From ken at seefried.com Sun Apr 21 14:27:44 2002 From: ken at seefried.com (Ken Seefried) Date: Sun Feb 27 13:22:37 2005 Subject: Heath Zenith in a Faraday cage, was Secret Mac In-Reply-To: <200204181917.g3IJH5b03278@ns2.ezwind.net> References: <200204181917.g3IJH5b03278@ns2.ezwind.net> Message-ID: <20020421192744.16357.qmail@mail.seefried.com> Yup...I've seen plenty of Zeniths (i386 & i486 models) in Faraday cages. For that matter, I've seen a bunch of MacIIfx decked out similarly. Tempest rated boxes. My first job was with a shop (SecureWare) that did high security versions of Unix for these things. SCO-based for the Zeniths & A/UX-based for the Macs. The Unix was refered to as CMW (Compartmented Mode Workstation), was validated as a B1-level system (in Orange Book speak), and featured a secure window manager based on X (windows have security labels, and you couldn't do things like cut and paste between windows with different security labels). Pretty kewl, if you are into that sort of thing. Ken From ken at seefried.com Sun Apr 21 14:27:44 2002 From: ken at seefried.com (Ken Seefried) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:02:09 2005 Subject: Heath Zenith in a Faraday cage, was Secret Mac In-Reply-To: <200204181917.g3IJH5b03278@ns2.ezwind.net> References: <200204181917.g3IJH5b03278@ns2.ezwind.net> Message-ID: <20020421192744.16357.qmail@mail.seefried.com> Yup...I've seen plenty of Zeniths (i386 & i486 models) in Faraday cages. For that matter, I've seen a bunch of MacIIfx decked out similarly. Tempest rated boxes. My first job was with a shop (SecureWare) that did high security versions of Unix for these things. SCO-based for the Zeniths & A/UX-based for the Macs. The Unix was refered to as CMW (Compartmented Mode Workstation), was validated as a B1-level system (in Orange Book speak), and featured a secure window manager based on X (windows have security labels, and you couldn't do things like cut and paste between windows with different security labels). Pretty kewl, if you are into that sort of thing. Ken From fernande at internet1.net Mon Apr 1 00:11:33 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:49 2005 Subject: Soldering and other skills (was Re: QL-Quality (Was: ZX-81 Question)) References: <3CA7D835.5E4FBA46@rain.org> <15527.58298.505188.700792@phaduka.neurotica.com> <3CA7F092.3070808@internet1.net> <15527.62327.725265.883816@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <3CA7FA15.7@internet1.net> Yes, I think your right. Still, I didn't realize that it contained such a high percentage of lead. Me thinks, I'll be more carefull while handleing it in the future. Lead is absorbed through the skin if I'm not mistaken. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Dave McGuire wrote: > Nope. Solder for electronics us usually around 60% lead. You're > probably thinking of acid core vs. rosin core. > > -Dave > From marvin at rain.org Mon Apr 1 00:54:20 2002 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:49 2005 Subject: IBM 1620 References: <3CA7D835.5E4FBA46@rain.org> <15527.58298.505188.700792@phaduka.neurotica.com> <3CA7F092.3070808@internet1.net> <15527.62327.725265.883816@phaduka.neurotica.com> <3CA7FA15.7@internet1.net> Message-ID: <3CA8041C.5FF4ED2@rain.org> Take a look at Yahoo vintage auctions to find the "IBM 1620 CENTRAL PROCESSING UNIT, MANUAL 1964" at http://page.auctions.shopping.yahoo.com/auction/63778516?aucview=0x10 The current price with no bidders is $3.50. From vance at ikickass.org Mon Apr 1 01:20:20 2002 From: vance at ikickass.org (Sridhar the POWERful) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:49 2005 Subject: Soldering and other skills (was Re: QL-Quality (Was: ZX-81 Question)) In-Reply-To: <3CA7FA15.7@internet1.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 1 Apr 2002, Chad Fernandez wrote: > Yes, I think your right. Still, I didn't realize that it contained such > a high percentage of lead. Me thinks, I'll be more carefull while > handleing it in the future. Lead is absorbed through the skin if I'm > not mistaken. Even handling cool boards, pricking yourself with solder points, can be dangerous, if you do it enough. Peace... Sridhar From carlos_murillo at epm.net.co Mon Apr 1 06:48:53 2002 From: carlos_murillo at epm.net.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:49 2005 Subject: Soldering and other skills (was Re: QL-Quality (Was: ZX-81 Question)) In-Reply-To: References: <3CA7FA15.7@internet1.net> Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20020401074853.00dada88@pop1.epm.net.co> At 02:20 AM 4/1/02 -0500, you wrote: >On Mon, 1 Apr 2002, Chad Fernandez wrote: >> Yes, I think your right. Still, I didn't realize that it contained such >> a high percentage of lead. Me thinks, I'll be more carefull while >> handleing it in the future. Lead is absorbed through the skin if I'm >> not mistaken. > >Even handling cool boards, pricking yourself with solder points, can be >dangerous, if you do it enough. >Peace... Sridhar I've been soldering 25+ years. In my early teens, unaware of the poisoning risk, I used my patented 3-hand technique, which involved holding the work piece in my left hand, the soldering iron in my right hand, and the solder bobbin in my mouth... I did not actually put the solder in my mouth, but rather, I bit the edge of the plastic holder. Still, that was a very bad idea. I should probably be screened for lead... carlos. -------------------------------------------------------------- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Mon Apr 1 07:40:54 2002 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (Allison) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:49 2005 Subject: Soldering and other skills (was Re: QL-Quality (Was: ZX-81 Question)) Message-ID: <001401c1d982$d999dd80$3a7b7b7b@ajp> From: Chad Fernandez >How much lead does solder dor electronics contain? I thought only >solder for pipes contained lead? The best alloy is 63/37 63%lead 37% tin. Common variety is 60/40. The lead is not a hazard by inhalation though some of the fluxes can be. It is a contact hazard over time as it can be transfered from the skin to lips and injested. Solution, wash hands after using. Solder for pipes, by mandate has been below 5% lead for years, it used to be mostly lead {90/10}. >>>It's true. The mercury was used to stiffen the brims. Chronic hat wearers >>>also had problems. Lead is bad as it's water soluable if the PH is right. Mercury is nastier as it has a low boiling temperature and combines with Oxygen readily. Allison From Lists at joules.org Mon Apr 1 07:33:18 2002 From: Lists at joules.org (Peter Joules) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:49 2005 Subject: Soldering and other skills (was Re: QL-Quality (Was: ZX-81 Question)) In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.20020401074853.00dada88@pop1.epm.net.co> References: <3CA7FA15.7@internet1.net> <3.0.2.32.20020401074853.00dada88@pop1.epm.net.co> Message-ID: In message <3.0.2.32.20020401074853.00dada88@pop1.epm.net.co>, Carlos Murillo writes >I did not actually put the solder in my mouth, but rather, >I bit the edge of the plastic holder. Still, that was >a very bad idea. > >I should probably be screened for lead... 30 years ago I used to use my teeth to bite through solder rather than cutting it, but of course lead wasn't that dangerous in the '70s ;-). I also used to like the smell of the dust from brake linings after blowing the drums out with an air line, got my hands covered in benzene, toluene and such things in the lab and various other things which weren't particularly dangerous then... -- Regards Pete "Time flies like an arrow and fruit flies like a banana" From dtwright at uiuc.edu Mon Apr 1 08:38:34 2002 From: dtwright at uiuc.edu (Dan Wright) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:49 2005 Subject: Unix disk images and archiving In-Reply-To: References: <200203271826.AA21034@proxima.ucsd.edu.UCSD.EDU> Message-ID: <20020401143833.GA711849@uiuc.edu> Jeff, I'm not familiar with Next so this is speaking from general unix experience, but I think you need to copy the "whole disk" parition rather then the "a" partition on the OD. Assuming NextStep is using a BSD-style disk lable, which it looks like it is, "dd if=/dev/od0c of=/dev/od1c" would do it. I use this technique all the time on my linux machine to make archive copies of OS disks and it works great; the linux example would be "dd if=/dev/hdc of=", and then can be burned back to a CD later... Jeff Hellige said: > Ok, I've gotten the Pinnacle Micro Sierra 1.3GB MO drive to work using > the below disktab: > > # Pinnacle Micro Sierra optical disk drive > # ECMA 512 byte/sector media > # Disktab generated by Jessica Hayden from SunOS /etc/format.dat entry > # and NextAnswers document 1533 > PINNACLEOHD-1200|Pinnacle Sierra 1.2GB OHD|OHD-1200:\ > :ty=removable_rw_scsi:nc#5359:nt#7:ns#31:ss#512:rm#3600:\ > :fp#320:bp#256:ng#0:gs#0:ga#0:ao#0:\ > :os=sdmach:z0#64:z1#192:ro=a:\ > :pa#0:sa#1162903:ba#8192:fa#1024:ca#32:da#4096:ra#1:oa-space:\ > ia:ta=4.3BSD:aa: > > I initialized it with the following commands: > > disk -t "OHD-1200" -i /dev/rsd1a > newfs -n -v /dev/rsd1a > > I then ejected the disk and reinserted it. NS mounted it and reads > and writes to/from it just fine. It gives me nearly 600MB of space. > My next question would be what is the best way of making a bootable > copy of my internal MO disk to the Pinnacle MO? If I issue the > following command: > > dd if=/dev/rod0a of=/dev/rsd1a > > I get a read error on rod0a and dd aborts. > > If I issue the command: > > dd if=/dev/od0a of=/dev/sd1a > > dd copies data from the internal MO to the external MO but doesn't > copy the data in the subdirectories. Any suggestions? Would dump be > better for this? > > Thanks > Jeff > -- > Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File > http://www.cchaven.com > http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 - Dan Wright (dtwright@uiuc.edu) (http://www.uiuc.edu/~dtwright) -] ------------------------------ [-] -------------------------------- [- ``Weave a circle round him thrice, / And close your eyes with holy dread, For he on honeydew hath fed, / and drunk the milk of Paradise.'' Samuel Taylor Coleridge, Kubla Khan From jhellige at earthlink.net Mon Apr 1 09:12:59 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:49 2005 Subject: Unix disk images and archiving In-Reply-To: <20020401143833.GA711849@uiuc.edu> References: <200203271826.AA21034@proxima.ucsd.edu.UCSD.EDU> <20020401143833.GA711849@uiuc.edu> Message-ID: <02Apr1.103313est.119046@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> >I'm not familiar with Next so this is speaking from general unix experience, >but I think you need to copy the "whole disk" parition rather then the "a" >partition on the OD. Assuming NextStep is using a BSD-style disk lable, which >it looks like it is, "dd if=/dev/od0c of=/dev/od1c" would do it. I use this >technique all the time on my linux machine to make archive copies of OS disks >and it works great; the linux example would be "dd if=/dev/hdc of=", and >then can be burned back to a CD later... Actually I got it working with 'dump' piped through 'restore', thanks to the suggestion from another list member. I was able to dump two of the NeXT optical disks to the Pinnacle, for archiving, and then dump one of them to an external 1GB hard disk. I have some fstab issues to work out with the copy though as it insists on booting into single-user mode looking for the optical disk in the internal drive. It gave me the same thing when I attempted to boot from the Pinnacle with it set to SCSI ID#0. I'm getting there, even if it is slowly. I still plan on messing with dd some more to try and create some images of the disks though. I'm hoping that since it has the dust filter installed that the optical drive in my Dimension Cube holds up long enough to finish transferring all of them. Since it doesn't have an internal boot drive, just a 40MB swapdrive at SCSI ID#6, I'm doing the test boots on my '030 Cube but using my extra '040 mainboard. I loaded the '030 mainboard with RAM and started to boot it and found out that it was set to boot over ethernet and that it had a hardware password set! Hopefully by the time I get home the mainboard will have forgotten it's hardware settings since it's been sitting with the battery out overnight. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From SALTOVDP at aol.com Mon Apr 1 09:29:10 2002 From: SALTOVDP at aol.com (SALTOVDP@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:49 2005 Subject: Dell monitor transistor Message-ID: <16d.b53714f.29d9d6c6@aol.com> Hi i have a line o/p transistor, s/c base/emitter 2SC5386 .Have you any info on its rating or equivelent kind regards robbie saltovdp@aol.com From mcguire at neurotica.com Mon Apr 1 10:17:32 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:49 2005 Subject: Soldering and other skills (was Re: QL-Quality (Was: ZX-81 Question)) In-Reply-To: Re: Soldering and other skills (was Re: QL-Quality (Was: ZX-81 Question)) (Sridhar the POWERful) References: <3CA7FA15.7@internet1.net> Message-ID: <15528.34844.215669.743832@phaduka.neurotica.com> On April 1, Sridhar the POWERful wrote: > > Yes, I think your right. Still, I didn't realize that it contained such > > a high percentage of lead. Me thinks, I'll be more carefull while > > handleing it in the future. Lead is absorbed through the skin if I'm > > not mistaken. > > Even handling cool boards, pricking yourself with solder points, can be > dangerous, if you do it enough. Ahh, so handling Cray, Sun, or VAX boards can be dangerous, but those not-so-cool boards...say, ISA or PeeCee motherboards...are safe? ;) -Dave -- Dave McGuire "...it's leaving me this unpleasant, St. Petersburg, FL damp feeling on my shorts..." -Sridhar From geoffr at zipcon.net Mon Apr 1 10:31:27 2002 From: geoffr at zipcon.net (Geoff Reed) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:49 2005 Subject: Dell monitor transistor In-Reply-To: <16d.b53714f.29d9d6c6@aol.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020401080950.04351260@mail.zipcon.net> At 10:29 AM 4/1/02 -0500, you wrote: >Hi i have a line o/p transistor, s/c base/emitter 2SC5386 .Have you any info >on its rating or equivelent >kind regards robbie http://www.chipdocs.com/pndecoder/datasheets/TOS/2SC5386.html?ReR=GG Here is it's datasheet in PDF format http://doc.semicon.toshiba.co.jp/pdf_e/docweb123/e007774.pdf A possible sub for the Toshiba 2SC5386 might be Sanyo's 2SC5297 http://www.electrospec-inc.com/ possible source for parts From jos.mar at bluewin.ch Mon Apr 1 11:53:52 2002 From: jos.mar at bluewin.ch (Jos Dreesen) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:50 2005 Subject: 6809 single board computer (was: "New" PDP-8) References: <1f9vaut.vldvs7g5p4zyM%tlindner@ix.netcom.com> <3CA71A98.72168B9A@gifford.co.uk> Message-ID: <3CA89EB0.EA563F@bluewin.ch> John Honniball wrote: > > > Something like the CMU Free6809 board would be great, but I'd > prefer to add a CRT coltroller to get a video display. I'd > also want a keyboard interface so that the machine could > be independent of a terminal. Maybe even a disk interface > of some sort, and the AY-3-8910 sound chip, and a parallel > port, and... Oh dear, now I'm making it too complicated! > My SWTP/c contains a third-party board called "the communicator" with a 6845 CRTC. Complexity is low : 6845, 2K sram, character generator and around 10 TTL IC's. It produces a standard 80x25 output. The same board also contains a 6821 to interface to a parallel ouput keyboard. The floppy interface of the SWTPc is also rather simple. Jos Dreesen From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Mon Apr 1 10:48:24 2002 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:50 2005 Subject: It saddens me to do this.... Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA615014677D9@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> I'm not sure if it was mentioned, but the @Home service went bankrupt right about that time. I remember hearing about a lot of Comcast cable internet customers having a bitch of a time getting their e-mail switched around correctly after that... --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 Mac OS X 10.1.2 - Darwin Kernel Version 5.2: Fri Dec 7 21:39:35 PST 2001 Running since 01/22/2002 without a crash > ---------- > From: Glen Goodwin > > > From: Curt Vendel > > > Back before Christmas I worked out a deal with Jeff Worley: > > > > Jeffrey S. Worley > > Asheville, NC USA > > 828-6984887 > > UberTechnoid@Home.com > > I'm sorry to learn you were ripped off. Thanks for the heads-up. > > Glen > 0/0 > > > > From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Mon Apr 1 11:32:57 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:50 2005 Subject: 6809 single board computer (was: "New" PDP-8) References: <1f9vaut.vldvs7g5p4zyM%tlindner@ix.netcom.com> <3CA71A98.72168B9A@gifford.co.uk> <3CA89EB0.EA563F@bluewin.ch> Message-ID: <3CA899C9.12359887@jetnet.ab.ca> Jos Dreesen wrote: > > John Honniball wrote: > > > > > > Something like the CMU Free6809 board would be great, but I'd > > prefer to add a CRT coltroller to get a video display. I'd > > also want a keyboard interface so that the machine could > > be independent of a terminal. Maybe even a disk interface > > of some sort, and the AY-3-8910 sound chip, and a parallel > > port, and... Oh dear, now I'm making it too complicated! > > > > My SWTP/c contains a third-party board called "the communicator" with a 6845 > CRTC. Complexity is low : 6845, 2K sram, character generator and around 10 TTL > IC's. It produces a standard 80x25 output. > The same board also contains a 6821 to interface to a parallel ouput keyboard. > The floppy interface of the SWTPc is also rather simple. > > Jos Dreesen The trouble is getting a display for it. Unless it does Monochrome or vga output it is hard to find any monitors for anything older. -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From vcf at siconic.com Mon Apr 1 04:10:15 2002 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:50 2005 Subject: S-100 Computers in New York, NeXT printers in California Message-ID: Hi. I called the guy in New York who is giving away all those Cromemco S-100 systems. He said someone was coming to pick everything up. I didn't want to be rude and ask who. I was interested in a couple pieces. Would the person who is picking those up please contact me? I'm hoping we can work out a deal. On another note, I accidentally deleted the Usenet message from the guy in the Bay Area (in California) who is selling a bunch of NeXT laser printers for $15. Does someone still have his contact info? Thanks! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From csmith at amdocs.com Mon Apr 1 12:25:40 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:50 2005 Subject: The Future End of Classic Computing Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E260BCA@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Doc [mailto:doc@mdrconsult.com] > Please, please don't assume that the idiocy, the long-term impact on > innovation and economy, or even the legality of this bill have ANY > bearing on its likelihood of passing. Yep. > These puppet politicians really don't have a clue or a care what > they're sponsoring, and a lot of basically honest legislators are not > only absolutely illiterate concerning, but completely unaware > of, non-MS > computing and digital media technology in general. They can You're much more kind to them than I. I would have simply said they're treasonous, and have never heard of the US constitution. Regards, Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From vcf at siconic.com Mon Apr 1 04:36:30 2002 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:50 2005 Subject: C128, Tandy 1000 to good home Message-ID: Please reply directly to Jerry. He's located in East Alton, Illinois, about 20 miles North of St. Louis. Reply-to: bargeboy@charter.net ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 11:19:45 -0600 From: bargeboy@charter.net Subject: old computers Hi there, I have and old commodore 128, disk drive, z80 programming software, assorted software, printers and such. I also have a Tandy 1000 hx computer and disk drive. As of my last using they all worked and I need to get rid of them but I would like them to go to a good home. I'm wondering if you might like them? Thanks - Jerry L. Mullins -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From zaft at azstarnet.com Mon Apr 1 12:36:20 2002 From: zaft at azstarnet.com (Gordon Zaft) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:50 2005 Subject: 6809 single board computer (was: "New" PDP-8) In-Reply-To: <3CA89EB0.EA563F@bluewin.ch> References: <1f9vaut.vldvs7g5p4zyM%tlindner@ix.netcom.com> <3CA71A98.72168B9A@gifford.co.uk> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020401113551.028c2a28@mail.azstarnet.com> At 07:53 PM 4/1/2002 +0200, you wrote: >John Honniball wrote: > > > > > > Something like the CMU Free6809 board would be great, but I'd > > prefer to add a CRT coltroller to get a video display. I'd > > also want a keyboard interface so that the machine could > > be independent of a terminal. Maybe even a disk interface > > of some sort, and the AY-3-8910 sound chip, and a parallel > > port, and... Oh dear, now I'm making it too complicated! > > Pardon me if I missed the first part of this discussion. What is the CMU Free6809 board and where/how can I get one? GZ From vcf at siconic.com Mon Apr 1 04:38:52 2002 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:50 2005 Subject: Apple //gs in Long Island, New York Message-ID: Hank has an Apple //gs to give away. Contact him, not me. Reply-to: emann@suffolk.lib.ny.us >On Sun, 24 Mar 2002, Hank Mann wrote: > >> I have an Apple 2 gs I would like to donate. Has cpu, monitor, two 3.5" >> drives, one 5.25" drive keyboard, Imagewriter2 printer, mouse(new), >> mouse(original-bad switch), manuals, 20+ software titles inc. >> AppleWorksGS 1.1. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From eklein at impac.com Mon Apr 1 12:40:42 2002 From: eklein at impac.com (Erik S. Klein) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:50 2005 Subject: S-100 Computers in New York, NeXT printers in California In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <002901c1d9ac$baa396d0$e6f8b8ce@impac.com> The gentleman with the S-100 gear in NY told me that there were 3 inquiries before mine, two of which were requests for the entire setup. . . oh, well. The NeXT printers are from ronfronberg@earthlink.net (Redwood City, CA) Erik S. Klein -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Vintage Computer Festival Sent: Monday, April 01, 2002 2:10 AM To: Classic Computers Mailing List Subject: S-100 Computers in New York, NeXT printers in California Hi. I called the guy in New York who is giving away all those Cromemco S-100 systems. He said someone was coming to pick everything up. I didn't want to be rude and ask who. I was interested in a couple pieces. Would the person who is picking those up please contact me? I'm hoping we can work out a deal. On another note, I accidentally deleted the Usenet message from the guy in the Bay Area (in California) who is selling a bunch of NeXT laser printers for $15. Does someone still have his contact info? Thanks! -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Apr 1 12:45:38 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:50 2005 Subject: The Future End of Classic Computing In-Reply-To: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E260BCA@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 1 Apr 2002, Christopher Smith wrote: > > These puppet politicians really don't have a clue or a care what > > they're sponsoring, and a lot of basically honest legislators are not > > only absolutely illiterate concerning, but completely unaware > > of, non-MS > > computing and digital media technology in general. They can > You're much more kind to them than I. I would have simply > said they're treasonous, and have never heard of the US > constitution. Do you remember twenty years ago, when the IRS blocked Apple's proposal to give computers to all of the schools? From vance at ikickass.org Mon Apr 1 12:48:56 2002 From: vance at ikickass.org (Sridhar the POWERful) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:50 2005 Subject: Looking for... Message-ID: Anyone know where I might be able to find a Tandy 4000? It's the Microchannel Tandy. Peace... Sridhar From bob at jftr.com Mon Apr 1 12:53:12 2002 From: bob at jftr.com (bob@jftr.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:50 2005 Subject: FWD: RSTS/E Manuals Message-ID: <004801c1d9ae$799f3b60$5408000a@crosstier.local> OK .. very old thread.. I know of the galaxy/5. Did a lot of programming on the beast, including creating a system call MTS -- Multi-Tasking System that let you run multiple programs per monitor. It was a lot of fun to program. Only about 30 of the things made. -- Bob Flanders -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020401/58a12b57/attachment.html From coredump at gifford.co.uk Mon Apr 1 12:55:43 2002 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:50 2005 Subject: 6809 single board computer (was: "New" PDP-8) References: <1f9vaut.vldvs7g5p4zyM%tlindner@ix.netcom.com> <3CA71A98.72168B9A@gifford.co.uk> <3CA89EB0.EA563F@bluewin.ch> <3CA899C9.12359887@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <3CA8AD2F.85F78C2F@gifford.co.uk> Ben Franchuk wrote: > Jos Dreesen wrote: > > My SWTP/c contains a third-party board called "the communicator" with a 6845 > > CRTC. Complexity is low : 6845, 2K sram, character generator and around 10 TTL > > IC's. It produces a standard 80x25 output. > > Jos Dreesen > The trouble is getting a display for it. Unless it does Monochrome or > vga output it is hard to find any monitors for anything older. That's another dilemma: do I go for "authentic" composite video at broadcast TV rates, or do I use a VGA monitor? If I choose TV output, the quality's poor and the design only works right for UK TV systems (625 line, 50Hz, PAL). It would need to be changed if anyone wanted a US version (525 line, 60Hz, NTSC). But if I go for VGA, well, that's 15 years old now, I suppose... just seems too "modern", somehow. What I'd really like to do is run the display in portrait mode. -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Apr 1 12:56:02 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:50 2005 Subject: Soldering and other skills (was Re: QL-Quality (Was: ZX-81 In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.20020331203827.00da9dd4@pop1.epm.net.co> from "Carlos Murillo" at Mar 31, 2 08:38:27 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 408 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020401/bb8c0773/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Apr 1 13:02:47 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:50 2005 Subject: Soldering and other skills (was Re: QL-Quality (Was: ZX-81 Question)) In-Reply-To: <3CA7F092.3070808@internet1.net> from "Chad Fernandez" at Apr 1, 2 00:30:58 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 957 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020401/ee10f8d3/attachment.ksh From csmith at amdocs.com Mon Apr 1 13:04:07 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:50 2005 Subject: QL-Quality (Was: ZX-81 Question) Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E260BCB@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk [mailto:ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk] > But soldering in a new chip is, to me, about the same 'skill > level' as > patching a system program written in a high level language. > Which I most > certainly have done, and which I suspect many others here > have done too. I agree with that, though, if a socket will fit, it's generally a better thing to solder a new socket, and just put the chip in ;) Many others have probably soldered new chips too. :) I think that several people on this list already have basic soldering skills. It's just when it gets more advanced than that, the skills are not there. Most people I know can solder some, but they need more practice to be very competent. It's just a question of degree. Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From jhellige at earthlink.net Mon Apr 1 13:09:30 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:50 2005 Subject: Looking for... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <02Apr1.142944est.119048@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> >Anyone know where I might be able to find a Tandy 4000? It's the >Microchannel Tandy. Actually the 5000MC is the MCA Tandy machine. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From dquebbeman at acm.org Mon Apr 1 13:13:17 2002 From: dquebbeman at acm.org (Douglas H. Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:50 2005 Subject: The Future End of Classic Computing Message-ID: <000701c1d9b1$47d75e20$e401a8c0@tegjeff.com> >From the subjectline, I see this post *finally* made it... I was beginning to think Jack Valenti was censoring me... > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Doc [mailto:doc@mdrconsult.com] > > > Please, please don't assume that the idiocy, the long-term impact on > > innovation and economy, or even the legality of this bill have ANY > > bearing on its likelihood of passing. > > Yep. > > > These puppet politicians really don't have a clue or a care what > > they're sponsoring, and a lot of basically honest legislators are not > > only absolutely illiterate concerning, but completely unaware of, non-MS > > computing and digital media technology in general. They can > > You're much more kind to them than I. I would have simply > said they're treasonous, and have never heard of the US > constitution. Adam Schiff, another congressman from California, is proposing a similiar law. Adam has stated that he doesn't expect the law to pass, but that its sole purpose is to gain leverage against the high-tech industry regarding the copyright issue and in favor of the entertainments industry. In other words, they we'll all be sufficiently scared that we'll finally give up some ground in the copyright issue. What ground is left to give up? They've already lengthened the terms of protection when they should have been shortening them. To my way of thinking, that constitutes abuse of process, and makes Fritz Hollings and Adam Schiff not merely traitors, but persona non grata. -dq -Douglas Hurst Quebbeman (DougQ at ixsnayamspayIgLou.com) [Call me "Doug"] Surgically excise the pig-latin from my e-mail address in order to reply "The large print giveth, and the small print taketh away." -Tom Waits From stanb at dial.pipex.com Mon Apr 1 06:08:37 2002 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:50 2005 Subject: Soldering and other skills (was Re: QL-Quality (Was: ZX-81 Question)) In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 31 Mar 2002 23:36:10 CDT." <15527.58298.505188.700792@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <200204011208.NAA28374@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, Dave McGuire said: > On March 31, John Chris Wren wrote: > > It's true. The mercury was used to stiffen the brims. Chronic hat wearers > > also had problems. > > So does anyone have any idea how much lead is present in the vapors > produced by soldering? I know (for our kind of stuff, anyway) the > smoke is mostly flux and crap, but is there much lead in there? > > I solder a *lot*, especially lately...I'm wondering if I should be > concerned. I've been soldering now for around 45 years, and I used to do a lot of bullet casting so I've handled a *lot* of lead in my time. I was taken ill a few years ago with some symptons that could be remotely explained by heavy metal poisoning so I was thoroughly tested. My lead levels were right on the average for someone living in an urban environment. So if you're sensible I don't see a problem. Don't eat sandwiches while you're soldering...and wash your hands when you're done ;-) Lead in gasoline (petrol over here) was a bigger problem. Resin flux is a known carcinogen, so don't breathe the fumes. -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From univac2 at earthlink.net Mon Apr 1 13:21:33 2002 From: univac2 at earthlink.net (Owen Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:50 2005 Subject: Looking for... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 4/1/02 12:48 PM, Sridhar the POWERful at vance@ikickass.org wrote: > Anyone know where I might be able to find a Tandy 4000? It's the > Microchannel Tandy. > > Peace... Sridhar A couple years ago, the RadioShack outlet store here in Fort Worth had a pile of 4000 CPUs. I think they're gone now though. I'll make sure the next time I'm down there. -- Owen Robertson From vance at ikickass.org Mon Apr 1 13:22:05 2002 From: vance at ikickass.org (Sridhar the POWERful) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:50 2005 Subject: Looking for... In-Reply-To: <02Apr1.142944est.119048@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> Message-ID: On Mon, 1 Apr 2002, Jeff Hellige wrote: > >Anyone know where I might be able to find a Tandy 4000? It's the > >Microchannel Tandy. > > Actually the 5000MC is the MCA Tandy machine. I stand corrected. Anyone know where I can get a 5000MC? Peace... Sridhar From coredump at gifford.co.uk Mon Apr 1 13:26:47 2002 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:50 2005 Subject: 6809 single board computer (was: "New" PDP-8) References: <1f9vaut.vldvs7g5p4zyM%tlindner@ix.netcom.com> <3CA71A98.72168B9A@gifford.co.uk> <4.3.2.7.2.20020401113551.028c2a28@mail.azstarnet.com> Message-ID: <3CA8B476.9D967A4@gifford.co.uk> Gordon Zaft wrote: > Pardon me if I missed the first part of this discussion. What is > the CMU Free6809 board and where/how can I get one? It's a 1993 design for a very simple 6809-based machine. It has a serial port (68B50), RAM (6264) and EPROM (2764). There's also an 8-bit latch for parallel output and I think you can set it up for a regular timer interrupt. The posting that started off the discussion was from Tim Lindner: > I found a copy on an unofficial mirror of RTSI: > > ftp://mirror.cocounravelled.com/OS9/OS9_6X09/PROG/Free6809.lzh > > For thoes of you unable to decode an LZH file I will also post a zip > file here: > > http://home.netcom.com/~tlindner/Download/Free6809.zip > > I also converted the included postscript file into a PDF. > > -- > tim lindner tlindner@ix.netcom.com -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From zmerch at 30below.com Mon Apr 1 13:27:11 2002 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:50 2005 Subject: Looking for... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020401142711.017327b0@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Sridhar the POWERful may have mentioned these words: > >Anyone know where I might be able to find a Tandy 4000? It's the >Microchannel Tandy. Are you sure? I worked for Tandy as a salesman during that timeframe, and the *only* Tandy that I know of that was ever MicroChannel was the Tandy 5000MC (gee, guess what the MC stood for... ;-) And guess what the 5000 stood for: the cost... IIRC they were $4999 each! (I cannot confirm... the catalogs that I have that listed those are packed away, so others will have to jump in here...) Methinks a goodly chunk of that was IBM's licensing of the buss... HTH, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. From mcguire at neurotica.com Mon Apr 1 13:33:04 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:50 2005 Subject: Soldering and other skills (was Re: QL-Quality (Was: ZX-81 Question)) In-Reply-To: Re: Soldering and other skills (was Re: QL-Quality (Was: ZX-81 Question)) (Stan Barr) References: <15527.58298.505188.700792@phaduka.neurotica.com> <200204011208.NAA28374@citadel.metropolis.local> Message-ID: <15528.46576.845805.877598@phaduka.neurotica.com> On April 1, Stan Barr wrote: > I've been soldering now for around 45 years, and I used to do a lot > of bullet casting so I've handled a *lot* of lead in my time. > I was taken ill a few years ago with some symptons that could be > remotely explained by heavy metal poisoning so I was thoroughly tested. > My lead levels were right on the average for someone living in an > urban environment. So if you're sensible I don't see a problem. > Don't eat sandwiches while you're soldering...and wash your hands when > you're done ;-) Lead in gasoline (petrol over here) was a bigger > problem. What did those heavy metal teste involve, if you don't mind my asking? > Resin flux is a known carcinogen, so don't breathe the fumes. Oh, yuck, I didn't know that...I think I'll invest in one of those filtered blowers. -Dave -- Dave McGuire "...it's leaving me this unpleasant, St. Petersburg, FL damp feeling on my shorts..." -Sridhar From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Apr 1 13:06:10 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:50 2005 Subject: Soldering and other skills (was Re: QL-Quality (Was: ZX-81 In-Reply-To: from "Sridhar the POWERful" at Apr 1, 2 02:20:20 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 233 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020401/a38c01d8/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Apr 1 13:21:34 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:50 2005 Subject: 6809 single board computer (was: "New" PDP-8) In-Reply-To: <3CA899C9.12359887@jetnet.ab.ca> from "Ben Franchuk" at Apr 1, 2 10:32:57 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1056 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020401/d848bf37/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Apr 1 13:55:27 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:50 2005 Subject: Soldering and other skills (was Re: QL-Quality (Was: ZX-81 Question)) In-Reply-To: <200204011208.NAA28374@citadel.metropolis.local> from "Stan Barr" at Apr 1, 2 01:08:37 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 431 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020401/16bcef72/attachment.ksh From csmith at amdocs.com Mon Apr 1 13:55:47 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:50 2005 Subject: The Future End of Classic Computing Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E260BCE@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Douglas H. Quebbeman [mailto:dquebbeman@acm.org] > Adam Schiff, another congressman from California, is proposing > a similiar law. Adam has stated that he doesn't expect the law to > pass, but that its sole purpose is to gain leverage against the > high-tech industry regarding the copyright issue and in favor of > the entertainments industry. > In other words, they we'll all be sufficiently scared that > we'll finally > give up some ground in the copyright issue. What ground is left > to give up? They've already lengthened the terms of protection > when they should have been shortening them. What issue is there? If they don't like copyright as it was originally defined, fine. Abolish it. That's fair, and everyone's still on equal ground. :) None of this "insert exception [a] into loophole [b]" crap. Do I deserve extra protection because my work is easier to duplicate? I think not. > To my way of thinking, that constitutes abuse of process, and makes > Fritz Hollings and Adam Schiff not merely traitors, but > persona non grata. I think Mr. Schiff ought to be required to reimburse the government for the salaries (plus usage of buildings, etc) of all the people whose time he wastes with his bill. That ought to be enough to spend all the money that some companies are paying him for it, plus his own salary, and make him get a job at McDonalds to make ends meet. Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Apr 1 13:59:11 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:50 2005 Subject: QL-Quality (Was: ZX-81 Question) In-Reply-To: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E260BCB@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> from "Christopher Smith" at Apr 1, 2 01:04:07 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1201 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020401/e57df30e/attachment.ksh From mcguire at neurotica.com Mon Apr 1 14:00:46 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:50 2005 Subject: 6809 single board computer (was: "New" PDP-8) In-Reply-To: Re: 6809 single board computer (was: "New" PDP-8) (Tony Duell) References: <3CA899C9.12359887@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <15528.48238.695413.263138@phaduka.neurotica.com> On April 1, Tony Duell wrote: > In the UK, just about every colour TV has a SCART socket. This gives you > composite (PAL) colour (or monochrome, of course) and analogue RGB inputs > at TV scan rates. Hey, that is *cool*! > Is it really that hard to find a TV-rate monochrome monitor? Surely > they're still used for video applications. OK, you don't find them in the > local PC shop, but then you don't find much of use there. NTSC monitors are everywhere in the US...both CRT and LCD... -Dave -- Dave McGuire "...it's leaving me this unpleasant, St. Petersburg, FL damp feeling on my shorts..." -Sridhar From jhellige at earthlink.net Mon Apr 1 14:18:42 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:50 2005 Subject: Soldering and other skills (was Re: QL-Quality (Was: ZX-81 Question)) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <02Apr1.153855est.119045@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> > > > Resin flux is a known carcinogen, so don't breathe the fumes. > >Oh _great_. Still, it's a well-known fact that research causes cancer in >rats :-) I would imagine that with all the junk in the air now that unless you breathe flux vapors and other such things in large quantities that it really doesn't make a lot of difference. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From csmith at amdocs.com Mon Apr 1 14:19:01 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:50 2005 Subject: QL-Quality (Was: ZX-81 Question) Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E260BD0@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk [mailto:ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk] > IIRC, this discussion started when I pointed out that the > fact that the > QL was on one PCB didn't make it hard to do repairs -- just > solder in a > new chip. The QL is all pin-through-hole DIP chips, the type > that's the > easiest to repalce. And yet people still moaned about my comments... Well, if it makes you feel better, I agree. I certainly would solder a DIP if it became necessary. I have done similar things (the power supply connector on my DEC Multia mainboard, which is about the same spacing), even on new machines, with no problem. (Yes, the Multia works now) Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From carlos_murillo at epm.net.co Mon Apr 1 14:57:11 2002 From: carlos_murillo at epm.net.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:50 2005 Subject: Soldering and other skills (was Re: QL-Quality (Was: ZX-81 Question)) In-Reply-To: <200204011208.NAA28374@citadel.metropolis.local> References: Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20020401155711.00ea2e60@pop1.epm.net.co> At 01:08 PM 4/1/02 +0100, you wrote: >Resin flux is a known carcinogen, so don't breathe the fumes. >-- >Cheers, >Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com Darn! that too? Those fumes have a habit of condensing on my eyeglasses, so I am probably inhaling. carlos. -------------------------------------------------------------- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org From doc at mdrconsult.com Mon Apr 1 16:06:37 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:50 2005 Subject: Soldering and other skills (was Re: QL-Quality (Was: ZX-81 Question)) In-Reply-To: <200204011208.NAA28374@citadel.metropolis.local> Message-ID: On Mon, 1 Apr 2002, Stan Barr wrote: > I've been soldering now for around 45 years, and I used to do a lot > of bullet casting so I've handled a *lot* of lead in my time. Yay!! Geeks With Guns!!! Actually, that's the unofficial designation of a local Linux SIG.... An amazing percentage of serious computer hobbyists seem to also like blowing stuff up. Doc From doc at mdrconsult.com Mon Apr 1 16:11:24 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:50 2005 Subject: OT: MS/Unisys Have Made My Day Message-ID: Y'all please excuse the blatantly off-topicness. But this one is Just Too Good. http://news.com.com/2100-1001-872266.html The M$ foot gets another dose of lead. Doc From spc at conman.org Mon Apr 1 16:14:32 2002 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:50 2005 Subject: The Future End of Classic Computing In-Reply-To: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E260BCE@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> from "Christopher Smith" at Apr 01, 2002 01:55:47 PM Message-ID: <200204012214.RAA32275@conman.org> It was thus said that the Great Christopher Smith once stated: > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Douglas H. Quebbeman [mailto:dquebbeman@acm.org] > > > Adam Schiff, another congressman from California, is proposing > > a similiar law. Adam has stated that he doesn't expect the law to > > pass, but that its sole purpose is to gain leverage against the > > high-tech industry regarding the copyright issue and in favor of > > the entertainments industry. > > > In other words, they we'll all be sufficiently scared that > > we'll finally > > give up some ground in the copyright issue. What ground is left > > to give up? They've already lengthened the terms of protection > > when they should have been shortening them. > > What issue is there? If they don't like copyright as it was > originally defined, fine. Abolish it. That's fair, and everyone's > still on equal ground. :) Not quite so easy here in the States. From the Constitution of the United States, Article 1, Section 8: To promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries; From this derives copyright and patent law (even Fair Use is not defined in the Constitution---that comes from the 1976 Copyright Act when the common practice of fair use was put into law). To abolish copyright, you would need to amend the Constitution. For anyone wanting to abolish copyright it would behoove them study the results obtained in France after the French Revolution when copyright law was abolished. > I think Mr. Schiff ought to be required to reimburse the government > for the salaries (plus usage of buildings, etc) of all the people > whose time he wastes with his bill. That ought to be enough to spend > all the money that some companies are paying him for it, plus his own > salary, and make him get a job at McDonalds to make ends meet. I think you're being kind. -spc (He and the Honorable Hollings (cough) should be tossed out and not allowed to hold public office for at least 12 years ... ) From jhellige at earthlink.net Mon Apr 1 16:27:07 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:50 2005 Subject: Unix disk images and archiving In-Reply-To: <20020401143833.GA711849@uiuc.edu> References: <200203271826.AA21034@proxima.ucsd.edu.UCSD.EDU> <20020401143833.GA711849@uiuc.edu> Message-ID: Well it worked....I changed the fstab file on the hard disk that I had copied NextStep 2.0 onto, off of the copy I had made to the Pinnacle MO, and it booted right up! I also put the '030 mainboard back into the 2nd Cube and booted it off of the NS 2.0 hard disk install and it worked as well. Even the NeXT 'Guided Tour' was kind of interesting. Now I'm off to start copying the other distro disks to the Pinnacle MO. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Mon Apr 1 16:35:39 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:50 2005 Subject: PCB vs perfboard construction economics (was Re: "New" PDP-8) In-Reply-To: <3CA62537.16607545@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <20020401223539.47316.qmail@web20105.mail.yahoo.com> --- Ben Franchuk wrote: > ...The board will be about 8" x 7" and $175 canadian for two > prototype boards. Wire wrap sockets/wire/protoboard would cost me $100... While I can recommend a real PCB if the setup costs and the per-sq-in costs are not killing you (price an Omnibus or Unibus-sized 4-layer board, complete with gold fingers!), personally, my WW overhead isn't terrible: I rescued all the prototype hardware from my former employer when they went bust - I probably have three lifetimes worth of WW sockets. When I do a project, the only part I have to spend money on is the wire. My last project is a good case-study for expense vs. time. I wanted to replicate a scoreboard from a Dragon's Lair/Space Ace. I tried to find one on ePay, but they only come up occasionally (every couple of months). I decided to build one. I started with a couple of digital pictures, a parts list and a schematic. Since the board was approx 6"x9", it would have been somewhat expensive for a commercially-made PCB. There are still plenty of surplus units out there that sell used for under $50 when they are available, so it would be cheaper to wait for a sale than to have a professional PCB created unless the new PCB added value somehow. I had the blue perfboard (from when the MicroCenter got rid of all of their prototyping hardware at 80% off list!), the wire and the discrete components. I had to purchase the LEDs ($0.65 each) and the driver chips (a few bucks each). Total out-of-pocket expense was <$25. I probably pulled about $15-$20-worth of supplies out of my parts bins. Construction took place over several evenings, watching the sci-fi channel, tacking down point-to-point connections (didn't have the vertical clearance for socketing the LEDs). I'm pleased that it worked the first time! - pictures at http://penguincentral.com/retrocomputing/retrogaming/ under the "LED Scoreboard" link. Mostly, it's pictures of the glow of the LEDs, but there's one out-of-focus, flash-burned picture of the perfboard and yellow wire in there (the Apple QT150 has about a 24" min focal distance without the strap-on lens). The upshot was that if this were being done for anyone but me personally, it would have been an economic disaster. Nobody would have paid me a reasonable amount for that much work - it would have been much cheaper to go to an arcade service company and *buy* a used scoreboard than spend 10+ hours wiring up a board. It would have been much cheaper than that to wait out the next wave of offerings on eBay (which I accidentally did - the project took so long to complete that I _did_ pick a real one up for around $30, after I was 95% finished with my replica. The good news is that it made a nice functional benchmark to prove that mine worked). So I chose to trade my time for semi-instant gratification. I would have loved to have done a PCB, but I chose not to spend the time with layout tape and a blank board, and I chose not to pay to register a demo-ware layout package so I could make a 6"x9" board. If I were to make the new PDP-8 design that kicked off this whole thread, I'm not sure if I'd get professional boards (~$200/set, in small quantities, according to the designer, for a couple of 4-layer boards) or I'd point-to-point it. In terms of $$$/hour, even $200 for a board set is cheap. In terms of a discretionary hobby, $200 is a lot to divert from other projects when I already _have_ a working PDP-8. With that kind of money, I could start trolling for a Qbus SCSI controller! Back to the initial topic, though, I'd love to get a good buy on a dozen or so spools of kynar-coated wire. I'd prefer an assortment of colors, but I'd take it in whatever I could get - yellow, red, white... Anyone have a lead on any surplus places that have it for a few bucks a spool? -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover http://greetings.yahoo.com/ From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Mon Apr 1 16:39:53 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:50 2005 Subject: WW fixtures (was Re: "New" PDP-8) In-Reply-To: <3CA61CB6.3070300@dragonsweb.org> Message-ID: <20020401223953.75002.qmail@web20101.mail.yahoo.com> > Loboyko Steve wrote: > WW sockets are getting more expensive. I won't use > anything but machine tooled pin sockets, which are > even more expensive. Buf going nuts and wasting your > precious free time over a flaky socket is really, > really expensive. I, too, can recommend only going with machined-pin sockets; anything less isn't worth the hassle of trying to chase down phantom problems. This goes for soldered designs as well as WW. OTOH, it's an easy choice for me since I alread have several hundred/few thousand of them. I don't ever expect to actually *pay* for one, unless I need some kind of BGA or FPGA or other SMT adapter. For DIP stuff, I'm set for life! -ethan -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover http://greetings.yahoo.com/ From csmith at amdocs.com Mon Apr 1 16:41:27 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:50 2005 Subject: The Future End of Classic Computing Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E260BD8@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner [mailto:spc@conman.org] > > What issue is there? If they don't like copyright as it was > > originally defined, fine. Abolish it. That's fair, and everyone's > > still on equal ground. :) > Not quite so easy here in the States. From the > Constitution of the United > States, Article 1, Section 8: I was basically being sarcastic. The point being that it's ridiculous for them to make demands to the effect that copyright be extended into eternity, just as it would be for somebody to demand that it be abolished completely. Either way, the purpose of copyright is defeated. :) > > I think Mr. Schiff ought to be required to reimburse the government > > for the salaries (plus usage of buildings, etc) of all the people > > whose time he wastes with his bill. That ought to be > enough to spend > > all the money that some companies are paying him for it, > plus his own > > salary, and make him get a job at McDonalds to make ends meet. > I think you're being kind. Probably. > -spc (He and the Honorable Hollings (cough) should be > tossed out and > not allowed to hold public office for at least 12 years ... ) I imagine lifetime would be more appropriate. They've shown -- beyond any doubt, as far as I can see -- that they haven't got the character required to perform the duties which public office would require of them. Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From doc at mdrconsult.com Mon Apr 1 16:52:16 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:50 2005 Subject: Unix disk images and archiving In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 1 Apr 2002, Jeff Hellige wrote: > Well it worked....I changed the fstab file on the hard disk > that I had copied NextStep 2.0 onto, off of the copy I had made to > the Pinnacle MO, and it booted right up! I also put the '030 > mainboard back into the 2nd Cube and booted it off of the NS 2.0 hard > disk install and it worked as well. Even the NeXT 'Guided Tour' was > kind of interesting. Now I'm off to start copying the other distro > disks to the Pinnacle MO. Most excellent! Congratulations. Doc From tothwolf at concentric.net Mon Apr 1 16:56:28 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:50 2005 Subject: Soldering and other skills (was Re: QL-Quality (Was: ZX-81 Question)) In-Reply-To: <3CA7F092.3070808@internet1.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 1 Apr 2002, Chad Fernandez wrote: > How much lead does solder dor electronics contain? I thought only > solder for pipes contained lead? I think you have it backward. Solder for water pipes is supposed to be lead free (I believe there are strict laws regulating that). Solder for non-water pipes can still use lead based solders. Electronics solder can be one of many different alloys, most consisting of between 40% and 60% lead, the remaining component, tin. Generic solder sold for electronics today is usually a 60/40 (tin/lead) alloy. Most of the solder used in the 1960s was a 50/50 alloy. Surface mount and other exotic solder alloys made today also contain 2% to 5% silver. IIRC, the tin content is also bad for health. I too would be interested in knowing what the chemical content of the burning flux is. Of course, some of the solvents and cleaners also used for electronics work are probably worse than soldering. I do remember having muscle cramps in my fingers when my workload of soldering work would decrease. I tended to blame muscle conditioning, but now I think it may have been all the lead/tin I was handling. -Toth From tothwolf at concentric.net Mon Apr 1 16:59:53 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:50 2005 Subject: Soldering and other skills (was Re: QL-Quality (Was: ZX-81 Question)) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 1 Apr 2002, Sridhar the POWERful wrote: > On Mon, 1 Apr 2002, Chad Fernandez wrote: > > > Yes, I think your right. Still, I didn't realize that it contained such > > a high percentage of lead. Me thinks, I'll be more carefull while > > handleing it in the future. Lead is absorbed through the skin if I'm > > not mistaken. > > Even handling cool boards, pricking yourself with solder points, can be > dangerous, if you do it enough. The "light touch" when handling such boards is learned by experience ;) I imagine most anyone who has learned how to sort though a box of computer boards without injury knows exactly what I'm talking about... -Toth From tothwolf at concentric.net Mon Apr 1 17:05:57 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:50 2005 Subject: Soldering and other skills (was Re: QL-Quality (Was: ZX-81 Question)) In-Reply-To: <15528.46576.845805.877598@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 1 Apr 2002, Dave McGuire wrote: > Oh, yuck, I didn't know that...I think I'll invest in one of those > filtered blowers. A surplus 120VAC muffin fan (with finger guards!) blowing away from the work area is an inexpensive solution for those that can't afford a fume extractor. -Toth From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Mon Apr 1 17:07:36 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:50 2005 Subject: "New" PDP-8 In-Reply-To: <20020330180112.21387.qmail@web11802.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20020401230736.94866.qmail@web20102.mail.yahoo.com> --- Loboyko Steve wrote: > ...A drag about the DECmate board was that its a multilayer > board, and in spite of my best desoldering efforts, > the chips are trimmed short and you can't really use > many parts from it other than the socketed BTS6120 and > a few EPROMS. What else would be "useful" from a DECmate board? I agree about the difficulty of removing chips from multi-layer boards. Depending on the exact nature of the power/ground pins/planes, it can take a lot of heat to remove the chips. Usually, you pick either the chip or the board as what you want to survive and you sacrifice one for the other (it's possible to do both, but it's a *lot* more work, and sometimes you still ruin one or the other or both). I recently pulled a custom 20-pin DEC chip from a DWBUA to install in another DWBUA in an attempt to get one working board. First, I had to remove the dead chip from the recipient board - that took 30 minutes to get the power/ground pins out and the thru-holes clean; then I had to remove the chip from the other board without destroying the chip - another 30 minutes. It's easier with the "right" tools... all I had was a Weller temp-controlled soldering station, solder, solder wick and a solder sucker. With about a $500 desoldering station, it probably would have taken under 10 minutes. But, again, I'm curious what you would save from the DM board if you could. Personally, if I ever build Bob's design, I'll probably crack open a DM (I have one I, one II and one III) and borrow the CPU chip. EPROMs I have aplenty, as well as PALs, GALs and TTL "popcorn" parts. I can't imagine what I'd want to pull from the donor system except for the CPU chip itself. That way, I could put it back anytime I wished. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover http://greetings.yahoo.com/ From jhellige at earthlink.net Mon Apr 1 17:08:25 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:50 2005 Subject: The Future End of Classic Computing In-Reply-To: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E260BD8@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> References: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E260BD8@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> Message-ID: >I was basically being sarcastic. The point being that it's ridiculous >for them to make demands to the effect that copyright be extended into >eternity, just as it would be for somebody to demand that it be >abolished completely. Either way, the purpose of copyright is defeated. Have to love that Disney, one of the ones constantly pushing to have it's characters protected for longer and longer periods, has also been one to make quite a bit of money off of other's work that has fallen into the public domain, such as Tom Sawyer and others. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Mon Apr 1 17:14:23 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:50 2005 Subject: The Future End of Classic Computing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020401181423.0085c100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> This idiodic bill bill sounds like a sure fire way to kill the electronics industry in the US. I wonder who Fritz Hollings really works for, the Taliban? In any event, it will NEVER happen in the US, we already smuggle in huge quantities of drugs, guns, booze, parrots and everything else that the US government attempts to ban so I guess we may have to add computers to the list next. joe At 11:52 AM 3/29/02 -0500, you wrote: >The End of Classic Computing, and in fact, the end >of Computing as a hobby for almost all of us, is on >the table in the U.S. Congress in the form of The >Consumer Broadband and Digital Television Promotion >Act (CBDTPA). This insidious bill would strike at >the very heart of this community, the software that >keeps our ClassicComputers running, unless we or >someone incorporates anti-pirating measures. > >Now, if that sounded inflammatory, it should. It's >not quite accurate either. The bill will cover only >software created from the time of the bill's passage >and on into the future. The stuff we play with now >would therefore be exempt. > >There appears to be a loophole for stuff you do that >you never distribute. There also appears to be a loophole >for computers that do not contain microprocessors. > >But there would be a horizon coming soon. If the bill >is passed, computers and software being developed now, >once 10 years old, might be on-topic, but you'd be >breaking federal law to share software. > >Sponsored by someone who must surely be certifiably >insane, one Senator Fritz Hollings of South Carolina, >if you want more information, see: > >http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,51274,00.html > >This will require lots of work to defeat, I think, as >the politicians have bought into the fantasy that a >pirated copy of something conctitutes a lost sale. > >A true emperor's fine new clothes scneario... > >Regards, >-dq > >-- >-Douglas Hurst Quebbeman (dougq@iglou.com) [Call me "Doug"] >"The large print giveth, and the small print taketh away." -Tom Waits > > > From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Mon Apr 1 17:09:55 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:50 2005 Subject: Soldering and other skills (was Re: QL-Quality (Was: ZX-81 Question)) In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.20020401155711.00ea2e60@pop1.epm.net.co> Message-ID: <20020401230955.95240.qmail@web20102.mail.yahoo.com> --- Carlos Murillo wrote: > At 01:08 PM 4/1/02 +0100, you wrote: > >Resin flux is a known carcinogen, so don't breathe the fumes. > > Darn! that too? Those fumes have a habit of condensing on my > eyeglasses, so I am probably inhaling. Maybe you should take soldering lessons from Bill Clinton? -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover http://greetings.yahoo.com/ From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Apr 1 17:15:28 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:50 2005 Subject: WW fixtures (was Re: "New" PDP-8) In-Reply-To: <20020401223953.75002.qmail@web20101.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Apr 1, 2 02:39:53 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1016 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020402/5da751a0/attachment.ksh From broth at heathers.stdio.com Mon Apr 1 18:18:35 2002 From: broth at heathers.stdio.com (Brian Roth) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:50 2005 Subject: Ultrix root password Message-ID: <20020401231948.7224827F4A8@mail.wzrd.com> I snagged a PDP11/53 and Two MicroVAX II's today at the salvage yard. $5 a piece. Doesn't happen very often but feels good when it does. The MV's have Ultrix on them and boot fine BUT..... Is there an easy way to bust the root password for Ultrix on the console? Thanks, Brian. From tothwolf at concentric.net Mon Apr 1 17:21:54 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:51 2005 Subject: PCB vs perfboard construction economics (was Re: "New" PDP-8) In-Reply-To: <20020401223539.47316.qmail@web20105.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 1 Apr 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote: > Anyone have a lead on any surplus places that have it for a few bucks > a spool? I've got a lead on teflon insulated #24 wire. It's a silver plated solid copper wire with black teflon insulation on 100ft spools. IIRC, the date of manufacture was in the 1960s. The stuff is a bitch to strip, but you can't melt it with a soldering iron ;) If anyone needs some of this stuff, let me know and I'll pick it up. I have a few spools, but I could get another 50 or 60 spools if the shop still has them. -Toth From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Mon Apr 1 17:34:25 2002 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:51 2005 Subject: "New" PDP-8 Message-ID: <005601c1d9d7$12922c10$7ded9a8d@ajp166> From: Ethan Dicks >What else would be "useful" from a DECmate board? I agree about Depends on if it's a DMII or DMIII. The dmII had less integration so the 6120, eproms and likely a 6121 plus UARTs are available. The DMIII it will be the 6120 and maybe a 6121 plus 2882 and the eproms, though I'm less sure as it's been a long time since I've had to open one. Allison From dquebbeman at acm.org Mon Apr 1 17:44:10 2002 From: dquebbeman at acm.org (Douglas H. Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:51 2005 Subject: The Future End of Classic Computing Message-ID: <000501c1d9d7$23569f40$55efffcc@Shadow> > This idiodic bill bill sounds like a sure fire way to > kill the electronics industry in the US. I wonder who Fritz > Hollings really works for, the Taliban? In any event, it > will NEVER happen in the US, we already smuggle in huge > quantities of drugs, gun s, booze, parrots and everything > else that the US government attempts to ban so I guess we may > have to add computers to the list next. Doc's response seems to be typical- it sounds so outrageous that there's no way it could happen. However, I nonetheless urge everyone to write their U.S. representative and Senator and inform them that this and any similar legislation is unacceptable to you. In order to keep your message short, I suggest that you not elucidate the many reasons why it's bad, but instead offer to do so in a follow-up correspondance. Regards, -doug q From dquebbeman at acm.org Mon Apr 1 17:52:52 2002 From: dquebbeman at acm.org (Douglas H. Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:51 2005 Subject: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New" PDP-8)) Message-ID: <000b01c1d9d8$5a0eb080$55efffcc@Shadow> > > > Loboyko Steve wrote: > > > WW sockets are getting more expensive. I won't use > > > anything but machine tooled pin sockets, which are > > > even more expensive. Buf going nuts and wasting your > > > precious free time over a flaky socket is really, > > > really expensive. > > > > I, too, can recommend only going with machined-pin sockets; anything less > > isn't worth the hassle of trying to chase down phantom problems. This > > goes for soldered designs as well as WW. > > I'll 'third' it... > > I will use nothing but turned-pin sockets (that's what they're called in > the UK) now. I once spent most of a day tracking down a fault that was > caused by a flaky contact on a folded-metal type of socket. Never again. > I've got more enjoyable things to do... Speaking of machined parts versus something else... Anyone notice how commodity PCs have screws that have clearly been *cast* onstead of *turned/Machined*? Everytime you thread one into a hole, you generate a nice supply of metal shavings. Not good. To get back on topic, when did this trend start? The IBM PC, PC/XT, and PC/AT used machined/turned fasteners. Lots of classic non-consumer hardware used various "captive mechanisms" instead of plain old screws and bolts. And how about sharp edges inside a chassis? Older hardware tends to have spent a little time in the hands of a whitesmith, who added lots of finishing detail like smooth edges that don't cut. -dq From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Mon Apr 1 17:55:25 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:51 2005 Subject: PCB vs perfboard construction economics (was Re: "New" PDP-8) References: <20020401223539.47316.qmail@web20105.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3CA8F36D.8FBE1623@jetnet.ab.ca> Ethan Dicks wrote: > While I can recommend a real PCB if the setup costs and the per-sq-in > costs are not killing you (price an Omnibus or Unibus-sized 4-layer board, > complete with gold fingers!), personally, my WW overhead isn't terrible: > I rescued all the prototype hardware from my former employer when they > went bust - I probably have three lifetimes worth of WW sockets. When > I do a project, the only part I have to spend money on is the wire. Out here the only parts store is Radio Shack or wait 6 months to get to a larger city. Thus mail order and internet shopping works for me. With wire wrap I would spend too much time hunting for bad wires/connections or paying $$$ for parts. A PCB is a simple upload of my gerber and drill files. > My last project is a good case-study for expense vs. time. I wanted to > replicate a scoreboard from a Dragon's Lair/Space Ace. I tried to find > one on ePay, but they only come up occasionally (every couple of months). > I decided to build one. I started with a couple of digital pictures, > a parts list and a schematic. Since the board was approx 6"x9", it > would have been somewhat expensive for a commercially-made PCB. There > are still plenty of surplus units out there that sell used for under $50 > when they are available, so it would be cheaper to wait for a sale than > to have a professional PCB created unless the new PCB added value somehow. > > I had the blue perfboard (from when the MicroCenter got rid of all of their > prototyping hardware at 80% off list!), the wire and the discrete > components. I had to purchase the LEDs ($0.65 each) and the driver chips > (a few bucks each). Total out-of-pocket expense was <$25. I probably > pulled about $15-$20-worth of supplies out of my parts bins. > > Construction took place over several evenings, watching the sci-fi channel, > tacking down point-to-point connections (didn't have the vertical > clearance for socketing the LEDs). I'm pleased that it worked the first > time! - pictures at http://penguincentral.com/retrocomputing/retrogaming/ > under the "LED Scoreboard" link. Mostly, it's pictures of the glow of > the LEDs, but there's one out-of-focus, flash-burned picture of the > perfboard and yellow wire in there (the Apple QT150 has about a 24" min > focal distance without the strap-on lens). nice (see ps at bottom) > The upshot was that if this were being done for anyone but me personally, > it would have been an economic disaster. Nobody would have paid me a > reasonable amount for that much work - it would have been much cheaper > to go to an arcade service company and *buy* a used scoreboard than spend > 10+ hours wiring up a board. It would have been much cheaper than that > to wait out the next wave of offerings on eBay (which I accidentally did - > the project took so long to complete that I _did_ pick a real one up for > around $30, after I was 95% finished with my replica. The good news is > that it made a nice functional benchmark to prove that mine worked). > > So I chose to trade my time for semi-instant gratification. I would > have loved to have done a PCB, but I chose not to spend the time with > layout tape and a blank board, and I chose not to pay to register a > demo-ware layout package so I could make a 6"x9" board. More like 3" x 4". Easytrax (dos) is still out there and runs fine (and free) if you don't need autorouting. > If I were to > make the new PDP-8 design that kicked off this whole thread, I'm not > sure if I'd get professional boards (~$200/set, in small quantities, > according to the designer, for a couple of 4-layer boards) or I'd > point-to-point it. Is 4 layer boards really needed? I like the PDP-8 but am unhappy that a 12/24 cpu never hit the monolithic chip market. Now with a FPGA I have a cpu design that is a 'what if' computer that really could have replaced the IBM PC at that time. ( Early 1980's ) > In terms of $$$/hour, even $200 for a board set > is cheap. In terms of a discretionary hobby, $200 is a lot to divert > from other projects when I already _have_ a working PDP-8. With that > kind of money, I could start trolling for a Qbus SCSI controller! Well I don't but remember with out the proper I/O a pdp-8 is NO FUN. While I can run a emulator 100x of times faster than the real thing it is not the same with out a TTY chugging away on paper tape. > Back to the initial topic, though, I'd love to get a good buy on a dozen or > so spools of kynar-coated wire. I'd prefer an assortment of colors, but > I'd take it in whatever I could get - yellow, red, white... > > Anyone have a lead on any surplus places that have it for a few bucks > a spool? While B.G.Micro does NOT have wire wrap wire it does have a few interesting odds and ends and some of the more older chips out like 16k dram/floppy disk controlers/8 bit cpu's. www.bgmicro.com PS. Just after I finished writing this I looked up the scoreboard and noticed you use BG micro already. -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Mon Apr 1 17:52:39 2002 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:51 2005 Subject: Ultrix root password Message-ID: <006701c1d9d9$2d797630$7ded9a8d@ajp166> From: Brian Roth >The MV's have Ultrix on them and boot fine BUT..... > > >Is there an easy way to bust the root password for Ultrix on the console? Yes. Boot to non-timesharing then use ED (sorry no other choice usually) to edit passwd file. set the Root user password to NULL (no characters). boot to timeshare level and then log in as root with no password. My ultrix manuals are burried or I'd give more detail. Allison From jpero at sympatico.ca Mon Apr 1 13:33:55 2002 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:51 2005 Subject: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New" PDP-8)) In-Reply-To: <000b01c1d9d8$5a0eb080$55efffcc@Shadow> Message-ID: <20020402003216.BBNS21410.tomts14-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > Speaking of machined parts versus something else... > > Anyone notice how commodity PCs have screws that have clearly > been *cast* onstead of *turned/Machined*? Everytime you thread > one into a hole, you generate a nice supply of metal shavings. > > Not good. Just bad bag of that screws. Toss it and buy bag of decent screws. If find a peecee screw that is still chewing or "seizing up" touch bit of oil to the thread. Fixed for good. This happens because of poor lubing or nothing or low quality steel in production of those crappy fasteners. Those that makes shavings is because of cracks in the thread tips. Almost all screws, bolts are smashed on one end of cut rods to make heads slots, philips, hex, torx etc, rolled in thread dies to form threads. Very few uses true machined fasteners. Quality smooshed on heads and rolled fasteners are *stronger* because of compressed grain. Machining process cuts into this grain and introduces crack stress beause of too sharp corners. I know because machined fasteners were used frequently in clocks and watches. Yes I did break machined screws for any reason not just from over-tightening. Machined are very sharp corners, ground-look. Rolled and squished heads looks well that, smooth or dull and look at ends of these fasteners is convex. > To get back on topic, when did this trend start? The IBM PC, > PC/XT, and PC/AT used machined/turned fasteners. Lots of classic > non-consumer hardware used various "captive mechanisms" instead > of plain old screws and bolts. Actually not. IBM used mass-produced rolled screws of good quality and early machines did use mass-produced fasteners that were good quality. > And how about sharp edges inside a chassis? Older hardware tends > to have spent a little time in the hands of a whitesmith, who > added lots of finishing detail like smooth edges that don't cut. > > -dq Yes, *can* still buy decent peecee cases made with rolled edges. Acer is one, Antec is another so on. Aluminum cases is making slow coming back. I know classic 'puters were made in large numbers with aluminum cases early days. Cheers, Wizard From davebarnes at adelphia.net Mon Apr 1 18:37:13 2002 From: davebarnes at adelphia.net (David Barnes) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:51 2005 Subject: Ultrix root password References: <20020401231948.7224827F4A8@mail.wzrd.com> Message-ID: <3CA8FD39.E2D93BDD@adelphia.net> yes and no... depends upon what version is installed... do you know what ver it is.. ?? Brian Roth wrote: > I snagged a PDP11/53 and Two MicroVAX II's today at the salvage yard. $5 a > piece. Doesn't happen very often but feels good when it does. > > The MV's have Ultrix on them and boot fine BUT..... > > Is there an easy way to bust the root password for Ultrix on the console? > > Thanks, > Brian. -- David Barnes davebarnes@adelphia.net OpenVMS , Tru64, Netbsd, Linux guru and collector of DEC equipment From doc at mdrconsult.com Mon Apr 1 18:52:14 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:51 2005 Subject: The Future End of Classic Computing In-Reply-To: <000501c1d9d7$23569f40$55efffcc@Shadow> Message-ID: On Mon, 1 Apr 2002, Douglas H. Quebbeman wrote: > Doc's response seems to be typical- it sounds so outrageous > that there's no way it could happen. Excuse me? My response was that if we don't mobilize en masse, and quickly, it _will_ happen. The Digital Millenium Copyright Act was no less ridiculous, and is now Federal law. In the many times that law has been invoked, not one case has involved the mass distribution pirates its proponents claimed to target. Most have been people like Dmitri Slyarov, who simply dared to speak out, and to demonstrate that ownership of an idea is moot. The Uniform Computer Information Transaction Act - UCITA bill - is even more ludicrous, and is now law in two states. A roaring grass-roots campaign against UCITA was credited with stopping it in Texas. All three bills, proposed or passed, have in common that they are unenforceable, that they target and penalize the consumer in favor of specialized corporate interests, that they are blatantly unconstitutional in spirit if not in their letters, and that most of their opponents do not take them seriously enough to act. The other thing these bills all have in common is that the special interest groups who buy their introduction into our legislative system will continue to pay for their reintroduction until their puppets are censured in a way that matters. In cash, and in criminal prosecution. Douglas, I expect that the mis-attribution was a benign mistake, so I want to make it clear that I'm not jumping down your throat. But I WILL NOT be misunderstood in this. The very possibility of a travesty like the CBDTPA becoming the law of the land is my worst nightmare come to life. It has nothing to do with my computers, my music recordings, or my movies. It has everything to do with the idea that any coalition with enough cash and lawyers can today buy any oppression of the people that they desire, with impunity, and without any need to even disguise their actions. The contemplation of that truth literally moves me to tears, and to a despair that borders on rage. Doc From geoff at pkworks.com Mon Apr 1 19:10:04 2002 From: geoff at pkworks.com (Geoffrey G. Rochat) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:51 2005 Subject: IBM 1620 Message-ID: <001e01c1d9e3$200e5ba0$1277f4d0@dialup> -----Original Message----- From: Marvin Johnston To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Date: Monday, April 01, 2002 5:38 PM Subject: IBM 1620 > >Take a look at Yahoo vintage auctions to find the "IBM 1620 CENTRAL >PROCESSING UNIT, MANUAL 1964" at >http://page.auctions.shopping.yahoo.com/auction/63778516?aucview=0x10 > >The current price with no bidders is $3.50. Gee, thanks for the spam. Save your money and download it for free from: http://www.spies.com/~aek/pdf/ibm/A26-4500-2_1620ref_Jul61.pdf From doc at mdrconsult.com Mon Apr 1 19:02:41 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:51 2005 Subject: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New" PDP-8)) In-Reply-To: <000b01c1d9d8$5a0eb080$55efffcc@Shadow> Message-ID: On Mon, 1 Apr 2002, Douglas H. Quebbeman wrote: > And how about sharp edges inside a chassis? Older hardware tends > to have spent a little time in the hands of a whitesmith, who > added lots of finishing detail like smooth edges that don't cut. You can still buy such chassis, probably as relatively cheaply as you did then. Fry's Electronics, MicroChip computers, and a couple of other vendors here sell stainless or aluminum (and now aluminum/plexiglass) cases that are beautiful, and beautifully finished, to the tune of $300 to $500 US. That's without PSU. I would really love to have several. Or, conversely, I used the drive cages and rear bulkhead from an XT case to design and have built a walnut case for a client a couple of years ago. Complete with 1/8" veneers for the CD-ROM bezel, tray, and button. Used a "faceless" floppy out of a Compaq. That may have been the quietest PC I ever worked on. Doc From root at diablonet.net Mon Apr 1 19:12:31 2002 From: root at diablonet.net (Sean Caron) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:51 2005 Subject: Soldering and other skills Message-ID: <3CA90562.445FC7E2@diablonet.net> Hi there! I've been following the thread kind of loosely on the digest, and although I really have no way of knowing how much time you're spending around a soldering iron, I would strongly guess that you have nothing to worry about from even relatively frequent soldering as long as you're not doing something wierd like soldering in a small closet with the door closed for hours on end every day or melting down spools and huffing them... :) Solder's been around for quite a while, and I'm sure if there was some sort of real health risk, it would have been common knowledge by now. I know tons of people including my father, uncles, and old co-workers who have spent, cumulatively, months and months behind soldering irons in labs and shops, and I believe they are all still entirely sane! Kind regards, Sean -- Sean Caron http://www.diablonet.net scaron@engin.umich.edu root@diablonet.net From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Apr 1 19:30:38 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:51 2005 Subject: Soldering and other skills In-Reply-To: <3CA90562.445FC7E2@diablonet.net> Message-ID: Today: > Solder's been around for quite a while, and I'm sure if there was > some sort of real health risk, it would have been common knowledge > by now. 1960: "Asbestos been around for quite a while, and I'm sure if there was some sort of real health risk, it would have been common knowledge by now." From mcguire at neurotica.com Mon Apr 1 19:48:26 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:51 2005 Subject: Soldering and other skills In-Reply-To: Re: Soldering and other skills (Sean Caron) References: <3CA90562.445FC7E2@diablonet.net> Message-ID: <15529.3562.45766.695729@phaduka.neurotica.com> On April 1, Sean Caron wrote: > I've been following the thread kind of loosely on the digest, and > although I really have no way of knowing how much time you're > spending around a soldering iron, I would strongly guess that you > have nothing to worry about from even relatively frequent soldering > as long as you're not doing something wierd like soldering in a > small closet with the door closed for hours on end every day or > melting down spools and huffing them... :) You mean that's not safe? Uh-oh. -Dave -- Dave McGuire "...it's leaving me this unpleasant, St. Petersburg, FL damp feeling on my shorts..." -Sridhar From dquebbeman at acm.org Mon Apr 1 19:48:48 2002 From: dquebbeman at acm.org (Douglas H. Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:51 2005 Subject: "Re: The Future End of Classic Computing Message-ID: <001601c1d9e8$95506ac0$55efffcc@Shadow> > On Mon, 1 Apr 2002, Douglas H. Quebbeman wrote: > > > Doc's response seems to be typical- it sounds so outrageous > > that there's no way it could happen. > > Excuse me? My response was that if we don't mobilize en masse, and > quickly, it _will_ happen. Doc, I have a fever, and the unsend key isn't working. Sorry! It was Joe Rigdon's comment to which I was replying... > The Digital Millenium Copyright Act was no less ridiculous, and is now > Federal law. In the many times that law has been invoked, not one case > has involved the mass distribution pirates its proponents claimed to > target. Most have been people like Dmitri Slyarov, who simply dared to > speak out, and to demonstrate that ownership of an idea is moot. Agreed... now if they'd grabbed Martha Stewart, there'd be some action. > The Uniform Computer Information Transaction Act - UCITA bill - is > even more ludicrous, and is now law in two states. A roaring > grass-roots campaign against UCITA was credited with stopping it in > Texas. Whew! > All three bills, proposed or passed, have in common that they are > unenforceable, that they target and penalize the consumer in favor of > specialized corporate interests, that they are blatantly > unconstitutional in spirit if not in their letters, and that most of > their opponents do not take them seriously enough to act. > > The other thing these bills all have in common is that the special > interest groups who buy their introduction into our legislative system > will continue to pay for their reintroduction until their puppets are > censured in a way that matters. In cash, and in criminal prosecution. Around here, we'd tar, feather, then run them out of town on a rail. > Douglas, I expect that the mis-attribution was a benign mistake, so I > want to make it clear that I'm not jumping down your throat. Ok! But I wasn't putting Joe down, either... only pointing out that we're preachin' to the choir here, folks... > But I WILL NOT be misunderstood in this. The very possibility of a > travesty like the CBDTPA becoming the law of the land is my worst > nightmare come to life. It has nothing to do with my computers, > my music recordings, or my movies. It has everything to do with the > idea that any coalition with enough cash and lawyers can today buy > any oppression of the people that they desire, with impunity, and > without any need to even disguise their actions. This is the Tyranny of the Majority that Publius warned us of. Again, sorry, I spent too much time in the mold den this weekend recovering old moldy Prime manuals. That deadly black mold you hear about... -dq From marvin at rain.org Mon Apr 1 19:51:00 2002 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:51 2005 Subject: IBM 1620 References: <001e01c1d9e3$200e5ba0$1277f4d0@dialup> Message-ID: <3CA90E84.B0CB96E8@rain.org> "Geoffrey G. Rochat" wrote: > > > > >Take a look at Yahoo vintage auctions to find the "IBM 1620 CENTRAL > >PROCESSING UNIT, MANUAL 1964" at > >http://page.auctions.shopping.yahoo.com/auction/63778516?aucview=0x10 > > > >The current price with no bidders is $3.50. > > Gee, thanks for the spam. Save your money and download it for free > from: > > http://www.spies.com/~aek/pdf/ibm/A26-4500-2_1620ref_Jul61.pdf Take your flame bait elsewhere, sheesh. From zmerch at 30below.com Mon Apr 1 19:52:05 2002 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:51 2005 Subject: Soldering and other skills In-Reply-To: References: <3CA90562.445FC7E2@diablonet.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020401205205.0136f420@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) may have mentioned these words: >Today: >> Solder's been around for quite a while, and I'm sure if there was >> some sort of real health risk, it would have been common knowledge >> by now. My grandfather and I had discussed this about 7-8 years ago (before the heart attack & stroke that left him wheelchair bound) and we were discussing soldering, the dangers of lead, and whatnot, and he said something very similar: "I've been soldering my whole life, and it hasn't affected me one bit." To which I simply replied: "How do you know, grandpa?" He said "I feel fine, and I'm in pretty good shape for being [insert age here... don't remember exactly how old he was, but was right close to if not 80 years]." Where I countered: "One of the symptoms of long-term lead poisoning is short-term memory loss... and you've admitted that your short-term memory isn't what it used to be. How do you *know* that it isn't the lifetime of soldering & being around lead that hasn't caused it?" All I heard was: "Hrmmmph... Hmmmm... You know you're right? I never thought of it like that." >1960: >"Asbestos been around for quite a while, and I'm sure if there was >some sort of real health risk, it would have been common knowledge >by now." ... or DDT, or PCB, or... Granted, in another 20 years they'll probably prove *broccoli* can give you cancer... ;-) Laterz, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. From broth at heathers.stdio.com Mon Apr 1 20:55:28 2002 From: broth at heathers.stdio.com (Brian Roth) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:51 2005 Subject: Ultrix root password In-Reply-To: <006701c1d9d9$2d797630$7ded9a8d@ajp166> References: <006701c1d9d9$2d797630$7ded9a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <20020402015713.6E0A927ED0E@mail.wzrd.com> That did the trick..... Thank you for all that responded. Brian. On Monday 01 April 2002 06:52 pm, you wrote: > From: Brian Roth > > >The MV's have Ultrix on them and boot fine BUT..... > > > > > >Is there an easy way to bust the root password for Ultrix on the > > console? > > > Yes. > > Boot to non-timesharing then use ED (sorry no other choice usually) > to edit passwd file. set the Root user password to NULL (no characters). > boot to timeshare level and then log in as root with no password. > > My ultrix manuals are burried or I'd give more detail. > > Allison From jeff.kaneko at juno.com Mon Apr 1 21:52:48 2002 From: jeff.kaneko at juno.com (jeff.kaneko@juno.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:51 2005 Subject: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New" PDP-8)) Message-ID: <20020401.195249.-333301.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> On Mon, 1 Apr 2002 18:52:52 -0500 "Douglas H. Quebbeman" writes: >> Anyone notice how commodity PCs have screws that have clearly > been *cast* onstead of *turned/Machined*? Everytime you thread > one into a hole, you generate a nice supply of metal shavings. > > Not good. > > To get back on topic, when did this trend start? The IBM PC, > PC/XT, and PC/AT used machined/turned fasteners. Lots of classic > non-consumer hardware used various "captive mechanisms" instead > of plain old screws and bolts. > > And how about sharp edges inside a chassis? Older hardware tends > to have spent a little time in the hands of a whitesmith, who > added lots of finishing detail like smooth edges that don't cut. I think this started when we (the U.S.A.) began importing parts made in communist countries. Jeff ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. From doc at mdrconsult.com Mon Apr 1 20:14:26 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:51 2005 Subject: Soldering and other skills In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20020401205205.0136f420@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 1 Apr 2002, Roger Merchberger wrote: > Granted, in another 20 years they'll probably prove *broccoli* can give you > cancer... ;-) One can only hope. Doc From alexander.schreiber at informatik.tu-chemnitz.de Mon Apr 1 20:18:57 2002 From: alexander.schreiber at informatik.tu-chemnitz.de (Alexander Schreiber) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:51 2005 Subject: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New" PDP-8)) In-Reply-To: <000b01c1d9d8$5a0eb080$55efffcc@Shadow> References: <000b01c1d9d8$5a0eb080$55efffcc@Shadow> Message-ID: <20020402021857.GA650@mordor.angband.thangorodrim.de> On Mon, Apr 01, 2002 at 06:52:52PM -0500, Douglas H. Quebbeman wrote: > > Anyone notice how commodity PCs have screws that have clearly > been *cast* onstead of *turned/Machined*? Everytime you thread > one into a hole, you generate a nice supply of metal shavings. First rule: don't purchase cheap crap. Yes, you can get a x86 computer real cheap - but you get what you pay for. Look around, aim for quality and be prepared to shell out slighly more cash and you still can get rather good hardware. > Not good. ACK. > To get back on topic, when did this trend start? The IBM PC, > PC/XT, and PC/AT used machined/turned fasteners. Lots of classic > non-consumer hardware used various "captive mechanisms" instead > of plain old screws and bolts. Simple: market forces. Most customers want _really_ cheap stuff. After all the "fat" has been cut, the only way to reduce prices further is cutting back the quality. Most customers - looking only at the price tag are happy with this and don't understand why this is Bad (TM). Yet they still complain when (and if) the find out what crap they bought. There is an old japanese proverb: "I don't have enough money to purchase cheap things" - probably based on the fact that he who purchased cheap crap spends at least twice as much money - first for the cheap crap and then for some quality goods. > And how about sharp edges inside a chassis? Older hardware tends > to have spent a little time in the hands of a whitesmith, who > added lots of finishing detail like smooth edges that don't cut. You can get good cases for PC hardware - you just have to ask for the right manufacturer. I'm the happy owner of a Chieftec Miditower case and it's a pretty good one: _no_ sharp edges (all rounded out), comes pre-equipped for additional fans (just clip in the 80x80 cm fan), rail kits for the 5.25" drive bays ... very well thought out case. Rather heavy, even when empty - but it's a solid piece of work, not one of those flimsy, sharp-edged crap cases you get with the usual cheap deals. I found the price of a good, top-of-the-line X86 box to be decreasing only rather slowly over the years. It started for me with $3000 in 1994 and is now at approximately $2000. Yes, this is a SCSI-only system, normal, simple workstation configuration - nothing fancy (like special graphic cards for CAD), excluding the monitor (hand over another $1000). But I got 4 years of use out of my previous workstation machine (now doing duty as a systems testbed machine) - and the current one is intended to last quite some time too. Regards, Alex. -- We're gonna be body guards for teen rock-stars. Wouldn't the cause of freedom be better served if we killed them instead? -- Schlock from the ''Schlock Mercenary'' comic strip From doc at mdrconsult.com Mon Apr 1 20:25:42 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:51 2005 Subject: "Re: The Future End of Classic Computing In-Reply-To: <001601c1d9e8$95506ac0$55efffcc@Shadow> Message-ID: On Mon, 1 Apr 2002, Douglas H. Quebbeman wrote: > Doc, I have a fever, and the unsend key isn't working. Sorry! No problem. It wasn't really your comment that I take personally, it's the whole issue. If you'll debug that unsend key, I'll market it, and we'll both be able to buy our _own_ damn senators. > Again, sorry, I spent too much time in the mold den this weekend > recovering old moldy Prime manuals. That deadly black mold you > hear about... Argh. My granny says that eating a lot of parsley helps. That black mold is why we moved last October. I ate a lot of parsley, and I do think it helped keep my lungs freed up. Of course, YMMV. Doc From dquebbeman at acm.org Mon Apr 1 20:42:11 2002 From: dquebbeman at acm.org (Douglas H. Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:51 2005 Subject: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New" PDP-8)) Message-ID: <001c01c1d9f0$0addc8d0$55efffcc@Shadow> > > Anyone notice how commodity PCs have screws that have clearly > > been *cast* onstead of *turned/Machined*? Everytime you thread > > one into a hole, you generate a nice supply of metal shavings. > > > > Not good. > > Just bad bag of that screws. Toss it and buy bag of decent screws. I should have been more specific... the screws to which I am referring are those commonly provided for securing the cards in their slots. And they shed metal not only from the screw but from the rear of the chassis they thread into. In fact, everytime you insert one of these, it has a 50% chance of rethreading the hole. Look at them carefully... they have a noticable taper. That's *one* way to encourage them to stay put. -dq From vaxman at earthlink.net Mon Apr 1 20:47:52 2002 From: vaxman at earthlink.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:51 2005 Subject: Ultrix root password In-Reply-To: <20020401231948.7224827F4A8@mail.wzrd.com> Message-ID: Easiest way is to attach the drive to a comparable machine running a Ultrix that you know the password too. Mount it, edit /etc/passwd, umount it, and re-install. You can edit the raw sector containing the root password using console commands, then write it back out if you can fake MSCP... Or maybe B/1 DUA0 will work... It depends if the version of Ultrix is old enough to allow root boot without password prompt or not... Clint On Mon, 1 Apr 2002, Brian Roth wrote: > > I snagged a PDP11/53 and Two MicroVAX II's today at the salvage yard. $5 a > piece. Doesn't happen very often but feels good when it does. > > The MV's have Ultrix on them and boot fine BUT..... > > > Is there an easy way to bust the root password for Ultrix on the console? > > Thanks, > Brian. > From rhudson at cnonline.net Mon Apr 1 21:08:46 2002 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:51 2005 Subject: The Future End of Classic Computing References: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E260BCA@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> Message-ID: <3CA920BE.4090302@cnonline.net> Is there a simple boilerplate message I can send to my congress critters (not that it will do any good with Ms Fienstein or Boxer) to lodge my protest. I am against piracy, I think Napster has brought all this down upon us because of the few who refuse to see it for what it was, theft. I hope that, if this passes into law, Linux can get the copyright cop software included and get registered.... Oh, I suppose since I can re-compile Linux any time I want and can change the code however I like Linux will **never** get the stamp of government approval... From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Mon Apr 1 21:23:19 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:51 2005 Subject: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New" PDP-8)) References: <001c01c1d9f0$0addc8d0$55efffcc@Shadow> Message-ID: <3CA92427.82E32C66@jetnet.ab.ca> "Douglas H. Quebbeman" wrote: > In fact, everytime you insert one of these, it has a 50% > chance of rethreading the hole. > > Look at them carefully... they have a noticable taper. > > That's *one* way to encourage them to stay put. The real crime is the quality of duct tape is going down. :) Mind you with most of the new PC's you really don't have much new in accessory cards. Most I/O is now USB and video/Hard disks/CD-rom are all internal now. -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org Mon Apr 1 21:25:56 2002 From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:51 2005 Subject: What editions of the VAX Hardware Reference are there? Message-ID: <3CA924C4.80904@aurora.regenstrief.org> Hi, I am looking for VAX Hardware Reference for the VAX 11/780, 11/785, 86x0, the uVAX-II, and then the VAX 6000s. I suspect that's not all in one book. But, what revisions of the Hardware Reference are there anyway? I think the first edition is the 1978/1979, at least my VAX Architecture Handbook bears this date. I understand that the "Handbooks" were a 3-volume series, with volume 1 Architecture, vol 2 Harware and vol 3 Software (VMS). I assume that they threw out old models in more recent editions, right? Could we reconstruct which topics are described in which edition of the Hardware Handbook? One can't buy those any more, how does that influence the right to compile and share copies? I wonder if one could archive the Hardware handbooks by subject and that way compile a single volume with complete coverage of all VAXen. Besides, there is a mystical "Perepherial Handbook" to which I have seen reference once, but never any copy in bookstores, catalogues or on eBay. Did it ever exist? Was it volume 4 of the series? What items were covered over the years in there? regards, -Gunther -- Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D. gschadow@regenstrief.org Medical Information Scientist Regenstrief Institute for Health Care Adjunct Assistant Professor Indiana University School of Medicine tel:1(317)630-7960 http://aurora.regenstrief.org From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Mon Apr 1 21:31:20 2002 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:51 2005 Subject: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New" PDP-8)) Message-ID: <00b501c1d9f7$c83831c0$7ded9a8d@ajp166> As someone that runs a P166 on an ASUS board in a higher end case that can hold and run 3 RX56s{5.25" full height} and not melt, I would say better gives better. FYI: it's a 24/7 box that I rely on to work and it does quite well with NT4. Good PCs can be built but, you do have to work at it. Allison From doc at mdrconsult.com Mon Apr 1 21:45:57 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:51 2005 Subject: The Future End of Classic Computing In-Reply-To: <3CA920BE.4090302@cnonline.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 1 Apr 2002, Ron Hudson wrote: > > Is there a simple boilerplate message I can send to my > congress critters (not that it will do any good with > Ms Fienstein or Boxer) to lodge my protest. http://www.eff.org/alerts/20020322_eff_cbdtpa_alert.html and for a more general response to this type of legislation: http://www.digitalconsumer.org/fax.html > I hope that, if this passes into law, Linux can get the > copyright cop software included and get registered.... > > Oh, I suppose since I can re-compile Linux any time I want > and can change the code however I like Linux will **never** > get the stamp of government approval... For a lot of reasons, both technical and corporate/political, Linux and _all_ Free (as in Software, not Beer) code is going to be very hard-hit. Leahy effectively killed this incarnation of the CBDTPA last week: http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,51425,00.html but Hollings and cohorts already have clones in the works. Won't hurt to voice your views anyway. Doc From torquil at rockbridge.net Mon Apr 1 22:04:22 2002 From: torquil at rockbridge.net (Torquil MacCorkle III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:51 2005 Subject: Computers Manufactured in 1986 Message-ID: <074c01c1d9fb$8178c980$0200a8c0@tm2000> What are some good old computers manufactured in 1986? From groovelists at yahoo.com Mon Apr 1 22:16:37 2002 From: groovelists at yahoo.com (Andy Berg) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:51 2005 Subject: Computers Manufactured in 1986 In-Reply-To: <074c01c1d9fb$8178c980$0200a8c0@tm2000> Message-ID: <20020402041637.67547.qmail@web20501.mail.yahoo.com> Hi! :) Old-computers.com has a list they made at : http://www.old-computers.com/museum/year.asp?y=1986 The list seems at least somewhat accurate - pasted in the names they have listed there, am sure there are a lot more. :) CPC-5512 Amstrad PC 1512 Amstrad PC 1640 Amstrad APPLE IIGS Apple MACINTOSH PLUS Apple 520 / 1040 STF Atari AGAT 9 Elorg EXELTEL Exelvision FM 77 AV 20 Fujitsu FM 77 AV 40 Fujitsu PC XT 286 IBM TELESTRAT Oric KC 85/3 Robotron KC 87 Robotron X1 TURBO III Sharp X1 TURBO Z Sharp ZX SPECTRUM +2 Sinclair HIT-BIT F500 Sony SVI 738 - XPRESS Spectravideo COLOR COMPUTER 3 Tandy Radio Shack MO 6 Thomson TO 8 - TO 8D Thomson TO 9 PLUS Thomson HTH! :) Andy --- Torquil MacCorkle III wrote: > What are some good old computers manufactured in > 1986? > > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://http://taxes.yahoo.com/ From vaxman at earthlink.net Mon Apr 1 22:19:07 2002 From: vaxman at earthlink.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:51 2005 Subject: What editions of the VAX Hardware Reference are there? In-Reply-To: <3CA924C4.80904@aurora.regenstrief.org> Message-ID: Hi Gunther, I have: 1978-79 VAX11/780 Hardware Handbook (310 pages) covers VAX 11/780 1982-83 VAX Hardware Handbook (540 pages) covers VAX 11/730, VAX 11/750, VAX 11/780 1988 VAX Systems Hardware Handbook - UNIBUS Systems (~400 pages) covers VAX 11/725, VAX 11/730, VAX 11/750, VAX 11/780, VAX 11/782 VAX 11/785, VAX 8600 and VAX 8650 1988 VAX Systems Hardware Handbook - VAXBI Systems (~150 pages) covers 8200/8250, 8300/8350, 6200, 8500, 8530, 8550, 8700, 8800 8974, 8978 1988 VAXBI Options Handbook (~150 pages) covers VAXBI, CIBCA, DB88, DMB32,DWBUA, KA820/KA825, KDB50, KLESI-B, MS820, DEBNA, DRB32, DHB32, KBTFA, DWMBA, TBK50, KA800, MS800-EA clint On Mon, 1 Apr 2002, Gunther Schadow wrote: > Hi, > > I am looking for VAX Hardware Reference for the VAX 11/780, 11/785, > 86x0, the uVAX-II, and then the VAX 6000s. I suspect that's not all > in one book. But, what revisions of the Hardware Reference are there > anyway? I think the first edition is the 1978/1979, at least my > VAX Architecture Handbook bears this date. I understand that the > "Handbooks" were a 3-volume series, with volume 1 Architecture, > vol 2 Harware and vol 3 Software (VMS). I assume that they threw > out old models in more recent editions, right? Could we reconstruct > which topics are described in which edition of the Hardware Handbook? > > One can't buy those any more, how does that influence the right to > compile and share copies? I wonder if one could archive the > Hardware handbooks by subject and that way compile a single volume > with complete coverage of all VAXen. > > Besides, there is a mystical "Perepherial Handbook" to which I have > seen reference once, but never any copy in bookstores, catalogues or > on eBay. Did it ever exist? Was it volume 4 of the series? What > items were covered over the years in there? > > regards, > -Gunther > > > -- > Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D. gschadow@regenstrief.org > Medical Information Scientist Regenstrief Institute for Health Care > Adjunct Assistant Professor Indiana University School of Medicine > tel:1(317)630-7960 http://aurora.regenstrief.org > > > From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Apr 1 22:21:27 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:51 2005 Subject: Computers Manufactured in 1986 In-Reply-To: from "Torquil MacCorkle III" at Apr 01, 2002 11:04:22 PM Message-ID: <200204020421.g324LRY20571@shell1.aracnet.com> > What are some good old computers manufactured in 1986? Well, since I don't think DEC was still making PDP-10's at that point, that means you're limited to various PDP-11's, VAXen, and the Macintosh. Zane From dquebbeman at acm.org Mon Apr 1 22:23:03 2002 From: dquebbeman at acm.org (Douglas H. Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:51 2005 Subject: Pr1marily Contented (Longish) Message-ID: <003801c1d9fe$18727780$55efffcc@Shadow> Now that my Prime 2455 is fully operational again, I want to thank everyone who offered advice here. After giving up on repairing the power supply, I decided to buy one. Had I known they'd only cost $100, I'd have bought one sooner. Well, that was my Christmas present to myself for Christmas 2000. It arrives, I install it, press the power button, and see a message from the VCP about it beginning its self-test. Then it completes, and then I get the date & time, and then... Then I get the "ON" LED flashing defiantly at a 2 Hz rate. Time passed, and I began to suspect that more than the PSU had gotten toasted. I intended to start saving money to shotgun the machine, board by board, until I had it running again. More time passed and no savings took place. Well, in steps a lister who I believe wishes to remain anonymous. Said lister faciliated the acquisition of said boards, NONE OF WHICH SOLVED THE PROBLEM! Not his fault, of course... and there is more of this part of the story I'll relate below, that should be of interest to all ClassicCmp listers. But I should thank the lister again, he knows who he is, and without his help, the Prime would still be an emotional singularity... Finally, again in desparation, I posted again to comp.sys.prime. This time, an owner of the same model I have, replies. Over the course of several dozen e-mails, we narrowed down the problem. As it turns out, the replacement PSU was either failing to ground or was in fact asserting a line known as BBUREQ+, which signals a battery backup problem to the virtual control panel. Grounding that pin got the system past the point in the boot where it would flash the LED. I suspect a forgotten FCO... More problems... it says it thinks its a 2450 and it can see it has 2455 parts, not right, won't boot. Swap VCP. Same. Swap in my original VCP. Ok, now it's happyy... nope, now the CPU won't verify. Swap in a second CPU board set. Nope. Ok, go for broke, swap in the remaining CPU board set, replace newly-provided CPU board interconnects (top hats) with my old ones. Replace my VCP-to-CPU cable with 3rd party cable. Now it's verifying the CPU ok, but can't autoboot from drive unit 0. I freak thinking it's the controller. Better that than the drive, tho... The bulkhead cable had gotten munged a bit, so I began to suspect it, and mangle it further trying to fix it. Still no good. Ok, stick a new connector on the cable. Nope. Remove and reseat the external cable to the duplex shoebox. Nope. Try different SCSI unit addresses... hey, that worked... But I can only see one drive. I mess around with various adresses, suspecting a dropped bit in the bad cable. Still can't get them both online. I finally ended up swapping the two unit select switches, or rather, the connectors, so that each drive was using the other's selectors. Then set them for the appropriate values. Bingo! Autoboot to unit 0 and unit 1 is also seen and mounted. So, I'm able to boot it into: Primos Rev. 23.4.Y2K.R1 Primos Rev. 20.0.8 Primos II Rev. 20 and these from either disk or tape. Whew! ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Now, on to the part of the story that's widely applicable. Don't underestimate the potential usefulness of a 3rd-party service organization. The company in question services other stuff that they actually make money from. But they make no money from servicing Primes. They have a policy about repairs, as since these days, it's mostly remove & replace. Techs with experience are expensive so customers tend to do their own work. But this firm charges for a part IF and ONLY IF it effects a repair. Now, that's probably standard. But when a part doesn't fix the problem, this firm has no desire to incur the shipping costs of returning the part to them, and they sure as hell can't get the customer to pay for it if it doesn't contribute to the fix. So the upshot of this is that I got to keep all the spares, and the lister who facilitated this will be charged only for the time spent talking to a technician (who found the thing about the LED flash and what it meant *ABOUT 4 HOURS* after I got the system semi-operational as described above). >From the postings here, most of you would be a little better equipped (not much just a little) to financially faciliate a repair operation like this one became. But I suspect that like me, a 3rd-party servce organzation would be about the last thing you'd consider, as a hobbyist. You'd assume like I did that it would cost a fortune. But the technician I spoke to was also a preservationist (although now I forget what he likes!). So before you give up on that old iron and dump it, try calling for service, and when you get the technician, explain to *him* that you're non-commercial and can't afford much. You may just land a bargain. Regards, -doug q From jcwren at jcwren.com Mon Apr 1 22:24:03 2002 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (John Chris Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:51 2005 Subject: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New" PDP-8)) In-Reply-To: <001c01c1d9f0$0addc8d0$55efffcc@Shadow> Message-ID: I've been building PCs since XTs came out, and I cannot think of a single time that I've reamed out a screw, with the exception of one of those very fine pitch thread screws the CDROM manufacturers seem to like. If you're re-threading the hole everytime, perhaps you should take it a little easier on the poor PC case :-) I do have one theory that applies to PCs and cars: If you fail to shed blood and appease the gods, it will not work when you're done. --John > I should have been more specific... the screws to which I am > referring are those commonly provided for securing the cards > in their slots. And they shed metal not only from the screw > but from the rear of the chassis they thread into. > > In fact, everytime you insert one of these, it has a 50% > chance of rethreading the hole. > > Look at them carefully... they have a noticable taper. > > That's *one* way to encourage them to stay put. > > -dq > From swtpc6800 at attbi.com Mon Apr 1 22:20:16 2002 From: swtpc6800 at attbi.com (Michael Holley) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:51 2005 Subject: PCB vs perfboard construction economics (was Re: "New" PDP-8) References: <20020401223539.47316.qmail@web20105.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <003c01c1d9ff$2b5e9030$9865fea9@downstairs> I used to do all of my stuff on wire-wrap. I am now building classic computer board that I want to show off and a PCB looks so much better. I have done a few circuit boards from ExpressPCB and really like it. Michael Holley www.swtpc.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ethan Dicks" To: Sent: Monday, April 01, 2002 2:35 PM Subject: PCB vs perfboard construction economics (was Re: "New" PDP-8) > --- Ben Franchuk wrote: > > ...The board will be about 8" x 7" and $175 canadian for two > > prototype boards. Wire wrap sockets/wire/protoboard would cost me $100... > > While I can recommend a real PCB if the setup costs and the per-sq-in > costs are not killing you (price an Omnibus or Unibus-sized 4-layer board, > complete with gold fingers!), personally, my WW overhead isn't terrible: > I rescued all the prototype hardware from my former employer when they > went bust - I probably have three lifetimes worth of WW sockets. When > I do a project, the only part I have to spend money on is the wire. > > My last project is a good case-study for expense vs. time. I wanted to > replicate a scoreboard from a Dragon's Lair/Space Ace. I tried to find > one on ePay, but they only come up occasionally (every couple of months). > I decided to build one. I started with a couple of digital pictures, > a parts list and a schematic. Since the board was approx 6"x9", it > would have been somewhat expensive for a commercially-made PCB. There > are still plenty of surplus units out there that sell used for under $50 > when they are available, so it would be cheaper to wait for a sale than > to have a professional PCB created unless the new PCB added value somehow. > > I had the blue perfboard (from when the MicroCenter got rid of all of their > prototyping hardware at 80% off list!), the wire and the discrete > components. I had to purchase the LEDs ($0.65 each) and the driver chips > (a few bucks each). Total out-of-pocket expense was <$25. I probably > pulled about $15-$20-worth of supplies out of my parts bins. > > Construction took place over several evenings, watching the sci-fi channel, > tacking down point-to-point connections (didn't have the vertical > clearance for socketing the LEDs). I'm pleased that it worked the first > time! - pictures at http://penguincentral.com/retrocomputing/retrogaming/ > under the "LED Scoreboard" link. Mostly, it's pictures of the glow of > the LEDs, but there's one out-of-focus, flash-burned picture of the > perfboard and yellow wire in there (the Apple QT150 has about a 24" min > focal distance without the strap-on lens). > > The upshot was that if this were being done for anyone but me personally, > it would have been an economic disaster. Nobody would have paid me a > reasonable amount for that much work - it would have been much cheaper > to go to an arcade service company and *buy* a used scoreboard than spend > 10+ hours wiring up a board. It would have been much cheaper than that > to wait out the next wave of offerings on eBay (which I accidentally did - > the project took so long to complete that I _did_ pick a real one up for > around $30, after I was 95% finished with my replica. The good news is > that it made a nice functional benchmark to prove that mine worked). > > So I chose to trade my time for semi-instant gratification. I would > have loved to have done a PCB, but I chose not to spend the time with > layout tape and a blank board, and I chose not to pay to register a > demo-ware layout package so I could make a 6"x9" board. If I were to > make the new PDP-8 design that kicked off this whole thread, I'm not > sure if I'd get professional boards (~$200/set, in small quantities, > according to the designer, for a couple of 4-layer boards) or I'd > point-to-point it. In terms of $$$/hour, even $200 for a board set > is cheap. In terms of a discretionary hobby, $200 is a lot to divert > from other projects when I already _have_ a working PDP-8. With that > kind of money, I could start trolling for a Qbus SCSI controller! > > Back to the initial topic, though, I'd love to get a good buy on a dozen or > so spools of kynar-coated wire. I'd prefer an assortment of colors, but > I'd take it in whatever I could get - yellow, red, white... > > Anyone have a lead on any surplus places that have it for a few bucks > a spool? > > -ethan > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover > http://greetings.yahoo.com/ > From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Mon Apr 1 22:28:17 2002 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:51 2005 Subject: Laser computers Message-ID: <139.c02f7a7.29da8d61@aol.com> This is just a heads-up, but i'm looking for a replacement for the first PC I owned. It was a Laser XTSL, a 10mhz XT with dual 720k drives, 1meg and no hard drive. Bought it from sears along with an RGB monitor back in 1990 or so for around $400 and ran prodigy on it with a 1200bps modem! It was a pretty neat XT class machine even if I never did have a hard drive or a 5.25 drive. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020401/b889b7d8/attachment.html From doc at mdrconsult.com Mon Apr 1 22:30:28 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:51 2005 Subject: Computers Manufactured in 1986 In-Reply-To: <074c01c1d9fb$8178c980$0200a8c0@tm2000> Message-ID: On Mon, 1 Apr 2002, Torquil MacCorkle III wrote: > What are some good old computers manufactured in 1986? IBM RT ;) Doc From dquebbeman at acm.org Mon Apr 1 22:41:57 2002 From: dquebbeman at acm.org (Douglas H. Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:51 2005 Subject: Computers Manufactured in 1986 Message-ID: <003e01c1da00$bd364470$55efffcc@Shadow> > > What are some good old computers manufactured in 1986? > Well, my Prime 2455 is one example... That *may* be the year John's Cyber 180/960 was built... Any Apollo workstation made that year... Oh! Oh! Didn't the Mac II premiere in '86? Or was it '87? IBM RS/6000? Kaypro 2000? -dq From jpl15 at panix.com Mon Apr 1 22:52:30 2002 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:51 2005 Subject: Pr1marily Contented (Longish) In-Reply-To: <003801c1d9fe$18727780$55efffcc@Shadow> Message-ID: Ya know, there's a fairly well fleshed out 2450 sitting in the garage below me right now, along with a load of 9trk tapes and shelves full of (mostly OS and APP) doc.. if there's some thing else you need, drop me a line off-list and I'll see what can be done. This particular system boots after the drives warm up - so we're looking desultorily for another SMD swap drive and a couple of spare Seagate Sabres... but the machine does work - it even has an I/O card, and cable, that matches the Dataproducts 300 we have. Also, there are about 40 serial I/O cables, if you need a couple, perhaps something could be worked out. I rescued this computer from 'push it off the loading dock into the dumpster if no one wants it' , and now it has been transferred to the custody of a friend of mine, who I'm visiting right now.... FYI. Cheers John From jpero at sympatico.ca Mon Apr 1 18:03:56 2002 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:51 2005 Subject: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New" PDP-8)) In-Reply-To: References: <001c01c1d9f0$0addc8d0$55efffcc@Shadow> Message-ID: <20020402050217.EXQY21410.tomts14-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > I've been building PCs since XTs came out, and I cannot think of a single > time that I've reamed out a screw, with the exception of one of those very > fine pitch thread screws the CDROM manufacturers seem to like. If you're > re-threading the hole everytime, perhaps you should take it a little easier > on the poor PC case :-) I have not stripped the M3 (fine kind) ever yet. I did strip the coarse thread hole out in crap paper-metal cases once in awhile. Always discard the eaten-up philips heads or thread is stripped when I find them. Keep your philips number 2 screwdriver fresh by replacing now when screwdriver starts to cam out, that is how damages the screw-heads by worn tools. I'm not talking about sex thing! With that in mind: Cross threading happens when screw got cocked and kept screwing in. Cocking happens also if the screwdriver is worn or too loose (screwdriver #1 with #2 screw. Ditto to wrong fine screw in coarse holes or vice vesa. All of this I find always give lot of resistance if started wrong. If that ever happens STOP! and back off and keep going, keeping that screw straight while spinning counterclockwise (CCW) till I feel or CLICK! STOP. Now you're ready to spin counterwise CW safely and easily. CDROM and floppy, most others stuff use M3. HDs almost always are corase type but has to be 2mm long max and quality kind. Except bigfoots these ex-Quantum 5.25 bigfoots they use fine screw (M3). Weird. > I do have one theory that applies to PCs and cars: If you fail to shed > blood and appease the gods, it will not work when you're done. Hehehe... :-) Now no longer required. Simple pay bit more for quality and above average or excellent compatiblity and that will work every time. Cheers, Wizard From fernande at internet1.net Mon Apr 1 23:04:18 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:51 2005 Subject: Soldering and other skills References: <3CA90562.445FC7E2@diablonet.net> <3.0.1.32.20020401205205.0136f420@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <3CA93BD2.1080101@internet1.net> It's actully supposed to prevent it. I like it, although, I'm currently munching on baby carrots :-) It's good computer food..... no not to feed your computer, silly rabbit! Food to feed you, that won't make a mess while typeing :-) Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Roger Merchberger wrote: > Granted, in another 20 years they'll probably prove *broccoli* can give you > cancer... ;-) > > Laterz, > Roger "Merch" Merchberger From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Apr 1 23:06:58 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:51 2005 Subject: Computers Manufactured in 1986 In-Reply-To: from "Douglas H. Quebbeman" at Apr 01, 2002 11:41:57 PM Message-ID: <200204020506.g3256wI22223@shell1.aracnet.com> > IBM RS/6000? Kaypro 2000? I think the RS/6000 is much later. As for the Kaypro 2000 you could buy those starting in '85 I believe, I got mine in '87. Zane From fernande at internet1.net Mon Apr 1 23:07:35 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:51 2005 Subject: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New" PDP-8)) References: <20020401.195249.-333301.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> Message-ID: <3CA93C97.4030607@internet1.net> That and nobody want to pay for quality, with the excpetion of a small minority. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA jeff.kaneko@juno.com wrote:> > I think this started when we (the U.S.A.) began importing > parts made in communist countries. > > > Jeff From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Mon Apr 1 23:16:37 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:51 2005 Subject: Computers Manufactured in 1986 In-Reply-To: <200204020421.g324LRY20571@shell1.aracnet.com> from "Zane H. Healy" at "Apr 1, 2 08:21:27 pm" Message-ID: <200204020516.VAA24708@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > What are some good old computers manufactured in 1986? > > Well, since I don't think DEC was still making PDP-10's at that point, that > means you're limited to various PDP-11's, VAXen, and the Macintosh. I think the Commodore 128DCR was out by this time too. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- "Eight tries. The number is ... seven." ------------------------------------ From pat at cart-server.purdueriots.com Mon Apr 1 23:20:25 2002 From: pat at cart-server.purdueriots.com (pat@cart-server.purdueriots.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:51 2005 Subject: Apple IIe card Message-ID: I've got a card out of an Apple IIe that has a bunch of 7400 chips on it, a 4-switch dip switch, a 26pin header, and an EPROM with a label that says "GPC" on it. The board also has "GPC" and "519" silk-screened on the comonent side and "Made in Taiwan R.O.C." on the solder side. Google doesnt seem to reveal anything useful. Any ideas what this is? From torquil at rockbridge.net Mon Apr 1 23:31:35 2002 From: torquil at rockbridge.net (Torquil MacCorkle III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:51 2005 Subject: Computers Manufactured in 1986 References: <003e01c1da00$bd364470$55efffcc@Shadow> Message-ID: <07c201c1da07$ab678900$0200a8c0@tm2000> Pardon the ignorance here, But which would you guys consider to be the most modernly functional one of the 1986 bunch? (What I am trying to do together here is get a setup of only stuff made in 1986.... It'd be neat to have a system exactly the same age as me :)) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Douglas H. Quebbeman" To: "ClassicCmp List" Sent: Monday, April 01, 2002 11:41 PM Subject: RE: Computers Manufactured in 1986 > > > > What are some good old computers manufactured in 1986? > > > > Well, my Prime 2455 is one example... > > That *may* be the year John's Cyber 180/960 was built... > > Any Apollo workstation made that year... > > Oh! Oh! Didn't the Mac II premiere in '86? Or was it '87? > > IBM RS/6000? Kaypro 2000? > > -dq > > > From doc at mdrconsult.com Mon Apr 1 23:35:31 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:51 2005 Subject: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New" PDP-8)) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 1 Apr 2002, John Chris Wren wrote: > I do have one theory that applies to PCs and cars: If you fail to shed > blood and appease the gods, it will not work when you're done. Absolutely. Although Sridhar and I have discussed the possibility of offering up chicken blood instead.... Doc From sloboyko at yahoo.com Mon Apr 1 23:38:08 2002 From: sloboyko at yahoo.com (Loboyko Steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:51 2005 Subject: PCB vs perfboard construction economics (was Re: "New" PDP-8) In-Reply-To: <003c01c1d9ff$2b5e9030$9865fea9@downstairs> Message-ID: <20020402053808.47600.qmail@web11808.mail.yahoo.com> I've made a few medium-complexity PCB's (and I really mean, made, with icky chemicals, drills, etc). I didn't tape them, I used a 17 year old (legit, incredibly!) copy of Wintek's software. I like to wire-wrap one-of's because it gives me a feeling of satisfaction that I really built it (and didn't just stuff parts in holes), and, to me anyway, it just "looks" more handmade and unique. But if you designed the PCB, you can get the satisfaction of designing the board, and also the built-in capability of sharing or selling your design easily to people who might not be as committed or interested in the nasty details, but just want something to work with a minimum of fuss. I wire-wrapped a few 8008's and 8080's and sold them on eBay, but it wasn't really worth my time, except when I was unemployed. I'm thinking about doing PCB's and selling 8080 and 6800 kits. Seriously! --- Michael Holley wrote: > I used to do all of my stuff on wire-wrap. I am now > building classic > computer board that I want to show off and a PCB > looks so much better. I > have done a few circuit boards from ExpressPCB and > really like it. > > Michael Holley > www.swtpc.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ethan Dicks" > To: > Sent: Monday, April 01, 2002 2:35 PM > Subject: PCB vs perfboard construction economics > (was Re: "New" PDP-8) > > > > --- Ben Franchuk wrote: > > > ...The board will be about 8" x 7" and $175 > canadian for two > > > prototype boards. Wire wrap > sockets/wire/protoboard would cost me > $100... > > > > While I can recommend a real PCB if the setup > costs and the per-sq-in > > costs are not killing you (price an Omnibus or > Unibus-sized 4-layer board, > > complete with gold fingers!), personally, my WW > overhead isn't terrible: > > I rescued all the prototype hardware from my > former employer when they > > went bust - I probably have three lifetimes worth > of WW sockets. When > > I do a project, the only part I have to spend > money on is the wire. > > > > My last project is a good case-study for expense > vs. time. I wanted to > > replicate a scoreboard from a Dragon's Lair/Space > Ace. I tried to find > > one on ePay, but they only come up occasionally > (every couple of months). > > I decided to build one. I started with a couple > of digital pictures, > > a parts list and a schematic. Since the board was > approx 6"x9", it > > would have been somewhat expensive for a > commercially-made PCB. There > > are still plenty of surplus units out there that > sell used for under $50 > > when they are available, so it would be cheaper to > wait for a sale than > > to have a professional PCB created unless the new > PCB added value somehow. > > > > I had the blue perfboard (from when the > MicroCenter got rid of all of > their > > prototyping hardware at 80% off list!), the wire > and the discrete > > components. I had to purchase the LEDs ($0.65 > each) and the driver chips > > (a few bucks each). Total out-of-pocket expense > was <$25. I probably > > pulled about $15-$20-worth of supplies out of my > parts bins. > > > > Construction took place over several evenings, > watching the sci-fi > channel, > > tacking down point-to-point connections (didn't > have the vertical > > clearance for socketing the LEDs). I'm pleased > that it worked the first > > time! - pictures at > http://penguincentral.com/retrocomputing/retrogaming/ > > under the "LED Scoreboard" link. Mostly, it's > pictures of the glow of > > the LEDs, but there's one out-of-focus, > flash-burned picture of the > > perfboard and yellow wire in there (the Apple > QT150 has about a 24" min > > focal distance without the strap-on lens). > > > > The upshot was that if this were being done for > anyone but me personally, > > it would have been an economic disaster. Nobody > would have paid me a > > reasonable amount for that much work - it would > have been much cheaper > > to go to an arcade service company and *buy* a > used scoreboard than spend > > 10+ hours wiring up a board. It would have been > much cheaper than that > > to wait out the next wave of offerings on eBay > (which I accidentally did - > > the project took so long to complete that I _did_ > pick a real one up for > > around $30, after I was 95% finished with my > replica. The good news is > > that it made a nice functional benchmark to prove > that mine worked). > > > > So I chose to trade my time for semi-instant > gratification. I would > > have loved to have done a PCB, but I chose not to > spend the time with > > layout tape and a blank board, and I chose not to > pay to register a > > demo-ware layout package so I could make a 6"x9" > board. If I were to > > make the new PDP-8 design that kicked off this > whole thread, I'm not > > sure if I'd get professional boards (~$200/set, in > small quantities, > > according to the designer, for a couple of 4-layer > boards) or I'd > > point-to-point it. In terms of $$$/hour, even > $200 for a board set > > is cheap. In terms of a discretionary hobby, $200 > is a lot to divert > > from other projects when I already _have_ a > working PDP-8. With that > > kind of money, I could start trolling for a Qbus > SCSI controller! > > > > Back to the initial topic, though, I'd love to get > a good buy on a dozen > or > > so spools of kynar-coated wire. I'd prefer an > assortment of colors, but > > I'd take it in whatever I could get - yellow, red, > white... > > > > Anyone have a lead on any surplus places that have > it for a few bucks > > a spool? > > > > -ethan > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for > Easter, Passover > > http://greetings.yahoo.com/ > > > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://http://taxes.yahoo.com/ From dpeschel at eskimo.com Mon Apr 1 23:58:48 2002 From: dpeschel at eskimo.com (Derek Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:52 2005 Subject: Computers Manufactured in 1986 In-Reply-To: <07c201c1da07$ab678900$0200a8c0@tm2000>; from torquil@rockbridge.net on Tue, Apr 02, 2002 at 12:31:35AM -0500 References: <003e01c1da00$bd364470$55efffcc@Shadow> <07c201c1da07$ab678900$0200a8c0@tm2000> Message-ID: <20020401215848.A19335@eskimo.eskimo.com> On Tue, Apr 02, 2002 at 12:31:35AM -0500, Torquil MacCorkle III wrote: > Pardon the ignorance here, > > But which would you guys consider to be the most modernly functional one > of the 1986 bunch? Well, some of them are ancestors of modern machines -- the Mac II of the modern Macs, the Kaypro 2000 of modern PC clones (I believe), and the RS/6000 of modern IBM UNIX workstations. So you could choose the most compatible ones. Or you could choose the most powerful ones (of course, power depends on what you need -- CPU speed, I/O speed, ability to run particular kinds of programs quickly, etc.). The powerful ones may be the power-consuming ones, of course. So low power requirements would be another measure of goodness. You could even look for the smallest and most portable machines. But I would let them show their own strengths -- try them out, see if they have some software or hardware you like, or some features that haven't been duplicated in systems you're familiar with. -- Derek P.S. What about the Amiga and the Atari ST? No one's mentioned them yet. From wmsmith at earthlink.net Tue Apr 2 00:16:52 2002 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:52 2005 Subject: Computers Manufactured in 1986 References: <003e01c1da00$bd364470$55efffcc@Shadow> <07c201c1da07$ab678900$0200a8c0@tm2000> Message-ID: <003501c1da0d$fb2aca00$7685d642@Smith.earthlink.net> > Pardon the ignorance here, > > But which would you guys consider to be the most modernly functional one > of the 1986 bunch? > > (What I am trying to do together here is get a setup of only stuff made in > 1986.... It'd be neat to have a system exactly the same age as me :)) > In 1986 the computer I really wanted bad was a Toshiba T3100 laptop -- 286 processor, 10 MB hard drive and world's first plasma display (I think). Cost $3,400 in 1986, but you can get one on eBay today for around 10 bucks or so. For example: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2013655798 As far as non-minis go, this was the best of the best at the time, and arguably the most "modern." -W P.S. I waited 2 years and ended up with a T5100 with a 386/16 and monster 40 MB hard drive -- well worth the wait and the 5 grand (particularly as my employer paid for it)! From edick at idcomm.com Tue Apr 2 00:07:09 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:52 2005 Subject: PCB vs perfboard construction economics (was Re: "New" PDP-8) References: <20020401223539.47316.qmail@web20105.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <006501c1da0c$9fcd9e40$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> What I've encountered more and more is the inconvenience associated with trying to use current-generation components in wire-wrap. I'm always having to build adapters that make a DIP out of a TSSOP or the like. The adapters in a prototype often exceed the cost of a PCB. It's much easier to build small boards, about the size of a typical playing card, and that's enough space to house a microcomputer of reasonable capability, comparable with any "classic" 8-bitter of the '70's and '80's, including its I/O, memory, video, and mass storage interfaces. After I get the current task off the table, I'll take a closer look, but it seems to me that it's easier to put a system on a playing-card sized board, and cheaper too, using current technology, than to recreate the old stuff using parts that are increasingly scarce and boards that are needlessly large and costly. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ethan Dicks" To: Sent: Monday, April 01, 2002 3:35 PM Subject: PCB vs perfboard construction economics (was Re: "New" PDP-8) > --- Ben Franchuk wrote: > > ...The board will be about 8" x 7" and $175 canadian for two > > prototype boards. Wire wrap sockets/wire/protoboard would cost me $100... > > While I can recommend a real PCB if the setup costs and the per-sq-in > costs are not killing you (price an Omnibus or Unibus-sized 4-layer board, > complete with gold fingers!), personally, my WW overhead isn't terrible: > I rescued all the prototype hardware from my former employer when they > went bust - I probably have three lifetimes worth of WW sockets. When > I do a project, the only part I have to spend money on is the wire. > > My last project is a good case-study for expense vs. time. I wanted to > replicate a scoreboard from a Dragon's Lair/Space Ace. I tried to find > one on ePay, but they only come up occasionally (every couple of months). > I decided to build one. I started with a couple of digital pictures, > a parts list and a schematic. Since the board was approx 6"x9", it > would have been somewhat expensive for a commercially-made PCB. There > are still plenty of surplus units out there that sell used for under $50 > when they are available, so it would be cheaper to wait for a sale than > to have a professional PCB created unless the new PCB added value somehow. > > I had the blue perfboard (from when the MicroCenter got rid of all of their > prototyping hardware at 80% off list!), the wire and the discrete > components. I had to purchase the LEDs ($0.65 each) and the driver chips > (a few bucks each). Total out-of-pocket expense was <$25. I probably > pulled about $15-$20-worth of supplies out of my parts bins. > > Construction took place over several evenings, watching the sci-fi channel, > tacking down point-to-point connections (didn't have the vertical > clearance for socketing the LEDs). I'm pleased that it worked the first > time! - pictures at http://penguincentral.com/retrocomputing/retrogaming/ > under the "LED Scoreboard" link. Mostly, it's pictures of the glow of > the LEDs, but there's one out-of-focus, flash-burned picture of the > perfboard and yellow wire in there (the Apple QT150 has about a 24" min > focal distance without the strap-on lens). > > The upshot was that if this were being done for anyone but me personally, > it would have been an economic disaster. Nobody would have paid me a > reasonable amount for that much work - it would have been much cheaper > to go to an arcade service company and *buy* a used scoreboard than spend > 10+ hours wiring up a board. It would have been much cheaper than that > to wait out the next wave of offerings on eBay (which I accidentally did - > the project took so long to complete that I _did_ pick a real one up for > around $30, after I was 95% finished with my replica. The good news is > that it made a nice functional benchmark to prove that mine worked). > > So I chose to trade my time for semi-instant gratification. I would > have loved to have done a PCB, but I chose not to spend the time with > layout tape and a blank board, and I chose not to pay to register a > demo-ware layout package so I could make a 6"x9" board. If I were to > make the new PDP-8 design that kicked off this whole thread, I'm not > sure if I'd get professional boards (~$200/set, in small quantities, > according to the designer, for a couple of 4-layer boards) or I'd > point-to-point it. In terms of $$$/hour, even $200 for a board set > is cheap. In terms of a discretionary hobby, $200 is a lot to divert > from other projects when I already _have_ a working PDP-8. With that > kind of money, I could start trolling for a Qbus SCSI controller! > > Back to the initial topic, though, I'd love to get a good buy on a dozen or > so spools of kynar-coated wire. I'd prefer an assortment of colors, but > I'd take it in whatever I could get - yellow, red, white... > > Anyone have a lead on any surplus places that have it for a few bucks > a spool? > > -ethan > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover > http://greetings.yahoo.com/ > > From doc at mdrconsult.com Tue Apr 2 00:24:49 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:52 2005 Subject: Computers Manufactured in 1986 In-Reply-To: <07c201c1da07$ab678900$0200a8c0@tm2000> Message-ID: On Tue, 2 Apr 2002, Torquil MacCorkle III wrote: > Pardon the ignorance here, > > But which would you guys consider to be the most modernly functional one > of the 1986 bunch? That's going to be a very subjective call. What criteria define "modern"? The Intel-based 386 PC was out, Macintosh was out, Silicon Graphics were building MIPS boxes. The IBM RT was falling on its nose in the business world, and my boss, who was at TJ Watson then, says they were doing early development on the RS/6000. As best he can remember, and from the dates on the 7012-320 I have, they actually started shipping in 1990. From here, from my perspective of not being into electronics then at all, it looks like every other garage was a computer company. Just get one of everything, and have fun! Doc From wmsmith at earthlink.net Tue Apr 2 00:40:40 2002 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:52 2005 Subject: The Future End of Classic Computing References: Message-ID: <007501c1da11$4eb70140$7685d642@Smith.earthlink.net> > The Digital Millenium Copyright Act was no less ridiculous, and is now > Federal law. In the many times that law has been invoked, not one case > has involved the mass distribution pirates its proponents claimed to > target. Wrong. 4500+ copies is "mass distribution." http://www.usatoday.com/life/cyber/tech/2002/03/29/video-bootleg.htm In any event, the DMCA was intended to address not only those who distribute copies, but those who provide "circumvention devices" that enable others to engage in mass distribution. Doesn't it make as much sense to go after those involved in "mass distribution" of the circumvention device, such as DeCSS? From torquil at rockbridge.net Tue Apr 2 00:38:24 2002 From: torquil at rockbridge.net (Torquil MacCorkle III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:52 2005 Subject: Computers Manufactured in 1986 References: <003e01c1da00$bd364470$55efffcc@Shadow> <07c201c1da07$ab678900$0200a8c0@tm2000> <003501c1da0d$fb2aca00$7685d642@Smith.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <082a01c1da11$0092bb80$0200a8c0@tm2000> What about systems with ethernet. I'd prefer a medium between massive power-suckers and portables... like say, desktops :) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wayne M. Smith" To: Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2002 1:16 AM Subject: Re: Computers Manufactured in 1986 > > Pardon the ignorance here, > > > > But which would you guys consider to be the most modernly functional one > > of the 1986 bunch? > > > > (What I am trying to do together here is get a setup of only stuff made in > > 1986.... It'd be neat to have a system exactly the same age as me :)) > > > In 1986 the computer I really wanted bad was a Toshiba T3100 laptop -- 286 processor, 10 MB hard drive and world's first plasma > display (I think). Cost $3,400 in 1986, but you can get one on eBay today for around 10 bucks or so. For example: > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2013655798 > > As far as non-minis go, this was the best of the best at the time, and arguably the most "modern." > > -W > > P.S. I waited 2 years and ended up with a T5100 with a 386/16 and monster 40 MB hard drive -- well worth the wait and the 5 grand > (particularly as my employer paid for it)! > From gkaplan63 at hotmail.com Tue Apr 2 00:39:08 2002 From: gkaplan63 at hotmail.com (Gerry Kaplan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:52 2005 Subject: Wanted: IBM Mag Card Composer, Electronic Selectric Composer or IBM 5100 or 5110 Message-ID: <003f01c1da11$17799df0$2101a8c0@bach> I collect the IBM Composer line of typesetting equipment. If anyone has or knows of any IBM Composers, I can provide them with a good home. I'm interested in any Composer related documentation as well. Also looking for: IBM 5100 or 5110 in working condition IBM Mag Card typewriters IBM Memory typewriters IBM Electronic typewriters (model 50 or 95) IBM 3101 terminal Thanks! Gerry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020402/4f50c403/attachment.html From spc at conman.org Tue Apr 2 00:45:38 2002 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:52 2005 Subject: The Future End of Classic Computing In-Reply-To: <007501c1da11$4eb70140$7685d642@Smith.earthlink.net> from "Wayne M. Smith" at Apr 01, 2002 10:40:40 PM Message-ID: <200204020645.BAA00441@conman.org> It was thus said that the Great Wayne M. Smith once stated: > > > The Digital Millenium Copyright Act was no less ridiculous, and is now > > Federal law. In the many times that law has been invoked, not one case > > has involved the mass distribution pirates its proponents claimed to > > target. > > Wrong. 4500+ copies is "mass distribution." > > http://www.usatoday.com/life/cyber/tech/2002/03/29/video-bootleg.htm > > In any event, the DMCA was intended to address not only those who distribute copies, but those who provide "circumvention devices" > that enable others to engage in mass distribution. Doesn't it make as much sense to go after those involved in "mass distribution" > of the circumvention device, such as DeCSS? While DeCSS is a circumvention device, a pirate does *not* need DeCSS to copy a DVD. DeCSS was created to allow someone the ability to *view* DVDs the author *already owned.* Now, the author wanted to view these on a device not blessed with the proper licensing and there in is the crux of the matter. When I buy a DVD, what, exactly, am I getting? -spc (I mean, besides shafted by Hollywood?) From sloboyko at yahoo.com Tue Apr 2 00:49:22 2002 From: sloboyko at yahoo.com (Loboyko Steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:52 2005 Subject: PCB vs perfboard construction economics (was Re: "New" PDP-8) In-Reply-To: <006501c1da0c$9fcd9e40$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <20020402064922.27710.qmail@web11806.mail.yahoo.com> Well, it is harder to do, and more expensive, but I personally find it more rewarding to hunt down old parts and have those parts period-authentic. For example, the Motorola 6800 I'm building uses a Motorola 6820 (surprisingly hard to find compared to a 6821) and an MC6871 hybrid clock generator in a can, also period and very hard to find (even the SWTPC used its cheaper 6875 successor and a separate crystal). I like to use ceramic/gold chips be the original maker of the chip for machines I'll display. I suppose, if all I wanted to do was "run" these machines, I could just load an emulator and be done with it. Weird, perhaps - maybe its because I couldn't afford even the parts to build these when I was in high school(and would be less likely to succeed in making them work or programming them). --- Richard Erlacher wrote: > What I've encountered more and more is the > inconvenience associated with > trying to use current-generation components in > wire-wrap. I'm always having > to build adapters that make a DIP out of a TSSOP or > the like. The adapters in > a prototype often exceed the cost of a PCB. It's > much easier to build small > boards, about the size of a typical playing card, > and that's enough space to > house a microcomputer of reasonable capability, > comparable with any "classic" > 8-bitter of the '70's and '80's, including its I/O, > memory, video, and mass > storage interfaces. After I get the current task > off the table, I'll take a > closer look, but it seems to me that it's easier to > put a system on a > playing-card sized board, and cheaper too, using > current technology, than to > recreate the old stuff using parts that are > increasingly scarce and boards > that are needlessly large and costly. > > Dick > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ethan Dicks" > To: > Sent: Monday, April 01, 2002 3:35 PM > Subject: PCB vs perfboard construction economics > (was Re: "New" PDP-8) > > > > --- Ben Franchuk wrote: > > > ...The board will be about 8" x 7" and $175 > canadian for two > > > prototype boards. Wire wrap > sockets/wire/protoboard would cost me $100... > > > > While I can recommend a real PCB if the setup > costs and the per-sq-in > > costs are not killing you (price an Omnibus or > Unibus-sized 4-layer board, > > complete with gold fingers!), personally, my WW > overhead isn't terrible: > > I rescued all the prototype hardware from my > former employer when they > > went bust - I probably have three lifetimes worth > of WW sockets. When > > I do a project, the only part I have to spend > money on is the wire. > > > > My last project is a good case-study for expense > vs. time. I wanted to > > replicate a scoreboard from a Dragon's Lair/Space > Ace. I tried to find > > one on ePay, but they only come up occasionally > (every couple of months). > > I decided to build one. I started with a couple > of digital pictures, > > a parts list and a schematic. Since the board was > approx 6"x9", it > > would have been somewhat expensive for a > commercially-made PCB. There > > are still plenty of surplus units out there that > sell used for under $50 > > when they are available, so it would be cheaper to > wait for a sale than > > to have a professional PCB created unless the new > PCB added value somehow. > > > > I had the blue perfboard (from when the > MicroCenter got rid of all of their > > prototyping hardware at 80% off list!), the wire > and the discrete > > components. I had to purchase the LEDs ($0.65 > each) and the driver chips > > (a few bucks each). Total out-of-pocket expense > was <$25. I probably > > pulled about $15-$20-worth of supplies out of my > parts bins. > > > > Construction took place over several evenings, > watching the sci-fi channel, > > tacking down point-to-point connections (didn't > have the vertical > > clearance for socketing the LEDs). I'm pleased > that it worked the first > > time! - pictures at > http://penguincentral.com/retrocomputing/retrogaming/ > > under the "LED Scoreboard" link. Mostly, it's > pictures of the glow of > > the LEDs, but there's one out-of-focus, > flash-burned picture of the > > perfboard and yellow wire in there (the Apple > QT150 has about a 24" min > > focal distance without the strap-on lens). > > > > The upshot was that if this were being done for > anyone but me personally, > > it would have been an economic disaster. Nobody > would have paid me a > > reasonable amount for that much work - it would > have been much cheaper > > to go to an arcade service company and *buy* a > used scoreboard than spend > > 10+ hours wiring up a board. It would have been > much cheaper than that > > to wait out the next wave of offerings on eBay > (which I accidentally did - > > the project took so long to complete that I _did_ > pick a real one up for > > around $30, after I was 95% finished with my > replica. The good news is > > that it made a nice functional benchmark to prove > that mine worked). > > > > So I chose to trade my time for semi-instant > gratification. I would > > have loved to have done a PCB, but I chose not to > spend the time with > > layout tape and a blank board, and I chose not to > pay to register a > > demo-ware layout package so I could make a 6"x9" > board. If I were to > > make the new PDP-8 design that kicked off this > whole thread, I'm not > > sure if I'd get professional boards (~$200/set, in > small quantities, > > according to the designer, for a couple of 4-layer > boards) or I'd > > point-to-point it. In terms of $$$/hour, even > $200 for a board set > > is cheap. In terms of a discretionary hobby, $200 > is a lot to divert > > from other projects when I already _have_ a > working PDP-8. With that > > kind of money, I could start trolling for a Qbus > SCSI controller! > > > > Back to the initial topic, though, I'd love to get > a good buy on a dozen or > > so spools of kynar-coated wire. I'd prefer an > assortment of colors, but > > I'd take it in whatever I could get - yellow, red, > white... > > > > Anyone have a lead on any surplus places that have > it for a few bucks > > a spool? > > > > -ethan > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for > Easter, Passover > > http://greetings.yahoo.com/ > > > > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://http://taxes.yahoo.com/ From tothwolf at concentric.net Tue Apr 2 00:48:30 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:52 2005 Subject: Apple IIe card In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 2 Apr 2002 pat@cart-server.purdueriots.com wrote: > I've got a card out of an Apple IIe that has a bunch of 7400 chips on it, > a 4-switch dip switch, a 26pin header, and an EPROM with a label that says > "GPC" on it. The board also has "GPC" and "519" silk-screened on the > comonent side and "Made in Taiwan R.O.C." on the solder side. Google > doesnt seem to reveal anything useful. > > Any ideas what this is? Which chips does it have on it? The best guess I can come up with based on the header, is a floppy disk or printer interface card. Also, how is the header positioned on the board? -Toth From pat at cart-server.purdueriots.com Tue Apr 2 00:50:49 2002 From: pat at cart-server.purdueriots.com (pat@cart-server.purdueriots.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:52 2005 Subject: The Future End of Classic Computing In-Reply-To: <007501c1da11$4eb70140$7685d642@Smith.earthlink.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 1 Apr 2002, Wayne M. Smith wrote: > > The Digital Millenium Copyright Act was no less ridiculous, and is now > > Federal law. In the many times that law has been invoked, not one case > > has involved the mass distribution pirates its proponents claimed to > > target. > > Wrong. 4500+ copies is "mass distribution." > > http://www.usatoday.com/life/cyber/tech/2002/03/29/video-bootleg.htm > > In any event, the DMCA was intended to address not only those who distribute copies, but those who provide "circumvention devices" > that enable others to engage in mass distribution. Doesn't it make as much sense to go after those involved in "mass distribution" > of the circumvention device, such as DeCSS? Show me one instance in how DeCSS was used to copy movies in full DVD digital quality, like the MPAA says. Never mind that you could do a straight binary copy of the DVD without any decryption to re-distribute it. Now, ask how many people use DeCSS-based code to view DVD's becuase no company wants to feed the MPAA money to sell a DVD player for their OS (eg. Linux) DeCSS is not intended for making copies, it's for guaranteeing fair-use rights guaranteed by US Copyright law. -- Pat From donm at cts.com Tue Apr 2 00:59:37 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:52 2005 Subject: Soldering and other skills In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 1 Apr 2002, Doc wrote: > On Mon, 1 Apr 2002, Roger Merchberger wrote: > > > Granted, in another 20 years they'll probably prove *broccoli* can give you > > cancer... ;-) > > One can only hope. > > Doc > You mean that George Herbert Walker Bush's dislike of it may have a valid basis? - don From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Apr 2 01:15:59 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:52 2005 Subject: Computers Manufactured in 1986 In-Reply-To: <082a01c1da11$0092bb80$0200a8c0@tm2000> Message-ID: Amiga. From doc at mdrconsult.com Tue Apr 2 01:19:21 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:52 2005 Subject: The Future End of Classic Computing In-Reply-To: <007501c1da11$4eb70140$7685d642@Smith.earthlink.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 1 Apr 2002, Wayne M. Smith wrote: > > The Digital Millenium Copyright Act was no less ridiculous, and is now > > Federal law. In the many times that law has been invoked, not one case > > has involved the mass distribution pirates its proponents claimed to > > target. > > Wrong. 4500+ copies is "mass distribution." > > http://www.usatoday.com/life/cyber/tech/2002/03/29/video-bootleg.htm Cool. I missed hearing about that. > In any event, the DMCA was intended to address not only those who distribute copies, but those who provide "circumvention devices" > that enable others to engage in mass distribution. Doesn't it make as much sense to go after those involved in "mass distribution" > of the circumvention device, such as DeCSS? DeCSS was a huge red herring. It was originally developed to _watch_ DVD movies, not _copy_ them. The DMCA proponents raised bloody hell about people downloading full-length DVDs to their computers and wathing them free. Get a grip. At the time - 1998 - the price of disk storage was more than a legal DVD, and unless you had a seriously wicked box, the quality sucked. Besides, even at cable-modem speeds, it takes a minute or three to download 5-1/2 _gigabytes_ of movie. I'm not a proponent of piracy. I do think that mass distribution should be a criminal offense. But we already have laws for that. DMCA, UCITA, and this new abortion all go way too far. Doc From wmsmith at earthlink.net Tue Apr 2 01:35:17 2002 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:52 2005 Subject: Computers Manufactured in 1986 References: <003e01c1da00$bd364470$55efffcc@Shadow> <07c201c1da07$ab678900$0200a8c0@tm2000> <003501c1da0d$fb2aca00$7685d642@Smith.earthlink.net> <082a01c1da11$0092bb80$0200a8c0@tm2000> Message-ID: <00b001c1da18$eff0f1e0$7685d642@Smith.earthlink.net> > What about systems with ethernet. I'd prefer a medium between massive > power-suckers and portables... like say, desktops :) > As someone else mentioned, the Compaq Deskpro 386/16 is your machine. Along with the harder to find ALR Access 386, this was the first 386 desktop and it led to the dethroning of IBM as king of the PC hill, as IBM didn't release its first 386 machine until the next year. Historically significant, powerful for its time, and you can use an ethernet card with it too! -W From doc at mdrconsult.com Tue Apr 2 01:33:25 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:52 2005 Subject: Computers Manufactured in 1986 In-Reply-To: <082a01c1da11$0092bb80$0200a8c0@tm2000> Message-ID: On Tue, 2 Apr 2002, Torquil MacCorkle III wrote: > What about systems with ethernet. I'd prefer a medium between massive > power-suckers and portables... like say, desktops :) Lots (OK, some) of the high-end 286 or 386 PCs at the time had ethernet. My RT has ethernet, but in its original configuration it was definitely a "power-sucker". Ditching ESDI in favor of IDE helped that a lot. My MicroVAX II, introduced in '85 I think and still sold in '86, has ethernet, but it is definitely a power-devourer. Doc From red at bears.org Tue Apr 2 02:05:23 2002 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:52 2005 Subject: Computers Manufactured in 1986 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 2 Apr 2002, Doc wrote: > The Intel-based 386 PC was out, Macintosh was out, Silicon Graphics > were building MIPS boxes. In '86? Not quite. http://www.sgi.com/features/2002/jan/20th/timeline.html ok r. From wmsmith at earthlink.net Tue Apr 2 02:26:43 2002 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:52 2005 Subject: The Future End of Classic Computing References: Message-ID: <00d301c1da20$1ef89220$7685d642@Smith.earthlink.net> > On Mon, 1 Apr 2002, Wayne M. Smith wrote: > > > > The Digital Millenium Copyright Act was no less ridiculous, and is now > > > Federal law. In the many times that law has been invoked, not one case > > > has involved the mass distribution pirates its proponents claimed to > > > target. > > > > Wrong. 4500+ copies is "mass distribution." > > > > http://www.usatoday.com/life/cyber/tech/2002/03/29/video-bootleg.htm > > Cool. I missed hearing about that. > > > In any event, the DMCA was intended to address not only those who distribute copies, but those who provide "circumvention devices" > > that enable others to engage in mass distribution. Doesn't it make as much sense to go after those involved in "mass distribution" > > of the circumvention device, such as DeCSS? > > DeCSS was a huge red herring. It was originally developed to _watch_ > DVD movies, not _copy_ them. The reason why something is developed is really not that relevant to how it may ultimately be used -- we (the US) build weapons of mass destruction as a deterrent to keep the peace, but they're clearly capable of great evil. If you're referring to the that DeCSS was developed because there was no Linux DVD player, this story is apocryphal. DeCSS is a Windows-only executable file; there never was a Linux version, and the claim that it was developed as a Windows file because Linux didin't support the DVD file structure is nonsense. Moreover, if you need the windows OS to decrypt a DVD, then you already have a computer that can play the DVD. From torquil at rockbridge.net Tue Apr 2 02:34:38 2002 From: torquil at rockbridge.net (Torquil MacCorkle III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:52 2005 Subject: WTB: Old Computers Message-ID: <08ac01c1da21$3d66ae80$0200a8c0@tm2000> Hi, So after a lot of deliberation over the Computers in 1986 thread. I decided on some that would work for me. If anyone has one of the following please let me know: Sharp X1 Turbo III Sharp X1 Turbo Z Sony Hit-Bit 500 Thomson TO 9 PLUS Apple IIgs ELORG Agat 9 Excelvision Exeltel Thanks, torquil From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Tue Apr 2 02:47:05 2002 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Carlini, Antonio) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:52 2005 Subject: What editions of the VAX Hardware Reference are there? Message-ID: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC47066537@exc-reo1.yagosys.com> > Gunther Schadow wrote: > > >I am looking for VAX Hardware Reference for the VAX 11/780, 11/785, >86x0, the uVAX-II, and then the VAX 6000s. I suspect that's not all >in one book. But, what revisions of the Hardware Reference are there >anyway? I think the first edition is the 1978/1979, at least my >VAX Architecture Handbook bears this date. I understand that the >"Handbooks" were a 3-volume series, with volume 1 Architecture, >vol 2 Harware and vol 3 Software (VMS). I assume that they threw >out old models in more recent editions, right? Could we reconstruct >which topics are described in which edition of the Hardware Handbook? There are lots of handbooks. I have: - VAX Architecture 1981 - VAX 11/780 Hardware Handbook 1979/80 - VAX 11/780 Architecture Handbook 1977-78 - VAX Hardware Handbook 1982-83 (the above all cover the VAX 11/7xx series only) - VAX Hardware Handbook 1986 Volume 1 - VAX Hardware Handbook 1986 Volume 2 - MicroVAX Systems Handbook - VAX Systems Handbook - UNIBUS Systems - VAX Systems Handbook - VAXBI Systems There are probably further editions. I'd say the technical content went down as time went on but they do all at least provide a user-level overview. >One can't buy those any more, how does that influence the right to >compile and share copies? I wonder if one could archive the >Hardware handbooks by subject and that way compile a single volume >with complete coverage of all VAXen. DFWCUG ( http://montagar.com/~patj/dec/hcps.htm ) are scanning stuff. I've not seen any handbooks yet but you could try contacting them and seeing how far they have got to date. They do have the covers of many handbooks available. I know that one of their problems was finding a way of removing the book spine cleanly (to feed the book through a sheet feed scanner). If you try http://www.decdocs.org you see a bunch of links to other sites, some of which have a few handbooks available in various forms (although I don't think the handbooks you want are online anywhere I have seen). >Besides, there is a mystical "Perepherial Handbook" to which I have >seen reference once, but never any copy in bookstores, catalogues or >on eBay. Did it ever exist? Was it volume 4 of the series? What >items were covered over the years in there? There is a Peripherals handbook (for the cover see: http://montagar.com/~patj/dec/pdp11/index.htm ) There were several editions, one every couple of years. These handbooks (which were not really a series as such) were marketing collateral. They were put together by marketing either to give away on customer visits, or to sell on. They should not be relied on too heavily for technical information (except, I suppose, in the absence of a real technical manual). Antonio From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Tue Apr 2 05:17:14 2002 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:52 2005 Subject: Ultrix root password In-Reply-To: References: <20020401231948.7224827F4A8@mail.wzrd.com> Message-ID: <20020402131714.A315260@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Mon, Apr 01, 2002 at 07:47:52PM -0700, Clint Wolff (VAX collector) wrote: > Easiest way is to attach the drive to a comparable machine running > a Ultrix that you know the password too. Mount it, edit /etc/passwd, > umount it, and re-install. Netboot NetBSD, mount, edit, ... NetBSD should be able to handle the 4.2BSD FFS of Ultrix. At least it is worth a try if booting the Ultix/VAX to single user mode don't work. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From bpope at wordstock.com Tue Apr 2 06:03:07 2002 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:52 2005 Subject: The Future End of Classic Computing In-Reply-To: <00d301c1da20$1ef89220$7685d642@Smith.earthlink.net> from "Wayne M. Smith" at Apr 2, 02 00:26:43 am Message-ID: <200204021203.HAA05973@wordstock.com> And thusly Wayne M. Smith spake: > > > > > DeCSS was a huge red herring. It was originally developed to _watch_ > > DVD movies, not _copy_ them. > > The reason why something is developed is really not that relevant to how it may ultimately be used -- we (the US) build weapons of > mass destruction as a deterrent to keep the peace, but they're clearly capable of great evil. If you're referring to the that DeCSS > was developed because there was no Linux DVD player, this story is apocryphal. DeCSS is a Windows-only executable file; there never > was a Linux version, and the claim that it was developed as a Windows file because Linux didin't support the DVD file structure is > nonsense. Moreover, if you need the windows OS to decrypt a DVD, then you already have a computer that can play the DVD. > No no no! The source for DeCSS was released and a Windows executable was made from that.... T-shirts have even been made with the source code printed on them. Cheers, Bryan From dquebbeman at acm.org Tue Apr 2 06:14:08 2002 From: dquebbeman at acm.org (Douglas H. Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:52 2005 Subject: Computers Manufactured in 1986 Message-ID: <000701c1da3f$e48f5cc0$e401a8c0@tegjeff.com> > > Pardon the ignorance here, > > But which would you guys consider to be the most > modernly functional one of the 1986 bunch? > > (What I am trying to do together here is get a setup of only stuff made in > 1986.... It'd be neat to have a system exactly the same age as me :)) I do believe most of us had that figured out. This list isn't really about modern computers. But hands down, the Macintosh would be the most modern of the bunch. Although it's not color-capable, the user interface is has is what Bill Gates stole from Apple and used to build Windows. So you'd be most at home there. I've been a Mac advocate from the beginning, but for my own purposes, computers with operating systems that provide a text-mode shell, such as the *nixen and its derivitives, VMS, Primos, DOS, are preferable. As someone with a tiny bit of a math background, the ability you gain with a sophisticated command-line environment is great. In most of these operating systems, you can string commands togther like factors in an equation, and perform complex transformations on sets of files all at once. Hard to do that with a Graphical User Interface. To the List: Was the AT&T 3B2 still being made in '86? If so, there's a good choice for him. I even know where he could get one... -dq -Douglas Hurst Quebbeman (DougQ at ixsnayamspayIgLou.com) [Call me "Doug"] Surgically excise the pig-latin from my e-mail address in order to reply "The large print giveth, and the small print taketh away." -Tom Waits From dquebbeman at acm.org Tue Apr 2 06:24:53 2002 From: dquebbeman at acm.org (Douglas H. Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:52 2005 Subject: The Future End of Classic Computing Message-ID: <000f01c1da41$644be770$e401a8c0@tegjeff.com> > Wrong. 4500+ copies is "mass distribution." > > http://www.usatoday.com/life/cyber/tech/2002/03/29/video-bootleg.htm > > In any event, the DMCA was intended to address not only those > who distribute copies, but those who provide "circumvention devices" > that enable others to engage in mass distribution. Doesn't it make as > much sense to go after those involved in "mass distribution" > of the circumvention device, such as DeCSS? When everyone realizes the inaudability of what would be lost if they used straight analog audio paths for copying, and thus they finally give up on digital copying, will the Entertainment Industry lobby for a AMCA? Will Radio Shack get busted for selling patch cords? DMCA is ridiculous. -Douglas Hurst Quebbeman (DougQ at ixsnayamspayIgLou.com) [Call me "Doug"] Surgically excise the pig-latin from my e-mail address in order to reply "The large print giveth, and the small print taketh away." -Tom Waits From dquebbeman at acm.org Tue Apr 2 06:45:21 2002 From: dquebbeman at acm.org (Douglas H. Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:52 2005 Subject: The Future End of Classic Computing Message-ID: <001e01c1da44$403a2bf0$e401a8c0@tegjeff.com> > Wrong. 4500+ copies is "mass distribution." > > http://www.usatoday.com/life/cyber/tech/2002/03/29/video-bootleg.htm > > In any event, the DMCA was intended to address not only > those who distribute copies, but those who provide > "circumvention devices" that enable others to engage > in mass distribution. Doesn't it make as much sense to > go after those involved in "mass distribution" > of the circumvention device, such as DeCSS? I just read the article... the person convicted was using what I believe is an *analog* device... but I suppose the difference between a digital device and an analog device won't matter to the Supreme Court. Now, this guy was *way* wrong... but he could have been prosecuted under any number of preexisting laws. Locally, a guy did this over 20 years ago with audio tapes (cassettes), was busted by the FBI, but worked out a deal, and not only didn't do jail time, but is considered the Premier Merchant locally for audio software... -dq -Douglas Hurst Quebbeman (DougQ at ixsnayamspayIgLou.com) [Call me "Doug"] Surgically excise the pig-latin from my e-mail address in order to reply "The large print giveth, and the small print taketh away." -Tom Waits From dquebbeman at acm.org Tue Apr 2 06:49:05 2002 From: dquebbeman at acm.org (Douglas H. Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:52 2005 Subject: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New" PDP-8)) Message-ID: <002601c1da44$c63b7060$e401a8c0@tegjeff.com> > On Mon, 1 Apr 2002, John Chris Wren wrote: > > > I do have one theory that applies to PCs and cars: If you fail to shed > > blood and appease the gods, it will not work when you're done. > > Absolutely. Although Sridhar and I have discussed the possibility of > offering up chicken blood instead.... Chris Smith and I were discussing repair techniques offline, and the above were amongst the discussed techniques. However, I prefer erecting totems next to the troublesome devices... ;) -Douglas Hurst Quebbeman (DougQ at ixsnayamspayIgLou.com) [Call me "Doug"] Surgically excise the pig-latin from my e-mail address in order to reply "The large print giveth, and the small print taketh away." -Tom Waits From carlos_murillo at epm.net.co Tue Apr 2 07:24:38 2002 From: carlos_murillo at epm.net.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:52 2005 Subject: The Future End of Classic Computing In-Reply-To: <00d301c1da20$1ef89220$7685d642@Smith.earthlink.net> References: Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20020402082438.00f138b4@pop1.epm.net.co> At 12:26 AM 4/2/02 -0800, you wrote: >If you're referring to the that DeCSS >was developed because there was no Linux DVD player, this story is apocryphal. DeCSS is a Windows-only executable file; there never >was a Linux version, and the claim that it was developed as a Windows file because Linux didin't support the DVD file structure is >nonsense. Moreover, if you need the windows OS to decrypt a DVD, then you already have a computer that can play the DVD. Funny. I first came across decss as source for Linux. It wasn't until later that it was ported to Winblows. Carlos. -------------------------------------------------------------- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org From fernande at internet1.net Tue Apr 2 08:10:24 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:52 2005 Subject: Computers Manufactured in 1986 References: <000701c1da3f$e48f5cc0$e401a8c0@tegjeff.com> Message-ID: <3CA9BBD0.9010009@internet1.net> Doug, Anybody, Isn't 86 the year the Mac Plus came out? The original was 84, I know. There was a model ot two inbetween the original and the Plus, but I'm unsure the exact timing. If a Plus is the 86 computer, I do have an extra with addtional goodies. It does have a slight screen fussiness in one corner of the display, However. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Douglas H. Quebbeman wrote: > This list isn't really about modern computers. But hands down, the > Macintosh would be the most modern of the bunch. Although it's > not color-capable, the user interface is has is what Bill Gates stole > from Apple and used to build Windows. So you'd be most at home > there. From pat at cart-server.purdueriots.com Tue Apr 2 08:21:27 2002 From: pat at cart-server.purdueriots.com (pat@cart-server.purdueriots.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:52 2005 Subject: The Future End of Classic Computing In-Reply-To: <00d301c1da20$1ef89220$7685d642@Smith.earthlink.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 2 Apr 2002, Wayne M. Smith wrote: > > > > apocryphal. DeCSS is a Windows-only executable file; there never > was a Linux version, and the claim that it was developed as a Windows Really?? While they don't have the same physical name as the 'Windows Version', there's a lot of Linux 'DeCSS versions' out there. Just search google for "DeCSS" and "Linux". -- Pat From msell at ontimesupport.com Tue Apr 2 08:32:32 2002 From: msell at ontimesupport.com (Matthew Sell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:52 2005 Subject: The Future End of Classic Computing In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.20020402082438.00f138b4@pop1.epm.net.co> References: <00d301c1da20$1ef89220$7685d642@Smith.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020402082935.0328be88@127.0.0.1> Same here. It was developed for Linux first. - Matt P.S. - On a side note, the following web site has some neat references to alternative expressions of DeCSS: http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/DeCSS/Gallery/ >Funny. I first came across decss as source for Linux. It wasn't until >later that it was ported to Winblows. > >Carlos. > > >-------------------------------------------------------------- >Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org Matthew Sell Programmer On Time Support, Inc. www.ontimesupport.com (281) 296-6066 Join the Metrology Software discussion group METLIST! http://www.ontimesupport.com/subscribe_t&c.html. "One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" - Adolf Hitler Many thanks for this tagline to a fellow RGVAC'er... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020402/b23dca79/attachment.html From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Tue Apr 2 08:44:47 2002 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:52 2005 Subject: 2016 (was: ZX81 and 6116) In-Reply-To: <003901c1d772$a9744ee0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <3CA9DFFF.12014.22CDDC7F@localhost> > All but one of the 2K boards had a single 2016 and L2 was installed. > One 2K board had a 6116 and L2 was installed. The board was operational > and appeared unmodified. So it looks as if ZX 81s are a good source to get 2016s ? Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From dquebbeman at acm.org Tue Apr 2 08:51:23 2002 From: dquebbeman at acm.org (Douglas H. Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:52 2005 Subject: Computers Manufactured in 1986 Message-ID: <000701c1da55$dc37e310$e401a8c0@tegjeff.com> > Doug, Anybody, > > Isn't 86 the year the Mac Plus came out? The original was 84, I know. > There was a model ot two inbetween the original and the Plus, but I'm > unsure the exact timing. > > If a Plus is the 86 computer, I do have an extra with addtional goodies. > It does have a slight screen fussiness in one corner of the display, > However. Yup, 86 is right for the Plus. And for Ethernet, you can get a box that hangs off the SCSI port and provides the Ethernet ability.... The device in question seems to have been made by one firm and rebadged and sold by others... Seems like "Nova" is part of the name of the one I've got. Mine has 10-Base-2 (coax) and AUI ports, so it'd need a transceiver to do 10-Base T, I suppose.... -dq -Douglas Hurst Quebbeman (DougQ at ixsnayamspayIgLou.com) [Call me "Doug"] Surgically excise the pig-latin from my e-mail address in order to reply "The large print giveth, and the small print taketh away." -Tom Waits From pcw at mesanet.com Tue Apr 2 08:54:10 2002 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:52 2005 Subject: Computers Manufactured in 1986 In-Reply-To: <082a01c1da11$0092bb80$0200a8c0@tm2000> Message-ID: On Tue, 2 Apr 2002, Torquil MacCorkle III wrote: > What about systems with ethernet. I'd prefer a medium between massive > power-suckers and portables... like say, desktops :) > How about the Xerox Daybreak? Peter Wallace From hansp at aconit.org Tue Apr 2 09:05:17 2002 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:52 2005 Subject: WTB: Old Computers References: <08ac01c1da21$3d66ae80$0200a8c0@tm2000> Message-ID: <3CA9C8AD.7070909@aconit.org> Torquil MacCorkle III wrote: > So after a lot of deliberation over the Computers in 1986 thread. I > decided on some that would work for me. > If anyone has one of the following please let me know: > Sharp X1 Turbo III > Sharp X1 Turbo Z > Sony Hit-Bit 500 > Thomson TO 9 PLUS > Apple IIgs > ELORG Agat 9 > Excelvision Exeltel Oooh, Thomson TO9+ and Exeltel are not your run of the mill machines metioned on this list. Where are you located. Come to think of it the others on your list are off beat as well! I might be able to supply a Thmoson or an Excel -- Hans B Pufal From csmith at amdocs.com Tue Apr 2 09:32:43 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:52 2005 Subject: The Future End of Classic Computing Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E260BDB@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Ron Hudson [mailto:rhudson@cnonline.net] > Is there a simple boilerplate message I can send to my > congress critters (not that it will do any good with > Ms Fienstein or Boxer) to lodge my protest. Of course, if you're going to mail your congress-things, you may as well send copies to them as well. > I am against piracy, I think Napster has brought all this > down upon us because of the few who refuse to see it for > what it was, theft. You can't blame napster for the stupidity of politicians in the US. You can only blame the politicians, their parents, or the idiots who elected (or appointed!) them. That said, also, in defense of napster, as far as I am concerned, they were providing a service, and the fact that people chose to use it for what amounts to theft under law does not make napster guilty of theft. That's simply a case of the recording industry (for the most part) attempting to find somebody big enough to make them a lot of cash on the incident. After all, it wouldn't do them any good to prosecute their customers, who were, in fact, the actual "guilty" parties. Perhaps everyone would get along better if they spent the money they pay to buy stupid laws on customer relations. Enough on that subject, though, since it doesn't relate directly. > Oh, I suppose since I can re-compile Linux any time I want > and can change the code however I like Linux will **never** > get the stamp of government approval... ... and what will happen to "embedded" type systems? I certainly hope that I never end up having to include crap like this in a project that contains only 64k of ram. Honestly, I'm sure if it comes to that, I can find another place to live. Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From mythtech at mac.com Tue Apr 2 09:42:31 2002 From: mythtech at mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:52 2005 Subject: WTB: Old Computers Message-ID: > So after a lot of deliberation over the Computers in 1986 thread. I >decided on some that would work for me. > > If anyone has one of the following please let me know: > >Apple IIgs I (along with probably many others), can deal you an Apple IIgs if you wish. However, I do NOT have any complete systems I can part with, just CPUs (I own only one complete system, so that is mine, but I aquired 4 CPUs not so long ago, and they are currently just taking up space in my garage). I might also have either 3.5" and/or 5.25" drives to go with the CPUs (I have to check what is in the box). But I know for a fact that I do not have any monitors or keyboards or mice (although, in all 3 cases, generic Mac equipment will work, ie: any RGB monitor will work, or a plain composite monitor, and any ADB mouse and keyboard will work) -chris From mythtech at mac.com Tue Apr 2 09:52:04 2002 From: mythtech at mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:52 2005 Subject: The Future End of Classic Computing Message-ID: >The reason why something is developed is really not that relevant to how >it may ultimately be used So, according to you... if someone can find an illegal use for an otherwise legal item, that item should no longer be available to ANYONE, regardless of if it has legitimate legal uses? That being the case... please IMMEDIATELY surrender ALL your computers to me, since they are potentially capable of pirating software, which according to your logic, means you can not legally have said computers. I will make sure they are properly disposed of for you. While you are at it, I need a new car, so give me yours as well... after all, cars are used every day as transport mechanisms for illegal activity. I'll make sure it too is "disposed" of in a proper and fitting manner. -chris From csmith at amdocs.com Tue Apr 2 09:56:39 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:52 2005 Subject: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New" PDP-8)) Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E260BDC@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Douglas H. Quebbeman [mailto:dquebbeman@acm.org] > Chris Smith and I were discussing repair techniques offline, and the > above were amongst the discussed techniques. > However, I prefer erecting totems next to the troublesome devices... I still maintain the usefulness of runestones, incense, and rituals involving chant and the drawing of "signs of power" around the device. Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From dquebbeman at acm.org Tue Apr 2 10:32:12 2002 From: dquebbeman at acm.org (Douglas H. Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:52 2005 Subject: The Future End of Classic Computing Message-ID: <000701c1da63$f1462c90$e401a8c0@tegjeff.com> > >The reason why something is developed is really not that relevant to how > >it may ultimately be used > > So, according to you... if someone can find an illegal use for an > otherwise legal item, that item should no longer be available to ANYONE, > regardless of if it has legitimate legal uses? > > That being the case... please IMMEDIATELY surrender ALL your computers to > me, since they are potentially capable of pirating software, which > according to your logic, means you can not legally have said computers. FYI... John Draper was arrested and convicted in Pennsylvania in '77 or '78 for "possession of a device capable of defrauding the telephone company of its rightful tarrifs". I met him on his journey back to the left coast after he got out. The device in question? The Apple (autodialing) Modem, which he was developing for Woz. Why? Well, Woz doesn't like to do too much in hardware; he always like to minimize the logic design and use software to do the job (a great philosphy for controllers, a louosy one for general purpose computers). So rather than design the hardware to have fixed-frequency tones, the software could determine the tones to be used. Of course, that meant you could select the ESS interswitch "MF" tones instead of DTMF. Today, virtually every modem with a Rockwell chipset has this feature. Has Rockwell been locked up? Unlikely... -dq -Douglas Hurst Quebbeman (DougQ at ixsnayamspayIgLou.com) [Call me "Doug"] Surgically excise the pig-latin from my e-mail address in order to reply "The large print giveth, and the small print taketh away." -Tom Waits From csmith at amdocs.com Tue Apr 2 10:29:05 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:52 2005 Subject: Computers Manufactured in 1986 Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E260BDD@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Torquil MacCorkle III [mailto:torquil@rockbridge.net] > Pardon the ignorance here, > But which would you guys consider to be the most modernly > functional one > of the 1986 bunch? > (What I am trying to do together here is get a setup of only > stuff made in > 1986.... It'd be neat to have a system exactly the same age as me :)) Well, here's my list: AT&T Unix PC. 512k to 4M of ram [usually 1M], 40 to 60M hard drive, all in one system with a monochrome green screen, removable keyboard, and 3 button mouse. It also had a 5.25" floppy. It ran Unix SystemV R 3.0 or 3.5, I vaguely remember a port of some other system to run on it. Check some of the web pages you can find. There was a built in graphical windowing system, dynamically loadable drivers, and if you could get the ethernet board, or extra serial ports, you could run multi-user configurations. It could read/write (through special bundled software) MS-DOS disks, and there was also a DOS board for it with an 8088 CPU or something like that, and some RAM to let it actually run DOS, and DOS apps. These are pretty cool. See if you can google yourself a picture of one. :) Next: If you don't mind being something like a year off -- it was likely in prototype stage in 86, but released in 87 -- VAXStaion 2000 would be an excellent choice, too. It is a small (literally the size of a large lunchbox) VAX, with a built-in b&w framebuffer (for VWS, or X11), can accommodate an internal disk of up to 150M, and memory or (my memory is somewhat fuzzy on this) 8 or 12M, but you usually see it with something like 4M of RAM. You can also (if you use a lower-capacity, half height hard disk) fit a 1.2M floppy drive in there. There is a special inch- high expansion that screws on to the bottom of the unit to give it an external plug for another disk, and a tape drive (95 or so MB tk50). I believe it will run VMS, Ultrix, or possibly NetBSD. I would (and do on mine) run VMS on it, though. For a graphical workstation (that will actually plug into the wall! SGI didn't at the time), this is from Intergraph's page -- it ran a Unix-oid called CLIX: http://www.intergraph.com/ingrhistory80s.htm In 1986, at the Design Automation Conference, Intergraph introduced the InterPro 32C - the industry's first workstation with a processing speed of 5 million instructions per second (MIPS). This RISC-based computer was powered by the Clipper C100 chip from Fairchild Semiconductor and offered workstation performance that was five times more powerful than the VAX-11/780. Two separate 4K byte cache memory management units were linked to the CPU chip via a dual, dedicated 32-bit bus architecture. The unique combination of cache design and size provided for unparalleled instruction processing speed. The Clipper processor utilized the UNIX System V operating system. The second processor, an Intel 80186, was the I/O processor. And an Intergraph Raster Operations Processor executed the graphics commands and display operations. Then for the normal stuff, you may want to also consider: The Amiga 1000 (Launched in the UK that year...) Atari 1040STF (These had a GUI in the ROM, but didn't multitask without an add-on) The Tandy TRS-80 "Color Computer 3" (Not as impressive as the Amiga or Atari, but they're cool, especially if you have disk and tape interfaces, and perhaps a copy of OS-9) I have wanted one of these for a while, myself. Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From foo at siconic.com Tue Apr 2 02:38:53 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:52 2005 Subject: Apple IIe card In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 2 Apr 2002 pat@cart-server.purdueriots.com wrote: > I've got a card out of an Apple IIe that has a bunch of 7400 chips on it, > a 4-switch dip switch, a 26pin header, and an EPROM with a label that says > "GPC" on it. The board also has "GPC" and "519" silk-screened on the > comonent side and "Made in Taiwan R.O.C." on the solder side. Google > doesnt seem to reveal anything useful. It's probably a parallel printer controller. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From dquebbeman at acm.org Tue Apr 2 10:43:44 2002 From: dquebbeman at acm.org (Douglas H. Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:52 2005 Subject: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New" PDP-8)) Message-ID: <000701c1da65$8e077510$e401a8c0@tegjeff.com> > > From: Douglas H. Quebbeman [mailto:dquebbeman@acm.org] > > > Chris Smith and I were discussing repair techniques offline, and the > > above were amongst the discussed techniques. > > > However, I prefer erecting totems next to the troublesome devices... > > I still maintain the usefulness of runestones, incense, and rituals > involving chant and the drawing of "signs of power" around > the device. As before, no disagreement, I just think those things come built-in... except for the chant, and for that "down, not across" coupled with shaking an etherkiller at the thing, should be sufficient... -Douglas Hurst Quebbeman (DougQ at ixsnayamspayIgLou.com) [Call me "Doug"] Surgically excise the pig-latin from my e-mail address in order to reply "The large print giveth, and the small print taketh away." -Tom Waits From talk-lists2 at civilnews.com Tue Apr 2 10:44:46 2002 From: talk-lists2 at civilnews.com (Tim Johnson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:52 2005 Subject: Technical Forums Message-ID: <200204021644.g32Gitk41119@ns2.ezwind.net> You are invited to join... WaterTalk StormTalk SewerTalk ...three new Technical Forums for water resource professionals. These forums will keep you up-to-date with the latest tips and tricks in hydraulic and hydrologic modeling. Post your engineering questions and share your unique modeling experiences with a global audience of thousands of professionals. Learn more and sign up at the link below... http://www.haestad.com/e/m.asp?d=49&m=020328DGb Not part of the Civil Engineering community? Click the link below to remove classiccmp@classiccmp.org from our list... http://www.haestad.com/e/m.asp?d=27&e=classiccmp@classiccmp.org&m=020328DGb Or, reply to this message and change the subject to " stop ". LSID: 11546-390145 From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Tue Apr 2 10:48:08 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:52 2005 Subject: Computers Manufactured in 1986 References: <20020402041637.67547.qmail@web20501.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3CA9E0C8.341D8BC5@jetnet.ab.ca> Andy Berg wrote: > COLOR COMPUTER 3 Tandy Radio Shack yep! This should have been upgraded with a real keyboard and 80 column characters and a HD and sold as real computer not a toy. -- Ben Frantic - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From csmith at amdocs.com Tue Apr 2 10:47:33 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:52 2005 Subject: Old Computers Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E260BDE@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Torquil MacCorkle III [mailto:torquil@rockbridge.net] > So after a lot of deliberation over the Computers in 1986 > thread. I > decided on some that would work for me. I've forgotten two important ones from my list. One was the Apple II GS, of course. You can find the other here: http://www.scd.ucar.edu/computers/gallery/cray/xmp/xmp.html Space and power permitting, of course... :) Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Apr 2 11:02:05 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:52 2005 Subject: FT: Applied MicroSystms Corp EP-68000 Emulator Probe Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020402120205.007dcb70@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> I have the probe for an Applied MicroSystms Corp EP-68000 Emulator but I don't have the emulator so I'd like to trade it for the probe for an Applied MicroSystms Corp EM-180B Z-80 Emulator that I do have. The 68000 probe is about 8 x 5 x 1 1/2" inches in size and has two 68 pin ribbon cables on one end that connect to the emulator and two short cables on the other end that terminate with 64 pin DIP plug that replaces the CPU in the target system. The DIP plug is included. It is plugged into a machined pin socket in order to protect it's lead so the leads are all in perfect condition. If anyone has the Z-80 probe and wants to trade contact me directy other wise this goes to E-OverPay. I've posted pictures of the 68000 probe and Z-80 emulator at Joe From ghldbrd at ccp.com Tue Apr 2 11:52:11 2002 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:52 2005 Subject: Computers Manufactured in 1986 References: <20020402041637.67547.qmail@web20501.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3CA9EFCB.B1D0505C@ccp.com> You forgot the first Amiga (1000)! And the commodore 64, Plus 4, and commodore 16. Gary Hildebrand, Amiga fan St. Joseph, MO Andy Berg wrote: > > Hi! :) > > Old-computers.com has a list they made at : > http://www.old-computers.com/museum/year.asp?y=1986 > > The list seems at least somewhat accurate - pasted in > the names they have listed there, am sure there are a > lot more. :) > > CPC-5512 Amstrad > > PC 1512 Amstrad > > PC 1640 Amstrad > > APPLE IIGS Apple > > MACINTOSH PLUS Apple > > 520 / 1040 STF Atari > > AGAT 9 Elorg > > EXELTEL Exelvision > > FM 77 AV 20 Fujitsu > > FM 77 AV 40 Fujitsu > > PC XT 286 IBM > > TELESTRAT Oric > > KC 85/3 Robotron > > KC 87 Robotron > > X1 TURBO III Sharp > > X1 TURBO Z Sharp > > ZX SPECTRUM +2 Sinclair > > HIT-BIT F500 Sony > > SVI 738 - XPRESS Spectravideo > > COLOR COMPUTER 3 Tandy Radio Shack > > MO 6 Thomson > > TO 8 - TO 8D Thomson > > TO 9 PLUS Thomson > > HTH! :) > > Andy > > --- Torquil MacCorkle III > wrote: > > What are some good old computers manufactured in > > 1986? > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax > http://http://taxes.yahoo.com/ From rhudson at cnonline.net Tue Apr 2 11:02:28 2002 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:52 2005 Subject: Computers Manufactured in 1986 References: <000701c1da3f$e48f5cc0$e401a8c0@tegjeff.com> Message-ID: <3CA9E424.6030700@cnonline.net> >> (What I am trying to do together here is get a setup of only stuff made in >> 1986.... It'd be neat to have a system exactly the same age as me :)) Gosh, I was born in 1958, Anybody got a spare ENIAC ? Perhaps an abacus? :^) From jpl15 at panix.com Tue Apr 2 11:02:23 2002 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:53 2005 Subject: Recent 'Professional Forum' spam Message-ID: Hmmmm... "SewerTalk" might not be too far off the mark for this list, sometimes.. ;} Cheers John From csmith at amdocs.com Tue Apr 2 11:00:16 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:53 2005 Subject: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New" PDP-8)) Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E260BE0@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Douglas H. Quebbeman [mailto:dquebbeman@acm.org] > As before, no disagreement, I just think those things come built-in... > except for the chant, and for that "down, not across" coupled with > shaking an etherkiller at the thing, should be sufficient... ...but using the "built in" incense can have detrimental effects on performance. :) Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From info at haestad.com Tue Apr 2 11:09:00 2002 From: info at haestad.com (info@haestad.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:53 2005 Subject: Haestad Methods Email List Message-ID: Your email address has been removed from our email list. Thank you, Haestad Methods http://www.haestad.com From csmith at amdocs.com Tue Apr 2 11:07:00 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:53 2005 Subject: Computers Manufactured in 1986 Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E260BE1@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Ben Franchuk [mailto:bfranchuk@jetnet.ab.ca] > Andy Berg wrote: > > COLOR COMPUTER 3 Tandy Radio Shack > yep! This should have been upgraded with a real keyboard and > 80 column > characters > and a HD and sold as real computer not a toy. I'd forgotten the ridiculous keyboard. :) You're right, though. 512K wasn't far off from what other systems had, and the thing certainly had nicer graphics and sound than most peesees of the day. It wasn't hard, of course, to give it a hard drive, a real keyboard, etc. Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From dquebbeman at acm.org Tue Apr 2 11:12:01 2002 From: dquebbeman at acm.org (Douglas H. Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:53 2005 Subject: UCSD P-System & "compile once, run anywhere" Message-ID: <000701c1da69$8256c370$e401a8c0@tegjeff.com> I don't think the following post ever made it to the list, during the time my office's domain cesed to exist for a short time... > A friend was claiming that with the UCSD P-System, one could "compile once" > and then "run anywhere" (where "anywhere" means different kinds of > computers running the P-System, not different instances of > the same computer). > > Was this true? I've never seen it contradicted. [...until I saw some replies here...] > Did users commonly compile on system A and then take the P-Code to > system B and run it successfully? It wasn't likely common. [..aforementioned media problems interfered?..] > I'd have thought that media incompatibility would have tended to > limit this capability. Serial ports and modems would more or less get around this problem. [..but it would appear that serial ports baffle quite a few many people..] > Was any commerical P-System software sold that was a single binary, > but the vendor expected the user to be able to install/run it on > any brand/model of P-System? (Or, did vendors have to produce a version > for every platform?) The Smalltalk-80 System also used an interpreter, called the bytecode interpreter, and it was in fact common to take an application compiled on, say, a Xerox Dorado and run it on a Xerox Magnolia, or even a Tektronix box. I've seen references recently to an Alto version of Smalltalk-80 2.2, so the apps crafted at XSIS (Xerox Special Information Systems) like The Analyst(tm), might have been worked out on Altos then run at the The Company on Magnolias. -dq I know of at least 1 person who has a copy of The Analyst, which I almost bought in 1987 (I was just going to buy ASP, the Analyst Spreadsheet)... wish we could get him onboard in the preservationist movement -Douglas Hurst Quebbeman (DougQ at ixsnayamspayIgLou.com) [Call me "Doug"] Surgically excise the pig-latin from my e-mail address in order to reply "The large print giveth, and the small print taketh away." -Tom Waits From csmith at amdocs.com Tue Apr 2 11:13:53 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:53 2005 Subject: Computers Manufactured in 1986 Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E0178430F@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Ron Hudson [mailto:rhudson@cnonline.net] > Anybody got a spare ENIAC ? Not me... > Perhaps an abacus? Have one, also a small slide-rule but I'm kind of attached to them. Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From marvin at rain.org Tue Apr 2 11:29:04 2002 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:53 2005 Subject: Network Baluns References: Message-ID: <3CA9EA60.28CC750A@rain.org> I have the following which are free for the cost of 1.2 x shipping cost. 5 - Type 1 Baluns w/ Dual BNC Connectors 30+ - Type 1 Baluns w/ Single BNC Connnector, IBM P/N 6339082 30+ - T&B Nevada Western RG-62 to UTP Cable Baluns From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Tue Apr 2 11:40:42 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:53 2005 Subject: PCB vs perfboard construction economics (was Re: "New" PDP-8) References: <20020401223539.47316.qmail@web20105.mail.yahoo.com> <006501c1da0c$9fcd9e40$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <3CA9ED1A.56F83165@jetnet.ab.ca> Richard Erlacher wrote: > > What I've encountered more and more is the inconvenience associated with > trying to use current-generation components in wire-wrap. I'm always having > to build adapters that make a DIP out of a TSSOP or the like. The adapters in > a prototype often exceed the cost of a PCB. It's much easier to build small > boards, about the size of a typical playing card, and that's enough space to > house a microcomputer of reasonable capability, comparable with any "classic" > 8-bitter of the '70's and '80's, including its I/O, memory, video, and mass > storage interfaces. After I get the current task off the table, I'll take a > closer look, but it seems to me that it's easier to put a system on a > playing-card sized board, and cheaper too, using current technology, than to > recreate the old stuff using parts that are increasingly scarce and boards > that are needlessly large and costly. I would suspect that one would need a larger size PCB because that size of PCB can't hold things bigger than 56? pins. A reasonable CPU just fits in a 84 pin PLCC. Somebody (link not handy) makes a PLCC to breadboard adapter on the net, so you can use a breadboard for the newer (small) chips. It is the speed of the old I/O chips that are a problem. A 1.5 Mhz+ chip is high speed and all the good chips like floppy disc controllers are all in a mother board chip set for a PC. Mind you 8 bit CPU's are limited to 64kb as we all know is way to small for something other than a minimal PC. My own CPU design (in a FPGA) is limited to 512kb of addressing range if I want to emulate a fictional CPU in a 40 pin dip. While I use 32kx8 static ram and few special control signals and a UART in the FPGA most of my design is what a possible 1980's cpu could have been like: Limited front panel, Serial I/O, Dynamic Ram,Mother board with CPU. -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Apr 2 11:51:00 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:53 2005 Subject: The Future End of Classic Computing In-Reply-To: <000701c1da63$f1462c90$e401a8c0@tegjeff.com> Message-ID: > > >The reason why something is developed is really not that relevant to how > > >it may ultimately be used > > So, according to you... if someone can find an illegal use for an > > otherwise legal item, that item should no longer be available to ANYONE, > > regardless of if it has legitimate legal uses? In the Betamax case, the US Supreme court said that if there is ANY legitimate use of a device, then it is legal, even if most uses are illegal. (Warner Bros said that the primary purpose of a VCR was to make illegal copies (off the air) of copyrighted movies; Sony said that MOST VCR owners connect a camera and make home movies (porno?)) 'Course the current supremes, ... > John Draper was arrested and convicted in Pennsylvania in '77 or '78 > for "possession of a device capable of defrauding the telephone company > of its rightful tarrifs". I met him on his journey back to the left coast after > he got out. John obviously did not have Sony's clout with the court. Legal principles obviously are not as important to courts as whose ox is gored. > Has Rockwell been locked up? Unlikely... Should they be? From marvin at rain.org Tue Apr 2 11:51:30 2002 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:53 2005 Subject: Digital Networks & Communications Buyer's Guide, Networks References: <3CA9EA60.28CC750A@rain.org> Message-ID: <3CA9EFA2.2DA7D710@rain.org> I have the 1989 January - June DEC Networks * Communications Buyer's Guide, Networks free for the cost of 1.2 x shipping cost. The condition is a bit ragged on the outside 1" or so of the edges as it looks like it got wet. However, it looks like the rest of the book is fine. From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Tue Apr 2 11:54:57 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:53 2005 Subject: Computers Manufactured in 1986 References: <000701c1da3f$e48f5cc0$e401a8c0@tegjeff.com> <3CA9E424.6030700@cnonline.net> Message-ID: <3CA9F071.60F74645@jetnet.ab.ca> Ron Hudson wrote: > > >> (What I am trying to do together here is get a setup of only stuff made in > >> 1986.... It'd be neat to have a system exactly the same age as me :)) > Gosh, I was born in 1958, > > Anybody got a spare ENIAC ? > > Perhaps an abacus? > > :^) How about writing on a CAVE wall. *** Ducks *** Now do you one with or with out TUBES? Looking a list here http://members.iinet.net.au/~dgreen/timeline.html 1956 was a great year for TUBE computers. 1960 was a great year Transistor computers. ( Hmm I could get a PDP-1 ) -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From marvin at rain.org Tue Apr 2 11:58:06 2002 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:53 2005 Subject: Commodore 1701 Monitor, 1741 disk drives References: <3CA9EA60.28CC750A@rain.org> Message-ID: <3CA9F12E.DDC49696@rain.org> I have a Commodore 1701 Monitor for sale at $15.00 plus shipping. I've also got at least three 1741 disk drives for sale at $5.00 each plus shipping. From marvin at rain.org Tue Apr 2 12:19:26 2002 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:53 2005 Subject: NCR Tape Drive References: <3CA9EA60.28CC750A@rain.org> <3CA9F12E.DDC49696@rain.org> Message-ID: <3CA9F62E.EAB4F22C@rain.org> As you might guess from the earlier posts, I am "cleaning up" stuff that I neither want nor need :). I have an NCR SCSI tape drive for $5.00 plus shipping. I have no idea if it works as it came from a friends office. Cosmetically, it looks fine. A picture of it is at: http://www.rain.org/~marvin/ncr-tape.jpg From doc at mdrconsult.com Tue Apr 2 12:19:24 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:53 2005 Subject: Computers Manufactured in 1986 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 2 Apr 2002, r. 'bear' stricklin wrote: > On Tue, 2 Apr 2002, Doc wrote: > > > The Intel-based 386 PC was out, Macintosh was out, Silicon Graphics > > were building MIPS boxes. > > In '86? Not quite. > > http://www.sgi.com/features/2002/jan/20th/timeline.html Well, maybe: http://www.islandnet.com/~kpolsson/workstat/ 1986 January * Sun Microsystems first sells shares to the public. [110.219] * IBM announces the IBM RT Personal Computer, using RISC-based technology from IBM's "801" project of the mid-70s. It is one of the first commercially-available 32-bit RISC-based computers. The base configuration has 1 MB RAM, a 1.2 MB floppy, and 40 MB hard drive, for US$11,700. With performance of only 2 MIPS, it is doomed from the beginning. [6] [19] [41.114] [61.129] * NeXT and Apple Computer reach an out-of-court settlement on Apple Computer's lawsuit against NeXT. [110.99] March * Silicon Graphics decides to switch from the Motorola 68000 processor line to MIPS Technologies' RISC processors. [29] (month unknown) * MIPS Technologies unveils the 8-MHz R2000 32-bit CPU. With 110,000 transistors, it achieves a speed rating of 5 MIPS. [38.75] (1985 [42.124]) * MIPS Technologies begins volume shipments of the 8-MHz R2000 processor. [29] June * Systems incorporating MIPS Technologies' R2000 processor begin shipping. [89.13] [187] Although I'll probably take SGI's word for it. :) Doc From ghldbrd at ccp.com Tue Apr 2 13:20:54 2002 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:53 2005 Subject: Commodore 1701 Monitor, 1741 disk drives References: <3CA9EA60.28CC750A@rain.org> <3CA9F12E.DDC49696@rain.org> Message-ID: <3CAA0496.7ECE4649@ccp.com> Marvin Johnston wrote: > > I have a Commodore 1701 Monitor for sale at $15.00 plus shipping. I've > also got at least three 1741 disk drives for sale at $5.00 each plus > shipping. I presume those are 1541 disk drives . . . Where are you, I'm in zip 64506. I fclose by, I'll just pick up . . . . . Gary Hildebrand St. Joseph, MO From csmith at amdocs.com Tue Apr 2 12:23:36 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:53 2005 Subject: Computers Manufactured in 1986 Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E01784314@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Ben Franchuk [mailto:bfranchuk@jetnet.ab.ca] > Now do you one with or with out TUBES? > Looking a list here http://members.iinet.net.au/~dgreen/timeline.html > 1956 was a great year for TUBE computers. > 1960 was a great year Transistor computers. ( Hmm I could get > a PDP-1 ) I suppose to commemorate my birth, I'll need to get an S-100 box of some sort, or possibly: A "DECStation" A PDP-11/60 A VAX-11/780 (...but what would I run on it? It would have to be RSTS/E, since VMS 1.0 hadn't been released, probably.) Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From marvin at rain.org Tue Apr 2 12:34:49 2002 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:53 2005 Subject: Commodore 1701 Monitor, 1741 disk drives References: <3CA9EA60.28CC750A@rain.org> <3CA9F12E.DDC49696@rain.org> <3CAA0496.7ECE4649@ccp.com> Message-ID: <3CA9F9C9.30B80CC1@rain.org> Gary Hildebrand wrote: > > Marvin Johnston wrote: > > > > I have a Commodore 1701 Monitor for sale at $15.00 plus shipping. I've > > also got at least three 1741 disk drives for sale at $5.00 each plus > > shipping. > > I presume those are 1541 disk drives . . . > > Where are you, I'm in zip 64506. I fclose by, I'll just pick up . . . . I should have added that I am located in Santa Barbara, California 93105. You are welcome though to come by and pick them up :). Also in another two weeks, I'll be heading back east to Georgia probably along I-40 if that helps. From cdl at proxima.ucsd.edu Tue Apr 2 12:36:45 2002 From: cdl at proxima.ucsd.edu (Carl Lowenstein) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:53 2005 Subject: Soldering and other skills (was Re: QL-Quality (Was: ZX-81 Question)) Message-ID: <200204021836.AA00426@proxima.ucsd.edu.UCSD.EDU> > From: "Allison" > To: > Subject: Re: Soldering and other skills (was Re: QL-Quality (Was: ZX-81 Question)) > Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 08:40:54 -0500 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > From: Chad Fernandez > >How much lead does solder dor electronics contain? I thought only > >solder for pipes contained lead? > > The best alloy is 63/37 63%lead 37% tin. Common variety is 60/40. > > The lead is not a hazard by inhalation though some of the fluxes can be. > It is a contact hazard over time as it can be transfered from the skin > to lips and injested. Solution, wash hands after using. > > Solder for pipes, by mandate has been below 5% lead for years, it > used to be mostly lead {90/10}. But the replacement for lead in plumber's solder is cadmium. And cadmium is a pretty hazardous material itself. carl -- carl lowenstein marine physical lab u.c. san diego clowenstein@ucsd.edu From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Tue Apr 2 12:41:59 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:53 2005 Subject: Commodore 1701 Monitor, 1741 disk drives In-Reply-To: <3CA9F12E.DDC49696@rain.org> from Marvin Johnston at "Apr 2, 2 09:58:06 am" Message-ID: <200204021841.KAA17306@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > I have a Commodore 1701 Monitor for sale at $15.00 plus shipping. I've > also got at least three 1741 disk drives for sale at $5.00 each plus > shipping. 1741? -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- FORTUNE: Good day for romance, but try a single person this time. ---------- From doc at mdrconsult.com Tue Apr 2 12:39:50 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:53 2005 Subject: DeCSS; Was Re: The Future End of Classic Computing In-Reply-To: <00d301c1da20$1ef89220$7685d642@Smith.earthlink.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 2 Apr 2002, Wayne M. Smith wrote: > > DeCSS was a huge red herring. It was originally developed to _watch_ > > DVD movies, not _copy_ them. > > The reason why something is developed is really not that relevant to how it may ultimately be used -- we (the US) build weapons of > mass destruction as a deterrent to keep the peace, but they're clearly capable of great evil. If you're referring to the that DeCSS > was developed because there was no Linux DVD player, this story is apocryphal. DeCSS is a Windows-only executable file; there never > was a Linux version, and the claim that it was developed as a Windows file because Linux didin't support the DVD file structure is > nonsense. Moreover, if you need the windows OS to decrypt a DVD, then you already have a computer that can play the DVD. A) I never mentioned Linux in conjunction with DeCSS B) Whose version of that story are you reading? DeCSS was Open Source. I've NEVER seen a Windows version, I've SEEN the source code, and I've SEEN it run on Linux. Not owning a DVD drive, I've never needed it myself. I gave away my DeCSS T-shirt, which has the DeCSS source printed on it under a Freedom Of Speech banner. C) Your weapons analogy still fails. Neither DeCSS nor anything like it was ever necessary to duplicate DVD disks. Its *function*, as well as its purpose, is the decoding of the header and volume label info of a DVD-ROM, and the decryption and output of the .vob file to stdout. That's _all_. You *could* use it to copy a DVD to disk in unencrypted form, but that would be useless in a mass-distribution piracy operation. This thread has gone way, way afield of anything on-topic, so I suggest, if we're going to pursue it, that we pick a newsgroup to post in. Your call. Doc From brian at quarterbyte.com Tue Apr 2 12:43:02 2002 From: brian at quarterbyte.com (Brian Knittel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:53 2005 Subject: Computers Manufactured in 1986 Message-ID: <3CA98B36.21044.25A837B7@localhost> > But which would you guys consider to be the most modernly > functional one of the 1986 bunch? That would be you, Mr. MacCorkle. From doc at mdrconsult.com Tue Apr 2 12:44:15 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:53 2005 Subject: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New" PDP-8)) In-Reply-To: <002601c1da44$c63b7060$e401a8c0@tegjeff.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 2 Apr 2002, Douglas H. Quebbeman wrote: > > On Mon, 1 Apr 2002, John Chris Wren wrote: > > > > > I do have one theory that applies to PCs and cars: If you fail to shed > > > blood and appease the gods, it will not work when you're done. > > > > Absolutely. Although Sridhar and I have discussed the possibility of > > offering up chicken blood instead.... > > Chris Smith and I were discussing repair techniques offline, and the > above were amongst the discussed techniques. > > However, I prefer erecting totems next to the troublesome devices... Yes. My "Computer Gargoyle" has served me well. Doc From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Tue Apr 2 12:51:19 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:53 2005 Subject: Computers Manufactured in 1986 In-Reply-To: <000701c1da55$dc37e310$e401a8c0@tegjeff.com> from "Douglas H. Quebbeman" at "Apr 2, 2 09:51:23 am" Message-ID: <200204021851.KAA17162@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > And for Ethernet, you can get a box that hangs off the SCSI port > and provides the Ethernet ability.... I've got one of these for my IIsi and it works very nicely. The Mac Plus is still my favourite Macintosh, not least of which because it was the first Mac I ever got to use. This little guy sits next to the 7300+G3 and runs 6.0.8, speaks LocalTalk, and does nothing but play the old Mac game classics. :-) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Emulate your heroes, but not if they're dead. ------------------------------ From zmerch at 30below.com Tue Apr 2 12:47:30 2002 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:53 2005 Subject: Computers Manufactured in 1986 In-Reply-To: <07c201c1da07$ab678900$0200a8c0@tm2000> References: <003e01c1da00$bd364470$55efffcc@Shadow> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020402134730.0123ae88@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Torquil MacCorkle III may have mentioned these words: >Pardon the ignorance here, > > But which would you guys consider to be the most modernly functional one >of the 1986 bunch? > >(What I am trying to do together here is get a setup of only stuff made in >1986.... It'd be neat to have a system exactly the same age as me :)) My vote would be the Tandy CoCo3 - multitasking OS, maximum 106x28 screen (under OS-9) 512K Ram, hacked easily to 2M (recently hacked to *64Meg*!!) and other things. My first '386SX with VGA was solely a "nintendo" - when I wanted to do _real work_ I turned back to my trusty CoCo3 - for a lotta years. It debuted in '86, and production ran until '90 or '91, with closeouts still being listed in the catalog until '92, so they're finally _completely_ on-topic... ;-) Laterz, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. From torquil at rockbridge.net Tue Apr 2 12:50:54 2002 From: torquil at rockbridge.net (Torquil MacCorkle III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:53 2005 Subject: Computers Manufactured in 1986 References: Message-ID: <0a3c01c1da77$555f8010$0200a8c0@tm2000> Heh, Which SGI would actually have an R2000? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Doc" To: Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2002 1:19 PM Subject: Re: Computers Manufactured in 1986 > On Tue, 2 Apr 2002, r. 'bear' stricklin wrote: > > > On Tue, 2 Apr 2002, Doc wrote: > > > > > The Intel-based 386 PC was out, Macintosh was out, Silicon Graphics > > > were building MIPS boxes. > > > > In '86? Not quite. > > > > http://www.sgi.com/features/2002/jan/20th/timeline.html > > Well, maybe: > > http://www.islandnet.com/~kpolsson/workstat/ > > 1986 > > January > * Sun Microsystems first sells shares to the public. [110.219] > * IBM announces the IBM RT Personal Computer, using RISC-based > technology from IBM's "801" project of the mid-70s. It is one of the > first commercially-available 32-bit RISC-based computers. The base > configuration has 1 MB RAM, a 1.2 MB floppy, and 40 MB hard drive, for > US$11,700. With performance of only 2 MIPS, it is doomed from the > beginning. [6] [19] [41.114] [61.129] > * NeXT and Apple Computer reach an out-of-court settlement on Apple > Computer's lawsuit against NeXT. [110.99] > > March > * Silicon Graphics decides to switch from the Motorola 68000 processor > line to MIPS Technologies' RISC processors. [29] > > (month unknown) > * MIPS Technologies unveils the 8-MHz R2000 32-bit CPU. With 110,000 > transistors, it achieves a speed rating of 5 MIPS. [38.75] (1985 > [42.124]) > * MIPS Technologies begins volume shipments of the 8-MHz R2000 > processor. [29] > > June > * Systems incorporating MIPS Technologies' R2000 processor begin > shipping. [89.13] [187] > > > Although I'll probably take SGI's word for it. :) > > > Doc > From marvin at rain.org Tue Apr 2 12:52:58 2002 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:53 2005 Subject: Commodore 1701 Monitor, 1741 disk drives References: <200204021841.KAA17306@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <3CA9FE0A.56D741C6@rain.org> Cameron Kaiser wrote: > > > I have a Commodore 1701 Monitor for sale at $15.00 plus shipping. I've > > also got at least three 1741 disk drives for sale at $5.00 each plus > > shipping. > > 1741? Oops, still had the 17 in my mind from the monitor; they are 1541 drives. Thanks for questioning! From brian at quarterbyte.com Tue Apr 2 12:54:44 2002 From: brian at quarterbyte.com (Brian Knittel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:53 2005 Subject: OT: MS/Unisys Have Made My Day Message-ID: <3CA98DF4.26724.25B2EE73@localhost> > The M$ foot gets another dose of lead Ummm, Doc, I think you fell for an April Fools prank. If you view, say, http://www.wehavethewayout.com/xxx you get a standard IIS 404 page, and the HTTP response header say "Server: Microsoft-IIS/5.0" I think Microsoft learned its lesion when it took, what, a couple of years to migrate Hotmail off of Unix onto NT/2000? Or did I fall for the prank by responding? :/ =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- _| _| _| Brian Knittel / Quarterbyte Systems, Inc. _| _| _| Tel: 1-510-559-7930 Fax: 1-510-525-6889 _| _| _| Email: brian@quarterbyte.com _| _| _| http://www.quarterbyte.com From caprio at dcms.com Tue Apr 2 12:37:57 2002 From: caprio at dcms.com (Don Caprio) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:53 2005 Subject: CP/M and Imsai Message-ID: <200204021837.g32Ibv92020744@dcms.com> I'm new to this news group and the S-100 world so my appologies in advance for what may be stupid or common knowledge questions. I purchased an Imsai 8080 and would like to run some version of CP/M. Should I stick with Imsai's IMDOS, which we know works? If CP/M is doable What version would be the best choice? Does CP/M need some sort of BIOS like the PC? If so where do I get the BIOS source in order to burn an EPROM? Any help, pointers, URL's, etc wouldbe greatly appreciated. Thanks. From doc at mdrconsult.com Tue Apr 2 13:07:28 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:53 2005 Subject: The Future End of Classic Computing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 2 Apr 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > In the Betamax case, the US Supreme court said that if there is ANY > legitimate use of a device, then it is legal, even if most uses are > illegal. (Warner Bros said that the primary purpose of a VCR was to make > illegal copies (off the air) of copyrighted movies; Sony said that MOST > VCR owners connect a camera and make home movies (porno?)) If that _was_ Sony's view, the home-porn thing, it would be really ironic. VCRs killed erotica-as-art dead as rocks in the US. Doc From philpem at btinternet.com Tue Apr 2 13:01:37 2002 From: philpem at btinternet.com (Philip Pemberton) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:53 2005 Subject: Soldering and other skills (was Re: QL-Quality (Was: ZX-81 Question)) References: <200204020629.g326Tbl38201@ns2.ezwind.net> Message-ID: <000b01c1da7a$377d2c20$0100005a@phoenix> ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) said: > > Don't eat sandwiches while you're soldering...and wash your hands when > > you're done ;-) Lead in gasoline (petrol over here) was a bigger > > problem. > > But I am not at all convinced that the alternatives that are added to > 'unleaded' petrol are any more healthy... Hmm... Now you've me a bit more to worry about... > > Resin flux is a known carcinogen, so don't breathe the fumes. > > Oh _great_. Still, it's a well-known fact that research causes cancer in > rats :-) ROFL! Theoretically, judging by the amount of solder flux I've inhaled over the past few years, I should be either on my deathbed or have some form of cancer by now... Fact: If I listed every single chemical I've ever exposed myself to, it would probably be long enough such that if I printed it out, it would go to the sun and back... And some of the chemicals on that list: Acetic acid (photographic stopbath) Hydroquinone (photographic developer) God-knows-what (photographic fixer) Acetone (nailvarnish remover) Whatever SRBP board dumps when heated to 180 deg C (toner transfer) Ferric Chloride (PCB etchant) Lead (solder) Rosin (solder flux - Maplin probably don't use it in their lousy "Adepto" solder) Xylene (Electrolube lacquer pen) Mercury (glass tiltswitch) Need I go on? Once again, my philosophy is "Screw it - I'm going to snuff it at some point anyway". And if scraping my fingers (and cutting them) with solderjoints is as bad as breathing in solder fumes, I should REALLY be dead by now... Later. -- Phil. philpem@bigfoot.com http://www.philpem.btinternet.co.uk/ From csmith at amdocs.com Tue Apr 2 13:09:15 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:53 2005 Subject: Computers Manufactured in 1986 Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E01784315@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Roger Merchberger [mailto:zmerch@30below.com] > (under OS-9) 512K Ram, hacked easily to 2M (recently hacked > to *64Meg*!!) Ok, when I get a CoCo 3, I want it to have 64M of RAM. How's it done? :) Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From csmith at amdocs.com Tue Apr 2 13:12:28 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:53 2005 Subject: Computers Manufactured in 1986 Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E01784316@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Torquil MacCorkle III [mailto:torquil@rockbridge.net] > Which SGI would actually have an R2000? Um, none of them. IIRC, R3000 was the first chip that SGI used from MIPS. There are other systems that use them, including some (I have some r2ks, I think) made by MIPS, themselves. An SGI from that period is something like the IRIS 2000, or possibly by then IRIS 3000, which was very large and based around a motorola 68k chip of some sort. Great machines, but they don't fit your relatively low power requirement, and they're as large as your desk easily. :) Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From bpope at wordstock.com Tue Apr 2 13:15:18 2002 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:53 2005 Subject: OT: MS/Unisys Have Made My Day In-Reply-To: <3CA98DF4.26724.25B2EE73@localhost> from "Brian Knittel" at Apr 2, 02 10:54:44 am Message-ID: <200204021915.OAA01264@wordstock.com> And thusly Brian Knittel spake: > > > The M$ foot gets another dose of lead > > Ummm, Doc, I think you fell for an April Fools prank. > If you view, say, http://www.wehavethewayout.com/xxx > you get a standard IIS 404 page, and the HTTP > response header say "Server: Microsoft-IIS/5.0" > > I think Microsoft learned its lesion when > it took, what, a couple of years to migrate > Hotmail off of Unix onto NT/2000? > > Or did I fall for the prank by responding? :/ > No you didn't... Yesterday it was being hosted on a FreeBSD servier with Apache... Check out Slashdot at http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=02/04/02/130234&mode=thread&tid=122 for the inside skinny... Cheers, Bryan From zaft at azstarnet.com Tue Apr 2 13:17:58 2002 From: zaft at azstarnet.com (Gordon Zaft) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:53 2005 Subject: OT: MS/Unisys Have Made My Day In-Reply-To: <3CA98DF4.26724.25B2EE73@localhost> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020402121716.028bca40@mail.azstarnet.com> At 10:54 AM 4/2/2002 -0800, you wrote: > > The M$ foot gets another dose of lead > >Ummm, Doc, I think you fell for an April Fools prank. >If you view, say, http://www.wehavethewayout.com/xxx >you get a standard IIS 404 page, and the HTTP >response header say "Server: Microsoft-IIS/5.0" This is currently on Slashdot. It's been claimed that this was reported last week, but that M$ quickly switched it to an IIS machine. G From stanb at dial.pipex.com Mon Apr 1 14:50:27 2002 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:53 2005 Subject: 6809 single board computer (was: "New" PDP-8) In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 01 Apr 2002 20:21:34 BST." Message-ID: <200204012050.VAA03905@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) said: > In the UK, just about every colour TV has a SCART socket. This gives you > composite (PAL) colour (or monochrome, of course) and analogue RGB inputs > at TV scan rates. And sound in and out (stereo) and 3 data lines all in the worst connector known to man ;-) -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From stanb at dial.pipex.com Mon Apr 1 14:43:58 2002 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:53 2005 Subject: Soldering and other skills (was Re: QL-Quality (Was: ZX-81 Question)) In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 01 Apr 2002 20:55:27 BST." Message-ID: <200204012043.VAA03815@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) said: > > Don't eat sandwiches while you're soldering...and wash your hands when > > you're done ;-) Lead in gasoline (petrol over here) was a bigger > > problem. > > But I am not at all convinced that the alternatives that are added to > 'unleaded' petrol are any more healthy... > Especially in the higher octane stuff... > > > > Resin flux is a known carcinogen, so don't breathe the fumes. > > Oh _great_. Still, it's a well-known fact that research causes cancer in > rats :-) > Flux fumes are not a _major_ risk...other measurable risks include any food that's caramelized - like toast - and green vegetables ;-) The risks however are _very_ small... -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From stanb at dial.pipex.com Mon Apr 1 14:37:40 2002 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:53 2005 Subject: Soldering and other skills (was Re: QL-Quality (Was: ZX-81 Question)) In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 01 Apr 2002 14:33:04 CDT." <15528.46576.845805.877598@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <200204012037.VAA03730@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, Dave McGuire said: > On April 1, Stan Barr wrote: > > I've been soldering now for around 45 years, and I used to do a lot > > of bullet casting so I've handled a *lot* of lead in my time. > > I was taken ill a few years ago with some symptons that could be > > remotely explained by heavy metal poisoning so I was thoroughly tested. > > My lead levels were right on the average for someone living in an > > urban environment. So if you're sensible I don't see a problem. > > Don't eat sandwiches while you're soldering...and wash your hands when > > you're done ;-) Lead in gasoline (petrol over here) was a bigger > > problem. > > What did those heavy metal teste involve, if you don't mind my > asking? Blood tests mostly, I seem to remember (I was getting a lot of those!). They were just precautionary because of my long-term contact with lead, and occasionally mercury many years before. > > > Resin flux is a known carcinogen, so don't breathe the fumes. > > Oh, yuck, I didn't know that...I think I'll invest in one of those > filtered blowers. It's not _very_ dangerous, more of a long-term risk, but enough to be worth taking care... -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From doc at mdrconsult.com Tue Apr 2 13:20:26 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:53 2005 Subject: Computers Manufactured in 1986 In-Reply-To: <0a3c01c1da77$555f8010$0200a8c0@tm2000> Message-ID: On Tue, 2 Apr 2002, Torquil MacCorkle III wrote: > Heh, > > Which SGI would actually have an R2000? The "Professional Iris". bear was right. I did some more googling, and it didn't make it out the door till '87. Doc From csmith at amdocs.com Tue Apr 2 13:30:39 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:53 2005 Subject: CP/M and Imsai Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E01784317@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Don Caprio [mailto:caprio@dcms.com] > I purchased an Imsai 8080 and would like to run some version of CP/M. > Should I stick with Imsai's IMDOS, which we know works? If > CP/M is doable > What version would be the best choice? Don't know. Sorry. > Does CP/M need some sort of BIOS like the PC? If so where do > I get the BIOS > source in order to burn an EPROM? This one I can answer. Yes, it does. -- and -- EPROM? Who needs an EPROM? (CP/M BIOS is stored on the floppy and loaded into RAM, generally.) Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From zmerch at 30below.com Tue Apr 2 13:35:00 2002 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:53 2005 Subject: OT: MS/Unisys Have Made My Day In-Reply-To: <3CA98DF4.26724.25B2EE73@localhost> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020402143500.0123ae88@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Brian Knittel may have mentioned these words: >> The M$ foot gets another dose of lead > >Ummm, Doc, I think you fell for an April Fools prank. >If you view, say, http://www.wehavethewayout.com/xxx >you get a standard IIS 404 page, and the HTTP >response header say "Server: Microsoft-IIS/5.0" Which is very easy to hack... Besides, when I brought it up, it only mentioned IIS (no version) on the "response page" which can say anything, even in Apache. >I think Microsoft learned its lesion when >it took, what, a couple of years to migrate >Hotmail off of Unix onto NT/2000? > >Or did I fall for the prank by responding? :/ No, because I telnetted to port 110 and they're running a slightly modified Qpopper version 2.53 as a POP server, which does not have executibles for Winders anything... And besides, if it wasn't true, why was there this line: "Representatives at Unisys and Microsoft weren't immediately available for comment." They'd be happy to comment if it wasn't running FreeBSD, which if they finally did rid themselves over at Hotmail, they did it very recently... Laterz, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. From zmerch at 30below.com Tue Apr 2 13:37:15 2002 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:53 2005 Subject: OT: MS/Unisys Have Made My Day Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020402143715.01257660@mail.30below.com> And I just tested it... the website seems to be down. (Yes, I did try in both Nutscrape & Interment Exploder)... Hasty switchover, mayhaps? Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. From doc at mdrconsult.com Tue Apr 2 13:38:55 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:53 2005 Subject: OT: MS/Unisys Have Made My Day In-Reply-To: <3CA98DF4.26724.25B2EE73@localhost> Message-ID: On Tue, 2 Apr 2002, Brian Knittel wrote: > > The M$ foot gets another dose of lead > > Ummm, Doc, I think you fell for an April Fools prank. > If you view, say, http://www.wehavethewayout.com/xxx > you get a standard IIS 404 page, and the HTTP > response header say "Server: Microsoft-IIS/5.0" Wow. I ran "nmap" (-O option just scans for a platform "signature") against that site yesterday and it was running FreeBSD for sure. Now it's running XP Pro RC1 or RC2, and the page is completely blank. Spin~!!!! Doc From mythtech at mac.com Tue Apr 2 13:39:02 2002 From: mythtech at mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:53 2005 Subject: The Future End of Classic Computing Message-ID: >In the Betamax case, the US Supreme court said that if there is ANY >legitimate use of a device, then it is legal, even if most uses are >illegal. And that's the way it SHOULD be. Prosecute the people for doing something illegal, NOT for owning or using a device that COULD be used for illegal purposes regardless of what they were using it for. -chris From dtwright at uiuc.edu Tue Apr 2 13:48:54 2002 From: dtwright at uiuc.edu (Dan Wright) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:53 2005 Subject: Computers Manufactured in 1986 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020402194854.GH790222@uiuc.edu> Doc said: > On Tue, 2 Apr 2002, r. 'bear' stricklin wrote: > > > On Tue, 2 Apr 2002, Doc wrote: > > > > > The Intel-based 386 PC was out, Macintosh was out, Silicon Graphics > > > were building MIPS boxes. > > > > In '86? Not quite. > > > > http://www.sgi.com/features/2002/jan/20th/timeline.html It says they shipped their first RISC workstation in 1987. This was a MIPS-based workstation...the IRIS-4D line. They didn't BUY MIPS until 1992, though... it's a good bet that the "decide to switch from..." line item below means "SGI decides to use the MIPS processor in the IRIS-4D". They didn't actually get the 4D out till the next year... > > Well, maybe: > > http://www.islandnet.com/~kpolsson/workstat/ > > 1986 > > January > * Sun Microsystems first sells shares to the public. [110.219] > * IBM announces the IBM RT Personal Computer, using RISC-based > technology from IBM's "801" project of the mid-70s. It is one of the > first commercially-available 32-bit RISC-based computers. The base > configuration has 1 MB RAM, a 1.2 MB floppy, and 40 MB hard drive, for > US$11,700. With performance of only 2 MIPS, it is doomed from the > beginning. [6] [19] [41.114] [61.129] > * NeXT and Apple Computer reach an out-of-court settlement on Apple > Computer's lawsuit against NeXT. [110.99] > > March > * Silicon Graphics decides to switch from the Motorola 68000 processor > line to MIPS Technologies' RISC processors. [29] > > (month unknown) > * MIPS Technologies unveils the 8-MHz R2000 32-bit CPU. With 110,000 > transistors, it achieves a speed rating of 5 MIPS. [38.75] (1985 > [42.124]) > * MIPS Technologies begins volume shipments of the 8-MHz R2000 > processor. [29] > > June > * Systems incorporating MIPS Technologies' R2000 processor begin > shipping. [89.13] [187] > > > Although I'll probably take SGI's word for it. :) > > > Doc - Dan Wright (dtwright@uiuc.edu) (http://www.uiuc.edu/~dtwright) -] ------------------------------ [-] -------------------------------- [- ``Weave a circle round him thrice, / And close your eyes with holy dread, For he on honeydew hath fed, / and drunk the milk of Paradise.'' Samuel Taylor Coleridge, Kubla Khan From zmerch at 30below.com Tue Apr 2 13:50:27 2002 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:53 2005 Subject: Computers Manufactured in 1986 In-Reply-To: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E01784315@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.c om> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020402145027.01257660@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Christopher Smith may have mentioned these words: >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Roger Merchberger [mailto:zmerch@30below.com] > >> (under OS-9) 512K Ram, hacked easily to 2M (recently hacked >> to *64Meg*!!) > >Ok, when I get a CoCo 3, I want it to have 64M of RAM. How's >it done? :) http://home.wwdb.org/irgroup/nocan3b.html He's got it to 8Meg here, and said that 16Meg should be no problem... I could have sworn (albeit not with my life) that he had a proto running 64Meg, just to see if it could be done, but with a very quick perusal I couldn't find reference to it again... but I did find reference to RAMZilla, which didn't have a direct link, so I think that was associated with it somehow. Drat... but admittedly, *filling* 64Meg on a CoCo would be a chore in itself, unless you wanted one _big honkin'_ ramdrive. He's also got a wire-wrapped CoCo listed elsewhere on the page... Gotta get back to work, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. From red at bears.org Tue Apr 2 14:05:30 2002 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:53 2005 Subject: Computers Manufactured in 1986 In-Reply-To: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E01784316@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 2 Apr 2002, Christopher Smith wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Torquil MacCorkle III [mailto:torquil@rockbridge.net] > > > Which SGI would actually have an R2000? > > Um, none of them. IIRC, R3000 was the first chip that SGI > used from MIPS. There are other systems that use them, including > some (I have some r2ks, I think) made by MIPS, themselves. Nah, the IP4 and IP4.5 CPUs (as used in the 4D/50, /70, /80, and /85) were both R2000. The IP4 at 12.5 MHz, and the IP4.5 at 16. > An SGI from that period is something like the IRIS 2000, or > possibly by then IRIS 3000, which was very large and based > around a motorola 68k chip of some sort. Yes, the IRIS 2000-series were contemporary in 1986. The 3000-series (and 2000-series Turbo machines) were introduced right around or shortly after then. The 2000-series used MC68010 CPUs. I don't recall the clock rate off the top of my head, but I'd guess in the 8-12 MHz range. The 3000-series used an MC68020, at 16 MHz. Same as the Macintosh II. > Great machines, but they don't fit your relatively low power > requirement, and they're as large as your desk easily. :) Surely not quite that large, though I guess he might have a small desk. (; I have a 3130 (1987) in a fairly unrealistically 'large' configuration, and I don't think it draws any more than 7A at 120V. There are worse machines. It's there in the middle of this (poor) photograph, between two Onyx RE2s (1994) at the far end, and, at the near end, an AS/400 9406-500 (1997) and a Symbolics 3650 (1986). http://www.bears.org/~red/nowhere/house/hall-of-shame.jpeg ok r. From jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org Tue Apr 2 14:06:41 2002 From: jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org (James B. DiGriz) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:53 2005 Subject: Computers Manufactured in 1986 References: <000701c1da3f$e48f5cc0$e401a8c0@tegjeff.com> Message-ID: <3CAA0F51.5090206@dragonsweb.org> Douglas H. Quebbeman wrote: > > To the List: Was the AT&T 3B2 still being made in '86? If so, there's a > good choice for him. I even know where he could get one... > As a former user of killer.dallas.tx.us in '86 or thereabouts, I always wanted to get a 3b2, but it just never worked out for some reason, so I quit looking. I still have a copy of SvsV for the 3b2-300 (I think), though. Only a couple of the AT&T manuals, though. Speaking of Texas, the TI S1500 and the Explorer Lisp machine were both introduced in '86. Also the 1100, which was a '286 multiuser Xenix machine. Was the Sparc '86 or '87? jbdigriz From pat at cart-server.purdueriots.com Tue Apr 2 14:14:29 2002 From: pat at cart-server.purdueriots.com (pat@cart-server.purdueriots.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:53 2005 Subject: Apple IIe card In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Here's some quick ASCII art: +---------------------------------------+ | GPC | SW | | | _ _ _ ___ _---- _ _ | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |=| | |A| |C| |E| | | | | | | | | |=| | |_| |_| |_| | G | |H| | |I| | |=| | _ _ _ | | |_| | |_| | |=| | | | | | | | | | |_|=| | |B| |D| |F| |___| 519 | | |_| |_| |_| S/N026914 | |_________________ ___| ||||||||||||||||||| A - 74LS02 B - 74LS86 C - 74LS08 D - 74LS138 E - 74LS133 F - 74LS279 G - HN462732G EPROM, Label with GPC on it H - 74LS244 I - 74LS374 Bar between H+I is an "A102J" resistor pack (1kohm?) The header is next to I, right angle (pins parallel to board) Two rows of pins, total of 26 pins. SW is a 4-position SPST dip switch -- Pat On Tue, 2 Apr 2002, Tothwolf wrote: > On Tue, 2 Apr 2002 pat@cart-server.purdueriots.com wrote: > > > I've got a card out of an Apple IIe that has a bunch of 7400 chips on it, > > a 4-switch dip switch, a 26pin header, and an EPROM with a label that says > > "GPC" on it. The board also has "GPC" and "519" silk-screened on the > > comonent side and "Made in Taiwan R.O.C." on the solder side. Google > > doesnt seem to reveal anything useful. > > > > Any ideas what this is? > > Which chips does it have on it? The best guess I can come up with based on > the header, is a floppy disk or printer interface card. Also, how is the > header positioned on the board? > > -Toth > From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Apr 2 14:22:05 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:53 2005 Subject: OT: MS/Unisys Have Made My Day In-Reply-To: References: <3CA98DF4.26724.25B2EE73@localhost> Message-ID: > Wow. I ran "nmap" (-O option just scans for a platform >"signature") against that site yesterday and it was running FreeBSD for >sure. Now it's running XP Pro RC1 or RC2, and the page is completely >blank. > > Spin~!!!! > > Doc Now why would MS (or someone working for them) be running RC1 or RC2 rather than the release version of XP? Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From jcwren at jcwren.com Tue Apr 2 14:26:50 2002 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (John Chris Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:53 2005 Subject: Soldering and other skills (was Re: QL-Quality (Was: ZX-81 Question)) In-Reply-To: <200204021836.AA00426@proxima.ucsd.edu.UCSD.EDU> Message-ID: Cadmium?!? Say what? It's tin-antimony and tin-silver. http://environment.copper.org/e_p_lead.htm The deal is they're cadmium-FREE solders. http://misspiggy.gsfc.nasa.gov/ctre/act/techdocs/solder/leadfree.htm --John > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Carl Lowenstein > Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2002 13:37 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Soldering and other skills (was Re: QL-Quality (Was: ZX-81 > Question)) > > > > From: "Allison" > > To: > > Subject: Re: Soldering and other skills (was Re: QL-Quality > (Was: ZX-81 Question)) > > Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 08:40:54 -0500 > > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > > > From: Chad Fernandez > > >How much lead does solder dor electronics contain? I thought only > > >solder for pipes contained lead? > > > > The best alloy is 63/37 63%lead 37% tin. Common variety is 60/40. > > > > The lead is not a hazard by inhalation though some of the fluxes can be. > > It is a contact hazard over time as it can be transfered from the skin > > to lips and injested. Solution, wash hands after using. > > > > Solder for pipes, by mandate has been below 5% lead for years, it > > used to be mostly lead {90/10}. > > But the replacement for lead in plumber's solder is cadmium. And cadmium > is a pretty hazardous material itself. > > carl > -- > carl lowenstein marine physical lab u.c. san diego > clowenstein@ucsd.edu From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Apr 2 14:34:34 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:53 2005 Subject: The Future End of Classic Computing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 2 Apr 2002, Doc wrote: > > illegal copies (off the air) of copyrighted movies; Sony said that MOST > > VCR owners connect a camera and make home movies (porno?)) > If that _was_ Sony's view, the home-porn thing, it would be really > ironic. VCRs killed erotica-as-art dead as rocks in the US. Sony did NOT mention porn. That was my response to their premise that MOST VCR owners make movies. I sincerely doubt that a significant percentage of VCR owners owned video cameras. NOTE: that is changing with camcorders. "New policy: get the guy with the camcorder first." - Darryl Gates From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Apr 2 14:38:09 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:53 2005 Subject: Soldering and other skills (was Re: QL-Quality (Was: ZX-81 Question)) In-Reply-To: <000b01c1da7a$377d2c20$0100005a@phoenix> Message-ID: On Tue, 2 Apr 2002, Philip Pemberton wrote: > And some of the chemicals on that list: > Acetic acid (photographic stopbath) > Hydroquinone (photographic developer) monomethyl-P-aminophenyl sulfate paradihodroxybenzine > God-knows-what (photographic fixer) sodium thiosulfate > Acetone (nailvarnish remover) (also good for unsticking duper glue) > And if scraping my fingers (and cutting them) with solderjoints is as bad as > breathing in solder fumes, I should REALLY be dead by now... "should"? From csmith at amdocs.com Tue Apr 2 14:35:49 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:54 2005 Subject: Computers Manufactured in 1986 Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E01784319@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: r. 'bear' stricklin [mailto:red@bears.org] > Surely not quite that large, though I guess he might have a > small desk. (; Judging from the size of the Onyx's, I got the impression that the machine was about twice that size, but admittedly, I haven't seen many good photos of them. Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org Tue Apr 2 14:39:19 2002 From: jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org (James B. DiGriz) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:54 2005 Subject: The Future End of Classic Computing References: <000701c1da63$f1462c90$e401a8c0@tegjeff.com> Message-ID: <3CAA16F7.9020000@dragonsweb.org> Douglas H. Quebbeman wrote: > > > FYI... > > John Draper was arrested and convicted in Pennsylvania in '77 or '78 > for "possession of a device capable of defrauding the telephone company > of its rightful tarrifs". I met him on his journey back to the left coast after > he got out. > > The device in question? The Apple (autodialing) Modem, which he was > developing for Woz. > > Why? Well, Woz doesn't like to do too much in hardware; he always > like to minimize the logic design and use software to do the job > (a great philosphy for controllers, a louosy one for general purpose > computers). So rather than design the hardware to have fixed-frequency > tones, the software could determine the tones to be used. Of course, > that meant you could select the ESS interswitch "MF" tones instead of > DTMF. > > Today, virtually every modem with a Rockwell chipset has this feature. > > Has Rockwell been locked up? Unlikely... > > -dq > > > -Douglas Hurst Quebbeman (DougQ at ixsnayamspayIgLou.com) [Call me "Doug"] > Surgically excise the pig-latin from my e-mail address in order to reply > "The large print giveth, and the small print taketh away." -Tom Waits > > Woz made it to the East Coast and the Deep South once and gave a talk at an Apple UG meeting in our town. I managed to be there, and his collaboration with Draper on that modem, and precisely regarding those features, was one of his talking points. It certainly gave one something to think about. Of course, Operation Sundevil was ratcheting into high-gear at the time, which I was pretty much blithely unaware of, despite hanging out on some of the same boards with some of the same people that, well, you know. So it's a good thing I'm an honest fellow. There was this guy who claimed to be with Unisys called my board, for instance, who seemed desperate for me to set up a BBS with a shiny new Unisys 486 the company would provide for me to "beta-test" and demo. What was up with this? At the time, the big Unisys customers in the area were the local army base and a lot of banks, and we had already run into snags running the board from a buddy's house on post. I didn't want to look a gift horse in the mouth, and I gleaned a lot about Burroughs OS'es from him, but frankly, it smelled. I never did figure out what was going on with that, exactly, except that other people knew about it. jbdigriz From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Tue Apr 2 14:47:53 2002 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (Allison) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:54 2005 Subject: CP/M and Imsai Message-ID: <004501c1da87$aa97cdc0$3a7b7b7b@ajp> From: Don Caprio >I purchased an Imsai 8080 and would like to run some version of CP/M. >Should I stick with Imsai's IMDOS, which we know works? If CP/M is doable >What version would be the best choice? Cpm is doable on ANY 8080/8085/z80/z180/z280 machine with the minimum of: 20k of ram {16k for V1.4} Console IO device {serial, parallel or video} Some form of block addressable mass storage device {disk, tape or rom/ramdisk} Nice to have: Boot prom/eprom (doesnt have to be big) Second port for printer hard disk >Does CP/M need some sort of BIOS like the PC? If so where do I get the BIOS >source in order to burn an EPROM? CP/M does (invented) the idea of a bios but.... it is not resident firmware as in PCs. It's loaded at boot time from mass storage. A BIOS for the DISK CONTROLLER and CONSOLE IO may or may not exist depending on YOUR specific configuration. S100 system could vary a lot and were not anything close to plug and play. However, you could write your own bios and there are plenty of examples out there as well as the docs needed. Allison From doc at mdrconsult.com Tue Apr 2 14:51:41 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:54 2005 Subject: OT: MS/Unisys Have Made My Day In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 2 Apr 2002, Zane H. Healy wrote: > Now why would MS (or someone working for them) be running RC1 or RC2 rather > than the release version of XP? I dunno. But nmap is usually accurate, and I'm running a very recent release. ~# nmap -O www.wehavethewayout.com Starting nmap V. 2.54BETA31 ( www.insecure.org/nmap/ ) ^[[A^[[AInteresting ports on www.wehavethewayout.com (130.94.214.143): (The 1162 ports scanned but not shown below are in state: filtered) Remote operating system guess: Windows XP Professional Release Candidate 1 or 2 What's really odd is that port 5900 is open -- the usual port for VNC's http clients. VNC is an opensource remote desktop app a la Exceed. You can run the client as a stand-alone app or in a browser. There are a LOT of open ports I wouldn't expect on a webserver. But then, this IS MicroSoft. Doc From marvin at rain.org Tue Apr 2 14:54:57 2002 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:54 2005 Subject: RJ-45 Sockets/Covers/??? References: <000701c1da63$f1462c90$e401a8c0@tegjeff.com> <3CAA16F7.9020000@dragonsweb.org> Message-ID: <3CAA1AA1.987FE924@rain.org> I'm not sure what to call these things, but they are the covers for electrical boxes. There are a total of six covers, two with 2 RJ-45 connectors and four with 1 RJ-45 connector. Each of the RJ-45 connectors have 8 pins, and these are the covers used when wiring up a house/office/??? for a network. $5.00 plus shipping for all. From vance at ikickass.org Tue Apr 2 15:02:02 2002 From: vance at ikickass.org (Sridhar the POWERful) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:54 2005 Subject: Computers Manufactured in 1986 In-Reply-To: <200204020421.g324LRY20571@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 1 Apr 2002, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > What are some good old computers manufactured in 1986? > > Well, since I don't think DEC was still making PDP-10's at that point, that > means you're limited to various PDP-11's, VAXen, and the Macintosh. IBM made a wide variety of good stuff back then. Peace... Sridhar From dquebbeman at acm.org Tue Apr 2 15:05:34 2002 From: dquebbeman at acm.org (Douglas H. Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:54 2005 Subject: Computers Manufactured in 1986^H^H56 Message-ID: <000501c1da8a$260ad270$c3eeffcc@Shadow> > > > From: Ben Franchuk [mailto:bfranchuk@jetnet.ab.ca] > > > > > Now do you one with or with out TUBES? > > > Looking a list here http://members.iinet.net.au/~dgreen/timeline.html > > 1956 was a great year for TUBE computers. > > 1960 was a great year Transistor computers. ( Hmm I could get a PDP-1 ) > > I suppose to commemorate my birth, I'll need to get an S-100 box > of some sort, or possibly: > "DECStation" > PDP-11/60A > VAX-11/780 (...but what would I run on it? It would have to be > RSTS/E, since VMS 1.0 hadn't been released, probably.) I was looking at VMS manuals sometime in 1978... we were evaluating the HP3000, Prime 550, VAX 11/780, and DG Eclipse (Campus Computer Usage Committee). Prime one. Well, for a birthyear computer, anyone know where I can find a slightly-used IBM 709? I used to have the IBM 711 Card Reader and 716 Line Printer... -dq From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Apr 2 15:09:51 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:54 2005 Subject: Computers Manufactured in 1986 In-Reply-To: <3CA9E424.6030700@cnonline.net> Message-ID: <20020402210951.28855.qmail@web20103.mail.yahoo.com> --- Ron Hudson wrote: > > Anybody got a spare ENIAC ? I think I left it in my jeans pocket and it shrank in the wash... ;-) > Perhaps an abacus? Several. Software Results used to give out a "People Who Count" award. You got your name added to the plaque in the front office, your own mounted abacus to stick on your own wall, and a cash bonus. I have the box with the last two or three abacuses - mixed red and black beads. I also have a slide rule mounted on a board over my door that says IN CASE OF EMERGENCY... Yes, I know how to use both. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://http://taxes.yahoo.com/ From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Apr 2 15:19:31 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:54 2005 Subject: Special debugging techniques (was RE: Shoddy Hardware) In-Reply-To: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E260BDC@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> Message-ID: <20020402211931.37239.qmail@web20102.mail.yahoo.com> --- Christopher Smith wrote: > I still maintain the usefulness of runestones, incense, and rituals > involving chant and the drawing of "signs of power" around the device. I have this unfinished craft project - a "debugging aid" - take a craft gourd (dried and hollow), insert a few teaspoons of clipped out resistors, capacitors and transistors, close up. Paint exterior with bright red, bone white and gloss black enamel paint. Add a few leather thongs with pony beads to the small end of the gourd, and attach red and black turkey feathers to the loose end of the thongs. Place on a shelf and remove when doing serious debugging, shaking it at the screen*. Best done in the presence of witnesses. When the solution to the problem at hand is discovered, especially if it's a few critical magic words, 40-80 chars at most, inscribe along the body of the gourd with a white "paint marker", in a spiral, starting at the blunt end, as a reminder for next time. If the witness asks what you are doing, just casually reply, "debugging". I have the gourd. I have the paint. I have the beads. I have the thong. I have the discrete components. They have yet to reach proximity. Too busy coding. ;-) -ethan * chanting optional __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://http://taxes.yahoo.com/ From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Apr 2 15:25:57 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:54 2005 Subject: Computers Manufactured in 1986 In-Reply-To: <200204020421.g324LRY20571@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <20020402212557.32263.qmail@web20103.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Zane H. Healy" wrote: > > What are some good old computers manufactured in 1986? > > Well, since I don't think DEC was still making PDP-10's at that point, > that means you're limited to various PDP-11's, VAXen, and the Macintosh. DECmate? I think the DM-III(+) was sold until 1994. I'd have to look up what model was contemporary to 1986; I'd guess the DECmate-II. The question is, though, is this thread about computers you could walk down the street and _buy_ in 1986, or ones that were _introduced_ in 1986? The second is a much smaller list, naturally. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://http://taxes.yahoo.com/ From vance at ikickass.org Tue Apr 2 15:25:30 2002 From: vance at ikickass.org (Sridhar the POWERful) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:54 2005 Subject: Computers Manufactured in 1986 In-Reply-To: <20020401215848.A19335@eskimo.eskimo.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 1 Apr 2002, Derek Peschel wrote: > > Pardon the ignorance here, > > > > But which would you guys consider to be the most modernly functional one > > of the 1986 bunch? > > Well, some of them are ancestors of modern machines -- the Mac II of the > modern Macs, the Kaypro 2000 of modern PC clones (I believe), and the > RS/6000 of modern IBM UNIX workstations. So you could choose the most > compatible ones. Modern IBM UNIX workstations *are* RS/6000's. The RS/6000 wasn't out back then. The IBM RT/PC was the UNIX workstation from IBM at the time. PEace... Sridhar From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Apr 2 15:34:53 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:54 2005 Subject: "New" PDP-8 In-Reply-To: <005601c1d9d7$12922c10$7ded9a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <20020402213453.34647.qmail@web20106.mail.yahoo.com> --- ajp166 wrote: > From: Ethan Dicks > >What else would be "useful" from a DECmate board? I agree about > > > Depends on if it's a DMII or DMIII. Fair enough. > The dmII had less integration so the 6120, eproms and likely a 6121 plus > UARTs are available. The EPROMs themselves are not worth recycling (from the standpoint that they are more valuable with DM firmware than as ordinary blanks). The contents might be worth archving (not that they aren't already). I was asking the question from the perspective of what's worth the effort to tear out of a DECmate that you can't get elsewhere, easier, not so much from the standpoint of what's in a DECmate that you could find _some_ use for. I was kinda trying to point out that desoldering a DECmate after robbing the CPU is a less than satsifying activity, but I was not trying to _insist_ that it was so. The UARTs are 6402s, right? Not an uncommon chip outside of the Wintel world. Still available in quantity, AFAIK. Would the 6121 have any application outside of a DECmate? It's part of the wierd console emulation on the DM, isn't it? > The DMIII it will be the 6120 and maybe a 6121 plus 2882 and the eproms, > though I'm less sure as it's been a long time since I've had to open one. What's the 2882 do? -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://http://taxes.yahoo.com/ From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Tue Apr 2 15:46:20 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:54 2005 Subject: Vector brochure Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020402164620.00805410@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Does anybody want a 1976 brochure from vector? I'd prefer that it go to someone that will scan it and post it on the net. The brochure is six pages long and covers the well known S-100 vector boards, Slit-N-Wrap tools, ribbon cable making tools and other computer building goodies from 1976 and includes prices. there's also a price change sheet dated 1978. Picture at . Joe From mcguire at neurotica.com Tue Apr 2 15:37:27 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:54 2005 Subject: Computers Manufactured in 1986 In-Reply-To: RE: Computers Manufactured in 1986 (Christopher Smith) References: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E260BDD@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> Message-ID: <15530.9367.835362.814516@phaduka.neurotica.com> On April 2, Christopher Smith wrote: > AT&T Unix PC. 512k to 4M of ram [usually 1M], 40 to 60M hard drive, > all in one system with a monochrome green screen, removable keyboard, > and 3 button mouse. It also had a 5.25" floppy. It ran Unix SystemV > R 3.0 or 3.5, I vaguely remember a port of some other system to run > on it. Check some of the web pages you can find. There was a built > in graphical windowing system, dynamically loadable drivers, and if > you could get the ethernet board, or extra serial ports, you could > run multi-user configurations. It could read/write (through special > bundled software) MS-DOS disks, and there was also a DOS board for it > with an 8088 CPU or something like that, and some RAM to let it > actually run DOS, and DOS apps. What wonderful machines these are. The first ones, though, shipped with 10MB drives, not 40MB, and it was SYSVR2, not 3. I sold these machines at a computer store when I was in high school, and later had one of my own as my first real UNIX machine. Stupidly I sold it many years ago. Thanks to the assistance of a fellow lister (hi Mark!) I finally have one now, which I will keep forever. -Dave -- Dave McGuire "...it's leaving me this unpleasant, St. Petersburg, FL damp feeling on my shorts..." -Sridhar From bill_mcdermith at yahoo.com Tue Apr 2 15:53:04 2002 From: bill_mcdermith at yahoo.com (Bill McDermith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:54 2005 Subject: Computers Manufactured in 1986^H^H56 References: <000501c1da8a$260ad270$c3eeffcc@Shadow> Message-ID: <095401c1da90$c80a0450$9101a8c0@mn> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Douglas H. Quebbeman" To: "ClassicCmp List" Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2002 2:05 PM Subject: RE: Computers Manufactured in 1986^H^H56 > ...snip...snip...snip... > > I suppose to commemorate my birth, I'll need to get an S-100 box > > of some sort, or possibly: ...snip...snip...snip > > Well, for a birthyear computer, anyone know where I > can find a slightly-used IBM 709? I used to have the > IBM 711 Card Reader and 716 Line Printer... > > > > -dq > Birth year computers.... Hmmm. Well, I guess I'll have to look up the info on the IBM 650... Larger than a breadbox? (heh... :-) A desk? (must be, the 1130 I used was large desk sized but twice as tall...) A house? (more like it, I'm sure...) But wait! www.google.com enter IBM 650 and the first link is great: http://www.users.nwark.com/~rcmahq/jclark/ibm650.htm Heck, I could fit one in my garage -- it couldn't weigh more than a few tons... Just need room for the O26 keypunch... And have a larger electrical service put in... I'm sure someone has one in their back yard that they would want to get rid of... Bill From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Apr 2 15:53:21 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:54 2005 Subject: PCB vs perfboard construction economics (was Re: "New" PDP-8) In-Reply-To: <3CA8F36D.8FBE1623@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <20020402215321.59341.qmail@web20110.mail.yahoo.com> --- Ben Franchuk wrote: > Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > While I can recommend a real PCB if the setup costs and the per-sq-in > > costs are not killing you (price an Omnibus or Unibus-sized 4-layer > > board, complete with gold fingers!)... > > Out here the only parts store is Radio Shack or wait 6 months to get to > a larger city. Thus mail order and internet shopping works for me. Here in a city of 10E+06 people, about all we have left is Rat Shack, too. When I was a kid, there were lots of surplus places and new parts places to shop at (c. 1978). They've all gone mail-order and shut up their sales floors for cost reasons. I do most of my component shopping online these days (BG Micro, Mouser, Digikey, Allied...) > With wire wrap I would spend too much time hunting for bad > wires/connections or paying $$$ for parts. A PCB is a simple upload of > my gerber and drill files. Simple upload, yes, but for larger designs, it starts to get pricey again until you make things in quanity. I did several runs of a two- layer Zorro-II board (GG2 Bus+) - q. 100, they cost around $15-$20 each, including spreading out the setup charges. That's with a lot of gold (100-finger Zorro edge, plus a full 16-bit ISA edge), and a foot-long PCB. If only I hadn't ordered that last run of boards... :-( At q. 25, they were significantly more expensive. At q. 5, ISTR they were over $50 each. > > My last project is a good case-study for expense vs. time. I wanted to > > replicate a scoreboard from a Dragon's Lair/Space Ace... > > pictures at http://penguincentral.com/retrocomputing/retrogaming/ > > nice (see ps at bottom) Thanks. I am proud of it, even if it is a simple project. It is a one- for-one, mechanically sound replica of the original. I did the parts layout all from measuring digital pictures with a ruler. :-) > > ...I chose not to pay to register a > > demo-ware layout package so I could make a 6"x9" board. > > More like 3" x 4". Easytrax (dos) is still out there and runs fine (and > free) if you don't need autorouting. I think you missed my point... yes, the demoware packages let you lay out a 3"x4" board for free. Because of existing mounting holes and the physical area needed to contain several rows of 7-segment displays, my board needed to be about 6" x 9". For this and other classic projects I'm working on, 3"x4" does _not_ cut it. I am planning on things like DEC quad and hex-height boards - measured in square feet, effectively, instead of square inches (~0.8 sq ft - ~1.5 sq ft) To make one, it's physically cheaper to buy a surplus DEC prototype board and WW it. To make 5, PCBs start to look real good, even if they are $200 for a multi- layer, gold-edged, foot-square board. > > If I were to > > make the new PDP-8 design that kicked off this whole thread, I'm not > > sure if I'd get professional boards (~$200/set, in small quantities, > > according to the designer, for a couple of 4-layer boards) or I'd > > point-to-point it. > > Is 4 layer boards really needed? It's handy for signal isolation, and that's the design that Bob did the layout for. All of the professional Qbus and Unibus boards I've worked on in the past were 4 or 6 layer designs for good reason. You can only cram things in so tight in two layers. If you are going to go for an integrated computer on a 4"x6" board using DIP components, you'll be looking at 4 layers before you know it. If you increase the size of the board and keep things under 8MHz, 2 layers (and a sensible layout) will probably be fine. A 1MHz 6502 design will probably not require multi-layer unless you want it the size of a pack of playing cards. > I like the PDP-8 but am unhappy that a 12/24 cpu never hit the > monolithic chip market. That would have been fun. > Well I don't but remember with out the proper I/O a pdp-8 is NO FUN. True. I already know how to make a front panel pulse the lights. Driving a TTY is a lot more fun. > www.bgmicro.com > PS. Just after I finished writing this I looked up the scoreboard and > noticed you use BG micro already. Yep. Been a happy customer for years. Thinking of placing an order this week. Cheers, -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://http://taxes.yahoo.com/ From vance at ikickass.org Tue Apr 2 15:50:41 2002 From: vance at ikickass.org (Sridhar the POWERful) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:54 2005 Subject: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New" PDP-8)) In-Reply-To: <002601c1da44$c63b7060$e401a8c0@tegjeff.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 2 Apr 2002, Douglas H. Quebbeman wrote: > > > I do have one theory that applies to PCs and cars: If you fail to shed > > > blood and appease the gods, it will not work when you're done. > > > > Absolutely. Although Sridhar and I have discussed the possibility of > > offering up chicken blood instead.... > > Chris Smith and I were discussing repair techniques offline, and the > above were amongst the discussed techniques. > > However, I prefer erecting totems next to the troublesome devices... Do they have to be phallic? Huhhhuhuuuuuhuhuhuhuhuh, you said, "erect." Peace... Sridhar From r_beaudry at hotmail.com Tue Apr 2 22:02:00 2002 From: r_beaudry at hotmail.com (Rich Beaudry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:54 2005 Subject: IBM PS/1 Recovery/Install diskettes available Message-ID: Hello all, A bit too new to be on topic, but... I was scrounging through some stuff yesterday, and unearthed a set of original diskettes for an IBM PS/1. One of the disks is labelled "IBM PS/1 Recovery Diskette" There are 13 more diskettes labelled "IBM Original PS/1 Software, Diskette X of 13", where X of course goes from 1 to 13 :-) They are also labelled "Version 2.2" and the latest copyright date is 1993. If anyone wants these diskettes, first come, first served, no charge except shipping... I did test them by copying them onto my hard drive, so they are readable... Rich B. _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx From marvin at rain.org Tue Apr 2 16:14:45 2002 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:54 2005 Subject: VTech PreComputer 1000 References: Message-ID: <3CAA2D55.A3F76462@rain.org> In the continuing "search and destroy" mission, I have a VTech Pre Computer 1000 with the General Knowledge cartridge available for $5.00 plus shipping for 3 pounds from Santa Barbara, zip code 93105. This is just the computer and cartridge, or box or instructions. Priority Mail will run $5.20 in the US plus any insurance if you want it ($1.10) From vance at ikickass.org Tue Apr 2 16:20:34 2002 From: vance at ikickass.org (Sridhar the POWERful) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:54 2005 Subject: Strange idea in VAX Message-ID: Ok. I wonder what would happen if I stuck a DWBUA in the BI cage of my VAX 7000-650, and added a UNIBUS cabinet, then I were to take a Qniverter and add a Qbus framebuffer? Peace... Sridhar From csmith at amdocs.com Tue Apr 2 16:28:20 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:54 2005 Subject: Computers Manufactured in 1986 Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E0178434E@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Dave McGuire [mailto:mcguire@neurotica.com] > What wonderful machines these are. The first ones, though, shipped > with 10MB drives, not 40MB, and it was SYSVR2, not 3. I don't doubt the 10M disk, but I've never seen anything below 3.0 for it. I have 3.5 on mine, with a 3.0 dev kit. Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Tue Apr 2 16:34:32 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:54 2005 Subject: Computers Manufactured in 1986 References: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E01784315@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> Message-ID: <3CAA31F8.36568797@jetnet.ab.ca> Christopher Smith wrote: > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Roger Merchberger [mailto:zmerch@30below.com] > > > (under OS-9) 512K Ram, hacked easily to 2M (recently hacked > > to *64Meg*!!) > > Ok, when I get a CoCo 3, I want it to have 64M of RAM. How's > it done? :) Check Here! http://home.wwdb.org/irgroup/index.shtml -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From blacklord at telstra.com Tue Apr 2 16:40:07 2002 From: blacklord at telstra.com (blacklord) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:54 2005 Subject: Computers Manufactured in 1986 Message-ID: <2afc8c2b2699.2b26992afc8c@bigpond.com> > > Amiga. > And it's the best one (subjective) out of all the others so far mentioned. An A1000 can still happily run just about anything you can throw at it, plus it's emminently expandable. cheers, Lance ---------------- Powered by telstra.com From dpeschel at eskimo.com Tue Apr 2 16:47:23 2002 From: dpeschel at eskimo.com (Derek Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:54 2005 Subject: Computers Manufactured in 1986 In-Reply-To: ; from vance@ikickass.org on Tue, Apr 02, 2002 at 04:25:30PM -0500 References: <20020401215848.A19335@eskimo.eskimo.com> Message-ID: <20020402144722.A20636@eskimo.eskimo.com> On Tue, Apr 02, 2002 at 04:25:30PM -0500, Sridhar the POWERful wrote: > On Mon, 1 Apr 2002, Derek Peschel wrote: > > > Pardon the ignorance here, > > > > > > But which would you guys consider to be the most modernly functional one > > > of the 1986 bunch? > > > > Well, some of them are ancestors of modern machines -- the Mac II of the > > modern Macs, the Kaypro 2000 of modern PC clones (I believe), and the > > RS/6000 of modern IBM UNIX workstations. So you could choose the most > > compatible ones. > > Modern IBM UNIX workstations *are* RS/6000's. The RS/6000 wasn't out back > then. The IBM RT/PC was the UNIX workstation from IBM at the time. Someone mentioned RS/6000s and I just assumed that was right. Oops. -- Derek From coredump at gifford.co.uk Tue Apr 2 15:58:22 2002 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:54 2005 Subject: Pr1marily Contented (Longish) References: <003801c1d9fe$18727780$55efffcc@Shadow> Message-ID: <3CAA297E.D1C02D0F@gifford.co.uk> "Douglas H. Quebbeman" wrote: > Now that my Prime 2455 is fully operational again, ... > Ok, go for broke, swap in the remaining CPU board set, replace > newly-provided CPU board interconnects (top hats) with my old > ones... Thank you! Thank you! You've solved a twenty-year-old puzzle for me and all the other Prime hackers at Westfield College. You see, one day we were bored enough to read the Prime 750's log book (must've been a day when the power failed or something) and the Prime engineer had written the inscrutable: Rotated top hats Now, we didn't know what these gadgets were, but rotating them seemed to be crucial to making our beloved Prime work, so we just accepted it. Every time an engineer called, we'd look at each other and say "He's here to rotate the top hats again". Now, at last, we know what they are! Any chance of a photo? -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Tue Apr 2 16:55:05 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:54 2005 Subject: PCB vs perfboard construction economics (was Re: "New" PDP-8) References: <20020402215321.59341.qmail@web20110.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3CAA36C9.8A7384D1@jetnet.ab.ca> Ethan Dicks wrote: > > --- Ben Franchuk wrote: > > Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > > > While I can recommend a real PCB if the setup costs and the per-sq-in > > > costs are not killing you (price an Omnibus or Unibus-sized 4-layer > > > board, complete with gold fingers!)... > > > > Out here the only parts store is Radio Shack or wait 6 months to get to > > a larger city. Thus mail order and internet shopping works for me. > > Here in a city of 10E+06 people, about all we have left is Rat Shack, > too. When I was a kid, there were lots of surplus places and new > parts places to shop at (c. 1978). They've all gone mail-order and > shut up their sales floors for cost reasons. > > I do most of my component shopping online these days (BG Micro, Mouser, > Digikey, Allied...) > > > With wire wrap I would spend too much time hunting for bad > > wires/connections or paying $$$ for parts. A PCB is a simple upload of > > my gerber and drill files. > > Simple upload, yes, but for larger designs, it starts to get pricey > again until you make things in quanity. I did several runs of a two- > layer Zorro-II board (GG2 Bus+) - q. 100, they cost around $15-$20 each, > including spreading out the setup charges. That's with a lot of gold > (100-finger Zorro edge, plus a full 16-bit ISA edge), and a foot-long > PCB. If only I hadn't ordered that last run of boards... :-( At q. 25, > they were significantly more expensive. At q. 5, ISTR they were over > $50 each. But could you hand wrap 100 boards. In some ways the old PC's like the PDP-8 were more dence than today's computers, comparing the size of the active parts with the overall pc size.The wire wrapping of Flip/Chips made for some dense computers. > I think you missed my point... yes, the demoware packages let you lay > out a 3"x4" board for free. What is the point? I don't use the demo stuff. The ONE free PCB package for dos works well for me. > If you increase the > size of the board and keep things under 8MHz, 2 layers (and a sensible > layout) will probably be fine. A 1MHz 6502 design will probably not > require multi-layer unless you want it the size of a pack of playing > cards. If I remember the APPLE II/g? was the first computer to use really fine tracks for a PCB layout. It is the EDGE speed of your logic not the clock speed that determines your noise factor. Also a BIG board is easy for people who are all thumbs. > That would have been fun. Well I can sell the plans cheap... No I can't , they are free. > > Well I don't but remember with out the proper I/O a pdp-8 is NO FUN. > > True. I already know how to make a front panel pulse the lights. > Driving a TTY is a lot more fun. I don't have one, and PC emulating a terminal is no fun. > Yep. Been a happy customer for years. Thinking of placing an order > this week. But some parts you still need to get elsewhere. A 20 pin PLCC socket and IDC headers come to mind from my last project. -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From coredump at gifford.co.uk Tue Apr 2 15:58:22 2002 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:54 2005 Subject: Pr1marily Contented (Longish) References: <003801c1d9fe$18727780$55efffcc@Shadow> Message-ID: <3CAA297E.D1C02D0F@gifford.co.uk> "Douglas H. Quebbeman" wrote: > Now that my Prime 2455 is fully operational again, ... > Ok, go for broke, swap in the remaining CPU board set, replace > newly-provided CPU board interconnects (top hats) with my old > ones... Thank you! Thank you! You've solved a twenty-year-old puzzle for me and all the other Prime hackers at Westfield College. You see, one day we were bored enough to read the Prime 750's log book (must've been a day when the power failed or something) and the Prime engineer had written the inscrutable: Rotated top hats Now, we didn't know what these gadgets were, but rotating them seemed to be crucial to making our beloved Prime work, so we just accepted it. Every time an engineer called, we'd look at each other and say "He's here to rotate the top hats again". Now, at last, we know what they are! Any chance of a photo? -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Tue Apr 2 16:59:10 2002 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Carlini, Antonio) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:54 2005 Subject: Strange idea in VAX Message-ID: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC4706653F@exc-reo1.yagosys.com> > Sridhar the POWERful wrote: > >Ok. I wonder what would happen if I stuck a DWBUA in the BI cage of my >VAX 7000-650, and added a UNIBUS cabinet, then I were to take a Qniverter >and add a Qbus framebuffer? I imagine you'd be carted off to the funny farm :-) I assume you were not serious but just in case ... Your path to the Qbus widgets would be: LSB->XMI->BI->UNIBUS->QBUS which I suspect is a tad tortuous even for the normally well designed DEC stuff. Bus adapters generally only work well one bus down. Beyond that you start to hit timing issues and other such trivia such as locking. As an aside, surely with a little bit of thought you could get TURBOchannel and PCI involved in there? How hard can it be? Antonio From csmith at amdocs.com Tue Apr 2 16:59:27 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:54 2005 Subject: Computers Manufactured in 1986 Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E01784350@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: blacklord [mailto:blacklord@telstra.com] > And it's the best one (subjective) out of all the others so far > mentioned. An A1000 can still happily run just about anything you can > throw at it, plus it's emminently expandable. ... if you can find the expansions. :) Personally I like the Intergraph on my list. Never seen one, but if I had, I would own one by now. As for a more common system (more common than the Intergraph, not the Amiga), a UnixPC with 1 meg of ram, and maybe 60MB of disk will give you access to a really decent subset of available Unix (and possibly MS-DOS) software. It will also have a decent development environment, given the installation of a dev kit. On the other hand, the Atari ST plays quite a few more games. :) Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Apr 2 17:08:33 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:54 2005 Subject: Special debugging techniques (was RE: Shoddy Hardware) In-Reply-To: <20020402211931.37239.qmail@web20102.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Doesn't anybody use a rubber chicken anymore? From marvin at rain.org Tue Apr 2 17:11:37 2002 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:54 2005 Subject: BK Logic Probe, DP-21 References: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC4706653F@exc-reo1.yagosys.com> Message-ID: <3CAA3AA9.5898FA5E@rain.org> This is the BK Precision Logic Probe P/N DP-21. It is a 20 MHz unit, has seen VERY little use, is in excellent condition, and includes the original box and instructions! The current Digi-Key Catalogue price is $35.00 This one is only $10.00 plus $3.50 Priority Mail Shipping in the US. From doc at mdrconsult.com Tue Apr 2 17:13:29 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:54 2005 Subject: Computers Manufactured in 1986 In-Reply-To: <20020402144722.A20636@eskimo.eskimo.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 2 Apr 2002, Derek Peschel wrote: > Someone mentioned RS/6000s and I just assumed that was right. Oops. Not an unreasonable assumption. Some of mine _look_ 20 years old... Doc From donm at cts.com Tue Apr 2 17:18:52 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:54 2005 Subject: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New" PDP-8)) In-Reply-To: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E260BDC@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 2 Apr 2002, Christopher Smith wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Douglas H. Quebbeman [mailto:dquebbeman@acm.org] > > > Chris Smith and I were discussing repair techniques offline, and the > > above were amongst the discussed techniques. > > > However, I prefer erecting totems next to the troublesome devices... > > I still maintain the usefulness of runestones, incense, and rituals > involving chant and the drawing of "signs of power" around the device. Right! Just remember that when skill, cunning, and daring come face to face with luck and superstition, it is luck and superstition every time! - don > Chris > > > Christopher Smith, Perl Developer > Amdocs - Champaign, IL > > /usr/bin/perl -e ' > print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); > ' > > From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Apr 2 17:19:53 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:54 2005 Subject: Strange idea in VAX In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020402231953.70052.qmail@web20107.mail.yahoo.com> --- Sridhar the POWERful wrote: > > Ok. I wonder what would happen if I stuck a DWBUA in the BI cage of my > VAX 7000-650, and added a UNIBUS cabinet, then I were to take a Qniverter > and add a Qbus framebuffer? You'd probably get bus timeouts. Does the DWBUA work in a VAX 7000? I know it became an issue in machines newer than the 8800. I do not recall where it falls off the trolley. The tech manual for the DWBUA describes its requirement for Unibus boards. I presume that *if* the DWBUA works as expected in the 7000 to begin with, *and* the Qniverter doesn't violate any of the requirements of the DWBUA, it would work, if the device driver didn't mind being stuffed into an 18-bit backplane vs 22-bit (and the mapping registers being different, etc., from Qbus to Unibus). Analyzing how an RL11 vs an RLV21 is set up by the VMS driver might be an interesting exercise to see how it might behave. I presume the register model between those two controllers is virtually the same; the difference would be the buses and the mapping registers. So presuming the hardware didn't glitch, you might be able to make it work if the software doesn't throw a rod (or if you can modify/replace the driver). -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ From steven_j_robertson at hotmail.com Tue Apr 2 17:37:35 2002 From: steven_j_robertson at hotmail.com (Steve Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:54 2005 Subject: Pr1marily Contented (Longish) Message-ID: >From: "Douglas H. Quebbeman" >Reply-To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org >To: "ClassicCmp List" >Subject: Pr1marily Contented (Longish) >Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 23:23:03 -0500 > >Now that my Prime 2455 is fully operational again, I >want to thank everyone who offered advice here. After >giving up on repairing the power supply, I decided to >buy one. I assuming you don't need the one I have set aside? SteveRob _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. From bshannon at tiac.net Tue Apr 2 17:52:34 2002 From: bshannon at tiac.net (Bob Shannon) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:54 2005 Subject: Computers Manufactured in 1986 References: <000701c1da3f$e48f5cc0$e401a8c0@tegjeff.com> Message-ID: <3CAA4442.4FC9BC16@tiac.net> The Mac! Eeek. How about a nice Apollo workstation? "Douglas H. Quebbeman" wrote: > > > > Pardon the ignorance here, > > > > But which would you guys consider to be the most > > modernly functional one of the 1986 bunch? > > > > (What I am trying to do together here is get a setup of only stuff made in > > 1986.... It'd be neat to have a system exactly the same age as me :)) > > I do believe most of us had that figured out. > > This list isn't really about modern computers. But hands down, the > Macintosh would be the most modern of the bunch. Although it's > not color-capable, the user interface is has is what Bill Gates stole > from Apple and used to build Windows. So you'd be most at home > there. > > I've been a Mac advocate from the beginning, but for my own purposes, > computers with operating systems that provide a text-mode shell, such > as the *nixen and its derivitives, VMS, Primos, DOS, are preferable. As > someone with a tiny bit of a math background, the ability you gain with > a sophisticated command-line environment is great. In most of these > operating systems, you can string commands togther like factors in > an equation, and perform complex transformations on sets of files all > at once. Hard to do that with a Graphical User Interface. > > To the List: Was the AT&T 3B2 still being made in '86? If so, there's a > good choice for him. I even know where he could get one... > > -dq > > -Douglas Hurst Quebbeman (DougQ at ixsnayamspayIgLou.com) [Call me "Doug"] > Surgically excise the pig-latin from my e-mail address in order to reply > "The large print giveth, and the small print taketh away." -Tom Waits From geneb at deltasoft.com Tue Apr 2 19:08:08 2002 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:54 2005 Subject: Special debugging techniques (was RE: Shoddy Hardware) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hmmm. I thought you only needed one of those when posting to the Scary Devil Monestary... g. On Tue, 2 Apr 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > > Doesn't anybody use a rubber chicken anymore? > -- "I'm not crazy, I'm plausibly off-nominal!" http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Tue Apr 2 18:07:15 2002 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:54 2005 Subject: IBM PS/1 Recovery/Install diskettes available Message-ID: In a message dated 4/2/02 5:05:52 PM Eastern Standard Time, r_beaudry@hotmail.com writes: << A bit too new to be on topic, but... I was scrounging through some stuff yesterday, and unearthed a set of original diskettes for an IBM PS/1. >> do you know what model PS/1? old computers, old cars and sundry items www.nothingtodo.org From doc at mdrconsult.com Tue Apr 2 18:10:10 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:54 2005 Subject: Computers Manufactured in 1986 In-Reply-To: <3CAA4442.4FC9BC16@tiac.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 2 Apr 2002, Bob Shannon wrote: > The Mac! > > Eeek. Well, after watching one of my friends fight with a G4 running MacOS 9.1 Saturday, just to bid on some eBay stuff, I understand better why the early Macs are so revered. AFAICT, Apple is still trying to get back to that level of functionality. I'm folding my tent, dousing the fire, and marching double-time now. Doc From dquebbeman at acm.org Tue Apr 2 18:27:28 2002 From: dquebbeman at acm.org (Douglas H. Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:54 2005 Subject: Computers Manufactured in 1986 Message-ID: <000501c1daa6$599667a0$c3eeffcc@Shadow> > > The Mac! > > Eeek. > > How about a nice Apollo workstation? D'Oh! Yeah, what he said, too... -dq From dquebbeman at acm.org Tue Apr 2 18:35:52 2002 From: dquebbeman at acm.org (Douglas H. Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:54 2005 Subject: (Private, To SteveRob, Using List, Direct Contact Fails) Message-ID: <000b01c1daa7$85f00da0$c3eeffcc@Shadow> > >From: "Douglas H. Quebbeman" > >Reply-To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > >To: "ClassicCmp List" > >Subject: Pr1marily Contented (Longish) > >Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 23:23:03 -0500 > > > >Now that my Prime 2455 is fully operational again, I > >want to thank everyone who offered advice here. After > >giving up on repairing the power supply, I decided to > >buy one. > > I assuming you don't need the one I have set aside? Steve- You're one of several listers with whom it appears I have read-only contact with. My replies never seem to get through. If your PSU is a TLA10113-001, no, I don't need it; OTOH, if it's a 7778, then I *might* be interested, they are apparantly rather rare now. They put out the +/- 16VDC used by the older memory cards. There will come a day when someone will need one, and no more will be found. Can you at least check the numbers on it for me, so I can make an intelligent decision? Ok, then at least an *informed* decision... ;) -dq From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Apr 2 16:25:04 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:54 2005 Subject: PCB vs perfboard construction economics (was Re: "New" PDP-8) In-Reply-To: <3CA8F36D.8FBE1623@jetnet.ab.ca> from "Ben Franchuk" at Apr 1, 2 04:55:25 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1122 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020402/f7e60bbd/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Apr 2 16:03:03 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:54 2005 Subject: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New" PDP-8)) In-Reply-To: <20020402003216.BBNS21410.tomts14-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> from "jpero@sympatico.ca" at Apr 1, 2 07:33:55 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 423 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020402/500a05a7/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Apr 2 16:05:03 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:54 2005 Subject: Soldering and other skills (was Re: QL-Quality (Was: ZX-81 Question)) In-Reply-To: <200204012043.VAA03815@citadel.metropolis.local> from "Stan Barr" at Apr 1, 2 09:43:58 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 608 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020402/ab5fbf1b/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Apr 2 16:10:48 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:54 2005 Subject: 6809 single board computer (was: "New" PDP-8) In-Reply-To: <200204012050.VAA03905@citadel.metropolis.local> from "Stan Barr" at Apr 1, 2 09:50:27 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1535 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020402/5c75652a/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Apr 2 16:40:49 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:54 2005 Subject: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New" PDP-8)) In-Reply-To: from "John Chris Wren" at Apr 1, 2 11:24:03 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 886 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020402/4b327427/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Apr 2 16:44:50 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:54 2005 Subject: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New" PDP-8)) In-Reply-To: <20020401.195249.-333301.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> from "jeff.kaneko@juno.com" at Apr 1, 2 07:52:48 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 492 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020402/82e63271/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Apr 2 17:26:54 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:54 2005 Subject: The Future End of Classic Computing In-Reply-To: <007501c1da11$4eb70140$7685d642@Smith.earthlink.net> from "Wayne M. Smith" at Apr 1, 2 10:40:40 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1601 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020403/05f06217/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Apr 2 17:45:08 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:54 2005 Subject: 2016 (was: ZX81 and 6116) In-Reply-To: <3CA9DFFF.12014.22CDDC7F@localhost> from "Hans Franke" at Apr 2, 2 04:44:47 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 169 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020403/c607fe1d/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Apr 2 18:32:31 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:54 2005 Subject: Apple IIe card In-Reply-To: from "pat@cart-server.purdueriots.com" at Apr 2, 2 03:14:29 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1143 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020403/a7d65786/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Apr 2 18:08:40 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:54 2005 Subject: Computers Manufactured in 1986 In-Reply-To: <0a3c01c1da77$555f8010$0200a8c0@tm2000> from "Torquil MacCorkle III" at Apr 2, 2 01:50:54 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 628 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020403/f236c734/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Apr 2 18:14:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:55 2005 Subject: Soldering and other skills (was Re: QL-Quality (Was: ZX-81 Question)) In-Reply-To: <000b01c1da7a$377d2c20$0100005a@phoenix> from "Philip Pemberton" at Apr 2, 2 08:01:37 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1430 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020403/e2a426ae/attachment.ksh From dquebbeman at acm.org Tue Apr 2 18:43:14 2002 From: dquebbeman at acm.org (Douglas H. Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:55 2005 Subject: Pr1marily Contented (Longish) Message-ID: <001101c1daa8$8e23db40$c3eeffcc@Shadow> > "Douglas H. Quebbeman" wrote: > > Now that my Prime 2455 is fully operational again, > ... > > Ok, go for broke, swap in the remaining CPU board set, replace > > newly-provided CPU board interconnects (top hats) with my old > > ones... > > Thank you! Thank you! You've solved a twenty-year-old puzzle > for me and all the other Prime hackers at Westfield College. > You see, one day we were bored enough to read the Prime 750's > log book (must've been a day when the power failed or something) > and the Prime engineer had written the inscrutable: > > Rotated top hats > > Now, we didn't know what these gadgets were, but rotating them > seemed to be crucial to making our beloved Prime work, so we > just accepted it. Every time an engineer called, we'd look at > each other and say "He's here to rotate the top hats again". > > Now, at last, we know what they are! Any chance of a photo? heh, believe it or not, there are two different, unreleated things called "top hats" in some Primes... In my 2455, at the top, underneath the removable top skin, is a small +/- 12VDC power supply, called the "top hat PSU". But the 750 wouldn't have had those... in the link below, they are the three small rectangular vertically arranged; my 2455's boards run vertical in the cage: http://members.iglou.com/dougq/p2455/ICS&Cipher.html OTOH, in the 750, the boards went in horizontally, so you'd have seen the top hats left-to-right (at least that's how they were in the P400 and the P650). Glad I could help! Regards, -doug q From blacklord at telstra.com Tue Apr 2 18:52:56 2002 From: blacklord at telstra.com (blacklord) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:55 2005 Subject: Computers Manufactured in 1986 Message-ID: <2b58452b4ea5.2b4ea52b5845@bigpond.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: Gary Hildebrand Date: Wednesday, April 3, 2002 3:52 am Subject: Re: Computers Manufactured in 1986 > You forgot the first Amiga (1000)! And the commodore 64, Plus 4, and > commodore 16. > > The C64 was released in 1982 (20 this year!, The Plus/4 & C16 were (I think) 1984, so none of those qualify. The A1000 does though.... cheers, Lance ---------------- Powered by telstra.com From red at bears.org Tue Apr 2 19:07:54 2002 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:55 2005 Subject: 3600 & 3640 at SRI surplus auction through 4/5 Message-ID: Spotted on another list. Reply to Mabry directly. ok r. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 16:10:51 -0800 From: Mabry Tyson Reply-To: slug@AI.SRI.COM To: "slug@ai.sri.com" Subject: [SLUG] 3600 & 3640 at SRI surplus auction through 4/5 I just wandered through SRI's surplus auction. They've got a 3600 (s/n 583) and 3645 there, each very full of cards. Honestly, I don't know whether they work or not. These were machines that were government owned machines that are being auctioned off. I didn't notice any cables, monitors, keyboards, or mice with them. The auction ends on the 5th. If you want to bid, let me know and I'll give you further info, but I won't bid for you. From donm at cts.com Tue Apr 2 19:08:18 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:55 2005 Subject: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New" PDP-8)) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 2 Apr 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > > If find a peecee screw that is still chewing or "seizing up" touch > > bit of oil to the thread. Fixed for good. > > Running a tap down the threaded hole and a die (correctly adjusted) over > the screw works wonders as well. Of course it's better to buy good > quality screws in the first place, but it's not always possible to > replace the hole (particularly not if it's in a PC case or a disk drive, > or something. > > -tony An approach that I find to be of value in preserving the tapped holes in sheet metal is to insert the screw and rotate the screwdriver in the `unscrew' direction until I feel the screw thread drop into the thread in the sheet metal. Only then do I rotate the screwdriver in the `tighten' direction. This pretty well eliminates cross-threading and ultimately stripping out the hole. Also, remember that it is only sheet metal, so don't tighten too much. - don From donm at cts.com Tue Apr 2 19:10:22 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:55 2005 Subject: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New" PDP-8)) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 2 Apr 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > > > > I've been building PCs since XTs came out, and I cannot think of a single > > time that I've reamed out a screw, with the exception of one of those very > > fine pitch thread screws the CDROM manufacturers seem to like. If you're > > re-threading the hole everytime, perhaps you should take it a little easier > > on the poor PC case :-) > > I've found it often helps to turn the screw 'backwards' > (counterclockwise) until you feel the threads click into place, then > tighten it. > > In the case of self-tapping screws it generally pervents the screw from > starting a new thread (which, if done enough times means there's no metal > left). In the case of large-diameter fine pitch threads (like lens > retaining rings in cameras, OK, off-topic, but I can't think of such a > thread in a computer), it helps prevent cross-threading. > > I assumed this trick was well-known, but perhaps not. > > -tony > Sheesh! I should have read one more message! - don From notwax at yahoo.com Tue Apr 2 19:46:27 2002 From: notwax at yahoo.com (Wayne Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:55 2005 Subject: The Future End of Classic Computing In-Reply-To: <200204021203.HAA05973@wordstock.com> Message-ID: <20020403014627.2137.qmail@web13003.mail.yahoo.com> --- Bryan Pope wrote: > And thusly Wayne M. Smith spake: > > > > > > > > DeCSS was a huge red herring. It was > originally developed to _watch_ > > > DVD movies, not _copy_ them. > > > > The reason why something is developed is really > not that relevant to how it may ultimately be used > -- we (the US) build weapons of > > mass destruction as a deterrent to keep the peace, > but they're clearly capable of great evil. If > you're referring to the that DeCSS > > was developed because there was no Linux DVD > player, this story is apocryphal. DeCSS is a > Windows-only executable file; there never > > was a Linux version, and the claim that it was > developed as a Windows file because Linux didin't > support the DVD file structure is > > nonsense. Moreover, if you need the windows OS to > decrypt a DVD, then you already have a computer that > can play the DVD. > > > > No no no! The source for DeCSS was released and a > Windows executable was made > from that.... T-shirts have even been made with the > source code printed on > them. > > Cheers, > > Bryan > > I guess I should have been a bit clearer. The DeCSS lawsuit was not about posting source code, but about posting a Windows executable version which was known as "DeCSS." As stated by 2600 Enterprises in its post-hearing brief: "Jon Johansen testified that . . . he wrote the program for Windows rather than for Linux in order to test it properly because Linux did not then support the UDF file system used on DVDs." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ From dquebbeman at acm.org Tue Apr 2 19:50:40 2002 From: dquebbeman at acm.org (Douglas H. Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:55 2005 Subject: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New" PDP-8)) Message-ID: <001701c1dab1$f9d077a0$c3eeffcc@Shadow> > > In the case of self-tapping screws it generally pervents the screw from > > starting a new thread (which, if done enough times means there's no metal > > left). In the case of large-diameter fine pitch threads (like lens > > retaining rings in cameras, OK, off-topic, but I can't think of such a > > thread in a computer), it helps prevent cross-threading. > > > > I assumed this trick was well-known, but perhaps not. > > > > -tony > > > Sheesh! I should have read one more message! > > - don I never am as clear in some of my posts as I'd like... The kind of screws I'm lamenting are cast, and cast poorly... I assume everyone knows what casting flash is... these screws have casting flash... when you thread them through, the sheet metal eats at the flash, and you get metal bits from that, and at the same time, the part of the flash that doesn't come off quickly reams the sheet metal to death. *Buy* quality screws? There is an advertisement showing here in the U.S. Midwest for an office supply firm. The scene is set in a "typical" office... some shirts are having a meeting, when another shirt comes in and asks if "can we use the pen"? THE pen. The only pen in the office. When I need a screw for a PC, I typically have to find a PC from which to remove a screw. Everything ends up with half the screws it was designed to use. Now, we just bought 25 Dells that don't use very many screws. Where oh where will I get a screw when I need one? -dq From jrkeys at concentric.net Tue Apr 2 18:57:47 2002 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:55 2005 Subject: New Finds today and HELP needed on Apple card Message-ID: <000201c1dab4$ca964a20$8a000240@default> Today was busy at doing a auction most of the morning and stopping at several thrift stores all afternoon. Below are some of my finds and a strange card. 1. Mac Performa 630CD (was $5.99) 2. Mac Performa 6110CD (was $7) 3. View-Master InteractiveVision console in the box it was used unit missing the VHS tape that comes with it. (was $18) 4. Laser 50 personal computer (was $2.92) 5. AT&T Globulyst 378TPC tower model 3348-4372 (was $8) 6. Two hp front cartridges (22706C and 22706M). (was 80 cent) 7. Where in Time is Carmen San Diego cartridge by Konami for the Nintendo NES in a box with a desk encyclopedia. (was 79 cent) 8. Six different CD's for the Panasonic 3 DO system. Looked all over store and asked the clerks if they had the game console. No Luck finding it there. (these were .99 to $1.99 each) 9. Several old monitors for $1 each. 10. Now this the card: It says in caps MOTOROLA M68HC05PGMR. One of the chips has a homemade label on it that says METER.MIK CKSUM BF73. There are 2 switches on one is a ON/OFF and the other looks like a reset switch. There is a number in bold white of 3189.Three wires are coming from one side and they are purple, blue, and black in color. It looks like some kind of EPROM burner to me? Anyone have info on this card? (was $1.99) From blacklord at telstra.com Tue Apr 2 20:11:19 2002 From: blacklord at telstra.com (blacklord) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:55 2005 Subject: Computers Manufactured in 1986 Message-ID: <2b94872bc677.2bc6772b9487@bigpond.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: Christopher Smith Date: Wednesday, April 3, 2002 8:59 am Subject: RE: Computers Manufactured in 1986 > ... if you can find the expansions. :) Fair bit of stuff still out (I have some strange ones in my own connection - for eg. a Xetec controller with an extra 2 mb ram & a weird hard disk connector that plugged into the A1000's expansion (Zorro) port - same co. used to make Centronics i/faces for VIC's & 64/128's) > As for a more common system (more common than the Intergraph, not the > Amiga), a UnixPC with 1 meg of ram, and maybe 60MB of disk will give > you access to a really decent subset of available Unix (and possibly > MS-DOS) software. It will also have a decent development environment, > given the installation of a dev kit. THe A2000UX from Commodore was fairly respecatble (though somewhat undersold), not sure what version of Unix it ran, have to dig up my old dealer brochures. > > On the other hand, the Atari ST plays quite a few more games. :) > But the Miggy had more & in better quality :-) (And they're still being written for too.....) cheers, Lance ---------------- Powered by telstra.com From jcwren at jcwren.com Tue Apr 2 20:24:05 2002 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (John Chris Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:55 2005 Subject: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New" PDP-8)) In-Reply-To: <001701c1dab1$f9d077a0$c3eeffcc@Shadow> Message-ID: www.cyberguys.com, that's where. Buy a 100 pack for a couple of dollars, put in your "instant super-hero stash". Make yourself look like a genius, and your cow-orkers like the bumbling boobs they are. Also, order a couple of those 1' foot extension cords. For a dollar, it's a great way to keep a wall-wart from eating up more than one socket. More "looking like a genius" stuff. Remember, to the natives, any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. For a few dollars, you can be an impressive magician to the ignorant masses. --John > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Douglas H. Quebbeman > > Now, we just bought 25 Dells that don't use very many screws. > > Where oh where will I get a screw when I need one? > > -dq > > From doc at mdrconsult.com Tue Apr 2 20:26:12 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:55 2005 Subject: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New" PDP-8)) In-Reply-To: <001701c1dab1$f9d077a0$c3eeffcc@Shadow> Message-ID: On Tue, 2 Apr 2002, Douglas H. Quebbeman wrote: > When I need a screw for a PC, I typically have to find a PC > from which to remove a screw. Everything ends up with half > the screws it was designed to use. > > Now, we just bought 25 Dells that don't use very many screws. > > Where oh where will I get a screw when I need one? Heh. I worked at a university research lab that was that way. I finally decided that depending on them for incidental supplies like screws, thermal paste, and even floppy disks (for MY use at the lab, not for the lab's use) was more frustration than it was worth. I buy screws by the pound at the Goodwill or the used component shop, floppies by the hundred, and at the time, paste by the 2.5oz pot. Supplying that lab probably cost me $3 a month and kept me from beating the Director about the head and neck. Doc From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Apr 2 20:29:22 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:55 2005 Subject: New Finds today and HELP needed on Apple card In-Reply-To: <000201c1dab4$ca964a20$8a000240@default> from "John R. Keys Jr." at Apr 2, 2 06:57:47 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 778 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020403/956b6213/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Apr 2 20:34:11 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:55 2005 Subject: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New" PDP-8)) In-Reply-To: <001701c1dab1$f9d077a0$c3eeffcc@Shadow> from "Douglas H. Quebbeman" at Apr 2, 2 08:50:40 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1614 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020403/f7baac97/attachment.ksh From mythtech at mac.com Tue Apr 2 20:35:58 2002 From: mythtech at mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:55 2005 Subject: The Future End of Classic Computing Message-ID: >I guess I should have been a bit clearer. The DeCSS >lawsuit was not about posting source code, but about >posting a Windows executable version which was known >as "DeCSS." As stated by 2600 Enterprises in its >post-hearing brief: "Jon Johansen testified that . . >. he wrote the program for Windows rather than for >Linux in order to test it properly because Linux did >not then support the UDF file system used on DVDs." Um... can you explain then, if this is what the lawsuit was about, WHY it was deemed illegal to post or link to, copies of the SOURCE CODE for the DeCSS algorithm. After all THAT is what 2600 was arguing. They didn't disagree that an executable could be used to pirate a DVD. Nor did they flat out disagree that distributing it might not be such a hot idea... what they were fighting for, was the RIGHT to post and say anything you damn well please. If you stop people from posting source code, even if that source code when used serves no purpose other than to commit a crime... you are STILL crushing free speech. There should be no law to stop it... much as their should be no law stopping me from explaining in detail, if I so choose, how to commit murder and get away with it. There is no practical application for executing the knowledge of how to commit and get away with murder, but that doesn't mean that one should be stopped from sharing that knowledge. The moment someone puts the knowledge into use for illegal purposes... THAT is when the law should step up and prosecute someone. But since there are already laws in place that appear to cover the actual illegal activities... then things like the DMCA should just be repealed... they are redundant in places of stopping actual crime, and they cause things that should not be crimes, to now be listed as such. What amazes me is... it has been deemed in a court of law, that it is free speech and ok to publish detailed instructions on how to build an atomic bomb. But it is illegal to post instructions on how to play a DVD that I bought, on a computer that I bought, using an OS that I bought. You can't go around assuming that everyone, when given the chance, will be a criminal. Gee... NJ did that, and now they are 160 million in debt with their EZ-Pass system... why? Because they figured that they would be able to pay for the system from tickets issued to toll jumpers... but funny thing is, they have now found out the hard way, that 99% of the population of NJ is honest... and now the state is stuck with the bill to pay. -chris From jeff.kaneko at juno.com Tue Apr 2 22:44:33 2002 From: jeff.kaneko at juno.com (jeff.kaneko@juno.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:55 2005 Subject: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New" PDP-8)) Message-ID: <20020402.204434.-96547.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> On Tue, 2 Apr 2002 23:44:50 +0100 (BST) ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) writes: > > I think this started when we (the U.S.A.) began importing > > parts made in communist countries. > > Well, I spent most of the weekend inside a small East German camera, > > about 40 years old. > > I was seriously impressed by the general engineering (anyone who > makes a > leaf shutter that can do 1/750s gets my respect!), the build quality > and > the repairer-freindlyness of the design. I've found few cameras as > pleasant to repair. > > So not all communnist-country products are badly made... Actually, I should have specifically fingered Red China, which is the only communist country that is a major supplier to the U.S. I never saw real, unadulterated *junk* until I looked at what has been spewing from Red Chinese factories . . . Jeff ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. From doc at mdrconsult.com Tue Apr 2 21:11:19 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:55 2005 Subject: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New" PDP-8)) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 3 Apr 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > Have you tried running them into the appropriate size die (either 6-32 > UNC or M3, depening on which type of screw they are). Doing that normally > cleans up such threads. Tony, As hard as it may be to envision, I bet _most_ of the subscribers to this list do not own tap & die sets. Many probably own only one hammer, too. As a tool nut myself, I can't really grasp that concept, but I've come to accept it. Doc, who has a very sharp knife and a flashlight at all times, or did until September 11.... From dquebbeman at acm.org Tue Apr 2 21:21:42 2002 From: dquebbeman at acm.org (Douglas H. Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:55 2005 Subject: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New" PDP-8)) Message-ID: <001d01c1dabe$b0f4f710$c3eeffcc@Shadow> > But surely you have hardware shops that sell screws? Yes, but they require cash or credit... promises don't fly. > > in the U.S. Midwest for an office supply firm. The scene is > > set in a "typical" office... some shirts are having a meeting, > > when another shirt comes in and asks if "can we use the pen"? > > > > THE pen. The only pen in the office. > > Are you sure this is not some 3rd world country???? It often feels that way... Many firms have company credit cards. I think we grossed US$8M last year, and no such plastic exists in this firm, The 25 Dells that were bought? We have one employee who *loves* those points, rebates, and skymiles from large purchases. Then, he submits them for reimbursment. Yours Truly lives paycheck to paycheck and is running a monthly $100 deficit, that only the end-of-year bonus finally clears up. So, it's rare that I can purchase a needed item. I'm supposed to requisition it. Anything I buy that I don't get approved, I risk not being reimbursed. > > When I need a screw for a PC, I typically have to find a PC > > from which to remove a screw. Everything ends up with half > > the screws it was designed to use. > > Now many of my computers don't have any casing screws, but that's not > because I needed them for something else. It's because I want to be able > to work inside the machine. Well, yes, I have lots of those... my EPROM burner is a board in a 486 that lives sans-a-case... -dq From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Tue Apr 2 21:33:33 2002 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:55 2005 Subject: Unix on Amiga In-Reply-To: <2b94872bc677.2bc6772b9487@bigpond.com> from blacklord at "Apr 3, 2002 12:11:19 pm" Message-ID: <200204030333.g333XgxA088355@i4got.pechter.dyndns.org> > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Christopher Smith > Date: Wednesday, April 3, 2002 8:59 am > Subject: RE: Computers Manufactured in 1986 > > > ... if you can find the expansions. :) > > Fair bit of stuff still out (I have some strange ones in my own > connection - for eg. a Xetec controller with an extra 2 mb ram & a > weird hard disk connector that plugged into the A1000's expansion > (Zorro) port - same co. used to make Centronics i/faces for VIC's & > 64/128's) > > > > As for a more common system (more common than the Intergraph, not the > > Amiga), a UnixPC with 1 meg of ram, and maybe 60MB of disk will give > > you access to a really decent subset of available Unix (and possibly > > MS-DOS) software. It will also have a decent development environment, > > given the installation of a dev kit. > > THe A2000UX from Commodore was fairly respecatble (though somewhat > undersold), not sure what version of Unix it ran, have to dig up my old > dealer brochures. > Real SysVRel4 I assume... a friend of mine worked on it there for the A3000 IIRC. They started with the Real AT&T stuff and bought the source license. Bill From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Apr 2 21:45:38 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:55 2005 Subject: Computers Manufactured in 1986^H^H56^H^H66 In-Reply-To: <095401c1da90$c80a0450$9101a8c0@mn> Message-ID: <20020403034538.60493.qmail@web20109.mail.yahoo.com> --- Bill McDermith wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Douglas H. Quebbeman" > > Well, for a birthyear computer, anyone know where I > > can find a slightly-used IBM 709? I used to have the > > IBM 711 Card Reader and 716 Line Printer... > > > > Birth year computers.... > > Hmmm. Well, I guess I'll have to look up the info on the > IBM 650... > Larger than a breadbox? (heh... :-) > A desk? (must be, the 1130 I used was large desk sized > but twice as tall...) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Apr 2 21:46:59 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:55 2005 Subject: Computers Manufactured in 1986^H^H56^H^H66 In-Reply-To: <095401c1da90$c80a0450$9101a8c0@mn> Message-ID: <20020403034659.15324.qmail@web20107.mail.yahoo.com> --- Bill McDermith wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Douglas H. Quebbeman" > > Well, for a birthyear computer, anyone know where I > > can find a slightly-used IBM 709? I used to have the > > IBM 711 Card Reader and 716 Line Printer... > > > > Birth year computers.... > > Hmmm. Well, I guess I'll have to look up the info on the > IBM 650... > Larger than a breadbox? (heh... :-) > A desk? (must be, the 1130 I used was large desk sized > but twice as tall...) Oops... premature ejection... For 1966, I probably have the only birth-year computer I'm going to get - a PDP-8/S. Now all I need is a source of light bulbs to restore the front panel. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ From jpero at sympatico.ca Tue Apr 2 17:02:08 2002 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:55 2005 Subject: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New" PDP-8)) In-Reply-To: References: <001701c1dab1$f9d077a0$c3eeffcc@Shadow> from "Douglas H. Quebbeman" at Apr 2, 2 08:50:40 pm Message-ID: <20020403040027.GHWT17738.tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) > Subject: Re: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New" PDP-8)) > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 03:34:11 +0100 (BST) > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > The kind of screws I'm lamenting are cast, and cast poorly... > > > > I assume everyone knows what casting flash is... these screws > > have casting flash... when you thread them through, the sheet > > metal eats at the flash, and you get metal bits from that, and > > at the same time, the part of the flash that doesn't come off > > quickly reams the sheet metal to death. Casting isn't good for that small like screws., Maybe screws was clapped together in die halves squeezing out screws. That I not yet seen that kind YET except on bigger diameter threads and usually diecast. If true, that is truly crappiest parts ever heard of. I keep a 2L plastic jarful, many rolling around in many drawer bottoms of bolts, screws, nuts, washers of all kinds mixed with few odd and bits of parts. Almost 10lbs. Got them by culling parts from decent discards I find over the years. Cheers, Doubtful Wizard PS: Oh, Your dept who bought up that 25 dells made serious *mistake*. Only way dept can depend on them running w/ replacement parts is dell's especially their power supplies and few oddball boards. PSUs are totally non-standard pinouts. Oh, your dept also didn't choose AMD and let dell know everybody else wanted quality but flexible choices in different brands of CPUs instead of Intel-only. From jpero at sympatico.ca Tue Apr 2 17:02:08 2002 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:55 2005 Subject: Computers Manufactured in 1986^H^H56 In-Reply-To: <095401c1da90$c80a0450$9101a8c0@mn> Message-ID: <20020403040025.GHWJ17738.tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > > > I suppose to commemorate my birth, I'll need to get an S-100 box > > > of some sort, or possibly: > ...snip...snip...snip > > > > Well, for a birthyear computer, anyone know where I > > can find a slightly-used IBM 709? I used to have the > > IBM 711 Card Reader and 716 Line Printer... > > > > > > > > -dq Well, i add to this pot: My birth-year is 1972, in that era what typical 'puter small enough to fit on desk or on floor (tower) and easy to ship? Cheers Wizard From jpero at sympatico.ca Tue Apr 2 17:02:08 2002 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:55 2005 Subject: Aguh!! Where the 1MB x 1 SOJ or DIP pinout info!? In-Reply-To: <15530.9367.835362.814516@phaduka.neurotica.com> References: RE: Computers Manufactured in 1986 (Christopher Smith) Message-ID: <20020403040027.GHWN17738.tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Thanks very much! Gooogled without success. Basic FPM dram. Ditto to 4MB x 1bit as well Cheers, Wizard From jpero at sympatico.ca Tue Apr 2 17:09:02 2002 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:55 2005 Subject: Special debugging techniques (was RE: Shoddy Hardware) In-Reply-To: <20020402211931.37239.qmail@web20102.mail.yahoo.com> References: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E260BDC@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> Message-ID: <20020403040720.CZFW25090.tomts13-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > I have this unfinished craft project - a "debugging aid" - take a craft Wild ideas with gourd thing snipped... > -ethan > > * chanting optional LOL! Wizard From edick at idcomm.com Tue Apr 2 22:14:55 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:55 2005 Subject: CP/M and Imsai References: <200204021837.g32Ibv92020744@dcms.com> Message-ID: <005b01c1dac6$1c4a5da0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> This is the S-100 world you've entered, not the PC world. The BIOS doesn't go into an EPROM, and you don't buy the BIOS. If you can't find one written for your EXACT hardware environment, which you usually can't, you have to write it yourself. Then you have to incorporate it into a bootable image of CP/M and then find a way to propagate it onto a bootable diskette. That will require some study and some effort. Hopefully you're endowed with enogh free time and interested enough in the related tasks to get that done. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Caprio" To: Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2002 11:37 AM Subject: CP/M and Imsai > > > I'm new to this news group and the S-100 world so my appologies > in advance for what may be stupid or common knowledge questions. > > I purchased an Imsai 8080 and would like to run some version of CP/M. > Should I stick with Imsai's IMDOS, which we know works? If CP/M is doable > What version would be the best choice? > > Does CP/M need some sort of BIOS like the PC? If so where do I get the BIOS > source in order to burn an EPROM? > > Any help, pointers, URL's, etc wouldbe greatly appreciated. > > Thanks. > > From edick at idcomm.com Tue Apr 2 22:19:45 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:55 2005 Subject: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New" PDP-8)) References: Message-ID: <009601c1dac6$c91411c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> If you buy a tap, be sure it's a "roll-tap," which (a) doesn't cut the shavings you'll never get out, and (2) displaces the metal, thereby forming a better thread in what little sheet metal there is. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2002 3:03 PM Subject: Re: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New" PDP-8)) > > If find a peecee screw that is still chewing or "seizing up" touch > > bit of oil to the thread. Fixed for good. > > Running a tap down the threaded hole and a die (correctly adjusted) over > the screw works wonders as well. Of course it's better to buy good > quality screws in the first place, but it's not always possible to > replace the hole (particularly not if it's in a PC case or a disk drive, > or something. > > -tony > > From vaxman at earthlink.net Tue Apr 2 22:41:30 2002 From: vaxman at earthlink.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:55 2005 Subject: Ultrix root password In-Reply-To: <20020402131714.A315260@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: True, NetBSD would talk to it, but it would require NetBSD running on a uVAX II so the drive could be plugged in. I certainly don't have the patience to run NetBSD on a uVAX II, a wouldn't recommend anyone else do the same. Unfortunately, NetBSD (and FreeBSD) is rapidly becoming unusable on old hardware... clint On Tue, 2 Apr 2002, Jochen Kunz wrote: > On Mon, Apr 01, 2002 at 07:47:52PM -0700, Clint Wolff (VAX collector) wrote: > > > Easiest way is to attach the drive to a comparable machine running > > a Ultrix that you know the password too. Mount it, edit /etc/passwd, > > umount it, and re-install. > Netboot NetBSD, mount, edit, ... > NetBSD should be able to handle the 4.2BSD FFS of Ultrix. > At least it is worth a try if booting the Ultix/VAX to single > user mode don't work. > -- > > > > tschüß, > Jochen > > Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ > From wh.sudbrink at verizon.net Tue Apr 2 22:46:39 2002 From: wh.sudbrink at verizon.net (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:55 2005 Subject: CP/M and Imsai In-Reply-To: <005b01c1dac6$1c4a5da0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: > This is the S-100 world you've entered, not the PC world. The BIOS doesn't go > into an EPROM, and you don't buy the BIOS. If you can't find one written for > your EXACT hardware environment, which you usually can't, you have to write it > yourself. Then you have to incorporate it into a bootable image of CP/M and > then find a way to propagate it onto a bootable diskette. > > That will require some study and some effort. Hopefully you're endowed with > enogh free time and interested enough in the related tasks to get that done. You should add that it is a real kick when you finally get everything right and the sucker actually boots and works! All of my boxes that run CP/M run 2.2 built from the source found at the "unofficial CP/M web site": http://www.retroarchive.org/cpm/archive/unofficial/ Finding a build environment is left as an exercise for the reader. From vaxman at earthlink.net Tue Apr 2 22:47:47 2002 From: vaxman at earthlink.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:55 2005 Subject: RJ-45 Sockets/Covers/??? In-Reply-To: <3CAA1AA1.987FE924@rain.org> Message-ID: You can pick these up at the local home improvement center, but they cost a lot more than $5 :) On Tue, 2 Apr 2002, Marvin Johnston wrote: > > I'm not sure what to call these things, but they are the covers for > electrical boxes. There are a total of six covers, two with 2 RJ-45 > connectors and four with 1 RJ-45 connector. Each of the RJ-45 connectors > have 8 pins, and these are the covers used when wiring up a > house/office/??? for a network. $5.00 plus shipping for all. > From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Apr 2 22:56:44 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:55 2005 Subject: Computers Manufactured in 1986^H^H56 In-Reply-To: <20020403040025.GHWJ17738.tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: <20020403045644.23962.qmail@web20102.mail.yahoo.com> --- jpero@sympatico.ca wrote: > > > > I suppose to commemorate my birth, I'll need to get an S-100 box > > > > of some sort, or possibly: > > Well, i add to this pot: > > My birth-year is 1972, in that era what typical 'puter small enough > to fit on desk or on floor (tower) and easy to ship? PDP-8/M? Some early PDP-11 (/05?) Too early for the i4004. I do have this TI 980A with 1972 stamped on a couple of the boards... it's 19" wide, at least 10" tall and about 36" deep (about the same size as a PDP-8/F, maybe a couple of inches taller) kinda typical of machines of the day. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ From jpero at sympatico.ca Tue Apr 2 18:03:44 2002 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:55 2005 Subject: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New" PDP-8)) In-Reply-To: <009601c1dac6$c91411c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <20020403050202.GCXA27115.tomts16-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > From: "Richard Erlacher" > To: > Subject: Re: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New" PDP-8)) > Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 21:19:45 -0700 > Organization: Erlacher Associates > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > If you buy a tap, be sure it's a "roll-tap," which (a) doesn't cut the > shavings you'll never get out, and (2) displaces the metal, thereby forming a > better thread in what little sheet metal there is. Same thing if have decent self "roll-tap" screws saved for this purpose. If I need to form threads in chassis sheet, oil the screw and screw away with screwdriver. There's crappy roll-tap screws had been rolled using crappy metal or too brittle rod. This gives rough thread and cracks that makes shavings and can strip easily. Cheers, Wizard > > Dick From vance at ikickass.org Tue Apr 2 23:09:52 2002 From: vance at ikickass.org (Sridhar the POWERful) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:55 2005 Subject: Computers Manufactured in 1986^H^H56 In-Reply-To: <095401c1da90$c80a0450$9101a8c0@mn> Message-ID: On Tue, 2 Apr 2002, Bill McDermith wrote: > Birth year computers.... > > Hmmm. Well, I guess I'll have to look up the info on the > IBM 650... > Larger than a breadbox? (heh... :-) > A desk? (must be, the 1130 I used was large desk sized > but twice as tall...) > A house? (more like it, I'm sure...) > > But wait! www.google.com enter IBM 650 and the first link is great: > > http://www.users.nwark.com/~rcmahq/jclark/ibm650.htm > > Heck, I could fit one in my garage -- it couldn't weigh more than > a few tons... Just need room for the O26 keypunch... And have > a larger electrical service put in... I'm sure someone has one in > their back yard that they would want to get rid of... I think I know where you can get a 650. It won't be anything resembling cheap, though. Peace... Sridhar From acme_ent at bellsouth.net Tue Apr 2 23:13:41 2002 From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:55 2005 Subject: 2016 (was: ZX81 and 6116) Message-ID: <20020403051510.YBTK19878.imf22bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> > From: Hans Franke > So it looks as if ZX 81s are a good source to get 2016s ? Arrrrrrrrgggggggggghhhhhhhhh! Would you really trash a ZX81 to get a US$2.00 part which is commonly available??? If you decide to go through with such a plan, will you please save the leftover ZX81 parts? Certain parts of these things are becoming very hard to find. I'll pay the freight if you send them to me! If you don't want to send them out of Germany please give them to deserving ZX-TEAM members near you! Glen 0/0 From donm at cts.com Tue Apr 2 23:22:51 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:55 2005 Subject: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New" PDP-8)) In-Reply-To: <001701c1dab1$f9d077a0$c3eeffcc@Shadow> Message-ID: On Tue, 2 Apr 2002, Douglas H. Quebbeman wrote: > > > In the case of self-tapping screws it generally pervents the screw from > > > starting a new thread (which, if done enough times means there's no > metal > > > left). In the case of large-diameter fine pitch threads (like lens > > > retaining rings in cameras, OK, off-topic, but I can't think of such a > > > thread in a computer), it helps prevent cross-threading. > > > > > > I assumed this trick was well-known, but perhaps not. > > > > > > -tony > > > > > Sheesh! I should have read one more message! > > > > - don > > I never am as clear in some of my posts as I'd like... > > The kind of screws I'm lamenting are cast, and cast poorly... > > I assume everyone knows what casting flash is... these screws > have casting flash... when you thread them through, the sheet > metal eats at the flash, and you get metal bits from that, and > at the same time, the part of the flash that doesn't come off > quickly reams the sheet metal to death. It is also possible that they are stamped in ill-mating dies, which could provide the same result. - don > *Buy* quality screws? There is an advertisement showing here > in the U.S. Midwest for an office supply firm. The scene is > set in a "typical" office... some shirts are having a meeting, > when another shirt comes in and asks if "can we use the pen"? > > THE pen. The only pen in the office. > > When I need a screw for a PC, I typically have to find a PC > from which to remove a screw. Everything ends up with half > the screws it was designed to use. > > Now, we just bought 25 Dells that don't use very many screws. > > Where oh where will I get a screw when I need one? > > -dq > > > From vance at ikickass.org Tue Apr 2 23:27:14 2002 From: vance at ikickass.org (Sridhar the POWERful) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:55 2005 Subject: Strange idea in VAX In-Reply-To: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC4706653F@exc-reo1.yagosys.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 2 Apr 2002, Carlini, Antonio wrote: > > Sridhar the POWERful wrote: > > > >Ok. I wonder what would happen if I stuck a DWBUA in the BI cage > of my > >VAX 7000-650, and added a UNIBUS cabinet, then I were to take a > Qniverter > >and add a Qbus framebuffer? > > I imagine you'd be carted off to the funny farm :-) > > I assume you were not serious but just in case ... > Your path to the Qbus widgets would be: > LSB->XMI->BI->UNIBUS->QBUS > which I suspect is a tad tortuous even for > the normally well designed DEC stuff. Actually, I'm serious. 8-) But my original idea was to put a Qniverter in a PDP-11/70, write some custom software, and use one of the PDP-11 OSes. > Bus adapters generally only work well > one bus down. Beyond that you start > to hit timing issues and other such trivia > such as locking. Hmm. That sucks. > As an aside, surely with a little bit of > thought you could get TURBOchannel > and PCI involved in there? How hard > can it be? One thing that might be interested is to see if I can find a PCI hose for it, find source code for the PCI hose driver for a free OS (I'm pretty sure that there is one out there somewhere), and try to write a VMS driver for the PCI hose on OpenVMS/VAX? Then I could try to get a PCI framebuffer working, but then how would I go about attaching a keyboard and mouse? Peace... Sridhar From jcwren at jcwren.com Tue Apr 2 23:46:23 2002 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (John Chris Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:55 2005 Subject: 2016 (was: ZX81 and 6116) In-Reply-To: <20020403051510.YBTK19878.imf22bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> Message-ID: But *this* guy says Z80s are ultra rare! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2013734013 There are a number of good sellers on eBay. Then there are the complete twits like this that think the pretty piece of 40 legged plastic they pulled out of a dead box is "rare" because they've seen the word 'Zilog' before. I would *love* to see eBay install a filter that automatically removed the word "rare" from titles. And if it's so ultra rare, why didn't an enlightened collector snap it up at the bargain price of only $7.99? --John > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Glen Goodwin > Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2002 0:14 AM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: 2016 (was: ZX81 and 6116) > > > > From: Hans Franke > > > So it looks as if ZX 81s are a good source to get 2016s ? > > Arrrrrrrrgggggggggghhhhhhhhh! > > Would you really trash a ZX81 to get a US$2.00 part which is commonly > available??? > > If you decide to go through with such a plan, will you please save the > leftover ZX81 parts? Certain parts of these things are becoming very hard > to find. I'll pay the freight if you send them to me! If you don't want > to send them out of Germany please give them to deserving ZX-TEAM members > near you! > > Glen > 0/0 > From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Tue Apr 2 23:55:42 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:55 2005 Subject: Soldering and other skills (was Re: QL-Quality (Was: ZX-81 Question)) In-Reply-To: <200204011208.NAA28374@citadel.metropolis.local> Message-ID: <20020403055542.32153.qmail@web20102.mail.yahoo.com> --- Stan Barr wrote: > I was taken ill a few years ago with some symptons that could be > remotely explained by heavy metal poisoning so I was thoroughly tested. > My lead levels were right on the average for someone living in an > urban environment. My personal lead concern isn't so much growing up amidst lead-based paint and leaded gasoline/petrol or even soldering since I was a lad, it's lead from plumbing, both from lead feed pipes in my childhood home (not lead joints, lead supply lines in the walls!) and the drinking water at McMurdo Station - the plumbing in the older buildings dates from well before 1975, including the Galley and many of the dorms. Because they changed the water extraction technique in 1995 from evaporators to reverse osmosis (they stopped melting collected snow a long time ago), the pH changed, and with it, the ability of the water to leach lead out of the joints. They tested the water several times per year and it routinely failed with 2x the safe limits for folks stateside. We were told it wasn't really a problem since we weren't children or expectant mothers, but when calculating our personal lead intakes, I am fairly certain that they did not factor in the fact that to avoid dehydration, we were supposed to drink no less than 4 litres per day (you'd be amazed how fast you can respirate yourself to illness!). So, handling a little solder doesn't phase me. I just try not to lick it too often. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ From andyh at andyh-rayleigh.freeserve.co.uk Wed Apr 3 00:03:46 2002 From: andyh at andyh-rayleigh.freeserve.co.uk (Andy Holt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:55 2005 Subject: The Future End of Classic Computing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000c01c1dad5$514a5640$4d4d2c0a@atx> > And as for restricting knowledge that could be used to commit crimes, > well, you'd better remove the brains of most of the population > right now... > > -tony > Isn't there suggestive evidence that this has already happened? :-) Andy From marvin at rain.org Wed Apr 3 00:43:07 2002 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:55 2005 Subject: RJ-45 Sockets/Covers/??? References: Message-ID: <3CAAA47A.635B40D5@rain.org> I didn't mention it (forgot) but these are new still sealed in their packaging. They have already been spoken for though. I think they were a good deal too :). "Clint Wolff (VAX collector)" wrote: > > You can pick these up at the local home improvement center, but > they cost a lot more than $5 :) > > On Tue, 2 Apr 2002, Marvin Johnston wrote: > > > > > I'm not sure what to call these things, but they are the covers for > > electrical boxes. There are a total of six covers, two with 2 RJ-45 > > connectors and four with 1 RJ-45 connector. Each of the RJ-45 connectors > > have 8 pins, and these are the covers used when wiring up a > > house/office/??? for a network. $5.00 plus shipping for all. > > From wmsmith at earthlink.net Wed Apr 3 00:56:57 2002 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:55 2005 Subject: The Future End of Classic Computing References: Message-ID: <003501c1dadc$bf710540$7685d642@Smith.earthlink.net> > >The reason why something is developed is really not that relevant to how > >it may ultimately be used > > So, according to you... if someone can find an illegal use for an > otherwise legal item, that item should no longer be available to ANYONE, > regardless of if it has legitimate legal uses? > > That being the case... please IMMEDIATELY surrender ALL your computers to > me, since they are potentially capable of pirating software, which > according to your logic, means you can not legally have said computers. > > I will make sure they are properly disposed of for you. > > While you are at it, I need a new car, so give me yours as well... after > all, cars are used every day as transport mechanisms for illegal > activity. I'll make sure it too is "disposed" of in a proper and fitting > manner. > > -chris > > > You've misinterpreted my meaning. I was responding to a poster who suggested that the intent underlying the development of a product was relevant to the appropriateness of its use. That I disagree with this position does not mean, as you have assumed, that I automatically adopt the other extreme -- that because there is an inappropriate use for a product, it cannot be used at all. Your attempt at a false dichotomy is rather transparent. Sorry, I don't have a new car, but I do have a NEC Powermate 386/20 with a crashed hard drive that you can have gratis (if you'll cover the shipping). -W From wmsmith at earthlink.net Wed Apr 3 01:03:45 2002 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:55 2005 Subject: The Future End of Classic Computing References: Message-ID: <007901c1dadd$b25c3720$7685d642@Smith.earthlink.net> > > In any event, the DMCA was intended to address not only those who distribute copies, but those who provide "circumvention devices" > > that enable others to engage in mass distribution. Doesn't it make as much sense to go after those involved in "mass distribution" > > of the circumvention device, such as DeCSS? > > No it most certainly does not! > > Owning the equipment to comit a crime (especially if that equipment has > legitimate uses) is not (or at least should not) be equivalent to > comitting that crime. > I don't diagree with you, but read again what I said -- "distribution" not "ownership." From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Wed Apr 3 00:54:39 2002 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:55 2005 Subject: Ultrix root password In-Reply-To: ; from vaxman@earthlink.net on Wed, Apr 03, 2002 at 06:41:30 CEST References: <20020402131714.A315260@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <20020403085439.E319578@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On 2002.04.03 06:41 Clint Wolff (VAX collector) wrote: > True, NetBSD would talk to it, but it would require NetBSD > running on a uVAX II so the drive could be plugged in. You have to run it only once to hack the Ultrix installation. Netbooted, so you don't need to remove any drives. > I certainly don't have the patience to run NetBSD on a uVAX II, > a wouldn't recommend anyone else do the same. I installed 4.3BSD-Tahoe UNIX on my MicroVAX III. Currently I am trying to build 4.3BSD-Reno from that base for my MicroVAX 3900. (Exhibition project for the VCFE.) This is real fun. These machines feel quite zippy with that old software. But this old stuff is real crude in some points. NetBSD gives you a slower, but very smooth ride on this hardware. > Unfortunately, NetBSD (and FreeBSD) is rapidly becoming > unusable on old hardware... If you want things like ssh ... you have to pay the price. -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From tothwolf at concentric.net Wed Apr 3 01:25:16 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:56 2005 Subject: Apple IIe card In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 2 Apr 2002 pat@cart-server.purdueriots.com wrote: > Bar between H+I is an "A102J" resistor pack (1kohm?) > > The header is next to I, right angle (pins parallel to board) > Two rows of pins, total of 26 pins. > > SW is a 4-position SPST dip switch Looks like a parallel printer card. The dip switch would be used for enabling/disabling different modes of operation for different printers. You could probably make up a cable for it from a 26 pin IDC ribbon cable connector, 6ft or so of 26 conductor ribbon cable, and a 36 pin IDC centronics-style connector. Since it uses a 26 conductor cable, I don't think you'd even have to fan out the cable at the 36 pin connector. You would have to make sure to get the pin 1 orientation right for both connectors. -Toth From tothwolf at concentric.net Wed Apr 3 01:36:43 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:56 2005 Subject: 6809 single board computer (was: "New" PDP-8) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 2 Apr 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > Agreed, it's a horrible connector. But there are not that many better > choices. Separate BNCs (which _I_ would like) would be unworkable for > the j-random-public. The coax inserts in the D shell (like the 13W3) > are not much better and are very expensive. I've been seriously > looking for an easy-to-wire, good quality, RGB video connector (say 5 > coax cores + logic lines) and have not found one yet. I think AMP makes some connectors that fit your description, but they are pricey. -Toth From mythtech at mac.com Wed Apr 3 01:40:54 2002 From: mythtech at mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:56 2005 Subject: The Future End of Classic Computing Message-ID: >You've misinterpreted my meaning. I was responding to a poster who >suggested that the intent underlying the development of a >product was relevant to the appropriateness of its use. That I disagree >with this position does not mean, as you have assumed, that >I automatically adopt the other extreme -- that because there is an >inappropriate use for a product, it cannot be used at all. Your >attempt at a false dichotomy is rather transparent. I would HOPE it was transparent... it was meant as a tongue in cheek response. I didn't honestly think you believed in the extreme logical end to the concept. Sorry, I thought it would be understood as a goof when I asked for your car. :-) -chris From tothwolf at concentric.net Wed Apr 3 01:41:56 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:56 2005 Subject: Soldering and other skills (was Re: QL-Quality (Was: ZX-81 Question)) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 3 Apr 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > > Whatever SRBP board dumps when heated to 180 deg C (toner transfer) > > And whatever tantalum bead capacitors give off when then explode! Whatever the stuff is, it is really, really nasty! The worst part is cleaning the crud off the board and surrounding components... > > Rosin (solder flux - Maplin probably don't use it in their lousy > > "Adepto" solder) > > Which is why I prefer real 'Multicore' brand solder... I've been using solder made by Alpha Metals, and have had very good luck with it. The flux gives off nearly no smell, and does not turn brown when heated. I imagine it is some type of no-clean flux, but I still use flux remover to clean it from any boards I work on. -Toth From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Apr 3 01:45:01 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:56 2005 Subject: Birthyear computers In-Reply-To: <3CA9F071.60F74645@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, 2 Apr 2002, Ben Franchuk wrote: > How about writing on a CAVE wall. *** Ducks *** The teenagers can get theirs for next to nothing, and can even transport and run cheap. The older machines are scarcer, more costly, a major project to transport, and costly to run. Even if they would sell me Stonehenge, I couldn't afford the shipping, and don't have enough storage space. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From clillie1 at socal.rr.com Wed Apr 3 01:46:43 2002 From: clillie1 at socal.rr.com (Chris Lillie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:56 2005 Subject: ibm thinkpad parts Message-ID: <01cd01c1dae4$3e18dce0$1c4aa518@socal.rr.com> call for your ibm think pad system boards 949-646-2181 all ibm think pad parts in stock From wmsmith at earthlink.net Wed Apr 3 02:20:52 2002 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:56 2005 Subject: The Future End of Classic Computing References: Message-ID: <008f01c1dae8$7828eb60$7685d642@Smith.earthlink.net> > >You've misinterpreted my meaning. I was responding to a poster who > >suggested that the intent underlying the development of a > >product was relevant to the appropriateness of its use. That I disagree > >with this position does not mean, as you have assumed, that > >I automatically adopt the other extreme -- that because there is an > >inappropriate use for a product, it cannot be used at all. Your > >attempt at a false dichotomy is rather transparent. > > I would HOPE it was transparent... it was meant as a tongue in cheek > response. I didn't honestly think you believed in the extreme logical end > to the concept. > > Sorry, I thought it would be understood as a goof when I asked for your > car. :-) > > -chris > > > You never know on this list, as there tends to be an abundance of reductio ad absurdum posts that are not at all tongue in cheek! You wouldn't want my car anyway, it's a lease. -W From wmsmith at earthlink.net Wed Apr 3 02:23:11 2002 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:56 2005 Subject: Birthyear computers References: Message-ID: <009701c1dae8$cb613da0$7685d642@Smith.earthlink.net> > Even if they would sell me Stonehenge, I couldn't afford the shipping, and > don't have enough storage space. > > -- > Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com > I'd need to find a Heathkit EC-1 -- at least it's not that big. From whdawson at localisps.net Wed Apr 3 03:06:40 2002 From: whdawson at localisps.net (Bill Dawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:56 2005 Subject: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New" PDP-8)) In-Reply-To: <001701c1dab1$f9d077a0$c3eeffcc@Shadow> Message-ID: -> I assume everyone knows what casting flash is... these screws -> have casting flash... Look closely. It is not casting flash. Screws aren't cast. As mentioned in an earlier post, the heads and threads are made by pressing (deformation) of a rod. When the form dies wear, are improperly secured, or are misaligned, the result is "extruded squish", not "casting flash". Bill From mcguire at neurotica.com Wed Apr 3 03:12:31 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:56 2005 Subject: OT: hp doc request Message-ID: <15530.51071.14884.922871@phaduka.neurotica.com> Hey folks...I know there are a lot of HP calc people here; a friend of mine is looking for an HP48G manual, the "HP 48G Series Advanced User's Reference Manual"...no luck with either HP or eBay; does anyone have a copy of this that they might wanna turn loose of, or maybe do some scanning from? Thanks, -Dave -- Dave McGuire "...it's leaving me this unpleasant, St. Petersburg, FL damp feeling on my shorts..." -Sridhar From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Wed Apr 3 04:24:03 2002 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Carlini, Antonio) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:56 2005 Subject: Strange idea in VAX Message-ID: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC47066540@exc-reo1.yagosys.com> >One thing that might be interested is to see if I can find a PCI hose for >it, find source code for the PCI hose driver for a free OS (I'm pretty >sure that there is one out there somewhere), and try to write a VMS driver >for the PCI hose on OpenVMS/VAX? Can you get a PCI hose for it? I forget. If you can then you could also get one of those 3rd party PCI<->Q-bus boards and create a loop :-) >Then I could try to get a PCI >framebuffer working, but then how would I go about attaching a keyboard >and mouse? PCI->USB? Antonio From rschaefe at gcfn.org Wed Apr 3 06:11:19 2002 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:56 2005 Subject: Fw: Off Topic? PDP 11 1134/1145's Message-ID: <01e001c1db08$aa580100$a7469280@y5f3q8> ----- Original Message ----- From: "maximum entropy" To: Cc: ; ; Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2002 11:01 PM Subject: Re: Off Topic? PDP 11 1134/1145's > >Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 22:28:45 -0500 > >From: Brian Hechinger > > > >On Tue, Apr 02, 2002 at 08:46:25PM -0800, joseph p bennardo wrote: > > > >> I can't say why they want them destroyed, but if you knew the company > >> you'd understnad a bit better. > > > >i probably still wouldn't understand. there is no good reason that i know of. > > I did get an almost reasonable justification for this sort of demented > behavior once. Some computer parts are considered hazardous waste. > If I take a machine from some company, then dump it for whatever > reason, there's a possibility (however remote) of it being traced back > to that company (via serial numbers or whatever). They could then > potentially be held liable for the illegal dumping. Of course, it > would be simple enough to provide a bill of sale for $0.01, or some > other documentation of the transfer of ownership. But I did lose out > on one deal where that was seen as just too much hassle for the > beaurocrats involved. When I aquired my VAX 6310 I signed a paper absolving them of all responsibility for the beast. (Didn't sign one for the TU81+...) At first I didn't want to sign, but after a few seconds of thinking about it I couldn't come up with a plasuable reason not to, so I did. Got a copy for my records though, it should be stuffed inside her somewhere. Bob > -- > entropy -- it's not just a good idea, it's the second law. From thomas at tstrathmann.de Wed Apr 3 06:13:57 2002 From: thomas at tstrathmann.de (Thomas Strathmann) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:56 2005 Subject: WTT: HP9000/700 system Message-ID: <20020403121357.GA8079@adams> Hi, I have a HP 9000/700, 50 MHz, 128 MB RAM, 1.x GB SCSI disk. Original HP keyboard and mouse included plus an HP 99784A 19'' monitor. Everything is in good working condition and so far I have had no problems with this system. HP-UX 10.20 is installed, I'll include media if needed (you know, the license is bound to the hardware). I wand to trade for something, dunno, make an offer. You would have to fetch it from northern Germany or send a freight forwarder. Thomas -- Thomas S. Strathmann http://pdp7.org If God had intended Man to Smoke, He would have set him on Fire. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Apr 3 07:19:54 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:56 2005 Subject: FA Tektronix 21/31 calculator brochure Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020403081954.007fc730@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> See From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Apr 3 07:16:24 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:56 2005 Subject: Televideo 950 terminal with manual FA Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020403081624.007fabc0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> See From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Apr 3 07:14:16 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:56 2005 Subject: morrow CPM books FA Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020403081416.007f8410@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> See From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Apr 3 07:18:25 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:56 2005 Subject: FA GE analog computer kit manual 1961!!! Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020403081825.007fb730@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> See From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Apr 3 07:26:07 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:56 2005 Subject: FA another Tek 31 brochure also 909 and 911 Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020403082607.007f9260@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Check his other auctions too. There's also articles about the Tek 909 and 911 calcualtors. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Apr 3 07:42:04 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:56 2005 Subject: OT: hp doc request In-Reply-To: <15530.51071.14884.922871@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020403084204.00818100@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Dave, The 48 is new enough that you can still get manuals from HP. Joe At 04:12 AM 4/3/02 -0500, you wrote: > > Hey folks...I know there are a lot of HP calc people here; a friend >of mine is looking for an HP48G manual, the "HP 48G Series Advanced >User's Reference Manual"...no luck with either HP or eBay; does anyone >have a copy of this that they might wanna turn loose of, or maybe do >some scanning from? > > Thanks, > -Dave > >-- >Dave McGuire "...it's leaving me this unpleasant, >St. Petersburg, FL damp feeling on my shorts..." -Sridhar > > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Apr 3 07:52:14 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:56 2005 Subject: some what OT: FW: Adios, Internet Radio Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020403085214.0081a3d0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> More US Government running amok! Joe >Subject: Adios, Internet Radio > > >========================================================= >-------- ENEWS AND VIEWS -------- >========================================================= >Delivering breaking news, as well as analysis and >commentary, from eWEEK.com > >April 3, 2002 // Volume 2, Issue 41 > >========================================================= >In This Edition >========================================================= >--OUR TAKE >Adios, Internet Radio > >========================================================= >Our Take >========================================================= >ADIOS, INTERNET RADIO > >-- By Chris Gonsalves -- > >I'm a fan of Stardog, personally. Maybe you like CelticGrove >or BlueCityJazz. Doesn't matter. In a few weeks, listening >to music on Internet radio will be dead as a mackerel. > >Shame really. The Internet radio business has been growing >at something like 100 percent annually and is thriving in >genres underrepresented on FM stations, such as classical, >blues, jazz and gospel. Doesn't matter. The government, >acting once again in the special interest of the music >industry, is about to crush the idea. > >In the latest example of groundless regulation and greed >interfering with free commerce, the U.S. Copyright Office is >considering a proposal that would force Internet radio >stations to pay exorbitant royalties to record companies and >performers, something their over-the-air counterparts are >not required to do. > >Where AM and FM radio stations pay a small fee to music >composers, Internet radio stations are facing fees of up to >14 cents per listener per song. That fee would bankrupt >nearly all of the Web broadcasters operating today, >according to the group saveinternetradio.org. > >Copyright officials have until May 21 to make the call, but >considering that the recommended shakedown came from the >advisory group they created--the Copyright Arbitration >Royalty Panel (CARP for short)--it's clear the rubber stamp >is warmed up and waiting. > >How did we get to this point? Even if you thought Napster >and others of their ilk were the bad guys, how did Internet >radio become to the target of the Harry Fox crowd? It began >in October 1998, when Congress passed the "Digital >Millennium Copyright Act" (DMCA), which gave record >companies the green light to collect royalties when music >was played via "digital media" such as Internet radio. > >It's an interesting departure from a music industry >standpoint. Record companies and performers don't get >royalties from AM and FM radio play because the copyright >folks consider the promotional value of the airplay payment >enough. So why the switch for the Internet? The theory >bought by Congress is that Internet listeners can make >"perfect copies" of the songs being streamed, and those >copies could hurt CD sales. That would be a good argument, >except that, as anyone who listens to Internet Radio knows, >you can't make "perfect copies." You can't easily make >copies at all. And if you can, they are of too low a sound >quality to be useful in creating your own CDs. What you get >sounds pretty much like those cassette tapes you used to >make off the FM radio. Not great. > >Never ones to let facts stand in their way, the solons >assigned to the CARP published their recommended royalty >schedule in late February. As the basis for the outrageous >fee schedule, the CARP report cites a $5 billion deal >between Yahoo! and Broadcast.com. The result was a figure >that would leave most Internet broadcasters, who have >attracted precious little advertising, liable for between >200 and 300 percent of their gross revenues. And, oh, by the >way, the fees are retroactive to October 1998. According to >Internet radio industry figures, a midsize independent >Webcaster with an average audience of 1,000 would owe >$525,600. > >See you later Stardog. It was nice knowing you. > >To e-mail eWEEK Deputy News Editor Chris Gonsalves, >click here: >mailto:chris_gonsalves@ziffdavis.com > >========================================================= >News >========================================================= >1. ADDITIONAL IE/APACHE PROBLEMS SURFACE > >eWEEK Labs' Timothy Dyck last month advised readers to use a >combination of HTTPS and basic authentication to get secure >log-in functionality that works with all browsers and Web >servers. It turns out that this approach won't work all the >time, either. To read the story, click here: >http://eletters1.ziffdavis.com/cgi-bin10/flo?y=ePOu0BzN6x0DUm0gLO0A2 > >------------------------------------------------------------ >2. PAIR OF OFFICE XP BUGS UNCOVERED > >A well-known security researcher has released an advisory >about--and exploit code for--two new unpatched flaws in >portions of Microsoft Corp.'s Office XP application suite. >The two bugs are closely related and, if used in concert, >could enable an attacker to gain complete control over a >vulnerable machine. To read the story, click here: >http://eletters1.ziffdavis.com/cgi-bin10/flo?y=ePOu0BzN6x0DUm0gJj0AS > >------------------------------------------------------------ >3. INTEL TO CUT CHIP PRICING BY 57 PERCENT > >Intel is set to cut prices on its top-performing Pentium 4 >chips by as much as 25 percent this month and up to 57 >percent this spring. To read the story, click here: >http://eletters1.ziffdavis.com/cgi-bin10/flo?y=ePOu0BzN6x0DUm0gJm0AV > >========================================================= >Now at eWEEK.com >========================================================= >1. PETER COFFEE: THE LONG ROAD TO SIMPLE SYSTEMS >http://eletters1.ziffdavis.com/cgi-bin10/flo?y=ePOu0BzN6x0DUm0gLP0A3 > >2. NETWORK APPLIANCE TARGETS REMOTE ACCESS >http://eletters1.ziffdavis.com/cgi-bin10/flo?y=ePOu0BzN6x0DUm0gLQ0A4 > >3. A SECURITY EXTENSION FOR MICROSOFT OPERATIONS MANAGER >http://eletters1.ziffdavis.com/cgi-bin10/flo?y=ePOu0BzN6x0DUm0gLR0A5 > >4. SUN BUILDS OUT JAVA TOOL SETS >http://eletters1.ziffdavis.com/cgi-bin10/flo?y=ePOu0BzN6x0DUm0gJn0AW > >5. HP BOARD BALKS AT HEWLETT RENOMINATION >http://eletters1.ziffdavis.com/cgi-bin10/flo?y=ePOu0BzN6x0DUm0fva0A1 > >6. NAI TOOL SCANS FOR NETWORK CRACKS >http://eletters1.ziffdavis.com/cgi-bin10/flo?y=ePOu0BzN6x0DUm0gJk0AT > >========================================================= >Elsewhere on Ziff Davis >========================================================= >1. JOHN C. DVORAK: NANODRIVE USES INSECT PARTS >http://eletters1.ziffdavis.com/cgi-bin10/flo?y=ePOu0BzN6x0DUm0gJr0Aa > >2. ULTRAPORTABLES: HOW LOW CAN THEY GO? >http://eletters1.ziffdavis.com/cgi-bin10/flo?y=ePOu0BzN6x0DUm0gJq0AZ > >3. ARE SERVER APPLIANCES RIGHT FOR YOUR BUSINESS? >http://eletters1.ziffdavis.com/cgi-bin10/flo?y=ePOu0BzN6x0DUm0gJs0Ab > >4. LINUX X WINDOWS FLAW LETS INTRUDERS IN >http://eletters1.ziffdavis.com/cgi-bin10/flo?y=ePOu0BzN6x0DUm0gJt0Ac > >5. BILL MACHRONE: XML SECURITY RISKS >http://eletters1.ziffdavis.com/cgi-bin10/flo?y=ePOu0BzN6x0DUm0gLS0A6 > >6. A CHEAT SHEET FOR CRM SUCCESS >http://eletters1.ziffdavis.com/cgi-bin10/flo?y=ePOu0BzN6x0DUm0gLT0A7 > >Copyright (c) 2002 Ziff Davis Media Inc. All Rights >Reserved. > From dquebbeman at acm.org Wed Apr 3 07:43:49 2002 From: dquebbeman at acm.org (Douglas H. Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:56 2005 Subject: Seeking Old Wirth-Jensen Pascal Book Message-ID: <000701c1db15$95d73630$e401a8c0@tegjeff.com> Good Morning... I used to have a copy of: PASCAL User Manual and Report Authors: Jensen & Wirth Pub: Springer-Verlag It had a silver cover with red & black printing. I loaned it out, it never came back. If anyone has a copy they'd part with, or finds one, please contact me. Thanks, -doug quebbeman -Douglas Hurst Quebbeman (DougQ at ixsnayamspayIgLou.com) [Call me "Doug"] Surgically excise the pig-latin from my e-mail address in order to reply "The large print giveth, and the small print taketh away." -Tom Waits From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Wed Apr 3 07:45:03 2002 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:56 2005 Subject: Birthyear computers In-Reply-To: References: <3CA9F071.60F74645@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <3CAB237F.7822.27BD8776@localhost> > On Tue, 2 Apr 2002, Ben Franchuk wrote: > > How about writing on a CAVE wall. *** Ducks *** > Even if they would sell me Stonehenge, I couldn't afford the shipping, and > don't have enough storage space. They got prety small versions available by now ... I assume even some according to your birth year :) Gruss H. (I realy love long distance communication - less nose bleeding :) -- VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Wed Apr 3 08:00:25 2002 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (Allison) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:56 2005 Subject: Computers Manufactured in 1986 Message-ID: <001801c1db17$e8fe5f80$3a7b7b7b@ajp> From: Ethan Dicks > >DECmate? I think the DM-III(+) was sold until 1994. I'd have to look up >what model was contemporary to 1986; I'd guess the DECmate-II. DMII was maybe 83ish. >The question is, though, is this thread about computers you could >walk down the street and _buy_ in 1986, or ones that were _introduced_ >in 1986? The second is a much smaller list, naturally. That would generally exclude much with 386 or higher. '86 was the Z100 series, last of the CP/M-80 machines like Kaypros and Compupro S100 crates. Microvax-I was there and VAXMATE was just around the corner (integrated 286 boxen). It was also a point on the broad 286 peak. The Workstation wars were warming up around then as well, this would lead to Sun, Apollo, DECstations{mips} and later VAXstations. Biggest impression of '86, WYSIWYG printing and Graphical screens making a big surge. Allison From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Wed Apr 3 08:05:46 2002 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (Allison) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:56 2005 Subject: "New" PDP-8 Message-ID: <001f01c1db18$a8054420$3a7b7b7b@ajp> From: Ethan Dicks >The EPROMs themselves are not worth recycling (from the standpoint that >they are more valuable with DM firmware than as ordinary blanks). The >contents might be worth archving (not that they aren't already). I was.... SNIP>>> I wasn't suggesting they had significant value but did point out they were at least removeable and therefor usable. >The UARTs are 6402s, right? Not an uncommon chip outside of the Wintel >world. Still available in quantity, AFAIK. Correct but, if your building it's nice to not have to buy if you have! >Would the 6121 have any application outside of a DECmate? It's part of >the wierd console emulation on the DM, isn't it? It's the IO port device (decode and register control). It's not quite standard PDP-8 but it is generally useful. >> The DMIII it will be the 6120 and maybe a 6121 plus 2882 and the eproms, >> though I'm less sure as it's been a long time since I've had to open one. > >What's the 2882 do? UART. The DMIII had D7201 {intel 8274} dual USARTs, not common but useful as it's nearly identical to the Z80 SIO but, intended for 8080/8085/8088/8086 style busses. Allison From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Wed Apr 3 08:10:03 2002 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (Allison) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:56 2005 Subject: PCB vs perfboard construction economics (was Re: "New" PDP-8) Message-ID: <006801c1db19$85f3d760$3a7b7b7b@ajp> From: Ethan Dicks >> I like the PDP-8 but am unhappy that a 12/24 cpu never hit the >> monolithic chip market. > >That would have been fun. > >> Well I don't but remember with out the proper I/O a pdp-8 is NO FUN. Yes, and the big highlight of the PDP-8 (omnibus) was the relative ease of doing one off IO. It was truly easy to WW a quad card to do most anything. Allison From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Wed Apr 3 08:18:14 2002 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (Allison) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:56 2005 Subject: Computers Manufactured in 1986^H^H56 Message-ID: <00ef01c1db1a$65c92c00$3a7b7b7b@ajp> From: Ethan Dicks >> My birth-year is 1972, in that era what typical 'puter small enough >> to fit on desk or on floor (tower) and easy to ship? > >PDP-8/M? Some early PDP-11 (/05?) Too early for the i4004. I do have 4004 was there, and the 8008 was just about there (sept 82 intro). PDP-8e of various forms, Cincinattai Millichron CM2000/2100/2200 to name an oddball. Allison From hansp at aconit.org Wed Apr 3 08:21:59 2002 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:56 2005 Subject: Seeking Old Wirth-Jensen Pascal Book References: <000701c1db15$95d73630$e401a8c0@tegjeff.com> Message-ID: <3CAB1007.6060701@aconit.org> Douglas H. Quebbeman wrote: > PASCAL User Manual and Report > Authors: Jensen & Wirth > Pub: Springer-Verlag bookfinder.com throws up multiple copies.... -- hbp From doc at mdrconsult.com Wed Apr 3 08:23:55 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:56 2005 Subject: some what OT: FW: Adios, Internet Radio In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20020403085214.0081a3d0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: I really, really, really wanted this to be a joke. It's really,really not. Doc From r_beaudry at hotmail.com Wed Apr 3 14:26:37 2002 From: r_beaudry at hotmail.com (Rich Beaudry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:56 2005 Subject: IBM PS/1 Recovery/Install diskettes available Message-ID: >Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 19:07:15 EST >From: SUPRDAVE@aol.com >Subject: Re: IBM PS/1 Recovery/Install diskettes available >In a message dated 4/2/02 5:05:52 PM Eastern Standard Time, >r_beaudry@hotmail.com writes: > >><< A bit too new to be on topic, but... I was scrounging through some >> >>stuff >>yesterday, and unearthed a set of original diskettes for an IBM PS/1. >> >> > >do you know what model PS/1? Well.... I only have the disks, and not a PS/1. They were part of another lot of stuff that I got... Is there a way to tell from a file on the disk, or some number on the outside of the disk? Rich B. _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx From jhellige at earthlink.net Wed Apr 3 08:47:13 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:56 2005 Subject: some what OT: FW: Adios, Internet Radio In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <02Apr3.100803est.119047@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> > I really, really, really wanted this to be a joke. It's really,really >not. This kind of thing explains why I no longer buy CD's or movies, when in the past I spent quite a bit of money on tapes and albums. Netflix.com is my source for movies, and at $20/month it offers much better value than going to the theatre. Piracy isn't hurting the recording industry, it's their greed coupled to the fact that they no longer offer good value. I will not support an industry that tries to put these strangleholds on what I can do. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From dtwright at uiuc.edu Wed Apr 3 08:49:33 2002 From: dtwright at uiuc.edu (Dan Wright) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:56 2005 Subject: The Future End of Classic Computing In-Reply-To: <007901c1dadd$b25c3720$7685d642@Smith.earthlink.net> References: <007901c1dadd$b25c3720$7685d642@Smith.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <20020403144933.GB880545@uiuc.edu> Wayne M. Smith said: > > No it most certainly does not! > > > > Owning the equipment to comit a crime (especially if that equipment has > > legitimate uses) is not (or at least should not) be equivalent to > > comitting that crime. > > > I don't diagree with you, but read again what I said -- "distribution" not "ownership." Then we should ban knife stores, gun shops, etc...hell, anything that sells or distributes anything of any kind. you know, any object can be used to commit a crime. It is a logical fallacy to draw an arbitrary line between distributing a computer program or source code that could be used to commit a crime and distributing a material object that can be used to commit a crime. There is no philosophical distinction between the two, even if there is a literal distinction. Once it becomes OK to ban the distribution of DeCSS or like computer programs, how much farther do you need to go to ban distribution of firearms? from there to knives? Since the legal precedent is in place that it's ok to ban the distribution of ANYTHING (or, equally important, any IDEA) because it MIGHT be used to commit a crime, we are on a very slippery slope and something needs to be done about it NOW before we fall off the bottom. - Dan Wright (dtwright@uiuc.edu) (http://www.uiuc.edu/~dtwright) -] ------------------------------ [-] -------------------------------- [- ``Weave a circle round him thrice, / And close your eyes with holy dread, For he on honeydew hath fed, / and drunk the milk of Paradise.'' Samuel Taylor Coleridge, Kubla Khan From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Wed Apr 3 08:52:30 2002 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (Allison) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:56 2005 Subject: CP/M and Imsai Message-ID: <000401c1db1f$2f44ed40$3a7b7b7b@ajp> From: Bill Sudbrink >You should add that it is a real kick when you finally get >everything right and the sucker actually boots and works! That's still the best reason to do it. It's a total immersion project and once done there are few parts of the system that will not be understood at the software (maybe hardware too) level. >All of my boxes that run CP/M run 2.2 built from the source >found at the "unofficial CP/M web site": Some of those I copied to Tim! I was useing them back when to build mine, from the emergence of V2.2 on. >http://www.retroarchive.org/cpm/archive/unofficial/ Da place! >Finding a build environment is left as an exercise for the reader. I recommend MyZ80 as a starting point. Then work the hardware dependent stuff iteritively on the target via serial download. Allison From dtwright at uiuc.edu Wed Apr 3 08:50:43 2002 From: dtwright at uiuc.edu (Dan Wright) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:56 2005 Subject: The Future End of Classic Computing In-Reply-To: References: <007501c1da11$4eb70140$7685d642@Smith.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <20020403145043.GC880545@uiuc.edu> Tony Duell said: > > And as for restricting knowledge that could be used to commit crimes, > well, you'd better remove the brains of most of the population right now... Has everyone read _1984_? I just finished it and it's quite good ;) anyway, very instructive, and frightening, on this point... - Dan Wright (dtwright@uiuc.edu) (http://www.uiuc.edu/~dtwright) -] ------------------------------ [-] -------------------------------- [- ``Weave a circle round him thrice, / And close your eyes with holy dread, For he on honeydew hath fed, / and drunk the milk of Paradise.'' Samuel Taylor Coleridge, Kubla Khan From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Wed Apr 3 09:06:57 2002 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:56 2005 Subject: DEC swap meet?(RE: Off Topic? PDP 11 1134/1145's) Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA615014677E9@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> (cc'd to ClassicCmp list, I'm sure there's interest there...) > From: Brian Hechinger > > On Tue, Apr 02, 2002 at 12:26:23PM -0800, Lyle Bickley wrote: > > All, > > > > May I make another suggestion? A bunch of us here in the Silicon Valley > are > > fans of old DEC equipment. We get 'em and restore 'em. Some favor PDPs > (one > > guy even has two DEC 10's), some favor the smaller 11's and others of us > like > > old VAXes. At any rate, we meet once a month for lunch and swap > stories, > > tell what stuff we've picked up, etc. All of us are willing to trade > > equipment or donate books and equipment to each other. We studiously > avoid > > EBAY. > > so who's on the east coast that would like to do this? i'm in philly, and > i > know isildur is in pittsburg. don't know where we would want to meet > though, > since some people would have to travel far for that. thoughts? ideas? > -- > I'd be up for it. A flea-market swap-meet kinda thing, right? Maybe we can get something going up here in New Haven, CT? --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 Mac OS X 10.1.2 - Darwin Kernel Version 5.2: Fri Dec 7 21:39:35 PST 2001 Running since 01/22/2002 without a crash From linc at thelinuxlink.net Wed Apr 3 09:02:40 2002 From: linc at thelinuxlink.net (Linc Fessenden) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:56 2005 Subject: DEC swap meet?(RE: Off Topic? PDP 11 1134/1145's) In-Reply-To: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA615014677E9@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> Message-ID: On Wed, 3 Apr 2002, David Woyciesjes wrote: > (cc'd to ClassicCmp list, I'm sure there's interest there...) > > > From: Brian Hechinger > > > > On Tue, Apr 02, 2002 at 12:26:23PM -0800, Lyle Bickley wrote: > > > All, > > > > > > May I make another suggestion? A bunch of us here in the Silicon Valley > > are > > > fans of old DEC equipment. We get 'em and restore 'em. Some favor PDPs > > (one > > > guy even has two DEC 10's), some favor the smaller 11's and others of us > > like > > > old VAXes. At any rate, we meet once a month for lunch and swap > > stories, > > > tell what stuff we've picked up, etc. All of us are willing to trade > > > equipment or donate books and equipment to each other. We studiously > > avoid > > > EBAY. > > > > so who's on the east coast that would like to do this? i'm in philly, and > > i > > know isildur is in pittsburg. don't know where we would want to meet > > though, > > since some people would have to travel far for that. thoughts? ideas? > > -- > > > I'd be up for it. A flea-market swap-meet kinda thing, right? Maybe > we can get something going up here in New Haven, CT? I am in as well.. Problem is I live in between Isildur and Brian so PA is looking better and better :-) -Linc Fessenden In the Beginning there was nothing, which exploded - Yeah right... From dquebbeman at acm.org Wed Apr 3 09:03:33 2002 From: dquebbeman at acm.org (Douglas H. Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:56 2005 Subject: Seeking Old Wirth-Jensen Pascal Book Message-ID: <000f01c1db20$b9814de0$e401a8c0@tegjeff.com> > Douglas H. Quebbeman wrote: > > > > PASCAL User Manual and Report > > Authors: Jensen & Wirth > > Pub: Springer-Verlag > > bookfinder.com throws up multiple copies.... Cool... do you think I can trade some S-100 boards for one? What? Bookfinder.com won't do ClassicCmp trades? :( -Douglas Hurst Quebbeman (DougQ at ixsnayamspayIgLou.com) [Call me "Doug"] Surgically excise the pig-latin from my e-mail address in order to reply "The large print giveth, and the small print taketh away." -Tom Waits From mrfusion at argonath.vaxpower.org Wed Apr 3 09:02:47 2002 From: mrfusion at argonath.vaxpower.org (Lord Isildur) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:56 2005 Subject: DEC swap meet?(RE: Off Topic? PDP 11 1134/1145's) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: PA would definitely be a plus to me. If its an hour or two drive, i would have a high chance of getting there, but if its more than that i probably wouldnt. Isildur On Wed, 3 Apr 2002, Linc Fessenden wrote: > I am in as well.. Problem is I live in between Isildur and Brian so PA is > looking better and better :-) > > -Linc Fessenden From dquebbeman at acm.org Wed Apr 3 09:05:23 2002 From: dquebbeman at acm.org (Douglas H. Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:56 2005 Subject: Computers Manufactured in 1986^H^H56" Message-ID: <001701c1db20$faf919b0$e401a8c0@tegjeff.com> > PDP-8e of various forms, Cincinattai Millichron CM2000/2100/2200 to ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Cincinnati Milacron ;) -Douglas Hurst Quebbeman (DougQ at ixsnayamspayIgLou.com) [Call me "Doug"] Surgically excise the pig-latin from my e-mail address in order to reply "The large print giveth, and the small print taketh away." -Tom Waits From edick at idcomm.com Wed Apr 3 09:07:04 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:56 2005 Subject: 2016 (was: ZX81 and 6116) References: <20020403051510.YBTK19878.imf22bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> Message-ID: <002101c1db21$373e0660$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> 6116's are adequate, actually superior, substitutes for 2016's, and they're available, very readily, ANYWHERE, even in 3rd world countries. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Glen Goodwin" To: Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2002 10:13 PM Subject: Re: 2016 (was: ZX81 and 6116) > > From: Hans Franke > > > So it looks as if ZX 81s are a good source to get 2016s ? > > Arrrrrrrrgggggggggghhhhhhhhh! > > Would you really trash a ZX81 to get a US$2.00 part which is commonly > available??? > > If you decide to go through with such a plan, will you please save the > leftover ZX81 parts? Certain parts of these things are becoming very hard > to find. I'll pay the freight if you send them to me! If you don't want > to send them out of Germany please give them to deserving ZX-TEAM members > near you! > > Glen > 0/0 > > From bpope at wordstock.com Wed Apr 3 09:10:41 2002 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:56 2005 Subject: The Future End of Classic Computing In-Reply-To: <20020403145043.GC880545@uiuc.edu> from "Dan Wright" at Apr 3, 02 08:50:43 am Message-ID: <200204031510.KAA15462@wordstock.com> And thusly Dan Wright spake: > > Tony Duell said: > > > > And as for restricting knowledge that could be used to commit crimes, > > well, you'd better remove the brains of most of the population right now... > > Has everyone read _1984_? I just finished it and it's quite good ;) anyway, > very instructive, and frightening, on this point... > Ooooh.... And what about Farenheit 451?! This was required reading at my high school. Ray Bradbury was just honored with some award a few days ago. Cheers, Bryan From edick at idcomm.com Wed Apr 3 09:08:56 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:56 2005 Subject: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New" PDP-8)) References: Message-ID: <002701c1db21$7a30b260$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> If your screws aren't 6x32's already, the easiest and probably most practical thing to do is get a 6x32 roll-tap, and "fix" the application so you can get the "right" screws whenever you need. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Maslin" To: "ClassicCmp List" Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2002 10:22 PM Subject: Re: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New" PDP-8)) > > > On Tue, 2 Apr 2002, Douglas H. Quebbeman wrote: > > > > > In the case of self-tapping screws it generally pervents the screw from > > > > starting a new thread (which, if done enough times means there's no > > metal > > > > left). In the case of large-diameter fine pitch threads (like lens > > > > retaining rings in cameras, OK, off-topic, but I can't think of such a > > > > thread in a computer), it helps prevent cross-threading. > > > > > > > > I assumed this trick was well-known, but perhaps not. > > > > > > > > -tony > > > > > > > Sheesh! I should have read one more message! > > > > > > - don > > > > I never am as clear in some of my posts as I'd like... > > > > The kind of screws I'm lamenting are cast, and cast poorly... > > > > I assume everyone knows what casting flash is... these screws > > have casting flash... when you thread them through, the sheet > > metal eats at the flash, and you get metal bits from that, and > > at the same time, the part of the flash that doesn't come off > > quickly reams the sheet metal to death. > > It is also possible that they are stamped in ill-mating dies, > which could provide the same result. > - don > > > *Buy* quality screws? There is an advertisement showing here > > in the U.S. Midwest for an office supply firm. The scene is > > set in a "typical" office... some shirts are having a meeting, > > when another shirt comes in and asks if "can we use the pen"? > > > > THE pen. The only pen in the office. > > > > When I need a screw for a PC, I typically have to find a PC > > from which to remove a screw. Everything ends up with half > > the screws it was designed to use. > > > > Now, we just bought 25 Dells that don't use very many screws. > > > > Where oh where will I get a screw when I need one? > > > > -dq > > > > > > > > From wonko at arkham.ws Wed Apr 3 09:04:23 2002 From: wonko at arkham.ws (Brian Hechinger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:56 2005 Subject: DEC swap meet?(RE: Off Topic? PDP 11 1134/1145's) In-Reply-To: ; from mrfusion@uranium.vaxpower.org on Wed, Apr 03, 2002 at 10:02:47AM -0500 References: Message-ID: <20020403100423.T9601@wintermute.arkham.ws> On Wed, Apr 03, 2002 at 10:02:47AM -0500, Lord Isildur wrote: > > PA would definitely be a plus to me. If its an hour or two drive, i would > have a high chance of getting there, but if its more than that i probably > wouldnt. what halfway not-shitty town east of you is withing reason? pick something, let's see if it's an ok place to meet. close to pittsburg means we might convince Rob S. to stop out as well, but damn pittsburg is a haul from here. -brian -- "Oh, shut up Buddha." -Jesus Christ (South Park) From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Wed Apr 3 09:27:34 2002 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:56 2005 Subject: DEC swap meet?(RE: Off Topic? PDP 11 1134/1145's) Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA615014677EA@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> > From: Brian Hechinger > > On Wed, Apr 03, 2002 at 10:02:47AM -0500, Lord Isildur wrote: > > > > PA would definitely be a plus to me. If its an hour or two drive, i > would > > have a high chance of getting there, but if its more than that i > probably > > wouldnt. > > what halfway not-shitty town east of you is withing reason? pick > something, > let's see if it's an ok place to meet. > > close to pittsburg means we might convince Rob S. to stop out as well, but > damn pittsburg is a haul from here. > > -brian > -- Personally, I'd probably make a weekend of it, or something, if I can... --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 Mac OS X 10.1.2 - Darwin Kernel Version 5.2: Fri Dec 7 21:39:35 PST 2001 Running since 01/22/2002 without a crash From mrfusion at argonath.vaxpower.org Wed Apr 3 09:22:19 2002 From: mrfusion at argonath.vaxpower.org (Lord Isildur) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:56 2005 Subject: DEC swap meet?(RE: Off Topic? PDP 11 1134/1145's) In-Reply-To: <20020403100423.T9601@wintermute.arkham.ws> Message-ID: thats one of the problems.. there reaslly isnt any place in pennsylvania that makes much sense other than close to you in philly or close to me in pittsburgh.. though there are more folks on the list east of us than west i'd think. as for pittsburgh, it is too far west i think. i'd naturally invite interested vaxaholics to the (fourth annual, this year :) vax party sometime in october, but thats not the same thing anyway. philly is more than 2 hours, but might still be the best place. isildur On Wed, 3 Apr 2002, Brian Hechinger wrote: > On Wed, Apr 03, 2002 at 10:02:47AM -0500, Lord Isildur wrote: > > > > PA would definitely be a plus to me. If its an hour or two drive, i would > > have a high chance of getting there, but if its more than that i probably > > wouldnt. > > what halfway not-shitty town east of you is withing reason? pick something, > let's see if it's an ok place to meet. > > close to pittsburg means we might convince Rob S. to stop out as well, but > damn pittsburg is a haul from here. > > -brian > -- > "Oh, shut up Buddha." -Jesus Christ (South Park) > From csmith at amdocs.com Wed Apr 3 09:20:53 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:56 2005 Subject: Computers Manufactured in 1986 Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E01784354@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: blacklord [mailto:blacklord@telstra.com] > But the Miggy had more & in better quality :-) (And they're > still being > written for too.....) For a 1000 -- are you sure? :) I have a much easier time finding software for my 520ST. Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From csmith at amdocs.com Wed Apr 3 09:27:40 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:56 2005 Subject: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New" PDP-8)) Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E01784356@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Doc [mailto:doc@mdrconsult.com] > As hard as it may be to envision, I bet _most_ of the subscribers to > this list do not own tap & die sets. Many probably own only Speaking as someone who doesn't own a tap and die, I can say that there's not a day I'm working on something (anything) that I don't think "maybe I should go out and finally get a tap and die set." ;) > Doc, who has a very sharp knife and a flashlight at all times, > or did until September 11.... Doc, you can reply in email if you'd like since it's not really on topic, but why on earth have you stopped carrying them? Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Wed Apr 3 09:39:53 2002 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:56 2005 Subject: The Future End of Classic Computing Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA615014677EB@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> > From: Dan Wright > > > Tony Duell said: > > > > And as for restricting knowledge that could be used to commit crimes, > > well, you'd better remove the brains of most of the population right > now... > > Has everyone read _1984_? I just finished it and it's quite good ;) > anyway, > very instructive, and frightening, on this point... > > - Dan Wright > Read that ages ago. Excellent book.... --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 Mac OS X 10.1.2 - Darwin Kernel Version 5.2: Fri Dec 7 21:39:35 PST 2001 Running since 01/22/2002 without a crash From hansp at aconit.org Wed Apr 3 09:42:10 2002 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:56 2005 Subject: Seeking Old Wirth-Jensen Pascal Book References: <000f01c1db20$b9814de0$e401a8c0@tegjeff.com> Message-ID: <3CAB22D2.8010503@aconit.org> Douglas H. Quebbeman wrote: >>>PASCAL User Manual and Report >>>Authors: Jensen & Wirth >>>Pub: Springer-Verlag >>bookfinder.com throws up multiple copies.... > Cool... do you think I can trade some S-100 boards for one? Ah, you did not specify that you wanted to trade. > What? Bookfinder.com won't do ClassicCmp trades? You could always offer. About time we regressed back to a barter economy. -- hbp From jpl15 at panix.com Wed Apr 3 09:38:21 2002 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:56 2005 Subject: Language Converter (fwd) Message-ID: Forwarded for any possible help; REPLY TO MR. DOWNMAN, not to me. I'm just the nosey forwarder.... ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 17:15:52 +1000 From: Jim Downman & Assoc. Reply-To: dxsoft@yahoogroups.com To: dxsoft@yahoogroups.com Subject: Language Converter How does one convert old Smith Corona Word Processor Diskettes for use on the hard drive of my Windows XP System. They contain years of hard work and valuable imformation ??? The diskettes are low density 740KB size. Can somebody help.?? Jim VK4FAD --------end fwd----------- From jhellige at earthlink.net Wed Apr 3 09:47:06 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:56 2005 Subject: Computers Manufactured in 1986 In-Reply-To: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E01784354@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> References: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E01784354@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> Message-ID: <02Apr3.110751est.119043@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> > > -----Original Message----- >> From: blacklord [mailto:blacklord@telstra.com] > >> But the Miggy had more & in better quality :-) (And they're >> still being >> written for too.....) > >For a 1000 -- are you sure? :) I have a much easier time finding >software for my 520ST. The ST doesn't have an archive the size of Aminet, though I will admit most of the software is geared towards later models. Thankfully, if it's meant to run on the A500 it will likely run on the A1000. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From csmith at amdocs.com Wed Apr 3 09:47:10 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:56 2005 Subject: The Future End of Classic Computing Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E01784358@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Wayne M. Smith [mailto:wmsmith@earthlink.net] > > > that enable others to engage in mass distribution. > Doesn't it make as much sense to go after those involved in "mass > distribution" > > > of the circumvention device, such as DeCSS? > > Owning the equipment to comit a crime (especially if that > equipment has > > legitimate uses) is not (or at least should not) be equivalent to > > comitting that crime. > I don't diagree with you, but read again what I said -- > "distribution" not "ownership." To punish someone for distributing equipment which could be used to commit a crime is just as ludicrous. It does not matter whether the alleged crime involves a computer or not. You don't punish people for selling rat poison, kitchen utensils, notebook paper, or photocopiers, do you? What about panty-hose and ski-masks -- I hear those are used in crime a lot! :) When will we have the digital millennium hosiery act? It would be absolutely idiotic to punish someone for distributing software which _might_ be used to illegally copy things to some other media. You may as well put Fred in jail for Xenocopy, in fact ;) Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Wed Apr 3 10:00:10 2002 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:56 2005 Subject: The Future End of Classic Computing Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA615014677ED@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> > From: Bryan Pope > > And thusly Dan Wright spake: > > > > Tony Duell said: > > > > > > And as for restricting knowledge that could be used to commit crimes, > > > well, you'd better remove the brains of most of the population right > now... > > > > Has everyone read _1984_? I just finished it and it's quite good ;) > anyway, > > very instructive, and frightening, on this point... > > > > Ooooh.... And what about Farenheit 451?! This was required reading at my > high school. Ray Bradbury was just honored with some award a few days > ago. > > Cheers, > > Bryan > Another very excellent book, that I read (what feels like) ages ago... --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 Mac OS X 10.1.2 - Darwin Kernel Version 5.2: Fri Dec 7 21:39:35 PST 2001 Running since 01/22/2002 without a crash From doc at mdrconsult.com Wed Apr 3 09:55:30 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:56 2005 Subject: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New" PDP-8)) In-Reply-To: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E01784356@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 3 Apr 2002, Christopher Smith wrote: > > Doc, who has a very sharp knife and a flashlight at all times, > > or did until September 11.... > > Doc, you can reply in email if you'd like since it's not really on topic, > but why on earth have you stopped carrying them? I haven't stopped carrying them at all. But I fly a lot, so the "all times" part is no longer accurate. They tell me that a MicroMag flashlight looks too much like a pistol barrel on the 'scope. They get very upset about it. Doc From edick at idcomm.com Wed Apr 3 09:56:21 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:57 2005 Subject: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New" PDP-8)) References: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E01784356@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> Message-ID: <000d01c1db28$1967eaa0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> You don't have to buy a tap and die set unless you're really into tools for their own sake. I've had a tap and die set, and, until a year or so ago, a completely equipped machine shop, with equipment ranging from punch presses to various lathes and milling machines. While I'm not an expert machinist, I have managed, over the years, to learn how to make relatively small and quite interchangeable parts, and very precisely fitting ones at that, without hurting mysielf, and without creating too much scrap. I've even managed to learn to limit the number of taps I break when I'm required to tap a 2"-deep hole. I personally have used a die for threading rod only once in the ~30 years over which I've owned one. Normally, when I needed a tap, I simply bought one, for about half a dollar. Now, I'm not quite ready to give up the tap wrenches I own, but of the dies I've had, only one has ever been used, and that one only once. For what I've seen on this thread, a roll-tap and a tap wrench, the latter being best bought at a used tool sale or pawn shop, would be quite adequate. The lubricant of choice for sheet metal, tapped by the usual home user, would be hand lotion. Special lubricants aren't necessary. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher Smith" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2002 8:27 AM Subject: RE: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New" PDP-8)) > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Doc [mailto:doc@mdrconsult.com] > > > As hard as it may be to envision, I bet _most_ of the subscribers to > > this list do not own tap & die sets. Many probably own only > > Speaking as someone who doesn't own a tap and die, I can say that there's > not a day I'm working on something (anything) that I don't think "maybe I > should go out and finally get a tap and die set." ;) > > > Doc, who has a very sharp knife and a flashlight at all times, > > or did until September 11.... > > Doc, you can reply in email if you'd like since it's not really on topic, > but why on earth have you stopped carrying them? > > Chris > > > Christopher Smith, Perl Developer > Amdocs - Champaign, IL > > /usr/bin/perl -e ' > print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); > ' > > > From fauradon at beckman.com Wed Apr 3 10:01:16 2002 From: fauradon at beckman.com (fauradon@beckman.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:57 2005 Subject: WTF? Message-ID: I usually don't post from work but this need to be noted and discussed!!! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1341836302 For those of you who can not check the link out: it's a collection of gaming consoles with a bid of $11,600.00 Yes that's eleven thousand six hundred bucks. Granted it has some nice pieces I can't add it up to that amount. Francois From rhudson at cnonline.net Wed Apr 3 10:13:34 2002 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:57 2005 Subject: Computers Manufactured in 1986 References: <000701c1da3f$e48f5cc0$e401a8c0@tegjeff.com> <3CA9E424.6030700@cnonline.net> <3CA9F071.60F74645@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <3CAB2A2E.8040509@cnonline.net> Hmmm PDP-1 eh? I could emulate it .. ;^> Ben Franchuk wrote: > Ron Hudson wrote: > >>>> (What I am trying to do together here is get a setup of only stuff made in >>>> 1986.... It'd be neat to have a system exactly the same age as me :)) >>> >> Gosh, I was born in 1958, >> >> Anybody got a spare ENIAC ? >> >> Perhaps an abacus? >> >> :^) > > > How about writing on a CAVE wall. *** Ducks *** > > Now do you one with or with out TUBES? > Looking a list here http://members.iinet.net.au/~dgreen/timeline.html > 1956 was a great year for TUBE computers. > 1960 was a great year Transistor computers. ( Hmm I could get a PDP-1 ) From dquebbeman at acm.org Wed Apr 3 10:18:56 2002 From: dquebbeman at acm.org (Douglas H. Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:57 2005 Subject: Seeking Old Wirth-Jensen Pascal Book Message-ID: <002701c1db2b$4171ac90$e401a8c0@tegjeff.com> > Douglas H. Quebbeman wrote: > > >>>PASCAL User Manual and Report > >>>Authors: Jensen & Wirth > >>>Pub: Springer-Verlag > > >>bookfinder.com throws up multiple copies.... > > > Cool... do you think I can trade some S-100 boards for one? > > Ah, you did not specify that you wanted to trade. Well, I've got a PTC 2KRO with one or two 1702s in it; a label indicates some kind of code, probably a boot ROM for CP/M, but until I dust off the SOL and fire it up, I've no way to tell (My Needham EPROM burner doesn't go back that far). > > What? Bookfinder.com won't do ClassicCmp trades? > > You could always offer. About time we regressed back to a > barter economy. Agreed, but the taxman's got his eye on that, too... -dq -- -Douglas Hurst Quebbeman (DougQ at ixsnayamspayIgLou.com) [Call me "Doug"] Surgically excise the pig-latin from my e-mail address in order to reply "The large print giveth, and the small print taketh away." -Tom Waits From doc at mdrconsult.com Wed Apr 3 10:19:23 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:57 2005 Subject: Language Converter (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: See comments below: On Wed, 3 Apr 2002, John Lawson wrote: > Forwarded for any possible help; REPLY TO MR. DOWNMAN, not to me. I'm > just the nosey forwarder.... > > How does one convert old Smith Corona Word Processor Diskettes for use on > the hard drive of my Windows XP System. They contain years of hard work > and valuable imformation ??? The diskettes are low density 740KB size. > Can somebody help.?? Jim VK4FAD I'm terribly tempted to send Mr. Downman email explaining Oerstedts, coercivity, and track widths.... Doc From allain at panix.com Wed Apr 3 10:24:25 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:57 2005 Subject: The Future End of Classic Computing References: <007501c1da11$4eb70140$7685d642@Smith.earthlink.net> <20020403145043.GC880545@uiuc.edu> Message-ID: <003b01c1db2c$06157cc0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> >> And as for restricting knowledge that could be used to commit crimes, >> well, you'd better remove the brains of most of the population right now... >Has everyone read _1984_? I just finished it and it's quite good ;) anyway, >very instructive, and frightening, on this point... Big ideas... here's my $0.02, anyway: Apparently the idea of thoughtcrime is central to the upcoming SKG/Speilberg SF film "Minority Report", which I just heard about. - - - While the movie may be independent this, there are areas of study in social philosophy which actively seek to protect free _informed_ choice. Whenever you hear "It's what the people want", beware, because somebody is smelling a weakness and wants to make a Billion off of it. Not calling it a weakness is the evil in it. Oh yeah, there are times where the masses are served for their better good, but it may be something like less that 50% of the time. (greedy self interest note: anybody know how I can keep a copy of the MR trailer on my PC for repeated viewing?) John A. From rhudson at cnonline.net Wed Apr 3 10:32:35 2002 From: rhudson at cnonline.net (Ron Hudson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:57 2005 Subject: some what OT: FW: Adios, Internet Radio References: <02Apr3.100803est.119047@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> Message-ID: <3CAB2EA3.1060403@cnonline.net> Jeff Hellige wrote: >> I really, really, really wanted this to be a joke. It's really,really >> not. > > > This kind of thing explains why I no longer buy CD's or movies, when > in the past I spent quite a bit of money on tapes and albums. > Netflix.com is my source for movies, and at $20/month it offers much > better value than going to the theatre. Piracy isn't hurting the > recording industry, it's their greed coupled to the fact that they no > longer offer good value. I will not support an industry that tries to > put these strangleholds on what I can do. > > Jeff Unfortunately all too many of the sheeple still do buy cd and movies, and attend movies at the theater/drive in for the prices asked. All I want is my fair use! I would even pay the prices asked if i can rip the music for use in my own laptop or mp3 player From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Wed Apr 3 10:37:03 2002 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:57 2005 Subject: IBM PS/1 Recovery/Install diskettes available Message-ID: <27.25403371.29dc89af@aol.com> In a message dated 4/3/2002 8:33:45 AM Central Standard Time, r_beaudry@hotmail.com writes: > >><< A bit too new to be on topic, but... I was scrounging through some > >> >>stuff > >>yesterday, and unearthed a set of original diskettes for an IBM PS/1. > >> >> > > > >do you know what model PS/1? > > Well.... I only have the disks, and not a PS/1. They were part of another > lot of stuff that I got... > > Is there a way to tell from a file on the disk, or some number on the > outside of the disk? > > Unfortunately, I've been away from IBM for several years now. The early models used 9 or so, and the later more standard models used ~14 or more. If not claimed, I will take them. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020403/8ba097e9/attachment.html From allain at panix.com Wed Apr 3 10:34:33 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:57 2005 Subject: DEC swap meet?(RE: Off Topic? PDP 11 1134/1145's) References: Message-ID: <008f01c1db2d$70226c80$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > Maybe we can get something going up here in New Haven, CT? I'm all for something like this. NYC/Boston is my route, so New Haven is right on it. I've driven as far as Rochester (350?mi) for such purposes. Washington, DC would be in my range. Maynard, MA would be a neat choice for historic reasons. John A. From CordaAJ at nswc.navy.mil Wed Apr 3 10:42:44 2002 From: CordaAJ at nswc.navy.mil (Corda Albert J DLVA) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:57 2005 Subject: DEC swap meet?(RE: Off Topic? PDP 11 1134/1145's) Message-ID: <7B4C28C84831D211BFA200805F9F34561A8F91@nswcdlvaex04.nswc.navy.mil> I'd be interested on an occasional basis... I live in Virginia, but I grew up (and most of my family lives in) New Haven, so it would be simply another visit home for me. -al- -acorda@1bigred.com > -----Original Message----- > From: Linc Fessenden [mailto:linc@thelinuxlink.net] > Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2002 10:03 AM > To: David Woyciesjes > Cc: port-vax@netbsd.org; classiccmp@classiccmp.org (E-mail) > Subject: Re: DEC swap meet?(RE: Off Topic? PDP 11 1134/1145's) > > > On Wed, 3 Apr 2002, David Woyciesjes wrote: > > > (cc'd to ClassicCmp list, I'm sure there's interest there...) > > > > > From: Brian Hechinger > > > > > > On Tue, Apr 02, 2002 at 12:26:23PM -0800, Lyle Bickley wrote: > > > > All, > > > > > > > > May I make another suggestion? A bunch of us here in > the Silicon Valley > > > are > > > > fans of old DEC equipment. We get 'em and restore 'em. > Some favor PDPs > > > (one > > > > guy even has two DEC 10's), some favor the smaller 11's > and others of us > > > like > > > > old VAXes. At any rate, we meet once a month for lunch and swap > > > stories, > > > > tell what stuff we've picked up, etc. All of us are > willing to trade > > > > equipment or donate books and equipment to each other. > We studiously > > > avoid > > > > EBAY. > > > > > > so who's on the east coast that would like to do this? > i'm in philly, and > > > i > > > know isildur is in pittsburg. don't know where we would > want to meet > > > though, > > > since some people would have to travel far for that. > thoughts? ideas? > > > -- > > > > > I'd be up for it. A flea-market swap-meet kinda thing, > right? Maybe > > we can get something going up here in New Haven, CT? > > I am in as well.. Problem is I live in between Isildur and > Brian so PA is > looking better and better :-) > > -Linc Fessenden > > In the Beginning there was nothing, which exploded - Yeah right... > > From doc at mdrconsult.com Wed Apr 3 10:43:14 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:57 2005 Subject: CARP Tariff and The Future End of Classic Computing In-Reply-To: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E01784358@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 3 Apr 2002, Christopher Smith wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Wayne M. Smith [mailto:wmsmith@earthlink.net] > > > > > that enable others to engage in mass distribution. > > Doesn't it make as much sense to go after those involved in "mass > > distribution" > > > > of the circumvention device, such as DeCSS? > You may as well put Fred in jail for Xenocopy, in fact ;) They probably will, very soon. :( Joe Rigdon's forwarded piece concerning CARP's hijacking of the internet radio broadcasters is a case VERY relevant to this discussion. (CARP is the Copyright Arbitration Royalty Panel) As has been pointed out, all the activities the DMCA was advertised as targetting were already illegal. Legislating enforcement of existing legislation is currently very popular in the US, but it has _never_ been effective. Duh.... What the DMCA has really accomplished is to put much of the authority to administer copyright law into the hands of beurocratic agencies. Agencies who are not accountable to, or easily accessible by, the general voting public. Not coincidentally, they are also much easier to bribe^H^H^H^H influence by lobbying. Doc From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Wed Apr 3 10:41:58 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:57 2005 Subject: Birthyear computers References: Message-ID: <3CAB30D6.EF49A0EE@jetnet.ab.ca> "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" wrote: > Even if they would sell me Stonehenge, I couldn't afford the shipping, and > don't have enough storage space. Some people have made a copy of stonehenge in the North East USA, out of cement. But they forget to read the Firmware Manual that states the rocks have to be re-adusted if moved. > -- > Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From bob at jftr.com Wed Apr 3 10:45:15 2002 From: bob at jftr.com (bob@jftr.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:57 2005 Subject: Language Converter (fwd) References: Message-ID: <009101c1db2e$eede9e30$5508000a@crosstier.local> Hi .. Try this link. http://www.computing.net/windows95/wwwboard/forum/101205.html Does this sound right? -- Bob Flanders ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Lawson" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2002 10:38 AM Subject: Language Converter (fwd) > > > Forwarded for any possible help; REPLY TO MR. DOWNMAN, not to me. I'm > just the nosey forwarder.... > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 17:15:52 +1000 > From: Jim Downman & Assoc. > Reply-To: dxsoft@yahoogroups.com > To: dxsoft@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Language Converter > > How does one convert old Smith Corona Word Processor Diskettes for use on > the hard drive of my Windows XP System. They contain years of hard work > and valuable imformation ??? The diskettes are low density 740KB size. > Can somebody help.?? Jim VK4FAD > > --------end fwd----------- > > > From wilson at dbit.com Wed Apr 3 10:45:28 2002 From: wilson at dbit.com (John Wilson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:57 2005 Subject: DEC swap meet?(RE: Off Topic? PDP 11 1134/1145's) Message-ID: <200204031645.g33GjS230079@dbit.dbit.com> From: "John Allain" >> Maybe we can get something going up here in New Haven, CT? > >I'm all for something like this. NYC/Boston is my route, so New >Haven is right on it. I've driven as far as Rochester (350?mi) for >such purposes. Washington, DC would be in my range. >Maynard, MA would be a neat choice for historic reasons. Sounds good to me too, I'm near Springfield MA so I can hit anywhere in NE easily, or eastern NY. John Wilson D Bit From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Wed Apr 3 10:48:24 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:57 2005 Subject: Computers Manufactured in 1986 References: <000701c1da3f$e48f5cc0$e401a8c0@tegjeff.com> <3CA9E424.6030700@cnonline.net> <3CA9F071.60F74645@jetnet.ab.ca> <3CAB2A2E.8040509@cnonline.net> Message-ID: <3CAB3258.97E0CC70@jetnet.ab.ca> Ron Hudson wrote: > > Hmmm PDP-1 eh? > > I could emulate it .. ;^> Yep ... http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/decemu.html -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From doc at mdrconsult.com Wed Apr 3 10:50:28 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:57 2005 Subject: WTF? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 3 Apr 2002 fauradon@beckman.com wrote: > I usually don't post from work but this need to be noted and discussed!!! > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1341836302 > For those of you who can not check the link out: it's a collection of gaming > consoles with a bid of $11,600.00 > Yes that's eleven thousand six hundred bucks. Granted it has some nice pieces I > can't add it up to that amount. Heh. That's not even the asking bid, that's _current_! Sometimes ya want what ya want, I guess. Doc From dquebbeman at acm.org Wed Apr 3 10:56:37 2002 From: dquebbeman at acm.org (Douglas H. Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:57 2005 Subject: Computers Manufactured in 1986 Message-ID: <004301c1db30$851518b0$e401a8c0@tegjeff.com> > Hmmm PDP-1 eh? > > I could emulate it .. ;^> If you do, try separating the graphics display emulator from the computer emulator... then we could use it for yet still other emulated systems! -dq -Douglas Hurst Quebbeman (DougQ at ixsnayamspayIgLou.com) [Call me "Doug"] Surgically excise the pig-latin from my e-mail address in order to reply "The large print giveth, and the small print taketh away." -Tom Waits From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Wed Apr 3 11:09:45 2002 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (Allison) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:57 2005 Subject: Computers Manufactured in 1986^H^H56" Message-ID: <001801c1db32$9c5be380$3a7b7b7b@ajp> From: Douglas H. Quebbeman >> PDP-8e of various forms, Cincinattai Millichron CM2000/2100/2200 to > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > >Cincinnati Milacron Ok, since your so good as to fix the spelling, maybe you know where one is? I woked with them briefly in '73, never seen them since. Allison From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Wed Apr 3 11:16:27 2002 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (Allison) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:57 2005 Subject: DEC swap meet?(RE: Off Topic? PDP 11 1134/1145's) Message-ID: <004b01c1db33$4aeac740$3a7b7b7b@ajp> A good choice is the MIT flea, held every 3rd sunday starting April through September. It's in Cambridge MA (nearly Boston.) Allison -----Original Message----- From: John Allain To: port-vax@netbsd.org ; classiccmp@classiccmp.org Date: Wednesday, April 03, 2002 12:00 PM Subject: Re: DEC swap meet?(RE: Off Topic? PDP 11 1134/1145's) >> Maybe we can get something going up here in New Haven, CT? > >I'm all for something like this. NYC/Boston is my route, so New >Haven is right on it. I've driven as far as Rochester (350?mi) for >such purposes. Washington, DC would be in my range. >Maynard, MA would be a neat choice for historic reasons. > >John A. > > From CordaAJ at nswc.navy.mil Wed Apr 3 11:14:17 2002 From: CordaAJ at nswc.navy.mil (Corda Albert J DLVA) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:57 2005 Subject: DEC swap meet?(RE: Off Topic? PDP 11 1134/1145's) Message-ID: <7B4C28C84831D211BFA200805F9F34561A8F92@nswcdlvaex04.nswc.navy.mil> I'd also be quite happy with Washington DC (It's just an hour or so away from me :-) additionally, it has a number of interesting sites to visit (Smithsonian?) for those who haven't been here before. -al- -acorda@1bigred.com > -----Original Message----- > From: John Allain [mailto:allain@panix.com] > Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2002 11:35 AM > To: port-vax@netbsd.org; classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: DEC swap meet?(RE: Off Topic? PDP 11 1134/1145's) > > > > Maybe we can get something going up here in New Haven, CT? > > I'm all for something like this. NYC/Boston is my route, so New > Haven is right on it. I've driven as far as Rochester (350?mi) for > such purposes. Washington, DC would be in my range. > Maynard, MA would be a neat choice for historic reasons. > > John A. > > From sipke at wxs.nl Wed Apr 3 11:22:14 2002 From: sipke at wxs.nl (Sipke de Wal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:57 2005 Subject: Language Converter (fwd) References: Message-ID: <005001c1db34$19633940$030101ac@boll.casema.net> I think he should start with Vogon Poetry ! Sipke de Wal ------------------------------------------- "Never let anybody read Vogon poetry to you!" ~from~ the Hitchhikers guide to the galaxy ------------------------------------------- http://xgistor.ath.cx ------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: Doc To: Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2002 6:19 PM Subject: Re: Language Converter (fwd) > See comments below: > > On Wed, 3 Apr 2002, John Lawson wrote: > > > Forwarded for any possible help; REPLY TO MR. DOWNMAN, not to me. I'm > > just the nosey forwarder.... > > > > > How does one convert old Smith Corona Word Processor Diskettes for use on > > the hard drive of my Windows XP System. They contain years of hard work > > and valuable imformation ??? The diskettes are low density 740KB size. > > Can somebody help.?? Jim VK4FAD > > I'm terribly tempted to send Mr. Downman email explaining Oerstedts, > coercivity, and track widths.... > > Doc > From webmaster at bidstogo.biz Wed Apr 3 11:36:03 2002 From: webmaster at bidstogo.biz (BidsToGo) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:57 2005 Subject: "BidsToGo" is places to go, things to do Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020403/55e63f6c/attachment.html From bill at timeguy.com Wed Apr 3 11:41:39 2002 From: bill at timeguy.com (Bill Richman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:57 2005 Subject: Core Memory Interfacing? Message-ID: <20020403113354.I56922-100000@outpost.timeguy.com> Right off, let me say that I know next to nothing about the realities of using core memory. I only know that it looks like pretty cool stuff to play with. Would I be completely off my tree to try to build a core memory interface from scratch, assuming I had a pre-strung core frame with all the cores and wires intact? When I say "interface", I mean basically something that will let me talk to the core from a PC or from my recently-completed Mark-8 using TTL or CMOS levels. If I have a 64x64 frame, would I just need something on the order of 256 driver transistors (one to drive each of the X and Y wires in either direction) plus some kind of op-amp or comparator circuit to monitor the sense wire (is there just one of these per frame?) and determine whether or not a bit has flipped during a read pulse? Or are there all sorts of ghosts and goblins lurking in core memory that I don't want to confront? From pat at cart-server.purdueriots.com Wed Apr 3 12:02:25 2002 From: pat at cart-server.purdueriots.com (pat@cart-server.purdueriots.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:57 2005 Subject: IBM PS/1 Recovery/Install diskettes available In-Reply-To: <27.25403371.29dc89af@aol.com> Message-ID: Don't remeber the model number, but the 286-based micro-thin PS/1 my parents bought back in '90 had 13 disks for it's 'install/backup set'. The system was about 2in thick, 12in wide, included a Mouse, PS/1 software crap, IBM DOS 4.0, MSWorks for Dos, 1M of RAM, a 1.4M floppy drive and 40M IDE hard drive. the included 12" monitor also included they system's power supply (how the thing was made so dang small). Also included a weird internal 2400baud modem with a non-standard interface. The system got tossed (not sure I can say I'm sad about it either) when my parents move to a condo a couple years ago. -- Pat On Wed, 3 Apr 2002 SUPRDAVE@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 4/3/2002 8:33:45 AM Central Standard Time, > r_beaudry@hotmail.com writes: > > > > >><< A bit too new to be on topic, but... I was scrounging through some > > >> >>stuff > > >>yesterday, and unearthed a set of original diskettes for an IBM PS/1. > > >> >> > > > > > >do you know what model PS/1? > > > > Well.... I only have the disks, and not a PS/1. They were part of another > > lot of stuff that I got... > > > > Is there a way to tell from a file on the disk, or some number on the > > outside of the disk? > > > > > > Unfortunately, I've been away from IBM for several years now. The early > models used 9 or so, and the later more standard models used ~14 or more. If > not claimed, I will take them. > From stanb at dial.pipex.com Wed Apr 3 12:07:23 2002 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:57 2005 Subject: Soldering and other skills (was Re: QL-Quality (Was: ZX-81 Question)) In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 03 Apr 2002 01:41:56 MDT." Message-ID: <200204031807.TAA22328@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, Tothwolf said: > On Wed, 3 Apr 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > > Which is why I prefer real 'Multicore' brand solder... > > I've been using solder made by Alpha Metals, and have had very good luck > with it. The flux gives off nearly no smell, and does not turn brown when > heated. I imagine it is some type of no-clean flux, but I still use flux > remover to clean it from any boards I work on. I use something similar by "On-LINE" (made in Taiwan!) sold in the UK by RadioSpares. Highly reccomended. -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From stanb at dial.pipex.com Wed Apr 3 12:00:14 2002 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:57 2005 Subject: Computers Manufactured in 1986^H^H56 In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 02 Apr 2002 23:02:08 -0000." <20020403040025.GHWJ17738.tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: <200204031800.TAA22280@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, jpero@sympatico.ca said: > > > > I suppose to commemorate my birth, I'll need to get an S-100 box > > > > of some sort, or possibly: > > ...snip...snip...snip > > > > > > Well, for a birthyear computer, anyone know where I > > > can find a slightly-used IBM 709? I used to have the > > > IBM 711 Card Reader and 716 Line Printer... > > > > > > > > > > > > -dq > > Well, i add to this pot: > > My birth-year is 1972, in that era what typical 'puter small enough > to fit on desk or on floor (tower) and easy to ship? All of a sudden I feel _very_ old ;-( There were no working electronic computers when I was born...even Collosus was still a few months from completion.... -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From foo at siconic.com Wed Apr 3 04:27:44 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:57 2005 Subject: By now OT: Re: The Future End of Classic Computing In-Reply-To: <20020403144933.GB880545@uiuc.edu> Message-ID: On Wed, 3 Apr 2002, Dan Wright wrote: > Then we should ban knife stores, gun shops, etc...hell, anything that > sells or distributes anything of any kind. you know, any object can be > used to commit a crime. It is a logical fallacy to draw an arbitrary > line between distributing a computer program or source code that could > be used to commit a crime and distributing a material object that can be > used to commit a crime. There is no philosophical distinction between > the two, even if there is a literal distinction. Once it becomes OK to > ban the distribution of DeCSS or like computer programs, how much > farther do you need to go to ban distribution of firearms? from there to > knives? Since the legal precedent is in place that it's ok to ban the > distribution of ANYTHING (or, equally important, any IDEA) because it > MIGHT be used to commit a crime, we are on a very slippery slope and > something needs to be done about it NOW before we fall off the bottom. I'm just waiting for the end, when all the bad decisions and worthless policy being promulgated by our gubment leads to the complete collapse of our civilization. Then, complete anarchy will reign and we'll be able to do whatever the hell we please. And the only thing the record execs will be able to do is standby and watch. Ha ha. In the meantime, I'll continue to use Morpheus (or whatever replaces it) and buy used CDs. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From dquebbeman at acm.org Wed Apr 3 12:28:10 2002 From: dquebbeman at acm.org (Douglas H. Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:57 2005 Subject: Computers Manufactured in 1986^H^H56" Message-ID: <006201c1db3d$4ec20270$e401a8c0@tegjeff.com> > From: Douglas H. Quebbeman > > >> PDP-8e of various forms, Cincinattai Millichron CM2000/2100/2200 to > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > > >Cincinnati Milacron > > Ok, since your so good as to fix the spelling, maybe you > know where oneis? > > I woked with them briefly in '73, never seen them since. Last one I saw was in the Humanities Department at IU, hooked to a CDC 607 tape drive and running one of the first lazer light shows, called Soleil, in 1977. They *may* still have it... or someone associated with the school probably does. Don Byrd was the guy working with it, he's up at some school in Boston now, I think... The PDP-8 clone I'm looking for is the Harris/COPE 1200... -dq -Douglas Hurst Quebbeman (DougQ at ixsnayamspayIgLou.com) [Call me "Doug"] Surgically excise the pig-latin from my e-mail address in order to reply "The large print giveth, and the small print taketh away." -Tom Waits From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Wed Apr 3 12:31:00 2002 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (Allison) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:57 2005 Subject: Core Memory Interfacing? Message-ID: <001701c1db3d$b591be00$3a7b7b7b@ajp> Not that many trasistors more like 128 diodes. You would need to know: 1-The switching current for the core: 2-the half select current(related to #1): 3-Time to switch 4-is it a 2d or 3d array(word or bit frame) 5-single sense/inhibit or serperate sense and inhibit lines. Words are driven by the same drivers as an individual bit so that saves parts. Generally there is an array of multiplexed devices to drive the array, for a 64x64 that would likely mean only 128 driver devices (best done as integrated stuff like TI 754xx parts) and a lot of steering diodes. You will need a sense amp per bit and an inhibit driver per bit. Most core systems use a delay line to get the timing as the cycle is RMW (read/modify or rewrite) as core is destructive read out (generally) so you have to write the data back. The time you sense the bit change is tied to the core used and varies some with temperature and current. Also the sense amp must discriminate from noise and a valid pulse related to a bit change. Oh, it will be slow. Most core system were over .5us{500nS} Tacc and Tcy are typically 1.0-1.6us{1000-1600nS} . It's a rewarding task but non-trivial nor small. FYI: you need a heafty low noise multiple voltage power supply to run it. Me, I'm looking at a 16k semiconductor memory replacement for a PDP-8f that is simple. This would be a resource to those that have found an -8 without enough core or to replace bad core. This is of course a IMCFT project. Allison {IMCFT >>> In My Copious Free Time} -----Original Message----- From: Bill Richman To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Date: Wednesday, April 03, 2002 12:58 PM Subject: Core Memory Interfacing? >Right off, let me say that I know next to nothing about the realities of >using core memory. I only know that it looks like pretty cool stuff to >play with. Would I be completely off my tree to try to build a core >memory interface from scratch, assuming I had a pre-strung core frame with >all the cores and wires intact? When I say "interface", I mean basically >something that will let me talk to the core from a PC or from my >recently-completed Mark-8 using TTL or CMOS levels. If I have a 64x64 >frame, would I just need something on the order of 256 driver transistors >(one to drive each of the X and Y wires in either direction) plus some >kind of op-amp or comparator circuit to monitor the sense wire (is there >just one of these per frame?) and determine whether or not a bit has >flipped during a read pulse? Or are there all sorts of ghosts and goblins >lurking in core memory that I don't want to confront? > > > > From foo at siconic.com Wed Apr 3 04:31:35 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:57 2005 Subject: The Future End of Classic Computing In-Reply-To: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E01784358@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 3 Apr 2002, Christopher Smith wrote: > You may as well put Fred in jail for Xenocopy, in fact ;) DOWN WITH FRED! EVIL PURVEYOR OF ILLEGAL TOOLS OF CRIME!!! FIE! FIE! Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Wed Apr 3 12:57:05 2002 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:57 2005 Subject: line monitor? Interview 3600 Message-ID: I found what looks like to be a line monitor. It has two RS-232C DB25 connectors on the back, labeled connector 1 and connector 2, there is also a barrel type connector labeled video out. The front panel which is hinged at the bottom and is the keyboard, folds down and reveals a small monitor. The keys appear membrane contact type. There are buttons labeled send and receive. There is a QWERTY keyboard and number pad and additional buttons. The label is Atlantic Richfield and immediately below it is Interview 3600. It appears to be the size and form factor of a Compaq luggable. There are no card slots or other openings on the back besides the power connector, 2 DB25 connections and external video. Has anybody seen one of these? I suppose if could be some kind of disk or interface exerciser. Google turns up nothing. Thanks Mike mmcfadden@cmh.edu -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020403/0996667a/attachment.html From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Apr 3 13:01:21 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:57 2005 Subject: The Future End of Classic Computing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > On Wed, 3 Apr 2002, Christopher Smith wrote: > > You may as well put Fred in jail for Xenocopy, in fact ;) On Wed, 3 Apr 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > DOWN WITH FRED! EVIL PURVEYOR OF ILLEGAL TOOLS OF CRIME!!! FIE! FIE! You'd better start worrying about, if and when they come and take me away, whether I might tell them who I supplied stuff to. Twenty years ago, when I wrote the first versions of XenoCopy, I thought that it would make sense to make contact with some of the OEMs at trade shows to make sure that I got accurate information about their formats. At NCC (which was once the biggest show in the US, soon thereafter passed by by Comdex), booth staff at several manufacturers were incapable of imagining ANY possible use of disk format conversion other than the making of unauthorized copies of their proprietary software. In fact, representatives of TWO companies threatened to sue me if I included their disk formats! Although I was out of town, and staying in a hotel room, I stayed up late that night to make sure that theirs were the very next formats that I added. But neither company kept their promise of providing me with massive free publicity. The two companies were: Intertec (Superbrain) Televideo -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Wed Apr 3 13:02:56 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:57 2005 Subject: Core Memory Interfacing? References: <20020403113354.I56922-100000@outpost.timeguy.com> Message-ID: <3CAB51E0.9B3700E8@jetnet.ab.ca> Bill Richman wrote: > > Right off, let me say that I know next to nothing about the realities of > using core memory. I only know that it looks like pretty cool stuff to > play with. Would I be completely off my tree to try to build a core > memory interface from scratch, assuming I had a pre-strung core frame with > all the cores and wires intact? When I say "interface", I mean basically > something that will let me talk to the core from a PC or from my > recently-completed Mark-8 using TTL or CMOS levels. If I have a 64x64 > frame, would I just need something on the order of 256 driver transistors > (one to drive each of the X and Y wires in either direction) plus some > kind of op-amp or comparator circuit to monitor the sense wire (is there > just one of these per frame?) and determine whether or not a bit has > flipped during a read pulse? Or are there all sorts of ghosts and goblins > lurking in core memory that I don't want to confront? At one time they made CORE memory driver IC's for driving the lines. If you can find any of the old guys they would be handy. -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Wed Apr 3 13:04:38 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:57 2005 Subject: Computers Manufactured in 1986^H^H56 References: <200204031800.TAA22280@citadel.metropolis.local> Message-ID: <3CAB5246.2E6CCFA5@jetnet.ab.ca> Stan Barr wrote: > > Hi, > > jpero@sympatico.ca said: > > > > > I suppose to commemorate my birth, I'll need to get an S-100 box > > > > > of some sort, or possibly: > > > ...snip...snip...snip > > > > > > > > Well, for a birthyear computer, anyone know where I > > > > can find a slightly-used IBM 709? I used to have the > > > > IBM 711 Card Reader and 716 Line Printer... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -dq > > > > Well, i add to this pot: > > > > My birth-year is 1972, in that era what typical 'puter small enough > > to fit on desk or on floor (tower) and easy to ship? > > All of a sudden I feel _very_ old ;-( There were no working electronic > computers when I was born...even Collosus was still a few months from > completion.... Well you could go after the mechanical ones :) -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From jrice at texoma.net Wed Apr 3 13:14:29 2002 From: jrice at texoma.net (James L. Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:57 2005 Subject: Computers Manufactured in 1986^H^H56 References: <200204031800.TAA22280@citadel.metropolis.local> Message-ID: <3CAB5495.4010209@texoma.net> Just out of curiosity, what was available in 1954? I probably coulfdn't afford the power and a/c for all of the vacuum tubes. James Stan Barr wrote: > Hi, > > jpero@sympatico.ca said: > >>>>>I suppose to commemorate my birth, I'll need to get an S-100 box >>>>>of some sort, or possibly: >>>>> >>>...snip...snip...snip >>> >>>>Well, for a birthyear computer, anyone know where I >>>>can find a slightly-used IBM 709? I used to have the >>>>IBM 711 Card Reader and 716 Line Printer... >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>-dq >>>> >>Well, i add to this pot: >> >>My birth-year is 1972, in that era what typical 'puter small enough >>to fit on desk or on floor (tower) and easy to ship? >> > > All of a sudden I feel _very_ old ;-( There were no working electronic > computers when I was born...even Collosus was still a few months from > completion.... > > From mythtech at mac.com Wed Apr 3 13:14:14 2002 From: mythtech at mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:57 2005 Subject: The Future End of Classic Computing Message-ID: >(greedy self interest note: anybody know how I can keep a > copy of the MR trailer on my PC for repeated viewing?) Rumor has it (haven't gotten around to trying, as most trailers suck anyway), if it is streamed with QuickTime, and you have the QuickTime 4.0 or earlier player, you can bypass their anti-save ability. Also, I know a number of the non savable streams become saveable in QuickTime 5.0 IF it is registered as a Pro version. Humm... better send Apple's QT team to jail, sounds like they are releasing software that can bypass copy protection. :-) -chris From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Apr 3 13:23:45 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:57 2005 Subject: Language Converter (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > How does one convert old Smith Corona Word Processor Diskettes for use on > > the hard drive of my Windows XP System. They contain years of hard work > > and valuable imformation ??? The diskettes are low density 740KB size. > > Can somebody help.?? Jim VK4FAD > On Wed, 3 Apr 2002, Doc wrote: > I'm terribly tempted to send Mr. Downman email explaining Oerstedts, > coercivity, and track widths.... Naaaah. But you could address his subject line, and discuss the concept of a "LANGUAGE converter". -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com DogEars From fernande at internet1.net Wed Apr 3 13:29:15 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:57 2005 Subject: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New" PDP-8)) References: Message-ID: <3CAB580B.7090806@internet1.net> Doc, Mag makes some quite small flashlights now. I believe they have one that is keychain sized. That would be an aweful small gun barrel, plus if it's on your key chain, it goes in the basket when you go through the metal detector :-) I really should pick one of those up myself. Hmm, I DO need to go to Lowes today, any way :-) Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Doc wrote: > I haven't stopped carrying them at all. But I fly a lot, so the "all > times" part is no longer accurate. They tell me that a MicroMag > flashlight looks too much like a pistol barrel on the 'scope. They get > very upset about it. > > Doc > > > From csmith at amdocs.com Wed Apr 3 13:29:33 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:57 2005 Subject: The Future End of Classic Computing Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E0178435F@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) [mailto:cisin@xenosoft.com] > At NCC (which was once the biggest show in the US, soon > thereafter passed > by by Comdex), booth staff at several manufacturers were incapable of > imagining ANY possible use of disk format conversion other > than the making > of unauthorized copies of their proprietary software. In fact, Yes, folks, people really are That Stupid. I wouldn't have suggested this if I didn't think it was a possibility, but I find it incredibly funny that it's actually been tried already. :) > representatives of TWO companies threatened to sue me if I > included their > disk formats! > Although I was out of town, and staying in a hotel room, I > stayed up late > that night to make sure that theirs were the very next formats that I > added. You did exactly what I would have done in that situation, perhaps with a prominent note in the manual as to why. > But neither company kept their promise of providing me with > massive free > publicity. My only worry is that these days, they might actually go through with it. Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Apr 3 13:43:31 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:57 2005 Subject: When programming is outlawed, only outlaws will program In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 3 Apr 2002, Doc wrote: > > You may as well put Fred in jail for Xenocopy, in fact ;) > They probably will, very soon. :( Did John Draper write "Easy Writer" WHILE he was in jail? From csmith at amdocs.com Wed Apr 3 13:51:20 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:57 2005 Subject: The Future End of Classic Computing Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E01784363@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Chris [mailto:mythtech@mac.com] > Humm... better send Apple's QT team to jail, sounds like they are > releasing software that can bypass copy protection. :-) Not only that, but the OS team too, since their OS allows one to just copy files all over the place willy nilly! ;) Get those nasty people at IEEE, while you're at it, since some of their standards are designed to facilitate "data interchange." Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Wed Apr 3 14:08:35 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:57 2005 Subject: Core Memory Interfacing? In-Reply-To: <20020403113354.I56922-100000@outpost.timeguy.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020403150835.00849570@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Bill, You're a man after my own heart! I've been thinking about this for some time. I once had some NICE small core planes (16k I think) out of a HP communications analyzer and I think they would have been just about perfect for this. I had too many other projects at the time so I sold them but I know where there are some more analyzers so I may grab them and swipe the core from them. I found the service manual for the analyzer so I had the pin out for the entire machine including the core. (I still have it). IIRC the core module was about 5 inches square and had all the drivers and sense amps on it so that might make things easier. However there are some things that you have to do with core and I don't know if they handled in hardware or if the OS had to take care of it. For example, reading core is destructive, that is it erases the contents so you have to store the contents back into it before you do anything else (unless you don't care if it's lost). That seems like it would be easy enough to do in HW but I don't know if that's what they did. Joe At 11:41 AM 4/3/02 -0600, you wrote: >Right off, let me say that I know next to nothing about the realities of >using core memory. I only know that it looks like pretty cool stuff to >play with. Would I be completely off my tree to try to build a core >memory interface from scratch, assuming I had a pre-strung core frame with >all the cores and wires intact? When I say "interface", I mean basically >something that will let me talk to the core from a PC or from my >recently-completed Mark-8 using TTL or CMOS levels. If I have a 64x64 >frame, would I just need something on the order of 256 driver transistors >(one to drive each of the X and Y wires in either direction) plus some >kind of op-amp or comparator circuit to monitor the sense wire (is there >just one of these per frame?) and determine whether or not a bit has >flipped during a read pulse? Or are there all sorts of ghosts and goblins >lurking in core memory that I don't want to confront? > > > > From sloboyko at yahoo.com Wed Apr 3 14:27:46 2002 From: sloboyko at yahoo.com (Loboyko Steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:57 2005 Subject: Core Memory Interfacing? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20020403150835.00849570@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <20020403202746.67197.qmail@web11804.mail.yahoo.com> Having the drivers is important. I've looked in vain for the 75xxx series chips described in the famous 1976-ish Byte Magazine article on core memory that has been mentioned before. Without those, its a heck of a lot of discretes, and there's no way around it. Too bad, because I have some really nice core memory with the diodes only that deserves to do more than hang on a wall. I also suspect that because of all of the unknowns involved regarding the magnetic properties of the core that you use, the way to go about it is to put a lot of pots on a single driver/receiver setup, tweek em to the middle, and repeat. My understanding of core is that there are thermistors involved also, and that core had a very narrow range of temperature operation. There were even programs designed specifically to cause "hot spots" in the core in order to test it (you'd have to know the physical layout of the core to pull this trick off). --- Joe wrote: > Bill, > > You're a man after my own heart! I've been > thinking about this for some time. I once had some > NICE small core planes (16k I think) out of a HP > communications analyzer and I think they would have > been just about perfect for this. I had too many > other projects at the time so I sold them but I know > where there are some more analyzers so I may grab > them and swipe the core from them. I found the > service manual for the analyzer so I had the pin out > for the entire machine including the core. (I still > have it). IIRC the core module was about 5 inches > square and had all the drivers and sense amps on it > so that might make things easier. However there are > some things that you have to do with core and I > don't know if they handled in hardware or if the OS > had to take care of it. For example, reading core is > destructive, that is it erases the contents so you > have to store the contents back into it before you > do anything else (unless you don't care if it's > lost). That seems like it wou! > ld be easy enough to do in HW but I don't know if > that's what they did. > > Joe > > At 11:41 AM 4/3/02 -0600, you wrote: > >Right off, let me say that I know next to nothing > about the realities of > >using core memory. I only know that it looks like > pretty cool stuff to > >play with. Would I be completely off my tree to > try to build a core > >memory interface from scratch, assuming I had a > pre-strung core frame with > >all the cores and wires intact? When I say > "interface", I mean basically > >something that will let me talk to the core from a > PC or from my > >recently-completed Mark-8 using TTL or CMOS levels. > If I have a 64x64 > >frame, would I just need something on the order of > 256 driver transistors > >(one to drive each of the X and Y wires in either > direction) plus some > >kind of op-amp or comparator circuit to monitor the > sense wire (is there > >just one of these per frame?) and determine whether > or not a bit has > >flipped during a read pulse? Or are there all > sorts of ghosts and goblins > >lurking in core memory that I don't want to > confront? > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Wed Apr 3 14:32:18 2002 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:57 2005 Subject: IBM PS/1 Recovery/Install diskettes available Message-ID: <156.badf018.29dcc0d2@aol.com> In a message dated 4/3/2002 12:14:38 PM Central Standard Time, pat@cart-server.purdueriots.com writes: > Don't remeber the model number, but the 286-based micro-thin PS/1 my > parents bought back in '90 had 13 disks for it's 'install/backup set'. > The system was about 2in thick, 12in wide, included a Mouse, PS/1 software > crap, IBM DOS 4.0, MSWorks for Dos, 1M of RAM, a 1.4M floppy drive and 40M > IDE hard drive. the included 12" monitor also included they system's > power supply (how the thing was made so dang small). Also included a > weird internal 2400baud modem with a non-standard interface. > > The system got tossed (not sure I can say I'm sad about it either) when my > parents move to a condo a couple years ago. > > yes, that's the 2011 model with DOS in ROM. pretty neat little machine. You could even get one with 512k, no HDD and mono screen. Found the addon second story 5.25 addition for $5 in the box a few weeks ago. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020403/91770c4b/attachment.html From dquebbeman at acm.org Wed Apr 3 14:32:39 2002 From: dquebbeman at acm.org (Douglas H. Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:57 2005 Subject: "When programming is outlawed, only outlaws will program" Message-ID: <001801c1db4e$b37fe540$e401a8c0@tegjeff.com> > On Wed, 3 Apr 2002, Doc wrote: > > > You may as well put Fred in jail for Xenocopy, in fact ;) > > They probably will, very soon. :( > > Did John Draper write "Easy Writer" WHILE he was in jail? Hmmm... He stayed with my family during a 3-day stop in September 1978... I gave him a 23-channel CB radio to ease the trip out, and he gave me a copy of a Nektar album (it wasn't "Remember the Future"). White and olive drab VW Microbus. >From what I've pieced together, EasyWriter must have gotten started when he got back to the Left Coast. He *might* have started formulating the ideas while in Harrisburg (Harrisville?) State Prison. We corresponded for a while before he went in; I was an early user on WRBBS (Ward and Randy's BBS), and if it wasn't that BBS, it might have been The Well or one of the other Kalifornia BBSs... I contacted Adam Osborne, and asked if he could use his clout to help John out. His reply was that while he didn't necessarily accept the Government's version of what happened, that John was indeed in deep doodoo and anyone that tried to help would get sh*t on their shoes. Now John's doing fine, tho work comes to him slowly, and poor Adam Osborne is slowly dying in a village in India, from Parkinson's Disease. BTW, I'm told that one of Adam's expressed wishes is that he be left to go in peace... Let's all thank him for his efforts and achievements, and wish him a Happy Journey into the hereafter. And please don't take that the wrong way. He was right- my brief association with John led to my departure from my position at the University where I'd hoped to get on full-time... but I bear absolutely no grudge for that. The system just plain sucks. -dq -Douglas Hurst Quebbeman (DougQ at ixsnayamspayIgLou.com) [Call me "Doug"] Surgically excise the pig-latin from my e-mail address in order to reply "The large print giveth, and the small print taketh away." -Tom Waits From vance at ikickass.org Wed Apr 3 14:37:05 2002 From: vance at ikickass.org (Sridhar the POWERful) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:57 2005 Subject: Strange idea in VAX In-Reply-To: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC47066540@exc-reo1.yagosys.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 3 Apr 2002, Carlini, Antonio wrote: > >One thing that might be interested is to see if I can find a PCI hose for > >it, find source code for the PCI hose driver for a free OS (I'm pretty > >sure that there is one out there somewhere), and try to write a VMS driver > >for the PCI hose on OpenVMS/VAX? > > Can you get a PCI hose for it? I forget. > If you can then you could also get one of > those 3rd party PCI<->Q-bus boards and > create a loop :-) Now *that's* twisted. I like it. 8-) > >Then I could try to get a PCI > >framebuffer working, but then how would I go about attaching a keyboard > >and mouse? > > PCI->USB? But does OpenVMS/vax support USB? Peace... Sridhar From donm at cts.com Wed Apr 3 14:45:42 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:57 2005 Subject: Language Converter (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 3 Apr 2002, Doc wrote: > See comments below: > > On Wed, 3 Apr 2002, John Lawson wrote: > > > Forwarded for any possible help; REPLY TO MR. DOWNMAN, not to me. I'm > > just the nosey forwarder.... > > > > > How does one convert old Smith Corona Word Processor Diskettes for use on > > the hard drive of my Windows XP System. They contain years of hard work > > and valuable imformation ??? The diskettes are low density 740KB size. > > Can somebody help.?? Jim VK4FAD > > I'm terribly tempted to send Mr. Downman email explaining Oerstedts, > coercivity, and track widths.... > > Doc You might also want to include the information that some/all? of the SC Word Processors had a rather kinky disk system that recorded in a spiral like a phono record and cannot be read by any `normal' floppy disk system. - don From bill at timeguy.com Wed Apr 3 14:47:24 2002 From: bill at timeguy.com (Bill Richman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:57 2005 Subject: Core Memory Interfacing? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20020403150835.00849570@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <20020403143831.T56922-100000@outpost.timeguy.com> Response from a seller I asked about the core planes he's selling (and I'm bidding on) on eBay. Can I beat him like a baby seal? Please...? Just for a little while...? "I disposed of the driver boards," indeed. I'd be "afraid" too. The driver boards probably weren't "pretty" enough to fetch a good price from the "collectors" on eBay. If you're gonna salvage _some_ of it, get the _whole_thing_! "I'm sorry, Mr. Smith - I'm afraid I 'disposed of' the bank routing number on the check I sent you for the core planes." (Don't get me wrong here - I'm not saying he's the least bit dishonest, but I hate it when someone is cavalier about having gotten rid of something I wanted!) <*cry> > They are perfect. No damaged cores or wires. I'm afraid I disposed of > the driver boards. From caprio at dcms.com Wed Apr 3 14:23:42 2002 From: caprio at dcms.com (Don Caprio) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:58 2005 Subject: CP/M and Imsai Message-ID: <200204032023.g33KNg4E029556@dcms.com> Thanks to all for you comments on the S-100 and Imsai. The reason I got intersted in this was back in the late 70's I worked for an OEM and we rolled out data Entry/Retrieval system on Datapoint, Then moved to the Imsai, and then the Intel SBC 8086 running RMX/86. This was my first programming job. Everything was written in assembler and progressed to PL/I then finally forth. I loved this job. Back then programmers appreciated tight code and knew how to save a few bytes of code. It was amazing what we did with the Imsai. I think we had 30+ serial connections to data entry terminals with keypunch operators banging away at 100 WPM! The terminals were also used for data base retrieval over a dedicated line connected to our mainframe, a Xerox Sigma 9. Our mainframe application was written in assembler as welll (MetaSymbol). I also ported a few 8080/z80 applications to 8086. When I left the company ten years later we had piles of Imsai's on pallets and didn't know what to do with them. I bet they ended up in a landfill somewhere! Wish I had just a pallet of them today! It's been twenty years since I worked on the Imsai. Most of my knowledge on these and other S-100 systems is burried in my brian somewhere problem is I can't seem to fetch it :^) At any rate I'm up for the challange and am looking forward to putting my Imsai system together. Any ex employee's of Science Dynamics (Torrance, Ca) out there? Jeff, Neil, Ralph, Dave, and Less are you there? and then From dquebbeman at acm.org Wed Apr 3 14:52:36 2002 From: dquebbeman at acm.org (Douglas H. Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:58 2005 Subject: Core Memory Interfacing? Message-ID: <002801c1db51$7ccf5140$e401a8c0@tegjeff.com> > care of it. For example, reading core is destructive, that is > it erases the contents so you have to store the contents back > into it before you do anything else (unless you don't care if > it's lost). That seems like it wou! > ld be easy enough to do in HW but I don't know if that's > what they did. The Hazeltine 2000 is a 1972-era computer terminal. It used core memory, but did not have a microprocesor, and therefore, no software. So at least the Hazeltine did it in hardware. When you'd turn it back on, it usually lost some bits, but you would always bring up the last screen that had been displayed, if someone didn't explicitly clear it. Not the kind of terminal to use in secure installtions... -dq -Douglas Hurst Quebbeman (DougQ at ixsnayamspayIgLou.com) [Call me "Doug"] Surgically excise the pig-latin from my e-mail address in order to reply "The large print giveth, and the small print taketh away." -Tom Waits From blacklord at telstra.com Wed Apr 3 14:58:54 2002 From: blacklord at telstra.com (blacklord) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:58 2005 Subject: Computers Manufactured in 1986 Message-ID: <3bc712b1.12b13bc7@bigpond.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: Christopher Smith Date: Thursday, April 4, 2002 1:20 am Subject: RE: RE: Computers Manufactured in 1986 > For a 1000 -- are you sure? :) I have a much easier time finding > software for my 520ST. As long as the software isn't AGA specific (or takes advantage of some of the graphics boards available), or will only run on one of the later OSes, then it'll run on the A1000. cheers, Lance ---------------- Powered by telstra.com From donm at cts.com Wed Apr 3 15:01:53 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:58 2005 Subject: Birthyear computers In-Reply-To: <3CAB30D6.EF49A0EE@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, 3 Apr 2002, Ben Franchuk wrote: > "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" wrote: > > > Even if they would sell me Stonehenge, I couldn't afford the shipping, and > > don't have enough storage space. > Some people have made a copy of stonehenge in the North East USA, out of > cement. But they forget to read the Firmware Manual that states the > rocks have to be re-adusted if moved. > > > -- > > Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com > > > -- > Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * > www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html There is also one overlooking the Columbia River from the bluffs on the south side that was built by Sam Hill who is fondly remembered every time someone says "What the Sam Hill...". - don From doc at mdrconsult.com Wed Apr 3 15:01:52 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:58 2005 Subject: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New" PDP-8)) In-Reply-To: <3CAB580B.7090806@internet1.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 3 Apr 2002, Chad Fernandez wrote: > Doc, > > Mag makes some quite small flashlights now. I believe they have one > that is keychain sized. That would be an aweful small gun barrel, plus > if it's on your key chain, it goes in the basket when you go through the > metal detector :-) That's what I carry. It's about 3" long, maybe 3/8" or 7/16" in diameter. They won't let me on the plane with it. Had my friend who works for United not been willing to come get it at the security gate and store it for me, they'd have confiscated it. Now I put it, and my little 2" Very Sharp Knife in my checked luggage. The truth is, I have absolutely no beef with that. I fly a lot. I now get to the airport at least 2 hours before my flight. I often have to spend an extra night out of town because of the added check-in time. I don't schedule connecting flights less than 1 hour from scheduled arrival to scheduled departure. And flying is a _much_ more pleasant experience. For the first time in my experience, the flying public don't treat airport and airline personnel like personal slaves. My aforementioned buddy has some unreal statistics. Lost baggage is down over 60%. Complaints and claims blaming the airlines for missed flights or connections are down nearly 75%. The airlines are more on-time, due to a lighter schedule. Wanna know what *really* throws security into a tizzy? Presentation transparencies, aka overhead projection foils. Evidently, they show up just like plastic explosives on the scope. I guarantee, they will NOT search your bag. Or let you open it, until they do the sniffer thing. :^P Doc From blacklord at telstra.com Wed Apr 3 15:04:23 2002 From: blacklord at telstra.com (blacklord) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:58 2005 Subject: Computers Manufactured in 1986^H^H56 Message-ID: <34782be3.2be33478@bigpond.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: Ben Franchuk Date: Thursday, April 4, 2002 5:04 am Subject: Re: Computers Manufactured in 1986^H^H56 > Stan Barr wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > jpero@sympatico.ca said: > > > > > > I suppose to commemorate my birth, I'll need to get an S- > 100 box Ok, so what would I need for 1965 ? cheers, Lance ---------------- Powered by telstra.com From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Wed Apr 3 15:07:28 2002 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Carlini, Antonio) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:58 2005 Subject: Strange idea in VAX Message-ID: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC4706654C@exc-reo1.yagosys.com> >But does OpenVMS/vax support USB? No but since you're doing a PCI driver, a USB driver should be a breeze. Having a Qbus framebuffer and a USB keyboard and mouse would be fun :-) Now that I look I don't see any PCI widgets for the VAX 7000/10000 or the DEC 7000/10000. So I think PCI and TRUBOchannel are pipe-dreams. Pity, they would have been the easiest ways to get a framebuffer. Now if you get a TurboLaser (AlphaServer 8200/8400) they *do* have PCI expansion available, so you could do PCI graphics there. Possibly even multiple graphics heads :-) Antonio From spc at conman.org Wed Apr 3 15:10:59 2002 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:58 2005 Subject: some what OT: FW: Adios, Internet Radio In-Reply-To: from "Doc" at Apr 03, 2002 08:23:55 AM Message-ID: <200204032111.QAA05422@conman.org> It was thus said that the Great Doc once stated: > > I really, really, really wanted this to be a joke. It's really,really > not. It's worse than it appears. Jamie Zawinski (of Netscape fame) has this about it: http://www.dnalounge.com/backstage/webcasting.html -spc (Bad. Very bad) From lgwalker at mts.net Wed Apr 3 15:17:32 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:58 2005 Subject: some what OT: FW: Adios, Internet Radio In-Reply-To: <02Apr3.100803est.119047@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> References: Message-ID: <3CAB1D0C.7055.5EE1AF8@localhost> I'm sure this will impact on non-USA net-stations as well since much the content is US produced music. A real downer for me since i-net radio is my only relief from the banalities of AM, and the only FM station receivable in most parts of northern Canada is CBC-FM. DAMN. Bye,bye to my jazz and classical stations. I guess I'll have to settle for Radio Cuba on SW. :^) The US corporate beast is getting VERY greedy. They may bite off more than they can chew, if they wake up enough of the US populace. Lawrence > > I really, really, really wanted this to be a joke. It's really,really > >not. > > This kind of thing explains why I no longer buy CD's or > movies, when in the past I spent quite a bit of money on tapes and > albums. Netflix.com is my source for movies, and at $20/month it > offers much better value than going to the theatre. Piracy isn't > hurting the recording industry, it's their greed coupled to the fact > that they no longer offer good value. I will not support an industry > that tries to put these strangleholds on what I can do. > > Jeff > -- > Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File > http://www.cchaven.com > http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From lgwalker at mts.net Wed Apr 3 15:17:32 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:58 2005 Subject: IBM PS/1 Recovery/Install diskettes available In-Reply-To: References: <27.25403371.29dc89af@aol.com> Message-ID: <3CAB1D0C.26495.5EE1B3E@localhost> That was a 2011 or 2021. If there is any #s on the disks that Rich has, like 20xx or 21xx. That would be the model number. Lawrence > Don't remeber the model number, but the 286-based micro-thin PS/1 my > parents bought back in '90 had 13 disks for it's 'install/backup set'. > The system was about 2in thick, 12in wide, included a Mouse, PS/1 software > crap, IBM DOS 4.0, MSWorks for Dos, 1M of RAM, a 1.4M floppy drive and 40M > IDE hard drive. the included 12" monitor also included they system's > power supply (how the thing was made so dang small). Also included a > weird internal 2400baud modem with a non-standard interface. > > The system got tossed (not sure I can say I'm sad about it either) when my > parents move to a condo a couple years ago. > > -- Pat > > On Wed, 3 Apr 2002 SUPRDAVE@aol.com wrote: > > > In a message dated 4/3/2002 8:33:45 AM Central Standard Time, > > r_beaudry@hotmail.com writes: > > > > > > > >><< A bit too new to be on topic, but... I was scrounging through some > > > >> >>stuff > > > >>yesterday, and unearthed a set of original diskettes for an IBM PS/1. > > > >> >> > > > > > > > >do you know what model PS/1? > > > > > > Well.... I only have the disks, and not a PS/1. They were part of another > > > lot of stuff that I got... > > > > > > Is there a way to tell from a file on the disk, or some number on the > > > outside of the disk? > > > > > > > > > > Unfortunately, I've been away from IBM for several years now. The early > > models used 9 or so, and the later more standard models used ~14 or more. If > > not claimed, I will take them. > > > lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From marvin at rain.org Wed Apr 3 15:41:49 2002 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:58 2005 Subject: some what OT: FW: Adios, Internet Radio References: <200204032111.QAA05422@conman.org> Message-ID: <3CAB771D.919A35A9@rain.org> Every problem also brings opportunity ... for those that are willing. >From my experience, there is a *hugh* population of "haven't made it yet" musicians/composers/etc. It seems like it would take very little effort (relatively anyway) to organize these people so they could become more widely known ... in exchange for doing away with the abuse involved with "legitimate" record/distribution fees. Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner wrote: > > It was thus said that the Great Doc once stated: > > > > I really, really, really wanted this to be a joke. It's really,really > > not. > > It's worse than it appears. Jamie Zawinski (of Netscape fame) has this > about it: > > http://www.dnalounge.com/backstage/webcasting.html > > -spc (Bad. Very bad) From vance at ikickass.org Wed Apr 3 15:40:30 2002 From: vance at ikickass.org (Sridhar the POWERful) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:58 2005 Subject: Strange idea in VAX In-Reply-To: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC4706654C@exc-reo1.yagosys.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 3 Apr 2002, Carlini, Antonio wrote: > >But does OpenVMS/vax support USB? > > No but since you're doing a PCI driver, > a USB driver should be a breeze. Cool. > Having a Qbus framebuffer and a USB > keyboard and mouse would be fun :-) If I had the Qbus framebuffer, I wouldn't need the USB keyboard and mouse, I don't think. It would only be necessary with the PCI framebuffer. > Now that I look I don't see any PCI widgets > for the VAX 7000/10000 or the DEC 7000/10000. > So I think PCI and TRUBOchannel are pipe-dreams. > > Pity, they would have been the easiest ways to > get a framebuffer. > > Now if you get a TurboLaser (AlphaServer 8200/8400) > they *do* have PCI expansion available, so you could > do PCI graphics there. Possibly even multiple > graphics heads :-) I could never find anything that would tell me what the difference between Laserbus and Turbolaser was. I was hoping that maybe the hose device might be compatible or something. It's a stretch, though. I wish AlphaServer 8400's weren't so damn expensive. Peace... Sridhar From csmith at amdocs.com Wed Apr 3 15:49:02 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:58 2005 Subject: some what OT: FW: Adios, Internet Radio Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E01784371@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Lawrence Walker [mailto:lgwalker@mts.net] > classical stations. I guess I'll have to settle for Radio > Cuba on SW. :^) At least that way you're acting in support of a more honest organization than RIAA (the Cuban government)! > The US corporate beast is getting VERY greedy. They may bite > off more > than they can chew, if they wake up enough of the US populace. They may, but it's just about as likely as them deciding that McDonalds isn't a good place to go out for food. Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Wed Apr 3 15:56:57 2002 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (Allison) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:58 2005 Subject: Core Memory Interfacing? Message-ID: <000e01c1db5a$7ac5af80$3a7b7b7b@ajp> From: Joe drivers and sense amps on it so that might make things easier. However there are some things that you have to do with core and I don't know if they handled in hardware or if the OS had to take care of it. For example, reading core is destructive, that is it erases the contents so you have to store the contents back into it before you do anything else (unless you don't care if it's lost). That seems like it wou! > ld be easy enough to do in HW but I don't know if that's what they did. Not an OS task. It's usually handled in hardware either in the CPU microcode or as a synchronous timing with the cpu such that if the cpu is going to alter the data at the location it's already started the cycle. Some will stop the memory cycle after the read to see if it should write the old data back or alter it, this is usually signaled by the cpu before it outputs a new address. That would be ideal as you have something you may have data on, most of the circuits and even a clue on the timing. I'd love to play with something like that rather than a scratch build. Allison > > Joe > >At 11:41 AM 4/3/02 -0600, you wrote: >>Right off, let me say that I know next to nothing about the realities of >>using core memory. I only know that it looks like pretty cool stuff to >>play with. Would I be completely off my tree to try to build a core >>memory interface from scratch, assuming I had a pre-strung core frame with >>all the cores and wires intact? When I say "interface", I mean basically >>something that will let me talk to the core from a PC or from my >>recently-completed Mark-8 using TTL or CMOS levels. If I have a 64x64 >>frame, would I just need something on the order of 256 driver transistors >>(one to drive each of the X and Y wires in either direction) plus some >>kind of op-amp or comparator circuit to monitor the sense wire (is there >>just one of these per frame?) and determine whether or not a bit has >>flipped during a read pulse? Or are there all sorts of ghosts and goblins >>lurking in core memory that I don't want to confront? >> >> >> >> > From dittman at dittman.net Wed Apr 3 15:56:35 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:58 2005 Subject: Strange idea in VAX In-Reply-To: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC4706654C@exc-reo1.yagosys.com> from "Carlini, Antonio" at Apr 03, 2002 01:07:28 PM Message-ID: <200204032156.g33LuaM18041@narnia.int.dittman.net> > >But does OpenVMS/vax support USB? > > No but since you're doing a PCI driver, > a USB driver should be a breeze. > > Having a Qbus framebuffer and a USB > keyboard and mouse would be fun :-) > > Now that I look I don't see any PCI widgets > for the VAX 7000/10000 or the DEC 7000/10000. > So I think PCI and TRUBOchannel are pipe-dreams. > > Pity, they would have been the easiest ways to > get a framebuffer. > > Now if you get a TurboLaser (AlphaServer 8200/8400) > they *do* have PCI expansion available, so you could > do PCI graphics there. Possibly even multiple > graphics heads :-) Yes, and you wouldn't need to write the drivers for the PCI adapter, either. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From dittman at dittman.net Wed Apr 3 15:57:52 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:58 2005 Subject: Strange idea in VAX In-Reply-To: from "Sridhar the POWERful" at Apr 03, 2002 03:37:05 PM Message-ID: <200204032157.g33Lvqh18056@narnia.int.dittman.net> > But does OpenVMS/vax support USB? Absolutely not. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Wed Apr 3 16:01:40 2002 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (Allison) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:58 2005 Subject: Core Memory Interfacing? Message-ID: <001501c1db5b$239a34a0$3a7b7b7b@ajp> From: Loboyko Steve To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org >been mentioned before. Without those, its a heck of a >lot of discretes, and there's no way around it. Too There are pther parts out there. >a wall. I also suspect that because of all of the >unknowns involved regarding the magnetic properties of >the core that you use, the way to go about it is to If you read the article ALL of those parameters are can be tested and defined, before building the whole core plane. >of core is that there are thermistors involved also, >and that core had a very narrow range of temperature >operation. There were even programs designed >specifically to cause "hot spots" in the core in order >to test it (you'd have to know the physical layout of >the core to pull this trick off). Actually when doing that you'd also vary the slice level or the power supply levels to see where the edges are. FYI: I checks my notes and a 64x64 array needs 65 drivers and something like 192 diodes to drive the select lines. Allison From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Wed Apr 3 16:05:14 2002 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (Allison) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:58 2005 Subject: Core Memory Interfacing? Message-ID: <002601c1db5b$a2c968e0$3a7b7b7b@ajp> From: Douglas H. Quebbeman >The Hazeltine 2000 is a 1972-era computer terminal. It used core >memory, but did not have a microprocesor, and therefore, no >software. > >So at least the Hazeltine did it in hardware. As did the VT52 and a slew of others. >When you'd turn it back on, it usually lost some bits, but you >would always bring up the last screen that had been displayed, >if someone didn't explicitly clear it. Not the kind of terminal >to use in secure installtions... Later ones had a power on circuit to effectively punch the clear button. Allison From mcguire at neurotica.com Wed Apr 3 16:24:56 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:58 2005 Subject: Computers Manufactured in 1986 In-Reply-To: RE: Computers Manufactured in 1986 (Christopher Smith) References: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E0178434E@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> Message-ID: <15531.33080.915243.241100@phaduka.neurotica.com> On April 2, Christopher Smith wrote: > > What wonderful machines these are. The first ones, though, shipped > > with 10MB drives, not 40MB, and it was SYSVR2, not 3. > > I don't doubt the 10M disk, but I've never seen anything below 3.0 for it. > > I have 3.5 on mine, with a 3.0 dev kit. That's not the UNIX SysV "release" number, that's the UnixPC 7300 OS version number...like Solaris2.x is SysVR4, but there's version 2.7, 2.8, 2.9, etc. The UnixPC 7300/3B1 OS base is definitely SysVR2. -Dave -- Dave McGuire "I thought it would go quickly, St. Petersburg, FL that rubberized bottom..." -Sridhar From spc at conman.org Wed Apr 3 16:24:55 2002 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:58 2005 Subject: some what OT: FW: Adios, Internet Radio In-Reply-To: <3CAB771D.919A35A9@rain.org> from "Marvin Johnston" at Apr 03, 2002 01:41:49 PM Message-ID: <200204032224.RAA05773@conman.org> It was thus said that the Great Marvin Johnston once stated: > > Every problem also brings opportunity ... for those that are willing. > >From my experience, there is a *hugh* population of "haven't made it > yet" musicians/composers/etc. It seems like it would take very little > effort (relatively anyway) to organize these people so they could become > more widely known ... in exchange for doing away with the abuse involved > with "legitimate" record/distribution fees. The problem, from what I understand of it, is that the ASCAP and BMI will just sue you anyway, assuming that you *must* be playing music that is under their control. Sure, you can fight it, but you better have deep pockets. Or even if you do prove that you are playing music not under their control, you can bet that once a musician you are playing is signed, the ASCAP, BMI, RIAA, etc. will be there, waiting for you to slip up and play music that is now under *their* control and bam! Sue you out of existence. -spc (You can't impinge on their Mandate From Heaven to screw both musicians *and* consumers ... ) From dquebbeman at acm.org Wed Apr 3 16:42:28 2002 From: dquebbeman at acm.org (Douglas H. Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:58 2005 Subject: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New" PDP-8)) Message-ID: <000701c1db60$d5974ad0$e401a8c0@tegjeff.com> > -> I assume everyone knows what casting flash is... these screws > -> have casting flash... > > Look closely. It is not casting flash. Screws aren't cast. > As mentioned in an earlier post, the heads and threads are > made by pressing (deformation) of a rod. > > When the form dies wear, are improperly secured, or are misaligned, > the result is "extruded squish", not "casting flash". I stand corrected. -dq -Douglas Hurst Quebbeman (DougQ at ixnayamspayIgLou.com) [Call me "Doug"] Surgically excise the pig-latin from my e-mail address in order to reply "The large print giveth, and the small print taketh away." -Tom Waits From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Wed Apr 3 16:43:51 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:58 2005 Subject: Core Memory Interfacing? References: <3.0.6.32.20020403150835.00849570@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3CAB85A7.6FD191CD@jetnet.ab.ca> Joe wrote: > > Bill, > > You're a man after my own heart! I've been thinking about this for some time. I once had some NICE small core planes (16k I think) out of a HP communications analyzer and I think they would have been just about perfect for this. I had too many other projects at the time so I sold them but I know where there are some more analyzers so I may grab them and swipe the core from them. I found the service manual for the analyzer so I had the pin out for the entire machine including the core. (I still have it). IIRC the core module was about 5 inches square and had all the drivers and sense amps on it so that might make things easier. However there are some things that you have to do with core and I don't know if they handled in hardware or if the OS had to take care of it. For example, reading core is destructive, that is it erases the contents so you have to store the contents back into it before you do anything else (unless you don't care if it's lost). That seems like it wou! ! > ld be easy enough to do in HW but I don't know if that's what they did. Writing back to memory was a hardware function. Clear memory and Incriment/Decriment memory were often implimented as memory write back features. -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From vance at ikickass.org Wed Apr 3 16:46:52 2002 From: vance at ikickass.org (Sridhar the POWERful) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:58 2005 Subject: Anyone know where I can find a FAQ... Message-ID: ...for MPE/iX? Peace... Sridhar From dquebbeman at acm.org Wed Apr 3 16:55:00 2002 From: dquebbeman at acm.org (Douglas H. Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:58 2005 Subject: OT: Dell Quality Message-ID: <000f01c1db62$95d1b0f0$e401a8c0@tegjeff.com> > PS: Oh, Your dept who bought up that 25 dells made serious > *mistake*. Only way dept can depend on them running w/ replacement > parts is dell's especially their power supplies and few oddball > boards. PSUs are totally non-standard pinouts. Oh, your dept also > didn't choose AMD and let dell know everybody else wanted > quality but flexible choices in different brands of CPUs instead > of Intel-only. Oh, I pitched MicronPC, but no one here has ever heard of them... But anyway, it's irrelevant. Every machine will be obsolete in three years, and every machine has a three-year next-day- response service contract. When the three years is up, we buy new ones and give the old ones to employees. Oh, and the only thing we've ever had go bad in Dells: * company president drops laptop and kills it * construction administrator packs one in overhead storage on plane and crushes screen * Western Digital Hard Drive failed in a new Dimension * Sony tape library jammed and replaced with another Sony * Seagate SCSI drive in PowerEdge Server RAID 5 array *will* fail * user killed mouse and lied, Dell replaced anyway * sysadmin ordered white keyboard for black computer, asked for swap, Dell sent back keyboard free And while Micron's would be nice, I'll do *anything* to avoid buying Hewcom Pacqward... -dq -Douglas Hurst Quebbeman (DougQ at ixnayamspayIgLou.com) [Call me "Doug"] Surgically excise the pig-latin from my e-mail address in order to reply "The large print giveth, and the small print taketh away." -Tom Waits From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Wed Apr 3 16:57:34 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:58 2005 Subject: Computers Manufactured in 1986^H^H56 References: <34782be3.2be33478@bigpond.com> Message-ID: <3CAB88DE.E87B3947@jetnet.ab.ca> blacklord wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Ben Franchuk > Date: Thursday, April 4, 2002 5:04 am > Subject: Re: Computers Manufactured in 1986^H^H56 > > > Stan Barr wrote: > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > jpero@sympatico.ca said: > > > > > > > I suppose to commemorate my birth, I'll need to get an S- > > 100 box > > Ok, so what would I need for 1965 ? A nice shiny new PDP/8 ! ($18,000,000 in old money). The PDP/5 came out in 1963. -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Wed Apr 3 17:18:32 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:58 2005 Subject: Computers Manufactured in 1986^H^H56 References: <34782be3.2be33478@bigpond.com> <3CAB88DE.E87B3947@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <3CAB8DC8.FD8F5A37@jetnet.ab.ca> Ben Franchuk wrote: > > Ok, so what would I need for 1965 ? > A nice shiny new PDP/8 ! ($18,000,000 in old money). > The PDP/5 came out in 1963. err $18,000.00 \> -- > Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * > www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From mranalog at attbi.com Wed Apr 3 17:39:33 2002 From: mranalog at attbi.com (Doug Coward) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:58 2005 Subject: DSD-440 manual needed Message-ID: <3CAB92B5.218C288B@attbi.com> I really need a copy of the manual for a Data Systems Design DSD-440. If I knew what I was doing I would just ask for the switch and jumper settings, but that's not the case. I would like to get a copy of the entire manual. If someone has the manual scanned already, I can take 2MB email attachments. --Doug ========================================= Doug Coward @ home in Poulsbo, WA Analog Computer Online Museum and History Center http://dcoward.best.vwh.net/analog Analogrechner, calculateur analogique, calcolatore analogico, analoogrekenaar, komputer analogowy, analog bilgisayar, kampiutere ghiyasi, analoge computer. ========================================= From vaxman at earthlink.net Wed Apr 3 17:47:38 2002 From: vaxman at earthlink.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:58 2005 Subject: Ultrix root password In-Reply-To: <20020403085439.E319578@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: On Wed, 3 Apr 2002, Jochen Kunz wrote: > On 2002.04.03 06:41 Clint Wolff (VAX collector) wrote: > > > True, NetBSD would talk to it, but it would require NetBSD > > running on a uVAX II so the drive could be plugged in. > You have to run it only once to hack the Ultrix installation. Netbooted, > so you don't need to remove any drives. > Excellent point... I hadn't considered netbooting... > > I certainly don't have the patience to run NetBSD on a uVAX II, > > a wouldn't recommend anyone else do the same. > I installed 4.3BSD-Tahoe UNIX on my MicroVAX III. Currently I am trying > to build 4.3BSD-Reno from that base for my MicroVAX 3900. (Exhibition > project for the VCFE.) This is real fun. These machines feel quite zippy > with that old software. But this old stuff is real crude in some points. > NetBSD gives you a slower, but very smooth ride on this hardware. > My goal is also to get Tahoe running on my uVAXen, more the the learning experience than anything else... > > Unfortunately, NetBSD (and FreeBSD) is rapidly becoming > > unusable on old hardware... > If you want things like ssh ... you have to pay the price. Heh... I wouldn't expose any of my antiques to the internet... I've got a PC running FreeBSD to take the brunt of the assault, and it can be restored from tape in a matter of hours... The VAXen live on their own subnet which is air-gapped from the internet unless I really really want to ftp a file direct, in which case I power up the hub betwixt them :) > -- > > > > tschüß, > Jochen > > Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Apr 3 16:02:28 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:58 2005 Subject: Computers Manufactured in 1986^H^H56 In-Reply-To: <20020403040025.GHWJ17738.tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> from "jpero@sympatico.ca" at Apr 2, 2 11:02:08 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 243 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020403/3f441dd3/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Apr 3 16:06:55 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:58 2005 Subject: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New" PDP-8)) In-Reply-To: from "Doc" at Apr 2, 2 09:11:19 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 818 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020403/eede2f61/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Apr 3 16:15:13 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:58 2005 Subject: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New" PDP-8)) In-Reply-To: <20020402.204434.-96547.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> from "jeff.kaneko@juno.com" at Apr 2, 2 08:44:33 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1105 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020403/1ae4975a/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Apr 3 16:17:10 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:58 2005 Subject: The Future End of Classic Computing In-Reply-To: <000c01c1dad5$514a5640$4d4d2c0a@atx> from "Andy Holt" at Apr 3, 2 07:03:46 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 431 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020403/987daadc/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Apr 3 16:22:26 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:58 2005 Subject: The Future End of Classic Computing In-Reply-To: <007901c1dadd$b25c3720$7685d642@Smith.earthlink.net> from "Wayne M. Smith" at Apr 2, 2 11:03:45 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1707 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020403/e2eb7e26/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Apr 3 16:24:38 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:58 2005 Subject: 6809 single board computer (was: "New" PDP-8) In-Reply-To: from "Tothwolf" at Apr 3, 2 01:36:43 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 791 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020403/540a690a/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Apr 3 17:26:15 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:58 2005 Subject: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New" PDP-8)) In-Reply-To: <002701c1db21$7a30b260$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Apr 3, 2 08:08:56 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 711 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020404/18d12459/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Apr 3 17:31:17 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:58 2005 Subject: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New" PDP-8)) In-Reply-To: <000d01c1db28$1967eaa0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Apr 3, 2 08:56:21 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 747 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020404/c3ee0d66/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Apr 3 17:53:06 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:58 2005 Subject: Core Memory Interfacing? In-Reply-To: <002601c1db5b$a2c968e0$3a7b7b7b@ajp> from "Allison" at Apr 3, 2 05:05:14 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 633 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020404/4afe270a/attachment.ksh From foo at siconic.com Wed Apr 3 09:54:45 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:58 2005 Subject: "When programming is outlawed, only outlaws will program" In-Reply-To: <001801c1db4e$b37fe540$e401a8c0@tegjeff.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 3 Apr 2002, Douglas H. Quebbeman wrote: > Now John's doing fine, tho work comes to him slowly, Only because most people run the other way upon meeting him ;) > and poor Adam Osborne is slowly dying in a village in > India, from Parkinson's Disease. BTW, I'm told that one > of Adam's expressed wishes is that he be left to go in > peace... Let's all thank him for his efforts and achievements, > and wish him a Happy Journey into the hereafter. Wow, that sucks. I hadn't heard this. Any references? Why a village in India? > And please don't take that the wrong way. He was right- > my brief association with John led to my departure from > my position at the University where I'd hoped to get on > full-time... but I bear absolutely no grudge for that. The > system just plain sucks. Yawp. F THE MAN! Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Wed Apr 3 09:57:09 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:58 2005 Subject: Core Memory Interfacing? In-Reply-To: <20020403143831.T56922-100000@outpost.timeguy.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 3 Apr 2002, Bill Richman wrote: > > They are perfect. No damaged cores or wires. I'm afraid I disposed of > > the driver boards. This is the same kind of guy who would capture and kill a rhinocerous just so he could saw off it's dick and grind it up to make a tea. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Wed Apr 3 10:00:13 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:58 2005 Subject: CP/M and Imsai In-Reply-To: <200204032023.g33KNg4E029556@dcms.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 3 Apr 2002, Don Caprio wrote: > Any ex employee's of Science Dynamics (Torrance, Ca) out there? Jeff, Neil, > Ralph, Dave, and Less are you there? I know of a Science Dynamics in New Jersey that does inmate telephone systems. Is this a genuine coincidence or is it possibly the same company? http://www.scidyn.com/ Science Dynamics Corporation (SciDyn) has been developing and delivering technologically advanced telecommunication solutions for years. The name SciDyn may be new to you, but weve been in business now for 25 years. Our solutions are installed in 18 countries around the world and currently process more than 250 million minutes per month. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Wed Apr 3 10:01:07 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:58 2005 Subject: Computers Manufactured in 1986^H^H56 In-Reply-To: <34782be3.2be33478@bigpond.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 4 Apr 2002, blacklord wrote: > Ok, so what would I need for 1965 ? A PDP-8 ("straight-8"). Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Apr 3 18:11:34 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:58 2005 Subject: Anyone know where I can find a FAQ... In-Reply-To: from "Sridhar the POWERful" at Apr 03, 2002 05:46:52 PM Message-ID: <200204040011.g340BYr10600@shell1.aracnet.com> > > > ...for MPE/iX? > > Peace... Sridhar > You might check http://www.openmpe.org Zane From jpero at sympatico.ca Wed Apr 3 13:19:07 2002 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:58 2005 Subject: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New" PDP-8)) In-Reply-To: <3CAB580B.7090806@internet1.net> Message-ID: <20020404001721.KCQQ10852.tomts5-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 14:29:15 -0500 > From: Chad Fernandez > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New" PDP-8)) > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Doc, > > Mag makes some quite small flashlights now. I believe they have one > that is keychain sized. That would be an aweful small gun barrel, plus > if it's on your key chain, it goes in the basket when you go through the > metal detector :-) > > I really should pick one of those up myself. Hmm, I DO need to go to > Lowes today, any way :-) > > Chad Fernandez > Michigan, USA > > Doc wrote: > > I haven't stopped carrying them at all. But I fly a lot, so the "all > > times" part is no longer accurate. They tell me that a MicroMag > > flashlight looks too much like a pistol barrel on the 'scope. They get > > very upset about it. > > > > Doc Doc and others, If you have store or like that carries Garrity brand, pick up two cell AA flashlight. Plastic body, but ends are rubberized, has rubber tog attached. Reflector is faceted and projects bright spot far away. So far I'm still on orignal bulb and replaceable with any standard bulbs anywhere. Switch is push on-push off button type not those crappy slide type. The Maglite bi-pin bulbs are big pain, they burn out quickly, hard to find and costly. Yes I had all types of flashlights including Maglite. Yes, I did know there's second bi-pin bulb held in place of red holder in Maglite's end cap hidden under that spring. Cheers, Wizard From jhellige at earthlink.net Wed Apr 3 18:18:54 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:58 2005 Subject: The Future End of Classic Computing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >To go back to the hammer for a moment, if I go out and buy a hammer and >bash somebody's head in with it, then I am guilty of murder. The company >that made the hammer, and the shop that sold it to me, are not. And >that's how it should be. Ah, but the lawyers have removed almost all signs of true personal responsibility from society. Now everyone's the victim out to make a buck or two. And yes, I realize that there are legitimate lawsuits for real negligence out there as well. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From fmc at reanimators.org Wed Apr 3 18:08:35 2002 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:58 2005 Subject: Anyone know where I can find a FAQ... In-Reply-To: Sridhar the POWERful's message of "Wed, 3 Apr 2002 17:46:52 -0500 (EST)" References: Message-ID: <200204040008.g3408ZMg000979@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Sridhar the POWERful wrote: > ...for MPE/iX? http://www.3k.com/faq/hpfaqi.html The HP3000-L mailing list (gatewayed to newsgroup comp.sys.hp.mpe) is a good place to ask HP3000-related questions. -Frank McConnell From dquebbeman at acm.org Wed Apr 3 18:25:19 2002 From: dquebbeman at acm.org (Douglas H. Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:58 2005 Subject: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New" PDP-8)) Message-ID: <001101c1db6f$3853e6c0$61eeffcc@Shadow> > > Tony, > > As hard as it may be to envision, I bet _most_ of the subscribers to > > this list do not own tap & die sets. Many probably own only one hammer, > > People here don't have soldering irons, they don't have tap and die sets. > What the heck do they use to repair computers (;-) in case you're wondering). Once upon a time, when I worked as a programmer for an hourly wage, with time-and-half for overtime, and lived rent-free, I was able to acquire a reasonable set of tools, but most of them were for the other hobby, working on my Audi's. But I do have a logic probe, a RatShack-labeled Ungar iron, heating elements up to 43 watts (glows red!), and lots of TTL parts, etc. No scope, no analyzer, nothing esoteric. But a breadboard, a manual wirewrap tool, a few spools of wirewrap, protoboards, some material for making cheap PCB boards, cheap dykes of various sizes. I used to have heat sinks, IC pullers, two rechargeable Wahl irons (well, I still have one). But now I mostly have a salary that grows 1% behind the rate of inflation and a mortgage that consumes most of the cash, with food coming in second. So, debugging hardware ofen involves totems, incense, etc. Or lots and lots of "remove and replace"... ;) From vance at ikickass.org Wed Apr 3 18:22:59 2002 From: vance at ikickass.org (Sridhar the POWERful) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:58 2005 Subject: Anyone know where I can find a FAQ... In-Reply-To: <200204040011.g340BYr10600@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 3 Apr 2002, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > ...for MPE/iX? > > You might check http://www.openmpe.org Thanks a lot. Peace... Sridhar From dquebbeman at acm.org Wed Apr 3 18:33:45 2002 From: dquebbeman at acm.org (Douglas H. Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:58 2005 Subject: Core Memory Interfacing? Message-ID: <001701c1db70$66133740$61eeffcc@Shadow> > > From: Douglas H. Quebbeman > > > > >The Hazeltine 2000 is a 1972-era computer terminal. It used core > > >memory, but did not have a microprocesor, and therefore, no > > >software. > > > > > >So at least the Hazeltine did it in hardware. > > > > As did the VT52 and a slew of others. > > Except that every VT52 I've ever worked on used > semiconductor memory, not core. > > Anyway. the fact that there's no microprocessor does not mean that > there's no software. There are plenty of microcoded TTL designs about > (the VT52 is one of them IMHO) which have PROMs containing something that > is reasonably called firmware. Yeah, there is the old 7400 series arithmetic unit... But in my experience, most pre-micro computer equipment used fusible-link ROMs for truth-tables; a transitional item, the Processor Tech SOL's keyboard, is a good example of this. -dq From dquebbeman at acm.org Wed Apr 3 18:37:09 2002 From: dquebbeman at acm.org (Douglas H. Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:58 2005 Subject: "When programming is outlawed, only outlaws will program"" Message-ID: <001d01c1db70$df97c450$61eeffcc@Shadow> > On Wed, 3 Apr 2002, Douglas H. Quebbeman wrote: > > > Now John's doing fine, tho work comes to him slowly, > > Only because most people run the other way upon meeting him ;) You just have to stand your ground, and say "no thank you". ;) > > and poor Adam Osborne is slowly dying in a village in > > India, from Parkinson's Disease. BTW, I'm told that one > > of Adam's expressed wishes is that he be left to go in > > peace... Let's all thank him for his efforts and achievements, > > and wish him a Happy Journey into the hereafter. > > Wow, that sucks. I hadn't heard this. Any references? Why > a village in India? IIRC, his father was English, his mother Hindi... There was mention of it over in alt.folklore.computers recently... -dq From steven_j_robertson at hotmail.com Wed Apr 3 19:00:22 2002 From: steven_j_robertson at hotmail.com (Steve Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:58 2005 Subject: Anyone know where I can find a FAQ... Message-ID: The MPE news group is quite active. A lot of helpful people participate in that group. The OS documentation is available at docs.hp.com . Hardware related info is harder to come by. Good luck, SteveRob >From: Frank McConnell >Reply-To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org >To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org >Subject: Re: Anyone know where I can find a FAQ... >Date: 03 Apr 2002 16:08:35 -0800 > >Sridhar the POWERful wrote: > > ...for MPE/iX? > >http://www.3k.com/faq/hpfaqi.html > >The HP3000-L mailing list (gatewayed to newsgroup comp.sys.hp.mpe) is >a good place to ask HP3000-related questions. > >-Frank McConnell _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com From doc at mdrconsult.com Wed Apr 3 19:14:23 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:59 2005 Subject: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New" PDP-8)) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 4 Apr 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > > I personally have used a die for threading rod only once in the ~30 years over > > I've used small metric dies quite a few times for making custom > screwposts for IEEE-488 connectors, etc. It's a pain to use a lathe to > cut short, fine-pitch, threads unless you have to. RALMAO! Tony, I'm assuming you left off the tongue-in-cheek smiley. Doc From doc at mdrconsult.com Wed Apr 3 19:22:46 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:59 2005 Subject: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New" PDP-8)) In-Reply-To: <20020404001721.KCQQ10852.tomts5-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: On Wed, 3 Apr 2002 jpero@sympatico.ca wrote: > Doc and others, > > If you have store or like that carries Garrity brand, pick up two > cell AA flashlight. Plastic body, but ends are rubberized, has > rubber tog attached. Reflector is faceted and projects bright spot > far away. So far I'm still on orignal bulb and replaceable with > any standard bulbs anywhere. Switch is push on-push off button type > not those crappy slide type. The Maglite bi-pin bulbs are big > pain, they burn out quickly, hard to find and costly. Yes I had all > types of flashlights including Maglite. Yes, but I don't think a double-AA light is gonna carry comfortably. As far as the Maglite bulbs, this Micro is on its 12th battery or so, and it has [what's left of] a Camel logo on it. I quit smoking in '93.... > Yes, I did know there's second bi-pin bulb held in place of red > holder in Maglite's end cap hidden under that spring. That, I didn't know. I might need it in a few years. Doc From jpero at sympatico.ca Wed Apr 3 15:02:06 2002 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:59 2005 Subject: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New" PDP-8)) In-Reply-To: References: <20020404001721.KCQQ10852.tomts5-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: <20020404020020.MTCT29105.tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 19:22:46 -0600 (CST) > From: Doc > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New" PDP-8)) > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > On Wed, 3 Apr 2002 jpero@sympatico.ca wrote: > > > Doc and others, > > > > If you have store or like that carries Garrity brand, pick up two > > cell AA flashlight. Plastic body, but ends are rubberized, has > > rubber tog attached. Reflector is faceted and projects bright spot > > far away. So far I'm still on orignal bulb and replaceable with > > any standard bulbs anywhere. Switch is push on-push off button type > > not those crappy slide type. The Maglite bi-pin bulbs are big > > pain, they burn out quickly, hard to find and costly. Yes I had all > > types of flashlights including Maglite. > > Yes, but I don't think a double-AA light is gonna carry comfortably. > As far as the Maglite bulbs, this Micro is on its 12th battery or so, > and it has [what's left of] a Camel logo on it. I quit smoking in > '93.... Good for u to quit smoking. I can stuff it in my front side pocket with reflector end sticking out. Doesn't feel uncomfortable. What the problem is that 2xAA version of Maglite bulbs blew easily and often. I would find myself swapping bulbs 2 times every set of batteries. This is smyptoms of overdriven bulb even Maglite says this is correct bulbs package. > > > Yes, I did know there's second bi-pin bulb held in place of red > > holder in Maglite's end cap hidden under that spring. > > That, I didn't know. I might need it in a few years. > > Doc (!!) Really!? Cheers, Wizard From edick at idcomm.com Wed Apr 3 20:09:02 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:59 2005 Subject: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New" PDP-8)) References: Message-ID: <001701c1db7d$b123e880$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> see below, plz. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2002 4:26 PM Subject: Re: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New" PDP-8)) > > > > If your screws aren't 6x32's already, the easiest and probably most practical > > thing to do is get a 6x32 roll-tap, and "fix" the application so you can get > > the "right" screws whenever you need. > > Fine in the States, but have you tried getting 6-32 screws (or any small > UNC screws) over in the UK? They are essentially unobtainable. ISO metric > (M3) are trivial to get, so are the strange 'BA' screws (strange because > of the 47.5 degree thread angle for one thing!). > Well, no, since I haven't been in the U.K since the '60's. Since I buy taps by the boxful, they're cheap. The local machine tool vendor charges me the boxful price, since I buy (or used to buy) hundreds of boxfuls per year. Screws that sell for $0.35 at the hardware store cost $1.20 for a box of 100. One time I threw up my hands while at the hardware store and went to a local supply house a couple of blocks away to buy a box of washers, a box of nuts, and a box of screws, for about $1.25 for each box that would have cost over $1 for the four of each at the hardware store. I still have some of them, BTW, but it's a comfort knowing I don't have to be gouged each time I need 'em. There's probably another screw, hence another tap that would work as well in the UK, however, and I'd suggest a roll-tap in that size. They're not limited to US in their availability, nor do they come only in "English" unit sizes. Here in the U.S, if you go to a hardware or auto parts store and attempt to buy a metric bolt, you can probably get it. If you try to find a matching nut, however, it's unlikely you'll find one at a hardware or auto parts store, since there are clearly different thread pitches available and someone decided that it's not necessary to have similarly specified nuts and bolts that fit. Those of you in the U.S. ought to try this if you haven't run into it yet. I didn't realize it was possible to get nuts and bolts with matching numbers, yet not have them fit ... only in Americal ... > > A couple of my friends couldn't understand why I grabbed a couple of > boxes of random DEC screws/nuts/etc at a clearout. Well, they couldn't > understand why I did it until they came to assemble their newly-obtained > PDP11s... > DEC isn't the only vendor that used extremely odd hardware. I've had to make quite a bit of odd-ball stuff myself. > From blacklord at telstra.com Wed Apr 3 20:14:34 2002 From: blacklord at telstra.com (blacklord) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:59 2005 Subject: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New" PDP-8)) Message-ID: <1470eeac2.eac21470e@bigpond.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Douglas H. Quebbeman" Date: Thursday, April 4, 2002 10:25 am Subject: Re: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New" PDP- 8)) > PCB boards, cheap dykes of various sizes. I used to have ^^^^^^^^^^^ This one was just *too* good to let go past :-) cheers! ---------------- Powered by telstra.com From fernande at internet1.net Wed Apr 3 20:38:08 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:59 2005 Subject: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New" PDP-8)) References: Message-ID: <3CABBC90.1030908@internet1.net> Doc wrote: > That's what I carry. It's about 3" long, maybe 3/8" or 7/16" in > diameter. They won't let me on the plane with it. Had my friend who > works for United not been willing to come get it at the security gate > and store it for me, they'd have confiscated it. Now I put it, and my > little 2" Very Sharp Knife in my checked luggage. > The truth is, I have absolutely no beef with that. Wow, that would have made me very upset. I'm all for security, but not them confiscating my property, just becasue it resembles a gun barrel. It's a working flashlight, made by the thousands, nothing special, not some James Bond, Man With a Golden Gun weapon. > I fly a lot. I > now get to the airport at least 2 hours before my flight. I often have > to spend an extra night out of town because of the added check-in time. > I don't schedule connecting flights less than 1 hour from scheduled > arrival to scheduled departure. Arriving early, is a good idea. That's the kind of thing that I believe we should expect to deal with for the sake of security. > Wanna know what *really* throws security into a tizzy? > Presentation transparencies, aka overhead projection foils. > Evidently, they show up just like plastic explosives on the scope. I > guarantee, they will NOT search your bag. Or let you open it, until > they do the sniffer thing. :^P Wow, thats wierd. 8.5" X 11, that would be alot of explosive material, I would think...... I assume the scope can't see the depth. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From fernande at internet1.net Wed Apr 3 20:42:59 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:59 2005 Subject: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New" PDP-8)) References: Message-ID: <3CABBDB3.4080007@internet1.net> Tony Duell wrote: > You'll get no disagreement from me there... If the label says 'made in > China' then I generally look for another product! What I hate is when EVERYTHING is from China!! Too many times in the US, I look at the bottom of the box, and it says "Made in China", no matter what brand. I want quality, but sometimes it seems that I have to go too high end to get it. > > The only reason people buy such products is becasue they're cheap. And > then they find that they don't work properly or are unsafe (!). I'd > rather pay a little more at the start and have no further problems. Yup, I agree. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From dquebbeman at acm.org Wed Apr 3 20:44:44 2002 From: dquebbeman at acm.org (Douglas H. Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:59 2005 Subject: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New"" Message-ID: <003401c1db82$b189e400$61eeffcc@Shadow> > > > PCB boards, cheap dykes of various sizes. I used to have > ^^^^^^^^^^^ > > This one was just *too* good to let go past :-) As you might expect, this requires a lot of social engineering... ;) From fernande at internet1.net Wed Apr 3 20:46:56 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:59 2005 Subject: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New" PDP-8)) References: Message-ID: <3CABBEA0.3030608@internet1.net> Tony Duell wrote: >>If your screws aren't 6x32's already, the easiest and probably most practical >>thing to do is get a 6x32 roll-tap, and "fix" the application so you can get >>the "right" screws whenever you need. > > > Fine in the States, but have you tried getting 6-32 screws (or any small > UNC screws) over in the UK? They are essentially unobtainable. ISO metric > (M3) are trivial to get, so are the strange 'BA' screws (strange because > of the 47.5 degree thread angle foe one thing!). What is UNC, and BA? Is BA WHitworth? I rarely find computers (pc's) that use "American" threaded screws..... probably becasue so much of the stuff is from China :-( Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From fernande at internet1.net Wed Apr 3 20:51:28 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:59 2005 Subject: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New" PDP-8)) References: <20020404001721.KCQQ10852.tomts5-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: <3CABBFB0.7020406@internet1.net> jpero@sympatico.ca wrote: > Doc and others, > The Maglite bi-pin bulbs are big > pain, they burn out quickly, hard to find and costly. Yes I had all > types of flashlights including Maglite. I don't think I have ever had one burn out, but they do seem to loose there brightness after a while. My halogen torchier lamps do to, so maybe it's a halogen thing. I've only bought them once.... found them at the sporting goods dept. in Meijers. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Apr 3 22:10:44 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:59 2005 Subject: DEC swap meet?(RE: Off Topic? PDP 11 1134/1145's) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020404041045.34933.qmail@web20104.mail.yahoo.com> --- Lord Isildur wrote: > i'd think. > as for pittsburgh, it is too far west i think. Probably too far west for you East Coasters, but I can get there in a few hours myself. I could even score a place to crash and make a weekend out of it. So... if Pittsbutgh is ever an option, I'll probably be able to show up. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ From carlos_murillo at epm.net.co Wed Apr 3 22:42:55 2002 From: carlos_murillo at epm.net.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:59 2005 Subject: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New" PDP-8)) In-Reply-To: <20020404001721.KCQQ10852.tomts5-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> References: <3CAB580B.7090806@internet1.net> Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20020403234255.00f859e8@pop1.epm.net.co> At 07:19 PM 4/3/02 +0000, you wrote: >Yes, I did know there's second bi-pin bulb held in place of red >holder in Maglite's end cap hidden under that spring. >Cheers, >Wizard Hmmm; I'm another magliter, especially the solitaire (1AAA) model. They're great for looking in dark, recessed spots in old computers :-). carlos. -------------------------------------------------------------- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org From carlos_murillo at epm.net.co Wed Apr 3 22:47:00 2002 From: carlos_murillo at epm.net.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:59 2005 Subject: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New" PDP-8)) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20020403234700.00f85318@pop1.epm.net.co> At 07:14 PM 4/3/02 -0600, you wrote: >On Thu, 4 Apr 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > >> > I personally have used a die for threading rod only once in the ~30 years over >> >> I've used small metric dies quite a few times for making custom >> screwposts for IEEE-488 connectors, etc. It's a pain to use a lathe to >> cut short, fine-pitch, threads unless you have to. > RALMAO! > Tony, I'm assuming you left off the tongue-in-cheek smiley. > > Doc Hmmm... hpib connector screwposts come in both metric and US varieties; it sucks when you have a mixture of both. carlos. -------------------------------------------------------------- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Wed Apr 3 22:48:22 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:59 2005 Subject: The Future End of Classic Computing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020404044822.80503.qmail@web20106.mail.yahoo.com> --- Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Wed, 3 Apr 2002, Christopher Smith wrote: > > > You may as well put Fred in jail for Xenocopy, in fact ;) > > DOWN WITH FRED! EVIL PURVEYOR OF ILLEGAL TOOLS OF CRIME!!! FIE! FIE! Fire up the molten iron vats! -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ From doc at mdrconsult.com Wed Apr 3 22:48:36 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:59 2005 Subject: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New" PDP-8)) In-Reply-To: <20020404020020.MTCT29105.tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: On Wed, 3 Apr 2002 jpero@sympatico.ca wrote: > > > Yes, I did know there's second bi-pin bulb held in place of red > > > holder in Maglite's end cap hidden under that spring. > > > > That, I didn't know. I might need it in a few years. > > > > Doc > > (!!) Really!? You mean I really didn't know there's a spare bulb? Really. Or if you mean have I really been running on one bulb for nearly 10 years, yes really. Doc From carlos_murillo at epm.net.co Wed Apr 3 22:50:46 2002 From: carlos_murillo at epm.net.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:59 2005 Subject: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New" PDP-8)) In-Reply-To: <3CABBFB0.7020406@internet1.net> References: <20020404001721.KCQQ10852.tomts5-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20020403235046.00f81fcc@pop1.epm.net.co> At 09:51 PM 4/3/02 -0500, you wrote: >jpero@sympatico.ca wrote: >> Doc and others, >> The Maglite bi-pin bulbs are big >> pain, they burn out quickly, hard to find and costly. Yes I had all >> types of flashlights including Maglite. >I don't think I have ever had one burn out, but they do seem to loose >there brightness after a while. My halogen torchier lamps do to, so >maybe it's a halogen thing. I've had some of those bulbs burn. You can find rayovac brand replacements at kmarts. >I've only bought them once.... found them at the sporting goods dept. in >Meijers. >Chad Fernandez >Michigan, USA -------------------------------------------------------------- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org From tom at sba.miami.edu Wed Apr 3 22:52:38 2002 From: tom at sba.miami.edu (Tom Leffingwell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:59 2005 Subject: CD-ROM on RT-11? In-Reply-To: <3C9ADFF7.85A4B9E9@compsys.to> Message-ID: On Thu, 21 Mar 2002, Jerome H. Fine wrote: > If you are going to have a CD on your real PDP-11 with a Qbus host adapter, > then if you want to be able to boot partition zero, I suggest you use the > command: > COPY/BOOT DU0:RT11XM.SYS DU0: > to the partition you are going to place on the CD. MANY other aspects also > need to be considered if it will be a bootable partition. I've been out of touch with the list for a little while, so I just got this. Anyway, what would the many aspects be? I was operating on the assumption that the image I would get or make would have already been copy/boot'ed so, it should be a bootable image, and if transferred as an exact image to the CD it should work. I did finally manage to get my RX02's copied to a VMS machine. The guy that was helping me (who had the vax/vms machine) was out of town for awhile. Anyway, we copied an image of a bootable floppy to the VMS machine, and back to a new floppy, which booted fine with no need to copy/boot it (since the imagine was already that way). We also used VMS exchange to may .dsk files. I need to read up a little more on exchange, but I was thinking if I can work with the .dsk imagines of the ftpable RT-11 5.03, I should be copy in my program and then copy that to a SCSI disk, make sure its bootable, and then make an image of it. The .dsk files seem to be little file on file systems as opposed to just making an image. Thanks, Tom From doc at mdrconsult.com Wed Apr 3 23:04:33 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:59 2005 Subject: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New" PDP-8)) In-Reply-To: <3CABBC90.1030908@internet1.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 3 Apr 2002, Chad Fernandez wrote: > > Wow, that would have made me very upset. I'm all for security, but not > them confiscating my property, just becasue it resembles a gun barrel. > It's a working flashlight, made by the thousands, nothing special, not > some James Bond, Man With a Golden Gun weapon. Well, I guess "confiscated" was the wrong term. My checked baggage was checked, my ride dropped me and left, and my only option was to leave it there or leave with it. So if Jim hadn't been on shift, I'd have probably lost my light. It _felt_ like confiscation, and I _was_ upset. > Arriving early, is a good idea. That's the kind of thing that I believe > we should expect to deal with for the sake of security. Saw a lasy in Denver in November show up at the security check-in 20 minutes before her flight boarded. She naturally got tagged for a thorough search, and started screaming at security about missing her flight and her rights. It wasn't security who very quickly shut her up, it was the looks she was getting from the other travelers. Quite gratifying. > > Wanna know what *really* throws security into a tizzy? > > Wow, thats wierd. 8.5" X 11, that would be alot of explosive material, > I would think...... I assume the scope can't see the depth. Nah, I think the scope shows depth, and I usually have a stack 3/4" or more if I have any. The experienced personnel pretty much expect that it's foils, but the rookies, and there are a lot of rookies this year, handle the bag very very gently. As I said, even the veterans don't want it opened till after they check for residues. My sister-in-law doesn't mind any of that. It's the guys wearing camo and carrying AR-15s that put her off. She won't step into an airport. Doc From pat at cart-server.purdueriots.com Wed Apr 3 23:13:47 2002 From: pat at cart-server.purdueriots.com (pat@cart-server.purdueriots.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:59 2005 Subject: IBM 3192s Message-ID: I've got a pair of them sitting here, looking for a home. They seem to power up, but don't display anything. Just looking for enough to buy me a lunch + shipping. Also have for dispersal: StorageTek 2920 9-track PERTEC interface tape drive, might need a new head, otherwise completely functional. $5 + shipping -- It's 150lbs and rackmount - about 24"Hx18"Wx12"D If no one wants it, it'll end up as scrap. UPS/FedEx/USPS won't ship this I'm sure. Mac Quadra 610, Mac IIci, Quadra 700. $10ea OBO. Apple //e. One has Disk ][ interface + 1 drive + 64k RAM expansion card, one has Duodisk interface and drive. I'm willing to give out as much of these as wanted. $5 each, what I paid for it, + shipping. Thanks for supporting your local poor college student. -- Pat From jpero at sympatico.ca Wed Apr 3 18:18:08 2002 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:59 2005 Subject: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New" PDP-8) In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.20020403234255.00f859e8@pop1.epm.net.co> References: <20020404001721.KCQQ10852.tomts5-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: <20020404051623.DQFO17617.tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> > At 07:19 PM 4/3/02 +0000, you wrote: > >Yes, I did know there's second bi-pin bulb held in place of red > >holder in Maglite's end cap hidden under that spring. > >Cheers, > >Wizard > > Hmmm; I'm another magliter, especially the solitaire (1AAA) model. > They're great for looking in dark, recessed spots in old computers :-). > > carlos. Yes had one, since it's rather small, lost it (!!) but bulb in it last long time! I also had Maglite 2xAA model, these always been bulb eaters. Since when I have my Garrity 2xAA w/ faceted reflector, I have now through 5 sets of batteries and bulb still original, before that garrity, I used to replace 1 or 2 bulbs every SET of batteries on 2xAA maglite. Youch! Cheers, Wizard From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Wed Apr 3 23:21:37 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:59 2005 Subject: The Future End of Classic Computing References: <20020404044822.80503.qmail@web20106.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3CABE2E1.B0DDE637@jetnet.ab.ca> Ethan Dicks wrote: > > DOWN WITH FRED! EVIL PURVEYOR OF ILLEGAL TOOLS OF CRIME!!! FIE! FIE! > > Fire up the molten iron vats! Hmm Tar and Feathers must have gone out of style. :) Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From fernande at internet1.net Wed Apr 3 23:31:42 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:59 2005 Subject: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New" PDP-8)) References: Message-ID: <3CABE53E.6020304@internet1.net> Doc wrote: > Well, I guess "confiscated" was the wrong term. My checked baggage > was checked, my ride dropped me and left, and my only option was to > leave it there or leave with it. So if Jim hadn't been on shift, I'd > have probably lost my light. > It _felt_ like confiscation, and I _was_ upset. I see. > Nah, I think the scope shows depth, and I usually have a stack 3/4" or > more if I have any. The experienced personnel pretty much expect that > it's foils, but the rookies, and there are a lot of rookies this year, > handle the bag very very gently. As I said, even the veterans don't > want it opened till after they check for residues. 3/4 of an inch??? Wow, that would be several presentations, I hope! > > My sister-in-law doesn't mind any of that. It's the guys wearing camo > and carrying AR-15s that put her off. She won't step into an airport. AR-15? I didn't know the military used them. Sure there not M-16's? Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From fernande at internet1.net Wed Apr 3 23:51:37 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:59 2005 Subject: DEC part aniti-static matt? Message-ID: <3CABE9E9.6020102@internet1.net> Hello Listers, Awhile back I scrapped/recycled/trashed an R400X DSSI expansion chassis. Between the steel back cover a back of the backplane, I found a plastic sheet, part number 7438980-01 rev. c01g?r0? The question marks follow guesses on smeared digits.... My question is this: Could this succesfully be used as an anti-static work surface? It doesn't seem to attract lint like I would expect, which makes me wonder. Maybe it was simply to protect the backplane from shorting? Would I be better off using a sheet of cardboard? It would be nice to have something to lay cards on while sorting/re-assembling/etc. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From doc at mdrconsult.com Wed Apr 3 23:57:28 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:59 2005 Subject: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New" PDP-8)) In-Reply-To: <3CABE53E.6020304@internet1.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 4 Apr 2002, Chad Fernandez wrote: > 3/4 of an inch??? Wow, that would be several presentations, I hope! 4 days worth.... > > AR-15? I didn't know the military used them. Sure there not M-16's? Well, they don't like it if you look too close, and the corporal at DFW didn't think it was OK at all when I asked to see. But I'm fairly sure it's the old Colt AR-15. Way, way bigger than a M16. Remember, these are National Guard, not regular Army. They don't get those little MP5s. :( Doc From edick at idcomm.com Thu Apr 4 00:17:05 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:59 2005 Subject: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New" PDP-8)) References: <3CABBEA0.3030608@internet1.net> Message-ID: <001d01c1dba0$57ff8b60$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Over the past decade I've seen the screws that hold the board in PC's go from some ridiculously fine metric to what seems to be 6x32. The screws they provide fit 6x32 nuts just fine. I'd have thought the finer thread would last longer, but that doesn't seem to be the case. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chad Fernandez" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2002 7:46 PM Subject: Re: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New" PDP-8)) > Tony Duell wrote: > >>If your screws aren't 6x32's already, the easiest and probably most practical > >>thing to do is get a 6x32 roll-tap, and "fix" the application so you can get > >>the "right" screws whenever you need. > > > I rarely find computers (pc's) that use "American" threaded screws..... > probably becasue so much of the stuff is from China :-( > > Chad Fernandez > Michigan, USA > > > > From hhacker at ev1.net Thu Apr 4 00:41:58 2002 From: hhacker at ev1.net (William R. Buckley) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:59 2005 Subject: "When programming is outlawed, only outlaws will program"" In-Reply-To: <001d01c1db70$df97c450$61eeffcc@Shadow> Message-ID: >> On Wed, 3 Apr 2002, Douglas H. Quebbeman wrote: >> >> > Now John's doing fine, tho work comes to him slowly, >> >> Only because most people run the other way upon meeting him ;) > >You just have to stand your ground, and say "no thank you". > >;) > >> > and poor Adam Osborne is slowly dying in a village in >> > India, from Parkinson's Disease. BTW, I'm told that one >> > of Adam's expressed wishes is that he be left to go in >> > peace... Let's all thank him for his efforts and achievements, >> > and wish him a Happy Journey into the hereafter. >> >> Wow, that sucks. I hadn't heard this. Any references? Why >> a village in India? > >IIRC, his father was English, his mother Hindi... > >There was mention of it over in alt.folklore.computers recently... > >-dq I once met John Draper at a Hackers Conference. He did not seem that bad a person to know. What is it about him that others on this list find undesireable? William R. Buckley From Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au Thu Apr 4 01:09:31 2002 From: Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au (Huw Davies) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:59 2005 Subject: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New" PDP-8)) In-Reply-To: <00b501c1d9f7$c83831c0$7ded9a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020404170837.02057c40@kerberos.davies.net.au> At 10:31 PM 1/04/2002 -0500, ajp166 wrote: >Good PCs can be built but, you do have to work at it. I seem to recall that DEC made some of the world's best PCs. At least one of the things that made them so good was that they had Alpha chips in them. Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@kerberos.davies.net.au | "If God had wanted soccer played in the | air, the sky would be painted green" From Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au Thu Apr 4 01:10:49 2002 From: Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au (Huw Davies) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:59 2005 Subject: Computers Manufactured in 1986 In-Reply-To: <074c01c1d9fb$8178c980$0200a8c0@tm2000> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020404171023.02057c40@kerberos.davies.net.au> At 11:04 PM 1/04/2002 -0500, Torquil MacCorkle III wrote: >What are some good old computers manufactured in 1986? MicroVAX-IIs come immediately to mind... Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@kerberos.davies.net.au | "If God had wanted soccer played in the | air, the sky would be painted green" From Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au Thu Apr 4 01:36:08 2002 From: Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au (Huw Davies) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:59 2005 Subject: Computers Manufactured in 1986 In-Reply-To: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E01784314@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.c om> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020404173425.02057c40@kerberos.davies.net.au> At 12:23 PM 2/04/2002 -0600, Christopher Smith wrote: >A VAX-11/780 (...but what would I run on it? It would have to be >RSTS/E, since VMS 1.0 hadn't been released, probably.) I thought that VMS was ready and shipped with all VAX-11/780s. We ran VMS on the VAX that was shipped to La Trobe University in either late 1979 or very early 1980. From dim memory, it was running V1.5. Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@kerberos.davies.net.au | "If God had wanted soccer played in the | air, the sky would be painted green" From mythtech at mac.com Thu Apr 4 01:56:38 2002 From: mythtech at mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:59 2005 Subject: The Future End of Classic Computing Message-ID: >To go back to the hammer for a moment, if I go out and buy a hammer and >bash somebody's head in with it, then I am guilty of murder. The company >that made the hammer, and the shop that sold it to me, are not. And >that's how it should be. Scary thing is... here in the US, it doesn't seem to work that logically. People have been sueing gun manufacturers off and on because they made the gun that was used to kill someone. I don't know if anyone has WON a suit, but I do know the suits have been filed (and win or loose, you are costing the gun maker needless legal troubles). Sueing people has become so much the norm here... that the government has had to step in and offer insurance backing for the companies cleaning up the world trade center... because the companies know ALREADY that there will be lawsuits when they are done, and without insurance, they know they will be sued into bankruptcy. AND, since it is such a known fact that they will be sued... no insurance company was willing to insure them, which meant they weren't willing to do the work... so the government had to step in and offer backing. F-ing scary! Remember, this is the country that awarded 3 million dollars to a lady because she put her hot coffee in her lap, and then spilled it... and was able to sue McDonalds because the coffee was too hot and it burned her (yes, there is more to that story, but the fact that she was even able to get to trial is just f-ed up... where is the personal responsibility in this country?!?) -chris From clillie1 at socal.rr.com Thu Apr 4 02:26:11 2002 From: clillie1 at socal.rr.com (Chris Lillie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:59 2005 Subject: ibm thinkpad parts Message-ID: <011001c1dbb2$ed287dc0$1c4aa518@socal.rr.com> IN STOCK DEALS!! 02K6900 IBM TP 1400 ac adapter 350 20.00 new 10L1259 IBM TP 770Z system board 50 150.00 new 12J1944 IBM TP 365x keyboard 403 10.00 new 12J2005 IBM TP 770 keyboard assembly/unit 500 15.00 new 30L2533 IBM TP 770x system board 59 150.00 new 30L2736 IBM TP 570 system board 140 145.00 new 08K3315 IBM TP A20m system board Celeron 200 280.00 ref 13P3156 IBM TP A20m sys board PIII 750 150 355.00 new 10L1353 IBM TP SYS BD TP600X 2645 3 350.00 NEW 02k6639 IBM TP 570 BATTERY LITH/ION 30 35.00 NEW PA2450U Toshiba AC ADAPTER TECRA 530 550 8000 P7000 100 29.00NEW 29H9395 KEYBOARD IBM TP 760C/CD /ED 760EL/ L/LD 300 10.00NEW 29H9226 11.1 TFT LCD IBM TP 760C/CD /ED 760EL/ L/LD 100 26.00NEW 45H5735 12.1 TFT LCD IBM TP 760C/CD /ED 760EL/ L/LD 100 28.00NEW 19K5686 IBM IEEE 1394 PCMCIA CARD BUS 200 28.00NEW DDYS-T36950 IBM 36.7 GB 10K RPM P/N 07N3235 100 225.00NEW SOLID TECHNOLOGY 1599 Superior Ave. A2 Costa Mesa, CA 92627 949-646-2181 / FAX 949-646-2185 call for your ibm think pad system boards 949-646-2181 all ibm think pad parts in stock From caprio at dcms.com Thu Apr 4 02:25:09 2002 From: caprio at dcms.com (Don Caprio) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:04:59 2005 Subject: CP/M and Imsai Message-ID: <200204040825.g348P99E002000@dcms.com> >On Wed, 3 Apr 2002, Don Caprio wrote: > >> Any ex employee's of Science Dynamics (Torrance, Ca) out there? Jeff, Neil, >> Ralph, Dave, and Less are you there? > >I know of a Science Dynamics in New Jersey that does inmate telephone >systems. Is this a genuine coincidence or is it possibly the same >company? > >http://www.scidyn.com/ I started working for Science Dynamics in 1972. The company had been around for about five years when I joined. After I left in 81 the company was bought by McDonald Douglas (I think). McDonald Douglas had it for a while ran it into the ground and then it was repurchased by the Ex-CEO. Don't know what happened to it after that. > Science Dynamics Corporation (SciDyn) has been developing and delivering > technologically advanced telecommunication solutions for years. The name > SciDyn may be new to you, but weve been in business now for 25 years. Our > solutions are installed in 18 countries around the world and currently > process more than 250 million minutes per month. I'm sure the common names are just a coincidence. From tothwolf at concentric.net Thu Apr 4 02:58:55 2002 From: tothwolf at concentric.net (Tothwolf) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:02 2005 Subject: 6809 single board computer (was: "New" PDP-8) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 3 Apr 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > > On Tue, 2 Apr 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > > > > > Agreed, it's a horrible connector. But there are not that many better > > > choices. Separate BNCs (which _I_ would like) would be unworkable for > > > the j-random-public. The coax inserts in the D shell (like the 13W3) > > > are not much better and are very expensive. I've been seriously > > > looking for an easy-to-wire, good quality, RGB video connector (say 5 > > > coax cores + logic lines) and have not found one yet. > > > > I think AMP makes some connectors that fit your description, but they are > > pricey. > > And I'll bet they need some expensive (very expensive) crimp tool to > fit them to the cable... Probably so. I currently have a similar problem with what I would have expected to be a common connector...I've got a pile of 0.250" 16-14 "flag-style" fast-on (quick connect) type crimp terminals, and I still can't find a crimper or crimp die for them that isn't in the $800 (AMP's tool) price range. Anyone know of an inexpensive solution for these? I was surprised to find that Paladin or Ideal didn't make a die set for these types of terminals. > One advantage of the SCART connector is that it can be wired using a > normal soldering iron only. As can (real) BNCs of course... Or just about any other quality RF connector... -Toth From dquebbeman at acm.org Thu Apr 4 05:16:09 2002 From: dquebbeman at acm.org (Douglas H. Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:02 2005 Subject: "Re: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New"" Message-ID: <000701c1dbca$1f3d6ac0$e401a8c0@tegjeff.com> > At 07:19 PM 4/3/02 +0000, you wrote: > >Yes, I did know there's second bi-pin bulb held in place of red > >holder in Maglite's end cap hidden under that spring. > >Cheers, > >Wizard > > Hmmm; I'm another magliter, especially the solitaire (1AAA) model. > They're great for looking in dark, recessed spots in old computers :-). I got my Solitaire free by answering a survey from ADP back when I was self-employed. I explained I didn't have a staff, but the caller said that didn't mind. I find the bulbs only lose lifespan when you drop the flashlight a time or two.. they simply aren't shock-resistant. -dq -Douglas Hurst Quebbeman (DougQ at ixnayamspayIgLou.com) [Call me "Doug"] Surgically excise the pig-latin from my e-mail address in order to reply "The large print giveth, and the small print taketh away." -Tom Waits From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Thu Apr 4 05:30:16 2002 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:02 2005 Subject: Strange idea in VAX In-Reply-To: References: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC4706654C@exc-reo1.yagosys.com> Message-ID: <20020404133016.A324011@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Wed, Apr 03, 2002 at 04:40:30PM -0500, Sridhar the POWERful wrote: > If I had the Qbus framebuffer, I wouldn't need the USB keyboard and mouse, Yes. QDSS and QVSS have buid in LK201 / VSxxx interfaces. I have one of each. When I have 4.3BSD-Tahoe and 4.3BSD-Reno running on two of my MicroVAXen, I will try to put this odd things to life. I think that it would fit well in my VCFE exhibition. :-) > I wish AlphaServer 8400's weren't so damn expensive. A DEC 8400 went for less than 2000$ EPay germany last year. I was tempted, but I could resist. I will save this space for a VAX 6660. ;-) -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Thu Apr 4 05:37:35 2002 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:02 2005 Subject: 2016 (was: ZX81 and 6116) In-Reply-To: <20020403051510.YBTK19878.imf22bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> Message-ID: <3CAC571F.2468.2C6F32F6@localhost> > > From: Hans Franke > > So it looks as if ZX 81s are a good source to get 2016s ? > Arrrrrrrrgggggggggghhhhhhhhh! :)) > Would you really trash a ZX81 to get a US$2.00 part which is commonly > available??? If you got some 2016s laying around, I'd be more than willing to frre you of this burden. > If you decide to go through with such a plan, will you please save the > leftover ZX81 parts? Certain parts of these things are becoming very hard > to find. I'll pay the freight if you send them to me! If you don't want > to send them out of Germany please give them to deserving ZX-TEAM members > near you! You realy think I'd dump any computer stuff ? And for Tony, it's not that 2016/6116s are rare, only the 2016s. I got none left in my junkpile. Of course, from a strict functional aproach I can use a 6116 almose anywhere a 2016 was used ... just when restoring a machine I try to use the same type whenever possible, and functional replacements only if there'S no other way. Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From rdd at rddavis.org Wed Apr 3 21:39:11 2002 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:02 2005 Subject: The Future End of Classic Computing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020404033911.GA2001@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Chris, from writings of Wed, Apr 03, 2002 at 02:14:14PM -0500: > Rumor has it (haven't gotten around to trying, as most trailers suck > anyway), if it is streamed with QuickTime, and you have the QuickTime 4.0 > or earlier player, you can bypass their anti-save ability. > > Also, I know a number of the non savable streams become saveable in > QuickTime 5.0 IF it is registered as a Pro version. The funny thing about all this rubbish about copy-protection of audio and video is that one can use very simple means to bypass it. For example, just connect a few wires and use audio out to audio in. Just use a program, like one of the audio mixing programs, for example, or whatever, for making a digital recording. Ok, so one is going from digital to analog to digital, but, one can do this without inducing noticable distortion. As to video, there are digital cameras. :-) Now, I guess providing the aforementioned information makes me a criminal too. What's next, the outlawing of analog audio equipment, and people being arrested for the posession of such equipment or related paraphanalia such as cassette tapes, phonograph styli, or RCA plugs attached to shielded cables? > Humm... better send Apple's QT team to jail, sounds like they are > releasing software that can bypass copy protection. :-) We need more people like them. :-) BTW, has anyone here had any luck with making a copy of a game called Undersea (Underwater?) Adventure for PC-DOS? -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From rdd at rddavis.org Wed Apr 3 12:37:13 2002 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:02 2005 Subject: The Future End of Classic Computing In-Reply-To: <20020403145043.GC880545@uiuc.edu> References: <007501c1da11$4eb70140$7685d642@Smith.earthlink.net> <20020403145043.GC880545@uiuc.edu> Message-ID: <20020403183713.GA1609@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Dan Wright, from writings of Wed, Apr 03, 2002 at 08:50:43AM -0600: > Tony Duell said: > > > > And as for restricting knowledge that could be used to commit crimes, > > well, you'd better remove the brains of most of the population right now... Hasn't that already been done? Based upon everyday observations, something similar appears to have happened to a large percentage of the population, alas. "Education" appears to be responsible. How's that for doublespeak? > Has everyone read _1984_? I just finished it and it's quite good ;) anyway, > very instructive, and frightening, on this point... The instructor that I had for English 102 required the class to read that Orwell book (_1984_) along with Ray Bradburry's _Fahrenheit 451_- you may want to take a look at the later as well. The aforementioned instructor is no longer alive. -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From dquebbeman at acm.org Thu Apr 4 05:40:39 2002 From: dquebbeman at acm.org (Douglas H. Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:02 2005 Subject: The Future End of Classic Computing Message-ID: <000f01c1dbcd$8bb66690$e401a8c0@tegjeff.com> > Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > > DOWN WITH FRED! EVIL PURVEYOR OF ILLEGAL TOOLS OF CRIME!!! FIE! FIE! > > > > Fire up the molten iron vats! > > Hmm Tar and Feathers must have gone out of style. :) And it's pretty hard to run someone out of town on a rail when hardly anyone knows how to make s split-rail fence anymore... ...and Grampa forgot to show me... -dq -Douglas Hurst Quebbeman (DougQ at ixnayamspayIgLou.com) [Call me "Doug"] Surgically excise the pig-latin from my e-mail address in order to reply "The large print giveth, and the small print taketh away." -Tom Waits From jpero at sympatico.ca Thu Apr 4 00:49:27 2002 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:02 2005 Subject: IBM 3192s In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020404114740.DPQR19941.tomts19-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Hi Pat, > Mac Quadra 610, Mac IIci, Quadra 700. $10ea OBO. Has someone claimed the Quadra 700 yet? > -- Pat Cheers, Wizard From jarkko.teppo at er-grp.com Thu Apr 4 05:54:34 2002 From: jarkko.teppo at er-grp.com (jarkko.teppo@er-grp.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:02 2005 Subject: OT: Shoddy hammers (was Re: Shoddy Hardware and other things) In-Reply-To: <000701c1dbca$1f3d6ac0$e401a8c0@tegjeff.com> References: <000701c1dbca$1f3d6ac0$e401a8c0@tegjeff.com> Message-ID: <20020404115434.GE3189@mail.er-grp.com> On Thu, Apr 04, 2002 at 06:16:09AM -0500, Douglas H. Quebbeman wrote: > > I find the bulbs only lose lifespan when you drop the flashlight a > time or two.. they simply aren't shock-resistant. I gave up after destroying all the spare bulbs I had and surgically replaced the bulb with a green led. Sure, I can't see a thing with it but it sure takes them hits a lot better. "When all you've got is a nail, everything looks like a hammer." > > -dq > > -Douglas Hurst Quebbeman (DougQ at ixnayamspayIgLou.com) [Call me "Doug"] > Surgically excise the pig-latin from my e-mail address in order to reply > "The large print giveth, and the small print taketh away." -Tom Waits Uh. I just noticed how hard pig-latin is for someone who's not so adept with the language (previously) known as English :-) What I need now is a mutt-hook + non-perl script to convert ixnaylanguage into English. -- jht From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Apr 4 06:06:43 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:02 2005 Subject: Amish Virus Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020404070643.0081f6e0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> AMISH VIRUS: Thou have just received the Amish Virus. Since we do not have electricity nor computers, thou art on the honor system. Please delete all of thine files. Thank thee. From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Thu Apr 4 05:57:14 2002 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:02 2005 Subject: Ultrix root password In-Reply-To: References: <20020403085439.E319578@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <20020404135714.B324011@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Wed, Apr 03, 2002 at 04:47:38PM -0700, Clint Wolff (VAX collector) wrote: > My goal is also to get Tahoe running on my uVAXen, more the the > learning experience than anything else... Yes. That was one of my intentions too. Once I got that fscked Quasi-BSD thing installed, rebuilding real -Tahoe was reletive easy. Getting -Reno to run is much more work. (Still struggling with libc...) > Heh... I wouldn't expose any of my antiques to the internet... Hee. I visited the HAL2001. Big hacker meeting in .nl last summer. I exposed my PDP 11 running 2.11 BSD to the net with > 3000 hackers^W script kiddys around. It was not hacked. I asume nobody of that script kiddys knows today what a PDP 11 is. :-) There are still some other things independent to networking that may be show stoppers for "modern" software. No mmap(2), only K&R C, ... -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From dquebbeman at acm.org Thu Apr 4 06:00:06 2002 From: dquebbeman at acm.org (Douglas H. Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:02 2005 Subject: CP/M and Imsai Message-ID: <001e01c1dbd0$43454c20$e401a8c0@tegjeff.com> > I started working for Science Dynamics in 1972. The company had been around > for about five years when I joined. After I left in 81 the company was > bought by McDonald Douglas (I think). McDonald Douglas had it for a while ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Unless this is a new food franchise in airports, I think you mean McDonnell-Douglas... ;) -Douglas Hurst Quebbeman (DougQ at ixnayamspayIgLou.com) [Call me "Doug"] Surgically excise the pig-latin from my e-mail address in order to reply "The large print giveth, and the small print taketh away." -Tom Waits From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Thu Apr 4 06:08:22 2002 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:02 2005 Subject: When programming is outlawed, only outlaws will program In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3CAC5E56.23318.2C8B5F8C@localhost> > On Wed, 3 Apr 2002, Doc wrote: > > > You may as well put Fred in jail for Xenocopy, in fact ;) > > They probably will, very soon. :( > Did John Draper write "Easy Writer" WHILE he was in jail? Now, that's the story he told me ... or well, at least what my memory tells me he said. I'm geting old. Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Apr 4 06:32:59 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:02 2005 Subject: M16 vs AR-15 Re: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New" PDP-8)) In-Reply-To: References: <3CABE53E.6020304@internet1.net> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020404073259.008195e0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 11:57 PM 4/3/02 -0600, you wrote: >On Thu, 4 Apr 2002, Chad Fernandez wrote: > >> 3/4 of an inch??? Wow, that would be several presentations, I hope! > > 4 days worth.... >> >> AR-15? I didn't know the military used them. Sure there not M-16's? > > Well, they don't like it if you look too close, and the corporal at >DFW didn't think it was OK at all when I asked to see. But I'm fairly >sure it's the old Colt AR-15. Way, way bigger than a M16. I doubt they were AR-15s. The only ones that the US military ever bought were for the USAF in the early sixtys and before they were accepted and standardized as the M-16. Even those AR-15s were full auto. But most AR-15s are semi-auto only and are sold to the civilian market. The AR-15 and M-16 are exactly the same size. The only difference would be if you got a target version, carbine or something else that is non-standard. But even those use the same receiver, magazine, etc. One thing that might be throwing you off is the fact that the current AR-15s and M16s use a longer heavier barrel and a bigger ROUND hand guard than the Vietnam era M-16s that many people are used to seeing. Incidently, that sale to the USAF is what got the US government (civilian, not military) looking at the question of what was the best arm for the military and that ultimately lead to the abandonment of the M-14 and the adoption of the M-16. (just in time for the fun and games in SEA. Wahoo!) Remember, >these are National Guard, not regular Army. They don't get those little >MP5s. :( Only special forces get those. All regular forces of the USA, USAF, CG, Navy, etc and the NG use M-16s. Police, DEA, US Customs, etc are another story. They can have what ever they're willing to pay for. Joe From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Thu Apr 4 06:41:21 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:02 2005 Subject: taps Re: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New" PDP-8)) In-Reply-To: References: <000d01c1db28$1967eaa0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020404074121.00818e70@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 12:31 AM 4/4/02 +0100, Tony wrote: >> I personally have used a die for threading rod only once in the ~30 years over > >I've used small metric dies quite a few times for making custom >screwposts for IEEE-488 connectors, etc. It's a pain to use a lathe to >cut short, fine-pitch, threads unless you have to. > >> which I've owned one. Normally, when I needed a tap, I simply bought one, for >> about half a dollar. Now, I'm not quite ready to give up the tap wrenches I > >There's something wrong here. You get taps for 50 cents? Over here I pay >about \pounds 5,00 for normal sized ones and a _lot_ more for very large >or very small ones. > >Of course I only buy known name-brand HSS taps. The cheap carbon steel >ones with badly formed threads are not worth bothering with.... That's probably why he's throwing them away and buying new ones everytime! I have some taps that date back to the early 1900s and are still in good condition. Odd size taps costs a small fortune! I've got some that cost well over $200 each (not that I paid that much for them). I probably have over $5000 worth of taps alone and they all fit into cabinet that measures 8 x 12 x 15". Joe From dquebbeman at acm.org Thu Apr 4 06:53:57 2002 From: dquebbeman at acm.org (Douglas H. Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:02 2005 Subject: When programming is outlawed, only outlaws will program Message-ID: <006801c1dbd7$c8b7b9e0$e401a8c0@tegjeff.com> > > On Wed, 3 Apr 2002, Doc wrote: > > > > You may as well put Fred in jail for Xenocopy, in fact ;) > > > They probably will, very soon. :( > > > > Did John Draper write "Easy Writer" WHILE he was in jail? > > Now, that's the story he told me ... or well, at least > what my memory tells me he said. I'm geting old. Here's an early reference, from the comments of the source code to FIG-FORTH 1.1 dated 17-September-1979, one year after I met him on exit from Harrisville: ; APPLE FORTH BY CapN' SOFTWARE $40.00 ; EASYWRITER (word processor for APPLE ; by CapN' SOFTWARE) $100.00 So it appears it was an Apple II package before it was an IBM package. -dq -Douglas Hurst Quebbeman (DougQ at ixnayamspayIgLou.com) [Call me "Doug"] Surgically excise the pig-latin from my e-mail address in order to reply "The large print giveth, and the small print taketh away." -Tom Waits From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Thu Apr 4 07:08:13 2002 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:02 2005 Subject: When programming is outlawed, only outlaws will program In-Reply-To: <006801c1dbd7$c8b7b9e0$e401a8c0@tegjeff.com> Message-ID: <3CAC6C5D.15180.2CC22DB3@localhost> From: "Douglas H. Quebbeman" To: "ClassicCmp List" Subject: Re: When programming is outlawed, only outlaws will program Date sent: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 07:53:57 -0500 Send reply to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > > On Wed, 3 Apr 2002, Doc wrote: > > > > > You may as well put Fred in jail for Xenocopy, in fact ;) > > > > They probably will, very soon. :( > > > > > > Did John Draper write "Easy Writer" WHILE he was in jail? > > > > Now, that's the story he told me ... or well, at least > > what my memory tells me he said. I'm geting old. > Here's an early reference, from the comments of the source code > to FIG-FORTH 1.1 dated 17-September-1979, one year after I met > him on exit from Harrisville: > ; APPLE FORTH BY CapN' SOFTWARE $40.00 > ; EASYWRITER (word processor for APPLE > ; by CapN' SOFTWARE) $100.00 > So it appears it was an Apple II package before it was an IBM package. Of course it was - I always thought we are talking about the Apple Version. The IBM port was later on developed. As a fun fact he told me that they used an 8086 S100 system from Seattle Computer Products for development, since they didn't get any hardware info from IBM, except that the CPU is an Intel 8086. So when the IBM guys finaly came around with a super secret PC prototyp - only to be given to them for one day and only while the IBM staff was at site, they managed to get the Easy Writer working within two hours or so ... Well, I liked the sory anyway. Gruss H. BTW: who remembers the key combination to get into forth from within the Apple version ? -- VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From at258 at osfn.org Thu Apr 4 08:13:31 2002 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:02 2005 Subject: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New" PDP-8)) In-Reply-To: <3CABBEA0.3030608@internet1.net> Message-ID: BA is British Association. I think 2BA and 4BA are the most common sizes we might see. UNC is Unified Coarse which is almost, but not quite, the same as ANC. BA is not Whitworth. On Wed, 3 Apr 2002, Chad Fernandez wrote: > Tony Duell wrote: > >>If your screws aren't 6x32's already, the easiest and probably most practical > >>thing to do is get a 6x32 roll-tap, and "fix" the application so you can get > >>the "right" screws whenever you need. > > > > > > Fine in the States, but have you tried getting 6-32 screws (or any small > > UNC screws) over in the UK? They are essentially unobtainable. ISO metric > > (M3) are trivial to get, so are the strange 'BA' screws (strange because > > of the 47.5 degree thread angle foe one thing!). > > What is UNC, and BA? Is BA WHitworth? > > I rarely find computers (pc's) that use "American" threaded screws..... > probably becasue so much of the stuff is from China :-( > > Chad Fernandez > Michigan, USA > > > > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Apr 4 08:15:06 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:02 2005 Subject: CP/M and Imsai In-Reply-To: <001e01c1dbd0$43454c20$e401a8c0@tegjeff.com> Message-ID: <20020404141506.56645.qmail@web20110.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Douglas H. Quebbeman" wrote: > > I started working for Science Dynamics in 1972. The company had been > around > > for about five years when I joined. After I left in 81 the company was > > bought by McDonald Douglas (I think). McDonald Douglas had it for a > while > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > Unless this is a new food franchise in airports, > I think you mean McDonnell-Douglas... > > ;) You want fries with that MD-80? -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Apr 4 08:23:32 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:02 2005 Subject: 2016 (was: ZX81 and 6116) In-Reply-To: <3CAC571F.2468.2C6F32F6@localhost> Message-ID: <20020404142333.32014.qmail@web20104.mail.yahoo.com> --- Hans Franke wrote: > > > From: Hans Franke > > > So it looks as if ZX 81s are a good source to get 2016s ? > > > Arrrrrrrrgggggggggghhhhhhhhh! > > :)) Hans, one of these times when you pull someone's leg, it's going to come right off in your hand. :-) > If you got some 2016s laying around, I'd be more than willing > to frre you of this burden. Not free, but... > And for Tony, it's not that 2016/6116s are rare, only the 2016s. > I got none left in my junkpile. bgmicro.com - 2016, 2Kx8, 200ns - $1.00 each (same price as their 6116s). They also appear to have 2118-4 16K(bit?) SRAMs - $0.70. Weren't these one of the other ZX81 drop-ins that we've been discussing? I just discovered a part in their catalog for my next order - 4027 DRAM... They appear on some PDP-11/03 CPU boards, and in my Gorf cabinet, IIRC. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Thu Apr 4 08:30:59 2002 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:02 2005 Subject: 2016 (was: ZX81 and 6116) In-Reply-To: <20020404142333.32014.qmail@web20104.mail.yahoo.com> References: <3CAC571F.2468.2C6F32F6@localhost> Message-ID: <3CAC7FC3.29252.2D0DF348@localhost> > > > > From: Hans Franke > > > > So it looks as if ZX 81s are a good source to get 2016s ? > > > Arrrrrrrrgggggggggghhhhhhhhh! > > :)) > Hans, one of these times when you pull someone's leg, it's going to > come right off in your hand. :-) hmmm... > > And for Tony, it's not that 2016/6116s are rare, only the 2016s. > > I got none left in my junkpile. > bgmicro.com - 2016, 2Kx8, 200ns - $1.00 each (same price as their 6116s). > They also appear to have 2118-4 16K(bit?) SRAMs - $0.70. Weren't these > one of the other ZX81 drop-ins that we've been discussing? I just > discovered a part in their catalog for my next order - 4027 DRAM... > They appear on some PDP-11/03 CPU boards, and in my Gorf cabinet, IIRC. Ahh. Thank you (good Morning anyway :) Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From edick at idcomm.com Thu Apr 4 08:33:11 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:02 2005 Subject: taps Re: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New" PDP-8)) References: <000d01c1db28$1967eaa0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> <3.0.6.32.20020404074121.00818e70@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <002801c1dbe5$a60c4420$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> See below, plz. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe" To: Sent: Thursday, April 04, 2002 5:41 AM Subject: taps Re: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New" PDP-8)) > At 12:31 AM 4/4/02 +0100, Tony wrote: > >> I personally have used a die for threading rod only once in the ~30 years over > > > >I've used small metric dies quite a few times for making custom > >screwposts for IEEE-488 connectors, etc. It's a pain to use a lathe to > >cut short, fine-pitch, threads unless you have to. > > > >> which I've owned one. Normally, when I needed a tap, I simply bought one, for > >> about half a dollar. Now, I'm not quite ready to give up the tap wrenches I > > > >There's something wrong here. You get taps for 50 cents? Over here I pay > >about \pounds 5,00 for normal sized ones and a _lot_ more for very large > >or very small ones. > Large taps cost more because there's more steel in them. A small tap is the size of a pencil lead, while a large tap is the size of a drinking glass. Common sizes are cheap, but the smaller ones are easy to break. Most of the taps I've seen broken, or broken myself, have been broken in a hand operation rather than in a machine. Once set up in a machine, they generally go dull before they break. A few out of every box do break, however. > > >Of course I only buy known name-brand HSS taps. The cheap carbon steel > >ones with badly formed threads are not worth bothering with.... > > That's probably why he's throwing them away and buying new ones everytime! I have some taps that date back to the early 1900s and are still in good condition. Odd size taps costs a small fortune! I've got some that cost well over $200 each (not that I paid that much for them). I probably have over $5000 worth of taps alone and they all fit into cabinet that measures 8 x 12 x 15". > That's not necessarily the case, if you tap 10K holes per day. You buy lots of taps because every 30th-100th time you have to replace the by now dull tap with a sharp one. You then decide whether you want to buy new ones or have them sharpened. New ones are generally cheaper, so you sell the ones you don't break to someone who sharpens them and resells them You can buy resharpened taps, too. From edick at idcomm.com Thu Apr 4 08:36:51 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:02 2005 Subject: 2016 (was: ZX81 and 6116) References: <20020404142333.32014.qmail@web20104.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <003401c1dbe6$2939cf20$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> see below plz. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ethan Dicks" To: Sent: Thursday, April 04, 2002 7:23 AM Subject: Re: 2016 (was: ZX81 and 6116) > > --- Hans Franke wrote: > > > > From: Hans Franke > > > > So it looks as if ZX 81s are a good source to get 2016s ? > > > > > Arrrrrrrrgggggggggghhhhhhhhh! > > > > :)) > > Hans, one of these times when you pull someone's leg, it's going to > come right off in your hand. :-) > > > If you got some 2016s laying around, I'd be more than willing > > to frre you of this burden. > > Not free, but... > > > And for Tony, it's not that 2016/6116s are rare, only the 2016s. > > I got none left in my junkpile. > > bgmicro.com - 2016, 2Kx8, 200ns - $1.00 each (same price as their 6116s). > They also appear to have 2118-4 16K(bit?) SRAMs - $0.70. Weren't these 2118's are 16Kbx1 5-volt-only DRAMs. > one of the other ZX81 drop-ins that we've been discussing? I just > discovered a part in their catalog for my next order - 4027 DRAM... I've still got a few (<100) 4027 types that I'd be happy to donate to whomever for the cost of USPS priority mail, just in case someone has a device that needs 'em. > They appear on some PDP-11/03 CPU boards, and in my Gorf cabinet, IIRC. > > -ethan > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax > http://taxes.yahoo.com/ > > From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Thu Apr 4 08:45:57 2002 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:02 2005 Subject: CD-ROM on RT-11? References: Message-ID: <3CAC6725.849C9ABC@compsys.to> >Tom Leffingwell wrote: > >On Thu, 21 Mar 2002, Jerome H. Fine wrote: > > If you are going to have a CD on your real PDP-11 with a Qbus host adapter, > > then if you want to be able to boot partition zero, I suggest you use the > > command: > > COPY/BOOT DU0:RT11XM.SYS DU0: > > to the partition you are going to place on the CD. MANY other aspects also > > need to be considered if it will be a bootable partition. > I've been out of touch with the list for a little while, so I just got > this. Anyway, what would the many aspects be? I was operating on the > assumption that the image I would get or make would have already been > copy/boot'ed so, it should be a bootable image, and if transferred as an > exact image to the CD it should work. Jerome Fine replies: Since I have used a CD burner for only a month, I was limited to the experience of using only the RT-11 Freeware CD from Tim Shoppa. Also, since I had only an IDE CDROM drive on a PC, my experience using the CD was only under E11 under Windows 95 and Windows 98. I did try and connect a SCSI CDROM drive to a Qbus CQD 220/TM on a real PDP-11, but was not able to get it to work. More recently, I think I have been able to copy a file which had been tested to see if it could be used to successfully boot RT-11 (under E11 under Windows 98). I copied that file to a CD and was able to "View" all of the blocks on the CD in their correct locations on the CD using Nero Burning, but I was still not able to boot RT-11 from the CD. One key aspect to realize is that RT-11 knows only about blocks that are 512 bytes. Since a CD has a 2048 byte sector, that problem must be overcome, but is not the only problem. Fortunately, a CD is a READ ONLY media, so problems associated with writes don't ever arise. One problem that RT-11 does not have is that the drive media is not required to be writable, although there will sometimes be SWAP errors after a program exits - which can be avoided by using the command SET EXIT NOSWAP All I am saying is that a CDROM drive is not a supported drive under RT-11. And while I am sure that it is possible to write a file which is a bootable image to a CD, the correct combination of hardware is not well specified in my mind. If you are actually able to boot RT-11 from a CD, it would be appreciated if you would tell us the specific hardware components which you used along with the software version of RT-11. One aspect to note for V5.03 of RT-11 is that you may be able to read a non-zero partition, however, the standard DEC distributed MSCP device driver is UNABLE to boot from a non-zero partition. So if SET DU1 UNIT=0,PART=1 COPY/BOOT DU1:RT11XM.SYS DU1: are used with V5.03 of RT-11, it is impossible to boot from DU1: using the DEC version of the MSCP device driver. This is not a problem with V5.06 of RT-11, so obviously it is a software bug. > I did finally manage to get my RX02's copied to a VMS machine. The guy > that was helping me (who had the vax/vms machine) was out of town for > awhile. Anyway, we copied an image of a bootable floppy to the VMS > machine, and back to a new floppy, which booted fine with no need to > copy/boot it (since the imagine was already that way). We also used VMS > exchange to may .dsk files. I need to read up a little more on exchange, > but I was thinking if I can work with the .dsk imagines of the ftpable > RT-11 5.03, I should be copy in my program and then copy that to a SCSI > disk, make sure its bootable, and then make an image of it. The .dsk > files seem to be little file on file systems as opposed to just making an > image. Using Exchange under VMS had certain annoying limitations the last time I used it. While it was possible to MOUNT the file or the drive as "/FOREIGN", there was no variable to specify the partition. Thus the default was ONLY partition zero. It was possible to circumvent this problem with a hard drive that is also compatible with PDP-11 hardware (the only one I know of is a SCSI hard drive or a removable media such as Magneto Optical), but it was not simple. One problem you may have with the downloaded DEC distribution of V5.03 of RT-11 is that the boot block zero assumes an RL02 disk drive. If you copy it to an MSCP media, then you must COPY/BOOT DU0:RT11XM.SYS DU0: if you are going to do a hardware boot. However, if you can first boot from the floppy under V5.03 of RT-11 (which also poses a problem - but not too difficult), then you can do a soft boot via the command: BOOT DU0:RT11XM after which you can then set up the boot blocks via COPY/BOOT DU0:RT11XM.SYS DU0: Some information helpful to understand the boot process under RT-11. (a) In a hardware boot, the primary program in the EPROM is used to read BLOCK ZERO on the specified disk drive media. (b) The secondary boot program in BLOCK ZERO is usually read into memory locations starting at address zero and normally the first word MUST be the NOP instruction. (c) In RT-11, the secondary boot program then reads the tertiary boot program in blocks 2,3,4,5 of the disk drive media and those 4 blocks are sufficient to read the specified monitor and device driver files. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Thu Apr 4 08:46:13 2002 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:02 2005 Subject: OT: Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you. Message-ID: One more reason to stick to classic hardware/software: http://www.msnbc.com/news/732958.asp?0dm=C18MT&cp1=1#BODY "A California company has quietly attached its software to millions of downloads of the popular Kazaa file-trading program and plans to remotely turn on people's PCs, welding them into a new network of its own." From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Thu Apr 4 08:58:09 2002 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:02 2005 Subject: CP/M and Imsai In-Reply-To: <000401c1db1f$2f44ed40$3a7b7b7b@ajp> Message-ID: <3CAC8621.12593.2D26D1BD@localhost> > >All of my boxes that run CP/M run 2.2 built from the source > >found at the "unofficial CP/M web site": > Some of those I copied to Tim! I was useing them back when > to build mine, from the emergence of V2.2 on. > >http://www.retroarchive.org/cpm/archive/unofficial/ > Da place! Isn't http://www.gaby.de/cpm/index.html more like the official unofficial web site ? AFAIR Retroarchive is only snapshoot of the old site, while the pages at gaby.de are still maintained (and extended). Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Apr 4 09:06:41 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:02 2005 Subject: Apple II 13-sector disks In-Reply-To: <10202270122.ZM20050@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <20020404150641.73130.qmail@web20107.mail.yahoo.com> --- Pete Turnbull wrote: > On Feb 26, 8:50, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > On Tue, 26 Feb 2002, Paul R. Santa-Maria wrote: > > > > > I have received a box of old Apple II disks including a bunch of > > > 13-sector disks... Does anyone here still have the 13-sector boot > > > PROMs for the Disk II controller card? > > > > These are small 256-byte PROMs; can anyone here burn them if I cannot > > > find originals? I can. We used 6309s in our original COMBOARD-I. I don't know if I can download a file into my ancient programmer, but I know it will copy 256 byte bi-polar PROMs (I made many, many sets on it as a teenage stock boy/part monkey). Worst case, we type the bytes in on the hex keypad. There's a 74-series drop-in replacement for the 6309, 74S471? I know in the late 1980s, we were having problems getting PROMs to make boards. Don't know where to get blanks from these days. Of course, one could manufacture a 27xx->6309 pin swabber and use a 2716 or other readily available EPROM. There might be a vertical clearance problem with that, but electrically, it should work just fine. > > I've been searching for years and I don't think I've ever even seen a > > 13-sector disk controller. Just about everybody updated their old > > 13-sector boot controller when the 16-sector version came out. That's my memory. I haven't used a 13-sector disk in a very long time. > As Sellam implies, it's only the boot PROM (P5) you need to change, not > the state machine PROM (P6). I have a card somewhere with BOTH sets, > switch selectable, but I haven't seen it for a while. If anyone can cough up an old PROM, that's the first step. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ From fernande at internet1.net Thu Apr 4 09:14:22 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:02 2005 Subject: Amish Virus References: <3.0.6.32.20020404070643.0081f6e0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3CAC6DCE.7010309@internet1.net> Haha, thats great!! This is one "virus" that I do plan on spreading :-) Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Joe wrote: > > AMISH VIRUS: > > Thou have just received the Amish Virus. > Since we do not have electricity nor computers, > thou art on the honor system. Please delete all > of thine files. > > Thank thee. > > > > From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Thu Apr 4 09:29:28 2002 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (Allison) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:02 2005 Subject: CP/M and Imsai Message-ID: <002001c1dbed$8ca76fc0$3a7b7b7b@ajp> From: Hans Franke >> >http://www.retroarchive.org/cpm/archive/unofficial/ > >> Da place! > >Isn't I saw it and forgot. > >http://www.gaby.de/cpm/index.html > >more like the official unofficial web site ? >AFAIR Retroarchive is only snapshoot of the old site, >while the pages at gaby.de are still maintained (and >extended). Is a good thing. The extensions are very fine. Allison From fernande at internet1.net Thu Apr 4 09:27:28 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:02 2005 Subject: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New" PDP-8)) References: Message-ID: <3CAC70E0.4070503@internet1.net> What is ANC? Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Merle K. Peirce wrote: > BA is British Association. I think 2BA and 4BA are the most common sizes > we might see. UNC is Unified Coarse which is almost, but not quite, the > same as ANC. BA is not Whitworth. From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Thu Apr 4 09:40:36 2002 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:02 2005 Subject: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New"" Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA615014677F2@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> > From: Douglas H. Quebbeman > > > At 07:19 PM 4/3/02 +0000, you wrote: > > >Yes, I did know there's second bi-pin bulb held in place of red > > >holder in Maglite's end cap hidden under that spring. > > >Cheers, > > >Wizard > > > > Hmmm; I'm another magliter, especially the solitaire (1AAA) model. > > They're great for looking in dark, recessed spots in old computers :-). > > I got my Solitaire free by answering a survey from ADP back when I > was self-employed. I explained I didn't have a staff, but the caller said > that didn't mind. > > I find the bulbs only lose lifespan when you drop the flashlight a > time or two.. they simply aren't shock-resistant. > > -dq > > - Well, I keep a 2 AA size Maglite in each of my two toolboxes, and a 3 D cel Mag under the front seat of my truck. It does pretty good for some hammer type work... --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 Mac OS X 10.1.2 - Darwin Kernel Version 5.2: Fri Dec 7 21:39:35 PST 2001 Running since 01/22/2002 without a crash From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Thu Apr 4 09:48:03 2002 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:02 2005 Subject: [was: RE: The Future End of Classic Computing] Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA615014677F3@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> > From: Chris > .... > F-ing scary! > > Remember, this is the country that awarded 3 million dollars to a lady > because she put her hot coffee in her lap, and then spilled it... and was > able to sue McDonalds because the coffee was too hot and it burned her > (yes, there is more to that story, but the fact that she was even able to > get to trial is just f-ed up... where is the personal responsibility in > this country?!?) > > -chris > Amen brother! C'mon who, in their right mind, would put a _paper_ cup full of hot coffee between their legs while in a car! That chick has to some kind of moron! Are people afraid of taking responsibility for their actions? Geez, they only claim it when it's for their benefit, or when the result is good. Otherwise, it's the other guy's fault... Sorry about that. Had to get it off my chest... --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 Mac OS X 10.1.2 - Darwin Kernel Version 5.2: Fri Dec 7 21:39:35 PST 2001 Running since 01/22/2002 without a crash From foo at siconic.com Thu Apr 4 01:44:52 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:02 2005 Subject: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New" PDP-8)) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 3 Apr 2002, Doc wrote: > > Wow, that would have made me very upset. I'm all for security, but not > > them confiscating my property, just becasue it resembles a gun barrel. > > It's a working flashlight, made by the thousands, nothing special, not > > some James Bond, Man With a Golden Gun weapon. > > Well, I guess "confiscated" was the wrong term. My checked baggage > was checked, my ride dropped me and left, and my only option was to > leave it there or leave with it. So if Jim hadn't been on shift, I'd > have probably lost my light. > It _felt_ like confiscation, and I _was_ upset. Next time, do what my dad did when he was on his way back to the US from a trip abroad and the security folks gave him all sorts of hassle over his Leatherman tool. After arguing with them for about half an hour (they wanted to confiscate and destroy it, and he was having none of that), he finally suggested they give it to the pilot to hold during the flight, to which they obliged. When he landed, the pilot handed it back to him and all was well ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Thu Apr 4 01:48:15 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:02 2005 Subject: "When programming is outlawed, only outlaws will program"" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 3 Apr 2002, William R. Buckley wrote: > I once met John Draper at a Hackers Conference. He did not seem > that bad a person to know. What is it about him that others on > this list find undesireable? Perhaps it's his penchant for asking young hacker boys to come home with him and "share massages" so that he would feel comfortable discussing his past with them. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Thu Apr 4 01:54:30 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:02 2005 Subject: When programming is outlawed, only outlaws will program In-Reply-To: <3CAC6C5D.15180.2CC22DB3@localhost> Message-ID: On Thu, 4 Apr 2002, Hans Franke wrote: > > Here's an early reference, from the comments of the source code > > to FIG-FORTH 1.1 dated 17-September-1979, one year after I met > > him on exit from Harrisville: > > > ; APPLE FORTH BY CapN' SOFTWARE $40.00 > > ; EASYWRITER (word processor for APPLE > > ; by CapN' SOFTWARE) $100.00 > > > So it appears it was an Apple II package before it was an IBM package. > > Of course it was - I always thought we are talking > about the Apple Version. The IBM port was later on > developed. As a fun fact he told me that they used > an 8086 S100 system from Seattle Computer Products > for development, since they didn't get any hardware > info from IBM, except that the CPU is an Intel 8086. The funniest thing is opening up an IBM manual and seeing the name of John Draper inside. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From jfoust at threedee.com Thu Apr 4 09:56:54 2002 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:02 2005 Subject: OT Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New" PDP-8)) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.0.20020404095038.02c91708@pc> At 07:44 AM 4/4/2002 +0000, Sellam Ismail wrote: >Next time, do what my dad did when he was on his way back to the US from a >trip abroad and the security folks gave him all sorts of hassle over his >Leatherman tool. After arguing with them for about half an hour (they >wanted to confiscate and destroy it, and he was having none of that), he >finally suggested they give it to the pilot to hold during the flight, to >which they obliged. When he landed, the pilot handed it back to him and >all was well ;) I think what they should do is hand out multi-tools to everyone on the flight. If there are more passengers than hijackers, I think they can overpower them. I finished high school in 1981 in Wisconsin. I distinctly remember being able to bring a rifle and ammunition to school in order to go hunting when the day ended. - John From jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org Thu Apr 4 10:02:15 2002 From: jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org (James B. DiGriz) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:02 2005 Subject: "When programming is outlawed, only outlaws will program"" References: Message-ID: <3CAC7907.1000003@dragonsweb.org> William R. Buckley wrote: > > > I once met John Draper at a Hackers Conference. He did not seem > that bad a person to know. What is it about him that others on > this list find undesireable? > > William R. Buckley > Why do people not like, say, Jim Goad, when they revere a lovable old "misanthrope" like H.L. Mencken or Mr. Clemens? I don't know John, but I think Doug covered this one pretty well already. He's an ex-con. In our culture, even just being accused of a crime is a big sign plastered to your back, saying, justly or not, "I am a loser." If you maintain your innocence, or unrepentence, or even just your worth as a human being, you can also very easily wave that sign in people's faces, if you aren't very careful. Not saying that it isn't worthwhile. Just that there's a stigma there, one which most people fear is contagious, and may well be in some cases. Which is not an accident, nor benign, but we are off-topic enough here, so I won't go into that. As an aside, I would recommend people add "Papillon" to their reading lists along with "1984", "Fahrenheit 451", and the tech manuals. Especially pay attention to the part about the leper colony. jbdigriz From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Thu Apr 4 10:02:39 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:02 2005 Subject: Amish Virus References: <3.0.6.32.20020404070643.0081f6e0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <3CAC791F.6F261F1F@jetnet.ab.ca> Joe wrote: > > > AMISH VIRUS: > > Thou have just received the Amish Virus. > Since we do not have electricity nor computers, > thou art on the honor system. Please delete all > of thine files. > > Thank thee. Thou have no Stamp, returning to thy sender. From dquebbeman at acm.org Thu Apr 4 10:07:16 2002 From: dquebbeman at acm.org (Douglas H. Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:02 2005 Subject: Enhanced DRI PL/I-86 Compiler Available Message-ID: <000701c1dbf2$cb070cd0$e401a8c0@tegjeff.com> > > Some of those I copied to Tim! I was useing them back when > > to build mine, from the emergence of V2.2 on. > > > >http://www.retroarchive.org/cpm/archive/unofficial/ > > > Da place! > > Isn't > > http://www.gaby.de/cpm/index.html > > more like the official unofficial web site ? A couple of years ago, I put some finishing touches on a project I began back in 1988, when I got a copy of the DRI PL/I-86 compiler. Back then, it wasn't the freeware that it is today. But of course, today, you can download it from either of the two sites above. My goal was to modify it so that it one could use the Microsoft linker and librarian instead of the DRI linker and librarian; with this change it would be possible to mix object modules from other Microsoft-compatible compilers. Also, I wanted to revise and extend the runtime system. I completed most everything except providing access to DOS environment variables. But the DATE() and TIME() BIFs work as they should, and you can pass the command line arguments by defining them as arguments to main() much as in C. DRI and Microsoft both used the Intel OMF format for the object files, so it wasn't hard. But like many projects, it just got stalled for along time. I recently packaged it up and forwarded it to Peter Flass, noted PL/I advocate who's omnipresent on comp.lang.pli. He's going to include it in some archive, but didn't mention which. You may or may not end up seeing at the two above sites. But if anyone out there is interested in it, you can also obtain it directly from me. Regards, -dq -Douglas Hurst Quebbeman (DougQ at ixnayamspayIgLou.com) [Call me "Doug"] Surgically excise the pig-latin from my e-mail address in order to reply "The large print giveth, and the small print taketh away." -Tom Waits From marvin at rain.org Thu Apr 4 10:09:17 2002 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:02 2005 Subject: ibm thinkpad parts References: <011001c1dbb2$ed287dc0$1c4aa518@socal.rr.com> Message-ID: <3CAC7AAD.D01A29B4@rain.org> A spamcop report has been filed. ********** Chris Lillie wrote: > > IN STOCK DEALS!! > > 02K6900 IBM TP 1400 ac adapter 350 > 20.00 new > 10L1259 IBM TP 770Z system board 50 > 150.00 new > 12J1944 IBM TP 365x keyboard 403 > 10.00 new > 12J2005 IBM TP 770 keyboard assembly/unit 500 > 15.00 new > 30L2533 IBM TP 770x system board 59 > 150.00 new > 30L2736 IBM TP 570 system board 140 > 145.00 new > 08K3315 IBM TP A20m system board Celeron 200 > 280.00 ref > 13P3156 IBM TP A20m sys board PIII 750 150 > 355.00 new > 10L1353 IBM TP SYS BD TP600X 2645 3 > 350.00 NEW > 02k6639 IBM TP 570 BATTERY LITH/ION 30 > 35.00 NEW > PA2450U Toshiba AC ADAPTER TECRA 530 550 8000 P7000 100 > 29.00NEW > 29H9395 KEYBOARD IBM TP 760C/CD /ED 760EL/ L/LD 300 > 10.00NEW > 29H9226 11.1 TFT LCD IBM TP 760C/CD /ED 760EL/ L/LD 100 > 26.00NEW > 45H5735 12.1 TFT LCD IBM TP 760C/CD /ED 760EL/ L/LD 100 > 28.00NEW > 19K5686 IBM IEEE 1394 PCMCIA CARD BUS 200 > 28.00NEW > DDYS-T36950 IBM 36.7 GB 10K RPM P/N 07N3235 100 > 225.00NEW > > SOLID TECHNOLOGY > 1599 Superior Ave. A2 > Costa Mesa, CA 92627 > 949-646-2181 / FAX 949-646-2185 > call for your ibm think pad system boards 949-646-2181 > all ibm think pad parts in stock From jfoust at threedee.com Thu Apr 4 10:00:32 2002 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:03 2005 Subject: "When programming is outlawed, only outlaws will program"" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.0.20020404095810.02346e68@pc> At 07:48 AM 4/4/2002 +0000, Sellam Ismail wrote: >Perhaps it's his penchant for asking young hacker boys to come home with >him and "share massages" so that he would feel comfortable discussing his >past with them. For me as young cute hacker magazine writer, it was the invitation / demand that a good time to do the interview would be while "working out" with him in the hotel gym. No other time would work. I declined... - John From allain at panix.com Thu Apr 4 10:18:13 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:03 2005 Subject: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New"" References: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA615014677F2@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> Message-ID: <005301c1dbf4$52552720$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> While we're on flashlights I really should rave again for white LED ones. My favorite can cast a 150 degree solid pyramid of pure white light, absent of any filament artifacts, for 10 hours off one 9v battery. If you turn it down 1 notch, you get 100 hours life. These things are incredible. John A. From wh.sudbrink at verizon.net Thu Apr 4 10:29:36 2002 From: wh.sudbrink at verizon.net (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:03 2005 Subject: CP/M and Imsai In-Reply-To: <3CAC8621.12593.2D26D1BD@localhost> Message-ID: > > >http://www.retroarchive.org/cpm/archive/unofficial/ > > > Da place! > > Isn't > > http://www.gaby.de/cpm/index.html > > more like the official unofficial web site ? Sorry. I had no idea. I've had a "favorite" set to retroarchive for years. I'll have to change it. From jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org Thu Apr 4 10:44:10 2002 From: jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org (James B. DiGriz) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:03 2005 Subject: OT: Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to rob you. References: Message-ID: <3CAC82DA.4090506@dragonsweb.org> Feldman, Robert wrote: > One more reason to stick to classic hardware/software: > > http://www.msnbc.com/news/732958.asp?0dm=C18MT&cp1=1#BODY > > "A California company has quietly attached its software to millions of > downloads of the popular Kazaa file-trading program and plans to remotely > turn on people's PCs, welding them into a new network of its own." > > > If you look at the license agreement you'll see you're agreeing to this, and giving them use rights to your computer's resources. In principle, it's no different from things like Mnet, but it's obvious they're playing on people's ignorance and over-riding desire to exchange files. Odds are you're going to get the short end of the stick. But it's "for business", so therefore it's good. Count me out, though. I run Seti clients, and I'd be happy to consider running distributed processes for pay. I even joined one or two of those projects that never got off the ground and disappeared after the dot.bomb. I would much rather do that and then pay for CD and movie downloads and such out of the proceeds. Note that that last does *not* require a govt. bureaucracy and govt. sanctioned and designed hardware or software, or even centralized distribution and marketing. Which is what really terrifies Hollywood, record labels, broadcasters, the advertising industry, etc. *Not* "piracy". jbdigriz From mythtech at mac.com Thu Apr 4 10:45:39 2002 From: mythtech at mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:03 2005 Subject: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New" PDP-8)) Message-ID: > Well, I guess "confiscated" was the wrong term. My checked baggage > was checked, my ride dropped me and left, and my only option was to > leave it there or leave with it. So if Jim hadn't been on shift, I'd > have probably lost my light. > It _felt_ like confiscation, and I _was_ upset. The airport in New Orleans confiscated (yes, took away and kept, never to return) a mini stapler my father had in his laptop bag. This is one of those staplers that is about an inch long, holds 20 staples of that super mini, can't staple thru more than two sheets of paper, size. This was back in November, so everyone was a bit more paranoid. But he showed them it was just a stapler... and they still took it away as a "weapon". I would LOVE to see that happen.... take me to Cuba or I'll fail to break your skin with my mini shards of metal, in my lethal squeeze powered dispenser! Don't make me empty this thing onto my shoe... I'll do it... I'm just crazy enough! And if that doesn't scare you... I'll beat you with this airline pillow! Hell, you could do more damage by sitting in the exit row, and pulling the shiny red handle on the wall. -chris From geoff at pkworks.com Thu Apr 4 11:14:25 2002 From: geoff at pkworks.com (Geoffrey G. Rochat) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:03 2005 Subject: Harris Model 8 CPU Message-ID: <00ef01c1dbfc$2d9278e0$1677f4d0@dialup> I got a phone call early this morning from one Harry Landis, a surplus dealer in Foxboro, MA, who knows I like old computers. He has eight boards from a Harris Model 8 CPU, said to be used in their 60, 600 and 700 systems, including the two board CPU. He wanted to know if I wanted them. I said no, but that I'd check around - hence this e-mail. I've not seen the boards and do not know their condition, nor do I know what Harry wants for them (and, no, I'm not financially involved in this in any way), but if anyone's interested give Harry a call at 508-285-7568. From mythtech at mac.com Thu Apr 4 11:06:35 2002 From: mythtech at mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:03 2005 Subject: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New"" Message-ID: >While we're on flashlights I really should rave again >for white LED ones. My favorite can cast a 150 >degree solid pyramid of pure white light, absent of >any filament artifacts, for 10 hours off one 9v battery. >If you turn it down 1 notch, you get 100 hours life. >These things are incredible. I have one of those squeeze model LED ones clipped to my keys. Works nicely for temp lighting (the squeeze and hold activation makes it a bit hard to use for long term lighting). It was marketed as a "white LED", but it definitely casts a blue tint in my opinion. Not enough to off set colors to an indistinguishable point, but enough to tell that it looks blue. I use the thing all the time when glancing for wires in a dropped ceiling, or when looking into the dark corners in or behind a computer case (just to bring it on topic). Overall, not bad for a $3 item (actually, I got it free as a gift, but have seen it sold for $3) -chris From jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org Thu Apr 4 11:09:09 2002 From: jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org (James B. DiGriz) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:03 2005 Subject: "When programming is outlawed, only outlaws will program"" References: <5.0.0.25.0.20020404095810.02346e68@pc> Message-ID: <3CAC88B5.10906@dragonsweb.org> John Foust wrote: > At 07:48 AM 4/4/2002 +0000, Sellam Ismail wrote: > >>Perhaps it's his penchant for asking young hacker boys to come home with >>him and "share massages" so that he would feel comfortable discussing his >>past with them. > > > For me as young cute hacker magazine writer, it was the > invitation / demand that a good time to do the interview > would be while "working out" with him in the hotel gym. > No other time would work. I declined... > > - John > > When I was much younger, there was a certain notorious local theater director who had a penchant for grabbing your ass when you weren't looking, and asking you to come over to his place to "read Shakespeare". How he managed not to get a busted nose I'm not quite sure, but I managed to dodge his attentions, without losing any interest in literature, either. What I said in my other message still goes, in any case. jbdigriz From geneb at deltasoft.com Thu Apr 4 12:37:15 2002 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:03 2005 Subject: CP/M and Imsai In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > > >http://www.retroarchive.org/cpm/archive/unofficial/ > > > > > Da place! > > > > Isn't > > > > http://www.gaby.de/cpm/index.html > > > > more like the official unofficial web site ? > > Sorry. I had no idea. I've had a "favorite" set to retroarchive > for years. I'll have to change it. > I made a quick mirror of it a couple of years ago when it looked like it might vanish. Since Gaby is doing such a good job, I necer saw fit to keep the mirror at retroarchive.org updated. g. -- "I'm not crazy, I'm plausibly off-nominal!" http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. From at258 at osfn.org Thu Apr 4 11:21:08 2002 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:03 2005 Subject: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New" PDP-8)) In-Reply-To: <3CAC70E0.4070503@internet1.net> Message-ID: American National Coarse. Whitworth is always coarse as I recall. Its fine companion would, I think, be BSF - British Standard Fine. Tony can probably confirm this. On Thu, 4 Apr 2002, Chad Fernandez wrote: > What is ANC? > > Chad Fernandez > Michigan, USA > > Merle K. Peirce wrote: > > BA is British Association. I think 2BA and 4BA are the most common sizes > > we might see. UNC is Unified Coarse which is almost, but not quite, the > > same as ANC. BA is not Whitworth. > > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From dquebbeman at acm.org Thu Apr 4 11:25:13 2002 From: dquebbeman at acm.org (Douglas H. Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:03 2005 Subject: "Re: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New" PDP-8))" Message-ID: <000701c1dbfd$aeba5360$e401a8c0@tegjeff.com> > I'm just crazy enough! And if that doesn't scare you... I'll > beat you with this airline pillow! "Nooooooooooobody expects the Spanish Inquisition! Our chief weapons are fear, torture, and a ruthless and fanatical devotion to the Pope... And now.... bring out, the cushy airline pillow!" ROFL! -Douglas Hurst Quebbeman (DougQ at ixnayamspayIgLou.com) [Call me "Doug"] Surgically excise the pig-latin from my e-mail address in order to reply "The large print giveth, and the small print taketh away." -Tom Waits From stanb at dial.pipex.com Wed Apr 3 14:32:10 2002 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:03 2005 Subject: Computers Manufactured in 1986^H^H56 In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 03 Apr 2002 13:14:29 MDT." <3CAB5495.4010209@texoma.net> Message-ID: <200204032032.VAA26046@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, "James L. Rice" said; > Just out of curiosity, what was available in 1954? I probably coulfdn't > afford the power and a/c for all of the vacuum tubes. The Ferranti Mercury for one. Ferranti were experimenting with germanium transistors in computer circuits around that time - or possible a year or two later. Research that led to the Atlas, the fastest computer of its era... -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From stanb at dial.pipex.com Wed Apr 3 14:17:21 2002 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:03 2005 Subject: Computers Manufactured in 1986^H^H56 In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 03 Apr 2002 12:04:38 PDT." <3CAB5246.2E6CCFA5@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <200204032017.VAA25767@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, Ben Franchuk said: > Stan Barr wrote: > All of a sudden I feel _very_ old ;-( There were no working electronic > > computers when I was born...even Collosus was still a few months from > > completion.... > > Well you could go after the mechanical ones :) Finding one here in the UK would be difficult! We have a very nice string (wire, actually..) and pulley tidal computer here in Liverpool. It was computing tide table for countries all round the world until replaced by an IBM 1130. I remember dismantling a bomb-sight computer for parts in about 1958/9... -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Thu Apr 4 00:38:03 2002 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (Allison) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:03 2005 Subject: CP/M and Imsai Message-ID: <000a01c1dba3$46d4fc00$3a7b7b7b@ajp> >I made a quick mirror of it a couple of years ago when it looked like it >might vanish. Since Gaby is doing such a good job, I necer saw fit to >keep the mirror at retroarchive.org updated. Tim was kind enough at that time to send me his master for that site on Cdrom... faster than DSL. ;) Gaby is doing a great job. Allison From doc at mdrconsult.com Thu Apr 4 12:21:39 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:03 2005 Subject: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New"" In-Reply-To: <005301c1dbf4$52552720$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: On Thu, 4 Apr 2002, John Allain wrote: > While we're on flashlights I really should rave again > for white LED ones. My favorite can cast a 150 > degree solid pyramid of pure white light, absent of > any filament artifacts, for 10 hours off one 9v battery. > If you turn it down 1 notch, you get 100 hours life. > These things are incredible. They _are_ incredible. And since we're on the "Stupid Laws and Legislators" kick this week, here's another one. I can't verify it, though. One of Austin's City Councilmen wanted to draft an ordinance against carrying the LED flashlights, as they could be used as a "stunner" in robberies, rapes, etc. The word I got, from a stenographer, was that he was temporarily blinded by one. The one he had in his own hand, that is. He was looking at it in the store, pointed it at his face, and, yes, you guessed it, pushed the button. What a maroon. These are the dolts who get to decide what I can and cannot do. Doc From foo at siconic.com Thu Apr 4 04:22:30 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:03 2005 Subject: "When programming is outlawed, only outlaws will program"" In-Reply-To: <3CAC7907.1000003@dragonsweb.org> Message-ID: On Thu, 4 Apr 2002, James B. DiGriz wrote: > I don't know John, but I think Doug covered this one pretty well > already. He's an ex-con. In our culture, even just being accused of a > crime is a big sign plastered to your back, saying, justly or not, "I am > a loser." If you maintain your innocence, or unrepentence, or even just > your worth as a human being, you can also very easily wave that sign in > people's faces, if you aren't very careful. Not saying that it isn't > worthwhile. Just that there's a stigma there, one which most people fear > is contagious, and may well be in some cases. Which is not an accident, > nor benign, but we are off-topic enough here, so I won't go into that. One's impression of John Draper has nothing at all to do with this. It's more of his creepy propensity to hit on anything with two legs (generally) within eyesight. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From doc at mdrconsult.com Thu Apr 4 12:27:26 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:03 2005 Subject: OT: Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 4 Apr 2002, Feldman, Robert wrote: > One more reason to stick to classic hardware/software: > > http://www.msnbc.com/news/732958.asp?0dm=C18MT&cp1=1#BODY > > "A California company has quietly attached its software to millions of > downloads of the popular Kazaa file-trading program and plans to remotely > turn on people's PCs, welding them into a new network of its own." Didn't Juno start installing a distributed processing client with their free dial-up a long time ago? Doc From bpope at wordstock.com Thu Apr 4 12:34:57 2002 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:03 2005 Subject: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New"" In-Reply-To: from "Doc" at Apr 4, 02 12:21:39 pm Message-ID: <200204041834.NAA26785@wordstock.com> And thusly Doc spake: > > > They _are_ incredible. And since we're on the "Stupid Laws and > Legislators" kick this week, here's another one. I can't verify it, > though. > One of Austin's City Councilmen wanted to draft an ordinance against > carrying the LED flashlights, as they could be used as a "stunner" in > robberies, rapes, etc. The word I got, from a stenographer, was that he > was temporarily blinded by one. The one he had in his own hand, that > is. He was looking at it in the store, pointed it at his face, and, > yes, you guessed it, pushed the button. > What a maroon. These are the dolts who get to decide what I can and > cannot do. > Now see.. this is what is supposed to *remove* these people from the gene pool!!!!!!!! At least the Darwin awards do.... :> Cheers, Bryan From doc at mdrconsult.com Thu Apr 4 12:35:21 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:03 2005 Subject: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New" PDP-8)) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 4 Apr 2002, Merle K. Peirce wrote: > American National Coarse. Whitworth is always coarse as I recall. Its > fine companion would, I think, be BSF - British Standard Fine. Tony can > probably confirm this. Almost on-topic, except it had zero computing technology -- I rode a '69 Triumph T100C (single-carb 500cc twin) for several years that had a combination of metric, SAE, and Whitworth fasteners. IIRC, all the body parts were metric, the external engine components - covers, jets, etc - were SAE, and the engine internals were Whitworth. I may have that swapped around. I dunno if Whitworth was always _coarse_, but it was always _irritating_! Doc From jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org Thu Apr 4 12:40:34 2002 From: jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org (James B. DiGriz) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:03 2005 Subject: Computers Manufactured in 1986^H^H56 References: <200204032032.VAA26046@citadel.metropolis.local> Message-ID: <3CAC9E22.9060105@dragonsweb.org> Stan Barr wrote: > Hi, > > "James L. Rice" said; > > >>Just out of curiosity, what was available in 1954? I probably coulfdn't >>afford the power and a/c for all of the vacuum tubes. > > > The Ferranti Mercury for one. > > Ferranti were experimenting with germanium transistors in computer > circuits around that time - or possible a year or two later. > Research that led to the Atlas, the fastest computer of its era... One year later, 1955, you have the TRIDAC, an analog aeronatical simulator that is claimed to be the first computer to use transistors. Did Ferranti have anything to do with that project? There's only sketchy information on the web about it that I could find with google. jbdigriz From dquebbeman at acm.org Thu Apr 4 12:47:40 2002 From: dquebbeman at acm.org (Douglas H. Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:03 2005 Subject: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New""" Message-ID: <000f01c1dc09$33412bd0$e401a8c0@tegjeff.com> > > While we're on flashlights I really should rave again > > for white LED ones. My favorite can cast a 150 > > degree solid pyramid of pure white light, absent of > > any filament artifacts, for 10 hours off one 9v battery. > > If you turn it down 1 notch, you get 100 hours life. > > These things are incredible. > > They _are_ incredible. And since we're on the "Stupid Laws and > Legislators" kick this week, here's another one. I can't verify it, > though. One of Austin's City Councilmen wanted to draft an > ordinance against carrying the LED flashlights, as they could > be used as a "stunner" in robberies, rapes, etc. The word I got, > from a stenographer, was that he was temporarily blinded by one. > The one he had in his own hand, that is. He was looking at it in > the store, pointed it at his face, and, yes, you guessed it, > pushed the button. What a maroon. These are the dolts who get > to decide what I can and cannot do. An officeholder elected by your neighbors... The tyranny of kings is nothing compared to the tyranny of the majority... -Douglas Hurst Quebbeman (DougQ at ixnayamspayIgLou.com) [Call me "Doug"] Surgically excise the pig-latin from my e-mail address in order to reply "The large print giveth, and the small print taketh away." -Tom Waits From bill_mcdermith at yahoo.com Thu Apr 4 12:53:27 2002 From: bill_mcdermith at yahoo.com (Bill McDermith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:03 2005 Subject: Computers Manufactured in 1986^H^H56 References: <200204032032.VAA26046@citadel.metropolis.local> <3CAC9E22.9060105@dragonsweb.org> Message-ID: <00cf01c1dc0a$02f4b5e0$9101a8c0@mn> ----- Original Message ----- From: "James B. DiGriz" To: Sent: Thursday, April 04, 2002 11:40 AM Subject: Re: Computers Manufactured in 1986^H^H56 > Stan Barr wrote: > > Hi, > > > > "James L. Rice" said; > > > > > >>Just out of curiosity, what was available in 1954? I probably coulfdn't > >>afford the power and a/c for all of the vacuum tubes. > > > > > > The Ferranti Mercury for one. > > ...snip...snip...snip... Why I was speculating about the IBM 650... According to http://members.iinet.net.au/~dgreen/timeline.html: Year System Manufacturer Total Average Installations Cost per in the US System $ 1954 MAGNEFILE B Electronics Corp. of America 1 20,000 JOHNNIAC The Rand Corporation 1 DYSEAC US Dept of Commerce 1 ALWAC II Alwac Computer Division, Hawthorne 2 50,000 CIRCLE Hogan Laboratories Inc. 2 80,000 MODAC 5014 Airborne Instruments Laboratory 1 85,000 MODAC 404 Airborne Instruments Laboratory 1 100,000 BENDIX D12 Bendix n.a. 55,000 BURROUGHS 204, Burroughs 112 200,000 & 205 IBM 650 RAMAC IBM 1500 182,000 LGP 30 General Precision 462 49,500 (Librascope Division) 1 WISC Univ. of Wisconsin 1 From jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org Thu Apr 4 13:00:26 2002 From: jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org (James B. DiGriz) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:03 2005 Subject: "When programming is outlawed, only outlaws will program"" References: Message-ID: <3CACA2CA.2050709@dragonsweb.org> Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Thu, 4 Apr 2002, James B. DiGriz wrote: > > >>I don't know John, but I think Doug covered this one pretty well >>already. He's an ex-con. In our culture, even just being accused of a >>crime is a big sign plastered to your back, saying, justly or not, "I am >>a loser." If you maintain your innocence, or unrepentence, or even just >>your worth as a human being, you can also very easily wave that sign in >>people's faces, if you aren't very careful. Not saying that it isn't >>worthwhile. Just that there's a stigma there, one which most people fear >>is contagious, and may well be in some cases. Which is not an accident, >>nor benign, but we are off-topic enough here, so I won't go into that. > > > One's impression of John Draper has nothing at all to do with this. It's > more of his creepy propensity to hit on anything with two legs (generally) > within eyesight. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > > Didn't know, Sellam. I have followed the "Cap'n Crunch" legend over the years, but nothing I'd read indicated anything like that. If it's going to be a topic of discussion, accurate information is better than what could be confused with malicious gossip or worse, so I thank you for providing the facts, and I think we are all quite adequately informed at this point. jbdigriz From hhacker at ev1.net Thu Apr 4 13:23:34 2002 From: hhacker at ev1.net (William R. Buckley) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:03 2005 Subject: "When programming is outlawed, only outlaws will program"" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >One's impression of John Draper has nothing at all to do with this. It's >more of his creepy propensity to hit on anything with two legs (generally) >within eyesight. > >Sellam Ismail Interestingly enough, I saw none of this behavior at the Hackers Conference. Still, I have heard rumors of John's associations with WOZ, that WOZ used to ride Johns back (like a child riding horsey). Ah well, genius often is accompanied by some kind of bizarre behaviour. Mine is collecting old mainframes. William R. Buckley, Director Emeritus International Core Wars Society From aek at spies.com Thu Apr 4 13:18:59 2002 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:03 2005 Subject: DSD-440 manual needed Message-ID: <200204041918.LAA12564@spies.com> > I really need a copy of the manual for a Data Systems Design DSD-440 I scanned it yesterday. It should be up at www.spies.com/aek/pdf/dsd later today. I'm interested in finding other DSD product manuals to add to the archive, also. I should have the Multibus disc/tape manual somewhere. From donm at cts.com Thu Apr 4 13:40:51 2002 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:03 2005 Subject: The Future End of Classic Computing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 4 Apr 2002, Chris wrote: > >To go back to the hammer for a moment, if I go out and buy a hammer and > >bash somebody's head in with it, then I am guilty of murder. The company > >that made the hammer, and the shop that sold it to me, are not. And > >that's how it should be. > > Scary thing is... here in the US, it doesn't seem to work that logically. > People have been sueing gun manufacturers off and on because they made > the gun that was used to kill someone. > > I don't know if anyone has WON a suit, but I do know the suits have been > filed (and win or loose, you are costing the gun maker needless legal > troubles). > > Sueing people has become so much the norm here... that the government has > had to step in and offer insurance backing for the companies cleaning up > the world trade center... because the companies know ALREADY that there > will be lawsuits when they are done, and without insurance, they know > they will be sued into bankruptcy. AND, since it is such a known fact > that they will be sued... no insurance company was willing to insure > them, which meant they weren't willing to do the work... so the > government had to step in and offer backing. > > F-ing scary! > > Remember, this is the country that awarded 3 million dollars to a lady > because she put her hot coffee in her lap, and then spilled it... and was > able to sue McDonalds because the coffee was too hot and it burned her > (yes, there is more to that story, but the fact that she was even able to > get to trial is just f-ed up... where is the personal responsibility in > this country?!?) > > -chris > > The trial lawyers, in cahoots with their cohorts in the Congress, have pretty well eliminated it with the `deep pocket' approach in lawsuits, and class action suits that are `opt out' rather than `opt in' as they ought to be. It is all part of a very successful program - to make lawyers rich(er) - at the expense of everyone else. - don From edick at idcomm.com Thu Apr 4 13:36:45 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:03 2005 Subject: Amish Virus References: <3.0.6.32.20020404070643.0081f6e0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3CAC791F.6F261F1F@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <004901c1dc10$0e57b120$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> You guys have too much free time ... and the grammar and syntax in this thing are all screwed up. "Thou" requires "hast" rather than "have." Thine = yours. Thy = your. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ben Franchuk" To: Sent: Thursday, April 04, 2002 9:02 AM Subject: Re: Amish Virus > Joe wrote: > > > > > > AMISH VIRUS: > > > > Thou have just received the Amish Virus. > > Since we do not have electricity nor computers, > > thou art on the honor system. Please delete all > > of thine files. > > > > Thank thee. > > Thou have no Stamp, returning to thy sender. > > From tom at sba.miami.edu Thu Apr 4 14:04:22 2002 From: tom at sba.miami.edu (Tom Leffingwell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:03 2005 Subject: CD-ROM on RT-11? In-Reply-To: <3CAC6725.849C9ABC@compsys.to> Message-ID: I think what I'll do at this point is try to make an image with exchange of v5.03 with my program and all, and copy as well as copy/boot it to a scsi disk on the vax, and then move it to the PDP. Assuming I get far enough to get that working, I'd then experiment with getting it on the CD. I did end up coming across a Viking/QDT SCSI controller, but it doesn't have bootstrap, and I don't have a BDV11, nor do I have room for one. I may buy a CQD-200, as they are a lot cheaper than the the CQD-220. I'd be willing to trade the Viking if anyone wants to swap. -Tom On Thu, 4 Apr 2002, Jerome H. Fine wrote: > Since I have used a CD burner for only a month, I was limited to > the experience of using only the RT-11 Freeware CD from Tim > Shoppa. > > Also, since I had only an IDE CDROM drive on a PC, my experience > using the CD was only under E11 under Windows 95 and Windows 98. > > I did try and connect a SCSI CDROM drive to a Qbus CQD 220/TM > on a real PDP-11, but was not able to get it to work. > > More recently, I think I have been able to copy a file which had been > tested to see if it could be used to successfully boot RT-11 (under E11 > under Windows 98). I copied that file to a CD and was able to "View" > all of the blocks on the CD in their correct locations on the CD using > Nero Burning, but I was still not able to boot RT-11 from the CD. > > One key aspect to realize is that RT-11 knows only about blocks > that are 512 bytes. Since a CD has a 2048 byte sector, that problem > must be overcome, but is not the only problem. Fortunately, a CD > is a READ ONLY media, so problems associated with writes > don't ever arise. One problem that RT-11 does not have is that > the drive media is not required to be writable, although there will > sometimes be SWAP errors after a program exits - which can be > avoided by using the command > SET EXIT NOSWAP > > All I am saying is that a CDROM drive is not a supported drive under > RT-11. And while I am sure that it is possible to write a file which is a > bootable image to a CD, the correct combination of hardware is not > well specified in my mind. If you are actually able to boot RT-11 from > a CD, it would be appreciated if you would tell us the specific hardware > components which you used along with the software version of RT-11. > > One aspect to note for V5.03 of RT-11 is that you may be able to read > a non-zero partition, however, the standard DEC distributed MSCP > device driver is UNABLE to boot from a non-zero partition. So if > SET DU1 UNIT=0,PART=1 > COPY/BOOT DU1:RT11XM.SYS DU1: > are used with V5.03 of RT-11, it is impossible to boot from DU1: > using the DEC version of the MSCP device driver. This is not a > problem with V5.06 of RT-11, so obviously it is a software bug. > > > I did finally manage to get my RX02's copied to a VMS machine. The guy > > that was helping me (who had the vax/vms machine) was out of town for > > awhile. Anyway, we copied an image of a bootable floppy to the VMS > > machine, and back to a new floppy, which booted fine with no need to > > copy/boot it (since the imagine was already that way). We also used VMS > > exchange to may .dsk files. I need to read up a little more on exchange, > > but I was thinking if I can work with the .dsk imagines of the ftpable > > RT-11 5.03, I should be copy in my program and then copy that to a SCSI > > disk, make sure its bootable, and then make an image of it. The .dsk > > files seem to be little file on file systems as opposed to just making an > > image. > > Using Exchange under VMS had certain annoying limitations the last time I > used it. While it was possible to MOUNT the file or the drive as "/FOREIGN", > there was no variable to specify the partition. Thus the default was ONLY > partition zero. It was possible to circumvent this problem with a hard drive > that is also compatible with PDP-11 hardware (the only one I know of > is a SCSI hard drive or a removable media such as Magneto Optical), > but it was not simple. > > One problem you may have with the downloaded DEC distribution > of V5.03 of RT-11 is that the boot block zero assumes an RL02 > disk drive. If you copy it to an MSCP media, then you must > COPY/BOOT DU0:RT11XM.SYS DU0: > if you are going to do a hardware boot. However, if you can > first boot from the floppy under V5.03 of RT-11 (which also > poses a problem - but not too difficult), then you can do a > soft boot via the command: > BOOT DU0:RT11XM > after which you can then set up the boot blocks via > COPY/BOOT DU0:RT11XM.SYS DU0: > > Some information helpful to understand the boot process under RT-11. > (a) In a hardware boot, the primary program in the EPROM is used > to read BLOCK ZERO on the specified disk drive media. > (b) The secondary boot program in BLOCK ZERO is usually > read into memory locations starting at address zero and normally > the first word MUST be the NOP instruction. > (c) In RT-11, the secondary boot program then reads the tertiary > boot program in blocks 2,3,4,5 of the disk drive media and those > 4 blocks are sufficient to read the specified monitor and device > driver files. > > Sincerely yours, > > Jerome Fine > -- > If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail > address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk > e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be > obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the > 'at' with the four digits of the current year. > > > From sipke at wxs.nl Thu Apr 4 13:53:58 2002 From: sipke at wxs.nl (Sipke de Wal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:03 2005 Subject: Core Memory Interfacing? References: <20020403113354.I56922-100000@outpost.timeguy.com> Message-ID: <009401c1dc16$36fb13a0$030101ac@boll.casema.net> Core memory has another complication ........ Reading a core memoryline from the matrix means you also have to write the line back because reading from core memory is a data destructive operation. This means that any read cycle is in fact a read+write memory cycle. This has also concequences for the total speed of subsequent read operations (like a program running from core). The read access may be reasonably fast but the next read cycle can only start after the internal write-cycle has completed................ A kind of page interleave may solve this problem but: Obviously you'll have to cook up all the extra logic to execute all this in hardware .............. Regards, Sipke de Wal --------------------------------------------------------- http://xgistor.ath.cx --------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Richman To: Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2002 7:41 PM Subject: Core Memory Interfacing? > Right off, let me say that I know next to nothing about the realities of > using core memory. I only know that it looks like pretty cool stuff to > play with. Would I be completely off my tree to try to build a core > memory interface from scratch, assuming I had a pre-strung core frame with > all the cores and wires intact? When I say "interface", I mean basically > something that will let me talk to the core from a PC or from my > recently-completed Mark-8 using TTL or CMOS levels. If I have a 64x64 > frame, would I just need something on the order of 256 driver transistors > (one to drive each of the X and Y wires in either direction) plus some > kind of op-amp or comparator circuit to monitor the sense wire (is there > just one of these per frame?) and determine whether or not a bit has > flipped during a read pulse? Or are there all sorts of ghosts and goblins > lurking in core memory that I don't want to confront? > > > From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Thu Apr 4 14:30:23 2002 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:03 2005 Subject: Amish Virus Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA615014677FA@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> > From: Richard Erlacher > > You guys have too much free time ... and the grammar and syntax in this > thing > are all screwed up. "Thou" requires "hast" rather than "have." Thine = > yours. Thy = your. > > Dick > > > Joe wrote: > > > > > > > > > AMISH VIRUS: > > > > > > Thou have just received the Amish Virus. > > > Since we do not have electricity nor computers, > > > thou art on the honor system. Please delete all > > > of thine files. > > > > > > Thank thee. > So, it should read... "... Thou hast just received the Amish Virus. Since we do not have electricity nor computers, thou art on the honor system. Please delete all of thy files. Thank thee. --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 Mac OS X 10.1.2 - Darwin Kernel Version 5.2: Fri Dec 7 21:39:35 PST 2001 Running since 01/22/2002 without a crash From ccraft at springsips.com Thu Apr 4 14:35:47 2002 From: ccraft at springsips.com (Chris Craft) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:03 2005 Subject: WAY OT: Archaic english grammar (Was: Re: Amish Virus) In-Reply-To: <004901c1dc10$0e57b120$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20020404070643.0081f6e0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> <3CAC791F.6F261F1F@jetnet.ab.ca> <004901c1dc10$0e57b120$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <20020404203532.0704961094@mamacass.springsips.com> I thank thee for pointing out their errors. :) (I was tempted to do so myself, however thou hast beaten me to the punch!) Sincerely thine, Chris, Retro(Computing|Linguistic) Nut (one of whose pet peeves happens to be the misuse of any language. :) On Thursday 04 April 2002 12:36, you wrote: > You guys have too much free time ... and the grammar and syntax in this > thing are all screwed up. "Thou" requires "hast" rather than "have." > Thine = yours. Thy = your. > > Dick > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ben Franchuk" > To: > Sent: Thursday, April 04, 2002 9:02 AM > Subject: Re: Amish Virus > > > Joe wrote: > > > AMISH VIRUS: > > > > > > Thou have just received the Amish Virus. > > > Since we do not have electricity nor computers, > > > thou art on the honor system. Please delete all > > > of thine files. > > > > > > Thank thee. > > > > Thou have no Stamp, returning to thy sender. From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Apr 4 14:37:20 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:03 2005 Subject: CD-ROM on RT-11? In-Reply-To: References: <3CAC6725.849C9ABC@compsys.to> Message-ID: > I think what I'll do at this point is try to make an image with >exchange of v5.03 with my program and all, and copy as well as copy/boot >it to a scsi disk on the vax, and then move it to the PDP. Assuming I get >far enough to get that working, I'd then experiment with getting it on the >CD. I did end up coming across a Viking/QDT SCSI controller, but it >doesn't have bootstrap, and I don't have a BDV11, nor do I have room for >one. I may buy a CQD-200, as they are a lot cheaper than the the CQD-220. >I'd be willing to trade the Viking if anyone wants to swap. While not as fast as the CMD controllers the Viking/QDT is a good solid controller. What version are the ROMs on it? You need a fairly new version to support CD-ROMs. This is the controller that I use on my PDP-11/73 (in fact I just booted off of CD-ROM this morning). I know for a fact that it will talk to a DEC RRD-42 CD-ROM (which I like since it's a caddy drive). Before I got the Quad-Hieght /73, which has onboard bootstrap and console port) I had a dual-height /73 without the onboard bootstrap. At that point I had a WQESD ESDI controller in the system whose only purpose was booting the system and a DLV11J for the console port. I've still got the DLV11J in there as well as a RQDX3 in the system that's only there to drive the RX50 floppies. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From mcguire at neurotica.com Thu Apr 4 14:39:01 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:03 2005 Subject: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New"" In-Reply-To: Re: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New"" (John Allain) References: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA615014677F2@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> <005301c1dbf4$52552720$21fe54a6@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <15532.47589.775524.606592@phaduka.neurotica.com> On April 4, John Allain wrote: > While we're on flashlights I really should rave again > for white LED ones. My favorite can cast a 150 > degree solid pyramid of pure white light, absent of > any filament artifacts, for 10 hours off one 9v battery. > If you turn it down 1 notch, you get 100 hours life. > These things are incredible. I second this. I now use them exclusively, while my trusty Maglite sits in a drawer. I use Photon lights, http://www.photon.com, and I like them a *lot*. If you like to use flashlights to peer into machines and such, and like the idea of having a tiny but astoundingly bright one to carry with you everywhere along with your wallet or house keys, this is the way to go. (not an employee, just a satisfied customer, yadda yadda) -Dave -- Dave McGuire "I thought it would go quickly, St. Petersburg, FL that rubberized bottom..." -Sridhar From jbstuart at gulftel.com Thu Apr 4 14:43:02 2002 From: jbstuart at gulftel.com (John & Brenda Stuart) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:03 2005 Subject: Headstart Explorer Message-ID: <003701c1dc19$50793b60$0201a8c0@John> Hi Mr. Clausen, I have been seeking help on my Headstart Explorer XT computer made by Vendex. I cannot seem to restore it after formating the 40 MB hard disk, Automagic. I have all the original disks that came with it when I bought it new in 1990. The Master Disk says to put it in the A drive and then turn on the computer. I have done this several times and it does not seem to work. I have the other disks, DOS System Disk #1, Programs Disk #2, and Disk 3. I would appreciate any assistance you may give me. Thanks, John From jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org Thu Apr 4 14:59:30 2002 From: jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org (James B. DiGriz) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:03 2005 Subject: Computers Manufactured in 1986^H^H56 References: <200204032032.VAA26046@citadel.metropolis.local> <3CAC9E22.9060105@dragonsweb.org> <00cf01c1dc0a$02f4b5e0$9101a8c0@mn> Message-ID: <3CACBEB2.5060208@dragonsweb.org> Bill McDermith wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "James B. DiGriz" > To: > Sent: Thursday, April 04, 2002 11:40 AM > Subject: Re: Computers Manufactured in 1986^H^H56 > > > >>Stan Barr wrote: >> >>>Hi, >>> >>>"James L. Rice" said; >>> >>> >>> >>>>Just out of curiosity, what was available in 1954? I probably coulfdn't >>>>afford the power and a/c for all of the vacuum tubes. >>> >>> >>>The Ferranti Mercury for one. >>> >> > ...snip...snip...snip... > > Why I was speculating about the IBM 650... > > According to http://members.iinet.net.au/~dgreen/timeline.html: > > Year System Manufacturer Total Average > Installations Cost per > in the US System $ > > 1954 MAGNEFILE B Electronics Corp. of America > 1 20,000 > JOHNNIAC The Rand Corporation 1 > DYSEAC US Dept of Commerce 1 > ALWAC II Alwac Computer Division, Hawthorne 2 50,000 > CIRCLE Hogan Laboratories Inc. 2 80,000 > MODAC 5014 Airborne Instruments Laboratory 1 85,000 > MODAC 404 Airborne Instruments Laboratory 1 100,000 > BENDIX D12 Bendix n.a. 55,000 > BURROUGHS 204, Burroughs 112 200,000 > & 205 > IBM 650 RAMAC IBM 1500 182,000 > LGP 30 General Precision 462 49,500 > (Librascope Division) > 1 > WISC Univ. of Wisconsin 1 > > > I'm not sure if you're replying to me here, but I did find a picture of the TRIDAC. It occupied a couple of buildings and included it's own generating plant. Reminds me of the old satellite tracking station in Rosman, NC., except smaller. Haven't figured out what all the pumps and "synthetic gimbals" are for, but even if the electronics were transistorized, it could pull some amps. Enough for several dozen 650's, probably. http://www.science.uva.nl/faculteit/museum/biganalog.html jbdigriz From lgwalker at mts.net Thu Apr 4 15:43:51 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:03 2005 Subject: GEM OS was: CP/M and Imsai In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3CAC74B7.30513.4ED524@localhost> I wasn't able to find the Gem files on gaby however. I hope you intend on keeping them on the retroactive site. The Atari subdirectory is empty. Was it your intention to fill it as you have with the Heath one ? I've asked this before, but how close is the Commodore GEOS to the Gem one ? The desktop at least is virtually identical. Does it have an underlying system greatly different from TOS and AES(?) ? Lawrence > > > > >http://www.retroarchive.org/cpm/archive/unofficial/ > > > > > > > Da place! > > > > > > Isn't > > > > > > http://www.gaby.de/cpm/index.html > > > > > > more like the official unofficial web site ? > > > > Sorry. I had no idea. I've had a "favorite" set to retroarchive > > for years. I'll have to change it. > > > I made a quick mirror of it a couple of years ago when it looked like it > might vanish. Since Gaby is doing such a good job, I necer saw fit to > keep the mirror at retroarchive.org updated. > > g. > > -- > "I'm not crazy, I'm plausibly off-nominal!" > http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. > > lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From tom at sba.miami.edu Thu Apr 4 15:48:31 2002 From: tom at sba.miami.edu (Tom Leffingwell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:03 2005 Subject: CD-ROM on RT-11? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 4 Apr 2002, Zane H. Healy wrote: > While not as fast as the CMD controllers the Viking/QDT is a good solid > controller. What version are the ROMs on it? You need a fairly new > version to support CD-ROMs. This is the controller that I use on my > PDP-11/73 (in fact I just booted off of CD-ROM this morning). I know for a > fact that it will talk to a DEC RRD-42 CD-ROM (which I like since it's a > caddy drive). My Viking/QDT has a sticker that says Q/B A3.2 on what I believe to be the ROM. I think the 200 CMD controller is consierably lower performance than the 220, but then again, when replacing an RX02, performance really isn't an issue. Hopefully the CMD controller will support the CD-ROM. I have an RRD42 that I could temporarily swipe from another system for testing. I wish I had a way to boot with the Viking, although I guess I could type in the bootstrap, but that's annoying. Also, I'm not sure my 18-bit backplane will work with the Viking. I do have rev E2 or something of the M8186 11/23 board, which as far as I know supports 22-bit addressing. If the Viking will work in an 18-bit setup, its probably worth trying to manually bootstrap it for the purposes of testing different CD-ROMs. > Before I got the Quad-Hieght /73, which has onboard bootstrap and console > port) I had a dual-height /73 without the onboard bootstrap. At that point > I had a WQESD ESDI controller in the system whose only purpose was booting > the system and a DLV11J for the console port. I've still got the DLV11J in > there as well as a RQDX3 in the system that's only there to drive the RX50 > floppies. > > Zane > > -- > | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | > | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | > | | Classic Computer Collector | > +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ > | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | > | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | > | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | > From geneb at deltasoft.com Thu Apr 4 15:53:18 2002 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:03 2005 Subject: GEM OS was: CP/M and Imsai In-Reply-To: <3CAC74B7.30513.4ED524@localhost> Message-ID: > keeping them on the retroactive site. The Atari subdirectory is empty. Was > it your intention to fill it as you have with the Heath one ? > Oh, I'll definately be keeping the stuff on the retroarchive site. You should also check out http://www.deltasoft.com - that's where all the real GEM magic happens. The Atari stuff is barren because I don't have the time right now to do anything with it. I've go tthis F-15C on my back that eats all my time. :) > I've asked this before, but how close is the Commodore GEOS to the Gem > one ? The desktop at least is virtually identical. Does it have an underlying > system greatly different from TOS and AES(?) ? > > Lawrence GEOS and GEM are similarly functioning products built by two completely different vendors. There is no code commonality between them at all. g. From dquebbeman at acm.org Thu Apr 4 15:52:58 2002 From: dquebbeman at acm.org (Douglas H. Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:03 2005 Subject: SIMTEL 8051 Archive Stuff Redux Message-ID: <000701c1dc23$15db6370$e401a8c0@tegjeff.com> Well, A few weeks ago, I mentioned I'd archived the 8051 stuff from the SIMTEL archive. As it turns out, the QIC-80 tape they're on must have stretched, and I only wrote one set of that stuff. I thought I had it on the hard drive, but all that was left was: ML-ASM51 Metalink 8051 Macro Assembler BASIC-52 BASIC-52 source BASIC31 (BASIC52 adapted for 8031) DIS8051F 8051 disassembler DISASM51 another one 8051-FAQ.TXT what it says 00FILES yada 00README yada 8051STUF.LOG FTP directory of what was there CLOCK.ASM clock program I may have floppies with the stuff, so I'll keep looking... -dq -Douglas Hurst Quebbeman (DougQ at ixnayamspayIgLou.com) [Call me "Doug"] Surgically excise the pig-latin from my e-mail address in order to reply "The large print giveth, and the small print taketh away." -Tom Waits From edick at idcomm.com Thu Apr 4 16:26:02 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:03 2005 Subject: The Future End of Classic Computing References: Message-ID: <001b01c1dc27$b53b9260$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Without getting into the trial-lawyers thing, I'd say the issue is in how the gun makers promote, distribute, and sell their wares, rather than any other single issue. The point is that, for one example, the gun makers send enough guns into the metro Chicago area, where gun ownership is restricted, to equip every adult in the entire metro area with at least one handgun, yet they never seem to run out. It's wonderful for their sales, but the Chicago authorities have gone on record as opposing the practice. Some effort to behave reasonably, as opposed to making lots of assumptions based on gross violations of local laws, would probably be appreciated by the Chicago area authorities. I don't know that trying to make this a supply-side thing is any smarter than the same effort with respect to drugs. If having a gun on your person when apprehended in the commission of a crime were, in itself, more likely to get you a life-standing-on-your-head-in-a-16"-deep-pool-of-goat-feces-sentence than the crime itself, perhaps people would behave differently. I don't see why the GOV thinks that they should make the gun makers enforce the law. It's worth a try, though. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Maslin" To: "Classic Computers" Sent: Thursday, April 04, 2002 12:40 PM Subject: Re: The Future End of Classic Computing > > > On Thu, 4 Apr 2002, Chris wrote: > > > >To go back to the hammer for a moment, if I go out and buy a hammer and > > >bash somebody's head in with it, then I am guilty of murder. The company > > >that made the hammer, and the shop that sold it to me, are not. And > > >that's how it should be. > > > > Scary thing is... here in the US, it doesn't seem to work that logically. > > People have been sueing gun manufacturers off and on because they made > > the gun that was used to kill someone. > > > > I don't know if anyone has WON a suit, but I do know the suits have been > > filed (and win or loose, you are costing the gun maker needless legal > > troubles). > > > > Sueing people has become so much the norm here... that the government has > > had to step in and offer insurance backing for the companies cleaning up > > the world trade center... because the companies know ALREADY that there > > will be lawsuits when they are done, and without insurance, they know > > they will be sued into bankruptcy. AND, since it is such a known fact > > that they will be sued... no insurance company was willing to insure > > them, which meant they weren't willing to do the work... so the > > government had to step in and offer backing. > > > > F-ing scary! > > > > Remember, this is the country that awarded 3 million dollars to a lady > > because she put her hot coffee in her lap, and then spilled it... and was > > able to sue McDonalds because the coffee was too hot and it burned her > > (yes, there is more to that story, but the fact that she was even able to > > get to trial is just f-ed up... where is the personal responsibility in > > this country?!?) > > > > -chris > > > > > > The trial lawyers, in cahoots with their cohorts in the Congress, have > pretty well eliminated it with the `deep pocket' approach in lawsuits, > and class action suits that are `opt out' rather than `opt in' as they > ought to be. It is all part of a very successful program - to make > lawyers rich(er) - at the expense of everyone else. > > - don > > > From fernande at internet1.net Thu Apr 4 16:26:45 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:03 2005 Subject: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New""" References: <000f01c1dc09$33412bd0$e401a8c0@tegjeff.com> Message-ID: <3CACD325.8070504@internet1.net> Douglas H. Quebbeman wrote: >>They _are_ incredible. And since we're on the "Stupid Laws and >>Legislators" kick this week, here's another one. I can't verify it, >>though. One of Austin's City Councilmen wanted to draft an >>ordinance against carrying the LED flashlights, as they could >>be used as a "stunner" in robberies, rapes, etc. The word I got, >>from a stenographer, was that he was temporarily blinded by one. >>The one he had in his own hand, that is. He was looking at it in >>the store, pointed it at his face, and, yes, you guessed it, >>pushed the button. What a maroon. These are the dolts who get >>to decide what I can and cannot do. What's an LED flashlight? Do you mean one of thelaser pointers? Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From mcguire at neurotica.com Thu Apr 4 16:56:03 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:03 2005 Subject: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New""" In-Reply-To: Re: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New""" (Chad Fernandez) References: <000f01c1dc09$33412bd0$e401a8c0@tegjeff.com> <3CACD325.8070504@internet1.net> Message-ID: <15532.55811.635406.839552@phaduka.neurotica.com> On April 4, Chad Fernandez wrote: > >>They _are_ incredible. And since we're on the "Stupid Laws and > >>Legislators" kick this week, here's another one. I can't verify it, > >>though. One of Austin's City Councilmen wanted to draft an > >>ordinance against carrying the LED flashlights, as they could > >>be used as a "stunner" in robberies, rapes, etc. The word I got, > >>from a stenographer, was that he was temporarily blinded by one. > >>The one he had in his own hand, that is. He was looking at it in > >>the store, pointed it at his face, and, yes, you guessed it, > >>pushed the button. What a maroon. These are the dolts who get > >>to decide what I can and cannot do. > > What's an LED flashlight? Do you mean one of thelaser pointers? No, an LED flashlight. ;) See http://www.photonlight.com. -Dave -- Dave McGuire "I thought it would go quickly, St. Petersburg, FL that rubberized bottom..." -Sridhar From doc at mdrconsult.com Thu Apr 4 17:02:28 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:03 2005 Subject: The Future End of Classic Computing In-Reply-To: <001b01c1dc27$b53b9260$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 4 Apr 2002, Richard Erlacher wrote: > I don't know that trying to make this a supply-side thing is any smarter than > the same effort with respect to drugs. If having a gun on your person when > apprehended in the commission of a crime were, in itself, more likely to get > you a life-standing-on-your-head-in-a-16"-deep-pool-of-goat-feces-sentence > than the crime itself, perhaps people would behave differently. I don't see > why the GOV thinks that they should make the gun makers enforce the law. It's > worth a try, though. I don't know where you'd find references, but try looking at the use of sawed-off shotguns in robberies in the US. They're incredibly effective as intimidators, and were very popular in the 'teens and '20s. Federal laws were passed mandating atrocious jail time for use of sawed-offs in crimes, ***those laws were agressively enforced***, and shotguns almost disappeared as the gangster's choice. Doc From mythtech at mac.com Thu Apr 4 17:04:44 2002 From: mythtech at mac.com (Chris) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:03 2005 Subject: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New""" Message-ID: >What's an LED flashlight? Do you mean one of thelaser pointers? No, they now make flashlights that rather than using a traditional incandescent bulb, use a super bright LED instead. I have one on my keychain that is this tiny thin black plastic thing. You squeeze it, and the LED on the end lights up. It is REALLY freaking bright (bright enough, that if I shine it out a car window, I can read house numbers across the street), and is powered by two fairly standard replaceable button cell batteries. -chris From at258 at osfn.org Thu Apr 4 17:18:48 2002 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:03 2005 Subject: Computers Manufactured in 1986^H^H56 In-Reply-To: <200204032017.VAA25767@citadel.metropolis.local> Message-ID: You have the Kelvin? What a lovely surprise. On Wed, 3 Apr 2002, Stan Barr wrote: > Hi, > > Ben Franchuk said: > > Stan Barr wrote: > > All of a sudden I feel _very_ old ;-( There were no working electronic > > > computers when I was born...even Collosus was still a few months from > > > completion.... > > > > Well you could go after the mechanical ones :) > > Finding one here in the UK would be difficult! We have a very nice > string (wire, actually..) and pulley tidal computer here in Liverpool. > It was computing tide table for countries all round the world until > replaced by an IBM 1130. > > I remember dismantling a bomb-sight computer for parts in about 1958/9... > > -- > Cheers, > Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com > > The future was never like this! > > > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Apr 4 15:46:11 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:03 2005 Subject: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New" PDP-8)) In-Reply-To: <20020404020020.MTCT29105.tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> from "jpero@sympatico.ca" at Apr 3, 2 09:02:06 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1732 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020404/8ae834e2/attachment.ksh From at258 at osfn.org Thu Apr 4 17:22:34 2002 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:03 2005 Subject: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New" PDP-8)) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: That's because you had the wrong wrenches. I've always wanted to have someone ask me for a half-inch wrench and hand him a Whitworth half-inch. I think there's a set in the Rover. On Thu, 4 Apr 2002, Doc wrote: > On Thu, 4 Apr 2002, Merle K. Peirce wrote: > > > American National Coarse. Whitworth is always coarse as I recall. Its > > fine companion would, I think, be BSF - British Standard Fine. Tony can > > probably confirm this. > > Almost on-topic, except it had zero computing technology -- I rode a > '69 Triumph T100C (single-carb 500cc twin) for several years that had a > combination of metric, SAE, and Whitworth fasteners. IIRC, all the body > parts were metric, the external engine components - covers, jets, etc - > were SAE, and the engine internals were Whitworth. I may have that > swapped around. > I dunno if Whitworth was always _coarse_, but it was always > _irritating_! > > Doc > > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Apr 4 15:50:01 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:03 2005 Subject: Core Memory Interfacing? In-Reply-To: <001701c1db70$66133740$61eeffcc@Shadow> from "Douglas H. Quebbeman" at Apr 3, 2 07:33:45 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1185 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020404/79b88e50/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Apr 4 15:54:22 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:03 2005 Subject: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New" PDP-8)) In-Reply-To: from "Doc" at Apr 3, 2 07:14:23 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1257 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020404/b1b7e19d/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Apr 4 16:05:14 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:04 2005 Subject: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New" PDP-8)) In-Reply-To: <001701c1db7d$b123e880$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Apr 3, 2 07:09:02 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3146 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020404/f474fd7c/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Apr 4 16:07:47 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:04 2005 Subject: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New" PDP-8)) In-Reply-To: <3CABBDB3.4080007@internet1.net> from "Chad Fernandez" at Apr 3, 2 09:42:59 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 741 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020404/65488e00/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Apr 4 16:16:44 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:04 2005 Subject: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New" PDP-8)) In-Reply-To: <3CABBEA0.3030608@internet1.net> from "Chad Fernandez" at Apr 3, 2 09:46:56 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1844 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020404/f9ee0a84/attachment.ksh From csmith at amdocs.com Thu Apr 4 17:20:39 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:04 2005 Subject: PS/2 - E Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E01784387@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> I have a PS/2 - E. It's a little tiny 80387(?) with a 387 math coprocessor. Four PCMCIA slots, and a floppy drive. Integrated video, parallel and serial. 1.4M floppy, and unknown(right now) hard drive. Does anyone know anything about it? What can I do with it? Will OS/2 work? What interface does the hard drive use, BTW? What are my chances of getting BSD or linux to drive the PCMCIA slots? Anything else I should know about this one? Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Apr 4 17:01:17 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:04 2005 Subject: [was: RE: The Future End of Classic Computing] In-Reply-To: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA615014677F3@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> from "David Woyciesjes" at Apr 4, 2 10:48:03 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1495 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020405/30928c53/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Apr 4 17:03:57 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:04 2005 Subject: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New" PDP-8)) In-Reply-To: from "Merle K. Peirce" at Apr 4, 2 12:21:08 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 407 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020405/ee1cc380/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Apr 4 17:08:31 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:04 2005 Subject: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New" PDP-8)) In-Reply-To: from "Doc" at Apr 4, 2 12:35:21 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 954 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020405/7ff2d82c/attachment.ksh From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Thu Apr 4 17:36:04 2002 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:04 2005 Subject: GEM OS was: CP/M and Imsai In-Reply-To: <3CAC74B7.30513.4ED524@localhost> from Lawrence Walker at "Apr 4, 2 03:43:51 pm" Message-ID: <200204042336.PAA29916@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > I've asked this before, but how close is the Commodore GEOS to the Gem > one ? The desktop at least is virtually identical. I don't think it is, myself. Berkeley Softworks supposedly modeled it on the Macintosh. > Does it have an underlying > system greatly different from TOS and AES(?) ? Not knowing much about the internals of TOS ... -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Time makes more converts than reason. -- Thomas Payne ---------------------- From mcguire at neurotica.com Thu Apr 4 17:33:17 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:04 2005 Subject: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New" PDP-8)) In-Reply-To: Re: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New" PDP-8)) (Tony Duell) References: <20020404020020.MTCT29105.tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: <15532.58045.396505.469066@phaduka.neurotica.com> On April 4, Tony Duell wrote: > > I can stuff it in my front side pocket with reflector end sticking > > out. Doesn't feel uncomfortable. > > Do you guys have small pockets or something? I've carried things a lot > larger than a 2*AA maglite in my pocket. Is that a maglite in your pocket, or... -Dave -- Dave McGuire "I thought it would go quickly, St. Petersburg, FL that rubberized bottom..." -Sridhar From pcw at mesanet.com Thu Apr 4 17:50:58 2002 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:04 2005 Subject: Core Memory Interfacing? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 4 Apr 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > > > Except that every VT52 I've ever worked on used > > > semiconductor memory, not core. > > > > > > Anyway. the fact that there's no microprocessor does not mean that > > > there's no software. There are plenty of microcoded TTL designs about > > > (the VT52 is one of them IMHO) which have PROMs containing something that > > > is reasonably called firmware. > > > > Yeah, there is the old 7400 series arithmetic unit... > > The 74x181. I've used it many times. It's also used in many of the > computers that I love (like the classic PERQs and the PDP11/45). > > > > > But in my experience, most pre-micro computer > > equipment used fusible-link ROMs for truth-tables; > > a transitional item, the Processor Tech SOL's > > keyboard, is a good example of this. > > Truely microcoded TTL-based designs are not uncommon. The VT52 is > certainly one. So are some of the DECwriters IIRC (but I would have to > check the prints to be sure). DEC seemed to love microcoded designs, > actually... Hytype IIs also use a 8 bit TTL based microcoded machine (IICRC they use 74LS283 adders, 74LS170 register file chips, along with bipolar PROMS)... > > It's difficult to know just where to draw the line between true > microcoded designs and state machines with the combinatorial part of the > logic in PROMs. In fact I don't think you can really distinguish between > them. > > -tony > Peter Wallace From doc at mdrconsult.com Thu Apr 4 18:04:35 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:04 2005 Subject: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New" PDP-8)) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 4 Apr 2002, Merle K. Peirce wrote: > That's because you had the wrong wrenches. I've always wanted to have > someone ask me for a half-inch wrench and hand him a Whitworth > half-inch. I think there's a set in the Rover. I had the _right_ wrenches. A 4-inch Snap-On crescent, erm (here we go again), adjustable. Seriously, it wasn't the wrenches so much as keeping the thread patterns straight when I was rebuilding it toasted. Doc From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Thu Apr 4 18:05:25 2002 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:04 2005 Subject: CD-ROM on RT-11? References: Message-ID: <3CACEA45.B963C28F@compsys.to> >Tom Leffingwell wrote: > I think what I'll do at this point is try to make an image with > exchange of v5.03 with my program and all, and copy as well as copy/boot > it to a scsi disk on the vax, and then move it to the PDP. Assuming I get > far enough to get that working, I'd then experiment with getting it on the > CD. I did end up coming across a Viking/QDT SCSI controller, but it > doesn't have bootstrap, and I don't have a BDV11, nor do I have room for > one. I may buy a CQD-200, as they are a lot cheaper than the the CQD-220. > I'd be willing to trade the Viking if anyone wants to swap. Jerome Fine replies: Starting with a SCSI hard drive is an excellent method. Right now I can use that technique to move files between any system that I have which has a SCSI interface. Although just a bit more complicated than using a Magneto Optical drive, these days the low capacity SCSI hard drives (under 2 GBytes) are very inexpensive. Note that under VMS Exchange, you may be limited to just ONE RT-11 partition, i.e. partition zero. It was over 10 years ago when I used Exchange under VMS and the RT-11 partition default was zero. What I am curious about is how you are able to run the program DUP.SAV which is what you are doing with the command COPY/BOOT DU0:RT11XM.SYS DU0: when you are running Exchange under VMS. If you mean that you will first boot RT-11 on the PDP-11 after you have copied V5.03 of RT-11 to the SCSI hard drive, that I can understand - although be careful - since your RX02 files are for V4.00 of RT-11, you will first need to put a set of V5.03 files on an RX02 floppy and boot that. If I am mixed up about your system, please explain. Maybe Exchange under VMS allows the command COPY/BOOT DU0:RT11XM.SYS DU0: Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From jhfinepw4z at compsys.to Thu Apr 4 18:17:02 2002 From: jhfinepw4z at compsys.to (Jerome H. Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:04 2005 Subject: CD-ROM on RT-11? References: <3CAC6725.849C9ABC@compsys.to> Message-ID: <3CACECFE.5AF718DC@compsys.to> >"Zane H. Healy" wrote: > > I think what I'll do at this point is try to make an image with > >exchange of v5.03 with my program and all, and copy as well as copy/boot > >it to a scsi disk on the vax, and then move it to the PDP. Assuming I get > >far enough to get that working, I'd then experiment with getting it on the > >CD. I did end up coming across a Viking/QDT SCSI controller, but it > >doesn't have bootstrap, and I don't have a BDV11, nor do I have room for > >one. I may buy a CQD-200, as they are a lot cheaper than the the CQD-220. > >I'd be willing to trade the Viking if anyone wants to swap. > While not as fast as the CMD controllers the Viking/QDT is a good solid > controller. What version are the ROMs on it? You need a fairly new > version to support CD-ROMs. This is the controller that I use on my > PDP-11/73 (in fact I just booted off of CD-ROM this morning). I know for a > fact that it will talk to a DEC RRD-42 CD-ROM (which I like since it's a > caddy drive). Jerome Fine replies: I presume from what you are saying that the Viking/QDT does not have any boot ROMs. If so, it is one of the very few (probably the only one I know about) NON-DEC controllers or host adapters that does not have a boot ROM. Any idea if there was a DEC approved CDROM drive which did NOT use a caddy? > Before I got the Quad-Hieght /73, which has onboard bootstrap and console > port) I had a dual-height /73 without the onboard bootstrap. At that point > I had a WQESD ESDI controller in the system whose only purpose was booting > the system and a DLV11J for the console port. I've still got the DLV11J in > there as well as a RQDX3 in the system that's only there to drive the RX50 > floppies. Any idea how much an M8190-BB (quad 11/73) might cost? I have a couple, but I want to keep them for a few more years. But Tom might find this is the least expensive way to go. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year. From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Thu Apr 4 18:20:06 2002 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:04 2005 Subject: Core Memory Interfacing? Message-ID: <00e501c1dc37$d8de3dc0$d4ee9a8d@ajp166> From: Peter C. Wallace > >Hytype IIs also use a 8 bit TTL based microcoded machine (IICRC they use >74LS283 adders, 74LS170 register file chips, along with bipolar PROMS)... > I have a few of those boards... Wich I had the correct prints for the board numbers I do have. Could be fun to bend them into a general purpose 8bitter. Allison From aek at spies.com Thu Apr 4 18:56:13 2002 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:04 2005 Subject: Harris Model 8 CPU Message-ID: <200204050056.QAA13041@spies.com> Does anyone have any docs on the Harris 24 bit line (or the Datacraft 6024?) Considering there are still H-series machines in use, I've not been able to turn up much at all on them. From rschaefe at gcfn.org Thu Apr 4 19:00:02 2002 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:04 2005 Subject: PS/2 - E References: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E01784387@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> Message-ID: <007e01c1dc3d$8cd0e260$b5469280@y5f3q8> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher Smith" To: "Classiccmp (E-mail)" Sent: Thursday, April 04, 2002 06:20 PM Subject: PS/2 - E > I have a PS/2 - E. It's a little tiny 80387(?) with a 387 math > coprocessor. Four PCMCIA slots, and a floppy drive. Integrated > video, parallel and serial. 1.4M floppy, and unknown(right now) > hard drive. It's a neat little toy. I came across the PCMCIA controller card for one a few weeks ago and ended up finding more about the -e than the card itself. IIRC the model number is 9533-- put that in the search and you should end up with some good hits. I just found http://www.tavi.co.uk/ps2pages/ohland/9533.html in an old msg to myself. If it's the one I'm thinking of, it's a good read. > > Does anyone know anything about it? > > What can I do with it? Will OS/2 work? What interface does the > hard drive use, BTW? What are my chances of getting BSD or linux > to drive the PCMCIA slots? Anything else I should know about this > one? NT... ^_^ AFAIK the slots are the standard Intel 82365 and should be seen just fine. I have not tried this, as I haven't had the time to find a case that the card will fit into, it seems to be just a hair wider than normal. That and the eject mech. make for a tight fit. I'm looking for one if anyone has a spare. I don't need the PCMCIA controller. > > Chris Bob > > Christopher Smith, Perl Developer > Amdocs - Champaign, IL > > /usr/bin/perl -e ' > print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); > ' > From tom at sba.miami.edu Thu Apr 4 19:44:04 2002 From: tom at sba.miami.edu (Tom Leffingwell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:04 2005 Subject: CD-ROM on RT-11? In-Reply-To: <3CACEA45.B963C28F@compsys.to> Message-ID: I plan to do the copy/boot in exchange: EXCHANGE> help copy/boot COPY /BOOT /BOOT[=nn] This qualifier copies bootstrap information from a monitor file to blocks 0 and 2 through 5 of an RT-11 volume, permitting you to use that volume as a system volume. The COPY/BOOT operation does not create any files on the volume, it is a special purpose command to create bootable RT-11 systems. RT-11 Version 1 through Version 3 monitors had the system device handler linked into the monitor image. For Version 4 of RT-11, the system device handler uses the standard device handler, and the COPY /BOOT command must dynamically link the handler into the bootstrap area. COPY /BOOT will auto- matically sense whether the monitor file is an early or late monitor, and perform this extra step if required. It finds the default handler for the specific device type, and merges the handler with the monitor as it is copied to the boot area. The optional value on the /BOOT qualifier is used to over- ride the choice of the default handler. The most frequent use of this value occurs when a floppy is mounted in an RX02 drive, but it is desired to create a floppy bootable from an RX01 drive (obviously, the floppy must be single density). The default handler for the RX02 is DY.SYS, and the handler needed for the RX01 is DX.SYS. Therefore, one would use the command COPY /BOOT=DX to make an RX01 bootable system. Do not specify /BOOT=nn for V3 and earlier systems, choose the monitor file DYMNxx.SYS or DXMNxx.SYS as the source file. The /BOOT qualifier only allows a single parameter, the name of the monitor file. The /BOOT qualifier cannot be combined with qualifiers other than /LOG. On Thu, 4 Apr 2002, Jerome H. Fine wrote: > What I am curious about is how you are able to run the program > DUP.SAV which is what you are doing with the command > COPY/BOOT DU0:RT11XM.SYS DU0: > when you are running Exchange under VMS. If you mean > that you will first boot RT-11 on the PDP-11 after you > have copied V5.03 of RT-11 to the SCSI hard drive, that > I can understand - although be careful - since your RX02 > files are for V4.00 of RT-11, you will first need to put a > set of V5.03 files on an RX02 floppy and boot that. If > I am mixed up about your system, please explain. Maybe > Exchange under VMS allows the command > COPY/BOOT DU0:RT11XM.SYS DU0: From pcw at mesanet.com Thu Apr 4 19:46:57 2002 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:04 2005 Subject: Core Memory Interfacing? In-Reply-To: <00e501c1dc37$d8de3dc0$d4ee9a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: On Thu, 4 Apr 2002, ajp166 wrote: > From: Peter C. Wallace > > > >Hytype IIs also use a 8 bit TTL based microcoded machine (IICRC they use > >74LS283 adders, 74LS170 register file chips, along with bipolar > PROMS)... > > > > > I have a few of those boards... Wich I had the correct prints for the > board numbers > I do have. Could be fun to bend them into a general purpose 8bitter. > > Allison > > > I remember playing with that idea many many years ago. I dont think it has much of an address range though... Peter Wallace From tom at sba.miami.edu Thu Apr 4 19:52:55 2002 From: tom at sba.miami.edu (Tom Leffingwell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:04 2005 Subject: CD-ROM on RT-11? In-Reply-To: <3CACECFE.5AF718DC@compsys.to> Message-ID: On Thu, 4 Apr 2002, Jerome H. Fine wrote: > Any idea if there was a DEC approved CDROM drive which did NOT > use a caddy? All of the DEC CD-ROMs after the RRD42 were caddyless. RRD43's are pretty cheap, and I've never seen a case where it wouldn't work where an RRD42 would. Its a double speed with a spindle that the CD snaps on to, so you can operate the drive in any position, including upside down if you want. RRD45's (quad speed) probably aren't much more...they have the tray style setup like most PCs. RRD46's were still a little pricey last I looked, they were 12x speed if I remember correctly. > Any idea how much an M8190-BB (quad 11/73) might cost? I have a > couple, but I want to keep them for a few more years. But Tom might > find this is the least expensive way to go. I have the same problem of having to get another backplane at that point, as that would take another half slot. Did any of the PDPs ever have a console program like the VAX's and alphas do? I guess those machines are probably pretty expensive. I miss things like "show dev" when working on the PDP. From tsm at palindrome.org Thu Apr 4 20:29:09 2002 From: tsm at palindrome.org (Terry Murphy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:04 2005 Subject: Austin, TX: Free Rack-Mounted VAX Message-ID: <05aa01c1dc49$add70dc0$c901a8c0@bujumbura> Free rack-mounted VAX available in Austin, TX. Badged as a MicroVAX II, has a KA-655 CPU (MicroVAX 3800/3900), 32MB of RAM, and standard DELQA, RD54, TK50, etc. In H9642 (42") rackmount cabinet. Located in central Austin. Will go to the landfill if no takers. Please e-mail me if interested or have any questions. Thanks, Terry From bill_r at inetnebr.com Thu Apr 4 21:04:26 2002 From: bill_r at inetnebr.com (Bill Richman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:04 2005 Subject: New items have appeared in your saved search: Core Memory Message-ID: E-mail from eBay: "New items have appeared in your saved search: Core Memory" Clicking on the item link, we find: >The Core Memory Plus Pillow conforms to your head for a soothing, customized fit. > Layered memory foam promotes a proper sleeping posture, while the resilient foam > base provides therapeutic values. I'd think those ferrite beads would leave a pretty nasty imprint on your face, not to mention getting poked by the wires all the time. So, how many bits are these things, anyway??? -Bill Richman (bill_r@inetnebr.com) Web Page: http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r Home of the COSMAC Elf Microcomputer Simulator, Fun with Molten Metal, Orphaned Robots, and Technological Oddities. From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Thu Apr 4 21:08:02 2002 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:04 2005 Subject: PS/2 - E Message-ID: In a message dated 4/4/2002 6:28:17 PM Eastern Standard Time, csmith@amdocs.com writes: > I have a PS/2 - E. It's a little tiny 80387(?) with a 387 math > coprocessor. Four PCMCIA slots, and a floppy drive. Integrated > video, parallel and serial. 1.4M floppy, and unknown(right now) > hard drive. > > Does anyone know anything about it? > > What can I do with it? Will OS/2 work? What interface does the > hard drive use, BTW? What are my chances of getting BSD or linux > to drive the PCMCIA slots? Anything else I should know about this > one? > It's a neat system. I bought two and still have one in original box with all original ship group items. One of the two I bought was still under 3 year warranty! it's a 486slc class machine and uses a thinkpad floppy drive and 2.5 IDE laptop hard drive. nice and quiet too. takes 16meg max. OS/2 runs fine on it, just like it would on any PS/2 or you can use win 3.1. -- DB Young www.nothingtodo.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020404/e00a15cb/attachment.html From jrkeys at concentric.net Thu Apr 4 21:36:28 2002 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:04 2005 Subject: Austin, TX: Free Rack-Mounted VAX References: <05aa01c1dc49$add70dc0$c901a8c0@bujumbura> Message-ID: <01b901c1dc53$828f24e0$cc000240@default> I will be in Austin this weekend to pick up some other machines and can drop for it, if it's still there. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Terry Murphy" To: Sent: Thursday, April 04, 2002 8:29 PM Subject: Austin, TX: Free Rack-Mounted VAX > Free rack-mounted VAX available in Austin, TX. Badged as a MicroVAX II, has > a KA-655 CPU (MicroVAX 3800/3900), 32MB of RAM, and standard DELQA, RD54, > TK50, etc. In H9642 (42") rackmount cabinet. Located in central Austin. Will > go to the landfill if no takers. Please e-mail me if interested or have any > questions. > > Thanks, > Terry > > > From carlos_murillo at epm.net.co Thu Apr 4 21:22:49 2002 From: carlos_murillo at epm.net.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:04 2005 Subject: Was: Re: WW fixtures (now hp67C) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20020404222249.00f90b64@pop1.epm.net.co> At 11:45 AM 4/4/02 -0500, you wrote: >I would LOVE to see that happen.... take me to Cuba or I'll fail to break >your skin with my mini shards of metal, in my lethal squeeze powered >dispenser! Don't make me empty this thing onto my shoe... I'll do it... >I'm just crazy enough! And if that doesn't scare you... I'll beat you >with this airline pillow! >Hell, you could do more damage by sitting in the exit row, and pulling >the shiny red handle on the wall. >-chris whoever said that fear was a rational emotion? the main problem is, that's how this crisis has been confronted--rather irrationally, i.e., by appealing to mankind's worst instincts, which, by the way, have surfaced as usual. 21st century schizoid man (does anyone remember this song?). please don't get me started on this... I used to be able to carry my victorinox explorer with me ... to drive this on topic, how many of you fell for the hp67c april fool's joke at the hp calculator museum? I did, for a few ecstatic seconds, and then felt _rather_ heartbroken... carlos. -------------------------------------------------------------- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Apr 4 21:28:17 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:04 2005 Subject: CD-ROM on RT-11? In-Reply-To: from "Jerome H. Fine" at Apr 04, 2002 07:17:02 PM Message-ID: <200204050328.g353SHU11377@shell1.aracnet.com> > I presume from what you are saying that the Viking/QDT does not have any > boot ROMs. If so, it is one of the very few (probably the only one I know > about) NON-DEC controllers or host adapters that does not have a boot > ROM. There are four versions of the Viking board. Tape, Disk, Tape/Disk, and Disk/Boot (it can only boot a PDP-11). > Any idea if there was a DEC approved CDROM drive which did NOT > use a caddy? Sure, any CD-ROM that they had out after the RRD-42. > Any idea how much an M8190-BB (quad 11/73) might cost? I have a > couple, but I want to keep them for a few more years. But Tom might > find this is the least expensive way to go. It would probably be a worth while upgrade, BUT it would also require a backplane and memory upgrade, and as I recall he doesn't have a budget for this. As for the price I don't remember, but I know they've come down in price (I got mine as part of a trade). Zane From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Apr 4 21:34:16 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:04 2005 Subject: Harris Model 8 CPU In-Reply-To: from "Al Kossow" at Apr 04, 2002 04:56:13 PM Message-ID: <200204050334.g353YHL11501@shell1.aracnet.com> > Does anyone have any docs on the Harris 24 bit line (or > the Datacraft 6024?) Considering there are still H-series > machines in use, I've not been able to turn up much at > all on them. Somewhere I've got printouts of the JCL 'man' pages from a H550. That's ALL the doc's I've ever really seen on one. The same binder has 3 8" floppies containing documents I created with the MUSE Word Processor. Zane From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Thu Apr 4 21:36:25 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:04 2005 Subject: New items have appeared in your saved search: Core Memory References: Message-ID: <3CAD1BB9.5F723E1@jetnet.ab.ca> Bill Richman wrote: > I'd think those ferrite beads would leave a pretty nasty imprint on > your face, not to mention getting poked by the wires all the time. > So, how many bits are these things, anyway??? One bit per bit of core. -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From rdd at rddavis.org Thu Apr 4 22:35:35 2002 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:04 2005 Subject: Software Preservation (was: SIMTEL...) In-Reply-To: <000701c1dc23$15db6370$e401a8c0@tegjeff.com> References: <000701c1dc23$15db6370$e401a8c0@tegjeff.com> Message-ID: <20020405043535.GB3035@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Douglas H. Quebbeman, from writings of Thu, Apr 04, 2002 at 04:52:58PM -0500: > from the SIMTEL archive. As it turns out, the QIC-80 tape > they're on must have stretched, and I only wrote one set Sorry to hear that this happened to your tape. :-( I'm becoming convinced that the safest way to preserve software is to keep it on a live filesystem that's frequently backed up, using at least one type of relatively modern storage media - or at least on mylar tape, although that's impractical for large amounts of data (and impractical for me because I haven't acquired a tape punch/reader yet). Any thoughts on this? -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From fernande at internet1.net Thu Apr 4 22:20:06 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:04 2005 Subject: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New""" References: Message-ID: <3CAD25F6.8030502@internet1.net> Wow, I want one.... must have, need, etc...... ooo Toyz :-) I've like falshlights since I was a kid. My sister and I both get it from our father. I used to try and build them. Once I tried using the aluminum tube case from some kind of military flare. It was kind of neat, but I had to hold the reflector in by hand :-) Chad Fernandez Micigan, USA Chris wrote: >>What's an LED flashlight? Do you mean one of thelaser pointers? > > > No, they now make flashlights that rather than using a traditional > incandescent bulb, use a super bright LED instead. > > I have one on my keychain that is this tiny thin black plastic thing. You > squeeze it, and the LED on the end lights up. It is REALLY freaking > bright (bright enough, that if I shine it out a car window, I can read > house numbers across the street), and is powered by two fairly standard > replaceable button cell batteries. > > -chris > > > > > From fernande at internet1.net Thu Apr 4 22:25:42 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:04 2005 Subject: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New" PDP-8)) References: Message-ID: <3CAD2746.4060500@internet1.net> Tony Duell wrote: >>I want quality, but sometimes it seems that I have to go too high end to >>get it. > > > Yes, I have that problem too. Often I simply _can't_ buy a quality item > any more. Which means I end up not buying anything, or more likely > finding some battered second-hand device and spending time restoring it. I end up not buying anything quite often too. Sometimes, I end up just buying the cheap piece of junk. I often look for used stuff. However, I rarley find things as I want/need them. Usually have to just "keep an eye out" for things that I have wanted in the past. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From fernande at internet1.net Thu Apr 4 22:29:06 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:04 2005 Subject: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New" PDP-8)) References: Message-ID: <3CAD2812.5050406@internet1.net> I've read about bolt types on Brit bikes a bit. It seems that they had a variety of things they called Whitworth. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Merle K. Peirce wrote: > That's because you had the wrong wrenches. I've always wanted to have > someone ask me for a half-inch wrench and hand him a Whitworth > half-inch. I think there's a set in the Rover. From fernande at internet1.net Thu Apr 4 22:37:00 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:04 2005 Subject: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New" PDP-8)) References: Message-ID: <3CAD29EC.4040000@internet1.net> Tony Duell wrote: > Then the world is screwed up (but that's nothing new). PCs in the UK are > assmebled with 6-32 UNC screws (which we find hard to get) mostly. I > suppose yours are assembled with M3 screws, right :-) I'm not sure what size they are. I run into several sizes actually. Once on a while, I get desperate for a screw and start digging through my collction of screws from when I was into R/C cars. Usually, I can't find a match, metric or SAE. I do have one big unused server case, made in the US, by Tandy, for Grid, for the US Government. It does use 6/32. If I ever do use it again, I'll be switching all the screws to "allen" head button type screws. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Apr 4 22:41:31 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:04 2005 Subject: Software Preservation (was: SIMTEL...) In-Reply-To: <20020405043535.GB3035@rhiannon.rddavis.org> from "R. D. Davis" at Apr 04, 2002 11:35:35 PM Message-ID: <200204050441.g354fVp13889@shell1.aracnet.com> > I'm becoming convinced that the safest way to preserve software is to > keep it on a live filesystem that's frequently backed up, using at > least one type of relatively modern storage media - or at least on > mylar tape, although that's impractical for large amounts of data (and > impractical for me because I haven't acquired a tape punch/reader > yet). Any thoughts on this? I've already become convinced the only practical way to preserve it is onto live filesystems that are regularly backed up. The trick is finding an affordable backup system. I think I've finally found one. My idea is to build a Linux box with EIDE RAID setup to mirror a couple BIG EIDE disks (80+ Gigabytes). Then have everything else backup to those disks. I've figured out good ways to backup UNIX (rsync), VMS (BACKUP to an NFS mounted disk should work), and MacOS (Retrospect can backup via FTP). What I've not figured out is a way to backup Windows. Ideally the system would have enough Mirrored diskspace that it would be possible to keep a couple full backups, and a LOT of incremental backups on it. If I set this up, I'd like to also have some sort of tape drive hooked up to periodically backup the data that's been backed up to the system. Zane From doc at mdrconsult.com Thu Apr 4 22:50:05 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:04 2005 Subject: Software Preservation (was: SIMTEL...) In-Reply-To: <20020405043535.GB3035@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: On 4 Apr 2002, R. D. Davis wrote: > I'm becoming convinced that the safest way to preserve software is to > keep it on a live filesystem that's frequently backed up, using at > least one type of relatively modern storage media - or at least on > mylar tape, although that's impractical for large amounts of data (and > impractical for me because I haven't acquired a tape punch/reader > yet). Any thoughts on this? I don't know about mylar, but anything that's important to me is on at least 2 physical drives - one in the box, subject to my weekly backups, and one on a shelf, and on CD as well as backup tapes. More because I _can_ than because I think it's imperative. MDR does disaster recovery, specialising in Tivoli's TSM, so I get a very frequent dose of horror story. It's appalling to me how many multi-billion-dollar businesses budget their data-protection on the order of a few thousand a year. It becomes appalling to them when they find out they don't _have_ any data protection. Doc From stanb at dial.pipex.com Thu Apr 4 14:37:23 2002 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:04 2005 Subject: Computers Manufactured in 1986^H^H56 In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 04 Apr 2002 13:40:34 CDT." <3CAC9E22.9060105@dragonsweb.org> Message-ID: <200204042037.VAA06791@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, "James B. DiGriz" said; > Stan Barr wrote: > > Hi, > > > > "James L. Rice" said; > > > > > >>Just out of curiosity, what was available in 1954? I probably coulfdn't > >>afford the power and a/c for all of the vacuum tubes. > > > > > > The Ferranti Mercury for one. > > > > Ferranti were experimenting with germanium transistors in computer > > circuits around that time - or possible a year or two later. > > Research that led to the Atlas, the fastest computer of its era... > > One year later, 1955, you have the TRIDAC, an analog aeronatical > simulator that is claimed to be the first computer to use transistors. > > Did Ferranti have anything to do with that project? There's only sketchy > information on the web about it that I could find with google. It wouldn't surprise me. Manchester University were early pioneers in semiconducer applications. Ferranti were closely associated with them, and Ferranti were heavily involved in military and aviation work. See: http://www.science.uva.nl/faculteit/museum/biganalog.html Ferranti were limited to convential alloy drift germanium transistors as they couldn't persuade anyone to manufacture ones designed for digital use. The Atlas used OC170s, which were designed for radio use, running at 10MHz IIRC. Floating point multiply in 4.97 microseconds which was pretty quick at the time! I dismantled a Ferranti board circa 1962/3 to recover the transistors... wish I'd kept the board now ;-( -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From doc at mdrconsult.com Thu Apr 4 23:06:17 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:04 2005 Subject: Cromemco Docs Message-ID: No, I didn't find a Cromemco. I did find, in a box of stuff that I thought was all Fortune 32:16 stuff, a loose-leaf binder with 200-300 pages of Cromemco documentation. It says on the flyleaf: This manual was produced on a Cromemco model 3355 printer Using the Cromemco Word Processing System, There is: Cromemco Fortran IV Instruction Manual - copyright 1977, 1979 Part 1 Fortran Reference Manual Part 2 Fortran User's Manual Cromemco Macro Assembler Manual Cromemco Macro Assembler Manual Addendum - dated January 1980 It's single-sided printing (not great quality), at a quick glance it seems to be all there, and it's in excellent condition. Anybody who can use it pays shipping. Doc From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Apr 4 23:25:20 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:04 2005 Subject: PS/2 - E In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020405052520.78703.qmail@web20102.mail.yahoo.com> > In a message dated 4/4/2002 6:28:17 PM Eastern Standard Time, > csmith@amdocs.com writes: > > I have a PS/2 - E. It's a little tiny 80387(?) with a 387 math > > coprocessor. 486SLC-50 > > Four PCMCIA slots, and a floppy drive. Integrated > > video, parallel and serial. 1.4M floppy, and unknown(right now) > > hard drive. Yep. > > Does anyone know anything about it? Yes. I have two, one with the Quad-PCMCIA card, one without. They are slightly sought after. I had a lead on another one (for someone else) this week from an intern at work, but he threw his out when he moved recently. :-( > > What can I do with it? Will OS/2 work? What interface does the > > hard drive use, BTW? Ordinary 44-pin 2.5" laptop IDE. 540MB max addressing in the BIOS. > > What are my chances of getting BSD or linux > > to drive the PCMCIA slots? Very good. I have Linux running on mine. I used it as a faux-Cisco PIX for a development LAN. Had 4 x 3C589 in it, one for a connection to the 'net and three for simulated internal LAN and DMZs. It ran for months passing packets (didn't implement any filters, but didn't need them for development). > > Anything else I should know about this one? 16MB max. 12MB if you want to use the linear-mapped mode of the internal video. Personally, I run text-mode Linux, so I'd rather have all the RAM in the world. If I were running a GUI, it would probably have a better response with less RAM because of the faster video access. If you google for PS-2/E and/or the IBM part number 9533, you'll find a couple of good pages out there, including (from IBM) the disk image you'll need to configure it (it doesn't have a ROM-based config like many brands of PeeCees). -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Thu Apr 4 23:46:39 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:04 2005 Subject: Core Memory Interfacing? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020405054639.58442.qmail@web20107.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Peter C. Wallace" wrote: > > > Yeah, there is the old 7400 series arithmetic unit... > > > > The 74x181. I've used it many times. It's also used in many of the > > computers that I love (like the classic PERQs and the PDP11/45). If anyone needs a few, I have a source here in town... the same place I got my TI 980A from. He doesn't have tubes and tubes, but I think a handful could be scored. These are 1972-era 74181s, not 74F181s, if that matters for your application. He would be very happy to trade some for BCD TTL for his electronics students (7492/74192 and similar counters keep coming up in our conversations). He has a limited class budget, so he would rather swap stuff than go to the well for extra dollars for chips that the electronics lab has run out of. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ From acme_ent at bellsouth.net Fri Apr 5 00:09:12 2002 From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:04 2005 Subject: Seeking Old Wirth-Jensen Pascal Book Message-ID: <20020405061038.BONI15543.imf09bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> > From: Douglas H. Quebbeman Now isn't THIS a frickin' coincidence -- Joe Rigdon just posted a link to an Ebay auction which included this very tome . . . Glen 0/0 > I used to have a copy of: > > PASCAL User Manual and Report > Authors: Jensen & Wirth > Pub: Springer-Verlag > > It had a silver cover with red & black printing. I loaned it out, > it never came back. > > If anyone has a copy they'd part with, or finds one, please > contact me. From GOOI at oce.nl Fri Apr 5 00:17:14 2002 From: GOOI at oce.nl (Gooijen H) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:04 2005 Subject: should I take RM03's ? Message-ID: <30DBA2DACC0CD611B3E60008C7092D8F2F8DC2@hqvenloexch.oce.nl> Hi all. I need some advise. In 3 weeks time Edward and I drive to Italy (some 1100 km) to pick up several PDP-11/70 parts. I have the oppertunity to drag 2 RM03 massbus drives and some packs back home. Now I know already that these drives weigh about 200 kilo, have a disk capacity of 67 Mb and are really power-hungry: at 240 V/50 Hz. stand-by is 3.5 A. running they consume 11.5 A. and rush-in current is 22 A. My experience is that DEC tend to give high numbers for the power consumption, but do these drives eat that much current? Are they worth preserving? Or should I leave them where they are? Next to the 11/70 is looks great (IMHO) but I would love to hear some opinions from other collectors. - Henk. From mcguire at neurotica.com Fri Apr 5 00:35:21 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:04 2005 Subject: should I take RM03's ? In-Reply-To: should I take RM03's ? (Gooijen H) References: <30DBA2DACC0CD611B3E60008C7092D8F2F8DC2@hqvenloexch.oce.nl> Message-ID: <15533.17833.740648.732205@phaduka.neurotica.com> On April 5, Gooijen H wrote: > I need some advise. > In 3 weeks time Edward and I drive to Italy (some 1100 km) > to pick up several PDP-11/70 parts. > I have the oppertunity to drag 2 RM03 massbus drives and > some packs back home. Now I know already that these drives > weigh about 200 kilo, have a disk capacity of 67 Mb and > are really power-hungry: at 240 V/50 Hz. stand-by is 3.5 A. > running they consume 11.5 A. and rush-in current is 22 A. > > My experience is that DEC tend to give high numbers for the > power consumption, but do these drives eat that much current? > > Are they worth preserving? Or should I leave them where they are? > Next to the 11/70 is looks great (IMHO) but I would love to hear > some opinions from other collectors. A.K.A. CDC 9762 with a Massbus<->SMD adapter in the bottom. Nice drives. I powered two of them on a 110V 15A circuit....as long as I spun them up sequentially to let the starting surge die down, the breaker stayed closed. I never measured the actual current draw, but that sorta says it. :) If you have the space, grab 'em! :-) -Dave -- Dave McGuire "I thought it would go quickly, St. Petersburg, FL that rubberized bottom..." -Sridhar From sloboyko at yahoo.com Fri Apr 5 00:38:51 2002 From: sloboyko at yahoo.com (Loboyko Steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:04 2005 Subject: Core Memory Interfacing? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020405063851.50543.qmail@web11803.mail.yahoo.com> I have the Xerox Hytype II service manual with schematics of the infamous Logic I and II boards, several versions. Let me know the Board #'s and etch and if I got 'em, I can scan them. I used to repair these printers (mostly at a board level) in a previous life. I don't know if making them into your own CPU would be practical but there sure is a lot to learn on these two boards...even now. --- "Peter C. Wallace" wrote: > On Thu, 4 Apr 2002, ajp166 wrote: > > > From: Peter C. Wallace > > > > > >Hytype IIs also use a 8 bit TTL based microcoded > machine (IICRC they use > > >74LS283 adders, 74LS170 register file chips, > along with bipolar > > PROMS)... > > > > > > > > > I have a few of those boards... Wich I had the > correct prints for the > > board numbers > > I do have. Could be fun to bend them into a > general purpose 8bitter. > > > > Allison > > > > > > > > I remember playing with that idea many many years > ago. I dont think it has > much of an address range though... > > > > Peter Wallace > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ From sloboyko at yahoo.com Fri Apr 5 00:47:03 2002 From: sloboyko at yahoo.com (Loboyko Steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:04 2005 Subject: Software Preservation (was: SIMTEL...) In-Reply-To: <20020405043535.GB3035@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <20020405064703.68901.qmail@web11808.mail.yahoo.com> I have a paper tape punch that does Mylar. too bad the density is so low and the cost of Mylar is so high! I too worry about preserving this type of history. I've been playing with my PDP-8 and its software, and I wonder what the oldest existing program that actually runs might be... I once worked with a 3M representative when the company I was working for was getting into CD-ROMS and CD-R's. He claimed that eventually, CD's that are factory made would suffer from moisture migration (same as a chip) unless they used a gold and not aluminum layer. He said that with the formulas available at the time (mid-90's), they thought but would not guarantee that CD-R's would last from 25-100 years if kept in a cool, dark, dry place when not used. I know for certain that the dye formulas have changed since then. Anyone else know more recent data? I own a music CD from the dawn of the CD era (mid-80's?) and it still plays perfectly (although this is no indication of data integrity). At that time, I think they cost maybe $25 and the "jewel box" was so well made you could use it to prop up a table leg! Now you look at them funny and they crack or break. --- "R. D. Davis" wrote: > Quothe Douglas H. Quebbeman, from writings of Thu, > Apr 04, 2002 at 04:52:58PM -0500: > > from the SIMTEL archive. As it turns out, the > QIC-80 tape > > they're on must have stretched, and I only wrote > one set > > Sorry to hear that this happened to your tape. :-( > > I'm becoming convinced that the safest way to > preserve software is to > keep it on a live filesystem that's frequently > backed up, using at > least one type of relatively modern storage media - > or at least on > mylar tape, although that's impractical for large > amounts of data (and > impractical for me because I haven't acquired a tape > punch/reader > yet). Any thoughts on this? > > -- > Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference > between humans & other animals: > All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief > that we're above Nature & > rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, > using dogma to justify such > http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to > justify much human cruelty. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ From hhacker at ev1.net Fri Apr 5 01:31:47 2002 From: hhacker at ev1.net (William R. Buckley) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:04 2005 Subject: should I take RM03's ? In-Reply-To: <30DBA2DACC0CD611B3E60008C7092D8F2F8DC2@hqvenloexch.oce.nl> Message-ID: > Hi all. > > I need some advise. > In 3 weeks time Edward and I drive to Italy (some 1100 km) > to pick up several PDP-11/70 parts. > I have the oppertunity to drag 2 RM03 massbus drives and > some packs back home. Now I know already that these drives > weigh about 200 kilo, have a disk capacity of 67 Mb and > are really power-hungry: at 240 V/50 Hz. stand-by is 3.5 A. > running they consume 11.5 A. and rush-in current is 22 A. > > My experience is that DEC tend to give high numbers for the > power consumption, but do these drives eat that much current? > > Are they worth preserving? Or should I leave them where they are? > Next to the 11/70 is looks great (IMHO) but I would love to hear > some opinions from other collectors. > > - Henk. > Frankly, do you really intend to use those drives? My point is that I would acquire them but, only as a component of a complete system, and definately not as a part which I expected to function. Compared to contemporary systems, they are woefully inadequate, and so usage of same seems pointless, if not foolish. Those drives are museum pieces, and should be viewed as such. Hence, get them, since they look nice next to the CPU but, do not use them. Find an alternative source of external storage to use with the CPU. For instance, I have two RM02's as part of my 11/44 but, I never supply them with power. Instead, for actual operating storage, I use some Fujitsu Eagles. As a practical point, I think it is very good to acquire and hold old mainframes but, it is better to use emulators (like Ersatz-11) for actual execution. The reason is the excessive power needs of older systems versus the same for modern systems, not to mention the tremendous improvement in throughput offered by an emulator over the old hardware. After all, when it comes to computers, they are all Turing machine equivalents, yet, no one actually runs software designed for an actual Turing machine. The results of execution will be the same, whether executed on a real PDP, or an exactingly implemented emulator. The only expected difference will be in the time to completion of program execution. Sure, sure, I know my position is not going to be well accepted by those members of our list having a purist bent but, I do expect that emulators will continue to be effective long after our hardware possessions stop functioning due to failing parts, etc. Moral: Forget about using those RM03's. Instead, get them for the museum value. William R. Buckley From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Fri Apr 5 02:06:37 2002 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:04 2005 Subject: "When programming is outlawed, only outlaws will program"" In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.0.20020404095810.02346e68@pc> References: Message-ID: <3CAD772D.2855.30D468DB@localhost> > >Perhaps it's his penchant for asking young hacker boys to come home with > >him and "share massages" so that he would feel comfortable discussing his > >past with them. > For me as young cute hacker magazine writer, it was the > invitation / demand that a good time to do the interview > would be while "working out" with him in the hotel gym. > No other time would work. I declined... Well, either I was just not cute enough to get, or not fluent enough in English to understand such an offer when he stayed with us. Now, thinking again, maybe one of my friends was cuter and stole him from me ... theese Bastards ! SCNR - I'd considere him just average weired, and I know a lot more people where I would deny that I know em. His personal pleasures are his business, and I still can say no. Well, blame it on my low moral values, I'm European. TBOTA - He did some stuff wich is OT to this list because of the historic relevance. Gruss H. P.S.:After all, I like back rubs too ... my only fault is that I'd rather let some 20 year old girls do the job... -- VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Fri Apr 5 02:19:42 2002 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:04 2005 Subject: CP/M and Imsai In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3CAD7A3E.28022.30E06278@localhost> > > > > >http://www.retroarchive.org/cpm/archive/unofficial/ > > > > Da place! > > > Isn't > > > http://www.gaby.de/cpm/index.html > > > more like the official unofficial web site ? > > Sorry. I had no idea. I've had a "favorite" set to retroarchive > > for years. I'll have to change it. > I made a quick mirror of it a couple of years ago when it looked like it > might vanish. Since Gaby is doing such a good job, I necer saw fit to > keep the mirror at retroarchive.org updated. Gene, my mail was never ment to put your work down. No way. We need people who react quickly to save information. Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Fri Apr 5 02:24:31 2002 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:04 2005 Subject: CP/M and Imsai In-Reply-To: <002001c1dbed$8ca76fc0$3a7b7b7b@ajp> Message-ID: <3CAD7B5F.1432.30E4CD06@localhost> > >http://www.gaby.de/cpm/index.html > >more like the official unofficial web site ? > >AFAIR Retroarchive is only snapshoot of the old site, > >while the pages at gaby.de are still maintained (and > >extended). > Is a good thing. The extensions are very fine. Gaby is very determinated wehn it comes to CP/M. Girls ... :) Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From jarkko.teppo at er-grp.com Fri Apr 5 02:38:28 2002 From: jarkko.teppo at er-grp.com (Jarkko Teppo) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:05 2005 Subject: CP/M and Imsai In-Reply-To: <3CAD7A3E.28022.30E06278@localhost> References: <3CAD7A3E.28022.30E06278@localhost> Message-ID: <62989.62.148.198.97.1017995908.squirrel@mail.er-grp.com> Hans Franke said: > No way. We need people who react quickly to save > information. Amen. I've lost so much good information because I've thought that "Hey, it's in the web and somebody has to have a copy, right ?". For example, I *still* haven't found that particular "somebody" that has a copy of the webpage with instruction on how to break Framemakers NeXT m68k version copy-protection with GDB. Just for instructional uses of course. After the page was pulled I was able to do it myself (once) but now I'm just too lazy. And before anyone starts screaming, I've been trying to buy the program for close to six years now. So now I'm stuck in a loop of copying every single usefull snippet. I've got around 1GB of mailing-lists archived (after cleaning them up) and a lot of web-pages and pdf:s. Thank $DEITY for groups.google.com, the best thing on the Internet. -- jht From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Fri Apr 5 03:56:46 2002 From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:05 2005 Subject: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New""" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020405115646.A327437@MissSophie.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> On Thu, Apr 04, 2002 at 06:04:44PM -0500, Chris wrote: > I have one on my keychain that is this tiny thin black plastic thing. I have a similar thing called "Photonpump V8". It has a glareing white LED. The ideal tool for the VAX mechanician if you have to twiddle with the drive cables in a BA123... -- tsch??, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ From dquebbeman at acm.org Fri Apr 5 04:24:47 2002 From: dquebbeman at acm.org (Douglas H. Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:05 2005 Subject: should I take RM03's ?" Message-ID: <002301c1dc8c$203dd5a0$9aeeffcc@Shadow> > A.K.A. CDC 9762 with a Massbus<->SMD adapter in the bottom. Nice > drives. I powered two of them on a 110V 15A circuit....as long as I > spun them up sequentially to let the starting surge die down, the > breaker stayed closed. I never measured the actual current draw, but > that sorta says it. :) If anyone runs across one of these in either Prime colors or straight CDC color/badging, please drop me a line. I have terribly fond memories of them... I just let Doug Gwyn beat me on one of the 9764? (the larger 300MB drive that's somewhat similar) on e-Bay... thx, -dq From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Fri Apr 5 04:37:48 2002 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Carlini, Antonio) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:05 2005 Subject: CD-ROM on RT-11? Message-ID: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC47066559@exc-reo1.yagosys.com> Tom Leffingwell wrote: >All of the DEC CD-ROMs after the RRD42 were caddyless. R The RRD44 on my desk here needs a caddy. Antonio From Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com Fri Apr 5 04:43:34 2002 From: Antonio.Carlini at riverstonenet.com (Carlini, Antonio) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:05 2005 Subject: CD-ROM on RT-11? Message-ID: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC4706655A@exc-reo1.yagosys.com> Jerome H. Fine wrote: >Note that under VMS Exchange, you may be limited to just ONE >RT-11 partition, i.e. partition zero. It was over 10 years ago when >I used Exchange under VMS and the RT-11 partition default was >zero. If all you want is a straight copy of an RT-11 disk and you are using OpenVMS, why not use BACKUP/PHYSICAL? I would suggest: $ BACKUP/PHYSICAL device: filename.BCK/SAVE This would save your floppy contents in filename.BCK. Then restore with: $ BACKUP/PHYSICAL filename.BCK/SAVE device: I don't have the necessary h/w anymore to try this, but it should work. I've certainly done something similar with RX50 WPS floppies and I've seen others do the same with DECmate III floppies. The added advantage is that you end up with a block-by-block copy of your floppy that you can save on CD or whatever. Antonio From sipke at wxs.nl Fri Apr 5 05:05:26 2002 From: sipke at wxs.nl (Sipke de Wal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:05 2005 Subject: Headstart Explorer References: <003701c1dc19$50793b60$0201a8c0@John> Message-ID: <001901c1dc91$ca80eca0$030101ac@boll.casema.net> Did you do a high or a low-level format ? Sipke de Wal ------------------------------------------ http://xgistor.ath.cx ------------------------------------------ ----- Original Message ----- From: John & Brenda Stuart To: Sent: Thursday, April 04, 2002 10:43 PM Subject: Headstart Explorer > Hi Mr. Clausen, > > I have been seeking help on my Headstart Explorer XT computer made by > Vendex. I cannot seem to restore it after formating the 40 MB hard disk, > Automagic. I have > all the original disks that came with it when I bought it new in 1990. The > Master Disk says to put it in the A drive and then turn on the computer. I > have done this several times and it does not seem to work. I have the other > disks, DOS System Disk #1, Programs Disk #2, and Disk 3. > I would appreciate any assistance you may give me. > > Thanks, > John > > From foxvideo at wincom.net Fri Apr 5 05:25:02 2002 From: foxvideo at wincom.net (Charles E. Fox) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:05 2005 Subject: Headstart Explorer In-Reply-To: <003701c1dc19$50793b60$0201a8c0@John> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020405062222.00b20bb0@mail.wincom.net> At 02:43 PM 04/04/2002 -0600, you wrote: >Hi Mr. Clausen, > >I have been seeking help on my Headstart Explorer XT computer made by >Vendex. I cannot seem to restore it after formating the 40 MB hard disk, >Automagic. I have >all the original disks that came with it when I bought it new in 1990. The >Master Disk says to put it in the A drive and then turn on the computer. I >have done this several times and it does not seem to work. I have the other >disks, DOS System Disk #1, Programs Disk #2, and Disk 3. >I would appreciate any assistance you may give me. > >Thanks, >John More information would be helpful, does anything appear on the screen when you turn it onwith no disk , or with Number 1 or number 2? Regards Charlie Fox Charles E. Fox Video Production 793 Argyle Rd. Windsor Ontario Canada N8Y 3J8 519-254-4991 foxvideo@wincom.net Check out the "Camcorder Kindergarten" at http://chasfoxvideo.com From mcguire at neurotica.com Fri Apr 5 05:40:40 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:05 2005 Subject: should I take RM03's ?" In-Reply-To: RE: should I take RM03's ?" (Douglas H. Quebbeman) References: <002301c1dc8c$203dd5a0$9aeeffcc@Shadow> Message-ID: <15533.36152.865009.699116@phaduka.neurotica.com> On April 5, Douglas H. Quebbeman wrote: > If anyone runs across one of these in either Prime colors or > straight CDC color/badging, please drop me a line. I have > terribly fond memories of them... > > I just let Doug Gwyn beat me on one of the 9764? (the larger > 300MB drive that's somewhat similar) on e-Bay... ...the very same Doug Gwyn who once told me that he wasn't interested in classic hardware, only software. ;) -Dave -- Dave McGuire "I thought it would go quickly, St. Petersburg, FL that rubberized bottom..." -Sridhar From coredump at gifford.co.uk Fri Apr 5 05:43:37 2002 From: coredump at gifford.co.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:05 2005 Subject: Computers Manufactured in 1986^H^H56 References: <200204042037.VAA06791@citadel.metropolis.local> Message-ID: <3CAD8DE9.113FD0F6@gifford.co.uk> Stan Barr wrote: > I dismantled a Ferranti board circa 1962/3 to recover the transistors... > wish I'd kept the board now ;-( Likewise, I dismantled a Leo board in about 1975 to recover several GET111 germanium transistors. I still have the board and the transistors. -- John Honniball coredump@gifford.co.uk From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Fri Apr 5 05:55:14 2002 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:05 2005 Subject: OT, but what a relief In-Reply-To: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA615014677FA@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> Message-ID: <3CADACC2.6405.31A5B8B8@localhost> Crashed computer boots local man into jail: http://www.wisinfo.com/postcrescent/news/archive/local_3204626.shtml Short story: A shop had five atempts to get a new PC to work, they still failed, so the man took the computer in a 6th time, put it on the floor and smashed it with a sledge hammer. Wisconsin seams to be a place for unusual people. Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From stanb at dial.pipex.com Fri Apr 5 03:02:49 2002 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:05 2005 Subject: Computers Manufactured in 1986 Message-ID: <200204050902.KAA09296@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, "Merle K. Peirce" said: You have the Kelvin? What a lovely surprise. ^^^^^^ [see below...} >On Wed, 3 Apr 2002, Stan Barr wrote: >> Hi, >> >> Ben Franchuk said: >> > Stan Barr wrote: >> > All of a sudden I feel _very_ old ;-( There were no working electronic >> > > computers when I was born...even Collosus was still a few months from >> > > completion.... >> > >> > Well you could go after the mechanical ones :) >> >> Finding one here in the UK would be difficult! We have a very nice >> string (wire, actually..) and pulley tidal computer here in Liverpool. >> It was computing tide table for countries all round the world until >> replaced by an IBM 1130. >> Kelvin?? Must look that one up... ;-) I don't personally have such a thing ;-) But Liverpool University have a Doodson/Lege - magnificnt beast! See www.pol.ac.uk -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From dquebbeman at acm.org Fri Apr 5 06:15:31 2002 From: dquebbeman at acm.org (Douglas H. Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:05 2005 Subject: should I take RM03's ? Message-ID: <000701c1dc9b$99df62c0$e401a8c0@tegjeff.com> > On April 5, Douglas H. Quebbeman wrote: > > If anyone runs across one of these in either Prime colors or > > straight CDC color/badging, please drop me a line. I have > > terribly fond memories of them... > > > > I just let Doug Gwyn beat me on one of the 9764? (the larger > > 300MB drive that's somewhat similar) on e-Bay... > > ...the very same Doug Gwyn who once told me that he wasn't > interested in classic hardware, only software. ;) Well, people's interests change, and Doug's a good guy... I think he's possible spreading himself a bit too thinly, but then I resemble that remark sufficiently that I'll not be criticizing anyone for it. I've had a few hobby-related things go so far south before that it left me in a seriously deep funk for, well, years. But forgiveness can be liberating, and the good things that have been happening that last few months to the last year more than make up for it. Sometimes, you just gotta take the long view... -dq -Douglas Hurst Quebbeman (DougQ at ixnayamspayIgLou.com) [Call me "Doug"] Surgically excise the pig-latin from my e-mail address in order to reply "The large print giveth, and the small print taketh away." -Tom Waits From mcguire at neurotica.com Fri Apr 5 06:36:03 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:05 2005 Subject: should I take RM03's ? In-Reply-To: RE: should I take RM03's ? (Douglas H. Quebbeman) References: <000701c1dc9b$99df62c0$e401a8c0@tegjeff.com> Message-ID: <15533.39475.305812.802228@phaduka.neurotica.com> On April 5, Douglas H. Quebbeman wrote: > > > I just let Doug Gwyn beat me on one of the 9764? (the larger > > > 300MB drive that's somewhat similar) on e-Bay... > > > > ...the very same Doug Gwyn who once told me that he wasn't > > interested in classic hardware, only software. ;) > > Well, people's interests change, and Doug's a good guy... > I think he's possible spreading himself a bit too thinly, > but then I resemble that remark sufficiently that I'll > not be criticizing anyone for it. Oh yes, I didn't mean to suggest otherwise...I just keep losing eBay auctions to him. ;) -Dave -- Dave McGuire "I thought it would go quickly, St. Petersburg, FL that rubberized bottom..." -Sridhar From jfoust at threedee.com Fri Apr 5 07:12:32 2002 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:05 2005 Subject: OT, but what a relief In-Reply-To: <3CADACC2.6405.31A5B8B8@localhost> References: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA615014677FA@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.0.20020405071106.02352198@pc> At 01:55 PM 4/5/2002 +0200, you wrote: >Crashed computer boots local man into jail: >http://www.wisinfo.com/postcrescent/news/archive/local_3204626.shtml >Short story: A shop had five atempts to get a new PC to work, >they still failed, so the man took the computer in a 6th time, >put it on the floor and smashed it with a sledge hammer. >Wisconsin seams to be a place for unusual people. Uhm, thanks! :-) But it was a computer from Gateway! - John From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Thu Apr 4 19:19:51 2002 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (Allison) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:05 2005 Subject: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New" PDP-8)) Message-ID: <000a01c1dc3f$fdb17380$3a7b7b7b@ajp> From: Chad Fernandez >I've read about bolt types on Brit bikes a bit. It seems that they had >a variety of things they called Whitworth. > >Chad Fernandez >Merle K. Peirce wrote: >> That's because you had the wrong wrenches. I've always wanted to have >> someone ask me for a half-inch wrench and hand him a Whitworth >> half-inch. I think there's a set in the Rover. Whitworth were decimal inch sizes. I have a set from about 30 years back along with metric and fractional inch sizes. What I dont have is a pair of vise grips, feh! Allison From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Thu Apr 4 19:22:37 2002 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (Allison) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:05 2005 Subject: Software Preservation (was: SIMTEL...) Message-ID: <001101c1dc40$604c10e0$3a7b7b7b@ajp> From: Zane H. Healy > >I've already become convinced the only practical way to preserve it is onto >live filesystems that are regularly backed up. I do that. Further I usually use a SET or drives if they are the fixed media as then if one fails the other unpowered twin is valid. SCSI RZ2x and 5x drives are handy for that though I also use RD52s, and ST225s. Allison From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Thu Apr 4 19:27:38 2002 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (Allison) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:05 2005 Subject: CP/M and Imsai Message-ID: <003201c1dc41$13abdda0$3a7b7b7b@ajp> From: Hans Franke > >> Is a good thing. The extensions are very fine. > >Gaby is very determinated wehn it comes to CP/M. >Girls ... :) We can't do math but we seem to gravitate to CP/M. ;) It's still a favorite as it does have a decent filesystem and is fully understandable without reading source code. Allison From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Thu Apr 4 19:36:17 2002 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (Allison) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:05 2005 Subject: Core Memory Interfacing? Message-ID: <005a01c1dc42$48da41a0$3a7b7b7b@ajp> Hi, The boards I have are: assy pn40827-05 rev-6 (has 3 82s181 proms on top edge) assy 40505 rev-C (has crystal and berg connector on top) Building a cpu is anything but practical... why should modding this? ;) Allison -----Original Message----- From: Loboyko Steve To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Date: Friday, April 05, 2002 1:47 AM Subject: Re: Core Memory Interfacing? > >I have the Xerox Hytype II service manual with >schematics of the infamous Logic I and II boards, >several versions. Let me know the Board #'s and etch >and if I got 'em, I can scan them. I used to repair >these printers (mostly at a board level) in a previous >life. > >I don't know if making them into your own CPU would be >practical but there sure is a lot to learn on these >two boards...even now. > >--- "Peter C. Wallace" wrote: >> On Thu, 4 Apr 2002, ajp166 wrote: >> >> > From: Peter C. Wallace >> > > >> > >Hytype IIs also use a 8 bit TTL based microcoded >> machine (IICRC they use >> > >74LS283 adders, 74LS170 register file chips, >> along with bipolar >> > PROMS)... >> > > >> > >> > >> > I have a few of those boards... Wich I had the >> correct prints for the >> > board numbers >> > I do have. Could be fun to bend them into a >> general purpose 8bitter. >> > >> > Allison >> > >> > >> > >> >> I remember playing with that idea many many years >> ago. I dont think it has >> much of an address range though... >> >> >> >> Peter Wallace >> > > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax >http://taxes.yahoo.com/ > From at258 at osfn.org Fri Apr 5 07:44:17 2002 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:05 2005 Subject: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New" PDP-8)) In-Reply-To: <3CAD29EC.4040000@internet1.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 4 Apr 2002, Chad Fernandez wrote: > I do have one big unused server case, made in the US, by Tandy, for > Grid, for the US Government. It does use 6/32. If I ever do use it > again, I'll be switching all the screws to "allen" head button type screws. Whitworth, or BSF? M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From jbstuart at gulftel.com Fri Apr 5 07:46:30 2002 From: jbstuart at gulftel.com (John & Brenda Stuart) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:05 2005 Subject: Headstart Explorer Help Message-ID: <001901c1dca8$4a50a4a0$0201a8c0@John> Hi again Mr. Carlson, I determined yesterday that I am missing a file or folder entitled "Patches". If you have this file in your Explorer, would you please email it to me? Thank you, John From kentborg at borg.org Fri Apr 5 08:14:15 2002 From: kentborg at borg.org (Kent Borg) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:05 2005 Subject: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New" PDP-8)) In-Reply-To: ; from ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk on Thu, Apr 04, 2002 at 10:46:11PM +0100 References: <20020404020020.MTCT29105.tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@duron> Message-ID: <20020405091415.A26252@borg.org> On Thu, Apr 04, 2002 at 10:46:11PM +0100, Tony Duell wrote: > I'm another mag-liter. Got a 2*AA in the toolbox, a 2*C on the shelf, a > 1*AAA on my keyring, and so on. I've found them to be very reliable. I have a single AAA on my keychain too. It is my second one, something got messed up with the rear end connections and then with the switch, so after many years (nearly all the black paint gone) I got another. Not terribly bright but very handy. Have used it to peer under raised computer room floors, but mostly use it for some little close purpose every few days. For our wedding we had double AAAs embossed as favors for our guests (small wedding). Nice little light. But for a *real* flashlight that is roughly the size of a double AA Maglite, I have a Sure-Fire 9P. It has a prefocused bulb & reflector and is powered by 3 #123 lithium cells. This puppy looks bright in daylight. I think it was the recent Godzilla movie that used a bigger model as "practicals" that were carried by some of the actors. A few episodes of the X-Files have used the same model as I have. Unlike the double AA and double AAA Maglites, the Sure-Fire will not come on by mistake in a bag or pocket. Being one who figures that some toys would only make me less secure in my person, I don't have the handgun mount (flash this in someone's face at night and you will only know if s/he is reaching for something, the light will stun your subject), but I do have the NiCd conversion: a battery pack, a short extension barrel so it will fit, different voltage light, and charger. Not chaep. Not easy to find. Very nice light. -kb, the Kent who has his in the bag he nearly always has with him. From geneb at deltasoft.com Fri Apr 5 08:58:39 2002 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:05 2005 Subject: CP/M and Imsai In-Reply-To: <3CAD7A3E.28022.30E06278@localhost> Message-ID: > > > Sorry. I had no idea. I've had a "favorite" set to retroarchive > > > for years. I'll have to change it. > > > I made a quick mirror of it a couple of years ago when it looked like it > > might vanish. Since Gaby is doing such a good job, I necer saw fit to > > keep the mirror at retroarchive.org updated. > > Gene, my mail was never ment to put your work down. > No way. We need people who react quickly to save > information. > Oh I never took it that way. I was just explaining _how_ the outdated mirror came into existence. :) g. From geneb at deltasoft.com Fri Apr 5 09:01:01 2002 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:05 2005 Subject: CP/M and Imsai In-Reply-To: <62989.62.148.198.97.1017995908.squirrel@mail.er-grp.com> Message-ID: > For example, I *still* haven't found that particular "somebody" that > has a copy of the webpage with instruction on how to break Framemakers > NeXT m68k version copy-protection with GDB. Just for instructional uses > of course. After the page was pulled I was able to do it myself (once) > but now I'm just too lazy. And before anyone starts screaming, I've been > trying to buy the program for close to six years now. > It might be stretch, but have you looked on the wayback machine yet? I think the URL is http://www.archive.org g. From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Fri Apr 5 09:03:43 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:05 2005 Subject: FA: COMPLETE! HP-86 system including CPM Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020405100343.007d6dc0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Located in Canada. Starting price $100 but it sounds worth it. Joe From fernande at internet1.net Fri Apr 5 09:28:36 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:05 2005 Subject: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New" PDP-8)) References: Message-ID: <3CADC2A4.5060709@internet1.net> Maybe I typed that wrong. I meant 6-32, not 6/32". I assume it's SAE, as they are standard "American" threads. I think it's my only PC class computer that isn't metric. Although, to be perfectly honest. I'm not sure what thread my PS/2's use. Screws aren't as big of an issue, with PS/2's. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA Merle K. Peirce wrote: > On Thu, 4 Apr 2002, Chad Fernandez wrote: > > >>I do have one big unused server case, made in the US, by Tandy, for >>Grid, for the US Government. It does use 6/32. If I ever do use it >>again, I'll be switching all the screws to "allen" head button type screws. > > > Whitworth, or BSF? > > M. K. Peirce > > Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. > Shady Lea, Rhode Island > > "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." > > - Ovid > > > From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Fri Apr 5 09:38:41 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:05 2005 Subject: OT, but what a relief References: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA615014677FA@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> <5.0.0.25.0.20020405071106.02352198@pc> Message-ID: <3CADC501.CD69C3C6@jetnet.ab.ca> John Foust wrote: > > At 01:55 PM 4/5/2002 +0200, you wrote: > >Crashed computer boots local man into jail: > >http://www.wisinfo.com/postcrescent/news/archive/local_3204626.shtml > >Short story: A shop had five atempts to get a new PC to work, > >they still failed, so the man took the computer in a 6th time, > >put it on the floor and smashed it with a sledge hammer. > >Wisconsin seams to be a place for unusual people. > > Uhm, thanks! :-) But it was a computer from Gateway! > > - John not reading the story ... if he paid for the computer is his to what he likes with it, not go to jail. -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From jfoust at threedee.com Fri Apr 5 10:03:28 2002 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:05 2005 Subject: OT, but what a relief In-Reply-To: <3CADC501.CD69C3C6@jetnet.ab.ca> References: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA615014677FA@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> <5.0.0.25.0.20020405071106.02352198@pc> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.0.20020405100250.02d45e28@pc> At 08:38 AM 4/5/2002 -0700, you wrote: >not reading the story ... if he paid for the computer is his to what he >likes with it, not go to jail. He was only charged with disorderly conduct, not theft or destruction of someone else's property. - John From fernande at internet1.net Fri Apr 5 10:11:27 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:05 2005 Subject: OT, but what a relief References: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA615014677FA@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> <5.0.0.25.0.20020405071106.02352198@pc> <3CADC501.CD69C3C6@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <3CADCCAF.7030101@internet1.net> Ben Franchuk wrote: > not reading the story ... if he paid for the computer is his to what he > likes with it, not go to jail. > But he smashed it, with a sledgehammer, in the lobbey area of a Gateway Country Store :-) Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Fri Apr 5 10:24:41 2002 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:05 2005 Subject: OT, but what a relief In-Reply-To: <3CADCCAF.7030101@internet1.net> Message-ID: <3CADEBE9.26639.329C692F@localhost> > > not reading the story ... if he paid for the computer is his to what he > > likes with it, not go to jail. > But he smashed it, with a sledgehammer, in the lobbey area of a Gateway > Country Store :-) Shouldn't this be considered as ecological correct disposal ? -- VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From jcwren at jcwren.com Fri Apr 5 10:29:21 2002 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (John Chris Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:05 2005 Subject: OT, but what a relief In-Reply-To: <3CADC501.CD69C3C6@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: Why not read the story, instead? "They jailed him, and he was released later Monday after posting a $150 bond for disorderly conduct, a misdemeanor charge." --John > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Ben Franchuk > Sent: Friday, April 05, 2002 10:39 AM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: OT, but what a relief > > > John Foust wrote: > > > > At 01:55 PM 4/5/2002 +0200, you wrote: > > >Crashed computer boots local man into jail: > > >http://www.wisinfo.com/postcrescent/news/archive/local_3204626.shtml > > >Short story: A shop had five atempts to get a new PC to work, > > >they still failed, so the man took the computer in a 6th time, > > >put it on the floor and smashed it with a sledge hammer. > > >Wisconsin seams to be a place for unusual people. > > > > Uhm, thanks! :-) But it was a computer from Gateway! > > > > - John > > not reading the story ... if he paid for the computer is his to what he > likes with it, not go to jail. > > -- > Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * > www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From bpope at wordstock.com Fri Apr 5 10:30:14 2002 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:05 2005 Subject: OT, but what a relief In-Reply-To: <3CADCCAF.7030101@internet1.net> from "Chad Fernandez" at Apr 5, 02 11:11:27 am Message-ID: <200204051630.LAA28503@wordstock.com> And thusly Chad Fernandez spake: > > Ben Franchuk wrote: > > not reading the story ... if he paid for the computer is his to what he > > likes with it, not go to jail. > > > > But he smashed it, with a sledgehammer, in the lobbey area of a Gateway > Country Store :-) > I wonder if he had just seen Office Space? ;-) ... Cheers, Bryan From foxvideo at wincom.net Fri Apr 5 10:38:01 2002 From: foxvideo at wincom.net (Charles E. Fox) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:05 2005 Subject: OT, but what a relief In-Reply-To: <3CADCCAF.7030101@internet1.net> References: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA615014677FA@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> <5.0.0.25.0.20020405071106.02352198@pc> <3CADC501.CD69C3C6@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020405113639.00b20e90@mail.wincom.net> At 11:11 AM 05/04/2002 -0500, you wrote: >Ben Franchuk wrote: >>not reading the story ... if he paid for the computer is his to what he >>likes with it, not go to jail. > >But he smashed it, with a sledgehammer, in the lobbey area of a Gateway >Country Store :-) > >Chad Fernandez >Michigan, USA Good thing he didn't work over the monitor, they would have nailed him for a terrorist. Cheers Charles E. Fox Video Production 793 Argyle Rd. Windsor Ontario Canada N8Y 3J8 519-254-4991 foxvideo@wincom.net Check out the "Camcorder Kindergarten" at http://chasfoxvideo.com From korpela at ssl.berkeley.edu Fri Apr 5 10:52:46 2002 From: korpela at ssl.berkeley.edu (Eric J. Korpela) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:05 2005 Subject: Software Preservation (was: SIMTEL...) In-Reply-To: <200204050441.g354fVp13889@shell1.aracnet.com> from "Zane H. Healy" at "Apr 4, 2002 08:41:31 pm" Message-ID: <200204051652.IAA22212@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> > > I'm becoming convinced that the safest way to preserve software is to > > keep it on a live filesystem that's frequently backed up, using at > > least one type of relatively modern storage media - or at least on > > mylar tape, although that's impractical for large amounts of data (and > > impractical for me because I haven't acquired a tape punch/reader > > yet). Any thoughts on this? > > I've already become convinced the only practical way to preserve it is onto > live filesystems that are regularly backed up. I agree to this. Fortunately the storage capacity of disks is increasing rapidly enough that I am able to keep all the files or disk images that I've ever had with plenty of room for current software. I currently use manual mirroring, since disks are much cheaper than a tape drive. Give it a year (or less) and disks will be less expensive than an equivalent tape, much less a drive. (DLT tapes are $1/GB or so. Big disks with 5 times the capacity are $1.80/GB.) My next semi permanent backup solution will likely be a DVD+RW even though that falls far short of the capacity I would desire. My next step after that is a hot swappable RAID mirror system, swapping a drive a week, with 4 drives in rotation. > found one. My idea is to build a Linux box with EIDE RAID setup to mirror a > couple BIG EIDE disks (80+ Gigabytes). Then have everything else backup to > those disks. I've figured out good ways to backup UNIX (rsync), VMS (BACKUP > to an NFS mounted disk should work), and MacOS (Retrospect can backup via > FTP). What I've not figured out is a way to backup Windows. Windows can mount linux drives via Samba. Just use your favorite windows backup program to back up to a file on the linux machine. I currently back up two of my windows machines to the third in this manner. Eric From jhellige at earthlink.net Fri Apr 5 11:07:12 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:05 2005 Subject: OT, but what a relief In-Reply-To: <3CADEBE9.26639.329C692F@localhost> References: <3CADEBE9.26639.329C692F@localhost> Message-ID: <02Apr5.122819est.119081@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> > > > not reading the story ... if he paid for the computer is his to what he >> > likes with it, not go to jail. > >> But he smashed it, with a sledgehammer, in the lobbey area of a Gateway >> Country Store :-) > >Shouldn't this be considered as ecological correct disposal ? Serves the Gateway store right that they had to clean up the mess Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri Apr 5 02:17:05 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:05 2005 Subject: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New" PDP-8)) In-Reply-To: Chad Fernandez "Re: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New" PDP-8))" (Apr 4, 23:29) References: <3CAD2812.5050406@internet1.net> Message-ID: <10204050917.ZM27569@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Apr 4, 23:29, Chad Fernandez wrote: > I've read about bolt types on Brit bikes a bit. It seems that they had > a variety of things they called Whitworth. Not really. See Tony's post; there are various series that use the same Whitworth thread form (55 degree thread angle, and rounding of crests and troughs) but they have different names. BSW (British Standard Whitworth) is the standard coarse series, analagous to ANC/UNC. BSF (British Standard Fine) is the corresponding fine-pitch series, analagous to ANF/UNF. There are some special-purpose threads you might have come across, such as BSB (British Standard Brass) which is used for finer pitch on soft metals (26 tpi, regardless of diameter). BSP (BS Pipe) is used for some pipe fittings, and is confusing because the sizes refer to the internal diameters of the high-pressure pipes or glands it would be used for (so 1/4" BSP is a little over 1/2" diameter over the threads). To add insult to injury, there are two types: plain, and tapered. Then there are some ME (Model Engineeer) threads which are very fine pitch, in two standard series: 32 tpi, and 40 tpi. A few of these correspond to normal BSW/BSF/BSB threads, but apart from that, they're relatively rare. Rarer still is British Standard Cycle, a fine pitch thread with a 60 degree thread angle, mostly 26 tpi or 32 tpi (1/8" is 40 tpi, though). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Fri Apr 5 11:13:54 2002 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:05 2005 Subject: Seeking Old Wirth-Jensen Pascal Book In-Reply-To: <002701c1db2b$4171ac90$e401a8c0@tegjeff.com> Message-ID: <3CADF772.18079.32C97828@localhost> > > Douglas H. Quebbeman wrote: > > >>>PASCAL User Manual and Report > > >>>Authors: Jensen & Wirth > > >>>Pub: Springer-Verlag > > >>bookfinder.com throws up multiple copies.... > > > Cool... do you think I can trade some S-100 boards for one? > > Ah, you did not specify that you wanted to trade. > Well, I've got a PTC 2KRO with one or two 1702s in it; > a label indicates some kind of code, probably a boot > ROM for CP/M, but until I dust off the SOL and fire > it up, I've no way to tell (My Needham EPROM burner > doesn't go back that far). I may have a spare copy of that book ... do or do you want the english translation ? :)) > > > What? Bookfinder.com won't do ClassicCmp trades? > > You could always offer. About time we regressed back to a > > barter economy. > Agreed, but the taxman's got his eye on that, too... So from every 14 pin IC they chip away 4 pins ? Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From csmith at amdocs.com Fri Apr 5 11:18:36 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:05 2005 Subject: PS/2 - E Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E0178438B@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Robert Schaefer [mailto:rschaefe@gcfn.org] > It's a neat little toy. I came across the PCMCIA controller > card for one a > few weeks ago and ended up finding more about the -e than the > card itself. > IIRC the model number is 9533-- put that in the search and > you should end up > with some good hits. I just found > http://www.tavi.co.uk/ps2pages/ohland/9533.html in an old msg > to myself. If > it's the one I'm thinking of, it's a good read. Thanks. That was informative. It seems the 387 math-co is "optional," so it's good that I have it. I also think there's some extra RAM in there. (Above the 4M they claim are on the board) Reminds me very much of the intel-based "multia" systems, which are about the same size, and about as well integrated. A related question would be, does anyone know a cheap source of PCMCIA boards? Specifically, to actually use this thing, I'll want an ethernet adaptor (10Mb), and probably some linear flash. Some SRAM that will operate at (is the low voltage 3 or 1.5 on those?) the lower voltage would probably be good too. (where...) Can one still get PCMCIA hard disks that will work in this thing too? I do have a specific and on-topic reason for wanting the flash and SRAM boards. I intend to use the machine as a way of bootstraping a Minix installation for my "Poqet PC," if I can manage it. The Poqet will read linear flash, but not write it, and will read and write SRAM. Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From foo at siconic.com Fri Apr 5 03:28:49 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:05 2005 Subject: OT, but what a relief In-Reply-To: <3CADC501.CD69C3C6@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: On Fri, 5 Apr 2002, Ben Franchuk wrote: > > At 01:55 PM 4/5/2002 +0200, you wrote: > > >Crashed computer boots local man into jail: > > >http://www.wisinfo.com/postcrescent/news/archive/local_3204626.shtml > > >Short story: A shop had five atempts to get a new PC to work, > > >they still failed, so the man took the computer in a 6th time, > > >put it on the floor and smashed it with a sledge hammer. > > >Wisconsin seams to be a place for unusual people. > > > > Uhm, thanks! :-) But it was a computer from Gateway! > > > > - John > > not reading the story ... if he paid for the computer is his to what he > likes with it, not go to jail. I agree, but I guess it's against the law to do this in an impromptu public forum (i.e. the computer shop where he purchased the machine) which is what landed him in trouble. I personally feel that this is a valid form of customer feedback. A bit extreme perhaps, but valid. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Fri Apr 5 11:34:57 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:05 2005 Subject: Software Preservation (was: SIMTEL...) References: <200204051652.IAA22212@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> Message-ID: <3CADE041.1A828F73@jetnet.ab.ca> "Eric J. Korpela" wrote: > > > > I'm becoming convinced that the safest way to preserve software is to > > > keep it on a live filesystem that's frequently backed up, using at > > > least one type of relatively modern storage media - or at least on > > > mylar tape, although that's impractical for large amounts of data (and > > > impractical for me because I haven't acquired a tape punch/reader > > > yet). Any thoughts on this? > > > > I've already become convinced the only practical way to preserve it is onto > > live filesystems that are regularly backed up. > > I agree to this. Fortunately the storage capacity of disks is increasing > rapidly enough that I am able to keep all the files or disk images that I've > ever had with plenty of room for current software. I currently use manual > mirroring, since disks are much cheaper than a tape drive. Give it a year > (or less) and disks will be less expensive than an equivalent tape, much > less a drive. (DLT tapes are $1/GB or so. Big disks with 5 times the capacity > are $1.80/GB.) My next semi permanent backup solution will likely be a > DVD+RW even though that falls far short of the capacity I would desire. > My next step after that is a hot swappable RAID mirror system, swapping a > drive a week, with 4 drives in rotation. > > > found one. My idea is to build a Linux box with EIDE RAID setup to mirror a > > couple BIG EIDE disks (80+ Gigabytes). Then have everything else backup to > > those disks. I've figured out good ways to backup UNIX (rsync), VMS (BACKUP > > to an NFS mounted disk should work), and MacOS (Retrospect can backup via > > FTP). What I've not figured out is a way to backup Windows. > > Windows can mount linux drives via Samba. Just use your favorite windows > backup program to back up to a file on the linux machine. I currently back > up two of my windows machines to the third in this manner. > > Eric But I only have ONE machine with windows. Grrrr -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org Fri Apr 5 12:11:36 2002 From: jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org (James B. DiGriz) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:05 2005 Subject: OT, but what a relief References: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA615014677FA@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> <5.0.0.25.0.20020405071106.02352198@pc> <3CADC501.CD69C3C6@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <3CADE8D8.7000302@dragonsweb.org> Ben Franchuk wrote: > John Foust wrote: > >>At 01:55 PM 4/5/2002 +0200, you wrote: >> >>>Crashed computer boots local man into jail: >>>http://www.wisinfo.com/postcrescent/news/archive/local_3204626.shtml >>>Short story: A shop had five atempts to get a new PC to work, >>>they still failed, so the man took the computer in a 6th time, >>>put it on the floor and smashed it with a sledge hammer. >>>Wisconsin seams to be a place for unusual people. >> >>Uhm, thanks! :-) But it was a computer from Gateway! >> >>- John > > > not reading the story ... if he paid for the computer is his to what he > likes with it, not go to jail. > I know a couple of girls whose daddy once took his TV out on the front lawn and commenced to blast it to smithereens with one a them thar evul shotguns. Concerned neighbors called the law. When they arrived, he declaimed, "It's my damned TV and I can do what I want with it in my own god-damned $@!%# yard!" Since there was no law prohibiting discharge of fireams in that town at that time, there wasn't much they felt inclined to do about it. At least not with him standing there holding a weapon of mass destruction. Now, Pops is an ornery old cuss, and I've had to fight back the temptation to deck him a time or two, which in retrospect was a mistake, fighting it back, I mean, but he might have spent a night or two in jail, at least, if he had taken the set to a TV station to perform his little exorcism. Especially nowadays. The guy in Wisconsin feels it's worth it, and really all he was doing was expressing himself, maybe in a disconcerting way, but he's getting off light, I think. I'll take that as a good sign. jbdigriz From marvin at rain.org Fri Apr 5 12:12:16 2002 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:05 2005 Subject: More "Stuff" References: <3CADEBE9.26639.329C692F@localhost> Message-ID: <3CADE900.F9D1D423@rain.org> In the next several weeks (months?) I'll be paring down the collection of "stuff" that I have no interest in collecting, or I have duplicates of. My tendency is to want to put it on Yahoo with a 3 day auction since evryone would have a chance to see it and decide if they want it. But for right now, I'll just list it here. Everthing is plus shipping/insurance. Generally I prefer to ship via USPS Priority Mail for things that weigh less than 4 pounds since I already have the boxes and it is far easier for me :). For things under 1 pound, Priority Mail is $3.50. $5.00 - Coleco Power Supply for Coleco Vision $5.00 ea - 100 MB SCSI Hard Drives removed from service (approximately 10 left) $5.00 - VTech PreComputer 1000 w/ General Knowledge Cartridge $100.00 - Origins of Digital Computers, Randell. Has papers by Babbage, Zuse, Von Neuman, Aiken, and other pioneers, 2nd Edition, OOP (Out Of Print) $5.00 - TurboGrafx 16 Hucards, "Nerd Blasters" and "R-Type", No way to test them. $5.00 - Odyssey2 w/ power supply, game controls, and "Speedsay, Spin-out, Crypto-logic" cartridge I believe this works, but I haven't tested it to make sure. From doc at mdrconsult.com Fri Apr 5 12:16:47 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:05 2005 Subject: Software Preservation (was: SIMTEL...) In-Reply-To: <3CADE041.1A828F73@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: On Fri, 5 Apr 2002, Ben Franchuk wrote: > > Windows can mount linux drives via Samba. Just use your favorite windows > > backup program to back up to a file on the linux machine. I currently back > > up two of my windows machines to the third in this manner. > > > > Eric > > But I only have ONE machine with windows. Grrrr And this is a problem?! Seriously, I think Eric meant he backs two Windows machines up to one Linux machine. I don't like Windows Backup at all. I tend to go at that backwards; I use smbmount to mount shared Windows drives to the Linux box and back that up with tar. Just don't use the samba smbtar utility. It's a little faster than glacial migration. Doc From rschaefe at gcfn.org Fri Apr 5 12:33:18 2002 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert F Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:05 2005 Subject: PS/2 - E In-Reply-To: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E0178438B@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> References: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E0178438B@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> Message-ID: <64846.128.146.70.118.1018031598.squirrel@www.gcfn.org> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Robert Schaefer [mailto:rschaefe@gcfn.org] > >> It's a neat little toy. I came across the PCMCIA controller >> card for one a >> few weeks ago and ended up finding more about the -e than the >> card itself. >> IIRC the model number is 9533-- put that in the search and >> you should end up >> with some good hits. I just found >> http://www.tavi.co.uk/ps2pages/ohland/9533.html in an old msg >> to myself. If >> it's the one I'm thinking of, it's a good read. > > Thanks. That was informative. It seems the 387 math-co is > "optional," so it's good that I have it. I also think there's some > extra RAM in there. (Above the 4M they claim are on the board) > > Reminds me very much of the intel-based "multia" systems, which > are about the same size, and about as well integrated. > > A related question would be, does anyone know a cheap source of > PCMCIA boards? Specifically, to actually use this thing, I'll want an > ethernet adaptor (10Mb), and probably some linear flash. Some > SRAM that will operate at (is the low voltage 3 or 1.5 on those?) > the lower voltage would probably be good too. > > (where...) Can one still get PCMCIA hard disks that will work in > this thing too? > > I do have a specific and on-topic reason for wanting the flash and SRAM > boards. I intend to use the machine as a way of bootstraping a Minix > installation for my "Poqet PC," if I can manage it. The > Poqet will read linear flash, but not write it, and will read and > write SRAM. I can't help you much there, but it sounds like a fun project, I hope you can get it working. I noticed there is a dutch auction for 5 (IIRC) of these on epay currently, with an opening bid of $50/ea. Too much for me, but I thought I'd pass it along in case anyone else is looking for 'em. The seller claims to have the PCMCIA controllers as well, for an additional $20/ea. :( Reminds me of the local thrift stores-- keyboard, box, monitor, printer all priced seperately (& the same, usually ~$15-$50 each part, but that's a different rant.) > > Chris Bob > > > Christopher Smith, Perl Developer > Amdocs - Champaign, IL > > /usr/bin/perl -e ' > print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); > ' > From geneb at deltasoft.com Fri Apr 5 12:37:33 2002 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:05 2005 Subject: [Way OT] AS/400..... In-Reply-To: <3CADE8D8.7000302@dragonsweb.org> Message-ID: Is there anyone on the list that could either sell me or give me access to an AS/400? I've got a bunch of folks from my corporate HQ feeding me all sorts of odd little excuses and I want to "see for myself" on an AS/400 with RPG IV(?) installed on it. For instance, they make a big deal about me sending a CSV file to them that has quote marks around the data in each field. What's so bloody hard about stripping quotes off of thanks? Hell I could do that before I could tie my own damn shoes. Please reply by direct mail so others aren't even futher disturbed by my plea. :) g. From kentborg at borg.org Fri Apr 5 12:37:53 2002 From: kentborg at borg.org (Kent Borg) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:05 2005 Subject: Software Preservation (was: SIMTEL...) In-Reply-To: <3CADE041.1A828F73@jetnet.ab.ca>; from bfranchuk@jetnet.ab.ca on Fri, Apr 05, 2002 at 10:34:57AM -0700 References: <200204051652.IAA22212@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> <3CADE041.1A828F73@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <20020405133753.G26790@borg.org> Someone wrote in an earlier message: > My idea is to build a Linux box with EIDE RAID setup to mirror a > couple BIG EIDE disks (80+ Gigabytes). Then have everything else > backup to those disks. I recently built a new Linux box with a pair of 60 GB disks (they were the sweet spot that week) in RAID 1, 256 MB RAM, CR-ROM burner, floppy, 850 MHz Duron, plus rudimentary sound, video, and ethernet on the motherboard. The whole thing, with a power supply, a case, and delivered (though in pieces) was under $600. (I already had a monitor, keyboard, mouse, and UPS.) Pretty nice system. I am typing this e-mail on it now, logged in from work. One ~little~ oopsie I just discovered today is that I accidentally made my /home partition RAID 0 instead of RAID 1...but I think I have figured out all the steps needed to change that. If I find myself wanting more space and 100+ GB drives come down in price, I might figure out how to squeeze 4 more disks into that same box as 300+ GB of RAID 5. (Keeping the RAID 1 because it is bootable.) -kb From doc at mdrconsult.com Fri Apr 5 12:45:22 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:05 2005 Subject: Cromemco Docs **free** In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Maybe I wasn't explicit enough with my subject line. :) On Thu, 4 Apr 2002, Doc Shipley wrote: > No, I didn't find a Cromemco. I did find, in a box of stuff that I > thought was all Fortune 32:16 stuff, a loose-leaf binder with 200-300 > pages of Cromemco documentation. > It says on the flyleaf: > > This manual was produced on a > Cromemco model 3355 printer > Using the Cromemco Word > Processing System, > > There is: > > Cromemco Fortran IV Instruction Manual - copyright 1977, 1979 > Part 1 Fortran Reference Manual > Part 2 Fortran User's Manual > > Cromemco Macro Assembler Manual > > Cromemco Macro Assembler Manual Addendum - dated January 1980 > > > It's single-sided printing (not great quality), at a quick glance it > seems to be all there, and it's in excellent condition. > Anybody who can use it pays shipping. > > > Doc > From uban at ubanproductions.com Fri Apr 5 12:42:16 2002 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:05 2005 Subject: can anyone read some punch cards? Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20020405124216.009f6e00@ubanproductions.com> I have a friend who has a few decks of punch cards that he would like to read. Does anyone have this capability who is willing to do it? Thanks in advance... --tom From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Fri Apr 5 12:46:06 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:05 2005 Subject: OT, but what a relief References: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA615014677FA@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> <5.0.0.25.0.20020405071106.02352198@pc> <3CADC501.CD69C3C6@jetnet.ab.ca> <3CADE8D8.7000302@dragonsweb.org> Message-ID: <3CADF0EE.D6018D0A@jetnet.ab.ca> "James B. DiGriz" wrote: > > Ben Franchuk wrote: > > John Foust wrote: > > > >>At 01:55 PM 4/5/2002 +0200, you wrote: > >> > >>>Crashed computer boots local man into jail: > >>>http://www.wisinfo.com/postcrescent/news/archive/local_3204626.shtml > >>>Short story: A shop had five atempts to get a new PC to work, > >>>they still failed, so the man took the computer in a 6th time, > >>>put it on the floor and smashed it with a sledge hammer. > >>>Wisconsin seams to be a place for unusual people. > >> > >>Uhm, thanks! :-) But it was a computer from Gateway! > >> > >>- John > > > > > > not reading the story ... if he paid for the computer is his to what he > > likes with it, not go to jail. > > > > I know a couple of girls whose daddy once took his TV out on the front > lawn and commenced to blast it to smithereens with one a them thar evul > shotguns. Concerned neighbors called the law. When they arrived, he > declaimed, "It's my damned TV and I can do what I want with it in my own > god-damned $@!%# yard!" Since there was no law prohibiting discharge of > fireams in that town at that time, there wasn't much they felt inclined > to do about it. At least not with him standing there holding a weapon of > mass destruction. Now was the computer under warranty at the time.!? Funny I took a hammer to my VCR ( At home ) since I said "give me my tape back or else". It did not listen too well, but I did get my tape OUT. -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Fri Apr 5 12:52:33 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:05 2005 Subject: PS/2 - E In-Reply-To: <64846.128.146.70.118.1018031598.squirrel@www.gcfn.org> Message-ID: <20020405185233.80734.qmail@web20104.mail.yahoo.com> --- Robert F Schaefer wrote: > > A related question would be, does anyone know a cheap source of > > PCMCIA boards? I pick them up at hamfests, etc. I won't pay more than $5/10BaseT ethernet card w/o dongle, but I still have more cards than dongles. > > Specifically, to actually use this thing, I'll want an > > ethernet adaptor (10Mb), and probably some linear flash. Linear FLASH? You mean unlike the ATA cards for cameras? The two kinds of PCMCIA memory cards I'm aware of have two completely different drivers - the cards like you use with an Apple Newton are strictly memory devices. Digital Camera-style ATA FLASH cards look like a disk drive to the OS. Those are common, plentiful and cheap (I picked up some 16Mb cards recently in a sale for $10 each). > > Some SRAM that will operate at (is the low voltage 3 or 1.5 on those?) > > the lower voltage would probably be good too. This is old... I'm pretty sure the PCMCIA is 5V only. > > (where...) Can one still get PCMCIA hard disks that will work in > > this thing too? IBM has things like the "MicroDrive", but modern PCMCIA disks tend to specifically be "CompactFlash Type III" - you can get CF->PCMCIA adapters cheap, but you'll probably have to alter them mechanically to provide clearance for the HDA of a MicroDrive. I do not know the physical height off the top of my head, but the PS-2/E card is "quad type-I, dual type-II" - meaning that if you found an old PCMCIA hard disk that was Type-III, you'd have a mechanical interference problem. Dunno about MicroDrives. > > I do have a specific and on-topic reason for wanting the flash and SRAM > > boards. I intend to use the machine as a way of bootstraping a Minix > > installation for my "Poqet PC," if I can manage it. The > > Poqet will read linear flash, but not write it, and will read and > > write SRAM. There's nothing this board can do that a Linux laptop with PCMCIA slots couldn't also do. It's not magical, just cool. You can also pick up a PCM "Swap Box" for typically under $50 that puts a single Type-II/dual Type-I PCMCIA socket in your ISA-equipped desktop. I've used one under Win95 and Linux to dump CF cards. > I noticed there is a dutch auction for 5 (IIRC) of these on epay > currently, with an opening bid of $50/ea. Ow! Way overpriced. I personally value them at between $10 and $20 for the CPU, plus another $5-$10 for the PCMCIA card, only because they are interesting. Form-factor aside, they are a 16MB 50MHz 386/486. Nothing spectacular. The only thing that makes them interesting is size. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Fri Apr 5 12:51:03 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:05 2005 Subject: Software Preservation (was: SIMTEL...) References: Message-ID: <3CADF217.FC1CC0A2@jetnet.ab.ca> Doc wrote: > > On Fri, 5 Apr 2002, Ben Franchuk wrote: > > > > Windows can mount linux drives via Samba. Just use your favorite windows > > > backup program to back up to a file on the linux machine. I currently back > > > up two of my windows machines to the third in this manner. > > > > > > Eric > > > > But I only have ONE machine with windows. Grrrr > > And this is a problem?! Seriously, I think Eric meant he backs two > Windows machines up to one Linux machine. > I don't like Windows Backup at all. I tend to go at that backwards; I > use smbmount to mount shared Windows drives to the Linux box and back > that up with tar. Just don't use the samba smbtar utility. It's a > little faster than glacial migration. > > I meant I don't have a LINUX box. Just %$%! windows. When I did use linux, I tend to tar the whole HD to a zip disk. This way if I needed to change HD's it was easy. But alas Linux (debian) does not boot from floppies any more, thus rendering it almost as useless as M$. -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From geneb at deltasoft.com Fri Apr 5 12:54:17 2002 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:05 2005 Subject: [Way OT] AS/400..... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > about stripping quotes off of thanks? Hell I could do that before I could *sigh* thanks --> strings. From csmith at amdocs.com Fri Apr 5 12:54:38 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:06 2005 Subject: PS/2 - E Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E01784393@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Robert F Schaefer [mailto:rschaefe@gcfn.org] > I noticed there is a dutch auction for 5 (IIRC) of these on > epay currently, > with an opening bid of $50/ea. Too much for me, but I > thought I'd pass it > along in case anyone else is looking for 'em. The seller > claims to have > the PCMCIA controllers as well, for an additional $20/ea. :( I suppose $Here_I_can't_think_of_anything_to_do_with_this_and_might_end_up_trashing_it is a bargain, then. Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Fri Apr 5 12:58:59 2002 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:06 2005 Subject: 6809 single board computer (was: "New" PDP-8) In-Reply-To: <3CA899C9.12359887@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <3CAE1013.29902.3329AB7A@localhost> > > > Something like the CMU Free6809 board would be great, but I'd > > > prefer to add a CRT coltroller to get a video display. I'd > > > also want a keyboard interface so that the machine could > > > be independent of a terminal. Maybe even a disk interface > > > of some sort, and the AY-3-8910 sound chip, and a parallel > > > port, and... Oh dear, now I'm making it too complicated! > > My SWTP/c contains a third-party board called "the communicator" with a 6845 > > CRTC. Complexity is low : 6845, 2K sram, character generator and around 10 TTL > > IC's. It produces a standard 80x25 output. > > The same board also contains a 6821 to interface to a parallel ouput keyboard. > > The floppy interface of the SWTPc is also rather simple. Speaking of 6800 components: Does anybody still have a 6829 datasheet ? Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 3.0 am 27./28. April 2002 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/ From dquebbeman at acm.org Fri Apr 5 12:59:28 2002 From: dquebbeman at acm.org (Douglas H. Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:06 2005 Subject: OT, but what a relief Message-ID: <001701c1dcd4$0311cc00$e401a8c0@tegjeff.com> > I know a couple of girls whose daddy once took his TV out on the front > lawn and commenced to blast it to smithereens with one a them thar evul > shotguns. Concerned neighbors called the law. When they arrived, he > declaimed, "It's my damned TV and I can do what I want with it in my own > god-damned $@!%# yard!" Since there was no law prohibiting discharge of > fireams in that town at that time, there wasn't much they felt inclined > to do about it. My freshman year in college, I took a double-bladed axe to a 1971 Vega that failed to get me to what might have been the date of dates... it had developed a case of milkshake lubrication (i.e. water leaked into oil)... this after putting a new head gasket on it. Clarksville still lacks am axe ordinance... ;) -Douglas Hurst Quebbeman (DougQ at ixnayamspayIgLou.com) [Call me "Doug"] Surgically excise the pig-latin from my e-mail address in order to reply "The large print giveth, and the small print taketh away." -Tom Waits From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Fri Apr 5 13:06:33 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:06 2005 Subject: should I take RM03's ? In-Reply-To: <15533.17833.740648.732205@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <20020405190633.58129.qmail@web20101.mail.yahoo.com> --- Dave McGuire wrote: > On April 5, Gooijen H wrote: > > I have the oppertunity to drag 2 RM03 massbus drives and > > some packs back home. > > A.K.A. CDC 9762 with a Massbus<->SMD adapter in the bottom.... Sort of. I worked for a DEC reseller in the summer of 1998. He picked up a couple of RM03s cheap and wanted to hook them to one of our PDP-11s through some Emulex or similar SMD interface. The idea was to pull the cables out of the adapter, run them into the Emulex card, and turn an RM03 back into a 9762. The quick answer was we were unable to make it work. We even borrowed some cards from a real 9762 and swapped them into the card cage in the RM03 (the one near the positioner magnet). It didn't help. DEC must have made some change outside of ECOs to the cards that made the drive only work with their Massbus converter. > If you have the space, grab 'em! :-) Agreed. I know that I've been asked for RM03s from folks with KS10s and the like. All of my SMD drives are Fujitsu Eagles and the like. I could _use_ an RM03 if I wanted to, but I'd rather use a lighter, less rare disk than that these days, except for demonstration purposes. If you don't grab them now, you'll probably never see another one later. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Apr 5 13:08:29 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:06 2005 Subject: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New" PDP-8)) In-Reply-To: <3CADC2A4.5060709@internet1.net> Message-ID: > >>I do have one big unused server case, made in the US, by Tandy, for > >>Grid, for the US Government. It does use 6/32. If I ever do use it > >>again, I'll be switching all the screws to "allen" head button type screws. > > > > Whitworth, or BSF? A tough choice. But to help keep it global, at least have them made up to take a metric Allen wrench. But Allen is so boring. There are so many more interesting heads available, such as tri-wing, triple-square, etc. And how about using left-handed threads? That will give pause to those who would consider going into the case. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From doc at mdrconsult.com Fri Apr 5 13:20:05 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:06 2005 Subject: [Way OT] AS/400..... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 5 Apr 2002, Gene Buckle wrote: > Is there anyone on the list that could either sell me or give me access to > an AS/400? Gene, there are a couple of AS/400 in the warehouse where I work. They are the older beige deskside boxes, they look intact, and I can get you the model #s next week. My boss there is a little weird about pricing, so they may run from $.12 to $.50 per pound, depending on his mood. I'm guessing that would top out at a possible $80 or so, plus shipping. There's a box of documentation there that he'll probably throw in. I know nothing at all about AS/400 and don't want to learn, so it's a grab bag from your end. I can and will see if they'll boot to a console if you can provide startup (and shutdown) instructions. I'll run whatever diags are accessible. If you're interested, I'd need you to arrange shipping _before_ I pick it/them up from the shop. I don't mind dealing with it, but I'm totally out of room to store it. Drag that you have to buy equipment and learn an OS just to call your "colleagues" on their crap. Doc From erd_6502 at yahoo.com Fri Apr 5 13:22:01 2002 From: erd_6502 at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:06 2005 Subject: PS/2-E and Linux In-Reply-To: <20020405190633.58129.qmail@web20101.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20020405192201.36426.qmail@web20105.mail.yahoo.com> Since it's come up as a thread and since I ran across the link again, anyone who wants to do real work with a PS-2/E might want to visit here - http://members.aol.com/mcapage0/ps2elinx.htm -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ From zaft at azstarnet.com Fri Apr 5 13:26:02 2002 From: zaft at azstarnet.com (Gordon Zaft) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:06 2005 Subject: 6809 single board computer (was: "New" PDP-8) In-Reply-To: <3CAE1013.29902.3329AB7A@localhost> References: <3CA899C9.12359887@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020405122530.02168290@mail.azstarnet.com> At 08:58 PM 4/5/2002 +0200, you wrote: >Speaking of 6800 components: > >Does anybody still have a 6829 datasheet ? I think I've got one somewhere, but I was never able to actually FIND a 6829. GZ From jcwren at jcwren.com Fri Apr 5 13:26:52 2002 From: jcwren at jcwren.com (John Chris Wren) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:06 2005 Subject: Software Preservation (was: SIMTEL...) In-Reply-To: <20020405133753.G26790@borg.org> Message-ID: No one seems to be addressing the issue that RAID is well and fine to guard against hardware failure, but it will do *nothing* for file system corruption. And even journalling systems like EXT2 and Reiser-FS don't protect against a 'rm -rf *' as root accidently done. From my perspective, there are two types of backups, working and historical. Historical backups should be cut to involatile media. Paper tape (low density, low availability), and CDROM/DVD. CDROMs may delaminate in 100 years, but they're not going to be erase near a magnetic field, are *far* more reliable than any tapes I've ever used (not to mention portable, in terms of filesystems, namely ISO-9660), and reasonable cheap. Downside, of course, is only ~700MB per disc. CDROM drives will be around for a while. Sure, the same was said for QIC-40 tapes, I'm sure, but we're *aware* that we have historical data on CDROM, and as such, a CDROM drive sits on the shelf for future use. DVD drives have much higher density, but cost more. At this point, I might argue the point that media doesn't seem to be quite as portable as CDROM, but I have far less experience with DVDs. Working backups are the current state of your system. They're not designed to be recovered from in 20 years. They're the tapes you make every night/week/month to gaurd against short term file deletes, hardware crashes, and moving to newer/faster/higher density media (like that new 160GB Maxtor we've all been coveting). I don't trust tapes. Never have. *Every* tape system I've ever used in the last 20 years has, at some point or another, generated a tape that can't be read. Be that bad tape design (QIC tapes), poor tape quality, questionable drives, exposure to magnetic fields, whatever, I've had tapes I can't read. And a tape I can't read might as well be a tape I never wrote. One of my favorite and more cost effective ways to backup is to Ghost or 'dd' copy the drive to an identical device, then take that device out of service. Once a week, I copy my 40GB Maxtor to another 40GB Maxtor. Not perfect, since I usually don't take the 2nd drive off-premises, but since I work where I live (or live where I work, depending on how you look at it), it doesn't get a lot of chance to travel. That's my fault. 40GB of infinitely reusable backup media (for medium sized values of infinite) for < $100 isn't bad. That's the same as 5 DVD platters, and it won't wear out anywhere near as quick. Everyone has a favorite backup scheme. At least, for those people that actually *do* backups. These are just my opinions on a method that has worked well for me. --John > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Kent Borg > Sent: Friday, April 05, 2002 13:38 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Software Preservation (was: SIMTEL...) > > > Someone wrote in an earlier message: > > My idea is to build a Linux box with EIDE RAID setup to mirror a > > couple BIG EIDE disks (80+ Gigabytes). Then have everything else > > backup to those disks. > > I recently built a new Linux box with a pair of 60 GB disks (they were > the sweet spot that week) in RAID 1, 256 MB RAM, CR-ROM burner, floppy, > 850 MHz Duron, plus rudimentary sound, video, and ethernet on the > motherboard. > > The whole thing, with a power supply, a case, and delivered (though in > pieces) was under $600. (I already had a monitor, keyboard, mouse, > and UPS.) Pretty nice system. I am typing this e-mail on it now, > logged in from work. > > One ~little~ oopsie I just discovered today is that I accidentally > made my /home partition RAID 0 instead of RAID 1...but I think I have > figured out all the steps needed to change that. > > If I find myself wanting more space and 100+ GB drives come down in > price, I might figure out how to squeeze 4 more disks into that same > box as 300+ GB of RAID 5. (Keeping the RAID 1 because it is > bootable.) > > -kb From doc at mdrconsult.com Fri Apr 5 13:31:06 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:06 2005 Subject: Software Preservation (was: SIMTEL...) In-Reply-To: <3CADF217.FC1CC0A2@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: On Fri, 5 Apr 2002, Ben Franchuk wrote: > I meant I don't have a LINUX box. Just %$%! windows. When I did use > linux, > I tend to tar the whole HD to a zip disk. This way if I needed to change > HD's > it was easy. But alas Linux (debian) does not boot from floppies any > more, thus rendering it almost as useless as M$. Huh!?!? I beg to disagree, sir. It boots off a LOT of floppies. Six, on x86. ftp://ftp.debian.org/debian/dists/stable/main/disks-i386/current although I prefer woody myself: ftp://ftp.debian.org/debian/dists/woody/main/disks-i386/current Plus, AFAIK, Deb is the only one left that allows install and upgrade by modem. Doc From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Apr 5 13:31:39 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:06 2005 Subject: OT, but what a relief In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 5 Apr 2002, John Chris Wren wrote: > Why not read the story, instead? Because my web-browser is not on the same machine as my e-mail. Netscrape/Internet Exploiter seem to want at least 386, and Lynx doesn't handle frames and the rest of the modern crap very well. > > not reading the story ... if he paid for the computer is his to what he > > likes with it, not go to jail. There could be a few more factors, such as where he smashed it, if not on his own property, and whether any of the store staff were holding the machine when he smashed it, etc. From jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org Fri Apr 5 13:35:23 2002 From: jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org (James B. DiGriz) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:06 2005 Subject: OT, but what a relief References: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA615014677FA@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> <5.0.0.25.0.20020405071106.02352198@pc> <3CADC501.CD69C3C6@jetnet.ab.ca> <3CADE8D8.7000302@dragonsweb.org> <3CADF0EE.D6018D0A@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <3CADFC7B.4080205@dragonsweb.org> Ben Franchuk wrote: > > > Now was the computer under warranty at the time.!? > Funny I took a hammer to my VCR ( At home ) since I said "give me my > tape back > or else". It did not listen too well, but I did get my tape OUT. > I don't think it is anymore, unless Gateway wants to take advantage of the opportunity to offset bad PR. The TV was working fine. It was working only too well, as far as Pops was concerned. :-) I know the feeling. jbdigriz From csmith at amdocs.com Fri Apr 5 13:36:47 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:06 2005 Subject: PS/2 - E Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E01784395@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Ethan Dicks [mailto:erd_6502@yahoo.com] > > > Specifically, to actually use this thing, I'll want an > > > ethernet adaptor (10Mb), and probably some linear flash. > Linear FLASH? You mean unlike the ATA cards for cameras? The two > kinds of PCMCIA memory cards I'm aware of have two completely > different Now you've made me go and look it up ;) >From the Poqet PC FAQ: http://bmason.best.vwh.net/PoqetPC/faq.html What kind of Flash cards can I used in the Poqet PC? There are two kinds of flash cards. The Poqet PC can read from, but not write to, "linear" flash cards (sometimes called "Intel" flash) cards. These flash cards must be formatted and programmed with the "pseudo-floppy" format on another computer, and then they function as ROM disks in the Poqet PC. "SanDisk" flash cards, named after the company that produces them (SanDisk corporation was known as "SunDisk" until mid 1995), are commonly available for other palmtop computers like the HP 95/100/ 200LX. SanDisk flash cards cannot be used in the Poqet PC. ------ In other words, yes... "linear" flash. :) > drivers - the cards like you use with an Apple Newton are strictly > memory devices. Digital Camera-style ATA FLASH cards look like a > disk drive to the OS. Those are common, plentiful and cheap (I > picked up some 16Mb cards recently in a sale for $10 each). Last I checked, the price per MB on linear flash was just slightly higher than the more common stuff. (I think) > > > Some SRAM that will operate at (is the low voltage 3 or > 1.5 on those?) > > > the lower voltage would probably be good too. > This is old... I'm pretty sure the PCMCIA is 5V only. Again from the FAQ: What kind of PCMCIA cards can I use in my Poqet PC? The PCMCIA slots in the Poqet PC actually predate the PCMCIA specification. The slots are generally compatible with Revision 1.0 of the PCMCIA spec. The Poqet's PCMCIA slots have a Type I (2.5 mm) thickness. Generally, the only thing that can be put into the Poqet PC are SRAM cards, which can be formatted on the Poqet PC for use as RAM disks. The Poqet PC does not read the Card Information Structure (CIS) on SRAM cards to determine the proper format, but instead uses a uses a "pseudo-floppy" format. Generally cards formatted on a Poqet PC can be read by other computers, but cards formatted on other computers may have to be reformatted before being used on the Poqet PC. To work in the Poqet PC, SRAM cards must be PCMCIA Revision 1.0 compatible and must be able to operate at 3 volts. As far as memory cards are concerned, however, there isn't much difference between PCMCIA 2.0 and 1.0, so Rev. 2.0 memory cards should work fine. The 3 volt requirement arises because, as the alkaline batteries in the Poqet PC die, the system voltage can dip down to the 3 volt level. If your PCMCIA cards operate only at 5 volts, then you could lose data as your batteries die. One thing to remember is that all SRAM cards will retain data at 3 volts. To work in the Poqet PC, the SRAM cards must operate (read and write data) at 3 volts. ----- 3 volts, definitely. > IBM has things like the "MicroDrive", but modern PCMCIA disks tend > to specifically be "CompactFlash Type III" - you can get CF->PCMCIA > adapters cheap, but you'll probably have to alter them mechanically > to provide clearance for the HDA of a MicroDrive. I do not know > the physical height off the top of my head, but the PS-2/E card is > "quad type-I, dual type-II" - meaning that if you found an old > PCMCIA hard disk that was Type-III, you'd have a mechanical > interference > problem. Dunno about MicroDrives. Actually, I was just looking for some older "type 2" PCMCIA disks, perhaps used. > There's nothing this board can do that a Linux laptop with PCMCIA > slots couldn't also do. It's not magical, just cool. You can also True, but Linux didn't like my laptop much last I tried, nor did NetBSD. Right now it's running Eth's "PC Native Oberon," and is perfectly happy, but I don't think Oberon will drive its PCMCIA slots, and I don't have much breathing room on that system anyway, even though the full install of Oberon is probably smaller than that of DOS on the same system. > pick up a PCM "Swap Box" for typically under $50 that puts a single > Type-II/dual Type-I PCMCIA socket in your ISA-equipped desktop. I've > used one under Win95 and Linux to dump CF cards. Ok, but since this system has just fallen into my lap, why not use it? :) > Nothing spectacular. The only thing that makes them interesting is > size. Again, similar to the Multia in that respect. Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Apr 5 13:40:15 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:06 2005 Subject: OT, but what a relief In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 5 Apr 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote: > I agree, but I guess it's against the law to do this in an impromptu > public forum (i.e. the computer shop where he purchased the machine) which > is what landed him in trouble. A number of years ago, a guy burned a cardboard sculpture on the sidewalk in front of the whitehouse. The cops arrested him for "arson", and a representative (my brother) from the US attorney's office had to explain to them that it did NOT qualify as "arson" and that they'd have to figure out a different charge. > I personally feel that this is a valid form of customer feedback. A bit > extreme perhaps, but valid. for Gateway, maybe not extreme enough From dquebbeman at acm.org Fri Apr 5 13:40:42 2002 From: dquebbeman at acm.org (Douglas H. Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:06 2005 Subject: can anyone read some punch cards? Message-ID: <001f01c1dcd9$ceaf1840$e401a8c0@tegjeff.com> > I have a friend who has a few decks of punch cards that he would > like to read. Does anyone have this capability who is willing to > do it? I don't think he's subbed to the list, but if Paul Pierce can read 7-track tapes (he can), I'm betting he can read unit records, too: http://www.piercefuller.com/collect hth, -dq -Douglas Hurst Quebbeman (DougQ at ixnayamspayIgLou.com) [Call me "Doug"] Surgically excise the pig-latin from my e-mail address in order to reply "The large print giveth, and the small print taketh away." -Tom Waits From dquebbeman at acm.org Fri Apr 5 13:43:15 2002 From: dquebbeman at acm.org (Douglas H. Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:06 2005 Subject: "Re: 6809 single board computer (was: "New" PDP-8)" Message-ID: <002701c1dcda$2a86c0a0$e401a8c0@tegjeff.com> > Speaking of 6800 components: > > Does anybody still have a 6829 datasheet ? When I get home, I'll see if I can scrape enough mold off of it to read it... -dq -Douglas Hurst Quebbeman (DougQ at ixnayamspayIgLou.com) [Call me "Doug"] Surgically excise the pig-latin from my e-mail address in order to reply "The large print giveth, and the small print taketh away." -Tom Waits From doc at mdrconsult.com Fri Apr 5 13:47:41 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:06 2005 Subject: Cromemco Docs **free** In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Works everytime. The docs have been claimed. On Fri, 5 Apr 2002, Doc wrote: > Maybe I wasn't explicit enough with my subject line. :) > > On Thu, 4 Apr 2002, Doc Shipley wrote: > > > No, I didn't find a Cromemco. I did find, in a box of stuff that I > > thought was all Fortune 32:16 stuff, a loose-leaf binder with 200-300 > > pages of Cromemco documentation. > > It says on the flyleaf: > > > > This manual was produced on a > > Cromemco model 3355 printer > > Using the Cromemco Word > > Processing System, > > > > There is: > > > > Cromemco Fortran IV Instruction Manual - copyright 1977, 1979 > > Part 1 Fortran Reference Manual > > Part 2 Fortran User's Manual > > > > Cromemco Macro Assembler Manual > > > > Cromemco Macro Assembler Manual Addendum - dated January 1980 > > > > > > It's single-sided printing (not great quality), at a quick glance it > > seems to be all there, and it's in excellent condition. > > Anybody who can use it pays shipping. > > > > > > Doc > > > From doc at mdrconsult.com Fri Apr 5 13:49:54 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:06 2005 Subject: [Way OT] AS/400..... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Drat. That was supposed to be off-list. Sorry, y'all. Doc From doc at mdrconsult.com Fri Apr 5 13:56:39 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:06 2005 Subject: Software Preservation (was: SIMTEL...) In-Reply-To: <3CADF217.FC1CC0A2@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: On Fri, 5 Apr 2002, Ben Franchuk wrote: > I meant I don't have a LINUX box. Just %$%! windows. When I did use > linux, > I tend to tar the whole HD to a zip disk. This way if I needed to change > HD's > it was easy. But alas Linux (debian) does not boot from floppies any > more, thus rendering it almost as useless as M$. Rereading this, I may have misunderstood yet again. Did you mean you want the entire OS on a floppy? Have you tried Tom's RootBoot? It's an amazingly complete distribution on one floppy. Then there are several CD-based distros.... Doc From jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org Fri Apr 5 14:07:31 2002 From: jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org (James B. DiGriz) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:06 2005 Subject: OT, but what a relief References: <001701c1dcd4$0311cc00$e401a8c0@tegjeff.com> Message-ID: <3CAE0403.7080009@dragonsweb.org> Douglas H. Quebbeman wrote: >>I know a couple of girls whose daddy once took his TV out on the front >>lawn and commenced to blast it to smithereens with one a them thar evul >>shotguns. Concerned neighbors called the law. When they arrived, he >>declaimed, "It's my damned TV and I can do what I want with it in my own >>god-damned $@!%# yard!" Since there was no law prohibiting discharge of >>fireams in that town at that time, there wasn't much they felt inclined >>to do about it. > > > My freshman year in college, I took a double-bladed axe to a > 1971 Vega that failed to get me to what might have been the > date of dates... it had developed a case of milkshake lubrication > (i.e. water leaked into oil)... this after putting a new head > gasket on it. > > Clarksville still lacks am axe ordinance... ;) > > > -Douglas Hurst Quebbeman (DougQ at ixnayamspayIgLou.com) [Call me "Doug"] > Surgically excise the pig-latin from my e-mail address in order to reply > "The large print giveth, and the small print taketh away." -Tom Waits > > Axe, eh? Funny you should mention that. Speaking of malicious gossip. Let's just say if you come between sisters and wake up the ol' green-eyed monster, be prepared for the consequences. You might as well enjoy yourself while you can, though, cause you're sure as hell gonna pay for it, whether you do or not. All this car talk keeps reminding me I need to fix my truck so I can haul old computers and stuff. 77' Dodge with a 318, worn cam bushings, maybe bent camshaft. Timing jumps all over the place, even with new distributor, chain, and gears. Bottom end is tight, and compression is good, but I think I'll go through it completely anyway. jbdigriz From Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com Fri Apr 5 14:08:14 2002 From: Robert_Feldman at jdedwards.com (Feldman, Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:06 2005 Subject: PS/2 - E Message-ID: This all depends on which model Poqet you have. The information on Brian's site applies to the first two models, the "Classic" (PQ-0164) and the "Prime" (PQ-0181). The last model, the "Plus", _can_ use SanDisk Flash cards up to at least 110MB. See http://www.olagrande.net/~webguy/service/poqet.html#Useful. It can also handle certain PCMCIA modems, which the Classic and Prime cannot. Bob -----Original Message----- From: Christopher Smith [mailto:csmith@amdocs.com] Sent: Friday, April 05, 2002 1:37 PM To: 'classiccmp@classiccmp.org' Subject: RE: PS/2 - E > -----Original Message----- > From: Ethan Dicks [mailto:erd_6502@yahoo.com] > > > Specifically, to actually use this thing, I'll want an > > > ethernet adaptor (10Mb), and probably some linear flash. > Linear FLASH? You mean unlike the ATA cards for cameras? The two > kinds of PCMCIA memory cards I'm aware of have two completely > different Now you've made me go and look it up ;) >From the Poqet PC FAQ: http://bmason.best.vwh.net/PoqetPC/faq.html What kind of Flash cards can I used in the Poqet PC? There are two kinds of flash cards. The Poqet PC can read from, but not write to, "linear" flash cards (sometimes called "Intel" flash) cards. These flash cards must be formatted and programmed with the "pseudo-floppy" format on another computer, and then they function as ROM disks in the Poqet PC. "SanDisk" flash cards, named after the company that produces them (SanDisk corporation was known as "SunDisk" until mid 1995), are commonly available for other palmtop computers like the HP 95/100/ 200LX. SanDisk flash cards cannot be used in the Poqet PC. ------ In other words, yes... "linear" flash. :) From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Fri Apr 5 14:10:29 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:06 2005 Subject: Software Preservation (was: SIMTEL...) References: Message-ID: <3CAE04B5.D70D1CBE@jetnet.ab.ca> Doc wrote: > I beg to disagree, sir. It boots off a LOT of floppies. Six, on x86. > > ftp://ftp.debian.org/debian/dists/stable/main/disks-i386/current > > although I prefer woody myself: > > ftp://ftp.debian.org/debian/dists/woody/main/disks-i386/current > > Plus, AFAIK, Deb is the only one left that allows install and upgrade > by modem. > No It is the recovery disk ( Stupid name ) that is the problem. I used debian 2.0 for my system maintenance. I could shell to a command line and maintain the system. The stupid thing is NOBODY has tar on the system disk. The one thing about dos and few other OS's is that you could use a floppy to maintain the system even if you had a hard drive. I really wish linux was as easy to add drivers as msdos was. I really think computer arctecture is going a step backwards as you have no control over your data, it seems to be owned by M$ or the hardware companies! -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From fernande at internet1.net Fri Apr 5 14:14:54 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:06 2005 Subject: OT, but what a relief References: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA615014677FA@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> <5.0.0.25.0.20020405071106.02352198@pc> <3CADC501.CD69C3C6@jetnet.ab.ca> <3CADE8D8.7000302@dragonsweb.org> Message-ID: <3CAE05BE.20805@internet1.net> A gun isn't exactly a weapon of mass destruction.... it's pretty localized. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA James B. DiGriz wrote: > At least not with him standing there holding a weapon of > mass destruction. From jeff.kaneko at juno.com Fri Apr 5 16:09:04 2002 From: jeff.kaneko at juno.com (jeff.kaneko@juno.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:06 2005 Subject: Someone need a copy of Jensen-Wirth? Message-ID: <20020405.140905.-226035.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> A copy of the 2nd Ed just fell into my lap. LMK if anyone needs this. Jeff ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. From jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org Fri Apr 5 14:32:50 2002 From: jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org (James B. DiGriz) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:06 2005 Subject: OT, but what a relief References: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA615014677FA@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> <5.0.0.25.0.20020405071106.02352198@pc> <3CADC501.CD69C3C6@jetnet.ab.ca> <3CADE8D8.7000302@dragonsweb.org> <3CAE05BE.20805@internet1.net> Message-ID: <3CAE09F2.9070901@dragonsweb.org> Chad Fernandez wrote: > A gun isn't exactly a weapon of mass destruction.... it's pretty localized. > > Chad Fernandez > Michigan, USA > > James B. DiGriz wrote: > >> At least not with him standing there holding a weapon of mass >> destruction. > > > I felt maybe ol' "molten iron" Erlacher would appreciate the hyperbole. :-) jbdigriz From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Fri Apr 5 14:44:47 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:06 2005 Subject: Software Preservation (was: SIMTEL...) References: Message-ID: <3CAE0CBF.8F38B397@jetnet.ab.ca> Doc wrote: > > On Fri, 5 Apr 2002, Ben Franchuk wrote: > > > I meant I don't have a LINUX box. Just %$%! windows. When I did use > > linux, > > I tend to tar the whole HD to a zip disk. This way if I needed to change > > HD's > > it was easy. But alas Linux (debian) does not boot from floppies any > > more, thus rendering it almost as useless as M$. > > Rereading this, I may have misunderstood yet again. Did you mean you > want the entire OS on a floppy? > Have you tried Tom's RootBoot? It's an amazingly complete > distribution on one floppy. > Then there are several CD-based distros.... > > Doc No ! I want to back my windows system. I don't want CRAP to do simple things like 1) backup my system 2) replace hardware 3) process information. 4) Play games. see OS/9 for how to write a real OS. -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Apr 5 14:48:10 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:06 2005 Subject: can anyone read some punch cards? In-Reply-To: <001f01c1dcd9$ceaf1840$e401a8c0@tegjeff.com> Message-ID: >> I have a friend who has a few decks of punch cards that he would >> like to read. Does anyone have this capability who is willing to >> do it? > >I don't think he's subbed to the list, but if Paul Pierce >can read 7-track tapes (he can), I'm betting he can read >unit records, too: > > >http://www.piercefuller.com/collect I know Jim Willing could before he moved to Kansas. Paul Pierce definitly has card readers, but I don't know if he's setup to read decks, I assume he is. I'm a little shocked to hear he can read 7-Track tapes though. I've got a reader, I just don't have an interface. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org Fri Apr 5 14:57:13 2002 From: jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org (James B. DiGriz) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:06 2005 Subject: Computers Manufactured in 1986^H^H56 References: <200204042037.VAA06791@citadel.metropolis.local> Message-ID: <3CAE0FA9.2010405@dragonsweb.org> Stan Barr wrote: > > It wouldn't surprise me. Manchester University were early pioneers in > semiconducer applications. Ferranti were closely associated with them, > and Ferranti were heavily involved in military and aviation work. > > See: http://www.science.uva.nl/faculteit/museum/biganalog.html > I found that link the other day, and I'm trying to figure out how the machine worked. I'm thinking the "synthetic gimbals" are used to generate a resultant (hydraulic pressure, it looks like) from aerodynamic forces on wings and control surfaces simulated by multiple hydraulic circuits. The electronics would basically be mediating controls and switchgear for the pumps, and not do any computation proper, or at least not arithmetical computation. I could be wrong, in fact I could be way off base, and I welcome correction, but this is actually appears to be a mechanical, or hydraulic, analog computer. Still very impressive. > Ferranti were limited to convential alloy drift germanium transistors as > they couldn't persuade anyone to manufacture ones designed for digital > use. The Atlas used OC170s, which were designed for radio use, running > at 10MHz IIRC. Floating point multiply in 4.97 microseconds which was > pretty quick at the time! > > I dismantled a Ferranti board circa 1962/3 to recover the transistors... > wish I'd kept the board now ;-( > Somewhere around here I have the remains of a GE intercom kit from that era (62/63) with some of their first general purpose (I think) germanium transistors. jbdigriz From dquebbeman at acm.org Fri Apr 5 15:04:27 2002 From: dquebbeman at acm.org (Douglas H. Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:06 2005 Subject: ClassicCmp Transportation Message-ID: <000701c1dce5$796d9210$e401a8c0@tegjeff.com> > All this car talk keeps reminding me I need to fix my truck so I can > haul old computers and stuff. 77' Dodge with a 318, worn cam bushings, > maybe bent camshaft. Timing jumps all over the place, even with new > distributor, chain, and gears. Bottom end is tight, and compression is > good, but I think I'll go through it completely anyway. Good segue back on topic... What's the least expensive, semi-reliable transportation for hauling Classic Computers? What I mean is, something that might be a tad flaky starting up, but once running, is unlikely to suffer mechanical failure in places where your license plates might as well be from a foreign country? Clearly, my Audi 80 sedan is useless except for the occasional Apple //e or somesuch teeney weeney computers. I used to have a 64 Chevy pickup, should still have it. Is such transport possible for circa US$750.00? -dq -Douglas Hurst Quebbeman (DougQ at ixnayamspayIgLou.com) [Call me "Doug"] Surgically excise the pig-latin from my e-mail address in order to reply "The large print giveth, and the small print taketh away." -Tom Waits From csmith at amdocs.com Fri Apr 5 15:18:16 2002 From: csmith at amdocs.com (Christopher Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:06 2005 Subject: PS/2 - E Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E0178439B@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Feldman, Robert [mailto:Robert_Feldman@jdedwards.com] > This all depends on which model Poqet you have. The > information on Brian's > site applies to the first two models, the "Classic" (PQ-0164) and the > "Prime" (PQ-0181). The last model, the "Plus", _can_ use > SanDisk Flash cards > up to at least 110MB. See > http://www.olagrande.net/~webguy/service/poqet.html#Useful. > It can also > handle certain PCMCIA modems, which the Classic and Prime cannot. Right. Mine is a "Classic." Chris Christopher Smith, Perl Developer Amdocs - Champaign, IL /usr/bin/perl -e ' print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n"); ' From lemay at cs.umn.edu Fri Apr 5 15:21:21 2002 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:06 2005 Subject: have Rl01, want RK05 Message-ID: <200204052121.PAA00284@caesar.cs.umn.edu> Subject sums it up. I have a RL01 drive, I need a RK05 drive, and I dont have space for both. If anyone plans on being in the Minneapolis region someday and wants to make a swap, just let me know. -Lawrence LeMay lemay@cs.umn.edu From DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu Fri Apr 5 15:29:55 2002 From: DAW at yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu (David Woyciesjes) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:06 2005 Subject: ClassicCmp Transportation Message-ID: <9011A52E011ED311B4280004AC1BA6150146780A@yalepress3.unipress.yale.edu> > From: Douglas H. Quebbeman > > What's the least expensive, semi-reliable transportation for > hauling Classic Computers? > > What I mean is, something that might be a tad flaky starting > up, but once running, is unlikely to suffer mechanical > failure in places where your license plates might as well be > from a foreign country? > > Clearly, my Audi 80 sedan is useless except for the occasional > Apple //e or somesuch teeney weeney computers. > > I used to have a 64 Chevy pickup, should still have it. > > Is such transport possible for circa US$750.00? > > -dq > -- I would say a decent cheap transport would be any older 2 wheel drive Chevy pick-up. Either the S-10 or full-size C-10 (hint: the C series is 2WD The K's are 4WD). They're a dime a dozen, and well built too. You should be able to find at least 12 of each in any decent size vehicle bone-yard. Not to mention the fact that you can get cheap lumber to build a rack body for the back if you need to... --- David A Woyciesjes --- C & IS Support Specialist --- Yale University Press --- mailto:david.woyciesjes@yale.edu --- (203) 432-0953 --- ICQ # - 905818 Mac OS X 10.1.2 - Darwin Kernel Version 5.2: Fri Dec 7 21:39:35 PST 2001 Running since 01/22/2002 without a crash From stanb at dial.pipex.com Fri Apr 5 06:25:29 2002 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:06 2005 Subject: Software Preservation (was: SIMTEL...) In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 04 Apr 2002 22:47:03 -0800." <20020405064703.68901.qmail@web11808.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200204051225.NAA09857@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, Loboyko Steve said: > I have a paper tape punch that does Mylar. too bad the > density is so low and the cost of Mylar is so high! I > too worry about preserving this type of history. I've > been playing with my PDP-8 and its software, and I > wonder what the oldest existing program that actually > runs might be... Don't know about PDP-8 programs, but a copy of a program to print squares, by M.V.Wilkes, May 1949 is available for the EDSAC emulator...could this be the oldest surviving computer program? (Of course, the operating sustem - or Initial Orders as it was known - is older.) -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From doc at mdrconsult.com Fri Apr 5 15:32:50 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:06 2005 Subject: ClassicCmp Transportation In-Reply-To: <000701c1dce5$796d9210$e401a8c0@tegjeff.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 5 Apr 2002, Douglas H. Quebbeman wrote: > What's the least expensive, semi-reliable transportation for > hauling Classic Computers? > > What I mean is, something that might be a tad flaky starting > up, but once running, is unlikely to suffer mechanical > failure in places where your license plates might as well be > from a foreign country? Well, my little brother, after trying for years to kill it off, has promised me his '91 Ford F150. It's a straight-6 standard, is about to wear out the second clutch, has stranded him once when the drive shaft split at the weld (he'd known it was bent for a month, aka "his own damn fault") in '96. He takes very good care of it, but has never had the valve covers off. The kicker? It's on its fourth trip around the odometer. 329,000+ miles, and I wouldn't hesitate to take off for Anchorage in it. Plus, it's on-topic. Price - free to me. Probably worth $600-$800 in Texas. As they say, Your Mileage May Vary. Doc From jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org Fri Apr 5 15:35:47 2002 From: jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org (James B. DiGriz) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:06 2005 Subject: ClassicCmp Transportation References: <000701c1dce5$796d9210$e401a8c0@tegjeff.com> Message-ID: <3CAE18B3.7010807@dragonsweb.org> Douglas H. Quebbeman wrote: >>All this car talk keeps reminding me I need to fix my truck so I can >>haul old computers and stuff. 77' Dodge with a 318, worn cam bushings, >>maybe bent camshaft. Timing jumps all over the place, even with new >>distributor, chain, and gears. Bottom end is tight, and compression is >>good, but I think I'll go through it completely anyway. > > > Good segue back on topic... > > What's the least expensive, semi-reliable transportation for > hauling Classic Computers? > > What I mean is, something that might be a tad flaky starting > up, but once running, is unlikely to suffer mechanical > failure in places where your license plates might as well be > from a foreign country? > > Clearly, my Audi 80 sedan is useless except for the occasional > Apple //e or somesuch teeney weeney computers. > > I used to have a 64 Chevy pickup, should still have it. > > Is such transport possible for circa US$750.00? > > -dq > > > -Douglas Hurst Quebbeman (DougQ at ixnayamspayIgLou.com) [Call me "Doug"] > Surgically excise the pig-latin from my e-mail address in order to reply > "The large print giveth, and the small print taketh away." -Tom Waits > > If you're transporting large, rack-mounted equipment or pallet-loads with any frequency, I'd say go with about a 20' box van with a lift-gate. 2nd choice would be something like an old bread truck, aka UPS truck. Be sure to carry a ramp. You're not likely to find something like that for $750 that doesn't need work, but what else is new? The hassles and time a vehicle like this will save translate into dollars. jbdigriz From edick at idcomm.com Fri Apr 5 15:49:13 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:06 2005 Subject: 6809 single board computer (was: "New" PDP-8) References: <3CA899C9.12359887@jetnet.ab.ca> <4.3.2.7.2.20020405122530.02168290@mail.azstarnet.com> Message-ID: <003001c1dceb$ba3a6920$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> There's a datasheet in this databook I've been using to level the table. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gordon Zaft" To: Sent: Friday, April 05, 2002 12:26 PM Subject: Re: 6809 single board computer (was: "New" PDP-8) > At 08:58 PM 4/5/2002 +0200, you wrote: > >Speaking of 6800 components: > > > >Does anybody still have a 6829 datasheet ? > > I think I've got one somewhere, but I was never able to actually > FIND a 6829. > > GZ > > From pcw at mesanet.com Fri Apr 5 15:49:42 2002 From: pcw at mesanet.com (Peter C. Wallace) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:06 2005 Subject: Free for shipping costs: 2 Localtalk ISA cards Message-ID: Brand new (brand old?) in box w/software 2 Farallon ISA bus local talk cards (1990) They have (If the picture on the box is correct) 1 6502 1 Z8530 1 8kx8 RAM 1 ROM in socket + ISA bus interface and Appletalk diff drv/rec Peter Wallace From jhking at airmail.net Fri Apr 5 15:55:44 2002 From: jhking at airmail.net (Jason King) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:06 2005 Subject: GEM-OS References: <200204050731.g357V3f65751@ns2.ezwind.net> Message-ID: <3CAE1D5F.F0812A87@airmail.net> > > > Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 15:36:04 -0800 (PST) > From: Cameron Kaiser > Subject: Re: GEM OS was: CP/M and Imsai > > > I've asked this before, but how close is the Commodore GEOS to the Gem > > one ? The desktop at least is virtually identical. > > I don't think it is, myself. Berkeley Softworks supposedly modeled it on the > Macintosh. > > > Does it have an underlying > > system greatly different from TOS and AES(?) ? > > Not knowing much about the internals of TOS ... > In Geos the whole OS was coded in 6502 assembler. Couldn't make an 8bit gui work with slowpokes like C. GEM and TOS (as I understand) were partly host assembler (8088 or 68000) and part c. No commonality under the hood at all. From mcguire at neurotica.com Fri Apr 5 15:56:37 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:06 2005 Subject: should I take RM03's ? In-Reply-To: Re: should I take RM03's ? (Ethan Dicks) References: <15533.17833.740648.732205@phaduka.neurotica.com> <20020405190633.58129.qmail@web20101.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <15534.7573.275483.364100@phaduka.neurotica.com> On April 5, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > A.K.A. CDC 9762 with a Massbus<->SMD adapter in the bottom.... > > Sort of. I worked for a DEC reseller in the summer of 1998. He > picked up a couple of RM03s cheap and wanted to hook them to one > of our PDP-11s through some Emulex or similar SMD interface. The > idea was to pull the cables out of the adapter, run them into the > Emulex card, and turn an RM03 back into a 9762. > > The quick answer was we were unable to make it work. We even borrowed > some cards from a real 9762 and swapped them into the card cage in the > RM03 (the one near the positioner magnet). It didn't help. > > DEC must have made some change outside of ECOs to the cards that > made the drive only work with their Massbus converter. Weird...I dunno about the RM03, but I ran an RM02 on a Dataram Qbus SMD controller (I don't recall the model number) many years ago in an 11/73. It worked fine. I thought the only big difference between the RM02 and the RM03 was the spindle speed, though. -Dave -- Dave McGuire "I thought it would go quickly, St. Petersburg, FL that rubberized bottom..." -Sridhar From dpeschel at eskimo.com Fri Apr 5 16:23:50 2002 From: dpeschel at eskimo.com (Derek Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:06 2005 Subject: Software Preservation (was: SIMTEL...) In-Reply-To: <200204051225.NAA09857@citadel.metropolis.local>; from stanb@dial.pipex.com on Fri, Apr 05, 2002 at 01:25:29PM +0100 References: <20020405064703.68901.qmail@web11808.mail.yahoo.com> <200204051225.NAA09857@citadel.metropolis.local> Message-ID: <20020405142350.A10199@eskimo.eskimo.com> On Fri, Apr 05, 2002 at 01:25:29PM +0100, Stan Barr wrote: > Don't know about PDP-8 programs, but a copy of a program > to print squares, by M.V.Wilkes, May 1949 is available > for the EDSAC emulator...could this be the oldest surviving > computer program? (Of course, the operating sustem - or > Initial Orders as it was known - is older.) I thought the squares program was lost and had to be reconstructed. Also, I'd call the Initial Orders more of an assembler/loader than an OS, since it didn't incldue any subroutines you could use for things like I/O. Eventually they added a library of I/O and math subroutines, some utilities (mostly for debugging), and a fancier version of the Initial Orders that allowed you to decide at load time where subroutines should go. But you still had to decide what subroutines to use and copy them to your input tape. The tic-tac-toe (noughts and crosses) program is undoubtedly one of the oldest computer games. -- Derek From curt at atarimuseum.com Fri Apr 5 16:31:55 2002 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:06 2005 Subject: GEM-OS References: <200204050731.g357V3f65751@ns2.ezwind.net> <3CAE1D5F.F0812A87@airmail.net> Message-ID: <000b01c1dcf1$b3228ea0$0a00a8c0@cvendel> Don't forget Diamond which is a GEM TOS "look-alike" version designed for the Atari 8bits which original came on disk and then came on Super Cartridge format. Designed by Reevesoft. Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jason King" To: Sent: Friday, April 05, 2002 4:55 PM Subject: GEM-OS > > > > > > Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 15:36:04 -0800 (PST) > > From: Cameron Kaiser > > Subject: Re: GEM OS was: CP/M and Imsai > > > > > I've asked this before, but how close is the Commodore GEOS to the Gem > > > one ? The desktop at least is virtually identical. > > > > I don't think it is, myself. Berkeley Softworks supposedly modeled it on the > > Macintosh. > > > > > Does it have an underlying > > > system greatly different from TOS and AES(?) ? > > > > Not knowing much about the internals of TOS ... > > > > In Geos the whole OS was coded in 6502 assembler. Couldn't make an 8bit gui work with slowpokes like C. > GEM and TOS (as I understand) were partly host assembler (8088 or 68000) and part c. No commonality > under the hood at all. > From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Fri Apr 5 17:27:55 2002 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:06 2005 Subject: can anyone read some punch cards? Message-ID: <20020405152416.X39742-100000@agora.rdrop.com> Somewhat recently, Zane Healy replied: >>> I have a friend who has a few decks of punch cards that he would >>> like to read. Does anyone have this capability who is willing to >>> do it? >> >>I don't think he's subbed to the list, but if Paul Pierce >>can read 7-track tapes (he can), I'm betting he can read >>unit records, too: >> >>http://www.piercefuller.com/collect > >I know Jim Willing could before he moved to Kansas. What? Did I fall off the earth? Yes, I can still read card decks. >Paul Pierce >definitly has card readers, but I don't know if he's setup to read decks, >I assume he is. I'm a little shocked to hear he can read 7-Track tapes >though. Why shocked? Paul has some really cool gear! >I've got a reader, I just don't have an interface. > > Zane -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw From uban at ubanproductions.com Fri Apr 5 18:03:41 2002 From: uban at ubanproductions.com (Tom Uban) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:06 2005 Subject: can anyone read some punch cards? In-Reply-To: <20020405152416.X39742-100000@agora.rdrop.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20020405180341.00a39100@ubanproductions.com> Jim, Great! If I send the decks to you would you read them in and return them, etc? I will of course pay for shipping, etc. --tnx --tom At 03:27 PM 4/5/02 -0800, you wrote: > >Somewhat recently, Zane Healy replied: > >>>> I have a friend who has a few decks of punch cards that he would >>>> like to read. Does anyone have this capability who is willing to >>>> do it? >>> >>>I don't think he's subbed to the list, but if Paul Pierce >>>can read 7-track tapes (he can), I'm betting he can read >>>unit records, too: >>> >>>http://www.piercefuller.com/collect >> >>I know Jim Willing could before he moved to Kansas. > >What? Did I fall off the earth? Yes, I can still read card decks. > >>Paul Pierce >>definitly has card readers, but I don't know if he's setup to read decks, >>I assume he is. I'm a little shocked to hear he can read 7-Track tapes >>though. > >Why shocked? Paul has some really cool gear! > >>I've got a reader, I just don't have an interface. >> >> Zane > >-jim >--- >jimw@agora.rdrop.com >The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw > > > From bpope at wordstock.com Fri Apr 5 18:09:05 2002 From: bpope at wordstock.com (Bryan Pope) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:06 2005 Subject: GEM-OS In-Reply-To: <000b01c1dcf1$b3228ea0$0a00a8c0@cvendel> from "Curt Vendel" at Apr 5, 02 05:31:55 pm Message-ID: <200204060009.TAA20898@wordstock.com> And thusly Curt Vendel spake: > > Don't forget Diamond which is a GEM TOS "look-alike" version designed for > the Atari 8bits which original came on disk and then came on Super Cartridge > format. Designed by Reevesoft. > Does the GEM TOS have any relationship to the GEM OS that was available for the PC? (Other then name) Cheers, Bryan From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Apr 5 17:26:07 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:06 2005 Subject: Was: Re: WW fixtures (now hp67C) In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.20020404222249.00f90b64@pop1.epm.net.co> from "Carlos Murillo" at Apr 4, 2 10:22:49 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 422 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020406/97d35ef4/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Apr 5 17:45:07 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:06 2005 Subject: should I take RM03's ? In-Reply-To: from "William R. Buckley" at Apr 4, 2 11:31:47 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3028 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020406/4884d7b4/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Apr 5 17:48:27 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:06 2005 Subject: Computers Manufactured in 1986^H^H56 In-Reply-To: <3CAD8DE9.113FD0F6@gifford.co.uk> from "John Honniball" at Apr 5, 2 12:43:37 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 593 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020406/b859b209/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Apr 5 17:53:17 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:06 2005 Subject: OT, but what a relief In-Reply-To: <3CADF0EE.D6018D0A@jetnet.ab.ca> from "Ben Franchuk" at Apr 5, 2 11:46:06 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 403 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020406/4202057c/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Apr 5 17:55:26 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:06 2005 Subject: 6809 single board computer (was: "New" PDP-8) In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20020405122530.02168290@mail.azstarnet.com> from "Gordon Zaft" at Apr 5, 2 12:26:02 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 365 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020406/38e6c517/attachment.ksh From ccraft at springsips.com Fri Apr 5 18:24:15 2002 From: ccraft at springsips.com (Chris Craft) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:06 2005 Subject: ClassicCmp Transportation In-Reply-To: <000701c1dce5$796d9210$e401a8c0@tegjeff.com> References: <000701c1dce5$796d9210$e401a8c0@tegjeff.com> Message-ID: <20020406002413.D9A0A611C5@mamacass.springsips.com> So close to being On Topic... I used my '86 Dodge Ram 150 Prospector (old enough) with lift gate to transport a VAX 4000/500 (will be on topic this June! :) 45 miles from its previous home to mine. Aside from having the a/c compressor freeze up and toss belts all over amid clouds of smoke and needing to fix a leaky power steering pump, it's a good truck, 'specially because of the lift gate. (318 - V8 power is nice, too.) I paid a bit more than $750 for it, though. :) -Chris, RetroComputing(Transportation) Nut. PS: Would the fellow who offered a CD of CP/M stuff please send me his address again, off-list? Thanks! On Friday 05 April 2002 14:04, you wrote: > > All this car talk keeps reminding me I need to fix my truck so I can > > haul old computers and stuff. 77' Dodge with a 318, worn cam bushings, > > maybe bent camshaft. Timing jumps all over the place, even with new > > distributor, chain, and gears. Bottom end is tight, and compression is > > good, but I think I'll go through it completely anyway. > > Good segue back on topic... > > What's the least expensive, semi-reliable transportation for > hauling Classic Computers? > > What I mean is, something that might be a tad flaky starting > up, but once running, is unlikely to suffer mechanical > failure in places where your license plates might as well be > from a foreign country? > > Clearly, my Audi 80 sedan is useless except for the occasional > Apple //e or somesuch teeney weeney computers. > > I used to have a 64 Chevy pickup, should still have it. > > Is such transport possible for circa US$750.00? > > -dq > > > -Douglas Hurst Quebbeman (DougQ at ixnayamspayIgLou.com) [Call me > "Doug"] Surgically excise the pig-latin from my e-mail address in order to > reply "The large print giveth, and the small print taketh away." -Tom > Waits From jhellige at earthlink.net Fri Apr 5 08:29:53 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:07 2005 Subject: sort of OT: lawsuit against an email list In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <02Apr5.200211est.119113@gateway.mediacen.navy.mil> It doesn't have to do with classic computers, but certainly impacts the list in general....here's a link to an article about a $15million lawsuit against members of an email list: http://www.salon.com/tech/feature/2002/04/04/aquatic_plants/index.html Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Apr 5 18:43:22 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:07 2005 Subject: can anyone read some punch cards? In-Reply-To: <20020405152416.X39742-100000@agora.rdrop.com> from "James Willing" at Apr 05, 2002 03:27:55 PM Message-ID: <200204060043.g360hMP27395@shell1.aracnet.com> > >I know Jim Willing could before he moved to Kansas. > > What? Did I fall off the earth? Yes, I can still read card decks. You mean you didn't fall off the earth? I wasn't sure if you'd have the equipement accessable or setup. > >I assume he is. I'm a little shocked to hear he can read 7-Track tapes > >though. > > Why shocked? Paul has some really cool gear! I'd heard being able to read 7-Track's was a lost art. Zane From jhellige at earthlink.net Fri Apr 5 18:52:41 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:07 2005 Subject: Computers Manufactured in 1986^H^H56 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > > > I dismantled a Ferranti board circa 1962/3 to recover the transistors... >> > wish I'd kept the board now ;-( >> >> Likewise, I dismantled a Leo board in about 1975 to recover several >> GET111 germanium transistors. I still have the board and the >> transistors. > >Somewhere (safe) I have a board from a Ferranti computer. I've not traced >out the circuitry, but it's pretty simple (a few gates or maybe a >flip-flop). I should try to find it. It's not as old but I've got a small Univac board from the early 70's. It's installed in some sort of testing rig with a 24pin ribbon cable going to a 40pin dual-row header connector. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From at258 at osfn.org Fri Apr 5 18:54:07 2002 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:07 2005 Subject: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New" PDP-8)) In-Reply-To: <10204050917.ZM27569@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: Peter, could you address how Acme threads fit into these schemes? I should expect that they are always relatively coarse. On Fri, 5 Apr 2002, Pete Turnbull wrote: > On Apr 4, 23:29, Chad Fernandez wrote: > > I've read about bolt types on Brit bikes a bit. It seems that they had > > a variety of things they called Whitworth. > > Not really. See Tony's post; there are various series that use the same > Whitworth thread form (55 degree thread angle, and rounding of crests and > troughs) but they have different names. BSW (British Standard Whitworth) > is the standard coarse series, analagous to ANC/UNC. BSF (British Standard > Fine) is the corresponding fine-pitch series, analagous to ANF/UNF. > > There are some special-purpose threads you might have come across, such as > BSB (British Standard Brass) which is used for finer pitch on soft metals > (26 tpi, regardless of diameter). BSP (BS Pipe) is used for some pipe > fittings, and is confusing because the sizes refer to the internal > diameters of the high-pressure pipes or glands it would be used for (so > 1/4" BSP is a little over 1/2" diameter over the threads). To add insult > to injury, there are two types: plain, and tapered. Then there are some ME > (Model Engineeer) threads which are very fine pitch, in two standard > series: 32 tpi, and 40 tpi. A few of these correspond to normal > BSW/BSF/BSB threads, but apart from that, they're relatively rare. Rarer > still is British Standard Cycle, a fine pitch thread with a 60 degree > thread angle, mostly 26 tpi or 32 tpi (1/8" is 40 tpi, though). > > > -- > Pete Peter Turnbull > Network Manager > University of York > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From rschaefe at gcfn.org Fri Apr 5 18:54:28 2002 From: rschaefe at gcfn.org (Robert Schaefer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:07 2005 Subject: [OT] Dave McGuire... Message-ID: <00c001c1dd05$9c02f8e0$ae469280@y5f3q8> Haven't heard from you or Brian-- do you need me to pick up that IBM? Let me know. Bob From mcguire at neurotica.com Fri Apr 5 19:09:36 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:07 2005 Subject: [OT] Dave McGuire... In-Reply-To: [OT] Dave McGuire... (Robert Schaefer) References: <00c001c1dd05$9c02f8e0$ae469280@y5f3q8> Message-ID: <15534.19152.466026.187603@phaduka.neurotica.com> On April 5, Robert Schaefer wrote: > Haven't heard from you or Brian-- do you need me to pick up that IBM? Let > me know. Been hacking on a time-dependent project and on a weird sleep schedule, sorry man...will reply to your other email in a moment. -Dave -- Dave McGuire "I thought it would go quickly, St. Petersburg, FL that rubberized bottom..." -Sridhar From vance at ikickass.org Fri Apr 5 19:24:18 2002 From: vance at ikickass.org (Sridhar the POWERful) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:07 2005 Subject: OT, but what a relief In-Reply-To: <3CAE05BE.20805@internet1.net> Message-ID: Depends on the gun. 8-) Peace... Sridhar On Fri, 5 Apr 2002, Chad Fernandez wrote: > A gun isn't exactly a weapon of mass destruction.... it's pretty localized. > > At least not with him standing there holding a weapon of > > mass destruction. From dquebbeman at acm.org Fri Apr 5 20:22:55 2002 From: dquebbeman at acm.org (Douglas H. Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:07 2005 Subject: Inter-Listmember Contact Difficulties Message-ID: <000701c1dd11$f6612a30$e401a8c0@tegjeff.com> There are a number of denial-of-service attacks under way on ther Internet all the time, but we're in a wave of heavy attacks right now. Once by one, DNS servers are getting hijacked, and as a result, domains are evaporating into the ether. Sometimes, one person can get through to another for a while because their domain remains cached somewhere along the route. But eventually, you get cut off. When it happend to us last week, our ISP tracked down the hijacking machine, which itself had been hijacked, and managed to well, it has a cold, shall we say? Nice to have an ISP with good Kung Fu... ;) In the meantime, list members might volunteer to get word through to some member that some other particular member might not be able to reach. And there are these things called telephones, too... -dq -Douglas Hurst Quebbeman (DougQ at ixnayamspayIgLou.com) [Call me "Doug"] Surgically excise the pig-latin from my e-mail address in order to reply "The large print giveth, and the small print taketh away." -Tom Waits From bill_r at inetnebr.com Fri Apr 5 20:37:26 2002 From: bill_r at inetnebr.com (Bill Richman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:07 2005 Subject: ADM3a Keyboard Photo Needed Message-ID: Just dusted off an ADM3a, and it's intact except for a key centered between the arrow keys on the right-hand side, which is missing the top. I'm also not certain that all of the other keys are in the right positions. Can someone take a couple of close-up digital photos of the keyboard and e-mail them to me? Or maybe scan a manual page that shows the keyboard layout? I may try to modify a spare PC keyboard keytop to replace the missing one, if the colors are close (or I can paint it to match). Thanks! -Bill Richman (bill_r@inetnebr.com) Web Page: http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r Home of the COSMAC Elf Microcomputer Simulator, Fun with Molten Metal, Orphaned Robots, and Technological Oddities. From bill_r at inetnebr.com Fri Apr 5 20:37:58 2002 From: bill_r at inetnebr.com (Bill Richman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:07 2005 Subject: Doug Yowza? Message-ID: <9rnsaugegvt681t1qonctnqt7glltj7ef9@4ax.com> Anyone know what became of Doug Yowza who used to be on this list? -Bill Richman (bill_r@inetnebr.com) Web Page: http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r Home of the COSMAC Elf Microcomputer Simulator, Fun with Molten Metal, Orphaned Robots, and Technological Oddities. From mcguire at neurotica.com Fri Apr 5 20:32:54 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:07 2005 Subject: Special debugging techniques (was RE: Shoddy Hardware) In-Reply-To: Re: Special debugging techniques (was RE: Shoddy Hardware) (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) References: <20020402211931.37239.qmail@web20102.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <15534.24150.855664.403048@phaduka.neurotica.com> On April 2, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > Doesn't anybody use a rubber chicken anymore? Sure, but not for debugging. -Dave -- Dave McGuire "I thought it would go quickly, St. Petersburg, FL that rubberized bottom..." -Sridhar From bill_r at inetnebr.com Fri Apr 5 21:19:02 2002 From: bill_r at inetnebr.com (Bill Richman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:07 2005 Subject: ADM3a Keyboard Photo Needed In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Actually, it's an ADM3A+ (plus)... On Fri, 05 Apr 2002 20:37:26 -0600, you wrote: >Just dusted off an ADM3a, and it's intact except for a key centered >between the arrow keys on the right-hand side, which is missing the >top. I'm also not certain that all of the other keys are in the right >positions. Can someone take a couple of close-up digital photos of >the keyboard and e-mail them to me? Or maybe scan a manual page that >shows the keyboard layout? I may try to modify a spare PC keyboard >keytop to replace the missing one, if the colors are close (or I can >paint it to match). Thanks! > > -Bill Richman (bill_r@inetnebr.com) > Web Page: http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r > Home of the COSMAC Elf Microcomputer Simulator, Fun with > Molten Metal, Orphaned Robots, and Technological Oddities. -Bill Richman (bill_r@inetnebr.com) Web Page: http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r Home of the COSMAC Elf Microcomputer Simulator, Fun with Molten Metal, Orphaned Robots, and Technological Oddities. From tony.eros at machm.org Fri Apr 5 21:35:36 2002 From: tony.eros at machm.org (Tony Eros) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:07 2005 Subject: DEC swap meet?(RE: Off Topic? PDP 11 1134/1145's) In-Reply-To: <20020404041045.34933.qmail@web20104.mail.yahoo.com> References: Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20020405223501.00a6dca0@mail.njd.concentric.com> I like the Philadelphia area (I'm in Delaware) -- who was the poster who mentioned Philly? -- Tony At 08:10 PM 4/3/2002 -0800, you wrote: >--- Lord Isildur wrote: > > i'd think. > > as for pittsburgh, it is too far west i think. > >Probably too far west for you East Coasters, but I can get there in a >few hours myself. I could even score a place to crash and make a weekend >out of it. > >So... if Pittsbutgh is ever an option, I'll probably be able to show up. > >-ethan > > > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax >http://taxes.yahoo.com/ From aek at spies.com Fri Apr 5 22:11:09 2002 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:07 2005 Subject: can anyone read some punch cards? Message-ID: <200204060411.UAA02206@spies.com> > I'd heard being able to read 7-Track's was a lost art. The problem is finding a drive with a 7 track head. The stuff has been out of production for 30 years and people stopped making 7 track head stacks a LONG time ago. I've been looking for one for a couple of years now. Heck, I'd be happy just to find a 7 track head stack.. I'm still kicking myself for missing the 7-track TU10 that was on eBay a couple years ago. From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Fri Apr 5 22:19:39 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:07 2005 Subject: Was: Re: WW fixtures (now hp67C) References: Message-ID: <3CAE775B.5725867C@jetnet.ab.ca> Tony Duell wrote: > > > to drive this on topic, how many of you fell for the hp67c > > april fool's joke at the hp calculator museum? I did, for a few > > ecstatic seconds, and then felt _rather_ heartbroken... > > I was darn sure it was a hoax from the start (no sane person these days > would use LED displays in a handheld calculator). But it was remarkably > convincing. > > And yes, I am sorry it was a hoax. I'd probably have bought one... > > -tony Bring back the Nixie Tube Display ... That and real keyboard makes using a calculator a joy. -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Fri Apr 5 22:24:37 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:07 2005 Subject: OT, but what a relief References: Message-ID: <3CAE7885.959316AC@jetnet.ab.ca> Tony Duell wrote: > > > Funny I took a hammer to my VCR ( At home ) since I said "give me my > > tape back > > or else". It did not listen too well, but I did get my tape OUT. > > I've always found removing the VCR's cover and twiddling the loading arm > drive and cassette holder (basket) drive to be a quicker and easier way > of getting the tape out, with less risk of damage to the tape (and to the > VCR for that matter). > > -tony I have had the cover off for over a year fiddling with that mechanism. Anyway I gave it to somebody I know who repairs old vcr's for parts. I got a DVD for the new stuff. -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From doug at blinkenlights.com Fri Apr 5 22:01:04 2002 From: doug at blinkenlights.com (Doug Salot) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:07 2005 Subject: Doug Yowza? In-Reply-To: <9rnsaugegvt681t1qonctnqt7glltj7ef9@4ax.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 5 Apr 2002, Bill Richman wrote: > Anyone know what became of Doug Yowza who used to be on this list? Hey, Bill. He sold yowza.com to a now-defunct porn monger, dropped the Yowza pseudonym, and moved to an island where he still lurks on mailing lists and hoards his precious old computers :-) Cheers, Doug From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org Fri Apr 5 22:51:46 2002 From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:07 2005 Subject: should I take RM03's ? References: <30DBA2DACC0CD611B3E60008C7092D8F2F8DC2@hqvenloexch.oce.nl> Message-ID: <3CAE7EE2.2050401@aurora.regenstrief.org> Gooijen H wrote: > Hi all. > > I need some advise. > In 3 weeks time Edward and I drive to Italy (some 1100 km) > to pick up several PDP-11/70 parts. > I have the oppertunity to drag 2 RM03 massbus drives and > some packs back home. ... > Are they worth preserving? Or should I leave them where they are? > Next to the 11/70 is looks great (IMHO) but I would love to hear > some opinions from other collectors. Absolutely! A nice collection really needs one of those drives that look like top-loader laundry washers and have drums as big as those. I just passed on one RP07 because it only was the size of an American laundry washer but not a removable drum. I think the RM03 comes closest to my romantic image of that top-loader. I probably will never have one, but will stick to RA60s (I just love RA disks and only need a 7x and a 60 to have the complete series 60, 81, 82, 90, 92, 7x.) I already know where the RA60 will go. Top-loader removables are just great and if you have a truck and drive 1100 km for other stuff, by all means take them too!!! -Gunther -- Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D. gschadow@regenstrief.org Medical Information Scientist Regenstrief Institute for Health Care Adjunct Assistant Professor Indiana University School of Medicine tel:1(317)630-7960 http://aurora.regenstrief.org From gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org Fri Apr 5 23:09:32 2002 From: gunther at aurora.regenstrief.org (Gunther Schadow) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:07 2005 Subject: Ultrix root password References: Message-ID: <3CAE830C.4060504@aurora.regenstrief.org> Clint Wolff (VAX collector) wrote: >>On Mon, Apr 01, 2002 at 07:47:52PM -0700, Clint Wolff (VAX collector) wrote: >> >> >>>Easiest way is to attach the drive to a comparable machine running >>>a Ultrix that you know the password too. Mount it, edit /etc/passwd, >>>umount it, and re-install. >>> >>Netboot NetBSD, mount, edit, ... >>NetBSD should be able to handle the 4.2BSD FFS of Ultrix. >>At least it is worth a try if booting the Ultix/VAX to single >>user mode don't work. I don't think you can write to an UFS from NetBSD. At least with FreeBSD I can read but not write. But the easiest way to recover lost unix passwords is to boot in single user mode and then change password the normal way. Consult your VAX manual for the boot parameters for single user mode. -Gunther -- Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D. gschadow@regenstrief.org Medical Information Scientist Regenstrief Institute for Health Care Adjunct Assistant Professor Indiana University School of Medicine tel:1(317)630-7960 http://aurora.regenstrief.org From vance at ikickass.org Fri Apr 5 23:19:08 2002 From: vance at ikickass.org (Sridhar the POWERful) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:07 2005 Subject: Video Card Message-ID: Anyone know where I can get an IBM RS/6000 POWER GXT1000 Model 002 video card? Peace... Sridhar From hansp at aconit.org Fri Apr 5 23:29:03 2002 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:07 2005 Subject: can anyone read some punch cards? References: <3.0.5.32.20020405124216.009f6e00@ubanproductions.com> Message-ID: <3CAE879F.5090706@aconit.org> Tom Uban wrote: > I have a friend who has a few decks of punch cards that he would > like to read. Does anyone have this capability who is willing to > do it? You don't say where you are located but ACONIT in Grenoble France has that capability. -- HBP From hansp at aconit.org Fri Apr 5 23:39:05 2002 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:07 2005 Subject: Software Preservation (was: SIMTEL...) References: <20020405064703.68901.qmail@web11808.mail.yahoo.com> <200204051225.NAA09857@citadel.metropolis.local> <20020405142350.A10199@eskimo.eskimo.com> Message-ID: <3CAE89F9.7020701@aconit.org> Derek Peschel wrote: > On Fri, Apr 05, 2002 at 01:25:29PM +0100, Stan Barr wrote: >>Don't know about PDP-8 programs, but a copy of a program >>to print squares, by M.V.Wilkes, May 1949 is available >>for the EDSAC emulator...could this be the oldest surviving >>computer program? (Of course, the operating sustem - or >>Initial Orders as it was known - is older.) > I thought the squares program was lost and had to be reconstructed. You may be thinking of the first program run at Manchester in 1948, although a notebook survives with a listing of that program it is dated some weeks later. The original authors of the program reconstructed it from that listing and their recollections. This was done for the 50th anniversary celebrations in 1998. More details for the curious at http://www.computer50.org/ Since the manchester machine is considered (by some) to be the first electronic stored program digital computer, then the first program to run on it must, by definition, be the oldest - no? -- hbp From fernande at internet1.net Fri Apr 5 23:38:21 2002 From: fernande at internet1.net (Chad Fernandez) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:07 2005 Subject: Inter-Listmember Contact Difficulties References: <000701c1dd11$f6612a30$e401a8c0@tegjeff.com> Message-ID: <3CAE89CD.30406@internet1.net> Douglas H. Quebbeman wrote: > And there are these things called telephones, too... Isn't that the old device you have to unplug to get to hook up a modem? :-) Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA From doc at mdrconsult.com Sat Apr 6 00:09:01 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:07 2005 Subject: Video Card In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 6 Apr 2002, Sridhar the POWERful wrote: > > Anyone know where I can get an IBM RS/6000 POWER GXT1000 Model 002 video > card? > > Peace... Sridhar Do you have the GXT1000 display hardware? Doc From zaft at azstarnet.com Sat Apr 6 00:20:05 2002 From: zaft at azstarnet.com (Gordon C. Zaft) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:07 2005 Subject: Inter-Listmember Contact Difficulties In-Reply-To: <000701c1dd11$f6612a30$e401a8c0@tegjeff.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020405231939.038a9598@pop.azstarnet.com> At 09:22 PM 4/5/2002 -0500, you wrote: >In the meantime, list members might volunteer to >get word through to some member that some other >particular member might not be able to reach. > >And there are these things called telephones, too... See, if we had that ClassicCmp UUCP network, we'd be set. Gordon Zaft zaft@azstarnet.com http://www.zaft.org/gordon From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sat Apr 6 01:31:25 2002 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:07 2005 Subject: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New" PDP-8)) In-Reply-To: "Merle K. Peirce" "Re: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New" PDP-8))" (Apr 5, 19:54) References: Message-ID: <10204060831.ZM28460@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Apr 5, 19:54, Merle K. Peirce wrote: > Peter, could you address how Acme threads fit into these schemes? I > should expect that they are always relatively coarse. In a sense, they don't. They're not normally used for fasteners, which is what the others are for (arguably with the exception of BSP) :-) Yes, they're usually fairly coarse, and used for things like leadscrews on machine tools and vise jaws. For leadscrews, they're usually made to some specific pitch that equates to some nice decimal number of turns per inch, or millimetres per turn. They're also unusual in having large flats on both the crests and troughs (most other threads are rounded on one or the other); in fact they're almost square -- the thread depth is 0.5 x the pitch, and the walls slope at only 14.5 degrees, so the included angle is 29 degree, much less than most threads which are typically either 55 or 60 degrees. And the clearance between screw and nut is very small, typically 0.001". -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York From quapla at xs4all.nl Sat Apr 6 01:39:47 2002 From: quapla at xs4all.nl (The Wanderer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:07 2005 Subject: should I take RM03's ? References: <15533.17833.740648.732205@phaduka.neurotica.com> <20020405190633.58129.qmail@web20101.mail.yahoo.com> <15534.7573.275483.364100@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <3CAEA643.D8626C00@xs4all.nl> Dave McGuire wrote: > snip snip > > I thought the only big difference between the RM02 and the RM03 was > the spindle speed, though. Not entirely according to my copy of the systems & options summary guide. The RM02 canbe used with any PDP except the 11/70, while the RM03 is only for the 11/70, as it has a massbus interface. Ed -- The Wanderer | Politici zijn gore oplichters. quapla@xs4all.nl | Europarlementariers: zakkenvullers http://www.xs4all.nl/~quapla | en neuspeuteraars. Unix Lives! M$ Windows is rommel! | Kilometerheffing : De overheid '97 TL1000S | weet waar je bent geweest! From stanb at dial.pipex.com Sat Apr 6 02:26:30 2002 From: stanb at dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:07 2005 Subject: Software Preservation (was: SIMTEL...) In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 05 Apr 2002 14:23:50 -0800." <20020405142350.A10199@eskimo.eskimo.com> Message-ID: <200204060826.JAA19989@citadel.metropolis.local> Hi, Derek Peschel said: > On Fri, Apr 05, 2002 at 01:25:29PM +0100, Stan Barr wrote: > > > Don't know about PDP-8 programs, but a copy of a program > > to print squares, by M.V.Wilkes, May 1949 is available > > for the EDSAC emulator...could this be the oldest surviving > > computer program? (Of course, the operating sustem - or > > Initial Orders as it was known - is older.) > > I thought the squares program was lost and had to be reconstructed. I was quoting from the listing. However reading the docs for the emulator it says: "It should be emphasiszed that these programs - like almost all of the routines supplied with the Edsac emulator - have not been rewritten, but are historical artifacts. They have been sitting in the original conference proceedings since 1949." > > Also, I'd call the Initial Orders more of an assembler/loader > than an OS, since it didn't incldue any subroutines you could use > for things like I/O. Eventually they added a library of I/O and > math subroutines, some utilities (mostly for debugging), and a > fancier version of the Initial Orders that allowed you to decide > at load time where subroutines should go. But you still had to > decide what subroutines to use and copy them to your input tape. > Yor're right, of course... > The tic-tac-toe (noughts and crosses) program is undoubtedly > one of the oldest computer games. > -- Cheers, Stan Barr stanb@dial.pipex.com The future was never like this! From mcguire at neurotica.com Sat Apr 6 03:30:27 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:07 2005 Subject: should I take RM03's ? In-Reply-To: Re: should I take RM03's ? (The Wanderer) References: <15533.17833.740648.732205@phaduka.neurotica.com> <20020405190633.58129.qmail@web20101.mail.yahoo.com> <15534.7573.275483.364100@phaduka.neurotica.com> <3CAEA643.D8626C00@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <15534.49203.935010.260838@phaduka.neurotica.com> On April 6, The Wanderer wrote: > > I thought the only big difference between the RM02 and the RM03 was > > the spindle speed, though. > > Not entirely according to my copy of the systems & options summary > guide. > The RM02 canbe used with any PDP except the 11/70, while the RM03 is > only for the 11/70, as it has a massbus interface. Wait a minute...ALL RM02/03/05 drives are massbus. It is my (old and possibly erroneous) understanding that the RM03 was sold with the 11/70 in particular because it had a faster spindle speed, and as such, transferred data more quickly. What, specifically, does that Systmes & Options guide say about these drives? -Dave -- Dave McGuire "I thought it would go quickly, St. Petersburg, FL that rubberized bottom..." -Sridhar From vance at ikickass.org Sat Apr 6 05:05:25 2002 From: vance at ikickass.org (Sridhar the POWERful) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:07 2005 Subject: Video Card In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 6 Apr 2002, Doc wrote: > > Anyone know where I can get an IBM RS/6000 POWER GXT1000 Model 002 video > > card? > > Do you have the GXT1000 display hardware? No, I need the box and everything, not just the interface. Peace... Sridhar From at258 at osfn.org Sat Apr 6 07:00:41 2002 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:07 2005 Subject: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New" PDP-8)) In-Reply-To: <10204060831.ZM28460@mindy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: Thank you Peter, it was the pitch that interested me. I once used an Acme threaded spring hanger for a writing assignment. While it sounds very simple, describing one of the little buggers makes you stop and think. On Sat, 6 Apr 2002, Pete Turnbull wrote: > On Apr 5, 19:54, Merle K. Peirce wrote: > > Peter, could you address how Acme threads fit into these schemes? I > > should expect that they are always relatively coarse. > > In a sense, they don't. They're not normally used for fasteners, which is > what the others are for (arguably with the exception of BSP) :-) > > Yes, they're usually fairly coarse, and used for things like leadscrews on > machine tools and vise jaws. For leadscrews, they're usually made to some > specific pitch that equates to some nice decimal number of turns per inch, > or millimetres per turn. They're also unusual in having large flats on > both the crests and troughs (most other threads are rounded on one or the > other); in fact they're almost square -- the thread depth is 0.5 x the > pitch, and the walls slope at only 14.5 degrees, so the included angle is > 29 degree, much less than most threads which are typically either 55 or 60 > degrees. And the clearance between screw and nut is very small, typically > 0.001". > > -- > Pete Peter Turnbull > Network Manager > University of York > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. Shady Lea, Rhode Island "Casta est quam nemo rogavit." - Ovid From quapla at xs4all.nl Sat Apr 6 07:28:57 2002 From: quapla at xs4all.nl (The Wanderer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:07 2005 Subject: should I take RM03's ? References: <15533.17833.740648.732205@phaduka.neurotica.com> <20020405190633.58129.qmail@web20101.mail.yahoo.com> <15534.7573.275483.364100@phaduka.neurotica.com> <3CAEA643.D8626C00@xs4all.nl> <15534.49203.935010.260838@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <3CAEF819.65DC1D5F@xs4all.nl> Well, the guide says the following: RJM02-AA(AD) : RM02 disk drive and controller to interface to the PDP-11 UNIBUS RWM03-AA(AD) : Single-ported RM03 disk drive and controller to interface to the PDP-11/70 MASSBUS. The description of both is almost the same, but it explicitly mentions UNIBUS in the RM02 text and MASSBUS in the RM03 text. Oddly, the RM02 is not using the RH11 (Massbus interface for Unibus), but is using the RJM02 drive interface on the Unibus. If the latter is Massbus, why then having 2 different interfaces? A DEC quirk? In any case, Henk and I may reconsider using a different type of transportation to get the 2 machines and 2 or 3 drives back home..... Ed Dave McGuire wrote: > > On April 6, The Wanderer wrote: > > > I thought the only big difference between the RM02 and the RM03 was > > > the spindle speed, though. > > > > Not entirely according to my copy of the systems & options summary > > guide. > > The RM02 canbe used with any PDP except the 11/70, while the RM03 is > > only for the 11/70, as it has a massbus interface. > > Wait a minute...ALL RM02/03/05 drives are massbus. It is my (old and > possibly erroneous) understanding that the RM03 was sold with the > 11/70 in particular because it had a faster spindle speed, and as > such, transferred data more quickly. > > What, specifically, does that Systmes & Options guide say about > these drives? > > -Dave > > -- > Dave McGuire "I thought it would go quickly, > St. Petersburg, FL that rubberized bottom..." -Sridhar -- The Wanderer | Politici zijn gore oplichters. quapla@xs4all.nl | Europarlementariers: zakkenvullers http://www.xs4all.nl/~quapla | en neuspeuteraars. Unix Lives! M$ Windows is rommel! | Kilometerheffing : De overheid '97 TL1000S | weet waar je bent geweest! From bill at timeguy.com Sat Apr 6 08:49:32 2002 From: bill at timeguy.com (Bill Richman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:07 2005 Subject: Doug Yowza? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020406084519.P68905-100000@outpost.timeguy.com> Oh. Well, if you see him, tell him that the 8008 chip he sent me several years ago (which spent most of its life with me sitting on my PC keyboard in a chip carrier, and moved houses with me once) is alive and well and happily running the Mark-8 replica I just built. I hope all the salt air isn't corroding his computers...! ;-) (Hi Doug!) On Fri, 5 Apr 2002, Doug Salot wrote: > On Fri, 5 Apr 2002, Bill Richman wrote: > > > Anyone know what became of Doug Yowza who used to be on this list? > > Hey, Bill. He sold yowza.com to a now-defunct porn monger, dropped the > Yowza pseudonym, and moved to an island where he still lurks on mailing > lists and hoards his precious old computers :-) > > Cheers, > Doug > > From allain at panix.com Sat Apr 6 08:59:52 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:07 2005 Subject: Was: Re: WW fixtures (now hp67C) References: Message-ID: <005001c1dd7b$b55d6fc0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> > how many of you fell for the hp67c ? Is a link still available? John A. From zmerch at 30below.com Sat Apr 6 09:31:44 2002 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:07 2005 Subject: ADM3a Keyboard Photo Needed In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020406103144.014cc808@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Bill Richman may have mentioned these words: >Actually, it's an ADM3A+ (plus)... [snippage] Is the keyboard similar enough to an ADM31 to be helpful to you? And if so, is 5 megapixel good enough quality? (;-) Laterz, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat Apr 6 09:54:40 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:07 2005 Subject: Inter-Listmember Contact Difficulties In-Reply-To: <3CAE89CD.30406@internet1.net> Message-ID: > Douglas H. Quebbeman wrote: > > And there are these things called telephones, too... On Sat, 6 Apr 2002, Chad Fernandez wrote: > Isn't that the old device you have to unplug to get to hook up a modem? :-) Unplug? D'ya mean the red, green, black, and yellow wires held on by screws? (8x32?) It's the device for connecting the modem. First lift up the detachable corded part (called the "handset"), and listen for "dial tone". Then turn the large rotary dial the appropriate number of times. When you hear the "carrier tone", place the handset into the cups of the acoustic coupler. From hansp at aconit.org Sat Apr 6 10:23:39 2002 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:07 2005 Subject: Was: Re: WW fixtures (now hp67C) References: <005001c1dd7b$b55d6fc0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> Message-ID: <3CAF210B.6010209@aconit.org> John Allain wrote: >>how many of you fell for the hp67c ? > Is a link still available? This page contains the link to the original spoof: http://www.hp.com:calculators-product-id+ACU-3D67cx+AEA-209.197.117.170/item/product.htm -- hbp From pat at cart-server.purdueriots.com Sat Apr 6 10:26:45 2002 From: pat at cart-server.purdueriots.com (pat@cart-server.purdueriots.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:07 2005 Subject: recreating the PDP-11 Message-ID: In a project I'm thinking about starting this summer, I want to try and re-create a PDP-11 (or maybe a -8 or something) using either SSI logic and/or PAL/GALs. I would like to do the entire thing in SSI, but I fear that I'd quickly eat up a lot of money on the project, so where necessary I'd replace sections with PALs. Anyone have any good ideas? About what I'm doing: Trying to replicate an 'old-computer feel' for a mock airport that a friend of mine is thinking about making. I'll have a good amount of time to work on designing it before I start laying down copper on a circuit board. I'd like to make something that 1) looks authentically old and 2) has a design I can (semi-legally, not for resale) copy so I don't have to do all the re-design work myself. I've considered just using a plain-old Apple //e that I have, but that wouldn't be 'old enough' looking I was thinking. It'll need to have a good amount of I/O, and be easy enough that I can actually build it and understand how to program it without much effort. By that way, I don't care about using 'standard OS's' or 'standard hardware' too much, I just want to put together a system with a CPU, serial port, and some sort of floppy drive interface (I prefer 5-1/4 disks at some PC readable format) it can boot off of - or perhaps an IDE interface as that would be easy to program a 'driver' for (or so I'm told). Does anyone have any suggestions for what I should try to build? Eg. what model PDP-11 cpu card, what prints I should get to try and assemble a basic working system, etc. Should I try something else? I would like to go a bit overboard, the look is a part of the thing, but I don't want to screw with finding things like QBUS drivers, and don't think I'll want to bother with a 'traditional mini-computer bus' if I don't need to. This is what I have so far: 1) CPU card 2) Memory - SRAM 3) Front-panel switches 4) Console serial port 5) A few digital I/O ports 6) Floppy interface (anyone suggest an easy to interface controller?) 7) IDE controller -- Pat From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Sat Apr 6 10:39:01 2002 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:07 2005 Subject: 7 Track Tapes... Message-ID: <20020406083515.F69527-100000@agora.rdrop.com> Zane commented... >> >I'm a little shocked to hear he (Paul Pierce) can read 7-Track tapes >> >though. >> >> Why shocked? Paul has some really cool gear! > >I'd heard being able to read 7-Track's was a lost art. But isn't that what we're all about? Preservation of the 'lost arts'? ;^} -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw When's the last time you decompiled Z-80 code? For me it was last week! From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Sat Apr 6 11:13:32 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:07 2005 Subject: Software Preservation (was: SIMTEL...) References: <20020405064703.68901.qmail@web11808.mail.yahoo.com> <200204051225.NAA09857@citadel.metropolis.local> <20020405142350.A10199@eskimo.eskimo.com> <3CAE89F9.7020701@aconit.org> Message-ID: <3CAF2CBC.E094286C@jetnet.ab.ca> Hans B Pufal wrote: > > Derek Peschel wrote: > > On Fri, Apr 05, 2002 at 01:25:29PM +0100, Stan Barr wrote: > > >>Don't know about PDP-8 programs, but a copy of a program > >>to print squares, by M.V.Wilkes, May 1949 is available > >>for the EDSAC emulator...could this be the oldest surviving > >>computer program? (Of course, the operating sustem - or > >>Initial Orders as it was known - is older.) > > > I thought the squares program was lost and had to be reconstructed. > > You may be thinking of the first program run at Manchester in 1948, > although a notebook survives with a listing of that program it is dated > some weeks later. The original authors of the program reconstructed it > from that listing and their recollections. This was done for the 50th > anniversary celebrations in 1998. More details for the curious at > http://www.computer50.org/ > > Since the manchester machine is considered (by some) to be the first > electronic stored program digital computer, then the first program to > run on it must, by definition, be the oldest - no? > I think there was a few algorithmic notes , almost a program for babbage's mill. Since one has a Babbage emulator ( http://www.fourmilab.ch/babbage/contents.html ) and some hardware built in the 1990's is the mill the first or last? historical computer built? -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From thomas at tstrathmann.de Sat Apr 6 11:15:08 2002 From: thomas at tstrathmann.de (Thomas Strathmann) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:07 2005 Subject: recreating the PDP-11 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020406171508.GA22420@adams> pat@cart-server.purdueriots.com wrote: [Building some mock PDP computer] If you want something which is very easily programmable, then go for a PDP-8. I had no problem learning how to code a few useful programs in PDP-8 assembler using some documents from the web. You shoudl have a look at what this guy did. It is very similar to what you are trying to do if I read you correctly. http://www.spies.com/~dgc/ Thomas -- Thomas S. Strathmann http://pdp7.org If God had intended Man to Smoke, He would have set him on Fire. From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Sat Apr 6 11:39:22 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:07 2005 Subject: recreating the PDP-11 References: Message-ID: <3CAF32CA.7CCA1230@jetnet.ab.ca> pat@cart-server.purdueriots.com wrote: > > In a project I'm thinking about starting this summer, I want to try and > re-create a PDP-11 (or maybe a -8 or something) using either SSI logic > and/or PAL/GALs. I would like to do the entire thing in SSI, but I fear > that I'd quickly eat up a lot of money on the project, so where necessary > I'd replace sections with PALs. Anyone have any good ideas? (snip) > 1) CPU card > 2) Memory - SRAM > 3) Front-panel switches > 4) Console serial port > 5) A few digital I/O ports > 6) Floppy interface (anyone suggest an easy to interface controller?) > 7) IDE controller Barring #7 can I sell you the nice 12/24 bit FPGA cpu I homebrewing. :) The PDP-11 is way too complex for SSI logic. A reduced PDP-8 style cpu would be possible with SSI logic. While not true SSI logic modern EEPROMS would be very useful for control logic. Byte magazine had a few TTL designed cpu's. Stack based languages like Forth are easy to do in TTL. I would have done my FPGA computer in TTL but nowadays you can't find the 74LS chips I needed anymore like 74ls382 4-bit alu. One other option is 2901 bit slice parts. B.G.Micro seems to have a few in stock. If I were to redesign I would use 2901 bit slice parts and EEPROMS for control now that I know where to find 2901's. A floppy disk controller interface is fairly simple but you need a fast CPU for the disk if some sort of DMA is not used. That is why my FPGA computer is not quite finished , I am squeezing in DMA for HD floppies. Also the front panel logic needs a bit of work too. If you really want to be authentic don't forget to add Refresh logic on the CPU for DRAM. -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Apr 6 11:49:29 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:07 2005 Subject: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New" PDP-8)) In-Reply-To: from "Merle K. Peirce" at Apr 5, 2 07:54:07 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 884 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020406/6bf60013/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Apr 6 12:02:22 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:07 2005 Subject: Was: Re: WW fixtures (now hp67C) In-Reply-To: <3CAE775B.5725867C@jetnet.ab.ca> from "Ben Franchuk" at Apr 5, 2 09:19:39 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 202 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020406/26f882b6/attachment.ksh From mcguire at neurotica.com Sat Apr 6 12:07:08 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:07 2005 Subject: recreating the PDP-11 In-Reply-To: Re: recreating the PDP-11 (Ben Franchuk) References: <3CAF32CA.7CCA1230@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <15535.14668.967127.425026@phaduka.neurotica.com> On April 6, Ben Franchuk wrote: > The PDP-11 is way too complex for SSI logic. DEC did it. :) -Dave -- Dave McGuire "I thought it would go quickly, St. Petersburg, FL that rubberized bottom..." -Sridhar From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Apr 6 12:08:29 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:07 2005 Subject: Inter-Listmember Contact Difficulties In-Reply-To: <3CAE89CD.30406@internet1.net> from "Chad Fernandez" at Apr 6, 2 00:38:21 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 431 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020406/c2b92811/attachment.ksh From foo at siconic.com Sat Apr 6 04:12:16 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:07 2005 Subject: OT, but what a relief In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 5 Apr 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > Because my web-browser is not on the same machine as my e-mail. > Netscrape/Internet Exploiter seem to want at least 386, and Lynx doesn't > handle frames and the rest of the modern crap very well. Find and download w3m instead of lynx. It works MUCH better (and handles frames!) You can also try "links" (not as good as w3m in my opinion but it has some strong points). Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From foo at siconic.com Sat Apr 6 04:15:43 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:07 2005 Subject: Was: Re: WW fixtures (now hp67C) In-Reply-To: <3CAF210B.6010209@aconit.org> Message-ID: On Sat, 6 Apr 2002, Hans B Pufal wrote: > John Allain wrote: > >>how many of you fell for the hp67c ? > > > Is a link still available? > > This page contains the link to the original spoof: > > http://www.hp.com:calculators-product-id+ACU-3D67cx+AEA-209.197.117.170/item/product.htm ^^^^ ^^^^ No it doesn't because you have those funky escape characters that seem to pop up from time to time in various listmembers' messages. :( Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From doc at mdrconsult.com Sat Apr 6 12:41:33 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:07 2005 Subject: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New" PDP-8)) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 6 Apr 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > > > > Peter, could you address how Acme threads fit into these schemes? I > > should expect that they are always relatively coarse. Should I toss buttress threads in? Or the whole family of oilfield tool joint technology? Those are threaded pipe couplings meant to be torqued to 50,000 ft/lb and more. You oughta see the pipe-wrench.... Doc From rdd at rddavis.org Sat Apr 6 13:14:39 2002 From: rdd at rddavis.org (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:07 2005 Subject: Acoustic Couplers (was: Inter-Listmember Contact Difficulties) In-Reply-To: References: <3CAE89CD.30406@internet1.net> Message-ID: <20020406191438.GA8015@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Quothe Fred Cisin (XenoSoft), from writings of Sat, Apr 06, 2002 at 07:54:40AM -0800: > Then turn the large rotary dial the appropriate number of times. When you > hear the "carrier tone", place the handset into the cups of the acoustic > coupler. This reminds me, these acoustic couplers may need some periodic maintenance, such as putting some talcum powder on the rubber pieces that hold the telephone handset. Some time ago I read about this being a good way to preserve the rubber weatherstripping around car windows (e.g., the 1970s Fords that didn't have frames around the windows), now, I wish that I'd done that years ago. However, I was thinking that it would just wash off when it rained and didn't do it, and replacement weather seals now appear impossible to find. Now then, I suspect that the replacement parts for these acoustic couplers would be even more difficult to locate. -- Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd@rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty. From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Sat Apr 6 13:03:37 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:07 2005 Subject: recreating the PDP-11 References: <3CAF32CA.7CCA1230@jetnet.ab.ca> <15535.14668.967127.425026@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <3CAF4689.6E789F38@jetnet.ab.ca> Dave McGuire wrote: > > On April 6, Ben Franchuk wrote: > > The PDP-11 is way too complex for SSI logic. > > DEC did it. :) True -- but remember all but the first PDP-11's were microcoded logic. Even then that is a lot of control logic. The PDP-11 was a big BOX. The current CPU I am working has 46 states. Assuming a average of 4 gates per state (like a 7400) that's 46 chips Just FOR STATE decoding not counting other control logic assuming random logic is used for control.Lets not forget the Alu section too, the PDP-11 had the full range of alu ops not ADD,AND like the PDP-8 and the 11 has 8 registers too that could be set via the front panel. --- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Sat Apr 6 13:05:56 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:07 2005 Subject: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New" PDP-8)) References: Message-ID: <3CAF4714.7A4FC56D@jetnet.ab.ca> Doc wrote: > Should I toss buttress threads in? Or the whole family of oilfield > tool joint technology? Those are threaded pipe couplings meant to be > torqued to 50,000 ft/lb and more. You oughta see the pipe-wrench.... > > Doc I bet you don't drop that pipe-wrench on your foot :) -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From doc at mdrconsult.com Sat Apr 6 13:09:48 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:08 2005 Subject: BA23 vs. BA123 vs. 42" cabinet? Message-ID: Hi, all. I went last night and picked up (OK, dragged, while groaning) the MicroVAX Terry Murphy posted for rescue Thursday night. I'm fairly certain he hadn't ever used it, as the description was not terribly accurate. There was no DELQA, several of the cab kits aren't there, memory is only 16M, etc. Nice haul, anyway. The thing came in a 42" elephant-ear cabinet, which is in fair cosmetic shape, and without plugging it in, I'd guess good to excellent functional shape. Some QBus boards I can't ID, and the other goodies that came with, I'll post separately. So. I'm not enamored of the idea of running a 240VAC rack in my garage if not necessary. That leaves me with two other ideas. 1) The "drawers" are simply BA23 enclosures, right? Any reason I can't use the primary enclosure as a stand-alone unit? It's going to be running a minimal set of hardware: KA655 CPU Dataram 63016 16M RAM DMV11 (simply to occupy the last CD slot) DEQNA/DELQA (whichever I can scrounge cheapest, first) TQK50 (undecided) RQDX3 (with probably only the RX50 or an RX33 attached) That _is_ the right bus order, isn't it? Will either the power requirements or cooling be a problem? What if I decide to run the RD54 instead of the TK50? Is it OK to run the BA23 without skins, lying flat? And, if I want to run the second backplane and extra drives, can I just stack them? 2) I can put all the above in the BA123 lurking downstairs. But it seems a huge waste of space & power over the BA23. Plus, I don't have cooling vanes for the dual cards in the added CD slots, or enough D11 boards to go around. Plus, the BA23 I can wedge into my office, but the BA123 would have to live in the garage. Advice, discussion, points I've missed, all welcome. Doc From doc at mdrconsult.com Sat Apr 6 13:23:45 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:08 2005 Subject: Aviv TFC-925 to trade, maybe Message-ID: The previously-mentioned VAX came with this board. AW-20-859-2 TFC-925 QBUS/GCR Tape Controller Much to my disappointment, it seems to be a 9-track tape controller instead of a SCSI interface. No cables, just the board. If anybody has more detailed info, I'd like to know. If it's really not a SCSI controller, I don't plan to have a 9-track anytime soon. I'll entertain offers to trade for it. Doc From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat Apr 6 13:26:03 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:08 2005 Subject: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New" PDP-8)) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 6 Apr 2002, Tony Duell wrote: > I've never seen really fine ACME threads, but I guess they could exist. How about in the focusing mechanism in some lens mounts? From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat Apr 6 13:30:29 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:08 2005 Subject: Acoustic Couplers (was: Inter-Listmember Contact Difficulties) In-Reply-To: <20020406191438.GA8015@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: On 6 Apr 2002, R. D. Davis wrote: > This reminds me, these acoustic couplers may need some periodic > maintenance, such as putting some talcum powder on the rubber pieces > that hold the telephone handset. Some time ago I read about this > being a good way to preserve the rubber weatherstripping around car > windows (e.g., the 1970s Fords that didn't have frames around the > windows), now, I wish that I'd done that years ago. However, I was > thinking that it would just wash off when it rained and didn't do it, > and replacement weather seals now appear impossible to find. Now > then, I suspect that the replacement parts for these acoustic couplers > would be even more difficult to locate. In addition to the degeneration of the rubber, are they subject to carbon granule clumping in the microphone? From lgwalker at mts.net Sat Apr 6 13:36:24 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:08 2005 Subject: GEM-OS In-Reply-To: <200204060009.TAA20898@wordstock.com> References: <000b01c1dcf1$b3228ea0$0a00a8c0@cvendel> from "Curt Vendel" at Apr 5, 02 05:31:55 pm Message-ID: <3CAEF9D8.31957.244BB@localhost> They had a common origin in GEM 1.2. The ST GEM ran on top of TOS. The guy who wrote it for DRI (Lee Lorenzen) was one of the Xerox Parc people who really developed the GUI as well as mouse usage. Jobs glommed his Mac ideas as well as numerous coders from Parc and then sued DRI for copying the Mac. He won and DRI was forced to cripple later versions and never marketed it very seriously even tho it preceded Windows. For some reason Apple didn't go after the ST or Ventura Publisher which used GEM. Lorenzen was one of the founders of Ventura. Lawrence > And thusly Curt Vendel spake: > > > > Don't forget Diamond which is a GEM TOS "look-alike" version designed for the > > Atari 8bits which original came on disk and then came on Super Cartridge > > format. Designed by Reevesoft. > > > > Does the GEM TOS have any relationship to the GEM OS that was available > for the PC? (Other then name) > > Cheers, > > Bryan > > lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From lgwalker at mts.net Sat Apr 6 13:36:24 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:08 2005 Subject: Doug Yowza? In-Reply-To: References: <9rnsaugegvt681t1qonctnqt7glltj7ef9@4ax.com> Message-ID: <3CAEF9D8.7385.2446C@localhost> He put up a good page after he sold the domain. Sellam posted it some years back but it has disappeared from my bookmarks. Lawrence > On Fri, 5 Apr 2002, Bill Richman wrote: > > > Anyone know what became of Doug Yowza who used to be on this list? > > Hey, Bill. He sold yowza.com to a now-defunct porn monger, dropped the > Yowza pseudonym, and moved to an island where he still lurks on mailing > lists and hoards his precious old computers :-) > > Cheers, > Doug > lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat Apr 6 13:35:56 2002 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:08 2005 Subject: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New" PDP-8)) In-Reply-To: <3CAF4714.7A4FC56D@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: > > Should I toss buttress threads in? Or the whole family of oilfield > > tool joint technology? Those are threaded pipe couplings meant to be > > torqued to 50,000 ft/lb and more. You oughta see the pipe-wrench.... > I bet you don't drop that pipe-wrench on your foot :) What do you call the type of thread used for adjusting the size of pipe wrenches (and Crescent wrenches)? If nobody objects to something ON-topic: What would you call the thread of the lead screw on a Micropolis 100TPI drive? From doc at mdrconsult.com Sat Apr 6 13:36:22 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:08 2005 Subject: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New" PDP-8)) In-Reply-To: <3CAF4714.7A4FC56D@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: On Sat, 6 Apr 2002, Ben Franchuk wrote: > Doc wrote: > > > Should I toss buttress threads in? Or the whole family of oilfield > > tool joint technology? Those are threaded pipe couplings meant to be > > torqued to 50,000 ft/lb and more. You oughta see the pipe-wrench.... > > > > Doc > > I bet you don't drop that pipe-wrench on your foot :) Heck, Ben, I can't even pick it *up*! They weigh ~400lb and are hung on a counter-weighted line. I did let one run into my hand once on the swing, and carry a one-inch scar to remember it by. I was way lucky it didn't take my thumb off. Doc From jon at slurpee.org Sat Apr 6 13:40:29 2002 From: jon at slurpee.org (Jon) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:08 2005 Subject: teal indigo 2 r10k/impact? Message-ID: the answer is yes, the question is how or why? :) I picked one up out of a stack of indigo 2's thinking that someone was just being funny sticking r10k badges on the teal box, but it actually is! I was under the impression that this machine wasnt made. Let me know if you know otherwise, I'll have more info whenever I boot it up and hook it up to a monitor. It has a floptical drive too! ;) I still have that chrp prototype machine from motorola if anyone is interested. Thanks, jon From hansp at aconit.org Sat Apr 6 14:00:37 2002 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:08 2005 Subject: Software Preservation (was: SIMTEL...) References: <20020405064703.68901.qmail@web11808.mail.yahoo.com> <200204051225.NAA09857@citadel.metropolis.local> <20020405142350.A10199@eskimo.eskimo.com> <3CAE89F9.7020701@aconit.org> <3CAF2CBC.E094286C@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <3CAF53E5.10607@aconit.org> Ben Franchuk wrote: > Hans B Pufal wrote: >>Since the manchester machine is considered (by some) to be the first >>electronic stored program digital computer, then the first program to >>run on it must, by definition, be the oldest - no? > I think there was a few algorithmic notes , almost a program for > babbage's mill. Ah but this was never run and th ehardware never built, admittedly a pedantic point. > Since one has a Babbage emulator ( > http://www.fourmilab.ch/babbage/contents.html ) This is new to me, thanks for the reference and link. > and some hardware built in the 1990's is the mill the first or last? > historical computer built? I think you might be confusing Babbage's difference engine and analytical engine. A working version of the difference engine was built by the Londoen Science Musuem in the 90's. An excellent description is provided by Doron Swade in his book The Cogwheel Brain (ISBN 0316648477). It was the anlytical engine which resembles a modern computer and, to my knowledge, no one has attempted to construct one of those (yet ;-). -- hbp From doc at mdrconsult.com Sat Apr 6 13:57:27 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:08 2005 Subject: System Industries QBus board Message-ID: Unidentified Quad-Height Board: System Industries 9901-6082-a Date Code 621 stencilled on the back -- 61907 113 It has 2 40-pin connectors, 2 8-switch DIP banks and 1 4-switch bank, and 4 AMD 18-pin chips - AM2905PC / 8335DKP Lots and lots of 20-pin doohickeys - AM2908PC / 8512DMP And some Motorola 20-pin thingies - SN4LS244N / I8709BD Socketed 28-pin EPROMs, I think, with label attached: 9900-8954 9900-8955 9900-8956 Socketted smaller 20-pin ICs with labels: 9900-8953 9900-8957 9900-8958 9900-8959 9900-8960 9900-8961 9900-8962 9900-8963 9900-8964 9900-8965 9900-8967 9900-8968 9900-8969 9900-8970 9900-8971A 9900-8972A 9900-8970 There are other components, but maybe that's enough. I can't find any reference at all online. Does anyone have a clue? Doc From pat at cart-server.purdueriots.com Sat Apr 6 13:59:05 2002 From: pat at cart-server.purdueriots.com (pat@cart-server.purdueriots.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:08 2005 Subject: recreating the PDP-11 In-Reply-To: <3CAF32CA.7CCA1230@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: On Sat, 6 Apr 2002, Ben Franchuk wrote: > pat@cart-server.purdueriots.com wrote: > > > > In a project I'm thinking about starting this summer, I want to try and > > re-create a PDP-11 (or maybe a -8 or something) using either SSI logic > > and/or PAL/GALs. I would like to do the entire thing in SSI, but I fear > > that I'd quickly eat up a lot of money on the project, so where necessary > > I'd replace sections with PALs. Anyone have any good ideas? > (snip) > > 1) CPU card > > 2) Memory - SRAM > > 3) Front-panel switches > > 4) Console serial port > > 5) A few digital I/O ports > > 6) Floppy interface (anyone suggest an easy to interface controller?) > > 7) IDE controller > > Barring #7 can I sell you the nice 12/24 bit FPGA cpu I homebrewing. :) I'm trying to avoid any more integration than a PAL or EPROM would provide. Thannks for the offer anyhow. :) > The PDP-11 is way too complex for SSI logic. A reduced PDP-8 style cpu > would be possible with SSI logic. While not true SSI logic modern > EEPROMS would be very useful for control logic. Byte magazine had a few Yeah that might be a good idea. > TTL designed cpu's. Stack based languages like Forth are easy to do in > TTL. I would have done my FPGA computer in TTL but nowadays you can't > find the 74LS chips I needed anymore like 74ls382 4-bit alu. One other > option is 2901 bit slice parts. B.G.Micro seems to have a few in stock. > If I were to redesign I would use 2901 bit slice parts and EEPROMS for > control now that I know where to find 2901's. I know it's not a conventional way to do it, but if I design my own CPU I might just use a few EPROMS - at least for multiplicaion and divison, and perhaps for addition and subraction. If I only do an 8-bit proc (very likely), that's doable in a 256k*8 and a 128k*8 EPROM, running me only less than $12 for 120ns parts and only 64pins in two chips to implement all of the difficult ALU functions. AND, OR, etc should be easy and cheaper to do with 74* TTL or CMOS IC's. Either battery-backed SRAM or (E)EPROM for the state controller should be cheap, easy, and effective. Mind you, I haven't bothered looking around for prices yet, so things may actually be cheaper. > A floppy disk controller interface is fairly simple but you need a fast > CPU for the disk if some sort of DMA is not used. That is why my FPGA > computer is not quite finished , I am squeezing in DMA for HD floppies. > Also the front panel logic needs a bit of work too. I might think about using an 80xx series DMA controller and a semi-standard WDC floppy controller like those used in PeeCees so I can get easy acces to docs for them. However, I might not bother adding in the fdd stuff or hdd stuff - as long as I can get the code to fit onto an SRAM or something I should be OK. I just have to figure out what I want to do before I go any further. I just > If you really want to be authentic don't forget to add Refresh logic on > the CPU for DRAM. That's OK, I'll deal with the non-authentic feel of battery-backed SRAMs. Anyhow, the SRAM will act more like some core memory. :) -- Pat From hansp at aconit.org Sat Apr 6 14:11:23 2002 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:08 2005 Subject: Was: Re: WW fixtures (now hp67C) References: Message-ID: <3CAF566B.6000703@aconit.org> Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Sat, 6 Apr 2002, Hans B Pufal wrote: >>This page contains the link to the original spoof: >> >>http://www.hp.com:calculators-product-id+ACU-3D67cx+AEA-209.197.117.170/item/product.htm > No it doesn't because you have those funky escape characters that seem to > pop up from time to time in various listmembers' messages. Strange, the link on my message from CCCMP does load the correct page. Where are these escape chars coming from? Is it your reader perhaps? Try this one, it (should) point to the forum thread with the message with the link. You need to dig a couple of pages before arriving at the actual announcement page. http://www.hpmuseum.org/cgi-sys/cgiwrap/hpmuseum/forum.cgi?read=16292 Hope this one works for you. -- hbp From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sat Apr 6 13:58:41 2002 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:08 2005 Subject: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New" PDP-8)) Message-ID: <00ea01c1dda7$20fd1b60$b8ef9a8d@ajp166> From: Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) >On Sat, 6 Apr 2002, Tony Duell wrote: >> I've never seen really fine ACME threads, but I guess they could exist. > >How about in the focusing mechanism in some lens mounts? Leadscrews used for floppies. Transverse drives as in the ARC-5 tuning assembly. Feed screws used for linear positioners. just a few I've used... Allison From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Sat Apr 6 14:32:51 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:08 2005 Subject: Software Preservation (was: SIMTEL...) References: <20020405064703.68901.qmail@web11808.mail.yahoo.com> <200204051225.NAA09857@citadel.metropolis.local> <20020405142350.A10199@eskimo.eskimo.com> <3CAE89F9.7020701@aconit.org> <3CAF2CBC.E094286C@jetnet.ab.ca> <3CAF53E5.10607@aconit.org> Message-ID: <3CAF5B73.8DB80B8A@jetnet.ab.ca> Hans B Pufal wrote: > > Ben Franchuk wrote: > > Hans B Pufal wrote: > > >>Since the manchester machine is considered (by some) to be the first > >>electronic stored program digital computer, then the first program to > >>run on it must, by definition, be the oldest - no? > > > I think there was a few algorithmic notes , almost a program for > > babbage's mill. > > Ah but this was never run and th ehardware never built, admittedly a > pedantic point. > > > Since one has a Babbage emulator ( > > http://www.fourmilab.ch/babbage/contents.html ) > > This is new to me, thanks for the reference and link. > > > and some hardware built in the 1990's is the mill the first or last? > > historical computer built? > > I think you might be confusing Babbage's difference engine and > analytical engine. A working version of the difference engine was built > by the Londoen Science Musuem in the 90's. An excellent description is > provided by Doron Swade in his book The Cogwheel Brain (ISBN > 0316648477). It was the anlytical engine which resembles a modern > computer and, to my knowledge, no one has attempted to construct one of > those (yet ;-). > > -- hbp You are right I did get them confused as the difference engine in more well known. None the less the Difference engine is remarkable mechanical engine. Zuse's Z computers are interesting computer designs because they are from the electromechanical stage of development of computer logic. http://www.epemag.com/zuse/ -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From davebarnes at adelphia.net Sat Apr 6 14:51:25 2002 From: davebarnes at adelphia.net (David Barnes) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:08 2005 Subject: System Industries QBus board References: Message-ID: <3CAF5FCC.6A446F5C@adelphia.net> This is an SI (System Industries) interface card to the SI 9900 controller, and its variants... The 9900 allowed you to attach SMD disk drives, and it did RM (later MSCP) emulation with VMS... It was also supported in PDP's. I used to have some of these.... interesting technology.. Doc Shipley wrote: > Unidentified Quad-Height Board: > System Industries > 9901-6082-a > Date Code 621 > > stencilled on the back -- 61907 113 > > It has 2 40-pin connectors, 2 8-switch DIP banks and 1 4-switch bank, > and 4 AMD 18-pin chips - AM2905PC / 8335DKP > Lots and lots of 20-pin doohickeys - AM2908PC / 8512DMP > And some Motorola 20-pin thingies - SN4LS244N / I8709BD > Socketed 28-pin EPROMs, I think, with label attached: > 9900-8954 > 9900-8955 > 9900-8956 > Socketted smaller 20-pin ICs with labels: > 9900-8953 > 9900-8957 > 9900-8958 > 9900-8959 > 9900-8960 > 9900-8961 > 9900-8962 > 9900-8963 > 9900-8964 > 9900-8965 > 9900-8967 > 9900-8968 > 9900-8969 > 9900-8970 > 9900-8971A > 9900-8972A > 9900-8970 > > There are other components, but maybe that's enough. > > I can't find any reference at all online. Does anyone have a clue? > > Doc -- David Barnes davebarnes@adelphia.net OpenVMS , Tru64, Netbsd, Linux guru and collector of DEC equipment From davebarnes at adelphia.net Sat Apr 6 14:52:48 2002 From: davebarnes at adelphia.net (David Barnes) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:08 2005 Subject: BA23 vs. BA123 vs. 42" cabinet? References: Message-ID: <3CAF6020.AEBF07CA@adelphia.net> you can pull the BA-23's out and use them standalone.. they are simply rackmounted. Doc Shipley wrote: > Hi, all. > I went last night and picked up (OK, dragged, while groaning) the > MicroVAX Terry Murphy posted for rescue Thursday night. > I'm fairly certain he hadn't ever used it, as the description was not > terribly accurate. There was no DELQA, several of the cab kits aren't > there, memory is only 16M, etc. Nice haul, anyway. The thing came in a > 42" elephant-ear cabinet, which is in fair cosmetic shape, and without > plugging it in, I'd guess good to excellent functional shape. Some QBus > boards I can't ID, and the other goodies that came with, I'll post > separately. > > So. > I'm not enamored of the idea of running a 240VAC rack in my garage if > not necessary. That leaves me with two other ideas. > > 1) The "drawers" are simply BA23 enclosures, right? Any reason I can't > use the primary enclosure as a stand-alone unit? It's going to be > running a minimal set of hardware: > > KA655 CPU > Dataram 63016 16M RAM > DMV11 (simply to occupy the last CD slot) > DEQNA/DELQA (whichever I can scrounge cheapest, first) > TQK50 (undecided) > RQDX3 (with probably only the RX50 or an RX33 attached) > > That _is_ the right bus order, isn't it? > Will either the power requirements or cooling be a problem? What if I > decide to run the RD54 instead of the TK50? Is it OK to run the BA23 > without skins, lying flat? > And, if I want to run the second backplane and extra drives, can I > just stack them? > > 2) I can put all the above in the BA123 lurking downstairs. But it > seems a huge waste of space & power over the BA23. Plus, I don't have > cooling vanes for the dual cards in the added CD slots, or enough > D11 boards to go around. Plus, the BA23 I can wedge into my > office, but the BA123 would have to live in the garage. > > Advice, discussion, points I've missed, all welcome. > > Doc -- David Barnes davebarnes@adelphia.net OpenVMS , Tru64, Netbsd, Linux guru and collector of DEC equipment From Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com Sat Apr 6 14:53:23 2002 From: Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com (Andreas Freiherr) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:08 2005 Subject: BA23 vs. BA123 vs. 42" cabinet? References: Message-ID: <3CAF6043.874300C6@Vishay.com> Doc, in a 42" unit rack, the term _Micro_VAX wouldn't quite correctly describe the machine. > I'm not enamored of the idea of running a 240VAC rack in my garage if > not necessary. That leaves me with two other ideas. > > 1) The "drawers" are simply BA23 enclosures, right? Any reason I can't > use the primary enclosure as a stand-alone unit? It's going to be > running a minimal set of hardware: No reason not to do this. DEC made plastic covers to hold these boxes in exactly this position on a desktop. The same skin with a floor stand attached to its left side was the pedestal box. > KA655 CPU > Dataram 63016 16M RAM > DMV11 (simply to occupy the last CD slot) > DEQNA/DELQA (whichever I can scrounge cheapest, first) > TQK50 (undecided) > RQDX3 (with probably only the RX50 or an RX33 attached) Looks OK. However, you should be able to omit the DMV11 if you don't actually want to use it: the DEQNA and DELQA are dual-width modules, so each of them will nicely fit into the A/B alots without touching the C/D interconnect. > That _is_ the right bus order, isn't it? I think so, too. > Will either the power requirements or cooling be a problem? What if I > decide to run the RD54 instead of the TK50? Is it OK to run the BA23 > without skins, lying flat? Without actually adding up the power requirements: You should be able to run a RD54 _and_ a TK50 in the same box. Many MicroVAXes were configured that way. Even if the KA655 uses significantly more power than the KA630, you will most probably be safe because you don't have too many modules in the bus. > And, if I want to run the second backplane and extra drives, can I > just stack them? You can, but wouldn't it then be easier to use a BA123 right away? It provides almost exactly the same features as two BA23s, but it doesn't need the cables between the halves of the bus, it has only one power cable and switch, etc. etc. > 2) I can put all the above in the BA123 lurking downstairs. But it > seems a huge waste of space & power over the BA23. Plus, I don't have > cooling vanes for the dual cards in the added CD slots, or enough > D11 boards to go around. Plus, the BA23 I can wedge into my > office, but the BA123 would have to live in the garage. Must be a very small office. Anyway, living in the office sounds better than living in a garage, so why not go for the BA23? Andreas From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Sat Apr 6 15:15:26 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:08 2005 Subject: recreating the PDP-11 References: Message-ID: <3CAF656E.AACF1848@jetnet.ab.ca> pat@cart-server.purdueriots.com wrote: > > I know it's not a conventional way to do it, but if I design my own CPU I > might just use a few EPROMS - at least for multiplicaion and divison, and > perhaps for addition and subraction. If I only do an 8-bit proc (very > likely), that's doable in a 256k*8 and a 128k*8 EPROM, running me only > less than $12 for 120ns parts and only 64pins in two chips to implement > all of the difficult ALU functions. AND, OR, etc should be easy and > cheaper to do with 74* TTL or CMOS IC's. Either battery-backed SRAM or > (E)EPROM for the state controller should be cheap, easy, and effective. While 8 bits are OK for a 8 bit data path, you still need more than 8 bits for a practical program counter address space. That is where 12 bits are practical has room for useful instructions. Here is a nice small 8 bit FPGA design that could be easily adapted to TTL. http://www.tu-harburg.de/~setb0209/cpu/ A 8 bit FPGA computer http://germanium.ee.wustl.edu/ToyCPU/toy_cpu.html Simplex real a 8 bit TTL computer with about 120 chips. http://members.iinet.net.au/~daveb/simplex/simplex.html > I might think about using an 80xx series DMA controller and a > semi-standard WDC floppy controller like those used in PeeCees so I can > get easy acces to docs for them. However, I might not bother adding in > the fdd stuff or hdd stuff - as long as I can get the code to fit onto an > SRAM or something I should be OK. I just have to figure out what I want > to do before I go any further. A IDE disk interface may be a simpler design, and faster than a floppy. > That's OK, I'll deal with the non-authentic feel of battery-backed SRAMs. > Anyhow, the SRAM will act more like some core memory. :) I plan later to use a EEPROM bootstrap that I can load from the front panel, once I decide on a I/O device -- floppy disk or IDE drive. I got a nice hardware bootstrap that can load from serial console/paper tape (If I had a reader/punch that is), front panel or a 4 bit wide prom. -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Apr 6 15:18:45 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:08 2005 Subject: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New" PDP-8)) In-Reply-To: <00ea01c1dda7$20fd1b60$b8ef9a8d@ajp166> from "ajp166" at Apr 6, 2 02:58:41 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 547 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020406/4391ab43/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Apr 6 14:58:09 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:08 2005 Subject: Acoustic Couplers (was: Inter-Listmember Contact Difficulties) In-Reply-To: <20020406191438.GA8015@rhiannon.rddavis.org> from "R. D. Davis" at Apr 6, 2 02:14:39 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 356 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020406/03d748a5/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Apr 6 15:10:17 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:08 2005 Subject: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New" PDP-8)) In-Reply-To: from "Fred Cisin" at Apr 6, 2 11:26:03 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2639 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020406/067e5032/attachment.ksh From doc at mdrconsult.com Sat Apr 6 16:14:54 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:08 2005 Subject: BA23 vs. BA123 vs. 42" cabinet? In-Reply-To: <3CAF6043.874300C6@Vishay.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 6 Apr 2002, Andreas Freiherr wrote: > > in a 42" unit rack, the term _Micro_VAX wouldn't quite correctly > describe the machine. My sentiments exactly, but that's what the badge says.... The thing dwarfs my washing machine. > Looks OK. However, you should be able to omit the DMV11 if you don't > actually want to use it: the DEQNA and DELQA are dual-width modules, so > each of them will nicely fit into the A/B alots without touching the C/D > interconnect. I know you can run dual-heght boards in the A/B slots, but what about cooling? My MV-II has a couple of black plastic dummies in the C/D side that I assumed are for airflow direction. If those aren't strictly needed, that would simplify things somewhat. > Without actually adding up the power requirements: You should be able to > run a RD54 _and_ a TK50 in the same box. Many MicroVAXes were configured > that way. Even if the KA655 uses significantly more power than the > KA630, you will most probably be safe because you don't have too many > modules in the bus. Well, I need the RX50, and there are only 2 drive bays. I'll probably run remote filesystems either way. > > And, if I want to run the second backplane and extra drives, can I > > just stack them? > > You can, but wouldn't it then be easier to use a BA123 right away? It 2 BA23s is still smaller than a BA123. They'll stack on top of the existing BA123 easier than another BA123, too. ;) > Must be a very small office. The "office" is a converted second-floor bedroom. Currently houses the existing MV-II in BA123, a VAXstation 4000/60, a minitower firewall, my desktop PC, an IBM 4029 printer, a PS/2 model 9577, 2 RS/6000 7043s, a Mac IIci, a Mac 7200, an SGI Indigo2, a stack of Indys, a stack of VS3100s and SZ12 expansions, an HP 9000/735, a MV3100-80, a DECstation 5000/240, 2 DS3000/300x, an Altos 580, an IBM RT 6150, 2 desks, and 2 bookcases. Only 3 displays right now; I use a KVM with everything that'll do VGA/SVGA, the RT has its own, and I have an extremely versatile IBM Power17 that gets its cables switched a lot. Also several hundred CD's, boxes of drives and floppies, boxes of tapes, a stack of external tape drives, applicable keyboards & mice, yadda yadda yadda yadda. It _feels_ very small.... Doc From red at bears.org Sat Apr 6 16:57:16 2002 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:08 2005 Subject: teal indigo 2 r10k/impact? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 6 Apr 2002, Jon wrote: > the answer is yes, the question is how or why? :) I picked one up out of a > stack of indigo 2's thinking that someone was just being funny sticking > r10k badges on the teal box, but it actually is! I was under the > impression that this machine wasnt made. Well, it wasn't sold by SGI, except as a set of upgrade kits. The upgrades would've consisted of a new CPU, new PSU, new PROM, and new card cage---constituting a good deal of the innards. Most people just bought new workstations, unless they had node-locked licenses that would've been a hassle to transfer. Generally, the purple box means "Impact Ready". ok r. From hansp at aconit.org Sat Apr 6 17:16:13 2002 From: hansp at aconit.org (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:08 2005 Subject: recreating the PDP-11 References: <3CAF656E.AACF1848@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <3CAF81BD.1060904@aconit.org> Ben Franchuk wrote: > A IDE disk interface may be a simpler design, and faster than a floppy. And can be easily adapted to use CompactFlash for smaller/lower power systems. -- hbp From geoff at pkworks.com Sat Apr 6 17:18:32 2002 From: geoff at pkworks.com (Geoffrey G. Rochat) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:08 2005 Subject: Fw: Route 128 book Message-ID: <00d101c1ddc1$60ad95e0$2177f4d0@dialup> This afternoon, while copying IBM 1620 manuals for Al Kossow's Bitsavers Project, I met Mr. Alan Earls. He is writing a book on Rt 128, as he explains below, and is looking for information. I have invited him to visit both the Rhode Island Computer Museum ( www.osfn.org/ricm ) and the RetroComputing Society of Rhode Island ( www.osfn.org/rcs ), and promised to forward his request for information to friends and colleagues. If you can help the fellow, either directly or by reference, please contact him. Clearly, any tech history writer looking for information on Clevite has done his homework! -----Original Message----- From: Alan Earls To: geoff@pkworks.com Date: Saturday, April 06, 2002 4:48 PM Subject: RE: Route 128 book Geoff, Nice to meet you and chat about "oldies" (Mailboxes, Etc. in Franklin). As I mentioned I'm finishing up (by May 1) a photo/history book about Route 128 and environs in Mass. from roughly the end of WW2 until the early 90s. This isn't a scholarly effort. Rather it is an attempt to provide a popular book that will capture representative images of the "dawn" of high tech -- the post war years with the expanded defense budgets and new electronic technology --- through to the recent past. I'm still trying to locate photos of people, places, and things associated with DG, Prime, Wang and many other companies. I would also love photos from the Multics project at MIT and some photos of the early area semiconductor companies: Clevite, Sylvania, Transitron, etc. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Sincerely, Alan Earls 508 528 6930 PLEASE NOTE: Effective immediately, my email address is alanearls@attbi.com. Please be sure you update your files. Mail addressed to my "mediaone" address will no longer be delivered after Mar. 15, 2002. From doc at mdrconsult.com Sat Apr 6 17:18:14 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:08 2005 Subject: System Industries QBus board In-Reply-To: <3CAF5FCC.6A446F5C@adelphia.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 6 Apr 2002, David Barnes wrote: > This is an SI (System Industries) interface card to the SI 9900 controller, > and its variants... The 9900 allowed you to attach SMD disk drives, and > it did RM (later MSCP) emulation with VMS... It was also supported in > PDP's. I used to have some of these.... interesting technology.. Ahhh, the dawn begins to break. There's an empty 4-bay drive drawer that doesn't have any visble connectors, and a very beefy PSU/transformer set. There are also a couple of Berg connectors on the main bulkhead that I haven't ID'ed. The one descriptive link I've found for a Systems Industries 9900 refers to "its own rackmounted drawer." So, I have 2 identical QBus boards, and maybe the drive drawer. What components (including drive types) are missing here? Thanks for the information, too. That's miles farther along than I started. Doc From jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org Sat Apr 6 17:26:22 2002 From: jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org (James B. DiGriz) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:08 2005 Subject: Software Preservation (was: SIMTEL...) References: <20020405064703.68901.qmail@web11808.mail.yahoo.com> <200204051225.NAA09857@citadel.metropolis.local> <20020405142350.A10199@eskimo.eskimo.com> <3CAE89F9.7020701@aconit.org> <3CAF2CBC.E094286C@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <3CAF841E.9010908@dragonsweb.org> Ben Franchuk wrote: > > I think there was a few algorithmic notes , almost a program for > babbage's mill. > Since one has a Babbage emulator ( > http://www.fourmilab.ch/babbage/contents.html ) > and some hardware built in the 1990's is the mill the first or last? > historical computer built? "...a plan for how the engine might calculate Bernoulli numbers."[1] Written by Ada Byron, Lady Lovelace. Thanks for the emulator link. jbdigriz [1] http://www.well.com/user/adatoole/bio.htm From mtapley at swri.edu Sat Apr 6 14:44:42 2002 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:08 2005 Subject: Computers Manufactured in 1986 (UnixPC) Message-ID: >Thanks to the assistance of a fellow lister >(hi Mark!) I finally have one now, which I will keep forever. > > -Dave Hi Dave! Putting people together with computers they love just (snif!) makes me feel all gushy inside ... but I in turn have to pass the thanks in this case on to William Fulmor, without whom I'd know nothing about UnixPC's, and who is responsible for my having access to any at all. And more generally to many other listmembers (Hi Tony, Jeff, Zane, Claude, William W, Eric, MrBill, Doc, Don, Megan, Terry, and others I've reprehensibly left out ....) who have given me invaluable assistance in the past. This is a truly great community to be part of. BTW, for those with whom I've dropped conversations right in the middle concerning my Stylewriter, apologies. Work has gotten unusually time-consuming for a while and the Stylewriter is still sitting right where it was, waiting for me to get back to it. I'll get there eventually, but it'll be a while more. - Mark From curt at atarimuseum.com Sat Apr 6 17:43:52 2002 From: curt at atarimuseum.com (Curt Vendel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:08 2005 Subject: GEM-OS References: <000b01c1dcf1$b3228ea0$0a00a8c0@cvendel> from "Curt Vendel" at Apr 5, 02 05:31:55 pm <3CAEF9D8.31957.244BB@localhost> Message-ID: <003e01c1ddc4$ea8110a0$0a00a8c0@cvendel> Here's an interesting history tidbit... the Tramiels were so strapped for cash when they took over Atari, that in order to pay DRI for the work on GEM 68K for the ST computers.... they paid DRI with the VAX 11/750 located in the Atari Grass Valley R&D lab which was closed shortly after. I spoke with Ron Milner, one of the original Atari engineers and he explained how one day Gary Kildall and crew were in the R&D computer room disconnecting the Vax and was explained that it was their "payment" for developing a new OS for the Tramiels. Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lawrence Walker" To: Sent: Saturday, April 06, 2002 2:36 PM Subject: Re: GEM-OS > They had a common origin in GEM 1.2. The ST GEM ran on top of TOS. > The guy who wrote it for DRI (Lee Lorenzen) was one of the Xerox Parc > people who really developed the GUI as well as mouse usage. Jobs > glommed his Mac ideas as well as numerous coders from Parc and then > sued DRI for copying the Mac. He won and DRI was forced to cripple later > versions and never marketed it very seriously even tho it preceded Windows. > For some reason Apple didn't go after the ST or Ventura Publisher which > used GEM. Lorenzen was one of the founders of Ventura. > > Lawrence > > > And thusly Curt Vendel spake: > > > > > > Don't forget Diamond which is a GEM TOS "look-alike" version designed for the > > > Atari 8bits which original came on disk and then came on Super Cartridge > > > format. Designed by Reevesoft. > > > > > > > Does the GEM TOS have any relationship to the GEM OS that was available > > for the PC? (Other then name) > > > > Cheers, > > > > Bryan > > > > > > > lgwalker@mts.net > bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From sloboyko at yahoo.com Sat Apr 6 19:19:32 2002 From: sloboyko at yahoo.com (Loboyko Steve) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:08 2005 Subject: recreating the PDP-11 In-Reply-To: <3CAF81BD.1060904@aconit.org> Message-ID: <20020407011932.58905.qmail@web11808.mail.yahoo.com> The SBC6120 (PDP-8 board) uses an IDE drive in LBA mode, simply stating, "on address X read or write these 256 16(12) bit words". Because this obviously requires a great deal of intelligence on the drive's part, (certainly more than the computer itself has) I suppose that philosophically speaking, this is "cheating".... --- Hans B Pufal wrote: > Ben Franchuk wrote: > > > A IDE disk interface may be a simpler design, and > faster than a floppy. > > And can be easily adapted to use CompactFlash for > smaller/lower power > systems. > > -- hbp > > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ From bill at timeguy.com Sat Apr 6 19:41:36 2002 From: bill at timeguy.com (Bill Richman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:08 2005 Subject: ADM3a Keyboard Photo Needed In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20020406103144.014cc808@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <20020406194052.V69925-100000@outpost.timeguy.com> If you'd be so kind as to send a picture of one over, I'll see if it matches up. 5MP is fine! :-) On Sat, 6 Apr 2002, Roger Merchberger wrote: > Rumor has it that Bill Richman may have mentioned these words: > >Actually, it's an ADM3A+ (plus)... > > [snippage] > > Is the keyboard similar enough to an ADM31 to be helpful to you? And if so, > is 5 megapixel good enough quality? (;-) > > Laterz, > Roger "Merch" Merchberger > -- > Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers > Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. > > If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead > disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. > > From healyzh at aracnet.com Sat Apr 6 19:42:48 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:08 2005 Subject: Palm Pilot & DEC Module List? Message-ID: I seem to recall that a couple years ago someone converted the "Field Guide" to something that could be read on a Palm Pilot. Am I remembering correctly, and does anyone have a copy? I just got a Sony T615C, and one of the must have items for it is going to be the Field Guide! Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From mrbill at mrbill.net Sat Apr 6 19:44:21 2002 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:08 2005 Subject: FREE STUFF in Austin, TX Message-ID: <20020407014421.GU26436@mrbill.net> Still got a pile of FREE STUFF in Austin, TX. People have emailed saying they're interested, then drop off the face of the earth. Please dont contact me unless you are serious about picking any of these up. See pictures at http://www.mrbill.net/~mrbill/freestuff The GRiD laptops are taken, the DELNI and Sun VME boards are still available. List of the boards: 501 1767 - 4/6x0 memory board 501 1855 - IPI controller (x4) 501 1221 - Comm Processor II 501 1203 - ALM-2 501 1217 - SCSI controller (3row DB50) (x2) And these non-Sun-branded boards; ED5P182-30/G1 - FDDI ED5P182-32/G1 SUN DKHS - FDDI (x2) pics at http://www.mrbill.net/~mrbill/fddi/ Bill -- Bill Bradford mrbill@mrbill.net Austin, TX From davebarnes at adelphia.net Sat Apr 6 20:24:29 2002 From: davebarnes at adelphia.net (David Barnes) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:08 2005 Subject: System Industries QBus board References: Message-ID: <3CAFADDC.B7FCD381@adelphia.net> sounds like you got everything but the drives, and of course an actual SI 9900 disk controller, ths 9900 controller was a rackmount box a little smaller than a rackmount BA23 would look like... not as deep front to back.... the SMD drives hooked to this controller, then the qbus (or UNIBUS) interface cards connected to the controller itself... they supported an early cluster called SI CLUSTOR which predated VMS Clustering, and also allowed multiple PDP 11's to share the same disks... interesting to say the least... unfortunately I disposed of all my SI docs and software in 95... Doc wrote: > On Sat, 6 Apr 2002, David Barnes wrote: > > > This is an SI (System Industries) interface card to the SI 9900 controller, > > and its variants... The 9900 allowed you to attach SMD disk drives, and > > it did RM (later MSCP) emulation with VMS... It was also supported in > > PDP's. I used to have some of these.... interesting technology.. > > Ahhh, the dawn begins to break. There's an empty 4-bay drive drawer > that doesn't have any visble connectors, and a very beefy > PSU/transformer set. There are also a couple of Berg connectors on the > main bulkhead that I haven't ID'ed. The one descriptive link I've found > for a Systems Industries 9900 refers to "its own rackmounted drawer." > So, I have 2 identical QBus boards, and maybe the drive drawer. What > components (including drive types) are missing here? > Thanks for the information, too. That's miles farther along than I > started. > > Doc -- David Barnes davebarnes@adelphia.net OpenVMS , Tru64, Netbsd, Linux guru and collector of DEC equipment From bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca Sat Apr 6 21:43:16 2002 From: bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca (Ben Franchuk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:08 2005 Subject: recreating the PDP-11 References: <20020407011932.58905.qmail@web11808.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3CAFC054.6B516148@jetnet.ab.ca> Loboyko Steve wrote: > > The SBC6120 (PDP-8 board) uses an IDE drive in LBA > mode, simply stating, "on address X read or write > these 256 16(12) bit words". Because this obviously > requires a great deal of intelligence on the drive's > part, (certainly more than the computer itself has) I > suppose that philosophically speaking, this is > "cheating".... Bigger YES! Cheating no! Other than stupid floppies and the old HD's on the PC where you just get raw data from the drive, almost all the interfaces for disks have been - set track / sector / head and buffer address then a read/write a block to memory command. With a machine as small as pdp-8 you had very dense I/O routines compared to today's machines that need 64kb?? of bios for basic I/O. The last page (128 bytes??) was often all the room you had for a disk driver that often swapped the entire 4k of memory to and from disk. As for the cpu on the HD it is more powerful than a pdp-8 but then HD's are a hell of a lot faster than in the 1960's that were often only FM formatted hard sectored machines. -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html From dpeschel at eskimo.com Sat Apr 6 21:54:43 2002 From: dpeschel at eskimo.com (Derek Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:08 2005 Subject: need the use of a scanner with sheet feeder (near Seattle if possible) Message-ID: <20020406195443.A2542@eskimo.eskimo.com> Does anyone have one? I have borrowed two large manuals. I'd like to scan them, as opposed to photocopying, but it would have to be quick and reliable (so I can get good results the first time and return the manuals in good shape). Thanks, -- Derek From acme_ent at bellsouth.net Sat Apr 6 23:04:02 2002 From: acme_ent at bellsouth.net (Glen Goodwin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:08 2005 Subject: 2016 (was: ZX81 and 6116) Message-ID: <20020407050529.JYER24358.imf12bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> > From: Hans Franke > If you got some 2016s laying around, I'd be more than willing > to frre you of this burden. I would send a few of them to you, but wouldn't it be cheaper for you to buy them locally? > You realy think I'd dump any computer stuff ? Hey, if you would steal the RAM from a ZX81, who knows what you might do ;>) Glen 0/0 From univac2 at earthlink.net Sat Apr 6 23:31:47 2002 From: univac2 at earthlink.net (Owen Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:08 2005 Subject: Palm Pilot & DEC Module List? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: on 4/6/02 7:42 PM, Zane H. Healy at healyzh@aracnet.com wrote: > I seem to recall that a couple years ago someone converted the "Field > Guide" to something that could be read on a Palm Pilot. Am I remembering > correctly, and does anyone have a copy? I just got a Sony T615C, and one > of the must have items for it is going to be the Field Guide! I think it's at: http://www.dadaboom.com/pdp11/ -- Owen Robertson From tom at sba.miami.edu Sat Apr 6 23:29:55 2002 From: tom at sba.miami.edu (Tom Leffingwell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:08 2005 Subject: CD-ROM on RT-11? In-Reply-To: <3820E2042B6ED5118DC200D0B78EDC4706655A@exc-reo1.yagosys.com> Message-ID: I did that too, but I also wanted need to manipulate the file system, because the floppy had v4.0 on it, and I had v5.3 in another dsk file. On Fri, 5 Apr 2002, Carlini, Antonio wrote: > If all you want is a straight copy of an RT-11 > disk and you are using OpenVMS, why not use > BACKUP/PHYSICAL? > > I would suggest: > > $ BACKUP/PHYSICAL device: filename.BCK/SAVE > > This would save your floppy contents in filename.BCK. > Then restore with: > > $ BACKUP/PHYSICAL filename.BCK/SAVE device: > > I don't have the necessary h/w anymore to > try this, but it should work. I've certainly done > something similar with RX50 WPS floppies and I've > seen others do the same with DECmate III floppies. > > The added advantage is that you end up with > a block-by-block copy of your floppy that > you can save on CD or whatever. > > Antonio > From edick at idcomm.com Sat Apr 6 23:52:35 2002 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:08 2005 Subject: 2016 (was: ZX81 and 6116) References: <20020407050529.JYER24358.imf12bis.bellsouth.net@thegoodw> Message-ID: <001901c1ddf8$6b4386e0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> There's nothing special about a 2016, as compared with a 6116. The latter was MUCH more common, and used less power. The 2016 is an NMOS device, while the 6116 is CMOS. Both of these are common as dirt, BTW. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Glen Goodwin" To: Sent: Saturday, April 06, 2002 10:04 PM Subject: Re: 2016 (was: ZX81 and 6116) > > From: Hans Franke > > > If you got some 2016s laying around, I'd be more than willing > > to frre you of this burden. > > I would send a few of them to you, but wouldn't it be cheaper for you to > buy them locally? > > > You realy think I'd dump any computer stuff ? > > Hey, if you would steal the RAM from a ZX81, who knows what you might do > ;>) > > Glen > 0/0 > > From doc at mdrconsult.com Sun Apr 7 01:46:50 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:08 2005 Subject: Need Micro/RSX and PDP-11/53 help Message-ID: Continuing saga of Friday nights haul: When I emailed Terry that I'd pick up the MicroVAX, and we made the arrangements, he told me, "By the way, as long as you haul off that rack, you're welcome to take the PDP-11 and the PDP-8." Naturally, I made that further concession.... The PDP-8/A is in pretty sorry shape, at first glance. It's on hold till I have time to go over it and figure out what's there and what it needs. Probably a couple of weeks. Anyway. the 11/53 is in good shape, inspected, cleaned, and back together. It has Micro/RSX installed on DU0, and not only is it Greek to me, but I've been Googling for 3 hours, and haven't found a coherent description or command reference. Moreover, I don't see any software at all available to run on Micro/RSX. Are RSX-11 utilities binary-compatible? Any suggestions as to a next step? Pointers at the Micro/RSX Users' Group would be handy. Doc From caprio at dcms.com Sun Apr 7 01:24:57 2002 From: caprio at dcms.com (Don Caprio) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:08 2005 Subject: Need help with Jumpering Imsai SIO board Message-ID: <200204070724.g377Ovx2016828@dcms.com> I have an Imsai SIO Rev 3 serial card. I have the docs but the last section of the manual may be missing. I've read the section on how to set the two jumpers for the baord address but I'm having trouble translating. Could someone who knows this subject please help me to figure out the address of this SIO card? Jumps on the baord are set like this: C7 (port Select 1) 1 16 2 ---- 15 3 14 4 ---- 13 5 12 6 ---- 11 7 ---- 10 8 9 D6 (port Select 0) 1 16 2 15 3 16 4 13 5 ---- 12 6 11 7 10 8 ---- 9 Here is the s-ction out of the manual: C7 A7 --+---------- 1 16 ------+---------| |___|>o--- 2 15 ______| | A6 --+---------- 3 14 ------+---------| |___|>o--- 4 13 ______| | A5 --+---------- 5 12 ------+---------| |___|>o--- 6 11 ______| | A4 --+---------- 7 10 ------+---------| |___|>o--- 8 9 ______| |---) | )o------- --- 1 16 ------+---------|---) --- 2 15 ______| | --- 3 14 ------+---------| --- 4 13 ______| | I/O --- 5 12 ------+---------| MM --- 6 11 ______| | MM --- 7 10 ------+---------| I/O --- 8 9 ______| | D6 OK, so I know that A7=0, A6=0, A5=0 and A4=1, It's not Memmory mapped IO so jumpers go on pins 5 and 6. So where are A3-A0, on D6?. I think the address is: A7 0 A6 0 A5 0 A4 1 A3? 0 A2? 0 A1? 1 A0? 1 and the answer is 013H ???? "The board address is selected by jumpers or a DIP switch in locattion C7 and D6. There are two cases for which this board may be jumpered: 1) to respond to Input/output instructions and 2) to respond to memory access instructions. The case of input/output instructions will be treated first. In selection location D6 pins 8 and 9 must be jumpered together and pins 5 and 12 must be jumbered together. The user must jumper socket C7 so when the desired I/O Port address appeas on the address lines, the inputs to the NAND gate from bits A4 through a7 are high. If, for instance, address bit 6 is desired to be a 0 when the board responds, then pins 4 and and 13 would be jumpered together. If address bit A6 was desired to be 1, then either pins 3 and 14 may be jumpered together or 3 and 13 may be jumpered together, since 13 and 14 are tied to the common address selection input. It is suggested, however, that when jumpers are being used, pins 3 and 13 be connected together to provide a easy visual indication of whether the address bit is a 1 or 0 since that will correspond to whether jumpers are slanted or straight across the jumper socket." ... Thanks for the help. From vance at ikickass.org Sun Apr 7 03:01:17 2002 From: vance at ikickass.org (Sridhar the POWERful) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:08 2005 Subject: Need Micro/RSX and PDP-11/53 help In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 7 Apr 2002, Doc Shipley wrote: > When I emailed Terry that I'd pick up the MicroVAX, and we made the > arrangements, he told me, "By the way, as long as you haul off that > rack, you're welcome to take the PDP-11 and the PDP-8." Naturally, I > made that further concession.... I hate you, you know that? 8-) Peace... Sridhar From jismay at gkar.unixboxen.net Sun Apr 7 05:13:11 2002 From: jismay at gkar.unixboxen.net (jismay@gkar.unixboxen.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:08 2005 Subject: ClassicCmp Transportation Message-ID: <20020407031310.A2000@unixboxen.net> It's not great as far as hauling large items, but I have a '66 Mustang that has proven excellent for hauling incredibly vast quantities of smaller stuff. Even a rackmount SUN 3/280 on the from seat. An On Topic to boot... -- Love of the Goddess makes the poet go mad he goes to his death and in death is made wise. Robert Graves -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 240 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020407/c3a3fff2/attachment.bin From carlos_murillo at epm.net.co Sun Apr 7 09:06:00 2002 From: carlos_murillo at epm.net.co (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:08 2005 Subject: Was: Re: WW fixtures (now hp67C) In-Reply-To: <005001c1dd7b$b55d6fc0$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> References: Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20020407100600.00fa68f4@pop1.epm.net.co> At 09:59 AM 4/6/02 -0500, you wrote: >+AD4- how many of you fell for the hp67c ? > >Is a link still available? > >John A. http://www.hp.com:calculators-product-id=67cx@209.197.117.170/item/product2. htm sigh. -------------------------------------------------------------- Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo@nospammers.ieee.org From dquebbeman at acm.org Sun Apr 7 09:27:01 2002 From: dquebbeman at acm.org (Douglas H. Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:08 2005 Subject: need the use of a scanner with sheet feeder (near Seattle if possible) Message-ID: <000501c1de40$4c5cd4f0$60eeffcc@Shadow> > > Does anyone have one? I have borrowed two large manuals. > I'd like to scan them, as opposed to photocopying, but > it would have to be quick and reliable (so I can get > good results the first time and return the manuals > in good shape). I don't know what Al does, but CDC manuals have "taint", a small piece of paper that forms the outside edge of that center, long-oval-shaped hole. The taint gets torn by sheet feeders... so if you want to return them in the same condition as you borrwed them, I'd have to recommend against the sheet feeder. :( From dquebbeman at acm.org Sun Apr 7 09:36:42 2002 From: dquebbeman at acm.org (Douglas H. Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:08 2005 Subject: Was: Re: WW fixtures (now hp67C) Message-ID: <000b01c1de41$a68ca440$60eeffcc@Shadow> > At 09:59 AM 4/6/02 -0500, you wrote: > >+AD4- how many of you fell for the hp67c ? > > > >Is a link still available? > > > >John A. > > > http://www.hp.com:calculators-product-id=67cx@209.197.117.170/item/product2. htm Other than the fact that HP dumped the calculator line, and thus this had to be bogus, was there something particularly funny about it that I'm missing? -dq From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sun Apr 7 09:40:58 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:08 2005 Subject: need the use of a scanner with sheet feeder (near Seattle if possible) In-Reply-To: <20020406195443.A2542@eskimo.eskimo.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020407104058.00794930@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> Derek, I've got several large Fujitsu scanners with automatic sheet feeders that I'll donate to anyone that wants them for a project like this. Unfortunately I'm located in central Florida and these things are HEAVY so i'd prefer not to ship them. Joe At 07:54 PM 4/6/02 -0800, you wrote: >Does anyone have one? I have borrowed two large manuals. I'd like to >scan them, as opposed to photocopying, but it would have to be quick and >reliable (so I can get good results the first time and return the manuals >in good shape). > >Thanks, > >-- Derek > From rigdonj at cfl.rr.com Sun Apr 7 10:04:14 2002 From: rigdonj at cfl.rr.com (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:08 2005 Subject: preserving rubber was Re: Acoustic Couplers (was: Inter-Listmember Contact Difficulties) In-Reply-To: References: <20020406191438.GA8015@rhiannon.rddavis.org> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020407110414.0083c9d0@pop-server.cfl.rr.com> At 11:30 AM 4/6/02 -0800, you wrote: >On 6 Apr 2002, R. D. Davis wrote: >> This reminds me, these acoustic couplers may need some periodic >> maintenance, such as putting some talcum powder on the rubber pieces >> that hold the telephone handset. Some time ago I read about this >> being a good way to preserve the rubber weatherstripping around car >> windows (e.g., the 1970s Fords that didn't have frames around the >> windows), now, I wish that I'd done that years ago. However, I was >> thinking that it would just wash off when it rained and didn't do it, >> and replacement weather seals now appear impossible to find. Now >> then, I suspect that the replacement parts for these acoustic couplers >> would be even more difficult to locate. Silicon grease is supposed to be a good preservative for rubber. A friend of mine has been using it on the rubber around the windows in his car for years and swears by it. Joe From allain at panix.com Sun Apr 7 11:14:14 2002 From: allain at panix.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:09 2005 Subject: Was: Re: WW fixtures (now hp67C) References: <000b01c1de41$a68ca440$60eeffcc@Shadow> Message-ID: <008101c1de4f$43596800$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> >> Is a link still available? > http://www.hp.com:calculators-product-id=67cx@209.197.117.170/item/product2. htm > Other than the fact that HP dumped the calculator line, and > thus this had to be bogus, was there something particularly > funny about it that I'm missing? Thanks to all who responded. (the reference: a crosslink, it seems, to http://www.hpmuseum.com/item/product2.htm ) I'm glad I saw it, although it is a might humor impaired, the three line LED display came out well, as did the quadruple shifted function keys, and the lightyear to parsec converter. An actual HP01 seems a greater accomplishment than fiction, by comparison. Long live _the preserved_ HP calc! John A. From davebarnes at adelphia.net Sun Apr 7 11:30:40 2002 From: davebarnes at adelphia.net (David Barnes) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:09 2005 Subject: Need Micro/RSX and PDP-11/53 help References: Message-ID: <3CB07430.87A8847F@adelphia.net> Install BSD Unix on the 11/53... Doc Shipley wrote: > Continuing saga of Friday nights haul: > > When I emailed Terry that I'd pick up the MicroVAX, and we made the > arrangements, he told me, "By the way, as long as you haul off that > rack, you're welcome to take the PDP-11 and the PDP-8." Naturally, I > made that further concession.... > The PDP-8/A is in pretty sorry shape, at first glance. It's on hold > till I have time to go over it and figure out what's there and what it > needs. Probably a couple of weeks. > Anyway. the 11/53 is in good shape, inspected, cleaned, and back > together. It has Micro/RSX installed on DU0, and not only is it Greek > to me, but I've been Googling for 3 hours, and haven't found a coherent > description or command reference. > Moreover, I don't see any software at all available to run on > Micro/RSX. Are RSX-11 utilities binary-compatible? Any suggestions as > to a next step? Pointers at the Micro/RSX Users' Group would be handy. > > Doc -- David Barnes davebarnes@adelphia.net OpenVMS , Tru64, Netbsd, Linux guru and collector of DEC equipment From doc at mdrconsult.com Sun Apr 7 11:40:36 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:09 2005 Subject: Need Micro/RSX and PDP-11/53 help In-Reply-To: <3CB07430.87A8847F@adelphia.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 7 Apr 2002, David Barnes wrote: > Install BSD Unix on the 11/53... Heh. Pretty much my own thought in the matter. I'm probably going to swap drives and leave Micro/RSX on this disk, but I don't have time to learn a totally foreign language right now. If I did, I'd probably be more inclined to learn CP/M on this Altos. Doc From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Apr 7 13:23:08 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:09 2005 Subject: Need help with Jumpering Imsai SIO board In-Reply-To: <200204070724.g377Ovx2016828@dcms.com> from "Don Caprio" at Apr 6, 2 11:24:57 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3238 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020407/6f9b6ee1/attachment.ksh From foo at siconic.com Sun Apr 7 05:50:03 2002 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:09 2005 Subject: Doug Yowza? In-Reply-To: <3CAEF9D8.7385.2446C@localhost> Message-ID: On Sat, 6 Apr 2002, Lawrence Walker wrote: > He put up a good page after he sold the domain. Sellam posted it some > years back but it has disappeared from my bookmarks. It used to be www.yowza.com and featured some tasty babes trying to entice you to join (it didn't work on me). Now the domain is gone altogether. > > On Fri, 5 Apr 2002, Bill Richman wrote: > > > > > Anyone know what became of Doug Yowza who used to be on this list? > > > > Hey, Bill. He sold yowza.com to a now-defunct porn monger, dropped the > > Yowza pseudonym, and moved to an island where he still lurks on mailing > > lists and hoards his precious old computers :-) > > > > Cheers, > > Doug Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * From jrice at texoma.net Sun Apr 7 14:27:23 2002 From: jrice at texoma.net (James Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:09 2005 Subject: Lisa 2 Video Problem Message-ID: <3CB09D9B.2040005@texoma.net> Has anyone ever repaired a Lisa 2 with the following symptoms: A distorted video image on the upper 1/3 of the screen? I'm the high bidder on a Lisa 2 on ebay url: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2013387255&r=0&t=0&showTutorial=0&ed=1018246402&indexURL=0&rd If you look at the screen shots, the video screen is distorted very similar to what my compact macs do with cold solder joints on the analog board. I figure that it's either a similar problem, dirty contacts or bad caps on the board. Just wondering if anyone has seen similar symptoms. I think I can get a Lisa video board from a friend in DFW who has a cache of Lisa's in storage. The guy's Apple collection is awesome. He has several of absolutely every product Apple ever made including a lot of prototype stuff that was never publicly released. I usually don't attempt board level repair, but for a Lisa, I'll make an exception. I thought Tony might have done one before. Have you ever seen this one before Tony? I think a Lisa would fit in perfectly with my NeXT's, Sun's, Indy and BeBox. Thanks, James You mean you're supposed to read the manual first? From jhellige at earthlink.net Sun Apr 7 14:48:27 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:09 2005 Subject: Lisa 2 Video Problem In-Reply-To: <3CB09D9B.2040005@texoma.net> References: <3CB09D9B.2040005@texoma.net> Message-ID: >Has anyone ever repaired a Lisa 2 with the following symptoms: A >distorted video image on the upper 1/3 of the screen? I'm the high >bidder on a Lisa 2 on ebay The first thing to do would be to pop the top off of the Lisa and check the 4-5 video adjustment dials along the top of the video board, as well as the adjustment pot on the PSU. To me it definately looks like at the very least the size/position/sync adjustments are out of whack. If you get this Lisa, let me know and as soon as I get the two CD's back from a local guy I've loaned them to, I'll make you copies of them. They have all kinds of PDF's, disk images, and other Lisa info on them. BTW James, what version of Irix are you running on your Indigo2? Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From dpeschel at eskimo.com Sun Apr 7 14:49:54 2002 From: dpeschel at eskimo.com (Derek Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:09 2005 Subject: need the use of a scanner with sheet feeder (near Seattle if possible) In-Reply-To: <000501c1de40$4c5cd4f0$60eeffcc@Shadow>; from dquebbeman@acm.org on Sun, Apr 07, 2002 at 10:27:01AM -0400 References: <000501c1de40$4c5cd4f0$60eeffcc@Shadow> Message-ID: <20020407124953.A20565@eskimo.eskimo.com> On Sun, Apr 07, 2002 at 10:27:01AM -0400, Douglas H. Quebbeman wrote: > > > > Does anyone have one? I have borrowed two large manuals. > > I'd like to scan them, as opposed to photocopying, but > > it would have to be quick and reliable (so I can get > > good results the first time and return the manuals > > in good shape). > > I don't know what Al does, but CDC manuals have "taint", > a small piece of paper that forms the outside edge of > that center, long-oval-shaped hole. The taint gets torn > by sheet feeders... so if you want to return them in the > same condition as you borrwed them, I'd have to recommend > against the sheet feeder. Hopefully Al will explain his methods soon. I don't see any taint on mine -- all the holes look the same shape to me. Can you give example titles? Perhaps they changed their methods after a certain date. -- Derek From louiss at gate.net Sun Apr 7 15:00:06 2002 From: louiss at gate.net (Louis Schulman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:09 2005 Subject: Lisa 2 Video Problem In-Reply-To: <3CB09D9B.2040005@texoma.net> Message-ID: The adjustings pots at the top of the video board often need to be cleaned or replaced. I also had to replace a voltage regulator on one board, iirc. Louis On Sun, 07 Apr 2002 14:27:23 -0500, James Rice wrote: #Has anyone ever repaired a Lisa 2 with the following symptoms: A #distorted video image on the upper 1/3 of the screen? I'm the high #bidder on a Lisa 2 on ebay # #url: #http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2013387255&r=0&t=0&showTutorial=0&ed=1018246 402&indexURL=0&rd # # #If you look at the screen shots, the video screen is distorted very #similar to what my compact macs do with cold solder joints on the analog #board. I figure that it's either a similar problem, dirty contacts or #bad caps on the board. Just wondering if anyone has seen similar #symptoms. I think I can get a Lisa video board from a friend in DFW who #has a cache of Lisa's in storage. The guy's Apple collection is #awesome. He has several of absolutely every product Apple ever made #including a lot of prototype stuff that was never publicly released. # #I usually don't attempt board level repair, but for a Lisa, I'll make an #exception. I thought Tony might have done one before. Have you ever #seen this one before Tony? # #I think a Lisa would fit in perfectly with my NeXT's, Sun's, Indy and #BeBox. # #Thanks, # #James #You mean you're supposed to read the manual first? # # From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Apr 7 15:09:34 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:09 2005 Subject: Was: Re: WW fixtures (now hp67C) In-Reply-To: <008101c1de4f$43596800$8a0101ac@ibm23xhr06> from "John Allain" at Apr 7, 2 12:14:14 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1293 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020407/87b1ff58/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Apr 7 15:31:20 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:09 2005 Subject: Lisa 2 Video Problem In-Reply-To: from "Jeff Hellige" at Apr 7, 2 03:48:27 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1863 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020407/193f64e9/attachment.ksh From Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com Sun Apr 7 15:39:24 2002 From: Lee.Davison at merlincommunications.com (Davison, Lee) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:09 2005 Subject: Lisa 2 Video Problem Message-ID: <707AA588EE28D311BCD50090276D7D0002146E1F@BUSH02> >From the pic I'd put my money on the monitor PSU mains smothing cap being o/c. Lee. > Has anyone ever repaired a Lisa 2 with the following symptoms: A > distorted video image on the upper 1/3 of the screen? I'm the high > bidder on a Lisa 2 on ebay > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- This email is intended only for the above named addressee(s). The information contained in this email may contain information which is confidential. The views expressed in this email are personal to the sender and do not in any way reflect the views of the company. If you have received this email and you are not a named addressee please delete it from your system and contact Merlin Communications International IT Department on +44 20 7344 5888. ________________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ________________________________________________________________________ From jrice at texoma.net Sun Apr 7 15:44:04 2002 From: jrice at texoma.net (James Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:09 2005 Subject: Lisa 2 Video Problem References: <3CB09D9B.2040005@texoma.net> Message-ID: <3CB0AF94.7080603@texoma.net> I'd appreciate that very much. Thanks! Jeff Hellige wrote: >> Has anyone ever repaired a Lisa 2 with the following symptoms: A >> distorted video image on the upper 1/3 of the screen? I'm the high >> bidder on a Lisa 2 on ebay > > > The first thing to do would be to pop the top off of the Lisa and > check the 4-5 video adjustment dials along the top of the video board, > as well as the adjustment pot on the PSU. To me it definately looks > like at the very least the size/position/sync adjustments are out of > whack. If you get this Lisa, let me know and as soon as I get the two > CD's back from a local guy I've loaned them to, I'll make you copies > of them. They have all kinds of PDF's, disk images, and other Lisa > info on them. > > BTW James, what version of Irix are you running on your Indigo2? > > Jeff From jhellige at earthlink.net Sun Apr 7 15:55:17 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:09 2005 Subject: Lisa 2 Video Problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > > The first thing to do would be to pop the top off of the Lisa >> and check the 4-5 video adjustment dials along the top of the video >> board, as well as the adjustment pot on the PSU. To me it definately > >Please don't!. If you have a real fault (and this sounds like one), it >will not be cured by making adjustments. Once you've twiddled everything >you will still have to cure the real fault and then re-align everything. >The only times you should adjust presets are (a) after some other person >has been fiddling about and (b) after replacing components in the >relevant part of the circuit. And to twiddle PSU presets without knowing >just what you are doing is a good way to wipe out the entire set of chips >in the machine. The adjustment pot on the PSU I was referring to is part of the video adjustment. It's reached from the rear of the machine through a small hole in the back panel. Changing it's value is actually part of the video alignment procedure after replacing the video board or adding the XL screenkit modification. The pots on the video board itself may also drift and need to be readjusted. This is easily done by 'eyeballing' the video output as you would with the vertical and horizontal sync adjustments on another monitor or TV. I once had to open up a early Panasonic multisync monitor and do this. Everyone else thought the monitor was bad due to it being totally out of sync. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From jrice at texoma.net Sun Apr 7 16:10:54 2002 From: jrice at texoma.net (James Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:09 2005 Subject: Lisa 2 Video Problem References: Message-ID: <3CB0B5DE.10903@texoma.net> I downloaded and printed the Sun Remarketing Repair manual for the Lisa as well as a parts manual with exploded views. Actually, I did this three years ago when a friend was going to give me a non-functioning Lisa, but he changed his mind. If I get it, I'll check it out and probably will need to bug you about it a little. Thanks, James Jeff Hellige wrote: >> > The first thing to do would be to pop the top off of the Lisa >> >>> and check the 4-5 video adjustment dials along the top of the video >>> board, as well as the adjustment pot on the PSU. To me it definately >> >> >> Please don't!. If you have a real fault (and this sounds like one), it >> will not be cured by making adjustments. Once you've twiddled everything >> you will still have to cure the real fault and then re-align everything. >> The only times you should adjust presets are (a) after some other person >> has been fiddling about and (b) after replacing components in the >> relevant part of the circuit. And to twiddle PSU presets without knowing >> just what you are doing is a good way to wipe out the entire set of >> chips >> in the machine. > > > The adjustment pot on the PSU I was referring to is part of the > video adjustment. It's reached from the rear of the machine through a > small hole in the back panel. Changing it's value is actually part of > the video alignment procedure after replacing the video board or > adding the XL screenkit modification. The pots on the video board > itself may also drift and need to be readjusted. This is easily done > by 'eyeballing' the video output as you would with the vertical and > horizontal sync adjustments on another monitor or TV. I once had to > open up a early Panasonic multisync monitor and do this. Everyone else > thought the monitor was bad due to it being totally out of sync. > > Jeff From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Apr 7 16:19:00 2002 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:09 2005 Subject: Lisa 2 Video Problem In-Reply-To: from "Jeff Hellige" at Apr 7, 2 04:55:17 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2703 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20020407/7d6dadb1/attachment.ksh From bill_r at inetnebr.com Sun Apr 7 16:51:48 2002 From: bill_r at inetnebr.com (Bill Richman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:09 2005 Subject: Teleterminal "Fly Reader 232" Switch settings needed Message-ID: Does anyone happen to have the switch settings for a "Teleterminal FlyReader 232" tape reader? The one I have works at 1200-N-8-1, but I'd like to know if I can set it to 9600 so it's the same speed as the other serial stuff I've got hooked up to my IMSAI. -Bill Richman (bill_r@inetnebr.com) Web Page: http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r Home of the COSMAC Elf Microcomputer Simulator, Fun with Molten Metal, Orphaned Robots, and Technological Oddities. From dquebbeman at acm.org Sun Apr 7 16:54:19 2002 From: dquebbeman at acm.org (Douglas H. Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:09 2005 Subject: need the use of a scanner with sheet feeder (near Seattle if possible) Message-ID: <000701c1de7e$c59fe300$e401a8c0@tegjeff.com> > On Sun, Apr 07, 2002 at 10:27:01AM -0400, Douglas H. Quebbeman wrote: > > > > > > Does anyone have one? I have borrowed two large manuals. > > > I'd like to scan them, as opposed to photocopying, but > > > it would have to be quick and reliable (so I can get > > > good results the first time and return the manuals > > > in good shape). > > > > I don't know what Al does, but CDC manuals have "taint", > > a small piece of paper that forms the outside edge of > > that center, long-oval-shaped hole. The taint gets torn > > by sheet feeders... so if you want to return them in the > > same condition as you borrwed them, I'd have to recommend > > against the sheet feeder. > > Hopefully Al will explain his methods soon. Sheet-fed scanner for most stuff, he does use a hand-scanner for bound stuff. Like Eric, I'm pretty sure he does most pages as 600dpi line art. I just got doing the same for a section of a CDC manual that's in hot demand; then used Kodak Imaging to create a multi-page TIF from the individual TIF pages. Then print to PDF using Adobe Acrobat 4.05's PDF Writer. Yields a 367kb PDF, whereas multipage TIF was 2.1MB. > I don't see any taint on mine -- all the holes look the same > shape to me. Can you give example titles? Perhaps they changed > their methods after a certain date. http://members.iglou.com/dougq/cdc/6000front.jpg Should be obvious over on the left, center... -dq -Douglas Hurst Quebbeman (DougQ at ixnayamspayIgLou.com) [Call me "Doug"] Surgically excise the pig-latin from my e-mail address in order to reply "The large print giveth, and the small print taketh away." -Tom Waits From dpeschel at eskimo.com Sun Apr 7 17:21:05 2002 From: dpeschel at eskimo.com (Derek Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:09 2005 Subject: need the use of a scanner with sheet feeder (near Seattle if possible) In-Reply-To: <000701c1de7e$c59fe300$e401a8c0@tegjeff.com>; from dquebbeman@acm.org on Sun, Apr 07, 2002 at 05:54:19PM -0400 References: <000701c1de7e$c59fe300$e401a8c0@tegjeff.com> Message-ID: <20020407152105.A26243@eskimo.eskimo.com> > > I don't see any taint on mine -- all the holes look the same > > shape to me. Can you give example titles? Perhaps they changed > > their methods after a certain date. > > http://members.iglou.com/dougq/cdc/6000front.jpg > > Should be obvious over on the left, center... Mine doesn't have an enlarged hole like that -- as I said, all the holes are the same size. Is there an extra thickness of paper (like those hole reinforcers you can buy) or is the "margin" on the inner edge of the hole just too thin to be sheet-fed? -- Derek From jhellige at earthlink.net Sun Apr 7 21:06:41 2002 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:09 2005 Subject: Pro350 with RT-11 and VR241 + Docs In-Reply-To: <20020407152105.A26243@eskimo.eskimo.com> References: <000701c1de7e$c59fe300$e401a8c0@tegjeff.com> <20020407152105.A26243@eskimo.eskimo.com> Message-ID: For those that might be interested in what looks to be a nice system, there's a Pro350 with RT-11 and the VR241 RGB monitor, plus lots of documentation and disks, on eBay. As always, I have no connection with it...am just passing it on. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2015582243 Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From healyzh at aracnet.com Sun Apr 7 21:29:24 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:09 2005 Subject: Pro350 with RT-11 and VR241 + Docs In-Reply-To: References: <20020407152105.A26243@eskimo.eskimo.com> <000701c1de7e$c59fe300$e401a8c0@tegjeff.com> <20020407152105.A26243@eskimo.eskimo.com> Message-ID: > For those that might be interested in what looks to be a nice >system, there's a Pro350 with RT-11 and the VR241 RGB monitor, plus >lots of documentation and disks, on eBay. As always, I have no >connection with it...am just passing it on. > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2015582243 > > Jeff Sweet! That's a nice system, and a nice pile of doc's! It would be a good system for someone wanting to learn RT-11! I looked up the card numbers, and it doesn't have an ethernet controller. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From dittman at dittman.net Sun Apr 7 21:44:04 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:09 2005 Subject: Pro350 with RT-11 and VR241 + Docs In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at Apr 07, 2002 07:29:24 PM Message-ID: <200204080244.g382i4k15187@narnia.int.dittman.net> > > For those that might be interested in what looks to be a nice > >system, there's a Pro350 with RT-11 and the VR241 RGB monitor, plus > >lots of documentation and disks, on eBay. As always, I have no > >connection with it...am just passing it on. > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2015582243 > > > > Jeff > > Sweet! That's a nice system, and a nice pile of doc's! It would be a good > system for someone wanting to learn RT-11! I looked up the card numbers, > and it doesn't have an ethernet controller. That's the first thing I looked for, too. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From healyzh at aracnet.com Sun Apr 7 22:19:30 2002 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:09 2005 Subject: Pro350 with RT-11 and VR241 + Docs In-Reply-To: <200204080244.g382i4k15187@narnia.int.dittman.net> References: from "Zane H. Healy" at Apr 07, 2002 07:29:24 PM Message-ID: >That's the first thing I looked for, too. Yeah, since I've already got a Pro380 (that I don't even use) and a RT-11 V5.x doc set, an Ethernet controller would have been the only real reason to go for it (though the colour graphics is kind of nice). Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From mcguire at neurotica.com Sun Apr 7 22:34:00 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:09 2005 Subject: Pro350 with RT-11 and VR241 + Docs In-Reply-To: Re: Pro350 with RT-11 and VR241 + Docs (Zane H. Healy) References: Message-ID: <15537.4008.343951.253648@phaduka.neurotica.com> On April 7, Zane H. Healy wrote: > >That's the first thing I looked for, too. > > Yeah, since I've already got a Pro380 (that I don't even use) and a RT-11 > V5.x doc set, an Ethernet controller would have been the only real reason > to go for it (though the colour graphics is kind of nice). What's the resolution of the Pro mono & color framebuffers, does anyone remember? I recall really liking the video...the VR241 wasn't a *great* monitor, but it looked pretty good...and those VR201s were razor sharp! (I could look it up, but laziness is the chain the binds my butt so tightly to the chair...) -Dave -- Dave McGuire "I thought it would go quickly, St. Petersburg, FL that rubberized bottom..." -Sridhar From dittman at dittman.net Sun Apr 7 22:36:57 2002 From: dittman at dittman.net (Eric Dittman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:09 2005 Subject: Pro350 with RT-11 and VR241 + Docs In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at Apr 07, 2002 08:19:30 PM Message-ID: <200204080336.g383av115254@narnia.int.dittman.net> > >That's the first thing I looked for, too. > > Yeah, since I've already got a Pro380 (that I don't even use) and a RT-11 > V5.x doc set, an Ethernet controller would have been the only real reason > to go for it (though the colour graphics is kind of nice). I've already got the color monitor for my Pro380. The only thing I need is the Ethernet controller. I've even got the document set for the Pro350/380. -- Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/ From lgwalker at mts.net Sun Apr 7 07:31:28 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:09 2005 Subject: Fw: Route 128 book In-Reply-To: <00d101c1ddc1$60ad95e0$2177f4d0@dialup> Message-ID: <3CAFE7C0.25750.1E5F37C@localhost> I have a copy of Datamation that is dedicated to route 128 and its IT industries. Unless you already have this source email me. Lawrence > This afternoon, while copying IBM 1620 manuals for Al Kossow's Bitsavers > Project, I met Mr. Alan Earls. He is writing a book on Rt 128, as he > explains below, and is looking for information. I have invited him to > visit both the Rhode Island Computer Museum ( www.osfn.org/ricm ) and > the RetroComputing Society of Rhode Island ( www.osfn.org/rcs ), and > promised to forward his request for information to friends and > colleagues. If you can help the fellow, either directly or by > reference, please contact him. > > Clearly, any tech history writer looking for information on Clevite has > done his homework! > > -----Original Message----- > From: Alan Earls > To: geoff@pkworks.com > Date: Saturday, April 06, 2002 4:48 PM > Subject: RE: Route 128 book > > > Geoff, > > Nice to meet you and chat about "oldies" (Mailboxes, Etc. in Franklin). > As I mentioned I'm finishing up (by May 1) a photo/history book about > Route 128 and environs in Mass. from roughly the end of WW2 until the > early 90s. This isn't a scholarly effort. Rather it is an attempt to > provide a popular book that will capture representative images of the > "dawn" of high tech -- the post war years with the expanded defense > budgets and new electronic technology --- through to the recent past. > > I'm still trying to locate photos of people, places, and things > associated with DG, Prime, Wang and many other companies. I would also > love photos from the Multics project at MIT and some photos of the early > area semiconductor companies: Clevite, Sylvania, Transitron, etc. > > Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. > > Sincerely, > Alan Earls > 508 528 6930 > PLEASE NOTE: Effective immediately, my email address is > alanearls@attbi.com. Please be sure you update your files. Mail > addressed to my "mediaone" address will no longer be delivered after > Mar. 15, 2002. > lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From lgwalker at mts.net Sun Apr 7 07:31:28 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:09 2005 Subject: Doug Yowza? In-Reply-To: References: <3CAEF9D8.7385.2446C@localhost> Message-ID: <3CAFE7C0.31887.1E5F340@localhost> No the later domain was devoted to the" first computer" and had the best exposition I had ever seen. Guess I'll have to go to the cc archives and make my lazy self do a thorough search. Thanks. Lawrence > On Sat, 6 Apr 2002, Lawrence Walker wrote: > > > He put up a good page after he sold the domain. Sellam posted it some > > years back but it has disappeared from my bookmarks. > > It used to be www.yowza.com and featured some tasty babes trying to entice > you to join (it didn't work on me). Now the domain is gone altogether. > > > > On Fri, 5 Apr 2002, Bill Richman wrote: > > > > > > > Anyone know what became of Doug Yowza who used to be on this list? > > > > > > Hey, Bill. He sold yowza.com to a now-defunct porn monger, dropped the > > > Yowza pseudonym, and moved to an island where he still lurks on mailing > > > lists and hoards his precious old computers :-) > > > > > > Cheers, > > > Doug > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > * Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com * > lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From lgwalker at mts.net Sun Apr 7 07:31:28 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:09 2005 Subject: Lisa 2 Video Problem In-Reply-To: <3CB0AF94.7080603@texoma.net> Message-ID: <3CAFE7C0.13550.1E5F3B9@localhost> As a result of my latest GEM searches, apparently it was also ported to the Lisa. Check out Tim Olmsteads GEM page at Gene Buckles' retroarchive. A GUI before Mac. Delicious. Lawrence > I'd appreciate that very much. > > Thanks! > > Jeff Hellige wrote: > > >> Has anyone ever repaired a Lisa 2 with the following symptoms: A > >> distorted video image on the upper 1/3 of the screen? I'm the high > >> bidder on a Lisa 2 on ebay > > > > > > The first thing to do would be to pop the top off of the Lisa and > > check the 4-5 video adjustment dials along the top of the video board, > > as well as the adjustment pot on the PSU. To me it definately looks > > like at the very least the size/position/sync adjustments are out of > > whack. If you get this Lisa, let me know and as soon as I get the two > > CD's back from a local guy I've loaned them to, I'll make you copies > > of them. They have all kinds of PDF's, disk images, and other Lisa > > info on them. > > > > BTW James, what version of Irix are you running on your Indigo2? > > > > Jeff > > > lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From lgwalker at mts.net Sun Apr 7 07:31:28 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:09 2005 Subject: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New" PDP-8)) In-Reply-To: References: <3CAF4714.7A4FC56D@jetnet.ab.ca> Message-ID: <3CAFE7C0.4149.1E5F3EA@localhost> The trick is when you learn to use it one-handedly. Also the drill-pipe slips. The difference between a real roughneck and an oil-rig worker. Lawrence > On Sat, 6 Apr 2002, Ben Franchuk wrote: > > > Doc wrote: > > > > > Should I toss buttress threads in? Or the whole family of oilfield > > > tool joint technology? Those are threaded pipe couplings meant to be > > > torqued to 50,000 ft/lb and more. You oughta see the pipe-wrench.... > > > > > > Doc > > > > I bet you don't drop that pipe-wrench on your foot :) > > Heck, Ben, I can't even pick it *up*! > They weigh ~400lb and are hung on a counter-weighted line. I did let > one run into my hand once on the swing, and carry a one-inch scar to > remember it by. I was way lucky it didn't take my thumb off. > > Doc > lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From lgwalker at mts.net Sun Apr 7 08:02:53 2002 From: lgwalker at mts.net (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:09 2005 Subject: GEM-OS In-Reply-To: <003e01c1ddc4$ea8110a0$0a00a8c0@cvendel> Message-ID: <3CAFEF1D.23714.202B75B@localhost> I love it ! Still giggling. This puts various things into perspective including the Amiga legend. Even the Hasbro sale and Atari demise is related to the precarious monetory origins of the Tramiel fortune. One would have thought he came out of the Commodore thing fairly flush Lawrence > Here's an interesting history tidbit... the Tramiels were so strapped for > cash when they took over Atari, that in order to pay DRI for the work on GEM 68K > for the ST computers.... they paid DRI with the VAX 11/750 located in the Atari > Grass Valley R&D lab which was closed shortly after. I spoke with Ron Milner, > one of the original Atari engineers and he explained how one day Gary Kildall > and crew were in the R&D computer room disconnecting the Vax and was explained > that it was their "payment" for developing a new OS for the Tramiels. > > > Curt > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lawrence Walker" > To: > Sent: Saturday, April 06, 2002 2:36 PM > Subject: Re: GEM-OS > > > > They had a common origin in GEM 1.2. The ST GEM ran on top of TOS. > > The guy who wrote it for DRI (Lee Lorenzen) was one of the Xerox Parc > > people who really developed the GUI as well as mouse usage. Jobs > > glommed his Mac ideas as well as numerous coders from Parc and then > > sued DRI for copying the Mac. He won and DRI was forced to cripple later > > versions and never marketed it very seriously even tho it preceded > Windows. > > For some reason Apple didn't go after the ST or Ventura Publisher which > > used GEM. Lorenzen was one of the founders of Ventura. > > > > Lawrence > > > > > And thusly Curt Vendel spake: > > > > > > > > Don't forget Diamond which is a GEM TOS "look-alike" version designed > for the > > > > Atari 8bits which original came on disk and then came on Super > Cartridge > > > > format. Designed by Reevesoft. > > > > > > > > > > Does the GEM TOS have any relationship to the GEM OS that was available > > > for the PC? (Other then name) > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > Bryan > > > > > > > > > > > > lgwalker@mts.net > > bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com > lgwalker@mts.net bigwalk_ca@yahoo.com From doc at mdrconsult.com Mon Apr 8 00:40:52 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc Shipley) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:09 2005 Subject: Shoddy Hardware (Was: Re: WW fixtures (was Re: "New" PDP-8)) In-Reply-To: <3CAFE7C0.4149.1E5F3EA@localhost> Message-ID: On Sun, 7 Apr 2002, Lawrence Walker wrote: > The trick is when you learn to use it one-handedly. Also the drill-pipe slips. > The difference between a real roughneck and an oil-rig worker. You mean slips got more than one handle? :) That is true fact, though. And the difference between a real roughneck and a "hand" is when you've done it one-handedbecause the other is in a sling.... Slips, BTW, for the more sane list-members, are linked wedges that anchor the top of the drill-string in the drill-floor rotary table, keeping it from falling through. Typically weighing about 175-225lb, you never drop them into place, you throw them. You don't pull them loose when the string is coming up, you jerk them. Mostly two men together, but often by yourself. It was a very _manly_ occupation. The epitome of peer-pressurized behavior. Doc From marvin at rain.org Mon Apr 8 00:56:26 2002 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin Johnston) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:09 2005 Subject: Macintosh Programmer's Workshop References: <200204080336.g383av115254@narnia.int.dittman.net> Message-ID: <3CB1310A.D1C6F419@rain.org> I've got the Macintosh Programmer's Workshop Reference materials, version 3.2, the MPW 3.2 Release notes (2 copies), the SADE Symbolic Application Debugging Environment Update, version 1.3, and the Macintosh Programmer's Workshop Toolbox Interfaces and Libraries disks (5 disks) that I neither want nor need. $6.00 including media USPS delivery. From lists at subatomix.com Mon Apr 8 01:23:54 2002 From: lists at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:09 2005 Subject: Of Mud and Virgins Message-ID: <16980601198.20020408012354@subatomix.com> All right, now that I have your attention, I would like to give a report of my amazing weekend trip to Fort Worth. The most important development of this weekend was my PDP-11 devirginization. Yes, for the year or so that I have been into this hobby, I have rescued or acquired several PDP-11s. Until this weekend, however, I had never applied power to one. Many of these vintage machines are sufficiently different from the PCs I grew up with that learning about them is like rediscovering the computer itself, starting from scratch. There has always been a fear within me of not knowing how to operate one of these machines after applying power to it. Other machines have received no power because I am waiting for my electronics knowledge to develop; these machines will be disassembled, tested part-by-part, and reassembled when that knowledge is sufficient. Despite my inactivity, I have somehow known that I would love exploring these machines once powered. That last prophecy has fulfilled itself! I visited Owen Robertson while in FW, and we powered up his 11/34. He showed me a few things -- how to load RL01 packs, where the power switch was, etc. -- and we proceeded to play with the machine. There are problems with the RSX-11M pack he has, so I loaded up an XXDP+ pack. After printing and reading the help file, I experimented and was able (after some trial and error) to -- drum roll, please -- load UPD2 and create another bootable pack with XXDP+ on it! It would be a minor task for many of you, but it is a major milestone for me. I am now PDP-11 devirginized. Owen and I also scoured a few scrapyards in the DFW area. Highlights of our combined finds: - DEC TS05 - DEC rack spacer panels, rail slides, etc. - DG MPT/100 (looks like a TRS-80 Model III) - DG Nova 3 chassis - Two Sun 4/110 towers. - TRS-80 Model III, diskless, with 16KB RAM (Identical to my first computer except for the extra 12KB :-)) - A Lanier word processor (I believe of the kind Pres. Carter used) - CBM PET 8032 - Three IBM 5150 PCs Eric Dittman was going to accompany us but was called away on business. It's too bad we didn't do this a week sooner. The scrappers had just finished destroying what was a very nice PDP-11/60. I at least found and took the unit numbers from the RK07 and RP0x drive. By the time we were finishing up at the second scrapyard, it was raining heavily and *muddy*. It will be interesting to see what lives through being rained upon. Also, as it turns out, a pallet full of desktop 386 PCs isn't useless after all: you can lay them in puddles and form a walkway to keep yourself dry(er). We referred to the process as 'uninstalling Windows'. -- Jeffrey Sharp The email address lists@subatomix.com is for mailing list traffic. Please send off-list mail to roach jay ess ess at wasp subatomix beetle dot com. You may need to remove some bugs first. From mcguire at neurotica.com Mon Apr 8 01:38:22 2002 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:09 2005 Subject: Of Mud and Virgins In-Reply-To: Of Mud and Virgins (Jeffrey Sharp) References: <16980601198.20020408012354@subatomix.com> Message-ID: <15537.15070.922259.87275@phaduka.neurotica.com> On April 8, Jeffrey Sharp wrote: > That last prophecy has fulfilled itself! I visited Owen Robertson while in > FW, and we powered up his 11/34. He showed me a few things -- how to load > RL01 packs, where the power switch was, etc. -- and we proceeded to play > with the machine. There are problems with the RSX-11M pack he has, so I > loaded up an XXDP+ pack. After printing and reading the help file, I > experimented and was able (after some trial and error) to -- drum roll, > please -- load UPD2 and create another bootable pack with XXDP+ on it! Kick ass!! :-) > It's too bad we didn't do this a week sooner. The scrappers had just > finished destroying what was a very nice PDP-11/60. I at least found and > took the unit numbers from the RK07 and RP0x drive. I weep for the PDP-11/60. I take it you "educated" said scrappers, and left them your number? -Dave -- Dave McGuire "I thought it would go quickly, St. Petersburg, FL that rubberized bottom..." -Sridhar From doc at mdrconsult.com Mon Apr 8 01:50:33 2002 From: doc at mdrconsult.com (Doc) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:09 2005 Subject: GEM-OS and Stuff In-Reply-To: <3CAFEF1D.23714.202B75B@localhost> Message-ID: OK. This thread has been causing a tickle in the back of my head for days. I finally went digging in my old came-with-what-I-wanted-at- auction boxes, and I have two unrelated sets of GEM stuff. 1 box 5.25 floppies: Sleeves labelled "AMSTRAD PC System Discs", colored disks labelled: (red) DISC [sic] 1, MICROSOFT MSDOS OPERATING SYSTEM STARTUP & UTILIIES v3.2 (blue) DISC 2, GEM STARTUP v2.0U. (green) DISC 3, GEM DESKTOP v2.0U. /Locomotive BASIC 2 v1.0 (yellow) DISC 4, DOS Plus STARTUP & Utilities v1.2/GEM PAINT v1.0U Other: Bad Dudes IBM-Program Disk Bad Dudes IBM-Data Disk Read 'n Roll Program and Data For IBM and Compatibles Read 'n Roll Stories level 1-2-3-4 For IBM and Compatibles Talking Word Attack Plus! Program and Data Disk for IBM, Tandy and Compatibles Talking Word Attack Plus! Speech Disk for IBM, Tandy and Compatibles MATH BLASTER PLUS! Program and Data for IBM and Compatibles MATH BLASTER MYSTERY Program Disk For IBM, Tandy and Compatibles MATH BLASTER MYSTERY Data Disk For IBM, Tandy and Compatibles WHERE IN THE U.S.A. IS CARMEN SANDIEGO? DISK 1 WHERE IN THE U.S.A. IS CARMEN SANDIEGO? DISK 2 And, in the shrinkwrap, a package of 5.25" disks, a book titled GEM Artline by CCP, and a smaller book titled GEM/3 Desktop User's Guide. There's a small paper label on the package that says DAK # (70230) 5.25" GEM/3/ARTLINE/HIJAAK HD The logo on the books is Digital Research but the EULA on the software envelope is from DAK Industries Inc. Unfortunately, I don't have a PC set up to try all this out. I think I got the 2 sets in different auctions at different places, but I know I've had them since before I was seriously collecting. They were useless junk when I got them. Heh. For all I really know, they still are. Doc From borisg at unixg.ubc.ca Mon Apr 8 02:19:25 2002 From: borisg at unixg.ubc.ca (Boris Gimbarzevsky) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:09 2005 Subject: Ancient Ampex core memory board Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020407231925.007bd210@pop.unixg.ubc.ca> Hi: During a search I did tonight trying to locate info on a core-memory module, I kept running into references to this list, so I thought I'd joing. I've been going through some of my ancient electronics stuff and just came across a 42*100 bit Ampex core memory module. This module has P/N 3255780-01 S/N FA 2655 04570061. It consists of 2 boards fastened together with screws and spacers with the core plane sitting on the lower board under a plexiglass cover. It appears to be made up of 2 separate core planes of 42*50 bits. The board is 5.5 * 5.5 inches by 9/16" deep. The edge connectors are broken off, for their gold plating I suspect. I have a faint memory of picking up this board around 1976 in a computer surplus store. I've separated it into two boards (connections between the two boards are made by 12 wires soldered to the boards) and scanned it and these jpegs are available if anyone needs them to help out. I was wondering if anyone had any information of where I can find more information about this core-memory module. I haven't been able to find out anything about the IC's which populate this board (TI AAAL4 and Fairchild AAVA1) and even info on what these IC's are would be usefull as the board appears to be a simple 2 layer circuit board with very wide (compared to modern boards) traces that are trivial to convert to a schematic by using the scans of the two sides of each board. It would be neat to get this board up and running someday, and hopefully someone on this list has the info. Regards, Boris Gimbarzevsky From Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com Mon Apr 8 05:20:21 2002 From: Andreas.Freiherr at Vishay.com (Andreas Freiherr) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:05:09 2005 Subject: BA23 vs. BA123 vs. 42" cabinet? References: Message-ID: <3CB16EE5.AFE47D9C@Vishay.com> Doc wrote: > > On Sat, 6 Apr 2002, Andreas Freiherr wrote: > > Looks OK. However, you should be able to omit the DMV11 if you don't > > actually want to use it: the DEQNA and DELQA are dual-width modules, so > > each of them will nicely fit into the A/B alots without touching the C/D > > interconnect. > > I know you can run dual-heght boards in the A/B slots, but what about > cooling? My MV-II has a couple of black plastic dummies in the C/D side > that I assumed are for airflow direction. If those aren't strictly > needed, that would simplify things somewhat. I have seen a number of MicroVAXen with dual-height modules, but without those dummies, and I have seen all of them still running after years, so