I'm willing to pay for the item - they can have it. And that's the way it should work, but people always discount human nature and the depths to which human stupidity can plunge (hint: there's no limit). -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Wed Feb 25 14:05:46 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:42 2005 Subject: prices... In-Reply-To: <6.0.3.0.2.20040225142937.0211e7e8@pop-server> Message-ID: On Wed, 25 Feb 2004, Gene Ehrich wrote: > At 11:54 AM 2/25/2004, you wrote: > >Do ebay or any other sales sites allow you to look at prices fetched for > >past items to give a rough guideline? > > E-Bay lets you look at completed transactions but you have to be registered > and sign in. And only for the past 30 days, which is pretty useless. Once the VCM starts getting a sizeable sample of sales, we'll be publishing price guides--or at least making the data available--in some form or another. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Wed Feb 25 14:15:56 2004 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:43 2005 Subject: ebay question References: Message-ID: <403D027C.9040108@jetnet.ab.ca> Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > If you like a fair marketplace suited specifically for the vintage > computer hobbyist and market, use the Vintage Computer Marketplace. And > I'll make a base appeal to those who still use eBay to buy/sell/trade: you > have no room to complain when something on eBay pisses you off because > there IS an alternative which you have chosen not to use. The VCM is not > used nearly enough. Some of that we can and are working on to get more > activity. We've got an advertising push coming up to take it to the next > level. But everyone here can also do their part by spreading the word > about the VCM and actually using it to sell or trade your stuff. We'll > have incentives to make you want to do this, but in the meantime, do it > for your own good! > I like the old idea -- the seller sets a price, the buyer pays the price. I want to buy the product today! Not to fuck around with bidding or other things. The biggest problem is not buying a product , it is getting it shipped. That is where you need help in the Vintage Computer Marketplace. If I want to bid on the lastest FAD item I would collect what ever is the latest box of "Sugar Sugar Crunch Cereal". While we all remember the day FREE computers for a Song, that is not longer the case for vintage computers. PS. There is a NICE PDP-11 waiting to sold at VCM. Note I don't have the cash for it, or a way to get shipped safely here. From vcf at siconic.com Wed Feb 25 14:49:45 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:43 2005 Subject: ebay question In-Reply-To: <403D027C.9040108@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, 25 Feb 2004, ben franchuk wrote: > I like the old idea -- the seller sets a price, the buyer pays the price. Great! The VCM has that too :) > I want to buy the product today! Not to fuck around with bidding or > other things. The biggest problem is not buying a product , it is > getting it shipped. That is where you need help in the Vintage Computer > Marketplace. If I want to bid on the lastest FAD item I would collect > what ever is the latest box of "Sugar Sugar Crunch Cereal". > While we all remember the day FREE computers for a Song, that is not > longer the case for vintage computers. I don't understand how the VCM can help you with shipping. > PS. There is a NICE PDP-11 waiting to sold at VCM. Note I don't have the > cash for it, or a way to get shipped safely here. Yep, an 11/20: http://marketplace.vintage.org/view.cfm?ad=413 -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From allain at panix.com Wed Feb 25 15:08:56 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:43 2005 Subject: ebay question References: <200402250901.56312.lbickley@bickleywest.com> Message-ID: <007901c3fbe3$951a90c0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> I think I was pretty shocked the first time I saw sniping, maybe around the fifth auction I bid on. It took only a short while after that to get used to it as the nature of the machinery. Probably the reason why I accept sniping now is that it isn't all that intrusive, less than 20% of the auctions I see seem to have it going on. If everyone using eBay were to go to effortless sniping robots I would hate the experience, and expect eBay to measure and limit it, or get forgotten like bad spam. Knowledge given away is a diasdvantage in a purely competitive environment and withholding the knowledge of your bid amount from your competitors limits your disadvantage. Simple. I don't mean to give the impression that I snipe all the time, I've done it, manually, only on very important things, and less than 5% of the time. John A. From bo_dance at yahoo.com Tue Feb 24 21:31:36 2004 From: bo_dance at yahoo.com (Thomas Bodine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:43 2005 Subject: Source for DC100 tapes Message-ID: <20040225033136.26460.qmail@web40413.mail.yahoo.com> Hello I have a friend that has an old Machine tool manufactured circa 1978. It apparently uses DC-100 tapes. He has one copy of the operating system tape, that he calls a "Parameter" tape. He'd like to make a copy. I need a source for these old DC-100 tapes. Thanks ===== #------------------------------------------------------- # Thomas Bodine, http://www.tommythegeek.com # Computer support for small business # Skipper S/V Frimi WWP 19 #1029 __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want. http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools From cbonninga at priemabv.nl Wed Feb 25 09:18:26 2004 From: cbonninga at priemabv.nl (Chris Bonninga) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:43 2005 Subject: Philips LDB4401 cassette Message-ID: Dear Sir, On the internet we found your offer for Philips LDB4401 cassettes " certified digital mini-cassettes" We desperately need them for a CNC machine. Could you tell us whether you still have app.25 pieces for us? Could you give us a price, including shipping to The Netherlands, way of payment, delivery time? Kindest regards, Priema BV Hoevelaken The Netherlands Chris Bonninga Priema BV Hoevelaken The Netherlands Zuiderinslag 22 Postal address: P.O.Box 33 3870 CA Hoevelaken Tel. +31 - 33 - 253 68 04 Tel. direct +31 - 6 -150 16 443 E-mail: cbonninga@priemabv.nl From citem at citem.org Tue Feb 24 16:11:31 2004 From: citem at citem.org (hbp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:43 2005 Subject: Where is the Comprehensive Computer Catalogue? Message-ID: <403BCC13.5080405@citem.org> Paul, Thanks for your interest in the CCC I am just coming out of a period of personal crisis - no salary for over 18 months! Hopefully I will be in a position to put the CCC back on-line in the near future. As to the ClassiCcmp, I was kicked off and am unable to resubscribe. My messages just don't get through. I suspect a spam filter somewhere is munching my messages. I am forced to read the archived messages :-( Once again thanks for you interest, I'll try and send a message to cccmp when the list goes unline. -- Hans From Edward.Marchese at itt.com Wed Feb 25 13:58:38 2004 From: Edward.Marchese at itt.com (Marchese, Edward) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:43 2005 Subject: HP LIF inquiry Message-ID: <2EE78C46966A8240927295C17604C3132CE5F2@AVMAILSRV02.avionics.de.ittind.com> Joe, I found an old webpage, http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctech/2003-June/015876.html, that had one of your postings on it where you discussed reading old HP disks. I'm looking for a utility which possibly someone has written that will allow me to read and access files from those old HP "LIF" and "HFS" disks using a present day PC. Do you know if there are any sources of such a utility out there? shareware, freeware, commercial? Anything you might have heard of? Any info you may have or general comments are appreciated. Thanks. Ed Marchese Clifton, NJ ************************************ This email and any files transmitted with it are proprietary and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the sender. Please note that any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of ITT Industries, Inc. The recipient should check this email and any attachments for the presence of viruses. ITT Industries accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this email. ************************************ From KADORMAIL1 at aol.com Wed Feb 25 02:33:46 2004 From: KADORMAIL1 at aol.com (KADORMAIL1@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:43 2005 Subject: ldb4401 research Message-ID: <142.22e1399c.2d6db7ea@aol.com> hello, i m looking for some ldb4401 pilips tapes , so tell me about your price and how many tapes you can send me thank you, jeremy From paulrsm at buckeye-express.com Wed Feb 25 12:04:10 2004 From: paulrsm at buckeye-express.com (Paul R. Santa-Maria) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:43 2005 Subject: Manz Aztec compiler (was: Zortech) Message-ID: <380-22004232518410281@buckeye-express.com> Phil wrote: >I wouldn't mind a copy of Manx Aztec C. ISTR there >was a 6502 cross-compiler version made - ran on an >IBM PC, produced 6502 code. Never managed to find >a copy, though. Same goes for the "compile on a PC, >run on a PC" version. I have three versions: Apple II native compiler, MS-DOS cross-compiler for Apple II/6502, and MS-DOS compiler for 8086 (v3.2?). I have scanned the docs for the 6502 compilers and I can do so for the 8086 manual. CD-R? -- Paul Monroe, Michigan USA From evan947 at yahoo.com Wed Feb 25 16:16:23 2004 From: evan947 at yahoo.com (evan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:43 2005 Subject: An oldie but goodie... Message-ID: <20040225221623.14375.qmail@web14006.mail.yahoo.com> Interview with Ken Olsen: http://www.americanhistory.si.edu/csr/comphist/olsen.html From vcf at siconic.com Wed Feb 25 16:22:48 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:43 2005 Subject: Need simple file transfer program Message-ID: I am moving files from old Bernoulli disks to a PC. I've got an old version of Laplink that works under DOS 3.3 but it has one big problem for file transfers: it's assuming that you're trying to sync up your laptop hard drive with your desktop, and vice versa. As a result, it doesn't allow you to specify a directory to move files into. It just copies from C: drive on the source to C: drive on the target, in a mirroring fashion. So, does anyone know of a very simple serial port file transfer program that I can use to do remote file copies? It would have to have powerful wildcard facilities so I can just do a dump of whatever is on the Bernoulli cart to a directory on the remote hard drive. By the way, the problem I was having with reading the Bernoulli carts had to do with the controller and/or driver apparently. I was using a more recent Bernoulli drive controller without success. I got my hands on what I believe is the original/first controller and the drivers for it, and I was able to read the carts. The other controller can't make sense of the disk format and returns a read failure, but they do work as I can format carts with them and copy files to and from those carts. I just can't read the older carts with the newer controller and drivers. So if anyone has any old Bernoulli carts they need to get the data off of, let me know. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From aek at spies.com Wed Feb 25 16:33:45 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:43 2005 Subject: Where is the Comprehensive Computer Catalogue? Message-ID: <200402252233.i1PMXjxX021110@spies.com> Hopefully I will be in a position to put the CCC back on-line in the near future. -- I'd be happy to mirror it at bitsavers.org, LMK From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Wed Feb 25 17:00:49 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:43 2005 Subject: Need simple file transfer program In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1077749221.15653.168.camel@weka.localdomain> On Wed, 2004-02-25 at 22:22, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > I am moving files from old Bernoulli disks to a PC. I've got an old > version of Laplink that works under DOS 3.3 MSDOS Interlink would probably do what you wanted - it allows a drive on the remote machine to be mapped to a drive letter on the local IIRC. Think it didn't turn up until DOS 6 though (possibly DOS 5). No reason that you can't boot the right version of DOS off a floppy containing the Interlink software though. Given sufficient disk space, pull everything off the Bernoulli to local disk, then boot into the later version of DOS and throw everything across... Of course if you want to use the Bernoulli as a remote drive, without touching any hard disk storage on the machine containing your Bernoulli, then you may have problems... hth Jules From rdd at rddavis.org Wed Feb 25 17:03:35 2004 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:43 2005 Subject: Need simple file transfer program In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040225225633.GB25753@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Vintage Computer Festival, from writings of Wed, Feb 25, 2004 at 02:22:48PM -0800: > I am moving files from old Bernoulli disks to a PC. I've got an old [...] > So, does anyone know of a very simple serial port file transfer program > that I can use to do remote file copies? It would have to have powerful > wildcard facilities so I can just do a dump of whatever is on the > Bernoulli cart to a directory on the remote hard drive. How about Kermit? Ok, perhaps it isn't "very simple", but versions of it seem to run on nearly anything from PC-DOS to CP/M, RT-11, PERQs. VAXen and UNIX boxes, etc. One can do some nifty things with it and scripting. I suspect that you may be familiar with it, and it might not be what you're looking for, but in case you somehow managed to overlook it with other things on your mind, I'm mentioning it. > So if anyone has any old Bernoulli carts they need to get the data off of, > let me know. Good luck with the copying and thanks for the offer. Although I've seen Bernouly boxes at hamfests, for some reason, I've avoided them, -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From vcf at siconic.com Wed Feb 25 17:01:05 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:43 2005 Subject: Need simple file transfer program In-Reply-To: <1077749221.15653.168.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: On 25 Feb 2004, Jules Richardson wrote: > No reason that you can't boot the right version of DOS off a floppy Actually, there is. I forgot to mention that the old Bernoulli drivers will not work on a version of DOS above 3.3. I tried on 5.0 and 6.22 equipped systems and the driver would crash each time. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Wed Feb 25 17:03:27 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:43 2005 Subject: Need simple file transfer program In-Reply-To: <20040225225633.GB25753@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: On 25 Feb 2004, R. D. Davis wrote: > How about Kermit? Ok, perhaps it isn't "very simple", but versions of > it seem to run on nearly anything from PC-DOS to CP/M, RT-11, > PERQs. VAXen and UNIX boxes, etc. One can do some nifty things with > it and scripting. I suspect that you may be familiar with it, and it > might not be what you're looking for, but in case you somehow managed > to overlook it with other things on your mind, I'm mentioning it. I considered Kermit. I'll look in to it. Here's a great site I found with lots of links to DOS networking resources: http://www.freedos.org/freedos/news/technote/157.html -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From lbickley at bickleywest.com Wed Feb 25 17:44:03 2004 From: lbickley at bickleywest.com (Lyle Bickley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:43 2005 Subject: Need simple file transfer program In-Reply-To: <1077749221.15653.168.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <1077749221.15653.168.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <200402251544.03721.lbickley@bickleywest.com> FastLynx is still alive and kicking: http://www.sewelldev.com/FastLynxHomePage.asp I still use it to copy old stuff from non-network DOS systems. They have both Windows and DOS drivers. BTW: It's very fast (it can use the parallel "printer" port for high speed transfers as well as the serial port). Lyle On Wednesday 25 February 2004 14:47, Jules Richardson wrote: > On Wed, 2004-02-25 at 22:22, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > I am moving files from old Bernoulli disks to a PC. I've got an old > > version of Laplink that works under DOS 3.3 > > MSDOS Interlink would probably do what you wanted - it allows a drive on > the remote machine to be mapped to a drive letter on the local IIRC. > Think it didn't turn up until DOS 6 though (possibly DOS 5). > > No reason that you can't boot the right version of DOS off a floppy > containing the Interlink software though. Given sufficient disk space, > pull everything off the Bernoulli to local disk, then boot into the > later version of DOS and throw everything across... > > Of course if you want to use the Bernoulli as a remote drive, without > touching any hard disk storage on the machine containing your Bernoulli, > then you may have problems... > > hth > > Jules -- Lyle Bickley Bickley Consulting West Inc. http://bickleywest.com "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero" From brian at quarterbyte.com Wed Feb 25 17:53:00 2004 From: brian at quarterbyte.com (Brian Knittel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:43 2005 Subject: ebay question In-Reply-To: <200402251800.i1PI03bs008201@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <403CC4DC.27539.3D3F8E7D@localhost> Oh, I'm probably going to regret weighing in on this but: ebay proxy bidding is MUCH better than a sealed bid auction because if you win, you only end up paying one increment more than the second highest bidder (usually a buck or two). In a true sealed bid auction, you pay whatever you bid, which might be a lot more than the second highest bid. So, the ebay model almost always gives you a better deal than a sealed bid, and never a worse deal. What most people don't like about sniping is the emotional letdown they get when their bid sits at the minimum for a week, and then their maximum gets exceeded at the last second. I have to admit, I've ended up feeling cheated myself, as if I actually deserved to get a PDP-8 for $10. But all they've cheated me out of is the opportunity re-think my maximum bid after that find out that someone else may be interested. What would make eBay much more interesting (and more expensive for buyers) would be the going-going-gone approach used by live auctions, and the old onsale.com site. Real auctions stay open until bidding activity has ceased for a period of time. Onsale kept auctions open past the posted closing time until 10 minutes had passed since the last bid. This made sniping irrelevant, but in exchange you could get a frenzy of emotional incremental end-stage bidding. Brian From patrick at evocative.com Wed Feb 25 18:17:07 2004 From: patrick at evocative.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:43 2005 Subject: SS-50/SS-30 Pin Spacing Message-ID: Does someone know off the top of his head what the pin spacing is on the SS-50 and SS-30 buses? Better still, Molex or other manufacturer's part numbers for acceptable replacements (10-pin male and female)? Thanks! --Patrick From kth at srv.net Wed Feb 25 17:26:40 2004 From: kth at srv.net (Kevin Handy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:43 2005 Subject: Need simple file transfer program In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <403D2F30.7060600@srv.net> Vintage Computer Festival wrote: >On 25 Feb 2004, R. D. Davis wrote: > > > >>How about Kermit? Ok, perhaps it isn't "very simple", but versions of >>it seem to run on nearly anything from PC-DOS to CP/M, RT-11, >>PERQs. VAXen and UNIX boxes, etc. One can do some nifty things with >>it and scripting. I suspect that you may be familiar with it, and it >>might not be what you're looking for, but in case you somehow managed >>to overlook it with other things on your mind, I'm mentioning it. >> >> > >I considered Kermit. I'll look in to it. Here's a great site I found >with lots of links to DOS networking resources: > >http://www.freedos.org/freedos/news/technote/157.html > > > If you set up kermit right (and you have a current enough version of kermit on both ends), you can do a recursive transfer (i.e. transfer all sub-directories automatically). Check out the following commands for more info. set rec path relative set send path relative set file coll update get /relative * send /relative * To get the latest versions, go to the source http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/ you should be able to find a version for just about anything there. From vcf at siconic.com Wed Feb 25 18:34:33 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:43 2005 Subject: Need simple file transfer program In-Reply-To: <200402251544.03721.lbickley@bickleywest.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 25 Feb 2004, Lyle Bickley wrote: > FastLynx is still alive and kicking: > http://www.sewelldev.com/FastLynxHomePage.asp > > I still use it to copy old stuff from non-network DOS systems. They have both > Windows and DOS drivers. BTW: It's very fast (it can use the parallel > "printer" port for high speed transfers as well as the serial port). One more caveat: it should be free :) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From tomj at wps.com Wed Feb 25 19:16:57 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:43 2005 Subject: HP 7035B Plotter replacement drive belt? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1077757387.2047.21.camel@dhcp-250067> On Tue, 2004-02-24 at 14:13, William Donzelli wrote: > > Does anyone know where to get replacement parts? I have the old belt > > (pieces) so I can get dimensions. (It's about 3mm wide, 2" diam, > > yellowish thin mylar). > > If you can find something just a little larger, and you have some room, > you might be able to "squeeze" the belt. Do you mean, add an idler to be able to use a longer belt? I could do htat I suppose. The real problem is the belt material, mylar. It's not easy to fabricate stuff out of thin mylar, especially in these dimensions and tolerances. It needs to be low compliance, eg. not stretch, it's in a servo loop, and a rubber belt would likely make the servo loop oscillate. From gkicomputers at yahoo.com Wed Feb 25 19:06:48 2004 From: gkicomputers at yahoo.com (steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:43 2005 Subject: ebay question In-Reply-To: <403CC4DC.27539.3D3F8E7D@localhost> Message-ID: <20040226010648.13519.qmail@web12404.mail.yahoo.com> --- Brian Knittel wrote: > Oh, I'm probably going to regret weighing in on this > but: ebay proxy > bidding is MUCH better than a sealed bid auction > because if you win, > you only end up paying one increment more than the > second highest > bidder (usually a buck or two). In a true sealed bid > auction, you pay > whatever you bid, which might be a lot more than the > second highest > bid. So, the ebay model almost always gives you a > better deal than a > sealed bid, and never a worse deal. It would seem so at first glance, but no, you usually get a worse deal at ebay. The Ebay model is technical known as an Vickrey sealed bid auction, were the second highest seal bid is the final price, see http://www.agorics.com/Library/Auctions/auction5.html the twist is because the you know the second highest bid is the final price, you will bid higher then in a true sealed bid auction.... those Ebay people are a bunch of crafty little devils. A quote from the web site "One wonders why any seller would choose this method to auction goods. It seems obvious that a seller would make more money by using a first-price auction, but, in fact, that has been shown to be untrue. Bidders fully understand the rules and modify their bids as circumstances dictate. In the case of a Vickrey auction, bidders adjust upward. No one is deterred out of fear that he will pay too high a price. Aggressive bidders receive sure and certain awards but pay a price closer to market consensus. The price that winning bidder pays is determined by competitors' bids alone and does not depend upon any action the bidder undertakes. Less bid shading occurs because people don't fear winner's curse. Bidders are less inclined to compare notes before an auction." __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want. http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools From swtpc6800 at comcast.net Wed Feb 25 19:45:03 2004 From: swtpc6800 at comcast.net (Michael Holley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:43 2005 Subject: SS-50/SS-30 Pin Spacing Message-ID: <01d401c3fc0a$27f50f30$9865fea9@hslckirkland.org> The pin spacing is 0.156 inch. You can get the Molex parts at Digi Key. www.digikey.com You can look up all the data sheets using the parts numbers at www.molex.com. The 10 pin right angle connector is Molex part 09-52-3101, Digi Key part WM3307-ND. They cost $1.57. The polarizing key is Molex part15-04-0219, Digi Key WM2402-ND. They cost 0.25. The round pin male header is the Molex 3192 series. The 10 pin unit is Molex part 26-20-2101. I have not found a good source, Digi-Key only carries the square pins. The square pin has more contact area (a flat side instead of a point.) The increased friction makes it more difficult to plug and unplug boards. I used the AMP part to build a motherboard (fartherboard?) The 12 pin version is cheaper then the 10 pin version. I bought 12 pin parts and used a utility knife to trim them. 10 Pin MTA 0.156 Header Assembly Straight Round Tin Amp # 1-640384-0 Digi-Key# A24154-ND Price $1.37 12 Pin MTA 0.156 Header Assembly Straight Round Tin Amp # 1-640384-2 Digi-Key# A26174-ND Price $0.93 Michael Holley www.swtpc.com/mholley From rdd at rddavis.org Wed Feb 25 20:44:21 2004 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:43 2005 Subject: Saint Sellam? (Re: REPOST: Re: VAX 11/750 tu58 images) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040226023728.GC25753@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Vintage Computer Festival, from writings of Tue, Feb 24, 2004 at 08:37:02AM -0800: > I'm converting the VCF into an evagelical religious organization. It > doesn't matter how you get rich, just that you are, so the means justify > the ends ;) Ah yes, Rev. Sellam, High Vintage Guru of the Evangelical Temple of the Classic Vintage Computer Festival. How about "Pass the plate and get your soul processed---the more cash, the more CPU cycles will be spent on the work, then do unto Microsoft as Microsoft would do unto you." as the mantra? :-) Sounds like fun. Everyone could get together and have wild spiritual hacking festivities where they worship the beast of computing by purchasing, selling, bartering and trading equipment at vintage computer festivals. Any thoughts on who you're going to appoint to lead the worldwide Campus Crusades for the Preservation of Classic Iron and collect the dues from the national organizations in each country? Hey, let's also not overlook the government for some faith-based funding for this new religion... think of all the old mainframes that could be bought with that; after all, wouldn't each Vintage Hacking Temple (with "Know Thy Microcoding" carved above each entryway) require at least one working minicomputer or mainframe system and related peripherals, at the minimum? Hey, if all those inner-city preachers with gold teeth driving Cadillacs with wide white-wall tires and over-sized bumper guards, who start churches operated out of former corner markets, old movie theaters and pawn shops, can get rich off of their evangelical religious organizations, as do those preachers in rural areas, with wives who like to over-apply gaudy makeup Tammy Fay Baker style, who build televised megachurches in their cornfields, why shouldn't some of us get rich off of related, although far more sensible and worthwhile, tactics as well? ;-) -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From aw288 at osfn.org Wed Feb 25 20:42:30 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:43 2005 Subject: ebay question In-Reply-To: <20040226010648.13519.qmail@web12404.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: To everyoneone that has complained about Ebay: Stop whining. Talk old computers. If you don't like Ebay, don't use it. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Wed Feb 25 20:43:48 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:43 2005 Subject: Saint Sellam? (Re: REPOST: Re: VAX 11/750 tu58 images) In-Reply-To: <20040226023728.GC25753@rhiannon.rddavis.org> References: <20040226023728.GC25753@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <20040226024348.GD21723@bos7.spole.gov> On Wed, Feb 25, 2004 at 09:37:28PM -0500, R. D. Davis wrote: > Quothe Vintage Computer Festival, from writings of Tue, Feb 24, 2004 at 08:37:02AM -0800: > > I'm converting the VCF into an evagelical religious organization. It > > doesn't matter how you get rich, just that you are, so the means justify > > the ends ;) > > Ah yes, Rev. Sellam, High Vintage Guru of the Evangelical Temple of > the Classic Vintage Computer Festival.... When times were tough at Software Results, we used to joke about turning the place into the "First Church of Synchronous Communication". If that was what you would worship, we had all the means! -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 26-Feb-2004 02:39 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -28.6 F (-33.7 C) Windchill -75.59 F (-59.8 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 15.2 kts Grid 008 Barometer 696.5 mb (10010. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From vcf at siconic.com Wed Feb 25 20:50:46 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:43 2005 Subject: Need simple file transfer program In-Reply-To: <403D2F30.7060600@srv.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 25 Feb 2004, Kevin Handy wrote: > If you set up kermit right (and you have a current enough version of kermit > on both ends), you can do a recursive transfer (i.e. transfer all > sub-directories > automatically). Check out the following commands for more info. > > set rec path relative > set send path relative > set file coll update > get /relative * > send /relative * > > To get the latest versions, go to the source > > http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/ > > you should be able to find a version for just about anything there. Hi Kevin. Thanks for the tip. Kermit certainly rocks. I've downloaded the 3.15 DOS version from Columbia and have been playing with it for about an hour now and think I've got it tuned pretty well. It has some excellent features. The only problem is, I haven't been able to figure out how to make it do a recursive get. Online documentation is sparse, and unfortunately, in my vast library of computer books, I have no volume on Kermit. I want to be able to set the directory on the local machine and then do a get of an entire remote volume, i.e.: get e:\*.* Which I would want to download all files and recursively traverse all directories on remote drive e:, storing them in the local directory I specify and preserving pathnames, filenames, and preferably attributes. However, it only downloads files in the root directory. Can you point me to some relevant documentation? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Wed Feb 25 20:52:15 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:43 2005 Subject: ebay question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 25 Feb 2004, William Donzelli wrote: > To everyoneone that has complained about Ebay: > > Stop whining. > > Talk old computers. > > If you don't like Ebay, don't use it. Yeah! Quit whining. Use the Vintage Computer Marketplace instead ;) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Wed Feb 25 21:41:01 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:43 2005 Subject: Here's a weird one (kinda OT) Message-ID: I have a 3Com 3C509B-TPO (16-bit network adapter) in a 486 PC running in DOS 6.22. All the drivers are loaded and working and I can connect up to my Win2000 box and mount its volumes locally. All good. But when I try to transfer large files the DOS system invariably locks up. I have to do a cold boot. I played around with the BIOS, disabling one feature at a time until I found the culprit. Once I disabled the Internal CPU cache then things worked fine. So my question is, why? 3Com's 3C509B FAQ didn't address this issue and I couldn't find anything from Google. I don't expect an answer really. This is one of those problems that only occurs to one unlucky person somewhere in the world at the worst possible moment. Fortunately I can move files but it would be nice to know what might be the problem if there is a solution. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From TRASH3 at splab.cas.neu.edu Wed Feb 25 23:03:11 2004 From: TRASH3 at splab.cas.neu.edu (TRASH3@splab.cas.neu.edu) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:43 2005 Subject: Everex EV-831 Message-ID: <040226000311.2e605@splab.cas.neu.edu> I just sent email to the 4 persons asking about the files I had. If you didn't get the email, let me know. joe heck From curt at atarimuseum.com Wed Feb 25 22:20:01 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:43 2005 Subject: Here's a weird one (kinda OT) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <403D73F1.4030401@atarimuseum.com> The TPO's were 3COM 509's (bad children) I had many issues with those adapters, I especially had issues with them playing well with others. On a few installs of Novell and Win NT servers, when 2 or more of these were in the servers I found that they had to be installed one at a time and configured one at a time then they could all be installed and tested... However have a 509b-TPO and another nic like SMC or Intel and talk about seeing a piece of h/w throw a tantrum. Curt Vintage Computer Festival wrote: >I have a 3Com 3C509B-TPO (16-bit network adapter) in a 486 PC running in >DOS 6.22. All the drivers are loaded and working and I can connect up to >my Win2000 box and mount its volumes locally. All good. > >But when I try to transfer large files the DOS system invariably locks up. >I have to do a cold boot. I played around with the BIOS, disabling one >feature at a time until I found the culprit. Once I disabled the Internal >CPU cache then things worked fine. > >So my question is, why? > >3Com's 3C509B FAQ didn't address this issue and I couldn't find anything >from Google. > >I don't expect an answer really. This is one of those problems that only >occurs to one unlucky person somewhere in the world at the worst possible >moment. Fortunately I can move files but it would be nice to know what >might be the problem if there is a solution. > > > -- Curt Vendel & Karl Morris ----------------------------------------------------------------------- The Atari Museum http://www.atarimuseum.com The Atari Explorer http://www.atari-explorer.com From vcf at siconic.com Wed Feb 25 22:28:54 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:43 2005 Subject: Here's a weird one (kinda OT) In-Reply-To: <403D73F1.4030401@atarimuseum.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 25 Feb 2004, Curt Vendel wrote: > The TPO's were 3COM 509's (bad children) I had many issues with those > adapters, I especially had issues with them playing well with others. > On a few installs of Novell and Win NT servers, when 2 or more of these > were in the servers I found that they had to be installed one at a time > and configured one at a time then they could all be installed and > tested... However have a 509b-TPO and another nic like SMC or Intel > and talk about seeing a piece of h/w throw a tantrum. This is actually somewhat addressed in the 509 FAQ on 3Com's website, and their solution is as you describe (plug in one and install, then plug in the other and repeat). -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Wed Feb 25 22:36:49 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:43 2005 Subject: Need simple file transfer program In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 25 Feb 2004, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > Thanks for the tip. Kermit certainly rocks. I've downloaded the 3.15 I retract. It would rock if it would work reliably. I'm having all sorts of issues. Here are the commands I am issuing to (hopefully) make things more efficient: SET FILE TYPE BINARY SET SPEED 115200 SET FLOW RTS SET REC PACKET 2000 SET WINDOW 4 I put the side with the files I want to grab in server mode with CONNECT. I send commands over and sometimes they work, sometimes not. Sometimes it stalls and recovers after a few seconds; other times it never recovers (I have to manually break the operation on either the server or client side). I've tried all sorts of combinations of the above configuration. I've even booted the program and left the parameters untouched, and get the same unreliable results. It may be because I'm expecting too much from an old IBM PC/AT, but Laplink transfered an entire 30MB hard drive over the same serial link at 115200 and didn't hiccup once. The intractable problem seems to be that there is no recursive file get, at least in the version I'm using, which makes this completely useless for me. Screw Kermit. Back to square one :( -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From pat at computer-refuge.org Wed Feb 25 22:46:52 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:43 2005 Subject: Need simple file transfer program In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200402252346.52466.pat@computer-refuge.org> On Wednesday 25 February 2004 23:36, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > It may be because I'm expecting too much from an old IBM PC/AT, but > Laplink transfered an entire 30MB hard drive over the same serial > link at 115200 and didn't hiccup once. Can you use DOS 6.x and INTERSVR? That was *the* way I used to transfer files back when I did that sort of thing with DOS and Win 3.1. I suspect it's much easier than Kermit, as the client gives you 'network drives' from the server's drives. Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From vze2wsvr at verizon.net Wed Feb 25 22:50:18 2004 From: vze2wsvr at verizon.net (Eric Chomko) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:43 2005 Subject: SS-50/SS-30 Pin Spacing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <403D7B0A.4080905@verizon.net> .156 inches. Patrick Rigney wrote: > Does someone know off the top of his head what the pin spacing is on the > SS-50 and SS-30 buses? Better still, Molex or other manufacturer's part > numbers for acceptable replacements (10-pin male and female)? > Thanks! --Patrick > > From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Feb 25 22:58:58 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:43 2005 Subject: Need simple file transfer program In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040225205201.R77546@newshell.lmi.net> any reason to not use a Ward Christensen protocol program? (XMODEM, YMODEM, ZMODEM, etc.) ProComm, CrossTalk, Elf, PCTalk, MODEM7, ........... From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Wed Feb 25 22:43:46 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:43 2005 Subject: Need simple file transfer program In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040226044346.GC27958@bos7.spole.gov> On Wed, Feb 25, 2004 at 08:36:49PM -0800, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Wed, 25 Feb 2004, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > SET SPEED 115200 > > It may be because I'm expecting too much from an old IBM PC/AT, but > Laplink transfered an entire 30MB hard drive over the same serial link at > 115200 and didn't hiccup once. Do you have 16550(A) UARTs on both sides? -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 26-Feb-2004 04:40 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -33.5 F (-36.4 C) Windchill -90 F (-67.8 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 18.9 kts Grid 007 Barometer 696.6 mb (10006. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From vcf at siconic.com Wed Feb 25 23:04:26 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:43 2005 Subject: Need simple file transfer program In-Reply-To: <200402252346.52466.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 25 Feb 2004, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > Can you use DOS 6.x and INTERSVR? That was *the* way I used to transfer > files back when I did that sort of thing with DOS and Win 3.1. I > suspect it's much easier than Kermit, as the client gives you 'network > drives' from the server's drives. No. The Bernoulli drivers won't work on any DOS version higher than 3.30. I just downloaded version 3.16 of Columbia's Kermit. It purports to have added a /RECURSIVE option to the GET command, which it has, and it claims to create the necessary directories [on the client side] which it does not. It also purported to fix a serious bug with commands over a serial port not being completed, but I'm still having problems transferring files. Lots of stalling. It's funny how the Columbia folks put up a big FAQ trying to dispel various rumors about how Kermit is slow and inefficient and how Kermit is superior to everything because it will work under pretty much any condition (line noise, funky hardware, etc.) "out of the box" and ... it doesn't. Foo. Lamoids. Unless there's a Kermit expert out there who can tell me what I'm doing wrong, I'm writing Kermit off (and those foolios at Columbia...dorks). -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Wed Feb 25 23:09:13 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:43 2005 Subject: Need simple file transfer program In-Reply-To: <20040225205201.R77546@newshell.lmi.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 25 Feb 2004, Fred Cisin wrote: > any reason to not use a Ward Christensen protocol program? > (XMODEM, YMODEM, ZMODEM, etc.) > > ProComm, CrossTalk, Elf, PCTalk, MODEM7, ........... Mainly because I'm trying to transfer entire Bernoulli volumes. I am NOT going to do this one file at a time. I need one command that dumps the entire volume over the serial port and preserves the directory structure. I need to take a break from this nonsense. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Wed Feb 25 23:11:03 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:43 2005 Subject: Need simple file transfer program In-Reply-To: <20040226044346.GC27958@bos7.spole.gov> Message-ID: On Thu, 26 Feb 2004, Ethan Dicks wrote: > On Wed, Feb 25, 2004 at 08:36:49PM -0800, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > On Wed, 25 Feb 2004, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > SET SPEED 115200 > > > > It may be because I'm expecting too much from an old IBM PC/AT, but > > Laplink transfered an entire 30MB hard drive over the same serial link at > > 115200 and didn't hiccup once. > > Do you have 16550(A) UARTs on both sides? Nope. The PC/AT has a 16450 and the 486 has a Winbond W86C450. And as I mentioned, Laplink transferred 30MB worth of data over the same link at 115200 just fine. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Feb 25 23:21:01 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:43 2005 Subject: Need simple file transfer program In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040225211517.Y79602@newshell.lmi.net> On Wed, 25 Feb 2004, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > Mainly because I'm trying to transfer entire Bernoulli volumes. I am NOT > going to do this one file at a time. I need one command that dumps the > entire volume over the serial port and preserves the directory structure. > > I need to take a break from this nonsense. howzbout: scrap the entire serial port copncept; hook up a zip drive, and xcopy the bernoulli to a zip disk? Then you replace a marginally reliable obsolete format device with an unreliable currently supported device. From vcf at siconic.com Wed Feb 25 23:33:35 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:43 2005 Subject: Need simple file transfer program In-Reply-To: <20040225211517.Y79602@newshell.lmi.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 25 Feb 2004, Fred Cisin wrote: > scrap the entire serial port copncept; hook up a zip drive, and xcopy the > bernoulli to a zip disk? I wish. But again, I'm forced to use DOS 3.30, and I'm going under the assumption that anything I try that is "exotic" will cause me more trouble than it's worth. I could've tried to move the Bernoulli drives to a more modern PC (hoping the controller would work on a PC with a bus rate greater than 8Mhz which, from what I glean from the documentation of the new Iomega drivers, won't fly), booted that PC with DOS 3.30 (so the drivers would work), then format a local hard drive under DOS 3.30 so that I can move the files to it, then--and assuming that all works--boot back into DOS 6.22 so that I can get back on my local network, move the files over to my Win2000 PC and then burn the files to CD. Too much work, too many if's, too much room for continued aggravation. But anyway, I just got a copy of Fastlynx and it's working spectacularly (thanks Bruce!) It's projects like these that remind me that I actually hate computers. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Feb 25 23:41:36 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:43 2005 Subject: Need simple file transfer program In-Reply-To: from "Vintage Computer Festival" at Feb 25, 2004 08:36:49 PM Message-ID: <200402260541.i1Q5faPY025019@onyx.spiritone.com> > I retract. It would rock if it would work reliably. I'm having all sorts > of issues. Here are the commands I am issuing to (hopefully) make things > more efficient: > > SET FILE TYPE BINARY > SET SPEED 115200 > SET FLOW RTS > SET REC PACKET 2000 > SET WINDOW 4 How about dropping your speed, that seems awfully high. Especially since you don't have 16550's on both end. Zane From vcf at siconic.com Wed Feb 25 23:52:11 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:43 2005 Subject: Need simple file transfer program In-Reply-To: <200402260541.i1Q5faPY025019@onyx.spiritone.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 25 Feb 2004, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > I retract. It would rock if it would work reliably. I'm having all sorts > > of issues. Here are the commands I am issuing to (hopefully) make things > > more efficient: > > > > SET FILE TYPE BINARY > > SET SPEED 115200 > > SET FLOW RTS > > SET REC PACKET 2000 > > SET WINDOW 4 > > How about dropping your speed, that seems awfully high. Especially since > you don't have 16550's on both end. It's this suckish Kermit implementation that the nerds at Columbia are blowing themselves over. Laplink worked fine at 115K. Fastlynx is currently working fine at 115K. I hate to say it, but I think Kermit sucks. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From fmc at reanimators.org Thu Feb 26 00:08:11 2004 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:43 2005 Subject: Need simple file transfer program In-Reply-To: <200402252346.52466.pat@computer-refuge.org> (Patrick Finnegan's message of "Wed, 25 Feb 2004 23:46:52 -0500") References: <200402252346.52466.pat@computer-refuge.org> Message-ID: <200402260608.i1Q68BOB007830@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Patrick Finnegan wrote: > Can you use DOS 6.x and INTERSVR? That was *the* way I used to transfer And the INTERSVR side will run on at least one earlier version of MS-DOS. I used to run INTERSVR on my HP 100/200LX palmtops, which have MS-DOS 5.0 in ROM, so I could attach its filesystems to a serially-connected desktop running MS-DOS 6.x with INTERLNK. -Frank McConnell From freddyboomboom at comcast.net Wed Feb 25 21:26:01 2004 From: freddyboomboom at comcast.net (Andrew Prince) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:43 2005 Subject: Need simple file transfer program In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1077765961.2045.21.camel@localhost> On Thu, 2004-02-26 at 00:04, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Wed, 25 Feb 2004, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > > > Can you use DOS 6.x and INTERSVR? That was *the* way I used to transfer > > files back when I did that sort of thing with DOS and Win 3.1. I > > suspect it's much easier than Kermit, as the client gives you 'network > > drives' from the server's drives. > > No. The Bernoulli drivers won't work on any DOS version higher than 3.30. > Sometimes the newer DOS programs (even M$ ones) will work just fine in older versions of DOS. For example, I use the deltree.exe from Windows 98 Second Edition on my HP 200LX running MS-DOS 5.0. And it works just fine. Just letting those out there that like to experiment have something else to experiment with... :) TTFN Andrew From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Feb 26 00:41:00 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:43 2005 Subject: Need simple file transfer program In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040225223506.A80578@newshell.lmi.net> > > scrap the entire serial port copncept; hook up a zip drive, and xcopy the > > bernoulli to a zip disk? On Wed, 25 Feb 2004, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > I wish. But again, I'm forced to use DOS 3.30, and I'm going under the > assumption that anything I try that is "exotic" will cause me more trouble > than it's worth. yeah run DOS 3.30 on a stock AT. Install Bernoulli and ZIP100 (parallel port, using GUEST.EXE) Use XCOPY (available 3.20 on) From vcf at siconic.com Thu Feb 26 00:51:59 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:44 2005 Subject: Need simple file transfer program In-Reply-To: <20040225223506.A80578@newshell.lmi.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 25 Feb 2004, Fred Cisin wrote: > > > scrap the entire serial port copncept; hook up a zip drive, and xcopy the > > > bernoulli to a zip disk? > > On Wed, 25 Feb 2004, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > I wish. But again, I'm forced to use DOS 3.30, and I'm going under the > > assumption that anything I try that is "exotic" will cause me more trouble > > than it's worth. > > yeah > run DOS 3.30 on a stock AT. Install Bernoulli and > ZIP100 (parallel port, using GUEST.EXE) > Use XCOPY (available 3.20 on) Sorry. I'm starting to realize my temporal sense of PC hardware and software is not all that accurate. I made several assumptions regarding the use of "modern" hardware on "ancient" PCs (my idea of DOS 3.30 is something that is too old to support Microsoft's TCP/IP drivers or ZIP drives and whatnot) and realize now I am ignorant. Oh well, when I have time to experiment with this stuff then I will, but for now there's work to be done ;) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From nico at farumdata.dk Thu Feb 26 01:22:45 2004 From: nico at farumdata.dk (Nico de Jong) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:44 2005 Subject: Everex EV-831 References: <040226000311.2e605@splab.cas.neu.edu> Message-ID: <001401c3fc39$548df230$2201a8c0@finans> Hi Joe It was just what I needed. Thanks a lot. Next problem is that I can rewind a tape, due to the rubber band (or whatever it is) hast lost its grip. should not be an insurmountable problem, i hope Nico ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2004 6:03 AM Subject: RE: Everex EV-831 > I just sent email to the 4 persons asking about the files I had. If you > didn't get the email, let me know. > > joe heck > From nick at computer-history.org Wed Feb 25 19:18:56 2004 From: nick at computer-history.org (nick@computer-history.org) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:44 2005 Subject: prices... References: <1077728095.15653.157.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <00f001c3fc06$830e1f50$7a00a8c0@themillers> Jules, Are there certain machines you are trying to appraise? I've been saving eBay auction results (in a single file archived html format) for machines that I am interested in. I'm up to about 1100 auctions starting in April 2002. Let me know if you would like me to dig into it for you. Nick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jules Richardson" To: Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2004 10:54 AM Subject: prices... > does anyone keep track of real-world prices for old machines? I get the > impression from past list traffic that there are price guides available > for classic computers but they're next to useless anyway. > > I have a few odds and ends which don't fit into the current collection > that I might want to part with, but have no idea what they're > realistically worth. I'm used to giving stuff away, not selling it :) > > Do ebay or any other sales sites allow you to look at prices fetched for > past items to give a rough guideline? > > cheers > > Jules > From wmaddox at pacbell.net Thu Feb 26 02:37:24 2004 From: wmaddox at pacbell.net (William Maddox) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:44 2005 Subject: PDP-11/20, was Re: ebay question References: <403D027C.9040108@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <011201c3fc43$c2c25570$1000a8c0@winxpsp1a2100> > PS. There is a NICE PDP-11 waiting to sold at VCM. Note I don't have the > cash for it, or a way to get shipped safely here. If you compare the picture of this machine with with the 11/20 on Guy Sotomayer's site, the front panel of the machine on VCM looks like it has been (inexpertly) modified. In fact, it looks like it has holes in it at the lamp positions, not even neatly lined up, as if drilled with a hand drill. I asked the seller about this, and he told me that the machine had LEDs, not lamps, but claimed that it came that way. I inquired about what appeared to be drilled holes, and asked for some better closeup pictures, but never received any. I suspect that this machine was the victim of a lamp-to-LED "upgrade" by a previous owner, unless it was some kind of prototype that was never meant to be sold to a customer. Here is a picture of what I think a PDP-11/20 is supposed to look like, with a smooth front panel surface like the PDP-8/L of similar vintage: http://www.shiresoft.com/pdp-11/inventory.html I considered buying the machine anyway, and made the seller a respectable offer upon the condition that he could show me that the machine was in fact stock, and discussions ended at that point. I got the impression that the seller was holding out to find a buyer who was perhaps less finicky about condition or who wouldn't ask such probing questions. ;) In any case, the asking price seems to factor in a great deal of "collectibility" due to rarity and condition that may not be warranted. --Bill From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Thu Feb 26 02:23:52 2004 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:44 2005 Subject: Need simple file transfer program In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040226092352.73ce124d.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Wed, 25 Feb 2004 14:22:48 -0800 (PST) Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > So, does anyone know of a very simple serial port file transfer > program that I can use to do remote file copies? ZIP or ARC the disk into a single file and transfer it with kermit? Install an old NE2000 or WD8013 network card and NCSA-Telnet. Run the NCSA ftp server and use ncftp or wget recursive ftp-get options on the other side. More work, but faster then serial link. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From nico at farumdata.dk Thu Feb 26 05:25:33 2004 From: nico at farumdata.dk (Nico de Jong) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:44 2005 Subject: Archive 5945C References: <040226000311.2e605@splab.cas.neu.edu> Message-ID: <001401c3fc5b$4053c0c0$2201a8c0@finans> On the back of the drive, between the motor and the data connector, are some jumpers. Does anyone have documentation on the settings ? Nico ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2004 6:03 AM Subject: RE: Everex EV-831 > I just sent email to the 4 persons asking about the files I had. If you > didn't get the email, let me know. > > joe heck > From julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk Thu Feb 26 06:06:45 2004 From: julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk (Jules Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:44 2005 Subject: Need simple file transfer program In-Reply-To: <20040226092352.73ce124d.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> References: <20040226092352.73ce124d.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <1077796375.17036.10.camel@weka.localdomain> On Thu, 2004-02-26 at 08:23, Jochen Kunz wrote: > On Wed, 25 Feb 2004 14:22:48 -0800 (PST) > Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > > So, does anyone know of a very simple serial port file transfer > > program that I can use to do remote file copies? > ZIP or ARC the disk into a single file and transfer it with kermit? I was just pondering that one too and you beat me to it :) I believe there's even a version of tar that'll work on versions of DOS that old, although zip would probably seem the most sensible for a DOS to DOS transfer. Sellam already knows laplink works at that speed. The only detail we haven't got (unless I missed it) is how much free disk storage there is on the machine hosting the Bernoulli drive - if there's no local space free then it's a good reason for having to do a file-by-file transfer straight off the Bernoulli... > Install an old NE2000 or WD8013 network card and NCSA-Telnet. Run the > NCSA ftp server and use ncftp or wget recursive ftp-get options on the > other side. More work, but faster then serial link. I suspect that less work on behalf of the human is the goal, and never mind if it takes an hour or a day to actually transfer by itself :) (I remember shunting a copy of Win95 across to my old laptop via interlink once - boy was it slow!) cheers Jules From nico at farumdata.dk Thu Feb 26 07:00:42 2004 From: nico at farumdata.dk (Nico de Jong) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:44 2005 Subject: Archive 5945C References: <040226000311.2e605@splab.cas.neu.edu> <001401c3fc5b$4053c0c0$2201a8c0@finans> Message-ID: <000801c3fc68$8a7eccf0$2201a8c0@finans> Now I am really confused. The Archive drive I'm having problems with, carries a sticker "Model: 5945C ", but it also has a sticker saying "LR56637". When I google around, LR56637 also seems to be used for 150 MB SCSI drives. Is there an explanation ? Nico ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nico de Jong" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2004 12:25 PM Subject: Archive 5945C > On the back of the drive, between the motor and the data connector, are some > jumpers. > Does anyone have documentation on the settings ? > > Nico > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2004 6:03 AM > Subject: RE: Everex EV-831 > > > > I just sent email to the 4 persons asking about the files I had. If you > > didn't get the email, let me know. > > > > joe heck > > > > From root at parse.com Thu Feb 26 07:23:46 2004 From: root at parse.com (Robert Krten) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:44 2005 Subject: PDP-11/20, was Re: ebay question In-Reply-To: <011201c3fc43$c2c25570$1000a8c0@winxpsp1a2100> from "William Maddox" at Feb 26, 2004 12:37:24 AM Message-ID: <200402261323.IAA30400@parse.com> William Maddox sez... > > > PS. There is a NICE PDP-11 waiting to sold at VCM. Note I don't have the > > cash for it, or a way to get shipped safely here. > > If you compare the picture of this machine with with the 11/20 on Guy Sotomayer's site, > the front panel of the machine on VCM looks like it has been (inexpertly) modified. In fact, > it looks like it has holes in it at the lamp positions, not even neatly lined up, as if drilled with > a hand drill. I asked the seller about this, and he told me that the machine had LEDs, not > lamps, but claimed that it came that way. I inquired about what appeared to be drilled > holes, and asked for some better closeup pictures, but never received any. I suspect that > this machine was the victim of a lamp-to-LED "upgrade" by a previous owner, unless it was > some kind of prototype that was never meant to be sold to a customer. > > Here is a picture of what I think a PDP-11/20 is supposed to look like, with a smooth front > panel surface like the PDP-8/L of similar vintage: > > http://www.shiresoft.com/pdp-11/inventory.html Well... other 11/20's look a little different :-) :-) http://www.parse.com/~museum/pdp11/index.html The 11/R20 is the first picture... Cheers, -RK -- Robert Krten, PARSE Software Devices +1 613 599 8316. Realtime Systems Architecture, Consulting, Books and Training at www.parse.com Looking for Digital Equipment Corp. PDP-1 through PDP-15 minicomputers! From d_cymbal at hotmail.com Thu Feb 26 08:07:41 2004 From: d_cymbal at hotmail.com (Damien Cymbal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:44 2005 Subject: minor OT: computerized POS systems Message-ID: Hi, Does anyone have/collect any computerized point-of-sale systems? I am specifically interested in 3 old systems from Tranti Systems Incorporated (now defunct, purchased by GEAC sometime in the mid 90s), the System 29, System 105, and System 2100. The first 2 where proprietary hardware, the last was PC-based. If anyone has any leads on any info, please let me know. dc From jwest at classiccmp.org Thu Feb 26 08:29:13 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:44 2005 Subject: Archive 5945C References: <040226000311.2e605@splab.cas.neu.edu> <001401c3fc5b$4053c0c0$2201a8c0@finans> Message-ID: <000d01c3fc74$e7d35ae0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> That drive was one of the few supported by early Pick O/S R83. I know the controller settings are documented in the manual, not sure about drive settings. I'll check this weekend. Jay ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nico de Jong" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2004 5:25 AM Subject: Archive 5945C > On the back of the drive, between the motor and the data connector, are some > jumpers. > Does anyone have documentation on the settings ? > > Nico > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2004 6:03 AM > Subject: RE: Everex EV-831 > > > > I just sent email to the 4 persons asking about the files I had. If you > > didn't get the email, let me know. > > > > joe heck > > > > --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Thu Feb 26 08:26:52 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:44 2005 Subject: PDP-11/20, was Re: ebay question In-Reply-To: <200402261323.IAA30400@parse.com> References: <011201c3fc43$c2c25570$1000a8c0@winxpsp1a2100> <200402261323.IAA30400@parse.com> Message-ID: <20040226142652.GD15055@mapo1.spole.gov> On Thu, Feb 26, 2004 at 08:23:46AM -0500, Robert Krten wrote: > William Maddox sez... > > > > > PS. There is a NICE PDP-11 waiting to sold at VCM. > > > > If you compare the picture of this machine with with the 11/20 on > > Guy Sotomayer's site, the front panel of the machine on VCM looks > > like it has been (inexpertly) modified... > > > > Here is a picture of what I think a PDP-11/20 is supposed to look like, > > with a smooth front panel surface like the PDP-8/L of similar vintage: > > > > http://www.shiresoft.com/pdp-11/inventory.html > > Well... other 11/20's look a little different :-) :-) > > http://www.parse.com/~museum/pdp11/index.html Ruggedized machines aside, _my_ 11/20 looks like the one depicted at shiresoft.com... smooth panel (with incandescent bulbs behind). I can only guess that whoever modified that 11/20 did not have access to bright-enough LEDs to leave them behind the panel, or didn't have room to add current-limiting resistors between the plexi and the PCB. I've had to recently manufacture an LED replacement bulb (for the HV ON light of a LeCroy 1440 High Voltage "Mainframe")... The bulbs are GI 382s marked "14V 80mA". We have three 1440s with two bulbs each, and *no* good spares left. :-( I removed the glass envelope, found a tiny LED (don't remember the T-designation, but the red epoxy envelope is under 2mm long), and fit it and an SMT 103K resistor inside the body of the former bulb so it all fit in the back of a lighted switch. I'm thinking of a similar mod for my RL01s and RL02s when I get home. I'm tired of burned out FAULT and LOAD lights. I'll probably save the bulbs for the READY spot (since white LEDs are too blue to look right behind a milky-white cover). -ethan (who is still also looking for a decent replacement for PDP-8/S bulbs) -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 26-Feb-2004 14:20 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -37.8 F (-38.8 C) Windchill -75.09 F (-59.5 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 10.5 kts Grid 021 Barometer 695.4 mb (10049. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From patrick at evocative.com Thu Feb 26 08:47:54 2004 From: patrick at evocative.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:44 2005 Subject: SS-50/SS-30 Pin Spacing In-Reply-To: <01d401c3fc0a$27f50f30$9865fea9@hslckirkland.org> Message-ID: Thanks, Michael! This is EXACTLY what I needed. --Patrick > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Michael Holley > Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2004 5:45 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: re: SS-50/SS-30 Pin Spacing > > > The pin spacing is 0.156 inch. > > You can get the Molex parts at Digi Key. www.digikey.com > You can look up all the data sheets using the parts numbers at > www.molex.com. > > The 10 pin right angle connector is Molex part 09-52-3101, Digi Key part > WM3307-ND. They cost $1.57. > > The polarizing key is Molex part15-04-0219, Digi Key WM2402-ND. They cost > 0.25. > > The round pin male header is the Molex 3192 series. The 10 pin > unit is Molex > part 26-20-2101. I have not found a good source, Digi-Key only > carries the > square pins. The square pin has more contact area (a flat side > instead of a > point.) The increased friction makes it more difficult to plug and unplug > boards. > > I used the AMP part to build a motherboard (fartherboard?) The 12 pin > version is cheaper then the 10 pin version. I bought 12 pin parts > and used a > utility knife to trim them. > > 10 Pin MTA 0.156 Header Assembly Straight Round Tin > Amp # 1-640384-0 > Digi-Key# A24154-ND Price $1.37 > > 12 Pin MTA 0.156 Header Assembly Straight Round Tin > Amp # 1-640384-2 > Digi-Key# A26174-ND Price $0.93 > > Michael Holley > www.swtpc.com/mholley > > > From geneb at deltasoft.com Thu Feb 26 09:06:02 2004 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:44 2005 Subject: Need simple file transfer program In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > any reason to not use a Ward Christensen protocol program? > > (XMODEM, YMODEM, ZMODEM, etc.) > > > > ProComm, CrossTalk, Elf, PCTalk, MODEM7, ........... > > Mainly because I'm trying to transfer entire Bernoulli volumes. I am NOT > going to do this one file at a time. I need one command that dumps the > entire volume over the serial port and preserves the directory structure. > > I need to take a break from this nonsense. > Are the machines in question capable of using a USB thumb drive? If so, an xcopy to that might solve your problem without a serial link. g. From jdickens at ameritech.net Thu Feb 26 09:05:34 2004 From: jdickens at ameritech.net (James Dickens) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:44 2005 Subject: Need simple file transfer program In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200402260905.34402.jdickens@ameritech.net> On Thursday 26 February 2004 09:06 am, Gene Buckle wrote: > > > any reason to not use a Ward Christensen protocol program? > > > (XMODEM, YMODEM, ZMODEM, etc.) > > > > > > ProComm, CrossTalk, Elf, PCTalk, MODEM7, ........... > > > > Mainly because I'm trying to transfer entire Bernoulli volumes. I am NOT > > going to do this one file at a time. I need one command that dumps the > > entire volume over the serial port and preserves the directory structure. > > > > I need to take a break from this nonsense. > > Are the machines in question capable of using a USB thumb drive? If so, > an xcopy to that might solve your problem without a serial link. > > g. I'm not aware of any usb drivers for dos 3.3 or any before perhaps dos 6 10mbit Ethernet cards seem like the best solution.... or 110k baud serial that he used. on the older machine, the 110k would not be a problem given it is mostly just sending data... the receiving end has the hard part... James From pkoning at equallogic.com Thu Feb 26 09:10:21 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:44 2005 Subject: PDP-11/20, was Re: ebay question References: <011201c3fc43$c2c25570$1000a8c0@winxpsp1a2100> <200402261323.IAA30400@parse.com> <20040226142652.GD15055@mapo1.spole.gov> Message-ID: <16446.3165.966000.439319@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Ethan" == Ethan Dicks writes: Ethan> On Thu, Feb 26, 2004 at 08:23:46AM -0500, Robert Krten wrote: >> William Maddox sez... >> > >> > > PS. There is a NICE PDP-11 waiting to sold at VCM. >> > >> > If you compare the picture of this machine with with the 11/20 >> on > Guy Sotomayer's site, the front panel of the machine on VCM >> looks > like it has been (inexpertly) modified... >> > >> > Here is a picture of what I think a PDP-11/20 is supposed to >> look like, > with a smooth front panel surface like the PDP-8/L of >> similar vintage: >> > >> > http://www.shiresoft.com/pdp-11/inventory.html >> >> Well... other 11/20's look a little different :-) :-) >> >> http://www.parse.com/~museum/pdp11/index.html Ethan> Ruggedized machines aside, _my_ 11/20 looks like the one Ethan> depicted at shiresoft.com... smooth panel (with incandescent Ethan> bulbs behind). Correct. The same goes for other PDP11 models; the smooth panel with lights behind the translucent material is a common feature across the series. Remember that the 11/20 came out in 1971. I'm not sure LEDs even existed that long ago, and they certainly weren't common as lamp replacements. I no longer remember when I first saw LEDs in PDP11 consoles -- perhaps the 11/70. Some vague memory says that their lights displays looked red rather than yellow, which would fit. Digging... the schematics in the pdp11 directory at www.bitsavers.org support this: the 11/45 console schematics show lamps, the 11/70 console schematics show LEDs. The 11/20 console manual (KY11 manual) also discusses lamps and shows lamps in the schematic. paul From kth at srv.net Thu Feb 26 08:43:47 2004 From: kth at srv.net (Kevin Handy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:44 2005 Subject: Need simple file transfer program In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <403E0623.3070307@srv.net> Vintage Computer Festival wrote: >On Wed, 25 Feb 2004, Kevin Handy wrote: > > > >>If you set up kermit right (and you have a current enough version of kermit >>on both ends), you can do a recursive transfer (i.e. transfer all >>sub-directories >>automatically). Check out the following commands for more info. >> >> set rec path relative >> set send path relative >> set file coll update >> get /relative * >> send /relative * >> >>To get the latest versions, go to the source >> >> http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/ >> >>you should be able to find a version for just about anything there. >> >> > >Hi Kevin. > >Thanks for the tip. Kermit certainly rocks. I've downloaded the 3.15 >DOS version from Columbia and have been playing with it for about an hour >now and think I've got it tuned pretty well. It has some excellent >features. The only problem is, I haven't been able to figure out how to >make it do a recursive get. Online documentation is sparse, and >unfortunately, in my vast library of computer books, I have no volume on >Kermit. > >I want to be able to set the directory on the local machine and then do a >get of an entire remote volume, i.e.: > >get e:\*.* > >Which I would want to download all files and recursively traverse all >directories on remote drive e:, storing them in the local directory I >specify and preserving pathnames, filenames, and preferably attributes. >However, it only downloads files in the root directory. > >Can you point me to some relevant documentation? > > > You may need the beta version (3.16) for recursive to work http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/msk316.html I recently did this, (but from a win3.11 system to Linux) and it goes something like the following: On the transmitting side, do cd e:\ % Go to root of directory to transfer msk316 % Start kermit ...set line ...., set speed ..., etc. to assign and set up your port set send path relative % Tell it to send path information server % Go into serving mode On the receiving side cd \xxx % Go to path to receive data msk316 % Start kermit ...set line ...., set speed ..., etc. to assign and set up your port set rec path relative % Tell it to receive path information set fil coll update % Speeds things up if you have to restart receive /recursive * % Grab all the files If the transfer dies, kill the last partial file transfered, and restart. The "set fil coll update" will cause it to rapidly skip over the files already transfered. From allain at panix.com Thu Feb 26 10:21:21 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:44 2005 Subject: An oldie but goodie... References: <20040225221623.14375.qmail@web14006.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <002301c3fc84$92cb8580$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > Interview with Ken Olsen: > http://www.americanhistory.si.edu/csr/comphist/olsen.html A Test! There are some bleeped words therein. They seems to be just oversights of the transcriber, not security issues. Wonder what they are? - - - "So we had to make a major switching system to allow an operator far away to turn on the ______ system automatically." "When there was some logistical problem in the operation of _______, that was our job." "It was the mathematics used to design large networks and switches. And it was directly _______ to computer type work." Analogous? "IBM's next generation of computers use core memory ________ switches." "...it was exciting and we had knowledge of the very fast _______ transistor _____ which we had built a very fast computer." "Flip flop holds two states which it holds the ________. Gates, you'll put various combinations of signals in and if the right combination is met, the signal gets through." "We are not considered a marketing company because we don't spend money on _______ markets." - - - John A. From jpl15 at panix.com Thu Feb 26 10:34:29 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:44 2005 Subject: An oldie but goodie... In-Reply-To: <002301c3fc84$92cb8580$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> References: <20040225221623.14375.qmail@web14006.mail.yahoo.com> <002301c3fc84$92cb8580$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: On Thu, 26 Feb 2004, John Allain wrote: > > Interview with Ken Olsen: > > http://www.americanhistory.si.edu/csr/comphist/olsen.html > > A Test! > There are some bleeped words therein. > They seems to be just oversights of the transcriber, not security issues. > Wonder what they are? > > - - - These seem to have been taped interviews, and the underscores are words that, for some reason, were unintelligble to the transcriber. A couple of them you can guess out of context - one or two are rather obscure technical terms that got 'lost' due to background noise or Ken coughing or not e-nun-ci-at-ing properly... Quite a fascinating piece, though it would have been nicer (IMHO) had the interviewer had a bit more engineering knowledge - but c'est la vie in these matters, as previous long threads (DO NOT start a new one!!) about media encounters would seem to suggest. Cheers John From ernestls at attbi.com Thu Feb 26 10:42:31 2004 From: ernestls at attbi.com (Ernest) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:44 2005 Subject: prices... In-Reply-To: <1077728095.15653.157.camel@weka.localdomain> References: <1077728095.15653.157.camel@weka.localdomain> Message-ID: <1077813750.2434.35.camel@x1-6-00-60-08-a5-df-1f> On Wed, 2004-02-25 at 08:54, Jules Richardson wrote: > does anyone keep track of real-world prices for old machines? I get the > impression from past list traffic that there are price guides available > for classic computers but they're next to useless anyway. I've been keeping track of Apple clone prices for a little over a year now, but I have less formal records going back to 2000. I can usually guess to within $5.00 or so, what the ending price on a particular clone will be, but there are still times when I am WAY off, for reasons that aren't always clear to me. I don't know if anyone else has noticed but the ending bids on most of the old computer stuff has been way down since 2001. Not all prices, but most seem to be off from their highs during the heady dot.com days. No surprise, I guess, and I'm not complaining. It sort of gives me a reason to hold on to items that I might otherwise have been tempted to sell. I also wonder if the market has been saturated. Is the group of collectors growing, or shrinking? I can't tell either way? From pkoning at equallogic.com Thu Feb 26 10:44:24 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:44 2005 Subject: An oldie but goodie... References: <20040225221623.14375.qmail@web14006.mail.yahoo.com> <002301c3fc84$92cb8580$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <16446.8808.998715.980846@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "John" == John Lawson writes: John> On Thu, 26 Feb 2004, John Allain wrote: >> > Interview with Ken Olsen: > >> http://www.americanhistory.si.edu/csr/comphist/olsen.html >> ... John> Quite a fascinating piece, though it would have been nicer John> (IMHO) had the interviewer had a bit more engineering knowledge Or other knowledge to help him poke at weaknesses. I saw (in a cursory scan) nothing about Ken's bad habit of setting up several competing projects inside (often with N-1 being canceled at the last minute, but not always), as if there wasn't enough competition outside. Or his bad habit of personally redesigning product details at the very last moment. The MMJ connector is an example of the latter problem; examples of the former are harder to spot though the three PCs (Rainbow/DECmate/Pro) may be an example. paul From curt at atarimuseum.com Thu Feb 26 11:17:44 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:44 2005 Subject: Here's a weird one (kinda OT) References: Message-ID: <074b01c3fc8c$72f95630$1a02a8c0@starship1> Oh, okay, never read the faq before, this was learning out of experience many many years ago at 2am in the morning at a client site with the IT manager breathing over my shoulder because a server was down and needed its NIC's replaced.... Ah.... the good old days ;-) Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vintage Computer Festival" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2004 11:28 PM Subject: Re: Here's a weird one (kinda OT) > On Wed, 25 Feb 2004, Curt Vendel wrote: > > > The TPO's were 3COM 509's (bad children) I had many issues with those > > adapters, I especially had issues with them playing well with others. > > On a few installs of Novell and Win NT servers, when 2 or more of these > > were in the servers I found that they had to be installed one at a time > > and configured one at a time then they could all be installed and > > tested... However have a 509b-TPO and another nic like SMC or Intel > > and talk about seeing a piece of h/w throw a tantrum. > > This is actually somewhat addressed in the 509 FAQ on 3Com's website, and > their solution is as you describe (plug in one and install, then plug in > the other and repeat). > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage mputers ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > From vcf at siconic.com Thu Feb 26 11:19:04 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:44 2005 Subject: Archive 5945C In-Reply-To: <000801c3fc68$8a7eccf0$2201a8c0@finans> Message-ID: On Thu, 26 Feb 2004, Nico de Jong wrote: > The Archive drive I'm having problems with, carries a sticker "Model: 5945C > ", but it also has a sticker saying "LR56637". When I google around, LR56637 > also seems to be used for 150 MB SCSI drives. Is there an explanation ? Maybe the LR56637 is the model of the interface? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Thu Feb 26 11:24:13 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:44 2005 Subject: An oldie but goodie... In-Reply-To: <002301c3fc84$92cb8580$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: On Thu, 26 Feb 2004, John Allain wrote: > > Interview with Ken Olsen: > > http://www.americanhistory.si.edu/csr/comphist/olsen.html > > A Test! > There are some bleeped words therein. > They seems to be just oversights of the transcriber, not security issues. > Wonder what they are? Probably just inaudible words on the tape recordings :) No conspiracy here, move along... -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Thu Feb 26 11:45:23 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:44 2005 Subject: An oldie but goodie... Message-ID: <0402261745.AA28784@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Paul Koning wrote: > Or his bad habit of personally redesigning product details > at the very last moment. The MMJ connector is an example of the > latter problem; MMJ rocks! BTW, is Ken still alive? Someone else mentioned on this list some time ago that he is in cryosuspension at Alcor. MS From nico at farumdata.dk Thu Feb 26 11:58:56 2004 From: nico at farumdata.dk (Nico de Jong) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:44 2005 Subject: Archive 5945C References: Message-ID: <000801c3fc92$342412f0$2201a8c0@finans> Sellam wrote : > On Thu, 26 Feb 2004, Nico de Jong wrote: > > > The Archive drive I'm having problems with, carries a sticker "Model: 5945C > > ", but it also has a sticker saying "LR56637". When I google around, LR56637 > > also seems to be used for 150 MB SCSI drives. Is there an explanation ? > > Maybe the LR56637 is the model of the interface? > I find that hard to believe. The SCSI Archive drives I know, are all equipped with connectors as used on flatcables. The 5945C has an edge connector , much like a print card. Dont know how to put it more precisely Nico From tosteve at yahoo.com Thu Feb 26 11:55:27 2004 From: tosteve at yahoo.com (steven) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:44 2005 Subject: afrts 33 RPM records from the 70s - what do I do with them? Message-ID: <20040226175527.36246.qmail@web40908.mail.yahoo.com> I have a 2-foot stack of old afrts (Armed Forces Radio and Television Service) LP records from the 70's. They are used, but in good condition. They have the offficial afrts label with records contents listed. What should I do with them? (be nice) Examples: Kris Kristofferson David Cassidy Barbara Streisand Roy Clark Sweet DeFranco Family Dawn, featuring Tony Orlando John Lenon, Yoko Ono Michael Jackson Rick Springfield __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Get better spam protection with Yahoo! Mail. http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools From allain at panix.com Thu Feb 26 12:00:30 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:44 2005 Subject: PDP-11/20, was Re: ebay question References: <011201c3fc43$c2c25570$1000a8c0@winxpsp1a2100><200402261323.IAA30400@parse.com> <20040226142652.GD15055@mapo1.spole.gov> Message-ID: <00c001c3fc92$6cd48e40$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > ethan > is still also looking for a decent replacement for PDP-8/S bulbs Post a picture of one somewhere so I can check, also the voltage. > http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html I looked here, but didn't find a picture of the bulb. aside... any pictures of the domed pole station from the inside looking out?? John A. From allain at panix.com Thu Feb 26 12:08:14 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:44 2005 Subject: An oldie but goodie... References: Message-ID: <00e901c3fc93$815db520$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > No conspiracy here, move along... I was hoping that people on the list had the knowledge to fill in the blanks. The last four at the end of the list specifically. I'll take what I get. John A. From dickset at amanda.spole.gov Thu Feb 26 12:09:43 2004 From: dickset at amanda.spole.gov (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:44 2005 Subject: PDP-11/20, was Re: ebay question In-Reply-To: <00c001c3fc92$6cd48e40$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> References: <20040226142652.GD15055@mapo1.spole.gov> <00c001c3fc92$6cd48e40$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <20040226180943.GA25929@bos7.spole.gov> On Thu, Feb 26, 2004 at 01:00:30PM -0500, John Allain wrote: > > ethan > > is still also looking for a decent replacement for PDP-8/S bulbs > > Post a picture of one somewhere so I can check, also the voltage. I can't provide a picture... they are at home. They are, IIRC, under-driven 28V bulbs with drawn copper wires coming through the envelope - not the sturdy pin type used in later machines like the -8/i, -8/L and -8/e. > > http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html > > I looked here, but didn't find a picture of the bulb. > aside... any pictures of the domed pole station from the inside > looking out?? Not usually... the only openings are to tunnels. The "main entrance" is at least 75 feet from the actual dome. When you go "inside", there's a large tranverse arch you cross first... large enough for buildings to fit under (Bio-Med to the left, Old Power Plant to the right). -ethan -- Ethan Dicks, A-130-S Current South Pole Weather at 26-Feb-2004 18:00 Z South Pole Station PSC 468 Box 400 Temp -38.1 F (-39.0 C) Windchill -79.90 F (-62.2 C) APO AP 96598 Wind 11.9 kts Grid 034 Barometer 695.3 mb (10053. ft) Ethan.Dicks@amanda.spole.gov http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html From jpl15 at panix.com Thu Feb 26 12:11:30 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:44 2005 Subject: afrts 33 RPM records from the 70s - what do I do with them? In-Reply-To: <20040226175527.36246.qmail@web40908.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040226175527.36246.qmail@web40908.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Exactly what this has to do with legacy computing escapes me, Steve - but speaking as a person with many many years in the music and film business, and also many years (to the present) of audio restoration and media conversion experience: Are any of the titles NOT available on CD as compiliation or re-issue? If any are NOT (and the titles you gave are all very common everywhere) are the discs in pristine, maybe-never-played condition, in inner and outer sleeves? Have you looked at the vast array of Vinyl Record Sellers on eBay and elsewhere to compare your items with prices/desireability?? We now return our readers to their regulary-scheduled Legacy Computing Mailing List. Cheers John From pkoning at equallogic.com Thu Feb 26 12:12:19 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:44 2005 Subject: An oldie but goodie... References: <0402261745.AA28784@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Message-ID: <16446.14083.316792.908420@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Michael" == Michael Sokolov writes: Michael> Paul Koning wrote: >> Or his bad habit of personally redesigning product details at the >> very last moment. The MMJ connector is an example of the latter >> problem; Michael> MMJ rocks! Maybe so. It's what got us there that's ugly. Michael> BTW, is Ken still alive? Someone else mentioned on this Michael> list some time ago that he is in cryosuspension at Alcor. Google is not much help, it doesn't look like he's done anything since Advanced Modular Solutions went under. But cryosuspension seems very un-Ken-like. paul From curt at atarimuseum.com Thu Feb 26 12:20:41 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:44 2005 Subject: Way OT.....Anybody here using Vonage??? References: <074b01c3fc8c$72f95630$1a02a8c0@starship1> Message-ID: <076501c3fc95$3e5684d0$1a02a8c0@starship1> I know this is way off-topic, but if anyone would reply off-list: Just curious if anyone here has tried Vonage broadband phone service, I'm considering moving to it, but I want to hear from anyone who may be using it and since this is the pulse of geekdome, I figured somebody else out there may have tried them out or is going to and I could get some off-list responses and feedback, thanks. Curt From vcf at siconic.com Thu Feb 26 12:21:20 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:44 2005 Subject: Archive 5945C In-Reply-To: <000801c3fc92$342412f0$2201a8c0@finans> Message-ID: On Thu, 26 Feb 2004, Nico de Jong wrote: > I find that hard to believe. The SCSI Archive drives I know, are all > equipped with connectors as used on flatcables. The 5945C has an edge > connector , much like a print card. Dont know how to put it more precisely Those are generally refered to as IDC connectors. I wish I knew what IDC stood for. I'm not willing to take a guess right now, though I think I am close. I've seen Archive drives equipped with either IDC or edge-type connectors, and the model number usually indicates which type of connection it has. For instance, an Archive 2150S is SCSI with a 50 pin IDC, whereas an Archive 2150L has, I believe, an edge connector -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Thu Feb 26 12:22:46 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:44 2005 Subject: afrts 33 RPM records from the 70s - what do I do with them? In-Reply-To: <20040226175527.36246.qmail@web40908.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 26 Feb 2004, steven wrote: > I have a 2-foot stack of old afrts (Armed Forces Radio > and Television Service) LP records from the 70's. > > They are used, but in good condition. > > They have the offficial afrts label with records > contents listed. > > What should I do with them? (be nice) > > Examples: > Kris Kristofferson > David Cassidy > Barbara Streisand > Roy Clark > Sweet > DeFranco Family > Dawn, featuring Tony Orlando > John Lenon, Yoko Ono ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ! The Armed Forces actually published an album of John Lenon and Yoko Ono music? Now I'm convinced our nation is doomed. > Michael Jackson > Rick Springfield And this is just sick. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From rdd at rddavis.org Thu Feb 26 12:40:35 2004 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:44 2005 Subject: afrts 33 RPM records from the 70s - what do I do with them? In-Reply-To: <20040226175527.36246.qmail@web40908.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040226175527.36246.qmail@web40908.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20040226183348.GE25753@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe steven, from writings of Thu, Feb 26, 2004 at 09:55:27AM -0800: > I have a 2-foot stack of old afrts (Armed Forces Radio > and Television Service) LP records from the 70's. > > They are used, but in good condition. [...] Cool! Surely someone would want to purchase those! If I had the space and the economy was a bit better, I'd love to purchase them. They sound like collectors items, that would also be great to listen to... with a few exceptions such as the Michael Jackson album. -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From vcf at siconic.com Thu Feb 26 12:26:34 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:44 2005 Subject: Way OT.....Anybody here using Vonage??? In-Reply-To: <076501c3fc95$3e5684d0$1a02a8c0@starship1> Message-ID: On Thu, 26 Feb 2004, Curt vendel wrote: > I know this is way off-topic, but if anyone would reply off-list: > > Just curious if anyone here has tried Vonage broadband phone service, I'm > considering moving to it, but I want to hear from anyone who may be using it > and since this is the pulse of geekdome, I figured somebody else out there > may have tried them out or is going to and I could get some off-list > responses and feedback, thanks. I heard a demo on NPR's Marketplace a few weeks back and the quality is good. There's a noticeable difference between a "real" phone circuit and a vonage connection, but it's negligible, and there wasn't any latency that I could detect. Dropouts still seem to be a problem, but for what it is, I think it's worth it for at least home service. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From jwest at classiccmp.org Thu Feb 26 12:30:05 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:44 2005 Subject: IDC (Re: Archive 5945C) References: Message-ID: <012101c3fc96$8e60ac20$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Sellam wrote... > Those are generally refered to as IDC connectors. I wish I knew what IDC > stood for. I'm not willing to take a guess right now, though I think I am > close. IDC = Insulation Displacement Connector look at the way the ribbon cable attaches to the connector and the name will make sense. Note that IDC does not refer to the type of connector, rather, how the cable connects to that connector. I have seen DB25, Edge card, Berg, all different types of connectors that are IDC. I once ran across an article stating the "expected life" of IDC ribbon cable connections. It was suprisingly low, like 64 connect/disconnect lifespan. Jay West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG Thu Feb 26 12:30:45 2004 From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:44 2005 Subject: An oldie but goodie... Message-ID: <0402261830.AA28921@ivan.Harhan.ORG> Paul Koning wrote: > Google is not much help, it doesn't look like he's done anything since > Advanced Modular Solutions went under. But cryosuspension seems very > un-Ken-like. Un-Ken-like? Well, at Modular he was in effect saying that he didn't want to just retire and leave the stage, he wanted to keep doing what he loves, making computers. If he chooses (or already chose, don't know if he is still alive or not) to be buried/cremated when his time is up, then that's it. But if he opts for cryosuspension instead, then he'll be revived some time later and will be able to make computers again, this time for eternity, like a god of computing on Mt. Olympus, eating ambrosia, drinking nectar, enjoying the goddesses (so eternal life and eternal youth are never boring) and making VAXen. MS From waltje at pdp11.nl Thu Feb 26 12:32:29 2004 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:44 2005 Subject: Way OT.....Anybody here using Vonage??? In-Reply-To: <076501c3fc95$3e5684d0$1a02a8c0@starship1> Message-ID: On Thu, 26 Feb 2004, Curt vendel wrote: > I know this is way off-topic, but if anyone would reply off-list: > > Just curious if anyone here has tried Vonage broadband phone service, I'm > considering moving to it, but I want to hear from anyone who may be using it > and since this is the pulse of geekdome, I figured somebody else out there > may have tried them out or is going to and I could get some off-list > responses and feedback, thanks. I do, all the time... works fine, even from here (Holland). I talk to my son every day, at least an hour, and often we keep an 'open call' like if it were a baby-phone, so I can hear him. Setup was a nightmare, mostly because I got the Amazon package, and their Amazon-based registration stuff failed. After that, however, it worked fine, and has worked fine, since. Small comment: although I got the package with the Cisco ATA186 VoIP box, and use that when I am in the U.S., I did ask some people at Cisco (OK, so I work for em, agreed ;-) to decrypt my config file, and configured those same settings into my CallManager configuration here in Holland, because we are Cisco VoIP based to begin with... this allows me to use my standard phone stuff with that line. Cheers, Fred -- Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist Visit the VAXlab Project at http://VAXlab.pdp11.nl/ Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Mountain View, CA, USA From pat at computer-refuge.org Thu Feb 26 12:40:30 2004 From: pat at computer-refuge.org (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:44 2005 Subject: Archive 5945C In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200402261340.30869.pat@computer-refuge.org> On Thursday 26 February 2004 13:21, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > Those are generally refered to as IDC connectors. I wish I knew what > IDC stood for. I'm not willing to take a guess right now, though I Insulation Displacement Connector. That refers basically to any connector that can be crimped onto a cable like ribbon cable connectors, for example. Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org From pkoning at equallogic.com Thu Feb 26 12:43:31 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:44 2005 Subject: IDC (Re: Archive 5945C) References: <012101c3fc96$8e60ac20$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <16446.15955.741381.801382@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "Jay" == Jay West writes: Jay> Sellam wrote... >> Those are generally refered to as IDC connectors. I wish I knew >> what IDC stood for. I'm not willing to take a guess right now, >> though I think I am close. Jay> IDC = Insulation Displacement Connector Jay> look at the way the ribbon cable attaches to the connector and Jay> the name will make sense. Note that IDC does not refer to the Jay> type of connector, rather, how the cable connects to that Jay> connector. I have seen DB25, Edge card, Berg, all different Jay> types of connectors that are IDC. Jay> I once ran across an article stating the "expected life" of IDC Jay> ribbon cable connections. It was suprisingly low, like 64 Jay> connect/disconnect lifespan. That's about 63 more than I would expect. Those things really are not meant to be reused. There's an analogous technology in connectors for printed circuit boards. Those are "press fit" connectors -- the pins have springy sides that wedge into the plated through holes. Backplane connectors are often done that way, and larger connectors in general in these modern surface-mount days because they avoid a through-hole soldering step. But again, the assumption is that you install those exactly once. paul From allain at panix.com Thu Feb 26 12:44:42 2004 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:44 2005 Subject: An oldie but goodie... References: <20040225221623.14375.qmail@web14006.mail.yahoo.com><002301c3fc84$92cb8580$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <16446.8808.998715.980846@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <017301c3fc98$99b7e460$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > The MMJ connector is an example of the Seemed like a successful product, back then. What's been Olsened' with it? > bad habit of setting up several competing projects inside FWIW, internal competition is practiced at all market leading companies that I've seen, IBM, Seiko, HP, to name a few. Last minute changes as dictated by a team of one sound like a recipie for disaster, if that in fact was what happened. The only person I heard of getting burned in DEC was Cutler, but there must have been others. > ...where's Ken? {from another questioner} Not dead, just totally retired. I don't think his obituary would've made it past me. Sounds like from just this short transaction that the man has some enemies. Too bad, I'd like to hear him talk. John A. From dwight.elvey at amd.com Thu Feb 26 12:51:18 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:44 2005 Subject: Archive 5945C Message-ID: <200402261851.KAA26243@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Vintage Computer Festival" > >On Thu, 26 Feb 2004, Nico de Jong wrote: > >> I find that hard to believe. The SCSI Archive drives I know, are all >> equipped with connectors as used on flatcables. The 5945C has an edge >> connector , much like a print card. Dont know how to put it more precisely > >Those are generally refered to as IDC connectors. I wish I knew what IDC >stood for. I'm not willing to take a guess right now, though I think I am >close. insulation displacement connector Dwight > >I've seen Archive drives equipped with either IDC or edge-type connectors, >and the model number usually indicates which type of connection it has. >For instance, an Archive 2150S is SCSI with a 50 pin IDC, whereas an >Archive 2150L has, I believe, an edge connector > >-- > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > >[ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] >[ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > > From jeff at flambe.org Thu Feb 26 12:56:48 2004 From: jeff at flambe.org (Jeff Cole) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:44 2005 Subject: Way OT.....Anybody here using Vonage??? In-Reply-To: References: <076501c3fc95$3e5684d0$1a02a8c0@starship1> Message-ID: <20040226185648.GB17931@novylen.net> On Thu, 26 Feb 2004, Curt vendel wrote: > I know this is way off-topic, but if anyone would reply off-list: > Just curious if anyone here has tried Vonage broadband phone > service... I use VoicePulse which is cheaper than Vonage, but, isn't available in all areas. I've been very happy with it. It comes with a Sipura Phone Adaptor. One end plugs into my router, the other has a phone jack. The features I like the most are that it can e-mail me voicemail that people leave, the ability to set what the caller-id for certain numbers are (instead of the name, have it say Grandma, Parents, Boss, etc), and best of all, unlimited local and long distance calls for $25/mo. Very nice :) Also, you can have 2 seperate lines with one adapter. A line for you, and a line for your teenage daughter, or your business or whatever. I've been very happy with their service, and the sound quality is pretty decent even with 128k up. Check out http://www.voicepulse.net for the details. Jeff From jeff at flambe.org Thu Feb 26 12:56:48 2004 From: jeff at flambe.org (Jeff Cole) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:44 2005 Subject: Way OT.....Anybody here using Vonage??? In-Reply-To: References: <076501c3fc95$3e5684d0$1a02a8c0@starship1> Message-ID: <20040226185648.GB17931@novylen.net> On Thu, 26 Feb 2004, Curt vendel wrote: > I know this is way off-topic, but if anyone would reply off-list: > Just curious if anyone here has tried Vonage broadband phone > service... I use VoicePulse which is cheaper than Vonage, but, isn't available in all areas. I've been very happy with it. It comes with a Sipura Phone Adaptor. One end plugs into my router, the other has a phone jack. The features I like the most are that it can e-mail me voicemail that people leave, the ability to set what the caller-id for certain numbers are (instead of the name, have it say Grandma, Parents, Boss, etc), and best of all, unlimited local and long distance calls for $25/mo. Very nice :) Also, you can have 2 seperate lines with one adapter. A line for you, and a line for your teenage daughter, or your business or whatever. I've been very happy with their service, and the sound quality is pretty decent even with 128k up. Check out http://www.voicepulse.net for the details. Jeff From pkoning at equallogic.com Thu Feb 26 13:12:22 2004 From: pkoning at equallogic.com (Paul Koning) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:45 2005 Subject: An oldie but goodie... References: <20040225221623.14375.qmail@web14006.mail.yahoo.com> <002301c3fc84$92cb8580$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <16446.8808.998715.980846@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <017301c3fc98$99b7e460$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <16446.17686.999367.364435@gargle.gargle.HOWL> >>>>> "John" == John Allain writes: >> The MMJ connector is an example of the John> Seemed like a successful product, back then. What's been John> Olsened' with it? The DECserver-100 -- the first LAT terminal server from DEC -- was almost ready for release. It came in a fairly small box, about the same dimensions as two fairly large laptops stacked on top of each other. It had terminal connectors with snap latches on the side. Ken came in at the last minute and decreed that (a) it had to go into a larger box, and (b) it had to use different connectors, the MMJ connectors. The result was that the initial release of that product came in a large box with a small PC board inside, and 8 jumper cables to connect from the original terminal connectors on the board to the MMJ jacks in the new cabinet. Needless to say, this caused a significant product delay as well as some highly annoyed engineers. As a result, Ken was at times referred to as "the chief connector architect". This was not by any means the only example of Ken meddling in the detailed design engineering of a project. That's perhaps understandable in a startup (but you have to do it at the right time); it makes no sense in a 50,000 person company. >> bad habit of setting up several competing projects inside John> FWIW, internal competition is practiced at all market leading John> companies that I've seen, IBM, Seiko, HP, to name a few. John> Last minute changes as dictated by a team of one sound like a John> recipie for disaster, if that in fact was what happened. The John> only person I heard of getting burned in DEC was Cutler, but John> there must have been others. There were whole competing organizations: the networking products group in Littleton vs. the Low End networking products group in Maynard. Those ended up both shipping product, which wasted resources (money) and confused customers. Various VAXen had the same issue, for example the 8800 vs. a watercooled variant thereof, or the 8800 vs. the next lower series (7000? 6000? I forgot). Cutler's case may have been a bit different, though he did end up in at least one major project that went a long way and was then canceled. That was the second RISC project at DEC -- it was the THIRD that finally made it to product release (the Alpha). In the meantime, so much time was wasted that MIPS had to be brought in to save the day. >> ...where's Ken? {from another questioner} John> Not dead, just totally retired. I don't think his obituary John> would've made it past me. Sounds like from just this short John> transaction that the man has some enemies. Too bad, I'd like John> to hear him talk. I hope that "enemy" wasn't applied to my comments. I have no personal problems with Ken, I don't know him well enough and what little contact I had with him was certainly pleasant. My issues are around management inability. Not that his successor was any better, just the opposite actually; he actually set out to dismantle the company and succeeded, while the worst Ken ever did was to botch up what should have been a lot more successful. paul From jwest at classiccmp.org Thu Feb 26 13:12:16 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:45 2005 Subject: HP 2100/21MX assembler question Message-ID: <016f01c3fc9c$7276ec80$033310ac@kwcorp.com> If one codes a set of "micro" instructions in the Alter-Skip-Group as follows: LBL1 CLE,SEZ CLear E, Skip if E Zero Instruction 002140, would not one expect this to always skip the next instruction??? I would think E has been cleared, so the Skip if E Zero becomes true. Jay West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Feb 26 13:26:47 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:45 2005 Subject: IDC (was: Archive 5945C In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040226112416.A93046@newshell.lmi.net> On Thu, 26 Feb 2004, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > I find that hard to believe. The SCSI Archive drives I know, are all > > equipped with connectors as used on flatcables. The 5945C has an edge > > connector , much like a print card. Dont know how to put it more precisely > Those are generally refered to as IDC connectors. I wish I knew what IDC > stood for. I'm not willing to take a guess right now, though I think I am > close. "Insulation Displacement Connector" applies to most crimp-on connectors that peirce the insulation quick, easy, not as reliable as competent soldering From tomj at wps.com Thu Feb 26 13:56:18 2004 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:45 2005 Subject: Need simple file transfer program In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1077824547.2047.22.camel@dhcp-251098> On Wed, 2004-02-25 at 21:04, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > It's funny how the Columbia folks put up a big FAQ trying to dispel > various rumors about how Kermit is slow and inefficient and how Kermit is > superior to everything because it will work under pretty much any > condition (line noise, funky hardware, etc.) "out of the box" and ... it > doesn't. Foo. > > Lamoids. > > Unless there's a Kermit expert out there who can tell me what I'm doing > wrong, I'm writing Kermit off (and those foolios at Columbia...dorks). Kermit is a great program, but people get religion about things, and that never helps. It's great, but also suffers from versionitis, creeping featuritis, and a number of other ills, and sometimes too much complexity. I can't recall the commands, but if the problem is serial port handshaking, you can probably eliminate that by turning off the sliding window feature, and going to ACK per packet, with 128-byte packets (or smaller) and turn quoting off. This will KILL performance, but my take on this sort of thing, YMMV, is that if it's a one time job, and the RELIABLE solution is exceedingly slow, it's likely faster to just wait and let the computer do it's foolish work while the wily human sleeps, eats or watches TV. But you can make kermit work with a "three wire" serial port. XMODEM and it's ilk will lose all timestamps, and all files will be rounded up to the next highest 128 bytes, filled with ^Zs. ZMODEM-capable programs may do what you want, if the user-interface code will do recursion. ZMODEM is fast as blazes, it doesn't get any faster (I have done EXHAUSTIVE testing on file xfer protocols back in the FidoNet days, and for-real ZMODEM has unbelievably low overhead and EXCELLENT error-recovery -- Chuck Forsberg designed well and wrote *good* code), and sorry Kermit people, does most of the nifty stuff that Kermit does, EXCEPT if I remember correctly it's text transformations are almost non-existent (but it sounds like you don't care about that). From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Feb 26 13:46:21 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:45 2005 Subject: Need simple file transfer program In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040226113635.X93046@newshell.lmi.net> On Wed, 25 Feb 2004, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > > > scrap the entire serial port copncept; hook up a zip drive, and xcopy the > > > > bernoulli to a zip disk? > Sorry. I'm starting to realize my temporal sense of PC hardware and > software is not all that accurate. I made several assumptions regarding > the use of "modern" hardware on "ancient" PCs (my idea of DOS 3.30 is > something that is too old to support Microsoft's TCP/IP drivers or ZIP > drives and whatnot) and realize now I am ignorant. It's all relative and very subjective. I just can't think of ZIP drives as being "modern". (even their current models) ... and DOS 3.30 is "RECENT"! > Oh well, when I have time to experiment with this stuff then I will, but > for now there's work to be done ;) that sucks; nothing like work to get in the way of a decent life. howzbout: get a small stack of MFM hard drives, (each <32M) connect them one at a time as second hard drive (leave the case open, don't bolt them in) xcopy each bernoulli to a hard drive /e/s/v From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Feb 26 13:47:38 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:45 2005 Subject: afrts 33 RPM records from the 70s - what do I do with them? In-Reply-To: <20040226183348.GE25753@rhiannon.rddavis.org> References: <20040226175527.36246.qmail@web40908.mail.yahoo.com> <20040226183348.GE25753@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: >Quothe steven, from writings of Thu, Feb 26, 2004 at 09:55:27AM -0800: >> I have a 2-foot stack of old afrts (Armed Forces Radio >> and Television Service) LP records from the 70's. >> >> They are used, but in good condition. >[...] > >Cool! Surely someone would want to purchase those! If I had the space >and the economy was a bit better, I'd love to purchase them. They sound >like collectors items, that would also be great to listen to... with a few >exceptions such as the Michael Jackson album. Agreed! My wife and I love LP's. You can pick them up dirt cheap (at BadWill the boxed sets are especially nice as it's harder for the idiots that work there to trash them), and if you like old music you can find tons of stuff you couldn't get otherwise. Stuff like 78's are a bit more of a problem, as a new turntable to play them is rather expensive. Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From jwest at classiccmp.org Thu Feb 26 13:52:51 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:45 2005 Subject: HP2100/21MX assembler question Message-ID: <01b501c3fca2$1de8bf80$033310ac@kwcorp.com> If one codes a set of "micro" instructions in the Alter-Skip-Group as follows: LBL1 CLE,SEZ CLear E, Skip if E Zero Instruction 002140, would not one expect this to always skip the next instruction??? I would think E has been cleared, so the Skip if E Zero becomes true. Jay West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From vcf at siconic.com Thu Feb 26 13:55:22 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:45 2005 Subject: IDC (Re: Archive 5945C) In-Reply-To: <012101c3fc96$8e60ac20$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 26 Feb 2004, Jay West wrote: > Sellam wrote... > > Those are generally refered to as IDC connectors. I wish I knew what IDC > > stood for. I'm not willing to take a guess right now, though I think I am > > close. > IDC = Insulation Displacement Connector Ah yes, I was totally wrong then :) > look at the way the ribbon cable attaches to the connector and the name will > make sense. Note that IDC does not refer to the type of connector, rather, > how the cable connects to that connector. I have seen DB25, Edge card, Berg, > all different types of connectors that are IDC. Good to know. > I once ran across an article stating the "expected life" of IDC ribbon cable > connections. It was suprisingly low, like 64 connect/disconnect lifespan. Based on my experience with them this sounds reasonable. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From jrice54 at charter.net Thu Feb 26 14:04:01 2004 From: jrice54 at charter.net (James Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:45 2005 Subject: Way OT.....Anybody here using Vonage??? In-Reply-To: <20040226185648.GB17931@novylen.net> References: <076501c3fc95$3e5684d0$1a02a8c0@starship1> <20040226185648.GB17931@novylen.net> Message-ID: <403E5131.20700@charter.net> Jeff Cole wrote: >On Thu, 26 Feb 2004, Curt vendel wrote: > > >>I know this is way off-topic, but if anyone would reply off-list: >>Just curious if anyone here has tried Vonage broadband phone >>service... >> >> > > > I'm using Vonage and it's been flawless. From vcf at siconic.com Thu Feb 26 13:59:06 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:45 2005 Subject: Way OT.....Anybody here using Vonage??? In-Reply-To: <20040226185648.GB17931@novylen.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 26 Feb 2004, Jeff Cole wrote: > Check out http://www.voicepulse.net for the details. http://www.voicepulse.com/ ^^^ -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From jpl15 at panix.com Thu Feb 26 15:23:23 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:45 2005 Subject: Way OT.....Anybody here using Vonage??? In-Reply-To: <20040226185648.GB17931@novylen.net> References: <076501c3fc95$3e5684d0$1a02a8c0@starship1> <20040226185648.GB17931@novylen.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 26 Feb 2004, Jeff Cole wrote: > On Thu, 26 Feb 2004, Curt vendel wrote: > > I know this is way off-topic, but if anyone would reply off-list: > > Check out http://www.voicepulse.net for the details. ^^^ com Cheerz John From jwest at classiccmp.org Thu Feb 26 15:30:40 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:45 2005 Subject: HP 2100/21MX assembler question References: <016f01c3fc9c$7276ec80$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <021001c3fcaf$c83e2c60$033310ac@kwcorp.com> DOH! I'm an idiot.... When the reference manual said "The order of execution is left to right", they were obviously referring to the instruction combination chart, NOT to the instruction word itself. Nevermind *sigh* Jay West ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jay West" To: Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2004 1:12 PM Subject: HP 2100/21MX assembler question > If one codes a set of "micro" instructions in the Alter-Skip-Group as > follows: > > LBL1 CLE,SEZ CLear E, Skip if E Zero > > Instruction 002140, would not one expect this to always skip the next > instruction??? I would think E has been cleared, so the Skip if E Zero > becomes true. > > Jay West > > --- > [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > > --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From patrick at evocative.com Thu Feb 26 15:47:02 2004 From: patrick at evocative.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:45 2005 Subject: Way OT^2.....IP Phone Systems (was: Anybody here using Vonage???) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: OK, since we're in the subject area and a lot of knowledgeable folks seem to be lurking... does anyone have any recommendations/picks/pans for IP-based PBXen? I've been looking at this http://www.altigen.com/. --Patrick From jeff at flambe.org Thu Feb 26 15:55:20 2004 From: jeff at flambe.org (Jeff Cole) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:45 2005 Subject: Way OT.....Anybody here using Vonage??? In-Reply-To: References: <076501c3fc95$3e5684d0$1a02a8c0@starship1> <20040226185648.GB17931@novylen.net> Message-ID: <20040226215520.GC17931@novylen.net> On Thu, Feb 26, 2004 at 04:23:23PM -0500, John Lawson wrote: > On Thu, 26 Feb 2004, Jeff Cole wrote: > > Check out http://www.voicepulse.net for the details. > com Yes. Sorry. Teach me to post right after I wake up (I work evenings, so, 2pm is normally when I wake up) Jeff From jfoust at threedee.com Thu Feb 26 16:01:31 2004 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:45 2005 Subject: Zortech C++ compiler In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20040226160039.068a70a0@pc> At 05:42 PM 2/24/2004, you wrote: >> I wouldn't mind a copy of Manx Aztec C. ISTR there was a 6502 cross-compiler >> version made - ran on an IBM PC, produced 6502 code. Never managed to find a >> copy, though. Same goes for the "compile on a PC, run on a PC" version. > >I have an Apple ][ version (which produces 6502 code naturally) and I may >have a PC version. I'm pretty sure I also have an Amiga version. I have the MS-DOS Lattice C cross-compiler that output Amiga executables, too. I even used it at first, as a single-floppy Amiga is pretty useless for compiles, and two floppies weren't much better. - John From aw288 at osfn.org Thu Feb 26 16:06:50 2004 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:45 2005 Subject: afrts 33 RPM records from the 70s - what do I do with them? In-Reply-To: <20040226175527.36246.qmail@web40908.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: > I have a 2-foot stack of old afrts (Armed Forces Radio > and Television Service) LP records from the 70's. > > They are used, but in good condition. > > They have the offficial afrts label with records > contents listed. > > What should I do with them? (be nice) Donate them to WFMU in Jersey City, NJ (www.wfmu.org). Laura Cantrell in the Radio Thrift Shop (Saturdays afternoons) plays AFRTS records. Then listen on the net... Tax write off, as well! William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From jwest at classiccmp.org Thu Feb 26 16:23:35 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:45 2005 Subject: Way OT^2.....IP Phone Systems (was: Anybody here using Vonage???) References: Message-ID: <001101c3fcb7$2c79cb60$033310ac@kwcorp.com> 3com makes a decent unit... forget what it's called... nx200 maybe Jay West ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patrick Rigney" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2004 3:47 PM Subject: Way OT^2.....IP Phone Systems (was: Anybody here using Vonage???) > OK, since we're in the subject area and a lot of knowledgeable folks seem to > be lurking... does anyone have any recommendations/picks/pans for IP-based > PBXen? I've been looking at this http://www.altigen.com/. --Patrick > > --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From jrice54 at charter.net Thu Feb 26 17:06:46 2004 From: jrice54 at charter.net (James Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:45 2005 Subject: Way OT^2.....IP Phone Systems (was: Anybody here using Vonage???) In-Reply-To: <001101c3fcb7$2c79cb60$033310ac@kwcorp.com> References: <001101c3fcb7$2c79cb60$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <403E7C06.2050605@charter.net> NBX100. We have one at our office and it is really cool. We have had a couple of issues with it, not it's fault but actually problems with SBC. The NBX does E&M wink only on the T1 card and SBC installed a T1 that does only ground-loop signalling. We finally had to use an Adtran Atlas 550 to interface the NBX with the T1. We also had to use the Adtran to break out 8 T1 channels for analog modems as the ATA cards for the NBX are not modem compatible. The NBX is totally IP based and runs VX Works. Jay West wrote: >3com makes a decent unit... forget what it's called... nx200 maybe > >Jay West >?) > > > > >>OK, since we're in the subject area and a lot of knowledgeable folks seem >> >> >to > > >>be lurking... does anyone have any recommendations/picks/pans for IP-based >>PBXen? I've been looking at this http://www.altigen.com/. --Patrick >> >> >> >> From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Thu Feb 26 17:07:15 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:45 2005 Subject: An oldie but goodie... In-Reply-To: <16446.17686.999367.364435@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Paul Koning > Sent: 26 February 2004 19:12 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: An oldie but goodie... > > The DECserver-100 -- the first LAT terminal server from DEC > -- was almost ready for release. It came in a fairly small > box, about the same dimensions as two fairly large laptops > stacked on top of each other. It had terminal connectors > with snap latches on the side. > > Ken came in at the last minute and decreed that (a) it had to > go into a larger box, and (b) it had to use different > connectors, the MMJ connectors. The result was that the > initial release of that product came in a large box with a > small PC board inside, and 8 jumper cables to connect from > the original terminal connectors on the board to the MMJ > jacks in the new cabinet. Needless to say, this caused a > significant product delay as well as some highly annoyed engineers. I always reasoned that the DS100 was that size was so it could be easily rackmounted once you'd taken the plastic clamshell case off......it's long enough ago now for bits of product history (from the reseller side) to be merging in my head and my old Systems & Options catalogues are a long snowy trudge away in the garage....I remember that the DS100 was a 16 port DB25 server....wasn't it the DS200 that was available in either 16 port DB25 or two harmonica style MMJ boxes? The DS300 incorporated the MMJs in the back so it obviously wasn't that one. (and I've got one downstairs :) Either way, there's some good reading in that article.... Cheers -- Adrian/Witchy Owner & Webmaster, Binary Dinosaurs www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - possibly the UK's biggest online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From aek at spies.com Thu Feb 26 17:27:47 2004 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:45 2005 Subject: Archive 5945C Message-ID: <200402262327.i1QNRl1C005433@spies.com> The 5945C has an edge connector , much like a print card. Dont know how to put it more precisely -- A 5945C is the basic QIC-36 interface, 5945L is QIC-02 www.bitsavers.org/pdf/archive/ScorpionProdDescr.pdf From vcf at siconic.com Thu Feb 26 17:27:43 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:45 2005 Subject: Way OT^2.....IP Phone Systems (was: Anybody here using Vonage???) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 26 Feb 2004, Patrick Rigney wrote: > OK, since we're in the subject area and a lot of knowledgeable folks seem to > be lurking... does anyone have any recommendations/picks/pans for IP-based > PBXen? I've been looking at this http://www.altigen.com/. --Patrick It's PC-based. It's been around for about 6-7 years now so it should be fairly mature. But my pick would be the Siemens HiPath. This thing is awesome! Fully integrated VoIP telephony with traditional digital switching technology and affordably priced. Some info: http://www.siemensenterprise.com/company/corporate/about_hipath.shtml Let me know if you're interested in learning more and I'll put you in touch with my friend George. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Thu Feb 26 17:28:52 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:45 2005 Subject: Zortech C++ compiler In-Reply-To: <6.0.1.1.2.20040226160039.068a70a0@pc> Message-ID: On Thu, 26 Feb 2004, John Foust wrote: > At 05:42 PM 2/24/2004, you wrote: > >> I wouldn't mind a copy of Manx Aztec C. ISTR there was a 6502 cross-compiler > >> version made - ran on an IBM PC, produced 6502 code. Never managed to find a > >> copy, though. Same goes for the "compile on a PC, run on a PC" version. > > > >I have an Apple ][ version (which produces 6502 code naturally) and I may > >have a PC version. I'm pretty sure I also have an Amiga version. > > I have the MS-DOS Lattice C cross-compiler that output Amiga > executables, too. I even used it at first, as a single-floppy > Amiga is pretty useless for compiles, and two floppies weren't > much better. I tried to teach myself C on the Apple ][ Manx compiler. It took nearly two minutes to compile a "Hello World!" program so I gave up. Too bad I didn't have a hard drive by then. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Thu Feb 26 17:30:18 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:45 2005 Subject: Way OT^2.....IP Phone Systems (was: Anybody here using Vonage???) In-Reply-To: <403E7C06.2050605@charter.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 26 Feb 2004, James Rice wrote: > NBX100. We have one at our office and it is really cool. We have had a > couple of issues with it, not it's fault but actually problems with > SBC. The NBX does E&M wink only on the T1 card and SBC installed a T1 > that does only ground-loop signalling. We finally had to use an Adtran > Atlas 550 to interface the NBX with the T1. We also had to use the > Adtran to break out 8 T1 channels for analog modems as the ATA cards for > the NBX are not modem compatible. The NBX is totally IP based and runs > VX Works. That's why I recommend the Siemens HiPath. It is compatible with basically any interface or circuit out there. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Feb 26 18:02:19 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:45 2005 Subject: PDP-11/20, was Re: ebay question In-Reply-To: <16446.3165.966000.439319@gargle.gargle.HOWL> from "Paul Koning" at Feb 26, 4 10:10:21 am Message-ID: > Remember that the 11/20 came out in 1971. I'm not sure LEDs even > existed that long ago, and they certainly weren't common as lamp My HP9810 calculator has LED displays and a row of 5mm LEDs along the top of the keyboard for status indication (program/run mode, etc). Dunno the exact date, but it's around 1972 I think. My HP9830 even has 5*7 dot matrix LED displays in it. But LEDs were certainly not cheap back then! > Digging... the schematics in the pdp11 directory at www.bitsavers.org > support this: the 11/45 console schematics show lamps, the 11/70 My 11/45 certainly has lamps. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Feb 26 18:09:49 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:45 2005 Subject: Archive 5945C In-Reply-To: from "Vintage Computer Festival" at Feb 26, 4 10:21:20 am Message-ID: > > On Thu, 26 Feb 2004, Nico de Jong wrote: > > > I find that hard to believe. The SCSI Archive drives I know, are all > > equipped with connectors as used on flatcables. The 5945C has an edge > > connector , much like a print card. Dont know how to put it more precisely > > Those are generally refered to as IDC connectors. I wish I knew what IDC Insulationm Displacement Connector (or something very like it). It refers to the way that the ribbon cable (flatcable) is connected to the connector, without having to strip off the insulation first. IDC connectors are available in many forms. The ones you're thinking of are presumably the 2 row header sockets (as are used on, say, IDE hard drives). But IDC connecotrs are also made as edge connectors (to fit over a PCB card edge), D connectors (all sizes from DE9 to DD50 -- the last is darn expensive due to the fun of getting 3 rows of pins to connect to the cable correctly), DIL header plugs (that would fit into IC sockets), DIL sockets (not common), 2 row header plugs, Blue ribbon connectors, transition connectors (these are designed to be (permanently) soldered to a PCB after the cable had been crimped in, and avoid having to strip, tin, get into the right hole, and solder 50 wires!, and doubtless more that I've never come across. -tony From dvcorbin at optonline.net Thu Feb 26 18:39:29 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:45 2005 Subject: Archive 5945C In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >>>D connectors (all sizes from DE9 to DD50 -- the last is darn expensive >>> due to the fun of getting 3 rows of pins to connect to the cable correctly) That is a PAINFUL Memory. Many years ago a company I was involved with decided to make all their own cables. Two main reasons: Custom tailor length (things look neater), percieved cost savings. Since I was a fairly junior member of the team, making the cables was one of my tasks. Aligning the cables for the triple row of pirecers was a ROYAL pain. The only thing worse (regrding cables) as a custom connector (it was unsed on an AN/UYK although I forget the model) was one that required 2 ribbons to be inserted into a midpoint connector from opposite ends. The connector itself was deadheaded so you could NOT simply use one wide cable (easy to align) and then trim. Had to be around 1981 or 1982.... D. From rmeenaks at olf.com Thu Feb 26 18:50:52 2004 From: rmeenaks at olf.com (Ram Meenakshisundaram) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:45 2005 Subject: Diab C/C++ for the PowerPC 603/604 In-Reply-To: <6.0.1.1.2.20040226160039.068a70a0@pc> Message-ID: <0HTP00AL5X0UZU@mta4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Since everyone is in a asking mood for C/C++ compilers, here is my shameless request: I need Diab C/C++ for the PowerPC (3.x or greater). I got Portland Group's Fortran & C for the i860 if anyone needs it... Cheers, Ram From curt at atarimuseum.com Thu Feb 26 20:37:18 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:45 2005 Subject: Way OT.....Anybody here using Vonage??? In-Reply-To: <20040226185648.GB17931@novylen.net> References: <076501c3fc95$3e5684d0$1a02a8c0@starship1> <20040226185648.GB17931@novylen.net> Message-ID: <403EAD5E.9010303@atarimuseum.com> Actually, interestingly enough, I just found out that the tech-editor for the Wall Street Journal gave high praise to Vonage and VoIP services... I think I will switch one line, try it out and if happy move my other two lines, thanks all.... Curt Jeff Cole wrote: >On Thu, 26 Feb 2004, Curt vendel wrote: > > >>I know this is way off-topic, but if anyone would reply off-list: >>Just curious if anyone here has tried Vonage broadband phone >>service... >> >> > > >I use VoicePulse which is cheaper than Vonage, but, isn't available in >all areas. I've been very happy with it. It comes with a Sipura Phone >Adaptor. One end plugs into my router, the other has a phone jack. > >The features I like the most are that it can e-mail me voicemail that >people leave, the ability to set what the caller-id for certain numbers >are (instead of the name, have it say Grandma, Parents, Boss, etc), and >best of all, unlimited local and long distance calls for $25/mo. Very >nice :) > >Also, you can have 2 seperate lines with one adapter. A line for you, >and a line for your teenage daughter, or your business or whatever. > >I've been very happy with their service, and the sound quality is pretty >decent even with 128k up. > >Check out http://www.voicepulse.net for the details. > >Jeff > > > -- Curt Vendel & Karl Morris ----------------------------------------------------------------------- The Atari Museum http://www.atarimuseum.com The Atari Explorer http://www.atari-explorer.com From spc at conman.org Thu Feb 26 22:47:23 2004 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:45 2005 Subject: Need simple file transfer program In-Reply-To: <20040225205201.R77546@newshell.lmi.net> from "Fred Cisin" at Feb 25, 2004 08:58:58 PM Message-ID: <20040227044723.64B3210A2388@swift.conman.org> It was thus said that the Great Fred Cisin once stated: > > any reason to not use a Ward Christensen protocol program? > (XMODEM, YMODEM, ZMODEM, etc.) Unless he can't get an 8-bit clean data path, these can't be used (which sucked when I was in college because the path between the dialup modems and the computer systems I needed to communicate with was *not* 8-bit clean, even though *in theory* you could set the path as 8-bit clean, which never worked for me, so I ended up having to use Kermit *a lot* to transfer files from home). -spc (SET SESS PASSALL my shiny metal *** ... ) From spc at conman.org Thu Feb 26 22:50:23 2004 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:45 2005 Subject: Need simple file transfer program In-Reply-To: from "Vintage Computer Festival" at Feb 25, 2004 09:04:26 PM Message-ID: <20040227045023.4EA3B10A2388@swift.conman.org> It was thus said that the Great Vintage Computer Festival once stated: > > It's funny how the Columbia folks put up a big FAQ trying to dispel > various rumors about how Kermit is slow and inefficient and how Kermit is > superior to everything because it will work under pretty much any > condition (line noise, funky hardware, etc.) "out of the box" and ... it > doesn't. Foo. In my experience, Kermit worked when *everything* else failed, and for several years was the *only* was to get files into and out of my college over the dialup lines. Then again, I was usually transfering single files ... -spc (It worked, but talk about ssssllllooooooowwwwwwwww ... ) From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Feb 26 23:26:48 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:45 2005 Subject: Need simple file transfer program In-Reply-To: <20040227045023.4EA3B10A2388@swift.conman.org> References: <20040227045023.4EA3B10A2388@swift.conman.org> Message-ID: <20040226212424.P12980@newshell.lmi.net> On Thu, 26 Feb 2004, Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner wrote: > In my experience, Kermit worked when *everything* else failed, and for > several years was the *only* was to get files into and out of my college > over the dialup lines. > Then again, I was usually transfering single files ... college dialup lines seem to tend to be 7 bit. very little else is. kermit works as well for 7 bit as it does for 8 bit kermit is great for college dialup, and very little else From nico at farumdata.dk Thu Feb 26 23:32:06 2004 From: nico at farumdata.dk (Nico de Jong) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:45 2005 Subject: Archive 5945C References: <200402262327.i1QNRl1C005433@spies.com> Message-ID: <003a01c3fcf3$0ae2e400$2201a8c0@finans> Thanks Al, Just What The Doctor Ordered Nico ----- Original Message ----- From: "Al Kossow" To: Sent: Friday, February 27, 2004 12:27 AM Subject: Re: Archive 5945C > > The 5945C has an edge > connector , much like a print card. Dont know how to put it more precisely > > -- > > A 5945C is the basic QIC-36 interface, 5945L is QIC-02 > > www.bitsavers.org/pdf/archive/ScorpionProdDescr.pdf > > From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Feb 26 23:28:37 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:45 2005 Subject: Need simple file transfer program In-Reply-To: <20040227044723.64B3210A2388@swift.conman.org> References: <20040227044723.64B3210A2388@swift.conman.org> Message-ID: <20040226212657.U12980@newshell.lmi.net> On Thu, 26 Feb 2004, Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner wrote: > > any reason to not use a Ward Christensen protocol program? > > (XMODEM, YMODEM, ZMODEM, etc.) > Unless he can't get an 8-bit clean data path, these can't be used (which > sucked when I was in college because the path between the dialup modems and > the computer systems I needed to communicate with was *not* 8-bit clean, He can get a clean 8 bit connection, because he is connecting from one of his machines to another of his machines, NOT to a college dialup. From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri Feb 27 02:02:08 2004 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:45 2005 Subject: IDC (Re: Archive 5945C) In-Reply-To: Paul Koning "Re: IDC (Re: Archive 5945C)" (Feb 26, 13:43) References: <012101c3fc96$8e60ac20$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <16446.15955.741381.801382@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <10402270802.ZM9899@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Feb 26, 13:43, Paul Koning wrote: > >>>>> "Jay" == Jay West writes: > > Jay> I once ran across an article stating the "expected life" of IDC > Jay> ribbon cable connections. It was suprisingly low, like 64 > Jay> connect/disconnect lifespan. > > That's about 63 more than I would expect. Those things really are not > meant to be reused. Jay is not talking about fitting the ribbon cable to the connector, but to connecting/disconnecting it to its mating connector. Class 3 conectors are rated for about that many mating cycles, Class 2 for 3 to 5 times that, and Class 1 for upwards of 400 cycles. You might be surprised to know that the figures are about the same for many other types of small multipole connectors. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From lyosnorezel at yahoo.com Thu Feb 26 22:28:17 2004 From: lyosnorezel at yahoo.com (Lyos Norezel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:45 2005 Subject: Linux Box + DOS 3.2 box + (1)5.25 floppy drive (okidata 3305BU) = HELP!!!!!!!! Message-ID: <20040227042817.36116.qmail@web41704.mail.yahoo.com> Hey y'all... I need some help. I recently acquired a Compaq Portable(ye right... at 35LBS no one is crazy enough to carry this machine around) II... with a hard drive and a 5.25 floppy disk drive. The hard drive apparently has MSDOS 3.2 and some Novell application. When booted up it first checks the memory then it checks active partions... then it starts going in some kinda loop looking for a file server that isn't there. I don't have any other 5.25 floppy drives so I am unable to create disks to transfer files to this box. I was wondering if it was possible to connect the floppy drive to my linux box and copy the files to the disk(s) from there and retransfer the drive to the compaq to use. Problem is that the Linux box is an RH9 platform on a PII (686) system. Would RH9 even have the needed drivers for a drive this ancient? Can this be done or am I, for all intensive purposes, screwed? Lyos Gemini Norezel --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Get better spam protection with Yahoo! Mail From vp at mcs.drexel.edu Thu Feb 26 19:13:28 2004 From: vp at mcs.drexel.edu (Vassilis Prevelakis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:45 2005 Subject: HP LIF inquiry Message-ID: <200402270113.i1R1DSTV024454@king.cs.drexel.edu> There are two utilities, one is called LIFUTIL and was initially sold by HP. This runs under MSDOS and allows floppies to be read (and even written). You can get a copy at: ftp://ftp.math.jyu.fi/pub/hpil/lifutil The second utility runs under Unix and allows access to disk images (i.e. the contents of the floppies after you have dd'd them to a Unix system). I have written this utility myself to help me xfer stuff from my HP-85 to my OpenBSD web server (www.series80.org). If you want the source, email me off the list and I will send it to you. Best Regards **vp From wmaddox at pacbell.net Fri Feb 27 09:11:27 2004 From: wmaddox at pacbell.net (William Maddox) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:45 2005 Subject: PDP-11 on VCM Message-ID: <00e101c3fd43$f8f07450$1000a8c0@winxpsp1a2100> I would like to make it clear that the seller of the PDP-11 (the 11/20 marked 11) listed on VCM is as far as I know a perfectly honest gentlemen and was not trying to be deceptive about the condition of the machine he is selling. Indeed, the pictures are up in the listing for all to see. I take issue with the description of the front panel as "very nice" if in fact it has been modified by a user, but it is certainly a subjective matter and it appears that the seller was acting in good faith and did not realize that his machine was unusual in this respect. He's apparently been busy with multiple obligations, including arranging the shipment of some other much larger machines, and just hasn't had time to deal with the 11/20. He got back to me in email yesterday, explained the situation, and was distressed at the implication that he had been deceptive. I had him pegged as an Ebay-style "Altairz" mercenary who didn't really know what he was selling but was holding out for a windfall, and I my tone reflected that. I believe that was a mistake, and that he is a serious collector as he claimed to be in his mail. A bit of Googling turned up several archival messages that indicated prior participation in the classic computing community. In the interests of full disclosure, I should also say that I haven't entirely lost interest in the machine myself, and anyone who is interested should look for themselves and draw their own conclusions about its value. Bill Maddox From jdickens at ameritech.net Fri Feb 27 09:21:19 2004 From: jdickens at ameritech.net (James Dickens) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:45 2005 Subject: C64 still in use In-Reply-To: <20040227042817.36116.qmail@web41704.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040227042817.36116.qmail@web41704.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200402270921.19820.jdickens@ameritech.net> Here's something for the C64 fans... personally I'm into Suns and Apple ][+'s but came across this and think some people here may like it. http://analogik.com/gallery_64_myer.asp James From billdeg at degnanco.com Fri Feb 27 09:50:16 2004 From: billdeg at degnanco.com (B.Degnan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:45 2005 Subject: Linux Box + DOS 3.2 box + (1)5.25 floppy drive (okidata 3305BU) = HELP!!!!!!!! Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20040227102428.02896ab0@mail.degnanco.net> I would not attempt to remove the 5 1/4" drive from the compaq, at least not yet. Someone someplace must have a 5 1/4 DOS disk and simple terminal program like Smart Term that you can use with a modem to download files to your compaq. 1) Maybe you already tried this, but ....After the computer completes the memory check and spins the 5 1/4" diskette drive, just after the drive light stops flashing, hit CTRL+BREAK to halt the autoexec.bat file from initiating the Novell program. You may have to try more than once, but you should be able to break into a DOS prompt of some kind. Next, archive the programs that call the Novell program so that they will not be executed when you boot. 2) type this command at the DOS prompt : copy autoexec.bat autoexec.nov [enter] 3) type this command at the DOS prompt: del autoexec.bat [enter] 4) type this command at the DOS prompt : copy config.sys config.nov [enter] 5) type this command at the DOS prompt: del config.sys [enter] reboot the compaq. should end with a C> prompt only. 6) create a DOS boot disk for the Linux box (oldest OS you can find), and reboot linux box into DOS. 7) you can use the serial ports on both computers to transfer files (via modem or cable). Possibilities: a) There is a program called Laplink that you can use to copy files to the Compaq without using the diskette drive. You'll need a straight-through serial cable, or a parallel cable that's made specially for laplink. Using serial mode only (somehow) laplink can install itself on a target computer (compaq) through the serial port without having to install software via the disk drive. b) You can use Smart Term (or some modem program) to upload and download files from linux computer to the compaq. You'd need two modems and two phone lines. And you'd need a modem program (like smart term) on 5 1/4. you can download smart term to the linux box, and then copy to DOS formatted disks so that when you boot with DOS disk, you can swap out for the smart term disk. What I did for these situations was go to the Good will and find a PC with both 5 1/4 and 3.5" drives. Very useful! Every vintage computer hacker needs a system with multiple drive types. >Hey y'all... I need some help. I recently acquired a Compaq Portable(ye right... at 35LBS no one is crazy enough to carry this machine >around) II... with a hard drive and a 5.25 floppy disk drive. The hard drive apparently has MSDOS 3.2 and some Novell application. When >booted up it first checks the memory then it checks active partions... then it starts going in some kinda loop looking for a file server that >isn't there. I don't have any other 5.25 floppy drives so I am unable to create disks to transfer files to this box. I was wondering if it was >possible to connect the floppy drive to my linux box and copy the files to the disk(s) from there and retransfer the drive to the compaq to >use. Problem is that the Linux box is an RH9 platform on a PII (686) system. Would RH9 even have the needed drivers for a drive this >ancient? Can this be done or am I, for all intensive purposes, screwed? >Lyos Gemini Norezel From ulf.andersson at ipbolaget.com Fri Feb 27 09:56:24 2004 From: ulf.andersson at ipbolaget.com (Ulf Andersson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:45 2005 Subject: SV: PDP-11/20, was Re: ebay question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >From the Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light-emitting_diode A light-emitting diode (LED) is a semiconductor device that emits incoherent monochromatic light when electrically biased in the forward direction. This effect is a form of electroluminescence. The color depends on the semiconducting material used, and can be near-ultraviolet, visible or infrared. Nick Holonyak Jr. (1928 - ) developed the first practical visible-spectrum LED in 1962. This would probably conclude the speculations on earliest date for LEDs to appear on front panels. This has no impact on the history of DEC practise though... If anybody has more precise facts on commercial availability, please come forward and presents your facts. /Ulf Andersson > -----It was written----- > > > Remember that the 11/20 came out in 1971. I'm not sure LEDs even > > existed that long ago, and they certainly weren't common as lamp > > My HP9810 calculator has LED displays and a row of 5mm LEDs along the top > of the keyboard for status indication (program/run mode, etc). Dunno the > exact date, but it's around 1972 I think. > etc etc, ad infinitum... From brianmahoney at look.ca Fri Feb 27 10:07:16 2004 From: brianmahoney at look.ca (Brian Mahoney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:45 2005 Subject: C64 still in use References: <20040227042817.36116.qmail@web41704.mail.yahoo.com> <200402270921.19820.jdickens@ameritech.net> Message-ID: <001401c3fd4b$d6f28b60$0200a8c0@look.ca> ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Dickens" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Friday, February 27, 2004 10:21 AM Subject: C64 still in use > > > Here's something for the C64 fans... personally I'm into Suns and Apple ][+'s > but came across this and think some people here may like it. I'm in Toronto and one of our sports networks uses ancient IBM portables for it's teleprompter setup. It's the orange screen luggable from the early 80's. The kids I talked to, who were using it at a practice play-by-play booth, didn't seem at all concerned that what they were using was an antique. Hey, these things are still proving their worth all over the world it seems. B.M. From kth at srv.net Fri Feb 27 09:46:20 2004 From: kth at srv.net (Kevin Handy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:45 2005 Subject: Need simple file transfer program In-Reply-To: <1077824547.2047.22.camel@dhcp-251098> References: <1077824547.2047.22.camel@dhcp-251098> Message-ID: <403F664C.90803@srv.net> Tom Jennings wrote: >On Wed, 2004-02-25 at 21:04, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > > >>It's funny how the Columbia folks put up a big FAQ trying to dispel >>various rumors about how Kermit is slow and inefficient and how Kermit is >>superior to everything because it will work under pretty much any >>condition (line noise, funky hardware, etc.) "out of the box" and ... it >>doesn't. Foo. >> >>Lamoids. >> >>Unless there's a Kermit expert out there who can tell me what I'm doing >>wrong, I'm writing Kermit off (and those foolios at Columbia...dorks). >> >> > >Kermit is a great program, but people get religion about things, and >that never helps. It's great, but also suffers from versionitis, >creeping featuritis, and a number of other ills, and sometimes too much >complexity. > >I can't recall the commands, but if the problem is serial port >handshaking, you can probably eliminate that by turning off the sliding >window feature, and going to ACK per packet, with 128-byte packets (or > > To turn off the windows set win 1 Sometimes this setting will help if you are getting a lot of errors. >smaller) and turn quoting off. This will KILL performance, but my take > > If you are using fairly large packets, it isn't too much slower. >on this sort of thing, YMMV, is that if it's a one time job, and the >RELIABLE solution is exceedingly slow, it's likely faster to just wait >and let the computer do it's foolish work while the wily human sleeps, >eats or watches TV. But you can make kermit work with a "three wire" >serial port. > >XMODEM and it's ilk will lose all timestamps, and all files will be >rounded up to the next highest 128 bytes, filled with ^Zs. > >ZMODEM-capable programs may do what you want, if the user-interface code >will do recursion. ZMODEM is fast as blazes, it doesn't get any faster >(I have done EXHAUSTIVE testing on file xfer protocols back in the >FidoNet days, and for-real ZMODEM has unbelievably low overhead and >EXCELLENT error-recovery -- Chuck Forsberg designed well and wrote >*good* code), and sorry Kermit people, does most of the nifty stuff that >Kermit does, EXCEPT if I remember correctly it's text transformations >are almost non-existent (but it sounds like you don't care about that). > > > > From freddyboomboom at comcast.net Fri Feb 27 07:55:30 2004 From: freddyboomboom at comcast.net (Andrew Prince) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:45 2005 Subject: Linux Box + DOS 3.2 box + (1)5.25 floppy drive (okidata 3305BU) = HELP!!!!!!!! In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20040227102428.02896ab0@mail.degnanco.net> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20040227102428.02896ab0@mail.degnanco.net> Message-ID: <1077890130.2052.5.camel@localhost> On Fri, 2004-02-27 at 10:50, B.Degnan wrote: > Possibilities: > a) There is a program called Laplink that you can use to copy files to the > Compaq without using the diskette drive. You'll need a straight-through > serial cable, or a parallel cable that's made specially for > laplink. Using serial mode only (somehow) laplink can install itself on a > target computer (compaq) through the serial port without having to install > software via the disk drive. The serial cable needed is a "Null-Modem" serial cable, not a straight through. If you use a straight through cable, you will need to also use a null modem adapter and possibly a gender changer. Laplink uses the mode command to redirect the input of the keyboard to the serial port, then uses it's magic to transfer a copy of it's executable to the target pc and start it up. Kinda cool the first time you do it... I've seen it done over a dialup line so the guy at the remote end could transfer some files to my roommate's pc. The sending end tells you the commands to type in on the target pc. TTFN Andrew From vcf at siconic.com Fri Feb 27 12:05:06 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:45 2005 Subject: Linux Box + DOS 3.2 box + (1)5.25 floppy drive (okidata 3305BU) = HELP!!!!!!!! In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20040227102428.02896ab0@mail.degnanco.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 27 Feb 2004, B.Degnan wrote: > Next, archive the programs that call the Novell program so that they will > not be executed when you boot. > 2) type this command at the DOS prompt : copy autoexec.bat autoexec.nov [enter] > 3) type this command at the DOS prompt: del autoexec.bat [enter] > 4) type this command at the DOS prompt : copy config.sys config.nov [enter] > 5) type this command at the DOS prompt: del config.sys [enter] Use the REN (rename) command instead to cut this ste pin half. > a) There is a program called Laplink that you can use to copy files to the > Compaq without using the diskette drive. You'll need a straight-through > serial cable, or a parallel cable that's made specially for laplink. You'll need a NULL MODEM cable to work with serial transfers. I can send along this old copy of Laplink if Lyos wants to use it. Fastlynx is even better (as I recently discovered). This assumes you have another DOS machine though (I don't think these will work in Linux...maybe with DOSEMU). > b) You can use Smart Term (or some modem program) to upload and download > files from linux computer to the compaq. You'd need two modems and two > phone lines. And you'd need a modem program (like smart term) on 5 > 1/4. you can download smart term to the linux box, and then copy to DOS > formatted disks so that when you boot with DOS disk, you can swap out for > the smart term disk. Minicom is usually installed with most linux distributions. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From arcarlini at iee.org Fri Feb 27 12:06:50 2004 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:45 2005 Subject: An oldie but goodie... In-Reply-To: <16446.17686.999367.364435@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <004d01c3fd5c$798454c0$5b01a8c0@athlon> > The DECserver-100 -- the first LAT terminal server from DEC > -- was almost ready for release. It came in a fairly small > box, about the same dimensions as two fairly large laptops > stacked on top of each other. It had terminal connectors > with snap latches on the side. > > Ken came in at the last minute and decreed that (a) it had to > go into a larger box, and (b) it had to use different > connectors, the MMJ connectors. The result was that the > initial release of that product came in a large box with a > small PC board inside, and 8 jumper cables to connect from > the original terminal connectors on the board to the MMJ > jacks in the new cabinet. Needless to say, this caused a > significant product delay as well as some highly annoyed engineers. The DS100 had 8 DB25 connectors IIRC. The later DS200 came in two variants: DS200/MC with 8 DB25 (with modem control) and the DS200 with a harmonica connector off to a panel (I guess, I don't recall exactly) with either 8 or 16 MMJ ports. The DS300 was 16 MMJ with no RS232 variant. The DS700 was RJ45 (IIRC). So Ken fiddled with the 2nd product. I never understood why the DS200 was the way it was (rather than having the MMJs directly on the back). Maybe Ken's last minute fiddle was the problem. > There were whole competing organizations: the networking > products group in Littleton vs. the Low End networking > products group in Maynard. Those ended up both shipping > product, which wasted resources. It was always touted as a strength: make your best products fight each other and pick the winner. Worked for a while, I guess, but not in the long run. > I hope that "enemy" wasn't applied to my comments. I have no > personal problems with Ken, I don't know him well enough and > what little contact I had with him was certainly pleasant. > My issues are around management inability. Not that his He grew it from nothing to #2 computer maker in the world; that's no mean achievement. OTOH it obviously ran away from him at the end. Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From RMaxwell at atlantissi.com Fri Feb 27 13:14:57 2004 From: RMaxwell at atlantissi.com (Robert Maxwell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:45 2005 Subject: RAMTESTing a Horizon Message-ID: <9726BA9DE867D51183B900B0D0AB85F8013E48E2@inetmail.atlantissi.com> Thanks to all those who provided insight in the "Smoke on the Horizon" thread... You may be happy to hear that the machine is running now: all the blown tantalums are replaced, as well as the regulators that may have suffered due to untimely capacitive departures. I took warnings about the -5V supplies to heart and replaced all the tantala (plural of tantalum?) around the negative supplies, largely because the -5V regulators are powered from the -16V unregulated line, and the worst failures happened on caps across the +16V line. Now that the smoke has cleared, I've been RAMTESTing the 64K HRAM card, and am a little distressed to note failures. These usually occur when the program is run from fresh-from-startup RAM: once RAMTEST (3 or 5) has run through a cycle (or bombed due to an error), subsequent tests run for hours with no further problems. The failures don't seem to be bit-specific, but they've occurred mostly in the highest 16K (particularly the top 8K) of address space. Do I need to be concerned about this? Anyone know if the RAMTEST program trips up on previously-unaccessed space? Or do the RAMs need a little time/exercise to get to an internal temperature where they are stabler? These are 16Kx1 AMD devices (circa 1982), and my debug work in the past has been limited to SRAMs or higher-density DRAMs (I know, I know: I just haven't lived until I've debugged core). Regards, Bob From jpl15 at panix.com Fri Feb 27 13:45:15 2004 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:45 2005 Subject: RAMTESTing a Horizon In-Reply-To: <9726BA9DE867D51183B900B0D0AB85F8013E48E2@inetmail.atlantissi.com> References: <9726BA9DE867D51183B900B0D0AB85F8013E48E2@inetmail.atlantissi.com> Message-ID: One thing to test: since you have been experiencing power-supply gremlins - if you have a scope (or a DVM that measures AC millivolts) you might want to put it accross the power lines to the card, to see if there is a high value of 'ripple' riding on the DC lines - Excessive ripple can cause nasty little transient glitches like you describe. Then you can look to the filter capacitors to see if they might not need some TLC as well. Just a Thought... Cheers John From CyndeM at vulcan.com Fri Feb 27 13:58:29 2004 From: CyndeM at vulcan.com (Cynde Moya) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:45 2005 Subject: Microfiche User's Guide -- DEC PDP Message-ID: Hi Gang I'm looking for PDF files or other images of various hard copy manuals (4 x 6) that describes the contents, organization, and updating of the various PDP Microfiche Libraries. Also, if there is a document that describes the entirety of the Microfiche libraries, or websites with stories about DEC Microfiche, that would be very helpful. I'm organizing a whole boatload of these Fiche sets right now, and any tidbits of information would be really nice. Thanks! Cynde Moya, MLIS Archives Cataloguer Vulcan Inc. www.vulcan.com cyndem@vulcan.com Office Tel. 206-223-4901 Mobile Tel. 206.369.3205 Fax. 206-223-4207 From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Feb 27 14:12:18 2004 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:46 2005 Subject: FidoNet message archives? Message-ID: I was just thinking about how useful the Google archive is, and wondering, has anyone created an archive of the old FidoNet message archives? Unfortunately I assume most were lost due to the cost of archiving them. Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Feb 27 14:30:25 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:46 2005 Subject: Linux Box + DOS 3.2 box + (1)5.25 floppy drive (okidata 3305BU) = HELP!!!!!!!! In-Reply-To: <20040227042817.36116.qmail@web41704.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040227042817.36116.qmail@web41704.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20040227120118.B26745@newshell.lmi.net> On Thu, 26 Feb 2004, Lyos Norezel wrote: > Hey y'all... I need some help. I recently acquired a Compaq Portable(ye > right... at 35LBS no one is crazy enough to carry this machine around) > II The II is much lighter and more portable than the original Compaq "Portable" (aka "luggable") or the "Portable 286", which many of us WERE/ARE crazy enough to lug around. ... with a hard drive and a 5.25 floppy disk drive. The hard drive > apparently has MSDOS 3.2 and some Novell application. When booted up it > first checks the memory then it checks active partions... then it starts > going in some kinda loop looking for a file server that isn't there. I If the loop is during AUTOEXEC.BAT, then Ctrl-Break or Ctrl-C will work (the ap presumably uses Int 21h fn 0 - 0Ch functions) to stop the attempt and get you to the prompt. If the loop is during CONFIG.SYS, then the keyboard is not likely to be any help in stopping it. LATER versions of DOS added capability of bypassing CONFIG.SYS through keyboard intervention. The Compaq Portable II will always attempt to boot from floppy before booting from the hard drive. THEREFORE, what you need is a boot disk. Any version of DOS from 2.00 through 7.xx, on either 360K or 1.2M (the USUAL floppy on a Portable II is a 1.2M) Or you could open it up and install a 3.5" drive. The Compaq uses Torx head screws throughout. If you don't have Torx bits, then LEAVE IT ON THE SHELF UNTIL YOU DO! (I repaired a Portable on a picnic table in Hawaii using Vise-Grips 5WR, and do NOT recommend it!) DOS 3.20 supports 720K, but if you "upgrade" to 3.30, then you could use a 1.4M. If you go that route, use COMPAQ 3.31, or COMPAQ 5.00 (MODE.COM is DIFFERENT from the MODE.COM on any other "brand" of MS-DOS!) 3.31 or higher will also permit you to use hard drives larger than 32M. If you ignore this advice and install a non-Compaq DOS on it, at least save a copy of your MODE.COM. Many people will give you advice about how to transfer files to it without using the floppy. But EVERY one of those is assuming that you are able to get to the DOS prompt, and have terminal software (or at least MODE.COM) available on the machine. So,... none of that'll do you ANY good until you get a successful boot. > don't have any other 5.25 floppy drives so I am unable to create disks > to transfer files to this box. I was wondering if it was possible to > connect the floppy drive to my linux box and copy the files to the > disk(s) from there and retransfer the drive to the compaq to use. Absolutely. The Compaq uses Torx head screws throughout. If you don't have Torx bits, then LEAVE IT ON THE SHELF UNTIL YOU DO! > Problem is that the Linux box is an RH9 platform on a PII (686) system. > Would RH9 even have the needed drivers for a drive this ancient? I do not consider a 1.2M drive to be "ancient". They didn't even come out until 1983. > Can this be done or am I, for all intensive purposes, screwed? Yes. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From dwight.elvey at amd.com Fri Feb 27 14:34:52 2004 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:46 2005 Subject: RAMTESTing a Horizon Message-ID: <200402272034.MAA27263@clulw009.amd.com> Hi This is a good idea. Loads change as things warm up. It seems like I recall that there were some RAMs that needed to be written once before they worked properly. I don't know if these are among those. Still, John's suggestion is where I'd look first then you should type replacing the RAM's with a different manufacture. Dwight PS I currently work at AMD but these RAMs are way before my time here. >From: "John Lawson" > > > > One thing to test: since you have been experiencing power-supply >gremlins - if you have a scope (or a DVM that measures AC millivolts) >you might want to put it accross the power lines to the card, to see if >there is a high value of 'ripple' riding on the DC lines - Excessive >ripple can cause nasty little transient glitches like you describe. Then >you can look to the filter capacitors to see if they might not need some >TLC as well. > > Just a Thought... > >Cheers > >John > > > > From hirschopd at msn.com Fri Feb 27 14:40:30 2004 From: hirschopd at msn.com (Paul Hirsch) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:46 2005 Subject: 86/330 Problem(s) Message-ID: We have an 86/330 that will not boot. We are using the RMX 5.1 Operating System. Following power on we compete the SCT Test and begin booting and get a "Divide overflow occured". We have replaced the 8086 procrsser, the 8087 coprocessor and the memory boards. At this point we are out of options unless it is the cpu board (144548-003 Rev C). 1) if any one has any advice I would appreciate it, or if anyone has a board or computer that they would like to sell. Thanks, Paul Hirsch hirschopd@msn.com 281 255-3381 _________________________________________________________________ Find and compare great deals on Broadband access at the MSN High-Speed Marketplace. http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200360ave/direct/01/ From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Feb 27 14:41:41 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:46 2005 Subject: Linux Box + DOS 3.2 box + (1)5.25 floppy drive (okidata 3305BU) = HELP!!!!!!!! In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20040227102428.02896ab0@mail.degnanco.net> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20040227102428.02896ab0@mail.degnanco.net> Message-ID: <20040227123456.U26745@newshell.lmi.net> On Fri, 27 Feb 2004, B.Degnan wrote: > I would not attempt to remove the 5 1/4" drive from the compaq, at least > not yet. Someone someplace must have a 5 1/4 DOS disk and simple terminal > program like Smart Term that you can use with a modem to download files to > your compaq. Forget about terminal programs and everything else until you get the computer to boot. > Possibilities: > a) There is a program called Laplink that you can use to copy files to the > Compaq without using the diskette drive. You'll need a straight-through > serial cable, or a parallel cable that's made specially for > laplink. Using serial mode only (somehow) laplink can install itself on a > target computer (compaq) through the serial port without having to install > software via the disk drive. It can't install ANYTHING without software. MODE.COM is adequate, but without software, (such as MODE.COM), you CAN NOT INSTALL ANYTHING. > What I did for these situations was go to the Good will and find a PC with > both 5 1/4 and 3.5" drives. Very useful! Every vintage computer hacker > needs a system with multiple drive types. Add a 3.5" drive to the Compaq. The Portable and Portable 286 have enough room above the boards to cut a hole to mount a 3.5" drive! -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Feb 27 14:46:15 2004 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:46 2005 Subject: Linux Box + DOS 3.2 box + (1)5.25 floppy drive (okidata 3305BU) = HELP!!!!!!!! In-Reply-To: <1077890130.2052.5.camel@localhost> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20040227102428.02896ab0@mail.degnanco.net> <1077890130.2052.5.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <20040227124440.B26745@newshell.lmi.net> On Fri, 27 Feb 2004, Andrew Prince wrote: > Laplink uses the mode command to redirect the input of the keyboard to > the serial port, then uses it's magic to transfer a copy of it's > executable to the target pc and start it up. Kinda cool the first time And therefore, NOT GOING TO HAPPEN WITHOUT MODE.COM From vcf at siconic.com Fri Feb 27 15:20:35 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:46 2005 Subject: Looking for Lawrence from New Zealand/UK Message-ID: Hi Lawrence. You were one of the folks who participated in the Retro-Code Challenge at VCF 6.0. You did the Hex implementation on the Apple //e. I need your last name for inclusion in the forthcoming VCF newsletter. Please reply ASAP if you see this. THANKS! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Fri Feb 27 16:28:48 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:46 2005 Subject: 86/330 Problem(s) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 27 Feb 2004, Paul Hirsch wrote: > We have an 86/330 that will not boot. We are using the RMX 5.1 Operating > System. Following power on we compete the SCT Test and begin booting and > get a "Divide overflow occured". We have replaced the 8086 procrsser, the > 8087 coprocessor and the memory boards. At this point we are out of options > unless it is the cpu board (144548-003 Rev C). 1) if any one has any advice > I would appreciate it, or if anyone has a board or computer that they would > like to sell. Sounds like a software problem. What's an 86/330? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From george at rachors.com Fri Feb 27 16:33:36 2004 From: george at rachors.com (George Leo Rachor Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:46 2005 Subject: 86/330 Problem(s) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: OK... Down memory lane... The 86/330 was an Intel System shipped that ran RMX. It was Multibus based. I've seen them running either RMX or Xenix. The 330 chassis had a 4 slot card cage that held cpu, memory, serial ports, and an 8 inch disk controller. Fun little boxes.... George Rachor ========================================================= George L. Rachor Jr. george@rachors.com Hillsboro, Oregon http://rachors.com United States of America Amateur Radio : KD7DCX On Fri, 27 Feb 2004, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > unless it is the cpu board (144548-003 Rev C). 1) if any one has any advice > > I would appreciate it, or if anyone has a board or computer that they would > > like to sell. > > Sounds like a software problem. > > What's an 86/330? > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > > From george at rachors.com Fri Feb 27 16:39:10 2004 From: george at rachors.com (George Leo Rachor Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:46 2005 Subject: 86/330 Problem(s) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Whoops... 6 slot card cage... not 4... http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctech/2002-December/005822.html Google has become a reference manual.... George Rachor ========================================================= George L. Rachor Jr. george@rachors.com Hillsboro, Oregon http://rachors.com United States of America Amateur Radio : KD7DCX On Fri, 27 Feb 2004, George Leo Rachor Jr. wrote: > OK... Down memory lane... > > The 86/330 was an Intel System shipped that ran RMX. It was Multibus > based. I've seen them running either RMX or Xenix. The 330 chassis had a > 4 slot card cage that held cpu, memory, serial ports, and an 8 inch disk > controller. > > Fun little boxes.... > > George Rachor > ========================================================= > George L. Rachor Jr. george@rachors.com > Hillsboro, Oregon http://rachors.com > United States of America Amateur Radio : KD7DCX > > On Fri, 27 Feb 2004, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > > > unless it is the cpu board (144548-003 Rev C). 1) if any one has any advice > > > I would appreciate it, or if anyone has a board or computer that they would > > > like to sell. > > > > Sounds like a software problem. > > > > What's an 86/330? > > > > -- > > > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] > > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > > > > > > From vcf at siconic.com Fri Feb 27 16:56:22 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:46 2005 Subject: 86/330 Problem(s) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 27 Feb 2004, George Leo Rachor Jr. wrote: > http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctech/2002-December/005822.html This reminds me, when are we getting the archives back up? Hey Jay, any chance of just throwing them up and not worrying about the spam problems? We seem to have done OK what with the old archives still being searchable by Google. I surely miss the archives. I want to turn to them at least once a week and have to remember they are just not there :( I'd volunteer my time to take this issue on but I'm already drowning in projects. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From jwest at classiccmp.org Fri Feb 27 17:05:34 2004 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:46 2005 Subject: 86/330 Problem(s) References: Message-ID: <00b401c3fd86$3463b320$033310ac@kwcorp.com> The old archives are still up, just hidden :> Email me for how to get to them if you need it. Long as I've heard of you before, I'll fill you in :) Jay West ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vintage Computer Festival" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Friday, February 27, 2004 4:56 PM Subject: Re: 86/330 Problem(s) > On Fri, 27 Feb 2004, George Leo Rachor Jr. wrote: > > > http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctech/2002-December/005822.html > > This reminds me, when are we getting the archives back up? > > Hey Jay, any chance of just throwing them up and not worrying about the > spam problems? We seem to have done OK what with the old archives still > being searchable by Google. > > I surely miss the archives. I want to turn to them at least once a week > and have to remember they are just not there :( > > I'd volunteer my time to take this issue on but I'm already drowning in > projects. > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage mputers ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > > --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Feb 27 17:17:09 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:46 2005 Subject: 86/330 Problem(s) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040227181709.008aeae0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 02:28 PM 2/27/04 -0800, you wrote: >On Fri, 27 Feb 2004, Paul Hirsch wrote: > >> We have an 86/330 that will not boot. We are using the RMX 5.1 Operating >> System. Following power on we compete the SCT Test and begin booting and >> get a "Divide overflow occured". We have replaced the 8086 procrsser, the >> 8087 coprocessor and the memory boards. At this point we are out of options >> unless it is the cpu board (144548-003 Rev C). 1) if any one has any advice >> I would appreciate it, or if anyone has a board or computer that they would >> like to sell. > >Sounds like a software problem. > >What's an 86/330? Sounds like an Intel 86/330 computer (8086 CPU Multibus system). I have parts for them and I've already replied to him. Joe > >-- > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > >[ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] >[ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > > From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Fri Feb 27 17:43:05 2004 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:46 2005 Subject: An oldie but goodie... In-Reply-To: <004d01c3fd5c$798454c0$5b01a8c0@athlon> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Antonio Carlini > Sent: 27 February 2004 18:07 > To: 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts' > Subject: RE: An oldie but goodie... > > The DS100 had 8 DB25 connectors IIRC. The later DS200 came in two > variants: DS200/MC with 8 DB25 (with modem control) and the > DS200 with a harmonica connector off to a panel (I guess, I > don't recall > exactly) with either 8 or 16 MMJ ports. The DS300 was 16 MMJ > with no RS232 variant. The DS700 was RJ45 (IIRC). Yes! That's what I was thinking of....nice one Antonio :) Cheers w From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Feb 27 18:04:00 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:46 2005 Subject: HP LIF inquiry In-Reply-To: <200402270113.i1R1DSTV024454@king.cs.drexel.edu> from "Vassilis Prevelakis" at Feb 26, 4 08:13:28 pm Message-ID: > > There are two utilities, one is called LIFUTIL and was initially There are actually at least 3 :-) > sold by HP. This runs under MSDOS and allows floppies to be read > (and even written). > > You can get a copy at: > ftp://ftp.math.jyu.fi/pub/hpil/lifutil > > The second utility runs under Unix and allows access to disk images > (i.e. the contents of the floppies after you have dd'd them to a > Unix system). I have written this utility myself to help me xfer stuff > from my HP-85 to my OpenBSD web server (www.series80.org). The third is my 'LIF Utilites for Linux'. They're still very much under developemnt (at the moment, you can read files from a LIF disk on the linux box, but I've not written a program to write individual files back to a LIF disk yet, for example). You can get them (C source, GPLed) from the HPCC web site, http://www.hpcc.org. I wrote these prrograms to work with the 9114 LIF disks used on the HP41, 71, and 75 calculators. I can suggest modifications to work with other types of LIF disk (I know of somebody who read some HP high-density disks using slightly modified versions of these programs). In any case they might give you some clues if you want to write your own programs... -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Feb 27 18:07:34 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:46 2005 Subject: Need simple file transfer program In-Reply-To: <20040226212424.P12980@newshell.lmi.net> from "Fred Cisin" at Feb 26, 4 09:26:48 pm Message-ID: > kermit is great for college dialup, and very little else I use Kermit all the time, for one very good reason. It's available for just about _anything_. It's even in the ROM of my calculator. I have versions for the Acorn Cambridge, FTS Model 88, HP110, and for many other long-forgotten machines. Sure there are probably better solutions for transfering between PCs, but when you have some obscure machine.... -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Feb 27 18:11:03 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:46 2005 Subject: IDC (Re: Archive 5945C) In-Reply-To: <10402270802.ZM9899@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> from "Pete Turnbull" at Feb 27, 4 08:02:08 am Message-ID: > > Jay> I once ran across an article stating the "expected life" of IDC > > Jay> ribbon cable connections. It was suprisingly low, like 64 > > Jay> connect/disconnect lifespan. > > > > That's about 63 more than I would expect. Those things really are > not > > meant to be reused. > > Jay is not talking about fitting the ribbon cable to the connector, but > to connecting/disconnecting it to its mating connector. Class 3 In practice you normally get reliable connections after many more connect/disconnect cycles :-) I would suspect that for the normal 2-row header connectors, it's the female part that wears out. The solid pins on the male part are not likely to show much wear (assuming the plating is reasonable!). And the female, cable mounted, part is the easier one to replace (just crimp a new one a bit further up the cable, rather than having to desolder a 50 pin header from a PCB). -tony From dvcorbin at optonline.net Fri Feb 27 18:51:16 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:46 2005 Subject: IDC (Re: Archive 5945C) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Tony.... >>> I would suspect that ... it's the female part that wears out. >>> the male part ... not likely to show much wear While this may be true, it is usually a bad experience when the male part gets severely bent or broken....... <<<< apologies to all in advance, it has been a long week..... From hirschopd at msn.com Fri Feb 27 20:25:52 2004 From: hirschopd at msn.com (Paul Hirsch) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:46 2005 Subject: 86/330 Problem(s) Message-ID: Jay, I am not sure if we need them for this round but eventually we will need them. I would appreciate knowing how to get to them. Paul Hirsch >From: "Jay West" >Reply-To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic >Posts" >To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > >CC: Vintage Computer Festival >Subject: Re: 86/330 Problem(s) >Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 17:05:34 -0600 > >The old archives are still up, just hidden :> Email me for how to get to >them if you need it. Long as I've heard of you before, I'll fill you in :) > >Jay West >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Vintage Computer Festival" >To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > >Sent: Friday, February 27, 2004 4:56 PM >Subject: Re: 86/330 Problem(s) > > > > On Fri, 27 Feb 2004, George Leo Rachor Jr. wrote: > > > > > http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctech/2002-December/005822.html > > > > This reminds me, when are we getting the archives back up? > > > > Hey Jay, any chance of just throwing them up and not worrying about the > > spam problems? We seem to have done OK what with the old archives still > > being searchable by Google. > > > > I surely miss the archives. I want to turn to them at least once a week > > and have to remember they are just not there :( > > > > I'd volunteer my time to take this issue on but I'm already drowning in > > projects. > > > > -- > > > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer >Festival > > >-------------------------------------------------------------------------- >---- > > International Man of Intrigue and Danger >http://www.vintage.org > > > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage >mputers ] > > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at >http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > > > > > >--- >[This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > _________________________________________________________________ Watch high-quality video with fast playback at MSN Video. Free! http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200365ave/direct/01/ From hirschopd at msn.com Fri Feb 27 20:27:29 2004 From: hirschopd at msn.com (Paul Hirsch) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:46 2005 Subject: 86/330 Problem(s) Message-ID: Joe, do you have part numbers on the booards you have? Paul Hirsch >From: "Joe R." >Reply-To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic >Posts" >To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > >Subject: Re: 86/330 Problem(s) >Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 18:17:09 -0500 > >At 02:28 PM 2/27/04 -0800, you wrote: > >On Fri, 27 Feb 2004, Paul Hirsch wrote: > > > >> We have an 86/330 that will not boot. We are using the RMX 5.1 >Operating > >> System. Following power on we compete the SCT Test and begin booting >and > >> get a "Divide overflow occured". We have replaced the 8086 procrsser, >the > >> 8087 coprocessor and the memory boards. At this point we are out of >options > >> unless it is the cpu board (144548-003 Rev C). 1) if any one has any >advice > >> I would appreciate it, or if anyone has a board or computer that they >would > >> like to sell. > > > >Sounds like a software problem. > > > >What's an 86/330? > > Sounds like an Intel 86/330 computer (8086 CPU Multibus system). I have >parts for them and I've already replied to him. > > Joe > > > > >-- > > > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer >Festival > >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- >--- > >International Man of Intrigue and Danger >http://www.vintage.org > > > >[ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage >Computers > ] > >[ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at >http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > > > > _________________________________________________________________ Watch high-quality video with fast playback at MSN Video. Free! http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200365ave/direct/01/ From vcf at siconic.com Fri Feb 27 22:16:16 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:46 2005 Subject: SCSI Zip 100 external drives...any interest? Message-ID: I've got a number of Iomega 100MB SCSI External Zip drives with power supply and cable. Any interest at $10 each + shipping? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From dvcorbin at optonline.net Fri Feb 27 22:41:05 2004 From: dvcorbin at optonline.net (David V. Corbin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:46 2005 Subject: SCSI Zip 100 external drives...any interest? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I will take 2. Do you have ant disks to go with em..... >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org >>> [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Vintage >>> Computer Festival >>> Sent: Friday, February 27, 2004 11:16 PM >>> To: Classic Computers Mailing List; Classic Computers >>> Mailing List; Bay Area Computer Collector List >>> Subject: SCSI Zip 100 external drives...any interest? >>> >>> >>> I've got a number of Iomega 100MB SCSI External Zip drives >>> with power supply and cable. Any interest at $10 each + shipping? >>> >>> -- >>> >>> Sellam Ismail >>> Vintage Computer Festival >>> ------------------------------------------------------------ >>> ------------------ >>> International Man of Intrigue and Danger >>> http://www.vintage.org >>> >>> [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade >>> Vintage Computers ] >>> [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at >>> http://marketplace.vintage.org ] >>> From doug at blinkenlights.com Sat Feb 28 01:52:21 2004 From: doug at blinkenlights.com (Doug Salot) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:46 2005 Subject: potentially free stuff in SoCal In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I'll be in Irvine, CA March 8-9 to load my truck with some stuff I've got stored down there. Some of it is classic computer stuff, but I don't remember what I left there or how attached I am to it. But there's an excellent chance that I'll have no room in my truck for all of it, which will put me in a very giving mood. So... if you're near Irvine and you'd be interested in free stuff, feel free to give me your name, number, and general collecting interest. Absolutely no guarantees, but I plan to inventory stuff on March 8 and will call you to arrange pick-up on March 9 if there's interest. Cheers, Doug From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Feb 27 23:03:04 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:46 2005 Subject: IDC (Re: Archive 5945C) In-Reply-To: from "David V. Corbin" at Feb 27, 4 07:51:16 pm Message-ID: > > > Tony.... > > > >>> I would suspect that ... it's the female part that wears out. > >>> the male part ... not likely to show much wear > > While this may be true, it is usually a bad experience when the male part > gets severely bent or broken....... It's not _that_ hard to replace. The trick, of course, is to cut the male connector apart while it's still soldered to the PCB, and desolder it a bit at a time. If it's a straignt, vertically-mounted connector (not the right angle type), it's often possible to desolder individal pins and push them out of the moulding while hot. Then you can solder in a replacement pin, taken from another connector. -tony From doc at mdrconsult.com Sat Feb 28 00:59:19 2004 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:46 2005 Subject: IDC (Re: Archive 5945C) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Feb 27, 2004, at 11:03 PM, Tony Duell wrote: >> Tony.... >> >>>>> I would suspect that ... it's the female part that wears out. >>>>> the male part ... not likely to show much wear >> >> While this may be true, it is usually a bad experience when the male >> part >> gets severely bent or broken....... > > It's not _that_ hard to replace. The trick, of course, is to cut the > male > connector apart while it's still soldered to the PCB, and desolder it a > bit at a time. Hopefully under heavy sedation? > If it's a straignt, vertically-mounted connector (not the right angle > type), it's often possible to desolder individal pins and push them out > of the moulding while hot. Then you can solder in a replacement pin, > taken from another connector. a la John Bobbit. Doc From esharpe at uswest.net Sat Feb 28 01:28:34 2004 From: esharpe at uswest.net (ed sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:46 2005 Subject: A special Liebowitzian Illumination of the UNIVAC 422 brochure and manual are being prepared! Message-ID: <001f01c3fdcc$797e9380$c2956d44@SONYDIGITALED> A special Liebowitzian Illumination of the UNIVAC 422 brochure and manual are being prepared! Thanks Ed Sharpe archivist for SMECC Please check our web site at http://www.smecc.org to see other engineering fields, communications and computation stuff we buy, and by all means when in Arizona drop in and see us. address: coury house / smecc 5802 w palmaire ave glendale az 85301 Thanks Ed Sharpe archivist for SMECC Please check our web site at http://www.smecc.org to see other engineering fields, communications and computation stuff we buy, and by all means when in Arizona drop in and see us. address: coury house / smecc 5802 w palmaire ave glendale az 85301 From list at saracom.com Sat Feb 28 12:09:20 2004 From: list at saracom.com (list@saracom.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:46 2005 Subject: Drive Error on VS4000/VLC - "84 FAIL" Message-ID: <20040228100921.27318.h009.c000.wm@mail.saracom.com.criticalpath.net> Hello, I am attempting to install NetBSD on a VS4000/VLC. I am getting write errors when I try. So attempted to format the drive via the console: First: T/UT 10 Next choose erase hd: option 3 Enter ID and LUN Remember to type OK at the OK prompt and not y! My problem is it does not finish sucessfully. I get an "84 FAIL" error. Is there any solution or is it new drive time? I was hoping to be asking NETBSD questions. Thanks Max From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Sat Feb 28 13:01:04 2004 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:46 2005 Subject: Drive Error on VS4000/VLC - "84 FAIL" In-Reply-To: <20040228100921.27318.h009.c000.wm@mail.saracom.com.criticalpath.net> References: <20040228100921.27318.h009.c000.wm@mail.saracom.com.criticalpath.net> Message-ID: <20040228200104.7017beda.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Sat, 28 Feb 2004 10:09:20 -0800 (PST) list@saracom.com wrote: > I am attempting to install NetBSD on a VS4000/VLC. > I am getting write errors when I try. So attempted > to format the drive via the console: Most likely your drive is broken and needs to be replaced. It is never a good sign when a SCSI drive reports bad blocks. You can format a drive with NetBSD too: scsictl /dev/rsd0c format Best is to boot the VAX via anetwork for this. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From chad.martin at fli-invent.com Fri Feb 27 13:40:27 2004 From: chad.martin at fli-invent.com (Chad Martin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:46 2005 Subject: Pdp 11/20 front panels Message-ID: <005101c3fd69$915a8d50$1f01a8c0@eng1> I own an early 11/20, sn300, also of the PDP-11 only markings, like the unit in question. My front panel PCB is date stamped 1970, and it is the led type. I also have original DEC schematics that show first bulbs, and then a revision to allow bulbs or LEDs. I also have some other front panel PCBs with bulbs. My best guess would be that they did a revision for LED's, and then perhaps dropped them due to cost or availability. So it appears that LEDs were at least installed on some 11/20s. My LED unit does not have the front panel drilled out, but I suppose they may have done that for one of the early proto types while they were trying different designs. My 11/20 was supposed to have been gotten from the dec Mill factory in Mass, perhaps the early LED units were never shipped out. So it is likely that the 11/20 for sale is for real. Chad Martin From Edzard at kolks.nl Fri Feb 27 17:19:16 2004 From: Edzard at kolks.nl (Edzard H.E.H.M. Kolks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:46 2005 Subject: OHIO-DOS In-Reply-To: <200402271801.i1RI0wxP007797@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20040227231913.445262F2A0@relay3.vianetworks.nl> Hello to all, I'm looking for information on the OHIO-DOS system. Has anyone some sources, programs or historic info on this OS for the 6502? Right now I'm rebuilding an 65816 system (EC65K) which was published in 1986 by Elektuur/Elektor and was running OHIO DOS 65D V3.2. Thanks, Regards, Edzard Kolks From order at saracom.com Fri Feb 27 22:47:43 2004 From: order at saracom.com (order@saracom.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:46 2005 Subject: Format a hard drive on a VS4000 VLC Message-ID: <20040227204743.9086.h009.c000.wm@mail.saracom.com.criticalpath.net> Hello, I am trying to installed Netbsd on a VS4000 VLC. I figure why not, it doesn't suppose the vido and the video is dead on this unit. However I am getting write errors on my RZ24. So what is the command to format the drive from the console. I can not find it anywhere. There are lists for both the VS3100 and VS2000. Thanks From lyosnorezel at yahoo.com Fri Feb 27 23:50:06 2004 From: lyosnorezel at yahoo.com (Lyos Norezel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:46 2005 Subject: Linux Box + DOS 3.2 box + (1)5.25 floppy drive (okidata 3305BU) = HELP!!!!!!!! In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20040227102428.02896ab0@mail.degnanco.net> Message-ID: <20040228055006.28408.qmail@web41709.mail.yahoo.com> "B.Degnan" wrote: I would not attempt to remove the 5 1/4" drive from the compaq, at least not yet. Someone someplace must have a 5 1/4 DOS disk and simple terminal program like Smart Term that you can use with a modem to download files to your compaq. Too late... Curiousity killed the cat I suppose... turns out RH9 refuses to mount the damn disks... I even tried formating the disks in multiple modes (fat, ext2, ext3, etc.). I'll have to see if linux a a version of raw write that works in linux... lol. 1) Maybe you already tried this, but ....After the computer completes the memory check and spins the 5 1/4" diskette drive, just after the drive light stops flashing, hit CTRL+BREAK to halt the autoexec.bat file from initiating the Novell program. You may have to try more than once, but you should be able to break into a DOS prompt of some kind. Ok... I will try that tonight. 6) create a DOS boot disk for the Linux box (oldest OS you can find), and reboot linux box into DOS. The oldest I can find? Ummm... Which version ships with Winblows 98? Anyway thanks for the information. Now... to find a replacement for my HP4100 Omnibook laptop POS that won't accept RH9... anyone willing to buy a laptop without a keyboard, or an LCD screen? It still works... hell if I know how. The LCD was scraped after the damn backlight blew out and the keyboard just flat fell apart. It's got a big of superficial damage from being banged around... but it still works and might be useful as a storage computer server for older compters. Anyone? $75 plus shipping from 45424 and it's yours. Lyos Gemini Norezel --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Get better spam protection with Yahoo! Mail From john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org Sat Feb 28 05:49:21 2004 From: john_boffemmyer_iv at boff-net.dhs.org (John Boffemmyer IV) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:46 2005 Subject: SCSI Zip 100 external drives...any interest? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.0.3.0.2.20040228064829.024c6a10@mail.n.ml.org> If he doesn't, I have a few I could spare. Shipping is like 10oz for 3 I think, from 12550. -John Boffemmyer IV At 11:41 PM 2/27/2004, you wrote: > I will take 2. Do you have ant disks to go with em..... > > > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > >>> [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Vintage > >>> Computer Festival > >>> Sent: Friday, February 27, 2004 11:16 PM > >>> To: Classic Computers Mailing List; Classic Computers > >>> Mailing List; Bay Area Computer Collector List > >>> Subject: SCSI Zip 100 external drives...any interest? > >>> > >>> > >>> I've got a number of Iomega 100MB SCSI External Zip drives > >>> with power supply and cable. Any interest at $10 each + shipping? > >>> > >>> -- > >>> > >>> Sellam Ismail > >>> Vintage Computer Festival > >>> ------------------------------------------------------------ > >>> ------------------ > >>> International Man of Intrigue and Danger > >>> http://www.vintage.org > >>> > >>> [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade > >>> Vintage Computers ] > >>> [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at > >>> http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > >>> ---------------------------------------- Founder, Lead Writer, Tech Analyst and Web Designer Boff-Net Technologies http://boff-net.dhs.org/index.html --------------------------------------- From order at saracom.com Sat Feb 28 10:44:59 2004 From: order at saracom.com (order@saracom.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:46 2005 Subject: 84 Error when attempting to Format drive on VS4000/VLC Message-ID: <20040228084459.10227.h010.c000.wm@mail.saracom.com.criticalpath.net> Well I found out how to do it: First: T/UT 10 Next choose erase hd: option 3 Enter ID and LUN Remember to type OK at the OK prompt and not y! My problem is it does not finish sucessfully. I get an "84 FAIL" error. Is there any solution or is it new drive time? Thanks Max From vcf at siconic.com Sat Feb 28 17:29:43 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:46 2005 Subject: Linux Box + DOS 3.2 box + (1)5.25 floppy drive (okidata 3305BU) = HELP!!!!!!!! In-Reply-To: <20040228055006.28408.qmail@web41709.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 27 Feb 2004, Lyos Norezel wrote: > Now... to find a replacement for my HP4100 Omnibook laptop POS that > won't accept RH9... anyone willing to buy a laptop without a keyboard, > or an LCD screen? It still works... hell if I know how. The LCD was > scraped after the damn backlight blew out and the keyboard just flat > fell apart. It's got a big of superficial damage from being banged > around... but it still works and might be useful as a storage computer > server for older compters. Anyone? $75 plus shipping from 45424 and it's > yours. Hey, to the person that buys a laptop without a keyboard or screen for $75, I've got an old 5.25" floppy disk drive that doesn't read or write for $25. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Sat Feb 28 18:24:51 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:46 2005 Subject: VCF Gazette Volume 2 Number 2 Message-ID: VCF Gazette Volume 2, Issue 2 A Newsletter for the Vintage Computer Festival February 27, 2004 After an unduly long interval, here's the latest news from the Vintage Computer Festival... Vintage Computer Festival 6.0 Wrap-Up VCF 6.0 Exhibit Awards VCF 6.0 Retro-Code Video Game Programming Challenge Wrap-Up Vintage Computer Festival East 2.0 Vintage Computer Festival Europa 5.0 Vintage Computer Marketplace Hits Milestone VCF Organization Party VCF Producer Sellam Ismail on TechTV's Screen Savers March 17 Just a quick note to point out the beginning of our VCF organization parties, with the first being held on Saturday, March 6. Read on for more information. Also, please check out our new donation page on the VCF website. The VCF is running low on funds to produce future events so any help you might be able to give right now in the form of a cash contribution would be greatly appreciated and rewarded with goodies. For more information, see: http://www.vintage.org/donate.php Vintage Computer Festival 6.0 Wrap-Up ------------------------------------- VCF 6.0 was a phenomenal success! Thanks to the help of the Computer History Museum (the sponsors of the event for a second year in a row) we were able to achieve our goal of 500 attendees...and then some! Actual attendance was almost 550, beating our peak attendance record of about 450 at VCF 4.0 in 2000. VCF 6.0 featured more speakers than at any previous event, with 19 speakers in 12 conferences across 2 tracks over 2 days. We had 28 exhibitors displaying nearly 70 computers, from micros to minis to mainframes, plus rare prototypes, early PDAs, video game systems, and more. VCF 6.0 also featured the Retro-Code Video Game Programming Challenge. Three teams had three hours to write a video game from scratch. The teams worked on three computers pre-arranged by the VCF: an Apple //e, an Atari 800, and a Commodore 64. Each team turned in fantastic efforts. More on this below. Throughout the VCF weekend, the Computer History Museum held tours of its Visible Storage exhibits which allowed VCF visitors to experience a "walk through computer history". The highlight of VCF 6.0 was the Xerox Alto panel featuring Xerox Palo Alto Research Center alumni John Ellenby, Dave Robson, Peter Deutsch, and Charles Simonyi. The panel was moderated by Bruce Damer of the DigiBarn. Each panelist took their turn recounting their personal histories at PARC during the 1970s when the Alto was being developed. After the session, everyone in attendance was invited to join the panelists in wishing the Alto a happy 30th anniversary. A yummy cake bearing a photo of the Alto was served up. We've put together a photo gallery of VCF 6.0 here: http://www.vintage.org/gallery.php?grouptag=VCF60 And Bruce Damer has a fantastic VCF 6.0 overview on the DigiBarn website, including audio and video of the Alto panel and festivities: http://www.digibarn.com/history/03-10-VCF6/index.html Overall, VCF 6.0 was probably the best VCF event of all time. We'll be back again later this year to try to top it. I hope to see you there! Of course, the VCF could not have been the success it was without the terrific help of the Computer History Museum and their tremendous bunch of volunteers that turned out to help in the shadows. I thank each of the following people who volunteered their time either conducting tours of the Visible Storage area for VCF attendees or handling various VCF tasks: Remi Arnaud Dave Babcock Lee Courtney Bob Fraley Bill Goldberg Eli Goldberg John Green Tom Halfhill Peter Hamm Peter Jennings Tracy King Gail Lampert David Laws Frank Lemmon Jim Manley Julie Neff Randy Neff Dan Orsen Ray Peck Rafael Skodlar Randy Sloan Wolfgang Schaechter Tony Sumpter Fred Ware Texx Woodworth Warren Yogi Thanks also to Liza Loop and friends for helping with the setup on Friday, and everyone else who helped out that day (I just can't remember you all but thanks all the same). Special thanks to Alex Bochannek for once again doing a splendid job organizing the VCF Exhibits and heading up the judging team, and equal thanks to Lee Felsenstein and Dag Spicer for continuing their tradition as the stalwart VCF Exhibition judges. Also thanks to Stan Sieler for filling in as an alternate judge. Super special thanks to Roger Sinasohn for providing all the yummy treats and beverages, and especially for helping me out in a pinch on so many occasions. On that note, business owners might want to check out the services Roger provides at TechSynthesis: http://www.techsynthesis.com/ Extra special thanks to Bruce Damer and Galen Brandt for organizing the Xerox Alto panel and birthday bash. Of course, thanks to all the Speakers, Exhibitors and Vendors who helped to make the VCF what it is. I would like to extend a warm thanks in particular to Pam Cleveland and Jennifer Cheng, who coordinate CHM events, and Mike Walton, who handles all the technical concerns, plus all the CHM staff. They were fantastic! And finally, a heartfelt thanks to John Toole and Dag Spicer, truly friends of the Vintage Computer Festival. VCF 6.0 Exhibit Awards ---------------------- We can proclaim with much confidence that this year's exhibit at the Vintage Computer Festival was the best ever. Dozens of vintage computer enthusiasts from all over converged in the Hahn Auditorium of the Computer History Museum to put on some amazing displays. The bar has certainly been raised for future exhibits. Exhibits are graded by our panel of judges, which comprises head judge Alex Bochannek, Computer History Museum Curator of Exhibits Dag Spicer, and legendary computer industry maven Lee Felsenstein. The judges then tabulate their results and assign 1st, 2nd and 3rd place ribbons in each of five general award classes, and additional Special Award ribbons in each of 11 special categories. Finally, the People's Choice Award is a special ribbon given to the exhibit that garners the most votes from VCF attendees. Class Awards First, Second and Third Place ribbons are awarded in each of five classes that represent major areas of effort in computer collecting and preservation. Judging is based on a set of criteria including: appearance, condition, originality, authenticity, completeness, and functionality. Additional judging takes into account the breadth of the exhibit by assessing the inclusion of documentation and software. Herewith, we are proud to present the winners of this year's Vintage Computer Festival Exhibition: Class A: Homebrew, Kit or Educational Computer - Any Vintage 1st Place: Bryan Blackburn - Mark-8 2nd Place: Erik Klein - Altair 8800 3rd Place: Larry Pezzolo - Altair 680 Class B: Manufactured Personal Computer - Pre-1981 1st Place: Bryan Blackburn - the digital group 2nd Place: Erik Klein - Commodore PET 3rd Place: Erik Klein - TRS-80 Model 1 Class C: Manufactured Personal Computer - Post-1981 1st Place: Cameron Kaiser - Tomy Tutor/Tomy Pyuuta 2nd Place: Wayne Smith - IBM System/23 3rd Place: Jordan Ruderman - Apple Lisa Class D: Mini-computer or Larger System - Any Vintage 1st Place: Stephen Jones - AT&T 3B2/500 2nd Place: Jim Battle - Wang 2200 3rd Place: Pavl Zachary - DEC PDP 11/70 Class E: Open 1st Place: Vince Briel - "Replica I" Apple-1 Replica 2nd Place: Tim Lindner - Modern Intellivision 3rd Place: Jordan Ruderman - Apple eMate 300 Special Awards Special Awards are given to exhibits based on various practical and esthetic criteria. These accolades are meant to award exhibits that advance the state of computer collecting and preservation. Herewith, we are proud to present the Special Award recipients: Best Presentation: Research Larry Anderson - Commodore 8-bit Breadboxes Best Presentation: Completeness Cameron Kaiser - Tomy Tutor/Tomy Pyuuta Best Presentation: Display Bryan Blackburn - Mark-8 Best Presentation: Creative Integration with Contemporary Technology Bill Borsari - Amiga 4000 Best Preservation: Original Condition Cameron Kaiser - Tomy Tutor/Tomy Pyuuta Best Preservation: Restoration Bryan Blackburn - Mark-8 Best Preservation: Recreation Vince Briel - "Replica I" Apple-1 Replica Best Preservation: Simulation Jim Battle - Wang 2200 Emulator Best Preservation: Obscurity Chuck McManis - DEC PDP-5 Best of Show The Best of Show award determines, based on all previous judging and awards, which exhibit deserves to be singled out for special recognition. The VCF 6.0 Best of Show award went to Bryan Blackburn for his Mark-8 exhibit. Congratulations, Bryan! People's Choice Award Finally, the People's Choice Award taps into the pulse of the VCF crowd. Attendees are encouraged to submit a ballot naming their favorite exhibit of the show. The exhibit that attracted the most votes this year was Pavl Zachary's DEC PDP 11/70. Pavl (pronounced "Paul" but just spelled with a 'v' because what the hell) spent hours putting together an exhibit worthy of the most high brow trade shows. Pavl created a DEC backdrop that stood at least 7 feet tall and spanned 20 feet. Each letter of the "digital" logo was hand crafted and meticulously placed, creating a display that was right out of the heyday of the DEC we once knew and loved. Pavl's effort will surely be difficult to rival at future VCF events. I would like to congratulate ALL VCF exhibitors this year for helping to make it the best VCF exhibition yet! To see pictures of the VCF exhibitors and their machines, check out the VCF 6.0 photo gallery: http://www.vintage.org/gallery.php?grouptag=VCF60 VCF 6.0 Retro-Code Video Game Programming Challenge --------------------------------------------------- The Retro-Code Video Game Programming Challenge is a fairly new feature of the VCF. We attempted it at VCF 5.0 with mixed results, but we managed to pull it off this year and had a lot of fun! The goal of the Challenge is to program a video game from scratch on a vintage computer within 3 hours. The computer platforms, provided by the VCF, were an Apple //e, an Atari 800, and a Commodore 64. Three teams chosen from volunteers were assembled and the coding began! (In the end we couldn't get an Atari team so we ended up with two separate Apple teams). Team Apple A, comprised of Hans Franke and Eric Smith working in tandem, designed a nice maze-based role playing game. In the beginning of the game, a player rolled virtual dice (portrayed on the screen using the Apple's low resolution graphics capabilities) to determine their game character's attributes. A maze was then randomly generated and it was the player's goal to traverse the maze, gathering treasure and riches along the way while meeting all manner of evil and strange creatures that would have to be defended against. Team Commodore, comprised of Larry Anderson, developed a fantastic effort that put the player at the helm of a shopping cart in a thrift store where vintage computers were flying off the shelves and the player was required to collect as many of these computers in their shopping cart as possible. If too many computers fell to the ground and were destroyed, the player was banished from the thrift store! Larry's game employed the Commodore 64's built-in graphics sprites to render the shopping cart and vintage computers. Team Apple B was comprised of Lawrence Wilkinson who developed a nice implementation of the strategy game Hex. Larry utilized the Apple //e's high resolution graphics screen to render the Hex playing field (in 3D no less!) and used the joystick for player piece movement. He even gave the computer a simple intelligence to allow for human vs. computer play. When the three hour programming period was up, the teams were required to put their keyboards down and the judging commenced. Each team was required to demo their game to the assembled crowd, after which a hand vote was taken from the amassed spectators and a winner was chosen. Larry Anderson took 1st Place, followed by Hans Franke and Eric Smith, with Lawrence Wilkinson bringing up the rear. It was a really fun event and we're planning to expand it for VCF 7.0. Got an idea for a game? Can you write it, from scratch, in only three hours? Then come to VCF 7.0 and show your stuff! More information to come so stay tuned. Vintage Computer Festival East 2.0 ---------------------------------- VCF East 2.0 is still in the planning stages, and much progress is being made. We had hoped to hold the event sometime in April of this year, but due to several unforeseen circumstances we've decided to move the event back to sometime in June or July. We're almost ready to announce exact dates and a location (near Boston, Massachusetts), but first we need to dot some t's and cross some i's so stay tuned for further updates. So far, confirmed speakers are: o Bob Supnik, creator of the wonderful Computer History Simulation Project featuring SIMH, a universal computer simulation engine with support for dozens of vintage computer models from the DEC PDP-1 to the PDP-15 and more o Jon Titus, creator of the legendary Mark-8, one of the earliest microcomputer kits, featured in the July 1974 issue of Radio Electronics Have you got any suggestions or recommendations for speakers? By all means, please do contact us and let us know. We are planning to have a full line-up of speakers at VCF East 2.0. This would also be a good time to visit the VCF East 2.0 web page and sign up as an exhibitor: http://www.vintage.org/2004/east/exhibit.php And we've still got plenty of room for vendors: http://www.vintage.org/2004/east/vendor.php VCF East 2.0 updates will be forthcoming throughout the following weeks so be on the lookout for further announcements. Vintage Computer Festival Europa 5.0 ------------------------------------ Hans Franke is proud to bring you version 5.0 of the Vintage Computer Festival Europa. Hans has been working hard to make this year's event the best yet. The theme for VCF Europa 5.0 is User Interfaces. Exhibits and talks will focus on the human computer interface from keypunch machines to the mouse. For more information, please visit the VCF Europa website: http://www.vcfe.org/ Vintage Computer Marketplace: Phase Two --------------------------------------- The Vintage Computer Marketplace registered its 500th user sometime in December, which was a significant milestone. Since then, new users have continued to register and the current registered user count is nearing 700. We're hard at work to roll out the next release of the Marketplace software, which will add more features and options. We'll also begin to roll out our premium features which will allow you to more efficiently and effectively find those odd old computer bits you've been seeking for a while, and help you sell or trade items in your own collection. With these new features in place, we'll also be rolling out the next phase of our marketing campaign. The beta test phase is effectively over and has demonstrated that the software can handle the load of thousands of listings, so we'll be embarking on a program over the course of the next couple months to get more and more people to use the VCM to buy, sell and trade their vintage computing items instead of other services. We'll be putting into place several different types of incentives to make it the preferred marketplace on the web for vintage computers. It has been and will remain more profitable to use the VCM to sell than with other services, and for buyers we've got much better deals with much more friendly tools and a support staff that actually addresses complaints, suggestions and issues. A separate Vintage Computer Marketplace update will be coming out soon to notify you of the initiation of the new phase. In the meantime, check out the site if you haven't visited in a while and see the great items that are currently listed: http://marketplace.vintage.org VCF Organization Party ---------------------- The VCF will begin holding volunteer weekend organizations parties to accelerate the organization and cataloguing of the Vintage Computer Festival Archives. We'll be working towards getting the VCF Archives ready for the long promised Open House. We've got shelving to assemble, documents to sort, artifacts to box, books to catalog, machines to schlep, etc. The goal is to have the Archives ready to host an after-school computer and electronics lab for the local community before school lets out into summer recess. At that time, we also plan to begin hosting monthly computer collector meetings for vintage computer collectors in the Silicon Valley to gather and share experiences and information and trade computers (we'll have more on this in the next Gazette). Volunteers will be rewarded with free passes to the VCF, VCF T-shirts, and other goodies. Your contribution to this effort will be much appreciated and will help to finally make the VCF Archives fully organized and therefore more accessible to the vintage computer community. The first volunteer party will be March 6. We'll be starting at 10:00am and going until at least 5:00pm, at which point the party begins. We'll have music, food, and fun baby! If you're interested in being part of the shindig, please RSVP by Friday, March 5, via e-mail to Sellam Ismail at . The VCF headquarters is located in Livermore, California, so obviously only those local to the Silicon Valley area will be able to participate, but we won't stop anyone from flying in to lend a helping hand :) VCF Producer Sellam Ismail on TechTV's Screen Savers March 17 ------------------------------------------------------------- The VCF's Sellam Ismail will be appearing on TechTV's "The Screen Savers" program on March 17th. Sellam will be bringing along old computer media for show and tell. This will be Sellam's third appearance on The Screen Savers. Check your local listings for air times. That wraps it up for this issue of the VCF Gazette! Until next time... Best regards, Sellam Ismail Producer Vintage Computer Festival http://www.vintage.org/ The Vintage Computer Festival is a celebration of computers and their history. The VCF Gazette goes out to anyone who subscribed to the VCF mailing list, and is intended to keep those interested in the VCF informed of the latest VCF events and happenings. The VCF Gazette is guaranteed to be published in a somewhat irregular manner, though we will try to maintain a quarterly schedule. If you would like to be removed from the VCF mailing list, and therefore not receive any more issues of the VCF Gazette, visit the following web page: http://www.vintage.org/remove.php ;) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Feb 28 11:27:28 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:46 2005 Subject: 86/330 Problem(s) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040228122728.0081c500@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 02:27 AM 2/28/04 +0000, you wrote: >Joe, >do you have part numbers on the booards you have? >Paul Hirsch Here is a link to a Multibus webpage that I've been working on. . MOST of the cards that I have are listed there along with descriptions, part numbers and pictures. It's still a work in progress so there are some missing bits and pieces and I still have a stack of cards to add to it. It seems like everytime I turn over a rock around here I find more Multibus stuff :-) FWIW I gutted* four Intel 86/330s a couple of years ago so I have all the cards for them. *Before anyone complains about me gutting vintage systems I'd like to point out that these had had the hard drives removed before I got them and I didn't have any Sw or docs for them and that I spent several months trying to track down the stuff before I gave up and stripped them. I posted several requests on this list and didn't get a single reply. Joe > > >>From: "Joe R." >>Reply-To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic >>Posts" >>To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" >> >>Subject: Re: 86/330 Problem(s) >>Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 18:17:09 -0500 >> >>At 02:28 PM 2/27/04 -0800, you wrote: >> >On Fri, 27 Feb 2004, Paul Hirsch wrote: >> > >> >> We have an 86/330 that will not boot. We are using the RMX 5.1 >>Operating >> >> System. Following power on we compete the SCT Test and begin booting >>and >> >> get a "Divide overflow occured". We have replaced the 8086 procrsser, >>the >> >> 8087 coprocessor and the memory boards. At this point we are out of >>options >> >> unless it is the cpu board (144548-003 Rev C). 1) if any one has any >>advice >> >> I would appreciate it, or if anyone has a board or computer that they >>would >> >> like to sell. >> > >> >Sounds like a software problem. >> > >> >What's an 86/330? >> >> Sounds like an Intel 86/330 computer (8086 CPU Multibus system). I have >>parts for them and I've already replied to him. >> >> Joe >> >> > >> >-- >> > >> >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer >>Festival >> >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>--- >> >International Man of Intrigue and Danger >>http://www.vintage.org >> > >> >[ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage >>Computers >> ] >> >[ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at >>http://marketplace.vintage.org ] >> > >> > > >_________________________________________________________________ >Watch high-quality video with fast playback at MSN Video. Free! >http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200365ave/direct/01/ > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Feb 28 11:29:46 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:46 2005 Subject: IDC (Re: Archive 5945C) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040228122946.0089e2d0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 12:59 AM 2/28/04 -0600, Doc wrote: >On Feb 27, 2004, at 11:03 PM, Tony Duell wrote: >>> Tony.... >>> >>>>>> I would suspect that ... it's the female part that wears out. >>>>>> the male part ... not likely to show much wear >>> >>> While this may be true, it is usually a bad experience when the male >>> part >>> gets severely bent or broken....... >> >> It's not _that_ hard to replace. The trick, of course, is to cut the >> male >> connector apart while it's still soldered to the PCB, and desolder it a >> bit at a time. > > Hopefully under heavy sedation? Sedation hell! They'd have to TIE me down! Joe From uban at ubanproductions.com Sat Feb 28 19:01:34 2004 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:46 2005 Subject: VCF Gazette Volume 2 Number 2 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20040228185952.042e1400@mail.ubanproductions.com> Nice Sellam! I'm glad that it was a big success. Was Chuck McManis's PDP5 running? I would have liked to see that, along with much of the other displays... --tom At 04:24 PM 2/28/2004 -0800, you wrote: >VCF Gazette >Volume 2, Issue 2 >A Newsletter for the Vintage Computer Festival >February 27, 2004 > > >After an unduly long interval, here's the latest news from the Vintage >Computer Festival... > >Vintage Computer Festival 6.0 Wrap-Up >VCF 6.0 Exhibit Awards >VCF 6.0 Retro-Code Video Game Programming Challenge Wrap-Up >Vintage Computer Festival East 2.0 >Vintage Computer Festival Europa 5.0 >Vintage Computer Marketplace Hits Milestone >VCF Organization Party >VCF Producer Sellam Ismail on TechTV's Screen Savers March 17 > > >Just a quick note to point out the beginning of our VCF organization >parties, with the first being held on Saturday, March 6. Read on for >more information. Also, please check out our new donation page on the >VCF website. The VCF is running low on funds to produce future events >so any help you might be able to give right now in the form of a cash >contribution would be greatly appreciated and rewarded with goodies. >For more information, see: > > http://www.vintage.org/donate.php > > >Vintage Computer Festival 6.0 Wrap-Up >------------------------------------- > >VCF 6.0 was a phenomenal success! Thanks to the help of the Computer >History Museum (the sponsors of the event for a second year in a row) >we were able to achieve our goal of 500 attendees...and then some! >Actual attendance was almost 550, beating our peak attendance record >of about 450 at VCF 4.0 in 2000. > >VCF 6.0 featured more speakers than at any previous event, with 19 >speakers in 12 conferences across 2 tracks over 2 days. We had 28 >exhibitors displaying nearly 70 computers, from micros to minis to >mainframes, plus rare prototypes, early PDAs, video game systems, and >more. > >VCF 6.0 also featured the Retro-Code Video Game Programming Challenge. >Three teams had three hours to write a video game from scratch. The >teams worked on three computers pre-arranged by the VCF: an Apple //e, >an Atari 800, and a Commodore 64. Each team turned in fantastic >efforts. More on this below. > >Throughout the VCF weekend, the Computer History Museum held tours of >its Visible Storage exhibits which allowed VCF visitors to experience >a "walk through computer history". > >The highlight of VCF 6.0 was the Xerox Alto panel featuring Xerox Palo >Alto Research Center alumni John Ellenby, Dave Robson, Peter Deutsch, >and Charles Simonyi. The panel was moderated by Bruce Damer of the >DigiBarn. Each panelist took their turn recounting their personal >histories at PARC during the 1970s when the Alto was being developed. >After the session, everyone in attendance was invited to join the >panelists in wishing the Alto a happy 30th anniversary. A yummy cake >bearing a photo of the Alto was served up. > >We've put together a photo gallery of VCF 6.0 here: > > http://www.vintage.org/gallery.php?grouptag=VCF60 > >And Bruce Damer has a fantastic VCF 6.0 overview on the DigiBarn >website, including audio and video of the Alto panel and festivities: > > http://www.digibarn.com/history/03-10-VCF6/index.html > >Overall, VCF 6.0 was probably the best VCF event of all time. We'll >be back again later this year to try to top it. I hope to see you >there! > >Of course, the VCF could not have been the success it was without the >terrific help of the Computer History Museum and their tremendous >bunch of volunteers that turned out to help in the shadows. I thank >each of the following people who volunteered their time either >conducting tours of the Visible Storage area for VCF attendees or >handling various VCF tasks: > > Remi Arnaud Dave Babcock Lee Courtney > Bob Fraley Bill Goldberg Eli Goldberg > John Green Tom Halfhill Peter Hamm > Peter Jennings Tracy King Gail Lampert > David Laws Frank Lemmon Jim Manley > Julie Neff Randy Neff Dan Orsen > Ray Peck Rafael Skodlar Randy Sloan > Wolfgang Schaechter Tony Sumpter Fred Ware > Texx Woodworth Warren Yogi > >Thanks also to Liza Loop and friends for helping with the setup on >Friday, and everyone else who helped out that day (I just can't >remember you all but thanks all the same). > >Special thanks to Alex Bochannek for once again doing a splendid job >organizing the VCF Exhibits and heading up the judging team, and equal >thanks to Lee Felsenstein and Dag Spicer for continuing their >tradition as the stalwart VCF Exhibition judges. Also thanks to Stan >Sieler for filling in as an alternate judge. > >Super special thanks to Roger Sinasohn for providing all the yummy >treats and beverages, and especially for helping me out in a pinch >on so many occasions. On that note, business owners might want to >check out the services Roger provides at TechSynthesis: > > http://www.techsynthesis.com/ > >Extra special thanks to Bruce Damer and Galen Brandt for organizing >the Xerox Alto panel and birthday bash. > >Of course, thanks to all the Speakers, Exhibitors and Vendors who >helped to make the VCF what it is. > >I would like to extend a warm thanks in particular to Pam Cleveland >and Jennifer Cheng, who coordinate CHM events, and Mike Walton, who >handles all the technical concerns, plus all the CHM staff. They were >fantastic! > >And finally, a heartfelt thanks to John Toole and Dag Spicer, truly >friends of the Vintage Computer Festival. > > >VCF 6.0 Exhibit Awards >---------------------- > >We can proclaim with much confidence that this year's exhibit at the >Vintage Computer Festival was the best ever. Dozens of vintage >computer enthusiasts from all over converged in the Hahn Auditorium of >the Computer History Museum to put on some amazing displays. The bar >has certainly been raised for future exhibits. > >Exhibits are graded by our panel of judges, which comprises head judge >Alex Bochannek, Computer History Museum Curator of Exhibits Dag >Spicer, and legendary computer industry maven Lee Felsenstein. The >judges then tabulate their results and assign 1st, 2nd and 3rd place >ribbons in each of five general award classes, and additional Special >Award ribbons in each of 11 special categories. Finally, the People's >Choice Award is a special ribbon given to the exhibit that garners the >most votes from VCF attendees. > > >Class Awards > >First, Second and Third Place ribbons are awarded in each of five >classes that represent major areas of effort in computer collecting >and preservation. Judging is based on a set of criteria including: >appearance, condition, originality, authenticity, completeness, and >functionality. Additional judging takes into account the breadth of >the exhibit by assessing the inclusion of documentation and software. > >Herewith, we are proud to present the winners of this year's Vintage >Computer Festival Exhibition: > >Class A: Homebrew, Kit or Educational Computer - Any Vintage > >1st Place: Bryan Blackburn - Mark-8 >2nd Place: Erik Klein - Altair 8800 >3rd Place: Larry Pezzolo - Altair 680 > >Class B: Manufactured Personal Computer - Pre-1981 > >1st Place: Bryan Blackburn - the digital group >2nd Place: Erik Klein - Commodore PET >3rd Place: Erik Klein - TRS-80 Model 1 > >Class C: Manufactured Personal Computer - Post-1981 > >1st Place: Cameron Kaiser - Tomy Tutor/Tomy Pyuuta >2nd Place: Wayne Smith - IBM System/23 >3rd Place: Jordan Ruderman - Apple Lisa > >Class D: Mini-computer or Larger System - Any Vintage > >1st Place: Stephen Jones - AT&T 3B2/500 >2nd Place: Jim Battle - Wang 2200 >3rd Place: Pavl Zachary - DEC PDP 11/70 > >Class E: Open > >1st Place: Vince Briel - "Replica I" Apple-1 Replica >2nd Place: Tim Lindner - Modern Intellivision >3rd Place: Jordan Ruderman - Apple eMate 300 > > >Special Awards > >Special Awards are given to exhibits based on various practical and >esthetic criteria. These accolades are meant to award exhibits that >advance the state of computer collecting and preservation. > >Herewith, we are proud to present the Special Award recipients: > >Best Presentation: Research > >Larry Anderson - Commodore 8-bit Breadboxes > >Best Presentation: Completeness > >Cameron Kaiser - Tomy Tutor/Tomy Pyuuta > >Best Presentation: Display > >Bryan Blackburn - Mark-8 > >Best Presentation: Creative Integration with Contemporary Technology > >Bill Borsari - Amiga 4000 > >Best Preservation: Original Condition > >Cameron Kaiser - Tomy Tutor/Tomy Pyuuta > >Best Preservation: Restoration > >Bryan Blackburn - Mark-8 > >Best Preservation: Recreation > >Vince Briel - "Replica I" Apple-1 Replica > >Best Preservation: Simulation > >Jim Battle - Wang 2200 Emulator > >Best Preservation: Obscurity > >Chuck McManis - DEC PDP-5 > > >Best of Show > >The Best of Show award determines, based on all previous judging and >awards, which exhibit deserves to be singled out for special >recognition. > >The VCF 6.0 Best of Show award went to Bryan Blackburn for his Mark-8 >exhibit. Congratulations, Bryan! > > >People's Choice Award > >Finally, the People's Choice Award taps into the pulse of the VCF >crowd. Attendees are encouraged to submit a ballot naming their >favorite exhibit of the show. The exhibit that attracted the most >votes this year was Pavl Zachary's DEC PDP 11/70. > >Pavl (pronounced "Paul" but just spelled with a 'v' because what the >hell) spent hours putting together an exhibit worthy of the most high >brow trade shows. Pavl created a DEC backdrop that stood at least >7 feet tall and spanned 20 feet. Each letter of the "digital" logo >was hand crafted and meticulously placed, creating a display that was >right out of the heyday of the DEC we once knew and loved. > >Pavl's effort will surely be difficult to rival at future VCF events. > >I would like to congratulate ALL VCF exhibitors this year for helping >to make it the best VCF exhibition yet! > >To see pictures of the VCF exhibitors and their machines, check out >the VCF 6.0 photo gallery: > > http://www.vintage.org/gallery.php?grouptag=VCF60 > > >VCF 6.0 Retro-Code Video Game Programming Challenge >--------------------------------------------------- > >The Retro-Code Video Game Programming Challenge is a fairly new >feature of the VCF. We attempted it at VCF 5.0 with mixed results, >but we managed to pull it off this year and had a lot of fun! > >The goal of the Challenge is to program a video game from scratch on >a vintage computer within 3 hours. The computer platforms, provided >by the VCF, were an Apple //e, an Atari 800, and a Commodore 64. >Three teams chosen from volunteers were assembled and the coding >began! (In the end we couldn't get an Atari team so we ended up with >two separate Apple teams). > >Team Apple A, comprised of Hans Franke and Eric Smith working in >tandem, designed a nice maze-based role playing game. In the >beginning of the game, a player rolled virtual dice (portrayed on the >screen using the Apple's low resolution graphics capabilities) to >determine their game character's attributes. A maze was then randomly >generated and it was the player's goal to traverse the maze, gathering >treasure and riches along the way while meeting all manner of evil and >strange creatures that would have to be defended against. > >Team Commodore, comprised of Larry Anderson, developed a fantastic >effort that put the player at the helm of a shopping cart in a thrift >store where vintage computers were flying off the shelves and the >player was required to collect as many of these computers in their >shopping cart as possible. If too many computers fell to the ground >and were destroyed, the player was banished from the thrift store! >Larry's game employed the Commodore 64's built-in graphics sprites >to render the shopping cart and vintage computers. > >Team Apple B was comprised of Lawrence Wilkinson who developed a nice >implementation of the strategy game Hex. Larry utilized the Apple >//e's high resolution graphics screen to render the Hex playing field >(in 3D no less!) and used the joystick for player piece movement. He >even gave the computer a simple intelligence to allow for human vs. >computer play. > >When the three hour programming period was up, the teams were required >to put their keyboards down and the judging commenced. Each team was >required to demo their game to the assembled crowd, after which a hand >vote was taken from the amassed spectators and a winner was chosen. > >Larry Anderson took 1st Place, followed by Hans Franke and Eric Smith, >with Lawrence Wilkinson bringing up the rear. > >It was a really fun event and we're planning to expand it for VCF 7.0. >Got an idea for a game? Can you write it, from scratch, in only three >hours? Then come to VCF 7.0 and show your stuff! More information to >come so stay tuned. > > >Vintage Computer Festival East 2.0 >---------------------------------- > >VCF East 2.0 is still in the planning stages, and much progress is >being made. We had hoped to hold the event sometime in April of this >year, but due to several unforeseen circumstances we've decided to >move the event back to sometime in June or July. We're almost ready >to announce exact dates and a location (near Boston, Massachusetts), >but first we need to dot some t's and cross some i's so stay tuned for >further updates. > >So far, confirmed speakers are: > > o Bob Supnik, creator of the wonderful Computer History Simulation > Project featuring SIMH, a universal computer simulation engine > with support for dozens of vintage computer models from the DEC > PDP-1 to the PDP-15 and more > > o Jon Titus, creator of the legendary Mark-8, one of the earliest > microcomputer kits, featured in the July 1974 issue of Radio > Electronics > >Have you got any suggestions or recommendations for speakers? By all >means, please do contact us and let us know. We are planning to have >a full line-up of speakers at VCF East 2.0. > >This would also be a good time to visit the VCF East 2.0 web page and >sign up as an exhibitor: > > http://www.vintage.org/2004/east/exhibit.php > >And we've still got plenty of room for vendors: > > http://www.vintage.org/2004/east/vendor.php > >VCF East 2.0 updates will be forthcoming throughout the following >weeks so be on the lookout for further announcements. > > >Vintage Computer Festival Europa 5.0 >------------------------------------ > >Hans Franke is proud to bring you version 5.0 of the Vintage Computer >Festival Europa. Hans has been working hard to make this year's event >the best yet. > >The theme for VCF Europa 5.0 is User Interfaces. Exhibits and talks >will focus on the human computer interface from keypunch machines to >the mouse. > >For more information, please visit the VCF Europa website: > > http://www.vcfe.org/ > > >Vintage Computer Marketplace: Phase Two >--------------------------------------- > >The Vintage Computer Marketplace registered its 500th user sometime in >December, which was a significant milestone. Since then, new users >have continued to register and the current registered user count is >nearing 700. > >We're hard at work to roll out the next release of the Marketplace >software, which will add more features and options. We'll also begin >to roll out our premium features which will allow you to more >efficiently and effectively find those odd old computer bits you've >been seeking for a while, and help you sell or trade items in your own >collection. > >With these new features in place, we'll also be rolling out the next >phase of our marketing campaign. The beta test phase is effectively >over and has demonstrated that the software can handle the load of >thousands of listings, so we'll be embarking on a program over the >course of the next couple months to get more and more people to use >the VCM to buy, sell and trade their vintage computing items instead >of other services. We'll be putting into place several different >types of incentives to make it the preferred marketplace on the web >for vintage computers. It has been and will remain more profitable to >use the VCM to sell than with other services, and for buyers we've got >much better deals with much more friendly tools and a support staff >that actually addresses complaints, suggestions and issues. > >A separate Vintage Computer Marketplace update will be coming out soon >to notify you of the initiation of the new phase. In the meantime, >check out the site if you haven't visited in a while and see the great >items that are currently listed: > > http://marketplace.vintage.org > > > >VCF Organization Party >---------------------- > >The VCF will begin holding volunteer weekend organizations parties to >accelerate the organization and cataloguing of the Vintage Computer >Festival Archives. > >We'll be working towards getting the VCF Archives ready for the long >promised Open House. We've got shelving to assemble, documents to >sort, artifacts to box, books to catalog, machines to schlep, etc. >The goal is to have the Archives ready to host an after-school >computer and electronics lab for the local community before school >lets out into summer recess. At that time, we also plan to begin >hosting monthly computer collector meetings for vintage computer >collectors in the Silicon Valley to gather and share experiences and >information and trade computers (we'll have more on this in the next >Gazette). > >Volunteers will be rewarded with free passes to the VCF, VCF T-shirts, >and other goodies. Your contribution to this effort will be much >appreciated and will help to finally make the VCF Archives fully >organized and therefore more accessible to the vintage computer >community. > >The first volunteer party will be March 6. We'll be starting at >10:00am and going until at least 5:00pm, at which point the party >begins. We'll have music, food, and fun baby! If you're interested >in being part of the shindig, please RSVP by Friday, March 5, via >e-mail to Sellam Ismail at . > >The VCF headquarters is located in Livermore, California, so obviously >only those local to the Silicon Valley area will be able to >participate, but we won't stop anyone from flying in to lend a helping >hand :) > > >VCF Producer Sellam Ismail on TechTV's Screen Savers March 17 >------------------------------------------------------------- > >The VCF's Sellam Ismail will be appearing on TechTV's "The Screen >Savers" program on March 17th. Sellam will be bringing along old >computer media for show and tell. This will be Sellam's third >appearance on The Screen Savers. > >Check your local listings for air times. > > >That wraps it up for this issue of the VCF Gazette! Until next time... > >Best regards, > >Sellam Ismail >Producer >Vintage Computer Festival >http://www.vintage.org/ > > >The Vintage Computer Festival is a celebration of computers and their >history. The VCF Gazette goes out to anyone who subscribed to the VCF >mailing list, and is intended to keep those interested in the VCF >informed of the latest VCF events and happenings. The VCF Gazette is >guaranteed to be published in a somewhat irregular manner, though we >will try to maintain a quarterly schedule. > >If you would like to be removed from the VCF mailing list, and >therefore not receive any more issues of the VCF Gazette, visit the >following web page: > > http://www.vintage.org/remove.php > >;) > >-- > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > >[ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] >[ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From wh.sudbrink at verizon.net Sat Feb 28 19:45:41 2004 From: wh.sudbrink at verizon.net (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:47 2005 Subject: OHIO-DOS In-Reply-To: <20040227231913.445262F2A0@relay3.vianetworks.nl> Message-ID: > I'm looking for information on the OHIO-DOS system. > Has anyone some sources, programs or historic info > on this OS for the 6502? > > Right now I'm rebuilding an 65816 system (EC65K) which > was published in 1986 by Elektuur/Elektor and was running > OHIO DOS 65D V3.2. Ohio Scientific Instruments (OSI) had a 6502 OS in the late 1970's and early 1980's called OS-65D. They were bought by MA/COM (sometimes mistyped as MA-COM) who carried on for a couple of years. I don't know whether they licensed it to any other vendors, but you might Google for OS-65D. Also, OS-65U was their multi user OS. I'm a "fan" of OSI, if it turns out that this is the OSI OS, I would be interested to know the story of Elektuur/Elektor and how the old (and to be honest, rather crude) OS was being used in 1986. Bill Sudbrink From hirschopd at msn.com Sat Feb 28 19:55:56 2004 From: hirschopd at msn.com (Paul Hirsch) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:47 2005 Subject: 86/330 Problem(s) Message-ID: Joe R. Thanks, I will check it out. Paul >From: "Joe R." >Reply-To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic >Posts" >To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > >Subject: Re: 86/330 Problem(s) >Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 12:27:28 -0500 > >At 02:27 AM 2/28/04 +0000, you wrote: > >Joe, > >do you have part numbers on the booards you have? > >Paul Hirsch > > > Here is a link to a Multibus webpage that I've been working on. >. MOST of the cards >that I have are listed there along with descriptions, part numbers and >pictures. It's still a work in progress so there are some missing bits and >pieces and I still have a stack of cards to add to it. It seems like >everytime I turn over a rock around here I find more Multibus stuff :-) > > FWIW I gutted* four Intel 86/330s a couple of years ago so I have all >the >cards for them. > > *Before anyone complains about me gutting vintage systems I'd like to >point out that these had had the hard drives removed before I got them and >I didn't have any Sw or docs for them and that I spent several months >trying to track down the stuff before I gave up and stripped them. I posted >several requests on this list and didn't get a single reply. > > Joe > > > > > > > >>From: "Joe R." > >>Reply-To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic > >>Posts" > >>To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > >> > >>Subject: Re: 86/330 Problem(s) > >>Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 18:17:09 -0500 > >> > >>At 02:28 PM 2/27/04 -0800, you wrote: > >> >On Fri, 27 Feb 2004, Paul Hirsch wrote: > >> > > >> >> We have an 86/330 that will not boot. We are using the RMX 5.1 > >>Operating > >> >> System. Following power on we compete the SCT Test and begin >booting > >>and > >> >> get a "Divide overflow occured". We have replaced the 8086 >procrsser, > >>the > >> >> 8087 coprocessor and the memory boards. At this point we are out of > >>options > >> >> unless it is the cpu board (144548-003 Rev C). 1) if any one has >any > >>advice > >> >> I would appreciate it, or if anyone has a board or computer that >they > >>would > >> >> like to sell. > >> > > >> >Sounds like a software problem. > >> > > >> >What's an 86/330? > >> > >> Sounds like an Intel 86/330 computer (8086 CPU Multibus system). I >have > >>parts for them and I've already replied to him. > >> > >> Joe > >> > >> > > >> >-- > >> > > >> >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer > >>Festival > >> > >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>--- > >> >International Man of Intrigue and Danger > >>http://www.vintage.org > >> > > >> >[ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage > >>Computers > >> ] > >> >[ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at > >>http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > >> > > >> > > > > >_________________________________________________________________ > >Watch high-quality video with fast playback at MSN Video. Free! > >http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200365ave/direct/01/ > > > > _________________________________________________________________ Find and compare great deals on Broadband access at the MSN High-Speed Marketplace. http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200360ave/direct/01/ From hirschopd at msn.com Sat Feb 28 19:58:13 2004 From: hirschopd at msn.com (Paul Hirsch) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:47 2005 Subject: Priam 3450-10 Hard Drive Message-ID: Anyone out there have a Priam 3450-10 30MB Hard Drive? Paul Hirsch _________________________________________________________________ Dream of owning a home? Find out how in the First-time Home Buying Guide. http://special.msn.com/home/firsthome.armx From vcf at siconic.com Sat Feb 28 20:38:59 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:47 2005 Subject: VCF Gazette Volume 2 Number 2 In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20040228185952.042e1400@mail.ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 28 Feb 2004, Tom Uban wrote: > Nice Sellam! I'm glad that it was a big success. Thanks! > Was Chuck McManis's PDP5 running? I would have liked to see that, > along with much of the other displays... Unfortunately, no. I don't know if he has plans to make it working. I am pretty sure he does but the time to do so is another matter. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From kenziem at sympatico.ca Sat Feb 28 22:36:51 2004 From: kenziem at sympatico.ca (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:47 2005 Subject: Linux Box + DOS 3.2 box + (1)5.25 floppy drive (okidata 3305BU) = HELP!!!!!!!! In-Reply-To: <20040227042817.36116.qmail@web41704.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040227042817.36116.qmail@web41704.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200402282337.18104.kenziem@sympatico.ca> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Thursday 26 February 2004 23:28, Lyos Norezel wrote: > Hey y'all... I need some help. I recently acquired a Compaq Portable(ye > right... at 35LBS no one is crazy enough to carry this machine around) > II... with a hard drive and a 5.25 floppy disk drive. The hard drive > apparently has MSDOS 3.2 and some Novell application. When booted up it > first checks the memory then it checks active partions... then it starts > going in some kinda loop looking for a file server that isn't there. I > don't have any other 5.25 floppy drives so I am unable to create disks to > transfer files to this box. I was wondering if it was possible to connect > the floppy drive to my linux box and copy the files to the disk(s) from > there and retransfer the drive to the compaq to use. Problem is that the > Linux box is an RH9 platform on a PII (686) system. Would RH9 even have the > needed drivers for a drive this ancient? Can this be done or am I, for all > intensive purposes, screwed? Lyos Gemini Norezel mtools might let you read the disk if the bios/controller of your linux machine wil let you attach the floppy. I couldn't mount atari disk the other day but mcopy let me transfer the files. dd will let you copy the disk image back to a floppy - -- Ottawa, Canada Collector of vintage computers http://www.ncf.ca/~ba600 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFAQWx9LPrIaE/xBZARAlj2AJ9WXE3K4NzLnfA+6T14Gn3KZKNRkACgm4P0 iG4AOLg4eevh9fyjzoMfpWo= =qF3C -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Sat Feb 28 23:24:21 2004 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:47 2005 Subject: Bernoulli/Syquest carts available Message-ID: <86.6710e60.2d72d185@aol.com> I've more of these than anyone will need and they're all brand new. 3 packs of Bernoulli 5.25 44meg disks KAO 5.25 88meg syquest disks. The label inside says they are formatted for Macs but includes software for wintel machines also. $1 each plus whatever for shipping and they're yours. Just say how many you want. -- I am not willing to give up my privacy for the false promise of 'security' From transit at lerctr.org Sun Feb 29 08:49:43 2004 From: transit at lerctr.org (transit@lerctr.org) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:47 2005 Subject: OT: Santa Barbara In-Reply-To: <200402222259.i1MMxW7I081295@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <200402222259.i1MMxW7I081295@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <13094.66.75.64.115.1078066183.squirrel@squirrelmail.lerctr.org> > Yup, but we can still fight. I just found out it is against the Santa > Barbara city ordinance to park in your own driveway more than 48 hours > as they then consider it to be storage. These people are insane!!! > Did they ever pass that law requiring RV's to be registered with the rent control board (They were talking about it in 1986-7 or so, when I graduated from UCSB).... The political ad was rather funny: http://laradio.lerctr.org/rv/measureb.mp3 From auringer at tds.net Sun Feb 29 09:51:29 2004 From: auringer at tds.net (Jon Auringer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:47 2005 Subject: WordStar for NorthStar manual available Message-ID: <40420A81.3070009@tds.net> Hello, Anyone interested in an original manual for Wordstar on the NorthStar Horizon/Advantage? The sections are marked "First Issue: May 15, 1981". If there is no interest, it goes in the dumpster. Jon Jon Auringer auringer@tds.net From auringer at tds.net Sun Feb 29 11:21:02 2004 From: auringer at tds.net (Jon Auringer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:47 2005 Subject: WordStar for NorthStar manual available In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <40421F7E.9000701@tds.net> Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > Hi Jon. > > I'll take it. My address is: Sorry, someone else had a quicker trigger finger. The manual is spoken for. Jon From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Feb 29 11:12:58 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:47 2005 Subject: IDC (Re: Archive 5945C) In-Reply-To: from "Doc Shipley" at Feb 28, 4 00:59:19 am Message-ID: > > On Feb 27, 2004, at 11:03 PM, Tony Duell wrote: > >> Tony.... > >> > >>>>> I would suspect that ... it's the female part that wears out. > >>>>> the male part ... not likely to show much wear > >> > >> While this may be true, it is usually a bad experience when the male > >> part > >> gets severely bent or broken....... > > > > It's not _that_ hard to replace. The trick, of course, is to cut the > > male > > connector apart while it's still soldered to the PCB, and desolder it a > > bit at a time. > > Hopefully under heavy sedation? No, actually you want to be fully allert so you don't lift any traces on the PCB. It's not _that_ bad a job. I've had to do it a number of times, and I don't worry about it any more. -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Feb 29 11:14:53 2004 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:47 2005 Subject: HP Integral I/O cards Message-ID: Does anybody here have an HP Integral with the RS232, current loop, or GPIO cards in it? I realise I'm never going to find these cards for sale (at least not at a price I can afford), but I'd like to know what the chips on them were to see if it's possible to make some equivalent. So if you have those cards, could you tell me the numbers on the chips. -tony From auringer at tds.net Sun Feb 29 11:27:07 2004 From: auringer at tds.net (Jon Auringer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:47 2005 Subject: digital "test connectors" Message-ID: <404220EB.8070404@tds.net> Hello again, I have the three following digital test connectors. All in good condition. I really have no idea what they are worth and really don't want to take the time/effort to ebay/VCM them. Any offers? H3271 Staggered Turnaround Test Connector (DZ11[-x]) H325 Line loopback test connector(DMV11, DMP11, DMR11, DPV11, DUP11, DV11, DZ11, DZV11) H315B MODEM TEST CONN Jon Jon Auringer auringer@tds.net From curt at atarimuseum.com Sun Feb 29 11:56:13 2004 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:47 2005 Subject: WTD: 486DX System References: <20040227042817.36116.qmail@web41704.mail.yahoo.com> <200402282337.18104.kenziem@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <000d01c3feed$51fe2420$1a02a8c0@starship1> Hi, Looking for a good 486DX System, INTEL Processor, has to have at least 5 ISA slots, max'ed out memory, and at least a 3.5" 1.44mb floppy drive. Will also take a slower 66-100MHZ original Pentium system. Need this specifically for a special set of boards that were designed to work with this specific range of H/W The set of boards I have, many are full length so most likely a large desktop case or a Tower will be needed. Email me off-list: curt@atarimuseum.com if you have one to sell Curt From sastevens at earthlink.net Sun Feb 29 12:44:27 2004 From: sastevens at earthlink.net (Scott Stevens) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:47 2005 Subject: Linux Box + DOS 3.2 box + (1)5.25 floppy drive (okidata 3305BU) = HELP!!!!!!!! In-Reply-To: <200402291800.i1TI03xL020509@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040229134018.01c57d60@pop.earthlink.net> At 12:00 PM 2/29/2004 -0600, you wrote: >Hey, to the person that buys a laptop without a keyboard or screen for >$75, I've got an old 5.25" floppy disk drive that doesn't read or write >for $25. Well, I can top what everybody is offering here. I have a laptop that has no keyboard (pulled and put on another laptop.) It also has a cracked LCD, which actually still 'works' though the way it switches from positive to negative image on sections of the lcd display is kinda surreal. Also, it only has 4 megs of RAM, it has no hard drive, and it's a 486. But I remember when I couldn't afford a 486 so maybe it's still a good deal. My 8088 Zenith Supersport and my IBM PC Convertable (one with ALL 640K of RAM, which is a rarity) are the better choices, collection-wise. My Model 100's rule, of course. -------------- next part -------------- --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.595 / Virus Database: 378 - Release Date: 2/25/2004 From auringer at tds.net Sun Feb 29 12:53:12 2004 From: auringer at tds.net (Jon Auringer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:47 2005 Subject: Other fun stuff... Message-ID: <40423518.3070607@tds.net> Howdy, I am getting more cleaning done than expected. I found the following items that I wish to find new homes for. (3) Three hard plastic "Library Cases" for 8" floppy disks. Two are plain black, and the third is tan with a BASF label on it. Inside I found an 8" floppy of Sorcim SuperCalc 2 version 1 for the IBM 3740 / CPM 2.x / Intel 8080. The copyright date is 1983. Also in the box, Computronics "Business Pac 100" CP/M version on two 8" floppies. Less interesting are 9 8" floppies with a variety of insurance company proposal programs on them. I also have a half-full box of unused OEI brand (M5081) punch cards. Any offers? Jon Jon Auringer auringer@tds.net From rich_nospam at sias.us Sun Feb 29 06:11:16 2004 From: rich_nospam at sias.us (Rich Sias) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:47 2005 Subject: Priam 3450-10 Hard Drive In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: ** Reply to message from "Paul Hirsch" on Sun, 29 Feb 2004 01:58:13 +0000 > Anyone out there have a Priam 3450-10 30MB Hard Drive? > Paul Hirsch Well, I have sereral Priams, but I think I had them formatted as 80 something and 140 something in RLL mode. I think that made them a 60 and a 90 ? Rich From rich_nospam at sias.us Sun Feb 29 08:18:25 2004 From: rich_nospam at sias.us (Rich Sias) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:47 2005 Subject: Zortech C++ compiler In-Reply-To: <6.0.1.1.2.20040226160039.068a70a0@pc> References: <6.0.1.1.2.20040226160039.068a70a0@pc> Message-ID: ** Reply to message from John Foust on Thu, 26 Feb 2004 16:01:31 -0600 > I have the MS-DOS Lattice C cross-compiler that output Amiga > executables, too. I even used it at first, as a single-floppy > Amiga is pretty useless for compiles, and two floppies weren't > much better. and more OS's vesions > I have an Apple ][ version (which produces 6502 code naturally) and I may > have a PC version. I'm pretty sure I also have an Amiga version. Wow I have a copy of Zoratech C++ OS/2 version. Must be a newer one because it is Symatec corp. Version 3.1 I doubt if you wanted that one though. Probably don't have OS/2. Rich From rich_nospam at sias.us Sun Feb 29 08:21:26 2004 From: rich_nospam at sias.us (Rich Sias) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:47 2005 Subject: prices... In-Reply-To: <00f001c3fc06$830e1f50$7a00a8c0@themillers> References: <1077728095.15653.157.camel@weka.localdomain> <00f001c3fc06$830e1f50$7a00a8c0@themillers> Message-ID: ** Reply to message from on Wed, 25 Feb 2004 19:18:56 -0600 > Are there certain machines you are trying to appraise? I've been saving > eBay auction results (in a single file archived html format) for machines > that I am interested in. I'm up to about 1100 auctions starting in April > 2002. Let me know if you would like me to dig into it for you. > > Nick I/d be interested in IMSAI 8080, Perkin Elmer Hemm can't find model its a 5Meg fixed and 5meg removable hard drive 150 lbs. 19" rack mount. Rich From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Sun Feb 29 16:17:04 2004 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:47 2005 Subject: Kaypro systems available - Bay Area pickup only Message-ID: <027201c3ff11$c32514a0$947ba8c0@p933> A friend asked me to post this link: http://www.codesmart.com/stuff/kaypros.html The short of it is a Kaypro II and a Kaypro 4 with a Kaypro Printer are available in the Bay Area. Pickup only. Other then knowing the seller, I have nothing to do with these items. Best of luck! Erik Klein www.vintage-computer.com www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum The Vintage Computer Forum From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sun Feb 29 16:03:53 2004 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:47 2005 Subject: HP Integral I/O cards In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040229170353.0095cd50@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I have one with the HP 82919A option 001 Serial card. It's a RS-232 card combined with a SE ROM card. I also have a HP-IL card here and I think I may also a standard RS-232 card somewhere. BTW I also have the service manuals for the IO cards and for the IPC. The IO card SM doesn't have much detail. Mostly they just tells how to run the diagnostics tests but in a few places it gives ROM addresses and it has descriptions of all the IO cards. Joe At 05:14 PM 2/29/04 +0000, you wrote: >Does anybody here have an HP Integral with the RS232, current loop, or >GPIO cards in it? > >I realise I'm never going to find these cards for sale (at least not at a >price I can afford), but I'd like to know what the chips on them were to >see if it's possible to make some equivalent. > >So if you have those cards, could you tell me the numbers on the chips. > >-tony > > From vcf at siconic.com Sun Feb 29 19:06:13 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:47 2005 Subject: Kaypro Computer available near New Haven, Connecticut Message-ID: See below. Reply-to: higbe25@comcast.net ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 19:55:36 -0500 From: Debbie Ferrucci To: Vintage Computer Festival Subject: RE: Kaypro Computer Connecticut, outside of New Haven. Let me know. Mike Ferrucci -----Original Message----- From: Vintage Computer Festival [mailto:vcf@siconic.com] Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2004 5:36 PM To: Debbie Ferrucci Subject: Re: Kaypro Computer On Sat, 21 Feb 2004, Debbie Ferrucci wrote: > I've got an old Kaypro Computer that I'm going to throw away. Do you know > anybody who would want it? I'll send it to anybody who will pay the > postage. I used it until the day my PC arrived, at which point the Kaypro > screen started to roll and I've never touched it again. I think I have all > the manuals and software disks as well. Hi Mike. I'd sure like to find someone who will want it. Can you tell me where you are? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Sun Feb 29 19:26:41 2004 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:47 2005 Subject: Nice 19" rackmount chassis with integrated VGA CRT Message-ID: I'm wanting to unload this fine 19" rackmount cabinet with a built in 9" VGA (SVGA?) CRT. Unfortunately, something is definitely wrong with the CRT. It runs very hot, even when not turned on. There might be a short somewhere (it might even be on the yolk as there are some lead wires from the yolk touching itself where it doesn't look like it should). I was smelling some magic smoke earlier, so something is surely amiss. I wish I knew what or I'd fix it. Unfortunately, I just don't have the time. But it's a nice chassis and I'd hate to junk it. It includes a P-90 motherboard with 3 ISA and 3 PCI slots. I'll max out the RAM. It has a 540MB hard drive as well. http://www.siconic.com/computers/crt-chassis-1.JPG http://www.siconic.com/computers/crt-chassis-2.JPG Does anyone want to make an offer? I'm not expecting much. You could probably repair or replace the CRT with enough ambition. Would make for a very nice compact rack server. Shipping would be 45 pounds from ZIP code 94550. Figure about $35 shipping worst case. E-mail me if interested. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From esharpe at uswest.net Sun Feb 29 20:37:39 2004 From: esharpe at uswest.net (ed sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:47 2005 Subject: PDP-11/20, was Re: ebay question References: Message-ID: <011b01c3ff36$2a00fad0$c2956d44@SONYDIGITALED> I remember seeing leds in 1970 in the summer.... it was amazing how long they would shine and not totally kill the battery! Thanks Ed Sharpe archivist for SMECC Please check our web site at http://www.smecc.org to see other engineering fields, communications and computation stuff we buy, and by all means when in Arizona drop in and see us. address: coury house / smecc 5802 w palmaire ave glendale az 85301 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ulf Andersson" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Friday, February 27, 2004 8:56 AM Subject: SV: PDP-11/20, was Re: ebay question > >From the Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light-emitting_diode > > A light-emitting diode (LED) is a semiconductor device that emits incoherent > monochromatic light when electrically biased in the forward direction. This > effect is a form of electroluminescence. The color depends on the > semiconducting > material used, and can be near-ultraviolet, visible or infrared. Nick Holonyak > Jr. > (1928 - ) developed the first practical visible-spectrum LED in 1962. > > This would probably conclude the speculations on earliest date for LEDs to > appear on front panels. This has no impact on the history of DEC practise > though... > If anybody has more precise facts on commercial availability, please come > forward > and presents your facts. > > /Ulf Andersson > > > -----It was written----- > > > > > Remember that the 11/20 came out in 1971. I'm not sure LEDs even > > > existed that long ago, and they certainly weren't common as lamp > > > > My HP9810 calculator has LED displays and a row of 5mm LEDs along the top > > of the keyboard for status indication (program/run mode, etc). Dunno the > > exact date, but it's around 1972 I think. > > > > etc etc, ad infinitum... > > > From esharpe at uswest.net Sun Feb 29 20:51:49 2004 From: esharpe at uswest.net (ed sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:47 2005 Subject: Nice 19" rackmount chassis with integrated VGA CRT References: Message-ID: <014701c3ff38$24b2e0a0$c2956d44@SONYDIGITALED> we have a rack somewhat like this but no monitor or provision for it. we put a motherboard with an amd k6 450 mhz processor in it and 2 80 meg drives raid. made a nice rack server! ed ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vintage Computer Festival" To: "Classic Computers Mailing List" ; "Classic Computers Mailing List" Sent: Sunday, February 29, 2004 6:26 PM Subject: Nice 19" rackmount chassis with integrated VGA CRT > > I'm wanting to unload this fine 19" rackmount cabinet with a built in 9" > VGA (SVGA?) CRT. Unfortunately, something is definitely wrong with the > CRT. It runs very hot, even when not turned on. There might be a short > somewhere (it might even be on the yolk as there are some lead wires from > the yolk touching itself where it doesn't look like it should). I was > smelling some magic smoke earlier, so something is surely amiss. I wish I > knew what or I'd fix it. Unfortunately, I just don't have the time. But > it's a nice chassis and I'd hate to junk it. It includes a P-90 > motherboard with 3 ISA and 3 PCI slots. I'll max out the RAM. It has a > 540MB hard drive as well. > > http://www.siconic.com/computers/crt-chassis-1.JPG > http://www.siconic.com/computers/crt-chassis-2.JPG > > Does anyone want to make an offer? I'm not expecting much. You could > probably repair or replace the CRT with enough ambition. Would make for a > very nice compact rack server. > > Shipping would be 45 pounds from ZIP code 94550. Figure about $35 > shipping worst case. > > E-mail me if interested. > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage mputers ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > > > > From esharpe at uswest.net Sun Feb 29 20:53:36 2004 From: esharpe at uswest.net (ed sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:47 2005 Subject: Nice 19" rackmount chassis with integrated VGA CRT References: Message-ID: <015d01c3ff38$64777e30$c2956d44@SONYDIGITALED> correct my last message to say 2 80 gig not 89 meg drives ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vintage Computer Festival" To: "Classic Computers Mailing List" ; "Classic Computers Mailing List" Sent: Sunday, February 29, 2004 6:26 PM Subject: Nice 19" rackmount chassis with integrated VGA CRT > > I'm wanting to unload this fine 19" rackmount cabinet with a built in 9" > VGA (SVGA?) CRT. Unfortunately, something is definitely wrong with the > CRT. It runs very hot, even when not turned on. There might be a short > somewhere (it might even be on the yolk as there are some lead wires from > the yolk touching itself where it doesn't look like it should). I was > smelling some magic smoke earlier, so something is surely amiss. I wish I > knew what or I'd fix it. Unfortunately, I just don't have the time. But > it's a nice chassis and I'd hate to junk it. It includes a P-90 > motherboard with 3 ISA and 3 PCI slots. I'll max out the RAM. It has a > 540MB hard drive as well. > > http://www.siconic.com/computers/crt-chassis-1.JPG > http://www.siconic.com/computers/crt-chassis-2.JPG > > Does anyone want to make an offer? I'm not expecting much. You could > probably repair or replace the CRT with enough ambition. Would make for a > very nice compact rack server. > > Shipping would be 45 pounds from ZIP code 94550. Figure about $35 > shipping worst case. > > E-mail me if interested. > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage mputers ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > > > > From lyosnorezel at yahoo.com Sun Feb 29 23:52:17 2004 From: lyosnorezel at yahoo.com (Lyos Norezel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:47 2005 Subject: Linux Box + DOS 3.2 box + (1)5.25 floppy drive (okidata 3305BU) = HELP!!!!!!!! In-Reply-To: <20040227120118.B26745@newshell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <20040301055217.30953.qmail@web41709.mail.yahoo.com> Fred Cisin wrote: The II is much lighter and more portable than the original Compaq "Portable" (aka "luggable") or the "Portable 286", which many of us WERE/ARE crazy enough to lug around. LOL... Somehow this doesn't supprise me... also Sellam's website "vintage.org" lists the Compaq Portable II as a 286 machine... but the one I have is a 386 machine. Maybe this machine was upgraded by the user? Also this same machine has 1180 (last digit may or may not be right) KB of ram. Amazing... I pulled it's memory board to look at it and it only has half the slots filled with memory chips... I'll have to see if I have any equivelant chips. If the loop is during AUTOEXEC.BAT, then Ctrl-Break or Ctrl-C will work (the ap presumably uses Int 21h fn 0 - 0Ch functions) to stop the attempt and get you to the prompt. If the loop is during CONFIG.SYS, then the keyboard is not likely to be any help in stopping it. LATER versions of DOS added capability of bypassing CONFIG.SYS through keyboard intervention. I managed to bypass whatever was running by using CTRL-screen lock (break) combo... the only problem is is that it immediately ran format.com and refused to let me stop it. So now I have a paperweight instead of a computer. LOL... it figures. The Compaq Portable II will always attempt to boot from floppy before booting from the hard drive. THEREFORE, what you need is a boot disk. Any version of DOS from 2.00 through 7.xx, on either 360K or 1.2M (the USUAL floppy on a Portable II is a 1.2M) Or you could open it up and install a 3.5" drive. The Compaq uses Torx head screws throughout. If you don't have Torx bits, then LEAVE IT ON THE SHELF UNTIL YOU DO! (I repaired a Portable on a picnic table in Hawaii using Vise-Grips 5WR, and do NOT recommend it!) Too late... I used needle nose and a couple different hex type drivers... and one mini flat-head (glasses repair type)... and a phillips. Worked pretty well... except for one screw that refused to budge... ended up drilling the damn thing. DOS 3.20 supports 720K, but if you "upgrade" to 3.30, then you could use a 1.4M. If you go that route, use COMPAQ 3.31, or COMPAQ 5.00 (MODE.COM is DIFFERENT from the MODE.COM on any other "brand" of MS-DOS!) 3.31 or higher will also permit you to use hard drives larger than 32M. If you ignore this advice and install a non-Compaq DOS on it, at least save a copy of your MODE.COM. Where would I find Compaq Dos? Absolutely. The Compaq uses Torx head screws throughout. If you don't have Torx bits, then LEAVE IT ON THE SHELF UNTIL YOU DO! Again...oops... LOL I do not consider a 1.2M drive to be "ancient". They didn't even come out until 1983. LOL... by today's standards even yesterday's PC is "ancient" > Can this be done or am I, for all intensive purposes, screwed? Yes. What the heck's that supposed to mean? --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Get better spam protection with Yahoo! Mail From lyosnorezel at yahoo.com Sun Feb 29 23:54:49 2004 From: lyosnorezel at yahoo.com (Lyos Norezel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:47 2005 Subject: Linux Box + DOS 3.2 box + (1)5.25 floppy drive (okidata 3305BU) = HELP!!!!!!!! In-Reply-To: <20040227123456.U26745@newshell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <20040301055449.75807.qmail@web41705.mail.yahoo.com> Does the bios of the Compaq support 3.5" drives? If it does then I'll start jerryrigging the power wires. The IDC cable should work as is. Lyos Gemini Norezel Fred Cisin wrote: Add a 3.5" drive to the Compaq. The Portable and Portable 286 have enough room above the boards to cut a hole to mount a 3.5" drive! --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Get better spam protection with Yahoo! Mail From lyosnorezel at yahoo.com Sun Feb 29 23:59:37 2004 From: lyosnorezel at yahoo.com (Lyos Norezel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:47 2005 Subject: Apple IIc Message-ID: <20040301055937.5980.qmail@web41713.mail.yahoo.com> Hey ya'll I just located an old Apple IIc and was trying to figure out it's power supply... anyone know where I can find pinouts for this computer's power supply port? It's the male side of a 7 pin plug. Thanks. Lyos Gemini Norezel P.S.- I'll be getting a Commodore 64 (fully loaded/equipped) and a TRS(trash)-80 in the next coupla days... oh boy, oh boy!!!!!!!!!!!!! I love getting "new" toys. --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Get better spam protection with Yahoo! Mail From tim at spiritsphere.com Sun Feb 29 22:09:41 2004 From: tim at spiritsphere.com (Neko) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:47 2005 Subject: Strange Old Disk Message-ID: <000e01c3ff43$05d3e390$0201a8c0@neko2> I picked this disk up the other day knowing almost nothing about mainframe storage methods. I've spent hours upon hours trying to figure out what exactly this is but the closest thing I can get to it is an RL02 removable cartridge disk, but it's not (I think)! I don't see how the same drive could read these since the holes are so much different, but it's the same general idea. I'm not sending attachments, I put them on a site for you to look at, the url is http://www.spiritsphere.com/14inchdisk.html , any and all information you could give me about this disk would be greatly appreciated, I'm still in the dark about it, and have found very little reference at all to CDC ever making a cartridge like this. Thank you! Best Wishes :) Tim From hirschopd at msn.com Sun Feb 29 21:03:00 2004 From: hirschopd at msn.com (paul hirsch) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:43:49 2005 Subject: Priam 3450-10 Hard Drive References: Message-ID: Rich, I am told that we can reformat back to the 3450-10. Where are you located and what do you want for the unit. Paul ----- Original Message ----- From: Rich Sias To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Sent: Sunday, February 29, 2004 6:11 AM Subject: Re: Priam 3450-10 Hard Drive ** Reply to message from "Paul Hirsch" on Sun, 29 Feb 2004 01:58:13 +0000 > Anyone out there have a Priam 3450-10 30MB Hard Drive? > Paul Hirsch Well, I have sereral Priams, but I think I had them formatted as 80 something and 140 something in RLL mode. I think that made them a 60 and a 90 ? Rich