From wmsmith at earthlink.net Wed Oct 1 02:19:24 2003 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:12 2005 Subject: Socal Swapmeets In-Reply-To: <3F79B478.EA0D9AD5@msm.umr.edu> Message-ID: <001801c387ec$5a9c9a30$7e39cd18@WaynePC> > > > So what did I see, good stuff first, ACP had a pair > > > of fresh from the shed > > > Imsai something 40 boxes with like 9 in CRTS on the > > > front, and dual 8" > > > floppy box and a Selectric. > > > > > which the owner wanted $1000 for most of the day, > then offered them for $500. > > Anyone buy these? > > Jim > And here I'd thought I'd missed out on something. From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Wed Oct 1 03:34:03 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:13 2005 Subject: More Stuff available In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3F7AAD9B.24659.652B3E5C@localhost> > > - an Apple II Technical Manual > > an unsoldered, virgin AppleII clone board, once sold by > > Eijlander Electronice in Ede, The Netherlands. I never > > got around to assembling it, so its still virgin. > Kiddies... read that AGAIN. The *board* is virgin. I am *not* > offering *a* virgin. Duh! :) Just so yall know... > Fred (who spent WAY too much time in his dirty basement today) Hey, I'd take both ... even from the basement :) Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 5.0 am 01./02. Mai 2004 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From waltje at pdp11.nl Wed Oct 1 05:35:32 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:13 2005 Subject: Digital Group ? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Sellam wrote: > Nothing other than it was one of the very earliest of the homebrew kit > computer companies, and they made fairly wacky stuff, like the Phideck and > multiple processor systems. Yep, so I have learned since posting that. I got my stuff from an uncle, in late 1983 or so. He had a *very* ugly and badly assembled kit (got it from a friend, I believe) and after fiddling with it for a while, I decided I much more liked the AppleII (at school) and the VIC-20 (at home) :) > It's too bad you tossed your hardware :( Yeah... when I moved, we suddenly bumped into that stuff, and since the container was about full, we decided to not move (read: toss) it. We all make our stupid mistakes at some point.. my other mistake was to let go of my 11/10 (school dumped it *for* me, grrr) and my 11/40's and 11/34's. grrgrr. I'd kill for a working 11/10 *sniff* --f -- Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist Visit the VAXlab Project at http://www.pdp11.nl/VAXlab/ Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Sunnyvale, CA, USA From waltje at pdp11.nl Wed Oct 1 05:38:17 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:13 2005 Subject: [taken] Re: AVAIL: stuff In-Reply-To: Message-ID: All, The MSX stuff has been claimed. Same for the DigGroup docs, and the Apple stuff. Cheers, Fred -- Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist Visit the VAXlab Project at http://www.pdp11.nl/VAXlab/ Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Sunnyvale, CA, USA From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Wed Oct 1 08:47:49 2003 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:13 2005 Subject: Unwaged Message-ID: As Tony so interestingly put it, I have become "unwaged." The company I worked for -- J.D. Edwards -- was aquired by PeopleSoft. Part of the merger's "synergy" is a staff reduction :( . Anyway, I have a few odds and ends (OK, junk) at the office that I do not want to move. Free for postage from Chicago. Do not reply to the list, as it comes to my work email (soon to go away), but rather to r_a_feldman@hotmail.com. 1. Toshiba T3100e/40. Power light comes on, but goes no farther. At least the screen is not cracked. 2. Kenitec laptop (XT or AT??), probably non-functional. 3. HP Portable Vectra CS Model 20. Unknown condition (and heavy). 4. Apple IIGS (case, motherboard, Power supply). 5. Epson "Mars board" (an 80C88 motherboard) w/o CPU. Unknown condition. 6. Adaptec Microchannel card, AHA-1640. 7. Set of AT&T 6300 Plus (80386) manuals. Has diagnostic disks, IIRC, but not MS-DOS disks). 8. Borland C++ V3.1 manual set. 9. Borland C++ V4.5, unopened package of 28 floppy disks (no docs). Bob From vcf at siconic.com Wed Oct 1 10:06:12 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:14 2005 Subject: Digital Group ? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 1 Oct 2003, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > I'd kill for a working 11/10 *sniff* I have someone in mind...let's talk ;) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From kth at srv.net Wed Oct 1 11:16:13 2003 From: kth at srv.net (Kevin Handy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:14 2005 Subject: PDP 11/73 SLU In-Reply-To: <200310010220.h912Kq9E019657@onyx.spiritone.com> References: <200310010220.h912Kq9E019657@onyx.spiritone.com> Message-ID: <3F7AFDCD.4050101@srv.net> Zane H. Healy wrote: >>I really have no need for all the custom stuff and would just as soon >>remove it as use it. I do have a spare DHV11 here that I could put in >>the box, but I do not know if the DHV11 can be used as a standard serial >>console. >> >> > >I think what you really need is a DLV11J. I used one for several years as >my console, and a WQESD/04 as my bootroms. > > > I think that the normal console for an 11/73 is built into the CPU card. Should have a (berg?) connector (or is it two) on the edge of the CPU card where the console port plugs in. I'm not sure if the bootstrap will even look for another console port. If they have this strange board as their console, they may be using different boot roms, you you might have to swap them too. The CPU card should be almost identical to an 11/83 system. Main difference is the speed of the clock, iirc. From dundas at caltech.edu Wed Oct 1 10:38:01 2003 From: dundas at caltech.edu (John A. Dundas III) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:14 2005 Subject: PDP 11/73 SLU In-Reply-To: <1064967860.3654.8.camel@unix> Message-ID: >I really have no need for all the custom stuff and would just as soon >remove it as use it. I do have a spare DHV11 here that I could put in >the box, but I do not know if the DHV11 can be used as a standard serial >console. Nope, the DHV cannot be used as a console interface. If you have a M8192 (same setup I have) then your choices are roughly: DLV11 (I believe either -E or -F will work; I am currently using M8028), DLV11-J (M8043, a 4 port interface that uses special connectors; I've used this also), and there may be a very few others. You need something that responds to the standard console CSR/vector. Don't throw the DHV out as that will still be useful for other things, just not helpful as a console. John --------------------------------------------------------- John A. Dundas III Director, Information Technology Services Infrastructure, Caltech Mail Code: 014-81, Pasadena, CA 91125-8100 Phone: 626.395.3392 FAX: 626.449.6973 From wonko at 4amlunch.net Wed Oct 1 10:43:28 2003 From: wonko at 4amlunch.net (Brian Hechinger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:14 2005 Subject: PDP 11/73 SLU In-Reply-To: <3F7AFDCD.4050101@srv.net>; from kth@srv.net on Wed, Oct 01, 2003 at 10:16:13AM -0600 References: <200310010220.h912Kq9E019657@onyx.spiritone.com> <3F7AFDCD.4050101@srv.net> Message-ID: <20031001114328.M18098@zill.net> On Wed, Oct 01, 2003 at 10:16:13AM -0600, Kevin Handy wrote: > > The CPU card should be almost identical to an 11/83 system. > Main difference is the speed of the clock, iirc. uhm, i thought a /73 was a dual width card and didn't have any serial or anything on it. am i confused? -brian -- "It's like a Koala bear crapped a rainbow in my brain." -- Captain Murphy - Sealab 2021 - From esharpe at uswest.net Wed Oct 1 12:27:39 2003 From: esharpe at uswest.net (Ed Sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:14 2005 Subject: Hayes S100 modem (80-103A) commands References: <000001c387bb$6c90aa00$1f6fa8c0@eths.k12.il.us> Message-ID: <006c01c38841$50937a40$4291a8c0@aoldsl.net> Thanks Jack! Thanks! Ed Sharpe Archivist for SMECC See the Southwest Museum of Engineering, Communications and Computation online at: http://www.smecc.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jack Rubin" To: "Classic Computer List" Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2003 6:29 PM Subject: Hayes S100 modem (80-103A) commands > Sorry - I wasn't paying too much attention to this thread, but I have > the manual for the Hayes S100 modem (80-103A) which includes a short > modem control program written in 1977 by Dale Heatherington (the > co-founder of DC Hayes; guess who was the marketing guy and who was the > engineer!). Control was by bit-setting a couple of control bytes to > handle bit (baud) rate (high/low - typically 300/110 bps, but low rate > could also be set to 75 or 134.5 bps). Other bits set transmit enable > (on/off), mode select (answer/originate), break, self-test, ring > indicator, and off hook. > > The manual includes a chapter on "Applications". Section 5.5 > Telecommuting is reproduced here: "The energy situation being what it > is, more and more people are seriously considering alternatives to > commuting. If your job consists mostly of slaving over a hot computer > terminal, the 80-103A may offer an economical way for your job to come > to you instead of the other way around. Of course you would want to make > an occasional trip to the office for meetings, but think how much pain > and energy you could save. You might even be able to move to that > beautiful valley 'way up there in the mountains..." > > Of course the hot setup was the PMMI modem which could be overclocked to > 450 baud, but Don Brown died in the late '70s (?) and the company > disappeared. > > But what the world was really waiting for was a good 1200 baud modem... > > Jack Rubin > USRobotics 1984-95 > > > From gehrich at tampabay.rr.com Wed Oct 1 11:52:16 2003 From: gehrich at tampabay.rr.com (Gene Ehrich) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:14 2005 Subject: Lotus 1-2-3 v. 3.1 (DOS) copy protection ??? Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20031001124359.00bd0b18@popmail.voicenet.com> Does anybody know or remember Are 5-1/4" original diskettes for Lotus 1-2-3 v. 3.1 (DOS) copy protected in such a way as to prevent the diskettes from being copied to produce usable 3.5" diskettes or a CD? I remember that the earliest versions of Lotus 1-2-3 required the diskette in the floppy drive as a "key" for the program to start-up. I'm not sure what measures were taken for version 3.1. From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Oct 1 12:04:09 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:14 2005 Subject: PDP 11/73 SLU In-Reply-To: <3F7AFDCD.4050101@srv.net> References: <200310010220.h912Kq9E019657@onyx.spiritone.com> <3F7AFDCD.4050101@srv.net> Message-ID: >I think that the normal console for an 11/73 is built into the >CPU card. Should have a (berg?) connector (or is it two) on the >edge of the CPU card where the console port plugs in. >I'm not sure if the bootstrap will even look for another console >port. If you have a quad-height card this is true, and the ports on the board are DLV11 compatible. It also has a bootstrap. If you have have a dual-height, you don't have a console port or a bootstrap. Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From jwest at classiccmp.org Wed Oct 1 12:32:05 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:14 2005 Subject: TI 990 minicomputer Message-ID: <003201c38841$ee950060$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Just obtained a complete TI 990/10A system including several period TI terminals, TI 810 printer, cpu, CDC 94xx drive, and some media. Most importantly, a virgin OS install pack and complete manuals/docs. Not sure if it was DNOS or DX10 though. Anyone in need of copies of anything? >From what I understand, one could get an optional programmers front panel for the TI990/10A, I would love to get one of those if anyone has one spare. Jay West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Oct 1 12:58:20 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:14 2005 Subject: Lotus 1-2-3 v. 3.1 (DOS) copy protection ??? In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20031001124359.00bd0b18@popmail.voicenet.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031001135820.007c84e0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> No it's not copy protected. V 3.1 was after Lotus lost their bid on a LARGE US Government contract due to copy protection and they finally got smart and removed the protection. I have a complete package of V 3.1 that I've never installed. I looked through the docs and they say to backup the disk using "Copy a:*.*" and the tutorial doesn't tell you to insert a floppy disk when starting 123 so it doesn't use a key disk either. I have full sets of both 5 1/4 and 3 1/2 disks if you have any problems making a copy. FWIW I'm pretty sure that version 1.xx were not protected. V 2.x were protected and all versions after that were not protected. Joe At 12:52 PM 10/1/03 -0400, you wrote: >Does anybody know or remember > >Are 5-1/4" original diskettes for Lotus 1-2-3 v. 3.1 (DOS) copy protected >in such a way as to prevent the diskettes from being copied to produce usable >3.5" diskettes or a CD? I remember that the earliest versions of Lotus >1-2-3 required the diskette in the floppy drive as a "key" for the program >to start-up. I'm not sure what measures were taken for version 3.1. > > From dmabry at mich.com Wed Oct 1 13:10:26 2003 From: dmabry at mich.com (Dave Mabry) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:14 2005 Subject: Lotus 1-2-3 v. 3.1 (DOS) copy protection ??? In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20031001124359.00bd0b18@popmail.voicenet.com> References: <5.2.0.9.2.20031001124359.00bd0b18@popmail.voicenet.com> Message-ID: <3F7B1892.7070102@mich.com> It's been a while, so I may not be remembering this correctly. What I do remember was that the copy protection was such that Lotus 123 had to be installed onto a hard drive. At install time the program would do some characterization of the hard drive (maybe the computer, too) so that at run time it could tell if it was running from the hard drive it was installed on. At install time, if a successful install, it would decrement a counter on the floppy disk (which itself had some trick tracks on it). Seems like it gave you two installs, so the counter started at 2. Now, to your question...I remember a way to hack the executable files so that the part of the code that checked to see if it was running from the hard drive it was installed on was removed. At that point you could just copy the program as if it were normal, no protection files. The part I'm not sure about is whether this was version 2 or version 3. I think I've described version 3. Hope this helps some. Gene Ehrich wrote: > Does anybody know or remember > > Are 5-1/4" original diskettes for Lotus 1-2-3 v. 3.1 (DOS) copy protected > in such a way as to prevent the diskettes from being copied to produce > usable > 3.5" diskettes or a CD? I remember that the earliest versions of Lotus > 1-2-3 required the diskette in the floppy drive as a "key" for the program > to start-up. I'm not sure what measures were taken for version 3.1. > > . > -- Dave Mabry dmabry@mich.com Dossin Museum Underwater Research Team From dmabry at mich.com Wed Oct 1 13:19:44 2003 From: dmabry at mich.com (Dave Mabry) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:14 2005 Subject: Lotus 1-2-3 v. 3.1 (DOS) copy protection ??? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20031001135820.007c84e0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20031001135820.007c84e0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3F7B1AC0.6030802@mich.com> Ok, Joe is, no doubt, correct on this. My recollection must have been for V2.x. Joe wrote: > No it's not copy protected. V 3.1 was after Lotus lost their bid on a > LARGE US Government contract due to copy protection and they finally got > smart and removed the protection. I have a complete package of V 3.1 that > I've never installed. I looked through the docs and they say to backup the > disk using "Copy a:*.*" and the tutorial doesn't tell you to insert a > floppy disk when starting 123 so it doesn't use a key disk either. > > I have full sets of both 5 1/4 and 3 1/2 disks if you have any problems > making a copy. > > FWIW I'm pretty sure that version 1.xx were not protected. V 2.x were > protected and all versions after that were not protected. > > Joe > > > At 12:52 PM 10/1/03 -0400, you wrote: > >>Does anybody know or remember >> >>Are 5-1/4" original diskettes for Lotus 1-2-3 v. 3.1 (DOS) copy protected >>in such a way as to prevent the diskettes from being copied to produce usable >>3.5" diskettes or a CD? I remember that the earliest versions of Lotus >>1-2-3 required the diskette in the floppy drive as a "key" for the program >>to start-up. I'm not sure what measures were taken for version 3.1. >> >> > > > . > -- Dave Mabry dmabry@mich.com Dossin Museum Underwater Research Team From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Oct 1 13:34:14 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:14 2005 Subject: Lotus 1-2-3 v. 3.1 (DOS) copy protection ??? In-Reply-To: <3F7B1892.7070102@mich.com> References: <5.2.0.9.2.20031001124359.00bd0b18@popmail.voicenet.com> <5.2.0.9.2.20031001124359.00bd0b18@popmail.voicenet.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031001143414.007c8100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 02:10 PM 10/1/03 -0400, you wrote: >It's been a while, so I may not be remembering this correctly. What I >do remember was that the copy protection was such that Lotus 123 had to >be installed onto a hard drive. At install time the program would do >some characterization of the hard drive (maybe the computer, too) so >that at run time it could tell if it was running from the hard drive it >was installed on. At install time, if a successful install, it would >decrement a counter on the floppy disk (which itself had some trick >tracks on it). Seems like it gave you two installs, so the counter >started at 2. I remember that but I don't remember which version had it. The books for V3.1 don't say anything about it but that certainly doesn't mean that it doesn't have it! Joe From alberto at a2sistemi.it Wed Oct 1 13:55:46 2003 From: alberto at a2sistemi.it (Alberto Rubinelli - A2 Sistemi) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:14 2005 Subject: TI 990 minicomputer In-Reply-To: <003201c38841$ee950060$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: > Just obtained a complete TI 990/10A system including several period TI > terminals, TI 810 printer, cpu, CDC 94xx drive, and some media. Most > importantly, a virgin OS install pack and complete manuals/docs. > Not sure if > it was DNOS or DX10 though. > > Anyone in need of copies of anything? I have a 990 without operating system, this is a wonderful new :) It' difficult make a copy ? Thanks ------------------------------------------------------ Alberto Rubinelli Mail : alberto@a2sistemi.it A2 SISTEMI Web : www.a2sistemi.it Via Costantino Perazzi 22 Tel 0321 640149 28100 NOVARA (NO) - ITALY Fax 0321 391769 Il mio museo di vecchi computers/My old computers museum http://www.retrocomputing.net ICQ : 49872318 ODIGO : 5269083 ------------------------------------------------------ From gesar at tiscalinet.ch Wed Oct 1 14:02:06 2003 From: gesar at tiscalinet.ch (Stefan Daehler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:14 2005 Subject: Intel Above Board AT Message-ID: <200310011902.h91J25g16906@smtp.tiscali.ch> Could somebody help me with the original software-installer for the Intel Above Board AT? I got such a board in a 286 AT and I were too keen to get it working, however all the installers I found were for some different type of AB. Thanks for caring! Steff From jwest at classiccmp.org Wed Oct 1 14:06:51 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:14 2005 Subject: TI 990 minicomputer References: Message-ID: <00e301c3884f$2be61a00$033310ac@kwcorp.com> You wrote.... ----- Original Message ----- > I have a 990 without operating system, this is a wonderful new :) > > It' difficult make a copy ? No problem at all, I would be happy to make you a copy. The only problem is media - I am not sure if I will have enough spare disk packs to copy one and send to you. Do you have a blank pack for the CDC 80mb drive you could send me, and I could copy the OS onto that? Or can this type of media still be purchased (for the cdc 80mb drive)? I know nothing about how to run this system, so it will take me a few months to get around to learning it and trying it out and seeing how to copy disk packs. Feel free to email me now and then to see if I'm there yet - I have no problems making a copy for you. Jay West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed Oct 1 15:33:07 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:14 2005 Subject: PDP 11/73 SLU In-Reply-To: Brian Hechinger "Re: PDP 11/73 SLU" (Oct 1, 11:43) References: <200310010220.h912Kq9E019657@onyx.spiritone.com> <3F7AFDCD.4050101@srv.net> <20031001114328.M18098@zill.net> Message-ID: <10310012133.ZM13256@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Oct 1, 11:43, Brian Hechinger wrote: > On Wed, Oct 01, 2003 at 10:16:13AM -0600, Kevin Handy wrote: > > > > The CPU card should be almost identical to an 11/83 system. > > Main difference is the speed of the clock, iirc. > > uhm, i thought a /73 was a dual width card and didn't have any serial or > anything on it. am i confused? Yes and no. There is a dual-height version of the 11/73 (KDJ11-A) which carries the processor, MMU, FPA, cache control, etc, but no bootstrap, SLUs, or line-tme clock. It was commonly sold as an OEM product or as an upgrade to 11/23 systems. There is also quad-height version (KDJ11-B), the same board as as the 11/83, but (if sold as an 11/73) it has a 15MHz crystal instead of 18MHz, and would originally have had different bootstrap ROMs. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From brian at quarterbyte.com Wed Oct 1 16:52:22 2003 From: brian at quarterbyte.com (Brian Knittel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:15 2005 Subject: Bruker Aspect 3000 computer and drives available In-Reply-To: <200310011431.h91EVWH5012445@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <3F7AEA26.19729.2E071414@localhost> Wow -- these are funny computers. If I'm not mistaken the Aspect 3000 is a more modern looking machine than the Bruker/Nicolet one that Sellam has pictures of. I'd love to see a picture of it if you can get one. It has semiconductor memory. It uses some bit-slice ALU or other. The disk drive that's with it, if it's a removable type, is probably RK05 compatible, although I read that later models supported SCSI disks. I used one of these in graduate school that was part of an experimental NMR imager (this was before the marketing types came up with "MRI" to get rid of the word "nuclear"). It came with an assembler and Pascal compiler. If I'm not mistaken the OS was called Adakos. It was a two-task foreground/background thing. Our application program was called Tomikon, but I think the one used for analytical work was called DISNMR. Sad to say I can't remember the history of the Bruker/Nicolet link. It may be that Bruker started out making just spectrometers and originally bought their computers from Nicolet (or vice versa). But, I believe that the Aspect 3000 was entirely Bruker's creation. Back the mid to late 80's, they were making and selling these out of Karlsruhe, Germany, and had a sales/support office in Billerica, MA. I spent a week at the Karlesuhe factory for training. These machines are probably still in use in the basements of University chemistry departments and possibly in corporate labs. If the University that has it doesn't want it, they might find a taker by posting on one of the NMR newsgroups. Or, someone with a keen interest in bizarre Pascal implementations should rescue this. Brian =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- _| _| _| Brian Knittel _| _| _| Quarterbyte Systems, Inc. _| _| _| Tel: 1-510-559-7930 _| _| _| Fax: 1-510-525-6889 _| _| _| Email: brian@quarterbyte.com _| _| _| http://www.quarterbyte.com From jpero at sympatico.ca Wed Oct 1 13:45:23 2003 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:15 2005 Subject: Digital Group ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20031001224405.GDSM12138.tomts21-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > On Wed, 1 Oct 2003, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > > > OK, so I just got bombed with requests for the Digital Group > > stuff. Which reminds me... what is/was so special about that > > company (from Colorado, I believe) or their systems? > > Nothing other than it was one of the very earliest of the homebrew kit > computer companies, and they made fairly wacky stuff, like the Phideck and > multiple processor systems. They're sort of on par with OSI in terms of > obscurity: not a whole lot of systems around. > > It's too bad you tossed your hardware :( Agreed. And it's so obscure. Most of them was hand-built. Wizard > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival From vcf at siconic.com Wed Oct 1 17:49:36 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:15 2005 Subject: Bruker Aspect 3000 computer and drives available In-Reply-To: <3F7AEA26.19729.2E071414@localhost> Message-ID: On Wed, 1 Oct 2003, Brian Knittel wrote: > It may be that Bruker started out making just spectrometers and > originally bought their computers from Nicolet (or vice versa). But, Nicolet re-badged Bruker systems. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Oct 1 18:06:53 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:15 2005 Subject: Unwaged In-Reply-To: from "Feldman, Robert" at Oct 1, 3 07:47:49 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 710 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20031002/8015cdc8/attachment.ksh From mikeford at socal.rr.com Wed Oct 1 17:57:02 2003 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:15 2005 Subject: Little Perkin Elmer terminal In-Reply-To: <000201c387b0$51c82190$6501a8c0@DCOHOE> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20031001155201.037d4cf0@pop-server.socal.rr.com> I noticed a small Perkin Elmer terminal setting on a instrument of some kind (spectro something) at a scrap place the other day, looked to be in OK shape, RS232, but I didn't notice the actual model number. Should I have taken a closer look? From dancohoe at oxford.net Wed Oct 1 18:46:47 2003 From: dancohoe at oxford.net (Dan Cohoe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:15 2005 Subject: Bruker Aspect 3000 computer and drives available In-Reply-To: <3F7AEA26.19729.2E071414@localhost> Message-ID: <001f01c38876$479ebe10$6501a8c0@DCOHOE> > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Brian Knittel > Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 5:52 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Bruker Aspect 3000 computer and drives available > > > Wow -- these are funny computers. If I'm not mistaken the Aspect 3000 > is a more modern looking machine than the Bruker/Nicolet one that > Sellam has pictures of. I'd love to see a picture of it if you can > get one. > > It has semiconductor memory. It uses some bit-slice ALU or other. The > disk drive that's with it, if it's a removable type, is probably RK05 > compatible, although I read that later models supported SCSI disks. > > I used one of these in graduate school that was part of an > experimental NMR imager (this was before the marketing types came up > with "MRI" to get rid of the word "nuclear"). It came with an > assembler and Pascal compiler. If I'm not mistaken the OS was called > Adakos. It was a two-task foreground/background thing. Our > application program was called Tomikon, but I think the one used for > analytical work was called DISNMR. > > Sad to say I can't remember the history of the Bruker/Nicolet link. > It may be that Bruker started out making just spectrometers and > originally bought their computers from Nicolet (or vice versa). But, > I believe that the Aspect 3000 was entirely Bruker's creation. Back > the mid to late 80's, they were making and selling these out of > Karlsruhe, Germany, and had a sales/support office in Billerica, MA. > I spent a week at the Karlesuhe factory for training. > > These machines are probably still in use in the basements of > University chemistry departments and possibly in corporate labs. If > the University that has it doesn't want it, they might find a taker > by posting on one of the NMR newsgroups. Or, someone with a keen > interest in bizarre Pascal implementations should rescue this. > > Brian > > Yes you're describing it pretty well I think, not nearly as "classic-looking" as the one Sellam has. A list member with an interest in NMR has asked for it so I'll pick it up within a week or two. The fixed drive is a large fixed disk type,not a removable pack type. I'll post a picture of it when I get it home. Dan From cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net Wed Oct 1 19:32:42 2003 From: cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net (Christopher McNabb) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:15 2005 Subject: PDP 11/73 SLU In-Reply-To: <10310012133.ZM13256@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <200310010220.h912Kq9E019657@onyx.spiritone.com> <3F7AFDCD.4050101@srv.net> <20031001114328.M18098@zill.net> <10310012133.ZM13256@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <1065054248.13320.3.camel@unix> On Wed, 2003-10-01 at 16:33, Pete Turnbull wrote: > On Oct 1, 11:43, Brian Hechinger wrote: > > uhm, i thought a /73 was a dual width card and didn't have any serial > or > > anything on it. am i confused? > > Yes and no. There is a dual-height version of the 11/73 (KDJ11-A) > which carries the processor, MMU, FPA, cache control, etc, but no > bootstrap, SLUs, or line-tme clock. It was commonly sold as an OEM > product or as an upgrade to 11/23 systems. And this is the one that is installed in the Bomem Interferometer. Dual-height card, no SLU or bootstrap. The console is from a custom Bomem card that wants an EGA monitor and standard PC (old style 5 pin round connector) instead of a serial terminal for the console. It is really pretty useless for me, since the EGA monitors all appear to be toast and I wouldn't be able to use VTServer through the custom EGA thing. Interestingly, though, is the fact that this custom card also interfaces into a very large board that I believe is a vector processor. -- Christopher McNabb The McNabb Family From ian_primus at yahoo.com Wed Oct 1 20:35:53 2003 From: ian_primus at yahoo.com (Mr Ian Primus) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:15 2005 Subject: Little Perkin Elmer terminal In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20031001155201.037d4cf0@pop-server.socal.rr.com> Message-ID: <20031002013553.41482.qmail@web13906.mail.yahoo.com> --- Mike Ford wrote: > I noticed a small Perkin Elmer terminal setting on a > instrument of some > kind (spectro something) at a scrap place the other > day, looked to be in OK > shape, RS232, but I didn't notice the actual model > number. Should I have > taken a closer look? > > I probably would have. I have a Perkin Elmer 550 and I love it. It is a good, solid little terminal, even though it doesn't really have all the features that more modern ones do, but it still does it's job well. I'd say rescue it if possible. Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com From jrkeys at concentric.net Wed Oct 1 21:27:33 2003 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:15 2005 Subject: Picked Up An Mits Turnkey 8800b Today Message-ID: <00d201c3888c$be17b6d0$ef0add40@oemcomputer> Late this evening a long drive to get it, I picked up Mits Altair 8800b in great shape and the following manuals: altair 8800b Turnkey Computer Documentation 1st printing July 1977 Altair 88-MDS Minidisk Documentation Preliminary July 1977 altair Disk Operating System Documentation DOS June 1977 Dynabyte Operating Manual for 16k & 32k Fully Static Memory Modules October 1977 Mits Disk Extended BASIC Version Reference Manual July 1978 Now to have some fun getting it up and running. :-) From tothwolf at concentric.net Wed Oct 1 23:58:20 2003 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:15 2005 Subject: Texas Instruments software on ebay... Message-ID: Found this one on ebay (Not affiliated with seller, etc, etc): http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3048936176 Dunno if it is worth it or not, as I don't collect TI stuff myself...I also noticed a few other TI related auctions up as well, one of which is a complete setup. (Though it seems to be very misplaced in the category system.) -Toth From nico at farumdata.dk Thu Oct 2 00:51:47 2003 From: nico at farumdata.dk (Nico de Jong) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:15 2005 Subject: IBM 129 References: <009b01c3870b$d046d980$2101a8c0@farumdata.dk><36259.64.169.63.74.1064902793.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <3F7A0DB8.20906@tiac.net> Message-ID: <001b01c388a9$4ac9de20$2101a8c0@farumdata.dk> Just to make all you old farts drool: an IBM 129 is on auction on eBay germany http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2755264021&category=21926 There is one day plus some hours left, and no bids have yet been given. Nico From wmsmith at earthlink.net Thu Oct 2 01:03:01 2003 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:15 2005 Subject: Intel Above Board AT In-Reply-To: <200310011902.h91J25g16906@smtp.tiscali.ch> Message-ID: <001a01c388aa$d92abb20$7e39cd18@WaynePC> > Could somebody help me with the original software-installer > for the Intel > Above Board AT? > I got such a board in a 286 AT and I were too keen to get it working, > however all the installers I found were for some different type of AB. > > Thanks for caring! Steff > Well of course we care! I have three discs for the Above Board: 1. Installation for Intel Above Boards (Classic Bus Versions) LIM EMS 4.0 2. Intel Above Board ISA Installation Diskette 3. Above Board Setup I also have the following documentation: 1. Installation Guide for Intel Above Board Plus 8 and Plus 8 I/O (at least 200 pgs. long) 2. Information sheet for Lotus/Intel/Microsoft Expanded Memory Specification Version 4.0 3. Upgrading Above Board Software, copyright 1989 4. One sheet entitled "Recent News About Above Board Plus and Plus 8" Let me know what problem you are having and perhaps I can help. -W P.S. One interesting thing about the Intel Above Board is that there are a large number of chips on it (mostly RAM) but none of them are Intel. From TRASH3 at splab.cas.neu.edu Thu Oct 2 07:43:32 2003 From: TRASH3 at splab.cas.neu.edu (TRASH3@splab.cas.neu.edu) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:15 2005 Subject: Intel Above Board AT Message-ID: <031002084332.10a5c@splab.cas.neu.edu> According to the "Installing the Above Board/AT" manual, there really isn't much to the setup program. It is just a helper in that it will properly set up config.sys and autoexec.bat for the expanded memory manager, a print buffer and ramdisk. It does include the print buffer and ramdisk, but dos's ramdrive program (or shareware) should work. I haven't stumbled across the disks yet. Joe Heck From TRASH3 at splab.cas.neu.edu Thu Oct 2 07:56:13 2003 From: TRASH3 at splab.cas.neu.edu (TRASH3@splab.cas.neu.edu) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:15 2005 Subject: Intel Above Board AT Message-ID: <031002085613.10a67@splab.cas.neu.edu> well, I dug around some more and found a 5.25 inch disk "above board/at version 1.1" and also a hand written label for intel above board at and ps/at ver 2.4 contact me off list if you need some support or replacement files. Joe Heck trash3 at splab dot cas dot neu dot edu From jwest at classiccmp.org Thu Oct 2 08:57:42 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:15 2005 Subject: Texas Instruments software on ebay... References: Message-ID: <00ae01c388ed$264fda60$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Bear in mind that this ebay ad is for TI99/4a stuff, a small microcomputer. The system that Alberto and I were talking about was a TI990 series (10A) minicomputer. Vastly different machines (in weight at the very least). Jay West ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tothwolf" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 11:58 PM Subject: Texas Instruments software on ebay... > Found this one on ebay (Not affiliated with seller, etc, etc): > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3048936176 > > Dunno if it is worth it or not, as I don't collect TI stuff myself...I > also noticed a few other TI related auctions up as well, one of which is a > complete setup. (Though it seems to be very misplaced in the category > system.) > > -Toth > --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From MARKF at LSI-MA.COM Wed Oct 1 09:37:03 2003 From: MARKF at LSI-MA.COM (Flahive, Mark) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:15 2005 Subject: 386 motherbrds. Message-ID: Hello Chris, I would like to take those 386 motherboards off your hands if they're still available. Believe it or not we have a use for them. Thanks Mark F. Cell (603) 305-5124 markf@lsi-ma.com From nasim786 at earthlink.net Wed Oct 1 10:08:48 2003 From: nasim786 at earthlink.net (Nasim) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:15 2005 Subject: Century Data T2000 exerciser Message-ID: Hi, This is a belated response to a post you made here: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctech/2003-February/010641.html I happened upon it while doing a 'for fun' search on the net for anything doing with good ol' Century Data, my employer when I was young. Couldn't resist responding to the post, even if it was half a year late! The exerciser that you have is/was for the Trident series of hard disk drives (predecessor to the Marksman). I was the main (in fact, pretty much the ONLY) technician at Century Data/Calcomp, for these exercisers back from the late 1970's to the mid 1980's, when they were phased out. I retired in 1985. Have fun! (BTW, where'd you find one of these dinosaurs??) Take care, Nasim From r.mueller at fz-juelich.de Wed Oct 1 10:28:56 2003 From: r.mueller at fz-juelich.de (R. Mueller) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:15 2005 Subject: Quick Basic (Bob Mason): Zipping it Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.0.20031001172603.02906c80@iffpcsrv.iff.kfa-juelich.de> I could ZIP the files, though not eagerly. QB 4.5 fits on two 3.5 inch diskettes, so it is not large by today's standards. I do not recall how large 7.x is. It always amazes me to look at modern bloatware and compare how little more USEFUL work it produces than earlier, much smaller programs. I happen to have Winword 2 and it meets most of my needs. In fact, except for Internet activities, I am not sure any program I need requires Windows past Windows for Workgroups=3.11. I find Quick Basic sufficient for most calculations and I doubt Visual Basic will do any more beyond filling a larger chunk of my hard disk and DRAM, unless it can handle a larger array (matrix), which is a real limitation in Quick Basic, which dates back to the time of 1 MB machines. Of course, if I loose my mind and decide to promote my image in the form of elaborate Web pages, or to write some parasites, I will find Visual Basic better, but I have not yet reached that stage. I suggest writing directly to me if you are requesting a copy of QB; it reduces the clutter on the newsgroup and it is doubtful others care whether I email one of you the program. And I will send 4.5 unless you really need 7.x (I am not sure where the diskettes are!). Bob From richardbrown at testman.com Wed Oct 1 11:08:58 2003 From: richardbrown at testman.com (Richard Brown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:15 2005 Subject: Perkin Elmer 550 Terminal Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20031001120328.00a15e30@pop.mindspring.com> Hi, I noticed your email with comments about the 550 terminal. I have one that has no vertical and am trying to get info so I can use another terminal in its place. I'm trying to find out what the mode switch position 2 in the on position does to the settings. ANy chance you might be able to tell me that? That's the only MODE switch setting used. The BAUD rate is set at 9600. When I try another ASCII terminal, the characters come out incorrectly on the display of the equipment I'm trying to use the ASCII terminal with. WHere as the perkin elmer terminal gives the correct characters except there is no vertical on the display so I can't read it. Thanks for any help you can give me. Richard Brown 781 938 7033 From bill at timeguy.com Wed Oct 1 11:56:45 2003 From: bill at timeguy.com (Bill Richman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:15 2005 Subject: Geek Destinations in St. Louis? (Also San Diego [slightly different topic]) In-Reply-To: <3F738836.FE97324B@msm.umr.edu> Message-ID: <20031001115138.H54620-100000@outpost.timeguy.com> Went to Gateway's address. They just moved! They're a few miles in the opposite direction now, at 2220 Welsch Industrial Court. I'm glad I had my GPS mapping system along, or we might never have found them. It's a pretty obscure location. They were really happy to see customers finding them at the new place, I think; two of them met us at the door, and one more was waving to us out the window when we pulled up. Seems like a nice bunch of folks. They'd moved all the new stuff, but all the old stuff was still back at the old building. We were trying to get them to take us over to look at it, but they were too busy getting things organized at the new place. They may be having a big equipment sale soon, so keep an eye out. Thanks for the good pointer! We also went to Jasper's Antique Radio Museum, which was kind of neat, although Jasper is kind of a crotchety old guy. Also found a great Indian buffet at the top of Howard Johnson's next to the airport; if you get the chance, give it a try. Wonderful food, reasonable prices, and a great view to boot. On Thu, 25 Sep 2003, jim wrote: > > > > Bill wrote... > > > We'll be in St. Louis this weekend. Any good museums, junk shops, or > > > other recommended geek destinations in the area? GPS coordinates happily > > > accepted. :-) > > > > Two surplus places that I know of... > > > > Gateway Electronics 314-427-6116 or (800-669-5810) 8123 Page Blvd. - St. > > Louis, MO 63130 > > Gateway is mostly modern stuff, but they have an isle or two that is quite > > old stuff. Not great, but worth a look-see. > > The guys at gateway have the building next door full of inventory, and if you > get friendly with the right fellow at the counter, you can get a tour of that > building, > and see a bit of other stuff. Just ask what they have, and indicate you made > a special trip in from some distance and I have found they accomodate me > and dig a bit so that I don't miss any "new" stuff. > > but then I've been coming there since they were on Delmar and Stu had just > started it (maybe 35 years ago). > > Sadly Stu passed away a couple of years ago, and is sorely missed. > > on a slightly different topic. > > Gateway has a San Diego outlet that has some stuff, and there is also a place > nearby there worth seeing in San Diego called Industrial Liquidators. > > I also dig out the listings for the guys in El Cajon when I go down there > junking. > > Any other San diego places to see? > > Jim > From nedry at mail.bedlambells.com Thu Oct 2 01:31:33 2003 From: nedry at mail.bedlambells.com (Mark Firestone) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:15 2005 Subject: Unwaged In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20031002072823.00b8ac50@mail.bedlambells.com> How cynical. I used to work for a company here (the UK) that did IT training for places like the Manchester Housing Authority (or whatever it's called...) and I asked this guy, why did you build all those horrible tower blocks (anyone who hasn't seen it, it looks like they hired a Soviet apartment architect. He said, "the more people we got in the least space... the more funding we got." Take Care, Mark (expat American in Oswaldtwistle) At 00:06 02/10/2003 +0100, Tony wrote: >The reason _I_ say that is that in the UK, 'unemployed' is used to mean >'unemployed and claiming benefit'. The government fiddle the unemployment >figures by preventing people from claiming benefits for more than 6 >months or so. Thus they can claim few people are unemployed, even if a >rather larger number don't actually have jobs. > >In any case, I am not unemployed. I do plenty of jobs (fixing old >computers, old cameras, building hackish toys, etc). Pity I don't get >paid for doing them, but... > >-tony [---------] "There's your answer, fishbulb." Website - http://www.retrobbs.org Tradewars - telnet tradewars.retrobbs.org BBS - telnet bbs.retrobbs.org 2323 WIKI - http://www.tpoh.org/cgi-bin/tpoh-wiki [---------] From booned at ccvalve.com Thu Oct 2 07:57:45 2003 From: booned at ccvalve.com (Dan J Boone) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:15 2005 Subject: 8-inch floppy drives Message-ID: <000801c388e4$c69720e0$5810040a@camerondiv.com> please get back asap if you have any available units left...my cell is 405-659-0494 or reply to this e-mail or fax me at 405-629-0470 thanks ken ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ This e-mail is confidential, may contain proprietary information of the Cooper Cameron Corporation and its operating Divisions and may be confidential or privileged. This e-mail should be read, copied, disseminated and/or used only by the addressee. If you have received this message in error please delete it, together with any attachments, from your system. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From cb at mythtech.net Thu Oct 2 09:18:48 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:15 2005 Subject: 386 motherbrds. Message-ID: >Hello Chris, > I would like to take those 386 motherboards off your hands if they're >still available. Believe it or not we have a use for them. Sorry, ALL PC's have been sent to the dump. Nothing left to give away in the 386/486/low Pentium level. I do have some IBM AT's, an XT, and a few PC's available however. They are on the junk list, just haven't made it that far yet. -chris From waltje at pdp11.nl Thu Oct 2 10:17:43 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:15 2005 Subject: Looking for (Irwin) EZtape V1.0 for DOS Message-ID: Hiyas, Dont laugh. Yes, I need that annoying program, so I can read some of my (very old) tapes which contain seemingly interesting stuff.. didnt know I still had those :) Cheers, Fred -- Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist Visit the VAXlab Project at http://www.pdp11.nl/VAXlab/ Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Sunnyvale, CA, USA From markk at clara.co.uk Thu Oct 2 12:12:42 2003 From: markk at clara.co.uk (Mark) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:15 2005 Subject: CorelSCSI for Macintosh Message-ID: Hi, I recently picked up a copy of CorelSCSI v1.01 for Macintosh on eBay. What was the last/final version of CorelSCSI for the Mac? Does anyone have a version later than 1.01? I'd also like to get hold of earlier Corel SCSI-related Mac software. I think the product names were CorelDRIVER and Optistar. Some background: CorelSCSI allows SCSI devices to be used on (older) Mac computers. Apart from CD-ROM and direct-access devices, e.g. SyQuest drives and rewritable magneto-optical, it supports WORM drives and media. It may be the only Mac software which supports write-once media, with Mac applications seeing WORM disks as normal HFS volumes. It's no longer sold or supported by Corel. No more modern packages like FWB Hard Disk Toolkit and FormatterOne from Software Architects support write-once media. Regards, -- Mark From gesar at tiscalinet.ch Thu Oct 2 11:10:49 2003 From: gesar at tiscalinet.ch (Stefan Daehler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:15 2005 Subject: Intel Above Board AT Message-ID: <200310021610.h92GAng04274@smtp.tiscali.ch> Original Message: >well, I dug around some more and found a 5.25 inch disk "above board/at >version 1.1" and also a hand written label for intel above board at and >ps/at ver 2.4 > >contact me off list if you need some support or replacement files. > >Joe Heck trash3 at splab dot cas dot neu dot edu So, there may be some hope. In fact, I just have the bare board, no software, no manuals. I tried several installers I found for download, but none of them worked with the AB AT. I'm an absolute novice on old DOS-machines and I'm always glad if some installer does the configuration of CONFIG.SYS and AUTOEXEC.BAT. You'd do me a great favor if you could send me this installer. Thanks. Steff From allain at panix.com Thu Oct 2 11:29:42 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:15 2005 Subject: got terminals? (dec) References: <6.0.0.22.0.20031001172603.02906c80@iffpcsrv.iff.kfa-juelich.de> Message-ID: <024f01c38902$627ffa00$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Back when we bought VT100 terminals new from Dec, they all came with DB25f terminators on their printer ports, probably to protect them from ESD. I just got *large* supply of Dec 12-15336-02 DB25f terminators that I don't need (and other, more needed things). If you have suitable Dec terminals (pre-MMJ) that you want to protect, let me know and I'll send you some terminators. John A. From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org Thu Oct 2 12:02:03 2003 From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:15 2005 Subject: Garage sale, DEC 3000/500 $50, HSZ40 $25, ... Message-ID: <3F7C5A0B.2040702@aurora.regenstrief.org> Am I crazy to sell a DEC 3000/500 server (desk side) for $50? I believe it's got all the RAM it can fit and disk in and lots SCSI plugs out. My HSZ40s go for $25 a piece. My HP9000K400 with 2xDDS2 drives and 30 GB (?) RAID array and HP Terminal all in one rack go for $100. Am I crazy or just fed up about stuff taking space in my garage? If you are in the Indianapolis area and want to get some stuff, go for it as long as supplies last. -Gunther From liste at artware.qc.ca Thu Oct 2 12:18:02 2003 From: liste at artware.qc.ca (liste@artware.qc.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:15 2005 Subject: Mac SE/30 revival Message-ID: I was driving into town when I spoted the aforementioned computer in some phule's garbage. I stopped and pulled it out. However, when I turn it on, the screen comes up 4 grey scan lines, then alternating 8 black scan lines and 8 grey scan lines. A friend mentioned that this is normal boot config, that it should then proceed to the happy mac icon and so on. He asked if the ROM was still in it. I can't get the box open though : I don't have the extra special long torx driver to get at the 2 top screws. And the hex extention bits I have don't fit into the hole. Anyone have a clue about how to revive this? I'd love to get netbsd running on it. Or is it hopeless? -Philip From liste at artware.qc.ca Thu Oct 2 12:22:09 2003 From: liste at artware.qc.ca (liste@artware.qc.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:15 2005 Subject: 2600 video touch pad Message-ID: So I was poking around a brocante in Sherbrooke and I spied a bag with Star Raiders and a Video Touch Pad. SCORE! Also in the bag : a RCA RF cable. I got it all for 3 CAD. The place had a hugely inflated idea about what these were worth : they were selling what looked like a Coleco 2600 clone for 20 CAD! I'd never seen a video touch pad before and only vaguely heard it refered to. I've not tested it, but plan to soon. -Philip From nico at farumdata.dk Thu Oct 2 12:24:18 2003 From: nico at farumdata.dk (Nico de Jong) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:15 2005 Subject: Looking for (Irwin) EZtape V1.0 for DOS References: Message-ID: <001401c3890a$054397e0$2101a8c0@farumdata.dk> If you can do with a version 2.22, I can help you. Nico ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred N. van Kempen" To: Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 5:17 PM Subject: Looking for (Irwin) EZtape V1.0 for DOS > Hiyas, > > Dont laugh. Yes, I need that annoying program, so I can read some > of my (very old) tapes which contain seemingly interesting stuff.. > didnt know I still had those :) > > Cheers, > Fred > -- > Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist > Visit the VAXlab Project at http://www.pdp11.nl/VAXlab/ > Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ > Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Sunnyvale, CA, USA > > From curt at atarimuseum.com Thu Oct 2 12:59:06 2003 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (AHS Mail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:15 2005 Subject: 2600 video touch pad References: Message-ID: <001701c3890e$df55de80$1e02a8c0@WNYC1145744> Philip, If you go to Jack Berg Sales website (in TX, do a Google to find them) they sell the full Atari 2600 Star Raiders package brand new in Mint boxes with the Video Touch Pad Boxes and Star Raiders boxed inside a large combo package, they also have lots of other cool stuff. Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 1:22 PM Subject: 2600 video touch pad > So I was poking around a brocante in Sherbrooke and I spied a bag with > Star Raiders and a Video Touch Pad. SCORE! Also in the bag : a RCA RF > cable. I got it all for 3 CAD. The place had a hugely inflated idea > about what these were worth : they were selling what looked like a Coleco > 2600 clone for 20 CAD! > > I'd never seen a video touch pad before and only vaguely heard it refered > to. I've not tested it, but plan to soon. > > -Philip From ian_primus at yahoo.com Thu Oct 2 13:01:31 2003 From: ian_primus at yahoo.com (Ian Primus) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:15 2005 Subject: Perkin Elmer 550 Terminal In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20031001120328.00a15e30@pop.mindspring.com> Message-ID: <73DF76B8-F502-11D7-91F9-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> On Wednesday, October 1, 2003, at 12:08 PM, Richard Brown wrote: > Hi, > I noticed your email with comments about the 550 terminal. I have one > that has no vertical and am trying to get info so I can use another > terminal in its place. I'm trying to find out what the mode switch > position 2 in the on position does to the settings. ANy chance you > might be able to tell me that? That's the only MODE switch setting > used. The BAUD rate is set at 9600. When I try another ASCII > terminal, the characters come out incorrectly on the display of the > equipment I'm trying to use the ASCII terminal with. WHere as the > perkin elmer terminal gives the correct characters except there is no > vertical on the display so I can't read it. > Thanks for any help you can give me. > Richard Brown > 781 938 7033 > > Ok, I got the manual off the shelf - here are the switch settings: Switches 1 and 2 set the parity: Switch 1 Switch 2 Parity ------------------------- Off Off Odd Off On Even On Off Mark On On Space The other switches are for the other functions: Switch # On Off ---------------------------------------------- Switch 3 1 stop bit 2 stop bits Switch 4 50 Hz 60 Hz Switch 5 Inverse video Standard video Switch 6* - 12v open Switch 7* + 12v open Switch 8 Half Duplex Full Duplex Switch 9 DTR High Line switch controlled DTR * - Only applies to terminals with current loop option Hopefully this is the information you were looking for, let me know if it helps. Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com From ian_primus at yahoo.com Thu Oct 2 13:10:06 2003 From: ian_primus at yahoo.com (Ian Primus) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:15 2005 Subject: Mac SE/30 revival In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thursday, October 2, 2003, at 01:18 PM, liste@artware.qc.ca wrote: > I was driving into town when I spoted the aforementioned computer in > some > phule's garbage. I stopped and pulled it out. However, when I turn it > on, the screen comes up 4 grey scan lines, then alternating 8 black > scan > lines and 8 grey scan lines. A friend mentioned that this is normal > boot > config, that it should then proceed to the happy mac icon and so on. > He > asked if the ROM was still in it. I can't get the box open though : I > don't have the extra special long torx driver to get at the 2 top > screws. > And the hex extention bits I have don't fit into the hole. > > Anyone have a clue about how to revive this? I'd love to get netbsd > running on it. > > Or is it hopeless? > > -Philip > Should be repairable. Here is a site that has just about everything you ever wanted to know about the Macintosh SE/30. http://www.biwa.ne.jp/~shamada/fullmac/repairEng.html As for getting the computer open, I made my own tool. Here is what you will need: a Bic Stic pen (the white round ones) a new pencil (hex shaped type) a T-15 driver bit Take the pen, and pull out the ink cartridge and the black plug at the end, leaving you with a hollow plastic tube. Now, sharpen the end of the pencil a little, and shove it into the pen barrel until it is firmly lodged. Then, shove the T-15 driver bit in the other end of the pen barrel. What you have now is a rather kludgey tool that you can use to get the screws out from inside the handle. It _does_ work, and I have opened many a mac this way. Good luck! Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com From cb at mythtech.net Thu Oct 2 13:22:11 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:15 2005 Subject: Mac SE/30 revival Message-ID: >However, when I turn it >on, the screen comes up 4 grey scan lines, then alternating 8 black scan >lines and 8 grey scan lines. A friend mentioned that this is normal boot >config, that it should then proceed to the happy mac icon and so on. He >asked if the ROM was still in it. Er... none of my healthy classic macs start like that. And if that WAS normal, then it indeed should proceed to either a Happy Mac, or a floppy with a blinking question mark, or a Sad Mac with a code number. Since you don't indicate that you get any of the above, I'd have to say something is wrong. If it was something internally testable, such as bad or missing ram, or a bad or missing ROM simm, then you should get a sad mac code (lots of other things are internally testable as well and would resuld in a sad mac code). Do you get any noises when it is on? Any squeels, or flupping noise, or anything? Is there a startup BONG when you power it up? Can you hear a hard drive spinning up inside? are the lines vertical or horizontal? Once it goes to the 8x8 pattern, does it just continue to repeat that? What happens if you leave it on for a while (5 minutes or so). -chris From alberto at a2sistemi.it Thu Oct 2 15:21:14 2003 From: alberto at a2sistemi.it (Alberto Rubinelli - A2 Sistemi) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:15 2005 Subject: Texas Instruments software on ebay... In-Reply-To: <00ae01c388ed$264fda60$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: > Bear in mind that this ebay ad is for TI99/4a stuff, a small > microcomputer. > The system that Alberto and I were talking about was a TI990 series (10A) > minicomputer. Vastly different machines (in weight at the very least). There is only a "little" weight difference :)) Alberto ------------------------------------------------------ Alberto Rubinelli Mail : alberto@a2sistemi.it A2 SISTEMI Web : www.a2sistemi.it Via Costantino Perazzi 22 Tel 0321 640149 28100 NOVARA (NO) - ITALY Fax 0321 391769 Il mio museo di vecchi computers/My old computers museum http://www.retrocomputing.net ICQ : 49872318 ODIGO : 5269083 ------------------------------------------------------ From geoffr at zipcon.net Thu Oct 2 15:38:34 2003 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:15 2005 Subject: WD 1002-05 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.2.20031002133722.04a2ddb0@mail.zipcon.net> Hey! anyone have any of these floating around? I'm feeling twisted and am thinking of hooking up a HD on/in my model 4 :) (trying to decide if I can figure out how to mount the board inside the mod IV case :) From geoffreythomas at onetel.net.uk Thu Oct 2 14:03:08 2003 From: geoffreythomas at onetel.net.uk (Geoffrey Thomas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:15 2005 Subject: Unwaged References: <5.2.0.9.0.20031002072823.00b8ac50@mail.bedlambells.com> Message-ID: <007301c3892b$abec6060$725c4ed5@geoff> That's correct , they had a minimum person density per acre for new build and you couldn't build publicly funded housing which didn't at least meet that minimum. This was in the sixties or poss. 50's onwards . What are they now doing with all those high-rise places - yes , that's right , they're pulling them down . The blind leading the blind , or how governments love to waste our money. Geoff. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Firestone" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 7:31 AM Subject: Re: Unwaged > How cynical. I used to work for a company here (the UK) that did IT > training for places like the Manchester Housing Authority (or whatever it's > called...) and I asked this guy, why did you build all those horrible tower > blocks (anyone who hasn't seen it, it looks like they hired a Soviet > apartment architect. > > He said, "the more people we got in the least space... the more funding we > got." > > Take Care, > > Mark (expat American in Oswaldtwistle) > > At 00:06 02/10/2003 +0100, Tony wrote: > > >The reason _I_ say that is that in the UK, 'unemployed' is used to mean > >'unemployed and claiming benefit'. The government fiddle the unemployment > >figures by preventing people from claiming benefits for more than 6 > >months or so. Thus they can claim few people are unemployed, even if a > >rather larger number don't actually have jobs. > > > >In any case, I am not unemployed. I do plenty of jobs (fixing old > >computers, old cameras, building hackish toys, etc). Pity I don't get > >paid for doing them, but... > > > >-tony > > [---------] > "There's your answer, fishbulb." > > Website - http://www.retrobbs.org > Tradewars - telnet tradewars.retrobbs.org > BBS - telnet bbs.retrobbs.org 2323 > WIKI - http://www.tpoh.org/cgi-bin/tpoh-wiki > > [---------] > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Oct 2 17:07:46 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:15 2005 Subject: stuff FA Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031002180746.007b94a0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Just finished listing a Cablescan ET-1024 cable continuity tester, a couple of NICE Real Time Devices PC/104 Data Modules, a National Instruments GPIB card and a DDC Syncro to Digital or Resolver to Digital converter card on E-bay. See Joe From vcf at siconic.com Thu Oct 2 17:26:46 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:15 2005 Subject: 2600 video touch pad In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 2 Oct 2003 liste@artware.qc.ca wrote: > So I was poking around a brocante in Sherbrooke and I spied a bag with > Star Raiders and a Video Touch Pad. SCORE! Also in the bag : a RCA RF > cable. I got it all for 3 CAD. The place had a hugely inflated idea > about what these were worth : they were selling what looked like a Coleco > 2600 clone for 20 CAD! That would probably be the Gemini. CAD$20 is not bad for that. They aren't terribly common. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Oct 2 17:21:49 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:15 2005 Subject: Perkin Elmer 550 Terminal In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20031001120328.00a15e30@pop.mindspring.com> from "Richard Brown" at Oct 1, 3 12:08:58 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 400 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20031002/c1b70329/attachment.ksh From aek at spies.com Thu Oct 2 19:15:43 2003 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:15 2005 Subject: Pertec tape formatter manual Message-ID: <200310030015.h930FhRa015474@spies.com> The Pertec 9 track PE formatter manual that is on loan from Joe is now scanned and on line at www.spies.com/aek/pdf/pertec/101399_F6X9_PEfmtr_Dec71.pdf It isn't going to be directly of use for 7 or 9 track NRZI though, since it appears to be PE only. It does describe the original PERTEC dual 100 pin interface cables, though. I've gotten about 2/3 of the way through scanning the material that arrived from him earlier this week. Things should start trickling onto the web site over the next few weeks. From jrkeys at concentric.net Thu Oct 2 19:21:53 2003 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:15 2005 Subject: Key needed for Altair 8800b Message-ID: <013d01c38944$598b2ae0$b008dd40@oemcomputer> Does anyone have an extra key or know a source for the front panel for the Altair Turnkey computer? Thanks in advance From jwstephens at msm.umr.edu Thu Oct 2 19:27:12 2003 From: jwstephens at msm.umr.edu (jim) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:15 2005 Subject: Geek Destinations in St. Louis? (Also San Diego [slightlydifferent topic]) References: <20031001115138.H54620-100000@outpost.timeguy.com> Message-ID: <3F7CC260.550EDC6D@msm.umr.edu> there was a good barbeque place up on convoy that we stopped at. Thanks for the heads up on the address, I'd have been lost or following the maps and cusssing. Also had not heard of the Jaspers, I'll look it up. Also to run this topic into the ground, Dinner at the 94th aero squadron (or whatever restaraunt is running in their building next to the runway) is good. It is at Mongomery field, which is adjacent to the 805 / 163 X crossing, and near these outlets. Jim Bill Richman wrote: > Went to Gateway's address. They just moved! They're a few miles in the > opposite direction now, at 2220 Welsch Industrial Court. > We also went to Jasper's Antique Radio > Museum, which was kind of neat, although Jasper is kind of a crotchety old > guy. Also found a great Indian buffet at the top of Howard Johnson's next > to the airport; if you get the chance, give it a try. Wonderful food, > reasonable prices, and a great view to boot. > > On Thu, 25 Sep 2003, jim wrote: Did you find the El Cajon places? I just looked in the yellow pages and did a google search for "san diego electronic junk or such" Jim From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Thu Oct 2 22:32:22 2003 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:15 2005 Subject: Key needed for Altair 8800b In-Reply-To: <013d01c38944$598b2ae0$b008dd40@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <000001c3895e$f8388290$947ba8c0@p933> I doubt that they'd all be keyed the same, but if you'd like I can take mine over to a locksmith and see what can be done. . . Erik Klein www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum The Vintage Computer Forum -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Keys Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 5:22 PM To: cctech@classiccmp Subject: Key needed for Altair 8800b Does anyone have an extra key or know a source for the front panel for the Altair Turnkey computer? Thanks in advance From jvansickler at cox.net Thu Oct 2 23:59:32 2003 From: jvansickler at cox.net (jvansickler@cox.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:15 2005 Subject: AMSTRAD PCW8256 systems & sw available Message-ID: <20031003045931.DSHS10143.fed1mtao05.cox.net@smtp.west.cox.net> I have 3 complete systems, all working. All upgraded to 512k. Two desktop cases, one w/single 5 1/4", one w/two 5 1/4" (PCW can be config'd to use both, instead of 3" A:, 5 1/4" B:) One contains a home-made (wire-wrapped) ser/par interface Two spare 5 1/4" drives Chips for 2 more memory upgrades A few printer ribbons Numerous Public Domain prog's, on 3" and 5 1/4" A couple of dozen 3" diskettes, all written to. A couple of year's worth of the PCW SIG Newsletters (Al Warsh's UG) Various PCW app's - Mini-Office Professional DBase II LocoScript II more - I can't recall exactly, but will look for it if you ask about it. Let me know if you're interested. Thanks, Jim From finnegpt at purdue.edu Fri Oct 3 00:06:52 2003 From: finnegpt at purdue.edu (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:15 2005 Subject: Bruker Aspect 3000 computer and drives available In-Reply-To: <001f01c38876$479ebe10$6501a8c0@DCOHOE> References: <001f01c38876$479ebe10$6501a8c0@DCOHOE> Message-ID: <200310030006.52190.finnegpt@purdue.edu> > > -----Original Message----- > > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Brian Knittel > > Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 5:52 PM > > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > Subject: Bruker Aspect 3000 computer and drives available > > > > > > Wow -- these are funny computers. If I'm not mistaken the Aspect 3000 > > is a more modern looking machine than the Bruker/Nicolet one that > > Sellam has pictures of. I'd love to see a picture of it if you can > > get one. Sometimes, it's really strange how things work out. One of these just got sent out to Purdue's surplus Op the same day Dan sent out his first email (in fact, I think I got back to campus in time to recieve the message). Well, I've decided to go back and get it, and am working on taking pictures of it. I've got a somewhat blurry shot of the front available at: http://purdueriots.com/compcollect/aspect3k/ I'm going to try to take better pictures of it in a few minutes. I'm not sure what I want to do with it yet, if you're interested, feel free to contact me; it's also got a (250lb?) CDC fixed/removable platter disk drive. There were barely any cables left on it, and everything that wasn't a power cable was just cut off. Sometime, it just pisses me off how they treat stuff that's going out to salvage/surplus to try to be resold. Gah. I'll post further pictures up at the url above. -- Pat PLUG Vice President -- http://plug.purdue.org Slackware Linux -- http://slackware.com Purdue University Research Computing -- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs From vcf at siconic.com Fri Oct 3 00:18:47 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:16 2005 Subject: AMSTRAD PCW8256 systems & sw available In-Reply-To: <20031003045931.DSHS10143.fed1mtao05.cox.net@smtp.west.cox.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 3 Oct 2003 jvansickler@cox.net wrote: > Let me know if you're interested. Hi Jim. Where are they located? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From bmachacek at pcisys.net Fri Oct 3 00:53:40 2003 From: bmachacek at pcisys.net (Bill Machacek) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:16 2005 Subject: PDT 11/150 Message-ID: <006c01c38972$baeae860$0200000a@xeon> Hi All: I just rescued a Digital PDT 11/150 from going to the scarp yard. Now that I have it, what have I got? I also got a number of 8" disks and a VT100. Both units are very heavy units. I am not a DEC person, but I figured these were pretty old units and I just couldn't stand the thought of them going to the trash heap. Thanks Bill Machacek From netsurfer_x1 at fastmailbox.net Fri Oct 3 01:14:43 2003 From: netsurfer_x1 at fastmailbox.net (David Vohs) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:16 2005 Subject: HP-85 consumables. Message-ID: <20031003061443.723C33D9DB@www.fastmail.fm> Hi all! I'll be getting an HP-85 before the month is out & I was wondering where I could find a source for consumables (tape cartridges & thermal paper specifically) for this machine. Any info would be more than helpful. -- David Vohs netsurfer_x1@fastmailbox.net -- http://www.fastmail.fm - Choose from over 50 domains or use your own From jcwren at jcwren.com Fri Oct 3 08:00:35 2003 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:16 2005 Subject: PDT 11/150 In-Reply-To: <006c01c38972$baeae860$0200000a@xeon> References: <006c01c38972$baeae860$0200000a@xeon> Message-ID: <200310030900.35001.jcwren@jcwren.com> This is how addictions start, Bill. --John On Friday 03 October 2003 01:53 am, Bill Machacek wrote: > Hi All: > I just rescued a Digital PDT 11/150 from going to the scarp yard. Now > that I have it, what have I got? I also got a number of 8" disks and a > VT100. Both units are very heavy units. I am not a DEC person, but I > figured these were pretty old units and I just couldn't stand the thought > of them going to the trash heap. > > Thanks > > Bill Machacek From gschadow at regenstrief.org Thu Oct 2 11:49:50 2003 From: gschadow at regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:16 2005 Subject: Garage sale, DEC 3000/500 $50, HSZ40 $25, ... Message-ID: <3F7C572E.6010300@regenstrief.org> Am I crazy to sell a DEC 3000/500 server (desk side) for $50? I believe it's got all the RAM it can fit and disk in and lots SCSI plugs out. My HSZ40s go for $25 a piece. My HP9000K400 with 2xDDS2 drives and 30 GB (?) RAID array and HP Terminal all in one rack go for $100. Am I crazy or just fed up about stuff taking space in my garage? If you are in the Indianapolis area and want to get some stuff, go for it as long as supplies last. -Gunther From P_tornatore at westcomp.com Thu Oct 2 16:02:58 2003 From: P_tornatore at westcomp.com (Paul Tornatore) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:16 2005 Subject: parts Message-ID: Im looking for about 60 of TIL308 ? would you know where I can get these ? thanks Paul From jwest at classiccmp.org Fri Oct 3 08:06:06 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:16 2005 Subject: HP-85 consumables. References: <20031003061443.723C33D9DB@www.fastmail.fm> Message-ID: <009601c389af$1b8096c0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> No idea on the paper, I'd like to know. but, the tape cartridges can still be bought new. The HP-85 uses QIC-40 tapes, the brand name being "DC-1000". I found a site that sells them in boxes of 5 for $11 something... like $11.95 each tape. I only need a few, anyone want to go in on a box or two and split them up? Jay West ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Vohs" To: Sent: Friday, October 03, 2003 1:14 AM Subject: HP-85 consumables. > Hi all! > > I'll be getting an HP-85 before the month is out & I was wondering where > I could find a source for consumables (tape cartridges & thermal paper > specifically) for this machine. > > Any info would be more than helpful. > -- > David Vohs > netsurfer_x1@fastmailbox.net > > -- > http://www.fastmail.fm - Choose from over 50 domains or use your own > --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From jwest at classiccmp.org Fri Oct 3 08:13:15 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:16 2005 Subject: HP DOS O/S help? Message-ID: <00a901c389b0$1b0ea5a0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> I have an HP diagnostics pack on 7900 media that I would like to put on 1/2 bootable mag tape. According to the manuals on the diganostic configurator, going from 7900 to 7970 media isn't directly supported by the configurator diag initialization routine. It does say that the way to do it is to boot up DOS or RTE and copy the binary images from disk to tape. I know nothing about DOS or RTE. From what I can tell DOS should be much easier to set up quickly and require less knowledge/learning than RTE. I have no desire to learn DOS or RTE, I just want to get something up quickly and temporarily that will let me copy the diag suite from 7900 pack to 7970 mag tape. Does anyone here know how to install DOS on a 2100/7900/7906 system and what commands to use to copy the diag absolute binary images from disk to tape? I'd appreciate the quick "cheat sheet" version. Thanks! Jay West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From jwest at classiccmp.org Fri Oct 3 08:28:22 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:16 2005 Subject: HP 7906 drive lives again & stuff Message-ID: <00af01c389b2$37cbe840$033310ac@kwcorp.com> After suffering a head crash on my "new" 7906, I decided I REALLY should have taken the time to clean the filter and the blower squirrel cage and air ducts better before using it. That was done, then the drive wouldn't seek past load point. So I swapped all the cards in the drive card cage with a "spares set" and now the drive is working wonderfully again, passing all diags. It is SO nice to not rely on a single 7900 drive anymore! Word to the wise - lesson learned - never skimp on dissassembly/cleanup of an old style 14" drive. Take the time to get every last piece of dust & debris out! Over the next few weeks I will be cleaning, refurbing, and testing all the other 7906 drives I have. Once I get all working that can be made to work... I will have some known working 7906 drives available for trade, as well as some 13037 controller boxes. Might not have spares of the 13037 pca that goes in the host though. If anyone is interested, let me know. Keep in mind these drives are somewhere in the neighborhood of 200 pounds each. I may get my 7905's working too but not sure I want to give those up just yet. Also - the only way I found to clean the squirrel cage blower was to take it out and clean each fan blade by hand and with a toothbrush. The very fine dust that makes it past the secondary filter cakes on these blades and is very hard to scrub off - it's like concrete. Does anyone have any ideas here? I was thinking of soaking the blower in something to loosen the dirt, but it's unfinished metal and might rust. Any thoughts? Regards, Jay West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From wh.sudbrink at verizon.net Fri Oct 3 08:30:03 2003 From: wh.sudbrink at verizon.net (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:16 2005 Subject: Key needed for Altair 8800b In-Reply-To: <013d01c38944$598b2ae0$b008dd40@oemcomputer> Message-ID: > Does anyone have an extra key or know a source for the front > panel for the Altair Turnkey computer? Thanks in advance A college friend of mine (who was a locksmith at the time, but unfortunately is no longer) was able to disassemble the lock on my B turnkey box and produce a working key, which he claimed should be indistinguishable from the original. The cylinder key blanks he had were 30 years old. I had him engrave "reproduction" on it. Anyway, what I guess I'm saying is that, if you take it to a good locksmith, they will be able to make you a key. From jwest at classiccmp.org Fri Oct 3 08:39:39 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:16 2005 Subject: HP cable sought Message-ID: <00cd01c389b3$cb643840$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Looking for the cable that goes from an HP2100/1000 cpu to a 2895B paper tape punch. I can fabricate one from spare cables, but I'd rather get an original. Anyone have one to trade? Jay West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From allain at panix.com Fri Oct 3 08:30:31 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:16 2005 Subject: Heathkit CRT Test device. References: <1064451305.20621.6.camel@unix> <3F75ECD4.5000206@srv.net> <009901c38534$2821c040$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <000001c389b4$c56ed700$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> I'm probably tossing this tomorrow if there are no takers. j ----- Original Message ----- From: John Allain To: CCTalk Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2003 4:15 PM Subject: Heathkit CRT Test device. Today I picked up a "Heathkit CRT Tester and Rejuvenator IT-5230" in case. It has 5 standard socket adaptors for various tubes plus two more, including alligator clips, for the rest. Also 2 potentiometers, 4 meters, 6 switches, and 10 lights. Knowing what I do about some people on the list getting stuck with CRT's that are hard to replace I thought I would give this a try. Give me an offer for shipping and handling and it's yours, else I think it goes back in a week. John A. From jrkeys at concentric.net Fri Oct 3 08:48:32 2003 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:16 2005 Subject: Key needed for Altair 8800b References: <000001c3895e$f8388290$947ba8c0@p933> Message-ID: <005801c389b5$0e307b10$4308dd40@oemcomputer> That would be great, I will cover the cost of a new key and the postage to 77082. Plus let me know how much for your time. Thanks!!! :-) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Erik S. Klein" To: "'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'" Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 10:32 PM Subject: RE: Key needed for Altair 8800b > I doubt that they'd all be keyed the same, but if you'd like I can take > mine over to a locksmith and see what can be done. . . > > Erik Klein > www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum > The Vintage Computer Forum > > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Keys > Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 5:22 PM > To: cctech@classiccmp > Subject: Key needed for Altair 8800b > > Does anyone have an extra key or know a source for the front panel for > the > Altair Turnkey computer? Thanks in advance > > > > From jbmcb at hotmail.com Fri Oct 3 09:03:24 2003 From: jbmcb at hotmail.com (Jason McBrien) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:16 2005 Subject: Mac SE/30 revival References: Message-ID: That is absolutely ingenious, but if you're gonna be doing some serious vintage computer hacking you better get yourself a toolkit. I picked up a big pack of security bits with a ratchet driver for about $6.00 from Big Lots, a discount/closeout chain. I aquired a long T15 driver from somewhere (don't remember :) but Parts Express has a really nice one for $7.00. http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Product_ID=10523&DID=7 Also check CyberGuys, they have good, cheap tools, as well as the most resonable price on new SCSI and GPIB cables I've seen anywhere. > As for getting the computer open, I made my own tool. Here is what you > will need: > > a Bic Stic pen (the white round ones) > a new pencil (hex shaped type) > a T-15 driver bit > > Take the pen, and pull out the ink cartridge and the black plug at the > end, leaving you with a hollow plastic tube. Now, sharpen the end of > the pencil a little, and shove it into the pen barrel until it is > firmly lodged. Then, shove the T-15 driver bit in the other end of the > pen barrel. What you have now is a rather kludgey tool that you can use > to get the screws out from inside the handle. It _does_ work, and I > have opened many a mac this way. > > Good luck! > > Ian Primus > ian_primus@yahoo.com > > From jwest at classiccmp.org Fri Oct 3 09:30:54 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:16 2005 Subject: m4 data tape drive board sought? Message-ID: <012a01c389ba$f3b5b4c0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> heheheheeee I just have to ask, but I bet it's not around.... Anyone have the 800bpi NRZI option board for an M4 data tape drive? Jay West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From RMaxwell at atlantissi.com Fri Oct 3 10:00:17 2003 From: RMaxwell at atlantissi.com (Robert Maxwell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:16 2005 Subject: Intel Programmer IPPS format Message-ID: <9726BA9DE867D51183B900B0D0AB85F8013E486E@INETMAIL> This will meet the on-topic age requirement, at least... For programming devices like processors and EPROMS with an Intel Universal Programmer, a file format was used, called "IPPS." I need to program 8749 processors from files in IPPS format, and have no working Universal Programmer. The format appears to be a block-oriented binary, with a file header identifying the target device, and headers of indeterminate size preceding sections of binary code. Nobody I spoke to at Intel recognizes it. Does anybody remember, or have access to, documentation/data or (dreaming in Technicolor(R)) a utility to convert IPPS files into a less-unique format, say binary or Intel Hex? This would save me from having to type in hex values from an old listing to regenerate the code. Help! Bob Maxwell Tel: (905) 792-1981 x313 rmaxwell@atlantissi.com From esharpe at uswest.net Fri Oct 3 12:02:25 2003 From: esharpe at uswest.net (Ed Sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:16 2005 Subject: HP 7906 drive lives again & stuff References: <00af01c389b2$37cbe840$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <001801c389d0$1f249580$4291a8c0@aoldsl.net> it is perhaps a combo of dust and fumes deposited on there... methyl Ethel keytone... but then the cleaner will cause your liver to drop out of your body an and is a really bad cancer thing..... another thing that might be better is to take it to a clock shop where they have some wonder solvents and a large ultra sonic cleaner.... let them breathe the various fumes....... be careful with any of this stuff you use..... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jay West" To: Sent: Friday, October 03, 2003 6:28 AM Subject: HP 7906 drive lives again & stuff > After suffering a head crash on my "new" 7906, I decided I REALLY should > have taken the time to clean the filter and the blower squirrel cage and air > ducts better before using it. That was done, then the drive wouldn't seek > past load point. So I swapped all the cards in the drive card cage with a > "spares set" and now the drive is working wonderfully again, passing all > diags. It is SO nice to not rely on a single 7900 drive anymore! > > Word to the wise - lesson learned - never skimp on dissassembly/cleanup of > an old style 14" drive. Take the time to get every last piece of dust & > debris out! > > Over the next few weeks I will be cleaning, refurbing, and testing all the > other 7906 drives I have. Once I get all working that can be made to work... > I will have some known working 7906 drives available for trade, as well as > some 13037 controller boxes. Might not have spares of the 13037 pca that > goes in the host though. If anyone is interested, let me know. Keep in mind > these drives are somewhere in the neighborhood of 200 pounds each. I may get > my 7905's working too but not sure I want to give those up just yet. > > Also - the only way I found to clean the squirrel cage blower was to take it > out and clean each fan blade by hand and with a toothbrush. The very fine > dust that makes it past the secondary filter cakes on these blades and is > very hard to scrub off - it's like concrete. Does anyone have any ideas > here? I was thinking of soaking the blower in something to loosen the dirt, > but it's unfinished metal and might rust. Any thoughts? > > Regards, > > Jay West > > --- > [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > > > From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Oct 3 11:09:56 2003 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:16 2005 Subject: Connecting Atari 810's to Vaxes... References: <012a01c389ba$f3b5b4c0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <000301c389c8$c9ca2ac0$1a02a8c0@starship1> For about 13-14 years many Atari 8bit users have been able to connect their computers directly to PC's and use the PC hard drives, floppy drives, printer ports and modem ports as peripherals through a device called the SIO2PC, this little RS232 converter connects from an Atari 8bit SIO port (Serial I/O, basically a very simplistic, early version of what is now called USB... in fact one of the patent holders of the USB is the designer of the SIO bus interface....) The SIO signals are converted to standard RS-232c signals and the other end of the interface is connected to a PC serial port, the PC runs a small program in the background where you can configure how you want to share its resources with the Atari. Now the Atari can boot directly off of a PC with a bootdisk image, you are able to load files that you download off of the internet onto the PC, you can even telnet into an Atari 8bit with certain versions of the PC-side software.... SIO2PC interfaces are sold at www.sunmark.com and there are several software packages to use with it, one of the best is Steve Tuckers PROsystem. Okay, so enough of the bringing everyone up to speed part.... the reason for the above introduction is that I recently found a discovery that in 1983 one of Atari's mainframe OPS had built the very same interface that allowed Atari 810 disk drives and 8" disk drives to hook up to a VAX through one of its Serial ports and allow a Vax users to read/write Atari DOS disks. This was an internal utility that Atari engineers and programmers used to compile their software on the Atari Vax'es, then dump the code onto standard Atari DOS diskettes so they could be tested on the computers or Master images could be made and sent to have a disk product produced from the Master. I don't know if the mailing list allows attachments, so if anyone wants a copy of this .EXE, the docs and schematic, please email me directly and I'll send you an email with the ZIP file and you can put it onto your Vax and try it out. Curt From dmabry at mich.com Fri Oct 3 11:50:08 2003 From: dmabry at mich.com (Dave Mabry) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:16 2005 Subject: Intel Programmer IPPS format In-Reply-To: <9726BA9DE867D51183B900B0D0AB85F8013E486E@INETMAIL> References: <9726BA9DE867D51183B900B0D0AB85F8013E486E@INETMAIL> Message-ID: <3F7DA8C0.7050405@mich.com> Now, as is normal for me, this is hazy, but I think I remember what you are talking about. Intel used a format they called "object module format" that had header information on each block, and several possible blocks. As I recall, the MCS48 family, due to its limited memory addressibility, used the same OMF (object module format) as the 8080. Naturally, since Intel defined it, all their tools could read and write it. IPPS was the name of the software used to read and write EPROMS, etc, using Intel's iUP-201 programmer. All that being said, I think I can help you. If you don't have anything that can read and understand Intel's OMF, I do. I have a working system that can execute IPPS. There are other utilities in the Intel operating system, ISIS-II, that can also do this. I should be able to convert your OMF file to an Intel HEX format file. Intel HEX is very common and most programmers can understand it. It is also block oriented, but ascii characters rather than pure binary. Sorry to be so wordy, but bottom line is this. (into Technicolor dream mode) If you send me your OMF file I can convert it to HEX and send it back to you. Hope that will help. Dave Robert Maxwell wrote: > This will meet the on-topic age requirement, at least... > > For programming devices like processors and EPROMS with an Intel Universal > Programmer, > a file format was used, called "IPPS." I need to program 8749 processors > from files > in IPPS format, and have no working Universal Programmer. > > The format appears to be a block-oriented binary, with a file header > identifying the > target device, and headers of indeterminate size preceding sections of > binary code. > Nobody I spoke to at Intel recognizes it. > > Does anybody remember, or have access to, documentation/data or (dreaming > in Technicolor(R)) > a utility to convert IPPS files into a less-unique format, say binary or > Intel Hex? This > would save me from having to type in hex values from an old listing to > regenerate the code. > > Help! > Bob Maxwell > Tel: (905) 792-1981 x313 > rmaxwell@atlantissi.com > > . > -- Dave Mabry dmabry@mich.com Dossin Museum Underwater Research Team From jrkeys at concentric.net Fri Oct 3 12:15:33 2003 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:16 2005 Subject: What terminal to use on Altair 8800b Message-ID: <00c701c389d1$f53f6a90$6a09dd40@oemcomputer> Anyone a good suggestion on a terminal that I can hook up to the Altair Turnkey 8800b? Thanks in advance From luc at e2t.be Fri Oct 3 12:51:00 2003 From: luc at e2t.be (Luc Vande Velde) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:16 2005 Subject: Heathkit CRT Test device. In-Reply-To: <000001c389b4$c56ed700$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: Don't do that - it can very helpfull in regenerating some old terminal CRT tubes. I am using this thing in any case for this purpose gr. Luc -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]Namens John Allain Verzonden: vrijdag 3 oktober 2003 15:31 Aan: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Onderwerp: Re: Heathkit CRT Test device. I'm probably tossing this tomorrow if there are no takers. j ----- Original Message ----- From: John Allain To: CCTalk Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2003 4:15 PM Subject: Heathkit CRT Test device. Today I picked up a "Heathkit CRT Tester and Rejuvenator IT-5230" in case. It has 5 standard socket adaptors for various tubes plus two more, including alligator clips, for the rest. Also 2 potentiometers, 4 meters, 6 switches, and 10 lights. Knowing what I do about some people on the list getting stuck with CRT's that are hard to replace I thought I would give this a try. Give me an offer for shipping and handling and it's yours, else I think it goes back in a week. John A. From mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com Fri Oct 3 13:04:46 2003 From: mail.list at analog-and-digital-solutions.com (Mail List) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:16 2005 Subject: HP 7906 drive lives again & stuff In-Reply-To: <00af01c389b2$37cbe840$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20031003140255.00a7dec0@mail.analog-and-digital-solutions.com> > The very fine dust that makes it past the secondary filter cakes on these blades > and is very hard to scrub off - it's like concrete. Does anyone have any ideas here? Surplus ultrasonic cleaner with appropriate fluid? At 08:28 AM 10/3/03 -0500, you wrote: >After suffering a head crash on my "new" 7906, I decided I REALLY should >have taken the time to clean the filter and the blower squirrel cage and air >ducts better before using it. That was done, then the drive wouldn't seek >past load point. So I swapped all the cards in the drive card cage with a >"spares set" and now the drive is working wonderfully again, passing all >diags. It is SO nice to not rely on a single 7900 drive anymore! > >Word to the wise - lesson learned - never skimp on dissassembly/cleanup of >an old style 14" drive. Take the time to get every last piece of dust & >debris out! > >Over the next few weeks I will be cleaning, refurbing, and testing all the >other 7906 drives I have. Once I get all working that can be made to work... >I will have some known working 7906 drives available for trade, as well as >some 13037 controller boxes. Might not have spares of the 13037 pca that >goes in the host though. If anyone is interested, let me know. Keep in mind >these drives are somewhere in the neighborhood of 200 pounds each. I may get >my 7905's working too but not sure I want to give those up just yet. > >Also - the only way I found to clean the squirrel cage blower was to take it >out and clean each fan blade by hand and with a toothbrush. The very fine >dust that makes it past the secondary filter cakes on these blades and is >very hard to scrub off - it's like concrete. Does anyone have any ideas >here? I was thinking of soaking the blower in something to loosen the dirt, >but it's unfinished metal and might rust. Any thoughts? > >Regards, > >Jay West > >--- >[This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From eric at brouhaha.com Fri Oct 3 13:32:53 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:16 2005 Subject: HP-85 consumables. In-Reply-To: <009601c389af$1b8096c0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> References: <20031003061443.723C33D9DB@www.fastmail.fm> <009601c389af$1b8096c0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <4486.4.20.168.103.1065205973.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> "Jay West" wrote about the HP-85: > but, the tape cartridges can still be bought new. The HP-85 uses > QIC-40 tapes, the brand name being "DC-1000". Are you sure DC1000 cartridges will work? It's supposed to use DC100 cartridges, which are not QIC-40. I didn't think DC100, DC1000, and DC2000 cartridges were interchangeable, despite being the same physical size. But I haven't tried it. From jwest at classiccmp.org Fri Oct 3 13:45:15 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:16 2005 Subject: HP-85 consumables. References: <20031003061443.723C33D9DB@www.fastmail.fm><009601c389af$1b8096c0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <4486.4.20.168.103.1065205973.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <028301c389de$7c2bdbe0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Eric wrote.... > Are you sure DC1000 cartridges will work? It's supposed to use > DC100 cartridges, which are not QIC-40. I didn't think DC100, > DC1000, and DC2000 cartridges were interchangeable, despite being > the same physical size. But I haven't tried it. I am not sure DC1000 cartridges will work. Another list member said that what I need are QIC-40 tapes. When I looked those up on the web, the tape manufacturer said a DC1000 was their designation for QIC-40 tapes. I never said DC100, DC1000, and DC2000 cartridges were interchangeable... in fact they aren't. Now that you mention it, I don't recall if it was DC100 or DC1000 they said... I will check! Jay West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From allain at panix.com Fri Oct 3 13:45:57 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:16 2005 Subject: Heathkit CRT Test device. References: Message-ID: <008301c389de$95887940$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> >> I'm probably tossing this tomorrow if there are no takers. > Don't do that - it can very helpfull in regenerating some old > terminal CRT tubes. I am using this thing in any case for > this purpose OK, notice to list. Ya' got three weeks to claim it or same thing happens. Maybe a VCFw seller? John A. From wh.sudbrink at verizon.net Fri Oct 3 14:05:28 2003 From: wh.sudbrink at verizon.net (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:16 2005 Subject: What terminal to use on Altair 8800b In-Reply-To: <00c701c389d1$f53f6a90$6a09dd40@oemcomputer> Message-ID: > Anyone a good suggestion on a terminal that I can hook up to the Altair > Turnkey 8800b? Thanks in advance Mine came with an ADM3, purchased at the same time (on the same 1978 receipt) as the computer. Still works well. From eric at brouhaha.com Fri Oct 3 15:28:24 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:16 2005 Subject: HP-85 consumables. In-Reply-To: <028301c389de$7c2bdbe0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> References: <20031003061443.723C33D9DB@www.fastmail.fm><009601c389af$1b8096c0$033310ac@kwcorp.com><4486.4.20.168.103.1065205973.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <028301c389de$7c2bdbe0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <1027.4.20.168.103.1065212904.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Jay wrote: > I never said DC100, DC1000, and DC2000 cartridges were interchangeable... > in fact they aren't. I wasn't trying to put words in your mouth. I just was concerned that you might buy a bunch of DC1000 tapes that might not work. Some of the references I've found say that the HP-85 needs DC100, and some say DC100A. I'm not sure what the difference is, but I'm guessing that it may be the tape length, and possibly the thickness of the tape. Tape length of DC100A cartridges is 140 ft; some references incorrectly claim 307.5 ft, but that length didn't appear until the DC2060, and is much thinner tape. The DC1000 is 185 ft and the DC2000 is 205 ft. I can't find any info on the length of a DC100 (non-A) tape. I suppose it's possible that there was only DC100A, and that references without the A are just sloppy, but I wouldn't count on that either. The HP part number was 98200A, and a lot of web sites claim that the DC100A is the replacement, but I don't have any info I would considered to be definitive. One web site claims that their particular cleaning tapes can be used for DC100, DC1000, and DC2000 drives. I don't think that can necessarily be generalized to infer the same for all cleaning tapes. For example, different brands of LTO Ultrium 1 tape drives originally needed different cleaning tapes. Can the HP-85 format a completely blank tape? Many HP cartridge tape drives were not capable of doing that. I've got an HP-85 but have never tried using a tape with it. Eric From patrick at evocative.com Fri Oct 3 15:44:44 2003 From: patrick at evocative.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:16 2005 Subject: Heathkit CRT Test device. In-Reply-To: <008301c389de$95887940$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: John, I sent you a private message, but in case that didn't make it through, I'll take it. Please contact me off-list with terms. Best, Patrick > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of John Allain > Sent: Friday, October 03, 2003 11:46 AM > To: 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts' > Subject: Re: Heathkit CRT Test device. > > > >> I'm probably tossing this tomorrow if there are no takers. > > > Don't do that - it can very helpfull in regenerating some old > > terminal CRT tubes. I am using this thing in any case for > > this purpose > > OK, notice to list. Ya' got three weeks to claim it or same > thing happens. Maybe a VCFw seller? > > John A. > > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Oct 3 16:37:42 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:16 2005 Subject: HP 7906 drive lives again & stuff In-Reply-To: <00af01c389b2$37cbe840$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031003173742.007eaab0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 08:28 AM 10/3/03 -0500, you wrote: >After suffering a head crash on my "new" 7906, I decided I REALLY should >have taken the time to clean the filter and the blower squirrel cage and air >ducts better before using it. That was done, then the drive wouldn't seek >past load point. So I swapped all the cards in the drive card cage with a >"spares set" and now the drive is working wonderfully again, passing all >diags. It is SO nice to not rely on a single 7900 drive anymore! > >Word to the wise - lesson learned - never skimp on dissassembly/cleanup of >an old style 14" drive. Take the time to get every last piece of dust & >debris out! > >Over the next few weeks I will be cleaning, refurbing, and testing all the >other 7906 drives I have. Once I get all working that can be made to work... >I will have some known working 7906 drives available for trade, as well as >some 13037 controller boxes. Might not have spares of the 13037 pca that >goes in the host though. If anyone is interested, let me know. Keep in mind >these drives are somewhere in the neighborhood of 200 pounds each. I may get >my 7905's working too but not sure I want to give those up just yet. > >Also - the only way I found to clean the squirrel cage blower was to take it >out and clean each fan blade by hand and with a toothbrush. The very fine >dust that makes it past the secondary filter cakes on these blades and is >very hard to scrub off - it's like concrete. Does anyone have any ideas >here? I was thinking of soaking the blower in something to loosen the dirt, >but it's unfinished metal and might rust. Any thoughts? You might try "coil cleaner". It's used to clean air conditioning evaporator coils and readily removes built up dust and dirt. You just spray it on, let it sit for a bit then wash it off with water. It's used on bare metal in AC units so that SHOULDN'T be a problem but you might want to try it on some scrap first. The guys in the business call it "acid" but I think it's actually alkaline. Joe > >Regards, > >Jay West > >--- >[This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Oct 3 16:27:33 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:16 2005 Subject: HP cable sought In-Reply-To: <00cd01c389b3$cb643840$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031003172733.007dfdc0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Nope, but I have the punch and could use a cable too if you find an extra. Also need a cable for the PT reader but I don't remember the model number. Joe At 08:39 AM 10/3/03 -0500, you wrote: >Looking for the cable that goes from an HP2100/1000 cpu to a 2895B paper >tape punch. I can fabricate one from spare cables, but I'd rather get an >original. Anyone have one to trade? > >Jay West > >--- >[This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Oct 3 16:21:10 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:16 2005 Subject: PDT 11/150 In-Reply-To: <006c01c38972$baeae860$0200000a@xeon> from "Bill Machacek" at Oct 2, 3 11:53:40 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 529 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20031003/e4435c17/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Oct 3 16:22:33 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:16 2005 Subject: HP-85 consumables. In-Reply-To: <009601c389af$1b8096c0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> from "Jay West" at Oct 3, 3 08:06:06 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 213 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20031003/23605a69/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Oct 3 16:25:25 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:16 2005 Subject: Key needed for Altair 8800b In-Reply-To: from "Bill Sudbrink" at Oct 3, 3 09:30:03 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 901 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20031003/76a59fbc/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Oct 3 16:27:56 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:16 2005 Subject: Mac SE/30 revival In-Reply-To: from "Jason McBrien" at Oct 3, 3 10:03:24 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 980 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20031003/07d05138/attachment.ksh From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Oct 3 17:17:21 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:16 2005 Subject: PDT 11/150 In-Reply-To: <006c01c38972$baeae860$0200000a@xeon> from "Bill Machacek" at Oct 02, 2003 11:53:40 PM Message-ID: <200310032217.h93MHLpv004923@onyx.spiritone.com> Bill Machacek wrote: > I just rescued a Digital PDT 11/150 from going to the scarp yard. > Now that I have it, what have I got? I also got a number of 8" disks > and a VT100. Both units are very heavy units. I am not a DEC person, > but I figured these were pretty old units and I just couldn't stand the > thought of them going to the trash heap. What did you get? Basically a little PDP-11 that is mainly intended to be used in an office type of setting. I'm almost possitive that the 8" floppies should contain some version of RT-11, as I don't think anything else was used on the PDT-11/150. It's actually a very good find, they aren't that common. Somewhere I've got a PDF of a quick reference manual for the PDT-11/150 if you need it. Zane From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Oct 3 17:19:57 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:16 2005 Subject: Garage sale, DEC 3000/500 $50, HSZ40 $25, ... In-Reply-To: <3F7C572E.6010300@regenstrief.org> from "Gunther Schadow" at Oct 02, 2003 11:49:50 AM Message-ID: <200310032219.h93MJvUu004978@onyx.spiritone.com> > Am I crazy to sell a DEC 3000/500 server (desk side) for $50? I > believe it's got all the RAM it can fit and disk in and lots SCSI > plugs out. My HSZ40s go for $25 a piece. My HP9000K400 with 2xDDS2 > drives and 30 GB (?) RAID array and HP Terminal all in one rack go > for $100. > > Am I crazy or just fed up about stuff taking space in my garage? I can't really comment on the HP (though it might be a little low). The DEC3000/500 sounds about right. The HSZ40's are old enough to probably be reasonable. Zane From waltje at pdp11.nl Fri Oct 3 17:50:40 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:16 2005 Subject: Strange Qbus cards: Data Systems Design and Marconi Message-ID: Hiyas, One of the results of today's 400mi drive is a box of Qbus cards that once were in custom PDP-11 based systems in use at various locations at Marconi. Most are the usual suspects found in such systems, but there's also a bunch of weird ones: - two Data Systems Design cards.. half-height, some RAM, some PROMs and a fair bit of logic. One 16Mhz xtal. One connector (28 pins or so) - a bunch of what look to be custom-made boards, with the Marconi label and typing. M-12 and such. Does anyone know more about these? Cheers, Fred -- Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist Visit the VAXlab Project at http://www.pdp11.nl/VAXlab/ Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Sunnyvale, CA, USA From jpero at sympatico.ca Fri Oct 3 13:52:52 2003 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:16 2005 Subject: HP-85 consumables. In-Reply-To: References: <009601c389af$1b8096c0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> from "Jay West" at Oct 3, 3 08:06:06 am Message-ID: <20031003225128.BHNZ23759.tomts14-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > > No idea on the paper, I'd like to know. > > Well, thermal fax paper should work, but it'll be too wide (it's ideal > for the full-width HP thermal printers like the 9866). Feel like cutting > a roll down? > > -tony This is how cutting a width to customers' specs for paper rolls even the largest ones that weighs tonnes. Oh, I haven't seen how this type of cutter is like and how it's done on a rolled paper this large. Except I did see large chop machine slice off thick pile like 1 foot tall of paper to size or part out one into sections for bookmaking etc. Cheers, Wizard From waltje at pdp11.nl Fri Oct 3 18:04:23 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:16 2005 Subject: Looking for DEC DLV11J cab kits Message-ID: Hiyas, Looking for the cab kits for the DLV11J (4-port serial) cards, so I can set up a small LSI-11 based system. I already have a small Q/Q backplane (thx, Luc !) and will hook up a nice, small switching PSU to it... together with a cabkit and general CPU cabkit panel, this will make a nice "this is a small PDP-11 system" demo. (especially if I can find the guy who did the Qbus IDE disk driver card, as I have plenty 2G 2.5" IDE notebook disks to glue to such cards :) Cheers, Fred -- Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist Visit the VAXlab Project at http://www.pdp11.nl/VAXlab/ Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Sunnyvale, CA, USA From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Oct 3 18:03:56 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:16 2005 Subject: Strange Qbus cards: Data Systems Design and Marconi In-Reply-To: from "Fred N. van Kempen" at Oct 04, 2003 12:50:40 AM Message-ID: <200310032303.h93N3uTP005913@onyx.spiritone.com> > - two Data Systems Design cards.. half-height, some RAM, some PROMs > and a fair bit of logic. One 16Mhz xtal. One connector (28 pins > or so) Just a WAG, could these be interface boards for a DSD800 disk unit? Like I said, just a guess. Zane From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Oct 3 18:21:38 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:16 2005 Subject: Looking for DEC DLV11J cab kits In-Reply-To: from "Fred N. van Kempen" at Oct 04, 2003 01:04:23 AM Message-ID: <200310032321.h93NLcoa006594@onyx.spiritone.com> > Looking for the cab kits for the DLV11J (4-port serial) cards, Good luck! I had trouble getting one out of a dealer as I recall (at least I think I finally got *one* for my /73. > so I can set up a small LSI-11 based system. I already have a > small Q/Q backplane (thx, Luc !) and will hook up a nice, small Sweet, I've always wanted to get my hands on one of these. > (especially if I can find the guy who did the Qbus IDE disk > driver card, as I have plenty 2G 2.5" IDE notebook disks to > glue to such cards :) Is this the Russian board? If so I've got the plans for it on my FTP site. You might have better luck finding the necessary parts that those of us in the US. A SCSI controller an a nice 3.5" 1" high drive is still pretty small. Or maybe a SCSI-to-IDE bridge could let you use a Laptop drive. Zane From ian_primus at yahoo.com Fri Oct 3 18:55:56 2003 From: ian_primus at yahoo.com (Ian Primus) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:16 2005 Subject: Mac SE/30 revival In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <21791196-F5FD-11D7-91F9-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> I eventually did get the proper tool, and things do definitely go easier with the correct tool, but I still have two of my little homemade ones here, they come in handy when I forget where I put the real one. Also, considering that the compact macs only have two screws to remove that need that long screwdriver, you can get by with the homemade tool pretty well, since the important part (the driver bit) is still technically the proper tool and fits the screw, the only disadvantage is that you don't have a great deal of leverage with a pencil... Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com On Friday, October 3, 2003, at 10:03 AM, Jason McBrien wrote: > That is absolutely ingenious, but if you're gonna be doing some serious > vintage computer hacking you better get yourself a toolkit. I picked > up a > big pack of security bits with a ratchet driver for about $6.00 from > Big > Lots, a discount/closeout chain. I aquired a long T15 driver from > somewhere > (don't remember :) but Parts Express has a really nice one for $7.00. > http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Product_ID=10523&DID=7 > Also check CyberGuys, they have good, cheap tools, as well as the most > resonable price on new SCSI and GPIB cables I've seen anywhere. > > >> As for getting the computer open, I made my own tool. Here is what you >> will need: >> >> a Bic Stic pen (the white round ones) >> a new pencil (hex shaped type) >> a T-15 driver bit >> >> Take the pen, and pull out the ink cartridge and the black plug at the >> end, leaving you with a hollow plastic tube. Now, sharpen the end of >> the pencil a little, and shove it into the pen barrel until it is >> firmly lodged. Then, shove the T-15 driver bit in the other end of the >> pen barrel. What you have now is a rather kludgey tool that you can >> use >> to get the screws out from inside the handle. It _does_ work, and I >> have opened many a mac this way. >> >> Good luck! >> >> Ian Primus >> ian_primus@yahoo.com >> >> > From eric at brouhaha.com Fri Oct 3 19:08:49 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:16 2005 Subject: Strange Qbus cards: Data Systems Design and Marconi In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2330.4.20.168.103.1065226129.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> "Fred N. van Kempen" asks about: > - two Data Systems Design cards.. half-height, some RAM, some PROMs > and a fair bit of logic. One 16Mhz xtal. One connector (28 pins > or so) Most likely one of their floppy subsystem controllers, possibly for a DSD 440. It's software-compatible with an RX02, but you have to have their drive box as the cable interface isn't compatible with anything else. From dbetz at xlisper.mv.com Fri Oct 3 19:11:27 2003 From: dbetz at xlisper.mv.com (David Betz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:16 2005 Subject: PDT 11/150 In-Reply-To: <200310032217.h93MHLpv004923@onyx.spiritone.com> Message-ID: <4BEDE382-F5FF-11D7-BC87-0003937B82DA@xlisper.mv.com> I have two PDT-11/150s. I bought one as a home computer back when I worked at DEC and picked up a second when a friend (who also bought one while he worked at DEC) was cleaning out his basement. I have all of the original documentation including the original RT-11 version 4 distribution disks. If you need me to look anything up I'd be happy to. On Friday, October 3, 2003, at 06:17 PM, Zane H. Healy wrote: > Bill Machacek wrote: >> I just rescued a Digital PDT 11/150 from going to the scarp yard. >> Now that I have it, what have I got? I also got a number of 8" disks >> and a VT100. Both units are very heavy units. I am not a DEC person, >> but I figured these were pretty old units and I just couldn't stand >> the >> thought of them going to the trash heap. > > What did you get? Basically a little PDP-11 that is mainly intended > to be > used in an office type of setting. I'm almost possitive that the 8" > floppies should contain some version of RT-11, as I don't think > anything > else was used on the PDT-11/150. It's actually a very good find, they > aren't that common. Somewhere I've got a PDF of a quick reference > manual > for the PDT-11/150 if you need it. > > Zane > From ian_primus at yahoo.com Fri Oct 3 19:24:36 2003 From: ian_primus at yahoo.com (Ian Primus) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:16 2005 Subject: ASR33 Teletype interfacing Message-ID: <223808C2-F601-11D7-91F9-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> I have been attempting to get my ASR33 teletype connected to something and communicating, but so far I have not been successful. I have built the interface here : http://www.daedalus.co.nz/~don/computing/20mahack.html , but it didn't seem to work at all. I connected the teletype to a PC clone running Linux. I set the baud rate to 110 and tested it with a DEC VT100 set to 110 first, to make sure that the PC was communicating over the serial port properly. Then, I plugged in the teletype in place of the terminal with the little kludged adapter, crossed my fingers and turned to knob to the left. The teletype just rattled, not printing anything, and nothing from the keyboard printed either. Then, I turned the knob to the right. The teletype works fine, just as it had before. I can type on the paper, punch tape, etc. Before, when I was just testing the teletype without connecting it to anything, I got the exact same results - with the knob to the left, it just rattles, almost like "Break" is held down. When the knob is turned to the right, it works like a very heavy, loud, electric typewriter, and I can punch tape. On my teletype, the knob isn't labeled, but I am assuming that the knob must be Line/Off/Local. Does anyone have any ideas on how I can get this to talk to something? I don't know a lot about teletypes, but I downloaded the wiring diagrams from pdp8.net, and have been trying to figure it out. I think I am connecting it to the correct terminals on the barrier strip, based on what the wiring diagrams say, but then again, I might have something wrong. One problem is that I don't know what the Teletype is _supposed_ to do. I have never seen one operational, so I don't know if the constant rattleing if not connected is normal or not. There might be something wrong with it that I don't know, but chances are, it's just something I am doing wrong. I got suggestions to try using an old Apple Serial card, or an original IBM XT card to connect the teletype to, but I have neither. I have several Super Serial Card II's, as well as several early clone XT serial cards, but I don't think that they will work. At this point, I don't really care what I connect the teletype to, I would just like to get it to do something, and verify that it works. Eventually, I would like to build an RS232 adapter that would allow me to use the teletype on PC clone hardware, Pr1me hardware, whatever. I understand that the teletype uses a 20mA current loop, but I'm afraid that I don't really know anything about current loop technology. Anyone have some schematics for a true 20mA to RS232 adapter? Something tells me that this little kludge I found on the 'net probably isn't the best or most reliable way to do this. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks! Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Oct 3 19:26:30 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:16 2005 Subject: Help? AMI S6800 computer/Flex Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031003202630.007bed70@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Several weeks ago I picked up an early 6800 based computer that came from an original member of the Home Brew Computer Club. The computer is based on S6800 prototyping boards that were purchased as part of a group purchase through the HBCC. I just finished posting a webpage about the computer and what little I know about it along with pictures of chassis and all the cards. Please take a look and let me know if you can shed any light on the computer or it's history or the group purchase. BTW this computer ran Flex and I did get one disk with it containing Flex. Joe From ian_primus at yahoo.com Fri Oct 3 19:31:39 2003 From: ian_primus at yahoo.com (Ian Primus) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:17 2005 Subject: HP-85 consumables. In-Reply-To: <20031003225128.BHNZ23759.tomts14-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: <1EA5CF56-F602-11D7-91F9-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> On Friday, October 3, 2003, at 02:52 PM, jpero@sympatico.ca wrote: >>> No idea on the paper, I'd like to know. >> >> Well, thermal fax paper should work, but it'll be too wide (it's ideal >> for the full-width HP thermal printers like the 9866). Feel like >> cutting >> a roll down? >> >> -tony > > This is how cutting a width to customers' specs for paper rolls even > the largest ones that weighs tonnes. > > Oh, I haven't seen how this type of cutter is like and how it's done > on a rolled paper this large. Except I did see large chop machine > slice off thick pile like 1 foot tall of paper to size or part out > one into sections for bookmaking etc. > > Cheers, > > Wizard > We have one of those machines in at work. It can cut an entire ream of paper at once, and I had asked about cutting a roll of paper once (for teletype tape) and they said that it wouldn't be a problem, provided that the roll wasn't huge, and that the core of the roll was cardboard or paper (not metal). If you bought some thermal fax paper, you should be able to find some place that can trim it for you (maybe Kinkos's?). Most fax paper is in pretty small rolls of about 2 inches in diameter, so they should be able to do it. Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Oct 3 19:44:20 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:17 2005 Subject: Strange Qbus cards: Data Systems Design and Marconi In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031003204420.007d4d20@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Fred, I can't tell you much about them but I recently picked up about 350 8" floppy disks that came from Marconi. They were used on PDP-11s that was part of circuit board test stations. That's where the disks that I sent to Al came from. He's reading them and is supposed to archive the usefull software. The computers were stripped before I got there but I found some of the circuit cards in the board scrap. A few were DEC but most were custom made. I didn't take any of the custom ones and I don't remember if they were made by Marconi or not. They were DSD hard drives on the systems. One of the things that Al (and others) wanted were the drivers for the DSD drives. I found four or five of the drives but no interface cards. That was the DSD drives that I was asking about here on the list several weeks ago. FWIW some of the disks had a Marconi address somewhere in California. In fact, I think it might have been Sunnyvale. I suspect that you got part of the same systems. Joe At 12:50 AM 10/4/03 +0200, you wrote: >Hiyas, > >One of the results of today's 400mi drive is a box of Qbus cards that >once were in custom PDP-11 based systems in use at various locations >at Marconi. Most are the usual suspects found in such systems, but >there's also a bunch of weird ones: > >- two Data Systems Design cards.. half-height, some RAM, some PROMs > and a fair bit of logic. One 16Mhz xtal. One connector (28 pins > or so) > >- a bunch of what look to be custom-made boards, with the Marconi > label and typing. M-12 and such. > >Does anyone know more about these? > >Cheers, > Fred >-- >Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist >Visit the VAXlab Project at http://www.pdp11.nl/VAXlab/ >Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ >Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Sunnyvale, CA, USA > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Oct 3 19:46:46 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:17 2005 Subject: HP-85 consumables. In-Reply-To: <20031003225128.BHNZ23759.tomts14-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> References: <009601c389af$1b8096c0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031003204646.007b2c40@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 06:52 PM 10/3/03 +0000, you wrote: >> > No idea on the paper, I'd like to know. >> >> Well, thermal fax paper should work, but it'll be too wide (it's ideal >> for the full-width HP thermal printers like the 9866). Feel like cutting >> a roll down? >> >> -tony > >This is how cutting a width to customers' specs for paper rolls even >the largest ones that weighs tonnes. ????? Just buy the normal consumer sized rolls (~4" diameter) and cut them with a bandsaw. I know a guy that's cut down plenty of it for use on a HP calculator. It's uses paper about 1 1/4" wide and 1" diameter. Joe > >Oh, I haven't seen how this type of cutter is like and how it's done >on a rolled paper this large. Except I did see large chop machine >slice off thick pile like 1 foot tall of paper to size or part out >one into sections for bookmaking etc. > >Cheers, > >Wizard > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Oct 3 19:49:40 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:17 2005 Subject: Strange Qbus cards: Data Systems Design and Marconi In-Reply-To: <2330.4.20.168.103.1065226129.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031003204940.007d3d70@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 05:08 PM 10/3/03 -0700, you wrote: >"Fred N. van Kempen" asks about: >> - two Data Systems Design cards.. half-height, some RAM, some PROMs >> and a fair bit of logic. One 16Mhz xtal. One connector (28 pins >> or so) > >Most likely one of their floppy subsystem controllers, possibly for >a DSD 440. It's software-compatible with an RX02, but you have to have >their drive box as the cable interface isn't compatible with anything >else. I just scrapped several DSD drives. I asked about them here on the list and while there was lots of discussion, no one seemed interested in the drives. They didn't go to waste though. The floppy drives are spares for my Intel systems and I'm saving the 8" hard drives for use in Compupros and the like. Joe > > From r_a_feldman at hotmail.com Fri Oct 3 20:11:38 2003 From: r_a_feldman at hotmail.com (Robert Feldman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:17 2005 Subject: DEC DE450-CA Network cards Message-ID: I came across three DEC Etherworks Turbo PCI 10 Combo cards (DE450-CA) (vintage 1995, so not quite OT) with manuals and software. Free for postage (one or all) from Chicago. Reply to r_a_feldman@hotmail.com. _________________________________________________________________ Share your photos without swamping your Inbox. Get Hotmail Extra Storage today! http://join.msn.com/?PAGE=features/es From lbickley at bickleywest.com Fri Oct 3 16:44:45 2003 From: lbickley at bickleywest.com (Lyle Bickley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:17 2005 Subject: HP-85 consumables. References: <20031003061443.723C33D9DB@www.fastmail.fm><009601c389af$1b8096c0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <4486.4.20.168.103.1065205973.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <007401c389f7$910e8080$4daa3a41@VAIO> I've got a couple of HP-85's and have found that HP98200A or DC100A tapes are the only ones to work reliably. I tried some "Savin" DC100A look-alikes which "almost" worked - but apparently had the wrong magnetic coating. [Also, you have to make sure you HP-85 cartridge drive is O.K. - which usually means you have "refurbished" its capstan with a new rubber and/or plastic sleeve.] Regarding paper - I have occasionally found the thermal paper (HP 82931A) available on eBay. I have also found some "lurking" amongst the POS thermal paper supplies of stores/warehouses - but it is NOT easy to find, being long discontinued. You can substitute POS thermal paper if you get the right size (I'm in the Sierra's right now and not near my office to measure the proper size - it just has to be very slightly less width that the printer guides). Cheers, Lyle Bickley Consulting West Inc. Mountain View, CA 94040 650-428-0621 "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero" ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Smith" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Friday, October 03, 2003 11:32 AM Subject: Re: HP-85 consumables. > "Jay West" wrote about the HP-85: > > but, the tape cartridges can still be bought new. The HP-85 uses > > QIC-40 tapes, the brand name being "DC-1000". > > Are you sure DC1000 cartridges will work? It's supposed to use > DC100 cartridges, which are not QIC-40. I didn't think DC100, > DC1000, and DC2000 cartridges were interchangeable, despite being > the same physical size. But I haven't tried it. From jpl15 at panix.com Fri Oct 3 20:51:19 2003 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:17 2005 Subject: ASR33 Teletype interfacing In-Reply-To: <223808C2-F601-11D7-91F9-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> References: <223808C2-F601-11D7-91F9-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> Message-ID: HWat you call 'rattling' sounds suspiciously like "running open" - the selector magnets in the TTY have no current applied across them, hence the machine is always 'spacing', or rather, all the internal parts are rotating, rather than waiting quietly for the next pulse. I don't see in the Daedalus site exactly how the 20 (or 60) millamps of current is going to be supplied from a regular RS232 port... Your 33 has a "local loop supply" giving current to the selector magnets when you have the function knob in LOCAL position - then, as you say, it becomes a heavy, noisy, accessorized typewriter. When you switch the knob to LINE, it is expecting to be supplied with "loop supply current" from it's communication line. This current, normally 'on', is broken by the pulses representing the data, and thus the selector magnets operate the mechanism to print each character as it comes from the line. You really oughta should get a copy of the ASR33 manuals - they're pretty common, but first you need to somehow supply loop current to your TTY... this requires the right kind of interface - especially if you hook it up to a PC to test, otherwise, you're liable to drive quite a high voltage back into the PC and kill it dead - while the ASR33 just sits there and laughs. Or 'rattles', as the case may be... Fear not! You are quite close to getting it working... and if it types, punches, and reads back tape sucessfully, then the machine sounds like it's in pretty good shape and ready to work. Cheers John From TRASH3 at splab.cas.neu.edu Fri Oct 3 21:01:48 2003 From: TRASH3 at splab.cas.neu.edu (TRASH3@splab.cas.neu.edu) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:17 2005 Subject: Strange Qbus cards: Data Systems Design and Marconi Message-ID: <031003220148.10f60@splab.cas.neu.edu> The DSD 880 Qbus subsystem used two different cards, the 8832 and the 8836. The connector near the handle is 26 pins. For the 8836, the 16Mhz crystal is in location G9, with the model number of the board on the edge above that, for instance 808836-05 rev K. There are socketed 24 pin dips in row e, and headers for programming in D4 and F5. There isn't really any special software for basic use, but if you want the double sided use of the floppies, then you have to either use their drivers, or patch your own. The same goes for utilizing more than the 2-RL02 emulation feature, you have to patch for more logical units. The board has a bootstrap for either the floppy or the hard drive. I could look up what is in the 8832, but it is probably pretty close. Also, the dual height board for the floppy-only DSD440 subsystem is similar, but I have the board for that at work. I still use a couple of the DSD880s. The system came with a diagnostic floppy which complemented the front panel, but I haven't used it for a long time. We used to use the DSD880 along with a VT103 and 11/23 in test equipment that a company I previously worked for sold. Hope that helps, let me know if you (or somebody else) needs/wants more info on the 880 series. Joe Heck, K1LBG From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Oct 3 20:58:24 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:17 2005 Subject: ASR33 Teletype interfacing In-Reply-To: <223808C2-F601-11D7-91F9-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> from "Ian Primus" at Oct 3, 3 08:24:36 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1764 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20031004/01181bdc/attachment.ksh From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org Fri Oct 3 21:30:34 2003 From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:17 2005 Subject: Original IBM PC, Apple Macintosh cube, interest? Message-ID: <3F7E30CA.5080204@aurora.regenstrief.org> Hi, I keep seeing original IBM PCs and Apple Macintosh cubes and although it's tempting to snatch one for myself this small stuff isn't really my collector's specialty and I have not enogh room anyway. But thought that may be some people here think it's interesting enough to be saved. Since this stuff is shippable and if there is real big interest I might go through the hassle and pick such things up ship them. regards, -Gunther From jwest at classiccmp.org Fri Oct 3 22:50:01 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:17 2005 Subject: hp terminal pictures? Message-ID: <002301c38a2a$97089f10$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> I'm looking for a particular HP terminal. Don't know the model, but I know what it looks like. I know it is a 2600 series terminal, something like a 2621, 2622, 2623, 2624, 2627, 2640, 2644, 2645... but not sure which one. I'm not having any luck googling for pictures of HP terminals so I can find the one I'm looking for. Anyone know where there's pics? Jay West From liste at artware.qc.ca Fri Oct 3 23:12:08 2003 From: liste at artware.qc.ca (liste@artware.qc.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:17 2005 Subject: Mac SE/30 revived! woot! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Thanks to Ian Primus, who pointed me to http://www.biwa.ne.jp/~shamada/fullmac/repairEng.html. I removed, contacts with "control cleaner" and reseated all the SIMMs (ROM and RAM). Half of the RAM looked like an upgrade (they have 9 rather then 8 chips and said AZen Memory Upgrade on them). So I only put in the other half, but put them into the wrong bank. I was rewarded by a rising, cheary tune but it wouldn't get past the zebra screen. Ooops. Pull it apart again, notice that I'd put RAM into wrong bank. But *all* the RAM back. Get the happy-mac-BONG. Now it boots up into system 7.5.5 perfectly. Woot woot! Now I go hunt for an SE PDS ethernet card. (Anyone have a spare?) -Philip From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Oct 3 23:22:35 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:17 2005 Subject: hp terminal pictures? In-Reply-To: <002301c38a2a$97089f10$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031004002235.007dc5d0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 10:50 PM 10/3/03 -0500, you wrote: >I'm looking for a particular HP terminal. Don't know the model, but I know >what it looks like. I know it is a 2600 series terminal, something like a >2621, 2622, 2623, 2624, 2627, 2640, 2644, 2645... but not sure which one. > >I'm not having any luck googling for pictures of HP terminals so I can find >the one I'm looking for. Anyone know where there's pics? I can take some. Joe > >Jay West > > From cb at mythtech.net Fri Oct 3 23:44:04 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:17 2005 Subject: Mac SE/30 revived! woot! Message-ID: >Now I go hunt for an SE PDS ethernet card. (Anyone have a spare?) I believe the SE and the SE/30 use a different PDS slot ethernet card. The SE/30 card is compatible with the IIsi, but I do not think it is compatible with the SE. However, that doesn't mean you can just buy an ethernet card for the IIsi and use it in the SE/30. The IIsi also supports NuBus ethernet cards via a PDS to NuBus adaptor card. That style can't be used in the SE/30. So double the cards before you buy yourself the wrong card. (and BTW: I've seen the SE/30 cards on ebay for around $10.00) -chris From cb at mythtech.net Fri Oct 3 23:45:34 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:17 2005 Subject: Original IBM PC, Apple Macintosh cube, interest? Message-ID: >Hi, I keep seeing original IBM PCs and Apple Macintosh cubes and >although it's tempting to snatch one for myself this small stuff >isn't really my collector's specialty and I have not enogh room >anyway. But thought that may be some people here think it's >interesting enough to be saved. Since this stuff is shippable >and if there is real big interest I might go through the hassle >and pick such things up ship them. If you are talking about the G4 Cube, then I would want one if the price is right. Are you talking about those, or are you refering to the old classic Macs that have the built in 9 inch black and white screen? (the old Macs would be more the era of the IBM PC) -chris From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org Fri Oct 3 23:50:22 2003 From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:17 2005 Subject: Original IBM PC, Apple Macintosh cube, interest? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3F7E518E.9060603@aurora.regenstrief.org> Well, I had at least 4 people asking me individually what the Max cubes go for these days. And I do not know the answer. I could dig them out somewhere (that is, last week I could, now it may be too late ... but I might find one again.) Interesting, noone wanted the original IBM PC, even though it probably has a "Color Graphics Adapter" (woa! with 40 characters per line!) and the Mac was just B/W right? So, what would people pay for a Mac or an original PC? -Gunther From cb at mythtech.net Sat Oct 4 00:09:02 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:17 2005 Subject: Original IBM PC, Apple Macintosh cube, interest? Message-ID: >Well, I had at least 4 people asking me individually what the Max >cubes go for these days. And I do not know the answer. If you are talking about the original Mac (the 128k Mac), then I believe they are pushing the $100 mark if they are complete with keyboard and mouse. Software, manuals, and guided tour audio tapes will push the price higher. I'm not a pricing expert, that just seems to be what I've seen them hover around on ebay and other trading lists. Of course, sometimes they go much lower... I picked on up not long ago for $25 shipped to me. I only bought it because it was offered on a list for a few months and no one wanted to buy it at all, and the owner was threatening to throw it out. -chris From nico at farumdata.dk Sat Oct 4 00:59:40 2003 From: nico at farumdata.dk (Nico de Jong) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:17 2005 Subject: Sv: ASR33 Teletype interfacing Message-ID: <001a01c38a3c$b38f7520$2301a8c0@win98.farumdata.dk> >I have been attempting to get my ASR33 teletype connected to something >and communicating, but so far I have not been successful. I have built >the interface here : You'd probably better off in a ham related group. For them, it is a very easy thing Nico (OZ1BMC) From pat at purdueriots.com Sat Oct 4 01:43:41 2003 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:17 2005 Subject: Configuring a CMD CQD-220/TM Message-ID: <200310040143.41561.pat@purdueriots.com> I've got a CMD CQD-220/TM that I'm trying to get set up. I've placed it into a VAXstation 3200, and it shows up when I do a 'show qbus' and 'show dev' at the SRM prompt. At some point I was able to find a list of jumper settings on the board, and instructions to access the config menus on the board via the SRM console, but alas, no more. Does anyone have configuration info for this board? -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ From vance at neurotica.com Sat Oct 4 01:58:46 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:17 2005 Subject: AlphaServer 4000/4100 Message-ID: I was perusing some old DEC brochures, and I read that the AlphaServer 4000 can be field upgraded to an AlphaServer 4100. How does one go about doing that? Peace... Sridhar From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Sat Oct 4 03:19:35 2003 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:17 2005 Subject: Looking for DEC DLV11J cab kits In-Reply-To: ; from waltje@pdp11.nl on Sat, Oct 04, 2003 at 01:04:23 CEST References: Message-ID: <20031004101935.G81944@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 2003.10.04 01:04 Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > Looking for the cab kits for the DLV11J (4-port serial) cards, Cable, connectors, soldering Iron? Here is the pinout: Pin 1 UART Clk (in or out) 2 Signal ground 3 Transmit Data + 4 Transmit Data - 5 Signal Ground 6 INDEX (no pin) 7 Receive Data - 8 Receive Data + 9 Signal Ground 10 +12V through fuse when using -KA (current loop) Connect pins 8, 3, and 2 for your standard 3 wire RS-232 cable. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From chejmw at acsu.buffalo.edu Sat Oct 4 03:54:42 2003 From: chejmw at acsu.buffalo.edu (James M. Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:17 2005 Subject: Sv: ASR33 Teletype interfacing References: <001a01c38a3c$b38f7520$2301a8c0@win98.farumdata.dk> Message-ID: <3F7E8AD2.79A7AFDE@acsu.buffalo.edu> Hello Fellow Listers, I am indeed new to the list, but also very glad I joined it/found out about it. I have 1 each 11/23 Dec system, and 1 each 11/24 system. The 23 system is setup with 2 pairs of RX-02 floppy drives, the 24 is setup with a second source HD system, with a removable disk pack, I think 10 MB, not sure. Along with a large plethora of micro-computers of the S-100 and desk-top type. Used to be a field applications engineer doing hardware installs and setups of Dec equipment. My memory tends to wander all over the place but here is an attempt at the subject. For the ASR-33 interface The DLV11 boards had a strapping arrangement to connect to the the ASR-33. First a few questions. What is the state of the TTY before you connect it to the DEC system? As in when in "LOCAL" mode can you type and see the characters that you are typing? When you look at the cabling from the ASR-33 how many wires are in this cable, this determines if it is setup for current loop operation, or if it has an internal RS-232 or RS-488 interface (different setups). Next if you have it connected correctly to the DLV11 is it indeed on the first I/O port on the board? That would would be the "Old Master Console" for the system administrator. If you could answer those questions I may be able to guide you towards getting the TTY connected. Jim WB2FCN http://eshop1.chem.buffalo.edu Nico de Jong wrote: > > >I have been attempting to get my ASR33 teletype connected to something > >and communicating, but so far I have not been successful. I have built > >the interface here : > > You'd probably better off in a ham related group. For them, it is a very easy thing > > Nico (OZ1BMC) From rhahm at nycap.rr.com Sat Oct 4 07:12:45 2003 From: rhahm at nycap.rr.com (RHahm) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:17 2005 Subject: HP-85 Tape source Message-ID: Here is a source for new tapes. They cost about $20 each. If anyone has a better source let me know. http://www.athana.com/html/minicart.html From jrkeys at concentric.net Sat Oct 4 08:46:15 2003 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:17 2005 Subject: Found the HP 41CV Message-ID: <000701c38a7d$e2b95e10$920cdd40@oemcomputer> Yesterday I went back to the thrift were I got the manuals for a hp 41CV and under the front counter there was the 41CV in it's carrying case. It was missing the battery so I got it for $2.99. From fmc at reanimators.org Sat Oct 4 09:01:15 2003 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:17 2005 Subject: hp terminal pictures? In-Reply-To: <002301c38a2a$97089f10$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> (Jay West's message of "Fri, 3 Oct 2003 22:50:01 -0500") References: <002301c38a2a$97089f10$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <200310041401.h94E1FhR016647@daemonweed.reanimators.org> "Jay West" wrote: > I'm looking for a particular HP terminal. Don't know the model, but I know > what it looks like. I know it is a 2600 series terminal, something like a > 2621, 2622, 2623, 2624, 2627, 2640, 2644, 2645... but not sure which one. Does the terminal body look like E.T.'s head? If so, that's a 262X. Does it have slots with plug-in cards in its base? If so, that's a 264X. If you can describe the feature set that may help narrow it down further. -Frank McConnell From waltje at pdp11.nl Sat Oct 4 09:33:01 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:17 2005 Subject: PDT 11/150 In-Reply-To: <200310030900.35001.jcwren@jcwren.com> Message-ID: JC writes: > This is how addictions start, Bill. Oh yes, this *sure* is a good way to get dragged into it.. --f From rhudson at cnonline.net Sat Oct 4 09:33:46 2003 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:17 2005 Subject: Found the HP 41CV In-Reply-To: <000701c38a7d$e2b95e10$920cdd40@oemcomputer> Message-ID: AAARRRRGGGHHH!!!!! 2.99!!!!! :^) cool On Saturday, October 4, 2003, at 08:46 AM, Keys wrote: > Yesterday I went back to the thrift were I got the manuals for a hp > 41CV and > under the front counter there was the 41CV in it's carrying case. It > was > missing the battery so I got it for $2.99. > > From allain at panix.com Sat Oct 4 09:46:40 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:17 2005 Subject: hp terminal pictures? References: <002301c38a2a$97089f10$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <007301c38a86$527d4ce0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> 262x and 264x'es are pretty different. See http://www.digidome.nl/hewlett_packard.htm Here's a good search... 44 results: http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=%2B%22hewlett+packard%22%2B2647a and some of us can supply further pictures from our collections. Does yours do graphics? Have tape drives? What makes the one you're looking for distinct? John A. From esharpe at uswest.net Sat Oct 4 11:15:41 2003 From: esharpe at uswest.net (Ed Sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:17 2005 Subject: hp terminal pictures? References: <002301c38a2a$97089f10$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> <200310041401.h94E1FhR016647@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: <002101c38a92$c223f2e0$79f39bac@aoldsl.net> THEN THEE WAS THE EARLY ONE THAT WAS JUST A REPAINTED DATAPOINT TERMINAL I HAD AN 8008 PROCESSOR INSIDE. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frank McConnell" To: Sent: Saturday, October 04, 2003 7:01 AM Subject: Re: hp terminal pictures? > "Jay West" wrote: > > I'm looking for a particular HP terminal. Don't know the model, but I know > > what it looks like. I know it is a 2600 series terminal, something like a > > 2621, 2622, 2623, 2624, 2627, 2640, 2644, 2645... but not sure which one. > > Does the terminal body look like E.T.'s head? If so, that's a 262X. > > Does it have slots with plug-in cards in its base? If so, that's a > 264X. > > If you can describe the feature set that may help narrow it down > further. > > -Frank McConnell > > From waltje at pdp11.nl Sat Oct 4 10:19:42 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:17 2005 Subject: PDT 11/150 In-Reply-To: <006c01c38972$baeae860$0200000a@xeon> Message-ID: On Thu, 2 Oct 2003, Bill Machacek wrote: > I just rescued a Digital PDT 11/150 from going to the > scarp yard. Now that I have it, what have I got? I also > got a number of 8" disks and a VT100. As JC already pointed out, this could start you into a very bad addiction.... best thing to do is to get rid of it as soon as possible... give it to someone else, who is already addicted... no harm done... (hint: me! me! me! ;-) > Both units are very heavy units. Ohyeah... it can hurt your back, too... we wouldn't want THAT to happen, now would we? *evil grin* --me -- Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist Visit the VAXlab Project at http://www.pdp11.nl/VAXlab/ Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Sunnyvale, CA, USA From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Sat Oct 4 10:52:37 2003 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:17 2005 Subject: Original IBM PC, Apple Macintosh cube, interest? In-Reply-To: <3F7E518E.9060603@aurora.regenstrief.org> Message-ID: <006a01c38a8f$88d56a30$947ba8c0@p933> The original Macs (that just say "Macintosh" on the rear label) are worth anywhere from near nothing to a couple of hundred eBay Dollars depending on condition and completeness. IBM PCs are worth maybe half of that, again depending on condition and completeness. The original 64K motherboard PCs are worth a bit more. If it has 4116s, 0-64K silk-screened on the board and a black power supply and it boots to BASIC 1.0 then you've got an original 64K PC. With the Guide to Operations, BASIC and DOS manuals they are worth more. With the original packaging more still. Good luck! Erik Klein www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum The Vintage Computer Form -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Gunther Schadow Sent: Friday, October 03, 2003 9:50 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Original IBM PC, Apple Macintosh cube, interest? Well, I had at least 4 people asking me individually what the Max cubes go for these days. And I do not know the answer. I could dig them out somewhere (that is, last week I could, now it may be too late ... but I might find one again.) Interesting, noone wanted the original IBM PC, even though it probably has a "Color Graphics Adapter" (woa! with 40 characters per line!) and the Mac was just B/W right? So, what would people pay for a Mac or an original PC? -Gunther From jpl15 at panix.com Sat Oct 4 11:24:17 2003 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:17 2005 Subject: Sv: ASR33 Teletype interfacing In-Reply-To: <001a01c38a3c$b38f7520$2301a8c0@win98.farumdata.dk> References: <001a01c38a3c$b38f7520$2301a8c0@win98.farumdata.dk> Message-ID: On Sat, 4 Oct 2003, Nico de Jong wrote: > > You'd probably better off in a ham related group. For them, it is a very easy thing Welll.... that *may* be true over there in Sunny Scandanavia, but here on this side of the Big Salt Groundplane - most Hams would think that "ASR33" is the model number of some new 3-band handheld transciver... or maybe the grid-square of the latest obscure DX Island... ;} Truthfully, I can't think of a better place on the Net to get accurate (and experienced) info on legacy data communication devices than here, or *maybe* over on the Greenkeys maillist - although the topic there tends to top out (chronologically) at the Model 28. Sadly. a lot of Hams here in 'Murikka wouldn't know which end of a hot soldering iron was the one that burns you when you grab it... Cheers (and FB OM TNX FR NICE QSO) John KB6SCO From vcf at siconic.com Sat Oct 4 11:29:06 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:17 2005 Subject: HP-85 Tape source In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 4 Oct 2003, RHahm wrote: > Here is a source for new tapes. They cost about $20 each. If anyone has a > better source let me know. > > http://www.athana.com/html/minicart.html Wow! These guys carry all sorts of old media, like rigid disk packs, 5.25" and 8" floppies, 1/2" reel-to-reel, etc. Very cool! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Oct 4 11:45:13 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:17 2005 Subject: Original IBM PC, Apple Macintosh cube, interest? In-Reply-To: <3F7E518E.9060603@aurora.regenstrief.org> from "Gunther Schadow" at Oct 3, 3 11:50:22 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 365 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20031004/5a5213ef/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Oct 4 11:43:12 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:17 2005 Subject: HP-85 consumables. In-Reply-To: <007401c389f7$910e8080$4daa3a41@VAIO> from "Lyle Bickley" at Oct 3, 3 02:44:45 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1213 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20031004/f4372523/attachment.ksh From nico at farumdata.dk Sat Oct 4 12:39:50 2003 From: nico at farumdata.dk (Nico de Jong) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:17 2005 Subject: Sv: ASR33 Teletype interfacing References: <001a01c38a3c$b38f7520$2301a8c0@win98.farumdata.dk> Message-ID: <001001c38a9e$84bdc140$2101a8c0@farumdata.dk> > > > > > You'd probably better off in a ham related group. For them, it is a very easy thing > > Welll.... that *may* be true over there in Sunny Scandanavia, but here > on this side of the Big Salt Groundplane - most Hams would think that > "ASR33" is the model number of some new 3-band handheld transciver... or > maybe the grid-square of the latest obscure DX Island... ;} > > > John KB6SCO > > Well, it was just an idea, but I've seen some reactions on your problem. So, I'll just sit in the corner, and be embarrassed.. :-) Nico From jpero at sympatico.ca Sat Oct 4 08:59:16 2003 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:17 2005 Subject: HP-85 consumables. In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20031003204646.007b2c40@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <20031003225128.BHNZ23759.tomts14-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: <20031004175748.NQTQ1736.tomts12-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > ????? Just buy the normal consumer sized rolls (~4" diameter) and cut > them with a bandsaw. I know a guy that's cut down plenty of it for use on a > HP calculator. It's uses paper about 1 1/4" wide and 1" diameter. > > Joe Saw (any method) that paper roll? This will leave edge raggies that little barely attached bits will tear off and clog up the mechanicals. YUK! I'm still curious how they slice 10' tall rolls used for large production like newspapers etc without tearing up big way, less wastages etc. I thought pushing through a roll with a knife like those tall ream of paper chop machine wastes one side of parted rolls bec it's "ruined" by going lopsided. Cheers, Wizard From dbwood at kc.rr.com Sat Oct 4 14:11:58 2003 From: dbwood at kc.rr.com (Douglas Wood) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:17 2005 Subject: HP-85 consumables. References: <20031003225128.BHNZ23759.tomts14-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> <20031004175748.NQTQ1736.tomts12-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: <174701c38aab$62c4a100$6501a8c0@kc.rr.com> They cut the paper as it comes off the presses, just before it's rolled onto the cores. Douglas Wood Software Engineer dbwood@kc.rr.com ICQ#: 143841506 Home of the EPICIS Development System for the PIC http://epicis.piclist.com ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, October 04, 2003 8:59 AM Subject: Re: HP-85 consumables. > > ????? Just buy the normal consumer sized rolls (~4" diameter) and cut > > them with a bandsaw. I know a guy that's cut down plenty of it for use on a > > HP calculator. It's uses paper about 1 1/4" wide and 1" diameter. > > > > Joe > > Saw (any method) that paper roll? This will leave edge raggies that > little barely attached bits will tear off and clog up the > mechanicals. YUK! > > I'm still curious how they slice 10' tall rolls used for large > production like newspapers etc without tearing up big way, less > wastages etc. I thought pushing through a roll with a knife like > those tall ream of paper chop machine wastes one side of parted rolls > bec it's "ruined" by going lopsided. > > Cheers, > > Wizard From trash_tmp at poczta.onet.pl Sat Oct 4 14:32:01 2003 From: trash_tmp at poczta.onet.pl (trashcan man) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:17 2005 Subject: sanyo lat-200a. In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20030930172029.007b21e0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20030929161145.007dc320@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <20030928200802.GA387@trashcan.ds7> <20030929095146.GA1945@trashcan.ds7> <3.0.6.32.20030929161145.007dc320@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20030930172029.007b21e0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <20031004193201.GA2248@trashcan.ds7> thanks for info, everyone. :-) On Tue, Sep 30, 2003 at 05:20:29PM -0400, Joe wrote: [..] > obvious.* BUT even if it has a standard ISA connector you can not just plug > it into a standard motherboard that already has CPU and memory. If you do, > you will be connecting the outputs of the memory, CPU etc on one board to > the outputs of memory, CPU etc of the other board. If any of the outputs > are not in the same logic state (hi or Lo), and it's a near certainty that > they're not, then they will try to force the other outputs and WILL burn up > something. [..] that's bad. this hardware went through hands of _very_ incompetent people. > details of the card that you have. If it's a CPU or memory card, don't try > to use it in a computer with a motherboard! If it's an I/O card then it's > probably safe to use with a motherboard. it's 'all in one' - cpu, memory, i/o. [..] > BTW where are you located? I have some extra backplanes here (Florida). > I can probably send you one. thanks, but it's not a good idea. first, as noted above, i doubt if it's working; i'll try to power it up anyway, when i have some more time. second, transport to poland would cost too much; one can find this kind of equipment relatively easily, and passive thing seems hard to fry, anyway. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Oct 4 14:17:31 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:17 2005 Subject: HP-85 consumables. In-Reply-To: <20031004175748.NQTQ1736.tomts12-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> References: <3.0.6.32.20031003204646.007b2c40@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <20031003225128.BHNZ23759.tomts14-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031004151731.007dab10@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 01:59 PM 10/4/03 +0000, you wrote: >> ????? Just buy the normal consumer sized rolls (~4" diameter) and cut >> them with a bandsaw. I know a guy that's cut down plenty of it for use on a >> HP calculator. It's uses paper about 1 1/4" wide and 1" diameter. >> >> Joe > >Saw (any method) that paper roll? This will leave edge raggies that >little barely attached bits will tear off and clog up the >mechanicals. YUK! I think he sanded the edges when he finished. But whatever he did worked for him. Joe From geoffr at zipcon.net Sat Oct 4 15:21:31 2003 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:17 2005 Subject: Mac SE/30 revived! woot! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.2.20031004132109.04a36b50@mail.zipcon.net> > >Now I go hunt for an SE PDS ethernet card. (Anyone have a spare?) I may have an old SE/30 ethernet card... From swtpc6800 at comcast.net Sat Oct 4 15:56:23 2003 From: swtpc6800 at comcast.net (Michael Holley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:17 2005 Subject: Need 307.2 kHz crystals Message-ID: <005d01c38ab9$f8dad660$9865fea9@hslckirkland.org> I am looking for a supply of 307.2 kHz crystals to restore some TV Typewriters. I need 2 crystals and someone else needs one or two. I have not been able to locate any. I can get them made at International Crystal Manufacturing (ICM) for about $55 each with a 6 week lead time. http://www.icmfg.com/crystal_hc51u.html I would like to find some at a better price. I can make a small PCB with a 1.8432 MHz oscillator and a divide by 6 IC. This would cost about $75 total for 6 items, but I would like to find a crystal. I am adding the baud rate option to the CT-S serial interface, the default was a fixed 110 baud. http://www.swtpc.com/mholley/CT_1024/CT1024_Index.htm Michael Holley www.swtpc.com/mholley From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Sat Oct 4 15:59:59 2003 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:17 2005 Subject: 9 track magnetic tape Message-ID: <3F7F34CF.9040102@jetnet.ab.ca> Found while surfing, 9 track tape for sale. http://www.tinaja.com/bargains/sbmisc.asp From geoffr at zipcon.net Sat Oct 4 16:09:14 2003 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:17 2005 Subject: Need 307.2 kHz crystals In-Reply-To: <005d01c38ab9$f8dad660$9865fea9@hslckirkland.org> References: <005d01c38ab9$f8dad660$9865fea9@hslckirkland.org> Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.2.20031004140510.04168b60@mail.zipcon.net> At 01:56 PM 10/4/03, you wrote: >I am looking for a supply of 307.2 kHz crystals to restore some TV >Typewriters. I need 2 crystals and someone else needs one or two. I have not >been able to locate any. http://www.keytronics-uk.co.uk/ their price is 1.5 pounds each. From marvin at rain.org Sat Oct 4 16:10:03 2003 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:17 2005 Subject: Need 307.2 kHz crystals References: <005d01c38ab9$f8dad660$9865fea9@hslckirkland.org> Message-ID: <3F7F372B.48738494@rain.org> The price you are quoting for getting crystals made seem outrageous although the crystals I've had made were in the MHz range. Cal Crystal at http://www.calcrystal.com/ is where I've had my crystals made and they are located in Anaheim, California. Michael Holley wrote: > > I am looking for a supply of 307.2 kHz crystals to restore some TV > Typewriters. I need 2 crystals and someone else needs one or two. I have not > been able to locate any. > > I can get them made at International Crystal Manufacturing (ICM) for about > $55 each with a 6 week lead time. > http://www.icmfg.com/crystal_hc51u.html > > I would like to find some at a better price. I can make a small PCB with a > 1.8432 MHz oscillator and a divide by 6 IC. This would cost about $75 total > for 6 items, but I would like to find a crystal. > > I am adding the baud rate option to the CT-S serial interface, the default > was a fixed 110 baud. > http://www.swtpc.com/mholley/CT_1024/CT1024_Index.htm > > Michael Holley > www.swtpc.com/mholley From nampcjr at yahoo.com Sat Oct 4 16:13:12 2003 From: nampcjr at yahoo.com (Brian Heise) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:17 2005 Subject: Ref needed for PCjr ROM cartridge Kit Message-ID: <20031004211312.96177.qmail@web42004.mail.yahoo.com> I obtained a nice supply of PCjr ROM cartridge Kits from Integrity Software. The carts were in a box in the corner of their warehouse, and was all they had left of their past enterprise with them. I looked in a Nov 1988 issue of the Eugene PCjr Club Newsletter and there is mention of the cartridge being used for backup. One thing missing from my shipment, though, were the docs needed for the soldering to change the settings on the physical PCB after putting on an EPROM. The title of the doc was "PCjr ROM Cartridge Kit Technical Reference Manual" and had a file name of RC-TECH.REF . If anyone happens to have this, write reply so I can get these puppies working!! Much appreciation! Brian --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search From jpl15 at panix.com Sat Oct 4 18:02:43 2003 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:17 2005 Subject: 9 track magnetic tape In-Reply-To: <3F7F34CF.9040102@jetnet.ab.ca> References: <3F7F34CF.9040102@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: On Sat, 4 Oct 2003, ben franchuk wrote: > Found while surfing, 9 track tape for sale. > http://www.tinaja.com/bargains/sbmisc.asp > > Don should stick to writing 'Cookbooks' etc... $7 for a 7" reel??? I don't think so... O, I see: $50 for ten - plus shipping from Arizona. Read Da Fine Print: 1200' reels. Oooopsss... Cheers John From kittstr at access-4-free.com Sat Oct 4 18:23:08 2003 From: kittstr at access-4-free.com (Andrew Strouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:17 2005 Subject: Fat (512K) Mac Revival? References: Message-ID: <013e01c38ad2$c5bcdd00$77444a43@amscomputer> The recent discussion about reviving a Mac SE/30 reminded me that I have a "fat mac" in my closet collecting dust. I found it after a yard sale a few years ago. ( I like to go late and see what finds I can get for nothing because the people just want the stuff out of their house.) I remember when I plugged it in, nothing happened. No sounds, lights, bars, patterns, sad/happy macs, etc. Does anyone have any suggestions of what to do to attempt to get it running. Is it worth it? (I'd like to play with it but could I find another one that works for less than it will take to fix?) It came with a large box of disks, and external drive, mouse and keyboard, so it seemed like a complete system, except that it doesn't work. Thanks in advance. Andrew Strouse ( kittstr@access-4-free.com ) From cb at mythtech.net Sat Oct 4 19:05:05 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:18 2005 Subject: 9 track magnetic tape Message-ID: > Don should stick to writing 'Cookbooks' etc... $7 for a 7" reel??? I >don't think so... O, I see: $50 for ten - plus shipping from Arizona. And to think, I'm asking $10 OBO for 24 of them ($18.00 counting shipping) -chris From jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to Sat Oct 4 19:41:03 2003 From: jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:18 2005 Subject: Strange Qbus cards: Data Systems Design and Marconi References: <031003220148.10f60@splab.cas.neu.edu> Message-ID: <3F7F689F.E9D9C23@compsys.to> >TRASH3@splab.cas.neu.edu wrote: > The DSD 880 Qbus subsystem used two different cards, the 8832 and the > 8836. The connector near the handle is 26 pins. For the 8836, the > 16Mhz crystal is in location G9, with the model number of the board on > the edge above that, for instance 808836-05 rev K. There are socketed > 24 pin dips in row e, and headers for programming in D4 and F5. > > There isn't really any special software for basic use, but if you want > the double sided use of the floppies, then you have to either use > their drivers, or patch your own. The same goes for utilizing more than > the 2-RL02 emulation feature, you have to patch for more logical units. Jerome Fine replies: The V4.00 distribution of the DEC DY.MAC device driver has code (which is incorrect - I guess that DEC never tested it) for the RX03 floppy which I presume was supposed to be the double-sided RX02. The code was removed for V5.00 of RT-11. I presume that DEC had decided at that point to never release an RX03 drive of their own. Note that the DSD 880 controller is able to handle ONLY 18 bit addresses with regard to the DMA silo which is also the problem with the DEC RX02 drive. It is possible to program a bounce buffer in RT-11 to get around that problem. I don't know what other operating systems do to handle that problem. The RL02 emulation by the DSD 880 does not need a patch as much as a SYSGEN in RT-11. It the user wishes, the DL(X).SYS device driver can be SYSGENed to handle up to 4 RL02 drives. But the distributed DL(X).SYS in all of the RT-11 distributions will handle only 2 RL02 drives. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From tothwolf at concentric.net Sat Oct 4 20:21:22 2003 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:18 2005 Subject: HP-85 consumables. In-Reply-To: <028301c389de$7c2bdbe0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> References: <20031003061443.723C33D9DB@www.fastmail.fm><009601c389af$1b8096c0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <4486.4.20.168.103.1065205973.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <028301c389de$7c2bdbe0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 3 Oct 2003, Jay West wrote: > Eric wrote.... > > > Are you sure DC1000 cartridges will work? It's supposed to use DC100 > > cartridges, which are not QIC-40. I didn't think DC100, DC1000, and > > DC2000 cartridges were interchangeable, despite being the same > > physical size. But I haven't tried it. > > I am not sure DC1000 cartridges will work. Another list member said that > what I need are QIC-40 tapes. When I looked those up on the web, the > tape manufacturer said a DC1000 was their designation for QIC-40 tapes. > > I never said DC100, DC1000, and DC2000 cartridges were > interchangeable... in fact they aren't. > > Now that you mention it, I don't recall if it was DC100 or DC1000 they > said... I will check! The HP85A I had used DC100A tapes. Sadly, I sold the computer back in 1995 for about $250. I guess I'll find another one someday... -Toth From tothwolf at concentric.net Sat Oct 4 20:25:54 2003 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:18 2005 Subject: HP 7906 drive lives again & stuff In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20031003173742.007eaab0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20031003173742.007eaab0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 3 Oct 2003, Joe wrote: > You might try "coil cleaner". It's used to clean air conditioning > evaporator coils and readily removes built up dust and dirt. You just > spray it on, let it sit for a bit then wash it off with water. It's used > on bare metal in AC units so that SHOULDN'T be a problem but you might > want to try it on some scrap first. The guys in the business call it > "acid" but I think it's actually alkaline. The stuff I used to have around was an acid. It was bad enough that the fumes from a leaking bottle etched/frosted the windows in the service van... -Toth From vcf at siconic.com Sat Oct 4 21:26:26 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:18 2005 Subject: 9 track magnetic tape In-Reply-To: <3F7F34CF.9040102@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: On Sat, 4 Oct 2003, ben franchuk wrote: > Found while surfing, 9 track tape for sale. > http://www.tinaja.com/bargains/sbmisc.asp That's Don Lancaster's website. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From lbickley at bickleywest.com Sun Oct 5 11:19:28 2003 From: lbickley at bickleywest.com (Lyle Bickley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:18 2005 Subject: HP-85 consumables. In-Reply-To: <1027.4.20.168.103.1065212904.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> References: <20031003061443.723C33D9DB@www.fastmail.fm> <028301c389de$7c2bdbe0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <1027.4.20.168.103.1065212904.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <200310050919.29446.lbickley@bickleywest.com> On Friday 03 October 2003 13:28, Eric Smith wrote: > Jay wrote: ---snip--- > The HP part number was 98200A, and a lot of web sites claim that the > DC100A is the replacement, but I don't have any info I would considered > to be definitive. As I think I stated in a prior Email, the HP 98200A was the original cartridge used by HP for the 85 - however the DC100A (I've never seen a DC100) is an identical tape and works fine as a replacement. I have two restored HP-85's and the DC100A tapes work perfectly. ---snip--- > Can the HP-85 format a completely blank tape? Many HP cartridge tape > drives were not capable of doing that. I've got an HP-85 but have > never tried using a tape with it. > > Eric Yes, completely blank tape can be formated with the ERASETAPE command. This creates a "blank directory" on the tape. BTW: CAT dislplays a tape directory, STORE "filename" saves a program, LOAD "filename" loads a program from tape, and PURGE "filename" deletes a program from tape. To retension a tape use CTAPE. Cheers, Lyle -- Lyle Bickley Bickley Consulting West Inc. Mountain View, CA 94040 "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero" From waltje at pdp11.nl Sun Oct 5 11:38:49 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:18 2005 Subject: Available (NL) : Apple Mac shtuff Message-ID: Hiyas, One of my customers finally saw The Light, and will now allow me to free up some of the storage space we have there. Aside from me being quite busy chucking stuff out into the dumpster, there's also a bunch of Apple thingies from their DTP department that can now be dumped. Obviously, I will not get caught playing with fruity "computers" during *my* lifetime, soo.. available are: - Mac II SE - Mac IIcx - Mac something (couldnt read; too dark there) I also know there are several Powermac (what? can we eat that?) boxes up that shelf, just couldnt be bothered climbing up there in the dark, any more details will have to wait till later, when I first grab a lite 'fore going up there. Since shipping fruit internationally can be quite expensive (gotta keep it cool 'n stuff) we'd prefer to have it picked up by local people (meaning, Dutchies) or people silly enough to drive a LONG time for a bag of this fruit.. Cheers, Fred -- Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist Visit the VAXlab Project at http://www.pdp11.nl/VAXlab/ Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Sunnyvale, CA, USA From alhartman at yahoo.com Sun Oct 5 12:09:13 2003 From: alhartman at yahoo.com (Al Hartman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:18 2005 Subject: Fat (512K) Mac Revival? In-Reply-To: <200310051700.h95H03H5032906@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20031005170913.58590.qmail@web13401.mail.yahoo.com> It could be something as simple as a bad PRAM battery. There's a little door in the upper back, that has a battery in it. Open it and see if there's a battery in there. If it hasn't exploded... You probably can try replacing that as a start. Next would be the Power Supply/Analog board. But, yes... You should be able to buy a replacement cheaper than fixing that unit. Though, you might find buyers for the parts to help fund that. Regards, Al Hartman > From: "Andrew Strouse" > > The recent discussion about reviving a Mac SE/30 > reminded me that I have a "fat mac" in my closet > collecting dust. I found it after a yard sale a > few years ago. ( I like to go late and see what > finds I can get for nothing because the people just > want the stuff out of their house.) I remember > when I plugged it in, nothing happened. No sounds, > lights, bars, patterns, sad/happy macs, etc. Does > anyone have any suggestions of what to do to > attempt to get it running. Is it worth it? (I'd > like to play with it but could I find another one > that works for less than it will take to fix?) > It came with a large box of disks, and external > drive, mouse and keyboard, so it seemed like a > complete system, except that it doesn't work. > > Thanks in advance. > > Andrew Strouse >( kittstr@access-4-free.com ) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Oct 5 12:24:53 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:18 2005 Subject: Morely Electronics Teletext Adapter. Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 953 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20031005/940a9403/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Oct 5 12:13:44 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:18 2005 Subject: Fat (512K) Mac Revival? In-Reply-To: <013e01c38ad2$c5bcdd00$77444a43@amscomputer> from "Andrew Strouse" at Oct 4, 3 07:23:08 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 838 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20031005/3ff07f8c/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Oct 5 12:20:46 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:18 2005 Subject: Acorn Econet Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1365 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20031005/d594f119/attachment.ksh From CCTalk at catcorner.org Sun Oct 5 15:14:21 2003 From: CCTalk at catcorner.org (Kelly Leavitt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:18 2005 Subject: Free TRS-80 Model III Message-ID: <3572C311B2DB4C418DAB189F1F190799B8A6@mail.catcorner.org> Free TRS-80 Model III. All you have to do is come to Northwest New Jersey to pick it up. It has two disk drives. No sftware. I don't know if it works, but at this price you can't beat it. No trades needed, no cash, just some time. Kelly From rhudson at cnonline.net Sun Oct 5 16:26:15 2003 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:18 2005 Subject: Help! need 400k/800k Mac os 6 or 7 diskettes! Message-ID: <8D22A1F0-F77A-11D7-9AA9-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> Hey anyone? I don't have any machine that can write these. If anyone can send me just an 800K floppy with the Mac OS6 or OS7 cd rom drive that'l work too. I have a CD with OS7 (probably) on it. I want to get a MAC SE working again. I have scsi CDrom drive and apples software cdrom. Thanks! ron. From donm at cts.com Sun Oct 5 16:28:47 2003 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:18 2005 Subject: Fat (512K) Mac Revival? In-Reply-To: <013e01c38ad2$c5bcdd00$77444a43@amscomputer> Message-ID: On Sat, 4 Oct 2003, Andrew Strouse wrote: > The recent discussion about reviving a Mac SE/30 reminded me that I have a > "fat mac" in my closet collecting dust. I found it after a yard sale a few > years ago. ( I like to go late and see what finds I can get for nothing > because the people just want the stuff out of their house.) I remember when > I plugged it in, nothing happened. No sounds, lights, bars, patterns, > sad/happy macs, etc. Does anyone have any suggestions of what to do to > attempt to get it running. Is it worth it? (I'd like to play with it but > could I find another one that works for less than it will take to fix?) It > came with a large box of disks, and external drive, mouse and keyboard, so > it seemed like a complete system, except that it doesn't work. Check whether there is any DC voltage out of the power supply. If not, there is a fuse buried in the power supply that is likely blown. Start your trouble shooting from there. - don > Thanks in advance. > > Andrew Strouse > ( kittstr@access-4-free.com ) > > From cb at mythtech.net Sun Oct 5 18:03:00 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:18 2005 Subject: Help! need 400k/800k Mac os 6 or 7 diskettes! Message-ID: >I don't have any machine that can write these. > >If anyone can send me just an 800K floppy with the Mac OS6 or OS7 >cd rom drive that'l work too. I have a CD with OS7 (probably) on it. > >I want to get a MAC SE working again. I have scsi CDrom drive and >apples software cdrom. If the SE has 4 MB of ram, you can connect an your SCSI CD ROM drive to the SCSI port on the back, and boot from your OS 7 CD (assuming it is an Apple OS 7 installer and thus a bootable CD). To do so put the CD in the drive, then turn on the Mac and hold the Command-Option-Shift-Delete to force the SE to boot from the external drive. If you can't get that working, let me know, I'll send you a system 6 install set on 800K disks. System 7 doesn't fit on 800K disks so that's right out. Unless you double check that you need 800K disks. Later Mac SE models had 1.4 drives in them (if the Mac is labeled as Mac SE SuperDrive or Mac SE FDHD then it can use 1.4 disks) -chris From rhudson at cnonline.net Sun Oct 5 18:20:03 2003 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:18 2005 Subject: Help! need 400k/800k Mac os 6 or 7 diskettes! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <728E1910-F78A-11D7-9719-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> On Sunday, October 5, 2003, at 06:03 PM, chris wrote: >> I don't have any machine that can write these. >> >> If anyone can send me just an 800K floppy with the Mac OS6 or OS7 >> cd rom drive that'l work too. I have a CD with OS7 (probably) on it. >> >> I want to get a MAC SE working again. I have scsi CDrom drive and >> apples software cdrom. > > If the SE has 4 MB of ram, you can connect an your SCSI CD ROM drive to > the SCSI port on the back, and boot from your OS 7 CD (assuming it is > an > Apple OS 7 installer and thus a bootable CD). To do so put the CD in > the > drive, then turn on the Mac and hold the Command-Option-Shift-Delete to > force the SE to boot from the external drive. Ok, I get a blinking floppy disk "?" in the middle of the screen. I guess the CD rom I have is not bootable after all. (it came from a 2 disk pack marked "Apple Software" / "Claris Software" ) My iBook won't read the CD. My SE want's for format any 1.44 floppy, and my iBook won't mount any 400/800mb floppy. :^) Home address: Ron Hudson 29300 E 65th St. Blue Springs MO, 64014 Thanks a lot! > > If you can't get that working, let me know, I'll send you a system 6 > install set on 800K disks. System 7 doesn't fit on 800K disks so that's > right out. Unless you double check that you need 800K disks. Later Mac > SE > models had 1.4 drives in them (if the Mac is labeled as Mac SE > SuperDrive > or Mac SE FDHD then it can use 1.4 disks) > > -chris > > > From freddyboomboom at comcast.net Sun Oct 5 18:39:17 2003 From: freddyboomboom at comcast.net (Andrew Prince) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:18 2005 Subject: Help! need 400k/800k Mac os 6 or 7 diskettes! In-Reply-To: <728E1910-F78A-11D7-9719-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> Message-ID: <000101c38b99$e4fed930$6c7ba8c0@freddyboomboom> http://www.info.apple.com/support/oldersoftwarelist.html You can download several older system software disk images, 6.0.3, 6.0.5, 6.0.8, 7.0, 7.0.1, etc... Your iBook won't write an 800k floppy? Hmmm... Is the floppy an actual 800k floppy, or a 1.44m floppy? Let me know if the download is successful... Another source: http://home.earthlink.net/~gamba2/bootdisks.html Gamba's boot disks for Macs... http://home.earthlink.net/~gamba2/syslist.html Gamba's System Software for Macs... You might also want to visit http://w3.trib.com/~dwood/oldmac.shtml and see what other info you can dig up. Good Luck! If this doesn't help you enough, let us know... TTFN Andrew > -----Original Message----- > Subject: Re: Help! need 400k/800k Mac os 6 or 7 diskettes! > On Sunday, October 5, 2003, at 06:03 PM, chris wrote: > >> > >> If anyone can send me just an 800K floppy with the Mac OS6 or OS7 > >> cd rom drive that'l work too. I have a CD with OS7 > (probably) on it. > >> > > Ok, I get a blinking floppy disk "?" in the middle of the screen. I > guess the CD rom I > have is not bootable after all. > > (it came from a 2 disk pack marked "Apple Software" / "Claris > Software" > ) > > My iBook won't read the CD. My SE want's for format any 1.44 floppy, > and my iBook > won't mount any 400/800mb floppy. > > :^) > Thanks a lot! > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Oct 5 18:32:11 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:18 2005 Subject: Fat (512K) Mac Revival? In-Reply-To: from "Don Maslin" at Oct 5, 3 02:28:47 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 815 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20031006/b2edeaad/attachment.ksh From jrkeys at concentric.net Sun Oct 5 19:43:36 2003 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:18 2005 Subject: Used Atari 2600 Game Cartridge goes for over $70 Message-ID: <019201c38ba2$e1d71d40$100ddd40@oemcomputer> Gamer collectors seem to over spend TOO! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3049474935 From rhudson at cnonline.net Sun Oct 5 19:59:47 2003 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:18 2005 Subject: Help! need 400k/800k Mac os 6 or 7 diskettes! In-Reply-To: <000101c38b99$e4fed930$6c7ba8c0@freddyboomboom> Message-ID: <61AA6280-F798-11D7-9719-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> On Sunday, October 5, 2003, at 06:39 PM, Andrew Prince wrote: > http://www.info.apple.com/support/oldersoftwarelist.html > > You can download several older system software disk images, 6.0.3, > 6.0.5, > 6.0.8, 7.0, 7.0.1, etc... > > Your iBook won't write an 800k floppy? Hmmm... Is the floppy an actual > 800k > floppy, or a 1.44m floppy? 1.44m USB floppy > > Let me know if the download is successful... I seem to be able to download, now if only one of the images is a bootable cdrom! > > Another source: http://home.earthlink.net/~gamba2/bootdisks.html > Gamba's > boot disks for Macs... > > http://home.earthlink.net/~gamba2/syslist.html Gamba's System Software > for > Macs... > > You might also want to visit http://w3.trib.com/~dwood/oldmac.shtml > and see > what other info you can dig up. > > > Good Luck! > > If this doesn't help you enough, let us know... > > TTFN > Andrew > >> -----Original Message----- >> Subject: Re: Help! need 400k/800k Mac os 6 or 7 diskettes! >> On Sunday, October 5, 2003, at 06:03 PM, chris wrote: >>>> >>>> If anyone can send me just an 800K floppy with the Mac OS6 or OS7 >>>> cd rom drive that'l work too. I have a CD with OS7 >> (probably) on it. >>>> >> >> Ok, I get a blinking floppy disk "?" in the middle of the screen. I >> guess the CD rom I >> have is not bootable after all. >> >> (it came from a 2 disk pack marked "Apple Software" / "Claris >> Software" >> ) >> >> My iBook won't read the CD. My SE want's for format any 1.44 floppy, >> and my iBook >> won't mount any 400/800mb floppy. >> >> :^) >> Thanks a lot! >> > > From cb at mythtech.net Sun Oct 5 20:04:57 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:18 2005 Subject: Help! need 400k/800k Mac os 6 or 7 diskettes! Message-ID: >Ok, I get a blinking floppy disk "?" in the middle of the screen. I >guess the CD rom I >have is not bootable after all. > >(it came from a 2 disk pack marked "Apple Software" / "Claris Software" Try Command-Option-Shift-Tab and see if that works. However, there is a good chance that it isn't a bootable CD >My iBook won't read the CD. My SE want's for format any 1.44 floppy, >and my iBook >won't mount any 400/800mb floppy. I'll make up a set of System 6 install disks tomorrow. Send me a mailing address off list. -chris From cb at mythtech.net Sun Oct 5 20:06:05 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:18 2005 Subject: Help! need 400k/800k Mac os 6 or 7 diskettes! Message-ID: >Your iBook won't write an 800k floppy? Hmmm... Is the floppy an actual 800k >floppy, or a 1.44m floppy? Apple stopped having the drives read and write 400 and 800 k disks a while ago. -chris From teoz at neo.rr.com Sun Oct 5 20:25:17 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:18 2005 Subject: Used Atari 2600 Game Cartridge goes for over $70 References: <019201c38ba2$e1d71d40$100ddd40@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <001801c38ba8$b3d8c3c0$3d7ca418@neo.rr.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Keys" To: "cctech@classiccmp" Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2003 8:43 PM Subject: Used Atari 2600 Game Cartridge goes for over $70 > Gamer collectors seem to over spend TOO! > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3049474935 Serious collectors will pay top dollar for the last few pieces needed to complete their collection, so this isnt a big deal. Other collectors will just download the rom and put it on a cart to play on a real atari 2600, while the casual gamer will just play it on an emulator. Most of the "rare" 2600 games suck anyway, its just something to put in your collection case and talk about at shows with other collectors. From curt at atarimuseum.com Sun Oct 5 21:28:08 2003 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:18 2005 Subject: Used Atari 2600 Game Cartridge goes for over $70 References: <019201c38ba2$e1d71d40$100ddd40@oemcomputer> <001801c38ba8$b3d8c3c0$3d7ca418@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: <002001c38bb1$7b5b2930$1a02a8c0@starship1> Actually Chase the Chuckwagon is (well... was) considered to be one the "holey grails" of collecting and used to fetch upwards of $300-$500 several years ago I recall one or two going for as high as $1000 at one point, they are a little more common in collecting circles and quite frankly, a cartridge of that quality label going for only $70 is actually a steal. Around $100-$125 is the going rate Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "TeoZ" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2003 9:25 PM Subject: Re: Used Atari 2600 Game Cartridge goes for over $70 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Keys" > To: "cctech@classiccmp" > Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2003 8:43 PM > Subject: Used Atari 2600 Game Cartridge goes for over $70 > > > > Gamer collectors seem to over spend TOO! > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3049474935 > > Serious collectors will pay top dollar for the last few pieces needed to > complete their collection, so this isnt a big deal. > Other collectors will just download the rom and put it on a cart to play on > a real atari 2600, while the casual gamer will just play it on an emulator. > Most of the "rare" 2600 games suck anyway, its just something to put in > your collection case and talk about at shows with other collectors. > > > From rhudson at cnonline.net Sun Oct 5 21:46:31 2003 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:18 2005 Subject: Help! need 400k/800k Mac os 6 or 7 diskettes! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4A87BB40-F7A7-11D7-9719-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> > > I'll make up a set of System 6 install disks tomorrow. Send me a > mailing > address off list. > > -chris > > > > OOps I already sent it onlist... :^) Ron Hudson 29300 E 65th St. Blue Springs MO 64014 From netsurfer_x1 at fastmailbox.net Sun Oct 5 21:51:33 2003 From: netsurfer_x1 at fastmailbox.net (David Vohs) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:18 2005 Subject: HP-85 consumables, part 2. Message-ID: <20031006025133.00854370EA@www.fastmail.fm> Anyone know how wide the thermal paper is for the HP-85's printer? Is it 3 & 1/8", or is it wider? -- David Vohs netsurfer_x1@fastmailbox.net -- http://www.fastmail.fm - A fast, anti-spam email service. From curt at atarimuseum.com Sun Oct 5 21:59:35 2003 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:18 2005 Subject: Whats the big deal with the Bigboard II ??? References: <019201c38ba2$e1d71d40$100ddd40@oemcomputer> <001801c38ba8$b3d8c3c0$3d7ca418@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: <002f01c38bb5$e01611b0$1a02a8c0@starship1> Hi, Can someone fill me in on all the interest? I just recently won an auction on Ebay, primarily I wanted just the cabinet with its 8" disk drives and power supply so I could install an 8" controller inside of it that allows Atari 8bits using the SIO bus to use 8" disk drives. Well as a bonus the auction came with the Big Board II inside of the cabinet, I couldn't tell from the photo and figured yeah it was some kind of single board computer, but since winning the auction I've received 5 emails inquiring and wanting to buy it from me, so tell me what the story is behind this board please. Curt From teoz at neo.rr.com Sun Oct 5 22:03:40 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:18 2005 Subject: Used Atari 2600 Game Cartridge goes for over $70 References: <019201c38ba2$e1d71d40$100ddd40@oemcomputer> <001801c38ba8$b3d8c3c0$3d7ca418@neo.rr.com> <002001c38bb1$7b5b2930$1a02a8c0@starship1> Message-ID: <000801c38bb6$76814d40$3d7ca418@neo.rr.com> Its (almost) funny how much people will pay for an item when they have money burning a hole in their pockets, and how much they will let things go for when they dont. I think the economy going down the last few years has killed alot of the "rare" retro gaming market, or maybe the fad is over. I personally like huge fads like this because while the prices rise everybody digs the rare items out of the attic, and when it falls you can get the items for very little money (for the long term collector). Its when the prices for items are too low that everything just gets tossed and the collectors have a hard time finding things. Personally I would rather buy a few upright early arcade machines then 1 atari cart I would never play for $1k. > Actually Chase the Chuckwagon is (well... was) considered to be one the > "holey grails" of collecting and used to fetch upwards of $300-$500 several > years ago I recall one or two going for as high as $1000 at one point, they > are a little more common in collecting circles and quite frankly, a > cartridge of that quality label going for only $70 is actually a steal. > Around $100-$125 is the going rate > > > Curt > From marvin at rain.org Sun Oct 5 22:07:44 2003 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:18 2005 Subject: HP-85 consumables, part 2. References: <20031006025133.00854370EA@www.fastmail.fm> Message-ID: <3F80DC80.E37A1DE@rain.org> According to the 82931A box, each roll is 4.25" x 400'. David Vohs wrote: > > Anyone know how wide the thermal paper is for the HP-85's printer? Is it > 3 & 1/8", or is it wider? From curt at atarimuseum.com Sun Oct 5 22:18:32 2003 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:18 2005 Subject: Used Atari 2600 Game Cartridge goes for over $70 References: <019201c38ba2$e1d71d40$100ddd40@oemcomputer><001801c38ba8$b3d8c3c0$3d7ca418@neo.rr.com><002001c38bb1$7b5b2930$1a02a8c0@starship1> <000801c38bb6$76814d40$3d7ca418@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: <003601c38bb8$85a67d70$1a02a8c0@starship1> Thats VERY true, in fact the boom-times were killing a lot of us game collectors, the prices of arcade machines and other items just went ballistic, things have settled down to more reasonale figures, though I wouldn't mind seeing them a bit lower ;-) Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "TeoZ" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2003 11:03 PM Subject: Re: Used Atari 2600 Game Cartridge goes for over $70 > Its (almost) funny how much people will pay for an item when they have > money burning a hole in their pockets, and how much they will let things go > for when they dont. I think the economy going down the last few years has > killed alot of the "rare" retro gaming market, or maybe the fad is over. I > personally like huge fads like this because while the prices rise everybody > digs the rare items out of the attic, and when it falls you can get the > items for very little money (for the long term collector). Its when the > prices for items are too low that everything just gets tossed and the > collectors have a hard time finding things. Personally I would rather buy a > few upright early arcade machines then 1 atari cart I would never play for > $1k. > > > > > Actually Chase the Chuckwagon is (well... was) considered to be one the > > "holey grails" of collecting and used to fetch upwards of $300-$500 > several > > years ago I recall one or two going for as high as $1000 at one point, > they > > are a little more common in collecting circles and quite frankly, a > > cartridge of that quality label going for only $70 is actually a steal. > > Around $100-$125 is the going rate > > > > > > Curt > > > > From cb at mythtech.net Sun Oct 5 22:24:40 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:18 2005 Subject: Help! need 400k/800k Mac os 6 or 7 diskettes! Message-ID: >OOps I already sent it onlist... :^) Yeah, I realized that after I hit send on the message asking for it off list. Oh well, at least I have it. I'll get a set of disks out to you tomorrow (Monday). -chris From rhudson at cnonline.net Sun Oct 5 22:34:45 2003 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:18 2005 Subject: Help! need 400k/800k Mac os 6 or 7 diskettes! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <07E9E58C-F7AE-11D7-9719-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> Thanks! btw I can't seem to get www.mythtech.net... is it up? it could just be the Nameserver I am stuck with. On Sunday, October 5, 2003, at 10:24 PM, chris wrote: >> OOps I already sent it onlist... :^) > > Yeah, I realized that after I hit send on the message asking for it off > list. > > Oh well, at least I have it. I'll get a set of disks out to you > tomorrow > (Monday). > > -chris > > > From vcf at siconic.com Sun Oct 5 22:47:20 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:18 2005 Subject: Used Atari 2600 Game Cartridge goes for over $70 In-Reply-To: <019201c38ba2$e1d71d40$100ddd40@oemcomputer> Message-ID: On Sun, 5 Oct 2003, Keys wrote: > Gamer collectors seem to over spend TOO! > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3049474935 John, study your history before spewing. Google "chase the chuckwagon atari 2600" and you'll understand why this cart goes for over $70. There are many more carts that will fetch even higher. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From spectre at floodgap.com Sun Oct 5 23:00:37 2003 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:18 2005 Subject: Need IIci cache cards Message-ID: <200310060400.VAA13456@floodgap.com> My indefatigable Macintosh IIci NetBSD server got defatigable and its cache card blew (diagnosis made by the fact that when the cache card was pulled, it suddenly could boot again). Fortunately, I had *one* *more* *card* in stock, but between the several IIcis I have running, I'm now totally out in case this happens again. Anyone going to VCF6 that has a few they could be talked/dealed into parting with? Thanks! -- ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@floodgap.com -- "Eight tries. The number is ... seven." ------------------------------------ From vcf at siconic.com Sun Oct 5 22:50:53 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:18 2005 Subject: Used Atari 2600 Game Cartridge goes for over $70 In-Reply-To: <000801c38bb6$76814d40$3d7ca418@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 5 Oct 2003, TeoZ wrote: > Its (almost) funny how much people will pay for an item when they have > money burning a hole in their pockets, and how much they will let things go > for when they dont. I think the economy going down the last few years has > killed alot of the "rare" retro gaming market, or maybe the fad is over. I Thank gawd. It was rather annoying. It's nice to be able to buy things at sensible amounts again (at least in most cases). > personally like huge fads like this because while the prices rise everybody > digs the rare items out of the attic, and when it falls you can get the > items for very little money (for the long term collector). Its when the Exactly. Which is why I always preached against using eBay to price stuff or to even buy stuff from. If you learned your lessons of patience as a youth then you should have eventually gotten what you wanted at a much more reasonable (and REALISTIC) price. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Sun Oct 5 22:53:14 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:18 2005 Subject: Used Atari 2600 Game Cartridge goes for over $70 In-Reply-To: <003601c38bb8$85a67d70$1a02a8c0@starship1> Message-ID: On Sun, 5 Oct 2003, Curt vendel wrote: > Thats VERY true, in fact the boom-times were killing a lot of us game > collectors, the prices of arcade machines and other items just went > ballistic, things have settled down to more reasonale figures, though I > wouldn't mind seeing them a bit lower ;-) Don't worry. With the way the economy is going in the States and no hope of any kind of actual recovery with the current status quo (ahem) you can expect a lot of people to start dumping whatever they have to get whatever they can to pay the bills. The pundits are calling this a "jobless recovery". I'm calling it a "recoveryless recovery". -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From lbickley at bickleywest.com Sun Oct 5 23:42:26 2003 From: lbickley at bickleywest.com (Lyle Bickley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:18 2005 Subject: HP-85 consumables, part 2. In-Reply-To: <20031006025133.00854370EA@www.fastmail.fm> References: <20031006025133.00854370EA@www.fastmail.fm> Message-ID: <200310052142.26637.lbickley@bickleywest.com> Avout 4.25 inches (108 mm) for HP82931A paper Lyle On Sunday 05 October 2003 19:51, David Vohs wrote: > Anyone know how wide the thermal paper is for the HP-85's printer? Is it > 3 & 1/8", or is it wider? > -- > David Vohs > netsurfer_x1@fastmailbox.net -- Lyle Bickley Bickley Consulting West Inc. Mountain View, CA 94040 "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero" From jpl15 at panix.com Sun Oct 5 23:46:42 2003 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:18 2005 Subject: Want RL02s at VCF Message-ID: I will be seeking two, maybe three DEC RL02 drives - at least one in good working order - whilst at VCF. [also one interconnect cable and spare terminator]. I have cash to pay for same (if at all 'reasonable'). I will have a 3/4 ton 4X4 full-size pickup truck, so travelling to your Secret Mountain Hide-out to get them will not pose a problem. Will be happy to go anywhere in the Bay Area over next weekend, or to modify my trek home, if it's roughly in the same direction (to Carson City, Nevada). Lemme know. And yes, I posted this on the VCF Bulletin Board, but forgot my damn password, and lost the message trying to find the Magic Formulae. So there. Cheers John From teoz at neo.rr.com Sun Oct 5 23:52:23 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:18 2005 Subject: Used Atari 2600 Game Cartridge goes for over $70 References: Message-ID: <000a01c38bc5$a20105a0$3d7ca418@neo.rr.com> > > Don't worry. With the way the economy is going in the States and no hope > of any kind of actual recovery with the current status quo (ahem) you can > expect a lot of people to start dumping whatever they have to get whatever > they can to pay the bills. > > The pundits are calling this a "jobless recovery". I'm calling it a > "recoveryless recovery". > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival Yea I know what you mean, being an unemployed engineer.. glad I saved for a house I never purchased. From vcf at siconic.com Sun Oct 5 23:56:41 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:18 2005 Subject: Need IIci cache cards In-Reply-To: <200310060400.VAA13456@floodgap.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 5 Oct 2003, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > My indefatigable Macintosh IIci NetBSD server got defatigable and its cache > card blew (diagnosis made by the fact that when the cache card was pulled, it > suddenly could boot again). Fortunately, I had *one* *more* *card* in stock, > but between the several IIcis I have running, I'm now totally out in case this > happens again. Anyone going to VCF6 that has a few they could be talked/dealed > into parting with? You might also want to post this request to the VCF BBS: http://www.vintage.org/2003/main/bbs.php?directive=index:VCF60:TRADE:0 -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From teoz at neo.rr.com Mon Oct 6 02:19:39 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:18 2005 Subject: Used Atari 2600 Game Cartridge goes for over $70 References: Message-ID: <001201c38bda$37ccb5c0$3d7ca418@neo.rr.com> > Exactly. Which is why I always preached against using eBay to price stuff > or to even buy stuff from. If you learned your lessons of patience as a > youth then you should have eventually gotten what you wanted at a much > more reasonable (and REALISTIC) price. > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > You can find some great deals on ebay for items you want if your patient and check for them every day, compared to great deals that just fall into your lap otherwise when your not really looking. You can also get burned on ebay easily, just be carefull. Then again the stuff I look for isnt that expensive, I dont think I spent more then $150 on any 1 item on ebay and that was when I started 3 years ago. From e.huininga at sozawe.groningen.nl Mon Oct 6 03:09:12 2003 From: e.huininga at sozawe.groningen.nl (Eelco Huininga) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:18 2005 Subject: Betr.: Morely Electronics Teletext Adapter. Message-ID: The users guide can be downloaded here: http://www.retrocomputing-world.com/biblio/computer/acorn/doc/MorleyTeletextAdapterSupportROM.pdf Furthermore you could check http://www.8bs.com/ and The BBC lives (http://www.bbc.nvg.org/ ). The latter should have an archive of ROMs, which almost certainly should have the ROM for your adapter. Cheers, Eelco >>> Tony Duell 10/05 7:24 >>> While looking for Econet bits, I found the above-mentioned unit (Morely Electronics Teletext Adapter). It's clearly a BBC periperal. On the back is Belling-Lee coaxial socket (standard TV aerial connector), and a piece of 6 way ribbon cable. This splits, 4 wires go to a 20 pin 2-row IDC header socket (presumably BBC User Port, the connections would then be +5V, Ground, and 2 lines for I2C SCL and SDA). The other 2 wires go to a plug to fit the BBC's power outlet socket, to get 12V. Inside there's a single PCB with a TV tuner module mounted off one edge. The PCB contains a TV IF strip, CITAC (Computer Interface for Tuning And Control) chip (to select the TV channel under computer control), and a standard Teletext chipset (SAA5240 based IIRC). Does anyone know anything about this unit, and more importantly, anyone know where I can get the software to use it (it's certainly not compatable with the Acorn Teletext unit). -tony From e.huininga at sozawe.groningen.nl Mon Oct 6 03:11:19 2003 From: e.huininga at sozawe.groningen.nl (Eelco Huininga) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:18 2005 Subject: Betr.: Acorn Econet Message-ID: Econet fileservers were called 'Filestores' which came in different 'levels', which is somewhat like a version number. Check http://www.heyrick.co.uk/econet/ for more information. There was an Econet interface card available for PC's, called 'Ecolink'. With this card I believe it was possible to hook an Econet to an Ethernet, and/or to set up a PC as a fileserver. I think it would be easier to set up an A310, A3000 or A3010 as a fileserver though. Another option which I've been working on is adding an Ethernet interface to an BBC, and writing a simple TCP/IP stack so that this BBC can act as an Econet-Ethernet bridge, but this project is still in the design stage :-) Some econet documents can be found here: http://www.retrocomputing-world.com/biblio/computer/acorn/docs.shtml Cheers, Eelco >>> Tony Duell 10/05 7:20 >>> Does anyone have any experience with Acorn Econet (Acorn's low-cost, fairly low-speed network)? My newly-acquired Acorn Cambridge Workstation (ACW) has an Econet interface (I am told it's standard on these machines), and I'd like to hook it up to something. Digging in my junk box (well, more like junk room :-)), I've found a couple of Econet clock boxes (one Acorn, one SJ, these supply the data clock for the network), a terminator, various connector boxes, etc. Cabling shouldn't be a real problem either, I assume the right cable is 2 twisted pairs with an overall screen. I believe I need a fileserver (== a machine set up as such). Assume I have Beebs (with Econet interfaces), 6502 and Z80 second processors, A310 (but no backplane, therefore no expansion), A3000 (no expansion either), A3010 (in bits, but probably repairable), a couple of Systems (one with an Exonet interface), and not a lot else. I think I could find the Acorn SASI/SCSI host interface for the Beeb if pushed, and I have a Beeb with the Torch SCSI card and SCSIFS. Oh, and an Acorn Econet bridge, but that's fairly useless at the moment... Any ideas as to what I should use, and where to get the necessary software. Has anyone ever hacked a PC to work as an Econet fileserver? The hardware wouldn't be too bad, I think. Anything else I should be aware of? -tony From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Oct 6 04:46:16 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:18 2005 Subject: Need IIci cache cards In-Reply-To: <200310060400.VAA13456@floodgap.com> References: <200310060400.VAA13456@floodgap.com> Message-ID: >My indefatigable Macintosh IIci NetBSD server got defatigable and its cache >card blew (diagnosis made by the fact that when the cache card was pulled, it OK, what exactly is a "Cache Card"? I would guess that it's CPU cache on a card of some sort? Is this something limited to the IIci, or do other models in the II series use it? Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From spectre at floodgap.com Mon Oct 6 05:42:43 2003 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:18 2005 Subject: Need IIci cache cards In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at "Oct 6, 3 02:46:16 am" Message-ID: <200310061042.DAA09486@floodgap.com> > > My indefatigable Macintosh IIci NetBSD server got defatigable and its cache > > card blew (diagnosis made by the fact that when the cache card was pulled, > > OK, what exactly is a "Cache Card"? I would guess that it's CPU cache on a > card of some sort? Is this something limited to the IIci, or do other > models in the II series use it? AFAIK it's specific to the IIci. It goes in the PDS slot and is 32K of L1 cache for the '030 (basically equivalent to the L1 that the '040 has built in). The performance upgrade is only moderate, but definitely noticible, and it's a cheap and almost painless way to get more juice out of a IIci. Later releases of the IIci had the cache card included (it was an option on earlier releases). -- ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@floodgap.com -- Hidden DOS secret: add BUGS=OFF to your CONFIG.SYS. ------------------------ From paulha at sonic.net Fri Oct 3 13:27:52 2003 From: paulha at sonic.net (Paul Haase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:18 2005 Subject: Visual Commuter LCD Message-ID: <200310031827.h93IRlSl006660@eth0.b.smtp.sonic.net> Martin, I have a working old Commuter as well, with the LCD screen. Well, at least it worked the last time I checked, some years back. I can check again and if so, I'd be happy to sell you the whole thing if you wish, for some small price. Shipping will probably be the bigger cost. Assuming you haven't already found an LCD screen or moved on to another project. Let me know, Paul Haase San Rafael, CA I have a Visual Commuter laptop which I purchased new and still works. It's stored securely in a closet. Unfortunately, I didn't purchased a LCD display for it. Would you by chance know where I may purchased an LCD? From Mehdi.Mir at bakerhughes.com Fri Oct 3 16:28:30 2003 From: Mehdi.Mir at bakerhughes.com (Mir, Mehdi) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:19 2005 Subject: 29F512 flash memory Message-ID: <27621160A506974F9F389E2D27E9BB31ED9C3F@MSGHDCEIS2.ent.bhicorp.com> I came across your website and read that you have 29F512 chips. Are these 28 pin DIP and will they replace the 27C512 eprom? Also if they are compatible are you able to sell me a few pieces. Thanks Mehdi Mir From Mehdi.Mir at bakerhughes.com Fri Oct 3 17:09:06 2003 From: Mehdi.Mir at bakerhughes.com (Mir, Mehdi) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:19 2005 Subject: 27SF512-70 Message-ID: <27621160A506974F9F389E2D27E9BB31ED9C40@MSGHDCEIS2.ent.bhicorp.com> I would like to know if you have any of these chips available. They are the direct flash replacement for the 27C512 that I'm looking for. Thanks Mehdi Mir From philip at awale.qc.ca Fri Oct 3 21:39:58 2003 From: philip at awale.qc.ca (philip@awale.qc.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:19 2005 Subject: Mac SE/30 revival In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 02-Oct-2003 Ian Primus wrote: > > On Thursday, October 2, 2003, at 01:18 PM, liste@artware.qc.ca wrote: > >> I was driving into town when I spoted the aforementioned computer in >> some >> phule's garbage. I stopped and pulled it out. However, when I turn it >> on, the screen comes up 4 grey scan lines, then alternating 8 black >> scan >> lines and 8 grey scan lines. A friend mentioned that this is normal >> boot >> config, that it should then proceed to the happy mac icon and so on. >> He >> asked if the ROM was still in it. I can't get the box open though : I >> don't have the extra special long torx driver to get at the 2 top >> screws. >> And the hex extention bits I have don't fit into the hole. >> >> Anyone have a clue about how to revive this? I'd love to get netbsd >> running on it. >> >> Or is it hopeless? >> >> -Philip >> > > Should be repairable. Here is a site that has just about everything you > ever wanted to know about the Macintosh SE/30. > http://www.biwa.ne.jp/~shamada/fullmac/repairEng.html http://www.biwa.ne.jp/~shamada/fullmac/repairEng.html#SimasiMac Yes! This exactly describes my problem. Now to get the beast apart to see if I can effect a repair. > As for getting the computer open, I made my own tool. Here is what you > will need: Clever. Thank you for the advice. -Philip From george at rachors.com Fri Oct 3 22:48:19 2003 From: george at rachors.com (George Leo Rachor Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:19 2005 Subject: Original IBM PC, Apple Macintosh cube, interest? In-Reply-To: <3F7E30CA.5080204@aurora.regenstrief.org> Message-ID: As one who got his cube the hard way....(Bought it retail) They really are great machines.... Remember that they are fanless (unless you got the high end video card).... Perfect music machine.... George Rachor ========================================================= George L. Rachor Jr. george@rachors.com Hillsboro, Oregon http://rachors.com United States of America Amateur Radio : KD7DCX On Fri, 3 Oct 2003, Gunther Schadow wrote: > Hi, I keep seeing original IBM PCs and Apple Macintosh cubes and > although it's tempting to snatch one for myself this small stuff > isn't really my collector's specialty and I have not enogh room > anyway. But thought that may be some people here think it's > interesting enough to be saved. Since this stuff is shippable > and if there is real big interest I might go through the hassle > and pick such things up ship them. > > regards, > -Gunther > > > From JWDWRD at aol.com Sat Oct 4 00:26:24 2003 From: JWDWRD at aol.com (JWDWRD@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:19 2005 Subject: eagle computer ? Message-ID: If you have any questions about the true story- I would be more than happy to help- after all- he was my father-and yes, I can prove it if necessary as so many people love to doubt that! Jennifer Barnhart-Woodward (for the record, he died June 8th 1983) From freddyboomboom at comcast.net Sat Oct 4 18:40:13 2003 From: freddyboomboom at comcast.net (Andrew Prince) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:19 2005 Subject: HP 7906 drive lives again & stuff Message-ID: <000101c38ad0$dc313970$6c7ba8c0@freddyboomboom> Sorry I don't have any clue to help you on the squirrel cage. But the one thing I wanted to mention to you was to disconnect the solenoid that controls the heads moving out when testing the disk packs. We had a case where a bunch of disk packs were stored in a hot muggy environment for about 9 months or so, and warped on us. When spun up, the disk will make quite the shrill noise indicating it's warped, and if you don't disconnect the solenoid, the drive will crash all over again. I haven't worked on one of those drives in about 10 years... TTFN Andrew From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Sun Oct 5 00:29:44 2003 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:19 2005 Subject: VAXen available. Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.2.20031004221120.02f1b788@66.125.189.29> A number of VAXen are available this week from www.auctionbdi.com. I gave them all of my "spares machines" which I cannot store and no one in the Bay Area wanted. The good news is that BDI will ship them to you pretty much anywhere in the country and the minimum bid is $25. The lot to look for has 3 MV3400's (in BA213 cases), one VAX 4000/300 (in a BA440 case) and one MicroVAX II in a pedastal BA23 case. I don't recall how complete they are, I do thing the 4000/300 is complete except for some DSSI plugs which I needed to bring my 3800 on line. Two of the 3400's have the front "door" (one says MicroVAX 3400, one says VAXServer 3400). If you've got a 3400 or 4000/300 there are plenty of parts to "enhance" your system. I believe the 4000/300 has 192MB of memory but can't swear to it) There is also a MicroVAX 3600 in a H9644 rack. This one I've never looked at in depth other than to note that it has a 4 SCSI drives and a tape but a gap where the SCSI controller had been. Given that it couldn't talk to the disks I pretty much ignored it. Finally there are some PC parts with a nice 17" NEC 5fg monitor (including the special NEC VGA cable). The monitor is nice but not an "Energy Saver" (it stays on as long as power is applied, no standby mode) Probably not of interest to this crowd but I thought I would mention it. --Chuck From RKessell at aol.com Sun Oct 5 10:14:30 2003 From: RKessell at aol.com (RKessell@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:19 2005 Subject: Tic Tac Toe Game on Minivac 601 Message-ID: <150.24d2f98b.2cb18f56@aol.com> Tony.... This must be your lucky day. I saw your message on the internet. The tic tac toe game is in my Minivac 601 Manual. If you e-mail me your fax number I will send it to you. The copyright on the Manual is 1961 by Scientific Development Corporation, Watertown Mass. Hope this is what you are looking for. Regards, Richard From that1address at hotmail.com Sun Oct 5 15:13:07 2003 From: that1address at hotmail.com (Krikor Hovasapian) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:19 2005 Subject: 64 PIN PLCC Socket Message-ID: Joe, I saw your posting on classiccmp.org for the 64 pin PLCC socket. We're doing a project involving a PHILLIPS SAA7111A video decoder chip which is 14x14mm size and has 64 pins but have had a difficult time finding a ZIF socket that's compatible with the chip for PCB implementation. I was wondering if you still have the Textool 64 pin PLCC ZIF socket and how much you'd be willing to sell it for or if you don't have it any longer, where could I find a zif socket for the chip we're using. Thanks... Greg Posting: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctech/2003-May/014414.html _________________________________________________________________ High-speed Internet access as low as $29.95/month (depending on the local service providers in your area). Click here. https://broadband.msn.com From john_a_s2003 at hotmail.com Sun Oct 5 17:27:04 2003 From: john_a_s2003 at hotmail.com (John) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:19 2005 Subject: HP-85 consumerables Message-ID: Hi, I read the earlier messages about DC100A v DC1000 tapes. I was given a DC1000 tape to try and sadly it didn't work in my HP-85. I found the following page which implies the DC1000 requires a stronger magnetic field than DC100A. So it's a bit like typing to use HD floppies in a DD drive. http://www.cybergenetic.ca/ebook/wrh13.htm (BTW these tapes are 0.15" not one eight of an inch). The following firm advertise DC100A, but I haven't bought any from them so don't know if they have any stock: http://www.athana.com/html/minicart.html HTH, John From svs at ropnet.ru Mon Oct 6 03:04:00 2003 From: svs at ropnet.ru (Sergey Svishchev) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:19 2005 Subject: EISA config for Everex STEP DP Message-ID: <20031006080400.GA19314@svs.inside.caravan.ru> G'day, You posted a request for !EVX0101.CFG on classiccmp. Unfortunately, I don't have one; I'm looking for !EVX0002.CFG myself. So far I haven't found any mirrors of everex.com or an archive of CFG files, but here's a clue: http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=UTC200211161343.gAGDhQI15309.aeb%40smtp.cwi.nl I'll be contacting Andries.Brouwer@cwi.nl, perhaps he will make his archive available. -- Sergey Svishchev From jwest at classiccmp.org Mon Oct 6 07:48:29 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:19 2005 Subject: black paper tape = mylar? Message-ID: <00b301c38c08$245e6960$033310ac@kwcorp.com> I was wanting to get some mylar paper tape. There is an auction on Ebay for 6 rolls of "black paper tape"... can one generally assume that black paper tape is mylar and not just paper? The URL is http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2562042672 Can anyone advise if this is likely to be mylar or not? Regards, Jay West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From chejmw at acsu.buffalo.edu Mon Oct 6 07:58:40 2003 From: chejmw at acsu.buffalo.edu (James M. Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:19 2005 Subject: Whats the big deal with the Bigboard II ??? References: <019201c38ba2$e1d71d40$100ddd40@oemcomputer><001801c38ba8$b3d8c3c0$3d7ca418@neo.rr.com> <002f01c38bb5$e01611b0$1a02a8c0@starship1> Message-ID: <00fe01c38c09$909b5880$317ecd80@chem.buffalo.edu> The Big Board was a "clone" of the Xerox 820 system! In fact it could be set up to run exactly like it and use all the software for the system. There were even boards designed later to allow use with Shugart Hard drives. There was at the time of its' high popularity a large following of users, and also a users group and news letter, and Bulletin Board setup to call into and download programs and leave questions and get answers. Quite popular actually. The boards were used in a LOT of Amateur Radio related projects as well! ASCII to anything conversions, there is even a "Modem" program specifically for the Big Board, with speeds up to 19200 Baud. How do I know, I have two and they still run, are in use in Radio Apps. The Xerox 820 was another board that was highly used for various purposes, including terminal node controllers (TNCs) for vhf and uhf two-way radio systems. These programs also ran on the Big Board system requiring only a removal of the Eproms and installing the new ones made it a "dedicated" controller. It is a 4 Mhz Z-80 with 2 SIO, 1 PIO and a driver onboard to run most of the "VDTs" of the era! Software was abundant and easy to install, making it a Plug and Play type microcontroller system with floppy devices, 5.25 and 8 inch for storage. I ran CP/M and a few other systems. Jim WB2FCN http://eshop1.chem.buffalo.edu ----- Original Message ----- From: "Curt vendel" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2003 10:59 PM Subject: Whats the big deal with the Bigboard II ??? > Hi, > > Can someone fill me in on all the interest? I just recently won an > auction on Ebay, primarily I wanted just the cabinet with its 8" disk drives > and power supply so I could install an 8" controller inside of it that > allows Atari 8bits using the SIO bus to use 8" disk drives. > > Well as a bonus the auction came with the Big Board II inside of the > cabinet, I couldn't tell from the photo and figured yeah it was some kind of > single board computer, but since winning the auction I've received 5 emails > inquiring and wanting to buy it from me, so tell me what the story is behind > this board please. > > > > Curt > > > > From chejmw at acsu.buffalo.edu Mon Oct 6 08:35:17 2003 From: chejmw at acsu.buffalo.edu (James M. Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:19 2005 Subject: black paper tape = mylar? References: <00b301c38c08$245e6960$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <017201c38c0e$ae080da0$317ecd80@chem.buffalo.edu> Not necessarily, there are a lot of different tape colors that were in use, some companies had a whole spectrum of colors for use in internal communications for various departments. You should always check to be sure, are you also aware the punch mechanism for mylar has a different head than the standard punches. Careful as the head in constant use may need serious cleaning. Jim WB2FCN http://eshop1.chem.buffalo.edu ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jay West" To: Sent: Monday, October 06, 2003 8:48 AM Subject: black paper tape = mylar? > I was wanting to get some mylar paper tape. There is an auction on Ebay for > 6 rolls of "black paper tape"... can one generally assume that black paper > tape is mylar and not just paper? > > The URL is http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2562042672 > > Can anyone advise if this is likely to be mylar or not? > > Regards, > > Jay West > > --- > [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > > From jfoust at threedee.com Mon Oct 6 08:39:10 2003 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:19 2005 Subject: Mercury delay line memory, revisited Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20031006083743.05a98210@pc> How to turn the Internet into volatile storage: http://isec.pl/papers/juggling_with_packets.txt - John From cb at mythtech.net Mon Oct 6 09:03:40 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:19 2005 Subject: Help! need 400k/800k Mac os 6 or 7 diskettes! Message-ID: >btw I can't seem to get www.mythtech.net... is it up? >it could just be the Nameserver I am stuck with. Its up now, it was up when I tried it. So maybe it was down and fixed itself, or maybe there was a failure elsewhere. Feel free to try again. -chris From ohh at drizzle.com Mon Oct 6 09:06:01 2003 From: ohh at drizzle.com (O. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:19 2005 Subject: black paper tape = mylar? In-Reply-To: <00b301c38c08$245e6960$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: > I was wanting to get some mylar paper tape. There is an auction on Ebay for > 6 rolls of "black paper tape"... can one generally assume that black paper > tape is mylar and not just paper? Not a good idea, I'm afraid. I have a roll of jet-black paper tape here at home amongst about 16 rolls of yellow. (Ironically, I don't have a tape punch at the moment. ) -O.- From jwest at classiccmp.org Mon Oct 6 09:21:04 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:19 2005 Subject: memory refresher on PUTR Message-ID: <017401c38c15$13c53900$033310ac@kwcorp.com> I used to know this, but have forgotten, and now I'm getting ready to dig the software back out... I believe it was a program called PUTR that I used on a PC to read/write 5.25 floppy disks to exchange data with my PDP-11/23 that had an RX50 drive in it. Should the PC drive be a 360k floppy or a 1.2m floppy? Wonder if there is some story as to the history of "disc" vs. "disk" :) HP always used "disc". Jay West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From esharpe at uswest.net Mon Oct 6 09:30:36 2003 From: esharpe at uswest.net (ed sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:19 2005 Subject: black paper tape = mylar? References: <00b301c38c08$245e6960$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <004601c38c16$692dbc40$0100a8c0@SONYDIGITALED> generally the black paper tape is just paper... the Mylar is several different colors but have never seen it in black ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jay West" To: Sent: Monday, October 06, 2003 5:48 AM Subject: black paper tape = mylar? > I was wanting to get some mylar paper tape. There is an auction on Ebay for > 6 rolls of "black paper tape"... can one generally assume that black paper > tape is mylar and not just paper? > > The URL is http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2562042672 > > Can anyone advise if this is likely to be mylar or not? > > Regards, > > Jay West > > --- > [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > > > From jbmcb at hotmail.com Mon Oct 6 09:47:59 2003 From: jbmcb at hotmail.com (Jason McBrien) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:19 2005 Subject: Need IIci cache cards References: <200310061042.DAA09486@floodgap.com> Message-ID: If I remember the benchmark results correctly, the extra 32k speeds up video by a few percent, and "Scientific" operations (IE floating point math) by a few tens of percentage points. I've got a 128k cache card and it speeds up everything by quite a bit. Probably has something to do with the built-in video getting sped up. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cameron Kaiser" To: Sent: Monday, October 06, 2003 6:42 AM Subject: Re: Need IIci cache cards > > > My indefatigable Macintosh IIci NetBSD server got defatigable and its cache > > > card blew (diagnosis made by the fact that when the cache card was pulled, > > > > OK, what exactly is a "Cache Card"? I would guess that it's CPU cache on a > > card of some sort? Is this something limited to the IIci, or do other > > models in the II series use it? > > AFAIK it's specific to the IIci. It goes in the PDS slot and is 32K of L1 > cache for the '030 (basically equivalent to the L1 that the '040 has built > in). The performance upgrade is only moderate, but definitely noticible, and > it's a cheap and almost painless way to get more juice out of a IIci. > > Later releases of the IIci had the cache card included (it was an option on > earlier releases). > > -- > ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- > Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@floodgap.com > -- Hidden DOS secret: add BUGS=OFF to your CONFIG.SYS. ------------------------ > From lbickley at bickleywest.com Mon Oct 6 10:12:07 2003 From: lbickley at bickleywest.com (Lyle Bickley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:19 2005 Subject: black paper tape = mylar? In-Reply-To: <00b301c38c08$245e6960$033310ac@kwcorp.com> References: <00b301c38c08$245e6960$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <200310060812.07141.lbickley@bickleywest.com> I'd contact the seller and ask them if the tapes are oiled (you can smell the oil) - if so, they are not mylar. (I've used a lot of that black/oiled tape - btw, mylar tape is typically not black, IMHO and experience) Lyle On Monday 06 October 2003 05:48, Jay West wrote: > I was wanting to get some mylar paper tape. There is an auction on Ebay for > 6 rolls of "black paper tape"... can one generally assume that black paper > tape is mylar and not just paper? > > The URL is http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2562042672 > > Can anyone advise if this is likely to be mylar or not? > > Regards, > > Jay West > > --- > [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] -- Lyle Bickley Bickley Consulting West Inc. Mountain View, CA 94040 "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero" From allain at panix.com Mon Oct 6 10:24:20 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:19 2005 Subject: VAXen available. References: <6.0.0.22.2.20031004221120.02f1b788@66.125.189.29> Message-ID: <022101c38c1d$ea4a8b80$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> It's not clear how to operate on auctionbdi EG, there are no VAXen listed under 'computers' there right now. http://www.auctionbdi.com/auctions.asp?cat=3 You say "this week"... maybe you should post us when the right date comes up. John A. From curt at atarimuseum.com Mon Oct 6 10:42:33 2003 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:19 2005 Subject: Whats the big deal with the Bigboard II ??? References: <019201c38ba2$e1d71d40$100ddd40@oemcomputer><001801c38ba8$b3d8c3c0$3d7ca418@neo.rr.com><002f01c38bb5$e01611b0$1a02a8c0@starship1> <00fe01c38c09$909b5880$317ecd80@chem.buffalo.edu> Message-ID: <005e01c38c20$75e12f80$1a02a8c0@starship1> James, Thanks for all the great background, well if anyone is interested in the board, please make me an offer, I already have an ATR8000 and an ATR8500 to run CP/M and some DOS programs on my Atari and I have a custom 8" drive controller for the Atari, so I would rather not see this board sit and not be used. Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "James M. Walker" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Monday, October 06, 2003 8:58 AM Subject: Re: Whats the big deal with the Bigboard II ??? > The Big Board was a "clone" of the Xerox 820 system! In fact it could be set > up to run > exactly like it and use all the software for the system. There were even > boards designed > later to allow use with Shugart Hard drives. There was at the time of its' > high popularity > a large following of users, and also a users group and news letter, and > Bulletin Board > setup to call into and download programs and leave questions and get > answers. Quite > popular actually. The boards were used in a LOT of Amateur Radio related > projects > as well! ASCII to anything conversions, there is even a "Modem" program > specifically for > the Big Board, with speeds up to 19200 Baud. How do I know, I have two and > they > still run, are in use in Radio Apps. The Xerox 820 was another board that > was highly > used for various purposes, including terminal node controllers (TNCs) for > vhf and uhf > two-way radio systems. These programs also ran on the Big Board system > requiring only > a removal of the Eproms and installing the new ones made it a "dedicated" > controller. > > It is a 4 Mhz Z-80 with 2 SIO, 1 PIO and a driver onboard to run most of the > "VDTs" > of the era! Software was abundant and easy to install, making it a Plug and > Play type > microcontroller system with floppy devices, 5.25 and 8 inch for storage. I > ran CP/M > and a few other systems. > Jim > WB2FCN > http://eshop1.chem.buffalo.edu > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Curt vendel" > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2003 10:59 PM > Subject: Whats the big deal with the Bigboard II ??? > > > > Hi, > > > > Can someone fill me in on all the interest? I just recently won an > > auction on Ebay, primarily I wanted just the cabinet with its 8" disk > drives > > and power supply so I could install an 8" controller inside of it that > > allows Atari 8bits using the SIO bus to use 8" disk drives. > > > > Well as a bonus the auction came with the Big Board II inside of the > > cabinet, I couldn't tell from the photo and figured yeah it was some kind > of > > single board computer, but since winning the auction I've received 5 > emails > > inquiring and wanting to buy it from me, so tell me what the story is > behind > > this board please. > > > > > > > > Curt > > > > > > > > > From vcf at siconic.com Mon Oct 6 10:58:17 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:19 2005 Subject: black paper tape = mylar? In-Reply-To: <00b301c38c08$245e6960$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 6 Oct 2003, Jay West wrote: > I was wanting to get some mylar paper tape. There is an auction on Ebay for > 6 rolls of "black paper tape"... can one generally assume that black paper > tape is mylar and not just paper? > > The URL is http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2562042672 > > Can anyone advise if this is likely to be mylar or not? That wouldn't be a prudent assumption. I have a bunch of programs on black paper tape and it is indeed paper. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From pds3 at ix.netcom.com Mon Oct 6 10:39:13 2003 From: pds3 at ix.netcom.com (Shannon Hoskins) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:19 2005 Subject: Garage sale, DEC 3000/500 $50, HSZ40 $25, ... References: <200310032219.h93MJvUu004978@onyx.spiritone.com> Message-ID: <000c01c38c1f$ff2b2bc0$7f3ba5d1@shannon> Hello Zane, Where are you located? Sincerely, Shannon Hoskins ----- Original Message ----- From: "Zane H. Healy" To: Sent: Friday, October 03, 2003 3:19 PM Subject: Re: Garage sale, DEC 3000/500 $50, HSZ40 $25, ... > > Am I crazy to sell a DEC 3000/500 server (desk side) for $50? I > > believe it's got all the RAM it can fit and disk in and lots SCSI > > plugs out. My HSZ40s go for $25 a piece. My HP9000K400 with 2xDDS2 > > drives and 30 GB (?) RAID array and HP Terminal all in one rack go > > for $100. > > > > Am I crazy or just fed up about stuff taking space in my garage? > > I can't really comment on the HP (though it might be a little low). The > DEC3000/500 sounds about right. The HSZ40's are old enough to probably be > reasonable. > > Zane From dholland at woh.rr.com Mon Oct 6 12:14:56 2003 From: dholland at woh.rr.com (David Holland) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:19 2005 Subject: Used Atari 2600 Game Cartridge goes for over $70 In-Reply-To: <001201c38bda$37ccb5c0$3d7ca418@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 6 Oct 2003, TeoZ wrote: > easily, just be carefull. Then again the stuff I look for isnt that > expensive, I dont think I spent more then $150 on any 1 item on ebay and > that was when I started 3 years ago. Eh, I have. SGI Octane, MXI graphics, 195Mhz R10K, 256Mb mem, No Disk 400$. A year later, I still consider 400$ a pretty reasonable deal. The only reason I considered it was the seller was local.... I picked it up in person. Obligatory ontopic piece: I've a SGI Crimson w VGXT too, Anyone got a sled or and/or skins they want to get rid of cheap.. :-) David From hofmanwb at worldonline.nl Mon Oct 6 12:46:43 2003 From: hofmanwb at worldonline.nl (W.B.(Wim) Hofman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:19 2005 Subject: memory refresher on PUTR References: <017401c38c15$13c53900$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <001501c38c32$071e8540$8594f0c3@computer4> 360 Wim ----- Original Message ----- From: Jay West To: Sent: Monday, October 06, 2003 4:21 PM Subject: memory refresher on PUTR > I used to know this, but have forgotten, and now I'm getting ready to dig > the software back out... > > I believe it was a program called PUTR that I used on a PC to read/write > 5.25 floppy disks to exchange data with my PDP-11/23 that had an RX50 drive > in it. Should the PC drive be a 360k floppy or a 1.2m floppy? > > Wonder if there is some story as to the history of "disc" vs. "disk" :) HP > always used "disc". > > Jay West > > --- > [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > From eric at brouhaha.com Mon Oct 6 13:00:41 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:19 2005 Subject: black paper tape = mylar? In-Reply-To: <00b301c38c08$245e6960$033310ac@kwcorp.com> References: <00b301c38c08$245e6960$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <39309.64.169.63.74.1065463241.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > I was wanting to get some mylar paper tape. There is an auction on Ebay > for > 6 rolls of "black paper tape"... can one generally assume that black paper > tape is mylar and not just paper? No. All the black "paper tape" I've ever used was in fact paper. From eric at brouhaha.com Mon Oct 6 13:02:39 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:19 2005 Subject: memory refresher on PUTR In-Reply-To: <017401c38c15$13c53900$033310ac@kwcorp.com> References: <017401c38c15$13c53900$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <39321.64.169.63.74.1065463359.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > I believe it was a program called PUTR that I used on a PC to read/write > 5.25 floppy disks to exchange data with my PDP-11/23 that had an RX50 > drive > in it. Should the PC drive be a 360k floppy or a 1.2m floppy? 1.2M. The RX50 is an 80-track single sided drive, so their is no way to read or write the discs in a 40-track 360k drive. But a 1.2M drive will work fine. From waltje at pdp11.nl Mon Oct 6 13:30:57 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:19 2005 Subject: memory refresher on PUTR In-Reply-To: <39321.64.169.63.74.1065463359.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 6 Oct 2003, Eric Smith wrote: > > I believe it was a program called PUTR that I used on a PC to read/write > > 5.25 floppy disks to exchange data with my PDP-11/23 that had an RX50 > > drive > > in it. Should the PC drive be a 360k floppy or a 1.2m floppy? > > 1.2M. The RX50 is an 80-track single sided drive, so their is no way > to read or write the discs in a 40-track 360k drive. But a 1.2M drive > will work fine. Hmm.. Jay: I stand corrected. Indeed, they're 80tr, not 40tr... --f From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Oct 6 10:33:27 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:19 2005 Subject: 27SF512-70 In-Reply-To: <27621160A506974F9F389E2D27E9BB31ED9C40@MSGHDCEIS2.ent.bhic orp.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031006113327.007d6bb0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Somebody needs to tell this clown that this isn't his private procurement list! Joe At 05:09 PM 10/3/03 -0500, you wrote: >I would like to know if you have any of these chips available. They are >the direct flash replacement for the 27C512 that I'm looking for. > >Thanks >Mehdi Mir > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Oct 6 10:35:36 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:19 2005 Subject: black paper tape = mylar? In-Reply-To: <00b301c38c08$245e6960$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031006113536.007d76a0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 07:48 AM 10/6/03 -0500, you wrote: >I was wanting to get some mylar paper tape. There is an auction on Ebay for >6 rolls of "black paper tape"... can one generally assume that black paper >tape is mylar and not just paper? NO! I have several boxs of black PAPER tape so they do (did!) make the stuff. Joe > >The URL is http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2562042672 > >Can anyone advise if this is likely to be mylar or not? > >Regards, > >Jay West > >--- >[This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > > From kd7bcy at teleport.com Mon Oct 6 13:34:42 2003 From: kd7bcy at teleport.com (John Rollins) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:19 2005 Subject: DEC cards available Message-ID: I got these cards a while back(I think I asked what they were here on the list back in 2001), mostly MicroVAX II cards I think, all Q-bus. I'm mostly interested in getting these out of the way... I have no plans for building or keeping spares for a MicroVAX or anything beside my 11/84. Not sure what they're worth, and keep in mind they are untested. Make an offer plus actual shipping - I'll also consider trades for Unibus cards for my 11/84. Whatever the list doesn't want I'll probably put on eBay(I'll give you guys a week or two for those that don't keep up with their email very well). National Semiconductor NS638 - memory card with a 50-pin connector on the front Sigma Information Systems DZV11 clone unknown Emulex - marked TU0210401 M7551-CA MSV11-QC Q 4-Mbyte 22-bit parity/CSR MOS RAM M7164 KDA50-Q Q-bus SDI adapter 1 of 2 M7606-AF MicroVAX II CPU M7608-BC not in guide? MicroVAX II RAM M7608-BF M7516-YM DELQA-M Q Qbus to Ethernet Turbo Module, Q22 M8053-MA DMV11 Microprogrammed controller (needs one of M5930-M5931) with DDCMP control ROM (point-to-point or multidrop) I have three of these: M3104 DHV11-A Q 8-line Asynchronous Multiplexor, with DMA -- /------------------------------------\ | http://jrollins.tripod.com/ | | KD7BCY kd7bcy@teleport.com | \------------------------------------/ From kd7bcy at teleport.com Mon Oct 6 13:07:28 2003 From: kd7bcy at teleport.com (John Rollins) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:19 2005 Subject: Am I seeing things? Message-ID: Is it just me or are there a lot of people posting to the list responding to things that are non existent or ancient from an archive or something? Especially these people mentioning a web site and asking to buy something. Seems that there has been a lot of that lately. -- /------------------------------------\ | http://jrollins.tripod.com/ | | KD7BCY kd7bcy@teleport.com | \------------------------------------/ From kd7bcy at teleport.com Mon Oct 6 14:10:09 2003 From: kd7bcy at teleport.com (John Rollins) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:19 2005 Subject: Help! need 400k/800k Mac os 6 or 7 diskettes! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >Apple stopped having the drives read and write 400 and 800 k disks a >while ago. Actually the System does that... I don't remember when though. I think it might have been System 8 that stopped reading 400k, I remember because I was real mad about not being able to use my PM6500 to do disks for my 128k, and then I ended up with an iMac and the iDock doesn't work under X(until you pull the cable going to the ADB and serial that is) but the USB floppy only handles 1.4MB anyway! So now it's time to get the LC up and running again I guess. But if you have Mac with the SuperDrive(floppy, not DVD-R!) in it, and you have something prior to System 8/9, you can do 400k disks all day long. Just keep a System 7 boot disk around! That oughta work with anything prior to a G3. -- /------------------------------------\ | http://jrollins.tripod.com/ | | KD7BCY kd7bcy@teleport.com | \------------------------------------/ From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Oct 6 14:12:48 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:19 2005 Subject: Am I seeing things? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >Is it just me or are there a lot of people posting to the list responding to things that are non existent or ancient from an archive or something? Especially these people mentioning a web site and asking to buy something. Seems that there has been a lot of that lately. I must confess, I was wondering about the "Re: VAXen available" message... It made now sense to me. Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From esharpe at uswest.net Mon Oct 6 15:18:06 2003 From: esharpe at uswest.net (Ed Sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:19 2005 Subject: Am I seeing things? References: Message-ID: <000d01c38c46$f474cac0$262e98ac@aoldsl.net> and I thought I was the one imagining it! ed! ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Rollins" To: Sent: Monday, October 06, 2003 11:07 AM Subject: Am I seeing things? > Is it just me or are there a lot of people posting to the list > responding to things that are non existent or ancient from an archive > or something? Especially these people mentioning a web site and > asking to buy something. Seems that there has been a lot of that > lately. > > > -- > > /------------------------------------\ > | http://jrollins.tripod.com/ | > | KD7BCY kd7bcy@teleport.com | > \------------------------------------/ > > From jwest at classiccmp.org Mon Oct 6 14:12:48 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:19 2005 Subject: Am I seeing things? References: Message-ID: <00b001c38c3d$d4fdc380$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Yes, there is a public archive of the list postings. I kinda thought that's what the public archives were FOR? I especially like it when they talk about ancient things *S* I filter a lot of these so they never hit the list. But often I let them through because I feel that is what we are here for.. to be a resource. Maybe I'm being too lenient? J > Is it just me or are there a lot of people posting to the list > responding to things that are non existent or ancient from an archive > or something? Especially these people mentioning a web site and > asking to buy something. Seems that there has been a lot of that > lately. --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From jpl15 at panix.com Mon Oct 6 14:30:21 2003 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:19 2005 Subject: 27SF512-70 In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20031006113327.007d6bb0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20031006113327.007d6bb0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 6 Oct 2003, Joe wrote: > Somebody needs to tell this clown that this isn't his private procurement > list! > > Joe Hey Joe... decaf, man - remember: Decaf!! ;} Anyway - do recall that whenever someone Googles for a specific part, it is possible that they get pointed to an old message from Classiccmp in an archive - and so they don't really have any way of knowing that they are adressing a list of amateur collectors - so ya cut 'em some slack a bit.. And just think - what if it was *you* that just happened to have a nice stash of them chips the poor guy is desperate for... woo hoo!! Cheers John From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Oct 6 14:34:46 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:19 2005 Subject: FA: HP 3000 cards and Omnibook Docking Station Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031006153446.007f3d70@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Joe From vcf at siconic.com Mon Oct 6 14:40:51 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:19 2005 Subject: Am I seeing things? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 6 Oct 2003, John Rollins wrote: > Is it just me or are there a lot of people posting to the list > responding to things that are non existent or ancient from an archive > or something? Especially these people mentioning a web site and > asking to buy something. Seems that there has been a lot of that > lately. It comes in spurts. I think Jay is still (hopefully) working on a solution ;) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From waltje at pdp11.nl Mon Oct 6 14:41:37 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:19 2005 Subject: Am I seeing things? In-Reply-To: <000d01c38c46$f474cac0$262e98ac@aoldsl.net> Message-ID: This seems to be coming our way in waves.... ahwell. --f From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Oct 6 14:42:39 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:19 2005 Subject: Am I seeing things? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031006154239.007b9b70@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 11:07 AM 10/6/03 -0700, you wrote: >Is it just me or are there a lot of people posting to the list >responding to things that are non existent or ancient from an archive >or something? They seem to be responding to things out of the archive. Most of them are OLD and a couple of them are really OT. Personally I'd like to filter out any messages from non-members, or at least have them pre-viewed and approved by someone. My $.02 worth, Joe Especially these people mentioning a web site and >asking to buy something. Seems that there has been a lot of that >lately. > > >-- > >/------------------------------------\ >| http://jrollins.tripod.com/ | >| KD7BCY kd7bcy@teleport.com | >\------------------------------------/ > From teoz at neo.rr.com Mon Oct 6 14:45:30 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:19 2005 Subject: Help! need 400k/800k Mac os 6 or 7 diskettes! References: Message-ID: <010b01c38c42$66277d20$3d7ca418@neo.rr.com> I have use my "newer" macs 8500/7500/840av/950/IIfx to make 800k disks for my IIgs and have noticed that the auto inject 1.44 drives use on the older systems (IIfx, 840av, 950) have no problems making disks that are readable on the IIgs while the 8500/7500 non inject floppies cant do it reliably. So your better off using an old quadra to make 800k disks for older machines. I have no idea about writing 400k disks because I dont have any machines that use them. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Oct 6 14:47:09 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:19 2005 Subject: Am I seeing things? In-Reply-To: <00b001c38c3d$d4fdc380$033310ac@kwcorp.com> References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031006154709.007ba540@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 02:12 PM 10/6/03 -0500, you wrote: >Yes, there is a public archive of the list postings. I kinda thought that's >what the public archives were FOR? I especially like it when they talk >about ancient things *S* > >I filter a lot of these so they never hit the list. But often I let them >through because I feel that is what we are here for.. to be a resource. >Maybe I'm being too lenient? Probably. I've replied to a couple of people looking for things and NONE of them has ever responded so I seldom bother any more. Joe From ohh at drizzle.com Mon Oct 6 14:47:07 2003 From: ohh at drizzle.com (O. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:19 2005 Subject: RCS/RI Still In Existence? Message-ID: Does anybody know if the Retrocomputing Society of Rhode Island (http://osfn.org/rcs/) is still around? I've sent a couple of e-mails their way, and tried their phone number, but not with any luck. I saw one of the things on their online "wish-list" up for auction on eBay, and thought about having a go at getting it for them, but it'd be nice to know if they still needed it first. (Not to mention making sure I wasn't bidding _against_ them. ) -O.- From marvin at rain.org Mon Oct 6 14:58:17 2003 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:19 2005 Subject: VCF - Stuff for Sale Message-ID: <3F81C959.8B4B6FAA@rain.org> Rather than post the stuff here, a link to the things I'll be selling at VCF is at: http://www.rain.org/~marvin/vcf.txt As the week goes by, I'll be adding to the list and updating it as necessary. From esharpe at uswest.net Mon Oct 6 16:12:13 2003 From: esharpe at uswest.net (Ed Sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:19 2005 Subject: Am I seeing things? References: <00b001c38c3d$d4fdc380$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <004b01c38c4e$83718ae0$262e98ac@aoldsl.net> no we just got confused as we all belong to both lists.... but it was freaky when it would appear as a group on the other list.... sometimes we forget there are two lists... no problem just tempory confusion all is well! ed! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jay West" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Monday, October 06, 2003 12:12 PM Subject: Re: Am I seeing things? > Yes, there is a public archive of the list postings. I kinda thought that's > what the public archives were FOR? I especially like it when they talk > about ancient things *S* > > I filter a lot of these so they never hit the list. But often I let them > through because I feel that is what we are here for.. to be a resource. > Maybe I'm being too lenient? > > J > > Is it just me or are there a lot of people posting to the list > > responding to things that are non existent or ancient from an archive > > or something? Especially these people mentioning a web site and > > asking to buy something. Seems that there has been a lot of that > > lately. > > --- > [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > > > From RMaxwell at atlantissi.com Mon Oct 6 15:24:35 2003 From: RMaxwell at atlantissi.com (Robert Maxwell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:20 2005 Subject: Intel Programmer IPPS format Message-ID: <9726BA9DE867D51183B900B0D0AB85F8013E4873@INETMAIL> Dave, your hazy memory is great. You just filled in a critical blank that has made a world of difference. Searching the planet for references to "IPPS" turned up nothing, but "OMF" is still quite nicely documented on the Web. My favorite file-format reference, www.wotsit.org, has a document for OMF, as do some other sites. Armed with this knowledge, I can now look at modifying an old Motorola S-record to Intel Hex converter with a new front end to suck up the OMF records and spit them out in Hex. All the best, Bob Maxwell rmaxwell@atlantissi.com Dave Mabry wrote: > Now, as is normal for me, this is hazy, but I think I > remember what you > are talking about. > > Intel used a format they called "object module format" that > had header > information on each block, and several possible blocks. As I recall, > the MCS48 family, due to its limited memory addressibility, used the > same OMF (object module format) as the 8080. > > Naturally, since Intel defined it, all their tools could read > and write > it. IPPS was the name of the software used to read and write EPROMS, > etc, using Intel's iUP-201 programmer. > > All that being said, I think I can help you. If you don't > have anything > that can read and understand Intel's OMF, I do. I have a > working system > that can execute IPPS. There are other utilities in the > Intel operating > system, ISIS-II, that can also do this. I should be able to convert > your OMF file to an Intel HEX format file. Intel HEX is very > common and > most programmers can understand it. It is also block oriented, but > ascii characters rather than pure binary. > > Sorry to be so wordy, but bottom line is this. (into > Technicolor dream > mode) If you send me your OMF file I can convert it to HEX > and send it > back to you. Hope that will help. > > Dave > > Robert Maxwell wrote: > > This will meet the on-topic age requirement, at least... > > > > For programming devices like processors and EPROMS with > an Intel Universal > > Programmer, > > a file format was used, called "IPPS." I need to program > 8749 processors > > from files > > in IPPS format, and have no working Universal Programmer. > > > > The format appears to be a block-oriented binary, with a > file header > > identifying the > > target device, and headers of indeterminate size preceding > sections of > > binary code. > > Nobody I spoke to at Intel recognizes it. > > > > Does anybody remember, or have access to, > documentation/data or (dreaming > > in Technicolor(R)) > > a utility to convert IPPS files into a less-unique format, > say binary or > > Intel Hex? This > > would save me from having to type in hex values from an old > listing to > > regenerate the code. From waltje at pdp11.nl Mon Oct 6 15:27:55 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:20 2005 Subject: Am I seeing things? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 6 Oct 2003, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > It comes in spurts. I think Jay is still (hopefully) working on a > solution ;) Yeah, lets hope Jay's working on his spurts. --f From kd7bcy at teleport.com Mon Oct 6 15:33:49 2003 From: kd7bcy at teleport.com (John Rollins Jr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:20 2005 Subject: DEC cards available Update Message-ID: <11306683.1065472434057.JavaMail.root@waldorf.psp.pas.earthlink.net> Started to go fast! These are still available: National Semiconductor NS638 - memory card with a 50-pin connector on the front Sigma Information Systems DZV11 clone unknown Emulex - marked TU0210401 M7164 KDA50-Q Q-bus SDI adapter 1 of 2 M7606-AF MicroVAX II CPU M7608-BC not in guide? MicroVAX II RAM M7608-BF I have three of these: M3104 DHV11-A Q 8-line Asynchronous Multiplexor, with DMA These have been spoken for: M7551-CA MSV11-QC Q 4-Mbyte 22-bit parity/CSR MOS RAM M7516-YM DELQA-M Q Qbus to Ethernet Turbo Module, Q22 M8053-MA DMV11 Microprogrammed controller (needs one of M5930-M5931) with DDCMP control ROM (point-to-point or multidrop) Thanks! -JR From fernande at internet1.net Mon Oct 6 15:30:40 2003 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:20 2005 Subject: Am I seeing things? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3F81D0F0.9090108@internet1.net> That was a reply to a message that Chuck McMannis posted. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Zane H. Healy wrote: >>Is it just me or are there a lot of people posting to the list responding to things that are non existent or ancient from an archive or something? Especially these people mentioning a web site and asking to buy something. Seems that there has been a lot of that lately. > > > I must confess, I was wondering about the "Re: VAXen available" message... It made now sense to me. > > Zane > From cb at mythtech.net Mon Oct 6 15:37:07 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:20 2005 Subject: Am I seeing things? Message-ID: >I filter a lot of these so they never hit the list. But often I let them >through because I feel that is what we are here for.. to be a resource. >Maybe I'm being too lenient? I'm wondering if you can somehow mark the message as one that came from someone off list. I bring this up, because I've been confused by some and wondering if responses should go onlist or off list. If the poster is off list, then responses should go directly to them, or they won't get their response for a few months until the archives have circulated thru google and the likes. just my thoughts, I'm not trying to imply it needs to be followed. Nor trying to start a discussion on the topic. -chris From cb at mythtech.net Mon Oct 6 15:39:32 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:20 2005 Subject: Help! need 400k/800k Mac os 6 or 7 diskettes! Message-ID: >>Apple stopped having the drives read and write 400 and 800 k disks a >>while ago. > >Actually the System does that... I don't remember when though. Well, yes, I didn't mean to imply that it was a drive limit. Just that Apple stopped letting a user read and write 400 and 800 K disks a while ago (I believe you are right and it was OS 8, but I'm not postive). -chris From jpl15 at panix.com Mon Oct 6 15:44:31 2003 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:20 2005 Subject: Am I seeing things? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 6 Oct 2003, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Mon, 6 Oct 2003, John Rollins wrote: > > > Is it just me or are there a lot of people posting to the list [snippage] > > It comes in spurts. I think Jay is still (hopefully) working on a > solution ;) > As Jay mentioned - I'm not altogether sure that these messages from folks are a Bad Thing - it never hurts to have 'fresh' sources for collection related possiblilties. Recall that the PDP 11/44 system I own was rescued from a Big Corporation (and certain death) due to the ex-sysop finding classiccmp quite by accident. Now, in the case of blatant commercial exploitative type ads, or spam, then of course it should hopefully be diverted to /dev/nul. But I think a little tolerance shoyuld be shown for folks who are just researching parts and systems - at least we can be polite in our explanations. And yes, these type of "I was searching for X and found your site.." messages *do* seem to come in waves... I dunno... Cheers John From geoffr at zipcon.net Mon Oct 6 15:57:51 2003 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:20 2005 Subject: Need IIci cache cards In-Reply-To: References: <200310061042.DAA09486@floodgap.com> Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.2.20031006135647.04a4b0f0@mail.zipcon.net> At 07:47 AM 10/6/03, you wrote: >If I remember the benchmark results correctly, the extra 32k speeds up video >by a few percent, and "Scientific" operations (IE floating point math) by a >few tens of percentage points. > >I've got a 128k cache card and it speeds up everything by quite a bit. >Probably has something to do with the built-in video getting sped up. I have a cache card in my IICX :) ok, so it's an Diimo accellerator with cache on it on an adaptor :) but it speeds everything WAY up... 50 Mhz 030 :) From marvin at rain.org Mon Oct 6 16:07:33 2003 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:20 2005 Subject: Posting times References: <000d01c38c46$f474cac0$262e98ac@aoldsl.net> Message-ID: <3F81D995.9FB4C6DF@rain.org> Anyone else seeing extended times (< 15 minutes or so) before their posts get to the list? Kind of annoying to post something and not see it pop up on the list within a relatively short time!!! From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Oct 6 16:31:41 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:20 2005 Subject: Betr.: Acorn Econet In-Reply-To: from "Eelco Huininga" at Oct 6, 3 09:11:19 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1516 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20031006/6abf51aa/attachment.ksh From dundas at caltech.edu Mon Oct 6 17:08:18 2003 From: dundas at caltech.edu (John A. Dundas III) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:20 2005 Subject: GE 73 bulbs for RL02 Message-ID: Can anyone recommend a good source for the GE 73 bulbs used in the front panel switches of the RL02? A web search turned up Atlanta Light Bulbs. They claim to have them for $0.99/ea, minimum quantity 10. However when you try to check out, the minimum $ order is ~$30. I don't mind buying 10, but 30 is too many and I'm not really short on other bulbs at this time. Any suggestions? Thanks, John From jpl15 at panix.com Mon Oct 6 17:10:18 2003 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:20 2005 Subject: VCF Want: Pertec formatters for Kennedy 9100 Message-ID: As message header states: I'm looking for one or two Pertec formatter cards for Kennedy 91xx series tape drives - with cables, if possible. Have $$$ for same - will be at VCF looking to trade $ for Stuff. Also, I'm looking for 2 or 3 DEC RL02 drives, one at least in good working shape - with an interconnect cable and terminator. Can pick up in Bay Area.... Cheerz John From aek at spies.com Mon Oct 6 17:21:49 2003 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:20 2005 Subject: VCF Want: Pertec formatters for Kennedy 9100 Message-ID: <200310062221.h96MLnbh015108@spies.com> > I'm looking for one or two Pertec formatter > cards for Kennedy 91xx series tape drives - with cables, if possible. 91xx formatters are separate rack mounted boxes (9219) www.spies.com/aek/pdf/kennedy/006-0002-01_9219_formatter.pdf is the manual for the 9219 If you are using these on DEC systems, you may have better luck finding embedded Unibus or Qbus formatters made by Emulex, Plessey, Dilog, etc. From patrick at evocative.com Mon Oct 6 17:23:37 2003 From: patrick at evocative.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:20 2005 Subject: SemiDisk Solid State Disk Emulator Message-ID: Does anyone have a PDF scan of the manual for a SemiDisk solid-state disk emulator? Please contact me if you do... --Patrick From ian_primus at yahoo.com Mon Oct 6 17:24:23 2003 From: ian_primus at yahoo.com (Ian Primus) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:20 2005 Subject: Help! need 400k/800k Mac os 6 or 7 diskettes! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: IIRC, you could no longer use 400k disks as of System 7.6, but you can still use 800k disks up through System 9, provided of course that you have a Mac with an internal floppy drive. The external USB drives are, for the most part, PC clone laptop style drives, and therefore can not read or write the GCR disks. But, you _can_ write 400k floppies on System 7.6 and up with Disk Copy. You can't mount the image, and you can't mount the disk you created, but it does work. Once again, you have to have a Mac with an internal floppy drive. Why Apple stopped offering floppy drives, I don't know. I know that the first peripheral I bought for my G4 was a floppy drive, and I still hate the fact that it's slow as hell, and doesn't have auto eject. Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com On Monday, October 6, 2003, at 04:39 PM, chris wrote: >>> Apple stopped having the drives read and write 400 and 800 k disks a >>> while ago. >> >> Actually the System does that... I don't remember when though. > > Well, yes, I didn't mean to imply that it was a drive limit. Just that > Apple stopped letting a user read and write 400 and 800 K disks a while > ago (I believe you are right and it was OS 8, but I'm not postive). > > -chris > > From aek at spies.com Mon Oct 6 17:56:36 2003 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:20 2005 Subject: Posting times Message-ID: <200310062256.h96Mua2p019520@spies.com> Anyone else seeing extended times (< 15 minutes or so) before their posts get to the list? -- I'm more concerned that the archive sort by date isn't corrected for local time zone. Since the sort by thread doesn't always work right, I just watch the list from the archive, but now the replies can show up in the list before the original question, depending on when the original message was posted. From bshannon at tiac.net Mon Oct 6 18:05:02 2003 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:20 2005 Subject: black paper tape = mylar? References: <00b301c38c08$245e6960$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <3F81F51E.1060507@tiac.net> Mylar paper tape has never come in black, as far as I know. Black paper tape was sold for use with photoelectric paper tape readers like HP's, which work, sometimes with yellow paper (until any oil get on the tape anyway). But the black stuff makes even a sloppy optical reader work great, and it does not kill the edges on your punch like Mylar will do. Jay West wrote: >I was wanting to get some mylar paper tape. There is an auction on Ebay for >6 rolls of "black paper tape"... can one generally assume that black paper >tape is mylar and not just paper? > >The URL is http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2562042672 > >Can anyone advise if this is likely to be mylar or not? > >Regards, > >Jay West > >--- >[This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > > From kittstr at access-4-free.com Sun Oct 5 23:29:54 2003 From: kittstr at access-4-free.com (Andrew Strouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:20 2005 Subject: Fat (512K) Mac Revival? References: <20031005170913.58590.qmail@web13401.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000201c38c5e$c068e460$7d444a43@amscomputer> There doesn't seem to be any battery in the back at all. Where do I go about getting one of those? I haven't cracked the unit open yet but I will and check the power supply. Andrew Strouse ( kittstr@access-4-free.com ) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Al Hartman" To: Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2003 1:09 PM Subject: Re: Fat (512K) Mac Revival? > It could be something as simple as a bad PRAM battery. > There's a little door in the upper back, that has a > battery in it. > > Open it and see if there's a battery in there. If it > hasn't exploded... You probably can try replacing that > as a start. > > Next would be the Power Supply/Analog board. > > But, yes... You should be able to buy a replacement > cheaper than fixing that unit. Though, you might find > buyers for the parts to help fund that. > > Regards, > Al Hartman > > > > From: "Andrew Strouse" > > > > The recent discussion about reviving a Mac SE/30 > > reminded me that I have a "fat mac" in my closet > > collecting dust. I found it after a yard sale a > > few years ago. ( I like to go late and see what > > finds I can get for nothing because the people just > > want the stuff out of their house.) I remember > > when I plugged it in, nothing happened. No sounds, > > lights, bars, patterns, sad/happy macs, etc. Does > > anyone have any suggestions of what to do to > > attempt to get it running. Is it worth it? (I'd > > like to play with it but could I find another one > > that works for less than it will take to fix?) > > It came with a large box of disks, and external > > drive, mouse and keyboard, so it seemed like a > > complete system, except that it doesn't work. > > > > Thanks in advance. > > > > Andrew Strouse > >( kittstr@access-4-free.com ) > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search > http://shopping.yahoo.com > From cb at mythtech.net Mon Oct 6 18:11:46 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:20 2005 Subject: Help! need 400k/800k Mac os 6 or 7 diskettes! Message-ID: >IIRC, you could no longer use 400k disks as of System 7.6, but you can >still use 800k disks up through System 9, provided of course that you >have a Mac with an internal floppy drive. I can't reliably read or write 800K disks in my PM 6500 with OS 9.0.4. Haven't been able to for a few OS versions. Also can't in my PM 9600. It attempts it, and is sometimes works for reading an 800K disk. It can also on occasion write to 800K disks, but it can never format them. It will attempt a format, it will even complete it without complaint... but the disk will be undreadable in machines running older OS versions. If I format in an older machine, I can then get a few writes to the disk before the data is unreadable in an older machine (and if the disk is freshly formatted, then I can usually get one or two reads as well). So based on personal experience, I just chalk it up that Apple stopped letting you do both 400 and 800 (with 400 being right out) >Why Apple stopped >offering floppy drives, I don't know. Cost cutting. They were trying to get the iMac down to as cheap a build as possible, and they knew that most consumers would have little need for a floppy drive in the long run. So it was a place to shave a few bucks off the manufacturing costs. Alas when they choose to do it, it was still a tad premature, as yes, in the LONG run, most consumers wouldn't need a floppy drive... but until they migrated their entire collection of old disks to something else, then they still needed it (but its a typical catch-22... if Apple left the drive in, no consumer would migrate their stuff in anticipation for the removal of the drive, so the consumer wasn't going to stop needing the drive, until right after the drive was no longer there) -chris From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Oct 6 14:32:19 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:20 2005 Subject: memory refresher on PUTR In-Reply-To: "Jay West" "memory refresher on PUTR" (Oct 6, 9:21) References: <017401c38c15$13c53900$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <10310062032.ZM20087@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Oct 6, 9:21, Jay West wrote: > I believe it was a program called PUTR that I used on a PC to read/write > 5.25 floppy disks to exchange data with my PDP-11/23 that had an RX50 drive > in it. Should the PC drive be a 360k floppy or a 1.2m floppy? Ideally, neither: 80-track double density. An RX50 is only single-sided (80 tracks, 10 sectors of 512 bytes per track), but obviously a double-sided drive will do, and that includes a "1.2M" drive if it's capable of doing DD as well as HD. > Wonder if there is some story as to the history of "disc" vs. "disk" :) HP > always used "disc". "disc" is from the Greek "discus", and is (or was, until recently) the more commonly accepted English spelling; "disk" is an Americanism which has spread to the UK. Acorn always used "disc" as well. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Oct 6 18:24:04 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:20 2005 Subject: Morely Electronics Teletext Adapter. In-Reply-To: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) "Morely Electronics Teletext Adapter." (Oct 5, 18:24) References: Message-ID: <10310070024.ZM20222@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Oct 5, 18:24, Tony Duell wrote: > While looking for Econet bits, I found the above-mentioned unit (Morely > Electronics Teletext Adapter). Morley, not Morely :-) > It's clearly a BBC periperal. On the back is Belling-Lee coaxial socket > (standard TV aerial connector), and a piece of 6 way ribbon cable. This > splits, 4 wires go to a 20 pin 2-row IDC header socket (presumably BBC > User Port, the connections would then be +5V, Ground, and 2 lines for I2C > SCL and SDA). The other 2 wires go to a plug to fit the BBC's power > outlet socket, to get 12V. > Does anyone know anything about this unit, and more importantly, anyone > know where I can get the software to use it (it's certainly not > compatable with the Acorn Teletext unit). You need the Advanced Teletext Software ROM, which I've got in my archive. There's also an additional extension ROM. It does neat things like autotuning, and is reputedly rather superior to the Acorn Teletext Adaptor, though not having ever owned a Morley one, I wouldn't really know. Ther'es also some inofrmation on it on The BBC Lives! website. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Oct 6 14:28:15 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:20 2005 Subject: black paper tape = mylar? In-Reply-To: Lyle Bickley "Re: black paper tape = mylar?" (Oct 6, 8:12) References: <00b301c38c08$245e6960$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <200310060812.07141.lbickley@bickleywest.com> Message-ID: <10310062028.ZM20082@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Oct 6, 8:12, Lyle Bickley wrote: > I'd contact the seller and ask them if the tapes are oiled (you can smell the > oil) - if so, they are not mylar. (I've used a lot of that black/oiled tape > - btw, mylar tape is typically not black, IMHO and experience) You can often *feel* the oil. By a curious coincidence, I was talking to a guy, this morning, who still sells paper tape and used to be involved in its manufacture. He told me how it was oiled in bulk, and how they used to do it in small batches for special jobs. I now know how to oil my own :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Oct 6 15:40:03 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:20 2005 Subject: Acorn Econet In-Reply-To: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) "Acorn Econet" (Oct 5, 18:20) References: Message-ID: <10310062140.ZM20108@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Oct 5, 18:20, Tony Duell wrote: > Does anyone have any experience with Acorn Econet (Acorn's low-cost, > fairly low-speed network)? I used to install Econet systems, and upgrade and repair Beebs with Econet. I must have installed or re-installed a few hundred Econet interfaces. A certain large dealer once tried to save money by farming out BBC Model Bs for Econet upgrade jobs to his local ITeC (a sort of training centre of out-of-work youngsters). An upgrade includes lots of 10K, 100K, and 1M resistors, a handful of capacitors, and a bunch of ICs, and on early BBCs most of the passive components get fitted vertically in very tight spaces; not surprisingly, the majority of those upgrades didn't work. I got to be very good at faultfinding on those things before the dealer finally conceded that it would be considerably cheaper to just get me to fit the upgrades in the first place :-) > Digging in my junk box (well, more like junk room :-)), I've found a > couple of Econet clock boxes (one Acorn, one SJ, these supply the data > clock for the network), a terminator, various connector boxes, etc. > Cabling shouldn't be a real problem either, I assume the right cable is 2 > twisted pairs with an overall screen. Ideally, twisted quad stranded with an overall screen and stranded drain wire, but Cat 3 or better is fine so long as you have the fifth (ground) wire and a half-decent screen. The original Econet in Acorn's Market Hill office in Cambridge ran on telephone cable. You do need the ground connection, though -- two pairs isn't enough on their own. > I believe I need a fileserver (== a machine set up as such). Assume I > have Beebs (with Econet interfaces), 6502 and Z80 second processors, A310 > (but no backplane, therefore no expansion), A3000 (no expansion either), > A3010 (in bits, but probably repairable), a couple of Systems (one with > an Exonet interface), and not a lot else. I think I could find the Acorn > SASI/SCSI host interface for the Beeb if pushed, and I have a Beeb with > the Torch SCSI card and SCSIFS. Oh, and an Acorn Econet bridge, but > that's fairly useless at the moment... There are six Acorn file servers, and some from SJ Research. I don't know much about the SJ ones (except that early ones had some compatibility problems) but the Acorn ones (in date order) are: The original Econet Fileserver -- runs on a System 5, uses 2 x 80-track DS SD floppies, formatted in a unique way. I've not got the software for that, and I've never used it. Level 1 Fileserver -- provides LOAD, SAVE, etc for files, and some utilities such as sending messages, viewing screens, etc, but not much more in the way of file services. Runs on an ordinary Model B with disk^Wdisc interface and normally uses two double-sided 80-track drives (but will work with any drive that supports DFS). Limited to whatever the standard DFS floppies hold (ie subject to the normal DFS file limits). Level 2 Filserver -- runs on a Beeb with a 6502 Second Processor, uses one or two DSSD 80-track drives, same disc format as the System 5 server. Not subject to the DFS number-of-files limits, supports random-access files, etc. Level 3 Fileserver -- runs on a Beeb with Beeb with a 6502 Second Processor, ADFS, and a 10MB or 30MB winchester. The winchester is partitioned, and the Econet Fileserver partitiion has a unique filestructure. Needs a dongle, which is also a TOD clock. Most dongles are now dead (and weren't Y2K compliant) but there's a patch to bypas that. It also came with a modified version of CommunITeL viewdata bulleting board software. Stacking Filestore -- a box that looks like the disc unit from a Master Compact (or a Communicator), with a brown smoked Perspex front flap covering twin 3.5" floppies, basically a revamped Level 3 but able to use floppies or a winchester. The flap is also a control switch; open it to shut down the server, close it to restart. It also includes printer server software. The matching winchester is just a small SCSI drive (yes, real SCSI, not SASI) in a matching box, normally a 3.5" 20MB Rodime drive; you can have up to six IIRC. Level 4 Fileserver -- software application that runs on an Archimedes under RISC OS 2 or later. It really wants an A440 or better, but should just about run on an A310. Uses whatever filing systems/media are available to RISC OS, and can act as an Econet/Ethernet bridge. > Any ideas as to what I should use, and where to get the necessary > software. Has anyone ever hacked a PC to work as an Econet fileserver? > The hardware wouldn't be too bad, I think. Level 1, 2 and 3 fileserver software isn't hard to come by if you know someone who has it (hint: you do :-)) The discs are copyable. Level 3 is only useful if you have a suitable winchester amd copro on a Beeb, and you'll need the installer discs (I forget whether it's one or two) *and* the anti-dongle patch (unless you want to reverse engineer one of my resin-encapsulated dongles -- but be warned, I've been told by Those Who Know Such Things that the necessary chips haven't been available for many years). You might be able to download Level 4 from the net somewhere. I think I have a copy -- but not a very good one. It went through a few iterations! > Has anyone ever hacked a PC to work as an Econet fileserver? > The hardware wouldn't be too bad, I think. Nope. The Ecolink ISA card only works under MS-DOS 3.21 (or some similar version) and an 8086 machine hasn't the oomph to make much of an Econet system. It even needs a (6502 -- what else?) processor on the Ecolink card to handle basic network operations. Ecolink cards are genuinely rare -- I have one, Jules R has one, and I know of only a couple of others. > Anything else I should be aware of? By convention, an Econet address is two octets, the upper octet is network number ("0" means "the local net"), the lower is the station number. On Beebs, Atoms, Systems, you set the station number with molex links; on later machines you set it in the CMOS. On Master Series machines, you need a special utility because it's in a protected memory area. Address 255 is the broadcast address; 0 is invalid (sound familiar?). By convention, the fileserver is station 254, and the printer server is 235. In some versions of the NFS or ANFS software, stations above 128 (? memory check) are privileged and can force certain operations on unpriv'd stations. Normal stations can *PROTECT themselves from various ops except from priv'd stations (operations include read/write memory blocks, jump to an execution address, force a file load/save etc -- remember this was designed for classroom use). There are Econet interfaces for Systems, Atoms, Beebs (A, B, B+), Master Series (including Compact), ABCs/Scientifics (built in as you've discovered), Electrons (from HCCS, not Acorn, though), and all of the Archimedes/RISC PC range. The A/B/B+ interfaces are a bag of components. The System one is a Eurocard, the Atom one is a plug-on module (as is the Electron one). The later Master Series and RISC machines ones are a small module. There are two versions of the module: originally Acorn designed it with full collision-detect circuitry, then someone decided it would work fine without, at least on an Arc where the faster processor could do some extra work. Sadly, that wasn't borne out in real life, so after a while they reverted to the original design with CD. Issue 2 and 3 Beebs have a lot of the components mounted vertically to save space; they also have provision for clock and/or terminators on the BBC board. This is not a good idea; the original terminator design was an active device, and doesn't work if there's no power (and neither does the clock, obviously!). Issue 2/3 also need a few track cut/rewires. Issue 4/7 have the components laid out horizontally (more sensible) and no provision for clock or terminator on board. The speed of the net depends on the length, the longer the slower. Max speed is obtained with a short network and an asymmetric mark-space ratio on the clock. Early Acorn clock boxes use a square wave; later ones, and SJ ones, have variable mark/space. Early terminator boxes (small light+dark grey Veroboxes) match the clock boxes and provide active termination. Later terminators, and SJ terminators, are passive: DIN plugs with a few resistors, and inferior. Arcs and later RISC-based machines can, not surprisingly, handle faster networks (up to about 500kHz clock) than Atoms/Systems/Beebs (250kHz clock). Torchnet runs on the same hardware as Econet, but uses its own nearly-compatible protocols. The Acorn Printer Server is a 2732 sideways ROM; it doesn't do queueing or anything fancy (ie it can only handle one job at a time) but works with most printers, from dot-matrix to laserjet. The XOB advanced version handles queueing, as does a later one from Acorn for RISC OS. If the server isn't too busy, FS and PS can be on the same machine. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From tothwolf at concentric.net Mon Oct 6 18:47:12 2003 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:20 2005 Subject: Am I seeing things? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20031006154709.007ba540@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20031006154709.007ba540@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 6 Oct 2003, Joe wrote: > At 02:12 PM 10/6/03 -0500, you wrote: > > > Yes, there is a public archive of the list postings. I kinda thought > > that's what the public archives were FOR? I especially like it when > > they talk about ancient things *S* > > I've replied to a couple of people looking for things and NONE of them > has ever responded so I seldom bother any more. I've responded to a number of people who found old messages related to TIL3xx (TIL306, TIL307, TIL308, TIL311) displays, who either contacted me directly, or posted to the mailing list. Each time I got a response back. Pretty much the only information I've been able to give folks on those parts is to contact Randy Gill, rgill AT innocor.com, who has been having TIL311 compatible parts made. He told me he could have the others made, if there was a demand for at least a few 1000 parts per year. I haven't been able to find any other sources for these displays, though they sometimes turn up surplus. Maybe this info needs to be added to the FAQ somewhere? -Toth From jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to Mon Oct 6 18:34:05 2003 From: jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:20 2005 Subject: memory refresher on PUTR References: <017401c38c15$13c53900$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <3F81FBED.2BD545E8@compsys.to> >Jay West wrote: > I believe it was a program called PUTR that I used on a PC to read/write > 5.25 floppy disks to exchange data with my PDP-11/23 that had an RX50 drive > in it. Should the PC drive be a 360k floppy or a 1.2m floppy? Jerome Fine replies: Look for the John Wilson site at: http://www.dbit.com/pub/putr/ On the PC, other responses are CORRECT - a HD 1.2 MByte floppy drive is REQUIRED! BUT, the media MUST be the DSDD 360 KByte floppies on the PC since the RX50 uses ONLY 10 sectors per track. PUTR will FORMAT both the RX50 and the RX33 media on the same HD 1.2 MByte drive on the PC, but the RX33 media REQUIRES and has the same LLF (Low Level Format) as the HD 1.2 MByte Floppy on the PC or 16 sectors per track and is double-sided, of course. The RX50 requires the DSDD 360 KByte media. Note that the RX50 is still 80 tracks, but is single-sided and that results in 800 blocks on the RX50 media vs 2400 blocks on the RX33 media. Any other questions? Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From alhartman at yahoo.com Mon Oct 6 19:45:56 2003 From: alhartman at yahoo.com (Al Hartman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:20 2005 Subject: Fat (512K) Mac Revival? In-Reply-To: <200310062338.h96NbwH5040359@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20031007004556.6464.qmail@web13405.mail.yahoo.com> Are you saying that the battery housing is there, and it's empty? If so... No need to crack the case to check the power supply. The lack of a battery is why your system isn't booting... Here's a webpage about the various batteries... http://www.sover.net/~jams/Classic_Mac_Workshop/battery.html Regards, Al > From: "Andrew Strouse" > > There doesn't seem to be any battery in the back at > all. Where do I go about getting one of those? I > haven't cracked the unit open yet but I will and > check the power supply. > > Andrew Strouse > ( kittstr@access-4-free.com ) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com From classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk Mon Oct 6 19:48:23 2003 From: classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk (Rob O'Donnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:20 2005 Subject: Betr.: Acorn Econet In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20031007013701.034fa008@pop.freeserve.net> At 09:11 06/10/2003 +0100, Eelco Huininga wrote: >Another option which I've been working on is adding an Ethernet interface to >an BBC, and writing a simple TCP/IP stack so that this BBC can act as an >Econet-Ethernet bridge, but this project is still in the design stage :-) this link might help: http://dunkels.com/adam/uip/index.html tcp/ip for 8 bit micros... linked with http://dunkels.com/adam/contiki/index.html - an 8 bit GUI. I keep looking at it, and wishing I had the time to port it to the Beeb - I used to do a LOT of low-level work on the beeb in the past. > >>> Tony Duell 10/05 7:20 >>> > >Any ideas as to what I should use, and where to get the necessary >software. hardware wise, econet is most simply set up as as daisy chain. You used to be able to get some three-way DIN sockets (three sockets all connected in parallel) which together with a pile of male-male cables could be used to set up a link. You ended up with a lot of wire kicking about... Personally, I just got a pile of chassis-mount sockets, stuck them on a box, and wired the backs all together in parallel. Aformentioned 5-pin DIN male-male leads went from a socket to a BBC Econet interface. A terminator plugs into each end one, and a clock somewhere else. Software wise, I should have somewhere the BBC fileserver software for running on a BBC B micro, with or without hard disc, but in both cases it needs a second processor (or use a Master 128 with the built in 65C102 co-pro). If you need a copy, email me and I'll try and dig it out. Rob. From ian_primus at yahoo.com Mon Oct 6 20:04:51 2003 From: ian_primus at yahoo.com (Ian Primus) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:20 2005 Subject: Help! need 400k/800k Mac os 6 or 7 diskettes! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <412A5C26-F862-11D7-91F9-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> On Monday, October 6, 2003, at 07:11 PM, chris wrote: >> IIRC, you could no longer use 400k disks as of System 7.6, but you can >> still use 800k disks up through System 9, provided of course that you >> have a Mac with an internal floppy drive. > > I can't reliably read or write 800K disks in my PM 6500 with OS 9.0.4. > Haven't been able to for a few OS versions. Also can't in my PM 9600. > It > attempts it, and is sometimes works for reading an 800K disk. It can > also > on occasion write to 800K disks, but it can never format them. It will > attempt a format, it will even complete it without complaint... but the > disk will be undreadable in machines running older OS versions. If I > format in an older machine, I can then get a few writes to the disk > before the data is unreadable in an older machine (and if the disk is > freshly formatted, then I can usually get one or two reads as well). > One thing I have noticed is that the newer manual inject floppy drives aren't as good at writing 800k disks. I have had some that worked perfectly, and others that weren't as great. For the longest time I used a rather hacked Centris 610 running System 8, and I had no problems writing 800k disks, and I used them a lot. The Centris had an auto inject floppy drive. I also haven't had very many problems with 800k disks on my 9600, but I do occasionally get errors. The disks are still useable in the old machines though. Maybe your drive is wearing out? >> Why Apple stopped >> offering floppy drives, I don't know. > > Cost cutting. They were trying to get the iMac down to as cheap a build > as possible, and they knew that most consumers would have little need > for > a floppy drive in the long run. So it was a place to shave a few bucks > off the manufacturing costs. Alas when they choose to do it, it was > still > a tad premature, as yes, in the LONG run, most consumers wouldn't need > a > floppy drive... but until they migrated their entire collection of old > disks to something else, then they still needed it (but its a typical > catch-22... if Apple left the drive in, no consumer would migrate their > stuff in anticipation for the removal of the drive, so the consumer > wasn't going to stop needing the drive, until right after the drive was > no longer there) > Good point, but the biggest problem with the original iMac was that there was no way to get your work off the computer if you didn't have an internet connection or any extra hardware, since they only had CD readers, not burners. I have never owned an iMac, but I have friends who have them, and they all waited until the iMac had a CD burner... Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com From jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to Mon Oct 6 20:08:25 2003 From: jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:20 2005 Subject: memory refresher on PUTR References: <017401c38c15$13c53900$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <3F821209.4BA53D69@compsys.to> >Jay West wrote: > I believe it was a program called PUTR that I used on a PC to read/write > 5.25 floppy disks to exchange data with my PDP-11/23 that had an RX50 drive > in it. Should the PC drive be a 360k floppy or a 1.2m floppy? Jerome Fine replies: Look for the John Wilson site at: http://www.dbit.com/pub/putr/ On the PC, other responses are CORRECT - a HD 1.2 MByte floppy drive is REQUIRED! BUT, the media MUST be the DSDD 360 KByte floppies on the PC since the RX50 uses ONLY 10 sectors per track. PUTR will FORMAT both the RX50 and the RX33 media on the same HD 1.2 MByte drive on the PC, but the RX33 media REQUIRES and has the same LLF (Low Level Format) as the HD 1.2 MByte Floppy on the PC or 16 sectors per track and is double-sided, of course. The RX50 requires the DSDD 360 KByte media. Note that the RX50 is still 80 tracks, but is single-sided and that results in 800 blocks on the RX50 media vs 2400 blocks on the RX33 media. Any other questions? Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From vcf at siconic.com Mon Oct 6 20:11:24 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:20 2005 Subject: VCF - Stuff for Sale In-Reply-To: <3F81C959.8B4B6FAA@rain.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 6 Oct 2003, Marvin Johnston wrote: > Rather than post the stuff here, a link to the things I'll be selling at > VCF is at: > > http://www.rain.org/~marvin/vcf.txt > > As the week goes by, I'll be adding to the list and updating it as > necessary. Marvin, Please also post your list to the VCF BBS. There are a lot of VCF attendees who don't read the list. In fact, a majority of attendees are not CC list members. http://www.vintage.org/2003/main/bbs.php -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From ian_primus at yahoo.com Mon Oct 6 20:12:56 2003 From: ian_primus at yahoo.com (Ian Primus) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:20 2005 Subject: black paper tape = mylar? In-Reply-To: <10310062028.ZM20082@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <623DD246-F863-11D7-91F9-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> On Monday, October 6, 2003, at 03:28 PM, Pete Turnbull wrote: > On Oct 6, 8:12, Lyle Bickley wrote: >> I'd contact the seller and ask them if the tapes are oiled (you can > smell the >> oil) - if so, they are not mylar. (I've used a lot of that > black/oiled tape >> - btw, mylar tape is typically not black, IMHO and experience) > > You can often *feel* the oil. By a curious coincidence, I was talking > to a guy, this morning, who still sells paper tape and used to be > involved in its manufacture. He told me how it was oiled in bulk, and > how they used to do it in small batches for special jobs. I now know > how to oil my own :-) That sounds interesting, how is it oiled? I had thought about that before, and I couldn't imagine just dunking a roll of paper in oil, or spraying it with oil or something. How oily is paper tape anyway? I don't have any oiled tape, although I need to get some for my ASR33. I have been using strips of computer paper to test, but I am worried that the unoiled paper might wear down the punch. I thought about having a stack of junk fanfold greenbar cut into 1" strips on the big machine in at work, but since it wouldn't be oiled, I don't know if it would damage anything. Do you really _need_ oiled tape, or can you get by without it? Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com From cb at mythtech.net Mon Oct 6 20:24:13 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:20 2005 Subject: Fat (512K) Mac Revival? Message-ID: >There doesn't seem to be any battery in the back at all. Where do I go >about getting one of those? I haven't cracked the unit open yet but I will >and check the power supply. Right above the power switch on the back, there should be a removable panel. Its about 2 inches tall and about 1/2 inch wide. I thought there was a little picture of a battery on the panel, but since I don't have a 512 I can't verify if there is indeed one on that model. Pop the panel off and have a look underneath. If there is a battery, see if it is any good -chris From cb at mythtech.net Mon Oct 6 20:46:32 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:20 2005 Subject: Help! need 400k/800k Mac os 6 or 7 diskettes! Message-ID: >Good point, but the biggest problem with the original iMac was that >there was no way to get your work off the computer if you didn't have >an internet connection or any extra hardware, since they only had CD >readers, not burners. I have never owned an iMac, but I have friends >who have them, and they all waited until the iMac had a CD burner... I didn't say Apple's cost cutting idea was well thought out... just that they did it for cost cutting reasons. :-) -chris From jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to Mon Oct 6 21:10:22 2003 From: jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:20 2005 Subject: memory refresher on PUTR References: <017401c38c15$13c53900$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <3F821209.4BA53D69@compsys.to> Message-ID: <3F82208E.1688D791@compsys.to> >"Jerome H. Fine" wrote: > Look for the John Wilson site at: > http://www.dbit.com/pub/putr/ Jerome Fine replies: I forgot to ask - in regard to a file I would like to have! Since PUTR is designed for a DOS environment, it will (or so I understand) create (the actual command is FORMAT) files with a maximum size of 2 GBytes minus one cluster size. Since I am using a FAT32 system, I understand that I am allowed a file of a maximum of 4 GBytes minus one cluster size. Obviously, that is TOO large to download, but when I did a Zip, the compressed file was on 2 MBytes. Even better, when I used bzip2.exe, the compressed file was just over 1500 bytes. The example I used was a file with all zeros that was 2,147,450,880 bytes which was Zipped to 2,084,166 bytes. When I used bzip2.exe, the file was ONLY 1518 bytes. What I wish to have is a file that is all zeros and is exactly 2,147,483,648 bytes. I imagine that a Zipped file should also be about 2 MBytes and that a file compressed with bzip2 would be about 1500 bytes. Obviously a FAT32 file system is required. Thank you in advance to anyone who can help! I an an RT-11 addict and I want to spend my time with that operating system. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Oct 6 21:25:40 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:20 2005 Subject: Help! need 400k/800k Mac os 6 or 7 diskettes! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20031006192220.M58501@newshell.lmi.net> On Mon, 6 Oct 2003, chris wrote: > I didn't say Apple's cost cutting idea was well thought out... just that > they did it for cost cutting reasons. Was Jobs in charge at the time? Look at the characteristics of machines designed under his leadership: (ALL expansion external, non-standard or no floppies) Lisa "twiggy" Next Barium Ferrite 2.8M (4M unformatted) iMac? From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Oct 6 18:45:44 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:20 2005 Subject: 27SF512-70 In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.32.20031006113327.007d6bb0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20031006113327.007d6bb0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031006194544.007db100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 03:30 PM 10/6/03 -0400, John wrote: > > >On Mon, 6 Oct 2003, Joe wrote: > >> Somebody needs to tell this clown that this isn't his private procurement >> list! >> >> Joe > > > > >Hey Joe... decaf, man - remember: Decaf!! ;} > > Anyway - do recall that whenever someone Googles for a specific part, it >is possible that they get pointed to an old message from Classiccmp in an >archive - and so they don't really have any way of knowing that they are >adressing a list of amateur collectors - so ya cut 'em some slack a bit.. > > And just think - what if it was *you* that just happened to have a nice >stash of them chips the poor guy is desperate for... I think I do. But I'm keeping 'em! :-) Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Oct 6 18:49:55 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:20 2005 Subject: VCF Want: Pertec formatters for Kennedy 9100 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031006194955.007db560@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 06:10 PM 10/6/03 -0400, you wrote: > > > As message header states: I'm looking for one or two Pertec formatter >cards for Kennedy 91xx series tape drives - with cables, if possible. Wha tdo they look like and are they part of the Kennedy drive or are they mounted elsewhere? I don't know anything about Kennedy drives but I frequently see them in the scrap places. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Oct 6 22:15:05 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:20 2005 Subject: black paper tape = mylar? In-Reply-To: <10310062028.ZM20082@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <"Re: black paper tape = mylar?"@tampabay.rr.com> <00b301c38c08$245e6960$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <200310060812.07141.lbickley@bickleywest.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031006231505.007f21e0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 08:28 PM 10/6/03 +0100, you wrote: >On Oct 6, 8:12, Lyle Bickley wrote: >> I'd contact the seller and ask them if the tapes are oiled (you can >smell the >> oil) - if so, they are not mylar. (I've used a lot of that >black/oiled tape >> - btw, mylar tape is typically not black, IMHO and experience) > >You can often *feel* the oil. By a curious coincidence, I was talking >to a guy, this morning, who still sells paper tape and used to be >involved in its manufacture. He told me how it was oiled in bulk, and >how they used to do it in small batches for special jobs. I now know >how to oil my own :-) What kind of oil do they use on it? Joe > >-- >Pete Peter Turnbull > Network Manager > University of York > From jpl15 at panix.com Mon Oct 6 22:39:39 2003 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:20 2005 Subject: VCF Want: Pertec formatters for Kennedy 9100 In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20031006194955.007db560@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20031006194955.007db560@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 6 Oct 2003, Joe wrote: > At 06:10 PM 10/6/03 -0400, you wrote: > > > > > > As message header states: I'm looking for one or two Pertec formatter > >cards for Kennedy 91xx series tape drives - with cables, if possible. > > Wha tdo they look like and are they part of the Kennedy drive or are > they mounted elsewhere? I don't know anything about Kennedy drives but I > frequently see them in the scrap places. > I have used the wrong terminology, forgive me List! I meant the card that goes in a Kennedy drive that attaches to the drive electronics and has headers for the cables that go *to* the formatter card, which I have - a Dilog Unibus card. So if you see a Kennedy 9100 lying dead in some scrapyard - it's the card that mounts on top of the (blower housing?) unit, under, and in the middle of, the card cages. It's not in the Manual, since it's specific to the interface installed on the drive... it would actually be covered in the formatter manual, I presume. Anyway, if you see such a beast - I would like to have a few of them, one to use and some for parts, along with the cables that go from the card to the drive electronics - not to mention a set of Pertec cables to go from the card to the 11/44 CPU. I will certainly pay all costs involved with you travelling, rescuing, packing, and shipping the aforementioned Goodies. Thanks!!! John From classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk Tue Oct 7 02:01:52 2003 From: classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk (Rob O'Donnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:20 2005 Subject: Morely Electronics Teletext Adapter. In-Reply-To: <10310070024.ZM20222@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20031007075605.042f1008@pop.freeserve.net> At 00:24 07/10/2003 +0100, Pete Turnbull wrote: >On Oct 5, 18:24, Tony Duell wrote: > > While looking for Econet bits, I found the above-mentioned unit >(Morely > > Electronics Teletext Adapter). > >Morley, not Morely :-) > > > It's clearly a BBC periperal. On the back is Belling-Lee coaxial >socket > > (standard TV aerial connector), and a piece of 6 way ribbon cable. >This > > splits, 4 wires go to a 20 pin 2-row IDC header socket (presumably >BBC > > User Port, the connections would then be +5V, Ground, and 2 lines for >I2C > > SCL and SDA). The other 2 wires go to a plug to fit the BBC's power > > outlet socket, to get 12V. > > > Does anyone know anything about this unit, and more importantly, >anyone > > know where I can get the software to use it (it's certainly not > > compatable with the Acorn Teletext unit). I've got what I believe to be one of these buried in my boxes somewhere too.... but just a bare board, with several of the wires to the ribbon cable detached from the board.... I would be very grateful if you were able to open it up and take a pic of where all the wires go, as there was no obvious row of pins to connect to. It looked somewhat.. messy.. to me. Then, when I have time to go digging through the boxes again, I can finally fix it (after about 15 years of waiting!) >You need the Advanced Teletext Software ROM, which I've got in my >archive. There's also an additional extension ROM. It does neat >things like autotuning, and is reputedly rather superior to the Acorn >Teletext Adaptor, though not having ever owned a Morley one, I wouldn't >really know. Ther'es also some inofrmation on it on The BBC Lives! >website. When I had mine working, many many years back, yes, it was definitely better. Lots more fun things you could do. Shame I can't remember them now ... Rob. From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue Oct 7 02:39:25 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:20 2005 Subject: black paper tape = mylar? In-Reply-To: Ian Primus "Re: black paper tape = mylar?" (Oct 6, 21:12) References: <623DD246-F863-11D7-91F9-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <10310070839.ZM20635@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Oct 6, 21:12, Ian Primus wrote: > On Monday, October 6, 2003, at 03:28 PM, Pete Turnbull wrote: > > On Oct 6, 8:12, Lyle Bickley wrote: > >> I'd contact the seller and ask them if the tapes are oiled (you can > > smell the > >> oil) - if so, they are not mylar. > > You can often *feel* the oil. By a curious coincidence, I was talking > > to a guy, this morning, who still sells paper tape and used to be > > involved in its manufacture. He told me how it was oiled in bulk, and > > how they used to do it in small batches for special jobs. > That sounds interesting, how is it oiled? I had thought about that > before, and I couldn't imagine just dunking a roll of paper in oil, or > spraying it with oil or something. How oily is paper tape anyway? Commercially, the oil is sort of printed onto the paper. The paper is passed over an oily roller before being wound onto the final reel. The film of oil on the roller is quite thin, and the quantity is controlled by a system of additional rollers between an oil reservoir and the applicator roller; just like the system used for ink on an offset litho machine. That's what I was thinking about replicating, to oil my own tape, because it's much easier to get unoiled tape here. For very small batches, I was told that they sometimes just dunked the 1" wide reels of tape in an oil bath. If it's wound properly (it should be moderately tight, not slack) the reel will soak up oil over a period of a few days, without excess oil remaining between the layers. The trick, I was told, is to know how long to leave it so that the oil penetrates from the edges of the strip right to the centre. I said you can often feel the oil -- I didn't mean there's a film left on the surface. It typically has a slight sheen, and appears slightly translucent. If you slide a strip of oiled tape through your fingers it should feel smooth, but not leave you with oil on your fingers. Think about the amount of oil you'd want to lubricate the mechanism to punch a few yards of tape: not much. To answer Joe's question, the oil is a light machine oil. I'd guess it's about ISO 30, which is about SAE 5, or less. > I don't have any oiled tape, although I need to get some for my ASR33. I > have been using strips of computer paper to test, but I am worried that > the unoiled paper might wear down the punch. I thought about having a > stack of junk fanfold greenbar cut into 1" strips on the big machine in > at work, but since it wouldn't be oiled, I don't know if it would > damage anything. Do you really _need_ oiled tape, or can you get by > without it? It'll work, as you've obviously discovered, but from all acounts will make the punches wear faster. Greenbar is also much thinner than proper tape. Interestingly, I was told (this guy used to work in a place where 20+ people produced tape, full-time) that most European equipment specified unoiled tape, and generally only American-made equipment needed oiled tape. I'm not sure if that's because American equipment needed the extra lubrication, or if it's something to do with dust, maybe oily dust is considered too abrasive to be allowed to work its way into small mechanisms, or maybe Europeans just designed better lubrication systems ;-) Talking of dust (well, nearly), has anyone (preferably in the UK) got a spare chad box for an ASR33? -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From eric at brouhaha.com Tue Oct 7 06:28:41 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:20 2005 Subject: Help! need 400k/800k Mac os 6 or 7 diskettes! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <39656.64.169.63.74.1065526121.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> >>Apple stopped having the drives read and write 400 and 800 k disks a >>while ago. > > Actually the System does that... I don't remember when though. I > think it might have been System 8 that stopped reading 400k, The software support went away, but also they stopped making drives (and controller chips) that can handle the 400K and 800K formats. Since they used variable motor speed on the 400K, 800K, and Superdrive (FDHD), they could keep a roughly constant flux density on the track. But when you try to read or write that on a fixed-speed drive, such as a 1440K drive in a PC, or any recent Mac floppy drive, the frequency required to match the flux density of 400K/800K disk format is outside the range that the drive electronics can reliably handle. Reading can sometimes be done, but writing is very problematic. From waltje at pdp11.nl Tue Oct 7 08:00:30 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:20 2005 Subject: WHO? (was: RE: Help! need 400k/800k Mac os 6 or 7 diskettes!) In-Reply-To: <39656.64.169.63.74.1065526121.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: I lost track of this thread - who needed those diskettes? I just found a box (waaah! another box!) of oldish Mac stuff at a customer's place, and that seems to have the old System disks - were part of the IIcx kit I believe.... --f From cb at mythtech.net Tue Oct 7 08:59:28 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:20 2005 Subject: Help! need 400k/800k Mac os 6 or 7 diskettes! Message-ID: >The software support went away, but also they stopped making drives >(and controller chips) that can handle the 400K and 800K formats. >Since they used variable motor speed on the 400K, 800K, and Superdrive >(FDHD), they could keep a roughly constant flux density on the track. >But when you try to read or write that on a fixed-speed drive, such >as a 1440K drive in a PC, or any recent Mac floppy drive, the frequency >required to match the flux density of 400K/800K disk format is outside >the range that the drive electronics can reliably handle. Reading can >sometimes be done, but writing is very problematic. That probably explains why my 6500 and 9600 have problems with 800K disks. -chris From rhudson at cnonline.net Tue Oct 7 09:24:24 2003 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:20 2005 Subject: WHO? (was: RE: Help! need 400k/800k Mac os 6 or 7 diskettes!) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tuesday, October 7, 2003, at 08:00 AM, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > I lost track of this thread - who needed those diskettes? I just found > a box (waaah! another box!) of oldish Mac stuff at a customer's place, > and that seems to have the old System disks - were part of the IIcx kit > I believe.... > > --f > > > Was me Fred, They have to be low density and I would be interested in any software on 400K or 800K disks... My SE is currently running 7.1 but it's incomplete, it doesn't see the cdrom on the SCSI chain. From waltje at pdp11.nl Tue Oct 7 09:45:59 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:20 2005 Subject: WHO? (was: RE: Help! need 400k/800k Mac os 6 or 7 diskettes!) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 7 Oct 2003, Ron Hudson wrote: > Was me Fred, They have to be low density and I would be interested in > any software on 400K or 800K disks... > > My SE is currently running 7.1 but it's incomplete, it doesn't see the > cdrom on the SCSI chain. I'll grab all that stuff tonight, and go through it in the morning to see what all is there.. probably all their software since, oh, 1992 or so, when they started with Mac's. --f From cb at mythtech.net Tue Oct 7 10:33:44 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:21 2005 Subject: WHO? (was: RE: Help! need 400k/800k Mac os 6 or 7 diskettes!) Message-ID: >I'll grab all that stuff tonight, and go through it in the morning >to see what all is there.. probably all their software since, oh, >1992 or so, when they started with Mac's. It will probably all be on 1.4 disks and of no use to Ron. At least not until he gets a Mac with a SuperDrive that can read the larger disks. -chris From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Oct 7 10:13:41 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:21 2005 Subject: FA: Hyperion compuer, SUN cards, DEC cards Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031007111341.007cb6c0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Just finished listing a Hyperion computer and some SUN interface cards (and a Judson magneto!) on E-bay. I will be adding a LOT of DEC cards soon. Joe From chd_1 at nktelco.net Tue Oct 7 11:42:47 2003 From: chd_1 at nktelco.net (Charles H. Dickman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:21 2005 Subject: DEC Pro 380 Info Request Message-ID: <3F82ED07.9020203@nktelco.net> I now have a DEC Professional 380 that was originally a VAX Console. Inspecting it, I find a floppy interface, a Winchester interface, and an RTI interface (used for the VAX I think). The disk is an RD52 with a big piece of red tape that says TOP SECRET. I have lots of questions.... After looking for pinouts, I have attached a NEC Multisync 3D monitor and an LK201 keyboard to the VIDEO 1 port. During the self test I get an error saying a key is stuck on the keyboard. This may indeed be true, I have not tested the keyboard before. It also says hit to continue. The keyboard has no key. I suspect there were various markings for the keycaps. Any suggestion on which key might be ? What are the monochrome monitor specifications (horizontal frequency, vertical frequency, etc)? It looks like the NEC 3D can barely get the correct sync. This monitor is a bit old and when it warms up it loses sync. Not sure if this is a problem with the monitor, or I am just stretching its specs too much. A NEC XV17 I tried would not even begin to sync. I read that the printer port is also a console for the Pro. After finding the pinouts, I connected a terminal to the port and a break dropped me into ODT. Is there microPDP-11/83 style firmware in there somewhere that I can use on the PR 1 port or do I have to use the keyboard and video? Using ODT, I can see that there are 512kB of memory. The RTI seems interesting, but I have not seen any pinouts for the 62 pin connector. From what I can find there are two serial ports, a 24 line bi-directional I/O port and an IEEE-488 port. Pretty cool, but useless without a pinout... -chuck From arcarlini at iee.org Tue Oct 7 12:00:16 2003 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:21 2005 Subject: DEC Pro 380 Info Request In-Reply-To: <3F82ED07.9020203@nktelco.net> Message-ID: <002301c38cf4$7b6fa8d0$5b01a8c0@athlon> > After looking for pinouts, I have attached a NEC Multisync 3D monitor > and an LK201 keyboard to the VIDEO 1 port. During the self > test I get an > error saying a key is stuck on the keyboard. This may indeed > be true, I > have not tested the keyboard before. It also says hit to > continue. The keyboard has no key. I suspect there > were various > markings for the keycaps. Any suggestion on which key might > be ? You can find some LK201/VR201 info (mostly schematics) at http://www.pdp11.nl/documentation/ (The Rainbow used the same kbd/monitor IIRC) > The RTI seems interesting, but I have not seen any pinouts for the 62 > pin connector. From what I can find there are two serial ports, a 24 > line bi-directional I/O port and an IEEE-488 port. Pretty cool, but > useless without a pinout... You can find some Nautilus (VAX 85xx/8700/8800) info at: http://208.190.133.201/decimages/ (that's what these things were often attached to as a console). -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org > From aek at spies.com Tue Oct 7 12:12:29 2003 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:21 2005 Subject: VCF Want: Pertec formatters for Kennedy 9100 Message-ID: <200310071712.h97HCTSk028770@spies.com> I have used the wrong terminology, forgive me List! I meant the card that goes in a Kennedy drive that attaches to the drive electronics and has headers for the cables that go *to* the formatter card -- What you are looking for is the "Multiple Transport Adapter, Type 4147" which converts the dual 22 pin connectors to the read/write/control connector configuration. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Oct 7 13:08:06 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:21 2005 Subject: Acorn Econet In-Reply-To: <10310062140.ZM20108@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> from "Pete Turnbull" at Oct 6, 3 09:40:03 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 4932 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20031007/04cf8e4a/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Oct 7 13:12:37 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:21 2005 Subject: Morely Electronics Teletext Adapter. In-Reply-To: <10310070024.ZM20222@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> from "Pete Turnbull" at Oct 7, 3 00:24:04 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 831 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20031007/d75d0e81/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Oct 7 13:15:17 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:21 2005 Subject: Betr.: Acorn Econet In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20031007013701.034fa008@pop.freeserve.net> from "Rob O'Donnell" at Oct 7, 3 01:48:23 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 888 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20031007/a9ce3f79/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Oct 7 13:28:49 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:21 2005 Subject: Morely Electronics Teletext Adapter. In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20031007075605.042f1008@pop.freeserve.net> from "Rob O'Donnell" at Oct 7, 3 08:01:52 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2082 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20031007/b515b722/attachment.ksh From pat at purdueriots.com Tue Oct 7 13:55:19 2003 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:21 2005 Subject: DEC Pro 380 Info Request In-Reply-To: <3F82ED07.9020203@nktelco.net> References: <3F82ED07.9020203@nktelco.net> Message-ID: <200310071355.20031.pat@purdueriots.com> On Tuesday 07 October 2003 11:42, Charles H. Dickman wrote: > I now have a DEC Professional 380 that was originally a VAX Console. > Inspecting it, I find a floppy interface, a Winchester interface, and an > RTI interface (used for the VAX I think). The disk is an RD52 with a big > piece of red tape that says TOP SECRET. Just about anything marked "TOP SECRET" must be cool : ). > What are the monochrome monitor specifications (horizontal frequency, > vertical frequency, etc)? It looks like the NEC 3D can barely get the > correct sync. This monitor is a bit old and when it warms up it loses > sync. Not sure if this is a problem with the monitor, or I am just > stretching its specs too much. A NEC XV17 I tried would not even begin > to sync. You should, actually, be able to connect it to a composite NTSC monitor. The sync rates are the same as or very close to those used on USA analog TV signals. That's what I used for a display on my PRO 380. > I read that the printer port is also a console for the Pro. After > finding the pinouts, I connected a terminal to the port and a break > dropped me into ODT. Is there microPDP-11/83 style firmware in there > somewhere that I can use on the PR 1 port or do I have to use the > keyboard and video? Most apps on the PRO 380 expected you to use the video console, with the possible exception of some debuggers, and custom SYSGEN'd copies of RT11 (or any other DEC OS's that'd run on it). Bascially, you'll want to use a keyboard and monitor, not a serial console. -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ From rhudson at cnonline.net Tue Oct 7 14:27:29 2003 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:21 2005 Subject: WHO? (was: RE: Help! need 400k/800k Mac os 6 or 7 diskettes!) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4A6FC5C7-F8FC-11D7-B4DB-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> On Tuesday, October 7, 2003, at 09:45 AM, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > On Tue, 7 Oct 2003, Ron Hudson wrote: > >> Was me Fred, They have to be low density and I would be interested in >> any software on 400K or 800K disks... >> >> My SE is currently running 7.1 but it's incomplete, it doesn't see the >> cdrom on the SCSI chain. > I'll grab all that stuff tonight, and go through it in the morning > to see what all is there.. probably all their software since, oh, > 1992 or so, when they started with Mac's. > > --f > > Of course once I get the CDRom working, I can write CDs with my iBook. From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue Oct 7 15:09:44 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:21 2005 Subject: Acorn Econet In-Reply-To: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) "Re: Acorn Econet" (Oct 7, 19:08) References: Message-ID: <10310072109.ZM21159@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Oct 7, 19:08, Tony Duell wrote: > > > > On Oct 5, 18:20, Tony Duell wrote: > > Ideally, twisted quad stranded with an overall screen and stranded > > drain wire, but Cat 3 or better is fine so long as you have the fifth > > RIght. And presumably you can 'get way' with more on shorter networks. Indeed. I once ran a whole classroom (about 16 Beebs, I think) using cables made up of a short length, about 6", of thin screened 4-core with a DIN inline socket on one end, the other end going to a DIN plug to which I also soldered a longer (3'-6') length of the same wire, ending in another DIN plug. A daisy-chain of those worked fine at full speed. Later Econet starter kits used Y-adaptors (3 DIN sockets in a Y shape) and low-cost DIN cables (as often used for low-end MIDI systems, cassette recorders, etc). > > Level 2 Filserver -- runs on a Beeb with a 6502 Second Processor, uses > > > Level 3 Fileserver -- runs on a Beeb with Beeb with a 6502 Second > > Processor, ADFS, and a 10MB or 30MB winchester. The winchester is > > I do have a 6502 second processor, so these are possible... > > Does it _have_ to be the 10 or 30 Mbyte unit? What about a 20Mbyte ST225, > for example. The Acorn hardware certainly supports that. No, I don't remember ever trying to install one on a 20MB or any size other than 10MB or 30MB, but I don't see any reason to suppose it might not work. You just partition the disk in the propotions you want for ADFS and Econet FS, and then install the fileserver software. > > partitioned, and the Econet Fileserver partition has a unique > > filestructure. Needs a dongle, which is also a TOD clock. Most > > dongles are now dead (and weren't Y2K compliant) but there's a patch > > What fails in them, or isn't it known? *I* don't know, but I'm sure someone does. You might find something from Google. I *think* there may be a battery of some sort, but that's not the whole problem. > > The A/B/B+ interfaces are a bag of components. > > Ohterwise known as 'there are spare spaces on the PCB for the Econet > components, get soldering' :-) There are a couple of tracks to cut/jumper on some PCBs, but basically, yes. > > The System one is a Eurocard, the Atom one is a plug-on > > One of my Atoms has the genuine Atom interface, another has a System > Econet card hooked up to the expansion bus (which is basically compatible > with the System bus). Very nice :-) > The B+ (in the ACW) has PCB positions for the collision-detect comparator > chip, etc, but they're not fitted.... It's worth doing. > I think the Acorn clock and terminator share the same PCB, just with > different components fitted. The old ones do, yes. One of mine has both sets of components, you'll not be surprised to hear. > Incidentally, if you use Acorn hardware throughout, do you need 3 > 'veroboxes' -- a clock and 2 terminators? See above :-) In theory, yes, but on a very short net, you might not even need the second terminator. > If you use SJ, I assume you use the clock and 2 terminator plugs. Yes, though it doesn't matter which clock you mate with which terminators. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue Oct 7 15:11:19 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:21 2005 Subject: Morely Electronics Teletext Adapter. In-Reply-To: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) "Re: Morely Electronics Teletext Adapter." (Oct 7, 19:12) References: Message-ID: <10310072111.ZM21162@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Oct 7, 19:12, Tony Duell wrote: > What does the extension ROM add? Apart from auto tuning? I'm not sure. The manual for the extension is on the net at The BBC Lives! but it's a pretty big PDF file :-( -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk Tue Oct 7 16:00:33 2003 From: classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk (Rob O'Donnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:21 2005 Subject: Betr.: Acorn Econet In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.1.6.0.20031007013701.034fa008@pop.freeserve.net> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20031007214958.02c2e1c0@pop.freeserve.net> At 19:15 07/10/2003 +0100, Tony Duell wrote: > > Personally, I just got a pile of chassis-mount sockets, stuck them on a > > box, and wired the backs all together in parallel. Aformentioned 5-pin > DIN > >OK, sounds simple enough. I assume you could add the termination >components directly on the back of the sockets too... I assume so .... I had made up the "bunch of resistors" version which I just plugged in the end sockets. > > male-male leads went from a socket to a BBC Econet interface. A > terminator > >Do I have to use the twisted pair cable for the drop leads, or can I get >away with, say, audio cables? I am sure that most of the leads I used in the past were audio leads ... I've certainly used them for that as well...! Specifications are wonderful things, but you can get away with murder in practice. We're not talking UDMA 166 here ... :-) > > plugs into each end one, and a clock somewhere else. > > Just while I think about it. The clock box I still have is a modified acorn active terminator - even says that on the outside, with a sticker over it. Circuit board inside is obviously dual purpose, but the clock circuit is a bodge - a 555 floating in mid-air, with a few discrete components, and eventually some bits making their way to the circuit board to connect up... I ran about eight machines in my bedroom on all this once.. four user BBS, multi-user games, etc.. those were fun days :-) > > Software wise, I should have somewhere the BBC fileserver software for > > running on a BBC B micro, with or without hard disc, but in both cases it > > needs a second processor (or use a Master 128 with the built in 65C102 > co-pro). >I do have the 6502 second processor somewhere (in fact the only one of >the 4 Acorn ones that I am missing is the 32016 one). > >-tony I've not got one of those either ... indeed, only got a 6502, and the ARM.. gosh, it's a long time since I had the econet running... I used it with an Amcom 10Mb hard disc, btw, so the L3 fileserver will obviously work with other drives (to answer a q in another post). Maybe when I'm rich, I'll have the room to set all this stuff up again... Rob From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Oct 7 17:46:02 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:21 2005 Subject: Betr.: Acorn Econet In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20031007214958.02c2e1c0@pop.freeserve.net> from "Rob O'Donnell" at Oct 7, 3 10:00:33 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3362 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20031007/684a1818/attachment.ksh From kittstr at access-4-free.com Tue Oct 7 01:14:22 2003 From: kittstr at access-4-free.com (Andrew Strouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:21 2005 Subject: Fat (512K) Mac Revival? References: Message-ID: <000201c38d28$09f78310$16444a43@amscomputer> Sorry I wasn't clear in my last message. My door is non-existent and there is no battery in the back. I wondered what that hole was with the contacts. I have ordered on from Radio Shack and they say it will be at my door by Friday. We shall see if that helps. Thanks to everyone who responded. Andrew Strouse ( kittstr@access-4-free.com ) ----- Original Message ----- From: "chris" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts " Sent: Monday, October 06, 2003 9:24 PM Subject: Re: Fat (512K) Mac Revival? > >There doesn't seem to be any battery in the back at all. Where do I go > >about getting one of those? I haven't cracked the unit open yet but I will > >and check the power supply. > > Right above the power switch on the back, there should be a removable > panel. Its about 2 inches tall and about 1/2 inch wide. I thought there > was a little picture of a battery on the panel, but since I don't have a > 512 I can't verify if there is indeed one on that model. > > Pop the panel off and have a look underneath. If there is a battery, see > if it is any good > > -chris > > > From chd_1 at nktelco.net Tue Oct 7 18:33:29 2003 From: chd_1 at nktelco.net (Charles H. Dickman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:21 2005 Subject: LK201 key stuck Message-ID: <3F834D49.9010503@nktelco.net> I have been working on a DEC Pro 380 and the LK201 keyboard I have causes the Pro to report a stuck key and hang. So I opened up the keyboard thinking I could clean out whatever had jammed in there. Looking at it, I don't quite know how this thing works. Each key is supported by a "cantilever" spring. This spring has a piece that looks like it has a contact of some sort, but this is all on top of a layer of rubber and it doesn't even look like the "contact" touches the rubber. Below the rubber is a piece of clear, flexible plastic with circuits on it. So does anybody know how this thing works? Contacts? Capacitive? Inductive? Has anybody ever fixed one? -chuck From wonko at 4amlunch.net Tue Oct 7 20:46:28 2003 From: wonko at 4amlunch.net (Brian Hechinger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:21 2005 Subject: AlphaServer 4000/4100 In-Reply-To: ; from vance@neurotica.com on Sat, Oct 04, 2003 at 02:58:46AM -0400 References: Message-ID: <20031007214628.C26550@zill.net> On Sat, Oct 04, 2003 at 02:58:46AM -0400, vance@neurotica.com wrote: > > I was perusing some old DEC brochures, and I read that the AlphaServer > 4000 can be field upgraded to an AlphaServer 4100. How does one go about > doing that? if i remember correctly, it takes a backplane swap. -brian -- "It's like a Koala bear crapped a rainbow in my brain." -- Captain Murphy - Sealab 2021 - From wonko at 4amlunch.net Tue Oct 7 20:48:28 2003 From: wonko at 4amlunch.net (Brian Hechinger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:21 2005 Subject: PDP 11/73 SLU In-Reply-To: <1065054248.13320.3.camel@unix>; from cmcnabb@4mcnabb.net on Wed, Oct 01, 2003 at 08:24:08PM -0400 References: <200310010220.h912Kq9E019657@onyx.spiritone.com> <3F7AFDCD.4050101@srv.net> <20031001114328.M18098@zill.net> <10310012133.ZM13256@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <1065054248.13320.3.camel@unix> Message-ID: <20031007214828.D26550@zill.net> On Wed, Oct 01, 2003 at 08:24:08PM -0400, Christopher McNabb wrote: > > It is really pretty useless for me, since the EGA monitors all appear to > be toast and I wouldn't be able to use VTServer through the custom EGA > thing. pull the EGA thingie, and you might be able to cram enough "regular" PDP-11 bits into it to get it bootstraping correctly and most importantly trying to use a serial port for console. the /73 is a fabulous machine, don't give up on it too quickly. :) > Interestingly, though, is the fact that this custom card also interfaces > into a very large board that I believe is a vector processor. ooooohhhh, i would be VERY interested to know what that is and if there were a way that we could play with it. :) -brian -- "It's like a Koala bear crapped a rainbow in my brain." -- Captain Murphy - Sealab 2021 - From wonko at 4amlunch.net Tue Oct 7 20:49:12 2003 From: wonko at 4amlunch.net (Brian Hechinger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:21 2005 Subject: PDP 11/73 SLU In-Reply-To: <10310012133.ZM13256@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com>; from pete@dunnington.u-net.com on Wed, Oct 01, 2003 at 09:33:07PM +0100 References: <200310010220.h912Kq9E019657@onyx.spiritone.com> <3F7AFDCD.4050101@srv.net> <20031001114328.M18098@zill.net> <10310012133.ZM13256@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <20031007214912.E26550@zill.net> On Wed, Oct 01, 2003 at 09:33:07PM +0100, Pete Turnbull wrote: > > Yes and no. There is a dual-height version of the 11/73 (KDJ11-A) > which carries the processor, MMU, FPA, cache control, etc, but no > bootstrap, SLUs, or line-tme clock. It was commonly sold as an OEM > product or as an upgrade to 11/23 systems. There is also quad-height > version (KDJ11-B), the same board as as the 11/83, but (if sold as an > 11/73) it has a 15MHz crystal instead of 18MHz, and would originally > have had different bootstrap ROMs. ahh, ok, that explains it. i am only familiar with the KDJ11-A, i've never held a -B in my hands. -brian -- "It's like a Koala bear crapped a rainbow in my brain." -- Captain Murphy - Sealab 2021 - From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue Oct 7 21:00:40 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:21 2005 Subject: anyone notice this gorgeous piece? Message-ID: <000701c38d3f$fbde93f0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3050481627&category=1479 CDC 97xx disc drive. Looks very clean. From cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net Tue Oct 7 21:10:56 2003 From: cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net (cmcnabb@4mcnabb.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:21 2005 Subject: PDP 11/73 SLU In-Reply-To: <20031007214828.D26550@zill.net> References: <1065054248.13320.3.camel@unix>; from cmcnabb@4mcnabb.net on Wed, Oct 01, 2003 at 08:24:08PM -0400 Message-ID: <3F8339F0.29775.66E362D@localhost> On 7 Oct 2003 at 21:48, Brian Hechinger wrote: > pull the EGA thingie, and you might be able to cram enough "regular" > PDP-11 bits into it to get it bootstraping correctly and most > importantly trying to use a serial port for console. > Yesterday a co-conspira^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hworker of mine brought in an old Princeton EGA/VGA monitor. After hooking up the monitor and re-seating a couple of the cards the system seemed to boot ok, though I did notice that there appeared to be some 'striction' in the old ST-506 drive ( and yes, I do still have the "Fonzie" touch :-D ) I'm thinking that I am going to pull the custom cards as soon as I get enough stuff to get it to boot without them, since I REALLY want to run BSD211 on the thing. I'll need a bigger hard drive also (any one got a couple of RD-54s and controllers to donate?) > ooooohhhh, i would be VERY interested to know what that is and if > there were a way that we could play with it. :) > I would too, but I think that idea is very doubtful since I have absolutlely zero docs on the thing. From curt at atarimuseum.com Tue Oct 7 21:15:21 2003 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:21 2005 Subject: anyone notice this gorgeous piece? References: <000701c38d3f$fbde93f0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <006c01c38d42$06ff2bd0$1a02a8c0@starship1> Jay, Great piece, thanks! :-D Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jay West" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2003 10:00 PM Subject: anyone notice this gorgeous piece? > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3050481627&category=1479 > > CDC 97xx disc drive. Looks very clean. From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Oct 7 21:14:00 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:21 2005 Subject: anyone notice this gorgeous piece? In-Reply-To: <000701c38d3f$fbde93f0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> from "Jay West" at Oct 07, 2003 09:00:40 PM Message-ID: <200310080214.h982E1Q4000746@onyx.spiritone.com> > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3050481627&category=1479 > > CDC 97xx disc drive. Looks very clean. Jay, you're a sick puppy for that comment... Unfortunatly I seem to be as well, that's one gorgeous drive, it looks like it could have just come off a computer floor (yeah, I know they've had it in storage). Zane From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Oct 7 21:22:38 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:21 2005 Subject: PDP 11/73 SLU In-Reply-To: <3F8339F0.29775.66E362D@localhost> from "cmcnabb@4mcnabb.net" at Oct 07, 2003 10:10:56 PM Message-ID: <200310080222.h982McE6000873@onyx.spiritone.com> > I'm thinking that I am going to pull the custom cards as soon as I get enough stuff to > get it to boot without them, since I REALLY want to run BSD211 on the thing. I'll > need a bigger hard drive also (any one got a couple of RD-54s and controllers to > donate?) Do yourself a favor, don't mess with MFM disks if you can help it. The cheapest solution is to get a ESDI controller and dig up some ESDI drives, this should be far cheaper than getting even one RD54. In fact if you get lucky, a SCSI controller is likely to be cheaper. Either solution will generate less grey hair than trying to use an MFM drive. Zane From jrkeys at concentric.net Tue Oct 7 21:33:14 2003 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:21 2005 Subject: anyone notice this gorgeous piece? References: <000701c38d3f$fbde93f0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <027501c38d44$87582820$1a09dd40@oemcomputer> That was a nice one and I hope to get one someday. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jay West" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2003 9:00 PM Subject: anyone notice this gorgeous piece? > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3050481627&category=1479 > > CDC 97xx disc drive. Looks very clean. > From jwstephens at msm.umr.edu Tue Oct 7 22:02:19 2003 From: jwstephens at msm.umr.edu (jim) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:21 2005 Subject: {WAS} Re: anyone ... {is} 300mb head crashes, and Western Dynex acquired References: <000701c38d3f$fbde93f0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> <027501c38d44$87582820$1a09dd40@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <3F837E3B.680E462C@msm.umr.edu> I hate to be a poop, but I would imagine that if you loaded and tried to run this, you'ed end up with slag. I had several 300's and they are very sensitive to contamination. If you have a pack inspection and cleaning system or portable version, and the cleaning materials, you probably could get a pack up to shape not to crash all the heads. I would want a lot of heads available just in case of disaster too, as it was not if but when as to the problem of crashes. these are wonderful machines to have, but I am torn about how to use them given the fact that they are like fine wristwatches, which have to work perfectly at 1700 rpm or so, and do that indefinitely. I probably had some HEPA filters, but doubt they have survived my moves, sad to say. I am doing a massive move right now and will hold on to what I have and post the numbers if anyone is interested. I did find and purchase a western dynex 5 over 5 model 6000, which I just got posession of today from a DRMO auction. They are 4 heads instead of 10 or 20, and the media is much easier (and less of it) to clean. Hopefully it will be functional to run on a Microdata system I have in stock, looking for a drive to run on it. Thanks to whoever posted the recent note about a DRMO auction as I found this drive while surfing the auctions around that posting. Jim Keys wrote: > That was a nice one and I hope to get one someday. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jay West" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2003 9:00 PM > Subject: anyone notice this gorgeous piece? > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3050481627&category=1479 > > > > CDC 97xx disc drive. Looks very clean. > > From curt at atarimuseum.com Tue Oct 7 22:13:17 2003 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:21 2005 Subject: {WAS} Re: anyone ... {is} 300mb head crashes, and Western Dynex acquired References: <000701c38d3f$fbde93f0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP><027501c38d44$87582820$1a09dd40@oemcomputer> <3F837E3B.680E462C@msm.umr.edu> Message-ID: <008601c38d4a$1ea1c380$1a02a8c0@starship1> I've heard the very same thing and I've been picking up a lot of spare equipment, filters, tools, an alignment pak and I'm borrowing a meter that a former tech says will help to ensure proper alignment of the heads, so yeah I've heard this is a major undertaking with a LOT of before hand setup time, I've been searching for 5+ months for one of these and I'm willing to put in the needed time to get it up and running so I can access over a dozen disks I have with data on them. Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "jim" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2003 11:02 PM Subject: {WAS} Re: anyone ... {is} 300mb head crashes,and Western Dynex acquired > I hate to be a poop, but I would imagine that if you loaded and tried > to run this, you'ed end up with slag. > > I had several 300's and they are very sensitive to contamination. If > you have a pack inspection and cleaning system or portable version, > and the cleaning materials, you probably could get a pack up to shape > not to crash all the heads. > > I would want a lot of heads available just in case of disaster too, > as it was not if but when as to the problem of crashes. > > these are wonderful machines to have, but I am torn about how > to use them given the fact that they are like fine wristwatches, > which have to work perfectly at 1700 rpm or so, and do that > indefinitely. > > I probably had some HEPA filters, but doubt they have survived > my moves, sad to say. > > I am doing a massive move right now and will hold on to what I > have and post the numbers if anyone is interested. > > I did find and purchase a western dynex 5 over 5 model 6000, > which I just got posession of today from a DRMO auction. They > are 4 heads instead of 10 or 20, and the media is much easier (and > less of it) to clean. Hopefully it will be functional to run on a > Microdata system I have in stock, looking for a drive to run on it. > > Thanks to whoever posted the recent note about a DRMO auction > as I found this drive while surfing the auctions around that posting. > > Jim > > Keys wrote: > > > That was a nice one and I hope to get one someday. > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Jay West" > > To: > > Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2003 9:00 PM > > Subject: anyone notice this gorgeous piece? > > > > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3050481627&category=1479 > > > > > > CDC 97xx disc drive. Looks very clean. > > > > From tothwolf at concentric.net Tue Oct 7 23:28:03 2003 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:21 2005 Subject: DEC Pro 380 Info Request In-Reply-To: <3F82ED07.9020203@nktelco.net> References: <3F82ED07.9020203@nktelco.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 7 Oct 2003, Charles H. Dickman wrote: > After looking for pinouts, I have attached a NEC Multisync 3D monitor > and an LK201 keyboard to the VIDEO 1 port. During the self test I get an > error saying a key is stuck on the keyboard. This may indeed be true, I > have not tested the keyboard before. It also says hit to > continue. The keyboard has no key. I suspect there were various > markings for the keycaps. Any suggestion on which key might be ? > > What are the monochrome monitor specifications (horizontal frequency, > vertical frequency, etc)? It looks like the NEC 3D can barely get the > correct sync. This monitor is a bit old and when it warms up it loses > sync. Not sure if this is a problem with the monitor, or I am just > stretching its specs too much. A NEC XV17 I tried would not even begin > to sync. The NEC 3D was very poorly made compared to the earlier and most of the later 4D/5FG/etc monitors. I've yet to see one that still works properly. -Toth From jpero at sympatico.ca Tue Oct 7 19:17:27 2003 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:21 2005 Subject: DEC Pro 380 Info Request In-Reply-To: References: <3F82ED07.9020203@nktelco.net> Message-ID: <20031008041555.LWYG5089.tomts35-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> The NEC 3D was very poorly made compared to the earlier and most of the later 4D/5FG/etc monitors. I've yet to see one that still works properly. -Toth How do u know? I had a 3D, still ok after 8 yr when I first bought it years ago then later sold it still working. Only plm with it was small tube. Oh yeah, I also had 4FGe. Luckily picked it up for free. It snapped and popped LOUDLY once in while, threw it out bec it's is really uncertain when it whatever decides to die in big way. I know 5D is still working at friend's home but it's HUGE and heavy as an tank. Cheers, Wizard From vcf at siconic.com Tue Oct 7 23:26:22 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:21 2005 Subject: anyone notice this gorgeous piece? In-Reply-To: <027501c38d44$87582820$1a09dd40@oemcomputer> Message-ID: On Tue, 7 Oct 2003, Keys wrote: > That was a nice one and I hope to get one someday. Why? Unless you're going to actually do something with it, it only serves as a big heavy mostly-metallic object that takes up space and gets in your way. I have one, so I know first hand :) (I used to have two but one met an unfortunate end by being dumped into a metal recycling bin by some dumb-asses not paying attention. Fortunately it was in very crappy condition and I wasn't too torn up about seeing it go, especially since it was moving time and that meant one less big heavy thing to move ;) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From teoz at neo.rr.com Tue Oct 7 23:36:27 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:21 2005 Subject: DEC Pro 380 Info Request References: <3F82ED07.9020203@nktelco.net> Message-ID: <004601c38d55$bcf4c400$3d7ca418@neo.rr.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tothwolf" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2003 12:28 AM Subject: Re: DEC Pro 380 Info Request > > The NEC 3D was very poorly made compared to the earlier and most of the > later 4D/5FG/etc monitors. I've yet to see one that still works properly. > > -Toth I have a nec 3Ds (later version of 3d?) that syncs correctly on my amiga 1200 (15khz) , maybe I am lucky TZ From jrkeys at concentric.net Wed Oct 8 00:03:54 2003 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:21 2005 Subject: anyone notice this gorgeous piece? References: Message-ID: <02ca01c38d59$93a6be10$1a09dd40@oemcomputer> If I get my wish, than someday soon I will have a couple of mainframes to put on display and I would like to have the various peripherals to go with them. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vintage Computer Festival" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2003 11:26 PM Subject: Re: anyone notice this gorgeous piece? > On Tue, 7 Oct 2003, Keys wrote: > > > That was a nice one and I hope to get one someday. > > Why? Unless you're going to actually do something with it, it only serves > as a big heavy mostly-metallic object that takes up space and gets in your > way. > > I have one, so I know first hand :) > > (I used to have two but one met an unfortunate end by being dumped into a > metal recycling bin by some dumb-asses not paying attention. Fortunately > it was in very crappy condition and I wasn't too torn up about seeing it > go, especially since it was moving time and that meant one less big heavy > thing to move ;) > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage mputers ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > > From classiccmp at crash.com Wed Oct 8 00:44:52 2003 From: classiccmp at crash.com (Steven M Jones) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:21 2005 Subject: anyone notice this gorgeous piece? Message-ID: <200310080544.h985iqe20128@abort.crash.com> Jay West wrote: . > That was a nice one and I hope to get one someday. Sorry, meant to post a "seen this" note, but life got in the way. That was a relisted at least once, I saw it the other week and it ended with no bids. What I need is something like the Google search API but for eBay, so I can wrote a nice little 'bot that will keep an eye out for things... --S. From Edward.Tillman at valero.com Wed Oct 8 01:06:13 2003 From: Edward.Tillman at valero.com (Tillman, Edward) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:21 2005 Subject: anyone notice this gorgeous piece? Message-ID: Ok... What did he write? Ed Tillman Store Automation Tech Support Specialist Valero Energy Corporation San Antonio, Texas, USA Office: (210)592-3110, Fax (210)592-2048 Email: edward.tillman@valero.com -----Original Message----- From: Steven M Jones [mailto:classiccmp@crash.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2003 12:45 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: anyone notice this gorgeous piece? Jay West wrote: From classiccmp at crash.com Wed Oct 8 01:14:14 2003 From: classiccmp at crash.com (Steven M Jones) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:21 2005 Subject: PDT-11/150 Message-ID: <200310080614.h986EEe20242@abort.crash.com> Bill Machacek wrote: . > I just rescued a Digital PDT 11/150 ... what have I got? A nice little RT-11 system. It may seem heavy, but the alternative is usually in a BA23 deskside/rack box, and that's heavier. It is almost completely non-expandable as Tony pointed out; it was theoretically available with only a single RX01 floppy drive, and three serial ports, but all the units I've seen (mine or pictures on the 'Net) have both drives and six ports. There's probably *something* other than RT-11 that'll run on it, but I haven't gotten around to finding it yet. There probably isn't enough room on an RX01 for anything like Xinu or a Unix v6 mini-root, let alone enough hardware, but things that could be run on a pdp-11/03 stand a chance. Should be some fun things in the DECUS library. --S. From tothwolf at concentric.net Wed Oct 8 02:00:28 2003 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:21 2005 Subject: DEC Pro 380 Info Request In-Reply-To: <004601c38d55$bcf4c400$3d7ca418@neo.rr.com> References: <3F82ED07.9020203@nktelco.net> <004601c38d55$bcf4c400$3d7ca418@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 8 Oct 2003, TeoZ wrote: > From: "Tothwolf" > > > The NEC 3D was very poorly made compared to the earlier and most of > > the later 4D/5FG/etc monitors. I've yet to see one that still works > > properly. > > I have a nec 3Ds (later version of 3d?) that syncs correctly on my amiga > 1200 (15khz) , maybe I am lucky Very...It must not have very many hours on it. -Toth From tothwolf at concentric.net Wed Oct 8 02:08:36 2003 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:21 2005 Subject: DEC Pro 380 Info Request In-Reply-To: <20031008041555.LWYG5089.tomts35-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> References: <3F82ED07.9020203@nktelco.net> <20031008041555.LWYG5089.tomts35-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: On Wed, 8 Oct 2003 jpero@sympatico.ca wrote: > Tothwolf wrote: > > > The NEC 3D was very poorly made compared to the earlier and most of > > the later 4D/5FG/etc monitors. I've yet to see one that still works > > properly. > > How do u know? I had a 3D, still ok after 8 yr when I first bought it > years ago then later sold it still working. Only plm with it was small > tube. Because I've worked with literally 100s of NEC monitors over the years. Out of all the 3D monitors I've worked with, every single one that had more than a few years of power on time had serious problems. Often they would pop and hiss, some had problems with the tube's phosphor, and some had major deflection problems. I've not seen near the problems with earlier or later NEC monitors. > Oh yeah, I also had 4FGe. Luckily picked it up for free. It snapped > and popped LOUDLY once in while, threw it out bec it's is really > uncertain when it whatever decides to die in big way. Might have been a bad solder joint. Some of the 3D monitors certainly had that type of problem. > I know 5D is still working at friend's home but it's HUGE and heavy as > an tank. I'm viewing this on a 5FG right now, with another 5FGe right next to it. I've only recently (and temporarily) retired my 2A, as it needs some caps replaced. -Toth From eric at brouhaha.com Wed Oct 8 02:52:47 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:21 2005 Subject: DEC Pro 380 Info Request In-Reply-To: <20031008041555.LWYG5089.tomts35-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> References: <3F82ED07.9020203@nktelco.net> <20031008041555.LWYG5089.tomts35-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: <40182.64.169.63.74.1065599567.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> "Tothwolf" wrote: > The NEC 3D was very poorly made compared to the earlier and most of the > later 4D/5FG/etc monitors. I've yet to see one that still works properly. That may be, but AFAIK it's the last of the NEC Multisync line that could actually sync to horizontal rates as low as 15.75 KHz, which is necessary if you want to use it with a DEC Pro 380. From allain at panix.com Wed Oct 8 08:37:20 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:21 2005 Subject: anyone notice this gorgeous piece? References: Message-ID: <002b01c38da1$4c845d60$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > {CDC 9766} Too bad it weighs about 450lb. I stop just short of owning one. I keep the nonremovable types, weighing between 90 and 140 lbs. What's the interface on these things anyway? Probably too early to be as easy as SMD, eh? John A. From nico at farumdata.dk Wed Oct 8 09:12:52 2003 From: nico at farumdata.dk (Nico de Jong) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:21 2005 Subject: anyone notice this gorgeous piece? References: <002b01c38da1$4c845d60$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <001201c38da6$43d7a780$2101a8c0@farumdata.dk> > > {CDC 9766} > > Too bad it weighs about 450lb. I remember this beast from a job I once had. The drives (2, 200 MB each IIRC) were connected to a Regnecentralen RC8000 (a danish system, used in the USA primarily by airlines for booking systems). It had to deal with the full workload of a company dealing with bathtubs, piping, and all other things to be used in bathrooms, etc. The second drive was used solely for data, such as invoices, personel, etc. ALL programs, system files, swap files or whatever was on the first drive, and as the system had only 256K, there was a "lively traffic" to and from the drive. It was also used as a development system for 3 programmers. The first invoice run to be executed on that system, took over 24 hours to complete ! In the mean time, the disk had moved about half a meter sideways. The only reason for not being in the other end of the machine room, was the length of the cables connected to the drive. Nico From uban at ubanproductions.com Wed Oct 8 09:24:45 2003 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:21 2005 Subject: anyone notice this gorgeous piece? In-Reply-To: <002b01c38da1$4c845d60$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> References: Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20031008092141.020376e0@mail.ubanproductions.com> At 09:37 AM 10/8/2003 -0400, you wrote: > > {CDC 9766} > >Too bad it weighs about 450lb. >I stop just short of owning one. >I keep the nonremovable types, weighing >between 90 and 140 lbs. > >What's the interface on these things anyway? >Probably too early to be as easy as SMD, eh? > >John A. I have a CDC9762, which is the smaller brother of this drive and weighs considerably less, but is still big and is still heavy. From the standpoint of showing off the old technology standpoint, these are great drives. Yes, you have to have the space and power, but a winchester (fixed) drive just isn't as impressive as a washing machine:-) These drives use a standard SMD interface. --tom From pat at purdueriots.com Wed Oct 8 09:52:01 2003 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:21 2005 Subject: DEC 11/23 FP option (FPF11/M8188) information request Message-ID: <200310080952.01072.pat@purdueriots.com> I've managed to pick up an FPF11/M8188 (PDP-11/23 Floating Point option) for my PDP-11/23, and I'm wondering if anyone here knows how to set up/ configure this thing. It's a standard-looking dual-height QBUS module, with a 2x20 pin header at the top of the card (with the QBUS fingers pointing downward. I've got a non-+ 11/23 CPU board that I'd like to get it to work with, currently stuck in a BA23 cabinet. Thanks for any help! -- Pat PLUG Vice President -- http://plug.purdue.org Slackware Linux -- http://slackware.com Purdue University Research Computing -- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs From toresbe at ifi.uio.no Wed Oct 8 10:03:25 2003 From: toresbe at ifi.uio.no (Tore S Bekkedal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:21 2005 Subject: Mac IIci Cache Card Message-ID: <1065624877.6020.3.camel@lisp> Yup, I've got one right in front of me. (well, actually slightly to the left, because my keyboard is right in front of me, and between the monitor and the keyboard I have a bunch of harddrives and a Mach 64 display card taken from an OEM Compaq) If you want it I'll be happy to give it up. The IIci chassis now rests in pieces, and the mainboard is wall decoration. (I have a mosaic of broken or useless mobos up over the wall at my summerhouse) Drop me a line if another one says bye-bye. Peace, -Tore From dittman at dittman.net Wed Oct 8 10:31:44 2003 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:21 2005 Subject: Heathkit ET-3400 Manul Message-ID: <20031008153144.F2D06801B@narnia.int.dittman.net> I have an ET-3400A and would like to find a manual, preferably and electronic copy that I could ftp or have mailed to me. Does anyone have an electronic copy? If not, does anyone have a paper copy? -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From allain at panix.com Wed Oct 8 10:59:33 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:21 2005 Subject: anyone notice this gorgeous piece? References: <5.2.0.9.0.20031008092141.020376e0@mail.ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <03bd01c38db5$2ac8b720$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > I have a CDC9762, which is the smaller brother... I've seen 9766'es and I'd like to check out the 9762 sometime too. I take care of the all-go/no-show problem of nonremovables by having one drive partially dismantled, for show and it's twin all set up for running. To me the inside of a Fujitsu M2351A Eagle is as impressive machinery as a Harley engine. John A. From patrick at evocative.com Wed Oct 8 11:29:57 2003 From: patrick at evocative.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:22 2005 Subject: Data General Eclipse Give-Away Message-ID: Someone just posted a Data General Eclipse on the Vintage Computer Marketplace, as a give-away. http://marketplace.vintage.org/view.cfm?ad=220 Evidently it has been sitting in a garage in Tucson for some time. Also, check out Sellam's auction for the Commodore 64 prototype (serial number 6)... Patrick From waltje at pdp11.nl Wed Oct 8 11:36:01 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:22 2005 Subject: anyone notice this gorgeous piece? In-Reply-To: <000701c38d3f$fbde93f0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: Jay writes: > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3050481627&category=1479 Damn. I assumed Jay was referencing an ad for someone's wife on ePay. What disappointment to only find a DCD drive on there. Jay... your wording is starting to scare me... go out more often :) Cheers, Fred -- Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist Visit the VAXlab Project at http://www.pdp11.nl/VAXlab/ Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Sunnyvale, CA, USA From curt at atarimuseum.com Wed Oct 8 11:37:49 2003 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:22 2005 Subject: anyone notice this gorgeous piece? References: <002b01c38da1$4c845d60$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <00b501c38dba$836195f0$1a02a8c0@starship1> John, Its SMD, I have an Emulex Qbus card for it. Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Allain" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2003 9:37 AM Subject: Re: anyone notice this gorgeous piece? > > {CDC 9766} > > Too bad it weighs about 450lb. > I stop just short of owning one. > I keep the nonremovable types, weighing > between 90 and 140 lbs. > > What's the interface on these things anyway? > Probably too early to be as easy as SMD, eh? > > John A. > From classiccmp at crash.com Wed Oct 8 11:41:39 2003 From: classiccmp at crash.com (Steven M Jones) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:22 2005 Subject: anyone notice this gorgeous piece? Message-ID: <200310081641.h98Gfde22364@abort.crash.com> John Allain wrote: . > I take care of the all-go/no-show problem of nonremovables > by having one drive partially dismantled, for show and it's > twin all set up for running. To me the inside of a Fujitsu > M2351A Eagle is as impressive machinery as a Harley engine. Now that would be impressive! Showing the engineering, machining, and general complexity of gear like this would I think be literally awesome. You might not get the kiddies to conceded that it could be cool to play games that aren't photorealistically rendered (let alone ASCII), but I think they'd be dumbstruck by seeing how enormously complicated real world objects can be. The real-world analogy would be the moving partial cutaways of motors seen at autoshows. I'm sure it's come up before, but I don't remember seeing anything like this at the Boston Computer Museum many, many years ago. Are there some exhibits like this in the CHM's new digs? --S. From patrick at evocative.com Wed Oct 8 12:09:26 2003 From: patrick at evocative.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:22 2005 Subject: Data General Eclipse Give-Away In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Also, check out Sellam's auction for the Commodore 64 prototype (serial > number 6)... Sorry... my bad... it's #19. --Patrick From uban at ubanproductions.com Wed Oct 8 12:10:35 2003 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:22 2005 Subject: anyone notice this gorgeous piece? In-Reply-To: <03bd01c38db5$2ac8b720$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> References: <5.2.0.9.0.20031008092141.020376e0@mail.ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20031008120505.02055630@mail.ubanproductions.com> I also have a Fujitsu M2284K drive which has the tinted plastic HDA cover, so that you can see the guts of the 14" drive assembly. http://www.ubanproductions.com/m2284k.html --tom At 11:59 AM 10/8/2003 -0400, you wrote: > > I have a CDC9762, which is the smaller brother... > >I've seen 9766'es and I'd like to check out the 9762 >sometime too. > >I take care of the all-go/no-show problem of nonremovables >by having one drive partially dismantled, for show and it's >twin all set up for running. To me the inside of a Fujitsu >M2351A Eagle is as impressive machinery as a Harley engine. > >John A. From vcf at siconic.com Wed Oct 8 12:24:03 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:22 2005 Subject: Data General Eclipse Give-Away In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 8 Oct 2003, Patrick Rigney wrote: > Someone just posted a Data General Eclipse on the Vintage Computer > Marketplace, as a give-away. > > http://marketplace.vintage.org/view.cfm?ad=220 It's apparently an S/20. More info is in the auction ad. If I had the time I'd get it myself. > Also, check out Sellam's auction for the Commodore 64 prototype (serial > number 6)... 19 (not 6 :) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From Joel.E.Bradley at syntegra.com Wed Oct 8 12:35:02 2003 From: Joel.E.Bradley at syntegra.com (Joel.E.Bradley@syntegra.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:22 2005 Subject: cctalk Digest, Vol 2, Issue 13 Message-ID: <41C19CA3B7CBD411B59200508B6CBBFF046AC05C@ah-exchange-01.arh.cdc.com> Is there actually a demand for these kinds of things anyway? I happen to work at the company known as the former CDC and we have a lot of this stuff around...in fact, we still support a lot of it. The Cyber 675 is still in use! Would this stuff be worthwhile trying to rescue from the 'scrap heap'? I also have lots of CDC branded merchandise... Joel Message: 9 Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 18:36:01 +0200 (CEST) From: "Fred N. van Kempen" Subject: Re: anyone notice this gorgeous piece? To: Jay West Cc: cctalk@classiccmp.org Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Jay writes: > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3050481627&category=1479 Damn. I assumed Jay was referencing an ad for someone's wife on ePay. What disappointment to only find a DCD drive on there. Jay... your wording is starting to scare me... go out more often :) Cheers, Fred -- Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist Visit the VAXlab Project at http://www.pdp11.nl/VAXlab/ Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Sunnyvale, CA, USA From emu at ecubics.com Wed Oct 8 13:04:38 2003 From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:22 2005 Subject: DEC 11/23 FP option (FPF11/M8188) information request In-Reply-To: <200310080952.01072.pat@purdueriots.com> References: <200310080952.01072.pat@purdueriots.com> Message-ID: <3F8451B6.1000303@ecubics.com> Patrick Finnegan wrote: > I've managed to pick up an FPF11/M8188 (PDP-11/23 Floating Point option) > for my PDP-11/23, and I'm wondering if anyone here knows how to set up/ > configure this thing. It's a standard-looking dual-height QBUS module, > with a 2x20 pin header at the top of the card (with the QBUS fingers > pointing downward. I've got a non-+ 11/23 CPU board that I'd like to get > it to work with, currently stuck in a BA23 cabinet. I hope I understand you here, but if you're trying to use it on a non 11/23 system you out of luck (OK, you can use it on a 11/24 too ...) If you look carefully at this board, you see that the qbus finger are only for the power supply of this board, there are no signals on it. Everything else this board needs is coming from the 11/23 or 11/24 FPU socket on the CPU module ... cheers From pat at purdueriots.com Wed Oct 8 12:55:01 2003 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:22 2005 Subject: WTD: SMD QBUS, VAXstation multi-CPU fun (was Re: anyone notice this gorgeous piece?) In-Reply-To: <00b501c38dba$836195f0$1a02a8c0@starship1> References: <002b01c38da1$4c845d60$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <00b501c38dba$836195f0$1a02a8c0@starship1> Message-ID: <200310081255.01456.pat@purdueriots.com> Curt vendel had uttereth on Wednesday 08 October 2003 11:37 am: > John, > > Its SMD, I have an Emulex Qbus card for it. Hey, I think I'm looking for an SMD QBUS card for use in one of my VAX/ PDP-11 systems. I've got a CDC 9448 drive that I'd love to get hooked up to *something*. I've got some cash to offer, or other DEC/IBM/Sun parts/ machines available for trade. Next on the list. I've just recently got a VAXstation 3520 from someone else at Purdue. I've taken it apart, looked at the maintenance manuals, and boards, and made some guesses. Even though it claims to only support two cpu boards (4 CVAX CPUs), it looks very likely that the hardware at least will work with up to (at most) 5 boards/10 CPUs. I'm working on trying to find more CPU boards to test this idea out at the moment, and am interested in borrowing or buying more CPU boards or VAXstation 3520/2540s. If you don't want to sell the thing, I'd be interested in just borrowing the CPU module for a week or two to test out software/ firmware support. Again, I've got things I can trade for this if desired. Also, if anyone has any memory boards they'd like to sell/trade, that'd be nice. I'm not sure 16MB will be enough for a Multiprocessor VAX. : ) As far as trades go, ask me if I have what you want, I've got a bunch of stuff that is taking up too much space right now... Mostly IBM/DEC/Sun (Sparc 32) things. -- Pat PLUG Vice President -- http://plug.purdue.org Slackware Linux -- http://slackware.com Purdue University Research Computing -- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs From pat at purdueriots.com Wed Oct 8 13:24:43 2003 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:22 2005 Subject: DEC 11/23 FP option (FPF11/M8188) information request In-Reply-To: <3F8451B6.1000303@ecubics.com> References: <200310080952.01072.pat@purdueriots.com> <3F8451B6.1000303@ecubics.com> Message-ID: <200310081324.43536.pat@purdueriots.com> emanuel stiebler had uttereth on Wednesday 08 October 2003 01:04 pm: > Patrick Finnegan wrote: > > I've managed to pick up an FPF11/M8188 (PDP-11/23 Floating Point > > option) for my PDP-11/23, and I'm wondering if anyone here knows how > > to set up/ configure this thing. It's a standard-looking dual-height > > QBUS module, with a 2x20 pin header at the top of the card (with the > > QBUS fingers pointing downward. I've got a non-+ 11/23 CPU board > > that I'd like to get it to work with, currently stuck in a BA23 > > cabinet. > > I hope I understand you here, but if you're trying to use it on a non > 11/23 system you out of luck (OK, you can use it on a 11/24 too ...) > If you look carefully at this board, you see that the qbus finger are > only for the power supply of this board, there are no signals on it. > Everything else this board needs is coming from the 11/23 or 11/24 FPU > socket on the CPU module ... No, I was trying to indicate that the CPU was an 11/23 not an 11/23+. So, do I need some magic cable to go from a DIP socket on the CPU board to this card? If so, does anyone have a pinout for it? Thanks! Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ From finnegpt at purdue.edu Wed Oct 8 13:25:46 2003 From: finnegpt at purdue.edu (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:22 2005 Subject: cctalk Digest, Vol 2, Issue 13 In-Reply-To: <41C19CA3B7CBD411B59200508B6CBBFF046AC05C@ah-exchange-01.arh.cdc.com> References: <41C19CA3B7CBD411B59200508B6CBBFF046AC05C@ah-exchange-01.arh.cdc.com> Message-ID: <200310081325.46776.finnegpt@purdue.edu> Joel.E.Bradley@syntegra.com had uttereth on Wednesday 08 October 2003 12:35 pm: > Is there actually a demand for these kinds of things anyway? I happen > to work at the company known as the former CDC and we have a lot of > this stuff around...in fact, we still support a lot of it. The Cyber > 675 is still in use! > > Would this stuff be worthwhile trying to rescue from the 'scrap heap'? > I also have lots of CDC branded merchandise... Definately! Where are you located, and what kinds of things do you have available (or soon-to-be available)? > Joel > > > Message: 9 > Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 18:36:01 +0200 (CEST) > From: "Fred N. van Kempen" > Subject: Re: anyone notice this gorgeous piece? > To: Jay West > Cc: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Message-ID: > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > > Jay writes: > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3050481627&categor > >y=1479 > > Damn. I assumed Jay was referencing an ad for someone's wife > on ePay. What disappointment to only find a DCD drive on there. > > Jay... your wording is starting to scare me... go out more often :) > > Cheers, > Fred -- -- Pat PLUG Vice President -- http://plug.purdue.org Slackware Linux -- http://slackware.com Purdue University Research Computing -- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs From classiccmp at crash.com Wed Oct 8 13:36:43 2003 From: classiccmp at crash.com (Steven M Jones) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:22 2005 Subject: Multi-CPU Qbus VAXen Message-ID: <200310081836.h98Iahe23050@abort.crash.com> Patrick Finnegan wrote: . > I've just recently got a VAXstation 3520 Something I'd love to see up close someday... > [ More about installing additional CPU boards ] That would be interesting - looking forward to comments from Antonio and others about whether this is really possible... On a related note, I there's a MicroNote about running multiple MicroVAX II CPUs (KA630, M7606) in a single backplane. Up to 4 in fact (MicroNote #26, on www.ibiblio.org). Has anyone on the list ever worked with, built, or seen such a beast? Did any interesting OS research projects of the time use this feature (I'm thinking V or Mach)? --S. From dwoyciesjes at comcast.net Wed Oct 8 13:53:24 2003 From: dwoyciesjes at comcast.net (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:22 2005 Subject: Mac IIci Cache Card References: <1065624877.6020.3.camel@lisp> Message-ID: <3F845D24.A55DEA0@comcast.net> Tore S Bekkedal wrote: > > Yup, I've got one right in front of me. (well, actually slightly to the > left, because my keyboard is right in front of me, and between the > monitor and the keyboard I have a bunch of harddrives and a Mach 64 > display card taken from an OEM Compaq) > > If you want it I'll be happy to give it up. The IIci chassis now rests > in pieces, and the mainboard is wall decoration. (I have a mosaic of > broken or useless mobos up over the wall at my summerhouse) > > Drop me a line if another one says bye-bye. > > Peace, > -Tore This reminds me... I have a working Mac IIci, free if you come and get it in New Haven CT. I have some other older Macs too. Like a Macintosh II, with Radius full page display... -- --- Dave Woyciesjes --- ICQ# 905818 From emu at ecubics.com Wed Oct 8 14:24:33 2003 From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:22 2005 Subject: DEC 11/23 FP option (FPF11/M8188) information request In-Reply-To: <200310081324.43536.pat@purdueriots.com> References: <200310080952.01072.pat@purdueriots.com> <3F8451B6.1000303@ecubics.com> <200310081324.43536.pat@purdueriots.com> Message-ID: <3F846471.9040708@ecubics.com> Patrick Finnegan wrote: > No, I was trying to indicate that the CPU was an 11/23 not an 11/23+. So, > do I need some magic cable to go from a DIP socket on the CPU board to > this card? If so, does anyone have a pinout for it? AFAIRC, it's just a flat ribbon cable. So it should be 1:1. cheers From emu at ecubics.com Wed Oct 8 14:43:25 2003 From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:22 2005 Subject: Multi-CPU Qbus VAXen In-Reply-To: <200310081836.h98Iahe23050@abort.crash.com> References: <200310081836.h98Iahe23050@abort.crash.com> Message-ID: <3F8468DD.20302@ecubics.com> Steven M Jones wrote: > On a related note, I there's a MicroNote about running multiple > MicroVAX II CPUs (KA630, M7606) in a single backplane. Up to 4 > in fact (MicroNote #26, on www.ibiblio.org). Has anyone on the > list ever worked with, built, or seen such a beast? Did any > interesting OS research projects of the time use this feature > (I'm thinking V or Mach)? Check the note again. AFAIRC, this (ka630, ka650, ...) had just a "mailbox" register to communicate, and only one cpu had access to the qbus. The other ones had the qbus interface shut down. So, if you didn't have you special backplane with 4 qbuses, it was pretty limited ... cheers From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed Oct 8 15:22:46 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:22 2005 Subject: DEC 11/23 FP option (FPF11/M8188) information request In-Reply-To: Patrick Finnegan "DEC 11/23 FP option (FPF11/M8188) information request" (Oct 8, 9:52) References: <200310080952.01072.pat@purdueriots.com> Message-ID: <10310082122.ZM22447@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Oct 8, 9:52, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > I've managed to pick up an FPF11/M8188 (PDP-11/23 Floating Point option) > for my PDP-11/23, and I'm wondering if anyone here knows how to set up/ > configure this thing. It's a standard-looking dual-height QBUS module, > with a 2x20 pin header at the top of the card (with the QBUS fingers > pointing downward. I've got a non-+ 11/23 CPU board that I'd like to get > it to work with, currently stuck in a BA23 cabinet. You mean a dual-height KDF11-A ? I'm not sure if it'll work with that; it's designed to work with a quad-height KDF11-B or an 11/24. The same FPF11 works in 11/23 Qbus and 11/24 Unibus systems, and MINC systems. You ought to have a 40-way ribbon cable with a 40-way (2x20) female header on one end and a 40-pin DIL header (to fit into a normal 40-pin DIL IC socket) on the other. If it didn't come with that, you only have half the system and you should claim a 50% rebate from whoever sold it to you. Failing that, it's in a dangerously incomplete state, and you should probably send it to me for safe disposal... QBus fitting: The 40-pin DIL header goes into slot 2 on the KDF11-B -- that's the 40-pin socket next to the CPU chip, nearest the centre of the board -- with the red stripe (which marks pin 1) on the side of the cable furthest from the edge connector fingers, and the cable exiting from the plug/socket towards the centre of the PCB. Fold the cable back over the DIL plug and the CPU chip, then fold at right angles so the cable comes off towards the back of the KDF11-B board with the red stripe on the left (as you look into the backplane from the back of the machine with Slot 1 at the top). The 40-pin female header fits onto J1 of the FPF11 with the red stripe on the left, and the FPF11 fits into Slot 2 of the backplane. Ditto for a MINC. Unibus fitting: The 40-pin DIL header goes into slot 7 (may also be marked E4) on the KDF11-B -- that's the 40-pin socket nearest the Row A side of the board -- with the red stripe (which marks pin 1) on the side of the cable nearest the Row F fingers, and the cable exiting from the plug/socket towards the edge connector fingers. Fold the cable back over itself and pass it over the back of the CPU card. Then give it a half-twist so the red stripe is now nearest Row A, fit it to J1 on the FPF11 and fit the FPF11 in Rows A...D of the first slot *after* the memory cards. The order of cards on the bus should be: ------------- 11/24 CPU ----------- ------ Unibus Map (or memory) ----- --------------- memory ------------ --------------- memory ------------ --------------- memory ------------ --------------- memory ------------ ---------- FPF11 ------ (empty) terminator or jumper Jumpers: There are 12 jumpers labelled W1...W12. W6 and W9 are always fitted. W1,W2 are near the edge fingers for Row A. W3 is near the fingers for Row B. W4,W5 are near the fingers for Row C. W6 is near the back of the board between Rows C and D. W7,W8,W11,W12 are near the fingers for Row D. W9,W10 are near the back of the board opposite Row D. Jumper: W1 W2 W3 W4 W5 W6 W7 W8 W9 W10 W11 W12 Unibus: R R I R R I I I I R I I QBus: I I R I I I R R I I R R (I = inserted R = removed) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Oct 8 15:38:57 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:22 2005 Subject: DEC 11/23 FP option (FPF11/M8188) information request In-Reply-To: <200310080952.01072.pat@purdueriots.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031008163857.007ba3d0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> pat, I have the DEC Microcomputer Processor handbook (1979/1980) and it has a complete chapter on the 11/23 CPU. There's a section in that that describes the Floating Point Option and another sewction that describes the configuration setting. But there's nothing in either section that indicates that any jumpers have to be set for the FP option. There's also a chapter on Floating Point operation but it only describes the operands and such. There's no indication in this book that you need to do anything after installing the FP option. Joe At 09:52 AM 10/8/03 -0500, you wrote: >I've managed to pick up an FPF11/M8188 (PDP-11/23 Floating Point option) >for my PDP-11/23, and I'm wondering if anyone here knows how to set up/ >configure this thing. It's a standard-looking dual-height QBUS module, >with a 2x20 pin header at the top of the card (with the QBUS fingers >pointing downward. I've got a non-+ 11/23 CPU board that I'd like to get >it to work with, currently stuck in a BA23 cabinet. > >Thanks for any help! > >-- Pat > >PLUG Vice President -- http://plug.purdue.org >Slackware Linux -- http://slackware.com >Purdue University Research Computing -- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Oct 8 15:50:17 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:22 2005 Subject: DEC 11/23 FP option (FPF11/M8188) information request In-Reply-To: <200310081324.43536.pat@purdueriots.com> References: <3F8451B6.1000303@ecubics.com> <200310080952.01072.pat@purdueriots.com> <3F8451B6.1000303@ecubics.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031008165017.007bab70@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 01:24 PM 10/8/03 -0500, you wrote: >emanuel stiebler had uttereth on Wednesday 08 October 2003 01:04 pm: >> Patrick Finnegan wrote: >> > I've managed to pick up an FPF11/M8188 (PDP-11/23 Floating Point >> > option) for my PDP-11/23, and I'm wondering if anyone here knows how >> > to set up/ configure this thing. It's a standard-looking dual-height >> > QBUS module, with a 2x20 pin header at the top of the card (with the >> > QBUS fingers pointing downward. I've got a non-+ 11/23 CPU board >> > that I'd like to get it to work with, currently stuck in a BA23 >> > cabinet. >> >> I hope I understand you here, but if you're trying to use it on a non >> 11/23 system you out of luck (OK, you can use it on a 11/24 too ...) >> If you look carefully at this board, you see that the qbus finger are >> only for the power supply of this board, there are no signals on it. >> Everything else this board needs is coming from the 11/23 or 11/24 FPU >> socket on the CPU module ... > >No, I was trying to indicate that the CPU was an 11/23 not an 11/23+. So, >do I need some magic cable to go from a DIP socket on the CPU board to >this card? If so, does anyone have a pinout for it? If you're referring to the large socket between the MMU and FP IC, then it's a spare according to my DEC handbook. Joe > >Thanks! > >Pat >-- >Purdue University ITAP/RCS >Information Technology at Purdue >Research Computing and Storage >http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Oct 8 15:24:02 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:22 2005 Subject: Acorn Econet In-Reply-To: <10310072109.ZM21159@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> from "Pete Turnbull" at Oct 7, 3 09:09:44 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3323 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20031008/9cf06335/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Oct 8 15:33:10 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:22 2005 Subject: LK201 key stuck In-Reply-To: <3F834D49.9010503@nktelco.net> from "Charles H. Dickman" at Oct 7, 3 07:33:29 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2730 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20031008/12491821/attachment.ksh From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed Oct 8 15:57:26 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:22 2005 Subject: anyone notice this gorgeous piece? In-Reply-To: Tom Uban "Re: anyone notice this gorgeous piece?" (Oct 8, 12:10) References: <5.2.0.9.0.20031008092141.020376e0@mail.ubanproductions.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20031008120505.02055630@mail.ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <10310082157.ZM22516@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Oct 8, 12:10, Tom Uban wrote: > I also have a Fujitsu M2284K drive which has the tinted > plastic HDA cover, so that you can see the guts of the > 14" drive assembly. > > http://www.ubanproductions.com/m2284k.html Yes, they're nice. I've got one too. I've also got a full-height 5_1/4" winchester with a clear perspex top. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From eric at brouhaha.com Wed Oct 8 16:12:15 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:22 2005 Subject: DEC 11/23 FP option (FPF11/M8188) information request In-Reply-To: <3F8451B6.1000303@ecubics.com> References: <200310080952.01072.pat@purdueriots.com> <3F8451B6.1000303@ecubics.com> Message-ID: <1734.4.20.168.195.1065647535.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Patrick Finnegan wrote: > I've managed to pick up an FPF11/M8188 (PDP-11/23 Floating Point option) > for my PDP-11/23, [...] I've got a non-+ 11/23 CPU board that I'd like > to get it to work with, "emanuel stiebler" wrote: > I hope I understand you here, but if you're trying to use it on a non > 11/23 system you out of luck (OK, you can use it on a 11/24 too ...) I think Patrick meant that he wants to use it on an 11/23 that is not an 11/23+. The former uses the KDF11-A dual-height CPU (M8186), and the latter uses the KDF11-B quad-height CPU (M8189). I think the FPF11 should work with either, but I'm not 100% certain. You need a cable from the 40-pin header on the FPF11 to one of the MICROM sockets on the KDF11. I'm not sure whether it makes any difference which MICROM socket is used. For example, the KUV11 WCS option (M8018) for the LSI-11 (11/03, KD11-F, M7264) needs a particular MICROM socket with an extra signal, and so it won't work on the double-height LSI-11/2 CPU (KD11-HA, M7270) which does not have that signal wired to a MICROM socket. I don't know whether the FPF11 has similar considerations. From eric at brouhaha.com Wed Oct 8 16:14:35 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:22 2005 Subject: Multi-CPU Qbus VAXen In-Reply-To: <200310081836.h98Iahe23050@abort.crash.com> References: <200310081836.h98Iahe23050@abort.crash.com> Message-ID: <1740.4.20.168.195.1065647675.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> "Steven M Jones" wrote: > On a related note, I there's a MicroNote about running multiple > MicroVAX II CPUs (KA630, M7606) in a single backplane. Up to 4 > in fact (MicroNote #26, on www.ibiblio.org). Has anyone on the > list ever worked with, built, or seen such a beast? Did any > interesting OS research projects of the time use this feature > (I'm thinking V or Mach)? The resulting system does not have shared memory (except for any Qbus memory), so it isn't generally suitable for operating systems that support SMP. That's one reason why DEC never officially supported such configurations. From lcourtney at mvista.com Wed Oct 8 16:21:45 2003 From: lcourtney at mvista.com (Lee Courtney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:22 2005 Subject: anyone notice this gorgeous piece? In-Reply-To: <200310081641.h98Gfde22364@abort.crash.com> Message-ID: <004001c38de2$2d898b60$800101df@lcourtney22k> > Museum many, many years ago. Are there some exhibits like this > in the CHM's new digs? Yes. Visible storage has an exhibit displaying various capacity hard drive assemblies. I know there are 2 early 1980s IBM HDAs with internals visible, and at least one early 1970's DEC HDA. See the new Online Visible Storage section off the Museum's main page (www.computerhistory.org) for artifacts of this type currently on display. Lee Courtney > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Steven M Jones > Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2003 9:42 AM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Cc: spector@zeitgeist.com > Subject: Re: anyone notice this gorgeous piece? > > > John Allain wrote: > . > > I take care of the all-go/no-show problem of nonremovables > > by having one drive partially dismantled, for show and it's > > twin all set up for running. To me the inside of a Fujitsu > > M2351A Eagle is as impressive machinery as a Harley engine. > > Now that would be impressive! Showing the engineering, machining, > and general complexity of gear like this would I think be > literally awesome. You might not get the kiddies to conceded that > it could be cool to play games that aren't photorealistically > rendered (let alone ASCII), but I think they'd be dumbstruck by > seeing how enormously complicated real world objects can be. > > The real-world analogy would be the moving partial cutaways of > motors seen at autoshows. I'm sure it's come up before, but I > don't remember seeing anything like this at the Boston Computer > Museum many, many years ago. Are there some exhibits like this > in the CHM's new digs? > > --S. > > From classiccmp at crash.com Wed Oct 8 16:38:48 2003 From: classiccmp at crash.com (Steven M Jones) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:22 2005 Subject: Multi-CPU Qbus VAXen Message-ID: <200310082138.h98Lcme23698@abort.crash.com> emanuel stiebler wrote: . > Check the note again. AFAIRC, this (ka630, ka650, ...) had just a > "mailbox" register to communicate, and only one cpu had access to the > qbus. The other ones had the qbus interface shut down. So, if you didn't > have you special backplane with 4 qbuses, it was pretty limited ... While the note doesn't describe how, it does indicate you have to reconfigure the auxiliary processors. Things like disabling the TOY clock, the bus arbiter logic, setting the address of the Interprocessor Communications Register (ICR, the "mailbox" you referred to). You can however do this in regular backplanes. Okay okay, you may want to make sure you use a BA11-S since it's Q22 and all Q/CD slots. The common BA23/123 backplanes would be pretty short on Q/CD slots for more than two processors unless you don't need memory for them... And then the bus termination would get pretty funky, too. Eric Smith wrote: . > The resulting system does not have shared memory (except for any > Qbus memory), so it isn't generally suitable for operating systems > that support SMP. That's one reason why DEC never officially > supported such configurations. This is one reason I thought of V, a message passing OS (unless my memory is faulty). My papers are all in a box somewhere, but it dated from the early to mid 80's at Stanford, and I'm pretty sure it ran on MicroVAXen. While there are plenty of applications where UMA is handy, necessary, or essential, there are cases where it isn't. I'm sure somebody used the feature, or it never would have been put in silicon. When I thought about the 3520/3540 I wondered if they used these features with redesigned CPU boards to provide a different memory interconnect but take advantage of the ICR etc. --S. From allain at panix.com Wed Oct 8 16:53:10 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:22 2005 Subject: cctalk Digest, Vol 2, Issue 13 References: <41C19CA3B7CBD411B59200508B6CBBFF046AC05C@ah-exchange-01.arh.cdc.com> Message-ID: <005501c38de6$9133ee40$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > I happen to work at the company known as the former CDC... > Would this stuff be worthwhile trying to rescue from the 'scrap heap'? Yeahaugh I'd say that any complete functioning component that weighs less than 140 pounds or can be disnmantled in under an hour into carryable components is worth mentioning here. John A. 140 pounds is the heaviest thing I've carried (metal). It's not clear if a maleable thing would be easier to carry, with its movable center of gravity. I need a test subject, preferrably female. From mtapley at swri.edu Wed Oct 8 18:00:25 2003 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:22 2005 Subject: cctalk Digest, Vol 2, Issue 13 In-Reply-To: <005501c38de6$9133ee40$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> References: <41C19CA3B7CBD411B59200508B6CBBFF046AC05C@ah-exchange-01.arh.cdc.com> <005501c38de6$9133ee40$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: >John A. >140 pounds is the heaviest thing I've carried (metal). >It's not clear if a maleable thing would be easier ^^^^^ I daren't ask whether you meant "malleable". ;-) >to carry, with its movable center of gravity. >I need a test subject, preferrably female. -- - Mark 210-522-6025, page 888-733-0967 From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Oct 8 15:43:27 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:22 2005 Subject: DEC 11/23 FP option (FPF11/M8188) information request In-Reply-To: <200310081324.43536.pat@purdueriots.com> from "Patrick Finnegan" at Oct 8, 3 01:24:43 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1105 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20031008/8fcd1ada/attachment.ksh From vcf at siconic.com Wed Oct 8 22:28:18 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:22 2005 Subject: cctalk Digest, Vol 2, Issue 13 In-Reply-To: <005501c38de6$9133ee40$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: On Wed, 8 Oct 2003, John Allain wrote: > 140 pounds is the heaviest thing I've carried (metal). > It's not clear if a maleable thing would be easier > to carry, with its movable center of gravity. > I need a test subject, preferrably female. It's really easy when you're carrying her to the bedroom. OH MY GAWD! WHAT AM I SAYING? :) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Wed Oct 8 23:36:42 2003 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:22 2005 Subject: cctalk Digest, Vol 2, Issue 13 References: Message-ID: <3F84E5DA.50209@jetnet.ab.ca> Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Wed, 8 Oct 2003, John Allain wrote: > > >>140 pounds is the heaviest thing I've carried (metal). >>It's not clear if a maleable thing would be easier >>to carry, with its movable center of gravity. >>I need a test subject, preferrably female. > > > It's really easy when you're carrying her to the bedroom. > > OH MY GAWD! WHAT AM I SAYING? > > :) > Ok , you leave her there. I'll carry her to the bedroom. :) From tothwolf at concentric.net Thu Oct 9 00:16:08 2003 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:22 2005 Subject: cctalk Digest, Vol 2, Issue 13 In-Reply-To: <3F84E5DA.50209@jetnet.ab.ca> References: <3F84E5DA.50209@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, 8 Oct 2003, ben franchuk wrote: > Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > On Wed, 8 Oct 2003, John Allain wrote: > > > > > 140 pounds is the heaviest thing I've carried (metal). It's not > > > clear if a maleable thing would be easier to carry, with its > > > movable center of gravity. I need a test subject, preferrably > > > female. > > > > It's really easy when you're carrying her to the bedroom. > > > > OH MY GAWD! WHAT AM I SAYING? > > Ok , you leave her there. I'll carry her to the bedroom. :) Bedroom? Wheres your sense of adventure? ;) -Toth From asholz at topinform.com Thu Oct 9 01:28:40 2003 From: asholz at topinform.com (Andreas Holz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:22 2005 Subject: Digi-Data corporation Tape drive docs sought In-Reply-To: <4A87BB40-F7A7-11D7-9719-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> References: <4A87BB40-F7A7-11D7-9719-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> Message-ID: <3F850018.1060405@topinform.com> Hello all, I got a Digi-Data Corporation, Model 1149-86-2-240-FP, Tape-Drive. I'm interested in any kind of documentation, esp, how to connect this tape to an Emulex TC02 tape-controller. The tape-controller has two connectors labeled J1 and J2, the tape-drive has four connectors, labeled JA to JD, so there are multiple choices while tring to connect the tape-drive, so I need some help! Andreas From waltje at pdp11.nl Thu Oct 9 01:29:18 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:22 2005 Subject: cctalk Digest, Vol 2, Issue 13 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > > OH MY GAWD! WHAT AM I SAYING? > > > > Ok , you leave her there. I'll carry her to the bedroom. :) > > Bedroom? Wheres your sense of adventure? ;) "A Real Retroist(tm) does it... on top of a VAX 11/7x0 !" .. --f -- Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist Visit the VAXlab Project at http://www.pdp11.nl/VAXlab/ Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Sunnyvale, CA, USA From nico at farumdata.dk Thu Oct 9 01:56:03 2003 From: nico at farumdata.dk (Nico de Jong) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:22 2005 Subject: cctalk Digest, Vol 2, Issue 13 References: Message-ID: <000c01c38e32$68a8ae60$2101a8c0@farumdata.dk> From: "Fred N. van Kempen" > > Bedroom? Wheres your sense of adventure? ;) > > "A Real Retroist(tm) does it... on top of a VAX 11/7x0 !" .. > Yes, but "real programmers" like me :-) do IT bit by bit Nico From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu Oct 9 02:33:56 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:22 2005 Subject: DEC 11/23 FP option (FPF11/M8188) information request In-Reply-To: Joe "Re: DEC 11/23 FP option (FPF11/M8188) information request" (Oct 8, 16:50) References: <3F8451B6.1000303@ecubics.com> <200310080952.01072.pat@purdueriots.com> <3.0.6.32.20031008165017.007bab70@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <10310090833.ZM23017@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Oct 8, 16:50, Joe wrote: > At 01:24 PM 10/8/03 -0500, you wrote: > >No, I was trying to indicate that the CPU was an 11/23 not an 11/23+. So, > >do I need some magic cable to go from a DIP socket on the CPU board to > >this card? If so, does anyone have a pinout for it? > > If you're referring to the large socket between the MMU and FP IC, then > it's a spare according to my DEC handbook. You take the FPU chip out, and put the connector for the FPP in its place. There's no point in having both! -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu Oct 9 02:33:43 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:22 2005 Subject: Acorn Econet In-Reply-To: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) "Re: Acorn Econet" (Oct 8, 21:24) References: Message-ID: <10310090833.ZM23014@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Oct 8, 21:24, Tony Duell wrote: > I see... Since I intend to start out by linking the ACW to a couple of > other machines (one acting as a fileserver), all on the same bench, I > assume I can get away with just about any cable :-) Well, I'd not use tinsel cable or damp string (even with salt) but apart from that... > Actually, I am not sure the card in the Atom is a real Acorn one. It's > the same circuit, and the same layout, but the PCB is not solder-masked. > It may be a copy.. Possibly. HCCS made some, I think. > > > The B+ (in the ACW) has PCB positions for the collision-detect > > comparator > > > chip, etc, but they're not fitted.... > > > > It's worth doing. > > OK, I'll add them sometime. It's farily obvious what to do from the > schematics (I have those). Will the software make use of the collision > detect circuitry, or do I need a particular version of the NFS ROM? No, all the ROMs I know of can handle that. > I wondered if you could do that... Alas I don't have the official Acorn > schematics for the clock and terminator, so while I can see the empty > places for termination resistors on the clock PCB, and while I can make a > guess as to the values, I don't know if said guess is good. Do you happen > to have a parts list or schematic? I have a schematic around here somewhere. [hunts through directories on nearby machine] Ah, that one's for the passive (DIN plug) one: A three-resistor divider chain, 1K0 at the top, 220R in the middle, 1K0 at the bottom, connected to ground (pin 2). Data+ (pin 1) goes to the to of the 220R, Data- (pin 4) goes to the lower end. A pair of 56R resistors goes from each of Clock+ (pin 3) and Clock- (pin 5) to the top of the upper 1K0. A 10 uF electrolytic goes from the junction of the 2 x 56R and upper 1K0, to ground. Jules Richardson has my pile of paper schematics, and I think that's where the other one is :-( Oh, but of course I have the box itself. Here we are: C1, C2: 10uF 10V C3: 10nF ceramic R1, R2: 56R R3: 100R R7: 470R D1: OA47 (anything with a low Vf, eg a Schottky diode, should do) IC3: LM7805 LED1: any old red LED (or you might want to change the colour for the combined clock/terminator unit) SK1: 5-pin 180deg PCB DIN socket SK2: power jack Fit wire links at LK1, LK2, LK3. Do you needs the component values for the collision-detect circuitry as well? I've got B and B+ diagrams here, which show them. > Well, I am a great beleiver in proper termination (resistors are cheap, > my time in tracing bad signals isn't). So, for example, while I might run > a Unibus for testing with only one terminator (if it's just one > backplane, say), any machine that I use will have a terminator at each > end. And I'll do the same with Econet. I should hope so too! You'll see a difference if you remove a terminator from an Econet of any useful size -- used to be a real problem in scholls, if they used DIN-plug terminators (kids used to "borrow" them). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From TRASH3 at splab.cas.neu.edu Thu Oct 9 07:36:59 2003 From: TRASH3 at splab.cas.neu.edu (TRASH3@splab.cas.neu.edu) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:22 2005 Subject: Digi-Data corporation Tape drive docs sought Message-ID: <031009083659.12062@splab.cas.neu.edu> 114 (7 inch diameter reel, 25 ips max speed) 9 (9 track) - 86 (800/1600 bpi) - 2 (again, 25 ips) - 240 ( 240 volts ac) - Fp (PE only) The manual shows 6 connectors on the bottom of the unit, probably inside. These are labelled J1 through J6. J1,J2 are motor control. J3, J4 are read card. J5,J6 are write/control card. J1,J2 are closest to front. On the top edge of the write/control card (closest to rear) are the two fifty-pin I/O connections. The manual says nothing about JA through JD. Perhaps it is an add-on formatter, which is not detailed in the manuals. Hope that helps, but I don't see how. Nothing matches for connectors. Joe Heck Andreas wrote: Subj: Digi-Data corporation Tape drive docs sought Hello all, I got a Digi-Data Corporation, Model 1149-86-2-240-FP, Tape-Drive. I'm interested in any kind of documentation, esp, how to connect this tape to an Emulex TC02 tape-controller. The tape-controller has two connectors labeled J1 and J2, the tape-drive has four connectors, labeled JA to JD, so there are multiple choices while tring to connect the tape-drive, so I need some help! Andreas From philip at awale.qc.ca Mon Oct 6 13:03:54 2003 From: philip at awale.qc.ca (philip@awale.qc.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:22 2005 Subject: Mac SE/30 revived! woot! In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.22.2.20031004132109.04a36b50@mail.zipcon.net> Message-ID: On 04-Oct-2003 Geoff Reed wrote: > >> >Now I go hunt for an SE PDS ethernet card. (Anyone have a spare?) > > I may have an old SE/30 ethernet card... Would you be prepared to trade/give/sell it? Also, I believe that I'll need some sort of riser? The cut-out on the case is 2 inches above where the motherboard is... -Philip From keith at saracom.com Mon Oct 6 17:33:50 2003 From: keith at saracom.com (Maxwell K. Froedge) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:22 2005 Subject: cctalk Digest, Vol 2, Issue 9 In-Reply-To: <200310061700.h96H03H5038476@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.1.20031006182547.01718018@mail.saracom.com> Jay, You want a machine with a 1.2 meg floppy diskette drive. You also do not want to use the 1.2 meg floppy diskettes. Instead use the 360K or even better quad density. Putr is by John Wilson. His website is: www.dbit.com FTP isL ftp.dbit.com Max At 12:00 PM 10/6/2003 -0500, you wrote: >Message: 16 >Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 09:21:04 -0500 >From: "Jay West" >Subject: memory refresher on PUTR >To: >Message-ID: <017401c38c15$13c53900$033310ac@kwcorp.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > >I used to know this, but have forgotten, and now I'm getting ready to dig >the software back out... > >I believe it was a program called PUTR that I used on a PC to read/write >5.25 floppy disks to exchange data with my PDP-11/23 that had an RX50 drive >in it. Should the PC drive be a 360k floppy or a 1.2m floppy? > >Wonder if there is some story as to the history of "disc" vs. "disk" :) HP >always used "disc". > >Jay West > >--- From jontitus at comcast.net Mon Oct 6 20:08:17 2003 From: jontitus at comcast.net (Jon Titus) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:23 2005 Subject: GE 73 bulbs for RL02 In-Reply-To: <200310062338.h96NbwH5040359@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: Try Bulb Direct at www.bulbdirect.com. I didn't see anything on the company's Web pages about a minimum order. Search for "73." You can view an outline of the bulb. I'm not sure the two "73" bulbs they offer fill the bill, but you can check it out. Jon Jon Titus 36 Sunset Drive Milford, MA 01757-1362 USA Phone: +1-508-478-8040 E-mail: jontitus@comcast.net Member, National Association of Science Writers -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of cctalk-request@classiccmp.org Sent: Monday, October 06, 2003 7:38 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: cctalk Digest, Vol 2, Issue 10 Send cctalk mailing list submissions to cctalk@classiccmp.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctalk or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to cctalk-request@classiccmp.org You can reach the person managing the list at cctalk-owner@classiccmp.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of cctalk digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Garage sale, DEC 3000/500 $50, HSZ40 $25, ... (Shannon Hoskins) 2. Re: Used Atari 2600 Game Cartridge goes for over $70 (David Holland) 3. Re: memory refresher on PUTR (W.B.(Wim) Hofman) 4. Re: black paper tape = mylar? (Eric Smith) 5. Re: memory refresher on PUTR (Eric Smith) 6. Re: memory refresher on PUTR (Fred N. van Kempen) 7. Re: 27SF512-70 (Joe) 8. Re: black paper tape = mylar? (Joe) 9. DEC cards available (John Rollins) 10. RE: Help! need 400k/800k Mac os 6 or 7 diskettes! (John Rollins) 11. Re: Am I seeing things? (Zane H. Healy) 12. Re: Am I seeing things? (Ed Sharpe) 13. Re: Am I seeing things? (Jay West) 14. Re: 27SF512-70 (John Lawson) 15. FA: HP 3000 cards and Omnibook Docking Station (Joe) 16. Re: Am I seeing things? (Vintage Computer Festival) 17. Re: Am I seeing things? (Fred N. van Kempen) 18. Re: Am I seeing things? (Joe) 19. Re: Help! need 400k/800k Mac os 6 or 7 diskettes! (TeoZ) 20. Re: Am I seeing things? (Joe) 21. RCS/RI Still In Existence? (O. Sharp) 22. VCF - Stuff for Sale (Marvin Johnston) 23. Re: Am I seeing things? (Ed Sharpe) 24. Re: Intel Programmer IPPS format (Robert Maxwell) 25. Re: Am I seeing things? (Fred N. van Kempen) 26. Re: DEC cards available Update (John Rollins Jr) 27. Re: Am I seeing things? (Chad Fernandez) 28. Re: Am I seeing things? (chris) 29. RE: Help! need 400k/800k Mac os 6 or 7 diskettes! (chris) 30. Re: Am I seeing things? (John Lawson) 31. Re: Need IIci cache cards (Geoff Reed) 32. Posting times (Marvin Johnston) 33. Re: Betr.: Acorn Econet (Tony Duell) 34. GE 73 bulbs for RL02 (John A. Dundas III) 35. VCF Want: Pertec formatters for Kennedy 9100 (John Lawson) 36. Re: VCF Want: Pertec formatters for Kennedy 9100 (Al Kossow) 37. SemiDisk Solid State Disk Emulator (Patrick Rigney) 38. Re: Help! need 400k/800k Mac os 6 or 7 diskettes! (Ian Primus) 39. Re: Posting times (Al Kossow) 40. Re: black paper tape = mylar? (Bob Shannon) 41. Re: Fat (512K) Mac Revival? (Andrew Strouse) 42. Re: Help! need 400k/800k Mac os 6 or 7 diskettes! (chris) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 08:39:13 -0700 From: "Shannon Hoskins" Subject: Re: Garage sale, DEC 3000/500 $50, HSZ40 $25, ... To: "General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only" Message-ID: <000c01c38c1f$ff2b2bc0$7f3ba5d1@shannon> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hello Zane, Where are you located? Sincerely, Shannon Hoskins ----- Original Message ----- From: "Zane H. Healy" To: Sent: Friday, October 03, 2003 3:19 PM Subject: Re: Garage sale, DEC 3000/500 $50, HSZ40 $25, ... > > Am I crazy to sell a DEC 3000/500 server (desk side) for $50? I > > believe it's got all the RAM it can fit and disk in and lots SCSI > > plugs out. My HSZ40s go for $25 a piece. My HP9000K400 with 2xDDS2 > > drives and 30 GB (?) RAID array and HP Terminal all in one rack go > > for $100. > > > > Am I crazy or just fed up about stuff taking space in my garage? > > I can't really comment on the HP (though it might be a little low). The > DEC3000/500 sounds about right. The HSZ40's are old enough to probably be > reasonable. > > Zane ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 13:14:56 -0400 (EDT) From: David Holland Subject: Re: Used Atari 2600 Game Cartridge goes for over $70 To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 6 Oct 2003, TeoZ wrote: > easily, just be carefull. Then again the stuff I look for isnt that > expensive, I dont think I spent more then $150 on any 1 item on ebay and > that was when I started 3 years ago. Eh, I have. SGI Octane, MXI graphics, 195Mhz R10K, 256Mb mem, No Disk 400$. A year later, I still consider 400$ a pretty reasonable deal. The only reason I considered it was the seller was local.... I picked it up in person. Obligatory ontopic piece: I've a SGI Crimson w VGXT too, Anyone got a sled or and/or skins they want to get rid of cheap.. :-) David ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 19:46:43 +0200 From: "W.B.(Wim) Hofman" Subject: Re: memory refresher on PUTR To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Message-ID: <001501c38c32$071e8540$8594f0c3@computer4> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" 360 Wim ----- Original Message ----- From: Jay West To: Sent: Monday, October 06, 2003 4:21 PM Subject: memory refresher on PUTR > I used to know this, but have forgotten, and now I'm getting ready to dig > the software back out... > > I believe it was a program called PUTR that I used on a PC to read/write > 5.25 floppy disks to exchange data with my PDP-11/23 that had an RX50 drive > in it. Should the PC drive be a 360k floppy or a 1.2m floppy? > > Wonder if there is some story as to the history of "disc" vs. "disk" :) HP > always used "disc". > > Jay West > > --- > [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 11:00:41 -0700 (PDT) From: "Eric Smith" Subject: Re: black paper tape = mylar? To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Message-ID: <39309.64.169.63.74.1065463241.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 > I was wanting to get some mylar paper tape. There is an auction on Ebay > for > 6 rolls of "black paper tape"... can one generally assume that black paper > tape is mylar and not just paper? No. All the black "paper tape" I've ever used was in fact paper. ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 11:02:39 -0700 (PDT) From: "Eric Smith" Subject: Re: memory refresher on PUTR To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Message-ID: <39321.64.169.63.74.1065463359.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 > I believe it was a program called PUTR that I used on a PC to read/write > 5.25 floppy disks to exchange data with my PDP-11/23 that had an RX50 > drive > in it. Should the PC drive be a 360k floppy or a 1.2m floppy? 1.2M. The RX50 is an 80-track single sided drive, so their is no way to read or write the discs in a 40-track 360k drive. But a 1.2M drive will work fine. ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 20:30:57 +0200 (CEST) From: "Fred N. van Kempen" Subject: Re: memory refresher on PUTR To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 6 Oct 2003, Eric Smith wrote: > > I believe it was a program called PUTR that I used on a PC to read/write > > 5.25 floppy disks to exchange data with my PDP-11/23 that had an RX50 > > drive > > in it. Should the PC drive be a 360k floppy or a 1.2m floppy? > > 1.2M. The RX50 is an 80-track single sided drive, so their is no way > to read or write the discs in a 40-track 360k drive. But a 1.2M drive > will work fine. Hmm.. Jay: I stand corrected. Indeed, they're 80tr, not 40tr... --f ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2003 11:33:27 -0400 From: Joe Subject: Re: 27SF512-70 To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031006113327.007d6bb0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Somebody needs to tell this clown that this isn't his private procurement list! Joe At 05:09 PM 10/3/03 -0500, you wrote: >I would like to know if you have any of these chips available. They are >the direct flash replacement for the 27C512 that I'm looking for. > >Thanks >Mehdi Mir > ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2003 11:35:36 -0400 From: Joe Subject: Re: black paper tape = mylar? To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031006113536.007d76a0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 07:48 AM 10/6/03 -0500, you wrote: >I was wanting to get some mylar paper tape. There is an auction on Ebay for >6 rolls of "black paper tape"... can one generally assume that black paper >tape is mylar and not just paper? NO! I have several boxs of black PAPER tape so they do (did!) make the stuff. Joe > >The URL is http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2562042672 > >Can anyone advise if this is likely to be mylar or not? > >Regards, > >Jay West > >--- >[This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > > ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 11:34:42 -0700 From: John Rollins Subject: DEC cards available To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" I got these cards a while back(I think I asked what they were here on the list back in 2001), mostly MicroVAX II cards I think, all Q-bus. I'm mostly interested in getting these out of the way... I have no plans for building or keeping spares for a MicroVAX or anything beside my 11/84. Not sure what they're worth, and keep in mind they are untested. Make an offer plus actual shipping - I'll also consider trades for Unibus cards for my 11/84. Whatever the list doesn't want I'll probably put on eBay(I'll give you guys a week or two for those that don't keep up with their email very well). National Semiconductor NS638 - memory card with a 50-pin connector on the front Sigma Information Systems DZV11 clone unknown Emulex - marked TU0210401 M7551-CA MSV11-QC Q 4-Mbyte 22-bit parity/CSR MOS RAM M7164 KDA50-Q Q-bus SDI adapter 1 of 2 M7606-AF MicroVAX II CPU M7608-BC not in guide? MicroVAX II RAM M7608-BF M7516-YM DELQA-M Q Qbus to Ethernet Turbo Module, Q22 M8053-MA DMV11 Microprogrammed controller (needs one of M5930-M5931) with DDCMP control ROM (point-to-point or multidrop) I have three of these: M3104 DHV11-A Q 8-line Asynchronous Multiplexor, with DMA -- /------------------------------------\ | http://jrollins.tripod.com/ | | KD7BCY kd7bcy@teleport.com | \------------------------------------/From cctalk-admin Mon Oct 6 13:43:26 2003 Received: from epic.mail.pas.earthlink.net (epic.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.181]) by huey.classiccmp.org (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h96IhQH3038860 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 13:43:26 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from kd7bcy@teleport.com) Received: from sdn-ap-014watacop0163.dialsprint.net ([63.191.200.163]) by epic.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1A6aC4-0004hY-00 for cctalk@classiccmp.org; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 11:34:53 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: kd7bcy@mail.teleport.com Message-Id: Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 11:07:28 -0700 To: cctalk@classiccmp.org From: John Rollins Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Subject: Am I seeing things? X-BeenThere: cctalk@classiccmp.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list Reply-To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" List-Id: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Is it just me or are there a lot of people posting to the list responding to things that are non existent or ancient from an archive or something? Especially these people mentioning a web site and asking to buy something. Seems that there has been a lot of that lately. -- /------------------------------------\ | http://jrollins.tripod.com/ | | KD7BCY kd7bcy@teleport.com | \------------------------------------/ ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 12:10:09 -0700 From: John Rollins Subject: RE: Help! need 400k/800k Mac os 6 or 7 diskettes! To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >Apple stopped having the drives read and write 400 and 800 k disks a >while ago. Actually the System does that... I don't remember when though. I think it might have been System 8 that stopped reading 400k, I remember because I was real mad about not being able to use my PM6500 to do disks for my 128k, and then I ended up with an iMac and the iDock doesn't work under X(until you pull the cable going to the ADB and serial that is) but the USB floppy only handles 1.4MB anyway! So now it's time to get the LC up and running again I guess. But if you have Mac with the SuperDrive(floppy, not DVD-R!) in it, and you have something prior to System 8/9, you can do 400k disks all day long. Just keep a System 7 boot disk around! That oughta work with anything prior to a G3. -- /------------------------------------\ | http://jrollins.tripod.com/ | | KD7BCY kd7bcy@teleport.com | \------------------------------------/ ------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 12:12:48 -0700 From: "Zane H. Healy" Subject: Re: Am I seeing things? To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Is it just me or are there a lot of people posting to the list responding to things that are non existent or ancient from an archive or something? Especially these people mentioning a web site and asking to buy something. Seems that there has been a lot of that lately. I must confess, I was wondering about the "Re: VAXen available" message... It made now sense to me. Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | ------------------------------ Message: 12 Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 13:18:06 -0700 From: "Ed Sharpe" Subject: Re: Am I seeing things? To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Message-ID: <000d01c38c46$f474cac0$262e98ac@aoldsl.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" and I thought I was the one imagining it! ed! ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Rollins" To: Sent: Monday, October 06, 2003 11:07 AM Subject: Am I seeing things? > Is it just me or are there a lot of people posting to the list > responding to things that are non existent or ancient from an archive > or something? Especially these people mentioning a web site and > asking to buy something. Seems that there has been a lot of that > lately. > > > -- > > /------------------------------------\ > | http://jrollins.tripod.com/ | > | KD7BCY kd7bcy@teleport.com | > \------------------------------------/ > > ------------------------------ Message: 13 Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 14:12:48 -0500 From: "Jay West" Subject: Re: Am I seeing things? To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Message-ID: <00b001c38c3d$d4fdc380$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Yes, there is a public archive of the list postings. I kinda thought that's what the public archives were FOR? I especially like it when they talk about ancient things *S* I filter a lot of these so they never hit the list. But often I let them through because I feel that is what we are here for.. to be a resource. Maybe I'm being too lenient? J > Is it just me or are there a lot of people posting to the list > responding to things that are non existent or ancient from an archive > or something? Especially these people mentioning a web site and > asking to buy something. Seems that there has been a lot of that > lately. --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] ------------------------------ Message: 14 Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 15:30:21 -0400 (EDT) From: John Lawson Subject: Re: 27SF512-70 To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 6 Oct 2003, Joe wrote: > Somebody needs to tell this clown that this isn't his private procurement > list! > > Joe Hey Joe... decaf, man - remember: Decaf!! ;} Anyway - do recall that whenever someone Googles for a specific part, it is possible that they get pointed to an old message from Classiccmp in an archive - and so they don't really have any way of knowing that they are adressing a list of amateur collectors - so ya cut 'em some slack a bit.. And just think - what if it was *you* that just happened to have a nice stash of them chips the poor guy is desperate for... woo hoo!! Cheers John ------------------------------ Message: 15 Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2003 15:34:46 -0400 From: Joe Subject: FA: HP 3000 cards and Omnibook Docking Station To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031006153446.007f3d70@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Joe ------------------------------ Message: 16 Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 12:40:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Vintage Computer Festival Subject: Re: Am I seeing things? To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 6 Oct 2003, John Rollins wrote: > Is it just me or are there a lot of people posting to the list > responding to things that are non existent or ancient from an archive > or something? Especially these people mentioning a web site and > asking to buy something. Seems that there has been a lot of that > lately. It comes in spurts. I think Jay is still (hopefully) working on a solution ;) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage mputers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at ttp://marketplace.vintage.org ] ------------------------------ Message: 17 Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 21:41:37 +0200 (CEST) From: "Fred N. van Kempen" Subject: Re: Am I seeing things? To: Ed Sharpe , "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII This seems to be coming our way in waves.... ahwell. --f ------------------------------ Message: 18 Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2003 15:42:39 -0400 From: Joe Subject: Re: Am I seeing things? To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031006154239.007b9b70@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 11:07 AM 10/6/03 -0700, you wrote: >Is it just me or are there a lot of people posting to the list >responding to things that are non existent or ancient from an archive >or something? They seem to be responding to things out of the archive. Most of them are OLD and a couple of them are really OT. Personally I'd like to filter out any messages from non-members, or at least have them pre-viewed and approved by someone. My $.02 worth, Joe Especially these people mentioning a web site and >asking to buy something. Seems that there has been a lot of that >lately. > > >-- > >/------------------------------------\ >| http://jrollins.tripod.com/ | >| KD7BCY kd7bcy@teleport.com | >\------------------------------------/ > ------------------------------ Message: 19 Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 15:45:30 -0400 From: "TeoZ" Subject: Re: Help! need 400k/800k Mac os 6 or 7 diskettes! To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Message-ID: <010b01c38c42$66277d20$3d7ca418@neo.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I have use my "newer" macs 8500/7500/840av/950/IIfx to make 800k disks for my IIgs and have noticed that the auto inject 1.44 drives use on the older systems (IIfx, 840av, 950) have no problems making disks that are readable on the IIgs while the 8500/7500 non inject floppies cant do it reliably. So your better off using an old quadra to make 800k disks for older machines. I have no idea about writing 400k disks because I dont have any machines that use them. ------------------------------ Message: 20 Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2003 15:47:09 -0400 From: Joe Subject: Re: Am I seeing things? To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031006154709.007ba540@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 02:12 PM 10/6/03 -0500, you wrote: >Yes, there is a public archive of the list postings. I kinda thought that's >what the public archives were FOR? I especially like it when they talk >about ancient things *S* > >I filter a lot of these so they never hit the list. But often I let them >through because I feel that is what we are here for.. to be a resource. >Maybe I'm being too lenient? Probably. I've replied to a couple of people looking for things and NONE of them has ever responded so I seldom bother any more. Joe ------------------------------ Message: 21 Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 12:47:07 -0700 (PDT) From: "O. Sharp" Subject: RCS/RI Still In Existence? To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Does anybody know if the Retrocomputing Society of Rhode Island (http://osfn.org/rcs/) is still around? I've sent a couple of e-mails their way, and tried their phone number, but not with any luck. I saw one of the things on their online "wish-list" up for auction on eBay, and thought about having a go at getting it for them, but it'd be nice to know if they still needed it first. (Not to mention making sure I wasn't bidding _against_ them. ) -O.- ------------------------------ Message: 22 Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2003 12:58:17 -0700 From: Marvin Johnston Subject: VCF - Stuff for Sale To: ClassicCmp Message-ID: <3F81C959.8B4B6FAA@rain.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Rather than post the stuff here, a link to the things I'll be selling at VCF is at: http://www.rain.org/~marvin/vcf.txt As the week goes by, I'll be adding to the list and updating it as necessary. ------------------------------ Message: 23 Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 14:12:13 -0700 From: "Ed Sharpe" Subject: Re: Am I seeing things? To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Message-ID: <004b01c38c4e$83718ae0$262e98ac@aoldsl.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" no we just got confused as we all belong to both lists.... but it was freaky when it would appear as a group on the other list.... sometimes we forget there are two lists... no problem just tempory confusion all is well! ed! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jay West" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Monday, October 06, 2003 12:12 PM Subject: Re: Am I seeing things? > Yes, there is a public archive of the list postings. I kinda thought that's > what the public archives were FOR? I especially like it when they talk > about ancient things *S* > > I filter a lot of these so they never hit the list. But often I let them > through because I feel that is what we are here for.. to be a resource. > Maybe I'm being too lenient? > > J > > Is it just me or are there a lot of people posting to the list > > responding to things that are non existent or ancient from an archive > > or something? Especially these people mentioning a web site and > > asking to buy something. Seems that there has been a lot of that > > lately. > > --- > [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > > > ------------------------------ Message: 24 Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 16:24:35 -0400 From: Robert Maxwell Subject: Re: Intel Programmer IPPS format To: "'cctech@classiccmp.org'" , "'dmabry@mich.com'" Message-ID: <9726BA9DE867D51183B900B0D0AB85F8013E4873@INETMAIL> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Dave, your hazy memory is great. You just filled in a critical blank that has made a world of difference. Searching the planet for references to "IPPS" turned up nothing, but "OMF" is still quite nicely documented on the Web. My favorite file-format reference, www.wotsit.org, has a document for OMF, as do some other sites. Armed with this knowledge, I can now look at modifying an old Motorola S-record to Intel Hex converter with a new front end to suck up the OMF records and spit them out in Hex. All the best, Bob Maxwell rmaxwell@atlantissi.com Dave Mabry wrote: > Now, as is normal for me, this is hazy, but I think I > remember what you > are talking about. > > Intel used a format they called "object module format" that > had header > information on each block, and several possible blocks. As I recall, > the MCS48 family, due to its limited memory addressibility, used the > same OMF (object module format) as the 8080. > > Naturally, since Intel defined it, all their tools could read > and write > it. IPPS was the name of the software used to read and write EPROMS, > etc, using Intel's iUP-201 programmer. > > All that being said, I think I can help you. If you don't > have anything > that can read and understand Intel's OMF, I do. I have a > working system > that can execute IPPS. There are other utilities in the > Intel operating > system, ISIS-II, that can also do this. I should be able to convert > your OMF file to an Intel HEX format file. Intel HEX is very > common and > most programmers can understand it. It is also block oriented, but > ascii characters rather than pure binary. > > Sorry to be so wordy, but bottom line is this. (into > Technicolor dream > mode) If you send me your OMF file I can convert it to HEX > and send it > back to you. Hope that will help. > > Dave > > Robert Maxwell wrote: > > This will meet the on-topic age requirement, at least... > > > > For programming devices like processors and EPROMS with > an Intel Universal > > Programmer, > > a file format was used, called "IPPS." I need to program > 8749 processors > > from files > > in IPPS format, and have no working Universal Programmer. > > > > The format appears to be a block-oriented binary, with a > file header > > identifying the > > target device, and headers of indeterminate size preceding > sections of > > binary code. > > Nobody I spoke to at Intel recognizes it. > > > > Does anybody remember, or have access to, > documentation/data or (dreaming > > in Technicolor(R)) > > a utility to convert IPPS files into a less-unique format, > say binary or > > Intel Hex? This > > would save me from having to type in hex values from an old > listing to > > regenerate the code. ------------------------------ Message: 25 Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 22:27:55 +0200 (CEST) From: "Fred N. van Kempen" Subject: Re: Am I seeing things? To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 6 Oct 2003, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > It comes in spurts. I think Jay is still (hopefully) working on a > solution ;) Yeah, lets hope Jay's working on his spurts. --f ------------------------------ Message: 26 Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 13:33:49 -0700 (GMT-07:00) From: John Rollins Jr Subject: Re: DEC cards available Update To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Message-ID: <11306683.1065472434057.JavaMail.root@waldorf.psp.pas.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Started to go fast! These are still available: National Semiconductor NS638 - memory card with a 50-pin connector on the front Sigma Information Systems DZV11 clone unknown Emulex - marked TU0210401 M7164 KDA50-Q Q-bus SDI adapter 1 of 2 M7606-AF MicroVAX II CPU M7608-BC not in guide? MicroVAX II RAM M7608-BF I have three of these: M3104 DHV11-A Q 8-line Asynchronous Multiplexor, with DMA These have been spoken for: M7551-CA MSV11-QC Q 4-Mbyte 22-bit parity/CSR MOS RAM M7516-YM DELQA-M Q Qbus to Ethernet Turbo Module, Q22 M8053-MA DMV11 Microprogrammed controller (needs one of M5930-M5931) with DDCMP control ROM (point-to-point or multidrop) Thanks! -JR ------------------------------ Message: 27 Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2003 16:30:40 -0400 From: Chad Fernandez Subject: Re: Am I seeing things? To: General@internet1.net, "Discussion@internet1.net":On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Message-ID: <3F81D0F0.9090108@internet1.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed That was a reply to a message that Chuck McMannis posted. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Zane H. Healy wrote: >>Is it just me or are there a lot of people posting to the list responding to things that are non existent or ancient from an archive or something? Especially these people mentioning a web site and asking to buy something. Seems that there has been a lot of that lately. > > > I must confess, I was wondering about the "Re: VAXen available" message... It made now sense to me. > > Zane > ------------------------------ Message: 28 Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 16:37:07 -0400 From: chris Subject: Re: Am I seeing things? To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts " Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" >I filter a lot of these so they never hit the list. But often I let them >through because I feel that is what we are here for.. to be a resource. >Maybe I'm being too lenient? I'm wondering if you can somehow mark the message as one that came from someone off list. I bring this up, because I've been confused by some and wondering if responses should go onlist or off list. If the poster is off list, then responses should go directly to them, or they won't get their response for a few months until the archives have circulated thru google and the likes. just my thoughts, I'm not trying to imply it needs to be followed. Nor trying to start a discussion on the topic. -chris ------------------------------ Message: 29 Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 16:39:32 -0400 From: chris Subject: RE: Help! need 400k/800k Mac os 6 or 7 diskettes! To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts " Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" >>Apple stopped having the drives read and write 400 and 800 k disks a >>while ago. > >Actually the System does that... I don't remember when though. Well, yes, I didn't mean to imply that it was a drive limit. Just that Apple stopped letting a user read and write 400 and 800 K disks a while ago (I believe you are right and it was OS 8, but I'm not postive). -chris ------------------------------ Message: 30 Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 16:44:31 -0400 (EDT) From: John Lawson Subject: Re: Am I seeing things? To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 6 Oct 2003, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Mon, 6 Oct 2003, John Rollins wrote: > > > Is it just me or are there a lot of people posting to the list [snippage] > > It comes in spurts. I think Jay is still (hopefully) working on a > solution ;) > As Jay mentioned - I'm not altogether sure that these messages from folks are a Bad Thing - it never hurts to have 'fresh' sources for collection related possiblilties. Recall that the PDP 11/44 system I own was rescued from a Big Corporation (and certain death) due to the ex-sysop finding classiccmp quite by accident. Now, in the case of blatant commercial exploitative type ads, or spam, then of course it should hopefully be diverted to /dev/nul. But I think a little tolerance shoyuld be shown for folks who are just researching parts and systems - at least we can be polite in our explanations. And yes, these type of "I was searching for X and found your site.." messages *do* seem to come in waves... I dunno... Cheers John ------------------------------ Message: 31 Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2003 13:57:51 -0700 From: Geoff Reed Subject: Re: Need IIci cache cards To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.2.20031006135647.04a4b0f0@mail.zipcon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 07:47 AM 10/6/03, you wrote: >If I remember the benchmark results correctly, the extra 32k speeds up video >by a few percent, and "Scientific" operations (IE floating point math) by a >few tens of percentage points. > >I've got a 128k cache card and it speeds up everything by quite a bit. >Probably has something to do with the built-in video getting sped up. I have a cache card in my IICX :) ok, so it's an Diimo accellerator with cache on it on an adaptor :) but it speeds everything WAY up... 50 Mhz 030 :) ------------------------------ Message: 32 Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2003 14:07:33 -0700 From: Marvin Johnston Subject: Posting times To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Message-ID: <3F81D995.9FB4C6DF@rain.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Anyone else seeing extended times (< 15 minutes or so) before their posts get to the list? Kind of annoying to post something and not see it pop up on the list within a relatively short time!!! ------------------------------ Message: 33 Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 22:31:41 +0100 (BST) From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Subject: Re: Betr.: Acorn Econet To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1515 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20031006/6abf51aa/att achment-0001.ksh ------------------------------ Message: 34 Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 15:08:18 -0700 From: "John A. Dundas III" Subject: GE 73 bulbs for RL02 To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Can anyone recommend a good source for the GE 73 bulbs used in the front panel switches of the RL02? A web search turned up Atlanta Light Bulbs. They claim to have them for $0.99/ea, minimum quantity 10. However when you try to check out, the minimum $ order is ~$30. I don't mind buying 10, but 30 is too many and I'm not really short on other bulbs at this time. Any suggestions? Thanks, John ------------------------------ Message: 35 Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 18:10:18 -0400 (EDT) From: John Lawson Subject: VCF Want: Pertec formatters for Kennedy 9100 To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII As message header states: I'm looking for one or two Pertec formatter cards for Kennedy 91xx series tape drives - with cables, if possible. Have $$$ for same - will be at VCF looking to trade $ for Stuff. Also, I'm looking for 2 or 3 DEC RL02 drives, one at least in good working shape - with an interconnect cable and terminator. Can pick up in Bay Area.... Cheerz John ------------------------------ Message: 36 Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 15:21:49 -0700 From: Al Kossow Subject: Re: VCF Want: Pertec formatters for Kennedy 9100 To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Message-ID: <200310062221.h96MLnbh015108@spies.com> > I'm looking for one or two Pertec formatter > cards for Kennedy 91xx series tape drives - with cables, if possible. 91xx formatters are separate rack mounted boxes (9219) www.spies.com/aek/pdf/kennedy/006-0002-01_9219_formatter.pdf is the manual for the 9219 If you are using these on DEC systems, you may have better luck finding embedded Unibus or Qbus formatters made by Emulex, Plessey, Dilog, etc. ------------------------------ Message: 37 Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 15:23:37 -0700 From: "Patrick Rigney" Subject: SemiDisk Solid State Disk Emulator To: Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Does anyone have a PDF scan of the manual for a SemiDisk solid-state disk emulator? Please contact me if you do... --Patrick ------------------------------ Message: 38 Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 18:24:23 -0400 From: Ian Primus Subject: Re: Help! need 400k/800k Mac os 6 or 7 diskettes! To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed IIRC, you could no longer use 400k disks as of System 7.6, but you can still use 800k disks up through System 9, provided of course that you have a Mac with an internal floppy drive. The external USB drives are, for the most part, PC clone laptop style drives, and therefore can not read or write the GCR disks. But, you _can_ write 400k floppies on System 7.6 and up with Disk Copy. You can't mount the image, and you can't mount the disk you created, but it does work. Once again, you have to have a Mac with an internal floppy drive. Why Apple stopped offering floppy drives, I don't know. I know that the first peripheral I bought for my G4 was a floppy drive, and I still hate the fact that it's slow as hell, and doesn't have auto eject. Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com On Monday, October 6, 2003, at 04:39 PM, chris wrote: >>> Apple stopped having the drives read and write 400 and 800 k disks a >>> while ago. >> >> Actually the System does that... I don't remember when though. > > Well, yes, I didn't mean to imply that it was a drive limit. Just that > Apple stopped letting a user read and write 400 and 800 K disks a while > ago (I believe you are right and it was OS 8, but I'm not postive). > > -chris > > ------------------------------ Message: 39 Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 15:56:36 -0700 From: Al Kossow Subject: Re: Posting times To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Message-ID: <200310062256.h96Mua2p019520@spies.com> Anyone else seeing extended times (< 15 minutes or so) before their posts get to the list? -- I'm more concerned that the archive sort by date isn't corrected for local time zone. Since the sort by thread doesn't always work right, I just watch the list from the archive, but now the replies can show up in the list before the original question, depending on when the original message was posted. ------------------------------ Message: 40 Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2003 19:05:02 -0400 From: Bob Shannon Subject: Re: black paper tape = mylar? To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Message-ID: <3F81F51E.1060507@tiac.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Mylar paper tape has never come in black, as far as I know. Black paper tape was sold for use with photoelectric paper tape readers like HP's, which work, sometimes with yellow paper (until any oil get on the tape anyway). But the black stuff makes even a sloppy optical reader work great, and it does not kill the edges on your punch like Mylar will do. Jay West wrote: >I was wanting to get some mylar paper tape. There is an auction on Ebay for >6 rolls of "black paper tape"... can one generally assume that black paper >tape is mylar and not just paper? > >The URL is http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2562042672 > >Can anyone advise if this is likely to be mylar or not? > >Regards, > >Jay West > >--- >[This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > > ------------------------------ Message: 41 Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 00:29:54 -0400 From: "Andrew Strouse" Subject: Re: Fat (512K) Mac Revival? To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Message-ID: <000201c38c5e$c068e460$7d444a43@amscomputer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" There doesn't seem to be any battery in the back at all. Where do I go about getting one of those? I haven't cracked the unit open yet but I will and check the power supply. Andrew Strouse ( kittstr@access-4-free.com ) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Al Hartman" To: Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2003 1:09 PM Subject: Re: Fat (512K) Mac Revival? > It could be something as simple as a bad PRAM battery. > There's a little door in the upper back, that has a > battery in it. > > Open it and see if there's a battery in there. If it > hasn't exploded... You probably can try replacing that > as a start. > > Next would be the Power Supply/Analog board. > > But, yes... You should be able to buy a replacement > cheaper than fixing that unit. Though, you might find > buyers for the parts to help fund that. > > Regards, > Al Hartman > > > > From: "Andrew Strouse" > > > > The recent discussion about reviving a Mac SE/30 > > reminded me that I have a "fat mac" in my closet > > collecting dust. I found it after a yard sale a > > few years ago. ( I like to go late and see what > > finds I can get for nothing because the people just > > want the stuff out of their house.) I remember > > when I plugged it in, nothing happened. No sounds, > > lights, bars, patterns, sad/happy macs, etc. Does > > anyone have any suggestions of what to do to > > attempt to get it running. Is it worth it? (I'd > > like to play with it but could I find another one > > that works for less than it will take to fix?) > > It came with a large box of disks, and external > > drive, mouse and keyboard, so it seemed like a > > complete system, except that it doesn't work. > > > > Thanks in advance. > > > > Andrew Strouse > >( kittstr@access-4-free.com ) > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search > http://shopping.yahoo.com > ------------------------------ Message: 42 Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 19:11:46 -0400 From: chris Subject: Re: Help! need 400k/800k Mac os 6 or 7 diskettes! To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts " Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" >IIRC, you could no longer use 400k disks as of System 7.6, but you can >still use 800k disks up through System 9, provided of course that you >have a Mac with an internal floppy drive. I can't reliably read or write 800K disks in my PM 6500 with OS 9.0.4. Haven't been able to for a few OS versions. Also can't in my PM 9600. It attempts it, and is sometimes works for reading an 800K disk. It can also on occasion write to 800K disks, but it can never format them. It will attempt a format, it will even complete it without complaint... but the disk will be undreadable in machines running older OS versions. If I format in an older machine, I can then get a few writes to the disk before the data is unreadable in an older machine (and if the disk is freshly formatted, then I can usually get one or two reads as well). So based on personal experience, I just chalk it up that Apple stopped letting you do both 400 and 800 (with 400 being right out) >Why Apple stopped >offering floppy drives, I don't know. Cost cutting. They were trying to get the iMac down to as cheap a build as possible, and they knew that most consumers would have little need for a floppy drive in the long run. So it was a place to shave a few bucks off the manufacturing costs. Alas when they choose to do it, it was still a tad premature, as yes, in the LONG run, most consumers wouldn't need a floppy drive... but until they migrated their entire collection of old disks to something else, then they still needed it (but its a typical catch-22... if Apple left the drive in, no consumer would migrate their stuff in anticipation for the removal of the drive, so the consumer wasn't going to stop needing the drive, until right after the drive was no longer there) -chris End of cctalk Digest, Vol 2, Issue 10 ************************************* From djg at pdp8online.com Mon Oct 6 20:51:16 2003 From: djg at pdp8online.com (David Gesswein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:23 2005 Subject: ASR33 Teletype interfacing Message-ID: <200310070151.h971pGN12743@user-119apiu.biz.mindspring.com> From: Ian Primus >One problem is that I don't know >what the Teletype is _supposed_ to do. I have never seen one >operational > Did you see my teletype page? It has movies of an operating teletype http://www.pdp8.net/asr33/asr33.shtml Not too different than operation in local mode. >I have been attempting to get my ASR33 teletype connected to something >and communicating, but so far I have not been successful. I have built >the interface here : >http://www.daedalus.co.nz/~don/computing/20mahack.html > It looks pretty marginal, a lot of serial ports aren't going to have the drive. I made a converter with optoisolators & rs-232 chips etc which is a lot more complex than needed and also was a little strange since I made it before I got that degree. If nobody has pointed you to a better one I can scan my schematic, >15 years ago radio shack had the parts. David Gesswein http://www.pdp8.net/ -- Run an old computer with blinkenlights Have any PDP-8 stuff you're willing to part with? From ken at fraserhouse.com Mon Oct 6 21:47:28 2003 From: ken at fraserhouse.com (Ken Campbell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:23 2005 Subject: Looking for Overland OD3201 Tape unit Message-ID: <2D878B3472AA1F9690F400FC@ip115-170.ott.istop.com> Trying to find an Overland Data, Inc. OD3201 9-track reel-to-reel unit. It is a reasonably thin, grey unit that stands vertically and has a plexiglas window built in the door. Please reply directly to ken@fraserhouse.com including condition and price. Thanks, Ken Campbell From philip at awale.qc.ca Mon Oct 6 22:33:39 2003 From: philip at awale.qc.ca (philip@awale.qc.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:23 2005 Subject: Mac SE/30 revival In-Reply-To: <21791196-F5FD-11D7-91F9-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> Message-ID: d On 03-Oct-2003 Ian Primus wrote: > the only disadvantage is that you don't have a great deal of leverage > with a pencil... I actually used a variation on the design : I put the torx hex bit in one end of the pen body (which could be any roundish, soft plastic pen body) and a hex/hex bit at the other end (gender changer?), then a hex extender and finaly my hex screwdriver. More then enough leverage. -Philip From ken at fraserhouse.com Tue Oct 7 08:16:20 2003 From: ken at fraserhouse.com (Ken Campbell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:23 2005 Subject: Looking for Overland OD3201 Tape unit Message-ID: <2D881E9672AA845C7F45062E@ip115-170.ott.istop.com> Trying to find an Overland Data, Inc. OD3201 9-track reel-to-reel unit. It is a reasonably thin, grey unit that stands vertically and has a plexiglas window built in the door. Please reply directly to ken@fraserhouse.com including condition and price. Thanks, Ken Campbell From peter.mccollum at hp.com Tue Oct 7 11:50:56 2003 From: peter.mccollum at hp.com (McCollum, Peter) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:23 2005 Subject: DEC Pro 380 Info Request Message-ID: <9B832BEB407A774AA0520CCFC2322197046700FA@cxoexc11.americas.cpqcorp.net> On an LK201 keyboard, "Resume" is in the top row (like an "F" key on a PC kybd), 7th from the left. Pete -----Original Message----- From: Charles H. Dickman [mailto:chd_1@nktelco.net] Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2003 10:43 AM To: info-pdp11; cctech@classiccmp.org Subject: DEC Pro 380 Info Request I now have a DEC Professional 380 that was originally a VAX Console. Inspecting it, I find a floppy interface, a Winchester interface, and an RTI interface (used for the VAX I think). The disk is an RD52 with a big piece of red tape that says TOP SECRET. I have lots of questions.... After looking for pinouts, I have attached a NEC Multisync 3D monitor and an LK201 keyboard to the VIDEO 1 port. During the self test I get an error saying a key is stuck on the keyboard. This may indeed be true, I have not tested the keyboard before. It also says hit to continue. The keyboard has no key. I suspect there were various markings for the keycaps. Any suggestion on which key might be ? What are the monochrome monitor specifications (horizontal frequency, vertical frequency, etc)? It looks like the NEC 3D can barely get the correct sync. This monitor is a bit old and when it warms up it loses sync. Not sure if this is a problem with the monitor, or I am just stretching its specs too much. A NEC XV17 I tried would not even begin to sync. I read that the printer port is also a console for the Pro. After finding the pinouts, I connected a terminal to the port and a break dropped me into ODT. Is there microPDP-11/83 style firmware in there somewhere that I can use on the PR 1 port or do I have to use the keyboard and video? Using ODT, I can see that there are 512kB of memory. The RTI seems interesting, but I have not seen any pinouts for the 62 pin connector. From what I can find there are two serial ports, a 24 line bi-directional I/O port and an IEEE-488 port. Pretty cool, but useless without a pinout... -chuck ---------- To unsubscribe (or subscribe) from (to) this list, send a message to info-pdp11-request@village.org, with the first line of the message body being "unsubscribe" or "subscribe", respectively (without the quotes). From ken at fraserhouse.com Tue Oct 7 12:12:54 2003 From: ken at fraserhouse.com (Ken Campbell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:23 2005 Subject: Looking for Overland OD3201 Tape unit Message-ID: <2D88560572AA47D224EB063B@ip115-170.ott.istop.com> Trying to find an Overland Data, Inc. OD3201 (or similar) 9-track reel-to-reel unit. It is a reasonably thin, grey unit that stands vertically and has a plexiglas window built in the door. Please reply directly to ken@fraserhouse.com including condition and price. Thanks, Ken Campbell From ken at fraserhouse.com Tue Oct 7 15:26:58 2003 From: ken at fraserhouse.com (Ken Campbell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:23 2005 Subject: Looking for Overland OD3201 Tape unit Message-ID: <2D88837B72AAE58A2A9B064B@ip115-170.ott.istop.com> Trying to find an Overland Data, Inc. OD3201 (or similar model) 9-track reel-to-reel unit. It is a reasonably thin, grey unit that stands vertically and has a plexiglas window built in the door. Please reply directly to ken@fraserhouse.com including condition and price. Thanks, Ken Campbell From bear at typewritten.org Tue Oct 7 19:00:58 2003 From: bear at typewritten.org (r.stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:23 2005 Subject: EISA config for Everex STEP DP In-Reply-To: <20031006080400.GA19314@svs.inside.caravan.ru> Message-ID: <7F045D0C-F922-11D7-B71D-000A956C4CA0@typewritten.org> carroll bloyd On Monday, October 6, 2003, at 01:04 AM, Sergey Svishchev wrote: > You posted a request for !EVX0101.CFG on classiccmp. Unfortunately, I > don't have one; I'm looking for !EVX0002.CFG myself. I actually received a copy of the ECU disk I was looking for from Carroll Bloyd, a few days after I submitted my plea. I just checked the disk, and while there are a number of additional Everex EISA .CFG files on the disk (including !EVX0001.CFG), the one you're looking for isn't. I'll keep my eyes open and let you know if I stumble across it. ok bear From geoff at pkworks.com Tue Oct 7 22:11:57 2003 From: geoff at pkworks.com (Geoffrey G. Rochat) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:23 2005 Subject: Fw: thought you might want to respond Message-ID: <002a01c38d49$efc06bc0$ad6ff4d0@Administrator> Oh yes, the RetroComputing Society of Rhode Island is still very much in business (www.osfn.org/rcs). {As is the Rhode Island Computer Museum (www.osfn.org/ricm).} I don't know why you couldn't get through by e-mail, other than the fact that "Shrimp", the RCS/RI's faithful Sun server, has its good days and its bad days, and it's anyone's bet what today is. And I don't know whether the phone is still there or not, but unless it's a monthly Open House it's a crap shoot as to whether anyone's on-premises to pick it up. I for one don't subscribe to Classic Comp, so this was kindly forwarded to me by Marc Bileau, who is very active in the RCS/RI's activities. He tells me that even non-subscribers can send to cctalk, so here I am. Please respond to me directly, not to the mailing list. So, just what is this item up for auction? I doubt we're bidding on it in any case, as money is a bit tight all around right now. But if it's good we'd be delighted to receive a donation. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2003 9:52 PM > Subject: thought you might want to respond > > > > I don't know if you read the classic comp mailing list, so I'm sending > this > > anyway. I know Mike doesn't always answer emails in real time :-} > > > > Marc > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 21 > > Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 12:47:07 -0700 (PDT) > > From: "O. Sharp" > > Subject: RCS/RI Still In Existence? > > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > > > > > > Does anybody know if the Retrocomputing Society of Rhode Island > > (http://osfn.org/rcs/) is still around? I've sent a couple of e-mails > > their way, and tried their phone number, but not with any luck. > > > > I saw one of the things on their online "wish-list" up for auction on > > eBay, and thought about having a go at getting it for them, but it'd be > > nice to know if they still needed it first. (Not to mention making sure I > > wasn't bidding _against_ them. ) > > > > -O.- > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > Send cctalk mailing list submissions to > > cctalk@classiccmp.org > > > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > > http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctalk > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > > cctalk-request@classiccmp.org > > > > You can reach the person managing the list at > > cctalk-owner@classiccmp.org > > > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > > than "Re: Contents of cctalk digest..." > > > > > > > > > From ken at fraserhouse.com Tue Oct 7 23:39:19 2003 From: ken at fraserhouse.com (Ken Campbell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:23 2005 Subject: Looking for Overland OD3201 Tape unit Message-ID: <2D88F6DF72AAB51F74D00660@ip115-170.ott.istop.com> Trying to find an Overland Data, Inc. OD3201 (or similar model) 9-track reel-to-reel unit. It is a reasonably thin, grey unit that stands vertically and has a plexiglas window built in the door. Please reply directly to ken@fraserhouse.com including condition and price. Thanks, Ken Campbell From ken at fraserhouse.com Tue Oct 7 23:39:25 2003 From: ken at fraserhouse.com (Ken Campbell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:23 2005 Subject: Looking for Overland OD3201 Tape unit Message-ID: <2D88F6E572AA9C0E837F0661@ip115-170.ott.istop.com> Trying to find an Overland Data, Inc. OD3201 (or similar) 9-track reel-to-reel unit. It is a reasonably thin, grey unit that stands vertically and has a plexiglas window built in the door. Please reply directly to ken@fraserhouse.com including condition and price. Thanks, Ken Campbell From rcabunac at wi.rr.com Wed Oct 8 08:46:50 2003 From: rcabunac at wi.rr.com (Randy Cabunac) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:23 2005 Subject: 386 Mother Board Message-ID: <001d01c38da2$a033e600$34112f92@pcrcwur863d> Chris, Do you still have this motherboard? AMD 386 SX-40, AMI Bios, "Cyclone" chipset?, 6- 16 bit ISA slots, 4- 30 pin SIMM slots. This board is smaller than normal boards. It measures 8.5 x 6.75 inches. Let me know. Also check the side of of of the ISA slots to see if it has a sticker with this number. PTA-3B067196 Thanks, Randy From electro_vulture at yahoo.com Wed Oct 8 08:52:16 2003 From: electro_vulture at yahoo.com (Corey McKay) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:23 2005 Subject: Compaq Portables Message-ID: <20031008135216.48395.qmail@web14908.mail.yahoo.com> Are you still giving those away? I'm in Florida. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com From mwb at ovay.com Wed Oct 8 12:27:50 2003 From: mwb at ovay.com (mwb@ovay.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:23 2005 Subject: Retro Computing Society of RI Message-ID: <1065634070.3f8449167cf58@ovay.com> I'm fowarding this from Geoffrey Rochat of the RCS/RI, confirming that they do, in fact, still exist. Oh yes, the RetroComputing Society of Rhode Island is still very much in business (www.osfn.org/rcs). {As is the Rhode Island Computer Museum (www.osfn.org/ricm).} I don't know why you couldn't get through by e-mail, other than the fact that "Shrimp", the RCS/RI's faithful Sun server, has its good days and its bad days, and it's anyone's bet what today is. And I don't know whether the phone is still there or not, but unless it's a monthly Open House it's a crap shoot as to whether anyone's on-premises to pick it up. I for one don't subscribe to Classic Comp, having dropped it after having watched a particularly ferocious case of flaming break out, so this was kindly forwarded to me by Marc Bileau, who is very active in the RCS/RI's activities. So, just what is this item up for auction? I doubt we're bidding on it in any case, as money is a bit tight all around right now. But if it's good we'd be delighted to receive a donation. > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 21 > Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 12:47:07 -0700 (PDT) > From: "O. Sharp" > Subject: RCS/RI Still In Existence? > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Message-ID: > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > > > Does anybody know if the Retrocomputing Society of Rhode Island > (http://osfn.org/rcs/) is still around? I've sent a couple of e-mails > their way, and tried their phone number, but not with any luck. > > I saw one of the things on their online "wish-list" up for auction on > eBay, and thought about having a go at getting it for them, but it'd be > nice to know if they still needed it first. (Not to mention making sure I > wasn't bidding _against_ them. ) > > -O.- > > > ------------------------------ > > > From gambettaj2 at UofS.edu Wed Oct 8 21:25:50 2003 From: gambettaj2 at UofS.edu (Jamie Gambetta) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:23 2005 Subject: ibm pc at technical reference Message-ID: <1baa4e1b9ccc.1b9ccc1baa4e@asteroid.scranton.edu> Hello, I read a post you wrote on February 23rd, about the IBM pc/at technical reference, and was wondering if you still had your copy of it. When I called, according to IBM, the manual doesn't exist. Is there any way I can purchase a copy of it from you? If so, please contact me asap, as I am going crazy trying to find a copy of this book. If not, thank you anyway. Thank you for your help and time, Jay From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Thu Oct 9 00:48:14 2003 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:23 2005 Subject: Update: VAXen available. Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.2.20031008224534.02e43af8@66.125.189.29> I talked with the folks at BDI and these lots aren't going to be part of this week's auction after all (they had a lot of stuff queued up) they assure me that next week (closing on 19th of October) the lots will be available. Next week I will follow up with the exact lot numbers for those of you who were discouraged by the extremely difficult to navigate mechanics of their site. --Chuck --------------------- Previous Email ... A number of VAXen are available this week from www.auctionbdi.com. I gave them all of my "spares machines" which I cannot store and no one in the Bay Area wanted. The good news is that BDI will ship them to you pretty much anywhere in the country and the minimum bid is $25. The lot to look for has 3 MV3400's (in BA213 cases), one VAX 4000/300 (in a BA440 case) and one MicroVAX II in a pedastal BA23 case. I don't recall how complete they are, I do thing the 4000/300 is complete except for some DSSI plugs which I needed to bring my 3800 on line. Two of the 3400's have the front "door" (one says MicroVAX 3400, one says VAXServer 3400). If you've got a 3400 or 4000/300 there are plenty of parts to "enhance" your system. I believe the 4000/300 has 192MB of memory but can't swear to it) There is also a MicroVAX 3600 in a H9644 rack. This one I've never looked at in depth other than to note that it has a 4 SCSI drives and a tape but a gap where the SCSI controller had been. Given that it couldn't talk to the disks I pretty much ignored it. Finally there are some PC parts with a nice 17" NEC 5fg monitor (including the special NEC VGA cable). The monitor is nice but not an "Energy Saver" (it stays on as long as power is applied, no standby mode) Probably not of interest to this crowd but I thought I would mention it. --Chuck From wh.sudbrink at verizon.net Thu Oct 9 08:46:25 2003 From: wh.sudbrink at verizon.net (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:23 2005 Subject: cctalk Digest, Vol 2, Issue 13 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >> > Ok , you leave her there. I'll carry her to the bedroom. :) >> >> Bedroom? Wheres your sense of adventure? ;) > >"A Real Retroist(tm) does it... on top of a VAX 11/7x0 !" .. I've always wondered if anyone has "done it" on the couch/bench around the classic column styled Cray. From cb at mythtech.net Thu Oct 9 08:47:17 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:23 2005 Subject: Mac SE/30 revived! woot! Message-ID: >> I may have an old SE/30 ethernet card... > > >Also, I believe that I'll need some sort of riser? The cut-out on the >case is 2 inches above where the motherboard is... No, the SE/30 Ethernet card is a two part card. One part plugs into the mobo's PDS slot, then there is a ribbon cable that connects it to the 2nd part which screws into the slot casing for external access. So no riser card as the ribbon cable spans the distance. -chris From chejmw at acsu.buffalo.edu Thu Oct 9 09:07:51 2003 From: chejmw at acsu.buffalo.edu (James M. Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:23 2005 Subject: ASR33 Teletype interfacing References: <200310070151.h971pGN12743@user-119apiu.biz.mindspring.com> Message-ID: <00a201c38e6e$ba39c200$317ecd80@chem.buffalo.edu> Hello, as for the "Line or Local" issue, you stated that the local side worked fine. As in when you type on the keys it prints what you type. A rather simple test is to take a "fresh" 9 volt battery, find the two "RX lines and connect them to the battery, with the TTY in line mode the basket should quiet, if it does, then connect the keyboard leads between one side of the battery and the "RX" line and try typing again. If that works then your interface is lacking in the ability to provide the 20/60 MA required by the TTY. Jim WB2FCN ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Gesswein" To: Sent: Monday, October 06, 2003 9:51 PM Subject: Re: ASR33 Teletype interfacing > From: Ian Primus > >One problem is that I don't know > >what the Teletype is _supposed_ to do. I have never seen one > >operational > > > Did you see my teletype page? It has movies of an operating teletype > http://www.pdp8.net/asr33/asr33.shtml Not too different than operation > in local mode. > > >I have been attempting to get my ASR33 teletype connected to something > >and communicating, but so far I have not been successful. I have built > >the interface here : > >http://www.daedalus.co.nz/~don/computing/20mahack.html > > > It looks pretty marginal, a lot of serial ports aren't going to have the > drive. I made a converter with optoisolators & rs-232 chips etc > which is a lot more complex than needed and also was a little strange since I > made it before I got that degree. If nobody has pointed you to a better one > I can scan my schematic, >15 years ago radio shack had the parts. > > David Gesswein > http://www.pdp8.net/ -- Run an old computer with blinkenlights > Have any PDP-8 stuff you're willing to part with? > > From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Thu Oct 9 09:19:41 2003 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:23 2005 Subject: GE 73 bulbs for RL02 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200310090719410983.092C2CB0@192.168.42.129> Try www.bulbman.com. They have just about everything. I once found a really exotic neon lamp for a 1950's VTVM from them at a pretty reasonable price. Good hunting. *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 06-Oct-03 at 15:08 John A. Dundas III wrote: >Can anyone recommend a good source for the GE 73 bulbs used in the front >panel switches of the RL02? > >A web search turned up Atlanta Light Bulbs. They claim to have them for >$0.99/ea, minimum quantity 10. However when you try to check out, the >minimum $ order is ~$30. > >I don't mind buying 10, but 30 is too many and I'm not really short on >other bulbs at this time. Any suggestions? > >Thanks, > >John -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com ARS KC7GR (Formerly WD6EOS) since 12-77 -- kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com "Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati" (Red Green, aka Steve Smith) From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Thu Oct 9 09:41:16 2003 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:23 2005 Subject: Looking for Overland OD3201 Tape unit In-Reply-To: <2D88837B72AAE58A2A9B064B@ip115-170.ott.istop.com> References: <2D88837B72AAE58A2A9B064B@ip115-170.ott.istop.com> Message-ID: <200310090741160237.093FEC7A@192.168.42.129> Posting the same note every five minutes to a semi-private mailing list is going to serve no other purpose than to get people ticked off at you (if they're not already, considering your last three posts). Please stop. We got the message the first time. If no one has replied to you, it means that no one has what you're looking for. *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 07-Oct-03 at 16:26 Ken Campbell wrote: >Trying to find an Overland Data, Inc. OD3201 (or similar model) >9-track reel-to-reel unit. It is a reasonably thin, >grey unit that stands vertically and has a plexiglas >window built in the door. > >Please reply directly to ken@fraserhouse.com >including condition and price. > >Thanks, > >Ken Campbell -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com ARS KC7GR (Formerly WD6EOS) since 12-77 -- kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com "Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati" (Red Green, aka Steve Smith) From nico at farumdata.dk Thu Oct 9 10:05:12 2003 From: nico at farumdata.dk (Nico de Jong) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:23 2005 Subject: Looking for Overland OD3201 Tape unit References: <2D88837B72AAE58A2A9B064B@ip115-170.ott.istop.com> Message-ID: <000d01c38e76$bdc38b60$2101a8c0@farumdata.dk> How many do you need ? I've seen the same message 4 times within 10 minutes Nico ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken Campbell" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2003 10:26 PM Subject: Looking for Overland OD3201 Tape unit > > Trying to find an Overland Data, Inc. OD3201 (or similar model) > 9-track reel-to-reel unit. It is a reasonably thin, > grey unit that stands vertically and has a plexiglas > window built in the door. > > Please reply directly to ken@fraserhouse.com > including condition and price. > > Thanks, > > Ken Campbell > > > From vcf at siconic.com Thu Oct 9 10:37:18 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:23 2005 Subject: cctalk Digest, Vol 2, Issue 13 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 9 Oct 2003, Tothwolf wrote: > On Wed, 8 Oct 2003, ben franchuk wrote: > > Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > > On Wed, 8 Oct 2003, John Allain wrote: > > > > > > > 140 pounds is the heaviest thing I've carried (metal). It's not > > > > clear if a maleable thing would be easier to carry, with its > > > > movable center of gravity. I need a test subject, preferrably > > > > female. > > > > > > It's really easy when you're carrying her to the bedroom. > > > > > > OH MY GAWD! WHAT AM I SAYING? > > > > Ok , you leave her there. I'll carry her to the bedroom. :) > > Bedroom? Wheres your sense of adventure? ;) You know, come to think of it, I haven't tried my VAX 8600 yet. Hmmmm..... -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Thu Oct 9 10:38:03 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:23 2005 Subject: cctalk Digest, Vol 2, Issue 13 In-Reply-To: <000c01c38e32$68a8ae60$2101a8c0@farumdata.dk> Message-ID: On Thu, 9 Oct 2003, Nico de Jong wrote: > From: "Fred N. van Kempen" > > > Bedroom? Wheres your sense of adventure? ;) > > > > "A Real Retroist(tm) does it... on top of a VAX 11/7x0 !" .. > > > Yes, but "real programmers" like me :-) do IT bit by bit My hard disk is 8 terrabytes baby! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From korpela at ssl.berkeley.edu Thu Oct 9 10:36:28 2003 From: korpela at ssl.berkeley.edu (Eric J. Korpela) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:23 2005 Subject: Help! need 400k/800k Mac os 6 or 7 diskettes! In-Reply-To: from John Rollins at "Oct 6, 2003 12:10:09 pm" Message-ID: <200310091536.h99FaS104331@galileo.ssl.berkeley.edu> > >Apple stopped having the drives read and write 400 and 800 k disks a > >while ago. > > Actually the System does that... I don't remember when though. I > think it might have been System 8 that stopped reading 400k, I > remember because I was real mad about not being able to use my PM6500 > to do disks for my 128k, and then I ended up with an iMac and the > iDock doesn't work under X(until you pull the cable going to the ADB > and serial that is) but the USB floppy only handles 1.4MB anyway! Do older external 400k drives work with System 8? I find it hard to swing a dead cat without hitting a pile of external Mac (or Apple II) disk drives. Eric From waltje at pdp11.nl Thu Oct 9 10:45:44 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:23 2005 Subject: Accidental re-posts (fwd) Message-ID: Before poor Ken's kicked outta here, he already apologized: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2003 10:58:44 -0400 From: Ken Campbell To: Bruce Lane , Fred N. van Kempen Cc: cctech@classiccmp.org Subject: Accidental re-posts Sorry guys, thats was a muck up with my account. I was not intentionally trying to flood the mailing list with posts. I had only intended one post to show up. I was getting bounce messages from mailman, and everytime I went to the URL to cancel the message. For whatever reason, they were never cancelled. I retried several times over a couple days, and it appears that my list account was only activated today. Again, major apologies all around, but the 7 or 8 reposts now were _NOT_ intentional... Ken From kth at srv.net Thu Oct 9 11:52:39 2003 From: kth at srv.net (Kevin Handy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:23 2005 Subject: LK201 key stuck In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3F859257.7040008@srv.net> Tony Duell wrote: >We had a totally wrecked one at a place I was working, so we (the system >manager and I) took it apart one night. Cut off the heat stakes and >pulled the layers apart. Putting it back together proved impossible, >there simply wasn't enough plastic left to re-stake it. I would not >recomend taking one apart that you plan to re-use. > > You can sometimes build up the plastic using a "spin welding" technique. Take a chunk of plastic (a part tree from a plastic model usually works well), and put it into a drill chuck. With the drill running moderately fast (goggles are definitely recommended), press it against the spot you want to weld it. Friction will melt the two together. Success depends on how well the two plastics will bond together. Some plastics will not bond well together. From cb at mythtech.net Thu Oct 9 11:29:58 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:23 2005 Subject: 386 Mother Board Message-ID: >Do you still have this motherboard? > AMD 386 SX-40, AMI Bios, "Cyclone" chipset?, 6- 16 bit ISA slots, 4- 30 Nope, long since gone. -chris From pat at purdueriots.com Thu Oct 9 11:31:50 2003 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:23 2005 Subject: Apple IIe KB IC (AY-3600) datasheet requested. Message-ID: <200310091131.50728.pat@purdueriots.com> Hi all, I'm looking for a datasheet for the AY-3600 that is used as a keyboard matrix encoder in Apple IIe's. I haven't had much luck finding it from my other sources yet. Thanks! Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ From ronbain at ix.netcom.com Thu Oct 9 11:33:27 2003 From: ronbain at ix.netcom.com (ronbain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:23 2005 Subject: HOW TO UNSUBSCRIBE In-Reply-To: <20031008135216.48395.qmail@web14908.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <008201c38e83$11c97060$2af9fea9@D4VMS431> What steps can I take to unsubscribe? -----Original Message----- From: cctech-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Corey McKay Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2003 6:52 AM To: cctech@classiccmp.org Subject: Compaq Portables Are you still giving those away? I'm in Florida. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com From jpl15 at panix.com Thu Oct 9 11:37:51 2003 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:23 2005 Subject: Scrapping Tape Drive Message-ID: I have a brand-new, fully functional Overland Data OD3201 tape drive that I'm going to gut for a few parts and then junk the carcass. Nobody wants these damn things, anyway.... Cheers John From pds3 at ix.netcom.com Thu Oct 9 10:28:17 2003 From: pds3 at ix.netcom.com (Shannon Hoskins) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:23 2005 Subject: VCF - Stuff for Sale References: Message-ID: <000e01c38e79$f7948a80$b82fa5d1@shannon> I would be interested in the DEC M series modules. Could you give me a few of the part numbers? Sincerely, Shannon Hoskins. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vintage Computer Festival" To: "Marvin Johnston" Cc: "ClassicCmp" Sent: Monday, October 06, 2003 6:11 PM Subject: Re: VCF - Stuff for Sale > On Mon, 6 Oct 2003, Marvin Johnston wrote: > > > Rather than post the stuff here, a link to the things I'll be selling at > > VCF is at: > > > > http://www.rain.org/~marvin/vcf.txt > > > > As the week goes by, I'll be adding to the list and updating it as > > necessary. > > Marvin, > > Please also post your list to the VCF BBS. There are a lot of VCF > attendees who don't read the list. In fact, a majority of attendees are > not CC list members. > > http://www.vintage.org/2003/main/bbs.php > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage mputers ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Thu Oct 9 12:14:09 2003 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:23 2005 Subject: cctalk Digest, Vol 2, Issue 13 References: Message-ID: <3F859761.4030409@jetnet.ab.ca> Bill Sudbrink wrote: >>>>Ok , you leave her there. I'll carry her to the bedroom. :) >>> >>>Bedroom? Wheres your sense of adventure? ;) >> >>"A Real Retroist(tm) does it... on top of a VAX 11/7x0 !" .. > > > I've always wondered if anyone has "done it" on the couch/bench > around the classic column styled Cray. Your free to buy one for the bedroom if you like. I don't think so myself since the hardware was running 24/7 and somebody was always around. I'll tell you what, you keep the vax , I'll take the cute punch card girls in the mini-skirts. PS ... you do have a bedroom with a bed, or do you just sleep under the big iron? Also I have been spending my meager income on hi-fi big iron, a vintage vacuum tube amp at the moment, so I don't expect to be getting a vintage computer in my life. I'd like to build a vintage style machine but I still need to design the sucker. Modern machines may be 'user friendly' but not friendly to the users like the small 12 and 16 bit machines of days gone by. Ben. From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Thu Oct 9 12:35:51 2003 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:23 2005 Subject: ibm pc at technical reference In-Reply-To: <1baa4e1b9ccc.1b9ccc1baa4e@asteroid.scranton.edu> References: <1baa4e1b9ccc.1b9ccc1baa4e@asteroid.scranton.edu> Message-ID: <200310091035510386.09DFC2FE@192.168.42.129> My TechRef is buried somewhere at the moment, but I found this link... http://www.techfest.com/hardware/bus/isa.htm ...That contains much of the same info. Hope it helps... *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 08-Oct-03 at 22:25 Jamie Gambetta wrote: >Hello, > >I read a post you wrote on February 23rd, about the IBM pc/at technical >reference, and was wondering if you still had your copy of it. When I >called, according to IBM, the manual doesn't exist. Is there any way I can >purchase a copy of it from you? If so, please contact me asap, as I am >going crazy trying to find a copy of this book. If not, thank you anyway. > >Thank you for your help and time, > >Jay -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com ARS KC7GR (Formerly WD6EOS) since 12-77 -- kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com "Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati" (Red Green, aka Steve Smith) From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Oct 9 13:21:44 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:23 2005 Subject: Googlers In-Reply-To: <200310090719410983.092C2CB0@192.168.42.129> References: <200310090719410983.092C2CB0@192.168.42.129> Message-ID: <20031009111425.L29966@newshell.lmi.net> There were another handful today of the "do you still have ..." posts. People who end up in the archives during a search for something do not seem to be aware that they are posting to a list. And some seem to be unaware that the archive messages are not current. I do NOT believe that they are spammers trolling for addresses, nor any other nefarious purpose. They seem to be just hapless folk without a clue. Sometimes, they legitimately need help, and somebody here might be able to. Sometimes, they even might have something great to part with. Therefore, we should NOT block those posts. But would it be feasable to have the mailing list software automatically put a "non-member submission" addition in their subject line? "[NMS]" If nothing else it would save a little time and confusion when trying to connect what it is about. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Oct 9 13:32:48 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:23 2005 Subject: Looking for Overland OD3201 Tape unit In-Reply-To: <000d01c38e76$bdc38b60$2101a8c0@farumdata.dk> References: <2D88837B72AAE58A2A9B064B@ip115-170.ott.istop.com> <000d01c38e76$bdc38b60$2101a8c0@farumdata.dk> Message-ID: <20031009113106.V29966@newshell.lmi.net> Usually, it wouldn't be worth much. But if there have been half a dozen inquiries for them this morning, then it is obviously very much in demand, and the price should go up to reflect that! On Thu, 9 Oct 2003, Nico de Jong wrote: > How many do you need ? I've seen the same message 4 times within 10 minutes > Nico > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ken Campbell" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2003 10:26 PM > Subject: Looking for Overland OD3201 Tape unit > > > > > > Trying to find an Overland Data, Inc. OD3201 (or similar model) > > 9-track reel-to-reel unit. It is a reasonably thin, > > grey unit that stands vertically and has a plexiglas > > window built in the door. > > > > Please reply directly to ken@fraserhouse.com > > including condition and price. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Ken Campbell From esharpe at uswest.net Thu Oct 9 14:42:27 2003 From: esharpe at uswest.net (Ed Sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:23 2005 Subject: Data General Eclipse Give-Away References: Message-ID: <004401c38e9d$787a5a80$4291a8c0@aoldsl.net> what is this talk of Tucson? I was ready for a road trip! it says in the ad it is in San Carlo CA United States ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vintage Computer Festival" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2003 10:24 AM Subject: Re: Data General Eclipse Give-Away > On Wed, 8 Oct 2003, Patrick Rigney wrote: > > > Someone just posted a Data General Eclipse on the Vintage Computer > > Marketplace, as a give-away. > > > > http://marketplace.vintage.org/view.cfm?ad=220 > > It's apparently an S/20. More info is in the auction ad. If I had the > time I'd get it myself. > > > Also, check out Sellam's auction for the Commodore 64 prototype (serial > > number 6)... > > 19 (not 6 :) > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage mputers ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > > > From kd7bcy at teleport.com Thu Oct 9 13:52:20 2003 From: kd7bcy at teleport.com (John Rollins Jr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:23 2005 Subject: HP9k video and other questions Message-ID: <20914295.1065725540697.JavaMail.root@misspiggy.psp.pas.earthlink.net> Does anyone have a pinout for the video connector on an HP9000/425? Or a list of compatible monitors(doesn't seem to be VGA unless the whole thing is dead)? Lucky me, I went to Wacky Willy's yesterday and found an Apollo keyboiard and mouse and an HP-IL mouse! Another question that is a bit OT... Same WW visit I found a Fujitsu RA12 DSL modem. OK, it seems that it's for Verizon frame relays only, and I don't have a PS for it anyway. But trying to reverse engineer the thing I found a PS port pin labeled "PRW_GOOD". What does that mean? the rest of the unit wants +/-15v, 5v and 3.3v on various pins but it's probably going into a parts box, I'm just curious what it might be and what sort of signal it would be. -JR From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Thu Oct 9 13:25:21 2003 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:24 2005 Subject: cctalk Digest, Vol 2, Issue 13 In-Reply-To: ; from waltje@pdp11.nl on Thu, Oct 09, 2003 at 08:29:18 %z References: Message-ID: <20031009182521.GW350776@MrPomeroy2> On 2003.10.09 08:29 Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > "A Real Retroist(tm) does it... on top of a VAX 11/7x0 !" .. "A Real Retroist(tm) does it... _with_ a VAX 11/7x0 !" .. I can supply p0rn pix of someone (not me!) f... a MicroVAX. ;-) I think some of these pix are online on unixsex.org too. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From eric at brouhaha.com Thu Oct 9 14:43:06 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:24 2005 Subject: Help! need 400k/800k Mac os 6 or 7 diskettes! In-Reply-To: <200310091536.h99FaS104331@galileo.ssl.berkeley.edu> References: from John Rollins at "Oct6, 2003 12:10:09 pm" <200310091536.h99FaS104331@galileo.ssl.berkeley.edu> Message-ID: <32904.64.169.63.74.1065728586.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> "Eric J. Korpela" > Do older external 400k drives work with System 8? I find it hard to > swing a dead cat without hitting a pile of external Mac (or Apple II) > disk drives. Apple 400K external drives will not work with any Macs that have a newer processor than a 68000. They work on the original (128K) Mac, the 512K and 512Ke, the Plus, SE, and maybe the Classic. The drive requires a PWM motor control signal that later Macs do not provide. The 800K and Superdrive (FDHD) do not need this signal. Eric From cb at mythtech.net Thu Oct 9 14:46:04 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:24 2005 Subject: Help! need 400k/800k Mac os 6 or 7 diskettes! Message-ID: >Do older external 400k drives work with System 8? I doubt it. I'm pretty sure Apple removed support for 400K disks at the OS level starting with 8. Although I could be wrong. > I find it hard to >swing a dead cat without hitting a pile of external Mac (or Apple II) >disk drives. Are you sure they are 400k drives? The platinum colored ones that were pleantiful and worked with the mac and the IIgs are 800k drives. If you really find an old external beige 400k drive for the Mac, I'd love to have it. I have two that are dead and none that work. I'd like one for one of my 128 Macs. -chris From ohh at drizzle.com Thu Oct 9 15:12:04 2003 From: ohh at drizzle.com (O. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:24 2005 Subject: Retro Computing Society of RI In-Reply-To: <1065634070.3f8449167cf58@ovay.com> Message-ID: > I'm fowarding this from Geoffrey Rochat of the RCS/RI, confirming that they do, > in fact, still exist. > > Oh yes, the RetroComputing Society of Rhode Island is still very much in > business (www.osfn.org/rcs). {As is the Rhode Island Computer Museum > (www.osfn.org/ricm).} [....snipppp] Thanks very much! I've replied via e-mail, but this time to the e-mail addresses in your CC: rather than the RCS address I was having all the difficulties with. :) -O.- From esharpe at uswest.net Thu Oct 9 16:16:48 2003 From: esharpe at uswest.net (Ed Sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:24 2005 Subject: *****Ty Data word processor tapes need data read from.....HELP! Message-ID: <005e01c38eaa$a6e4c1a0$4291a8c0@aoldsl.net> Ty Data word processor tapes need data read from.....HELP! attempting to help someone out on this issue. they have the ty data tapes but alas no machine... google does noting much on this issue! Does anyone have a ty data machine or know he char set and format tapes are recorded in? thanks ed sharpe, archivist for smecc From esharpe at uswest.net Thu Oct 9 16:16:48 2003 From: esharpe at uswest.net (Ed Sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:24 2005 Subject: *****Ty Data word processor tapes need data read from.....HELP! Message-ID: <005e01c38eaa$a6e4c1a0$4291a8c0@aoldsl.net> Ty Data word processor tapes need data read from.....HELP! attempting to help someone out on this issue. they have the ty data tapes but alas no machine... google does noting much on this issue! Does anyone have a ty data machine or know he char set and format tapes are recorded in? thanks ed sharpe, archivist for smecc From marvin at rain.org Thu Oct 9 15:55:23 2003 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:24 2005 Subject: VCF - Stuff for Sale References: <000e01c38e79$f7948a80$b82fa5d1@shannon> Message-ID: <3F85CB3B.109BE838@rain.org> Hi Shannon, Below is a list I made up some time ago; it is not current. Some of the modules have sold, and I am keeping some. But it will give you an idea of what is there. There are also some other DEC Quad and Hex height boards, but I don't recall what they are. Thanks for checking! Marvin Shannon Hoskins wrote: > > I would be interested in the DEC M series modules. Could you give me a few > of the part numbers? Qty Number Description 1 - K731 - Source Module 1 - K732 - Slave Regulator 1 - M002 - 15 Loads, PDP-8/L 1 - M050 - 50 mA Indicator and Driver 1 - M100 - Bus Data Interface, Neg, PDP-8 Family 1 - M101 - Bus Data Interface, Pos, PDP-8 Family 1 - M107 - Device Selector, Pos, PDP-8 Family 1 - M108 - Flag Module, Pos, PDP-8 Family 4 - M111 - Inverter, PDP-8/L 3 - M112 - NOR Gate 3 - M121 - AND/NOR Gates 2 - M141 - NAND/OR Gates 4 - M203 - 8 R/S Flip-Flops 3 - M205 - General Purpose D-Type Flip-Flops 4 - M206 - Six D-Type Flip-Flops 1 - M207 - Six Single Input J-K Flip-Flops 1 - M233 - Disk Shift Reg 4 - M310 - Delay Line, 50 - 500 ns, PDP-8/L 1 - M404 - 2 MHz Crystal Clock 1 - M452 - Variable Clock, PDP-8/L 3 - M506 - Medium Speed Negative Input Converter, -3V to M-series levels 3 - M602 - Pulse Amplifier 3 - M623 - Bus Driver,Pos, 12 2-input, PDP-8 Family, PDP-8/L 2 - M624 - Bus Driver,Pos, 15 drivers, PDP-8 Family, PDP-8/L 2 - M633 - Negative Bus Driver, Neg, PDP-8 Family 7 - M650 - Negative Output,3 converters from K and M series levels to -3V 1 - M706 - Teletype Receiver, PDP-8/L 1 - M707 - Teletype Transmitter, PDP-8/L 1 - M906 - Cable Terminator, PDP-8/L 1 - W033 - Flat Mylar Cable Connector 1 - W979 - Double Height Protoboard From marvin at rain.org Thu Oct 9 16:01:28 2003 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:24 2005 Subject: VCF Stuff for Sale References: <1baa4e1b9ccc.1b9ccc1baa4e@asteroid.scranton.edu> <200310091035510386.09DFC2FE@192.168.42.129> Message-ID: <3F85CCA8.3372904D@rain.org> I've updated the list of "stuff" I'll be bringing a number of times. The URL is at: http://www.rain.org/~marvin/vcf.txt I'll be out of email contact starting tonight and won't be available until VCF on Saturday. If anyone wants anything from the list, let me know before 5:00pm PDT. Thanks. From zmerch at 30below.com Thu Oct 9 16:02:46 2003 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:24 2005 Subject: HOW TO UNSUBSCRIBE In-Reply-To: <008201c38e83$11c97060$2af9fea9@D4VMS431> References: <20031008135216.48395.qmail@web14908.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20031009170218.01ddded0@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that ronbain may have mentioned these words: >What steps can I take to unsubscribe? Look at the message headers: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , HTH, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers zmerch@30below.com What do you do when Life gives you lemons, and you don't *like* lemonade????????????? From patrick at evocative.com Thu Oct 9 16:53:56 2003 From: patrick at evocative.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:24 2005 Subject: Data General Eclipse Give-Away In-Reply-To: <004401c38e9d$787a5a80$4291a8c0@aoldsl.net> Message-ID: "my mother would like it out of her garage in Tucson, Arizona" Ed, I think the seller is in San Carlos, but the unit is in Tucson. --Patrick > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Ed Sharpe > Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2003 12:42 PM > To: General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only > Subject: Re: Data General Eclipse Give-Away > > > what is this talk of Tucson? I was ready for a road trip! > > it says in the ad it is in San Carlo CA United States > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Vintage Computer Festival" > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2003 10:24 AM > Subject: Re: Data General Eclipse Give-Away > > > > On Wed, 8 Oct 2003, Patrick Rigney wrote: > > > > > Someone just posted a Data General Eclipse on the Vintage Computer > > > Marketplace, as a give-away. > > > > > > http://marketplace.vintage.org/view.cfm?ad=220 > > > > It's apparently an S/20. More info is in the auction ad. If I had the > > time I'd get it myself. > > > > > Also, check out Sellam's auction for the Commodore 64 > prototype (serial > > > number 6)... > > > > 19 (not 6 :) > > > > -- > > > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer > Festival > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage > mputers ] > > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at > http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > > > > > > > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Oct 9 16:40:17 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:24 2005 Subject: anyone notice this gorgeous piece? In-Reply-To: <002b01c38da1$4c845d60$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> from "John Allain" at Oct 8, 3 09:37:20 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 159 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20031009/8547e025/attachment.ksh From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Thu Oct 9 16:43:44 2003 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:24 2005 Subject: HP9k video and other questions In-Reply-To: <20914295.1065725540697.JavaMail.root@misspiggy.psp.pas.earthlink.net>; from kd7bcy@teleport.com on Thu, Oct 09, 2003 at 20:52:20 %z References: <20914295.1065725540697.JavaMail.root@misspiggy.psp.pas.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <20031009214344.GK350776@MrPomeroy2> On 2003.10.09 20:52 John Rollins Jr wrote: > Does anyone have a pinout for the video connector on an HP9000/425? Depends on the video card. There are color cards with three BNC connectors, pinout is obvious. There are mono / gray scale cards with one BNC conector. Connect this to green of a color monitor and you should get a picture. There are other mono / gray scale cards with a SubD 9 connector. I thik I have SubD 9 to cable for this cards. I can measure out the pinout if you have one of these. The monitor must support sync on green. Timing ist most likely 1280 x 1024 @ 60 Hz or 1024 x 786 @ 60 Hz. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Oct 9 16:56:58 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:24 2005 Subject: Acorn Econet In-Reply-To: <10310090833.ZM23014@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> from "Pete Turnbull" at Oct 9, 3 08:33:43 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2630 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20031009/0908a12a/attachment.ksh From jwstephens at msm.umr.edu Thu Oct 9 18:34:31 2003 From: jwstephens at msm.umr.edu (jim) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:24 2005 Subject: Googlers References: <200310090719410983.092C2CB0@192.168.42.129> <20031009111425.L29966@newshell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <3F85F087.202D86AB@msm.umr.edu> are the archive sites set to "no robots" so that they are not indexed on the search engines? If not, then anyone typing in PDP 11 on google will see all the PDP 11 posts in the archive. Unless Jay has converted to an ASP or CGI script that won't serve up the contents to robots. Jim Fred Cisin wrote: > > > I do NOT believe that they are spammers trolling for addresses, nor any > other nefarious purpose. They seem to be just hapless folk without a > clue. > From kd7bcy at teleport.com Thu Oct 9 18:41:12 2003 From: kd7bcy at teleport.com (John Rollins Jr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:24 2005 Subject: HP9k video and other questions Message-ID: <28987915.1065742873493.JavaMail.root@bigbird.psp.pas.earthlink.net> >Depends on the video card. This is the built-in video... DE-15 on the back of the case. Would I be able to use one of my Apollo monitors with an Apollo video card installed in an ISA slot? -JR From teoz at neo.rr.com Thu Oct 9 19:13:17 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:24 2005 Subject: Help! need 400k/800k Mac os 6 or 7 diskettes! References: Message-ID: <009f01c38ec3$53975760$3d7ca418@neo.rr.com> So whats the status of this guys mac SE? I went and dug out my original system 7 disks and found I have the following: System 7 (or 7.1) disks on HD floppies (1.44): Install 1 Install 2 Fonts Tidbits Disk tools Printing System 7 (or 7.1) disks on Double Density floppies (800k): Macintosh Networking Basics System 7 Tuneup Before you install system 7 Install 1 Install 2 Install 3 Printing Fonts Tidbits More Tidbits I know the HD set is complete because I installed it on my IIfx, havnt used the 800k disk set so I am not sure about them. If the person who has the SE needs a copy of these disks (I have a number of 68k macs that can copy these floppies correctly) he can send me blank disks and I will mail them back copied. If the person can use disk images on their own 68k mac I can make images and email them out. I did notice there isnt a disk tools disk listed on the 800k set but I am sure it can be downloaded from apples site, or a 3rd party util can be used (LIDO 7.56). System 6.03, 6.05, 6.08 in 800k images can be found here: http://www.info.apple.com/support/oldersoftwarelist.html If the person needs these images dumped to disk I can do that also if blanks are sent to me ( I am out of 800k floppies since my amiga, atari st, IIgs have sucked them all down in the last month, time to find some more). Hope this helps. TZ From jrkeys at concentric.net Thu Oct 9 19:48:32 2003 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:24 2005 Subject: Altair disk drive and 8800b go for $320 and $1900+ Message-ID: <022801c38ec8$3bb99f90$6009dd40@oemcomputer> Check them out at http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2756553273 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2756553273 From jrkeys at concentric.net Thu Oct 9 19:55:00 2003 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:24 2005 Subject: ASR33 sells for over $600 Message-ID: <022e01c38ec9$231efd30$6009dd40@oemcomputer> With all the talk about interfacing one of these someone just sol a ASR22 for $610 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2756553273 From jrkeys at concentric.net Thu Oct 9 20:01:39 2003 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:24 2005 Subject: Super Elf goes for over $300 Message-ID: <023601c38eca$107c5eb0$6009dd40@oemcomputer> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2756553273 From cb at mythtech.net Thu Oct 9 20:29:39 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:24 2005 Subject: ASR33 sells for over $600 Message-ID: >With all the talk about interfacing one of these someone just sol a ASR22 >for $610 And I just let mine go for $40. Of course, mine wasn't anywhere near as complete or in as good of condition. And although it has been reported to be fully working, it was totally untested at the time of sale. >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2756553273 Um... this doesn't point to an ASR33... it goes to an 8" drive package. A quick search on ebay shows as the ASR 33. -chris From r_a_feldman at hotmail.com Thu Oct 9 20:37:50 2003 From: r_a_feldman at hotmail.com (Robert Feldman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:24 2005 Subject: Muktiple copies of list digest Message-ID: I just signed up for the digest version of the list last week, and I've started to get multiple (2 or even 3) copies of some of the digests. Anybody else having this problem? Bob _________________________________________________________________ Frustrated with dial-up? Get high-speed for as low as $29.95/month (depending on the local service providers in your area). https://broadband.msn.com From vcf at siconic.com Thu Oct 9 20:57:49 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:24 2005 Subject: Need HP 1650A logic analyzer user's manual Message-ID: I desperately need a copy (or original if you have one to sell/trade) of the HP 1650A logic analyzer user's manual. Can anyone help? Thanks! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Thu Oct 9 21:24:54 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:24 2005 Subject: Compaq Portables In-Reply-To: <20031008135216.48395.qmail@web14908.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 8 Oct 2003, Corey McKay wrote: > Are you still giving those away? I'm in Florida. > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search > http://shopping.yahoo.com I try to ignore them but the stupidity of this is overwhelming. It's time to add some sort of filter. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From jpl15 at panix.com Thu Oct 9 21:24:28 2003 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:24 2005 Subject: Posting propagation delays Message-ID: I am moderately curious why it is taking one to five (or more) hours for posts to show up... manual moderation perhaps? If so, I don't envy Jay for the task... But other than that... more than one person I know is experiencing these lengthy delays between 'send' and 'recieved'.. See Y'all at VCF (except Tony Duell, of course)... Cheers John From vcf at siconic.com Thu Oct 9 21:27:07 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:24 2005 Subject: Accidental re-posts (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 9 Oct 2003, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > Before poor Ken's kicked outta here, he already apologized: Anyone could've looked at the header's and seen that it was a mistake. This happens occasionally so no need to get yer panties all up in a bunch. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Thu Oct 9 21:27:57 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:24 2005 Subject: HOW TO UNSUBSCRIBE In-Reply-To: <008201c38e83$11c97060$2af9fea9@D4VMS431> Message-ID: On Thu, 9 Oct 2003, ronbain wrote: > What steps can I take to unsubscribe? Four steps: 1. R 2. T 3. F 4. M -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Thu Oct 9 21:29:41 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:24 2005 Subject: Googlers In-Reply-To: <20031009111425.L29966@newshell.lmi.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 9 Oct 2003, Fred Cisin wrote: > But would it be feasable to have the mailing list software automatically > put a "non-member submission" addition in their subject line? > "[NMS]" How about bouncing their message back with a note indicating that they are responding to a crusty old message that isn't even relevant anymore and that they should pay more attention next time. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Thu Oct 9 21:32:18 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:24 2005 Subject: Data General Eclipse Give-Away In-Reply-To: <004401c38e9d$787a5a80$4291a8c0@aoldsl.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 9 Oct 2003, Ed Sharpe wrote: > what is this talk of Tucson? I was ready for a road trip! > > it says in the ad it is in San Carlo CA United States I guess the concept of "reading" has fallen out of vogue these days. "I really don't know much about this behemoth, except that it is very heavy, and my mother would like it out of her garage in Tucson, Arizona." ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Can anyone tell I'm irritable today? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Thu Oct 9 21:36:09 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:24 2005 Subject: Googlers In-Reply-To: <3F85F087.202D86AB@msm.umr.edu> Message-ID: On Thu, 9 Oct 2003, jim wrote: > are the archive sites set to "no robots" so that they are not indexed on > the search engines? Actually, having the archives come up on Google is the only way to access them at this point, and I don't want that to be taken away. And either you are messing with the reply-to headers or the reply-to headers are f**cked. When I want to reply to a message the default should be to the list. I'm sick of fighting with my damn e-mailer. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Thu Oct 9 21:37:04 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:24 2005 Subject: Altair disk drive and 8800b go for $320 and $1900+ In-Reply-To: <022801c38ec8$3bb99f90$6009dd40@oemcomputer> Message-ID: On Thu, 9 Oct 2003, Keys wrote: > Check them out at > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2756553273 > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2756553273 And...? Why is this news? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Thu Oct 9 21:37:59 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:24 2005 Subject: Super Elf goes for over $300 In-Reply-To: <023601c38eca$107c5eb0$6009dd40@oemcomputer> Message-ID: On Thu, 9 Oct 2003, Keys wrote: > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2756553273 Um, John? I don't see how all these postings are relevant. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From ohh at drizzle.com Thu Oct 9 21:37:04 2003 From: ohh at drizzle.com (O. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:24 2005 Subject: ASR33 sells for over $600 In-Reply-To: <022e01c38ec9$231efd30$6009dd40@oemcomputer> Message-ID: > With all the talk about interfacing one of these someone just sol a ASR22 > for $610 > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2756553273 I thought about bidding on it early on - I've been wanting to replace the ASR-33 I used to have, which sadly died - but the seller refused to say how much the shipping was in advance... kind of a danger sign, I felt, especially when they pointedly refused to discuss it in e-mails. Probably just as well; I certainly wasn't willing to bid it up _that_ high. :/ A hundred, a hundred and fifty, if it were in good order and reasonable shipping? Okay. Six hundred and some shipping amount the seller refuses to divulge? Not bloody likely. :) :) -O.- From tothwolf at concentric.net Thu Oct 9 22:16:55 2003 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:24 2005 Subject: Googlers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 9 Oct 2003, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Thu, 9 Oct 2003, Fred Cisin wrote: > > > But would it be feasable to have the mailing list software > > automatically put a "non-member submission" addition in their subject > > line? "[NMS]" Or...maybe replacing the From: email address in the archive emails with the list email address hasn't worked as well as folks thought it might? > How about bouncing their message back with a note indicating that they > are responding to a crusty old message that isn't even relevant anymore > and that they should pay more attention next time. The XFree86 mailing list auto-sends an email the first time someone posts to the list (even if not a subscriber) to let the sender know that the address they mailed is a mailing list. It seems to work very well. -Toth From tothwolf at concentric.net Thu Oct 9 22:20:43 2003 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:24 2005 Subject: Googlers In-Reply-To: <3F85F087.202D86AB@msm.umr.edu> References: <200310090719410983.092C2CB0@192.168.42.129> <20031009111425.L29966@newshell.lmi.net> <3F85F087.202D86AB@msm.umr.edu> Message-ID: On Thu, 9 Oct 2003, jim wrote: > Fred Cisin wrote: > > > I do NOT believe that they are spammers trolling for addresses, nor > > any other nefarious purpose. They seem to be just hapless folk > > without a clue. > > are the archive sites set to "no robots" so that they are not indexed on > the search engines? > > If not, then anyone typing in PDP 11 on google will see all the PDP 11 > posts in the archive. > > Unless Jay has converted to an ASP or CGI script that won't serve up the > contents to robots. I think that allowing Google and other search engines to crawl the messages is actually a *good* idea. There are a number of mailing lists that I've dealt with that denied search engines, and only had their own search function. Those search functions never did work very well. If not for Google, I'd have not ever found the list. I'm sure I'm not the only one. -Toth From jrkeys at concentric.net Thu Oct 9 22:36:31 2003 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:24 2005 Subject: Super Elf goes for over $300 References: Message-ID: <007901c38edf$b3a2fbc0$4408dd40@oemcomputer> Just letting folks see what some of the items are going for since that questions pops up now and then when someone on the list is thinking about buying or selling an item. Sorry for wasting your time but that is why I try to state in the subject line what the message is about. I will refrain from sending anymore to the list. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vintage Computer Festival" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Cc: "cctech@classiccmp" Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2003 9:37 PM Subject: Re: Super Elf goes for over $300 > On Thu, 9 Oct 2003, Keys wrote: > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2756553273 > > Um, John? > > I don't see how all these postings are relevant. > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage mputers ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > > From vcf at siconic.com Thu Oct 9 23:43:09 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:24 2005 Subject: Super Elf goes for over $300 In-Reply-To: <007901c38edf$b3a2fbc0$4408dd40@oemcomputer> Message-ID: On Thu, 9 Oct 2003, Keys wrote: > Just letting folks see what some of the items are going for since that > questions pops up now and then when someone on the list is thinking about > buying or selling an item. Sorry for wasting your time but that is why I try > to state in the subject line what the message is about. I will refrain from > sending anymore to the list. I don't know. It just seems to me that if anyone actually wanted to see what was happening on eBay they could just type in the URL themselves. The list is just pissing me off tonight. Stop it. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From nico at farumdata.dk Thu Oct 9 23:46:18 2003 From: nico at farumdata.dk (Nico de Jong) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:24 2005 Subject: *****Ty Data word processor tapes need data read from.....HELP! References: <005e01c38eaa$a6e4c1a0$4291a8c0@aoldsl.net> Message-ID: <001901c38ee9$72d52000$2101a8c0@farumdata.dk> What kind of tape is it, physically ? Any special recording modes (I'm thinking along QIC-02 or QIC-80 lines) Nico ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ed Sharpe" To: Cc: Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2003 11:16 PM Subject: *****Ty Data word processor tapes need data read from.....HELP! > Ty Data word processor tapes need data read from.....HELP! > > attempting to help someone out on this issue. they have the ty data > tapes but alas no machine... google does noting much on this issue! > > Does anyone have a ty data machine or know he char set and format tapes > are recorded in? > > thanks ed sharpe, archivist for smecc > > From nico at farumdata.dk Thu Oct 9 23:47:28 2003 From: nico at farumdata.dk (Nico de Jong) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:24 2005 Subject: Looking for Overland OD3201 Tape unit References: <2D88837B72AAE58A2A9B064B@ip115-170.ott.istop.com><000d01c38e76$bdc38b60$2101a8c0@farumdata.dk> <20031009113106.V29966@newshell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <002001c38ee9$9bda3940$2101a8c0@farumdata.dk> Right, but they were all from the same guy, and I've seen some more thing morning. His _enter_ key must be glued to the bottom of the keyboard Nico ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Cisin" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2003 8:32 PM Subject: Re: Looking for Overland OD3201 Tape unit > Usually, it wouldn't be worth much. > But if there have been half a dozen inquiries for them this morning, > then it is obviously very much in demand, and the price should > go up to reflect that! > > > On Thu, 9 Oct 2003, Nico de Jong wrote: > > > How many do you need ? I've seen the same message 4 times within 10 minutes > > Nico > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Ken Campbell" > > To: > > Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2003 10:26 PM > > Subject: Looking for Overland OD3201 Tape unit > > > > > > > > > > Trying to find an Overland Data, Inc. OD3201 (or similar model) > > > 9-track reel-to-reel unit. It is a reasonably thin, > > > grey unit that stands vertically and has a plexiglas > > > window built in the door. > > > > > > Please reply directly to ken@fraserhouse.com > > > including condition and price. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Ken Campbell > From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri Oct 10 00:10:20 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:24 2005 Subject: Posting propagation delays In-Reply-To: John Lawson "Posting propagation delays" (Oct 9, 22:24) References: Message-ID: <10310100610.ZM23984@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Oct 9, 22:24, John Lawson wrote: > > I am moderately curious why it is taking one to five (or more) hours for > posts to show up... manual moderation perhaps? If so, I don't envy Jay > for the task... > > But other than that... more than one person I know is experiencing > these lengthy delays between 'send' and 'recieved'.. When did you post this one? The headers show when it passe through each MTA along the way (in reverse order): Received: from [209.145.140.36] (helo=huey.classiccmp.org) by he104war.uk.vianw.net with esmtp (Exim 4.04) id 1A7n7p-0002av-00 for pete@dunnington.u-net.com; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 03:35:29 +0100 Received: from huey.classiccmp.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by huey.classiccmp.org (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h9A2YjH5056131; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 21:34:46 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org) Received: from mail3.panix.com (mail3.panix.com [166.84.1.74]) by huey.classiccmp.org (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h9A2WmH3056107 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 21:32:48 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from jpl15@panix.com) Received: from panix2.panix.com (panix2.panix.com [166.84.1.2]) by mail3.panix.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D5F7F9826F for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 22:24:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by panix2.panix.com (8.11.6p2-a/8.8.8/PanixN1.1) with ESMTP id h9A2OSm12933 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2003 22:24:28 -0400 (EDT) So it took about 10 minutes from your mailer to my ISP (give or take a little, allowing for possible lack of clock sync) fo this one. Next time you see a delay, look at the message headers and you'll see where the delay is. In this case, most of the 10 minutes is at panix.com. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From freddyboomboom at comcast.net Fri Oct 10 00:29:58 2003 From: freddyboomboom at comcast.net (Andrew Prince) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:24 2005 Subject: Help! need 400k/800k Mac os 6 or 7 diskettes! In-Reply-To: <009f01c38ec3$53975760$3d7ca418@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: <000001c38eef$8d5965c0$6c7ba8c0@freddyboomboom> I've got 2 10 pack Maxell DD/DS 3.5 inch floppies (800k), still in shrink wrap. If you're in the neighborhood of Portland Oregon, where do you want to meet so I can hand them over? Or I could mail them to you, and I'd even trust you to send the postage back to me... :) TTFN Andrew > -----Original Message----- > Subject: Re: Help! need 400k/800k Mac os 6 or 7 diskettes! > > If the person needs these images dumped to disk I can do that > also if blanks > are sent to me ( I am out of 800k floppies since my amiga, > atari st, IIgs > have sucked them all down in the last month, time to find some more). > > Hope this helps. > > TZ > > > > > > From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri Oct 10 00:30:50 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:24 2005 Subject: Googlers In-Reply-To: Vintage Computer Festival "Re: Googlers" (Oct 9, 19:36) References: Message-ID: <10310100630.ZM23997@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Oct 9, 19:36, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > Actually, having the archives come up on Google is the only way to access > them at this point, and I don't want that to be taken away. I agree, it's really usful. > And either you are messing with the reply-to headers or the reply-to > headers are f**cked. When I want to reply to a message the default should > be to the list. I'm sick of fighting with my damn e-mailer. What's up with your mailer? The "Reply-to:" header is fine, and there aren't any extraneous headers that should affect replies. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri Oct 10 00:36:32 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:24 2005 Subject: Googlers In-Reply-To: Tothwolf "Re: Googlers" (Oct 9, 22:16) References: Message-ID: <10310100636.ZM24000@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Oct 9, 22:16, Tothwolf wrote: > On Thu, 9 Oct 2003, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > On Thu, 9 Oct 2003, Fred Cisin wrote: > > > > > But would it be feasable to have the mailing list software > > > automatically put a "non-member submission" addition in their subject > > > line? "[NMS]" > > Or...maybe replacing the From: email address in the archive emails with > the list email address hasn't worked as well as folks thought it might? Ah, does that mean I'm not the only person who doesn't like that? It just looks wrong to me, putting some other address against my name, and I'm sure that's part of the cause of so many non-subscriber replies being sent to the list (I'm sure most are meant to go to the original poster). The intent was to prevent address harvesting, but I'd prefer my address was just obfuscated in some way (maybe split up). Wasn't the address-replacing meant to be temporary, until a better way was found to obfuscate the sender address? Actually, I don't care if it's not even obfuscated, but I know others do. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From esharpe at uswest.net Fri Oct 10 00:43:17 2003 From: esharpe at uswest.net (ed sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:24 2005 Subject: *****Ty Data word processor tapes need data read from.....HELP! References: <005e01c38eaa$a6e4c1a0$4291a8c0@aoldsl.net> <001901c38ee9$72d52000$2101a8c0@farumdata.dk> Message-ID: <003f01c38ef1$68978990$0100a8c0@SONYDIGITALED> it is a normal cassette... if I remember these units right they were hooked to a typewriter... Thanks Ed Sharpe archivist for SMECC Please check our web site at http://www.smecc.org to see other engineering fields, communications and computation stuff we buy, and by all means when in Arizona drop in and see us. address: coury house / smecc 5802 w palmaire ave glendale az 85301 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nico de Jong" To: "Ed Sharpe" ; "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2003 9:46 PM Subject: Re: *****Ty Data word processor tapes need data read from.....HELP! > What kind of tape is it, physically ? Any special recording modes (I'm thinking along QIC-02 or QIC-80 lines) > Nico > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ed Sharpe" > To: > Cc: > Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2003 11:16 PM > Subject: *****Ty Data word processor tapes need data read from.....HELP! > > > > Ty Data word processor tapes need data read from.....HELP! > > > > attempting to help someone out on this issue. they have the ty data > > tapes but alas no machine... google does noting much on this issue! > > > > Does anyone have a ty data machine or know he char set and format tapes > > are recorded in? > > > > thanks ed sharpe, archivist for smecc > > > > > > > From jpl15 at panix.com Fri Oct 10 01:08:22 2003 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:24 2005 Subject: Posting propagation delays In-Reply-To: <10310100610.ZM23984@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <10310100610.ZM23984@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 10 Oct 2003, Pete Turnbull wrote: > On Oct 9, 22:24, John Lawson wrote: > > > > I am moderately curious why it is taking one to five (or more) > h [chaste snippage] > When did you post this one? The headers show when it passe through > each MTA along the way (in reverse order): This one 'cleared' fairly quickly, as you point out. Vide my previous message "Scrapping Tape Drive" for an example of a 'delayed' post. > > Received: from [209.145.140.36] (helo=huey.classiccmp.org) > [more snippola] > So it took about 10 minutes from your mailer to my ISP (give or take a > little, allowing for possible lack of clock sync) fo this one. Next > time you see a delay, look at the message headers and you'll see where > the delay is. Well, Pete, maybe *you'll* see where the delay is - I'm just a dumb EE, and all this Stuff makes my head hurt. In fact, I have never in the last 12 years had the "full header" mode in Pine 'on' until tonite... and I turned in right back off again. What I am still asking is why it sometimes takes hours for a post to propagate - not how to read / interpret routing info. I don't care much about the data per se, just trying to understand the *algorithm*. And, understanding that even in the last six months, there has been a quantum jump in the spam and 'bacteria' levels in the overall Inet traffic - it still irks me that not too long ago messages seemd to have only a few seconds from 'send' to 'read'. Cheers John From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri Oct 10 01:23:57 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:24 2005 Subject: Acorn Econet In-Reply-To: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) "Re: Acorn Econet" (Oct 9, 22:56) References: Message-ID: <10310100723.ZM24034@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Oct 9, 22:56, Tony Duell wrote: > Incidentally, have you ever tried to add 'real' sideways RAM to a B+? > The buit-in RAM only gives 12K of sideways RAM, which is fairly useless. > I was wondering about adding a 62256 chip (or similar) in one of the > EPROM sockets, with the WE/ line connected appropriately. I've never tried it because I have two "proper" Beebs (the kind with ATPL Sidewise boards, second processors, and case clips instead of screws :-)) a B+ 128K, and a Master Turbo. I don't see any reason it shouldn't work, though. I always fit a write-protect/enable/disable switch to sideways RAM, though. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri Oct 10 01:54:16 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:24 2005 Subject: Posting propagation delays In-Reply-To: John Lawson "Re: Posting propagation delays" (Oct 10, 2:08) References: <10310100610.ZM23984@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <10310100754.ZM24106@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Oct 10, 2:08, John Lawson wrote: > On Fri, 10 Oct 2003, Pete Turnbull wrote: > > On Oct 9, 22:24, John Lawson wrote: > > > > > > I am moderately curious why it is taking one to five (or more) > > When did you post this one? The headers show when it passe through > > each MTA along the way (in reverse order): > > This one 'cleared' fairly quickly, as you point out. Vide my previous > message "Scrapping Tape Drive" for an example of a 'delayed' post. Well, I no longer have that particular message... > What I am still asking is why it sometimes takes hours for a post to > propagate - not how to read / interpret routing info. I don't care much > about the data per se, just trying to understand the *algorithm*. My point is that unless you can see *where* the delay is, you won't be able to guess *why*. If a server is busy, it might queue mail up; mail queues are normally run at regular intervals but the size of the interval depends on the sysadmin who set it up (15 minutes is common). If there's a temporary DNS failure, mail might be queued for longer. There are various other things that might delay mail -- on a busy server, set up to use idents, mail from a PC might get delayed long enough to be deferred until the next queue run (and then deferred again, and...) Next time you see a delay, look at the headers in that message (or send them to me -- I tend to delete mail as I read it, so telling me which message, after the event, isn't going to be helpful :-)) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From tractorb at ihug.co.nz Fri Oct 10 02:09:32 2003 From: tractorb at ihug.co.nz (Dave Brown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:25 2005 Subject: Googlers References: <10310100630.ZM23997@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <032d01c38efd$74571500$6a00a8c0@athlon> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pete Turnbull" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Friday, October 10, 2003 6:30 PM Subject: Re: Googlers > On Oct 9, 19:36, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > > Actually, having the archives come up on Google is the only way to > access > > them at this point, and I don't want that to be taken away. > > I agree, it's really usful. > > > And either you are messing with the reply-to headers or the reply-to > > headers are f**cked. When I want to reply to a message the default > should > > be to the list. I'm sick of fighting with my damn e-mailer. > > What's up with your mailer? The "Reply-to:" header is fine, and there > aren't any extraneous headers that should affect replies. > > -- > Pete Peter Turnbull > Network Manager > University of York > From cheri-post at web.de Fri Oct 10 03:39:28 2003 From: cheri-post at web.de (Pierre Gebhardt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:25 2005 Subject: Posting times Message-ID: <200310100839.h9A8dRQ13716@mailgate5.cinetic.de> Normally, I get nothing within 3 or 4 days and after that, I get a bunch of 200 emails. As Al says, sometimes the original email of a subject comes in later than lots of answers to it. I've seen this several times now. Pierre > > Anyone else seeing extended times (< 15 minutes or so) before their > posts get to the list? Kind of annoying to post something and not see it > pop up on the list within a relatively short time!!! ______________________________________________________________________________ Horoskop, Comics, VIPs, Wetter, Sport und Lotto im WEB.DE Screensaver1.2 Kostenlos downloaden: http://screensaver.web.de/?mc=021110 From cheri-post at web.de Fri Oct 10 03:45:27 2003 From: cheri-post at web.de (Pierre Gebhardt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:25 2005 Subject: anyone notice this gorgeous piece? Message-ID: <200310100845.h9A8jRQ28300@mailgate5.cinetic.de> Yep, me too !! Thats what I call a nice disk drive ! > That was a nice one and I hope to get one someday. > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3050481627&category=1479 > > > > CDC 97xx disc drive. Looks very clean. > > > ______________________________________________________________________________ Horoskop, Comics, VIPs, Wetter, Sport und Lotto im WEB.DE Screensaver1.2 Kostenlos downloaden: http://screensaver.web.de/?mc=021110 From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Fri Oct 10 03:55:16 2003 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:25 2005 Subject: HP9k video and other questions In-Reply-To: <28987915.1065742873493.JavaMail.root@bigbird.psp.pas.earthlink.net>; from kd7bcy@teleport.com on Fri, Oct 10, 2003 at 01:41:12 %z References: <28987915.1065742873493.JavaMail.root@bigbird.psp.pas.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <20031010085516.GM350776@MrPomeroy2> On 2003.10.10 01:41 John Rollins Jr wrote: > >Depends on the video card. > This is the built-in video... DE-15 on the back of the case. Uhh. Never seen that on a HP/Apollo 4xx. > Would I be able to use one of my Apollo monitors with an > Apollo video card installed in an ISA slot? No. The ISA slot is only for the Apollo Token Ring card and not usable for anything else. (I was told so, I don't know if this is true.) -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From rhudson at cnonline.net Fri Oct 10 08:00:00 2003 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:25 2005 Subject: Help! need 400k/800k Mac os 6 or 7 diskettes! In-Reply-To: <000001c38eef$8d5965c0$6c7ba8c0@freddyboomboom> Message-ID: On Friday, October 10, 2003, at 12:29 AM, Andrew Prince wrote: > I've got 2 10 pack Maxell DD/DS 3.5 inch floppies (800k), still in > shrink > wrap. > > If you're in the neighborhood of Portland Oregon, where do you want to > meet > so I can hand them over? > > Or I could mail them to you, and I'd even trust you to send the > postage back > to me... :) > > TTFN > Andrew Hi Andrew, Thanks I have blank disks. I am looking for the original of the message below to see who said that. > >> -----Original Message----- >> Subject: Re: Help! need 400k/800k Mac os 6 or 7 diskettes! >> >> If the person needs these images dumped to disk I can do that >> also if blanks >> are sent to me ( I am out of 800k floppies since my amiga, >> atari st, IIgs >> have sucked them all down in the last month, time to find some more). >> >> Hope this helps. >> >> TZ >> >> >> >> >> >> > > From jwest at classiccmp.org Fri Oct 10 07:59:58 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:25 2005 Subject: Posting propagation delays References: <10310100610.ZM23984@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <008901c38f2e$68c95b40$033310ac@kwcorp.com> It was written.... > > I am moderately curious why it is taking one to five (or more) > hours for > > posts to show up... manual moderation perhaps? If so, I don't envy > Jay > > for the task... The delay depends on a lot of things. Here is some general non-specific info. First, it fairly frequently happens that someone subscribes to the list, then gets a different email address, or just posts from a different one, and to the list it becomes a "non-member" submission. There are also some regular list contributors who have never bothered to subscribe so their posts are always manually approved. I TRY to go through all the "posts held for moderation" twice a day. However, due to work and believe it or not, tending to MY collection, sometimes I get backlogged for a day or even a couple days. It's not uncommon for 200+ emails to be waiting moderation (on each list) each time I do it. It's not a 5 minute affair to go through each of them and approve/discard them. The list does get hit with pretty significant amounts of SPAM even with keyword filters further making this very time consuming. Another reason for delays is believe it or not a suprisingly large number of people try to use that "dynamic DNS" crap which is sorely unreliable, or try to host their own mail or web service on a cable or xDSL or even dialup (hence the dyndns stuff). WHY do people who get a tiny DSL or cable connection think it's so cool to run their own services? These connections were meant for one thing - websurfing (they are asymetric channels) - NOT mail or web serving or even worse, hosting your own DNS. Unless they are very carefully watching their mail logs, most of the time they don't even know that fairly often their mail system isn't reachable. So all the list emails going to them fill up my mail queue with "timed out waiting to connect to host....", or "host unreachable...". So often many sets of complete list traffic sit in my mail queue. The problem is, each time a sendmail queue runner wakes up on my mail server, it has to go through the entire mail queue. Not just for regular list traffic but for all these emails that were rejected by the target server the first time or two, which delays everyone elses traffic. I suspect I'm running into a "cascading queue runner" effect, where the queue run times are set fairly short and another queue runner is started before the first one finishes which compounds the problem with locking, etc. These people generally are unaware that their "coolness" effort is affecting others. Sorry for going off on this tangent - pet peeve. More often than not, the delays people have seen are the result of other mail servers along the way, not mine - as was thankfully pointed out in this posting by the listing of the server hops and transit times. On a couple of occasions we have had problems on my end I will admit, but most often that's not the case. There is definitely some additional tuning to sendmail that I need to do. I just haven't had the time yet. Right now my personal classiccmp email address has well over 800 emails in it that are mostly things I need to address. My work email is much worse. I am truely sorry to the people who have emailed me and I haven't responded yet, but with those volumes it's hard to even motivate to start when one gets behind. And I have been behind lately mostly because I have spent some time with my own collection as of late. Not to mention the fact that... well, perhaps I am a little irked that people think a 10 minute post to receive cycle is slow. Ah well, I'll get there :) Jay --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From rhudson at cnonline.net Fri Oct 10 08:08:20 2003 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:25 2005 Subject: Help! need 400k/800k Mac os 6 or 7 diskettes! In-Reply-To: <009f01c38ec3$53975760$3d7ca418@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: On Thursday, October 9, 2003, at 07:13 PM, TeoZ wrote: > System 7 (or 7.1) disks on Double Density floppies (800k): > Macintosh Networking Basics > System 7 Tuneup > Before you install system 7 > Install 1 > Install 2 > Install 3 > Printing > Fonts > Tidbits > More Tidbits > If the person who has the SE needs a copy of these disks (I have a > number of > 68k macs that can copy these floppies correctly) he can send me blank > disks > and I will mail them back copied. Let's Talk offline --- :^) Someone is mailing me system 6 and that's probably what I will install at first. It's running 7.1 (incomplete) right now, 10 disks? > If the person can use disk images on their > own 68k mac I can make images and email them out. Can't, My SE is not net-connected. > I did notice there isnt a > disk tools disk listed on the 800k set but I am sure it can be > downloaded > from apples site, or a 3rd party util can be used (LIDO 7.56). > > System 6.03, 6.05, 6.08 in 800k images can be found here: > http://www.info.apple.com/support/oldersoftwarelist.html > > If the person needs these images dumped to disk I can do that also if > blanks > are sent to me ( I am out of 800k floppies since my amiga, atari st, > IIgs > have sucked them all down in the last month, time to find some more). > > Hope this helps. > > TZ > > > > > > > From rhudson at cnonline.net Fri Oct 10 08:09:42 2003 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:25 2005 Subject: Help! need 400k/800k Mac os 6 or 7 diskettes! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <0326882A-FB23-11D7-9D06-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> Was there such a thing as an external 1.44 drive? If there was could my SE use it? On Thursday, October 9, 2003, at 02:46 PM, chris wrote: >> Do older external 400k drives work with System 8? > > I doubt it. I'm pretty sure Apple removed support for 400K disks at the > OS level starting with 8. Although I could be wrong. > >> I find it hard to >> swing a dead cat without hitting a pile of external Mac (or Apple II) >> disk drives. > > Are you sure they are 400k drives? The platinum colored ones that were > pleantiful and worked with the mac and the IIgs are 800k drives. > > If you really find an old external beige 400k drive for the Mac, I'd > love > to have it. I have two that are dead and none that work. I'd like one > for > one of my 128 Macs. > > -chris > > > From tomj at wps.com Thu Oct 9 15:47:15 2003 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:25 2005 Subject: [Fwd: paper tape, black or otherwise, and non-paper] Message-ID: <1065731327.15567.40.camel@linux.local> I don't know why everyone's so hot to buy old oxidized crumbly tape when you can buy it BRAND NEW MANUFACTURE from www.westnc.com for cheaper... mylar too (not cheap). * Mylar is shiny and strong. You can (almost) tow a car with it. * Paper is, well, paper. It rips. * Except when it's not: there are paper-mylar-paper hybrid tapes, which were once popular; it handles like paper but is much tougher. In the URL below, the larger picture on the left is hybrid tape. * There are oiled paper tapes, but those were mostly for mechanical systems. Most "modern" punches handle mylar. ASR33's and the like do NOT, they like oiled paper. Many really-low-cost readers, like from the early hobby computer era, prefer black tape, since the cheaper reader heads needed 100% contrast (and yellow tape passes yellow->IR (incandescent) light). http://wps.com/projects/paper-tape/index.html PS: A quick check of WestNC's website shows skyrocketing prices! I think they are phasing it out... maybe I should stockpile more... http://www.westnc.com/paptape.html] From tomj at wps.com Thu Oct 9 15:47:16 2003 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:25 2005 Subject: [Fwd: paper tape, black or otherwise, and non-paper] Message-ID: <1065731372.15567.42.camel@linux.local> I don't know why everyone's so hot to buy old oxidized crumbly tape when you can buy it BRAND NEW MANUFACTURE from www.westnc.com for cheaper... mylar too (not cheap). * Mylar is shiny and strong. You can (almost) tow a car with it. * Paper is, well, paper. It rips. * Except when it's not: there are paper-mylar-paper hybrid tapes, which were once popular; it handles like paper but is much tougher. In the URL below, the larger picture on the left is hybrid tape. * There are oiled paper tapes, but those were mostly for mechanical systems. Most "modern" punches handle mylar. ASR33's and the like do NOT, they like oiled paper. Many really-low-cost readers, like from the early hobby computer era, prefer black tape, since the cheaper reader heads needed 100% contrast (and yellow tape passes yellow->IR (incandescent) light). http://wps.com/projects/paper-tape/index.html PS: A quick check of WestNC's website shows skyrocketing prices! I think they are phasing it out... maybe I should stockpile more... http://www.westnc.com/paptape.html] From tomj at wps.com Thu Oct 9 15:57:54 2003 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:25 2005 Subject: black paper tape = mylar? In-Reply-To: <200310091700.h99H0NH5053615@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <200310091700.h99H0NH5053615@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <1065732011.15568.49.camel@linux.local> > That sounds interesting, how is it oiled? I had thought about that > before, and I couldn't imagine just dunking a roll of paper in oil, or > spraying it with oil or something. How oily is paper tape anyway? I > don't have any oiled tape, although I need to get some for my ASR33. I > have been using strips of computer paper to test, but I am worried that > the unoiled paper might wear down the punch. I thought about having a > stack of junk fanfold greenbar cut into 1" strips on the big machine in > at work, but since it wouldn't be oiled, I don't know if it would > damage anything. Do you really _need_ oiled tape, or can you get by > without it? I odn't know how it's oiled (mist probably) but it's oily enoug that if you leave it on a stack of paper, magazine, clothing, etc it leaves a nasty stain the next morning. Haven't touched the horrid stuff in a decade or two but I bet it ozidizes faster. Unless you're punching out the assembly source to your FORTRAN compiler or something I doubt you'll wear out you punch with casual use of dry tape. You might try running a manually oiled foot or two of tape (punch RUBOUTs) once in a while to manually oil it. Just a guess. Chadless 5-level oiled tape is the most 'fun'. Instead of holes it punches little toilet-seat-shaped "U"s. Umm not so good for optical readers, but fine for mechanical readers what stick a little rob up the hole to read. I have an article about different types of readers talka about readers that blow air through the holes, detected with a little 'sail' on a microswitch, and running the chadless tape over a corner to tilt out the flaps for optical reading. Sheesh, why bother. From tomj at wps.com Thu Oct 9 16:10:10 2003 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:25 2005 Subject: ASR33 Teletype interfacing Message-ID: <1065732747.15567.62.camel@linux.local> >I have been attempting to get my ASR33 teletype connected to something >and communicating, but so far I have not been successful. I have built >the interface here : >http://www.daedalus.co.nz/~don/computing/20mahack.html It wont work, sorry... Teletypes are inductive loads. Though they only want 20 mils, the voltage needs to be high to get the initial magnet pull-in (basic RL theory). ASR33 loops were generally run at 100V or so, but I run my Model 28 at 14V, with non-perfect error rate, and I don't use the keyboard. The keyboard and printer are IN SERIES. If you hit keys while it's printing you foul it up. Normal. Because it's inductive, it makes a spike when yuo turn the voltage off. You need to suppress this with a diode, a resistor and capacitor, for example. They're not subtle interfaces, and weren't meant to be. If you just want to print, you can rig up a power transistor, two resistors, a diode, and a high-voltage DC power supply to do the trick, and drive it from the serial port. If you want to receieve also, you can use another transistor and resistor to pick off the change in loop current that happens when you press keys which open the loop, and drive the serial port. I've done one of these fairly recently, and if poked with a not-too-sharp stick, I'll scan the schematic and pu on my website. From A.Haunstetter at VR-Web.de Thu Oct 9 16:11:30 2003 From: A.Haunstetter at VR-Web.de (Adrian Haunstetter) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:25 2005 Subject: Erasing Eprom by using UV-Led Message-ID: <000c01c38eaa$01f62940$c3fdfea9@adrian> Hello Mr. Shannon, in the topic "A way to erase OTP components?" I read that you succeeded to erase windowed 27C512 using a UV-Led. Because I'm about to build a combined Programmer/Eraser, where erasing shall be done with UV-Led, I like to ask you about your experiences. What type of Led do you use? How long do you need to erase? What was the distance between Led and Chip? Did you made Test with other devices? I hope you take a little bit of your time to answer me. With best regards Adrian Haunstetter From artools at earthlink.net Thu Oct 9 21:36:37 2003 From: artools at earthlink.net (Steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:25 2005 Subject: Minivac tic-tac-toe Message-ID: <3F861B35.BF93FC11@earthlink.net> Hi Tony, Did you ever get the tic-tac-toe wiring diagram? I would like a copy of it too. I don't have a Minivac, but it would be simple enough to build. Do you have any Minivac pictures to send. I am interested in details of the motor and ttt board. If I had all the details of the Minivac structure, I might be able to figure out a ttt diagram. -- Steve From acnz at info.com.ph Thu Oct 9 23:29:58 2003 From: acnz at info.com.ph (acnz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:25 2005 Subject: RZ26-E 1.05Gbyte SCSI Hard Drive Message-ID: <006001c38ee7$2b7e6880$d5f1a3ca@ispc30029> Hi Mike I am interested in a DEC BA42 Expansion Box containing a RZ26-E SCSI 1.05Gbyte hard drive? Curious if you have what we are looking for or can help in locating any of these outdated drives? Need 2 to 3. Cheers Benny Braas Airways New Zealand Philippines acnz@info.com.ph From meltie at meltie.com Fri Oct 10 04:16:56 2003 From: meltie at meltie.com (Alex White) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:25 2005 Subject: anyone notice this gorgeous piece? In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20031008120505.02055630@mail.ubanproductions.com> References: <5.2.0.9.0.20031008092141.020376e0@mail.ubanproductions.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20031008120505.02055630@mail.ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <200310101016.56590.meltie@meltie.com> On Wednesday 08 Oct 2003 6:10 pm, Tom Uban wrote: > I also have a Fujitsu M2284K drive which has the tinted > plastic HDA cover, so that you can see the guts of the > 14" drive assembly. > > http://www.ubanproductions.com/m2284k.html > > --tom > Sweet, could you give me an insight into how the shock indicator works? alex/melt From meltie at meltie.com Fri Oct 10 04:16:56 2003 From: meltie at meltie.com (Alex White) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:25 2005 Subject: anyone notice this gorgeous piece? In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20031008120505.02055630@mail.ubanproductions.com> References: <5.2.0.9.0.20031008092141.020376e0@mail.ubanproductions.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20031008120505.02055630@mail.ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <200310101016.56590.meltie@meltie.com> On Wednesday 08 Oct 2003 6:10 pm, Tom Uban wrote: > I also have a Fujitsu M2284K drive which has the tinted > plastic HDA cover, so that you can see the guts of the > 14" drive assembly. > > http://www.ubanproductions.com/m2284k.html > > --tom > Sweet, could you give me an insight into how the shock indicator works? alex/melt From meltie at meltie.com Fri Oct 10 04:19:50 2003 From: meltie at meltie.com (Alex White) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:25 2005 Subject: Multi-CPU Qbus VAXen In-Reply-To: <3F8468DD.20302@ecubics.com> References: <200310081836.h98Iahe23050@abort.crash.com> <3F8468DD.20302@ecubics.com> Message-ID: <200310101019.50843.meltie@meltie.com> On Wednesday 08 Oct 2003 8:43 pm, emanuel stiebler wrote: > Steven M Jones wrote: > > On a related note, I there's a MicroNote about running multiple > > MicroVAX II CPUs (KA630, M7606) in a single backplane. Up to 4 > > in fact (MicroNote #26, on www.ibiblio.org). Has anyone on the > > list ever worked with, built, or seen such a beast? Did any > > interesting OS research projects of the time use this feature > > (I'm thinking V or Mach)? > > Check the note again. AFAIRC, this (ka630, ka650, ...) had just a > "mailbox" register to communicate, and only one cpu had access to the > qbus. The other ones had the qbus interface shut down. So, if you didn't > have you special backplane with 4 qbuses, it was pretty limited ... I've been planning a monster like this, 4 small backplanes mounted in a hacked-around wide cabinet, 4 processors running as a VAXcluster over Ethernet... Been done before? alex/melt From meltie at meltie.com Fri Oct 10 04:20:37 2003 From: meltie at meltie.com (Alex White) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:25 2005 Subject: cctalk Digest, Vol 2, Issue 13 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200310101020.37254.meltie@meltie.com> On Thursday 09 Oct 2003 7:29 am, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > > > > OH MY GAWD! WHAT AM I SAYING? > > > > > > Ok , you leave her there. I'll carry her to the bedroom. :) > > > > Bedroom? Wheres your sense of adventure? ;) > > "A Real Retroist(tm) does it... on top of a VAX 11/7x0 !" .. Ah, memories... Was a BA215 though ;) alex/melt From meltie at meltie.com Fri Oct 10 04:20:37 2003 From: meltie at meltie.com (Alex White) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:25 2005 Subject: cctalk Digest, Vol 2, Issue 13 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200310101020.37254.meltie@meltie.com> On Thursday 09 Oct 2003 7:29 am, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > > > > OH MY GAWD! WHAT AM I SAYING? > > > > > > Ok , you leave her there. I'll carry her to the bedroom. :) > > > > Bedroom? Wheres your sense of adventure? ;) > > "A Real Retroist(tm) does it... on top of a VAX 11/7x0 !" .. Ah, memories... Was a BA215 though ;) alex/melt From uban at ubanproductions.com Fri Oct 10 10:02:39 2003 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:25 2005 Subject: anyone notice this gorgeous piece? In-Reply-To: <200310101016.56590.meltie@meltie.com> References: <5.2.0.9.0.20031008120505.02055630@mail.ubanproductions.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20031008092141.020376e0@mail.ubanproductions.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20031008120505.02055630@mail.ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20031010100032.0422de78@mail.ubanproductions.com> At 10:16 AM 10/10/2003 +0100, Alex White wrote: >On Wednesday 08 Oct 2003 6:10 pm, Tom Uban wrote: > > I also have a Fujitsu M2284K drive which has the tinted > > plastic HDA cover, so that you can see the guts of the > > 14" drive assembly. > > > > http://www.ubanproductions.com/m2284k.html > > > > --tom > > > >Sweet, could you give me an insight into how the shock indicator works? > >alex/melt There are both tilt and shock style indicators. They are pretty simple devices. I believe that the tilt ones just have a sticky surface and some red particles which if tilted get stuck to the sticky surface in order to indicate the tilted condition. The shock sensors are similar, but must have some sort of membrane which ruptures, allowing the particles to flow onto the sticky surface, or something. --tom From jpl15 at panix.com Fri Oct 10 10:06:31 2003 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:25 2005 Subject: Posting propagation delays In-Reply-To: <008901c38f2e$68c95b40$033310ac@kwcorp.com> References: <10310100610.ZM23984@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <008901c38f2e$68c95b40$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 10 Oct 2003, Jay West wrote: > It was written.... > > > I am moderately curious why it is taking one to five (or more) > > hours for [snp] > late. Not to mention the fact that... well, perhaps I am a little irked that > people think a 10 minute post to receive cycle is slow. Okay - now this gets slightly out of hand - so: I have been subscribed to classiccmp since... 97? 98? don't remember, and from Netcom (who I was with from 91 til 00 when they dropped shell services) then Panix. No cable, no DNS wierdness - just dial-up into a Unix shell account running Pine. And my question was - recently (last couple of months) it has taken several *hours* (not 10 minutes) for a post I make to classicmp to be 'visible' on my mail stream. And it was just a curious question - this is a *hobby*, not real-time-chat, or a stock-quote service... it really doesn't matter much, unless someone posts a Juicy Bit that I really want, and by the time my generous offer hits the System... no one can even remember what I'm talking about... ;{} So before the chorus of disapproval clucking swells into mob violence, that's what I (and others, it would seem - Marvin Johnston for instance) have notices. No criticism, no sniping, just curious. Cheers John From cb at mythtech.net Fri Oct 10 10:10:30 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:25 2005 Subject: Help! need 400k/800k Mac os 6 or 7 diskettes! Message-ID: >Was there such a thing as an external 1.44 drive? If there was >could my SE use it? Yes, and maybe. The ROMS in the SE dictate that it can't use more than an 800k drive. So a standard external 1.4 drive will still only operate as an 800k drive in an SE that doesn't have the newer FDHD roms (if it works at all). However, I do believe there were drives that had special drivers that let the SE use 1.4 disks. I'm just not sure of brands or availability. -chris From teoz at neo.rr.com Fri Oct 10 10:22:41 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:25 2005 Subject: Help! need 400k/800k Mac os 6 or 7 diskettes! References: Message-ID: <003801c38f42$5c074660$3d7ca418@neo.rr.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Hudson" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Friday, October 10, 2003 9:08 AM Subject: Re: Help! need 400k/800k Mac os 6 or 7 diskettes! > > On Thursday, October 9, 2003, at 07:13 PM, TeoZ wrote: > > System 7 (or 7.1) disks on Double Density floppies (800k): > > Macintosh Networking Basics > > System 7 Tuneup > > Before you install system 7 > > Install 1 > > Install 2 > > Install 3 > > Printing > > Fonts > > Tidbits > > More Tidbits > > If the person who has the SE needs a copy of these disks (I have a > > number of > > 68k macs that can copy these floppies correctly) he can send me blank > > disks > > and I will mail them back copied. > > Let's Talk offline --- :^) Someone is mailing me system 6 > and that's probably what I will install at first. It's running > 7.1 (incomplete) right now, 10 disks? > > > If the person can use disk images on their > > own 68k mac I can make images and email them out. > > Can't, My SE is not net-connected. > > > > I did notice there isnt a > > disk tools disk listed on the 800k set but I am sure it can be > > downloaded > > from apples site, or a 3rd party util can be used (LIDO 7.56). > > > > System 6.03, 6.05, 6.08 in 800k images can be found here: > > http://www.info.apple.com/support/oldersoftwarelist.html > > > > If the person needs these images dumped to disk I can do that also if > > blanks > > are sent to me ( I am out of 800k floppies since my amiga, atari st, > > IIgs > > have sucked them all down in the last month, time to find some more). > > > > Hope this helps. > > > > TZ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let me know if you need 7.x if 6.x doesnt work out. From cb at mythtech.net Fri Oct 10 10:24:16 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:25 2005 Subject: 5.25" floppies available Message-ID: I've got a large pile of 5.25" floppies available. These seem to have no resale value on ebay, so I'm offering them here. I've got some that are labeled as HD, some as DD, and a huge pile that are not labeled at all (which I know some are HD and some DD). All the disks are used, and most have labels with writing on them. Some have multiple lables stacked up, some have write protect tabs. Just about all have sleeves (I noticed 3 or 4 while sorting that didn't). Some may get bulk erased before they are sent out, but most will be left in whatever state they are in (if you have some amazing interest in reading market research reports on products from 10 years ago, then this is your chance) If anyone wants some, tell me how many you want, and where you want them sent. All I'm asking for is postage + $1.00. For that price, you can have as many of whatever kind you want (up to the max number I have, which I don't yet know as the pile is still growing). -chris From cb at mythtech.net Fri Oct 10 10:28:11 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:25 2005 Subject: Box of assorted chips available Message-ID: I've got two small boxes of assorted chips available. I have NO idea what all they are. They are just random pulls from motherboards and cards and things like that. There may be CPUs, or bios, or cache, or ram, or FPU, or who knows what. Nothing is of the "current" genre, that's why I'm offering them here (almost all should be 486 or earlier era stuff, with lots being 286 era). Not all the chips are in great shape, and none have been carefully handled or packed. They have all just been tosed into two Priority Mail video tape boxes. So pins might be bent or otherwise damaged. If anyone wants them, just cover the postage (plus my buck for gas/paypal). -chris From cb at mythtech.net Fri Oct 10 10:34:05 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:25 2005 Subject: Last call: 7" 9 track reel tapes Message-ID: Last call on 7" 9 track reel to reel tapes. They are labeled as "Endura 800 BPI to 6250 CPI BASF". All have data on them, none will be erased before shipping. I have 3 cases of 24 left. A case is $8.00 to mail in the USA via Media Mail rate. I had been asking $10.00 for a case plus shipping ($18.00 total for 24 tapes, so less then a buck a tape). If I get no takers, they are going in the trash, so I'm open to offers on their sale price. And for you googlers that are going to see this posting 6 years from now and ask... this is dated 10/10/03, and the tapes will be in the garbage by 10/13/03... so if you are reading too much later than that, don't bother asking, they are already gone. -chris From allain at panix.com Fri Oct 10 10:40:42 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:25 2005 Subject: Posting propagation delays References: <10310100610.ZM23984@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com><008901c38f2e$68c95b40$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <01df01c38f44$dd90ac60$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > And my question was - recently (last couple of months) it > has taken several *hours* (not 10 minutes) for a post I make > to classicmp to be 'visible' on my mail stream. There was a cartoon in the NYT this Sunday... And I mean it to be relevant here, where there might be no other good explanation... Maybe it's time to to add your name to the Federal Do-Not-Wiretap list. John A. 10 minute delay only. From jwest at classiccmp.org Fri Oct 10 10:44:49 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:25 2005 Subject: Posting propagation delays References: <10310100610.ZM23984@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com><008901c38f2e$68c95b40$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <01b901c38f45$70c3c760$033310ac@kwcorp.com> It was written... > So before the chorus of disapproval clucking swells into mob violence, > that's what I (and others, it would seem - Marvin Johnston for instance) > have notices. No criticism, no sniping, just curious. Didn't mean that to come across as a slam. I just had a minor stress fracture this morning due to way too many overcomittments on my part (non-list related). My apologies! A better way to phrase it would be... "I know there are some issues with Sendmail performance on the classiccmp mail server. It will take me longer than it should to get around to fixing them, but rest assured I know about them and I'll get to it!" :) Jay --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From classiccmp at crash.com Fri Oct 10 12:04:42 2003 From: classiccmp at crash.com (Steven M Jones) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:25 2005 Subject: Multi-CPU Qbus VAXen Message-ID: <200310101704.h9AH4ge32450@abort.crash.com> Alex White wrote: > > I've been planning a monster like this, 4 small backplanes mounted > in a hacked-around wide cabinet, 4 processors running as a VAXcluster > over Ethernet... Been done before? If you're running them as a LAVC (Local Area VAXCluster, used to be any cluster using Ethernet instead of CI) then this was done all the time and I'm sure still is. They probably haven't called them LAVC's for years and years, though. If you're saying you're going to interconnect the backplanes per the discussion here and in MicroNote #26, then if people did it it was a not a very common thing. And as others have pointed out, the normal OS candidates won't have support for it. That's not a reason to stop the project, just be aware of the necessary effort. --S. From collectionsale at quicknet.nl Fri Oct 10 12:19:03 2003 From: collectionsale at quicknet.nl (Collection 4 Sale) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:25 2005 Subject: Vintage collection for sale Message-ID: <009201c38f52$9a57a030$8e21fea9@sergej> Please see http://www.fossilicon.com/collectionsale for details and pictures thanks, Sergej From arcarlini at iee.org Fri Oct 10 13:03:40 2003 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:25 2005 Subject: Multi-CPU Qbus VAXen In-Reply-To: <200310101019.50843.meltie@meltie.com> Message-ID: <003301c38f58$d5dc3b60$5b01a8c0@athlon> > I've been planning a monster like this, 4 small backplanes > mounted in a > hacked-around wide cabinet, 4 processors running as a VAXcluster over > Ethernet... If you mean 4-way multiprocessing, then 2-way was almost certainly done at some time (probably in DECwest). I'm not sure 4-way is practical, at least not with 4 backplanes. If you want them all in one backplane you probably have to remove (or otherwise inhibit) the bus terminating resistors on 3 of the processors. As others have pointed out, it doesn't really get you anywhere since there is no real shared memory between the processors (they could each have their own via PMI or they could all share some Qbus memory - neither is an appealing option). You would also have the minor problem that no OS would be able to do much with the slave processors. (In fact, I think all the Oses I know of probably wouldn't even notice them, so they would probably boot as though they were on a MicroVAX II (or III if you used KA65x processors). If OTOH you meant 4 separate BA23 boxes each with its own processor all in a VAXcluster, then that's just independent MicroVAXes ... I had racks like that in the lab at DEC. But that's less exciting than pushing the boundaries I guess. You don't need a hacked cab, just an ordinary 19" rack will do ... I kept back-to-back VAX 4000s or MicroVAX IIIs in the bottom to save space and make *absolutely* sure the rack could not be tipped :-) Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From jwest at classiccmp.org Fri Oct 10 13:14:42 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:25 2005 Subject: TinyC, port to HP Message-ID: <006b01c38f5a$60b7e940$033310ac@kwcorp.com> I am looking for full source code for a *VERY* tiny C compiler written in any common assembly language. I'm much more concerned with size of the compiler than functionality/features. Can anyone suggest one or know where the source might by laying around? I thought I had heard ages ago about some microcomputer C compilers being well under 32K. As to how this relates to classiccmp... well.. *blush* I'm actually thinking of porting C to the HP2100. The whole thing has to fit in 32K of ram, including drivers, etc. Not sure what OS it will be placed on, perhaps HP-IPL/OS. Might make a simple native OS for it or might even make it standalone, not sure yet. Did I recently post about being overcomitted? heh Jay --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From emu at ecubics.com Fri Oct 10 13:28:55 2003 From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:25 2005 Subject: Multi-CPU Qbus VAXen In-Reply-To: <200310101019.50843.meltie@meltie.com> References: <200310081836.h98Iahe23050@abort.crash.com> <3F8468DD.20302@ecubics.com> <200310101019.50843.meltie@meltie.com> Message-ID: <3F86FA67.4020600@ecubics.com> Alex White wrote: >>Check the note again. AFAIRC, this (ka630, ka650, ...) had just a >>"mailbox" register to communicate, and only one cpu had access to the >>qbus. The other ones had the qbus interface shut down. So, if you didn't >>have you special backplane with 4 qbuses, it was pretty limited ... > > I've been planning a monster like this, 4 small backplanes mounted in a > hacked-around wide cabinet, 4 processors running as a VAXcluster over > Ethernet... Why bother doing you own backplanes, if you use ethernet anyway ? If you're thinking about you own box (doing your own backplane), try to use four ka655 with 64 mbyte memory each and 4 mbyte shared memory on the qbus. But again, probably no software :( From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Oct 10 13:56:15 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:25 2005 Subject: TinyC, port to HP In-Reply-To: <006b01c38f5a$60b7e940$033310ac@kwcorp.com> References: <006b01c38f5a$60b7e940$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <20031010114619.B61451@newshell.lmi.net> On Fri, 10 Oct 2003, Jay West wrote: > I am looking for full source code for a *VERY* tiny C compiler written in > any common assembly language. I'm much more concerned with size of the > compiler than functionality/features. Can anyone suggest one or know where > the source might by laying around? I thought I had heard ages ago about some > microcomputer C compilers being well under 32K. Hmmmm. Not sure of the parameters, but take a look at "Small C" by James Hendrix, published by DDJ. There were several C compilers that ran on CP/M, where the TPA is no more than twice the size that you want. Those included Aztec/Manx, and BDS C by Leor Zolman - didn't he recently release it into public domain? IIRC, BDS C did not have floating point support; but you're better off without that anyway. From arcarlini at iee.org Fri Oct 10 14:01:48 2003 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:25 2005 Subject: Multi-CPU Qbus VAXen In-Reply-To: <200310101704.h9AH4ge32450@abort.crash.com> Message-ID: <003501c38f60$f7010f20$5b01a8c0@athlon> > If you're running them as a LAVC (Local Area VAXCluster, used > to be any cluster using Ethernet instead of CI) then this was > done all the time and I'm sure still is. They probably > haven't called them LAVC's for years and years, though. Which reminds me, when the extension to ethernet clusters was first cooked up they were going to call it Local Area Vaxcluster, and obviously shorten it to LAV. Luckily someone in the UK suggested that "I'm just setting up a JOHN" is how it would get parsed over here and the name sprouted a new capital letter. Now back to weird ways of reducing MicroVAX performance ... Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Fri Oct 10 14:00:32 2003 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:25 2005 Subject: TinyC, port to HP References: <006b01c38f5a$60b7e940$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <3F8701D0.7080904@jetnet.ab.ca> Jay West wrote: > I am looking for full source code for a *VERY* tiny C compiler written in > any common assembly language. I'm much more concerned with size of the > compiler than functionality/features. Can anyone suggest one or know where > the source might by laying around? I thought I had heard ages ago about some > microcomputer C compilers being well under 32K. > > As to how this relates to classiccmp... well.. *blush* I'm actually thinking > of porting C to the HP2100. The whole thing has to fit in 32K of ram, > including drivers, etc. Not sure what OS it will be placed on, perhaps > HP-IPL/OS. Might make a simple native OS for it or might even make it > standalone, not sure yet. C requires a stack pointer and a index register.Offhand I don't think your hardware supports that. The Honeywell H316 had a high level langauge PL516 that might be easyier to port. http://www.series16.adrianwise.co.uk/ The PDP-8 is said to have a pascal compiler, that may be another idea. Ben. From jcwren at jcwren.com Fri Oct 10 14:20:55 2003 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:25 2005 Subject: TinyC, port to HP In-Reply-To: <006b01c38f5a$60b7e940$033310ac@kwcorp.com> References: <006b01c38f5a$60b7e940$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <200310101520.55905.jcwren@jcwren.com> A number of C compilers on small architectures have solved this problem by having 2, sometimes 4, distinct compiling phases, and passing data through temporary files. This gives you a lot more leeway in code space. I've seen preprocessor pass, tokenization pass, code generator pass, and in some cases, the 4th pass is the assembler (which I generally prefer over direct-to-assembly, since you can insert a user-written processing phase if you want to get funky). --John On Friday 10 October 2003 14:14 pm, Jay West wrote: > I am looking for full source code for a *VERY* tiny C compiler written in > any common assembly language. I'm much more concerned with size of the > compiler than functionality/features. Can anyone suggest one or know where > the source might by laying around? I thought I had heard ages ago about > some microcomputer C compilers being well under 32K. > > As to how this relates to classiccmp... well.. *blush* I'm actually > thinking of porting C to the HP2100. The whole thing has to fit in 32K of > ram, including drivers, etc. Not sure what OS it will be placed on, perhaps > HP-IPL/OS. Might make a simple native OS for it or might even make it > standalone, not sure yet. > > Did I recently post about being overcomitted? heh > > Jay > > --- > [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From chd_1 at nktelco.net Fri Oct 10 14:25:01 2003 From: chd_1 at nktelco.net (Charles H. Dickman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:25 2005 Subject: LK201 key stuck In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3F87078D.8090704@nktelco.net> Tony Duell wrote: >>I have been working on a DEC Pro 380 and the LK201 keyboard I have >>causes the Pro to report a stuck key and hang. So I opened up the >>keyboard thinking I could clean out whatever had jammed in there. >> >> >The clear plastic part is in 3 layers. The top layer has conductive >traces on the bottom surface. Then there's an insulating sheet with a >hole under each key (and no traces). And the bottom layer has traces on >the top surface. There are circular pads on the ends of the traces under >each key, over the holes in the insulator. > I got it to work, but I was very lucky. The key that was stuck was F10; top row on the open end of the plastic layers. I slid a piece of cardstock in between the contacts and no more stuck key. So the DEC Pro gets through the diagnostics, boots, and enters the VAX console program... Now if it was only connected to an actual VAX. >-tony > > -chuck From jwest at classiccmp.org Fri Oct 10 14:31:59 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:25 2005 Subject: TinyC, port to HP References: <006b01c38f5a$60b7e940$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <3F8701D0.7080904@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <00f501c38f65$2c576620$033310ac@kwcorp.com> It was written.... > C requires a stack pointer and a index register.Offhand I don't think > your hardware supports that. I don't see why that couldn't be implemented in software, or simply put into custom microcode for the 2100. However, in actuality, I will likely be doing this (If I take up the project) on a 21MX/E. Jay West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Fri Oct 10 14:33:26 2003 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:25 2005 Subject: TinyC, port to HP References: <006b01c38f5a$60b7e940$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <200310101520.55905.jcwren@jcwren.com> Message-ID: <3F870986.3080106@jetnet.ab.ca> J.C. Wren wrote: > A number of C compilers on small architectures have solved this problem by > having 2, sometimes 4, distinct compiling phases, and passing data through > temporary files. This gives you a lot more leeway in code space. I've seen > preprocessor pass, tokenization pass, code generator pass, and in some cases, > the 4th pass is the assembler (which I generally prefer over > direct-to-assembly, since you can insert a user-written processing phase if > you want to get funky). Most of the C-compliers I have seen for 8 bit machines, tend to cross compile from a PC. A PC is a far different machine with 32 meg and a hardisk, rather than 32k and paper tape like the HP could be. > --John > From eric at brouhaha.com Fri Oct 10 15:11:15 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:25 2005 Subject: Help! need 400k/800k Mac os 6 or 7 diskettes! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4584.4.20.168.238.1065816675.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> >>Was there such a thing as an external 1.44 drive? If there was >>could my SE use it? "chris" wrote: > The ROMS in the SE dictate that it can't use more than an 800k drive. So > a standard external 1.4 drive will still only operate as an 800k drive in > an SE that doesn't have the newer FDHD roms (if it works at all). It takes more than ROMs. The SE originally shipped with the original IWM floppy controller, which cannot handle MFM disk format (either 720K or 1440K floppies). To use the Apple Superdrive (FDHD) 1440K drive, you need BOTH the newer ROMs and the newer SWIM floppy controller. From rhudson at cnonline.net Fri Oct 10 15:23:11 2003 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:25 2005 Subject: What HP OS could it be?? Message-ID: <91B45B18-FB5F-11D7-955E-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> Ok HP experts out there One saturday my programming class in high school went on a field trip to Santa Clara University. We got to try out some of the minicomputers there. I asked the people who were with us if I could come back and use the computers any other time, they said "sure as long as you don't get in anyone's way", so for almost a year, in the dark morning hours I would go down and program in fortran.. using the card punches and seeing my output on the line printer. What OS was I running? Here's everything I remember: HP2100, Card Reader, Beehive CRT terminal, Line Printer, Flat-slip in horizontal cartridge disk drive/with fixed platter, Paper tape punch and reader, and a plotter The machine was in the engineering department of University of Santa Clara, in around 1976 Jobs were written in Algol or Fortran, and punched on cards. Job control cards had //somthing blah.... The boot loader was stored at (i think) 102077 (punch this in the switch register and hit run???) What was I using? From cb at mythtech.net Fri Oct 10 15:25:25 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:25 2005 Subject: Help! need 400k/800k Mac os 6 or 7 diskettes! Message-ID: >It takes more than ROMs. The SE originally shipped with the original >IWM floppy controller, which cannot handle MFM disk format (either 720K >or 1440K floppies). To use the Apple Superdrive (FDHD) 1440K drive, >you need BOTH the newer ROMs and the newer SWIM floppy controller. Then does that mean there weren't any 3rd party 1.4 drives that could be used on the 800k SE? I thought there were. Although maybe they were and used SCSI, or their drivers just had a way to get around the floppy controller short comings. -chris From esharpe at uswest.net Fri Oct 10 16:34:01 2003 From: esharpe at uswest.net (Ed Sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:25 2005 Subject: TinyC, port to HP References: <006b01c38f5a$60b7e940$033310ac@kwcorp.com><200310101520.55905.jcwren@jcwren.com> <3F870986.3080106@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <004401c38f76$392d7860$c417a3ac@aoldsl.net> no the hp can have a hard drive! ----- Original Message ----- From: "ben franchuk" To: ; "On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Friday, October 10, 2003 12:33 PM Subject: Re: TinyC, port to HP > J.C. Wren wrote: > > A number of C compilers on small architectures have solved this problem by > > having 2, sometimes 4, distinct compiling phases, and passing data through > > temporary files. This gives you a lot more leeway in code space. I've seen > > preprocessor pass, tokenization pass, code generator pass, and in some cases, > > the 4th pass is the assembler (which I generally prefer over > > direct-to-assembly, since you can insert a user-written processing phase if > > you want to get funky). > > Most of the C-compliers I have seen for 8 bit machines, tend to cross > compile from a PC. A PC is a far different machine with 32 meg and a > hardisk, rather than 32k and paper tape like the HP could be. > > > --John > > > > > > > From eric at brouhaha.com Fri Oct 10 15:35:33 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:25 2005 Subject: Multi-CPU Qbus VAXen In-Reply-To: <3F86FA67.4020600@ecubics.com> References: <200310081836.h98Iahe23050@abort.crash.com> <3F8468DD.20302@ecubics.com><200310101019.50843.meltie@meltie.com> <3F86FA67.4020600@ecubics.com> Message-ID: <4809.4.20.168.238.1065818133.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> "emanuel stiebler" wrote: > If you're thinking about you own box (doing your own backplane), try to > use four ka655 with 64 mbyte memory each and 4 mbyte shared memory on > the qbus. AFAIK, the KA650 and KA655 do not have the support for multiple processors on Qbus that was present in the KA630. The KA630 (MicroVAX II) had two features for this: 1) The bus interface could be configured to be a bus requester rather than the system bus arbiter. This has to be done on all CPUs other than the first. (Note that the VAX 11/780 was also capable of this, as discovered and exploited by George Goble). 2) Each processor has a "doorbell" register to allow other processors to interrupt it. From jwest at classiccmp.org Fri Oct 10 15:47:19 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:25 2005 Subject: What HP OS could it be?? References: <91B45B18-FB5F-11D7-955E-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> Message-ID: <014d01c38f6f$b2dbd8c0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> > What OS was I running? My initial guess was DOS, but I'd suspect HP's standalone RJE station with processing happening on a mainframe somewhere else. I actually seem to have a pretty extensive library of paper tapes and manuals for the standalone RJE system. > The boot loader was stored at (i think) 102077 (punch this in the > switch register and hit run???) 102077 is generally used as the T register display upon a "good halt", not a starting address. So when you ran the boot loader, if it loaded correctly, you would get a 102077. Jay West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From jwstephens at msm.umr.edu Fri Oct 10 15:54:06 2003 From: jwstephens at msm.umr.edu (jim) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:26 2005 Subject: TinyC, port to HP References: <006b01c38f5a$60b7e940$033310ac@kwcorp.com><200310101520.55905.jcwren@jcwren.com> <3F870986.3080106@jetnet.ab.ca> <004401c38f76$392d7860$c417a3ac@aoldsl.net> Message-ID: <3F871C6E.5A05A372@msm.umr.edu> > > > J.C. Wren wrote: > > > A number of C compilers on small architectures have solved this problem > by > > > having 2, sometimes 4, distinct compiling phases, and passing data > through > > > temporary files. This gives you a lot more leeway in code space. I've > seen > > > preprocessor pass, tokenization pass, code generator pass, and in some > cases, > > > the 4th pass is the assembler (which I generally prefer over > > > direct-to-assembly, since you can insert a user-written processing phase > I ported Hendrix tiny C from my Imsai (CP/M version 1.4 actually) to a mini computer that had no c support in the early 80's when it first came out. If I recall it came in two passes as mentioned, and then an assembly, then link. There was a c library support as well. I actually didn't to go assembly for the mini, but actually to an interpreted language like Java uses now. I think I had to implement around 30 opcodes total to implement the instructions used by the hendrix compiler. that means that of all the 8080 instructions that the original hendrix compiler emitted, there were only 30 total used. It supports a 16 bit address space natively, so would produce good code on your HP. A typical pass was as follows: run C0 on the c source run C1 on the result of C0 merge the source for the clib (which was earlier run thru C0 and C1) with this output of C1. Assemble the whole mess with an assembler that assembled to a relocatable module. take relocatable module, and use load command to suck into interpreter on target machine (which was written in assembly). I don't know about running in 32k. That probably would be tight to run the compiler. I think the full C lib was around 24k long, but it may have been smaller. Since i linked in the whole mess w/o any way to pick and choose what was used vs what was not, it was allways there regardless. A better linker and better way of merging in the clib could fix that. the machine I had had a symbolic assembler that was easy to gen up the assembler used here w/o any work so I didn't optimize that at all. As to optimization, you do have to do some duplicate elimination, but other than that, it produced pretty good code. most of the work on the hendrix c compiler was to the C1 pass, which emitted the 8080 instructions. I don't recall whether the Hendrix Tiny C was orignally for the 8080 / CP/M environment, or whether the published version was a port from some other environment, but the one I worked from ran on either CP/M 1.4 or 2 or 3x cpm's. the clib was pretty brain dead. Jim From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Oct 10 13:39:05 2003 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:26 2005 Subject: Am I seeing things? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20031006154709.007ba540@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <00b001c38c3d$d4fdc380$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20031010113821.02e65d90@pop-server.socal.rr.com> > I've replied to a couple of people looking for things and NONE of them >has ever responded so I seldom bother any more. > > Joe Did you reply to the person or the list? From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Fri Oct 10 16:23:38 2003 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:26 2005 Subject: TinyC, port to HP In-Reply-To: <006b01c38f5a$60b7e940$033310ac@kwcorp.com>; from jwest@classiccmp.org on Fri, Oct 10, 2003 at 20:14:42 %z References: <006b01c38f5a$60b7e940$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <20031010212338.GC350776@MrPomeroy2> On 2003.10.10 20:14 Jay West wrote: > I am looking for full source code for a *VERY* tiny C compiler The C compiler from UNIX Version 6? The PCC compiler from 2.9BSD UNIX? > Can anyone suggest one or know where > the source might by laying around? This stuff is available via http://www.tuhs.org/ go into the archive, PDP-11/Distributions/research/Dennis_v6 and PDP-11/Distributions/ucb/2.9BSD > I thought I had heard ages ago about some > microcomputer C compilers being well under 32K. This stuff (well, at least V6) was used on 16 bit machines with less then 64 kB of RAM. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From arcarlini at iee.org Fri Oct 10 16:47:05 2003 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:26 2005 Subject: Multi-CPU Qbus VAXen In-Reply-To: <4809.4.20.168.238.1065818133.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <003601c38f78$0c0a1260$5b01a8c0@athlon> > AFAIK, the KA650 and KA655 do not have the support for > multiple processors on Qbus that was present in the KA630. > The KA630 (MicroVAX II) had two features for this: > > 1) The bus interface could be configured to be a bus requester rather > than the system bus arbiter. This has to be done on all CPUs other > than the first. (Note that the VAX 11/780 was also capable of this, > as discovered and exploited by George Goble). It may be, as you say, that the KA65x cannot do this. The KA655 TM seems to be silent here - or at least it is in the sections I quickly read just now. The bus interface is handled by the CQBIC, but I don't have that particular manual handy right now. If the CQBIC can do this, then I expect that most of the CVAX MicroVAX 3000 Series machines can do it (and if it cannot, then presumably none of them can). > 2) Each processor has a "doorbell" register to allow other processors > to interrupt it. This I think it does have - at least it has a register called IPCR. I don't have the KA630 User Guide (*sniff* - someone must have one they can scan!) so I cannot compare terminology directly, but I think this is what the doorbell register is. Since I don't know of anything that uses it, finding example code to verify this may be somewhat hard! -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Oct 10 16:39:55 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:26 2005 Subject: Am I seeing things? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20031010113821.02e65d90@pop-server.socal.rr.com > References: <3.0.6.32.20031006154709.007ba540@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <00b001c38c3d$d4fdc380$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031010173955.007b9970@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 11:39 AM 10/10/03 -0700, you wrote: > >> I've replied to a couple of people looking for things and NONE of them >>has ever responded so I seldom bother any more. >> >> Joe > >Did you reply to the person or the list? Directly to the person and SOMETIMES to the list if it was relevent. Joe > > > From TRASH3 at splab.cas.neu.edu Fri Oct 10 17:04:17 2003 From: TRASH3 at splab.cas.neu.edu (TRASH3@splab.cas.neu.edu) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:26 2005 Subject: RZ26-E 1.05Gbyte SCSI Hard Drive Message-ID: <031010180417.1257c@splab.cas.neu.edu> Tried to send you email about where to get a drive, but access denied for mail. If you are still looking, contact me. Joe Heck From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Fri Oct 10 17:09:15 2003 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:26 2005 Subject: TinyC, port to HP References: <006b01c38f5a$60b7e940$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <3F8701D0.7080904@jetnet.ab.ca> <00f501c38f65$2c576620$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <3F872E0B.1020908@jetnet.ab.ca> Jay West wrote: > It was written.... > >>C requires a stack pointer and a index register.Offhand I don't think >>your hardware supports that. > > I don't see why that couldn't be implemented in software, or simply put into > custom microcode for the 2100. However, in actuality, I will likely be doing > this (If I take up the project) on a 21MX/E. Well the computer in the hand is worth two at e-bay. :) Since you have the hardware, good luck with the project. > Jay West > > --- > [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > > From dbetz at xlisper.mv.com Fri Oct 10 17:17:28 2003 From: dbetz at xlisper.mv.com (David Betz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:26 2005 Subject: TinyC, port to HP In-Reply-To: <3F871C6E.5A05A372@msm.umr.edu> Message-ID: <88AEFF2B-FB6F-11D7-88EE-0003937B82DA@xlisper.mv.com> Hendrix always seems to get the credit for Small C but the original compiler was written by Ron Cain and published in an early issue of Dr. Dobbs Journal. The earlier version by Ron Cain was quite a bit smaller than Hendrix version. On Friday, October 10, 2003, at 04:54 PM, jim wrote: > > > >> >>> J.C. Wren wrote: >>>> A number of C compilers on small architectures have solved this >>>> problem >> by >>>> having 2, sometimes 4, distinct compiling phases, and passing data >> through >>>> temporary files. This gives you a lot more leeway in code space. >>>> I've >> seen >>>> preprocessor pass, tokenization pass, code generator pass, and in >>>> some >> cases, >>>> the 4th pass is the assembler (which I generally prefer over >>>> direct-to-assembly, since you can insert a user-written processing >>>> phase >> > > I ported Hendrix tiny C from my Imsai (CP/M version 1.4 actually) to a > mini > computer that had no c support in the early 80's when it first came > out. > > If I recall it came in two passes as mentioned, and then an assembly, > then > link. > > There was a c library support as well. > > I actually didn't to go assembly for the mini, but actually to an > interpreted > language like Java uses now. I think I had to implement around 30 > opcodes > total to implement the instructions used by the hendrix compiler. > that means > that of all the 8080 instructions that the original hendrix compiler > emitted, > there > were only 30 total used. > > It supports a 16 bit address space natively, so would produce good > code on > your HP. > > A typical pass was as follows: > > run C0 on the c source > run C1 on the result of C0 > merge the source for the clib (which was earlier run thru C0 and C1) > with > this output of C1. > > Assemble the whole mess with an assembler that assembled to a > relocatable module. > > take relocatable module, and use load command to suck into interpreter > on target machine (which was written in assembly). > > I don't know about running in 32k. That probably would be tight to > run the compiler. I think the full C lib was around 24k long, but it > may > have been smaller. Since i linked in the whole mess w/o any way to > pick and choose what was used vs what was not, it was allways > there regardless. A better linker and better way of merging in the > clib could fix that. > > the machine I had had a symbolic assembler that was easy to gen up > the assembler used here w/o any work so I didn't optimize that at > all. > > As to optimization, you do have to do some duplicate elimination, > but other than that, it produced pretty good code. > > most of the work on the hendrix c compiler was to the C1 pass, > which emitted the 8080 instructions. I don't recall whether the > Hendrix Tiny C was orignally for the 8080 / CP/M environment, > or whether the published version was a port from some other > environment, but the one I worked from ran on either CP/M 1.4 > or 2 or 3x cpm's. the clib was pretty brain dead. > > Jim > From donm at cts.com Fri Oct 10 17:21:58 2003 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:26 2005 Subject: anyone notice this gorgeous piece? In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20031010100032.0422de78@mail.ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 10 Oct 2003, Tom Uban wrote: > At 10:16 AM 10/10/2003 +0100, Alex White wrote: > > >On Wednesday 08 Oct 2003 6:10 pm, Tom Uban wrote: > > > I also have a Fujitsu M2284K drive which has the tinted > > > plastic HDA cover, so that you can see the guts of the > > > 14" drive assembly. > > > > > > http://www.ubanproductions.com/m2284k.html > > > > > > --tom > > > > > > >Sweet, could you give me an insight into how the shock indicator works? > > > >alex/melt > > There are both tilt and shock style indicators. They are pretty simple > devices. I believe that the tilt ones just have a sticky surface and > some red particles which if tilted get stuck to the sticky surface in > order to indicate the tilted condition. The shock sensors are similar, > but must have some sort of membrane which ruptures, allowing the particles > to flow onto the sticky surface, or something. > > --tom > There was/is another variety that used a hard ball that was held in place on an indent by a spring. The spring was chosen such that an impact up to so many G's would retain the ball in position under a blow in a lateral (to the spring/ball axis) direction. The units could be used for either vertical or lateral shock sensing making allowance for the weight of the ball when used to sense vertical shock. Very crudely -------------\ W - indent o - ball - / - spring / / - don From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Oct 10 17:28:11 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:26 2005 Subject: Sota 386i card ? Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031010182811.007bb4a0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Found one of these in a scrap pile today. I'm thinking of stuffing it into my old PC to get a bit better performace without permanently altering the PC. Can anyone give me more information about it? What are the large connectors at the top and bottom of the card for? What is the PLCC socket for? Do I need drivers for the card? etc Joe PS I just noticed that even though they call it a 386i it actually has an intel 8086-2 CPU. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Oct 10 17:32:58 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:26 2005 Subject: CORRECTION: 386si card was: Sota 386i card ? Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031010183258.007ba930@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Oops! make that 386 SI not 386 I. Joe > >Found one of these in a scrap pile today. I'm thinking of stuffing it into my old PC to get a bit better performace without permanently altering the PC. Can anyone give me more information about it? What are the large connectors at the top and bottom of the card for? What is the PLCC socket for? Do I need drivers for the card? etc > > Joe > >PS I just noticed that even though they call it a 386i it actually has an intel 8086-2 CPU. From tothwolf at concentric.net Fri Oct 10 18:06:05 2003 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:26 2005 Subject: Googlers In-Reply-To: <10310100636.ZM24000@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <10310100636.ZM24000@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 10 Oct 2003, Pete Turnbull wrote: > On Oct 9, 22:16, Tothwolf wrote: > > > Or...maybe replacing the From: email address in the archive emails > > with the list email address hasn't worked as well as folks thought it > > might? > > Ah, does that mean I'm not the only person who doesn't like that? It > just looks wrong to me, putting some other address against my name, and > I'm sure that's part of the cause of so many non-subscriber replies > being sent to the list (I'm sure most are meant to go to the original > poster). I didn't care for it from the start, but I didn't mention it on-list because it was only supposed to be temporary. It seems like *tons* of emails that are meant to go to someone privately are ending up on the list because of the addresses being changes, which IMHO is a really bad thing...I don't know of any other email lists that are doing this, probably because of the type of problems we are having with it here. > The intent was to prevent address harvesting, but I'd prefer my address > was just obfuscated in some way (maybe split up). Wasn't the > address-replacing meant to be temporary, until a better way was found to > obfuscate the sender address? Actually, I don't care if it's not even > obfuscated, but I know others do. There are tons of ways to defeat harvesters. Some options include: * Obfuscate the address somehow. Two common methods are removing/ modifying non-alphanumeric characters ('@', '.', etc), and/or using HTML '&' escape sequences to create the address (not 100% reliable, but defeats a large number of harvesters). * Present a different (or no) From: email address depending on whether or not the person accessing the archive has authenticated themselves. * Create a MD5 hash of the email address and link it to a CGI script that resolves the hash into a real address via a database once some sort of authentication is done. * Replace the email address with an image and link it and/or the name of the sender to a CGI script that can authenticate the person, which once done will display the original email address and/or message in it's original form. Two fairly simple ways of authenticating the person are: * Authenticate the person with their mailman email address/password. * Ask the user to type in some disfigured text that is rendered in an image (to defeat OCR software). Both of these authentication types could be implemented, with the first having an option to store a long term cookie so the subscriber does not have to constantly re-enter their password. The second method could simply redirect the person to a generated URL that will expire after a set amount of time. Of course...maybe wpoison should be linked in somehow too? ;) ...And what is up with the new list software changing the To: address? "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" -Toth From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Fri Oct 10 17:44:28 2003 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:26 2005 Subject: TinyC, port to HP References: <88AEFF2B-FB6F-11D7-88EE-0003937B82DA@xlisper.mv.com> Message-ID: <3F87364C.7020902@jetnet.ab.ca> David Betz wrote: > Hendrix always seems to get the credit for Small C but the original > compiler was written by Ron Cain and published in an early issue of Dr. > Dobbs Journal. The earlier version by Ron Cain was quite a bit smaller > than Hendrix version. I found the original version easyier to understand and change. The Hendrix if remember right also had more copywrite protection than the original. I allways found it intersting that the 8080 instruction set had to used rather than the 8086 instruction set on the PC.The 8086 instruction set seems to Pascal rather than C based.I don't think C/UNIX would have developed as fast as it did if did not have a well designed machine like the PDP-11.(my only gripe is bytes are not 9 bits wide ) Ben. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Oct 10 17:01:52 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:26 2005 Subject: anyone notice this gorgeous piece? In-Reply-To: from "Vintage Computer Festival" at Oct 7, 3 09:26:22 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 462 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20031010/d4e99be7/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Oct 10 19:15:27 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:26 2005 Subject: ASR33 Teletype interfacing In-Reply-To: <1065732747.15567.62.camel@linux.local> from "Tom Jennings" at Oct 9, 3 01:52:27 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1737 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20031011/fca4cc4a/attachment.ksh From pat at purdueriots.com Fri Oct 10 19:41:38 2003 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:26 2005 Subject: Multi-CPU Qbus VAXen In-Reply-To: <4809.4.20.168.238.1065818133.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 10 Oct 2003, Eric Smith wrote: > 1) The bus interface could be configured to be a bus requester rather > than the system bus arbiter. This has to be done on all CPUs other > than the first. (Note that the VAX 11/780 was also capable of this, > as discovered and exploited by George Goble). Don't forget that Mike Marsh also was involved in this, and did most of the hardware work on the "Dual-VAX". As someone who has the pleasure of working for him, it seems like he doesn't really get enough credit for being the co-inventor of SMP Unix... Well, that's my $0.02 Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Oct 10 20:32:29 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:26 2005 Subject: Emulex/Persyst Mono II card ? Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031010213229.007d7d20@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I found this today in a pile of scrap. It appears to be an 8 bit ISA video card for a PC. I'm guessing it's for the monochrome video monitor. Does anyone know if it supports graphics or not, or anything else about it? I found this on the web.It has the jumper settings but little else. (This one does not have the parts for the printer port). Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Oct 10 20:38:44 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:26 2005 Subject: 12 bit S-100 memory card ???? Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031010213844.007f5c20@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Found this in a pile of scrap boards today. It looks like a S-100 memory board but has 2 banks of 12 memory chips. The chips are AM9016EPCs which I think are 16k x 1 DRAMS. Also there's no 5 volt regulator or address jumpers or switches. It appears to be a 32k x 12 bit memory card for a S-100 system that has built in 5 regulation and at a fix address. Anybody have any idea what system it's for? The only markings on the card are what looks like an overlapping C and H with the opening on the C facing down instead of to the right. The H is below and to the left of the C. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Oct 10 21:16:56 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:26 2005 Subject: intel 3621 specs? Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031010221656.007bfd90@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I found a pile of NOS intel D3621s today. I THINK these are Bipolar PROMs but I'm not sure and I can't find anything on them on my manuals or on the net. Can anyone help? BTW most of them are dated 1975. Joe From bill_mcdermith at yahoo.com Fri Oct 10 23:41:24 2003 From: bill_mcdermith at yahoo.com (Bill McDermith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:26 2005 Subject: What HP OS could it be?? In-Reply-To: <014d01c38f6f$b2dbd8c0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> References: <91B45B18-FB5F-11D7-955E-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> <014d01c38f6f$b2dbd8c0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <3F8789F4.1080703@yahoo.com> > > >>Ron Hudson wrote: >> >> >Jay West wrote: > > >>What OS was I running? >> >> >My initial guess was DOS, but I'd suspect HP's standalone RJE station with >processing happening on a mainframe somewhere else. I actually seem to have >a pretty extensive library of paper tapes and manuals for the standalone RJE >system. > Could also be RTE-II... 2100/79xx disk,etc. Had a batch/spool manager like DOS/DOS-M so you could spool cards from the card reader and print batch output on the LP. >The boot loader was stored at (i think) 102077 (punch this in the >switch register and hit run???) > > >102077 is generally used as the T register display upon a "good halt", not a >starting address. So when you ran the boot loader, if it loaded correctly, >you would get a 102077. > Right. That's the halt code -- actually, the 2100 displays the last instruction, which in this case is the halt instruction (1020xx)... Depending on how much core memory was in the machine, the boot loader started at x7700 octal, where x was set depending on the core size. For a 32K machine, x was 7 giving a starting program counter of 77700 for the paper tape reader boot and 77740 for the disk boot... (but you knew this part, Jay :-) >Jay West > > From eric at brouhaha.com Sat Oct 11 00:35:19 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:26 2005 Subject: 12 bit S-100 memory card ???? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20031010213844.007f5c20@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20031010213844.007f5c20@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <2062.4.20.168.158.1065850519.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Joe wrote: > Found this in a pile of scrap boards today. It looks like a S-100 > memory > board but has 2 banks of 12 memory chips. The chips are AM9016EPCs which I > think are 16k x 1 DRAMS. Also there's no 5 volt regulator or address > jumpers or switches. It appears to be a 32k x 12 bit memory card for a They may be physically arranged as two rows of 12, but it seems likely that theyd be wired as three banks of eight, making it a 48K DRAM board. Have you verified the data line wiring? From rhudson at cnonline.net Sat Oct 11 00:47:18 2003 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:26 2005 Subject: What HP OS could it be?? In-Reply-To: <3F8789F4.1080703@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <603AAF10-FBAE-11D7-A8FB-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> On Friday, October 10, 2003, at 11:41 PM, Bill McDermith wrote: >> >> >>> Ron Hudson wrote: >>> >> Jay West wrote: >> >>> What OS was I running? >>> >> My initial guess was DOS, but I'd suspect HP's standalone RJE station >> with >> processing happening on a mainframe somewhere else. I actually seem >> to have >> a pretty extensive library of paper tapes and manuals for the >> standalone RJE >> system. >> > Could also be RTE-II... 2100/79xx disk,etc. Had a batch/spool manager > like DOS/DOS-M > so you could spool cards from the card reader and print batch output > on the LP. Well the algol manual I used was HP's, The plotter library, hp. I don't think it was a remote job entry of any kind. > >> The boot loader was stored at (i think) 102077 (punch this in the >> switch register and hit run???) >> >> 102077 is generally used as the T register display upon a "good >> halt", not a >> starting address. So when you ran the boot loader, if it loaded >> correctly, >> you would get a 102077. >> > Right. That's the halt code -- actually, the 2100 displays the last > instruction, which in this > case is the halt instruction (1020xx)... > > Depending on how much core memory was in the machine, the boot loader > started at x7700 octal, where > x was set depending on the core size. For a 32K machine, x was 7 > giving a starting program counter > of 77700 for the paper tape reader boot and 77740 for the disk boot... > (but you knew this part, Jay :-) > >> Jay West >> There was a fatfinger that was about 30 "instructions" long, That read about a 3 foot paper tape, then that read the Hard drive... >> > From vcf at siconic.com Sat Oct 11 02:29:30 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:26 2005 Subject: VCF 6.0 is this weekend! Message-ID: Vintage Computer Festival Saturday, October 11 through Sunday, October 12 10am until 6pm Daily Computer History Museum 1401 N. Shoreline Blvd., Mountain View, California http://www.vintage.org/2003/main/ This is the last VCF 6.0 update. Be sure to come out to the Vintage Computer Festival this weekend or you will miss the best VCF ever! We've had some last minute schedule changes and additions to the speaker schedule. The schedule is as follows: Saturday, October 11 Time Speaker Topic -------- ------------------- -------------------------------------- 10:00 AM Evan Koblentz History of the PDA 11:00 AM Zbigniew Stachniak Microcomputing in Canada 1973-1983 11:30 AM Christine Finn Collecting the Collectors 12:00 PM Len Shustek Keynote Speech 12:30 PM Lynne & Bill Jolitz The Symmetric 375 and Berkeley Unix 1:00 PM Xerox Alto Panel Xerox Alto 30th Birthday Bash! Sunday, October 12 Time Speaker Topic -------- ------------------- -------------------------------------- 10:00 AM Joey Tuttle A Personal History of the IBM 5100 11:00 AM Forth Panel Using Forth with Vintage Computers 11:30 AM Todd Fischer IMSAI History & the New IMSAI Series 2 12:00 PM Jef Raskin The Humane Interface 12:30 PM Sellam Ismail VCF Shenanigans 1:00 PM Bruce Damer Joys and Trials of Computer Collecting The Xerox Alto panel has expanded, with Charles Simonyi, Peter Deutsch, and Dave Robson being added to the panel. This is going to be an incredible reunion of Xerox PARC luminaries, not to mention the amazing showing of numerous Xerox Alto and D-machines that are on display in the "Groove Lounge". Come help celebrate the 30th birthday of the Xerox Alto with cake and maybe even a deliciously nerdy birthday cheer. Also, be sure to make it to the Computer History Museum book sale on Saturday at 2:00pm. Museum members will be allowed advanced admission to the booksale before the rest of the public. More information about the book sale can be found here: http://www.computerhistory.org/events/vcf6/ Please check out the carpool message board in the VCF 6.0 BBS to see if there are folks in need of a ride that you may be able to accomodate. http://www.vintage.org/2003/main/bbs.php?directive=index:VCF60:CARPOOL:0 Here are directions to the Computer History Museum: http://www.vintage.org/2003/main/directions.php I'll see you at VCF 6.0! Best regards, Sellam Ismail Producer Vintage Computer Festival -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From ian_primus at yahoo.com Sat Oct 11 07:56:30 2003 From: ian_primus at yahoo.com (Ian Primus) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:26 2005 Subject: ASR33 Teletype interfacing In-Reply-To: <00a201c38e6e$ba39c200$317ecd80@chem.buffalo.edu> Message-ID: <559D6F64-FBEA-11D7-86CD-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> On Thursday, October 9, 2003, at 10:07 AM, James M. Walker wrote: > Hello, > as for the "Line or Local" issue, you stated that the local side worked > fine. As in when > you type on the keys it prints what you type. > > A rather simple test is to take a "fresh" 9 volt battery, find the two > "RX > lines and connect > them to the battery, with the TTY in line mode the basket should > quiet, if > it does, then > connect the keyboard leads between one side of the battery and the > "RX" line > and try > typing again. If that works then your interface is lacking in the > ability to > provide the > 20/60 MA required by the TTY. > > Jim > WB2FCN I found a 9 volt battery in my workshop, and tested it on a multimeter, and it came out to be 9.02 volts. Perfect! Then, I connected some scraps of telephone wire to the barrier strip on the teletype, and hooked the RX lines to the battery. It didn't help, so I switched the wires on the battery, and that worked. The teletype stopped "running open". Typing produced no effect. Then I unhooked one of the leads from the battery, twisted it together with one of the TX lines, and connected the other TX line to the radio battery. Once again, the teletype was quiet, and this time, typing produced output on the page. It looks like everything is working then, I just need to build an interface that supplies the proper loop current. While I had the battery connected, I typed three lines in Line mode to test it, then I switched over to local mode and typed a couple lines, to make sure that it did, in fact, still work in local mode. It did. But, when I turned off the teletype, and went to unhook the battery, it was hot! I unhooked the leads and tested it again on the multimeter - 8.07 volts. I had no idea that the teletype used that much power just for the current loop interface. 20mA isn't very much, but I guess for a little radio battery it is. At least I know now that the teletype works properly, now all I need is a better interface. Thanks for the help! Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com From ian_primus at yahoo.com Sat Oct 11 08:04:11 2003 From: ian_primus at yahoo.com (Ian Primus) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:26 2005 Subject: ASR33 Teletype interfacing In-Reply-To: <1065732747.15567.62.camel@linux.local> Message-ID: <67FFB9E5-FBEB-11D7-86CD-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> On Thursday, October 9, 2003, at 04:52 PM, Tom Jennings wrote: >> I have been attempting to get my ASR33 teletype connected to something >> and communicating, but so far I have not been successful. I have built >> the interface here : >> http://www.daedalus.co.nz/~don/computing/20mahack.html > > > It wont work, sorry... > Somehow I'm not surprised. Something told me that it was too simple to work properly. > Teletypes are inductive loads. Though they only want 20 mils, the > voltage needs to be high to get the initial magnet pull-in (basic RL > theory). ASR33 loops were generally run at 100V or so, but I run my > Model 28 at 14V, with non-perfect error rate, and I don't use the > keyboard. I take it that the voltage isn't that crucial, just the current? > The keyboard and printer are IN SERIES. If you hit keys while it's > printing you foul it up. Normal. What about on a full duplex machine? Is it the same, or are they separate? > Because it's inductive, it makes a spike when yuo turn the voltage off. > You need to suppress this with a diode, a resistor and capacitor, for > example. > > They're not subtle interfaces, and weren't meant to be. > > If you just want to print, you can rig up a power transistor, two > resistors, a diode, and a high-voltage DC power supply to do the trick, > and drive it from the serial port. > > If you want to receieve also, you can use another transistor and > resistor to pick off the change in loop current that happens when you > press keys which open the loop, and drive the serial port. > > I've done one of these fairly recently, and if poked with a > not-too-sharp stick, I'll scan the schematic and pu on my website. *poke* If it's not too much trouble, I'd like to see it. From what I have heard, there are lots of ways to do this, and i would be very interested to see how you did it. Thanks! Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com From bshannon at tiac.net Sat Oct 11 09:25:46 2003 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:26 2005 Subject: Erasing Eprom by using UV-Led References: <000c01c38eaa$01f62940$c3fdfea9@adrian> Message-ID: <3F8812EA.3050504@tiac.net> Hello Adrian, I used an LED I got at a Ham-fest, so I'm unsure of its exact model number. I beleive its made by Cree however, and it is a 'true' UV led with very little visible emission. I never measured the minimum time needed to erase the EPROM, I'd left it running overnight, so it was erased in about 12 hours, perhaps much less is needed. The LED was about 3 cm from the EPROM window. I have not tested other EPROM devices, but I easily can. I'll try a test with a 87C52 over the weekend. If you want a combined programmer and eraser, why not use FLASH chips rather than EPROM? Adrian Haunstetter wrote: >Hello Mr. Shannon, > >in the topic "A way to erase OTP components?" I read that you succeeded to erase windowed 27C512 using a UV-Led. >Because I'm about to build a combined Programmer/Eraser, where erasing shall be done with UV-Led, I like to ask you about your experiences. >What type of Led do you use? >How long do you need to erase? >What was the distance between Led and Chip? >Did you made Test with other devices? >I hope you take a little bit of your time to answer me. > >With best regards > >Adrian Haunstetter > From bshannon at tiac.net Sat Oct 11 09:28:40 2003 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:26 2005 Subject: Super Elf goes for over $300 References: Message-ID: <3F881398.2010707@tiac.net> I do, ok? Vintage Computer Festival wrote: >On Thu, 9 Oct 2003, Keys wrote: > >>http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2756553273 >> > >Um, John? > >I don't see how all these postings are relevant. > From bshannon at tiac.net Sat Oct 11 09:30:34 2003 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:26 2005 Subject: Super Elf goes for over $300 References: <007901c38edf$b3a2fbc0$4408dd40@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <3F88140A.4040107@tiac.net> I have often jumped into auctions posted to the list. Its easy to miss an interesting item on eBay and having someone call attention to a good item is a perfectly valid use for this list. Keys wrote: >Just letting folks see what some of the items are going for since that >questions pops up now and then when someone on the list is thinking about >buying or selling an item. Sorry for wasting your time but that is why I try >to state in the subject line what the message is about. I will refrain from >sending anymore to the list. >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Vintage Computer Festival" >To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > >Cc: "cctech@classiccmp" >Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2003 9:37 PM >Subject: Re: Super Elf goes for over $300 > > >>On Thu, 9 Oct 2003, Keys wrote: >> >>>http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2756553273 >>> >>Um, John? >> >>I don't see how all these postings are relevant. >> >>-- >> >>Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer >> >Festival > >>-------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >---- > >>International Man of Intrigue and Danger >> >http://www.vintage.org > >>[ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage >> >mputers ] > >>[ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at >> >http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > >> > > From bshannon at tiac.net Sat Oct 11 09:31:55 2003 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:26 2005 Subject: Super Elf goes for over $300 References: Message-ID: <3F88145B.6060205@tiac.net> Who's pissing who off here? Vintage Computer Festival wrote: >On Thu, 9 Oct 2003, Keys wrote: > >>Just letting folks see what some of the items are going for since that >>questions pops up now and then when someone on the list is thinking about >>buying or selling an item. Sorry for wasting your time but that is why I try >>to state in the subject line what the message is about. I will refrain from >>sending anymore to the list. >> > >I don't know. It just seems to me that if anyone actually wanted to see >what was happening on eBay they could just type in the URL themselves. > >The list is just pissing me off tonight. Stop it. > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Oct 11 11:03:37 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:26 2005 Subject: WTB: Pro-Log programmer parts Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031011120337.007db100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Hi all, I picked up a couple of Pro-Log M900, M920 and M980 programmers lately. I want to burn some BiPolar PROMs and I need a Pro-Log PM 9048 "Intel Generic" personality module. It will look something like this . I'm also looking for other Pro-Log parts and I have parts to trade so if you have anything that you're willing to part with send me a list. Here's more pictures on my Pro-Log stuff. No text or descriptions yet, just pictures. Joe From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat Oct 11 11:12:56 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:26 2005 Subject: 12 bit S-100 memory card ???? In-Reply-To: <2062.4.20.168.158.1065850519.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20031010213844.007f5c20@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <2062.4.20.168.158.1065850519.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <20031011091043.F84198@newshell.lmi.net> On Fri, 10 Oct 2003, Eric Smith wrote: > Joe wrote: > > Found this in a pile of scrap boards today. It looks like a S-100 > > memory > > board but has 2 banks of 12 memory chips. The chips are AM9016EPCs which I > > think are 16k x 1 DRAMS. Also there's no 5 volt regulator or address > > jumpers or switches. It appears to be a 32k x 12 bit memory card for a > They may be physically arranged as two rows of 12, but it seems likely > that theyd be wired as three banks of eight, making it a 48K DRAM board. > Have you verified the data line wiring? One of the earliest RAM cards that I had for my first 5150 used 12 chip rows, in order to provide ECC memory. "Boulder Creek Systems"? From waltje at pdp11.nl Sat Oct 11 12:19:26 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:26 2005 Subject: ASR33 Teletype interfacing In-Reply-To: <67FFB9E5-FBEB-11D7-86CD-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 11 Oct 2003, Ian Primus wrote: > > If you want to receieve also, you can use another transistor and > > resistor to pick off the change in loop current that happens when you > > press keys which open the loop, and drive the serial port. > > > > I've done one of these fairly recently, and if poked with a > > not-too-sharp stick, I'll scan the schematic and pu on my website. I found a 20mA interface schematic in my pile of docs.. I put it up on http://www.pdp11.nl/Hardware/20mA.pdf Cheers, Fred -- Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist Visit the VAXlab Project at http://www.pdp11.nl/VAXlab/ Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Sunnyvale, CA, USA From aek at spies.com Sat Oct 11 12:25:37 2003 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:26 2005 Subject: intel 3621 specs? Message-ID: <200310111725.h9BHPbAs000582@spies.com> 256*4 +------+ A6 |1 16| Vcc A5 |2 15| A7 A4 |3 14| CE2/ A3 |4 13| CE1/ A0 |5 12| O1 A1 |6 11| O2 A2 |7 10| O3 GND|8 9| O4 +------+ Signetics MMI TI Harris Raytheon AMD National Intel --------- --- -- ------ -------- --- -------- ----- TS 82S129 (50ns) 6301-1 24S10 7611-5 29661 27S21 74S287 3621 82S129A(27ns) 63S141 - 7611A - 27S21A - - From chejmw at acsu.buffalo.edu Sat Oct 11 12:52:36 2003 From: chejmw at acsu.buffalo.edu (James M. Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:26 2005 Subject: ASR33 Teletype interfacing References: <559D6F64-FBEA-11D7-86CD-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3F884364.2B4301A3@acsu.buffalo.edu> Hi Ian and list, Sorry there Ian, I should have mentioned that this technique is only for testing purposes and also that the battery gets "HOT". This is an old trick I used while doing field setups and testing of Shio-To-Shore sites that used ARQ and FEC with ASR-32/33 teletypes. The 20 MA loop can be connected to your interface as described previously. All that is needed is a 115v primary to 115 v secondary transformer, a full wave bridge to rectify the AC and around 35 - 60 uF cap for filtering. All this output is fed to the collector of an MJE-340 NPN transistor emitter, the collector connection goes to your ASR-(*) TTY. The base goes to the output from the tx terminals on the interface. I think I have an Orcad drawing of the circuit if you would like it. As I recall it is an RS-232 to 20 MA interface and also includes an opto-isolator in the circuit. However at least you did get to verify that your TTY is indeed working correctly! Good "Oh! Jim Real Radio in Buffalo Ian Primus wrote: > > On Thursday, October 9, 2003, at 10:07 AM, James M. Walker wrote: > > > Hello, > > as for the "Line or Local" issue, you stated that the local side worked > > fine. As in when > > you type on the keys it prints what you type. > > > > A rather simple test is to take a "fresh" 9 volt battery, find the two > > "RX > > lines and connect > > them to the battery, with the TTY in line mode the basket should > > quiet, if > > it does, then > > connect the keyboard leads between one side of the battery and the > > "RX" line > > and try > > typing again. If that works then your interface is lacking in the > > ability to > > provide the > > 20/60 MA required by the TTY. > > > > Jim > > WB2FCN > > I found a 9 volt battery in my workshop, and tested it on a multimeter, > and it came out to be 9.02 volts. Perfect! Then, I connected some > scraps of telephone wire to the barrier strip on the teletype, and > hooked the RX lines to the battery. It didn't help, so I switched the > wires on the battery, and that worked. The teletype stopped "running > open". Typing produced no effect. Then I unhooked one of the leads from > the battery, twisted it together with one of the TX lines, and > connected the other TX line to the radio battery. Once again, the > teletype was quiet, and this time, typing produced output on the page. > It looks like everything is working then, I just need to build an > interface that supplies the proper loop current. While I had the > battery connected, I typed three lines in Line mode to test it, then I > switched over to local mode and typed a couple lines, to make sure that > it did, in fact, still work in local mode. It did. But, when I turned > off the teletype, and went to unhook the battery, it was hot! I > unhooked the leads and tested it again on the multimeter - 8.07 volts. > I had no idea that the teletype used that much power just for the > current loop interface. 20mA isn't very much, but I guess for a little > radio battery it is. At least I know now that the teletype works > properly, now all I need is a better interface. Thanks for the help! > > Ian Primus > ian_primus@yahoo.com From chejmw at acsu.buffalo.edu Sat Oct 11 13:07:55 2003 From: chejmw at acsu.buffalo.edu (James M. Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:26 2005 Subject: WTB: Pro-Log programmer parts References: <3.0.6.32.20031011120337.007db100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3F8846FB.E683F2A2@acsu.buffalo.edu> Hi Joe and List, Nice photos, I own the Pro-Log 980 similar to the one in your photo. Nice unit easy to use, mine came with the UV eraser also, I am still looking for the full manual that describes it, the operation, and also all the adapters. Good Show! Jim WB2FCN Joe wrote: > > Hi all, > > I picked up a couple of Pro-Log M900, M920 and M980 programmers lately. > I want to burn some BiPolar PROMs and I need a Pro-Log PM 9048 "Intel > Generic" personality module. It will look something like this > . I'm also looking > for other Pro-Log parts and I have parts to trade so if you have anything > that you're willing to part with send me a list. Here's more pictures on > my Pro-Log stuff. No text or descriptions yet, just pictures. > > > Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Oct 11 13:12:29 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:26 2005 Subject: intel 3621 specs? In-Reply-To: <200310111725.h9BHPbAs000582@spies.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031011141229.007ec100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Thanks Al! I thought they were Biolar PROMs and I was hoping that they were compatible with the Harris 7611. (that's what's used for the boot ROMs in the HP 1000). Now I just need to find the "Intel Generic" plug-in for the Pro-Log programmer and I'm in business. Joe At 10:25 AM 10/11/03 -0700, you wrote: > >256*4 > +------+ >A6 |1 16| Vcc >A5 |2 15| A7 >A4 |3 14| CE2/ >A3 |4 13| CE1/ >A0 |5 12| O1 >A1 |6 11| O2 >A2 |7 10| O3 >GND|8 9| O4 > +------+ > > Signetics MMI TI Harris Raytheon AMD National Intel > --------- --- -- ------ -------- --- -------- ----- >TS 82S129 (50ns) 6301-1 24S10 7611-5 29661 27S21 74S287 3621 > 82S129A(27ns) 63S141 - 7611A - 27S21A - - > > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Oct 11 13:18:53 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:26 2005 Subject: ASR33 Teletype interfacing In-Reply-To: References: <67FFB9E5-FBEB-11D7-86CD-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031011141853.007ec760@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Fred, I tried to access the website and got an error stating that it could not be found. I tried to access the domain itself and I got an error stating that it's not configured yet and to try again later. Joe At 07:19 PM 10/11/03 +0200, you wrote: >On Sat, 11 Oct 2003, Ian Primus wrote: > >> > If you want to receieve also, you can use another transistor and >> > resistor to pick off the change in loop current that happens when you >> > press keys which open the loop, and drive the serial port. >> > >> > I've done one of these fairly recently, and if poked with a >> > not-too-sharp stick, I'll scan the schematic and pu on my website. > >I found a 20mA interface schematic in my pile of docs.. I put it >up on http://www.pdp11.nl/Hardware/20mA.pdf > >Cheers, > Fred >-- >Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist >Visit the VAXlab Project at http://www.pdp11.nl/VAXlab/ >Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ >Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Sunnyvale, CA, USA > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Oct 11 14:46:51 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:26 2005 Subject: ASR33 Teletype interfacing In-Reply-To: <559D6F64-FBEA-11D7-86CD-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> from "Ian Primus" at Oct 11, 3 08:56:30 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1049 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20031011/e0e6228f/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Oct 11 14:55:14 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:26 2005 Subject: intel 3621 specs? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20031010221656.007bfd90@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> from "Joe" at Oct 10, 3 10:16:56 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 749 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20031011/10d4a8f7/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Oct 11 14:35:05 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:26 2005 Subject: Acorn Econet In-Reply-To: <10310100723.ZM24034@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> from "Pete Turnbull" at Oct 10, 3 07:23:57 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 850 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20031011/e2957544/attachment.ksh From arcarlini at iee.org Sat Oct 11 15:33:32 2003 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:26 2005 Subject: ASR33 Teletype interfacing In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20031011141853.007ec760@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <003101c39036$f03c6730$5b01a8c0@athlon> Must have been a temporary blip, as it's there now. -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Joe > Sent: Saturday, October 11, 2003 7:19 PM > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Cc: waltje@pdp11.nl > Subject: Re: ASR33 Teletype interfacing > > > Fred, > > I tried to access the website and got an error stating that > it could not be found. I tried to access the domain itself > and I got an error stating that it's not configured yet and > to try again later. > > Joe > > > At 07:19 PM 10/11/03 +0200, you wrote: > >On Sat, 11 Oct 2003, Ian Primus wrote: > > > >> > If you want to receieve also, you can use another transistor and > >> > resistor to pick off the change in loop current that > happens when > >> > you press keys which open the loop, and drive the serial port. > >> > > >> > I've done one of these fairly recently, and if poked with a > >> > not-too-sharp stick, I'll scan the schematic and pu on > my website. > > > >I found a 20mA interface schematic in my pile of docs.. I > put it up on > >http://www.pdp11.nl/Hardware/20mA.pdf > > > >Cheers, > > Fred > >-- > >Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) > Collector/Archivist > >Visit the VAXlab Project at > http://www.pdp11.nl/VAXlab/ > >Visit the Archives at > http://www.pdp11.nl/ > >Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / > Sunnyvale, CA, USA > > > > > > From jimgeneva at earthlink.net Sat Oct 11 16:08:26 2003 From: jimgeneva at earthlink.net (James C. Geneva) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:26 2005 Subject: Apple IIe KB IC (AY-3600) datasheet requested. Message-ID: <3F887149.9A5CB3F4@earthlink.net> you know that this 40 pin chip was made by general instruments right? Jim From zmerch at 30below.com Sat Oct 11 16:54:38 2003 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:26 2005 Subject: Giveaway Schtuff Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20031011174315.00a85b98@mail.30below.com> AFAIK, everything's on topic, but if not, oops... Been doing more basement cleaning, and have some stuff for giveaway (with more to come). Cost: Cost of actual shipping. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-= MicroSoft Visual C++ Version 1.0 SDK manuals (all of 'em -- comes up about kneehigh to me!) - Cost could be prohibitive via UPS, but at least in the USA, Postal Service "Book Rate" should be affordable, even if it takes a while... =-=-=-=-=-=-=-= OS/2 Version 2.11 on 3.5" Floppy - Still Shrinkwrapped!!! Communication Manager/2 for OS/2 Version 1.1 - still shrinkwrapped, but one corner is 'torn' - you can tell it's never been opened, but the shrinkwrap has seen a few better days... ;-) =-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Atari 800xl (works) with another 800xl (parts, not tested...) This comes with some software, but I have no clue what... I believe I have power supplies (I found 4 so far, but not sure which ones are for the 800xl's... 1050 disk drive, CX-85 numerical keypad, XM-301 modem, and other assorted indescribabibbles... ;-) I can throw in a joystick or two, and I think I have a set of 'normal' paddles (not the ones that came with indy racing...) I'm still looking & sorting, so I dunno what else I have Atari 8-bit based, but you can get the whole lot for shipping... ;-) =-=-=-=-=-=-=-= That's all *for now* - anything not claimed in 7 days will be dumpstered or epayed - it's gotta go... Laterz, Roger "Merch" Merchberger From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Oct 11 17:06:16 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:27 2005 Subject: WTB: Pro-Log programmer parts In-Reply-To: <3F8846FB.E683F2A2@acsu.buffalo.edu> References: <3.0.6.32.20031011120337.007db100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031011180616.007ed620@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Jim, You're in luck. I have a User's Manual for the 980. I also have a 1979-1980 catalog that tells what adapters, personality modules and configurator modules are needed for various ICs. The 980 is newer than my catalog but according to it's manual you can use the various early adapters, etc it. I've offered to loan the manual and other docs to Al K to scan and post but I can make you a copy if you like. I'll be out of town for the next week so I won't be able to do it right away. What adapters, etc do you have for your 980? Joe At 02:07 PM 10/11/03 -0400, you wrote: >Hi Joe and List, >Nice photos, I own the Pro-Log 980 similar to the one in your photo. >Nice >unit easy to use, mine came with the UV eraser also, I am still looking >for the full manual that describes it, the operation, and also all the >adapters. >Good Show! > >Jim >WB2FCN > > >Joe wrote: >> >> Hi all, >> >> I picked up a couple of Pro-Log M900, M920 and M980 programmers lately. >> I want to burn some BiPolar PROMs and I need a Pro-Log PM 9048 "Intel >> Generic" personality module. It will look something like this >> . I'm also looking >> for other Pro-Log parts and I have parts to trade so if you have anything >> that you're willing to part with send me a list. Here's more pictures on >> my Pro-Log stuff. No text or descriptions yet, just pictures. >> >> >> Joe > From geoffr at zipcon.net Sat Oct 11 20:36:46 2003 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:27 2005 Subject: Xebec Apple II controller In-Reply-To: References: <10310100636.ZM24000@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.2.20031011183532.04984040@mail.zipcon.net> dug up an apple II that has a Xebec apple II controller init, is this a SCSI controller? or is it a SASI host interface that's gonna need an external SASI<->ST506 controller on it? From chejmw at acsu.buffalo.edu Sat Oct 11 21:50:48 2003 From: chejmw at acsu.buffalo.edu (James M. Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:27 2005 Subject: WTB: Pro-Log programmer parts References: <3.0.6.32.20031011120337.007db100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20031011180616.007ed620@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3F88C188.3AE73050@acsu.buffalo.edu> Hi Joe, No rush There Joe, after they are scanned is fine, someone might want to convert it to "PDF" and post it then! As for personality modules it came with the 2716 eprom adapter, model PM9052A and the eraser module is 9103A. I still use eproms for small projects, and thought this unit would be ideal for me as I also spend time erasing the EPROMS as well. I write control code for the INTEL microprocessors series starting with the 8080 and also their micro controllers like 8051 and 804(X) chips. Lots of room in them, however I hope to get the 2732/2764/27128/27256 as I also have lots of those as well. I wrote control code for the iSBC-8640 Board, it controls several radio repeaters on 2 meters and 70 cm, and talks to satellites on 2304 Mhz. No who-who just control code in assembly language. Simple small and fast. Thought I would go ahead and build the multi-bus to IDE interface and throw a couple of old <500 Mbyte drives on my systems to allow for updating code in the machine as opposed to on the development system. As for those I have the full blown Series II and a Series IV and the 86/330 system which runs iRMX-86, the others run ISIS, and have the in-circuit emulators for 8051/8085/8086. Wow I do tend to ramble. Cheerio and have a safe trip. Jim WB2FCN (I have to take some pictures of the computers and post them on my web-site) Joe wrote: > > Jim, > > You're in luck. I have a User's Manual for the 980. I also have a > 1979-1980 catalog that tells what adapters, personality modules and > configurator modules are needed for various ICs. The 980 is newer than my > catalog but according to it's manual you can use the various early > adapters, etc it. I've offered to loan the manual and other docs to Al K > to scan and post but I can make you a copy if you like. I'll be out of town > for the next week so I won't be able to do it right away. > > What adapters, etc do you have for your 980? > > Joe > > At 02:07 PM 10/11/03 -0400, you wrote: > >Hi Joe and List, > >Nice photos, I own the Pro-Log 980 similar to the one in your photo. > >Nice > >unit easy to use, mine came with the UV eraser also, I am still looking > >for the full manual that describes it, the operation, and also all the > >adapters. > >Good Show! > > > >Jim > >WB2FCN > > > > > >Joe wrote: > >> > >> Hi all, > >> > >> I picked up a couple of Pro-Log M900, M920 and M980 programmers lately. > >> I want to burn some BiPolar PROMs and I need a Pro-Log PM 9048 "Intel > >> Generic" personality module. It will look something like this > >> . I'm also looking > >> for other Pro-Log parts and I have parts to trade so if you have anything > >> that you're willing to part with send me a list. Here's more pictures on > >> my Pro-Log stuff. No text or descriptions yet, just pictures. > >> > >> > >> Joe > > From atreborz at execpc.com Sun Oct 12 10:09:03 2003 From: atreborz at execpc.com (Robert J. Stevens) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:27 2005 Subject: cctalk Digest, Vol 2, Issue 21 In-Reply-To: <200310111700.h9BH03H5067735@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <200310111700.h9BH03H5067735@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <3F896E8F.2000300@execpc.com> Message: 8 Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 12:03:37 -0400 From: Joe Subject: WTB: Pro-Log programmer parts To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031011120337.007db100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi all, I picked up a couple of Pro-Log M900, M920 and M980 programmers lately. I want to burn some BiPolar PROMs and I need a Pro-Log PM 9048 "Intel Generic" personality module. It will look something like this . I'm also looking for other Pro-Log parts and I have parts to trade so if you have anything that you're willing to part with send me a list. Here's more pictures on my Pro-Log stuff. No text or descriptions yet, just pictures. Joe Joe, Et Al; I have a Pro-Log M980 with a PM9080 Personality Module and two PA28-80B's and a PA40-80a also have the M304 RS232 Commnication Adaptor and a board marked "PROM PRGM SOCKET" with a 16 pin and a 24 Pin zip socket that plugs into an interfacecard [has two sets of 28 pin PIN's on back] but I dont have a board to plug it into. I need to find a GENERIC Module or a PM9059 for Intersil 82s123's. I hope someone out there can help. Bob in Wisconsin From ccmp at ovay.com Sun Oct 12 11:58:25 2003 From: ccmp at ovay.com (ccmp@ovay.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:27 2005 Subject: Moving- stuff must go Message-ID: <1065977905.3f898831dfe7e@192.168.1.10> Hello. I' in the process of moving, and the storage space I thought I had did not materialize, so... If there is anyone in the southeastern MA/RI area that can pick up some of these machines, they are yours for the taking (mostly Tandy 1000 and Apple stuff). They are located in Taunton, MA, but I can also bring them to Fall River, MA, where I now live. I only have about a week tops to get rid of this stuff. If anyone is interested but can't pick the stuff up in a week, I may be able to hold on to it for a short while longer. Unfortunately, I won't be able to ship anything at this time. You can view the list of stuff at http://www.ovay.com/list.txt and I'll be updating it when stuff goes. Email me at ccmp@ovay.com and I'll get back to you. Thanks so much for reading this. Marc Bileau From geneb at deltasoft.com Sun Oct 12 12:57:13 2003 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:27 2005 Subject: Interesting video board....free! Message-ID: In cleaning out some of my old stuff, I ran across a Diamond Stealth 64 PCI VGA card. What makes it interesting is that it's got a full size 15 pin d-sub connector instead of the 9 pin size, high density 15 pin d-sub connector. The chipset is an S3 Vision968. Anyone that's interested can have it for the cost of shipping. g. From jrasite at eoni.com Sun Oct 12 14:48:33 2003 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim Arnott) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:27 2005 Subject: Fwd: Non Tech - Selling electronics gizmos Message-ID: <3F89B011.1010607@eoni.com> From another list that I'm on..... -------- Original Message -------- Subject: [interceptors] Non Tech - Selling electronics gizmos Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 12:12:50 EDT From: one2dmax@aol.com Reply-To: interceptors@yahoogroups.com To: vmoatech@yahoogroups.com, vmoachat@yahoogroups.com, vmax@yahoogroups.com, vmaxmotorcycleridersclub@yahoogroups.com CC: fzxfazer@yahoogroups.com, interceptors@yahoogroups.com, vfrlist@yahoogroups.com, xjmotorcyclegroup@yahoogroups.com, jlaudiobass@yahoogroups.com Hello guys, I have a ton of electronic stuff and will probably never use it. There are hundreds of semiconductors, chips, diodes, ect... in the lot. I originally purchased the stuff for the storage containers. I'm sure some of this stuff has some value though and hopefully one of you has a need for this stuff and can make me a fair offer. Contact me off the list for pictures and offers. I have no idea what it is worth so try to be fair with me. I think some of it went to a training kit and other stuff goes to an auto repair kit as I had a manual that came with it. A partial list of what's there according to the labels on the drawers: Chips?: 555 Timer 741 Op-Amp 7402 4001 Quad 2 Input NOR 7400 4011 2 Input NAND 7404 HEX Invertor 74HC04 7411 3 Input Tripple AND 7445 Decoder 7447 7SGG Decoder 7475 Latch 7476 J-K 7404N 4n26 1406 1506 2112 ram 6808 74ls42 74s40 74123 7?126 74ls160 1408 74150 74141 74151 7442 7400 7402 2114 2240 2901 lm311 7403 7404 7474 75150 75154 301 4001 7408 741 op amp 7475 7476 74175 74193 7447 555 timer 7420 7432 7486 7490 74ls259 74ls266 7409 lm565 74ls27 74ls30 7495 74ls240 75452 1458 3n128 mosfet Others Diodes?: 1n4006 1n4732 910 GE 1n4148 1n4149 ST2 Diac 28/ 1n34 GE 1n5236B 5V Zener 1n4733 1n4734 5.6v Zen 1n4752 1n5230 4.7v 1n5234b 6.2v Zen Others I don't know what this stuff is?: 3904 npn 3906 pnp 2222a 2n4224 jfet 2n4403 5400 scr ecg265 t 106 d scr sc136 triac l m317 t lm 337 til 312 1738r others There is a lot of stuff that is unlabled and not in drawers. Also I have no way of guaranteeing what is in each drawer to verify the accuracy of the label. Again if you are interested I can take some pictures and send them to you. Thanks and Later, Sean and Sherry Morley Kansas Chapter Rep - Welcome to the VMOA! Member Number #1479 Our Website - Morley's MuscleCars and MuscleBikes *Yahoo! Groups Sponsor* Unsubscribe info: interceptors-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Interceptors home page: http://www.onelist.com/community/interceptors Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . From arcarlini at iee.org Sun Oct 12 16:44:10 2003 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:27 2005 Subject: Multi-CPU Qbus VAXen In-Reply-To: <200310081836.h98Iahe23050@abort.crash.com> Message-ID: <003101c39109$f8ecaf60$5b01a8c0@athlon> > That would be interesting - looking forward to comments from > Antonio and others about whether this is really possible... I *think* that, although only the 3520 and 3540 made it out as officially available systems, that you could in fact build up at least a 3560 and 3580 (i.e. up to four CPU boards yielding a total of 8 CPUs). That's just based on having seen something in the VMS Listings a long time ago. There was also a speed bump considered, and possibly built, which got as far as being allocated a system number, possibly along the lines of 38x0 (i.e. 3820, 3840 etc.) and that one had a tantalising 38A0 as a possible name IIRC. This speedup for the Firefox (codenamed Fastfox) never made it out of the door. I expect that multicpu workstations were just not in vogue at the time. I presume that the reason that the 3560 and 3580 were never marketted was down to performance scaling badly with inceasing number of cpus, or possibly there may have been a fatal problem (like the 3-CPU VAX 8300 variants occasionally locking up and the 4-CPU variant being pretty much guaranteed to lock during boot). Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From arcarlini at iee.org Sun Oct 12 16:49:23 2003 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:27 2005 Subject: VAX 8600 on ebay In-Reply-To: <200310081836.h98Iahe23050@abort.crash.com> Message-ID: <003201c3910a$b32eb8f0$5b01a8c0@athlon> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3051901405&category =1479 It does say "too large for pallet" so I guess you have been warned. This is really a souped-up ECL VAX-11/780, and I know that several of you are quite smitten by that vintage of machine. (sadly for me it's on the wrong side of the pond and has appeared just[1] before I become rich). Plenty of docs can be found on the net already, but no printsets (that I know of). Looks like this one might come with printsets (since it has maintenance docs) so would whoever buys it please get them scanned :-) Antonio [1] "just" here being measured on a geological time scale :-) -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From bpope at wordstock.com Sun Oct 12 19:39:55 2003 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:27 2005 Subject: Moving- stuff must go In-Reply-To: <1065977905.3f898831dfe7e@192.168.1.10> from "ccmp@ovay.com" at Oct 12, 03 12:58:25 pm Message-ID: <200310130039.UAA05860@wordstock.com> And thusly ccmp@ovay.com spake: > > > > Hello. I' in the process of moving, and the storage space I thought I had did > not materialize, so... > If there is anyone in the southeastern MA/RI area that can pick up some of > these machines, they are yours for the taking (mostly Tandy 1000 and Apple > stuff). They are located in Taunton, MA, but I can also bring them to Fall > River, MA, where I now live. I only have about a week tops to get rid of this Geez... You are supposed to move *closer* to Boston, not farther away! ;) I will get back to you... Cheers, Bryan P.S. I am in Belmont.. From jrasite at eoni.com Sun Oct 12 20:11:45 2003 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim Arnott) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:27 2005 Subject: Fwd: Non Tech - Selling electronics gizmos Message-ID: <3F89FBD1.2060008@eoni.com> From a motorcycle list that I'm on. Please respond to: one2dmax@aol.com Hello guys, I have a ton of electronic stuff and will probably never use it. There are hundreds of semiconductors, chips, diodes, ect... in the lot. I originally purchased the stuff for the storage containers. I'm sure some of this stuff has some value though and hopefully one of you has a need for this stuff and can make me a fair offer. Contact me off the list for pictures and offers. I have no idea what it is worth so try to be fair with me. I think some of it went to a training kit and other stuff goes to an auto repair kit as I had a manual that came with it. A partial list of what's there according to the labels on the drawers: Chips?: 555 Timer 741 Op-Amp 7402 4001 Quad 2 Input NOR 7400 4011 2 Input NAND 7404 HEX Invertor 74HC04 7411 3 Input Tripple AND 7445 Decoder 7447 7SGG Decoder 7475 Latch 7476 J-K 7404N 4n26 1406 1506 2112 ram 6808 74ls42 74s40 74123 7?126 74ls160 1408 74150 74141 74151 7442 7400 7402 2114 2240 2901 lm311 7403 7404 7474 75150 75154 301 4001 7408 741 op amp 7475 7476 74175 74193 7447 555 timer 7420 7432 7486 7490 74ls259 74ls266 7409 lm565 74ls27 74ls30 7495 74ls240 75452 1458 3n128 mosfet Others Diodes?: 1n4006 1n4732 910 GE 1n4148 1n4149 ST2 Diac 28/ 1n34 GE 1n5236B 5V Zener 1n4733 1n4734 5.6v Zen 1n4752 1n5230 4.7v 1n5234b 6.2v Zen Others I don't know what this stuff is?: 3904 npn 3906 pnp 2222a 2n4224 jfet 2n4403 5400 scr ecg265 t 106 d scr sc136 triac l m317 t lm 337 til 312 1738r others There is a lot of stuff that is unlabled and not in drawers. Also I have no way of guaranteeing what is in each drawer to verify the accuracy of the label. Again if you are interested I can take some pictures and send them to you. Thanks and Later, Sean and Sherry Morley Kansas Chapter Rep - Welcome to the VMOA! Member Number #1479 Our Website - Morley's MuscleCars and MuscleBikes From ian_primus at yahoo.com Sun Oct 12 21:01:21 2003 From: ian_primus at yahoo.com (Ian Primus) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:27 2005 Subject: ASR33 Teletype interfacing In-Reply-To: <3F884364.2B4301A3@acsu.buffalo.edu> Message-ID: <247D9773-FD21-11D7-8D99-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> On Saturday, October 11, 2003, at 01:52 PM, James M. Walker wrote: > Hi Ian and list, > Sorry there Ian, I should have mentioned that this technique is only > for testing purposes and also that the battery gets "HOT". This is an > old > trick I used while doing field setups and testing of Shio-To-Shore > sites > that used ARQ and FEC with ASR-32/33 teletypes. The 20 MA loop can be > connected to your interface as described previously. All that is needed > is a 115v primary to 115 v secondary transformer, a full wave bridge to > rectify the AC and around 35 - 60 uF cap for filtering. All this > output > is fed to the collector of an MJE-340 NPN transistor emitter, the > collector > connection goes to your ASR-(*) TTY. The base goes to the output from > the > tx terminals on the interface. I think I have an Orcad drawing of the > circuit if you would like it. As I recall it is an RS-232 to 20 MA > interface > and also includes an opto-isolator in the circuit. However at least you > did > get to verify that your TTY is indeed working correctly! Good "Oh! > Jim > Real Radio in Buffalo > I would definitely be interested in seeing your circuit. I am quite confused as to the proper way to go about doing this, from what I have seen, it looks like there are several quite different ways of doing what I want to do, and none of which I have been able to figure out thus far. That little thing I built with the resistor and the diode I somewhat understand, but then again, I also understand that it is _not_ a very good solution, and it looks like it might be dangerous to the computer if I wasn't careful. Electronics aren't my strong suit, although I am currently working on learning more. A friend and I are building a little computer based around the Z80 CPU, and I am actually beginning to understand memory decoding and addressing. But, analog electronics is something that I have done very little with, save for simple power supply repair and simple audio amplifiers. At the moment, 20mA current loops are over my head. Anything to help me understand what is going on here would be greatly appreciated. Also, yesterday I went to test the teletype again (I was cleaning the type cylinder), and I happened to turn it into Line mode, and it didn't run open like it had before. Then, I realized that the scraps of wire were still connected to the terminals, with one of the RX lines tied to one of the TX lines, and the other two wires were dangling, not connected to anything. Disconnecting the RX and TX lines caused it to run open again. Does this mean that the Teletype is supplying enough loop current to drive the selector magnet, or what? There seems to be forty different possible configurations for the teletype, and a the Teletype itself involves circuits and mechanisms that I don't understand. (IMHO, the ability to get that little cylinder to rotate and bang out the proper letter is amazing in itself, even more amazing is the fact that it's all done with levers and cams...) Once again, any help to clarify things would be greatly appreciated, one of these days I hope to be able to more fully comprehend these things... Thanks! Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com From david_comley at yahoo.com Sun Oct 12 21:04:38 2003 From: david_comley at yahoo.com (David Comley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:27 2005 Subject: WTB: Pro-Log programmer parts In-Reply-To: <3F8846FB.E683F2A2@acsu.buffalo.edu> Message-ID: <20031013020438.29300.qmail@web13508.mail.yahoo.com> I also own an M980 - minus documentation of course. Any chance Joe could be persuaded to put up a pdf of the manual somewhere ? I'd like to understand how that serial interface works. -Dave --- "James M. Walker" wrote: > Hi Joe and List, > Nice photos, I own the Pro-Log 980 similar to the > one in your photo. > Nice > unit easy to use, mine came with the UV eraser also, > I am still looking > for the full manual that describes it, the > operation, and also all the > adapters. > Good Show! > > Jim > WB2FCN > > > Joe wrote: > > > > Hi all, > > > > I picked up a couple of Pro-Log M900, M920 and > M980 programmers lately. > > I want to burn some BiPolar PROMs and I need a > Pro-Log PM 9048 "Intel > > Generic" personality module. It will look > something like this > > > . > I'm also looking > > for other Pro-Log parts and I have parts to trade > so if you have anything > > that you're willing to part with send me a list. > Here's more pictures on > > my Pro-Log stuff. No text or descriptions yet, > just pictures. > > > > > > Joe __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com From ian_primus at yahoo.com Sun Oct 12 21:39:50 2003 From: ian_primus at yahoo.com (Ian Primus) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:27 2005 Subject: Data I/O Series 22 EPROM Programmer help Message-ID: <84C81540-FD26-11D7-8D99-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> A friend and I are working on building a simple Z80 computer from scratch. We've got a pretty good start on it so far, but have run into a little snag - an EPROM programmer. I have an ancient Data I/O Series 22 programmer that I have been attempting to get working. I have the manual, and I managed to get it to power up. The power supply caps were limping, but they seem to have reformed while I was playing with it. I am now able to turn it on and have it come on properly every time. I can read devices into RAM fine, and I have (I think) successfully erased an EPROM with the built in UV eraser. (When I read the erased chip, the checksum is 0000). This programmer has an RS232 port on it, and I have attempted to connect it to a couple of different things. First, I tried connecting it to the Linux box in the workshop, and tried copying the data from ram to the serial port while I had a "cat /dev/ttyS1 > file" running. This produced no effect, other than a zero byte file. I connected a VT220 terminal, and have been able to control the programmer (to an extent) from the terminal. I can type the commands for copy, etc. But, the manual states that I should get some feedback on the terminal screen, as well as on the programmer's readout. So far, I have yet to see a single character come out of that programmer through the serial port. I know I have the baud rate, parity and stop bits set correctly. I even tried connecting my even more ancient Tektronix "doghouse" (German Shepherd sized) 'scope to the RS232 TX pin, and I haven't gotten a clear reading. Of course, my lack of a good reading is probably related to my lack of good probes, the ones I have are quick kludges with some old shielded coax cable, and are probably the electronic equivalent of pounding nails with a bowling ball (i.e. it works, kinda). Has anyone had any experience dealing with an EPROM programmer like this? What format is the data transferred in, and how can I communicate with the programmer from the computer. The manual is pretty cryptic about it, and mentions that the programmer is capable of sending and receiving data in no less than 20 formats, none of which seem like anything I have heard of before. What is the 'standard' method of transferring data two and from a serial EPROM programmer? Should I be able to see data on a terminal if I dump the data to the serial port, or is it in some non-ASCII format that the terminal (and Linux) can't render? I am lost here. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks! Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com From tothwolf at concentric.net Mon Oct 13 01:44:31 2003 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:27 2005 Subject: Data I/O Series 22 EPROM Programmer help In-Reply-To: <84C81540-FD26-11D7-8D99-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> References: <84C81540-FD26-11D7-8D99-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 12 Oct 2003, Ian Primus wrote: > I have an ancient Data I/O Series 22 programmer that I have been > attempting to get working. I have the manual, and I managed to get it to > power up. > I connected a VT220 terminal, and have been able to control the > programmer (to an extent) from the terminal. I can type the commands for > copy, etc. But, the manual states that I should get some feedback on the > terminal screen, as well as on the programmer's readout. Does the programmer want hardware flow control? > Has anyone had any experience dealing with an EPROM programmer like > this? What format is the data transferred in, and how can I communicate > with the programmer from the computer. The manual is pretty cryptic > about it, and mentions that the programmer is capable of sending and > receiving data in no less than 20 formats, none of which seem like > anything I have heard of before. The manual is probably referring to the format of the data you wish to program into a chip. I usually just use a raw binary format unless I need something else for some reason. > What is the 'standard' method of transferring data two and from a serial > EPROM programmer? Should I be able to see data on a terminal if I dump > the data to the serial port, or is it in some non-ASCII format that the > terminal (and Linux) can't render? I am lost here. Any suggestions would > be appreciated. There may not really be any one "standard" way of transferring data to/from programmers, but a common method is kermit with a terminal program on the host computer. -Toth From cctech at retro.co.za Mon Oct 13 02:28:30 2003 From: cctech at retro.co.za (Wouter de Waal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:27 2005 Subject: BBC Master stash Message-ID: <200310130728.JAA27572@ccii.co.za> Hi all I saved a whole stash of BBC stuff. Two Masters, one with the 80186 coprocessor. Four or maybe 5 disk drives (I think the 5th is a 3.5") Lots and lots of software and docs. Now, I'm not much into BBCs. Anyone out there who can use this stuff better than I can? (I do need a WD1770, but it's a bit OTT to strip a BBC to get one chip). Oh yes, and the catch -- I'm in Cape Town, South Africa. Wouter www.retro.co.za From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Oct 13 06:53:02 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:27 2005 Subject: WTB: Pro-Log programmer parts In-Reply-To: <20031013020438.29300.qmail@web13508.mail.yahoo.com> References: <3F8846FB.E683F2A2@acsu.buffalo.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031013075302.007d8720@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 07:04 PM 10/12/03 -0700, David Comley wrote: >I also own an M980 - minus documentation of course. >Any chance Joe could be persuaded to put up a pdf of >the manual somewhere ? I'd like to understand how that >serial interface works. > I have the User's manual for the M980, the User/Service manual for the M900 and some other intersting manuals and catalogs. I don't have a way to scan them and convert them to PDF but I'll loan them to anyone that wants to do that. I've already offered them to Al but haven't heard back from him about it. He may have enough to do already. Just a word of warning about the serial port. DON'T try to use the serial port on the box for RS-232. It's made for TTY current loop only. Strange as it sounds the parallel port is used for Rs-232 (as well as parallel interface and paper tape reader). You need the M304 adapter box to connect RS-232 to the parallel port on the M980. There's a different adapter box for the M900. I don't have that adapter but I do have the schematic for it and it's nothing but a few level converter circuits. Joe From ian_primus at yahoo.com Mon Oct 13 08:04:33 2003 From: ian_primus at yahoo.com (Ian Primus) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:27 2005 Subject: Data I/O Series 22 EPROM Programmer help In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Monday, October 13, 2003, at 02:44 AM, Tothwolf wrote: > On Sun, 12 Oct 2003, Ian Primus wrote: > >> I have an ancient Data I/O Series 22 programmer that I have been >> attempting to get working. I have the manual, and I managed to get it >> to >> power up. > >> I connected a VT220 terminal, and have been able to control the >> programmer (to an extent) from the terminal. I can type the commands >> for >> copy, etc. But, the manual states that I should get some feedback on >> the >> terminal screen, as well as on the programmer's readout. > > Does the programmer want hardware flow control? The manual indicates that hardware handshaking is an option. I have tried setting the terminal to "No Xoff", and have used different cables, including a 4 wire simple hardware handshake-less cable. >> Has anyone had any experience dealing with an EPROM programmer like >> this? What format is the data transferred in, and how can I >> communicate >> with the programmer from the computer. The manual is pretty cryptic >> about it, and mentions that the programmer is capable of sending and >> receiving data in no less than 20 formats, none of which seem like >> anything I have heard of before. > > The manual is probably referring to the format of the data you wish to > program into a chip. I usually just use a raw binary format unless I > need > something else for some reason. > >> What is the 'standard' method of transferring data two and from a >> serial >> EPROM programmer? Should I be able to see data on a terminal if I dump >> the data to the serial port, or is it in some non-ASCII format that >> the >> terminal (and Linux) can't render? I am lost here. Any suggestions >> would >> be appreciated. > > There may not really be any one "standard" way of transferring data > to/from > programmers, but a common method is kermit with a terminal program on > the > host computer. > > -Toth The more I tinker with this, the more I am suspecting a hardware problem. While trying to revive the power supply, I was measuring voltages that were pretty far off, all of them too low. Now, the power supply seems to have stabilized, and the voltages are consistently close to correct. They are a fuzz low, but it's within the specifications that the manual gives. (i.e. 15 volts is about 14.8 volts, but it's close enough). I measured voltages at the 1488 and 1489 chips, and they are just about what the data sheet says is nominal (Nominal is 9V, and -9v, I'm reading about 8.9v and -8.89v). But, from the looks of the solder and some residual flux on the top of the board, it almost looks like the 1488 has been replaced before. If this chip is bad, I would assume that it would prevent me from seeing any output, but the input would still work, since the 1489 is obviously functioning. If I feel adventurous later this afternoon, I think I am going to try to desolder the 1488 and replace it with a socket. I know I have another 1488 or two kicking around here, so I'll see if that does any good. Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com From dwoyciesjes at comcast.net Mon Oct 13 08:05:51 2003 From: dwoyciesjes at comcast.net (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:27 2005 Subject: Interesting video board....free! References: Message-ID: <3F8AA32F.F16088ED@comcast.net> Gene Buckle wrote: > > In cleaning out some of my old stuff, I ran across a Diamond Stealth 64 > PCI VGA card. What makes it interesting is that it's got a full size 15 > pin d-sub connector instead of the 9 pin size, high density 15 pin d-sub > connector. > > The chipset is an S3 Vision968. > > Anyone that's interested can have it for the cost of shipping. > > g. I wonder, was that in a Mac computer? IIRC, that's what Mac monitors use to have... -- --- Dave Woyciesjes --- ICQ# 905818 From frank at artair.com Fri Oct 10 11:40:39 2003 From: frank at artair.com (Frank Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:27 2005 Subject: ASR33 Teletype interfacing In-Reply-To: <1065732747.15567.62.camel@linux.local> References: <1065732747.15567.62.camel@linux.local> Message-ID: <40490000.1065804038@hoovers-59.hoovers.com> --On Thursday, October 09, 2003 13:52:27 -0700 Tom Jennings wrote: >> I have been attempting to get my ASR33 teletype connected to something >> and communicating, but so far I have not been successful. I have built >> the interface here : >> http://www.daedalus.co.nz/~don/computing/20mahack.html > > > It wont work, sorry... > > Teletypes are inductive loads. Though they only want 20 mils, the > voltage needs to be high to get the initial magnet pull-in (basic RL > theory). ASR33 loops were generally run at 100V or so, but I run my > Model 28 at 14V, with non-perfect error rate, and I don't use the > keyboard. > > The keyboard and printer are IN SERIES. If you hit keys while it's > printing you foul it up. Normal. > > Because it's inductive, it makes a spike when yuo turn the voltage off. > You need to suppress this with a diode, a resistor and capacitor, for > example. > > They're not subtle interfaces, and weren't meant to be. > > If you just want to print, you can rig up a power transistor, two > resistors, a diode, and a high-voltage DC power supply to do the trick, > and drive it from the serial port. > > If you want to receieve also, you can use another transistor and > resistor to pick off the change in loop current that happens when you > press keys which open the loop, and drive the serial port. > > I've done one of these fairly recently, and if poked with a > not-too-sharp stick, I'll scan the schematic and pu on my website. For the time and/or solder impaired, you can buy RS232 <-> current loop converters. I bought one from B&B Electronics when I needed one quickly, but there are probably other (and possibly cheaper) places that sell them also. Frank From scott at californiasystem.com Fri Oct 10 12:25:53 2003 From: scott at californiasystem.com (scott@californiasystem.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:27 2005 Subject: Manual for GTSC 304 Message-ID: <002601c38f53$8f24d880$0300a8c0@yourfn86qv5dxz> Hi Joe, I would like to get the entire manual for GTSC 304 new/old version if you still have them available. Thanks. Scott Yu California Systems 2650 Walnut Ave., Suite B Tustin, CA 92780 T: 714-832-5444 F: 714-832-5445 From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Fri Oct 10 13:48:12 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:27 2005 Subject: Posting propagation delays In-Reply-To: <10310100610.ZM23984@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctech-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Pete Turnbull > Sent: 10 October 2003 06:10 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: Posting propagation delays > > > On Oct 9, 22:24, John Lawson wrote: > > > > I am moderately curious why it is taking one to five (or more) > hours for > > posts to show up... manual moderation perhaps? If so, I don't envy > Jay > > for the task... > > > > But other than that... more than one person I know is experiencing > > these lengthy delays between 'send' and 'recieved'.. > > When did you post this one? The headers show when it passe through > each MTA along the way (in reverse order): > I've only just received this one and it's now 19:43 GMT on the 10th! Here are the headers with email addresses munged: Return-path: Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for witchy@######.demon.co.uk id 1A7ys2-0005bK-8o; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 18:36:58 +0000 Received: from [213.161.76.87] (helo=neptune.easily.co.uk) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1A7ys2-0005bK-8o for witchy@######.demon.co.uk; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 15:07:58 +0000 Received: from huey.classiccmp.org (huey.classiccmp.org [209.145.140.36]) by neptune.easily.co.uk (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9CC539AA3 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 16:07:47 +0100 (BST) Received: from huey.classiccmp.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by huey.classiccmp.org (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h9AF8nH6059804; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 10:08:49 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from cctech-bounces@classiccmp.org) Received: from he302war.uk.vianw.net (he302war.uk.vianw.net [195.102.244.165]) by huey.classiccmp.org (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h9A5T1H3056839 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 00:29:02 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from pete@##########.u-net.com) Received: from [62.172.27.116] (helo=mindy.dunnington.u-net.com) by he302war.uk.vianw.net with asmtp (Exim 3.22 #5) id 1A7pk1-0003IQ-00 for cctalk@classiccmp.org; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 06:23:05 +0100 Received: (from pete@localhost) by mindy.dunnington.u-net.com (8.12.9/8.12.9/PNT2.0) id h9A5AKjM023986 for cctalk@classiccmp.org; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 06:10:20 +0100 (BST) Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 06:10:20 +0100 (BST) From: Pete Turnbull Message-Id: <10310100610.ZM23984@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> In-Reply-To: John Lawson "Posting propagation delays" (Oct 9, 22:24) References: X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.3 08feb96 MediaMail) To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 08:37:55 -0500 Cc: Subject: Re: Posting propagation delays X-BeenThere: cctech@classiccmp.org From stargazer7247 at yahoo.com Fri Oct 10 14:37:11 2003 From: stargazer7247 at yahoo.com (Rhonda Dooley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:27 2005 Subject: IBM 5110 Message-ID: <20031010193711.27521.qmail@web41603.mail.yahoo.com> I am looking for information on an IBM 5110 computer system. In cleaning out a storage area at work, my boss discovered this computer. It was bought new in 1978 for $ 20,000 and worked the last time in operation. I am looking for information such as the current asking price for this vintage model. My boss is interested in selling this item (if you are interested). Any information would be greatly appreciated. Thank you. R. Dooley --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search From Bissonnette.Michel at ireq.ca Fri Oct 10 23:39:21 2003 From: Bissonnette.Michel at ireq.ca (Bissonnette, Michel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:27 2005 Subject: Re. HP64000, aka offering help to duplicate HP64K disquettes Message-ID: <48244C57852E2540A70B06F146BC5CE30B47D0@caracas.ireq.ca> Hi! I was brousing the web to see if something new on the web related to that good old HP 64000 beast. I collected HP64K related stuff since 6 years and I have about 60 Manuals titles and 40x 5 inches Floppy softwares disk for it. I Have been faced to the problem of preserving the files on those old originals Floppies. With the time I found a software for that usage and wrote a procedure to duplicates the diskettes with a PC. I will be glad to help anybody who wish to preserve that heritage especially if you can offer something for trade. Ex. Cards, pods, accessories, manual, software diskettes, expertise, etc. Michel B. VE2FYG ------------------------------------------------------- HP64000 Steven N. Hirsch cctech@classiccmp.org Tue May 6 06:45:04 2003 On Sun, 4 May 2003, David and Nancy Keim Comley wrote: > I brought home an HP64000 development system today. It has the emulation > pods for the 68000 and 8080A processors, an HP-IB cable plus some other odds > and ends in the backpack. A peak at the back indicated that it is crammed > full of cards and 128K memory. > > Unfortunately what it doesn't have is either software or manuals, so this is > a request to the group for help in that respect. I believe that there was a > ton of software originally available for this unit to support various > options and development tools, and I think what I am looking for is at least > the operating system on floppy so that I can boot it up. Any background > material on the 64000 would also be appreciated. You may have yelled just in time. At one point I had (5) of these things in my garage. Most of the extra hardware is gone (although I may have one or two extra pods), but I did hang on to a large box of documentation and have all the latest-and-greatest software on diskette. I was planning a trip to the landfill, but will hold off on that in case you want any of it. If you are located within driving distance of Burlington, VT, you could also cart away one of the floor-standing 8" hard-disk units (weighs > 100lbs. and stores a whopping 5-MB). I wouldn't even consider shipping that beast. Let me know if you are interested in the docs. The diskettes would have to be duplicated, which means finding time and space to fire up the remaining system unit and remember how to use it . Perhaps someone on the list knows of a utility which permits copying the HP64k diskettes on a PC? Steve From GenealogyPro at RicVa.net Sat Oct 11 17:54:18 2003 From: GenealogyPro at RicVa.net (GenealogyPro) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:27 2005 Subject: Floppy drive alignment tools Message-ID: <3F888A1A.93C6165A@RicVa.net> Can you identify any sources for floppy drive alignment tools similar to Floppy Tune that was put out by Data Depot of Clearwater, FL? That company tells me its product has not been available for more than a year and it is not certain when, if at all, it will again become available? With what I recall I paid for the same, it would be worthwhile to buy either another copy or a competitor's produce since the drive I need to realign is in a laptop computer and thus would, unless I could find a "junked" computer with the same floppy drive that still works, cost as much to replace as what I originally paid for the laptop itself as I bought it used. Thanks Michael E. Pollock --- [This msg Virus Scanned by GlobalWeb.net] From danstren at yahoo.com Sun Oct 12 11:25:56 2003 From: danstren at yahoo.com (Dan Strenkowski) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:27 2005 Subject: next batch of things to sell/give away Message-ID: <20031012162556.70867.qmail@web41810.mail.yahoo.com> Still have any of this? ---- I've got another batch of things to get rid of. Not everthing is free this time. If any of my prices are out of line, please feel free to counter offer. Free + shipping: -2 empty drive bay covers for BA440 series DEC cabinets -M7165 with ribbon cables -IBM WDS-380 scsi drive, 80megs, full height 3.5" -big pot with knob, new, made by Clarostat? 3 terminals, 06-115921-019, 625-7917, unknown values -Namco limit switch, mounted on a plate, rated for both AC and DC, 125v at 15amps AC or .5amps DC. -IBM 8bit ISA serial/parallel card with NS16450N uart, from an AT -generic PC floppy cable :-) -WDC 8/16 bit ISA 256K VGA card For sale plus shipping: -2 fan trays with fans from a DEC R400X DSSI expansion chassis.... these are the same as the ones in any BA440 chassis right? $10.00 each -1 power supply from DEC R400X DSSI expansion chassis. I assume this os also the same as for the BA440. $20 -Kensington System Saver Mac, this is for a Plus, SE, etc. It's in great shape. $20.00 -SCO Open Desktop 2.0.0 on QIC tape. I tried installing it, and I think I had a bad tape drive.... NT wouldn't see the drive either. I picked it up used but the tape had never been opened until I opened it. It is in the original box with all manuals and license card. $5.00 -2 Belkin narrow centronics style 6 foot scsi cables and a no-name terminator of some kind, probably passsive. All in new condition. $15.00 -generic scsi drive case, narrow with centronics style connectors, will accept either a HD or a cdrom.... has two face plates. Never used for more than a few minutes, stored most of the time. Still in box. $15.00 Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA ------- --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search From teoz at neo.rr.com Mon Oct 13 10:47:54 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:27 2005 Subject: Interesting video board....free! References: <3F8AA32F.F16088ED@comcast.net> Message-ID: <002001c391a1$6109cbe0$3d7ca418@neo.rr.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Woyciesjes" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Monday, October 13, 2003 9:05 AM Subject: Re: Interesting video board....free! > Gene Buckle wrote: > > > > In cleaning out some of my old stuff, I ran across a Diamond Stealth 64 > > PCI VGA card. What makes it interesting is that it's got a full size 15 > > pin d-sub connector instead of the 9 pin size, high density 15 pin d-sub > > connector. > > > > The chipset is an S3 Vision968. > > > > Anyone that's interested can have it for the cost of shipping. > > > > g. > > I wonder, was that in a Mac computer? IIRC, that's what Mac monitors > use to have... > > -- > --- Dave Woyciesjes > --- ICQ# 905818 There was a mac board made by diamond called the Javelin (Javelin video 30000) that fits this description. What does the bios chip say on it? I have one of these video boards but somebody replaced the bios chip so that its pc compatible and I cant use it on my powermac. From geneb at deltasoft.com Mon Oct 13 11:27:37 2003 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:27 2005 Subject: Interesting video board....free! In-Reply-To: <002001c391a1$6109cbe0$3d7ca418@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: > > There was a mac board made by diamond called the Javelin (Javelin video > 30000) that fits this description. What does the bios chip say on it? > I have one of these video boards but somebody replaced the bios chip so that > its pc compatible and I cant use it on my powermac. > >From memory, I think it reads "Stealth64" with a version number of 2.07. The label is green. g. From rhudson at cnonline.net Mon Oct 13 11:50:55 2003 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:27 2005 Subject: OT: Need help finding jobs Message-ID: <696E4EAA-FD9D-11D7-95E4-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> This is posted on both cctalk (classic Computers) and M100 (Radio Shack Model 100 computers) mailing lists. Apologies to those on both lists. I have been a sometime poster and a long time lurker on these two lists and I consider a number of you friends, the rest of you are friends I don't know yet. As some of you may know, my family and I just moved to Kansas City MO after my wife was laid off at her job. My wife and I are currently looking for jobs in the area. If you know of any job in the Kansas City MO area for us please pass an email on to us, or pass our email our address to the hiring manager. Thanks for your help. Ron hudson rhudson@cnonline.net Network Admin/Helpdesk Tina Hudson thudson@cnonline.net Purchasing / Buyer We are both checking all the job sites we can find (esp Dice, Monster Career Builder ... ) From alhartman at yahoo.com Mon Oct 13 12:43:33 2003 From: alhartman at yahoo.com (Al Hartman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:27 2005 Subject: MacPlus Mouse? In-Reply-To: <200310131714.h9DHCXH5075947@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20031013174333.11066.qmail@web13408.mail.yahoo.com> A friend of mine is looking for a mouse for his Macintosh Plus. It would be a non-ADB Mouse, with the 9-pin Connector on it (similar to a PC-Style Serial Connector). Please contact me if you have one to help my friend out... Also, if anyone wants it... I have a Mac 128 (I think..) for grabs. It is just the case, logic board and Video Tube. It doesn't have a floppy drive or analog board or other parts... Perfect for a MacQuarium.. LOL!! Pay for Shipping (or come pick it up in Philadelphia PA) and it's yours... Al __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com From arcarlini at iee.org Mon Oct 13 12:46:59 2003 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:27 2005 Subject: Posting propagation delays In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <003d01c391b2$016442e0$5b01a8c0@athlon> > I've only just received this one and it's now 19:43 GMT on > the 10th! Here are the headers with email addresses munged: I presume the last delay (or the first, reading backwards in time) is just the email arriving at your ISP at 16:07 (BST) and you trying to read it at 19:36 (BST) > Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore > for witchy@######.demon.co.uk id 1A7ys2-0005bK-8o; > Fri, 10 Oct 2003 18:36:58 +0000 > Received: from [213.161.76.87] (helo=neptune.easily.co.uk) > by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1A7ys2-0005bK-8o > for witchy@######.demon.co.uk; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 15:07:58 +0000 > Received: from huey.classiccmp.org (huey.classiccmp.org [209.145.140.36]) > by neptune.easily.co.uk (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9CC539AA3 > for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 16:07:47 +0100 (BST) But this one seems to be huey.classiccmp.org hanging on to it for nearly half a day: > Received: from huey.classiccmp.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) > by huey.classiccmp.org (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h9AF8nH6059804; > Fri, 10 Oct 2003 10:08:49 -0500 (CDT) > (envelope-from cctech-bounces@classiccmp.org) > Received: from he302war.uk.vianw.net (he302war.uk.vianw.net [195.102.244.165]) > by huey.classiccmp.org (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h9A5T1H3056839 > for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 00:29:02 -0500 (CDT) > (envelope-from pete@##########.u-net.com) [snip] For the record, the email to which I am replying has these headers (amongst others) and seems to have been received by huey on Friday and dealt with on Monday. Does heuy not work weekends? Or is that when he's off golfing with looey and duey :-) Received: from huey.classiccmp.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by huey.classiccmp.org (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h9DE6HH4073809; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 09:06:17 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by huey.classiccmp.org (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h9AIuKH3061395; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 13:56:20 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from witchy@binarydinosaurs.co.uk) Received: from vorbis.demon.co.uk ([62.49.16.88] helo=fop2) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1A82Iy-000I56-0W; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 19:48:00 +0100 From: "Witchy" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only" , "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 19:48:12 +0100 Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From arcarlini at iee.org Mon Oct 13 12:54:15 2003 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:27 2005 Subject: Multi-CPU Qbus VAXen In-Reply-To: <200310131726.44521.meltie@meltie.com> Message-ID: <003e01c391b3$04437890$5b01a8c0@athlon> > No, just four totally seperate 4-slot Q22 backplanes sharing > a common PSU > (OK, i'm hardly going for 5x9 uptime and redundancy here!) in > a largish Wouldn't this just be essentially 4 BA23s in a rackmount type of enclosure? If so, they would each have their own PSU. I don't know about the various configs that DEC sold officially, but the ones I put together by scrounging round the lab were always stacks of BA23s and a distribution panel of some sort. > deskside case and clustered over thinwire - was going to look > for KA660s > so I could share a DSSI disk too. Could multiple hosts use a SCSI bus? AFAICR the KA660 will happily work in a BA23 but if you want DSSI you need the proper cab kit, which needs a BA2xx or BA4xx case. So now you are back to back-to-back mounted BA213 or BA430 in a rack. > Unfortunately the amount of VAXen (and therefore available > CPUs) over here in the UK is a LOT smaller than in the US! Nah. You just need to look harder, or more likely, for longer. They crop up but you have to work at it. There's plenty of stuff on reseller's shelves and it will all become available over the next ten to twenty years or so as they close up shop or move on to other things. The real problem will be what to do when that happens: do you save both the VAX 8650 and the VAX 9000 and how can you have them both running on the Internet at the same time. Of course, if you're not in this for the long haul ... :-) Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Oct 13 14:56:33 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:27 2005 Subject: Interesting video board....free! In-Reply-To: <3F8AA32F.F16088ED@comcast.net> References: <3F8AA32F.F16088ED@comcast.net> Message-ID: <20031013125138.D26942@newshell.lmi.net> Gene Buckle wrote: > In cleaning out some of my old stuff, I ran across a Diamond Stealth 64 > PCI VGA card. What makes it interesting is that it's got a full size 15 > pin d-sub connector instead of the 9 pin size, high density 15 pin d-sub > connector. DA15 (instead of DE15) was commonly used for some Apple monitors. PCI made it possible to physically insert Apple PCI cards into PC PCI bus, and vice versa. The local humane society had a donated PC with such a video card that they were using for record keeping of their vet hospital. Their "vertical market solutions" vendor insisted on selling them an entire IBM computer, "because that one with the weird video connector is too weird!" From teoz at neo.rr.com Mon Oct 13 15:58:13 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:27 2005 Subject: Interesting video board....free! References: <3F8AA32F.F16088ED@comcast.net> <20031013125138.D26942@newshell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <000d01c391cc$bb2313e0$3d7ca418@neo.rr.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Cisin" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Monday, October 13, 2003 3:56 PM Subject: Re: Interesting video board....free! > Gene Buckle wrote: > > In cleaning out some of my old stuff, I ran across a Diamond Stealth 64 > > PCI VGA card. What makes it interesting is that it's got a full size 15 > > pin d-sub connector instead of the 9 pin size, high density 15 pin d-sub > > connector. > > DA15 (instead of DE15) was commonly used for some Apple monitors. > PCI made it possible to physically insert Apple PCI cards into PC PCI bus, > and vice versa. > > The local humane society had a donated PC with such a video card that > they were using for record keeping of their vet hospital. Their "vertical > market solutions" vendor insisted on selling them an entire IBM computer, > "because that one with the weird video connector is too weird!" > Just because the mac went to PCI doesnt mean that any pci card could be used in a mac. The card would have to have firmware that told the mac what to do with it, and then drivers/software for it to work with the OS. Most venders dont want to mess or support other platforms or hardware that isnt their specialty (especially when they can sell you more hardware to replace it). I think most of the diamond cards for the mac were re-rommed for the PC and sold off into the aftermarket clearence houses who probably sold them with mac monitors or just mav to vga adapters. Diamonf never sold many if any cards o the mac crowd. From jpero at sympatico.ca Mon Oct 13 12:04:12 2003 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:27 2005 Subject: Found this. In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20031010213229.007d7d20@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <20031013210222.GAOQ9290.tomts13-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Saw this on our local newsgroups (kingston.forsale) Contact him not me please! quote: Contact: jrpart@excite.com Available are: QTY Description ----- ------------- 250 - Green LED Rectangular 5mm x 2mm (just the right size to slide into the cooling slots of a PC Case front bezel). 8000 - Red LED 5mm Diameter, Sharp P/N: GL5PR4 available in bags of 250 and boxes of 2000. 125 - TIL-311 Hexadecimal Dot Matrix Display with integral TTL driver electronics to accept, store & display 4-bit binary data, Epoxy package 8 - TIL-311A Hexadecimal Dot Matrix Display with integral TTL driver circuit to accept, store & display 4-bit binary data, Plastic package For a copy of the TIL311 Datasheet see: http://www-s.ti.com/sc/ds/til311.pdf and it is mirrored at http://umwnt1.physics.lsa.umich.edu/mttc/images/til311.pdf 9900 - 100 Ohm, 5%, 1/4 Watt Carbon film resistor, available in packages of 100 and boxes of 5000. Use it as a current limiting resistor to drive the above LEDs from a 3.3 Volt Supply. 3500 - 220 Ohm, 5%, 1/4 Watt Carbon film resistor, available in packages of 100. Use it as a current limiting resistor to drive the above LEDs from a 5 Volt Supply. 3800 - 680 Ohm, 5%, 1/4 Watt Carbon film resistor, available in packages of 100. Use it as a current limiting resistor to drive the above LEDs from a 12 Volt Supply. Here is the pricing including shipping on prepaid orders, COD is available for an additional $6.50. All parts/components are only sold in full packages. - Bag of 250 LEDs, $30 including shipping to anywhere in Canada - Box of 2000 LEDs, $155 including shipping to anywhere in Canada - 100 Resistors, $5 including shipping to anywhere in Canada - 5000 Resistors, $30 including shipping to anywhere in Ontario - 5000 Resistors, $35 including shipping to anywhere in Canada outside of Ontario Here is the pricing for the soldercup DB-25 connectors. The pricing is identical for Male and Female connectors. For either type, the contact surfaces have three micron Gold plating. All prices include tax: 1 - 49 pieces at $1.44 each 50 - 99 pieces at $1.21 each 100 pieces or more at $0.96 each The TIL311 and TIL311A Displays are $11 each (less than half of their wholesale price) For the DB-25 connectors and TIL311 displays the shipping is extra, since shipping charges depend on weight. So E-mail me for a quote if you want multiple items from the above list shipped. Please include your Postal Code. To purchase, e-mail me, in return I'll send you my address, phone number and payment instructions. Contact: jrpart@excite.com unquote. Wizard From jpero at sympatico.ca Mon Oct 13 12:04:12 2003 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:27 2005 Subject: Found this. In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20031010213229.007d7d20@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <20031013210851.HXGB4776.tomts12-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Saw this on our local newsgroups (kingston.forsale) Contact him not me please! quote: Contact: jrpart@excite.com Available are: QTY Description ----- ------------- 250 - Green LED Rectangular 5mm x 2mm (just the right size to slide into the cooling slots of a PC Case front bezel). 8000 - Red LED 5mm Diameter, Sharp P/N: GL5PR4 available in bags of 250 and boxes of 2000. 125 - TIL-311 Hexadecimal Dot Matrix Display with integral TTL driver electronics to accept, store & display 4-bit binary data, Epoxy package 8 - TIL-311A Hexadecimal Dot Matrix Display with integral TTL driver circuit to accept, store & display 4-bit binary data, Plastic package For a copy of the TIL311 Datasheet see: http://www-s.ti.com/sc/ds/til311.pdf and it is mirrored at http://umwnt1.physics.lsa.umich.edu/mttc/images/til311.pdf 9900 - 100 Ohm, 5%, 1/4 Watt Carbon film resistor, available in packages of 100 and boxes of 5000. Use it as a current limiting resistor to drive the above LEDs from a 3.3 Volt Supply. 3500 - 220 Ohm, 5%, 1/4 Watt Carbon film resistor, available in packages of 100. Use it as a current limiting resistor to drive the above LEDs from a 5 Volt Supply. 3800 - 680 Ohm, 5%, 1/4 Watt Carbon film resistor, available in packages of 100. Use it as a current limiting resistor to drive the above LEDs from a 12 Volt Supply. Here is the pricing including shipping on prepaid orders, COD is available for an additional $6.50. All parts/components are only sold in full packages. - Bag of 250 LEDs, $30 including shipping to anywhere in Canada - Box of 2000 LEDs, $155 including shipping to anywhere in Canada - 100 Resistors, $5 including shipping to anywhere in Canada - 5000 Resistors, $30 including shipping to anywhere in Ontario - 5000 Resistors, $35 including shipping to anywhere in Canada outside of Ontario Here is the pricing for the soldercup DB-25 connectors. The pricing is identical for Male and Female connectors. For either type, the contact surfaces have three micron Gold plating. All prices include tax: 1 - 49 pieces at $1.44 each 50 - 99 pieces at $1.21 each 100 pieces or more at $0.96 each The TIL311 and TIL311A Displays are $11 each (less than half of their wholesale price) For the DB-25 connectors and TIL311 displays the shipping is extra, since shipping charges depend on weight. So E-mail me for a quote if you want multiple items from the above list shipped. Please include your Postal Code. To purchase, e-mail me, in return I'll send you my address, phone number and payment instructions. Contact: jrpart@excite.com unquote. Wizard From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Oct 13 16:40:50 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:27 2005 Subject: Interesting video board....free! In-Reply-To: <000d01c391cc$bb2313e0$3d7ca418@neo.rr.com> References: <3F8AA32F.F16088ED@comcast.net> <20031013125138.D26942@newshell.lmi.net> <000d01c391cc$bb2313e0$3d7ca418@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: <20031013143236.X26942@newshell.lmi.net> > > Gene Buckle wrote: > > > In cleaning out some of my old stuff, I ran across a Diamond Stealth 64 > > > PCI VGA card. What makes it interesting is that it's got a full size 15 > > > pin d-sub connector instead of the 9 pin size, high density 15 pin d-sub > > > connector. > > > > DA15 (instead of DE15) was commonly used for some Apple monitors. > > PCI made it possible to physically insert Apple PCI cards into PC PCI bus, > > and vice versa. > > > > The local humane society had a donated PC with such a video card that > > they were using for record keeping of their vet hospital. Their "vertical > > market solutions" vendor insisted on selling them an entire IBM computer, > > "because that one with the weird video connector is too weird!" On Mon, 13 Oct 2003, TeoZ wrote: > Just because the mac went to PCI doesnt mean that any pci card could be used > in a mac. The card would have to have firmware that told the mac what to do > with it, and then drivers/software for it to work with the OS. That is why I said, "made it possible to physically insert . . ." This was a functioning system, with all the right cabling, drivers, etc. > Most venders dont want to mess or support other platforms or hardware that > isnt their specialty (especially when they can sell you more hardware to > replace it). This vendor wanted to make the hardware sale. Enough to blame "that weird video" for modem and CD-ROm problems in his software. (Even after they made the hardware sale of complete system, they still never got their [software] system to run right) > I think most of the diamond cards for the mac were re-rommed for the PC and > sold off into the aftermarket clearence houses who probably sold them with > mac monitors or just mav to vga adapters. Diamonf never sold many if any > cards o the mac crowd. That sounds about right - it was probably a Mac board, but it had PC compatible ROM and Windoze drivers. From bqt at update.uu.se Mon Oct 13 16:58:11 2003 From: bqt at update.uu.se (Johnny Billquist) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:27 2005 Subject: VAX 8600 on ebay In-Reply-To: <200310131715.h9DHCXH6075947@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 13 Oct 2003 "Antonio Carlini" wrote: > http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3051901405&category > =1479 > > It does say "too large for pallet" so I guess you have been warned. This > is > really a souped-up ECL VAX-11/780, and I know that several of you are > quite > smitten by that vintage of machine. (sadly for me it's on the wrong side > of the pond and has appeared just[1] before I become rich). Oh drool. It's more than a souped up 11/780, but I guess in this company it's a fair description. :-) If noone goes for it, I'd love to get my hands on the cards (especially memory). Update have one 8650 up and running 24/7 with NetBSD. I'm about to embark on an ambitious project of getting the device driver from Ultrix working in NetBSD, if someone else feels like joining in... Does anyone have any good ideas what the problem can be if an 8650 have problems booting the FE, by the way? It fails about 50% of the time. I've checked all cables, tried two different FEs, tried different RL02 drives and packs. Different controllers. When I get an error, it's a problem with the RL02. That much I can tell from the error, but unfortunately, that specific error is actually not mentioned in the DEC documentation for the 8650. The only thing I just realized I haven't swapped is the Q-bus backplane... Johnny Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt@update.uu.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Oct 13 17:10:49 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:27 2005 Subject: cctalk Digest, Vol 2, Issue 13 In-Reply-To: from "Fred N. van Kempen" at Oct 9, 3 08:29:18 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 251 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20031013/7c583c05/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Oct 13 17:20:45 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:27 2005 Subject: Floppy drive alignment tools In-Reply-To: <3F888A1A.93C6165A@RicVa.net> from "GenealogyPro" at Oct 11, 3 06:54:18 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2687 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20031013/b7303a2e/attachment.ksh From eric at brouhaha.com Mon Oct 13 18:15:29 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:27 2005 Subject: cctalk Digest, Vol 2, Issue 13 In-Reply-To: References: from"Fred N. van Kempen" at Oct 9, 3 08:29:18 am Message-ID: <1454.4.20.168.153.1066086929.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Tony wrote: > A _REAL_ Retroist(tm) has a VAX 11/7x0 in the bedroom :-) Um, no, a PDP-10. Who wants those newfangled VAX things? If it doesn't have 36 bits, you're not playing with a full DEC. From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Mon Oct 13 18:23:31 2003 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:27 2005 Subject: cctalk Digest, Vol 2, Issue 13 References: from"Fred N. van Kempen" at Oct 9, 3 08:29:18 am <1454.4.20.168.153.1066086929.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <3F8B33F3.1000500@jetnet.ab.ca> Eric Smith wrote: > Tony wrote: >>A _REAL_ Retroist(tm) has a VAX 11/7x0 in the bedroom :-) > Um, no, a PDP-10. Who wants those newfangled VAX things? If > it doesn't have 36 bits, you're not playing with a full DEC. You must have a BIG bedroom then. :) Note I would not mind playing with a modern FPGA version of the 10 providing about a 200% speed increase, and still have the Classic computer look and still be REPAIRABLE 40 years from now. What I don't like is the feel of the software emulators. Ben. From tothwolf at concentric.net Mon Oct 13 20:09:09 2003 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:28 2005 Subject: Interesting video board....free! In-Reply-To: <3F8AA32F.F16088ED@comcast.net> References: <3F8AA32F.F16088ED@comcast.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 13 Oct 2003, David Woyciesjes wrote: > Gene Buckle wrote: > > > In cleaning out some of my old stuff, I ran across a Diamond Stealth > > 64 PCI VGA card. What makes it interesting is that it's got a full > > size 15 pin d-sub connector instead of the 9 pin size, high density 15 > > pin d-sub connector. > > > > The chipset is an S3 Vision968. > > > > Anyone that's interested can have it for the cost of shipping. > > I wonder, was that in a Mac computer? IIRC, that's what Mac monitors use > to have... >From the description, it is a Mac version of what used to be a very common PCI video card. The only differences that I'm aware of are the BIOS and a slight change to the PC board where the video output connector is located. Diamond branded boards and S3 chipset based boards are still on my want-list in case anyone else comes across such things... -Toth From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Oct 13 20:20:52 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:28 2005 Subject: cctalk Digest, Vol 2, Issue 13 In-Reply-To: <1454.4.20.168.153.1066086929.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> from "Eric Smith" at Oct 13, 3 04:15:29 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 225 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20031014/e4b69b97/attachment.ksh From doc at mdrconsult.com Mon Oct 13 21:45:09 2003 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:28 2005 Subject: cctalk Digest, Vol 2, Issue 13 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3F8B6335.1030106@mdrconsult.com> Tony Duell wrote: >>>>Ok , you leave her there. I'll carry her to the bedroom. :) >>> >>>Bedroom? Wheres your sense of adventure? ;) >> >>"A Real Retroist(tm) does it... on top of a VAX 11/7x0 !" .. > > > A _REAL_ Retroist(tm) has a VAX 11/7x0 in the bedroom :-) Heh. There's a PDP11V03-L in its original low-rise cabinet, with RX02, that's a serious candidate for becoming my nightstand. It's the right height, and it's just so *cute*! Doc ObCCmp: I'm looking for a QBus RX02 controller that'll LL-format disks. I hear they exist, and right now I have about 30 pounds of very interesting 8" placemats. From eric at brouhaha.com Tue Oct 14 00:26:00 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:28 2005 Subject: cctalk Digest, Vol 2, Issue 13 In-Reply-To: <3F8B6335.1030106@mdrconsult.com> References: <3F8B6335.1030106@mdrconsult.com> Message-ID: <32803.64.169.63.74.1066109160.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> "Doc Shipley" wrote: > ObCCmp: I'm looking for a QBus RX02 controller that'll LL-format disks. > I hear they exist, and right now I have about 30 pounds of very > interesting 8" placemats. There isn't an RX02 controller that can do that, because the RX02 drive box itself can't do it. But if you want to hook up generic 8-inch floppy drives with a Qbus controller that is software-compatible with the RXV21 and can format disks, I recommend the MXV21 or MXV22. A Google search reveals that Keyways claims to have them in stock. From vcf at siconic.com Mon Oct 13 16:37:57 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:28 2005 Subject: HP2100 mini for donation (fwd) Message-ID: Here is someone in The Netherlands who has a nice HP2100 to give away. Please contact the original sender. Reply-to: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 15:24:48 +0200 From: Michiel Ettema To: donate@vintage.org Subject: HP2100 mini for donation Hi, I have an old (1971) HP2100 mini system and reel tape unit taken up space here and wonder if you are interested in it. For more information on the system see http://www.gifford.co.uk/~coredump/hp2100s.htm The system was previously used at ESTEC (http://www.estec.esa.nl/) after which it was donated to my school which threw it away. Being a scavenger at the time I decided to take it with me and it has been in my possesion since. Regards, Michiel Ettema -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to Tue Oct 14 07:36:08 2003 From: jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:28 2005 Subject: cctalk Digest, Vol 2, Issue 13 References: <3F8B6335.1030106@mdrconsult.com> Message-ID: <3F8BEDB8.111F8DAF@compsys.to> >Doc Shipley wrote: > ObCCmp: I'm looking for a QBus RX02 controller that'll LL-format disks. > I hear they exist, and right now I have about 30 pounds of very > interesting 8" placemats. Jerome Fine replies: DEC never supported the ability to do an LLF on 8" floppy media. Neither the RX01 nor the RX02 drives and their controllers could do so. HOWEVER, MOST 3rd party controllers and drives could do so. In particular, the DSD 440 and the DSD 880 had an 8" RX02 compatible drive and could do an LLF (off-line) on the floppy media. I presume that other systems that were RX01 / RX02 compatible could do so as well. I still have a number of the DSD 880 drives, but I am in Toronto and they are VERY heavy! They have not been powered on for a number of years, so I do not know their current status! Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue Oct 14 08:21:38 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:28 2005 Subject: air filters Message-ID: <006901c39256$197beaa0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> I was looking for air filters for DEC RK05, HP7900A, and HP7906. I found one website that I sent an email to the company asking for prices and here's what I got: DEC RK05 - 67.00 HP 7900A- 74.00 HP 7906 - 73.50 This just seems ludicrous to me. Anyone know of better priced sources? Jay West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From lcourtney at mvista.com Tue Oct 14 09:04:13 2003 From: lcourtney at mvista.com (Lee Courtney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:28 2005 Subject: VCF 6.0 In-Reply-To: <006901c39256$197beaa0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <000b01c3925c$0ca87900$2000000a@lcourtney22k> Hi all, I just wanted to congratulate Sellam and thank all the attendees and Exhibitors at last weekends VCF. It was the best VCF I've attended, well organized, with a fantastic lineup of speakers, lots of attendees and of course great exhibits from the amazing retro-computing community. Personally I was sorry I couldn't attend all the talks - especially the talk on the IBM 5100 and APL. Looking forward to attending and helping with next years event. Lee Courtney P.S. Did I mention the fantastic venue at the Computer History Museum?! ;-) From wh.sudbrink at verizon.net Tue Oct 14 09:57:16 2003 From: wh.sudbrink at verizon.net (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:28 2005 Subject: VCF 6.0 In-Reply-To: <000b01c3925c$0ca87900$2000000a@lcourtney22k> Message-ID: > I just wanted to congratulate Sellam and thank all the attendees and > Exhibitors at last weekends VCF. It was the best VCF I've attended Any pictures? From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Tue Oct 14 10:52:47 2003 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:28 2005 Subject: VCF 6.0 Message-ID: > > I just wanted to congratulate Sellam and thank all the attendees and > > Exhibitors at last weekends VCF. It was the best VCF I've attended > > Any pictures? I've got some up at http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcf6.shtml. The X's will be replaced by descriptions of each photo, display or event once I get a bit of time (hopefully within the next day or two). Please email me if you have any questions, issues, comments or anything you want to add to the (currently nonexistent) picture descriptions Erik Klein www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum The Vintage Computer Forum From chejmw at acsu.buffalo.edu Tue Oct 14 11:44:17 2003 From: chejmw at acsu.buffalo.edu (James M. Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:28 2005 Subject: air filters References: <006901c39256$197beaa0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <003901c39272$687486a0$317ecd80@chem.buffalo.edu> get the dimensions and go to home depot, and see what is available, you will be AMAZED! Jim WB2FCN "Work Smarter, not Harder! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jay West" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2003 9:21 AM Subject: air filters > I was looking for air filters for DEC RK05, HP7900A, and HP7906. I found one > website that I sent an email to the company asking for prices and here's > what I got: > > DEC RK05 - 67.00 > HP 7900A- 74.00 > HP 7906 - 73.50 > > This just seems ludicrous to me. Anyone know of better priced sources? > > Jay West > > > --- > [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > > From frustum at pacbell.net Tue Oct 14 11:33:28 2003 From: frustum at pacbell.net (Jim Battle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:28 2005 Subject: VCF 6.0 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3F8C2558.7050002@pacbell.net> Erik Klein wrote: > >>>I just wanted to congratulate Sellam and thank all the attendees and >>>Exhibitors at last weekends VCF. It was the best VCF I've attended >> >>Any pictures? > > > I've got some up at http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcf6.shtml. The > X's will be replaced by descriptions of each photo, display or event > once I get a bit of time (hopefully within the next day or two). > > Please email me if you have any questions, issues, comments or anything > you want to add to the (currently nonexistent) picture descriptions For this picture: http://www.vintage-computer.com/images/vcf6/hans.jpg how about this caption? Hans doing his Supreme's "Stop In the Name of Love" imitation From jpl15 at panix.com Tue Oct 14 13:13:43 2003 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:28 2005 Subject: air filters In-Reply-To: <003901c39272$687486a0$317ecd80@chem.buffalo.edu> References: <006901c39256$197beaa0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <003901c39272$687486a0$317ecd80@chem.buffalo.edu> Message-ID: On Tue, 14 Oct 2003, James M. Walker wrote: > get the dimensions and go to home depot, and see what is available, you will > be AMAZED! Ya know - Home Depot starts carrying HEPA filters for Legacy Disk Drives - I damn sure **will** be amazed - prolly have the Big One and fall over dead right there! Not bloody likely, though ya never know! Cheers John PS: Just try asking a Home Depot Associate for a HEPA Filter that fits your DEC RL02.... ;} From pcw at mesanet.com Tue Oct 14 13:32:16 2003 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:28 2005 Subject: air filters In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 14 Oct 2003, John Lawson wrote: > > > On Tue, 14 Oct 2003, James M. Walker wrote: > > > get the dimensions and go to home depot, and see what is available, you will > > be AMAZED! > > > Ya know - Home Depot starts carrying HEPA filters for Legacy Disk Drives > - I damn sure **will** be amazed - prolly have the Big One and fall over > dead right there! > > Not bloody likely, though ya never know! > > Cheers > > John > > PS: Just try asking a Home Depot Associate for a HEPA Filter that fits > your DEC RL02.... ;} > Though this does make one think that it may not be that hard to steal the paper filter from an existing (larger) HEPA filter , cut it to the proper size, and hot melt it into the old filter casing... Peter Wallace From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue Oct 14 13:50:51 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:28 2005 Subject: air filters References: <006901c39256$197beaa0$033310ac@kwcorp.com><003901c39272$687486a0$317ecd80@chem.buffalo.edu> Message-ID: <077201c39284$16f996a0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> at least on the 7900 and 7906, the air filter media which is probably what James was referring to, is permanently sealed into the filter enclosure. You can't just replace the media. Jay West ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Lawson" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2003 1:13 PM Subject: Re: air filters > > > On Tue, 14 Oct 2003, James M. Walker wrote: > > > get the dimensions and go to home depot, and see what is available, you will > > be AMAZED! > > > Ya know - Home Depot starts carrying HEPA filters for Legacy Disk Drives > - I damn sure **will** be amazed - prolly have the Big One and fall over > dead right there! > > Not bloody likely, though ya never know! > > Cheers > > John > > PS: Just try asking a Home Depot Associate for a HEPA Filter that fits > your DEC RL02.... ;} > > --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Oct 14 13:55:42 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:28 2005 Subject: VCF 6.0 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20031014114835.O66722@newshell.lmi.net> On Tue, 14 Oct 2003, Erik Klein wrote: > I've got some up at http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcf6.shtml. The > X's will be replaced by descriptions of each photo, display or event > once I get a bit of time (hopefully within the next day or two). > Please email me if you have any questions, issues, comments or anything > you want to add to the (currently nonexistent) picture descriptions "Vendor5" was my booth. Your "Northstar Newsletter #1" sat out on the blue table for more than a day, even getting passed up by an "all you can carry for $5". I brought a couple of totes of Maynard and JLaser/JRAM add-on boards, but couldn't remember who had been looking for them. -- Fred Cisin cisin@xenosoft.com XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue Oct 14 13:57:35 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:28 2005 Subject: Xebec Apple II controller In-Reply-To: Geoff Reed "Xebec Apple II controller" (Oct 11, 18:36) References: <10310100636.ZM24000@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <6.0.0.22.2.20031011183532.04984040@mail.zipcon.net> Message-ID: <10310141957.ZM29799@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Oct 11, 18:36, Geoff Reed wrote: > dug up an apple II that has a Xebec apple II controller init, is this a > SCSI controller? or is it a SASI host interface that's gonna need an > external SASI<->ST506 controller on it? Didn't anybody answer this? I've got a small Apple ][ card which might be its twin... Mine says "APPLE 2/3 XEBEC INTERFACE REV1" on the top edge. It has a 6522 VIA chip, some LSTTL, 2732 EPROM, a RAM chip, a couple of 74S240s, and a terminator pack next to a 26-pin header. I don't know what this is supposed to connect to; it might be SASI (it has just about enough pins and just about enough I/O), and that's certainly what Xebec were famous for. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From rdd at rddavis.org Tue Oct 14 14:09:45 2003 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:28 2005 Subject: air filters In-Reply-To: References: <006901c39256$197beaa0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <003901c39272$687486a0$317ecd80@chem.buffalo.edu> Message-ID: <20031014190442.GI12185@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe John Lawson, from writings of Tue, Oct 14, 2003 at 02:13:43PM -0400: > PS: Just try asking a Home Depot Associate for a HEPA Filter that fits > your DEC RL02.... ;} Isn't that a mean thing to do? ;-) After all, some of the clerks in those stores get rather confused when one asks for some basic hardware for home repairs, such as "real" windows panes---that is, wavy with lead in them, or for the square center shaft of a doorknob... items that one could find in "real" hardware stores. It never ceases to amaze me how much in the way of actual hardware, from the right washer, hinge, bolt or pulley, to the right type of paint, one could find in a small hardware store with wooden floors and narrow aisles as opposed to not being able to find what one wants in those huge so-called hardware stores that sell everything from warped knotty wood and plastic bathtubs to snowblowers and a huge array of light-fixtures with plastic sockets that will melt if one puts anything larger than a 60 watt bulb in them. -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue Oct 14 14:03:29 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:28 2005 Subject: identify this ISA card? Message-ID: <10310142003.ZM29807@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> This one's barely on-topic, as it has a silkscreen legend which states "(C) 1992 GSM-SYNTEL LTD". Above that it says SYN-PC302. It has a couple of Actel FPGAs on it, and space for another similar-sized IC, three 75160 interface ICs next to a 26-pin male box header, spaces for 8 ZIP devices (RAM?), and spaces for two miniDIN sockets (an 8-pin and a 9-pin). Anyone have any idea what it might be? -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue Oct 14 14:11:47 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:28 2005 Subject: air filters References: Message-ID: <078401c39287$036692c0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> > Though this does make one think that it may not be that hard to steal the > paper filter from an existing (larger) HEPA filter , cut it to the proper > size, and hot melt it into the old filter casing... Of course, bear in mind you're in for some spectacular crashes if the filter media you get at home depot doesn't have exactly the same airflow (density) as the one you replace. The air flow through the filter media is very carefully calculated to get the right amount of air into the media cavity so the heads can fly on that cusion of air. I seem to recall the head disk gap on a 7906 is about 20 microinches or so? I don't think I'll be playing "test the unknown filter media" games anytime soon. Jay --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From aek at spies.com Tue Oct 14 14:37:23 2003 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:28 2005 Subject: air filters Message-ID: <200310141937.h9EJbN4p025508@spies.com> > Anyone know of better priced sources? They have been showing up on eBay for less than that. 2733419572 jun 6 21.50 RK05 air filter How much does Crisis want for 79xx filters? From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Tue Oct 14 14:57:05 2003 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:28 2005 Subject: Xebec Apple II controller Message-ID: <50.236f3a80.2cbdaf11@aol.com> In a message dated 10/14/2003 3:44:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time, pete@dunnington.u-net.com writes: << On Oct 11, 18:36, Geoff Reed wrote: > dug up an apple II that has a Xebec apple II controller init, is this a > SCSI controller? or is it a SASI host interface that's gonna need an > external SASI<->ST506 controller on it? Didn't anybody answer this? I've got a small Apple ][ card which might be its twin... Mine says "APPLE 2/3 XEBEC INTERFACE REV1" on the top edge. It has a 6522 VIA chip, some LSTTL, 2732 EPROM, a RAM chip, a couple of 74S240s, and a terminator pack next to a 26-pin header. I don't know what this is supposed to connect to; it might be SASI (it has just about enough pins and just about enough I/O), and that's certainly what Xebec were famous for. >> Isn't this used for the Sider hard drive? If so, I have both parts but just need a cable. From rhudson at cnonline.net Tue Oct 14 15:01:25 2003 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:28 2005 Subject: 400K 800K Mac OS system disks Message-ID: <30D57ED7-FE81-11D7-AC42-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> Chris - They got here! thanks! Everyone - Thanks for all your help. :^) My MacSE will now have a proper system on it! From chejmw at acsu.buffalo.edu Tue Oct 14 15:11:34 2003 From: chejmw at acsu.buffalo.edu (James M. Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:28 2005 Subject: air filters References: <006901c39256$197beaa0$033310ac@kwcorp.com><003901c39272$687486a0$317ecd80@chem.buffalo.edu> <20031014190442.GI12185@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <001701c3928f$5d83c040$317ecd80@chem.buffalo.edu> Oh yes, I particularly like the way their faces glaze over when I say, Yes, I am looking for filters for my 1000 watt transmitter! Their response is usually, we aren't allowed to sell transmitters here! Well Duhhhh! Another one is where do you keep something like that? I respond, why on my 1000 watt transmitter shelf! Jim WB2FCN ----- Original Message ----- From: "R. D. Davis" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2003 3:04 PM Subject: Re: air filters > Quothe John Lawson, from writings of Tue, Oct 14, 2003 at 02:13:43PM -0400: > > PS: Just try asking a Home Depot Associate for a HEPA Filter that fits > > your DEC RL02.... ;} > > Isn't that a mean thing to do? ;-) After all, some of the clerks in > those stores get rather confused when one asks for some basic hardware > for home repairs, such as "real" windows panes---that is, wavy with > lead in them, or for the square center shaft of a doorknob... items > that one could find in "real" hardware stores. It never ceases to > amaze me how much in the way of actual hardware, from the right > washer, hinge, bolt or pulley, to the right type of paint, one could > find in a small hardware store with wooden floors and narrow aisles as > opposed to not being able to find what one wants in those huge > so-called hardware stores that sell everything from warped knotty wood > and plastic bathtubs to snowblowers and a huge array of light-fixtures > with plastic sockets that will melt if one puts anything larger than a > 60 watt bulb in them. > > -- > Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: > All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & > rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such > http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. > > From pcw at mesanet.com Tue Oct 14 16:06:53 2003 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:28 2005 Subject: air filters In-Reply-To: <078401c39287$036692c0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 14 Oct 2003, Jay West wrote: > > Though this does make one think that it may not be that hard to steal the > > paper filter from an existing (larger) HEPA filter , cut it to the proper > > size, and hot melt it into the old filter casing... > > Of course, bear in mind you're in for some spectacular crashes if the filter > media you get at home depot doesn't have exactly the same airflow (density) > as the one you replace. The air flow through the filter media is very > carefully calculated to get the right amount of air into the media cavity so > the heads can fly on that cusion of air. I seem to recall the head disk gap > on a 7906 is about 20 microinches or so? I don't think I'll be playing "test > the unknown filter media" games anytime soon. > > Jay > > --- > [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > Actually thats not true at all, there is very little you can do that will change the air pressure in the HDA (short of moving to a different altitude). The air pressure/media speed/head geometry/head loading pressure determine the flying height, the filter will have little or no affect on that. The filter pressure drop will determine how much of the circulating air goes through the filter and how much bypasses it... Peter Wallace From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Oct 14 16:50:52 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:28 2005 Subject: cctalk Digest, Vol 2, Issue 13 In-Reply-To: <3F8B6335.1030106@mdrconsult.com> from "Doc Shipley" at Oct 13, 3 09:45:09 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 665 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20031014/fcc1c6c0/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Oct 14 16:53:19 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:28 2005 Subject: air filters In-Reply-To: <006901c39256$197beaa0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> from "Jay West" at Oct 14, 3 08:21:38 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 667 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20031014/fba99d79/attachment.ksh From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Tue Oct 14 17:30:23 2003 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:28 2005 Subject: air filters References: Message-ID: <3F8C78FF.10807@jetnet.ab.ca> Tony Duell wrote: > [1] I have long suspected that DEC stands for 'Darn Expensive Components' :-) So is HP for Higher Priced? > -tony > > From pat at purdueriots.com Tue Oct 14 18:09:00 2003 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:28 2005 Subject: cctalk Digest, Vol 2, Issue 13 In-Reply-To: <3F8BEDB8.111F8DAF@compsys.to> References: <3F8B6335.1030106@mdrconsult.com> <3F8BEDB8.111F8DAF@compsys.to> Message-ID: <200310141809.00900.pat@purdueriots.com> On Tuesday 14 October 2003 07:36, Jerome H. Fine wrote: > HOWEVER, MOST 3rd party controllers and drives could > do so. In particular, the DSD 440 and the DSD 880 had an > 8" RX02 compatible drive and could do an LLF (off-line) > on the floppy media. I presume that other systems that were > RX01 / RX02 compatible could do so as well. I've got a DSD880, does anyone know if there's a "HyperDiagnostic" pair of numbers I can use to format a floppy as an RX01/RX02? Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue Oct 14 18:13:51 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:28 2005 Subject: Xebec Apple II controller In-Reply-To: SUPRDAVE@aol.com "Re: Xebec Apple II controller" (Oct 14, 15:57) References: <50.236f3a80.2cbdaf11@aol.com> Message-ID: <10310150013.ZM731@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Oct 14, 15:57, SUPRDAVE@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 10/14/2003 3:44:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > pete@dunnington.u-net.com writes: > > Mine says "APPLE 2/3 XEBEC INTERFACE REV1" on the top edge. > > Isn't this used for the Sider hard drive? If so, I have both parts but just > need a cable. Sounds plausible. Mine came on its own, no cables, no drive, so I'd be interested to know what's "inside the box". I assume an ST506 drive, a PSU, a Xebec card, and probably something to connect a ribbon cable to. Is there a connector on the outside of the drive box? If so, what type is it? We could probably work out the pinout required. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From rdd at rddavis.org Tue Oct 14 18:36:36 2003 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:28 2005 Subject: air filters In-Reply-To: <3F8C78FF.10807@jetnet.ab.ca> References: <3F8C78FF.10807@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <20031014233138.GJ12185@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe ben franchuk, from writings of Tue, Oct 14, 2003 at 04:30:23PM -0600: > So is HP for Higher Priced? Actually, these days, since HP turned its test equipment into effiminate and cheap-looking rubbish---with a new name to match, did away with it's excellent scientific calculators that used RPN and began producing annoying computers, it seems to have changed what those letters represent to better match its new image: HP now stands for: "Hmmmpf! Pfffooey!" officially, and, unofficially, "Hackless Products." -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From doc at mdrconsult.com Tue Oct 14 18:46:15 2003 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:28 2005 Subject: cctalk Digest, Vol 2, Issue 13 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3F8C8AC7.1010406@mdrconsult.com> Tony Duell wrote: > If you want to keep the DEC drives and controller (and I would), then the > easiest solution is to format the disks single-density (IBM 3740 format) > in, say. a CP/M machine, and then use the DEC RX02 to reformat them as > RX02 double-density disks. That's what I do, anyway. Oh, great. Now I gotta go find a CP/M machine. Oh, the humanity! ;) Doc From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Tue Oct 14 18:53:22 2003 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:28 2005 Subject: VCF 6.0 pictures Message-ID: <000001c392ae$5a626af0$947ba8c0@p933> I added descriptions to the pictures and integrated the VCF 6 stuff with the rest of my site. Feel free to check out www.vintage-computer.com/vcf6.shtml and please let me know what you think, especially if I missed something, misidentified someone or otherwise messed up. The show was truly awesome this year. I can't wait to hear the attendance numbers from Sellam. I'm pretty sure records were broken. The displays were amazing, as always, and the computers were incredible as well. It's fun to realize that you were in the same building as 3 of the maybe 30 or 40 remaining Apple Is in existence. There were two equally rare Mark-8s in attendance and several other machines that you just don't see every day. Thanks! Erik Klein www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum The Vintage Computer Forum From ian_primus at yahoo.com Tue Oct 14 19:03:58 2003 From: ian_primus at yahoo.com (Ian Primus) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:28 2005 Subject: repainting plastic terminal parts Message-ID: <12F78777-FEA3-11D7-8D99-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> I recently got an old Adds Regent 30 terminal (it says "Honeywell" on the front, must have been rebadged). I have repaired the electronics (I took pictures and documented the process, I'll put it on my website when it's ready), and the terminal works now. It was extremely filthy, however, and I cleaned up the outer shell with a little windex with no problems, but the brown plastic around the monitor and the keyboard was very sticky. I tried cleaning the plastic around the keyboard with just plain water, and with Windex, but it was still very sticky. I tested some Goo Gone on the back of the part, and it didn't damage anything, so I used it on the front. It appears that the paint is coming off. The Goo Gone made it come off a little, and I noticed that on the rest of it, just rubbing it with my finger could cause the paint to come off. It appears that whatever grime got onto the terminal ate away at the paint, as the paint on the inside does not have this problem. Here's my question - what is the best way to go about painting things like this? It was originally a dull finish (I think), do they make spray paint that has similar properties? Does it come in "Honeywell Brown"? Has anyone had experience painting plastics, or repainted any computer cases before? Any help would be appreciated. Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com From esharpe at uswest.net Tue Oct 14 21:56:30 2003 From: esharpe at uswest.net (ed sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:28 2005 Subject: ****Re: air filters References: <006901c39256$197beaa0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <003901c39272$687486a0$317ecd80@chem.buffalo.edu> Message-ID: <009001c392ca$b1b16d30$0100a8c0@SONYDIGITALED> Huh? home depot sells absolute filters for disk drives? ----- Original Message ----- From: "James M. Walker" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2003 9:44 AM Subject: Re: air filters > get the dimensions and go to home depot, and see what is available, you will > be > AMAZED! > Jim > WB2FCN > "Work Smarter, not Harder! > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jay West" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2003 9:21 AM > Subject: air filters > > > > I was looking for air filters for DEC RK05, HP7900A, and HP7906. I found > one > > website that I sent an email to the company asking for prices and here's > > what I got: > > > > DEC RK05 - 67.00 > > HP 7900A- 74.00 > > HP 7906 - 73.50 > > > > This just seems ludicrous to me. Anyone know of better priced sources? > > > > Jay West > > > > > > --- > > [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > > > > > > > From geoffr at zipcon.net Tue Oct 14 22:26:48 2003 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:29 2005 Subject: Xebec Apple II controller In-Reply-To: <50.236f3a80.2cbdaf11@aol.com> References: <50.236f3a80.2cbdaf11@aol.com> Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.2.20031014202531.04953b30@mail.zipcon.net> At 12:57 PM 10/14/03, you wrote: >Isn't this used for the Sider hard drive? If so, I have both parts but just >need a cable. Talking to the original owner of the apple II, Yes, it was hooked to a sider hard drive, but he couldn't remember if the sider was just a SCSI drive in the case or if it was a SASI-ST506 bridgecard and drive in the case.... From esharpe at uswest.net Tue Oct 14 22:24:42 2003 From: esharpe at uswest.net (ed sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:29 2005 Subject: air filters References: <078401c39287$036692c0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <00dd01c392cb$e3d3f0c0$0100a8c0@SONYDIGITALED> one thing I always had respect for was getting the correct filter... anything else was fair game for the duct tape and bailing wire but did NOT want crashes! Thanks Ed Sharpe archivist for SMECC Please check our web site at http://www.smecc.org to see other engineering fields, communications and computation stuff we buy, and by all means when in Arizona drop in and see us. address: coury house / smecc 5802 w palmaire ave glendale az 85301 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jay West" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2003 12:11 PM Subject: Re: air filters > > Though this does make one think that it may not be that hard to steal the > > paper filter from an existing (larger) HEPA filter , cut it to the proper > > size, and hot melt it into the old filter casing... > > Of course, bear in mind you're in for some spectacular crashes if the filter > media you get at home depot doesn't have exactly the same airflow (density) > as the one you replace. The air flow through the filter media is very > carefully calculated to get the right amount of air into the media cavity so > the heads can fly on that cusion of air. I seem to recall the head disk gap > on a 7906 is about 20 microinches or so? I don't think I'll be playing "test > the unknown filter media" games anytime soon. > > Jay > > --- > [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > > > From esharpe at uswest.net Tue Oct 14 22:42:44 2003 From: esharpe at uswest.net (ed sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:29 2005 Subject: VCF 6.0 pictures References: <000001c392ae$5a626af0$947ba8c0@p933> Message-ID: <00f301c392ce$65909bc0$0100a8c0@SONYDIGITALED> great pictures thanks for sharing! all wonderful things! ed sharpe ----- Original Message ----- From: "Erik S. Klein" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2003 4:53 PM Subject: VCF 6.0 pictures > I added descriptions to the pictures and integrated the VCF 6 stuff with > the rest of my site. Feel free to check out > www.vintage-computer.com/vcf6.shtml and please let me know what you > think, especially if I missed something, misidentified someone or > otherwise messed up. > > The show was truly awesome this year. I can't wait to hear the > attendance numbers from Sellam. I'm pretty sure records were broken. > > The displays were amazing, as always, and the computers were incredible > as well. It's fun to realize that you were in the same building as 3 of > the maybe 30 or 40 remaining Apple Is in existence. There were two > equally rare Mark-8s in attendance and several other machines that you > just don't see every day. > > Thanks! > > Erik Klein > www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum > The Vintage Computer Forum > > > From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Wed Oct 15 01:43:51 2003 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:29 2005 Subject: cctalk Digest, Vol 2, Issue 13 In-Reply-To: <200310141809.00900.pat@purdueriots.com>; from pat@purdueriots.com on Wed, Oct 15, 2003 at 01:09:00 %z References: <3F8B6335.1030106@mdrconsult.com> <3F8BEDB8.111F8DAF@compsys.to> <200310141809.00900.pat@purdueriots.com> Message-ID: <20031015064351.GE350776@MrPomeroy2> On 2003.10.15 01:09 Patrick Finnegan wrote: > I've got a DSD880, does anyone know if there's a "HyperDiagnostic" > pair of numbers I can use to format a floppy as an RX01/RX02? I don't know if this will help you, but: I have a MXV21 QBus to SA800 RX02 emulating 8" floppy controller. (With a 5.25" drive.) I use the folowing on a MicroVAX boot prompt to start a format: Single density d/p/w 20001E78 9 d/p/w 20001E7A 92 Double density d/p/w 20001E78 109 d/p/w 20001E7A 92 -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From meltie at meltie.com Wed Oct 15 06:31:03 2003 From: meltie at meltie.com (Alex White) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:29 2005 Subject: InfoServer emulator? Message-ID: <200310151231.03548.meltie@meltie.com> Does anyone have any information on the InfoServer emulator project for OpenVMS/Alpha? alex/melt From waltje at pdp11.nl Wed Oct 15 08:38:11 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:29 2005 Subject: InfoServer emulator? In-Reply-To: <200310151231.03548.meltie@meltie.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 15 Oct 2003, Alex White wrote: > Does anyone have any information on the InfoServer emulator project for > OpenVMS/Alpha? Dunno about that project, but I am indeed working on a LASTport service in C, as a companion to the MOP and LAT services I already did. Will be quite a while before it gets out, but: it will. --f From vcf at siconic.com Wed Oct 15 02:08:06 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:29 2005 Subject: ICL DRS6000 Message-ID: Anyone have info on the ICL DRS6000? Bob Garner is seeking it out. See below. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 23:52:14 -0700 From: Bob Garner To: vcf@siconic.com Subject: VCF Feedback! Looking for any info you might have on an old ICL DRS6000, got one sitting here just being used as a table for now Regards Bob -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From RCini at congressfinancial.com Wed Oct 15 10:21:32 2003 From: RCini at congressfinancial.com (Cini, Richard) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:29 2005 Subject: Cleaning my closet Message-ID: <69DBC74E5784D6119BEA0090271EB8E5FA3E8A@MAIL10> Hello, all: I'm doing some spring cleaning (six months late) and I'm offering this stuff up to the list first. Items are as-is and last status, if remembered, is listed. I know that a few are pretty common, but I feel bad about just pitching them into the dumpster without at least offering them up first. I may ultimately resort to selling some on eBay if no one wants them. Some items are heavy and would need a local pickup. My location is Nassau County, New York (Long Island). Here's the list: * MacPortable (non-backlit). Working when last used, with spare batteries, desktop charger and carrying case. Screen has a line of bad pixels near the bottom. * PC/Convertible. Working although battery is shot. I believe that I have boot disks for this, too. * PC Portable. Working; very clean. Very heavy (really a PC with a handle). Comes with some software but I haven't taken a complete inventory. Might be shippable by UPS. * DEC MicroVAX 1 in tower case with spare parts (including RD52 drives and spare boards). Working last time I used it 3 years ago. Has Ultrix v.4 on it (no distribution disks unfortunately). Very heavy. Pickup only. * 3 Pentium Pro 200 MHZ/256k CPUs. Unmatched steppings (SL22V, SL22T, SL22M). When using in an SMP configuration, steppings should be the same. I ran into this when setting-up the dual-CPU ProLiant server at home. * Apple Ethernet CS card (part number M3065Z/A) for late-model Macs. * Promise Technologies EIDE4030T caching IDE card for VL bus. As I recall, this was the "bee's knees" of IDE cards in the 486 era. * Spare Kilobaud magazines: 12/78, 1/79 * Spare BYTE magazines: 12/77, 1/78, 1/81, 6/81, 7/81, 11/81, 12/81, 1/82, 10/83, 9/85, 10/85 (2), 2/86, 6/86, 10/86, 11/86, 9/87, 10/87 Payment? Trade or cost of shipping. Here's what I'm looking for: * S-100 video board with docs/SW. * Ciarcia SB180 single-board computer. * Altair documents/manuals for my Altair32 emulation project (reminder, http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/Altair32.htm) * Broken arcade game in upright cabinet with monitor (horizontal configuration; for MAME project). Will have to work something out on the shipping due to its size and weight. This one probably best if local. * Plastic case for the KIM-1 * 6502 pod for Fluke 9010A troubleshooter * 6502-related magazines * Other?? Please contact me off-list at xyzzy_r_cini@nospam.optonline.net (remove xyzzy, underscores and nospam.) if anyone's interested. Thanks. Rich Cini From meltie at meltie.com Wed Oct 15 10:37:17 2003 From: meltie at meltie.com (Alex White) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:29 2005 Subject: InfoServer emulator? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200310151637.17007.meltie@meltie.com> On Wednesday 15 Oct 2003 2:38 pm, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > On Wed, 15 Oct 2003, Alex White wrote: > > Does anyone have any information on the InfoServer emulator project > > for OpenVMS/Alpha? > > Dunno about that project, but I am indeed working on a > LASTport service in C, as a companion to the MOP and LAT > services I already did. > > Will be quite a while before it gets out, but: it will. Oh wow, fantastic! I'd got an inkling of a full InfoServer emulator and I did feel that a set of lastport services would have been a better task to embark on... From arcarlini at iee.org Wed Oct 15 11:27:47 2003 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:29 2005 Subject: InfoServer emulator? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001101c39339$454ed8c0$5b01a8c0@athlon> I'd completely forgotten about that - although it was a project to provide LAD/LAST services on OpenVMS Alpha (i.e. allow an Alpha to serve disks the same way an InfoServer does). Never heard much about it since, but you can try asking in comp.os.vms and see what they say. Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From aek at spies.com Wed Oct 15 11:34:05 2003 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:29 2005 Subject: ICL DRS6000 Message-ID: <200310151634.h9FGY52x019897@spies.com> Someone had one, and mentioned Bob Garner. He probably won't be very happy to hear what the guy did to it. http://eelco.prutsclub.nl/pruts/drs6000.html From sipke at wxs.nl Wed Oct 15 11:51:17 2003 From: sipke at wxs.nl (Sipke de Wal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:29 2005 Subject: ICL DRS6000 References: <200310151634.h9FGY52x019897@spies.com> Message-ID: <01ce01c3933c$8e10eaa0$030101ac@boll.casema.net> Yuk! I'm almost ashame to be dutch after reading this .... Sipke de Wal http://xgistor.ath.cx ----- Original Message ----- From: "Al Kossow" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2003 6:34 PM Subject: Re: ICL DRS6000 > > Someone had one, and mentioned Bob Garner. He probably won't be very happy > to hear what the guy did to it. > http://eelco.prutsclub.nl/pruts/drs6000.html From TRASH3 at splab.cas.neu.edu Wed Oct 15 14:11:24 2003 From: TRASH3 at splab.cas.neu.edu (TRASH3@splab.cas.neu.edu) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:29 2005 Subject: Manual for GTSC 304 Message-ID: <031015151125.13394@splab.cas.neu.edu> I will forward your request to Al, who has all the manuals for scanning. If he has not disposed of the manual yet, we will get it to you. Joe Heck From wrljet at yahoo.com Wed Oct 15 16:06:09 2003 From: wrljet at yahoo.com (Bill Lewis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:29 2005 Subject: PDP-11/34A's, 11/05, PDP-8/I backplane for sale in Northern VA In-Reply-To: <200310151719.h9FHJ1H5083511@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20031015210609.91464.qmail@web13605.mail.yahoo.com> Any interest among the group in a couple of PDP-11/34A machines and one 11/05? The two 11/34A's are in the 10-1/2" boxes. They each have core memory. I think 128K but I'm not sure. Have the calculator keyboard style front panel. Have the printset for the CPU. The 11/05 is the 5-1/4" box. Has core memory, interface card for paper tape reader/punch, and some other stuff. Plus the add-on upgrade core memory in another 5-1/4" box. I think it's 64K words total. Toggle switch front panel. Have the prints on the CPU and some other related documentation. No racks, and no other peripherals. Some UNIBUS cables and a few other random cards. The machines have been out of use for quite some time and are dusty, and I don't know if they work, but it's purely an as-is deal. Additionally, I have a PDP-8/I backplane available. No front panel and no cards. For pickup in person only, near Washington DC. Anybody here want to make me an offer before I put 'em on eBay? Bill __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com From ohh at drizzle.com Wed Oct 15 16:33:06 2003 From: ohh at drizzle.com (O. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:29 2005 Subject: DEC Pro 350 For Sale Message-ID: <3F8DBD12.D7E5B86E@drizzle.com> Hey, all: I'm meeting the nicest people lately. :) I've run into someone who has a DEC Pro 350 which he'd like to sell to a respectful owner. Here's his description of the system: > DEC Pro-350 (circa fall 1983) > 10GB drive > 2 400K floppies (400K each? 800K each? now I don't remember) > VT-220 style keyboard and display > hang-on copyholder for the monitor > vertical stand for the system unit > all P/OS diskettes and manuals > RSX-11M disks and manuals (some are copies) > Original boxes (unsure of the condition) > > LA-100PC printer > extra ribbons (if I can find them) - reinkable > some rom cartridges including Epson MX-80 emulation (again - if I can > find them) > no box - sorry > > The BIOS battery is probably dead by now, but it's 3 AAA nicads if I > remember. Other than that, it's ready to go. I found it an encouraging sign that he regretted not having the original printer box. :) Anyway, anyone who has an interest and/or questions and/or offers can contact the owner directly. His name's Ron Hansen, his e-mail is , and from the e-mails we've exchanged he sounds like a nice guy. :) Thanks! -O.- From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Oct 15 17:05:49 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:29 2005 Subject: air filters In-Reply-To: <20031014190442.GI12185@rhiannon.rddavis.org> from "R. D. Davis" at Oct 14, 3 03:04:42 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2225 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20031015/70c222fc/attachment.ksh From jpero at sympatico.ca Mon Oct 13 12:04:12 2003 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:29 2005 Subject: Found this. In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20031010213229.007d7d20@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <20031013210222.GAOQ9290.tomts13-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Saw this on our local newsgroups (kingston.forsale) Contact him not me please! quote: Contact: jrpart@excite.com Available are: QTY Description ----- ------------- 250 - Green LED Rectangular 5mm x 2mm (just the right size to slide into the cooling slots of a PC Case front bezel). 8000 - Red LED 5mm Diameter, Sharp P/N: GL5PR4 available in bags of 250 and boxes of 2000. 125 - TIL-311 Hexadecimal Dot Matrix Display with integral TTL driver electronics to accept, store & display 4-bit binary data, Epoxy package 8 - TIL-311A Hexadecimal Dot Matrix Display with integral TTL driver circuit to accept, store & display 4-bit binary data, Plastic package For a copy of the TIL311 Datasheet see: http://www-s.ti.com/sc/ds/til311.pdf and it is mirrored at http://umwnt1.physics.lsa.umich.edu/mttc/images/til311.pdf 9900 - 100 Ohm, 5%, 1/4 Watt Carbon film resistor, available in packages of 100 and boxes of 5000. Use it as a current limiting resistor to drive the above LEDs from a 3.3 Volt Supply. 3500 - 220 Ohm, 5%, 1/4 Watt Carbon film resistor, available in packages of 100. Use it as a current limiting resistor to drive the above LEDs from a 5 Volt Supply. 3800 - 680 Ohm, 5%, 1/4 Watt Carbon film resistor, available in packages of 100. Use it as a current limiting resistor to drive the above LEDs from a 12 Volt Supply. Here is the pricing including shipping on prepaid orders, COD is available for an additional $6.50. All parts/components are only sold in full packages. - Bag of 250 LEDs, $30 including shipping to anywhere in Canada - Box of 2000 LEDs, $155 including shipping to anywhere in Canada - 100 Resistors, $5 including shipping to anywhere in Canada - 5000 Resistors, $30 including shipping to anywhere in Ontario - 5000 Resistors, $35 including shipping to anywhere in Canada outside of Ontario Here is the pricing for the soldercup DB-25 connectors. The pricing is identical for Male and Female connectors. For either type, the contact surfaces have three micron Gold plating. All prices include tax: 1 - 49 pieces at $1.44 each 50 - 99 pieces at $1.21 each 100 pieces or more at $0.96 each The TIL311 and TIL311A Displays are $11 each (less than half of their wholesale price) For the DB-25 connectors and TIL311 displays the shipping is extra, since shipping charges depend on weight. So E-mail me for a quote if you want multiple items from the above list shipped. Please include your Postal Code. To purchase, e-mail me, in return I'll send you my address, phone number and payment instructions. Contact: jrpart@excite.com unquote. Wizard From chejmw at acsu.buffalo.edu Thu Oct 16 06:35:30 2003 From: chejmw at acsu.buffalo.edu (James M. Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:29 2005 Subject: air filters References: Message-ID: <006301c393d9$9a9be480$317ecd80@chem.buffalo.edu> Well, I've made my comments about the IQ/Intellectual level of "most" of the employees there however, seriously, you can't expect these people to know what you are talking about. For those with an interest in "POSSIBLY" restoring your older computer equipment. Go to Home Depot, pick a Free copy of the "PRO" catalog and take it home and thumb through it. If you are really serious about, not paying off the national debt to get stuff to keep your equipment back in operation. I go there, on slow days, and just walk around looking at things, that COULD be used to make/repair other things. Some of the items I have picked up and used were for: 6 meter portable beam antenna, 70 Cm Quad helical antenna, also for 1296, 1460 and 2304 Mhz antennas. Heavy duty Aluminum angle 1 X 1 for supports inside rack cabinets. 2 in. dia X 1/4 in thick aluminum tubing, used for vertical supports and also to make stands for my antenna test range. Hardware, loads, but you have to go there with a plan, as there "are" some unlikely candidates that show up. As for filters and filter materials, yes they indeed have various configurations of HEPA filters and also a lot of rather unique type as well. I might also mention, there are some older folks that work in these places that do indeed know what the heck they are about, lots of them are former employees of the very "Old Fashioned" hardware shops you mentioned, I think it was adapt or go hungry, that brought them to the Home Depot, they are some of them very knowledgeable and also extremely helpful! Just a THOUGHT Jim WB2FCN General Practicioner of the Electronic Art! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2003 6:05 PM Subject: Re: air filters > > > > Quothe John Lawson, from writings of Tue, Oct 14, 2003 at 02:13:43PM -0400: > > > PS: Just try asking a Home Depot Associate for a HEPA Filter that fits > > > your DEC RL02.... ;} > > > > Isn't that a mean thing to do? ;-) After all, some of the clerks in > > Oh, I don't know... It's no worse that going to one of those 'we build > computers to your specification' places and giving them the specification > for a PDP10 :-) :-) :-) > > > those stores get rather confused when one asks for some basic hardware > > for home repairs, such as "real" windows panes---that is, wavy with > > lead in them, or for the square center shaft of a doorknob... items > > that one could find in "real" hardware stores. It never ceases to > > Tell me about it :-(. Electronics shops are the same. At one time there > were places where you could get just about any component ever made... Now > we end up having to special-order 2.5mm jack sockets (OK, 3/32" submini > phone jacks to you) and quincuncial DIN plugs.... > > > amaze me how much in the way of actual hardware, from the right > > washer, hinge, bolt or pulley, to the right type of paint, one could > > find in a small hardware store with wooden floors and narrow aisles as > > A simple test. Look for a thin layer of dust over everything. This means > the place hasn't been cleaned for decades, so there's a good chance that > useful parts, last made 30 years ago, will still be on the shelf > somewhere, rather than having been thrown out. > > > opposed to not being able to find what one wants in those huge > > so-called hardware stores that sell everything from warped knotty wood > > And the princes i nthsoe sort of places (at least in the UK) are often a > factor of 2 or 3 higher than you pay in a _real_ hardware shop.... > > And don't get me started on the tools that such places fail to stock. > Those places seem to think that twist drills go up in 0.5mm steps, > whereas real tool shops stock them in at least 0.05mm steps, and possibly > 0.01mm steps (!). They stock a couple of different pairs of pliers, a > real tool shop stocks several dozen. And so on... > > As I've said before, I'm not rich enough to buy cheap tools, but that's > all these modern hardware stores seem to sell, so I don't bother... > > -tony > > From najay at najay.com Wed Oct 15 23:40:45 2003 From: najay at najay.com (george najarian) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:29 2005 Subject: hp 10391b inverse assembler toolkit availability Message-ID: <200310161333.h9GDXpH3086173@huey.classiccmp.org> last year you posted a link to the 10391b inverse assembler toolkit on HP (agilent)'s website. That link is not longer valid. Would it be possible to get a copy of the files from you, or a valid url/ftp link? I actually bought the disk with my hp1670a years ago but can't find it. Thanks for any help! George Najarian Najay Engineering, Inc. From vcf at siconic.com Thu Oct 16 03:00:33 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:29 2005 Subject: air filters In-Reply-To: <006301c393d9$9a9be480$317ecd80@chem.buffalo.edu> Message-ID: On Thu, 16 Oct 2003, James M. Walker wrote: > For those with an interest in "POSSIBLY" restoring your older computer > equipment. Go to Home Depot, pick a Free copy of the "PRO" catalog and > take it home and thumb through it. If you are really serious about, not > paying off the national debt to get stuff to keep your equipment back in > operation. I go there, on slow days, and just walk around looking at > things, that COULD be used to make/repair other things. I constructed my PDP-8 replica with materials all found at Home Depot (or Lowes since it's closer, but the people at HD in my area are pretty helpful). Their breadth of selection does have its limitations though. > I might also mention, there are some older folks that work in these > places that do indeed know what the heck they are about, lots of them > are former employees of the very "Old Fashioned" hardware shops you > mentioned, I think it was adapt or go hungry, that brought them to the > Home Depot, they are some of them very knowledgeable and also extremely > helpful! Many are also ex-tradesmen who do know their stuff. As with all situations, you can't go in there with preconceived notions that they're all idiots or else you'll ignore the person who really would be able to help you. I'm sure it's rare, but even Radio Shack has the occasional "diamond in the rough". -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From holger.veit at ais.fhg.de Mon Oct 13 09:25:23 2003 From: holger.veit at ais.fhg.de (Holger Veit) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:29 2005 Subject: TinyC, port to HP In-Reply-To: <3F8701D0.7080904@jetnet.ab.ca>; from bfranchuk@jetnet.ab.ca on Fri, Oct 10, 2003 at 01:00:32PM -0600 References: <006b01c38f5a$60b7e940$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <3F8701D0.7080904@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <20031013162523.A32188@ct-mail.citytraffic.de> On Fri, Oct 10, 2003 at 01:00:32PM -0600, ben franchuk wrote: > Jay West wrote: > > I am looking for full source code for a *VERY* tiny C compiler written in > > any common assembly language. I'm much more concerned with size of the > > compiler than functionality/features. Can anyone suggest one or know where > > the source might by laying around? I thought I had heard ages ago about some > > microcomputer C compilers being well under 32K. > > > > As to how this relates to classiccmp... well.. *blush* I'm actually thinking > > of porting C to the HP2100. The whole thing has to fit in 32K of ram, > > including drivers, etc. Not sure what OS it will be placed on, perhaps > > HP-IPL/OS. Might make a simple native OS for it or might even make it > > standalone, not sure yet. > > C requires a stack pointer and a index register.Offhand I don't think > your hardware supports that. Certain HP2xxx do have index registers (the ones with the EIG instructions IIRC), but guess how FORTRAN compilers handle indexed array accesses (this is pointer math). There is FORTRAN for HPs, so it is possible (there are microcode extensions for HP1000 to speed up multiple dimensional array acesses, but you don't really need them in all cases). There is C for the HP/1000 available from interex.org (HP1000 CSL) which has been released some time ago. This was written for RTE-IVB or RTE-6/VM, it might be portable to pre-MEF machines. C does not need a stack pointer although the original PDP implementaions took advantage of it. It is attractive to base one's parameter passing on a stack data structure, including recursion, but you can always replace this by different structures for housekeeping. > The Honeywell H316 had a high level langauge PL516 > that might be easyier to port. > http://www.series16.adrianwise.co.uk/ > The PDP-8 is said to have a pascal compiler, that may > be another idea. Pascal, in particular because of its procedure nesting, and thus a rather tricky way of accessing variables in higher-level scopes, is much more relying on a stack than C does. The PDP-8 and the HP2xxx are with this respect both dumb in a similar way. And if it works with a PDP-8.... Holger From dave at mitton.com Mon Oct 13 11:03:24 2003 From: dave at mitton.com (Dave Mitton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:29 2005 Subject: Seiko RC-1000 wrist terminal software req? Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.2.20031012195254.03acb690@mail.comcast.net> Does anyone have a copy of the host system software for the circa 1984 Seiko RC-1000 watch terminal? I thought I had a copy that ran on DOS as a character mode app, but I cannot find the original diskette. The original PC I used is long gone. Dave. From meltie at meltie.com Mon Oct 13 11:26:44 2003 From: meltie at meltie.com (Alex White) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:29 2005 Subject: Multi-CPU Qbus VAXen In-Reply-To: <200310101704.h9AH4ge32450@abort.crash.com> References: <200310101704.h9AH4ge32450@abort.crash.com> Message-ID: <200310131726.44521.meltie@meltie.com> On Friday 10 Oct 2003 6:04 pm, Steven M Jones wrote: > Alex White wrote: > > I've been planning a monster like this, 4 small backplanes mounted > > in a hacked-around wide cabinet, 4 processors running as a VAXcluster > > over Ethernet... Been done before? > > If you're running them as a LAVC (Local Area VAXCluster, used to be any > cluster using Ethernet instead of CI) then this was done all the time > and I'm sure still is. They probably haven't called them LAVC's for > years and years, though. > > If you're saying you're going to interconnect the backplanes per the > discussion here and in MicroNote #26, then if people did it it was a > not a very common thing. And as others have pointed out, the normal > OS candidates won't have support for it. That's not a reason to stop > the project, just be aware of the necessary effort. > > --S. I thought it too obvious a project for it not to have been done. No, just four totally seperate 4-slot Q22 backplanes sharing a common PSU (OK, i'm hardly going for 5x9 uptime and redundancy here!) in a largish deskside case and clustered over thinwire - was going to look for KA660s so I could share a DSSI disk too. Could multiple hosts use a SCSI bus? Unfortunately the amount of VAXen (and therefore available CPUs) over here in the UK is a LOT smaller than in the US! alex/melt From scott_kennedy at siemens.com Mon Oct 13 11:59:20 2003 From: scott_kennedy at siemens.com (Kennedy Scott) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:29 2005 Subject: HP 82120A Message-ID: Saw your post about the HP 41C and the 5 battery packs. Interested in selling 1? Best Regards, Scott Kennedy From tomj at wps.com Mon Oct 13 13:22:57 2003 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:29 2005 Subject: ASR33 Teletype interfacing In-Reply-To: <200310131508.h9DF8gH5075481@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <200310131508.h9DF8gH5075481@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <1066068883.12064.17.camel@linux.local> > Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 09:04:11 -0400 > From: Ian Primus > Subject: Re: ASR33 Teletype interfacing > >> I have been attempting to get my ASR33 teletype connected to something > >> and communicating, but so far I have not been successful. I have built > > Teletypes are inductive loads. Though they only want 20 mils, the > > voltage needs to be high to get the initial magnet pull-in (basic RL > > theory). ASR33 loops were generally run at 100V or so, but I run my > > Model 28 at 14V, with non-perfect error rate, and I don't use the > > keyboard. > > I take it that the voltage isn't that crucial, just the current? Yes, but higher voltage means the in-rush current will reach 20mA faster (the RL time constant doesn't change, just absolute values).(I kinda lied when I said it wasn't subtle; there are subtleties. But they're not of the pee-cee interface kind. The Old Guys who worked all this stuff up were as smart or smarter than us; it's best to read old source material for this kind of trivia.) > > The keyboard and printer are IN SERIES. If you hit keys while it's > > printing you foul it up. Normal. > > What about on a full duplex machine? Is it the same, or are they > separate? Yes, but most teletype equip was half-duplex (two wires). > > I've done one of these fairly recently, and if poked with a > > not-too-sharp stick, I'll scan the schematic and pu on my website. > > *poke* > > > > If it's not too much trouble, I'd like to see it. From what I have > heard, there are lots of ways to do this, and i would be very > interested to see how you did it. OK, I'll get to it this week and post URL here. Everyone's interface is better than everyone else's, mine included :-) Be skeptical. Simplest isn't always most reliable, it depends on what you're trying to do: punch 1000 feet of error-free tape a mile away? Or just make the tty dance for an afternoon of fun? I cobbled up a PIC-based board that does ITA2 (aks "baudot") to ASCII, motor control, etc for a Model 28 teletype. It fits a particular project of my own. The source for it is at http://wps.com/projects scroll down for "PIC BASED PROJECTS" or something. tomj From meltie at meltie.com Mon Oct 13 13:30:33 2003 From: meltie at meltie.com (Alex White) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:29 2005 Subject: Multi-CPU Qbus VAXen In-Reply-To: <003e01c391b3$04437890$5b01a8c0@athlon> References: <003e01c391b3$04437890$5b01a8c0@athlon> Message-ID: <200310131930.33888.meltie@meltie.com> On Monday 13 Oct 2003 6:54 pm, Antonio Carlini wrote: > > No, just four totally seperate 4-slot Q22 backplanes sharing > > a common PSU > > (OK, i'm hardly going for 5x9 uptime and redundancy here!) in > > a largish > > Wouldn't this just be essentially 4 BA23s in a rackmount type > of enclosure? If so, they would each have their own PSU. I > don't know about the various configs that DEC sold officially, > but the ones I put together by scrounging round the lab were > always stacks of BA23s and a distribution panel of some sort. Well, i'm looking at what's available to me *now* and that's an old collector friend of mine with quite a few PDP11 Q18/22 backplanes and R400X cabs (amongst other things!) who's thinning his collection down rather drastically... > > deskside case and clustered over thinwire - was going to look > > for KA660s > > so I could share a DSSI disk too. Could multiple hosts use a SCSI bus? > > AFAICR the KA660 will happily work in a BA23 but if you want DSSI > you need the proper cab kit, which needs a BA2xx or BA4xx case. > So now you are back to back-to-back mounted BA213 or BA430 in a rack. Whoops, I totally forgot about the magic DSSI backplane >_< thanks for reminding me! > > Unfortunately the amount of VAXen (and therefore available > > CPUs) over here in the UK is a LOT smaller than in the US! > > Nah. You just need to look harder, or more likely, for longer. They > crop up but you have to work at it. There's plenty of stuff on > reseller's shelves and it will all become available over the next > ten to twenty years or so as they close up shop or move on to > other things. The real problem will be what to do when that happens: > do you save both the VAX 8650 and the VAX 9000 and how can you > have them both running on the Internet at the same time. > > Of course, if you're not in this for the long haul ... :-) I haul these things around with me from University flat to University flat. The girlfriend is happy for my collection to grow - she passed me an ebay UK link to a 6200 a few months or so ago and said that she'd quite like to have one around *grins* alex/melt From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Mon Oct 13 18:00:04 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:29 2005 Subject: Vintage collection for sale In-Reply-To: <009201c38f52$9a57a030$8e21fea9@sergej> Message-ID: arse! (this is a UK term for frustration) I can get to Holland very easily indeed, but do I have a job to allow me to buy such toys? No. Hence, ARSE! Atari 5200? Mmmmm Sorceror? Mmmmm Atari TT030? Mmmmm SX64? Mmmmm Actually, that's it. I've surprised meself :) cheers -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( > -----Original Message----- > From: cctech-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctech-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Collection 4 Sale > Sent: 10 October 2003 18:19 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: Vintage collection for sale > Importance: High > > > Please see > > http://www.fossilicon.com/collectionsale > > for details and pictures > > > thanks, > > Sergej From kbudd at solace.net Mon Oct 13 18:23:22 2003 From: kbudd at solace.net (K.C. Budd) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:29 2005 Subject: Roland LAPC-1 Card Message-ID: Hello. I just ran across a message where you were asking someone else if they still had any Roland LAPC-1 cards. I have one that has been on my shelf for years. Do you want it? As far as I know it works, but it hasn't been in a PC in over 8 years. I'll mail it to you if you'd like. If it works, you can give me whatever you think it's worth. If not, you can just have it. :-) The board has the following inscription on it: MODEL LAPC-I ROLAND ASSY 75420300 00 MADE IN JAPAN Let me know! -K.C. kbudd@solace.net From kenacms at ngatoro.terrigal.net.au Tue Oct 14 08:16:33 2003 From: kenacms at ngatoro.terrigal.net.au (Ken Kirkby (ACMS)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:29 2005 Subject: Manual for GTSC 304 In-Reply-To: <002601c38f53$8f24d880$0300a8c0@yourfn86qv5dxz> from "scott@californiasystem.com" at Oct 10, 3 10:25:53 am Message-ID: <200310141308.h9ED8FD23212@ngatoro.terrigal.net.au> > > Hi Joe, > > I would like to get the entire manual for GTSC 304 new/old version if > you still have them available. > > Thanks. > > Scott Yu > California Systems > 2650 Walnut Ave., Suite B > Tustin, CA 92780 > T: 714-832-5444 > F: 714-832-5445 > I can do a copy if he doesnt. Ken Kirkby PLC Peripherals Terrigal Australia > From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Wed Oct 15 01:22:45 2003 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:29 2005 Subject: Update: VAXen available. Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.2.20031014231507.027d6100@66.125.189.29> Ok, the folks at www.auctionbdi.com have put these out in their current auction (which ends Sunday, October 19th at midnight pacific time. The lot numbers are as follows: SJ-97 for the 3400s, MV2, and 4000/300. Plus a pair of skis? SJ-98 for the VAX in the H9644 cabinet with the SCSI drives (the door says MicroVAX 3600 I believe). SJ-99 is the pallet of mixed stuff I believe. (The pictures aren't up yet...) --Chuck --------------------- Previous Email ... A number of VAXen are available this week from www.auctionbdi.com. I gave them all of my "spares machines" which I cannot store and no one in the Bay Area wanted. The good news is that BDI will ship them to you pretty much anywhere in the country and the minimum bid is $25. The lot to look for has 3 MV3400's (in BA213 cases), one VAX 4000/300 (in a BA440 case) and one MicroVAX II in a pedestal BA23 case. I don't recall how complete they are, I do thing the 4000/300 is complete except for some DSSI plugs which I needed to bring my 3800 on line. Two of the 3400's have the front "door" (one says MicroVAX 3400, one says VAXServer 3400). If you've got a 3400 or 4000/300 there are plenty of parts to "enhance" your system. I believe the 4000/300 has 192MB of memory but can't swear to it) There is also a MicroVAX 3600 in a H9644 rack. This one I've never looked at in depth other than to note that it has a 4 SCSI drives and a tape but a gap where the SCSI controller had been. Given that it couldn't talk to the disks I pretty much ignored it. Finally there are some PC parts with a nice 17" NEC 5fg monitor (including the special NEC VGA cable). The monitor is nice but not an "Energy Saver" (it stays on as long as power is applied, no standby mode) Probably not of interest to this crowd but I thought I would mention it. --Chuck From billdeg at degnanco.com Wed Oct 15 09:21:56 2003 From: billdeg at degnanco.com (B.Degnan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:29 2005 Subject: Seeking TED chips, 8501R1 (for C plus/4 and C 16's) Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20031015101851.00a46090@mail.degnanco.net> Does anyone in this group know of a vendor/source that sells/ships the TED chips, 8501R1 - I have a few plus/4's with bad processors. Please email billdeg@degnanco.com. I know that they are hard to find, but I have hope that some one here may have a contact. I could buy another plus/4 from Ebay, but I would like to avoid this. Bill Wilmington, Delaware. From joseph.polinsky at bme.gatech.edu Wed Oct 15 11:34:35 2003 From: joseph.polinsky at bme.gatech.edu (Joseph Polinsky) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:29 2005 Subject: Kaypro Message-ID: <000001c3933a$3bbbde60$d8863d80@radrn4fdy1n1ni> Hello, I saw your posting for a Kaypro 10. Do you still have it?? If so please let me know and I will get back to you. Thank you J.P. From s0507649 at fhtw-berlin.de Wed Oct 15 15:57:53 2003 From: s0507649 at fhtw-berlin.de (s0507649@fhtw-berlin.de) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:29 2005 Subject: question about the TI-52 Message-ID: <3F8DD0F1.10683.15BC8E7@localhost> Hi, my name is Tobias and i own a TI-52 calculator. As it was given to me, i'd really like to program it(thoug it's as old as me). But this model is too old, and i can't get a manual for it. So i'd like to enquire whether you know how to get a manual for the TI-52. Thanks in advance! best regards Tobias Petschke From najay at najay.com Wed Oct 15 23:40:45 2003 From: najay at najay.com (george najarian) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:29 2005 Subject: hp 10391b inverse assembler toolkit availability Message-ID: <200310160450.h9G4ojH3085028@huey.classiccmp.org> last year you posted a link to the 10391b inverse assembler toolkit on HP (agilent)'s website. That link is not longer valid. Would it be possible to get a copy of the files from you, or a valid url/ftp link? I actually bought the disk with my hp1670a years ago but can't find it. Thanks for any help! George Najarian Najay Engineering, Inc. From timothy.p.radde at lmco.com Thu Oct 16 08:36:14 2003 From: timothy.p.radde at lmco.com (Radde, Timothy P) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:29 2005 Subject: PDP-11/34A's, 11/05, PDP-8/I backplane for sale in Northern VA Message-ID: <6485684CCD23CE4FA95B7FA02A2A5C0D139288@EMSS04M12.us.lmco.com> Hi, I saw your post on pdp stuff. How near Washington? I live near Philadelphia, PA. It would be about a 4 hour drive for me. Is the stuff spoken for yet? Tim R From classiccmp at crash.com Thu Oct 16 12:11:06 2003 From: classiccmp at crash.com (Steven M Jones) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:29 2005 Subject: Multi-CPU Qbus VAXen Message-ID: <200310161711.h9GHB6e07116@abort.crash.com> Alex White wrote: > > Well, i'm looking at what's available to me *now* and that's an old > collector friend of mine with quite a few PDP11 Q18/22 backplanes I picked up bare Q22 backplanes in case I find out I have Q18's in some of the cruft I've collected. Like a weird 3 backplane rack box, each backplane roughly the size of the one from a BA23. And there's a VT103 (incl. Qbus) that I'm not sure of... Hopefully your friend has these in some nice BA-series boxes of some kind. > [ DSSI clustering ] To my mind the hardest part is getting the cables for this. I've been keeping my eyes open here in the States, and only just a short time ago got two. The seller thought (understandably) they were a strange type of SCSI cable and listed them as such. Thank goodness for the pictures on eBay... ;^) > I haul these things around with me from University flat to > University flat. Ooof! I wouldn't want to move "real computers" every three to six months... > The girlfriend is happy for my collection to grow - she passed > me an ebay UK link to a 6200 a few months or so ago and said > that she'd quite like to have one around *grins* A woman of such sophistication and refined taste is clearly a keeper. Make concessions, write a permanent To-Do item for some flowers, or whatever else is necessary... --S. From jpl15 at panix.com Thu Oct 16 12:40:14 2003 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:29 2005 Subject: More info on posting delays Message-ID: Issit Me - or innit - dunno! But I note this, as I try to wrap my head around the intricaies of how bytes get from one place to another place.. ----------------cut n paste---------------------------- Received: from huey.classiccmp.org (huey.classiccmp.org [209.145.140.36]) by mail3.panix.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B220098214; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 13:00:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from huey.classiccmp.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by huey.classiccmp.org (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h9GGjaH5086939; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:45:38 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org) Received: from linux.local ([128.195.166.138]) by huey.classiccmp.org (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h9DIMuH3076162 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 13:22:56 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from tomj@wps.com) Received: by linux.local (Postfix, from userid 500) id A6B2C378DC; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 11:14:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Jennings To: cctalk@classiccmp.org In-Reply-To: <200310131508.h9DF8gH5075481@huey.classiccmp.org> ------------end cut n paste----------------- I see there is quite a delay between two of the entries - 3 days. As Arte Johnson used to say on Laugh-In: "Veeeeeeeery Eeeenteresting!" And here at work, the plague of Worms and Virii and other pests is rising exponentially - might need a firewall for the firewall... even this poor old Shell account is geeting waves of Spam - interesting to see the procession of 'topic cycles' - from Medicine in Canada to On-line Poker to Cable Descramblers to, umm... body part Enhancers. ;} And now for something rather more on-topic: Want to buy RL02 drive(s) with daisy-chaining cables and a terminator or two - will pay for shipping - contact off-list - I'm in Carson City, Nevada - 89706. (USA units only, of course.) Cheers John From cb at mythtech.net Thu Oct 16 13:22:54 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:29 2005 Subject: Windows package questions Message-ID: I've looked around and I can't find my answer, so I'm asking here as I'm hoping a collector will know. I have a box and manual here marked "Microsoft Windows & MS-DOS Operating System Plus Enhanced Tools". I'm trying to determine what version of windows it is. I'd look in the manual, or look at the disks, but the package is still shrink wrapped and I don't want to open it. There is no outer box with version info as this was a "Distribution Only With A New PC" version. The manual is all white, with black text. No logos, no nothing. The only other things on the package are the Cert of Auth card (number 603301052) that has a PN 0-1258 in the bottom corner... and a sticker marking that the package has 3.5 diskettes. I was guessing Win 3.1 and DOS 6.2, but I thought DOS 6.2 only came on 3.5 disks, and so the label would seem redundant. So then I wondered if is was an older version of DOS, and thus maybe an older version of Windows. Like I said, I've searched, but was unable to turn up anything (found one ebay hit that sounds like they are selling the manual, but it doesn't say in the listing what version its for, and there is no pic so I can't compare and be sure). I'm hoping there is someone on the list that might have what I have described and can tell me what version of Windows and DOS is inside. TIA -chris From vcf at siconic.com Thu Oct 16 06:08:54 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:29 2005 Subject: PDP-11/34A's, 11/05, PDP-8/I backplane for sale in Northern VA In-Reply-To: <6485684CCD23CE4FA95B7FA02A2A5C0D139288@EMSS04M12.us.lmco.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 16 Oct 2003, Radde, Timothy P wrote: > I saw your post on pdp stuff. How near Washington? I live near Philadelphia, PA. It would > be about a 4 hour drive for me. Is the stuff spoken for yet? I could ignore the first 2, the 3rd tested me, but I've broken down on the 4th. These do come in waves, don't they? I'll bet someone could base a pretty interesting graduate thesis on this phenomena and land a prestigious position in some research institute somewhere in the world. Any takers? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From jpl15 at panix.com Thu Oct 16 15:46:10 2003 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:29 2005 Subject: Old but off-topic: Yamaha CS-80 Synth Message-ID: Right before I go to eBay with this - I know there are a couple or three Musicians here - I have a 1977 Yamaha CS-80 8-voice polyphonic synth for sale. I thought to take a chance on Classiccmp - one never knows... If you know what this is, and you're interested, please contact me off-list for more details. I have the Service Manual for it, which is now made purely of Unobtanium. Hey - it *does* have a special-pupose computer chip in it: the Keyboard Scanner / Note Multiplexer is a very early CMOS mask-programmed "PLA" sort of thingy... so I'm not too far off-base here. Cheers John From rickb at bensene.com Thu Oct 16 15:47:07 2003 From: rickb at bensene.com (Rick Bensene) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:29 2005 Subject: question about the TI-52 References: <3F8DD0F1.10683.15BC8E7@localhost> Message-ID: <000801c39426$bbef8310$d766a8c0@wrickben02> Hello, I'm sorry, but this machine is too "new" for me to have any information on. I specialize in desktop and early portable electronic calculators only, from the early 1960's, through the early '70's. The SR-52 is a handheld machine, and it outside my area of interest and expertise. All I can suggest is to search the web for any TI calculator websites (there are some that I've heard of), or post a message on the "Vinatage Calculator Forum" at http://www.dotpoint.com/vintage, and see if someone there might be able to help you. Regards, Rick Bensene The Old Calculator Web Museum http://oldcalculatormuseum.com ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2003 1:57 PM Subject: question about the TI-52 > Hi, my name is Tobias and i own a TI-52 calculator. As it was given to me, i'd really like > to program it(thoug it's as old as me). > But this model is too old, and i can't get a manual for it. > > So i'd like to enquire whether you know how to get a manual for the TI-52. > > Thanks in advance! > > best regards > Tobias Petschke > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Oct 16 15:34:31 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:29 2005 Subject: TinyC, port to HP In-Reply-To: <20031013162523.A32188@ct-mail.citytraffic.de> from "Holger Veit" at Oct 13, 3 04:25:23 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 352 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20031016/fe61b4ea/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Oct 16 15:41:11 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:29 2005 Subject: air filters In-Reply-To: from "Vintage Computer Festival" at Oct 16, 3 01:00:33 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1237 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20031016/2f6d5da8/attachment.ksh From jwest at classiccmp.org Thu Oct 16 16:21:25 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:29 2005 Subject: Old but off-topic: Yamaha CS-80 Synth References: Message-ID: <01c801c3942b$74d497e0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> CS-80 is a Wonderful Machine... specially for knobtwiddlers. Wish I had some spare cash... Jay --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Thu Oct 16 16:20:42 2003 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:29 2005 Subject: TinyC, port to HP References: Message-ID: <3F8F0BAA.7000906@jetnet.ab.ca> Tony Duell wrote: >>>C requires a stack pointer and a index register.Offhand I don't think >>>your hardware supports that. >> >>Certain HP2xxx do have index registers (the ones with the EIG instructions >>IIRC), but guess how FORTRAN compilers handle indexed array accesses > > > Err, self-modifying code? That was the traditional way to do this sort of > thing. I think the PC is noted more more self-modifying code than the old machines. The only real self modifying code (on your typical early machine) is the fact the return address is placed in the first word of subroutine code. > -tony > From jwest at classiccmp.org Thu Oct 16 16:28:04 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:30 2005 Subject: TinyC, port to HP References: Message-ID: <01d301c3942c$629af460$033310ac@kwcorp.com> > > > C requires a stack pointer and a index register.Offhand I don't think > > > your hardware supports that. Actually.... I happen to have obtained years ago an HP firmware board which has user written microcode on it specifically for implementing stack operations. Comes with a 1/2 inch thick set of notes by the person at the university lab who wrote the code :) I had forgotten that I had a copy of the book "Hendrix: Small-C"... until I saw the responses to this thread. So I went running to my favorite bookshelf where I kept it next to Rheingolds "data structures"... and my small-c book is gone :( Must have loaned it over the years. Anyone happen to have a spare copy? I looked at a few used book places online and didn't see it :\ Jay West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From arcarlini at iee.org Thu Oct 16 16:43:12 2003 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:30 2005 Subject: air filters In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <006101c3942e$89327e20$5b01a8c0@athlon> > we end up having to special-order 2.5mm jack sockets (OK, > 3/32" submini phone jacks to you) and quincuncial DIN plugs.... I heard that used to mean both five pins in an X shape (with one in the centre) and five pins roughly equally spaced around the circumference of a circle. But I've never heard it with specific reference to a DIN plug - I've previously always heard them called five-pin-DIN. I'll remember to mention this when I'm next in Maplins ("What's a din then?") Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From dwight.elvey at amd.com Thu Oct 16 17:50:30 2003 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:30 2005 Subject: TinyC, port to HP Message-ID: <200310162250.PAA16314@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "ben franchuk" > >Tony Duell wrote: >>>>C requires a stack pointer and a index register.Offhand I don't think >>>>your hardware supports that. >>> >>>Certain HP2xxx do have index registers (the ones with the EIG instructions >>>IIRC), but guess how FORTRAN compilers handle indexed array accesses >> >> >> Err, self-modifying code? That was the traditional way to do this sort of >> thing. > >I think the PC is noted more more self-modifying code than the old >machines. The only real self modifying code (on your typical early >machine) is the fact the return address is placed in the first word >of subroutine code. > >> -tony >> Hi I don't call this self modifying. Where you have a port command like the 8080 and you overwrite the port address before executing, now that is self modifying. Something like over writing an add instruction with a subtract would qualify as self modifying. Placing the address at the beginning is no different than pushing the address onto a stack, other than that it isn't reentrant ( with out extra code and then not for interrupts ). The first address isn't code, it is a variable space. The executed code never changes. My Nicolet uses the entry address saving method. In any case, I never understood the stigma of using self modifying code. It does require careful documentation if it is expected to be maintained. There is no reason why it can't be as robust as any other code if done properly. I suspect it was used as a sales talk when someone was trying to pitch their version of code to be better than someone else's. Such things as overlays would qualify as more risky uses of self modifying code but that is done without mention. Dwight From shirsch at adelphia.net Thu Oct 16 17:55:25 2003 From: shirsch at adelphia.net (Steven N. Hirsch) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:30 2005 Subject: Xebec Apple II controller In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.22.2.20031011183532.04984040@mail.zipcon.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 11 Oct 2003, Geoff Reed wrote: > dug up an apple II that has a Xebec apple II controller init, is this a > SCSI controller? or is it a SASI host interface that's gonna need an > external SASI<->ST506 controller on it? That's a SASI interface and unlikely to work with any actual SCSI-1 device. As you guessed, they were intended to interface with early-80s vintage "bridge" controllers like the Adaptec ACB4xxx and 5xxx series. Xebec actually made a SASI hard-drive for the early Sider subsystems, BTW. Steve From fernande at internet1.net Thu Oct 16 18:17:51 2003 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:30 2005 Subject: Update: VAXen available. In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.22.2.20031014231507.027d6100@66.125.189.29> References: <6.0.0.22.2.20031014231507.027d6100@66.125.189.29> Message-ID: <3F8F271F.3040001@internet1.net> Chuck McManis wrote: > SJ-97 for the 3400s, MV2, and 4000/300. Plus a pair of skis? Looks like they used the lot number twice. Somebody may end up with a surprise! Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Oct 16 18:43:09 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:30 2005 Subject: air filters In-Reply-To: <006101c3942e$89327e20$5b01a8c0@athlon> from "Antonio Carlini" at Oct 16, 3 10:43:12 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1600 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20031017/d00c8d15/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Oct 16 18:47:07 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:30 2005 Subject: air filters In-Reply-To: <078401c39287$036692c0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> from "Jay West" at Oct 14, 3 02:11:47 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 904 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20031017/2d1ac07a/attachment.ksh From eric at brouhaha.com Thu Oct 16 19:14:16 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:30 2005 Subject: air filters In-Reply-To: <006101c3942e$89327e20$5b01a8c0@athlon> References: <006101c3942e$89327e20$5b01a8c0@athlon> Message-ID: <2983.4.20.168.106.1066349656.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> >> we end up having to special-order 2.5mm jack sockets (OK, >> 3/32" submini phone jacks to you) and quincuncial DIN plugs.... > > I heard that used to mean both five pins in an X shape (with > one in the centre) and five pins roughly equally spaced > around the circumference of a circle. But I've never heard > it with specific reference to a DIN plug - I've previously > always heard them called five-pin-DIN. I'll remember to > mention this when I'm next in Maplins ("What's a din then?") Note that for some pin counts, there are DIN connectors with the pins positioned differently. I'm not sure whether these are really part of the DIN standard. For instance, there are at least three different pin arrangements for 5-pin DIN connectors. One has all five pins spaced around a 180 degree arc. One has a 240 degree arc. And one has four pins evenly spaced around the full circle, with a fifth pin in the center. Similar variations exist in the 7-pin connectors. I think the 240-degree 5-pin plug can be mated with a 6-pin DIN socket, but I have not verified that. Some things sold as circular DIN connectors are compliant with the DIN standard, some with an IEC standard, and some with neither. A few minutes searching with Google did not reveal the designations of the actual DIN and IEC standards, though I don't want to buy them in any case. From eric at brouhaha.com Thu Oct 16 19:14:16 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:30 2005 Subject: air filters In-Reply-To: <006101c3942e$89327e20$5b01a8c0@athlon> References: <006101c3942e$89327e20$5b01a8c0@athlon> Message-ID: <2983.4.20.168.106.1066349656.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> >> we end up having to special-order 2.5mm jack sockets (OK, >> 3/32" submini phone jacks to you) and quincuncial DIN plugs.... > > I heard that used to mean both five pins in an X shape (with > one in the centre) and five pins roughly equally spaced > around the circumference of a circle. But I've never heard > it with specific reference to a DIN plug - I've previously > always heard them called five-pin-DIN. I'll remember to > mention this when I'm next in Maplins ("What's a din then?") Note that for some pin counts, there are DIN connectors with the pins positioned differently. I'm not sure whether these are really part of the DIN standard. For instance, there are at least three different pin arrangements for 5-pin DIN connectors. One has all five pins spaced around a 180 degree arc. One has a 240 degree arc. And one has four pins evenly spaced around the full circle, with a fifth pin in the center. Similar variations exist in the 7-pin connectors. I think the 240-degree 5-pin plug can be mated with a 6-pin DIN socket, but I have not verified that. Some things sold as circular DIN connectors are compliant with the DIN standard, some with an IEC standard, and some with neither. A few minutes searching with Google did not reveal the designations of the actual DIN and IEC standards, though I don't want to buy them in any case. From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu Oct 16 19:06:44 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:30 2005 Subject: More info on posting delays In-Reply-To: John Lawson "More info on posting delays" (Oct 16, 13:40) References: Message-ID: <10310170106.ZM2835@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Oct 16, 13:40, John Lawson wrote: > ----------------cut n paste---------------------------- > > Received: from huey.classiccmp.org (huey.classiccmp.org > [209.145.140.36]) > by mail3.panix.com (Postfix) with ESMTP > id B220098214; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 13:00:45 -0400 (EDT) > Received: from huey.classiccmp.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) > by huey.classiccmp.org (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id > h9GGjaH5086939; > Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:45:38 -0500 (CDT) > (envelope-from cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org) > Received: from linux.local ([128.195.166.138]) > by huey.classiccmp.org (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id > h9DIMuH3076162 > for ; > Mon, 13 Oct 2003 13:22:56 -0500 (CDT) > (envelope-from tomj@wps.com) > Received: by linux.local (Postfix, from userid 500) > id A6B2C378DC; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 11:14:43 -0700 (PDT) > From: Tom Jennings > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > In-Reply-To: <200310131508.h9DF8gH5075481@huey.classiccmp.org> > > > ------------end cut n paste----------------- > > I see there is quite a delay between two of the entries - 3 days. As > Arte Johnson used to say on Laugh-In: "Veeeeeeeery Eeeenteresting!" But schtupid :-) Those headers show that it took a few minutes to get tpo huey.classiccmp.org (acting as receiver) -- that might be just mismatch between the clocks -- and then 3 days to get to be forwarded (from the same machine!). I've noticed a few headers with delays since we last discussed this, but none quite as extreme! However, I can think of some possible reasons. In this case, I'd guess that for some reason (maybe the sender isn't subscribed, or sent from an address that differs in some way from the address he subscribed with) the message had to be moderated -- we rely on Jay's goodwill and free time to do that, and if he's busy, I imagine that he does the really obvious ones in batches where he doesn't really need to examine them closely, and some get held over for a closer look when time permits. He also has to sleep and eat sometimes! In some other cases I've noticed, where the delay is a few hours, the same reasoning might still apply, even to messages sent by a subscriber. If you send to the list, and your headers give a different username, hostname, or domainname than the one you used to subscribe, it will need to be moderated. Another possibility is that any kind of DNS lookup failure -- including a slow response -- could cause the sending process on huey to requeue the message. This happens a lot with people who use dynamic DNS services and try to run their own mailserver on an ADSL line. They forget that even though they can update the DNS within a few seconds (or usually several minutes) when their IP address changes, most of the rest of the world that's interested in them has already cached the old data and it doesn't expire for a while (I've know it take days). Yet another possibility right now, with all the viruses, and floods of mail saying "we didn't deliver your mail because it had a virus and we're too stupid to read the headers and see they're forged"[1] (not mentioning AOL or certain other ISPs) is that some ISPs are finding their mail servers swamped and hence slow. The ISPs that have suddenly put virus-checking in place are particularly badly off, because the scanning takes several times as many computrons as simple mail handling does. huey might try to deliver a message and not be able to at some particular instant, so it gets requeued. I've seen this happening on our mailservers at work (we can easily handle what we're getting and sending, but sometimes outgoing mail is queued because the recipient's servers can't). The above also happens a lot with ADSL users trying to run their own servers, because right now some of them are getting hit with lots of spam and virus-generated crap. However, that wouldn't explain why you saw such a delay (since panix is not a little linux box on the end of a DSL line). [1] Several viruses currently forge the "From" line, making it seem that email from some infected machine actually came from a different user/machine. Easy to spot if you bother to look, but lots of people -- even serious ISPs -- don't. There are lots of other possibilites. Most mail transport agents, like sendmail, have several built-in timeout functions, to cover various eventualities. Sendmail has loads of them, mostly short, but the net effect is that if some check or lookup takes too long, the associated email is queued. Most MTAs only run the queues periodically (common settings in sendmail are every 15 or 30 minutes) so you see that if some recipient has some systematic problem (like bad/slow DNS, or being hammered by DOS attacks or viruses) it doesn't take many delivery attempts for the delay to mount up *for that recipient*. One I came across the other day was that one sendmail was trying to do an ident lookup on incoming mail. The ident protocol is an old and not very useful way of trying to validate a sender's username; not many people run ident daemons so if a recipient's server tries to do this validation, it can take tens of seconds for it to decide it's not going to get anywhere with it. Meanwhile, the sender may give up. Another one I've seen, though not for a little while, is using an out-of-date blackhole list -- depending on how the recipient server checks blackhole lists, it might take a long time to decide whether to accept a message, and meanwhile -- you guessed it -- the sender has given up waiting and requeued the mail. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From frustum at pacbell.net Fri Oct 17 00:05:46 2003 From: frustum at pacbell.net (Jim Battle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:30 2005 Subject: TinyC, port to HP In-Reply-To: <200310162250.PAA16314@clulw009.amd.com> References: <200310162250.PAA16314@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <3F8F78AA.7040807@pacbell.net> Dwight K. Elvey wrote: ... > In any case, I never understood the stigma of using self > modifying code. It does require careful documentation if > it is expected to be maintained. There is no reason why > it can't be as robust as any other code if done properly. > I suspect it was used as a sales talk when someone was > trying to pitch their version of code to be better than > someone else's. Such things as overlays would qualify as > more risky uses of self modifying code but that is done > without mention. Obvious drawbacks -- doesn't work if you ROM the code indeterminate behavior on certain chips that have instruction caches. the data cache snoops and invalidates the write address, but the instruction cache doesn't snoop and so requires an explicit flush (eg, the i860). even if the icache snoops the write, it can have a performance impact depending how often the code is modified since it can result in a full instruction pipe flush. even without caches, there can be a race between the data being written and the instruction fetch path. some self modifying code that works reliably on a 386 may not work on a 486. in an interrupt driven environment, such code is unlikely to be reentrant/thread safe/interrupt safe. it is harder to maintain. but, I agree, sometimes a coder has to do what a coder has to do. From nico at farumdata.dk Fri Oct 17 00:25:26 2003 From: nico at farumdata.dk (Nico de Jong) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:30 2005 Subject: TinyC, port to HP References: <200310162250.PAA16314@clulw009.amd.com> <3F8F78AA.7040807@pacbell.net> Message-ID: <000801c3946f$12fc2120$2101a8c0@farumdata.dk> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Battle" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > > In any case, I never understood the stigma of using self > > modifying code. It does require careful documentation if > > it is expected to be maintained. There is no reason why > > it can't be as robust as any other code if done properly. > > I suspect it was used as a sales talk when someone was > > trying to pitch their version of code to be better than > > someone else's. Such things as overlays would qualify as > > more risky uses of self modifying code but that is done > > without mention. I remember a case where I had to port a Cobol program for invoicing from a mini (Singer ?) to Siemens 2002. There was not much fuzz logically, as the compilers were quite compatible, seen from the outside. What took me some days to find out, was that the program sometimes executed routines it wasnt supposed to, e.g. housekeeping whilst in the middle of an invoicing routine. The reason was, that some ALTER TO PROCEED TO were used, well documented etc., so that was not the problem. The problem was, that when the system had to reload pages, it wouldnt reload the swapped page, but the original, so my GOTO was ruined.... Needless to say, that the ALTERS were eliminated. Nico From waltje at pdp11.nl Fri Oct 17 04:21:32 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:30 2005 Subject: Seiko RC-1000 wrist terminal software req? In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.2.20031012195254.03acb690@mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 13 Oct 2003, Dave Mitton wrote: > Does anyone have a copy of the host system software for the circa 1984 > Seiko RC-1000 watch terminal? > > I thought I had a copy that ran on DOS as a character mode app, but I > cannot find the original diskette. The original PC I used is long gone. I *used* to have one of those (actually, just threw out my broken watch a couple of weeks ago) but I do seem to remember I still have the box... that might still have the cable and the floppies. Will look for ya :) --f -- Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist Visit the VAXlab Project at http://www.pdp11.nl/VAXlab/ Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Sunnyvale, CA, USA From waltje at pdp11.nl Fri Oct 17 04:22:47 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:30 2005 Subject: Vintage collection for sale In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 14 Oct 2003, Witchy wrote: > arse! (this is a UK term for frustration) > > I can get to Holland very easily indeed, but do I have a job to allow me to > buy such toys? No. > > Hence, ARSE! Ade, relax. I'll go and grab it for ya. --f -- Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist Visit the VAXlab Project at http://www.pdp11.nl/VAXlab/ Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Sunnyvale, CA, USA From jwest at classiccmp.org Fri Oct 17 07:37:46 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:30 2005 Subject: upcoming classiccmp wierdness Message-ID: <004501c394ab$77af4700$033310ac@kwcorp.com> I finally have carved out a little time to work on the sendmail config for huey (the classiccmp list server). I know exactly what needs to be done and there are several ways to do it, I'm not sure which way is best. Hence, I will be experimenting a bit today and possibly over the week. During that time, expect some oddity from the list. I'll keep you posted on the progress. Trivia note - Why did I name the classiccmp list server machine huey? The first computer I ever used was an HP 2000 TSB system in highschool. It's name was Huey. I couldn't resist the nostalgia. We also had a PDP-11/03 with RT-11 & TSX-plus. It was named Dewey. So if classiccmp ever gets split to another machine, it will be called (you guessed it) Dewey. Three? Well, Louie of course :) Jay West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From RCini at congressfinancial.com Fri Oct 17 07:48:29 2003 From: RCini at congressfinancial.com (Cini, Richard) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:30 2005 Subject: upcoming classiccmp wierdness Message-ID: <69DBC74E5784D6119BEA0090271EB8E5FA3EB2@MAIL10> And of course there should be an "Uncle Donald" around there somewhere :-) -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Jay West Sent: Friday, October 17, 2003 8:38 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: upcoming classiccmp wierdness I finally have carved out a little time to work on the sendmail config for huey (the classiccmp list server). I know exactly what needs to be done and there are several ways to do it, I'm not sure which way is best. Hence, I will be experimenting a bit today and possibly over the week. During that time, expect some oddity from the list. I'll keep you posted on the progress. Trivia note - Why did I name the classiccmp list server machine huey? The first computer I ever used was an HP 2000 TSB system in highschool. It's name was Huey. I couldn't resist the nostalgia. We also had a PDP-11/03 with RT-11 & TSX-plus. It was named Dewey. So if classiccmp ever gets split to another machine, it will be called (you guessed it) Dewey. Three? Well, Louie of course :) Jay West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From kandres at epssecurity.com Fri Oct 17 07:56:27 2003 From: kandres at epssecurity.com (Kevin Andres) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:30 2005 Subject: ASR33 Late comments Message-ID: Message: 16 Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 09:04:11 -0400 From: Ian Primus Subject: Re: ASR33 Teletype interfacing To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Message-ID: <67FFB9E5-FBEB-11D7-86CD-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed I am late in an response to this ASR33 discussion but the comments here definitely hit some memory banks buried deep. In the early 70's, I recall that 120VDC was the source for 60ma current loop to teletype, and it seems to me that "full-duplex" had the send side sourced from the teletype and the receive side sourced from the connected transmission equipment. There was something special that was done to "echo" at the local printout any typed keys, It seems that it was jumpers at the transmission equipment between the incoming "xmit" current and the outgoing "Rcvd" current, again it must have put them in series. It also rings in my head that the interfaces changed when 20ma came out and they could not be intermixed. A machine would be either 60ma or 20ma and required an overhaul to change it. 20ma was a result of reduced physical part requirements for robustness and EMF splatter reduction. Test equipment of the time put out "RY's", and that was almost a perfect square wave at 120Vdc, 60ma as I remember. I have conveniently forgotten most of what we did to repair these units, but I do remember a tank where the units were given a bath in something??? If air couldn't get things cleared and freed up, it got a bath then a complete relube???!!!! The comments to "running open were correct. That is the sign that no current was available to the unit. The current kept it "held". On Thursday, October 9, 2003, at 04:52 PM, Tom Jennings wrote: >> I have been attempting to get my ASR33 teletype connected to something >> and communicating, but so far I have not been successful. I have built >> the interface here : >> http://www.daedalus.co.nz/~don/computing/20mahack.html > > > It wont work, sorry... > Somehow I'm not surprised. Something told me that it was too simple to work properly. > Teletypes are inductive loads. Though they only want 20 mils, the > voltage needs to be high to get the initial magnet pull-in (basic RL > theory). ASR33 loops were generally run at 100V or so, but I run my > Model 28 at 14V, with non-perfect error rate, and I don't use the > keyboard. I take it that the voltage isn't that crucial, just the current? > The keyboard and printer are IN SERIES. If you hit keys while it's > printing you foul it up. Normal. What about on a full duplex machine? Is it the same, or are they separate? > Because it's inductive, it makes a spike when yuo turn the voltage off. > You need to suppress this with a diode, a resistor and capacitor, for > example. > > They're not subtle interfaces, and weren't meant to be. > > If you just want to print, you can rig up a power transistor, two > resistors, a diode, and a high-voltage DC power supply to do the trick, > and drive it from the serial port. > > If you want to receieve also, you can use another transistor and > resistor to pick off the change in loop current that happens when you > press keys which open the loop, and drive the serial port. > > I've done one of these fairly recently, and if poked with a > not-too-sharp stick, I'll scan the schematic and pu on my website. *poke* If it's not too much trouble, I'd like to see it. From what I have heard, there are lots of ways to do this, and i would be very interested to see how you did it. Thanks! Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.528 / Virus Database: 324 - Release Date: 10/16/2003 From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Oct 17 07:59:48 2003 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (AHS Mail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:30 2005 Subject: Nice Apple /// References: <3F8DBD12.D7E5B86E@drizzle.com> Message-ID: <000c01c394ae$8c3d8c10$1e02a8c0@WNYC1145744> Not mine, Nice Apple /// setup, disk drive, diskettes, manual and more on Ebay: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2758567660&category=4610 From jwest at classiccmp.org Fri Oct 17 08:54:43 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:30 2005 Subject: testing Message-ID: <007301c394b6$381ba380$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Just testing... please ignore. Jay West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From evan947 at yahoo.com Fri Oct 17 09:41:11 2003 From: evan947 at yahoo.com (evan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:30 2005 Subject: Funny vintage gaming article Message-ID: <20031017144111.31831.qmail@web14007.mail.yahoo.com> http://www.egmmag.com/article2/0,4364,1338730,00.asp From jwest at classiccmp.org Fri Oct 17 09:44:40 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:30 2005 Subject: testing number 2 Message-ID: <008901c394bd$324ddfc0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> testing again - please ignore --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From dwight.elvey at amd.com Fri Oct 17 12:23:10 2003 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:30 2005 Subject: TinyC, port to HP Message-ID: <200310171723.KAA17031@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Jim Battle" > >Dwight K. Elvey wrote: >... >> In any case, I never understood the stigma of using self >> modifying code. It does require careful documentation if >> it is expected to be maintained. There is no reason why >> it can't be as robust as any other code if done properly. >> I suspect it was used as a sales talk when someone was >> trying to pitch their version of code to be better than >> someone else's. Such things as overlays would qualify as >> more risky uses of self modifying code but that is done >> without mention. > >Obvious drawbacks -- > >doesn't work if you ROM the code > >indeterminate behavior on certain chips that have instruction caches. >the data cache snoops and invalidates the write address, but the >instruction cache doesn't snoop and so requires an explicit flush (eg, >the i860). > >even if the icache snoops the write, it can have a performance impact >depending how often the code is modified since it can result in a full >instruction pipe flush. > >even without caches, there can be a race between the data being written >and the instruction fetch path. some self modifying code that works >reliably on a 386 may not work on a 486. > >in an interrupt driven environment, such code is unlikely to be >reentrant/thread safe/interrupt safe. > >it is harder to maintain. > >but, I agree, sometimes a coder has to do what a coder has to do. > > Hi I should have mentioned the issues with instruction caches and pipelines. After all, our K8 is heavy into this. I was thinking more in terms of small micros or even in the case where there is a well defined cache that can be used to advantage. Anytime one does something out of the ordinary, one needs to make it clear all of the restrictions and such of how it is to be used. One of the examples of how a known cache can be to advantage is like the adsp2100 works. It has a 6 instruction cache so that it can do things like over write the current instructions in memory for an overlay while running the loader code from the cache. It does need the interrupts disabled but this can be handy for something like a flash update. Dwight From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Fri Oct 17 12:55:43 2003 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:30 2005 Subject: TI-52 manual Message-ID: Actually the first calculator I bought in graduate school was a TI-52, I still have it and the manual. Please email me an address and I will email you a scan of the manual. My battery packs are shot but I have saved them. I also have the case. The 52 could do factorials and logs. It was really handy for computing probabilities using factorials for my statistics classes. When I first went to college they had a remedial class for students who didn't know how to use a slide rule. I already knew how since my grandfather gave me one in 6th grade. I used a slide rule all through college until 1975 when I bought a calculator. Mike m m c f a d d e n a t c m h . e d u > Hi, my name is Tobias and i own a TI-52 calculator. As it was given to me, i'd really like > to program it(thoug it's as old as me). > But this model is too old, and i can't get a manual for it. > > So i'd like to enquire whether you know how to get a manual for the TI-52. > > Thanks in advance! > > best regards > Tobias Petschke > From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Fri Oct 17 13:08:59 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:30 2005 Subject: upcoming classiccmp wierdness In-Reply-To: <004501c394ab$77af4700$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <3F904C5B.17240.569BDD1@localhost> > Trivia note - Why did I name the classiccmp list server machine huey? The > first computer I ever used was an HP 2000 TSB system in highschool. It's > name was Huey. I couldn't resist the nostalgia. We also had a PDP-11/03 with > RT-11 & TSX-plus. It was named Dewey. So if classiccmp ever gets split to > another machine, it will be called (you guessed it) Dewey. Three? Well, > Louie of course :) Well, and if there's a mirror to be set up, I sugest Tick, Trick and Track :) H. P.S.: Yes, most names got translated :) -- VCF Europa 5.0 am 01./02. Mai 2004 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Fri Oct 17 13:11:47 2003 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:30 2005 Subject: upcoming classiccmp wierdness In-Reply-To: <69DBC74E5784D6119BEA0090271EB8E5FA3EB2@MAIL10> References: <69DBC74E5784D6119BEA0090271EB8E5FA3EB2@MAIL10> Message-ID: In message <69DBC74E5784D6119BEA0090271EB8E5FA3EB2@MAIL10> "Cini, Richard" wrote: > And of course there should be an "Uncle Donald" around there somewhere :-) Well, seeing as we're on the subject of machine names, I've been using star names, constellations and Zodiac signs - Polaris, Arcturus, Vega, Rigel, Coriolis and Aquarius have all been used so far. The laptops are named after Star Trek movies and series - Nemesis and Voyager. As for the machines that sit there doing nothing 99% of the time? IJSH and IJST. Guess what IJST and IJSH mean :) I'd be interested to find out what network names/nicknames some other classiccmpers have given their machines. Later. -- Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, philpem@dsl.pipex.com | ViewFinder, Ethernet (Acorn AEH62), http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ | 8xCD, framegrabber, Teletext * <- Tribble # <- Tribble after Borg assimilation From jwest at classiccmp.org Fri Oct 17 13:19:15 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:30 2005 Subject: testing testing Message-ID: <00cb01c394db$2c179ec0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> another test - please ignore --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Fri Oct 17 13:19:09 2003 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:30 2005 Subject: upcoming classiccmp wierdness References: <69DBC74E5784D6119BEA0090271EB8E5FA3EB2@MAIL10> Message-ID: <3F90329D.2050001@jetnet.ab.ca> Philip Pemberton wrote: > I'd be interested to find out what network names/nicknames some other > classiccmpers have given their machines. You can't say that name in public. :) The truth be known, the new machines have no personality so I don't name them. I never had a working classic machine, allways bits and pieces. Ben. PS. ** Frankenstein ** comes to mind, but is not a name I want to use. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Oct 17 13:33:38 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:30 2005 Subject: air filters In-Reply-To: <2983.4.20.168.106.1066349656.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> from "Eric Smith" at Oct 16, 3 05:14:16 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2382 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20031017/32fe9717/attachment.ksh From jwest at classiccmp.org Fri Oct 17 14:24:19 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:30 2005 Subject: still testing Message-ID: <00d701c394e4$433f92c0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> please ignore Not sure sure the problem is sendmail. There is much wailing and gnashing of teeth going on here *sigh* --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From dundas at caltech.edu Fri Oct 17 14:49:28 2003 From: dundas at caltech.edu (John A. Dundas III) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:30 2005 Subject: Recommendations for archiving audio tapes Message-ID: I have a number of old DECUS U.S. Symposium audio tapes that I would like to archive before they completely disintegrate. I have a way to digitize these and store them in a variety of formats. I'm not sure what format is best for archive and distribution, though I assume something like WAV or AIFF for archive and MP3 for distribution. I have no prior experience at this and would appreciate any suggestions on the best approach. Also suggestions on who to contact to make these archives legally available on the web would be welcome. Is anyone else archiving these? As a teaser, here's what I have: 1987 Fall: N008 Understanding Ethernet N037 Cryptographic Security for Ethernet DA054 Optimizing VMS device Drivers for Realtime I/O V104 Tape 1 VAX Magic, War Stories, and Horror Tales V104 Tape 2 1988 Fall: PC031 Internal Enhancements to AppleTalk for VMS NE050 An Introduction to the Digital's Distributed Name Service (DNS) GR054 Renderman: A 3D Scene Description Interface for Computer Graphics System GR033F Computer Graphic and Visualization Thanks, John From geneb at deltasoft.com Fri Oct 17 15:16:31 2003 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:30 2005 Subject: still testing In-Reply-To: <00d701c394e4$433f92c0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: Jay, try Postfix. You'll be a lot happier, really. :) g. On Fri, 17 Oct 2003, Jay West wrote: > please ignore > > Not sure sure the problem is sendmail. There is much wailing and gnashing of > teeth going on here *sigh* > > --- > [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > > From jwest at classiccmp.org Fri Oct 17 15:12:38 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:30 2005 Subject: test please ignore Message-ID: <00f201c394eb$035da500$033310ac@kwcorp.com> testing --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From allain at panix.com Fri Oct 17 16:20:44 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:30 2005 Subject: WICAT up on the auction block. References: <20031017144111.31831.qmail@web14007.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000901c394f4$8723b060$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Well, that's it folks, I've put my WICAT mini up on eBay. No reserve, low starting bid. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2760096059 This system is MC68000 architecture, with Pertec and SMD controllers. If anything it's decent just for it's 5V 100A PSU. ...But I'd rather get people interested in it for it's mind and not just it's body . John A. boy we do get attached to things, don't we. From bshannon at tiac.net Fri Oct 17 16:24:42 2003 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:30 2005 Subject: TinyC, port to HP References: Message-ID: <3F905E1A.803@tiac.net> HP 21MX series CPU's do have index registers, but they are best left unused! Standard HP instructions can perform the same operations FASTER than the absurdly slow X and Y index register functions. Tony Duell wrote: >>>C requires a stack pointer and a index register.Offhand I don't think >>>your hardware supports that. >>> >>Certain HP2xxx do have index registers (the ones with the EIG instructions >>IIRC), but guess how FORTRAN compilers handle indexed array accesses >> > >Err, self-modifying code? That was the traditional way to do this sort of >thing. > >-tony > > From bshannon at tiac.net Fri Oct 17 16:28:19 2003 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:30 2005 Subject: TinyC, port to HP References: <3F8F0BAA.7000906@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <3F905EF3.10509@tiac.net> Oh no, many HP boot loaders use self modifying code. Take a look at the source for the H 264X terminal boot rom, it alters an instruction by using it as the target for an increment-and-skip-on-zero instuction. HP took great pains to squeeze some boot loaders into only 64 words. As a result you have to reload these loaders from ROM each time they run. ben franchuk wrote: > Tony Duell wrote: > >>>> C requires a stack pointer and a index register.Offhand I don't >>>> think your hardware supports that. >>> >>> >>> Certain HP2xxx do have index registers (the ones with the EIG >>> instructions >>> IIRC), but guess how FORTRAN compilers handle indexed array accesses >> >> >> >> Err, self-modifying code? That was the traditional way to do this >> sort of thing. > > > I think the PC is noted more more self-modifying code than the old > machines. The only real self modifying code (on your typical early > machine) is the fact the return address is placed in the first word > of subroutine code. > >> -tony >> > > > > > From jwest at classiccmp.org Fri Oct 17 16:38:20 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:30 2005 Subject: list status Message-ID: <010201c394f6$fbe28d20$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Well, I had a very bad time with mailman and sendmail today. I was assuming the problem was with sendmail. After screwing around with it all day, I'm not so sure the problem is sendmail. I found the following items: 1) A LOT of people on the list have very slow mailservers. This is bad in conjuction with the way mailman queues messages. 2) All the junk email coming into the list gets a "your post awaits moderator approval" return email, and most of those domains don't exist, or have servers that are extremely bogged down, also causing a problem with the way mailman queues messages. 3) Mailman queues messages in very large groups. A single post to the list generates 4 emails, each one with around 150 recipients. When sendmail processes one of these single messages, as it sends to one of the recipients and encounters a VERY slow mail server, everyone else on the recipient list just sits and waits. The delays are... to me... well... horrid. 4) When I set mailman to send one email per recipient, sendmail still only had one runner processing the queue. Of course, the same problem exists them as #3. Everything I tried seemed to make it the same or worse. I tried starting a separate localhost only daemon of sendmail which doesn't do DNS lookups, setting the outbound sendmail daemon for persistant queueing, put in a caching only nameserver on the mailserver, set mailman to send one recipient per message, etc. before running out of time to work on this. I suspect that this all started with the upgraded mailman, this version apparently has it's own message queueing and is very different from previous versions. I've kinda hit the point of not being able to see the forest for the trees, so if someone is up on mailman and sendmail I'd appreciate some insight. If you have some thoughts (besides "dude, switch to using XXXXX for your MTA"), please email me directly so I get the email quickly. In response to the people who have suggested replacing sendmail... I would like to call attention to what the website for mailman says. Bear in mind, the mailman camp is somewhat anti-sendmail, instead favoring qmail, exim, and postfix. However, note what THEY say about sendmail... "Moreover, with appropriate work, sendmail can be configured to be the fastest and highest-volume general-purpose MTA on the planet." This is in the section where they compare sendmail to exim, qmail, and postfix. So I'm not the only one who believes in sendmail. I put things back the way they originally were. I'll ponder it over the weekend. Regards, Jay West jwest@classiccmp.org --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From dwight.elvey at amd.com Fri Oct 17 17:11:05 2003 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:30 2005 Subject: TinyC, port to HP Message-ID: <200310172211.PAA17183@clulw009.amd.com> Hi Bob The boot loader for my Nicolet is similar in that it over writes itself. It fits into about 15 words so it is quite easy to toggle in. They even took advantage of the 'don't care' fields in some instructions to take advantage of minimizing switch changes. Even the memory location is chosen because it is has bits that fit well in adjacent instructions. It is quite remarkable that they can squeeze so much into so few instructions. I have written a boot loader that I use to transfer data to and from an H89 ( Heathkit ) computer that takes about 52 bytes. Most is com port initializing. It was nice when the hardware was jumper configured. The loader would be much smaller. The loader is such that I can send it by email and someone can bring a H89 up from scratch. They just need a couple of blank 10 sectored disks and my code. Later Dwight >From: "Bob Shannon" > >Oh no, many HP boot loaders use self modifying code. > >Take a look at the source for the H 264X terminal boot rom, it alters an >instruction by >using it as the target for an increment-and-skip-on-zero instuction. HP >took great pains >to squeeze some boot loaders into only 64 words. As a result you have >to reload these >loaders from ROM each time they run. > >ben franchuk wrote: > >> Tony Duell wrote: >> >>>>> C requires a stack pointer and a index register.Offhand I don't >>>>> think your hardware supports that. >>>> >>>> >>>> Certain HP2xxx do have index registers (the ones with the EIG >>>> instructions >>>> IIRC), but guess how FORTRAN compilers handle indexed array accesses >>> >>> >>> >>> Err, self-modifying code? That was the traditional way to do this >>> sort of thing. >> >> >> I think the PC is noted more more self-modifying code than the old >> machines. The only real self modifying code (on your typical early >> machine) is the fact the return address is placed in the first word >> of subroutine code. >> >>> -tony >>> >> >> >> >> >> > > > From eric at brouhaha.com Fri Oct 17 18:32:59 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:30 2005 Subject: list status In-Reply-To: <010201c394f6$fbe28d20$033310ac@kwcorp.com> References: <010201c394f6$fbe28d20$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <1587.4.20.168.165.1066433579.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Jay wrote: > However, note what THEY say about sendmail... "Moreover, with > appropriate work, sendmail can be configured to be the fastest and > highest-volume general-purpose MTA on the planet." This is in the section > where they compare sendmail to exim, qmail, and postfix. So I'm not the > only one who believes in sendmail. I interpret "can be" to mean "theoretically, maybe by Eric Allman". In my experience, even mortals who have spent years hacking Sendmail configurations and who are experts at it by any normal person's criteria still tend to have a lot of trouble with it. I run qmail on my main mailserver. I think it's mostly OK, but the license sucks and the code is *very* sparse on comments. It also does not support delivery status notifications per RFC 3461/3464, or even the older RFC 1891/1894. And it does not seem to be under active development. I run Postfix on my backup mailserver. It was incredibly easy to set up and has been completely maintenance-free. It is fully RFC 1891/1894 compliant. I will probably switch to Postfix for my main mailserver soon, but I have become dependent on a few details of the way qmail handles local delivery, so it will be a bit of work. Normally a conversion from Sendmail to Postfix is really easy. However, since you're the one that runs the list (thanks!!!), I think you should run whatever works best for you, even if that is Sendmail. Eric From tothwolf at concentric.net Fri Oct 17 21:30:11 2003 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:30 2005 Subject: air filters In-Reply-To: <2983.4.20.168.106.1066349656.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> References: <006101c3942e$89327e20$5b01a8c0@athlon> <2983.4.20.168.106.1066349656.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 16 Oct 2003, Eric Smith wrote: > Note that for some pin counts, there are DIN connectors with the pins > positioned differently. I'm not sure whether these are really part of > the DIN standard. For instance, there are at least three different pin > arrangements for 5-pin DIN connectors. One has all five pins spaced > around a 180 degree arc. One has a 240 degree arc. And one has four > pins evenly spaced around the full circle, with a fifth pin in the > center. Similar variations exist in the 7-pin connectors. > > I think the 240-degree 5-pin plug can be mated with a 6-pin DIN socket, > but I have not verified that. It can. I have some equipment that uses that exact combination of connectors. -Toth From blstuart at bellsouth.net Fri Oct 17 21:03:46 2003 From: blstuart at bellsouth.net (Brian L. Stuart) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:30 2005 Subject: Naming schemes (was upcoming classiccmp wierdness) Message-ID: <3F909F81.B0E376E8@bellsouth.net> > I'd be interested to find out what network names/nicknames some other > classiccmpers have given their machines. I've been using intellgent computers from sci fi for a while. The laptop I'm using now is called nomad (from Star Trek) and my gateway is called orac (from Blake's 7). I've got some Suns that I hope to have back on-line soon with names like colossus, guardian, hal, m5 and zen. Of course, my daughter wanted me to name her machine fluffy (from Harry Potter) and my wife's is taliesin (from Arthurian legend). BLS From spectre at floodgap.com Fri Oct 17 22:32:54 2003 From: spectre at floodgap.com (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:30 2005 Subject: Naming schemes (was upcoming classiccmp wierdness) In-Reply-To: <3F909F81.B0E376E8@bellsouth.net> from "Brian L. Stuart" at "Oct 17, 3 09:03:46 pm" Message-ID: <200310180332.UAA14130@floodgap.com> > I'd be interested to find out what network names/nicknames some other > classiccmpers have given their machines. Servers are all named after Scandinavian cities (stockholm, oslo [soon], helsinki, reykjavik and thule). Clients are all named after significant people in their development, such as my desktop Mac = bryan (Bryan Stearns), C64 = jack (Tramiel), C128 = bil (Herd), games 486 = Alex (St. John, the former Microsoft DirectX evangelist), PM 7100 = carl (Sagan, after its code name), ... Laptops and portables are all named after dogs, such as rover (SX-64), fido (HP95), spot (PC-4), lassie (PC-2), ... Game systems all have girls' names starting with S: Sylvia (Sylvania Intellivision), Stella (VCS 2600), Sadie (Dreamcast: Dreamcast -> DC -> CD -> "Sadie"). Clusters have anime family names. The cluster I'm thinking of putting together to do distributed Veronica-2 searches will be akane, kasumi and nabiki. There, that's pretty geeky. -- ---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser@floodgap.com -- "The Internet is, once again, your friend" (I wrote this *before* PacBell!) From netsurfer_x1 at fastmailbox.net Fri Oct 17 22:29:40 2003 From: netsurfer_x1 at fastmailbox.net (David Vohs) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:30 2005 Subject: Naming schemes (was upcoming classiccmp wierdness) In-Reply-To: <3F909F81.B0E376E8@bellsouth.net> References: <3F909F81.B0E376E8@bellsouth.net> Message-ID: <20031018032940.AB10F3EA51@www.fastmail.fm> Here are the names for my current systems: Commodore 64C: "Triumph" Original Apple Macintosh: "Leela" Texas Instruments TI-99/4A: "Delorean" (Think about it.) Apple Macintosh Portable: "Monolith" Tandy Color Computer III: "Spectrum" Sharp PC-7000: "Boombox" (That's what I thought it was, until I opened it up!) Tandy 200 Laptop: "Butterfly" Epson QX-10: "Shapeshifter" (This gem has a Titan graphics & MS-DOS board in it, hence the name.) Otrona Attache: "Scout" (Self-explanitory) --Former systems-- Corona Data Systems PPC-XT: "Yugo" Grid GridCase3: "Challenger" (Named after the space shuttle. Oddly enough, this machine started giving off magic smoke plumes, so I tossed it.) --Prospective System-- HP-85: "Mercury" On Fri, 17 Oct 2003 21:03:46 -0500, "Brian L. Stuart" said: > > I'd be interested to find out what network names/nicknames some other > > classiccmpers have given their machines. > > I've been using intellgent computers from sci fi for a while. The > laptop I'm using now is called nomad (from Star Trek) and my gateway > is called orac (from Blake's 7). I've got some Suns that I hope to > have back on-line soon with names like colossus, guardian, hal, > m5 and zen. Of course, my daughter wanted me to name her machine > fluffy (from Harry Potter) and my wife's is taliesin (from Arthurian > legend). > > BLS -- David Vohs netsurfer_x1@fastmailbox.net -- http://www.fastmail.fm - The way an email service should be From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Oct 17 22:35:47 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:30 2005 Subject: Naming schemes (was upcoming classiccmp wierdness) In-Reply-To: <3F909F81.B0E376E8@bellsouth.net> from "Brian L. Stuart" at Oct 17, 2003 09:03:46 PM Message-ID: <200310180335.h9I3ZmeV015241@onyx.spiritone.com> > > I'd be interested to find out what network names/nicknames some other > > classiccmpers have given their machines. For my OpenVMS systems they're typically taken from the "Doc Savage" books. I've got systems such as; DOC, SAVAGE, RENNY, LNGTOM, HAM, and MONK. For my main non-VMS systems I've been using various mythological gods such as odin, zeus, and apollo. Some systems that I rarely use get what they are for the system name, such as 'next' or 'dualxeon'. Of course my SGI O2/270 is a bit obvious, I had to call him Erwin :^) just like my Amiga 3000 is 'amy' (those two are a bit to predictable). Zane From vcf at siconic.com Fri Oct 17 15:38:51 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:30 2005 Subject: Naming schemes (was upcoming classiccmp wierdness) In-Reply-To: <20031018032940.AB10F3EA51@www.fastmail.fm> Message-ID: My naming scheme is easy: Main desktop PC: "Piece of shit running Windows XP" Laptop: "Piece of shit running Windows 2000" Backup PC: "Piece of shit running Windows 98" -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Fri Oct 17 15:40:27 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:30 2005 Subject: DEC AlphaServer 2100 Message-ID: I picked up a DEC AlphaServer 2100 today. Is anyone interested in it? It has what I believe to be a RAID array. I haven't looked inside yet. Anyone interested in making an offer? I don't think I want to keep it. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From rhudson at cnonline.net Sat Oct 18 00:25:05 2003 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:30 2005 Subject: Naming schemes (was upcoming classiccmp wierdness) In-Reply-To: <20031018032940.AB10F3EA51@www.fastmail.fm> Message-ID: <6E29EAE5-012B-11D8-8339-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> I once named a stack of Syquest carts with 3 letter animal names. iBook = this iBook I use... uhgh Sputnik = The toshiba Satellite Box = a lunchbox style machine BoxJr = the "book" sized computer I have. ----"life" based names glider = a small dell laptop beehive = the server quad = another small laptop From meltie at meltie.com Sat Oct 18 04:52:02 2003 From: meltie at meltie.com (Alex White) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:31 2005 Subject: Naming schemes (was upcoming classiccmp wierdness) In-Reply-To: <200310180335.h9I3ZmeV015241@onyx.spiritone.com> References: <200310180335.h9I3ZmeV015241@onyx.spiritone.com> Message-ID: <200310181052.02972.meltie@meltie.com> > > I'd be interested to find out what network names/nicknames some > > other classiccmpers have given their machines. I name my boxxen after vodkas - Stolichnaya, Ursus, Charodei, Rain, Chopin... Ones that don't get much use generally get put down as "3100" or similar though. Network devices get their own explanatory names - gateway, ds300, router etc alex/melt From classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk Sat Oct 18 05:39:19 2003 From: classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk (Rob O'Donnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:31 2005 Subject: Naming schemes (was upcoming classiccmp wierdness) In-Reply-To: <200310181052.02972.meltie@meltie.com> References: <200310180335.h9I3ZmeV015241@onyx.spiritone.com> <200310180335.h9I3ZmeV015241@onyx.spiritone.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20031018113301.03ef7b88@pop.freeserve.net> > > > > I'd be interested to find out what network names/nicknames some > > > other classiccmpers have given their machines. I originally started out naming machines after colours - Red, Orange, Yellow, etc., until I ran out of primary colours. Now, most of the machines here are named after characters out of the Terry Pratchet Discworld books. The main fileserver is called "luggage", for obvious reasons if anybody has read the books.. with getting on for a terrabyte of storage, it must be approaching The Luggage's storage capacity... Some current machines are Angua, Twyla, Detrius, Albert, Susan, Binky... Embedded devices (routers, firewall, etc.) have functional names I'm afraid. From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sat Oct 18 08:40:01 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:31 2005 Subject: Naming schemes (was upcoming classiccmp wierdness) In-Reply-To: "Brian L. Stuart" "Naming schemes (was upcoming classiccmp wierdness)" (Oct 17, 21:03) References: <3F909F81.B0E376E8@bellsouth.net> Message-ID: <10310181440.ZM4339@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> > > I'd be interested to find out what network names/nicknames some other > > classiccmpers have given their machines. Mine are an assortment of groups. The SGIs, which are the largest group that are networked, are mindy (my original Indy), mork (another Indy), mearth (another!), orson (Origin 2000), volgar and exidor (O2s), but the Indigos mostly still have the names they were given by previous owners (dopey, ziggi, mrtoad, ...). My laptop is called dancer because it moves about; the windows PC is called floorbox because it's just a box that sits on the floor. The NeXT slab is predicably called monolith (blame the previous owner). I have a few Acorn machines named after districts around Newcastle (which is where a couple of them came from), and a few other machines (PDP-11s, microVAXen, a couple of Suns, a Mac, etc) named by their previous owners. The network printers are star (a Star Laserprinter8), twinkle (big HP colour deskjet), and coruscor (made up word, an HP LJ5M PostScript printer). Most of the rest are functional names (the GatorBox is gator, the LANmodem is lanmodem, and the ATM switches and bridges are named after their colours: orange (ATM-Ethernet), red (ATM-FDDI), purple (route server), magenta (ATM switch)). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From meltie at meltie.com Sat Oct 18 08:54:53 2003 From: meltie at meltie.com (Alex White) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:31 2005 Subject: Naming schemes (was upcoming classiccmp wierdness) In-Reply-To: <10310181440.ZM4339@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <3F909F81.B0E376E8@bellsouth.net> <10310181440.ZM4339@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <200310181454.53214.meltie@meltie.com> On Saturday 18 Oct 2003 2:40 pm, Pete Turnbull wrote: > > > I'd be interested to find out what network names/nicknames some > > other > > > > classiccmpers have given their machines. > > Mine are an assortment of groups. > > The SGIs, which are the largest group that are networked, are mindy (my > original Indy), mork (another Indy), mearth (another!), orson (Origin > 2000), volgar and exidor (O2s), but the Indigos mostly still have the > names they were given by previous owners (dopey, ziggi, mrtoad, ...). Definately, it's bad luck to rename a machine... alex/melt From eric at brouhaha.com Sat Oct 18 10:00:27 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:31 2005 Subject: Naming schemes (was upcoming classiccmp wierdness) In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20031018113301.03ef7b88@pop.freeserve.net> References: <200310180335.h9I3ZmeV015241@onyx.spiritone.com><200310180335.h9I3ZmeV015241@onyx.spiritone.com> <5.1.1.6.0.20031018113301.03ef7b88@pop.freeserve.net> Message-ID: <33787.64.169.63.74.1066489227.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > I originally started out naming machines after colours - Red, Orange, > Yellow, etc., And Octarine? From zmerch at 30below.com Sat Oct 18 10:18:24 2003 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:31 2005 Subject: Naming schemes (was upcoming classiccmp wierdness) In-Reply-To: References: <20031018032940.AB10F3EA51@www.fastmail.fm> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20031018095922.01c6d980@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Vintage Computer Festival may have mentioned these words: >My naming scheme is easy: > >Main desktop PC: "Piece of shit running Windows XP" >Laptop: "Piece of shit running Windows 2000" >Backup PC: "Piece of shit running Windows 98" I concur... ;-) The machine names I used to use were generally pretty bland; but start with a 'z': zmerch = main work machine zhome = main home machine Secondary name for my home machine: zgoon = dual Athlon MP 2600+'s, dual 3COM NIC, dual SCSI onboard, special 460W PS, 2.5G RAM, 3 HD's, CD-R, DVD-R, firewire, and prolly soon have SATA ;-) zmaggie = wife's machine zkids = kid's machine zfudge = Fujitsu laptop, hate the spelling, so... zms = If I'd ever gotten my DECstation 3100/m38 on the network with TCP/IP, that would have been it... zqms = QMS magicolor2 color laser printer zivo = my TiVo ... however ... It's getting to the point that it's easier just to remember the IP addresses (especially when I tape a label with it to the machine...) so I don't name them anymore. Oh, and I only have one 'full-time' POS (kids machine for kids games) - I usually keep a small Win2K partition for work on most of mine, but they usually spend most of their time in Linux... Wife's machine has *only* Linux, so I'm working on eliminating what I can... ;-) Laterz, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers zmerch@30below.com Hi! I am a .signature virus. Copy me into your .signature to join in! From jcwren at jcwren.com Sat Oct 18 10:41:08 2003 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:31 2005 Subject: Naming schemes (was upcoming classiccmp wierdness) In-Reply-To: <33787.64.169.63.74.1066489227.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> References: <200310180335.h9I3ZmeV015241@onyx.spiritone.com> <5.1.1.6.0.20031018113301.03ef7b88@pop.freeserve.net> <33787.64.169.63.74.1066489227.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <200310181141.08870.jcwren@jcwren.com> Mine are named after sunken subs and ships. Thresher, Titanic, Kursk, Lusitania, Scorpion. Of course, they have aliases that I can actually remember, too, like 'linux', 'gentoo', 'win32', 'printer', 'imac', 'dell'.... A friend of mine names his after types of high-speed winds. --John From jrice54 at charter.net Sat Oct 18 12:17:04 2003 From: jrice54 at charter.net (James Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:31 2005 Subject: Naming schemes (was upcoming classiccmp wierdness) In-Reply-To: <200310181141.08870.jcwren@jcwren.com> References: <200310180335.h9I3ZmeV015241@onyx.spiritone.com> <5.1.1.6.0.20031018113301.03ef7b88@pop.freeserve.net> <33787.64.169.63.74.1066489227.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <200310181141.08870.jcwren@jcwren.com> Message-ID: <3F917590.4090609@charter.net> My NeXT's are named by the model: Nextcube, Nextstation, etc; the Sun's are named for stars: Tau-ceti, Alpha-centuri, Mizar, etc; the Indigos have German first names: Hanz, Arnold, Franz, Werner (original owner names); The later Sgi's are named after where they originated: Lockheed, Boeing, Nortel, Disney; the Mac's are named for moons: Luna, Charon, Phobos, Triton, Io, Europa, Titan, etc; the BeBox is named BeBugs (my 4yo daughter was named it, I guess she didn't hear "box" when she asked me what it was); the others are named by model number or maker (C128D, TandySX, TandyHD, IBM-PC). J.C. Wren wrote: > Mine are named after sunken subs and ships. Thresher, Titanic, Kursk, >Lusitania, Scorpion. Of course, they have aliases that I can actually >remember, too, like 'linux', 'gentoo', 'win32', 'printer', 'imac', 'dell'.... > > A friend of mine names his after types of high-speed winds. > > --John > > > > -- http://webpages.charter.net/jrice54/classiccomp2.html From wrljet at yahoo.com Sat Oct 18 12:18:13 2003 From: wrljet at yahoo.com (Bill Lewis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:31 2005 Subject: PDP-11/34A's, 11/05, PDP-8/I backplane for sale in Northern VA References: <200310181701.h9IH08gI005890@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <013b01c3959b$d05c3840$0300a8c0@WRL> Thanks for all the replies to my post. All the PDP-11 stuff has been paid for, picked up, and has gone to a good home. The PDP-8/I backplane is most likely spoken for. Bill From classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk Sat Oct 18 12:14:46 2003 From: classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk (Rob O'Donnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:31 2005 Subject: Naming schemes (was upcoming classiccmp wierdness) In-Reply-To: <33787.64.169.63.74.1066489227.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com > References: <5.1.1.6.0.20031018113301.03ef7b88@pop.freeserve.net> <200310180335.h9I3ZmeV015241@onyx.spiritone.com> <200310180335.h9I3ZmeV015241@onyx.spiritone.com> <5.1.1.6.0.20031018113301.03ef7b88@pop.freeserve.net> Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20031018181414.03e62ec0@pop.freeserve.net> At 08:00 18/10/2003 -0700, you wrote: > > I originally started out naming machines after colours - Red, Orange, > > Yellow, etc., > >And Octarine? Indeed ... which is how I migrated onto Pratchett :-) From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Sat Oct 18 20:47:50 2003 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:31 2005 Subject: Naming schemes (was upcoming classiccmp wierdness) In-Reply-To: <10310181440.ZM4339@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com>; from pete@dunnington.u-net.com on Sat, Oct 18, 2003 at 06:40:01 %z References: <3F909F81.B0E376E8@bellsouth.net> <10310181440.ZM4339@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <20031019014750.GE1396@oblina.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 2003.10.18 06:40 Pete Turnbull wrote: > Mine are an assortment of groups. My "primary" names are James, MissSophie, SirTobie, MrWinterbottom and AdmVonSchneider. If you don't know these names, well, I can't explain the origin. You have to see the film. ;-) The next group is ickis, oblina, krumm, Zimbo, TheSnorch, Simon, TheGromble, ... from a carton. Then there are some various unsorted names: tester (netboot client of the day), zerberus (router), octopus (8 port RS232 terminal server), Apfeltasche (old Apple laptop), ... At the Unix-AG we have names from "Biene Maja", "The Hitchhiker Guide to the Galaxy" and "Bonanza". -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Sat Oct 18 13:03:22 2003 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:31 2005 Subject: OT, but REALLY funny -- Killer Helium Blimps! Message-ID: <200310181103220980.140E15CE@192.168.42.129> I know this is off-topic, but we all could use a good laugh. NOTE: Remove all furry, feathered, or scaly critters from your lap, shoulders, or wherever, and put down all spillable and snortable substances, BEFORE you read this! http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=160851 Other than that, enjoy! ;-) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com ARS KC7GR (Formerly WD6EOS) since 12-77 -- kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com "Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati" (Red Green, aka Steve Smith) From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Oct 18 16:52:23 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:31 2005 Subject: help: Brikon Floppy drive tester Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031018175223.007e7d80@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Hi, I have a couple of Brikon model 723 floppy drive testers made by Brian Instruments of Fullerton, California. One of the testers that I have has the "R" option. The "R" option is a feature that includes a bunch of flying leads tahat you can attach to various test points on the drive under test and measure various analog parameters. It's shown in the factory brochure and it appears to be a ribbon cable with a small blue box on it and about 8 or 10 individual leads coming out of the box. The leads appear to have banana plugs on them where they plug into the box and the other ends have grabber clips on them. Does anyone have one of these cable/pods? If so can you send me the pin out so that I can make one or can I borrow it long enough to make schematics of it? Joe From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sat Oct 18 19:29:57 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:31 2005 Subject: Naming schemes (was upcoming classiccmp wierdness) In-Reply-To: Jochen Kunz "Re: Naming schemes (was upcoming classiccmp wierdness)" (Oct 18, 18:47) References: <3F909F81.B0E376E8@bellsouth.net> <10310181440.ZM4339@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <20031019014750.GE1396@oblina.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <10310190129.ZM4882@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Oct 18, 18:47, Jochen Kunz wrote: > On 2003.10.18 06:40 Pete Turnbull wrote: > > > Mine are an assortment of groups. > My "primary" names are James, MissSophie, SirTobie, MrWinterbottom and > AdmVonSchneider. If you don't know these names, well, I can't explain > the origin. You have to see the film. ;-) "Dinner For One". I've not see it for years, though. It should be "Toby" though, not "Tobie" :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From classiccmp at crash.com Sat Oct 18 20:54:14 2003 From: classiccmp at crash.com (Steven M Jones) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:31 2005 Subject: Naming schemes Message-ID: <200310190154.h9J1sEe02542@abort.crash.com> Oh what the heck, why not do my bit to congest the network... Can't tell who wrote: > > I'd be interested to find out what network names/nicknames some other > classiccmpers have given their machines. I picked crash.com in the Great Internet Domain Name Land Grab back in early 1994. Hard to believe what wasn't taken back then. As to why, well, what do computers do at the least convenient times? What logically followed (to me) was a series of names based on Unix signals. abort.crash.com Desktop buserr.crash.com Desktop fpe.crash.com Web server hup.crash.com Current firewall int.crash.com temporary, new machines io.crash.com File server segv.crash.com Old firewall term.crash.com Livingston Portmaster They've all been different machines at different times, as these are role-based names as much as anything else. And of course they have CNAMEs/aliases of the proper format: SIGHUP, SIGINT, etc. Other naming schemes in use are predictable. The Sun's are Egyptian gods (Ra Sparc 10/52, Thoth Sparc 20/92 (yes, 90MHz), Horus and Osiris are Ultra 30's, the Sun-4/260, 3/50 & 3/60 haven't been revived yet). The DEC MIPS and Alphas are Indian gods (Kali 5000/260, Hanuman a 3000/300lx, Siva a 600MHz PC164LX rack, new AS1200 and AS4000 haven't been named yet). The VAXen don't conform to this, I can't recall the name given to the uVAX 3400, the VS3100m38 only went far enough to confirm that it worked, and the 4000/500 is OMEGA. If I get the 11/730 running, I'll worry about a name then. The big problem there is what to do for mass storage, as I don't have a Unibus SCSI card and don't want to use a second backplane. OTOH, it might be faster to boot diskless and run over the net than hook up an R80... . The DG Aviions aren't really part of the network, and their names are stopgaps. An AV410 is "lilav", and the AV530's are Edson and Webo. I can't recall what name was given to the AV5500 just now. The cluster project was named arg.crash.com. The individual nodes (Soyo dual Slot 1 mobo's with Celerons on slockets - gives you an idea of timeframe!) were arg0, arg1, arg2, etc. I was tempted to rename the whole cluster argv, but... Laptops have been Slim (DEC HiNote Ultra), Slate (ThinkPad 600X), and now Folly (a ThinkPad T23 1400x1050 that I shouldn't have put the money into). Network attached HP LaserJet 4+ is Hardcopy. From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org Sat Oct 18 21:34:30 2003 From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:31 2005 Subject: The UNIBUS FAQ is wrong about grant cards, isn't it? Message-ID: <3F91F836.4050903@aurora.regenstrief.org> Hi, the UNIBUS FAQ sais that the grant cards G727A is a dual-height card with NPG grant. But from the cards I have I see the G727A is a single height card with only bus grant, not NPG, and it is a knucklebuster. The one that's dual-height and has handles is the G7273. I also have a 3rd party vendor dual height bus+NPG grant card. I suppose it shouldn't be too hard to make grant cards yourself. I think I have my VAX11/780 UNIBUS under control now. I threw out all cards except for the UDA50 pair, put in a new terminator and filled all with appropriate grant cards. Now the UDA50 initializes fine and I get the 8/9 blink fine the port-A light goes on on the RA90. Still the VAX doesn't seem to get anywhere and after a while the lights go off. May be I'm too impatient and should just wait long enough? -Gunther From ian_primus at yahoo.com Sat Oct 18 22:11:00 2003 From: ian_primus at yahoo.com (Ian Primus) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:31 2005 Subject: IBM System/23 ROM help needed Message-ID: This is yet another incomplete project that I am trying to finish... I have an IBM System/23 Datamaster, and I am attempting to get it to work. When turned on, it displays a series of numbers on the screen, and stops at "FD". Of the numbers printed, "0B" is inverted and flashing. I found a listing of the error codes in google's cache of classiccmp.org (part of the archive seems to be down). http://216.239.51.104/search?q=cache:83dbK69EHG8J:www.classiccmp.org/ mail-archive/classiccmp/1997-07/0566.html+IBM+System/ 23+error+site:www.classiccmp.org&hl=en&ie=UTF-8 According to this, the error code "0B" indicates that one of the ROM chips on the logic board has failed. The chip is soldered to the board, but replacing it with a socket and an EPROM shouldn't be a problem, but I don't know anything about these chips, or if they have an EPROM equivalent. I have repaired my EPROM programmer, so I now have the ability to burn my own EPROM chips. The problem I face now is that I need the data for the new chip. Does anyone have a ROM image of this chip that they could send me? Also, does anyone know the pinouts of these ROM chips on the System/23 board? (or as IBM calls them, ROS modules, for Read Only Storage). Thanks! Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com From nico at farumdata.dk Sat Oct 18 23:42:19 2003 From: nico at farumdata.dk (Nico de Jong) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:31 2005 Subject: Brikon Floppy drive tester References: <3.0.6.32.20031018175223.007e7d80@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <001401c395fb$61b6b680$2101a8c0@farumdata.dk> From: "Joe" Subject: help: Brikon Floppy drive tester > The leads appear to have > banana plugs on them where they plug into the box and the other ends have > grabber clips on them. Hi Joe I couldnt resist the temptation. Clips like the ones you mention, have a specific name in Dutch : "schoonmoeder" or in english "Mother in Law" Nico From vance at neurotica.com Sun Oct 19 01:29:41 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:31 2005 Subject: Naming schemes (was upcoming classiccmp wierdness) In-Reply-To: <200310181052.02972.meltie@meltie.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 18 Oct 2003, Alex White wrote: > > > I'd be interested to find out what network names/nicknames some > > > other classiccmpers have given their machines. > > I name my boxxen after vodkas - Stolichnaya, Ursus, Charodei, Rain, > Chopin... Ones that don't get much use generally get put down as "3100" > or similar though. Network devices get their own explanatory names - > gateway, ds300, router etc Got one called Wyborowa? Ahh. My favorite. Peace... Sridhar From ericj at speakeasy.org Sun Oct 19 01:58:17 2003 From: ericj at speakeasy.org (Eric Josephson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:31 2005 Subject: Mac SE/30 revival In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 2 Oct 2003 liste@artware.qc.ca wrote: > don't have the extra special long torx driver to get at the 2 top screws. > And the hex extention bits I have don't fit into the hole. If there's a Sears in your area, they (Craftsman) have a T15 driver with a 6" shank that's perfect for the job. Part number 47431. Regards, -- Eric Josephson From eric at brouhaha.com Sun Oct 19 02:17:39 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:31 2005 Subject: Naming schemes (was upcoming classiccmp wierdness) In-Reply-To: References: <20031018032940.AB10F3EA51@www.fastmail.fm> Message-ID: <33975.64.169.63.74.1066547859.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Sellam wrote: > My naming scheme is easy: > > Main desktop PC: "Piece of shit running Windows XP" > Laptop: "Piece of shit running Windows 2000" > Backup PC: "Piece of shit running Windows 98" Totally lacking in subtlety. Most of my machines run Linux. The one that runs Windows, needed because there's no Linux drivers for the Ricoh IS520 high-speed scanner, is named "bluescreen". From arcarlini at iee.org Sun Oct 19 03:44:12 2003 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:31 2005 Subject: Naming schemes In-Reply-To: <200310190154.h9J1sEe02542@abort.crash.com> Message-ID: <000c01c3961d$2b9244d0$5b01a8c0@athlon> > The VAXen don't conform to this, I can't recall the name > given to the uVAX 3400, the VS3100m38 only went far enough to > confirm that it worked, and the 4000/500 is OMEGA. If I get > the 11/730 running, I'll worry about a name then. The big The VAX 4000-500 codename was Omega so you could use the VAX-11/730's codename, Nebula to fit in (and the VAX-11/725 was LCN - Low Cost Nebula). > problem there is what to do for mass storage, as I don't have > a Unibus SCSI card and don't want to use a second backplane. > OTOH, it might be faster to boot diskless and run over the > net than hook up an R80... . The DG Aviions aren't really It will boot from the TU58 but I don't know of anything that will then boot it over the net over MOP. Writing something to use bootp and tftp would be an interesting project! Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Sun Oct 19 14:14:20 2003 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:31 2005 Subject: Naming schemes In-Reply-To: <000c01c3961d$2b9244d0$5b01a8c0@athlon>; from arcarlini@iee.org on Sun, Oct 19, 2003 at 01:44:12 %z References: <000c01c3961d$2b9244d0$5b01a8c0@athlon> Message-ID: <20031019191420.GA1357@oblina.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 2003.10.19 01:44 Antonio Carlini wrote: [VAX-11/730] > > OTOH, it might be faster to boot diskless and run over the > > net than hook up an R80... . > It will boot from the TU58 but I don't know of anything that > will then boot it over the net over MOP. Writing something > to use bootp and tftp would be an interesting project! The NetBSD/VAX boot loader? It uses DHCP and NFS to load an ELF image. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz From rhudson at cnonline.net Sun Oct 19 07:47:54 2003 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:31 2005 Subject: Naming schemes (was upcoming classiccmp wierdness) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <755BB8F4-0232-11D8-8339-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> On Sunday, October 19, 2003, at 01:29 AM, vance@neurotica.com wrote: > On Sat, 18 Oct 2003, Alex White wrote: > >>>> I'd be interested to find out what network names/nicknames some >>>> other classiccmpers have given their machines. >> >> I name my boxxen after vodkas - Stolichnaya, Ursus, Charodei, Rain, >> Chopin... Ones that don't get much use generally get put down as >> "3100" >> or similar though. Network devices get their own explanatory names - >> gateway, ds300, router etc > > Got one called Wyborowa? Ahh. My favorite. Wyborowa vodka when you can get you own? :^) > > Peace... Sridhar > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sun Oct 19 07:56:20 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:31 2005 Subject: Brikon Floppy drive tester In-Reply-To: <001401c395fb$61b6b680$2101a8c0@farumdata.dk> References: <3.0.6.32.20031018175223.007e7d80@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031019085620.007d32c0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 06:42 AM 10/19/03 +0200, Nico wrote: >From: "Joe" >Subject: help: Brikon Floppy drive tester > > >> The leads appear to have >> banana plugs on them where they plug into the box and the other ends have >> grabber clips on them. > >Hi Joe >I couldnt resist the temptation. >Clips like the ones you mention, have a specific name in Dutch : "schoonmoeder" or in english "Mother in Law" > Sounds like a good name for them! Joe From vance at neurotica.com Sun Oct 19 08:05:03 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:31 2005 Subject: Naming schemes (was upcoming classiccmp wierdness) In-Reply-To: <755BB8F4-0232-11D8-8339-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 19 Oct 2003, Ron Hudson wrote: > > Got one called Wyborowa? Ahh. My favorite. > > Wyborowa vodka when you can get you own? > > > > :^) LOL Too bad it's not pronounced that way. For those who don't know: Vee-bow-rove-ah Peace... Sridhar From classiccmp at crash.com Sun Oct 19 11:13:50 2003 From: classiccmp at crash.com (Steven M Jones) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:31 2005 Subject: Netbooting VAX-11/730 (was Re: Naming schemes) Message-ID: <200310191613.h9JGDoe15201@abort.crash.com> I wrote: > If I get the 11/730 running, I'll worry about a name then. > [mentioned net-booting] Antonio Carlini wrote: > It will boot from the TU58 but I don't know of anything that > will then boot it over the net over MOP. Jochen Kunz suggested: > The NetBSD/VAX boot loader? > It uses DHCP and NFS to load an ELF image. This might work. This 11/730 was packaged in a low-boy (~42" tall) rack with RL02 on top, an R80 on the bottom. I received the host because it was crashing on bad sectors in the R80, and the person using it was given a free 11/750 & rack of RA81s from another lab. The TU58 might be a bit cramped for a full-on bootloader with all kinds of network support at 256k minus whatever else needs to be on there for the machine to boot to the console. However, if it can then read a more complete loader from the RL02, or even a miniroot... Hmmm... Very Interesting... --Steve. From vcf at siconic.com Sun Oct 19 12:32:01 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:31 2005 Subject: Naming schemes (was upcoming classiccmp wierdness) In-Reply-To: <33975.64.169.63.74.1066547859.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 19 Oct 2003, Eric Smith wrote: > Sellam wrote: > > My naming scheme is easy: > > > > Main desktop PC: "Piece of shit running Windows XP" > > Laptop: "Piece of shit running Windows 2000" > > Backup PC: "Piece of shit running Windows 98" > > Totally lacking in subtlety. Well, it was as much a commentary on this seasonal thread as it is on the OS that I choose to run on my computers. My important machines run Linux, i.e. my webserver and firewall. I couldn't trust Windows to run anything without my constant supervision, and those are two functions that I do not want to have to constantly supervise. Windows is like the retarded child of the OS family. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Oct 19 13:10:58 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:31 2005 Subject: ASR33 Teletype interfacing In-Reply-To: <1066068883.12064.17.camel@linux.local> from "Tom Jennings" at Oct 13, 3 11:14:43 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1933 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20031019/1a6b5392/attachment.ksh From rdd at rddavis.org Sun Oct 19 14:18:27 2003 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:31 2005 Subject: air filters In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20031019191148.GA327@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Tony Duell, from writings of Thu, Oct 16, 2003 at 09:41:11PM +0100: > > I constructed my PDP-8 replica with materials all found at Home Depot (or > > Lowes since it's closer, but the people at HD in my area are pretty > > Your DIY stores keep ICs, etc???? No. Imagine what it would be like trying to find one if they did. After all, this afternoon, the manager of the electrical department at the local Lowes store didn't even know what an Edison base fuse was. Doh! ...and the electrical department sales droid that I spoke with over the telephone, who had to ask him what one was, didn't know either. The sales droid told me that her manager was an electrician, and I told her that he had no business being one if if didn't know what an Edison base fuse was. Next, I explained what an Edison base fuse looked like, then proceeded to tell her that the people working in the local small hardware store, which Lowes helped to drive out of business, knew what an Edison base fuse was. About the aforementioned small hardware store: the owner, a very pleasant older gentleman, was in his 90's, and he just died recently while the store was still having it's going out of business sale... it appeared that he knew more about hardware than all of the employees in all of the Home Depot's and Lowes stores combined... plus, he spoke, and could comprehend, fluent English... something that many of the minorities (more like majorities in many areas though) and immigrants working in those big stores don't appear to be able to do! (yes, I know, that wasn't a politically correct statement, however, it was the truth; screw political correctness, which is helping to destroy western civilization) > My moan is not that the salesdroids are not knowledgable. I don't expect > them to be. All I expect them to be able to do is to find me the item > that I am asking for. If I want some 20mm M3 screws, then they should > know where they are. Most of the time they don't. Yes, that's the problem. They don't even know much about their inventory. Despite the size of those stores, the selection of inventory is still lacking. Try finding hose supplies in the middle of the winter, and be told something like "that's a seasonal item, we won't be getting any more until spring." Ok, so, I guess I was supposed to either tell the horses that needed water that a hose coupling was a seasonal item, or else carry many five gallon buckets of water from the stream to the barns; yes, right. > I don't expect them to tell me how to use the stuff, or to suggest what > product I need (in fact, I find it _very annoying_ if I go to a shop and > ask for a particular product and the salesdroid finds me something else > which is 'just as good'. Hint : If I ask for something by name, then I "But look, this is made in China, Japan, Outer Mongolia, Mexico or Ungabungaland, and its cheaper, uh, somewhat inferior, but cheaper, and our profit margin is higher if you buy it." > have a good reaso nfor wanting just that item, I'd use a generic term if > I didn't care). They're not in business to sell us what we want or need. We're supposed to exist only to increase profits for shareholders and to help increase government revenues. -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From eric at brouhaha.com Sun Oct 19 14:11:21 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:31 2005 Subject: ASR33 Teletype interfacing In-Reply-To: References: <1066068883.12064.17.camel@linux.local> from "Tom Jennings" atOct 13, 3 11:14:43 am Message-ID: <34246.64.169.63.74.1066590681.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Tony wrote: > To avod further confusion, ASR33s are ASCII machines (the Model 32 is the > baudot equivalent). You don't need any code conversion for the ASR33. You need at least a little bit of code conversion if you're using a model 33 with the standard type element with equipment that uses modern character sets, as the model 33 uses the 1963 ASCII standard (ANSI X3.4-1963) rather than the later versions of X3.4 or the current ANSI INCITS 4-1986. For instance, the modern caret (ASCII 0x5e, Unicode 0x005e) and underscore (ASCII 0x5f, Unicode 0x005f) characters are not available on the model 33. And the model 33's up arrow and back arrow characters, 0x5e and 0x5f, should be translated to Unicode 0x2191 and 0x2190, respectively. I don't recall whether the model 33 escape key sends the X3.4-1963 escape code, 0x7e, or the modern escape code, 0x1b. In modern ASCII and most ASCII-derived character sets, 0x7e is the tilde character. From jcwren at jcwren.com Sun Oct 19 14:36:10 2003 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:31 2005 Subject: air filters In-Reply-To: <20031019191148.GA327@rhiannon.rddavis.org> References: <20031019191148.GA327@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <200310191536.10912.jcwren@jcwren.com> My friends judgement of a good hardware store started with if there were any horse collars hanging on the wall or not. No horse collar, bad store. So one day, we're standing around in the hardware store (Dux, down near Georgia Tech, about 15 years ago. Prerequisite horse collar on wall), and this guy about 70 walks in, holds up a part and says "You got one of these?" The hardware guy goes "That's a butterfly valve from a 1936 Ford tractor, and I got two of'em. $10 each, or $17 for the pair." We stood agog. --John On Sunday 19 October 2003 15:11 pm, R. D. Davis wrote: > Quothe Tony Duell, from writings of Thu, Oct 16, 2003 at 09:41:11PM +0100: > > > I constructed my PDP-8 replica with materials all found at Home Depot > > > (or Lowes since it's closer, but the people at HD in my area are pretty > > > > Your DIY stores keep ICs, etc???? > > No. Imagine what it would be like trying to find one if they did. > After all, this afternoon, the manager of the electrical department at > the local Lowes store didn't even know what an Edison base fuse was. > Doh! ...and the electrical department sales droid that I spoke with > over the telephone, who had to ask him what one was, didn't know > either. The sales droid told me that her manager was an electrician, > and I told her that he had no business being one if if didn't know > what an Edison base fuse was. Next, I explained what an Edison base > fuse looked like, then proceeded to tell her that the people working > in the local small hardware store, which Lowes helped to drive out of > business, knew what an Edison base fuse was. > > About the aforementioned small hardware store: the owner, a very > pleasant older gentleman, was in his 90's, and he just died recently > while the store was still having it's going out of business sale... it > appeared that he knew more about hardware than all of the employees in > all of the Home Depot's and Lowes stores combined... plus, he spoke, > and could comprehend, fluent English... something that many of the > minorities (more like majorities in many areas though) and immigrants > working in those big stores don't appear to be able to do! (yes, I > know, that wasn't a politically correct statement, however, it was the > truth; screw political correctness, which is helping to destroy > western civilization) > > > My moan is not that the salesdroids are not knowledgable. I don't expect > > them to be. All I expect them to be able to do is to find me the item > > that I am asking for. If I want some 20mm M3 screws, then they should > > know where they are. Most of the time they don't. > > Yes, that's the problem. They don't even know much about their > inventory. Despite the size of those stores, the selection of > inventory is still lacking. Try finding hose supplies in the middle > of the winter, and be told something like "that's a seasonal item, we > won't be getting any more until spring." Ok, so, I guess I was > supposed to either tell the horses that needed water that a hose > coupling was a seasonal item, or else carry many five gallon buckets > of water from the stream to the barns; yes, right. > > > I don't expect them to tell me how to use the stuff, or to suggest what > > product I need (in fact, I find it _very annoying_ if I go to a shop and > > ask for a particular product and the salesdroid finds me something else > > which is 'just as good'. Hint : If I ask for something by name, then I > > "But look, this is made in China, Japan, Outer Mongolia, Mexico or > Ungabungaland, and its cheaper, uh, somewhat inferior, but cheaper, > and our profit margin is higher if you buy it." > > > have a good reaso nfor wanting just that item, I'd use a generic term if > > I didn't care). > > They're not in business to sell us what we want or need. We're supposed > to exist only to increase profits for shareholders and to help increase > government revenues. From teoz at neo.rr.com Sun Oct 19 14:47:14 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:31 2005 Subject: air filters References: <20031019191148.GA327@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <006b01c39679$cb911cc0$3d7ca418@neo.rr.com> Interesting thread. I just love it when people complain about the big chain stores not having what they want or having it but salespeople are clueless while the small mom & pop places know their stuff and have what you need. The fact is people are extremely cheap. The big chain stores buy what 90% of the public wants in huge quantities stacked up in large stores being sold by minimum wage workers. How many times have you seen somebody picking the brains of a knowledgeable store owner and then leave only to buy the item he needed from the internet, chain store, or some other place thats cheaper. The buying public is what has killed small specialty stores, quality manufactured items, and employees that know what they are doing. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Oct 19 15:00:40 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:31 2005 Subject: Data I/O Series 22 EPROM Programmer help In-Reply-To: from "Ian Primus" at Oct 13, 3 09:04:33 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2615 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20031019/d31e67cc/attachment.ksh From vance at neurotica.com Sun Oct 19 15:22:55 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:31 2005 Subject: air filters In-Reply-To: <20031019191148.GA327@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: On 19 Oct 2003, R. D. Davis wrote: > minorities (more like majorities in many areas though) and immigrants > working in those big stores don't appear to be able to do! (yes, I know, > that wasn't a politically correct statement, however, it was the truth; > screw political correctness, which is helping to destroy western > civilization) Except for the fact that most of the immigrants I know speak English much better than the *vast* majority of n-th generation Americans I know. Most Americans I run across can't understand English for shit. Peace... Sridhar From ian_primus at yahoo.com Sun Oct 19 15:49:56 2003 From: ian_primus at yahoo.com (Ian Primus) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:31 2005 Subject: ASR33 Teletype interfacing In-Reply-To: <34246.64.169.63.74.1066590681.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: On Sunday, October 19, 2003, at 03:11 PM, Eric Smith wrote: > Tony wrote: >> To avod further confusion, ASR33s are ASCII machines (the Model 32 is >> the >> baudot equivalent). You don't need any code conversion for the ASR33. > > You need at least a little bit of code conversion if you're using a > model > 33 with the standard type element with equipment that uses modern > character > sets, as the model 33 uses the 1963 ASCII standard (ANSI X3.4-1963) > rather > than the later versions of X3.4 or the current ANSI INCITS 4-1986. > For instance, the modern caret (ASCII 0x5e, Unicode 0x005e) and > underscore > (ASCII 0x5f, Unicode 0x005f) characters are not available on the model > 33. > And the model 33's up arrow and back arrow characters, 0x5e and 0x5f, > should > be translated to Unicode 0x2191 and 0x2190, respectively. I don't > recall > whether the model 33 escape key sends the X3.4-1963 escape code, 0x7e, > or the modern escape code, 0x1b. In modern ASCII and most > ASCII-derived > character sets, 0x7e is the tilde character. I'm not really sure what kind of type element my model 33 has. One thing I did notice, however, is that the zero and the letter O are both 'switched'. Normally, on a modern system, the zero will have a line through it, and the letter O will not. On this teletype, it is the other way around. The keyboard and the type element both are like this, and it is the only teletype I have seen that has them reversed. The other model 33's I have seen pictures of on the 'net have normal zero and O keys. Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com From teoz at neo.rr.com Sun Oct 19 15:59:13 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:31 2005 Subject: air filters References: Message-ID: <009e01c39683$da39a940$3d7ca418@neo.rr.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "R. D. Davis" Cc: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2003 4:22 PM Subject: Re: air filters > On 19 Oct 2003, R. D. Davis wrote: > > > minorities (more like majorities in many areas though) and immigrants > > working in those big stores don't appear to be able to do! (yes, I know, > > that wasn't a politically correct statement, however, it was the truth; > > screw political correctness, which is helping to destroy western > > civilization) > > Except for the fact that most of the immigrants I know speak English much > better than the *vast* majority of n-th generation Americans I know. Most > Americans I run across can't understand English for shit. > > Peace... Sridhar > It used to be immigrants coming to the USA had problems with English because it wasn't taught in their schools (if they even went to school). Today foreign schools teach English better then most English schools while foreign students probably try harder to learn then the vast majority of American youth. When I was in college during the late 80's and early 90's the foreign students were the ones trying very hard to study and learn everything while most Americans were off at the frat house getting drunk. Its easy to get fat and lazy when you live in the land of plenty and consider yourself to be destined to have a good job and life because your an American. People from countries outside the USA have to try very hard to get the same opportunities we take for granted here and are not eager to blow it if they are one of the lucky few to make it here. Ever wonder why most post graduate courses in college are flooded with people of other countries? The problem I have with political correctness is that students today are not graded like they used to be, who actually flunks out of English in elementary schools even if they cant read? Its not politically correct to tell a parent their kid is stupid because it will make them feel bad. Are we better off with "no child is left behind" in our school system when it just lowers the requirements so everybody can get an A and pass (are schools even using a grading system anymore or just pass/fail with everyone passing?). . From ian_primus at yahoo.com Sun Oct 19 17:10:35 2003 From: ian_primus at yahoo.com (Ian Primus) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:31 2005 Subject: Data I/O Series 22 EPROM Programmer help In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1020C440-0281-11D8-982F-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> On Sunday, October 19, 2003, at 04:00 PM, Tony Duell wrote: >> The more I tinker with this, the more I am suspecting a hardware >> problem. While trying to revive the power supply, I was measuring >> voltages that were pretty far off, all of them too low. Now, the power >> supply seems to have stabilized, and the voltages are consistently >> close to correct. They are a fuzz low, but it's within the > > Have you checked the supply lines for ripple (using as 'scope)? If not, > do so -- some regulators get confused if there's significant ripple, > and > set the average voltage too low. Of course ripple will cause problems > for > the rest of the circuitry too. > >> specifications that the manual gives. (i.e. 15 volts is about 14.8 >> volts, but it's close enough). I measured voltages at the 1488 and >> 1489 >> chips, and they are just about what the data sheet says is nominal >> (Nominal is 9V, and -9v, I'm reading about 8.9v and -8.89v). But, from > > The 1488 will work fine at that voltage. > >> the looks of the solder and some residual flux on the top of the >> board, >> it almost looks like the 1488 has been replaced before. If this chip >> is > > Quite possible. Line drivers (and other chips connected to external > connectors) live a hard life, and are often damaged by misconnections > to > said connectors (although the 1488 is generally pretty immune to such > damage) and voltages induced on cables connected to the connectors. > >> bad, I would assume that it would prevent me from seeing any output, >> but the input would still work, since the 1489 is obviously > > Yes. > >> functioning. If I feel adventurous later this afternoon, I think I am >> going to try to desolder the 1488 and replace it with a socket. I know >> I have another 1488 or two kicking around here, so I'll see if that >> does any good. > > Trace the data output pin on the RS232 connector back to the 1488. Then > use a 'scope or logic analyser to see if that section of the 1488 gets > any input data (the input is at normal TTL levels, BTW). If it does, > then > the 1488 is faulty. If not, then you've got a problem further back > (either the serial chip is defective, or more likely it's not being > told > to send anything by the programmer's firmware). > > Have you looked at the handshake lines at the RS232 connector. I would > start by making sure that all the input handshakes (CTS, DSR, CD on a > DTE > device, for example) are connected to a +ve voltage (if you can find an > output handshake line that's +ve, use that, otherwise use a 9V battery > for testing, +ve termianl to the handshake lines, -ve terminal to > signal > ground). Some devices won't send anything if one of the handshake lines > is deasserted. > > -tony I did manage to get the EPROM programmer working the other day, I should have posted it... sorry. But, thanks for the help, and I'll keep this email so I have a starting point if it dies again. I ended up replacing a limping capacitor in the power supply, as well as the 1488. Now, I am able to read, write and erase EPROM chips just fine (it has a built in UV lamp). I do still have a major problem, although it isn't hardware related. I really need 2732 EPROM chips for making Atari 2600 cartridges. I only have one at the moment. I was successful in making a 2732 EPROM cart, a 2764 EPROM multicart (two games on one cart with a switch to select them), and a partially working 27256 EPROM cart with three switches to select the games. But, I really would like to be able to make permanent, single game carts for homebrew titles (currently, all I have made are test carts with sockets), and the 2732 EPROM is the easiest thing to deal with when making carts, since I don't have to cut part of the board to make it fit. I have a very large pile of 27cx321 chips, made by a company called ICT, but I have been unable to program them, since my programmer doesn't have the codes for them in the manual, and they don't work at the normal 2732 setting. I can't find the pinout or any information on these chips anywhere, so I don't know what they would be equivilent to. Also, I don't know if there is an updated chart for the Data I/O Series 22, I have version 05 firmware, but the chart in the manual only goes up to version 02. Data I/O has no information on this programmer on their web site, other than a message saying that they no longer support them. Any ideas? Also, somewhat EPROM programmer related, does anyone know what type of PROM chips are used in the IBM System/23 Datamaster? I haven't been able to identify them, the markings seem to be IBM part numbers, instead of PROM part numbers. I need to replace a bad chip in my System/23 (see my other post about the System/23). Also, while I'm at it, I would like to back up the code in the other PROM chips as well (or at least the ones that are in sockets), if one chip is suffering from bit rot already, I am concerned about the others as well. If anyone else on the list has a working Datamaster with socketed ROM chips, I would suggest dumping all the ROMs if possible, I know of at least one other System/23 out there with a bad ROM problem, and there are likely to be more in the future. Thanks for your help! Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Oct 19 17:10:51 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:31 2005 Subject: ASR33 Teletype interfacing In-Reply-To: <34246.64.169.63.74.1066590681.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> from "Eric Smith" at Oct 19, 3 12:11:21 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1302 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20031019/96346d4a/attachment.ksh From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sun Oct 19 17:30:48 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:31 2005 Subject: air filters In-Reply-To: <009e01c39683$da39a940$3d7ca418@neo.rr.com> References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031019183048.007e7b60@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 04:59 PM 10/19/03 -0400, TeoZ wrote: > >----- Original Message ----- >From: >To: "R. D. Davis" >Cc: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > >Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2003 4:22 PM >Subject: Re: air filters > > >> On 19 Oct 2003, R. D. Davis wrote: >> >> > minorities (more like majorities in many areas though) and immigrants >> > working in those big stores don't appear to be able to do! (yes, I know, >> > that wasn't a politically correct statement, however, it was the truth; >> > screw political correctness, which is helping to destroy western >> > civilization) >> >> Except for the fact that most of the immigrants I know speak English much >> better than the *vast* majority of n-th generation Americans I know. Most >> Americans I run across can't understand English for shit. >> >> Peace... Sridhar >> > >It used to be immigrants coming to the USA had problems with English because >it wasn't taught in their schools (if they even went to school). Today >foreign schools teach English better then most English schools That might have something to do with the fact that American schools are busy teaching languages OTHER than English! Things like Spanish, Vietnamese, Korean, Eubonics and crap like that. I read that the schools in Kalifornia and now teaching something like 31 different languages! Other than that I agree with everything you said. Don't get me started about the school system! I just got back from vistiting relatives including two of them that work in "special education" in the school system. BOTH of them work full time but only work with ONE student each. Multiple that times a million or so special education sudents in this country. It's no wonder that the schools can't manage to teach the regular students. Joe From ohh at drizzle.com Sun Oct 19 17:57:54 2003 From: ohh at drizzle.com (O. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:31 2005 Subject: Available PDP-11 Cabinet, St. Louis References: Message-ID: <3F9316F2.EAB64B3D@drizzle.com> Like I said a couple of days ago, I'm meeting the nicest people lately. :) Though I still haven't found the PDP-12 I can afford to buy just yet, I have found an empty PDP-11 rack looking for a good home: > This is not exactly what you were looking for but I have a PDP-11 > cabinet i would like to give away, it is the rack only with a pdp-11 > bottom panel, ~6' tall, 2 fans in top, some slides installed, on > casters with leveler feet. Free to a good home. I am in the ST. Louis > area. Anyone interested, particularly in or near St. Louis, can e-mail the owner at "rhugh a-in-a-circle att black-spot net" (with the two appropriate, and I hope obvious, substitutions). -O.- From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun Oct 19 18:21:42 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:31 2005 Subject: Data I/O Series 22 EPROM Programmer help In-Reply-To: Ian Primus "Re: Data I/O Series 22 EPROM Programmer help" (Oct 19, 18:10) References: <1020C440-0281-11D8-982F-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <10310200021.ZM6839@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Oct 19, 18:10, Ian Primus wrote: > > I have a very large pile of 27cx321 > chips, made by a company called ICT, but I have been unable to program > them, since my programmer doesn't have the codes for them in the > manual, and they don't work at the normal 2732 setting. No, they don't, and if you try it, you may destroy them. They're high-speed (usually 35ns, but the suffix -35, -40, or -45 gives the actual number) 4k x 8 UV-erasable EPROMs, and to get the speed they use a different cell construction and a different programming technique. The bits in an erased device are "undefined" and whether you want a '1' or a '0' you have to program the actual value. Pinout is pretty much the same as a 2732 except that pin 20 is /CS1 instead of /OE, and pin 18 is CS2 (active high) instead of /CE. My ICT data book doesn't give the programming algorithm, which is obviously proprietary. It just says contact ICT or use a DATA I/O Model 29B with Unipak 2 or 2B firmware version V15. Oh, and like every other EPROM manufacturer I know, ICT say that exposing it to UV for longer than necessary will affect reliability, shorten the life, or in extreme cases, destroy the device, so don't expose them to a UV eraser (standard 12mW/sq.cm) for more than 20 minutes. Overnight is a bad idea! -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From joel.bradley at comcast.net Sun Oct 19 18:54:29 2003 From: joel.bradley at comcast.net (joel.bradley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:31 2005 Subject: acrhival/displays Message-ID: <3a0401c3969c$55db3600$7fce7618@net.ce1.client2.attbi.com> Hey guys, I am 'new' to the list under this address. I have posted several times about CDC items I have available, and thank you to those who have expressed interest. I do not wish this to come off as a blatant advertisement, but it probabaly will. If any of you out there are looking to 'decorate' your offices or hobby spaces, keep on reading. One of my other hobbies is sports memorabilia and I have something that I developed for my own use in displaying my collection. Being that there has been talk about manuals, old computer magazines, and the like, I thought some of you might be interested in what I am 'selling' to display your ietms. I actually have them listed on eBay, but I can give a better price to those on the list that contact me directly. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2760307223 I have been a collector of magzines for almost 10 years and have been looking since I started for an attractive way to display my collection. In conjunction with a local custom acrylic fabricator, I came up with the following... The holders are made from a combination of 1/8" and 3/16" crystal clear anti-static (anti-dust!) acrylic and can be made to either 'hang' on the wall or 'stand' on a shelf/desktop. They are made from 2 pieces. Imagine one of the pieces is like a shoebox lid. The second piece is the 'back' of the holders slides in and out along a routed edge that is on 3 of the sides of the 'front', You access the box which holds the magazine by sliding the back out. The genius of this design is that it completely seals it inside for protection. They come in various sizes, as well as two 'flavors', hanging or standing. If you go to the listing on eBay, you will see a picture of the 'standing' kinds. I have pictures of my magazine collection using the 'hanging' type available as well. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2760307223 Feel free to contact me directly with questions. Thanks! Joel Bradley joel.bradley@comcast.net From aw288 at osfn.org Sun Oct 19 20:22:58 2003 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:31 2005 Subject: Naming schemes (was upcoming classiccmp wierdness) In-Reply-To: <33787.64.169.63.74.1066489227.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: > > I originally started out naming machines after colours - Red, Orange, > > Yellow, etc., > > And Octarine? Squant. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From ian_primus at yahoo.com Sun Oct 19 21:19:32 2003 From: ian_primus at yahoo.com (Ian Primus) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:31 2005 Subject: Data I/O Series 22 EPROM Programmer help In-Reply-To: <10310200021.ZM6839@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: On Sunday, October 19, 2003, at 07:21 PM, Pete Turnbull wrote: > On Oct 19, 18:10, Ian Primus wrote: >> >> I have a very large pile of 27cx321 >> chips, made by a company called ICT, but I have been unable to > program >> them, since my programmer doesn't have the codes for them in the >> manual, and they don't work at the normal 2732 setting. > > No, they don't, and if you try it, you may destroy them. They're > high-speed (usually 35ns, but the suffix -35, -40, or -45 gives the > actual number) 4k x 8 UV-erasable EPROMs, and to get the speed they use > a different cell construction and a different programming technique. > The bits in an erased device are "undefined" and whether you want a > '1' or a '0' you have to program the actual value. Pinout is pretty > much the same as a 2732 except that pin 20 is /CS1 instead of /OE, and > pin 18 is CS2 (active high) instead of /CE. Well, then I probably have two EPROM shaped paperweights... > > My ICT data book doesn't give the programming algorithm, which is > obviously proprietary. It just says contact ICT or use a DATA I/O > Model 29B with Unipak 2 or 2B firmware version V15. Gah, figures. Does anyone need any ICT 27cx321 EPROM chips? I'll trade for some regular 2732's... > Oh, and like every other EPROM manufacturer I know, ICT say that > exposing it to UV for longer than necessary will affect reliability, > shorten the life, or in extreme cases, destroy the device, so don't > expose them to a UV eraser (standard 12mW/sq.cm) for more than 20 > minutes. Overnight is a bad idea! I have just been erasing chips with the standard setting on the Data I/O's built in EPROM eraser, which is 35 minutes. But, I frequently take them out earlier, since I figure "It's blank enough". I need to get another eraser though, it's kind of a pain only being able to erase two chips at once. > -- > Pete Peter Turnbull > Network Manager > University of York Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com From andyh at andyh-rayleigh.freeserve.co.uk Mon Oct 20 00:58:17 2003 From: andyh at andyh-rayleigh.freeserve.co.uk (Andy Holt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:31 2005 Subject: Honeywell Level 6 in UK In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <003401c396cf$288c8400$4d4d2c0a@atx> Seen on eBay ... I might have been interested, but I haven't got my 11/34 home yet :-( Honeywell Level 6 Mini Computer Item number: 2760447755 Andy From eric at brouhaha.com Mon Oct 20 01:39:59 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:32 2005 Subject: ASR33 Teletype interfacing In-Reply-To: References: <34246.64.169.63.74.1066590681.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> from"Eric Smith" at Oct 19, 3 12:11:21 pm Message-ID: <34603.64.169.63.74.1066631999.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Tony wrote: > The caret and up-arrow characters look sufficiently similar that this > change makes little difference for the sort of applications where you'd > use an ASR33 these days (e.g. for the raise-to-power function in BASIC). The caret and uparrow, maybe. But trying to read Smalltalk code or the HP-41C ROM source code on a system that uses modern ASCII with the underscore instead of the backarrow really sucks. The Unicode mapping I suggested is *much* better for that, IMNSHO. Eric From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Oct 20 02:46:07 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:32 2005 Subject: Honeywell Level 6 in UK In-Reply-To: <003401c396cf$288c8400$4d4d2c0a@atx> References: <003401c396cf$288c8400$4d4d2c0a@atx> Message-ID: >Seen on eBay ... I might have been interested, but I haven't got my 11/34 >home yet :-( > >Honeywell Level 6 Mini Computer Item number: 2760447755 I hope someone rescues it, you don't see the likes of it in private hands very often, especially with software. Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From fmc at reanimators.org Mon Oct 20 08:18:22 2003 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:32 2005 Subject: sticky Sony 3.5" drive Message-ID: <200310201318.h9KDIMjc034474@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Found in an HP 9114A. Doesn't want to accept a diskette; it doesn't move the diskette down when fully inserted, but pushing the eject button ejects the diskette. Removed the drive from the 9114A, and pulled its cover; its heads appear to be intact and in place. I'm wondering what I need to clean and re-lubricate (and how, and what sort of lubricant to use); I'm thinking Tony Duell has told us all before but doggone if I can turn it up in my searches. -Frank McConnell From dundas at caltech.edu Mon Oct 20 10:10:35 2003 From: dundas at caltech.edu (John A. Dundas III) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:32 2005 Subject: Recommendations for archiving audio tapes Message-ID: I have a number of old DECUS U.S. Symposium audio tapes that I would like to archive before they completely disintegrate. I have a way to digitize these and store them in a variety of formats. I'm not sure what format is best for archive and distribution, though I assume something like WAV or AIFF for archive and MP3 for distribution. I have no prior experience at this and would appreciate any suggestions on the best approach. Also suggestions on who to contact to make these archives legally available on the web would be welcome. Is anyone else archiving these? As a teaser, here's what I have: 1987 Fall: N008 Understanding Ethernet N037 Cryptographic Security for Ethernet DA054 Optimizing VMS device Drivers for Realtime I/O V104 Tape 1 VAX Magic, War Stories, and Horror Tales V104 Tape 2 1988 Fall: PC031 Internal Enhancements to AppleTalk for VMS NE050 An Introduction to the Digital's Distributed Name Service (DNS) GR054 Renderman: A 3D Scene Description Interface for Computer Graphics System GR033F Computer Graphic and Visualization Thanks, John From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Oct 20 10:32:28 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:32 2005 Subject: sticky Sony 3.5" drive in HP disk drives In-Reply-To: <200310201318.h9KDIMjc034474@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031020113228.007e2c20@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Frank, You should have found this covered in the archives. I've posted it numerous times before. All the HP double sided floppy drives (9133, 9122, IPC drives, etc) have this problem. The grease used on them dries up and makes the mechanism stick. If you're not carefull the disk will catch on the upper head and tear it off completely or at least damage the R/W head's mount spring and throw it out of alignment. Be VERY careful inserting or removing a disk from one of these drives. To fix the drive, remove it from the chassis, remove it's cover and clean off the old grease using alcohol or another solvent. I have used spray carburator cleaner but I'm leary of it since it blasts stuff all over the place and I think it has enough pressure that it could tear a R/W head off or damage it's mounting spring. I usually just use alcohol and pour it over the sides of the drive and then use lint free towels and Q-tips to clean the grease off. Repeat several times to get all the old grease off. I try to avoid getting the alcohol and/or old grease in the rest of the drive especially the heads. Once you get the old grease off the mechanism should work pretty freely. I then relube it sparingly with a good quality gun grease. Gun grease is usually a high quality grease that won't gum up with age. I also clean the R/W heads while I have it apart. Replace the cover, reinstall the drive and it should work fine. Joe At 06:18 AM 10/20/03 -0700, you wrote: >Found in an HP 9114A. Doesn't want to accept a diskette; it doesn't >move the diskette down when fully inserted, but pushing the eject >button ejects the diskette. Removed the drive from the 9114A, and >pulled its cover; its heads appear to be intact and in place. I'm >wondering what I need to clean and re-lubricate (and how, and what >sort of lubricant to use); I'm thinking Tony Duell has told us all >before but doggone if I can turn it up in my searches. > >-Frank McConnell > From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Mon Oct 20 10:37:05 2003 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:32 2005 Subject: Recommendations for archiving audio tapes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: In message "John A. Dundas III" wrote: > what format is best for archive and distribution, though I assume > something like WAV or AIFF for archive and MP3 for distribution. I > have no prior experience at this and would appreciate any suggestions > on the best approach. Get yourself a decent tape recorder - not one of those elcheapo things, a proper full-size tape deck. I've been using a JVC TD-X335 to archive various old tapes. Make sure the heads are nice and clean, though. Don't waste time with those cleaning tapes - I lost a tape deck to one of those things. I'd use the cotton-wool-and-IPA method. Next, you'll need cables. Get the Line output from the tape deck hooked up to the Line input on your machine's sound card. With that done, load one of the tapes and set it playing. When the VU meter starts registering output, fire up some sound editing/capture software (I use Audacity on Linux) on your computer and start recording. Adjust the recording level on the computer until the line/bar/block on the computer's pseudo-VU meter is just touching the red segment of the meter. Stop the recording and rewind the tape. Start the computer recording - IME you should be using a sampling rate of 44100Hz, 16 bit, mono for a speech. I usually set the recorder to stereo and adjust the settings later (Audacity lets you split the left/right tracks, merge them, etc). Save in a lossless format - AIFF or WAV (raw PCM compression). 44100/16/Stereo is basically the format used by CDs - most CD recording software should happily burn these to a CD-R. For distribution, either make copies of the master CD-R (preferably from the CD image) or distribute them as OGGs. 64kbit should be more than enough for speech. Just FYI, an Ogg (more properly, Ogg Vorbis) file is a patent-free lossy compression format that's comparable to MP3. I'd use Ogg, simply for the reason that it's opensource and tends to be slightly better in terms of output file size vs. quality. Later. -- Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, philpem@dsl.pipex.com | ViewFinder, Ethernet (Acorn AEH62), http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ | 8xCD, framegrabber, Teletext My other vehicle is a Galaxy Class Starship From Mark at Misty.com Thu Oct 16 14:58:06 2003 From: Mark at Misty.com (Mark G. Thomas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:32 2005 Subject: IMSAI 8080 Message-ID: <20031016195806.GA18252@lucky.misty.com> Hi Bob, I have been having regrets about selling my Imsai-8080 a few years ago. Did you ever find a home for yours, or is it still up for sale? Mark -- Mark G. Thomas (Mark@Misty.com) voice: 215-591-3695 http://www.misty.com/ http://mail-cleaner.com/ From vax at onthenet.com.au Sun Oct 19 07:05:22 2003 From: vax at onthenet.com.au (Geoff Gunn) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:32 2005 Subject: SYSTEM 80 Schematics Message-ID: <00f801c39639$4b630a30$720690cb@vaxnnd7ssq1x6g> Mike, I just found you message about having the ciruit diagrams for a Disk Smith System 80. I found one of these the other day in a recyling center and always had a soft spot for them as it was first computer. The one I found works, but has a problem in the video circuit. It is repairable, but would be a lot easier if I had schematics to work from (I collect video games from the same era as well so my skills in repairing these would help me a great deal :) If you have a scan or even a photocopy of this manual, I would glady purchase it off you. Cheers, Geoff From PLancashire at columbia.com Sun Oct 19 11:00:18 2003 From: PLancashire at columbia.com (Lancashire, Pete) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:32 2005 Subject: Sad Day need help on replacing ASR35 and IBM 129 Verifier Message-ID: <88A237F0F2A83949BB50CA3CFB577B37011C7864@US-TRILLIUM.columbia.csc> I lost (in addition to lots of old computer items) two things I'm trying to get information for my insurance company on. The first is a ASR35 that was 'loaded', over the years I had converted a TWX ASR35 in to on that had every option you could think of. I just did a search of Google, and could find almost no references to it, sad in its own right. I also lost a ASR 38, but that's for another time. The other item destroyed, was a IBM 129 Punch card verifier. A 129 is a 29, with the ability to verify previously punched cards. It also could be used as a card reader. Mine had that option. Both were very clean, low usage. They both were 'backup' machines that in the case of the 129, had less then 100 hours on its run time meter. Both had full sets of manuals, spare parts etc. The 35 included a never used type unit in the box. So if anyone could help with where I can start to look for replacements, value etc. I would be most thankful. Thanks in advance for any leads -pete From PLancashire at columbia.com Sun Oct 19 11:02:04 2003 From: PLancashire at columbia.com (Lancashire, Pete) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:32 2005 Subject: still a green keys list ? Message-ID: <88A237F0F2A83949BB50CA3CFB577B37CE117D@US-TRILLIUM.columbia.csc> Gil, is the list still active ? if so would like to become a member. thanks -pete pete5520@pdxeng.com From allain at panix.com Mon Oct 20 10:53:34 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:32 2005 Subject: Recommendations for archiving audio tapes References: Message-ID: <03a301c39722$519976c0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> 44khz 16bit is the closest to CD quality I know of. I'll always use that for anything of importance. I have a Sony pro machine here, it really improved on the process. Level selection and noise reduction is much easier. I will master your tapes to CD for you free if you want. John A. From jbmcb at hotmail.com Mon Oct 20 11:25:22 2003 From: jbmcb at hotmail.com (Jason McBrien) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:32 2005 Subject: Recommendations for archiving audio tapes References: Message-ID: You could store them in FLAC or WavPack, both open source and free lossless audio codecs for archival purposes. If you do a good job on cleaning up the noise/hiss from the tapes, they can get you 2:1 compression. Not a whole lot, but half as big is better than nothing. MP3 has become the defacto standard for transmission, although RealAudio and ogg/vorbis tend to do better at very low (Re: smaller) bitrates. ----- Original Message ----- From: "John A. Dundas III" To: Sent: Monday, October 20, 2003 11:10 AM Subject: Recommendations for archiving audio tapes > I have a number of old DECUS U.S. Symposium audio tapes that I would > like to archive before they completely disintegrate. I have a way to > digitize these and store them in a variety of formats. I'm not sure > what format is best for archive and distribution, though I assume > something like WAV or AIFF for archive and MP3 for distribution. I > have no prior experience at this and would appreciate any suggestions > on the best approach. > > Also suggestions on who to contact to make these archives legally > available on the web would be welcome. > > Is anyone else archiving these? > > As a teaser, here's what I have: > > 1987 Fall: > N008 Understanding Ethernet > N037 Cryptographic Security for Ethernet > DA054 Optimizing VMS device Drivers for Realtime I/O > V104 Tape 1 VAX Magic, War Stories, and Horror Tales > V104 Tape 2 > > 1988 Fall: > PC031 Internal Enhancements to AppleTalk for VMS > NE050 An Introduction to the Digital's Distributed Name Service (DNS) > GR054 Renderman: A 3D Scene Description Interface for Computer > Graphics System > GR033F Computer Graphic and Visualization > > Thanks, > > John > > From jpl15 at panix.com Mon Oct 20 12:27:18 2003 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:32 2005 Subject: Recommendations for archiving audio tapes In-Reply-To: <03a301c39722$519976c0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> References: <03a301c39722$519976c0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: On Mon, 20 Oct 2003, John Allain wrote: > 44khz 16bit is the closest to CD quality I know of. 44.1KHtz at 16 bits it is - there is no 'closest'. Some machines have a 48K setting; this is for 'professional' DATs and things that need to sync to SMPTE/Video/etc without all the gearbox whickey - as I'm sure you're (painfully...?) aware of. ;} Ghod knows I've got enough of them bites on *my* ass ... And I also offered to master the tapes - I do a large amount of audio restoration (Edison cylinders on up), so it looks like the Symposium tapes will certainly be re-incarnated quite soon. Thanks John! Cheers John From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Mon Oct 20 12:44:09 2003 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:32 2005 Subject: Teledisk software to duplicate license floppy disk In-Reply-To: <3F9384FA.B9ADBC16@samling.com.my> References: <3F9384FA.B9ADBC16@samling.com.my> Message-ID: <200310201044090351.017A3866@192.168.42.129> I don't, Zhu, I'm sorry. However, please don't rule out the possibility of the OS or floppy drive being at fault. Teledisk should, ideally, be run under a strict DOS 6.22 environment, as that is what it was written to support. I've found, through direct experience, that it will run in a command window under Windows NT 4.0, but you may have different results. The other possibility is that the disk you're trying to archive has a format scheme that is so alien to PC-type floppy controllers that it simply cannot be read. Perhaps someone more experienced with floppy archiving than I am can comment on this. *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 20-Oct-03 at 14:47 Zhu Jin Yong wrote: >hi, > Just searched yahoo and found your email about teledisk tools.I also >encounted the same problems with errors such as "Drive A: is not ready. >Please correct and press any key to continue" especially when floppy >disk is running at final way. I just took out of this disk but this disk >can be nomally used even it got errors in process of td0 file creation. > > But recently,I got a problem using teledisk.Teledisk can't >colon(duplicate) Some authorization disk such as Siemens Simatic Step 7 >V5.1 SP4 authorization disk into *.td0 file with "Drive A: is not >ready" erors at starting up.Do you know any other software could copy >this authorization disk so that I don't warry about my authorization >disk crash? > Thanks, >Zhu -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com ARS KC7GR (Formerly WD6EOS) since 12-77 -- kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com "Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati" (Red Green, aka Steve Smith) From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Oct 20 13:12:54 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:32 2005 Subject: Recommendations for archiving audio tapes In-Reply-To: "John A. Dundas III" "Recommendations for archiving audio tapes" (Oct 20, 8:10) References: Message-ID: <10310201912.ZM8050@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Oct 20, 8:10, John A. Dundas III wrote: > I have a number of old DECUS U.S. Symposium audio tapes that I would > like to archive before they completely disintegrate. I have a way to > digitize these and store them in a variety of formats. I'm not sure > what format is best for archive and distribution, though I assume > something like WAV or AIFF for archive and MP3 for distribution. That sounds reasonable, but beware of WAV -- although originally it was effectively a byte-swapped AIFF format, it's been added to in so many ways that a WAV file could contain just about anything. If you use AIFF at 44100Hz you can write the tracks to a CD-R using just about any writer software. MP3 is pretty good for distribution. It's reasonably compact, better supported than just about any other compressed format, and not likely to go away any time soon. Of course, it's lossy so don't use it for archives (I'm sure you weren't planning to). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From dundas at caltech.edu Mon Oct 20 14:29:02 2003 From: dundas at caltech.edu (John A. Dundas III) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:32 2005 Subject: Recommendations for archiving audio tapes In-Reply-To: <10310201912.ZM8050@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <10310201912.ZM8050@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: Thanks to all that responded. Looks like I found something worth saving; maybe others have some of these audio tapes (decaying) in their garages as well. I will attempt to carefully preserve the original contents (lossless, well, analog to digital anyway) as well as create a lossy copy for Internet distribution. A couple more questions... Is anyone else archiving these? Is there a site already dedicated to this? I'll post a note when electronic copies are available. Thanks, John From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Mon Oct 20 14:41:28 2003 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:32 2005 Subject: Tektronix 4209 graphic terminal commands summary Message-ID: I have just received a Tektronix 4209 terminal which works. Manufacture date is 1987. I vaguely remember plot commands for a tektronix system when I worked for AT&T Western Electric in 1980's. These were not the 4014 storage tube stroke vector displays but the first raster displays. Does anybody have a Plot-10 command summary? Is this the correct set? mike m m c f a d d e n a t c m h . e d u From emu at ecubics.com Mon Oct 20 15:29:09 2003 From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:32 2005 Subject: Tektronix 4209 graphic terminal commands summary In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3F944595.6070702@ecubics.com> McFadden, Mike wrote: > I have just received a Tektronix 4209 terminal which works. >Manufacture date is 1987. Some people are just toooo lucky ;-) > I vaguely remember plot commands for a tektronix system >when I worked for AT&T Western Electric in 1980's. These >were not the 4014 storage tube stroke vector >displays but the first raster displays. > > Does anybody have a Plot-10 command summary? I thought, that plot-10 was a library to use tek codes ? cheers From toresbe at ifi.uio.no Mon Oct 20 16:45:19 2003 From: toresbe at ifi.uio.no (Tore S Bekkedal) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:32 2005 Subject: Nice Apple /// Message-ID: <1066685707.10460.2.camel@lisp> And I quote horrified: "I now feel the desire to make the room more useful so the computer does not fit the decor any longer." Don't you know that Apples, like black, go with everything?!? :) Sheesh. -Tore From jplist at kiwigeek.com Mon Oct 20 17:19:59 2003 From: jplist at kiwigeek.com (JP Hindin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:32 2005 Subject: How do _you_ move equipment? What "tools" do you use? Message-ID: Greetings; I am faced with picking up a sizeable IBM some hours from where I live in the next few weeks. What I had originally planned to do has fallen through, and now I am left trying to work out how best to lift what has been estimated as 800+lbs of 1978 IBM. I have a decent half-ton pickup truck, its more than plenty for carrying this machine home. The magic trick is - how do I get the heavy sucker into the deck? I was planning on "borrowing" another truck with a lift-gate on it, to lift the IBM up to the pickup deck height, and then waffling it into the pickup. That has fallen through, and actually renting one is, as far as I'm concerned, cost prohibitive ($78 + 29c/mile + $150 deposit). If you were to move this IBM, how would you have done it? Keep in mind while I can cover $100 worth of gas for my pickup - more than that is a pinch. JP From geneb at deltasoft.com Mon Oct 20 17:36:26 2003 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:32 2005 Subject: Emulation moment of insanity... (fwd) Message-ID: This is just.....insane. :) g. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 14:58:18 -0700 From: Jeff Vavasour To: trs80@cs.ubc.ca Subject: Emulation moment of insanity... Well, for those on this list that are interested, I recently had a moment of insanity in the emulation realm. Here's the result: http://www.vavasour.ca/jeff/mice.html - Jeff From aw288 at osfn.org Mon Oct 20 17:40:18 2003 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:32 2005 Subject: How do _you_ move equipment? What "tools" do you use? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > If you were to move this IBM, how would you have done it? > Keep in mind while I can cover $100 worth of gas for my pickup - more than > that is a pinch. Get a tilting flatbed trailer, or one that can be forced to the ground without damage and with the thing unhitched, and get a cumalong or winch. 800 pounds is easy this way. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Oct 20 17:38:45 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:32 2005 Subject: website update Message-ID: <10310202338.ZM8442@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> I know some of you have bookmarked or made links to one or two files I have on my "website". Earlier today I moved some of the PDP11-related files, such as the Q-Bus diagrams and XXDP docs, into a subdirectory, so you might want to update bookmarks/links. http://www.dunnington.u-net.com/public/PDP-11/ -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From vcf at siconic.com Mon Oct 20 18:08:42 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:32 2005 Subject: Recommendations for archiving audio tapes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 20 Oct 2003, John A. Dundas III wrote: > Thanks to all that responded. Looks like I found something worth > saving; maybe others have some of these audio tapes (decaying) in > their garages as well. I will attempt to carefully preserve the > original contents (lossless, well, analog to digital anyway) as well > as create a lossy copy for Internet distribution. A couple more > questions... These are the kind of tapes that I love to collect and compile. If they haven't already been archived by the ACM then folks like us certainly need to do so. I have a lot of old audio and video tapes (and other media) waiting to be archived as soon as I get to that particular point in my overall project. I have a couple hundred videos (in VHS and 3/4" format), hundreds of slides, and a few dozen audio tapes (so far). I also have a fair number of photographs, but I'm definitely lacking in that department (the Computer History Museum has thousands). Notwithstanding copyright issues, I plan to make copies available for research, just as I do with the other stuff in my archive. Don't expect anything anytime soon, however. There's still a lot of work to do. But it is being done. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Mon Oct 20 18:12:57 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:32 2005 Subject: How do _you_ move equipment? What "tools" do you use? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 20 Oct 2003, JP Hindin wrote: > If you were to move this IBM, how would you have done it? Given the limitations you've mentioned, I wouldn't. But, there are alternatives. Perhaps a cherry picker (automobile engine hoist) might work? What's the heaviest load a cherry picker can hoist? Is there a forklift anywhere near where you are picking up the machine? They can at least load it that way, but off-loading it will be an issue. Well, you could build a very sturdy ramp to off-load it, but I wouldn't want to be behind it or anywhere within 50 feet of its path when you push it over the edge. Perhaps you can rent a car towing trailer? Those are very low to the ground generally and you may be able to push it onto the tracks. Renting one may well be much cheaper than a truck with a lift gate. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From kd7bcy at teleport.com Mon Oct 20 18:24:21 2003 From: kd7bcy at teleport.com (John Rollins) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:32 2005 Subject: How do _you_ move equipment? What "tools" do you use? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: LOL... I had an interesting way back when I got my Series/1. Loading into a minivan mind you... When it got to the loading dock there were plenty of old cardboard boxes around(big ones!), so we piled them all up next to the rack and tilted it over... Wham! Once "safely" on its side, moved it into position and shoved into the back. Lots of fun! Probably not the greatest idea, but that thing was rock solid. -JR From foxvideo at wincom.net Mon Oct 20 18:28:07 2003 From: foxvideo at wincom.net (Charles E. Fox) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:32 2005 Subject: Recommendations for archiving audio tapes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20031020192548.00b1b508@smtp.wincom.net> At 07:08 PM 20/10/2003, you wrote: >These are the kind of tapes that I love to collect and compile. If they >haven't already been archived by the ACM then folks like us certainly need >to do so. > >I have a lot of old audio and video tapes (and other media) waiting to be >archived as soon as I get to that particular point in my overall project. >I have a couple hundred videos (in VHS and 3/4" format), hundreds of >slides, and a few dozen audio tapes (so far). I also have a fair number >of photographs, but I'm definitely lacking in that department (the >Computer History Museum has thousands). > >Notwithstanding copyright issues, I plan to make copies available for >research, just as I do with the other stuff in my archive. > >Don't expect anything anytime soon, however. There's still a lot of work >to do. But it is being done. > >-- > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Hi, Sellam: You had better watch those 3/4" tapes, they seem to want to self destruct after about twelve or fifteen years. Regards Charlie Fox Charles E. Fox Video Production 793 Argyle Rd. Windsor Ontario Canada N8Y 3J8 519-254-4991 foxvideo@wincom.net Check out the "Camcorder Kindergarten" at http://chasfoxvideo.com From jplist at kiwigeek.com Mon Oct 20 18:30:01 2003 From: jplist at kiwigeek.com (JP Hindin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:32 2005 Subject: How do _you_ move equipment? What "tools" do you use? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 20 Oct 2003, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Mon, 20 Oct 2003, JP Hindin wrote: > > If you were to move this IBM, how would you have done it? > Is there a forklift anywhere near where you are picking up the machine? > They can at least load it that way, but off-loading it will be an issue. I've already looked into it, and unfortunately not. There is, however, a forklift HERE - so unloading it isn't an issue. It's just working out how to get the sucker loaded all the way down in Arkansas :P > Perhaps you can rent a car towing trailer? Those are very low to the > ground generally and you may be able to push it onto the tracks. Renting > one may well be much cheaper than a truck with a lift gate. Tempted. For reasons I won't go into, I've been told that I cannot use a trailor by the person who actually owns the vehicle - I only drive it. Transmissions and various reasons like that. Asides from whether or not I agree or believe this - I'm just trying to make do with what I have. I believe I'll probably put together a pair of sturdy oak ramps, maybe 12" wide, that hook to the bumper of the truck. Then I'll use a winch to pull the IBM up the incline - although I'm not sure yet what to use under the lower end to stop it grating on the ground once its picked up off its casters... Perhaps a skateboard? :) JP From allain at panix.com Mon Oct 20 18:34:47 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:32 2005 Subject: Tektronix 4209 graphic terminal commands summary References: Message-ID: <040301c39762$c039aba0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Plot-10 was a callable library, correct. Other commands could also be used to talk to this terminal directly, in a different language, simpler. Plot-10 was meant to work with whole ranges of Tek devices. I have good docs on a 4107 (probably very similar) and can fish up info for you from there. At this escape sequence level it was very much like a DEC VT125, (only faster, sharper and more functional) if you've ever been there. John A. From fernande at internet1.net Mon Oct 20 18:42:47 2003 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:32 2005 Subject: How do _you_ move equipment? What "tools" do you use? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3F9472F7.9090009@internet1.net> Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > Perhaps a cherry picker (automobile engine hoist) might work? What's the > heaviest load a cherry picker can hoist? 800lbs would be pushing it, I do believe. Plus, if this IBM is tall it won't be able to lift it high enough. > Perhaps you can rent a car towing trailer? Those are very low to the > ground generally and you may be able to push it onto the tracks. Renting > one may well be much cheaper than a truck with a lift gate. Do you mean a tow dolly? Those don't have decks on them, just a spot for each of 2 wheels. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From allain at panix.com Mon Oct 20 18:43:52 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:32 2005 Subject: Recommendations for archiving audio tapes References: <03a301c39722$519976c0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <043a01c39764$04f38da0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > Some machines have a 48K setting; this is for 'professional' DATs This is an old question of mine. Are there (m)any utilities to copy DAT audio to disk using DDS data drives? John A. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Mon Oct 20 18:10:05 2003 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:32 2005 Subject: Socal finds In-Reply-To: <000801c39426$bbef8310$d766a8c0@wrickben02> References: <3F8DD0F1.10683.15BC8E7@localhost> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20031020154951.02ee3120@pop-server.socal.rr.com> This has been a nice week, with hopes that one day this week will be even better. One of the scrappers let me do some digging that was previously off limits. Two gaylord (pallet boxes) boxes of memory, one gold fingers, one solder, only downside was that had to kind of climb into the pallet rack to get access, and time and light were in short supply. The good news is that I found about 2 dozen "nice" sticks, and the better news is that he seemed agreeable to letting me come back and more seriously dig. Most of what I got were 30 pin 4 mb, but I did find at least 1 16 mb IIfx stick, which makes me real hot to dig some more. Cal Poly Pomona hamfest was relocated to the old parking lot to avoid the HUGE crowds buying pumkins in the student patch. Items I saw, but didn't buy etc. included, Hero Jr. (fully restored claimed the owner who was asking for offers and expects a grand or more), a couple of TI printers for the early calculators, and a Rockwell early desktop calculator thing. My theory is that a wave of old stuff that people have sat on for years is showing up as people assume the days for higher prices are passing. Oh, and one of my friends bought a fairly complete less monitor Next slab. From eric at brouhaha.com Mon Oct 20 18:58:22 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:32 2005 Subject: How do _you_ move equipment? What "tools" do you use? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1247.4.20.168.165.1066694302.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> >> Is there a forklift anywhere near where you are picking up the machine? >> They can at least load it that way, but off-loading it will be an issue. > I've already looked into it, and unfortunately not. The last time I rented a forklift, it was only about $75 for 24 hours, including delivery to my site and pickup. Would have been less if I'd picked it up, though I would have had to rent its trailer. From eric at brouhaha.com Mon Oct 20 18:58:22 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:32 2005 Subject: How do _you_ move equipment? What "tools" do you use? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1247.4.20.168.165.1066694302.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> >> Is there a forklift anywhere near where you are picking up the machine? >> They can at least load it that way, but off-loading it will be an issue. > I've already looked into it, and unfortunately not. The last time I rented a forklift, it was only about $75 for 24 hours, including delivery to my site and pickup. Would have been less if I'd picked it up, though I would have had to rent its trailer. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Oct 20 19:10:59 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:32 2005 Subject: How do _you_ move equipment? What "tools" do you use? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031020201059.007c9c20@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 05:19 PM 10/20/03 -0500, you wrote: > >Greetings; >I am faced with picking up a sizeable IBM some hours from where I live in >the next few weeks. >What I had originally planned to do has fallen through, and now I am left >trying to work out how best to lift what has been estimated as 800+lbs of >1978 IBM. > >I have a decent half-ton pickup truck, its more than plenty for carrying >this machine home. The magic trick is - how do I get the heavy sucker into >the deck? >I was planning on "borrowing" another truck with a lift-gate on it, to >lift the IBM up to the pickup deck height, and then waffling it into the >pickup. That has fallen through, and actually renting one is, as far as >I'm concerned, cost prohibitive ($78 + 29c/mile + $150 deposit). You should be aware that a lot of the lift gates are junk! They're actually worse than that, they're downright dangerous! Many of them have a steep ramp about 2 to 3" high before they reach the top. That makes it very difficult to get heavy objects onto the lift gate. In addition, the tops are sloped away from the truck and when you raise the lift gate the slope increases. That makes things tend to slide completely off the ramp right at the worst time! Just as you're lifting it up and have nowhere to go. Finally, they have a hinge in them that makes it difficult to get heavy loads off and on the ramp. Take a close look at any lift gate that you're considering using, BEFORE you rent the truck. And if you don't have a fork lift or other machinery to load the cargo, think THREE TIMES about using one of them for heavy objects. Last year, I narrowly missing being crushed under a 1800+ lb UPS that I was trying to load on one using those POS! Something you might consider is the use of one of the off-road type fork lifts. A LOT of companies in this area (central Florida) use them to unloading and moving pallets of sod (squares of grass used for landscaping) and they can be rented quite reasonably and the rental companies have trailors for them. I have moved a couple of big heavy computers by renting a low trailer and then using 2 x 10" boards as ramps to load the puter. If it's real heavy and you're short of man power then you can use a come-a-long to pull it into the trailer. Loading is generally pretty easy but unloading is tricky! A lot of times the load will run away from you and it will try to stop and tip over when it gets to the ground. Also it will sometimes try to push the boards out off the trailer. If that happens one side will drop to the ground and the thing will tip over. Take your time and be careful unloading. Use plenty of man power if you can get it. Joe > >If you were to move this IBM, how would you have done it? >Keep in mind while I can cover $100 worth of gas for my pickup - more than >that is a pinch. > >JP > > From ian_primus at yahoo.com Mon Oct 20 19:32:39 2003 From: ian_primus at yahoo.com (Ian Primus) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:32 2005 Subject: How do _you_ move equipment? What "tools" do you use? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <13B3CB1F-035E-11D8-982F-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> On Monday, October 20, 2003, at 07:24 PM, John Rollins wrote: > LOL... I had an interesting way back when I got my Series/1. Loading > into a minivan mind you... When it got to the loading dock there were > plenty of old cardboard boxes around(big ones!), so we piled them all > up next to the rack and tilted it over... Wham! Once "safely" on its > side, moved it into position and shoved into the back. Lots of fun! > Probably not the greatest idea, but that thing was rock solid. > > -JR > > Heh, you should have seen how I got my Prime minicomputer home... I used my dad's Pontiac Bonneville with a Uhaul trailer, and two friends volunteered to help. Getting it into the trailer was fun. We built a ramp with an old pallet and some plywood, and were able to shove the tape drive and the hard drive cabinet up into the trailer. The system unit was fun, since it was heavier, and strapped to a small pallet. We used a pallet jack and jacket it up, then shoved the pallet jack up the ramp. I ended up just taking the pallet jack with me, I only lived a mile away and they said I could borrow it, so then we offloaded in a similar fashion. Getting the computer into the basement was fun too. I have a walk out basement, but there is a pretty good hill going down to the back yard. I had quite a time running backward behind a Prime 5340 on a pallet jack, trying to keep myself from being run over, and trying to slow the computer down. All went fine, getting the smaller drive cabinets into the basement was easy. The system unit, however, was about a half inch larger than the sliding glass door in the basement, and very, very heavy. I ended up having to dismantle it into the four 'slices', and carry them in individually. I got everything in and set up, but at the moment, I don't know enough about the hardware to get it to boot. The Prime is the biggest computer I have ever moved, but I would imagine that others have much larger systems... One of these days, I hope to find a PDP 11 or a VAX, but I have no idea how to go about moving something as large as an old IBM system. The best thing I could suggest is to talk to someone that moves refrigerators. and maybe borrow one of those heavy duty dolly things, I think they are called refrigerator movers. Good luck with it. Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Oct 20 19:37:25 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:32 2005 Subject: How do _you_ move equipment? What "tools" do you use? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20031020172401.R82021@newshell.lmi.net> On Mon, 20 Oct 2003, JP Hindin wrote: > I believe I'll probably put together a pair of sturdy oak ramps, maybe > 12" wide, that hook to the bumper of the truck. Then I'll use a winch to > pull the IBM up the incline - although I'm not sure yet what to use under > the lower end to stop it grating on the ground once its picked up off its > casters... Perhaps a skateboard? :) a furniture dolly (a skateboard consisting of casters and a framework made of 2x4's), sometimes padded with carpet (about $15 at Harbor Freight) They're also a source for tie-downs, ramps, and for "ramp ends" (brackets to put on the end of your own 2x8's http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=4698 Do you have an adequate winch/"come-along"? Is it 800 pounds TOTAL, or is the largest piece 800 pounds? (If 800 is just the total, then the smaller pieces won't be a problem) If this is the one that I think that it might be, the current/previous owner might have some use for an extra portable ramp, and maybe you could work that into the deal? -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Oct 20 19:39:11 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:32 2005 Subject: How do _you_ move equipment? What "tools" do you use? In-Reply-To: <3F9472F7.9090009@internet1.net> References: <3F9472F7.9090009@internet1.net> Message-ID: <20031020173737.U82021@newshell.lmi.net> > > Perhaps you can rent a car towing trailer? Those are very low to the > > ground generally and you may be able to push it onto the tracks. Renting > > one may well be much cheaper than a truck with a lift gate. On Mon, 20 Oct 2003, Chad Fernandez wrote: > Do you mean a tow dolly? Those don't have decks on them, just a spot > for each of 2 wheels. I'm pretty sure that he means a lowslung flatbed trailer, which is how we used transport cars before the dollies became popular. From Innfogra at aol.com Mon Oct 20 20:17:01 2003 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:32 2005 Subject: How do _you_ move equipment? What "tools" do you use? Message-ID: <186.20c956bd.2cc5e30d@aol.com> > > I believe I'll probably put together a pair of sturdy oak ramps, maybe > > 12" wide, that hook to the bumper of the truck. Then I'll use a winch to > > pull the IBM up the incline - although I'm not sure yet what to use under > > the lower end to stop it grating on the ground once its picked up off its > > casters... Perhaps a skateboard? :) > Your oak ramp is a good idea Use a large sheet of aluminum or steel about 3 foot by 3 foot. Larger is better and stainless steel is better than aluminum. The cabinet will actually skid on the metal until the casters take over going up the ramp. The plate might try to kick out so be careful, particularly if it is too small. If you are going to make a ramp bevel the ends of the boards or put some wedges at the end so the metal doesn't deform. You want a smooth skid surface. Be especially careful of your center of gravity on the incline. Good luck, Paxton Astoria, OR From jrasite at eoni.com Mon Oct 20 20:31:45 2003 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim Arnott) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:32 2005 Subject: Popular Science Message-ID: <3F948C81.6040508@eoni.com> Tony, Sellem, Nice write up. (Nov 2003 Popular Science.) Unfortunately not on their website. I'll scan and OCR if anyone's interested. Jim From dwight.elvey at amd.com Mon Oct 20 21:19:35 2003 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:32 2005 Subject: Looking for 4Kx1 drams Message-ID: <200310210219.TAA20346@clulw009.amd.com> Hi Anyone have a good source for 4Kx1 drams? I need three for my poly8813. I also need 2111's but I've found a place that has these. Dwight From ohh at drizzle.com Mon Oct 20 21:52:01 2003 From: ohh at drizzle.com (O. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:32 2005 Subject: How do _you_ move equipment? What "tools" do you use? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: John Rollins wrote thus: > LOL... I had an interesting way back when I got my Series/1. Loading > into a minivan mind you... When it got to the loading dock there were > plenty of old cardboard boxes around(big ones!), so we piled them all > up next to the rack and tilted it over... Wham! Once "safely" on its > side, moved it into position and shoved into the back. Lots of fun! > Probably not the greatest idea, but that thing was rock solid. When I got my 8/I, a friend and I moved it by tipping it onto its side and sliding it into the back of his car... ...a Ford Pinto hatchback. :) We then somehow crammed an ASR-33 Teletype in beside it, fit the paper tape trays and documentation notebooks into every nook and gap left in the car, and then tried to climb in. We succeeded. My elbows were on the dashboard for the entire trip, and I was acutely aware of the fact that any sudden braking would probably result in a six-foot DEC cabinet sliding forward and packing me neatly into the glove compartment. The amazing thing is that we were, somehow, also able to close the hatchback. :) ...We were young and stupid then. The next time I get a machine of that size I'm hiring a truck and a crew and a furniture dolly and a big ramp, thank you very much... or, at the very least, I won't be using a Ford Pinto again. :) :) -O.- From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Mon Oct 20 22:10:16 2003 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:32 2005 Subject: How do _you_ move equipment? What "tools" do you use? Message-ID: <10e.278e8d31.2cc5fd98@aol.com> In a message dated 10/20/2003 7:42:21 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jplist@kiwigeek.com writes: > Perhaps you can rent a car towing trailer? Those are very low to the > ground generally and you may be able to push it onto the tracks. Renting > one may well be much cheaper than a truck with a lift gate. Tempted. For reasons I won't go into, I've been told that I cannot use a trailor by the person who actually owns the vehicle - I only drive it. Transmissions and various reasons like that. Asides from whether or not I agree or believe this - I'm just trying to make do with what I have. I believe I'll probably put together a pair of sturdy oak ramps, maybe 12" wide, that hook to the bumper of the truck. Then I'll use a winch to pull the IBM up the incline - although I'm not sure yet what to use under the lower end to stop it grating on the ground once its picked up off its casters... Perhaps a skateboard? :) I've moved some heavy things before including an extremely heavy player piano and might be able to off some suggestions. Being able to use a tilt bed trailer is a big help. You can find some low cost tiltbed trailer kits pretty cheaply if you know the capacity of what you're carrying is less or equal to the trailer's. Carpeted furniture dollies are cheap and can take a lot of weight and abuse. get a few of those. As someone said, a come-along is handy for loading or moving up a ramp. There's a thing called a Johnson bar that works great for moving heavy things. it's basically a 6 foot long wooden pry bar with a metal angled end and wheels on one end, so you can lever up something extremely heavy and then move it around because of the wheels. Any rental place should have those. Pallet jacks are nice too. too bad they don't go up higher though. I've seen some companies sell a small motorized lift to raise something like a motorcycle for service. can something like that be rented? If you plan to unload from a pickup's bed, see if there's a ditch or a low spot you can back into to make it lower. barring that, it might be helpful to use whatever you can to make a platform at a height halfway between the truck and the ground so you can manouver onto that first. trying to lower something heavy 2 feet at once is not easy to do. From vcf at siconic.com Mon Oct 20 23:20:09 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:32 2005 Subject: Recommendations for archiving audio tapes In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20031020192548.00b1b508@smtp.wincom.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 20 Oct 2003, Charles E. Fox wrote: > You had better watch those 3/4" tapes, they seem to want to > self destruct after about twelve or fifteen years. Thanks for the tip. I got them about a year ago and definitely need to get them digitized. They are from the late 1970s, but I'm guessing they're still in operable order (California's climate is very forgiving on media). -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Mon Oct 20 23:21:44 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:32 2005 Subject: How do _you_ move equipment? What "tools" do you use? In-Reply-To: <3F9472F7.9090009@internet1.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 20 Oct 2003, Chad Fernandez wrote: > > Perhaps you can rent a car towing trailer? Those are very low to the > > ground generally and you may be able to push it onto the tracks. Renting > > one may well be much cheaper than a truck with a lift gate. > > Do you mean a tow dolly? Those don't have decks on them, just a spot > for each of 2 wheels. I would be referring to a full-length vehicle trailer. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Mon Oct 20 23:26:52 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:32 2005 Subject: How do _you_ move equipment? What "tools" do you use? In-Reply-To: <13B3CB1F-035E-11D8-982F-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 20 Oct 2003, Ian Primus wrote: > the back yard. I had quite a time running backward behind a Prime 5340 > on a pallet jack, trying to keep myself from being run over, and trying > to slow the computer down. All went fine, getting the smaller drive !!! You're lucky you weren't killed! Never, ever, ever, ever, EVER, walk in front of a heavy load like that downhill. I don't care how strong and/or confident you are. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Mon Oct 20 23:28:54 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:32 2005 Subject: Popular Science In-Reply-To: <3F948C81.6040508@eoni.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 20 Oct 2003, Jim Arnott wrote: > Tony, Sellem, > > Nice write up. (Nov 2003 Popular Science.) Unfortunately not on their > website. I'll scan and OCR if anyone's interested. I wasn't even aware of this article until someone pointed it out to me today. An OCR would be nice until I can get to the book store to pick up a copy :) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Oct 20 23:53:11 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:32 2005 Subject: How do _you_ move equipment? What "tools" do you use? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20031020215148.N86768@newshell.lmi.net> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2566653432 that is one hell of a hand truck! From rdd at rddavis.org Tue Oct 21 00:07:13 2003 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:32 2005 Subject: Recommendations for archiving audio tapes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20031021050045.GA477@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Philip Pemberton, from writings of Mon, Oct 20, 2003 at 04:37:05PM +0100: > Get yourself a decent tape recorder - not one of those elcheapo things, a > proper full-size tape deck. I've been using a JVC TD-X335 to archive various > old tapes. Make sure the heads are nice and clean, though. Don't waste time Or, if he wants to preserve them via the analog route, ensuring that they stand a better chance of being readable at some point in the future after various forms of digital media have become obsolete: :-) First, get a good used analog half-inch, or one-inch, two track (this means reel to reel, and yes, only two tracks) mastering tape deck (make sure that the heads are good before proceeding/purchasing), then: 2. clean the heads with 99% isopropyl alcohol using lint-free wipes 3. demagnetize the heads (know what you're doing before doing this, or you could end up permanently magnetizing the heads... an expensive mistake ...and make sure that the tape deck is turned off during the demagnetization process 4. buy an MRL alignment tape and do what needs to be done with that, an oscilloscope, signal generator, etc. 5. do the recording at 30 ips if possible... if you must do it at 15 ips or less, you might want to use DBX-I (noise reduction). but also make a second copy without DBX for archival purposes. 6. ascertain that the source tapes don't have a problem with sticking binder... if they do, you'll need to pop them into a constant 150 degree oven for a while (not a toaster oven... temp. varies too much) 7. clean and demagnetize the heads on a good 3-head cassette deck 8. keep an eye on the VU meters... remember, there's a difference in reading analog and digital VU meters etc... and... have fun! :-) -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From asholz at topinform.com Tue Oct 21 01:35:09 2003 From: asholz at topinform.com (Andreas Holz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:33 2005 Subject: Xerox Dandilion In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3F94D39D.8090002@topinform.com> Hello all, recently I got two Xerox Dandilions and one monitor (including keyboard and mouse) , alltogether somehow in parts. I'm going to try assemble at least one machine. I'm interested in which kind of software is available for these machines (e.g. Interlisp, Smalltalk ...) somewhere. Andreas From geoffr at zipcon.net Tue Oct 21 03:57:17 2003 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:33 2005 Subject: Tandy model IV floppy controller In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20031020154951.02ee3120@pop-server.socal.rr.com > References: <3F8DD0F1.10683.15BC8E7@localhost> <5.1.0.14.0.20031020154951.02ee3120@pop-server.socal.rr.com> Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.2.20031021015601.04b30a80@mail.zipcon.net> Ok, anyone out there have any docs on a Progressive computer products FDC IIIB ? seems that's what is in my tandy model IV as it's floppy controller and I'm interested in learning hte capabilities of this card :) From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Oct 21 07:09:53 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:33 2005 Subject: Looking for 4Kx1 drams In-Reply-To: <200310210219.TAA20346@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031021080953.007e4100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Dwight, You didn't say what kind of DRAMs you need. I have some TMS 4060s. I think they're a replacement for the Intel 2107s. I also have some NEC uPD4140s. These are 4k x 1 DRAMs (+-5V,12V, TriState). Also some 4104 RAMs. I haven't looked them up but they sound like they might be 4k. Joe At 07:19 PM 10/20/03 -0700, you wrote: >Hi > Anyone have a good source for 4Kx1 drams? > I need three for my poly8813. I also need 2111's >but I've found a place that has these. >Dwight > > > From vance at neurotica.com Tue Oct 21 08:48:18 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:33 2005 Subject: Recommendations for archiving audio tapes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 20 Oct 2003, John Lawson wrote: > Some machines have a 48K setting; this is for 'professional' DATs and > things that need to sync to SMPTE/Video/etc without all the gearbox > whickey - as I'm sure you're (painfully...?) aware of. ;} What about HDCD @ 44.1K x 20-bit? Peace... Sridhar From jpl15 at panix.com Tue Oct 21 08:54:15 2003 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:33 2005 Subject: Recommendations for archiving audio tapes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, 21 Oct 2003 vance@neurotica.com wrote: > On Mon, 20 Oct 2003, John Lawson wrote: > > > Some machines have a 48K setting; this is for 'professional' DATs and > > things that need to sync to SMPTE/Video/etc without all the gearbox > > whickey - as I'm sure you're (painfully...?) aware of. ;} > > What about HDCD @ 44.1K x 20-bit? > Smarty-pants! Chs J From jrasite at eoni.com Tue Oct 21 09:06:26 2003 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim Arnott) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:33 2005 Subject: Popular Science In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3F953D61.5040203@eoni.com> I'll scan this evening. Jim Vintage Computer Festival wrote: >On Mon, 20 Oct 2003, Jim Arnott wrote: > > > >>Tony, Sellem, >> >>Nice write up. (Nov 2003 Popular Science.) Unfortunately not on their >>website. I'll scan and OCR if anyone's interested. >> >> > >I wasn't even aware of this article until someone pointed it out to me >today. An OCR would be nice until I can get to the book store to pick up >a copy :) > > > From fernande at internet1.net Tue Oct 21 09:15:12 2003 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:33 2005 Subject: How do _you_ move equipment? What "tools" do you use? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3F953F70.5070901@internet1.net> Oh, I guess the car trailers that I have seen aren't as low as I was thinking you meant. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Vintage Computer Festival wrote: >>Do you mean a tow dolly? Those don't have decks on them, just a spot >>for each of 2 wheels. > > > I would be referring to a full-length vehicle trailer. > From wrljet at yahoo.com Tue Oct 21 09:31:44 2003 From: wrljet at yahoo.com (Bill Lewis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:33 2005 Subject: How do _you_ move equipment? What "tools" do you use? In-Reply-To: <200310211224.h9LCNKgI016753@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20031021143144.33066.qmail@web13609.mail.yahoo.com> This is how I do it... http://www.wrljet.com/bridgeport/ Bill __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com From allain at panix.com Tue Oct 21 10:06:33 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:33 2005 Subject: How do _you_ move equipment? What "tools" do you use? References: <3.0.6.32.20031020201059.007c9c20@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <005201c397e4$ea7b6980$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > You should be aware that a lot of the lift gates are > junk! They're actually worse than that, they're downright > dangerous! We moved a VAX6000 using one of those. Once you get used to the nasty slope, you can cope. We used a long high-tension strap and continuously start-stopped the gate and then re-tightened the strap. Added a few minutes to the process but made it safe. Do take good measurements of a lift-gate before commiting. John A. From vcf at siconic.com Tue Oct 21 10:41:54 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:33 2005 Subject: How do _you_ move equipment? What "tools" do you use? In-Reply-To: <20031021143144.33066.qmail@web13609.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 21 Oct 2003, Bill Lewis wrote: > This is how I do it... > > http://www.wrljet.com/bridgeport/ Nice job, but that is a lot of lumber and work :/ -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vance at neurotica.com Tue Oct 21 10:56:32 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:33 2005 Subject: How do _you_ move equipment? What "tools" do you use? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 20 Oct 2003, JP Hindin wrote: > I am faced with picking up a sizeable IBM some hours from where I live > in the next few weeks. What I had originally planned to do has fallen > through, and now I am left trying to work out how best to lift what has > been estimated as 800+lbs of 1978 IBM. Truck with liftgate is your friend. > I have a decent half-ton pickup truck, its more than plenty for carrying > this machine home. The magic trick is - how do I get the heavy sucker > into the deck? There are two methods: 1. Get a Forklift. Any forklift, even a tiny one will do. 2. Use a metal ramp and get six or seven large friends. > I was planning on "borrowing" another truck with a lift-gate on it, to > lift the IBM up to the pickup deck height, and then waffling it into the > pickup. That has fallen through, and actually renting one is, as far as > I'm concerned, cost prohibitive ($78 + 29c/mile + $150 deposit). > > If you were to move this IBM, how would you have done it? Keep in mind > while I can cover $100 worth of gas for my pickup - more than that is a > pinch. With your limitations, find a few strong friends and use a metal moving ramp. Peace... Sridhar From vance at neurotica.com Tue Oct 21 11:12:24 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:33 2005 Subject: How do _you_ move equipment? What "tools" do you use? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 20 Oct 2003, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > the back yard. I had quite a time running backward behind a Prime 5340 > > on a pallet jack, trying to keep myself from being run over, and > > trying to slow the computer down. All went fine, getting the smaller > > drive > > !!! > > You're lucky you weren't killed! Never, ever, ever, ever, EVER, walk in > front of a heavy load like that downhill. I don't care how strong > and/or confident you are. I've done what he described, but the pallet jack I was using had a brake that activated when you release the handle. I wouldn't have done it without that brake. If you have a large enough number of people on a load, you can survive quite a lot. I once had a VAX 6000 fall on me from a little more than two feet off the ground. Because there were enough people to move it before it crushed me (and they were all paying attention), I got off with just sore joints and muscles. Peace... Sridhar From vance at neurotica.com Tue Oct 21 11:13:55 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:33 2005 Subject: How do _you_ move equipment? What "tools" do you use? In-Reply-To: <20031020215148.N86768@newshell.lmi.net> Message-ID: I would *love* to have one of these. Too bad it's so expensive. Peace... Sridhar On Mon, 20 Oct 2003, Fred Cisin wrote: > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2566653432 > > that is one hell of a hand truck! > > > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Oct 21 11:20:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:33 2005 Subject: How do _you_ move equipment? What "tools" do you use? In-Reply-To: <20031021143144.33066.qmail@web13609.mail.yahoo.com> References: <200310211224.h9LCNKgI016753@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031021122000.007eb100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> This reminds me. About 15 years ago I bought a lathe with everything that I could want, 12" x 18" bed, 1 7/8" bore trough the spindle, english and metric feed, etc. This thing was MASSIVE! Everyting was made of cast iron; the bed, the pedestal, even the chip tray on it was made from cast iron. I don't know the exact weight but we guesstimated 3000 pounds! It bent a 1500 pound engine hoist like a pretzel. When I got it home I called a nearby place that had a wrecker that could pick up the tractor units from semi tractor trailers. It had a hydraulic powered long T-shaped boom the could be extended a long way and was rated to pick up 15,000 pounds or something like that. We brought the lathe in on a flat bed cad trailer and parked it in the road in front of the house. We then put a sling around the lathe and hooked it to the boom. They picked it up like it was nothing! They then backed it around the house and got it close to the building where I wanted it, then extended the boom and set the lathe right at the end of the building. (How I actually got it IN the building is another story!) The whole operation only took about five minutes and they only charged about $20. (I did give the driver a generous tip!) It was WELL worth it! Joe At 07:31 AM 10/21/03 -0700, you wrote: >This is how I do it... > >http://www.wrljet.com/bridgeport/ > >Bill > > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search >http://shopping.yahoo.com > From bpope at wordstock.com Tue Oct 21 12:43:46 2003 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:33 2005 Subject: How do _you_ move equipment? What "tools" do you use? In-Reply-To: from "vance@neurotica.com" at Oct 21, 03 12:12:24 pm Message-ID: <200310211743.NAA00664@wordstock.com> And thusly vance@neurotica.com spake: > > If you have a large enough number of people on a load, you can survive > quite a lot. I once had a VAX 6000 fall on me from a little more than two > feet off the ground. Because there were enough people to move it before > it crushed me (and they were all paying attention), I got off with just > sore joints and muscles. hmmmm... The Attack of the VAX? ;-) Cheers, Bryan From wrljet at yahoo.com Tue Oct 21 13:02:27 2003 From: wrljet at yahoo.com (Bill Lewis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:33 2005 Subject: How do _you_ move equipment? What "tools" do you use? In-Reply-To: <200310211719.h9LHJhgI017714@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <20031021180227.24562.qmail@web13606.mail.yahoo.com> Cheapest machinery mover in the area wanted $800 to move the machine from the seller's location to my driveway. > They then backed it around the house and got it close to the building where > I wanted it, then extended the boom and set the lathe right at the end of > the building. (How I actually got it IN the building is another story!) The > whole operation only took about five minutes and they only charged about > $20. (I did give the driver a generous tip!) It was WELL worth it! > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue Oct 21 14:11:04 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:33 2005 Subject: How do _you_ move equipment? What "tools" do you use? References: <20031021180227.24562.qmail@web13606.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <01a301c39807$12da5f40$033310ac@kwcorp.com> For moving racks, I just use a regular van, with a few extra steps. I have found that I can easily move one or two 19" six foot racks by myself with ease. It just so happens most of the racks I move are on casters. And I keep everything in my basement, which has double walk out doors onto a concrete patio which is level with the back yard. The yard is fenced, but there is a large double gate in back, which opens to a large common area between the two rows of houses that goes up to the major street. So when I pick up a rack with the van, I wheel it to the back of the van, back of the rack facing the van. On the bed of the van is a huge cut piece of plywood fitted to the contours of the van floor outline. The metal rack will slide MUCH easier on plywood than metal. I tilt the rack back gently until the back side of the rack is leaned up against the edge of the van floor. Then go around front of the rack and tilt it backwards further. Then just push from the bottom of the rack in, sliding easy on the plywood. Because of the way the rack is "tilted in" against the edge, I have found I can easily move VERY heavy racks, much heavier than I normally would be able to, because the edge of the van bed acts like a fulcrum point. You're actually never lifting it, just tilting slowly. This way the rack is laying on its back on the van floor, and rackmount components won't slide out at all. Depending on the configuration of the rack and it's doors, sometimes I may wrap once around the rack with tape or a tie down to keep the doors closed if that's a problem. The only issue I've run into doing it this way is if power cables, etc. are on the back door - have to have a smooth surface to slide on. Sometimes I will also put a big rug or shipping blanket on the edge so that when the rack tilts back it is on a blanket. I will always do this if the rack is taped or tied around, because the tiedowns will make it slide much less easily. The blanket against the plywood slides easily. Then I drive the van through the common area, back up onto the cement patio just in front of the walkout doors. Pull on the bottom of the rack until it slides out enough that the weight makes it start tilting down and let it down easy. Then it's an easy matter of tilting it up and just wheeling it into the basement. Once you do this a few times, you get a good feel for where the weight distribution in the rack is, the center of gravity, and if the edge of the van floor is just the right height and you make good use of these things to help you, it becomes very easy. I've moved two racks at a time, some weighing almost 1000 pounds... by myself with no real straining. Just make the weight work for you on the tilting. Now what I REALLY want - is one of those lift genies that is like a hand truck but with a large flat platform that you pump up and down. Not to move racks, but to lift disc drives and tape drives up from 5 inches to 5 feet, so that they can be easily rackmounted. Haven't found one cheap yet though. Jay West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From jbmcb at hotmail.com Tue Oct 21 14:43:06 2003 From: jbmcb at hotmail.com (Jason McBrien) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:33 2005 Subject: How do _you_ move equipment? What "tools" do you use? References: <20031021180227.24562.qmail@web13606.mail.yahoo.com> <01a301c39807$12da5f40$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: I've moved a full height Comtal Vision/One 19" rack in the back of a standard Plymouth Voyager minivan. Just barely fit, with the front seat moved up a bit. I even managed to manhandle it into my basement by myself, though it *was* empty and had the side and front panels removed. I'll soon see if an Aztec has as much room... As for disk/tape drives, have you looked into using an engine hoist? It may be much cheaper than a portable hydraulic lift, and more maneuverable to boot. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jay West" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2003 3:11 PM Subject: Re: How do _you_ move equipment? What "tools" do you use? > For moving racks, I just use a regular van, with a few extra steps. I have > found that I can easily move one or two 19" six foot racks by myself with > ease. > > It just so happens most of the racks I move are on casters. And I keep > everything in my basement, which has double walk out doors onto a concrete > patio which is level with the back yard. The yard is fenced, but there is a > large double gate in back, which opens to a large common area between the > two rows of houses that goes up to the major street. > > So when I pick up a rack with the van, I wheel it to the back of the van, > back of the rack facing the van. On the bed of the van is a huge cut piece > of plywood fitted to the contours of the van floor outline. The metal rack > will slide MUCH easier on plywood than metal. I tilt the rack back gently > until the back side of the rack is leaned up against the edge of the van > floor. Then go around front of the rack and tilt it backwards further. Then > just push from the bottom of the rack in, sliding easy on the plywood. > Because of the way the rack is "tilted in" against the edge, I have found I > can easily move VERY heavy racks, much heavier than I normally would be able > to, because the edge of the van bed acts like a fulcrum point. You're > actually never lifting it, just tilting slowly. This way the rack is laying > on its back on the van floor, and rackmount components won't slide out at > all. > > Depending on the configuration of the rack and it's doors, sometimes I may > wrap once around the rack with tape or a tie down to keep the doors closed > if that's a problem. The only issue I've run into doing it this way is if > power cables, etc. are on the back door - have to have a smooth surface to > slide on. Sometimes I will also put a big rug or shipping blanket on the > edge so that when the rack tilts back it is on a blanket. I will always do > this if the rack is taped or tied around, because the tiedowns will make it > slide much less easily. The blanket against the plywood slides easily. > > Then I drive the van through the common area, back up onto the cement patio > just in front of the walkout doors. Pull on the bottom of the rack until it > slides out enough that the weight makes it start tilting down and let it > down easy. Then it's an easy matter of tilting it up and just wheeling it > into the basement. > > Once you do this a few times, you get a good feel for where the weight > distribution in the rack is, the center of gravity, and if the edge of the > van floor is just the right height and you make good use of these things to > help you, it becomes very easy. I've moved two racks at a time, some > weighing almost 1000 pounds... by myself with no real straining. Just make > the weight work for you on the tilting. > > Now what I REALLY want - is one of those lift genies that is like a hand > truck but with a large flat platform that you pump up and down. Not to move > racks, but to lift disc drives and tape drives up from 5 inches to 5 feet, > so that they can be easily rackmounted. Haven't found one cheap yet though. > > Jay West > > --- > [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Oct 21 14:49:25 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:33 2005 Subject: Prom/EPROM history Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031021154925.007e6550@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I found this on the net and thought some of you might find it interesting. Joe From jpl15 at panix.com Tue Oct 21 15:04:01 2003 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:33 2005 Subject: How do _you_ move equipment? What "tools" do you use? In-Reply-To: <01a301c39807$12da5f40$033310ac@kwcorp.com> References: <20031021180227.24562.qmail@web13606.mail.yahoo.com> <01a301c39807$12da5f40$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 21 Oct 2003, Jay West wrote: > For moving racks, I just use a regular van, with a few extra steps. I have [SNIPPAGE] > > Now what I REALLY want - is one of those lift genies that is like a hand > truck but with a large flat platform that you pump up and down. Not to move > racks, but to lift disc drives and tape drives up from 5 inches to 5 feet, > so that they can be easily rackmounted. Haven't found one cheap yet though. The cheapest I've found this item new (and I still have faint hopes of discovering one used) is in the Global Industrial catalog, www.globalindustrial.com there's one that has a hand-winch and lifts 500 pounds from 4.25" to 54" high... it's $410, part number HN585198. I'm actually considering this one - coming from someone who has installed Kennedy 9300 machines up 4' in a rack by himself - because it's exactly the thing for shifting and positioning Big Heavy Computing Thingies - or BHCTs as we Collectors fondly know them. The catalog lists many others - from hand to hydraulic power, but they get expensive fast. Still, $400 ain't that bad for what it is... Cheerz John From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Oct 21 14:50:35 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:33 2005 Subject: OT : tape heads and cleaning tapes. Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 520 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20031021/808498c9/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Oct 21 14:57:13 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:33 2005 Subject: Sony disk drives Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2056 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20031021/4385ab99/attachment.ksh From allain at panix.com Tue Oct 21 15:46:20 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:33 2005 Subject: How do _you_ move equipment? What "tools" do you use? References: <20031021180227.24562.qmail@web13606.mail.yahoo.com> <01a301c39807$12da5f40$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <015101c39814$622a19c0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > Now what I REALLY want - is one of those lift genies that is like a > hand truck but with a large flat platform that you pump up and down. > Not to move racks, but to lift disc drives and tape drives up from 5 > inches to 5 feet, so that they can be easily rackmounted. Haven't > found one cheap yet though. I would pay up to $350 for such a thing (it sounds too perfect). I've been looking for it in the form of a "scissor jack" As it is I'm going to complete a device this Thursday It's 5 pieces of steel welded in an archway configuration, 8' high with a 1000 lb dead-lift rated come-along at the top pulling a plywood elevator with steel cables. Total cost: $65 plus labor. It'll be a compromise, I expect it to lift no more than 200 lb., for racking. John A. From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue Oct 21 16:02:41 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:33 2005 Subject: How do _you_ move equipment? What "tools" do you use? References: <20031021180227.24562.qmail@web13606.mail.yahoo.com><01a301c39807$12da5f40$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <015101c39814$622a19c0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <027f01c39816$ab447a40$033310ac@kwcorp.com> most scissor lift type stuff isn't what I want... they have too limited of a range of motion, and are very heavy. The thing I am thinking of HP CE's use regularly nowdays, and you can darn near pick up the thing and put it under your arm and walk away with it. http://www.genielift.com/ml-series/ml-1-2.asp THAT is what I want! It's not as light as the HP ones, but it would be perfect. Jay ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Allain" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2003 3:46 PM Subject: Re: How do _you_ move equipment? What "tools" do you use? > > Now what I REALLY want - is one of those lift genies that is like a > > hand truck but with a large flat platform that you pump up and down. > > Not to move racks, but to lift disc drives and tape drives up from 5 > > inches to 5 feet, so that they can be easily rackmounted. Haven't > > found one cheap yet though. > > I would pay up to $350 for such a thing (it sounds too > perfect). I've been looking for it in the form of a "scissor jack" > > As it is I'm going to complete a device this Thursday > It's 5 pieces of steel welded in an archway configuration, 8' high > with a 1000 lb dead-lift rated come-along at the top pulling a > plywood elevator with steel cables. Total cost: $65 plus labor. > It'll be a compromise, I expect it to lift no more than 200 lb., for > racking. > > John A. > > > --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From waltje at pdp11.nl Tue Oct 21 16:38:36 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:33 2005 Subject: How do _you_ move equipment? What "tools" do you use? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 20 Oct 2003, JP Hindin wrote: > I am faced with picking up a sizeable IBM some hours from where I live in > the next few weeks. > What I had originally planned to do has fallen through, and now I am left > trying to work out how best to lift what has been estimated as 800+lbs of > 1978 IBM. Heh. Heavy iron requires the use of heavy neighbors. Er. Did I just say that? Ahwell. Tis true. Although I can usually move the smaller stuff in either my own (sedan) car, or a small van, big stuff needs a truck with a not-too-high loading bay. I'd kill for a used U-Haul truck here, really... those, albeit ragged down, are perfect for loading up old iron... And, then, of course, the neighbors and friends come into the picture, 'cos at some point, the goods needs to be moved into a storage, garage, or, in my case, upstairs room :) (yes, that is always a neighborhood project here.. and they love it ;-) Cheers, Fred -- Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist Visit the VAXlab Project at http://www.pdp11.nl/VAXlab/ Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Sunnyvale, CA, USA From waltje at pdp11.nl Tue Oct 21 16:45:02 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:33 2005 Subject: DEC Roamabout? Message-ID: Hiyas, Nyone here (relly) familiar with these beasties? I now have two sets of them, and gawdamit, they dont talk together. I have one set being the DEIRB-AG (my first set), and the set of new cards are DEIRB-DA's. Cant yet tell whether its the cards, their firmware or the drivers. Although... I tried one of the DA's in my access point, and that one doesnt seem to be too happy with the card, either, so it could well be the card or its firmware... Any clues? (yes, all cards are labelled 2400/FH, by the way ;-) Cheers, Fred -- Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist Visit the VAXlab Project at http://www.pdp11.nl/VAXlab/ Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Sunnyvale, CA, USA From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Tue Oct 21 16:58:47 2003 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:33 2005 Subject: How do _you_ move equipment? What "tools" do you use? Message-ID: In a message dated 10/21/2003 4:51:54 PM Eastern Daylight Time, allain@panix.com writes: << > Now what I REALLY want - is one of those lift genies that is like a > hand truck but with a large flat platform that you pump up and down. > Not to move racks, but to lift disc drives and tape drives up from 5 > inches to 5 feet, so that they can be easily rackmounted. Haven't > found one cheap yet though. I would pay up to $350 for such a thing (it sounds too perfect). I've been looking for it in the form of a "scissor jack" >> take a look at globalindustrial.com From arcarlini at iee.org Tue Oct 21 17:30:43 2003 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:33 2005 Subject: DEC Roamabout? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <004901c39822$fe67a060$5b01a8c0@athlon> > Nyone here (relly) familiar with these beasties? I now have > two sets of them, and gawdamit, they dont talk together. I > have one set being the DEIRB-AG (my first set), and the set > of new cards are DEIRB-DA's. Cant yet tell whether its the > cards, their firmware or the drivers. Although... I tried > one of the DA's in my access point, and that one doesnt seem > to be too happy with the card, either, so it could well be > the card or its firmware... The Roamabouts initially came out way before 802.11b and so they did their own thing. Once 802.11b became the way to go the firmware changed to follow the rest of the world. (I don't recall whether the previous scheme was in any way better or worse than 802.11b, but it was incompatible). The latest 802.11b firmware *was* available at the dnpg site until quite recently but the last time I looked the page(s) for their "legacy" stuff were not responding. The *older* firmware is no longer easily available. I know people have looked for it before now, so if you do find it, it's worth hanging on to. I have no idea if it's possible to extract the firmware from the device (probably not). Your problem could, of course, be something else entirely. If you have some 802.11b gear around, you could see if either set will talk to (or even just see) that. Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From David.Kane at aph.gov.au Tue Oct 21 18:22:12 2003 From: David.Kane at aph.gov.au (Kane, David (DPRS)) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:33 2005 Subject: SYSTEM 80 Schematics Message-ID: <55919996450608449304DEE79482EEC2080B9C@email1.parl.net> The technical manual is hosted on Terry Stewart's great System 80 site at: http://www.webweavers.co.nz/system-80/manuals_technical.htm The site has the manual with the copyright owners permission which includes the schematics. David -----Original Message----- From: Geoff Gunn [mailto:vax@onthenet.com.au] Sent: Sunday, 19 October 2003 10:05 PM To: cctech@classiccmp.org Subject: SYSTEM 80 Schematics Mike, I just found you message about having the ciruit diagrams for a Disk Smith System 80. I found one of these the other day in a recyling center and always had a soft spot for them as it was first computer. The one I found works, but has a problem in the video circuit. It is repairable, but would be a lot easier if I had schematics to work from (I collect video games from the same era as well so my skills in repairing these would help me a great deal :) If you have a scan or even a photocopy of this manual, I would glady purchase it off you. Cheers, Geoff From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue Oct 21 18:12:05 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:33 2005 Subject: ARM Evaluation System discs Message-ID: <10310220012.ZM9448@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Some of you will remember a thread earlier this year, in which various of us discussed the ARM Evaluation System -- an ARM Second Processor for a BBC Microcomputer -- and bemoaned either our lack of discs, or that we had a Disc 1 that was corrupt. Well, thanks to a kind benefactor who provided me with an *un*corrupt Disc 1, I've been able to copy them and make them available on my website. If you have an ARM Evaluation System and need the software, go to http://www.dunnington.u-net.com/public/BBC/ARMeval.html What's there are ZIP files; I thought about making disc images, but I can't get Xfer to behave :-( However, the discs are just normal ADFS discs, and my webpage has links to the things required to unpack them on a Beeb or an Arc (or later RISC OS machine) so there shouldn't be any problem. However, if anyone on the list deperately needs actual discs, and can provide me with suitable blanks (5.25" DSDD or 3.5" DSDD, not HD), I'll be happy to make copies. Apologies to those who're on both the BBC Micro list and the ClassicCmp list, and get two copies of this. To those who're on both *and* in my private "ARMeval" list, well, good things always come in threes :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From ian_primus at yahoo.com Tue Oct 21 19:19:58 2003 From: ian_primus at yahoo.com (Ian Primus) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:33 2005 Subject: How do _you_ move equipment? What "tools" do you use? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <7817713A-0425-11D8-982F-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> On Tuesday, October 21, 2003, at 12:26 AM, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Mon, 20 Oct 2003, Ian Primus wrote: > >> the back yard. I had quite a time running backward behind a Prime 5340 >> on a pallet jack, trying to keep myself from being run over, and >> trying >> to slow the computer down. All went fine, getting the smaller drive > > !!! > > You're lucky you weren't killed! Never, ever, ever, ever, EVER, walk > in > front of a heavy load like that downhill. I don't care how strong > and/or > confident you are. Well, I wasn't _intending_ to do that... I had two friends helping me, and we were slowly working it down, when one person tripped and the other one couldn't hold on, I just happened to pretty close to in front of it at the time, and ended up directly in front of it, pushing against it to slow it down. Everything worked out fine, but next time I try to move something like that, I am going to talk more friends into helping me. Maybe if I bribe them with pizza... Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer > Festival > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage > Computers ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at > http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Oct 21 19:31:18 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:33 2005 Subject: MOS operating System? In-Reply-To: <022001c37863$c2269630$0100a8c0@LANCE> References: <3.0.6.32.20030910085322.009076f0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20030911083819.007d1470@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031021203118.007c8b10@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> lance, I mailed the MOS package to you today. I mailed it airmail as you requested. It costs $32.75!!!! Joe At 10:53 PM 9/11/03 +1000, you wrote: >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Joe" >To: >Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2003 10:38 PM >Subject: Re: MOS operating System? > > >> OK I'll pick it up tomorrow if it's still there. (I expect that it is). >> Shoot me your address and I'll let you know how much postage is. > >4 Pioneer St >Bathurst NSW 2795 >Australia > From ian_primus at yahoo.com Tue Oct 21 19:58:38 2003 From: ian_primus at yahoo.com (Ian Primus) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:33 2005 Subject: Can anyone ID this Digital board? Message-ID: I found this board at a scrapper's in a bin of circuit boards (I was looking for EPROM chips). This one had some interesting chips on it, but it also had those funny off center modular jack things, so I recognized it as Digital. What did this come from? My best guess would be a VaxStation, but I don't really know. I would like to get this machine functional (I always wanted something I could run VMS on). Can anyone help me with the pinouts of the power connector? Can I connect some sort of disk drive to boot from, or do I need some additional controller boards? What are the ports for, and how would I connect a terminal? Is it even worth the effort to try and rebuild this computer, or should I just continue on my quest for a VAX? Thanks! http://24.194.65.231/images/digital_board_1.jpg http://24.194.65.231/images/digital_board_2.jpg http://24.194.65.231/images/digital_board_3.jpg Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com From vcf at siconic.com Tue Oct 21 20:56:48 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:33 2005 Subject: How do _you_ move equipment? What "tools" do you use? In-Reply-To: <01a301c39807$12da5f40$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 21 Oct 2003, Jay West wrote: > Now what I REALLY want - is one of those lift genies that is like a hand > truck but with a large flat platform that you pump up and down. Not to move > racks, but to lift disc drives and tape drives up from 5 inches to 5 feet, > so that they can be easily rackmounted. Haven't found one cheap yet though. Yes, that would be nice. There are also portable lift gates you can get for no more than $500-$600 that you "plug in" to the tow hitch of your van or pickup. I know someone locally who has one and it's pretty nifty. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From jrasite at eoni.com Tue Oct 21 21:46:57 2003 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim Arnott) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:33 2005 Subject: Popular Science article Message-ID: <3F95EFA1.3070308@eoni.com> GEEK DIY BY PAUL WALLICH The Pride of FrankenMac Lurking in the shadows of Moore's Law is a subculture of retrocomputerists who believe PCs only get better with age. DOWN IN THE SPARE ROOM IS the computer I affectionately call Frank. As in FrankenMac. It has the case and motherboard of a Macintosh clone from 1997, stuffed with new RAM and a CPU upgrade six times the speed of the original. It's on its second video board and Ethernet card, and has a USB adaptor (a technology barely invented when Frank was born) and a replacement 60GB disk. I installed Linux on it a while back because the last few generations of MacOS never did run quite right. And what with the realities of my eat-at-your-desk household, I've lost count of how many keyboards Frank has gone through. In the world of active-yet-obsolete, the polite term is "vintage computers." Frank is an infant. As the era of mass-market personal computing heads for its 30th year, no one knows how many superannuated desktops are still out there chugging away, though reports from around the Net mention still-active Apple IIs, Commodore 64s, first-generation IBM PCs and clones, and even the odd IBM PCjr (a scaleddown, overpriced PC offshoot that garnered widespread ridicule when it was introduced back in 1983). There are three types of people responsible for this computing-with-the-undead phenomenon. I like to think of them as the nostalgists, the pragmatists and the adaptists. The nostalgist impulse sequesters ancient machines in ad hoc museum collections-veteran programmer Bruce Darner's Digibarn (digibarn.com), for instance, houses hundreds of PCs dating back to the mid-'70s. Damer says he keeps old hardware and software running because static museum displays do nothing to convey the actual experience of using a Radio Shack TRS-80 with its subminiature tape drives, or one of Steve jobs's original Next cubes. Damer invites computer builders and users to his museum to put their reminiscences on video for the day when old components finally give up the ghost. Meanwhile, says Vintage Computer Festival organizer Sellam Ismail, the pragmatists are plugging away at dayto-day office work on uncounted thousands of archaic PCs. When Dell ran a contest back in 1999 for the oldest small-business PC still in use, the company turned up more than 200 worthy entries in addition to the winner, an Altair 8800b that had been used for word processing since October 1976. And aging control computers that run industrial or lab equipment generally don't get replaced until the machinery they're attached to wears out --one classic-computer aficionado says his mass spectrometer has been hooked up to the same Apple II for 20 years. Finally, adaptists around the world continue to bang out letters, novels, e-mail and code on revamped elderly machines. Consider British electronics designer and ex-particle physicist Tony Duell, whose primary machine is a pervasively upgraded PC-AT from 1986. (Among the many other computers running in his house is a 31-year-old PDP-11 minicomputer.) "Why?!" asks the megahertz junkie in me. "Why not?" replies my retrocomputing alter ego. Fact is, if you don't absolutely need your computer to play broadcast-quality video clips in 3-D windows while you navigate via throbbing full-color control buttons that unleash CD-grade stereo sound with each click, you probably don't need a machine built in the past 10 years--certainly not for your backup basement machine. Sticking with the same computer ("same" being a relative term) also yields real benefits, says Duell. You seldom have to throw away your old software, and you're less likely to misplace crucial files, as can happen when upgrading from one machine to another. "I never trust people who say they'll copy all the files over to the new machine," Duell laments. "They never do, and five years later some poor person like me is called in to recover a file from some unknown floppy disk." If you're willing to install Linux or FreeBSD instead of the bloated monsters that pass for in dust industry-standard operating systems, a 386 or 486 machine with 16 or 32 megabytes of RAM will do just fine for everyday work. Even if you're addicted to windows and mice, there are some minimal windowing systems whose entire program code takes up less RAM than half a dozen icons on a fancier box. (A simple Google search for "minimal window system" yields a range of options,) And all the hype about Internet-optimized Pentia notwithstanding, 386 and 486 computers around the globe serve as firewalls and routers, e-mail and Web servers directing Internet packets to their destinations in homes and small offices. It only stands to reason, after all, that a machine capable of performing tens of millions Of 32-bit operations per second should be able to keep up with a pipe that delivers no more than a million bits of new data in that time. Finally, in an age when bleeding-edge hardware can set you back a few thousand dollars every year or two, the price of obsolete technology looks right. Used-computer dealers sell perfectly capable machines for $50 to $100-or you can try to snag one of the millions of working PCs that end their lives in dumpsters every year. Even vintagecomputer users who bought new and pay top dollar for parts upgrades are saving a bundle: Duell, for one, hasn't bought a new kit since 1995. 1 have mixed feelings about the whole enterprise. On the one hand, I'm always going to lust after the newest, fastest hardware out there. On the other, I can't bear to get rid of my old toys. Maybe Frank will become a Web server or an image-processing engine or an outlet for some of my stupider software ideas. And if I make some terrible, terrible hacking error on Frank, I'll still have the working--if far less romantic-machine on the desk in my office. SO YOU WANT TO RESUSCITATE AN OLD PC? IF YOU DON'T ALREADY HAVE AN old computer cluttering up your closet, you'll have to cadge one from a friend, find the nearest office trashing old machines this week, or visit your local computer junk store -the place on the other side of town from me offers 30OMHz Pentium Ils with 128MB of RAM and a 4GB drive for $95, or 20OMHz PenHum Is with 48MB of RAM and a 2G8 drive for $50. When I asked about 486 boxes, one of the techs pointed me toward the clumpsters in back and asked, "How many pallets do you want?" (YOU can also find old computers on eBay, but the cost and risk of shipping 30 or 40 pounds of iron across the country tends to kill any price advantage.) Once you've got the machine, junk its obsolete Windows system, flip a coin to decide between FreeBSD and Linux (the first will probably be more work; the second probably requires a slightly heftier computer) and start downloading. (You can find either system at linuxiso.org.) if you have a computer with a CD-ROM burner, you'll typically be making three installation CDs-if you don't, you can scrounge one, order one online for $50 or so, or read the instructions for installing from floppies. (A barebones installation sufficient for sucking the rest of the software down over an Ethernet connection is only a few disks, and a no-name Ethernet card, if you don't have one, is about $ 10. While you're at it, consider another $60 for a 30GB hard drive. Don't worry: These days all the plugs for such things fit in only one way.) Depending on what you want your new old machine to do -browse and read e-mail, serve files, act as a router or firewall -installing the operating system and the appropriate free software (on FrankenMac, that's Mozilla, Open Office and probably Portable AllegroServe) should take about half a day. TOTAL COST: Anywhere from zilch to about $200. From allain at panix.com Tue Oct 21 21:49:40 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:33 2005 Subject: Can anyone ID this Digital board? References: Message-ID: <003a01c39847$246366e0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> The numbers off photo2 were 54-18856 rev 01, 50-18855-01 someone? >From what I see: three serial ports, no video port, Ethernet, "1990". My guess is a microVAX(server) 3100 without memory or SCSI. limited use. Put it in an antistatic bag and find a complete system for about $50. If you want a vaxstation (not server) I'll just give you one. > I found this board at a scrapper's in a bin of circuit boards (I was > looking for EPROM chips). This one had some The list is a great source for ROMs. Just ask. John A. From vcf at siconic.com Tue Oct 21 22:18:41 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:33 2005 Subject: How do _you_ move equipment? What "tools" do you use? In-Reply-To: <7817713A-0425-11D8-982F-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 21 Oct 2003, Ian Primus wrote: > Well, I wasn't _intending_ to do that... I had two friends helping me, > and we were slowly working it down, when one person tripped and the > other one couldn't hold on, I just happened to pretty close to in front > of it at the time, and ended up directly in front of it, pushing > against it to slow it down. Everything worked out fine, but next time I > try to move something like that, I am going to talk more friends into > helping me. Maybe if I bribe them with pizza... Yeah, get some friends with more athletic skills as well ;) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From netsurfer_x1 at fastmailbox.net Tue Oct 21 23:11:31 2003 From: netsurfer_x1 at fastmailbox.net (David Vohs) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:33 2005 Subject: How do _you_ move equipment? What "tools" do you use? In-Reply-To: <3F953F70.5070901@internet1.net> References: <3F953F70.5070901@internet1.net> Message-ID: <20031022041132.03BBF3F231@www.fastmail.fm> Well, I use "Hyster" (right arm) & "Allis-Chalmers" (left arm). Tee, hee, hee! On Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:15:12 -0400, "Chad Fernandez" said: > Oh, I guess the car trailers that I have seen aren't as low as I was > thinking you meant. > > Chad Fernandez > Michigan, USA > > Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > >>Do you mean a tow dolly? Those don't have decks on them, just a spot > >>for each of 2 wheels. > > > > > > I would be referring to a full-length vehicle trailer. > > > > -- David Vohs netsurfer_x1@fastmailbox.net -- http://www.fastmail.fm - The professional email service From rdd at rddavis.org Tue Oct 21 23:34:30 2003 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:33 2005 Subject: Popular Science article In-Reply-To: <3F95EFA1.3070308@eoni.com> References: <3F95EFA1.3070308@eoni.com> Message-ID: <20031022042810.GD477@rhiannon.rddavis.org> While I'd like to say, gee, that was a nice article, I can only say that I'm glad that I allowed my subscription to run out several years ago. Quothe Jim Arnott, from writings of Tue, Oct 21, 2003 at 07:46:57PM -0700: > Finally, adaptists around the world continue to bang out letters, > novels, e-mail and code on revamped elderly machines. Consider British > electronics designer and ex-particle physicist Tony Duell, whose primary The author of that article could at least have had the decency to refer to Tony as Dr. Tony Duell, and not made him sound like just another PeeCee user who also happens to have a PDP-11. He doesn't just "bang out letters, novels, e-mail and code" on his computers, he learns and figures out (with and without documentation) how they work, how to make them more useful with the help of a soldering iron and custom circuitry (not by just adding some boards that he buys somewhere), etc. Without a doubt, Tony is perhaps the most valuable resource that collectors of true classic computers have, particularly when they run into hardware that's undocumented or in need of circuit modifications, etc. Furthermore... what about the other hardware hackers on this list who do all sorts of neat things with older computers, and I don't just mean PCs. There'a a huge knowledge base here in this group; people with vast arrays of experience, and experiences, with all sorts of neat and interesting older computer equipment, from mainframes to early personal computers. Look at the "new" PDP-8 kits, for example. There are people on this list with walls of racks filled with working minicomputers, that sometimes required much restoration work, which are lovingly maintained. Then, there are the collectors who do their own component-level troubleshooting and repairs. Let's see, then there are those PDP-8 and PDP-11 emulators; neat, and useful! Also, what about the mainframe preservationists? Then, there are those who've spent vast amounts of time to make archives of much useful information available to us. The list goes on. It would take a very long time to describe all of the hackish (in the true sense of the word, not the false and perjoritive sense) work and preservation efforts, etc. of all of the members of this list. Alas, that article didn't even scratch the surface. It could easily have made Sellam look much better as well. The members of this list aren't a bunch of "geeks" who spend all of their time doing mundane things with PeeCees and early microcomputers. Such activities as the aforementioned are certainly far more noble than just getting PCs from 1997 or so upgraded with new hardware so that they can run new software. Ok, end of rant. -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From vcf at siconic.com Wed Oct 22 00:29:56 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:33 2005 Subject: Popular Science article In-Reply-To: <20031022042810.GD477@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: On 22 Oct 2003, R. D. Davis wrote: > Such activities as the aforementioned are certainly far more noble > than just getting PCs from 1997 or so upgraded with new hardware so > that they can run new software. It's just the way journalism works these days. Quick sound bytes and articles of little substance that just point and say, "Look at how abnormal this is" are the order of the day. Truth be told, I don't even remember being interviewed for that article, though it certainly seems like I was. At any rate, the positive aspect is that if the article does reach folks who share the passion but are not privvy to the Festival or the CC list, then now they know, and they can find us. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From wmsmith at earthlink.net Wed Oct 22 00:48:08 2003 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:33 2005 Subject: How do _you_ move equipment? What "tools" do you use? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <003a01c39860$12cfda80$b03fcd18@WaynePC> > On Tue, 21 Oct 2003, Ian Primus wrote: > > > Well, I wasn't _intending_ to do that... I had two friends > helping me, > > and we were slowly working it down, when one person tripped and the > > other one couldn't hold on, I just happened to pretty close to in > > front of it at the time, and ended up directly in front of > it, pushing > > against it to slow it down. Everything worked out fine, but > next time > > I try to move something like that, I am going to talk more friends > > into helping me. Maybe if I bribe them with pizza... > > Yeah, get some friends with more athletic skills as well ;) > Sellam, this sounds like something you might want to consider for the next VCF. Sure, the retrocode challenge is interesting, but a "stop-the-runaway-rack-of-heavy-iron" competition would bring down the house. From wmsmith at earthlink.net Wed Oct 22 00:50:08 2003 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:33 2005 Subject: Popular Science article In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <003b01c39860$5c7d1710$b03fcd18@WaynePC> > On 22 Oct 2003, R. D. Davis wrote: > > > Such activities as the aforementioned are certainly far more noble > > than just getting PCs from 1997 or so upgraded with new hardware so > > that they can run new software. > > It's just the way journalism works these days. Quick sound > bytes and articles of little substance that just point and > say, "Look at how abnormal this is" are the order of the day. > Truth be told, I don't even remember being interviewed for > that article, though it certainly seems like I was. > > At any rate, the positive aspect is that if the article does > reach folks who share the passion but are not privvy to the > Festival or the CC list, then now they know, and they can find us. > > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage > Computer Festival Warts and all, it's about as good as could be expected. As Sellam implies, all publicity is good publicity, unless it's news of your untimely passing. From rhudson at cnonline.net Wed Oct 22 01:03:01 2003 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:33 2005 Subject: How do _you_ move equipment? What "tools" do you use? In-Reply-To: <003a01c39860$12cfda80$b03fcd18@WaynePC> Message-ID: <64EC258A-0455-11D8-939F-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> On Wednesday, October 22, 2003, at 12:48 AM, Wayne M. Smith wrote: > but a > "stop-the-runaway-rack-of-heavy-iron" competition would bring down the > house. > > literally, as the heavy-iron hits a structural member :^) (or a club member :^P ) From rdd at rddavis.org Wed Oct 22 01:17:03 2003 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:33 2005 Subject: Popular Science article In-Reply-To: <003b01c39860$5c7d1710$b03fcd18@WaynePC> References: <003b01c39860$5c7d1710$b03fcd18@WaynePC> Message-ID: <20031022061044.GF477@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Wayne M. Smith, from writings of Tue, Oct 21, 2003 at 10:50:08PM -0700: > implies, all publicity is good publicity, unless it's news of your > untimely passing. ...which is why I recommend that everyone join Procrastinator's Anonymous (http://www.rddavis.org/rdd/procrastinators.html), when they get around to it, that is. The way I look at it, those of us who are good at not getting around to doing things on time, or just get around to doing things later than we planned to, etc., and are, in general, sometimes late for other things even if we start out on time, even when we don't procrastinate, stand the best chances of being late for our own funerals. :-) "Procrastinator's Anonymous... it's more than just a way of life" -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From esharpe at uswest.net Wed Oct 22 01:23:35 2003 From: esharpe at uswest.net (ed sharpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:33 2005 Subject: How do _you_ move equipment? What "tools" do you use? References: <003a01c39860$12cfda80$b03fcd18@WaynePC> Message-ID: <001801c39865$06c52c90$0100a8c0@SONYDIGITALED> Perhaps competition of pushing the iron racks up steep inclines..... Lombard street should work well as test area. pretty scary incline... also one that was always my favorite was the hp 2100 restuffing contest.... we used to do this at Computer Exchange Inc.. when we had too much time on our hands.... you take all the cards out, place them in a wicker basket mix them up and when you hear start... you begin reassembly... if you want to liven it up you have 4 people play and all the cards go into one batch.... really messy with 4 people trying to elbow in to snatch cards.... and yes... the processor has to run when you are done! no broken parts allowed! Thanks Ed Sharpe archivist for SMECC Please check our web site at http://www.smecc.org to see other engineering fields, communications and computation stuff we buy, and by all means when in Arizona drop in and see us. address: coury house / smecc 5802 w palmaire ave glendale az 85301 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wayne M. Smith" To: "'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'" Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2003 10:48 PM Subject: RE: How do _you_ move equipment? What "tools" do you use? > > On Tue, 21 Oct 2003, Ian Primus wrote: > > > > > Well, I wasn't _intending_ to do that... I had two friends > > helping me, > > > and we were slowly working it down, when one person tripped and the > > > other one couldn't hold on, I just happened to pretty close to in > > > front of it at the time, and ended up directly in front of > > it, pushing > > > against it to slow it down. Everything worked out fine, but > > next time > > > I try to move something like that, I am going to talk more friends > > > into helping me. Maybe if I bribe them with pizza... > > > > Yeah, get some friends with more athletic skills as well ;) > > > Sellam, this sounds like something you might want to consider for the > next VCF. Sure, the retrocode challenge is interesting, but a > "stop-the-runaway-rack-of-heavy-iron" competition would bring down the > house. > > > > > > From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Wed Oct 22 04:57:02 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:33 2005 Subject: Can anyone ID this Digital board? Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Ian Primus > Sent: 22 October 2003 01:59 > To: cctech@classiccmp.org > Subject: Can anyone ID this Digital board? > > recognized it as Digital. What did this come from? My best guess would > be a VaxStation, but I don't really know. I would like to get this > machine functional (I always wanted something I could run VMS on). Can It looks like a lower-end VAXstation 3100. Compare it to the board in my Infoserver 150VXT, which is a MicroVAX 3100 model 10: http://www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk/Museum/Digital/infoserver/infoserver.php Those machines have a single on-board SCSI channel (the wide connector middle rear) but you need the proprietary cable to plug anything in. The console connector is the one nearest the thin ethernet port and halt switch - the four ports are labelled 0,1,3,2 with 2 being the DB25 full modem socket. Going from memory the 2 sockets furthest away from the back panel are for a framebuffer card and extra memory and one of the back ones next to the SCSI connector were for the 2nd SCSI card for external devices. Can't remember what the other one was for, maybe a synch comms board? Can't help with the power pinouts right now..... cheers -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From waltje at pdp11.nl Wed Oct 22 06:42:35 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:34 2005 Subject: DEC OSF/1 history? Message-ID: Hiyas, Anyone here familiar with early history of DEC's moving from Ultrix to the "new" system called OSF/1 (which itself was based on Mach) ? I found some interesting docs from that era, and some of the dev't cycles arent clear to me.. some help would be useful in understanding what went on then.. Cheers, Fred -- Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist Visit the VAXlab Project at http://www.pdp11.nl/VAXlab/ Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Sunnyvale, CA, USA From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Wed Oct 22 06:57:01 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:34 2005 Subject: DEC OSF/1 history? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Fred N. van Kempen > Sent: 22 October 2003 12:43 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: DEC OSF/1 history? > > > Hiyas, > > Anyone here familiar with early history of DEC's moving from Ultrix > to the "new" system called OSF/1 (which itself was based on Mach) ? > Nope, but I've got T1.0 here somewhere..... w From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Oct 22 08:36:11 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:34 2005 Subject: How do _you_ move equipment? What "tools" do you use? In-Reply-To: <003a01c39860$12cfda80$b03fcd18@WaynePC> References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031022093611.007d2490@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 10:48 PM 10/21/03 -0700, you wrote: >> On Tue, 21 Oct 2003, Ian Primus wrote: >> >> > Well, I wasn't _intending_ to do that... I had two friends >> helping me, >> > and we were slowly working it down, when one person tripped and the >> > other one couldn't hold on, I just happened to pretty close to in >> > front of it at the time, and ended up directly in front of >> it, pushing >> > against it to slow it down. Everything worked out fine, but >> next time >> > I try to move something like that, I am going to talk more friends >> > into helping me. Maybe if I bribe them with pizza... >> >> Yeah, get some friends with more athletic skills as well ;) >> >Sellam, this sounds like something you might want to consider for the >next VCF. Sure, the retrocode challenge is interesting, but a >"stop-the-runaway-rack-of-heavy-iron" competition would bring down the >house. > You could call it the Big VAX Attack! (Sorry, couldn't resist) Personally I'd like to see the Sudden Braking competition using the VAX in a Pinto. Joe > > > > From geneb at deltasoft.com Wed Oct 22 09:10:49 2003 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:34 2005 Subject: How do _you_ move equipment? What "tools" do you use? In-Reply-To: <003a01c39860$12cfda80$b03fcd18@WaynePC> Message-ID: > Sellam, this sounds like something you might want to consider for the > next VCF. Sure, the retrocode challenge is interesting, but a > "stop-the-runaway-rack-of-heavy-iron" competition would bring down the > house. > Rack Races! One guy stands inside the rack and two teammates push like mad. Now THAT would be hysterical. :) g. From waltje at pdp11.nl Wed Oct 22 09:16:30 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:34 2005 Subject: How do _you_ move equipment? What "tools" do you use? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 22 Oct 2003, Gene Buckle wrote: > > Sellam, this sounds like something you might want to consider for the > > next VCF. Sure, the retrocode challenge is interesting, but a > > "stop-the-runaway-rack-of-heavy-iron" competition would bring down the > > house. > > > Rack Races! One guy stands inside the rack and two teammates push like > mad. Now THAT would be hysterical. :) Not fair! Some have wheels/rollers, other dont! But, to make it more visually appealing: replace the 'guy inside' with a local cutie. More more fun to look at.... Cheers, Fred -- Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist Visit the VAXlab Project at http://www.pdp11.nl/VAXlab/ Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Sunnyvale, CA, USA From bpope at wordstock.com Wed Oct 22 09:32:27 2003 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:34 2005 Subject: How do _you_ move equipment? What "tools" do you use? In-Reply-To: from "Fred N. van Kempen" at Oct 22, 03 04:16:30 pm Message-ID: <200310221432.KAA23324@wordstock.com> And thusly Fred N. van Kempen spake: > > On Wed, 22 Oct 2003, Gene Buckle wrote: > > > > Sellam, this sounds like something you might want to consider for the > > > next VCF. Sure, the retrocode challenge is interesting, but a > > > "stop-the-runaway-rack-of-heavy-iron" competition would bring down the > > > house. > > > > > Rack Races! One guy stands inside the rack and two teammates push like > > mad. Now THAT would be hysterical. :) > > Not fair! Some have wheels/rollers, other dont! > > But, to make it more visually appealing: replace the 'guy inside' > with a local cutie. More more fun to look at.... > "Wow what a rack!" will be heard throughout.... Cheers, Bryan From cb at mythtech.net Wed Oct 22 10:31:48 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:34 2005 Subject: AT&T General Purpose Sychronous AT/Enhanced card Message-ID: I have an AT&T GPSC-AT/E serial card here if anyone wants it. Its a 12 inch, 16 bit ISA card with a single DB-25 Male port on the back. It was pulled a while back from an AT&T computer. No idea if it works or not. The computer did before it was stripped down, so my guess is the card is fine. I don't really know anything about it, but it looks like it could be a decent serial card, and since so many of you use serial terminals, I thought maybe someone would like it. Just cover postage and its yours. -chris w + p = -? From teoz at neo.rr.com Wed Oct 22 10:39:58 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:34 2005 Subject: Dust covers Message-ID: <002601c398b2$c04bce60$3d7ca418@neo.rr.com> What is the best material for making dusk covers for computers? I want to make covers for my 8/16 bit computers like the Amiga 500/1200 Atari 1040ST, C64c, C128, Tandy 1000HX, etc. From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Wed Oct 22 10:45:15 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:34 2005 Subject: Digital software, books and misc hardware clearout :( Message-ID: Hi folks, Continued redundancy is forcing me to start sorting and selling most of my rather considerable DEC CD collection that goes back to almost the beginning of the CDDS service in the early 1990s and features VAX/VMS, Alpha VMS, Ultrix VAX, Ultrix MIPS and OSF/1 stroke DEC Unix software product CDs. They're all complete sets, and rather than bung 'em on epay I'll give you all the chance to have first go. This is just a toe-in-the-water bijou list-ette to gauge interest. I've also listed my spare hardware. There are 2 ways to do this I think, either I give you all a week to mail me off-list with your offers and best one gets it or I stick it all on the Vintage Computer Marketplace. Let me know if you need pictures of any of it. I'll ship anywhere as long as you pay for it :o) A brief list of CDs: OpenVMS Alpha V6.2 in blue distro box with manuals, never been used OpenVMS VAX V7.0 in blue distro box etc OpenVMS Alpha V7.0 in blue distro box etc (complete with firmware CD) DEC OSF/1 Layered Product set December '94 (nearly on topic :o) OpenVMS CDDS March 1995, 2 boxes containing 12 product CDs and 4 documentation CDs (many many many more CDDS box sets are there somewhere, like 20 or 30+) Books (all Digital Press): Terminals and Printers handbook 1983-84 Microcomputer Processors 1978-79 Microcomputer Interfaces handbook 1980 Processor Handbook PDP 11/04/24/34a/44/70 1981 (2 off) PDP-11 Micro PDP-11 handbook 1983-84 PDP-11 Microcomputer Interfaces handbook 1983-1984 Microcomputer Products Handbook 1985 Terminals and Communications handbook 1981-82 Microcomputers and Memories 1982 Introduction to Local Area Networks 1982 Misc hardware/software: Unopened DECnet/SNA ST Gateway software pack QA-S01AA-H5 (2 off) Unused DNSES Synchronous comms board for AXP 3000 series, EISA. Alphastation 600 motherboard and CPU MicroVAX 3100-40 motherboard Alpha 3000-400 motherboard and CPU MicroVAX 3100 model 40 and 80 memory SIMMs Alpha 3000-400 complete with (I think) 64mb memory, PMAGB graphics. VAXstation 3100 M48, unknown condition for now. MicroVAX 2000, slight case damage A stack of QBUS cards for VAX/PDP, all untested. Obviously the latter 3 are rather heavy :) Let me know! cheers -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From cb at mythtech.net Wed Oct 22 11:01:54 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:34 2005 Subject: ID this card: MPPi Ltd Message-ID: I found a rather old looking card. It appears to be an 8 bit ISA card (or at least has that size/style looking connector). The only writing on it is MPPi Ltd. There are no connectors on it, not even a case dust plate for filling a blank slot (so they must have planned on you leaving the slot cover in place when this was inserted, or it isn't an ISA card). There are 4 chip sockets on it, with the 2nd of the 4 containing an EPROM chip (M5L2764K). Remaining chips appear to be maybe support chips (SN74L series chips). There is a small bank of 4 dip switches, and two clusters of jumper poles (no jumpers installed, poles are labeled A thru G). Anyone have any clue what this card is? I'm wondering if maybe it is an early security dongle. Maybe this was done as an internal card rather than an external parallel or serial block. A pic of the card is at -chris w + p = -? From dwight.elvey at amd.com Wed Oct 22 11:35:14 2003 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:34 2005 Subject: ID this card: MPPi Ltd Message-ID: <200310221635.JAA21528@clulw009.amd.com> Hi It looks like a ROM card. I'd check the pinouts before plugging it into a PC. Many cards like these were for various proprietary busses and have the power leads in different locations. If it is for a PC, trace down the address leads from the edge connector. These will usually go to some kind of comparitor ( ls688 or similar ). You should be able to figure where to look for it in the address of the PC. You can then use some simple code to transfer the EPROM to a disk file. Still, doesn't look like a PC card so be careful about plugging it in until you've traced a few leads. Dwight >From: chris > >I found a rather old looking card. It appears to be an 8 bit ISA card (or >at least has that size/style looking connector). > >The only writing on it is MPPi Ltd. There are no connectors on it, not >even a case dust plate for filling a blank slot (so they must have >planned on you leaving the slot cover in place when this was inserted, or >it isn't an ISA card). > >There are 4 chip sockets on it, with the 2nd of the 4 containing an EPROM >chip (M5L2764K). Remaining chips appear to be maybe support chips (SN74L >series chips). > >There is a small bank of 4 dip switches, and two clusters of jumper poles >(no jumpers installed, poles are labeled A thru G). > > >Anyone have any clue what this card is? I'm wondering if maybe it is an >early security dongle. Maybe this was done as an internal card rather >than an external parallel or serial block. > >A pic of the card is at > >-chris > > >w + p = -? > > > From dzubint at vcn.bc.ca Wed Oct 22 11:46:36 2003 From: dzubint at vcn.bc.ca (Thomas Dzubin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:34 2005 Subject: HP3000 users have a "wake" on Oct 31 2003 Message-ID: Story web page: http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/61/33536.html "Many tears were shed when HP announced that the e3000 would meet its maker at the end of this month. But loyal fans of the product will meet on Oct. 31 at bars and restaurants around the globe to put down several cold ones and discuss their good times with the server. Take a trip over the HP wake Web site to see your nearest venue." "Introduced in 1972, the HP 3000 was loved and adored as being one of the most solid systems around. Running the MPE operating system, HP 3000s chugged along for three decades, but in 2001 HP said it would stop sales and end support for the product in 2006." The "HP 3000 Wake web site" is listed as http://207.21.244.161/hpwake/ (I hate URLs with IP numbers) "For those who want to reminisce about the good old before getting blotto, there is a nice history of the HP 3000 " http://www.robelle.com/library/smugbook/classic.html From vcf at siconic.com Wed Oct 22 12:01:46 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:34 2005 Subject: How do _you_ move equipment? What "tools" do you use? In-Reply-To: <003a01c39860$12cfda80$b03fcd18@WaynePC> Message-ID: On Tue, 21 Oct 2003, Wayne M. Smith wrote: > Sellam, this sounds like something you might want to consider for the > next VCF. Sure, the retrocode challenge is interesting, but a > "stop-the-runaway-rack-of-heavy-iron" competition would bring down the > house. I love the idea but I think the insurance liability would be too expensive :) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From lcourtney at mvista.com Wed Oct 22 11:58:31 2003 From: lcourtney at mvista.com (Lee Courtney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:34 2005 Subject: How do _you_ move equipment? What "tools" do you use? In-Reply-To: <003a01c39860$12cfda80$b03fcd18@WaynePC> Message-ID: <004701c398bd$b9aadf50$b10a010a@lcourtney22k> There was an episode of VCF "Fear Factor" unloading the KL-10 from a truck at the Museum's loading dock thr first day. Lee Courtney > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Wayne M. Smith > Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2003 10:48 PM > To: 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts' > Subject: RE: How do _you_ move equipment? What "tools" do you use? > > > > On Tue, 21 Oct 2003, Ian Primus wrote: > > > > > Well, I wasn't _intending_ to do that... I had two friends > > helping me, > > > and we were slowly working it down, when one person > tripped and the > > > other one couldn't hold on, I just happened to pretty close to in > > > front of it at the time, and ended up directly in front of > > it, pushing > > > against it to slow it down. Everything worked out fine, but > > next time > > > I try to move something like that, I am going to talk > more friends > > > into helping me. Maybe if I bribe them with pizza... > > > > Yeah, get some friends with more athletic skills as well ;) > > > Sellam, this sounds like something you might want to consider for the > next VCF. Sure, the retrocode challenge is interesting, but a > "stop-the-runaway-rack-of-heavy-iron" competition would bring down the > house. > > > > > From jpl15 at panix.com Wed Oct 22 12:16:34 2003 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:34 2005 Subject: 73 magazine quits Message-ID: September was the last issue of '73' magazine - published by Wayne Green - who began (and lost) Byte, then started Kilobaud.. Not that everyone always agreed with Wayne - but it's sad to see a Publication cease after so many years... C'est la Vie, I guess... Cheers John KB6SCO From ohh at drizzle.com Wed Oct 22 13:15:28 2003 From: ohh at drizzle.com (O. Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:34 2005 Subject: TI 99/4a Looking For A Good Home In-Reply-To: <003301c398b8$aa7059c0$0300a8c0@Riverfalls807> Message-ID: Hey, all: I've met another generous person. :) Anyone after a TI 99/4a? I just received the following e-mail, with permission to forward: > I have recently retired and relocated to the Puget Sound area. I do > have a COMPLETE Texas Instruments TI 99/4a system. Yes, SYSTEM. As we > have settled in smaller quarters, I presently have no place for this > system and no immediate plans for its future. I am willing to donate > this system to a good home. If there is interest on your part, please > e-mail and I will gladly send specifications and software list. It is > presently in seven or eight boxes and is located in the south King > County area (Des Moines, WA (Redondo Beach)). Anyone in or handy to Seattle, Washington can presumably pick this system up directly from the owner. If someone further away would like it, you'll have to sound him out about how willing he is to ship elsewhere. I'm hoping he may be willing to as long as you pay the expenses, but I _don't know_ this; so, if you ask, be polite. :) Anyway, if you're interested you can e-mail Thomas Roughton at , with the appropriate anti-spam alterations. -O.- From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Oct 22 13:18:56 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:34 2005 Subject: ID this card: MPPi Ltd In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031022141856.007993e0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> No idea what it's for but I did a Google search and got a lot of hits about a Music-On-Hold modules perhaps it's part of an automated telephone system. It has holes on the RH edge. They might for a bolt on slot cover. You could dump the ROM and see what what you can find in the listings. Joe At 12:01 PM 10/22/03 -0400, you wrote: >I found a rather old looking card. It appears to be an 8 bit ISA card (or >at least has that size/style looking connector). > >The only writing on it is MPPi Ltd. There are no connectors on it, not >even a case dust plate for filling a blank slot (so they must have >planned on you leaving the slot cover in place when this was inserted, or >it isn't an ISA card). > >There are 4 chip sockets on it, with the 2nd of the 4 containing an EPROM >chip (M5L2764K). Remaining chips appear to be maybe support chips (SN74L >series chips). > >There is a small bank of 4 dip switches, and two clusters of jumper poles >(no jumpers installed, poles are labeled A thru G). > > >Anyone have any clue what this card is? I'm wondering if maybe it is an >early security dongle. Maybe this was done as an internal card rather >than an external parallel or serial block. > >A pic of the card is at > >-chris > > >w + p = -? > > > From cb at mythtech.net Wed Oct 22 13:30:26 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:34 2005 Subject: Assorted cards available Message-ID: Anyone want an UltraStore SCSI/Floppy controller card for EISA bus? Its got an internal 50 pin SCSI and floppy connectors, and an external 50 pin high density SCSI connector. I also have some Intel AboveBoard ram expansion cards. Some are AT some are 286, all have at least their main banks filled, some have a daughter card attached that is also filled. And I have some PS/2 ram expansion cards (two that use 72 pin simms, one that uses 30 pin simms). And I have some ram expansion cards similar to the AboveBoard, but that have serial ports on the card as well. And I've got some FDD controller cards. Has an old card edge connector on it, so I'm guessing it predates 3.5" drives. Don't know what drives they work with, but I'm assuming 360k 5.25 and maybe HD 5.25 as well... I have 3 of them (and one cable). And some Winchester Drive controller cards And some EGA video cards Any or all of the above are available, just cover shipping. -chris w + p = -? From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Oct 22 13:28:24 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:34 2005 Subject: ID this card: MPPi Ltd In-Reply-To: <200310221635.JAA21528@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031022142824.007ba100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 09:35 AM 10/22/03 -0700, you wrote: >Hi > It looks like a ROM card. I'd check the pinouts before >plugging it into a PC. Many cards like these were for >various proprietary busses and have the power leads in >different locations. > If it is for a PC, trace down the address leads from the >edge connector. These will usually go to some kind of >comparitor ( ls688 or similar ). You should be able to >figure where to look for it in the address of the PC. >You can then use some simple code to transfer the EPROM >to a disk file. No need to write code. Use Checkit and it will show the ROM address and the first 15 or so bytes on data in it. Once you know the address, you can use Debug to read it and display it or send it to a file. > Still, doesn't look like a PC card so be careful about >plugging it in until you've traced a few leads. Definitely! Joe >Dwight > > >>From: chris >> >>I found a rather old looking card. It appears to be an 8 bit ISA card (or >>at least has that size/style looking connector). >> >>The only writing on it is MPPi Ltd. There are no connectors on it, not >>even a case dust plate for filling a blank slot (so they must have >>planned on you leaving the slot cover in place when this was inserted, or >>it isn't an ISA card). >> >>There are 4 chip sockets on it, with the 2nd of the 4 containing an EPROM >>chip (M5L2764K). Remaining chips appear to be maybe support chips (SN74L >>series chips). >> >>There is a small bank of 4 dip switches, and two clusters of jumper poles >>(no jumpers installed, poles are labeled A thru G). >> >> >>Anyone have any clue what this card is? I'm wondering if maybe it is an >>early security dongle. Maybe this was done as an internal card rather >>than an external parallel or serial block. >> >>A pic of the card is at >> >>-chris >> >> >>w + p = -? >> >> >> > > > > From vcf at siconic.com Wed Oct 22 14:14:17 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:34 2005 Subject: 73 magazine quits In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 22 Oct 2003, John Lawson wrote: > Not that everyone always agreed with Wayne - but it's sad to see a > Publication cease after so many years... Oh, he's a swell guy. I'm sure he didn't really mean it when at the first VCF East he came up right after Eldon Hall, the guy who designed the Apollo Guidance Computer for the Moon Mission, and proceeded to sketch out his evidence debunking the US moon landing. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From meltie at meltie.com Wed Oct 22 14:11:35 2003 From: meltie at meltie.com (Alex White) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:34 2005 Subject: Can anyone ID this Digital board? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200310222011.35206.meltie@meltie.com> On Wednesday 22 Oct 2003 10:57 am, Witchy wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Ian Primus > > Sent: 22 October 2003 01:59 > > To: cctech@classiccmp.org > > Subject: Can anyone ID this Digital board? > > > > recognized it as Digital. What did this come from? My best guess would > > be a VaxStation, but I don't really know. I would like to get this > > machine functional (I always wanted something I could run VMS on). Can > > It looks like a lower-end VAXstation 3100. Compare it to the board in my > Infoserver 150VXT, which is a MicroVAX 3100 model 10: > > http://www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk/Museum/Digital/infoserver/infoserver.ph Witchy's post reminded me of a question i've had for a while now... how feasable is it to covert a Microvax with a KA41-A CPU (as reported by the Microvax firmware) to an Infoserver by just swapping ROMs (with an image from Witchy?)? cheers alex/melt From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Oct 22 14:03:34 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:34 2005 Subject: Popular Science article In-Reply-To: <20031022042810.GD477@rhiannon.rddavis.org> from "R. D. Davis" at Oct 22, 3 00:28:10 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3117 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20031022/114cfb92/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Oct 22 14:12:23 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:34 2005 Subject: Assorted cards available In-Reply-To: from "chris" at Oct 22, 3 02:30:26 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 590 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20031022/b164220d/attachment.ksh From dittman at dittman.net Wed Oct 22 14:50:50 2003 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:34 2005 Subject: Can anyone ID this Digital board? In-Reply-To: <200310222011.35206.meltie@meltie.com> from "Alex White" at Oct 22, 2003 08:11:35 PM Message-ID: <20031022195050.DEAD6801C@narnia.int.dittman.net> > Witchy's post reminded me of a question i've had for a while now... how > feasable is it to covert a Microvax with a KA41-A CPU (as reported by the > Microvax firmware) to an Infoserver by just swapping ROMs (with an image > from Witchy?)? It may work. The only way to be sure is to try it and see. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net From dwoyciesjes at comcast.net Wed Oct 22 14:51:19 2003 From: dwoyciesjes at comcast.net (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:34 2005 Subject: Popular Science article References: Message-ID: <3F96DFB7.A59B04AD@comcast.net> Tony Duell wrote: > > [1] One time when I was trying to do some major hackery, I got a > phonecall from a telemarketer (I dislike such 'people' of course'. He > asked for 'Mr Duell' I pointed out there was no Mr Duell here, but > there was a Dr Duell. So he asked for Dr Duell. My reply was 'OK, would > you like a physical chemist, an organic chemist, or a particle physicist' > :-) :-) (Both my parents have Ph.Ds in chemistry...) > And do you get your sick sense of humor from them too? -- --- Dave Woyciesjes --- ICQ# 905818 From bpope at wordstock.com Wed Oct 22 14:46:33 2003 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:34 2005 Subject: 73 magazine quits In-Reply-To: from "Vintage Computer Festival" at Oct 22, 03 12:14:17 pm Message-ID: <200310221946.PAA10976@wordstock.com> And thusly Vintage Computer Festival spake: > > On Wed, 22 Oct 2003, John Lawson wrote: > > > Not that everyone always agreed with Wayne - but it's sad to see a > > Publication cease after so many years... > > Oh, he's a swell guy. I'm sure he didn't really mean it when at the first > VCF East he came up right after Eldon Hall, the guy who designed the > Apollo Guidance Computer for the Moon Mission, and proceeded to sketch out > his evidence debunking the US moon landing. > He even had a booklet! ;) We should have taken a picture of the audience when he started doing that - I betcha everybody had a shocked look on their faces with their mouths wide open. When he stayed on topic he was interesting, but when he went off... he really went off! Cheers, Bryan From jpl15 at panix.com Wed Oct 22 15:24:19 2003 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:34 2005 Subject: Popular Science article In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Re: Being 'published'. IN previous lives, I have been interviewed dozens of times for print and video media. not once - NOT ONE TIME - has the entire article been 100% factual and/or accurate. They *always* have gotten something wrong, misquoted, fucked up - whatever. A good example is when I moved to India to work in the film business there. The Hindu - the largest-circulation paper in the country - like the NY Times or Times of London - came to talk to me about MGM and my own studio. They wanted pictures, which I had several of. By mistake, a shot of my PDP11 collection was in there too, and the reporter and photog were marvelling at what Yanks decorate their living rooms with. ;} Well, they ran the story about my studio, and of course, printed the pic of my racks of PDP11s. (I didn't know they even had it, nor did I get it back!!) I got email and phone calls for six months after that, mostly from professionals wanting to know A) what kind of audio gear was all that, or B) Just what kind of fools do you take us for - that's not a bloody Studio - I still have the article that I clipped - it's much the same picture (from a different angle) as the one in Christine Finn's book. Cheers John From dwoyciesjes at comcast.net Wed Oct 22 15:41:58 2003 From: dwoyciesjes at comcast.net (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:34 2005 Subject: Popular Science article References: <3F96DFB7.A59B04AD@comcast.net> Message-ID: <3F96EB96.A21B8E59@comcast.net> David Woyciesjes wrote: > > Tony Duell wrote: > > > > [1] One time when I was trying to do some major hackery, I got a > > phonecall from a telemarketer (I dislike such 'people' of course'. He > > asked for 'Mr Duell' I pointed out there was no Mr Duell here, but > > there was a Dr Duell. So he asked for Dr Duell. My reply was 'OK, would > > you like a physical chemist, an organic chemist, or a particle physicist' > > :-) :-) (Both my parents have Ph.Ds in chemistry...) > > > > And do you get your sick sense of humor from them too? > > -- Ya know, that line didn't come out right, did it? Either way, it was a funny story... -- --- Dave Woyciesjes --- ICQ# 905818 From gkicomputers at yahoo.com Wed Oct 22 16:30:41 2003 From: gkicomputers at yahoo.com (steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:34 2005 Subject: Popular Science article In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20031022213041.86441.qmail@web12401.mail.yahoo.com> --- Tony Duell wrote: but I don't > like being called 'Mr Duell' [1] since it's > technically incorrect. 'Tony' is > fine... > Hmm, I understand you may have a personal preference but what is technically incorrect with Mr Duell? Isn't the correct etiquette Dr. in professional settings and Mr. in social settings? steve __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com From dwight.elvey at amd.com Wed Oct 22 16:43:45 2003 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:34 2005 Subject: Popular Science article Message-ID: <200310222143.OAA21704@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "John Lawson" > > > Re: Being 'published'. > > IN previous lives, I have been interviewed dozens of times for print >and video media. not once - NOT ONE TIME - has the entire article been >100% factual and/or accurate. They *always* have gotten something wrong, >misquoted, fucked up - whatever. > ---snip--- Hi I refuse to talk to reporters. I've had similar experiences and just don't find any positive value in talking to them. If they took the time to pass their articles by the people they were writing about to check accuracy, they might get me to try. Since they don't, I don't. Dwight From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Oct 22 16:45:53 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:34 2005 Subject: FA: more DEC cards Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031022174553.0081c100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Just finished listing a pile of DEC cards on E-bay. See Joe From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Wed Oct 22 16:53:47 2003 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:34 2005 Subject: 73 magazine quits References: Message-ID: <3F96FC6B.5020700@jetnet.ab.ca> John Lawson wrote: > > > September was the last issue of '73' magazine - published by Wayne Green > - who began (and lost) Byte, then started Kilobaud.. > Sigh! This not say much for the healty state of Short Wave RADIO. Darn too, I just bought a A Zenith Trans-oceanic Radio too, with lots of tubes too :) I wonder what will happen when all the New-old stock tubes dry up to ham radio? From arcarlini at iee.org Wed Oct 22 17:16:51 2003 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:34 2005 Subject: Can anyone ID this Digital board? In-Reply-To: <20031022195050.DEAD6801C@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <001001c398ea$31a03ce0$5b01a8c0@athlon> There is a way of booting the normal infoserver image on a MicroVAX 3100. I just don't happen to remember it and noone else has piped up with the details. It's pretty simple, just set the boot flags to the correct magic value and off you go. There was talk of removing this ability from the software if word ever got out, but I don't think that ever happened. I'm surprised that noone has ever dug around and released this magic, especially now that the Infoserver is no longer sold. Swapping the ROMs on a KA41 will almost certainly be enough to make it work with no magic required. I'm reasonably sure that the initial Infoserver was basically a KA41-A with possibly some unnecessary bits removed. They may even have used culled chips (e.g. floating point not needed, so don't reject those chips, just put them in the InfoServer line ... it may even have been just don't fit the separate FPU, I don't remember how things were arranged in the CVAX days). Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From wh.sudbrink at verizon.net Wed Oct 22 17:23:28 2003 From: wh.sudbrink at verizon.net (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:34 2005 Subject: 73 magazine quits In-Reply-To: <200310221946.PAA10976@wordstock.com> Message-ID: >> > Not that everyone always agreed with Wayne - but it's sad to see a >> > Publication cease after so many years... >> >> Oh, he's a swell guy. I'm sure he didn't really mean it when at the first >> VCF East he came up right after Eldon Hall, the guy who designed the >> Apollo Guidance Computer for the Moon Mission, and proceeded to sketch out >> his evidence debunking the US moon landing. >> > >He even had a booklet! ;) We should have taken a picture of the audience >when he started doing that - I betcha everybody had a shocked look on >their faces with their mouths wide open. > >When he stayed on topic he was interesting, but when he went off... he >really went off! A couple of gates short of a half-adder? From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Wed Oct 22 18:20:14 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:34 2005 Subject: Can anyone ID this Digital board? In-Reply-To: <001001c398ea$31a03ce0$5b01a8c0@athlon> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Antonio Carlini > Sent: 22 October 2003 23:17 > To: 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts' > Subject: RE: Can anyone ID this Digital board? > > > There is a way of booting the normal infoserver image on > a MicroVAX 3100. I just don't happen to remember it and > noone else has piped up with the details. It's pretty > simple, just set the boot flags to the correct magic > value and off you go. There was talk of removing this Tell me that now just as I've put my Infoserver back into the storage area :o) Actually, you've just reminded me of a question I need to ask everyone so I'll do it in a new topic. cheers -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From oldcomp at cox.net Wed Oct 22 18:36:44 2003 From: oldcomp at cox.net (Bryan Blackburn) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:34 2005 Subject: Help request: Impact printer by the digital group Message-ID: <3F97148C.4050004@cox.net> Hi all, I am in the process of restoring a 96 column impact printer sold by the digital group around 1977. (See my progress at: http://members.cox.net/oldcomp3/dgp/dgprinter.shtml) The first question I have is about the print head: Does anyone have any idea what, if anything, is the proper lubricant for a print head? What little lubricant I found on the heads felt like it might be a silicone grease of some kind. I have no idea if this was original lubricant or not. Labels I have found on other printers warn against oiling the print head, stating that the heads are lifetime oiled at time of manufacture. Next, I wonder if anyone on the list might have any information on the printer itself, which appears to have been manufactured by Practical Automation Inc., of Shelton Conn., or on the digital group electronics. Any ideas? -Bryan From jwstephens at msm.umr.edu Wed Oct 22 18:49:11 2003 From: jwstephens at msm.umr.edu (jim) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:34 2005 Subject: Help request: Impact printer by the digital group References: <3F97148C.4050004@cox.net> Message-ID: <3F971777.DA742B81@msm.umr.edu> excellent job in restoring this printer! I would have two suggestions for you. for lubricant use a very fine graphite material. If you need to, use tungsten wire for the print hammer pins themselves. Also replacements would not rust. Jim Bryan Blackburn wrote: From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Oct 22 21:14:26 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:34 2005 Subject: Help request: Impact printer by the digital group In-Reply-To: <3F971777.DA742B81@msm.umr.edu> References: <3F97148C.4050004@cox.net> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031022221426.007f8e00@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 04:49 PM 10/22/03 -0700, you wrote: >excellent job in restoring this printer! > >I would have two suggestions for you. > >for lubricant use a very fine graphite material. I've had great luck using liquid graphite lock lubricant. The solvent evaporates and leaves only the graphite. The graphite particles in the liquid lube are much finer than those used in the powered stuff. The powdered stuff is useless for everything that I've ever tested it for, including lubricating locks! There several good things about the liquid graphite. First, it doesn't cause drag the way that liquid lubes (oil, grease) do. And since it's dry it doesn't attract and hold dirt and sand (a real problem here in Florida!). And in a case such as your's, it will tolerate high temperatures. The biggest problem is that no one seems to make or sell it any more! I had a can of it but it developed a leak and all leaked away. When I tried to buy more I was surprised to find that no one carried it and I was told that no one still made it. I finally found an old locksmith that can me a can of the stuff. Now I guard it with my life! A LITTLE bit of this stuff goes a long ways. Use it EXTREMELY sparingly. > >If you need to, use tungsten wire for the print >hammer pins themselves. Also replacements would >not rust. If you can't find the right size wire, try piano wire (from a hobby shop) or drill rod (industrial suppliers). Drill rod is annealed (soft) but it can easily be hardened after you cut it to length. Drill rod is available in MANY diameters and it's size is very uniform and accurate. IIIRC it's available in both oil-hardening and water-hardening types. Joe > >Jim > >Bryan Blackburn wrote: > > From vcf at siconic.com Wed Oct 22 22:08:15 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:34 2005 Subject: Popular Science article In-Reply-To: <200310222143.OAA21704@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 22 Oct 2003, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > I refuse to talk to reporters. I've had similar experiences > and just don't find any positive value in talking to them. > If they took the time to pass their articles by the people > they were writing about to check accuracy, they might get > me to try. Since they don't, I don't. The best experience I ever had was with the Los Angeles Times Magazine. Not only was the reporter a consumate professional (it was skater Tony Hawk's brother!), but he called later to verify every fact he was going to report on, then a staffer at the LA Times Magazine called me to also double-check every fact before going to print. And this was for a 300 or so word article! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Wed Oct 22 22:09:35 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:34 2005 Subject: 73 magazine quits In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 22 Oct 2003, Bill Sudbrink wrote: > >When he stayed on topic he was interesting, but when he went off... he > >really went off! > > A couple of gates short of a half-adder? More like a tube short of a Zenith Trans-Oceanic. As in a fucking nut case. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From dwoyciesjes at comcast.net Thu Oct 23 07:59:16 2003 From: dwoyciesjes at comcast.net (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:34 2005 Subject: Help request: Impact printer by the digital group References: <3F97148C.4050004@cox.net> Message-ID: <3F97D0A4.FA8DF1D4@comcast.net> Bryan Blackburn wrote: > > Hi all, > > I am in the process of restoring a 96 column impact printer sold by the > digital group around 1977. (See my progress at: > http://members.cox.net/oldcomp3/dgp/dgprinter.shtml) > > The first question I have is about the print head: Does anyone have any > idea what, if anything, is the proper lubricant for a print head? What > little lubricant I found on the heads felt like it might be a silicone > grease of some kind. I have no idea if this was original lubricant or > not. Labels I have found on other printers warn against oiling the print > head, stating that the heads are lifetime oiled at time of manufacture. > > Next, I wonder if anyone on the list might have any information on the > printer itself, which appears to have been manufactured by Practical > Automation Inc., of Shelton Conn., or on the digital group electronics. > > Any ideas? > > -Bryan Shelton? That's in my neck of the woods... -- --- Dave Woyciesjes --- ICQ# 905818 From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Oct 23 09:52:44 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:34 2005 Subject: Any Scelbi collectors out there? Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031023105244.007e5280@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> The title says it all. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Oct 23 09:51:38 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:34 2005 Subject: Al K's site? Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031023105138.007e4c20@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Anybody know what's wrong with Al Kossow's website (www.spies.com/aek/)? It's been down for a couple of days now. Joe From dwoyciesjes at comcast.net Thu Oct 23 10:02:19 2003 From: dwoyciesjes at comcast.net (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:34 2005 Subject: Computer Recycler in CT... Message-ID: <3F97ED7B.37A35B54@comcast.net> In looking for a place to dispose of my unwanted computers, I ran across this company... Computer Recycling & Refining 27 Ciro Road North Branford, Connecticut 06471 Phone: (203) 488-0535 Contact: A.J. LaCroix When I was talking to him, he mentioned he does get some old computers. I told him about the Rhode Island computer museum, the collectors on this list, and the website to join the list. He talked about keeping some old computers in the back. Hopefully he will join, and maybe offer some goodies for sale? Or maybe donate to the museum? Usual cautions apply, I don't really know them, found thier number and talked to him just today... -- --- Dave Woyciesjes --- ICQ# 905818 From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Oct 23 14:14:07 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:34 2005 Subject: Help request: Impact printer by the digital group In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20031022221426.007f8e00@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> from "Joe" at Oct 22, 3 10:14:26 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 951 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20031023/4bd6012c/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Oct 23 14:14:52 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:34 2005 Subject: 73 magazine quits In-Reply-To: from "Vintage Computer Festival" at Oct 22, 3 08:09:35 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 93 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20031023/44353592/attachment.ksh From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Oct 23 15:15:23 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:35 2005 Subject: Help request: Impact printer by the digital group In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.32.20031022221426.007f8e00@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031023161523.007de820@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 08:14 PM 10/23/03 +0100, you wrote: >> I've had great luck using liquid graphite lock lubricant. The solvent >> evaporates and leaves only the graphite. The graphite particles in the > >Have you tried 'dry film lubricant' No, I haven't but I should. It would probably work as well. I just don't like the dry powdered graphite. It's a joke as far as I'm concerned. (or at least that's what it's called >over here, Electrolube (used to?) make it). It's similar, but with fine >PTFE particles. The carrier evapourates (it's not really a solvent, >neither for graphite or PTFE), and leaves PTFE on the surface. Like the >'liquid graphite', the result is non-sticky, doesn't attract dust, and >seems to be good for many light machine parts. > >> >If you need to, use tungsten wire for the print >> >hammer pins themselves. Also replacements would >> >not rust. >> >> If you can't find the right size wire, try piano wire (from a hobby >> shop) or drill rod (industrial suppliers). Drill rod is annealed (soft) but > >I beleive the original pins were tungsten wire in some printheads. The >stuff certainly behaves like tungsten... I wouldn't be surprised. Tungstan has a lot of properties that would make it usefull in print heads; very hard so less wear, heavy weight for inertia, and it withstands high tempertures well. But I'll be the manufacturers hate it, it's hard to machine and expensive. Joe > >-tony > > From geoffr at zipcon.net Thu Oct 23 15:33:29 2003 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:35 2005 Subject: TRS-80 model 4 serial question. In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.32.20031022221426.007f8e00@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.2.20031023133125.049869d0@mail.zipcon.net> I'm installing a serial board into my model 4, there is a 4-pin connector on it, right next to the 20 pin cable that goes from the cpu board to the serial board, what connects to the 4-pin connector... AND does anyone have a PDF of the serial installation instructions? and/ or a PDF of the service manual for the model 4? From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Oct 23 16:00:59 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:35 2005 Subject: FA: MORE DEC stuff, Motorola HDS-200 pods, AT&T manuals Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031023170059.007d8630@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I've been busy today. Take a look, . I will be posting more tomorrow. Keep checking. Thanks. Joe From spc at conman.org Thu Oct 23 16:43:37 2003 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:35 2005 Subject: Al K's site? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20031023105138.007e4c20@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> from "Joe" at Oct 23, 2003 10:51:38 AM Message-ID: <20031023214337.C6C061416D8B@swift.conman.org> It was thus said that the Great Joe once stated: > > Anybody know what's wrong with Al Kossow's website (www.spies.com/aek/)? > It's been down for a couple of days now. I follow the journal of one of the admins of spies.com (http://www.blackbook.org/ which can't be accessed since spies.com is down) and she mentioned that the server in question has had some disk problems over the past few days, along with the Linux kernel crashing (which it almost never does unless 1) you're running the latest bleeding edge development kernel, 2) it's a known bad stable version (2.4.20 is one to really avoid) or 3) the hardware is bad). -spc (That's the latest I have ... ) From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Thu Oct 23 17:52:42 2003 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:35 2005 Subject: 73 magazine quits-- vintage radios References: Message-ID: <3F985BBA.1080908@jetnet.ab.ca> Tony Duell wrote: >>More like a tube short of a Zenith Trans-Oceanic. > > > A 1L6 short of a Trans-Oceanic? > > -tony > > Nope, the 1L6 works fine, want to replace the caps and rebuild the power supply ( The set is older than I am ) and get real DOC's. The problem seems to be with the auto-magic gain control and or the selenium rectifier as it plays for about 10 seconds and then it goes quiet. Ben. From dwight.elvey at amd.com Thu Oct 23 18:23:15 2003 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:35 2005 Subject: 73 magazine quits Message-ID: <200310232323.QAA22779@clulw009.amd.com> >From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk > >> More like a tube short of a Zenith Trans-Oceanic. > >A 1L6 short of a Trans-Oceanic? > >-tony > Hi Tony You would have a few extra 1L6's lying around. I could always us a spare. I'm also looking for XV199's and UV199's. Dwight From kenziem at sympatico.ca Thu Oct 23 18:25:35 2003 From: kenziem at sympatico.ca (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:35 2005 Subject: Dealing with the Press Message-ID: <200310231925.35317.kenziem@sympatico.ca> The local paper has asked for an interview about my collection. They're asking the usual why and how much is it worth. Any words of caution when dealing with the press? Anything that I should make a point to emphasize? mike -- Ottawa, Canada Collector of vintage computers http://www.ncf.ca/~ba600 From vaxzilla at jarai.org Thu Oct 23 19:15:54 2003 From: vaxzilla at jarai.org (Brian Chase) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:35 2005 Subject: Al K's site? In-Reply-To: <20031023214337.C6C061416D8B@swift.conman.org> References: <20031023214337.C6C061416D8B@swift.conman.org> Message-ID: On Thu, 23 Oct 2003, Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner wrote: > It was thus said that the Great Joe once stated: > > Anybody know what's wrong with Al Kossow's website (www.spies.com/aek/)? > > It's been down for a couple of days now. > > I follow the journal of one of the admins of spies.com > (http://www.blackbook.org/ which can't be accessed since spies.com is down) > and she mentioned that the server in question has had some disk problems > over the past few days, along with the Linux kernel crashing (which it > almost never does unless 1) you're running the latest bleeding edge > development kernel, 2) it's a known bad stable version (2.4.20 is one to > really avoid) or 3) the hardware is bad). I sure hope Al believes in backups. -brian. From dwight.elvey at amd.com Thu Oct 23 19:17:18 2003 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:35 2005 Subject: 73 magazine quits-- vintage radios Message-ID: <200310240017.RAA22819@clulw009.amd.com> Hi Ben Check the links at: http://www.plazaearth.com/usr/gasperi/theory.htm Dwight >From: "ben franchuk" > >Tony Duell wrote: >>>More like a tube short of a Zenith Trans-Oceanic. >> >> >> A 1L6 short of a Trans-Oceanic? >> >> -tony >> >> > >Nope, the 1L6 works fine, want to replace the caps >and rebuild the power supply ( The set is older than >I am ) and get real DOC's. The problem seems to be >with the auto-magic gain control and or the selenium >rectifier as it plays for about 10 seconds and then >it goes quiet. Ben. > > > > From jpl15 at panix.com Thu Oct 23 20:10:21 2003 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:35 2005 Subject: Dealing with the Press In-Reply-To: <200310231925.35317.kenziem@sympatico.ca> References: <200310231925.35317.kenziem@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, 23 Oct 2003, Mike wrote: > > Any words of caution when dealing with the press? > Anything that I should make a point to emphasize? > 1. They'll get something wrong. 2. Continually emphasise the 'preservation of technology' aspect - though they might try to drag you into the "goofy guy with stupid collection" box. Depends on what angle they're going for. 3. They're likely to get stuff wrong - remember: K.I.S.S. 4. Getting into collecton valuation is difficult enough here - I'd steer clear of the money part and play up the archival and preservation parts. 5. Keep it simple and clear. These guys are journalists - NOT computer collectors. They might get some things wrong. 6. Ask if they might let you check the copy before it goes to press. 7. Because, in my experience, they always get something wrong. Just my .02 millidollar... John From arlen at acm.org Thu Oct 23 20:19:44 2003 From: arlen at acm.org (Arlen Michaels) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:35 2005 Subject: TRS-80 model 4 serial question. In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.22.2.20031023133125.049869d0@mail.zipcon.net> Message-ID: on 23/10/03 4:33 PM, Geoff Reed wrote: > does anyone have a PDF of the serial installation instructions? and/ or > a PDF of the service manual for the model 4? Geoff, the manual you want is probably here: http://www2.asub.arknet.edu/wade/hardware.htm Arlen Michaels From aw288 at osfn.org Thu Oct 23 20:41:26 2003 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:35 2005 Subject: 73 magazine quits In-Reply-To: <200310232323.QAA22779@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: > You would have a few extra 1L6's lying around. > I could always us a spare. I used to have a few, but I sold them off. 1L6s are getting pricey, in the $25 area. Watch out for National (not National Union!) 1L6s in new boxes. Some are actually 1U6s. Cheating bastards. These will work, but you MUST put a shunt on the filament, as the current draw is different from the other tubes in the TO. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From cb at mythtech.net Thu Oct 23 20:53:29 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:35 2005 Subject: Token Ring JetDirect Message-ID: I know some of you use Token Ring, so I'm offering this here before it gets tossed. I have an HP JetDirect Token Ring MIO. Its a J2373 card. This is an internal JetDirect card for HP printers. I'm not sure which printers are supported by it, but I'm sure a quick look on HPs site will reveal that to anyone that cares. The card has a single DE-9 Female connector on it. Its untested as I've never had a token ring network, but it came along with a rather large box of token ring cards I aquired, and some of you have gotten those cards, and no one has complained that they didn't work (save for one person, but that was because I did a crappy job in packing them and a few of the crate load were damaged in shipping). Just cover postage and its yours. -chris From aek at spies.com Thu Oct 23 21:00:57 2003 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:35 2005 Subject: Al K's site? Message-ID: <200310240200.h9O20vnh008492@spies.com> > I sure hope Al believes in backups. -- I did a complete backup a day before the disc died completely on Wed. It will be a day or two before I can get everything restored (around 20gb) From stevew at ka6s.com Fri Oct 24 09:22:04 2003 From: stevew at ka6s.com (stevew) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:35 2005 Subject: 73 saying 73 Message-ID: <200310240722.04412.stevew@ka6s.com> Just wanted through my two cents worth concerning Mr. Green. I've been licensed since 1974 (17 at the time) and have seen him twice in person. The first is actually some what related to this list considering it was the very first personal computer convention held in Albuquerque, NM in 1975. Now I had only been licensed for a year but already had a low opinion of Mr. Green. Seeing him walk around with his entourage didn't change that opinion much. The thing I remember most about the convention was the Home-brew section. There was one guy out of maybe 6 displays that had done the following (and appropriately blew me away.) He took a HW101 (heathkit SSB transceiver) and built an RTTY modem. He also built a digital control for the transceiver that allowed computer control of the frequency. He used his Altair to work an RTTY radio contest automatically! It was sitting there working contacts as he described it. He was perhaps 24. That was one hell of an engineering demonstration to my teenage eyes. I recall Mr. Green walking by and putting down that particular display. That didn't impress me either! Now fast forward to perhaps 1995. I sat behind him at an ARRL convention, and was rather frail looking. At that point I actually felt sorry for him - imagine THAT! Through the years I've also known a couple guys that knew him because they were local to his home area. Both friends didn't speak very well of him from that angle either. I've never subscribed to 73 mostly because of his hair-brained ideas. I have looked at it upon occasion. All things considered, I'm still sorry to see the mag pull the plug. Steve Wilson, KA6S From allain at panix.com Thu Oct 23 21:39:03 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:35 2005 Subject: Dealing with the Press References: <200310231925.35317.kenziem@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <003a01c399d7$fd3911e0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > Anything that I should make a point to emphasize? How about that classic computing is almost the opposite of business computing -- that the older a computer is, the better. and try mentioning that yiou know of a worldwide network of 300? 600? professionals that will facilitate the move of the older systems free of charge, in many cases. John A. From jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to Thu Oct 23 21:42:38 2003 From: jhfinexgs2 at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:35 2005 Subject: Dealing with the Press References: <200310231925.35317.kenziem@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <3F98919E.FE0F269F@compsys.to> >Mike wrote: > The local paper has asked for an interview about my collection. > They're asking the usual why and how much is it worth. Jerome Fine replies: Since I am an RT-11 addict, there is a bit of a bias that I have. In addition, you don't seem to have even one PDP-11. If you are interested, it would be possible to rectify that aspect. > Any words of caution when dealing with the press? > Anything that I should make a point to emphasize? > mike > Ottawa, Canada > Collector of vintage computers > http://www.ncf.ca/~ba600 >From what I have heard, the press usually (almost always) get something wrong. I don't know if they would be willing to allow you to check what they write for accuracy, but it might be worth a try. In addition, they will often dumb down what they are told since the average person out there does not even know what a non-WinTel system is, let alone that any exist! More suggestions will probably be coming your way! Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Thu Oct 23 22:00:37 2003 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:35 2005 Subject: 73 magazine quits References: Message-ID: <3F9895D5.10601@jetnet.ab.ca> William Donzelli wrote: >> You would have a few extra 1L6's lying around. >>I could always us a spare. > > > I used to have a few, but I sold them off. 1L6s are getting pricey, in > the $25 area. Umm More like $38+ from Antique Electronic Supply. > Watch out for National (not National Union!) 1L6s in new boxes. Some are > actually 1U6s. Cheating bastards. These will work, but you MUST put a > shunt on the filament, as the current draw is different from the other > tubes in the TO. Thanks for the info. > William Donzelli > aw288@osfn.org > > Ben. From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Oct 23 22:10:05 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:35 2005 Subject: Dealing with the Press In-Reply-To: References: <200310231925.35317.kenziem@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20031023200907.Y96495@newshell.lmi.net> In addition, keep in mind that they'll probably get something wrong. On Thu, 23 Oct 2003, John Lawson wrote: > 1. They'll get something wrong. > > 2. Continually emphasise the 'preservation of technology' aspect - though > they might try to drag you into the "goofy guy with stupid collection" > box. Depends on what angle they're going for. > > 3. They're likely to get stuff wrong - remember: K.I.S.S. > > 4. Getting into collecton valuation is difficult enough here - I'd steer > clear of the money part and play up the archival and preservation parts. > > 5. Keep it simple and clear. These guys are journalists - NOT computer > collectors. They might get some things wrong. > > 6. Ask if they might let you check the copy before it goes to press. > > 7. Because, in my experience, they always get something wrong. > > > Just my .02 millidollar... > > > > John From oldcomp at cox.net Thu Oct 23 22:47:22 2003 From: oldcomp at cox.net (Bryan Blackburn) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:35 2005 Subject: Help request: Impact printer by the digital group References: Message-ID: <3F98A0CA.20409@cox.net> Thanks to everyone for the comments and suggestions. >> I've had great luck using liquid graphite lock lubricant. The solvent >>evaporates and leaves only the graphite. The graphite particles in the > > Have you tried 'dry film lubricant' (or at least that's what it's called > over here, Electrolube (used to?) make it). It's similar, but with fine > PTFE particles. The carrier evapourates (it's not really a solvent, I have something very similar, which was made for motorcycle control cables, called Dri Slide. It is molybdenum disulfide based dry film lubricant, withstands high pressure and temp. I think I will give that a try. >>>If you need to, use tungsten wire for the print >>>hammer pins themselves. Also replacements would >>>not rust. >> >> If you can't find the right size wire, try piano wire (from a hobby >>shop) or drill rod (industrial suppliers). Drill rod is annealed (soft) but For my project, at least, it is a moot point. I have already repaired the print pin with a pin robbed from another old printer. The most difficult aspect of the repair was finding a long enough wire of proper diameter. Brazing the wire to the solenoid was a skill I had to learn just for this repair, and was not as hard as I had expected. I spent a lot of time practicing on scrap metal with various heat sources before repairing the print hammer. Thanks again for the suggestions. -Bryan From oldcomp at cox.net Thu Oct 23 22:49:58 2003 From: oldcomp at cox.net (Bryan Blackburn) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:35 2005 Subject: Any Scelbi collectors out there? References: <3.0.6.32.20031023105244.007e5280@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3F98A166.7060805@cox.net> Do wannabe's count? Joe wrote: > The title says it all. > > Joe > > From vcf at siconic.com Fri Oct 24 00:03:31 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:35 2005 Subject: Dealing with the Press In-Reply-To: <200310231925.35317.kenziem@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, 23 Oct 2003, Mike wrote: > The local paper has asked for an interview about my collection. > They're asking the usual why and how much is it worth. > > Any words of caution when dealing with the press? If you agree with the philosophy that the historical value is much more important than the monetary value then be sure to mention that. Keep it simple. Do not give more information than needed. Always spell out any acronyms or explain them clearly. Repeat. The reporter usually gets them wrong anyway. Assume the reporter is a technically unsavvy idiot. They probably are. > Anything that I should make a point to emphasize? Computer collectors are weird and should be avoided. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Fri Oct 24 00:05:57 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:35 2005 Subject: Nice VT420 available...make an offer Message-ID: I have a nice VT420 to offer anyone who wants to make a reasonable (i.e. make it worth my time to pack) offer. Contact me privately please. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From jcwren at jcwren.com Fri Oct 24 01:13:00 2003 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:35 2005 Subject: Dealing with the Press In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200310240213.00995.jcwren@jcwren.com> The trick is to play down the stuff you want to collect, and play up the stuff you want to sell. Raising awareness raises prices. --John On Friday 24 October 2003 01:03 am, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Thu, 23 Oct 2003, Mike wrote: > > The local paper has asked for an interview about my collection. > > They're asking the usual why and how much is it worth. > > > > Any words of caution when dealing with the press? > > If you agree with the philosophy that the historical value is much more > important than the monetary value then be sure to mention that. > > Keep it simple. Do not give more information than needed. Always spell > out any acronyms or explain them clearly. Repeat. The reporter usually > gets them wrong anyway. Assume the reporter is a technically unsavvy > idiot. They probably are. > > > Anything that I should make a point to emphasize? > > Computer collectors are weird and should be avoided. From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Fri Oct 24 01:37:08 2003 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:35 2005 Subject: Fwd: Your message to cctalk awaits moderator approval References: Message-ID: <200310232337080116.0C5C3E14@192.168.42.129> FYI to the list... I did NOT attempt to send the message referenced in the attached bounce notice. It appears that some spammer is forging my domain ID again. If the moderator is reading this, please do NOT let the spam spewage post. Thanks much. *********** BEGIN FORWARDED MESSAGE *********** On 23-Oct-03 at 22:54 cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org wrote: >Your mail to 'cctalk' with the subject > > Decrease your CPU temperature up to 20C! > >Is being held until the list moderator can review it for approval. > >The reason it is being held: > > Post by non-member to a members-only list > >Either the message will get posted to the list, or you will receive >notification of the moderator's decision. If you would like to cancel >this posting, please visit the following URL: > > >http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/confirm/cctalk/4670ebe5ab8d23b380aa1bf2b33c42426bbd5797 > *********** END FORWARDED MESSAGE *********** -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com ARS KC7GR (Formerly WD6EOS) since 12-77 -- kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com "Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati" (Red Green, aka Steve Smith) From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Fri Oct 24 01:43:04 2003 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:35 2005 Subject: Fwd: Your message to cctalk awaits moderator approval In-Reply-To: <200310232337080116.0C5C3E14@192.168.42.129> References: <200310232337080116.0C5C3E14@192.168.42.129> Message-ID: <200310240648.CAA18759@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > FYI to the list... > I did NOT attempt to send the message referenced in the > attached bounce notice. It appears that some spammer is forging > my domain ID again. > If the moderator is reading this, please do NOT let the spam > spewage post. >> Your mail to 'cctalk' with the subject >> >> Decrease your CPU temperature up to 20C! >> >> [...] Neither did the rest of us. Look at the headers: the "message held for moderator" message was sent not to you (or me), but to classiccmp@classiccmp.org (to which I assume you are subscribed). Why classiccmp accepts mail from cctalk-bounces is a mystery; perhaps it's related to the message having been generated locally to classiccmp.org. I discovered this myself only after hitting the "cancel this post" URL, to save the moderator the bother, assuming it was me that had been forged, only to discover it was invalid (presumably because someone had already hit it, or a moderator had already binned the message). Looking more closely, I noticed the To:.... /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From ghldbrd at ccp.com Fri Oct 24 04:46:17 2003 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (ghldbrd@ccp.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:35 2005 Subject: Token Ring JetDirect In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2956.65.123.179.131.1066988777.squirrel@webmail.ccp.com> Now that the subject has been breached, I have a whole box full of token ring cards, mostly PCMCIA, and 7 or 8 TR cards gleaned from my HP 1600 printers. Seems they are less popular than dead skunks these days. Anyone interested, please contact me offlist. Gary Hildebrand St. Joseph, MO > I know some of you use Token Ring, so I'm offering this here before it > gets tossed. > > I have an HP JetDirect Token Ring MIO. Its a J2373 card. This is an > internal JetDirect card for HP printers. I'm not sure which printers are > supported by it, but I'm sure a quick look on HPs site will reveal that > to anyone that cares. > > The card has a single DE-9 Female connector on it. > > Its untested as I've never had a token ring network, but it came along > with a rather large box of token ring cards I aquired, and some of you > have gotten those cards, and no one has complained that they didn't work > (save for one person, but that was because I did a crappy job in packing > them and a few of the crate load were damaged in shipping). > > > Just cover postage and its yours. > > -chris > > > From dzubint at vcn.bc.ca Fri Oct 24 06:08:01 2003 From: dzubint at vcn.bc.ca (Thomas Dzubin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:35 2005 Subject: experiences with portable LCD TVs for classic micros? Message-ID: I have four Timex Sinclair micros sitting in my basement and I've been thinking about turning one (or more) into the world's slowest "franken-laptop" using one of those portable LCD TVs that seem to be on sale at every second-hand store & pawn shop for $10-$20. Has anyone had any experiences in the quality of the TV tuner in these portables? Will I have to keep re-tuning it every 10 minutes or should I look for one with some method of locking into a channel? (or are they too fussy to bother with?) How about screen resolution? Will I be able to make out the 32 characters per line on such a tiny screen? Thomas From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Oct 24 06:31:03 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:35 2005 Subject: Any Scelbi collectors out there? In-Reply-To: <3F98A166.7060805@cox.net> References: <3.0.6.32.20031023105244.007e5280@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031024073103.007ead10@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 08:49 PM 10/23/03 -0700, Bryan Blackburn wrote: If they do, we'll have to include the whole list! :-) >Do wannabe's count? > >Joe wrote: >> The title says it all. >> >> Joe >> >> > > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Oct 24 06:32:33 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:35 2005 Subject: Dealing with the Press In-Reply-To: References: <200310231925.35317.kenziem@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031024073233.007f5420@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 10:03 PM 10/23/03 -0700, Sellam Ismail wrote: >On Thu, 23 Oct 2003, Mike wrote: > >> The local paper has asked for an interview about my collection. >> They're asking the usual why and how much is it worth. >> >> Any words of caution when dealing with the press? > >If you agree with the philosophy that the historical value is much more >important than the monetary value then be sure to mention that. > >Keep it simple. Do not give more information than needed. Always spell >out any acronyms or explain them clearly. Repeat. The reporter usually >gets them wrong anyway. Assume the reporter is a technically unsavvy >idiot. They probably are. > >> Anything that I should make a point to emphasize? > >Computer collectors are weird and should be avoided. Yeah, just give them beer and pizza and all your old computers and leave them alone! Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Oct 24 06:36:20 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:35 2005 Subject: Fwd: Your message to cctalk awaits moderator approval In-Reply-To: <200310232337080116.0C5C3E14@192.168.42.129> References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031024073620.007f2410@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> It looks like some SPAMMER is smart enough to know that he can't get his message through to the list as a non-member so he forged the reply address to make it appear that it came from a legitamit member. I hope Jay finds his real address and sends a nasty note to his ISP. Joe At 11:37 PM 10/23/03 -0700, Bruce wrote: >FYI to the list... > > I did NOT attempt to send the message referenced in the attached bounce notice. It appears that some spammer is forging my domain ID again. > > If the moderator is reading this, please do NOT let the spam spewage post. > > Thanks much. > >*********** BEGIN FORWARDED MESSAGE *********** > >On 23-Oct-03 at 22:54 cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org wrote: > >>Your mail to 'cctalk' with the subject >> >> Decrease your CPU temperature up to 20C! >> >>Is being held until the list moderator can review it for approval. >> >>The reason it is being held: >> >> Post by non-member to a members-only list >> >>Either the message will get posted to the list, or you will receive >>notification of the moderator's decision. If you would like to cancel >>this posting, please visit the following URL: >> >> >>http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/confirm/cctalk/4670ebe5ab8d23b380aa1bf2b 33c42426bbd5797 >> > >*********** END FORWARDED MESSAGE *********** >-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- >Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, >Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com >ARS KC7GR (Formerly WD6EOS) since 12-77 -- kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com >"Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati" (Red Green, aka Steve Smith) > > > From nico at farumdata.dk Fri Oct 24 06:50:39 2003 From: nico at farumdata.dk (Nico de Jong) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:35 2005 Subject: Any Scelbi collectors out there? References: <3.0.6.32.20031023105244.007e5280@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20031024073103.007ead10@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <000f01c39a25$0bfcf320$2101a8c0@farumdata.dk> At 08:49 PM 10/23/03 -0700, Bryan Blackburn wrote: > > > If they do, we'll have to include the whole list! :-) > > >Do wannabe's count? > > > >Joe wrote: > >> The title says it all. > >> > >> Joe Would anyone be so kind as to enlighten me on what a Scelbi is ? Nico From allain at panix.com Fri Oct 24 08:52:42 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:35 2005 Subject: experiences with portable LCD TVs for classic micros? References: Message-ID: <003901c39a36$18b480e0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> TV has a max resolution of about 640 / 8 = 80 characters per line. There are extra factors... pulling the resolution down: sending the signal through RF and not a true video "monitor" jack will cause the loss of maybe 1/2 of total resolution. LCD's because they are small typically don't have all the pixels there anyway. 640 x 480 = 307,200 pixels. Cheap small LCD's might use 120,000 pixels. screens are typically "overscan", meaning the edges are clipped off and lost. Computers meant for home use were built for this and compensate. pushing the resolution up: your eyes and the screen work with analog information. Your brain can add some perception through signal loss, given a context. For example G00D can be percieved as GOOD, even though technically it's wrong. > portable LCD TVs that seem to be on sale at > every second-hand store & pawn shop for $10-$20. $20? Jeepers, no big loss. Try one and see for yourself. Bottomline I think 32 characters per line is pretty easy to get through. John A. From cb at mythtech.net Fri Oct 24 09:00:50 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:35 2005 Subject: experiences with portable LCD TVs for classic micros? Message-ID: >I have four Timex Sinclair micros sitting in my basement and I've been >thinking about turning one (or more) into the world's slowest >"franken-laptop" using one of those portable LCD TVs that seem to be >on sale at every second-hand store & pawn shop for $10-$20. >Has anyone had any experiences in the quality of the TV tuner in >these portables? Will I have to keep re-tuning it every 10 minutes >or should I look for one with some method of locking into a channel? >(or are they too fussy to bother with?) >How about screen resolution? Will I be able to make out the 32 characters >per line on such a tiny screen? I have an old Casio one, and it sucks... at least as a TV. But then, for what I expected from it, its actually really good... if that makes sense. I had low expectations when I bought it years ago, what I wanted it for was to kill time while sitting in a car in a parking lot for 12 hours a day. For that, it worked great. But, it was about the level I expected... crappy resolution, tiny screen, and almost no reception. Its a 2.5" screen model, and if that is the size you are looking at, then I don't think there is any way you can use it for a computer. You can't make out any real details on the TV, so I would expect that you won't be able to read jack squat as a computer screen. Also, every time I turn the Casio on, it starts the tuning of the channels back at the begining, and there is no way to fine tune a channel. You press the channel up or down buttons and it scrolls until it finds something other than static then stops. You get whatever it deems a channel, and nothing more. BUT, I have also used a portable LCD screen that was meant for a Playstation and the likes. This doesn't have a TV tuner, and is a 5" screen with MUCH better resolution. It uses standard NTSC composite input for video (RCA connector), and RCA connectors for Audio. I have it hooked up as the monitoring screen for a closed circuit video recording system. I personally have been rather impressed with it considering I bought it new for $60. VCR on screen displays are fully readable on it, so I would think your 32 characters per line would be fine (I've never counted, but my guess is the VCR OSD text is at least 32 cpl). The only downside I can see is this screen doesn't accept battery power. It does have a power pass thru that lets you piggy back it to the game system it was designed for (which I think was actually a Dreamcast, but I don't recall). And it came with a 12 volt car adaptor for powering the screen and game system. I know when I bought it, there were other models, and IIRC there were some that took batteries. I bought mine specifically because it fit the exact needs I had for it, and battery power wasn't one of the items on my list. -chris From allain at panix.com Fri Oct 24 11:02:56 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:35 2005 Subject: OT: Retro-Tech from TV: Thunderbirds References: Message-ID: <007a01c39a48$4a4ba4a0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> To the members of the list that are my age and don't have time to waste surfing websites and lists for Gerry Anderson's 'Thunderbirds'. Well they made the film! I figure there's maybe five of you out there that care but don't know. more information: http://www.workingtitlefilms.com/ http://www.geocities.com/johntracytb5/tbmoviepg1.html http://www.licensingmedia.com/news/html/042503-2.html The movie looks like a _mixed blessing_, but they really did it. John A. just found out myself From cb at mythtech.net Fri Oct 24 11:20:36 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:35 2005 Subject: OT: Retro-Tech from TV: Thunderbirds Message-ID: >To the members of the list that are my age and don't have >time to waste surfing websites and lists for Gerry Anderson's >'Thunderbirds'. Well they made the film! I figure there's >maybe five of you out there that care but don't know. The Thunderbirds is another shining example of TV that amazes me that I used to love. Heck I had a bunch of toys from that show (I think it was Matchbox that put out a line of "cars" from the show) Although nothing has yet to beat the Smurfs... I watched an episode of that the other day on Cartoon Network, and I'm convinced that my parents used to feed me crack... that's the only explanation I can come up with as to why I used to wake up early on a Saturday morning and excitedly watch those little blue idiots! -chris From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Oct 24 11:34:17 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:35 2005 Subject: OT: Retro-Tech from TV: Thunderbirds In-Reply-To: <007a01c39a48$4a4ba4a0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> References: <007a01c39a48$4a4ba4a0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: >The movie looks like a _mixed blessing_, but they really did it. The trailer on the first website is a bit scary at the beginning. My wife says we'll have to go see it (apparently she'd already heard something about it). Now what would be really cool is if they could do a remake of UFO with the retro feel :^) Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From david_comley at yahoo.com Fri Oct 24 12:09:18 2003 From: david_comley at yahoo.com (David Comley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:35 2005 Subject: OT: Retro-Tech from TV: Thunderbirds In-Reply-To: <007a01c39a48$4a4ba4a0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <20031024170918.17002.qmail@web13506.mail.yahoo.com> This is *definitely* news you can use. I watched the teaser on the film site. Looks like a certain amount of artistic license was employed in determining the proportions of Thunderbird 2 - or more likely the passing years have warped my memory... -Dave --- John Allain wrote: > To the members of the list that are my age and don't > have > time to waste surfing websites and lists for Gerry > Anderson's > 'Thunderbirds'. Well they made the film! I figure > there's > maybe five of you out there that care but don't > know. > > more information: > http://www.workingtitlefilms.com/ > http://www.geocities.com/johntracytb5/tbmoviepg1.html > http://www.licensingmedia.com/news/html/042503-2.html > > The movie looks like a _mixed blessing_, but they > really did it. > > John A. > just found out myself > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com From aw288 at osfn.org Fri Oct 24 12:19:26 2003 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:35 2005 Subject: 73 magazine quits In-Reply-To: <3F9895D5.10601@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: > Umm More like $38+ from Antique Electronic Supply. Street (hamfest) price. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From bpope at wordstock.com Fri Oct 24 12:31:30 2003 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:35 2005 Subject: OT: Retro-Tech from TV: Thunderbirds In-Reply-To: from "chris" at Oct 24, 03 12:20:36 pm Message-ID: <200310241731.NAA27712@wordstock.com> And thusly chris spake: > > Although nothing has yet to beat the Smurfs... I watched an episode of > that the other day on Cartoon Network, and I'm convinced that my parents > used to feed me crack... that's the only explanation I can come up with > as to why I used to wake up early on a Saturday morning and excitedly > watch those little blue idiots! And don't forget Battle of the Planets! :) Cheers, Bryan Pope From mross666 at hotmail.com Fri Oct 24 12:36:09 2003 From: mross666 at hotmail.com (Mike Ross) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:35 2005 Subject: 'moderator approval' Re: cctech Digest, Vol 2, Issue 26 Message-ID: Ummm why am I seeing this? I didn't send the offending message and I'm sure this wasn't intended for the list.... and I don't subscribe to cctalk anyway! Mike http://www.corestore.org >From: cctech-request@classiccmp.org >Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org >To: cctech@classiccmp.org >Subject: cctech Digest, Vol 2, Issue 26 >Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 12:01:41 -0500 (CDT) >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Received: from huey.classiccmp.org ([209.145.140.36]) by >mc5-f26.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5600); Fri, 24 Oct 2003 >10:02:31 -0700 >Received: from huey.classiccmp.org (localhost [127.0.0.1])by >huey.classiccmp.org (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h9OH14gI029703;Fri, 24 >Oct 2003 12:01:41 -0500 (CDT)(envelope-from cctech-bounces@classiccmp.org) >X-Message-Info: vAu4ZEtdRiin8eBT9NiqCriHHhjSd5+m >Message-Id: <200310241701.h9OH14gI029703@huey.classiccmp.org> >X-BeenThere: cctech@classiccmp.org >X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 >Precedence: list >List-Id: General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only >List-Unsubscribe: >, >List-Archive: >List-Post: >List-Help: >List-Subscribe: >, >Sender: cctech-bounces@classiccmp.org >Errors-To: cctech-bounces@classiccmp.org >Return-Path: cctech-bounces@classiccmp.org >X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 Oct 2003 17:02:32.0468 (UTC) >FILETIME=[9D5CED40:01C39A50] > >Send cctech mailing list submissions to > cctech@classiccmp.org > >To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctech >or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > cctech-request@classiccmp.org > >You can reach the person managing the list at > cctech-owner@classiccmp.org > >When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >than "Re: Contents of cctech digest..." > > >Today's Topics: > > 1. Your message to cctalk awaits moderator approval > (cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org) > > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >Message: 1 >Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 22:54:45 -0500 >From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org >Subject: Your message to cctalk awaits moderator approval >To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org >Message-ID: >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >Your mail to 'cctalk' with the subject > > Decrease your CPU temperature up to 20C! > >Is being held until the list moderator can review it for approval. > >The reason it is being held: > > Post by non-member to a members-only list > >Either the message will get posted to the list, or you will receive >notification of the moderator's decision. If you would like to cancel >this posting, please visit the following URL: > > >http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/confirm/cctalk/4670ebe5ab8d23b380aa1bf2b33c42426bbd5797 > > >End of cctech Digest, Vol 2, Issue 26 >************************************* _________________________________________________________________ Enjoy MSN 8 patented spam control and more with MSN 8 Dial-up Internet Service. Try it FREE for one month! http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup From nico at farumdata.dk Fri Oct 24 13:25:01 2003 From: nico at farumdata.dk (Nico de Jong) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:35 2005 Subject: OT: Retro-Tech from TV: Thunderbirds References: Message-ID: <001101c39a5c$25412180$2101a8c0@farumdata.dk> From: "chris" > Although nothing has yet to beat the Smurfs... I watched an episode of > that the other day on Cartoon Network, and I'm convinced that my parents > used to feed me crack... that's the only explanation I can come up with > as to why I used to wake up early on a Saturday morning and excitedly > watch those little blue idiots! Todays parallel could be Teletubbies. I know it is meant for children, but I've never seen anything more braindead. Nico From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Oct 24 13:22:59 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:35 2005 Subject: TRS-80 model 4 serial question. In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.22.2.20031023133125.049869d0@mail.zipcon.net> from "Geoff Reed" at Oct 23, 3 01:33:29 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 793 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20031024/953ce57e/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Oct 24 13:26:06 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:35 2005 Subject: Dealing with the Press In-Reply-To: <200310231925.35317.kenziem@sympatico.ca> from "Mike" at Oct 23, 3 07:25:35 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 666 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20031024/6eaadad5/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Oct 24 13:29:35 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:35 2005 Subject: Dealing with the Press In-Reply-To: <003a01c399d7$fd3911e0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> from "John Allain" at Oct 23, 3 10:39:03 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 777 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20031024/9a997ab3/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Oct 24 13:20:39 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:36 2005 Subject: Help request: Impact printer by the digital group In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20031023161523.007de820@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> from "Joe" at Oct 23, 3 04:15:23 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 971 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20031024/d1700df1/attachment.ksh From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Oct 24 14:44:22 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:36 2005 Subject: Got an iMAC, now what? Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031024154422.007f9100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I was in a surplus store this morning and some guy walked in with an iMAC and said "Here you can have it." and walked out! I brought it home and hokked it up but I can't even figure out how to turn the darnned thing on! Can anyone help? It's a model M5521 350MHz G3 "Blueberry" iMAC. Joe From rhudson at cnonline.net Fri Oct 24 14:53:15 2003 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:36 2005 Subject: OT: Retro-Tech from TV: Thunderbirds In-Reply-To: <200310241731.NAA27712@wordstock.com> Message-ID: On Friday, October 24, 2003, at 12:31 PM, Bryan Pope wrote: > And thusly chris spake: >> >> Although nothing has yet to beat the Smurfs... I watched an episode of >> that the other day on Cartoon Network, and I'm convinced that my >> parents >> used to feed me crack... that's the only explanation I can come up >> with >> as to why I used to wake up early on a Saturday morning and excitedly >> watch those little blue idiots! > > And don't forget Battle of the Planets! :) um, I forgot "Battle of the Planets"... what was that? > > Cheers, > > Bryan Pope > > From bob at jfcl.com Fri Oct 24 15:06:42 2003 From: bob at jfcl.com (Bob Armstrong) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:36 2005 Subject: A real PDP-8 that you can hang on your wall! Message-ID: <03102413064282@jfcl.com> Many of you have already heard of the SBC6120, our single board PDP-8/E clone that you can build from a kit. The SBC6120 now has a complete lights and switches front panel, and the entire assembly, including a hard disk drive, is about 9" by 15" and 2 1/2" thick and can be framed and hung on the wall like a painting. You can see a photo of Debee with one at http://www.sparetimegizmos.com/Hardware/images/Debee%20and%20FP6120.jpg Everything is fully functional; all the lights and switches work as you'd expect and the SBC6120 is able to run most PDP-8 software including FOCAL and OS/8. You can read all about it on our web site at http://www.sparetimegizmos.com/Hardware/SBC6120-2.htm and http://www.sparetimegizmos.com/Hardware/SBC6120_Front_Panel.htm The entire project is open source, and you can download everything there is to know about the SBC6120 and front panel, including manuals, schematics, and firmware source code, from http://www.sparetimegizmos.com/Download.htm If you like what you see then you can have one for your own wall, and we'd be happy to sell you a kit of parts to help you build one. Visit our web store for ordering information http://www.sparetimegizmos.com/Store.htm Thanks, Bob Armstrong From arcarlini at iee.org Fri Oct 24 15:08:40 2003 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:36 2005 Subject: OT: Retro-Tech from TV: Thunderbirds In-Reply-To: <001101c39a5c$25412180$2101a8c0@farumdata.dk> Message-ID: <001301c39a6a$9e3e9be0$5b01a8c0@athlon> > Todays parallel could be Teletubbies. I know it is meant for > children, but I've never seen anything more braindead. Can we the conclude that Denmark must be one of those utopian places that is free from Party Political Broadcasts and daytime television? Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From jruschme at netzero.net Fri Oct 24 15:17:12 2003 From: jruschme at netzero.net (John Ruschmeyer) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:36 2005 Subject: OT: Retro-Tech from TV: Thunderbirds In-Reply-To: <001101c39a5c$25412180$2101a8c0@farumdata.dk> Message-ID: > From: Nico de Jong > Sent: Friday, October 24, 2003 2:25 PM > > Todays parallel could be Teletubbies. I know it is meant for > children, but I've never seen anything more braindead. Maybe it's me, but I always find the Teletubbies faintly disturbing in a post-apocalyptic "Time Machine" kind of way. (Think of the Tubbies as the Eloi with the SunBaby representing a kind of benevolent Morlock.) <<>> From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Fri Oct 24 15:23:33 2003 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (ben franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:36 2005 Subject: 73 magazine quits References: Message-ID: <3F998A45.1060302@jetnet.ab.ca> William Donzelli wrote: >>Umm More like $38+ from Antique Electronic Supply. > > > Street (hamfest) price. Well hamfest price was $5 for the box with a whole bunch of tubes and other goodies a few years back. > William Donzelli > aw288@osfn.org Lets give E-Bay a warm blessing for the high price of old JUNK, and the un-affordable prices of good vintage electronic stuff, be they radios,amps or even computers pre 1975. From jrkeys at concentric.net Fri Oct 24 15:52:33 2003 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:36 2005 Subject: TRS 600 Laptop On eBay Message-ID: <004501c39a70$c0b13740$f30bdd40@oemcomputer> Some guy is asking $1500 for a rare 600? If anyone is looking for one here it is, with 8 days left. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2760526117 From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Oct 24 15:52:38 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:36 2005 Subject: Any Scelbi collectors out there? In-Reply-To: <000f01c39a25$0bfcf320$2101a8c0@farumdata.dk> References: <3.0.6.32.20031023105244.007e5280@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20031024073103.007ead10@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031024165238.007c8980@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 01:50 PM 10/24/03 +0200, you wrote: >At 08:49 PM 10/23/03 -0700, Bryan Blackburn wrote: >> >> >> If they do, we'll have to include the whole list! :-) >> >> >Do wannabe's count? >> > >> >Joe wrote: >> >> The title says it all. >> >> >> >> Joe >Would anyone be so kind as to enlighten me on what a Scelbi is ? > >Nico > > See Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Oct 24 15:56:39 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:36 2005 Subject: Got an iMAC, now what? Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031024165639.007d4730@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Never mind, I figured it out. Found out that Apple doesn't know how to make power cords but HP does :-) Joe > > I was in a surplus store this morning and some guy walked in with an iMAC and said "Here you can have it." and walked out! I brought it home and hokked it up but I can't even figure out how to turn the darnned thing on! Can anyone help? It's a model M5521 350MHz G3 "Blueberry" iMAC. > > Joe From rhudson at cnonline.net Fri Oct 24 16:09:28 2003 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:36 2005 Subject: Got an iMAC, now what? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20031024154422.007f9100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <5A95C792-0666-11D8-832C-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> On Friday, October 24, 2003, at 02:44 PM, Joe wrote: > I was in a surplus store this morning and some guy walked in with an > iMAC > and said "Here you can have it." and walked out! I brought it home and > hokked it up but I can't even figure out how to turn the darnned thing > on! > Can anyone help? It's a model M5521 350MHz G3 "Blueberry" iMAC. > > Joe > > > Did you get a keyboard with it? Mouse? I am not exactly sure since all I have had are powerbooks and beige macs but the power on button is on the keyboard, it think. From teoz at neo.rr.com Fri Oct 24 16:12:21 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:36 2005 Subject: Got an iMAC, now what? References: <3.0.6.32.20031024154422.007f9100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <000e01c39a73$83f390c0$3d7ca418@neo.rr.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe" To: Sent: Friday, October 24, 2003 3:44 PM Subject: Got an iMAC, now what? > I was in a surplus store this morning and some guy walked in with an iMAC > and said "Here you can have it." and walked out! I brought it home and > hokked it up but I can't even figure out how to turn the darnned thing on! > Can anyone help? It's a model M5521 350MHz G3 "Blueberry" iMAC. > > Joe > > Kind of a newer system for this group isnt it? Anyway most macs have a power on button on the keyboard, hit it and the unit should turn on. Check out http://www.lowendmac.com/imacs/imac-d.shtml for more information. From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Oct 24 16:10:59 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:36 2005 Subject: Got an iMAC, now what? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20031024154422.007f9100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> from "Joe" at Oct 24, 2003 03:44:22 PM Message-ID: <200310242111.h9OLB0wc025813@onyx.spiritone.com> > I was in a surplus store this morning and some guy walked in with an iMAC > and said "Here you can have it." and walked out! I brought it home and > hokked it up but I can't even figure out how to turn the darnned thing on! > Can anyone help? It's a model M5521 350MHz G3 "Blueberry" iMAC. Sweet! Lucky B******! Do you have the keyboard and mouse? It might require you to use the 'on' button on the keyboard to power it up, I've never really messed with an iMac. If nothing else, you should be able to use it as a nice email station by putting Eudora on it. It can even run the current version of Mac OS X if you want. Zane From vcf at siconic.com Fri Oct 24 16:29:52 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:36 2005 Subject: Fwd: Your message to cctalk awaits moderator approval In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20031024073620.007f2410@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 24 Oct 2003, Joe wrote: > It looks like some SPAMMER is smart enough to know that he can't get his > message through to the list as a non-member so he forged the reply address > to make it appear that it came from a legitamit member. I hope Jay finds > his real address and sends a nasty note to his ISP. If he finds out where he lives then I'll be happy to deliver something even nastier. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Fri Oct 24 16:35:00 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:36 2005 Subject: Got an iMAC, now what? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20031024154422.007f9100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 24 Oct 2003, Joe wrote: > I was in a surplus store this morning and some guy walked in with an iMAC > and said "Here you can have it." and walked out! I brought it home and > hokked it up but I can't even figure out how to turn the darnned thing on! > Can anyone help? It's a model M5521 350MHz G3 "Blueberry" iMAC. Press any key to continue... -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From tractorb at ihug.co.nz Fri Oct 24 16:41:39 2003 From: tractorb at ihug.co.nz (Dave Brown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:36 2005 Subject: experiences with portable LCD TVs for classic micros? References: Message-ID: <022201c39a77$9bb39850$6a00a8c0@athlon> The LCD screen from an old car TV/nav system will probably be bigger, cheaper and have a better picture-maybe you could use the complete TV setup, as the Timex only has a VHF output? Probably not relevant in this case but more recent systems have external AV inputs as well as the RF/tuner input. The screens in the later ones have an external DC supply jack too so can be easily separated from the rest of the nav system. DaveB ----- Original Message ----- From: "Thomas Dzubin" To: Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2003 12:08 AM Subject: experiences with portable LCD TVs for classic micros? > > I have four Timex Sinclair micros sitting in my basement and I've been > thinking about turning one (or more) into the world's slowest > "franken-laptop" using one of those portable LCD TVs that seem to be > on sale at every second-hand store & pawn shop for $10-$20. > Has anyone had any experiences in the quality of the TV tuner in > these portables? Will I have to keep re-tuning it every 10 minutes > or should I look for one with some method of locking into a channel? > (or are they too fussy to bother with?) > How about screen resolution? Will I be able to make out the 32 characters > per line on such a tiny screen? > > Thomas > > > From CordaAJ at NSWC.NAVY.MIL Fri Oct 24 17:07:53 2003 From: CordaAJ at NSWC.NAVY.MIL (Corda Albert J DLVA) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:36 2005 Subject: 73 magazine quits Message-ID: <7B4C28C84831D211BFA200805F9F345605A16DE2@nswcdlvaex04.nswc.navy.mil> I was there with my brother... we both kinda looked at each other and the people around us when he starting in on the moon landing stuff. The audience was making a huge effort _not_ to appear shocked... unfortunately it wasn't working. I didn't know what to make of it at first... I was hoping it was some sort of lead-in for a joke... but it wasn't. Oh well, we all go down hill eventually... -al- -acorda@1bigred.com -----Original Message----- From: Bryan Pope [mailto:bpope@wordstock.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 3:47 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: 73 magazine quits And thusly Vintage Computer Festival spake: > > On Wed, 22 Oct 2003, John Lawson wrote: > > > Not that everyone always agreed with Wayne - but it's sad to see a > > Publication cease after so many years... > > Oh, he's a swell guy. I'm sure he didn't really mean it when at the first > VCF East he came up right after Eldon Hall, the guy who designed the > Apollo Guidance Computer for the Moon Mission, and proceeded to sketch out > his evidence debunking the US moon landing. > He even had a booklet! ;) We should have taken a picture of the audience when he started doing that - I betcha everybody had a shocked look on their faces with their mouths wide open. When he stayed on topic he was interesting, but when he went off... he really went off! Cheers, Bryan From kd7bcy at teleport.com Fri Oct 24 17:15:12 2003 From: kd7bcy at teleport.com (John Rollins) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:36 2005 Subject: Got an iMAC, now what? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20031024165639.007d4730@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20031024165639.007d4730@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: >Never mind, I figured it out. Found out that Apple doesn't know how to >make power cords but HP does :-) Ouch! That hurts. I always thought Apple had decent cords. Well, then again I always thought these clear-plugged ones that came with my iMac were a bit strange, but it oughta glow nicely when it arcs :-) -JR From waltje at pdp11.nl Fri Oct 24 17:18:25 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:36 2005 Subject: Got an iMAC, now what? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20031024165639.007d4730@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 24 Oct 2003, Joe wrote: > Never mind, I figured it out. Found out that Apple doesn't know how to > make power cords but HP does :-) The only acceptable apple is the one you eat after lunch. --f From kd7bcy at teleport.com Fri Oct 24 17:51:03 2003 From: kd7bcy at teleport.com (John Rollins) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:36 2005 Subject: Got an iMAC, now what? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >Press any key to continue... NOOOOO!!! Not THAT key!!!! LOL... OK I think I've eaten a few too many donuts now. -JR From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Oct 24 20:08:40 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:36 2005 Subject: Got an iMAC, now what? In-Reply-To: <200310242111.h9OLB0wc025813@onyx.spiritone.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20031024154422.007f9100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031024210840.007c5820@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 02:10 PM 10/24/03 -0700, you wrote: >> I was in a surplus store this morning and some guy walked in with an iMAC >> and said "Here you can have it." and walked out! I brought it home and >> hokked it up but I can't even figure out how to turn the darnned thing on! >> Can anyone help? It's a model M5521 350MHz G3 "Blueberry" iMAC. > >Sweet! Lucky B******! Thanks. I think! :-) >Do you have the keyboard and mouse? Yes. After I posted the message I got it working. Turned out to have a bad power cord!!! It works beautifully. It's a model M5521 and has 350 Mhz G3 CPU, 10/100 ethernet, 56k modem, 2 USB, 320 Mb RAM, 6.3 Gb hard drive, 8Mb ATI Rage video and MacOS-9. Not bad for a freebie! It might >require you to use the 'on' button on the keyboard to power it up, I've >never really messed with an iMac. > >If nothing else, you should be able to use it as a nice email station by >putting Eudora on it. That's what I was thinking but the OL has already taken it over to play Solitare and Blackjack on! Joe It can even run the current version of Mac OS X if >you want. > > Zane > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Oct 24 20:10:40 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:36 2005 Subject: Got an iMAC, now what? In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.32.20031024154422.007f9100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031024211040.007eb100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 02:35 PM 10/24/03 -0700, Sellam wrote: >On Fri, 24 Oct 2003, Joe wrote: > >> I was in a surplus store this morning and some guy walked in with an iMAC >> and said "Here you can have it." and walked out! I brought it home and >> hokked it up but I can't even figure out how to turn the darnned thing on! >> Can anyone help? It's a model M5521 350MHz G3 "Blueberry" iMAC. > >Press any key to continue... AFTER I replaced the bad power cord. Gee, I'm glad I had all that high tech training so that I can handle all these complicated repairs! Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Oct 24 20:14:35 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:36 2005 Subject: Got an iMAC, now what? In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.32.20031024165639.007d4730@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20031024165639.007d4730@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031024211435.007f0430@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 03:15 PM 10/24/03 -0700, you wrote: >>Never mind, I figured it out. Found out that Apple doesn't know how to >>make power cords but HP does :-) > >Ouch! That hurts. I always thought Apple had decent cords. this is the third bad one that I've found this year! Well, then >again I always thought these clear-plugged ones that came with my >iMac were a bit strange, but it oughta glow nicely when it arcs :-) :-) Joe > >-JR > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Oct 24 20:15:58 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:36 2005 Subject: Got an iMAC, now what? In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.32.20031024165639.007d4730@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031024211558.007f0890@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 12:18 AM 10/25/03 +0200, Fred wrote: >On Fri, 24 Oct 2003, Joe wrote: > >> Never mind, I figured it out. Found out that Apple doesn't know how to >> make power cords but HP does :-) >The only acceptable apple is the one you eat after lunch. Ordinarily I'd agree but I'm not turning down any free computers. Joe > >--f > > From jwstephens at msm.umr.edu Fri Oct 24 20:19:41 2003 From: jwstephens at msm.umr.edu (jim) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:36 2005 Subject: 73 magazine quits References: <7B4C28C84831D211BFA200805F9F345605A16DE2@nswcdlvaex04.nswc.navy.mil> Message-ID: <3F99CFAD.C8029835@msm.umr.edu> Corda Albert J DLVA wrote: > I was there with my brother... we both kinda looked at > each other and the people around us when he starting in > on the moon landing stuff. The audience was making a > huge effort _not_ to appear shocked... unfortunately > it wasn't working. I was at a conference of the Association of Naval Aviation, PBM group in Tucson some years ago. They have a PBM-5, which is the only airframe of any PBM left. Anyway, we were treated to a wonderful dinner speach by two gentlemen who specialize in getting old beasts like this PBM Airframe flyable, and then getting FCC ferry clearance to move them (by air). Anyway they told this whole tale, which I'll leave out here, and then paused for some questions. After much applause, and so forth, the MC of the night said that one of the guys, (the older of the two) wanted to talk about another topic since he had talked about the ferry flight. Well, he launched into a schpeil about how he had had a lot of UFO encounters during his career and wanted to ask this distinguished group (probably all the PBM WW-2 pilots and aircrews left living at the time) if they had been chased or seen any. this banqet was held in one of these large multistory hotels in Tucson, I think maybe a Hyatt. so we have about 2000 people sitting in a room with the ceiling about 80' or so above us. After about two sentences the room went from an after dinner buzz to where all you heard was the echo of the a/c. maybe 10 or 15 seconds later you heard this collective intake of people saying something like "sh..." or something. After about 5 minutes people began to ease up and sneak out, as the talk continued. I felt really sorry for him on the one hand, as the crowd shrank, but on the other hand... I suspect if he had gone into the Apollo debunk crap today, i'm just enough of a rasty old ass to just stand up and tell him he is full of shit, regardless of the crowd. Jim From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Fri Oct 24 20:28:09 2003 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:36 2005 Subject: Need help: Restoring HP41C Message-ID: <200310241828090213.1067BE27@192.168.42.129> This query would probably best be answered by any list member who works with classic calculators. I have an HP41C in pretty decent condition. The problem is that, over time, the rubber pads under the flex circuit below the display, and the elastomer contacts joining the logic board to the keyboard, seem to have deteriorated enough that the thing is wildly intermittent. What's the best way to deal with these issues? Would I be better off simply replacing the two elastomer strips? If so, where would I get them from? Thanks much... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com ARS KC7GR (Formerly WD6EOS) since 12-77 -- kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com "Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati" (Red Green, aka Steve Smith) From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Oct 24 21:03:25 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:36 2005 Subject: Got an iMAC, now what? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20031024210840.007c5820@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> from "Joe" at Oct 24, 2003 09:08:40 PM Message-ID: <200310250203.h9P23QAQ000546@onyx.spiritone.com> > bad power cord!!! It works beautifully. It's a model M5521 and has 350 Mhz > G3 CPU, 10/100 ethernet, 56k modem, 2 USB, 320 Mb RAM, 6.3 Gb hard drive, > 8Mb ATI Rage video and MacOS-9. Not bad for a freebie! Wow! You really did get a good deal, the person that dumped it was an idiot. He could have sold it and gotten at least a little bit out of it. It has enough RAM that you can definitly load Mac OS X on it. It's definitly a good computer, and can easily handle internet and office type tasks. Zane From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Oct 24 21:08:31 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:36 2005 Subject: AppleTalk card for PC Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031024220831.00801820@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Found this today and thought it was some kind of video card. Bought it and brought it hame and checked the net and found that it's an AppleTalk card for a PC. PN 630-5306-(blank). Anybody need it? Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Oct 24 21:23:22 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:36 2005 Subject: Info? AST Preview! card Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031024222322.00802430@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Found this today. Anybody know anything about it? I tried to search the net for info but got too much clutter (everybody is putting "preview" in their ads!) It's a full length 8 bit ISA card and has a DB-9F and D(something)-25F connector on the slot cover. Besides all the TTL glue chips, it has eight 4264 (64k x 1?) memories and a HD46505SP-2 (CRT Controller)(6845 equivilent?) LSIC and a 2732 EPROM on it. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Oct 24 21:00:30 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:36 2005 Subject: Need help: Restoring HP41C In-Reply-To: <200310241828090213.1067BE27@192.168.42.129> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031024220030.00800250@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Bruce, I used to repair HP -41s. I cut shims out of old punch cards and slid them between the elastometric foam and the flexible conductor then cut the ends off. The really impostant thing about the 41s is that the screws and the posts that they screw into must be in good shape. Also the plastic around the hole where the screw goes through the back case. If any of those are broken or stripped you won't be able to make the 41 work reliably. When assembled, you should not be able to readily pull the case halves apart. If you can then that's your problem. DON'T OVER TIGHTEN THE SCREWS!!!!!!!!!!!!! Clamp the case halves together by hand and tighten the screws until they just seat. If the contacts are unreliable then there are other probblems, fix them, don't overtighten the screws. If you do then sooner or later the back will break out or the posts will break or strip the threads. If you want to, send it to me and I'll see what I can do with it. Joe At 06:28 PM 10/24/03 -0700, you wrote: >This query would probably best be answered by any list member who works with classic calculators. > > I have an HP41C in pretty decent condition. The problem is that, over time, the rubber pads under the flex circuit below the display, and the elastomer contacts joining the logic board to the keyboard, seem to have deteriorated enough that the thing is wildly intermittent. > > What's the best way to deal with these issues? Would I be better off simply replacing the two elastomer strips? If so, where would I get them from? > > Thanks much... > > >-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- >Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, >Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com >ARS KC7GR (Formerly WD6EOS) since 12-77 -- kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com >"Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati" (Red Green, aka Steve Smith) > > > From rhudson at cnonline.net Fri Oct 24 21:58:20 2003 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:36 2005 Subject: OT - Geek Destinations in Kansas City? In-Reply-To: <1278.65.123.179.114.1058917231.squirrel@webmail.ccp.com> Message-ID: <1721892C-0697-11D8-832C-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> Hey Gary, I am in the area now... Can't go out looking soon, till I find a job. On Tuesday, July 22, 2003, at 06:40 PM, ghldbrd@ccp.com wrote: >> We'll be in Kansas City over a weekend in the near future. Are there >> any >> good surplus stores, museums, geek toy stores, etc, that we should be >> sure >> to visit? Suggestions appreciated! > > Only one place left for serious scrounging and that's Surplus Exchange, > 1100 Hickory, down in the West Bottoms. > > There's Computer Garage, but he doesn't have much old stuff. Computer > Swap Shop on Johnson Drive in Mission has a bit more, but he's been > cleaning out the non-moving merchandise. > > If you like new (and can handle the pricetag) Micro Center on 90th and > Metcalf in Overland Park KS is nice to wander through. Very good > selection of computer books, some are even on sale. ooh! had a Micro Center near my home in San Jose... > > Beyond Bytes on 40 Highway near MO 291/I-670 has a very small > selection, > not really worth going to unless you're looking for something to buy > that > day. I have seen this place but not gone in yet. > > His Will Computer Surplus on 23rd in Independence has a lot of wall > warts, > if you need one. A smattering of other things, and a nice selection > of PC > cases. > > T-t-t-t-that's all f-f-f-f-folks, > > Gary Hildebrand > St. Joseph, MO > From rhudson at cnonline.net Fri Oct 24 22:02:23 2003 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:36 2005 Subject: OT - Geek Destinations in Kansas City? In-Reply-To: <1721892C-0697-11D8-832C-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> Message-ID: Sorry everyone, thought I was only talking to Gary... On Friday, October 24, 2003, at 09:58 PM, Ron Hudson wrote: > Hey Gary, > > I am in the area now... > > Can't go out looking soon, till I find a job. > > > On Tuesday, July 22, 2003, at 06:40 PM, ghldbrd@ccp.com wrote: > >>> We'll be in Kansas City over a weekend in the near future. Are >>> there any >>> good surplus stores, museums, geek toy stores, etc, that we should >>> be sure >>> to visit? Suggestions appreciated! >> >> Only one place left for serious scrounging and that's Surplus >> Exchange, >> 1100 Hickory, down in the West Bottoms. >> >> There's Computer Garage, but he doesn't have much old stuff. Computer >> Swap Shop on Johnson Drive in Mission has a bit more, but he's been >> cleaning out the non-moving merchandise. >> >> If you like new (and can handle the pricetag) Micro Center on 90th >> and >> Metcalf in Overland Park KS is nice to wander through. Very good >> selection of computer books, some are even on sale. > > ooh! had a Micro Center near my home in San Jose... > >> >> Beyond Bytes on 40 Highway near MO 291/I-670 has a very small >> selection, >> not really worth going to unless you're looking for something to buy >> that >> day. > > > I have seen this place but not gone in yet. > > >> >> His Will Computer Surplus on 23rd in Independence has a lot of wall >> warts, >> if you need one. A smattering of other things, and a nice selection >> of PC >> cases. >> >> T-t-t-t-that's all f-f-f-f-folks, >> >> Gary Hildebrand >> St. Joseph, MO >> > > From bmachacek at pcisys.net Fri Oct 24 22:12:54 2003 From: bmachacek at pcisys.net (Bill Machacek) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:36 2005 Subject: IBM Displaywriter Message-ID: <009201c39aa5$e679f720$0200000a@xeon> I was just able to obtain two IBM 6580 Displaywriters. I think they came out around 1980. They came with the dual 8" floppy disk drives and keyboards, but no monitors. The units are 6580s, the drives are 6360s, and keyboards are 630X-91-xxxxxxxxx. These are big heavy units. I'm not big on old IBM equipment so will consider offers of a new home for these units. Contact me for additional information on these units. I'm located in Colo. Springs. Bill From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Oct 24 22:19:58 2003 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:36 2005 Subject: So much memory, so little worth keeping In-Reply-To: <003401c396cf$288c8400$4d4d2c0a@atx> References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20031024201129.03078ac0@pop-server.socal.rr.com> Unfortunately this was my week to get the family cold, so I didn't get to the scrap place with the two pallets of memory until 3 pm on Friday. Just in time to watch them get loaded on the truck and taken away. Not a total waste, I did get to go through about 40 lbs of some better grade memory, and picked out 300 4 mb 30 pin simms. I'm not sure if they will work in all 30 pin applications, since they are 3 chip 9 bit simms. I also found a great site on the web for identifying memory down to the chip level, http://www.delec.com/guide/memory/ From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Oct 24 23:00:33 2003 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:36 2005 Subject: WTD: RK05 controllers. References: <3.0.6.32.20031022174553.0081c100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <002301c39aac$89f6ef60$1a02a8c0@starship1> Hi everyone, I'm looking for both a Qbus RK05 controller and the Unibus controllers which I think are a 4 board set. I am also looking for an RLV11 RL02 Unibus controller as well. If anyone has any for sale, please contact me, thanks. Curt From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org Fri Oct 24 23:15:27 2003 From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:36 2005 Subject: A real PDP-8 that you can hang on your wall! In-Reply-To: <03102413064282@jfcl.com> References: <03102413064282@jfcl.com> Message-ID: <3F99F8DF.7020201@aurora.regenstrief.org> Your front panel is neat, the whole thing is neat. So, how about connecting the front panel to my PDP8/A Omnibus? Does your PDP-8 have an Omnibus at all or did you invent a completely different bus or no bus at all? Thanks, -Gunther Bob Armstrong wrote: > Many of you have already heard of the SBC6120, our single board > PDP-8/E clone that you can build from a kit. The SBC6120 now has > a complete lights and switches front panel, and the entire assembly, > including a hard disk drive, is about 9" by 15" and 2 1/2" thick and > can be framed and hung on the wall like a painting. > > You can see a photo of Debee with one at > > http://www.sparetimegizmos.com/Hardware/images/Debee%20and%20FP6120.jpg > > Everything is fully functional; all the lights and switches work > as you'd expect and the SBC6120 is able to run most PDP-8 software > including FOCAL and OS/8. You can read all about it on our web site > at > > http://www.sparetimegizmos.com/Hardware/SBC6120-2.htm > > and > > http://www.sparetimegizmos.com/Hardware/SBC6120_Front_Panel.htm > > The entire project is open source, and you can download everything > there is to know about the SBC6120 and front panel, including manuals, > schematics, and firmware source code, from > > http://www.sparetimegizmos.com/Download.htm > > If you like what you see then you can have one for your own wall, > and we'd be happy to sell you a kit of parts to help you build one. > Visit our web store for ordering information > > http://www.sparetimegizmos.com/Store.htm > > Thanks, > Bob Armstrong -- Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D. gschadow@regenstrief.org Medical Information Scientist Regenstrief Institute for Health Care Adjunct Assistant Professor Indiana University School of Medicine tel:1(317)630-7960 http://aurora.regenstrief.org From nico at farumdata.dk Fri Oct 24 23:55:36 2003 From: nico at farumdata.dk (Nico de Jong) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:36 2005 Subject: OT: Retro-Tech from TV: Thunderbirds References: <001301c39a6a$9e3e9be0$5b01a8c0@athlon> Message-ID: <003001c39ab4$3bd03f00$2101a8c0@farumdata.dk> > > Todays parallel could be Teletubbies. I know it is meant for > > children, but I've never seen anything more braindead. > > Can we the conclude that Denmark must be one of those utopian > places that is free from Party Political Broadcasts and > daytime television? > Daytime television: yes, we can "enjoy" that. Party political: depends on how you define that. All parties in parliament do annual membergatherings, and parts of that are sent on TV, but only a fixed number of minutes pr party. If you think of "party coloured transmissions", where things are presented as if viewed through coloured spectacles: no. We have TV journalists who are known to be member of a party (we have at present about 10 parties in parliament), but they behave themselves. Nico From oldcomp at cox.net Sat Oct 25 00:31:35 2003 From: oldcomp at cox.net (Bryan Blackburn) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:36 2005 Subject: Need help: Restoring HP41C References: <200310241828090213.1067BE27@192.168.42.129> Message-ID: <3F9A0AB7.4080001@cox.net> I haven't worked on a large number of calculators, and I am not familiar with the insides of that one, but if I understand what you are facing: Use denatured alcohol or other greaseless electronic cleaner and a tooth brush to thoroughly clean all the copper or plated metal contact areas. Use Windex or other glass cleaner to clean the conductive strips and LCD contacts (if any), then carefully dry them with a soft paper towel. Leave them on the paper towel until you are ready to reinstall them. (I'm talking about minutes here... not days!) Use a soft pencil eraser to polish the copper or plated metal contact areas. Be sure to find one that does not leave a rubbery residue! Pen erasers work great. Inspect your parts mechanically to be sure that they fit together tightly, and that they have not become loose from stress or wear. Fix as needed. Use a dry soft paper towel to dust off and rub the copper or plated contact areas for a clean and shiny surface. Here comes the tricky part: wet the strips with a very small amount of Windex on both sides. You want to create a light film here. Not dripping wet! Then quickly reassemble the strip and parts that make contact to it before the film dries. This will create a weak "sticky" bond that will not loosen up easily. I've done this procedure at least a thousand times (no kidding!) and unless I did something wrong or the parts were beyond salvation, it always worked. Good luck! -Bryan > > I have an HP41C in pretty decent condition. The problem is that, over > time, the rubber pads under the flex circuit below the display, and > the elastomer contacts joining the logic board to the keyboard, seem > to have deteriorated enough that the thing is wildly intermittent. > > What's the best way to deal with these issues? Would I be better off > simply replacing the two elastomer strips? If so, where would I get > them from? > > Thanks much... From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Sat Oct 25 02:41:23 2003 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:36 2005 Subject: Up for sale: HP-41C and VAXen Boards Message-ID: <200310250041230911.11BD773C@192.168.42.129> Since this is another of my shameless plugs, I'll keep it short. I've posted an HP-41C calculator, a bunch of MicroVAX II boards, and some other goodies on E-pay. Do a search by seller for 'bftbell' (sans quotes) if you're interested. Thanks much. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com ARS KC7GR (Formerly WD6EOS) since 12-77 -- kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com "Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati" (Red Green, aka Steve Smith) From waltje at pdp11.nl Sat Oct 25 09:54:01 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:36 2005 Subject: Sun Ultra1 - onboard AUI/UTP setting?? Message-ID: Hi, We seem to have a semi-dead Ultra1 here. Although Sol9 seems to work OK, it refuses to talk to the Ethernet (a crosscable connected to a Win box.) Cabling and such is fine, as is Win box- this works on other amchines, just not the U1. I am beginning to suspect the U1 is trying to talk through its AUI port, rather than the UTP. Any OpenBoot commands or switches that I need be aware of? Thanks, Fred -- Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist Visit the VAXlab Project at http://www.pdp11.nl/VAXlab/ Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Sunnyvale, CA, USA From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Sat Oct 25 09:02:27 2003 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:36 2005 Subject: Got an iMAC, now what? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20031024211558.007f0890@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20031024165639.007d4730@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20031024211558.007f0890@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <105ff4464c.philpem@dsl.pipex.com> In message <3.0.6.32.20031024211558.007f0890@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Joe wrote: > Ordinarily I'd agree but I'm not turning down any free computers. Same here - someone offered me a Celeron-400 system for free - IIRC the reason was "it's too powerful for our network". What, a C400 with 90MB RAM and 8GB HDD is "too powerful"? One Intel PRO/100 Ethernet card later and it's sitting on my network running Bugzilla and playing MPEGs. "Windows? Only windows 'ere are the ones that let the sun in!" Later. -- Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, philpem@dsl.pipex.com | ViewFinder, Ethernet (Acorn AEH62), http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ | 8xCD, framegrabber, Teletext A seminar on time travel will be held two weeks ago. From rcini at optonline.net Sat Oct 25 11:16:29 2003 From: rcini at optonline.net (Richard A. Cini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:36 2005 Subject: OT: Need help installing Darwin Message-ID: <000201c39b13$59944900$1601a8c0@bbrdhveies50vd> Hello, all: This weekend I'm dabbling with Apple's Darwin for the x86, trying to install it on a recent vintage "scrap" PC. Has anyone on the list experimented with Darwin and got a fully working and configured system? I can log in, so the system works but it doesn't seem like anything was installed except the base OS. Please contact me off-list. Thanks. Rich Rich Cini Collector of classic computers Build Master for the Altair32 Emulation Project Web site: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ /************************************************************/ From dfnr2 at yahoo.com Sat Oct 25 12:57:13 2003 From: dfnr2 at yahoo.com (Dave) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:36 2005 Subject: Superboard (C1P) Rev D video modes Message-ID: <20031025175713.8766.qmail@web9407.mail.yahoo.com> Hello, I just got a superboard Rev D, which is newer than the models I remember. Looking through a schematic, I found an addressable latch controlled by a signal "/32" It turns out that you can poke a 1 to D800 (just like the C2) and get narrow characters -- 48 on a line. I also see a slot for an extra 2114/8T28 and an extra 16-pin dip connector. Was there a superboard or C1 marketed with color or 64-character line options? Does anyone have any documentation regarding this and other features of the Rev D board? Thanks, David __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Oct 25 13:16:34 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:36 2005 Subject: Need help: Restoring HP41C In-Reply-To: <200310241828090213.1067BE27@192.168.42.129> from "Bruce Lane" at Oct 24, 3 06:28:09 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2345 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20031025/88c4ad31/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Oct 25 13:21:10 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:37 2005 Subject: WTD: RK05 controllers. In-Reply-To: <002301c39aac$89f6ef60$1a02a8c0@starship1> from "Curt vendel" at Oct 25, 3 00:00:33 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1044 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20031025/7cfc8b72/attachment.ksh From bob at jfcl.com Sat Oct 25 14:08:57 2003 From: bob at jfcl.com (Bob Armstrong) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:37 2005 Subject: A real PDP-8 that you can hang on your wall! Message-ID: <03102512085715@jfcl.com> >Your front panel is neat, the whole thing is neat. So, how about connecting >the front panel to my PDP8/A Omnibus? Does your PDP-8 have an Omnibus at >all or did you invent a completely different bus or no bus at all? Electrically speaking the front panel is not anything like a PDP-8 front panel; probably the most practical way to connect it to a PDP-8/A would be to design a new circuit board and just keep the front panel plastic that I've made. You can buy the front panel plastic alone if you want to undertake such a project. The SBC6120 does have an expansion bus, but it's not OMNIBUS. A SBC6120 to OMNIBUS interface is possible, but it would take a little work. It's all open source, though, so feel free! Bob From bob at jfcl.com Sat Oct 25 15:11:49 2003 From: bob at jfcl.com (Bob Armstrong) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:37 2005 Subject: Free DEC Handbooks Message-ID: <03102513114988@jfcl.com> I have several copies of the following DEC handbooks to give away completely free: Microcomputers and Memories (1982) Microcomputer Interfaces (1980) The only catch is that you either a) have to pick yours up in Milpitas CA, or b) you have to send me an SASE big enough to hold them. Figure one 8" x 10" padded envelope with 2lbs (they're thick books!) postage each. Thanks, Bob Armstrong From meltie at meltie.com Sat Oct 25 17:41:20 2003 From: meltie at meltie.com (Alex White) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:37 2005 Subject: DSSI connector Q... Message-ID: <200310252341.20401.meltie@meltie.com> Hi guys Would a cable described as "VHDCI connectors, but they only have 50 pins. They are female connectors." possibly be an external DSSI cable? thanks alex/melt From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sat Oct 25 18:49:59 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:37 2005 Subject: Heathkit tips Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031025194959.007fec70@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I found this on the net . It cover all the Heathkit stuff, not just the computers but I though it might still be usefull. Joe From allain at panix.com Sat Oct 25 19:07:06 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:37 2005 Subject: DSSI connector Q... References: <200310252341.20401.meltie@meltie.com> Message-ID: <001d01c39b55$17f28100$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> I have some of the new type DSSI cables to spare, but not the old. Question 1: pins/'''IDC''' or '''centronics'''? > "VHDCI connector" Post a link or something. I can't tell from the name. John A. From allain at panix.com Sat Oct 25 20:03:41 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:37 2005 Subject: Can anyone ID this Digital board? References: <003a01c39847$246366e0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <01b101c39b5c$ffe1f200$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> >...find a complete system for about $50. There are about 14 MicroVAX 3100's posted on eBay now for $0.99 plus $32 shipping. I'd get one now if I needed it. The things called VAX Servers and MicroVAXes are superior to VAXstations, especially with the 3100 series. John A. OK, MicroVAXen From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Sat Oct 25 21:07:05 2003 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:37 2005 Subject: Retro-Tech from TV: Thunderbirds References: <007a01c39a48$4a4ba4a0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <009201c39b65$f424f210$0200a8c0@geoff> ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Allain" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2003 2:32 AM Subject: OT: Retro-Tech from TV: Thunderbirds > To the members of the list that are my age and don't have > time to waste surfing websites and lists for Gerry Anderson's > 'Thunderbirds'. Well they made the film! I figure there's > maybe five of you out there that care but don't know. > > more information: > http://www.workingtitlefilms.com/ > http://www.geocities.com/johntracytb5/tbmoviepg1.html > http://www.licensingmedia.com/news/html/042503-2.html > > The movie looks like a _mixed blessing_, but they really did it. Thunderbirds is still playing on some tv stations here. It has something of a cult following in Oz. Geoff in Oz From tothwolf at concentric.net Sat Oct 25 22:49:47 2003 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:37 2005 Subject: DSSI connector Q... In-Reply-To: <200310252341.20401.meltie@meltie.com> References: <200310252341.20401.meltie@meltie.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 25 Oct 2003, Alex White wrote: > Hi guys > > Would a cable described as "VHDCI connectors, but they only have 50 > pins. They are female connectors." possibly be an external DSSI cable? I've seen high density SCSI cables that use those connectors. Maybe thats what you've found? -Toth From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Sat Oct 25 23:08:23 2003 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:37 2005 Subject: [ADV] The Vintage Computer Forum Message-ID: <01f501c39b76$ccbcd740$947ba8c0@p933> Hello, Hopefully I don't offend anyone by posting this. I just want to share that I'm running a web-based forum off of my website at www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum. ? The forums already have over 200 registered users and nearly 2,000 posts and I believe that they are providing a valuable service to the community, just like these mail lists. I believe that there is room for a variety of these communities within the vintage computer community and I invite you, if you have time, to stop by and see what the VC Forum might offer you. ? Please forgive my intrusion, ? ?? Erik Klein ?? www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum ?? The Vintage Computer Forum From cb at mythtech.net Sat Oct 25 23:45:28 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:37 2005 Subject: Retro-Tech from TV: Thunderbirds Message-ID: > Thunderbirds is still playing on some tv stations here. It has something >of a cult following in Oz. I believe it plays on TechTV here is the USA (or did at least not too long ago when I caught a few episodes). -chris From meltie at meltie.com Sun Oct 26 04:03:01 2003 From: meltie at meltie.com (Alex White) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:37 2005 Subject: DSSI connector Q... In-Reply-To: <001d01c39b55$17f28100$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> References: <200310252341.20401.meltie@meltie.com> <001d01c39b55$17f28100$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <200310261003.02102.meltie@meltie.com> On Sunday 26 Oct 2003 1:07 am, John Allain wrote: > I have some of the new type DSSI cables to spare, > but not the old. > Question 1: pins/'''IDC''' or '''centronics'''? > > > "VHDCI connector" > > Post a link or something. I can't tell from the name. http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3055015092&category=3704 alex/melt From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Sun Oct 26 14:09:07 2003 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:37 2005 Subject: DSSI connector Q... In-Reply-To: <200310252341.20401.meltie@meltie.com>; from meltie@meltie.com on Sat, Oct 25, 2003 at 15:41:20 %z References: <200310252341.20401.meltie@meltie.com> Message-ID: <20031026200907.GG1365@oblina.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 2003.10.25 15:41 Alex White wrote: > Would a cable described as "VHDCI connectors, but they only have 50 > pins. They are female connectors." possibly be an external DSSI cable? No. DSSI uses SubD HD 50 connectors and that is not VHDCI. And probably cou can't use SCSI cables at all. SCSI and DSSI use a different wiring sheme for signal and GND lines. Normaly you should have twisted pairs of lines, one signal, one GND. Due to the pinout differences you may end up with two signals on one twisted pair when using a SCSI cable for DSSI. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Sun Oct 26 14:18:18 2003 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:37 2005 Subject: DSSI connector Q... In-Reply-To: <200310261003.02102.meltie@meltie.com>; from meltie@meltie.com on Sun, Oct 26, 2003 at 02:03:01 %z References: <200310252341.20401.meltie@meltie.com> <001d01c39b55$17f28100$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> <200310261003.02102.meltie@meltie.com> Message-ID: <20031026201818.GI1365@oblina.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 2003.10.26 02:03 Alex White wrote: > http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3055015092&category=3704 This doesn't look like VHDCI, more like "mini Centronix". You should be able to get from the code numbers "BC21Q-09, rev C01, 8149-000" if it is SCSI or DSSI. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz From waltje at pdp11.nl Sun Oct 26 07:09:23 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:37 2005 Subject: DSSI connector Q... In-Reply-To: <20031026201818.GI1365@oblina.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: On Sun, 26 Oct 2003, Jochen Kunz wrote: > On 2003.10.26 02:03 Alex White wrote: > > > http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3055015092&category=3704 These are new-style DSSI cables. I have two boxes full of em :) They were used a lot with early Alpha boxes that had the EISA and PCI based DSSI cards, connecting to (external) DSSI storage boxes, of which I also have a few. The older cables (used on many BA440-class boxes) are similar, but different in physical shape. --f -- Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist Visit the VAXlab Project at http://www.pdp11.nl/VAXlab/ Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Sunnyvale, CA, USA From meltie at meltie.com Sun Oct 26 07:32:00 2003 From: meltie at meltie.com (Alex White) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:37 2005 Subject: DSSI connector Q... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200310261332.00273.meltie@meltie.com> On Sunday 26 Oct 2003 1:09 pm, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > On Sun, 26 Oct 2003, Jochen Kunz wrote: > > On 2003.10.26 02:03 Alex White wrote: > > > http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3055015092&cate > > >gory=3704 > > These are new-style DSSI cables. I have two boxes full of em :) > > They were used a lot with early Alpha boxes that had the EISA and PCI > based DSSI cards, connecting to (external) DSSI storage boxes, of which > I also have a few. The older cables (used on many BA440-class boxes) > are similar, but different in physical shape. I'm about to aquire a KFQSA for my 4000/200 in a ba213 cab, to go with a QBUS->SCSI Storageworks coverter and box and it'll need a DSSI cable... i'm not going to have enough clearance to use this cable between the cable and thje front cover of the cabinet, am I? *mutter mutter want another right-angled DSSI cable mutter* alex/melt From waltje at pdp11.nl Sun Oct 26 07:45:49 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:37 2005 Subject: DSSI connector Q... In-Reply-To: <200310261332.00273.meltie@meltie.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 26 Oct 2003, Alex White wrote: > I'm about to aquire a KFQSA for my 4000/200 in a ba213 cab, to go with a > QBUS->SCSI Storageworks coverter and box and it'll need a DSSI cable... > i'm not going to have enough clearance to use this cable between the cable > and thje front cover of the cabinet, am I? Nope.. you'll need to get an angled cable for that, or just leave the cover open a bit. I cant remember whether the connectors even fit- the KFQSA has the old ones, I believe (and I'm too lazy to walk upstairs to check..) > *mutter mutter want another right-angled DSSI cable mutter* We can fix that.. contact me offlist. --f -- Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist Visit the VAXlab Project at http://www.pdp11.nl/VAXlab/ Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Sunnyvale, CA, USA From waltje at pdp11.nl Sun Oct 26 11:43:42 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:37 2005 Subject: HP 82161A Digital Cassette Drive found Message-ID: > HP 82161A Digital Cassette Drive. Klassieker. Voor HP programmeerbare > rekenmachines, b.v. 41C of 75C. Met 4 mini cassettes. Incl. USA voeding Is this of any interest to anyone? Its in Holland, but I can go grab it for whoever wants it. Cheers, Fred -- Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist Visit the VAXlab Project at http://www.pdp11.nl/VAXlab/ Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Sunnyvale, CA, USA From allain at panix.com Sun Oct 26 15:14:45 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:37 2005 Subject: DSSI connector Q... References: Message-ID: <000701c39c06$30764520$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> > They were used a lot with early Alpha boxes... > The older cables (used on many BA440... If somebody could tell me where there's a cable with the old DSSI connector type on one end and the new on the other, that would meke me a happier person. Just a DEC p/n would help. John A. probably overstated. From acme at gbronline.com Sun Oct 26 15:06:10 2003 From: acme at gbronline.com (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:37 2005 Subject: experiences with portable LCD TVs for classic micros? References: <022201c39a77$9bb39850$6a00a8c0@athlon> Message-ID: <00ae01c39c04$fc4cce00$5d4f0945@thegoodw> Hello Dave -- Lots of folks have added LCD screens to their ZX81s and TS1000s. Please see http://www.fischerkai.de/zxteam/zx96_e.htm for a complete description of Kai Fischer's ZX96. The standard display on this machine is an LCD. Later -- Glen Goodwin 0/0 Want to save money on TV/stereo repair parts and other electronic components? http://www.acme-sales.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Brown" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Friday, October 24, 2003 4:41 PM Subject: Re: experiences with portable LCD TVs for classic micros? > The LCD screen from an old car TV/nav system will probably be bigger, > cheaper and have a better picture-maybe you could use the complete TV setup, > as the Timex only has a VHF output? > Probably not relevant in this case but more recent systems have external AV > inputs as well as the RF/tuner input. The screens in the later ones have an > external DC supply jack too so can be easily separated from the rest of the > nav system. > DaveB > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Thomas Dzubin" > To: > Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2003 12:08 AM > Subject: experiences with portable LCD TVs for classic micros? > > > > > > I have four Timex Sinclair micros sitting in my basement and I've been > > thinking about turning one (or more) into the world's slowest > > "franken-laptop" using one of those portable LCD TVs that seem to be > > on sale at every second-hand store & pawn shop for $10-$20. > > Has anyone had any experiences in the quality of the TV tuner in > > these portables? Will I have to keep re-tuning it every 10 minutes > > or should I look for one with some method of locking into a channel? > > (or are they too fussy to bother with?) > > How about screen resolution? Will I be able to make out the 32 characters > > per line on such a tiny screen? > > > > Thomas > > > > > > > > > From oldcomp at cox.net Mon Oct 27 03:04:08 2003 From: oldcomp at cox.net (Bryan Blackburn) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:37 2005 Subject: More photos: digital group impact printer restoration References: <3F97148C.4050004@cox.net> Message-ID: <3F9CDF88.3060802@cox.net> If anyone is interested, I have added another page to the photos of my digital group printer restoration. (Is anyone interested? :) The original page, Page 1: http://members.cox.net/oldcomp3/dgp/dgprinter.shtml and the new photos, Page 2: http://members.cox.net/oldcomp3/dgp/dgprinter2.shtml -Bryan From huw.davies at kerberos.davies.net.au Mon Oct 27 04:18:07 2003 From: huw.davies at kerberos.davies.net.au (Huw Davies) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:37 2005 Subject: Retro-Tech from TV: Thunderbirds In-Reply-To: <009201c39b65$f424f210$0200a8c0@geoff> References: <007a01c39a48$4a4ba4a0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> <009201c39b65$f424f210$0200a8c0@geoff> Message-ID: <1067249340.787.1.camel@newton.gb.davies.net.au> On Sun, 2003-10-26 at 13:07, Geoff Roberts wrote: > > The movie looks like a _mixed blessing_, but they really did it. > Thunderbirds is still playing on some tv stations here. It has something > of a cult following in Oz. All the episodes are available on DVD here too. Naturally I purchased a complete set (not for me you understand, my nephews enjoy watching them - I think :-). -- Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@kerberos.davies.net.au Melbourne | "If soccer was meant to be played in the Australia | air, the sky would be painted green" From chrisc at addpower.com Mon Oct 20 11:46:02 2003 From: chrisc at addpower.com (Christopher Cureau) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:37 2005 Subject: upcoming classiccmp wierdness Message-ID: My boxes have borrowed their names from Bloom County...there's opus and bill connected to the network, and milo (my vax) which is currently not connected to anything besides my terminal emulation program. Philip Pemberton cc: Sent by: Subject: RE: upcoming classiccmp wierdness cctech-bounces@clas siccmp.org 10/17/2003 01:11 PM Please respond to "General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only" In message <69DBC74E5784D6119BEA0090271EB8E5FA3EB2@MAIL10> "Cini, Richard" wrote: > And of course there should be an "Uncle Donald" around there somewhere : -) Well, seeing as we're on the subject of machine names, I've been using star names, constellations and Zodiac signs - Polaris, Arcturus, Vega, Rigel, Coriolis and Aquarius have all been used so far. The laptops are named after Star Trek movies and series - Nemesis and Voyager. As for the machines that sit there doing nothing 99% of the time? IJSH and IJST. Guess what IJST and IJSH mean :) I'd be interested to find out what network names/nicknames some other classiccmpers have given their machines. Later. -- Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, philpem@dsl.pipex.com | ViewFinder, Ethernet (Acorn AEH62), http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ | 8xCD, framegrabber, Teletext * <- Tribble # <- Tribble after Borg assimilation From sieler at allegro.com Mon Oct 20 13:10:37 2003 From: sieler at allegro.com (Stan Sieler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:37 2005 Subject: MCM/70 : first "laptop"? Message-ID: <3F93C2AD.5831.DA86F4D@localhost> Hi, My candidate for the first "laptop" is the MCM/70, from 1973. It was an 8008 computer, with APL in ROM, a one line 32-character video display, dual cassettes for mass storage, internal batteries (so it could run "on your lap" for a bit :), and "virtual memory" via the casettes. Some more info at: http://www.yorku.ca/yfile/archive/index.asp?Article=1044 http://www.cs.yorku.ca/~zbigniew/MCM_col.html I got a phone call yesterday from a guy who owns a working MCM/70 ... that he bought new in 1975. Sadly (for me :), he doesn't want to part with it :( He confirmed that it could run for a short while on batteries. The MCM/70 was announced in 1973. I'm not sure of the actual first shipping date, but his was received in Jan 1975. (The Computer History Museum's MCM/70 is dated 1974 on the display card.) Misc notes about the MCM/70 from the guy... He ordered his MCM/70 in August, 1974 ... and started threatening legal action in December ... that got him a machine in January 1975. (I'm not 100% sure of the months.) This makes me wonder: did the machine *ever* ship in 1973 or 1974, or did it first ship in 1975? He said that if the batteries were low, powering on the machine often resulted in a failure in the power supply. He reduced the problem by (1) adding a 10-ohm resistor (somewhere unknown); and (2) switching to a different kind of battery pack (instead of the individual batteries). Did I mention that he doesn't want to sell it? I'm working with him on trying to copy/scan some of the material he has about the computer (including original advertisements). Stan From vp at mcs.drexel.edu Mon Oct 20 13:43:06 2003 From: vp at mcs.drexel.edu (Vassilis Prevelakis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:37 2005 Subject: sticky Sony 3.5" drive Message-ID: <200310201843.h9KIh6tj017608@king.mcs.drexel.edu> The following article although not written by Tony is still detailed and informative: http://www.hpmuseum.org/cgi-sys/cgiwrap/hpmuseum/articles.cgi?read=78 **vp From vp at mcs.drexel.edu Mon Oct 20 14:05:21 2003 From: vp at mcs.drexel.edu (Vassilis Prevelakis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:37 2005 Subject: sticky Sony 3.5" drive Message-ID: <200310201905.h9KJ5LTR018411@king.mcs.drexel.edu> Since pictures are always better, check these instructions made by Mike Davis http://www.msdsite.com/forums/tutorial.php?tu_action=view&uid=500 **vp From general at emr.net Tue Oct 21 10:24:49 2003 From: general at emr.net (James R. Carter) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:37 2005 Subject: at&t 6310 Message-ID: <3F954FC1.66C8@emr.net> Hello, I've been trying for weeks to obtain some basic information about an AT&T 6310 personal computer I'm trying to restore. You seem to have one! All I need to know is what the following original parts were: hard drive drive controller card floppy drives (make, model, and face color) Any help you may be able to offer would be _greatly_ appreciated. It's amazing how little information or support there is for AT&T/Olivetti computers on the web or from AT&T, Olivetti, or NCR. Thanks much, Jim Carter From comex at vigamil.cl Tue Oct 21 15:19:43 2003 From: comex at vigamil.cl (=?us-ascii?Q?Mauricio_Leon?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:37 2005 Subject: Manual 16c Message-ID: <01C397EF.270012C0.comex@vigamil.cl> Hi Brian. I need the manual of 16C, I seek all place, but can?t find. Can you help me? From PLancashire at columbia.com Tue Oct 21 17:39:22 2003 From: PLancashire at columbia.com (Lancashire, Pete) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:37 2005 Subject: How do _you_ move equipment? What "tools" do you use? Message-ID: <88A237F0F2A83949BB50CA3CFB577B37011C786C@US-TRILLIUM.columbia.csc> give piano movers a try. I had a Hammond (guts same as a B3), its weight 450# plus 100# for the amp/speakers all moved for moved for $250. Their fee was $200 for the move and $50 for each set of stairs. >From memory, the size of what I was moving did not make a difference as long as it fit in their truck. A fun note was the three guys that showed up where Somlians (sp?), originally from Hawaii. They got out all their moving stuff, but then took a look at the organ, two of them just picked it up with out any stress and carried it into the truck .. scary :) -pete -----Original Message----- From: Fred N. van Kempen [mailto:waltje@pdp11.nl] Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2003 2:39 PM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: How do _you_ move equipment? What "tools" do you use? On Mon, 20 Oct 2003, JP Hindin wrote: > I am faced with picking up a sizeable IBM some hours from where I live > in the next few weeks. What I had originally planned to do has fallen > through, and now I am left trying to work out how best to lift what > has been estimated as 800+lbs of 1978 IBM. Heh. Heavy iron requires the use of heavy neighbors. Er. Did I just say that? Ahwell. Tis true. Although I can usually move the smaller stuff in either my own (sedan) car, or a small van, big stuff needs a truck with a not-too-high loading bay. I'd kill for a used U-Haul truck here, really... those, albeit ragged down, are perfect for loading up old iron... And, then, of course, the neighbors and friends come into the picture, 'cos at some point, the goods needs to be moved into a storage, garage, or, in my case, upstairs room :) (yes, that is always a neighborhood project here.. and they love it ;-) Cheers, Fred -- Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist Visit the VAXlab Project at http://www.pdp11.nl/VAXlab/ Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Sunnyvale, CA, USA From eclipsah at rdslink.ro Tue Oct 21 21:00:34 2003 From: eclipsah at rdslink.ro (eclipsah) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:37 2005 Subject: about the Teac FD-55GFR 5 1/4" Drive Message-ID: <5824972.1066788034125.JavaMail.Administrator@ATP2> I had the same problem on my Teac FD-55GFR 5 1/4" Drive, as I was trying to recover some old applications of mine. Here are some advices: 1. Check if the BIOS setting is correct (1.2MB/5 1/4") 2. Check if the jumper configuration is correct - you can find that at: http://www.teac.com/DSPD/pdf/5fd0050a.pdf 3. My problem: the spring that holds the head #1 on the disk surface probably "got old". If this is the problem, try to press it gently onto the disk, and push it twards the tracks at the end of the disk (the center). If this was useful, I would appreciate a thank you mail... just kidding ;). From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Wed Oct 22 03:35:28 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:37 2005 Subject: Can anyone ID this Digital board? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Ian Primus > Sent: 22 October 2003 01:59 > To: cctech@classiccmp.org > Subject: Can anyone ID this Digital board? > > recognized it as Digital. What did this come from? My best guess would > be a VaxStation, but I don't really know. I would like to get this > machine functional (I always wanted something I could run VMS on). Can It looks like a lower-end VAXstation 3100. Compare it to the board in my Infoserver 150VXT, which is a MicroVAX 3100 model 10: http://www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk/Museum/Digital/infoserver/infoserver.php Those machines have a single on-board SCSI channel (the wide connector middle rear) but you need the proprietary cable to plug anything in. The console connector is the one nearest the thin ethernet port and halt switch - the four ports are labelled 0,1,3,2 with 2 being the DB25 full modem socket. Going from memory the 2 sockets furthest away from the back panel are for a framebuffer card and extra memory and one of the back ones next to the SCSI connector were for the 2nd SCSI card for external devices. Can't remember what the other one was for, maybe a synch comms board? Can't help with the power pinouts right now..... cheers -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From ajay_chadha at ttps.ntpc.co.in Wed Oct 22 05:43:28 2003 From: ajay_chadha at ttps.ntpc.co.in (ajay_chadha@ttps.ntpc.co.in) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:37 2005 Subject: POST problem Message-ID: <57eec465.c46557ee@ttps.ntpc.co.in> we have IBM RS/6000 7043-140 , it is not booting during POST LED shows F50 and then nthing happens maching is not booting i was trying to install linux from boot floppy after that it happens pl help AJAY CHADHA ENGINEER (IT) IT DEPARTMENT ,NTPC TTPS ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "Speed & Quality is essence of IT" From Vines.Julian at northropgrumman.ca Wed Oct 22 09:50:52 2003 From: Vines.Julian at northropgrumman.ca (Vines Julian) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:37 2005 Subject: Digidata Mag Tape Unit Message-ID: Sir, I am following up on a query on the following link and am hoping that you may be able to help...: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/2003-September/026900.html Within our organization , we use a number of 9-track Digidata Mag Tape Units, Model P/N 1149-8-2-120-FN-UL. We have some vendor service manuals for these, however what we have, do not have any information regarding how to perform or check head alignment. We are looking either for a manual addressing this head alignment or a "service agent" that has the capability to repair / align these units.. We have tried Digidata themselves and they have no information. I am assuming someone somewhere has the capability / and or knowledge to repair them and am looking for a contact Any suggestions ?? Thanks for your help. Julian Vines Engineering Dept. Navigation Systems Division Northrop Grumman Canada Corporation 25, Cityview Drive, Toronto, Ontario M9W 5A7 Ph: 416 249 1231 Ext 2603 Fax: 416 246 2018 Visit us at www.ngnavsys-canada.ca From hilton at entelos.com Wed Oct 22 19:47:11 2003 From: hilton at entelos.com (Dave Hilton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:37 2005 Subject: Help request: Impact printer by the digital group Message-ID: Practical Automation was indeed the hardware manufacturer. Lubrication of the pins is a tricky issue. Supposedly, there is lubricant in the inked ribbon and, as the pins strike, they are suficiently lubricated. *ANY* petroleum based lubricant will eventually boil off all the volotiles, leaving a sticky residue which is as good as glue so far as the pins are concerned. Not to mention that petroleum based lubes will rot the rubber rollers. All that said, I have successfully used projector oil in extremely small quantities: wash hands, rub 1 drop around the tips of my fingers, hold finger in front of print head, print all possible characters in one character space (print - backspace - print -etc etc etc) The electronics and the software components were all designed and executed by Dr. Robert Suding (the technical brains behind "the digital group". There is a web site "www.ultimatecharger.com" of Suding Associates, Inc. The writing sure reads like digital group documentation used to read! He was known to be big in amateur radio and amateur astronomy. You may be able to radio him - W0LMD. Have you tried the www.practicalautomation.com web site? Dosen't the "ATX 38" Kiosk Printer look familiar - even today? Dave Hilton Staff System Administrator entelos(r) Foster City, CA "Linux is like a wigwam - No Gates, no Windows, Apache inside." -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Bryan Blackburn Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 4:37 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Help request: Impact printer by the digital group Hi all, I am in the process of restoring a 96 column impact printer sold by the digital group around 1977. (See my progress at: http://members.cox.net/oldcomp3/dgp/dgprinter.shtml) The first question I have is about the print head: Does anyone have any idea what, if anything, is the proper lubricant for a print head? What little lubricant I found on the heads felt like it might be a silicone grease of some kind. I have no idea if this was original lubricant or not. Labels I have found on other printers warn against oiling the print head, stating that the heads are lifetime oiled at time of manufacture. Next, I wonder if anyone on the list might have any information on the printer itself, which appears to have been manufactured by Practical Automation Inc., of Shelton Conn., or on the digital group electronics. Any ideas? -Bryan From artgames at nycap.rr.com Thu Oct 23 08:39:05 2003 From: artgames at nycap.rr.com (Art Mallet - Artfromny - formerly A218@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:37 2005 Subject: RFQ Fluke pods Message-ID: <001b01c3996b$08a8daa0$cbce4142@Art> Hi I saw a vectorlist mention that you had Fluke pods. Please quote for quantity 2 - 9000A-8085 quantity 2 - 9000A-6809 Please include air insured shipping to US zip 12118. Payment will be made in certified funds in advance of shipping. Thank you Art Mallet Art NOTE: The tax message below applies only to items that I am selling NOT items that I am buying or have bought or won on eBay. If I have posted an item for sale or this email is in reference to an item that I have for sale, NY State sales tax of 7.25% applies to all sales shipped to a NY State address or picked up at my warehouse. From artgames at nycap.rr.com Thu Oct 23 08:46:35 2003 From: artgames at nycap.rr.com (Art Mallet - Artfromny - formerly A218@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:37 2005 Subject: Fluke pods - request for quote, revised request Message-ID: <004601c3996c$133dc9c0$cbce4142@Art> Please quote for the below items in any quantity you may have up to 2 each. I am also looking for "closeout" deals on larger quantities of Fluke pods in bulk, assorted numbers. quantity 2 - 9000A-8085 pods quantity 2 - 9000A-6809 pods Please note - I need the pods themselves not just the manuals Please include air insured shipping to US zip 12118. Payment will be made in certified funds in advance of shipping. Thank you Art Mallet From PLancashire at columbia.com Thu Oct 23 11:23:45 2003 From: PLancashire at columbia.com (Lancashire, Pete) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:37 2005 Subject: Dust covers Message-ID: <88A237F0F2A83949BB50CA3CFB577B37CE11BA@US-TRILLIUM.columbia.csc> where i live there was (now out of biz) a place that made vinyl auto seat covers, for small items like you mentioned, the cost was about $10-$15 each. After they went of biz, I made my own. But you have to get a good sewing machine :) -pete -----Original Message----- From: TeoZ [mailto:teoz@neo.rr.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 8:40 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Dust covers What is the best material for making dusk covers for computers? I want to make covers for my 8/16 bit computers like the Amiga 500/1200 Atari 1040ST, C64c, C128, Tandy 1000HX, etc. From fritz_aus_dem_hause_chwolka at t-online.de Thu Oct 23 16:06:31 2003 From: fritz_aus_dem_hause_chwolka at t-online.de (Fritz Chwolka) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:37 2005 Subject: Al K's site? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20031023105138.007e4c20@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <1ACmeG-1LkDT60@fwd06.sul.t-online.com> On Thu, 23 Oct 2003 10:51:38 -0400, Joe wrote: > Anybody know what's wrong with Al Kossow's website (www.spies.com/aek/)? >It's been down for a couple of days now. > > Joe > I don't know but an copy maybe at: http://web.archive.org/web/20021122105542/www.spies.com/~aek/ Greetings from Fritz Chwolka > www.alterechner.de < From 1buckwheat at earthlink.net Fri Oct 24 01:59:54 2003 From: 1buckwheat at earthlink.net (Rick Adams) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:37 2005 Subject: Northgate keyboard Message-ID: <000801c399fc$6e097df0$0101a8c0@cl3252744a> Hey, do you still have the Northgate keyboard? I'd be interested in purchasing if it you did. Thanks. Rick Adams From general at aztecfreenet.org Fri Oct 24 19:47:10 2003 From: general at aztecfreenet.org (JAMES R. CARTER) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:37 2005 Subject: AT&T 6310 PC Message-ID: <200310250047.h9P0lA8G016714@aztec2.aztecfreenet.org> I have an AT&T 6310 personal computer I'd like to restore. Unfortunately I have no documentation at all. The machine works, but I'm not sure its drives and cards are original. I have no idea what the (unlabeled) motherboard jumpers do. If anyone on the list has information about this machine I would very much like to communicate with them. Initial questions: What were the original hard drives and floppy drives? What, in detail, were the original cards? What are the functions of the motherboard jumpers? Thanks in advance, Jim Carter From aloerchner at hotmail.com Sun Oct 26 00:27:14 2003 From: aloerchner at hotmail.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Axel_L=F6rchner?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:37 2005 Subject: Software for Data I/O 29a Message-ID: Hi Lance, I came across your name while searching the web for Data I/O 29a. I have had such a unit for several years, but have been unable to locate the software to drive it. It seems to me that it is a DOS application. Would you have the software available? -Axel- From blrab at polson.net Sun Oct 26 13:48:37 2003 From: blrab at polson.net (Bob Bushnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:37 2005 Subject: Kaypro 10 or Kaypro II Message-ID: <000801c39bfa$26621fc0$3cb8e7ce@ronan.net> Dear People: What's your asking price for a working Kaypro 10? What's your asking price for a working Kaypro II, with CPM OS on disks? Physical condition not important, but it should work. I live in NW Montana. Very familiar with the Kaypro machines. Thanks, Bob Bushnell blrab@polson.net From curt at atarimuseum.com Mon Oct 27 08:11:23 2003 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (AHS Mail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:37 2005 Subject: MCM/70 : first "laptop"? References: <3F93C2AD.5831.DA86F4D@localhost> Message-ID: <001f01c39c94$33ce3230$1e02a8c0@WNYC1145744> are there photo's anywhere? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stan Sieler" To: Sent: Monday, October 20, 2003 1:10 PM Subject: MCM/70 : first "laptop"? > Hi, > > My candidate for the first "laptop" is the MCM/70, from 1973. > > It was an 8008 computer, with APL in ROM, a one line > 32-character video display, dual cassettes for mass storage, > internal batteries (so it could run "on your lap" for a bit :), > and "virtual memory" via the casettes. > > Some more info at: > http://www.yorku.ca/yfile/archive/index.asp?Article=1044 > http://www.cs.yorku.ca/~zbigniew/MCM_col.html > > I got a phone call yesterday from a guy who owns a working MCM/70 > ... that he bought new in 1975. > Sadly (for me :), he doesn't want to part with it :( > He confirmed that it could run for a short while on batteries. > > The MCM/70 was announced in 1973. I'm not sure of the actual > first shipping date, but his was received in Jan 1975. > (The Computer History Museum's MCM/70 is dated 1974 on the display > card.) > > > Misc notes about the MCM/70 from the guy... > > He ordered his MCM/70 in August, 1974 ... and started threatening > legal action in December ... that got him a machine in January 1975. > (I'm not 100% sure of the months.) > > This makes me wonder: did the machine *ever* ship in 1973 or 1974, > or did it first ship in 1975? > > He said that if the batteries were low, powering on the machine > often resulted in a failure in the power supply. He reduced the > problem by (1) adding a 10-ohm resistor (somewhere unknown); and > (2) switching to a different kind of battery pack (instead of the > individual batteries). > > > Did I mention that he doesn't want to sell it? > > I'm working with him on trying to copy/scan some of the material > he has about the computer (including original advertisements). > > Stan > > From curt at atarimuseum.com Mon Oct 27 08:11:48 2003 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (AHS Mail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:37 2005 Subject: MCM/70 : first "laptop"? References: <3F93C2AD.5831.DA86F4D@localhost> Message-ID: <002401c39c94$42e9b050$1e02a8c0@WNYC1145744> ooops, nevermind I found it on that 2nd link. Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stan Sieler" To: Sent: Monday, October 20, 2003 1:10 PM Subject: MCM/70 : first "laptop"? > Hi, > > My candidate for the first "laptop" is the MCM/70, from 1973. > > It was an 8008 computer, with APL in ROM, a one line > 32-character video display, dual cassettes for mass storage, > internal batteries (so it could run "on your lap" for a bit :), > and "virtual memory" via the casettes. > > Some more info at: > http://www.yorku.ca/yfile/archive/index.asp?Article=1044 > http://www.cs.yorku.ca/~zbigniew/MCM_col.html > > I got a phone call yesterday from a guy who owns a working MCM/70 > ... that he bought new in 1975. > Sadly (for me :), he doesn't want to part with it :( > He confirmed that it could run for a short while on batteries. > > The MCM/70 was announced in 1973. I'm not sure of the actual > first shipping date, but his was received in Jan 1975. > (The Computer History Museum's MCM/70 is dated 1974 on the display > card.) > > > Misc notes about the MCM/70 from the guy... > > He ordered his MCM/70 in August, 1974 ... and started threatening > legal action in December ... that got him a machine in January 1975. > (I'm not 100% sure of the months.) > > This makes me wonder: did the machine *ever* ship in 1973 or 1974, > or did it first ship in 1975? > > He said that if the batteries were low, powering on the machine > often resulted in a failure in the power supply. He reduced the > problem by (1) adding a 10-ohm resistor (somewhere unknown); and > (2) switching to a different kind of battery pack (instead of the > individual batteries). > > > Did I mention that he doesn't want to sell it? > > I'm working with him on trying to copy/scan some of the material > he has about the computer (including original advertisements). > > Stan > > From waltje at pdp11.nl Mon Oct 27 08:36:54 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:37 2005 Subject: MCM/70 : first "laptop"? In-Reply-To: <3F93C2AD.5831.DA86F4D@localhost> Message-ID: On Mon, 20 Oct 2003, Stan Sieler wrote: > My candidate for the first "laptop" is the MCM/70, from 1973. > > It was an 8008 computer, with APL in ROM, a one line > 32-character video display, dual cassettes for mass storage, > internal batteries (so it could run "on your lap" for a bit :), > and "virtual memory" via the casettes. Uhm... given the power usage specs of those days, I assume those batteries were just enough so you could run from wall socket A to wall socket B with the power plug? :-] > I got a phone call yesterday from a guy who owns a working MCM/70 > ... that he bought new in 1975. > Sadly (for me :), he doesn't want to part with it :( > He confirmed that it could run for a short while on batteries. How long? > The MCM/70 was announced in 1973. I'm not sure of the actual > first shipping date, but his was received in Jan 1975. > (The Computer History Museum's MCM/70 is dated 1974 on the display > card.) What was the typical application for the machine? I kinda know what one can do with APL, but I assume it also had a set of apps that came with it, or that were orderable for it? > Did I mention that he doesn't want to sell it? Yes :) Cheers, Fred (typing away on his HiNote w/Win98SE - thanks, Dan !) -- Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist Visit the VAXlab Project at http://www.pdp11.nl/VAXlab/ Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Sunnyvale, CA, USA From pat at purdueriots.com Mon Oct 27 09:16:56 2003 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:37 2005 Subject: PDP-11/23 Message-ID: <200310271016.56703.pat@purdueriots.com> Hey, I just got a random email from someone that's selling one of these over in the UK. As that's a bit far for me, and the machine looks like it's in awesome shape, I though I'd send the info to the list incase someone on the other side of the pond was interested. The seller claims it "was never used", and it looks fairly well loaded. I've got no affiliation to the seller, just passing this on. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Their message: Hi, Just to let you know that we are selling a Digital DEC PDP 11/23 machine on eBay and we thought you may be interested. ?If you would like to have a look, please click on the following: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2568418690 Many Thanks for your time, Richard J. Brain ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ From fernande at internet1.net Mon Oct 27 09:14:29 2003 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:37 2005 Subject: How do _you_ move equipment? What "tools" do you use? In-Reply-To: <88A237F0F2A83949BB50CA3CFB577B37011C786C@US-TRILLIUM.columbia.csc> References: <88A237F0F2A83949BB50CA3CFB577B37011C786C@US-TRILLIUM.columbia.csc> Message-ID: <3F9D3655.3010503@internet1.net> Do you mean they were Samoan, Samoa? Somalian are from Somalia, in Africa. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Lancashire, Pete wrote: > A fun note was the three guys that showed up where Somlians (sp?), > originally From curt at atarimuseum.com Mon Oct 27 09:31:50 2003 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:37 2005 Subject: vintage 3.5" disk drives References: Message-ID: <000c01c39c9f$712aa860$1a02a8c0@starship1> Did Seagate and/or Shugart get into making 3.5" floppy disk drives around 83/84??? Anyone have pics of very early 3.5" disk drives? Curt From geneb at deltasoft.com Mon Oct 27 10:23:17 2003 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:37 2005 Subject: RFQ Fluke pods In-Reply-To: <001b01c3996b$08a8daa0$cbce4142@Art> Message-ID: Oh look, the idiot trap caught another one.... g. On Thu, 23 Oct 2003, Art Mallet - Artfromny - formerly A218@aol.com wrote: > Hi I saw a vectorlist mention that you had Fluke pods. > > Please quote for > > quantity 2 - 9000A-8085 > quantity 2 - 9000A-6809 > > Please include air insured shipping to US zip 12118. Payment will be made > in > certified funds in advance of shipping. Thank you > > Art Mallet > > Art > NOTE: The tax message below applies only to items that I am selling NOT > items that I am buying or have bought or won on eBay. > If I have posted an item for sale or this email is in reference to an item > that I have for sale, > NY State sales tax of 7.25% applies to all sales shipped to a NY State > address or > picked up at my warehouse. > > From vcf at siconic.com Mon Oct 27 10:39:39 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:38 2005 Subject: More photos: digital group impact printer restoration In-Reply-To: <3F9CDF88.3060802@cox.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 27 Oct 2003, Bryan Blackburn wrote: > If anyone is interested, I have added another page to the photos of my > digital group printer restoration. (Is anyone interested? :) Yes! This is amazing work! The documenting of the project while you go is very cool as well. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From david_comley at yahoo.com Mon Oct 27 10:39:35 2003 From: david_comley at yahoo.com (David Comley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:38 2005 Subject: Digital BA363 Personal Storage Shelf Message-ID: <20031027163935.53000.qmail@web13503.mail.yahoo.com> I pulled one of these out of the trash a while back and finally got around to trying it this weekend. I installed three disks but it seems unresponsive. Maybe that's why it was in the trash - but before I give up on it is there anything unusual about the SCSI interface on these devices ? None of the disks responded to a SCSI probe. -Dave __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spears http://launch.yahoo.com/promos/britneyspears/ From vcf at siconic.com Mon Oct 27 10:54:04 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:38 2005 Subject: How do _you_ move equipment? What "tools" do you use? In-Reply-To: <88A237F0F2A83949BB50CA3CFB577B37011C786C@US-TRILLIUM.columbia.csc> Message-ID: On Tue, 21 Oct 2003, Lancashire, Pete wrote: > A fun note was the three guys that showed up where Somlians (sp?), > originally from Hawaii. They got out all their moving stuff, but then > took a look at the organ, two of them just picked it up with out any > stress and carried it into the truck .. scary :) I think you mean Samoans, which would mean they were from Samoa ;) Yeah, those guys are not to be trifled with. It must be the poi. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From waltje at pdp11.nl Mon Oct 27 11:32:26 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:38 2005 Subject: hmm... new batch of search engine mailers :) Message-ID: Hiyall, Is it me, or does this *often* happen right after the weekend? --f -- Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist Visit the VAXlab Project at http://www.pdp11.nl/VAXlab/ Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Sunnyvale, CA, USA From tosteve at yahoo.com Mon Oct 27 11:43:38 2003 From: tosteve at yahoo.com (steven) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:38 2005 Subject: This just in-- 3 Exidy Sorcerers w/ S-100 expansion, monitor w/ floppies In-Reply-To: <000801c399fc$6e097df0$0101a8c0@cl3252744a> Message-ID: <20031027174338.41814.qmail@web40902.mail.yahoo.com> Very cool-- Three Sorcerers, Two S-100 expansion cases, One monitor/floppy combo. Now, if I only had some 'cartridges' to run...! Steve __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spears http://launch.yahoo.com/promos/britneyspears/ From fmc at reanimators.org Mon Oct 27 11:42:20 2003 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:38 2005 Subject: sticky Sony 3.5" drive In-Reply-To: <200310201905.h9KJ5LTR018411@king.mcs.drexel.edu> (Vassilis Prevelakis's message of "Mon, 20 Oct 2003 15:05:21 -0400 (EDT)") References: <200310201905.h9KJ5LTR018411@king.mcs.drexel.edu> Message-ID: <200310271742.h9RHgK9m084097@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Vassilis Prevelakis wrote: > Since pictures are always better, check these instructions made > by Mike Davis > http://www.msdsite.com/forums/tutorial.php?tu_action=view&uid=500 Thanks Vassilis, Tony, Joe, and Mike. I've since figured out that the top head is damaged (it's still there but its mounting has been stressed so it doesn't sit quite right). Oh well, it's not all bad, I have other working units for use and I guess I now have a known-bad drive to on which to practice repair techniques, now all I need is time! -Frank McConnell From micheladam at theedge.ca Mon Oct 27 11:49:05 2003 From: micheladam at theedge.ca (Michel Adam) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:38 2005 Subject: Fluke pods - request for quote, revised request Message-ID: <91ebc8dee7.8dee791ebc@theedge.ca> We have 2 of each available, priced at one gazillion dollars each. Our bulk discount starts at quantity 3, and is one half a gazillion dollars. Please contact us for advanced payment to our Cayman Island bank. Tony (T) Soprano ----- Original Message ----- From: "Art Mallet - Artfromny - formerly A218@aol.com" Date: Thursday, October 23, 2003 7:46 am Subject: Fluke pods - request for quote, revised request > > Please quote for the below items in any quantity you may have up > to 2 each. > I am also looking for "closeout" deals on larger quantities of > Fluke pods in > bulk, assorted numbers. > > quantity 2 - 9000A-8085 pods > quantity 2 - 9000A-6809 pods > > Please note - I need the pods themselves not just the manuals > > Please include air insured shipping to US zip 12118. Payment will > be made > in > certified funds in advance of shipping. Thank you > > Art Mallet > > From ggs at shiresoft.com Mon Oct 27 12:25:47 2003 From: ggs at shiresoft.com (Guy Sotomayor) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:38 2005 Subject: How do _you_ move equipment? What "tools" do you use? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1067279147.2402.14.camel@nazgul.pao.digeo.com> On Mon, 2003-10-20 at 15:19, JP Hindin wrote: > Greetings; > I am faced with picking up a sizeable IBM some hours from where I live in > the next few weeks. > What I had originally planned to do has fallen through, and now I am left > trying to work out how best to lift what has been estimated as 800+lbs of > 1978 IBM. > > I have a decent half-ton pickup truck, its more than plenty for carrying > this machine home. The magic trick is - how do I get the heavy sucker into > the deck? > I was planning on "borrowing" another truck with a lift-gate on it, to > lift the IBM up to the pickup deck height, and then waffling it into the > pickup. That has fallen through, and actually renting one is, as far as > I'm concerned, cost prohibitive ($78 + 29c/mile + $150 deposit). Gee I'm getting to be pretty good at moving stuff! I've rented 7-8 trucks in the last 6 months or so to move equipment (one just this last weekend). A lift gate makes it so much easier. However you can make due without one in a pinch. A *sturdy* ramp and a come-along (hand winch) are required. In a pinch you can use heavy plywood as the ramp but make sure it is supported underneath otherwise it'll break. If you have enough folks, you can "lever" it up into the bed of the truck but this requires a fair amount of "lift" -- you'll need a number of strong people. I also use ratcheting tie down straps to secure the load. I have not had any problems with loads coming loose with those (as opposed to ropes). Whatever you do make sure you think about safety! Be prepared to "let it drop" if things get out of control! Make sure that you have at least a couple of people around in case something bad happens -- it's no fun being pinned under a heavy piece of equipment with no one around. -- TTFN - Guy From CordaAJ at NSWC.NAVY.MIL Mon Oct 27 13:30:25 2003 From: CordaAJ at NSWC.NAVY.MIL (Corda Albert J DLVA) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:38 2005 Subject: How about a PDP-10? (RE: A real PDP-8 that you can hang on your w all!) Message-ID: <7B4C28C84831D211BFA200805F9F345605A16DE3@nswcdlvaex04.nswc.navy.mil> Any chance you guys might try do this for a PDP-10? ;-) A KA10 front panel would be a bit bigger, but would provide plenty of room for the more complex emulator circuitry... And yes, I know there are software-based '10 emulators, but for some reason I can't explain, I've always desired a hardware-based 10 emulator (like the XKL, only affordable). -al- -acorda@1bigred.com -----Original Message----- From: bob@jfcl.com [mailto:bob@jfcl.com] Sent: Friday, October 24, 2003 4:07 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: A real PDP-8 that you can hang on your wall! Many of you have already heard of the SBC6120, our single board PDP-8/E clone that you can build from a kit. The SBC6120 now has a complete lights and switches front panel, and the entire assembly, including a hard disk drive, is about 9" by 15" and 2 1/2" thick and can be framed and hung on the wall like a painting. You can see a photo of Debee with one at http://www.sparetimegizmos.com/Hardware/images/Debee%20and%20FP6120.jpg Everything is fully functional; all the lights and switches work as you'd expect and the SBC6120 is able to run most PDP-8 software including FOCAL and OS/8. You can read all about it on our web site at http://www.sparetimegizmos.com/Hardware/SBC6120-2.htm and http://www.sparetimegizmos.com/Hardware/SBC6120_Front_Panel.htm The entire project is open source, and you can download everything there is to know about the SBC6120 and front panel, including manuals, schematics, and firmware source code, from http://www.sparetimegizmos.com/Download.htm If you like what you see then you can have one for your own wall, and we'd be happy to sell you a kit of parts to help you build one. Visit our web store for ordering information http://www.sparetimegizmos.com/Store.htm Thanks, Bob Armstrong From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Mon Oct 27 13:51:22 2003 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:38 2005 Subject: Manuals up for grabs Message-ID: <200310271151220391.1EA68DB6@192.168.42.129> I've placed a number of 'classic' manuals up on E-pay. Among them are the DHV11 Technical Manual, the Installation and System Management guides for RSTS/E 9.7, the user's manual for the VAXstation 3100/M38 and for the VT220, and other nice goodies. You can do a 'Search by Seller' on 'bftbell' (sans quotes) if you're interested. Thanks much. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com ARS KC7GR (Formerly WD6EOS) since 12-77 -- kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com "Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati" (Red Green, aka Steve Smith) From ss at allegro.com Mon Oct 27 14:40:58 2003 From: ss at allegro.com (Stan Sieler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:38 2005 Subject: Available: Televideo TS-806/20 computer Message-ID: <3F9D125A.29213.323DAB57@localhost> Hi, Available: Televideo TS-806/20 computer Location: Cupertino / San Jose, CA ("Bay Area"). Cost: free (but pay for shipping). Condition: unknown Comes with: Apple III monitor, nothing else (nada) From teoz at neo.rr.com Mon Oct 27 16:53:49 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:38 2005 Subject: Tandy 1000 HX Problem Message-ID: <000f01c39cdd$2ffe3440$3d7ca418@neo.rr.com> I recently recieved a Tandy 1000 HX in beat up condition that I gutted to upgrade my mint condition version. I removed the memory upgrade card and installed it into my stock unit to give 640K memory. I installed one of the 3.5" drives from the beat up unit into my machine (2 drives there now) but the computer doesnt recognise it. Is there a jumper on the unit or software that is needed to setup the 2nd 3.5" internal drive? I connected the gutted unit up and it still tries to find the 2nd drive I removed so its not autodetected. From ggs at shiresoft.com Mon Oct 27 16:50:56 2003 From: ggs at shiresoft.com (Guy Sotomayor) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:38 2005 Subject: WTD: RK05 controllers. In-Reply-To: <002301c39aac$89f6ef60$1a02a8c0@starship1> References: <3.0.6.32.20031022174553.0081c100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <002301c39aac$89f6ef60$1a02a8c0@starship1> Message-ID: <1067295055.2402.33.camel@nazgul.pao.digeo.com> On Fri, 2003-10-24 at 21:00, Curt vendel wrote: > Hi everyone, > > I'm looking for both a Qbus RK05 controller and the Unibus controllers > which I think are a 4 board set. I am also looking for an RLV11 RL02 > Unibus controller as well. If anyone has any for sale, please contact me, > thanks. The Unibus RK05 controller is an RK11. There are a number of different flavors (RK11-C & RK11-D). The -C is a big beast with lots-o-flip-chips. The -D is a special 4 slot backplane with 4 cards. The cards are relatively easy to come by. The backplanes are more difficult to find (because I guess folks figured it was a regular backplane -- NOT!!). There are 2 RL02 controllers for Q-bus. The 18-bit controler is 2 boards. The 22-bit controller is 1. Which one are you looking for? -- TTFN - Guy From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Mon Oct 27 17:07:38 2003 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:38 2005 Subject: Software for Data I/O 29a In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200310271507380120.1F5A3D97@192.168.42.129> Hi, Lance, *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 26-Oct-03 at 01:27 Axel L?rchner wrote: >Hi Lance, > >I came across your name while searching the web for Data I/O 29a. I have >had such a unit for several years, but have been unable to locate the >software to drive it. It seems to me that it is a DOS application. Would >you have the software available? The 29A does not depend on any sort of external software. Like its later successor, the 29B, it is fully operable by its on-board keypad. The only thing you'd use the serial port for is to transfer files to and from the unit. To know how to do that, your best bet is to track down a technical manual on the 29 series, because Data I/O used their own custom handshaking and protocol. The only programmers from Data I/O that have a built-in menuing system, for use with a 'dumb' terminal or PC, were the UniSite, 2900, 3900, and other such units that did not have a keypad. Some, such as the 'ChipLab,' require special software running under a DOS or Windows environment. Good luck. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com ARS KC7GR (Formerly WD6EOS) since 12-77 -- kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com "Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati" (Red Green, aka Steve Smith) From dundas at caltech.edu Mon Oct 27 17:51:51 2003 From: dundas at caltech.edu (John A. Dundas III) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:38 2005 Subject: GE 73 bulbs for RL02 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks to all how replied to my request for help. To summarize the responses, there are a few web sites that claimed to have these orderable: Leave it to Tim Shoppa (thanks Tim!) to find a place in my back yard that has them: Empire Electronic Distributors 37 E. Union Pasadena, CA 91103 626.796.0121 empire@jps.net They had them for $0.35/ea Much thanks to all... John From pietstan at rogers.com Mon Oct 27 18:45:07 2003 From: pietstan at rogers.com (Stan Pietkiewicz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:38 2005 Subject: Destinations in Charleston, SC Message-ID: <3F9DBC13.4010800@rogers.com> Now that I've finally got a bit of a vacation coming up, are there any worthwhile classic (translation: DEC-collector) destinations or sources in Charleston or vicinity? From liste at artware.qc.ca Mon Oct 27 18:00:32 2003 From: liste at artware.qc.ca (liste@artware.qc.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:38 2005 Subject: Dealing with the Press In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20031024073233.007f5420@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On 24-Oct-2003 Joe wrote: > At 10:03 PM 10/23/03 -0700, Sellam Ismail wrote: >>On Thu, 23 Oct 2003, Mike wrote: >>> Anything that I should make a point to emphasize? >> >>Computer collectors are weird and should be avoided. > > Yeah, just give them beer and pizza and all your old computers and > leave them alone! Whatever you do, DON'T LOOK THEM STRAIGHT IN THE EYE! This will provoke their attack response. And nothing is more fearsom then a computer collector on a rapage. -Philip From ernestls at attbi.com Mon Oct 27 19:21:37 2003 From: ernestls at attbi.com (Ernest) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:38 2005 Subject: at&t 6310 In-Reply-To: <3F954FC1.66C8@emr.net> Message-ID: <000401c39cf1$d61bbfa0$6401a8c0@ernest> > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] > On Behalf Of James R. Carter > Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2003 8:25 AM > To: cctech@classiccmp.org > Subject: at&t 6310 > > Hello, > I've been trying for weeks to obtain some basic information about an > AT&T 6310 personal computer I'm trying to restore. You seem to have > one! All I need to know is what the following original parts were: > > hard drive > drive controller card > floppy drives (make, model, and face color) > > Any help you may be able to offer would be _greatly_ appreciated. > It's > amazing how little information or support there is for AT&T/Olivetti > computers on the web or from AT&T, Olivetti, or NCR. Yeah, there isn't much info out there. One reason, I think, is because these systems are almost completely proprietary AND they are damned hard to work on. For instance, if you want to remove the hard drive, you have to basically disassemble the entire system... and doing that is a real tedious and time consuming chore. Plus, they are put together in a really funky way. The motherboard is on one side of the base plate, and the Bus is on the other -linked via a wrap around ribbon cable. I have no idea what they were thinking when they designed this system but one thing seems clear; they wanted it to be as heavy as they could possibly make it. I have in my hands here, a hard drive/card unit from a 6300, which is very similar to your 6310. The specs are: Seagate ST238R MFM drive (10meg) with a matched Seagate MFM controller card (Rom Version 1.7) Keep in mind that these early MFM drives required a matched controller card. Not any old MFM card will work. Another thing to consider is that that these cards might have additional code in their ROMS specific to the AT&T 6300 series. The 6300 was not IBM compatible so it had a lot of patches and such for running MS DOS 3.3 for example. The chances of you finding a working 5.25 MFM drive and card outside of another 6300 series system are slim. The 6300 is far more common than the 6310 or 6312, so in my opinion, it would be worth it to cannibalize a 6300 to find parts for a 6310. I don't know the manufacturer of the 5.25" floppy drive but you can bet that it was an "off" model drive. I have pics of my 6300 and 6312 on my web site at http://12.228.5.66 From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Oct 27 19:25:15 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:38 2005 Subject: hmm... new batch of search engine mailers :) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031027202515.007f32d0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> No, it's happening constantly. Some days 80% of the messages are crap from people that found an OLD message and are looking for something for free. Joe At 06:32 PM 10/27/03 +0100, you wrote: >Hiyall, > >Is it me, or does this *often* happen right after the weekend? > >--f > > >-- >Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist >Visit the VAXlab Project at http://www.pdp11.nl/VAXlab/ >Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ >Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Sunnyvale, CA, USA > > From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Oct 27 20:05:26 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:38 2005 Subject: vintage 3.5" disk drives In-Reply-To: <000c01c39c9f$712aa860$1a02a8c0@starship1> References: <000c01c39c9f$712aa860$1a02a8c0@starship1> Message-ID: <20031027174731.B88021@newshell.lmi.net> On Mon, 27 Oct 2003, Curt vendel wrote: > Did Seagate and/or Shugart get into making 3.5" floppy disk drives around > 83/84??? Anyone have pics of very early 3.5" disk drives? D'ya mean, as in prototypes? The first Shugart production 3.5" drive was the SA300. ONE of the early users was Gavilan, who put their own bezel on it. Previously, Gavilan had used a 3" drive. The Shugart SA350 was double sided. (It could be used in a Gavilan, using MS-DOS 2.11 J or above, and the Gavilan faceplate would fit) Seagate did not make floppies. OB_History: Alan Shugart started Shugart Associates, and developed floppy drives. He sold Shugart Associates (to Xerox?), and then started working on hard drives, with a new company, Shugart Technology. ST506, ST412, etc. Xerox, who had purchased Shugart Associates, considered that to be trademark infringement, since they now owned the name Shugart (MORAL: don't name your company after yourself, or selling it loses you your own name!) He changed the company name to Seagate. From ian_primus at yahoo.com Mon Oct 27 20:07:09 2003 From: ian_primus at yahoo.com (Ian Primus) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:38 2005 Subject: Can anyone ID this Digital board? In-Reply-To: <01b101c39b5c$ffe1f200$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <6FFE4198-08EB-11D8-B04B-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> On Saturday, October 25, 2003, at 09:03 PM, John Allain wrote: >> ...find a complete system for about $50. > > There are about 14 MicroVAX 3100's posted > on eBay now for $0.99 plus $32 shipping. > > I'd get one now if I needed it. > The things called VAX Servers and MicroVAXes are > superior to VAXstations, especially with the 3100 series. > > John A. > OK, MicroVAXen For the life of me, I can't seem to find the machines you are referring to on eBay. I tried both active and completed items. Their search engine has been a little screwy lately though, I have noticed searches not turning up auctions that I know are there. Do you have a link by chance? Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com From vcf at siconic.com Mon Oct 27 20:23:04 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:38 2005 Subject: PDP-11/23 In-Reply-To: <200310271016.56703.pat@purdueriots.com> Message-ID: I hate when morons like this spam me in such a manner. It's also a violation of eBay's rules (not like they'd do anything about it though). On Mon, 27 Oct 2003, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > Hey, I just got a random email from someone that's selling one of these > over in the UK. As that's a bit far for me, and the machine looks like > it's in awesome shape, I though I'd send the info to the list incase > someone on the other side of the pond was interested. The seller claims > it "was never used", and it looks fairly well loaded. I've got no > affiliation to the seller, just passing this on. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Their message: > > Hi, > > Just to let you know that we are selling a Digital DEC PDP 11/23 machine > on eBay and we thought you may be interested. ?If you would like to have > a look, please click on the following: > > http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2568418690 > > Many Thanks for your time, > Richard J. Brain > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Pat > -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Mon Oct 27 20:24:46 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:38 2005 Subject: hmm... new batch of search engine mailers :) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 27 Oct 2003, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > Is it me, or does this *often* happen right after the weekend? Sure, if you always read your CC mail right after the weekend :) It seems to come randomly, but definitely in spurts. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From PLancashire at columbia.com Mon Oct 27 10:50:58 2003 From: PLancashire at columbia.com (Lancashire, Pete) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:38 2005 Subject: Fastest Drum printer Message-ID: <88A237F0F2A83949BB50CA3CFB577B37011C7880@US-TRILLIUM.columbia.csc> Last night got into a good old days conversion about printers. I'm trying to find out what was the fastest drum printer. My belief is it was a model made by Burroughs where in times long ago i had a great time, ah still can remember knowing the status of a job by the squeal of the 5500's power supplies, sorry i slipped into memory. If I remember there was a printer, that in 1975 was considered old, but it was either 1,100 or 1,400 LPM with at Uppercase drum. I also remember the printer controller being about the same size as the printer. Character registration sucked, but if all you wanted was a something that would get trashed, it sure was quick. If you wanted quality output there was a new chain/train printer that was as good if not better then the 1403. Anyone can help ? -pete From dave at mitton.com Mon Oct 27 10:52:34 2003 From: dave at mitton.com (Dave Mitton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:38 2005 Subject: FA: S-100 system, H19, SWTPC TVT Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.2.20031027103213.0320e0b0@mail.comcast.net> I have placed the following items on eBay for auction: A working Heathkit H19 video terminal: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=51280&item=3055591307 An Integrand S-100 chassis with two CPU and floppy disk controllers, two Shugart 8-inch disk drives, and an assortment of support boards. This was a CBBS system in the late 1970s until some problems developed. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=4193&item=2762098884 And from the fixer-upper & parts shelf; a Southwest Technical Products, CT-1024, TV Typewriter. Not working, but a complete bit of history that someone could revive. Includes a TV Typewriter Cookbook, and Cheap Video Cookbook. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1247&item=2762098937 Thanks, Dave. From wgungfu at csd.uwm.edu Mon Oct 27 13:59:06 2003 From: wgungfu at csd.uwm.edu (Martin Scott Goldberg) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:38 2005 Subject: Looking for IMSAI 8080 Processor Card In-Reply-To: from "JP Hindin" at Oct 20, 2003 06:30:01 PM Message-ID: <200310271959.h9RJx6ta019971@alpha2.csd.uwm.edu> Just checking to see if anyone has an extra one or one they'd be able to part with in general that I could purchase/trade for. Need one to renovate an IMSAI I have that was missing the card when I recieved it. Marty From g.vanzundert at chello.nl Mon Oct 27 17:47:56 2003 From: g.vanzundert at chello.nl (Cor van Zundert) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:38 2005 Subject: IBM 5285 Message-ID: <000801c39ce4$bf53c2c0$6e02a8c0@helios> Hi there, My name is Cor van Zundert and I work for IBM. In the 80's I've been working on the IBM 5285, which has been used as a programmable data entry station. It worked with a Data Entry RPG programming language and was the first machine in history where data comunication (based on SNA) was programmable. From PLancashire at columbia.com Mon Oct 27 19:04:10 2003 From: PLancashire at columbia.com (Lancashire, Pete) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:38 2005 Subject: How do _you_ move equipment? What "tools" do you use? Message-ID: <88A237F0F2A83949BB50CA3CFB577B37CE11FD@US-TRILLIUM.columbia.csc> correct thats why the sp? :) going to be using these guys again .. the organ has to be moved from the basement to the ground floor, and I have to move a 6' enclosed rack into the basement. I just wish they didn't make it look so easy ! -pete -----Original Message----- From: Chad Fernandez [mailto:fernande@internet1.net] Sent: Monday, October 27, 2003 7:14 AM To: General@internet1.net; On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: How do _you_ move equipment? What "tools" do you use? Do you mean they were Samoan, Samoa? Somalian are from Somalia, in Africa. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Lancashire, Pete wrote: > A fun note was the three guys that showed up where Somlians (sp?), > originally From PLancashire at columbia.com Mon Oct 27 19:06:10 2003 From: PLancashire at columbia.com (Lancashire, Pete) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:38 2005 Subject: How do _you_ move equipment? What "tools" do you use? Message-ID: <88A237F0F2A83949BB50CA3CFB577B37CE11FE@US-TRILLIUM.columbia.csc> oh and when doing jobs on the side, there company name is Big Al's .. and Al is big ! -----Original Message----- From: Chad Fernandez [mailto:fernande@internet1.net] Sent: Monday, October 27, 2003 7:14 AM To: General@internet1.net; On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: How do _you_ move equipment? What "tools" do you use? Do you mean they were Samoan, Samoa? Somalian are from Somalia, in Africa. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Lancashire, Pete wrote: > A fun note was the three guys that showed up where Somlians (sp?), > originally From PLancashire at columbia.com Mon Oct 27 18:59:07 2003 From: PLancashire at columbia.com (Lancashire, Pete) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:38 2005 Subject: vintage 3.5" disk drives Message-ID: <88A237F0F2A83949BB50CA3CFB577B37CE11FB@US-TRILLIUM.columbia.csc> I use to have before the fire, a box full of about 50 different 3 1/2's My eon's ago i was responsible for evaluating 3 1/2's for Tektronix. Three different types, and you should have seen all the rev's Sony went through. The part I remember the most is the convincing the now loosing camps use to try to put down the Sony design. I'll see if I still have some of the doc's and such, if i do, I'll put them on a web site. -pete -----Original Message----- From: Curt vendel [mailto:curt@atarimuseum.com] Sent: Monday, October 27, 2003 7:32 AM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: vintage 3.5" disk drives Did Seagate and/or Shugart get into making 3.5" floppy disk drives around 83/84??? Anyone have pics of very early 3.5" disk drives? Curt From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Oct 27 21:03:58 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:38 2005 Subject: How about a PDP-10? (RE: A real PDP-8 that you can hang on your w In-Reply-To: <7B4C28C84831D211BFA200805F9F345605A16DE3@nswcdlvaex04.nswc.navy.mil> from "Corda Albert J DLVA" at Oct 27, 2003 02:30:25 PM Message-ID: <200310280303.h9S33wq5024099@onyx.spiritone.com> > Any chance you guys might try do this for a PDP-10? ;-) A KA10 front > panel would be a bit bigger, but would provide plenty of > room for the more complex emulator circuitry... > > And yes, I know there are software-based '10 emulators, but for > some reason I can't explain, I've always desired a hardware-based > 10 emulator (like the XKL, only affordable). Unfortunalty the PDP-10 side of such things seems to be rather dead. Two people were working on an FPGA implementation. David G. Conroy got ITS to boot on the one he was building about a year ago, that's the last I've heard on his project. Neil Franklin doesn't appear to have worked on his in about four months http://neil.franklin.ch/Projects/PDP-10/ Your best bet for a tiny PDP-10 is a Mini-ITX based system running KLH10. Unfortunatly I don't know if there is anyway to interface a front panel. Zane From classiccmp at vintage-computer.com Mon Oct 27 21:20:00 2003 From: classiccmp at vintage-computer.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:38 2005 Subject: This just in-- 3 Exidy Sorcerers w/ S-100 expansion, monitor w/ floppies In-Reply-To: <20031027174338.41814.qmail@web40902.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <02fc01c39d02$5f0822d0$947ba8c0@p933> Very nice haul! Congratulations! What did they come with for software, if anything? Did you get docs? Do they work? Where can we go to see pictures? Sorry for all the questions. . . Erik Klein www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum The Vintage Computer Forum -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of steven Sent: Monday, October 27, 2003 9:44 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: This just in-- 3 Exidy Sorcerers w/ S-100 expansion,monitor w/ floppies Very cool-- Three Sorcerers, Two S-100 expansion cases, One monitor/floppy combo. Now, if I only had some 'cartridges' to run...! Steve __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spears http://launch.yahoo.com/promos/britneyspears/ From marvin at rain.org Mon Oct 27 21:53:35 2003 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:38 2005 Subject: Tandy 1000 HX Problem References: <000f01c39cdd$2ffe3440$3d7ca418@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: <3F9DE83F.7477FEBA@rain.org> Check the floppy disk cable and the drive select jumpers on the drive. Generally, the drive jumpers are set for disk 1 (of 0 - 3) and the floppy disk cable has a twist in it (don't confuse it with the MFM HD cable that also has a twist) with the drive at the end of the twist being the A drive. But there were exceptions :). TeoZ wrote: > > I recently recieved a Tandy 1000 HX in beat up condition that I gutted to upgrade my mint condition version. I removed the memory upgrade card and installed it into my stock unit to give 640K memory. I installed one of the 3.5" drives from the beat up unit into my machine (2 drives there now) but the computer doesnt recognise it. Is there a jumper on the unit or software that is needed to setup the 2nd 3.5" internal drive? I connected the gutted unit up and it still tries to find the 2nd drive I removed so its not autodetected. From n8uhn at yahoo.com Mon Oct 27 22:26:06 2003 From: n8uhn at yahoo.com (Bill Allen Jr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:38 2005 Subject: How do _you_ move equipment? What "tools" do you use? Message-ID: <20031028042606.40621.qmail@web40709.mail.yahoo.com> Sounds like you are trying to move an sys/34? i tried a uhaul truck in the past, only to find that the metal ramp is just wide enough to allow the casters to lock on the the sides of the ramp. also ibm casters only move when they want and thier direction of travel is never the way you want them to go. what works for me? lumber in the form of 8 foot 4 by 6 cant's, a good chain fall and a trailer that has the wheels on eather side of it - not under it (keeps the weight of the load from allowing the trailer bottom deck to set down on top of the tires) the bridgeport page is the best example of this type of move. the chain falls? i use a second chain that is looped around two casters and 2x4's as levers if needed - my wooden trailer has a 3 inch hole in the back which allows a chain to pass through it on it's way to the tongue which is then wrapped around it - the chain falls go on the trailer side of the chain to pull the heavy metal on the ramps and into the trailer a forklift is the best way to load/unload heavy ibm metal from the trailer, if the forks are long enough or one picks up tje machine by the power supply end - ditto for all the sys3x series. Bill Message: 4 Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 11:56:32 -0400 (EDT) From: vance@neurotica.com Subject: Re: How do _you_ move equipment? What "tools" do you use? To: JP Hindin Cc: cctalk@classiccmp.org On Mon, 20 Oct 2003, JP Hindin wrote: > I am faced with picking up a sizeable IBM some hours from where I live > in the next few weeks. What I had originally planned to do has fallen > through, and now I am left trying to work out how best to lift what has > been estimated as 800+lbs of 1978 IBM. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spears http://launch.yahoo.com/promos/britneyspears/ From dave at mitton.com Mon Oct 27 22:34:14 2003 From: dave at mitton.com (Dave Mitton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:38 2005 Subject: Testing undesired holds Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.2.20031027233214.032adbf0@mail.comcast.net> just a test... for Jay. From vcf at siconic.com Mon Oct 27 23:08:51 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:38 2005 Subject: Dealing with the Press In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 27 Oct 2003 liste@artware.qc.ca wrote: > > On 24-Oct-2003 Joe wrote: > > At 10:03 PM 10/23/03 -0700, Sellam Ismail wrote: > >>On Thu, 23 Oct 2003, Mike wrote: > >>> Anything that I should make a point to emphasize? > >> > >>Computer collectors are weird and should be avoided. > > > > Yeah, just give them beer and pizza and all your old computers and > > leave them alone! > > Whatever you do, DON'T LOOK THEM STRAIGHT IN THE EYE! This will provoke > their attack response. And nothing is more fearsom then a computer > collector on a rapage. I once ate my way through a chain link fence for an S-100 computer. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From curt at atarimuseum.com Tue Oct 28 00:05:35 2003 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:38 2005 Subject: vintage 3.5" disk drives References: <000c01c39c9f$712aa860$1a02a8c0@starship1> <20031027174731.B88021@newshell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <003e01c39d19$81448340$1a02a8c0@starship1> Fred, ah this is great dude!!! Now if I can just find some photo's of these beasties or even an actual unit, thanks again! Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Cisin" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Monday, October 27, 2003 9:05 PM Subject: Re: vintage 3.5" disk drives > On Mon, 27 Oct 2003, Curt vendel wrote: > > Did Seagate and/or Shugart get into making 3.5" floppy disk drives around > > 83/84??? Anyone have pics of very early 3.5" disk drives? > > D'ya mean, as in prototypes? > > The first Shugart production 3.5" drive was the SA300. > ONE of the early users was Gavilan, who put their own bezel on it. > Previously, Gavilan had used a 3" drive. > > The Shugart SA350 was double sided. (It could be used in a Gavilan, using > MS-DOS 2.11 J or above, and the Gavilan faceplate would fit) > > > Seagate did not make floppies. > > > OB_History: > Alan Shugart started Shugart Associates, and developed floppy drives. > He sold Shugart Associates (to Xerox?), and then started working on > hard drives, with a new company, Shugart Technology. ST506, ST412, > etc. Xerox, who had purchased Shugart Associates, considered that > to be trademark infringement, since they now owned the name Shugart > (MORAL: don't name your company after yourself, or selling it loses > you your own name!) He changed the company name to Seagate. > From tothwolf at concentric.net Tue Oct 28 01:05:59 2003 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:38 2005 Subject: eBay: SWTPC 6800 computer Message-ID: For those of you who have spare cash this month (I just got stuck with a $150+ shipping bill that should have been ~$60.00), there is a SWTPC 6800 computer up on ebay at: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2761984200 Starting bid is $300. Seems to have a fairly complete board set (though the system itself seems to have been modified somewhat). I'd guess that it had been used for some sort of data acquisition at some point. Not affiliated with seller, etc, etc. -Toth From classiccmp at crash.com Tue Oct 28 01:04:01 2003 From: classiccmp at crash.com (Steven M Jones) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:38 2005 Subject: Digital BA363 Personal Storage Shelf Message-ID: <200310280704.h9S741e16472@abort.crash.com> David Comley wrote: > > before I give up > on it is there anything unusual about the SCSI > interface on these devices ? None of the disks > responded to a SCSI probe. Nothing unusual about the outside of it. Normal old fashioned SCSI. I've got a couple of the BA353's, which are fast narrow and have HD50 connectors. Big flat thing with three bays side by side, the rightmost one of which can take a 5.25" device. Is what you've got a BA353, or is the BA363 different, like maybe a wide SCSI bus? I don't know the model for the PC mid-tower sized desktop units with room for a couple drives... --S. From pat at purdueriots.com Tue Oct 28 01:09:58 2003 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:38 2005 Subject: hmm... new batch of search engine mailers :) In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20031027202515.007f32d0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20031027202515.007f32d0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <200310280209.58730.pat@purdueriots.com> Joe declared on Monday 27 October 2003 08:25 pm: > No, it's happening constantly. Some days 80% of the messages are crap > from people that found an OLD message and are looking for something for > free. > > Joe > At 06:32 PM 10/27/03 +0100, you wrote: > >Hiyall, > > > >Is it me, or does this *often* happen right after the weekend? > > > >--f GAH! Do you not realize that Jay is probably moderating these onto the list, so that someone might see them and help the person out? I doubt these people are so clueless that they're going through the trouble to sign up to the list, and post a message that sounds like they think they're talking to just one person.' Remember, the list is here to try to HELP people with classic computer stuff, which includes giving/selling stuff to people that need/want it. It annoys the hell out of me everytime I see this topic pop up, after Jay has already explained what's going on. I'm sorry for the rant, but seeing this topic come up week after week really gets old. That being said, Jay: It'd probably be nice if the people realized they were posting to a list when they tried to 'reply' to a message in the archives. Would it be possible to make the mailto: link read "mailing list" or something, instead of being the poster's name with the email going to the list? ATM, how it's set up, it's easy to think you're sending a message to a person, not a list of people. That's just my suggestion (and perhaps it'll help out with these weekly threads). -- Pat PLUG Vice President -- http://plug.purdue.org Slackware Linux -- http://slackware.com Purdue University Research Computing -- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs From finnegpt at purdue.edu Tue Oct 28 01:14:38 2003 From: finnegpt at purdue.edu (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:38 2005 Subject: Can anyone ID this Digital board? In-Reply-To: <6FFE4198-08EB-11D8-B04B-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> References: <6FFE4198-08EB-11D8-B04B-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200310280214.38043.finnegpt@purdue.edu> Ian Primus declared on Monday 27 October 2003 09:07 pm: > On Saturday, October 25, 2003, at 09:03 PM, John Allain wrote: > >> ...find a complete system for about $50. > > > > There are about 14 MicroVAX 3100's posted > > on eBay now for $0.99 plus $32 shipping. > > > > I'd get one now if I needed it. > > The things called VAX Servers and MicroVAXes are > > superior to VAXstations, especially with the 3100 series. > > > > John A. > > OK, MicroVAXen > > For the life of me, I can't seem to find the machines you are referring > to on eBay. I tried both active and completed items. Their search > engine has been a little screwy lately though, I have noticed searches > not turning up auctions that I know are there. Do you have a link by > chance? That's because they've ended already: http://search-completed.ebay.com/search/ search.dll?GetResult&krd=1&ht=1&sortproperty=metaendsort&query=micro +vax&from=R8&completedonly=1 -- Pat PLUG Vice President -- http://plug.purdue.org Slackware Linux -- http://slackware.com Purdue University Research Computing -- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs From evan947 at yahoo.com Tue Oct 28 01:34:25 2003 From: evan947 at yahoo.com (evan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:38 2005 Subject: Dealing with the Press In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20031028073425.28322.qmail@web14005.mail.yahoo.com> Hello all, Regarding this discussion about dealing with the press, I feel compelled to reply, because (as some of you know) I'm a reporter AND a vintage computer collector. Of course I have to make a disclosure: the opinions I'm about to convey are solely my own, and when I'm on this email list, I do not represent my magazine (eWeek) or its publisher, Ziff-Davis. And now on with my opinion... It really saddens me to see so much negativity about how the press can only get it wrong, look for the bad news, or generally miss the point. I suppose that stems from the approach that "the media" includes everyone from The Wall Street Journal to Fox's "Entertainment Tonight" in the same boat. The reality is, as with any group of people or businesses, there will be a vocal minority who make the good majority look bad. In fact, local newspapers are still the heart of American journalism, and most do a superb at covering their regions and small towns, in a way that the AP or CNN never will be able to do. The comments about emphasizing the preservation angle, about these machines being the 'opposite' of business computing, and about the growing size of our vintage computing hobby are all very good ones. Another very important point to emphasize is the legacy integration angle. Everyone from the world's largest businesses to the one-man shops has some old data or peripheral lying around, which one day they may have to use. That requires people who can help. Moreover, when you explain this to a mainstream news reporter, focus on the angle of history repeating itself. Above all, make the best possible analogies that you can come up with. For example whenever I explain my collection to someone, I focus on how it's very similar to collectors of antique cars, furniture, art, stamps, etc., and that it only makes sense that one generation removed from computers first becoming a commodity, people would start to collect them. There were other comments that are really wrong. "Don't look them straight in the eye" is just silly. As a reporter, what I appreciate most is interviews that flow more like conversations. Also, "don't tell them more than they need to know" is off-base too. If I'm interviewing someone and the replies involve little eye contact and terse replies, THEN maybe I'd think they have something is amiss. Granted, sometimes too many details can overwhelm people, but that's a characteristic of over-zealous collectors, and it's entirely unfair to make the broad assumption that reporters are an idiotic breed who can't handle too many facts with accuracy. Remember, reporters wouldn't bother asking for an interview if they didn't care about the topic! Good reporters are experts , not incompetents, about juggling multiple, fast-incoming facts. The assertions that reporters "usually get them wrong anyway" and are "technically unsavvy idiots" is one really concerns me. Granted, I'm an exception, because I was a computer nerd BEFORE becoming a reporter. But again, I want to stress this: it's not an inherent trait of reporters that facts sometimes get mangled; think of yourselves when you first started collecting computers -- all of us asked dumb questions, were slow to learn, etc. Something that I'm grateful to Sellam for is his explanations of how the VCF is to celebrate, not blindly hang onto, old technology. He's right, and the can't and won't grow if we (I'm speaking as a fellow collector now) treat non-hobbyists as clueless nimwits. I believe that would be the same spark that caused computers to be so difficult for the public to use in the first place. So an absolutely key thing to remember is, the people who we're preserving vintage computers FOR and the people who reporters SERVE are THE SAME PEOPLE. We reporters aren't out to 'get' anyone; we just want to understand and then share with the masses. (Any reporter who disagrees with that is discredible.) One final comment: ethical news publications do not let interviewees "check" stories before they're printed. As an ethical reporter myself, sometimes I'll fact-check very technical things and/or fact-check that I got someone's point of view correct. But no self-respecting journalist or publication would ever allow people to approve or pre-read a story. Yes, we make mistakes sometimes, as does everyone. However when someone accepts an interview they have to trust that the reporter is a professional at getting facts correct. I'm sure parts of my above comments are a bit jarbled. I won't deny that this email is somewhat reactionary; after all I see my fellow collectors attacking my profession. So in summary, if any of you are asked about your collections by a reporter, please just keep in mind that we reporters WANT to understand, to get it right, and to share your opinion with our readers. Personally I write an average of three to ten stories per week, and I haven't got time to ask people questions for which I don't care about the answers. Assume that a well-reported and well-written story can HELP you, but remember that reporters are people too. - Evan From luc at e2t.be Tue Oct 28 01:38:59 2003 From: luc at e2t.be (Luc Vande Velde) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:38 2005 Subject: at&t 6310 In-Reply-To: <3F954FC1.66C8@emr.net> Message-ID: Do you know their european model number? They were sold as Olivetti M2x over here. For the M24 and M28 I might have all you're looking for... gr. Luc -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]Namens James R. Carter Verzonden: dinsdag 21 oktober 2003 17:25 Aan: cctech@classiccmp.org Onderwerp: at&t 6310 Hello, I've been trying for weeks to obtain some basic information about an AT&T 6310 personal computer I'm trying to restore. You seem to have one! All I need to know is what the following original parts were: hard drive drive controller card floppy drives (make, model, and face color) Any help you may be able to offer would be _greatly_ appreciated. It's amazing how little information or support there is for AT&T/Olivetti computers on the web or from AT&T, Olivetti, or NCR. Thanks much, Jim Carter From pat at purdueriots.com Tue Oct 28 01:44:20 2003 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:38 2005 Subject: PDP-11/23 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200310280244.20626.pat@purdueriots.com> Vintage Computer Festival declared on Monday 27 October 2003 09:23 pm: > I hate when morons like this spam me in such a manner. It's also a > violation of eBay's rules (not like they'd do anything about it > though). Yeah, I know what you mean, it annoys me when people send me information about things I'm interested in... perhaps I just have a lower level of this than you do. I'm sorry if I offended you, Sellam, but this looked like a decent person trying to sell something, the start bid is about 1 Pound. There are people on this list that don't have the time or energy to watch eBay (on which there *are* good deals to be had at times) and I figured I'd let people know that this was out there. So, do you also 'hate the morons that spam you' to offer you something for your collection, or just the ones that have the items up for public sale? (I understand you have "some adversions" to eBay, but it DOES help some people.... me, for instance.) -- Pat > On Mon, 27 Oct 2003, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > > Hey, I just got a random email from someone that's selling one of > > these over in the UK. As that's a bit far for me, and the machine > > looks like it's in awesome shape, I though I'd send the info to the > > list incase someone on the other side of the pond was interested. > > The seller claims it "was never used", and it looks fairly well > > loaded. I've got no affiliation to the seller, just passing this on. > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >--- Their message: > > > > Hi, > > > > Just to let you know that we are selling a Digital DEC PDP 11/23 > > machine on eBay and we thought you may be interested. ?If you would > > like to have a look, please click on the following: > > > > http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2568418690 > > > > Many Thanks for your time, > > Richard J. Brain > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >--- > > > > Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ From waltje at pdp11.nl Tue Oct 28 03:02:43 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:38 2005 Subject: How do _you_ move equipment? What "tools" do you use? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 27 Oct 2003, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > stress and carried it into the truck .. scary :) > > I think you mean Samoans, which would mean they were from Samoa ;) > Yeah, those guys are not to be trifled with. It must be the poi. Yeah. And poi even tastes good, depending on how you make it, and compared to soy .. :) --f -- Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist Visit the VAXlab Project at http://www.pdp11.nl/VAXlab/ Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Sunnyvale, CA, USA From andyh at andyh-rayleigh.freeserve.co.uk Tue Oct 28 03:41:44 2003 From: andyh at andyh-rayleigh.freeserve.co.uk (Andy Holt) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:38 2005 Subject: Fastest Drum printer In-Reply-To: <88A237F0F2A83949BB50CA3CFB577B37011C7880@US-TRILLIUM.columbia.csc> Message-ID: <000801c39d37$b2a00720$4d4d2c0a@atx> All the main manufacturers in "the good old days" had top of the line impact printers of about 1200 lpm +/- a bit. The ICL (then ICT) 1905 when I started work had an Analex 1200 lpm drum printer - and this got transferred to a PDP-11/20 (courtesy of some clever work by our chief engineer) when the 1905 was replaced by a 1905E. The ICL 1905E had a model 1933 (ICL number - don't know who made it really) printer that was of similar spec. ISTR that in the same era the top IBM printer was a train printer that worked at 1100 lpm with a 64-character set or 1400 with a 48. Cannot remember what printers we had when we moved onto the Honeywell - think they were a pair of 1200 lpm train printers (by then we wanted a 96-character set) I don't think there were faster impact* printers available - most non-university sites preferred to go for multiple printers as a 1200 lpm device got through paper _fast_ and kept operators busy reloading. * we heard stories of the big mail-order companies having extremely fast (and extremely large!) printers from Xerox that not-infrequently caught fire if they had a paper jam, but were still cost-effective because of the speed when they _were_ working. Loading the paper on these devices aparrently required mechanical assistance as the roll (not box) was so heavy. Andy > I'm trying to find out what was the fastest drum printer. > > My belief is it was a model made by Burroughs where in times > long ago i had a great time, ah still can remember knowing > the status of a job by the squeal of the 5500's power supplies, > sorry i slipped into memory. > > If I remember there was a printer, that in 1975 was considered > old, but it was either 1,100 or 1,400 LPM with at Uppercase drum. > I also remember the printer controller being about the same > size as the printer. > From fernande at internet1.net Tue Oct 28 03:56:14 2003 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:38 2005 Subject: How do _you_ move equipment? What "tools" do you use? In-Reply-To: <88A237F0F2A83949BB50CA3CFB577B37CE11FD@US-TRILLIUM.columbia.csc> References: <88A237F0F2A83949BB50CA3CFB577B37CE11FD@US-TRILLIUM.columbia.csc> Message-ID: <3F9E3D3E.7000205@internet1.net> Lancashire, Pete wrote: > correct thats why the sp? :) But you didn't simply spell it wrong. You got a different people a whole hemisphere away, that have been known to be very skinny because of famine...... quite the opposite of what you meant, which is why it's so funny :-) Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From fernande at internet1.net Tue Oct 28 04:36:40 2003 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:38 2005 Subject: Dealing with the Press In-Reply-To: <20031028073425.28322.qmail@web14005.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20031028073425.28322.qmail@web14005.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3F9E46B8.2010509@internet1.net> evan wrote: > In fact, local newspapers are still the > heart of American journalism, and most do a superb at > covering their regions and small towns, in a way that > the AP or CNN never will be able to do. In my local paper they get stuff wrong all the time. Many times they don't spell correctly, either. > There were other comments that are really wrong. > "Don't look them straight in the eye" is just silly. That post was a bit confusing, but it wasn't talking about not looking the reporter in the eye. It was talking about not looking the crazy collector in the eye. I think it was Sellem that followed that up with chewing his way through a fence to get to a computer. I don't think anyone here thinks 100% of the press are idiots. It's just that the majority were English/Journalism majors, so they have a background very far removed from the background of most list members. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From teoz at neo.rr.com Tue Oct 28 05:20:54 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:39 2005 Subject: Tandy 1000 HX Problem References: <000f01c39cdd$2ffe3440$3d7ca418@neo.rr.com> <3F9DE83F.7477FEBA@rain.org> Message-ID: <007c01c39d45$8da1c7c0$3d7ca418@neo.rr.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marvin Johnston" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Monday, October 27, 2003 10:53 PM Subject: Re: Tandy 1000 HX Problem > > Check the floppy disk cable and the drive select jumpers on the drive. > Generally, the drive jumpers are set for disk 1 (of 0 - 3) and the > floppy disk cable has a twist in it (don't confuse it with the MFM HD > cable that also has a twist) with the drive at the end of the twist > being the A drive. But there were exceptions :). > After doing some more googling I figured out I needed the HX setup disk to update the EEPROM and the other drive came to life (had to download 1 small file from the net). The drive jumpers were just a slider that sets the drice from a to d (had those set correctly). The cable was flat and there are no twists in it. The ends are keyed so that you dont flip them and fry the motherboard/floppies (tandy drives are powered from the floppy interface cable). All in all its pretty easy to expand this system considering its age. From ian_primus at yahoo.com Tue Oct 28 07:01:58 2003 From: ian_primus at yahoo.com (Ian Primus) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:39 2005 Subject: Can anyone ID this Digital board? In-Reply-To: <200310280214.38043.finnegpt@purdue.edu> Message-ID: On Tuesday, October 28, 2003, at 02:14 AM, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > Ian Primus declared on Monday 27 October 2003 09:07 pm: >> On Saturday, October 25, 2003, at 09:03 PM, John Allain wrote: >>>> ...find a complete system for about $50. >>> >>> There are about 14 MicroVAX 3100's posted >>> on eBay now for $0.99 plus $32 shipping. >>> >>> I'd get one now if I needed it. >>> The things called VAX Servers and MicroVAXes are >>> superior to VAXstations, especially with the 3100 series. >>> >>> John A. >>> OK, MicroVAXen >> >> For the life of me, I can't seem to find the machines you are >> referring >> to on eBay. I tried both active and completed items. Their search >> engine has been a little screwy lately though, I have noticed searches >> not turning up auctions that I know are there. Do you have a link by >> chance? > > That's because they've ended already: > > http://search-completed.ebay.com/search/ > search.dll?GetResult&krd=1&ht=1&sortproperty=metaendsort&query=micro > +vax&from=R8&completedonly=1 OK, Now that's weird. When I try to load that page in Safari, I get no results, but if I load it in Internet Explorer, I get results. No wonder I couldn't find them. I had tried searching in the completed items, but didn't get those. What's going on with eBay? Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com From jrice54 at charter.net Tue Oct 28 07:07:21 2003 From: jrice54 at charter.net (James Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:39 2005 Subject: Tandy 1000 HX Problem In-Reply-To: <007c01c39d45$8da1c7c0$3d7ca418@neo.rr.com> References: <000f01c39cdd$2ffe3440$3d7ca418@neo.rr.com> <3F9DE83F.7477FEBA@rain.org> <007c01c39d45$8da1c7c0$3d7ca418@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: <3F9E6A09.2050605@charter.net> That applies only to the HX-Ex series. The 1000, 1000A, 1000Sx, 1000TX series use a standard floppy that is not powered from the floppy cable, but the drive jumpers are used to control drive select and the cable does not have the usual twist. Also, 1000 series systems of this vintage, use the keyboard controller chip to control the floppy drives and a defective floppy or cable will disable or destroy the keyboard interface (don't ask how I know). I happen to have the Tandy 1000 technical reference manual. I really need to scan it sometime. The Tandy systems are very easy to expand. The hardest part is the DMA chip on the memory board instead of the motherboard. one you have a memory=plus board, expansion is very easy. James TeoZ wrote: > >After doing some more googling I figured out I needed the HX setup disk to >update the EEPROM and the other drive came to life (had to download 1 small >file from the net). The drive jumpers were just a slider that sets the drice >from a to d (had those set correctly). The cable was flat and there are no >twists in it. The ends are keyed so that you dont flip them and fry the >motherboard/floppies (tandy drives are powered from the floppy interface >cable). > >All in all its pretty easy to expand this system considering its age. > > > > > -- http://webpages.charter.net/jrice54/classiccomp2.html From curt at atarimuseum.com Tue Oct 28 07:25:07 2003 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (AHS Mail) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:39 2005 Subject: vintage 3.5" disk drives References: <88A237F0F2A83949BB50CA3CFB577B37CE11FB@US-TRILLIUM.columbia.csc> Message-ID: <000601c39d56$e8206010$1e02a8c0@WNYC1145744> Pete, Thats great, thanks, if anyone has any SA300's for sale/trade please let me know, thanks. Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lancashire, Pete" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Monday, October 27, 2003 7:59 PM Subject: RE: vintage 3.5" disk drives > I use to have before the fire, a box full of about 50 different 3 1/2's > My eon's ago i was responsible for evaluating 3 1/2's for Tektronix. > > Three different types, and you should have seen all the rev's Sony > went through. > > The part I remember the most is the convincing the now loosing camps > use to try to put down the Sony design. > > I'll see if I still have some of the doc's and such, if i do, I'll put > them on a web site. > > -pete > > -----Original Message----- > From: Curt vendel [mailto:curt@atarimuseum.com] > Sent: Monday, October 27, 2003 7:32 AM > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: vintage 3.5" disk drives > > > Did Seagate and/or Shugart get into making 3.5" floppy disk drives > around > 83/84??? Anyone have pics of very early 3.5" disk drives? > > > > Curt > > From stevew at ka6s.com Tue Oct 28 20:38:45 2003 From: stevew at ka6s.com (stevew) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:39 2005 Subject: cctalk Digest, Vol 2, Issue 40 In-Reply-To: <200310280201.h9S21MgI048292@huey.classiccmp.org> References: <200310280201.h9S21MgI048292@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <200310281838.45736.stevew@ka6s.com> I can't tell you specifically, but I worked with the 6300's for some time back in the mid 80's. If I remember, they had a generic 10Mb drive, so I would imagine a Seagate 225 would be about the right generation. The floppies were black on the units we used, and were also otherwise unremarkable. The floppy controller I can't comment on, other than I would imagine an ISA controller would work with them. As far as I could tell, the 6300 series were essentially an IBM clone minus the basic. They ran MSDos and PCDos equally well. Steve Wilson From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue Oct 28 08:52:58 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:39 2005 Subject: list change References: <200310251241.IAA3822432@shell.TheWorld.com> Message-ID: <003101c39d63$30603380$c90510ac@HPLAPTOP> I'm trying to wade through all the issues and get them caught up. One change of note... Posts from non-subscribers are now rejected, not held for moderation. So if you have been posting as a non-member, you will have to join. Also - this bears repeating... do *NOT* subscribe to both lists! Subscribe to one or the other. If you want to post from multiple email addresses, you have to subscribe all of them (TO THE SAME LIST), and set all but one for "no email". Thanks for hanging in there folks. Jay West From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Tue Oct 28 08:56:08 2003 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:39 2005 Subject: list change In-Reply-To: <003101c39d63$30603380$c90510ac@HPLAPTOP> References: <200310251241.IAA3822432@shell.TheWorld.com> <003101c39d63$30603380$c90510ac@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <200310281457.JAA21508@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > Also - this bears repeating... do *NOT* subscribe to both lists! ...why not? I'd rather get two copies of stuff sent to both than no copies of stuff sent to the oen I'm not on; that's why I subscribed to both. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From teoz at neo.rr.com Tue Oct 28 08:59:56 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:39 2005 Subject: Tandy 1000 HX Problem References: <000f01c39cdd$2ffe3440$3d7ca418@neo.rr.com> <3F9DE83F.7477FEBA@rain.org> <007c01c39d45$8da1c7c0$3d7ca418@neo.rr.com> <3F9E6A09.2050605@charter.net> Message-ID: <000f01c39d64$26d21b20$3d7ca418@neo.rr.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Rice" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2003 8:07 AM Subject: Re: Tandy 1000 HX Problem > That applies only to the HX-Ex series. The 1000, 1000A, 1000Sx, 1000TX > series use a standard floppy that is not powered from the floppy cable, > but the drive jumpers are used to control drive select and the cable > does not have the usual twist. Also, 1000 series systems of this > vintage, use the keyboard controller chip to control the floppy drives > and a defective floppy or cable will disable or destroy the keyboard > interface (don't ask how I know). > > I happen to have the Tandy 1000 technical reference manual. I really > need to scan it sometime. > > The Tandy systems are very easy to expand. The hardest part is the DMA > chip on the memory board instead of the motherboard. one you have a > memory=plus board, expansion is very easy. > > James > A HD interface and maybe a standard serial port would be nice. An external 5.25 drive would make it easier to load the older software. Easy expansion and cheap expansion on the HX dont go together. I would imagine the special plus boards are hard to find and relatively expensive? From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue Oct 28 09:00:23 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:39 2005 Subject: 'moderator approval' Re: cctech Digest, Vol 2, Issue 26 References: Message-ID: <004d01c39d64$394e5070$c90510ac@HPLAPTOP> I believe the problem with cctech members posts being held for moderation on cctalk (as they automatically get gated there) has been fixed. please let me know if it continues! Jay ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Ross" To: Sent: Friday, October 24, 2003 11:36 AM Subject: 'moderator approval' Re: cctech Digest, Vol 2, Issue 26 > Ummm why am I seeing this? I didn't send the offending message and I'm sure > this wasn't intended for the list.... and I don't subscribe to cctalk > anyway! > > Mike > http://www.corestore.org > > >From: cctech-request@classiccmp.org > >Reply-To: cctech@classiccmp.org > >To: cctech@classiccmp.org > >Subject: cctech Digest, Vol 2, Issue 26 > >Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 12:01:41 -0500 (CDT) > >MIME-Version: 1.0 > >Received: from huey.classiccmp.org ([209.145.140.36]) by > >mc5-f26.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5600); Fri, 24 Oct 2003 > >10:02:31 -0700 > >Received: from huey.classiccmp.org (localhost [127.0.0.1])by > >huey.classiccmp.org (8.12.8p1/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h9OH14gI029703;Fri, 24 > >Oct 2003 12:01:41 -0500 (CDT)(envelope-from cctech-bounces@classiccmp.org) > >X-Message-Info: vAu4ZEtdRiin8eBT9NiqCriHHhjSd5+m > >Message-Id: <200310241701.h9OH14gI029703@huey.classiccmp.org> > >X-BeenThere: cctech@classiccmp.org > >X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 > >Precedence: list > >List-Id: General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only > >List-Unsubscribe: > >, > >List-Archive: > >List-Post: > >List-Help: > >List-Subscribe: > >, > >Sender: cctech-bounces@classiccmp.org > >Errors-To: cctech-bounces@classiccmp.org > >Return-Path: cctech-bounces@classiccmp.org > >X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 Oct 2003 17:02:32.0468 (UTC) > >FILETIME=[9D5CED40:01C39A50] > > > >Send cctech mailing list submissions to > > cctech@classiccmp.org > > > >To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > > http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctech > >or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > > cctech-request@classiccmp.org > > > >You can reach the person managing the list at > > cctech-owner@classiccmp.org > > > >When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > >than "Re: Contents of cctech digest..." > > > > > >Today's Topics: > > > > 1. Your message to cctalk awaits moderator approval > > (cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org) > > > > > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > >Message: 1 > >Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 22:54:45 -0500 > >From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > >Subject: Your message to cctalk awaits moderator approval > >To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > >Message-ID: > >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > > >Your mail to 'cctalk' with the subject > > > > Decrease your CPU temperature up to 20C! > > > >Is being held until the list moderator can review it for approval. > > > >The reason it is being held: > > > > Post by non-member to a members-only list > > > >Either the message will get posted to the list, or you will receive > >notification of the moderator's decision. If you would like to cancel > >this posting, please visit the following URL: > > > > > >http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/confirm/cctalk/4670ebe5ab8d23b380aa1bf2b3 3c42426bbd5797 > > > > > >End of cctech Digest, Vol 2, Issue 26 > >************************************* > > _________________________________________________________________ > Enjoy MSN 8 patented spam control and more with MSN 8 Dial-up Internet > Service. Try it FREE for one month! http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup > > From waltje at pdp11.nl Tue Oct 28 09:03:42 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:39 2005 Subject: DEC InfoServer vs. VAX 3100 [results] Message-ID: Hiyall, OK, here are the results of the Dutch jury :) We grabbed: - one InfoServer 150VXT - one VAXserver 3100 (low-profile model) and installed ESS V3.0 onto the InfoServer. That, obviously, works fine. We then cleaned up the 3100, and did a basic test on its functions... all OK, machine has 8MB, RZ23. Ripped out the extra I/O boards and the extra 4MB, to make it look more like a standard InfoServer machine. We put the IS ROMs into the 3100. Started up.. all looks good, just like it were an InfoServer. Next step: connect the hard disk (RZ24) of the InfoServer to the 3100. Set the boot flag to D0000000 (IS standard) and.. yay, off we go. We have an IS 3100 :) (actually, it reports itself as being an 150, so that all seems to work out fine.) We then connected another disk (a standard RZ23 104MB) and did an install of IS onto that disk. No problems there, either.. the ESS software assumes it's an IS150. So there. YES, IT WORKS. One caveat: this 3100 seems to want the console port MMJ port 3, unlike most others I have seen. ESS puts it on port 1, so, after booting the VAX into ESS, you have to re-plug the console terminal into port 1 to get to the ESS login prompt. Other than that, all works fine and as expected. Phase II now continues: will this also work on a VAXstation 3100, i.e., the other mainboard? Watch this channel for more updates... [this programme co-sponsored by The Coca-Cola Company] --fred -- Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist Visit the VAXlab Project at http://www.pdp11.nl/VAXlab/ Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Sunnyvale, CA, USA From rdd at rddavis.org Tue Oct 28 09:38:43 2003 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:39 2005 Subject: Dealing with the Press In-Reply-To: <3F9E46B8.2010509@internet1.net> References: <20031028073425.28322.qmail@web14005.mail.yahoo.com> <3F9E46B8.2010509@internet1.net> Message-ID: <20031028153300.GC307@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Chad Fernandez, from writings of Tue, Oct 28, 2003 at 05:36:40AM -0500: > In my local paper they get stuff wrong all the time. Many times they > don't spell correctly, either. Just the other day, the Baltimore Sun had two conflicting articles in it. One article, with drawings of Dilbert illustrating it, told of how dissatisfied American workers are with the workplace. In another article, on the front of the help-wanted section (the Career Builder section, which contains a page full of hogwash fed to the Sun by the media conglomerate that bought the Baltimore Sun, and is printed in other newspapers owned by the same corporate entity) is an article about workplace dissatisfaction, but, it shows that only 15% of workers are dissatisfied overall... but the numbers don't make any sense; here's what a chart on that page showed: Job dissatisfaction: overall: 15% (48.9% satisfied, 35.4% neutral (afraid to say?)) job security: 25% wages: 33.9% promotion policy: 46.4% vacation policy: 22.7% sick leave: 29.2% health plan: 35% Now then, how in the heck to they get 15% as an average, or mean, or whatever else they're using to obtain that figure, from the other figures? > I don't think anyone here thinks 100% of the press are idiots. It's > just that the majority were English/Journalism majors, so they have a > background very far removed from the background of most list members. Wouldn't it make much more sense for newspapers to just hire 7th graders to work part-time and pay them minimum wage, since the news is typically written on a 7th grade, or lower, reading level? Seriously, it makes no sense to hire English/Journalism majors to write articles on a 7th grade, or lower, reading level. If those English/Journalism majors can't make any use of what they supposedly learned in college, and, in the apparent majority of cases, they lack the skills to comprehend much of what they write about, be it politics, computers, employment, the usual propaganda or whatever else they're writing about, why employ them? Perhaps I've just answered my own question: the owners of the media apparently don't want to hire many people who have the ability to ask the right questions and think rationally, who might just upset the apple cart, so to speak, thus annoying too many politicians, shareholders, special interests, the political correctness police and various business entities such as land "development" scum. Can't have that, now, can we? The propaganda machines, whether working for the so-called left, right or center, mustn't be interfered with, right? Just my two-cents worth... -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue Oct 28 09:44:35 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:39 2005 Subject: Fw: DISK DRIVE FILTERS Message-ID: <00b501c39d6a$668c49b0$c90510ac@HPLAPTOP> Various people asked me for the source I got pricing from on air filters. Here's the scoop... ----- Original Message ----- From: BarbATairfilters@aol.com To: JWEST@classiccmp.org Sent: Monday, October 13, 2003 4:30 PM Subject: DISK DRIVE FILTERS WE HAVE ALL THE FILTERS THAT YOU ARE REQUESTING- I ONLY HAVE THE RK O5 IN STOCK BUT THE REST WOULD ONLY TAKE A FEW DAYS TO GET- HERE ARE THE PRICES HP 7906 73.50 EA. RK O5 67.00 EA. 6061/6060- 66.00 EA. HP 7900A- 74.00 EA. HP 7906D- 74.00 EA. PLEASE FEEL FREE TO GIVE ME A CALL IF I CAN DO ANYTHING ELSE FOR YOU- 520-624-2272 AND ASK FOR BARBARA PALMER- THANKS- From cb at mythtech.net Tue Oct 28 09:47:20 2003 From: cb at mythtech.net (chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:39 2005 Subject: list change Message-ID: >> Also - this bears repeating... do *NOT* subscribe to both lists! > >...why not? I'd rather get two copies of stuff sent to both than no >copies of stuff sent to the oen I'm not on; that's why I subscribed to >both. I was under the impression that if you wanted ALL the email, you subscribe to cctalk. It gets the Talk messages as well as the Tech messages. And if you wanted just the subset of messages that are strictly on topic, you subscribe to cctech. So if you subscribe to both, then every single Tech message you get will be a duplicate of a Talk message. -chris From jrice54 at charter.net Tue Oct 28 09:59:02 2003 From: jrice54 at charter.net (James Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:39 2005 Subject: Tandy 1000 HX Problem In-Reply-To: <000f01c39d64$26d21b20$3d7ca418@neo.rr.com> References: <000f01c39cdd$2ffe3440$3d7ca418@neo.rr.com> <3F9DE83F.7477FEBA@rain.org> <007c01c39d45$8da1c7c0$3d7ca418@neo.rr.com> <3F9E6A09.2050605@charter.net> <000f01c39d64$26d21b20$3d7ca418@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: <3F9E9246.70803@charter.net> I was never thrilled with either the HX or the EX. I've owned a ton of the A/SX/TX/HD versions. The low profile cases were just too restrictive on upgrades for my taste. TeoZ wrote: >----- Original Message ----- >From: "James Rice" >To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > >Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2003 8:07 AM >Subject: Re: Tandy 1000 HX Problem > > > > >>That applies only to the HX-Ex series. The 1000, 1000A, 1000Sx, 1000TX >>series use a standard floppy that is not powered from the floppy cable, >>but the drive jumpers are used to control drive select and the cable >>does not have the usual twist. Also, 1000 series systems of this >>vintage, use the keyboard controller chip to control the floppy drives >>and a defective floppy or cable will disable or destroy the keyboard >>interface (don't ask how I know). >> >>I happen to have the Tandy 1000 technical reference manual. I really >>need to scan it sometime. >> >>The Tandy systems are very easy to expand. The hardest part is the DMA >>chip on the memory board instead of the motherboard. one you have a >>memory=plus board, expansion is very easy. >> >>James >> >> >> > >A HD interface and maybe a standard serial port would be nice. An external >5.25 drive would make it easier to load the older software. Easy expansion >and cheap expansion on the HX dont go together. I would imagine the special >plus boards are hard to find and relatively expensive? > > > > > > From sanepsycho at globaldialog.com Tue Oct 28 10:25:13 2003 From: sanepsycho at globaldialog.com (Paul Berger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:39 2005 Subject: cctalk Digest, Vol 2, Issue 40 In-Reply-To: <200310281838.45736.stevew@ka6s.com> References: <200310280201.h9S21MgI048292@huey.classiccmp.org> <200310281838.45736.stevew@ka6s.com> Message-ID: <1067357525.3468.3.camel@azure.subsolar.com> On Tue, 2003-10-28 at 20:38, stevew wrote: > I can't tell you specifically, but I worked with the 6300's for some time back > in the mid 80's. If I remember, they had a generic 10Mb drive, so I would > imagine a Seagate 225 would be about the right generation. The floppies were > black on the units we used, and were also otherwise unremarkable. The floppy > controller I can't comment on, other than I would imagine an ISA controller > would work with them. > > As far as I could tell, the 6300 series were essentially an IBM clone minus > the basic. They ran MSDos and PCDos equally well. Actually they had a custom version of MS-DOS since they used a non-standard clock chip and has some other odd things. The things are a little odd being made by Olivetti which was an Italian Mfg. Paul From vcf at siconic.com Tue Oct 28 10:32:30 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:39 2005 Subject: PDP-11/23 In-Reply-To: <200310280244.20626.pat@purdueriots.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 28 Oct 2003, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > Vintage Computer Festival declared on Monday 27 October 2003 09:23 pm: > > I hate when morons like this spam me in such a manner. It's also a > > violation of eBay's rules (not like they'd do anything about it > > though). > > Yeah, I know what you mean, it annoys me when people send me information > about things I'm interested in... perhaps I just have a lower level of > this than you do. I'm sorry if I offended you, Sellam, but this looked > like a decent person trying to sell something, the start bid is about 1 > Pound. There are people on this list that don't have the time or energy > to watch eBay (on which there *are* good deals to be had at times) and I > figured I'd let people know that this was out there. > > So, do you also 'hate the morons that spam you' to offer you something for > your collection, or just the ones that have the items up for public sale? > (I understand you have "some adversions" to eBay, but it DOES help some > people.... me, for instance.) I hate when people take what I say as a personal attack against them. If someone wants to sell something to me, they can offer it to me directly. If someone just wants to let me know of their stupid eBay auction, I consider that spam. See the difference? I don't come knocking on your door telling you that I'm having a garage sale. And if you don't have the time or energy to watch eBay then they probably don't care either way. eBay has a search tool. And it's a violation of eBay's rules (not like they'd do anything about it though). -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Oct 28 10:31:58 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:39 2005 Subject: hmm... new batch of search engine mailers :) In-Reply-To: <200310280209.58730.pat@purdueriots.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20031027202515.007f32d0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20031027202515.007f32d0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031028113158.007e2c10@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 02:09 AM 10/28/03 -0500, Patrick wrote: >Joe declared on Monday 27 October 2003 08:25 pm: >> No, it's happening constantly. Some days 80% of the messages are crap >> from people that found an OLD message and are looking for something for >> free. >> >> Joe >> At 06:32 PM 10/27/03 +0100, you wrote: >> >Hiyall, >> > >> >Is it me, or does this *often* happen right after the weekend? >> > >> >--f > >GAH! > >Do you not realize that Jay is probably moderating these onto the list, so >that someone might see them and help the person out? Yes, And your point is? I doubt these >people are so clueless that they're going through the trouble to sign up >to the list, and post a message that sounds like they think they're >talking to just one person.' Your're completely wrong here. First, they DON'T sign up to the list. Second, most of them obviously think they're talking to one person and have no clue that they're talking to a list of 500+. All you have to do to determine that is to read the messages. > >Remember, the list is here to try to HELP people with classic computer >stuff, which includes giving/selling stuff to people that need/want it. >It annoys the hell out of me everytime I see this topic pop up, after Jay >has already explained what's going on. And it annoys me to have to wade through piles of messages from clueless people asking for or about things that happened so long ago that I don't even remember what the conversation was about or who posted it. on top of that, I've tried helping a number of them and 99% of them never have the courtesy to reply. One batch of CC list messages that I got this weekend had nine messages in it and SEVEN of them were this type messages. Frankly I get tired of the "I see you have an Altair. I'll take it if it's free and you're willing to pay the shipping and guarantee that it works." type messages. >I'm sorry for the rant, but seeing this topic come up week after week >really gets old. No more tiring than having to wade through endless piles of these messages everyday! If these people are seriously interested in classic computers then they should join the list and post their questions accordingly. This stuff of them just throwing out of date and irrelevent messages out on the list is for the birds! Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Oct 28 10:35:12 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:39 2005 Subject: sticky Sony 3.5" drive In-Reply-To: <200310271742.h9RHgK9m084097@daemonweed.reanimators.org> References: <200310201905.h9KJ5LTR018411@king.mcs.drexel.edu> <200310201905.h9KJ5LTR018411@king.mcs.drexel.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031028113512.007d1cf0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 09:42 AM 10/27/03 -0800, you wrote: >Vassilis Prevelakis wrote: >> Since pictures are always better, check these instructions made >> by Mike Davis >> http://www.msdsite.com/forums/tutorial.php?tu_action=view&uid=500 > >Thanks Vassilis, Tony, Joe, and Mike. I've since figured out that the >top head is damaged (it's still there but its mounting has been >stressed so it doesn't sit quite right). The good thing is that those drives are fairly easy to find. AFIK all the double sided drives used by HP are interchangable. Find on old 9133, 9153 or similar combination hard/floppy drive that has a bad hard drive in it and take the floppy drive from it. Joe Oh well, it's not all bad, I >have other working units for use and I guess I now have a known-bad >drive to on which to practice repair techniques, now all I need is time! > >-Frank McConnell > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Oct 28 10:46:14 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:39 2005 Subject: hmm... new batch of search engine mailers :) AND Re: RFQ Fluke pods In-Reply-To: References: <001b01c3996b$08a8daa0$cbce4142@Art> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031028114614.007d1cf0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> This is exactly the kind of non-member posting that I've been complaining about. Artfromny is not a computer collector, he is a well known seller of Fluke pods on E-bay. He doesn't want these for repairing classic computers. He wants them to sell on E-bay. Joe At 08:23 AM 10/27/03 -0800, Gene wrote: >Oh look, the idiot trap caught another one.... > >g. > > >On Thu, 23 Oct 2003, Art Mallet - Artfromny - formerly A218@aol.com wrote: > >> Hi I saw a vectorlist mention that you had Fluke pods. >> >> Please quote for >> >> quantity 2 - 9000A-8085 >> quantity 2 - 9000A-6809 >> >> Please include air insured shipping to US zip 12118. Payment will be made >> in >> certified funds in advance of shipping. Thank you >> >> Art Mallet >> >> Art >> NOTE: The tax message below applies only to items that I am selling NOT >> items that I am buying or have bought or won on eBay. >> If I have posted an item for sale or this email is in reference to an item >> that I have for sale, >> NY State sales tax of 7.25% applies to all sales shipped to a NY State >> address or >> picked up at my warehouse. >> >> > > From eric at brouhaha.com Tue Oct 28 11:35:18 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:39 2005 Subject: Dealing with the Press In-Reply-To: <20031028073425.28322.qmail@web14005.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20031028073425.28322.qmail@web14005.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <39056.64.169.63.74.1067362518.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> "evan" wrote: > In fact, local newspapers are still the > heart of American journalism, and most do a superb at > covering their regions and small towns, in a way that > the AP or CNN never will be able to do. Huh? Every time a newspaper run a story about *anything* I happen to know about (not just tech), the story is riddled with inaccurate, distorted, or just plain wrong information. I can hardly believe that I'm unique in this regard, so presumably for the stories that I don't have direct knowledge of, other readers who are would would have the same reaction. Thus I am forced to conclude that *everything* they publish is at that level of "quality", or at least such a high percentage that I'm disinclined to believe just about anything I read in the paper. If the newspaper said the sun was going to rise tomorrow, I'd want to find an another source to confirm it. That said, I think television news tends to be even worse. From jpl15 at panix.com Tue Oct 28 11:38:16 2003 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:39 2005 Subject: Dealing with the Press In-Reply-To: <20031028073425.28322.qmail@web14005.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20031028073425.28322.qmail@web14005.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: HI Evan - thanks for the measured response. I dont' think anyone was actually "attacking" your profession - and of course Journalism is not only a Porfession, it is one of the bulwarks of Democracy all over the world - a free press goes with a free people. Ok - Red/White/Blue soapbox - pretty K3WL, no? Speaking as a one-time (amateur) jounnalist - I published, by hand, by myself, the base newspaper for the Army unit I was attached to for a year or so, and I have many articles and papers published, including ongoing columns in magazines... but mainly speaking as a Consumer of the journalistic profession, in that I have been interviewed in print and video meida many, many times... it has been my personal experience, that, notwithstanding my efforts to simplfy, concretize, and present material in the format that I know it will be reproduced in (IE using my own small journalist-type experience) - still the majority of those pieces contained errors ranging from poor-detail-grasp to gross distortions of an incomprehensible nature - as if the reporter talked with me, wrote down (and sometimes recorded our conversation) and then got completely falling-down wasted before filing the copy - I dunno. I have a laot of them clipped - I'll show ya sometime. Even the magazine articles I wrote, though the editor was a technically-oriented person - and we proofread zealously - 'things' would just happen - paragraphs would get out of order - he'd paraphrase me when he had no idea what he was talking about (I'm not commmenting on his language or orthography skills here)... So my experiences over the last twenty years boils down to: "They always get something wrong" and it's heartbreaking when you're trying to do something good, like promote our endeavors with classic computers, and your own words get 'processed' and the resulting article conveys something utterly alien to what you meant. Of course, maybe you could ask for a retraction, but... it's too late at that point, and the issues I generally deal with do not warrant such. I am sorry you took offense - and I was one of the first responders to the original message, and I *knew* I was probably going to offend the several of us who work in the field - but my intention was to try and convey to someone who had no experience with these matters, the best way to handle an interview of that kind. I was afraid, as well, that the subtext of the original poster's interview was going to be 'ridicule the wacko' instead of 'promote the preservation of legacy computing' All this of course is just my 200 millidollar Cheers (and again, thanks!) JOhn From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue Oct 28 11:42:58 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:39 2005 Subject: list change References: Message-ID: <015c01c39d7a$ed1a4a80$033310ac@kwcorp.com> I had written.... > >> Also - this bears repeating... do *NOT* subscribe to both lists! to which Mouse replied... > >...why not? I'd rather get two copies of stuff sent to both than no > >copies of stuff sent to the oen I'm not on; that's why I subscribed to > >both. GRRRRRRRRR I'm gonna have an anurism. What you want to do is subscribe both email addresses to ONE list, and in your case, don't set the 'no-email' flag on one of them. Again, do NOT subscribe to BOTH lists. I'll put something in to "dedupe" the lists, so you CANT subscribe to both. If someone wants to subscribe to both lists, then they just don't get how it works, there's no reason to. Jay West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From david_comley at yahoo.com Tue Oct 28 12:15:41 2003 From: david_comley at yahoo.com (David Comley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:39 2005 Subject: Digital BA363 Personal Storage Shelf In-Reply-To: <200310280704.h9S741e16472@abort.crash.com> Message-ID: <20031028181541.47013.qmail@web13502.mail.yahoo.com> > Is what you've got a BA353, or is the BA363 > different, > like maybe a wide SCSI bus? I don't know the model > for > the PC mid-tower sized desktop units with room for a > couple drives... I misread the part number off the label - mine is in fact a BA353-AA, the pizza box shaped model with space for three drives inside, arranged horizonally. Some googling yielded a manual which lists the part numbers of the various disks that can be installed in it. More than likely I just have the wrong type of drives installed in it. -Dave __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spears http://launch.yahoo.com/promos/britneyspears/ From teoz at neo.rr.com Tue Oct 28 12:18:09 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:39 2005 Subject: Tandy 1000 HX Problem References: <000f01c39cdd$2ffe3440$3d7ca418@neo.rr.com> <3F9DE83F.7477FEBA@rain.org> <007c01c39d45$8da1c7c0$3d7ca418@neo.rr.com> <3F9E6A09.2050605@charter.net> <000f01c39d64$26d21b20$3d7ca418@neo.rr.com> <3F9E9246.70803@charter.net> Message-ID: <01ee01c39d7f$d8e37aa0$3d7ca418@neo.rr.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Rice" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2003 10:59 AM Subject: Re: Tandy 1000 HX Problem > I was never thrilled with either the HX or the EX. I've owned a ton of > the A/SX/TX/HD versions. The low profile cases were just too > restrictive on upgrades for my taste. For a normal computer I agree with you, but the HX reminded me of the all in one amiga 500/1200 series which I own and like. I really only got the unit to check out a few games that made use of the special tandy/pc jr audio and video modes. The HX takes up alot less space then the 8086/88 era full blown desktops. The CM-11 monitor I have for the unit isnt bad for being a CGA monitor. Most of the games I will use on this system will be floppy based anyway so having dual 720k 3.5" drives is a plus on storage for me , but also a pain when i have 360K original disks and no 5.25 drive. So while I probably wont go crazy looking for a HD controller for the HX , an external 5.25" drive is something I will be looking for. How did the full size 1000's compare to the IBM's of the time period anyway? My first IBM compatible was a new 286/12 packard bell with their crappy high dot pitch vga monitors. From gkicomputers at yahoo.com Tue Oct 28 12:26:46 2003 From: gkicomputers at yahoo.com (steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:39 2005 Subject: Dealing with the Press In-Reply-To: <20031028153300.GC307@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <20031028182646.87213.qmail@web12405.mail.yahoo.com> --- "R. D. Davis" wrote: > it makes no sense to hire English/Journalism majors > to write articles > on a 7th grade, or lower, reading level. sure it does, your confusing writing for a 7th grade level reading audience vs. the writings of a 7th grade audience. The propaganda machines, whether > working for the > so-called left, right or center, mustn't be > interfered with, right? Articles are written to further one agenda only, sales. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spears http://launch.yahoo.com/promos/britneyspears/ From dwight.elvey at amd.com Tue Oct 28 12:34:21 2003 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:39 2005 Subject: Dealing with the Press Message-ID: <200310281834.KAA27804@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "Chad Fernandez" > >evan wrote: >> In fact, local newspapers are still the >> heart of American journalism, and most do a superb at >> covering their regions and small towns, in a way that >> the AP or CNN never will be able to do. > >In my local paper they get stuff wrong all the time. Many times they >don't spell correctly, either. Hi I thought I might add that our local newspaper also creates many contrived stories. Although it would seem to the general reader that they were getting better coverage, most of the stories are misleading. Almost all of the quotes are taken from context and were not even originally spoken in terms of the created story. It is called freedom of the press. I tend to call it fraud. I don't consider fiction as useful information regardless of how close to home it is or what cause it promotes. Dwight > >> There were other comments that are really wrong. >> "Don't look them straight in the eye" is just silly. > >That post was a bit confusing, but it wasn't talking about not looking >the reporter in the eye. It was talking about not looking the crazy >collector in the eye. I think it was Sellem that followed that up with >chewing his way through a fence to get to a computer. > >I don't think anyone here thinks 100% of the press are idiots. It's >just that the majority were English/Journalism majors, so they have a >background very far removed from the background of most list members. > >Chad Fernandez >Michigan, USA > > From mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Tue Oct 28 12:33:42 2003 From: mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (der Mouse) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:39 2005 Subject: list change In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200310281837.NAA22636@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> >>> Also - this bears repeating... do *NOT* subscribe to both lists! >> ...why not? I'd rather get two copies of stuff sent to both than no >> copies of stuff sent to the oen I'm not on; that's why I subscribed >> to both. > I was under the impression that if you wanted ALL the email, you > subscribe to cctalk. It gets the Talk messages as well as the Tech > messages. Ah, that would explain why I'm seeing practically everything duplicated, even stuff that isn't visibly sent to more than one list. But...if I unsub from cctech, will I still remain able to post to it? Or is there something like LISTSERV's SET NOMAIL available? I'll have to dig up the subscribe notification and see what the magic incantation to get help is for this listmanager.... /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B From tosteve at yahoo.com Tue Oct 28 12:38:08 2003 From: tosteve at yahoo.com (steven) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:39 2005 Subject: This just in-- 3 Exidy Sorcerers w/ S-100 expansion, monitor w/ floppies In-Reply-To: <02fc01c39d02$5f0822d0$947ba8c0@p933> Message-ID: <20031028183808.41157.qmail@web40908.mail.yahoo.com> Unfortunately, no software, very minimal documentation, but they do work! Will post pictures this week, I hope. Steve. --- "Erik S. Klein" wrote: > Very nice haul! Congratulations! > > What did they come with for software, if anything? > Did you get docs? > Do they work? Where can we go to see pictures? > > Sorry for all the questions. . . > > Erik Klein > www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum > The Vintage Computer Forum > > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of > steven > Sent: Monday, October 27, 2003 9:44 AM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: This just in-- 3 Exidy Sorcerers w/ S-100 > expansion,monitor w/ > floppies > > Very cool-- > > Three Sorcerers, > Two S-100 expansion cases, > One monitor/floppy combo. > > Now, if I only had some 'cartridges' to run...! > > Steve > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spears > http://launch.yahoo.com/promos/britneyspears/ > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spears http://launch.yahoo.com/promos/britneyspears/ From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Tue Oct 28 13:26:37 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:39 2005 Subject: More photos: digital group impact printer restoration In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Vintage Computer > Festival > Sent: 27 October 2003 16:40 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: More photos: digital group impact printer restoration > > > On Mon, 27 Oct 2003, Bryan Blackburn wrote: > > > If anyone is interested, I have added another page to the photos of my > > digital group printer restoration. (Is anyone interested? :) > > Yes! This is amazing work! > > The documenting of the project while you go is very cool as well. You beat me to saying that - the before and after pictures are excellent! It's difficult to believe it's the same print mechanism..... cheers -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Tue Oct 28 13:30:05 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:39 2005 Subject: PDP-11/23 In-Reply-To: <200310271016.56703.pat@purdueriots.com> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Patrick Finnegan > Sent: 27 October 2003 15:17 > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Subject: PDP-11/23 > > > Hey, I just got a random email from someone that's selling one of these > over in the UK. As that's a bit far for me, and the machine looks like > it's in awesome shape, I though I'd send the info to the list incase > someone on the other side of the pond was interested. The seller claims > it "was never used", and it looks fairly well loaded. I've got no > affiliation to the seller, just passing this on. An unused 11/23? Nice! Pity I can't afford the price it's ultimately going to end up at :) -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From arcarlini at iee.org Tue Oct 28 13:33:57 2003 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:39 2005 Subject: How about a PDP-10? (RE: A real PDP-8 that you can hang on your wall!) In-Reply-To: <7B4C28C84831D211BFA200805F9F345605A16DE3@nswcdlvaex04.nswc.navy.mil> Message-ID: <000d01c39d8a$71646b40$5b01a8c0@athlon> > Any chance you guys might try do this for a PDP-10? ;-) I'm sure that Bob would enjoy the challenge but it might be nice to wait for the FPGA PDP-10 code to be done before starting. At least with the PDP-8 there was a ready-made CPU there as a starting point. And it was known to be "good enough" when it was chosen as the core of the system. Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From waltje at pdp11.nl Tue Oct 28 13:59:12 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:39 2005 Subject: DEC InfoServer vs. VAX 3100 [results] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hiyall, > OK, here are the results of the Dutch jury :) > > We grabbed: > > - one InfoServer 150VXT > - one VAXserver 3100 (low-profile model) > > ... > > So there. YES, IT WORKS. > > Phase II now continues: will this also work on a VAXstation > 3100, i.e., the other mainboard? > > Watch this channel for more updates... And the answer to that one: it looks like it is working. We can do the install and all that, but as soon as ESS takes over, we can no longer see anything ;-) Turns out that like with the VAXserver boxes, ESS blindly switches to port #0 for console. And on the VAXstations, this happens to be the Keyboard port. So.. heh. I'll have to find the pinouts of that port, and then make a temp. serial console cable that way, just to see if ESS is working on the VAXstation. But, all "sounds" were as expected, so it works, at least to a certain point... Cheers, Fred -- Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist Visit the VAXlab Project at http://www.pdp11.nl/VAXlab/ Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Sunnyvale, CA, USA From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Oct 28 14:02:01 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:39 2005 Subject: AT&T 6300s Re: cctalk Digest, Vol 2, Issue 40 In-Reply-To: <1067357525.3468.3.camel@azure.subsolar.com> References: <200310281838.45736.stevew@ka6s.com> <200310280201.h9S21MgI048292@huey.classiccmp.org> <200310281838.45736.stevew@ka6s.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031028150201.007fe100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 10:12 AM 10/28/03 -0600, you wrote: >On Tue, 2003-10-28 at 20:38, stevew wrote: >> I can't tell you specifically, but I worked with the 6300's for some time back >> in the mid 80's. If I remember, they had a generic 10Mb drive, so I would >> imagine a Seagate 225 would be about the right generation. The floppies were >> black on the units we used, and were also otherwise unremarkable. The floppy >> controller I can't comment on, other than I would imagine an ISA controller >> would work with them. IIRC the biggest problem with putting an aftermarket HD in them was making it fit. We ended up using HardCArds. >> >> As far as I could tell, the 6300 series were essentially an IBM clone minus >> the basic. They ran MSDos and PCDos equally well. > >Actually they had a custom version of MS-DOS since they used a >non-standard clock chip and has some other odd things. No, Stevew is correct. They ran standard IBM PC DOS with no problems. I had three friends of mine that bought the 6300s wehn they were new and we tested them thoroughly. The compatiblity was one of the major reasons that they bought the AT&Ts. The AT&T DOS also ran fine on the IBM PC. In fact, I kept a copy of that just to test for compatiblilty and I still have it. They were one of the few machines at the time that were truely "IBM compatible". One of my friends still has two of them. (I think the PSU is now dead in one or both of them.) The things are a >little odd being made by Olivetti which was an Italian Mfg. They were odd for a lot reasons. Their construction was very different from the IBMs. Standard PC cards would fit in them but not much else. They used 8086 CPU instead of an 8088. Their video resolution for the color system was higher than IBMs. The color monitor did not have an AC power cord. It got all of it's power via the interface cable (+150 VDC IIRC). The ones here had a lot of trouble with hard drives. We replaced all of the HDs with Hard Cards within about 2 years. Joe > >Paul > > > From dwight.elvey at amd.com Tue Oct 28 14:02:54 2003 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:39 2005 Subject: hmm... new batch of search engine mailers :) Message-ID: <200310282002.MAA27863@clulw009.amd.com> >From: Joe > ---snip--- > > >> >>Remember, the list is here to try to HELP people with classic computer >>stuff, which includes giving/selling stuff to people that need/want it. >>It annoys the hell out of me everytime I see this topic pop up, after Jay >>has already explained what's going on. > > And it annoys me to have to wade through piles of messages from clueless >people asking for or about things that happened so long ago that I don't >even remember what the conversation was about or who posted it. on top of >that, I've tried helping a number of them and 99% of them never have the >courtesy to reply. One batch of CC list messages that I got this weekend >had nine messages in it and SEVEN of them were this type messages. Frankly >I get tired of the "I see you have an Altair. I'll take it if it's free and >you're willing to pay the shipping and guarantee that it works." type >messages. > Hi The problem seems to be that there is some ulterior motive for these post. The fact that none reply indicates that these people are after something other than help from list members. What that is, I don't know. I have stopped replying to these until I know what they are up to. It could be some form of address gathering but the messages indicate that they took some time to compose the message ( although the content tends to lack knowledge of the subject ). It is possible that there is some kind of AI application harvesting addresses from replies. The messages have just enough similarity to let me believe this might be true. Dwight From jwstephens at msm.umr.edu Tue Oct 28 14:22:43 2003 From: jwstephens at msm.umr.edu (jim) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:39 2005 Subject: PDP-11/23 References: Message-ID: <3F9ED013.4405D3E7@msm.umr.edu> > And if you don't have the time or energy to watch eBay then they probably > don't care either way. eBay has a search tool. that sucks. it only searchs for full word matches and literal matches. I think that items that are rare (that is subjective) should be posted here, especially if in the poster's opinion, the rest of the list may not find it. Witness a friend getting an 129 keypunch recently on an auction because it was an "ibm machine for cards" or such idiocy. Did you guys spot it and not post it here? Would you have bid it up a bit over the $50 we have to pay for it? I doubt that such a find would be posted before the fact, but is interesting to see what is on the market, how much it is selling for, and to get ideas as to what to "search" for when looking the the mess that Ebay calls descriptions. I see the messages for these being maybe 1 out of 20 or even 1 out of 50 on this list, and are easily skipped if you are not interested. And I don't recall anyone putting up a junk one when they posted something, unless it was previously offered to the list to make an offer. Jim From allain at panix.com Tue Oct 28 14:28:20 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:39 2005 Subject: How do _you_ move equipment? What "tools" do you use? References: <20031021180227.24562.qmail@web13606.mail.yahoo.com><01a301c39807$12da5f40$033310ac@kwcorp.com> <015101c39814$622a19c0$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <016201c39d92$07bb3040$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > sent: Oct 21, 2003 3:46 PM > As it is I'm going to complete a device this Thursday > It's 5 pieces of steel welded in an archway configuration, > 8' high with a 1000 lb dead-lift rated come-along at the top The thing works! Total cost: <$100. Tested to lift a 140lb Eagle drive 6 feet high. Here it is floating a Cypher 800 comfortably. http://www.panix.com/~allain/pa280003s.jpg John A. From teoz at neo.rr.com Tue Oct 28 14:37:09 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:39 2005 Subject: hmm... new batch of search engine mailers :) AND Re: RFQ Fluke pods References: <001b01c3996b$08a8daa0$cbce4142@Art> <3.0.6.32.20031028114614.007d1cf0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <004201c39d93$429acb20$3d7ca418@neo.rr.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2003 11:46 AM Subject: Re: hmm... new batch of search engine mailers :) AND Re: RFQ Fluke pods > This is exactly the kind of non-member posting that I've been > complaining about. Artfromny is not a computer collector, he is a well > known seller of Fluke pods on E-bay. He doesn't want these for repairing > classic computers. He wants them to sell on E-bay. > > Joe > > > I agree non-members posts should not hit this list. But lets say this guy googled his way into finding an item he could sell and then joined the list so he could buy the items for resale, is that a bad thing? Judging from the few firesales that have happened in the last few months and the fact that the Vintage Computer Marketplace has come about are resellers discouraged from joining the list? I am just curious since the items I buy/get are for my personal collection and not for sale. I am typing this on a Northgate keyboard I got from a member here and have noticed some of the new messages asking about a northgate keyboard for sale from way back when (they fetch a few bucks on ebay). If I did have something in excess that I wanted to sell I would rather see it go to somebody who would use it (like list members) then somebody who is just going to flog it on ebay for a buck. TZ From kth at srv.net Tue Oct 28 14:52:08 2003 From: kth at srv.net (Kevin Handy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:39 2005 Subject: Dealing with the Press In-Reply-To: <39056.64.169.63.74.1067362518.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> References: <20031028073425.28322.qmail@web14005.mail.yahoo.com> <39056.64.169.63.74.1067362518.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <3F9ED6F8.6060305@srv.net> Eric Smith wrote: >"evan" wrote: > > >>In fact, local newspapers are still the >>heart of American journalism, and most do a superb at >>covering their regions and small towns, in a way that >>the AP or CNN never will be able to do. >> >> > >Huh? Every time a newspaper run a story about *anything* I happen >to know about (not just tech), the story is riddled with >inaccurate, distorted, or just plain wrong information. I can >hardly believe that I'm unique in this regard, so presumably >for the stories that I don't have direct knowledge of, other >readers who are would would have the same reaction. Thus I am >forced to conclude that *everything* they publish is at that >level of "quality", or at least such a high percentage that I'm >disinclined to believe just about anything I read in the paper. > >If the newspaper said the sun was going to rise tomorrow, I'd want >to find an another source to confirm it. > >That said, I think television news tends to be even worse. > > How about a local paper that frequently hyphenates the word "the". Every article, no matter how long, is continued on another page, and the page listed in "continued on xxx" is rarely the correct page number, if the continuation exists. The continued section is frequently continued again, and again. You will find the same article printed twice in one section, sometimes side by side, with different captions. They also, apparently, never use a spell checker. Then, you get to the content... From cpg at aladdin.de Tue Oct 28 15:12:34 2003 From: cpg at aladdin.de (Christian Groessler) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:39 2005 Subject: are there any Hauppauge 4860 motherboard owners? Message-ID: <87znfl844w.fsf@aladdin.de> Hi, the Hauppauge 4860 motherboard holds 2 processors, one i486 and one i860. I've written a tool to run programs on the i860 that I want to share, and I'm also looking for other users of the board. You can find the loader tool at ftp://ftp.groessler.org/pub/chris/i860/hauppauge_4860/loader-0.50.tar.gz . regards, chris From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Oct 28 15:09:43 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:39 2005 Subject: Dealing with the Press In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20031028130204.Y5312@newshell.lmi.net> > > Whatever you do, DON'T LOOK THEM STRAIGHT IN THE EYE! This will provoke > > their attack response. And nothing is more fearsom then a computer > > collector on a rapage. On Mon, 27 Oct 2003, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > I once ate my way through a chain link fence for an S-100 computer. Was that on a "rapage"? with Somalian or Samoan helpers, eating fence? NOTE: always open all fences, gates, and doors, and then STAND BACK when Sellam is collecting! I've watched him stuff multiple cubic yards of boxes into a Honda. From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Oct 28 15:15:07 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:39 2005 Subject: vintage 3.5" disk drives In-Reply-To: <003e01c39d19$81448340$1a02a8c0@starship1> References: <000c01c39c9f$712aa860$1a02a8c0@starship1> <20031027174731.B88021@newshell.lmi.net> <003e01c39d19$81448340$1a02a8c0@starship1> Message-ID: <20031028131000.T5312@newshell.lmi.net> On Tue, 28 Oct 2003, Curt vendel wrote: > Fred, > ah this is great dude!!! Now if I can just find some photo's of these > beasties or even an actual unit, thanks again! I gave all of my SA3x0 drives to Roger, along with the Gavilans. 'course they do tend to trickle out of the woodwork, anyway. I sold some early Sony drives at a VCF years ago, and I have no idea where the rest of them are. The Shugart ones were not significantly different from any other 3.5" drives from the days when they were the height of a "half height" 5.25" drive. The Sony drives were much more interesting. "2/3 height", 600 RPM at 500K data transfer rate, etc. From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue Oct 28 15:11:47 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:39 2005 Subject: hmm... new batch of search engine mailers :) In-Reply-To: Patrick Finnegan "Re: hmm... new batch of search engine mailers :)" (Oct 28, 2:09) References: <3.0.6.32.20031027202515.007f32d0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <200310280209.58730.pat@purdueriots.com> Message-ID: <10310282111.ZM17244@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Oct 28, 2:09, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > That being said, Jay: It'd probably be nice if the people realized they > were posting to a list when they tried to 'reply' to a message in the > archives. Would it be possible to make the mailto: link read "mailing > list" or something, instead of being the poster's name with the email > going to the list? ATM, how it's set up, it's easy to think you're > sending a message to a person, not a list of people. That's just my > suggestion (and perhaps it'll help out with these weekly threads). I agree :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue Oct 28 15:26:36 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:39 2005 Subject: list change In-Reply-To: der Mouse "Re: list change" (Oct 28, 9:56) References: <200310251241.IAA3822432@shell.TheWorld.com> <003101c39d63$30603380$c90510ac@HPLAPTOP> <200310281457.JAA21508@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Message-ID: <10310282126.ZM17250@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Oct 28, 9:56, der Mouse wrote: > > Also - this bears repeating... do *NOT* subscribe to both lists! > > ...why not? I'd rather get two copies of stuff sent to both than no > copies of stuff sent to the oen I'm not on; that's why I subscribed to > both. Because it's not two lists. It's two views of the same list -- everything posted to cctech is automatically seen by cctalk; everything *on topic* posted to cctalk is also seen by cctech. In other language, cctech is a proper subset of cctalk (and cctalk is a superset of cctech). Therefore, if you subscribe to cctalk, you see everything, and your posts go to cctech if they're relevant; if you subscribe to cctech, you only see part of the list traffic, but everything you post is seen by every subscriber. What's worst is posting to both; then *everyone* gets two copies of what you post. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From waltje at pdp11.nl Tue Oct 28 15:56:19 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:39 2005 Subject: Digital BA363 Personal Storage Shelf In-Reply-To: <20031027163935.53000.qmail@web13503.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: David, > I pulled one of these out of the trash a while back > and finally got around to trying it this weekend. I > installed three disks but it seems unresponsive. Maybe > that's why it was in the trash - but before I give up > on it is there anything unusual about the SCSI > interface on these devices ? None of the disks > responded to a SCSI probe. There is nothing special about this box. It is a standard SCSI (narrow, fast @ 10MHz) bus cabinet, with space for 2 Digital SBB's (storage building blocks) at 3.5" and one slot for either another SBB, or a 5.25" device SBB, like a CD drive or a tape. SCSI ID's can be set on the back. I have a few of those, loaded with RZ28's (mostly), and they work fine. *DO* remember though, that it they have a narrow bus, so you can only use -VA SBB's; the -VW might work, but don't always seem to. Cheers, Fred -- Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist Visit the VAXlab Project at http://www.pdp11.nl/VAXlab/ Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Sunnyvale, CA, USA From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Oct 28 16:08:34 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:40 2005 Subject: Dealing with the Press In-Reply-To: <20031028153300.GC307@rhiannon.rddavis.org> References: <20031028073425.28322.qmail@web14005.mail.yahoo.com> <3F9E46B8.2010509@internet1.net> <20031028153300.GC307@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <20031028140703.C5312@newshell.lmi.net> On Tue, 28 Oct 2003, R. D. Davis wrote: > Wouldn't it make much more sense for newspapers to just hire 7th > graders to work part-time and pay them minimum wage, since the news is > typically written on a 7th grade, or lower, reading level? Seriously, > it makes no sense to hire English/Journalism majors to write articles > on a 7th grade, or lower, reading level. If those English/Journalism > majors can't make any use of what they supposedly learned in college, > and, in the apparent majority of cases, they lack the skills to > comprehend much of what they write about, be it politics, computers, > employment, the usual propaganda or whatever else they're writing > about, why employ them? Are you suggesting that the Baltimore Sun should UPGRADE their writers to 7th graders? From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Oct 28 16:29:49 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:40 2005 Subject: Wanted: CMS manuals Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031028172949.00807eb0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> One of the other list members and I have a bunch of Exorbus cards made by CMS. He's trying to convince me to put together an Exorbus system with them. We have planty of cards but NO docs. Does anyone have docs for ANY of the CMS stuff? Joe From jrice54 at charter.net Tue Oct 28 16:52:10 2003 From: jrice54 at charter.net (James Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:40 2005 Subject: Why am I unsubscribed? Message-ID: <3F9EF31A.3090504@charter.net> Why am I unsubscribed from both lists? From ian_primus at yahoo.com Tue Oct 28 17:29:26 2003 From: ian_primus at yahoo.com (Ian Primus) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:40 2005 Subject: Dealing with the Press In-Reply-To: <39056.64.169.63.74.1067362518.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <91BC933E-099E-11D8-B04B-000393D7845A@yahoo.com> On Tuesday, October 28, 2003, at 12:35 PM, Eric Smith wrote: > "evan" wrote: >> In fact, local newspapers are still the >> heart of American journalism, and most do a superb at >> covering their regions and small towns, in a way that >> the AP or CNN never will be able to do. > > Huh? Every time a newspaper run a story about *anything* I happen > to know about (not just tech), the story is riddled with > inaccurate, distorted, or just plain wrong information. I can > hardly believe that I'm unique in this regard, so presumably > for the stories that I don't have direct knowledge of, other > readers who are would would have the same reaction. Thus I am > forced to conclude that *everything* they publish is at that > level of "quality", or at least such a high percentage that I'm > disinclined to believe just about anything I read in the paper. You are definitely not alone. Just about every article I read where I know about the subject is full of false information. Just the other day I read an article that talked about how people were learning computer languages like Excel and Windows so that they could get better jobs. > > If the newspaper said the sun was going to rise tomorrow, I'd want > to find an another source to confirm it. The only things in the newspaper I trust are the comics. > > That said, I think television news tends to be even worse. > Yeah, but at least on the television news, you can hear them mispronounce words too, not just misspell them. Ian Primus ian_primus@yahoo.com From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Oct 28 17:26:30 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:40 2005 Subject: sticky Sony 3.5" drive In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20031028113512.007d1cf0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> from "Joe" at Oct 28, 3 11:35:12 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 937 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20031028/5b0ff471/attachment.ksh From teoz at neo.rr.com Tue Oct 28 18:27:19 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:40 2005 Subject: Dealing with the Press References: <200310281834.KAA27804@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <005401c39db3$69d3c960$3d7ca418@neo.rr.com> > > Hi > I thought I might add that our local newspaper also creates > many contrived stories. Although it would seem to the general > reader that they were getting better coverage, most of the > stories are misleading. Almost all of the quotes are taken > from context and were not even originally spoken in terms > of the created story. It is called freedom of the press. > I tend to call it fraud. > I don't consider fiction as useful information regardless > of how close to home it is or what cause it promotes. > Dwight > >From what I remember about history the local papers were made by founding fathers to print bad stories about each other before elections (some things never change). The media has a long history of making up stories and printing outright lies, its actually better today then 100 years ago. The whole point of a newspaper is to make money, anything that people are interested in at the time is put in the paper. My standard aproach to media stories wether they are in print, on tv, or on the radio is too think of what the angle is of the publisher and what the source of the story has to gain with their left or right spin on it. I am sure everybody over the age of 18 knows that everything that is fed to us is tainted with some bullshit or spin by the people who print it because of finacial oir political gain and also from just lazy reporter not checking on the facts. Was it the NY times that fired a reporter this year for just making stuff up in many of his articles? If such a large paper doesnt check the facts before publishing stories what do you expect from the little local papers? Dont get me started on 24/7 CNN type channels that have to get something new every few hours just to keep a story going on the air. From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue Oct 28 18:32:18 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:40 2005 Subject: list change References: <3F9E545D.4914.2BE3A5@localhost> Message-ID: <003b01c39db4$5b4e7b50$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Stan wrote.... > I hope it's setup a bit more leniently for existing subscribers. > I.e., it should be possible for a CCTALK subscriber to post to CCTECH > and vice versa ... for obvious reasons. But that's the whole point... if a cctalker posts to cctalk, he IS posting to cctech by doing so. He should NOT post to cctech directly or he will get rejected as he should be. And a cctecher posting to cctech IS posting to cctalk, just by posting to cctech. One more time... if someone posts to cctech, the list server automatically cross posts the same message to cctalk - for him - he doesn't need to do it. This happens instantaneously. If someone posts to cctalk, the list software posts the message to cctech as well automatically, but, it's held for moderation. Hummm Maybe to drive this point home I need to disallow posts to cctalk, and disallow posts to cctech email addresses for ANYTHING. Instead, everyone will have to post to classiccmp@classiccmp.org, which is really what they should be doing anyway because there really isn't two separate lists. There is ONE list, but with two views. Jay From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue Oct 28 19:30:19 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:40 2005 Subject: (one) problem with list identified - please read Message-ID: <00a301c39dbc$37344210$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> I am not sure exactly what went on with this, but I am guessing that perhaps the old version of mailman had it's own templates and the new version uses different web templates, both of which are apparently active. If anyone is having problems logging in to change their subscription settings.... do not use www.classiccmp.org/cctech.html or www.classiccmp.org/cctalk.html Those two links are where the classiccmp website points to for modifying your membership. The correct links are: www.classiccmp.org/mailman/options/cctech and www.classiccmp.org/mailman/options/cctalk These two links will let you change your subscription options. These links aren't the "normal" way to get to it... since apparently the mailman website structure changed with the upgrade (and the old customized pieces from Jeff Sharp are still there) - the old pages do things wrong. I'll straighten it out shortly, but temporarily you can use the above two links! Jay West From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue Oct 28 20:21:04 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:40 2005 Subject: hmm... new batch of search engine mailers :) AND Re: RFQ Fluke pods References: <001b01c3996b$08a8daa0$cbce4142@Art> <3.0.6.32.20031028114614.007d1cf0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <00c701c39dc3$4fbf0c50$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> ok, I give. When one goes to approve messages, one sees the subject line, not the text of the message. If the subject line looks reasonable I pass it. If the subject line looks suspect (or the originating email address does) then I take the time to click the message and read the full text. I read the entire list traffic in my OWN mailbox, so when I go to moderate/approve posts I generally have some memory of what went OT and what didn't. But hey, I'm human, and make mistakes, and often try to just get through it quickly. I was really hoping to not have my moderation tasks take hours instead of minutes twice a day. In retrospect, this is a bad algorithm on my part. Makes it hard to catch originally valid threads that have drifted off topic. I'll just double my time moderating. No Problem, time is easy (sarcasm). Many times I see non-members post to the list obviously from a google search. Many times I sympathize with the guy, looking for something obscure. God knows *I'VE* been there. I shouldn't be so free with your guys time to delete the posts :) Instead, I'll have to be more free with my time. Thanks for letting me know "Artfromny" is a ebay profiteer, I had no clue. I need to spend a lot more time scanning ebay and keeping track of this stuff!! Ok, enough whiny sarcasm on my part. I'm actually in a heated contest with "Grumpy Ol' Fred" to steal his "Grumpy" title *GRIN* But seriously, one list member has been kind enough to offer his time to you all to help keep the flow of moderated posts going, and to more closely check the content. I could always use another person or two to help flag posts as "accept/reject/discard". Any takers? Joe, you offering? :) Jay From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue Oct 28 20:38:33 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:40 2005 Subject: hmm... new batch of search engine mailers :) References: <3.0.6.32.20031027202515.007f32d0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com><3.0.6.32.20031027202515.007f32d0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3.0.6.32.20031028113158.007e2c10@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <00d301c39dc5$bf955960$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Patrick wrote... > >Do you not realize that Jay is probably moderating these onto the list, so > >that someone might see them and help the person out? Joe replied... > Yes, And your point is? His point is mine. Sometimes, not rarely, but not often, I space out and just don't realize it's a nefarious poster. Many times I conciously approve the post. Joe, if you had 50 vintage computer widgets that you didn't care about, wouldn't you like to see some big corporation post and say "I need 50 widgets desperately, I'll pay $200 each". Not to mention, as we all know... new acquisitions come from the strangest places. Maybe the person looking for the fluke pods (or something like that) might say in passing after the off-list contact "hey, I know where there is a computer you might want, I think it's called a Decsystem 2020". Yeah, I know that's not common. But do we not have a duty as collectors to educate and represent the hobby in the best light? Patrick wrote... > I doubt these > >people are so clueless that they're going through the trouble to sign up > >to the list, and post a message that sounds like they think they're > >talking to just one person.' Joe replied... > Your're completely wrong here. First, they DON'T sign up to the list. > Second, most of them obviously think they're talking to one person and have > no clue that they're talking to a list of 500+. All you have to do to > determine that is to read the messages. SO WHAT if they think they are talking to one person and they are really talking to a list? Maybe I'm dense, but I don't see why we should pounce on someones lack of knowledge. Well, at least make an argument for the case I can get my head around. In the absence of some cogent reasoning, your statement sounds.. well... elitist. Patrick wrote.... > >I'm sorry for the rant, but seeing this topic come up week after week > >really gets old. Joe replied... > No more tiring than having to wade through endless piles of these > messages everyday! If these people are seriously interested in classic > computers then they should join the list and post their questions > accordingly. This stuff of them just throwing out of date and irrelevent > messages out on the list is for the birds! I prefer to look at it this way Joe... Someone asks for help with an old system they happen to still have or use. We help them out. They may BECOME collectors and get interested and join the list. If someone has to be seriously interested in classic computers before they join the list, we would have a small and shrinking member base. And on this list, since when is "out of date" a bad thing? *GRIN* And Joe, just for the record - I do agree with you up to a point. Ok, I'm back to list maintenance :) From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue Oct 28 20:56:10 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:40 2005 Subject: HP 262x terminal help sought Message-ID: <014501c39dc8$35546810$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> I have a 262x HP terminal, think it's a 2624. It is the "ET head" style. I got it years ago and stuck it in a corner of the basement, and just got it out to clean it and get it up and running. It now has lots of white spots under the glass. Looks like mold to me. Nice perfectly round dots. But the thing is they are UNDER the glass. Is anyone familiar with this terminal enough to tell me if it's now dumpster material or can this glass be reached under or taken off somehow? Thanks in advance! Jay West From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue Oct 28 21:00:48 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:40 2005 Subject: HP cable sought References: <3.0.6.32.20031003172733.007dfdc0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <015101c39dc8$dc7808e0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> I'm gonna build one from real HP parts. Got a few partially trashed cables so I have the connectors and all. Want me to build one for you if I have more piecesparts? BTW - paper tape reader is 2748A or 2748B. B is better in my book. I might have a cable for that spare too. Jay ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Friday, October 03, 2003 3:27 PM Subject: Re: HP cable sought > Nope, but I have the punch and could use a cable too if you find an extra. > Also need a cable for the PT reader but I don't remember the model number. > > Joe > > At 08:39 AM 10/3/03 -0500, you wrote: > >Looking for the cable that goes from an HP2100/1000 cpu to a 2895B paper > >tape punch. I can fabricate one from spare cables, but I'd rather get an > >original. Anyone have one to trade? > > > >Jay West > > > >--- > >[This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > > > > > > > From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Oct 28 22:29:53 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:40 2005 Subject: Digital BA363 Personal Storage Shelf In-Reply-To: from "Fred N. van Kempen" at Oct 28, 2003 10:56:19 PM Message-ID: <200310290429.h9T4Trhf026034@onyx.spiritone.com> > There is nothing special about this box. It is a standard SCSI > (narrow, fast @ 10MHz) bus cabinet, with space for 2 Digital > SBB's (storage building blocks) at 3.5" and one slot for either > another SBB, or a 5.25" device SBB, like a CD drive or a tape. > > SCSI ID's can be set on the back. > > I have a few of those, loaded with RZ28's (mostly), and they > work fine. *DO* remember though, that it they have a narrow > bus, so you can only use -VA SBB's; the -VW might work, but > don't always seem to. These are the the sort of pizza box type things, right? ISTR that you're not supposed to run 7200RPM drives in these due to heat problems. I know I wouldn't want to run one in there very long. IIRC, I finally got mine to work on a VAXstation 4000 a while back, but haven't had time to do anything more with it. Personally I prefer a BA350 or BA356 shelf. Zane From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Oct 28 22:30:01 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:40 2005 Subject: hmm... new batch of search engine mailers :) In-Reply-To: <10310282111.ZM17244@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20031027202515.007f32d0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <200310280209.58730.pat@purdueriots.com> <10310282111.ZM17244@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <20031028202711.R23189@newshell.lmi.net> > That being said, Jay: It'd probably be nice if the people realized they > were posting to a list when they tried to 'reply' to a message in the > archives. Would it be possible to make the mailto: link read "mailing > list" or something, instead of being the poster's name with the email > going to the list? ATM, how it's set up, it's easy to think you're > sending a message to a person, not a list of people. That's just my > suggestion (and perhaps it'll help out with these weekly threads). I would just like the subject line to show a flag that it was a "non-member submission" ("[NMS]"?) Those who are annoyed by them, or ascribe sinister motives, could filter them out. But, ... as long as Jay is willing to manage things, and until 10 years have passed (to bring it ON-topic), then it is his decision. From bernd at kopriva.de Tue Oct 28 21:35:40 2003 From: bernd at kopriva.de (Bernd Kopriva) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:40 2005 Subject: are there any Hauppauge 4860 motherboard owners? In-Reply-To: <87znfl844w.fsf@aladdin.de> Message-ID: <200310290445.h9T4jKgG056189@huey.classiccmp.org> Hi chris, nice to see, that there are still some users of that really interesting mainboard :-). I'm owning such a board too, but due to space restrictions, it's not build in a machine at the moment. Maybe it's time, to reactivate it ! Thanks for sharing your loader. Bernd On 28 Oct 2003 22:05:19 +0100, Christian Groessler wrote: >Hi, > >the Hauppauge 4860 motherboard holds 2 processors, one i486 and one >i860. > >I've written a tool to run programs on the i860 that I want to share, >and I'm also looking for other users of the board. > >You can find the loader tool at >ftp://ftp.groessler.org/pub/chris/i860/hauppauge_4860/loader-0.50.tar.gz . > >regards, >chris > > From wmsmith at earthlink.net Tue Oct 28 22:50:55 2003 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:40 2005 Subject: PDP-11/23 In-Reply-To: <3F9ED013.4405D3E7@msm.umr.edu> Message-ID: <004901c39dd8$3cc70ac0$b03fcd18@WaynePC> > > And if you don't have the time or energy to watch eBay then they > > probably don't care either way. eBay has a search tool. > > that sucks. it only searchs for full word matches and > literal matches. > Not true as to full word matches. You can use * as a wildcard either in the middle of the word, or at the end, which then will search for any word beginning with everything to the left of the wildcard. From jwest at classiccmp.org Tue Oct 28 22:58:04 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:40 2005 Subject: Why am I unsubscribed? References: <3F9EF31A.3090504@charter.net> Message-ID: <021901c39dd9$3c8f8a90$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> I can assure you that you are, in fact, subscribed to BOTH lists. *shakes his head* J ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Rice" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2003 4:52 PM Subject: Why am I unsubscribed? > Why am I unsubscribed from both lists? > > > From donm at cts.com Tue Oct 28 23:24:33 2003 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:40 2005 Subject: Dealing with the Press In-Reply-To: <20031028140703.C5312@newshell.lmi.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 28 Oct 2003, Fred Cisin wrote: > > Are you suggesting that the Baltimore Sun should UPGRADE their writers to > 7th graders? > It would likely be a distinct improvement here with the San Diego Union/Tribune! - don From evan947 at yahoo.com Tue Oct 28 23:49:23 2003 From: evan947 at yahoo.com (evan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:40 2005 Subject: Dealing with the Press In-Reply-To: <005401c39db3$69d3c960$3d7ca418@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: <20031029054923.735.qmail@web14008.mail.yahoo.com> This is getting ridiculously off-topic -- which is supposed to be vintage computing. However I can't sit here and let all this bullcrap fly by my screen without defending my profession. Yes, there's a LOT of bad journalism, and a lot of propoganda disguising itself as journalism. But there are a lot of bullshitters and pretenders in ANY field. And in any field, it's a sad reality that those who suck make the good ones look bad. The vast majority of American news reporters are perfectly competent, conscientious, upstanding citizens, who've chosen the field because they want to make a difference in their communities. If one such reporter stumbles on someone's vintage computer collection, and decides that it might make an interesting human interest story, then for Pete's sake, EMBRACE THAT. Conversely, being obnoxious, uninformed, and snobby, are some of the qualities that make the mass public distrust computer nerds just as much as they generalize the media or lawyers or politicians or health insurance companies or energy firms. Now, I ** know ** most computer nerds are NOT obnoxious, uninformed, or snobby. I know most truly care and want to make the world a better place. And I know this because I'm ONE of them, in my spare time. But as a reporter in the daytime, I feel the exact same way toward that responsibility. So please, fellow vintage computer fans, stop this obnoxious, uninformed, and snobby (and just plain stupid) press-bashing. A sad event at The New York Times or muckraking from centuries ago has 100 percent zilch to do with the honest, curious, blue-collar community newspaper reporter who just thought our neat little tech collections were interesting. Of course I shouldn't judge ALL computer collectors by the emails of so very few (see the point?) From vcf at siconic.com Wed Oct 29 00:07:05 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:40 2005 Subject: Dealing with the Press In-Reply-To: <20031028073425.28322.qmail@web14005.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 27 Oct 2003, evan wrote: > It really saddens me to see so much negativity about > how the press can only get it wrong, look for the bad > news, or generally miss the point. I suppose that Hi Evan. While I understand your reaction to the negative comments being put forth about reporters in general, I will say that there is definitely a basis for the negativity. Most of the many times I've been interviewed, the article came out in a way that made me embarassed to have been quoted or to have been the subject. Now, I realize your message was reactionary, but you should realize that you are one of the most impressive reporters and researchers I have ever known (and you know I've told you this many times before). You are really the exception to the norm (unfortunately). You are probably very lucky to work with the team that you do. You are most likely insulated from the schlock reporting that takes place. So anyway, don't take it as an affront. If you want, I'll even point out all the (many) inaccuracies in the various stories I've presented in the Press section of the VCF website: http://www.vintage.org/press.php ...then you'll know of what we speak ;) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From ggs at shiresoft.com Wed Oct 29 00:02:27 2003 From: ggs at shiresoft.com (Guy Sotomayor) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:40 2005 Subject: HP 262x terminal help sought In-Reply-To: <014501c39dc8$35546810$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> References: <014501c39dc8$35546810$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <1067407346.2141.20.camel@nazgul.shiresoft.com> On Tue, 2003-10-28 at 18:56, Jay West wrote: > I have a 262x HP terminal, think it's a 2624. It is the "ET head" style. I > got it years ago and stuck it in a corner of the basement, and just got it > out to clean it and get it up and running. It now has lots of white spots > under the glass. Looks like mold to me. Nice perfectly round dots. But the > thing is they are UNDER the glass. Is anyone familiar with this terminal > enough to tell me if it's now dumpster material or can this glass be reached > under or taken off somehow? I've never seen it, but I heard about it. Apparently these are famous for it (for some reason). I don't know what the solution is (if there is one). -- TTFN - Guy From vcf at siconic.com Wed Oct 29 00:12:20 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:40 2005 Subject: PDP-11/23 In-Reply-To: <3F9ED013.4405D3E7@msm.umr.edu> Message-ID: On Tue, 28 Oct 2003, jim wrote: > > And if you don't have the time or energy to watch eBay then they probably > > don't care either way. eBay has a search tool. > > that sucks. it only searchs for full word matches and literal matches. > > I think that items that are rare (that is subjective) should be posted > here, especially if in the poster's opinion, the rest of the list may > not find it. Or use the Vintage Computer Marketplace since it's superior to eBay in too many ways to mention and is also tailored specifically for computer collectors. Spread the word. Tell all the people you buy vintage stuff from on eBay to use the VCM instead. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Wed Oct 29 00:21:39 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:40 2005 Subject: Dealing with the Press In-Reply-To: <20031028130204.Y5312@newshell.lmi.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 28 Oct 2003, Fred Cisin wrote: > On Mon, 27 Oct 2003, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > I once ate my way through a chain link fence for an S-100 computer. > > Was that on a "rapage"? > with Somalian or Samoan helpers, eating fence? > > NOTE: always open all fences, gates, and doors, and then > STAND BACK when Sellam is collecting! I've watched him > stuff multiple cubic yards of boxes into a Honda. Here's one of my more insane exploits: http://www.siconic.com/crap/Stuffed_Civic_2.jpg http://www.siconic.com/crap/Stuffed_Civic_3.jpg This is a 2-door Honda Civic. Here is all that was inside: http://www.siconic.com/crap/Unloaded_Civic.jpg 11 Apple Monochrome Monitor 5 Amdek Color Plus monitors 2 Apple ImageWriter printers 15 Apple //e, ][+ 5 Apple DuoDisk 12 Apple Disk ][ Note, this is certainly not one of my most insae exploits, but it is one that I have pictures for :) CAUTION: Don't try this at home! It's really stupid :) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Wed Oct 29 00:22:33 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:40 2005 Subject: list change In-Reply-To: <10310282126.ZM17250@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 28 Oct 2003, Pete Turnbull wrote: > On Oct 28, 9:56, der Mouse wrote: > > > Also - this bears repeating... do *NOT* subscribe to both lists! > > > > ...why not? I'd rather get two copies of stuff sent to both than no > > copies of stuff sent to the oen I'm not on; that's why I subscribed > to > > both. > > Because it's not two lists. It's two views of the same list -- > everything posted to cctech is automatically seen by cctalk; everything > *on topic* posted to cctalk is also seen by cctech. In other language, > cctech is a proper subset of cctalk (and cctalk is a superset of > cctech). Therefore, if you subscribe to cctalk, you see everything, > and your posts go to cctech if they're relevant; if you subscribe to > cctech, you only see part of the list traffic, but everything you post > is seen by every subscriber. > > What's worst is posting to both; then *everyone* gets two copies of > what you post. It's sort of like Quantum Physics. Only more complicated. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Wed Oct 29 00:24:50 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:40 2005 Subject: Dealing with the Press In-Reply-To: <005401c39db3$69d3c960$3d7ca418@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 28 Oct 2003, TeoZ wrote: > Was it the NY times that fired a reporter this year for just making stuff up > in many of his articles? No, Judith Miller is still on the NY Times staff, unfortunately. :) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From Edward.Tillman at valero.com Wed Oct 29 02:33:33 2003 From: Edward.Tillman at valero.com (Tillman, Edward) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:40 2005 Subject: PDP-11/23 Message-ID: In that case, would you have a switch for an older AT power supply that has all 4 bayonettes pointing directly aft, instead of at 90 degrees to the switch? ___ ___ --|___|:: --|___| : : Needed config Normal config Cheers... Ed Tillman Store Automation Tech Support Specialist Valero Energy Corporation San Antonio, Texas, USA Office: (210)592-3110, Fax (210)592-2048 Email: edward.tillman@valero.com -----Original Message----- From: Vintage Computer Festival [mailto:vcf@siconic.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2003 12:12 AM To: jwstephens@msm.umr.edu; General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: PDP-11/23 On Tue, 28 Oct 2003, jim wrote: > > And if you don't have the time or energy to watch eBay then they probably > > don't care either way. eBay has a search tool. > > that sucks. it only searchs for full word matches and literal matches. > > I think that items that are rare (that is subjective) should be posted > here, especially if in the poster's opinion, the rest of the list may > not find it. Or use the Vintage Computer Marketplace since it's superior to eBay in too many ways to mention and is also tailored specifically for computer collectors. Spread the word. Tell all the people you buy vintage stuff from on eBay to use the VCM instead. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From tractorb at ihug.co.nz Wed Oct 29 02:49:50 2003 From: tractorb at ihug.co.nz (Dave Brown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:40 2005 Subject: HP 262x terminal help sought References: <014501c39dc8$35546810$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <00d101c39df9$9da5c450$6a00a8c0@athlon> Jay Are the spots all over the screen area or mainly around the edges? I had this issue a while back with a HP 9845 screen- If the screens are similar, then it's not easy, but it CAN be fixed. Dave Brown Christchurch, NZ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jay West" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2003 3:56 PM Subject: HP 262x terminal help sought > I have a 262x HP terminal, think it's a 2624. It is the "ET head" style. I > got it years ago and stuck it in a corner of the basement, and just got it > out to clean it and get it up and running. It now has lots of white spots > under the glass. Looks like mold to me. Nice perfectly round dots. But the > thing is they are UNDER the glass. Is anyone familiar with this terminal > enough to tell me if it's now dumpster material or can this glass be reached > under or taken off somehow? > > Thanks in advance! > > Jay West > > From waltje at pdp11.nl Wed Oct 29 05:04:07 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:40 2005 Subject: PDP-11/23 In-Reply-To: <3F9ED013.4405D3E7@msm.umr.edu> Message-ID: Guys, enough already... Although these postings sometimes obviously have a darker motive to them, they don't happen too frequently. Sometimes they suck, and sometimes they indeed served a reasonable purpose. Much more time and energy is spent here on quibbling about it. Can we terminate this thread, please? --f From waltje at pdp11.nl Wed Oct 29 05:08:06 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:40 2005 Subject: Digital BA363 Personal Storage Shelf In-Reply-To: <200310290429.h9T4Trhf026034@onyx.spiritone.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 28 Oct 2003, Zane H. Healy wrote: > These are the the sort of pizza box type things, right? ISTR that you're > not supposed to run 7200RPM drives in these due to heat problems. I know I > wouldn't want to run one in there very long. Yeah, the big flat pizzabox cases. Heat would indeed be an issue with certain drives. --f From jrice54 at charter.net Wed Oct 29 07:28:17 2003 From: jrice54 at charter.net (James Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:40 2005 Subject: Why am I unsubscribed? In-Reply-To: <021901c39dd9$3c8f8a90$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> References: <3F9EF31A.3090504@charter.net> <021901c39dd9$3c8f8a90$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <3F9FC071.2030709@charter.net> Jy, I originally subscribed to both lists because I seemed to not be able to post to cctech without being subscribed to it also. Originally I had mail delivery turned off on cctech, but then I must have turned it back on for some reason. I have unsubbed from cctech. We'll see how it goes from here. James Jay West wrote: >I can assure you that you are, in fact, subscribed to BOTH lists. > >*shakes his head* > >J >----- Original Message ----- >From: "James Rice" >To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > >Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2003 4:52 PM >Subject: Why am I unsubscribed? > > > > >>Why am I unsubscribed from both lists? >> >> >> >> >> > > > > -- http://webpages.charter.net/jrice54/classiccomp2.html From jrice54 at charter.net Wed Oct 29 07:30:51 2003 From: jrice54 at charter.net (James Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:40 2005 Subject: WTB: SCSI cable (OT) Message-ID: <3F9FC10B.2010707@charter.net> I'm looking for a SCSI cable. I need one that is a HD68 with screws to Centronics 50 with the upper 9 bytes terminated. I haven't been able to find one locally in Dallas. It is for a (OT) Octane to Sgi SCSI-1 CD-ROM -- http://webpages.charter.net/jrice54/classiccomp2.html From GOOI at oce.nl Wed Oct 29 07:46:47 2003 From: GOOI at oce.nl (Gooijen H) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:40 2005 Subject: How about a PDP-10? (RE: A real PDP-8 that you can hang on yo ur w all!) Message-ID: <1A9EACFF5B9EB9489F00104C00ECF641027B0E07@hqvenlomail.oce.nl> Well, I do not know (did not check...) the PDP-10 support in SIMH *if* it is available. Otherwise you could add the PDP-10 :-) I am still working (though it's been a year since I actually have spent time on it) on a self-made PDP-11/40 console that can be connected to E11. However, that would also require some work to be done by John Wilson. Within a few months I will start work on the adaptation of the SIMH code to include this *real* console. E11 support is for later ... For an impression see www.pdp-11.nl click the link "homebrew PDP-11". - Henk. > -----Original Message----- > From: Corda Albert J DLVA [mailto:CordaAJ@nswc.navy.mil] > Sent: maandag 27 oktober 2003 20:30 > To: 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts' > Subject: How about a PDP-10? (RE: A real PDP-8 that you can > hang on your > w all!) > > > Any chance you guys might try do this for a PDP-10? ;-) A KA10 front > panel would be a bit bigger, but would provide plenty of > room for the more complex emulator circuitry... > > And yes, I know there are software-based '10 emulators, but for > some reason I can't explain, I've always desired a hardware-based > 10 emulator (like the XKL, only affordable). > > -al- > -acorda@1bigred.com From vance at neurotica.com Wed Oct 29 07:53:09 2003 From: vance at neurotica.com (vance@neurotica.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:40 2005 Subject: WTB: SCSI cable (OT) In-Reply-To: <3F9FC10B.2010707@charter.net> References: <3F9FC10B.2010707@charter.net> Message-ID: Contact the people at http://www.mocconsulting.com/. They're local to me, but they ship. They're Good People (tm). Peace... Sridhar On Wed, 29 Oct 2003, James Rice wrote: > I'm looking for a SCSI cable. I need one that is a HD68 with screws to > Centronics 50 with the upper 9 bytes terminated. I haven't been able to > find one locally in Dallas. It is for a (OT) Octane to Sgi SCSI-1 CD-ROM > > -- > http://webpages.charter.net/jrice54/classiccomp2.html > > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Oct 29 07:12:00 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:40 2005 Subject: sticky Sony 3.5" drive In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.32.20031028113512.007d1cf0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031029081200.007fe5c0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 11:26 PM 10/28/03 +0000, you wrote: >> The good thing is that those drives are fairly easy to find. AFIK all the >> double sided drives used by HP are interchangable. Find on old 9133, 9153 > >There are at least 2 types. The older one is full height and has a 26 pin >connector, with a separate 4 pin power connector. I don't think I've ever seen one of this type. Do you know what HP models they were used in? The later one is half >height and has a 34 pin connecotr (with power on some of the odd-numbered >pins). The former is used in the 9114A, the latter in the 9114B, for >example. > > >> or similar combination hard/floppy drive that has a bad hard drive in it >> and take the floppy drive from it. > >IIRC, the 9153 uses the later drive (the 9133 uses the older one, as do >many other disk units). > >The older HP hard disk units used standard hard disks too (the 9133H uses >an ST225 IIRC). However, they seem to have been specially low-level >formatted, and I've never found a way to format a non-HP drive to work in >thuse boxes. Has anyone ever done this? I have. I'm pretty sure that it was on a drive that used a Seagate drive internally (251 I THINK!) but I don't remember what HP model it was. Sorry. I've tried it with some other drives that used non-Seagate drives but could never make it work. I wonder if you had a working and replacement drive if it would be possible to install both bare drives in another computer and use some kind of cloning software to "format" the replacement drive. Someone that knows HP-IB drive operation may be able to write a program to make the drives format themselves (assuming that they're even capable of it). Steve Robertson is doing a lot of work in that area. Joe > >-tony > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Oct 29 07:20:21 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:40 2005 Subject: hmm... new batch of search engine mailers :) AND Re: RFQ Flukepods In-Reply-To: <00c701c39dc3$4fbf0c50$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> References: <001b01c3996b$08a8daa0$cbce4142@Art> <3.0.6.32.20031028114614.007d1cf0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031029082021.007fe800@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Jay, Sure, I'll help out. That's only reasonable since I've been one of the more vocal opponnents to non-member postings. My schedule is sort of erratic so I can't always promise how quickly I'll review the message but since they all seem to come from OLD threads I don't see that as a problem. Joe At 08:21 PM 10/28/03 -0600, you wrote: >ok, I give. > >When one goes to approve messages, one sees the subject line, not the text >of the message. If the subject line looks reasonable I pass it. If the >subject line looks suspect (or the originating email address does) then I >take the time to click the message and read the full text. I read the entire >list traffic in my OWN mailbox, so when I go to moderate/approve posts I >generally have some memory of what went OT and what didn't. But hey, I'm >human, and make mistakes, and often try to just get through it quickly. I >was really hoping to not have my moderation tasks take hours instead of >minutes twice a day. > >In retrospect, this is a bad algorithm on my part. Makes it hard to catch >originally valid threads that have drifted off topic. I'll just double my >time moderating. No Problem, time is easy (sarcasm). > >Many times I see non-members post to the list obviously from a google >search. Many times I sympathize with the guy, looking for something obscure. >God knows *I'VE* been there. I shouldn't be so free with your guys time to >delete the posts :) Instead, I'll have to be more free with my time. Thanks >for letting me know "Artfromny" is a ebay profiteer, I had no clue. I need >to spend a lot more time scanning ebay and keeping track of this stuff!! > >Ok, enough whiny sarcasm on my part. I'm actually in a heated contest with >"Grumpy Ol' Fred" to steal his "Grumpy" title *GRIN* But seriously, one list >member has been kind enough to offer his time to you all to help keep the >flow of moderated posts going, and to more closely check the content. I >could always use another person or two to help flag posts as >"accept/reject/discard". Any takers? Joe, you offering? :) > >Jay > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Oct 29 07:25:51 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:40 2005 Subject: HP 262x terminal help sought In-Reply-To: <014501c39dc8$35546810$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031029082551.007fea40@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Jay, A year or two ago Steve Loboyko (sp?) posted several messages here about the same topic. He found that the spots were mold and were between the CRT and the safety glass. He was able to take the safety glass off and clean the mold out. I think he used acetone to dissolve the glue between the CRT and safety shield. I suppose he found a way to re-apply the safefty glass but I don't remember. You should be able to find more details in the archives, If you can't then contact Steve and ask him about it. Joe At 08:56 PM 10/28/03 -0600, you wrote: >I have a 262x HP terminal, think it's a 2624. It is the "ET head" style. I >got it years ago and stuck it in a corner of the basement, and just got it >out to clean it and get it up and running. It now has lots of white spots >under the glass. Looks like mold to me. Nice perfectly round dots. But the >thing is they are UNDER the glass. Is anyone familiar with this terminal >enough to tell me if it's now dumpster material or can this glass be reached >under or taken off somehow? > >Thanks in advance! > >Jay West > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Oct 29 07:39:12 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:40 2005 Subject: HP cable sought In-Reply-To: <015101c39dc8$dc7808e0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> References: <3.0.6.32.20031003172733.007dfdc0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031029083912.007fec80@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 09:00 PM 10/28/03 -0600, you wrote: >I'm gonna build one from real HP parts. Got a few partially trashed cables >so I have the connectors and all. Want me to build one for you if I have >more piecesparts? You bet! I also have some cable pieces if you need some. > >BTW - paper tape reader is 2748A or 2748B. B is better in my book. I might >have a cable for that spare too. > I don't remember if it's an A or a B but I think it's a B. It's put away at the moment and I can't get to it. Joe >Jay > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Joe" >To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > >Sent: Friday, October 03, 2003 3:27 PM >Subject: Re: HP cable sought > > >> Nope, but I have the punch and could use a cable too if you find an extra. >> Also need a cable for the PT reader but I don't remember the model number. >> >> Joe >> >> At 08:39 AM 10/3/03 -0500, you wrote: >> >Looking for the cable that goes from an HP2100/1000 cpu to a 2895B paper >> >tape punch. I can fabricate one from spare cables, but I'd rather get an >> >original. Anyone have one to trade? >> > >> >Jay West >> > >> >--- >> >[This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] >> > >> > >> >> >> > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Oct 29 07:44:02 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:40 2005 Subject: HP 262x terminal help sought In-Reply-To: <1067407346.2141.20.camel@nazgul.shiresoft.com> References: <014501c39dc8$35546810$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> <014501c39dc8$35546810$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031029084402.0079aa60@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 10:02 PM 10/28/03 -0800, you wrote: >On Tue, 2003-10-28 at 18:56, Jay West wrote: >> I have a 262x HP terminal, think it's a 2624. It is the "ET head" style. I >> got it years ago and stuck it in a corner of the basement, and just got it >> out to clean it and get it up and running. It now has lots of white spots >> under the glass. Looks like mold to me. Nice perfectly round dots. But the >> thing is they are UNDER the glass. Is anyone familiar with this terminal >> enough to tell me if it's now dumpster material or can this glass be reached >> under or taken off somehow? > >I've never seen it, but I heard about it. Apparently these are famous >for it (for some reason). I don't know what the solution is (if there >is one). >-- > >TTFN - Guy A lot of the older HP stuff seems to be prone to it. I've had 9835s and 9845s with the same problem. I have an old TV that has the same problem but other than that I seldom see it. I wonder if the HP stuff is prone to that or if other brand items just never last long enough to develope that problem. FWIW I have HP scopes that date to the late '60s and early '70s but I've never seen it on them. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Oct 29 07:48:05 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:40 2005 Subject: HP 82161A Digital Cassette Drive found In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031029084805.0079a630@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> It's a micro cassette battery powered tape drive with an HP-IL interface. It's used with the HP-41, HP-71, HP-75 calculators. It's DEFINITELY worth grabbing but shipping to the US might be a bit expensive so it would be best for a European member to grab it. The tapes are HARD to get. Are there any with it? Joe At 06:43 PM 10/26/03 +0100, you wrote: >> HP 82161A Digital Cassette Drive. Klassieker. Voor HP programmeerbare >> rekenmachines, b.v. 41C of 75C. Met 4 mini cassettes. Incl. USA voeding > >Is this of any interest to anyone? Its in Holland, but I can go >grab it for whoever wants it. > >Cheers, > Fred >-- >Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist >Visit the VAXlab Project at http://www.pdp11.nl/VAXlab/ >Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ >Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Sunnyvale, CA, USA > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Oct 29 07:51:59 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:40 2005 Subject: hmm... new batch of search engine mailers :) In-Reply-To: <200310282002.MAA27863@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031029085159.008e83a0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 12:02 PM 10/28/03 -0800, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: >>From: Joe >> >---snip--- >> >> >>> >>>Remember, the list is here to try to HELP people with classic computer >>>stuff, which includes giving/selling stuff to people that need/want it. >>>It annoys the hell out of me everytime I see this topic pop up, after Jay >>>has already explained what's going on. >> >> And it annoys me to have to wade through piles of messages from clueless >>people asking for or about things that happened so long ago that I don't >>even remember what the conversation was about or who posted it. on top of >>that, I've tried helping a number of them and 99% of them never have the >>courtesy to reply. One batch of CC list messages that I got this weekend >>had nine messages in it and SEVEN of them were this type messages. Frankly >>I get tired of the "I see you have an Altair. I'll take it if it's free and >>you're willing to pay the shipping and guarantee that it works." type >>messages. >> > >Hi > The problem seems to be that there is some ulterior motive >for these post. The fact that none reply indicates that these >people are after something other than help from list members. >What that is, I don't know. I have stopped replying to these >until I know what they are up to. > It could be some form of address gathering but the messages >indicate that they took some time to compose the message >( although the content tends to lack knowledge of the subject ). >It is possible that there is some kind of AI application >harvesting addresses from replies. The messages have just >enough similarity to let me believe this might be true. >Dwight > Excellent point! I wonder if there's a easy way to check out their address before replying to it. Anyone know? Joe From jwest at classiccmp.org Wed Oct 29 07:55:39 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:40 2005 Subject: HP 262x terminal help sought References: <014501c39dc8$35546810$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> <00d101c39df9$9da5c450$6a00a8c0@athlon> Message-ID: <001401c39e24$561c1c80$033310ac@kwcorp.com> all over, but MOSTLY around the edges. Please share your idea to fix this! Thanks Jay ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Brown" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2003 2:49 AM Subject: Re: HP 262x terminal help sought > Jay > > Are the spots all over the screen area or mainly around the edges? I had > this issue a while back with a HP 9845 screen- If the screens are similar, > then it's not easy, but it CAN be fixed. > > Dave Brown > Christchurch, NZ > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jay West" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2003 3:56 PM > Subject: HP 262x terminal help sought > > > > I have a 262x HP terminal, think it's a 2624. It is the "ET head" style. I > > got it years ago and stuck it in a corner of the basement, and just got it > > out to clean it and get it up and running. It now has lots of white spots > > under the glass. Looks like mold to me. Nice perfectly round dots. But the > > thing is they are UNDER the glass. Is anyone familiar with this terminal > > enough to tell me if it's now dumpster material or can this glass be > reached > > under or taken off somehow? > > > > Thanks in advance! > > > > Jay West > > > > > > --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From jbmcb at hotmail.com Wed Oct 29 08:14:28 2003 From: jbmcb at hotmail.com (Jason McBrien) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:40 2005 Subject: WTB: SCSI cable (OT) References: <3F9FC10B.2010707@charter.net> Message-ID: Try Cyberguys, http://www.cyberguys.com/ Pretty good, cheap SCSI cables. They have all kinds of neat, reasonably priced stuff, accessory-wise at least. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "James Rice" Cc: Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2003 8:53 AM Subject: Re: WTB: SCSI cable (OT) > > Contact the people at http://www.mocconsulting.com/. They're local to me, > but they ship. They're Good People (tm). > > Peace... Sridhar > > On Wed, 29 Oct 2003, James Rice wrote: > > > I'm looking for a SCSI cable. I need one that is a HD68 with screws to > > Centronics 50 with the upper 9 bytes terminated. I haven't been able to > > find one locally in Dallas. It is for a (OT) Octane to Sgi SCSI-1 CD-ROM > > > > -- > > http://webpages.charter.net/jrice54/classiccomp2.html > > > > > > > From allain at panix.com Wed Oct 29 08:24:24 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:40 2005 Subject: Dealing with the Press References: Message-ID: <004601c39e28$5f8c0c40$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > Was it the NY times that fired a reporter this year for just making > stuff up in many of his articles? Yes. New York Times: Jayson Blair Washington Post: Steven Glass and now the Pulitzer prize people are now on the NYT's case about an award 70 years ago. For all the NYT publishes, this is still a pretty light load. John A. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Oct 29 08:03:46 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:40 2005 Subject: Manual 16c In-Reply-To: <01C397EF.270012C0.comex@vigamil.cl> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031029090346.00800b10@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I'm assuming that you mean for the HP-16C. If so go the the HP Calculator museum (http://www.hpmuseum.org/) and buy the set of manual CDs. That's the only place where you're likely to find one other than $$E-Bay$$. Joe At 04:19 PM 10/21/03 -0400, you wrote: > > Hi Brian. > > I need the manual of 16C, I seek all place, but can?t find. > Can you help me? > From wh.sudbrink at verizon.net Wed Oct 29 08:43:16 2003 From: wh.sudbrink at verizon.net (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:40 2005 Subject: HP 262x terminal help sought In-Reply-To: <1067407346.2141.20.camel@nazgul.shiresoft.com> Message-ID: > I have a 262x HP terminal, think it's a 2624. It is the "ET head" style. I > got it years ago and stuck it in a corner of the basement, and just got it > out to clean it and get it up and running. It now has lots of white spots > under the glass. Looks like mold to me. Nice perfectly round dots. But the > thing is they are UNDER the glass. Is anyone familiar with this terminal > enough to tell me if it's now dumpster material or can this glass be reached > under or taken off somehow? I pulled out my best ADM-3 the other day... kept in a cool (65-75 F), dry basement and the same blasted thing has happened to it. Fortunately, I also have a ratty one that I haven't had as long and its CRT is OK (though a little image burned). I'll get around to swapping the CRTs this weekend (hopefully). Did anybody figure out what causes this? From jpl15 at panix.com Wed Oct 29 09:14:22 2003 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:40 2005 Subject: hmm... new batch of search engine mailers :) AND Re: RFQ Fluke pods In-Reply-To: <00c701c39dc3$4fbf0c50$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> References: <001b01c3996b$08a8daa0$cbce4142@Art> <3.0.6.32.20031028114614.007d1cf0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <00c701c39dc3$4fbf0c50$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: On Tue, 28 Oct 2003, Jay West wrote: > ok, I give. Yes, you give a great deal - that mainly goes unapprecieated by some of us (a lot of us) ((most of us))... everybody in the office wants the thermostat set for thier comfort zone, and wants their music on the MOH on the phone system... so everybody hates the Facilities person. ;{} C'est la vie... > member has been kind enough to offer his time to you all to help keep the > flow of moderated posts going, and to more closely check the content. I > could always use another person or two to help flag posts as > "accept/reject/discard". Any takers? Joe, you offering? :) > I am able to do this on an almost daily basis, save when infrequently travelling - then there might be a day's delay until I can get to a Net connection. I volunteer to 'screen' no-subbed posts. What's ironic is that I've volunteered to do just this, every time this cranky old subject comes up. It's really too simple, and every other maillist I belong to has it pretty well worked out. Put the 'listname' in the 'Subject:' field automagically - Provide PROMINENT sub-unsub info (for Lusers to ignore so we can right properly flame 'em...). Tolerate the Googlers - most folks DO NOT KNOW what a mailing list is or how it works, so yes, they think they're replying to an e-mail - how else would they know??? You guys who are so down on every one of these type posts are getting just a bit old-net-school elitist and curmudgeonly... just DELETE the damn things and get on with your life... it's not like there a hundred posts a day - "I saw your message about VCF 1 and I'd like to know where it is and..." Be vigilant for the 'abusers' - guys who are trolling us looking for merchandise, rather than collectors of sincere people with a legacy computing problem we can help solve, or with some choice gear they'd otherwise be dumpstering ("skipping"??). Just lighten up a bit - It's Only a Hobby. (C'ept for maybe Sellam...) More 200 Millidollars from John KB6SCO From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Oct 29 09:27:31 2003 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:41 2005 Subject: How about a PDP-10? (RE: A real PDP-8 that you can hang on yo ur w all!) In-Reply-To: <1A9EACFF5B9EB9489F00104C00ECF641027B0E07@hqvenlomail.oce.nl> References: <1A9EACFF5B9EB9489F00104C00ECF641027B0E07@hqvenlomail.oce.nl> Message-ID: >Well, I do not know (did not check...) the PDP-10 support in SIMH >*if* it is available. Otherwise you could add the PDP-10 :-) SIMH supports the KS10 (it didn't have a front panel, just something like three switches), for KL10B support you need to go with KLH10 (or maybe TS10, I'm not sure how far it has progressed). Only the KS10 and KL10 are currently supported by emulation. I believe the FPGA Clone being done by David G. Conroy is a cross between a KA10 and the KL/KS. I think the one that Neil Franklin's working on is a cross between a KS, KL, and XKL10. For a rundown on the mostly current state of PDP-10 emulation, see: http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/pdp10emu.html http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/pdp_fpga.html >I am still working (though it's been a year since I actually have >spent time on it) on a self-made PDP-11/40 console that can be >connected to E11. However, that would also require some work to >be done by John Wilson. Within a few months I will start work on >the adaptation of the SIMH code to include this *real* console. >E11 support is for later ... >For an impression see www.pdp-11.nl click the link "homebrew PDP-11". SIMH doesn't currently include any support for connecting real hardware does it? ISTR, that E11 has at least partial support for this. Zane -- -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From dancohoe at oxford.net Wed Oct 29 09:45:39 2003 From: dancohoe at oxford.net (Dan Cohoe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:41 2005 Subject: HP 262x terminal help sought In-Reply-To: <001401c39e24$561c1c80$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <004001c39e33$b4ba3a10$6401a8c0@DCOHOE> > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Jay West > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2003 8:56 AM > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: HP 262x terminal help sought > > > all over, but MOSTLY around the edges. Please share your idea > to fix this! > > Thanks > I suppose many will think this is cheating and that it doesn't really address the problem, but I know where there are quite a few of these terminals available that I imagine will eventually just be junked. I'd suggest just getting one of them for parts to fix your terminal Jay. Meanwhile, let the repair procedure debate flow. regards, Dan Cohoe From waltje at pdp11.nl Wed Oct 29 09:50:11 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:41 2005 Subject: HP 82161A Digital Cassette Drive found In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20031029084805.0079a630@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: Joe, > It's a micro cassette battery powered tape drive with an HP-IL interface. > It's used with the HP-41, HP-71, HP-75 calculators. It's DEFINITELY worth > grabbing but shipping to the US might be a bit expensive so it would be > best for a European member to grab it. The tapes are HARD to get. Are there > any with it? Doesnt say, but will contact the seller and check. Will grab the unit anyways, and bring it along when going back to the US in Dec; shipping from there (94089) will be lots cheaper ;-) --f From jwest at classiccmp.org Wed Oct 29 10:11:53 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:41 2005 Subject: HP 262x terminal help sought References: <004001c39e33$b4ba3a10$6401a8c0@DCOHOE> Message-ID: <008a01c39e37$5e2b6d00$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Normally I would go the time consuming method to repair this, and probably will. But if I HAD another one of these terminals, due to lack of time I'd just skip this one. Can't believe I just said that! Jay > I suppose many will think this is cheating and that it doesn't really > address the problem, but I know where there are quite a few of these > terminals available that I imagine will eventually just be junked. --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From waltje at pdp11.nl Wed Oct 29 10:11:47 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:41 2005 Subject: hmm... new batch of search engine mailers :) AND Re: RFQ Fluke pods In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > ok, I [Jay] give. > Yes, you give a great deal - that mainly goes unapprecieated by some of > us (a lot of us) ((most of us))... Yes, I would agree here. > everybody in the office wants the > thermostat set for thier comfort zone, and wants their music on the MOH on > the phone system... so everybody hates the Facilities person. ;{} Oh, did I mention I just fired one? :) > I am able to do this on an almost daily basis, save when infrequently > travelling - then there might be a day's delay until I can get to a Net > connection. > > I volunteer to 'screen' no-subbed posts. What's ironic is that I've > volunteered to do just this, every time this cranky old subject comes up. You have my vote, John. > Put the 'listname' in the 'Subject:' field > automagically - Oh, didnt we already flame this to death when I suggested it? > Just lighten up a bit - It's Only a Hobby. (C'ept for maybe Sellam...) Its his hobby too, though he often doesnt act like it :) Fred -- Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist Visit the VAXlab Project at http://www.pdp11.nl/VAXlab/ Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Sunnyvale, CA, USA From jwest at classiccmp.org Wed Oct 29 10:17:41 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:41 2005 Subject: hmm... new batch of search engine mailers :) AND Re: RFQ Fluke pods References: <001b01c3996b$08a8daa0$cbce4142@Art><3.0.6.32.20031028114614.007d1cf0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com><00c701c39dc3$4fbf0c50$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <00a301c39e38$2dd38560$033310ac@kwcorp.com> John wrote.... > Yes, you give a great deal - that mainly goes unapprecieated by some of > us (a lot of us) ((most of us))... everybody in the office wants the > thermostat set for thier comfort zone, and wants their music on the MOH on > the phone system... so everybody hates the Facilities person. ;{} Ya know, it's normally not a big deal at all. Just right now I have several of the other areas of my life conspiring to get in my face and usurp my hobby demmit! > I am able to do this on an almost daily basis, save when infrequently > travelling - then there might be a day's delay until I can get to a Net > connection. > > I volunteer to 'screen' no-subbed posts. What's ironic is that I've > volunteered to do just this, every time this cranky old subject comes up. You're hired. I'll contact you offlist. Jay --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From jwest at classiccmp.org Wed Oct 29 10:24:48 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:41 2005 Subject: list links fixed Message-ID: <00c801c39e39$2c22aba0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> I "upgraded" the custom classiccmp pages that Jeff Sharp wrote so that they now have the right post actions and variables set for the newer version of mailman. So now you can start at www.classiccmp.org and navigate to the lists, or just go to www.classiccmp.org/cctalk.html or www.classiccmp.org/cctech.html and things should work fine. I tested the "edit options" as well as subscribe/unsubscribe for both lists. On to the next problem! Oh, and my inbox is finally down a bit... just under 1000. WOOHOO! Jay --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From evan947 at yahoo.com Wed Oct 29 10:36:22 2003 From: evan947 at yahoo.com (evan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:41 2005 Subject: Dealing with the Press In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20031029163622.18939.qmail@web14006.mail.yahoo.com> LOL, I swear it: I've known maybe a hundred reporters in my career (spanning about eight years), and the vast majority are terrific. Of course I appreciate the kind words. It's all true :) --- Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Mon, 27 Oct 2003, evan wrote: > > > It really saddens me to see so much negativity > about > > how the press can only get it wrong, look for the > bad > > news, or generally miss the point. I suppose that > > Hi Evan. > > While I understand your reaction to the negative > comments being put forth > about reporters in general, I will say that there is > definitely a basis > for the negativity. Most of the many times I've > been interviewed, the > article came out in a way that made me embarassed to > have been quoted or > to have been the subject. > > Now, I realize your message was reactionary, but you > should realize that > you are one of the most impressive reporters and > researchers I have ever > known (and you know I've told you this many times > before). You are really > the exception to the norm (unfortunately). You are > probably very lucky > to work with the team that you do. You are most > likely insulated from > the schlock reporting that takes place. > > So anyway, don't take it as an affront. If you > want, I'll even point out > all the (many) inaccuracies in the various stories > I've presented in the > Press section of the VCF website: > > http://www.vintage.org/press.php > > ...then you'll know of what we speak ;) > > -- > > Sellam Ismail > Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || > Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at > http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > From vcf at siconic.com Wed Oct 29 11:09:17 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:41 2005 Subject: HP 262x terminal help sought In-Reply-To: <00d101c39df9$9da5c450$6a00a8c0@athlon> Message-ID: On Wed, 29 Oct 2003, Dave Brown wrote: > Are the spots all over the screen area or mainly around the edges? I had > this issue a while back with a HP 9845 screen- If the screens are similar, > then it's not easy, but it CAN be fixed. This is a quite common maladie. I have several monitors in my collection afflicted with this. I've not heard of any technique to fix this that doesn't involve either removing the outer layer of laminate on the CRT or replacing the CRT altogether. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Wed Oct 29 11:13:21 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:41 2005 Subject: HP 262x terminal help sought In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20031029084402.0079aa60@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 29 Oct 2003, Joe wrote: > A lot of the older HP stuff seems to be prone to it. I've had 9835s and > 9845s with the same problem. I have an old TV that has the same problem but > other than that I seldom see it. I wonder if the HP stuff is prone to that > or if other brand items just never last long enough to develope that > problem. FWIW I have HP scopes that date to the late '60s and early '70s > but I've never seen it on them. This does raise an interesting point: why are some CRTs susceptible and not others? Poor quality control? What kind of mold is this anyway? And what the hell is it feeding on? Based on what I know makes up a CRT, it must be some mutant radioactive strain of mold that is probably not to be trifled with. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Wed Oct 29 11:14:57 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:41 2005 Subject: HP 262x terminal help sought In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 29 Oct 2003, Bill Sudbrink wrote: > I pulled out my best ADM-3 the other day... kept in a cool (65-75 F), > dry basement and the same blasted thing has happened to it. Fortunately, > I also have a ratty one that I haven't had as long and its CRT is OK > (though a little image burned). I'll get around to swapping the CRTs > this weekend (hopefully). Did anybody figure out what causes this? I also have an ADM 3A where this has happened. In fact, I might have two like this. I wonder if it's a specific brand of CRT? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From lbickley at bickleywest.com Wed Oct 29 11:29:49 2003 From: lbickley at bickleywest.com (Lyle Bickley) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:41 2005 Subject: HP 262x terminal help sought In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200310290929.49560.lbickley@bickleywest.com> They probably used protein based glue - which when moist becomes a great culture medium. On the other hand, I like Sellam's idea of "mutant radioactive strain of mold" - it sounds like a lot more "fun" than "protein based glue" ;-) Lyle On Wednesday 29 October 2003 09:13, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Wed, 29 Oct 2003, Joe wrote: > > A lot of the older HP stuff seems to be prone to it. I've had 9835s > > and 9845s with the same problem. I have an old TV that has the same > > problem but other than that I seldom see it. I wonder if the HP stuff is > > prone to that or if other brand items just never last long enough to > > develope that problem. FWIW I have HP scopes that date to the late '60s > > and early '70s but I've never seen it on them. > > This does raise an interesting point: why are some CRTs susceptible and > not others? Poor quality control? What kind of mold is this anyway? And > what the hell is it feeding on? Based on what I know makes up a CRT, it > must be some mutant radioactive strain of mold that is probably not to be > trifled with. -- Lyle Bickley Bickley Consulting West Inc. Mountain View, CA 94040 "Black holes are where God is dividing by zero" From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Oct 29 11:57:26 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:41 2005 Subject: HP 262x terminal help sought In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031029125726.007efa80@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 09:14 AM 10/29/03 -0800, you wrote: >On Wed, 29 Oct 2003, Bill Sudbrink wrote: > >> I pulled out my best ADM-3 the other day... kept in a cool (65-75 F), >> dry basement and the same blasted thing has happened to it. Fortunately, >> I also have a ratty one that I haven't had as long and its CRT is OK >> (though a little image burned). I'll get around to swapping the CRTs >> this weekend (hopefully). Did anybody figure out what causes this? > >I also have an ADM 3A where this has happened. In fact, I might have two >like this. I wonder if it's a specific brand of CRT? Who made the CRTs for the ADM 3s? The ones used in the 9835s were made by Clinton Electronics. I THINK the ones used in the 9845s were also made by Clinton. Perhaps the name explains why they're so succeptable to crude! Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Oct 29 11:55:04 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:41 2005 Subject: HP 262x terminal help sought In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.32.20031029084402.0079aa60@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031029125504.007ee1e0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 09:13 AM 10/29/03 -0800, Sellam wrote: >On Wed, 29 Oct 2003, Joe wrote: > >> A lot of the older HP stuff seems to be prone to it. I've had 9835s and >> 9845s with the same problem. I have an old TV that has the same problem but >> other than that I seldom see it. I wonder if the HP stuff is prone to that >> or if other brand items just never last long enough to develope that >> problem. FWIW I have HP scopes that date to the late '60s and early '70s >> but I've never seen it on them. > >This does raise an interesting point: why are some CRTs susceptible and >not others? Poor quality control? I doubt it. More likely the type glue/adhasive that they use to bond the safety glass on with. What kind of mold is this anyway? And >what the hell is it feeding on? Based on what I know makes up a CRT, it >must be some mutant radioactive strain of mold that is probably not to be >trifled with. Perhaps that's why we haven't seen Steve on the list for awhile! :-/ Joe From kth at srv.net Wed Oct 29 12:05:48 2003 From: kth at srv.net (Kevin Handy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:41 2005 Subject: Manuals up for grabs In-Reply-To: <200310271151220391.1EA68DB6@192.168.42.129> References: <200310271151220391.1EA68DB6@192.168.42.129> Message-ID: <3FA0017C.3080109@srv.net> Bruce Lane wrote: > I've placed a number of 'classic' manuals up on E-pay. Among them are the DHV11 Technical Manual, the Installation and System Management guides for RSTS/E 9.7, the user's manual for the VAXstation 3100/M38 and for the VT220, and other nice goodies. > > You can do a 'Search by Seller' on 'bftbell' (sans quotes) if you're interested. Thanks much. > > > If anyone needs a DHV11 manual, contact me and I'll send you one for the shipping/packaging costs. From witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk Wed Oct 29 12:21:43 2003 From: witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk (Witchy) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:41 2005 Subject: Digital cards list (was: hardware/books clearout) Message-ID: Hi folks, Sorry its taken me a while to get round to listing the DEC cards I've got - it's half-term school holiday here so we're entertaining our little one :) This is all of them I think; there's a DEQNA and some RL02 logic/spares I'm keeping for my own RL02 for when I get it running on my PDP....heh.... All these came from storage in an electronics workshop but that's no guarantee they're in working order. The List: --------- Pro 380 floppy controller Pro 380 DECNA network card Oak Technology VGA, EISA card. (it's in the same box) M9058 MicroVAX disk distribution card M7546 TQK50 controller M8067 MSV11 memory, 2 off M8190 PDP 11/83 KDJ11-B cpu M8061 RLV12, 2 off M7621 MicroVAX memory M7606 MicroVAX II CPU M8189 PDP 11/23+ KDF11-B CPU, 2 off M7555 RQDX3 disk controller, 2 off M7559 TQK70 controller M8190 PDP 11/23 KDJ11 CPU, 2 off M9047 Grant continuity cards, 4 off but damaged purple tabs on all. There's also an H7848-BB PSU which I assume is from a MicroVAX 2000 or DECmate. Best offer after a week gets 'em. I'll contact those of you who've offered on the books and CDDS sets in the next day or so. cheers! -- adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - ex-monthly gothic shenanigans :o( From bill_mcdermith at yahoo.com Wed Oct 29 13:18:34 2003 From: bill_mcdermith at yahoo.com (Bill McDermith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:41 2005 Subject: HP 262x terminal help sought In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20031029084402.0079aa60@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <014501c39dc8$35546810$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> <014501c39dc8$35546810$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> <3.0.6.32.20031029084402.0079aa60@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3FA0128A.9090804@yahoo.com> The older HP scope tubes (and, in fact, all the ones for scopes up to the digital models, as well as the electrostatic deflection graphics displays) were made in the tube shop at HP in Colorado Springs, so the tube construction process was different, as HP made them internally (HP was known for quality construction at that time...) If I recall correctly, HP bought the magnetic deflection displays for terminals from a 3rd party... Probably got them all (Calculator displays 9835/9845 and 264x terminal displays) from the same company, though they were made by different divisions... Bill "it" below refers to mold between the safety glass shield and the tube surface... Joe wrote: > ...snip...snip...snip... > >FWIW I have HP scopes that date to the late '60s and early '70s >but I've never seen it on them. > > Joe > > From tractorb at ihug.co.nz Wed Oct 29 13:51:00 2003 From: tractorb at ihug.co.nz (Dave Brown) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:41 2005 Subject: Mould spots on CRT- (was Re: HP 262x terminal help sought) References: <014501c39dc8$35546810$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP><00d101c39df9$9da5c450$6a00a8c0@athlon> <001401c39e24$561c1c80$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <01a201c39e55$fa87abf0$6a00a8c0@athlon> Jay et al-- I originally posted this back in Sept last year- in reponse to a query from Steve L I think-but the subject line was not all that revealing if you went back thru the archives. ******* Subject: Re: Nifty Find - HP2644A > 2. Has anyone ever seen a CRT develop mold between the > (bonded to the tube) safety glass and the tube itself? Steve et al This sounds like the problem I had a month or so back with the CRT in a HP9845. Only in my case the mould spots had 'advanced' inwards from the edge of the screen around 2-3 inches. Not pretty! If you have a look you will probably find the 'seal' around the edge of the front of the tube is taped over- virtually no real moisture barrier at all for what is underneath. Further- you will almost certainly find that the front of the tube itself has a conventional bonded safety glass- the mould is in the layer of transparent 'goo' used to attach an additional anti-glare 'cosmetically appealing' dark glass to the front of the safety glass on an ordinary CRT. The 'goo' in the case of the 9845 CRT was very similar in texture to silicon rubber-possibly was- and the layer was a bit over an eighth of an inch thick. Likewise the dark glass on the front. (The I tried several solvents on the 'goo' (after removing CRT from 9845 of course!) and found ordinary petrol to be fairly effective- there are no doubt better solvents but it worked. Judicious use of a piece of piano wire and weights was tried, with the CRT mounted in a temporary wooden frame, but the most rapid way to get the goo out was (you are outside or in a well ventilated area - right!) to dribble a generous amount of petrol into the goo- wait about a minute, and carefully dig out the softened stuff with a long thin screwdriver. It's tedious work and I did it in several stages but it was not difficult. End result- cleaned 'em up and got a perfectly useable CRT and separate 'anti glare' glass. I reassembled them with an air gap and 'goo' in the screen corners only- its easy enuff to get into the gap and clean it out now- should the need arise again. Visually no difference- except maybe a bit brighter screen image. Essential point to note- make sure the tube has a bonded safety glass-- in this case it was difficult to actually tell till I had it out and removed all the black tape around the edge of the screen. DaveB Ch Ch NZ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jay West" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2003 2:55 AM Subject: Re: HP 262x terminal help sought > all over, but MOSTLY around the edges. Please share your idea to fix this! > > Thanks > > Jay From ghldbrd at ccp.com Wed Oct 29 14:05:17 2003 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (ghldbrd@ccp.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:41 2005 Subject: WTB: SCSI cable (OT) In-Reply-To: <3F9FC10B.2010707@charter.net> References: <3F9FC10B.2010707@charter.net> Message-ID: <3523.65.123.179.134.1067457917.squirrel@webmail.ccp.com> SCSI-3 to SCSI-1 cable, should be available. I found one in Cedar Rapids IA couple years ago. You'll have to figure out how to terminate the lines though. Gary Hildebrand St. Joseph, MO > I'm looking for a SCSI cable. I need one that is a HD68 with screws to > Centronics 50 with the upper 9 bytes terminated. I haven't been able to > find one locally in Dallas. It is for a (OT) Octane to Sgi SCSI-1 CD-ROM > > -- > http://webpages.charter.net/jrice54/classiccomp2.html > > > > From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Oct 29 14:07:04 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:41 2005 Subject: hmm... new batch of search engine mailers :) AND Re: RFQ Fluke pods In-Reply-To: <00c701c39dc3$4fbf0c50$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> References: <001b01c3996b$08a8daa0$cbce4142@Art> <3.0.6.32.20031028114614.007d1cf0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <00c701c39dc3$4fbf0c50$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <20031029120119.Q52774@newshell.lmi.net> On Tue, 28 Oct 2003, Grumpy Ol' Jay West wrote: > Ok, enough whiny sarcasm on my part. I'm actually in a heated contest with > "Grumpy Ol' Fred" to steal his "Grumpy" title *GRIN* But seriously, one list There is no finite limit on how many can be grumpy, although realisticly things don't work well if there are too many curmudgeons. My grumpiness comes from chronic pain and dealing with college administrators (I teach). But we are surely enough of a pain in the ass to justify you being grumpy. Thank you for putting up with us. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From dwight.elvey at amd.com Wed Oct 29 14:24:53 2003 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:41 2005 Subject: hmm... new batch of search engine mailers :) AND Re: RFQ Fluke pods Message-ID: <200310292024.MAA28696@clulw009.amd.com> >From: "John Lawson" > ---snip--- > > Tolerate the Googlers - most folks DO NOT KNOW what a mailing list is or >how it works, so yes, they think they're replying to an e-mail - how else >would they know??? You guys who are so down on every one of these type >posts are getting just a bit old-net-school elitist and curmudgeonly... >just DELETE the damn things and get on with your life... it's not like >there a hundred posts a day - "I saw your message about VCF 1 and I'd like >to know where it is and..." > Hi John You seem to miss the point. These post do not seem to be coming from people that are actually looking for help or anything related to classic computers. I have responded to about ten of these before giving up. I all ten cases, I did not receive one reply, even though I offered to provide the help or information they requested. This leads me to believe that these are not just honest post from fellow computer people but some form of address mining operation. I could be wrong but I still waiting to see. Dwight From tothwolf at concentric.net Wed Oct 29 15:16:41 2003 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:41 2005 Subject: WTB: SCSI cable (OT) In-Reply-To: <3F9FC10B.2010707@charter.net> References: <3F9FC10B.2010707@charter.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 29 Oct 2003, James Rice wrote: > I'm looking for a SCSI cable. I need one that is a HD68 with screws to > Centronics 50 with the upper 9 bytes terminated. I haven't been able to > find one locally in Dallas. It is for a (OT) Octane to Sgi SCSI-1 > CD-ROM Your best bet might be to use a high byte terminator/adapter and a standard cable. Paralan [http://www.paralan.com/] used to make such adapters, but I don't see them listed now. Overall their products are a bit pricey, but are of extremely high quality. I'd suggest you have a look at the section of the comp.periphs.scsi FAQ that addresses these adapters. It include a list of vendors that can supply these adapters/cables. The section is "Can I connect a narrow device to my WIDE SCSI host adapter?" which can be found here: http://fieldhome.net:9080/scsi_faq/scsifaq.html#_Hlk410547920 There is also a warning near the end of the section about mis-wired adapters and TERMPWR that you should be aware of. I've come across some of those mis-wired adapters that are mentioned there. -Toth From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Oct 29 15:13:12 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:41 2005 Subject: HP 262x terminal help sought In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20031029084402.0079aa60@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> from "Joe" at Oct 29, 3 08:44:02 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 682 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20031029/1eaf2d9c/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Oct 29 15:15:32 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:41 2005 Subject: HP 82161A Digital Cassette Drive found In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20031029084805.0079a630@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> from "Joe" at Oct 29, 3 08:48:05 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 562 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20031029/805b9686/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Oct 29 15:19:52 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:41 2005 Subject: HP 262x terminal help sought In-Reply-To: from "Vintage Computer Festival" at Oct 29, 3 09:13:21 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 515 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20031029/412f0d2d/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Oct 29 15:26:13 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:41 2005 Subject: Dealing with the Press In-Reply-To: <39056.64.169.63.74.1067362518.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> from "Eric Smith" at Oct 28, 3 09:35:18 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1120 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20031029/b86e8e21/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Oct 29 15:10:02 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:41 2005 Subject: sticky Sony 3.5" drive In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20031029081200.007fe5c0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> from "Joe" at Oct 29, 3 08:12:00 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2644 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20031029/3dac45b4/attachment.ksh From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed Oct 29 15:46:40 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:41 2005 Subject: list change In-Reply-To: Vintage Computer Festival "Re: list change" (Oct 28, 22:22) References: Message-ID: <10310292146.ZM18417@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Oct 28, 22:22, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Tue, 28 Oct 2003, Pete Turnbull wrote: > > Because it's not two lists. It's two views of the same list -- > It's sort of like Quantum Physics. Only more complicated. Yup, more uncertainty principles :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From aek at spies.com Wed Oct 29 16:13:02 2003 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:41 2005 Subject: pdf archive back on line Message-ID: <200310292213.h9TMD2Vc025027@spies.com> The archive has moved to one of the archiving domains that I have, so please change any links you have to: www.bitsavers.org/pdf --al From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Wed Oct 29 16:20:01 2003 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:41 2005 Subject: HP 262x terminal help sought (Going OT)(Overthe top) Message-ID: In line with the protein glue idea, maybe the only thing that keeps the mold from normally growing is the x-rays created when the system is on. Store the system = no x-rays I therefore coin the slogan "Terminals use them or they will grow on you" It may be that x-ray sterilization may be the explanation of some of our behaviors while collecting computers. Mike (may be sterile and not even know it) From donm at cts.com Wed Oct 29 16:27:59 2003 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:41 2005 Subject: HP 262x terminal help sought In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20031029084402.0079aa60@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 29 Oct 2003, Joe wrote: > At 10:02 PM 10/28/03 -0800, you wrote: > >On Tue, 2003-10-28 at 18:56, Jay West wrote: > >> I have a 262x HP terminal, think it's a 2624. It is the "ET head" style. I > >> got it years ago and stuck it in a corner of the basement, and just got it > >> out to clean it and get it up and running. It now has lots of white spots > >> under the glass. Looks like mold to me. Nice perfectly round dots. But the > >> thing is they are UNDER the glass. Is anyone familiar with this terminal > >> enough to tell me if it's now dumpster material or can this glass be > reached > >> under or taken off somehow? > > > >I've never seen it, but I heard about it. Apparently these are famous > >for it (for some reason). I don't know what the solution is (if there > >is one). > >-- > > > >TTFN - Guy > > A lot of the older HP stuff seems to be prone to it. I've had 9835s and > 9845s with the same problem. I have an old TV that has the same problem but > other than that I seldom see it. I wonder if the HP stuff is prone to that > or if other brand items just never last long enough to develope that > problem. FWIW I have HP scopes that date to the late '60s and early '70s > but I've never seen it on them. > > Joe I suspect that it is more a function of who produced the tube. I have a DEC VR201 that also has the same problem. - don From arcarlini at iee.org Wed Oct 29 16:31:00 2003 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:41 2005 Subject: Dealing with the Press In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000701c39e6c$57a36b10$5b01a8c0@athlon> > the microwaves used in the microwave oven have the same frequency as > visible light (they meant 'speed' but there's one heck of a > difference). Hard to miss that one! > game 'Elite' which described the Acorn Atom as using a Mostek 6502 > microprocessor (AFAIK Mostek never made the 6502, MOS technology, It's easier to forgive the Grauniad that one ... there's no obvious physical reason why Mostek could not have made a 6502 :-) Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From jwest at classiccmp.org Wed Oct 29 17:54:31 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:41 2005 Subject: ADMIN: another RFC Message-ID: <002001c39e77$ff1551f0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> This guy asked nicely to join the list.. I asked him what he collects and below is the response I got. As I said before, I don't intend to post these kinds of emails to the list, but this one I'm a little torn on and not sure what to do. Do you guys think this person should be on the list? Let him on with a warning? I'm kinda leaning towards "no", but... You guys tell me! Jay ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Rowe" To: "Jay West" Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2003 4:56 PM Subject: RE: membership to your mailing list > hi jay, > > i buy/sell surplus computer and test and measurement equipment so i have a > warehouse full of vintage stuff such as...... > > _ industrial computer source model 8630-rm-8mb > _ ibm 7015 > _ texas micro systems 3014 > _ digital technology dti-5750 fddi network analyzer > _ proteon p4200-31 > _ american automation ez-pro development system aa545/546 68k in circuit > emulator > _ dec microvax II > _ force computers teraforce-2ce model summa 4 tera > _ magnetic peripherals removable storage drive > _ zenith vsb modulator > _ nortel fmt-150c fiber multiplex terminal > _ tekelec > _ radisys > _ first pacific networks telephone interface unit model tiu178 > _ bellcore network services test unit > _ tau-tron > > > to name a few. thnax. > > bill From jrkeys at concentric.net Wed Oct 29 18:19:27 2003 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (Keys) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:41 2005 Subject: ADMIN: another RFC References: <002001c39e77$ff1551f0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <008801c39e7b$7c34b1a0$1a0cdd40@oemcomputer> My vote would be to give him a chance with a warning. (my 2 cents) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jay West" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2003 5:54 PM Subject: ADMIN: another RFC > This guy asked nicely to join the list.. I asked him what he collects and > below is the response I got. As I said before, I don't intend to post these > kinds of emails to the list, but this one I'm a little torn on and not sure > what to do. Do you guys think this person should be on the list? Let him on > with a warning? I'm kinda leaning towards "no", but... You guys tell me! > > Jay > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bill Rowe" > To: "Jay West" > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2003 4:56 PM > Subject: RE: membership to your mailing list > > > > hi jay, > > > > i buy/sell surplus computer and test and measurement equipment so i have a > > warehouse full of vintage stuff such as...... > > > > _ industrial computer source model 8630-rm-8mb > > _ ibm 7015 > > _ texas micro systems 3014 > > _ digital technology dti-5750 fddi network analyzer > > _ proteon p4200-31 > > _ american automation ez-pro development system aa545/546 68k in circuit > > emulator > > _ dec microvax II > > _ force computers teraforce-2ce model summa 4 tera > > _ magnetic peripherals removable storage drive > > _ zenith vsb modulator > > _ nortel fmt-150c fiber multiplex terminal > > _ tekelec > > _ radisys > > _ first pacific networks telephone interface unit model tiu178 > > _ bellcore network services test unit > > _ tau-tron > > > > > > to name a few. thnax. > > > > bill > > From jcwren at jcwren.com Wed Oct 29 18:41:54 2003 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:41 2005 Subject: ADMIN: another RFC In-Reply-To: <002001c39e77$ff1551f0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> References: <002001c39e77$ff1551f0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <200310291941.54683.jcwren@jcwren.com> I have my own take on people selling in this list, which isn't anywhere near as extreme as Sellams. I think it's perfectly OK for people with commercial equipment to *occasionally* post a list, or a link to their site, *providing* the equipment for sale is relevant to the charter of the list. There's a lot of vintage gear in the hands of people who are commercial salvage ops, etc. The more exposed those of us who are not commercial entities, or who don't have the "ins" that some people have to these people, the better. I'll cheerfully buy a PDP-8/e from a commercial dealer as quickly as I would a list member (assuming it's in the ballpark for my thin wallet). What's important to me is that equipment doesn't get scrapped and trashed. If a commercial dealer wants to make some money, well, he's got to have a livelyhood, too. If it keeps a PDP-11/23 from hitting the scrapyard, I'm all for it. I just don't want it to be as intrusive as spam. Limit commercial postings to once a month, or a criteria that it clearly meets "xyz" requirement. Firmly apply the 10 year rule, or perhaps a 15 year rule. We don't need 486 mobos by the trailer listed, they're common junk (to me. Others may have differing opinions, but I'm talking about mine). Better, require someone who's posting commercial bans to clearly put it [Commercial] in the subject, so the hyperphobic on the list can filter it. Drop the user if they fail to put the [commercial] tag in. I personally thought some people were a little over the edge on the PDP-11/23 issue. They certainly wasted a lot more bandwidth than just ignoring it, which is what I do for posts that don't interest me. I don't care if it's on eBay, QVC, or the local newspaper, the point is if someone can save an old machine, that's the priority. You have eBay-phobia? Put a damn filter in your mail to delete all posts with 'ebay.com.*item=' That way, you'll never have to look at another post regarding eBay. If you're going to be self-contradictive and don't filter, then don't bitch about posts like that. Just save the hardware. --John On Wednesday 29 October 2003 18:54 pm, Jay West wrote: > This guy asked nicely to join the list.. I asked him what he collects and > below is the response I got. As I said before, I don't intend to post these > kinds of emails to the list, but this one I'm a little torn on and not sure > what to do. Do you guys think this person should be on the list? Let him on > with a warning? I'm kinda leaning towards "no", but... You guys tell me! > > Jay > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bill Rowe" > To: "Jay West" > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2003 4:56 PM > Subject: RE: membership to your mailing list > > > hi jay, > > > > i buy/sell surplus computer and test and measurement equipment so i have > > a warehouse full of vintage stuff such as...... > > > > _ industrial computer source model 8630-rm-8mb > > _ ibm 7015 > > _ texas micro systems 3014 > > _ digital technology dti-5750 fddi network analyzer > > _ proteon p4200-31 > > _ american automation ez-pro development system aa545/546 68k in circuit > > emulator > > _ dec microvax II > > _ force computers teraforce-2ce model summa 4 tera > > _ magnetic peripherals removable storage drive > > _ zenith vsb modulator > > _ nortel fmt-150c fiber multiplex terminal > > _ tekelec > > _ radisys > > _ first pacific networks telephone interface unit model tiu178 > > _ bellcore network services test unit > > _ tau-tron > > > > > > to name a few. thnax. > > > > bill From jpl15 at panix.com Wed Oct 29 18:54:36 2003 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:41 2005 Subject: ADMIN: another RFC In-Reply-To: <002001c39e77$ff1551f0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> References: <002001c39e77$ff1551f0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: I'd just tell him that the List is for collectors / hobbyists, and while surplusers and dealers on the list being subscribed is not a bad thing per-se, he should understand that we are not businessmen or brokers, so if he offers Stuff it should be on that basis, and not to troll the LIst with items outside the charter - then welcome him aboard. Maybe he forgot about the room full of PDP-6s that he's had in storage for 20 years... it happens! Same goes for the rest of the "Dealer" folks - as long as they stick to our guidelines and don't abuse anyone - then I think they'd be a very valuable source of potential 'finds' - after all - these are the people who are aout all day dealing in used and surplus gear... a lot of them, one I have known for 35 years... won't even consider Minis and that class of gear because it's heavy and no-one wants the stuff anymore... so they all dont' even bother bidding. Many beautiful machines have gone to scrap therefore... ;{ My 2 centz Cheers John From arcarlini at iee.org Wed Oct 29 19:05:48 2003 From: arcarlini at iee.org (Antonio Carlini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:41 2005 Subject: ADMIN: another RFC In-Reply-To: <200310291941.54683.jcwren@jcwren.com> Message-ID: <000d01c39e81$f4f088c0$5b01a8c0@athlon> > I have my own take on people selling in this list, > which isn't anywhere near > as extreme as Sellams. I think it's perfectly OK for people > with commercial Is he joining the list to try and sell his stuff? That wasn't clear from his email. I'd say let him join, pointing out that the purpose of the list is NOT to act as as a an advertising service for a commercial vendor - maybe Sellam could point him towards the VCM for that :-) You can always remove subscribers from the list if they repeatedly demonstrate that they have no intention of even trying to stay on topic. Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org From wmaddox at pacbell.net Wed Oct 29 19:25:11 2003 From: wmaddox at pacbell.net (William Maddox) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:41 2005 Subject: New member introduction, questions on HP 21XX series machines, reliability and maintainability Message-ID: <20031030012511.91732.qmail@web80502.mail.yahoo.com> Hi, all. I just joined the list. I've had a long-time interest in old computers, and rescued a "straight-8" many years ago when I didn't think anyone else thought of it as anything more than junk. It was at least minimally operable when I obtained it, but I went off to graduate school before I could find any software for it, and it's been in storage at my father's office in Florida for ~15 years now. I hope to move it to my current location in the next few months after a family visit, but in the meantime, I'm looking to acquire another minicomputer from the core memory era, hopefully something slightly more compactly packaged than the (presently rackless) rack-mount "8". After some research, I have settled on the HP21xx line as a good candidate. These seem to be very nice, well-built machines with a reasonable architecture, a good paper-tape BASIC, and a full complement of "blinkenlights". It seems that these machines are actually still used, however, and I've been quoted some pretty steep prices from a nearby dealer in in used HP gear. I'd be interested in comments and advice for a prospective 21xx owner from those on the list who own these machines or have used them. I'm particularly concerned about reliability, since at the price I expect to pay, I want to keep it operating for a long time to come. How difficult and expensive are they to troubleshoot and keep working (say, compared to DEC PDP-8)? How available are contemporary replacements and/or new old stock for the ICs? Are there any proprietary components that are particularly prone to failure or hard to replace that I absolutely must obtain up-front as spares? What about the core stacks themselves? The dealer that I talked to seemed to think these were problematic (though I did not speak with his technicians), while my instinct would be that the core itself (not the driver electronics) would be among the most reliable and stable components, barring visible corrosion damage. Also, any suggestions on places to look for these machines on the cheap would be welcomed. What I'm most looking for is a 2115, but would likely be interested in the somewhat later 2100 as well. Thanks, Bill From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed Oct 29 19:18:55 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:41 2005 Subject: ADMIN: another RFC In-Reply-To: "Jay West" "ADMIN: another RFC" (Oct 29, 17:54) References: <002001c39e77$ff1551f0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <10310300118.ZM18615@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Oct 29, 17:54, Jay West wrote: > This guy asked nicely to join the list.. I asked him what he collects and > below is the response I got. As I said before, I don't intend to post these > kinds of emails to the list, but this one I'm a little torn on and not sure > what to do. Do you guys think this person should be on the list? Let him on > with a warning? I'm kinda leaning towards "no", but... You guys tell me! I lean towards the "yes, but.." side. How much harm can he be? Might one or two people get something out of it? Might his subscription succumb to bit rot if he misbehaves? I've seen his name somewhere else but I can't think where, offhand. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From rcini at optonline.net Wed Oct 29 19:57:34 2003 From: rcini at optonline.net (Richard A. Cini) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:41 2005 Subject: ADMIN: another RFC In-Reply-To: <002001c39e77$ff1551f0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <000301c39e89$30395e00$1601a8c0@bbrdhveies50vd> My vote is to let him on with a warning. If his primary business it to deal in equipment, maybe restrict him to X number of posts per week/month. Collectively we're pretty good enforcers of the rules and if he steps outside, he'll pay. Rich Cini Collector of classic computers Build Master for the Altair32 Emulation Project Web site: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ /************************************************************/ -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Jay West Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2003 6:55 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: ADMIN: another RFC This guy asked nicely to join the list.. I asked him what he collects and below is the response I got. As I said before, I don't intend to post these kinds of emails to the list, but this one I'm a little torn on and not sure what to do. Do you guys think this person should be on the list? Let him on with a warning? I'm kinda leaning towards "no", but... You guys tell me! Jay ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Rowe" To: "Jay West" Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2003 4:56 PM Subject: RE: membership to your mailing list > hi jay, > > i buy/sell surplus computer and test and measurement equipment so i have a > warehouse full of vintage stuff such as...... > > _ industrial computer source model 8630-rm-8mb > _ ibm 7015 > _ texas micro systems 3014 > _ digital technology dti-5750 fddi network analyzer > _ proteon p4200-31 > _ american automation ez-pro development system aa545/546 68k in circuit > emulator > _ dec microvax II > _ force computers teraforce-2ce model summa 4 tera > _ magnetic peripherals removable storage drive > _ zenith vsb modulator > _ nortel fmt-150c fiber multiplex terminal > _ tekelec > _ radisys > _ first pacific networks telephone interface unit model tiu178 > _ bellcore network services test unit > _ tau-tron > > > to name a few. thnax. > > bill From aw288 at osfn.org Wed Oct 29 20:46:41 2003 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:41 2005 Subject: ADMIN: another RFC In-Reply-To: <200310291941.54683.jcwren@jcwren.com> Message-ID: > What's important to me is that equipment doesn't get scrapped and trashed. > If a commercial dealer wants to make some money, well, he's got to have a > livelyhood, too. If it keeps a PDP-11/23 from hitting the scrapyard, I'm all > for it. I've said it before...I'll say it again. Scrap and surplus dealers are our friends. They get more cool hardware and software than any hobbyist around, and if you get on the good side of one, he will bring forth many wonderful things. Get on the bad side of one (something it seems a lot of people on this list are itchin' to do), and he will bring forth many wonderful things, but smashed with his forklift. It should be noted that many dealers actively hang out on other lists devoted to other hobbies, and there is rarely ever any trouble. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From rhudson at cnonline.net Wed Oct 29 21:19:42 2003 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:41 2005 Subject: Another EBAY item, I wish I could get Message-ID: HP 2116B Computer System RARE!! Vintage 1969 or so it says: url = http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/ eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2761963221&category=1247 oh well, so far it's only up to 99.00 From jwest at classiccmp.org Wed Oct 29 21:25:30 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:41 2005 Subject: New member introduction, questions on HP 21XX series machines, reliability and maintainability References: <20031030012511.91732.qmail@web80502.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <01bf01c39e95$78e560c0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Well William, you've come to the right place. My particular obsession is HP21xx machines, and I've got about 9 or 10 of them. While I do have a fair amount of DEC gear, TONS of heathkit, and some DG stuff on the way, the HP21xx line is my passion. I also have tons of 790x drives, 13037 controllers, racks, etc. etc. I know there are a chunk of HP 21xx collectors here, about half active and and about half lurking. If you run into any issues I'd be happy to help. On to your questions.... > interest in old computers, and rescued a "straight-8" > many years ago when I didn't think anyone else > thought of it as anything more than junk. The holy grail *drool* > It was at > least minimally operable when I obtained it, but I > went off to graduate school before I could find any > software for it, and it's been in storage at my > father's office in Florida for ~15 years now. There is plenty of software on the net, and among the listmembers here, for the 8's. > After some research, I have settled on the HP21xx > line as a good candidate. These seem to be very nice, > well-built machines with a reasonable architecture, > a good paper-tape BASIC, and a full complement of > "blinkenlights". What? The HP21xx wasn't your FIRST choice over the straight-8? I'm HURT! :) > It seems that these machines are > actually still used, however, and I've been quoted > some pretty steep prices from a nearby dealer in > in used HP gear. Correct... they ran BCS, DOS, MTS, RTE, TSB, RJE, all kinds of different stuff. But RTE is what they still run a lot in industry, mostly in test & mesurement, and in the military. This keeps the prices somewhat high for them. On the bright side, they aren't terribly rare. At least the 21MX's aren't. The 2100's are pretty hard to find, the 2114/2115/2116's seem to be extremely hard to find. Well, except... search Ebay for 2116B and you'll see a beauty for sale! > I'd be interested in comments and advice for a > prospective 21xx owner from those on the list who own > these machines or have used them. I'm particularly > concerned about reliability, since at the price I > expect to pay, I want to keep it operating for a long > time to come. How difficult and expensive are they to Ok, Bob Shannon will vehemently disagree with me... but I think the 21MX's are extremely reliable (he'll agree there), but I think the 2100's are almost as reliable (he'll disagree here). The core memory section can be very troublesome to work on (to me at least) in the 2100. But at least with the 2100's, once you get one working, it generally runs forever. All the older HP stuff is built like a battleship, and pretty easy to work on. And very well engineered. >How available are contemporary replacements > and/or new old stock for the ICs? The bus driver IC's (DTL if I remember right) are scarce... BUT... there are so many 21MX's still in production use, most cards are plentiful, as are thus dead cards with bus chips that can be snagged. Microcode and boot roms (blank) are not impossible to find, but a bit scarce. >Are there any > proprietary components that are particularly prone to > failure or hard to replace that I absolutely must > obtain up-front as spares? servo platters and heads for 790x drives. Air filters. Spare cpu set. A decent vintage prom burner to save off rom images. Spare power supply. If you want to run TSB, the 12920/12921 mux set is required, and rare. > What about the core stacks > themselves? The dealer that I talked to seemed to > think these were problematic (though I did not speak > with his technicians), while my instinct would be that > the core itself (not the driver electronics) would be > among the most reliable and stable components, barring > visible corrosion damage. You are correct. The core "boards" go bad fairly frequently, pretty much never the core stack itself though. If it is a bit stuck on or bit stuck off, the repair is trivial. Why do I get the impression it's crisis that you've been talking to? :) Otherwise, the XYD and ID boards seem to be the more problematic. > Also, any suggestions on places to look for these > machines on the cheap would be welcomed. What I'm > most looking for is a 2115, but would likely be > interested in the somewhat later 2100 as well. As I said, 2115 will be kinda hard to find... crisis may be your best bet, albeit for real $$$. And there's a gorgeous 2116 on ebay. 2100's are around, but getting scarce. 21mx's are everywhere. Try scrap dealers. I have lots of 21MX's available for trade, and lots of associated peripherals. ok Bob, you know you're itching to chime in here :) Jay West From jwest at classiccmp.org Wed Oct 29 21:36:48 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:41 2005 Subject: Another EBAY item, I wish I could get References: Message-ID: <01d801c39e97$0ce943d0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> yeah, one went on ebay a couple weeks ago, now this one is up. They are gorgeous machines (but I'm biased). If this latest one is from the seller I think it likely is (haven't looked yet), it's completely refurbed and in perfect working order. But check the auction, I am not sure it's the same company. Jay West ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Hudson" To: "Classic Computers" Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2003 9:19 PM Subject: Another EBAY item, I wish I could get > HP 2116B Computer System RARE!! Vintage 1969 > > or so it says: > > url = > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/ > eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2761963221&category=1247 > > oh well, so far it's only up to 99.00 > > > From vcf at siconic.com Wed Oct 29 21:44:37 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:42 2005 Subject: VR241A Message-ID: Is anyone interested in a DEC VR241A (color RGB monitor)? If so, it's yours for 1.2 * shipping. Contact me privately, please. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Wed Oct 29 21:46:50 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:42 2005 Subject: ADMIN: another RFC In-Reply-To: <002001c39e77$ff1551f0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: On Wed, 29 Oct 2003, Jay West wrote: > This guy asked nicely to join the list.. I asked him what he collects and > below is the response I got. As I said before, I don't intend to post these > kinds of emails to the list, but this one I'm a little torn on and not sure > what to do. Do you guys think this person should be on the list? Let him on > with a warning? I'm kinda leaning towards "no", but... You guys tell me! I don't see why he should be excluded. If he makes a general nuisance of himself then we'll be sure to give him a sound drubbing as we always do to folks who abuse their presence, but everyone at least deserves the benefit of the doubt initially. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Wed Oct 29 21:49:28 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:42 2005 Subject: ADMIN: another RFC In-Reply-To: <200310291941.54683.jcwren@jcwren.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 29 Oct 2003, J.C. Wren wrote: > I have my own take on people selling in this list, which isn't > anywhere near as extreme as Sellams. I think it's perfectly OK for > people with commercial equipment to *occasionally* post a list, or a > link to their site, *providing* the equipment for sale is relevant to > the charter of the list. Um, excuse me, but before you go ahead and insinuate words into my mouth, please have the proper respect and allow me to make a comment before responding to the strawman. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From bshannon at tiac.net Wed Oct 29 22:14:13 2003 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:42 2005 Subject: New member introduction, questions on HP 21XX series machines, reliability and maintainability References: <20031030012511.91732.qmail@web80502.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3FA09015.5010606@tiac.net> HP 2113's can be found on eBay for $100 to $250, not that uncommonly. Many list members have machines of this class, I've got a rather large pile of these later-model semiconductor RAM machines, as well as a 'full set' of the original three core memory machines. Its a very easy machine to bootstrap with no peripherals, and a tiny programming language and O/S has been written to support these fine old machines. I think you made an excellent choice! William Maddox wrote: >Hi, all. > >I just joined the list. I've had a long-time >interest in old computers, and rescued a "straight-8" >many years ago when I didn't think anyone else >thought of it as anything more than junk. It was at >least minimally operable when I obtained it, but I >went off to graduate school before I could find any >software for it, and it's been in storage at my >father's office in Florida for ~15 years now. I hope >to move it to my current location in the next few >months after a family visit, but in the meantime, >I'm looking to acquire another minicomputer from >the core memory era, hopefully something slightly >more compactly packaged than the (presently rackless) >rack-mount "8". > >After some research, I have settled on the HP21xx >line as a good candidate. These seem to be very nice, >well-built machines with a reasonable architecture, >a good paper-tape BASIC, and a full complement of >"blinkenlights". It seems that these machines are >actually still used, however, and I've been quoted >some pretty steep prices from a nearby dealer in >in used HP gear. > >I'd be interested in comments and advice for a >prospective 21xx owner from those on the list who own >these machines or have used them. I'm particularly >concerned about reliability, since at the price I >expect to pay, I want to keep it operating for a long >time to come. How difficult and expensive are they to > >troubleshoot and keep working (say, compared to DEC >PDP-8)? How available are contemporary replacements >and/or new old stock for the ICs? Are there any >proprietary components that are particularly prone to >failure or hard to replace that I absolutely must >obtain up-front as spares? What about the core stacks >themselves? The dealer that I talked to seemed to >think these were problematic (though I did not speak >with his technicians), while my instinct would be that >the core itself (not the driver electronics) would be >among the most reliable and stable components, barring >visible corrosion damage. > >Also, any suggestions on places to look for these >machines on the cheap would be welcomed. What I'm >most looking for is a 2115, but would likely be >interested in the somewhat later 2100 as well. > >Thanks, > >Bill > From pat at purdueriots.com Wed Oct 29 22:58:17 2003 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:42 2005 Subject: MBR Products S-100? systems Message-ID: <200310292358.17706.pat@purdueriots.com> I've recently run across some "MBR Products Inc." systems, which appear to be controllers used in structural (like building materials) testing systems, and included an MTS 442 and MTS 438 (436?) "Controller" in one of the racks with the MBR units. As far as I can tell, the MBR machines are S-100 bus based rackmount machines, with a built-in keyboard and video display, and an 8" floppy drive connected to some of them. There's also some other smaller MBR systems with no drive attached, but they didn't easily come apart for me to see inside them : ). Does anyone know anything more about these things? They look like they might just be a generic S-100 bus system with some special peripheral I/O for data capture/controlling. The processor board is a CompuPro board with a Z80B on it, for instance. Thanks for any information! Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ From fmc at reanimators.org Wed Oct 29 23:44:25 2003 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:42 2005 Subject: HP 262x terminal help sought (Going OT)(Overthe top) In-Reply-To: (Mike McFadden's message of "Wed, 29 Oct 2003 16:20:01 -0600") References: Message-ID: <200310300544.h9U5iPEZ050996@daemonweed.reanimators.org> "McFadden, Mike" wrote: > In line with the protein glue idea, maybe the only thing that keeps the > mold from normally growing is the x-rays created when the system is on. I've seen this spotting on the CRT in an HP2645A that was used as the console for an HP3000/58 and thus turned on 24x7. -Frank McConnell From GOOI at oce.nl Thu Oct 30 00:52:42 2003 From: GOOI at oce.nl (Gooijen H) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:42 2005 Subject: list change Message-ID: <1A9EACFF5B9EB9489F00104C00ECF641027B0E0A@hqvenlomail.oce.nl> > -----Original Message----- > From: Pete Turnbull [mailto:pete@dunnington.u-net.com] > Sent: woensdag 29 oktober 2003 22:47 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: list change > > > On Oct 28, 22:22, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > On Tue, 28 Oct 2003, Pete Turnbull wrote: > > > > Because it's not two lists. It's two views of the same list -- > > > It's sort of like Quantum Physics. Only more complicated. > > Yup, more uncertainty principles :-) > > -- > Pete Peter Turnbull > Network Manager > University of York > Yes, for that we can install the Heisenberg coils to compensate. - Henk. From ggs at shiresoft.com Thu Oct 30 01:37:42 2003 From: ggs at shiresoft.com (Guy Sotomayor) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:42 2005 Subject: New member introduction, questions on HP 21XX series machines, reliability and maintainability In-Reply-To: <20031030012511.91732.qmail@web80502.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20031030012511.91732.qmail@web80502.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1067499461.2179.10.camel@nazgul.shiresoft.com> On Wed, 2003-10-29 at 17:25, William Maddox wrote: > I just joined the list. I've had a long-time > interest in old computers, and rescued a "straight-8" > many years ago when I didn't think anyone else > thought of it as anything more than junk. It was at > least minimally operable when I obtained it, but I > went off to graduate school before I could find any > software for it, and it's been in storage at my > father's office in Florida for ~15 years now. I hope > to move it to my current location in the next few > months after a family visit, but in the meantime, > I'm looking to acquire another minicomputer from > the core memory era, hopefully something slightly > more compactly packaged than the (presently rackless) > rack-mount "8". First, welcome to the list! Second, drool...a straight-8! Lucky guy!! > > After some research, I have settled on the HP21xx > line as a good candidate. These seem to be very nice, > well-built machines with a reasonable architecture, > a good paper-tape BASIC, and a full complement of > "blinkenlights". It seems that these machines are > actually still used, however, and I've been quoted > some pretty steep prices from a nearby dealer in > in used HP gear. PDP-8's are still in use too (my 8/e came from a company that had just started to phase them out of their production line). HP's are pretty robust machines. I'm mainly a DEC collector but recently acquired an HP-2116C. The difference between the DEC & the HPs of that era is night and day (think Chevy vs Cadillac). The HPs are *built*. > > I'd be interested in comments and advice for a > prospective 21xx owner from those on the list who own > these machines or have used them. I'm particularly > concerned about reliability, since at the price I > expect to pay, I want to keep it operating for a long > time to come. How difficult and expensive are they to > > troubleshoot and keep working (say, compared to DEC > PDP-8)? How available are contemporary replacements > and/or new old stock for the ICs? Are there any > proprietary components that are particularly prone to > failure or hard to replace that I absolutely must > obtain up-front as spares? What about the core stacks > themselves? The dealer that I talked to seemed to > think these were problematic (though I did not speak > with his technicians), while my instinct would be that > the core itself (not the driver electronics) would be > among the most reliable and stable components, barring > visible corrosion damage. The HPs use CML (Current-Mode-Logic) which is a little bit strange but there are replacement boards available (from dealers and others). > > Also, any suggestions on places to look for these > machines on the cheap would be welcomed. What I'm > most looking for is a 2115, but would likely be > interested in the somewhat later 2100 as well. There are two 2116Bs on e-bay at the moment. So they are starting to show up some. The 2116 has the advantage over say the 2115 in that you can put 16K in the base cabinet (the C can have 32K). -- TTFN - Guy From philpem at dsl.pipex.com Thu Oct 30 02:42:11 2003 From: philpem at dsl.pipex.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:42 2005 Subject: Rockwell R6765 datasheet? Message-ID: Hi, I've just bought a pair of Rockwell R6765 ICs (allegedly clones of the NEC 765 Floppy Disc Controller). Does anyone have a datasheet for these ICs? I do have a copy of the NEC 765 datasheet, but in true Murphy's Law fashion, most of it is unreadable. Thanks. -- Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB, philpem@dsl.pipex.com | ViewFinder, Ethernet (Acorn AEH62), http://www.philpem.dsl.pipex.com/ | 8xCD, framegrabber, Teletext Seen on T-shirts at NASA: WILL BUILD SPACE STATION FOR FOOD. From ghldbrd at ccp.com Thu Oct 30 07:06:09 2003 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (ghldbrd@ccp.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:42 2005 Subject: ADMIN: another RFC In-Reply-To: <002001c39e77$ff1551f0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> References: <002001c39e77$ff1551f0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <3744.65.123.179.144.1067519169.squirrel@webmail.ccp.com> Hmmm don't know what to say, but he's obviously trying to make a living from the hardware, not using it or restoring it. I think most of us are in this hobby for the love of it, not the love of $$$$$$$. My $.02 worth. Gary Hildebrand ST. JOseph, MO > This guy asked nicely to join the list.. I asked him what he collects and > below is the response I got. As I said before, I don't intend to post > these > kinds of emails to the list, but this one I'm a little torn on and not > sure > what to do. Do you guys think this person should be on the list? Let him > on > with a warning? I'm kinda leaning towards "no", but... You guys tell me! > > Jay > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bill Rowe" > To: "Jay West" > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2003 4:56 PM > Subject: RE: membership to your mailing list > > >> hi jay, >> >> i buy/sell surplus computer and test and measurement equipment so i have >> a >> warehouse full of vintage stuff such as...... >> >> _ industrial computer source model 8630-rm-8mb >> _ ibm 7015 >> _ texas micro systems 3014 >> _ digital technology dti-5750 fddi network analyzer >> _ proteon p4200-31 >> _ american automation ez-pro development system aa545/546 68k in circuit >> emulator >> _ dec microvax II >> _ force computers teraforce-2ce model summa 4 tera >> _ magnetic peripherals removable storage drive >> _ zenith vsb modulator >> _ nortel fmt-150c fiber multiplex terminal >> _ tekelec >> _ radisys >> _ first pacific networks telephone interface unit model tiu178 >> _ bellcore network services test unit >> _ tau-tron >> >> >> to name a few. thnax. >> >> bill > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Oct 30 07:07:22 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:42 2005 Subject: Another EBAY item, I wish I could get In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031030080722.007c4c50@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 09:19 PM 10/29/03 -0600, you wrote: >HP 2116B Computer System RARE!! Vintage 1969 > >or so it says: > >url = >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/ >eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2761963221&category=1247 > >oh well, so far it's only up to 99.00 > > Damm! Why is this stuff always on the wrong side of the continent? Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Oct 30 07:17:28 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:42 2005 Subject: New member introduction, questions on HP 21XX series machines,reliability and maintainability In-Reply-To: <01bf01c39e95$78e560c0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> References: <20031030012511.91732.qmail@web80502.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031030081728.007c4e90@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 09:25 PM 10/29/03 -0600, you wrote: >>How available are contemporary replacements >> and/or new old stock for the ICs? >The bus driver IC's (DTL if I remember right) are scarce... BUT... there are >so many 21MX's still in production use, most cards are plentiful, as are >thus dead cards with bus chips that can be snagged. Microcode and boot roms >(blank) are not impossible to find, but a bit scarce. >more problematic. > We're working on that. I've found a stash of old **UNPROGRAMMED** PROMs and I have a programmer that can program them but I need the correct plug-in unit for it. Once I find one I think we'll be home free. While I'm at it I might as well post my plea for the programming module aagin. I picked up a couple of Pro-Log M900, M920 and M980 programmers lately. I want to burn some BiPolar PROMs and I need a Pro-Log PM 9048 "Intel Generic" personality module. It will look something like this . I'm also looking for other Pro-Log parts and I have parts to trade so if you have anything that you're willing to part with send me a list. Here's more pictures on my Pro-Log stuff. No text or descriptions yet, just pictures. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Oct 30 07:04:02 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:42 2005 Subject: New member introduction, questions on HP 21XX series machines,reliability and maintainability In-Reply-To: <20031030012511.91732.qmail@web80502.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031030080402.007c4a10@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Hi Bill, Where are you located? I'm in Orlando Florida. I have several HP 1000s (a couple of E series, one F series and one M series). Steve Robertson in Boca Raton also has a couple and Bob Shannon in Mass has at least one of everything. Bob and one of his buddies are working on writing their own Forth-like operating system called HP/IL-OS. There's a website for HP/IL-OS somewhere but I can't find the URL at the moment. Steve is working on writing low leve\el HP-IB routines to interface to disk drives, instruments and the rest of the HP world. Me, I just scrounge up more HP 1000s. I've found a 2115(?) with core memory and I'm working on a deal to get it. Jay West, our list administrator, also collects HP minis. I can't tell you how difficult they are to maintain. I've only had mine for a couple of years but I've never had any problems. I've collected LOTs of HP computers and calculators over the years and in geneneral they're MUCH bettter built than the usual grade of electronics and computers so I don't expect andy real problems. Here's a link to a URL showing where I store my HPs, . I share this building with a couple of other guys that collect space stuff, test equipment, old cars etc so the place has lots of clutter but there are a couple of HP minis in there too. Joe At 05:25 PM 10/29/03 -0800, you wrote: >Hi, all. > >I just joined the list. I've had a long-time >interest in old computers, and rescued a "straight-8" >many years ago when I didn't think anyone else >thought of it as anything more than junk. It was at >least minimally operable when I obtained it, but I >went off to graduate school before I could find any >software for it, and it's been in storage at my >father's office in Florida for ~15 years now. I hope >to move it to my current location in the next few >months after a family visit, but in the meantime, >I'm looking to acquire another minicomputer from >the core memory era, hopefully something slightly >more compactly packaged than the (presently rackless) >rack-mount "8". > >After some research, I have settled on the HP21xx >line as a good candidate. These seem to be very nice, >well-built machines with a reasonable architecture, >a good paper-tape BASIC, and a full complement of >"blinkenlights". It seems that these machines are >actually still used, however, and I've been quoted >some pretty steep prices from a nearby dealer in >in used HP gear. > >I'd be interested in comments and advice for a >prospective 21xx owner from those on the list who own >these machines or have used them. I'm particularly >concerned about reliability, since at the price I >expect to pay, I want to keep it operating for a long >time to come. How difficult and expensive are they to > >troubleshoot and keep working (say, compared to DEC >PDP-8)? How available are contemporary replacements >and/or new old stock for the ICs? Are there any >proprietary components that are particularly prone to >failure or hard to replace that I absolutely must >obtain up-front as spares? What about the core stacks >themselves? The dealer that I talked to seemed to >think these were problematic (though I did not speak >with his technicians), while my instinct would be that >the core itself (not the driver electronics) would be >among the most reliable and stable components, barring >visible corrosion damage. > >Also, any suggestions on places to look for these >machines on the cheap would be welcomed. What I'm >most looking for is a 2115, but would likely be >interested in the somewhat later 2100 as well. > >Thanks, > >Bill > From teoz at neo.rr.com Thu Oct 30 07:47:36 2003 From: teoz at neo.rr.com (TeoZ) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:42 2005 Subject: ADMIN: another RFC References: <002001c39e77$ff1551f0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> <3744.65.123.179.144.1067519169.squirrel@webmail.ccp.com> Message-ID: <006101c39eec$60f14180$3d7ca418@neo.rr.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2003 8:06 AM Subject: Re: ADMIN: another RFC > Hmmm don't know what to say, but he's obviously trying to make a living > from the hardware, not using it or restoring it. I think most of us are > in this hobby for the love of it, not the love of $$$$$$$. My $.02 worth. > > Gary Hildebrand > ST. JOseph, MO > Dont the two go hand in hand? All established collectables have people who support them for money. How many people would have a Joe Dimageo rooky card in their collection if somebody didnt scour the world offering decent money for people to dig out the baseball card collection from the attic? If something you collect is thought of as junk to be scrapped by 99.99999% of the rest of the world odds are its getting scrapped. Anyway I think there is a difference between somebody selling old parts on the side for a few bucks compared to the guy waiting for an establishment to need a critical part and then charging major money to the person in need. One is doing it to support their hobby or for extra cash while the other is definatly a buisiness. Anyway I say let anybody join who wants to and if they dont follow the rules they get a swift boot. From dwoyciesjes at comcast.net Thu Oct 30 08:03:54 2003 From: dwoyciesjes at comcast.net (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:42 2005 Subject: ADMIN: another RFC References: <002001c39e77$ff1551f0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <3FA11A4A.1CBCA937@comcast.net> Like the others, I would also say yes to letting him in. Obviously, make sure he knows the rules of the clubhouse, but otherwise there is no reason to exclude him. It may very well happen that someone will be looking for some odd, rare part, and he might remember that he has it in his warehouse. And if he does want to sell stuff here, I like the idea of having him post only once a week (or month), and with an appropriate subject line tag like For Sale, Advertisement, or something to that effect. Of course, if he does have a PDP that he has to get rid of ASAP, I'm sure exceptions can be made for stuff like that. Comcast? Hmmm, I wonder if he works with that Computer Recycling place in North Branford CT, that I mentioned last week? Jay West wrote: > > This guy asked nicely to join the list.. I asked him what he collects and > below is the response I got. As I said before, I don't intend to post these > kinds of emails to the list, but this one I'm a little torn on and not sure > what to do. Do you guys think this person should be on the list? Let him on > with a warning? I'm kinda leaning towards "no", but... You guys tell me! > > Jay > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bill Rowe" > > > hi jay, > > > > i buy/sell surplus computer and test and measurement equipment so i have a > > warehouse full of vintage stuff such as...... -- --- Dave Woyciesjes --- ICQ# 905818 From waltje at pdp11.nl Thu Oct 30 08:46:26 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:42 2005 Subject: Another EBAY item, I wish I could get In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20031030080722.007c4c50@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 30 Oct 2003, Joe wrote: > Damm! Why is this stuff always on the wrong side of the continent? try "world" ... for us poor europeans... --f From jwest at classiccmp.org Thu Oct 30 08:55:05 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:42 2005 Subject: New member introduction, questions on HP 21XX series machines, reliability and maintainability References: <20031030012511.91732.qmail@web80502.mail.yahoo.com> <3.0.6.32.20031030081728.007c4e90@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <011f01c39ef5$cdda0760$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Joe wrote.... > We're working on that. I've found a stash of old **UNPROGRAMMED** PROMs > and I have a programmer that can program them but I need the correct > plug-in unit for it. Once I find one I think we'll be home free. Sorry, I don't have any Prolog stuff... I have a Data I/O 29B with Unipak. So, were the unprogrammed proms you found for microcode or boot roms? If microcode, for 2100 or 21MX systems (I seem to recall they are different)? Either way, care to let go of a few if you have a pile of them? Jay --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From alberto at a2sistemi.it Thu Oct 30 09:07:33 2003 From: alberto at a2sistemi.it (Alberto Rubinelli - A2 Sistemi) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:42 2005 Subject: Another EBAY item, I wish I could get In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20031030080722.007c4c50@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: > >url = > >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/ > >eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2761963221&category=1247 > > > >oh well, so far it's only up to 99.00 > > Damm! Why is this stuff always on the wrong side of the continent? > > Joe You are a lucky man :) For me is in the wrong continent :)) USA is the paradise for old computer :) Alberto ------------------------------------------------------ Alberto Rubinelli Mail : alberto@a2sistemi.it A2 SISTEMI Web : www.a2sistemi.it Via Costantino Perazzi 22 Tel 0321 640149 28100 NOVARA (NO) - ITALY Fax 0321 391769 Il mio museo di vecchi computers/My old computers museum http://www.retrocomputing.net ICQ : 49872318 ODIGO : 5269083 ------------------------------------------------------ From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Thu Oct 30 10:41:40 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:42 2005 Subject: ADMIN: another RFC In-Reply-To: <002001c39e77$ff1551f0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <3FA14D54.9847.480C78AB@localhost> > This guy asked nicely to join the list.. I asked him what he collects and > below is the response I got. As I said before, I don't intend to post these > kinds of emails to the list, but this one I'm a little torn on and not sure > what to do. Do you guys think this person should be on the list? Let him on > with a warning? I'm kinda leaning towards "no", but... You guys tell me! This list has been so successful over the years because it's open to every person and opinion on this planet (with a mild suggestion to stay on topic). Unlike a.f.c where moderation and watchdogs stop it from using the potential. The question itself about 'this person' is already a degradeing and not wothy issue. I'd say let everyone in, of course by making it clear that this isn't exactly ebay. Just because he's professional about old computers doesn't make him 'unworthy'. We have more than one member who earns money by selling/maintaining/programming/consulting around old hardware. And what's even more importand (if we already go into the ugly arena of judgeing people without knowing) he is honest about his professional background. I'd be more than happy to wellcome him in our round. And NO, he does not need a _warning_ he hasn't done anything, all that's needed is a clear definition of the (main) purpose of the list to EVERYONE joining, no matter what they tell. Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 5.0 am 01./02. Mai 2004 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Thu Oct 30 10:56:34 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:42 2005 Subject: ADMIN: another RFC In-Reply-To: <3744.65.123.179.144.1067519169.squirrel@webmail.ccp.com> References: <002001c39e77$ff1551f0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <3FA150D2.16492.481A1F5B@localhost> > Hmmm don't know what to say, but he's obviously trying to make a living > from the hardware, not using it or restoring it. I think most of us are > in this hobby for the love of it, not the love of $$$$$$$. My $.02 worth. Gary, I have to disagree, there's nothing better than people wo do support existing computers to run (for examle by selling replacements) or put surplus hardware to a new use. And someone making a living thereof is to me a fine businessman (unless I learn otherwise). Just hording computers and storeing them away as a lot (including me) do, is only the second best solution. And having the chance to _show_ to a professional dealer that there's another way to trun around his stock than scraping it for the metal value is our chance. This is something I try to bring to as many surplus people as possible, if they can sell a pice of hardware for 5 bucks as scrap metal (if it does not sell for more in the first place) then it's equaly fine to go and get the same 5 Bucks from a collector. If a surplus dealer (as the Bill seams to be) is interested to talk (and deal) with the Collectors/Classic-Enthusiasts we should be happy ot include and educate him. Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 5.0 am 01./02. Mai 2004 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Thu Oct 30 11:05:41 2003 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:42 2005 Subject: ADMIN: another RFC In-Reply-To: <3FA14D54.9847.480C78AB@localhost> References: <3FA14D54.9847.480C78AB@localhost> Message-ID: <200310300905410865.02FEE522@192.168.42.129> Extremely well spoken, Hans. I'm one of the members who used to collect, but now that my interests have changed I simply make it a point to put up any 'classic' stuff I may get for auction or direct sale. I do my best not to gouge, and I know I've not polluted the list with daily ads for stuff. Speaking as both a former collector and as someone who's in the electronics business, I say let them on. No reservations. *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 30-Oct-03 at 17:41 Hans Franke wrote: >> This guy asked nicely to join the list.. I asked him what he collects >and >> below is the response I got. As I said before, I don't intend to post >these >> kinds of emails to the list, but this one I'm a little torn on and not >sure >> what to do. Do you guys think this person should be on the list? Let him >on >> with a warning? I'm kinda leaning towards "no", but... You guys tell me! > >This list has been so successful over the years because it's >open to every person and opinion on this planet (with a mild >suggestion to stay on topic). Unlike a.f.c where moderation >and watchdogs stop it from using the potential. > >The question itself about 'this person' is already a degradeing >and not wothy issue. I'd say let everyone in, of course by making >it clear that this isn't exactly ebay. > >Just because he's professional about old computers doesn't make >him 'unworthy'. We have more than one member who earns money by >selling/maintaining/programming/consulting around old hardware. > >And what's even more importand (if we already go into the ugly >arena of judgeing people without knowing) he is honest about his >professional background. > >I'd be more than happy to wellcome him in our round. And NO, he >does not need a _warning_ he hasn't done anything, all that's >needed is a clear definition of the (main) purpose of the list >to EVERYONE joining, no matter what they tell. > >Gruss >H. > > >-- >VCF Europa 5.0 am 01./02. Mai 2004 in Muenchen >http://www.vcfe.org/ -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com ARS KC7GR (Formerly WD6EOS) since 12-77 -- kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com "Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati" (Red Green, aka Steve Smith) From aw288 at osfn.org Thu Oct 30 11:44:09 2003 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:42 2005 Subject: ADMIN: another RFC In-Reply-To: <3744.65.123.179.144.1067519169.squirrel@webmail.ccp.com> Message-ID: > Hmmm don't know what to say, but he's obviously trying to make a living > from the hardware, not using it or restoring it. I think most of us are > in this hobby for the love of it, not the love of $$$$$$$. My $.02 worth. Can you be sure? In the old radio collecting field, *ALMOST ALL* dealers are also collectors. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From dwight.elvey at amd.com Thu Oct 30 11:44:49 2003 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:42 2005 Subject: Another EBAY item, I wish I could get Message-ID: <200310301744.JAA29473@clulw009.amd.com> Hi There is another 2116B on ebay but the fellow must think it is a little rarer. He is starting at $1200. Dwight >From: Joe > >At 09:19 PM 10/29/03 -0600, you wrote: >>HP 2116B Computer System RARE!! Vintage 1969 >> >>or so it says: >> >>url = >>http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/ >>eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2761963221&category=1247 >> >>oh well, so far it's only up to 99.00 >> >> > > Damm! Why is this stuff always on the wrong side of the continent? > > Joe > > From patrick at evocative.com Thu Oct 30 11:58:01 2003 From: patrick at evocative.com (Patrick Rigney) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:42 2005 Subject: ADMIN: another RFC In-Reply-To: <3FA14D54.9847.480C78AB@localhost> Message-ID: > Just because he's professional about old computers doesn't make > him 'unworthy'. We have more than one member who earns money by > selling/maintaining/programming/consulting around old hardware. Hans, well done/said. Actually, I have to add, it's a little alarming to me that this conversation is even happening. While the list is Jay's to administer, at what point did the current membership become judge and jury in deciding who shall be a member and who shall not? And why are we on the cusp of convicting someone of an ill they have not yet even committed, and may never commit? I'm not an anarchist, by any means. It's great being a part of a hobby/interest/lifestyle that is legal and harmless, open to anyone, and where people possess huge amounts of knowledge and great enthusiasm to share it. Deciding in advance that someone isn't worthy or appropriate to be on this list, before they've sent one byte to it, is inconsistent with the spirit of community it's intended to foster. And that's my $0.02. Patrick From zmerch at 30below.com Thu Oct 30 11:59:15 2003 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:42 2005 Subject: Another EBAY item, I wish I could get In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.32.20031030080722.007c4c50@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20031030125336.00b1e7c8@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Fred N. van Kempen may have mentioned these words: >On Thu, 30 Oct 2003, Joe wrote: > > > Damm! Why is this stuff always on the wrong side of the continent? >try "world" ... for us poor europeans... Speak for yourself! Atari & Amiga hardware is a lot easier to find in Europe than it is in rural America (I just happen to be a Rural American... ;-) -- between one friend and myself, we probably own around 50% of the classic machines in the county - population 34.000. If you wanted to get a Medusa, where do you go? Europe. How about a Hades? Europe. I submitted *several* emails to the Atari ST 3rd party companies trying to get information on becoming a US dealer; no matter the cost. No response whatsoever. :-( And in the more populous areas where pickin's are easier... we still have more crime, slow autobahns, and *really* *bad* *beer*. Wanna trade??? I would... ;-) Laterz, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers zmerch@30below.com What do you do when Life gives you lemons, and you don't *like* lemonade????????????? From jwest at classiccmp.org Thu Oct 30 12:28:52 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:42 2005 Subject: ADMIN: another RFC - closed References: Message-ID: <003601c39f13$ab6abd00$033310ac@kwcorp.com> I saw enough the first group of posts on this to know the membership at large doesn't have a problem with this. He is on the list effective now, so lets call an end to the debate and welcome him. As I said, I didn't bring this to the list cause I wanted to debate everyone who wants to sign on. But since he was a seller, I didn't want to piss anyone off. Sounds like my concerns were not justified (from the group). In addition, I've exchanged a few emails with him and I will vouch for him - doesn't seem like a problem - actually, seems like he'd be a GREAT asset to the list. Regards, Jay West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Thu Oct 30 12:36:10 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:42 2005 Subject: Another EBAY item, I wish I could get In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20031030125336.00b1e7c8@mail.30below.com> References: Message-ID: <3FA1682A.18293.48754F3A@localhost> > > > Damm! Why is this stuff always on the wrong side of the continent? > >try "world" ... for us poor europeans... > Speak for yourself! Atari & Amiga hardware is a lot easier to find in > Europe than it is in rural America (I just happen to be a Rural American... > ;-) -- between one friend and myself, we probably own around 50% of the > classic machines in the county - population 34.000. Wow. If I look around here in the greater Munich area, i'd be happy to have some 1-2% of the total classic comp population ... we have :) > If you wanted to get a Medusa, where do you go? Europe. How about a Hades? > Europe. I submitted *several* emails to the Atari ST 3rd party companies > trying to get information on becoming a US dealer; no matter the cost. No > response whatsoever. :-( THey are often not ready for that. Most of them are rather small Companies, or in most cases single person, not realy ready for business, and rather driven by the idea. I'm trying since years to get manufacturers of modern classic systems (like Hades, or Milan or QL40 or,or,or) to paricipate at the VCFe, which would be a direkt hit to their target market (oly a collector is weired enough to pay the price of a new PC for a classic compatible machine, people still using for example a Falcon don't need anything faster), but I get close to no response. > And in the more populous areas where pickin's are easier... we still have > more crime, slow autobahns, and *really* *bad* *beer*. No, that's not true, you may have some slow highways, but slow Autobahns are limited to Germany - where basicly _every_ Autobahn is so crowded that a parking lot gives you a better driving experience. If you'll do an average over all Autobahns and US Interstates, the Interstate system will come out first. At least when counting cars per kilometer. Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 5.0 am 01./02. Mai 2004 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From ggs at shiresoft.com Thu Oct 30 12:45:42 2003 From: ggs at shiresoft.com (Guy Sotomayor) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:42 2005 Subject: Another EBAY item, I wish I could get In-Reply-To: <200310301744.JAA29473@clulw009.amd.com> References: <200310301744.JAA29473@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <1067539541.2223.0.camel@nazgul.pao.digeo.com> On Thu, 2003-10-30 at 09:44, Dwight K. Elvey wrote: > Hi > There is another 2116B on ebay but the fellow > must think it is a little rarer. He is starting > at $1200. We don't (yet) know what the other guy wants for his, since he has a reserve on it that hasn't yet been met. > Dwight > > >From: Joe > > > >At 09:19 PM 10/29/03 -0600, you wrote: > >>HP 2116B Computer System RARE!! Vintage 1969 > >> > >>or so it says: > >> > >>url = > >>http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/ > >>eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2761963221&category=1247 > >> > >>oh well, so far it's only up to 99.00 > >> > >> > > > > Damm! Why is this stuff always on the wrong side of the continent? > > > > Joe > > > > -- TTFN - Guy From thompson at new.rr.com Thu Oct 30 13:26:20 2003 From: thompson at new.rr.com (Paul Thompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:42 2005 Subject: Semi OT: 20ma loop troubleshooting Message-ID: I am trying to set up a Black Box '20ma loop to serial' converter box on an existing, known working 20ma loop which currently drives a couple of 20ma terminals. There is a note in the black box manual that the device won't work on analog current loop. Am I correct in assuming that an analog current loop is one where an analog instrument is sending its 'telemetry' over the loop? A 20ma loop terminal obviously would not fit into that category I am assuming. The folks I am working with seem to have tried the obvious. They only want the black box device to receive data so they have hooked on the appropriate wires so far no output. Any obivous gotcha's with this technology? Paul -- From waltje at pdp11.nl Thu Oct 30 13:52:19 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:42 2005 Subject: Another EBAY item, I wish I could get In-Reply-To: <3FA1682A.18293.48754F3A@localhost> Message-ID: On Thu, 30 Oct 2003, Hans Franke wrote: > > more crime, slow autobahns, and *really* *bad* *beer*. > > No, that's not true, you may have some slow highways, but slow > Autobahns are limited to Germany - where basicly _every_ Autobahn > is so crowded that a parking lot gives you a better driving > experience. If you'll do an average over all Autobahns and > US Interstates, the Interstate system will come out first. > At least when counting cars per kilometer. Hmm, when I drive from here to Frankfurt, I can do a nice 210km/h though, Hans.. must be a southern-DE slowness thing :) Fred -- Fred N. van Kempen, DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) Collector/Archivist Visit the VAXlab Project at http://www.pdp11.nl/VAXlab/ Visit the Archives at http://www.pdp11.nl/ Email: waltje@pdp11.nl BUSSUM, THE NETHERLANDS / Sunnyvale, CA, USA From r_a_feldman at hotmail.com Wed Oct 29 09:00:26 2003 From: r_a_feldman at hotmail.com (Robert Feldman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:42 2005 Subject: AT&T 6300s Message-ID: (My apologies if this is a double post, but I'n not sure it sent on the first try.) The 6300's had a number of oddities. As mentioned by others, the video was non-standard and power to the monitor came through the video cable, not through a separate line cord. This was true of _most_ units, as where I worked we had some 6300's with separate EGA cards and regular EGA monitors. You could also remove the standard card (while also disconnecting the monitor power line and setting some jumpers) and use your own card. Many programs (e.g., Lotus 123, Borland Reflex) had special video drivers for the 6300. The keyboard used a 15 pin D connector. IIRC, Keytronic made a replacement keyboard for the 6300. The clock/calendar stopped working correctly at the start of 1988 (IIRC). You could get a CLOCK.SYS device driver to set the proper year. Most of the hard disk drives I saw were standard half height 5 1/4" Segate models (225's ?). The floppy disk controller was integrated into the mother board. It could be disabled, but that took some doing. On a number of our machines, I added a 2nd floppy -- a 3 1/2" -- in addition to the 5 1/4". This was a bit of a trick, as the case only has bays for two drives (1 floppy, one HD). What I did was mount the HD internall. You could only do this if all the cards were half length, as the drive sat over some of the unused card slots and against the ends of the half length cards. I used aluminum cut from a cookie baking sheet to make a support bracket. Putting the HD internal freed up the second drive bay for the 3 1/2" drive. I also used a drive controller from JDR Micro Devices that had its own BIOS that coexisted with the built-in controller and added the extra drive after the internal ones, making the 5 1/4 drive both A: and B:, the 3 1/2 C: and the hard drive D:. The expansion slots were on a board that was mounted back-to-back with the mother board. Taking off the top of the case exposed the power supply and card slots. There was a separate cover plate _under_ the case that covered the mother board. Bob _________________________________________________________________ Want to check if your PC is virus-infected? Get a FREE computer virus scan online from McAfee. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 From cukr at massnet1.net Thu Oct 30 14:35:54 2003 From: cukr at massnet1.net (Mike Cukr) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:42 2005 Subject: Semi OT: 20ma loop troubleshooting References: Message-ID: <004601c39f25$6b6519a0$ec65ead8@d2e2y0> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Thompson" To: Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2003 2:26 PM Subject: Semi OT: 20ma loop troubleshooting > > I am trying to set up a Black Box '20ma loop to serial' converter box on > an existing, known working 20ma loop which currently drives a couple of > 20ma terminals. > > There is a note in the black box manual that the device won't work on > analog current loop. Am I correct in assuming that an analog current loop > is one where an analog instrument is sending its 'telemetry' over the > loop? A 20ma loop terminal obviously would not fit into that category I > am assuming. That is correct > > The folks I am working with seem to have tried the obvious. They only > want the black box device to receive data so they have hooked on the > appropriate wires so far no output. Any obivous gotcha's with this > technology? There are always gotcha's... I'm unclear about what you mean by 'recieve only' Are the terminals only to display data sent to them? or are they data entry only (keyboard)? Three things come to mind that could be problems: 1. Assumng the 'black box' does no data buffering, the baud rate has to be the same on both sides of the 'black box', ie if the terminals are 300 baud then the serial (RS-232) has to be 300 baud too. Confirm that serial data is reaching the 'black box' from the host (if that's what you mean by recieve). 2. Which device is expecte to provide the loop current? Most terminals don't provide loop current and expect the host to provide it. Take a meter reading across the loop lines, you should see some like 20-60 vdc, if not the terminals are configured to have the host provide the loop current. Check the docs for the terminals to see what's expected. The 'black box' may or may not be able to provide the loop current. 3. Assuming that data is being sent to the terminals for display, you may have to 'address' the terminal, that is unless the data is proceeded by a a unique set of characters, the terminal may just ignore the data, again, check the terminal docs and configuration settings. Good Luck Mike > > Paul > > > > -- > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Oct 30 15:53:16 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:42 2005 Subject: AVL Road Runner computer???? Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031030165316.008edd70@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I stopped at a scrap place today and spotted an AVL Road Runner computer there. It looks similar to a Commie 64 but is slightely smaller and marked Road Runner on the top hump. There was also an external monitor with about a 5" screen marked AVL with it. Also has two external floppy disk drives, both marked AVL. Each drive is full height 5 1/4". Also has an AVL marked "expander" box that's made of metal and about 14" x 12" x 2". The expander box had sockets for the floppy drives, two video sockets and a couple of others that I don't remember. IIRC one video socket with a RCA type and the other was a PL-259. There was also a separate AVL keyboard there. It had a metal back and ends and was similar to the ones used for Kaypros and other early portable computers. It seaparate from the rest of the sysstem so it MAY NOT be part of it but what's the chances of finding parts for two different AVL ssystems in the same location? Everything painted a dark grey color. Does anyone here know what this is? Joe From bshannon at tiac.net Thu Oct 30 16:08:51 2003 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:42 2005 Subject: New member introduction, questions on HP 21XX series machines, reliability and maintainability References: <20031030012511.91732.qmail@web80502.mail.yahoo.com> <1067499461.2179.10.camel@nazgul.shiresoft.com> Message-ID: <3FA18BF3.4030306@tiac.net> Guy Sotomayor wrote: >> > >The HPs use CML (Current-Mode-Logic) which is a little bit strange but >there are replacement boards available (from dealers and others). > Err, thats not exactly correct. Early HP's use CTL logic, like the 956, etc. Its similar to TTL but with an uncommited emitter output stage. Logic supplies are +4.5 and -2. > >There are two 2116Bs on e-bay at the moment. So they are starting to >show up some. The 2116 has the advantage over say the 2115 in that you >can put 16K in the base cabinet (the C can have 32K). > The 2116 has lost of slots and watts, but, it sucks power at an awesome rate. If you want to run the machine often and hard, get a HP 21MX processor like the 2113. This gives much more performance, up to 2 mb of RAM, and at less than a third of the power draw of a 2116. And I'm a 2116 fan, I have two of them! 2115's are unobtanium, many HP dealers have yet to see one. I've been collecting HP's for a long time and I've only seen one. It was quite unpopular because it missed the cost / performance curve of the larger and smaller machines of the same class. Its also limited to 8K words of core. > From zmerch at 30below.com Thu Oct 30 16:15:10 2003 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:42 2005 Subject: OT: Autobahns & Re: Another EBAY item, I wish I could get In-Reply-To: <3FA1682A.18293.48754F3A@localhost> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20031030125336.00b1e7c8@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20031030165157.02baaf30@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Hans Franke may have mentioned these words: [snip] >Wow. If I look around here in the greater Munich area, i'd be happy >to have some 1-2% of the total classic comp population ... we have :) So would I... ;-) > > [snip re: Medusa/Hades/Milan/etc] > >THey are often not ready for that. Most of them are rather small >Companies, or in most cases single person, not realy ready for >business, and rather driven by the idea. Then maybe their websites shouldn't say "Email me here if you want to be a dealer! We'll get right back with you!" Or even just email me back saying "Holy Scheisse! We're not ready to have a US Dealer!" Or even... "There's no dealer discount or anything, and I only make 2 per week..." or whatever... The lack of response is what I was upset about. If their website said: "Email us and we'll never answer you back because this is just a *#!%^~(@ hobby for us, but we wanted to put out a webpage" --> that would have been just fine, then. ;-) > > And in the more populous areas where pickin's are easier... we still have > > more crime, slow autobahns, and *really* *bad* *beer*. > >No, that's not true, you may have some slow highways, but slow >Autobahns are limited to Germany - where basicly _every_ Autobahn >is so crowded that a parking lot gives you a better driving >experience. If you'll do an average over all Autobahns and >US Interstates, the Interstate system will come out first. >At least when counting cars per kilometer. Then things sure have changed from when I was there... I drove from Oerbke (I think that's the spelling... it's been a while since '91... 12-year brainfog) - 50km north of Hannover, anyway - I was driving an American Military vehicle (CUCV -> Chevy Blazer for those who've seen one) 130kph up to Bremerhaven (with oversized balloon tires only designed to withstand 72kph - it was *bouncy*!!) and rarely did those little, dinky, currently-domestic Porches & Mercedes drop below 170kph, even in the construction zones! Some of them zipped past me near cm away - that was a rather hectic ride! The bus trip I took to Berlin was similarly unencumbered by traffic, until we got into the city proper (which still isn't as bad on the stretch of Interstate 75 between Bay City & Detroit, MI, at least IMHO... imagine 30km of 25kph travel out of 100km, if you catch it the wrong time...) And you had *no* witty comeback about the beer... ;-) ;-) To bring this back ontopic... I'm *still* trying to work out getting over to VCF Europa... we'll see... Laterz, Roger "Merch" Merchberger P.S. I don't have a Deutschland map handy... how far away is Munich from Garmish? -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger | "Profile, don't speculate." sysadmin, Iceberg Computers | Daniel J. Bernstein zmerch@30below.com | From jwstephens at msm.umr.edu Thu Oct 30 16:22:17 2003 From: jwstephens at msm.umr.edu (jim) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:42 2005 Subject: Kaypro 2X starts up with silly display References: Message-ID: <3FA18F19.94067DAE@msm.umr.edu> Tobias Otto-Adamczak wrote: right place to ask, hopefully someone has a schematic. I'd say that you have something bad in the data path fromt he cpu to the video chip (obviously). Since it is painting the the screen in a stable fashion, I'd think the video portion of the chip, and memory is working, but the data and commands into that chip and circuitry is scrabmbled. Does the display stay stable, or do the characters change w/o any keyboard input? If they do, then you may have other damage too. Did you drop it, or know of any event related to the start of the symptoms? Might help others here help you if so. Jim From mikeford at socal.rr.com Thu Oct 30 16:36:51 2003 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:42 2005 Subject: Morotola 6808 processors qty 500 wtb In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20031030081728.007c4e90@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> References: <01bf01c39e95$78e560c0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> <20031030012511.91732.qmail@web80502.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20031030143223.00a422f0@pop-server.socal.rr.com> One of my friends is looking for a batch of 500 Morotola 6808 processors. Anybody have any leads? From Innfogra at aol.com Thu Oct 30 16:41:04 2003 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:42 2005 Subject: AVL Road Runner computer???? Message-ID: <128.3403e284.2cd2ed80@aol.com> AVL Roadrunners are controllers for multiple slide projector shows. I have only seen standalone ones like the commodore type you mentioned. Since this one had video it is probably for adding or switching video in a multimedia show. That thing is probably Z80 or 8 bit controlled, maybe STD bus. All of the pieces go together. This must have been a high end system, probably worth saving. IIRC AVL stands for Audio Video Laboratories. From bshannon at tiac.net Thu Oct 30 17:00:05 2003 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:42 2005 Subject: New member introduction, questions on HP 21XX series machines, reliability and maintainability References: <20031030012511.91732.qmail@web80502.mail.yahoo.com> <3.0.6.32.20031030081728.007c4e90@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <011f01c39ef5$cdda0760$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: <3FA197F5.4090100@tiac.net> Microcode ROM's for the 2100 are 21MX boot roms. 21MX boot roms come in two flavors, the more common being the 24-pin, 1024 by 8 bit bipolar devices. Unprogrammed boot roms for the 21MX's are commercially available, but the programming yield is not great and they are expensive. Jay West wrote: >Joe wrote.... > >> We're working on that. I've found a stash of old **UNPROGRAMMED** PROMs >>and I have a programmer that can program them but I need the correct >>plug-in unit for it. Once I find one I think we'll be home free. >> > >Sorry, I don't have any Prolog stuff... I have a Data I/O 29B with Unipak. > >So, were the unprogrammed proms you found for microcode or boot roms? If >microcode, for 2100 or 21MX systems (I seem to recall they are different)? > >Either way, care to let go of a few if you have a pile of them? > >Jay > >--- >[This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Oct 30 16:49:43 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:42 2005 Subject: Rockwell R6765 datasheet? In-Reply-To: from "Philip Pemberton" at Oct 30, 3 08:42:11 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 506 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20031030/4f8a55bb/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Oct 30 16:29:32 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:42 2005 Subject: AT&T 6300s Re: cctalk Digest, Vol 2, Issue 40 In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20031028150201.007fe100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> from "Joe" at Oct 28, 3 03:02:01 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 508 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20031030/fd232d09/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Oct 30 17:01:05 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:42 2005 Subject: Semi OT: 20ma loop troubleshooting In-Reply-To: from "Paul Thompson" at Oct 30, 3 01:26:20 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1599 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20031030/00d7e187/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Oct 30 16:41:32 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:42 2005 Subject: New member introduction, questions on HP 21XX series machines, In-Reply-To: <20031030012511.91732.qmail@web80502.mail.yahoo.com> from "William Maddox" at Oct 29, 3 05:25:11 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2558 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20031030/7c393d5e/attachment.ksh From curt at atarimuseum.com Thu Oct 30 19:12:42 2003 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:42 2005 Subject: AVL Road Runner computer???? References: <3.0.6.32.20031030165316.008edd70@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <001401c39f4c$16280c00$1e02a8c0@WNYC1145744> Any photos? Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe" To: Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2003 4:53 PM Subject: AVL Road Runner computer???? > I stopped at a scrap place today and spotted an AVL Road Runner computer > there. It looks similar to a Commie 64 but is slightely smaller and marked > Road Runner on the top hump. There was also an external monitor with about > a 5" screen marked AVL with it. Also has two external floppy disk drives, > both marked AVL. Each drive is full height 5 1/4". Also has an AVL marked > "expander" box that's made of metal and about 14" x 12" x 2". The expander > box had sockets for the floppy drives, two video sockets and a couple of > others that I don't remember. IIRC one video socket with a RCA type and the > other was a PL-259. There was also a separate AVL keyboard there. It had a > metal back and ends and was similar to the ones used for Kaypros and other > early portable computers. It seaparate from the rest of the sysstem so it > MAY NOT be part of it but what's the chances of finding parts for two > different AVL ssystems in the same location? Everything painted a dark grey > color. Does anyone here know what this is? > > Joe > From jwest at classiccmp.org Thu Oct 30 19:16:01 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:42 2005 Subject: New member introduction, questions on HP 21XX series machines, References: Message-ID: <001501c39f4c$8c2a0200$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Tony wrote... (re: 2100A) >Maybe I will find time to investigate it > sometime (does anyone have schematics???) Yes > But driver transistors can and do fail. Sometimes there were specially > selected, so you might have to try a few transistors until the machine > works again, and/or tweak the current levels, etc. Not impossible to do. The transistors on the core board which fail are very common. I haven't had to replace any on the XYD or ID boards so I am not sure there. Jay From ggs at shiresoft.com Thu Oct 30 19:23:54 2003 From: ggs at shiresoft.com (Guy Sotomayor) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:43 2005 Subject: New member introduction, questions on HP 21XX series machines, reliability and maintainability In-Reply-To: <3FA18BF3.4030306@tiac.net> References: <20031030012511.91732.qmail@web80502.mail.yahoo.com> <1067499461.2179.10.camel@nazgul.shiresoft.com> <3FA18BF3.4030306@tiac.net> Message-ID: <1067563434.2220.4.camel@nazgul.pao.digeo.com> On Thu, 2003-10-30 at 14:08, Bob Shannon wrote: > Guy Sotomayor wrote: > > > > >> > > > >The HPs use CML (Current-Mode-Logic) which is a little bit strange but > >there are replacement boards available (from dealers and others). > > > > Err, thats not exactly correct. Early HP's use CTL logic, like the 956, > etc. Its similar to TTL > but with an uncommited emitter output stage. Logic supplies are +4.5 > and -2. Sorry. IBM used CML which is similar to CTL. -- TTFN - Guy From gkicomputers at yahoo.com Thu Oct 30 19:38:36 2003 From: gkicomputers at yahoo.com (steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:43 2005 Subject: Morotola 6808 processors qty 500 wtb In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20031030143223.00a422f0@pop-server.socal.rr.com> Message-ID: <20031031013836.57301.qmail@web12406.mail.yahoo.com> jameco.com --- Mike Ford wrote: > One of my friends is looking for a batch of 500 > Morotola 6808 processors. > Anybody have any leads? > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spears http://launch.yahoo.com/promos/britneyspears/ From dwight.elvey at amd.com Thu Oct 30 19:43:58 2003 From: dwight.elvey at amd.com (Dwight K. Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:43 2005 Subject: Rockwell R6765 datasheet? Message-ID: <200310310143.RAA29860@clulw009.amd.com> check out: http://www.htl-steyr.ac.at/~morg/pcinfo/hardware/ interrupts/hard0001.htm#NEC ?PD765 Dwight >From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk > >> >> Hi, >> I've just bought a pair of Rockwell R6765 ICs (allegedly clones of the NEC >> 765 Floppy Disc Controller). Does anyone have a datasheet for these ICs? > >Yes, I have a datasheet, and yes they're pretty close to the 765 (I can't >see any obvious differences...). Is there anything specific you need to know > >> I do have a copy of the NEC 765 datasheet, but in true Murphy's Law >> fashion, most of it is unreadable. > >You mean this is _not_ on the web somewhere? It's a very common IC.... > >-tony > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Oct 30 19:41:28 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:43 2005 Subject: FA: HP 9816 Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031030204128.0084ec10@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Spotted on E-bay . It's hard to find these with the original small keyboard. Most users bought the larger "Nimitz" keyboards. Joe From thompson at new.rr.com Thu Oct 30 19:58:41 2003 From: thompson at new.rr.com (Paul Thompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:43 2005 Subject: Semi OT: 20ma loop troubleshooting In-Reply-To: <004601c39f25$6b6519a0$ec65ead8@d2e2y0> Message-ID: On Thu, 30 Oct 2003, Mike Cukr wrote: > > The folks I am working with seem to have tried the obvious. They only > > want the black box device to receive data so they have hooked on the > > appropriate wires so far no output. Any obivous gotcha's with this > > technology? > > There are always gotcha's... I'm unclear about what you mean by 'recieve > only' > Are the terminals only to display data sent to them? or are they data > entry only (keyboard)? Three things come to mind that could be problems: One current loop terminal is hooked up so that it can transmit and receive, the other can receive only. They must both be the same ID because they both see the same data: the receive only terminal can see what the send/receive types and what the fire system sends. I will look in more detail to see how this was wired. Below is a little more information which might clarify what I am trying to do. > 1. Assumng the 'black box' does no data buffering, the baud rate has to > be the same on both sides of the 'black box', ie if the terminals are 300 > baud > then the serial (RS-232) has to be 300 baud too. Confirm that serial > data is reaching the 'black box' from the host (if that's what you mean > by recieve). Will do. That has been the tough part so far since there are xmit and recv lights on the black box which don't light. > 2. Which device is expecte to provide the loop current? Most terminals > don't provide loop current and expect the host to provide it. Take a meter > reading across the loop lines, you should see some like 20-60 vdc, if not > the terminals are configured to have the host provide the loop current. I am sure the main fire alarm system provides the current. I will check the voltage. > 3. Assuming that data is being sent to the terminals for display, you may > have to 'address' the terminal, that is unless the data is proceeded by a > a unique set of characters, the terminal may just ignore the data, again, > check the terminal docs and configuration settings. The terminals themselves are current loop native devices and are working fine. Right now the receive only terminal has a linux box hanging off its serial port which analyses the messages and pages people. My hope is to get rid of the read-only terminal with just the linux box and black box hooked directly on the 20ma loop. The read-write terminal will remain. Thanks for your thoughts. Paul -- From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Oct 30 20:01:31 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:43 2005 Subject: AVL Road Runner computer???? In-Reply-To: <001401c39f4c$16280c00$1e02a8c0@WNYC1145744> References: <3.0.6.32.20031030165316.008edd70@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031030210131.00806320@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> No, I didn't buy it. Just wondering if I should. Joe At 08:12 PM 10/30/03 -0500, you wrote: >Any photos? > > >Curt > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Joe" >To: >Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2003 4:53 PM >Subject: AVL Road Runner computer???? > > >> I stopped at a scrap place today and spotted an AVL Road Runner computer >> there. It looks similar to a Commie 64 but is slightely smaller and marked >> Road Runner on the top hump. There was also an external monitor with about >> a 5" screen marked AVL with it. Also has two external floppy disk drives, >> both marked AVL. Each drive is full height 5 1/4". Also has an AVL marked >> "expander" box that's made of metal and about 14" x 12" x 2". The expander >> box had sockets for the floppy drives, two video sockets and a couple of >> others that I don't remember. IIRC one video socket with a RCA type and >the >> other was a PL-259. There was also a separate AVL keyboard there. It had a >> metal back and ends and was similar to the ones used for Kaypros and other >> early portable computers. It seaparate from the rest of the sysstem so it >> MAY NOT be part of it but what's the chances of finding parts for two >> different AVL ssystems in the same location? Everything painted a dark >grey >> color. Does anyone here know what this is? >> >> Joe >> > > From rhudson at cnonline.net Thu Oct 30 20:09:16 2003 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:43 2005 Subject: Um, was there a... Message-ID: <3B1AA278-0B47-11D8-8384-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> Is it just me or was there a small cp/m machine named the Ortrana Attache? From jwest at classiccmp.org Thu Oct 30 20:47:52 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:43 2005 Subject: HP terminal wanted Message-ID: <003a01c39f59$616c0240$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Well, looks like I lost the ebay auction for a 2648 terminal, because I only bid a tiny amount and forgot about the auction until 10 minutes after it was over. Serves me right for the sniping tactic. So.. anyone have a decent condition 2647 or 2648 terminal they will trade or sell? Thanks! Jay From jcwren at jcwren.com Thu Oct 30 20:57:31 2003 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (J.C. Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:43 2005 Subject: Um, was there a... In-Reply-To: <3B1AA278-0B47-11D8-8384-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> References: <3B1AA278-0B47-11D8-8384-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> Message-ID: <200310302157.31583.jcwren@jcwren.com> It's called an 'Otrona Attache". You can also Google for it and get a number of hits. Nice little machines, I've got 4. --John On Thursday 30 October 2003 21:09 pm, Ron Hudson wrote: > Is it just me or was there a small cp/m machine > named the Ortrana Attache? From rhudson at cnonline.net Thu Oct 30 21:20:48 2003 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:43 2005 Subject: Um, was there a... In-Reply-To: <200310302157.31583.jcwren@jcwren.com> Message-ID: <3905A926-0B51-11D8-8384-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> On Thursday, October 30, 2003, at 08:57 PM, J.C. Wren wrote: > It's called an 'Otrona Attache". > otrona/> You can also Google for it and get a number of hits. Nice > little > machines, I've got 4. cool (what would you trade for one?) > > --John > > On Thursday 30 October 2003 21:09 pm, Ron Hudson wrote: >> Is it just me or was there a small cp/m machine >> named the Ortrana Attache? > > From vcf at siconic.com Thu Oct 30 21:41:27 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:43 2005 Subject: Um, was there a... In-Reply-To: <3B1AA278-0B47-11D8-8384-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 30 Oct 2003, Ron Hudson wrote: > Is it just me or was there a small cp/m machine named the Ortrana > Attache? It is just you, and also there is a small CP/M machine named the Otrona Attache. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Thu Oct 30 21:43:57 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:43 2005 Subject: Wyse WY-60 terminals available Message-ID: I have about 8 Wyse Wy-60 terminals with keyboards available. Most have burn in, though not that bad. They are still visually adequate. One has no burn-in. If anyone's interested, you can have as many as you want for shipping. For the one without burn-in, I'd like 1.2 * shipping. These make great all-around terminals. They're relatively small and compact, modernish with nice on-screen setup features. Contact me privately... -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Oct 30 21:43:37 2003 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:43 2005 Subject: Um, was there a... In-Reply-To: <3B1AA278-0B47-11D8-8384-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> References: <3B1AA278-0B47-11D8-8384-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> Message-ID: <20031030193602.H92888@newshell.lmi.net> On Thu, 30 Oct 2003, Ron Hudson wrote: > Is it just me or was there a small cp/m machine > named the Ortrana Attache? ? are you ALSO a small CP/M machine?? It was Otrona Attache. It was exceptionally portable. They did an ad showing a Charlie Chaplin trying to carry a PC down stairs on a table; one of the first cases where IBM's lawyers enforced their ownership of Charlie Chaplin as a trademark for computers (purchased from his estate - his personal politics would not have gone for an association with IBM) It had 40 track per side drives that were upgradable to 80 track per side. There was an 8088 coprocessor add-in card for MS-DOS! -- Fred Cisin cisin@xenosoft.com XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com From rhudson at cnonline.net Thu Oct 30 22:02:41 2003 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:43 2005 Subject: Um, was there a... In-Reply-To: <20031030193602.H92888@newshell.lmi.net> Message-ID: <132422F4-0B57-11D8-8384-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> On Thursday, October 30, 2003, at 09:43 PM, Fred Cisin wrote: > On Thu, 30 Oct 2003, Ron Hudson wrote: >> Is it just me or was there a small cp/m machine >> named the Ortrana Attache? > > ? are you ALSO a small CP/M machine?? Why yes I am. But I don't have an 8088 add in card. Any body remember the ERA computer store on El Camino near San Antonio, that's where I saw an Otrona Attache, I'll trade a compaq lunchbox 286 or 386 for one... :^) > > It was Otrona Attache. > It was exceptionally portable. They did an ad showing a Charlie > Chaplin > trying to carry a PC down stairs on a table; one of the first cases > where > IBM's lawyers enforced their ownership of Charlie Chaplin as a > trademark > for computers (purchased from his estate - his personal politics would > not > have gone for an association with IBM) > > It had 40 track per side drives that were upgradable to 80 track per > side. > There was an 8088 coprocessor add-in card for MS-DOS! > > -- > Fred Cisin cisin@xenosoft.com > XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Oct 30 22:04:24 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:43 2005 Subject: Um, was there a... In-Reply-To: <3B1AA278-0B47-11D8-8384-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031030230424.007df180@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 08:09 PM 10/30/03 -0600, you wrote: >Is it just me or was there a small cp/m machine >named the Ortrana Attache? > > Yes but it's spelled Otrona. It's a small portable system with a Z-80 CPU, a 5" (MOL) CRT and two HH 5 1/4" disk drives. There's also an optional 8086 CPU card that lets it run MS-DOS. Joe From waltje at pdp11.nl Thu Oct 30 22:10:04 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:43 2005 Subject: OT: Autobahns & Re: Another EBAY item, I wish I could get In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20031030165157.02baaf30@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 30 Oct 2003, Roger Merchberger wrote: > Then things sure have changed from when I was there... I drove from Oerbke > (I think that's the spelling... it's been a while since '91... 12-year > brainfog) - 50km north of Hannover, anyway - I was driving an American > Military vehicle (CUCV -> Chevy Blazer for those who've seen one) 130kph up > to Bremerhaven (with oversized balloon tires only designed to withstand > 72kph - it was *bouncy*!!) and rarely did those little, dinky, > currently-domestic Porches & Mercedes drop below 170kph, even in the > construction zones! Some of them zipped past me near cm away - that was a > rather hectic ride! Many freeways (autobahns) in Germany (and Holland *grin*) can easily be done at 180-220km/h. But during daytime, there's always the chance of traffic, and then you'd better slow down. > And you had *no* witty comeback about the beer... ;-) ;-) Well.. U.S. beer sucks. nuf said. --f From rhudson at cnonline.net Thu Oct 30 22:36:13 2003 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:43 2005 Subject: Is there a physicist in the house? Message-ID: Heisenberg says we can't know the speed of and it's location at the same time. What if I concentrate on location while timing ie is at "5" and 1 second later it's at "35" is it not going "30" per second? and while it was going 30 per second didn't I see it at 5 and 35? (note to a real physicist this question is probably meaningless...) From netsurfer_x1 at fastmailbox.net Thu Oct 30 23:36:22 2003 From: netsurfer_x1 at fastmailbox.net (David Vohs) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:43 2005 Subject: You're not dreaming (Was: Um, was there a...). In-Reply-To: <3B1AA278-0B47-11D8-8384-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> References: <3B1AA278-0B47-11D8-8384-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> Message-ID: <20031031053622.1293D374C@server1.messagingengine.com> You're not dreaming Ron, there was a small (emphasis on small) CP/M machine called the Otrona Attache. Little trivia for you, though you may already know this: People over at JPL (Jet Propulsion Labs) loved these thing when they were new. One even flew on the space shuttle! I suppose this was before they changed to GRiDs. Can anyone confirm? On Thu, 30 Oct 2003 20:09:16 -0600, "Ron Hudson" said: > Is it just me or was there a small cp/m machine > named the Ortrana Attache? > -- David Vohs netsurfer_x1@fastmailbox.net -- http://www.fastmail.fm - Consolidate POP email and Hotmail in one place From kd7bcy at teleport.com Fri Oct 31 00:12:24 2003 From: kd7bcy at teleport.com (John Rollins) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:43 2005 Subject: Is there a physicist in the house? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I believe the general principle is that at any one time an object can be in only one place, therefore when you locate an object it can have no speed because it is where it is. Speed is simply determined by how long it takes an object to get from one place to another, so finding several locations for an item is sufficient. The physics of this come into play when we want to know how fast something is going when we only get one look... It's hard to spot let alone time an object going past us at the speed of light. -JR From pat at purdueriots.com Fri Oct 31 00:29:09 2003 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:43 2005 Subject: WTB/T: RL02/01, QBUS SMD Message-ID: <200310310129.09250.pat@purdueriots.com> Well, I've tried hooking my RL02 up to a new controller, and it still doesn't turn off the "FAULT" light. Does anyone within a day's drive of Lafayette, IN have a spare that they'd be willing to trade or sell to me for semi-inexpensively? It'd be nice to fix this drive, but I'm not sure if I have the time right now to spend on it... Also, I'm looking for a QBUS SMD disk controller card, if anyone has one for similar terms as the RL0[1|2], except this is small enough to ship if you're willing. As far as trades go, I've got some QBUS PDP-11/VAX hardware, other DEC VAX machines, some DECstation 5000's and a couple of DEC 3000 (Alpha) machines I'd be willing to put up in trade. I've also got a smattering of IBM RS/6000 (Microchannel) hardware. Just tell me what you're interested in and I'll see what I can come up with. Thanks! Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ From rivie at ridgenet.net Fri Oct 31 00:45:15 2003 From: rivie at ridgenet.net (Roger Ivie) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:43 2005 Subject: VCF 6.0 in 3D Message-ID: I've posted the pictures I took at VCF 6.0 over at http://anachronda.webhop.org/~rivie/VCF6.0/ They're primarily of the Computer History Museum's collection because I like to take 3D pictures. Since I don't have a 3D camera, this involves taking two pictures, one while leaning slightly each way. People tend to move between shots, so pictures of crowded areas don't work out too well. Two view the 3D, you need to be able to either cross your eyes or make them parallel while focussing independently. If you were able to see those Magic Eye 3D art thingies that were popular a few years ago, you can do the latter; the rightmost pair of each 3D group is for you. If you cross your eyes (like me), you'll want to look at the leftmost pair. Maybe I'll be able to put together some sort of exhibit for VCF7.0 so I can have access to the exhibit area before it gets crowded... -- Roger Ivie rivie@ridgenet.net From zmerch at 30below.com Fri Oct 31 00:40:36 2003 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:43 2005 Subject: Is there a physicist in the house? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20031031013151.02a2a938@mail.30below.com> At 22:36 10/30/2003 -0600, you wrote: >Heisenberg says we can't know the speed of and it's location at >the same time. IANAP (;-) but I would think that for this to be true, it would have to be an infinitely short period of time... >What if I concentrate on location while timing > >ie is at "5" and 1 second later it's at "35" is it not going "30" >per second? >and while it was going 30 per second didn't I see it at 5 and 35? 1) Not enough information to form an hypothesis... Is going in a straight line or circle? (I was actually thinking chain printers when I read this... ;-) 2) your statement of '30 per second' *assumes* it's at a constant speed... what if it's not? It could have started at '20 per second' and ended at '50 per second'... 3) When you said "see it at 5 and 35" if you meant to append "At The Same Time" then it would have to be at two places at once... which is a totally different problem... ;-) 4) This might actually help: Once you saw it at 35, and using the time it took to calculate that it was going "30 per hour," it's not technically at 35 anymore, so 1) isn't at that location and/or 2) could have changed speed by that time... so the next time you 'saw' it at a new location (let's say 35.5) it has either changed speed or location... >(note to a real physicist this question is probably meaningless...) Note: I'm just a stupid geek... so these answers are probably meaningless... ;-) Just my 0.000000000002 (wishing physics were required teaching in school...), Roger "Merch" Merchberger From sloboyko at yahoo.com Fri Oct 31 01:27:16 2003 From: sloboyko at yahoo.com (Loboyko Steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:43 2005 Subject: HP CRT Mold Message-ID: <20031031072716.2009.qmail@web11801.mail.yahoo.com> I unsubscribed from this list because of the volume, but I still read the monthly archives. I noticed than some people were wondering about the HP CRT mold problem. I really did solve it, by building a wooden box (to contain the IMPLODING crt), and mounting the CRT in it. Then, I went to the hobby store and got some nichrome wire used in cutting foam for model airplanes. I used an old AT power supply at 12 volts to power the wire, to just below red hot (I determined the length of nichrome wire to do this with expermentally, it was about 3.5 feet). I made wooden handles with screws to hold the wire as I sliced through (very slowly!!!) the old RTV, keeping the nichrome wire towards the front glass and not touching the CRT. after the front glass came off, acetone was used to remove the remaining old RTV, and all glass surface were cleaned spotless before reassembly with aquarium RTV around the edges. Of course, this was all VERY VERY hazardous and no SANE person should EVER even CONSIDER doing this (liability issues...). I completely restored my 2644A including getting both tape drives working, good matching paint, and I even buffed the yellowing keys back to original condition (very tedious work). But it is an amazing, cost is not object machine. The switching power supply is crystal controlled!!! My tube didn't have very serious phosphor burns so I felt that it was worth this effort. If anyone wants the CRT box they can have it for the cost of shipping. Hope I won't have to use it again! You actually can buy NEW crt's like this one - for $250!!! I also put new CRT's in my ADM-3a's (much cheaper, around $45 shipped, as I recall). Some details on the HP and ADM-3a CRT replacements are at: http://juliepalooza.8m.com/sl I've been working on 6120's, tiny paper tape readers powered by laptop power supplies, and a Scelbi clone capable of running SCELBAL (which I have resurrected). ===== -Steve Loboyko Incredible wisdom actually found in a commerical fortune cookie: "When small men cast long shadows, then it is very late in the day." Website: http://juliepalooza.8m.com/sl __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spears http://launch.yahoo.com/promos/britneyspears/ From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri Oct 31 02:25:31 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:43 2005 Subject: WTB/T: RL02/01, QBUS SMD In-Reply-To: Patrick Finnegan "WTB/T: RL02/01, QBUS SMD" (Oct 31, 1:29) References: <200310310129.09250.pat@purdueriots.com> Message-ID: <10310310825.ZM20156@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Oct 31, 1:29, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > Well, I've tried hooking my RL02 up to a new controller, and it still doesn't > turn off the "FAULT" light. Is there a working terminator on the second connector on the drive? -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From eric at brouhaha.com Fri Oct 31 02:45:47 2003 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:43 2005 Subject: Rockwell R6765 datasheet? In-Reply-To: <200310310143.RAA29860@clulw009.amd.com> References: <200310310143.RAA29860@clulw009.amd.com> Message-ID: <32867.64.169.63.74.1067589947.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Dwight wrote: > check out: > http://www.htl-steyr.ac.at/~morg/pcinfo/hardware/interrupts/hard0001.htm#NEC ?PD765 Or http://andercheran.aiind.upv.es/~amstrad/docs/i8272/8272sp.htm From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Fri Oct 31 05:00:02 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:43 2005 Subject: VCF 6.0 in 3D In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3FA24EC2.28115.4BFA0E3B@localhost> > I've posted the pictures I took at VCF 6.0 over at > http://anachronda.webhop.org/~rivie/VCF6.0/ > They're primarily of the Computer History Museum's collection because I > like to take 3D pictures. Cool. One little remark, the CHM has a complete working Z23, not just parts. > Maybe I'll be able to put together some sort of exhibit for VCF7.0 so I > can have access to the exhibit area before it gets crowded... Jup, if that is what it takes to get you finaly as exhibitor... :) Also, maybe you should think about doing an exhibition of your 3D photos at VCFe ... so the people get a chance to 'tour' the Museum. Thanke H. -- VCF Europa 5.0 am 01./02. Mai 2004 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Fri Oct 31 05:47:35 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:43 2005 Subject: OT Autobahns (Was Another EBAY item, I wish I could get) In-Reply-To: References: <3FA1682A.18293.48754F3A@localhost> Message-ID: <3FA259E7.18686.4C2598C7@localhost> > > > more crime, slow autobahns, and *really* *bad* *beer*. > > No, that's not true, you may have some slow highways, but slow > > Autobahns are limited to Germany - where basicly _every_ Autobahn > > is so crowded that a parking lot gives you a better driving > > experience. If you'll do an average over all Autobahns and > > US Interstates, the Interstate system will come out first. > > At least when counting cars per kilometer. > Hmm, when I drive from here to Frankfurt, I can do a nice 210km/h > though, Hans.. must be a southern-DE slowness thing :) That must have been on the second day of Christmass at 3 am in the morning. You can hardly go for more than a few miles high speed until a truck or 'Sontagsfahrer' will break you down again to some sluggish 130 km/h (~85 mph) Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 5.0 am 01./02. Mai 2004 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Fri Oct 31 05:47:35 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:43 2005 Subject: OT: Autobahns & Re: Another EBAY item, I wish I could get & Measurements In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20031030165157.02baaf30@mail.30below.com> References: <3FA1682A.18293.48754F3A@localhost> Message-ID: <3FA259E7.28266.4C259954@localhost> > > > [snip re: Medusa/Hades/Milan/etc] > >THey are often not ready for that. Most of them are rather small > >Companies, or in most cases single person, not realy ready for > >business, and rather driven by the idea. > Then maybe their websites shouldn't say "Email me here if you want to be a > dealer! We'll get right back with you!" Or even just email me back saying > "Holy Scheisse! We're not ready to have a US Dealer!" Or even... "There's > no dealer discount or anything, and I only make 2 per week..." or > whatever... The lack of response is what I was upset about. > If their website said: "Email us and we'll never answer you back because > this is just a *#!%^~(@ hobby for us, but we wanted to put out a webpage" > --> that would have been just fine, then. ;-) I perfectly understand your anger. I usualy try to call these people up to get a reaction. Good old personal contact. It's way harder not to answer if you're addressed directly :) > > > And in the more populous areas where pickin's are easier... we still have > > > more crime, slow autobahns, and *really* *bad* *beer*. > >No, that's not true, you may have some slow highways, but slow > >Autobahns are limited to Germany - where basicly _every_ Autobahn > >is so crowded that a parking lot gives you a better driving > >experience. If you'll do an average over all Autobahns and > >US Interstates, the Interstate system will come out first. > >At least when counting cars per kilometer. > Then things sure have changed from when I was there... I drove from Oerbke > (I think that's the spelling... it's been a while since '91... 12-year > brainfog) - 50km north of Hannover, anyway - I was driving an American > Military vehicle (CUCV -> Chevy Blazer for those who've seen one) 130kph up > to Bremerhaven (with oversized balloon tires only designed to withstand > 72kph - it was *bouncy*!!) and rarely did those little, dinky, > currently-domestic Porches & Mercedes drop below 170kph, even in the > construction zones! Some of them zipped past me near cm away - that was a > rather hectic ride! For one point, trafic is ever increasing and 12 years is quite a time. And then, what's hectic in going just 130 km/h (*1)? 170 km/h is a nice travel speed for a family car ... if you can still travel at that speed. Theoretical yes , theoretical even 200 km/h (125 mph) is doable as sustained speed for almost every mid size car, it it wouldn't be for all these slow downs. It is no fun to accelerate psitive and negative (aka break) all the time. I had to travel between Munich and Konstanz (~200 km) for the last years about once per month, due company policies I had to take rental cars, and I had a wide variety between a Smart (mayimum speed 135 km/h ~85mph) average VW Golf or GM Astra (max. 210 km&h~130 mph) up to Crysler 300 or Mercedes E-class (top speed cut at 250 km/h ~160 mph), guess what, even when I was partly going way above 200 km/h (~125 mph), the difference where less than 7 minutes for a two hour drive. The fact that one is allowed to go as fast as possible and may even go that for a few minutes doesn't help at all. Now go ahead and tell me again that our Autobahn is not crowded over the limit. > The bus trip I took to Berlin was similarly unencumbered by traffic, until > we got into the city proper (which still isn't as bad on the stretch of > Interstate 75 between Bay City & Detroit, MI, at least IMHO... imagine 30km > of 25kph travel out of 100km, if you catch it the wrong time...) You see how inacceptable it has become, when even slow busses are made to slow further down. They have a speed limit of 100 km/h (but most go 110 ~70 mph). > And you had *no* witty comeback about the beer... ;-) ;-) Why? Didn't you say all necersary about that - Ok, I guess I have to hold up the stand for american beer, there are some that are drinkable. And the rest cand at least be used to anoy people. > To bring this back ontopic... I'm *still* trying to work out getting over > to VCF Europa... we'll see... > P.S. I don't have a Deutschland map handy... how far away is Munich from > Garmish? In CA measurements, Garmisch a suburb of Munich ... it's about 45 miles (70 km) Gruss H. *1 - BTW, it's km/h, not kph (like it's r/min^-1 and not rpm). km/h is not an abrevation of a word, but rather a description/ term. The unit is meter, and k is just a prefix for 1000. The nice ting about the metric (or beter SI) system is that every part fits nicely, and not just by definition. There is just one thing worse than kph ... people translating US books and keeping these hilarious abrevations. I just read a nice SF book, and the translator did keep misspellings like kps or mps (they even capitalized them!). The book even had a apendix where the terms where explained (as the US original). This is the worst kind of pseudo technoligy. Anyway -- VCF Europa 5.0 am 01./02. Mai 2004 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Oct 31 05:55:37 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:43 2005 Subject: OT: Autobahns & Re: Another EBAY item, I wish I could get In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.0.14.2.20031030165157.02baaf30@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031031065537.007e8190@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 05:10 AM 10/31/03 +0100, you wrote: >On Thu, 30 Oct 2003, Roger Merchberger wrote: > >> Then things sure have changed from when I was there... I drove from Oerbke >> (I think that's the spelling... it's been a while since '91... 12-year >> brainfog) - 50km north of Hannover, anyway - I was driving an American >> Military vehicle (CUCV -> Chevy Blazer for those who've seen one) 130kph up >> to Bremerhaven (with oversized balloon tires only designed to withstand >> 72kph - it was *bouncy*!!) and rarely did those little, dinky, >> currently-domestic Porches & Mercedes drop below 170kph, even in the >> construction zones! Some of them zipped past me near cm away - that was a >> rather hectic ride! > >Many freeways (autobahns) in Germany (and Holland *grin*) can easily >be done at 180-220km/h. But during daytime, there's always the chance >of traffic, and then you'd better slow down. > >> And you had *no* witty comeback about the beer... ;-) ;-) >Well.. U.S. beer sucks. nuf said. Is it just my imagination or does the US make the WORST beer in the world? Even the Canadians make better beer. Joe > >--f > > > From TRASH3 at splab.cas.neu.edu Fri Oct 31 07:06:21 2003 From: TRASH3 at splab.cas.neu.edu (TRASH3@splab.cas.neu.edu) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:43 2005 Subject: WTB/T: RL02/01, QBUS SMD Message-ID: <031031080621.16582@splab.cas.neu.edu> Pat, if you are willing to wait (until I get to firing it up again), I have at least one and possibly 3 SC02 emulex SMD q-bus disk controllers with manuals. They are hooked to some fujitsu drives (80 MB 8 inch and 240Mb 14 inch). I have to plug them in again and retrieve the data from the drives, and then I am going to deep-six the drives. It's on my list to do so, as I need to clean up, but I have lots going on at that site. It is a research lab at northeastern university, and I only get there a day or two a week. Joe Heck From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Oct 31 06:17:23 2003 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:43 2005 Subject: WTB/T: RL02/01, QBUS SMD References: <031031080621.16582@splab.cas.neu.edu> Message-ID: <000a01c39fa8$f12e2080$1e02a8c0@WNYC1145744> Joe's gotta take care of my 11/73 on his TO DO list first ;-) Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, October 31, 2003 8:06 AM Subject: RE: WTB/T: RL02/01, QBUS SMD > Pat, if you are willing to wait (until I get to firing it up again), I > have at least one and possibly 3 SC02 emulex SMD q-bus disk controllers > with manuals. They are hooked to some fujitsu drives (80 MB 8 inch and > 240Mb 14 inch). I have to plug them in again and retrieve the data from > the drives, and then I am going to deep-six the drives. It's on my list > to do so, as I need to clean up, but I have lots going on at that site. > It is a research lab at northeastern university, and I only get there > a day or two a week. > > Joe Heck From waltje at pdp11.nl Fri Oct 31 06:18:02 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:43 2005 Subject: OT: Autobahns & Re: Another EBAY item, I wish I could get & Measurements In-Reply-To: <3FA259E7.28266.4C259954@localhost> Message-ID: On Fri, 31 Oct 2003, Hans Franke wrote: > For one point, trafic is ever increasing and 12 years is quite a > time. And then, what's hectic in going just 130 km/h (*1)? 170 km/h > is a nice travel speed for a family car ... if you can still travel > at that speed. Theoretical yes , theoretical even 200 km/h (125 mph) Hans... last time I got pulled over in California (for those who know: I5 southbound to LA, about one-thirds through) they lasered me at a whopping 109mph. Yes, thats about 175km/h. They had been following me for a while already (so it turned out ;-) and they finally got me. When I was in court (thats the good thing about the US: you go, but so does the officer !) I asked the officer to repeat what he told me- which was "sir, really need you to slow down- A LOT. We didn't see you pull any dangerous stunts, so we'll just give you a ticket which will result in a notice to appear in court." So, even though I was speeding (100+mph in considered attempted manslaughter in CA) they let me keep my car, my license and I could continue. In court, a judge ended up fining me (trust me, you dont want to know how much..) and warning me: "this is not an Autobahn, son. I am aware of your extra training in Europe for speeds like these, but never forget our roads, and, more importantly, our drivers, cannot usually handle them. Drive slower." So.. on roads like I5 (similar to many Autobahns) they will tolerate some degree of speeding (chp told me they usually dont act on 80-90 if all is OK) but 100+ is a booboo there. [erm, two months later, I got another one *blush* this time, San Jose judge wasnt too pleased with me..] > is doable as sustained speed for almost every mid size car, it it > wouldn't be for all these slow downs. It is no fun to accelerate > psitive and negative (aka break) all the time. I had to travel > between Munich and Konstanz (~200 km) for the last years about > once per month, due company policies I had to take rental cars, > and I had a wide variety between a Smart (mayimum speed 135 km/h > ~85mph) average VW Golf or GM Astra (max. 210 km&h~130 mph) up > to Crysler 300 or Mercedes E-class (top speed cut at 250 km/h > ~160 mph), guess what, even when I was partly going way above > 200 km/h (~125 mph), the difference where less than 7 minutes for > a two hour drive. That largely depends *when* you drive, Hans. I quite often go to the Frankfurt area, and have no problems "blasting through". I travel at night, though- that helps a lot. 220-240 is no problem then, if weather and sight (and state of mind) permit. > The fact that one is allowed to go as fast as possible and may > even go that for a few minutes doesn't help at all. Now go ahead > and tell me again that our Autobahn is not crowded over the limit. Its not, at off-peak hours. Between 6-10 and 15-19, yes, its the same as here (NL) or US. Ever tried Ca. Hwy. 101 at 4pm? *grin* > You see how inacceptable it has become, when even slow busses are > made to slow further down. They have a speed limit of 100 km/h (but > most go 110 ~70 mph). Buses can do 80 or 100 here, depdning on its size. --fred From shirsch at adelphia.net Fri Oct 31 06:34:19 2003 From: shirsch at adelphia.net (Steven N. Hirsch) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:43 2005 Subject: HP terminal wanted In-Reply-To: <003a01c39f59$616c0240$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: On Thu, 30 Oct 2003, Jay West wrote: > Well, looks like I lost the ebay auction for a 2648 terminal, because I only > bid a tiny amount and forgot about the auction until 10 minutes after it was > over. Serves me right for the sniping tactic. > > So.. anyone have a decent condition 2647 or 2648 terminal they will trade or > sell? Is that an GPIB bus terminal? If so, you missed a free one by 2 weeks... After tripping over mine for the umpteenth time I dumped it at the transfer station. From jontitus at comcast.net Fri Oct 31 06:51:07 2003 From: jontitus at comcast.net (Jon Titus) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:43 2005 Subject: FTP software? Message-ID: <200310311300.h9VCxxgG071959@huey.classiccmp.org> Some time ago, members of our group suggested several alternatives to Ipswitch's WS_FTP Pro software for file transfer. I no longer have those emails, so if anyone has a particular favorite, I'd like to hear about it. An off-line email is fine. Thanks. Jon Titus From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Oct 31 06:58:48 2003 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:43 2005 Subject: FTP software? References: <200310311300.h9VCxxgG071959@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <001101c39fae$ba2f3e10$1e02a8c0@WNYC1145744> I use FTP Voyaer for Windows, FTP Explorer is another good program. Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jon Titus" To: Sent: Friday, October 31, 2003 7:51 AM Subject: FTP software? > Some time ago, members of our group suggested several alternatives to > Ipswitch's WS_FTP Pro software for file transfer. I no longer have those > emails, so if anyone has a particular favorite, I'd like to hear about it. > An off-line email is fine. > Thanks. > Jon Titus From finnegpt at purdue.edu Fri Oct 31 07:05:12 2003 From: finnegpt at purdue.edu (Pat) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:43 2005 Subject: WTB/T: RL02/01, QBUS SMD In-Reply-To: <10310310825.ZM20156@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <200310310129.09250.pat@purdueriots.com> <10310310825.ZM20156@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <200310310805.12500.finnegpt@purdue.edu> On Friday 31 October 2003 03:25, Pete Turnbull wrote: > On Oct 31, 1:29, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > > Well, I've tried hooking my RL02 up to a new controller, and it still > > doesn't > > > turn off the "FAULT" light. > > Is there a working terminator on the second connector on the drive? There *should* be... this is the second terminator I've tried and it still doesn't work, but I am not sure if the terminator works. Of course, I'm more likely to suspect the drive than the terminator I'm using... -- Pat PLUG Vice President -- http://plug.purdue.org Slackware Linux -- http://slackware.com Purdue University Research Computing -- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs From pat at purdueriots.com Fri Oct 31 07:05:38 2003 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:43 2005 Subject: WTB/T: RL02/01, QBUS SMD In-Reply-To: <10310310825.ZM20156@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <200310310129.09250.pat@purdueriots.com> <10310310825.ZM20156@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <200310310805.38141.pat@purdueriots.com> On Friday 31 October 2003 03:25, Pete Turnbull wrote: > On Oct 31, 1:29, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > > Well, I've tried hooking my RL02 up to a new controller, and it still > > doesn't > > > turn off the "FAULT" light. > > Is there a working terminator on the second connector on the drive? There *should* be... this is the second terminator I've tried and it still doesn't work, but I am not sure if the terminator works. Of course, I'm more likely to suspect the drive than the terminator I'm using... -- Pat PLUG Vice President -- http://plug.purdue.org Slackware Linux -- http://slackware.com Purdue University Research Computing -- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs From wmaddox at pacbell.net Fri Oct 31 07:11:53 2003 From: wmaddox at pacbell.net (William Maddox) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:43 2005 Subject: Friden 130 (All-electronic calculator, 1963) on EBay Message-ID: <20031031131153.17258.qmail@web80513.mail.yahoo.com> I believe this machine used an acoustic delay-line memory. A very nice piece of history. Item number: 2762297741 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2762297741&category=1247&rd=1 --Bill From GOOI at oce.nl Fri Oct 31 07:13:47 2003 From: GOOI at oce.nl (Gooijen H) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:43 2005 Subject: Is there a physicist in the house? Message-ID: <1A9EACFF5B9EB9489F00104C00ECF641027B0E13@hqvenlomail.oce.nl> Well, from what I understood from quantum physics, it is *not* possible to know location and speed (spin) at the *same* time. Also when you measure the (particle) you *influence* its behaviour. Note that I never had any quantum physics course, but this is what I seem to remember from watching the Discovery Channel. Paramount has a technician on their pay role for technical correctness in the StarTrek series. So, when they use the transporter to change matter in energy and then, at an other location, materialise the object/person from energy they have to solve the problem of the "uncertainty principle" formulated by the German (von?) Heisenberg. To make the transporter in a technical way plausible they added the "Heisenberg compensation coils" to solve the above described problem. Now, *how* those Heisenberg compensation coils operate, that's a complete different story ... have a nice weekend all, - Henk. > -----Original Message----- > From: Roger Merchberger [mailto:zmerch@30below.com] > Sent: vrijdag 31 oktober 2003 7:41 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: Is there a physicist in the house? > > > At 22:36 10/30/2003 -0600, you wrote: > > >Heisenberg says we can't know the speed of and it's > location at > >the same time. > > IANAP (;-) but I would think that for this to be true, it > would have to be > an infinitely short period of time... > > > >What if I concentrate on location while timing > > > >ie is at "5" and 1 second later it's at "35" is it > not going "30" > >per second? > >and while it was going 30 per second didn't I see it at 5 and 35? > > 1) Not enough information to form an hypothesis... Is > going in a > straight line or circle? (I was actually thinking chain > printers when I > read this... > ;-) > > 2) your statement of '30 per second' *assumes* it's at a > constant speed... > what if it's not? It could have started at '20 per second' > and ended at '50 > per second'... > > 3) When you said "see it at 5 and 35" if you meant to append > "At The Same > Time" then it would have to be at two places at once... which > is a totally > different problem... ;-) > > 4) This might actually help: Once you saw it at 35, and using > the time it > took to calculate that it was going "30 per hour," it's not > technically at > 35 anymore, so 1) isn't at that location and/or 2) could have > changed speed > by that time... so the next time you 'saw' it at a new > location (let's say > 35.5) it has either changed speed or location... > > >(note to a real physicist this question is probably meaningless...) > > Note: I'm just a stupid geek... so these answers are probably > meaningless... > ;-) > > Just my 0.000000000002 (wishing physics were required > teaching in school...), > > Roger "Merch" Merchberger From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Oct 31 07:23:26 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:43 2005 Subject: FTP software? In-Reply-To: <200310311300.h9VCxxgG071959@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031031082326.0080ada0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Hi Jon, I was the one that complained about IPSWITCH. It wasn't their software that was a problem, it was their attitude and the way I got treated by them. Long story so I won't repeat it here but let's just say that I STRONGLY recommend NOT buying any of their products. Sellam and a couple of others on the list recommended Secure FX from VanDyke Software so I downloaded it and I've been using it. It seems to work fine except that I haven't found a way to create sub-directories on the host. I have to create one with the desired name on my PC then drag it over to the host file display and then it will create it. Awkward but I can live with it. I used to use CuteFTP and it worked fine but when I started using Jay's web host I needed a FTP that supported SSH2 security and many of the shareware/freeware FTP programs don't. Joe At 07:51 AM 10/31/03 -0500, you wrote: >Some time ago, members of our group suggested several alternatives to >Ipswitch's WS_FTP Pro software for file transfer. I no longer have those >emails, so if anyone has a particular favorite, I'd like to hear about it. >An off-line email is fine. >Thanks. >Jon Titus > From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Fri Oct 31 07:23:19 2003 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:43 2005 Subject: OT: Autobahns & Re: Another EBAY item, I wish I could get & Measurements In-Reply-To: References: <3FA259E7.28266.4C259954@localhost> Message-ID: <3FA27057.4846.4C7D3F51@localhost> > > For one point, trafic is ever increasing and 12 years is quite a > > time. And then, what's hectic in going just 130 km/h (*1)? 170 km/h > > is a nice travel speed for a family car ... if you can still travel > > at that speed. Theoretical yes , theoretical even 200 km/h (125 mph) > In court, a judge ended > up fining me (trust me, you dont want to know how much..) I'm a though guy, go aheadand tell me. > and > warning me: "this is not an Autobahn, son. I am aware of your > extra training in Europe for speeds like these, but never forget > our roads, and, more importantly, our drivers, cannot usually > handle them. Drive slower." Reminds me of a local sherif somewhere in Nevada after going some 80 mph on a two lane highway: 'This is not the Autobahn!' :) > So.. on roads like I5 (similar to many Autobahns) they will > tolerate some degree of speeding (chp told me they usually dont > act on 80-90 if all is OK) but 100+ is a booboo there. I got to keep that in mind... > > is doable as sustained speed for almost every mid size car, it it > > wouldn't be for all these slow downs. It is no fun to accelerate > > psitive and negative (aka break) all the time. I had to travel > > between Munich and Konstanz (~200 km) for the last years about > > once per month, due company policies I had to take rental cars, > > and I had a wide variety between a Smart (mayimum speed 135 km/h > > ~85mph) average VW Golf or GM Astra (max. 210 km&h~130 mph) up > > to Crysler 300 or Mercedes E-class (top speed cut at 250 km/h > > ~160 mph), guess what, even when I was partly going way above > > 200 km/h (~125 mph), the difference where less than 7 minutes for > > a two hour drive. > That largely depends *when* you drive, Hans. I quite often go to > the Frankfurt area, and have no problems "blasting through". I > travel at night, though- that helps a lot. 220-240 is no problem > then, if weather and sight (and state of mind) permit. > > The fact that one is allowed to go as fast as possible and may > > even go that for a few minutes doesn't help at all. Now go ahead > > and tell me again that our Autobahn is not crowded over the limit. > Its not, at off-peak hours. Between 6-10 and 15-19, yes, its the > same as here (NL) or US. Ever tried Ca. Hwy. 101 at 4pm? *grin* Peak hours are over here by now something like 5:30 until 23:00, so 3 am is probably a goot time to be able to drive above 200 for more than a few minutes. Otherwise ot's just not worth to think about. Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 5.0 am 01./02. Mai 2004 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From allain at panix.com Fri Oct 31 08:24:52 2003 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:43 2005 Subject: Is there a physicist in the house? References: Message-ID: <003701c39fba$c00e4540$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Fundamentally you can't disprove Heisenberg with Newtonian laws, so if you think you can, you are likely wrong (to very high degree of liklihood). People have already mentioned how acceleration and smallness can mess up the measurement, but it's probably more than that. Indirectly related might be the Bose-Einstein concentrate. Scientists slowed down subatomic particles to a near stop, so they knew the position and the speed right? Apparently the particles by theory and by the experiment just "deres" or become big fuzzballs that have no definite position. "Nova" is back on the subject of Physics right now. It's funny that just when we fupposedly figure out subatomic particles, they posit that the real building blocks are things billions and billions of times smaller than that. John A. no, I'm not a Physicist either. I'm the son of an accountant and an artist, and the result was engineering. From bill_mcdermith at yahoo.com Fri Oct 31 09:35:42 2003 From: bill_mcdermith at yahoo.com (Bill McDermith) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:43 2005 Subject: Is there a physicist in the house? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3FA2814E.9020708@yahoo.com> Comments below... Ron Hudson wrote: > Heisenberg says we can't know the speed of and it's location > at the same time. Correct. > What if I concentrate on location while timing For small enough to show quantum effects, locating once will change it's speed (momentum)... > ie is at "5" and 1 second later it's at "35" is it not going > "30" per second? > and while it was going 30 per second didn't I see it at 5 and 35? For quantum-sized , there would be no way to know the at 35 was the same at 5... Measuring at 5 disturbs -- see below > (note to a real physicist this question is probably meaningless...) Not meaningless... In fact, the basis of QM. Usually stated, you can't know the momentum of a particle (p = mv, m = mass, v = veloicty, p = momentum) and the position of a particle more accurately than the uncertainty introduced by Planck's constant h = 6.626068 ? 10-34 m2 kg / s You usually talk about momentum because at relativistic speeds the mass is not a constant... This is usually explained as uncertainty introduced by measuring one or the other of the two quantities momentum or position. A simple view is an electron -- if you shoot it at a phosphor screen, it illuminates a spot, and you know exactly where it is, but you no longer know how fast it is travelling, as it gives up some of it's energy to light the phosphor. On the other hand, if you accelerate electrons between two charged plates, you can have a very good idea of the speed (therefore the momentum) of the electrons (or think of them in a cyclotron) but you have no idea of the actual position of them. The act of measuring one item affects the other... No one has come up with a way of measuring a particles position that doesn't cloud the knowlege of the particles momentum, and the reverse. Plank's constant is so small that these effects are only noticable on the scale of atomic particles, atoms, molecules, etc. and not on normal objects that we look at (the classical limit, where Newtonian mechanics is usually used...), so there is no problem with the fact that you can know the position and momentum of a billiard ball fairly accurately... There is usually a good (math) expanation of this in textbooks with the title Modern Physics (2nd year college physics texts...) -- they usually also have a good explanation of Relativity for someone who has had first year college physics using Calculus. A good explanation for non-math types is in a book called "Mr. Tompkins in Paperback" by George Gamov -- has relatively clear explanations of both QM and Relativity by writing a story where the speed of light is low enough and Planck's constant large enough to make the effects visible on "normal" objects... Bill From vcf at siconic.com Fri Oct 31 10:33:17 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:43 2005 Subject: You're not dreaming (Was: Um, was there a...). In-Reply-To: <20031031053622.1293D374C@server1.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 30 Oct 2003, David Vohs wrote: > One even flew on the space shuttle! I suppose this was before they > changed to GRiDs. Can anyone confirm? As far as I know, the GRiD Compass went up on the first Shuttle flight. Or at least, I'm certain it went up before an Attache did, since the Attache wasn't produced until well after the GRiD was around. One site puts the Attache at 1984, which sounds appropriate. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From classiccmp at earthlink.net Fri Oct 31 10:42:02 2003 From: classiccmp at earthlink.net (Classic Computers) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:43 2005 Subject: Available: Compaq Deskpro 386/20e Manuals/Diskette Message-ID: <000e01c39fcd$e98d00b0$1000a8c0@jenner.net> I have an "Operations Guide" binder for the Compaq Deskpro 386/20e available for $1 plus the cost of shipping. The binder includes these manuals: - Getting Started - System Overview - User Programs Reference - User Programs Reference Addendum - Creating a Comfortable Work Environment - Kingston Expansion Memory Boards - Installation - Options - Publications Reference - New Features, 386/25e and 286/20e Personal Computers Also included is a floppy disk: - Compaq ISA Setup/Diagnostic Ver 8.03, March 1, 1993 If you're interested, please send an email stating your interest, your preferred method of shipping, and how you would like to pay for the shipping and handling. Thanks, Dave Jenner From vcf at siconic.com Fri Oct 31 10:59:05 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:43 2005 Subject: Decidedly OT: was Re: OT: Autobahns & Re: Another EBAY item, I wish I could get & Measurements In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 31 Oct 2003, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > appear in court." So, even though I was speeding (100+mph in > considered attempted manslaughter in CA) they let me keep my Not "attempted manslaughter" but rather "reckless driving". > car, my license and I could continue. In court, a judge ended > up fining me (trust me, you dont want to know how much..) and Around $371 probably. Perhaps more if this was not your first traffic offense. > warning me: "this is not an Autobahn, son. I am aware of your > extra training in Europe for speeds like these, but never forget > our roads, and, more importantly, our drivers, cannot usually > handle them. Drive slower." The roads are perfectly fine, especially the I-5: perfectly straight and flat for literally miles makes 100+MPH driving perfectly safe. It's the other idiot drivers on the road that create dangerous situations. > So.. on roads like I5 (similar to many Autobahns) they will > tolerate some degree of speeding (chp told me they usually dont > act on 80-90 if all is OK) but 100+ is a booboo there. Hmm, that's interesting to know. Still, with my record I don't take those kinds of chances :) I once got pulled over on I5 around Bakersfield for doing 65 (then the maximum) in fog and without having my headlights on. Obviously this cop was bored. He "did me a favor" by giving me a warning only. Whatever... > [erm, two months later, I got another one *blush* this time, > San Jose judge wasnt too pleased with me..] I was "racing" a Porsche with my Honda Civic several years ago. We were over 100MPH. The Porsche dropped off and flashed his lights. I, thinking he was just sending me a friendly farewell, continued and sped off happily. Not long after, a CHP was closing in on me fast (he must've been doing 110). The ticket resulted in the mandatory court appearance. By some stroke of luck, my record was completely clean, and so the judge offered to reduce my ticket to the maximum fine under the Basic Speed Law (which is $271 and only 1 point on my record). I took it :) You CAN get arrested on the spot for doing 100+ on CA highways. But unless you're a complete dick to the officer (or you have outstanding warrants), this will never happen. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From vcf at siconic.com Fri Oct 31 11:03:36 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:43 2005 Subject: FTP software? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20031031082326.0080ada0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 31 Oct 2003, Joe wrote: > downloaded it and I've been using it. It seems to work fine except that I > haven't found a way to create sub-directories on the host. I have to create > one with the desired name on my PC then drag it over to the host file > display and then it will create it. Awkward but I can live with it. Hi Joe. To create a subdirectory on the host: first, make sure the host window is modal (or in focus, i.e. "selected"), then click on the File pulldown option, then select "New", and then the only option that should come up is "Folder..." It then asks you for the name of the new folder to be created on the host. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From waltje at pdp11.nl Fri Oct 31 11:22:00 2003 From: waltje at pdp11.nl (Fred N. van Kempen) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:44 2005 Subject: Decidedly OT: was Re: OT: Autobahns & Re: Another EBAY item, I wish I could get & Measurements In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 31 Oct 2003, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > The roads are perfectly fine, especially the I-5: perfectly straight and > flat for literally miles makes 100+MPH driving perfectly safe. It's > the other idiot drivers on the road that create dangerous situations. Yes, I5 technically can handle the speed, but the people there cant :) > Hmm, that's interesting to know. Still, with my record I don't take those > kinds of chances :) I once got pulled over on I5 around Bakersfield for > doing 65 (then the maximum) in fog and without having my headlights on. > Obviously this cop was bored. He "did me a favor" by giving me a warning > only. Whatever... Ah. Yeah, they sometimes just sit there and wait, watching.. > I was "racing" a Porsche with my Honda Civic several years ago. We were > over 100MPH. The Porsche dropped off and flashed his lights. I, thinking > he was just sending me a friendly farewell, continued and sped off > happily. Not long after, a CHP was closing in on me fast (he must've been > doing 110). The ticket resulted in the mandatory court appearance. Same here. Which resulted in an FTA, since I wasnt there, and when I found out, they had to reopen the case. > offered to reduce my ticket to the maximum fine under the Basic Speed Law > (which is $271 and only 1 point on my record). I took it :) > > You CAN get arrested on the spot for doing 100+ on CA highways. But > unless you're a complete dick to the officer (or you have outstanding > warrants), this will never happen. Or if you're an obvious danger to others, like the assholes zigzagging the lanes at 80+, or, with some officers, esp. chp, just for doing 130 and obviously having no trouble with that. :) It seems to largely depend on the officer pulling you over, and, later, a court judge and his idea on how "dangerous" speeding is. They fried me bigtime twice.. I now make it a point not to speed when I'm home in Kaua'i. --f From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri Oct 31 11:42:20 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:44 2005 Subject: WTB/T: RL02/01, QBUS SMD In-Reply-To: Pat "Re: WTB/T: RL02/01, QBUS SMD" (Oct 31, 8:05) References: <200310310129.09250.pat@purdueriots.com> <10310310825.ZM20156@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <200310310805.12500.finnegpt@purdue.edu> Message-ID: <10310311742.ZM20546@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Oct 31, 8:05, Pat wrote: > On Friday 31 October 2003 03:25, Pete Turnbull wrote: > > Is there a working terminator on the second connector on the drive? > > There *should* be... this is the second terminator I've tried and it still > doesn't work, but I am not sure if the terminator works. Of course, I'm more > likely to suspect the drive than the terminator I'm using... Looks like it. If you've tried two terminators and two controllers, all that's left is the cable or the drive. I assume you've got the ribbon cable from the controller to the bulkhead connector round the right way. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From jwest at classiccmp.org Fri Oct 31 12:11:13 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:44 2005 Subject: FTP software? References: <200310311300.h9VCxxgG071959@huey.classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <004a01c39fda$5e7ad120$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Jon wanted some ftp software... For a commercial solution... Van Dyke has the best game going. SecureFX. It supports ftp, sftp, and ftp over ssh. Reasonably priced, the tech support is first rate. I own a license for this (and SecureCRT) and am extremely happy with them, use 'em every day. For a freeware solution... WinSCP is totally freeware and can be downloaded from http://winscp.vse.cz/eng/ This program works well, albeit if you're sitting on multiple gigabit connections to the internet, you will notice it is actually a fair amount slower in sftp mode than secureFX is. For average use, probably not really noticeable.. and.. it's free! Why does everything I suggest support sftp as well as ftp? There are a lot of freeware FTP clients out there, but most do not support SFTP. They will at some point or die, because more and more service providers are starting to disallow ftp. Passwords in cleartext is "aBadThing(tm)". Also, more users are starting to get security concious even for general stuff and wanting to keep prying eyes away. So why not get something that supports both. Both of the packages above have the typical "file manager tree drag and drop" interface that is seen in the IPswitch product. Regards, Jay West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From jwest at classiccmp.org Fri Oct 31 12:19:26 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:44 2005 Subject: FTP software? (solution) References: <3.0.6.32.20031031082326.0080ada0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <006201c39fdb$848886e0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Joe wrote... > Sellam and a couple of > others on the list recommended Secure FX from VanDyke Software so I > downloaded it and I've been using it. It seems to work fine except that I > haven't found a way to create sub-directories on the host. huh? Easy... right click anywhere in the remote host window and on the popup select "new", then "folder"... just like you do in Windoze. No problem! > I used to use CuteFTP and it worked fine but when I started using Jay's > web host I needed a FTP that supported SSH2 security and many of the > shareware/freeware FTP programs don't. Sorry, we don't want users logging into our servers with passwords in cleartext, because if someone intercepts them they now have at least a login on the machine. Non root of course, but why give them a "leg up". WinSCP does support SSH (as well as traditional non-ssh connections) and is totally free. It is at http://winscp.vse.cz/eng/ Jay West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Fri Oct 31 12:21:11 2003 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:44 2005 Subject: Fwd: Tape conversion References: <000701c3a03d$f14cd760$6600a8c0@mx3000> Message-ID: <200310311021110374.03C05825@192.168.42.129> Could someone try to give this fellow a hand, please? I've long since been out of the media-conversion market. Thanks much. *********** BEGIN FORWARDED MESSAGE *********** On 31-Oct-03 at 22:03 Steve Waechter wrote: >Hey Bruce >A couple of years ago you said you could dump 3480 tapes. >(in an email conversation) >Anyway, how about 3490E and 9 track reels? >Nothing needs to be done to them, just binary copied to a CD. >Steve > >(steevo in nanae) > >Steve Waechter > >Alliant Disclosure Services Inc. >Voice (714) 257-2333 >Fax (714) 242-1313 >www.alliantdisclosure.com > *********** END FORWARDED MESSAGE *********** -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com ARS KC7GR (Formerly WD6EOS) since 12-77 -- kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com "Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati" (Red Green, aka Steve Smith) From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Fri Oct 31 12:22:48 2003 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:44 2005 Subject: OT Autobahns (Was Another EBAY item, I wish I could get) In-Reply-To: <3FA259E7.18686.4C2598C7@localhost>; from Hans.Franke@mch20.sbs.de on Fri, Oct 31, 2003 at 12:47:35 %z References: <3FA1682A.18293.48754F3A@localhost> <3FA259E7.18686.4C2598C7@localhost> Message-ID: <20031031182248.GE2865021@MrPomeroy2> On 2003.10.31 12:47 Hans Franke wrote: > That must have been on the second day of Christmass at 3 am in > the morning. You can hardly go for more than a few miles high > speed until a truck or 'Sontagsfahrer' will break you down again > to some sluggish 130 km/h (~85 mph) Traffic around M?nchen is rather thick. Try A63 Kaiserslautern-Mainz or A62 Landstuhl-Trier. A6 Landstuhl-Saarbr?cken or A6 Kaiserslautern-Mannheim at night is also no problem at sustained 200 km/h. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From pat at purdueriots.com Fri Oct 31 13:23:10 2003 From: pat at purdueriots.com (Patrick Finnegan) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:44 2005 Subject: WTB/T: RL02/01, QBUS SMD In-Reply-To: <10310311742.ZM20546@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <200310310129.09250.pat@purdueriots.com> <200310310805.12500.finnegpt@purdue.edu> <10310311742.ZM20546@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <200310311423.10120.pat@purdueriots.com> On Friday 31 October 2003 12:42, Pete Turnbull wrote: > On Oct 31, 8:05, Pat wrote: > > On Friday 31 October 2003 03:25, Pete Turnbull wrote: > > > Is there a working terminator on the second connector on the drive? > > > > There *should* be... this is the second terminator I've tried and it > > still > > > doesn't work, but I am not sure if the terminator works. Of course, > > I'm more > > > likely to suspect the drive than the terminator I'm using... > > Looks like it. If you've tried two terminators and two controllers, > all that's left is the cable or the drive. I assume you've got the > ribbon cable from the controller to the bulkhead connector round the > right way. Hmm, right that's one thing I'm not too sure about... the cable is just straight-thru, right? I'm using a makeshift cable (one of a couple that I've tried), and it's straight-thru, because I was assuming the 'real' cable is as well. Sometime today I'll try to look to see if there's anything too obvious that's wrong (eg missing 4MHz clock signal). Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS Information Technology at Purdue Research Computing and Storage http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ From vcf at siconic.com Fri Oct 31 13:54:45 2003 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:44 2005 Subject: FTP software? In-Reply-To: <004a01c39fda$5e7ad120$033310ac@kwcorp.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 31 Oct 2003, Jay West wrote: > For a commercial solution... Van Dyke has the best game going. SecureFX. It > supports ftp, sftp, and ftp over ssh. Reasonably priced, the tech support is > first rate. I own a license for this (and SecureCRT) and am extremely happy > with them, use 'em every day. I never pass up a chance to exalt Van Dyke Software. I have licenses for SecureCRT and SecureFX. The software is solid. I've never had to use their tech support. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri Oct 31 13:56:55 2003 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:44 2005 Subject: WTB/T: RL02/01, QBUS SMD In-Reply-To: Patrick Finnegan "Re: WTB/T: RL02/01, QBUS SMD" (Oct 31, 14:23) References: <200310310129.09250.pat@purdueriots.com> <200310310805.12500.finnegpt@purdue.edu> <10310311742.ZM20546@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> <200310311423.10120.pat@purdueriots.com> Message-ID: <10310311956.ZM20653@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Oct 31, 14:23, Patrick Finnegan wrote: > > Looks like it. If you've tried two terminators and two controllers, > > all that's left is the cable or the drive. I assume you've got the > > ribbon cable from the controller to the bulkhead connector round the > > right way. > > Hmm, right that's one thing I'm not too sure about... the cable is just > straight-thru, right? I'm using a makeshift cable (one of a couple that I've > tried), and it's straight-thru, because I was assuming the 'real' cable is as > well. Sometime today I'll try to look to see if there's anything too obvious > that's wrong (eg missing 4MHz clock signal). Yes, it is straight-through. One of mine has 8" of old 40-pin ribbon cable from an Acorn 2nd Processor, vintage 1985 or so, and it works fine. The back of the bulkhead connector is just a dual row of pins on 0.1" centres, and an ordinary female header fits perfectly. Of course, depending on which way up you have the bulkhead connector, you might need a half-twist in the ribbon cable. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From rivie at ridgenet.net Fri Oct 31 14:15:26 2003 From: rivie at ridgenet.net (Roger Ivie) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:44 2005 Subject: VCF 6.0 in 3D In-Reply-To: <3FA24EC2.28115.4BFA0E3B@localhost> References: <3FA24EC2.28115.4BFA0E3B@localhost> Message-ID: On Fri, 31 Oct 2003, Hans Franke wrote: > > Also, maybe you should think about doing an exhibition of your 3D > photos at VCFe ... so the people get a chance to 'tour' the Museum. [[ snip ]] > VCF Europa 5.0 am 01./02. Mai 2004 in Muenchen Hmm. Actually, I hadn't been thinking in terms of VCFe. Hmm. Munich, you say? Hmm. My wife hasn't been to Europe and she'd really enjoy the Deutsches Museum. Hmm. Could take a side trip to Stuttgart for the Daimler Benz museum; haven't been there since the mid '70s. Hmm. And I've never been to the Volkswagen Museum, despite being a Beetle fanatic. Hmm. Hmm. Well, it won't happen *this* year, but it's now on my List of Things to Do. -- Roger Ivie rivie@ridgenet.net From pwh at poggs.co.uk Fri Oct 31 14:06:46 2003 From: pwh at poggs.co.uk (Peter Hicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:44 2005 Subject: FTP software? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 31 Oct 2003, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Fri, 31 Oct 2003, Jay West wrote: > > > For a commercial solution... Van Dyke has the best game going. SecureFX. It > > supports ftp, sftp, and ftp over ssh. Reasonably priced, the tech support is > > first rate. I own a license for this (and SecureCRT) and am extremely happy > > with them, use 'em every day. > > I never pass up a chance to exalt Van Dyke Software. I have licenses for > SecureCRT and SecureFX. The software is solid. I've never had to use > their tech support. I'll second that. I've used CRT for a number of years, and SecureCRT and Entunnel for less. However, SecureCRT is my telnet/ssh application of choice on Win32 and it will be for the forseeable future. "It Just Works". Peter. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Oct 31 14:28:31 2003 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:44 2005 Subject: WTB/T: RL02/01, QBUS SMD In-Reply-To: <200310310805.12500.finnegpt@purdue.edu> from "Pat" at Oct 31, 3 08:05:12 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 740 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20031031/d4244910/attachment.ksh From jpl15 at panix.com Fri Oct 31 14:54:31 2003 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:44 2005 Subject: VCF 6.0 in 3D In-Reply-To: References: <3FA24EC2.28115.4BFA0E3B@localhost> Message-ID: On Fri, 31 Oct 2003, Roger Ivie wrote: > On Fri, 31 Oct 2003, Hans Franke wrote: > > > > VCF Europa 5.0 am 01./02. Mai 2004 in Muenchen > > Hmm. Actually, I hadn't been thinking in terms of VCFe. Hmm. Munich, you [snip] > > Well, it won't happen *this* year, but it's now on my List of Things to > Do. > -- Well, I'll see you there, then - it's *next* year..... sorrycoulndtresistwonthappenagain John From chrisc at addpower.com Fri Oct 31 15:48:46 2003 From: chrisc at addpower.com (Christopher Cureau) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:44 2005 Subject: Kaypro 2X starts up with silly display Message-ID: For what it's worth, when this sort of thing happened with a Commodore, it usually meant one of the ROMs had a problem. I never did own a Kaypro, though... Tobias Otto-Adamczak To: "General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only" cc: Sent by: Subject: Re: Kaypro 2X starts up with silly display cctech-bounces@clas siccmp.org 10/31/2003 02:58 PM Please respond to "General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only" Here are a few more details regarding the problem: I didn't start my Kaypro 2X for several years. Some weeks ago I gave it a short try and everything seemed to be okay except for the keyboard. Due to corrosion many keys didn't react. So I gave it to a friend, who first tested all the keys to see which were in need to be cleaned. The display was still okay at that time. Then he opened the keyboard and cleaned the contacts inside the keyswitches (he had to solder them out in order to do that). When he had finished the cleaning he assembled and reconnected the keyboard and started the computer. From that time the display went silly: - The powerup message shows up at random coordinates, however some of the coordinates are okay (see http://home.arcor.de/toa/tmp/kaypro-defekt.jpg). There are a lot of additional characters, most of them are '?' (n with ~ above). A few of the characters are blinking or show up with low intensity. Effect is the same with or without keyboard connected. Everytime I hit the reset button I see another random distribution. - When you type something on the keyboard (at the CP/M prompt) the characters show up at random coordinates but the blinking cursor moves in the way one would expect (one step to the right for each character, 3rd position of new line when you hit return). W/o any keyboard input the display is stable except for the blinking chars. - When you type in CP/M commands (I still have all the disks) they get executed but the output characters show up at random coordinates (see http://home.arcor.de/toa/tmp/kaypro-dir.jpg for an output of "dir"). Has anyone schematics for the Kaypro 2X? Any hints what to do next? Tobias From jwest at classiccmp.org Fri Oct 31 16:16:51 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:44 2005 Subject: test please ignore Message-ID: <00c401c39ffc$af019f80$033310ac@kwcorp.com> --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From jwest at classiccmp.org Fri Oct 31 16:19:22 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:44 2005 Subject: test number 2 please ignore Message-ID: <00ca01c39ffd$0911a740$033310ac@kwcorp.com> testing - please ignore --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From donm at cts.com Fri Oct 31 16:29:08 2003 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:44 2005 Subject: You're not dreaming (Was: Um, was there a...). In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 31 Oct 2003, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > On Thu, 30 Oct 2003, David Vohs wrote: > > > One even flew on the space shuttle! I suppose this was before they > > changed to GRiDs. Can anyone confirm? > > As far as I know, the GRiD Compass went up on the first Shuttle flight. > Or at least, I'm certain it went up before an Attache did, since the > Attache wasn't produced until well after the GRiD was around. > > One site puts the Attache at 1984, which sounds appropriate. Probably earlier than that as their BIOS & BOOT software was Copyright 1981. - don > -- > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] > [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ] > > From tomj at wps.com Fri Oct 31 16:42:01 2003 From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:44 2005 Subject: Um, was there a... [Otrona Attache] In-Reply-To: <132422F4-0B57-11D8-8384-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> References: <132422F4-0B57-11D8-8384-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> Message-ID: <1067639559.5688.13.camel@fiche-wireless> On Thu, 2003-10-30 at 20:02, Ron Hudson wrote: > On Thursday, October 30, 2003, at 09:43 PM, Fred Cisin wrote: > > > On Thu, 30 Oct 2003, Ron Hudson wrote: > >> Is it just me or was there a small cp/m machine > >> named the Ortrana Attache? > Why yes I am. But I don't have an 8088 add in card. > > Any body remember the ERA computer store on El Camino near San Antonio, > that's where I saw an Otrona Attache, I'll trade a compaq lunchbox 286 > or 386 for one... :^) I worked on the 8088/MSDOS card back when. The machine was a Z80 CP/M machine (with every chip known to Zilog in it; the designer was a real ahrdware guy...) The Z80 had an expansion slot that had a little 8-bit-wide IO prot, only. No access to peripherals, the screen, memory or disk. The 8088 side was the CPU, memory and an EPROM, and a fast buffer chip to talk to the Z80 via this (essentially a) parallel port. There was Z80-side software that consumed 100% of the cpu, and simply waited for the 8088 to issue commands to the Z80, which would go off and service them. I wrote the Z80 code, and I thik some of the 8088, but maybe not. It was a horror. The 8088 had hardware that detected references to PC-side things like "memory mapped video": when the 8088 referenced a reserved hardware address, the 8088 was put into an infinite wait state, the Z80 got an interrupt, read a code from the 8088::Z80 interface, figured out what needed to be done (say, write to CRT line 2, col 3), calculate the appropriate Z80/Otrona IO address from the 8088 "PC memory mapped video" address, issue all the commands. Slower than dog doo. Same for every character read/written to the serial port, disk, keyboard, etc. FOr things handled within the MSDOS BIOS (I wrote that) there were explicit commands issued to the Z80 for disk-block-read, etc. (Recall this was before the IBM PC caught on, so all the things you might assume for that machine, eg. ROM BIOS, standard serial ports at 0x3f8 and all that, didn't exist. When you got say a word processor program, you had to tell the program what kind of screen hardware you had. For the Otrona MSDOS, you used ANSI.) Historical footnote: The first Fido/FidoNet BBS software ran on one of these things, until the CRT module caught on fire (eg. smoke & flames). I sold it to some guy via eBay (maybe on this list!). I had two Attache's, the Fido/burned up one which was the 8088 hardwaqre prototype and not saleable, and this other one I wangled out of them. I once had the nylon carrying case. It's all gone now... I have copies of all the Otrona software (binaries) and CP/M stuff, as well as other junk, if anyone cares. I oughta put it up on the net I suppose. tomj The MSDOS "memory mapped video" > > > > > > It was Otrona Attache. > > It was exceptionally portable. They did an ad showing a Charlie > > Chaplin > > trying to carry a PC down stairs on a table; one of the first cases > > where > > IBM's lawyers enforced their ownership of Charlie Chaplin as a > > trademark > > for computers (purchased from his estate - his personal politics would > > not > > have gone for an association with IBM) > > > > It had 40 track per side drives that were upgradable to 80 track per > > side. > > There was an 8088 coprocessor add-in card for MS-DOS! > > > > -- > > Fred Cisin cisin@xenosoft.com > > XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com > > From jwest at classiccmp.org Fri Oct 31 16:45:57 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:44 2005 Subject: testing #3 please ignore Message-ID: <00f901c3a000$c02c9fe0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> testing, please ignore --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From dwoyciesjes at comcast.net Fri Oct 31 16:45:59 2003 From: dwoyciesjes at comcast.net (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:44 2005 Subject: "Woz" IIgs, & Dynabyte computers... Message-ID: <3FA2E627.7D496A84@comcast.net> Anybody looking for these? I was at Computer Recycling & Refining in North Branford, CT today. Not a bad place. About 2000 square feet. And a bunch of stuff. Two interesting things I saw were a "Woz" signed IIgs (?) and a Dynabyte computer. According to the guy there, it was the first portable? Considering it's about the size of a couple mid-tower PCs, it's not really that portable... Either way, both are for sale. Give them a call, 203-488-0535. If you looking for some other PC or Mac computers or parts (pallets), maybe some HP switched hubs (at least 1 pallet), or even a couple large Cisco Catalyst 5500 units; they may be able to help you out. They welcome visitors, just call in advance... -- ---Dave Woyciesjes ---ICQ# 905818 From jwest at classiccmp.org Fri Oct 31 16:53:26 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:44 2005 Subject: testing - again... last test I think for today Message-ID: <00ff01c3a001$cb41bb80$033310ac@kwcorp.com> another test, please ignore --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] From uban at ubanproductions.com Fri Oct 31 16:59:47 2003 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:44 2005 Subject: Next Cube B/W monitor feet? In-Reply-To: <20031031072716.2009.qmail@web11801.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20031031165841.04247400@mail.ubanproductions.com> Hello, The rubber roller "feet" on the B/W monitor for my Next Cube have turned to mush. Does anyone know if there is a replacement available for these? --tnx --tom From r_a_feldman at hotmail.com Fri Oct 31 16:51:10 2003 From: r_a_feldman at hotmail.com (Robert Feldman) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:44 2005 Subject: You're not dreaming (Was: Um, was there a...) Message-ID: Sellam wrote: >On Thu, 30 Oct 2003, David Vohs wrote: >>One even flew on the space shuttle! I suppose this was before they changed >>to GRiDs. Can anyone confirm? >As far as I know, the GRiD Compass went up on the first Shuttle flight. Or >at least, I'm certain it went up before an Attache did, since the Attache >wasn't produced until well after the GRiD was around. One site puts the >Attache at 1984, which sounds appropriate. -- Sellam Ismail My copy of the FAUG Newsletter 5#2 of Summer 1985 said that astronaut Ronald Parise was scheduled to take his Otrona Attache on a shuttle flight on March 6, 1986. However, checking Parise's NASA bio, he did not get into space until 1990, so I doubt that the Otrona went with him then. I hadn't read the piece closely before, and thought the it was a report of a past flight, not a future one. So, it remains unconfirmed, and unlikely, that an Otrona Attache went up on a shuttle filght. Bob _________________________________________________________________ See when your friends are online with MSN Messenger 6.0. Download it now FREE! http://msnmessenger-download.com From geoffreythomas at onetel.net.uk Fri Oct 31 16:46:22 2003 From: geoffreythomas at onetel.net.uk (Geoffrey Thomas) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:44 2005 Subject: Is there a physicist in the house? References: <5.1.0.14.2.20031031013151.02a2a938@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <000601c3a009$fa009d80$0c444ed5@geoff> To get the real meaning you have to consider subatomic particles, in order to know where something is or how fast it is going you have to interact with it - e.g. shine a light on it ,or if it is charged pass it through an electromagnetic field perhaps. By doing so you give the "thing" a small amount of energy which may alter it's speed or position. So you have the situation - was it where we see it now before we shone the light on it ? Try measuring something without adding to, or taking away some of , it's energy - very difficult. Want to make some real money and a Nobel prize ? -Sort that lot out. Geoff. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roger Merchberger" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Friday, October 31, 2003 6:40 AM Subject: Re: Is there a physicist in the house? > At 22:36 10/30/2003 -0600, you wrote: > > >Heisenberg says we can't know the speed of and it's location at > >the same time. > > IANAP (;-) but I would think that for this to be true, it would have to be > an infinitely short period of time... > > > >What if I concentrate on location while timing > > > >ie is at "5" and 1 second later it's at "35" is it not going "30" > >per second? > >and while it was going 30 per second didn't I see it at 5 and 35? > > 1) Not enough information to form an hypothesis... Is going in a > straight line or circle? (I was actually thinking chain printers when I > read this... > ;-) > > 2) your statement of '30 per second' *assumes* it's at a constant speed... > what if it's not? It could have started at '20 per second' and ended at '50 > per second'... > > 3) When you said "see it at 5 and 35" if you meant to append "At The Same > Time" then it would have to be at two places at once... which is a totally > different problem... ;-) > > 4) This might actually help: Once you saw it at 35, and using the time it > took to calculate that it was going "30 per hour," it's not technically at > 35 anymore, so 1) isn't at that location and/or 2) could have changed speed > by that time... so the next time you 'saw' it at a new location (let's say > 35.5) it has either changed speed or location... > > >(note to a real physicist this question is probably meaningless...) > > Note: I'm just a stupid geek... so these answers are probably meaningless... > ;-) > > Just my 0.000000000002 (wishing physics were required teaching in school...), > > Roger "Merch" Merchberger > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Oct 31 18:42:38 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:44 2005 Subject: FTP software? (solution) In-Reply-To: <006201c39fdb$848886e0$033310ac@kwcorp.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20031031082326.0080ada0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031031194238.00807e40@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I wasn't complaining. Just pointing out the differences. Joe At 12:19 PM 10/31/03 -0600, you wrote: >Joe wrote... >> Sellam and a couple of >> others on the list recommended Secure FX from VanDyke Software so I >> downloaded it and I've been using it. It seems to work fine except that I >> haven't found a way to create sub-directories on the host. >huh? Easy... right click anywhere in the remote host window and on the popup >select "new", then "folder"... just like you do in Windoze. No problem! > >> I used to use CuteFTP and it worked fine but when I started using Jay's >> web host I needed a FTP that supported SSH2 security and many of the >> shareware/freeware FTP programs don't. >Sorry, we don't want users logging into our servers with passwords in >cleartext, because if someone intercepts them they now have at least a login >on the machine. Non root of course, but why give them a "leg up". WinSCP >does support SSH (as well as traditional non-ssh connections) and is totally >free. It is at http://winscp.vse.cz/eng/ > >Jay West > >--- >[This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > > From redodd at comcast.net Fri Oct 31 19:09:24 2003 From: redodd at comcast.net (Ralph E. Dodd) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:44 2005 Subject: books & student colorimeter on ebay Message-ID: <001201c3a014$ca93cda0$6401a8c0@MAINPC> Hello, I have some old computer books and a cheap colorimeter for auction on ebay. Might be of interest for someone. Thanks. http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&userid=ralphd&rd=1 Ralph From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Oct 31 19:15:44 2003 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:44 2005 Subject: info on Data General 6243 terminal? Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031031201544.007e0320@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Does anyone have any info on the Data General model 6243 terminal? I found sites that talk about various programs that emulate it but nothing else. Joe From jwest at classiccmp.org Fri Oct 31 19:27:21 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:44 2005 Subject: info on Data General 6243 terminal? References: <3.0.6.32.20031031201544.007e0320@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <000501c3a017$4c93c330$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> why do you get all the good stuff Joe!? I'm looking for a terminal to use on a DG system, preferrably a Dasher. *whine* J ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe" To: Sent: Friday, October 31, 2003 7:15 PM Subject: info on Data General 6243 terminal? > Does anyone have any info on the Data General model 6243 terminal? I > found sites that talk about various programs that emulate it but nothing else. > > Joe > > > From jwest at classiccmp.org Fri Oct 31 19:31:41 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:44 2005 Subject: ok, another test, sorry - please ignore Message-ID: <001901c3a017$e77321c0$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Jay From jwest at classiccmp.org Fri Oct 31 20:33:24 2003 From: jwest at classiccmp.org (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:44 2005 Subject: list post response times Message-ID: <003701c3a020$862bc940$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Well, the last few tests posts to the list came back to me in under 5 minutes. I have been doing a lot of tinkering with mailman settings and sendmail. Still have some additional ideas I want to try out over the next few days, but just thought I'd let peeps know what wierdness may be afoot. I am pretty sure I can speed it up more. Your position on the recipient list used to be important, people at the top got responses immediately, people at the bottom waited forever. Now I've got a max recipients of 10 and multiple queue runners fired off and it seems lots better. But as I said, still have more testing I will be doing over the next week or two. By the way, if any cctech'ers ONLY get this email, please reply back to me, need to test that too. If it is after 10/31/03, don't reply :) Jay From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Oct 31 21:25:17 2003 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:44 2005 Subject: Anyone wanna trade??? PDP 11/84 available... References: <3B1AA278-0B47-11D8-8384-000393C5A0B6@cnonline.net> <200310302157.31583.jcwren@jcwren.com> Message-ID: <001f01c3a027$c5a2dee0$1a02a8c0@starship1> Hi, Anyone interested in a trade? I have a PDP-11/84, it is missing the 8191 Unibus adapter... what I really want is a PDP-11/x3 Qbus system, preferrably something along the lines of an 11/73 or maybe an 11/83 in a Microvax type chassis, but I'm not picky. I've been waiting a while on several people to put together some systems for me, but I would really like to get a working Qbus system as I just got my CDC-9766 and I've been spending nearly a week tearing it down, cleaning and checking it and I have an electrician come next week to install my 220v line so I can power it, so I really would like to get this beastie cozied up to a nice PDP-11 along with my RK05. Anyone interested? Curt From jpl15 at panix.com Fri Oct 31 22:01:14 2003 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:44 2005 Subject: Latency test post 8:01 pm PST Message-ID: Let's Experiment... J. From jpl15 at panix.com Fri Oct 31 22:18:17 2003 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:44 2005 Subject: Latency test post 8:01 pm PST In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, 31 Oct 2003, John Lawson wrote: > > > Let's Experiment... Yow-Zom!! 3 minutes!! Danke Mucho, Jayji! KB6SCO From bshannon at tiac.net Fri Oct 31 22:41:30 2003 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:44 2005 Subject: HP terminal wanted References: <003a01c39f59$616c0240$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> Message-ID: <3FA3397A.2060003@tiac.net> I've got one of each you can have. I'm not sure if they are working or not, but these are usually fairly easy to work on. Jay West wrote: >Well, looks like I lost the ebay auction for a 2648 terminal, because I only >bid a tiny amount and forgot about the auction until 10 minutes after it was >over. Serves me right for the sniping tactic. > >So.. anyone have a decent condition 2647 or 2648 terminal they will trade or >sell? > >Thanks! > >Jay > > From rdd at rddavis.org Fri Oct 31 23:15:08 2003 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:40:44 2005 Subject: HP terminals, Dust and Quick Fix In-Reply-To: <3FA3397A.2060003@tiac.net> References: <003a01c39f59$616c0240$6400a8c0@HPLAPTOP> <3FA3397A.2060003@tiac.net> Message-ID: <20031101050908.GC531@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Since HP terminals are being mentioned quite a bit lately, here's an easy repair/maintenance hint for some of the older HP terminals. Not sure which models are affected, but my 2382A (I think that's the right number, haven't used it for a while) used to stop working every so often. From what I recall, the display would become distorted--- displaying much smaller text, etc., and then, eventually, nothing. Every time this would happen, I would open up the case, take it outside, blow the dust out of it, bring it back in and reassemble the case. This fixed the problem every time... that terminal had a great fondness for collecting dust, thanks to it's fan... apparently it liked to collect dust as much as we like to collect computers. :-) -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty.