From wmsmith at earthlink.net Wed Oct 1 02:19:24 2003 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:12 2005 Subject: Socal Swapmeets In-Reply-To: <3F79B478.EA0D9AD5@msm.umr.edu> Message-ID: <001801c387ec$5a9c9a30$7e39cd18@WaynePC> > > > So what did I see, good stuff first, ACP had a pair > > > of fresh from the shed > > > Imsai something 40 boxes with like 9 in CRTS on the > > > front, and dual 8" > > > floppy box and a Selectric. > > > > > which the owner wanted $1000 for most of the day, > then offered them for $500. > > Anyone buy these? > > Jim > And here I'd thought I'd missed out on something. From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Wed Oct 1 03:34:03 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:13 2005 Subject: More Stuff available In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3F7AAD9B.24659.652B3E5C@localhost> > > - an Apple II Technical Manual > > an unsoldered, virgin AppleII clone board, once sold by > > Eijlander Electronice in Ede, The Netherlands. I never > > got around to assembling it, so its still virgin. > Kiddies... read that AGAIN. The *board* is virgin. I am *not* > offering *a* virgin. Duh! :) Just so yall know... > Fred (who spent WAY too much time in his dirty basement today) Hey, I'd take both ... even from the basement :) Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 5.0 am 01./02. Mai 2004 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From waltje at pdp11.nl Wed Oct 1 05:35:32 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:13 2005 Subject: Digital Group ? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Sellam wrote: > Nothing other than it was one of the very earliest of the homebrew kit > computer companies, and they made fairly wacky stuff, like the Phideck and > multiple processor systems. Yep, so I have learned since posting that. I got my stuff from an uncle, in late 1983 or so. He had a *very* ugly and badly assembled kit (got it from a friend, I believe) and after fiddling with it for a while, I decided I much more liked the AppleII (at school) and the VIC-20 (at home) :) > It's too bad you tossed your hardware :( Yeah... when I moved, we suddenly bumped into that stuff, and since the container was about full, we decided to not move (read: toss) it. We all make our stupid mistakes at some point.. my other mistake was to let go of my 11/10 (school dumped it *for* me, grrr) and my 11/40's and 11/34's. grrgrr. I'd kill for a working 11/10 *sniff* --f -- Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist Visit the VAXlab Project at http://www.pdp11.nl/VAXlab/ Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Sunnyvale, CA, USA From waltje at pdp11.nl Wed Oct 1 05:38:17 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:13 2005 Subject: [taken] Re: AVAIL: stuff In-Reply-To: Message-ID: All, The MSX stuff has been claimed. Same for the DigGroup docs, and the Apple stuff. Cheers, Fred -- Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist Visit the VAXlab Project at http://www.pdp11.nl/VAXlab/ Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Sunnyvale, CA, USA From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Wed Oct 1 08:47:49 2003 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:13 2005 Subject: Unwaged Message-ID: As Tony so interestingly put it, I have become "unwaged." The company I worked for -- J.D. Edwards -- was aquired by PeopleSoft. Part of the merger's "synergy" is a staff reduction :( . Anyway, I have a few odds and ends (OK, junk) at the office that I do not want to move. Free for postage from Chicago. Do not reply to the list, as it comes to my work email (soon to go away), but rather to r_a_feldman@hotmail.com. 1. Toshiba T3100e/40. Power light comes on, but goes no farther. At least the screen is not cracked. 2. Kenitec laptop (XT or AT??), probably non-functional. 3. HP Portable Vectra CS Model 20. Unknown condition (and heavy). 4. Apple IIGS (case, motherboard, Power supply). 5. Epson "Mars board" (an 80C88 motherboard) w/o CPU. Unknown condition. 6. Adaptec Microchannel card, AHA-1640. 7. Set of AT&T 6300 Plus (80386) manuals. Has diagnostic disks, IIRC, but not MS-DOS disks). 8. Borland C++ V3.1 manual set. 9. Borland C++ V4.5, unopened package of 28 floppy disks (no docs). Bob From vcf at siconic.com Wed Oct 1 10:06:12 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:14 2005 Subject: Digital Group ? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 1 Oct 2003, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > I'd kill for a working 11/10 *sniff* I have someone in mind...let's talk ;) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From kth at srv.net Wed Oct 1 11:16:13 2003 From: kth at srv.net (Kevin Handy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:14 2005 Subject: PDP 11/73 SLU In-Reply-To: <200310010220.h912Kq9E019657@onyx.spiritone.com> References: <200310010220.h912Kq9E019657@onyx.spiritone.com> Message-ID: <3F7AFDCD.4050101@srv.net> Zane H. Healy wrote: >>I really have no need for all the custom stuff and would just as soon >>remove it as use it. I do have a spare DHV11 here that I could put in >>the box, but I do not know if the DHV11 can be used as a standard serial >>console. >> >> > >I think what you really need is a DLV11J. I used one for several years as >my console, and a WQESD/04 as my bootroms. > > > I think that the normal console for an 11/73 is built into the CPU card. Should have a (berg?) connector (or is it two) on the edge of the CPU card where the console port plugs in. I'm not sure if the bootstrap will even look for another console port. If they have this strange board as their console, they may be using different boot roms, you you might have to swap them too. The CPU card should be almost identical to an 11/83 system. Main difference is the speed of the clock, iirc. From dundas at caltech.edu Wed Oct 1 10:38:01 2003 From: dundas at caltech.edu (John A. Dundas III) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:14 2005 Subject: PDP 11/73 SLU In-Reply-To: <1064967860.3654.8.camel@unix> Message-ID: >I really have no need for all the custom stuff and would just as soon >remove it as use it. I do have a spare DHV11 here that I could put in >the box, but I do not know if the DHV11 can be used as a standard serial >console. Nope, the DHV cannot be used as a console interface. If you have a M8192 (same setup I have) then your choices are roughly: DLV11 (I believe either -E or -F will work; I am currently using M8028), DLV11-J (M8043, a 4 port interface that uses special connectors; I've used this also), and there may be a very few others. You need something that responds to the standard console CSR/vector. Don't throw the DHV out as that will still be useful for other things, just not helpful as a console. John --------------------------------------------------------- John A. Dundas III Director, Information Technology Services Infrastructure, Caltech Mail Code: 014-81, Pasadena, CA 91125-8100 Phone: 626.395.3392 FAX: 626.449.6973 From wonko at 4amlunch.net Wed Oct 1 10:43:28 2003 From: wonko at 4amlunch.net (Brian Hechinger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:14 2005 Subject: PDP 11/73 SLU In-Reply-To: <3F7AFDCD.4050101@srv.net>; from kth@srv.net on Wed, Oct 01, 2003 at 10:16:13AM -0600 References: <200310010220.h912Kq9E019657@onyx.spiritone.com> <3F7AFDCD.4050101@srv.net> Message-ID: <20031001114328.M18098@zill.net> On Wed, Oct 01, 2003 at 10:16:13AM -0600, Kevin Handy wrote: > > The CPU card should be almost identical to an 11/83 system. > Main difference is the speed of the clock, iirc. uhm, i thought a /73 was a dual width card and didn't have any serial or anything on it. am i confused? -brian -- "It's like a Koala bear crapped a rainbow in my brain." -- Captain Murphy - Sealab 2021 - From esharpe at uswest.net Wed Oct 1 12:27:39 2003 From: esharpe at uswest.net (Ed Sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:14 2005 Subject: Hayes S100 modem (80-103A) commands References: <000001c387bb$6c90aa00$1f6fa8c0@eths.k12.il.us> Message-ID: <006c01c38841$50937a40$4291a8c0@aoldsl.net> Thanks Jack! Thanks! Ed Sharpe Archivist for SMECC See the Southwest Museum of Engineering, Communications and Computation online at: http://www.smecc.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jack Rubin" To: "Classic Computer List" Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2003 6:29 PM Subject: Hayes S100 modem (80-103A) commands > Sorry - I wasn't paying too much attention to this thread, but I have > the manual for the Hayes S100 modem (80-103A) which includes a short > modem control program written in 1977 by Dale Heatherington (the > co-founder of DC Hayes; guess who was the marketing guy and who was the > engineer!). Control was by bit-setting a couple of control bytes to > handle bit (baud) rate (high/low - typically 300/110 bps, but low rate > could also be set to 75 or 134.5 bps). Other bits set transmit enable > (on/off), mode select (answer/originate), break, self-test, ring > indicator, and off hook. > > The manual includes a chapter on "Applications". Section 5.5 > Telecommuting is reproduced here: "The energy situation being what it > is, more and more people are seriously considering alternatives to > commuting. If your job consists mostly of slaving over a hot computer > terminal, the 80-103A may offer an economical way for your job to come > to you instead of the other way around. Of course you would want to make > an occasional trip to the office for meetings, but think how much pain > and energy you could save. You might even be able to move to that > beautiful valley 'way up there in the mountains..." > > Of course the hot setup was the PMMI modem which could be overclocked to > 450 baud, but Don Brown died in the late '70s (?) and the company > disappeared. > > But what the world was really waiting for was a good 1200 baud modem... > > Jack Rubin > USRobotics 1984-95 > > > From gehrich at tampabay.rr.com Wed Oct 1 11:52:16 2003 From: gehrich at tampabay.rr.com (Gene Ehrich) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:14 2005 Subject: Lotus 1-2-3 v. 3.1 (DOS) copy protection ??? Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20031001124359.00bd0b18@popmail.voicenet.com> Does anybody know or remember Are 5-1/4" original diskettes for Lotus 1-2-3 v. 3.1 (DOS) copy protected in such a way as to prevent the diskettes from being copied to produce usable 3.5" diskettes or a CD? I remember that the earliest versions of Lotus 1-2-3 required the diskette in the floppy drive as a "key" for the program to start-up. I'm not sure what measures were taken for version 3.1. From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Oct 1 12:04:09 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:14 2005 Subject: PDP 11/73 SLU In-Reply-To: <3F7AFDCD.4050101@srv.net> References: <200310010220.h912Kq9E019657@onyx.spiritone.com> <3F7AFDCD.4050101@srv.net> Message-ID: >I think that the normal console for an 11/73 is built into the >CPU card. Should have a (berg?) connector (or is it two) on the >edge of the CPU card where the console port plugs in. >I'm not sure if the bootstrap will even look for another console >port. If you have a quad-height card this is true, and the ports on the board are DLV11 compatible. It also has a bootstrap. If you have have a dual-height, you don't have a console port or a bootstrap. Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From jwest at classiccmp.org Wed Oct 1 12:32:05 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:14 2005 Subject: TI 990 minicomputer Message-ID: <003201c38841$ee950060$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Just obtained a complete TI 990/10A system including several period TI terminals, TI 810 printer, cpu, CDC 94xx drive, and some media. Most importantly, a virgin OS install pack and complete manuals/docs. Not sure if it was DNOS or DX10 though. Anyone in need of copies of anything? >From what I understand, one could get an optional programmers front panel for the TI990/10A, I would love to get one of those if anyone has one spare. Jay West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Oct 1 12:58:20 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:14 2005 Subject: Lotus 1-2-3 v. 3.1 (DOS) copy protection ??? In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20031001124359.00bd0b18@popmail.voicenet.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031001135820.007c84e0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> No it's not copy protected. V 3.1 was after Lotus lost their bid on a LARGE US Government contract due to copy protection and they finally got smart and removed the protection. I have a complete package of V 3.1 that I've never installed. I looked through the docs and they say to backup the disk using "Copy a:*.*" and the tutorial doesn't tell you to insert a floppy disk when starting 123 so it doesn't use a key disk either. I have full sets of both 5 1/4 and 3 1/2 disks if you have any problems making a copy. FWIW I'm pretty sure that version 1.xx were not protected. V 2.x were protected and all versions after that were not protected. Joe At 12:52 PM 10/1/03 -0400, you wrote: >Does anybody know or remember > >Are 5-1/4" original diskettes for Lotus 1-2-3 v. 3.1 (DOS) copy protected >in such a way as to prevent the diskettes from being copied to produce usable >3.5" diskettes or a CD? I remember that the earliest versions of Lotus >1-2-3 required the diskette in the floppy drive as a "key" for the program >to start-up. I'm not sure what measures were taken for version 3.1. > > From dmabry at mich.com Wed Oct 1 13:10:26 2003 From: dmabry at mich.com (Dave Mabry) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:14 2005 Subject: Lotus 1-2-3 v. 3.1 (DOS) copy protection ??? In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20031001124359.00bd0b18@popmail.voicenet.com> References: <5.2.0.9.2.20031001124359.00bd0b18@popmail.voicenet.com> Message-ID: <3F7B1892.7070102@mich.com> It's been a while, so I may not be remembering this correctly. What I do remember was that the copy protection was such that Lotus 123 had to be installed onto a hard drive. At install time the program would do some characterization of the hard drive (maybe the computer, too) so that at run time it could tell if it was running from the hard drive it was installed on. At install time, if a successful install, it would decrement a counter on the floppy disk (which itself had some trick tracks on it). Seems like it gave you two installs, so the counter started at 2. Now, to your question...I remember a way to hack the executable files so that the part of the code that checked to see if it was running from the hard drive it was installed on was removed. At that point you could just copy the program as if it were normal, no protection files. The part I'm not sure about is whether this was version 2 or version 3. I think I've described version 3. Hope this helps some. Gene Ehrich wrote: > Does anybody know or remember > > Are 5-1/4" original diskettes for Lotus 1-2-3 v. 3.1 (DOS) copy protected > in such a way as to prevent the diskettes from being copied to produce > usable > 3.5" diskettes or a CD? I remember that the earliest versions of Lotus > 1-2-3 required the diskette in the floppy drive as a "key" for the program > to start-up. I'm not sure what measures were taken for version 3.1. > > . > -- Dave Mabry dmabry@mich.com Dossin Museum Underwater Research Team From dmabry at mich.com Wed Oct 1 13:19:44 2003 From: dmabry at mich.com (Dave Mabry) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:14 2005 Subject: Lotus 1-2-3 v. 3.1 (DOS) copy protection ??? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20031001135820.007c84e0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20031001135820.007c84e0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3F7B1AC0.6030802@mich.com> Ok, Joe is, no doubt, correct on this. My recollection must have been for V2.x. Joe wrote: > No it's not copy protected. V 3.1 was after Lotus lost their bid on a > LARGE US Government contract due to copy protection and they finally got > smart and removed the protection. I have a complete package of V 3.1 that > I've never installed. I looked through the docs and they say to backup the > disk using "Copy a:*.*" and the tutorial doesn't tell you to insert a > floppy disk when starting 123 so it doesn't use a key disk either. > > I have full sets of both 5 1/4 and 3 1/2 disks if you have any problems > making a copy. > > FWIW I'm pretty sure that version 1.xx were not protected. V 2.x were > protected and all versions after that were not protected. > > Joe > > > At 12:52 PM 10/1/03 -0400, you wrote: > >>Does anybody know or remember >> >>Are 5-1/4" original diskettes for Lotus 1-2-3 v. 3.1 (DOS) copy protected >>in such a way as to prevent the diskettes from being copied to produce usable >>3.5" diskettes or a CD? I remember that the earliest versions of Lotus >>1-2-3 required the diskette in the floppy drive as a "key" for the program >>to start-up. I'm not sure what measures were taken for version 3.1. >> >> > > > . > -- Dave Mabry dmabry@mich.com Dossin Museum Underwater Research Team From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Oct 1 13:34:14 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:14 2005 Subject: Lotus 1-2-3 v. 3.1 (DOS) copy protection ??? In-Reply-To: <3F7B1892.7070102@mich.com> References: <5.2.0.9.2.20031001124359.00bd0b18@popmail.voicenet.com> <5.2.0.9.2.20031001124359.00bd0b18@popmail.voicenet.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031001143414.007c8100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 02:10 PM 10/1/03 -0400, you wrote: >It's been a while, so I may not be remembering this correctly. What I >do remember was that the copy protection was such that Lotus 123 had to >be installed onto a hard drive. At install time the program would do >some characterization of the hard drive (maybe the computer, too) so >that at run time it could tell if it was running from the hard drive it >was installed on. At install time, if a successful install, it would >decrement a counter on the floppy disk (which itself had some trick >tracks on it). Seems like it gave you two installs, so the counter >started at 2. I remember that but I don't remember which version had it. The books for V3.1 don't say anything about it but that certainly doesn't mean that it doesn't have it! Joe From alberto at a2sistemi.it Wed Oct 1 13:55:46 2003 From: alberto at a2sistemi.it (Alberto Rubinelli - A2 Sistemi) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:14 2005 Subject: TI 990 minicomputer In-Reply-To: <003201c38841$ee950060$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: > Just obtained a complete TI 990/10A system including several period TI > terminals, TI 810 printer, cpu, CDC 94xx drive, and some media. Most > importantly, a virgin OS install pack and complete manuals/docs. > Not sure if > it was DNOS or DX10 though. > > Anyone in need of copies of anything? I have a 990 without operating system, this is a wonderful new :) It' difficult make a copy ? Thanks ------------------------------------------------------ Alberto Rubinelli Mail : alberto@a2sistemi.it A2 SISTEMI Web : www.a2sistemi.it Via Costantino Perazzi 22 Tel 0321 640149 28100 NOVARA (NO) - ITALY Fax 0321 391769 Il mio museo di vecchi computers/My old computers museum http://www.retrocomputing.net ICQ : 49872318 ODIGO : 5269083 ------------------------------------------------------ From gesar at tiscalinet.ch Wed Oct 1 14:02:06 2003 From: gesar at tiscalinet.ch (Stefan Daehler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:14 2005 Subject: Intel Above Board AT Message-ID: <200310011902.h91J25g16906@smtp.tiscali.ch> Could somebody help me with the original software-installer for the Intel Above Board AT? I got such a board in a 286 AT and I were too keen to get it working, however all the installers I found were for some different type of AB. Thanks for caring! Steff From jwest at classiccmp.org Wed Oct 1 14:06:51 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:14 2005 Subject: TI 990 minicomputer References: Message-ID: <00e301c3884f$2be61a00$033310ac@kwcorp.com> You wrote.... ----- Original Message ----- > I have a 990 without operating system, this is a wonderful new :) > > It' difficult make a copy ? No problem at all, I would be happy to make you a copy. The only problem is media - I am not sure if I will have enough spare disk packs to copy one and send to you. Do you have a blank pack for the CDC 80mb drive you could send me, and I could copy the OS onto that? Or can this type of media still be purchased (for the cdc 80mb drive)? I know nothing about how to run this system, so it will take me a few months to get around to learning it and trying it out and seeing how to copy disk packs. Feel free to email me now and then to see if I'm there yet - I have no problems making a copy for you. Jay West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed Oct 1 15:33:07 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:14 2005 Subject: PDP 11/73 SLU In-Reply-To: Brian Hechinger "Re: PDP 11/73 SLU" (Oct 1, 11:43) References: <200310010220.h912Kq9E019657@onyx.spiritone.com> <3F7AFDCD.4050101@srv.net> <20031001114328.M18098@zill.net> Message-ID: <10310012133.ZM13256@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Oct 1, 11:43, Brian Hechinger wrote: > On Wed, Oct 01, 2003 at 10:16:13AM -0600, Kevin Handy wrote: > > > > The CPU card should be almost identical to an 11/83 system. > > Main difference is the speed of the clock, iirc. > > uhm, i thought a /73 was a dual width card and didn't have any serial or > anything on it. am i confused? Yes and no. There is a dual-height version of the 11/73 (KDJ11-A) which carries the processor, MMU, FPA, cache control, etc, but no bootstrap, SLUs, or line-tme clock. It was commonly sold as an OEM product or as an upgrade to 11/23 systems. There is also quad-height version (KDJ11-B), the same board as as the 11/83, but (if sold as an 11/73) it has a 15MHz crystal instead of 18MHz, and would originally have had different bootstrap ROMs. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From brian at quarterbyte.com Wed Oct 1 16:52:22 2003 From: brian at quarterbyte.com (Brian Knittel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:15 2005 Subject: Bruker Aspect 3000 computer and drives available In-Reply-To: <200310011431.h91EVWH5012445@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <3F7AEA26.19729.2E071414@localhost> Wow -- these are funny computers. If I'm not mistaken the Aspect 3000 is a more modern looking machine than the Bruker/Nicolet one that Sellam has pictures of. I'd love to see a picture of it if you can get one. It has semiconductor memory. It uses some bit-slice ALU or other. The disk drive that's with it, if it's a removable type, is probably RK05 compatible, although I read that later models supported SCSI disks. I used one of these in graduate school that was part of an experimental NMR imager (this was before the marketing types came up with "MRI" to get rid of the word "nuclear"). It came with an assembler and Pascal compiler. If I'm not mistaken the OS was called Adakos. It was a two-task foreground/background thing. Our application program was called Tomikon, but I think the one used for analytical work was called DISNMR. Sad to say I can't remember the history of the Bruker/Nicolet link. It may be that Bruker started out making just spectrometers and originally bought their computers from Nicolet (or vice versa). But, I believe that the Aspect 3000 was entirely Bruker's creation. Back the mid to late 80's, they were making and selling these out of Karlsruhe, Germany, and had a sales/support office in Billerica, MA. I spent a week at the Karlesuhe factory for training. These machines are probably still in use in the basements of University chemistry departments and possibly in corporate labs. If the University that has it doesn't want it, they might find a taker by posting on one of the NMR newsgroups. Or, someone with a keen interest in bizarre Pascal implementations should rescue this. Brian =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- _| _| _| Brian Knittel _| _| _| Quarterbyte Systems, Inc. _| _| _| Tel: 1-510-559-7930 _| _| _| Fax: 1-510-525-6889 _| _| _| Email: brian@quarterbyte.com _| _| _| http://www.quarterbyte.com From jpero at sympatico.ca Wed Oct 1 13:45:23 2003 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:15 2005 Subject: Digital Group ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20031001224405.GDSM12138.tomts21-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > On Wed, 1 Oct 2003, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > > > OK, so I just got bombed with requests for the Digital Group > > stuff. Which reminds me... what is/was so special about that > > company (from Colorado, I believe) or their systems? > > Nothing other than it was one of the very earliest of the homebrew kit > computer companies, and they made fairly wacky stuff, like the Phideck and > multiple processor systems. They're sort of on par with OSI in terms of > obscurity: not a whole lot of systems around. > > It's too bad you tossed your hardware :( Agreed. And it's so obscure. Most of them was hand-built. Wizard > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival From vcf at siconic.com Wed Oct 1 17:49:36 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:15 2005 Subject: Bruker Aspect 3000 computer and drives available In-Reply-To: <3F7AEA26.19729.2E071414@localhost> Message-ID: On Wed, 1 Oct 2003, Brian Knittel wrote: > It may be that Bruker started out making just spectrometers and > originally bought their computers from Nicolet (or vice versa). But, Nicolet re-badged Bruker systems. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Oct 1 18:06:53 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:15 2005 Subject: Unwaged In-Reply-To: from "Feldman, Robert" at Oct 1, 3 07:47:49 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 710 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20031002/8015cdc8/attachment.ksh From mikeford at socal.rr.com Wed Oct 1 17:57:02 2003 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:15 2005 Subject: Little Perkin Elmer terminal In-Reply-To: <000201c387b0$51c82190$6501a8c0@DCOHOE> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20031001155201.037d4cf0@pop-server.socal.rr.com> I noticed a small Perkin Elmer terminal setting on a instrument of some kind (spectro something) at a scrap place the other day, looked to be in OK shape, RS232, but I didn't notice the actual model number. Should I have taken a closer look? From dancohoe at oxford.net Wed Oct 1 18:46:47 2003 From: dancohoe at oxford.net (Dan Cohoe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:15 2005 Subject: Bruker Aspect 3000 computer and drives available In-Reply-To: <3F7AEA26.19729.2E071414@localhost> Message-ID: <001f01c38876$479ebe10$6501a8c0@DCOHOE> > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Brian Knittel > Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 5:52 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Bruker Aspect 3000 computer and drives available > > > Wow -- these are funny computers. If I'm not mistaken the Aspect 3000 > is a more modern looking machine than the Bruker/Nicolet one that > Sellam has pictures of. I'd love to see a picture of it if you can > get one. > > It has semiconductor memory. It uses some bit-slice ALU or other. The > disk drive that's with it, if it's a removable type, is probably RK05 > compatible, although I read that later models supported SCSI disks. > > I used one of these in graduate school that was part of an > experimental NMR imager (this was before the marketing types came up > with "MRI" to get rid of the word "nuclear"). It came with an > assembler and Pascal compiler. If I'm not mistaken the OS was called > Adakos. It was a two-task foreground/background thing. Our > application program was called Tomikon, but I think the one used for > analytical work was called DISNMR. > > Sad to say I can't remember the history of the Bruker/Nicolet link. > It may be that Bruker started out making just spectrometers and > originally bought their computers from Nicolet (or vice versa). But, > I believe that the Aspect 3000 was entirely Bruker's creation. Back > the mid to late 80's, they were making and selling these out of > Karlsruhe, Germany, and had a sales/support office in Billerica, MA. > I spent a week at the Karlesuhe factory for training. > > These machines are probably still in use in the basements of > University chemistry departments and possibly in corporate labs. If > the University that has it doesn't want it, they might find a taker > by posting on one of the NMR newsgroups. Or, someone with a keen > interest in bizarre Pascal implementations should rescue this. > > Brian > > Yes you're describing it pretty well I think, not nearly as "classic-looking" as the one Sellam has. A list member with an interest in NMR has asked for it so I'll pick it up within a week or two. The fixed drive is a large fixed disk type,not a removable pack type. I'll post a picture of it when I get it home. Dan From cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net Wed Oct 1 19:32:42 2003 From: cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:15 2005 Subject: PDP 11/73 SLU In-Reply-To: <10310012133.ZM13256@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <200310010220.h912Kq9E019657@onyx.spiritone.com> <3F7AFDCD.4050101@srv.net> <20031001114328.M18098@zill.net> <10310012133.ZM13256@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <1065054248.13320.3.camel@unix> On Wed, 2003-10-01 at 16:33, Pete Turnbull wrote: > On Oct 1, 11:43, Brian Hechinger wrote: > > uhm, i thought a /73 was a dual width card and didn't have any serial > or > > anything on it. am i confused? > > Yes and no. There is a dual-height version of the 11/73 (KDJ11-A) > which carries the processor, MMU, FPA, cache control, etc, but no > bootstrap, SLUs, or line-tme clock. It was commonly sold as an OEM > product or as an upgrade to 11/23 systems. And this is the one that is installed in the Bomem Interferometer. Dual-height card, no SLU or bootstrap. The console is from a custom Bomem card that wants an EGA monitor and standard PC (old style 5 pin round connector) instead of a serial terminal for the console. It is really pretty useless for me, since the EGA monitors all appear to be toast and I wouldn't be able to use VTServer through the custom EGA thing. Interestingly, though, is the fact that this custom card also interfaces into a very large board that I believe is a vector processor. -- Christopher McNabb The McNabb Family From ian_primus at yahoo.com Wed Oct 1 20:35:53 2003 From: ian_primus at yahoo.com (Mr Ian Primus) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:15 2005 Subject: Little Perkin Elmer terminal In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20031001155201.037d4cf0@pop-server.socal.rr.com> Message-ID: <20031002013553.41482.qmail@web13906.mail.yahoo.com> --- Mike Ford wrote: > I noticed a small Perkin Elmer terminal setting on a > instrument of some > kind (spectro something) at a scrap place the other > day, looked to be in OK > shape, RS232, but I didn't notice the actual model > number. Should I have > taken a closer look? > > I probably would have. I have a Perkin Elmer 550 and I love it. It is a good, solid little terminal, even though it doesn't really have all the features that more modern ones do, but it still does it's job well. I'd say rescue it if possible. Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com From jrkeys at concentric.net Wed Oct 1 21:27:33 2003 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:15 2005 Subject: Picked Up An Mits Turnkey 8800b Today Message-ID: <00d201c3888c$be17b6d0$ef0add40@oemcomputer> Late this evening a long drive to get it, I picked up Mits Altair 8800b in great shape and the following manuals: altair 8800b Turnkey Computer Documentation 1st printing July 1977 Altair 88-MDS Minidisk Documentation Preliminary July 1977 altair Disk Operating System Documentation DOS June 1977 Dynabyte Operating Manual for 16k & 32k Fully Static Memory Modules October 1977 Mits Disk Extended BASIC Version Reference Manual July 1978 Now to have some fun getting it up and running. :-) From tothwolf at concentric.net Wed Oct 1 23:58:20 2003 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:15 2005 Subject: Texas Instruments software on ebay... Message-ID: Found this one on ebay (Not affiliated with seller, etc, etc): http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3048936176 Dunno if it is worth it or not, as I don't collect TI stuff myself...I also noticed a few other TI related auctions up as well, one of which is a complete setup. (Though it seems to be very misplaced in the category system.) -Toth From nico at farumdata.dk Thu Oct 2 00:51:47 2003 From: nico at farumdata.dk (Nico de Jong) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:15 2005 Subject: IBM 129 References: <009b01c3870b$d046d980$2101a8c0@farumdata.dk><36259.64.169.63.74.1064902793.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <3F7A0DB8.20906@tiac.net> Message-ID: <001b01c388a9$4ac9de20$2101a8c0@farumdata.dk> Just to make all you old farts drool: an IBM 129 is on auction on eBay germany http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2755264021&category=21926 There is one day plus some hours left, and no bids have yet been given. Nico From wmsmith at earthlink.net Thu Oct 2 01:03:01 2003 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:15 2005 Subject: Intel Above Board AT In-Reply-To: <200310011902.h91J25g16906@smtp.tiscali.ch> Message-ID: <001a01c388aa$d92abb20$7e39cd18@WaynePC> > Could somebody help me with the original software-installer > for the Intel > Above Board AT? > I got such a board in a 286 AT and I were too keen to get it working, > however all the installers I found were for some different type of AB. > > Thanks for caring! Steff > Well of course we care! I have three discs for the Above Board: 1. Installation for Intel Above Boards (Classic Bus Versions) LIM EMS 4.0 2. Intel Above Board ISA Installation Diskette 3. Above Board Setup I also have the following documentation: 1. Installation Guide for Intel Above Board Plus 8 and Plus 8 I/O (at least 200 pgs. long) 2. Information sheet for Lotus/Intel/Microsoft Expanded Memory Specification Version 4.0 3. Upgrading Above Board Software, copyright 1989 4. One sheet entitled "Recent News About Above Board Plus and Plus 8" Let me know what problem you are having and perhaps I can help. -W P.S. One interesting thing about the Intel Above Board is that there are a large number of chips on it (mostly RAM) but none of them are Intel. From TRASH3 at splab.cas.neu.edu Thu Oct 2 07:43:32 2003 From: TRASH3 at splab.cas.neu.edu (TRASH3@splab.cas.neu.edu) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:15 2005 Subject: Intel Above Board AT Message-ID: <031002084332.10a5c@splab.cas.neu.edu> According to the "Installing the Above Board/AT" manual, there really isn't much to the setup program. It is just a helper in that it will properly set up config.sys and autoexec.bat for the expanded memory manager, a print buffer and ramdisk. It does include the print buffer and ramdisk, but dos's ramdrive program (or shareware) should work. I haven't stumbled across the disks yet. Joe Heck From TRASH3 at splab.cas.neu.edu Thu Oct 2 07:56:13 2003 From: TRASH3 at splab.cas.neu.edu (TRASH3@splab.cas.neu.edu) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:15 2005 Subject: Intel Above Board AT Message-ID: <031002085613.10a67@splab.cas.neu.edu> well, I dug around some more and found a 5.25 inch disk "above board/at version 1.1" and also a hand written label for intel above board at and ps/at ver 2.4 contact me off list if you need some support or replacement files. Joe Heck trash3 at splab dot cas dot neu dot edu From jwest at classiccmp.org Thu Oct 2 08:57:42 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:15 2005 Subject: Texas Instruments software on ebay... References: Message-ID: <00ae01c388ed$264fda60$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Bear in mind that this ebay ad is for TI99/4a stuff, a small microcomputer. The system that Alberto and I were talking about was a TI990 series (10A) minicomputer. Vastly different machines (in weight at the very least). Jay West ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tothwolf" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 11:58 PM Subject: Texas Instruments software on ebay... > Found this one on ebay (Not affiliated with seller, etc, etc): > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3048936176 > > Dunno if it is worth it or not, as I don't collect TI stuff myself...I > also noticed a few other TI related auctions up as well, one of which is a > complete setup. (Though it seems to be very misplaced in the category > system.) > > -Toth > --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From MARKF at LSI-MA.COM Wed Oct 1 09:37:03 2003 From: MARKF at LSI-MA.COM (Flahive, Mark) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:15 2005 Subject: 386 motherbrds. Message-ID: Hello Chris, I would like to take those 386 motherboards off your hands if they're still available. Believe it or not we have a use for them. Thanks Mark F. Cell (603) 305-5124 markf@lsi-ma.com From nasim786 at earthlink.net Wed Oct 1 10:08:48 2003 From: nasim786 at earthlink.net (Nasim) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:15 2005 Subject: Century Data T2000 exerciser Message-ID: Hi, This is a belated response to a post you made here: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctech/2003-February/010641.html I happened upon it while doing a 'for fun' search on the net for anything doing with good ol' Century Data, my employer when I was young. Couldn't resist responding to the post, even if it was half a year late! The exerciser that you have is/was for the Trident series of hard disk drives (predecessor to the Marksman). I was the main (in fact, pretty much the ONLY) technician at Century Data/Calcomp, for these exercisers back from the late 1970's to the mid 1980's, when they were phased out. I retired in 1985. Have fun! (BTW, where'd you find one of these dinosaurs??) Take care, Nasim From r.mueller at fz-juelich.de Wed Oct 1 10:28:56 2003 From: r.mueller at fz-juelich.de (R. Mueller) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:15 2005 Subject: Quick Basic (Bob Mason): Zipping it Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.0.20031001172603.02906c80@iffpcsrv.iff.kfa-juelich.de> I could ZIP the files, though not eagerly. QB 4.5 fits on two 3.5 inch diskettes, so it is not large by today's standards. I do not recall how large 7.x is. It always amazes me to look at modern bloatware and compare how little more USEFUL work it produces than earlier, much smaller programs. I happen to have Winword 2 and it meets most of my needs. In fact, except for Internet activities, I am not sure any program I need requires Windows past Windows for Workgroups=3.11. I find Quick Basic sufficient for most calculations and I doubt Visual Basic will do any more beyond filling a larger chunk of my hard disk and DRAM, unless it can handle a larger array (matrix), which is a real limitation in Quick Basic, which dates back to the time of 1 MB machines. Of course, if I loose my mind and decide to promote my image in the form of elaborate Web pages, or to write some parasites, I will find Visual Basic better, but I have not yet reached that stage. I suggest writing directly to me if you are requesting a copy of QB; it reduces the clutter on the newsgroup and it is doubtful others care whether I email one of you the program. And I will send 4.5 unless you really need 7.x (I am not sure where the diskettes are!). Bob From richardbrown at testman.com Wed Oct 1 11:08:58 2003 From: richardbrown at testman.com (Richard Brown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:15 2005 Subject: Perkin Elmer 550 Terminal Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20031001120328.00a15e30@pop.mindspring.com> Hi, I noticed your email with comments about the 550 terminal. I have one that has no vertical and am trying to get info so I can use another terminal in its place. I'm trying to find out what the mode switch position 2 in the on position does to the settings. ANy chance you might be able to tell me that? That's the only MODE switch setting used. The BAUD rate is set at 9600. When I try another ASCII terminal, the characters come out incorrectly on the display of the equipment I'm trying to use the ASCII terminal with. WHere as the perkin elmer terminal gives the correct characters except there is no vertical on the display so I can't read it. Thanks for any help you can give me. Richard Brown 781 938 7033 From bill at timeguy.com Wed Oct 1 11:56:45 2003 From: bill at timeguy.com (Bill Richman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:15 2005 Subject: Geek Destinations in St. Louis? (Also San Diego [slightly different topic]) In-Reply-To: <3F738836.FE97324B@msm.umr.edu> Message-ID: <20031001115138.H54620-100000@outpost.timeguy.com> Went to Gateway's address. They just moved! They're a few miles in the opposite direction now, at 2220 Welsch Industrial Court. I'm glad I had my GPS mapping system along, or we might never have found them. It's a pretty obscure location. They were really happy to see customers finding them at the new place, I think; two of them met us at the door, and one more was waving to us out the window when we pulled up. Seems like a nice bunch of folks. They'd moved all the new stuff, but all the old stuff was still back at the old building. We were trying to get them to take us over to look at it, but they were too busy getting things organized at the new place. They may be having a big equipment sale soon, so keep an eye out. Thanks for the good pointer! We also went to Jasper's Antique Radio Museum, which was kind of neat, although Jasper is kind of a crotchety old guy. Also found a great Indian buffet at the top of Howard Johnson's next to the airport; if you get the chance, give it a try. Wonderful food, reasonable prices, and a great view to boot. On Thu, 25 Sep 2003, jim wrote: > > > > Bill wrote... > > > We'll be in St. Louis this weekend. Any good museums, junk shops, or > > > other recommended geek destinations in the area? GPS coordinates happily > > > accepted. :-) > > > > Two surplus places that I know of... > > > > Gateway Electronics 314-427-6116 or (800-669-5810) 8123 Page Blvd. - St. > > Louis, MO 63130 > > Gateway is mostly modern stuff, but they have an isle or two that is quite > > old stuff. Not great, but worth a look-see. > > The guys at gateway have the building next door full of inventory, and if you > get friendly with the right fellow at the counter, you can get a tour of that > building, > and see a bit of other stuff. Just ask what they have, and indicate you made > a special trip in from some distance and I have found they accomodate me > and dig a bit so that I don't miss any "new" stuff. > > but then I've been coming there since they were on Delmar and Stu had just > started it (maybe 35 years ago). > > Sadly Stu passed away a couple of years ago, and is sorely missed. > > on a slightly different topic. > > Gateway has a San Diego outlet that has some stuff, and there is also a place > nearby there worth seeing in San Diego called Industrial Liquidators. > > I also dig out the listings for the guys in El Cajon when I go down there > junking. > > Any other San diego places to see? > > Jim > From nedry at mail.bedlambells.com Thu Oct 2 01:31:33 2003 From: nedry at mail.bedlambells.com (Mark Firestone) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:15 2005 Subject: Unwaged In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20031002072823.00b8ac50@mail.bedlambells.com> How cynical. I used to work for a company here (the UK) that did IT training for places like the Manchester Housing Authority (or whatever it's called...) and I asked this guy, why did you build all those horrible tower blocks (anyone who hasn't seen it, it looks like they hired a Soviet apartment architect. He said, "the more people we got in the least space... the more funding we got." Take Care, Mark (expat American in Oswaldtwistle) At 00:06 02/10/2003 +0100, Tony wrote: >The reason _I_ say that is that in the UK, 'unemployed' is used to mean >'unemployed and claiming benefit'. The government fiddle the unemployment >figures by preventing people from claiming benefits for more than 6 >months or so. Thus they can claim few people are unemployed, even if a >rather larger number don't actually have jobs. > >In any case, I am not unemployed. I do plenty of jobs (fixing old >computers, old cameras, building hackish toys, etc). Pity I don't get >paid for doing them, but... > >-tony [---------] "There's your answer, fishbulb." Website - http://www.retrobbs.org Tradewars - telnet tradewars.retrobbs.org BBS - telnet bbs.retrobbs.org 2323 WIKI - http://www.tpoh.org/cgi-bin/tpoh-wiki [---------] From booned at ccvalve.com Thu Oct 2 07:57:45 2003 From: booned at ccvalve.com (Dan J Boone) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:15 2005 Subject: 8-inch floppy drives Message-ID: <000801c388e4$c69720e0$5810040a@camerondiv.com> please get back asap if you have any available units left...my cell is 405-659-0494 or reply to this e-mail or fax me at 405-629-0470 thanks ken ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ This e-mail is confidential, may contain proprietary information of the Cooper Cameron Corporation and its operating Divisions and may be confidential or privileged. This e-mail should be read, copied, disseminated and/or used only by the addressee. If you have received this message in error please delete it, together with any attachments, from your system. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From cb at mythtech.net Thu Oct 2 09:18:48 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:15 2005 Subject: 386 motherbrds. Message-ID: >Hello Chris, > I would like to take those 386 motherboards off your hands if they're >still available. Believe it or not we have a use for them. Sorry, ALL PC's have been sent to the dump. Nothing left to give away in the 386/486/low Pentium level. I do have some IBM AT's, an XT, and a few PC's available however. They are on the junk list, just haven't made it that far yet. -chris From waltje at pdp11.nl Thu Oct 2 10:17:43 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:15 2005 Subject: Looking for (Irwin) EZtape V1.0 for DOS Message-ID: Hiyas, Dont laugh. Yes, I need that annoying program, so I can read some of my (very old) tapes which contain seemingly interesting stuff.. didnt know I still had those :) Cheers, Fred -- Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist Visit the VAXlab Project at http://www.pdp11.nl/VAXlab/ Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Sunnyvale, CA, USA From markk at clara.co.uk Thu Oct 2 12:12:42 2003 From: markk at clara.co.uk (Mark) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:15 2005 Subject: CorelSCSI for Macintosh Message-ID: Hi, I recently picked up a copy of CorelSCSI v1.01 for Macintosh on eBay. What was the last/final version of CorelSCSI for the Mac? Does anyone have a version later than 1.01? I'd also like to get hold of earlier Corel SCSI-related Mac software. I think the product names were CorelDRIVER and Optistar. Some background: CorelSCSI allows SCSI devices to be used on (older) Mac computers. Apart from CD-ROM and direct-access devices, e.g. SyQuest drives and rewritable magneto-optical, it supports WORM drives and media. It may be the only Mac software which supports write-once media, with Mac applications seeing WORM disks as normal HFS volumes. It's no longer sold or supported by Corel. No more modern packages like FWB Hard Disk Toolkit and FormatterOne from Software Architects support write-once media. Regards, -- Mark From gesar at tiscalinet.ch Thu Oct 2 11:10:49 2003 From: gesar at tiscalinet.ch (Stefan Daehler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:15 2005 Subject: Intel Above Board AT Message-ID: <200310021610.h92GAng04274@smtp.tiscali.ch> Original Message: >well, I dug around some more and found a 5.25 inch disk "above board/at >version 1.1" and also a hand written label for intel above board at and >ps/at ver 2.4 > >contact me off list if you need some support or replacement files. > >Joe Heck trash3 at splab dot cas dot neu dot edu So, there may be some hope. In fact, I just have the bare board, no software, no manuals. I tried several installers I found for download, but none of them worked with the AB AT. I'm an absolute novice on old DOS-machines and I'm always glad if some installer does the configuration of CONFIG.SYS and AUTOEXEC.BAT. You'd do me a great favor if you could send me this installer. Thanks. Steff From allain at panix.com Thu Oct 2 11:29:42 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:15 2005 Subject: got terminals? (dec) References: <6.0.0.22.0.20031001172603.02906c80@iffpcsrv.iff.kfa-juelich.de> Message-ID: <024f01c38902$627ffa00$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Back when we bought VT100 terminals new from Dec, they all came with DB25f terminators on their printer ports, probably to protect them from ESD. I just got *large* supply of Dec 12-15336-02 DB25f terminators that I don't need (and other, more needed things). If you have suitable Dec terminals (pre-MMJ) that you want to protect, let me know and I'll send you some terminators. John A. From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org Thu Oct 2 12:02:03 2003 From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:15 2005 Subject: Garage sale, DEC 3000/500 $50, HSZ40 $25, ... Message-ID: <3F7C5A0B.2040702@aurora.regenstrief.org> Am I crazy to sell a DEC 3000/500 server (desk side) for $50? I believe it's got all the RAM it can fit and disk in and lots SCSI plugs out. My HSZ40s go for $25 a piece. My HP9000K400 with 2xDDS2 drives and 30 GB (?) RAID array and HP Terminal all in one rack go for $100. Am I crazy or just fed up about stuff taking space in my garage? If you are in the Indianapolis area and want to get some stuff, go for it as long as supplies last. -Gunther From liste at artware.qc.ca Thu Oct 2 12:18:02 2003 From: liste at artware.qc.ca (liste@artware.qc.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:15 2005 Subject: Mac SE/30 revival Message-ID: I was driving into town when I spoted the aforementioned computer in some phule's garbage. I stopped and pulled it out. However, when I turn it on, the screen comes up 4 grey scan lines, then alternating 8 black scan lines and 8 grey scan lines. A friend mentioned that this is normal boot config, that it should then proceed to the happy mac icon and so on. He asked if the ROM was still in it. I can't get the box open though : I don't have the extra special long torx driver to get at the 2 top screws. And the hex extention bits I have don't fit into the hole. Anyone have a clue about how to revive this? I'd love to get netbsd running on it. Or is it hopeless? -Philip From liste at artware.qc.ca Thu Oct 2 12:22:09 2003 From: liste at artware.qc.ca (liste@artware.qc.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:15 2005 Subject: 2600 video touch pad Message-ID: So I was poking around a brocante in Sherbrooke and I spied a bag with Star Raiders and a Video Touch Pad. SCORE! Also in the bag : a RCA RF cable. I got it all for 3 CAD. The place had a hugely inflated idea about what these were worth : they were selling what looked like a Coleco 2600 clone for 20 CAD! I'd never seen a video touch pad before and only vaguely heard it refered to. I've not tested it, but plan to soon. -Philip From nico at farumdata.dk Thu Oct 2 12:24:18 2003 From: nico at farumdata.dk (Nico de Jong) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:15 2005 Subject: Looking for (Irwin) EZtape V1.0 for DOS References: Message-ID: <001401c3890a$054397e0$2101a8c0@farumdata.dk> If you can do with a version 2.22, I can help you. Nico ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred N. van Kempen" To: Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 5:17 PM Subject: Looking for (Irwin) EZtape V1.0 for DOS > Hiyas, > > Dont laugh. Yes, I need that annoying program, so I can read some > of my (very old) tapes which contain seemingly interesting stuff.. > didnt know I still had those :) > > Cheers, > Fred > -- > Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist > Visit the VAXlab Project at http://www.pdp11.nl/VAXlab/ > Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ > Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Sunnyvale, CA, USA > > From curt at atarimuseum.com Thu Oct 2 12:59:06 2003 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (AHS Mail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:15 2005 Subject: 2600 video touch pad References: Message-ID: <001701c3890e$df55de80$1e02a8c0@WNYC1145744> Philip, If you go to Jack Berg Sales website (in TX, do a Google to find them) they sell the full Atari 2600 Star Raiders package brand new in Mint boxes with the Video Touch Pad Boxes and Star Raiders boxed inside a large combo package, they also have lots of other cool stuff. Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 1:22 PM Subject: 2600 video touch pad > So I was poking around a brocante in Sherbrooke and I spied a bag with > Star Raiders and a Video Touch Pad. SCORE! Also in the bag : a RCA RF > cable. I got it all for 3 CAD. The place had a hugely inflated idea > about what these were worth : they were selling what looked like a Coleco > 2600 clone for 20 CAD! > > I'd never seen a video touch pad before and only vaguely heard it refered > to. I've not tested it, but plan to soon. > > -Philip From ian_primus at yahoo.com Thu Oct 2 13:01:31 2003 From: ian_primus at yahoo.com (Ian Primus) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:15 2005 Subject: Perkin Elmer 550 Terminal In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20031001120328.00a15e30@pop.mindspring.com> Message-ID: <73DF76B8-F502-11D7-91F9-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> On Wednesday, October 1, 2003, at 12:08 PM, Richard Brown wrote: > Hi, > I noticed your email with comments about the 550 terminal. I have one > that has no vertical and am trying to get info so I can use another > terminal in its place. I'm trying to find out what the mode switch > position 2 in the on position does to the settings. ANy chance you > might be able to tell me that? That's the only MODE switch setting > used. The BAUD rate is set at 9600. When I try another ASCII > terminal, the characters come out incorrectly on the display of the > equipment I'm trying to use the ASCII terminal with. WHere as the > perkin elmer terminal gives the correct characters except there is no > vertical on the display so I can't read it. > Thanks for any help you can give me. > Richard Brown > 781 938 7033 > > Ok, I got the manual off the shelf - here are the switch settings: Switches 1 and 2 set the parity: Switch 1 Switch 2 Parity ------------------------- Off Off Odd Off On Even On Off Mark On On Space The other switches are for the other functions: Switch # On Off ---------------------------------------------- Switch 3 1 stop bit 2 stop bits Switch 4 50 Hz 60 Hz Switch 5 Inverse video Standard video Switch 6* - 12v open Switch 7* + 12v open Switch 8 Half Duplex Full Duplex Switch 9 DTR High Line switch controlled DTR * - Only applies to terminals with current loop option Hopefully this is the information you were looking for, let me know if it helps. Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com From ian_primus at yahoo.com Thu Oct 2 13:10:06 2003 From: ian_primus at yahoo.com (Ian Primus) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:15 2005 Subject: Mac SE/30 revival In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thursday, October 2, 2003, at 01:18 PM, liste@artware.qc.ca wrote: > I was driving into town when I spoted the aforementioned computer in > some > phule's garbage. I stopped and pulled it out. However, when I turn it > on, the screen comes up 4 grey scan lines, then alternating 8 black > scan > lines and 8 grey scan lines. A friend mentioned that this is normal > boot > config, that it should then proceed to the happy mac icon and so on. > He > asked if the ROM was still in it. I can't get the box open though : I > don't have the extra special long torx driver to get at the 2 top > screws. > And the hex extention bits I have don't fit into the hole. > > Anyone have a clue about how to revive this? I'd love to get netbsd > running on it. > > Or is it hopeless? > > -Philip > Should be repairable. Here is a site that has just about everything you ever wanted to know about the Macintosh SE/30. http://www.biwa.ne.jp/~shamada/fullmac/repairEng.html As for getting the computer open, I made my own tool. Here is what you will need: a Bic Stic pen (the white round ones) a new pencil (hex shaped type) a T-15 driver bit Take the pen, and pull out the ink cartridge and the black plug at the end, leaving you with a hollow plastic tube. Now, sharpen the end of the pencil a little, and shove it into the pen barrel until it is firmly lodged. Then, shove the T-15 driver bit in the other end of the pen barrel. What you have now is a rather kludgey tool that you can use to get the screws out from inside the handle. It _does_ work, and I have opened many a mac this way. Good luck! Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com From cb at mythtech.net Thu Oct 2 13:22:11 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:15 2005 Subject: Mac SE/30 revival Message-ID: >However, when I turn it >on, the screen comes up 4 grey scan lines, then alternating 8 black scan >lines and 8 grey scan lines. A friend mentioned that this is normal boot >config, that it should then proceed to the happy mac icon and so on. He >asked if the ROM was still in it. Er... none of my healthy classic macs start like that. And if that WAS normal, then it indeed should proceed to either a Happy Mac, or a floppy with a blinking question mark, or a Sad Mac with a code number. Since you don't indicate that you get any of the above, I'd have to say something is wrong. If it was something internally testable, such as bad or missing ram, or a bad or missing ROM simm, then you should get a sad mac code (lots of other things are internally testable as well and would resuld in a sad mac code). Do you get any noises when it is on? Any squeels, or flupping noise, or anything? Is there a startup BONG when you power it up? Can you hear a hard drive spinning up inside? are the lines vertical or horizontal? Once it goes to the 8x8 pattern, does it just continue to repeat that? What happens if you leave it on for a while (5 minutes or so). -chris From alberto at a2sistemi.it Thu Oct 2 15:21:14 2003 From: alberto at a2sistemi.it (Alberto Rubinelli - A2 Sistemi) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:15 2005 Subject: Texas Instruments software on ebay... In-Reply-To: <00ae01c388ed$264fda60$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: > Bear in mind that this ebay ad is for TI99/4a stuff, a small > microcomputer. > The system that Alberto and I were talking about was a TI990 series (10A) > minicomputer. Vastly different machines (in weight at the very least). There is only a "little" weight difference :)) Alberto ------------------------------------------------------ Alberto Rubinelli Mail : alberto@a2sistemi.it A2 SISTEMI Web : www.a2sistemi.it Via Costantino Perazzi 22 Tel 0321 640149 28100 NOVARA (NO) - ITALY Fax 0321 391769 Il mio museo di vecchi computers/My old computers museum http://www.retrocomputing.net ICQ : 49872318 ODIGO : 5269083 ------------------------------------------------------ From geoffr at zipcon.net Thu Oct 2 15:38:34 2003 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:15 2005 Subject: WD 1002-05 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.2.20031002133722.04a2ddb0@mail.zipcon.net> Hey! anyone have any of these floating around? I'm feeling twisted and am thinking of hooking up a HD on/in my model 4 :) (trying to decide if I can figure out how to mount the board inside the mod IV case :) From geoffreythomas at onetel.net.uk Thu Oct 2 14:03:08 2003 From: geoffreythomas at onetel.net.uk (Geoffrey Thomas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:15 2005 Subject: Unwaged References: <5.2.0.9.0.20031002072823.00b8ac50@mail.bedlambells.com> Message-ID: <007301c3892b$abec6060$725c4ed5@geoff> That's correct , they had a minimum person density per acre for new build and you couldn't build publicly funded housing which didn't at least meet that minimum. This was in the sixties or poss. 50's onwards . What are they now doing with all those high-rise places - yes , that's right , they're pulling them down . The blind leading the blind , or how governments love to waste our money. Geoff. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Firestone" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 7:31 AM Subject: Re: Unwaged > How cynical. I used to work for a company here (the UK) that did IT > training for places like the Manchester Housing Authority (or whatever it's > called...) and I asked this guy, why did you build all those horrible tower > blocks (anyone who hasn't seen it, it looks like they hired a Soviet > apartment architect. > > He said, "the more people we got in the least space... the more funding we > got." > > Take Care, > > Mark (expat American in Oswaldtwistle) > > At 00:06 02/10/2003 +0100, Tony wrote: > > >The reason _I_ say that is that in the UK, 'unemployed' is used to mean > >'unemployed and claiming benefit'. The government fiddle the unemployment > >figures by preventing people from claiming benefits for more than 6 > >months or so. Thus they can claim few people are unemployed, even if a > >rather larger number don't actually have jobs. > > > >In any case, I am not unemployed. I do plenty of jobs (fixing old > >computers, old cameras, building hackish toys, etc). Pity I don't get > >paid for doing them, but... > > > >-tony > > [---------] > "There's your answer, fishbulb." > > Website - http://www.retrobbs.org > Tradewars - telnet tradewars.retrobbs.org > BBS - telnet bbs.retrobbs.org 2323 > WIKI - http://www.tpoh.org/cgi-bin/tpoh-wiki > > [---------] > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Oct 2 17:07:46 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:15 2005 Subject: stuff FA Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031002180746.007b94a0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Just finished listing a Cablescan ET-1024 cable continuity tester, a couple of NICE Real Time Devices PC/104 Data Modules, a National Instruments GPIB card and a DDC Syncro to Digital or Resolver to Digital converter card on E-bay. See Joe From vcf at siconic.com Thu Oct 2 17:26:46 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:15 2005 Subject: 2600 video touch pad In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 2 Oct 2003 liste@artware.qc.ca wrote: > So I was poking around a brocante in Sherbrooke and I spied a bag with > Star Raiders and a Video Touch Pad. SCORE! Also in the bag : a RCA RF > cable. I got it all for 3 CAD. The place had a hugely inflated idea > about what these were worth : they were selling what looked like a Coleco > 2600 clone for 20 CAD! That would probably be the Gemini. CAD$20 is not bad for that. They aren't terribly common. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Oct 2 17:21:49 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:15 2005 Subject: Perkin Elmer 550 Terminal In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20031001120328.00a15e30@pop.mindspring.com> from "Richard Brown" at Oct 1, 3 12:08:58 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 400 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20031002/c1b70329/attachment.ksh From aek at spies.com Thu Oct 2 19:15:43 2003 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:15 2005 Subject: Pertec tape formatter manual Message-ID: <200310030015.h930FhRa015474@spies.com> The Pertec 9 track PE formatter manual that is on loan from Joe is now scanned and on line at www.spies.com/aek/pdf/pertec/101399_F6X9_PEfmtr_Dec71.pdf It isn't going to be directly of use for 7 or 9 track NRZI though, since it appears to be PE only. It does describe the original PERTEC dual 100 pin interface cables, though. I've gotten about 2/3 of the way through scanning the material that arrived from him earlier this week. Things should start trickling onto the web site over the next few weeks. From jrkeys at concentric.net Thu Oct 2 19:21:53 2003 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:15 2005 Subject: Key needed for Altair 8800b Message-ID: <013d01c38944$598b2ae0$b008dd40@oemcomputer> Does anyone have an extra key or know a source for the front panel for the Altair Turnkey computer? Thanks in advance From jwstephens at msm.umr.edu Thu Oct 2 19:27:12 2003 From: jwstephens at msm.umr.edu (jim) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:15 2005 Subject: Geek Destinations in St. Louis? (Also San Diego [slightlydifferent topic]) References: <20031001115138.H54620-100000@outpost.timeguy.com> Message-ID: <3F7CC260.550EDC6D@msm.umr.edu> there was a good barbeque place up on convoy that we stopped at. Thanks for the heads up on the address, I'd have been lost or following the maps and cusssing. Also had not heard of the Jaspers, I'll look it up. Also to run this topic into the ground, Dinner at the 94th aero squadron (or whatever restaraunt is running in their building next to the runway) is good. It is at Mongomery field, which is adjacent to the 805 / 163 X crossing, and near these outlets. Jim Bill Richman wrote: > Went to Gateway's address. They just moved! They're a few miles in the > opposite direction now, at 2220 Welsch Industrial Court. > We also went to Jasper's Antique Radio > Museum, which was kind of neat, although Jasper is kind of a crotchety old > guy. Also found a great Indian buffet at the top of Howard Johnson's next > to the airport; if you get the chance, give it a try. Wonderful food, > reasonable prices, and a great view to boot. > > On Thu, 25 Sep 2003, jim wrote: Did you find the El Cajon places? I just looked in the yellow pages and did a google search for "san diego electronic junk or such" Jim From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Thu Oct 2 22:32:22 2003 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:15 2005 Subject: Key needed for Altair 8800b In-Reply-To: <013d01c38944$598b2ae0$b008dd40@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <000001c3895e$f8388290$947ba8c0@p933> I doubt that they'd all be keyed the same, but if you'd like I can take mine over to a locksmith and see what can be done. . . Erik Klein www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum The Vintage Computer Forum -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Keys Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 5:22 PM To: cctech@classiccmp Subject: Key needed for Altair 8800b Does anyone have an extra key or know a source for the front panel for the Altair Turnkey computer? Thanks in advance From jvansickler at cox.net Thu Oct 2 23:59:32 2003 From: jvansickler at cox.net (jvansickler@cox.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:15 2005 Subject: AMSTRAD PCW8256 systems & sw available Message-ID: <20031003045931.DSHS10143.fed1mtao05.cox.net@smtp.west.cox.net> I have 3 complete systems, all working. All upgraded to 512k. Two desktop cases, one w/single 5 1/4", one w/two 5 1/4" (PCW can be config'd to use both, instead of 3" A:, 5 1/4" B:) One contains a home-made (wire-wrapped) ser/par interface Two spare 5 1/4" drives Chips for 2 more memory upgrades A few printer ribbons Numerous Public Domain prog's, on 3" and 5 1/4" A couple of dozen 3" diskettes, all written to. A couple of year's worth of the PCW SIG Newsletters (Al Warsh's UG) Various PCW app's - Mini-Office Professional DBase II LocoScript II more - I can't recall exactly, but will look for it if you ask about it. Let me know if you're interested. Thanks, Jim From finnegpt at purdue.edu Fri Oct 3 00:06:52 2003 From: finnegpt at purdue.edu (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:15 2005 Subject: Bruker Aspect 3000 computer and drives available In-Reply-To: <001f01c38876$479ebe10$6501a8c0@DCOHOE> References: <001f01c38876$479ebe10$6501a8c0@DCOHOE> Message-ID: <200310030006.52190.finnegpt@purdue.edu> > > -----Original Message----- > > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Brian Knittel > > Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 5:52 PM > > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > Subject: Bruker Aspect 3000 computer and drives available > > > > > > Wow -- these are funny computers. If I'm not mistaken the Aspect 3000 > > is a more modern looking machine than the Bruker/Nicolet one that > > Sellam has pictures of. I'd love to see a picture of it if you can > > get one. Sometimes, it's really strange how things work out. One of these just got sent out to Purdue's surplus Op the same day Dan sent out his first email (in fact, I think I got back to campus in time to recieve the message). Well, I've decided to go back and get it, and am working on taking pictures of it. I've got a somewhat blurry shot of the front available at: http://purdueriots.com/compcollect/aspect3k/ I'm going to try to take better pictures of it in a few minutes. I'm not sure what I want to do with it yet, if you're interested, feel free to contact me; it's also got a (250lb?) CDC fixed/removable platter disk drive. There were barely any cables left on it, and everything that wasn't a power cable was just cut off. Sometime, it just pisses me off how they treat stuff that's going out to salvage/surplus to try to be resold. Gah. I'll post further pictures up at the url above. -- Pat PLUG Vice President -- http://plug.purdue.org Slackware Linux -- http://slackware.com Purdue University Research Computing -- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs From vcf at siconic.com Fri Oct 3 00:18:47 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:16 2005 Subject: AMSTRAD PCW8256 systems & sw available In-Reply-To: <20031003045931.DSHS10143.fed1mtao05.cox.net@smtp.west.cox.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 3 Oct 2003 jvansickler@cox.net wrote: > Let me know if you're interested. Hi Jim. Where are they located? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From bmachacek at pcisys.net Fri Oct 3 00:53:40 2003 From: bmachacek at pcisys.net (Bill Machacek) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:16 2005 Subject: PDT 11/150 Message-ID: <006c01c38972$baeae860$0200000a@xeon> Hi All: I just rescued a Digital PDT 11/150 from going to the scarp yard. Now that I have it, what have I got? I also got a number of 8" disks and a VT100. Both units are very heavy units. I am not a DEC person, but I figured these were pretty old units and I just couldn't stand the thought of them going to the trash heap. Thanks Bill Machacek From netsurfer_x1 at fastmailbox.net Fri Oct 3 01:14:43 2003 From: netsurfer_x1 at fastmailbox.net (David Vohs) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:16 2005 Subject: HP-85 consumables. Message-ID: <20031003061443.723C33D9DB@www.fastmail.fm> Hi all! I'll be getting an HP-85 before the month is out & I was wondering where I could find a source for consumables (tape cartridges & thermal paper specifically) for this machine. Any info would be more than helpful. -- David Vohs netsurfer_x1@fastmailbox.net -- http://www.fastmail.fm - Choose from over 50 domains or use your own From jcwren at jcwren.com Fri Oct 3 08:00:35 2003 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:16 2005 Subject: PDT 11/150 In-Reply-To: <006c01c38972$baeae860$0200000a@xeon> References: <006c01c38972$baeae860$0200000a@xeon> Message-ID: <200310030900.35001.jcwren@jcwren.com> This is how addictions start, Bill. --John On Friday 03 October 2003 01:53 am, Bill Machacek wrote: > Hi All: > I just rescued a Digital PDT 11/150 from going to the scarp yard. Now > that I have it, what have I got? I also got a number of 8" disks and a > VT100. Both units are very heavy units. I am not a DEC person, but I > figured these were pretty old units and I just couldn't stand the thought > of them going to the trash heap. > > Thanks > > Bill Machacek From gschadow at regenstrief.org Thu Oct 2 11:49:50 2003 From: gschadow at regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:16 2005 Subject: Garage sale, DEC 3000/500 $50, HSZ40 $25, ... Message-ID: <3F7C572E.6010300@regenstrief.org> Am I crazy to sell a DEC 3000/500 server (desk side) for $50? I believe it's got all the RAM it can fit and disk in and lots SCSI plugs out. My HSZ40s go for $25 a piece. My HP9000K400 with 2xDDS2 drives and 30 GB (?) RAID array and HP Terminal all in one rack go for $100. Am I crazy or just fed up about stuff taking space in my garage? If you are in the Indianapolis area and want to get some stuff, go for it as long as supplies last. -Gunther From P_tornatore at westcomp.com Thu Oct 2 16:02:58 2003 From: P_tornatore at westcomp.com (Paul Tornatore) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:16 2005 Subject: parts Message-ID: Im looking for about 60 of TIL308 ? would you know where I can get these ? thanks Paul From jwest at classiccmp.org Fri Oct 3 08:06:06 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:16 2005 Subject: HP-85 consumables. References: <20031003061443.723C33D9DB@www.fastmail.fm> Message-ID: <009601c389af$1b8096c0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> No idea on the paper, I'd like to know. but, the tape cartridges can still be bought new. The HP-85 uses QIC-40 tapes, the brand name being "DC-1000". I found a site that sells them in boxes of 5 for $11 something... like $11.95 each tape. I only need a few, anyone want to go in on a box or two and split them up? Jay West ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Vohs" To: Sent: Friday, October 03, 2003 1:14 AM Subject: HP-85 consumables. > Hi all! > > I'll be getting an HP-85 before the month is out & I was wondering where > I could find a source for consumables (tape cartridges & thermal paper > specifically) for this machine. > > Any info would be more than helpful. > -- > David Vohs > netsurfer_x1@fastmailbox.net > > -- > http://www.fastmail.fm - Choose from over 50 domains or use your own > --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From jwest at classiccmp.org Fri Oct 3 08:13:15 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:16 2005 Subject: HP DOS O/S help? Message-ID: <00a901c389b0$1b0ea5a0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> I have an HP diagnostics pack on 7900 media that I would like to put on 1/2 bootable mag tape. According to the manuals on the diganostic configurator, going from 7900 to 7970 media isn't directly supported by the configurator diag initialization routine. It does say that the way to do it is to boot up DOS or RTE and copy the binary images from disk to tape. I know nothing about DOS or RTE. From what I can tell DOS should be much easier to set up quickly and require less knowledge/learning than RTE. I have no desire to learn DOS or RTE, I just want to get something up quickly and temporarily that will let me copy the diag suite from 7900 pack to 7970 mag tape. Does anyone here know how to install DOS on a 2100/7900/7906 system and what commands to use to copy the diag absolute binary images from disk to tape? I'd appreciate the quick "cheat sheet" version. Thanks! Jay West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From jwest at classiccmp.org Fri Oct 3 08:28:22 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:16 2005 Subject: HP 7906 drive lives again & stuff Message-ID: <00af01c389b2$37cbe840$033310ac@kwcorp.com> After suffering a head crash on my "new" 7906, I decided I REALLY should have taken the time to clean the filter and the blower squirrel cage and air ducts better before using it. That was done, then the drive wouldn't seek past load point. So I swapped all the cards in the drive card cage with a "spares set" and now the drive is working wonderfully again, passing all diags. It is SO nice to not rely on a single 7900 drive anymore! Word to the wise - lesson learned - never skimp on dissassembly/cleanup of an old style 14" drive. Take the time to get every last piece of dust & debris out! Over the next few weeks I will be cleaning, refurbing, and testing all the other 7906 drives I have. Once I get all working that can be made to work... I will have some known working 7906 drives available for trade, as well as some 13037 controller boxes. Might not have spares of the 13037 pca that goes in the host though. If anyone is interested, let me know. Keep in mind these drives are somewhere in the neighborhood of 200 pounds each. I may get my 7905's working too but not sure I want to give those up just yet. Also - the only way I found to clean the squirrel cage blower was to take it out and clean each fan blade by hand and with a toothbrush. The very fine dust that makes it past the secondary filter cakes on these blades and is very hard to scrub off - it's like concrete. Does anyone have any ideas here? I was thinking of soaking the blower in something to loosen the dirt, but it's unfinished metal and might rust. Any thoughts? Regards, Jay West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From wh.sudbrink at verizon.net Fri Oct 3 08:30:03 2003 From: wh.sudbrink at verizon.net (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:16 2005 Subject: Key needed for Altair 8800b In-Reply-To: <013d01c38944$598b2ae0$b008dd40@oemcomputer> Message-ID: > Does anyone have an extra key or know a source for the front > panel for the Altair Turnkey computer? Thanks in advance A college friend of mine (who was a locksmith at the time, but unfortunately is no longer) was able to disassemble the lock on my B turnkey box and produce a working key, which he claimed should be indistinguishable from the original. The cylinder key blanks he had were 30 years old. I had him engrave "reproduction" on it. Anyway, what I guess I'm saying is that, if you take it to a good locksmith, they will be able to make you a key. From jwest at classiccmp.org Fri Oct 3 08:39:39 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:16 2005 Subject: HP cable sought Message-ID: <00cd01c389b3$cb643840$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Looking for the cable that goes from an HP2100/1000 cpu to a 2895B paper tape punch. I can fabricate one from spare cables, but I'd rather get an original. Anyone have one to trade? Jay West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From allain at panix.com Fri Oct 3 08:30:31 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:16 2005 Subject: Heathkit CRT Test device. References: <1064451305.20621.6.camel@unix> <3F75ECD4.5000206@srv.net> <009901c38534$2821c040$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <000001c389b4$c56ed700$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> I'm probably tossing this tomorrow if there are no takers. j ----- Original Message ----- From: John Allain To: CCTalk Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2003 4:15 PM Subject: Heathkit CRT Test device. Today I picked up a "Heathkit CRT Tester and Rejuvenator IT-5230" in case. It has 5 standard socket adaptors for various tubes plus two more, including alligator clips, for the rest. Also 2 potentiometers, 4 meters, 6 switches, and 10 lights. Knowing what I do about some people on the list getting stuck with CRT's that are hard to replace I thought I would give this a try. Give me an offer for shipping and handling and it's yours, else I think it goes back in a week. John A. From jrkeys at concentric.net Fri Oct 3 08:48:32 2003 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:16 2005 Subject: Key needed for Altair 8800b References: <000001c3895e$f8388290$947ba8c0@p933> Message-ID: <005801c389b5$0e307b10$4308dd40@oemcomputer> That would be great, I will cover the cost of a new key and the postage to 77082. Plus let me know how much for your time. Thanks!!! :-) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Erik S. Klein" To: "'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'" Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 10:32 PM Subject: RE: Key needed for Altair 8800b > I doubt that they'd all be keyed the same, but if you'd like I can take > mine over to a locksmith and see what can be done. . . > > Erik Klein > www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum > The Vintage Computer Forum > > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Keys > Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 5:22 PM > To: cctech@classiccmp > Subject: Key needed for Altair 8800b > > Does anyone have an extra key or know a source for the front panel for > the > Altair Turnkey computer? Thanks in advance > > > > From jbmcb at hotmail.com Fri Oct 3 09:03:24 2003 From: jbmcb at hotmail.com (Jason McBrien) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:16 2005 Subject: Mac SE/30 revival References: Message-ID: That is absolutely ingenious, but if you're gonna be doing some serious vintage computer hacking you better get yourself a toolkit. I picked up a big pack of security bits with a ratchet driver for about $6.00 from Big Lots, a discount/closeout chain. I aquired a long T15 driver from somewhere (don't remember :) but Parts Express has a really nice one for $7.00. http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Product_ID=10523&DID=7 Also check CyberGuys, they have good, cheap tools, as well as the most resonable price on new SCSI and GPIB cables I've seen anywhere. > As for getting the computer open, I made my own tool. Here is what you > will need: > > a Bic Stic pen (the white round ones) > a new pencil (hex shaped type) > a T-15 driver bit > > Take the pen, and pull out the ink cartridge and the black plug at the > end, leaving you with a hollow plastic tube. Now, sharpen the end of > the pencil a little, and shove it into the pen barrel until it is > firmly lodged. Then, shove the T-15 driver bit in the other end of the > pen barrel. What you have now is a rather kludgey tool that you can use > to get the screws out from inside the handle. It _does_ work, and I > have opened many a mac this way. > > Good luck! > > Ian Primus > ian_primus@yahoo.com > > From jwest at classiccmp.org Fri Oct 3 09:30:54 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:16 2005 Subject: m4 data tape drive board sought? Message-ID: <012a01c389ba$f3b5b4c0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> heheheheeee I just have to ask, but I bet it's not around.... Anyone have the 800bpi NRZI option board for an M4 data tape drive? Jay West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From RMaxwell at atlantissi.com Fri Oct 3 10:00:17 2003 From: RMaxwell at atlantissi.com (Robert Maxwell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:16 2005 Subject: Intel Programmer IPPS format Message-ID: <9726BA9DE867D51183B900B0D0AB85F8013E486E@INETMAIL> This will meet the on-topic age requirement, at least... For programming devices like processors and EPROMS with an Intel Universal Programmer, a file format was used, called "IPPS." I need to program 8749 processors from files in IPPS format, and have no working Universal Programmer. The format appears to be a block-oriented binary, with a file header identifying the target device, and headers of indeterminate size preceding sections of binary code. Nobody I spoke to at Intel recognizes it. Does anybody remember, or have access to, documentation/data or (dreaming in Technicolor(R)) a utility to convert IPPS files into a less-unique format, say binary or Intel Hex? This would save me from having to type in hex values from an old listing to regenerate the code. Help! Bob Maxwell Tel: (905) 792-1981 x313 rmaxwell@atlantissi.com From esharpe at uswest.net Fri Oct 3 12:02:25 2003 From: esharpe at uswest.net (Ed Sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:16 2005 Subject: HP 7906 drive lives again & stuff References: <00af01c389b2$37cbe840$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <001801c389d0$1f249580$4291a8c0@aoldsl.net> it is perhaps a combo of dust and fumes deposited on there... methyl Ethel keytone... but then the cleaner will cause your liver to drop out of your body an and is a really bad cancer thing..... another thing that might be better is to take it to a clock shop where they have some wonder solvents and a large ultra sonic cleaner.... let them breathe the various fumes....... be careful with any of this stuff you use..... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jay West" To: Sent: Friday, October 03, 2003 6:28 AM Subject: HP 7906 drive lives again & stuff > After suffering a head crash on my "new" 7906, I decided I REALLY should > have taken the time to clean the filter and the blower squirrel cage and air > ducts better before using it. That was done, then the drive wouldn't seek > past load point. So I swapped all the cards in the drive card cage with a > "spares set" and now the drive is working wonderfully again, passing all > diags. It is SO nice to not rely on a single 7900 drive anymore! > > Word to the wise - lesson learned - never skimp on dissassembly/cleanup of > an old style 14" drive. Take the time to get every last piece of dust & > debris out! > > Over the next few weeks I will be cleaning, refurbing, and testing all the > other 7906 drives I have. Once I get all working that can be made to work... > I will have some known working 7906 drives available for trade, as well as > some 13037 controller boxes. Might not have spares of the 13037 pca that > goes in the host though. If anyone is interested, let me know. Keep in mind > these drives are somewhere in the neighborhood of 200 pounds each. I may get > my 7905's working too but not sure I want to give those up just yet. > > Also - the only way I found to clean the squirrel cage blower was to take it > out and clean each fan blade by hand and with a toothbrush. The very fine > dust that makes it past the secondary filter cakes on these blades and is > very hard to scrub off - it's like concrete. Does anyone have any ideas > here? I was thinking of soaking the blower in something to loosen the dirt, > but it's unfinished metal and might rust. Any thoughts? > > Regards, > > Jay West > > --- > [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > > > From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Oct 3 11:09:56 2003 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:16 2005 Subject: Connecting Atari 810's to Vaxes... References: <012a01c389ba$f3b5b4c0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <000301c389c8$c9ca2ac0$1a02a8c0@starship1> For about 13-14 years many Atari 8bit users have been able to connect their computers directly to PC's and use the PC hard drives, floppy drives, printer ports and modem ports as peripherals through a device called the SIO2PC, this little RS232 converter connects from an Atari 8bit SIO port (Serial I/O, basically a very simplistic, early version of what is now called USB... in fact one of the patent holders of the USB is the designer of the SIO bus interface....) The SIO signals are converted to standard RS-232c signals and the other end of the interface is connected to a PC serial port, the PC runs a small program in the background where you can configure how you want to share its resources with the Atari. Now the Atari can boot directly off of a PC with a bootdisk image, you are able to load files that you download off of the internet onto the PC, you can even telnet into an Atari 8bit with certain versions of the PC-side software.... SIO2PC interfaces are sold at www.sunmark.com and there are several software packages to use with it, one of the best is Steve Tuckers PROsystem. Okay, so enough of the bringing everyone up to speed part.... the reason for the above introduction is that I recently found a discovery that in 1983 one of Atari's mainframe OPS had built the very same interface that allowed Atari 810 disk drives and 8" disk drives to hook up to a VAX through one of its Serial ports and allow a Vax users to read/write Atari DOS disks. This was an internal utility that Atari engineers and programmers used to compile their software on the Atari Vax'es, then dump the code onto standard Atari DOS diskettes so they could be tested on the computers or Master images could be made and sent to have a disk product produced from the Master. I don't know if the mailing list allows attachments, so if anyone wants a copy of this .EXE, the docs and schematic, please email me directly and I'll send you an email with the ZIP file and you can put it onto your Vax and try it out. Curt From dmabry at mich.com Fri Oct 3 11:50:08 2003 From: dmabry at mich.com (Dave Mabry) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:16 2005 Subject: Intel Programmer IPPS format In-Reply-To: <9726BA9DE867D51183B900B0D0AB85F8013E486E@INETMAIL> References: <9726BA9DE867D51183B900B0D0AB85F8013E486E@INETMAIL> Message-ID: <3F7DA8C0.7050405@mich.com> Now, as is normal for me, this is hazy, but I think I remember what you are talking about. Intel used a format they called "object module format" that had header information on each block, and several possible blocks. As I recall, the MCS48 family, due to its limited memory addressibility, used the same OMF (object module format) as the 8080. Naturally, since Intel defined it, all their tools could read and write it. IPPS was the name of the software used to read and write EPROMS, etc, using Intel's iUP-201 programmer. All that being said, I think I can help you. If you don't have anything that can read and understand Intel's OMF, I do. I have a working system that can execute IPPS. There are other utilities in the Intel operating system, ISIS-II, that can also do this. I should be able to convert your OMF file to an Intel HEX format file. Intel HEX is very common and most programmers can understand it. It is also block oriented, but ascii characters rather than pure binary. Sorry to be so wordy, but bottom line is this. (into Technicolor dream mode) If you send me your OMF file I can convert it to HEX and send it back to you. Hope that will help. Dave Robert Maxwell wrote: > This will meet the on-topic age requirement, at least... > > For programming devices like processors and EPROMS with an Intel Universal > Programmer, > a file format was used, called "IPPS." I need to program 8749 processors > from files > in IPPS format, and have no working Universal Programmer. > > The format appears to be a block-oriented binary, with a file header > identifying the > target device, and headers of indeterminate size preceding sections of > binary code. > Nobody I spoke to at Intel recognizes it. > > Does anybody remember, or have access to, documentation/data or (dreaming > in Technicolor(R)) > a utility to convert IPPS files into a less-unique format, say binary or > Intel Hex? This > would save me from having to type in hex values from an old listing to > regenerate the code. > > Help! > Bob Maxwell > Tel: (905) 792-1981 x313 > rmaxwell@atlantissi.com > > . > -- Dave Mabry dmabry@mich.com Dossin Museum Underwater Research Team From jrkeys at concentric.net Fri Oct 3 12:15:33 2003 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:16 2005 Subject: What terminal to use on Altair 8800b Message-ID: <00c701c389d1$f53f6a90$6a09dd40@oemcomputer> Anyone a good suggestion on a terminal that I can hook up to the Altair Turnkey 8800b? Thanks in advance From luc at e2t.be Fri Oct 3 12:51:00 2003 From: luc at e2t.be (Luc Vande Velde) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:16 2005 Subject: Heathkit CRT Test device. In-Reply-To: <000001c389b4$c56ed700$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: Don't do that - it can very helpfull in regenerating some old terminal CRT tubes. I am using this thing in any case for this purpose gr. Luc -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]Namens John Allain Verzonden: vrijdag 3 oktober 2003 15:31 Aan: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Onderwerp: Re: Heathkit CRT Test device. I'm probably tossing this tomorrow if there are no takers. j ----- Original Message ----- From: John Allain To: CCTalk Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2003 4:15 PM Subject: Heathkit CRT Test device. Today I picked up a "Heathkit CRT Tester and Rejuvenator IT-5230" in case. It has 5 standard socket adaptors for various tubes plus two more, including alligator clips, for the rest. Also 2 potentiometers, 4 meters, 6 switches, and 10 lights. Knowing what I do about some people on the list getting stuck with CRT's that are hard to replace I thought I would give this a try. Give me an offer for shipping and handling and it's yours, else I think it goes back in a week. John A. From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Fri Oct 3 13:04:46 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:16 2005 Subject: HP 7906 drive lives again & stuff In-Reply-To: <00af01c389b2$37cbe840$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20031003140255.00a7dec0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> > The very fine dust that makes it past the secondary filter cakes on these blades > and is very hard to scrub off - it's like concrete. Does anyone have any ideas here? Surplus ultrasonic cleaner with appropriate fluid? At 08:28 AM 10/3/03 -0500, you wrote: >After suffering a head crash on my "new" 7906, I decided I REALLY should >have taken the time to clean the filter and the blower squirrel cage and air >ducts better before using it. That was done, then the drive wouldn't seek >past load point. So I swapped all the cards in the drive card cage with a >"spares set" and now the drive is working wonderfully again, passing all >diags. It is SO nice to not rely on a single 7900 drive anymore! > >Word to the wise - lesson learned - never skimp on dissassembly/cleanup of >an old style 14" drive. Take the time to get every last piece of dust & >debris out! > >Over the next few weeks I will be cleaning, refurbing, and testing all the >other 7906 drives I have. Once I get all working that can be made to work... >I will have some known working 7906 drives available for trade, as well as >some 13037 controller boxes. Might not have spares of the 13037 pca that >goes in the host though. If anyone is interested, let me know. Keep in mind >these drives are somewhere in the neighborhood of 200 pounds each. I may get >my 7905's working too but not sure I want to give those up just yet. > >Also - the only way I found to clean the squirrel cage blower was to take it >out and clean each fan blade by hand and with a toothbrush. The very fine >dust that makes it past the secondary filter cakes on these blades and is >very hard to scrub off - it's like concrete. Does anyone have any ideas >here? I was thinking of soaking the blower in something to loosen the dirt, >but it's unfinished metal and might rust. Any thoughts? > >Regards, > >Jay West > >--- >[This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From eric at brouhaha.com Fri Oct 3 13:32:53 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:16 2005 Subject: HP-85 consumables. In-Reply-To: <009601c389af$1b8096c0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> References: <20031003061443.723C33D9DB@www.fastmail.fm> <009601c389af$1b8096c0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <4486.4.20.168.103.1065205973.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> "Jay West" wrote about the HP-85: > but, the tape cartridges can still be bought new. The HP-85 uses > QIC-40 tapes, the brand name being "DC-1000". Are you sure DC1000 cartridges will work? It's supposed to use DC100 cartridges, which are not QIC-40. I didn't think DC100, DC1000, and DC2000 cartridges were interchangeable, despite being the same physical size. But I haven't tried it. From jwest at classiccmp.org Fri Oct 3 13:45:15 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:16 2005 Subject: HP-85 consumables. References: <20031003061443.723C33D9DB@www.fastmail.fm><009601c389af$1b8096c0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <4486.4.20.168.103.1065205973.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <028301c389de$7c2bdbe0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Eric wrote.... > Are you sure DC1000 cartridges will work? It's supposed to use > DC100 cartridges, which are not QIC-40. I didn't think DC100, > DC1000, and DC2000 cartridges were interchangeable, despite being > the same physical size. But I haven't tried it. I am not sure DC1000 cartridges will work. Another list member said that what I need are QIC-40 tapes. When I looked those up on the web, the tape manufacturer said a DC1000 was their designation for QIC-40 tapes. I never said DC100, DC1000, and DC2000 cartridges were interchangeable... in fact they aren't. Now that you mention it, I don't recall if it was DC100 or DC1000 they said... I will check! Jay West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From allain at panix.com Fri Oct 3 13:45:57 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:16 2005 Subject: Heathkit CRT Test device. References: Message-ID: <008301c389de$95887940$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> >> I'm probably tossing this tomorrow if there are no takers. > Don't do that - it can very helpfull in regenerating some old > terminal CRT tubes. I am using this thing in any case for > this purpose OK, notice to list. Ya' got three weeks to claim it or same thing happens. Maybe a VCFw seller? John A. From wh.sudbrink at verizon.net Fri Oct 3 14:05:28 2003 From: wh.sudbrink at verizon.net (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:16 2005 Subject: What terminal to use on Altair 8800b In-Reply-To: <00c701c389d1$f53f6a90$6a09dd40@oemcomputer> Message-ID: > Anyone a good suggestion on a terminal that I can hook up to the Altair > Turnkey 8800b? Thanks in advance Mine came with an ADM3, purchased at the same time (on the same 1978 receipt) as the computer. Still works well. From eric at brouhaha.com Fri Oct 3 15:28:24 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:16 2005 Subject: HP-85 consumables. In-Reply-To: <028301c389de$7c2bdbe0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> References: <20031003061443.723C33D9DB@www.fastmail.fm><009601c389af$1b8096c0$033310ac@kwcorp.com><4486.4.20.168.103.1065205973.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <028301c389de$7c2bdbe0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <1027.4.20.168.103.1065212904.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Jay wrote: > I never said DC100, DC1000, and DC2000 cartridges were interchangeable... > in fact they aren't. I wasn't trying to put words in your mouth. I just was concerned that you might buy a bunch of DC1000 tapes that might not work. Some of the references I've found say that the HP-85 needs DC100, and some say DC100A. I'm not sure what the difference is, but I'm guessing that it may be the tape length, and possibly the thickness of the tape. Tape length of DC100A cartridges is 140 ft; some references incorrectly claim 307.5 ft, but that length didn't appear until the DC2060, and is much thinner tape. The DC1000 is 185 ft and the DC2000 is 205 ft. I can't find any info on the length of a DC100 (non-A) tape. I suppose it's possible that there was only DC100A, and that references without the A are just sloppy, but I wouldn't count on that either. The HP part number was 98200A, and a lot of web sites claim that the DC100A is the replacement, but I don't have any info I would considered to be definitive. One web site claims that their particular cleaning tapes can be used for DC100, DC1000, and DC2000 drives. I don't think that can necessarily be generalized to infer the same for all cleaning tapes. For example, different brands of LTO Ultrium 1 tape drives originally needed different cleaning tapes. Can the HP-85 format a completely blank tape? Many HP cartridge tape drives were not capable of doing that. I've got an HP-85 but have never tried using a tape with it. Eric From patrick at evocative.com Fri Oct 3 15:44:44 2003 From: patrick at evocative.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:16 2005 Subject: Heathkit CRT Test device. In-Reply-To: <008301c389de$95887940$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: John, I sent you a private message, but in case that didn't make it through, I'll take it. Please contact me off-list with terms. Best, Patrick > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of John Allain > Sent: Friday, October 03, 2003 11:46 AM > To: 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts' > Subject: Re: Heathkit CRT Test device. > > > >> I'm probably tossing this tomorrow if there are no takers. > > > Don't do that - it can very helpfull in regenerating some old > > terminal CRT tubes. I am using this thing in any case for > > this purpose > > OK, notice to list. Ya' got three weeks to claim it or same > thing happens. Maybe a VCFw seller? > > John A. > > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Oct 3 16:37:42 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:16 2005 Subject: HP 7906 drive lives again & stuff In-Reply-To: <00af01c389b2$37cbe840$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031003173742.007eaab0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 08:28 AM 10/3/03 -0500, you wrote: >After suffering a head crash on my "new" 7906, I decided I REALLY should >have taken the time to clean the filter and the blower squirrel cage and air >ducts better before using it. That was done, then the drive wouldn't seek >past load point. So I swapped all the cards in the drive card cage with a >"spares set" and now the drive is working wonderfully again, passing all >diags. It is SO nice to not rely on a single 7900 drive anymore! > >Word to the wise - lesson learned - never skimp on dissassembly/cleanup of >an old style 14" drive. Take the time to get every last piece of dust & >debris out! > >Over the next few weeks I will be cleaning, refurbing, and testing all the >other 7906 drives I have. Once I get all working that can be made to work... >I will have some known working 7906 drives available for trade, as well as >some 13037 controller boxes. Might not have spares of the 13037 pca that >goes in the host though. If anyone is interested, let me know. Keep in mind >these drives are somewhere in the neighborhood of 200 pounds each. I may get >my 7905's working too but not sure I want to give those up just yet. > >Also - the only way I found to clean the squirrel cage blower was to take it >out and clean each fan blade by hand and with a toothbrush. The very fine >dust that makes it past the secondary filter cakes on these blades and is >very hard to scrub off - it's like concrete. Does anyone have any ideas >here? I was thinking of soaking the blower in something to loosen the dirt, >but it's unfinished metal and might rust. Any thoughts? You might try "coil cleaner". It's used to clean air conditioning evaporator coils and readily removes built up dust and dirt. You just spray it on, let it sit for a bit then wash it off with water. It's used on bare metal in AC units so that SHOULDN'T be a problem but you might want to try it on some scrap first. The guys in the business call it "acid" but I think it's actually alkaline. Joe > >Regards, > >Jay West > >--- >[This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Oct 3 16:27:33 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:16 2005 Subject: HP cable sought In-Reply-To: <00cd01c389b3$cb643840$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031003172733.007dfdc0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Nope, but I have the punch and could use a cable too if you find an extra. Also need a cable for the PT reader but I don't remember the model number. Joe At 08:39 AM 10/3/03 -0500, you wrote: >Looking for the cable that goes from an HP2100/1000 cpu to a 2895B paper >tape punch. I can fabricate one from spare cables, but I'd rather get an >original. Anyone have one to trade? > >Jay West > >--- >[This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Oct 3 16:21:10 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:16 2005 Subject: PDT 11/150 In-Reply-To: <006c01c38972$baeae860$0200000a@xeon> from "Bill Machacek" at Oct 2, 3 11:53:40 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 529 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20031003/e4435c17/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Oct 3 16:22:33 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:16 2005 Subject: HP-85 consumables. In-Reply-To: <009601c389af$1b8096c0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> from "Jay West" at Oct 3, 3 08:06:06 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 213 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20031003/23605a69/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Oct 3 16:25:25 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:16 2005 Subject: Key needed for Altair 8800b In-Reply-To: from "Bill Sudbrink" at Oct 3, 3 09:30:03 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 901 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20031003/76a59fbc/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Oct 3 16:27:56 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:16 2005 Subject: Mac SE/30 revival In-Reply-To: from "Jason McBrien" at Oct 3, 3 10:03:24 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 980 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20031003/07d05138/attachment.ksh From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Oct 3 17:17:21 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:16 2005 Subject: PDT 11/150 In-Reply-To: <006c01c38972$baeae860$0200000a@xeon> from "Bill Machacek" at Oct 02, 2003 11:53:40 PM Message-ID: <200310032217.h93MHLpv004923@onyx.spiritone.com> Bill Machacek wrote: > I just rescued a Digital PDT 11/150 from going to the scarp yard. > Now that I have it, what have I got? I also got a number of 8" disks > and a VT100. Both units are very heavy units. I am not a DEC person, > but I figured these were pretty old units and I just couldn't stand the > thought of them going to the trash heap. What did you get? Basically a little PDP-11 that is mainly intended to be used in an office type of setting. I'm almost possitive that the 8" floppies should contain some version of RT-11, as I don't think anything else was used on the PDT-11/150. It's actually a very good find, they aren't that common. Somewhere I've got a PDF of a quick reference manual for the PDT-11/150 if you need it. Zane From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Oct 3 17:19:57 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:16 2005 Subject: Garage sale, DEC 3000/500 $50, HSZ40 $25, ... In-Reply-To: <3F7C572E.6010300@regenstrief.org> from "Gunther Schadow" at Oct 02, 2003 11:49:50 AM Message-ID: <200310032219.h93MJvUu004978@onyx.spiritone.com> > Am I crazy to sell a DEC 3000/500 server (desk side) for $50? I > believe it's got all the RAM it can fit and disk in and lots SCSI > plugs out. My HSZ40s go for $25 a piece. My HP9000K400 with 2xDDS2 > drives and 30 GB (?) RAID array and HP Terminal all in one rack go > for $100. > > Am I crazy or just fed up about stuff taking space in my garage? I can't really comment on the HP (though it might be a little low). The DEC3000/500 sounds about right. The HSZ40's are old enough to probably be reasonable. Zane From waltje at pdp11.nl Fri Oct 3 17:50:40 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:16 2005 Subject: Strange Qbus cards: Data Systems Design and Marconi Message-ID: Hiyas, One of the results of today's 400mi drive is a box of Qbus cards that once were in custom PDP-11 based systems in use at various locations at Marconi. Most are the usual suspects found in such systems, but there's also a bunch of weird ones: - two Data Systems Design cards.. half-height, some RAM, some PROMs and a fair bit of logic. One 16Mhz xtal. One connector (28 pins or so) - a bunch of what look to be custom-made boards, with the Marconi label and typing. M-12 and such. Does anyone know more about these? Cheers, Fred -- Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist Visit the VAXlab Project at http://www.pdp11.nl/VAXlab/ Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Sunnyvale, CA, USA From jpero at sympatico.ca Fri Oct 3 13:52:52 2003 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:16 2005 Subject: HP-85 consumables. In-Reply-To: References: <009601c389af$1b8096c0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> from "Jay West" at Oct 3, 3 08:06:06 am Message-ID: <20031003225128.BHNZ23759.tomts14-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > > No idea on the paper, I'd like to know. > > Well, thermal fax paper should work, but it'll be too wide (it's ideal > for the full-width HP thermal printers like the 9866). Feel like cutting > a roll down? > > -tony This is how cutting a width to customers' specs for paper rolls even the largest ones that weighs tonnes. Oh, I haven't seen how this type of cutter is like and how it's done on a rolled paper this large. Except I did see large chop machine slice off thick pile like 1 foot tall of paper to size or part out one into sections for bookmaking etc. Cheers, Wizard From waltje at pdp11.nl Fri Oct 3 18:04:23 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:16 2005 Subject: Looking for DEC DLV11J cab kits Message-ID: Hiyas, Looking for the cab kits for the DLV11J (4-port serial) cards, so I can set up a small LSI-11 based system. I already have a small Q/Q backplane (thx, Luc !) and will hook up a nice, small switching PSU to it... together with a cabkit and general CPU cabkit panel, this will make a nice "this is a small PDP-11 system" demo. (especially if I can find the guy who did the Qbus IDE disk driver card, as I have plenty 2G 2.5" IDE notebook disks to glue to such cards :) Cheers, Fred -- Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist Visit the VAXlab Project at http://www.pdp11.nl/VAXlab/ Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Sunnyvale, CA, USA From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Oct 3 18:03:56 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:16 2005 Subject: Strange Qbus cards: Data Systems Design and Marconi In-Reply-To: from "Fred N. van Kempen" at Oct 04, 2003 12:50:40 AM Message-ID: <200310032303.h93N3uTP005913@onyx.spiritone.com> > - two Data Systems Design cards.. half-height, some RAM, some PROMs > and a fair bit of logic. One 16Mhz xtal. One connector (28 pins > or so) Just a WAG, could these be interface boards for a DSD800 disk unit? Like I said, just a guess. Zane From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Oct 3 18:21:38 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:16 2005 Subject: Looking for DEC DLV11J cab kits In-Reply-To: from "Fred N. van Kempen" at Oct 04, 2003 01:04:23 AM Message-ID: <200310032321.h93NLcoa006594@onyx.spiritone.com> > Looking for the cab kits for the DLV11J (4-port serial) cards, Good luck! I had trouble getting one out of a dealer as I recall (at least I think I finally got *one* for my /73. > so I can set up a small LSI-11 based system. I already have a > small Q/Q backplane (thx, Luc !) and will hook up a nice, small Sweet, I've always wanted to get my hands on one of these. > (especially if I can find the guy who did the Qbus IDE disk > driver card, as I have plenty 2G 2.5" IDE notebook disks to > glue to such cards :) Is this the Russian board? If so I've got the plans for it on my FTP site. You might have better luck finding the necessary parts that those of us in the US. A SCSI controller an a nice 3.5" 1" high drive is still pretty small. Or maybe a SCSI-to-IDE bridge could let you use a Laptop drive. Zane From ian_primus at yahoo.com Fri Oct 3 18:55:56 2003 From: ian_primus at yahoo.com (Ian Primus) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:16 2005 Subject: Mac SE/30 revival In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <21791196-F5FD-11D7-91F9-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> I eventually did get the proper tool, and things do definitely go easier with the correct tool, but I still have two of my little homemade ones here, they come in handy when I forget where I put the real one. Also, considering that the compact macs only have two screws to remove that need that long screwdriver, you can get by with the homemade tool pretty well, since the important part (the driver bit) is still technically the proper tool and fits the screw, the only disadvantage is that you don't have a great deal of leverage with a pencil... Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com On Friday, October 3, 2003, at 10:03 AM, Jason McBrien wrote: > That is absolutely ingenious, but if you're gonna be doing some serious > vintage computer hacking you better get yourself a toolkit. I picked > up a > big pack of security bits with a ratchet driver for about $6.00 from > Big > Lots, a discount/closeout chain. I aquired a long T15 driver from > somewhere > (don't remember :) but Parts Express has a really nice one for $7.00. > http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Product_ID=10523&DID=7 > Also check CyberGuys, they have good, cheap tools, as well as the most > resonable price on new SCSI and GPIB cables I've seen anywhere. > > >> As for getting the computer open, I made my own tool. Here is what you >> will need: >> >> a Bic Stic pen (the white round ones) >> a new pencil (hex shaped type) >> a T-15 driver bit >> >> Take the pen, and pull out the ink cartridge and the black plug at the >> end, leaving you with a hollow plastic tube. Now, sharpen the end of >> the pencil a little, and shove it into the pen barrel until it is >> firmly lodged. Then, shove the T-15 driver bit in the other end of the >> pen barrel. What you have now is a rather kludgey tool that you can >> use >> to get the screws out from inside the handle. It _does_ work, and I >> have opened many a mac this way. >> >> Good luck! >> >> Ian Primus >> ian_primus@yahoo.com >> >> > From eric at brouhaha.com Fri Oct 3 19:08:49 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:16 2005 Subject: Strange Qbus cards: Data Systems Design and Marconi In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2330.4.20.168.103.1065226129.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> "Fred N. van Kempen" asks about: > - two Data Systems Design cards.. half-height, some RAM, some PROMs > and a fair bit of logic. One 16Mhz xtal. One connector (28 pins > or so) Most likely one of their floppy subsystem controllers, possibly for a DSD 440. It's software-compatible with an RX02, but you have to have their drive box as the cable interface isn't compatible with anything else. From dbetz at xlisper.mv.com Fri Oct 3 19:11:27 2003 From: dbetz at xlisper.mv.com (David Betz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:16 2005 Subject: PDT 11/150 In-Reply-To: <200310032217.h93MHLpv004923@onyx.spiritone.com> Message-ID: <4BEDE382-F5FF-11D7-BC87-0003937B82DA@xlisper.mv.com> I have two PDT-11/150s. I bought one as a home computer back when I worked at DEC and picked up a second when a friend (who also bought one while he worked at DEC) was cleaning out his basement. I have all of the original documentation including the original RT-11 version 4 distribution disks. If you need me to look anything up I'd be happy to. On Friday, October 3, 2003, at 06:17 PM, Zane H. Healy wrote: > Bill Machacek wrote: >> I just rescued a Digital PDT 11/150 from going to the scarp yard. >> Now that I have it, what have I got? I also got a number of 8" disks >> and a VT100. Both units are very heavy units. I am not a DEC person, >> but I figured these were pretty old units and I just couldn't stand >> the >> thought of them going to the trash heap. > > What did you get? Basically a little PDP-11 that is mainly intended > to be > used in an office type of setting. I'm almost possitive that the 8" > floppies should contain some version of RT-11, as I don't think > anything > else was used on the PDT-11/150. It's actually a very good find, they > aren't that common. Somewhere I've got a PDF of a quick reference > manual > for the PDT-11/150 if you need it. > > Zane > From ian_primus at yahoo.com Fri Oct 3 19:24:36 2003 From: ian_primus at yahoo.com (Ian Primus) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:16 2005 Subject: ASR33 Teletype interfacing Message-ID: <223808C2-F601-11D7-91F9-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> I have been attempting to get my ASR33 teletype connected to something and communicating, but so far I have not been successful. I have built the interface here : http://www.daedalus.co.nz/~don/computing/20mahack.html , but it didn't seem to work at all. I connected the teletype to a PC clone running Linux. I set the baud rate to 110 and tested it with a DEC VT100 set to 110 first, to make sure that the PC was communicating over the serial port properly. Then, I plugged in the teletype in place of the terminal with the little kludged adapter, crossed my fingers and turned to knob to the left. The teletype just rattled, not printing anything, and nothing from the keyboard printed either. Then, I turned the knob to the right. The teletype works fine, just as it had before. I can type on the paper, punch tape, etc. Before, when I was just testing the teletype without connecting it to anything, I got the exact same results - with the knob to the left, it just rattles, almost like "Break" is held down. When the knob is turned to the right, it works like a very heavy, loud, electric typewriter, and I can punch tape. On my teletype, the knob isn't labeled, but I am assuming that the knob must be Line/Off/Local. Does anyone have any ideas on how I can get this to talk to something? I don't know a lot about teletypes, but I downloaded the wiring diagrams from pdp8.net, and have been trying to figure it out. I think I am connecting it to the correct terminals on the barrier strip, based on what the wiring diagrams say, but then again, I might have something wrong. One problem is that I don't know what the Teletype is _supposed_ to do. I have never seen one operational, so I don't know if the constant rattleing if not connected is normal or not. There might be something wrong with it that I don't know, but chances are, it's just something I am doing wrong. I got suggestions to try using an old Apple Serial card, or an original IBM XT card to connect the teletype to, but I have neither. I have several Super Serial Card II's, as well as several early clone XT serial cards, but I don't think that they will work. At this point, I don't really care what I connect the teletype to, I would just like to get it to do something, and verify that it works. Eventually, I would like to build an RS232 adapter that would allow me to use the teletype on PC clone hardware, Pr1me hardware, whatever. I understand that the teletype uses a 20mA current loop, but I'm afraid that I don't really know anything about current loop technology. Anyone have some schematics for a true 20mA to RS232 adapter? Something tells me that this little kludge I found on the 'net probably isn't the best or most reliable way to do this. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks! Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Oct 3 19:26:30 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:16 2005 Subject: Help? AMI S6800 computer/Flex Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031003202630.007bed70@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Several weeks ago I picked up an early 6800 based computer that came from an original member of the Home Brew Computer Club. The computer is based on S6800 prototyping boards that were purchased as part of a group purchase through the HBCC. I just finished posting a webpage about the computer and what little I know about it along with pictures of chassis and all the cards. Please take a look and let me know if you can shed any light on the computer or it's history or the group purchase. BTW this computer ran Flex and I did get one disk with it containing Flex. Joe From ian_primus at yahoo.com Fri Oct 3 19:31:39 2003 From: ian_primus at yahoo.com (Ian Primus) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:17 2005 Subject: HP-85 consumables. In-Reply-To: <20031003225128.BHNZ23759.tomts14-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: <1EA5CF56-F602-11D7-91F9-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> On Friday, October 3, 2003, at 02:52 PM, jpero@sympatico.ca wrote: >>> No idea on the paper, I'd like to know. >> >> Well, thermal fax paper should work, but it'll be too wide (it's ideal >> for the full-width HP thermal printers like the 9866). Feel like >> cutting >> a roll down? >> >> -tony > > This is how cutting a width to customers' specs for paper rolls even > the largest ones that weighs tonnes. > > Oh, I haven't seen how this type of cutter is like and how it's done > on a rolled paper this large. Except I did see large chop machine > slice off thick pile like 1 foot tall of paper to size or part out > one into sections for bookmaking etc. > > Cheers, > > Wizard > We have one of those machines in at work. It can cut an entire ream of paper at once, and I had asked about cutting a roll of paper once (for teletype tape) and they said that it wouldn't be a problem, provided that the roll wasn't huge, and that the core of the roll was cardboard or paper (not metal). If you bought some thermal fax paper, you should be able to find some place that can trim it for you (maybe Kinkos's?). Most fax paper is in pretty small rolls of about 2 inches in diameter, so they should be able to do it. Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Oct 3 19:44:20 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:17 2005 Subject: Strange Qbus cards: Data Systems Design and Marconi In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031003204420.007d4d20@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Fred, I can't tell you much about them but I recently picked up about 350 8" floppy disks that came from Marconi. They were used on PDP-11s that was part of circuit board test stations. That's where the disks that I sent to Al came from. He's reading them and is supposed to archive the usefull software. The computers were stripped before I got there but I found some of the circuit cards in the board scrap. A few were DEC but most were custom made. I didn't take any of the custom ones and I don't remember if they were made by Marconi or not. They were DSD hard drives on the systems. One of the things that Al (and others) wanted were the drivers for the DSD drives. I found four or five of the drives but no interface cards. That was the DSD drives that I was asking about here on the list several weeks ago. FWIW some of the disks had a Marconi address somewhere in California. In fact, I think it might have been Sunnyvale. I suspect that you got part of the same systems. Joe At 12:50 AM 10/4/03 +0200, you wrote: >Hiyas, > >One of the results of today's 400mi drive is a box of Qbus cards that >once were in custom PDP-11 based systems in use at various locations >at Marconi. Most are the usual suspects found in such systems, but >there's also a bunch of weird ones: > >- two Data Systems Design cards.. half-height, some RAM, some PROMs > and a fair bit of logic. One 16Mhz xtal. One connector (28 pins > or so) > >- a bunch of what look to be custom-made boards, with the Marconi > label and typing. M-12 and such. > >Does anyone know more about these? > >Cheers, > Fred >-- >Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist >Visit the VAXlab Project at http://www.pdp11.nl/VAXlab/ >Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ >Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Sunnyvale, CA, USA > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Oct 3 19:46:46 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:17 2005 Subject: HP-85 consumables. In-Reply-To: <20031003225128.BHNZ23759.tomts14-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> References: <009601c389af$1b8096c0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031003204646.007b2c40@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 06:52 PM 10/3/03 +0000, you wrote: >> > No idea on the paper, I'd like to know. >> >> Well, thermal fax paper should work, but it'll be too wide (it's ideal >> for the full-width HP thermal printers like the 9866). Feel like cutting >> a roll down? >> >> -tony > >This is how cutting a width to customers' specs for paper rolls even >the largest ones that weighs tonnes. ????? Just buy the normal consumer sized rolls (~4" diameter) and cut them with a bandsaw. I know a guy that's cut down plenty of it for use on a HP calculator. It's uses paper about 1 1/4" wide and 1" diameter. Joe > >Oh, I haven't seen how this type of cutter is like and how it's done >on a rolled paper this large. Except I did see large chop machine >slice off thick pile like 1 foot tall of paper to size or part out >one into sections for bookmaking etc. > >Cheers, > >Wizard > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Oct 3 19:49:40 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:17 2005 Subject: Strange Qbus cards: Data Systems Design and Marconi In-Reply-To: <2330.4.20.168.103.1065226129.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031003204940.007d3d70@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 05:08 PM 10/3/03 -0700, you wrote: >"Fred N. van Kempen" asks about: >> - two Data Systems Design cards.. half-height, some RAM, some PROMs >> and a fair bit of logic. One 16Mhz xtal. One connector (28 pins >> or so) > >Most likely one of their floppy subsystem controllers, possibly for >a DSD 440. It's software-compatible with an RX02, but you have to have >their drive box as the cable interface isn't compatible with anything >else. I just scrapped several DSD drives. I asked about them here on the list and while there was lots of discussion, no one seemed interested in the drives. They didn't go to waste though. The floppy drives are spares for my Intel systems and I'm saving the 8" hard drives for use in Compupros and the like. Joe > > From r_a_feldman at hotmail.com Fri Oct 3 20:11:38 2003 From: r_a_feldman at hotmail.com (Robert Feldman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:17 2005 Subject: DEC DE450-CA Network cards Message-ID: I came across three DEC Etherworks Turbo PCI 10 Combo cards (DE450-CA) (vintage 1995, so not quite OT) with manuals and software. Free for postage (one or all) from Chicago. Reply to r_a_feldman@hotmail.com. _________________________________________________________________ Share your photos without swamping your Inbox. Get Hotmail Extra Storage today! http://join.msn.com/?PAGE=features/es From lbickley at bickleywest.com Fri Oct 3 16:44:45 2003 From: lbickley at bickleywest.com (Lyle Bickley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:17 2005 Subject: HP-85 consumables. References: <20031003061443.723C33D9DB@www.fastmail.fm><009601c389af$1b8096c0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <4486.4.20.168.103.1065205973.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <007401c389f7$910e8080$4daa3a41@VAIO> I've got a couple of HP-85's and have found that HP98200A or DC100A tapes are the only ones to work reliably. I tried some "Savin" DC100A look-alikes which "almost" worked - but apparently had the wrong magnetic coating. [Also, you have to make sure you HP-85 cartridge drive is O.K. - which usually means you have "refurbished" its capstan with a new rubber and/or plastic sleeve.] Regarding paper - I have occasionally found the thermal paper (HP 82931A) available on eBay. I have also found some "lurking" amongst the POS thermal paper supplies of stores/warehouses - but it is NOT easy to find, being long discontinued. You can substitute POS thermal paper if you get the right size (I'm in the Sierra's right now and not near my office to measure the proper size - it just has to be very slightly less width that the printer guides). Cheers, Lyle Bickley Consulting West Inc. Mountain View, CA 94040 650-428-0621 "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero" ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Smith" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Friday, October 03, 2003 11:32 AM Subject: Re: HP-85 consumables. > "Jay West" wrote about the HP-85: > > but, the tape cartridges can still be bought new. The HP-85 uses > > QIC-40 tapes, the brand name being "DC-1000". > > Are you sure DC1000 cartridges will work? It's supposed to use > DC100 cartridges, which are not QIC-40. I didn't think DC100, > DC1000, and DC2000 cartridges were interchangeable, despite being > the same physical size. But I haven't tried it. From jpl15 at panix.com Fri Oct 3 20:51:19 2003 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:17 2005 Subject: ASR33 Teletype interfacing In-Reply-To: <223808C2-F601-11D7-91F9-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> References: <223808C2-F601-11D7-91F9-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> Message-ID: HWat you call 'rattling' sounds suspiciously like "running open" - the selector magnets in the TTY have no current applied across them, hence the machine is always 'spacing', or rather, all the internal parts are rotating, rather than waiting quietly for the next pulse. I don't see in the Daedalus site exactly how the 20 (or 60) millamps of current is going to be supplied from a regular RS232 port... Your 33 has a "local loop supply" giving current to the selector magnets when you have the function knob in LOCAL position - then, as you say, it becomes a heavy, noisy, accessorized typewriter. When you switch the knob to LINE, it is expecting to be supplied with "loop supply current" from it's communication line. This current, normally 'on', is broken by the pulses representing the data, and thus the selector magnets operate the mechanism to print each character as it comes from the line. You really oughta should get a copy of the ASR33 manuals - they're pretty common, but first you need to somehow supply loop current to your TTY... this requires the right kind of interface - especially if you hook it up to a PC to test, otherwise, you're liable to drive quite a high voltage back into the PC and kill it dead - while the ASR33 just sits there and laughs. Or 'rattles', as the case may be... Fear not! You are quite close to getting it working... and if it types, punches, and reads back tape sucessfully, then the machine sounds like it's in pretty good shape and ready to work. Cheers John From TRASH3 at splab.cas.neu.edu Fri Oct 3 21:01:48 2003 From: TRASH3 at splab.cas.neu.edu (TRASH3@splab.cas.neu.edu) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:17 2005 Subject: Strange Qbus cards: Data Systems Design and Marconi Message-ID: <031003220148.10f60@splab.cas.neu.edu> The DSD 880 Qbus subsystem used two different cards, the 8832 and the 8836. The connector near the handle is 26 pins. For the 8836, the 16Mhz crystal is in location G9, with the model number of the board on the edge above that, for instance 808836-05 rev K. There are socketed 24 pin dips in row e, and headers for programming in D4 and F5. There isn't really any special software for basic use, but if you want the double sided use of the floppies, then you have to either use their drivers, or patch your own. The same goes for utilizing more than the 2-RL02 emulation feature, you have to patch for more logical units. The board has a bootstrap for either the floppy or the hard drive. I could look up what is in the 8832, but it is probably pretty close. Also, the dual height board for the floppy-only DSD440 subsystem is similar, but I have the board for that at work. I still use a couple of the DSD880s. The system came with a diagnostic floppy which complemented the front panel, but I haven't used it for a long time. We used to use the DSD880 along with a VT103 and 11/23 in test equipment that a company I previously worked for sold. Hope that helps, let me know if you (or somebody else) needs/wants more info on the 880 series. Joe Heck, K1LBG From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Oct 3 20:58:24 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:17 2005 Subject: ASR33 Teletype interfacing In-Reply-To: <223808C2-F601-11D7-91F9-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> from "Ian Primus" at Oct 3, 3 08:24:36 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1764 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20031004/01181bdc/attachment.ksh From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org Fri Oct 3 21:30:34 2003 From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:17 2005 Subject: Original IBM PC, Apple Macintosh cube, interest? Message-ID: <3F7E30CA.5080204@aurora.regenstrief.org> Hi, I keep seeing original IBM PCs and Apple Macintosh cubes and although it's tempting to snatch one for myself this small stuff isn't really my collector's specialty and I have not enogh room anyway. But thought that may be some people here think it's interesting enough to be saved. Since this stuff is shippable and if there is real big interest I might go through the hassle and pick such things up ship them. regards, -Gunther From jwest at classiccmp.org Fri Oct 3 22:50:01 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:17 2005 Subject: hp terminal pictures? Message-ID: <002301c38a2a$97089f10$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> I'm looking for a particular HP terminal. Don't know the model, but I know what it looks like. I know it is a 2600 series terminal, something like a 2621, 2622, 2623, 2624, 2627, 2640, 2644, 2645... but not sure which one. I'm not having any luck googling for pictures of HP terminals so I can find the one I'm looking for. Anyone know where there's pics? Jay West From liste at artware.qc.ca Fri Oct 3 23:12:08 2003 From: liste at artware.qc.ca (liste@artware.qc.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:17 2005 Subject: Mac SE/30 revived! woot! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Thanks to Ian Primus, who pointed me to http://www.biwa.ne.jp/~shamada/fullmac/repairEng.html. I removed, contacts with "control cleaner" and reseated all the SIMMs (ROM and RAM). Half of the RAM looked like an upgrade (they have 9 rather then 8 chips and said AZen Memory Upgrade on them). So I only put in the other half, but put them into the wrong bank. I was rewarded by a rising, cheary tune but it wouldn't get past the zebra screen. Ooops. Pull it apart again, notice that I'd put RAM into wrong bank. But *all* the RAM back. Get the happy-mac-BONG. Now it boots up into system 7.5.5 perfectly. Woot woot! Now I go hunt for an SE PDS ethernet card. (Anyone have a spare?) -Philip From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Oct 3 23:22:35 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:17 2005 Subject: hp terminal pictures? In-Reply-To: <002301c38a2a$97089f10$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031004002235.007dc5d0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 10:50 PM 10/3/03 -0500, you wrote: >I'm looking for a particular HP terminal. Don't know the model, but I know >what it looks like. I know it is a 2600 series terminal, something like a >2621, 2622, 2623, 2624, 2627, 2640, 2644, 2645... but not sure which one. > >I'm not having any luck googling for pictures of HP terminals so I can find >the one I'm looking for. Anyone know where there's pics? I can take some. Joe > >Jay West > > From cb at mythtech.net Fri Oct 3 23:44:04 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:17 2005 Subject: Mac SE/30 revived! woot! Message-ID: >Now I go hunt for an SE PDS ethernet card. (Anyone have a spare?) I believe the SE and the SE/30 use a different PDS slot ethernet card. The SE/30 card is compatible with the IIsi, but I do not think it is compatible with the SE. However, that doesn't mean you can just buy an ethernet card for the IIsi and use it in the SE/30. The IIsi also supports NuBus ethernet cards via a PDS to NuBus adaptor card. That style can't be used in the SE/30. So double the cards before you buy yourself the wrong card. (and BTW: I've seen the SE/30 cards on ebay for around $10.00) -chris From cb at mythtech.net Fri Oct 3 23:45:34 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:17 2005 Subject: Original IBM PC, Apple Macintosh cube, interest? Message-ID: >Hi, I keep seeing original IBM PCs and Apple Macintosh cubes and >although it's tempting to snatch one for myself this small stuff >isn't really my collector's specialty and I have not enogh room >anyway. But thought that may be some people here think it's >interesting enough to be saved. Since this stuff is shippable >and if there is real big interest I might go through the hassle >and pick such things up ship them. If you are talking about the G4 Cube, then I would want one if the price is right. Are you talking about those, or are you refering to the old classic Macs that have the built in 9 inch black and white screen? (the old Macs would be more the era of the IBM PC) -chris From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org Fri Oct 3 23:50:22 2003 From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:17 2005 Subject: Original IBM PC, Apple Macintosh cube, interest? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3F7E518E.9060603@aurora.regenstrief.org> Well, I had at least 4 people asking me individually what the Max cubes go for these days. And I do not know the answer. I could dig them out somewhere (that is, last week I could, now it may be too late ... but I might find one again.) Interesting, noone wanted the original IBM PC, even though it probably has a "Color Graphics Adapter" (woa! with 40 characters per line!) and the Mac was just B/W right? So, what would people pay for a Mac or an original PC? -Gunther From cb at mythtech.net Sat Oct 4 00:09:02 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:17 2005 Subject: Original IBM PC, Apple Macintosh cube, interest? Message-ID: >Well, I had at least 4 people asking me individually what the Max >cubes go for these days. And I do not know the answer. If you are talking about the original Mac (the 128k Mac), then I believe they are pushing the $100 mark if they are complete with keyboard and mouse. Software, manuals, and guided tour audio tapes will push the price higher. I'm not a pricing expert, that just seems to be what I've seen them hover around on ebay and other trading lists. Of course, sometimes they go much lower... I picked on up not long ago for $25 shipped to me. I only bought it because it was offered on a list for a few months and no one wanted to buy it at all, and the owner was threatening to throw it out. -chris From nico at farumdata.dk Sat Oct 4 00:59:40 2003 From: nico at farumdata.dk (Nico de Jong) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:17 2005 Subject: Sv: ASR33 Teletype interfacing Message-ID: <001a01c38a3c$b38f7520$2301a8c0@win98.farumdata.dk> >I have been attempting to get my ASR33 teletype connected to something >and communicating, but so far I have not been successful. I have built >the interface here : You'd probably better off in a ham related group. For them, it is a very easy thing Nico (OZ1BMC) From pat at purdueriots.com Sat Oct 4 01:43:41 2003 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:17 2005 Subject: Configuring a CMD CQD-220/TM Message-ID: <200310040143.41561.pat@purdueriots.com> I've got a CMD CQD-220/TM that I'm trying to get set up. I've placed it into a VAXstation 3200, and it shows up when I do a 'show qbus' and 'show dev' at the SRM prompt. At some point I was able to find a list of jumper settings on the board, and instructions to access the config menus on the board via the SRM console, but alas, no more. Does anyone have configuration info for this board? -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ From vance at neurotica.com Sat Oct 4 01:58:46 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:17 2005 Subject: AlphaServer 4000/4100 Message-ID: I was perusing some old DEC brochures, and I read that the AlphaServer 4000 can be field upgraded to an AlphaServer 4100. How does one go about doing that? Peace... Sridhar From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Sat Oct 4 03:19:35 2003 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:17 2005 Subject: Looking for DEC DLV11J cab kits In-Reply-To: ; from waltje@pdp11.nl on Sat, Oct 04, 2003 at 01:04:23 CEST References: Message-ID: <20031004101935.G81944@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 2003.10.04 01:04 Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > Looking for the cab kits for the DLV11J (4-port serial) cards, Cable, connectors, soldering Iron? Here is the pinout: Pin 1 UART Clk (in or out) 2 Signal ground 3 Transmit Data + 4 Transmit Data - 5 Signal Ground 6 INDEX (no pin) 7 Receive Data - 8 Receive Data + 9 Signal Ground 10 +12V through fuse when using -KA (current loop) Connect pins 8, 3, and 2 for your standard 3 wire RS-232 cable. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From chejmw at acsu.buffalo.edu Sat Oct 4 03:54:42 2003 From: chejmw at acsu.buffalo.edu (James M. Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:17 2005 Subject: Sv: ASR33 Teletype interfacing References: <001a01c38a3c$b38f7520$2301a8c0@win98.farumdata.dk> Message-ID: <3F7E8AD2.79A7AFDE@acsu.buffalo.edu> Hello Fellow Listers, I am indeed new to the list, but also very glad I joined it/found out about it. I have 1 each 11/23 Dec system, and 1 each 11/24 system. The 23 system is setup with 2 pairs of RX-02 floppy drives, the 24 is setup with a second source HD system, with a removable disk pack, I think 10 MB, not sure. Along with a large plethora of micro-computers of the S-100 and desk-top type. Used to be a field applications engineer doing hardware installs and setups of Dec equipment. My memory tends to wander all over the place but here is an attempt at the subject. For the ASR-33 interface The DLV11 boards had a strapping arrangement to connect to the the ASR-33. First a few questions. What is the state of the TTY before you connect it to the DEC system? As in when in "LOCAL" mode can you type and see the characters that you are typing? When you look at the cabling from the ASR-33 how many wires are in this cable, this determines if it is setup for current loop operation, or if it has an internal RS-232 or RS-488 interface (different setups). Next if you have it connected correctly to the DLV11 is it indeed on the first I/O port on the board? That would would be the "Old Master Console" for the system administrator. If you could answer those questions I may be able to guide you towards getting the TTY connected. Jim WB2FCN http://eshop1.chem.buffalo.edu Nico de Jong wrote: > > >I have been attempting to get my ASR33 teletype connected to something > >and communicating, but so far I have not been successful. I have built > >the interface here : > > You'd probably better off in a ham related group. For them, it is a very easy thing > > Nico (OZ1BMC) From rhahm at nycap.rr.com Sat Oct 4 07:12:45 2003 From: rhahm at nycap.rr.com (RHahm) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:17 2005 Subject: HP-85 Tape source Message-ID: Here is a source for new tapes. They cost about $20 each. If anyone has a better source let me know. http://www.athana.com/html/minicart.html From jrkeys at concentric.net Sat Oct 4 08:46:15 2003 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:17 2005 Subject: Found the HP 41CV Message-ID: <000701c38a7d$e2b95e10$920cdd40@oemcomputer> Yesterday I went back to the thrift were I got the manuals for a hp 41CV and under the front counter there was the 41CV in it's carrying case. It was missing the battery so I got it for $2.99. From fmc at reanimators.org Sat Oct 4 09:01:15 2003 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:17 2005 Subject: hp terminal pictures? In-Reply-To: <002301c38a2a$97089f10$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> (Jay West's message of "Fri, 3 Oct 2003 22:50:01 -0500") References: <002301c38a2a$97089f10$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <200310041401.h94E1FhR016647@daemonweed.reanimators.org> "Jay West" wrote: > I'm looking for a particular HP terminal. Don't know the model, but I know > what it looks like. I know it is a 2600 series terminal, something like a > 2621, 2622, 2623, 2624, 2627, 2640, 2644, 2645... but not sure which one. Does the terminal body look like E.T.'s head? If so, that's a 262X. Does it have slots with plug-in cards in its base? If so, that's a 264X. If you can describe the feature set that may help narrow it down further. -Frank McConnell From waltje at pdp11.nl Sat Oct 4 09:33:01 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:17 2005 Subject: PDT 11/150 In-Reply-To: <200310030900.35001.jcwren@jcwren.com> Message-ID: JC writes: > This is how addictions start, Bill. Oh yes, this *sure* is a good way to get dragged into it.. --f From rhudson at cnonline.net Sat Oct 4 09:33:46 2003 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:17 2005 Subject: Found the HP 41CV In-Reply-To: <000701c38a7d$e2b95e10$920cdd40@oemcomputer> Message-ID: AAARRRRGGGHHH!!!!! 2.99!!!!! :^) cool On Saturday, October 4, 2003, at 08:46 AM, Keys wrote: > Yesterday I went back to the thrift were I got the manuals for a hp > 41CV and > under the front counter there was the 41CV in it's carrying case. It > was > missing the battery so I got it for $2.99. > > From allain at panix.com Sat Oct 4 09:46:40 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:17 2005 Subject: hp terminal pictures? References: <002301c38a2a$97089f10$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <007301c38a86$527d4ce0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> 262x and 264x'es are pretty different. See http://www.digidome.nl/hewlett_packard.htm Here's a good search... 44 results: http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=%2B%22hewlett+packard%22%2B2647a and some of us can supply further pictures from our collections. Does yours do graphics? Have tape drives? What makes the one you're looking for distinct? John A. From esharpe at uswest.net Sat Oct 4 11:15:41 2003 From: esharpe at uswest.net (Ed Sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:17 2005 Subject: hp terminal pictures? References: <002301c38a2a$97089f10$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> <200310041401.h94E1FhR016647@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: <002101c38a92$c223f2e0$79f39bac@aoldsl.net> THEN THEE WAS THE EARLY ONE THAT WAS JUST A REPAINTED DATAPOINT TERMINAL I HAD AN 8008 PROCESSOR INSIDE. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frank McConnell" To: Sent: Saturday, October 04, 2003 7:01 AM Subject: Re: hp terminal pictures? > "Jay West" wrote: > > I'm looking for a particular HP terminal. Don't know the model, but I know > > what it looks like. I know it is a 2600 series terminal, something like a > > 2621, 2622, 2623, 2624, 2627, 2640, 2644, 2645... but not sure which one. > > Does the terminal body look like E.T.'s head? If so, that's a 262X. > > Does it have slots with plug-in cards in its base? If so, that's a > 264X. > > If you can describe the feature set that may help narrow it down > further. > > -Frank McConnell > > From waltje at pdp11.nl Sat Oct 4 10:19:42 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:17 2005 Subject: PDT 11/150 In-Reply-To: <006c01c38972$baeae860$0200000a@xeon> Message-ID: On Thu, 2 Oct 2003, Bill Machacek wrote: > I just rescued a Digital PDT 11/150 from going to the > scarp yard. Now that I have it, what have I got? I also > got a number of 8" disks and a VT100. As JC already pointed out, this could start you into a very bad addiction.... best thing to do is to get rid of it as soon as possible... give it to someone else, who is already addicted... no harm done... (hint: me! me! me! ;-) > Both units are very heavy units. Ohyeah... it can hurt your back, too... we wouldn't want THAT to happen, now would we? *evil grin* --me -- Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist Visit the VAXlab Project at http://www.pdp11.nl/VAXlab/ Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Sunnyvale, CA, USA From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Sat Oct 4 10:52:37 2003 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:17 2005 Subject: Original IBM PC, Apple Macintosh cube, interest? In-Reply-To: <3F7E518E.9060603@aurora.regenstrief.org> Message-ID: <006a01c38a8f$88d56a30$947ba8c0@p933> The original Macs (that just say "Macintosh" on the rear label) are worth anywhere from near nothing to a couple of hundred eBay Dollars depending on condition and completeness. IBM PCs are worth maybe half of that, again depending on condition and completeness. The original 64K motherboard PCs are worth a bit more. If it has 4116s, 0-64K silk-screened on the board and a black power supply and it boots to BASIC 1.0 then you've got an original 64K PC. With the Guide to Operations, BASIC and DOS manuals they are worth more. With the original packaging more still. Good luck! Erik Klein www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum The Vintage Computer Form -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Gunther Schadow Sent: Friday, October 03, 2003 9:50 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Original IBM PC, Apple Macintosh cube, interest? Well, I had at least 4 people asking me individually what the Max cubes go for these days. And I do not know the answer. I could dig them out somewhere (that is, last week I could, now it may be too late ... but I might find one again.) Interesting, noone wanted the original IBM PC, even though it probably has a "Color Graphics Adapter" (woa! with 40 characters per line!) and the Mac was just B/W right? So, what would people pay for a Mac or an original PC? -Gunther From jpl15 at panix.com Sat Oct 4 11:24:17 2003 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:17 2005 Subject: Sv: ASR33 Teletype interfacing In-Reply-To: <001a01c38a3c$b38f7520$2301a8c0@win98.farumdata.dk> References: <001a01c38a3c$b38f7520$2301a8c0@win98.farumdata.dk> Message-ID: On Sat, 4 Oct 2003, Nico de Jong wrote: > > You'd probably better off in a ham related group. For them, it is a very easy thing Welll.... that *may* be true over there in Sunny Scandanavia, but here on this side of the Big Salt Groundplane - most Hams would think that "ASR33" is the model number of some new 3-band handheld transciver... or maybe the grid-square of the latest obscure DX Island... ;} Truthfully, I can't think of a better place on the Net to get accurate (and experienced) info on legacy data communication devices than here, or *maybe* over on the Greenkeys maillist - although the topic there tends to top out (chronologically) at the Model 28. Sadly. a lot of Hams here in 'Murikka wouldn't know which end of a hot soldering iron was the one that burns you when you grab it... Cheers (and FB OM TNX FR NICE QSO) John KB6SCO From vcf at siconic.com Sat Oct 4 11:29:06 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:17 2005 Subject: HP-85 Tape source In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 4 Oct 2003, RHahm wrote: > Here is a source for new tapes. They cost about $20 each. If anyone has a > better source let me know. > > http://www.athana.com/html/minicart.html Wow! These guys carry all sorts of old media, like rigid disk packs, 5.25" and 8" floppies, 1/2" reel-to-reel, etc. Very cool! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Oct 4 11:45:13 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:17 2005 Subject: Original IBM PC, Apple Macintosh cube, interest? In-Reply-To: <3F7E518E.9060603@aurora.regenstrief.org> from "Gunther Schadow" at Oct 3, 3 11:50:22 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 365 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20031004/5a5213ef/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Oct 4 11:43:12 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:17 2005 Subject: HP-85 consumables. In-Reply-To: <007401c389f7$910e8080$4daa3a41@VAIO> from "Lyle Bickley" at Oct 3, 3 02:44:45 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1213 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20031004/f4372523/attachment.ksh From nico at farumdata.dk Sat Oct 4 12:39:50 2003 From: nico at farumdata.dk (Nico de Jong) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:17 2005 Subject: Sv: ASR33 Teletype interfacing References: <001a01c38a3c$b38f7520$2301a8c0@win98.farumdata.dk> Message-ID: <001001c38a9e$84bdc140$2101a8c0@farumdata.dk> > > > > > You'd probably better off in a ham related group. For them, it is a very easy thing > > Welll.... that *may* be true over there in Sunny Scandanavia, but here > on this side of the Big Salt Groundplane - most Hams would think that > "ASR33" is the model number of some new 3-band handheld transciver... or > maybe the grid-square of the latest obscure DX Island... ;} > > > John KB6SCO > > Well, it was just an idea, but I've seen some reactions on your problem. So, I'll just sit in the corner, and be embarrassed.. :-) Nico From jpero at sympatico.ca Sat Oct 4 08:59:16 2003 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:17 2005 Subject: HP-85 consumables. In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20031003204646.007b2c40@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <20031003225128.BHNZ23759.tomts14-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: <20031004175748.NQTQ1736.tomts12-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > ????? Just buy the normal consumer sized rolls (~4" diameter) and cut > them with a bandsaw. I know a guy that's cut down plenty of it for use on a > HP calculator. It's uses paper about 1 1/4" wide and 1" diameter. > > Joe Saw (any method) that paper roll? This will leave edge raggies that little barely attached bits will tear off and clog up the mechanicals. YUK! I'm still curious how they slice 10' tall rolls used for large production like newspapers etc without tearing up big way, less wastages etc. I thought pushing through a roll with a knife like those tall ream of paper chop machine wastes one side of parted rolls bec it's "ruined" by going lopsided. Cheers, Wizard From dbwood at kc.rr.com Sat Oct 4 14:11:58 2003 From: dbwood at kc.rr.com (Douglas Wood) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:17 2005 Subject: HP-85 consumables. References: <20031003225128.BHNZ23759.tomts14-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> <20031004175748.NQTQ1736.tomts12-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: <174701c38aab$62c4a100$6501a8c0@kc.rr.com> They cut the paper as it comes off the presses, just before it's rolled onto the cores. Douglas Wood Software Engineer dbwood@kc.rr.com ICQ#: 143841506 Home of the EPICIS Development System for the PIC http://epicis.piclist.com ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, October 04, 2003 8:59 AM Subject: Re: HP-85 consumables. > > ????? Just buy the normal consumer sized rolls (~4" diameter) and cut > > them with a bandsaw. I know a guy that's cut down plenty of it for use on a > > HP calculator. It's uses paper about 1 1/4" wide and 1" diameter. > > > > Joe > > Saw (any method) that paper roll? This will leave edge raggies that > little barely attached bits will tear off and clog up the > mechanicals. YUK! > > I'm still curious how they slice 10' tall rolls used for large > production like newspapers etc without tearing up big way, less > wastages etc. I thought pushing through a roll with a knife like > those tall ream of paper chop machine wastes one side of parted rolls > bec it's "ruined" by going lopsided. > > Cheers, > > Wizard From trash_tmp at poczta.onet.pl Sat Oct 4 14:32:01 2003 From: trash_tmp at poczta.onet.pl (trashcan man) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:17 2005 Subject: sanyo lat-200a. In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20030930172029.007b21e0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20030929161145.007dc320@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <20030928200802.GA387@trashcan.ds7> <20030929095146.GA1945@trashcan.ds7> <3.0.6.32.20030929161145.007dc320@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20030930172029.007b21e0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <20031004193201.GA2248@trashcan.ds7> thanks for info, everyone. :-) On Tue, Sep 30, 2003 at 05:20:29PM -0400, Joe wrote: [..] > obvious.* BUT even if it has a standard ISA connector you can not just plug > it into a standard motherboard that already has CPU and memory. If you do, > you will be connecting the outputs of the memory, CPU etc on one board to > the outputs of memory, CPU etc of the other board. If any of the outputs > are not in the same logic state (hi or Lo), and it's a near certainty that > they're not, then they will try to force the other outputs and WILL burn up > something. [..] that's bad. this hardware went through hands of _very_ incompetent people. > details of the card that you have. If it's a CPU or memory card, don't try > to use it in a computer with a motherboard! If it's an I/O card then it's > probably safe to use with a motherboard. it's 'all in one' - cpu, memory, i/o. [..] > BTW where are you located? I have some extra backplanes here (Florida). > I can probably send you one. thanks, but it's not a good idea. first, as noted above, i doubt if it's working; i'll try to power it up anyway, when i have some more time. second, transport to poland would cost too much; one can find this kind of equipment relatively easily, and passive thing seems hard to fry, anyway. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Oct 4 14:17:31 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:17 2005 Subject: HP-85 consumables. In-Reply-To: <20031004175748.NQTQ1736.tomts12-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> References: <3.0.6.32.20031003204646.007b2c40@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <20031003225128.BHNZ23759.tomts14-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031004151731.007dab10@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 01:59 PM 10/4/03 +0000, you wrote: >> ????? Just buy the normal consumer sized rolls (~4" diameter) and cut >> them with a bandsaw. I know a guy that's cut down plenty of it for use on a >> HP calculator. It's uses paper about 1 1/4" wide and 1" diameter. >> >> Joe > >Saw (any method) that paper roll? This will leave edge raggies that >little barely attached bits will tear off and clog up the >mechanicals. YUK! I think he sanded the edges when he finished. But whatever he did worked for him. Joe From geoffr at zipcon.net Sat Oct 4 15:21:31 2003 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:17 2005 Subject: Mac SE/30 revived! woot! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.2.20031004132109.04a36b50@mail.zipcon.net> > >Now I go hunt for an SE PDS ethernet card. (Anyone have a spare?) I may have an old SE/30 ethernet card... From swtpc6800 at comcast.net Sat Oct 4 15:56:23 2003 From: swtpc6800 at comcast.net (Michael Holley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:17 2005 Subject: Need 307.2 kHz crystals Message-ID: <005d01c38ab9$f8dad660$9865fea9@hslckirkland.org> I am looking for a supply of 307.2 kHz crystals to restore some TV Typewriters. I need 2 crystals and someone else needs one or two. I have not been able to locate any. I can get them made at International Crystal Manufacturing (ICM) for about $55 each with a 6 week lead time. http://www.icmfg.com/crystal_hc51u.html I would like to find some at a better price. I can make a small PCB with a 1.8432 MHz oscillator and a divide by 6 IC. This would cost about $75 total for 6 items, but I would like to find a crystal. I am adding the baud rate option to the CT-S serial interface, the default was a fixed 110 baud. http://www.swtpc.com/mholley/CT_1024/CT1024_Index.htm Michael Holley www.swtpc.com/mholley From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Sat Oct 4 15:59:59 2003 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:17 2005 Subject: 9 track magnetic tape Message-ID: <3F7F34CF.9040102@jetnet.ab.ca> Found while surfing, 9 track tape for sale. http://www.tinaja.com/bargains/sbmisc.asp From geoffr at zipcon.net Sat Oct 4 16:09:14 2003 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:17 2005 Subject: Need 307.2 kHz crystals In-Reply-To: <005d01c38ab9$f8dad660$9865fea9@hslckirkland.org> References: <005d01c38ab9$f8dad660$9865fea9@hslckirkland.org> Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.2.20031004140510.04168b60@mail.zipcon.net> At 01:56 PM 10/4/03, you wrote: >I am looking for a supply of 307.2 kHz crystals to restore some TV >Typewriters. I need 2 crystals and someone else needs one or two. I have not >been able to locate any. http://www.keytronics-uk.co.uk/ their price is 1.5 pounds each. From marvin at rain.org Sat Oct 4 16:10:03 2003 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:17 2005 Subject: Need 307.2 kHz crystals References: <005d01c38ab9$f8dad660$9865fea9@hslckirkland.org> Message-ID: <3F7F372B.48738494@rain.org> The price you are quoting for getting crystals made seem outrageous although the crystals I've had made were in the MHz range. Cal Crystal at http://www.calcrystal.com/ is where I've had my crystals made and they are located in Anaheim, California. Michael Holley wrote: > > I am looking for a supply of 307.2 kHz crystals to restore some TV > Typewriters. I need 2 crystals and someone else needs one or two. I have not > been able to locate any. > > I can get them made at International Crystal Manufacturing (ICM) for about > $55 each with a 6 week lead time. > http://www.icmfg.com/crystal_hc51u.html > > I would like to find some at a better price. I can make a small PCB with a > 1.8432 MHz oscillator and a divide by 6 IC. This would cost about $75 total > for 6 items, but I would like to find a crystal. > > I am adding the baud rate option to the CT-S serial interface, the default > was a fixed 110 baud. > http://www.swtpc.com/mholley/CT_1024/CT1024_Index.htm > > Michael Holley > www.swtpc.com/mholley From nampcjr at yahoo.com Sat Oct 4 16:13:12 2003 From: nampcjr at yahoo.com (Brian Heise) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:17 2005 Subject: Ref needed for PCjr ROM cartridge Kit Message-ID: <20031004211312.96177.qmail@web42004.mail.yahoo.com> I obtained a nice supply of PCjr ROM cartridge Kits from Integrity Software. The carts were in a box in the corner of their warehouse, and was all they had left of their past enterprise with them. I looked in a Nov 1988 issue of the Eugene PCjr Club Newsletter and there is mention of the cartridge being used for backup. One thing missing from my shipment, though, were the docs needed for the soldering to change the settings on the physical PCB after putting on an EPROM. The title of the doc was "PCjr ROM Cartridge Kit Technical Reference Manual" and had a file name of RC-TECH.REF . If anyone happens to have this, write reply so I can get these puppies working!! Much appreciation! Brian --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search From jpl15 at panix.com Sat Oct 4 18:02:43 2003 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:17 2005 Subject: 9 track magnetic tape In-Reply-To: <3F7F34CF.9040102@jetnet.ab.ca> References: <3F7F34CF.9040102@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: On Sat, 4 Oct 2003, ben franchuk wrote: > Found while surfing, 9 track tape for sale. > http://www.tinaja.com/bargains/sbmisc.asp > > Don should stick to writing 'Cookbooks' etc... $7 for a 7" reel??? I don't think so... O, I see: $50 for ten - plus shipping from Arizona. Read Da Fine Print: 1200' reels. Oooopsss... Cheers John From kittstr at access-4-free.com Sat Oct 4 18:23:08 2003 From: kittstr at access-4-free.com (Andrew Strouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:17 2005 Subject: Fat (512K) Mac Revival? References: Message-ID: <013e01c38ad2$c5bcdd00$77444a43@amscomputer> The recent discussion about reviving a Mac SE/30 reminded me that I have a "fat mac" in my closet collecting dust. I found it after a yard sale a few years ago. ( I like to go late and see what finds I can get for nothing because the people just want the stuff out of their house.) I remember when I plugged it in, nothing happened. No sounds, lights, bars, patterns, sad/happy macs, etc. Does anyone have any suggestions of what to do to attempt to get it running. Is it worth it? (I'd like to play with it but could I find another one that works for less than it will take to fix?) It came with a large box of disks, and external drive, mouse and keyboard, so it seemed like a complete system, except that it doesn't work. Thanks in advance. Andrew Strouse ( kittstr@access-4-free.com ) From cb at mythtech.net Sat Oct 4 19:05:05 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:18 2005 Subject: 9 track magnetic tape Message-ID: > Don should stick to writing 'Cookbooks' etc... $7 for a 7" reel??? I >don't think so... O, I see: $50 for ten - plus shipping from Arizona. And to think, I'm asking $10 OBO for 24 of them ($18.00 counting shipping) -chris From jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to Sat Oct 4 19:41:03 2003 From: jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:18 2005 Subject: Strange Qbus cards: Data Systems Design and Marconi References: <031003220148.10f60@splab.cas.neu.edu> Message-ID: <3F7F689F.E9D9C23@compsys.to> >TRASH3@splab.cas.neu.edu wrote: > The DSD 880 Qbus subsystem used two different cards, the 8832 and the > 8836. The connector near the handle is 26 pins. For the 8836, the > 16Mhz crystal is in location G9, with the model number of the board on > the edge above that, for instance 808836-05 rev K. There are socketed > 24 pin dips in row e, and headers for programming in D4 and F5. > > There isn't really any special software for basic use, but if you want > the double sided use of the floppies, then you have to either use > their drivers, or patch your own. The same goes for utilizing more than > the 2-RL02 emulation feature, you have to patch for more logical units. Jerome Fine replies: The V4.00 distribution of the DEC DY.MAC device driver has code (which is incorrect - I guess that DEC never tested it) for the RX03 floppy which I presume was supposed to be the double-sided RX02. The code was removed for V5.00 of RT-11. I presume that DEC had decided at that point to never release an RX03 drive of their own. Note that the DSD 880 controller is able to handle ONLY 18 bit addresses with regard to the DMA silo which is also the problem with the DEC RX02 drive. It is possible to program a bounce buffer in RT-11 to get around that problem. I don't know what other operating systems do to handle that problem. The RL02 emulation by the DSD 880 does not need a patch as much as a SYSGEN in RT-11. It the user wishes, the DL(X).SYS device driver can be SYSGENed to handle up to 4 RL02 drives. But the distributed DL(X).SYS in all of the RT-11 distributions will handle only 2 RL02 drives. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From tothwolf at concentric.net Sat Oct 4 20:21:22 2003 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:18 2005 Subject: HP-85 consumables. In-Reply-To: <028301c389de$7c2bdbe0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> References: <20031003061443.723C33D9DB@www.fastmail.fm><009601c389af$1b8096c0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <4486.4.20.168.103.1065205973.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <028301c389de$7c2bdbe0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 3 Oct 2003, Jay West wrote: > Eric wrote.... > > > Are you sure DC1000 cartridges will work? It's supposed to use DC100 > > cartridges, which are not QIC-40. I didn't think DC100, DC1000, and > > DC2000 cartridges were interchangeable, despite being the same > > physical size. But I haven't tried it. > > I am not sure DC1000 cartridges will work. Another list member said that > what I need are QIC-40 tapes. When I looked those up on the web, the > tape manufacturer said a DC1000 was their designation for QIC-40 tapes. > > I never said DC100, DC1000, and DC2000 cartridges were > interchangeable... in fact they aren't. > > Now that you mention it, I don't recall if it was DC100 or DC1000 they > said... I will check! The HP85A I had used DC100A tapes. Sadly, I sold the computer back in 1995 for about $250. I guess I'll find another one someday... -Toth From tothwolf at concentric.net Sat Oct 4 20:25:54 2003 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:18 2005 Subject: HP 7906 drive lives again & stuff In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20031003173742.007eaab0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20031003173742.007eaab0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 3 Oct 2003, Joe wrote: > You might try "coil cleaner". It's used to clean air conditioning > evaporator coils and readily removes built up dust and dirt. You just > spray it on, let it sit for a bit then wash it off with water. It's used > on bare metal in AC units so that SHOULDN'T be a problem but you might > want to try it on some scrap first. The guys in the business call it > "acid" but I think it's actually alkaline. The stuff I used to have around was an acid. It was bad enough that the fumes from a leaking bottle etched/frosted the windows in the service van... -Toth From vcf at siconic.com Sat Oct 4 21:26:26 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:18 2005 Subject: 9 track magnetic tape In-Reply-To: <3F7F34CF.9040102@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: On Sat, 4 Oct 2003, ben franchuk wrote: > Found while surfing, 9 track tape for sale. > http://www.tinaja.com/bargains/sbmisc.asp That's Don Lancaster's website. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From lbickley at bickleywest.com Sun Oct 5 11:19:28 2003 From: lbickley at bickleywest.com (Lyle Bickley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:18 2005 Subject: HP-85 consumables. In-Reply-To: <1027.4.20.168.103.1065212904.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> References: <20031003061443.723C33D9DB@www.fastmail.fm> <028301c389de$7c2bdbe0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <1027.4.20.168.103.1065212904.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <200310050919.29446.lbickley@bickleywest.com> On Friday 03 October 2003 13:28, Eric Smith wrote: > Jay wrote: ---snip--- > The HP part number was 98200A, and a lot of web sites claim that the > DC100A is the replacement, but I don't have any info I would considered > to be definitive. As I think I stated in a prior Email, the HP 98200A was the original cartridge used by HP for the 85 - however the DC100A (I've never seen a DC100) is an identical tape and works fine as a replacement. I have two restored HP-85's and the DC100A tapes work perfectly. ---snip--- > Can the HP-85 format a completely blank tape? Many HP cartridge tape > drives were not capable of doing that. I've got an HP-85 but have > never tried using a tape with it. > > Eric Yes, completely blank tape can be formated with the ERASETAPE command. This creates a "blank directory" on the tape. BTW: CAT dislplays a tape directory, STORE "filename" saves a program, LOAD "filename" loads a program from tape, and PURGE "filename" deletes a program from tape. To retension a tape use CTAPE. Cheers, Lyle -- Lyle Bickley Bickley Consulting West Inc. Mountain View, CA 94040 "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero" From waltje at pdp11.nl Sun Oct 5 11:38:49 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:18 2005 Subject: Available (NL) : Apple Mac shtuff Message-ID: Hiyas, One of my customers finally saw The Light, and will now allow me to free up some of the storage space we have there. Aside from me being quite busy chucking stuff out into the dumpster, there's also a bunch of Apple thingies from their DTP department that can now be dumped. Obviously, I will not get caught playing with fruity "computers" during *my* lifetime, soo.. available are: - Mac II SE - Mac IIcx - Mac something (couldnt read; too dark there) I also know there are several Powermac (what? can we eat that?) boxes up that shelf, just couldnt be bothered climbing up there in the dark, any more details will have to wait till later, when I first grab a lite 'fore going up there. Since shipping fruit internationally can be quite expensive (gotta keep it cool 'n stuff) we'd prefer to have it picked up by local people (meaning, Dutchies) or people silly enough to drive a LONG time for a bag of this fruit.. Cheers, Fred -- Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist Visit the VAXlab Project at http://www.pdp11.nl/VAXlab/ Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Sunnyvale, CA, USA From alhartman at yahoo.com Sun Oct 5 12:09:13 2003 From: alhartman at yahoo.com (Al Hartman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:18 2005 Subject: Fat (512K) Mac Revival? In-Reply-To: <200310051700.h95H03H5032906@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20031005170913.58590.qmail@web13401.mail.yahoo.com> It could be something as simple as a bad PRAM battery. There's a little door in the upper back, that has a battery in it. Open it and see if there's a battery in there. If it hasn't exploded... You probably can try replacing that as a start. Next would be the Power Supply/Analog board. But, yes... You should be able to buy a replacement cheaper than fixing that unit. Though, you might find buyers for the parts to help fund that. Regards, Al Hartman > From: "Andrew Strouse" > > The recent discussion about reviving a Mac SE/30 > reminded me that I have a "fat mac" in my closet > collecting dust. I found it after a yard sale a > few years ago. ( I like to go late and see what > finds I can get for nothing because the people just > want the stuff out of their house.) I remember > when I plugged it in, nothing happened. No sounds, > lights, bars, patterns, sad/happy macs, etc. Does > anyone have any suggestions of what to do to > attempt to get it running. Is it worth it? (I'd > like to play with it but could I find another one > that works for less than it will take to fix?) > It came with a large box of disks, and external > drive, mouse and keyboard, so it seemed like a > complete system, except that it doesn't work. > > Thanks in advance. > > Andrew Strouse >( kittstr@access-4-free.com ) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Oct 5 12:24:53 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:18 2005 Subject: Morely Electronics Teletext Adapter. Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 953 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20031005/940a9403/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Oct 5 12:13:44 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:18 2005 Subject: Fat (512K) Mac Revival? In-Reply-To: <013e01c38ad2$c5bcdd00$77444a43@amscomputer> from "Andrew Strouse" at Oct 4, 3 07:23:08 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 838 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20031005/3ff07f8c/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Oct 5 12:20:46 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:18 2005 Subject: Acorn Econet Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1365 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20031005/d594f119/attachment.ksh From CCTalk at catcorner.org Sun Oct 5 15:14:21 2003 From: CCTalk at catcorner.org (Kelly Leavitt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:18 2005 Subject: Free TRS-80 Model III Message-ID: <3572C311B2DB4C418DAB189F1F190799B8A6@mail.catcorner.org> Free TRS-80 Model III. All you have to do is come to Northwest New Jersey to pick it up. It has two disk drives. No sftware. I don't know if it works, but at this price you can't beat it. No trades needed, no cash, just some time. Kelly From rhudson at cnonline.net Sun Oct 5 16:26:15 2003 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:18 2005 Subject: Help! need 400k/800k Mac os 6 or 7 diskettes! Message-ID: <8D22A1F0-F77A-11D7-9AA9-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> Hey anyone? I don't have any machine that can write these. If anyone can send me just an 800K floppy with the Mac OS6 or OS7 cd rom drive that'l work too. I have a CD with OS7 (probably) on it. I want to get a MAC SE working again. I have scsi CDrom drive and apples software cdrom. Thanks! ron. From donm at cts.com Sun Oct 5 16:28:47 2003 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:18 2005 Subject: Fat (512K) Mac Revival? In-Reply-To: <013e01c38ad2$c5bcdd00$77444a43@amscomputer> Message-ID: On Sat, 4 Oct 2003, Andrew Strouse wrote: > The recent discussion about reviving a Mac SE/30 reminded me that I have a > "fat mac" in my closet collecting dust. I found it after a yard sale a few > years ago. ( I like to go late and see what finds I can get for nothing > because the people just want the stuff out of their house.) I remember when > I plugged it in, nothing happened. No sounds, lights, bars, patterns, > sad/happy macs, etc. Does anyone have any suggestions of what to do to > attempt to get it running. Is it worth it? (I'd like to play with it but > could I find another one that works for less than it will take to fix?) It > came with a large box of disks, and external drive, mouse and keyboard, so > it seemed like a complete system, except that it doesn't work. Check whether there is any DC voltage out of the power supply. If not, there is a fuse buried in the power supply that is likely blown. Start your trouble shooting from there. - don > Thanks in advance. > > Andrew Strouse > ( kittstr@access-4-free.com ) > > From cb at mythtech.net Sun Oct 5 18:03:00 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:18 2005 Subject: Help! need 400k/800k Mac os 6 or 7 diskettes! Message-ID: >I don't have any machine that can write these. > >If anyone can send me just an 800K floppy with the Mac OS6 or OS7 >cd rom drive that'l work too. I have a CD with OS7 (probably) on it. > >I want to get a MAC SE working again. I have scsi CDrom drive and >apples software cdrom. If the SE has 4 MB of ram, you can connect an your SCSI CD ROM drive to the SCSI port on the back, and boot from your OS 7 CD (assuming it is an Apple OS 7 installer and thus a bootable CD). To do so put the CD in the drive, then turn on the Mac and hold the Command-Option-Shift-Delete to force the SE to boot from the external drive. If you can't get that working, let me know, I'll send you a system 6 install set on 800K disks. System 7 doesn't fit on 800K disks so that's right out. Unless you double check that you need 800K disks. Later Mac SE models had 1.4 drives in them (if the Mac is labeled as Mac SE SuperDrive or Mac SE FDHD then it can use 1.4 disks) -chris From rhudson at cnonline.net Sun Oct 5 18:20:03 2003 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:18 2005 Subject: Help! need 400k/800k Mac os 6 or 7 diskettes! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <728E1910-F78A-11D7-9719-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> On Sunday, October 5, 2003, at 06:03 PM, chris wrote: >> I don't have any machine that can write these. >> >> If anyone can send me just an 800K floppy with the Mac OS6 or OS7 >> cd rom drive that'l work too. I have a CD with OS7 (probably) on it. >> >> I want to get a MAC SE working again. I have scsi CDrom drive and >> apples software cdrom. > > If the SE has 4 MB of ram, you can connect an your SCSI CD ROM drive to > the SCSI port on the back, and boot from your OS 7 CD (assuming it is > an > Apple OS 7 installer and thus a bootable CD). To do so put the CD in > the > drive, then turn on the Mac and hold the Command-Option-Shift-Delete to > force the SE to boot from the external drive. Ok, I get a blinking floppy disk "?" in the middle of the screen. I guess the CD rom I have is not bootable after all. (it came from a 2 disk pack marked "Apple Software" / "Claris Software" ) My iBook won't read the CD. My SE want's for format any 1.44 floppy, and my iBook won't mount any 400/800mb floppy. :^) Home address: Ron Hudson 29300 E 65th St. Blue Springs MO, 64014 Thanks a lot! > > If you can't get that working, let me know, I'll send you a system 6 > install set on 800K disks. System 7 doesn't fit on 800K disks so that's > right out. Unless you double check that you need 800K disks. Later Mac > SE > models had 1.4 drives in them (if the Mac is labeled as Mac SE > SuperDrive > or Mac SE FDHD then it can use 1.4 disks) > > -chris > > > From freddyboomboom at comcast.net Sun Oct 5 18:39:17 2003 From: freddyboomboom at comcast.net (Andrew Prince) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:18 2005 Subject: Help! need 400k/800k Mac os 6 or 7 diskettes! In-Reply-To: <728E1910-F78A-11D7-9719-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> Message-ID: <000101c38b99$e4fed930$6c7ba8c0@freddyboomboom> http://www.info.apple.com/support/oldersoftwarelist.html You can download several older system software disk images, 6.0.3, 6.0.5, 6.0.8, 7.0, 7.0.1, etc... Your iBook won't write an 800k floppy? Hmmm... Is the floppy an actual 800k floppy, or a 1.44m floppy? Let me know if the download is successful... Another source: http://home.earthlink.net/~gamba2/bootdisks.html Gamba's boot disks for Macs... http://home.earthlink.net/~gamba2/syslist.html Gamba's System Software for Macs... You might also want to visit http://w3.trib.com/~dwood/oldmac.shtml and see what other info you can dig up. Good Luck! If this doesn't help you enough, let us know... TTFN Andrew > -----Original Message----- > Subject: Re: Help! need 400k/800k Mac os 6 or 7 diskettes! > On Sunday, October 5, 2003, at 06:03 PM, chris wrote: > >> > >> If anyone can send me just an 800K floppy with the Mac OS6 or OS7 > >> cd rom drive that'l work too. I have a CD with OS7 > (probably) on it. > >> > > Ok, I get a blinking floppy disk "?" in the middle of the screen. I > guess the CD rom I > have is not bootable after all. > > (it came from a 2 disk pack marked "Apple Software" / "Claris > Software" > ) > > My iBook won't read the CD. My SE want's for format any 1.44 floppy, > and my iBook > won't mount any 400/800mb floppy. > > :^) > Thanks a lot! > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Oct 5 18:32:11 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:18 2005 Subject: Fat (512K) Mac Revival? In-Reply-To: from "Don Maslin" at Oct 5, 3 02:28:47 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 815 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20031006/b2edeaad/attachment.ksh From jrkeys at concentric.net Sun Oct 5 19:43:36 2003 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:18 2005 Subject: Used Atari 2600 Game Cartridge goes for over $70 Message-ID: <019201c38ba2$e1d71d40$100ddd40@oemcomputer> Gamer collectors seem to over spend TOO! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3049474935 From rhudson at cnonline.net Sun Oct 5 19:59:47 2003 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:18 2005 Subject: Help! need 400k/800k Mac os 6 or 7 diskettes! In-Reply-To: <000101c38b99$e4fed930$6c7ba8c0@freddyboomboom> Message-ID: <61AA6280-F798-11D7-9719-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> On Sunday, October 5, 2003, at 06:39 PM, Andrew Prince wrote: > http://www.info.apple.com/support/oldersoftwarelist.html > > You can download several older system software disk images, 6.0.3, > 6.0.5, > 6.0.8, 7.0, 7.0.1, etc... > > Your iBook won't write an 800k floppy? Hmmm... Is the floppy an actual > 800k > floppy, or a 1.44m floppy? 1.44m USB floppy > > Let me know if the download is successful... I seem to be able to download, now if only one of the images is a bootable cdrom! > > Another source: http://home.earthlink.net/~gamba2/bootdisks.html > Gamba's > boot disks for Macs... > > http://home.earthlink.net/~gamba2/syslist.html Gamba's System Software > for > Macs... > > You might also want to visit http://w3.trib.com/~dwood/oldmac.shtml > and see > what other info you can dig up. > > > Good Luck! > > If this doesn't help you enough, let us know... > > TTFN > Andrew > >> -----Original Message----- >> Subject: Re: Help! need 400k/800k Mac os 6 or 7 diskettes! >> On Sunday, October 5, 2003, at 06:03 PM, chris wrote: >>>> >>>> If anyone can send me just an 800K floppy with the Mac OS6 or OS7 >>>> cd rom drive that'l work too. I have a CD with OS7 >> (probably) on it. >>>> >> >> Ok, I get a blinking floppy disk "?" in the middle of the screen. I >> guess the CD rom I >> have is not bootable after all. >> >> (it came from a 2 disk pack marked "Apple Software" / "Claris >> Software" >> ) >> >> My iBook won't read the CD. My SE want's for format any 1.44 floppy, >> and my iBook >> won't mount any 400/800mb floppy. >> >> :^) >> Thanks a lot! >> > > From cb at mythtech.net Sun Oct 5 20:04:57 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:18 2005 Subject: Help! need 400k/800k Mac os 6 or 7 diskettes! Message-ID: >Ok, I get a blinking floppy disk "?" in the middle of the screen. I >guess the CD rom I >have is not bootable after all. > >(it came from a 2 disk pack marked "Apple Software" / "Claris Software" Try Command-Option-Shift-Tab and see if that works. However, there is a good chance that it isn't a bootable CD >My iBook won't read the CD. My SE want's for format any 1.44 floppy, >and my iBook >won't mount any 400/800mb floppy. I'll make up a set of System 6 install disks tomorrow. Send me a mailing address off list. -chris From cb at mythtech.net Sun Oct 5 20:06:05 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:18 2005 Subject: Help! need 400k/800k Mac os 6 or 7 diskettes! Message-ID: >Your iBook won't write an 800k floppy? Hmmm... Is the floppy an actual 800k >floppy, or a 1.44m floppy? Apple stopped having the drives read and write 400 and 800 k disks a while ago. -chris From teoz at neo.rr.com Sun Oct 5 20:25:17 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:18 2005 Subject: Used Atari 2600 Game Cartridge goes for over $70 References: <019201c38ba2$e1d71d40$100ddd40@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <001801c38ba8$b3d8c3c0$3d7ca418@neo.rr.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Keys" To: "cctech@classiccmp" Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2003 8:43 PM Subject: Used Atari 2600 Game Cartridge goes for over $70 > Gamer collectors seem to over spend TOO! > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3049474935 Serious collectors will pay top dollar for the last few pieces needed to complete their collection, so this isnt a big deal. Other collectors will just download the rom and put it on a cart to play on a real atari 2600, while the casual gamer will just play it on an emulator. Most of the "rare" 2600 games suck anyway, its just something to put in your collection case and talk about at shows with other collectors. From curt at atarimuseum.com Sun Oct 5 21:28:08 2003 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:18 2005 Subject: Used Atari 2600 Game Cartridge goes for over $70 References: <019201c38ba2$e1d71d40$100ddd40@oemcomputer> <001801c38ba8$b3d8c3c0$3d7ca418@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: <002001c38bb1$7b5b2930$1a02a8c0@starship1> Actually Chase the Chuckwagon is (well... was) considered to be one the "holey grails" of collecting and used to fetch upwards of $300-$500 several years ago I recall one or two going for as high as $1000 at one point, they are a little more common in collecting circles and quite frankly, a cartridge of that quality label going for only $70 is actually a steal. Around $100-$125 is the going rate Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "TeoZ" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2003 9:25 PM Subject: Re: Used Atari 2600 Game Cartridge goes for over $70 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Keys" > To: "cctech@classiccmp" > Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2003 8:43 PM > Subject: Used Atari 2600 Game Cartridge goes for over $70 > > > > Gamer collectors seem to over spend TOO! > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3049474935 > > Serious collectors will pay top dollar for the last few pieces needed to > complete their collection, so this isnt a big deal. > Other collectors will just download the rom and put it on a cart to play on > a real atari 2600, while the casual gamer will just play it on an emulator. > Most of the "rare" 2600 games suck anyway, its just something to put in > your collection case and talk about at shows with other collectors. > > > From rhudson at cnonline.net Sun Oct 5 21:46:31 2003 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:18 2005 Subject: Help! need 400k/800k Mac os 6 or 7 diskettes! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4A87BB40-F7A7-11D7-9719-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> > > I'll make up a set of System 6 install disks tomorrow. Send me a > mailing > address off list. > > -chris > > > > OOps I already sent it onlist... :^) Ron Hudson 29300 E 65th St. Blue Springs MO 64014 From netsurfer_x1 at fastmailbox.net Sun Oct 5 21:51:33 2003 From: netsurfer_x1 at fastmailbox.net (David Vohs) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:18 2005 Subject: HP-85 consumables, part 2. Message-ID: <20031006025133.00854370EA@www.fastmail.fm> Anyone know how wide the thermal paper is for the HP-85's printer? Is it 3 & 1/8", or is it wider? -- David Vohs netsurfer_x1@fastmailbox.net -- http://www.fastmail.fm - A fast, anti-spam email service. From curt at atarimuseum.com Sun Oct 5 21:59:35 2003 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:18 2005 Subject: Whats the big deal with the Bigboard II ??? References: <019201c38ba2$e1d71d40$100ddd40@oemcomputer> <001801c38ba8$b3d8c3c0$3d7ca418@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: <002f01c38bb5$e01611b0$1a02a8c0@starship1> Hi, Can someone fill me in on all the interest? I just recently won an auction on Ebay, primarily I wanted just the cabinet with its 8" disk drives and power supply so I could install an 8" controller inside of it that allows Atari 8bits using the SIO bus to use 8" disk drives. Well as a bonus the auction came with the Big Board II inside of the cabinet, I couldn't tell from the photo and figured yeah it was some kind of single board computer, but since winning the auction I've received 5 emails inquiring and wanting to buy it from me, so tell me what the story is behind this board please. Curt From teoz at neo.rr.com Sun Oct 5 22:03:40 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:18 2005 Subject: Used Atari 2600 Game Cartridge goes for over $70 References: <019201c38ba2$e1d71d40$100ddd40@oemcomputer> <001801c38ba8$b3d8c3c0$3d7ca418@neo.rr.com> <002001c38bb1$7b5b2930$1a02a8c0@starship1> Message-ID: <000801c38bb6$76814d40$3d7ca418@neo.rr.com> Its (almost) funny how much people will pay for an item when they have money burning a hole in their pockets, and how much they will let things go for when they dont. I think the economy going down the last few years has killed alot of the "rare" retro gaming market, or maybe the fad is over. I personally like huge fads like this because while the prices rise everybody digs the rare items out of the attic, and when it falls you can get the items for very little money (for the long term collector). Its when the prices for items are too low that everything just gets tossed and the collectors have a hard time finding things. Personally I would rather buy a few upright early arcade machines then 1 atari cart I would never play for $1k. > Actually Chase the Chuckwagon is (well... was) considered to be one the > "holey grails" of collecting and used to fetch upwards of $300-$500 several > years ago I recall one or two going for as high as $1000 at one point, they > are a little more common in collecting circles and quite frankly, a > cartridge of that quality label going for only $70 is actually a steal. > Around $100-$125 is the going rate > > > Curt > From marvin at rain.org Sun Oct 5 22:07:44 2003 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:18 2005 Subject: HP-85 consumables, part 2. References: <20031006025133.00854370EA@www.fastmail.fm> Message-ID: <3F80DC80.E37A1DE@rain.org> According to the 82931A box, each roll is 4.25" x 400'. David Vohs wrote: > > Anyone know how wide the thermal paper is for the HP-85's printer? Is it > 3 & 1/8", or is it wider? From curt at atarimuseum.com Sun Oct 5 22:18:32 2003 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:18 2005 Subject: Used Atari 2600 Game Cartridge goes for over $70 References: <019201c38ba2$e1d71d40$100ddd40@oemcomputer><001801c38ba8$b3d8c3c0$3d7ca418@neo.rr.com><002001c38bb1$7b5b2930$1a02a8c0@starship1> <000801c38bb6$76814d40$3d7ca418@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: <003601c38bb8$85a67d70$1a02a8c0@starship1> Thats VERY true, in fact the boom-times were killing a lot of us game collectors, the prices of arcade machines and other items just went ballistic, things have settled down to more reasonale figures, though I wouldn't mind seeing them a bit lower ;-) Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "TeoZ" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2003 11:03 PM Subject: Re: Used Atari 2600 Game Cartridge goes for over $70 > Its (almost) funny how much people will pay for an item when they have > money burning a hole in their pockets, and how much they will let things go > for when they dont. I think the economy going down the last few years has > killed alot of the "rare" retro gaming market, or maybe the fad is over. I > personally like huge fads like this because while the prices rise everybody > digs the rare items out of the attic, and when it falls you can get the > items for very little money (for the long term collector). Its when the > prices for items are too low that everything just gets tossed and the > collectors have a hard time finding things. Personally I would rather buy a > few upright early arcade machines then 1 atari cart I would never play for > $1k. > > > > > Actually Chase the Chuckwagon is (well... was) considered to be one the > > "holey grails" of collecting and used to fetch upwards of $300-$500 > several > > years ago I recall one or two going for as high as $1000 at one point, > they > > are a little more common in collecting circles and quite frankly, a > > cartridge of that quality label going for only $70 is actually a steal. > > Around $100-$125 is the going rate > > > > > > Curt > > > > From cb at mythtech.net Sun Oct 5 22:24:40 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:18 2005 Subject: Help! need 400k/800k Mac os 6 or 7 diskettes! Message-ID: >OOps I already sent it onlist... :^) Yeah, I realized that after I hit send on the message asking for it off list. Oh well, at least I have it. I'll get a set of disks out to you tomorrow (Monday). -chris From rhudson at cnonline.net Sun Oct 5 22:34:45 2003 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:18 2005 Subject: Help! need 400k/800k Mac os 6 or 7 diskettes! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <07E9E58C-F7AE-11D7-9719-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> Thanks! btw I can't seem to get www.mythtech.net... is it up? it could just be the Nameserver I am stuck with. On Sunday, October 5, 2003, at 10:24 PM, chris wrote: >> OOps I already sent it onlist... :^) > > Yeah, I realized that after I hit send on the message asking for it off > list. > > Oh well, at least I have it. I'll get a set of disks out to you > tomorrow > (Monday). > > -chris > > > From vcf at siconic.com Sun Oct 5 22:47:20 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:18 2005 Subject: Used Atari 2600 Game Cartridge goes for over $70 In-Reply-To: <019201c38ba2$e1d71d40$100ddd40@oemcomputer> Message-ID: On Sun, 5 Oct 2003, Keys wrote: > Gamer collectors seem to over spend TOO! > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3049474935 John, study your history before spewing. Google "chase the chuckwagon atari 2600" and you'll understand why this cart goes for over $70. There are many more carts that will fetch even higher. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From spectre at floodgap.com Sun Oct 5 23:00:37 2003 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:18 2005 Subject: Need IIci cache cards Message-ID: <200310060400.VAA13456@floodgap.com> My indefatigable Macintosh IIci NetBSD server got defatigable and its cache card blew (diagnosis made by the fact that when the cache card was pulled, it suddenly could boot again). Fortunately, I had *one* *more* *card* in stock, but between the several IIcis I have running, I'm now totally out in case this happens again. Anyone going to VCF6 that has a few they could be talked/dealed into parting with? Thanks! -- ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@floodgap.com -- "Eight tries. The number is ... seven." ------------------------------------ From vcf at siconic.com Sun Oct 5 22:50:53 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:18 2005 Subject: Used Atari 2600 Game Cartridge goes for over $70 In-Reply-To: <000801c38bb6$76814d40$3d7ca418@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 5 Oct 2003, TeoZ wrote: > Its (almost) funny how much people will pay for an item when they have > money burning a hole in their pockets, and how much they will let things go > for when they dont. I think the economy going down the last few years has > killed alot of the "rare" retro gaming market, or maybe the fad is over. I Thank gawd. It was rather annoying. It's nice to be able to buy things at sensible amounts again (at least in most cases). > personally like huge fads like this because while the prices rise everybody > digs the rare items out of the attic, and when it falls you can get the > items for very little money (for the long term collector). Its when the Exactly. Which is why I always preached against using eBay to price stuff or to even buy stuff from. If you learned your lessons of patience as a youth then you should have eventually gotten what you wanted at a much more reasonable (and REALISTIC) price. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Sun Oct 5 22:53:14 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:18 2005 Subject: Used Atari 2600 Game Cartridge goes for over $70 In-Reply-To: <003601c38bb8$85a67d70$1a02a8c0@starship1> Message-ID: On Sun, 5 Oct 2003, Curt vendel wrote: > Thats VERY true, in fact the boom-times were killing a lot of us game > collectors, the prices of arcade machines and other items just went > ballistic, things have settled down to more reasonale figures, though I > wouldn't mind seeing them a bit lower ;-) Don't worry. With the way the economy is going in the States and no hope of any kind of actual recovery with the current status quo (ahem) you can expect a lot of people to start dumping whatever they have to get whatever they can to pay the bills. The pundits are calling this a "jobless recovery". I'm calling it a "recoveryless recovery". -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From lbickley at bickleywest.com Sun Oct 5 23:42:26 2003 From: lbickley at bickleywest.com (Lyle Bickley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:18 2005 Subject: HP-85 consumables, part 2. In-Reply-To: <20031006025133.00854370EA@www.fastmail.fm> References: <20031006025133.00854370EA@www.fastmail.fm> Message-ID: <200310052142.26637.lbickley@bickleywest.com> Avout 4.25 inches (108 mm) for HP82931A paper Lyle On Sunday 05 October 2003 19:51, David Vohs wrote: > Anyone know how wide the thermal paper is for the HP-85's printer? Is it > 3 & 1/8", or is it wider? > -- > David Vohs > netsurfer_x1@fastmailbox.net -- Lyle Bickley Bickley Consulting West Inc. Mountain View, CA 94040 "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero" From jpl15 at panix.com Sun Oct 5 23:46:42 2003 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:18 2005 Subject: Want RL02s at VCF Message-ID: I will be seeking two, maybe three DEC RL02 drives - at least one in good working order - whilst at VCF. [also one interconnect cable and spare terminator]. I have cash to pay for same (if at all 'reasonable'). I will have a 3/4 ton 4X4 full-size pickup truck, so travelling to your Secret Mountain Hide-out to get them will not pose a problem. Will be happy to go anywhere in the Bay Area over next weekend, or to modify my trek home, if it's roughly in the same direction (to Carson City, Nevada). Lemme know. And yes, I posted this on the VCF Bulletin Board, but forgot my damn password, and lost the message trying to find the Magic Formulae. So there. Cheers John From teoz at neo.rr.com Sun Oct 5 23:52:23 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:18 2005 Subject: Used Atari 2600 Game Cartridge goes for over $70 References: Message-ID: <000a01c38bc5$a20105a0$3d7ca418@neo.rr.com> > > Don't worry. With the way the economy is going in the States and no hope > of any kind of actual recovery with the current status quo (ahem) you can > expect a lot of people to start dumping whatever they have to get whatever > they can to pay the bills. > > The pundits are calling this a "jobless recovery". I'm calling it a > "recoveryless recovery". > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival Yea I know what you mean, being an unemployed engineer.. glad I saved for a house I never purchased. From vcf at siconic.com Sun Oct 5 23:56:41 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:18 2005 Subject: Need IIci cache cards In-Reply-To: <200310060400.VAA13456@floodgap.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 5 Oct 2003, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > My indefatigable Macintosh IIci NetBSD server got defatigable and its cache > card blew (diagnosis made by the fact that when the cache card was pulled, it > suddenly could boot again). Fortunately, I had *one* *more* *card* in stock, > but between the several IIcis I have running, I'm now totally out in case this > happens again. Anyone going to VCF6 that has a few they could be talked/dealed > into parting with? You might also want to post this request to the VCF BBS: http://www.vintage.org/2003/main/bbs.php?directive=index:VCF60:TRADE:0 -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From teoz at neo.rr.com Mon Oct 6 02:19:39 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:18 2005 Subject: Used Atari 2600 Game Cartridge goes for over $70 References: Message-ID: <001201c38bda$37ccb5c0$3d7ca418@neo.rr.com> > Exactly. Which is why I always preached against using eBay to price stuff > or to even buy stuff from. If you learned your lessons of patience as a > youth then you should have eventually gotten what you wanted at a much > more reasonable (and REALISTIC) price. > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > You can find some great deals on ebay for items you want if your patient and check for them every day, compared to great deals that just fall into your lap otherwise when your not really looking. You can also get burned on ebay easily, just be carefull. Then again the stuff I look for isnt that expensive, I dont think I spent more then $150 on any 1 item on ebay and that was when I started 3 years ago. From e.huininga at sozawe.groningen.nl Mon Oct 6 03:09:12 2003 From: e.huininga at sozawe.groningen.nl (Eelco Huininga) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:18 2005 Subject: Betr.: Morely Electronics Teletext Adapter. Message-ID: The users guide can be downloaded here: http://www.retrocomputing-world.com/biblio/computer/acorn/doc/MorleyTeletextAdapterSupportROM.pdf Furthermore you could check http://www.8bs.com/ and The BBC lives (http://www.bbc.nvg.org/ ). The latter should have an archive of ROMs, which almost certainly should have the ROM for your adapter. Cheers, Eelco >>> Tony Duell 10/05 7:24 >>> While looking for Econet bits, I found the above-mentioned unit (Morely Electronics Teletext Adapter). It's clearly a BBC periperal. On the back is Belling-Lee coaxial socket (standard TV aerial connector), and a piece of 6 way ribbon cable. This splits, 4 wires go to a 20 pin 2-row IDC header socket (presumably BBC User Port, the connections would then be +5V, Ground, and 2 lines for I2C SCL and SDA). The other 2 wires go to a plug to fit the BBC's power outlet socket, to get 12V. Inside there's a single PCB with a TV tuner module mounted off one edge. The PCB contains a TV IF strip, CITAC (Computer Interface for Tuning And Control) chip (to select the TV channel under computer control), and a standard Teletext chipset (SAA5240 based IIRC). Does anyone know anything about this unit, and more importantly, anyone know where I can get the software to use it (it's certainly not compatable with the Acorn Teletext unit). -tony From e.huininga at sozawe.groningen.nl Mon Oct 6 03:11:19 2003 From: e.huininga at sozawe.groningen.nl (Eelco Huininga) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:18 2005 Subject: Betr.: Acorn Econet Message-ID: Econet fileservers were called 'Filestores' which came in different 'levels', which is somewhat like a version number. Check http://www.heyrick.co.uk/econet/ for more information. There was an Econet interface card available for PC's, called 'Ecolink'. With this card I believe it was possible to hook an Econet to an Ethernet, and/or to set up a PC as a fileserver. I think it would be easier to set up an A310, A3000 or A3010 as a fileserver though. Another option which I've been working on is adding an Ethernet interface to an BBC, and writing a simple TCP/IP stack so that this BBC can act as an Econet-Ethernet bridge, but this project is still in the design stage :-) Some econet documents can be found here: http://www.retrocomputing-world.com/biblio/computer/acorn/docs.shtml Cheers, Eelco >>> Tony Duell 10/05 7:20 >>> Does anyone have any experience with Acorn Econet (Acorn's low-cost, fairly low-speed network)? My newly-acquired Acorn Cambridge Workstation (ACW) has an Econet interface (I am told it's standard on these machines), and I'd like to hook it up to something. Digging in my junk box (well, more like junk room :-)), I've found a couple of Econet clock boxes (one Acorn, one SJ, these supply the data clock for the network), a terminator, various connector boxes, etc. Cabling shouldn't be a real problem either, I assume the right cable is 2 twisted pairs with an overall screen. I believe I need a fileserver (== a machine set up as such). Assume I have Beebs (with Econet interfaces), 6502 and Z80 second processors, A310 (but no backplane, therefore no expansion), A3000 (no expansion either), A3010 (in bits, but probably repairable), a couple of Systems (one with an Exonet interface), and not a lot else. I think I could find the Acorn SASI/SCSI host interface for the Beeb if pushed, and I have a Beeb with the Torch SCSI card and SCSIFS. Oh, and an Acorn Econet bridge, but that's fairly useless at the moment... Any ideas as to what I should use, and where to get the necessary software. Has anyone ever hacked a PC to work as an Econet fileserver? The hardware wouldn't be too bad, I think. Anything else I should be aware of? -tony From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Oct 6 04:46:16 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:18 2005 Subject: Need IIci cache cards In-Reply-To: <200310060400.VAA13456@floodgap.com> References: <200310060400.VAA13456@floodgap.com> Message-ID: >My indefatigable Macintosh IIci NetBSD server got defatigable and its cache >card blew (diagnosis made by the fact that when the cache card was pulled, it OK, what exactly is a "Cache Card"? I would guess that it's CPU cache on a card of some sort? Is this something limited to the IIci, or do other models in the II series use it? Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From spectre at floodgap.com Mon Oct 6 05:42:43 2003 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:18 2005 Subject: Need IIci cache cards In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at "Oct 6, 3 02:46:16 am" Message-ID: <200310061042.DAA09486@floodgap.com> > > My indefatigable Macintosh IIci NetBSD server got defatigable and its cache > > card blew (diagnosis made by the fact that when the cache card was pulled, > > OK, what exactly is a "Cache Card"? I would guess that it's CPU cache on a > card of some sort? Is this something limited to the IIci, or do other > models in the II series use it? AFAIK it's specific to the IIci. It goes in the PDS slot and is 32K of L1 cache for the '030 (basically equivalent to the L1 that the '040 has built in). The performance upgrade is only moderate, but definitely noticible, and it's a cheap and almost painless way to get more juice out of a IIci. Later releases of the IIci had the cache card included (it was an option on earlier releases). -- ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@floodgap.com -- Hidden DOS secret: add BUGS=OFF to your CONFIG.SYS. ------------------------ From paulha at sonic.net Fri Oct 3 13:27:52 2003 From: paulha at sonic.net (Paul Haase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:18 2005 Subject: Visual Commuter LCD Message-ID: <200310031827.h93IRlSl006660@eth0.b.smtp.sonic.net> Martin, I have a working old Commuter as well, with the LCD screen. Well, at least it worked the last time I checked, some years back. I can check again and if so, I'd be happy to sell you the whole thing if you wish, for some small price. Shipping will probably be the bigger cost. Assuming you haven't already found an LCD screen or moved on to another project. Let me know, Paul Haase San Rafael, CA I have a Visual Commuter laptop which I purchased new and still works. It's stored securely in a closet. Unfortunately, I didn't purchased a LCD display for it. Would you by chance know where I may purchased an LCD? From Mehdi.Mir at bakerhughes.com Fri Oct 3 16:28:30 2003 From: Mehdi.Mir at bakerhughes.com (Mir, Mehdi) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:19 2005 Subject: 29F512 flash memory Message-ID: <27621160A506974F9F389E2D27E9BB31ED9C3F@MSGHDCEIS2.ent.bhicorp.com> I came across your website and read that you have 29F512 chips. Are these 28 pin DIP and will they replace the 27C512 eprom? Also if they are compatible are you able to sell me a few pieces. Thanks Mehdi Mir From Mehdi.Mir at bakerhughes.com Fri Oct 3 17:09:06 2003 From: Mehdi.Mir at bakerhughes.com (Mir, Mehdi) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:19 2005 Subject: 27SF512-70 Message-ID: <27621160A506974F9F389E2D27E9BB31ED9C40@MSGHDCEIS2.ent.bhicorp.com> I would like to know if you have any of these chips available. They are the direct flash replacement for the 27C512 that I'm looking for. Thanks Mehdi Mir From philip at awale.qc.ca Fri Oct 3 21:39:58 2003 From: philip at awale.qc.ca (philip@awale.qc.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:19 2005 Subject: Mac SE/30 revival In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 02-Oct-2003 Ian Primus wrote: > > On Thursday, October 2, 2003, at 01:18 PM, liste@artware.qc.ca wrote: > >> I was driving into town when I spoted the aforementioned computer in >> some >> phule's garbage. I stopped and pulled it out. However, when I turn it >> on, the screen comes up 4 grey scan lines, then alternating 8 black >> scan >> lines and 8 grey scan lines. A friend mentioned that this is normal >> boot >> config, that it should then proceed to the happy mac icon and so on. >> He >> asked if the ROM was still in it. I can't get the box open though : I >> don't have the extra special long torx driver to get at the 2 top >> screws. >> And the hex extention bits I have don't fit into the hole. >> >> Anyone have a clue about how to revive this? I'd love to get netbsd >> running on it. >> >> Or is it hopeless? >> >> -Philip >> > > Should be repairable. Here is a site that has just about everything you > ever wanted to know about the Macintosh SE/30. > http://www.biwa.ne.jp/~shamada/fullmac/repairEng.html http://www.biwa.ne.jp/~shamada/fullmac/repairEng.html#SimasiMac Yes! This exactly describes my problem. Now to get the beast apart to see if I can effect a repair. > As for getting the computer open, I made my own tool. Here is what you > will need: Clever. Thank you for the advice. -Philip From george at rachors.com Fri Oct 3 22:48:19 2003 From: george at rachors.com (George Leo Rachor Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:19 2005 Subject: Original IBM PC, Apple Macintosh cube, interest? In-Reply-To: <3F7E30CA.5080204@aurora.regenstrief.org> Message-ID: As one who got his cube the hard way....(Bought it retail) They really are great machines.... Remember that they are fanless (unless you got the high end video card).... Perfect music machine.... George Rachor ========================================================= George L. Rachor Jr. george@rachors.com Hillsboro, Oregon http://rachors.com United States of America Amateur Radio : KD7DCX On Fri, 3 Oct 2003, Gunther Schadow wrote: > Hi, I keep seeing original IBM PCs and Apple Macintosh cubes and > although it's tempting to snatch one for myself this small stuff > isn't really my collector's specialty and I have not enogh room > anyway. But thought that may be some people here think it's > interesting enough to be saved. Since this stuff is shippable > and if there is real big interest I might go through the hassle > and pick such things up ship them. > > regards, > -Gunther > > > From JWDWRD at aol.com Sat Oct 4 00:26:24 2003 From: JWDWRD at aol.com (JWDWRD@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:19 2005 Subject: eagle computer ? Message-ID: If you have any questions about the true story- I would be more than happy to help- after all- he was my father-and yes, I can prove it if necessary as so many people love to doubt that! Jennifer Barnhart-Woodward (for the record, he died June 8th 1983) From freddyboomboom at comcast.net Sat Oct 4 18:40:13 2003 From: freddyboomboom at comcast.net (Andrew Prince) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:19 2005 Subject: HP 7906 drive lives again & stuff Message-ID: <000101c38ad0$dc313970$6c7ba8c0@freddyboomboom> Sorry I don't have any clue to help you on the squirrel cage. But the one thing I wanted to mention to you was to disconnect the solenoid that controls the heads moving out when testing the disk packs. We had a case where a bunch of disk packs were stored in a hot muggy environment for about 9 months or so, and warped on us. When spun up, the disk will make quite the shrill noise indicating it's warped, and if you don't disconnect the solenoid, the drive will crash all over again. I haven't worked on one of those drives in about 10 years... TTFN Andrew From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Sun Oct 5 00:29:44 2003 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:19 2005 Subject: VAXen available. Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.2.20031004221120.02f1b788@66.125.189.29> A number of VAXen are available this week from www.auctionbdi.com. I gave them all of my "spares machines" which I cannot store and no one in the Bay Area wanted. The good news is that BDI will ship them to you pretty much anywhere in the country and the minimum bid is $25. The lot to look for has 3 MV3400's (in BA213 cases), one VAX 4000/300 (in a BA440 case) and one MicroVAX II in a pedastal BA23 case. I don't recall how complete they are, I do thing the 4000/300 is complete except for some DSSI plugs which I needed to bring my 3800 on line. Two of the 3400's have the front "door" (one says MicroVAX 3400, one says VAXServer 3400). If you've got a 3400 or 4000/300 there are plenty of parts to "enhance" your system. I believe the 4000/300 has 192MB of memory but can't swear to it) There is also a MicroVAX 3600 in a H9644 rack. This one I've never looked at in depth other than to note that it has a 4 SCSI drives and a tape but a gap where the SCSI controller had been. Given that it couldn't talk to the disks I pretty much ignored it. Finally there are some PC parts with a nice 17" NEC 5fg monitor (including the special NEC VGA cable). The monitor is nice but not an "Energy Saver" (it stays on as long as power is applied, no standby mode) Probably not of interest to this crowd but I thought I would mention it. --Chuck From RKessell at aol.com Sun Oct 5 10:14:30 2003 From: RKessell at aol.com (RKessell@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:19 2005 Subject: Tic Tac Toe Game on Minivac 601 Message-ID: <150.24d2f98b.2cb18f56@aol.com> Tony.... This must be your lucky day. I saw your message on the internet. The tic tac toe game is in my Minivac 601 Manual. If you e-mail me your fax number I will send it to you. The copyright on the Manual is 1961 by Scientific Development Corporation, Watertown Mass. Hope this is what you are looking for. Regards, Richard From that1address at hotmail.com Sun Oct 5 15:13:07 2003 From: that1address at hotmail.com (Krikor Hovasapian) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:19 2005 Subject: 64 PIN PLCC Socket Message-ID: Joe, I saw your posting on classiccmp.org for the 64 pin PLCC socket. We're doing a project involving a PHILLIPS SAA7111A video decoder chip which is 14x14mm size and has 64 pins but have had a difficult time finding a ZIF socket that's compatible with the chip for PCB implementation. I was wondering if you still have the Textool 64 pin PLCC ZIF socket and how much you'd be willing to sell it for or if you don't have it any longer, where could I find a zif socket for the chip we're using. Thanks... Greg Posting: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctech/2003-May/014414.html _________________________________________________________________ High-speed Internet access as low as $29.95/month (depending on the local service providers in your area). Click here. https://broadband.msn.com From john_a_s2003 at hotmail.com Sun Oct 5 17:27:04 2003 From: john_a_s2003 at hotmail.com (John) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:19 2005 Subject: HP-85 consumerables Message-ID: Hi, I read the earlier messages about DC100A v DC1000 tapes. I was given a DC1000 tape to try and sadly it didn't work in my HP-85. I found the following page which implies the DC1000 requires a stronger magnetic field than DC100A. So it's a bit like typing to use HD floppies in a DD drive. http://www.cybergenetic.ca/ebook/wrh13.htm (BTW these tapes are 0.15" not one eight of an inch). The following firm advertise DC100A, but I haven't bought any from them so don't know if they have any stock: http://www.athana.com/html/minicart.html HTH, John From svs at ropnet.ru Mon Oct 6 03:04:00 2003 From: svs at ropnet.ru (Sergey Svishchev) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:19 2005 Subject: EISA config for Everex STEP DP Message-ID: <20031006080400.GA19314@svs.inside.caravan.ru> G'day, You posted a request for !EVX0101.CFG on classiccmp. Unfortunately, I don't have one; I'm looking for !EVX0002.CFG myself. So far I haven't found any mirrors of everex.com or an archive of CFG files, but here's a clue: http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=UTC200211161343.gAGDhQI15309.aeb%40smtp.cwi.nl I'll be contacting Andries.Brouwer@cwi.nl, perhaps he will make his archive available. -- Sergey Svishchev From jwest at classiccmp.org Mon Oct 6 07:48:29 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:19 2005 Subject: black paper tape = mylar? Message-ID: <00b301c38c08$245e6960$033310ac@kwcorp.com> I was wanting to get some mylar paper tape. There is an auction on Ebay for 6 rolls of "black paper tape"... can one generally assume that black paper tape is mylar and not just paper? The URL is http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2562042672 Can anyone advise if this is likely to be mylar or not? Regards, Jay West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From chejmw at acsu.buffalo.edu Mon Oct 6 07:58:40 2003 From: chejmw at acsu.buffalo.edu (James M. Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:19 2005 Subject: Whats the big deal with the Bigboard II ??? References: <019201c38ba2$e1d71d40$100ddd40@oemcomputer><001801c38ba8$b3d8c3c0$3d7ca418@neo.rr.com> <002f01c38bb5$e01611b0$1a02a8c0@starship1> Message-ID: <00fe01c38c09$909b5880$317ecd80@chem.buffalo.edu> The Big Board was a "clone" of the Xerox 820 system! In fact it could be set up to run exactly like it and use all the software for the system. There were even boards designed later to allow use with Shugart Hard drives. There was at the time of its' high popularity a large following of users, and also a users group and news letter, and Bulletin Board setup to call into and download programs and leave questions and get answers. Quite popular actually. The boards were used in a LOT of Amateur Radio related projects as well! ASCII to anything conversions, there is even a "Modem" program specifically for the Big Board, with speeds up to 19200 Baud. How do I know, I have two and they still run, are in use in Radio Apps. The Xerox 820 was another board that was highly used for various purposes, including terminal node controllers (TNCs) for vhf and uhf two-way radio systems. These programs also ran on the Big Board system requiring only a removal of the Eproms and installing the new ones made it a "dedicated" controller. It is a 4 Mhz Z-80 with 2 SIO, 1 PIO and a driver onboard to run most of the "VDTs" of the era! Software was abundant and easy to install, making it a Plug and Play type microcontroller system with floppy devices, 5.25 and 8 inch for storage. I ran CP/M and a few other systems. Jim WB2FCN http://eshop1.chem.buffalo.edu ----- Original Message ----- From: "Curt vendel" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2003 10:59 PM Subject: Whats the big deal with the Bigboard II ??? > Hi, > > Can someone fill me in on all the interest? I just recently won an > auction on Ebay, primarily I wanted just the cabinet with its 8" disk drives > and power supply so I could install an 8" controller inside of it that > allows Atari 8bits using the SIO bus to use 8" disk drives. > > Well as a bonus the auction came with the Big Board II inside of the > cabinet, I couldn't tell from the photo and figured yeah it was some kind of > single board computer, but since winning the auction I've received 5 emails > inquiring and wanting to buy it from me, so tell me what the story is behind > this board please. > > > > Curt > > > > From chejmw at acsu.buffalo.edu Mon Oct 6 08:35:17 2003 From: chejmw at acsu.buffalo.edu (James M. Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:19 2005 Subject: black paper tape = mylar? References: <00b301c38c08$245e6960$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <017201c38c0e$ae080da0$317ecd80@chem.buffalo.edu> Not necessarily, there are a lot of different tape colors that were in use, some companies had a whole spectrum of colors for use in internal communications for various departments. You should always check to be sure, are you also aware the punch mechanism for mylar has a different head than the standard punches. Careful as the head in constant use may need serious cleaning. Jim WB2FCN http://eshop1.chem.buffalo.edu ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jay West" To: Sent: Monday, October 06, 2003 8:48 AM Subject: black paper tape = mylar? > I was wanting to get some mylar paper tape. There is an auction on Ebay for > 6 rolls of "black paper tape"... can one generally assume that black paper > tape is mylar and not just paper? > > The URL is http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2562042672 > > Can anyone advise if this is likely to be mylar or not? > > Regards, > > Jay West > > --- > [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > > From jfoust at threedee.com Mon Oct 6 08:39:10 2003 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:19 2005 Subject: Mercury delay line memory, revisited Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20031006083743.05a98210@pc> How to turn the Internet into volatile storage: http://isec.pl/papers/juggling_with_packets.txt - John From cb at mythtech.net Mon Oct 6 09:03:40 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:19 2005 Subject: Help! need 400k/800k Mac os 6 or 7 diskettes! Message-ID: >btw I can't seem to get www.mythtech.net... is it up? >it could just be the Nameserver I am stuck with. Its up now, it was up when I tried it. So maybe it was down and fixed itself, or maybe there was a failure elsewhere. Feel free to try again. -chris From ohh at drizzle.com Mon Oct 6 09:06:01 2003 From: ohh at drizzle.com (O. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:19 2005 Subject: black paper tape = mylar? In-Reply-To: <00b301c38c08$245e6960$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: > I was wanting to get some mylar paper tape. There is an auction on Ebay for > 6 rolls of "black paper tape"... can one generally assume that black paper > tape is mylar and not just paper? Not a good idea, I'm afraid. I have a roll of jet-black paper tape here at home amongst about 16 rolls of yellow. (Ironically, I don't have a tape punch at the moment. ) -O.- From jwest at classiccmp.org Mon Oct 6 09:21:04 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:19 2005 Subject: memory refresher on PUTR Message-ID: <017401c38c15$13c53900$033310ac@kwcorp.com> I used to know this, but have forgotten, and now I'm getting ready to dig the software back out... I believe it was a program called PUTR that I used on a PC to read/write 5.25 floppy disks to exchange data with my PDP-11/23 that had an RX50 drive in it. Should the PC drive be a 360k floppy or a 1.2m floppy? Wonder if there is some story as to the history of "disc" vs. "disk" :) HP always used "disc". Jay West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From esharpe at uswest.net Mon Oct 6 09:30:36 2003 From: esharpe at uswest.net (ed sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:19 2005 Subject: black paper tape = mylar? References: <00b301c38c08$245e6960$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <004601c38c16$692dbc40$0100a8c0@SONYDIGITALED> generally the black paper tape is just paper... the Mylar is several different colors but have never seen it in black ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jay West" To: Sent: Monday, October 06, 2003 5:48 AM Subject: black paper tape = mylar? > I was wanting to get some mylar paper tape. There is an auction on Ebay for > 6 rolls of "black paper tape"... can one generally assume that black paper > tape is mylar and not just paper? > > The URL is http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2562042672 > > Can anyone advise if this is likely to be mylar or not? > > Regards, > > Jay West > > --- > [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > > > From jbmcb at hotmail.com Mon Oct 6 09:47:59 2003 From: jbmcb at hotmail.com (Jason McBrien) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:19 2005 Subject: Need IIci cache cards References: <200310061042.DAA09486@floodgap.com> Message-ID: If I remember the benchmark results correctly, the extra 32k speeds up video by a few percent, and "Scientific" operations (IE floating point math) by a few tens of percentage points. I've got a 128k cache card and it speeds up everything by quite a bit. Probably has something to do with the built-in video getting sped up. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cameron Kaiser" To: Sent: Monday, October 06, 2003 6:42 AM Subject: Re: Need IIci cache cards > > > My indefatigable Macintosh IIci NetBSD server got defatigable and its cache > > > card blew (diagnosis made by the fact that when the cache card was pulled, > > > > OK, what exactly is a "Cache Card"? I would guess that it's CPU cache on a > > card of some sort? Is this something limited to the IIci, or do other > > models in the II series use it? > > AFAIK it's specific to the IIci. It goes in the PDS slot and is 32K of L1 > cache for the '030 (basically equivalent to the L1 that the '040 has built > in). The performance upgrade is only moderate, but definitely noticible, and > it's a cheap and almost painless way to get more juice out of a IIci. > > Later releases of the IIci had the cache card included (it was an option on > earlier releases). > > -- > ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- > Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@floodgap.com > -- Hidden DOS secret: add BUGS=OFF to your CONFIG.SYS. ------------------------ > From lbickley at bickleywest.com Mon Oct 6 10:12:07 2003 From: lbickley at bickleywest.com (Lyle Bickley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:19 2005 Subject: black paper tape = mylar? In-Reply-To: <00b301c38c08$245e6960$033310ac@kwcorp.com> References: <00b301c38c08$245e6960$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <200310060812.07141.lbickley@bickleywest.com> I'd contact the seller and ask them if the tapes are oiled (you can smell the oil) - if so, they are not mylar. (I've used a lot of that black/oiled tape - btw, mylar tape is typically not black, IMHO and experience) Lyle On Monday 06 October 2003 05:48, Jay West wrote: > I was wanting to get some mylar paper tape. There is an auction on Ebay for > 6 rolls of "black paper tape"... can one generally assume that black paper > tape is mylar and not just paper? > > The URL is http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2562042672 > > Can anyone advise if this is likely to be mylar or not? > > Regards, > > Jay West > > --- > [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] -- Lyle Bickley Bickley Consulting West Inc. Mountain View, CA 94040 "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero" From allain at panix.com Mon Oct 6 10:24:20 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:19 2005 Subject: VAXen available. References: <6.0.0.22.2.20031004221120.02f1b788@66.125.189.29> Message-ID: <022101c38c1d$ea4a8b80$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> It's not clear how to operate on auctionbdi EG, there are no VAXen listed under 'computers' there right now. http://www.auctionbdi.com/auctions.asp?cat=3 You say "this week"... maybe you should post us when the right date comes up. John A. From curt at atarimuseum.com Mon Oct 6 10:42:33 2003 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:19 2005 Subject: Whats the big deal with the Bigboard II ??? References: <019201c38ba2$e1d71d40$100ddd40@oemcomputer><001801c38ba8$b3d8c3c0$3d7ca418@neo.rr.com><002f01c38bb5$e01611b0$1a02a8c0@starship1> <00fe01c38c09$909b5880$317ecd80@chem.buffalo.edu> Message-ID: <005e01c38c20$75e12f80$1a02a8c0@starship1> James, Thanks for all the great background, well if anyone is interested in the board, please make me an offer, I already have an ATR8000 and an ATR8500 to run CP/M and some DOS programs on my Atari and I have a custom 8" drive controller for the Atari, so I would rather not see this board sit and not be used. Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "James M. Walker" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Monday, October 06, 2003 8:58 AM Subject: Re: Whats the big deal with the Bigboard II ??? > The Big Board was a "clone" of the Xerox 820 system! In fact it could be set > up to run > exactly like it and use all the software for the system. There were even > boards designed > later to allow use with Shugart Hard drives. There was at the time of its' > high popularity > a large following of users, and also a users group and news letter, and > Bulletin Board > setup to call into and download programs and leave questions and get > answers. Quite > popular actually. The boards were used in a LOT of Amateur Radio related > projects > as well! ASCII to anything conversions, there is even a "Modem" program > specifically for > the Big Board, with speeds up to 19200 Baud. How do I know, I have two and > they > still run, are in use in Radio Apps. The Xerox 820 was another board that > was highly > used for various purposes, including terminal node controllers (TNCs) for > vhf and uhf > two-way radio systems. These programs also ran on the Big Board system > requiring only > a removal of the Eproms and installing the new ones made it a "dedicated" > controller. > > It is a 4 Mhz Z-80 with 2 SIO, 1 PIO and a driver onboard to run most of the > "VDTs" > of the era! Software was abundant and easy to install, making it a Plug and > Play type > microcontroller system with floppy devices, 5.25 and 8 inch for storage. I > ran CP/M > and a few other systems. > Jim > WB2FCN > http://eshop1.chem.buffalo.edu > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Curt vendel" > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2003 10:59 PM > Subject: Whats the big deal with the Bigboard II ??? > > > > Hi, > > > > Can someone fill me in on all the interest? I just recently won an > > auction on Ebay, primarily I wanted just the cabinet with its 8" disk > drives > > and power supply so I could install an 8" controller inside of it that > > allows Atari 8bits using the SIO bus to use 8" disk drives. > > > > Well as a bonus the auction came with the Big Board II inside of the > > cabinet, I couldn't tell from the photo and figured yeah it was some kind > of > > single board computer, but since winning the auction I've received 5 > emails > > inquiring and wanting to buy it from me, so tell me what the story is > behind > > this board please. > > > > > > > > Curt > > > > > > > > > From vcf at siconic.com Mon Oct 6 10:58:17 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:19 2005 Subject: black paper tape = mylar? In-Reply-To: <00b301c38c08$245e6960$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 6 Oct 2003, Jay West wrote: > I was wanting to get some mylar paper tape. There is an auction on Ebay for > 6 rolls of "black paper tape"... can one generally assume that black paper > tape is mylar and not just paper? > > The URL is http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2562042672 > > Can anyone advise if this is likely to be mylar or not? That wouldn't be a prudent assumption. I have a bunch of programs on black paper tape and it is indeed paper. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From pds3 at ix.netcom.com Mon Oct 6 10:39:13 2003 From: pds3 at ix.netcom.com (Shannon Hoskins) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:19 2005 Subject: Garage sale, DEC 3000/500 $50, HSZ40 $25, ... References: <200310032219.h93MJvUu004978@onyx.spiritone.com> Message-ID: <000c01c38c1f$ff2b2bc0$7f3ba5d1@shannon> Hello Zane, Where are you located? Sincerely, Shannon Hoskins ----- Original Message ----- From: "Zane H. Healy" To: Sent: Friday, October 03, 2003 3:19 PM Subject: Re: Garage sale, DEC 3000/500 $50, HSZ40 $25, ... > > Am I crazy to sell a DEC 3000/500 server (desk side) for $50? I > > believe it's got all the RAM it can fit and disk in and lots SCSI > > plugs out. My HSZ40s go for $25 a piece. My HP9000K400 with 2xDDS2 > > drives and 30 GB (?) RAID array and HP Terminal all in one rack go > > for $100. > > > > Am I crazy or just fed up about stuff taking space in my garage? > > I can't really comment on the HP (though it might be a little low). The > DEC3000/500 sounds about right. The HSZ40's are old enough to probably be > reasonable. > > Zane From dholland at woh.rr.com Mon Oct 6 12:14:56 2003 From: dholland at woh.rr.com (David Holland) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:19 2005 Subject: Used Atari 2600 Game Cartridge goes for over $70 In-Reply-To: <001201c38bda$37ccb5c0$3d7ca418@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 6 Oct 2003, TeoZ wrote: > easily, just be carefull. Then again the stuff I look for isnt that > expensive, I dont think I spent more then $150 on any 1 item on ebay and > that was when I started 3 years ago. Eh, I have. SGI Octane, MXI graphics, 195Mhz R10K, 256Mb mem, No Disk 400$. A year later, I still consider 400$ a pretty reasonable deal. The only reason I considered it was the seller was local.... I picked it up in person. Obligatory ontopic piece: I've a SGI Crimson w VGXT too, Anyone got a sled or and/or skins they want to get rid of cheap.. :-) David From hofmanwb at worldonline.nl Mon Oct 6 12:46:43 2003 From: hofmanwb at worldonline.nl (W.B.(Wim) Hofman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:19 2005 Subject: memory refresher on PUTR References: <017401c38c15$13c53900$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <001501c38c32$071e8540$8594f0c3@computer4> 360 Wim ----- Original Message ----- From: Jay West To: Sent: Monday, October 06, 2003 4:21 PM Subject: memory refresher on PUTR > I used to know this, but have forgotten, and now I'm getting ready to dig > the software back out... > > I believe it was a program called PUTR that I used on a PC to read/write > 5.25 floppy disks to exchange data with my PDP-11/23 that had an RX50 drive > in it. Should the PC drive be a 360k floppy or a 1.2m floppy? > > Wonder if there is some story as to the history of "disc" vs. "disk" :) HP > always used "disc". > > Jay West > > --- > [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > From eric at brouhaha.com Mon Oct 6 13:00:41 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:19 2005 Subject: black paper tape = mylar? In-Reply-To: <00b301c38c08$245e6960$033310ac@kwcorp.com> References: <00b301c38c08$245e6960$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <39309.64.169.63.74.1065463241.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > I was wanting to get some mylar paper tape. There is an auction on Ebay > for > 6 rolls of "black paper tape"... can one generally assume that black paper > tape is mylar and not just paper? No. All the black "paper tape" I've ever used was in fact paper. From eric at brouhaha.com Mon Oct 6 13:02:39 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:19 2005 Subject: memory refresher on PUTR In-Reply-To: <017401c38c15$13c53900$033310ac@kwcorp.com> References: <017401c38c15$13c53900$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <39321.64.169.63.74.1065463359.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > I believe it was a program called PUTR that I used on a PC to read/write > 5.25 floppy disks to exchange data with my PDP-11/23 that had an RX50 > drive > in it. Should the PC drive be a 360k floppy or a 1.2m floppy? 1.2M. The RX50 is an 80-track single sided drive, so their is no way to read or write the discs in a 40-track 360k drive. But a 1.2M drive will work fine. From waltje at pdp11.nl Mon Oct 6 13:30:57 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:19 2005 Subject: memory refresher on PUTR In-Reply-To: <39321.64.169.63.74.1065463359.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 6 Oct 2003, Eric Smith wrote: > > I believe it was a program called PUTR that I used on a PC to read/write > > 5.25 floppy disks to exchange data with my PDP-11/23 that had an RX50 > > drive > > in it. Should the PC drive be a 360k floppy or a 1.2m floppy? > > 1.2M. The RX50 is an 80-track single sided drive, so their is no way > to read or write the discs in a 40-track 360k drive. But a 1.2M drive > will work fine. Hmm.. Jay: I stand corrected. Indeed, they're 80tr, not 40tr... --f From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Oct 6 10:33:27 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:19 2005 Subject: 27SF512-70 In-Reply-To: <27621160A506974F9F389E2D27E9BB31ED9C40@MSGHDCEIS2.ent.bhic orp.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031006113327.007d6bb0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Somebody needs to tell this clown that this isn't his private procurement list! Joe At 05:09 PM 10/3/03 -0500, you wrote: >I would like to know if you have any of these chips available. They are >the direct flash replacement for the 27C512 that I'm looking for. > >Thanks >Mehdi Mir > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Oct 6 10:35:36 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:19 2005 Subject: black paper tape = mylar? In-Reply-To: <00b301c38c08$245e6960$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031006113536.007d76a0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 07:48 AM 10/6/03 -0500, you wrote: >I was wanting to get some mylar paper tape. There is an auction on Ebay for >6 rolls of "black paper tape"... can one generally assume that black paper >tape is mylar and not just paper? NO! I have several boxs of black PAPER tape so they do (did!) make the stuff. Joe > >The URL is http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2562042672 > >Can anyone advise if this is likely to be mylar or not? > >Regards, > >Jay West > >--- >[This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > > From kd7bcy at teleport.com Mon Oct 6 13:34:42 2003 From: kd7bcy at teleport.com (John Rollins) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:19 2005 Subject: DEC cards available Message-ID: I got these cards a while back(I think I asked what they were here on the list back in 2001), mostly MicroVAX II cards I think, all Q-bus. I'm mostly interested in getting these out of the way... I have no plans for building or keeping spares for a MicroVAX or anything beside my 11/84. Not sure what they're worth, and keep in mind they are untested. Make an offer plus actual shipping - I'll also consider trades for Unibus cards for my 11/84. Whatever the list doesn't want I'll probably put on eBay(I'll give you guys a week or two for those that don't keep up with their email very well). National Semiconductor NS638 - memory card with a 50-pin connector on the front Sigma Information Systems DZV11 clone unknown Emulex - marked TU0210401 M7551-CA MSV11-QC Q 4-Mbyte 22-bit parity/CSR MOS RAM M7164 KDA50-Q Q-bus SDI adapter 1 of 2 M7606-AF MicroVAX II CPU M7608-BC not in guide? MicroVAX II RAM M7608-BF M7516-YM DELQA-M Q Qbus to Ethernet Turbo Module, Q22 M8053-MA DMV11 Microprogrammed controller (needs one of M5930-M5931) with DDCMP control ROM (point-to-point or multidrop) I have three of these: M3104 DHV11-A Q 8-line Asynchronous Multiplexor, with DMA -- /------------------------------------\ | http://jrollins.tripod.com/ | | KD7BCY kd7bcy@teleport.com | \------------------------------------/ From kd7bcy at teleport.com Mon Oct 6 13:07:28 2003 From: kd7bcy at teleport.com (John Rollins) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:19 2005 Subject: Am I seeing things? Message-ID: Is it just me or are there a lot of people posting to the list responding to things that are non existent or ancient from an archive or something? Especially these people mentioning a web site and asking to buy something. Seems that there has been a lot of that lately. -- /------------------------------------\ | http://jrollins.tripod.com/ | | KD7BCY kd7bcy@teleport.com | \------------------------------------/ From kd7bcy at teleport.com Mon Oct 6 14:10:09 2003 From: kd7bcy at teleport.com (John Rollins) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:19 2005 Subject: Help! need 400k/800k Mac os 6 or 7 diskettes! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >Apple stopped having the drives read and write 400 and 800 k disks a >while ago. Actually the System does that... I don't remember when though. I think it might have been System 8 that stopped reading 400k, I remember because I was real mad about not being able to use my PM6500 to do disks for my 128k, and then I ended up with an iMac and the iDock doesn't work under X(until you pull the cable going to the ADB and serial that is) but the USB floppy only handles 1.4MB anyway! So now it's time to get the LC up and running again I guess. But if you have Mac with the SuperDrive(floppy, not DVD-R!) in it, and you have something prior to System 8/9, you can do 400k disks all day long. Just keep a System 7 boot disk around! That oughta work with anything prior to a G3. -- /------------------------------------\ | http://jrollins.tripod.com/ | | KD7BCY kd7bcy@teleport.com | \------------------------------------/ From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Oct 6 14:12:48 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:19 2005 Subject: Am I seeing things? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >Is it just me or are there a lot of people posting to the list responding to things that are non existent or ancient from an archive or something? Especially these people mentioning a web site and asking to buy something. Seems that there has been a lot of that lately. I must confess, I was wondering about the "Re: VAXen available" message... It made now sense to me. Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From esharpe at uswest.net Mon Oct 6 15:18:06 2003 From: esharpe at uswest.net (Ed Sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:19 2005 Subject: Am I seeing things? References: Message-ID: <000d01c38c46$f474cac0$262e98ac@aoldsl.net> and I thought I was the one imagining it! ed! ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Rollins" To: Sent: Monday, October 06, 2003 11:07 AM Subject: Am I seeing things? > Is it just me or are there a lot of people posting to the list > responding to things that are non existent or ancient from an archive > or something? Especially these people mentioning a web site and > asking to buy something. Seems that there has been a lot of that > lately. > > > -- > > /------------------------------------\ > | http://jrollins.tripod.com/ | > | KD7BCY kd7bcy@teleport.com | > \------------------------------------/ > > From jwest at classiccmp.org Mon Oct 6 14:12:48 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:19 2005 Subject: Am I seeing things? References: Message-ID: <00b001c38c3d$d4fdc380$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Yes, there is a public archive of the list postings. I kinda thought that's what the public archives were FOR? I especially like it when they talk about ancient things *S* I filter a lot of these so they never hit the list. But often I let them through because I feel that is what we are here for.. to be a resource. Maybe I'm being too lenient? J > Is it just me or are there a lot of people posting to the list > responding to things that are non existent or ancient from an archive > or something? Especially these people mentioning a web site and > asking to buy something. Seems that there has been a lot of that > lately. --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From jpl15 at panix.com Mon Oct 6 14:30:21 2003 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:19 2005 Subject: 27SF512-70 In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20031006113327.007d6bb0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20031006113327.007d6bb0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 6 Oct 2003, Joe wrote: > Somebody needs to tell this clown that this isn't his private procurement > list! > > Joe Hey Joe... decaf, man - remember: Decaf!! ;} Anyway - do recall that whenever someone Googles for a specific part, it is possible that they get pointed to an old message from Classiccmp in an archive - and so they don't really have any way of knowing that they are adressing a list of amateur collectors - so ya cut 'em some slack a bit.. And just think - what if it was *you* that just happened to have a nice stash of them chips the poor guy is desperate for... woo hoo!! Cheers John From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Oct 6 14:34:46 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:19 2005 Subject: FA: HP 3000 cards and Omnibook Docking Station Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031006153446.007f3d70@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Joe From vcf at siconic.com Mon Oct 6 14:40:51 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:19 2005 Subject: Am I seeing things? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 6 Oct 2003, John Rollins wrote: > Is it just me or are there a lot of people posting to the list > responding to things that are non existent or ancient from an archive > or something? Especially these people mentioning a web site and > asking to buy something. Seems that there has been a lot of that > lately. It comes in spurts. I think Jay is still (hopefully) working on a solution ;) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From waltje at pdp11.nl Mon Oct 6 14:41:37 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:19 2005 Subject: Am I seeing things? In-Reply-To: <000d01c38c46$f474cac0$262e98ac@aoldsl.net> Message-ID: This seems to be coming our way in waves.... ahwell. --f From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Oct 6 14:42:39 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:19 2005 Subject: Am I seeing things? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031006154239.007b9b70@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 11:07 AM 10/6/03 -0700, you wrote: >Is it just me or are there a lot of people posting to the list >responding to things that are non existent or ancient from an archive >or something? They seem to be responding to things out of the archive. Most of them are OLD and a couple of them are really OT. Personally I'd like to filter out any messages from non-members, or at least have them pre-viewed and approved by someone. My $.02 worth, Joe Especially these people mentioning a web site and >asking to buy something. Seems that there has been a lot of that >lately. > > >-- > >/------------------------------------\ >| http://jrollins.tripod.com/ | >| KD7BCY kd7bcy@teleport.com | >\------------------------------------/ > From teoz at neo.rr.com Mon Oct 6 14:45:30 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:19 2005 Subject: Help! need 400k/800k Mac os 6 or 7 diskettes! References: Message-ID: <010b01c38c42$66277d20$3d7ca418@neo.rr.com> I have use my "newer" macs 8500/7500/840av/950/IIfx to make 800k disks for my IIgs and have noticed that the auto inject 1.44 drives use on the older systems (IIfx, 840av, 950) have no problems making disks that are readable on the IIgs while the 8500/7500 non inject floppies cant do it reliably. So your better off using an old quadra to make 800k disks for older machines. I have no idea about writing 400k disks because I dont have any machines that use them. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Oct 6 14:47:09 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:19 2005 Subject: Am I seeing things? In-Reply-To: <00b001c38c3d$d4fdc380$033310ac@kwcorp.com> References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031006154709.007ba540@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 02:12 PM 10/6/03 -0500, you wrote: >Yes, there is a public archive of the list postings. I kinda thought that's >what the public archives were FOR? I especially like it when they talk >about ancient things *S* > >I filter a lot of these so they never hit the list. But often I let them >through because I feel that is what we are here for.. to be a resource. >Maybe I'm being too lenient? Probably. I've replied to a couple of people looking for things and NONE of them has ever responded so I seldom bother any more. Joe From ohh at drizzle.com Mon Oct 6 14:47:07 2003 From: ohh at drizzle.com (O. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:19 2005 Subject: RCS/RI Still In Existence? Message-ID: Does anybody know if the Retrocomputing Society of Rhode Island (http://osfn.org/rcs/) is still around? I've sent a couple of e-mails their way, and tried their phone number, but not with any luck. I saw one of the things on their online "wish-list" up for auction on eBay, and thought about having a go at getting it for them, but it'd be nice to know if they still needed it first. (Not to mention making sure I wasn't bidding _against_ them. ) -O.- From marvin at rain.org Mon Oct 6 14:58:17 2003 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:19 2005 Subject: VCF - Stuff for Sale Message-ID: <3F81C959.8B4B6FAA@rain.org> Rather than post the stuff here, a link to the things I'll be selling at VCF is at: http://www.rain.org/~marvin/vcf.txt As the week goes by, I'll be adding to the list and updating it as necessary. From esharpe at uswest.net Mon Oct 6 16:12:13 2003 From: esharpe at uswest.net (Ed Sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:19 2005 Subject: Am I seeing things? References: <00b001c38c3d$d4fdc380$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <004b01c38c4e$83718ae0$262e98ac@aoldsl.net> no we just got confused as we all belong to both lists.... but it was freaky when it would appear as a group on the other list.... sometimes we forget there are two lists... no problem just tempory confusion all is well! ed! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jay West" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Monday, October 06, 2003 12:12 PM Subject: Re: Am I seeing things? > Yes, there is a public archive of the list postings. I kinda thought that's > what the public archives were FOR? I especially like it when they talk > about ancient things *S* > > I filter a lot of these so they never hit the list. But often I let them > through because I feel that is what we are here for.. to be a resource. > Maybe I'm being too lenient? > > J > > Is it just me or are there a lot of people posting to the list > > responding to things that are non existent or ancient from an archive > > or something? Especially these people mentioning a web site and > > asking to buy something. Seems that there has been a lot of that > > lately. > > --- > [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > > > From RMaxwell at atlantissi.com Mon Oct 6 15:24:35 2003 From: RMaxwell at atlantissi.com (Robert Maxwell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:20 2005 Subject: Intel Programmer IPPS format Message-ID: <9726BA9DE867D51183B900B0D0AB85F8013E4873@INETMAIL> Dave, your hazy memory is great. You just filled in a critical blank that has made a world of difference. Searching the planet for references to "IPPS" turned up nothing, but "OMF" is still quite nicely documented on the Web. My favorite file-format reference, www.wotsit.org, has a document for OMF, as do some other sites. Armed with this knowledge, I can now look at modifying an old Motorola S-record to Intel Hex converter with a new front end to suck up the OMF records and spit them out in Hex. All the best, Bob Maxwell rmaxwell@atlantissi.com Dave Mabry wrote: > Now, as is normal for me, this is hazy, but I think I > remember what you > are talking about. > > Intel used a format they called "object module format" that > had header > information on each block, and several possible blocks. As I recall, > the MCS48 family, due to its limited memory addressibility, used the > same OMF (object module format) as the 8080. > > Naturally, since Intel defined it, all their tools could read > and write > it. IPPS was the name of the software used to read and write EPROMS, > etc, using Intel's iUP-201 programmer. > > All that being said, I think I can help you. If you don't > have anything > that can read and understand Intel's OMF, I do. I have a > working system > that can execute IPPS. There are other utilities in the > Intel operating > system, ISIS-II, that can also do this. I should be able to convert > your OMF file to an Intel HEX format file. Intel HEX is very > common and > most programmers can understand it. It is also block oriented, but > ascii characters rather than pure binary. > > Sorry to be so wordy, but bottom line is this. (into > Technicolor dream > mode) If you send me your OMF file I can convert it to HEX > and send it > back to you. Hope that will help. > > Dave > > Robert Maxwell wrote: > > This will meet the on-topic age requirement, at least... > > > > For programming devices like processors and EPROMS with > an Intel Universal > > Programmer, > > a file format was used, called "IPPS." I need to program > 8749 processors > > from files > > in IPPS format, and have no working Universal Programmer. > > > > The format appears to be a block-oriented binary, with a > file header > > identifying the > > target device, and headers of indeterminate size preceding > sections of > > binary code. > > Nobody I spoke to at Intel recognizes it. > > > > Does anybody remember, or have access to, > documentation/data or (dreaming > > in Technicolor(R)) > > a utility to convert IPPS files into a less-unique format, > say binary or > > Intel Hex? This > > would save me from having to type in hex values from an old > listing to > > regenerate the code. From waltje at pdp11.nl Mon Oct 6 15:27:55 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:20 2005 Subject: Am I seeing things? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 6 Oct 2003, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > It comes in spurts. I think Jay is still (hopefully) working on a > solution ;) Yeah, lets hope Jay's working on his spurts. --f From kd7bcy at teleport.com Mon Oct 6 15:33:49 2003 From: kd7bcy at teleport.com (John Rollins Jr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:20 2005 Subject: DEC cards available Update Message-ID: <11306683.1065472434057.JavaMail.root@waldorf.psp.pas.earthlink.net> Started to go fast! These are still available: National Semiconductor NS638 - memory card with a 50-pin connector on the front Sigma Information Systems DZV11 clone unknown Emulex - marked TU0210401 M7164 KDA50-Q Q-bus SDI adapter 1 of 2 M7606-AF MicroVAX II CPU M7608-BC not in guide? MicroVAX II RAM M7608-BF I have three of these: M3104 DHV11-A Q 8-line Asynchronous Multiplexor, with DMA These have been spoken for: M7551-CA MSV11-QC Q 4-Mbyte 22-bit parity/CSR MOS RAM M7516-YM DELQA-M Q Qbus to Ethernet Turbo Module, Q22 M8053-MA DMV11 Microprogrammed controller (needs one of M5930-M5931) with DDCMP control ROM (point-to-point or multidrop) Thanks! -JR From fernande at internet1.net Mon Oct 6 15:30:40 2003 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:20 2005 Subject: Am I seeing things? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3F81D0F0.9090108@internet1.net> That was a reply to a message that Chuck McMannis posted. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Zane H. Healy wrote: >>Is it just me or are there a lot of people posting to the list responding to things that are non existent or ancient from an archive or something? Especially these people mentioning a web site and asking to buy something. Seems that there has been a lot of that lately. > > > I must confess, I was wondering about the "Re: VAXen available" message... It made now sense to me. > > Zane > From cb at mythtech.net Mon Oct 6 15:37:07 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:20 2005 Subject: Am I seeing things? Message-ID: >I filter a lot of these so they never hit the list. But often I let them >through because I feel that is what we are here for.. to be a resource. >Maybe I'm being too lenient? I'm wondering if you can somehow mark the message as one that came from someone off list. I bring this up, because I've been confused by some and wondering if responses should go onlist or off list. If the poster is off list, then responses should go directly to them, or they won't get their response for a few months until the archives have circulated thru google and the likes. just my thoughts, I'm not trying to imply it needs to be followed. Nor trying to start a discussion on the topic. -chris From cb at mythtech.net Mon Oct 6 15:39:32 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:20 2005 Subject: Help! need 400k/800k Mac os 6 or 7 diskettes! Message-ID: >>Apple stopped having the drives read and write 400 and 800 k disks a >>while ago. > >Actually the System does that... I don't remember when though. Well, yes, I didn't mean to imply that it was a drive limit. Just that Apple stopped letting a user read and write 400 and 800 K disks a while ago (I believe you are right and it was OS 8, but I'm not postive). -chris From jpl15 at panix.com Mon Oct 6 15:44:31 2003 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:20 2005 Subject: Am I seeing things? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 6 Oct 2003, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Mon, 6 Oct 2003, John Rollins wrote: > > > Is it just me or are there a lot of people posting to the list [snippage] > > It comes in spurts. I think Jay is still (hopefully) working on a > solution ;) > As Jay mentioned - I'm not altogether sure that these messages from folks are a Bad Thing - it never hurts to have 'fresh' sources for collection related possiblilties. Recall that the PDP 11/44 system I own was rescued from a Big Corporation (and certain death) due to the ex-sysop finding classiccmp quite by accident. Now, in the case of blatant commercial exploitative type ads, or spam, then of course it should hopefully be diverted to /dev/nul. But I think a little tolerance shoyuld be shown for folks who are just researching parts and systems - at least we can be polite in our explanations. And yes, these type of "I was searching for X and found your site.." messages *do* seem to come in waves... I dunno... Cheers John From geoffr at zipcon.net Mon Oct 6 15:57:51 2003 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:20 2005 Subject: Need IIci cache cards In-Reply-To: References: <200310061042.DAA09486@floodgap.com> Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.2.20031006135647.04a4b0f0@mail.zipcon.net> At 07:47 AM 10/6/03, you wrote: >If I remember the benchmark results correctly, the extra 32k speeds up video >by a few percent, and "Scientific" operations (IE floating point math) by a >few tens of percentage points. > >I've got a 128k cache card and it speeds up everything by quite a bit. >Probably has something to do with the built-in video getting sped up. I have a cache card in my IICX :) ok, so it's an Diimo accellerator with cache on it on an adaptor :) but it speeds everything WAY up... 50 Mhz 030 :) From marvin at rain.org Mon Oct 6 16:07:33 2003 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:20 2005 Subject: Posting times References: <000d01c38c46$f474cac0$262e98ac@aoldsl.net> Message-ID: <3F81D995.9FB4C6DF@rain.org> Anyone else seeing extended times (< 15 minutes or so) before their posts get to the list? Kind of annoying to post something and not see it pop up on the list within a relatively short time!!! From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Oct 6 16:31:41 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:20 2005 Subject: Betr.: Acorn Econet In-Reply-To: from "Eelco Huininga" at Oct 6, 3 09:11:19 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1516 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20031006/6abf51aa/attachment.ksh From dundas at caltech.edu Mon Oct 6 17:08:18 2003 From: dundas at caltech.edu (John A. Dundas III) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:20 2005 Subject: GE 73 bulbs for RL02 Message-ID: Can anyone recommend a good source for the GE 73 bulbs used in the front panel switches of the RL02? A web search turned up Atlanta Light Bulbs. They claim to have them for $0.99/ea, minimum quantity 10. However when you try to check out, the minimum $ order is ~$30. I don't mind buying 10, but 30 is too many and I'm not really short on other bulbs at this time. Any suggestions? Thanks, John From jpl15 at panix.com Mon Oct 6 17:10:18 2003 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:20 2005 Subject: VCF Want: Pertec formatters for Kennedy 9100 Message-ID: As message header states: I'm looking for one or two Pertec formatter cards for Kennedy 91xx series tape drives - with cables, if possible. Have $$$ for same - will be at VCF looking to trade $ for Stuff. Also, I'm looking for 2 or 3 DEC RL02 drives, one at least in good working shape - with an interconnect cable and terminator. Can pick up in Bay Area.... Cheerz John From aek at spies.com Mon Oct 6 17:21:49 2003 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:20 2005 Subject: VCF Want: Pertec formatters for Kennedy 9100 Message-ID: <200310062221.h96MLnbh015108@spies.com> > I'm looking for one or two Pertec formatter > cards for Kennedy 91xx series tape drives - with cables, if possible. 91xx formatters are separate rack mounted boxes (9219) www.spies.com/aek/pdf/kennedy/006-0002-01_9219_formatter.pdf is the manual for the 9219 If you are using these on DEC systems, you may have better luck finding embedded Unibus or Qbus formatters made by Emulex, Plessey, Dilog, etc. From patrick at evocative.com Mon Oct 6 17:23:37 2003 From: patrick at evocative.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:20 2005 Subject: SemiDisk Solid State Disk Emulator Message-ID: Does anyone have a PDF scan of the manual for a SemiDisk solid-state disk emulator? Please contact me if you do... --Patrick From ian_primus at yahoo.com Mon Oct 6 17:24:23 2003 From: ian_primus at yahoo.com (Ian Primus) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:20 2005 Subject: Help! need 400k/800k Mac os 6 or 7 diskettes! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: IIRC, you could no longer use 400k disks as of System 7.6, but you can still use 800k disks up through System 9, provided of course that you have a Mac with an internal floppy drive. The external USB drives are, for the most part, PC clone laptop style drives, and therefore can not read or write the GCR disks. But, you _can_ write 400k floppies on System 7.6 and up with Disk Copy. You can't mount the image, and you can't mount the disk you created, but it does work. Once again, you have to have a Mac with an internal floppy drive. Why Apple stopped offering floppy drives, I don't know. I know that the first peripheral I bought for my G4 was a floppy drive, and I still hate the fact that it's slow as hell, and doesn't have auto eject. Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com On Monday, October 6, 2003, at 04:39 PM, chris wrote: >>> Apple stopped having the drives read and write 400 and 800 k disks a >>> while ago. >> >> Actually the System does that... I don't remember when though. > > Well, yes, I didn't mean to imply that it was a drive limit. Just that > Apple stopped letting a user read and write 400 and 800 K disks a while > ago (I believe you are right and it was OS 8, but I'm not postive). > > -chris > > From aek at spies.com Mon Oct 6 17:56:36 2003 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:20 2005 Subject: Posting times Message-ID: <200310062256.h96Mua2p019520@spies.com> Anyone else seeing extended times (< 15 minutes or so) before their posts get to the list? -- I'm more concerned that the archive sort by date isn't corrected for local time zone. Since the sort by thread doesn't always work right, I just watch the list from the archive, but now the replies can show up in the list before the original question, depending on when the original message was posted. From bshannon at tiac.net Mon Oct 6 18:05:02 2003 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:20 2005 Subject: black paper tape = mylar? References: <00b301c38c08$245e6960$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <3F81F51E.1060507@tiac.net> Mylar paper tape has never come in black, as far as I know. Black paper tape was sold for use with photoelectric paper tape readers like HP's, which work, sometimes with yellow paper (until any oil get on the tape anyway). But the black stuff makes even a sloppy optical reader work great, and it does not kill the edges on your punch like Mylar will do. Jay West wrote: >I was wanting to get some mylar paper tape. There is an auction on Ebay for >6 rolls of "black paper tape"... can one generally assume that black paper >tape is mylar and not just paper? > >The URL is http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2562042672 > >Can anyone advise if this is likely to be mylar or not? > >Regards, > >Jay West > >--- >[This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > > From kittstr at access-4-free.com Sun Oct 5 23:29:54 2003 From: kittstr at access-4-free.com (Andrew Strouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:20 2005 Subject: Fat (512K) Mac Revival? References: <20031005170913.58590.qmail@web13401.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000201c38c5e$c068e460$7d444a43@amscomputer> There doesn't seem to be any battery in the back at all. Where do I go about getting one of those? I haven't cracked the unit open yet but I will and check the power supply. Andrew Strouse ( kittstr@access-4-free.com ) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Al Hartman" To: Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2003 1:09 PM Subject: Re: Fat (512K) Mac Revival? > It could be something as simple as a bad PRAM battery. > There's a little door in the upper back, that has a > battery in it. > > Open it and see if there's a battery in there. If it > hasn't exploded... You probably can try replacing that > as a start. > > Next would be the Power Supply/Analog board. > > But, yes... You should be able to buy a replacement > cheaper than fixing that unit. Though, you might find > buyers for the parts to help fund that. > > Regards, > Al Hartman > > > > From: "Andrew Strouse" > > > > The recent discussion about reviving a Mac SE/30 > > reminded me that I have a "fat mac" in my closet > > collecting dust. I found it after a yard sale a > > few years ago. ( I like to go late and see what > > finds I can get for nothing because the people just > > want the stuff out of their house.) I remember > > when I plugged it in, nothing happened. No sounds, > > lights, bars, patterns, sad/happy macs, etc. Does > > anyone have any suggestions of what to do to > > attempt to get it running. Is it worth it? (I'd > > like to play with it but could I find another one > > that works for less than it will take to fix?) > > It came with a large box of disks, and external > > drive, mouse and keyboard, so it seemed like a > > complete system, except that it doesn't work. > > > > Thanks in advance. > > > > Andrew Strouse > >( kittstr@access-4-free.com ) > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search > http://shopping.yahoo.com > From cb at mythtech.net Mon Oct 6 18:11:46 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:20 2005 Subject: Help! need 400k/800k Mac os 6 or 7 diskettes! Message-ID: >IIRC, you could no longer use 400k disks as of System 7.6, but you can >still use 800k disks up through System 9, provided of course that you >have a Mac with an internal floppy drive. I can't reliably read or write 800K disks in my PM 6500 with OS 9.0.4. Haven't been able to for a few OS versions. Also can't in my PM 9600. It attempts it, and is sometimes works for reading an 800K disk. It can also on occasion write to 800K disks, but it can never format them. It will attempt a format, it will even complete it without complaint... but the disk will be undreadable in machines running older OS versions. If I format in an older machine, I can then get a few writes to the disk before the data is unreadable in an older machine (and if the disk is freshly formatted, then I can usually get one or two reads as well). So based on personal experience, I just chalk it up that Apple stopped letting you do both 400 and 800 (with 400 being right out) >Why Apple stopped >offering floppy drives, I don't know. Cost cutting. They were trying to get the iMac down to as cheap a build as possible, and they knew that most consumers would have little need for a floppy drive in the long run. So it was a place to shave a few bucks off the manufacturing costs. Alas when they choose to do it, it was still a tad premature, as yes, in the LONG run, most consumers wouldn't need a floppy drive... but until they migrated their entire collection of old disks to something else, then they still needed it (but its a typical catch-22... if Apple left the drive in, no consumer would migrate their stuff in anticipation for the removal of the drive, so the consumer wasn't going to stop needing the drive, until right after the drive was no longer there) -chris From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Oct 6 14:32:19 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:20 2005 Subject: memory refresher on PUTR In-Reply-To: "Jay West" "memory refresher on PUTR" (Oct 6, 9:21) References: <017401c38c15$13c53900$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <10310062032.ZM20087@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Oct 6, 9:21, Jay West wrote: > I believe it was a program called PUTR that I used on a PC to read/write > 5.25 floppy disks to exchange data with my PDP-11/23 that had an RX50 drive > in it. Should the PC drive be a 360k floppy or a 1.2m floppy? Ideally, neither: 80-track double density. An RX50 is only single-sided (80 tracks, 10 sectors of 512 bytes per track), but obviously a double-sided drive will do, and that includes a "1.2M" drive if it's capable of doing DD as well as HD. > Wonder if there is some story as to the history of "disc" vs. "disk" :) HP > always used "disc". "disc" is from the Greek "discus", and is (or was, until recently) the more commonly accepted English spelling; "disk" is an Americanism which has spread to the UK. Acorn always used "disc" as well. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Oct 6 18:24:04 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:20 2005 Subject: Morely Electronics Teletext Adapter. In-Reply-To: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) "Morely Electronics Teletext Adapter." (Oct 5, 18:24) References: Message-ID: <10310070024.ZM20222@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Oct 5, 18:24, Tony Duell wrote: > While looking for Econet bits, I found the above-mentioned unit (Morely > Electronics Teletext Adapter). Morley, not Morely :-) > It's clearly a BBC periperal. On the back is Belling-Lee coaxial socket > (standard TV aerial connector), and a piece of 6 way ribbon cable. This > splits, 4 wires go to a 20 pin 2-row IDC header socket (presumably BBC > User Port, the connections would then be +5V, Ground, and 2 lines for I2C > SCL and SDA). The other 2 wires go to a plug to fit the BBC's power > outlet socket, to get 12V. > Does anyone know anything about this unit, and more importantly, anyone > know where I can get the software to use it (it's certainly not > compatable with the Acorn Teletext unit). You need the Advanced Teletext Software ROM, which I've got in my archive. There's also an additional extension ROM. It does neat things like autotuning, and is reputedly rather superior to the Acorn Teletext Adaptor, though not having ever owned a Morley one, I wouldn't really know. Ther'es also some inofrmation on it on The BBC Lives! website. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Oct 6 14:28:15 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:20 2005 Subject: black paper tape = mylar? In-Reply-To: Lyle Bickley "Re: black paper tape = mylar?" (Oct 6, 8:12) References: <00b301c38c08$245e6960$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <200310060812.07141.lbickley@bickleywest.com> Message-ID: <10310062028.ZM20082@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Oct 6, 8:12, Lyle Bickley wrote: > I'd contact the seller and ask them if the tapes are oiled (you can smell the > oil) - if so, they are not mylar. (I've used a lot of that black/oiled tape > - btw, mylar tape is typically not black, IMHO and experience) You can often *feel* the oil. By a curious coincidence, I was talking to a guy, this morning, who still sells paper tape and used to be involved in its manufacture. He told me how it was oiled in bulk, and how they used to do it in small batches for special jobs. I now know how to oil my own :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Oct 6 15:40:03 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:20 2005 Subject: Acorn Econet In-Reply-To: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) "Acorn Econet" (Oct 5, 18:20) References: Message-ID: <10310062140.ZM20108@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Oct 5, 18:20, Tony Duell wrote: > Does anyone have any experience with Acorn Econet (Acorn's low-cost, > fairly low-speed network)? I used to install Econet systems, and upgrade and repair Beebs with Econet. I must have installed or re-installed a few hundred Econet interfaces. A certain large dealer once tried to save money by farming out BBC Model Bs for Econet upgrade jobs to his local ITeC (a sort of training centre of out-of-work youngsters). An upgrade includes lots of 10K, 100K, and 1M resistors, a handful of capacitors, and a bunch of ICs, and on early BBCs most of the passive components get fitted vertically in very tight spaces; not surprisingly, the majority of those upgrades didn't work. I got to be very good at faultfinding on those things before the dealer finally conceded that it would be considerably cheaper to just get me to fit the upgrades in the first place :-) > Digging in my junk box (well, more like junk room :-)), I've found a > couple of Econet clock boxes (one Acorn, one SJ, these supply the data > clock for the network), a terminator, various connector boxes, etc. > Cabling shouldn't be a real problem either, I assume the right cable is 2 > twisted pairs with an overall screen. Ideally, twisted quad stranded with an overall screen and stranded drain wire, but Cat 3 or better is fine so long as you have the fifth (ground) wire and a half-decent screen. The original Econet in Acorn's Market Hill office in Cambridge ran on telephone cable. You do need the ground connection, though -- two pairs isn't enough on their own. > I believe I need a fileserver (== a machine set up as such). Assume I > have Beebs (with Econet interfaces), 6502 and Z80 second processors, A310 > (but no backplane, therefore no expansion), A3000 (no expansion either), > A3010 (in bits, but probably repairable), a couple of Systems (one with > an Exonet interface), and not a lot else. I think I could find the Acorn > SASI/SCSI host interface for the Beeb if pushed, and I have a Beeb with > the Torch SCSI card and SCSIFS. Oh, and an Acorn Econet bridge, but > that's fairly useless at the moment... There are six Acorn file servers, and some from SJ Research. I don't know much about the SJ ones (except that early ones had some compatibility problems) but the Acorn ones (in date order) are: The original Econet Fileserver -- runs on a System 5, uses 2 x 80-track DS SD floppies, formatted in a unique way. I've not got the software for that, and I've never used it. Level 1 Fileserver -- provides LOAD, SAVE, etc for files, and some utilities such as sending messages, viewing screens, etc, but not much more in the way of file services. Runs on an ordinary Model B with disk^Wdisc interface and normally uses two double-sided 80-track drives (but will work with any drive that supports DFS). Limited to whatever the standard DFS floppies hold (ie subject to the normal DFS file limits). Level 2 Filserver -- runs on a Beeb with a 6502 Second Processor, uses one or two DSSD 80-track drives, same disc format as the System 5 server. Not subject to the DFS number-of-files limits, supports random-access files, etc. Level 3 Fileserver -- runs on a Beeb with Beeb with a 6502 Second Processor, ADFS, and a 10MB or 30MB winchester. The winchester is partitioned, and the Econet Fileserver partitiion has a unique filestructure. Needs a dongle, which is also a TOD clock. Most dongles are now dead (and weren't Y2K compliant) but there's a patch to bypas that. It also came with a modified version of CommunITeL viewdata bulleting board software. Stacking Filestore -- a box that looks like the disc unit from a Master Compact (or a Communicator), with a brown smoked Perspex front flap covering twin 3.5" floppies, basically a revamped Level 3 but able to use floppies or a winchester. The flap is also a control switch; open it to shut down the server, close it to restart. It also includes printer server software. The matching winchester is just a small SCSI drive (yes, real SCSI, not SASI) in a matching box, normally a 3.5" 20MB Rodime drive; you can have up to six IIRC. Level 4 Fileserver -- software application that runs on an Archimedes under RISC OS 2 or later. It really wants an A440 or better, but should just about run on an A310. Uses whatever filing systems/media are available to RISC OS, and can act as an Econet/Ethernet bridge. > Any ideas as to what I should use, and where to get the necessary > software. Has anyone ever hacked a PC to work as an Econet fileserver? > The hardware wouldn't be too bad, I think. Level 1, 2 and 3 fileserver software isn't hard to come by if you know someone who has it (hint: you do :-)) The discs are copyable. Level 3 is only useful if you have a suitable winchester amd copro on a Beeb, and you'll need the installer discs (I forget whether it's one or two) *and* the anti-dongle patch (unless you want to reverse engineer one of my resin-encapsulated dongles -- but be warned, I've been told by Those Who Know Such Things that the necessary chips haven't been available for many years). You might be able to download Level 4 from the net somewhere. I think I have a copy -- but not a very good one. It went through a few iterations! > Has anyone ever hacked a PC to work as an Econet fileserver? > The hardware wouldn't be too bad, I think. Nope. The Ecolink ISA card only works under MS-DOS 3.21 (or some similar version) and an 8086 machine hasn't the oomph to make much of an Econet system. It even needs a (6502 -- what else?) processor on the Ecolink card to handle basic network operations. Ecolink cards are genuinely rare -- I have one, Jules R has one, and I know of only a couple of others. > Anything else I should be aware of? By convention, an Econet address is two octets, the upper octet is network number ("0" means "the local net"), the lower is the station number. On Beebs, Atoms, Systems, you set the station number with molex links; on later machines you set it in the CMOS. On Master Series machines, you need a special utility because it's in a protected memory area. Address 255 is the broadcast address; 0 is invalid (sound familiar?). By convention, the fileserver is station 254, and the printer server is 235. In some versions of the NFS or ANFS software, stations above 128 (? memory check) are privileged and can force certain operations on unpriv'd stations. Normal stations can *PROTECT themselves from various ops except from priv'd stations (operations include read/write memory blocks, jump to an execution address, force a file load/save etc -- remember this was designed for classroom use). There are Econet interfaces for Systems, Atoms, Beebs (A, B, B+), Master Series (including Compact), ABCs/Scientifics (built in as you've discovered), Electrons (from HCCS, not Acorn, though), and all of the Archimedes/RISC PC range. The A/B/B+ interfaces are a bag of components. The System one is a Eurocard, the Atom one is a plug-on module (as is the Electron one). The later Master Series and RISC machines ones are a small module. There are two versions of the module: originally Acorn designed it with full collision-detect circuitry, then someone decided it would work fine without, at least on an Arc where the faster processor could do some extra work. Sadly, that wasn't borne out in real life, so after a while they reverted to the original design with CD. Issue 2 and 3 Beebs have a lot of the components mounted vertically to save space; they also have provision for clock and/or terminators on the BBC board. This is not a good idea; the original terminator design was an active device, and doesn't work if there's no power (and neither does the clock, obviously!). Issue 2/3 also need a few track cut/rewires. Issue 4/7 have the components laid out horizontally (more sensible) and no provision for clock or terminator on board. The speed of the net depends on the length, the longer the slower. Max speed is obtained with a short network and an asymmetric mark-space ratio on the clock. Early Acorn clock boxes use a square wave; later ones, and SJ ones, have variable mark/space. Early terminator boxes (small light+dark grey Veroboxes) match the clock boxes and provide active termination. Later terminators, and SJ terminators, are passive: DIN plugs with a few resistors, and inferior. Arcs and later RISC-based machines can, not surprisingly, handle faster networks (up to about 500kHz clock) than Atoms/Systems/Beebs (250kHz clock). Torchnet runs on the same hardware as Econet, but uses its own nearly-compatible protocols. The Acorn Printer Server is a 2732 sideways ROM; it doesn't do queueing or anything fancy (ie it can only handle one job at a time) but works with most printers, from dot-matrix to laserjet. The XOB advanced version handles queueing, as does a later one from Acorn for RISC OS. If the server isn't too busy, FS and PS can be on the same machine. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From tothwolf at concentric.net Mon Oct 6 18:47:12 2003 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:20 2005 Subject: Am I seeing things? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20031006154709.007ba540@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20031006154709.007ba540@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 6 Oct 2003, Joe wrote: > At 02:12 PM 10/6/03 -0500, you wrote: > > > Yes, there is a public archive of the list postings. I kinda thought > > that's what the public archives were FOR? I especially like it when > > they talk about ancient things *S* > > I've replied to a couple of people looking for things and NONE of them > has ever responded so I seldom bother any more. I've responded to a number of people who found old messages related to TIL3xx (TIL306, TIL307, TIL308, TIL311) displays, who either contacted me directly, or posted to the mailing list. Each time I got a response back. Pretty much the only information I've been able to give folks on those parts is to contact Randy Gill, rgill AT innocor.com, who has been having TIL311 compatible parts made. He told me he could have the others made, if there was a demand for at least a few 1000 parts per year. I haven't been able to find any other sources for these displays, though they sometimes turn up surplus. Maybe this info needs to be added to the FAQ somewhere? -Toth From jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to Mon Oct 6 18:34:05 2003 From: jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:20 2005 Subject: memory refresher on PUTR References: <017401c38c15$13c53900$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <3F81FBED.2BD545E8@compsys.to> >Jay West wrote: > I believe it was a program called PUTR that I used on a PC to read/write > 5.25 floppy disks to exchange data with my PDP-11/23 that had an RX50 drive > in it. Should the PC drive be a 360k floppy or a 1.2m floppy? Jerome Fine replies: Look for the John Wilson site at: http://www.dbit.com/pub/putr/ On the PC, other responses are CORRECT - a HD 1.2 MByte floppy drive is REQUIRED! BUT, the media MUST be the DSDD 360 KByte floppies on the PC since the RX50 uses ONLY 10 sectors per track. PUTR will FORMAT both the RX50 and the RX33 media on the same HD 1.2 MByte drive on the PC, but the RX33 media REQUIRES and has the same LLF (Low Level Format) as the HD 1.2 MByte Floppy on the PC or 16 sectors per track and is double-sided, of course. The RX50 requires the DSDD 360 KByte media. Note that the RX50 is still 80 tracks, but is single-sided and that results in 800 blocks on the RX50 media vs 2400 blocks on the RX33 media. Any other questions? Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From alhartman at yahoo.com Mon Oct 6 19:45:56 2003 From: alhartman at yahoo.com (Al Hartman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:20 2005 Subject: Fat (512K) Mac Revival? In-Reply-To: <200310062338.h96NbwH5040359@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20031007004556.6464.qmail@web13405.mail.yahoo.com> Are you saying that the battery housing is there, and it's empty? If so... No need to crack the case to check the power supply. The lack of a battery is why your system isn't booting... Here's a webpage about the various batteries... http://www.sover.net/~jams/Classic_Mac_Workshop/battery.html Regards, Al > From: "Andrew Strouse" > > There doesn't seem to be any battery in the back at > all. Where do I go about getting one of those? I > haven't cracked the unit open yet but I will and > check the power supply. > > Andrew Strouse > ( kittstr@access-4-free.com ) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com From classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk Mon Oct 6 19:48:23 2003 From: classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk (Rob O'Donnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:20 2005 Subject: Betr.: Acorn Econet In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20031007013701.034fa008@pop.freeserve.net> At 09:11 06/10/2003 +0100, Eelco Huininga wrote: >Another option which I've been working on is adding an Ethernet interface to >an BBC, and writing a simple TCP/IP stack so that this BBC can act as an >Econet-Ethernet bridge, but this project is still in the design stage :-) this link might help: http://dunkels.com/adam/uip/index.html tcp/ip for 8 bit micros... linked with http://dunkels.com/adam/contiki/index.html - an 8 bit GUI. I keep looking at it, and wishing I had the time to port it to the Beeb - I used to do a LOT of low-level work on the beeb in the past. > >>> Tony Duell 10/05 7:20 >>> > >Any ideas as to what I should use, and where to get the necessary >software. hardware wise, econet is most simply set up as as daisy chain. You used to be able to get some three-way DIN sockets (three sockets all connected in parallel) which together with a pile of male-male cables could be used to set up a link. You ended up with a lot of wire kicking about... Personally, I just got a pile of chassis-mount sockets, stuck them on a box, and wired the backs all together in parallel. Aformentioned 5-pin DIN male-male leads went from a socket to a BBC Econet interface. A terminator plugs into each end one, and a clock somewhere else. Software wise, I should have somewhere the BBC fileserver software for running on a BBC B micro, with or without hard disc, but in both cases it needs a second processor (or use a Master 128 with the built in 65C102 co-pro). If you need a copy, email me and I'll try and dig it out. Rob. From ian_primus at yahoo.com Mon Oct 6 20:04:51 2003 From: ian_primus at yahoo.com (Ian Primus) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:20 2005 Subject: Help! need 400k/800k Mac os 6 or 7 diskettes! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <412A5C26-F862-11D7-91F9-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> On Monday, October 6, 2003, at 07:11 PM, chris wrote: >> IIRC, you could no longer use 400k disks as of System 7.6, but you can >> still use 800k disks up through System 9, provided of course that you >> have a Mac with an internal floppy drive. > > I can't reliably read or write 800K disks in my PM 6500 with OS 9.0.4. > Haven't been able to for a few OS versions. Also can't in my PM 9600. > It > attempts it, and is sometimes works for reading an 800K disk. It can > also > on occasion write to 800K disks, but it can never format them. It will > attempt a format, it will even complete it without complaint... but the > disk will be undreadable in machines running older OS versions. If I > format in an older machine, I can then get a few writes to the disk > before the data is unreadable in an older machine (and if the disk is > freshly formatted, then I can usually get one or two reads as well). > One thing I have noticed is that the newer manual inject floppy drives aren't as good at writing 800k disks. I have had some that worked perfectly, and others that weren't as great. For the longest time I used a rather hacked Centris 610 running System 8, and I had no problems writing 800k disks, and I used them a lot. The Centris had an auto inject floppy drive. I also haven't had very many problems with 800k disks on my 9600, but I do occasionally get errors. The disks are still useable in the old machines though. Maybe your drive is wearing out? >> Why Apple stopped >> offering floppy drives, I don't know. > > Cost cutting. They were trying to get the iMac down to as cheap a build > as possible, and they knew that most consumers would have little need > for > a floppy drive in the long run. So it was a place to shave a few bucks > off the manufacturing costs. Alas when they choose to do it, it was > still > a tad premature, as yes, in the LONG run, most consumers wouldn't need > a > floppy drive... but until they migrated their entire collection of old > disks to something else, then they still needed it (but its a typical > catch-22... if Apple left the drive in, no consumer would migrate their > stuff in anticipation for the removal of the drive, so the consumer > wasn't going to stop needing the drive, until right after the drive was > no longer there) > Good point, but the biggest problem with the original iMac was that there was no way to get your work off the computer if you didn't have an internet connection or any extra hardware, since they only had CD readers, not burners. I have never owned an iMac, but I have friends who have them, and they all waited until the iMac had a CD burner... Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com From jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to Mon Oct 6 20:08:25 2003 From: jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:20 2005 Subject: memory refresher on PUTR References: <017401c38c15$13c53900$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <3F821209.4BA53D69@compsys.to> >Jay West wrote: > I believe it was a program called PUTR that I used on a PC to read/write > 5.25 floppy disks to exchange data with my PDP-11/23 that had an RX50 drive > in it. Should the PC drive be a 360k floppy or a 1.2m floppy? Jerome Fine replies: Look for the John Wilson site at: http://www.dbit.com/pub/putr/ On the PC, other responses are CORRECT - a HD 1.2 MByte floppy drive is REQUIRED! BUT, the media MUST be the DSDD 360 KByte floppies on the PC since the RX50 uses ONLY 10 sectors per track. PUTR will FORMAT both the RX50 and the RX33 media on the same HD 1.2 MByte drive on the PC, but the RX33 media REQUIRES and has the same LLF (Low Level Format) as the HD 1.2 MByte Floppy on the PC or 16 sectors per track and is double-sided, of course. The RX50 requires the DSDD 360 KByte media. Note that the RX50 is still 80 tracks, but is single-sided and that results in 800 blocks on the RX50 media vs 2400 blocks on the RX33 media. Any other questions? Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From vcf at siconic.com Mon Oct 6 20:11:24 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:20 2005 Subject: VCF - Stuff for Sale In-Reply-To: <3F81C959.8B4B6FAA@rain.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 6 Oct 2003, Marvin Johnston wrote: > Rather than post the stuff here, a link to the things I'll be selling at > VCF is at: > > http://www.rain.org/~marvin/vcf.txt > > As the week goes by, I'll be adding to the list and updating it as > necessary. Marvin, Please also post your list to the VCF BBS. There are a lot of VCF attendees who don't read the list. In fact, a majority of attendees are not CC list members. http://www.vintage.org/2003/main/bbs.php -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From ian_primus at yahoo.com Mon Oct 6 20:12:56 2003 From: ian_primus at yahoo.com (Ian Primus) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:20 2005 Subject: black paper tape = mylar? In-Reply-To: <10310062028.ZM20082@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <623DD246-F863-11D7-91F9-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> On Monday, October 6, 2003, at 03:28 PM, Pete Turnbull wrote: > On Oct 6, 8:12, Lyle Bickley wrote: >> I'd contact the seller and ask them if the tapes are oiled (you can > smell the >> oil) - if so, they are not mylar. (I've used a lot of that > black/oiled tape >> - btw, mylar tape is typically not black, IMHO and experience) > > You can often *feel* the oil. By a curious coincidence, I was talking > to a guy, this morning, who still sells paper tape and used to be > involved in its manufacture. He told me how it was oiled in bulk, and > how they used to do it in small batches for special jobs. I now know > how to oil my own :-) That sounds interesting, how is it oiled? I had thought about that before, and I couldn't imagine just dunking a roll of paper in oil, or spraying it with oil or something. How oily is paper tape anyway? I don't have any oiled tape, although I need to get some for my ASR33. I have been using strips of computer paper to test, but I am worried that the unoiled paper might wear down the punch. I thought about having a stack of junk fanfold greenbar cut into 1" strips on the big machine in at work, but since it wouldn't be oiled, I don't know if it would damage anything. Do you really _need_ oiled tape, or can you get by without it? Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com From cb at mythtech.net Mon Oct 6 20:24:13 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:20 2005 Subject: Fat (512K) Mac Revival? Message-ID: >There doesn't seem to be any battery in the back at all. Where do I go >about getting one of those? I haven't cracked the unit open yet but I will >and check the power supply. Right above the power switch on the back, there should be a removable panel. Its about 2 inches tall and about 1/2 inch wide. I thought there was a little picture of a battery on the panel, but since I don't have a 512 I can't verify if there is indeed one on that model. Pop the panel off and have a look underneath. If there is a battery, see if it is any good -chris From cb at mythtech.net Mon Oct 6 20:46:32 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:20 2005 Subject: Help! need 400k/800k Mac os 6 or 7 diskettes! Message-ID: >Good point, but the biggest problem with the original iMac was that >there was no way to get your work off the computer if you didn't have >an internet connection or any extra hardware, since they only had CD >readers, not burners. I have never owned an iMac, but I have friends >who have them, and they all waited until the iMac had a CD burner... I didn't say Apple's cost cutting idea was well thought out... just that they did it for cost cutting reasons. :-) -chris From jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to Mon Oct 6 21:10:22 2003 From: jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:20 2005 Subject: memory refresher on PUTR References: <017401c38c15$13c53900$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <3F821209.4BA53D69@compsys.to> Message-ID: <3F82208E.1688D791@compsys.to> >"Jerome H. Fine" wrote: > Look for the John Wilson site at: > http://www.dbit.com/pub/putr/ Jerome Fine replies: I forgot to ask - in regard to a file I would like to have! Since PUTR is designed for a DOS environment, it will (or so I understand) create (the actual command is FORMAT) files with a maximum size of 2 GBytes minus one cluster size. Since I am using a FAT32 system, I understand that I am allowed a file of a maximum of 4 GBytes minus one cluster size. Obviously, that is TOO large to download, but when I did a Zip, the compressed file was on 2 MBytes. Even better, when I used bzip2.exe, the compressed file was just over 1500 bytes. The example I used was a file with all zeros that was 2,147,450,880 bytes which was Zipped to 2,084,166 bytes. When I used bzip2.exe, the file was ONLY 1518 bytes. What I wish to have is a file that is all zeros and is exactly 2,147,483,648 bytes. I imagine that a Zipped file should also be about 2 MBytes and that a file compressed with bzip2 would be about 1500 bytes. Obviously a FAT32 file system is required. Thank you in advance to anyone who can help! I an an RT-11 addict and I want to spend my time with that operating system. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Oct 6 21:25:40 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:20 2005 Subject: Help! need 400k/800k Mac os 6 or 7 diskettes! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20031006192220.M58501@newshell.lmi.net> On Mon, 6 Oct 2003, chris wrote: > I didn't say Apple's cost cutting idea was well thought out... just that > they did it for cost cutting reasons. Was Jobs in charge at the time? Look at the characteristics of machines designed under his leadership: (ALL expansion external, non-standard or no floppies) Lisa "twiggy" Next Barium Ferrite 2.8M (4M unformatted) iMac? From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Oct 6 18:45:44 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:20 2005 Subject: 27SF512-70 In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.32.20031006113327.007d6bb0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20031006113327.007d6bb0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031006194544.007db100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 03:30 PM 10/6/03 -0400, John wrote: > > >On Mon, 6 Oct 2003, Joe wrote: > >> Somebody needs to tell this clown that this isn't his private procurement >> list! >> >> Joe > > > > >Hey Joe... decaf, man - remember: Decaf!! ;} > > Anyway - do recall that whenever someone Googles for a specific part, it >is possible that they get pointed to an old message from Classiccmp in an >archive - and so they don't really have any way of knowing that they are >adressing a list of amateur collectors - so ya cut 'em some slack a bit.. > > And just think - what if it was *you* that just happened to have a nice >stash of them chips the poor guy is desperate for... I think I do. But I'm keeping 'em! :-) Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Oct 6 18:49:55 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:20 2005 Subject: VCF Want: Pertec formatters for Kennedy 9100 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031006194955.007db560@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 06:10 PM 10/6/03 -0400, you wrote: > > > As message header states: I'm looking for one or two Pertec formatter >cards for Kennedy 91xx series tape drives - with cables, if possible. Wha tdo they look like and are they part of the Kennedy drive or are they mounted elsewhere? I don't know anything about Kennedy drives but I frequently see them in the scrap places. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Oct 6 22:15:05 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:20 2005 Subject: black paper tape = mylar? In-Reply-To: <10310062028.ZM20082@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <"Re: black paper tape = mylar?"@tampabay.rr.com> <00b301c38c08$245e6960$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <200310060812.07141.lbickley@bickleywest.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031006231505.007f21e0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 08:28 PM 10/6/03 +0100, you wrote: >On Oct 6, 8:12, Lyle Bickley wrote: >> I'd contact the seller and ask them if the tapes are oiled (you can >smell the >> oil) - if so, they are not mylar. (I've used a lot of that >black/oiled tape >> - btw, mylar tape is typically not black, IMHO and experience) > >You can often *feel* the oil. By a curious coincidence, I was talking >to a guy, this morning, who still sells paper tape and used to be >involved in its manufacture. He told me how it was oiled in bulk, and >how they used to do it in small batches for special jobs. I now know >how to oil my own :-) What kind of oil do they use on it? Joe > >-- >Pete Peter Turnbull > Network Manager > University of York > From jpl15 at panix.com Mon Oct 6 22:39:39 2003 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:20 2005 Subject: VCF Want: Pertec formatters for Kennedy 9100 In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20031006194955.007db560@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20031006194955.007db560@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 6 Oct 2003, Joe wrote: > At 06:10 PM 10/6/03 -0400, you wrote: > > > > > > As message header states: I'm looking for one or two Pertec formatter > >cards for Kennedy 91xx series tape drives - with cables, if possible. > > Wha tdo they look like and are they part of the Kennedy drive or are > they mounted elsewhere? I don't know anything about Kennedy drives but I > frequently see them in the scrap places. > I have used the wrong terminology, forgive me List! I meant the card that goes in a Kennedy drive that attaches to the drive electronics and has headers for the cables that go *to* the formatter card, which I have - a Dilog Unibus card. So if you see a Kennedy 9100 lying dead in some scrapyard - it's the card that mounts on top of the (blower housing?) unit, under, and in the middle of, the card cages. It's not in the Manual, since it's specific to the interface installed on the drive... it would actually be covered in the formatter manual, I presume. Anyway, if you see such a beast - I would like to have a few of them, one to use and some for parts, along with the cables that go from the card to the drive electronics - not to mention a set of Pertec cables to go from the card to the 11/44 CPU. I will certainly pay all costs involved with you travelling, rescuing, packing, and shipping the aforementioned Goodies. Thanks!!! John From classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk Tue Oct 7 02:01:52 2003 From: classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk (Rob O'Donnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:20 2005 Subject: Morely Electronics Teletext Adapter. In-Reply-To: <10310070024.ZM20222@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20031007075605.042f1008@pop.freeserve.net> At 00:24 07/10/2003 +0100, Pete Turnbull wrote: >On Oct 5, 18:24, Tony Duell wrote: > > While looking for Econet bits, I found the above-mentioned unit >(Morely > > Electronics Teletext Adapter). > >Morley, not Morely :-) > > > It's clearly a BBC periperal. On the back is Belling-Lee coaxial >socket > > (standard TV aerial connector), and a piece of 6 way ribbon cable. >This > > splits, 4 wires go to a 20 pin 2-row IDC header socket (presumably >BBC > > User Port, the connections would then be +5V, Ground, and 2 lines for >I2C > > SCL and SDA). The other 2 wires go to a plug to fit the BBC's power > > outlet socket, to get 12V. > > > Does anyone know anything about this unit, and more importantly, >anyone > > know where I can get the software to use it (it's certainly not > > compatable with the Acorn Teletext unit). I've got what I believe to be one of these buried in my boxes somewhere too.... but just a bare board, with several of the wires to the ribbon cable detached from the board.... I would be very grateful if you were able to open it up and take a pic of where all the wires go, as there was no obvious row of pins to connect to. It looked somewhat.. messy.. to me. Then, when I have time to go digging through the boxes again, I can finally fix it (after about 15 years of waiting!) >You need the Advanced Teletext Software ROM, which I've got in my >archive. There's also an additional extension ROM. It does neat >things like autotuning, and is reputedly rather superior to the Acorn >Teletext Adaptor, though not having ever owned a Morley one, I wouldn't >really know. Ther'es also some inofrmation on it on The BBC Lives! >website. When I had mine working, many many years back, yes, it was definitely better. Lots more fun things you could do. Shame I can't remember them now ... Rob. From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue Oct 7 02:39:25 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:20 2005 Subject: black paper tape = mylar? In-Reply-To: Ian Primus "Re: black paper tape = mylar?" (Oct 6, 21:12) References: <623DD246-F863-11D7-91F9-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <10310070839.ZM20635@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Oct 6, 21:12, Ian Primus wrote: > On Monday, October 6, 2003, at 03:28 PM, Pete Turnbull wrote: > > On Oct 6, 8:12, Lyle Bickley wrote: > >> I'd contact the seller and ask them if the tapes are oiled (you can > > smell the > >> oil) - if so, they are not mylar. > > You can often *feel* the oil. By a curious coincidence, I was talking > > to a guy, this morning, who still sells paper tape and used to be > > involved in its manufacture. He told me how it was oiled in bulk, and > > how they used to do it in small batches for special jobs. > That sounds interesting, how is it oiled? I had thought about that > before, and I couldn't imagine just dunking a roll of paper in oil, or > spraying it with oil or something. How oily is paper tape anyway? Commercially, the oil is sort of printed onto the paper. The paper is passed over an oily roller before being wound onto the final reel. The film of oil on the roller is quite thin, and the quantity is controlled by a system of additional rollers between an oil reservoir and the applicator roller; just like the system used for ink on an offset litho machine. That's what I was thinking about replicating, to oil my own tape, because it's much easier to get unoiled tape here. For very small batches, I was told that they sometimes just dunked the 1" wide reels of tape in an oil bath. If it's wound properly (it should be moderately tight, not slack) the reel will soak up oil over a period of a few days, without excess oil remaining between the layers. The trick, I was told, is to know how long to leave it so that the oil penetrates from the edges of the strip right to the centre. I said you can often feel the oil -- I didn't mean there's a film left on the surface. It typically has a slight sheen, and appears slightly translucent. If you slide a strip of oiled tape through your fingers it should feel smooth, but not leave you with oil on your fingers. Think about the amount of oil you'd want to lubricate the mechanism to punch a few yards of tape: not much. To answer Joe's question, the oil is a light machine oil. I'd guess it's about ISO 30, which is about SAE 5, or less. > I don't have any oiled tape, although I need to get some for my ASR33. I > have been using strips of computer paper to test, but I am worried that > the unoiled paper might wear down the punch. I thought about having a > stack of junk fanfold greenbar cut into 1" strips on the big machine in > at work, but since it wouldn't be oiled, I don't know if it would > damage anything. Do you really _need_ oiled tape, or can you get by > without it? It'll work, as you've obviously discovered, but from all acounts will make the punches wear faster. Greenbar is also much thinner than proper tape. Interestingly, I was told (this guy used to work in a place where 20+ people produced tape, full-time) that most European equipment specified unoiled tape, and generally only American-made equipment needed oiled tape. I'm not sure if that's because American equipment needed the extra lubrication, or if it's something to do with dust, maybe oily dust is considered too abrasive to be allowed to work its way into small mechanisms, or maybe Europeans just designed better lubrication systems ;-) Talking of dust (well, nearly), has anyone (preferably in the UK) got a spare chad box for an ASR33? -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From eric at brouhaha.com Tue Oct 7 06:28:41 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:20 2005 Subject: Help! need 400k/800k Mac os 6 or 7 diskettes! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <39656.64.169.63.74.1065526121.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> >>Apple stopped having the drives read and write 400 and 800 k disks a >>while ago. > > Actually the System does that... I don't remember when though. I > think it might have been System 8 that stopped reading 400k, The software support went away, but also they stopped making drives (and controller chips) that can handle the 400K and 800K formats. Since they used variable motor speed on the 400K, 800K, and Superdrive (FDHD), they could keep a roughly constant flux density on the track. But when you try to read or write that on a fixed-speed drive, such as a 1440K drive in a PC, or any recent Mac floppy drive, the frequency required to match the flux density of 400K/800K disk format is outside the range that the drive electronics can reliably handle. Reading can sometimes be done, but writing is very problematic. From waltje at pdp11.nl Tue Oct 7 08:00:30 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:20 2005 Subject: WHO? (was: RE: Help! need 400k/800k Mac os 6 or 7 diskettes!) In-Reply-To: <39656.64.169.63.74.1065526121.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: I lost track of this thread - who needed those diskettes? I just found a box (waaah! another box!) of oldish Mac stuff at a customer's place, and that seems to have the old System disks - were part of the IIcx kit I believe.... --f From cb at mythtech.net Tue Oct 7 08:59:28 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:20 2005 Subject: Help! need 400k/800k Mac os 6 or 7 diskettes! Message-ID: >The software support went away, but also they stopped making drives >(and controller chips) that can handle the 400K and 800K formats. >Since they used variable motor speed on the 400K, 800K, and Superdrive >(FDHD), they could keep a roughly constant flux density on the track. >But when you try to read or write that on a fixed-speed drive, such >as a 1440K drive in a PC, or any recent Mac floppy drive, the frequency >required to match the flux density of 400K/800K disk format is outside >the range that the drive electronics can reliably handle. Reading can >sometimes be done, but writing is very problematic. That probably explains why my 6500 and 9600 have problems with 800K disks. -chris From rhudson at cnonline.net Tue Oct 7 09:24:24 2003 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:20 2005 Subject: WHO? (was: RE: Help! need 400k/800k Mac os 6 or 7 diskettes!) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tuesday, October 7, 2003, at 08:00 AM, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > I lost track of this thread - who needed those diskettes? I just found > a box (waaah! another box!) of oldish Mac stuff at a customer's place, > and that seems to have the old System disks - were part of the IIcx kit > I believe.... > > --f > > > Was me Fred, They have to be low density and I would be interested in any software on 400K or 800K disks... My SE is currently running 7.1 but it's incomplete, it doesn't see the cdrom on the SCSI chain. From waltje at pdp11.nl Tue Oct 7 09:45:59 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:20 2005 Subject: WHO? (was: RE: Help! need 400k/800k Mac os 6 or 7 diskettes!) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 7 Oct 2003, Ron Hudson wrote: > Was me Fred, They have to be low density and I would be interested in > any software on 400K or 800K disks... > > My SE is currently running 7.1 but it's incomplete, it doesn't see the > cdrom on the SCSI chain. I'll grab all that stuff tonight, and go through it in the morning to see what all is there.. probably all their software since, oh, 1992 or so, when they started with Mac's. --f From cb at mythtech.net Tue Oct 7 10:33:44 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:21 2005 Subject: WHO? (was: RE: Help! need 400k/800k Mac os 6 or 7 diskettes!) Message-ID: >I'll grab all that stuff tonight, and go through it in the morning >to see what all is there.. probably all their software since, oh, >1992 or so, when they started with Mac's. It will probably all be on 1.4 disks and of no use to Ron. At least not until he gets a Mac with a SuperDrive that can read the larger disks. -chris From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Oct 7 10:13:41 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:21 2005 Subject: FA: Hyperion compuer, SUN cards, DEC cards Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031007111341.007cb6c0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Just finished listing a Hyperion computer and some SUN interface cards (and a Judson magneto!) on E-bay. I will be adding a LOT of DEC cards soon. Joe From chd_1 at nktelco.net Tue Oct 7 11:42:47 2003 From: chd_1 at nktelco.net (Charles H. Dickman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:21 2005 Subject: DEC Pro 380 Info Request Message-ID: <3F82ED07.9020203@nktelco.net> I now have a DEC Professional 380 that was originally a VAX Console. Inspecting it, I find a floppy interface, a Winchester interface, and an RTI interface (used for the VAX I think). The disk is an RD52 with a big piece of red tape that says TOP SECRET. I have lots of questions.... After looking for pinouts, I have attached a NEC Multisync 3D monitor and an LK201 keyboard to the VIDEO 1 port. During the self test I get an error saying a key is stuck on the keyboard. This may indeed be true, I have not tested the keyboard before. It also says hit to continue. The keyboard has no key. I suspect there were various markings for the keycaps. Any suggestion on which key might be ? What are the monochrome monitor specifications (horizontal frequency, vertical frequency, etc)? It looks like the NEC 3D can barely get the correct sync. This monitor is a bit old and when it warms up it loses sync. Not sure if this is a problem with the monitor, or I am just stretching its specs too much. A NEC XV17 I tried would not even begin to sync. I read that the printer port is also a console for the Pro. After finding the pinouts, I connected a terminal to the port and a break dropped me into ODT. Is there microPDP-11/83 style firmware in there somewhere that I can use on the PR 1 port or do I have to use the keyboard and video? Using ODT, I can see that there are 512kB of memory. The RTI seems interesting, but I have not seen any pinouts for the 62 pin connector. From what I can find there are two serial ports, a 24 line bi-directional I/O port and an IEEE-488 port. Pretty cool, but useless without a pinout... -chuck From arcarlini at iee.org Tue Oct 7 12:00:16 2003 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:21 2005 Subject: DEC Pro 380 Info Request In-Reply-To: <3F82ED07.9020203@nktelco.net> Message-ID: <002301c38cf4$7b6fa8d0$5b01a8c0@athlon> > After looking for pinouts, I have attached a NEC Multisync 3D monitor > and an LK201 keyboard to the VIDEO 1 port. During the self > test I get an > error saying a key is stuck on the keyboard. This may indeed > be true, I > have not tested the keyboard before. It also says hit to > continue. The keyboard has no key. I suspect there > were various > markings for the keycaps. Any suggestion on which key might > be ? You can find some LK201/VR201 info (mostly schematics) at http://www.pdp11.nl/documentation/ (The Rainbow used the same kbd/monitor IIRC) > The RTI seems interesting, but I have not seen any pinouts for the 62 > pin connector. From what I can find there are two serial ports, a 24 > line bi-directional I/O port and an IEEE-488 port. Pretty cool, but > useless without a pinout... You can find some Nautilus (VAX 85xx/8700/8800) info at: http://208.190.133.201/decimages/ (that's what these things were often attached to as a console). -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org > From aek at spies.com Tue Oct 7 12:12:29 2003 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:21 2005 Subject: VCF Want: Pertec formatters for Kennedy 9100 Message-ID: <200310071712.h97HCTSk028770@spies.com> I have used the wrong terminology, forgive me List! I meant the card that goes in a Kennedy drive that attaches to the drive electronics and has headers for the cables that go *to* the formatter card -- What you are looking for is the "Multiple Transport Adapter, Type 4147" which converts the dual 22 pin connectors to the read/write/control connector configuration. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Oct 7 13:08:06 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:21 2005 Subject: Acorn Econet In-Reply-To: <10310062140.ZM20108@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> from "Pete Turnbull" at Oct 6, 3 09:40:03 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 4932 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20031007/04cf8e4a/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Oct 7 13:12:37 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:21 2005 Subject: Morely Electronics Teletext Adapter. In-Reply-To: <10310070024.ZM20222@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> from "Pete Turnbull" at Oct 7, 3 00:24:04 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 831 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20031007/d75d0e81/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Oct 7 13:15:17 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:21 2005 Subject: Betr.: Acorn Econet In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20031007013701.034fa008@pop.freeserve.net> from "Rob O'Donnell" at Oct 7, 3 01:48:23 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 888 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20031007/a9ce3f79/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Oct 7 13:28:49 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:21 2005 Subject: Morely Electronics Teletext Adapter. In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20031007075605.042f1008@pop.freeserve.net> from "Rob O'Donnell" at Oct 7, 3 08:01:52 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2082 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20031007/b515b722/attachment.ksh From pat at purdueriots.com Tue Oct 7 13:55:19 2003 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:21 2005 Subject: DEC Pro 380 Info Request In-Reply-To: <3F82ED07.9020203@nktelco.net> References: <3F82ED07.9020203@nktelco.net> Message-ID: <200310071355.20031.pat@purdueriots.com> On Tuesday 07 October 2003 11:42, Charles H. Dickman wrote: > I now have a DEC Professional 380 that was originally a VAX Console. > Inspecting it, I find a floppy interface, a Winchester interface, and an > RTI interface (used for the VAX I think). The disk is an RD52 with a big > piece of red tape that says TOP SECRET. Just about anything marked "TOP SECRET" must be cool : ). > What are the monochrome monitor specifications (horizontal frequency, > vertical frequency, etc)? It looks like the NEC 3D can barely get the > correct sync. This monitor is a bit old and when it warms up it loses > sync. Not sure if this is a problem with the monitor, or I am just > stretching its specs too much. A NEC XV17 I tried would not even begin > to sync. You should, actually, be able to connect it to a composite NTSC monitor. The sync rates are the same as or very close to those used on USA analog TV signals. That's what I used for a display on my PRO 380. > I read that the printer port is also a console for the Pro. After > finding the pinouts, I connected a terminal to the port and a break > dropped me into ODT. Is there microPDP-11/83 style firmware in there > somewhere that I can use on the PR 1 port or do I have to use the > keyboard and video? Most apps on the PRO 380 expected you to use the video console, with the possible exception of some debuggers, and custom SYSGEN'd copies of RT11 (or any other DEC OS's that'd run on it). Bascially, you'll want to use a keyboard and monitor, not a serial console. -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ From rhudson at cnonline.net Tue Oct 7 14:27:29 2003 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:21 2005 Subject: WHO? (was: RE: Help! need 400k/800k Mac os 6 or 7 diskettes!) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4A6FC5C7-F8FC-11D7-B4DB-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> On Tuesday, October 7, 2003, at 09:45 AM, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > On Tue, 7 Oct 2003, Ron Hudson wrote: > >> Was me Fred, They have to be low density and I would be interested in >> any software on 400K or 800K disks... >> >> My SE is currently running 7.1 but it's incomplete, it doesn't see the >> cdrom on the SCSI chain. > I'll grab all that stuff tonight, and go through it in the morning > to see what all is there.. probably all their software since, oh, > 1992 or so, when they started with Mac's. > > --f > > Of course once I get the CDRom working, I can write CDs with my iBook. From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue Oct 7 15:09:44 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:21 2005 Subject: Acorn Econet In-Reply-To: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) "Re: Acorn Econet" (Oct 7, 19:08) References: Message-ID: <10310072109.ZM21159@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Oct 7, 19:08, Tony Duell wrote: > > > > On Oct 5, 18:20, Tony Duell wrote: > > Ideally, twisted quad stranded with an overall screen and stranded > > drain wire, but Cat 3 or better is fine so long as you have the fifth > > RIght. And presumably you can 'get way' with more on shorter networks. Indeed. I once ran a whole classroom (about 16 Beebs, I think) using cables made up of a short length, about 6", of thin screened 4-core with a DIN inline socket on one end, the other end going to a DIN plug to which I also soldered a longer (3'-6') length of the same wire, ending in another DIN plug. A daisy-chain of those worked fine at full speed. Later Econet starter kits used Y-adaptors (3 DIN sockets in a Y shape) and low-cost DIN cables (as often used for low-end MIDI systems, cassette recorders, etc). > > Level 2 Filserver -- runs on a Beeb with a 6502 Second Processor, uses > > > Level 3 Fileserver -- runs on a Beeb with Beeb with a 6502 Second > > Processor, ADFS, and a 10MB or 30MB winchester. The winchester is > > I do have a 6502 second processor, so these are possible... > > Does it _have_ to be the 10 or 30 Mbyte unit? What about a 20Mbyte ST225, > for example. The Acorn hardware certainly supports that. No, I don't remember ever trying to install one on a 20MB or any size other than 10MB or 30MB, but I don't see any reason to suppose it might not work. You just partition the disk in the propotions you want for ADFS and Econet FS, and then install the fileserver software. > > partitioned, and the Econet Fileserver partition has a unique > > filestructure. Needs a dongle, which is also a TOD clock. Most > > dongles are now dead (and weren't Y2K compliant) but there's a patch > > What fails in them, or isn't it known? *I* don't know, but I'm sure someone does. You might find something from Google. I *think* there may be a battery of some sort, but that's not the whole problem. > > The A/B/B+ interfaces are a bag of components. > > Ohterwise known as 'there are spare spaces on the PCB for the Econet > components, get soldering' :-) There are a couple of tracks to cut/jumper on some PCBs, but basically, yes. > > The System one is a Eurocard, the Atom one is a plug-on > > One of my Atoms has the genuine Atom interface, another has a System > Econet card hooked up to the expansion bus (which is basically compatible > with the System bus). Very nice :-) > The B+ (in the ACW) has PCB positions for the collision-detect comparator > chip, etc, but they're not fitted.... It's worth doing. > I think the Acorn clock and terminator share the same PCB, just with > different components fitted. The old ones do, yes. One of mine has both sets of components, you'll not be surprised to hear. > Incidentally, if you use Acorn hardware throughout, do you need 3 > 'veroboxes' -- a clock and 2 terminators? See above :-) In theory, yes, but on a very short net, you might not even need the second terminator. > If you use SJ, I assume you use the clock and 2 terminator plugs. Yes, though it doesn't matter which clock you mate with which terminators. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue Oct 7 15:11:19 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:21 2005 Subject: Morely Electronics Teletext Adapter. In-Reply-To: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) "Re: Morely Electronics Teletext Adapter." (Oct 7, 19:12) References: Message-ID: <10310072111.ZM21162@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Oct 7, 19:12, Tony Duell wrote: > What does the extension ROM add? Apart from auto tuning? I'm not sure. The manual for the extension is on the net at The BBC Lives! but it's a pretty big PDF file :-( -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk Tue Oct 7 16:00:33 2003 From: classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk (Rob O'Donnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:21 2005 Subject: Betr.: Acorn Econet In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.1.6.0.20031007013701.034fa008@pop.freeserve.net> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20031007214958.02c2e1c0@pop.freeserve.net> At 19:15 07/10/2003 +0100, Tony Duell wrote: > > Personally, I just got a pile of chassis-mount sockets, stuck them on a > > box, and wired the backs all together in parallel. Aformentioned 5-pin > DIN > >OK, sounds simple enough. I assume you could add the termination >components directly on the back of the sockets too... I assume so .... I had made up the "bunch of resistors" version which I just plugged in the end sockets. > > male-male leads went from a socket to a BBC Econet interface. A > terminator > >Do I have to use the twisted pair cable for the drop leads, or can I get >away with, say, audio cables? I am sure that most of the leads I used in the past were audio leads ... I've certainly used them for that as well...! Specifications are wonderful things, but you can get away with murder in practice. We're not talking UDMA 166 here ... :-) > > plugs into each end one, and a clock somewhere else. > > Just while I think about it. The clock box I still have is a modified acorn active terminator - even says that on the outside, with a sticker over it. Circuit board inside is obviously dual purpose, but the clock circuit is a bodge - a 555 floating in mid-air, with a few discrete components, and eventually some bits making their way to the circuit board to connect up... I ran about eight machines in my bedroom on all this once.. four user BBS, multi-user games, etc.. those were fun days :-) > > Software wise, I should have somewhere the BBC fileserver software for > > running on a BBC B micro, with or without hard disc, but in both cases it > > needs a second processor (or use a Master 128 with the built in 65C102 > co-pro). >I do have the 6502 second processor somewhere (in fact the only one of >the 4 Acorn ones that I am missing is the 32016 one). > >-tony I've not got one of those either ... indeed, only got a 6502, and the ARM.. gosh, it's a long time since I had the econet running... I used it with an Amcom 10Mb hard disc, btw, so the L3 fileserver will obviously work with other drives (to answer a q in another post). Maybe when I'm rich, I'll have the room to set all this stuff up again... Rob From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Oct 7 17:46:02 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:21 2005 Subject: Betr.: Acorn Econet In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20031007214958.02c2e1c0@pop.freeserve.net> from "Rob O'Donnell" at Oct 7, 3 10:00:33 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3362 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20031007/684a1818/attachment.ksh From kittstr at access-4-free.com Tue Oct 7 01:14:22 2003 From: kittstr at access-4-free.com (Andrew Strouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:21 2005 Subject: Fat (512K) Mac Revival? References: Message-ID: <000201c38d28$09f78310$16444a43@amscomputer> Sorry I wasn't clear in my last message. My door is non-existent and there is no battery in the back. I wondered what that hole was with the contacts. I have ordered on from Radio Shack and they say it will be at my door by Friday. We shall see if that helps. Thanks to everyone who responded. Andrew Strouse ( kittstr@access-4-free.com ) ----- Original Message ----- From: "chris" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts " Sent: Monday, October 06, 2003 9:24 PM Subject: Re: Fat (512K) Mac Revival? > >There doesn't seem to be any battery in the back at all. Where do I go > >about getting one of those? I haven't cracked the unit open yet but I will > >and check the power supply. > > Right above the power switch on the back, there should be a removable > panel. Its about 2 inches tall and about 1/2 inch wide. I thought there > was a little picture of a battery on the panel, but since I don't have a > 512 I can't verify if there is indeed one on that model. > > Pop the panel off and have a look underneath. If there is a battery, see > if it is any good > > -chris > > > From chd_1 at nktelco.net Tue Oct 7 18:33:29 2003 From: chd_1 at nktelco.net (Charles H. Dickman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:21 2005 Subject: LK201 key stuck Message-ID: <3F834D49.9010503@nktelco.net> I have been working on a DEC Pro 380 and the LK201 keyboard I have causes the Pro to report a stuck key and hang. So I opened up the keyboard thinking I could clean out whatever had jammed in there. Looking at it, I don't quite know how this thing works. Each key is supported by a "cantilever" spring. This spring has a piece that looks like it has a contact of some sort, but this is all on top of a layer of rubber and it doesn't even look like the "contact" touches the rubber. Below the rubber is a piece of clear, flexible plastic with circuits on it. So does anybody know how this thing works? Contacts? Capacitive? Inductive? Has anybody ever fixed one? -chuck From wonko at 4amlunch.net Tue Oct 7 20:46:28 2003 From: wonko at 4amlunch.net (Brian Hechinger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:21 2005 Subject: AlphaServer 4000/4100 In-Reply-To: ; from vance@neurotica.com on Sat, Oct 04, 2003 at 02:58:46AM -0400 References: Message-ID: <20031007214628.C26550@zill.net> On Sat, Oct 04, 2003 at 02:58:46AM -0400, vance@neurotica.com wrote: > > I was perusing some old DEC brochures, and I read that the AlphaServer > 4000 can be field upgraded to an AlphaServer 4100. How does one go about > doing that? if i remember correctly, it takes a backplane swap. -brian -- "It's like a Koala bear crapped a rainbow in my brain." -- Captain Murphy - Sealab 2021 - From wonko at 4amlunch.net Tue Oct 7 20:48:28 2003 From: wonko at 4amlunch.net (Brian Hechinger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:21 2005 Subject: PDP 11/73 SLU In-Reply-To: <1065054248.13320.3.camel@unix>; from cmcnabb@4mcnabb.net on Wed, Oct 01, 2003 at 08:24:08PM -0400 References: <200310010220.h912Kq9E019657@onyx.spiritone.com> <3F7AFDCD.4050101@srv.net> <20031001114328.M18098@zill.net> <10310012133.ZM13256@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <1065054248.13320.3.camel@unix> Message-ID: <20031007214828.D26550@zill.net> On Wed, Oct 01, 2003 at 08:24:08PM -0400, Christopher McNabb wrote: > > It is really pretty useless for me, since the EGA monitors all appear to > be toast and I wouldn't be able to use VTServer through the custom EGA > thing. pull the EGA thingie, and you might be able to cram enough "regular" PDP-11 bits into it to get it bootstraping correctly and most importantly trying to use a serial port for console. the /73 is a fabulous machine, don't give up on it too quickly. :) > Interestingly, though, is the fact that this custom card also interfaces > into a very large board that I believe is a vector processor. ooooohhhh, i would be VERY interested to know what that is and if there were a way that we could play with it. :) -brian -- "It's like a Koala bear crapped a rainbow in my brain." -- Captain Murphy - Sealab 2021 - From wonko at 4amlunch.net Tue Oct 7 20:49:12 2003 From: wonko at 4amlunch.net (Brian Hechinger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:21 2005 Subject: PDP 11/73 SLU In-Reply-To: <10310012133.ZM13256@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com>; from pete@dunnington.u-net.com on Wed, Oct 01, 2003 at 09:33:07PM +0100 References: <200310010220.h912Kq9E019657@onyx.spiritone.com> <3F7AFDCD.4050101@srv.net> <20031001114328.M18098@zill.net> <10310012133.ZM13256@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <20031007214912.E26550@zill.net> On Wed, Oct 01, 2003 at 09:33:07PM +0100, Pete Turnbull wrote: > > Yes and no. There is a dual-height version of the 11/73 (KDJ11-A) > which carries the processor, MMU, FPA, cache control, etc, but no > bootstrap, SLUs, or line-tme clock. It was commonly sold as an OEM > product or as an upgrade to 11/23 systems. There is also quad-height > version (KDJ11-B), the same board as as the 11/83, but (if sold as an > 11/73) it has a 15MHz crystal instead of 18MHz, and would originally > have had different bootstrap ROMs. ahh, ok, that explains it. i am only familiar with the KDJ11-A, i've never held a -B in my hands. -brian -- "It's like a Koala bear crapped a rainbow in my brain." -- Captain Murphy - Sealab 2021 - From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue Oct 7 21:00:40 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:21 2005 Subject: anyone notice this gorgeous piece? Message-ID: <000701c38d3f$fbde93f0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3050481627&category=1479 CDC 97xx disc drive. Looks very clean. From cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net Tue Oct 7 21:10:56 2003 From: cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net (cmcnabb@4mcnabb.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:21 2005 Subject: PDP 11/73 SLU In-Reply-To: <20031007214828.D26550@zill.net> References: <1065054248.13320.3.camel@unix>; from cmcnabb@4mcnabb.net on Wed, Oct 01, 2003 at 08:24:08PM -0400 Message-ID: <3F8339F0.29775.66E362D@localhost> On 7 Oct 2003 at 21:48, Brian Hechinger wrote: > pull the EGA thingie, and you might be able to cram enough "regular" > PDP-11 bits into it to get it bootstraping correctly and most > importantly trying to use a serial port for console. > Yesterday a co-conspira^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hworker of mine brought in an old Princeton EGA/VGA monitor. After hooking up the monitor and re-seating a couple of the cards the system seemed to boot ok, though I did notice that there appeared to be some 'striction' in the old ST-506 drive ( and yes, I do still have the "Fonzie" touch :-D ) I'm thinking that I am going to pull the custom cards as soon as I get enough stuff to get it to boot without them, since I REALLY want to run BSD211 on the thing. I'll need a bigger hard drive also (any one got a couple of RD-54s and controllers to donate?) > ooooohhhh, i would be VERY interested to know what that is and if > there were a way that we could play with it. :) > I would too, but I think that idea is very doubtful since I have absolutlely zero docs on the thing. From curt at atarimuseum.com Tue Oct 7 21:15:21 2003 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:21 2005 Subject: anyone notice this gorgeous piece? References: <000701c38d3f$fbde93f0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <006c01c38d42$06ff2bd0$1a02a8c0@starship1> Jay, Great piece, thanks! :-D Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jay West" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2003 10:00 PM Subject: anyone notice this gorgeous piece? > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3050481627&category=1479 > > CDC 97xx disc drive. Looks very clean. From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Oct 7 21:14:00 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:21 2005 Subject: anyone notice this gorgeous piece? In-Reply-To: <000701c38d3f$fbde93f0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> from "Jay West" at Oct 07, 2003 09:00:40 PM Message-ID: <200310080214.h982E1Q4000746@onyx.spiritone.com> > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3050481627&category=1479 > > CDC 97xx disc drive. Looks very clean. Jay, you're a sick puppy for that comment... Unfortunatly I seem to be as well, that's one gorgeous drive, it looks like it could have just come off a computer floor (yeah, I know they've had it in storage). Zane From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Oct 7 21:22:38 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:21 2005 Subject: PDP 11/73 SLU In-Reply-To: <3F8339F0.29775.66E362D@localhost> from "cmcnabb@4mcnabb.net" at Oct 07, 2003 10:10:56 PM Message-ID: <200310080222.h982McE6000873@onyx.spiritone.com> > I'm thinking that I am going to pull the custom cards as soon as I get enough stuff to > get it to boot without them, since I REALLY want to run BSD211 on the thing. I'll > need a bigger hard drive also (any one got a couple of RD-54s and controllers to > donate?) Do yourself a favor, don't mess with MFM disks if you can help it. The cheapest solution is to get a ESDI controller and dig up some ESDI drives, this should be far cheaper than getting even one RD54. In fact if you get lucky, a SCSI controller is likely to be cheaper. Either solution will generate less grey hair than trying to use an MFM drive. Zane From jrkeys at concentric.net Tue Oct 7 21:33:14 2003 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:21 2005 Subject: anyone notice this gorgeous piece? References: <000701c38d3f$fbde93f0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <027501c38d44$87582820$1a09dd40@oemcomputer> That was a nice one and I hope to get one someday. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jay West" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2003 9:00 PM Subject: anyone notice this gorgeous piece? > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3050481627&category=1479 > > CDC 97xx disc drive. Looks very clean. > From jwstephens at msm.umr.edu Tue Oct 7 22:02:19 2003 From: jwstephens at msm.umr.edu (jim) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:21 2005 Subject: {WAS} Re: anyone ... {is} 300mb head crashes, and Western Dynex acquired References: <000701c38d3f$fbde93f0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> <027501c38d44$87582820$1a09dd40@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <3F837E3B.680E462C@msm.umr.edu> I hate to be a poop, but I would imagine that if you loaded and tried to run this, you'ed end up with slag. I had several 300's and they are very sensitive to contamination. If you have a pack inspection and cleaning system or portable version, and the cleaning materials, you probably could get a pack up to shape not to crash all the heads. I would want a lot of heads available just in case of disaster too, as it was not if but when as to the problem of crashes. these are wonderful machines to have, but I am torn about how to use them given the fact that they are like fine wristwatches, which have to work perfectly at 1700 rpm or so, and do that indefinitely. I probably had some HEPA filters, but doubt they have survived my moves, sad to say. I am doing a massive move right now and will hold on to what I have and post the numbers if anyone is interested. I did find and purchase a western dynex 5 over 5 model 6000, which I just got posession of today from a DRMO auction. They are 4 heads instead of 10 or 20, and the media is much easier (and less of it) to clean. Hopefully it will be functional to run on a Microdata system I have in stock, looking for a drive to run on it. Thanks to whoever posted the recent note about a DRMO auction as I found this drive while surfing the auctions around that posting. Jim Keys wrote: > That was a nice one and I hope to get one someday. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jay West" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2003 9:00 PM > Subject: anyone notice this gorgeous piece? > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3050481627&category=1479 > > > > CDC 97xx disc drive. Looks very clean. > > From curt at atarimuseum.com Tue Oct 7 22:13:17 2003 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:21 2005 Subject: {WAS} Re: anyone ... {is} 300mb head crashes, and Western Dynex acquired References: <000701c38d3f$fbde93f0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP><027501c38d44$87582820$1a09dd40@oemcomputer> <3F837E3B.680E462C@msm.umr.edu> Message-ID: <008601c38d4a$1ea1c380$1a02a8c0@starship1> I've heard the very same thing and I've been picking up a lot of spare equipment, filters, tools, an alignment pak and I'm borrowing a meter that a former tech says will help to ensure proper alignment of the heads, so yeah I've heard this is a major undertaking with a LOT of before hand setup time, I've been searching for 5+ months for one of these and I'm willing to put in the needed time to get it up and running so I can access over a dozen disks I have with data on them. Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "jim" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2003 11:02 PM Subject: {WAS} Re: anyone ... {is} 300mb head crashes,and Western Dynex acquired > I hate to be a poop, but I would imagine that if you loaded and tried > to run this, you'ed end up with slag. > > I had several 300's and they are very sensitive to contamination. If > you have a pack inspection and cleaning system or portable version, > and the cleaning materials, you probably could get a pack up to shape > not to crash all the heads. > > I would want a lot of heads available just in case of disaster too, > as it was not if but when as to the problem of crashes. > > these are wonderful machines to have, but I am torn about how > to use them given the fact that they are like fine wristwatches, > which have to work perfectly at 1700 rpm or so, and do that > indefinitely. > > I probably had some HEPA filters, but doubt they have survived > my moves, sad to say. > > I am doing a massive move right now and will hold on to what I > have and post the numbers if anyone is interested. > > I did find and purchase a western dynex 5 over 5 model 6000, > which I just got posession of today from a DRMO auction. They > are 4 heads instead of 10 or 20, and the media is much easier (and > less of it) to clean. Hopefully it will be functional to run on a > Microdata system I have in stock, looking for a drive to run on it. > > Thanks to whoever posted the recent note about a DRMO auction > as I found this drive while surfing the auctions around that posting. > > Jim > > Keys wrote: > > > That was a nice one and I hope to get one someday. > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Jay West" > > To: > > Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2003 9:00 PM > > Subject: anyone notice this gorgeous piece? > > > > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3050481627&category=1479 > > > > > > CDC 97xx disc drive. Looks very clean. > > > > From tothwolf at concentric.net Tue Oct 7 23:28:03 2003 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:21 2005 Subject: DEC Pro 380 Info Request In-Reply-To: <3F82ED07.9020203@nktelco.net> References: <3F82ED07.9020203@nktelco.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 7 Oct 2003, Charles H. Dickman wrote: > After looking for pinouts, I have attached a NEC Multisync 3D monitor > and an LK201 keyboard to the VIDEO 1 port. During the self test I get an > error saying a key is stuck on the keyboard. This may indeed be true, I > have not tested the keyboard before. It also says hit to > continue. The keyboard has no key. I suspect there were various > markings for the keycaps. Any suggestion on which key might be ? > > What are the monochrome monitor specifications (horizontal frequency, > vertical frequency, etc)? It looks like the NEC 3D can barely get the > correct sync. This monitor is a bit old and when it warms up it loses > sync. Not sure if this is a problem with the monitor, or I am just > stretching its specs too much. A NEC XV17 I tried would not even begin > to sync. The NEC 3D was very poorly made compared to the earlier and most of the later 4D/5FG/etc monitors. I've yet to see one that still works properly. -Toth From jpero at sympatico.ca Tue Oct 7 19:17:27 2003 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:21 2005 Subject: DEC Pro 380 Info Request In-Reply-To: References: <3F82ED07.9020203@nktelco.net> Message-ID: <20031008041555.LWYG5089.tomts35-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> The NEC 3D was very poorly made compared to the earlier and most of the later 4D/5FG/etc monitors. I've yet to see one that still works properly. -Toth How do u know? I had a 3D, still ok after 8 yr when I first bought it years ago then later sold it still working. Only plm with it was small tube. Oh yeah, I also had 4FGe. Luckily picked it up for free. It snapped and popped LOUDLY once in while, threw it out bec it's is really uncertain when it whatever decides to die in big way. I know 5D is still working at friend's home but it's HUGE and heavy as an tank. Cheers, Wizard From vcf at siconic.com Tue Oct 7 23:26:22 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:21 2005 Subject: anyone notice this gorgeous piece? In-Reply-To: <027501c38d44$87582820$1a09dd40@oemcomputer> Message-ID: On Tue, 7 Oct 2003, Keys wrote: > That was a nice one and I hope to get one someday. Why? Unless you're going to actually do something with it, it only serves as a big heavy mostly-metallic object that takes up space and gets in your way. I have one, so I know first hand :) (I used to have two but one met an unfortunate end by being dumped into a metal recycling bin by some dumb-asses not paying attention. Fortunately it was in very crappy condition and I wasn't too torn up about seeing it go, especially since it was moving time and that meant one less big heavy thing to move ;) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From teoz at neo.rr.com Tue Oct 7 23:36:27 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:21 2005 Subject: DEC Pro 380 Info Request References: <3F82ED07.9020203@nktelco.net> Message-ID: <004601c38d55$bcf4c400$3d7ca418@neo.rr.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tothwolf" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2003 12:28 AM Subject: Re: DEC Pro 380 Info Request > > The NEC 3D was very poorly made compared to the earlier and most of the > later 4D/5FG/etc monitors. I've yet to see one that still works properly. > > -Toth I have a nec 3Ds (later version of 3d?) that syncs correctly on my amiga 1200 (15khz) , maybe I am lucky TZ From jrkeys at concentric.net Wed Oct 8 00:03:54 2003 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:21 2005 Subject: anyone notice this gorgeous piece? References: Message-ID: <02ca01c38d59$93a6be10$1a09dd40@oemcomputer> If I get my wish, than someday soon I will have a couple of mainframes to put on display and I would like to have the various peripherals to go with them. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vintage Computer Festival" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2003 11:26 PM Subject: Re: anyone notice this gorgeous piece? > On Tue, 7 Oct 2003, Keys wrote: > > > That was a nice one and I hope to get one someday. > > Why? Unless you're going to actually do something with it, it only serves > as a big heavy mostly-metallic object that takes up space and gets in your > way. > > I have one, so I know first hand :) > > (I used to have two but one met an unfortunate end by being dumped into a > metal recycling bin by some dumb-asses not paying attention. Fortunately > it was in very crappy condition and I wasn't too torn up about seeing it > go, especially since it was moving time and that meant one less big heavy > thing to move ;) > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage mputers ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > > From classiccmp at crash.com Wed Oct 8 00:44:52 2003 From: classiccmp at crash.com (Steven M Jones) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:21 2005 Subject: anyone notice this gorgeous piece? Message-ID: <200310080544.h985iqe20128@abort.crash.com> Jay West wrote: . > That was a nice one and I hope to get one someday. Sorry, meant to post a "seen this" note, but life got in the way. That was a relisted at least once, I saw it the other week and it ended with no bids. What I need is something like the Google search API but for eBay, so I can wrote a nice little 'bot that will keep an eye out for things... --S. From Edward.Tillman at valero.com Wed Oct 8 01:06:13 2003 From: Edward.Tillman at valero.com (Tillman, Edward) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:21 2005 Subject: anyone notice this gorgeous piece? Message-ID: Ok... What did he write? Ed Tillman Store Automation Tech Support Specialist Valero Energy Corporation San Antonio, Texas, USA Office: (210)592-3110, Fax (210)592-2048 Email: edward.tillman@valero.com -----Original Message----- From: Steven M Jones [mailto:classiccmp@crash.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2003 12:45 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: anyone notice this gorgeous piece? Jay West wrote: From classiccmp at crash.com Wed Oct 8 01:14:14 2003 From: classiccmp at crash.com (Steven M Jones) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:21 2005 Subject: PDT-11/150 Message-ID: <200310080614.h986EEe20242@abort.crash.com> Bill Machacek wrote: . > I just rescued a Digital PDT 11/150 ... what have I got? A nice little RT-11 system. It may seem heavy, but the alternative is usually in a BA23 deskside/rack box, and that's heavier. It is almost completely non-expandable as Tony pointed out; it was theoretically available with only a single RX01 floppy drive, and three serial ports, but all the units I've seen (mine or pictures on the 'Net) have both drives and six ports. There's probably *something* other than RT-11 that'll run on it, but I haven't gotten around to finding it yet. There probably isn't enough room on an RX01 for anything like Xinu or a Unix v6 mini-root, let alone enough hardware, but things that could be run on a pdp-11/03 stand a chance. Should be some fun things in the DECUS library. --S. From tothwolf at concentric.net Wed Oct 8 02:00:28 2003 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:21 2005 Subject: DEC Pro 380 Info Request In-Reply-To: <004601c38d55$bcf4c400$3d7ca418@neo.rr.com> References: <3F82ED07.9020203@nktelco.net> <004601c38d55$bcf4c400$3d7ca418@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 8 Oct 2003, TeoZ wrote: > From: "Tothwolf" > > > The NEC 3D was very poorly made compared to the earlier and most of > > the later 4D/5FG/etc monitors. I've yet to see one that still works > > properly. > > I have a nec 3Ds (later version of 3d?) that syncs correctly on my amiga > 1200 (15khz) , maybe I am lucky Very...It must not have very many hours on it. -Toth From tothwolf at concentric.net Wed Oct 8 02:08:36 2003 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:21 2005 Subject: DEC Pro 380 Info Request In-Reply-To: <20031008041555.LWYG5089.tomts35-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> References: <3F82ED07.9020203@nktelco.net> <20031008041555.LWYG5089.tomts35-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: On Wed, 8 Oct 2003 jpero@sympatico.ca wrote: > Tothwolf wrote: > > > The NEC 3D was very poorly made compared to the earlier and most of > > the later 4D/5FG/etc monitors. I've yet to see one that still works > > properly. > > How do u know? I had a 3D, still ok after 8 yr when I first bought it > years ago then later sold it still working. Only plm with it was small > tube. Because I've worked with literally 100s of NEC monitors over the years. Out of all the 3D monitors I've worked with, every single one that had more than a few years of power on time had serious problems. Often they would pop and hiss, some had problems with the tube's phosphor, and some had major deflection problems. I've not seen near the problems with earlier or later NEC monitors. > Oh yeah, I also had 4FGe. Luckily picked it up for free. It snapped > and popped LOUDLY once in while, threw it out bec it's is really > uncertain when it whatever decides to die in big way. Might have been a bad solder joint. Some of the 3D monitors certainly had that type of problem. > I know 5D is still working at friend's home but it's HUGE and heavy as > an tank. I'm viewing this on a 5FG right now, with another 5FGe right next to it. I've only recently (and temporarily) retired my 2A, as it needs some caps replaced. -Toth From eric at brouhaha.com Wed Oct 8 02:52:47 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:21 2005 Subject: DEC Pro 380 Info Request In-Reply-To: <20031008041555.LWYG5089.tomts35-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> References: <3F82ED07.9020203@nktelco.net> <20031008041555.LWYG5089.tomts35-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: <40182.64.169.63.74.1065599567.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> "Tothwolf" wrote: > The NEC 3D was very poorly made compared to the earlier and most of the > later 4D/5FG/etc monitors. I've yet to see one that still works properly. That may be, but AFAIK it's the last of the NEC Multisync line that could actually sync to horizontal rates as low as 15.75 KHz, which is necessary if you want to use it with a DEC Pro 380. From allain at panix.com Wed Oct 8 08:37:20 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:21 2005 Subject: anyone notice this gorgeous piece? References: Message-ID: <002b01c38da1$4c845d60$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > {CDC 9766} Too bad it weighs about 450lb. I stop just short of owning one. I keep the nonremovable types, weighing between 90 and 140 lbs. What's the interface on these things anyway? Probably too early to be as easy as SMD, eh? John A. From nico at farumdata.dk Wed Oct 8 09:12:52 2003 From: nico at farumdata.dk (Nico de Jong) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:21 2005 Subject: anyone notice this gorgeous piece? References: <002b01c38da1$4c845d60$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <001201c38da6$43d7a780$2101a8c0@farumdata.dk> > > {CDC 9766} > > Too bad it weighs about 450lb. I remember this beast from a job I once had. The drives (2, 200 MB each IIRC) were connected to a Regnecentralen RC8000 (a danish system, used in the USA primarily by airlines for booking systems). It had to deal with the full workload of a company dealing with bathtubs, piping, and all other things to be used in bathrooms, etc. The second drive was used solely for data, such as invoices, personel, etc. ALL programs, system files, swap files or whatever was on the first drive, and as the system had only 256K, there was a "lively traffic" to and from the drive. It was also used as a development system for 3 programmers. The first invoice run to be executed on that system, took over 24 hours to complete ! In the mean time, the disk had moved about half a meter sideways. The only reason for not being in the other end of the machine room, was the length of the cables connected to the drive. Nico From uban at ubanproductions.com Wed Oct 8 09:24:45 2003 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:21 2005 Subject: anyone notice this gorgeous piece? In-Reply-To: <002b01c38da1$4c845d60$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> References: Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20031008092141.020376e0@mail.ubanproductions.com> At 09:37 AM 10/8/2003 -0400, you wrote: > > {CDC 9766} > >Too bad it weighs about 450lb. >I stop just short of owning one. >I keep the nonremovable types, weighing >between 90 and 140 lbs. > >What's the interface on these things anyway? >Probably too early to be as easy as SMD, eh? > >John A. I have a CDC9762, which is the smaller brother of this drive and weighs considerably less, but is still big and is still heavy. From the standpoint of showing off the old technology standpoint, these are great drives. Yes, you have to have the space and power, but a winchester (fixed) drive just isn't as impressive as a washing machine:-) These drives use a standard SMD interface. --tom From pat at purdueriots.com Wed Oct 8 09:52:01 2003 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:21 2005 Subject: DEC 11/23 FP option (FPF11/M8188) information request Message-ID: <200310080952.01072.pat@purdueriots.com> I've managed to pick up an FPF11/M8188 (PDP-11/23 Floating Point option) for my PDP-11/23, and I'm wondering if anyone here knows how to set up/ configure this thing. It's a standard-looking dual-height QBUS module, with a 2x20 pin header at the top of the card (with the QBUS fingers pointing downward. I've got a non-+ 11/23 CPU board that I'd like to get it to work with, currently stuck in a BA23 cabinet. Thanks for any help! -- Pat PLUG Vice President -- http://plug.purdue.org Slackware Linux -- http://slackware.com Purdue University Research Computing -- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs From toresbe at ifi.uio.no Wed Oct 8 10:03:25 2003 From: toresbe at ifi.uio.no (Tore S Bekkedal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:21 2005 Subject: Mac IIci Cache Card Message-ID: <1065624877.6020.3.camel@lisp> Yup, I've got one right in front of me. (well, actually slightly to the left, because my keyboard is right in front of me, and between the monitor and the keyboard I have a bunch of harddrives and a Mach 64 display card taken from an OEM Compaq) If you want it I'll be happy to give it up. The IIci chassis now rests in pieces, and the mainboard is wall decoration. (I have a mosaic of broken or useless mobos up over the wall at my summerhouse) Drop me a line if another one says bye-bye. Peace, -Tore From dittman at dittman.net Wed Oct 8 10:31:44 2003 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:21 2005 Subject: Heathkit ET-3400 Manul Message-ID: <20031008153144.F2D06801B@narnia.int.dittman.net> I have an ET-3400A and would like to find a manual, preferably and electronic copy that I could ftp or have mailed to me. Does anyone have an electronic copy? If not, does anyone have a paper copy? -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From allain at panix.com Wed Oct 8 10:59:33 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:21 2005 Subject: anyone notice this gorgeous piece? References: <5.2.0.9.0.20031008092141.020376e0@mail.ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <03bd01c38db5$2ac8b720$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > I have a CDC9762, which is the smaller brother... I've seen 9766'es and I'd like to check out the 9762 sometime too. I take care of the all-go/no-show problem of nonremovables by having one drive partially dismantled, for show and it's twin all set up for running. To me the inside of a Fujitsu M2351A Eagle is as impressive machinery as a Harley engine. John A. From patrick at evocative.com Wed Oct 8 11:29:57 2003 From: patrick at evocative.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:22 2005 Subject: Data General Eclipse Give-Away Message-ID: Someone just posted a Data General Eclipse on the Vintage Computer Marketplace, as a give-away. http://marketplace.vintage.org/view.cfm?ad=220 Evidently it has been sitting in a garage in Tucson for some time. Also, check out Sellam's auction for the Commodore 64 prototype (serial number 6)... Patrick From waltje at pdp11.nl Wed Oct 8 11:36:01 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:22 2005 Subject: anyone notice this gorgeous piece? In-Reply-To: <000701c38d3f$fbde93f0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: Jay writes: > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3050481627&category=1479 Damn. I assumed Jay was referencing an ad for someone's wife on ePay. What disappointment to only find a DCD drive on there. Jay... your wording is starting to scare me... go out more often :) Cheers, Fred -- Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist Visit the VAXlab Project at http://www.pdp11.nl/VAXlab/ Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Sunnyvale, CA, USA From curt at atarimuseum.com Wed Oct 8 11:37:49 2003 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:22 2005 Subject: anyone notice this gorgeous piece? References: <002b01c38da1$4c845d60$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <00b501c38dba$836195f0$1a02a8c0@starship1> John, Its SMD, I have an Emulex Qbus card for it. Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Allain" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2003 9:37 AM Subject: Re: anyone notice this gorgeous piece? > > {CDC 9766} > > Too bad it weighs about 450lb. > I stop just short of owning one. > I keep the nonremovable types, weighing > between 90 and 140 lbs. > > What's the interface on these things anyway? > Probably too early to be as easy as SMD, eh? > > John A. > From classiccmp at crash.com Wed Oct 8 11:41:39 2003 From: classiccmp at crash.com (Steven M Jones) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:22 2005 Subject: anyone notice this gorgeous piece? Message-ID: <200310081641.h98Gfde22364@abort.crash.com> John Allain wrote: . > I take care of the all-go/no-show problem of nonremovables > by having one drive partially dismantled, for show and it's > twin all set up for running. To me the inside of a Fujitsu > M2351A Eagle is as impressive machinery as a Harley engine. Now that would be impressive! Showing the engineering, machining, and general complexity of gear like this would I think be literally awesome. You might not get the kiddies to conceded that it could be cool to play games that aren't photorealistically rendered (let alone ASCII), but I think they'd be dumbstruck by seeing how enormously complicated real world objects can be. The real-world analogy would be the moving partial cutaways of motors seen at autoshows. I'm sure it's come up before, but I don't remember seeing anything like this at the Boston Computer Museum many, many years ago. Are there some exhibits like this in the CHM's new digs? --S. From patrick at evocative.com Wed Oct 8 12:09:26 2003 From: patrick at evocative.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:22 2005 Subject: Data General Eclipse Give-Away In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Also, check out Sellam's auction for the Commodore 64 prototype (serial > number 6)... Sorry... my bad... it's #19. --Patrick From uban at ubanproductions.com Wed Oct 8 12:10:35 2003 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:22 2005 Subject: anyone notice this gorgeous piece? In-Reply-To: <03bd01c38db5$2ac8b720$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> References: <5.2.0.9.0.20031008092141.020376e0@mail.ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20031008120505.02055630@mail.ubanproductions.com> I also have a Fujitsu M2284K drive which has the tinted plastic HDA cover, so that you can see the guts of the 14" drive assembly. http://www.ubanproductions.com/m2284k.html --tom At 11:59 AM 10/8/2003 -0400, you wrote: > > I have a CDC9762, which is the smaller brother... > >I've seen 9766'es and I'd like to check out the 9762 >sometime too. > >I take care of the all-go/no-show problem of nonremovables >by having one drive partially dismantled, for show and it's >twin all set up for running. To me the inside of a Fujitsu >M2351A Eagle is as impressive machinery as a Harley engine. > >John A. From vcf at siconic.com Wed Oct 8 12:24:03 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:22 2005 Subject: Data General Eclipse Give-Away In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 8 Oct 2003, Patrick Rigney wrote: > Someone just posted a Data General Eclipse on the Vintage Computer > Marketplace, as a give-away. > > http://marketplace.vintage.org/view.cfm?ad=220 It's apparently an S/20. More info is in the auction ad. If I had the time I'd get it myself. > Also, check out Sellam's auction for the Commodore 64 prototype (serial > number 6)... 19 (not 6 :) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From Joel.E.Bradley at syntegra.com Wed Oct 8 12:35:02 2003 From: Joel.E.Bradley at syntegra.com (Joel.E.Bradley@syntegra.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:22 2005 Subject: cctalk Digest, Vol 2, Issue 13 Message-ID: <41C19CA3B7CBD411B59200508B6CBBFF046AC05C@ah-exchange-01.arh.cdc.com> Is there actually a demand for these kinds of things anyway? I happen to work at the company known as the former CDC and we have a lot of this stuff around...in fact, we still support a lot of it. The Cyber 675 is still in use! Would this stuff be worthwhile trying to rescue from the 'scrap heap'? I also have lots of CDC branded merchandise... Joel Message: 9 Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 18:36:01 +0200 (CEST) From: "Fred N. van Kempen" Subject: Re: anyone notice this gorgeous piece? To: Jay West Cc: cctalk@classiccmp.org Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Jay writes: > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3050481627&category=1479 Damn. I assumed Jay was referencing an ad for someone's wife on ePay. What disappointment to only find a DCD drive on there. Jay... your wording is starting to scare me... go out more often :) Cheers, Fred -- Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist Visit the VAXlab Project at http://www.pdp11.nl/VAXlab/ Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Sunnyvale, CA, USA From emu at ecubics.com Wed Oct 8 13:04:38 2003 From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:22 2005 Subject: DEC 11/23 FP option (FPF11/M8188) information request In-Reply-To: <200310080952.01072.pat@purdueriots.com> References: <200310080952.01072.pat@purdueriots.com> Message-ID: <3F8451B6.1000303@ecubics.com> Patrick Finnegan wrote: > I've managed to pick up an FPF11/M8188 (PDP-11/23 Floating Point option) > for my PDP-11/23, and I'm wondering if anyone here knows how to set up/ > configure this thing. It's a standard-looking dual-height QBUS module, > with a 2x20 pin header at the top of the card (with the QBUS fingers > pointing downward. I've got a non-+ 11/23 CPU board that I'd like to get > it to work with, currently stuck in a BA23 cabinet. I hope I understand you here, but if you're trying to use it on a non 11/23 system you out of luck (OK, you can use it on a 11/24 too ...) If you look carefully at this board, you see that the qbus finger are only for the power supply of this board, there are no signals on it. Everything else this board needs is coming from the 11/23 or 11/24 FPU socket on the CPU module ... cheers From pat at purdueriots.com Wed Oct 8 12:55:01 2003 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:22 2005 Subject: WTD: SMD QBUS, VAXstation multi-CPU fun (was Re: anyone notice this gorgeous piece?) In-Reply-To: <00b501c38dba$836195f0$1a02a8c0@starship1> References: <002b01c38da1$4c845d60$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <00b501c38dba$836195f0$1a02a8c0@starship1> Message-ID: <200310081255.01456.pat@purdueriots.com> Curt vendel had uttereth on Wednesday 08 October 2003 11:37 am: > John, > > Its SMD, I have an Emulex Qbus card for it. Hey, I think I'm looking for an SMD QBUS card for use in one of my VAX/ PDP-11 systems. I've got a CDC 9448 drive that I'd love to get hooked up to *something*. I've got some cash to offer, or other DEC/IBM/Sun parts/ machines available for trade. Next on the list. I've just recently got a VAXstation 3520 from someone else at Purdue. I've taken it apart, looked at the maintenance manuals, and boards, and made some guesses. Even though it claims to only support two cpu boards (4 CVAX CPUs), it looks very likely that the hardware at least will work with up to (at most) 5 boards/10 CPUs. I'm working on trying to find more CPU boards to test this idea out at the moment, and am interested in borrowing or buying more CPU boards or VAXstation 3520/2540s. If you don't want to sell the thing, I'd be interested in just borrowing the CPU module for a week or two to test out software/ firmware support. Again, I've got things I can trade for this if desired. Also, if anyone has any memory boards they'd like to sell/trade, that'd be nice. I'm not sure 16MB will be enough for a Multiprocessor VAX. : ) As far as trades go, ask me if I have what you want, I've got a bunch of stuff that is taking up too much space right now... Mostly IBM/DEC/Sun (Sparc 32) things. -- Pat PLUG Vice President -- http://plug.purdue.org Slackware Linux -- http://slackware.com Purdue University Research Computing -- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs From pat at purdueriots.com Wed Oct 8 13:24:43 2003 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:22 2005 Subject: DEC 11/23 FP option (FPF11/M8188) information request In-Reply-To: <3F8451B6.1000303@ecubics.com> References: <200310080952.01072.pat@purdueriots.com> <3F8451B6.1000303@ecubics.com> Message-ID: <200310081324.43536.pat@purdueriots.com> emanuel stiebler had uttereth on Wednesday 08 October 2003 01:04 pm: > Patrick Finnegan wrote: > > I've managed to pick up an FPF11/M8188 (PDP-11/23 Floating Point > > option) for my PDP-11/23, and I'm wondering if anyone here knows how > > to set up/ configure this thing. It's a standard-looking dual-height > > QBUS module, with a 2x20 pin header at the top of the card (with the > > QBUS fingers pointing downward. I've got a non-+ 11/23 CPU board > > that I'd like to get it to work with, currently stuck in a BA23 > > cabinet. > > I hope I understand you here, but if you're trying to use it on a non > 11/23 system you out of luck (OK, you can use it on a 11/24 too ...) > If you look carefully at this board, you see that the qbus finger are > only for the power supply of this board, there are no signals on it. > Everything else this board needs is coming from the 11/23 or 11/24 FPU > socket on the CPU module ... No, I was trying to indicate that the CPU was an 11/23 not an 11/23+. So, do I need some magic cable to go from a DIP socket on the CPU board to this card? If so, does anyone have a pinout for it? Thanks! Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ From finnegpt at purdue.edu Wed Oct 8 13:25:46 2003 From: finnegpt at purdue.edu (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:22 2005 Subject: cctalk Digest, Vol 2, Issue 13 In-Reply-To: <41C19CA3B7CBD411B59200508B6CBBFF046AC05C@ah-exchange-01.arh.cdc.com> References: <41C19CA3B7CBD411B59200508B6CBBFF046AC05C@ah-exchange-01.arh.cdc.com> Message-ID: <200310081325.46776.finnegpt@purdue.edu> Joel.E.Bradley@syntegra.com had uttereth on Wednesday 08 October 2003 12:35 pm: > Is there actually a demand for these kinds of things anyway? I happen > to work at the company known as the former CDC and we have a lot of > this stuff around...in fact, we still support a lot of it. The Cyber > 675 is still in use! > > Would this stuff be worthwhile trying to rescue from the 'scrap heap'? > I also have lots of CDC branded merchandise... Definately! Where are you located, and what kinds of things do you have available (or soon-to-be available)? > Joel > > > Message: 9 > Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 18:36:01 +0200 (CEST) > From: "Fred N. van Kempen" > Subject: Re: anyone notice this gorgeous piece? > To: Jay West > Cc: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Message-ID: > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > > Jay writes: > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3050481627&categor > >y=1479 > > Damn. I assumed Jay was referencing an ad for someone's wife > on ePay. What disappointment to only find a DCD drive on there. > > Jay... your wording is starting to scare me... go out more often :) > > Cheers, > Fred -- -- Pat PLUG Vice President -- http://plug.purdue.org Slackware Linux -- http://slackware.com Purdue University Research Computing -- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs From classiccmp at crash.com Wed Oct 8 13:36:43 2003 From: classiccmp at crash.com (Steven M Jones) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:22 2005 Subject: Multi-CPU Qbus VAXen Message-ID: <200310081836.h98Iahe23050@abort.crash.com> Patrick Finnegan wrote: . > I've just recently got a VAXstation 3520 Something I'd love to see up close someday... > [ More about installing additional CPU boards ] That would be interesting - looking forward to comments from Antonio and others about whether this is really possible... On a related note, I there's a MicroNote about running multiple MicroVAX II CPUs (KA630, M7606) in a single backplane. Up to 4 in fact (MicroNote #26, on www.ibiblio.org). Has anyone on the list ever worked with, built, or seen such a beast? Did any interesting OS research projects of the time use this feature (I'm thinking V or Mach)? --S. From dwoyciesjes at comcast.net Wed Oct 8 13:53:24 2003 From: dwoyciesjes at comcast.net (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:22 2005 Subject: Mac IIci Cache Card References: <1065624877.6020.3.camel@lisp> Message-ID: <3F845D24.A55DEA0@comcast.net> Tore S Bekkedal wrote: > > Yup, I've got one right in front of me. (well, actually slightly to the > left, because my keyboard is right in front of me, and between the > monitor and the keyboard I have a bunch of harddrives and a Mach 64 > display card taken from an OEM Compaq) > > If you want it I'll be happy to give it up. The IIci chassis now rests > in pieces, and the mainboard is wall decoration. (I have a mosaic of > broken or useless mobos up over the wall at my summerhouse) > > Drop me a line if another one says bye-bye. > > Peace, > -Tore This reminds me... I have a working Mac IIci, free if you come and get it in New Haven CT. I have some other older Macs too. Like a Macintosh II, with Radius full page display... -- --- Dave Woyciesjes --- ICQ# 905818 From emu at ecubics.com Wed Oct 8 14:24:33 2003 From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:22 2005 Subject: DEC 11/23 FP option (FPF11/M8188) information request In-Reply-To: <200310081324.43536.pat@purdueriots.com> References: <200310080952.01072.pat@purdueriots.com> <3F8451B6.1000303@ecubics.com> <200310081324.43536.pat@purdueriots.com> Message-ID: <3F846471.9040708@ecubics.com> Patrick Finnegan wrote: > No, I was trying to indicate that the CPU was an 11/23 not an 11/23+. So, > do I need some magic cable to go from a DIP socket on the CPU board to > this card? If so, does anyone have a pinout for it? AFAIRC, it's just a flat ribbon cable. So it should be 1:1. cheers From emu at ecubics.com Wed Oct 8 14:43:25 2003 From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:22 2005 Subject: Multi-CPU Qbus VAXen In-Reply-To: <200310081836.h98Iahe23050@abort.crash.com> References: <200310081836.h98Iahe23050@abort.crash.com> Message-ID: <3F8468DD.20302@ecubics.com> Steven M Jones wrote: > On a related note, I there's a MicroNote about running multiple > MicroVAX II CPUs (KA630, M7606) in a single backplane. Up to 4 > in fact (MicroNote #26, on www.ibiblio.org). Has anyone on the > list ever worked with, built, or seen such a beast? Did any > interesting OS research projects of the time use this feature > (I'm thinking V or Mach)? Check the note again. AFAIRC, this (ka630, ka650, ...) had just a "mailbox" register to communicate, and only one cpu had access to the qbus. The other ones had the qbus interface shut down. So, if you didn't have you special backplane with 4 qbuses, it was pretty limited ... cheers From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed Oct 8 15:22:46 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:22 2005 Subject: DEC 11/23 FP option (FPF11/M8188) information request In-Reply-To: Patrick Finnegan "DEC 11/23 FP option (FPF11/M8188) information request" (Oct 8, 9:52) References: <200310080952.01072.pat@purdueriots.com> Message-ID: <10310082122.ZM22447@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Oct 8, 9:52, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > I've managed to pick up an FPF11/M8188 (PDP-11/23 Floating Point option) > for my PDP-11/23, and I'm wondering if anyone here knows how to set up/ > configure this thing. It's a standard-looking dual-height QBUS module, > with a 2x20 pin header at the top of the card (with the QBUS fingers > pointing downward. I've got a non-+ 11/23 CPU board that I'd like to get > it to work with, currently stuck in a BA23 cabinet. You mean a dual-height KDF11-A ? I'm not sure if it'll work with that; it's designed to work with a quad-height KDF11-B or an 11/24. The same FPF11 works in 11/23 Qbus and 11/24 Unibus systems, and MINC systems. You ought to have a 40-way ribbon cable with a 40-way (2x20) female header on one end and a 40-pin DIL header (to fit into a normal 40-pin DIL IC socket) on the other. If it didn't come with that, you only have half the system and you should claim a 50% rebate from whoever sold it to you. Failing that, it's in a dangerously incomplete state, and you should probably send it to me for safe disposal... QBus fitting: The 40-pin DIL header goes into slot 2 on the KDF11-B -- that's the 40-pin socket next to the CPU chip, nearest the centre of the board -- with the red stripe (which marks pin 1) on the side of the cable furthest from the edge connector fingers, and the cable exiting from the plug/socket towards the centre of the PCB. Fold the cable back over the DIL plug and the CPU chip, then fold at right angles so the cable comes off towards the back of the KDF11-B board with the red stripe on the left (as you look into the backplane from the back of the machine with Slot 1 at the top). The 40-pin female header fits onto J1 of the FPF11 with the red stripe on the left, and the FPF11 fits into Slot 2 of the backplane. Ditto for a MINC. Unibus fitting: The 40-pin DIL header goes into slot 7 (may also be marked E4) on the KDF11-B -- that's the 40-pin socket nearest the Row A side of the board -- with the red stripe (which marks pin 1) on the side of the cable nearest the Row F fingers, and the cable exiting from the plug/socket towards the edge connector fingers. Fold the cable back over itself and pass it over the back of the CPU card. Then give it a half-twist so the red stripe is now nearest Row A, fit it to J1 on the FPF11 and fit the FPF11 in Rows A...D of the first slot *after* the memory cards. The order of cards on the bus should be: ------------- 11/24 CPU ----------- ------ Unibus Map (or memory) ----- --------------- memory ------------ --------------- memory ------------ --------------- memory ------------ --------------- memory ------------ ---------- FPF11 ------ (empty) terminator or jumper Jumpers: There are 12 jumpers labelled W1...W12. W6 and W9 are always fitted. W1,W2 are near the edge fingers for Row A. W3 is near the fingers for Row B. W4,W5 are near the fingers for Row C. W6 is near the back of the board between Rows C and D. W7,W8,W11,W12 are near the fingers for Row D. W9,W10 are near the back of the board opposite Row D. Jumper: W1 W2 W3 W4 W5 W6 W7 W8 W9 W10 W11 W12 Unibus: R R I R R I I I I R I I QBus: I I R I I I R R I I R R (I = inserted R = removed) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Oct 8 15:38:57 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:22 2005 Subject: DEC 11/23 FP option (FPF11/M8188) information request In-Reply-To: <200310080952.01072.pat@purdueriots.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031008163857.007ba3d0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> pat, I have the DEC Microcomputer Processor handbook (1979/1980) and it has a complete chapter on the 11/23 CPU. There's a section in that that describes the Floating Point Option and another sewction that describes the configuration setting. But there's nothing in either section that indicates that any jumpers have to be set for the FP option. There's also a chapter on Floating Point operation but it only describes the operands and such. There's no indication in this book that you need to do anything after installing the FP option. Joe At 09:52 AM 10/8/03 -0500, you wrote: >I've managed to pick up an FPF11/M8188 (PDP-11/23 Floating Point option) >for my PDP-11/23, and I'm wondering if anyone here knows how to set up/ >configure this thing. It's a standard-looking dual-height QBUS module, >with a 2x20 pin header at the top of the card (with the QBUS fingers >pointing downward. I've got a non-+ 11/23 CPU board that I'd like to get >it to work with, currently stuck in a BA23 cabinet. > >Thanks for any help! > >-- Pat > >PLUG Vice President -- http://plug.purdue.org >Slackware Linux -- http://slackware.com >Purdue University Research Computing -- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Oct 8 15:50:17 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:22 2005 Subject: DEC 11/23 FP option (FPF11/M8188) information request In-Reply-To: <200310081324.43536.pat@purdueriots.com> References: <3F8451B6.1000303@ecubics.com> <200310080952.01072.pat@purdueriots.com> <3F8451B6.1000303@ecubics.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031008165017.007bab70@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 01:24 PM 10/8/03 -0500, you wrote: >emanuel stiebler had uttereth on Wednesday 08 October 2003 01:04 pm: >> Patrick Finnegan wrote: >> > I've managed to pick up an FPF11/M8188 (PDP-11/23 Floating Point >> > option) for my PDP-11/23, and I'm wondering if anyone here knows how >> > to set up/ configure this thing. It's a standard-looking dual-height >> > QBUS module, with a 2x20 pin header at the top of the card (with the >> > QBUS fingers pointing downward. I've got a non-+ 11/23 CPU board >> > that I'd like to get it to work with, currently stuck in a BA23 >> > cabinet. >> >> I hope I understand you here, but if you're trying to use it on a non >> 11/23 system you out of luck (OK, you can use it on a 11/24 too ...) >> If you look carefully at this board, you see that the qbus finger are >> only for the power supply of this board, there are no signals on it. >> Everything else this board needs is coming from the 11/23 or 11/24 FPU >> socket on the CPU module ... > >No, I was trying to indicate that the CPU was an 11/23 not an 11/23+. So, >do I need some magic cable to go from a DIP socket on the CPU board to >this card? If so, does anyone have a pinout for it? If you're referring to the large socket between the MMU and FP IC, then it's a spare according to my DEC handbook. Joe > >Thanks! > >Pat >-- >Purdue University ITAP/RCS >Information Technology at Purdue >Research Computing and Storage >http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Oct 8 15:24:02 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:22 2005 Subject: Acorn Econet In-Reply-To: <10310072109.ZM21159@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> from "Pete Turnbull" at Oct 7, 3 09:09:44 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3323 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20031008/9cf06335/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Oct 8 15:33:10 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:22 2005 Subject: LK201 key stuck In-Reply-To: <3F834D49.9010503@nktelco.net> from "Charles H. Dickman" at Oct 7, 3 07:33:29 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2730 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20031008/12491821/attachment.ksh From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed Oct 8 15:57:26 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:22 2005 Subject: anyone notice this gorgeous piece? In-Reply-To: Tom Uban "Re: anyone notice this gorgeous piece?" (Oct 8, 12:10) References: <5.2.0.9.0.20031008092141.020376e0@mail.ubanproductions.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20031008120505.02055630@mail.ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <10310082157.ZM22516@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Oct 8, 12:10, Tom Uban wrote: > I also have a Fujitsu M2284K drive which has the tinted > plastic HDA cover, so that you can see the guts of the > 14" drive assembly. > > http://www.ubanproductions.com/m2284k.html Yes, they're nice. I've got one too. I've also got a full-height 5_1/4" winchester with a clear perspex top. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From eric at brouhaha.com Wed Oct 8 16:12:15 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:22 2005 Subject: DEC 11/23 FP option (FPF11/M8188) information request In-Reply-To: <3F8451B6.1000303@ecubics.com> References: <200310080952.01072.pat@purdueriots.com> <3F8451B6.1000303@ecubics.com> Message-ID: <1734.4.20.168.195.1065647535.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Patrick Finnegan wrote: > I've managed to pick up an FPF11/M8188 (PDP-11/23 Floating Point option) > for my PDP-11/23, [...] I've got a non-+ 11/23 CPU board that I'd like > to get it to work with, "emanuel stiebler" wrote: > I hope I understand you here, but if you're trying to use it on a non > 11/23 system you out of luck (OK, you can use it on a 11/24 too ...) I think Patrick meant that he wants to use it on an 11/23 that is not an 11/23+. The former uses the KDF11-A dual-height CPU (M8186), and the latter uses the KDF11-B quad-height CPU (M8189). I think the FPF11 should work with either, but I'm not 100% certain. You need a cable from the 40-pin header on the FPF11 to one of the MICROM sockets on the KDF11. I'm not sure whether it makes any difference which MICROM socket is used. For example, the KUV11 WCS option (M8018) for the LSI-11 (11/03, KD11-F, M7264) needs a particular MICROM socket with an extra signal, and so it won't work on the double-height LSI-11/2 CPU (KD11-HA, M7270) which does not have that signal wired to a MICROM socket. I don't know whether the FPF11 has similar considerations. From eric at brouhaha.com Wed Oct 8 16:14:35 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:22 2005 Subject: Multi-CPU Qbus VAXen In-Reply-To: <200310081836.h98Iahe23050@abort.crash.com> References: <200310081836.h98Iahe23050@abort.crash.com> Message-ID: <1740.4.20.168.195.1065647675.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> "Steven M Jones" wrote: > On a related note, I there's a MicroNote about running multiple > MicroVAX II CPUs (KA630, M7606) in a single backplane. Up to 4 > in fact (MicroNote #26, on www.ibiblio.org). Has anyone on the > list ever worked with, built, or seen such a beast? Did any > interesting OS research projects of the time use this feature > (I'm thinking V or Mach)? The resulting system does not have shared memory (except for any Qbus memory), so it isn't generally suitable for operating systems that support SMP. That's one reason why DEC never officially supported such configurations. From lcourtney at mvista.com Wed Oct 8 16:21:45 2003 From: lcourtney at mvista.com (Lee Courtney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:22 2005 Subject: anyone notice this gorgeous piece? In-Reply-To: <200310081641.h98Gfde22364@abort.crash.com> Message-ID: <004001c38de2$2d898b60$800101df@lcourtney22k> > Museum many, many years ago. Are there some exhibits like this > in the CHM's new digs? Yes. Visible storage has an exhibit displaying various capacity hard drive assemblies. I know there are 2 early 1980s IBM HDAs with internals visible, and at least one early 1970's DEC HDA. See the new Online Visible Storage section off the Museum's main page (www.computerhistory.org) for artifacts of this type currently on display. Lee Courtney > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Steven M Jones > Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2003 9:42 AM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Cc: spector@zeitgeist.com > Subject: Re: anyone notice this gorgeous piece? > > > John Allain wrote: > . > > I take care of the all-go/no-show problem of nonremovables > > by having one drive partially dismantled, for show and it's > > twin all set up for running. To me the inside of a Fujitsu > > M2351A Eagle is as impressive machinery as a Harley engine. > > Now that would be impressive! Showing the engineering, machining, > and general complexity of gear like this would I think be > literally awesome. You might not get the kiddies to conceded that > it could be cool to play games that aren't photorealistically > rendered (let alone ASCII), but I think they'd be dumbstruck by > seeing how enormously complicated real world objects can be. > > The real-world analogy would be the moving partial cutaways of > motors seen at autoshows. I'm sure it's come up before, but I > don't remember seeing anything like this at the Boston Computer > Museum many, many years ago. Are there some exhibits like this > in the CHM's new digs? > > --S. > > From classiccmp at crash.com Wed Oct 8 16:38:48 2003 From: classiccmp at crash.com (Steven M Jones) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:22 2005 Subject: Multi-CPU Qbus VAXen Message-ID: <200310082138.h98Lcme23698@abort.crash.com> emanuel stiebler wrote: . > Check the note again. AFAIRC, this (ka630, ka650, ...) had just a > "mailbox" register to communicate, and only one cpu had access to the > qbus. The other ones had the qbus interface shut down. So, if you didn't > have you special backplane with 4 qbuses, it was pretty limited ... While the note doesn't describe how, it does indicate you have to reconfigure the auxiliary processors. Things like disabling the TOY clock, the bus arbiter logic, setting the address of the Interprocessor Communications Register (ICR, the "mailbox" you referred to). You can however do this in regular backplanes. Okay okay, you may want to make sure you use a BA11-S since it's Q22 and all Q/CD slots. The common BA23/123 backplanes would be pretty short on Q/CD slots for more than two processors unless you don't need memory for them... And then the bus termination would get pretty funky, too. Eric Smith wrote: . > The resulting system does not have shared memory (except for any > Qbus memory), so it isn't generally suitable for operating systems > that support SMP. That's one reason why DEC never officially > supported such configurations. This is one reason I thought of V, a message passing OS (unless my memory is faulty). My papers are all in a box somewhere, but it dated from the early to mid 80's at Stanford, and I'm pretty sure it ran on MicroVAXen. While there are plenty of applications where UMA is handy, necessary, or essential, there are cases where it isn't. I'm sure somebody used the feature, or it never would have been put in silicon. When I thought about the 3520/3540 I wondered if they used these features with redesigned CPU boards to provide a different memory interconnect but take advantage of the ICR etc. --S. From allain at panix.com Wed Oct 8 16:53:10 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:22 2005 Subject: cctalk Digest, Vol 2, Issue 13 References: <41C19CA3B7CBD411B59200508B6CBBFF046AC05C@ah-exchange-01.arh.cdc.com> Message-ID: <005501c38de6$9133ee40$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > I happen to work at the company known as the former CDC... > Would this stuff be worthwhile trying to rescue from the 'scrap heap'? Yeahaugh I'd say that any complete functioning component that weighs less than 140 pounds or can be disnmantled in under an hour into carryable components is worth mentioning here. John A. 140 pounds is the heaviest thing I've carried (metal). It's not clear if a maleable thing would be easier to carry, with its movable center of gravity. I need a test subject, preferrably female. From mtapley at swri.edu Wed Oct 8 18:00:25 2003 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:22 2005 Subject: cctalk Digest, Vol 2, Issue 13 In-Reply-To: <005501c38de6$9133ee40$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> References: <41C19CA3B7CBD411B59200508B6CBBFF046AC05C@ah-exchange-01.arh.cdc.com> <005501c38de6$9133ee40$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: >John A. >140 pounds is the heaviest thing I've carried (metal). >It's not clear if a maleable thing would be easier ^^^^^ I daren't ask whether you meant "malleable". ;-) >to carry, with its movable center of gravity. >I need a test subject, preferrably female. -- - Mark 210-522-6025, page 888-733-0967 From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Oct 8 15:43:27 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:22 2005 Subject: DEC 11/23 FP option (FPF11/M8188) information request In-Reply-To: <200310081324.43536.pat@purdueriots.com> from "Patrick Finnegan" at Oct 8, 3 01:24:43 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1105 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20031008/8fcd1ada/attachment.ksh From vcf at siconic.com Wed Oct 8 22:28:18 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:22 2005 Subject: cctalk Digest, Vol 2, Issue 13 In-Reply-To: <005501c38de6$9133ee40$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: On Wed, 8 Oct 2003, John Allain wrote: > 140 pounds is the heaviest thing I've carried (metal). > It's not clear if a maleable thing would be easier > to carry, with its movable center of gravity. > I need a test subject, preferrably female. It's really easy when you're carrying her to the bedroom. OH MY GAWD! WHAT AM I SAYING? :) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Wed Oct 8 23:36:42 2003 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:22 2005 Subject: cctalk Digest, Vol 2, Issue 13 References: Message-ID: <3F84E5DA.50209@jetnet.ab.ca> Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Wed, 8 Oct 2003, John Allain wrote: > > >>140 pounds is the heaviest thing I've carried (metal). >>It's not clear if a maleable thing would be easier >>to carry, with its movable center of gravity. >>I need a test subject, preferrably female. > > > It's really easy when you're carrying her to the bedroom. > > OH MY GAWD! WHAT AM I SAYING? > > :) > Ok , you leave her there. I'll carry her to the bedroom. :) From tothwolf at concentric.net Thu Oct 9 00:16:08 2003 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:22 2005 Subject: cctalk Digest, Vol 2, Issue 13 In-Reply-To: <3F84E5DA.50209@jetnet.ab.ca> References: <3F84E5DA.50209@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, 8 Oct 2003, ben franchuk wrote: > Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > On Wed, 8 Oct 2003, John Allain wrote: > > > > > 140 pounds is the heaviest thing I've carried (metal). It's not > > > clear if a maleable thing would be easier to carry, with its > > > movable center of gravity. I need a test subject, preferrably > > > female. > > > > It's really easy when you're carrying her to the bedroom. > > > > OH MY GAWD! WHAT AM I SAYING? > > Ok , you leave her there. I'll carry her to the bedroom. :) Bedroom? Wheres your sense of adventure? ;) -Toth From asholz at topinform.com Thu Oct 9 01:28:40 2003 From: asholz at topinform.com (Andreas Holz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:22 2005 Subject: Digi-Data corporation Tape drive docs sought In-Reply-To: <4A87BB40-F7A7-11D7-9719-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> References: <4A87BB40-F7A7-11D7-9719-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> Message-ID: <3F850018.1060405@topinform.com> Hello all, I got a Digi-Data Corporation, Model 1149-86-2-240-FP, Tape-Drive. I'm interested in any kind of documentation, esp, how to connect this tape to an Emulex TC02 tape-controller. The tape-controller has two connectors labeled J1 and J2, the tape-drive has four connectors, labeled JA to JD, so there are multiple choices while tring to connect the tape-drive, so I need some help! Andreas From waltje at pdp11.nl Thu Oct 9 01:29:18 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:22 2005 Subject: cctalk Digest, Vol 2, Issue 13 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > > OH MY GAWD! WHAT AM I SAYING? > > > > Ok , you leave her there. I'll carry her to the bedroom. :) > > Bedroom? Wheres your sense of adventure? ;) "A Real Retroist(tm) does it... on top of a VAX 11/7x0 !" .. --f -- Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist Visit the VAXlab Project at http://www.pdp11.nl/VAXlab/ Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Sunnyvale, CA, USA From nico at farumdata.dk Thu Oct 9 01:56:03 2003 From: nico at farumdata.dk (Nico de Jong) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:22 2005 Subject: cctalk Digest, Vol 2, Issue 13 References: Message-ID: <000c01c38e32$68a8ae60$2101a8c0@farumdata.dk> From: "Fred N. van Kempen" > > Bedroom? Wheres your sense of adventure? ;) > > "A Real Retroist(tm) does it... on top of a VAX 11/7x0 !" .. > Yes, but "real programmers" like me :-) do IT bit by bit Nico From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu Oct 9 02:33:56 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:22 2005 Subject: DEC 11/23 FP option (FPF11/M8188) information request In-Reply-To: Joe "Re: DEC 11/23 FP option (FPF11/M8188) information request" (Oct 8, 16:50) References: <3F8451B6.1000303@ecubics.com> <200310080952.01072.pat@purdueriots.com> <3.0.6.32.20031008165017.007bab70@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <10310090833.ZM23017@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Oct 8, 16:50, Joe wrote: > At 01:24 PM 10/8/03 -0500, you wrote: > >No, I was trying to indicate that the CPU was an 11/23 not an 11/23+. So, > >do I need some magic cable to go from a DIP socket on the CPU board to > >this card? If so, does anyone have a pinout for it? > > If you're referring to the large socket between the MMU and FP IC, then > it's a spare according to my DEC handbook. You take the FPU chip out, and put the connector for the FPP in its place. There's no point in having both! -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu Oct 9 02:33:43 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:22 2005 Subject: Acorn Econet In-Reply-To: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) "Re: Acorn Econet" (Oct 8, 21:24) References: Message-ID: <10310090833.ZM23014@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Oct 8, 21:24, Tony Duell wrote: > I see... Since I intend to start out by linking the ACW to a couple of > other machines (one acting as a fileserver), all on the same bench, I > assume I can get away with just about any cable :-) Well, I'd not use tinsel cable or damp string (even with salt) but apart from that... > Actually, I am not sure the card in the Atom is a real Acorn one. It's > the same circuit, and the same layout, but the PCB is not solder-masked. > It may be a copy.. Possibly. HCCS made some, I think. > > > The B+ (in the ACW) has PCB positions for the collision-detect > > comparator > > > chip, etc, but they're not fitted.... > > > > It's worth doing. > > OK, I'll add them sometime. It's farily obvious what to do from the > schematics (I have those). Will the software make use of the collision > detect circuitry, or do I need a particular version of the NFS ROM? No, all the ROMs I know of can handle that. > I wondered if you could do that... Alas I don't have the official Acorn > schematics for the clock and terminator, so while I can see the empty > places for termination resistors on the clock PCB, and while I can make a > guess as to the values, I don't know if said guess is good. Do you happen > to have a parts list or schematic? I have a schematic around here somewhere. [hunts through directories on nearby machine] Ah, that one's for the passive (DIN plug) one: A three-resistor divider chain, 1K0 at the top, 220R in the middle, 1K0 at the bottom, connected to ground (pin 2). Data+ (pin 1) goes to the to of the 220R, Data- (pin 4) goes to the lower end. A pair of 56R resistors goes from each of Clock+ (pin 3) and Clock- (pin 5) to the top of the upper 1K0. A 10 uF electrolytic goes from the junction of the 2 x 56R and upper 1K0, to ground. Jules Richardson has my pile of paper schematics, and I think that's where the other one is :-( Oh, but of course I have the box itself. Here we are: C1, C2: 10uF 10V C3: 10nF ceramic R1, R2: 56R R3: 100R R7: 470R D1: OA47 (anything with a low Vf, eg a Schottky diode, should do) IC3: LM7805 LED1: any old red LED (or you might want to change the colour for the combined clock/terminator unit) SK1: 5-pin 180deg PCB DIN socket SK2: power jack Fit wire links at LK1, LK2, LK3. Do you needs the component values for the collision-detect circuitry as well? I've got B and B+ diagrams here, which show them. > Well, I am a great beleiver in proper termination (resistors are cheap, > my time in tracing bad signals isn't). So, for example, while I might run > a Unibus for testing with only one terminator (if it's just one > backplane, say), any machine that I use will have a terminator at each > end. And I'll do the same with Econet. I should hope so too! You'll see a difference if you remove a terminator from an Econet of any useful size -- used to be a real problem in scholls, if they used DIN-plug terminators (kids used to "borrow" them). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From TRASH3 at splab.cas.neu.edu Thu Oct 9 07:36:59 2003 From: TRASH3 at splab.cas.neu.edu (TRASH3@splab.cas.neu.edu) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:22 2005 Subject: Digi-Data corporation Tape drive docs sought Message-ID: <031009083659.12062@splab.cas.neu.edu> 114 (7 inch diameter reel, 25 ips max speed) 9 (9 track) - 86 (800/1600 bpi) - 2 (again, 25 ips) - 240 ( 240 volts ac) - Fp (PE only) The manual shows 6 connectors on the bottom of the unit, probably inside. These are labelled J1 through J6. J1,J2 are motor control. J3, J4 are read card. J5,J6 are write/control card. J1,J2 are closest to front. On the top edge of the write/control card (closest to rear) are the two fifty-pin I/O connections. The manual says nothing about JA through JD. Perhaps it is an add-on formatter, which is not detailed in the manuals. Hope that helps, but I don't see how. Nothing matches for connectors. Joe Heck Andreas wrote: Subj: Digi-Data corporation Tape drive docs sought Hello all, I got a Digi-Data Corporation, Model 1149-86-2-240-FP, Tape-Drive. I'm interested in any kind of documentation, esp, how to connect this tape to an Emulex TC02 tape-controller. The tape-controller has two connectors labeled J1 and J2, the tape-drive has four connectors, labeled JA to JD, so there are multiple choices while tring to connect the tape-drive, so I need some help! Andreas From philip at awale.qc.ca Mon Oct 6 13:03:54 2003 From: philip at awale.qc.ca (philip@awale.qc.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:22 2005 Subject: Mac SE/30 revived! woot! In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.22.2.20031004132109.04a36b50@mail.zipcon.net> Message-ID: On 04-Oct-2003 Geoff Reed wrote: > >> >Now I go hunt for an SE PDS ethernet card. (Anyone have a spare?) > > I may have an old SE/30 ethernet card... Would you be prepared to trade/give/sell it? Also, I believe that I'll need some sort of riser? The cut-out on the case is 2 inches above where the motherboard is... -Philip From keith at saracom.com Mon Oct 6 17:33:50 2003 From: keith at saracom.com (Maxwell K. Froedge) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:22 2005 Subject: cctalk Digest, Vol 2, Issue 9 In-Reply-To: <200310061700.h96H03H5038476@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.1.20031006182547.01718018@mail.saracom.com> Jay, You want a machine with a 1.2 meg floppy diskette drive. You also do not want to use the 1.2 meg floppy diskettes. Instead use the 360K or even better quad density. Putr is by John Wilson. His website is: www.dbit.com FTP isL ftp.dbit.com Max At 12:00 PM 10/6/2003 -0500, you wrote: >Message: 16 >Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 09:21:04 -0500 >From: "Jay West" >Subject: memory refresher on PUTR >To: >Message-ID: <017401c38c15$13c53900$033310ac@kwcorp.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > >I used to know this, but have forgotten, and now I'm getting ready to dig >the software back out... > >I believe it was a program called PUTR that I used on a PC to read/write >5.25 floppy disks to exchange data with my PDP-11/23 that had an RX50 drive >in it. Should the PC drive be a 360k floppy or a 1.2m floppy? > >Wonder if there is some story as to the history of "disc" vs. "disk" :) HP >always used "disc". > >Jay West > >--- From jontitus at comcast.net Mon Oct 6 20:08:17 2003 From: jontitus at comcast.net (Jon Titus) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:23 2005 Subject: GE 73 bulbs for RL02 In-Reply-To: <200310062338.h96NbwH5040359@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: Try Bulb Direct at www.bulbdirect.com. I didn't see anything on the company's Web pages about a minimum order. Search for "73." You can view an outline of the bulb. I'm not sure the two "73" bulbs they offer fill the bill, but you can check it out. Jon Jon Titus 36 Sunset Drive Milford, MA 01757-1362 USA Phone: +1-508-478-8040 E-mail: jontitus@comcast.net Member, National Association of Science Writers -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of cctalk-request@classiccmp.org Sent: Monday, October 06, 2003 7:38 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: cctalk Digest, Vol 2, Issue 10 Send cctalk mailing list submissions to cctalk@classiccmp.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctalk or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to cctalk-request@classiccmp.org You can reach the person managing the list at cctalk-owner@classiccmp.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of cctalk digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Garage sale, DEC 3000/500 $50, HSZ40 $25, ... (Shannon Hoskins) 2. Re: Used Atari 2600 Game Cartridge goes for over $70 (David Holland) 3. Re: memory refresher on PUTR (W.B.(Wim) Hofman) 4. Re: black paper tape = mylar? (Eric Smith) 5. Re: memory refresher on PUTR (Eric Smith) 6. Re: memory refresher on PUTR (Fred N. van Kempen) 7. Re: 27SF512-70 (Joe) 8. Re: black paper tape = mylar? (Joe) 9. DEC cards available (John Rollins) 10. RE: Help! need 400k/800k Mac os 6 or 7 diskettes! (John Rollins) 11. Re: Am I seeing things? (Zane H. Healy) 12. Re: Am I seeing things? (Ed Sharpe) 13. Re: Am I seeing things? (Jay West) 14. Re: 27SF512-70 (John Lawson) 15. FA: HP 3000 cards and Omnibook Docking Station (Joe) 16. Re: Am I seeing things? (Vintage Computer Festival) 17. Re: Am I seeing things? (Fred N. van Kempen) 18. Re: Am I seeing things? (Joe) 19. Re: Help! need 400k/800k Mac os 6 or 7 diskettes! (TeoZ) 20. Re: Am I seeing things? (Joe) 21. RCS/RI Still In Existence? (O. Sharp) 22. VCF - Stuff for Sale (Marvin Johnston) 23. Re: Am I seeing things? (Ed Sharpe) 24. Re: Intel Programmer IPPS format (Robert Maxwell) 25. Re: Am I seeing things? (Fred N. van Kempen) 26. Re: DEC cards available Update (John Rollins Jr) 27. Re: Am I seeing things? (Chad Fernandez) 28. Re: Am I seeing things? (chris) 29. RE: Help! need 400k/800k Mac os 6 or 7 diskettes! (chris) 30. Re: Am I seeing things? (John Lawson) 31. Re: Need IIci cache cards (Geoff Reed) 32. Posting times (Marvin Johnston) 33. Re: Betr.: Acorn Econet (Tony Duell) 34. GE 73 bulbs for RL02 (John A. Dundas III) 35. VCF Want: Pertec formatters for Kennedy 9100 (John Lawson) 36. Re: VCF Want: Pertec formatters for Kennedy 9100 (Al Kossow) 37. SemiDisk Solid State Disk Emulator (Patrick Rigney) 38. Re: Help! need 400k/800k Mac os 6 or 7 diskettes! (Ian Primus) 39. Re: Posting times (Al Kossow) 40. Re: black paper tape = mylar? (Bob Shannon) 41. Re: Fat (512K) Mac Revival? (Andrew Strouse) 42. Re: Help! need 400k/800k Mac os 6 or 7 diskettes! (chris) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 08:39:13 -0700 From: "Shannon Hoskins" Subject: Re: Garage sale, DEC 3000/500 $50, HSZ40 $25, ... To: "General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only" Message-ID: <000c01c38c1f$ff2b2bc0$7f3ba5d1@shannon> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hello Zane, Where are you located? Sincerely, Shannon Hoskins ----- Original Message ----- From: "Zane H. Healy" To: Sent: Friday, October 03, 2003 3:19 PM Subject: Re: Garage sale, DEC 3000/500 $50, HSZ40 $25, ... > > Am I crazy to sell a DEC 3000/500 server (desk side) for $50? I > > believe it's got all the RAM it can fit and disk in and lots SCSI > > plugs out. My HSZ40s go for $25 a piece. My HP9000K400 with 2xDDS2 > > drives and 30 GB (?) RAID array and HP Terminal all in one rack go > > for $100. > > > > Am I crazy or just fed up about stuff taking space in my garage? > > I can't really comment on the HP (though it might be a little low). The > DEC3000/500 sounds about right. The HSZ40's are old enough to probably be > reasonable. > > Zane ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 13:14:56 -0400 (EDT) From: David Holland Subject: Re: Used Atari 2600 Game Cartridge goes for over $70 To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 6 Oct 2003, TeoZ wrote: > easily, just be carefull. Then again the stuff I look for isnt that > expensive, I dont think I spent more then $150 on any 1 item on ebay and > that was when I started 3 years ago. Eh, I have. SGI Octane, MXI graphics, 195Mhz R10K, 256Mb mem, No Disk 400$. A year later, I still consider 400$ a pretty reasonable deal. The only reason I considered it was the seller was local.... I picked it up in person. Obligatory ontopic piece: I've a SGI Crimson w VGXT too, Anyone got a sled or and/or skins they want to get rid of cheap.. :-) David ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 19:46:43 +0200 From: "W.B.(Wim) Hofman" Subject: Re: memory refresher on PUTR To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Message-ID: <001501c38c32$071e8540$8594f0c3@computer4> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" 360 Wim ----- Original Message ----- From: Jay West To: Sent: Monday, October 06, 2003 4:21 PM Subject: memory refresher on PUTR > I used to know this, but have forgotten, and now I'm getting ready to dig > the software back out... > > I believe it was a program called PUTR that I used on a PC to read/write > 5.25 floppy disks to exchange data with my PDP-11/23 that had an RX50 drive > in it. Should the PC drive be a 360k floppy or a 1.2m floppy? > > Wonder if there is some story as to the history of "disc" vs. "disk" :) HP > always used "disc". > > Jay West > > --- > [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 11:00:41 -0700 (PDT) From: "Eric Smith" Subject: Re: black paper tape = mylar? To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Message-ID: <39309.64.169.63.74.1065463241.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 > I was wanting to get some mylar paper tape. There is an auction on Ebay > for > 6 rolls of "black paper tape"... can one generally assume that black paper > tape is mylar and not just paper? No. All the black "paper tape" I've ever used was in fact paper. ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 11:02:39 -0700 (PDT) From: "Eric Smith" Subject: Re: memory refresher on PUTR To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Message-ID: <39321.64.169.63.74.1065463359.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 > I believe it was a program called PUTR that I used on a PC to read/write > 5.25 floppy disks to exchange data with my PDP-11/23 that had an RX50 > drive > in it. Should the PC drive be a 360k floppy or a 1.2m floppy? 1.2M. The RX50 is an 80-track single sided drive, so their is no way to read or write the discs in a 40-track 360k drive. But a 1.2M drive will work fine. ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 20:30:57 +0200 (CEST) From: "Fred N. van Kempen" Subject: Re: memory refresher on PUTR To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 6 Oct 2003, Eric Smith wrote: > > I believe it was a program called PUTR that I used on a PC to read/write > > 5.25 floppy disks to exchange data with my PDP-11/23 that had an RX50 > > drive > > in it. Should the PC drive be a 360k floppy or a 1.2m floppy? > > 1.2M. The RX50 is an 80-track single sided drive, so their is no way > to read or write the discs in a 40-track 360k drive. But a 1.2M drive > will work fine. Hmm.. Jay: I stand corrected. Indeed, they're 80tr, not 40tr... --f ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2003 11:33:27 -0400 From: Joe Subject: Re: 27SF512-70 To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031006113327.007d6bb0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Somebody needs to tell this clown that this isn't his private procurement list! Joe At 05:09 PM 10/3/03 -0500, you wrote: >I would like to know if you have any of these chips available. They are >the direct flash replacement for the 27C512 that I'm looking for. > >Thanks >Mehdi Mir > ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2003 11:35:36 -0400 From: Joe Subject: Re: black paper tape = mylar? To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031006113536.007d76a0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 07:48 AM 10/6/03 -0500, you wrote: >I was wanting to get some mylar paper tape. There is an auction on Ebay for >6 rolls of "black paper tape"... can one generally assume that black paper >tape is mylar and not just paper? NO! I have several boxs of black PAPER tape so they do (did!) make the stuff. Joe > >The URL is http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2562042672 > >Can anyone advise if this is likely to be mylar or not? > >Regards, > >Jay West > >--- >[This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > > ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 11:34:42 -0700 From: John Rollins Subject: DEC cards available To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" I got these cards a while back(I think I asked what they were here on the list back in 2001), mostly MicroVAX II cards I think, all Q-bus. I'm mostly interested in getting these out of the way... I have no plans for building or keeping spares for a MicroVAX or anything beside my 11/84. Not sure what they're worth, and keep in mind they are untested. Make an offer plus actual shipping - I'll also consider trades for Unibus cards for my 11/84. Whatever the list doesn't want I'll probably put on eBay(I'll give you guys a week or two for those that don't keep up with their email very well). National Semiconductor NS638 - memory card with a 50-pin connector on the front Sigma Information Systems DZV11 clone unknown Emulex - marked TU0210401 M7551-CA MSV11-QC Q 4-Mbyte 22-bit parity/CSR MOS RAM M7164 KDA50-Q Q-bus SDI adapter 1 of 2 M7606-AF MicroVAX II CPU M7608-BC not in guide? MicroVAX II RAM M7608-BF M7516-YM DELQA-M Q Qbus to Ethernet Turbo Module, Q22 M8053-MA DMV11 Microprogrammed controller (needs one of M5930-M5931) with DDCMP control ROM (point-to-point or multidrop) I have three of these: M3104 DHV11-A Q 8-line Asynchronous Multiplexor, with DMA -- /------------------------------------\ | http://jrollins.tripod.com/ | | KD7BCY kd7bcy@teleport.com | \------------------------------------/From cctalk-admin Mon Oct 6 13:43:26 2003 Received: from epic.mail.pas.earthlink.net (epic.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.181]) by huey.classiccmp.org (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h96IhQH3038860 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 13:43:26 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from kd7bcy@teleport.com) Received: from sdn-ap-014watacop0163.dialsprint.net ([63.191.200.163]) by epic.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1A6aC4-0004hY-00 for cctalk@classiccmp.org; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 11:34:53 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: kd7bcy@mail.teleport.com Message-Id: Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 11:07:28 -0700 To: cctalk@classiccmp.org From: John Rollins Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Subject: Am I seeing things? X-BeenThere: cctalk@classiccmp.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" List-Id: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Is it just me or are there a lot of people posting to the list responding to things that are non existent or ancient from an archive or something? Especially these people mentioning a web site and asking to buy something. Seems that there has been a lot of that lately. -- /------------------------------------\ | http://jrollins.tripod.com/ | | KD7BCY kd7bcy@teleport.com | \------------------------------------/ ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 12:10:09 -0700 From: John Rollins Subject: RE: Help! need 400k/800k Mac os 6 or 7 diskettes! To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >Apple stopped having the drives read and write 400 and 800 k disks a >while ago. Actually the System does that... I don't remember when though. I think it might have been System 8 that stopped reading 400k, I remember because I was real mad about not being able to use my PM6500 to do disks for my 128k, and then I ended up with an iMac and the iDock doesn't work under X(until you pull the cable going to the ADB and serial that is) but the USB floppy only handles 1.4MB anyway! So now it's time to get the LC up and running again I guess. But if you have Mac with the SuperDrive(floppy, not DVD-R!) in it, and you have something prior to System 8/9, you can do 400k disks all day long. Just keep a System 7 boot disk around! That oughta work with anything prior to a G3. -- /------------------------------------\ | http://jrollins.tripod.com/ | | KD7BCY kd7bcy@teleport.com | \------------------------------------/ ------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 12:12:48 -0700 From: "Zane H. Healy" Subject: Re: Am I seeing things? To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Is it just me or are there a lot of people posting to the list responding to things that are non existent or ancient from an archive or something? Especially these people mentioning a web site and asking to buy something. Seems that there has been a lot of that lately. I must confess, I was wondering about the "Re: VAXen available" message... It made now sense to me. Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | ------------------------------ Message: 12 Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 13:18:06 -0700 From: "Ed Sharpe" Subject: Re: Am I seeing things? To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Message-ID: <000d01c38c46$f474cac0$262e98ac@aoldsl.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" and I thought I was the one imagining it! ed! ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Rollins" To: Sent: Monday, October 06, 2003 11:07 AM Subject: Am I seeing things? > Is it just me or are there a lot of people posting to the list > responding to things that are non existent or ancient from an archive > or something? Especially these people mentioning a web site and > asking to buy something. Seems that there has been a lot of that > lately. > > > -- > > /------------------------------------\ > | http://jrollins.tripod.com/ | > | KD7BCY kd7bcy@teleport.com | > \------------------------------------/ > > ------------------------------ Message: 13 Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 14:12:48 -0500 From: "Jay West" Subject: Re: Am I seeing things? To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Message-ID: <00b001c38c3d$d4fdc380$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Yes, there is a public archive of the list postings. I kinda thought that's what the public archives were FOR? I especially like it when they talk about ancient things *S* I filter a lot of these so they never hit the list. But often I let them through because I feel that is what we are here for.. to be a resource. Maybe I'm being too lenient? J > Is it just me or are there a lot of people posting to the list > responding to things that are non existent or ancient from an archive > or something? Especially these people mentioning a web site and > asking to buy something. Seems that there has been a lot of that > lately. --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] ------------------------------ Message: 14 Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 15:30:21 -0400 (EDT) From: John Lawson Subject: Re: 27SF512-70 To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 6 Oct 2003, Joe wrote: > Somebody needs to tell this clown that this isn't his private procurement > list! > > Joe Hey Joe... decaf, man - remember: Decaf!! ;} Anyway - do recall that whenever someone Googles for a specific part, it is possible that they get pointed to an old message from Classiccmp in an archive - and so they don't really have any way of knowing that they are adressing a list of amateur collectors - so ya cut 'em some slack a bit.. And just think - what if it was *you* that just happened to have a nice stash of them chips the poor guy is desperate for... woo hoo!! Cheers John ------------------------------ Message: 15 Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2003 15:34:46 -0400 From: Joe Subject: FA: HP 3000 cards and Omnibook Docking Station To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031006153446.007f3d70@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Joe ------------------------------ Message: 16 Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 12:40:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Vintage Computer Festival Subject: Re: Am I seeing things? To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 6 Oct 2003, John Rollins wrote: > Is it just me or are there a lot of people posting to the list > responding to things that are non existent or ancient from an archive > or something? Especially these people mentioning a web site and > asking to buy something. Seems that there has been a lot of that > lately. It comes in spurts. I think Jay is still (hopefully) working on a solution ;) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage mputers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at ttp://marketplace.vintage.org ] ------------------------------ Message: 17 Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 21:41:37 +0200 (CEST) From: "Fred N. van Kempen" Subject: Re: Am I seeing things? To: Ed Sharpe , "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII This seems to be coming our way in waves.... ahwell. --f ------------------------------ Message: 18 Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2003 15:42:39 -0400 From: Joe Subject: Re: Am I seeing things? To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031006154239.007b9b70@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 11:07 AM 10/6/03 -0700, you wrote: >Is it just me or are there a lot of people posting to the list >responding to things that are non existent or ancient from an archive >or something? They seem to be responding to things out of the archive. Most of them are OLD and a couple of them are really OT. Personally I'd like to filter out any messages from non-members, or at least have them pre-viewed and approved by someone. My $.02 worth, Joe Especially these people mentioning a web site and >asking to buy something. Seems that there has been a lot of that >lately. > > >-- > >/------------------------------------\ >| http://jrollins.tripod.com/ | >| KD7BCY kd7bcy@teleport.com | >\------------------------------------/ > ------------------------------ Message: 19 Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 15:45:30 -0400 From: "TeoZ" Subject: Re: Help! need 400k/800k Mac os 6 or 7 diskettes! To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Message-ID: <010b01c38c42$66277d20$3d7ca418@neo.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I have use my "newer" macs 8500/7500/840av/950/IIfx to make 800k disks for my IIgs and have noticed that the auto inject 1.44 drives use on the older systems (IIfx, 840av, 950) have no problems making disks that are readable on the IIgs while the 8500/7500 non inject floppies cant do it reliably. So your better off using an old quadra to make 800k disks for older machines. I have no idea about writing 400k disks because I dont have any machines that use them. ------------------------------ Message: 20 Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2003 15:47:09 -0400 From: Joe Subject: Re: Am I seeing things? To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031006154709.007ba540@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 02:12 PM 10/6/03 -0500, you wrote: >Yes, there is a public archive of the list postings. I kinda thought that's >what the public archives were FOR? I especially like it when they talk >about ancient things *S* > >I filter a lot of these so they never hit the list. But often I let them >through because I feel that is what we are here for.. to be a resource. >Maybe I'm being too lenient? Probably. I've replied to a couple of people looking for things and NONE of them has ever responded so I seldom bother any more. Joe ------------------------------ Message: 21 Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 12:47:07 -0700 (PDT) From: "O. Sharp" Subject: RCS/RI Still In Existence? To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Does anybody know if the Retrocomputing Society of Rhode Island (http://osfn.org/rcs/) is still around? I've sent a couple of e-mails their way, and tried their phone number, but not with any luck. I saw one of the things on their online "wish-list" up for auction on eBay, and thought about having a go at getting it for them, but it'd be nice to know if they still needed it first. (Not to mention making sure I wasn't bidding _against_ them. ) -O.- ------------------------------ Message: 22 Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2003 12:58:17 -0700 From: Marvin Johnston Subject: VCF - Stuff for Sale To: ClassicCmp Message-ID: <3F81C959.8B4B6FAA@rain.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Rather than post the stuff here, a link to the things I'll be selling at VCF is at: http://www.rain.org/~marvin/vcf.txt As the week goes by, I'll be adding to the list and updating it as necessary. ------------------------------ Message: 23 Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 14:12:13 -0700 From: "Ed Sharpe" Subject: Re: Am I seeing things? To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Message-ID: <004b01c38c4e$83718ae0$262e98ac@aoldsl.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" no we just got confused as we all belong to both lists.... but it was freaky when it would appear as a group on the other list.... sometimes we forget there are two lists... no problem just tempory confusion all is well! ed! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jay West" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Monday, October 06, 2003 12:12 PM Subject: Re: Am I seeing things? > Yes, there is a public archive of the list postings. I kinda thought that's > what the public archives were FOR? I especially like it when they talk > about ancient things *S* > > I filter a lot of these so they never hit the list. But often I let them > through because I feel that is what we are here for.. to be a resource. > Maybe I'm being too lenient? > > J > > Is it just me or are there a lot of people posting to the list > > responding to things that are non existent or ancient from an archive > > or something? Especially these people mentioning a web site and > > asking to buy something. Seems that there has been a lot of that > > lately. > > --- > [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > > > ------------------------------ Message: 24 Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 16:24:35 -0400 From: Robert Maxwell Subject: Re: Intel Programmer IPPS format To: "'cctech@classiccmp.org'" , "'dmabry@mich.com'" Message-ID: <9726BA9DE867D51183B900B0D0AB85F8013E4873@INETMAIL> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Dave, your hazy memory is great. You just filled in a critical blank that has made a world of difference. Searching the planet for references to "IPPS" turned up nothing, but "OMF" is still quite nicely documented on the Web. My favorite file-format reference, www.wotsit.org, has a document for OMF, as do some other sites. Armed with this knowledge, I can now look at modifying an old Motorola S-record to Intel Hex converter with a new front end to suck up the OMF records and spit them out in Hex. All the best, Bob Maxwell rmaxwell@atlantissi.com Dave Mabry wrote: > Now, as is normal for me, this is hazy, but I think I > remember what you > are talking about. > > Intel used a format they called "object module format" that > had header > information on each block, and several possible blocks. As I recall, > the MCS48 family, due to its limited memory addressibility, used the > same OMF (object module format) as the 8080. > > Naturally, since Intel defined it, all their tools could read > and write > it. IPPS was the name of the software used to read and write EPROMS, > etc, using Intel's iUP-201 programmer. > > All that being said, I think I can help you. If you don't > have anything > that can read and understand Intel's OMF, I do. I have a > working system > that can execute IPPS. There are other utilities in the > Intel operating > system, ISIS-II, that can also do this. I should be able to convert > your OMF file to an Intel HEX format file. Intel HEX is very > common and > most programmers can understand it. It is also block oriented, but > ascii characters rather than pure binary. > > Sorry to be so wordy, but bottom line is this. (into > Technicolor dream > mode) If you send me your OMF file I can convert it to HEX > and send it > back to you. Hope that will help. > > Dave > > Robert Maxwell wrote: > > This will meet the on-topic age requirement, at least... > > > > For programming devices like processors and EPROMS with > an Intel Universal > > Programmer, > > a file format was used, called "IPPS." I need to program > 8749 processors > > from files > > in IPPS format, and have no working Universal Programmer. > > > > The format appears to be a block-oriented binary, with a > file header > > identifying the > > target device, and headers of indeterminate size preceding > sections of > > binary code. > > Nobody I spoke to at Intel recognizes it. > > > > Does anybody remember, or have access to, > documentation/data or (dreaming > > in Technicolor(R)) > > a utility to convert IPPS files into a less-unique format, > say binary or > > Intel Hex? This > > would save me from having to type in hex values from an old > listing to > > regenerate the code. ------------------------------ Message: 25 Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 22:27:55 +0200 (CEST) From: "Fred N. van Kempen" Subject: Re: Am I seeing things? To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 6 Oct 2003, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > It comes in spurts. I think Jay is still (hopefully) working on a > solution ;) Yeah, lets hope Jay's working on his spurts. --f ------------------------------ Message: 26 Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 13:33:49 -0700 (GMT-07:00) From: John Rollins Jr Subject: Re: DEC cards available Update To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Message-ID: <11306683.1065472434057.JavaMail.root@waldorf.psp.pas.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Started to go fast! These are still available: National Semiconductor NS638 - memory card with a 50-pin connector on the front Sigma Information Systems DZV11 clone unknown Emulex - marked TU0210401 M7164 KDA50-Q Q-bus SDI adapter 1 of 2 M7606-AF MicroVAX II CPU M7608-BC not in guide? MicroVAX II RAM M7608-BF I have three of these: M3104 DHV11-A Q 8-line Asynchronous Multiplexor, with DMA These have been spoken for: M7551-CA MSV11-QC Q 4-Mbyte 22-bit parity/CSR MOS RAM M7516-YM DELQA-M Q Qbus to Ethernet Turbo Module, Q22 M8053-MA DMV11 Microprogrammed controller (needs one of M5930-M5931) with DDCMP control ROM (point-to-point or multidrop) Thanks! -JR ------------------------------ Message: 27 Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2003 16:30:40 -0400 From: Chad Fernandez Subject: Re: Am I seeing things? To: General@internet1.net, "Discussion@internet1.net":On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Message-ID: <3F81D0F0.9090108@internet1.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed That was a reply to a message that Chuck McMannis posted. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Zane H. Healy wrote: >>Is it just me or are there a lot of people posting to the list responding to things that are non existent or ancient from an archive or something? Especially these people mentioning a web site and asking to buy something. Seems that there has been a lot of that lately. > > > I must confess, I was wondering about the "Re: VAXen available" message... It made now sense to me. > > Zane > ------------------------------ Message: 28 Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 16:37:07 -0400 From: chris Subject: Re: Am I seeing things? To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts " Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" >I filter a lot of these so they never hit the list. But often I let them >through because I feel that is what we are here for.. to be a resource. >Maybe I'm being too lenient? I'm wondering if you can somehow mark the message as one that came from someone off list. I bring this up, because I've been confused by some and wondering if responses should go onlist or off list. If the poster is off list, then responses should go directly to them, or they won't get their response for a few months until the archives have circulated thru google and the likes. just my thoughts, I'm not trying to imply it needs to be followed. Nor trying to start a discussion on the topic. -chris ------------------------------ Message: 29 Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 16:39:32 -0400 From: chris Subject: RE: Help! need 400k/800k Mac os 6 or 7 diskettes! To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts " Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" >>Apple stopped having the drives read and write 400 and 800 k disks a >>while ago. > >Actually the System does that... I don't remember when though. Well, yes, I didn't mean to imply that it was a drive limit. Just that Apple stopped letting a user read and write 400 and 800 K disks a while ago (I believe you are right and it was OS 8, but I'm not postive). -chris ------------------------------ Message: 30 Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 16:44:31 -0400 (EDT) From: John Lawson Subject: Re: Am I seeing things? To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 6 Oct 2003, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Mon, 6 Oct 2003, John Rollins wrote: > > > Is it just me or are there a lot of people posting to the list [snippage] > > It comes in spurts. I think Jay is still (hopefully) working on a > solution ;) > As Jay mentioned - I'm not altogether sure that these messages from folks are a Bad Thing - it never hurts to have 'fresh' sources for collection related possiblilties. Recall that the PDP 11/44 system I own was rescued from a Big Corporation (and certain death) due to the ex-sysop finding classiccmp quite by accident. Now, in the case of blatant commercial exploitative type ads, or spam, then of course it should hopefully be diverted to /dev/nul. But I think a little tolerance shoyuld be shown for folks who are just researching parts and systems - at least we can be polite in our explanations. And yes, these type of "I was searching for X and found your site.." messages *do* seem to come in waves... I dunno... Cheers John ------------------------------ Message: 31 Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2003 13:57:51 -0700 From: Geoff Reed Subject: Re: Need IIci cache cards To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.2.20031006135647.04a4b0f0@mail.zipcon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 07:47 AM 10/6/03, you wrote: >If I remember the benchmark results correctly, the extra 32k speeds up video >by a few percent, and "Scientific" operations (IE floating point math) by a >few tens of percentage points. > >I've got a 128k cache card and it speeds up everything by quite a bit. >Probably has something to do with the built-in video getting sped up. I have a cache card in my IICX :) ok, so it's an Diimo accellerator with cache on it on an adaptor :) but it speeds everything WAY up... 50 Mhz 030 :) ------------------------------ Message: 32 Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2003 14:07:33 -0700 From: Marvin Johnston Subject: Posting times To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Message-ID: <3F81D995.9FB4C6DF@rain.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Anyone else seeing extended times (< 15 minutes or so) before their posts get to the list? Kind of annoying to post something and not see it pop up on the list within a relatively short time!!! ------------------------------ Message: 33 Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 22:31:41 +0100 (BST) From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Subject: Re: Betr.: Acorn Econet To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1515 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20031006/6abf51aa/att achment-0001.ksh ------------------------------ Message: 34 Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 15:08:18 -0700 From: "John A. Dundas III" Subject: GE 73 bulbs for RL02 To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Can anyone recommend a good source for the GE 73 bulbs used in the front panel switches of the RL02? A web search turned up Atlanta Light Bulbs. They claim to have them for $0.99/ea, minimum quantity 10. However when you try to check out, the minimum $ order is ~$30. I don't mind buying 10, but 30 is too many and I'm not really short on other bulbs at this time. Any suggestions? Thanks, John ------------------------------ Message: 35 Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 18:10:18 -0400 (EDT) From: John Lawson Subject: VCF Want: Pertec formatters for Kennedy 9100 To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII As message header states: I'm looking for one or two Pertec formatter cards for Kennedy 91xx series tape drives - with cables, if possible. Have $$$ for same - will be at VCF looking to trade $ for Stuff. Also, I'm looking for 2 or 3 DEC RL02 drives, one at least in good working shape - with an interconnect cable and terminator. Can pick up in Bay Area.... Cheerz John ------------------------------ Message: 36 Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 15:21:49 -0700 From: Al Kossow Subject: Re: VCF Want: Pertec formatters for Kennedy 9100 To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Message-ID: <200310062221.h96MLnbh015108@spies.com> > I'm looking for one or two Pertec formatter > cards for Kennedy 91xx series tape drives - with cables, if possible. 91xx formatters are separate rack mounted boxes (9219) www.spies.com/aek/pdf/kennedy/006-0002-01_9219_formatter.pdf is the manual for the 9219 If you are using these on DEC systems, you may have better luck finding embedded Unibus or Qbus formatters made by Emulex, Plessey, Dilog, etc. ------------------------------ Message: 37 Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 15:23:37 -0700 From: "Patrick Rigney" Subject: SemiDisk Solid State Disk Emulator To: Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Does anyone have a PDF scan of the manual for a SemiDisk solid-state disk emulator? Please contact me if you do... --Patrick ------------------------------ Message: 38 Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 18:24:23 -0400 From: Ian Primus Subject: Re: Help! need 400k/800k Mac os 6 or 7 diskettes! To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed IIRC, you could no longer use 400k disks as of System 7.6, but you can still use 800k disks up through System 9, provided of course that you have a Mac with an internal floppy drive. The external USB drives are, for the most part, PC clone laptop style drives, and therefore can not read or write the GCR disks. But, you _can_ write 400k floppies on System 7.6 and up with Disk Copy. You can't mount the image, and you can't mount the disk you created, but it does work. Once again, you have to have a Mac with an internal floppy drive. Why Apple stopped offering floppy drives, I don't know. I know that the first peripheral I bought for my G4 was a floppy drive, and I still hate the fact that it's slow as hell, and doesn't have auto eject. Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com On Monday, October 6, 2003, at 04:39 PM, chris wrote: >>> Apple stopped having the drives read and write 400 and 800 k disks a >>> while ago. >> >> Actually the System does that... I don't remember when though. > > Well, yes, I didn't mean to imply that it was a drive limit. Just that > Apple stopped letting a user read and write 400 and 800 K disks a while > ago (I believe you are right and it was OS 8, but I'm not postive). > > -chris > > ------------------------------ Message: 39 Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 15:56:36 -0700 From: Al Kossow Subject: Re: Posting times To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Message-ID: <200310062256.h96Mua2p019520@spies.com> Anyone else seeing extended times (< 15 minutes or so) before their posts get to the list? -- I'm more concerned that the archive sort by date isn't corrected for local time zone. Since the sort by thread doesn't always work right, I just watch the list from the archive, but now the replies can show up in the list before the original question, depending on when the original message was posted. ------------------------------ Message: 40 Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2003 19:05:02 -0400 From: Bob Shannon Subject: Re: black paper tape = mylar? To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Message-ID: <3F81F51E.1060507@tiac.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Mylar paper tape has never come in black, as far as I know. Black paper tape was sold for use with photoelectric paper tape readers like HP's, which work, sometimes with yellow paper (until any oil get on the tape anyway). But the black stuff makes even a sloppy optical reader work great, and it does not kill the edges on your punch like Mylar will do. Jay West wrote: >I was wanting to get some mylar paper tape. There is an auction on Ebay for >6 rolls of "black paper tape"... can one generally assume that black paper >tape is mylar and not just paper? > >The URL is http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2562042672 > >Can anyone advise if this is likely to be mylar or not? > >Regards, > >Jay West > >--- >[This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > > ------------------------------ Message: 41 Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 00:29:54 -0400 From: "Andrew Strouse" Subject: Re: Fat (512K) Mac Revival? To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Message-ID: <000201c38c5e$c068e460$7d444a43@amscomputer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" There doesn't seem to be any battery in the back at all. Where do I go about getting one of those? I haven't cracked the unit open yet but I will and check the power supply. Andrew Strouse ( kittstr@access-4-free.com ) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Al Hartman" To: Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2003 1:09 PM Subject: Re: Fat (512K) Mac Revival? > It could be something as simple as a bad PRAM battery. > There's a little door in the upper back, that has a > battery in it. > > Open it and see if there's a battery in there. If it > hasn't exploded... You probably can try replacing that > as a start. > > Next would be the Power Supply/Analog board. > > But, yes... You should be able to buy a replacement > cheaper than fixing that unit. Though, you might find > buyers for the parts to help fund that. > > Regards, > Al Hartman > > > > From: "Andrew Strouse" > > > > The recent discussion about reviving a Mac SE/30 > > reminded me that I have a "fat mac" in my closet > > collecting dust. I found it after a yard sale a > > few years ago. ( I like to go late and see what > > finds I can get for nothing because the people just > > want the stuff out of their house.) I remember > > when I plugged it in, nothing happened. No sounds, > > lights, bars, patterns, sad/happy macs, etc. Does > > anyone have any suggestions of what to do to > > attempt to get it running. Is it worth it? (I'd > > like to play with it but could I find another one > > that works for less than it will take to fix?) > > It came with a large box of disks, and external > > drive, mouse and keyboard, so it seemed like a > > complete system, except that it doesn't work. > > > > Thanks in advance. > > > > Andrew Strouse > >( kittstr@access-4-free.com ) > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search > http://shopping.yahoo.com > ------------------------------ Message: 42 Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 19:11:46 -0400 From: chris Subject: Re: Help! need 400k/800k Mac os 6 or 7 diskettes! To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts " Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" >IIRC, you could no longer use 400k disks as of System 7.6, but you can >still use 800k disks up through System 9, provided of course that you >have a Mac with an internal floppy drive. I can't reliably read or write 800K disks in my PM 6500 with OS 9.0.4. Haven't been able to for a few OS versions. Also can't in my PM 9600. It attempts it, and is sometimes works for reading an 800K disk. It can also on occasion write to 800K disks, but it can never format them. It will attempt a format, it will even complete it without complaint... but the disk will be undreadable in machines running older OS versions. If I format in an older machine, I can then get a few writes to the disk before the data is unreadable in an older machine (and if the disk is freshly formatted, then I can usually get one or two reads as well). So based on personal experience, I just chalk it up that Apple stopped letting you do both 400 and 800 (with 400 being right out) >Why Apple stopped >offering floppy drives, I don't know. Cost cutting. They were trying to get the iMac down to as cheap a build as possible, and they knew that most consumers would have little need for a floppy drive in the long run. So it was a place to shave a few bucks off the manufacturing costs. Alas when they choose to do it, it was still a tad premature, as yes, in the LONG run, most consumers wouldn't need a floppy drive... but until they migrated their entire collection of old disks to something else, then they still needed it (but its a typical catch-22... if Apple left the drive in, no consumer would migrate their stuff in anticipation for the removal of the drive, so the consumer wasn't going to stop needing the drive, until right after the drive was no longer there) -chris End of cctalk Digest, Vol 2, Issue 10 ************************************* From djg at pdp8online.com Mon Oct 6 20:51:16 2003 From: djg at pdp8online.com (David Gesswein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:23 2005 Subject: ASR33 Teletype interfacing Message-ID: <200310070151.h971pGN12743@user-119apiu.biz.mindspring.com> From: Ian Primus >One problem is that I don't know >what the Teletype is _supposed_ to do. I have never seen one >operational > Did you see my teletype page? It has movies of an operating teletype http://www.pdp8.net/asr33/asr33.shtml Not too different than operation in local mode. >I have been attempting to get my ASR33 teletype connected to something >and communicating, but so far I have not been successful. I have built >the interface here : >http://www.daedalus.co.nz/~don/computing/20mahack.html > It looks pretty marginal, a lot of serial ports aren't going to have the drive. I made a converter with optoisolators & rs-232 chips etc which is a lot more complex than needed and also was a little strange since I made it before I got that degree. If nobody has pointed you to a better one I can scan my schematic, >15 years ago radio shack had the parts. David Gesswein http://www.pdp8.net/ -- Run an old computer with blinkenlights Have any PDP-8 stuff you're willing to part with? From ken at fraserhouse.com Mon Oct 6 21:47:28 2003 From: ken at fraserhouse.com (Ken Campbell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:23 2005 Subject: Looking for Overland OD3201 Tape unit Message-ID: <2D878B3472AA1F9690F400FC@ip115-170.ott.istop.com> Trying to find an Overland Data, Inc. OD3201 9-track reel-to-reel unit. It is a reasonably thin, grey unit that stands vertically and has a plexiglas window built in the door. Please reply directly to ken@fraserhouse.com including condition and price. Thanks, Ken Campbell From philip at awale.qc.ca Mon Oct 6 22:33:39 2003 From: philip at awale.qc.ca (philip@awale.qc.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:23 2005 Subject: Mac SE/30 revival In-Reply-To: <21791196-F5FD-11D7-91F9-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> Message-ID: d On 03-Oct-2003 Ian Primus wrote: > the only disadvantage is that you don't have a great deal of leverage > with a pencil... I actually used a variation on the design : I put the torx hex bit in one end of the pen body (which could be any roundish, soft plastic pen body) and a hex/hex bit at the other end (gender changer?), then a hex extender and finaly my hex screwdriver. More then enough leverage. -Philip From ken at fraserhouse.com Tue Oct 7 08:16:20 2003 From: ken at fraserhouse.com (Ken Campbell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:23 2005 Subject: Looking for Overland OD3201 Tape unit Message-ID: <2D881E9672AA845C7F45062E@ip115-170.ott.istop.com> Trying to find an Overland Data, Inc. OD3201 9-track reel-to-reel unit. It is a reasonably thin, grey unit that stands vertically and has a plexiglas window built in the door. Please reply directly to ken@fraserhouse.com including condition and price. Thanks, Ken Campbell From peter.mccollum at hp.com Tue Oct 7 11:50:56 2003 From: peter.mccollum at hp.com (McCollum, Peter) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:23 2005 Subject: DEC Pro 380 Info Request Message-ID: <9B832BEB407A774AA0520CCFC2322197046700FA@cxoexc11.americas.cpqcorp.net> On an LK201 keyboard, "Resume" is in the top row (like an "F" key on a PC kybd), 7th from the left. Pete -----Original Message----- From: Charles H. Dickman [mailto:chd_1@nktelco.net] Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2003 10:43 AM To: info-pdp11; cctech@classiccmp.org Subject: DEC Pro 380 Info Request I now have a DEC Professional 380 that was originally a VAX Console. Inspecting it, I find a floppy interface, a Winchester interface, and an RTI interface (used for the VAX I think). The disk is an RD52 with a big piece of red tape that says TOP SECRET. I have lots of questions.... After looking for pinouts, I have attached a NEC Multisync 3D monitor and an LK201 keyboard to the VIDEO 1 port. During the self test I get an error saying a key is stuck on the keyboard. This may indeed be true, I have not tested the keyboard before. It also says hit to continue. The keyboard has no key. I suspect there were various markings for the keycaps. Any suggestion on which key might be ? What are the monochrome monitor specifications (horizontal frequency, vertical frequency, etc)? It looks like the NEC 3D can barely get the correct sync. This monitor is a bit old and when it warms up it loses sync. Not sure if this is a problem with the monitor, or I am just stretching its specs too much. A NEC XV17 I tried would not even begin to sync. I read that the printer port is also a console for the Pro. After finding the pinouts, I connected a terminal to the port and a break dropped me into ODT. Is there microPDP-11/83 style firmware in there somewhere that I can use on the PR 1 port or do I have to use the keyboard and video? Using ODT, I can see that there are 512kB of memory. The RTI seems interesting, but I have not seen any pinouts for the 62 pin connector. From what I can find there are two serial ports, a 24 line bi-directional I/O port and an IEEE-488 port. Pretty cool, but useless without a pinout... -chuck ---------- To unsubscribe (or subscribe) from (to) this list, send a message to info-pdp11-request@village.org, with the first line of the message body being "unsubscribe" or "subscribe", respectively (without the quotes). From ken at fraserhouse.com Tue Oct 7 12:12:54 2003 From: ken at fraserhouse.com (Ken Campbell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:23 2005 Subject: Looking for Overland OD3201 Tape unit Message-ID: <2D88560572AA47D224EB063B@ip115-170.ott.istop.com> Trying to find an Overland Data, Inc. OD3201 (or similar) 9-track reel-to-reel unit. It is a reasonably thin, grey unit that stands vertically and has a plexiglas window built in the door. Please reply directly to ken@fraserhouse.com including condition and price. Thanks, Ken Campbell From ken at fraserhouse.com Tue Oct 7 15:26:58 2003 From: ken at fraserhouse.com (Ken Campbell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:23 2005 Subject: Looking for Overland OD3201 Tape unit Message-ID: <2D88837B72AAE58A2A9B064B@ip115-170.ott.istop.com> Trying to find an Overland Data, Inc. OD3201 (or similar model) 9-track reel-to-reel unit. It is a reasonably thin, grey unit that stands vertically and has a plexiglas window built in the door. Please reply directly to ken@fraserhouse.com including condition and price. Thanks, Ken Campbell From bear at typewritten.org Tue Oct 7 19:00:58 2003 From: bear at typewritten.org (r.stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:23 2005 Subject: EISA config for Everex STEP DP In-Reply-To: <20031006080400.GA19314@svs.inside.caravan.ru> Message-ID: <7F045D0C-F922-11D7-B71D-000A956C4CA0@typewritten.org> carroll bloyd On Monday, October 6, 2003, at 01:04 AM, Sergey Svishchev wrote: > You posted a request for !EVX0101.CFG on classiccmp. Unfortunately, I > don't have one; I'm looking for !EVX0002.CFG myself. I actually received a copy of the ECU disk I was looking for from Carroll Bloyd, a few days after I submitted my plea. I just checked the disk, and while there are a number of additional Everex EISA .CFG files on the disk (including !EVX0001.CFG), the one you're looking for isn't. I'll keep my eyes open and let you know if I stumble across it. ok bear From geoff at pkworks.com Tue Oct 7 22:11:57 2003 From: geoff at pkworks.com (Geoffrey G. Rochat) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:23 2005 Subject: Fw: thought you might want to respond Message-ID: <002a01c38d49$efc06bc0$ad6ff4d0@Administrator> Oh yes, the RetroComputing Society of Rhode Island is still very much in business (www.osfn.org/rcs). {As is the Rhode Island Computer Museum (www.osfn.org/ricm).} I don't know why you couldn't get through by e-mail, other than the fact that "Shrimp", the RCS/RI's faithful Sun server, has its good days and its bad days, and it's anyone's bet what today is. And I don't know whether the phone is still there or not, but unless it's a monthly Open House it's a crap shoot as to whether anyone's on-premises to pick it up. I for one don't subscribe to Classic Comp, so this was kindly forwarded to me by Marc Bileau, who is very active in the RCS/RI's activities. He tells me that even non-subscribers can send to cctalk, so here I am. Please respond to me directly, not to the mailing list. So, just what is this item up for auction? I doubt we're bidding on it in any case, as money is a bit tight all around right now. But if it's good we'd be delighted to receive a donation. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2003 9:52 PM > Subject: thought you might want to respond > > > > I don't know if you read the classic comp mailing list, so I'm sending > this > > anyway. I know Mike doesn't always answer emails in real time :-} > > > > Marc > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 21 > > Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 12:47:07 -0700 (PDT) > > From: "O. Sharp" > > Subject: RCS/RI Still In Existence? > > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > > > > > > Does anybody know if the Retrocomputing Society of Rhode Island > > (http://osfn.org/rcs/) is still around? I've sent a couple of e-mails > > their way, and tried their phone number, but not with any luck. > > > > I saw one of the things on their online "wish-list" up for auction on > > eBay, and thought about having a go at getting it for them, but it'd be > > nice to know if they still needed it first. (Not to mention making sure I > > wasn't bidding _against_ them. ) > > > > -O.- > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > Send cctalk mailing list submissions to > > cctalk@classiccmp.org > > > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > > http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctalk > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > > cctalk-request@classiccmp.org > > > > You can reach the person managing the list at > > cctalk-owner@classiccmp.org > > > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > > than "Re: Contents of cctalk digest..." > > > > > > > > > From ken at fraserhouse.com Tue Oct 7 23:39:19 2003 From: ken at fraserhouse.com (Ken Campbell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:23 2005 Subject: Looking for Overland OD3201 Tape unit Message-ID: <2D88F6DF72AAB51F74D00660@ip115-170.ott.istop.com> Trying to find an Overland Data, Inc. OD3201 (or similar model) 9-track reel-to-reel unit. It is a reasonably thin, grey unit that stands vertically and has a plexiglas window built in the door. Please reply directly to ken@fraserhouse.com including condition and price. Thanks, Ken Campbell From ken at fraserhouse.com Tue Oct 7 23:39:25 2003 From: ken at fraserhouse.com (Ken Campbell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:23 2005 Subject: Looking for Overland OD3201 Tape unit Message-ID: <2D88F6E572AA9C0E837F0661@ip115-170.ott.istop.com> Trying to find an Overland Data, Inc. OD3201 (or similar) 9-track reel-to-reel unit. It is a reasonably thin, grey unit that stands vertically and has a plexiglas window built in the door. Please reply directly to ken@fraserhouse.com including condition and price. Thanks, Ken Campbell From rcabunac at wi.rr.com Wed Oct 8 08:46:50 2003 From: rcabunac at wi.rr.com (Randy Cabunac) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:23 2005 Subject: 386 Mother Board Message-ID: <001d01c38da2$a033e600$34112f92@pcrcwur863d> Chris, Do you still have this motherboard? AMD 386 SX-40, AMI Bios, "Cyclone" chipset?, 6- 16 bit ISA slots, 4- 30 pin SIMM slots. This board is smaller than normal boards. It measures 8.5 x 6.75 inches. Let me know. Also check the side of of of the ISA slots to see if it has a sticker with this number. PTA-3B067196 Thanks, Randy From electro_vulture at yahoo.com Wed Oct 8 08:52:16 2003 From: electro_vulture at yahoo.com (Corey McKay) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:23 2005 Subject: Compaq Portables Message-ID: <20031008135216.48395.qmail@web14908.mail.yahoo.com> Are you still giving those away? I'm in Florida. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com From mwb at ovay.com Wed Oct 8 12:27:50 2003 From: mwb at ovay.com (mwb@ovay.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:23 2005 Subject: Retro Computing Society of RI Message-ID: <1065634070.3f8449167cf58@ovay.com> I'm fowarding this from Geoffrey Rochat of the RCS/RI, confirming that they do, in fact, still exist. Oh yes, the RetroComputing Society of Rhode Island is still very much in business (www.osfn.org/rcs). {As is the Rhode Island Computer Museum (www.osfn.org/ricm).} I don't know why you couldn't get through by e-mail, other than the fact that "Shrimp", the RCS/RI's faithful Sun server, has its good days and its bad days, and it's anyone's bet what today is. And I don't know whether the phone is still there or not, but unless it's a monthly Open House it's a crap shoot as to whether anyone's on-premises to pick it up. I for one don't subscribe to Classic Comp, having dropped it after having watched a particularly ferocious case of flaming break out, so this was kindly forwarded to me by Marc Bileau, who is very active in the RCS/RI's activities. So, just what is this item up for auction? I doubt we're bidding on it in any case, as money is a bit tight all around right now. But if it's good we'd be delighted to receive a donation. > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 21 > Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 12:47:07 -0700 (PDT) > From: "O. Sharp" > Subject: RCS/RI Still In Existence? > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Message-ID: > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > > > Does anybody know if the Retrocomputing Society of Rhode Island > (http://osfn.org/rcs/) is still around? I've sent a couple of e-mails > their way, and tried their phone number, but not with any luck. > > I saw one of the things on their online "wish-list" up for auction on > eBay, and thought about having a go at getting it for them, but it'd be > nice to know if they still needed it first. (Not to mention making sure I > wasn't bidding _against_ them. ) > > -O.- > > > ------------------------------ > > > From gambettaj2 at UofS.edu Wed Oct 8 21:25:50 2003 From: gambettaj2 at UofS.edu (Jamie Gambetta) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:23 2005 Subject: ibm pc at technical reference Message-ID: <1baa4e1b9ccc.1b9ccc1baa4e@asteroid.scranton.edu> Hello, I read a post you wrote on February 23rd, about the IBM pc/at technical reference, and was wondering if you still had your copy of it. When I called, according to IBM, the manual doesn't exist. Is there any way I can purchase a copy of it from you? If so, please contact me asap, as I am going crazy trying to find a copy of this book. If not, thank you anyway. Thank you for your help and time, Jay From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Thu Oct 9 00:48:14 2003 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:23 2005 Subject: Update: VAXen available. Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.2.20031008224534.02e43af8@66.125.189.29> I talked with the folks at BDI and these lots aren't going to be part of this week's auction after all (they had a lot of stuff queued up) they assure me that next week (closing on 19th of October) the lots will be available. Next week I will follow up with the exact lot numbers for those of you who were discouraged by the extremely difficult to navigate mechanics of their site. --Chuck --------------------- Previous Email ... A number of VAXen are available this week from www.auctionbdi.com. I gave them all of my "spares machines" which I cannot store and no one in the Bay Area wanted. The good news is that BDI will ship them to you pretty much anywhere in the country and the minimum bid is $25. The lot to look for has 3 MV3400's (in BA213 cases), one VAX 4000/300 (in a BA440 case) and one MicroVAX II in a pedastal BA23 case. I don't recall how complete they are, I do thing the 4000/300 is complete except for some DSSI plugs which I needed to bring my 3800 on line. Two of the 3400's have the front "door" (one says MicroVAX 3400, one says VAXServer 3400). If you've got a 3400 or 4000/300 there are plenty of parts to "enhance" your system. I believe the 4000/300 has 192MB of memory but can't swear to it) There is also a MicroVAX 3600 in a H9644 rack. This one I've never looked at in depth other than to note that it has a 4 SCSI drives and a tape but a gap where the SCSI controller had been. Given that it couldn't talk to the disks I pretty much ignored it. Finally there are some PC parts with a nice 17" NEC 5fg monitor (including the special NEC VGA cable). The monitor is nice but not an "Energy Saver" (it stays on as long as power is applied, no standby mode) Probably not of interest to this crowd but I thought I would mention it. --Chuck From wh.sudbrink at verizon.net Thu Oct 9 08:46:25 2003 From: wh.sudbrink at verizon.net (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:23 2005 Subject: cctalk Digest, Vol 2, Issue 13 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >> > Ok , you leave her there. I'll carry her to the bedroom. :) >> >> Bedroom? Wheres your sense of adventure? ;) > >"A Real Retroist(tm) does it... on top of a VAX 11/7x0 !" .. I've always wondered if anyone has "done it" on the couch/bench around the classic column styled Cray. From cb at mythtech.net Thu Oct 9 08:47:17 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:23 2005 Subject: Mac SE/30 revived! woot! Message-ID: >> I may have an old SE/30 ethernet card... > > >Also, I believe that I'll need some sort of riser? The cut-out on the >case is 2 inches above where the motherboard is... No, the SE/30 Ethernet card is a two part card. One part plugs into the mobo's PDS slot, then there is a ribbon cable that connects it to the 2nd part which screws into the slot casing for external access. So no riser card as the ribbon cable spans the distance. -chris From chejmw at acsu.buffalo.edu Thu Oct 9 09:07:51 2003 From: chejmw at acsu.buffalo.edu (James M. Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:23 2005 Subject: ASR33 Teletype interfacing References: <200310070151.h971pGN12743@user-119apiu.biz.mindspring.com> Message-ID: <00a201c38e6e$ba39c200$317ecd80@chem.buffalo.edu> Hello, as for the "Line or Local" issue, you stated that the local side worked fine. As in when you type on the keys it prints what you type. A rather simple test is to take a "fresh" 9 volt battery, find the two "RX lines and connect them to the battery, with the TTY in line mode the basket should quiet, if it does, then connect the keyboard leads between one side of the battery and the "RX" line and try typing again. If that works then your interface is lacking in the ability to provide the 20/60 MA required by the TTY. Jim WB2FCN ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Gesswein" To: Sent: Monday, October 06, 2003 9:51 PM Subject: Re: ASR33 Teletype interfacing > From: Ian Primus > >One problem is that I don't know > >what the Teletype is _supposed_ to do. I have never seen one > >operational > > > Did you see my teletype page? It has movies of an operating teletype > http://www.pdp8.net/asr33/asr33.shtml Not too different than operation > in local mode. > > >I have been attempting to get my ASR33 teletype connected to something > >and communicating, but so far I have not been successful. I have built > >the interface here : > >http://www.daedalus.co.nz/~don/computing/20mahack.html > > > It looks pretty marginal, a lot of serial ports aren't going to have the > drive. I made a converter with optoisolators & rs-232 chips etc > which is a lot more complex than needed and also was a little strange since I > made it before I got that degree. If nobody has pointed you to a better one > I can scan my schematic, >15 years ago radio shack had the parts. > > David Gesswein > http://www.pdp8.net/ -- Run an old computer with blinkenlights > Have any PDP-8 stuff you're willing to part with? > > From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Thu Oct 9 09:19:41 2003 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:23 2005 Subject: GE 73 bulbs for RL02 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200310090719410983.092C2CB0@192.168.42.129> Try www.bulbman.com. They have just about everything. I once found a really exotic neon lamp for a 1950's VTVM from them at a pretty reasonable price. Good hunting. *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 06-Oct-03 at 15:08 John A. Dundas III wrote: >Can anyone recommend a good source for the GE 73 bulbs used in the front >panel switches of the RL02? > >A web search turned up Atlanta Light Bulbs. They claim to have them for >$0.99/ea, minimum quantity 10. However when you try to check out, the >minimum $ order is ~$30. > >I don't mind buying 10, but 30 is too many and I'm not really short on >other bulbs at this time. Any suggestions? > >Thanks, > >John -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com ARS KC7GR (Formerly WD6EOS) since 12-77 -- kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com "Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati" (Red Green, aka Steve Smith) From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Thu Oct 9 09:41:16 2003 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:23 2005 Subject: Looking for Overland OD3201 Tape unit In-Reply-To: <2D88837B72AAE58A2A9B064B@ip115-170.ott.istop.com> References: <2D88837B72AAE58A2A9B064B@ip115-170.ott.istop.com> Message-ID: <200310090741160237.093FEC7A@192.168.42.129> Posting the same note every five minutes to a semi-private mailing list is going to serve no other purpose than to get people ticked off at you (if they're not already, considering your last three posts). Please stop. We got the message the first time. If no one has replied to you, it means that no one has what you're looking for. *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 07-Oct-03 at 16:26 Ken Campbell wrote: >Trying to find an Overland Data, Inc. OD3201 (or similar model) >9-track reel-to-reel unit. It is a reasonably thin, >grey unit that stands vertically and has a plexiglas >window built in the door. > >Please reply directly to ken@fraserhouse.com >including condition and price. > >Thanks, > >Ken Campbell -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com ARS KC7GR (Formerly WD6EOS) since 12-77 -- kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com "Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati" (Red Green, aka Steve Smith) From nico at farumdata.dk Thu Oct 9 10:05:12 2003 From: nico at farumdata.dk (Nico de Jong) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:23 2005 Subject: Looking for Overland OD3201 Tape unit References: <2D88837B72AAE58A2A9B064B@ip115-170.ott.istop.com> Message-ID: <000d01c38e76$bdc38b60$2101a8c0@farumdata.dk> How many do you need ? I've seen the same message 4 times within 10 minutes Nico ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken Campbell" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2003 10:26 PM Subject: Looking for Overland OD3201 Tape unit > > Trying to find an Overland Data, Inc. OD3201 (or similar model) > 9-track reel-to-reel unit. It is a reasonably thin, > grey unit that stands vertically and has a plexiglas > window built in the door. > > Please reply directly to ken@fraserhouse.com > including condition and price. > > Thanks, > > Ken Campbell > > > From vcf at siconic.com Thu Oct 9 10:37:18 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:23 2005 Subject: cctalk Digest, Vol 2, Issue 13 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 9 Oct 2003, Tothwolf wrote: > On Wed, 8 Oct 2003, ben franchuk wrote: > > Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > > On Wed, 8 Oct 2003, John Allain wrote: > > > > > > > 140 pounds is the heaviest thing I've carried (metal). It's not > > > > clear if a maleable thing would be easier to carry, with its > > > > movable center of gravity. I need a test subject, preferrably > > > > female. > > > > > > It's really easy when you're carrying her to the bedroom. > > > > > > OH MY GAWD! WHAT AM I SAYING? > > > > Ok , you leave her there. I'll carry her to the bedroom. :) > > Bedroom? Wheres your sense of adventure? ;) You know, come to think of it, I haven't tried my VAX 8600 yet. Hmmmm..... -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Thu Oct 9 10:38:03 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:23 2005 Subject: cctalk Digest, Vol 2, Issue 13 In-Reply-To: <000c01c38e32$68a8ae60$2101a8c0@farumdata.dk> Message-ID: On Thu, 9 Oct 2003, Nico de Jong wrote: > From: "Fred N. van Kempen" > > > Bedroom? Wheres your sense of adventure? ;) > > > > "A Real Retroist(tm) does it... on top of a VAX 11/7x0 !" .. > > > Yes, but "real programmers" like me :-) do IT bit by bit My hard disk is 8 terrabytes baby! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From korpela at ssl.berkeley.edu Thu Oct 9 10:36:28 2003 From: korpela at ssl.berkeley.edu (Eric J. Korpela) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:23 2005 Subject: Help! need 400k/800k Mac os 6 or 7 diskettes! In-Reply-To: from John Rollins at "Oct 6, 2003 12:10:09 pm" Message-ID: <200310091536.h99FaS104331@galileo.ssl.berkeley.edu> > >Apple stopped having the drives read and write 400 and 800 k disks a > >while ago. > > Actually the System does that... I don't remember when though. I > think it might have been System 8 that stopped reading 400k, I > remember because I was real mad about not being able to use my PM6500 > to do disks for my 128k, and then I ended up with an iMac and the > iDock doesn't work under X(until you pull the cable going to the ADB > and serial that is) but the USB floppy only handles 1.4MB anyway! Do older external 400k drives work with System 8? I find it hard to swing a dead cat without hitting a pile of external Mac (or Apple II) disk drives. Eric From waltje at pdp11.nl Thu Oct 9 10:45:44 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:23 2005 Subject: Accidental re-posts (fwd) Message-ID: Before poor Ken's kicked outta here, he already apologized: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2003 10:58:44 -0400 From: Ken Campbell To: Bruce Lane , Fred N. van Kempen Cc: cctech@classiccmp.org Subject: Accidental re-posts Sorry guys, thats was a muck up with my account. I was not intentionally trying to flood the mailing list with posts. I had only intended one post to show up. I was getting bounce messages from mailman, and everytime I went to the URL to cancel the message. For whatever reason, they were never cancelled. I retried several times over a couple days, and it appears that my list account was only activated today. Again, major apologies all around, but the 7 or 8 reposts now were _NOT_ intentional... Ken From kth at srv.net Thu Oct 9 11:52:39 2003 From: kth at srv.net (Kevin Handy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:23 2005 Subject: LK201 key stuck In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3F859257.7040008@srv.net> Tony Duell wrote: >We had a totally wrecked one at a place I was working, so we (the system >manager and I) took it apart one night. Cut off the heat stakes and >pulled the layers apart. Putting it back together proved impossible, >there simply wasn't enough plastic left to re-stake it. I would not >recomend taking one apart that you plan to re-use. > > You can sometimes build up the plastic using a "spin welding" technique. Take a chunk of plastic (a part tree from a plastic model usually works well), and put it into a drill chuck. With the drill running moderately fast (goggles are definitely recommended), press it against the spot you want to weld it. Friction will melt the two together. Success depends on how well the two plastics will bond together. Some plastics will not bond well together. From cb at mythtech.net Thu Oct 9 11:29:58 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:23 2005 Subject: 386 Mother Board Message-ID: >Do you still have this motherboard? > AMD 386 SX-40, AMI Bios, "Cyclone" chipset?, 6- 16 bit ISA slots, 4- 30 Nope, long since gone. -chris From pat at purdueriots.com Thu Oct 9 11:31:50 2003 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:23 2005 Subject: Apple IIe KB IC (AY-3600) datasheet requested. Message-ID: <200310091131.50728.pat@purdueriots.com> Hi all, I'm looking for a datasheet for the AY-3600 that is used as a keyboard matrix encoder in Apple IIe's. I haven't had much luck finding it from my other sources yet. Thanks! Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ From ronbain at ix.netcom.com Thu Oct 9 11:33:27 2003 From: ronbain at ix.netcom.com (ronbain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:23 2005 Subject: HOW TO UNSUBSCRIBE In-Reply-To: <20031008135216.48395.qmail@web14908.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <008201c38e83$11c97060$2af9fea9@D4VMS431> What steps can I take to unsubscribe? -----Original Message----- From: cctech-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Corey McKay Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2003 6:52 AM To: cctech@classiccmp.org Subject: Compaq Portables Are you still giving those away? I'm in Florida. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com From jpl15 at panix.com Thu Oct 9 11:37:51 2003 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:23 2005 Subject: Scrapping Tape Drive Message-ID: I have a brand-new, fully functional Overland Data OD3201 tape drive that I'm going to gut for a few parts and then junk the carcass. Nobody wants these damn things, anyway.... Cheers John From pds3 at ix.netcom.com Thu Oct 9 10:28:17 2003 From: pds3 at ix.netcom.com (Shannon Hoskins) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:23 2005 Subject: VCF - Stuff for Sale References: Message-ID: <000e01c38e79$f7948a80$b82fa5d1@shannon> I would be interested in the DEC M series modules. Could you give me a few of the part numbers? Sincerely, Shannon Hoskins. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vintage Computer Festival" To: "Marvin Johnston" Cc: "ClassicCmp" Sent: Monday, October 06, 2003 6:11 PM Subject: Re: VCF - Stuff for Sale > On Mon, 6 Oct 2003, Marvin Johnston wrote: > > > Rather than post the stuff here, a link to the things I'll be selling at > > VCF is at: > > > > http://www.rain.org/~marvin/vcf.txt > > > > As the week goes by, I'll be adding to the list and updating it as > > necessary. > > Marvin, > > Please also post your list to the VCF BBS. There are a lot of VCF > attendees who don't read the list. In fact, a majority of attendees are > not CC list members. > > http://www.vintage.org/2003/main/bbs.php > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage mputers ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Thu Oct 9 12:14:09 2003 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:23 2005 Subject: cctalk Digest, Vol 2, Issue 13 References: Message-ID: <3F859761.4030409@jetnet.ab.ca> Bill Sudbrink wrote: >>>>Ok , you leave her there. I'll carry her to the bedroom. :) >>> >>>Bedroom? Wheres your sense of adventure? ;) >> >>"A Real Retroist(tm) does it... on top of a VAX 11/7x0 !" .. > > > I've always wondered if anyone has "done it" on the couch/bench > around the classic column styled Cray. Your free to buy one for the bedroom if you like. I don't think so myself since the hardware was running 24/7 and somebody was always around. I'll tell you what, you keep the vax , I'll take the cute punch card girls in the mini-skirts. PS ... you do have a bedroom with a bed, or do you just sleep under the big iron? Also I have been spending my meager income on hi-fi big iron, a vintage vacuum tube amp at the moment, so I don't expect to be getting a vintage computer in my life. I'd like to build a vintage style machine but I still need to design the sucker. Modern machines may be 'user friendly' but not friendly to the users like the small 12 and 16 bit machines of days gone by. Ben. From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Thu Oct 9 12:35:51 2003 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:23 2005 Subject: ibm pc at technical reference In-Reply-To: <1baa4e1b9ccc.1b9ccc1baa4e@asteroid.scranton.edu> References: <1baa4e1b9ccc.1b9ccc1baa4e@asteroid.scranton.edu> Message-ID: <200310091035510386.09DFC2FE@192.168.42.129> My TechRef is buried somewhere at the moment, but I found this link... http://www.techfest.com/hardware/bus/isa.htm ...That contains much of the same info. Hope it helps... *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 08-Oct-03 at 22:25 Jamie Gambetta wrote: >Hello, > >I read a post you wrote on February 23rd, about the IBM pc/at technical >reference, and was wondering if you still had your copy of it. When I >called, according to IBM, the manual doesn't exist. Is there any way I can >purchase a copy of it from you? If so, please contact me asap, as I am >going crazy trying to find a copy of this book. If not, thank you anyway. > >Thank you for your help and time, > >Jay -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com ARS KC7GR (Formerly WD6EOS) since 12-77 -- kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com "Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati" (Red Green, aka Steve Smith) From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Oct 9 13:21:44 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:23 2005 Subject: Googlers In-Reply-To: <200310090719410983.092C2CB0@192.168.42.129> References: <200310090719410983.092C2CB0@192.168.42.129> Message-ID: <20031009111425.L29966@newshell.lmi.net> There were another handful today of the "do you still have ..." posts. People who end up in the archives during a search for something do not seem to be aware that they are posting to a list. And some seem to be unaware that the archive messages are not current. I do NOT believe that they are spammers trolling for addresses, nor any other nefarious purpose. They seem to be just hapless folk without a clue. Sometimes, they legitimately need help, and somebody here might be able to. Sometimes, they even might have something great to part with. Therefore, we should NOT block those posts. But would it be feasable to have the mailing list software automatically put a "non-member submission" addition in their subject line? "[NMS]" If nothing else it would save a little time and confusion when trying to connect what it is about. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Oct 9 13:32:48 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:23 2005 Subject: Looking for Overland OD3201 Tape unit In-Reply-To: <000d01c38e76$bdc38b60$2101a8c0@farumdata.dk> References: <2D88837B72AAE58A2A9B064B@ip115-170.ott.istop.com> <000d01c38e76$bdc38b60$2101a8c0@farumdata.dk> Message-ID: <20031009113106.V29966@newshell.lmi.net> Usually, it wouldn't be worth much. But if there have been half a dozen inquiries for them this morning, then it is obviously very much in demand, and the price should go up to reflect that! On Thu, 9 Oct 2003, Nico de Jong wrote: > How many do you need ? I've seen the same message 4 times within 10 minutes > Nico > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ken Campbell" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2003 10:26 PM > Subject: Looking for Overland OD3201 Tape unit > > > > > > Trying to find an Overland Data, Inc. OD3201 (or similar model) > > 9-track reel-to-reel unit. It is a reasonably thin, > > grey unit that stands vertically and has a plexiglas > > window built in the door. > > > > Please reply directly to ken@fraserhouse.com > > including condition and price. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Ken Campbell From esharpe at uswest.net Thu Oct 9 14:42:27 2003 From: esharpe at uswest.net (Ed Sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:23 2005 Subject: Data General Eclipse Give-Away References: Message-ID: <004401c38e9d$787a5a80$4291a8c0@aoldsl.net> what is this talk of Tucson? I was ready for a road trip! it says in the ad it is in San Carlo CA United States ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vintage Computer Festival" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2003 10:24 AM Subject: Re: Data General Eclipse Give-Away > On Wed, 8 Oct 2003, Patrick Rigney wrote: > > > Someone just posted a Data General Eclipse on the Vintage Computer > > Marketplace, as a give-away. > > > > http://marketplace.vintage.org/view.cfm?ad=220 > > It's apparently an S/20. More info is in the auction ad. If I had the > time I'd get it myself. > > > Also, check out Sellam's auction for the Commodore 64 prototype (serial > > number 6)... > > 19 (not 6 :) > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage mputers ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > > > From kd7bcy at teleport.com Thu Oct 9 13:52:20 2003 From: kd7bcy at teleport.com (John Rollins Jr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:23 2005 Subject: HP9k video and other questions Message-ID: <20914295.1065725540697.JavaMail.root@misspiggy.psp.pas.earthlink.net> Does anyone have a pinout for the video connector on an HP9000/425? Or a list of compatible monitors(doesn't seem to be VGA unless the whole thing is dead)? Lucky me, I went to Wacky Willy's yesterday and found an Apollo keyboiard and mouse and an HP-IL mouse! Another question that is a bit OT... Same WW visit I found a Fujitsu RA12 DSL modem. OK, it seems that it's for Verizon frame relays only, and I don't have a PS for it anyway. But trying to reverse engineer the thing I found a PS port pin labeled "PRW_GOOD". What does that mean? the rest of the unit wants +/-15v, 5v and 3.3v on various pins but it's probably going into a parts box, I'm just curious what it might be and what sort of signal it would be. -JR From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Thu Oct 9 13:25:21 2003 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:24 2005 Subject: cctalk Digest, Vol 2, Issue 13 In-Reply-To: ; from waltje@pdp11.nl on Thu, Oct 09, 2003 at 08:29:18 %z References: Message-ID: <20031009182521.GW350776@MrPomeroy2> On 2003.10.09 08:29 Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > "A Real Retroist(tm) does it... on top of a VAX 11/7x0 !" .. "A Real Retroist(tm) does it... _with_ a VAX 11/7x0 !" .. I can supply p0rn pix of someone (not me!) f... a MicroVAX. ;-) I think some of these pix are online on unixsex.org too. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From eric at brouhaha.com Thu Oct 9 14:43:06 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:24 2005 Subject: Help! need 400k/800k Mac os 6 or 7 diskettes! In-Reply-To: <200310091536.h99FaS104331@galileo.ssl.berkeley.edu> References: from John Rollins at "Oct6, 2003 12:10:09 pm" <200310091536.h99FaS104331@galileo.ssl.berkeley.edu> Message-ID: <32904.64.169.63.74.1065728586.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> "Eric J. Korpela" > Do older external 400k drives work with System 8? I find it hard to > swing a dead cat without hitting a pile of external Mac (or Apple II) > disk drives. Apple 400K external drives will not work with any Macs that have a newer processor than a 68000. They work on the original (128K) Mac, the 512K and 512Ke, the Plus, SE, and maybe the Classic. The drive requires a PWM motor control signal that later Macs do not provide. The 800K and Superdrive (FDHD) do not need this signal. Eric From cb at mythtech.net Thu Oct 9 14:46:04 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:24 2005 Subject: Help! need 400k/800k Mac os 6 or 7 diskettes! Message-ID: >Do older external 400k drives work with System 8? I doubt it. I'm pretty sure Apple removed support for 400K disks at the OS level starting with 8. Although I could be wrong. > I find it hard to >swing a dead cat without hitting a pile of external Mac (or Apple II) >disk drives. Are you sure they are 400k drives? The platinum colored ones that were pleantiful and worked with the mac and the IIgs are 800k drives. If you really find an old external beige 400k drive for the Mac, I'd love to have it. I have two that are dead and none that work. I'd like one for one of my 128 Macs. -chris From ohh at drizzle.com Thu Oct 9 15:12:04 2003 From: ohh at drizzle.com (O. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:24 2005 Subject: Retro Computing Society of RI In-Reply-To: <1065634070.3f8449167cf58@ovay.com> Message-ID: > I'm fowarding this from Geoffrey Rochat of the RCS/RI, confirming that they do, > in fact, still exist. > > Oh yes, the RetroComputing Society of Rhode Island is still very much in > business (www.osfn.org/rcs). {As is the Rhode Island Computer Museum > (www.osfn.org/ricm).} [....snipppp] Thanks very much! I've replied via e-mail, but this time to the e-mail addresses in your CC: rather than the RCS address I was having all the difficulties with. :) -O.- From esharpe at uswest.net Thu Oct 9 16:16:48 2003 From: esharpe at uswest.net (Ed Sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:24 2005 Subject: *****Ty Data word processor tapes need data read from.....HELP! Message-ID: <005e01c38eaa$a6e4c1a0$4291a8c0@aoldsl.net> Ty Data word processor tapes need data read from.....HELP! attempting to help someone out on this issue. they have the ty data tapes but alas no machine... google does noting much on this issue! Does anyone have a ty data machine or know he char set and format tapes are recorded in? thanks ed sharpe, archivist for smecc From esharpe at uswest.net Thu Oct 9 16:16:48 2003 From: esharpe at uswest.net (Ed Sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:24 2005 Subject: *****Ty Data word processor tapes need data read from.....HELP! Message-ID: <005e01c38eaa$a6e4c1a0$4291a8c0@aoldsl.net> Ty Data word processor tapes need data read from.....HELP! attempting to help someone out on this issue. they have the ty data tapes but alas no machine... google does noting much on this issue! Does anyone have a ty data machine or know he char set and format tapes are recorded in? thanks ed sharpe, archivist for smecc From marvin at rain.org Thu Oct 9 15:55:23 2003 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:24 2005 Subject: VCF - Stuff for Sale References: <000e01c38e79$f7948a80$b82fa5d1@shannon> Message-ID: <3F85CB3B.109BE838@rain.org> Hi Shannon, Below is a list I made up some time ago; it is not current. Some of the modules have sold, and I am keeping some. But it will give you an idea of what is there. There are also some other DEC Quad and Hex height boards, but I don't recall what they are. Thanks for checking! Marvin Shannon Hoskins wrote: > > I would be interested in the DEC M series modules. Could you give me a few > of the part numbers? Qty Number Description 1 - K731 - Source Module 1 - K732 - Slave Regulator 1 - M002 - 15 Loads, PDP-8/L 1 - M050 - 50 mA Indicator and Driver 1 - M100 - Bus Data Interface, Neg, PDP-8 Family 1 - M101 - Bus Data Interface, Pos, PDP-8 Family 1 - M107 - Device Selector, Pos, PDP-8 Family 1 - M108 - Flag Module, Pos, PDP-8 Family 4 - M111 - Inverter, PDP-8/L 3 - M112 - NOR Gate 3 - M121 - AND/NOR Gates 2 - M141 - NAND/OR Gates 4 - M203 - 8 R/S Flip-Flops 3 - M205 - General Purpose D-Type Flip-Flops 4 - M206 - Six D-Type Flip-Flops 1 - M207 - Six Single Input J-K Flip-Flops 1 - M233 - Disk Shift Reg 4 - M310 - Delay Line, 50 - 500 ns, PDP-8/L 1 - M404 - 2 MHz Crystal Clock 1 - M452 - Variable Clock, PDP-8/L 3 - M506 - Medium Speed Negative Input Converter, -3V to M-series levels 3 - M602 - Pulse Amplifier 3 - M623 - Bus Driver,Pos, 12 2-input, PDP-8 Family, PDP-8/L 2 - M624 - Bus Driver,Pos, 15 drivers, PDP-8 Family, PDP-8/L 2 - M633 - Negative Bus Driver, Neg, PDP-8 Family 7 - M650 - Negative Output,3 converters from K and M series levels to -3V 1 - M706 - Teletype Receiver, PDP-8/L 1 - M707 - Teletype Transmitter, PDP-8/L 1 - M906 - Cable Terminator, PDP-8/L 1 - W033 - Flat Mylar Cable Connector 1 - W979 - Double Height Protoboard From marvin at rain.org Thu Oct 9 16:01:28 2003 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:24 2005 Subject: VCF Stuff for Sale References: <1baa4e1b9ccc.1b9ccc1baa4e@asteroid.scranton.edu> <200310091035510386.09DFC2FE@192.168.42.129> Message-ID: <3F85CCA8.3372904D@rain.org> I've updated the list of "stuff" I'll be bringing a number of times. The URL is at: http://www.rain.org/~marvin/vcf.txt I'll be out of email contact starting tonight and won't be available until VCF on Saturday. If anyone wants anything from the list, let me know before 5:00pm PDT. Thanks. From zmerch at 30below.com Thu Oct 9 16:02:46 2003 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:24 2005 Subject: HOW TO UNSUBSCRIBE In-Reply-To: <008201c38e83$11c97060$2af9fea9@D4VMS431> References: <20031008135216.48395.qmail@web14908.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20031009170218.01ddded0@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that ronbain may have mentioned these words: >What steps can I take to unsubscribe? Look at the message headers: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , HTH, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers zmerch@30below.com What do you do when Life gives you lemons, and you don't *like* lemonade????????????? From patrick at evocative.com Thu Oct 9 16:53:56 2003 From: patrick at evocative.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:24 2005 Subject: Data General Eclipse Give-Away In-Reply-To: <004401c38e9d$787a5a80$4291a8c0@aoldsl.net> Message-ID: "my mother would like it out of her garage in Tucson, Arizona" Ed, I think the seller is in San Carlos, but the unit is in Tucson. --Patrick > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Ed Sharpe > Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2003 12:42 PM > To: General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only > Subject: Re: Data General Eclipse Give-Away > > > what is this talk of Tucson? I was ready for a road trip! > > it says in the ad it is in San Carlo CA United States > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Vintage Computer Festival" > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2003 10:24 AM > Subject: Re: Data General Eclipse Give-Away > > > > On Wed, 8 Oct 2003, Patrick Rigney wrote: > > > > > Someone just posted a Data General Eclipse on the Vintage Computer > > > Marketplace, as a give-away. > > > > > > http://marketplace.vintage.org/view.cfm?ad=220 > > > > It's apparently an S/20. More info is in the auction ad. If I had the > > time I'd get it myself. > > > > > Also, check out Sellam's auction for the Commodore 64 > prototype (serial > > > number 6)... > > > > 19 (not 6 :) > > > > -- > > > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer > Festival > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage > mputers ] > > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at > http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > > > > > > > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Oct 9 16:40:17 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:24 2005 Subject: anyone notice this gorgeous piece? In-Reply-To: <002b01c38da1$4c845d60$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> from "John Allain" at Oct 8, 3 09:37:20 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 159 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20031009/8547e025/attachment.ksh From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Thu Oct 9 16:43:44 2003 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:24 2005 Subject: HP9k video and other questions In-Reply-To: <20914295.1065725540697.JavaMail.root@misspiggy.psp.pas.earthlink.net>; from kd7bcy@teleport.com on Thu, Oct 09, 2003 at 20:52:20 %z References: <20914295.1065725540697.JavaMail.root@misspiggy.psp.pas.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <20031009214344.GK350776@MrPomeroy2> On 2003.10.09 20:52 John Rollins Jr wrote: > Does anyone have a pinout for the video connector on an HP9000/425? Depends on the video card. There are color cards with three BNC connectors, pinout is obvious. There are mono / gray scale cards with one BNC conector. Connect this to green of a color monitor and you should get a picture. There are other mono / gray scale cards with a SubD 9 connector. I thik I have SubD 9 to cable for this cards. I can measure out the pinout if you have one of these. The monitor must support sync on green. Timing ist most likely 1280 x 1024 @ 60 Hz or 1024 x 786 @ 60 Hz. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Oct 9 16:56:58 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:24 2005 Subject: Acorn Econet In-Reply-To: <10310090833.ZM23014@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> from "Pete Turnbull" at Oct 9, 3 08:33:43 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2630 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20031009/0908a12a/attachment.ksh From jwstephens at msm.umr.edu Thu Oct 9 18:34:31 2003 From: jwstephens at msm.umr.edu (jim) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:24 2005 Subject: Googlers References: <200310090719410983.092C2CB0@192.168.42.129> <20031009111425.L29966@newshell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <3F85F087.202D86AB@msm.umr.edu> are the archive sites set to "no robots" so that they are not indexed on the search engines? If not, then anyone typing in PDP 11 on google will see all the PDP 11 posts in the archive. Unless Jay has converted to an ASP or CGI script that won't serve up the contents to robots. Jim Fred Cisin wrote: > > > I do NOT believe that they are spammers trolling for addresses, nor any > other nefarious purpose. They seem to be just hapless folk without a > clue. > From kd7bcy at teleport.com Thu Oct 9 18:41:12 2003 From: kd7bcy at teleport.com (John Rollins Jr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:24 2005 Subject: HP9k video and other questions Message-ID: <28987915.1065742873493.JavaMail.root@bigbird.psp.pas.earthlink.net> >Depends on the video card. This is the built-in video... DE-15 on the back of the case. Would I be able to use one of my Apollo monitors with an Apollo video card installed in an ISA slot? -JR From teoz at neo.rr.com Thu Oct 9 19:13:17 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:24 2005 Subject: Help! need 400k/800k Mac os 6 or 7 diskettes! References: Message-ID: <009f01c38ec3$53975760$3d7ca418@neo.rr.com> So whats the status of this guys mac SE? I went and dug out my original system 7 disks and found I have the following: System 7 (or 7.1) disks on HD floppies (1.44): Install 1 Install 2 Fonts Tidbits Disk tools Printing System 7 (or 7.1) disks on Double Density floppies (800k): Macintosh Networking Basics System 7 Tuneup Before you install system 7 Install 1 Install 2 Install 3 Printing Fonts Tidbits More Tidbits I know the HD set is complete because I installed it on my IIfx, havnt used the 800k disk set so I am not sure about them. If the person who has the SE needs a copy of these disks (I have a number of 68k macs that can copy these floppies correctly) he can send me blank disks and I will mail them back copied. If the person can use disk images on their own 68k mac I can make images and email them out. I did notice there isnt a disk tools disk listed on the 800k set but I am sure it can be downloaded from apples site, or a 3rd party util can be used (LIDO 7.56). System 6.03, 6.05, 6.08 in 800k images can be found here: http://www.info.apple.com/support/oldersoftwarelist.html If the person needs these images dumped to disk I can do that also if blanks are sent to me ( I am out of 800k floppies since my amiga, atari st, IIgs have sucked them all down in the last month, time to find some more). Hope this helps. TZ From jrkeys at concentric.net Thu Oct 9 19:48:32 2003 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:24 2005 Subject: Altair disk drive and 8800b go for $320 and $1900+ Message-ID: <022801c38ec8$3bb99f90$6009dd40@oemcomputer> Check them out at http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2756553273 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2756553273 From jrkeys at concentric.net Thu Oct 9 19:55:00 2003 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:24 2005 Subject: ASR33 sells for over $600 Message-ID: <022e01c38ec9$231efd30$6009dd40@oemcomputer> With all the talk about interfacing one of these someone just sol a ASR22 for $610 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2756553273 From jrkeys at concentric.net Thu Oct 9 20:01:39 2003 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:24 2005 Subject: Super Elf goes for over $300 Message-ID: <023601c38eca$107c5eb0$6009dd40@oemcomputer> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2756553273 From cb at mythtech.net Thu Oct 9 20:29:39 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:24 2005 Subject: ASR33 sells for over $600 Message-ID: >With all the talk about interfacing one of these someone just sol a ASR22 >for $610 And I just let mine go for $40. Of course, mine wasn't anywhere near as complete or in as good of condition. And although it has been reported to be fully working, it was totally untested at the time of sale. >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2756553273 Um... this doesn't point to an ASR33... it goes to an 8" drive package. A quick search on ebay shows as the ASR 33. -chris From r_a_feldman at hotmail.com Thu Oct 9 20:37:50 2003 From: r_a_feldman at hotmail.com (Robert Feldman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:24 2005 Subject: Muktiple copies of list digest Message-ID: I just signed up for the digest version of the list last week, and I've started to get multiple (2 or even 3) copies of some of the digests. Anybody else having this problem? Bob _________________________________________________________________ Frustrated with dial-up? Get high-speed for as low as $29.95/month (depending on the local service providers in your area). https://broadband.msn.com From vcf at siconic.com Thu Oct 9 20:57:49 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:24 2005 Subject: Need HP 1650A logic analyzer user's manual Message-ID: I desperately need a copy (or original if you have one to sell/trade) of the HP 1650A logic analyzer user's manual. Can anyone help? Thanks! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Thu Oct 9 21:24:54 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:24 2005 Subject: Compaq Portables In-Reply-To: <20031008135216.48395.qmail@web14908.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 8 Oct 2003, Corey McKay wrote: > Are you still giving those away? I'm in Florida. > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search > http://shopping.yahoo.com I try to ignore them but the stupidity of this is overwhelming. It's time to add some sort of filter. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From jpl15 at panix.com Thu Oct 9 21:24:28 2003 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:24 2005 Subject: Posting propagation delays Message-ID: I am moderately curious why it is taking one to five (or more) hours for posts to show up... manual moderation perhaps? If so, I don't envy Jay for the task... But other than that... more than one person I know is experiencing these lengthy delays between 'send' and 'recieved'.. See Y'all at VCF (except Tony Duell, of course)... Cheers John From vcf at siconic.com Thu Oct 9 21:27:07 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:24 2005 Subject: Accidental re-posts (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 9 Oct 2003, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > Before poor Ken's kicked outta here, he already apologized: Anyone could've looked at the header's and seen that it was a mistake. This happens occasionally so no need to get yer panties all up in a bunch. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Thu Oct 9 21:27:57 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:24 2005 Subject: HOW TO UNSUBSCRIBE In-Reply-To: <008201c38e83$11c97060$2af9fea9@D4VMS431> Message-ID: On Thu, 9 Oct 2003, ronbain wrote: > What steps can I take to unsubscribe? Four steps: 1. R 2. T 3. F 4. M -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Thu Oct 9 21:29:41 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:24 2005 Subject: Googlers In-Reply-To: <20031009111425.L29966@newshell.lmi.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 9 Oct 2003, Fred Cisin wrote: > But would it be feasable to have the mailing list software automatically > put a "non-member submission" addition in their subject line? > "[NMS]" How about bouncing their message back with a note indicating that they are responding to a crusty old message that isn't even relevant anymore and that they should pay more attention next time. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Thu Oct 9 21:32:18 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:24 2005 Subject: Data General Eclipse Give-Away In-Reply-To: <004401c38e9d$787a5a80$4291a8c0@aoldsl.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 9 Oct 2003, Ed Sharpe wrote: > what is this talk of Tucson? I was ready for a road trip! > > it says in the ad it is in San Carlo CA United States I guess the concept of "reading" has fallen out of vogue these days. "I really don't know much about this behemoth, except that it is very heavy, and my mother would like it out of her garage in Tucson, Arizona." ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Can anyone tell I'm irritable today? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Thu Oct 9 21:36:09 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:24 2005 Subject: Googlers In-Reply-To: <3F85F087.202D86AB@msm.umr.edu> Message-ID: On Thu, 9 Oct 2003, jim wrote: > are the archive sites set to "no robots" so that they are not indexed on > the search engines? Actually, having the archives come up on Google is the only way to access them at this point, and I don't want that to be taken away. And either you are messing with the reply-to headers or the reply-to headers are f**cked. When I want to reply to a message the default should be to the list. I'm sick of fighting with my damn e-mailer. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Thu Oct 9 21:37:04 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:24 2005 Subject: Altair disk drive and 8800b go for $320 and $1900+ In-Reply-To: <022801c38ec8$3bb99f90$6009dd40@oemcomputer> Message-ID: On Thu, 9 Oct 2003, Keys wrote: > Check them out at > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2756553273 > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2756553273 And...? Why is this news? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Thu Oct 9 21:37:59 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:24 2005 Subject: Super Elf goes for over $300 In-Reply-To: <023601c38eca$107c5eb0$6009dd40@oemcomputer> Message-ID: On Thu, 9 Oct 2003, Keys wrote: > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2756553273 Um, John? I don't see how all these postings are relevant. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From ohh at drizzle.com Thu Oct 9 21:37:04 2003 From: ohh at drizzle.com (O. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:24 2005 Subject: ASR33 sells for over $600 In-Reply-To: <022e01c38ec9$231efd30$6009dd40@oemcomputer> Message-ID: > With all the talk about interfacing one of these someone just sol a ASR22 > for $610 > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2756553273 I thought about bidding on it early on - I've been wanting to replace the ASR-33 I used to have, which sadly died - but the seller refused to say how much the shipping was in advance... kind of a danger sign, I felt, especially when they pointedly refused to discuss it in e-mails. Probably just as well; I certainly wasn't willing to bid it up _that_ high. :/ A hundred, a hundred and fifty, if it were in good order and reasonable shipping? Okay. Six hundred and some shipping amount the seller refuses to divulge? Not bloody likely. :) :) -O.- From tothwolf at concentric.net Thu Oct 9 22:16:55 2003 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:24 2005 Subject: Googlers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 9 Oct 2003, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Thu, 9 Oct 2003, Fred Cisin wrote: > > > But would it be feasable to have the mailing list software > > automatically put a "non-member submission" addition in their subject > > line? "[NMS]" Or...maybe replacing the From: email address in the archive emails with the list email address hasn't worked as well as folks thought it might? > How about bouncing their message back with a note indicating that they > are responding to a crusty old message that isn't even relevant anymore > and that they should pay more attention next time. The XFree86 mailing list auto-sends an email the first time someone posts to the list (even if not a subscriber) to let the sender know that the address they mailed is a mailing list. It seems to work very well. -Toth From tothwolf at concentric.net Thu Oct 9 22:20:43 2003 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:24 2005 Subject: Googlers In-Reply-To: <3F85F087.202D86AB@msm.umr.edu> References: <200310090719410983.092C2CB0@192.168.42.129> <20031009111425.L29966@newshell.lmi.net> <3F85F087.202D86AB@msm.umr.edu> Message-ID: On Thu, 9 Oct 2003, jim wrote: > Fred Cisin wrote: > > > I do NOT believe that they are spammers trolling for addresses, nor > > any other nefarious purpose. They seem to be just hapless folk > > without a clue. > > are the archive sites set to "no robots" so that they are not indexed on > the search engines? > > If not, then anyone typing in PDP 11 on google will see all the PDP 11 > posts in the archive. > > Unless Jay has converted to an ASP or CGI script that won't serve up the > contents to robots. I think that allowing Google and other search engines to crawl the messages is actually a *good* idea. There are a number of mailing lists that I've dealt with that denied search engines, and only had their own search function. Those search functions never did work very well. If not for Google, I'd have not ever found the list. I'm sure I'm not the only one. -Toth From jrkeys at concentric.net Thu Oct 9 22:36:31 2003 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:24 2005 Subject: Super Elf goes for over $300 References: Message-ID: <007901c38edf$b3a2fbc0$4408dd40@oemcomputer> Just letting folks see what some of the items are going for since that questions pops up now and then when someone on the list is thinking about buying or selling an item. Sorry for wasting your time but that is why I try to state in the subject line what the message is about. I will refrain from sending anymore to the list. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vintage Computer Festival" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Cc: "cctech@classiccmp" Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2003 9:37 PM Subject: Re: Super Elf goes for over $300 > On Thu, 9 Oct 2003, Keys wrote: > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2756553273 > > Um, John? > > I don't see how all these postings are relevant. > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage mputers ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > > From vcf at siconic.com Thu Oct 9 23:43:09 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:24 2005 Subject: Super Elf goes for over $300 In-Reply-To: <007901c38edf$b3a2fbc0$4408dd40@oemcomputer> Message-ID: On Thu, 9 Oct 2003, Keys wrote: > Just letting folks see what some of the items are going for since that > questions pops up now and then when someone on the list is thinking about > buying or selling an item. Sorry for wasting your time but that is why I try > to state in the subject line what the message is about. I will refrain from > sending anymore to the list. I don't know. It just seems to me that if anyone actually wanted to see what was happening on eBay they could just type in the URL themselves. The list is just pissing me off tonight. Stop it. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From nico at farumdata.dk Thu Oct 9 23:46:18 2003 From: nico at farumdata.dk (Nico de Jong) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:24 2005 Subject: *****Ty Data word processor tapes need data read from.....HELP! References: <005e01c38eaa$a6e4c1a0$4291a8c0@aoldsl.net> Message-ID: <001901c38ee9$72d52000$2101a8c0@farumdata.dk> What kind of tape is it, physically ? Any special recording modes (I'm thinking along QIC-02 or QIC-80 lines) Nico ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ed Sharpe" To: Cc: Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2003 11:16 PM Subject: *****Ty Data word processor tapes need data read from.....HELP! > Ty Data word processor tapes need data read from.....HELP! > > attempting to help someone out on this issue. they have the ty data > tapes but alas no machine... google does noting much on this issue! > > Does anyone have a ty data machine or know he char set and format tapes > are recorded in? > > thanks ed sharpe, archivist for smecc > > From nico at farumdata.dk Thu Oct 9 23:47:28 2003 From: nico at farumdata.dk (Nico de Jong) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:24 2005 Subject: Looking for Overland OD3201 Tape unit References: <2D88837B72AAE58A2A9B064B@ip115-170.ott.istop.com><000d01c38e76$bdc38b60$2101a8c0@farumdata.dk> <20031009113106.V29966@newshell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <002001c38ee9$9bda3940$2101a8c0@farumdata.dk> Right, but they were all from the same guy, and I've seen some more thing morning. His _enter_ key must be glued to the bottom of the keyboard Nico ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Cisin" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2003 8:32 PM Subject: Re: Looking for Overland OD3201 Tape unit > Usually, it wouldn't be worth much. > But if there have been half a dozen inquiries for them this morning, > then it is obviously very much in demand, and the price should > go up to reflect that! > > > On Thu, 9 Oct 2003, Nico de Jong wrote: > > > How many do you need ? I've seen the same message 4 times within 10 minutes > > Nico > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Ken Campbell" > > To: > > Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2003 10:26 PM > > Subject: Looking for Overland OD3201 Tape unit > > > > > > > > > > Trying to find an Overland Data, Inc. OD3201 (or similar model) > > > 9-track reel-to-reel unit. It is a reasonably thin, > > > grey unit that stands vertically and has a plexiglas > > > window built in the door. > > > > > > Please reply directly to ken@fraserhouse.com > > > including condition and price. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Ken Campbell > From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri Oct 10 00:10:20 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:24 2005 Subject: Posting propagation delays In-Reply-To: John Lawson "Posting propagation delays" (Oct 9, 22:24) References: Message-ID: <10310100610.ZM23984@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Oct 9, 22:24, John Lawson wrote: > > I am moderately curious why it is taking one to five (or more) hours for > posts to show up... manual moderation perhaps? If so, I don't envy Jay > for the task... > > But other than that... more than one person I know is experiencing > these lengthy delays between 'send' and 'recieved'.. When did you post this one? The headers show when it passe through each MTA along the way (in reverse order): Received: from [209.145.140.36] (helo=huey.classiccmp.org) by he104war.uk.vianw.net with esmtp (Exim 4.04) id 1A7n7p-0002av-00 for pete@dunnington.u-net.com; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 03:35:29 +0100 Received: from huey.classiccmp.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by huey.classiccmp.org (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h9A2YjH5056131; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 21:34:46 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org) Received: from mail3.panix.com (mail3.panix.com [166.84.1.74]) by huey.classiccmp.org (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h9A2WmH3056107 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 21:32:48 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from jpl15@panix.com) Received: from panix2.panix.com (panix2.panix.com [166.84.1.2]) by mail3.panix.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D5F7F9826F for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 22:24:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by panix2.panix.com (8.11.6p2-a/8.8.8/PanixN1.1) with ESMTP id h9A2OSm12933 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 22:24:28 -0400 (EDT) So it took about 10 minutes from your mailer to my ISP (give or take a little, allowing for possible lack of clock sync) fo this one. Next time you see a delay, look at the message headers and you'll see where the delay is. In this case, most of the 10 minutes is at panix.com. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From freddyboomboom at comcast.net Fri Oct 10 00:29:58 2003 From: freddyboomboom at comcast.net (Andrew Prince) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:24 2005 Subject: Help! need 400k/800k Mac os 6 or 7 diskettes! In-Reply-To: <009f01c38ec3$53975760$3d7ca418@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: <000001c38eef$8d5965c0$6c7ba8c0@freddyboomboom> I've got 2 10 pack Maxell DD/DS 3.5 inch floppies (800k), still in shrink wrap. If you're in the neighborhood of Portland Oregon, where do you want to meet so I can hand them over? Or I could mail them to you, and I'd even trust you to send the postage back to me... :) TTFN Andrew > -----Original Message----- > Subject: Re: Help! need 400k/800k Mac os 6 or 7 diskettes! > > If the person needs these images dumped to disk I can do that > also if blanks > are sent to me ( I am out of 800k floppies since my amiga, > atari st, IIgs > have sucked them all down in the last month, time to find some more). > > Hope this helps. > > TZ > > > > > > From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri Oct 10 00:30:50 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:24 2005 Subject: Googlers In-Reply-To: Vintage Computer Festival "Re: Googlers" (Oct 9, 19:36) References: Message-ID: <10310100630.ZM23997@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Oct 9, 19:36, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > Actually, having the archives come up on Google is the only way to access > them at this point, and I don't want that to be taken away. I agree, it's really usful. > And either you are messing with the reply-to headers or the reply-to > headers are f**cked. When I want to reply to a message the default should > be to the list. I'm sick of fighting with my damn e-mailer. What's up with your mailer? The "Reply-to:" header is fine, and there aren't any extraneous headers that should affect replies. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri Oct 10 00:36:32 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:24 2005 Subject: Googlers In-Reply-To: Tothwolf "Re: Googlers" (Oct 9, 22:16) References: Message-ID: <10310100636.ZM24000@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Oct 9, 22:16, Tothwolf wrote: > On Thu, 9 Oct 2003, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > On Thu, 9 Oct 2003, Fred Cisin wrote: > > > > > But would it be feasable to have the mailing list software > > > automatically put a "non-member submission" addition in their subject > > > line? "[NMS]" > > Or...maybe replacing the From: email address in the archive emails with > the list email address hasn't worked as well as folks thought it might? Ah, does that mean I'm not the only person who doesn't like that? It just looks wrong to me, putting some other address against my name, and I'm sure that's part of the cause of so many non-subscriber replies being sent to the list (I'm sure most are meant to go to the original poster). The intent was to prevent address harvesting, but I'd prefer my address was just obfuscated in some way (maybe split up). Wasn't the address-replacing meant to be temporary, until a better way was found to obfuscate the sender address? Actually, I don't care if it's not even obfuscated, but I know others do. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From esharpe at uswest.net Fri Oct 10 00:43:17 2003 From: esharpe at uswest.net (ed sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:24 2005 Subject: *****Ty Data word processor tapes need data read from.....HELP! References: <005e01c38eaa$a6e4c1a0$4291a8c0@aoldsl.net> <001901c38ee9$72d52000$2101a8c0@farumdata.dk> Message-ID: <003f01c38ef1$68978990$0100a8c0@SONYDIGITALED> it is a normal cassette... if I remember these units right they were hooked to a typewriter... Thanks Ed Sharpe archivist for SMECC Please check our web site at http://www.smecc.org to see other engineering fields, communications and computation stuff we buy, and by all means when in Arizona drop in and see us. address: coury house / smecc 5802 w palmaire ave glendale az 85301 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nico de Jong" To: "Ed Sharpe" ; "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2003 9:46 PM Subject: Re: *****Ty Data word processor tapes need data read from.....HELP! > What kind of tape is it, physically ? Any special recording modes (I'm thinking along QIC-02 or QIC-80 lines) > Nico > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ed Sharpe" > To: > Cc: > Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2003 11:16 PM > Subject: *****Ty Data word processor tapes need data read from.....HELP! > > > > Ty Data word processor tapes need data read from.....HELP! > > > > attempting to help someone out on this issue. they have the ty data > > tapes but alas no machine... google does noting much on this issue! > > > > Does anyone have a ty data machine or know he char set and format tapes > > are recorded in? > > > > thanks ed sharpe, archivist for smecc > > > > > > > From jpl15 at panix.com Fri Oct 10 01:08:22 2003 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:24 2005 Subject: Posting propagation delays In-Reply-To: <10310100610.ZM23984@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <10310100610.ZM23984@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 10 Oct 2003, Pete Turnbull wrote: > On Oct 9, 22:24, John Lawson wrote: > > > > I am moderately curious why it is taking one to five (or more) > h [chaste snippage] > When did you post this one? The headers show when it passe through > each MTA along the way (in reverse order): This one 'cleared' fairly quickly, as you point out. Vide my previous message "Scrapping Tape Drive" for an example of a 'delayed' post. > > Received: from [209.145.140.36] (helo=huey.classiccmp.org) > [more snippola] > So it took about 10 minutes from your mailer to my ISP (give or take a > little, allowing for possible lack of clock sync) fo this one. Next > time you see a delay, look at the message headers and you'll see where > the delay is. Well, Pete, maybe *you'll* see where the delay is - I'm just a dumb EE, and all this Stuff makes my head hurt. In fact, I have never in the last 12 years had the "full header" mode in Pine 'on' until tonite... and I turned in right back off again. What I am still asking is why it sometimes takes hours for a post to propagate - not how to read / interpret routing info. I don't care much about the data per se, just trying to understand the *algorithm*. And, understanding that even in the last six months, there has been a quantum jump in the spam and 'bacteria' levels in the overall Inet traffic - it still irks me that not too long ago messages seemd to have only a few seconds from 'send' to 'read'. Cheers John From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri Oct 10 01:23:57 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:24 2005 Subject: Acorn Econet In-Reply-To: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) "Re: Acorn Econet" (Oct 9, 22:56) References: Message-ID: <10310100723.ZM24034@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Oct 9, 22:56, Tony Duell wrote: > Incidentally, have you ever tried to add 'real' sideways RAM to a B+? > The buit-in RAM only gives 12K of sideways RAM, which is fairly useless. > I was wondering about adding a 62256 chip (or similar) in one of the > EPROM sockets, with the WE/ line connected appropriately. I've never tried it because I have two "proper" Beebs (the kind with ATPL Sidewise boards, second processors, and case clips instead of screws :-)) a B+ 128K, and a Master Turbo. I don't see any reason it shouldn't work, though. I always fit a write-protect/enable/disable switch to sideways RAM, though. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri Oct 10 01:54:16 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:24 2005 Subject: Posting propagation delays In-Reply-To: John Lawson "Re: Posting propagation delays" (Oct 10, 2:08) References: <10310100610.ZM23984@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <10310100754.ZM24106@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Oct 10, 2:08, John Lawson wrote: > On Fri, 10 Oct 2003, Pete Turnbull wrote: > > On Oct 9, 22:24, John Lawson wrote: > > > > > > I am moderately curious why it is taking one to five (or more) > > When did you post this one? The headers show when it passe through > > each MTA along the way (in reverse order): > > This one 'cleared' fairly quickly, as you point out. Vide my previous > message "Scrapping Tape Drive" for an example of a 'delayed' post. Well, I no longer have that particular message... > What I am still asking is why it sometimes takes hours for a post to > propagate - not how to read / interpret routing info. I don't care much > about the data per se, just trying to understand the *algorithm*. My point is that unless you can see *where* the delay is, you won't be able to guess *why*. If a server is busy, it might queue mail up; mail queues are normally run at regular intervals but the size of the interval depends on the sysadmin who set it up (15 minutes is common). If there's a temporary DNS failure, mail might be queued for longer. There are various other things that might delay mail -- on a busy server, set up to use idents, mail from a PC might get delayed long enough to be deferred until the next queue run (and then deferred again, and...) Next time you see a delay, look at the headers in that message (or send them to me -- I tend to delete mail as I read it, so telling me which message, after the event, isn't going to be helpful :-)) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From tractorb at ihug.co.nz Fri Oct 10 02:09:32 2003 From: tractorb at ihug.co.nz (Dave Brown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:25 2005 Subject: Googlers References: <10310100630.ZM23997@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <032d01c38efd$74571500$6a00a8c0@athlon> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pete Turnbull" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Friday, October 10, 2003 6:30 PM Subject: Re: Googlers > On Oct 9, 19:36, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > > Actually, having the archives come up on Google is the only way to > access > > them at this point, and I don't want that to be taken away. > > I agree, it's really usful. > > > And either you are messing with the reply-to headers or the reply-to > > headers are f**cked. When I want to reply to a message the default > should > > be to the list. I'm sick of fighting with my damn e-mailer. > > What's up with your mailer? The "Reply-to:" header is fine, and there > aren't any extraneous headers that should affect replies. > > -- > Pete Peter Turnbull > Network Manager > University of York > From cheri-post at web.de Fri Oct 10 03:39:28 2003 From: cheri-post at web.de (Pierre Gebhardt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:25 2005 Subject: Posting times Message-ID: <200310100839.h9A8dRQ13716@mailgate5.cinetic.de> Normally, I get nothing within 3 or 4 days and after that, I get a bunch of 200 emails. As Al says, sometimes the original email of a subject comes in later than lots of answers to it. I've seen this several times now. Pierre > > Anyone else seeing extended times (< 15 minutes or so) before their > posts get to the list? Kind of annoying to post something and not see it > pop up on the list within a relatively short time!!! ______________________________________________________________________________ Horoskop, Comics, VIPs, Wetter, Sport und Lotto im WEB.DE Screensaver1.2 Kostenlos downloaden: http://screensaver.web.de/?mc=021110 From cheri-post at web.de Fri Oct 10 03:45:27 2003 From: cheri-post at web.de (Pierre Gebhardt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:25 2005 Subject: anyone notice this gorgeous piece? Message-ID: <200310100845.h9A8jRQ28300@mailgate5.cinetic.de> Yep, me too !! Thats what I call a nice disk drive ! > That was a nice one and I hope to get one someday. > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3050481627&category=1479 > > > > CDC 97xx disc drive. Looks very clean. > > > ______________________________________________________________________________ Horoskop, Comics, VIPs, Wetter, Sport und Lotto im WEB.DE Screensaver1.2 Kostenlos downloaden: http://screensaver.web.de/?mc=021110 From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Fri Oct 10 03:55:16 2003 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:25 2005 Subject: HP9k video and other questions In-Reply-To: <28987915.1065742873493.JavaMail.root@bigbird.psp.pas.earthlink.net>; from kd7bcy@teleport.com on Fri, Oct 10, 2003 at 01:41:12 %z References: <28987915.1065742873493.JavaMail.root@bigbird.psp.pas.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <20031010085516.GM350776@MrPomeroy2> On 2003.10.10 01:41 John Rollins Jr wrote: > >Depends on the video card. > This is the built-in video... DE-15 on the back of the case. Uhh. Never seen that on a HP/Apollo 4xx. > Would I be able to use one of my Apollo monitors with an > Apollo video card installed in an ISA slot? No. The ISA slot is only for the Apollo Token Ring card and not usable for anything else. (I was told so, I don't know if this is true.) -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From rhudson at cnonline.net Fri Oct 10 08:00:00 2003 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:25 2005 Subject: Help! need 400k/800k Mac os 6 or 7 diskettes! In-Reply-To: <000001c38eef$8d5965c0$6c7ba8c0@freddyboomboom> Message-ID: On Friday, October 10, 2003, at 12:29 AM, Andrew Prince wrote: > I've got 2 10 pack Maxell DD/DS 3.5 inch floppies (800k), still in > shrink > wrap. > > If you're in the neighborhood of Portland Oregon, where do you want to > meet > so I can hand them over? > > Or I could mail them to you, and I'd even trust you to send the > postage back > to me... :) > > TTFN > Andrew Hi Andrew, Thanks I have blank disks. I am looking for the original of the message below to see who said that. > >> -----Original Message----- >> Subject: Re: Help! need 400k/800k Mac os 6 or 7 diskettes! >> >> If the person needs these images dumped to disk I can do that >> also if blanks >> are sent to me ( I am out of 800k floppies since my amiga, >> atari st, IIgs >> have sucked them all down in the last month, time to find some more). >> >> Hope this helps. >> >> TZ >> >> >> >> >> >> > > From jwest at classiccmp.org Fri Oct 10 07:59:58 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:25 2005 Subject: Posting propagation delays References: <10310100610.ZM23984@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <008901c38f2e$68c95b40$033310ac@kwcorp.com> It was written.... > > I am moderately curious why it is taking one to five (or more) > hours for > > posts to show up... manual moderation perhaps? If so, I don't envy > Jay > > for the task... The delay depends on a lot of things. Here is some general non-specific info. First, it fairly frequently happens that someone subscribes to the list, then gets a different email address, or just posts from a different one, and to the list it becomes a "non-member" submission. There are also some regular list contributors who have never bothered to subscribe so their posts are always manually approved. I TRY to go through all the "posts held for moderation" twice a day. However, due to work and believe it or not, tending to MY collection, sometimes I get backlogged for a day or even a couple days. It's not uncommon for 200+ emails to be waiting moderation (on each list) each time I do it. It's not a 5 minute affair to go through each of them and approve/discard them. The list does get hit with pretty significant amounts of SPAM even with keyword filters further making this very time consuming. Another reason for delays is believe it or not a suprisingly large number of people try to use that "dynamic DNS" crap which is sorely unreliable, or try to host their own mail or web service on a cable or xDSL or even dialup (hence the dyndns stuff). WHY do people who get a tiny DSL or cable connection think it's so cool to run their own services? These connections were meant for one thing - websurfing (they are asymetric channels) - NOT mail or web serving or even worse, hosting your own DNS. Unless they are very carefully watching their mail logs, most of the time they don't even know that fairly often their mail system isn't reachable. So all the list emails going to them fill up my mail queue with "timed out waiting to connect to host....", or "host unreachable...". So often many sets of complete list traffic sit in my mail queue. The problem is, each time a sendmail queue runner wakes up on my mail server, it has to go through the entire mail queue. Not just for regular list traffic but for all these emails that were rejected by the target server the first time or two, which delays everyone elses traffic. I suspect I'm running into a "cascading queue runner" effect, where the queue run times are set fairly short and another queue runner is started before the first one finishes which compounds the problem with locking, etc. These people generally are unaware that their "coolness" effort is affecting others. Sorry for going off on this tangent - pet peeve. More often than not, the delays people have seen are the result of other mail servers along the way, not mine - as was thankfully pointed out in this posting by the listing of the server hops and transit times. On a couple of occasions we have had problems on my end I will admit, but most often that's not the case. There is definitely some additional tuning to sendmail that I need to do. I just haven't had the time yet. Right now my personal classiccmp email address has well over 800 emails in it that are mostly things I need to address. My work email is much worse. I am truely sorry to the people who have emailed me and I haven't responded yet, but with those volumes it's hard to even motivate to start when one gets behind. And I have been behind lately mostly because I have spent some time with my own collection as of late. Not to mention the fact that... well, perhaps I am a little irked that people think a 10 minute post to receive cycle is slow. Ah well, I'll get there :) Jay --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From rhudson at cnonline.net Fri Oct 10 08:08:20 2003 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:25 2005 Subject: Help! need 400k/800k Mac os 6 or 7 diskettes! In-Reply-To: <009f01c38ec3$53975760$3d7ca418@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: On Thursday, October 9, 2003, at 07:13 PM, TeoZ wrote: > System 7 (or 7.1) disks on Double Density floppies (800k): > Macintosh Networking Basics > System 7 Tuneup > Before you install system 7 > Install 1 > Install 2 > Install 3 > Printing > Fonts > Tidbits > More Tidbits > If the person who has the SE needs a copy of these disks (I have a > number of > 68k macs that can copy these floppies correctly) he can send me blank > disks > and I will mail them back copied. Let's Talk offline --- :^) Someone is mailing me system 6 and that's probably what I will install at first. It's running 7.1 (incomplete) right now, 10 disks? > If the person can use disk images on their > own 68k mac I can make images and email them out. Can't, My SE is not net-connected. > I did notice there isnt a > disk tools disk listed on the 800k set but I am sure it can be > downloaded > from apples site, or a 3rd party util can be used (LIDO 7.56). > > System 6.03, 6.05, 6.08 in 800k images can be found here: > http://www.info.apple.com/support/oldersoftwarelist.html > > If the person needs these images dumped to disk I can do that also if > blanks > are sent to me ( I am out of 800k floppies since my amiga, atari st, > IIgs > have sucked them all down in the last month, time to find some more). > > Hope this helps. > > TZ > > > > > > > From rhudson at cnonline.net Fri Oct 10 08:09:42 2003 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:25 2005 Subject: Help! need 400k/800k Mac os 6 or 7 diskettes! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <0326882A-FB23-11D7-9D06-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> Was there such a thing as an external 1.44 drive? If there was could my SE use it? On Thursday, October 9, 2003, at 02:46 PM, chris wrote: >> Do older external 400k drives work with System 8? > > I doubt it. I'm pretty sure Apple removed support for 400K disks at the > OS level starting with 8. Although I could be wrong. > >> I find it hard to >> swing a dead cat without hitting a pile of external Mac (or Apple II) >> disk drives. > > Are you sure they are 400k drives? The platinum colored ones that were > pleantiful and worked with the mac and the IIgs are 800k drives. > > If you really find an old external beige 400k drive for the Mac, I'd > love > to have it. I have two that are dead and none that work. I'd like one > for > one of my 128 Macs. > > -chris > > > From tomj at wps.com Thu Oct 9 15:47:15 2003 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:25 2005 Subject: [Fwd: paper tape, black or otherwise, and non-paper] Message-ID: <1065731327.15567.40.camel@linux.local> I don't know why everyone's so hot to buy old oxidized crumbly tape when you can buy it BRAND NEW MANUFACTURE from www.westnc.com for cheaper... mylar too (not cheap). * Mylar is shiny and strong. You can (almost) tow a car with it. * Paper is, well, paper. It rips. * Except when it's not: there are paper-mylar-paper hybrid tapes, which were once popular; it handles like paper but is much tougher. In the URL below, the larger picture on the left is hybrid tape. * There are oiled paper tapes, but those were mostly for mechanical systems. Most "modern" punches handle mylar. ASR33's and the like do NOT, they like oiled paper. Many really-low-cost readers, like from the early hobby computer era, prefer black tape, since the cheaper reader heads needed 100% contrast (and yellow tape passes yellow->IR (incandescent) light). http://wps.com/projects/paper-tape/index.html PS: A quick check of WestNC's website shows skyrocketing prices! I think they are phasing it out... maybe I should stockpile more... http://www.westnc.com/paptape.html] From tomj at wps.com Thu Oct 9 15:47:16 2003 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:25 2005 Subject: [Fwd: paper tape, black or otherwise, and non-paper] Message-ID: <1065731372.15567.42.camel@linux.local> I don't know why everyone's so hot to buy old oxidized crumbly tape when you can buy it BRAND NEW MANUFACTURE from www.westnc.com for cheaper... mylar too (not cheap). * Mylar is shiny and strong. You can (almost) tow a car with it. * Paper is, well, paper. It rips. * Except when it's not: there are paper-mylar-paper hybrid tapes, which were once popular; it handles like paper but is much tougher. In the URL below, the larger picture on the left is hybrid tape. * There are oiled paper tapes, but those were mostly for mechanical systems. Most "modern" punches handle mylar. ASR33's and the like do NOT, they like oiled paper. Many really-low-cost readers, like from the early hobby computer era, prefer black tape, since the cheaper reader heads needed 100% contrast (and yellow tape passes yellow->IR (incandescent) light). http://wps.com/projects/paper-tape/index.html PS: A quick check of WestNC's website shows skyrocketing prices! I think they are phasing it out... maybe I should stockpile more... http://www.westnc.com/paptape.html] From tomj at wps.com Thu Oct 9 15:57:54 2003 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:25 2005 Subject: black paper tape = mylar? In-Reply-To: <200310091700.h99H0NH5053615@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <200310091700.h99H0NH5053615@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <1065732011.15568.49.camel@linux.local> > That sounds interesting, how is it oiled? I had thought about that > before, and I couldn't imagine just dunking a roll of paper in oil, or > spraying it with oil or something. How oily is paper tape anyway? I > don't have any oiled tape, although I need to get some for my ASR33. I > have been using strips of computer paper to test, but I am worried that > the unoiled paper might wear down the punch. I thought about having a > stack of junk fanfold greenbar cut into 1" strips on the big machine in > at work, but since it wouldn't be oiled, I don't know if it would > damage anything. Do you really _need_ oiled tape, or can you get by > without it? I odn't know how it's oiled (mist probably) but it's oily enoug that if you leave it on a stack of paper, magazine, clothing, etc it leaves a nasty stain the next morning. Haven't touched the horrid stuff in a decade or two but I bet it ozidizes faster. Unless you're punching out the assembly source to your FORTRAN compiler or something I doubt you'll wear out you punch with casual use of dry tape. You might try running a manually oiled foot or two of tape (punch RUBOUTs) once in a while to manually oil it. Just a guess. Chadless 5-level oiled tape is the most 'fun'. Instead of holes it punches little toilet-seat-shaped "U"s. Umm not so good for optical readers, but fine for mechanical readers what stick a little rob up the hole to read. I have an article about different types of readers talka about readers that blow air through the holes, detected with a little 'sail' on a microswitch, and running the chadless tape over a corner to tilt out the flaps for optical reading. Sheesh, why bother. From tomj at wps.com Thu Oct 9 16:10:10 2003 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:25 2005 Subject: ASR33 Teletype interfacing Message-ID: <1065732747.15567.62.camel@linux.local> >I have been attempting to get my ASR33 teletype connected to something >and communicating, but so far I have not been successful. I have built >the interface here : >http://www.daedalus.co.nz/~don/computing/20mahack.html It wont work, sorry... Teletypes are inductive loads. Though they only want 20 mils, the voltage needs to be high to get the initial magnet pull-in (basic RL theory). ASR33 loops were generally run at 100V or so, but I run my Model 28 at 14V, with non-perfect error rate, and I don't use the keyboard. The keyboard and printer are IN SERIES. If you hit keys while it's printing you foul it up. Normal. Because it's inductive, it makes a spike when yuo turn the voltage off. You need to suppress this with a diode, a resistor and capacitor, for example. They're not subtle interfaces, and weren't meant to be. If you just want to print, you can rig up a power transistor, two resistors, a diode, and a high-voltage DC power supply to do the trick, and drive it from the serial port. If you want to receieve also, you can use another transistor and resistor to pick off the change in loop current that happens when you press keys which open the loop, and drive the serial port. I've done one of these fairly recently, and if poked with a not-too-sharp stick, I'll scan the schematic and pu on my website. From A.Haunstetter at VR-Web.de Thu Oct 9 16:11:30 2003 From: A.Haunstetter at VR-Web.de (Adrian Haunstetter) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:25 2005 Subject: Erasing Eprom by using UV-Led Message-ID: <000c01c38eaa$01f62940$c3fdfea9@adrian> Hello Mr. Shannon, in the topic "A way to erase OTP components?" I read that you succeeded to erase windowed 27C512 using a UV-Led. Because I'm about to build a combined Programmer/Eraser, where erasing shall be done with UV-Led, I like to ask you about your experiences. What type of Led do you use? How long do you need to erase? What was the distance between Led and Chip? Did you made Test with other devices? I hope you take a little bit of your time to answer me. With best regards Adrian Haunstetter From artools at earthlink.net Thu Oct 9 21:36:37 2003 From: artools at earthlink.net (Steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:25 2005 Subject: Minivac tic-tac-toe Message-ID: <3F861B35.BF93FC11@earthlink.net> Hi Tony, Did you ever get the tic-tac-toe wiring diagram? I would like a copy of it too. I don't have a Minivac, but it would be simple enough to build. Do you have any Minivac pictures to send. I am interested in details of the motor and ttt board. If I had all the details of the Minivac structure, I might be able to figure out a ttt diagram. -- Steve From acnz at info.com.ph Thu Oct 9 23:29:58 2003 From: acnz at info.com.ph (acnz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:25 2005 Subject: RZ26-E 1.05Gbyte SCSI Hard Drive Message-ID: <006001c38ee7$2b7e6880$d5f1a3ca@ispc30029> Hi Mike I am interested in a DEC BA42 Expansion Box containing a RZ26-E SCSI 1.05Gbyte hard drive? Curious if you have what we are looking for or can help in locating any of these outdated drives? Need 2 to 3. Cheers Benny Braas Airways New Zealand Philippines acnz@info.com.ph From meltie at meltie.com Fri Oct 10 04:16:56 2003 From: meltie at meltie.com (Alex White) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:25 2005 Subject: anyone notice this gorgeous piece? In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20031008120505.02055630@mail.ubanproductions.com> References: <5.2.0.9.0.20031008092141.020376e0@mail.ubanproductions.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20031008120505.02055630@mail.ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <200310101016.56590.meltie@meltie.com> On Wednesday 08 Oct 2003 6:10 pm, Tom Uban wrote: > I also have a Fujitsu M2284K drive which has the tinted > plastic HDA cover, so that you can see the guts of the > 14" drive assembly. > > http://www.ubanproductions.com/m2284k.html > > --tom > Sweet, could you give me an insight into how the shock indicator works? alex/melt From meltie at meltie.com Fri Oct 10 04:16:56 2003 From: meltie at meltie.com (Alex White) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:25 2005 Subject: anyone notice this gorgeous piece? In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20031008120505.02055630@mail.ubanproductions.com> References: <5.2.0.9.0.20031008092141.020376e0@mail.ubanproductions.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20031008120505.02055630@mail.ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <200310101016.56590.meltie@meltie.com> On Wednesday 08 Oct 2003 6:10 pm, Tom Uban wrote: > I also have a Fujitsu M2284K drive which has the tinted > plastic HDA cover, so that you can see the guts of the > 14" drive assembly. > > http://www.ubanproductions.com/m2284k.html > > --tom > Sweet, could you give me an insight into how the shock indicator works? alex/melt From meltie at meltie.com Fri Oct 10 04:19:50 2003 From: meltie at meltie.com (Alex White) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:25 2005 Subject: Multi-CPU Qbus VAXen In-Reply-To: <3F8468DD.20302@ecubics.com> References: <200310081836.h98Iahe23050@abort.crash.com> <3F8468DD.20302@ecubics.com> Message-ID: <200310101019.50843.meltie@meltie.com> On Wednesday 08 Oct 2003 8:43 pm, emanuel stiebler wrote: > Steven M Jones wrote: > > On a related note, I there's a MicroNote about running multiple > > MicroVAX II CPUs (KA630, M7606) in a single backplane. Up to 4 > > in fact (MicroNote #26, on www.ibiblio.org). Has anyone on the > > list ever worked with, built, or seen such a beast? Did any > > interesting OS research projects of the time use this feature > > (I'm thinking V or Mach)? > > Check the note again. AFAIRC, this (ka630, ka650, ...) had just a > "mailbox" register to communicate, and only one cpu had access to the > qbus. The other ones had the qbus interface shut down. So, if you didn't > have you special backplane with 4 qbuses, it was pretty limited ... I've been planning a monster like this, 4 small backplanes mounted in a hacked-around wide cabinet, 4 processors running as a VAXcluster over Ethernet... Been done before? alex/melt From meltie at meltie.com Fri Oct 10 04:20:37 2003 From: meltie at meltie.com (Alex White) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:25 2005 Subject: cctalk Digest, Vol 2, Issue 13 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200310101020.37254.meltie@meltie.com> On Thursday 09 Oct 2003 7:29 am, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > > > > OH MY GAWD! WHAT AM I SAYING? > > > > > > Ok , you leave her there. I'll carry her to the bedroom. :) > > > > Bedroom? Wheres your sense of adventure? ;) > > "A Real Retroist(tm) does it... on top of a VAX 11/7x0 !" .. Ah, memories... Was a BA215 though ;) alex/melt From meltie at meltie.com Fri Oct 10 04:20:37 2003 From: meltie at meltie.com (Alex White) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:25 2005 Subject: cctalk Digest, Vol 2, Issue 13 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200310101020.37254.meltie@meltie.com> On Thursday 09 Oct 2003 7:29 am, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > > > > OH MY GAWD! WHAT AM I SAYING? > > > > > > Ok , you leave her there. I'll carry her to the bedroom. :) > > > > Bedroom? Wheres your sense of adventure? ;) > > "A Real Retroist(tm) does it... on top of a VAX 11/7x0 !" .. Ah, memories... Was a BA215 though ;) alex/melt From uban at ubanproductions.com Fri Oct 10 10:02:39 2003 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:25 2005 Subject: anyone notice this gorgeous piece? In-Reply-To: <200310101016.56590.meltie@meltie.com> References: <5.2.0.9.0.20031008120505.02055630@mail.ubanproductions.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20031008092141.020376e0@mail.ubanproductions.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20031008120505.02055630@mail.ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20031010100032.0422de78@mail.ubanproductions.com> At 10:16 AM 10/10/2003 +0100, Alex White wrote: >On Wednesday 08 Oct 2003 6:10 pm, Tom Uban wrote: > > I also have a Fujitsu M2284K drive which has the tinted > > plastic HDA cover, so that you can see the guts of the > > 14" drive assembly. > > > > http://www.ubanproductions.com/m2284k.html > > > > --tom > > > >Sweet, could you give me an insight into how the shock indicator works? > >alex/melt There are both tilt and shock style indicators. They are pretty simple devices. I believe that the tilt ones just have a sticky surface and some red particles which if tilted get stuck to the sticky surface in order to indicate the tilted condition. The shock sensors are similar, but must have some sort of membrane which ruptures, allowing the particles to flow onto the sticky surface, or something. --tom From jpl15 at panix.com Fri Oct 10 10:06:31 2003 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:25 2005 Subject: Posting propagation delays In-Reply-To: <008901c38f2e$68c95b40$033310ac@kwcorp.com> References: <10310100610.ZM23984@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <008901c38f2e$68c95b40$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 10 Oct 2003, Jay West wrote: > It was written.... > > > I am moderately curious why it is taking one to five (or more) > > hours for [snp] > late. Not to mention the fact that... well, perhaps I am a little irked that > people think a 10 minute post to receive cycle is slow. Okay - now this gets slightly out of hand - so: I have been subscribed to classiccmp since... 97? 98? don't remember, and from Netcom (who I was with from 91 til 00 when they dropped shell services) then Panix. No cable, no DNS wierdness - just dial-up into a Unix shell account running Pine. And my question was - recently (last couple of months) it has taken several *hours* (not 10 minutes) for a post I make to classicmp to be 'visible' on my mail stream. And it was just a curious question - this is a *hobby*, not real-time-chat, or a stock-quote service... it really doesn't matter much, unless someone posts a Juicy Bit that I really want, and by the time my generous offer hits the System... no one can even remember what I'm talking about... ;{} So before the chorus of disapproval clucking swells into mob violence, that's what I (and others, it would seem - Marvin Johnston for instance) have notices. No criticism, no sniping, just curious. Cheers John From cb at mythtech.net Fri Oct 10 10:10:30 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:25 2005 Subject: Help! need 400k/800k Mac os 6 or 7 diskettes! Message-ID: >Was there such a thing as an external 1.44 drive? If there was >could my SE use it? Yes, and maybe. The ROMS in the SE dictate that it can't use more than an 800k drive. So a standard external 1.4 drive will still only operate as an 800k drive in an SE that doesn't have the newer FDHD roms (if it works at all). However, I do believe there were drives that had special drivers that let the SE use 1.4 disks. I'm just not sure of brands or availability. -chris From teoz at neo.rr.com Fri Oct 10 10:22:41 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:25 2005 Subject: Help! need 400k/800k Mac os 6 or 7 diskettes! References: Message-ID: <003801c38f42$5c074660$3d7ca418@neo.rr.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Hudson" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Friday, October 10, 2003 9:08 AM Subject: Re: Help! need 400k/800k Mac os 6 or 7 diskettes! > > On Thursday, October 9, 2003, at 07:13 PM, TeoZ wrote: > > System 7 (or 7.1) disks on Double Density floppies (800k): > > Macintosh Networking Basics > > System 7 Tuneup > > Before you install system 7 > > Install 1 > > Install 2 > > Install 3 > > Printing > > Fonts > > Tidbits > > More Tidbits > > If the person who has the SE needs a copy of these disks (I have a > > number of > > 68k macs that can copy these floppies correctly) he can send me blank > > disks > > and I will mail them back copied. > > Let's Talk offline --- :^) Someone is mailing me system 6 > and that's probably what I will install at first. It's running > 7.1 (incomplete) right now, 10 disks? > > > If the person can use disk images on their > > own 68k mac I can make images and email them out. > > Can't, My SE is not net-connected. > > > > I did notice there isnt a > > disk tools disk listed on the 800k set but I am sure it can be > > downloaded > > from apples site, or a 3rd party util can be used (LIDO 7.56). > > > > System 6.03, 6.05, 6.08 in 800k images can be found here: > > http://www.info.apple.com/support/oldersoftwarelist.html > > > > If the person needs these images dumped to disk I can do that also if > > blanks > > are sent to me ( I am out of 800k floppies since my amiga, atari st, > > IIgs > > have sucked them all down in the last month, time to find some more). > > > > Hope this helps. > > > > TZ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let me know if you need 7.x if 6.x doesnt work out. From cb at mythtech.net Fri Oct 10 10:24:16 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:25 2005 Subject: 5.25" floppies available Message-ID: I've got a large pile of 5.25" floppies available. These seem to have no resale value on ebay, so I'm offering them here. I've got some that are labeled as HD, some as DD, and a huge pile that are not labeled at all (which I know some are HD and some DD). All the disks are used, and most have labels with writing on them. Some have multiple lables stacked up, some have write protect tabs. Just about all have sleeves (I noticed 3 or 4 while sorting that didn't). Some may get bulk erased before they are sent out, but most will be left in whatever state they are in (if you have some amazing interest in reading market research reports on products from 10 years ago, then this is your chance) If anyone wants some, tell me how many you want, and where you want them sent. All I'm asking for is postage + $1.00. For that price, you can have as many of whatever kind you want (up to the max number I have, which I don't yet know as the pile is still growing). -chris From cb at mythtech.net Fri Oct 10 10:28:11 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:25 2005 Subject: Box of assorted chips available Message-ID: I've got two small boxes of assorted chips available. I have NO idea what all they are. They are just random pulls from motherboards and cards and things like that. There may be CPUs, or bios, or cache, or ram, or FPU, or who knows what. Nothing is of the "current" genre, that's why I'm offering them here (almost all should be 486 or earlier era stuff, with lots being 286 era). Not all the chips are in great shape, and none have been carefully handled or packed. They have all just been tosed into two Priority Mail video tape boxes. So pins might be bent or otherwise damaged. If anyone wants them, just cover the postage (plus my buck for gas/paypal). -chris From cb at mythtech.net Fri Oct 10 10:34:05 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:25 2005 Subject: Last call: 7" 9 track reel tapes Message-ID: Last call on 7" 9 track reel to reel tapes. They are labeled as "Endura 800 BPI to 6250 CPI BASF". All have data on them, none will be erased before shipping. I have 3 cases of 24 left. A case is $8.00 to mail in the USA via Media Mail rate. I had been asking $10.00 for a case plus shipping ($18.00 total for 24 tapes, so less then a buck a tape). If I get no takers, they are going in the trash, so I'm open to offers on their sale price. And for you googlers that are going to see this posting 6 years from now and ask... this is dated 10/10/03, and the tapes will be in the garbage by 10/13/03... so if you are reading too much later than that, don't bother asking, they are already gone. -chris From allain at panix.com Fri Oct 10 10:40:42 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:25 2005 Subject: Posting propagation delays References: <10310100610.ZM23984@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com><008901c38f2e$68c95b40$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <01df01c38f44$dd90ac60$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > And my question was - recently (last couple of months) it > has taken several *hours* (not 10 minutes) for a post I make > to classicmp to be 'visible' on my mail stream. There was a cartoon in the NYT this Sunday... And I mean it to be relevant here, where there might be no other good explanation... Maybe it's time to to add your name to the Federal Do-Not-Wiretap list. John A. 10 minute delay only. From jwest at classiccmp.org Fri Oct 10 10:44:49 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:25 2005 Subject: Posting propagation delays References: <10310100610.ZM23984@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com><008901c38f2e$68c95b40$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <01b901c38f45$70c3c760$033310ac@kwcorp.com> It was written... > So before the chorus of disapproval clucking swells into mob violence, > that's what I (and others, it would seem - Marvin Johnston for instance) > have notices. No criticism, no sniping, just curious. Didn't mean that to come across as a slam. I just had a minor stress fracture this morning due to way too many overcomittments on my part (non-list related). My apologies! A better way to phrase it would be... "I know there are some issues with Sendmail performance on the classiccmp mail server. It will take me longer than it should to get around to fixing them, but rest assured I know about them and I'll get to it!" :) Jay --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From classiccmp at crash.com Fri Oct 10 12:04:42 2003 From: classiccmp at crash.com (Steven M Jones) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:25 2005 Subject: Multi-CPU Qbus VAXen Message-ID: <200310101704.h9AH4ge32450@abort.crash.com> Alex White wrote: > > I've been planning a monster like this, 4 small backplanes mounted > in a hacked-around wide cabinet, 4 processors running as a VAXcluster > over Ethernet... Been done before? If you're running them as a LAVC (Local Area VAXCluster, used to be any cluster using Ethernet instead of CI) then this was done all the time and I'm sure still is. They probably haven't called them LAVC's for years and years, though. If you're saying you're going to interconnect the backplanes per the discussion here and in MicroNote #26, then if people did it it was a not a very common thing. And as others have pointed out, the normal OS candidates won't have support for it. That's not a reason to stop the project, just be aware of the necessary effort. --S. From collectionsale at quicknet.nl Fri Oct 10 12:19:03 2003 From: collectionsale at quicknet.nl (Collection 4 Sale) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:25 2005 Subject: Vintage collection for sale Message-ID: <009201c38f52$9a57a030$8e21fea9@sergej> Please see http://www.fossilicon.com/collectionsale for details and pictures thanks, Sergej From arcarlini at iee.org Fri Oct 10 13:03:40 2003 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:25 2005 Subject: Multi-CPU Qbus VAXen In-Reply-To: <200310101019.50843.meltie@meltie.com> Message-ID: <003301c38f58$d5dc3b60$5b01a8c0@athlon> > I've been planning a monster like this, 4 small backplanes > mounted in a > hacked-around wide cabinet, 4 processors running as a VAXcluster over > Ethernet... If you mean 4-way multiprocessing, then 2-way was almost certainly done at some time (probably in DECwest). I'm not sure 4-way is practical, at least not with 4 backplanes. If you want them all in one backplane you probably have to remove (or otherwise inhibit) the bus terminating resistors on 3 of the processors. As others have pointed out, it doesn't really get you anywhere since there is no real shared memory between the processors (they could each have their own via PMI or they could all share some Qbus memory - neither is an appealing option). You would also have the minor problem that no OS would be able to do much with the slave processors. (In fact, I think all the Oses I know of probably wouldn't even notice them, so they would probably boot as though they were on a MicroVAX II (or III if you used KA65x processors). If OTOH you meant 4 separate BA23 boxes each with its own processor all in a VAXcluster, then that's just independent MicroVAXes ... I had racks like that in the lab at DEC. But that's less exciting than pushing the boundaries I guess. You don't need a hacked cab, just an ordinary 19" rack will do ... I kept back-to-back VAX 4000s or MicroVAX IIIs in the bottom to save space and make *absolutely* sure the rack could not be tipped :-) Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From jwest at classiccmp.org Fri Oct 10 13:14:42 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:25 2005 Subject: TinyC, port to HP Message-ID: <006b01c38f5a$60b7e940$033310ac@kwcorp.com> I am looking for full source code for a *VERY* tiny C compiler written in any common assembly language. I'm much more concerned with size of the compiler than functionality/features. Can anyone suggest one or know where the source might by laying around? I thought I had heard ages ago about some microcomputer C compilers being well under 32K. As to how this relates to classiccmp... well.. *blush* I'm actually thinking of porting C to the HP2100. The whole thing has to fit in 32K of ram, including drivers, etc. Not sure what OS it will be placed on, perhaps HP-IPL/OS. Might make a simple native OS for it or might even make it standalone, not sure yet. Did I recently post about being overcomitted? heh Jay --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From emu at ecubics.com Fri Oct 10 13:28:55 2003 From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:25 2005 Subject: Multi-CPU Qbus VAXen In-Reply-To: <200310101019.50843.meltie@meltie.com> References: <200310081836.h98Iahe23050@abort.crash.com> <3F8468DD.20302@ecubics.com> <200310101019.50843.meltie@meltie.com> Message-ID: <3F86FA67.4020600@ecubics.com> Alex White wrote: >>Check the note again. AFAIRC, this (ka630, ka650, ...) had just a >>"mailbox" register to communicate, and only one cpu had access to the >>qbus. The other ones had the qbus interface shut down. So, if you didn't >>have you special backplane with 4 qbuses, it was pretty limited ... > > I've been planning a monster like this, 4 small backplanes mounted in a > hacked-around wide cabinet, 4 processors running as a VAXcluster over > Ethernet... Why bother doing you own backplanes, if you use ethernet anyway ? If you're thinking about you own box (doing your own backplane), try to use four ka655 with 64 mbyte memory each and 4 mbyte shared memory on the qbus. But again, probably no software :( From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Oct 10 13:56:15 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:25 2005 Subject: TinyC, port to HP In-Reply-To: <006b01c38f5a$60b7e940$033310ac@kwcorp.com> References: <006b01c38f5a$60b7e940$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <20031010114619.B61451@newshell.lmi.net> On Fri, 10 Oct 2003, Jay West wrote: > I am looking for full source code for a *VERY* tiny C compiler written in > any common assembly language. I'm much more concerned with size of the > compiler than functionality/features. Can anyone suggest one or know where > the source might by laying around? I thought I had heard ages ago about some > microcomputer C compilers being well under 32K. Hmmmm. Not sure of the parameters, but take a look at "Small C" by James Hendrix, published by DDJ. There were several C compilers that ran on CP/M, where the TPA is no more than twice the size that you want. Those included Aztec/Manx, and BDS C by Leor Zolman - didn't he recently release it into public domain? IIRC, BDS C did not have floating point support; but you're better off without that anyway. From arcarlini at iee.org Fri Oct 10 14:01:48 2003 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:25 2005 Subject: Multi-CPU Qbus VAXen In-Reply-To: <200310101704.h9AH4ge32450@abort.crash.com> Message-ID: <003501c38f60$f7010f20$5b01a8c0@athlon> > If you're running them as a LAVC (Local Area VAXCluster, used > to be any cluster using Ethernet instead of CI) then this was > done all the time and I'm sure still is. They probably > haven't called them LAVC's for years and years, though. Which reminds me, when the extension to ethernet clusters was first cooked up they were going to call it Local Area Vaxcluster, and obviously shorten it to LAV. Luckily someone in the UK suggested that "I'm just setting up a JOHN" is how it would get parsed over here and the name sprouted a new capital letter. Now back to weird ways of reducing MicroVAX performance ... Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Fri Oct 10 14:00:32 2003 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:25 2005 Subject: TinyC, port to HP References: <006b01c38f5a$60b7e940$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <3F8701D0.7080904@jetnet.ab.ca> Jay West wrote: > I am looking for full source code for a *VERY* tiny C compiler written in > any common assembly language. I'm much more concerned with size of the > compiler than functionality/features. Can anyone suggest one or know where > the source might by laying around? I thought I had heard ages ago about some > microcomputer C compilers being well under 32K. > > As to how this relates to classiccmp... well.. *blush* I'm actually thinking > of porting C to the HP2100. The whole thing has to fit in 32K of ram, > including drivers, etc. Not sure what OS it will be placed on, perhaps > HP-IPL/OS. Might make a simple native OS for it or might even make it > standalone, not sure yet. C requires a stack pointer and a index register.Offhand I don't think your hardware supports that. The Honeywell H316 had a high level langauge PL516 that might be easyier to port. http://www.series16.adrianwise.co.uk/ The PDP-8 is said to have a pascal compiler, that may be another idea. Ben. From jcwren at jcwren.com Fri Oct 10 14:20:55 2003 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:25 2005 Subject: TinyC, port to HP In-Reply-To: <006b01c38f5a$60b7e940$033310ac@kwcorp.com> References: <006b01c38f5a$60b7e940$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <200310101520.55905.jcwren@jcwren.com> A number of C compilers on small architectures have solved this problem by having 2, sometimes 4, distinct compiling phases, and passing data through temporary files. This gives you a lot more leeway in code space. I've seen preprocessor pass, tokenization pass, code generator pass, and in some cases, the 4th pass is the assembler (which I generally prefer over direct-to-assembly, since you can insert a user-written processing phase if you want to get funky). --John On Friday 10 October 2003 14:14 pm, Jay West wrote: > I am looking for full source code for a *VERY* tiny C compiler written in > any common assembly language. I'm much more concerned with size of the > compiler than functionality/features. Can anyone suggest one or know where > the source might by laying around? I thought I had heard ages ago about > some microcomputer C compilers being well under 32K. > > As to how this relates to classiccmp... well.. *blush* I'm actually > thinking of porting C to the HP2100. The whole thing has to fit in 32K of > ram, including drivers, etc. Not sure what OS it will be placed on, perhaps > HP-IPL/OS. Might make a simple native OS for it or might even make it > standalone, not sure yet. > > Did I recently post about being overcomitted? heh > > Jay > > --- > [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From chd_1 at nktelco.net Fri Oct 10 14:25:01 2003 From: chd_1 at nktelco.net (Charles H. Dickman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:25 2005 Subject: LK201 key stuck In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3F87078D.8090704@nktelco.net> Tony Duell wrote: >>I have been working on a DEC Pro 380 and the LK201 keyboard I have >>causes the Pro to report a stuck key and hang. So I opened up the >>keyboard thinking I could clean out whatever had jammed in there. >> >> >The clear plastic part is in 3 layers. The top layer has conductive >traces on the bottom surface. Then there's an insulating sheet with a >hole under each key (and no traces). And the bottom layer has traces on >the top surface. There are circular pads on the ends of the traces under >each key, over the holes in the insulator. > I got it to work, but I was very lucky. The key that was stuck was F10; top row on the open end of the plastic layers. I slid a piece of cardstock in between the contacts and no more stuck key. So the DEC Pro gets through the diagnostics, boots, and enters the VAX console program... Now if it was only connected to an actual VAX. >-tony > > -chuck From jwest at classiccmp.org Fri Oct 10 14:31:59 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:25 2005 Subject: TinyC, port to HP References: <006b01c38f5a$60b7e940$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <3F8701D0.7080904@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <00f501c38f65$2c576620$033310ac@kwcorp.com> It was written.... > C requires a stack pointer and a index register.Offhand I don't think > your hardware supports that. I don't see why that couldn't be implemented in software, or simply put into custom microcode for the 2100. However, in actuality, I will likely be doing this (If I take up the project) on a 21MX/E. Jay West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Fri Oct 10 14:33:26 2003 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:25 2005 Subject: TinyC, port to HP References: <006b01c38f5a$60b7e940$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <200310101520.55905.jcwren@jcwren.com> Message-ID: <3F870986.3080106@jetnet.ab.ca> J.C. Wren wrote: > A number of C compilers on small architectures have solved this problem by > having 2, sometimes 4, distinct compiling phases, and passing data through > temporary files. This gives you a lot more leeway in code space. I've seen > preprocessor pass, tokenization pass, code generator pass, and in some cases, > the 4th pass is the assembler (which I generally prefer over > direct-to-assembly, since you can insert a user-written processing phase if > you want to get funky). Most of the C-compliers I have seen for 8 bit machines, tend to cross compile from a PC. A PC is a far different machine with 32 meg and a hardisk, rather than 32k and paper tape like the HP could be. > --John > From eric at brouhaha.com Fri Oct 10 15:11:15 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:25 2005 Subject: Help! need 400k/800k Mac os 6 or 7 diskettes! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4584.4.20.168.238.1065816675.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> >>Was there such a thing as an external 1.44 drive? If there was >>could my SE use it? "chris" wrote: > The ROMS in the SE dictate that it can't use more than an 800k drive. So > a standard external 1.4 drive will still only operate as an 800k drive in > an SE that doesn't have the newer FDHD roms (if it works at all). It takes more than ROMs. The SE originally shipped with the original IWM floppy controller, which cannot handle MFM disk format (either 720K or 1440K floppies). To use the Apple Superdrive (FDHD) 1440K drive, you need BOTH the newer ROMs and the newer SWIM floppy controller. From rhudson at cnonline.net Fri Oct 10 15:23:11 2003 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:25 2005 Subject: What HP OS could it be?? Message-ID: <91B45B18-FB5F-11D7-955E-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> Ok HP experts out there One saturday my programming class in high school went on a field trip to Santa Clara University. We got to try out some of the minicomputers there. I asked the people who were with us if I could come back and use the computers any other time, they said "sure as long as you don't get in anyone's way", so for almost a year, in the dark morning hours I would go down and program in fortran.. using the card punches and seeing my output on the line printer. What OS was I running? Here's everything I remember: HP2100, Card Reader, Beehive CRT terminal, Line Printer, Flat-slip in horizontal cartridge disk drive/with fixed platter, Paper tape punch and reader, and a plotter The machine was in the engineering department of University of Santa Clara, in around 1976 Jobs were written in Algol or Fortran, and punched on cards. Job control cards had //somthing blah.... The boot loader was stored at (i think) 102077 (punch this in the switch register and hit run???) What was I using? From cb at mythtech.net Fri Oct 10 15:25:25 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:25 2005 Subject: Help! need 400k/800k Mac os 6 or 7 diskettes! Message-ID: >It takes more than ROMs. The SE originally shipped with the original >IWM floppy controller, which cannot handle MFM disk format (either 720K >or 1440K floppies). To use the Apple Superdrive (FDHD) 1440K drive, >you need BOTH the newer ROMs and the newer SWIM floppy controller. Then does that mean there weren't any 3rd party 1.4 drives that could be used on the 800k SE? I thought there were. Although maybe they were and used SCSI, or their drivers just had a way to get around the floppy controller short comings. -chris From esharpe at uswest.net Fri Oct 10 16:34:01 2003 From: esharpe at uswest.net (Ed Sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:25 2005 Subject: TinyC, port to HP References: <006b01c38f5a$60b7e940$033310ac@kwcorp.com><200310101520.55905.jcwren@jcwren.com> <3F870986.3080106@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <004401c38f76$392d7860$c417a3ac@aoldsl.net> no the hp can have a hard drive! ----- Original Message ----- From: "ben franchuk" To: ; "On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Friday, October 10, 2003 12:33 PM Subject: Re: TinyC, port to HP > J.C. Wren wrote: > > A number of C compilers on small architectures have solved this problem by > > having 2, sometimes 4, distinct compiling phases, and passing data through > > temporary files. This gives you a lot more leeway in code space. I've seen > > preprocessor pass, tokenization pass, code generator pass, and in some cases, > > the 4th pass is the assembler (which I generally prefer over > > direct-to-assembly, since you can insert a user-written processing phase if > > you want to get funky). > > Most of the C-compliers I have seen for 8 bit machines, tend to cross > compile from a PC. A PC is a far different machine with 32 meg and a > hardisk, rather than 32k and paper tape like the HP could be. > > > --John > > > > > > > From eric at brouhaha.com Fri Oct 10 15:35:33 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:25 2005 Subject: Multi-CPU Qbus VAXen In-Reply-To: <3F86FA67.4020600@ecubics.com> References: <200310081836.h98Iahe23050@abort.crash.com> <3F8468DD.20302@ecubics.com><200310101019.50843.meltie@meltie.com> <3F86FA67.4020600@ecubics.com> Message-ID: <4809.4.20.168.238.1065818133.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> "emanuel stiebler" wrote: > If you're thinking about you own box (doing your own backplane), try to > use four ka655 with 64 mbyte memory each and 4 mbyte shared memory on > the qbus. AFAIK, the KA650 and KA655 do not have the support for multiple processors on Qbus that was present in the KA630. The KA630 (MicroVAX II) had two features for this: 1) The bus interface could be configured to be a bus requester rather than the system bus arbiter. This has to be done on all CPUs other than the first. (Note that the VAX 11/780 was also capable of this, as discovered and exploited by George Goble). 2) Each processor has a "doorbell" register to allow other processors to interrupt it. From jwest at classiccmp.org Fri Oct 10 15:47:19 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:25 2005 Subject: What HP OS could it be?? References: <91B45B18-FB5F-11D7-955E-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> Message-ID: <014d01c38f6f$b2dbd8c0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> > What OS was I running? My initial guess was DOS, but I'd suspect HP's standalone RJE station with processing happening on a mainframe somewhere else. I actually seem to have a pretty extensive library of paper tapes and manuals for the standalone RJE system. > The boot loader was stored at (i think) 102077 (punch this in the > switch register and hit run???) 102077 is generally used as the T register display upon a "good halt", not a starting address. So when you ran the boot loader, if it loaded correctly, you would get a 102077. Jay West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From jwstephens at msm.umr.edu Fri Oct 10 15:54:06 2003 From: jwstephens at msm.umr.edu (jim) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:26 2005 Subject: TinyC, port to HP References: <006b01c38f5a$60b7e940$033310ac@kwcorp.com><200310101520.55905.jcwren@jcwren.com> <3F870986.3080106@jetnet.ab.ca> <004401c38f76$392d7860$c417a3ac@aoldsl.net> Message-ID: <3F871C6E.5A05A372@msm.umr.edu> > > > J.C. Wren wrote: > > > A number of C compilers on small architectures have solved this problem > by > > > having 2, sometimes 4, distinct compiling phases, and passing data > through > > > temporary files. This gives you a lot more leeway in code space. I've > seen > > > preprocessor pass, tokenization pass, code generator pass, and in some > cases, > > > the 4th pass is the assembler (which I generally prefer over > > > direct-to-assembly, since you can insert a user-written processing phase > I ported Hendrix tiny C from my Imsai (CP/M version 1.4 actually) to a mini computer that had no c support in the early 80's when it first came out. If I recall it came in two passes as mentioned, and then an assembly, then link. There was a c library support as well. I actually didn't to go assembly for the mini, but actually to an interpreted language like Java uses now. I think I had to implement around 30 opcodes total to implement the instructions used by the hendrix compiler. that means that of all the 8080 instructions that the original hendrix compiler emitted, there were only 30 total used. It supports a 16 bit address space natively, so would produce good code on your HP. A typical pass was as follows: run C0 on the c source run C1 on the result of C0 merge the source for the clib (which was earlier run thru C0 and C1) with this output of C1. Assemble the whole mess with an assembler that assembled to a relocatable module. take relocatable module, and use load command to suck into interpreter on target machine (which was written in assembly). I don't know about running in 32k. That probably would be tight to run the compiler. I think the full C lib was around 24k long, but it may have been smaller. Since i linked in the whole mess w/o any way to pick and choose what was used vs what was not, it was allways there regardless. A better linker and better way of merging in the clib could fix that. the machine I had had a symbolic assembler that was easy to gen up the assembler used here w/o any work so I didn't optimize that at all. As to optimization, you do have to do some duplicate elimination, but other than that, it produced pretty good code. most of the work on the hendrix c compiler was to the C1 pass, which emitted the 8080 instructions. I don't recall whether the Hendrix Tiny C was orignally for the 8080 / CP/M environment, or whether the published version was a port from some other environment, but the one I worked from ran on either CP/M 1.4 or 2 or 3x cpm's. the clib was pretty brain dead. Jim From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Oct 10 13:39:05 2003 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:26 2005 Subject: Am I seeing things? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20031006154709.007ba540@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <00b001c38c3d$d4fdc380$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20031010113821.02e65d90@pop-server.socal.rr.com> > I've replied to a couple of people looking for things and NONE of them >has ever responded so I seldom bother any more. > > Joe Did you reply to the person or the list? From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Fri Oct 10 16:23:38 2003 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:26 2005 Subject: TinyC, port to HP In-Reply-To: <006b01c38f5a$60b7e940$033310ac@kwcorp.com>; from jwest@classiccmp.org on Fri, Oct 10, 2003 at 20:14:42 %z References: <006b01c38f5a$60b7e940$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <20031010212338.GC350776@MrPomeroy2> On 2003.10.10 20:14 Jay West wrote: > I am looking for full source code for a *VERY* tiny C compiler The C compiler from UNIX Version 6? The PCC compiler from 2.9BSD UNIX? > Can anyone suggest one or know where > the source might by laying around? This stuff is available via http://www.tuhs.org/ go into the archive, PDP-11/Distributions/research/Dennis_v6 and PDP-11/Distributions/ucb/2.9BSD > I thought I had heard ages ago about some > microcomputer C compilers being well under 32K. This stuff (well, at least V6) was used on 16 bit machines with less then 64 kB of RAM. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From arcarlini at iee.org Fri Oct 10 16:47:05 2003 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:26 2005 Subject: Multi-CPU Qbus VAXen In-Reply-To: <4809.4.20.168.238.1065818133.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <003601c38f78$0c0a1260$5b01a8c0@athlon> > AFAIK, the KA650 and KA655 do not have the support for > multiple processors on Qbus that was present in the KA630. > The KA630 (MicroVAX II) had two features for this: > > 1) The bus interface could be configured to be a bus requester rather > than the system bus arbiter. This has to be done on all CPUs other > than the first. (Note that the VAX 11/780 was also capable of this, > as discovered and exploited by George Goble). It may be, as you say, that the KA65x cannot do this. The KA655 TM seems to be silent here - or at least it is in the sections I quickly read just now. The bus interface is handled by the CQBIC, but I don't have that particular manual handy right now. If the CQBIC can do this, then I expect that most of the CVAX MicroVAX 3000 Series machines can do it (and if it cannot, then presumably none of them can). > 2) Each processor has a "doorbell" register to allow other processors > to interrupt it. This I think it does have - at least it has a register called IPCR. I don't have the KA630 User Guide (*sniff* - someone must have one they can scan!) so I cannot compare terminology directly, but I think this is what the doorbell register is. Since I don't know of anything that uses it, finding example code to verify this may be somewhat hard! -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Oct 10 16:39:55 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:26 2005 Subject: Am I seeing things? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20031010113821.02e65d90@pop-server.socal.rr.com > References: <3.0.6.32.20031006154709.007ba540@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <00b001c38c3d$d4fdc380$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031010173955.007b9970@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 11:39 AM 10/10/03 -0700, you wrote: > >> I've replied to a couple of people looking for things and NONE of them >>has ever responded so I seldom bother any more. >> >> Joe > >Did you reply to the person or the list? Directly to the person and SOMETIMES to the list if it was relevent. Joe > > > From TRASH3 at splab.cas.neu.edu Fri Oct 10 17:04:17 2003 From: TRASH3 at splab.cas.neu.edu (TRASH3@splab.cas.neu.edu) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:26 2005 Subject: RZ26-E 1.05Gbyte SCSI Hard Drive Message-ID: <031010180417.1257c@splab.cas.neu.edu> Tried to send you email about where to get a drive, but access denied for mail. If you are still looking, contact me. Joe Heck From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Fri Oct 10 17:09:15 2003 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:26 2005 Subject: TinyC, port to HP References: <006b01c38f5a$60b7e940$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <3F8701D0.7080904@jetnet.ab.ca> <00f501c38f65$2c576620$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <3F872E0B.1020908@jetnet.ab.ca> Jay West wrote: > It was written.... > >>C requires a stack pointer and a index register.Offhand I don't think >>your hardware supports that. > > I don't see why that couldn't be implemented in software, or simply put into > custom microcode for the 2100. However, in actuality, I will likely be doing > this (If I take up the project) on a 21MX/E. Well the computer in the hand is worth two at e-bay. :) Since you have the hardware, good luck with the project. > Jay West > > --- > [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > > From dbetz at xlisper.mv.com Fri Oct 10 17:17:28 2003 From: dbetz at xlisper.mv.com (David Betz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:26 2005 Subject: TinyC, port to HP In-Reply-To: <3F871C6E.5A05A372@msm.umr.edu> Message-ID: <88AEFF2B-FB6F-11D7-88EE-0003937B82DA@xlisper.mv.com> Hendrix always seems to get the credit for Small C but the original compiler was written by Ron Cain and published in an early issue of Dr. Dobbs Journal. The earlier version by Ron Cain was quite a bit smaller than Hendrix version. On Friday, October 10, 2003, at 04:54 PM, jim wrote: > > > >> >>> J.C. Wren wrote: >>>> A number of C compilers on small architectures have solved this >>>> problem >> by >>>> having 2, sometimes 4, distinct compiling phases, and passing data >> through >>>> temporary files. This gives you a lot more leeway in code space. >>>> I've >> seen >>>> preprocessor pass, tokenization pass, code generator pass, and in >>>> some >> cases, >>>> the 4th pass is the assembler (which I generally prefer over >>>> direct-to-assembly, since you can insert a user-written processing >>>> phase >> > > I ported Hendrix tiny C from my Imsai (CP/M version 1.4 actually) to a > mini > computer that had no c support in the early 80's when it first came > out. > > If I recall it came in two passes as mentioned, and then an assembly, > then > link. > > There was a c library support as well. > > I actually didn't to go assembly for the mini, but actually to an > interpreted > language like Java uses now. I think I had to implement around 30 > opcodes > total to implement the instructions used by the hendrix compiler. > that means > that of all the 8080 instructions that the original hendrix compiler > emitted, > there > were only 30 total used. > > It supports a 16 bit address space natively, so would produce good > code on > your HP. > > A typical pass was as follows: > > run C0 on the c source > run C1 on the result of C0 > merge the source for the clib (which was earlier run thru C0 and C1) > with > this output of C1. > > Assemble the whole mess with an assembler that assembled to a > relocatable module. > > take relocatable module, and use load command to suck into interpreter > on target machine (which was written in assembly). > > I don't know about running in 32k. That probably would be tight to > run the compiler. I think the full C lib was around 24k long, but it > may > have been smaller. Since i linked in the whole mess w/o any way to > pick and choose what was used vs what was not, it was allways > there regardless. A better linker and better way of merging in the > clib could fix that. > > the machine I had had a symbolic assembler that was easy to gen up > the assembler used here w/o any work so I didn't optimize that at > all. > > As to optimization, you do have to do some duplicate elimination, > but other than that, it produced pretty good code. > > most of the work on the hendrix c compiler was to the C1 pass, > which emitted the 8080 instructions. I don't recall whether the > Hendrix Tiny C was orignally for the 8080 / CP/M environment, > or whether the published version was a port from some other > environment, but the one I worked from ran on either CP/M 1.4 > or 2 or 3x cpm's. the clib was pretty brain dead. > > Jim > From donm at cts.com Fri Oct 10 17:21:58 2003 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:26 2005 Subject: anyone notice this gorgeous piece? In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20031010100032.0422de78@mail.ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 10 Oct 2003, Tom Uban wrote: > At 10:16 AM 10/10/2003 +0100, Alex White wrote: > > >On Wednesday 08 Oct 2003 6:10 pm, Tom Uban wrote: > > > I also have a Fujitsu M2284K drive which has the tinted > > > plastic HDA cover, so that you can see the guts of the > > > 14" drive assembly. > > > > > > http://www.ubanproductions.com/m2284k.html > > > > > > --tom > > > > > > >Sweet, could you give me an insight into how the shock indicator works? > > > >alex/melt > > There are both tilt and shock style indicators. They are pretty simple > devices. I believe that the tilt ones just have a sticky surface and > some red particles which if tilted get stuck to the sticky surface in > order to indicate the tilted condition. The shock sensors are similar, > but must have some sort of membrane which ruptures, allowing the particles > to flow onto the sticky surface, or something. > > --tom > There was/is another variety that used a hard ball that was held in place on an indent by a spring. The spring was chosen such that an impact up to so many G's would retain the ball in position under a blow in a lateral (to the spring/ball axis) direction. The units could be used for either vertical or lateral shock sensing making allowance for the weight of the ball when used to sense vertical shock. Very crudely -------------\ W - indent o - ball - / - spring / / - don From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Oct 10 17:28:11 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:26 2005 Subject: Sota 386i card ? Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031010182811.007bb4a0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Found one of these in a scrap pile today. I'm thinking of stuffing it into my old PC to get a bit better performace without permanently altering the PC. Can anyone give me more information about it? What are the large connectors at the top and bottom of the card for? What is the PLCC socket for? Do I need drivers for the card? etc Joe PS I just noticed that even though they call it a 386i it actually has an intel 8086-2 CPU. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Oct 10 17:32:58 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:26 2005 Subject: CORRECTION: 386si card was: Sota 386i card ? Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031010183258.007ba930@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Oops! make that 386 SI not 386 I. Joe > >Found one of these in a scrap pile today. I'm thinking of stuffing it into my old PC to get a bit better performace without permanently altering the PC. Can anyone give me more information about it? What are the large connectors at the top and bottom of the card for? What is the PLCC socket for? Do I need drivers for the card? etc > > Joe > >PS I just noticed that even though they call it a 386i it actually has an intel 8086-2 CPU. From tothwolf at concentric.net Fri Oct 10 18:06:05 2003 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:26 2005 Subject: Googlers In-Reply-To: <10310100636.ZM24000@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <10310100636.ZM24000@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 10 Oct 2003, Pete Turnbull wrote: > On Oct 9, 22:16, Tothwolf wrote: > > > Or...maybe replacing the From: email address in the archive emails > > with the list email address hasn't worked as well as folks thought it > > might? > > Ah, does that mean I'm not the only person who doesn't like that? It > just looks wrong to me, putting some other address against my name, and > I'm sure that's part of the cause of so many non-subscriber replies > being sent to the list (I'm sure most are meant to go to the original > poster). I didn't care for it from the start, but I didn't mention it on-list because it was only supposed to be temporary. It seems like *tons* of emails that are meant to go to someone privately are ending up on the list because of the addresses being changes, which IMHO is a really bad thing...I don't know of any other email lists that are doing this, probably because of the type of problems we are having with it here. > The intent was to prevent address harvesting, but I'd prefer my address > was just obfuscated in some way (maybe split up). Wasn't the > address-replacing meant to be temporary, until a better way was found to > obfuscate the sender address? Actually, I don't care if it's not even > obfuscated, but I know others do. There are tons of ways to defeat harvesters. Some options include: * Obfuscate the address somehow. Two common methods are removing/ modifying non-alphanumeric characters ('@', '.', etc), and/or using HTML '&' escape sequences to create the address (not 100% reliable, but defeats a large number of harvesters). * Present a different (or no) From: email address depending on whether or not the person accessing the archive has authenticated themselves. * Create a MD5 hash of the email address and link it to a CGI script that resolves the hash into a real address via a database once some sort of authentication is done. * Replace the email address with an image and link it and/or the name of the sender to a CGI script that can authenticate the person, which once done will display the original email address and/or message in it's original form. Two fairly simple ways of authenticating the person are: * Authenticate the person with their mailman email address/password. * Ask the user to type in some disfigured text that is rendered in an image (to defeat OCR software). Both of these authentication types could be implemented, with the first having an option to store a long term cookie so the subscriber does not have to constantly re-enter their password. The second method could simply redirect the person to a generated URL that will expire after a set amount of time. Of course...maybe wpoison should be linked in somehow too? ;) ...And what is up with the new list software changing the To: address? "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" -Toth From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Fri Oct 10 17:44:28 2003 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:26 2005 Subject: TinyC, port to HP References: <88AEFF2B-FB6F-11D7-88EE-0003937B82DA@xlisper.mv.com> Message-ID: <3F87364C.7020902@jetnet.ab.ca> David Betz wrote: > Hendrix always seems to get the credit for Small C but the original > compiler was written by Ron Cain and published in an early issue of Dr. > Dobbs Journal. The earlier version by Ron Cain was quite a bit smaller > than Hendrix version. I found the original version easyier to understand and change. The Hendrix if remember right also had more copywrite protection than the original. I allways found it intersting that the 8080 instruction set had to used rather than the 8086 instruction set on the PC.The 8086 instruction set seems to Pascal rather than C based.I don't think C/UNIX would have developed as fast as it did if did not have a well designed machine like the PDP-11.(my only gripe is bytes are not 9 bits wide ) Ben. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Oct 10 17:01:52 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:26 2005 Subject: anyone notice this gorgeous piece? In-Reply-To: from "Vintage Computer Festival" at Oct 7, 3 09:26:22 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 462 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20031010/d4e99be7/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Oct 10 19:15:27 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:26 2005 Subject: ASR33 Teletype interfacing In-Reply-To: <1065732747.15567.62.camel@linux.local> from "Tom Jennings" at Oct 9, 3 01:52:27 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1737 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20031011/fca4cc4a/attachment.ksh From pat at purdueriots.com Fri Oct 10 19:41:38 2003 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:26 2005 Subject: Multi-CPU Qbus VAXen In-Reply-To: <4809.4.20.168.238.1065818133.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 10 Oct 2003, Eric Smith wrote: > 1) The bus interface could be configured to be a bus requester rather > than the system bus arbiter. This has to be done on all CPUs other > than the first. (Note that the VAX 11/780 was also capable of this, > as discovered and exploited by George Goble). Don't forget that Mike Marsh also was involved in this, and did most of the hardware work on the "Dual-VAX". As someone who has the pleasure of working for him, it seems like he doesn't really get enough credit for being the co-inventor of SMP Unix... Well, that's my $0.02 Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Oct 10 20:32:29 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:26 2005 Subject: Emulex/Persyst Mono II card ? Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031010213229.007d7d20@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I found this today in a pile of scrap. It appears to be an 8 bit ISA video card for a PC. I'm guessing it's for the monochrome video monitor. Does anyone know if it supports graphics or not, or anything else about it? I found this on the web.It has the jumper settings but little else. (This one does not have the parts for the printer port). Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Oct 10 20:38:44 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:26 2005 Subject: 12 bit S-100 memory card ???? Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031010213844.007f5c20@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Found this in a pile of scrap boards today. It looks like a S-100 memory board but has 2 banks of 12 memory chips. The chips are AM9016EPCs which I think are 16k x 1 DRAMS. Also there's no 5 volt regulator or address jumpers or switches. It appears to be a 32k x 12 bit memory card for a S-100 system that has built in 5 regulation and at a fix address. Anybody have any idea what system it's for? The only markings on the card are what looks like an overlapping C and H with the opening on the C facing down instead of to the right. The H is below and to the left of the C. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Oct 10 21:16:56 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:26 2005 Subject: intel 3621 specs? Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031010221656.007bfd90@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I found a pile of NOS intel D3621s today. I THINK these are Bipolar PROMs but I'm not sure and I can't find anything on them on my manuals or on the net. Can anyone help? BTW most of them are dated 1975. Joe From bill_mcdermith at yahoo.com Fri Oct 10 23:41:24 2003 From: bill_mcdermith at yahoo.com (Bill McDermith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:26 2005 Subject: What HP OS could it be?? In-Reply-To: <014d01c38f6f$b2dbd8c0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> References: <91B45B18-FB5F-11D7-955E-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> <014d01c38f6f$b2dbd8c0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <3F8789F4.1080703@yahoo.com> > > >>Ron Hudson wrote: >> >> >Jay West wrote: > > >>What OS was I running? >> >> >My initial guess was DOS, but I'd suspect HP's standalone RJE station with >processing happening on a mainframe somewhere else. I actually seem to have >a pretty extensive library of paper tapes and manuals for the standalone RJE >system. > Could also be RTE-II... 2100/79xx disk,etc. Had a batch/spool manager like DOS/DOS-M so you could spool cards from the card reader and print batch output on the LP. >The boot loader was stored at (i think) 102077 (punch this in the >switch register and hit run???) > > >102077 is generally used as the T register display upon a "good halt", not a >starting address. So when you ran the boot loader, if it loaded correctly, >you would get a 102077. > Right. That's the halt code -- actually, the 2100 displays the last instruction, which in this case is the halt instruction (1020xx)... Depending on how much core memory was in the machine, the boot loader started at x7700 octal, where x was set depending on the core size. For a 32K machine, x was 7 giving a starting program counter of 77700 for the paper tape reader boot and 77740 for the disk boot... (but you knew this part, Jay :-) >Jay West > > From eric at brouhaha.com Sat Oct 11 00:35:19 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:26 2005 Subject: 12 bit S-100 memory card ???? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20031010213844.007f5c20@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20031010213844.007f5c20@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <2062.4.20.168.158.1065850519.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Joe wrote: > Found this in a pile of scrap boards today. It looks like a S-100 > memory > board but has 2 banks of 12 memory chips. The chips are AM9016EPCs which I > think are 16k x 1 DRAMS. Also there's no 5 volt regulator or address > jumpers or switches. It appears to be a 32k x 12 bit memory card for a They may be physically arranged as two rows of 12, but it seems likely that theyd be wired as three banks of eight, making it a 48K DRAM board. Have you verified the data line wiring? From rhudson at cnonline.net Sat Oct 11 00:47:18 2003 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:26 2005 Subject: What HP OS could it be?? In-Reply-To: <3F8789F4.1080703@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <603AAF10-FBAE-11D7-A8FB-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> On Friday, October 10, 2003, at 11:41 PM, Bill McDermith wrote: >> >> >>> Ron Hudson wrote: >>> >> Jay West wrote: >> >>> What OS was I running? >>> >> My initial guess was DOS, but I'd suspect HP's standalone RJE station >> with >> processing happening on a mainframe somewhere else. I actually seem >> to have >> a pretty extensive library of paper tapes and manuals for the >> standalone RJE >> system. >> > Could also be RTE-II... 2100/79xx disk,etc. Had a batch/spool manager > like DOS/DOS-M > so you could spool cards from the card reader and print batch output > on the LP. Well the algol manual I used was HP's, The plotter library, hp. I don't think it was a remote job entry of any kind. > >> The boot loader was stored at (i think) 102077 (punch this in the >> switch register and hit run???) >> >> 102077 is generally used as the T register display upon a "good >> halt", not a >> starting address. So when you ran the boot loader, if it loaded >> correctly, >> you would get a 102077. >> > Right. That's the halt code -- actually, the 2100 displays the last > instruction, which in this > case is the halt instruction (1020xx)... > > Depending on how much core memory was in the machine, the boot loader > started at x7700 octal, where > x was set depending on the core size. For a 32K machine, x was 7 > giving a starting program counter > of 77700 for the paper tape reader boot and 77740 for the disk boot... > (but you knew this part, Jay :-) > >> Jay West >> There was a fatfinger that was about 30 "instructions" long, That read about a 3 foot paper tape, then that read the Hard drive... >> > From vcf at siconic.com Sat Oct 11 02:29:30 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:26 2005 Subject: VCF 6.0 is this weekend! Message-ID: Vintage Computer Festival Saturday, October 11 through Sunday, October 12 10am until 6pm Daily Computer History Museum 1401 N. Shoreline Blvd., Mountain View, California http://www.vintage.org/2003/main/ This is the last VCF 6.0 update. Be sure to come out to the Vintage Computer Festival this weekend or you will miss the best VCF ever! We've had some last minute schedule changes and additions to the speaker schedule. The schedule is as follows: Saturday, October 11 Time Speaker Topic -------- ------------------- -------------------------------------- 10:00 AM Evan Koblentz History of the PDA 11:00 AM Zbigniew Stachniak Microcomputing in Canada 1973-1983 11:30 AM Christine Finn Collecting the Collectors 12:00 PM Len Shustek Keynote Speech 12:30 PM Lynne & Bill Jolitz The Symmetric 375 and Berkeley Unix 1:00 PM Xerox Alto Panel Xerox Alto 30th Birthday Bash! Sunday, October 12 Time Speaker Topic -------- ------------------- -------------------------------------- 10:00 AM Joey Tuttle A Personal History of the IBM 5100 11:00 AM Forth Panel Using Forth with Vintage Computers 11:30 AM Todd Fischer IMSAI History & the New IMSAI Series 2 12:00 PM Jef Raskin The Humane Interface 12:30 PM Sellam Ismail VCF Shenanigans 1:00 PM Bruce Damer Joys and Trials of Computer Collecting The Xerox Alto panel has expanded, with Charles Simonyi, Peter Deutsch, and Dave Robson being added to the panel. This is going to be an incredible reunion of Xerox PARC luminaries, not to mention the amazing showing of numerous Xerox Alto and D-machines that are on display in the "Groove Lounge". Come help celebrate the 30th birthday of the Xerox Alto with cake and maybe even a deliciously nerdy birthday cheer. Also, be sure to make it to the Computer History Museum book sale on Saturday at 2:00pm. Museum members will be allowed advanced admission to the booksale before the rest of the public. More information about the book sale can be found here: http://www.computerhistory.org/events/vcf6/ Please check out the carpool message board in the VCF 6.0 BBS to see if there are folks in need of a ride that you may be able to accomodate. http://www.vintage.org/2003/main/bbs.php?directive=index:VCF60:CARPOOL:0 Here are directions to the Computer History Museum: http://www.vintage.org/2003/main/directions.php I'll see you at VCF 6.0! Best regards, Sellam Ismail Producer Vintage Computer Festival -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From ian_primus at yahoo.com Sat Oct 11 07:56:30 2003 From: ian_primus at yahoo.com (Ian Primus) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:26 2005 Subject: ASR33 Teletype interfacing In-Reply-To: <00a201c38e6e$ba39c200$317ecd80@chem.buffalo.edu> Message-ID: <559D6F64-FBEA-11D7-86CD-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> On Thursday, October 9, 2003, at 10:07 AM, James M. Walker wrote: > Hello, > as for the "Line or Local" issue, you stated that the local side worked > fine. As in when > you type on the keys it prints what you type. > > A rather simple test is to take a "fresh" 9 volt battery, find the two > "RX > lines and connect > them to the battery, with the TTY in line mode the basket should > quiet, if > it does, then > connect the keyboard leads between one side of the battery and the > "RX" line > and try > typing again. If that works then your interface is lacking in the > ability to > provide the > 20/60 MA required by the TTY. > > Jim > WB2FCN I found a 9 volt battery in my workshop, and tested it on a multimeter, and it came out to be 9.02 volts. Perfect! Then, I connected some scraps of telephone wire to the barrier strip on the teletype, and hooked the RX lines to the battery. It didn't help, so I switched the wires on the battery, and that worked. The teletype stopped "running open". Typing produced no effect. Then I unhooked one of the leads from the battery, twisted it together with one of the TX lines, and connected the other TX line to the radio battery. Once again, the teletype was quiet, and this time, typing produced output on the page. It looks like everything is working then, I just need to build an interface that supplies the proper loop current. While I had the battery connected, I typed three lines in Line mode to test it, then I switched over to local mode and typed a couple lines, to make sure that it did, in fact, still work in local mode. It did. But, when I turned off the teletype, and went to unhook the battery, it was hot! I unhooked the leads and tested it again on the multimeter - 8.07 volts. I had no idea that the teletype used that much power just for the current loop interface. 20mA isn't very much, but I guess for a little radio battery it is. At least I know now that the teletype works properly, now all I need is a better interface. Thanks for the help! Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com From ian_primus at yahoo.com Sat Oct 11 08:04:11 2003 From: ian_primus at yahoo.com (Ian Primus) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:26 2005 Subject: ASR33 Teletype interfacing In-Reply-To: <1065732747.15567.62.camel@linux.local> Message-ID: <67FFB9E5-FBEB-11D7-86CD-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> On Thursday, October 9, 2003, at 04:52 PM, Tom Jennings wrote: >> I have been attempting to get my ASR33 teletype connected to something >> and communicating, but so far I have not been successful. I have built >> the interface here : >> http://www.daedalus.co.nz/~don/computing/20mahack.html > > > It wont work, sorry... > Somehow I'm not surprised. Something told me that it was too simple to work properly. > Teletypes are inductive loads. Though they only want 20 mils, the > voltage needs to be high to get the initial magnet pull-in (basic RL > theory). ASR33 loops were generally run at 100V or so, but I run my > Model 28 at 14V, with non-perfect error rate, and I don't use the > keyboard. I take it that the voltage isn't that crucial, just the current? > The keyboard and printer are IN SERIES. If you hit keys while it's > printing you foul it up. Normal. What about on a full duplex machine? Is it the same, or are they separate? > Because it's inductive, it makes a spike when yuo turn the voltage off. > You need to suppress this with a diode, a resistor and capacitor, for > example. > > They're not subtle interfaces, and weren't meant to be. > > If you just want to print, you can rig up a power transistor, two > resistors, a diode, and a high-voltage DC power supply to do the trick, > and drive it from the serial port. > > If you want to receieve also, you can use another transistor and > resistor to pick off the change in loop current that happens when you > press keys which open the loop, and drive the serial port. > > I've done one of these fairly recently, and if poked with a > not-too-sharp stick, I'll scan the schematic and pu on my website. *poke* If it's not too much trouble, I'd like to see it. From what I have heard, there are lots of ways to do this, and i would be very interested to see how you did it. Thanks! Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com From bshannon at tiac.net Sat Oct 11 09:25:46 2003 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:26 2005 Subject: Erasing Eprom by using UV-Led References: <000c01c38eaa$01f62940$c3fdfea9@adrian> Message-ID: <3F8812EA.3050504@tiac.net> Hello Adrian, I used an LED I got at a Ham-fest, so I'm unsure of its exact model number. I beleive its made by Cree however, and it is a 'true' UV led with very little visible emission. I never measured the minimum time needed to erase the EPROM, I'd left it running overnight, so it was erased in about 12 hours, perhaps much less is needed. The LED was about 3 cm from the EPROM window. I have not tested other EPROM devices, but I easily can. I'll try a test with a 87C52 over the weekend. If you want a combined programmer and eraser, why not use FLASH chips rather than EPROM? Adrian Haunstetter wrote: >Hello Mr. Shannon, > >in the topic "A way to erase OTP components?" I read that you succeeded to erase windowed 27C512 using a UV-Led. >Because I'm about to build a combined Programmer/Eraser, where erasing shall be done with UV-Led, I like to ask you about your experiences. >What type of Led do you use? >How long do you need to erase? >What was the distance between Led and Chip? >Did you made Test with other devices? >I hope you take a little bit of your time to answer me. > >With best regards > >Adrian Haunstetter > From bshannon at tiac.net Sat Oct 11 09:28:40 2003 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:26 2005 Subject: Super Elf goes for over $300 References: Message-ID: <3F881398.2010707@tiac.net> I do, ok? Vintage Computer Festival wrote: >On Thu, 9 Oct 2003, Keys wrote: > >>http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2756553273 >> > >Um, John? > >I don't see how all these postings are relevant. > From bshannon at tiac.net Sat Oct 11 09:30:34 2003 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:26 2005 Subject: Super Elf goes for over $300 References: <007901c38edf$b3a2fbc0$4408dd40@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <3F88140A.4040107@tiac.net> I have often jumped into auctions posted to the list. Its easy to miss an interesting item on eBay and having someone call attention to a good item is a perfectly valid use for this list. Keys wrote: >Just letting folks see what some of the items are going for since that >questions pops up now and then when someone on the list is thinking about >buying or selling an item. Sorry for wasting your time but that is why I try >to state in the subject line what the message is about. I will refrain from >sending anymore to the list. >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Vintage Computer Festival" >To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > >Cc: "cctech@classiccmp" >Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2003 9:37 PM >Subject: Re: Super Elf goes for over $300 > > >>On Thu, 9 Oct 2003, Keys wrote: >> >>>http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2756553273 >>> >>Um, John? >> >>I don't see how all these postings are relevant. >> >>-- >> >>Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer >> >Festival > >>-------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >---- > >>International Man of Intrigue and Danger >> >http://www.vintage.org > >>[ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage >> >mputers ] > >>[ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at >> >http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > >> > > From bshannon at tiac.net Sat Oct 11 09:31:55 2003 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:26 2005 Subject: Super Elf goes for over $300 References: Message-ID: <3F88145B.6060205@tiac.net> Who's pissing who off here? Vintage Computer Festival wrote: >On Thu, 9 Oct 2003, Keys wrote: > >>Just letting folks see what some of the items are going for since that >>questions pops up now and then when someone on the list is thinking about >>buying or selling an item. Sorry for wasting your time but that is why I try >>to state in the subject line what the message is about. I will refrain from >>sending anymore to the list. >> > >I don't know. It just seems to me that if anyone actually wanted to see >what was happening on eBay they could just type in the URL themselves. > >The list is just pissing me off tonight. Stop it. > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Oct 11 11:03:37 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:26 2005 Subject: WTB: Pro-Log programmer parts Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031011120337.007db100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Hi all, I picked up a couple of Pro-Log M900, M920 and M980 programmers lately. I want to burn some BiPolar PROMs and I need a Pro-Log PM 9048 "Intel Generic" personality module. It will look something like this . I'm also looking for other Pro-Log parts and I have parts to trade so if you have anything that you're willing to part with send me a list. Here's more pictures on my Pro-Log stuff. No text or descriptions yet, just pictures. Joe From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat Oct 11 11:12:56 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:26 2005 Subject: 12 bit S-100 memory card ???? In-Reply-To: <2062.4.20.168.158.1065850519.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20031010213844.007f5c20@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <2062.4.20.168.158.1065850519.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <20031011091043.F84198@newshell.lmi.net> On Fri, 10 Oct 2003, Eric Smith wrote: > Joe wrote: > > Found this in a pile of scrap boards today. It looks like a S-100 > > memory > > board but has 2 banks of 12 memory chips. The chips are AM9016EPCs which I > > think are 16k x 1 DRAMS. Also there's no 5 volt regulator or address > > jumpers or switches. It appears to be a 32k x 12 bit memory card for a > They may be physically arranged as two rows of 12, but it seems likely > that theyd be wired as three banks of eight, making it a 48K DRAM board. > Have you verified the data line wiring? One of the earliest RAM cards that I had for my first 5150 used 12 chip rows, in order to provide ECC memory. "Boulder Creek Systems"? From waltje at pdp11.nl Sat Oct 11 12:19:26 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:26 2005 Subject: ASR33 Teletype interfacing In-Reply-To: <67FFB9E5-FBEB-11D7-86CD-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 11 Oct 2003, Ian Primus wrote: > > If you want to receieve also, you can use another transistor and > > resistor to pick off the change in loop current that happens when you > > press keys which open the loop, and drive the serial port. > > > > I've done one of these fairly recently, and if poked with a > > not-too-sharp stick, I'll scan the schematic and pu on my website. I found a 20mA interface schematic in my pile of docs.. I put it up on http://www.pdp11.nl/Hardware/20mA.pdf Cheers, Fred -- Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist Visit the VAXlab Project at http://www.pdp11.nl/VAXlab/ Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Sunnyvale, CA, USA From aek at spies.com Sat Oct 11 12:25:37 2003 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:26 2005 Subject: intel 3621 specs? Message-ID: <200310111725.h9BHPbAs000582@spies.com> 256*4 +------+ A6 |1 16| Vcc A5 |2 15| A7 A4 |3 14| CE2/ A3 |4 13| CE1/ A0 |5 12| O1 A1 |6 11| O2 A2 |7 10| O3 GND|8 9| O4 +------+ Signetics MMI TI Harris Raytheon AMD National Intel --------- --- -- ------ -------- --- -------- ----- TS 82S129 (50ns) 6301-1 24S10 7611-5 29661 27S21 74S287 3621 82S129A(27ns) 63S141 - 7611A - 27S21A - - From chejmw at acsu.buffalo.edu Sat Oct 11 12:52:36 2003 From: chejmw at acsu.buffalo.edu (James M. Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:26 2005 Subject: ASR33 Teletype interfacing References: <559D6F64-FBEA-11D7-86CD-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3F884364.2B4301A3@acsu.buffalo.edu> Hi Ian and list, Sorry there Ian, I should have mentioned that this technique is only for testing purposes and also that the battery gets "HOT". This is an old trick I used while doing field setups and testing of Shio-To-Shore sites that used ARQ and FEC with ASR-32/33 teletypes. The 20 MA loop can be connected to your interface as described previously. All that is needed is a 115v primary to 115 v secondary transformer, a full wave bridge to rectify the AC and around 35 - 60 uF cap for filtering. All this output is fed to the collector of an MJE-340 NPN transistor emitter, the collector connection goes to your ASR-(*) TTY. The base goes to the output from the tx terminals on the interface. I think I have an Orcad drawing of the circuit if you would like it. As I recall it is an RS-232 to 20 MA interface and also includes an opto-isolator in the circuit. However at least you did get to verify that your TTY is indeed working correctly! Good "Oh! Jim Real Radio in Buffalo Ian Primus wrote: > > On Thursday, October 9, 2003, at 10:07 AM, James M. Walker wrote: > > > Hello, > > as for the "Line or Local" issue, you stated that the local side worked > > fine. As in when > > you type on the keys it prints what you type. > > > > A rather simple test is to take a "fresh" 9 volt battery, find the two > > "RX > > lines and connect > > them to the battery, with the TTY in line mode the basket should > > quiet, if > > it does, then > > connect the keyboard leads between one side of the battery and the > > "RX" line > > and try > > typing again. If that works then your interface is lacking in the > > ability to > > provide the > > 20/60 MA required by the TTY. > > > > Jim > > WB2FCN > > I found a 9 volt battery in my workshop, and tested it on a multimeter, > and it came out to be 9.02 volts. Perfect! Then, I connected some > scraps of telephone wire to the barrier strip on the teletype, and > hooked the RX lines to the battery. It didn't help, so I switched the > wires on the battery, and that worked. The teletype stopped "running > open". Typing produced no effect. Then I unhooked one of the leads from > the battery, twisted it together with one of the TX lines, and > connected the other TX line to the radio battery. Once again, the > teletype was quiet, and this time, typing produced output on the page. > It looks like everything is working then, I just need to build an > interface that supplies the proper loop current. While I had the > battery connected, I typed three lines in Line mode to test it, then I > switched over to local mode and typed a couple lines, to make sure that > it did, in fact, still work in local mode. It did. But, when I turned > off the teletype, and went to unhook the battery, it was hot! I > unhooked the leads and tested it again on the multimeter - 8.07 volts. > I had no idea that the teletype used that much power just for the > current loop interface. 20mA isn't very much, but I guess for a little > radio battery it is. At least I know now that the teletype works > properly, now all I need is a better interface. Thanks for the help! > > Ian Primus > ian_primus@yahoo.com From chejmw at acsu.buffalo.edu Sat Oct 11 13:07:55 2003 From: chejmw at acsu.buffalo.edu (James M. Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:26 2005 Subject: WTB: Pro-Log programmer parts References: <3.0.6.32.20031011120337.007db100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3F8846FB.E683F2A2@acsu.buffalo.edu> Hi Joe and List, Nice photos, I own the Pro-Log 980 similar to the one in your photo. Nice unit easy to use, mine came with the UV eraser also, I am still looking for the full manual that describes it, the operation, and also all the adapters. Good Show! Jim WB2FCN Joe wrote: > > Hi all, > > I picked up a couple of Pro-Log M900, M920 and M980 programmers lately. > I want to burn some BiPolar PROMs and I need a Pro-Log PM 9048 "Intel > Generic" personality module. It will look something like this > . I'm also looking > for other Pro-Log parts and I have parts to trade so if you have anything > that you're willing to part with send me a list. Here's more pictures on > my Pro-Log stuff. No text or descriptions yet, just pictures. > > > Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Oct 11 13:12:29 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:26 2005 Subject: intel 3621 specs? In-Reply-To: <200310111725.h9BHPbAs000582@spies.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031011141229.007ec100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Thanks Al! I thought they were Biolar PROMs and I was hoping that they were compatible with the Harris 7611. (that's what's used for the boot ROMs in the HP 1000). Now I just need to find the "Intel Generic" plug-in for the Pro-Log programmer and I'm in business. Joe At 10:25 AM 10/11/03 -0700, you wrote: > >256*4 > +------+ >A6 |1 16| Vcc >A5 |2 15| A7 >A4 |3 14| CE2/ >A3 |4 13| CE1/ >A0 |5 12| O1 >A1 |6 11| O2 >A2 |7 10| O3 >GND|8 9| O4 > +------+ > > Signetics MMI TI Harris Raytheon AMD National Intel > --------- --- -- ------ -------- --- -------- ----- >TS 82S129 (50ns) 6301-1 24S10 7611-5 29661 27S21 74S287 3621 > 82S129A(27ns) 63S141 - 7611A - 27S21A - - > > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Oct 11 13:18:53 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:26 2005 Subject: ASR33 Teletype interfacing In-Reply-To: References: <67FFB9E5-FBEB-11D7-86CD-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031011141853.007ec760@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Fred, I tried to access the website and got an error stating that it could not be found. I tried to access the domain itself and I got an error stating that it's not configured yet and to try again later. Joe At 07:19 PM 10/11/03 +0200, you wrote: >On Sat, 11 Oct 2003, Ian Primus wrote: > >> > If you want to receieve also, you can use another transistor and >> > resistor to pick off the change in loop current that happens when you >> > press keys which open the loop, and drive the serial port. >> > >> > I've done one of these fairly recently, and if poked with a >> > not-too-sharp stick, I'll scan the schematic and pu on my website. > >I found a 20mA interface schematic in my pile of docs.. I put it >up on http://www.pdp11.nl/Hardware/20mA.pdf > >Cheers, > Fred >-- >Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist >Visit the VAXlab Project at http://www.pdp11.nl/VAXlab/ >Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ >Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Sunnyvale, CA, USA > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Oct 11 14:46:51 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:26 2005 Subject: ASR33 Teletype interfacing In-Reply-To: <559D6F64-FBEA-11D7-86CD-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> from "Ian Primus" at Oct 11, 3 08:56:30 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1049 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20031011/e0e6228f/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Oct 11 14:55:14 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:26 2005 Subject: intel 3621 specs? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20031010221656.007bfd90@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> from "Joe" at Oct 10, 3 10:16:56 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 749 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20031011/10d4a8f7/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Oct 11 14:35:05 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:26 2005 Subject: Acorn Econet In-Reply-To: <10310100723.ZM24034@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> from "Pete Turnbull" at Oct 10, 3 07:23:57 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 850 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20031011/e2957544/attachment.ksh From arcarlini at iee.org Sat Oct 11 15:33:32 2003 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:26 2005 Subject: ASR33 Teletype interfacing In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20031011141853.007ec760@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <003101c39036$f03c6730$5b01a8c0@athlon> Must have been a temporary blip, as it's there now. -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Joe > Sent: Saturday, October 11, 2003 7:19 PM > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Cc: waltje@pdp11.nl > Subject: Re: ASR33 Teletype interfacing > > > Fred, > > I tried to access the website and got an error stating that > it could not be found. I tried to access the domain itself > and I got an error stating that it's not configured yet and > to try again later. > > Joe > > > At 07:19 PM 10/11/03 +0200, you wrote: > >On Sat, 11 Oct 2003, Ian Primus wrote: > > > >> > If you want to receieve also, you can use another transistor and > >> > resistor to pick off the change in loop current that > happens when > >> > you press keys which open the loop, and drive the serial port. > >> > > >> > I've done one of these fairly recently, and if poked with a > >> > not-too-sharp stick, I'll scan the schematic and pu on > my website. > > > >I found a 20mA interface schematic in my pile of docs.. I > put it up on > >http://www.pdp11.nl/Hardware/20mA.pdf > > > >Cheers, > > Fred > >-- > >Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) > Collector/Archivist > >Visit the VAXlab Project at > http://www.pdp11.nl/VAXlab/ > >Visit the Archives at > http://www.pdp11.nl/ > >Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / > Sunnyvale, CA, USA > > > > > > From jimgeneva at earthlink.net Sat Oct 11 16:08:26 2003 From: jimgeneva at earthlink.net (James C. Geneva) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:26 2005 Subject: Apple IIe KB IC (AY-3600) datasheet requested. Message-ID: <3F887149.9A5CB3F4@earthlink.net> you know that this 40 pin chip was made by general instruments right? Jim From zmerch at 30below.com Sat Oct 11 16:54:38 2003 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:26 2005 Subject: Giveaway Schtuff Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20031011174315.00a85b98@mail.30below.com> AFAIK, everything's on topic, but if not, oops... Been doing more basement cleaning, and have some stuff for giveaway (with more to come). Cost: Cost of actual shipping. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-= MicroSoft Visual C++ Version 1.0 SDK manuals (all of 'em -- comes up about kneehigh to me!) - Cost could be prohibitive via UPS, but at least in the USA, Postal Service "Book Rate" should be affordable, even if it takes a while... =-=-=-=-=-=-=-= OS/2 Version 2.11 on 3.5" Floppy - Still Shrinkwrapped!!! Communication Manager/2 for OS/2 Version 1.1 - still shrinkwrapped, but one corner is 'torn' - you can tell it's never been opened, but the shrinkwrap has seen a few better days... ;-) =-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Atari 800xl (works) with another 800xl (parts, not tested...) This comes with some software, but I have no clue what... I believe I have power supplies (I found 4 so far, but not sure which ones are for the 800xl's... 1050 disk drive, CX-85 numerical keypad, XM-301 modem, and other assorted indescribabibbles... ;-) I can throw in a joystick or two, and I think I have a set of 'normal' paddles (not the ones that came with indy racing...) I'm still looking & sorting, so I dunno what else I have Atari 8-bit based, but you can get the whole lot for shipping... ;-) =-=-=-=-=-=-=-= That's all *for now* - anything not claimed in 7 days will be dumpstered or epayed - it's gotta go... Laterz, Roger "Merch" Merchberger From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Oct 11 17:06:16 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:27 2005 Subject: WTB: Pro-Log programmer parts In-Reply-To: <3F8846FB.E683F2A2@acsu.buffalo.edu> References: <3.0.6.32.20031011120337.007db100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031011180616.007ed620@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Jim, You're in luck. I have a User's Manual for the 980. I also have a 1979-1980 catalog that tells what adapters, personality modules and configurator modules are needed for various ICs. The 980 is newer than my catalog but according to it's manual you can use the various early adapters, etc it. I've offered to loan the manual and other docs to Al K to scan and post but I can make you a copy if you like. I'll be out of town for the next week so I won't be able to do it right away. What adapters, etc do you have for your 980? Joe At 02:07 PM 10/11/03 -0400, you wrote: >Hi Joe and List, >Nice photos, I own the Pro-Log 980 similar to the one in your photo. >Nice >unit easy to use, mine came with the UV eraser also, I am still looking >for the full manual that describes it, the operation, and also all the >adapters. >Good Show! > >Jim >WB2FCN > > >Joe wrote: >> >> Hi all, >> >> I picked up a couple of Pro-Log M900, M920 and M980 programmers lately. >> I want to burn some BiPolar PROMs and I need a Pro-Log PM 9048 "Intel >> Generic" personality module. It will look something like this >> . I'm also looking >> for other Pro-Log parts and I have parts to trade so if you have anything >> that you're willing to part with send me a list. Here's more pictures on >> my Pro-Log stuff. No text or descriptions yet, just pictures. >> >> >> Joe > From geoffr at zipcon.net Sat Oct 11 20:36:46 2003 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:27 2005 Subject: Xebec Apple II controller In-Reply-To: References: <10310100636.ZM24000@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.2.20031011183532.04984040@mail.zipcon.net> dug up an apple II that has a Xebec apple II controller init, is this a SCSI controller? or is it a SASI host interface that's gonna need an external SASI<->ST506 controller on it? From chejmw at acsu.buffalo.edu Sat Oct 11 21:50:48 2003 From: chejmw at acsu.buffalo.edu (James M. Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:27 2005 Subject: WTB: Pro-Log programmer parts References: <3.0.6.32.20031011120337.007db100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20031011180616.007ed620@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3F88C188.3AE73050@acsu.buffalo.edu> Hi Joe, No rush There Joe, after they are scanned is fine, someone might want to convert it to "PDF" and post it then! As for personality modules it came with the 2716 eprom adapter, model PM9052A and the eraser module is 9103A. I still use eproms for small projects, and thought this unit would be ideal for me as I also spend time erasing the EPROMS as well. I write control code for the INTEL microprocessors series starting with the 8080 and also their micro controllers like 8051 and 804(X) chips. Lots of room in them, however I hope to get the 2732/2764/27128/27256 as I also have lots of those as well. I wrote control code for the iSBC-8640 Board, it controls several radio repeaters on 2 meters and 70 cm, and talks to satellites on 2304 Mhz. No who-who just control code in assembly language. Simple small and fast. Thought I would go ahead and build the multi-bus to IDE interface and throw a couple of old <500 Mbyte drives on my systems to allow for updating code in the machine as opposed to on the development system. As for those I have the full blown Series II and a Series IV and the 86/330 system which runs iRMX-86, the others run ISIS, and have the in-circuit emulators for 8051/8085/8086. Wow I do tend to ramble. Cheerio and have a safe trip. Jim WB2FCN (I have to take some pictures of the computers and post them on my web-site) Joe wrote: > > Jim, > > You're in luck. I have a User's Manual for the 980. I also have a > 1979-1980 catalog that tells what adapters, personality modules and > configurator modules are needed for various ICs. The 980 is newer than my > catalog but according to it's manual you can use the various early > adapters, etc it. I've offered to loan the manual and other docs to Al K > to scan and post but I can make you a copy if you like. I'll be out of town > for the next week so I won't be able to do it right away. > > What adapters, etc do you have for your 980? > > Joe > > At 02:07 PM 10/11/03 -0400, you wrote: > >Hi Joe and List, > >Nice photos, I own the Pro-Log 980 similar to the one in your photo. > >Nice > >unit easy to use, mine came with the UV eraser also, I am still looking > >for the full manual that describes it, the operation, and also all the > >adapters. > >Good Show! > > > >Jim > >WB2FCN > > > > > >Joe wrote: > >> > >> Hi all, > >> > >> I picked up a couple of Pro-Log M900, M920 and M980 programmers lately. > >> I want to burn some BiPolar PROMs and I need a Pro-Log PM 9048 "Intel > >> Generic" personality module. It will look something like this > >> . I'm also looking > >> for other Pro-Log parts and I have parts to trade so if you have anything > >> that you're willing to part with send me a list. Here's more pictures on > >> my Pro-Log stuff. No text or descriptions yet, just pictures. > >> > >> > >> Joe > > From atreborz at execpc.com Sun Oct 12 10:09:03 2003 From: atreborz at execpc.com (Robert J. Stevens) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:27 2005 Subject: cctalk Digest, Vol 2, Issue 21 In-Reply-To: <200310111700.h9BH03H5067735@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <200310111700.h9BH03H5067735@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <3F896E8F.2000300@execpc.com> Message: 8 Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 12:03:37 -0400 From: Joe Subject: WTB: Pro-Log programmer parts To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031011120337.007db100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi all, I picked up a couple of Pro-Log M900, M920 and M980 programmers lately. I want to burn some BiPolar PROMs and I need a Pro-Log PM 9048 "Intel Generic" personality module. It will look something like this . I'm also looking for other Pro-Log parts and I have parts to trade so if you have anything that you're willing to part with send me a list. Here's more pictures on my Pro-Log stuff. No text or descriptions yet, just pictures. Joe Joe, Et Al; I have a Pro-Log M980 with a PM9080 Personality Module and two PA28-80B's and a PA40-80a also have the M304 RS232 Commnication Adaptor and a board marked "PROM PRGM SOCKET" with a 16 pin and a 24 Pin zip socket that plugs into an interfacecard [has two sets of 28 pin PIN's on back] but I dont have a board to plug it into. I need to find a GENERIC Module or a PM9059 for Intersil 82s123's. I hope someone out there can help. Bob in Wisconsin From ccmp at ovay.com Sun Oct 12 11:58:25 2003 From: ccmp at ovay.com (ccmp@ovay.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:27 2005 Subject: Moving- stuff must go Message-ID: <1065977905.3f898831dfe7e@192.168.1.10> Hello. I' in the process of moving, and the storage space I thought I had did not materialize, so... If there is anyone in the southeastern MA/RI area that can pick up some of these machines, they are yours for the taking (mostly Tandy 1000 and Apple stuff). They are located in Taunton, MA, but I can also bring them to Fall River, MA, where I now live. I only have about a week tops to get rid of this stuff. If anyone is interested but can't pick the stuff up in a week, I may be able to hold on to it for a short while longer. Unfortunately, I won't be able to ship anything at this time. You can view the list of stuff at http://www.ovay.com/list.txt and I'll be updating it when stuff goes. Email me at ccmp@ovay.com and I'll get back to you. Thanks so much for reading this. Marc Bileau From geneb at deltasoft.com Sun Oct 12 12:57:13 2003 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:27 2005 Subject: Interesting video board....free! Message-ID: In cleaning out some of my old stuff, I ran across a Diamond Stealth 64 PCI VGA card. What makes it interesting is that it's got a full size 15 pin d-sub connector instead of the 9 pin size, high density 15 pin d-sub connector. The chipset is an S3 Vision968. Anyone that's interested can have it for the cost of shipping. g. From jrasite at eoni.com Sun Oct 12 14:48:33 2003 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim Arnott) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:27 2005 Subject: Fwd: Non Tech - Selling electronics gizmos Message-ID: <3F89B011.1010607@eoni.com> From another list that I'm on..... -------- Original Message -------- Subject: [interceptors] Non Tech - Selling electronics gizmos Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 12:12:50 EDT From: one2dmax@aol.com Reply-To: interceptors@yahoogroups.com To: vmoatech@yahoogroups.com, vmoachat@yahoogroups.com, vmax@yahoogroups.com, vmaxmotorcycleridersclub@yahoogroups.com CC: fzxfazer@yahoogroups.com, interceptors@yahoogroups.com, vfrlist@yahoogroups.com, xjmotorcyclegroup@yahoogroups.com, jlaudiobass@yahoogroups.com Hello guys, I have a ton of electronic stuff and will probably never use it. There are hundreds of semiconductors, chips, diodes, ect... in the lot. I originally purchased the stuff for the storage containers. I'm sure some of this stuff has some value though and hopefully one of you has a need for this stuff and can make me a fair offer. Contact me off the list for pictures and offers. I have no idea what it is worth so try to be fair with me. I think some of it went to a training kit and other stuff goes to an auto repair kit as I had a manual that came with it. A partial list of what's there according to the labels on the drawers: Chips?: 555 Timer 741 Op-Amp 7402 4001 Quad 2 Input NOR 7400 4011 2 Input NAND 7404 HEX Invertor 74HC04 7411 3 Input Tripple AND 7445 Decoder 7447 7SGG Decoder 7475 Latch 7476 J-K 7404N 4n26 1406 1506 2112 ram 6808 74ls42 74s40 74123 7?126 74ls160 1408 74150 74141 74151 7442 7400 7402 2114 2240 2901 lm311 7403 7404 7474 75150 75154 301 4001 7408 741 op amp 7475 7476 74175 74193 7447 555 timer 7420 7432 7486 7490 74ls259 74ls266 7409 lm565 74ls27 74ls30 7495 74ls240 75452 1458 3n128 mosfet Others Diodes?: 1n4006 1n4732 910 GE 1n4148 1n4149 ST2 Diac 28/ 1n34 GE 1n5236B 5V Zener 1n4733 1n4734 5.6v Zen 1n4752 1n5230 4.7v 1n5234b 6.2v Zen Others I don't know what this stuff is?: 3904 npn 3906 pnp 2222a 2n4224 jfet 2n4403 5400 scr ecg265 t 106 d scr sc136 triac l m317 t lm 337 til 312 1738r others There is a lot of stuff that is unlabled and not in drawers. Also I have no way of guaranteeing what is in each drawer to verify the accuracy of the label. Again if you are interested I can take some pictures and send them to you. Thanks and Later, Sean and Sherry Morley Kansas Chapter Rep - Welcome to the VMOA! Member Number #1479 Our Website - Morley's MuscleCars and MuscleBikes *Yahoo! Groups Sponsor* Unsubscribe info: interceptors-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Interceptors home page: http://www.onelist.com/community/interceptors Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . From arcarlini at iee.org Sun Oct 12 16:44:10 2003 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:27 2005 Subject: Multi-CPU Qbus VAXen In-Reply-To: <200310081836.h98Iahe23050@abort.crash.com> Message-ID: <003101c39109$f8ecaf60$5b01a8c0@athlon> > That would be interesting - looking forward to comments from > Antonio and others about whether this is really possible... I *think* that, although only the 3520 and 3540 made it out as officially available systems, that you could in fact build up at least a 3560 and 3580 (i.e. up to four CPU boards yielding a total of 8 CPUs). That's just based on having seen something in the VMS Listings a long time ago. There was also a speed bump considered, and possibly built, which got as far as being allocated a system number, possibly along the lines of 38x0 (i.e. 3820, 3840 etc.) and that one had a tantalising 38A0 as a possible name IIRC. This speedup for the Firefox (codenamed Fastfox) never made it out of the door. I expect that multicpu workstations were just not in vogue at the time. I presume that the reason that the 3560 and 3580 were never marketted was down to performance scaling badly with inceasing number of cpus, or possibly there may have been a fatal problem (like the 3-CPU VAX 8300 variants occasionally locking up and the 4-CPU variant being pretty much guaranteed to lock during boot). Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From arcarlini at iee.org Sun Oct 12 16:49:23 2003 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:27 2005 Subject: VAX 8600 on ebay In-Reply-To: <200310081836.h98Iahe23050@abort.crash.com> Message-ID: <003201c3910a$b32eb8f0$5b01a8c0@athlon> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3051901405&category =1479 It does say "too large for pallet" so I guess you have been warned. This is really a souped-up ECL VAX-11/780, and I know that several of you are quite smitten by that vintage of machine. (sadly for me it's on the wrong side of the pond and has appeared just[1] before I become rich). Plenty of docs can be found on the net already, but no printsets (that I know of). Looks like this one might come with printsets (since it has maintenance docs) so would whoever buys it please get them scanned :-) Antonio [1] "just" here being measured on a geological time scale :-) -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From bpope at wordstock.com Sun Oct 12 19:39:55 2003 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:27 2005 Subject: Moving- stuff must go In-Reply-To: <1065977905.3f898831dfe7e@192.168.1.10> from "ccmp@ovay.com" at Oct 12, 03 12:58:25 pm Message-ID: <200310130039.UAA05860@wordstock.com> And thusly ccmp@ovay.com spake: > > > > Hello. I' in the process of moving, and the storage space I thought I had did > not materialize, so... > If there is anyone in the southeastern MA/RI area that can pick up some of > these machines, they are yours for the taking (mostly Tandy 1000 and Apple > stuff). They are located in Taunton, MA, but I can also bring them to Fall > River, MA, where I now live. I only have about a week tops to get rid of this Geez... You are supposed to move *closer* to Boston, not farther away! ;) I will get back to you... Cheers, Bryan P.S. I am in Belmont.. From jrasite at eoni.com Sun Oct 12 20:11:45 2003 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim Arnott) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:27 2005 Subject: Fwd: Non Tech - Selling electronics gizmos Message-ID: <3F89FBD1.2060008@eoni.com> From a motorcycle list that I'm on. Please respond to: one2dmax@aol.com Hello guys, I have a ton of electronic stuff and will probably never use it. There are hundreds of semiconductors, chips, diodes, ect... in the lot. I originally purchased the stuff for the storage containers. I'm sure some of this stuff has some value though and hopefully one of you has a need for this stuff and can make me a fair offer. Contact me off the list for pictures and offers. I have no idea what it is worth so try to be fair with me. I think some of it went to a training kit and other stuff goes to an auto repair kit as I had a manual that came with it. A partial list of what's there according to the labels on the drawers: Chips?: 555 Timer 741 Op-Amp 7402 4001 Quad 2 Input NOR 7400 4011 2 Input NAND 7404 HEX Invertor 74HC04 7411 3 Input Tripple AND 7445 Decoder 7447 7SGG Decoder 7475 Latch 7476 J-K 7404N 4n26 1406 1506 2112 ram 6808 74ls42 74s40 74123 7?126 74ls160 1408 74150 74141 74151 7442 7400 7402 2114 2240 2901 lm311 7403 7404 7474 75150 75154 301 4001 7408 741 op amp 7475 7476 74175 74193 7447 555 timer 7420 7432 7486 7490 74ls259 74ls266 7409 lm565 74ls27 74ls30 7495 74ls240 75452 1458 3n128 mosfet Others Diodes?: 1n4006 1n4732 910 GE 1n4148 1n4149 ST2 Diac 28/ 1n34 GE 1n5236B 5V Zener 1n4733 1n4734 5.6v Zen 1n4752 1n5230 4.7v 1n5234b 6.2v Zen Others I don't know what this stuff is?: 3904 npn 3906 pnp 2222a 2n4224 jfet 2n4403 5400 scr ecg265 t 106 d scr sc136 triac l m317 t lm 337 til 312 1738r others There is a lot of stuff that is unlabled and not in drawers. Also I have no way of guaranteeing what is in each drawer to verify the accuracy of the label. Again if you are interested I can take some pictures and send them to you. Thanks and Later, Sean and Sherry Morley Kansas Chapter Rep - Welcome to the VMOA! Member Number #1479 Our Website - Morley's MuscleCars and MuscleBikes From ian_primus at yahoo.com Sun Oct 12 21:01:21 2003 From: ian_primus at yahoo.com (Ian Primus) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:27 2005 Subject: ASR33 Teletype interfacing In-Reply-To: <3F884364.2B4301A3@acsu.buffalo.edu> Message-ID: <247D9773-FD21-11D7-8D99-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> On Saturday, October 11, 2003, at 01:52 PM, James M. Walker wrote: > Hi Ian and list, > Sorry there Ian, I should have mentioned that this technique is only > for testing purposes and also that the battery gets "HOT". This is an > old > trick I used while doing field setups and testing of Shio-To-Shore > sites > that used ARQ and FEC with ASR-32/33 teletypes. The 20 MA loop can be > connected to your interface as described previously. All that is needed > is a 115v primary to 115 v secondary transformer, a full wave bridge to > rectify the AC and around 35 - 60 uF cap for filtering. All this > output > is fed to the collector of an MJE-340 NPN transistor emitter, the > collector > connection goes to your ASR-(*) TTY. The base goes to the output from > the > tx terminals on the interface. I think I have an Orcad drawing of the > circuit if you would like it. As I recall it is an RS-232 to 20 MA > interface > and also includes an opto-isolator in the circuit. However at least you > did > get to verify that your TTY is indeed working correctly! Good "Oh! > Jim > Real Radio in Buffalo > I would definitely be interested in seeing your circuit. I am quite confused as to the proper way to go about doing this, from what I have seen, it looks like there are several quite different ways of doing what I want to do, and none of which I have been able to figure out thus far. That little thing I built with the resistor and the diode I somewhat understand, but then again, I also understand that it is _not_ a very good solution, and it looks like it might be dangerous to the computer if I wasn't careful. Electronics aren't my strong suit, although I am currently working on learning more. A friend and I are building a little computer based around the Z80 CPU, and I am actually beginning to understand memory decoding and addressing. But, analog electronics is something that I have done very little with, save for simple power supply repair and simple audio amplifiers. At the moment, 20mA current loops are over my head. Anything to help me understand what is going on here would be greatly appreciated. Also, yesterday I went to test the teletype again (I was cleaning the type cylinder), and I happened to turn it into Line mode, and it didn't run open like it had before. Then, I realized that the scraps of wire were still connected to the terminals, with one of the RX lines tied to one of the TX lines, and the other two wires were dangling, not connected to anything. Disconnecting the RX and TX lines caused it to run open again. Does this mean that the Teletype is supplying enough loop current to drive the selector magnet, or what? There seems to be forty different possible configurations for the teletype, and a the Teletype itself involves circuits and mechanisms that I don't understand. (IMHO, the ability to get that little cylinder to rotate and bang out the proper letter is amazing in itself, even more amazing is the fact that it's all done with levers and cams...) Once again, any help to clarify things would be greatly appreciated, one of these days I hope to be able to more fully comprehend these things... Thanks! Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com From david_comley at yahoo.com Sun Oct 12 21:04:38 2003 From: david_comley at yahoo.com (David Comley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:27 2005 Subject: WTB: Pro-Log programmer parts In-Reply-To: <3F8846FB.E683F2A2@acsu.buffalo.edu> Message-ID: <20031013020438.29300.qmail@web13508.mail.yahoo.com> I also own an M980 - minus documentation of course. Any chance Joe could be persuaded to put up a pdf of the manual somewhere ? I'd like to understand how that serial interface works. -Dave --- "James M. Walker" wrote: > Hi Joe and List, > Nice photos, I own the Pro-Log 980 similar to the > one in your photo. > Nice > unit easy to use, mine came with the UV eraser also, > I am still looking > for the full manual that describes it, the > operation, and also all the > adapters. > Good Show! > > Jim > WB2FCN > > > Joe wrote: > > > > Hi all, > > > > I picked up a couple of Pro-Log M900, M920 and > M980 programmers lately. > > I want to burn some BiPolar PROMs and I need a > Pro-Log PM 9048 "Intel > > Generic" personality module. It will look > something like this > > > . > I'm also looking > > for other Pro-Log parts and I have parts to trade > so if you have anything > > that you're willing to part with send me a list. > Here's more pictures on > > my Pro-Log stuff. No text or descriptions yet, > just pictures. > > > > > > Joe __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com From ian_primus at yahoo.com Sun Oct 12 21:39:50 2003 From: ian_primus at yahoo.com (Ian Primus) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:27 2005 Subject: Data I/O Series 22 EPROM Programmer help Message-ID: <84C81540-FD26-11D7-8D99-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> A friend and I are working on building a simple Z80 computer from scratch. We've got a pretty good start on it so far, but have run into a little snag - an EPROM programmer. I have an ancient Data I/O Series 22 programmer that I have been attempting to get working. I have the manual, and I managed to get it to power up. The power supply caps were limping, but they seem to have reformed while I was playing with it. I am now able to turn it on and have it come on properly every time. I can read devices into RAM fine, and I have (I think) successfully erased an EPROM with the built in UV eraser. (When I read the erased chip, the checksum is 0000). This programmer has an RS232 port on it, and I have attempted to connect it to a couple of different things. First, I tried connecting it to the Linux box in the workshop, and tried copying the data from ram to the serial port while I had a "cat /dev/ttyS1 > file" running. This produced no effect, other than a zero byte file. I connected a VT220 terminal, and have been able to control the programmer (to an extent) from the terminal. I can type the commands for copy, etc. But, the manual states that I should get some feedback on the terminal screen, as well as on the programmer's readout. So far, I have yet to see a single character come out of that programmer through the serial port. I know I have the baud rate, parity and stop bits set correctly. I even tried connecting my even more ancient Tektronix "doghouse" (German Shepherd sized) 'scope to the RS232 TX pin, and I haven't gotten a clear reading. Of course, my lack of a good reading is probably related to my lack of good probes, the ones I have are quick kludges with some old shielded coax cable, and are probably the electronic equivalent of pounding nails with a bowling ball (i.e. it works, kinda). Has anyone had any experience dealing with an EPROM programmer like this? What format is the data transferred in, and how can I communicate with the programmer from the computer. The manual is pretty cryptic about it, and mentions that the programmer is capable of sending and receiving data in no less than 20 formats, none of which seem like anything I have heard of before. What is the 'standard' method of transferring data two and from a serial EPROM programmer? Should I be able to see data on a terminal if I dump the data to the serial port, or is it in some non-ASCII format that the terminal (and Linux) can't render? I am lost here. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks! Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com From tothwolf at concentric.net Mon Oct 13 01:44:31 2003 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:27 2005 Subject: Data I/O Series 22 EPROM Programmer help In-Reply-To: <84C81540-FD26-11D7-8D99-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> References: <84C81540-FD26-11D7-8D99-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 12 Oct 2003, Ian Primus wrote: > I have an ancient Data I/O Series 22 programmer that I have been > attempting to get working. I have the manual, and I managed to get it to > power up. > I connected a VT220 terminal, and have been able to control the > programmer (to an extent) from the terminal. I can type the commands for > copy, etc. But, the manual states that I should get some feedback on the > terminal screen, as well as on the programmer's readout. Does the programmer want hardware flow control? > Has anyone had any experience dealing with an EPROM programmer like > this? What format is the data transferred in, and how can I communicate > with the programmer from the computer. The manual is pretty cryptic > about it, and mentions that the programmer is capable of sending and > receiving data in no less than 20 formats, none of which seem like > anything I have heard of before. The manual is probably referring to the format of the data you wish to program into a chip. I usually just use a raw binary format unless I need something else for some reason. > What is the 'standard' method of transferring data two and from a serial > EPROM programmer? Should I be able to see data on a terminal if I dump > the data to the serial port, or is it in some non-ASCII format that the > terminal (and Linux) can't render? I am lost here. Any suggestions would > be appreciated. There may not really be any one "standard" way of transferring data to/from programmers, but a common method is kermit with a terminal program on the host computer. -Toth From cctech at retro.co.za Mon Oct 13 02:28:30 2003 From: cctech at retro.co.za (Wouter de Waal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:27 2005 Subject: BBC Master stash Message-ID: <200310130728.JAA27572@ccii.co.za> Hi all I saved a whole stash of BBC stuff. Two Masters, one with the 80186 coprocessor. Four or maybe 5 disk drives (I think the 5th is a 3.5") Lots and lots of software and docs. Now, I'm not much into BBCs. Anyone out there who can use this stuff better than I can? (I do need a WD1770, but it's a bit OTT to strip a BBC to get one chip). Oh yes, and the catch -- I'm in Cape Town, South Africa. Wouter www.retro.co.za From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Oct 13 06:53:02 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:27 2005 Subject: WTB: Pro-Log programmer parts In-Reply-To: <20031013020438.29300.qmail@web13508.mail.yahoo.com> References: <3F8846FB.E683F2A2@acsu.buffalo.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031013075302.007d8720@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 07:04 PM 10/12/03 -0700, David Comley wrote: >I also own an M980 - minus documentation of course. >Any chance Joe could be persuaded to put up a pdf of >the manual somewhere ? I'd like to understand how that >serial interface works. > I have the User's manual for the M980, the User/Service manual for the M900 and some other intersting manuals and catalogs. I don't have a way to scan them and convert them to PDF but I'll loan them to anyone that wants to do that. I've already offered them to Al but haven't heard back from him about it. He may have enough to do already. Just a word of warning about the serial port. DON'T try to use the serial port on the box for RS-232. It's made for TTY current loop only. Strange as it sounds the parallel port is used for Rs-232 (as well as parallel interface and paper tape reader). You need the M304 adapter box to connect RS-232 to the parallel port on the M980. There's a different adapter box for the M900. I don't have that adapter but I do have the schematic for it and it's nothing but a few level converter circuits. Joe From ian_primus at yahoo.com Mon Oct 13 08:04:33 2003 From: ian_primus at yahoo.com (Ian Primus) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:27 2005 Subject: Data I/O Series 22 EPROM Programmer help In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Monday, October 13, 2003, at 02:44 AM, Tothwolf wrote: > On Sun, 12 Oct 2003, Ian Primus wrote: > >> I have an ancient Data I/O Series 22 programmer that I have been >> attempting to get working. I have the manual, and I managed to get it >> to >> power up. > >> I connected a VT220 terminal, and have been able to control the >> programmer (to an extent) from the terminal. I can type the commands >> for >> copy, etc. But, the manual states that I should get some feedback on >> the >> terminal screen, as well as on the programmer's readout. > > Does the programmer want hardware flow control? The manual indicates that hardware handshaking is an option. I have tried setting the terminal to "No Xoff", and have used different cables, including a 4 wire simple hardware handshake-less cable. >> Has anyone had any experience dealing with an EPROM programmer like >> this? What format is the data transferred in, and how can I >> communicate >> with the programmer from the computer. The manual is pretty cryptic >> about it, and mentions that the programmer is capable of sending and >> receiving data in no less than 20 formats, none of which seem like >> anything I have heard of before. > > The manual is probably referring to the format of the data you wish to > program into a chip. I usually just use a raw binary format unless I > need > something else for some reason. > >> What is the 'standard' method of transferring data two and from a >> serial >> EPROM programmer? Should I be able to see data on a terminal if I dump >> the data to the serial port, or is it in some non-ASCII format that >> the >> terminal (and Linux) can't render? I am lost here. Any suggestions >> would >> be appreciated. > > There may not really be any one "standard" way of transferring data > to/from > programmers, but a common method is kermit with a terminal program on > the > host computer. > > -Toth The more I tinker with this, the more I am suspecting a hardware problem. While trying to revive the power supply, I was measuring voltages that were pretty far off, all of them too low. Now, the power supply seems to have stabilized, and the voltages are consistently close to correct. They are a fuzz low, but it's within the specifications that the manual gives. (i.e. 15 volts is about 14.8 volts, but it's close enough). I measured voltages at the 1488 and 1489 chips, and they are just about what the data sheet says is nominal (Nominal is 9V, and -9v, I'm reading about 8.9v and -8.89v). But, from the looks of the solder and some residual flux on the top of the board, it almost looks like the 1488 has been replaced before. If this chip is bad, I would assume that it would prevent me from seeing any output, but the input would still work, since the 1489 is obviously functioning. If I feel adventurous later this afternoon, I think I am going to try to desolder the 1488 and replace it with a socket. I know I have another 1488 or two kicking around here, so I'll see if that does any good. Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com From dwoyciesjes at comcast.net Mon Oct 13 08:05:51 2003 From: dwoyciesjes at comcast.net (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:27 2005 Subject: Interesting video board....free! References: Message-ID: <3F8AA32F.F16088ED@comcast.net> Gene Buckle wrote: > > In cleaning out some of my old stuff, I ran across a Diamond Stealth 64 > PCI VGA card. What makes it interesting is that it's got a full size 15 > pin d-sub connector instead of the 9 pin size, high density 15 pin d-sub > connector. > > The chipset is an S3 Vision968. > > Anyone that's interested can have it for the cost of shipping. > > g. I wonder, was that in a Mac computer? IIRC, that's what Mac monitors use to have... -- --- Dave Woyciesjes --- ICQ# 905818 From frank at artair.com Fri Oct 10 11:40:39 2003 From: frank at artair.com (Frank Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:27 2005 Subject: ASR33 Teletype interfacing In-Reply-To: <1065732747.15567.62.camel@linux.local> References: <1065732747.15567.62.camel@linux.local> Message-ID: <40490000.1065804038@hoovers-59.hoovers.com> --On Thursday, October 09, 2003 13:52:27 -0700 Tom Jennings wrote: >> I have been attempting to get my ASR33 teletype connected to something >> and communicating, but so far I have not been successful. I have built >> the interface here : >> http://www.daedalus.co.nz/~don/computing/20mahack.html > > > It wont work, sorry... > > Teletypes are inductive loads. Though they only want 20 mils, the > voltage needs to be high to get the initial magnet pull-in (basic RL > theory). ASR33 loops were generally run at 100V or so, but I run my > Model 28 at 14V, with non-perfect error rate, and I don't use the > keyboard. > > The keyboard and printer are IN SERIES. If you hit keys while it's > printing you foul it up. Normal. > > Because it's inductive, it makes a spike when yuo turn the voltage off. > You need to suppress this with a diode, a resistor and capacitor, for > example. > > They're not subtle interfaces, and weren't meant to be. > > If you just want to print, you can rig up a power transistor, two > resistors, a diode, and a high-voltage DC power supply to do the trick, > and drive it from the serial port. > > If you want to receieve also, you can use another transistor and > resistor to pick off the change in loop current that happens when you > press keys which open the loop, and drive the serial port. > > I've done one of these fairly recently, and if poked with a > not-too-sharp stick, I'll scan the schematic and pu on my website. For the time and/or solder impaired, you can buy RS232 <-> current loop converters. I bought one from B&B Electronics when I needed one quickly, but there are probably other (and possibly cheaper) places that sell them also. Frank From scott at californiasystem.com Fri Oct 10 12:25:53 2003 From: scott at californiasystem.com (scott@californiasystem.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:27 2005 Subject: Manual for GTSC 304 Message-ID: <002601c38f53$8f24d880$0300a8c0@yourfn86qv5dxz> Hi Joe, I would like to get the entire manual for GTSC 304 new/old version if you still have them available. Thanks. Scott Yu California Systems 2650 Walnut Ave., Suite B Tustin, CA 92780 T: 714-832-5444 F: 714-832-5445 From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Fri Oct 10 13:48:12 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:27 2005 Subject: Posting propagation delays In-Reply-To: <10310100610.ZM23984@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctech-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Pete Turnbull > Sent: 10 October 2003 06:10 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: Posting propagation delays > > > On Oct 9, 22:24, John Lawson wrote: > > > > I am moderately curious why it is taking one to five (or more) > hours for > > posts to show up... manual moderation perhaps? If so, I don't envy > Jay > > for the task... > > > > But other than that... more than one person I know is experiencing > > these lengthy delays between 'send' and 'recieved'.. > > When did you post this one? The headers show when it passe through > each MTA along the way (in reverse order): > I've only just received this one and it's now 19:43 GMT on the 10th! Here are the headers with email addresses munged: Return-path: Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for witchy@######.demon.co.uk id 1A7ys2-0005bK-8o; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 18:36:58 +0000 Received: from [213.161.76.87] (helo=neptune.easily.co.uk) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1A7ys2-0005bK-8o for witchy@######.demon.co.uk; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 15:07:58 +0000 Received: from huey.classiccmp.org (huey.classiccmp.org [209.145.140.36]) by neptune.easily.co.uk (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9CC539AA3 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 16:07:47 +0100 (BST) Received: from huey.classiccmp.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by huey.classiccmp.org (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h9AF8nH6059804; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 10:08:49 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from cctech-bounces@classiccmp.org) Received: from he302war.uk.vianw.net (he302war.uk.vianw.net [195.102.244.165]) by huey.classiccmp.org (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h9A5T1H3056839 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 00:29:02 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from pete@##########.u-net.com) Received: from [62.172.27.116] (helo=mindy.dunnington.u-net.com) by he302war.uk.vianw.net with asmtp (Exim 3.22 #5) id 1A7pk1-0003IQ-00 for cctalk@classiccmp.org; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 06:23:05 +0100 Received: (from pete@localhost) by mindy.dunnington.u-net.com (8.12.9/8.12.9/PNT2.0) id h9A5AKjM023986 for cctalk@classiccmp.org; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 06:10:20 +0100 (BST) Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 06:10:20 +0100 (BST) From: Pete Turnbull Message-Id: <10310100610.ZM23984@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> In-Reply-To: John Lawson "Posting propagation delays" (Oct 9, 22:24) References: X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.3 08feb96 MediaMail) To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 08:37:55 -0500 Cc: Subject: Re: Posting propagation delays X-BeenThere: cctech@classiccmp.org From stargazer7247 at yahoo.com Fri Oct 10 14:37:11 2003 From: stargazer7247 at yahoo.com (Rhonda Dooley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:27 2005 Subject: IBM 5110 Message-ID: <20031010193711.27521.qmail@web41603.mail.yahoo.com> I am looking for information on an IBM 5110 computer system. In cleaning out a storage area at work, my boss discovered this computer. It was bought new in 1978 for $ 20,000 and worked the last time in operation. I am looking for information such as the current asking price for this vintage model. My boss is interested in selling this item (if you are interested). Any information would be greatly appreciated. Thank you. R. Dooley --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search From Bissonnette.Michel at ireq.ca Fri Oct 10 23:39:21 2003 From: Bissonnette.Michel at ireq.ca (Bissonnette, Michel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:27 2005 Subject: Re. HP64000, aka offering help to duplicate HP64K disquettes Message-ID: <48244C57852E2540A70B06F146BC5CE30B47D0@caracas.ireq.ca> Hi! I was brousing the web to see if something new on the web related to that good old HP 64000 beast. I collected HP64K related stuff since 6 years and I have about 60 Manuals titles and 40x 5 inches Floppy softwares disk for it. I Have been faced to the problem of preserving the files on those old originals Floppies. With the time I found a software for that usage and wrote a procedure to duplicates the diskettes with a PC. I will be glad to help anybody who wish to preserve that heritage especially if you can offer something for trade. Ex. Cards, pods, accessories, manual, software diskettes, expertise, etc. Michel B. VE2FYG ------------------------------------------------------- HP64000 Steven N. Hirsch cctech@classiccmp.org Tue May 6 06:45:04 2003 On Sun, 4 May 2003, David and Nancy Keim Comley wrote: > I brought home an HP64000 development system today. It has the emulation > pods for the 68000 and 8080A processors, an HP-IB cable plus some other odds > and ends in the backpack. A peak at the back indicated that it is crammed > full of cards and 128K memory. > > Unfortunately what it doesn't have is either software or manuals, so this is > a request to the group for help in that respect. I believe that there was a > ton of software originally available for this unit to support various > options and development tools, and I think what I am looking for is at least > the operating system on floppy so that I can boot it up. Any background > material on the 64000 would also be appreciated. You may have yelled just in time. At one point I had (5) of these things in my garage. Most of the extra hardware is gone (although I may have one or two extra pods), but I did hang on to a large box of documentation and have all the latest-and-greatest software on diskette. I was planning a trip to the landfill, but will hold off on that in case you want any of it. If you are located within driving distance of Burlington, VT, you could also cart away one of the floor-standing 8" hard-disk units (weighs > 100lbs. and stores a whopping 5-MB). I wouldn't even consider shipping that beast. Let me know if you are interested in the docs. The diskettes would have to be duplicated, which means finding time and space to fire up the remaining system unit and remember how to use it . Perhaps someone on the list knows of a utility which permits copying the HP64k diskettes on a PC? Steve From GenealogyPro at RicVa.net Sat Oct 11 17:54:18 2003 From: GenealogyPro at RicVa.net (GenealogyPro) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:27 2005 Subject: Floppy drive alignment tools Message-ID: <3F888A1A.93C6165A@RicVa.net> Can you identify any sources for floppy drive alignment tools similar to Floppy Tune that was put out by Data Depot of Clearwater, FL? That company tells me its product has not been available for more than a year and it is not certain when, if at all, it will again become available? With what I recall I paid for the same, it would be worthwhile to buy either another copy or a competitor's produce since the drive I need to realign is in a laptop computer and thus would, unless I could find a "junked" computer with the same floppy drive that still works, cost as much to replace as what I originally paid for the laptop itself as I bought it used. Thanks Michael E. Pollock --- [This msg Virus Scanned by GlobalWeb.net] From danstren at yahoo.com Sun Oct 12 11:25:56 2003 From: danstren at yahoo.com (Dan Strenkowski) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:27 2005 Subject: next batch of things to sell/give away Message-ID: <20031012162556.70867.qmail@web41810.mail.yahoo.com> Still have any of this? ---- I've got another batch of things to get rid of. Not everthing is free this time. If any of my prices are out of line, please feel free to counter offer. Free + shipping: -2 empty drive bay covers for BA440 series DEC cabinets -M7165 with ribbon cables -IBM WDS-380 scsi drive, 80megs, full height 3.5" -big pot with knob, new, made by Clarostat? 3 terminals, 06-115921-019, 625-7917, unknown values -Namco limit switch, mounted on a plate, rated for both AC and DC, 125v at 15amps AC or .5amps DC. -IBM 8bit ISA serial/parallel card with NS16450N uart, from an AT -generic PC floppy cable :-) -WDC 8/16 bit ISA 256K VGA card For sale plus shipping: -2 fan trays with fans from a DEC R400X DSSI expansion chassis.... these are the same as the ones in any BA440 chassis right? $10.00 each -1 power supply from DEC R400X DSSI expansion chassis. I assume this os also the same as for the BA440. $20 -Kensington System Saver Mac, this is for a Plus, SE, etc. It's in great shape. $20.00 -SCO Open Desktop 2.0.0 on QIC tape. I tried installing it, and I think I had a bad tape drive.... NT wouldn't see the drive either. I picked it up used but the tape had never been opened until I opened it. It is in the original box with all manuals and license card. $5.00 -2 Belkin narrow centronics style 6 foot scsi cables and a no-name terminator of some kind, probably passsive. All in new condition. $15.00 -generic scsi drive case, narrow with centronics style connectors, will accept either a HD or a cdrom.... has two face plates. Never used for more than a few minutes, stored most of the time. Still in box. $15.00 Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA ------- --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search From teoz at neo.rr.com Mon Oct 13 10:47:54 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:27 2005 Subject: Interesting video board....free! References: <3F8AA32F.F16088ED@comcast.net> Message-ID: <002001c391a1$6109cbe0$3d7ca418@neo.rr.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Woyciesjes" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Monday, October 13, 2003 9:05 AM Subject: Re: Interesting video board....free! > Gene Buckle wrote: > > > > In cleaning out some of my old stuff, I ran across a Diamond Stealth 64 > > PCI VGA card. What makes it interesting is that it's got a full size 15 > > pin d-sub connector instead of the 9 pin size, high density 15 pin d-sub > > connector. > > > > The chipset is an S3 Vision968. > > > > Anyone that's interested can have it for the cost of shipping. > > > > g. > > I wonder, was that in a Mac computer? IIRC, that's what Mac monitors > use to have... > > -- > --- Dave Woyciesjes > --- ICQ# 905818 There was a mac board made by diamond called the Javelin (Javelin video 30000) that fits this description. What does the bios chip say on it? I have one of these video boards but somebody replaced the bios chip so that its pc compatible and I cant use it on my powermac. From geneb at deltasoft.com Mon Oct 13 11:27:37 2003 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:27 2005 Subject: Interesting video board....free! In-Reply-To: <002001c391a1$6109cbe0$3d7ca418@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: > > There was a mac board made by diamond called the Javelin (Javelin video > 30000) that fits this description. What does the bios chip say on it? > I have one of these video boards but somebody replaced the bios chip so that > its pc compatible and I cant use it on my powermac. > >From memory, I think it reads "Stealth64" with a version number of 2.07. The label is green. g. From rhudson at cnonline.net Mon Oct 13 11:50:55 2003 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:27 2005 Subject: OT: Need help finding jobs Message-ID: <696E4EAA-FD9D-11D7-95E4-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> This is posted on both cctalk (classic Computers) and M100 (Radio Shack Model 100 computers) mailing lists. Apologies to those on both lists. I have been a sometime poster and a long time lurker on these two lists and I consider a number of you friends, the rest of you are friends I don't know yet. As some of you may know, my family and I just moved to Kansas City MO after my wife was laid off at her job. My wife and I are currently looking for jobs in the area. If you know of any job in the Kansas City MO area for us please pass an email on to us, or pass our email our address to the hiring manager. Thanks for your help. Ron hudson rhudson@cnonline.net Network Admin/Helpdesk Tina Hudson thudson@cnonline.net Purchasing / Buyer We are both checking all the job sites we can find (esp Dice, Monster Career Builder ... ) From alhartman at yahoo.com Mon Oct 13 12:43:33 2003 From: alhartman at yahoo.com (Al Hartman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:27 2005 Subject: MacPlus Mouse? In-Reply-To: <200310131714.h9DHCXH5075947@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20031013174333.11066.qmail@web13408.mail.yahoo.com> A friend of mine is looking for a mouse for his Macintosh Plus. It would be a non-ADB Mouse, with the 9-pin Connector on it (similar to a PC-Style Serial Connector). Please contact me if you have one to help my friend out... Also, if anyone wants it... I have a Mac 128 (I think..) for grabs. It is just the case, logic board and Video Tube. It doesn't have a floppy drive or analog board or other parts... Perfect for a MacQuarium.. LOL!! Pay for Shipping (or come pick it up in Philadelphia PA) and it's yours... Al __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com From arcarlini at iee.org Mon Oct 13 12:46:59 2003 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:27 2005 Subject: Posting propagation delays In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <003d01c391b2$016442e0$5b01a8c0@athlon> > I've only just received this one and it's now 19:43 GMT on > the 10th! Here are the headers with email addresses munged: I presume the last delay (or the first, reading backwards in time) is just the email arriving at your ISP at 16:07 (BST) and you trying to read it at 19:36 (BST) > Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore > for witchy@######.demon.co.uk id 1A7ys2-0005bK-8o; > Fri, 10 Oct 2003 18:36:58 +0000 > Received: from [213.161.76.87] (helo=neptune.easily.co.uk) > by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1A7ys2-0005bK-8o > for witchy@######.demon.co.uk; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 15:07:58 +0000 > Received: from huey.classiccmp.org (huey.classiccmp.org [209.145.140.36]) > by neptune.easily.co.uk (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9CC539AA3 > for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 16:07:47 +0100 (BST) But this one seems to be huey.classiccmp.org hanging on to it for nearly half a day: > Received: from huey.classiccmp.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) > by huey.classiccmp.org (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h9AF8nH6059804; > Fri, 10 Oct 2003 10:08:49 -0500 (CDT) > (envelope-from cctech-bounces@classiccmp.org) > Received: from he302war.uk.vianw.net (he302war.uk.vianw.net [195.102.244.165]) > by huey.classiccmp.org (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h9A5T1H3056839 > for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 00:29:02 -0500 (CDT) > (envelope-from pete@##########.u-net.com) [snip] For the record, the email to which I am replying has these headers (amongst others) and seems to have been received by huey on Friday and dealt with on Monday. Does heuy not work weekends? Or is that when he's off golfing with looey and duey :-) Received: from huey.classiccmp.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by huey.classiccmp.org (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h9DE6HH4073809; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 09:06:17 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by huey.classiccmp.org (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h9AIuKH3061395; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 13:56:20 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from witchy@binarydinosaurs.co.uk) Received: from vorbis.demon.co.uk ([62.49.16.88] helo=fop2) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1A82Iy-000I56-0W; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 19:48:00 +0100 From: "Witchy" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only" , "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 19:48:12 +0100 Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From arcarlini at iee.org Mon Oct 13 12:54:15 2003 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:27 2005 Subject: Multi-CPU Qbus VAXen In-Reply-To: <200310131726.44521.meltie@meltie.com> Message-ID: <003e01c391b3$04437890$5b01a8c0@athlon> > No, just four totally seperate 4-slot Q22 backplanes sharing > a common PSU > (OK, i'm hardly going for 5x9 uptime and redundancy here!) in > a largish Wouldn't this just be essentially 4 BA23s in a rackmount type of enclosure? If so, they would each have their own PSU. I don't know about the various configs that DEC sold officially, but the ones I put together by scrounging round the lab were always stacks of BA23s and a distribution panel of some sort. > deskside case and clustered over thinwire - was going to look > for KA660s > so I could share a DSSI disk too. Could multiple hosts use a SCSI bus? AFAICR the KA660 will happily work in a BA23 but if you want DSSI you need the proper cab kit, which needs a BA2xx or BA4xx case. So now you are back to back-to-back mounted BA213 or BA430 in a rack. > Unfortunately the amount of VAXen (and therefore available > CPUs) over here in the UK is a LOT smaller than in the US! Nah. You just need to look harder, or more likely, for longer. They crop up but you have to work at it. There's plenty of stuff on reseller's shelves and it will all become available over the next ten to twenty years or so as they close up shop or move on to other things. The real problem will be what to do when that happens: do you save both the VAX 8650 and the VAX 9000 and how can you have them both running on the Internet at the same time. Of course, if you're not in this for the long haul ... :-) Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Oct 13 14:56:33 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:27 2005 Subject: Interesting video board....free! In-Reply-To: <3F8AA32F.F16088ED@comcast.net> References: <3F8AA32F.F16088ED@comcast.net> Message-ID: <20031013125138.D26942@newshell.lmi.net> Gene Buckle wrote: > In cleaning out some of my old stuff, I ran across a Diamond Stealth 64 > PCI VGA card. What makes it interesting is that it's got a full size 15 > pin d-sub connector instead of the 9 pin size, high density 15 pin d-sub > connector. DA15 (instead of DE15) was commonly used for some Apple monitors. PCI made it possible to physically insert Apple PCI cards into PC PCI bus, and vice versa. The local humane society had a donated PC with such a video card that they were using for record keeping of their vet hospital. Their "vertical market solutions" vendor insisted on selling them an entire IBM computer, "because that one with the weird video connector is too weird!" From teoz at neo.rr.com Mon Oct 13 15:58:13 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:27 2005 Subject: Interesting video board....free! References: <3F8AA32F.F16088ED@comcast.net> <20031013125138.D26942@newshell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <000d01c391cc$bb2313e0$3d7ca418@neo.rr.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Cisin" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Monday, October 13, 2003 3:56 PM Subject: Re: Interesting video board....free! > Gene Buckle wrote: > > In cleaning out some of my old stuff, I ran across a Diamond Stealth 64 > > PCI VGA card. What makes it interesting is that it's got a full size 15 > > pin d-sub connector instead of the 9 pin size, high density 15 pin d-sub > > connector. > > DA15 (instead of DE15) was commonly used for some Apple monitors. > PCI made it possible to physically insert Apple PCI cards into PC PCI bus, > and vice versa. > > The local humane society had a donated PC with such a video card that > they were using for record keeping of their vet hospital. Their "vertical > market solutions" vendor insisted on selling them an entire IBM computer, > "because that one with the weird video connector is too weird!" > Just because the mac went to PCI doesnt mean that any pci card could be used in a mac. The card would have to have firmware that told the mac what to do with it, and then drivers/software for it to work with the OS. Most venders dont want to mess or support other platforms or hardware that isnt their specialty (especially when they can sell you more hardware to replace it). I think most of the diamond cards for the mac were re-rommed for the PC and sold off into the aftermarket clearence houses who probably sold them with mac monitors or just mav to vga adapters. Diamonf never sold many if any cards o the mac crowd. From jpero at sympatico.ca Mon Oct 13 12:04:12 2003 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:27 2005 Subject: Found this. In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20031010213229.007d7d20@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <20031013210222.GAOQ9290.tomts13-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Saw this on our local newsgroups (kingston.forsale) Contact him not me please! quote: Contact: jrpart@excite.com Available are: QTY Description ----- ------------- 250 - Green LED Rectangular 5mm x 2mm (just the right size to slide into the cooling slots of a PC Case front bezel). 8000 - Red LED 5mm Diameter, Sharp P/N: GL5PR4 available in bags of 250 and boxes of 2000. 125 - TIL-311 Hexadecimal Dot Matrix Display with integral TTL driver electronics to accept, store & display 4-bit binary data, Epoxy package 8 - TIL-311A Hexadecimal Dot Matrix Display with integral TTL driver circuit to accept, store & display 4-bit binary data, Plastic package For a copy of the TIL311 Datasheet see: http://www-s.ti.com/sc/ds/til311.pdf and it is mirrored at http://umwnt1.physics.lsa.umich.edu/mttc/images/til311.pdf 9900 - 100 Ohm, 5%, 1/4 Watt Carbon film resistor, available in packages of 100 and boxes of 5000. Use it as a current limiting resistor to drive the above LEDs from a 3.3 Volt Supply. 3500 - 220 Ohm, 5%, 1/4 Watt Carbon film resistor, available in packages of 100. Use it as a current limiting resistor to drive the above LEDs from a 5 Volt Supply. 3800 - 680 Ohm, 5%, 1/4 Watt Carbon film resistor, available in packages of 100. Use it as a current limiting resistor to drive the above LEDs from a 12 Volt Supply. Here is the pricing including shipping on prepaid orders, COD is available for an additional $6.50. All parts/components are only sold in full packages. - Bag of 250 LEDs, $30 including shipping to anywhere in Canada - Box of 2000 LEDs, $155 including shipping to anywhere in Canada - 100 Resistors, $5 including shipping to anywhere in Canada - 5000 Resistors, $30 including shipping to anywhere in Ontario - 5000 Resistors, $35 including shipping to anywhere in Canada outside of Ontario Here is the pricing for the soldercup DB-25 connectors. The pricing is identical for Male and Female connectors. For either type, the contact surfaces have three micron Gold plating. All prices include tax: 1 - 49 pieces at $1.44 each 50 - 99 pieces at $1.21 each 100 pieces or more at $0.96 each The TIL311 and TIL311A Displays are $11 each (less than half of their wholesale price) For the DB-25 connectors and TIL311 displays the shipping is extra, since shipping charges depend on weight. So E-mail me for a quote if you want multiple items from the above list shipped. Please include your Postal Code. To purchase, e-mail me, in return I'll send you my address, phone number and payment instructions. Contact: jrpart@excite.com unquote. Wizard From jpero at sympatico.ca Mon Oct 13 12:04:12 2003 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:27 2005 Subject: Found this. In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20031010213229.007d7d20@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <20031013210851.HXGB4776.tomts12-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Saw this on our local newsgroups (kingston.forsale) Contact him not me please! quote: Contact: jrpart@excite.com Available are: QTY Description ----- ------------- 250 - Green LED Rectangular 5mm x 2mm (just the right size to slide into the cooling slots of a PC Case front bezel). 8000 - Red LED 5mm Diameter, Sharp P/N: GL5PR4 available in bags of 250 and boxes of 2000. 125 - TIL-311 Hexadecimal Dot Matrix Display with integral TTL driver electronics to accept, store & display 4-bit binary data, Epoxy package 8 - TIL-311A Hexadecimal Dot Matrix Display with integral TTL driver circuit to accept, store & display 4-bit binary data, Plastic package For a copy of the TIL311 Datasheet see: http://www-s.ti.com/sc/ds/til311.pdf and it is mirrored at http://umwnt1.physics.lsa.umich.edu/mttc/images/til311.pdf 9900 - 100 Ohm, 5%, 1/4 Watt Carbon film resistor, available in packages of 100 and boxes of 5000. Use it as a current limiting resistor to drive the above LEDs from a 3.3 Volt Supply. 3500 - 220 Ohm, 5%, 1/4 Watt Carbon film resistor, available in packages of 100. Use it as a current limiting resistor to drive the above LEDs from a 5 Volt Supply. 3800 - 680 Ohm, 5%, 1/4 Watt Carbon film resistor, available in packages of 100. Use it as a current limiting resistor to drive the above LEDs from a 12 Volt Supply. Here is the pricing including shipping on prepaid orders, COD is available for an additional $6.50. All parts/components are only sold in full packages. - Bag of 250 LEDs, $30 including shipping to anywhere in Canada - Box of 2000 LEDs, $155 including shipping to anywhere in Canada - 100 Resistors, $5 including shipping to anywhere in Canada - 5000 Resistors, $30 including shipping to anywhere in Ontario - 5000 Resistors, $35 including shipping to anywhere in Canada outside of Ontario Here is the pricing for the soldercup DB-25 connectors. The pricing is identical for Male and Female connectors. For either type, the contact surfaces have three micron Gold plating. All prices include tax: 1 - 49 pieces at $1.44 each 50 - 99 pieces at $1.21 each 100 pieces or more at $0.96 each The TIL311 and TIL311A Displays are $11 each (less than half of their wholesale price) For the DB-25 connectors and TIL311 displays the shipping is extra, since shipping charges depend on weight. So E-mail me for a quote if you want multiple items from the above list shipped. Please include your Postal Code. To purchase, e-mail me, in return I'll send you my address, phone number and payment instructions. Contact: jrpart@excite.com unquote. Wizard From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Oct 13 16:40:50 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:27 2005 Subject: Interesting video board....free! In-Reply-To: <000d01c391cc$bb2313e0$3d7ca418@neo.rr.com> References: <3F8AA32F.F16088ED@comcast.net> <20031013125138.D26942@newshell.lmi.net> <000d01c391cc$bb2313e0$3d7ca418@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: <20031013143236.X26942@newshell.lmi.net> > > Gene Buckle wrote: > > > In cleaning out some of my old stuff, I ran across a Diamond Stealth 64 > > > PCI VGA card. What makes it interesting is that it's got a full size 15 > > > pin d-sub connector instead of the 9 pin size, high density 15 pin d-sub > > > connector. > > > > DA15 (instead of DE15) was commonly used for some Apple monitors. > > PCI made it possible to physically insert Apple PCI cards into PC PCI bus, > > and vice versa. > > > > The local humane society had a donated PC with such a video card that > > they were using for record keeping of their vet hospital. Their "vertical > > market solutions" vendor insisted on selling them an entire IBM computer, > > "because that one with the weird video connector is too weird!" On Mon, 13 Oct 2003, TeoZ wrote: > Just because the mac went to PCI doesnt mean that any pci card could be used > in a mac. The card would have to have firmware that told the mac what to do > with it, and then drivers/software for it to work with the OS. That is why I said, "made it possible to physically insert . . ." This was a functioning system, with all the right cabling, drivers, etc. > Most venders dont want to mess or support other platforms or hardware that > isnt their specialty (especially when they can sell you more hardware to > replace it). This vendor wanted to make the hardware sale. Enough to blame "that weird video" for modem and CD-ROm problems in his software. (Even after they made the hardware sale of complete system, they still never got their [software] system to run right) > I think most of the diamond cards for the mac were re-rommed for the PC and > sold off into the aftermarket clearence houses who probably sold them with > mac monitors or just mav to vga adapters. Diamonf never sold many if any > cards o the mac crowd. That sounds about right - it was probably a Mac board, but it had PC compatible ROM and Windoze drivers. From bqt at update.uu.se Mon Oct 13 16:58:11 2003 From: bqt at update.uu.se (Johnny Billquist) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:27 2005 Subject: VAX 8600 on ebay In-Reply-To: <200310131715.h9DHCXH6075947@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 13 Oct 2003 "Antonio Carlini" wrote: > http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3051901405&category > =1479 > > It does say "too large for pallet" so I guess you have been warned. This > is > really a souped-up ECL VAX-11/780, and I know that several of you are > quite > smitten by that vintage of machine. (sadly for me it's on the wrong side > of the pond and has appeared just[1] before I become rich). Oh drool. It's more than a souped up 11/780, but I guess in this company it's a fair description. :-) If noone goes for it, I'd love to get my hands on the cards (especially memory). Update have one 8650 up and running 24/7 with NetBSD. I'm about to embark on an ambitious project of getting the device driver from Ultrix working in NetBSD, if someone else feels like joining in... Does anyone have any good ideas what the problem can be if an 8650 have problems booting the FE, by the way? It fails about 50% of the time. I've checked all cables, tried two different FEs, tried different RL02 drives and packs. Different controllers. When I get an error, it's a problem with the RL02. That much I can tell from the error, but unfortunately, that specific error is actually not mentioned in the DEC documentation for the 8650. The only thing I just realized I haven't swapped is the Q-bus backplane... Johnny Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt@update.uu.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Oct 13 17:10:49 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:27 2005 Subject: cctalk Digest, Vol 2, Issue 13 In-Reply-To: from "Fred N. van Kempen" at Oct 9, 3 08:29:18 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 251 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20031013/7c583c05/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Oct 13 17:20:45 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:27 2005 Subject: Floppy drive alignment tools In-Reply-To: <3F888A1A.93C6165A@RicVa.net> from "GenealogyPro" at Oct 11, 3 06:54:18 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2687 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20031013/b7303a2e/attachment.ksh From eric at brouhaha.com Mon Oct 13 18:15:29 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:27 2005 Subject: cctalk Digest, Vol 2, Issue 13 In-Reply-To: References: from"Fred N. van Kempen" at Oct 9, 3 08:29:18 am Message-ID: <1454.4.20.168.153.1066086929.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Tony wrote: > A _REAL_ Retroist(tm) has a VAX 11/7x0 in the bedroom :-) Um, no, a PDP-10. Who wants those newfangled VAX things? If it doesn't have 36 bits, you're not playing with a full DEC. From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Mon Oct 13 18:23:31 2003 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:27 2005 Subject: cctalk Digest, Vol 2, Issue 13 References: from"Fred N. van Kempen" at Oct 9, 3 08:29:18 am <1454.4.20.168.153.1066086929.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <3F8B33F3.1000500@jetnet.ab.ca> Eric Smith wrote: > Tony wrote: >>A _REAL_ Retroist(tm) has a VAX 11/7x0 in the bedroom :-) > Um, no, a PDP-10. Who wants those newfangled VAX things? If > it doesn't have 36 bits, you're not playing with a full DEC. You must have a BIG bedroom then. :) Note I would not mind playing with a modern FPGA version of the 10 providing about a 200% speed increase, and still have the Classic computer look and still be REPAIRABLE 40 years from now. What I don't like is the feel of the software emulators. Ben. From tothwolf at concentric.net Mon Oct 13 20:09:09 2003 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:28 2005 Subject: Interesting video board....free! In-Reply-To: <3F8AA32F.F16088ED@comcast.net> References: <3F8AA32F.F16088ED@comcast.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 13 Oct 2003, David Woyciesjes wrote: > Gene Buckle wrote: > > > In cleaning out some of my old stuff, I ran across a Diamond Stealth > > 64 PCI VGA card. What makes it interesting is that it's got a full > > size 15 pin d-sub connector instead of the 9 pin size, high density 15 > > pin d-sub connector. > > > > The chipset is an S3 Vision968. > > > > Anyone that's interested can have it for the cost of shipping. > > I wonder, was that in a Mac computer? IIRC, that's what Mac monitors use > to have... >From the description, it is a Mac version of what used to be a very common PCI video card. The only differences that I'm aware of are the BIOS and a slight change to the PC board where the video output connector is located. Diamond branded boards and S3 chipset based boards are still on my want-list in case anyone else comes across such things... -Toth From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Oct 13 20:20:52 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:28 2005 Subject: cctalk Digest, Vol 2, Issue 13 In-Reply-To: <1454.4.20.168.153.1066086929.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> from "Eric Smith" at Oct 13, 3 04:15:29 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 225 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20031014/e4b69b97/attachment.ksh From doc at mdrconsult.com Mon Oct 13 21:45:09 2003 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:28 2005 Subject: cctalk Digest, Vol 2, Issue 13 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3F8B6335.1030106@mdrconsult.com> Tony Duell wrote: >>>>Ok , you leave her there. I'll carry her to the bedroom. :) >>> >>>Bedroom? Wheres your sense of adventure? ;) >> >>"A Real Retroist(tm) does it... on top of a VAX 11/7x0 !" .. > > > A _REAL_ Retroist(tm) has a VAX 11/7x0 in the bedroom :-) Heh. There's a PDP11V03-L in its original low-rise cabinet, with RX02, that's a serious candidate for becoming my nightstand. It's the right height, and it's just so *cute*! Doc ObCCmp: I'm looking for a QBus RX02 controller that'll LL-format disks. I hear they exist, and right now I have about 30 pounds of very interesting 8" placemats. From eric at brouhaha.com Tue Oct 14 00:26:00 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:28 2005 Subject: cctalk Digest, Vol 2, Issue 13 In-Reply-To: <3F8B6335.1030106@mdrconsult.com> References: <3F8B6335.1030106@mdrconsult.com> Message-ID: <32803.64.169.63.74.1066109160.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> "Doc Shipley" wrote: > ObCCmp: I'm looking for a QBus RX02 controller that'll LL-format disks. > I hear they exist, and right now I have about 30 pounds of very > interesting 8" placemats. There isn't an RX02 controller that can do that, because the RX02 drive box itself can't do it. But if you want to hook up generic 8-inch floppy drives with a Qbus controller that is software-compatible with the RXV21 and can format disks, I recommend the MXV21 or MXV22. A Google search reveals that Keyways claims to have them in stock. From vcf at siconic.com Mon Oct 13 16:37:57 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:28 2005 Subject: HP2100 mini for donation (fwd) Message-ID: Here is someone in The Netherlands who has a nice HP2100 to give away. Please contact the original sender. Reply-to: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 15:24:48 +0200 From: Michiel Ettema To: donate@vintage.org Subject: HP2100 mini for donation Hi, I have an old (1971) HP2100 mini system and reel tape unit taken up space here and wonder if you are interested in it. For more information on the system see http://www.gifford.co.uk/~coredump/hp2100s.htm The system was previously used at ESTEC (http://www.estec.esa.nl/) after which it was donated to my school which threw it away. Being a scavenger at the time I decided to take it with me and it has been in my possesion since. Regards, Michiel Ettema -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to Tue Oct 14 07:36:08 2003 From: jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:28 2005 Subject: cctalk Digest, Vol 2, Issue 13 References: <3F8B6335.1030106@mdrconsult.com> Message-ID: <3F8BEDB8.111F8DAF@compsys.to> >Doc Shipley wrote: > ObCCmp: I'm looking for a QBus RX02 controller that'll LL-format disks. > I hear they exist, and right now I have about 30 pounds of very > interesting 8" placemats. Jerome Fine replies: DEC never supported the ability to do an LLF on 8" floppy media. Neither the RX01 nor the RX02 drives and their controllers could do so. HOWEVER, MOST 3rd party controllers and drives could do so. In particular, the DSD 440 and the DSD 880 had an 8" RX02 compatible drive and could do an LLF (off-line) on the floppy media. I presume that other systems that were RX01 / RX02 compatible could do so as well. I still have a number of the DSD 880 drives, but I am in Toronto and they are VERY heavy! They have not been powered on for a number of years, so I do not know their current status! Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue Oct 14 08:21:38 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:28 2005 Subject: air filters Message-ID: <006901c39256$197beaa0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> I was looking for air filters for DEC RK05, HP7900A, and HP7906. I found one website that I sent an email to the company asking for prices and here's what I got: DEC RK05 - 67.00 HP 7900A- 74.00 HP 7906 - 73.50 This just seems ludicrous to me. Anyone know of better priced sources? Jay West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From lcourtney at mvista.com Tue Oct 14 09:04:13 2003 From: lcourtney at mvista.com (Lee Courtney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:28 2005 Subject: VCF 6.0 In-Reply-To: <006901c39256$197beaa0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <000b01c3925c$0ca87900$2000000a@lcourtney22k> Hi all, I just wanted to congratulate Sellam and thank all the attendees and Exhibitors at last weekends VCF. It was the best VCF I've attended, well organized, with a fantastic lineup of speakers, lots of attendees and of course great exhibits from the amazing retro-computing community. Personally I was sorry I couldn't attend all the talks - especially the talk on the IBM 5100 and APL. Looking forward to attending and helping with next years event. Lee Courtney P.S. Did I mention the fantastic venue at the Computer History Museum?! ;-) From wh.sudbrink at verizon.net Tue Oct 14 09:57:16 2003 From: wh.sudbrink at verizon.net (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:28 2005 Subject: VCF 6.0 In-Reply-To: <000b01c3925c$0ca87900$2000000a@lcourtney22k> Message-ID: > I just wanted to congratulate Sellam and thank all the attendees and > Exhibitors at last weekends VCF. It was the best VCF I've attended Any pictures? From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Tue Oct 14 10:52:47 2003 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:28 2005 Subject: VCF 6.0 Message-ID: > > I just wanted to congratulate Sellam and thank all the attendees and > > Exhibitors at last weekends VCF. It was the best VCF I've attended > > Any pictures? I've got some up at http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcf6.shtml. The X's will be replaced by descriptions of each photo, display or event once I get a bit of time (hopefully within the next day or two). Please email me if you have any questions, issues, comments or anything you want to add to the (currently nonexistent) picture descriptions Erik Klein www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum The Vintage Computer Forum From chejmw at acsu.buffalo.edu Tue Oct 14 11:44:17 2003 From: chejmw at acsu.buffalo.edu (James M. Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:28 2005 Subject: air filters References: <006901c39256$197beaa0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <003901c39272$687486a0$317ecd80@chem.buffalo.edu> get the dimensions and go to home depot, and see what is available, you will be AMAZED! Jim WB2FCN "Work Smarter, not Harder! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jay West" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2003 9:21 AM Subject: air filters > I was looking for air filters for DEC RK05, HP7900A, and HP7906. I found one > website that I sent an email to the company asking for prices and here's > what I got: > > DEC RK05 - 67.00 > HP 7900A- 74.00 > HP 7906 - 73.50 > > This just seems ludicrous to me. Anyone know of better priced sources? > > Jay West > > > --- > [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > > From frustum at pacbell.net Tue Oct 14 11:33:28 2003 From: frustum at pacbell.net (Jim Battle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:28 2005 Subject: VCF 6.0 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3F8C2558.7050002@pacbell.net> Erik Klein wrote: > >>>I just wanted to congratulate Sellam and thank all the attendees and >>>Exhibitors at last weekends VCF. It was the best VCF I've attended >> >>Any pictures? > > > I've got some up at http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcf6.shtml. The > X's will be replaced by descriptions of each photo, display or event > once I get a bit of time (hopefully within the next day or two). > > Please email me if you have any questions, issues, comments or anything > you want to add to the (currently nonexistent) picture descriptions For this picture: http://www.vintage-computer.com/images/vcf6/hans.jpg how about this caption? Hans doing his Supreme's "Stop In the Name of Love" imitation From jpl15 at panix.com Tue Oct 14 13:13:43 2003 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:28 2005 Subject: air filters In-Reply-To: <003901c39272$687486a0$317ecd80@chem.buffalo.edu> References: <006901c39256$197beaa0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <003901c39272$687486a0$317ecd80@chem.buffalo.edu> Message-ID: On Tue, 14 Oct 2003, James M. Walker wrote: > get the dimensions and go to home depot, and see what is available, you will > be AMAZED! Ya know - Home Depot starts carrying HEPA filters for Legacy Disk Drives - I damn sure **will** be amazed - prolly have the Big One and fall over dead right there! Not bloody likely, though ya never know! Cheers John PS: Just try asking a Home Depot Associate for a HEPA Filter that fits your DEC RL02.... ;} From pcw at mesanet.com Tue Oct 14 13:32:16 2003 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:28 2005 Subject: air filters In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 14 Oct 2003, John Lawson wrote: > > > On Tue, 14 Oct 2003, James M. Walker wrote: > > > get the dimensions and go to home depot, and see what is available, you will > > be AMAZED! > > > Ya know - Home Depot starts carrying HEPA filters for Legacy Disk Drives > - I damn sure **will** be amazed - prolly have the Big One and fall over > dead right there! > > Not bloody likely, though ya never know! > > Cheers > > John > > PS: Just try asking a Home Depot Associate for a HEPA Filter that fits > your DEC RL02.... ;} > Though this does make one think that it may not be that hard to steal the paper filter from an existing (larger) HEPA filter , cut it to the proper size, and hot melt it into the old filter casing... Peter Wallace From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue Oct 14 13:50:51 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:28 2005 Subject: air filters References: <006901c39256$197beaa0$033310ac@kwcorp.com><003901c39272$687486a0$317ecd80@chem.buffalo.edu> Message-ID: <077201c39284$16f996a0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> at least on the 7900 and 7906, the air filter media which is probably what James was referring to, is permanently sealed into the filter enclosure. You can't just replace the media. Jay West ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Lawson" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2003 1:13 PM Subject: Re: air filters > > > On Tue, 14 Oct 2003, James M. Walker wrote: > > > get the dimensions and go to home depot, and see what is available, you will > > be AMAZED! > > > Ya know - Home Depot starts carrying HEPA filters for Legacy Disk Drives > - I damn sure **will** be amazed - prolly have the Big One and fall over > dead right there! > > Not bloody likely, though ya never know! > > Cheers > > John > > PS: Just try asking a Home Depot Associate for a HEPA Filter that fits > your DEC RL02.... ;} > > --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Oct 14 13:55:42 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:28 2005 Subject: VCF 6.0 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20031014114835.O66722@newshell.lmi.net> On Tue, 14 Oct 2003, Erik Klein wrote: > I've got some up at http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcf6.shtml. The > X's will be replaced by descriptions of each photo, display or event > once I get a bit of time (hopefully within the next day or two). > Please email me if you have any questions, issues, comments or anything > you want to add to the (currently nonexistent) picture descriptions "Vendor5" was my booth. Your "Northstar Newsletter #1" sat out on the blue table for more than a day, even getting passed up by an "all you can carry for $5". I brought a couple of totes of Maynard and JLaser/JRAM add-on boards, but couldn't remember who had been looking for them. -- Fred Cisin cisin@xenosoft.com XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue Oct 14 13:57:35 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:28 2005 Subject: Xebec Apple II controller In-Reply-To: Geoff Reed "Xebec Apple II controller" (Oct 11, 18:36) References: <10310100636.ZM24000@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <6.0.0.22.2.20031011183532.04984040@mail.zipcon.net> Message-ID: <10310141957.ZM29799@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Oct 11, 18:36, Geoff Reed wrote: > dug up an apple II that has a Xebec apple II controller init, is this a > SCSI controller? or is it a SASI host interface that's gonna need an > external SASI<->ST506 controller on it? Didn't anybody answer this? I've got a small Apple ][ card which might be its twin... Mine says "APPLE 2/3 XEBEC INTERFACE REV1" on the top edge. It has a 6522 VIA chip, some LSTTL, 2732 EPROM, a RAM chip, a couple of 74S240s, and a terminator pack next to a 26-pin header. I don't know what this is supposed to connect to; it might be SASI (it has just about enough pins and just about enough I/O), and that's certainly what Xebec were famous for. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From rdd at rddavis.org Tue Oct 14 14:09:45 2003 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:28 2005 Subject: air filters In-Reply-To: References: <006901c39256$197beaa0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <003901c39272$687486a0$317ecd80@chem.buffalo.edu> Message-ID: <20031014190442.GI12185@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe John Lawson, from writings of Tue, Oct 14, 2003 at 02:13:43PM -0400: > PS: Just try asking a Home Depot Associate for a HEPA Filter that fits > your DEC RL02.... ;} Isn't that a mean thing to do? ;-) After all, some of the clerks in those stores get rather confused when one asks for some basic hardware for home repairs, such as "real" windows panes---that is, wavy with lead in them, or for the square center shaft of a doorknob... items that one could find in "real" hardware stores. It never ceases to amaze me how much in the way of actual hardware, from the right washer, hinge, bolt or pulley, to the right type of paint, one could find in a small hardware store with wooden floors and narrow aisles as opposed to not being able to find what one wants in those huge so-called hardware stores that sell everything from warped knotty wood and plastic bathtubs to snowblowers and a huge array of light-fixtures with plastic sockets that will melt if one puts anything larger than a 60 watt bulb in them. -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue Oct 14 14:03:29 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:28 2005 Subject: identify this ISA card? Message-ID: <10310142003.ZM29807@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> This one's barely on-topic, as it has a silkscreen legend which states "(C) 1992 GSM-SYNTEL LTD". Above that it says SYN-PC302. It has a couple of Actel FPGAs on it, and space for another similar-sized IC, three 75160 interface ICs next to a 26-pin male box header, spaces for 8 ZIP devices (RAM?), and spaces for two miniDIN sockets (an 8-pin and a 9-pin). Anyone have any idea what it might be? -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue Oct 14 14:11:47 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:28 2005 Subject: air filters References: Message-ID: <078401c39287$036692c0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> > Though this does make one think that it may not be that hard to steal the > paper filter from an existing (larger) HEPA filter , cut it to the proper > size, and hot melt it into the old filter casing... Of course, bear in mind you're in for some spectacular crashes if the filter media you get at home depot doesn't have exactly the same airflow (density) as the one you replace. The air flow through the filter media is very carefully calculated to get the right amount of air into the media cavity so the heads can fly on that cusion of air. I seem to recall the head disk gap on a 7906 is about 20 microinches or so? I don't think I'll be playing "test the unknown filter media" games anytime soon. Jay --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From aek at spies.com Tue Oct 14 14:37:23 2003 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:28 2005 Subject: air filters Message-ID: <200310141937.h9EJbN4p025508@spies.com> > Anyone know of better priced sources? They have been showing up on eBay for less than that. 2733419572 jun 6 21.50 RK05 air filter How much does Crisis want for 79xx filters? From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Tue Oct 14 14:57:05 2003 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:28 2005 Subject: Xebec Apple II controller Message-ID: <50.236f3a80.2cbdaf11@aol.com> In a message dated 10/14/2003 3:44:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time, pete@dunnington.u-net.com writes: << On Oct 11, 18:36, Geoff Reed wrote: > dug up an apple II that has a Xebec apple II controller init, is this a > SCSI controller? or is it a SASI host interface that's gonna need an > external SASI<->ST506 controller on it? Didn't anybody answer this? I've got a small Apple ][ card which might be its twin... Mine says "APPLE 2/3 XEBEC INTERFACE REV1" on the top edge. It has a 6522 VIA chip, some LSTTL, 2732 EPROM, a RAM chip, a couple of 74S240s, and a terminator pack next to a 26-pin header. I don't know what this is supposed to connect to; it might be SASI (it has just about enough pins and just about enough I/O), and that's certainly what Xebec were famous for. >> Isn't this used for the Sider hard drive? If so, I have both parts but just need a cable. From rhudson at cnonline.net Tue Oct 14 15:01:25 2003 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:28 2005 Subject: 400K 800K Mac OS system disks Message-ID: <30D57ED7-FE81-11D7-AC42-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> Chris - They got here! thanks! Everyone - Thanks for all your help. :^) My MacSE will now have a proper system on it! From chejmw at acsu.buffalo.edu Tue Oct 14 15:11:34 2003 From: chejmw at acsu.buffalo.edu (James M. Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:28 2005 Subject: air filters References: <006901c39256$197beaa0$033310ac@kwcorp.com><003901c39272$687486a0$317ecd80@chem.buffalo.edu> <20031014190442.GI12185@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <001701c3928f$5d83c040$317ecd80@chem.buffalo.edu> Oh yes, I particularly like the way their faces glaze over when I say, Yes, I am looking for filters for my 1000 watt transmitter! Their response is usually, we aren't allowed to sell transmitters here! Well Duhhhh! Another one is where do you keep something like that? I respond, why on my 1000 watt transmitter shelf! Jim WB2FCN ----- Original Message ----- From: "R. D. Davis" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2003 3:04 PM Subject: Re: air filters > Quothe John Lawson, from writings of Tue, Oct 14, 2003 at 02:13:43PM -0400: > > PS: Just try asking a Home Depot Associate for a HEPA Filter that fits > > your DEC RL02.... ;} > > Isn't that a mean thing to do? ;-) After all, some of the clerks in > those stores get rather confused when one asks for some basic hardware > for home repairs, such as "real" windows panes---that is, wavy with > lead in them, or for the square center shaft of a doorknob... items > that one could find in "real" hardware stores. It never ceases to > amaze me how much in the way of actual hardware, from the right > washer, hinge, bolt or pulley, to the right type of paint, one could > find in a small hardware store with wooden floors and narrow aisles as > opposed to not being able to find what one wants in those huge > so-called hardware stores that sell everything from warped knotty wood > and plastic bathtubs to snowblowers and a huge array of light-fixtures > with plastic sockets that will melt if one puts anything larger than a > 60 watt bulb in them. > > -- > Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: > All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & > rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such > http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. > > From pcw at mesanet.com Tue Oct 14 16:06:53 2003 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:28 2005 Subject: air filters In-Reply-To: <078401c39287$036692c0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 14 Oct 2003, Jay West wrote: > > Though this does make one think that it may not be that hard to steal the > > paper filter from an existing (larger) HEPA filter , cut it to the proper > > size, and hot melt it into the old filter casing... > > Of course, bear in mind you're in for some spectacular crashes if the filter > media you get at home depot doesn't have exactly the same airflow (density) > as the one you replace. The air flow through the filter media is very > carefully calculated to get the right amount of air into the media cavity so > the heads can fly on that cusion of air. I seem to recall the head disk gap > on a 7906 is about 20 microinches or so? I don't think I'll be playing "test > the unknown filter media" games anytime soon. > > Jay > > --- > [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > Actually thats not true at all, there is very little you can do that will change the air pressure in the HDA (short of moving to a different altitude). The air pressure/media speed/head geometry/head loading pressure determine the flying height, the filter will have little or no affect on that. The filter pressure drop will determine how much of the circulating air goes through the filter and how much bypasses it... Peter Wallace From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Oct 14 16:50:52 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:28 2005 Subject: cctalk Digest, Vol 2, Issue 13 In-Reply-To: <3F8B6335.1030106@mdrconsult.com> from "Doc Shipley" at Oct 13, 3 09:45:09 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 665 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20031014/fcc1c6c0/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Oct 14 16:53:19 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:28 2005 Subject: air filters In-Reply-To: <006901c39256$197beaa0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> from "Jay West" at Oct 14, 3 08:21:38 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 667 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20031014/fba99d79/attachment.ksh From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Tue Oct 14 17:30:23 2003 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:28 2005 Subject: air filters References: Message-ID: <3F8C78FF.10807@jetnet.ab.ca> Tony Duell wrote: > [1] I have long suspected that DEC stands for 'Darn Expensive Components' :-) So is HP for Higher Priced? > -tony > > From pat at purdueriots.com Tue Oct 14 18:09:00 2003 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:28 2005 Subject: cctalk Digest, Vol 2, Issue 13 In-Reply-To: <3F8BEDB8.111F8DAF@compsys.to> References: <3F8B6335.1030106@mdrconsult.com> <3F8BEDB8.111F8DAF@compsys.to> Message-ID: <200310141809.00900.pat@purdueriots.com> On Tuesday 14 October 2003 07:36, Jerome H. Fine wrote: > HOWEVER, MOST 3rd party controllers and drives could > do so. In particular, the DSD 440 and the DSD 880 had an > 8" RX02 compatible drive and could do an LLF (off-line) > on the floppy media. I presume that other systems that were > RX01 / RX02 compatible could do so as well. I've got a DSD880, does anyone know if there's a "HyperDiagnostic" pair of numbers I can use to format a floppy as an RX01/RX02? Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue Oct 14 18:13:51 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:28 2005 Subject: Xebec Apple II controller In-Reply-To: SUPRDAVE@aol.com "Re: Xebec Apple II controller" (Oct 14, 15:57) References: <50.236f3a80.2cbdaf11@aol.com> Message-ID: <10310150013.ZM731@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Oct 14, 15:57, SUPRDAVE@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 10/14/2003 3:44:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > pete@dunnington.u-net.com writes: > > Mine says "APPLE 2/3 XEBEC INTERFACE REV1" on the top edge. > > Isn't this used for the Sider hard drive? If so, I have both parts but just > need a cable. Sounds plausible. Mine came on its own, no cables, no drive, so I'd be interested to know what's "inside the box". I assume an ST506 drive, a PSU, a Xebec card, and probably something to connect a ribbon cable to. Is there a connector on the outside of the drive box? If so, what type is it? We could probably work out the pinout required. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From rdd at rddavis.org Tue Oct 14 18:36:36 2003 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:28 2005 Subject: air filters In-Reply-To: <3F8C78FF.10807@jetnet.ab.ca> References: <3F8C78FF.10807@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <20031014233138.GJ12185@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe ben franchuk, from writings of Tue, Oct 14, 2003 at 04:30:23PM -0600: > So is HP for Higher Priced? Actually, these days, since HP turned its test equipment into effiminate and cheap-looking rubbish---with a new name to match, did away with it's excellent scientific calculators that used RPN and began producing annoying computers, it seems to have changed what those letters represent to better match its new image: HP now stands for: "Hmmmpf! Pfffooey!" officially, and, unofficially, "Hackless Products." -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From doc at mdrconsult.com Tue Oct 14 18:46:15 2003 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:28 2005 Subject: cctalk Digest, Vol 2, Issue 13 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3F8C8AC7.1010406@mdrconsult.com> Tony Duell wrote: > If you want to keep the DEC drives and controller (and I would), then the > easiest solution is to format the disks single-density (IBM 3740 format) > in, say. a CP/M machine, and then use the DEC RX02 to reformat them as > RX02 double-density disks. That's what I do, anyway. Oh, great. Now I gotta go find a CP/M machine. Oh, the humanity! ;) Doc From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Tue Oct 14 18:53:22 2003 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:28 2005 Subject: VCF 6.0 pictures Message-ID: <000001c392ae$5a626af0$947ba8c0@p933> I added descriptions to the pictures and integrated the VCF 6 stuff with the rest of my site. Feel free to check out www.vintage-computer.com/vcf6.shtml and please let me know what you think, especially if I missed something, misidentified someone or otherwise messed up. The show was truly awesome this year. I can't wait to hear the attendance numbers from Sellam. I'm pretty sure records were broken. The displays were amazing, as always, and the computers were incredible as well. It's fun to realize that you were in the same building as 3 of the maybe 30 or 40 remaining Apple Is in existence. There were two equally rare Mark-8s in attendance and several other machines that you just don't see every day. Thanks! Erik Klein www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum The Vintage Computer Forum From ian_primus at yahoo.com Tue Oct 14 19:03:58 2003 From: ian_primus at yahoo.com (Ian Primus) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:28 2005 Subject: repainting plastic terminal parts Message-ID: <12F78777-FEA3-11D7-8D99-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> I recently got an old Adds Regent 30 terminal (it says "Honeywell" on the front, must have been rebadged). I have repaired the electronics (I took pictures and documented the process, I'll put it on my website when it's ready), and the terminal works now. It was extremely filthy, however, and I cleaned up the outer shell with a little windex with no problems, but the brown plastic around the monitor and the keyboard was very sticky. I tried cleaning the plastic around the keyboard with just plain water, and with Windex, but it was still very sticky. I tested some Goo Gone on the back of the part, and it didn't damage anything, so I used it on the front. It appears that the paint is coming off. The Goo Gone made it come off a little, and I noticed that on the rest of it, just rubbing it with my finger could cause the paint to come off. It appears that whatever grime got onto the terminal ate away at the paint, as the paint on the inside does not have this problem. Here's my question - what is the best way to go about painting things like this? It was originally a dull finish (I think), do they make spray paint that has similar properties? Does it come in "Honeywell Brown"? Has anyone had experience painting plastics, or repainted any computer cases before? Any help would be appreciated. Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com From esharpe at uswest.net Tue Oct 14 21:56:30 2003 From: esharpe at uswest.net (ed sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:28 2005 Subject: ****Re: air filters References: <006901c39256$197beaa0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <003901c39272$687486a0$317ecd80@chem.buffalo.edu> Message-ID: <009001c392ca$b1b16d30$0100a8c0@SONYDIGITALED> Huh? home depot sells absolute filters for disk drives? ----- Original Message ----- From: "James M. Walker" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2003 9:44 AM Subject: Re: air filters > get the dimensions and go to home depot, and see what is available, you will > be > AMAZED! > Jim > WB2FCN > "Work Smarter, not Harder! > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jay West" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2003 9:21 AM > Subject: air filters > > > > I was looking for air filters for DEC RK05, HP7900A, and HP7906. I found > one > > website that I sent an email to the company asking for prices and here's > > what I got: > > > > DEC RK05 - 67.00 > > HP 7900A- 74.00 > > HP 7906 - 73.50 > > > > This just seems ludicrous to me. Anyone know of better priced sources? > > > > Jay West > > > > > > --- > > [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > > > > > > > From geoffr at zipcon.net Tue Oct 14 22:26:48 2003 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:29 2005 Subject: Xebec Apple II controller In-Reply-To: <50.236f3a80.2cbdaf11@aol.com> References: <50.236f3a80.2cbdaf11@aol.com> Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.2.20031014202531.04953b30@mail.zipcon.net> At 12:57 PM 10/14/03, you wrote: >Isn't this used for the Sider hard drive? If so, I have both parts but just >need a cable. Talking to the original owner of the apple II, Yes, it was hooked to a sider hard drive, but he couldn't remember if the sider was just a SCSI drive in the case or if it was a SASI-ST506 bridgecard and drive in the case.... From esharpe at uswest.net Tue Oct 14 22:24:42 2003 From: esharpe at uswest.net (ed sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:29 2005 Subject: air filters References: <078401c39287$036692c0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <00dd01c392cb$e3d3f0c0$0100a8c0@SONYDIGITALED> one thing I always had respect for was getting the correct filter... anything else was fair game for the duct tape and bailing wire but did NOT want crashes! Thanks Ed Sharpe archivist for SMECC Please check our web site at http://www.smecc.org to see other engineering fields, communications and computation stuff we buy, and by all means when in Arizona drop in and see us. address: coury house / smecc 5802 w palmaire ave glendale az 85301 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jay West" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2003 12:11 PM Subject: Re: air filters > > Though this does make one think that it may not be that hard to steal the > > paper filter from an existing (larger) HEPA filter , cut it to the proper > > size, and hot melt it into the old filter casing... > > Of course, bear in mind you're in for some spectacular crashes if the filter > media you get at home depot doesn't have exactly the same airflow (density) > as the one you replace. The air flow through the filter media is very > carefully calculated to get the right amount of air into the media cavity so > the heads can fly on that cusion of air. I seem to recall the head disk gap > on a 7906 is about 20 microinches or so? I don't think I'll be playing "test > the unknown filter media" games anytime soon. > > Jay > > --- > [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > > > From esharpe at uswest.net Tue Oct 14 22:42:44 2003 From: esharpe at uswest.net (ed sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:29 2005 Subject: VCF 6.0 pictures References: <000001c392ae$5a626af0$947ba8c0@p933> Message-ID: <00f301c392ce$65909bc0$0100a8c0@SONYDIGITALED> great pictures thanks for sharing! all wonderful things! ed sharpe ----- Original Message ----- From: "Erik S. Klein" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2003 4:53 PM Subject: VCF 6.0 pictures > I added descriptions to the pictures and integrated the VCF 6 stuff with > the rest of my site. Feel free to check out > www.vintage-computer.com/vcf6.shtml and please let me know what you > think, especially if I missed something, misidentified someone or > otherwise messed up. > > The show was truly awesome this year. I can't wait to hear the > attendance numbers from Sellam. I'm pretty sure records were broken. > > The displays were amazing, as always, and the computers were incredible > as well. It's fun to realize that you were in the same building as 3 of > the maybe 30 or 40 remaining Apple Is in existence. There were two > equally rare Mark-8s in attendance and several other machines that you > just don't see every day. > > Thanks! > > Erik Klein > www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum > The Vintage Computer Forum > > > From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Wed Oct 15 01:43:51 2003 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:29 2005 Subject: cctalk Digest, Vol 2, Issue 13 In-Reply-To: <200310141809.00900.pat@purdueriots.com>; from pat@purdueriots.com on Wed, Oct 15, 2003 at 01:09:00 %z References: <3F8B6335.1030106@mdrconsult.com> <3F8BEDB8.111F8DAF@compsys.to> <200310141809.00900.pat@purdueriots.com> Message-ID: <20031015064351.GE350776@MrPomeroy2> On 2003.10.15 01:09 Patrick Finnegan wrote: > I've got a DSD880, does anyone know if there's a "HyperDiagnostic" > pair of numbers I can use to format a floppy as an RX01/RX02? I don't know if this will help you, but: I have a MXV21 QBus to SA800 RX02 emulating 8" floppy controller. (With a 5.25" drive.) I use the folowing on a MicroVAX boot prompt to start a format: Single density d/p/w 20001E78 9 d/p/w 20001E7A 92 Double density d/p/w 20001E78 109 d/p/w 20001E7A 92 -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From meltie at meltie.com Wed Oct 15 06:31:03 2003 From: meltie at meltie.com (Alex White) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:29 2005 Subject: InfoServer emulator? Message-ID: <200310151231.03548.meltie@meltie.com> Does anyone have any information on the InfoServer emulator project for OpenVMS/Alpha? alex/melt From waltje at pdp11.nl Wed Oct 15 08:38:11 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:29 2005 Subject: InfoServer emulator? In-Reply-To: <200310151231.03548.meltie@meltie.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 15 Oct 2003, Alex White wrote: > Does anyone have any information on the InfoServer emulator project for > OpenVMS/Alpha? Dunno about that project, but I am indeed working on a LASTport service in C, as a companion to the MOP and LAT services I already did. Will be quite a while before it gets out, but: it will. --f From vcf at siconic.com Wed Oct 15 02:08:06 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:29 2005 Subject: ICL DRS6000 Message-ID: Anyone have info on the ICL DRS6000? Bob Garner is seeking it out. See below. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 23:52:14 -0700 From: Bob Garner To: vcf@siconic.com Subject: VCF Feedback! Looking for any info you might have on an old ICL DRS6000, got one sitting here just being used as a table for now Regards Bob -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From RCini at congressfinancial.com Wed Oct 15 10:21:32 2003 From: RCini at congressfinancial.com (Cini, Richard) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:29 2005 Subject: Cleaning my closet Message-ID: <69DBC74E5784D6119BEA0090271EB8E5FA3E8A@MAIL10> Hello, all: I'm doing some spring cleaning (six months late) and I'm offering this stuff up to the list first. Items are as-is and last status, if remembered, is listed. I know that a few are pretty common, but I feel bad about just pitching them into the dumpster without at least offering them up first. I may ultimately resort to selling some on eBay if no one wants them. Some items are heavy and would need a local pickup. My location is Nassau County, New York (Long Island). Here's the list: * MacPortable (non-backlit). Working when last used, with spare batteries, desktop charger and carrying case. Screen has a line of bad pixels near the bottom. * PC/Convertible. Working although battery is shot. I believe that I have boot disks for this, too. * PC Portable. Working; very clean. Very heavy (really a PC with a handle). Comes with some software but I haven't taken a complete inventory. Might be shippable by UPS. * DEC MicroVAX 1 in tower case with spare parts (including RD52 drives and spare boards). Working last time I used it 3 years ago. Has Ultrix v.4 on it (no distribution disks unfortunately). Very heavy. Pickup only. * 3 Pentium Pro 200 MHZ/256k CPUs. Unmatched steppings (SL22V, SL22T, SL22M). When using in an SMP configuration, steppings should be the same. I ran into this when setting-up the dual-CPU ProLiant server at home. * Apple Ethernet CS card (part number M3065Z/A) for late-model Macs. * Promise Technologies EIDE4030T caching IDE card for VL bus. As I recall, this was the "bee's knees" of IDE cards in the 486 era. * Spare Kilobaud magazines: 12/78, 1/79 * Spare BYTE magazines: 12/77, 1/78, 1/81, 6/81, 7/81, 11/81, 12/81, 1/82, 10/83, 9/85, 10/85 (2), 2/86, 6/86, 10/86, 11/86, 9/87, 10/87 Payment? Trade or cost of shipping. Here's what I'm looking for: * S-100 video board with docs/SW. * Ciarcia SB180 single-board computer. * Altair documents/manuals for my Altair32 emulation project (reminder, http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/Altair32.htm) * Broken arcade game in upright cabinet with monitor (horizontal configuration; for MAME project). Will have to work something out on the shipping due to its size and weight. This one probably best if local. * Plastic case for the KIM-1 * 6502 pod for Fluke 9010A troubleshooter * 6502-related magazines * Other?? Please contact me off-list at xyzzy_r_cini@nospam.optonline.net (remove xyzzy, underscores and nospam.) if anyone's interested. Thanks. Rich Cini From meltie at meltie.com Wed Oct 15 10:37:17 2003 From: meltie at meltie.com (Alex White) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:29 2005 Subject: InfoServer emulator? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200310151637.17007.meltie@meltie.com> On Wednesday 15 Oct 2003 2:38 pm, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > On Wed, 15 Oct 2003, Alex White wrote: > > Does anyone have any information on the InfoServer emulator project > > for OpenVMS/Alpha? > > Dunno about that project, but I am indeed working on a > LASTport service in C, as a companion to the MOP and LAT > services I already did. > > Will be quite a while before it gets out, but: it will. Oh wow, fantastic! I'd got an inkling of a full InfoServer emulator and I did feel that a set of lastport services would have been a better task to embark on... From arcarlini at iee.org Wed Oct 15 11:27:47 2003 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:29 2005 Subject: InfoServer emulator? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001101c39339$454ed8c0$5b01a8c0@athlon> I'd completely forgotten about that - although it was a project to provide LAD/LAST services on OpenVMS Alpha (i.e. allow an Alpha to serve disks the same way an InfoServer does). Never heard much about it since, but you can try asking in comp.os.vms and see what they say. Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From aek at spies.com Wed Oct 15 11:34:05 2003 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:29 2005 Subject: ICL DRS6000 Message-ID: <200310151634.h9FGY52x019897@spies.com> Someone had one, and mentioned Bob Garner. He probably won't be very happy to hear what the guy did to it. http://eelco.prutsclub.nl/pruts/drs6000.html From sipke at wxs.nl Wed Oct 15 11:51:17 2003 From: sipke at wxs.nl (Sipke de Wal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:29 2005 Subject: ICL DRS6000 References: <200310151634.h9FGY52x019897@spies.com> Message-ID: <01ce01c3933c$8e10eaa0$030101ac@boll.casema.net> Yuk! I'm almost ashame to be dutch after reading this .... Sipke de Wal http://xgistor.ath.cx ----- Original Message ----- From: "Al Kossow" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2003 6:34 PM Subject: Re: ICL DRS6000 > > Someone had one, and mentioned Bob Garner. He probably won't be very happy > to hear what the guy did to it. > http://eelco.prutsclub.nl/pruts/drs6000.html From TRASH3 at splab.cas.neu.edu Wed Oct 15 14:11:24 2003 From: TRASH3 at splab.cas.neu.edu (TRASH3@splab.cas.neu.edu) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:29 2005 Subject: Manual for GTSC 304 Message-ID: <031015151125.13394@splab.cas.neu.edu> I will forward your request to Al, who has all the manuals for scanning. If he has not disposed of the manual yet, we will get it to you. Joe Heck From wrljet at yahoo.com Wed Oct 15 16:06:09 2003 From: wrljet at yahoo.com (Bill Lewis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:29 2005 Subject: PDP-11/34A's, 11/05, PDP-8/I backplane for sale in Northern VA In-Reply-To: <200310151719.h9FHJ1H5083511@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20031015210609.91464.qmail@web13605.mail.yahoo.com> Any interest among the group in a couple of PDP-11/34A machines and one 11/05? The two 11/34A's are in the 10-1/2" boxes. They each have core memory. I think 128K but I'm not sure. Have the calculator keyboard style front panel. Have the printset for the CPU. The 11/05 is the 5-1/4" box. Has core memory, interface card for paper tape reader/punch, and some other stuff. Plus the add-on upgrade core memory in another 5-1/4" box. I think it's 64K words total. Toggle switch front panel. Have the prints on the CPU and some other related documentation. No racks, and no other peripherals. Some UNIBUS cables and a few other random cards. The machines have been out of use for quite some time and are dusty, and I don't know if they work, but it's purely an as-is deal. Additionally, I have a PDP-8/I backplane available. No front panel and no cards. For pickup in person only, near Washington DC. Anybody here want to make me an offer before I put 'em on eBay? Bill __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com From ohh at drizzle.com Wed Oct 15 16:33:06 2003 From: ohh at drizzle.com (O. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:29 2005 Subject: DEC Pro 350 For Sale Message-ID: <3F8DBD12.D7E5B86E@drizzle.com> Hey, all: I'm meeting the nicest people lately. :) I've run into someone who has a DEC Pro 350 which he'd like to sell to a respectful owner. Here's his description of the system: > DEC Pro-350 (circa fall 1983) > 10GB drive > 2 400K floppies (400K each? 800K each? now I don't remember) > VT-220 style keyboard and display > hang-on copyholder for the monitor > vertical stand for the system unit > all P/OS diskettes and manuals > RSX-11M disks and manuals (some are copies) > Original boxes (unsure of the condition) > > LA-100PC printer > extra ribbons (if I can find them) - reinkable > some rom cartridges including Epson MX-80 emulation (again - if I can > find them) > no box - sorry > > The BIOS battery is probably dead by now, but it's 3 AAA nicads if I > remember. Other than that, it's ready to go. I found it an encouraging sign that he regretted not having the original printer box. :) Anyway, anyone who has an interest and/or questions and/or offers can contact the owner directly. His name's Ron Hansen, his e-mail is , and from the e-mails we've exchanged he sounds like a nice guy. :) Thanks! -O.- From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Oct 15 17:05:49 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:29 2005 Subject: air filters In-Reply-To: <20031014190442.GI12185@rhiannon.rddavis.org> from "R. D. Davis" at Oct 14, 3 03:04:42 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2225 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20031015/70c222fc/attachment.ksh From jpero at sympatico.ca Mon Oct 13 12:04:12 2003 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:29 2005 Subject: Found this. In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20031010213229.007d7d20@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <20031013210222.GAOQ9290.tomts13-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Saw this on our local newsgroups (kingston.forsale) Contact him not me please! quote: Contact: jrpart@excite.com Available are: QTY Description ----- ------------- 250 - Green LED Rectangular 5mm x 2mm (just the right size to slide into the cooling slots of a PC Case front bezel). 8000 - Red LED 5mm Diameter, Sharp P/N: GL5PR4 available in bags of 250 and boxes of 2000. 125 - TIL-311 Hexadecimal Dot Matrix Display with integral TTL driver electronics to accept, store & display 4-bit binary data, Epoxy package 8 - TIL-311A Hexadecimal Dot Matrix Display with integral TTL driver circuit to accept, store & display 4-bit binary data, Plastic package For a copy of the TIL311 Datasheet see: http://www-s.ti.com/sc/ds/til311.pdf and it is mirrored at http://umwnt1.physics.lsa.umich.edu/mttc/images/til311.pdf 9900 - 100 Ohm, 5%, 1/4 Watt Carbon film resistor, available in packages of 100 and boxes of 5000. Use it as a current limiting resistor to drive the above LEDs from a 3.3 Volt Supply. 3500 - 220 Ohm, 5%, 1/4 Watt Carbon film resistor, available in packages of 100. Use it as a current limiting resistor to drive the above LEDs from a 5 Volt Supply. 3800 - 680 Ohm, 5%, 1/4 Watt Carbon film resistor, available in packages of 100. Use it as a current limiting resistor to drive the above LEDs from a 12 Volt Supply. Here is the pricing including shipping on prepaid orders, COD is available for an additional $6.50. All parts/components are only sold in full packages. - Bag of 250 LEDs, $30 including shipping to anywhere in Canada - Box of 2000 LEDs, $155 including shipping to anywhere in Canada - 100 Resistors, $5 including shipping to anywhere in Canada - 5000 Resistors, $30 including shipping to anywhere in Ontario - 5000 Resistors, $35 including shipping to anywhere in Canada outside of Ontario Here is the pricing for the soldercup DB-25 connectors. The pricing is identical for Male and Female connectors. For either type, the contact surfaces have three micron Gold plating. All prices include tax: 1 - 49 pieces at $1.44 each 50 - 99 pieces at $1.21 each 100 pieces or more at $0.96 each The TIL311 and TIL311A Displays are $11 each (less than half of their wholesale price) For the DB-25 connectors and TIL311 displays the shipping is extra, since shipping charges depend on weight. So E-mail me for a quote if you want multiple items from the above list shipped. Please include your Postal Code. To purchase, e-mail me, in return I'll send you my address, phone number and payment instructions. Contact: jrpart@excite.com unquote. Wizard From chejmw at acsu.buffalo.edu Thu Oct 16 06:35:30 2003 From: chejmw at acsu.buffalo.edu (James M. Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:29 2005 Subject: air filters References: Message-ID: <006301c393d9$9a9be480$317ecd80@chem.buffalo.edu> Well, I've made my comments about the IQ/Intellectual level of "most" of the employees there however, seriously, you can't expect these people to know what you are talking about. For those with an interest in "POSSIBLY" restoring your older computer equipment. Go to Home Depot, pick a Free copy of the "PRO" catalog and take it home and thumb through it. If you are really serious about, not paying off the national debt to get stuff to keep your equipment back in operation. I go there, on slow days, and just walk around looking at things, that COULD be used to make/repair other things. Some of the items I have picked up and used were for: 6 meter portable beam antenna, 70 Cm Quad helical antenna, also for 1296, 1460 and 2304 Mhz antennas. Heavy duty Aluminum angle 1 X 1 for supports inside rack cabinets. 2 in. dia X 1/4 in thick aluminum tubing, used for vertical supports and also to make stands for my antenna test range. Hardware, loads, but you have to go there with a plan, as there "are" some unlikely candidates that show up. As for filters and filter materials, yes they indeed have various configurations of HEPA filters and also a lot of rather unique type as well. I might also mention, there are some older folks that work in these places that do indeed know what the heck they are about, lots of them are former employees of the very "Old Fashioned" hardware shops you mentioned, I think it was adapt or go hungry, that brought them to the Home Depot, they are some of them very knowledgeable and also extremely helpful! Just a THOUGHT Jim WB2FCN General Practicioner of the Electronic Art! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2003 6:05 PM Subject: Re: air filters > > > > Quothe John Lawson, from writings of Tue, Oct 14, 2003 at 02:13:43PM -0400: > > > PS: Just try asking a Home Depot Associate for a HEPA Filter that fits > > > your DEC RL02.... ;} > > > > Isn't that a mean thing to do? ;-) After all, some of the clerks in > > Oh, I don't know... It's no worse that going to one of those 'we build > computers to your specification' places and giving them the specification > for a PDP10 :-) :-) :-) > > > those stores get rather confused when one asks for some basic hardware > > for home repairs, such as "real" windows panes---that is, wavy with > > lead in them, or for the square center shaft of a doorknob... items > > that one could find in "real" hardware stores. It never ceases to > > Tell me about it :-(. Electronics shops are the same. At one time there > were places where you could get just about any component ever made... Now > we end up having to special-order 2.5mm jack sockets (OK, 3/32" submini > phone jacks to you) and quincuncial DIN plugs.... > > > amaze me how much in the way of actual hardware, from the right > > washer, hinge, bolt or pulley, to the right type of paint, one could > > find in a small hardware store with wooden floors and narrow aisles as > > A simple test. Look for a thin layer of dust over everything. This means > the place hasn't been cleaned for decades, so there's a good chance that > useful parts, last made 30 years ago, will still be on the shelf > somewhere, rather than having been thrown out. > > > opposed to not being able to find what one wants in those huge > > so-called hardware stores that sell everything from warped knotty wood > > And the princes i nthsoe sort of places (at least in the UK) are often a > factor of 2 or 3 higher than you pay in a _real_ hardware shop.... > > And don't get me started on the tools that such places fail to stock. > Those places seem to think that twist drills go up in 0.5mm steps, > whereas real tool shops stock them in at least 0.05mm steps, and possibly > 0.01mm steps (!). They stock a couple of different pairs of pliers, a > real tool shop stocks several dozen. And so on... > > As I've said before, I'm not rich enough to buy cheap tools, but that's > all these modern hardware stores seem to sell, so I don't bother... > > -tony > > From najay at najay.com Wed Oct 15 23:40:45 2003 From: najay at najay.com (george najarian) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:29 2005 Subject: hp 10391b inverse assembler toolkit availability Message-ID: <200310161333.h9GDXpH3086173@huey.classiccmp.org> last year you posted a link to the 10391b inverse assembler toolkit on HP (agilent)'s website. That link is not longer valid. Would it be possible to get a copy of the files from you, or a valid url/ftp link? I actually bought the disk with my hp1670a years ago but can't find it. Thanks for any help! George Najarian Najay Engineering, Inc. From vcf at siconic.com Thu Oct 16 03:00:33 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:29 2005 Subject: air filters In-Reply-To: <006301c393d9$9a9be480$317ecd80@chem.buffalo.edu> Message-ID: On Thu, 16 Oct 2003, James M. Walker wrote: > For those with an interest in "POSSIBLY" restoring your older computer > equipment. Go to Home Depot, pick a Free copy of the "PRO" catalog and > take it home and thumb through it. If you are really serious about, not > paying off the national debt to get stuff to keep your equipment back in > operation. I go there, on slow days, and just walk around looking at > things, that COULD be used to make/repair other things. I constructed my PDP-8 replica with materials all found at Home Depot (or Lowes since it's closer, but the people at HD in my area are pretty helpful). Their breadth of selection does have its limitations though. > I might also mention, there are some older folks that work in these > places that do indeed know what the heck they are about, lots of them > are former employees of the very "Old Fashioned" hardware shops you > mentioned, I think it was adapt or go hungry, that brought them to the > Home Depot, they are some of them very knowledgeable and also extremely > helpful! Many are also ex-tradesmen who do know their stuff. As with all situations, you can't go in there with preconceived notions that they're all idiots or else you'll ignore the person who really would be able to help you. I'm sure it's rare, but even Radio Shack has the occasional "diamond in the rough". -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From holger.veit at ais.fhg.de Mon Oct 13 09:25:23 2003 From: holger.veit at ais.fhg.de (Holger Veit) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:29 2005 Subject: TinyC, port to HP In-Reply-To: <3F8701D0.7080904@jetnet.ab.ca>; from bfranchuk@jetnet.ab.ca on Fri, Oct 10, 2003 at 01:00:32PM -0600 References: <006b01c38f5a$60b7e940$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <3F8701D0.7080904@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <20031013162523.A32188@ct-mail.citytraffic.de> On Fri, Oct 10, 2003 at 01:00:32PM -0600, ben franchuk wrote: > Jay West wrote: > > I am looking for full source code for a *VERY* tiny C compiler written in > > any common assembly language. I'm much more concerned with size of the > > compiler than functionality/features. Can anyone suggest one or know where > > the source might by laying around? I thought I had heard ages ago about some > > microcomputer C compilers being well under 32K. > > > > As to how this relates to classiccmp... well.. *blush* I'm actually thinking > > of porting C to the HP2100. The whole thing has to fit in 32K of ram, > > including drivers, etc. Not sure what OS it will be placed on, perhaps > > HP-IPL/OS. Might make a simple native OS for it or might even make it > > standalone, not sure yet. > > C requires a stack pointer and a index register.Offhand I don't think > your hardware supports that. Certain HP2xxx do have index registers (the ones with the EIG instructions IIRC), but guess how FORTRAN compilers handle indexed array accesses (this is pointer math). There is FORTRAN for HPs, so it is possible (there are microcode extensions for HP1000 to speed up multiple dimensional array acesses, but you don't really need them in all cases). There is C for the HP/1000 available from interex.org (HP1000 CSL) which has been released some time ago. This was written for RTE-IVB or RTE-6/VM, it might be portable to pre-MEF machines. C does not need a stack pointer although the original PDP implementaions took advantage of it. It is attractive to base one's parameter passing on a stack data structure, including recursion, but you can always replace this by different structures for housekeeping. > The Honeywell H316 had a high level langauge PL516 > that might be easyier to port. > http://www.series16.adrianwise.co.uk/ > The PDP-8 is said to have a pascal compiler, that may > be another idea. Pascal, in particular because of its procedure nesting, and thus a rather tricky way of accessing variables in higher-level scopes, is much more relying on a stack than C does. The PDP-8 and the HP2xxx are with this respect both dumb in a similar way. And if it works with a PDP-8.... Holger From dave at mitton.com Mon Oct 13 11:03:24 2003 From: dave at mitton.com (Dave Mitton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:29 2005 Subject: Seiko RC-1000 wrist terminal software req? Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.2.20031012195254.03acb690@mail.comcast.net> Does anyone have a copy of the host system software for the circa 1984 Seiko RC-1000 watch terminal? I thought I had a copy that ran on DOS as a character mode app, but I cannot find the original diskette. The original PC I used is long gone. Dave. From meltie at meltie.com Mon Oct 13 11:26:44 2003 From: meltie at meltie.com (Alex White) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:29 2005 Subject: Multi-CPU Qbus VAXen In-Reply-To: <200310101704.h9AH4ge32450@abort.crash.com> References: <200310101704.h9AH4ge32450@abort.crash.com> Message-ID: <200310131726.44521.meltie@meltie.com> On Friday 10 Oct 2003 6:04 pm, Steven M Jones wrote: > Alex White wrote: > > I've been planning a monster like this, 4 small backplanes mounted > > in a hacked-around wide cabinet, 4 processors running as a VAXcluster > > over Ethernet... Been done before? > > If you're running them as a LAVC (Local Area VAXCluster, used to be any > cluster using Ethernet instead of CI) then this was done all the time > and I'm sure still is. They probably haven't called them LAVC's for > years and years, though. > > If you're saying you're going to interconnect the backplanes per the > discussion here and in MicroNote #26, then if people did it it was a > not a very common thing. And as others have pointed out, the normal > OS candidates won't have support for it. That's not a reason to stop > the project, just be aware of the necessary effort. > > --S. I thought it too obvious a project for it not to have been done. No, just four totally seperate 4-slot Q22 backplanes sharing a common PSU (OK, i'm hardly going for 5x9 uptime and redundancy here!) in a largish deskside case and clustered over thinwire - was going to look for KA660s so I could share a DSSI disk too. Could multiple hosts use a SCSI bus? Unfortunately the amount of VAXen (and therefore available CPUs) over here in the UK is a LOT smaller than in the US! alex/melt From scott_kennedy at siemens.com Mon Oct 13 11:59:20 2003 From: scott_kennedy at siemens.com (Kennedy Scott) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:29 2005 Subject: HP 82120A Message-ID: Saw your post about the HP 41C and the 5 battery packs. Interested in selling 1? Best Regards, Scott Kennedy From tomj at wps.com Mon Oct 13 13:22:57 2003 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:29 2005 Subject: ASR33 Teletype interfacing In-Reply-To: <200310131508.h9DF8gH5075481@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <200310131508.h9DF8gH5075481@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <1066068883.12064.17.camel@linux.local> > Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 09:04:11 -0400 > From: Ian Primus > Subject: Re: ASR33 Teletype interfacing > >> I have been attempting to get my ASR33 teletype connected to something > >> and communicating, but so far I have not been successful. I have built > > Teletypes are inductive loads. Though they only want 20 mils, the > > voltage needs to be high to get the initial magnet pull-in (basic RL > > theory). ASR33 loops were generally run at 100V or so, but I run my > > Model 28 at 14V, with non-perfect error rate, and I don't use the > > keyboard. > > I take it that the voltage isn't that crucial, just the current? Yes, but higher voltage means the in-rush current will reach 20mA faster (the RL time constant doesn't change, just absolute values).(I kinda lied when I said it wasn't subtle; there are subtleties. But they're not of the pee-cee interface kind. The Old Guys who worked all this stuff up were as smart or smarter than us; it's best to read old source material for this kind of trivia.) > > The keyboard and printer are IN SERIES. If you hit keys while it's > > printing you foul it up. Normal. > > What about on a full duplex machine? Is it the same, or are they > separate? Yes, but most teletype equip was half-duplex (two wires). > > I've done one of these fairly recently, and if poked with a > > not-too-sharp stick, I'll scan the schematic and pu on my website. > > *poke* > > > > If it's not too much trouble, I'd like to see it. From what I have > heard, there are lots of ways to do this, and i would be very > interested to see how you did it. OK, I'll get to it this week and post URL here. Everyone's interface is better than everyone else's, mine included :-) Be skeptical. Simplest isn't always most reliable, it depends on what you're trying to do: punch 1000 feet of error-free tape a mile away? Or just make the tty dance for an afternoon of fun? I cobbled up a PIC-based board that does ITA2 (aks "baudot") to ASCII, motor control, etc for a Model 28 teletype. It fits a particular project of my own. The source for it is at http://wps.com/projects scroll down for "PIC BASED PROJECTS" or something. tomj From meltie at meltie.com Mon Oct 13 13:30:33 2003 From: meltie at meltie.com (Alex White) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:29 2005 Subject: Multi-CPU Qbus VAXen In-Reply-To: <003e01c391b3$04437890$5b01a8c0@athlon> References: <003e01c391b3$04437890$5b01a8c0@athlon> Message-ID: <200310131930.33888.meltie@meltie.com> On Monday 13 Oct 2003 6:54 pm, Antonio Carlini wrote: > > No, just four totally seperate 4-slot Q22 backplanes sharing > > a common PSU > > (OK, i'm hardly going for 5x9 uptime and redundancy here!) in > > a largish > > Wouldn't this just be essentially 4 BA23s in a rackmount type > of enclosure? If so, they would each have their own PSU. I > don't know about the various configs that DEC sold officially, > but the ones I put together by scrounging round the lab were > always stacks of BA23s and a distribution panel of some sort. Well, i'm looking at what's available to me *now* and that's an old collector friend of mine with quite a few PDP11 Q18/22 backplanes and R400X cabs (amongst other things!) who's thinning his collection down rather drastically... > > deskside case and clustered over thinwire - was going to look > > for KA660s > > so I could share a DSSI disk too. Could multiple hosts use a SCSI bus? > > AFAICR the KA660 will happily work in a BA23 but if you want DSSI > you need the proper cab kit, which needs a BA2xx or BA4xx case. > So now you are back to back-to-back mounted BA213 or BA430 in a rack. Whoops, I totally forgot about the magic DSSI backplane >_< thanks for reminding me! > > Unfortunately the amount of VAXen (and therefore available > > CPUs) over here in the UK is a LOT smaller than in the US! > > Nah. You just need to look harder, or more likely, for longer. They > crop up but you have to work at it. There's plenty of stuff on > reseller's shelves and it will all become available over the next > ten to twenty years or so as they close up shop or move on to > other things. The real problem will be what to do when that happens: > do you save both the VAX 8650 and the VAX 9000 and how can you > have them both running on the Internet at the same time. > > Of course, if you're not in this for the long haul ... :-) I haul these things around with me from University flat to University flat. The girlfriend is happy for my collection to grow - she passed me an ebay UK link to a 6200 a few months or so ago and said that she'd quite like to have one around *grins* alex/melt From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Mon Oct 13 18:00:04 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:29 2005 Subject: Vintage collection for sale In-Reply-To: <009201c38f52$9a57a030$8e21fea9@sergej> Message-ID: arse! (this is a UK term for frustration) I can get to Holland very easily indeed, but do I have a job to allow me to buy such toys? No. Hence, ARSE! Atari 5200? Mmmmm Sorceror? Mmmmm Atari TT030? Mmmmm SX64? Mmmmm Actually, that's it. I've surprised meself :) cheers -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctech-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Collection 4 Sale > Sent: 10 October 2003 18:19 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Vintage collection for sale > Importance: High > > > Please see > > http://www.fossilicon.com/collectionsale > > for details and pictures > > > thanks, > > Sergej From kbudd at solace.net Mon Oct 13 18:23:22 2003 From: kbudd at solace.net (K.C. Budd) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:29 2005 Subject: Roland LAPC-1 Card Message-ID: Hello. I just ran across a message where you were asking someone else if they still had any Roland LAPC-1 cards. I have one that has been on my shelf for years. Do you want it? As far as I know it works, but it hasn't been in a PC in over 8 years. I'll mail it to you if you'd like. If it works, you can give me whatever you think it's worth. If not, you can just have it. :-) The board has the following inscription on it: MODEL LAPC-I ROLAND ASSY 75420300 00 MADE IN JAPAN Let me know! -K.C. kbudd@solace.net From kenacms at ngatoro.terrigal.net.au Tue Oct 14 08:16:33 2003 From: kenacms at ngatoro.terrigal.net.au (Ken Kirkby (ACMS)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:29 2005 Subject: Manual for GTSC 304 In-Reply-To: <002601c38f53$8f24d880$0300a8c0@yourfn86qv5dxz> from "scott@californiasystem.com" at Oct 10, 3 10:25:53 am Message-ID: <200310141308.h9ED8FD23212@ngatoro.terrigal.net.au> > > Hi Joe, > > I would like to get the entire manual for GTSC 304 new/old version if > you still have them available. > > Thanks. > > Scott Yu > California Systems > 2650 Walnut Ave., Suite B > Tustin, CA 92780 > T: 714-832-5444 > F: 714-832-5445 > I can do a copy if he doesnt. Ken Kirkby PLC Peripherals Terrigal Australia > From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Wed Oct 15 01:22:45 2003 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:29 2005 Subject: Update: VAXen available. Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.2.20031014231507.027d6100@66.125.189.29> Ok, the folks at www.auctionbdi.com have put these out in their current auction (which ends Sunday, October 19th at midnight pacific time. The lot numbers are as follows: SJ-97 for the 3400s, MV2, and 4000/300. Plus a pair of skis? SJ-98 for the VAX in the H9644 cabinet with the SCSI drives (the door says MicroVAX 3600 I believe). SJ-99 is the pallet of mixed stuff I believe. (The pictures aren't up yet...) --Chuck --------------------- Previous Email ... A number of VAXen are available this week from www.auctionbdi.com. I gave them all of my "spares machines" which I cannot store and no one in the Bay Area wanted. The good news is that BDI will ship them to you pretty much anywhere in the country and the minimum bid is $25. The lot to look for has 3 MV3400's (in BA213 cases), one VAX 4000/300 (in a BA440 case) and one MicroVAX II in a pedestal BA23 case. I don't recall how complete they are, I do thing the 4000/300 is complete except for some DSSI plugs which I needed to bring my 3800 on line. Two of the 3400's have the front "door" (one says MicroVAX 3400, one says VAXServer 3400). If you've got a 3400 or 4000/300 there are plenty of parts to "enhance" your system. I believe the 4000/300 has 192MB of memory but can't swear to it) There is also a MicroVAX 3600 in a H9644 rack. This one I've never looked at in depth other than to note that it has a 4 SCSI drives and a tape but a gap where the SCSI controller had been. Given that it couldn't talk to the disks I pretty much ignored it. Finally there are some PC parts with a nice 17" NEC 5fg monitor (including the special NEC VGA cable). The monitor is nice but not an "Energy Saver" (it stays on as long as power is applied, no standby mode) Probably not of interest to this crowd but I thought I would mention it. --Chuck From billdeg at degnanco.com Wed Oct 15 09:21:56 2003 From: billdeg at degnanco.com (B.Degnan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:29 2005 Subject: Seeking TED chips, 8501R1 (for C plus/4 and C 16's) Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20031015101851.00a46090@mail.degnanco.net> Does anyone in this group know of a vendor/source that sells/ships the TED chips, 8501R1 - I have a few plus/4's with bad processors. Please email billdeg@degnanco.com. I know that they are hard to find, but I have hope that some one here may have a contact. I could buy another plus/4 from Ebay, but I would like to avoid this. Bill Wilmington, Delaware. From joseph.polinsky at bme.gatech.edu Wed Oct 15 11:34:35 2003 From: joseph.polinsky at bme.gatech.edu (Joseph Polinsky) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:29 2005 Subject: Kaypro Message-ID: <000001c3933a$3bbbde60$d8863d80@radrn4fdy1n1ni> Hello, I saw your posting for a Kaypro 10. Do you still have it?? If so please let me know and I will get back to you. Thank you J.P. From s0507649 at fhtw-berlin.de Wed Oct 15 15:57:53 2003 From: s0507649 at fhtw-berlin.de (s0507649@fhtw-berlin.de) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:29 2005 Subject: question about the TI-52 Message-ID: <3F8DD0F1.10683.15BC8E7@localhost> Hi, my name is Tobias and i own a TI-52 calculator. As it was given to me, i'd really like to program it(thoug it's as old as me). But this model is too old, and i can't get a manual for it. So i'd like to enquire whether you know how to get a manual for the TI-52. Thanks in advance! best regards Tobias Petschke From najay at najay.com Wed Oct 15 23:40:45 2003 From: najay at najay.com (george najarian) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:29 2005 Subject: hp 10391b inverse assembler toolkit availability Message-ID: <200310160450.h9G4ojH3085028@huey.classiccmp.org> last year you posted a link to the 10391b inverse assembler toolkit on HP (agilent)'s website. That link is not longer valid. Would it be possible to get a copy of the files from you, or a valid url/ftp link? I actually bought the disk with my hp1670a years ago but can't find it. Thanks for any help! George Najarian Najay Engineering, Inc. From timothy.p.radde at lmco.com Thu Oct 16 08:36:14 2003 From: timothy.p.radde at lmco.com (Radde, Timothy P) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:29 2005 Subject: PDP-11/34A's, 11/05, PDP-8/I backplane for sale in Northern VA Message-ID: <6485684CCD23CE4FA95B7FA02A2A5C0D139288@EMSS04M12.us.lmco.com> Hi, I saw your post on pdp stuff. How near Washington? I live near Philadelphia, PA. It would be about a 4 hour drive for me. Is the stuff spoken for yet? Tim R From classiccmp at crash.com Thu Oct 16 12:11:06 2003 From: classiccmp at crash.com (Steven M Jones) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:29 2005 Subject: Multi-CPU Qbus VAXen Message-ID: <200310161711.h9GHB6e07116@abort.crash.com> Alex White wrote: > > Well, i'm looking at what's available to me *now* and that's an old > collector friend of mine with quite a few PDP11 Q18/22 backplanes I picked up bare Q22 backplanes in case I find out I have Q18's in some of the cruft I've collected. Like a weird 3 backplane rack box, each backplane roughly the size of the one from a BA23. And there's a VT103 (incl. Qbus) that I'm not sure of... Hopefully your friend has these in some nice BA-series boxes of some kind. > [ DSSI clustering ] To my mind the hardest part is getting the cables for this. I've been keeping my eyes open here in the States, and only just a short time ago got two. The seller thought (understandably) they were a strange type of SCSI cable and listed them as such. Thank goodness for the pictures on eBay... ;^) > I haul these things around with me from University flat to > University flat. Ooof! I wouldn't want to move "real computers" every three to six months... > The girlfriend is happy for my collection to grow - she passed > me an ebay UK link to a 6200 a few months or so ago and said > that she'd quite like to have one around *grins* A woman of such sophistication and refined taste is clearly a keeper. Make concessions, write a permanent To-Do item for some flowers, or whatever else is necessary... --S. From jpl15 at panix.com Thu Oct 16 12:40:14 2003 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:29 2005 Subject: More info on posting delays Message-ID: Issit Me - or innit - dunno! But I note this, as I try to wrap my head around the intricaies of how bytes get from one place to another place.. ----------------cut n paste---------------------------- Received: from huey.classiccmp.org (huey.classiccmp.org [209.145.140.36]) by mail3.panix.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B220098214; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 13:00:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from huey.classiccmp.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by huey.classiccmp.org (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h9GGjaH5086939; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:45:38 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org) Received: from linux.local ([128.195.166.138]) by huey.classiccmp.org (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h9DIMuH3076162 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 13:22:56 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from tomj@wps.com) Received: by linux.local (Postfix, from userid 500) id A6B2C378DC; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 11:14:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Jennings To: cctalk@classiccmp.org In-Reply-To: <200310131508.h9DF8gH5075481@huey.classiccmp.org> ------------end cut n paste----------------- I see there is quite a delay between two of the entries - 3 days. As Arte Johnson used to say on Laugh-In: "Veeeeeeeery Eeeenteresting!" And here at work, the plague of Worms and Virii and other pests is rising exponentially - might need a firewall for the firewall... even this poor old Shell account is geeting waves of Spam - interesting to see the procession of 'topic cycles' - from Medicine in Canada to On-line Poker to Cable Descramblers to, umm... body part Enhancers. ;} And now for something rather more on-topic: Want to buy RL02 drive(s) with daisy-chaining cables and a terminator or two - will pay for shipping - contact off-list - I'm in Carson City, Nevada - 89706. (USA units only, of course.) Cheers John From cb at mythtech.net Thu Oct 16 13:22:54 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:29 2005 Subject: Windows package questions Message-ID: I've looked around and I can't find my answer, so I'm asking here as I'm hoping a collector will know. I have a box and manual here marked "Microsoft Windows & MS-DOS Operating System Plus Enhanced Tools". I'm trying to determine what version of windows it is. I'd look in the manual, or look at the disks, but the package is still shrink wrapped and I don't want to open it. There is no outer box with version info as this was a "Distribution Only With A New PC" version. The manual is all white, with black text. No logos, no nothing. The only other things on the package are the Cert of Auth card (number 603301052) that has a PN 0-1258 in the bottom corner... and a sticker marking that the package has 3.5 diskettes. I was guessing Win 3.1 and DOS 6.2, but I thought DOS 6.2 only came on 3.5 disks, and so the label would seem redundant. So then I wondered if is was an older version of DOS, and thus maybe an older version of Windows. Like I said, I've searched, but was unable to turn up anything (found one ebay hit that sounds like they are selling the manual, but it doesn't say in the listing what version its for, and there is no pic so I can't compare and be sure). I'm hoping there is someone on the list that might have what I have described and can tell me what version of Windows and DOS is inside. TIA -chris From vcf at siconic.com Thu Oct 16 06:08:54 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:29 2005 Subject: PDP-11/34A's, 11/05, PDP-8/I backplane for sale in Northern VA In-Reply-To: <6485684CCD23CE4FA95B7FA02A2A5C0D139288@EMSS04M12.us.lmco.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 16 Oct 2003, Radde, Timothy P wrote: > I saw your post on pdp stuff. How near Washington? I live near Philadelphia, PA. It would > be about a 4 hour drive for me. Is the stuff spoken for yet? I could ignore the first 2, the 3rd tested me, but I've broken down on the 4th. These do come in waves, don't they? I'll bet someone could base a pretty interesting graduate thesis on this phenomena and land a prestigious position in some research institute somewhere in the world. Any takers? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From jpl15 at panix.com Thu Oct 16 15:46:10 2003 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:29 2005 Subject: Old but off-topic: Yamaha CS-80 Synth Message-ID: Right before I go to eBay with this - I know there are a couple or three Musicians here - I have a 1977 Yamaha CS-80 8-voice polyphonic synth for sale. I thought to take a chance on Classiccmp - one never knows... If you know what this is, and you're interested, please contact me off-list for more details. I have the Service Manual for it, which is now made purely of Unobtanium. Hey - it *does* have a special-pupose computer chip in it: the Keyboard Scanner / Note Multiplexer is a very early CMOS mask-programmed "PLA" sort of thingy... so I'm not too far off-base here. Cheers John From rickb at bensene.com Thu Oct 16 15:47:07 2003 From: rickb at bensene.com (Rick Bensene) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:29 2005 Subject: question about the TI-52 References: <3F8DD0F1.10683.15BC8E7@localhost> Message-ID: <000801c39426$bbef8310$d766a8c0@wrickben02> Hello, I'm sorry, but this machine is too "new" for me to have any information on. I specialize in desktop and early portable electronic calculators only, from the early 1960's, through the early '70's. The SR-52 is a handheld machine, and it outside my area of interest and expertise. All I can suggest is to search the web for any TI calculator websites (there are some that I've heard of), or post a message on the "Vinatage Calculator Forum" at http://www.dotpoint.com/vintage, and see if someone there might be able to help you. Regards, Rick Bensene The Old Calculator Web Museum http://oldcalculatormuseum.com ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2003 1:57 PM Subject: question about the TI-52 > Hi, my name is Tobias and i own a TI-52 calculator. As it was given to me, i'd really like > to program it(thoug it's as old as me). > But this model is too old, and i can't get a manual for it. > > So i'd like to enquire whether you know how to get a manual for the TI-52. > > Thanks in advance! > > best regards > Tobias Petschke > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Oct 16 15:34:31 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:29 2005 Subject: TinyC, port to HP In-Reply-To: <20031013162523.A32188@ct-mail.citytraffic.de> from "Holger Veit" at Oct 13, 3 04:25:23 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 352 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20031016/fe61b4ea/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Oct 16 15:41:11 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:29 2005 Subject: air filters In-Reply-To: from "Vintage Computer Festival" at Oct 16, 3 01:00:33 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1237 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20031016/2f6d5da8/attachment.ksh From jwest at classiccmp.org Thu Oct 16 16:21:25 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:29 2005 Subject: Old but off-topic: Yamaha CS-80 Synth References: Message-ID: <01c801c3942b$74d497e0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> CS-80 is a Wonderful Machine... specially for knobtwiddlers. Wish I had some spare cash... Jay --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Thu Oct 16 16:20:42 2003 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:29 2005 Subject: TinyC, port to HP References: Message-ID: <3F8F0BAA.7000906@jetnet.ab.ca> Tony Duell wrote: >>>C requires a stack pointer and a index register.Offhand I don't think >>>your hardware supports that. >> >>Certain HP2xxx do have index registers (the ones with the EIG instructions >>IIRC), but guess how FORTRAN compilers handle indexed array accesses > > > Err, self-modifying code? That was the traditional way to do this sort of > thing. I think the PC is noted more more self-modifying code than the old machines. The only real self modifying code (on your typical early machine) is the fact the return address is placed in the first word of subroutine code. > -tony > From jwest at classiccmp.org Thu Oct 16 16:28:04 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:30 2005 Subject: TinyC, port to HP References: Message-ID: <01d301c3942c$629af460$033310ac@kwcorp.com> > > > C requires a stack pointer and a index register.Offhand I don't think > > > your hardware supports that. Actually.... I happen to have obtained years ago an HP firmware board which has user written microcode on it specifically for implementing stack operations. Comes with a 1/2 inch thick set of notes by the person at the university lab who wrote the code :) I had forgotten that I had a copy of the book "Hendrix: Small-C"... until I saw the responses to this thread. So I went running to my favorite bookshelf where I kept it next to Rheingolds "data structures"... and my small-c book is gone :( Must have loaned it over the years. Anyone happen to have a spare copy? I looked at a few used book places online and didn't see it :\ Jay West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From arcarlini at iee.org Thu Oct 16 16:43:12 2003 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:30 2005 Subject: air filters In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <006101c3942e$89327e20$5b01a8c0@athlon> > we end up having to special-order 2.5mm jack sockets (OK, > 3/32" submini phone jacks to you) and quincuncial DIN plugs.... I heard that used to mean both five pins in an X shape (with one in the centre) and five pins roughly equally spaced around the circumference of a circle. But I've never heard it with specific reference to a DIN plug - I've previously always heard them called five-pin-DIN. I'll remember to mention this when I'm next in Maplins ("What's a din then?") Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From dwight.elvey at amd.com Thu Oct 16 17:50:30 2003 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:30 2005 Subject: TinyC, port to HP Message-ID: <200310162250.PAA16314@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "ben franchuk" > >Tony Duell wrote: >>>>C requires a stack pointer and a index register.Offhand I don't think >>>>your hardware supports that. >>> >>>Certain HP2xxx do have index registers (the ones with the EIG instructions >>>IIRC), but guess how FORTRAN compilers handle indexed array accesses >> >> >> Err, self-modifying code? That was the traditional way to do this sort of >> thing. > >I think the PC is noted more more self-modifying code than the old >machines. The only real self modifying code (on your typical early >machine) is the fact the return address is placed in the first word >of subroutine code. > >> -tony >> Hi I don't call this self modifying. Where you have a port command like the 8080 and you overwrite the port address before executing, now that is self modifying. Something like over writing an add instruction with a subtract would qualify as self modifying. Placing the address at the beginning is no different than pushing the address onto a stack, other than that it isn't reentrant ( with out extra code and then not for interrupts ). The first address isn't code, it is a variable space. The executed code never changes. My Nicolet uses the entry address saving method. In any case, I never understood the stigma of using self modifying code. It does require careful documentation if it is expected to be maintained. There is no reason why it can't be as robust as any other code if done properly. I suspect it was used as a sales talk when someone was trying to pitch their version of code to be better than someone else's. Such things as overlays would qualify as more risky uses of self modifying code but that is done without mention. Dwight From shirsch at adelphia.net Thu Oct 16 17:55:25 2003 From: shirsch at adelphia.net (Steven N. Hirsch) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:30 2005 Subject: Xebec Apple II controller In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.22.2.20031011183532.04984040@mail.zipcon.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 11 Oct 2003, Geoff Reed wrote: > dug up an apple II that has a Xebec apple II controller init, is this a > SCSI controller? or is it a SASI host interface that's gonna need an > external SASI<->ST506 controller on it? That's a SASI interface and unlikely to work with any actual SCSI-1 device. As you guessed, they were intended to interface with early-80s vintage "bridge" controllers like the Adaptec ACB4xxx and 5xxx series. Xebec actually made a SASI hard-drive for the early Sider subsystems, BTW. Steve From fernande at internet1.net Thu Oct 16 18:17:51 2003 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:30 2005 Subject: Update: VAXen available. In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.22.2.20031014231507.027d6100@66.125.189.29> References: <6.0.0.22.2.20031014231507.027d6100@66.125.189.29> Message-ID: <3F8F271F.3040001@internet1.net> Chuck McManis wrote: > SJ-97 for the 3400s, MV2, and 4000/300. Plus a pair of skis? Looks like they used the lot number twice. Somebody may end up with a surprise! Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Oct 16 18:43:09 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:30 2005 Subject: air filters In-Reply-To: <006101c3942e$89327e20$5b01a8c0@athlon> from "Antonio Carlini" at Oct 16, 3 10:43:12 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1600 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20031017/d00c8d15/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Oct 16 18:47:07 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:30 2005 Subject: air filters In-Reply-To: <078401c39287$036692c0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> from "Jay West" at Oct 14, 3 02:11:47 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 904 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20031017/2d1ac07a/attachment.ksh From eric at brouhaha.com Thu Oct 16 19:14:16 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:30 2005 Subject: air filters In-Reply-To: <006101c3942e$89327e20$5b01a8c0@athlon> References: <006101c3942e$89327e20$5b01a8c0@athlon> Message-ID: <2983.4.20.168.106.1066349656.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> >> we end up having to special-order 2.5mm jack sockets (OK, >> 3/32" submini phone jacks to you) and quincuncial DIN plugs.... > > I heard that used to mean both five pins in an X shape (with > one in the centre) and five pins roughly equally spaced > around the circumference of a circle. But I've never heard > it with specific reference to a DIN plug - I've previously > always heard them called five-pin-DIN. I'll remember to > mention this when I'm next in Maplins ("What's a din then?") Note that for some pin counts, there are DIN connectors with the pins positioned differently. I'm not sure whether these are really part of the DIN standard. For instance, there are at least three different pin arrangements for 5-pin DIN connectors. One has all five pins spaced around a 180 degree arc. One has a 240 degree arc. And one has four pins evenly spaced around the full circle, with a fifth pin in the center. Similar variations exist in the 7-pin connectors. I think the 240-degree 5-pin plug can be mated with a 6-pin DIN socket, but I have not verified that. Some things sold as circular DIN connectors are compliant with the DIN standard, some with an IEC standard, and some with neither. A few minutes searching with Google did not reveal the designations of the actual DIN and IEC standards, though I don't want to buy them in any case. From eric at brouhaha.com Thu Oct 16 19:14:16 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:30 2005 Subject: air filters In-Reply-To: <006101c3942e$89327e20$5b01a8c0@athlon> References: <006101c3942e$89327e20$5b01a8c0@athlon> Message-ID: <2983.4.20.168.106.1066349656.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> >> we end up having to special-order 2.5mm jack sockets (OK, >> 3/32" submini phone jacks to you) and quincuncial DIN plugs.... > > I heard that used to mean both five pins in an X shape (with > one in the centre) and five pins roughly equally spaced > around the circumference of a circle. But I've never heard > it with specific reference to a DIN plug - I've previously > always heard them called five-pin-DIN. I'll remember to > mention this when I'm next in Maplins ("What's a din then?") Note that for some pin counts, there are DIN connectors with the pins positioned differently. I'm not sure whether these are really part of the DIN standard. For instance, there are at least three different pin arrangements for 5-pin DIN connectors. One has all five pins spaced around a 180 degree arc. One has a 240 degree arc. And one has four pins evenly spaced around the full circle, with a fifth pin in the center. Similar variations exist in the 7-pin connectors. I think the 240-degree 5-pin plug can be mated with a 6-pin DIN socket, but I have not verified that. Some things sold as circular DIN connectors are compliant with the DIN standard, some with an IEC standard, and some with neither. A few minutes searching with Google did not reveal the designations of the actual DIN and IEC standards, though I don't want to buy them in any case. From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu Oct 16 19:06:44 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:30 2005 Subject: More info on posting delays In-Reply-To: John Lawson "More info on posting delays" (Oct 16, 13:40) References: Message-ID: <10310170106.ZM2835@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Oct 16, 13:40, John Lawson wrote: > ----------------cut n paste---------------------------- > > Received: from huey.classiccmp.org (huey.classiccmp.org > [209.145.140.36]) > by mail3.panix.com (Postfix) with ESMTP > id B220098214; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 13:00:45 -0400 (EDT) > Received: from huey.classiccmp.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) > by huey.classiccmp.org (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id > h9GGjaH5086939; > Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:45:38 -0500 (CDT) > (envelope-from cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org) > Received: from linux.local ([128.195.166.138]) > by huey.classiccmp.org (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id > h9DIMuH3076162 > for ; > Mon, 13 Oct 2003 13:22:56 -0500 (CDT) > (envelope-from tomj@wps.com) > Received: by linux.local (Postfix, from userid 500) > id A6B2C378DC; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 11:14:43 -0700 (PDT) > From: Tom Jennings > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > In-Reply-To: <200310131508.h9DF8gH5075481@huey.classiccmp.org> > > > ------------end cut n paste----------------- > > I see there is quite a delay between two of the entries - 3 days. As > Arte Johnson used to say on Laugh-In: "Veeeeeeeery Eeeenteresting!" But schtupid :-) Those headers show that it took a few minutes to get tpo huey.classiccmp.org (acting as receiver) -- that might be just mismatch between the clocks -- and then 3 days to get to be forwarded (from the same machine!). I've noticed a few headers with delays since we last discussed this, but none quite as extreme! However, I can think of some possible reasons. In this case, I'd guess that for some reason (maybe the sender isn't subscribed, or sent from an address that differs in some way from the address he subscribed with) the message had to be moderated -- we rely on Jay's goodwill and free time to do that, and if he's busy, I imagine that he does the really obvious ones in batches where he doesn't really need to examine them closely, and some get held over for a closer look when time permits. He also has to sleep and eat sometimes! In some other cases I've noticed, where the delay is a few hours, the same reasoning might still apply, even to messages sent by a subscriber. If you send to the list, and your headers give a different username, hostname, or domainname than the one you used to subscribe, it will need to be moderated. Another possibility is that any kind of DNS lookup failure -- including a slow response -- could cause the sending process on huey to requeue the message. This happens a lot with people who use dynamic DNS services and try to run their own mailserver on an ADSL line. They forget that even though they can update the DNS within a few seconds (or usually several minutes) when their IP address changes, most of the rest of the world that's interested in them has already cached the old data and it doesn't expire for a while (I've know it take days). Yet another possibility right now, with all the viruses, and floods of mail saying "we didn't deliver your mail because it had a virus and we're too stupid to read the headers and see they're forged"[1] (not mentioning AOL or certain other ISPs) is that some ISPs are finding their mail servers swamped and hence slow. The ISPs that have suddenly put virus-checking in place are particularly badly off, because the scanning takes several times as many computrons as simple mail handling does. huey might try to deliver a message and not be able to at some particular instant, so it gets requeued. I've seen this happening on our mailservers at work (we can easily handle what we're getting and sending, but sometimes outgoing mail is queued because the recipient's servers can't). The above also happens a lot with ADSL users trying to run their own servers, because right now some of them are getting hit with lots of spam and virus-generated crap. However, that wouldn't explain why you saw such a delay (since panix is not a little linux box on the end of a DSL line). [1] Several viruses currently forge the "From" line, making it seem that email from some infected machine actually came from a different user/machine. Easy to spot if you bother to look, but lots of people -- even serious ISPs -- don't. There are lots of other possibilites. Most mail transport agents, like sendmail, have several built-in timeout functions, to cover various eventualities. Sendmail has loads of them, mostly short, but the net effect is that if some check or lookup takes too long, the associated email is queued. Most MTAs only run the queues periodically (common settings in sendmail are every 15 or 30 minutes) so you see that if some recipient has some systematic problem (like bad/slow DNS, or being hammered by DOS attacks or viruses) it doesn't take many delivery attempts for the delay to mount up *for that recipient*. One I came across the other day was that one sendmail was trying to do an ident lookup on incoming mail. The ident protocol is an old and not very useful way of trying to validate a sender's username; not many people run ident daemons so if a recipient's server tries to do this validation, it can take tens of seconds for it to decide it's not going to get anywhere with it. Meanwhile, the sender may give up. Another one I've seen, though not for a little while, is using an out-of-date blackhole list -- depending on how the recipient server checks blackhole lists, it might take a long time to decide whether to accept a message, and meanwhile -- you guessed it -- the sender has given up waiting and requeued the mail. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From frustum at pacbell.net Fri Oct 17 00:05:46 2003 From: frustum at pacbell.net (Jim Battle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:30 2005 Subject: TinyC, port to HP In-Reply-To: <200310162250.PAA16314@clulw009.amd.com> References: <200310162250.PAA16314@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <3F8F78AA.7040807@pacbell.net> Dwight K. Elvey wrote: ... > In any case, I never understood the stigma of using self > modifying code. It does require careful documentation if > it is expected to be maintained. There is no reason why > it can't be as robust as any other code if done properly. > I suspect it was used as a sales talk when someone was > trying to pitch their version of code to be better than > someone else's. Such things as overlays would qualify as > more risky uses of self modifying code but that is done > without mention. Obvious drawbacks -- doesn't work if you ROM the code indeterminate behavior on certain chips that have instruction caches. the data cache snoops and invalidates the write address, but the instruction cache doesn't snoop and so requires an explicit flush (eg, the i860). even if the icache snoops the write, it can have a performance impact depending how often the code is modified since it can result in a full instruction pipe flush. even without caches, there can be a race between the data being written and the instruction fetch path. some self modifying code that works reliably on a 386 may not work on a 486. in an interrupt driven environment, such code is unlikely to be reentrant/thread safe/interrupt safe. it is harder to maintain. but, I agree, sometimes a coder has to do what a coder has to do. From nico at farumdata.dk Fri Oct 17 00:25:26 2003 From: nico at farumdata.dk (Nico de Jong) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:30 2005 Subject: TinyC, port to HP References: <200310162250.PAA16314@clulw009.amd.com> <3F8F78AA.7040807@pacbell.net> Message-ID: <000801c3946f$12fc2120$2101a8c0@farumdata.dk> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Battle" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > In any case, I never understood the stigma of using self > > modifying code. It does require careful documentation if > > it is expected to be maintained. There is no reason why > > it can't be as robust as any other code if done properly. > > I suspect it was used as a sales talk when someone was > > trying to pitch their version of code to be better than > > someone else's. Such things as overlays would qualify as > > more risky uses of self modifying code but that is done > > without mention. I remember a case where I had to port a Cobol program for invoicing from a mini (Singer ?) to Siemens 2002. There was not much fuzz logically, as the compilers were quite compatible, seen from the outside. What took me some days to find out, was that the program sometimes executed routines it wasnt supposed to, e.g. housekeeping whilst in the middle of an invoicing routine. The reason was, that some ALTER TO PROCEED TO were used, well documented etc., so that was not the problem. The problem was, that when the system had to reload pages, it wouldnt reload the swapped page, but the original, so my GOTO was ruined.... Needless to say, that the ALTERS were eliminated. Nico From waltje at pdp11.nl Fri Oct 17 04:21:32 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:30 2005 Subject: Seiko RC-1000 wrist terminal software req? In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.2.20031012195254.03acb690@mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 13 Oct 2003, Dave Mitton wrote: > Does anyone have a copy of the host system software for the circa 1984 > Seiko RC-1000 watch terminal? > > I thought I had a copy that ran on DOS as a character mode app, but I > cannot find the original diskette. The original PC I used is long gone. I *used* to have one of those (actually, just threw out my broken watch a couple of weeks ago) but I do seem to remember I still have the box... that might still have the cable and the floppies. Will look for ya :) --f -- Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist Visit the VAXlab Project at http://www.pdp11.nl/VAXlab/ Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Sunnyvale, CA, USA From waltje at pdp11.nl Fri Oct 17 04:22:47 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:30 2005 Subject: Vintage collection for sale In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 14 Oct 2003, Witchy wrote: > arse! (this is a UK term for frustration) > > I can get to Holland very easily indeed, but do I have a job to allow me to > buy such toys? No. > > Hence, ARSE! Ade, relax. I'll go and grab it for ya. --f -- Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist Visit the VAXlab Project at http://www.pdp11.nl/VAXlab/ Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Sunnyvale, CA, USA From jwest at classiccmp.org Fri Oct 17 07:37:46 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:30 2005 Subject: upcoming classiccmp wierdness Message-ID: <004501c394ab$77af4700$033310ac@kwcorp.com> I finally have carved out a little time to work on the sendmail config for huey (the classiccmp list server). I know exactly what needs to be done and there are several ways to do it, I'm not sure which way is best. Hence, I will be experimenting a bit today and possibly over the week. During that time, expect some oddity from the list. I'll keep you posted on the progress. Trivia note - Why did I name the classiccmp list server machine huey? The first computer I ever used was an HP 2000 TSB system in highschool. It's name was Huey. I couldn't resist the nostalgia. We also had a PDP-11/03 with RT-11 & TSX-plus. It was named Dewey. So if classiccmp ever gets split to another machine, it will be called (you guessed it) Dewey. Three? Well, Louie of course :) Jay West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From RCini at congressfinancial.com Fri Oct 17 07:48:29 2003 From: RCini at congressfinancial.com (Cini, Richard) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:30 2005 Subject: upcoming classiccmp wierdness Message-ID: <69DBC74E5784D6119BEA0090271EB8E5FA3EB2@MAIL10> And of course there should be an "Uncle Donald" around there somewhere :-) -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Jay West Sent: Friday, October 17, 2003 8:38 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: upcoming classiccmp wierdness I finally have carved out a little time to work on the sendmail config for huey (the classiccmp list server). I know exactly what needs to be done and there are several ways to do it, I'm not sure which way is best. Hence, I will be experimenting a bit today and possibly over the week. During that time, expect some oddity from the list. I'll keep you posted on the progress. Trivia note - Why did I name the classiccmp list server machine huey? The first computer I ever used was an HP 2000 TSB system in highschool. It's name was Huey. I couldn't resist the nostalgia. We also had a PDP-11/03 with RT-11 & TSX-plus. It was named Dewey. So if classiccmp ever gets split to another machine, it will be called (you guessed it) Dewey. Three? Well, Louie of course :) Jay West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From kandres at epssecurity.com Fri Oct 17 07:56:27 2003 From: kandres at epssecurity.com (Kevin Andres) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:30 2005 Subject: ASR33 Late comments Message-ID: Message: 16 Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 09:04:11 -0400 From: Ian Primus Subject: Re: ASR33 Teletype interfacing To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Message-ID: <67FFB9E5-FBEB-11D7-86CD-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed I am late in an response to this ASR33 discussion but the comments here definitely hit some memory banks buried deep. In the early 70's, I recall that 120VDC was the source for 60ma current loop to teletype, and it seems to me that "full-duplex" had the send side sourced from the teletype and the receive side sourced from the connected transmission equipment. There was something special that was done to "echo" at the local printout any typed keys, It seems that it was jumpers at the transmission equipment between the incoming "xmit" current and the outgoing "Rcvd" current, again it must have put them in series. It also rings in my head that the interfaces changed when 20ma came out and they could not be intermixed. A machine would be either 60ma or 20ma and required an overhaul to change it. 20ma was a result of reduced physical part requirements for robustness and EMF splatter reduction. Test equipment of the time put out "RY's", and that was almost a perfect square wave at 120Vdc, 60ma as I remember. I have conveniently forgotten most of what we did to repair these units, but I do remember a tank where the units were given a bath in something??? If air couldn't get things cleared and freed up, it got a bath then a complete relube???!!!! The comments to "running open were correct. That is the sign that no current was available to the unit. The current kept it "held". On Thursday, October 9, 2003, at 04:52 PM, Tom Jennings wrote: >> I have been attempting to get my ASR33 teletype connected to something >> and communicating, but so far I have not been successful. I have built >> the interface here : >> http://www.daedalus.co.nz/~don/computing/20mahack.html > > > It wont work, sorry... > Somehow I'm not surprised. Something told me that it was too simple to work properly. > Teletypes are inductive loads. Though they only want 20 mils, the > voltage needs to be high to get the initial magnet pull-in (basic RL > theory). ASR33 loops were generally run at 100V or so, but I run my > Model 28 at 14V, with non-perfect error rate, and I don't use the > keyboard. I take it that the voltage isn't that crucial, just the current? > The keyboard and printer are IN SERIES. If you hit keys while it's > printing you foul it up. Normal. What about on a full duplex machine? Is it the same, or are they separate? > Because it's inductive, it makes a spike when yuo turn the voltage off. > You need to suppress this with a diode, a resistor and capacitor, for > example. > > They're not subtle interfaces, and weren't meant to be. > > If you just want to print, you can rig up a power transistor, two > resistors, a diode, and a high-voltage DC power supply to do the trick, > and drive it from the serial port. > > If you want to receieve also, you can use another transistor and > resistor to pick off the change in loop current that happens when you > press keys which open the loop, and drive the serial port. > > I've done one of these fairly recently, and if poked with a > not-too-sharp stick, I'll scan the schematic and pu on my website. *poke* If it's not too much trouble, I'd like to see it. From what I have heard, there are lots of ways to do this, and i would be very interested to see how you did it. Thanks! Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.528 / Virus Database: 324 - Release Date: 10/16/2003 From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Oct 17 07:59:48 2003 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (AHS Mail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:30 2005 Subject: Nice Apple /// References: <3F8DBD12.D7E5B86E@drizzle.com> Message-ID: <000c01c394ae$8c3d8c10$1e02a8c0@WNYC1145744> Not mine, Nice Apple /// setup, disk drive, diskettes, manual and more on Ebay: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2758567660&category=4610 From jwest at classiccmp.org Fri Oct 17 08:54:43 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:30 2005 Subject: testing Message-ID: <007301c394b6$381ba380$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Just testing... please ignore. Jay West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From evan947 at yahoo.com Fri Oct 17 09:41:11 2003 From: evan947 at yahoo.com (evan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:30 2005 Subject: Funny vintage gaming article Message-ID: <20031017144111.31831.qmail@web14007.mail.yahoo.com> http://www.egmmag.com/article2/0,4364,1338730,00.asp From jwest at classiccmp.org Fri Oct 17 09:44:40 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:30 2005 Subject: testing number 2 Message-ID: <008901c394bd$324ddfc0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> testing again - please ignore --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From dwight.elvey at amd.com Fri Oct 17 12:23:10 2003 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:30 2005 Subject: TinyC, port to HP Message-ID: <200310171723.KAA17031@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Jim Battle" > >Dwight K. Elvey wrote: >... >> In any case, I never understood the stigma of using self >> modifying code. It does require careful documentation if >> it is expected to be maintained. There is no reason why >> it can't be as robust as any other code if done properly. >> I suspect it was used as a sales talk when someone was >> trying to pitch their version of code to be better than >> someone else's. Such things as overlays would qualify as >> more risky uses of self modifying code but that is done >> without mention. > >Obvious drawbacks -- > >doesn't work if you ROM the code > >indeterminate behavior on certain chips that have instruction caches. >the data cache snoops and invalidates the write address, but the >instruction cache doesn't snoop and so requires an explicit flush (eg, >the i860). > >even if the icache snoops the write, it can have a performance impact >depending how often the code is modified since it can result in a full >instruction pipe flush. > >even without caches, there can be a race between the data being written >and the instruction fetch path. some self modifying code that works >reliably on a 386 may not work on a 486. > >in an interrupt driven environment, such code is unlikely to be >reentrant/thread safe/interrupt safe. > >it is harder to maintain. > >but, I agree, sometimes a coder has to do what a coder has to do. > > Hi I should have mentioned the issues with instruction caches and pipelines. After all, our K8 is heavy into this. I was thinking more in terms of small micros or even in the case where there is a well defined cache that can be used to advantage. Anytime one does something out of the ordinary, one needs to make it clear all of the restrictions and such of how it is to be used. One of the examples of how a known cache can be to advantage is like the adsp2100 works. It has a 6 instruction cache so that it can do things like over write the current instructions in memory for an overlay while running the loader code from the cache. It does need the interrupts disabled but this can be handy for something like a flash update. Dwight From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Fri Oct 17 12:55:43 2003 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:30 2005 Subject: TI-52 manual Message-ID: Actually the first calculator I bought in graduate school was a TI-52, I still have it and the manual. Please email me an address and I will email you a scan of the manual. My battery packs are shot but I have saved them. I also have the case. The 52 could do factorials and logs. It was really handy for computing probabilities using factorials for my statistics classes. When I first went to college they had a remedial class for students who didn't know how to use a slide rule. I already knew how since my grandfather gave me one in 6th grade. I used a slide rule all through college until 1975 when I bought a calculator. Mike m m c f a d d e n a t c m h . e d u > Hi, my name is Tobias and i own a TI-52 calculator. As it was given to me, i'd really like > to program it(thoug it's as old as me). > But this model is too old, and i can't get a manual for it. > > So i'd like to enquire whether you know how to get a manual for the TI-52. > > Thanks in advance! > > best regards > Tobias Petschke > From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Fri Oct 17 13:08:59 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:30 2005 Subject: upcoming classiccmp wierdness In-Reply-To: <004501c394ab$77af4700$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <3F904C5B.17240.569BDD1@localhost> > Trivia note - Why did I name the classiccmp list server machine huey? The > first computer I ever used was an HP 2000 TSB system in highschool. It's > name was Huey. I couldn't resist the nostalgia. We also had a PDP-11/03 with > RT-11 & TSX-plus. It was named Dewey. So if classiccmp ever gets split to > another machine, it will be called (you guessed it) Dewey. Three? Well, > Louie of course :) Well, and if there's a mirror to be set up, I sugest Tick, Trick and Track :) H. P.S.: Yes, most names got translated :) -- VCF Europa 5.0 am 01./02. Mai 2004 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Fri Oct 17 13:11:47 2003 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:30 2005 Subject: upcoming classiccmp wierdness In-Reply-To: <69DBC74E5784D6119BEA0090271EB8E5FA3EB2@MAIL10> References: <69DBC74E5784D6119BEA0090271EB8E5FA3EB2@MAIL10> Message-ID: In message <69DBC74E5784D6119BEA0090271EB8E5FA3EB2@MAIL10> "Cini, Richard" wrote: > And of course there should be an "Uncle Donald" around there somewhere :-) Well, seeing as we're on the subject of machine names, I've been using star names, constellations and Zodiac signs - Polaris, Arcturus, Vega, Rigel, Coriolis and Aquarius have all been used so far. The laptops are named after Star Trek movies and series - Nemesis and Voyager. As for the machines that sit there doing nothing 99% of the time? IJSH and IJST. Guess what IJST and IJSH mean :) I'd be interested to find out what network names/nicknames some other classiccmpers have given their machines. Later. -- Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, philpem@dsl.pipex.com | ViewFinder, Ethernet (Acorn AEH62), http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ | 8xCD, framegrabber, Teletext * <- Tribble # <- Tribble after Borg assimilation From jwest at classiccmp.org Fri Oct 17 13:19:15 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:30 2005 Subject: testing testing Message-ID: <00cb01c394db$2c179ec0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> another test - please ignore --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Fri Oct 17 13:19:09 2003 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:30 2005 Subject: upcoming classiccmp wierdness References: <69DBC74E5784D6119BEA0090271EB8E5FA3EB2@MAIL10> Message-ID: <3F90329D.2050001@jetnet.ab.ca> Philip Pemberton wrote: > I'd be interested to find out what network names/nicknames some other > classiccmpers have given their machines. You can't say that name in public. :) The truth be known, the new machines have no personality so I don't name them. I never had a working classic machine, allways bits and pieces. Ben. PS. ** Frankenstein ** comes to mind, but is not a name I want to use. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Oct 17 13:33:38 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:30 2005 Subject: air filters In-Reply-To: <2983.4.20.168.106.1066349656.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> from "Eric Smith" at Oct 16, 3 05:14:16 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2382 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20031017/32fe9717/attachment.ksh From jwest at classiccmp.org Fri Oct 17 14:24:19 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:30 2005 Subject: still testing Message-ID: <00d701c394e4$433f92c0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> please ignore Not sure sure the problem is sendmail. There is much wailing and gnashing of teeth going on here *sigh* --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From dundas at caltech.edu Fri Oct 17 14:49:28 2003 From: dundas at caltech.edu (John A. Dundas III) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:30 2005 Subject: Recommendations for archiving audio tapes Message-ID: I have a number of old DECUS U.S. Symposium audio tapes that I would like to archive before they completely disintegrate. I have a way to digitize these and store them in a variety of formats. I'm not sure what format is best for archive and distribution, though I assume something like WAV or AIFF for archive and MP3 for distribution. I have no prior experience at this and would appreciate any suggestions on the best approach. Also suggestions on who to contact to make these archives legally available on the web would be welcome. Is anyone else archiving these? As a teaser, here's what I have: 1987 Fall: N008 Understanding Ethernet N037 Cryptographic Security for Ethernet DA054 Optimizing VMS device Drivers for Realtime I/O V104 Tape 1 VAX Magic, War Stories, and Horror Tales V104 Tape 2 1988 Fall: PC031 Internal Enhancements to AppleTalk for VMS NE050 An Introduction to the Digital's Distributed Name Service (DNS) GR054 Renderman: A 3D Scene Description Interface for Computer Graphics System GR033F Computer Graphic and Visualization Thanks, John From geneb at deltasoft.com Fri Oct 17 15:16:31 2003 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:30 2005 Subject: still testing In-Reply-To: <00d701c394e4$433f92c0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: Jay, try Postfix. You'll be a lot happier, really. :) g. On Fri, 17 Oct 2003, Jay West wrote: > please ignore > > Not sure sure the problem is sendmail. There is much wailing and gnashing of > teeth going on here *sigh* > > --- > [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > > From jwest at classiccmp.org Fri Oct 17 15:12:38 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:30 2005 Subject: test please ignore Message-ID: <00f201c394eb$035da500$033310ac@kwcorp.com> testing --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From allain at panix.com Fri Oct 17 16:20:44 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:30 2005 Subject: WICAT up on the auction block. References: <20031017144111.31831.qmail@web14007.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000901c394f4$8723b060$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Well, that's it folks, I've put my WICAT mini up on eBay. No reserve, low starting bid. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2760096059 This system is MC68000 architecture, with Pertec and SMD controllers. If anything it's decent just for it's 5V 100A PSU. ...But I'd rather get people interested in it for it's mind and not just it's body . John A. boy we do get attached to things, don't we. From bshannon at tiac.net Fri Oct 17 16:24:42 2003 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:30 2005 Subject: TinyC, port to HP References: Message-ID: <3F905E1A.803@tiac.net> HP 21MX series CPU's do have index registers, but they are best left unused! Standard HP instructions can perform the same operations FASTER than the absurdly slow X and Y index register functions. Tony Duell wrote: >>>C requires a stack pointer and a index register.Offhand I don't think >>>your hardware supports that. >>> >>Certain HP2xxx do have index registers (the ones with the EIG instructions >>IIRC), but guess how FORTRAN compilers handle indexed array accesses >> > >Err, self-modifying code? That was the traditional way to do this sort of >thing. > >-tony > > From bshannon at tiac.net Fri Oct 17 16:28:19 2003 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:30 2005 Subject: TinyC, port to HP References: <3F8F0BAA.7000906@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <3F905EF3.10509@tiac.net> Oh no, many HP boot loaders use self modifying code. Take a look at the source for the H 264X terminal boot rom, it alters an instruction by using it as the target for an increment-and-skip-on-zero instuction. HP took great pains to squeeze some boot loaders into only 64 words. As a result you have to reload these loaders from ROM each time they run. ben franchuk wrote: > Tony Duell wrote: > >>>> C requires a stack pointer and a index register.Offhand I don't >>>> think your hardware supports that. >>> >>> >>> Certain HP2xxx do have index registers (the ones with the EIG >>> instructions >>> IIRC), but guess how FORTRAN compilers handle indexed array accesses >> >> >> >> Err, self-modifying code? That was the traditional way to do this >> sort of thing. > > > I think the PC is noted more more self-modifying code than the old > machines. The only real self modifying code (on your typical early > machine) is the fact the return address is placed in the first word > of subroutine code. > >> -tony >> > > > > > From jwest at classiccmp.org Fri Oct 17 16:38:20 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:30 2005 Subject: list status Message-ID: <010201c394f6$fbe28d20$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Well, I had a very bad time with mailman and sendmail today. I was assuming the problem was with sendmail. After screwing around with it all day, I'm not so sure the problem is sendmail. I found the following items: 1) A LOT of people on the list have very slow mailservers. This is bad in conjuction with the way mailman queues messages. 2) All the junk email coming into the list gets a "your post awaits moderator approval" return email, and most of those domains don't exist, or have servers that are extremely bogged down, also causing a problem with the way mailman queues messages. 3) Mailman queues messages in very large groups. A single post to the list generates 4 emails, each one with around 150 recipients. When sendmail processes one of these single messages, as it sends to one of the recipients and encounters a VERY slow mail server, everyone else on the recipient list just sits and waits. The delays are... to me... well... horrid. 4) When I set mailman to send one email per recipient, sendmail still only had one runner processing the queue. Of course, the same problem exists them as #3. Everything I tried seemed to make it the same or worse. I tried starting a separate localhost only daemon of sendmail which doesn't do DNS lookups, setting the outbound sendmail daemon for persistant queueing, put in a caching only nameserver on the mailserver, set mailman to send one recipient per message, etc. before running out of time to work on this. I suspect that this all started with the upgraded mailman, this version apparently has it's own message queueing and is very different from previous versions. I've kinda hit the point of not being able to see the forest for the trees, so if someone is up on mailman and sendmail I'd appreciate some insight. If you have some thoughts (besides "dude, switch to using XXXXX for your MTA"), please email me directly so I get the email quickly. In response to the people who have suggested replacing sendmail... I would like to call attention to what the website for mailman says. Bear in mind, the mailman camp is somewhat anti-sendmail, instead favoring qmail, exim, and postfix. However, note what THEY say about sendmail... "Moreover, with appropriate work, sendmail can be configured to be the fastest and highest-volume general-purpose MTA on the planet." This is in the section where they compare sendmail to exim, qmail, and postfix. So I'm not the only one who believes in sendmail. I put things back the way they originally were. I'll ponder it over the weekend. Regards, Jay West jwest@classiccmp.org --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From dwight.elvey at amd.com Fri Oct 17 17:11:05 2003 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:30 2005 Subject: TinyC, port to HP Message-ID: <200310172211.PAA17183@clulw009.amd.com> Hi Bob The boot loader for my Nicolet is similar in that it over writes itself. It fits into about 15 words so it is quite easy to toggle in. They even took advantage of the 'don't care' fields in some instructions to take advantage of minimizing switch changes. Even the memory location is chosen because it is has bits that fit well in adjacent instructions. It is quite remarkable that they can squeeze so much into so few instructions. I have written a boot loader that I use to transfer data to and from an H89 ( Heathkit ) computer that takes about 52 bytes. Most is com port initializing. It was nice when the hardware was jumper configured. The loader would be much smaller. The loader is such that I can send it by email and someone can bring a H89 up from scratch. They just need a couple of blank 10 sectored disks and my code. Later Dwight >From: "Bob Shannon" > >Oh no, many HP boot loaders use self modifying code. > >Take a look at the source for the H 264X terminal boot rom, it alters an >instruction by >using it as the target for an increment-and-skip-on-zero instuction. HP >took great pains >to squeeze some boot loaders into only 64 words. As a result you have >to reload these >loaders from ROM each time they run. > >ben franchuk wrote: > >> Tony Duell wrote: >> >>>>> C requires a stack pointer and a index register.Offhand I don't >>>>> think your hardware supports that. >>>> >>>> >>>> Certain HP2xxx do have index registers (the ones with the EIG >>>> instructions >>>> IIRC), but guess how FORTRAN compilers handle indexed array accesses >>> >>> >>> >>> Err, self-modifying code? That was the traditional way to do this >>> sort of thing. >> >> >> I think the PC is noted more more self-modifying code than the old >> machines. The only real self modifying code (on your typical early >> machine) is the fact the return address is placed in the first word >> of subroutine code. >> >>> -tony >>> >> >> >> >> >> > > > From eric at brouhaha.com Fri Oct 17 18:32:59 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:30 2005 Subject: list status In-Reply-To: <010201c394f6$fbe28d20$033310ac@kwcorp.com> References: <010201c394f6$fbe28d20$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <1587.4.20.168.165.1066433579.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Jay wrote: > However, note what THEY say about sendmail... "Moreover, with > appropriate work, sendmail can be configured to be the fastest and > highest-volume general-purpose MTA on the planet." This is in the section > where they compare sendmail to exim, qmail, and postfix. So I'm not the > only one who believes in sendmail. I interpret "can be" to mean "theoretically, maybe by Eric Allman". In my experience, even mortals who have spent years hacking Sendmail configurations and who are experts at it by any normal person's criteria still tend to have a lot of trouble with it. I run qmail on my main mailserver. I think it's mostly OK, but the license sucks and the code is *very* sparse on comments. It also does not support delivery status notifications per RFC 3461/3464, or even the older RFC 1891/1894. And it does not seem to be under active development. I run Postfix on my backup mailserver. It was incredibly easy to set up and has been completely maintenance-free. It is fully RFC 1891/1894 compliant. I will probably switch to Postfix for my main mailserver soon, but I have become dependent on a few details of the way qmail handles local delivery, so it will be a bit of work. Normally a conversion from Sendmail to Postfix is really easy. However, since you're the one that runs the list (thanks!!!), I think you should run whatever works best for you, even if that is Sendmail. Eric From tothwolf at concentric.net Fri Oct 17 21:30:11 2003 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:30 2005 Subject: air filters In-Reply-To: <2983.4.20.168.106.1066349656.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> References: <006101c3942e$89327e20$5b01a8c0@athlon> <2983.4.20.168.106.1066349656.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 16 Oct 2003, Eric Smith wrote: > Note that for some pin counts, there are DIN connectors with the pins > positioned differently. I'm not sure whether these are really part of > the DIN standard. For instance, there are at least three different pin > arrangements for 5-pin DIN connectors. One has all five pins spaced > around a 180 degree arc. One has a 240 degree arc. And one has four > pins evenly spaced around the full circle, with a fifth pin in the > center. Similar variations exist in the 7-pin connectors. > > I think the 240-degree 5-pin plug can be mated with a 6-pin DIN socket, > but I have not verified that. It can. I have some equipment that uses that exact combination of connectors. -Toth From blstuart at bellsouth.net Fri Oct 17 21:03:46 2003 From: blstuart at bellsouth.net (Brian L. Stuart) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:30 2005 Subject: Naming schemes (was upcoming classiccmp wierdness) Message-ID: <3F909F81.B0E376E8@bellsouth.net> > I'd be interested to find out what network names/nicknames some other > classiccmpers have given their machines. I've been using intellgent computers from sci fi for a while. The laptop I'm using now is called nomad (from Star Trek) and my gateway is called orac (from Blake's 7). I've got some Suns that I hope to have back on-line soon with names like colossus, guardian, hal, m5 and zen. Of course, my daughter wanted me to name her machine fluffy (from Harry Potter) and my wife's is taliesin (from Arthurian legend). BLS From spectre at floodgap.com Fri Oct 17 22:32:54 2003 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:30 2005 Subject: Naming schemes (was upcoming classiccmp wierdness) In-Reply-To: <3F909F81.B0E376E8@bellsouth.net> from "Brian L. Stuart" at "Oct 17, 3 09:03:46 pm" Message-ID: <200310180332.UAA14130@floodgap.com> > I'd be interested to find out what network names/nicknames some other > classiccmpers have given their machines. Servers are all named after Scandinavian cities (stockholm, oslo [soon], helsinki, reykjavik and thule). Clients are all named after significant people in their development, such as my desktop Mac = bryan (Bryan Stearns), C64 = jack (Tramiel), C128 = bil (Herd), games 486 = Alex (St. John, the former Microsoft DirectX evangelist), PM 7100 = carl (Sagan, after its code name), ... Laptops and portables are all named after dogs, such as rover (SX-64), fido (HP95), spot (PC-4), lassie (PC-2), ... Game systems all have girls' names starting with S: Sylvia (Sylvania Intellivision), Stella (VCS 2600), Sadie (Dreamcast: Dreamcast -> DC -> CD -> "Sadie"). Clusters have anime family names. The cluster I'm thinking of putting together to do distributed Veronica-2 searches will be akane, kasumi and nabiki. There, that's pretty geeky. -- ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@floodgap.com -- "The Internet is, once again, your friend" (I wrote this *before* PacBell!) From netsurfer_x1 at fastmailbox.net Fri Oct 17 22:29:40 2003 From: netsurfer_x1 at fastmailbox.net (David Vohs) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:30 2005 Subject: Naming schemes (was upcoming classiccmp wierdness) In-Reply-To: <3F909F81.B0E376E8@bellsouth.net> References: <3F909F81.B0E376E8@bellsouth.net> Message-ID: <20031018032940.AB10F3EA51@www.fastmail.fm> Here are the names for my current systems: Commodore 64C: "Triumph" Original Apple Macintosh: "Leela" Texas Instruments TI-99/4A: "Delorean" (Think about it.) Apple Macintosh Portable: "Monolith" Tandy Color Computer III: "Spectrum" Sharp PC-7000: "Boombox" (That's what I thought it was, until I opened it up!) Tandy 200 Laptop: "Butterfly" Epson QX-10: "Shapeshifter" (This gem has a Titan graphics & MS-DOS board in it, hence the name.) Otrona Attache: "Scout" (Self-explanitory) --Former systems-- Corona Data Systems PPC-XT: "Yugo" Grid GridCase3: "Challenger" (Named after the space shuttle. Oddly enough, this machine started giving off magic smoke plumes, so I tossed it.) --Prospective System-- HP-85: "Mercury" On Fri, 17 Oct 2003 21:03:46 -0500, "Brian L. Stuart" said: > > I'd be interested to find out what network names/nicknames some other > > classiccmpers have given their machines. > > I've been using intellgent computers from sci fi for a while. The > laptop I'm using now is called nomad (from Star Trek) and my gateway > is called orac (from Blake's 7). I've got some Suns that I hope to > have back on-line soon with names like colossus, guardian, hal, > m5 and zen. Of course, my daughter wanted me to name her machine > fluffy (from Harry Potter) and my wife's is taliesin (from Arthurian > legend). > > BLS -- David Vohs netsurfer_x1@fastmailbox.net -- http://www.fastmail.fm - The way an email service should be From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Oct 17 22:35:47 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:30 2005 Subject: Naming schemes (was upcoming classiccmp wierdness) In-Reply-To: <3F909F81.B0E376E8@bellsouth.net> from "Brian L. Stuart" at Oct 17, 2003 09:03:46 PM Message-ID: <200310180335.h9I3ZmeV015241@onyx.spiritone.com> > > I'd be interested to find out what network names/nicknames some other > > classiccmpers have given their machines. For my OpenVMS systems they're typically taken from the "Doc Savage" books. I've got systems such as; DOC, SAVAGE, RENNY, LNGTOM, HAM, and MONK. For my main non-VMS systems I've been using various mythological gods such as odin, zeus, and apollo. Some systems that I rarely use get what they are for the system name, such as 'next' or 'dualxeon'. Of course my SGI O2/270 is a bit obvious, I had to call him Erwin :^) just like my Amiga 3000 is 'amy' (those two are a bit to predictable). Zane From vcf at siconic.com Fri Oct 17 15:38:51 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:30 2005 Subject: Naming schemes (was upcoming classiccmp wierdness) In-Reply-To: <20031018032940.AB10F3EA51@www.fastmail.fm> Message-ID: My naming scheme is easy: Main desktop PC: "Piece of shit running Windows XP" Laptop: "Piece of shit running Windows 2000" Backup PC: "Piece of shit running Windows 98" -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Fri Oct 17 15:40:27 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:30 2005 Subject: DEC AlphaServer 2100 Message-ID: I picked up a DEC AlphaServer 2100 today. Is anyone interested in it? It has what I believe to be a RAID array. I haven't looked inside yet. Anyone interested in making an offer? I don't think I want to keep it. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From rhudson at cnonline.net Sat Oct 18 00:25:05 2003 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:30 2005 Subject: Naming schemes (was upcoming classiccmp wierdness) In-Reply-To: <20031018032940.AB10F3EA51@www.fastmail.fm> Message-ID: <6E29EAE5-012B-11D8-8339-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> I once named a stack of Syquest carts with 3 letter animal names. iBook = this iBook I use... uhgh Sputnik = The toshiba Satellite Box = a lunchbox style machine BoxJr = the "book" sized computer I have. ----"life" based names glider = a small dell laptop beehive = the server quad = another small laptop From meltie at meltie.com Sat Oct 18 04:52:02 2003 From: meltie at meltie.com (Alex White) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:31 2005 Subject: Naming schemes (was upcoming classiccmp wierdness) In-Reply-To: <200310180335.h9I3ZmeV015241@onyx.spiritone.com> References: <200310180335.h9I3ZmeV015241@onyx.spiritone.com> Message-ID: <200310181052.02972.meltie@meltie.com> > > I'd be interested to find out what network names/nicknames some > > other classiccmpers have given their machines. I name my boxxen after vodkas - Stolichnaya, Ursus, Charodei, Rain, Chopin... Ones that don't get much use generally get put down as "3100" or similar though. Network devices get their own explanatory names - gateway, ds300, router etc alex/melt From classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk Sat Oct 18 05:39:19 2003 From: classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk (Rob O'Donnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:31 2005 Subject: Naming schemes (was upcoming classiccmp wierdness) In-Reply-To: <200310181052.02972.meltie@meltie.com> References: <200310180335.h9I3ZmeV015241@onyx.spiritone.com> <200310180335.h9I3ZmeV015241@onyx.spiritone.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20031018113301.03ef7b88@pop.freeserve.net> > > > > I'd be interested to find out what network names/nicknames some > > > other classiccmpers have given their machines. I originally started out naming machines after colours - Red, Orange, Yellow, etc., until I ran out of primary colours. Now, most of the machines here are named after characters out of the Terry Pratchet Discworld books. The main fileserver is called "luggage", for obvious reasons if anybody has read the books.. with getting on for a terrabyte of storage, it must be approaching The Luggage's storage capacity... Some current machines are Angua, Twyla, Detrius, Albert, Susan, Binky... Embedded devices (routers, firewall, etc.) have functional names I'm afraid. From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sat Oct 18 08:40:01 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:31 2005 Subject: Naming schemes (was upcoming classiccmp wierdness) In-Reply-To: "Brian L. Stuart" "Naming schemes (was upcoming classiccmp wierdness)" (Oct 17, 21:03) References: <3F909F81.B0E376E8@bellsouth.net> Message-ID: <10310181440.ZM4339@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> > > I'd be interested to find out what network names/nicknames some other > > classiccmpers have given their machines. Mine are an assortment of groups. The SGIs, which are the largest group that are networked, are mindy (my original Indy), mork (another Indy), mearth (another!), orson (Origin 2000), volgar and exidor (O2s), but the Indigos mostly still have the names they were given by previous owners (dopey, ziggi, mrtoad, ...). My laptop is called dancer because it moves about; the windows PC is called floorbox because it's just a box that sits on the floor. The NeXT slab is predicably called monolith (blame the previous owner). I have a few Acorn machines named after districts around Newcastle (which is where a couple of them came from), and a few other machines (PDP-11s, microVAXen, a couple of Suns, a Mac, etc) named by their previous owners. The network printers are star (a Star Laserprinter8), twinkle (big HP colour deskjet), and coruscor (made up word, an HP LJ5M PostScript printer). Most of the rest are functional names (the GatorBox is gator, the LANmodem is lanmodem, and the ATM switches and bridges are named after their colours: orange (ATM-Ethernet), red (ATM-FDDI), purple (route server), magenta (ATM switch)). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From meltie at meltie.com Sat Oct 18 08:54:53 2003 From: meltie at meltie.com (Alex White) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:31 2005 Subject: Naming schemes (was upcoming classiccmp wierdness) In-Reply-To: <10310181440.ZM4339@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <3F909F81.B0E376E8@bellsouth.net> <10310181440.ZM4339@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <200310181454.53214.meltie@meltie.com> On Saturday 18 Oct 2003 2:40 pm, Pete Turnbull wrote: > > > I'd be interested to find out what network names/nicknames some > > other > > > > classiccmpers have given their machines. > > Mine are an assortment of groups. > > The SGIs, which are the largest group that are networked, are mindy (my > original Indy), mork (another Indy), mearth (another!), orson (Origin > 2000), volgar and exidor (O2s), but the Indigos mostly still have the > names they were given by previous owners (dopey, ziggi, mrtoad, ...). Definately, it's bad luck to rename a machine... alex/melt From eric at brouhaha.com Sat Oct 18 10:00:27 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:31 2005 Subject: Naming schemes (was upcoming classiccmp wierdness) In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20031018113301.03ef7b88@pop.freeserve.net> References: <200310180335.h9I3ZmeV015241@onyx.spiritone.com><200310180335.h9I3ZmeV015241@onyx.spiritone.com> <5.1.1.6.0.20031018113301.03ef7b88@pop.freeserve.net> Message-ID: <33787.64.169.63.74.1066489227.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > I originally started out naming machines after colours - Red, Orange, > Yellow, etc., And Octarine? From zmerch at 30below.com Sat Oct 18 10:18:24 2003 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:31 2005 Subject: Naming schemes (was upcoming classiccmp wierdness) In-Reply-To: References: <20031018032940.AB10F3EA51@www.fastmail.fm> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20031018095922.01c6d980@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Vintage Computer Festival may have mentioned these words: >My naming scheme is easy: > >Main desktop PC: "Piece of shit running Windows XP" >Laptop: "Piece of shit running Windows 2000" >Backup PC: "Piece of shit running Windows 98" I concur... ;-) The machine names I used to use were generally pretty bland; but start with a 'z': zmerch = main work machine zhome = main home machine Secondary name for my home machine: zgoon = dual Athlon MP 2600+'s, dual 3COM NIC, dual SCSI onboard, special 460W PS, 2.5G RAM, 3 HD's, CD-R, DVD-R, firewire, and prolly soon have SATA ;-) zmaggie = wife's machine zkids = kid's machine zfudge = Fujitsu laptop, hate the spelling, so... zms = If I'd ever gotten my DECstation 3100/m38 on the network with TCP/IP, that would have been it... zqms = QMS magicolor2 color laser printer zivo = my TiVo ... however ... It's getting to the point that it's easier just to remember the IP addresses (especially when I tape a label with it to the machine...) so I don't name them anymore. Oh, and I only have one 'full-time' POS (kids machine for kids games) - I usually keep a small Win2K partition for work on most of mine, but they usually spend most of their time in Linux... Wife's machine has *only* Linux, so I'm working on eliminating what I can... ;-) Laterz, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers zmerch@30below.com Hi! I am a .signature virus. Copy me into your .signature to join in! From jcwren at jcwren.com Sat Oct 18 10:41:08 2003 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:31 2005 Subject: Naming schemes (was upcoming classiccmp wierdness) In-Reply-To: <33787.64.169.63.74.1066489227.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> References: <200310180335.h9I3ZmeV015241@onyx.spiritone.com> <5.1.1.6.0.20031018113301.03ef7b88@pop.freeserve.net> <33787.64.169.63.74.1066489227.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <200310181141.08870.jcwren@jcwren.com> Mine are named after sunken subs and ships. Thresher, Titanic, Kursk, Lusitania, Scorpion. Of course, they have aliases that I can actually remember, too, like 'linux', 'gentoo', 'win32', 'printer', 'imac', 'dell'.... A friend of mine names his after types of high-speed winds. --John From jrice54 at charter.net Sat Oct 18 12:17:04 2003 From: jrice54 at charter.net (James Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:31 2005 Subject: Naming schemes (was upcoming classiccmp wierdness) In-Reply-To: <200310181141.08870.jcwren@jcwren.com> References: <200310180335.h9I3ZmeV015241@onyx.spiritone.com> <5.1.1.6.0.20031018113301.03ef7b88@pop.freeserve.net> <33787.64.169.63.74.1066489227.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <200310181141.08870.jcwren@jcwren.com> Message-ID: <3F917590.4090609@charter.net> My NeXT's are named by the model: Nextcube, Nextstation, etc; the Sun's are named for stars: Tau-ceti, Alpha-centuri, Mizar, etc; the Indigos have German first names: Hanz, Arnold, Franz, Werner (original owner names); The later Sgi's are named after where they originated: Lockheed, Boeing, Nortel, Disney; the Mac's are named for moons: Luna, Charon, Phobos, Triton, Io, Europa, Titan, etc; the BeBox is named BeBugs (my 4yo daughter was named it, I guess she didn't hear "box" when she asked me what it was); the others are named by model number or maker (C128D, TandySX, TandyHD, IBM-PC). J.C. Wren wrote: > Mine are named after sunken subs and ships. Thresher, Titanic, Kursk, >Lusitania, Scorpion. Of course, they have aliases that I can actually >remember, too, like 'linux', 'gentoo', 'win32', 'printer', 'imac', 'dell'.... > > A friend of mine names his after types of high-speed winds. > > --John > > > > -- http://webpages.charter.net/jrice54/classiccomp2.html From wrljet at yahoo.com Sat Oct 18 12:18:13 2003 From: wrljet at yahoo.com (Bill Lewis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:31 2005 Subject: PDP-11/34A's, 11/05, PDP-8/I backplane for sale in Northern VA References: <200310181701.h9IH08gI005890@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <013b01c3959b$d05c3840$0300a8c0@WRL> Thanks for all the replies to my post. All the PDP-11 stuff has been paid for, picked up, and has gone to a good home. The PDP-8/I backplane is most likely spoken for. Bill From classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk Sat Oct 18 12:14:46 2003 From: classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk (Rob O'Donnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:31 2005 Subject: Naming schemes (was upcoming classiccmp wierdness) In-Reply-To: <33787.64.169.63.74.1066489227.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com > References: <5.1.1.6.0.20031018113301.03ef7b88@pop.freeserve.net> <200310180335.h9I3ZmeV015241@onyx.spiritone.com> <200310180335.h9I3ZmeV015241@onyx.spiritone.com> <5.1.1.6.0.20031018113301.03ef7b88@pop.freeserve.net> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20031018181414.03e62ec0@pop.freeserve.net> At 08:00 18/10/2003 -0700, you wrote: > > I originally started out naming machines after colours - Red, Orange, > > Yellow, etc., > >And Octarine? Indeed ... which is how I migrated onto Pratchett :-) From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Sat Oct 18 20:47:50 2003 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:31 2005 Subject: Naming schemes (was upcoming classiccmp wierdness) In-Reply-To: <10310181440.ZM4339@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com>; from pete@dunnington.u-net.com on Sat, Oct 18, 2003 at 06:40:01 %z References: <3F909F81.B0E376E8@bellsouth.net> <10310181440.ZM4339@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <20031019014750.GE1396@oblina.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 2003.10.18 06:40 Pete Turnbull wrote: > Mine are an assortment of groups. My "primary" names are James, MissSophie, SirTobie, MrWinterbottom and AdmVonSchneider. If you don't know these names, well, I can't explain the origin. You have to see the film. ;-) The next group is ickis, oblina, krumm, Zimbo, TheSnorch, Simon, TheGromble, ... from a carton. Then there are some various unsorted names: tester (netboot client of the day), zerberus (router), octopus (8 port RS232 terminal server), Apfeltasche (old Apple laptop), ... At the Unix-AG we have names from "Biene Maja", "The Hitchhiker Guide to the Galaxy" and "Bonanza". -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Sat Oct 18 13:03:22 2003 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:31 2005 Subject: OT, but REALLY funny -- Killer Helium Blimps! Message-ID: <200310181103220980.140E15CE@192.168.42.129> I know this is off-topic, but we all could use a good laugh. NOTE: Remove all furry, feathered, or scaly critters from your lap, shoulders, or wherever, and put down all spillable and snortable substances, BEFORE you read this! http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=160851 Other than that, enjoy! ;-) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com ARS KC7GR (Formerly WD6EOS) since 12-77 -- kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com "Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati" (Red Green, aka Steve Smith) From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Oct 18 16:52:23 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:31 2005 Subject: help: Brikon Floppy drive tester Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031018175223.007e7d80@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Hi, I have a couple of Brikon model 723 floppy drive testers made by Brian Instruments of Fullerton, California. One of the testers that I have has the "R" option. The "R" option is a feature that includes a bunch of flying leads tahat you can attach to various test points on the drive under test and measure various analog parameters. It's shown in the factory brochure and it appears to be a ribbon cable with a small blue box on it and about 8 or 10 individual leads coming out of the box. The leads appear to have banana plugs on them where they plug into the box and the other ends have grabber clips on them. Does anyone have one of these cable/pods? If so can you send me the pin out so that I can make one or can I borrow it long enough to make schematics of it? Joe From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sat Oct 18 19:29:57 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:31 2005 Subject: Naming schemes (was upcoming classiccmp wierdness) In-Reply-To: Jochen Kunz "Re: Naming schemes (was upcoming classiccmp wierdness)" (Oct 18, 18:47) References: <3F909F81.B0E376E8@bellsouth.net> <10310181440.ZM4339@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <20031019014750.GE1396@oblina.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <10310190129.ZM4882@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Oct 18, 18:47, Jochen Kunz wrote: > On 2003.10.18 06:40 Pete Turnbull wrote: > > > Mine are an assortment of groups. > My "primary" names are James, MissSophie, SirTobie, MrWinterbottom and > AdmVonSchneider. If you don't know these names, well, I can't explain > the origin. You have to see the film. ;-) "Dinner For One". I've not see it for years, though. It should be "Toby" though, not "Tobie" :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From classiccmp at crash.com Sat Oct 18 20:54:14 2003 From: classiccmp at crash.com (Steven M Jones) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:31 2005 Subject: Naming schemes Message-ID: <200310190154.h9J1sEe02542@abort.crash.com> Oh what the heck, why not do my bit to congest the network... Can't tell who wrote: > > I'd be interested to find out what network names/nicknames some other > classiccmpers have given their machines. I picked crash.com in the Great Internet Domain Name Land Grab back in early 1994. Hard to believe what wasn't taken back then. As to why, well, what do computers do at the least convenient times? What logically followed (to me) was a series of names based on Unix signals. abort.crash.com Desktop buserr.crash.com Desktop fpe.crash.com Web server hup.crash.com Current firewall int.crash.com temporary, new machines io.crash.com File server segv.crash.com Old firewall term.crash.com Livingston Portmaster They've all been different machines at different times, as these are role-based names as much as anything else. And of course they have CNAMEs/aliases of the proper format: SIGHUP, SIGINT, etc. Other naming schemes in use are predictable. The Sun's are Egyptian gods (Ra Sparc 10/52, Thoth Sparc 20/92 (yes, 90MHz), Horus and Osiris are Ultra 30's, the Sun-4/260, 3/50 & 3/60 haven't been revived yet). The DEC MIPS and Alphas are Indian gods (Kali 5000/260, Hanuman a 3000/300lx, Siva a 600MHz PC164LX rack, new AS1200 and AS4000 haven't been named yet). The VAXen don't conform to this, I can't recall the name given to the uVAX 3400, the VS3100m38 only went far enough to confirm that it worked, and the 4000/500 is OMEGA. If I get the 11/730 running, I'll worry about a name then. The big problem there is what to do for mass storage, as I don't have a Unibus SCSI card and don't want to use a second backplane. OTOH, it might be faster to boot diskless and run over the net than hook up an R80... . The DG Aviions aren't really part of the network, and their names are stopgaps. An AV410 is "lilav", and the AV530's are Edson and Webo. I can't recall what name was given to the AV5500 just now. The cluster project was named arg.crash.com. The individual nodes (Soyo dual Slot 1 mobo's with Celerons on slockets - gives you an idea of timeframe!) were arg0, arg1, arg2, etc. I was tempted to rename the whole cluster argv, but... Laptops have been Slim (DEC HiNote Ultra), Slate (ThinkPad 600X), and now Folly (a ThinkPad T23 1400x1050 that I shouldn't have put the money into). Network attached HP LaserJet 4+ is Hardcopy. From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org Sat Oct 18 21:34:30 2003 From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:31 2005 Subject: The UNIBUS FAQ is wrong about grant cards, isn't it? Message-ID: <3F91F836.4050903@aurora.regenstrief.org> Hi, the UNIBUS FAQ sais that the grant cards G727A is a dual-height card with NPG grant. But from the cards I have I see the G727A is a single height card with only bus grant, not NPG, and it is a knucklebuster. The one that's dual-height and has handles is the G7273. I also have a 3rd party vendor dual height bus+NPG grant card. I suppose it shouldn't be too hard to make grant cards yourself. I think I have my VAX11/780 UNIBUS under control now. I threw out all cards except for the UDA50 pair, put in a new terminator and filled all with appropriate grant cards. Now the UDA50 initializes fine and I get the 8/9 blink fine the port-A light goes on on the RA90. Still the VAX doesn't seem to get anywhere and after a while the lights go off. May be I'm too impatient and should just wait long enough? -Gunther From ian_primus at yahoo.com Sat Oct 18 22:11:00 2003 From: ian_primus at yahoo.com (Ian Primus) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:31 2005 Subject: IBM System/23 ROM help needed Message-ID: This is yet another incomplete project that I am trying to finish... I have an IBM System/23 Datamaster, and I am attempting to get it to work. When turned on, it displays a series of numbers on the screen, and stops at "FD". Of the numbers printed, "0B" is inverted and flashing. I found a listing of the error codes in google's cache of classiccmp.org (part of the archive seems to be down). http://216.239.51.104/search?q=cache:83dbK69EHG8J:www.classiccmp.org/ mail-archive/classiccmp/1997-07/0566.html+IBM+System/ 23+error+site:www.classiccmp.org&hl=en&ie=UTF-8 According to this, the error code "0B" indicates that one of the ROM chips on the logic board has failed. The chip is soldered to the board, but replacing it with a socket and an EPROM shouldn't be a problem, but I don't know anything about these chips, or if they have an EPROM equivalent. I have repaired my EPROM programmer, so I now have the ability to burn my own EPROM chips. The problem I face now is that I need the data for the new chip. Does anyone have a ROM image of this chip that they could send me? Also, does anyone know the pinouts of these ROM chips on the System/23 board? (or as IBM calls them, ROS modules, for Read Only Storage). Thanks! Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com From nico at farumdata.dk Sat Oct 18 23:42:19 2003 From: nico at farumdata.dk (Nico de Jong) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:31 2005 Subject: Brikon Floppy drive tester References: <3.0.6.32.20031018175223.007e7d80@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <001401c395fb$61b6b680$2101a8c0@farumdata.dk> From: "Joe" Subject: help: Brikon Floppy drive tester > The leads appear to have > banana plugs on them where they plug into the box and the other ends have > grabber clips on them. Hi Joe I couldnt resist the temptation. Clips like the ones you mention, have a specific name in Dutch : "schoonmoeder" or in english "Mother in Law" Nico From vance at neurotica.com Sun Oct 19 01:29:41 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:31 2005 Subject: Naming schemes (was upcoming classiccmp wierdness) In-Reply-To: <200310181052.02972.meltie@meltie.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 18 Oct 2003, Alex White wrote: > > > I'd be interested to find out what network names/nicknames some > > > other classiccmpers have given their machines. > > I name my boxxen after vodkas - Stolichnaya, Ursus, Charodei, Rain, > Chopin... Ones that don't get much use generally get put down as "3100" > or similar though. Network devices get their own explanatory names - > gateway, ds300, router etc Got one called Wyborowa? Ahh. My favorite. Peace... Sridhar From ericj at speakeasy.org Sun Oct 19 01:58:17 2003 From: ericj at speakeasy.org (Eric Josephson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:31 2005 Subject: Mac SE/30 revival In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 2 Oct 2003 liste@artware.qc.ca wrote: > don't have the extra special long torx driver to get at the 2 top screws. > And the hex extention bits I have don't fit into the hole. If there's a Sears in your area, they (Craftsman) have a T15 driver with a 6" shank that's perfect for the job. Part number 47431. Regards, -- Eric Josephson From eric at brouhaha.com Sun Oct 19 02:17:39 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:31 2005 Subject: Naming schemes (was upcoming classiccmp wierdness) In-Reply-To: References: <20031018032940.AB10F3EA51@www.fastmail.fm> Message-ID: <33975.64.169.63.74.1066547859.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Sellam wrote: > My naming scheme is easy: > > Main desktop PC: "Piece of shit running Windows XP" > Laptop: "Piece of shit running Windows 2000" > Backup PC: "Piece of shit running Windows 98" Totally lacking in subtlety. Most of my machines run Linux. The one that runs Windows, needed because there's no Linux drivers for the Ricoh IS520 high-speed scanner, is named "bluescreen". From arcarlini at iee.org Sun Oct 19 03:44:12 2003 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:31 2005 Subject: Naming schemes In-Reply-To: <200310190154.h9J1sEe02542@abort.crash.com> Message-ID: <000c01c3961d$2b9244d0$5b01a8c0@athlon> > The VAXen don't conform to this, I can't recall the name > given to the uVAX 3400, the VS3100m38 only went far enough to > confirm that it worked, and the 4000/500 is OMEGA. If I get > the 11/730 running, I'll worry about a name then. The big The VAX 4000-500 codename was Omega so you could use the VAX-11/730's codename, Nebula to fit in (and the VAX-11/725 was LCN - Low Cost Nebula). > problem there is what to do for mass storage, as I don't have > a Unibus SCSI card and don't want to use a second backplane. > OTOH, it might be faster to boot diskless and run over the > net than hook up an R80... . The DG Aviions aren't really It will boot from the TU58 but I don't know of anything that will then boot it over the net over MOP. Writing something to use bootp and tftp would be an interesting project! Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Sun Oct 19 14:14:20 2003 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:31 2005 Subject: Naming schemes In-Reply-To: <000c01c3961d$2b9244d0$5b01a8c0@athlon>; from arcarlini@iee.org on Sun, Oct 19, 2003 at 01:44:12 %z References: <000c01c3961d$2b9244d0$5b01a8c0@athlon> Message-ID: <20031019191420.GA1357@oblina.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 2003.10.19 01:44 Antonio Carlini wrote: [VAX-11/730] > > OTOH, it might be faster to boot diskless and run over the > > net than hook up an R80... . > It will boot from the TU58 but I don't know of anything that > will then boot it over the net over MOP. Writing something > to use bootp and tftp would be an interesting project! The NetBSD/VAX boot loader? It uses DHCP and NFS to load an ELF image. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz From rhudson at cnonline.net Sun Oct 19 07:47:54 2003 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:31 2005 Subject: Naming schemes (was upcoming classiccmp wierdness) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <755BB8F4-0232-11D8-8339-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> On Sunday, October 19, 2003, at 01:29 AM, vance@neurotica.com wrote: > On Sat, 18 Oct 2003, Alex White wrote: > >>>> I'd be interested to find out what network names/nicknames some >>>> other classiccmpers have given their machines. >> >> I name my boxxen after vodkas - Stolichnaya, Ursus, Charodei, Rain, >> Chopin... Ones that don't get much use generally get put down as >> "3100" >> or similar though. Network devices get their own explanatory names - >> gateway, ds300, router etc > > Got one called Wyborowa? Ahh. My favorite. Wyborowa vodka when you can get you own? :^) > > Peace... Sridhar > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sun Oct 19 07:56:20 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:31 2005 Subject: Brikon Floppy drive tester In-Reply-To: <001401c395fb$61b6b680$2101a8c0@farumdata.dk> References: <3.0.6.32.20031018175223.007e7d80@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031019085620.007d32c0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 06:42 AM 10/19/03 +0200, Nico wrote: >From: "Joe" >Subject: help: Brikon Floppy drive tester > > >> The leads appear to have >> banana plugs on them where they plug into the box and the other ends have >> grabber clips on them. > >Hi Joe >I couldnt resist the temptation. >Clips like the ones you mention, have a specific name in Dutch : "schoonmoeder" or in english "Mother in Law" > Sounds like a good name for them! Joe From vance at neurotica.com Sun Oct 19 08:05:03 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:31 2005 Subject: Naming schemes (was upcoming classiccmp wierdness) In-Reply-To: <755BB8F4-0232-11D8-8339-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 19 Oct 2003, Ron Hudson wrote: > > Got one called Wyborowa? Ahh. My favorite. > > Wyborowa vodka when you can get you own? > > > > :^) LOL Too bad it's not pronounced that way. For those who don't know: Vee-bow-rove-ah Peace... Sridhar From classiccmp at crash.com Sun Oct 19 11:13:50 2003 From: classiccmp at crash.com (Steven M Jones) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:31 2005 Subject: Netbooting VAX-11/730 (was Re: Naming schemes) Message-ID: <200310191613.h9JGDoe15201@abort.crash.com> I wrote: > If I get the 11/730 running, I'll worry about a name then. > [mentioned net-booting] Antonio Carlini wrote: > It will boot from the TU58 but I don't know of anything that > will then boot it over the net over MOP. Jochen Kunz suggested: > The NetBSD/VAX boot loader? > It uses DHCP and NFS to load an ELF image. This might work. This 11/730 was packaged in a low-boy (~42" tall) rack with RL02 on top, an R80 on the bottom. I received the host because it was crashing on bad sectors in the R80, and the person using it was given a free 11/750 & rack of RA81s from another lab. The TU58 might be a bit cramped for a full-on bootloader with all kinds of network support at 256k minus whatever else needs to be on there for the machine to boot to the console. However, if it can then read a more complete loader from the RL02, or even a miniroot... Hmmm... Very Interesting... --Steve. From vcf at siconic.com Sun Oct 19 12:32:01 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:31 2005 Subject: Naming schemes (was upcoming classiccmp wierdness) In-Reply-To: <33975.64.169.63.74.1066547859.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 19 Oct 2003, Eric Smith wrote: > Sellam wrote: > > My naming scheme is easy: > > > > Main desktop PC: "Piece of shit running Windows XP" > > Laptop: "Piece of shit running Windows 2000" > > Backup PC: "Piece of shit running Windows 98" > > Totally lacking in subtlety. Well, it was as much a commentary on this seasonal thread as it is on the OS that I choose to run on my computers. My important machines run Linux, i.e. my webserver and firewall. I couldn't trust Windows to run anything without my constant supervision, and those are two functions that I do not want to have to constantly supervise. Windows is like the retarded child of the OS family. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Oct 19 13:10:58 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:31 2005 Subject: ASR33 Teletype interfacing In-Reply-To: <1066068883.12064.17.camel@linux.local> from "Tom Jennings" at Oct 13, 3 11:14:43 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1933 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20031019/1a6b5392/attachment.ksh From rdd at rddavis.org Sun Oct 19 14:18:27 2003 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:31 2005 Subject: air filters In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20031019191148.GA327@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Tony Duell, from writings of Thu, Oct 16, 2003 at 09:41:11PM +0100: > > I constructed my PDP-8 replica with materials all found at Home Depot (or > > Lowes since it's closer, but the people at HD in my area are pretty > > Your DIY stores keep ICs, etc???? No. Imagine what it would be like trying to find one if they did. After all, this afternoon, the manager of the electrical department at the local Lowes store didn't even know what an Edison base fuse was. Doh! ...and the electrical department sales droid that I spoke with over the telephone, who had to ask him what one was, didn't know either. The sales droid told me that her manager was an electrician, and I told her that he had no business being one if if didn't know what an Edison base fuse was. Next, I explained what an Edison base fuse looked like, then proceeded to tell her that the people working in the local small hardware store, which Lowes helped to drive out of business, knew what an Edison base fuse was. About the aforementioned small hardware store: the owner, a very pleasant older gentleman, was in his 90's, and he just died recently while the store was still having it's going out of business sale... it appeared that he knew more about hardware than all of the employees in all of the Home Depot's and Lowes stores combined... plus, he spoke, and could comprehend, fluent English... something that many of the minorities (more like majorities in many areas though) and immigrants working in those big stores don't appear to be able to do! (yes, I know, that wasn't a politically correct statement, however, it was the truth; screw political correctness, which is helping to destroy western civilization) > My moan is not that the salesdroids are not knowledgable. I don't expect > them to be. All I expect them to be able to do is to find me the item > that I am asking for. If I want some 20mm M3 screws, then they should > know where they are. Most of the time they don't. Yes, that's the problem. They don't even know much about their inventory. Despite the size of those stores, the selection of inventory is still lacking. Try finding hose supplies in the middle of the winter, and be told something like "that's a seasonal item, we won't be getting any more until spring." Ok, so, I guess I was supposed to either tell the horses that needed water that a hose coupling was a seasonal item, or else carry many five gallon buckets of water from the stream to the barns; yes, right. > I don't expect them to tell me how to use the stuff, or to suggest what > product I need (in fact, I find it _very annoying_ if I go to a shop and > ask for a particular product and the salesdroid finds me something else > which is 'just as good'. Hint : If I ask for something by name, then I "But look, this is made in China, Japan, Outer Mongolia, Mexico or Ungabungaland, and its cheaper, uh, somewhat inferior, but cheaper, and our profit margin is higher if you buy it." > have a good reaso nfor wanting just that item, I'd use a generic term if > I didn't care). They're not in business to sell us what we want or need. We're supposed to exist only to increase profits for shareholders and to help increase government revenues. -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From eric at brouhaha.com Sun Oct 19 14:11:21 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:31 2005 Subject: ASR33 Teletype interfacing In-Reply-To: References: <1066068883.12064.17.camel@linux.local> from "Tom Jennings" atOct 13, 3 11:14:43 am Message-ID: <34246.64.169.63.74.1066590681.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Tony wrote: > To avod further confusion, ASR33s are ASCII machines (the Model 32 is the > baudot equivalent). You don't need any code conversion for the ASR33. You need at least a little bit of code conversion if you're using a model 33 with the standard type element with equipment that uses modern character sets, as the model 33 uses the 1963 ASCII standard (ANSI X3.4-1963) rather than the later versions of X3.4 or the current ANSI INCITS 4-1986. For instance, the modern caret (ASCII 0x5e, Unicode 0x005e) and underscore (ASCII 0x5f, Unicode 0x005f) characters are not available on the model 33. And the model 33's up arrow and back arrow characters, 0x5e and 0x5f, should be translated to Unicode 0x2191 and 0x2190, respectively. I don't recall whether the model 33 escape key sends the X3.4-1963 escape code, 0x7e, or the modern escape code, 0x1b. In modern ASCII and most ASCII-derived character sets, 0x7e is the tilde character. From jcwren at jcwren.com Sun Oct 19 14:36:10 2003 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:31 2005 Subject: air filters In-Reply-To: <20031019191148.GA327@rhiannon.rddavis.org> References: <20031019191148.GA327@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <200310191536.10912.jcwren@jcwren.com> My friends judgement of a good hardware store started with if there were any horse collars hanging on the wall or not. No horse collar, bad store. So one day, we're standing around in the hardware store (Dux, down near Georgia Tech, about 15 years ago. Prerequisite horse collar on wall), and this guy about 70 walks in, holds up a part and says "You got one of these?" The hardware guy goes "That's a butterfly valve from a 1936 Ford tractor, and I got two of'em. $10 each, or $17 for the pair." We stood agog. --John On Sunday 19 October 2003 15:11 pm, R. D. Davis wrote: > Quothe Tony Duell, from writings of Thu, Oct 16, 2003 at 09:41:11PM +0100: > > > I constructed my PDP-8 replica with materials all found at Home Depot > > > (or Lowes since it's closer, but the people at HD in my area are pretty > > > > Your DIY stores keep ICs, etc???? > > No. Imagine what it would be like trying to find one if they did. > After all, this afternoon, the manager of the electrical department at > the local Lowes store didn't even know what an Edison base fuse was. > Doh! ...and the electrical department sales droid that I spoke with > over the telephone, who had to ask him what one was, didn't know > either. The sales droid told me that her manager was an electrician, > and I told her that he had no business being one if if didn't know > what an Edison base fuse was. Next, I explained what an Edison base > fuse looked like, then proceeded to tell her that the people working > in the local small hardware store, which Lowes helped to drive out of > business, knew what an Edison base fuse was. > > About the aforementioned small hardware store: the owner, a very > pleasant older gentleman, was in his 90's, and he just died recently > while the store was still having it's going out of business sale... it > appeared that he knew more about hardware than all of the employees in > all of the Home Depot's and Lowes stores combined... plus, he spoke, > and could comprehend, fluent English... something that many of the > minorities (more like majorities in many areas though) and immigrants > working in those big stores don't appear to be able to do! (yes, I > know, that wasn't a politically correct statement, however, it was the > truth; screw political correctness, which is helping to destroy > western civilization) > > > My moan is not that the salesdroids are not knowledgable. I don't expect > > them to be. All I expect them to be able to do is to find me the item > > that I am asking for. If I want some 20mm M3 screws, then they should > > know where they are. Most of the time they don't. > > Yes, that's the problem. They don't even know much about their > inventory. Despite the size of those stores, the selection of > inventory is still lacking. Try finding hose supplies in the middle > of the winter, and be told something like "that's a seasonal item, we > won't be getting any more until spring." Ok, so, I guess I was > supposed to either tell the horses that needed water that a hose > coupling was a seasonal item, or else carry many five gallon buckets > of water from the stream to the barns; yes, right. > > > I don't expect them to tell me how to use the stuff, or to suggest what > > product I need (in fact, I find it _very annoying_ if I go to a shop and > > ask for a particular product and the salesdroid finds me something else > > which is 'just as good'. Hint : If I ask for something by name, then I > > "But look, this is made in China, Japan, Outer Mongolia, Mexico or > Ungabungaland, and its cheaper, uh, somewhat inferior, but cheaper, > and our profit margin is higher if you buy it." > > > have a good reaso nfor wanting just that item, I'd use a generic term if > > I didn't care). > > They're not in business to sell us what we want or need. We're supposed > to exist only to increase profits for shareholders and to help increase > government revenues. From teoz at neo.rr.com Sun Oct 19 14:47:14 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:31 2005 Subject: air filters References: <20031019191148.GA327@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <006b01c39679$cb911cc0$3d7ca418@neo.rr.com> Interesting thread. I just love it when people complain about the big chain stores not having what they want or having it but salespeople are clueless while the small mom & pop places know their stuff and have what you need. The fact is people are extremely cheap. The big chain stores buy what 90% of the public wants in huge quantities stacked up in large stores being sold by minimum wage workers. How many times have you seen somebody picking the brains of a knowledgeable store owner and then leave only to buy the item he needed from the internet, chain store, or some other place thats cheaper. The buying public is what has killed small specialty stores, quality manufactured items, and employees that know what they are doing. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Oct 19 15:00:40 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:31 2005 Subject: Data I/O Series 22 EPROM Programmer help In-Reply-To: from "Ian Primus" at Oct 13, 3 09:04:33 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2615 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20031019/d31e67cc/attachment.ksh From vance at neurotica.com Sun Oct 19 15:22:55 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:31 2005 Subject: air filters In-Reply-To: <20031019191148.GA327@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: On 19 Oct 2003, R. D. Davis wrote: > minorities (more like majorities in many areas though) and immigrants > working in those big stores don't appear to be able to do! (yes, I know, > that wasn't a politically correct statement, however, it was the truth; > screw political correctness, which is helping to destroy western > civilization) Except for the fact that most of the immigrants I know speak English much better than the *vast* majority of n-th generation Americans I know. Most Americans I run across can't understand English for shit. Peace... Sridhar From ian_primus at yahoo.com Sun Oct 19 15:49:56 2003 From: ian_primus at yahoo.com (Ian Primus) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:31 2005 Subject: ASR33 Teletype interfacing In-Reply-To: <34246.64.169.63.74.1066590681.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: On Sunday, October 19, 2003, at 03:11 PM, Eric Smith wrote: > Tony wrote: >> To avod further confusion, ASR33s are ASCII machines (the Model 32 is >> the >> baudot equivalent). You don't need any code conversion for the ASR33. > > You need at least a little bit of code conversion if you're using a > model > 33 with the standard type element with equipment that uses modern > character > sets, as the model 33 uses the 1963 ASCII standard (ANSI X3.4-1963) > rather > than the later versions of X3.4 or the current ANSI INCITS 4-1986. > For instance, the modern caret (ASCII 0x5e, Unicode 0x005e) and > underscore > (ASCII 0x5f, Unicode 0x005f) characters are not available on the model > 33. > And the model 33's up arrow and back arrow characters, 0x5e and 0x5f, > should > be translated to Unicode 0x2191 and 0x2190, respectively. I don't > recall > whether the model 33 escape key sends the X3.4-1963 escape code, 0x7e, > or the modern escape code, 0x1b. In modern ASCII and most > ASCII-derived > character sets, 0x7e is the tilde character. I'm not really sure what kind of type element my model 33 has. One thing I did notice, however, is that the zero and the letter O are both 'switched'. Normally, on a modern system, the zero will have a line through it, and the letter O will not. On this teletype, it is the other way around. The keyboard and the type element both are like this, and it is the only teletype I have seen that has them reversed. The other model 33's I have seen pictures of on the 'net have normal zero and O keys. Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com From teoz at neo.rr.com Sun Oct 19 15:59:13 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:31 2005 Subject: air filters References: Message-ID: <009e01c39683$da39a940$3d7ca418@neo.rr.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "R. D. Davis" Cc: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2003 4:22 PM Subject: Re: air filters > On 19 Oct 2003, R. D. Davis wrote: > > > minorities (more like majorities in many areas though) and immigrants > > working in those big stores don't appear to be able to do! (yes, I know, > > that wasn't a politically correct statement, however, it was the truth; > > screw political correctness, which is helping to destroy western > > civilization) > > Except for the fact that most of the immigrants I know speak English much > better than the *vast* majority of n-th generation Americans I know. Most > Americans I run across can't understand English for shit. > > Peace... Sridhar > It used to be immigrants coming to the USA had problems with English because it wasn't taught in their schools (if they even went to school). Today foreign schools teach English better then most English schools while foreign students probably try harder to learn then the vast majority of American youth. When I was in college during the late 80's and early 90's the foreign students were the ones trying very hard to study and learn everything while most Americans were off at the frat house getting drunk. Its easy to get fat and lazy when you live in the land of plenty and consider yourself to be destined to have a good job and life because your an American. People from countries outside the USA have to try very hard to get the same opportunities we take for granted here and are not eager to blow it if they are one of the lucky few to make it here. Ever wonder why most post graduate courses in college are flooded with people of other countries? The problem I have with political correctness is that students today are not graded like they used to be, who actually flunks out of English in elementary schools even if they cant read? Its not politically correct to tell a parent their kid is stupid because it will make them feel bad. Are we better off with "no child is left behind" in our school system when it just lowers the requirements so everybody can get an A and pass (are schools even using a grading system anymore or just pass/fail with everyone passing?). . From ian_primus at yahoo.com Sun Oct 19 17:10:35 2003 From: ian_primus at yahoo.com (Ian Primus) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:31 2005 Subject: Data I/O Series 22 EPROM Programmer help In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1020C440-0281-11D8-982F-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> On Sunday, October 19, 2003, at 04:00 PM, Tony Duell wrote: >> The more I tinker with this, the more I am suspecting a hardware >> problem. While trying to revive the power supply, I was measuring >> voltages that were pretty far off, all of them too low. Now, the power >> supply seems to have stabilized, and the voltages are consistently >> close to correct. They are a fuzz low, but it's within the > > Have you checked the supply lines for ripple (using as 'scope)? If not, > do so -- some regulators get confused if there's significant ripple, > and > set the average voltage too low. Of course ripple will cause problems > for > the rest of the circuitry too. > >> specifications that the manual gives. (i.e. 15 volts is about 14.8 >> volts, but it's close enough). I measured voltages at the 1488 and >> 1489 >> chips, and they are just about what the data sheet says is nominal >> (Nominal is 9V, and -9v, I'm reading about 8.9v and -8.89v). But, from > > The 1488 will work fine at that voltage. > >> the looks of the solder and some residual flux on the top of the >> board, >> it almost looks like the 1488 has been replaced before. If this chip >> is > > Quite possible. Line drivers (and other chips connected to external > connectors) live a hard life, and are often damaged by misconnections > to > said connectors (although the 1488 is generally pretty immune to such > damage) and voltages induced on cables connected to the connectors. > >> bad, I would assume that it would prevent me from seeing any output, >> but the input would still work, since the 1489 is obviously > > Yes. > >> functioning. If I feel adventurous later this afternoon, I think I am >> going to try to desolder the 1488 and replace it with a socket. I know >> I have another 1488 or two kicking around here, so I'll see if that >> does any good. > > Trace the data output pin on the RS232 connector back to the 1488. Then > use a 'scope or logic analyser to see if that section of the 1488 gets > any input data (the input is at normal TTL levels, BTW). If it does, > then > the 1488 is faulty. If not, then you've got a problem further back > (either the serial chip is defective, or more likely it's not being > told > to send anything by the programmer's firmware). > > Have you looked at the handshake lines at the RS232 connector. I would > start by making sure that all the input handshakes (CTS, DSR, CD on a > DTE > device, for example) are connected to a +ve voltage (if you can find an > output handshake line that's +ve, use that, otherwise use a 9V battery > for testing, +ve termianl to the handshake lines, -ve terminal to > signal > ground). Some devices won't send anything if one of the handshake lines > is deasserted. > > -tony I did manage to get the EPROM programmer working the other day, I should have posted it... sorry. But, thanks for the help, and I'll keep this email so I have a starting point if it dies again. I ended up replacing a limping capacitor in the power supply, as well as the 1488. Now, I am able to read, write and erase EPROM chips just fine (it has a built in UV lamp). I do still have a major problem, although it isn't hardware related. I really need 2732 EPROM chips for making Atari 2600 cartridges. I only have one at the moment. I was successful in making a 2732 EPROM cart, a 2764 EPROM multicart (two games on one cart with a switch to select them), and a partially working 27256 EPROM cart with three switches to select the games. But, I really would like to be able to make permanent, single game carts for homebrew titles (currently, all I have made are test carts with sockets), and the 2732 EPROM is the easiest thing to deal with when making carts, since I don't have to cut part of the board to make it fit. I have a very large pile of 27cx321 chips, made by a company called ICT, but I have been unable to program them, since my programmer doesn't have the codes for them in the manual, and they don't work at the normal 2732 setting. I can't find the pinout or any information on these chips anywhere, so I don't know what they would be equivilent to. Also, I don't know if there is an updated chart for the Data I/O Series 22, I have version 05 firmware, but the chart in the manual only goes up to version 02. Data I/O has no information on this programmer on their web site, other than a message saying that they no longer support them. Any ideas? Also, somewhat EPROM programmer related, does anyone know what type of PROM chips are used in the IBM System/23 Datamaster? I haven't been able to identify them, the markings seem to be IBM part numbers, instead of PROM part numbers. I need to replace a bad chip in my System/23 (see my other post about the System/23). Also, while I'm at it, I would like to back up the code in the other PROM chips as well (or at least the ones that are in sockets), if one chip is suffering from bit rot already, I am concerned about the others as well. If anyone else on the list has a working Datamaster with socketed ROM chips, I would suggest dumping all the ROMs if possible, I know of at least one other System/23 out there with a bad ROM problem, and there are likely to be more in the future. Thanks for your help! Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Oct 19 17:10:51 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:31 2005 Subject: ASR33 Teletype interfacing In-Reply-To: <34246.64.169.63.74.1066590681.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> from "Eric Smith" at Oct 19, 3 12:11:21 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1302 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20031019/96346d4a/attachment.ksh From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sun Oct 19 17:30:48 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:31 2005 Subject: air filters In-Reply-To: <009e01c39683$da39a940$3d7ca418@neo.rr.com> References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031019183048.007e7b60@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 04:59 PM 10/19/03 -0400, TeoZ wrote: > >----- Original Message ----- >From: >To: "R. D. Davis" >Cc: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > >Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2003 4:22 PM >Subject: Re: air filters > > >> On 19 Oct 2003, R. D. Davis wrote: >> >> > minorities (more like majorities in many areas though) and immigrants >> > working in those big stores don't appear to be able to do! (yes, I know, >> > that wasn't a politically correct statement, however, it was the truth; >> > screw political correctness, which is helping to destroy western >> > civilization) >> >> Except for the fact that most of the immigrants I know speak English much >> better than the *vast* majority of n-th generation Americans I know. Most >> Americans I run across can't understand English for shit. >> >> Peace... Sridhar >> > >It used to be immigrants coming to the USA had problems with English because >it wasn't taught in their schools (if they even went to school). Today >foreign schools teach English better then most English schools That might have something to do with the fact that American schools are busy teaching languages OTHER than English! Things like Spanish, Vietnamese, Korean, Eubonics and crap like that. I read that the schools in Kalifornia and now teaching something like 31 different languages! Other than that I agree with everything you said. Don't get me started about the school system! I just got back from vistiting relatives including two of them that work in "special education" in the school system. BOTH of them work full time but only work with ONE student each. Multiple that times a million or so special education sudents in this country. It's no wonder that the schools can't manage to teach the regular students. Joe From ohh at drizzle.com Sun Oct 19 17:57:54 2003 From: ohh at drizzle.com (O. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:31 2005 Subject: Available PDP-11 Cabinet, St. Louis References: Message-ID: <3F9316F2.EAB64B3D@drizzle.com> Like I said a couple of days ago, I'm meeting the nicest people lately. :) Though I still haven't found the PDP-12 I can afford to buy just yet, I have found an empty PDP-11 rack looking for a good home: > This is not exactly what you were looking for but I have a PDP-11 > cabinet i would like to give away, it is the rack only with a pdp-11 > bottom panel, ~6' tall, 2 fans in top, some slides installed, on > casters with leveler feet. Free to a good home. I am in the ST. Louis > area. Anyone interested, particularly in or near St. Louis, can e-mail the owner at "rhugh a-in-a-circle att black-spot net" (with the two appropriate, and I hope obvious, substitutions). -O.- From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun Oct 19 18:21:42 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:31 2005 Subject: Data I/O Series 22 EPROM Programmer help In-Reply-To: Ian Primus "Re: Data I/O Series 22 EPROM Programmer help" (Oct 19, 18:10) References: <1020C440-0281-11D8-982F-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <10310200021.ZM6839@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Oct 19, 18:10, Ian Primus wrote: > > I have a very large pile of 27cx321 > chips, made by a company called ICT, but I have been unable to program > them, since my programmer doesn't have the codes for them in the > manual, and they don't work at the normal 2732 setting. No, they don't, and if you try it, you may destroy them. They're high-speed (usually 35ns, but the suffix -35, -40, or -45 gives the actual number) 4k x 8 UV-erasable EPROMs, and to get the speed they use a different cell construction and a different programming technique. The bits in an erased device are "undefined" and whether you want a '1' or a '0' you have to program the actual value. Pinout is pretty much the same as a 2732 except that pin 20 is /CS1 instead of /OE, and pin 18 is CS2 (active high) instead of /CE. My ICT data book doesn't give the programming algorithm, which is obviously proprietary. It just says contact ICT or use a DATA I/O Model 29B with Unipak 2 or 2B firmware version V15. Oh, and like every other EPROM manufacturer I know, ICT say that exposing it to UV for longer than necessary will affect reliability, shorten the life, or in extreme cases, destroy the device, so don't expose them to a UV eraser (standard 12mW/sq.cm) for more than 20 minutes. Overnight is a bad idea! -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From joel.bradley at comcast.net Sun Oct 19 18:54:29 2003 From: joel.bradley at comcast.net (joel.bradley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:31 2005 Subject: acrhival/displays Message-ID: <3a0401c3969c$55db3600$7fce7618@net.ce1.client2.attbi.com> Hey guys, I am 'new' to the list under this address. I have posted several times about CDC items I have available, and thank you to those who have expressed interest. I do not wish this to come off as a blatant advertisement, but it probabaly will. If any of you out there are looking to 'decorate' your offices or hobby spaces, keep on reading. One of my other hobbies is sports memorabilia and I have something that I developed for my own use in displaying my collection. Being that there has been talk about manuals, old computer magazines, and the like, I thought some of you might be interested in what I am 'selling' to display your ietms. I actually have them listed on eBay, but I can give a better price to those on the list that contact me directly. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2760307223 I have been a collector of magzines for almost 10 years and have been looking since I started for an attractive way to display my collection. In conjunction with a local custom acrylic fabricator, I came up with the following... The holders are made from a combination of 1/8" and 3/16" crystal clear anti-static (anti-dust!) acrylic and can be made to either 'hang' on the wall or 'stand' on a shelf/desktop. They are made from 2 pieces. Imagine one of the pieces is like a shoebox lid. The second piece is the 'back' of the holders slides in and out along a routed edge that is on 3 of the sides of the 'front', You access the box which holds the magazine by sliding the back out. The genius of this design is that it completely seals it inside for protection. They come in various sizes, as well as two 'flavors', hanging or standing. If you go to the listing on eBay, you will see a picture of the 'standing' kinds. I have pictures of my magazine collection using the 'hanging' type available as well. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2760307223 Feel free to contact me directly with questions. Thanks! Joel Bradley joel.bradley@comcast.net From aw288 at osfn.org Sun Oct 19 20:22:58 2003 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:31 2005 Subject: Naming schemes (was upcoming classiccmp wierdness) In-Reply-To: <33787.64.169.63.74.1066489227.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: > > I originally started out naming machines after colours - Red, Orange, > > Yellow, etc., > > And Octarine? Squant. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From ian_primus at yahoo.com Sun Oct 19 21:19:32 2003 From: ian_primus at yahoo.com (Ian Primus) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:31 2005 Subject: Data I/O Series 22 EPROM Programmer help In-Reply-To: <10310200021.ZM6839@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: On Sunday, October 19, 2003, at 07:21 PM, Pete Turnbull wrote: > On Oct 19, 18:10, Ian Primus wrote: >> >> I have a very large pile of 27cx321 >> chips, made by a company called ICT, but I have been unable to > program >> them, since my programmer doesn't have the codes for them in the >> manual, and they don't work at the normal 2732 setting. > > No, they don't, and if you try it, you may destroy them. They're > high-speed (usually 35ns, but the suffix -35, -40, or -45 gives the > actual number) 4k x 8 UV-erasable EPROMs, and to get the speed they use > a different cell construction and a different programming technique. > The bits in an erased device are "undefined" and whether you want a > '1' or a '0' you have to program the actual value. Pinout is pretty > much the same as a 2732 except that pin 20 is /CS1 instead of /OE, and > pin 18 is CS2 (active high) instead of /CE. Well, then I probably have two EPROM shaped paperweights... > > My ICT data book doesn't give the programming algorithm, which is > obviously proprietary. It just says contact ICT or use a DATA I/O > Model 29B with Unipak 2 or 2B firmware version V15. Gah, figures. Does anyone need any ICT 27cx321 EPROM chips? I'll trade for some regular 2732's... > Oh, and like every other EPROM manufacturer I know, ICT say that > exposing it to UV for longer than necessary will affect reliability, > shorten the life, or in extreme cases, destroy the device, so don't > expose them to a UV eraser (standard 12mW/sq.cm) for more than 20 > minutes. Overnight is a bad idea! I have just been erasing chips with the standard setting on the Data I/O's built in EPROM eraser, which is 35 minutes. But, I frequently take them out earlier, since I figure "It's blank enough". I need to get another eraser though, it's kind of a pain only being able to erase two chips at once. > -- > Pete Peter Turnbull > Network Manager > University of York Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com From andyh at andyh-rayleigh.freeserve.co.uk Mon Oct 20 00:58:17 2003 From: andyh at andyh-rayleigh.freeserve.co.uk (Andy Holt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:31 2005 Subject: Honeywell Level 6 in UK In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <003401c396cf$288c8400$4d4d2c0a@atx> Seen on eBay ... I might have been interested, but I haven't got my 11/34 home yet :-( Honeywell Level 6 Mini Computer Item number: 2760447755 Andy From eric at brouhaha.com Mon Oct 20 01:39:59 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:32 2005 Subject: ASR33 Teletype interfacing In-Reply-To: References: <34246.64.169.63.74.1066590681.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> from"Eric Smith" at Oct 19, 3 12:11:21 pm Message-ID: <34603.64.169.63.74.1066631999.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Tony wrote: > The caret and up-arrow characters look sufficiently similar that this > change makes little difference for the sort of applications where you'd > use an ASR33 these days (e.g. for the raise-to-power function in BASIC). The caret and uparrow, maybe. But trying to read Smalltalk code or the HP-41C ROM source code on a system that uses modern ASCII with the underscore instead of the backarrow really sucks. The Unicode mapping I suggested is *much* better for that, IMNSHO. Eric From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Oct 20 02:46:07 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:32 2005 Subject: Honeywell Level 6 in UK In-Reply-To: <003401c396cf$288c8400$4d4d2c0a@atx> References: <003401c396cf$288c8400$4d4d2c0a@atx> Message-ID: >Seen on eBay ... I might have been interested, but I haven't got my 11/34 >home yet :-( > >Honeywell Level 6 Mini Computer Item number: 2760447755 I hope someone rescues it, you don't see the likes of it in private hands very often, especially with software. Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From fmc at reanimators.org Mon Oct 20 08:18:22 2003 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:32 2005 Subject: sticky Sony 3.5" drive Message-ID: <200310201318.h9KDIMjc034474@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Found in an HP 9114A. Doesn't want to accept a diskette; it doesn't move the diskette down when fully inserted, but pushing the eject button ejects the diskette. Removed the drive from the 9114A, and pulled its cover; its heads appear to be intact and in place. I'm wondering what I need to clean and re-lubricate (and how, and what sort of lubricant to use); I'm thinking Tony Duell has told us all before but doggone if I can turn it up in my searches. -Frank McConnell From dundas at caltech.edu Mon Oct 20 10:10:35 2003 From: dundas at caltech.edu (John A. Dundas III) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:32 2005 Subject: Recommendations for archiving audio tapes Message-ID: I have a number of old DECUS U.S. Symposium audio tapes that I would like to archive before they completely disintegrate. I have a way to digitize these and store them in a variety of formats. I'm not sure what format is best for archive and distribution, though I assume something like WAV or AIFF for archive and MP3 for distribution. I have no prior experience at this and would appreciate any suggestions on the best approach. Also suggestions on who to contact to make these archives legally available on the web would be welcome. Is anyone else archiving these? As a teaser, here's what I have: 1987 Fall: N008 Understanding Ethernet N037 Cryptographic Security for Ethernet DA054 Optimizing VMS device Drivers for Realtime I/O V104 Tape 1 VAX Magic, War Stories, and Horror Tales V104 Tape 2 1988 Fall: PC031 Internal Enhancements to AppleTalk for VMS NE050 An Introduction to the Digital's Distributed Name Service (DNS) GR054 Renderman: A 3D Scene Description Interface for Computer Graphics System GR033F Computer Graphic and Visualization Thanks, John From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Oct 20 10:32:28 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:32 2005 Subject: sticky Sony 3.5" drive in HP disk drives In-Reply-To: <200310201318.h9KDIMjc034474@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031020113228.007e2c20@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Frank, You should have found this covered in the archives. I've posted it numerous times before. All the HP double sided floppy drives (9133, 9122, IPC drives, etc) have this problem. The grease used on them dries up and makes the mechanism stick. If you're not carefull the disk will catch on the upper head and tear it off completely or at least damage the R/W head's mount spring and throw it out of alignment. Be VERY careful inserting or removing a disk from one of these drives. To fix the drive, remove it from the chassis, remove it's cover and clean off the old grease using alcohol or another solvent. I have used spray carburator cleaner but I'm leary of it since it blasts stuff all over the place and I think it has enough pressure that it could tear a R/W head off or damage it's mounting spring. I usually just use alcohol and pour it over the sides of the drive and then use lint free towels and Q-tips to clean the grease off. Repeat several times to get all the old grease off. I try to avoid getting the alcohol and/or old grease in the rest of the drive especially the heads. Once you get the old grease off the mechanism should work pretty freely. I then relube it sparingly with a good quality gun grease. Gun grease is usually a high quality grease that won't gum up with age. I also clean the R/W heads while I have it apart. Replace the cover, reinstall the drive and it should work fine. Joe At 06:18 AM 10/20/03 -0700, you wrote: >Found in an HP 9114A. Doesn't want to accept a diskette; it doesn't >move the diskette down when fully inserted, but pushing the eject >button ejects the diskette. Removed the drive from the 9114A, and >pulled its cover; its heads appear to be intact and in place. I'm >wondering what I need to clean and re-lubricate (and how, and what >sort of lubricant to use); I'm thinking Tony Duell has told us all >before but doggone if I can turn it up in my searches. > >-Frank McConnell > From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Mon Oct 20 10:37:05 2003 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:32 2005 Subject: Recommendations for archiving audio tapes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: In message "John A. Dundas III" wrote: > what format is best for archive and distribution, though I assume > something like WAV or AIFF for archive and MP3 for distribution. I > have no prior experience at this and would appreciate any suggestions > on the best approach. Get yourself a decent tape recorder - not one of those elcheapo things, a proper full-size tape deck. I've been using a JVC TD-X335 to archive various old tapes. Make sure the heads are nice and clean, though. Don't waste time with those cleaning tapes - I lost a tape deck to one of those things. I'd use the cotton-wool-and-IPA method. Next, you'll need cables. Get the Line output from the tape deck hooked up to the Line input on your machine's sound card. With that done, load one of the tapes and set it playing. When the VU meter starts registering output, fire up some sound editing/capture software (I use Audacity on Linux) on your computer and start recording. Adjust the recording level on the computer until the line/bar/block on the computer's pseudo-VU meter is just touching the red segment of the meter. Stop the recording and rewind the tape. Start the computer recording - IME you should be using a sampling rate of 44100Hz, 16 bit, mono for a speech. I usually set the recorder to stereo and adjust the settings later (Audacity lets you split the left/right tracks, merge them, etc). Save in a lossless format - AIFF or WAV (raw PCM compression). 44100/16/Stereo is basically the format used by CDs - most CD recording software should happily burn these to a CD-R. For distribution, either make copies of the master CD-R (preferably from the CD image) or distribute them as OGGs. 64kbit should be more than enough for speech. Just FYI, an Ogg (more properly, Ogg Vorbis) file is a patent-free lossy compression format that's comparable to MP3. I'd use Ogg, simply for the reason that it's opensource and tends to be slightly better in terms of output file size vs. quality. Later. -- Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, philpem@dsl.pipex.com | ViewFinder, Ethernet (Acorn AEH62), http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ | 8xCD, framegrabber, Teletext My other vehicle is a Galaxy Class Starship From Mark at Misty.com Thu Oct 16 14:58:06 2003 From: Mark at Misty.com (Mark G. Thomas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:32 2005 Subject: IMSAI 8080 Message-ID: <20031016195806.GA18252@lucky.misty.com> Hi Bob, I have been having regrets about selling my Imsai-8080 a few years ago. Did you ever find a home for yours, or is it still up for sale? Mark -- Mark G. Thomas (Mark@Misty.com) voice: 215-591-3695 http://www.misty.com/ http://mail-cleaner.com/ From vax at onthenet.com.au Sun Oct 19 07:05:22 2003 From: vax at onthenet.com.au (Geoff Gunn) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:32 2005 Subject: SYSTEM 80 Schematics Message-ID: <00f801c39639$4b630a30$720690cb@vaxnnd7ssq1x6g> Mike, I just found you message about having the ciruit diagrams for a Disk Smith System 80. I found one of these the other day in a recyling center and always had a soft spot for them as it was first computer. The one I found works, but has a problem in the video circuit. It is repairable, but would be a lot easier if I had schematics to work from (I collect video games from the same era as well so my skills in repairing these would help me a great deal :) If you have a scan or even a photocopy of this manual, I would glady purchase it off you. Cheers, Geoff From PLancashire at columbia.com Sun Oct 19 11:00:18 2003 From: PLancashire at columbia.com (Lancashire, Pete) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:32 2005 Subject: Sad Day need help on replacing ASR35 and IBM 129 Verifier Message-ID: <88A237F0F2A83949BB50CA3CFB577B37011C7864@US-TRILLIUM.columbia.csc> I lost (in addition to lots of old computer items) two things I'm trying to get information for my insurance company on. The first is a ASR35 that was 'loaded', over the years I had converted a TWX ASR35 in to on that had every option you could think of. I just did a search of Google, and could find almost no references to it, sad in its own right. I also lost a ASR 38, but that's for another time. The other item destroyed, was a IBM 129 Punch card verifier. A 129 is a 29, with the ability to verify previously punched cards. It also could be used as a card reader. Mine had that option. Both were very clean, low usage. They both were 'backup' machines that in the case of the 129, had less then 100 hours on its run time meter. Both had full sets of manuals, spare parts etc. The 35 included a never used type unit in the box. So if anyone could help with where I can start to look for replacements, value etc. I would be most thankful. Thanks in advance for any leads -pete From PLancashire at columbia.com Sun Oct 19 11:02:04 2003 From: PLancashire at columbia.com (Lancashire, Pete) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:32 2005 Subject: still a green keys list ? Message-ID: <88A237F0F2A83949BB50CA3CFB577B37CE117D@US-TRILLIUM.columbia.csc> Gil, is the list still active ? if so would like to become a member. thanks -pete pete5520@pdxeng.com From allain at panix.com Mon Oct 20 10:53:34 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:32 2005 Subject: Recommendations for archiving audio tapes References: Message-ID: <03a301c39722$519976c0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> 44khz 16bit is the closest to CD quality I know of. I'll always use that for anything of importance. I have a Sony pro machine here, it really improved on the process. Level selection and noise reduction is much easier. I will master your tapes to CD for you free if you want. John A. From jbmcb at hotmail.com Mon Oct 20 11:25:22 2003 From: jbmcb at hotmail.com (Jason McBrien) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:32 2005 Subject: Recommendations for archiving audio tapes References: Message-ID: You could store them in FLAC or WavPack, both open source and free lossless audio codecs for archival purposes. If you do a good job on cleaning up the noise/hiss from the tapes, they can get you 2:1 compression. Not a whole lot, but half as big is better than nothing. MP3 has become the defacto standard for transmission, although RealAudio and ogg/vorbis tend to do better at very low (Re: smaller) bitrates. ----- Original Message ----- From: "John A. Dundas III" To: Sent: Monday, October 20, 2003 11:10 AM Subject: Recommendations for archiving audio tapes > I have a number of old DECUS U.S. Symposium audio tapes that I would > like to archive before they completely disintegrate. I have a way to > digitize these and store them in a variety of formats. I'm not sure > what format is best for archive and distribution, though I assume > something like WAV or AIFF for archive and MP3 for distribution. I > have no prior experience at this and would appreciate any suggestions > on the best approach. > > Also suggestions on who to contact to make these archives legally > available on the web would be welcome. > > Is anyone else archiving these? > > As a teaser, here's what I have: > > 1987 Fall: > N008 Understanding Ethernet > N037 Cryptographic Security for Ethernet > DA054 Optimizing VMS device Drivers for Realtime I/O > V104 Tape 1 VAX Magic, War Stories, and Horror Tales > V104 Tape 2 > > 1988 Fall: > PC031 Internal Enhancements to AppleTalk for VMS > NE050 An Introduction to the Digital's Distributed Name Service (DNS) > GR054 Renderman: A 3D Scene Description Interface for Computer > Graphics System > GR033F Computer Graphic and Visualization > > Thanks, > > John > > From jpl15 at panix.com Mon Oct 20 12:27:18 2003 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:32 2005 Subject: Recommendations for archiving audio tapes In-Reply-To: <03a301c39722$519976c0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> References: <03a301c39722$519976c0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: On Mon, 20 Oct 2003, John Allain wrote: > 44khz 16bit is the closest to CD quality I know of. 44.1KHtz at 16 bits it is - there is no 'closest'. Some machines have a 48K setting; this is for 'professional' DATs and things that need to sync to SMPTE/Video/etc without all the gearbox whickey - as I'm sure you're (painfully...?) aware of. ;} Ghod knows I've got enough of them bites on *my* ass ... And I also offered to master the tapes - I do a large amount of audio restoration (Edison cylinders on up), so it looks like the Symposium tapes will certainly be re-incarnated quite soon. Thanks John! Cheers John From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Mon Oct 20 12:44:09 2003 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:32 2005 Subject: Teledisk software to duplicate license floppy disk In-Reply-To: <3F9384FA.B9ADBC16@samling.com.my> References: <3F9384FA.B9ADBC16@samling.com.my> Message-ID: <200310201044090351.017A3866@192.168.42.129> I don't, Zhu, I'm sorry. However, please don't rule out the possibility of the OS or floppy drive being at fault. Teledisk should, ideally, be run under a strict DOS 6.22 environment, as that is what it was written to support. I've found, through direct experience, that it will run in a command window under Windows NT 4.0, but you may have different results. The other possibility is that the disk you're trying to archive has a format scheme that is so alien to PC-type floppy controllers that it simply cannot be read. Perhaps someone more experienced with floppy archiving than I am can comment on this. *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 20-Oct-03 at 14:47 Zhu Jin Yong wrote: >hi, > Just searched yahoo and found your email about teledisk tools.I also >encounted the same problems with errors such as "Drive A: is not ready. >Please correct and press any key to continue" especially when floppy >disk is running at final way. I just took out of this disk but this disk >can be nomally used even it got errors in process of td0 file creation. > > But recently,I got a problem using teledisk.Teledisk can't >colon(duplicate) Some authorization disk such as Siemens Simatic Step 7 >V5.1 SP4 authorization disk into *.td0 file with "Drive A: is not >ready" erors at starting up.Do you know any other software could copy >this authorization disk so that I don't warry about my authorization >disk crash? > Thanks, >Zhu -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com ARS KC7GR (Formerly WD6EOS) since 12-77 -- kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com "Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati" (Red Green, aka Steve Smith) From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Oct 20 13:12:54 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:32 2005 Subject: Recommendations for archiving audio tapes In-Reply-To: "John A. Dundas III" "Recommendations for archiving audio tapes" (Oct 20, 8:10) References: Message-ID: <10310201912.ZM8050@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Oct 20, 8:10, John A. Dundas III wrote: > I have a number of old DECUS U.S. Symposium audio tapes that I would > like to archive before they completely disintegrate. I have a way to > digitize these and store them in a variety of formats. I'm not sure > what format is best for archive and distribution, though I assume > something like WAV or AIFF for archive and MP3 for distribution. That sounds reasonable, but beware of WAV -- although originally it was effectively a byte-swapped AIFF format, it's been added to in so many ways that a WAV file could contain just about anything. If you use AIFF at 44100Hz you can write the tracks to a CD-R using just about any writer software. MP3 is pretty good for distribution. It's reasonably compact, better supported than just about any other compressed format, and not likely to go away any time soon. Of course, it's lossy so don't use it for archives (I'm sure you weren't planning to). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From dundas at caltech.edu Mon Oct 20 14:29:02 2003 From: dundas at caltech.edu (John A. Dundas III) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:32 2005 Subject: Recommendations for archiving audio tapes In-Reply-To: <10310201912.ZM8050@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <10310201912.ZM8050@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: Thanks to all that responded. Looks like I found something worth saving; maybe others have some of these audio tapes (decaying) in their garages as well. I will attempt to carefully preserve the original contents (lossless, well, analog to digital anyway) as well as create a lossy copy for Internet distribution. A couple more questions... Is anyone else archiving these? Is there a site already dedicated to this? I'll post a note when electronic copies are available. Thanks, John From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Mon Oct 20 14:41:28 2003 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:32 2005 Subject: Tektronix 4209 graphic terminal commands summary Message-ID: I have just received a Tektronix 4209 terminal which works. Manufacture date is 1987. I vaguely remember plot commands for a tektronix system when I worked for AT&T Western Electric in 1980's. These were not the 4014 storage tube stroke vector displays but the first raster displays. Does anybody have a Plot-10 command summary? Is this the correct set? mike m m c f a d d e n a t c m h . e d u From emu at ecubics.com Mon Oct 20 15:29:09 2003 From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:32 2005 Subject: Tektronix 4209 graphic terminal commands summary In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3F944595.6070702@ecubics.com> McFadden, Mike wrote: > I have just received a Tektronix 4209 terminal which works. >Manufacture date is 1987. Some people are just toooo lucky ;-) > I vaguely remember plot commands for a tektronix system >when I worked for AT&T Western Electric in 1980's. These >were not the 4014 storage tube stroke vector >displays but the first raster displays. > > Does anybody have a Plot-10 command summary? I thought, that plot-10 was a library to use tek codes ? cheers From toresbe at ifi.uio.no Mon Oct 20 16:45:19 2003 From: toresbe at ifi.uio.no (Tore S Bekkedal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:32 2005 Subject: Nice Apple /// Message-ID: <1066685707.10460.2.camel@lisp> And I quote horrified: "I now feel the desire to make the room more useful so the computer does not fit the decor any longer." Don't you know that Apples, like black, go with everything?!? :) Sheesh. -Tore From jplist at kiwigeek.com Mon Oct 20 17:19:59 2003 From: jplist at kiwigeek.com (JP Hindin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:32 2005 Subject: How do _you_ move equipment? What "tools" do you use? Message-ID: Greetings; I am faced with picking up a sizeable IBM some hours from where I live in the next few weeks. What I had originally planned to do has fallen through, and now I am left trying to work out how best to lift what has been estimated as 800+lbs of 1978 IBM. I have a decent half-ton pickup truck, its more than plenty for carrying this machine home. The magic trick is - how do I get the heavy sucker into the deck? I was planning on "borrowing" another truck with a lift-gate on it, to lift the IBM up to the pickup deck height, and then waffling it into the pickup. That has fallen through, and actually renting one is, as far as I'm concerned, cost prohibitive ($78 + 29c/mile + $150 deposit). If you were to move this IBM, how would you have done it? Keep in mind while I can cover $100 worth of gas for my pickup - more than that is a pinch. JP From geneb at deltasoft.com Mon Oct 20 17:36:26 2003 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:32 2005 Subject: Emulation moment of insanity... (fwd) Message-ID: This is just.....insane. :) g. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 14:58:18 -0700 From: Jeff Vavasour To: trs80@cs.ubc.ca Subject: Emulation moment of insanity... Well, for those on this list that are interested, I recently had a moment of insanity in the emulation realm. Here's the result: http://www.vavasour.ca/jeff/mice.html - Jeff From aw288 at osfn.org Mon Oct 20 17:40:18 2003 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:32 2005 Subject: How do _you_ move equipment? What "tools" do you use? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > If you were to move this IBM, how would you have done it? > Keep in mind while I can cover $100 worth of gas for my pickup - more than > that is a pinch. Get a tilting flatbed trailer, or one that can be forced to the ground without damage and with the thing unhitched, and get a cumalong or winch. 800 pounds is easy this way. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Oct 20 17:38:45 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:32 2005 Subject: website update Message-ID: <10310202338.ZM8442@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> I know some of you have bookmarked or made links to one or two files I have on my "website". Earlier today I moved some of the PDP11-related files, such as the Q-Bus diagrams and XXDP docs, into a subdirectory, so you might want to update bookmarks/links. http://www.dunnington.u-net.com/public/PDP-11/ -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From vcf at siconic.com Mon Oct 20 18:08:42 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:32 2005 Subject: Recommendations for archiving audio tapes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 20 Oct 2003, John A. Dundas III wrote: > Thanks to all that responded. Looks like I found something worth > saving; maybe others have some of these audio tapes (decaying) in > their garages as well. I will attempt to carefully preserve the > original contents (lossless, well, analog to digital anyway) as well > as create a lossy copy for Internet distribution. A couple more > questions... These are the kind of tapes that I love to collect and compile. If they haven't already been archived by the ACM then folks like us certainly need to do so. I have a lot of old audio and video tapes (and other media) waiting to be archived as soon as I get to that particular point in my overall project. I have a couple hundred videos (in VHS and 3/4" format), hundreds of slides, and a few dozen audio tapes (so far). I also have a fair number of photographs, but I'm definitely lacking in that department (the Computer History Museum has thousands). Notwithstanding copyright issues, I plan to make copies available for research, just as I do with the other stuff in my archive. Don't expect anything anytime soon, however. There's still a lot of work to do. But it is being done. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Mon Oct 20 18:12:57 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:32 2005 Subject: How do _you_ move equipment? What "tools" do you use? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 20 Oct 2003, JP Hindin wrote: > If you were to move this IBM, how would you have done it? Given the limitations you've mentioned, I wouldn't. But, there are alternatives. Perhaps a cherry picker (automobile engine hoist) might work? What's the heaviest load a cherry picker can hoist? Is there a forklift anywhere near where you are picking up the machine? They can at least load it that way, but off-loading it will be an issue. Well, you could build a very sturdy ramp to off-load it, but I wouldn't want to be behind it or anywhere within 50 feet of its path when you push it over the edge. Perhaps you can rent a car towing trailer? Those are very low to the ground generally and you may be able to push it onto the tracks. Renting one may well be much cheaper than a truck with a lift gate. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From kd7bcy at teleport.com Mon Oct 20 18:24:21 2003 From: kd7bcy at teleport.com (John Rollins) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:32 2005 Subject: How do _you_ move equipment? What "tools" do you use? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: LOL... I had an interesting way back when I got my Series/1. Loading into a minivan mind you... When it got to the loading dock there were plenty of old cardboard boxes around(big ones!), so we piled them all up next to the rack and tilted it over... Wham! Once "safely" on its side, moved it into position and shoved into the back. Lots of fun! Probably not the greatest idea, but that thing was rock solid. -JR From foxvideo at wincom.net Mon Oct 20 18:28:07 2003 From: foxvideo at wincom.net (Charles E. Fox) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:32 2005 Subject: Recommendations for archiving audio tapes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20031020192548.00b1b508@smtp.wincom.net> At 07:08 PM 20/10/2003, you wrote: >These are the kind of tapes that I love to collect and compile. If they >haven't already been archived by the ACM then folks like us certainly need >to do so. > >I have a lot of old audio and video tapes (and other media) waiting to be >archived as soon as I get to that particular point in my overall project. >I have a couple hundred videos (in VHS and 3/4" format), hundreds of >slides, and a few dozen audio tapes (so far). I also have a fair number >of photographs, but I'm definitely lacking in that department (the >Computer History Museum has thousands). > >Notwithstanding copyright issues, I plan to make copies available for >research, just as I do with the other stuff in my archive. > >Don't expect anything anytime soon, however. There's still a lot of work >to do. But it is being done. > >-- > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Hi, Sellam: You had better watch those 3/4" tapes, they seem to want to self destruct after about twelve or fifteen years. Regards Charlie Fox Charles E. Fox Video Production 793 Argyle Rd. Windsor Ontario Canada N8Y 3J8 519-254-4991 foxvideo@wincom.net Check out the "Camcorder Kindergarten" at http://chasfoxvideo.com From jplist at kiwigeek.com Mon Oct 20 18:30:01 2003 From: jplist at kiwigeek.com (JP Hindin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:32 2005 Subject: How do _you_ move equipment? What "tools" do you use? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 20 Oct 2003, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Mon, 20 Oct 2003, JP Hindin wrote: > > If you were to move this IBM, how would you have done it? > Is there a forklift anywhere near where you are picking up the machine? > They can at least load it that way, but off-loading it will be an issue. I've already looked into it, and unfortunately not. There is, however, a forklift HERE - so unloading it isn't an issue. It's just working out how to get the sucker loaded all the way down in Arkansas :P > Perhaps you can rent a car towing trailer? Those are very low to the > ground generally and you may be able to push it onto the tracks. Renting > one may well be much cheaper than a truck with a lift gate. Tempted. For reasons I won't go into, I've been told that I cannot use a trailor by the person who actually owns the vehicle - I only drive it. Transmissions and various reasons like that. Asides from whether or not I agree or believe this - I'm just trying to make do with what I have. I believe I'll probably put together a pair of sturdy oak ramps, maybe 12" wide, that hook to the bumper of the truck. Then I'll use a winch to pull the IBM up the incline - although I'm not sure yet what to use under the lower end to stop it grating on the ground once its picked up off its casters... Perhaps a skateboard? :) JP From allain at panix.com Mon Oct 20 18:34:47 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:32 2005 Subject: Tektronix 4209 graphic terminal commands summary References: Message-ID: <040301c39762$c039aba0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Plot-10 was a callable library, correct. Other commands could also be used to talk to this terminal directly, in a different language, simpler. Plot-10 was meant to work with whole ranges of Tek devices. I have good docs on a 4107 (probably very similar) and can fish up info for you from there. At this escape sequence level it was very much like a DEC VT125, (only faster, sharper and more functional) if you've ever been there. John A. From fernande at internet1.net Mon Oct 20 18:42:47 2003 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:32 2005 Subject: How do _you_ move equipment? What "tools" do you use? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3F9472F7.9090009@internet1.net> Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > Perhaps a cherry picker (automobile engine hoist) might work? What's the > heaviest load a cherry picker can hoist? 800lbs would be pushing it, I do believe. Plus, if this IBM is tall it won't be able to lift it high enough. > Perhaps you can rent a car towing trailer? Those are very low to the > ground generally and you may be able to push it onto the tracks. Renting > one may well be much cheaper than a truck with a lift gate. Do you mean a tow dolly? Those don't have decks on them, just a spot for each of 2 wheels. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From allain at panix.com Mon Oct 20 18:43:52 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:32 2005 Subject: Recommendations for archiving audio tapes References: <03a301c39722$519976c0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <043a01c39764$04f38da0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > Some machines have a 48K setting; this is for 'professional' DATs This is an old question of mine. Are there (m)any utilities to copy DAT audio to disk using DDS data drives? John A. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Mon Oct 20 18:10:05 2003 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:32 2005 Subject: Socal finds In-Reply-To: <000801c39426$bbef8310$d766a8c0@wrickben02> References: <3F8DD0F1.10683.15BC8E7@localhost> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20031020154951.02ee3120@pop-server.socal.rr.com> This has been a nice week, with hopes that one day this week will be even better. One of the scrappers let me do some digging that was previously off limits. Two gaylord (pallet boxes) boxes of memory, one gold fingers, one solder, only downside was that had to kind of climb into the pallet rack to get access, and time and light were in short supply. The good news is that I found about 2 dozen "nice" sticks, and the better news is that he seemed agreeable to letting me come back and more seriously dig. Most of what I got were 30 pin 4 mb, but I did find at least 1 16 mb IIfx stick, which makes me real hot to dig some more. Cal Poly Pomona hamfest was relocated to the old parking lot to avoid the HUGE crowds buying pumkins in the student patch. Items I saw, but didn't buy etc. included, Hero Jr. (fully restored claimed the owner who was asking for offers and expects a grand or more), a couple of TI printers for the early calculators, and a Rockwell early desktop calculator thing. My theory is that a wave of old stuff that people have sat on for years is showing up as people assume the days for higher prices are passing. Oh, and one of my friends bought a fairly complete less monitor Next slab. From eric at brouhaha.com Mon Oct 20 18:58:22 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:32 2005 Subject: How do _you_ move equipment? What "tools" do you use? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1247.4.20.168.165.1066694302.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> >> Is there a forklift anywhere near where you are picking up the machine? >> They can at least load it that way, but off-loading it will be an issue. > I've already looked into it, and unfortunately not. The last time I rented a forklift, it was only about $75 for 24 hours, including delivery to my site and pickup. Would have been less if I'd picked it up, though I would have had to rent its trailer. From eric at brouhaha.com Mon Oct 20 18:58:22 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:32 2005 Subject: How do _you_ move equipment? What "tools" do you use? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1247.4.20.168.165.1066694302.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> >> Is there a forklift anywhere near where you are picking up the machine? >> They can at least load it that way, but off-loading it will be an issue. > I've already looked into it, and unfortunately not. The last time I rented a forklift, it was only about $75 for 24 hours, including delivery to my site and pickup. Would have been less if I'd picked it up, though I would have had to rent its trailer. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Oct 20 19:10:59 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:32 2005 Subject: How do _you_ move equipment? What "tools" do you use? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031020201059.007c9c20@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 05:19 PM 10/20/03 -0500, you wrote: > >Greetings; >I am faced with picking up a sizeable IBM some hours from where I live in >the next few weeks. >What I had originally planned to do has fallen through, and now I am left >trying to work out how best to lift what has been estimated as 800+lbs of >1978 IBM. > >I have a decent half-ton pickup truck, its more than plenty for carrying >this machine home. The magic trick is - how do I get the heavy sucker into >the deck? >I was planning on "borrowing" another truck with a lift-gate on it, to >lift the IBM up to the pickup deck height, and then waffling it into the >pickup. That has fallen through, and actually renting one is, as far as >I'm concerned, cost prohibitive ($78 + 29c/mile + $150 deposit). You should be aware that a lot of the lift gates are junk! They're actually worse than that, they're downright dangerous! Many of them have a steep ramp about 2 to 3" high before they reach the top. That makes it very difficult to get heavy objects onto the lift gate. In addition, the tops are sloped away from the truck and when you raise the lift gate the slope increases. That makes things tend to slide completely off the ramp right at the worst time! Just as you're lifting it up and have nowhere to go. Finally, they have a hinge in them that makes it difficult to get heavy loads off and on the ramp. Take a close look at any lift gate that you're considering using, BEFORE you rent the truck. And if you don't have a fork lift or other machinery to load the cargo, think THREE TIMES about using one of them for heavy objects. Last year, I narrowly missing being crushed under a 1800+ lb UPS that I was trying to load on one using those POS! Something you might consider is the use of one of the off-road type fork lifts. A LOT of companies in this area (central Florida) use them to unloading and moving pallets of sod (squares of grass used for landscaping) and they can be rented quite reasonably and the rental companies have trailors for them. I have moved a couple of big heavy computers by renting a low trailer and then using 2 x 10" boards as ramps to load the puter. If it's real heavy and you're short of man power then you can use a come-a-long to pull it into the trailer. Loading is generally pretty easy but unloading is tricky! A lot of times the load will run away from you and it will try to stop and tip over when it gets to the ground. Also it will sometimes try to push the boards out off the trailer. If that happens one side will drop to the ground and the thing will tip over. Take your time and be careful unloading. Use plenty of man power if you can get it. Joe > >If you were to move this IBM, how would you have done it? >Keep in mind while I can cover $100 worth of gas for my pickup - more than >that is a pinch. > >JP > > From ian_primus at yahoo.com Mon Oct 20 19:32:39 2003 From: ian_primus at yahoo.com (Ian Primus) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:32 2005 Subject: How do _you_ move equipment? What "tools" do you use? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <13B3CB1F-035E-11D8-982F-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> On Monday, October 20, 2003, at 07:24 PM, John Rollins wrote: > LOL... I had an interesting way back when I got my Series/1. Loading > into a minivan mind you... When it got to the loading dock there were > plenty of old cardboard boxes around(big ones!), so we piled them all > up next to the rack and tilted it over... Wham! Once "safely" on its > side, moved it into position and shoved into the back. Lots of fun! > Probably not the greatest idea, but that thing was rock solid. > > -JR > > Heh, you should have seen how I got my Prime minicomputer home... I used my dad's Pontiac Bonneville with a Uhaul trailer, and two friends volunteered to help. Getting it into the trailer was fun. We built a ramp with an old pallet and some plywood, and were able to shove the tape drive and the hard drive cabinet up into the trailer. The system unit was fun, since it was heavier, and strapped to a small pallet. We used a pallet jack and jacket it up, then shoved the pallet jack up the ramp. I ended up just taking the pallet jack with me, I only lived a mile away and they said I could borrow it, so then we offloaded in a similar fashion. Getting the computer into the basement was fun too. I have a walk out basement, but there is a pretty good hill going down to the back yard. I had quite a time running backward behind a Prime 5340 on a pallet jack, trying to keep myself from being run over, and trying to slow the computer down. All went fine, getting the smaller drive cabinets into the basement was easy. The system unit, however, was about a half inch larger than the sliding glass door in the basement, and very, very heavy. I ended up having to dismantle it into the four 'slices', and carry them in individually. I got everything in and set up, but at the moment, I don't know enough about the hardware to get it to boot. The Prime is the biggest computer I have ever moved, but I would imagine that others have much larger systems... One of these days, I hope to find a PDP 11 or a VAX, but I have no idea how to go about moving something as large as an old IBM system. The best thing I could suggest is to talk to someone that moves refrigerators. and maybe borrow one of those heavy duty dolly things, I think they are called refrigerator movers. Good luck with it. Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Oct 20 19:37:25 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:32 2005 Subject: How do _you_ move equipment? What "tools" do you use? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20031020172401.R82021@newshell.lmi.net> On Mon, 20 Oct 2003, JP Hindin wrote: > I believe I'll probably put together a pair of sturdy oak ramps, maybe > 12" wide, that hook to the bumper of the truck. Then I'll use a winch to > pull the IBM up the incline - although I'm not sure yet what to use under > the lower end to stop it grating on the ground once its picked up off its > casters... Perhaps a skateboard? :) a furniture dolly (a skateboard consisting of casters and a framework made of 2x4's), sometimes padded with carpet (about $15 at Harbor Freight) They're also a source for tie-downs, ramps, and for "ramp ends" (brackets to put on the end of your own 2x8's http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=4698 Do you have an adequate winch/"come-along"? Is it 800 pounds TOTAL, or is the largest piece 800 pounds? (If 800 is just the total, then the smaller pieces won't be a problem) If this is the one that I think that it might be, the current/previous owner might have some use for an extra portable ramp, and maybe you could work that into the deal? -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Oct 20 19:39:11 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:32 2005 Subject: How do _you_ move equipment? What "tools" do you use? In-Reply-To: <3F9472F7.9090009@internet1.net> References: <3F9472F7.9090009@internet1.net> Message-ID: <20031020173737.U82021@newshell.lmi.net> > > Perhaps you can rent a car towing trailer? Those are very low to the > > ground generally and you may be able to push it onto the tracks. Renting > > one may well be much cheaper than a truck with a lift gate. On Mon, 20 Oct 2003, Chad Fernandez wrote: > Do you mean a tow dolly? Those don't have decks on them, just a spot > for each of 2 wheels. I'm pretty sure that he means a lowslung flatbed trailer, which is how we used transport cars before the dollies became popular. From Innfogra at aol.com Mon Oct 20 20:17:01 2003 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:32 2005 Subject: How do _you_ move equipment? What "tools" do you use? Message-ID: <186.20c956bd.2cc5e30d@aol.com> > > I believe I'll probably put together a pair of sturdy oak ramps, maybe > > 12" wide, that hook to the bumper of the truck. Then I'll use a winch to > > pull the IBM up the incline - although I'm not sure yet what to use under > > the lower end to stop it grating on the ground once its picked up off its > > casters... Perhaps a skateboard? :) > Your oak ramp is a good idea Use a large sheet of aluminum or steel about 3 foot by 3 foot. Larger is better and stainless steel is better than aluminum. The cabinet will actually skid on the metal until the casters take over going up the ramp. The plate might try to kick out so be careful, particularly if it is too small. If you are going to make a ramp bevel the ends of the boards or put some wedges at the end so the metal doesn't deform. You want a smooth skid surface. Be especially careful of your center of gravity on the incline. Good luck, Paxton Astoria, OR From jrasite at eoni.com Mon Oct 20 20:31:45 2003 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim Arnott) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:32 2005 Subject: Popular Science Message-ID: <3F948C81.6040508@eoni.com> Tony, Sellem, Nice write up. (Nov 2003 Popular Science.) Unfortunately not on their website. I'll scan and OCR if anyone's interested. Jim From dwight.elvey at amd.com Mon Oct 20 21:19:35 2003 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:32 2005 Subject: Looking for 4Kx1 drams Message-ID: <200310210219.TAA20346@clulw009.amd.com> Hi Anyone have a good source for 4Kx1 drams? I need three for my poly8813. I also need 2111's but I've found a place that has these. Dwight From ohh at drizzle.com Mon Oct 20 21:52:01 2003 From: ohh at drizzle.com (O. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:32 2005 Subject: How do _you_ move equipment? What "tools" do you use? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: John Rollins wrote thus: > LOL... I had an interesting way back when I got my Series/1. Loading > into a minivan mind you... When it got to the loading dock there were > plenty of old cardboard boxes around(big ones!), so we piled them all > up next to the rack and tilted it over... Wham! Once "safely" on its > side, moved it into position and shoved into the back. Lots of fun! > Probably not the greatest idea, but that thing was rock solid. When I got my 8/I, a friend and I moved it by tipping it onto its side and sliding it into the back of his car... ...a Ford Pinto hatchback. :) We then somehow crammed an ASR-33 Teletype in beside it, fit the paper tape trays and documentation notebooks into every nook and gap left in the car, and then tried to climb in. We succeeded. My elbows were on the dashboard for the entire trip, and I was acutely aware of the fact that any sudden braking would probably result in a six-foot DEC cabinet sliding forward and packing me neatly into the glove compartment. The amazing thing is that we were, somehow, also able to close the hatchback. :) ...We were young and stupid then. The next time I get a machine of that size I'm hiring a truck and a crew and a furniture dolly and a big ramp, thank you very much... or, at the very least, I won't be using a Ford Pinto again. :) :) -O.- From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Mon Oct 20 22:10:16 2003 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:32 2005 Subject: How do _you_ move equipment? What "tools" do you use? Message-ID: <10e.278e8d31.2cc5fd98@aol.com> In a message dated 10/20/2003 7:42:21 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jplist@kiwigeek.com writes: > Perhaps you can rent a car towing trailer? Those are very low to the > ground generally and you may be able to push it onto the tracks. Renting > one may well be much cheaper than a truck with a lift gate. Tempted. For reasons I won't go into, I've been told that I cannot use a trailor by the person who actually owns the vehicle - I only drive it. Transmissions and various reasons like that. Asides from whether or not I agree or believe this - I'm just trying to make do with what I have. I believe I'll probably put together a pair of sturdy oak ramps, maybe 12" wide, that hook to the bumper of the truck. Then I'll use a winch to pull the IBM up the incline - although I'm not sure yet what to use under the lower end to stop it grating on the ground once its picked up off its casters... Perhaps a skateboard? :) I've moved some heavy things before including an extremely heavy player piano and might be able to off some suggestions. Being able to use a tilt bed trailer is a big help. You can find some low cost tiltbed trailer kits pretty cheaply if you know the capacity of what you're carrying is less or equal to the trailer's. Carpeted furniture dollies are cheap and can take a lot of weight and abuse. get a few of those. As someone said, a come-along is handy for loading or moving up a ramp. There's a thing called a Johnson bar that works great for moving heavy things. it's basically a 6 foot long wooden pry bar with a metal angled end and wheels on one end, so you can lever up something extremely heavy and then move it around because of the wheels. Any rental place should have those. Pallet jacks are nice too. too bad they don't go up higher though. I've seen some companies sell a small motorized lift to raise something like a motorcycle for service. can something like that be rented? If you plan to unload from a pickup's bed, see if there's a ditch or a low spot you can back into to make it lower. barring that, it might be helpful to use whatever you can to make a platform at a height halfway between the truck and the ground so you can manouver onto that first. trying to lower something heavy 2 feet at once is not easy to do. From vcf at siconic.com Mon Oct 20 23:20:09 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:32 2005 Subject: Recommendations for archiving audio tapes In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20031020192548.00b1b508@smtp.wincom.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 20 Oct 2003, Charles E. Fox wrote: > You had better watch those 3/4" tapes, they seem to want to > self destruct after about twelve or fifteen years. Thanks for the tip. I got them about a year ago and definitely need to get them digitized. They are from the late 1970s, but I'm guessing they're still in operable order (California's climate is very forgiving on media). -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Mon Oct 20 23:21:44 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:32 2005 Subject: How do _you_ move equipment? What "tools" do you use? In-Reply-To: <3F9472F7.9090009@internet1.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 20 Oct 2003, Chad Fernandez wrote: > > Perhaps you can rent a car towing trailer? Those are very low to the > > ground generally and you may be able to push it onto the tracks. Renting > > one may well be much cheaper than a truck with a lift gate. > > Do you mean a tow dolly? Those don't have decks on them, just a spot > for each of 2 wheels. I would be referring to a full-length vehicle trailer. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Mon Oct 20 23:26:52 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:32 2005 Subject: How do _you_ move equipment? What "tools" do you use? In-Reply-To: <13B3CB1F-035E-11D8-982F-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 20 Oct 2003, Ian Primus wrote: > the back yard. I had quite a time running backward behind a Prime 5340 > on a pallet jack, trying to keep myself from being run over, and trying > to slow the computer down. All went fine, getting the smaller drive !!! You're lucky you weren't killed! Never, ever, ever, ever, EVER, walk in front of a heavy load like that downhill. I don't care how strong and/or confident you are. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Mon Oct 20 23:28:54 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:32 2005 Subject: Popular Science In-Reply-To: <3F948C81.6040508@eoni.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 20 Oct 2003, Jim Arnott wrote: > Tony, Sellem, > > Nice write up. (Nov 2003 Popular Science.) Unfortunately not on their > website. I'll scan and OCR if anyone's interested. I wasn't even aware of this article until someone pointed it out to me today. An OCR would be nice until I can get to the book store to pick up a copy :) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Oct 20 23:53:11 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:32 2005 Subject: How do _you_ move equipment? What "tools" do you use? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20031020215148.N86768@newshell.lmi.net> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2566653432 that is one hell of a hand truck! From rdd at rddavis.org Tue Oct 21 00:07:13 2003 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:32 2005 Subject: Recommendations for archiving audio tapes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20031021050045.GA477@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Philip Pemberton, from writings of Mon, Oct 20, 2003 at 04:37:05PM +0100: > Get yourself a decent tape recorder - not one of those elcheapo things, a > proper full-size tape deck. I've been using a JVC TD-X335 to archive various > old tapes. Make sure the heads are nice and clean, though. Don't waste time Or, if he wants to preserve them via the analog route, ensuring that they stand a better chance of being readable at some point in the future after various forms of digital media have become obsolete: :-) First, get a good used analog half-inch, or one-inch, two track (this means reel to reel, and yes, only two tracks) mastering tape deck (make sure that the heads are good before proceeding/purchasing), then: 2. clean the heads with 99% isopropyl alcohol using lint-free wipes 3. demagnetize the heads (know what you're doing before doing this, or you could end up permanently magnetizing the heads... an expensive mistake ...and make sure that the tape deck is turned off during the demagnetization process 4. buy an MRL alignment tape and do what needs to be done with that, an oscilloscope, signal generator, etc. 5. do the recording at 30 ips if possible... if you must do it at 15 ips or less, you might want to use DBX-I (noise reduction). but also make a second copy without DBX for archival purposes. 6. ascertain that the source tapes don't have a problem with sticking binder... if they do, you'll need to pop them into a constant 150 degree oven for a while (not a toaster oven... temp. varies too much) 7. clean and demagnetize the heads on a good 3-head cassette deck 8. keep an eye on the VU meters... remember, there's a difference in reading analog and digital VU meters etc... and... have fun! :-) -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From asholz at topinform.com Tue Oct 21 01:35:09 2003 From: asholz at topinform.com (Andreas Holz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:33 2005 Subject: Xerox Dandilion In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3F94D39D.8090002@topinform.com> Hello all, recently I got two Xerox Dandilions and one monitor (including keyboard and mouse) , alltogether somehow in parts. I'm going to try assemble at least one machine. I'm interested in which kind of software is available for these machines (e.g. Interlisp, Smalltalk ...) somewhere. Andreas From geoffr at zipcon.net Tue Oct 21 03:57:17 2003 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:33 2005 Subject: Tandy model IV floppy controller In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20031020154951.02ee3120@pop-server.socal.rr.com > References: <3F8DD0F1.10683.15BC8E7@localhost> <5.1.0.14.0.20031020154951.02ee3120@pop-server.socal.rr.com> Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.2.20031021015601.04b30a80@mail.zipcon.net> Ok, anyone out there have any docs on a Progressive computer products FDC IIIB ? seems that's what is in my tandy model IV as it's floppy controller and I'm interested in learning hte capabilities of this card :) From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Oct 21 07:09:53 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:33 2005 Subject: Looking for 4Kx1 drams In-Reply-To: <200310210219.TAA20346@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031021080953.007e4100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Dwight, You didn't say what kind of DRAMs you need. I have some TMS 4060s. I think they're a replacement for the Intel 2107s. I also have some NEC uPD4140s. These are 4k x 1 DRAMs (+-5V,12V, TriState). Also some 4104 RAMs. I haven't looked them up but they sound like they might be 4k. Joe At 07:19 PM 10/20/03 -0700, you wrote: >Hi > Anyone have a good source for 4Kx1 drams? > I need three for my poly8813. I also need 2111's >but I've found a place that has these. >Dwight > > > From vance at neurotica.com Tue Oct 21 08:48:18 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:33 2005 Subject: Recommendations for archiving audio tapes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 20 Oct 2003, John Lawson wrote: > Some machines have a 48K setting; this is for 'professional' DATs and > things that need to sync to SMPTE/Video/etc without all the gearbox > whickey - as I'm sure you're (painfully...?) aware of. ;} What about HDCD @ 44.1K x 20-bit? Peace... Sridhar From jpl15 at panix.com Tue Oct 21 08:54:15 2003 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:33 2005 Subject: Recommendations for archiving audio tapes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, 21 Oct 2003 vance@neurotica.com wrote: > On Mon, 20 Oct 2003, John Lawson wrote: > > > Some machines have a 48K setting; this is for 'professional' DATs and > > things that need to sync to SMPTE/Video/etc without all the gearbox > > whickey - as I'm sure you're (painfully...?) aware of. ;} > > What about HDCD @ 44.1K x 20-bit? > Smarty-pants! Chs J From jrasite at eoni.com Tue Oct 21 09:06:26 2003 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim Arnott) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:33 2005 Subject: Popular Science In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3F953D61.5040203@eoni.com> I'll scan this evening. Jim Vintage Computer Festival wrote: >On Mon, 20 Oct 2003, Jim Arnott wrote: > > > >>Tony, Sellem, >> >>Nice write up. (Nov 2003 Popular Science.) Unfortunately not on their >>website. I'll scan and OCR if anyone's interested. >> >> > >I wasn't even aware of this article until someone pointed it out to me >today. An OCR would be nice until I can get to the book store to pick up >a copy :) > > > From fernande at internet1.net Tue Oct 21 09:15:12 2003 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:33 2005 Subject: How do _you_ move equipment? What "tools" do you use? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3F953F70.5070901@internet1.net> Oh, I guess the car trailers that I have seen aren't as low as I was thinking you meant. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Vintage Computer Festival wrote: >>Do you mean a tow dolly? Those don't have decks on them, just a spot >>for each of 2 wheels. > > > I would be referring to a full-length vehicle trailer. > From wrljet at yahoo.com Tue Oct 21 09:31:44 2003 From: wrljet at yahoo.com (Bill Lewis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:33 2005 Subject: How do _you_ move equipment? What "tools" do you use? In-Reply-To: <200310211224.h9LCNKgI016753@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20031021143144.33066.qmail@web13609.mail.yahoo.com> This is how I do it... http://www.wrljet.com/bridgeport/ Bill __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com From allain at panix.com Tue Oct 21 10:06:33 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:33 2005 Subject: How do _you_ move equipment? What "tools" do you use? References: <3.0.6.32.20031020201059.007c9c20@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <005201c397e4$ea7b6980$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > You should be aware that a lot of the lift gates are > junk! They're actually worse than that, they're downright > dangerous! We moved a VAX6000 using one of those. Once you get used to the nasty slope, you can cope. We used a long high-tension strap and continuously start-stopped the gate and then re-tightened the strap. Added a few minutes to the process but made it safe. Do take good measurements of a lift-gate before commiting. John A. From vcf at siconic.com Tue Oct 21 10:41:54 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:33 2005 Subject: How do _you_ move equipment? What "tools" do you use? In-Reply-To: <20031021143144.33066.qmail@web13609.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 21 Oct 2003, Bill Lewis wrote: > This is how I do it... > > http://www.wrljet.com/bridgeport/ Nice job, but that is a lot of lumber and work :/ -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vance at neurotica.com Tue Oct 21 10:56:32 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:33 2005 Subject: How do _you_ move equipment? What "tools" do you use? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 20 Oct 2003, JP Hindin wrote: > I am faced with picking up a sizeable IBM some hours from where I live > in the next few weeks. What I had originally planned to do has fallen > through, and now I am left trying to work out how best to lift what has > been estimated as 800+lbs of 1978 IBM. Truck with liftgate is your friend. > I have a decent half-ton pickup truck, its more than plenty for carrying > this machine home. The magic trick is - how do I get the heavy sucker > into the deck? There are two methods: 1. Get a Forklift. Any forklift, even a tiny one will do. 2. Use a metal ramp and get six or seven large friends. > I was planning on "borrowing" another truck with a lift-gate on it, to > lift the IBM up to the pickup deck height, and then waffling it into the > pickup. That has fallen through, and actually renting one is, as far as > I'm concerned, cost prohibitive ($78 + 29c/mile + $150 deposit). > > If you were to move this IBM, how would you have done it? Keep in mind > while I can cover $100 worth of gas for my pickup - more than that is a > pinch. With your limitations, find a few strong friends and use a metal moving ramp. Peace... Sridhar From vance at neurotica.com Tue Oct 21 11:12:24 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:33 2005 Subject: How do _you_ move equipment? What "tools" do you use? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 20 Oct 2003, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > the back yard. I had quite a time running backward behind a Prime 5340 > > on a pallet jack, trying to keep myself from being run over, and > > trying to slow the computer down. All went fine, getting the smaller > > drive > > !!! > > You're lucky you weren't killed! Never, ever, ever, ever, EVER, walk in > front of a heavy load like that downhill. I don't care how strong > and/or confident you are. I've done what he described, but the pallet jack I was using had a brake that activated when you release the handle. I wouldn't have done it without that brake. If you have a large enough number of people on a load, you can survive quite a lot. I once had a VAX 6000 fall on me from a little more than two feet off the ground. Because there were enough people to move it before it crushed me (and they were all paying attention), I got off with just sore joints and muscles. Peace... Sridhar From vance at neurotica.com Tue Oct 21 11:13:55 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:33 2005 Subject: How do _you_ move equipment? What "tools" do you use? In-Reply-To: <20031020215148.N86768@newshell.lmi.net> Message-ID: I would *love* to have one of these. Too bad it's so expensive. Peace... Sridhar On Mon, 20 Oct 2003, Fred Cisin wrote: > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2566653432 > > that is one hell of a hand truck! > > > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Oct 21 11:20:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:33 2005 Subject: How do _you_ move equipment? What "tools" do you use? In-Reply-To: <20031021143144.33066.qmail@web13609.mail.yahoo.com> References: <200310211224.h9LCNKgI016753@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031021122000.007eb100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> This reminds me. About 15 years ago I bought a lathe with everything that I could want, 12" x 18" bed, 1 7/8" bore trough the spindle, english and metric feed, etc. This thing was MASSIVE! Everyting was made of cast iron; the bed, the pedestal, even the chip tray on it was made from cast iron. I don't know the exact weight but we guesstimated 3000 pounds! It bent a 1500 pound engine hoist like a pretzel. When I got it home I called a nearby place that had a wrecker that could pick up the tractor units from semi tractor trailers. It had a hydraulic powered long T-shaped boom the could be extended a long way and was rated to pick up 15,000 pounds or something like that. We brought the lathe in on a flat bed cad trailer and parked it in the road in front of the house. We then put a sling around the lathe and hooked it to the boom. They picked it up like it was nothing! They then backed it around the house and got it close to the building where I wanted it, then extended the boom and set the lathe right at the end of the building. (How I actually got it IN the building is another story!) The whole operation only took about five minutes and they only charged about $20. (I did give the driver a generous tip!) It was WELL worth it! Joe At 07:31 AM 10/21/03 -0700, you wrote: >This is how I do it... > >http://www.wrljet.com/bridgeport/ > >Bill > > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search >http://shopping.yahoo.com > From bpope at wordstock.com Tue Oct 21 12:43:46 2003 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:33 2005 Subject: How do _you_ move equipment? What "tools" do you use? In-Reply-To: from "vance@neurotica.com" at Oct 21, 03 12:12:24 pm Message-ID: <200310211743.NAA00664@wordstock.com> And thusly vance@neurotica.com spake: > > If you have a large enough number of people on a load, you can survive > quite a lot. I once had a VAX 6000 fall on me from a little more than two > feet off the ground. Because there were enough people to move it before > it crushed me (and they were all paying attention), I got off with just > sore joints and muscles. hmmmm... The Attack of the VAX? ;-) Cheers, Bryan From wrljet at yahoo.com Tue Oct 21 13:02:27 2003 From: wrljet at yahoo.com (Bill Lewis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:33 2005 Subject: How do _you_ move equipment? What "tools" do you use? In-Reply-To: <200310211719.h9LHJhgI017714@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20031021180227.24562.qmail@web13606.mail.yahoo.com> Cheapest machinery mover in the area wanted $800 to move the machine from the seller's location to my driveway. > They then backed it around the house and got it close to the building where > I wanted it, then extended the boom and set the lathe right at the end of > the building. (How I actually got it IN the building is another story!) The > whole operation only took about five minutes and they only charged about > $20. (I did give the driver a generous tip!) It was WELL worth it! > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue Oct 21 14:11:04 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:33 2005 Subject: How do _you_ move equipment? What "tools" do you use? References: <20031021180227.24562.qmail@web13606.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <01a301c39807$12da5f40$033310ac@kwcorp.com> For moving racks, I just use a regular van, with a few extra steps. I have found that I can easily move one or two 19" six foot racks by myself with ease. It just so happens most of the racks I move are on casters. And I keep everything in my basement, which has double walk out doors onto a concrete patio which is level with the back yard. The yard is fenced, but there is a large double gate in back, which opens to a large common area between the two rows of houses that goes up to the major street. So when I pick up a rack with the van, I wheel it to the back of the van, back of the rack facing the van. On the bed of the van is a huge cut piece of plywood fitted to the contours of the van floor outline. The metal rack will slide MUCH easier on plywood than metal. I tilt the rack back gently until the back side of the rack is leaned up against the edge of the van floor. Then go around front of the rack and tilt it backwards further. Then just push from the bottom of the rack in, sliding easy on the plywood. Because of the way the rack is "tilted in" against the edge, I have found I can easily move VERY heavy racks, much heavier than I normally would be able to, because the edge of the van bed acts like a fulcrum point. You're actually never lifting it, just tilting slowly. This way the rack is laying on its back on the van floor, and rackmount components won't slide out at all. Depending on the configuration of the rack and it's doors, sometimes I may wrap once around the rack with tape or a tie down to keep the doors closed if that's a problem. The only issue I've run into doing it this way is if power cables, etc. are on the back door - have to have a smooth surface to slide on. Sometimes I will also put a big rug or shipping blanket on the edge so that when the rack tilts back it is on a blanket. I will always do this if the rack is taped or tied around, because the tiedowns will make it slide much less easily. The blanket against the plywood slides easily. Then I drive the van through the common area, back up onto the cement patio just in front of the walkout doors. Pull on the bottom of the rack until it slides out enough that the weight makes it start tilting down and let it down easy. Then it's an easy matter of tilting it up and just wheeling it into the basement. Once you do this a few times, you get a good feel for where the weight distribution in the rack is, the center of gravity, and if the edge of the van floor is just the right height and you make good use of these things to help you, it becomes very easy. I've moved two racks at a time, some weighing almost 1000 pounds... by myself with no real straining. Just make the weight work for you on the tilting. Now what I REALLY want - is one of those lift genies that is like a hand truck but with a large flat platform that you pump up and down. Not to move racks, but to lift disc drives and tape drives up from 5 inches to 5 feet, so that they can be easily rackmounted. Haven't found one cheap yet though. Jay West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From jbmcb at hotmail.com Tue Oct 21 14:43:06 2003 From: jbmcb at hotmail.com (Jason McBrien) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:33 2005 Subject: How do _you_ move equipment? What "tools" do you use? References: <20031021180227.24562.qmail@web13606.mail.yahoo.com> <01a301c39807$12da5f40$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: I've moved a full height Comtal Vision/One 19" rack in the back of a standard Plymouth Voyager minivan. Just barely fit, with the front seat moved up a bit. I even managed to manhandle it into my basement by myself, though it *was* empty and had the side and front panels removed. I'll soon see if an Aztec has as much room... As for disk/tape drives, have you looked into using an engine hoist? It may be much cheaper than a portable hydraulic lift, and more maneuverable to boot. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jay West" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2003 3:11 PM Subject: Re: How do _you_ move equipment? What "tools" do you use? > For moving racks, I just use a regular van, with a few extra steps. I have > found that I can easily move one or two 19" six foot racks by myself with > ease. > > It just so happens most of the racks I move are on casters. And I keep > everything in my basement, which has double walk out doors onto a concrete > patio which is level with the back yard. The yard is fenced, but there is a > large double gate in back, which opens to a large common area between the > two rows of houses that goes up to the major street. > > So when I pick up a rack with the van, I wheel it to the back of the van, > back of the rack facing the van. On the bed of the van is a huge cut piece > of plywood fitted to the contours of the van floor outline. The metal rack > will slide MUCH easier on plywood than metal. I tilt the rack back gently > until the back side of the rack is leaned up against the edge of the van > floor. Then go around front of the rack and tilt it backwards further. Then > just push from the bottom of the rack in, sliding easy on the plywood. > Because of the way the rack is "tilted in" against the edge, I have found I > can easily move VERY heavy racks, much heavier than I normally would be able > to, because the edge of the van bed acts like a fulcrum point. You're > actually never lifting it, just tilting slowly. This way the rack is laying > on its back on the van floor, and rackmount components won't slide out at > all. > > Depending on the configuration of the rack and it's doors, sometimes I may > wrap once around the rack with tape or a tie down to keep the doors closed > if that's a problem. The only issue I've run into doing it this way is if > power cables, etc. are on the back door - have to have a smooth surface to > slide on. Sometimes I will also put a big rug or shipping blanket on the > edge so that when the rack tilts back it is on a blanket. I will always do > this if the rack is taped or tied around, because the tiedowns will make it > slide much less easily. The blanket against the plywood slides easily. > > Then I drive the van through the common area, back up onto the cement patio > just in front of the walkout doors. Pull on the bottom of the rack until it > slides out enough that the weight makes it start tilting down and let it > down easy. Then it's an easy matter of tilting it up and just wheeling it > into the basement. > > Once you do this a few times, you get a good feel for where the weight > distribution in the rack is, the center of gravity, and if the edge of the > van floor is just the right height and you make good use of these things to > help you, it becomes very easy. I've moved two racks at a time, some > weighing almost 1000 pounds... by myself with no real straining. Just make > the weight work for you on the tilting. > > Now what I REALLY want - is one of those lift genies that is like a hand > truck but with a large flat platform that you pump up and down. Not to move > racks, but to lift disc drives and tape drives up from 5 inches to 5 feet, > so that they can be easily rackmounted. Haven't found one cheap yet though. > > Jay West > > --- > [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Oct 21 14:49:25 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:33 2005 Subjec